25/05/2017

:00:08. > :00:12.Hello it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:13. > :00:15.in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.

:00:16. > :00:18.Police investigating the Manchester Arena bomb attack

:00:19. > :00:21.have stopped sharing information with US officials after leaks

:00:22. > :00:27.UK investigators were outraged when photos appearing to show debris

:00:28. > :00:29.from the attack appeared in the latest edition

:00:30. > :00:33.How will this impact the investigation and wider

:00:34. > :00:36.intelligence sharing between the UK and US?

:00:37. > :00:39.And as more victims of the attack are named the mother

:00:40. > :00:45.of Olivia Cambpell gave an emotional speech at a vigil in Bury.

:00:46. > :00:48.Please stay together, don't let this beat any of us.

:00:49. > :00:51.Please, don't let my daughter be a victim.

:00:52. > :00:59.The Home Secretary has said that the Prevent anti-terror

:01:00. > :01:01.programme needs boosting following the bombing,

:01:02. > :01:03.which was carried out by a young British man.

:01:04. > :01:05.But the strategy has been the subject of fierce criticism

:01:06. > :01:08.from those who say it creates a them and us divide between Muslims

:01:09. > :01:16.We talk to people on both sides of the debate.

:01:17. > :01:19.The bombing has caused upset right across the country,

:01:20. > :01:21.but how do those who have to investigate it and deal

:01:22. > :01:27.Chief Superintendent John Sutherland spent years on the front line

:01:28. > :01:31.of policing and will be talking about the toll dealing

:01:32. > :01:49.Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.00 this morning.

:01:50. > :02:00.Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning,

:02:01. > :02:07.General election campaigning resumes today and Ukip will be launching

:02:08. > :02:16.their manifesto. We will be looking at that later in the programme.

:02:17. > :02:19.BBC News has been told that the police have stopped sharing

:02:20. > :02:20.information about the Manchester bombing with officials

:02:21. > :02:23.in the United States, following a series of leaks thought

:02:24. > :02:25.to have come from the American intelligence community.

:02:26. > :02:27.Last night, the New York Times published photographs apparently

:02:28. > :02:30.showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to conceal it.

:02:31. > :02:36.Our correspondent Catrina Renton is in Manchester for us.

:02:37. > :02:43.This is a significant developments, what can you tell us? We understand

:02:44. > :02:47.Greater Manchester Police are furious about those photographs that

:02:48. > :02:56.have been published apparently of the debris. The American media, the

:02:57. > :03:00.name of Salman Abedi was leaked to the American media just 24 hours

:03:01. > :03:04.after the attack and that irritated the investigation here also. But

:03:05. > :03:09.this publication of the photographs, sensitive and confidential

:03:10. > :03:14.information relates of course to the investigation, has led to them

:03:15. > :03:18.ceasing sharing information from here with the Americans. Greater

:03:19. > :03:25.Manchester Police have said they hope to resume the normal

:03:26. > :03:29.intelligence relationship soon. But this is an extraordinary and

:03:30. > :03:35.unprecedented move to stop the two-way relationship between America

:03:36. > :03:39.and the UK. Apparently it has caused disbelief and astonishment across

:03:40. > :03:44.the British government. Theresa May is expected to raise this with

:03:45. > :03:50.Donald Trump later today at the Nato meeting in Brussels. There's is a

:03:51. > :03:56.very fast-moving investigation. Eight people now in custody in

:03:57. > :03:59.relation with this investigation. Nine arrests have been made, eight

:04:00. > :04:05.in the Greater Manchester area, one in Warwickshire. One of those

:04:06. > :04:10.arrested yesterday evening, a woman, has now been released. But eight

:04:11. > :04:15.people remain in custody. There have been a series of raids and

:04:16. > :04:19.controlled explosions to try to home in on this network to which Salman

:04:20. > :04:25.Abedi appears to have been connected. His older brother is

:04:26. > :04:29.still in custody. Also, the more leads this investigation gets, the

:04:30. > :04:33.more work it creates for police officers here. So this is an

:04:34. > :04:38.expanding investigation at the moment, rather than it appearing to

:04:39. > :04:43.be more focused. Much more work for police officers and they will be

:04:44. > :04:47.feeling absolute frustration at the leaking of those very sensitive

:04:48. > :04:54.pictures that show the debris of the attack. Or are reported to show the

:04:55. > :04:59.debris after the attack. Another thing of course, at 11 o'clock, a

:05:00. > :05:02.minute's silence will be observed and we expect the Chief Constable of

:05:03. > :05:05.Greater Manchester Police to come here to mark that, to show

:05:06. > :05:12.solidarity with the people of Manchester. Thank you very much. We

:05:13. > :05:14.will of course have coverage of the one minute's silence live at 11

:05:15. > :05:17.o'clock. Now time for a summary

:05:18. > :05:20.from the BBC Newsroom. Theresa May is to raise concerns

:05:21. > :05:23.with Donald Trump after evidence from the Manchester Arena bombing

:05:24. > :05:26.was apparently leaked to US media. UK officials were "furious"

:05:27. > :05:31.when photos appearing to show debris from the attack appeared

:05:32. > :05:34.in the New York Times. The Prime Minister is expected

:05:35. > :05:38.to raise the issue of the leak with the US president when they meet

:05:39. > :05:42.at a Nato summit later. Two more men have been

:05:43. > :05:43.arrested in connection One was detained following searches

:05:44. > :05:49.of an address in the Withington area of the city, while another

:05:50. > :05:52.was arrested in a part of Greater Manchester

:05:53. > :05:53.that was not disclosed. The new arrests bring

:05:54. > :05:55.the total number of people The suspect's older brother is among

:05:56. > :06:01.those in custody in Manchester. Two other members of his family have

:06:02. > :06:18.have been detained in Libya. Monday's terror attack claim 22

:06:19. > :06:22.victims. So far, 16 have been identified but police say they know

:06:23. > :06:26.the names of all those killed. The latest are 17-year-old Chloe

:06:27. > :06:28.Rutherford and her boyfriend Liam Curry, aged 19, both from South

:06:29. > :06:33.Shields. Lisa Lees and Alison Howe had

:06:34. > :06:35.gone to collect their In Royton in Oldham,

:06:36. > :06:44.devastated friends have She was just the best

:06:45. > :06:49.one out of us all. She was very selfless,

:06:50. > :06:56.did everything for us. Everyone in Royton who knows

:06:57. > :06:58.us, knows all of us. The loss of Alison,

:06:59. > :07:04.without a shadow of the doubt, Since Monday's attack,

:07:05. > :07:11.more names and photographs of the victims have been released,

:07:12. > :07:14.heartbreaking stories of lives lost. Kelly Brewster was 32

:07:15. > :07:19.and from Sheffield. She died shielding and saving her

:07:20. > :07:25.11-year-old niece from the blast. Saffie Roussos was eight, quiet,

:07:26. > :07:28.unassuming, with a creative flair according to her head teacher

:07:29. > :07:34.at Tarleton Community Primary Saffie comes from a close,

:07:35. > :07:38.loving family, and we can only He's seen here speaking

:07:39. > :07:57.to the BBC in 2015. He was described as wonderful,

:07:58. > :07:59.iconic and beautiful. His brother said his

:08:00. > :08:01.family was heartbroken. Georgina Callander had been a fan

:08:02. > :08:04.of Ariana Grande for years, She was 18 and studying

:08:05. > :08:07.health and social care, planning a career committed

:08:08. > :08:09.to helping others. John Atkinson from Bury

:08:10. > :08:11.was 28, and also studied Friends described him

:08:12. > :08:14.as one in a million, Michelle Kiss was married

:08:15. > :08:24.with three young children. In a statement, her family said

:08:25. > :08:26.they were devastated. They said they hoped to draw

:08:27. > :08:30.from the courage and strength she showed in her life to get

:08:31. > :08:32.through this extremely As a family, we're united,

:08:33. > :08:38.we're standing strong. I ask her friends, strangers,

:08:39. > :08:43.relatives, to do the same. Please, don't let my

:08:44. > :08:54.daughter be a victim. Just some of the innocent lives,

:08:55. > :09:12.cruelly ended so suddenly. Withers is on North of England

:09:13. > :09:18.reporter, Fiona Trott. You are at one of the hospitals treating those

:09:19. > :09:23.who were injured. Bring us up-to-date on how those people are

:09:24. > :09:30.doing? We know 64 people are still being treated in hospital. 20 are in

:09:31. > :09:36.a critical condition. Nine people are being treated at Manchester

:09:37. > :09:40.Royal Infirmary. But we know that 12 casualties, under the age of 16 at

:09:41. > :09:46.Manchester Children's Hospital Maxtor. As we heard from Tim,

:09:47. > :09:52.families have been confirmed that more people have died in the

:09:53. > :09:55.attacks. 17 have now been named, Chloe Rutherford who was 17 and her

:09:56. > :10:04.boyfriend Liam Curry and 19 from South Shields. An inseparable young

:10:05. > :10:09.couple. Their family launched a social media campaign to help find

:10:10. > :10:16.them. They wanted to be together for ever and now they are, their family

:10:17. > :10:21.said. Eileen McLeod, from Scotland. The family is devastated and words

:10:22. > :10:24.cannot express how they feel. We have learned about more parents who

:10:25. > :10:29.lost their lives who were waiting for their children after the

:10:30. > :10:33.concert. One of them was on duty female police officer. She has not

:10:34. > :10:37.yet been named and her husband is critically ill and their two

:10:38. > :10:43.children are also injured. We are due to get an update from the trust

:10:44. > :10:45.later this morning. Fiona Trott, thank you very much.

:10:46. > :10:47.Ariana Grande's concerts at London's O2 Arena on Thursday

:10:48. > :10:49.and Friday have been cancelled following the Manchester

:10:50. > :10:54.A statement said the US singer's Dangerous Woman tour would be

:10:55. > :11:02.It added that Grande, 23, wanted to pay "proper

:11:03. > :11:07."Our way of life has once again been threatened

:11:08. > :11:20.Manchester United have dedicated their victory in last night's Europa

:11:21. > :11:24.League final to the victims of the attack. Thousands of fans travelled

:11:25. > :11:25.to Stockholm to watch the match, which was an emotional affair, on

:11:26. > :11:27.and off the pitch. This is what's happened,

:11:28. > :11:31.over there, we've come and given this performance,

:11:32. > :11:33.this is for Manchester. Everybody in Manchester,

:11:34. > :11:35.this is for us. It was very emotional because of

:11:36. > :11:37.what happened in Manchester. It was showing people how

:11:38. > :11:39.we are still united. A very emotional night,

:11:40. > :11:41.to be honest with you. It shows that we can come together

:11:42. > :11:49.as a city and a nation and show our spirit,

:11:50. > :12:02.that we'll not be beaten like that. In other news, the Ukip

:12:03. > :12:04.leader, Paul Nuttall, will unveil his party's manifesto

:12:05. > :12:07.today, marking a return to campaigning

:12:08. > :12:09.for the general election. Mr Nuttall said further delay

:12:10. > :12:11.would let the terrorists win. He said Ukip will, in his words,

:12:12. > :12:14.'identify the problem' in communities in a way that other

:12:15. > :12:17.parties are unwilling to do. All the other parties

:12:18. > :12:19.are resuming their national campaigns tomorrow -

:12:20. > :12:23.but some local activities such as delivering leaflets

:12:24. > :12:25.will begin again today. With us now is our Assistant

:12:26. > :12:44.Political Editor Norman Smith What do expect from Ukip today. It

:12:45. > :12:50.is a big day to pull fairly serious nosedive. Paul Nuttall will try to

:12:51. > :12:55.answer questions by setting out the post Brexit agenda. He will try to

:12:56. > :12:59.present Ukip as a proud, patriotically, willing to confront

:13:00. > :13:06.issues he says of the parties will not face up to. Around immigration

:13:07. > :13:08.and integration. We know on the integration agenda date are

:13:09. > :13:14.suggesting policies like banning the burqa, ending the role of sharia

:13:15. > :13:21.courts, putting a halt to further Islamic State schools being built.

:13:22. > :13:24.And on immigration, a tougher line, suggesting there should be zero net

:13:25. > :13:30.immigration into this country and a complete ban on all non-skills,

:13:31. > :13:34.unskilled workers coming in. The question is, whether any of that

:13:35. > :13:38.will be sufficient to win back those voters who appeared to be deserting

:13:39. > :13:44.the party in droves, because they seem to be banking now on Theresa

:13:45. > :13:53.May to deliver Brexit. Norman, thank you.

:13:54. > :13:56.Researchers have warned that Conservative plans to offer every

:13:57. > :13:59.primary school child in England a free breakfast could cost three

:14:00. > :14:02.times more than the ?60 million the party has estimated.

:14:03. > :14:04.Independent experts from Education Datalab say the Tory

:14:05. > :14:07.figure is based on a scheme with a low take-up rate,

:14:08. > :14:09.where food was donated and no staffing costs were included.

:14:10. > :14:15.The Conservatives are standing by their estimate.

:14:16. > :14:18.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

:14:19. > :14:20.In a moment we will be finding out more about the decision

:14:21. > :14:23.by Greater Manchester Police to stop sharing intelligence with US

:14:24. > :14:32.officials and what the likely impact of that decision will be.

:14:33. > :14:37.It is unprecedented, so we will be talking much more about that.

:14:38. > :14:39.First let's get some sport with Holly Hamilton.

:14:40. > :14:40.Holly, an emotional night for Manchester United

:14:41. > :14:44.but they still managed to win the Europa League.

:14:45. > :14:54.It was always going to be an emotional event, given what happened

:14:55. > :15:08.this week. The players walked onto the pitch with black bands. And

:15:09. > :15:16.minute's silence in the ground. Then Paul Pogba scored in the 18th

:15:17. > :15:22.minute. And then this... You can see what this means to the players and

:15:23. > :15:29.the Jose Mourinho. It makes them the most decorated club in Europe and

:15:30. > :15:35.Jose Mourinho made a managerial history. You could see him running

:15:36. > :15:39.onto the pitch and celebrating. Afterwards he said the team had been

:15:40. > :15:51.deeply affected by the events in Manchester this week. We just come

:15:52. > :15:57.to do our job. We had the happiness we should bring with us. When you go

:15:58. > :16:03.to these big matches, you go proud. We didn't, we just come to do our

:16:04. > :16:08.job. The boys were fantastic because they block, they put a wall in front

:16:09. > :16:15.of their eyes and they stay isolated from everything and we focused on

:16:16. > :16:21.the match. Which we played really well. This puts Manchester United

:16:22. > :16:24.back where they want to be, back in the Champions League. But perhaps

:16:25. > :16:30.last night was not just about football, of course. How weather

:16:31. > :16:33.fans reacting? You could tell the fans were subdued at the beginning

:16:34. > :16:37.of the night. They weren't sure whether or not they were supposed to

:16:38. > :16:42.be cheering and celebrating. Obviously given the events this

:16:43. > :16:46.week. We have the Ajax fans who were singing. Manchester United fans

:16:47. > :16:50.sitting down, not sure what they were supposed to be doing. It was

:16:51. > :16:54.only when the match began and the players arrived and the minute's

:16:55. > :17:00.silence the place but the fans started to come alive. The banner

:17:01. > :17:04.branded with those words, Manchester, a city United, summed up

:17:05. > :17:09.how those fans are feeling. It brought everyone together. Those

:17:10. > :17:12.were incredible scenes and then a tweet from Manchester City,

:17:13. > :17:16.obviously coming from Manchester, you will know people are in two

:17:17. > :17:28.camps, and this was a night when both teams came together, which was

:17:29. > :17:31.summarised by that tweet last night. This is a situation where football

:17:32. > :17:35.can bring people together. That banner that was in the crowd last

:17:36. > :17:39.night really summed up how people felt. There was just a perfect

:17:40. > :17:46.example of a city, and how football really can bring people together in

:17:47. > :17:49.a situation like this. Thank you very much, Holly.

:17:50. > :17:51.Police investigating the Manchester Arena bomb attack

:17:52. > :17:53.have stopped sharing information with US officials, after leaks

:17:54. > :18:01.UK investigators were outraged when photos appearing to show debris

:18:02. > :18:03.from the attack appeared in the latest edition

:18:04. > :18:11.Our security correspondent Frank Gardner's here,

:18:12. > :18:14.also Lee Doddridge, former officer at the National Counter Terrorism

:18:15. > :18:26.And we are joined by Ben Owen, a former MI5 officer in Manchester.

:18:27. > :18:32.Frank, is this completely unprecedented? No, it's not. The US

:18:33. > :18:37.beltway around Washington is notoriously leaky, and likewise in

:18:38. > :18:40.New York. It is always far easier to get wood should be closely held

:18:41. > :18:43.sometimes almost classified information out of the US than it is

:18:44. > :18:48.out of the UK, so the security is much better actually in London, in

:18:49. > :18:53.Whitehall. And it's frustrating, because as a journalist, I will have

:18:54. > :18:56.editors and the past saying why aren't you getting this stuff?

:18:57. > :19:00.Because the US is leaky. In this particular case this is actually

:19:01. > :19:05.really dangerous. This is an ongoing operation. Let's not beat around the

:19:06. > :19:13.bush, they are hunting for a bomb factory, for a guy who has possibly

:19:14. > :19:16.produced more devices like the one that was used in Manchester. They

:19:17. > :19:19.are in a race against time to find that. The last thing they want is

:19:20. > :19:26.the namely doubt so that people can be warned -- is the name leaked out

:19:27. > :19:30.so that people can be warned and possibly scape. Now the whole

:19:31. > :19:36.methodology has been laid out there and it is incredibly this respectful

:19:37. > :19:43.to the families of the victims. Lee Doddridge, what impact did you think

:19:44. > :19:46.this leak will have? For one, it is an unwanted distraction from the

:19:47. > :19:49.enquiry. We need to be focused on who produced the result of their is

:19:50. > :19:52.any more out there. We don't want the distraction of having these

:19:53. > :19:56.issues with our American counterparts. When we share

:19:57. > :20:00.intelligence through the five eyes network, we are the originators and

:20:01. > :20:04.owners of that intelligence and it is their to help them, not for them

:20:05. > :20:08.to abuse and disseminate from there. As Frank quite rightly said, it is a

:20:09. > :20:14.very leaky system in America and I think it is the right decision to

:20:15. > :20:18.stop any sharing of intelligence. Ben Owen, who gets to make the call

:20:19. > :20:23.on what intelligence is shared, because it sounds like this decision

:20:24. > :20:27.has come directly from Greater Manchester Police? You might think a

:20:28. > :20:31.decision would be made at a higher level. It is eyes looked at on a

:20:32. > :20:36.case-by-case basis, but if the intelligence is key to an

:20:37. > :20:40.investigation -- it has always looked on, that keeps citizens of

:20:41. > :20:46.the five eyes community and are sometimes wider safe, that

:20:47. > :20:51.information will be shared. I can think in 2006, the airline plot,

:20:52. > :20:56.operation overt, which was the investigation into trying to thwart

:20:57. > :21:00.the net of East London networking blowing up aircraft. This was a

:21:01. > :21:05.British investigation. We were sharing lots and lots of key

:21:06. > :21:13.information with the American intelligence agencies. They wanted

:21:14. > :21:17.to finish this investigation, arrest everyone, because it was over US

:21:18. > :21:20.airspace where the attack was planned for. The British

:21:21. > :21:25.intelligence services to not want to, they wanted to insure we rounded

:21:26. > :21:28.everyone up, make sure we did not miss any individual in this key

:21:29. > :21:31.network, which could have been broader. They took it upon

:21:32. > :21:37.themselves to arrest them overseas, which forced the British law

:21:38. > :21:40.enforcement services into arresting this network early, the risk being

:21:41. > :21:48.that we didn't identify every key individual. Lee Doddridge, what

:21:49. > :21:52.would the USB of sharing the information of what has been

:21:53. > :21:59.happening in Manchester with the US security services? That is a very

:22:00. > :22:02.good question because there is obviously pertinent parts of the

:22:03. > :22:06.investigation they would want to share. If we are trying to establish

:22:07. > :22:10.if there is a wider network, by sharing certain parts of

:22:11. > :22:13.information, it may well link into what the US authorities already

:22:14. > :22:17.have. When we look at all makers, when they put devices together, it

:22:18. > :22:22.is almost like they leave their own individual fingerprint on it, they

:22:23. > :22:26.all have their own quirky ways of designing and using certain

:22:27. > :22:28.materials. So by sharing the intelligence they may well feedback

:22:29. > :22:33.to us and say we have found a similar device, baby at another

:22:34. > :22:37.crime scene in Syria, so we share that. It widens and greatly enhances

:22:38. > :22:43.our chance of finding more information. Frank. Donald Trump is

:22:44. > :22:48.in Brussels, we can see pictures of him attending a Nato meeting today.

:22:49. > :22:51.The government has made clear, Theresa May will be having a

:22:52. > :22:54.conversation with Donald Trump. The indications are that this leak

:22:55. > :22:59.hasn't come from the White House, though, it has come from US

:23:00. > :23:02.intelligence sources. That's correct, the White House is

:23:03. > :23:08.effectively travelling with Donald Trump, they are with him, in a

:23:09. > :23:10.suitcase, as it were. This has come from the enormous

:23:11. > :23:15.multibillion-dollar US intelligence community, and they have 16

:23:16. > :23:20.different agencies. Homeland security, DIA, CIA, FBI, you name

:23:21. > :23:24.it. It could be any one of those agencies that has leaked this. You

:23:25. > :23:31.said they are leaky, why, what with the incentive be in leaking these?

:23:32. > :23:35.These are powers, they have pals in the media, there is something called

:23:36. > :23:39.the Bay -- the beltway that goes around Washington, people come out

:23:40. > :23:45.and have dinner with each other and they are not as cautious as

:23:46. > :23:49.officials are in the UK. There is a whole community of part-time spooks

:23:50. > :23:52.or intelligence people in the States who are on contract to perhaps

:23:53. > :23:55.finish their careers but stay on on contract, and they talk to

:23:56. > :24:00.journalists more than people do over here. The reason quite apart from

:24:01. > :24:04.the present moment that this particular manhunt, bomb hunt, the

:24:05. > :24:10.reason why this is really kind of risky is that this is going down a

:24:11. > :24:13.slippery slope. Because if Greater Manchester Police is understandably

:24:14. > :24:16.saying we don't trust you any more, because we give you intelligence and

:24:17. > :24:22.you go and splash it all over the media, then the US is quite likely

:24:23. > :24:27.to do the same, or they could do the same. And Britain needs American

:24:28. > :24:30.intelligence, not on this particular investigation but the next one

:24:31. > :24:33.coming down the line. To be fair, has it happened in the other

:24:34. > :24:40.direction, has there been a leak here? Yes, there have been. Whether

:24:41. > :24:42.US intelligence communities expressed their extreme displeasure

:24:43. > :24:46.that something has got out into the media that they have shared. Like I

:24:47. > :24:51.remember what it was but there was something a few years back. So it

:24:52. > :24:54.works both ways. Remember, US intelligence gathering capacity is

:24:55. > :25:00.many times bigger than any other country in the world, including the

:25:01. > :25:03.UK. The NSA for a start, national security agency, has petabytes of

:25:04. > :25:09.capability to hoover up stuff that Britain couldn't match. Ben Owen, so

:25:10. > :25:15.how to fix this issue of leaky nurse, because it is clearly

:25:16. > :25:20.critical it is fixed. Yes, it is critical, as is the threat state at

:25:21. > :25:24.the moment. We really need to go back to the drawing board with this,

:25:25. > :25:28.this is happening all too often. As Frank says, it works both ways as

:25:29. > :25:32.well, so we both need to get better at this. What we can't continue

:25:33. > :25:37.doing with the threat we all face today, at UK and US and broader, we

:25:38. > :25:43.cannot continue doing this. This information was critical to keep

:25:44. > :25:45.sensitive, in the network investigation to identify key

:25:46. > :25:49.individuals. It cannot continue. We need to go back to the drawing board

:25:50. > :25:53.and have some very frank conversations across the pond, and

:25:54. > :25:57.try and get this fixed as soon as possible. Lee Doddridge, what do you

:25:58. > :26:03.think the wider impact of all this could be? I think it could be very

:26:04. > :26:10.wired, if we don't get a hold on the situation quite quickly. As everyone

:26:11. > :26:13.has said, we need a review on how we share the intelligence, but also how

:26:14. > :26:17.we secure the intelligence once it has been shared. For a number of

:26:18. > :26:21.years it has taken on trust as well, but we do have caveats, and we need

:26:22. > :26:27.to go back to the drawing board, and look at how we can move forward from

:26:28. > :26:29.this. And we will have other investigations, unfortunately that

:26:30. > :26:32.is just the case. We need to make sure that when we do share

:26:33. > :26:38.intelligence, we have to keep doing that, that there are more controls

:26:39. > :26:48.around it. Ben, earlier in the week, we heard initially actually from

:26:49. > :26:51.France about some of the Abedi movements, the revelation that he

:26:52. > :26:58.had been travelling to Syria. That is an indication of where and how

:26:59. > :27:05.the intelligence sharing is valuable and the impact it can have.

:27:06. > :27:10.Absolutely correct. The intelligence sharing that the US and the UK have

:27:11. > :27:15.is crucial, we can't cut it off, that would be devastating for the

:27:16. > :27:21.UK, for our interests. We have to keep that flow of intelligence

:27:22. > :27:26.going. It is absolutely key. Syria, Libya and elsewhere, a lot of the

:27:27. > :27:29.volume of that will come from CIA and NSA. So we need to keep this

:27:30. > :27:34.going. We need to be honest with ourselves, and agree and accept that

:27:35. > :27:41.the continuation of intelligence sharing has to continue. But as Lee

:27:42. > :27:44.said, we need to progress -- look at how we share that information and

:27:45. > :27:51.secure it when it is shared. That is the key, not the broader

:27:52. > :27:54.intelligence sharing scenario. For now, Greater Manchester Police

:27:55. > :27:57.saying they won't share, how do you envisage that proceeding from here?

:27:58. > :28:02.Will all the information just be kept within the force? I think that

:28:03. > :28:08.maybe today the way Manchester police want to move forward, but I

:28:09. > :28:12.think also then the wider agencies, intelligence services within the UK,

:28:13. > :28:14.will probably assist Greater Manchester, physically hold too much

:28:15. > :28:20.back it could hinder the enquiry itself. So maybe the snap decision

:28:21. > :28:23.to do that, but we need to look at it and need to get these channels

:28:24. > :28:27.open as soon as possible because there may well be a piece of

:28:28. > :28:32.intelligence that the US has too unable that we have everyone here in

:28:33. > :28:36.the UK accounted for. Credit already have damaged the investigation? I

:28:37. > :28:41.don't want to speculate at the moment. We won't know until the

:28:42. > :28:45.enquiry moves forward. Thank you very much, Lee Doddridge, Ben Owen

:28:46. > :28:50.and Frank Gardner in the studio, and we will be talking to you again

:28:51. > :28:55.Frank, about Abedi and his background. A lot more information

:28:56. > :29:02.coming on about him and his wider contacts. Also coming up, we will be

:29:03. > :29:05.examining the government's Prevent anti-terrorism programme yet again

:29:06. > :29:10.under scrutiny. Is it working, does it need beefing up or do we need a

:29:11. > :29:14.drastic rethink? Let us the thoughts on that. Also a big night for the

:29:15. > :29:19.club at an even bigger nights of the city. That is what's David Beckham

:29:20. > :29:22.had to say about Manchester United's victory in the route the league last

:29:23. > :29:26.night. We will talk to one fan who was there.

:29:27. > :29:37.Now to Anita for a summary from the BBC Newsroom.

:29:38. > :29:46.BBC News has been told that the UK has stopped sharing information with

:29:47. > :29:49.the United States. Last night the New York Times published photographs

:29:50. > :29:53.apparently showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to

:29:54. > :29:57.conceal it. Greater Manchester Police hope to resume normal

:29:58. > :30:02.intelligence sharing relationship soon.

:30:03. > :30:09.Theresa May is to raise concerns with Donald Trump after the evidence

:30:10. > :30:14.from the Manchester bombing was leaked to the US media. President

:30:15. > :30:18.Trump is in Nato today where he has been meeting Donald Tusk. The Prime

:30:19. > :30:21.Minister is expected to raise the issue with him at the summit later.

:30:22. > :30:22.Meanwhile... Two more men have been

:30:23. > :30:24.arrested in connection One was detained following searches

:30:25. > :30:29.of an address in the Withington area of the city, while another

:30:30. > :30:31.was arrested in a part of Greater Manchester

:30:32. > :30:33.that was not disclosed. The new arrests bring

:30:34. > :30:35.the total number of people The suspect's older brother is among

:30:36. > :30:39.those in custody in Manchester. Two other members of his family have

:30:40. > :30:42.have been detained in Libya. Ariana Grande's concerts

:30:43. > :30:47.at London's O2 Arena on Thursday and Friday have been cancelled

:30:48. > :30:50.following the Manchester A statement said the US singer's

:30:51. > :30:55.Dangerous Woman tour would be It added that Grande

:30:56. > :31:04.wanted to pay "proper "Our way of life has once

:31:05. > :31:08.again been threatened Manchester United have

:31:09. > :31:12.dedicated their victory in last night's Europa League final

:31:13. > :31:14.to the victims of the Thousands of fans travelled

:31:15. > :31:18.to Stockholm to watch the match, which was an emotional affair,

:31:19. > :31:27.on and off the pitch. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:31:28. > :31:38.News - more at 10.00 Now let's join Holly for the sport.

:31:39. > :31:46.Manchester United beat Ajax 2-0 to win the final of the Europa League.

:31:47. > :31:50.It was enough Jose Mourinho's side as they ensure their qualification

:31:51. > :31:54.for the Champions League. Manchester was a city United last night. Fans

:31:55. > :31:59.came together to offer support for the families who lost loved ones in

:32:00. > :32:03.the atrocity at the Manchester Arena on Monday evening. England's

:32:04. > :32:07.cricketers have begun their preparation for the ICC Trophy with

:32:08. > :32:14.victory over South Africa at Headingley in the first of 31-day

:32:15. > :32:18.matches. Jenson Button says he is the luckiest guy to be back in

:32:19. > :32:23.Formula 1 for the Monaco Grand Prix. The former world champion replaces

:32:24. > :32:25.Fernando Alonso at McLaren whilst the Spaniard races the Indy 500. I

:32:26. > :32:30.will have more at ten o'clock. We've been learning more

:32:31. > :32:32.about the bomber Salman Abedi. It's known he was born

:32:33. > :32:35.here in Manchester to Libyan parents who came to Britain as refugees

:32:36. > :32:38.from the regime of Colonel Gaddafi. Abedi was for a time a student

:32:39. > :32:41.at the University of Salford. It's also known that he'd travelled

:32:42. > :32:44.to Libya and returned a few His father and a younger brother

:32:45. > :32:50.have now been detained in Libya. Speaking just before

:32:51. > :32:52.he was detained, Salman Abeidi's father Ramadan gave an interview

:32:53. > :32:56.in Libya defending Our security correspondent

:32:57. > :34:56.Frank Gardner is here now. Let's pick up on that point, his

:34:57. > :35:03.father and younger brother arrested in Libya, what can you tell us about

:35:04. > :35:07.the arrest? That was Ramadan Abedi, the father of Salman Abedi, and he

:35:08. > :35:14.is in typical denial. We saw that from the father of the Nice truck

:35:15. > :35:20.driver who mowed down people in France last year. No parent wants to

:35:21. > :35:27.admit their son is a mass murderer, but that is the situation here.

:35:28. > :35:33.Salman Abedi is a mass murderer. Was, he is dead. That is his father,

:35:34. > :35:39.saying no, he didn't do it, this is the security services persecuting

:35:40. > :35:44.the Libyan community in Manchester. He has been arrested by a

:35:45. > :35:49.counterterrorist unit of a militia in Libya that is part of the UN

:35:50. > :35:54.recognised government. Libya is a mess and it hasn't got one sovereign

:35:55. > :35:59.government in charge of the country. It is a lot of different fiefdoms

:36:00. > :36:04.who don't recognise each other. The place is awash with weapons,

:36:05. > :36:09.explosives and ammunition. It is a basket case, unfortunately. It is

:36:10. > :36:14.sad because it should be a success story. There is a big expat Libyan

:36:15. > :36:20.community who has grown up in Manchester. Someone to fight in

:36:21. > :36:23.Libya in 2011, not exactly with the blessing of the British government,

:36:24. > :36:29.but they didn't object because they were overthrowing Colonel Gaddafi.

:36:30. > :36:32.Most of them came back and nothing happened. But a small number did go

:36:33. > :36:36.to Syria and there is a recruiter allegedly linked to this family who

:36:37. > :36:42.was involved with sending Libyan Mancunians to Syria. What is

:36:43. > :36:48.emerging about the network potentially around Salman Abedi?

:36:49. > :36:54.They are using the word network. I think it is too grand a word. It may

:36:55. > :36:59.only be won or two people. But early on in the investigation, they

:37:00. > :37:03.reached the conclusion that the sophistication of the device meant

:37:04. > :37:07.it could not have just been done by one person. Whoever did this new

:37:08. > :37:12.about chemical compounds, how did they acquired the materials without

:37:13. > :37:19.raising suspicion? What are we in the media didn't know, but I imagine

:37:20. > :37:23.the forensic people, at the government laboratories, will

:37:24. > :37:29.probably know whether this explosive is locally sourced, home-made, some

:37:30. > :37:34.kind of organic phosphate or military grade explosive that has

:37:35. > :37:37.come from overseas or stolen from a military barracks in somewhere like

:37:38. > :37:54.Libya. We don't know yet. Thank you very much. I just want to say the

:37:55. > :38:00.18th victim has been named. It is Wendy who was 50. The latest name we

:38:01. > :38:10.have been told is Wendy Fawell. Well, since it was revealed that

:38:11. > :38:13.Monday night's attacker - Salman Abedi - was born and bred

:38:14. > :38:16.in Manchester, it's raised familiar questions about home-grown terrorism

:38:17. > :38:18.and what can be done to stop it. The government's existing

:38:19. > :38:21.strategy called Prevent - which aims to stop vulnerable people

:38:22. > :38:23.from being radicalised - We'll be discussing this in a moment

:38:24. > :38:33.but first our report Catrin Nye can remind us

:38:34. > :38:49.what the prevent strategy is. Well, the strategy is one part of

:38:50. > :38:55.the government counterterrorism strategy. After the London bombings,

:38:56. > :39:00.there was extra funding, tens of millions of pounds over a number of

:39:01. > :39:05.years. This is the home of this definition, to stop people becoming

:39:06. > :39:09.terrorists or supporting terrorism. It is a pre-emptive part of the

:39:10. > :39:14.counterterrorism strategy, trying to stop people causing harm before they

:39:15. > :39:19.have done it. That why it is difficult to measure. It helps

:39:20. > :39:30.explain why it can be controversial. In practice, what does it involve?

:39:31. > :39:36.There are lots of parts of Prevent. Some things are like workshops in

:39:37. > :39:40.schools, going and talking to children about extremism, extremist

:39:41. > :39:44.groups and teaching them critical thinking skills, so teaching them

:39:45. > :39:50.how to cope if they are confronted with those extremist ideas. I have a

:39:51. > :39:54.video which shows a Prevent session in a school in Leicester. This was

:39:55. > :39:59.filmed before what happened in Manchester.

:40:00. > :40:13.We have tried every other way. This is important, 44 civilians. I was

:40:14. > :40:17.frightened that if I continued with this particular group, I would be

:40:18. > :40:24.raising a monster. They see themselves as part of an army. It

:40:25. > :40:32.just so happened that extreme group targeted them just at the right

:40:33. > :40:47.moment in their life and they left. It can happen to anybody. At the

:40:48. > :40:51.more severe end, you have channel, 121 mentoring. Perhaps they have

:40:52. > :41:00.joined a group, or thinking of travelling to Syria. Also, in 2015,

:41:01. > :41:03.it became a statutory duty for schools and other places where young

:41:04. > :41:11.people are educated to prevent people from being drawn into

:41:12. > :41:17.terrorism, Prevent became a duty. Why is it so controversial? Prevent

:41:18. > :41:23.has been controversial since the very start. One of the reasons is,

:41:24. > :41:28.it has been accused of being a spying programme. Some teachers have

:41:29. > :41:31.complained, because they have to keep an eye on the views of their

:41:32. > :41:40.pupils, students, that means they are doing the work of the security

:41:41. > :41:43.services. Also it can limit free speech. Some academic teachers again

:41:44. > :41:47.at other people argue in a place like a school or university, young

:41:48. > :41:52.people should be able to say things that are controversial and they

:41:53. > :41:56.should be able to criticise the government and foreign policy

:41:57. > :42:00.without worrying they might be reported to Prevent. The other

:42:01. > :42:05.criticism is about stigmatising communities. A lot of the effort and

:42:06. > :42:10.money behind Prevent is directed at the Muslim community and that has

:42:11. > :42:16.been accused of stigmatising Muslims and also alienating people. What our

:42:17. > :42:26.politicians saying? We do have an election coming up and the parties

:42:27. > :42:30.don't agree. Labour want to review Prevent, whether it is effective or

:42:31. > :42:34.alienating people. The Conservatives have said they want to uplift

:42:35. > :42:40.Prevent, put more money into it because they argue it is working.

:42:41. > :42:43.OK, thank you very much. Lots to talk about.

:42:44. > :42:49.Well, we can now speak to Hifsa Iqbal in Stoke.

:42:50. > :42:51.Hifsa works for the Prevent programme, going into colleges

:42:52. > :42:52.and universities around the West Midlands.

:42:53. > :42:55.Khalid Mahmood joins us from Birmingham, where he's been

:42:56. > :42:58.an MP for many years and is standing again for the Labour Party.

:42:59. > :43:00.Zubeda Limbada is the director of Connect Futures, that's

:43:01. > :43:02.an independent think tank which works alongside police

:43:03. > :43:05.forces and communities to tackle radicalisation,

:43:06. > :43:10.she joins us via webcam from Birmingham.

:43:11. > :43:14.And in the studio we have Miqdaad Versi from the Muslim

:43:15. > :43:29.Thank you for joining us. You believe Prevent is flawed, why is

:43:30. > :43:31.that? I think the views of many people in broader society have

:43:32. > :43:37.demonstrated they have serious concerns about Prevent. We have

:43:38. > :43:42.talked about there being serious and long lasting damage to young

:43:43. > :43:45.children as a result of Prevent, a view shared by the Conservative

:43:46. > :43:49.Party. There is a broad understanding that when it comes to

:43:50. > :43:54.young children in school, the way many of them feel stigmatised,

:43:55. > :43:58.particularly Muslim students, not being able to do what they will

:43:59. > :44:03.normally do, their parents are telling them not to say certain

:44:04. > :44:06.things in school. It stigmatising them from a young age and treats

:44:07. > :44:13.them as a potential security threat. You are saying some people could be

:44:14. > :44:18.radicalised as a result of Prevent? The junk committee for human rights

:44:19. > :44:23.has said it risks being counter-productive. Do you think it

:44:24. > :44:29.is counter-productive? I think there is a risk of it, no one can know for

:44:30. > :44:33.sure. Nobody wants to create unnecessary damage. What matters is

:44:34. > :44:40.that people do feel alienated. There are many different people across

:44:41. > :44:45.different societies, different human rights groups, who are concerned. We

:44:46. > :44:49.need engagement from the government in Muslim communities, rather than

:44:50. > :44:54.talking at them, but talking to them. You do go into schools and

:44:55. > :44:57.colleges, what is your view when you hear this being said that it is

:44:58. > :45:06.counter-productive, potentially? Good morning. I work specifically

:45:07. > :45:11.with colleges and universities in the West Midlands region. As your

:45:12. > :45:15.reporter said initially, Prevent is about safeguarding, it is about

:45:16. > :45:19.protecting young people who are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons

:45:20. > :45:24.and could potentially be radicalised and taken down the route of

:45:25. > :45:30.supporting terrorism or committing terrorist atrocities themselves. I

:45:31. > :45:34.am concerned about what your guest says because my experience working

:45:35. > :45:38.in colleges and universities is different. Some of the reports that

:45:39. > :45:44.have come out in relation to Prevent and how people feel, some of the

:45:45. > :45:47.cases that have been quoted have had nothing to do with Prevent. They

:45:48. > :45:53.have been specific issues around safeguarding.

:45:54. > :45:59.Sorry to interrupt that I want to get down to the nitty-gritty of what

:46:00. > :46:02.you do and whether you have come across people who have changed their

:46:03. > :46:05.views, who were potentially going down one path and you have seen a

:46:06. > :46:10.change of perspective as a result of the common sessions you have been

:46:11. > :46:13.having? The common sessions I have specifically within the colleges and

:46:14. > :46:18.universities tend to be on the whole with staff. It is about having an

:46:19. > :46:22.understanding, sorry my earpiece is falling out, about having an

:46:23. > :46:28.understanding of what these vulnerabilities are. It is not my

:46:29. > :46:30.job to go into the colleges all universities to sport or pick up

:46:31. > :46:36.these vulnerabilities, because I don't know the young people, I don't

:46:37. > :46:40.know the situation, or where necessarily these individuals are

:46:41. > :46:45.coming from. My job is specifically about explaining vulnerabilities and

:46:46. > :46:47.how the universities and colleges need to understand those

:46:48. > :46:53.vulnerabilities and then support the individuals. You work alongside

:46:54. > :46:57.police forces and communities to tackle radicalisation, what do you

:46:58. > :47:03.believe is the best way? I think we have to take a middle ground

:47:04. > :47:07.approach. McDowell has rightly expressed concerns, but that same

:47:08. > :47:10.time as an organisation we took a protracted approach, we have been

:47:11. > :47:16.working with both students and staff in schools about how we strengthen

:47:17. > :47:23.critical thinking, how we get young people to engage around topics of

:47:24. > :47:28.extremism and radicalisation, giving them practical skills. Who do they

:47:29. > :47:32.talk to in schools, do they talk to their teachers, how do they address

:47:33. > :47:35.online radicalisation, so I think with Prevent we need to take that

:47:36. > :47:41.middle ground of understanding where kids concerns are. We have to

:47:42. > :47:44.understand why people in the Muslim community are feeling concerned but

:47:45. > :47:47.at the same time when we go into schools and communities, we know

:47:48. > :47:53.that there is a problem of far right radicalisation. We know that the

:47:54. > :47:57.narratives of each side, Islamist and far right groups, feed into one

:47:58. > :48:00.another. People want the practical aspects and politicians need to

:48:01. > :48:07.engage effectively because I do think that although the Prevent

:48:08. > :48:12.strategy has been in place and since 2007, the grassroots engagement,

:48:13. > :48:16.both needing gauging with as well. So when we go into schools,

:48:17. > :48:22.assemblies are really important as a way of communicating, and we provide

:48:23. > :48:26.that training. Khaled Mahmud, you are a politician, there are divided

:48:27. > :48:29.views among politicians about whether Prevent needs to be

:48:30. > :48:34.completely rethought or whether new resources need to go into it. Do you

:48:35. > :48:38.believe that terror attacks have been prevented as a result of

:48:39. > :48:46.Prevent, people have stopped going down a particular path because of

:48:47. > :48:49.the intervention of Prevent. There are certain groups in Birmingham who

:48:50. > :48:53.have said they have been able to pull people back from taking a much

:48:54. > :48:56.more radical route by the support given to them through the prevent

:48:57. > :49:02.programme they have run. So there is evidence -based issues in Birmingham

:49:03. > :49:07.that have managed to do that. I think the real issue here is

:49:08. > :49:12.twofold, it and education, where at the moment we have a duty in terms

:49:13. > :49:18.of child protection. If it is child abuse or a CSE case going on, then

:49:19. > :49:21.the colleges, universities and the schools are perfectly legitimate to

:49:22. > :49:24.look at that. If the same thing applies to somebody being

:49:25. > :49:30.radicalised, then people are saying no, they shouldn't be doing that.

:49:31. > :49:33.This is a bit of a red herring here. This is a purely child protection

:49:34. > :49:39.issue and in that respect I don't think it should be a problem. Where

:49:40. > :49:44.the issue also lies about the general community-based Prevent.

:49:45. > :49:49.There are issues I said all along we need to address. But the Muslim

:49:50. > :49:52.council of Britain needs to come out and say if they are unhappy with

:49:53. > :49:55.this, what will we do? We need people to come out and say if they

:49:56. > :50:00.are not happy with these sort of issues, let's change this and do

:50:01. > :50:03.something about it. There are changes that need to be made to

:50:04. > :50:07.Prevent but at the same time this is the process we have got. If we don't

:50:08. > :50:11.engage with it there are summiteers who can do things that we don't

:50:12. > :50:14.like. If you don't like what is happening at the moment, come

:50:15. > :50:21.forward and say to the politicians, say to us, there are issues we want

:50:22. > :50:25.to engage in, I think at the moment Prevent deals with much smaller

:50:26. > :50:28.organisations, what we need to do is engage with the mainstream of the

:50:29. > :50:33.Muslim community to deal with that. I think there should be helpline set

:50:34. > :50:38.up both in the way that young people need to approach and have access to

:50:39. > :50:43.those people, a helpline. Something we have in Birmingham with the

:50:44. > :50:46.Muslims in the UK network. That headline which is about domestic

:50:47. > :50:50.violence and other issues that they want to discuss with people, a lot

:50:51. > :50:54.of issues of radicalisation comes through that as well. One thing

:50:55. > :50:57.feeds into another. I want to pick up on all those points with you but

:50:58. > :51:01.I just want to pause for a moment from this conversation just to bring

:51:02. > :51:06.the very sad news that another victim of the Manchester bombing has

:51:07. > :51:10.just been named. It is a Cheshire police officer, Helene MacGyver. Her

:51:11. > :51:22.family have her family have said she would want

:51:23. > :51:28.us to carry on regardless and not be frightened. A brief statement has

:51:29. > :51:31.been put out saying that Elaine was a much loved daughter, sister and

:51:32. > :51:37.colleague. She was everyone's friend, thoughtful beyond belief

:51:38. > :51:41.with an effervescent and outgoing personality. She would have been

:51:42. > :51:47.devastated by the injuries sustained by her partner, Paul. Elaine loved

:51:48. > :51:50.life and had a major love of music. Despite what has happened to her she

:51:51. > :51:57.would want us all to carry on regardless and not be frightened.

:51:58. > :52:05.Instead she regularly barged us all to rise up against it. We know she

:52:06. > :52:08.will live in our hearts forever. So Elaine McIver has been named in the

:52:09. > :52:14.past few moments, the 19th victim to be named of the Manchester attack.

:52:15. > :52:22.Just a few moments ago, we also brought you the details of the 18th

:52:23. > :52:26.victim to be named today. Wendy Fall from Otley. She is 50 and was name

:52:27. > :52:31.just a few moments ago. I think we can now bring you a picture of

:52:32. > :52:36.Elaine McIver. There she is. Cheshire police officer, killed in

:52:37. > :52:39.the Manchester bombing. Her family have said despite what has happened

:52:40. > :52:44.to her, she would want us all to carry on regardless and not be

:52:45. > :52:49.frightened by fear tactics. Instead she regularly urged us all to rise

:52:50. > :52:57.up against it. We will miss her beyond belief, but she will live in

:52:58. > :53:08.our hearts forever. So, 19 victims of the attacks have been name, the

:53:09. > :53:16.absolute priority has been for the police and those around them

:53:17. > :53:20.supporting them. Let me come back to you, Khalid Mahmud, you are talking

:53:21. > :53:24.about the responsibility of communities. It is often said it is

:53:25. > :53:32.not policing that defeat terrorism, it is communities. When we look at

:53:33. > :53:38.what happened here, and we now know that Salman Abedi was actually

:53:39. > :53:44.reported. A hotline was called to say that there were concerns around

:53:45. > :53:48.his behaviour. He had said he was supportive of terrorism, he didn't

:53:49. > :53:53.see anything wrong with being a suicide bomber. That was exactly the

:53:54. > :54:03.right thing. Yes, first of all, my condolences to Elaine and my -- to

:54:04. > :54:06.Elaine and her family. They have been significant security failures

:54:07. > :54:09.in relation to this particular individual and all of those need to

:54:10. > :54:14.be looked at. That needs to be addressed as well very strongly once

:54:15. > :54:19.an investigation is out of the way and we ask real questions as to why

:54:20. > :54:24.that was allowed to happen and why those issues have not been picked up

:54:25. > :54:27.about the security forces. So that is a real issue. But what we'll so

:54:28. > :54:33.have to look at clearly going forward is what role all of us

:54:34. > :54:35.plays, the community plays, and you have had Europe or the early-onset

:54:36. > :54:43.thing about the victimisation of the Muslim community. -- you have had

:54:44. > :54:46.your reporter saying about the issue of the victimisation of the Muslim

:54:47. > :54:49.community. There are a small number of people who are being radicalised

:54:50. > :54:56.to the degree that they are prepared to take other people's lives. In my

:54:57. > :55:03.constituency, sorry, in Birmingham, we looked at that area where there

:55:04. > :55:08.were Afro-Caribbean riots from 1985 onwards. We did not stigmatise them,

:55:09. > :55:12.with the Port of them, to the point now when the last time these issues

:55:13. > :55:17.-- we supported them. Those are the things we can change. What you have

:55:18. > :55:19.to do is acknowledge there is an issue, the community has to deal

:55:20. > :55:24.with it and then move forward. Without doing that you can't move

:55:25. > :55:28.forward. Mick Dowd, what is the most positive way of moving forward? One

:55:29. > :55:34.of the biggest things is about engagement. We need to have cross

:55:35. > :55:39.community engagement on this issue. At the moment, David Anderson, one

:55:40. > :55:43.of the most senior people on this topic on me was talking about how it

:55:44. > :55:46.is extraordinary that the government is not doing more organisation with

:55:47. > :55:51.the Muslim councillor Britain. He found it quite unusual. I think that

:55:52. > :55:59.is really what we need now, we need to get trust. Throughout the

:56:00. > :56:02.Prevent? It is an independent review, if certain things are going

:56:03. > :56:06.well, the Muslim community should see we are going well, and they are

:56:07. > :56:09.likely to buy into it if they have confidence and there is an

:56:10. > :56:12.independent scrutiny of this and their views are being heard and

:56:13. > :56:19.understood. I think it is all about trust here. We all want to keep

:56:20. > :56:23.ourselves safe and secure. That works two ways, the trust has to be

:56:24. > :56:28.both sides and they need to work with each other to do that, not

:56:29. > :56:33.finger-pointing age side. And you can see when the government

:56:34. > :56:42.introduces legislation, we put forward a response to that with

:56:43. > :56:50.ideas of how to move forward. We reached at quite extensively on a

:56:51. > :56:54.range of different topics. We raised a number of concerns. All of those

:56:55. > :57:02.things, we are truly are in gauging as much as possible. Thank you all.

:57:03. > :57:05.Manchester United have dedicated last night's Europa League victory

:57:06. > :57:07.to the victims of Monday's attack in the city.

:57:08. > :57:10.The club beat Ajax 2-0 in Stockholm, and afterwards tweeted a photo

:57:11. > :57:20.of a banner reading: "Manchester - A City United."

:57:21. > :57:23.Players and fans observed a minutes silence at the start of the match

:57:24. > :57:26.in tribute to those who killed -- with both teams also

:57:27. > :57:31.Thousands of supporters travelled to Sweden to watch the match --

:57:32. > :57:44.After the game former United player David Beckham tweeted this.

:57:45. > :57:49.Thousands of supporters travelled to Sweden to watch the match but let's

:57:50. > :57:53.first here's some reaction from former United player, Phil Neville.

:57:54. > :57:58.I think the emotion in the stadium was fantastic. We are all

:57:59. > :58:02.emotionally drained. Our thoughts are still with those people who lost

:58:03. > :58:06.their lives, that is to our hearts and prayers are with the night but

:58:07. > :58:12.it has been a wonderful night for Manchester United. I think tonight

:58:13. > :58:18.is a night that will mean so much, and for Manchester United, we have

:58:19. > :58:20.seen real Northern Soul tonight. STUDIO:

:58:21. > :58:23.Let's talk now to Jo, a Man Utd fan who was at last

:58:24. > :58:29.Thank you for joining us, what was the atmosphere like for you? The

:58:30. > :58:33.atmosphere was absolutely incredible last night. As people have said, a

:58:34. > :58:43.really bittersweet night in Stockholm. The atmosphere throughout

:58:44. > :58:46.the day was amazing the fans were united in their solidarity with us,

:58:47. > :58:51.in what they were saying about the atrocity on Monday night in

:58:52. > :58:59.Manchester. A couple even said we hope United win. Within the stadium

:59:00. > :59:04.it was incredible. It is a football match, clearly it has a residence

:59:05. > :59:07.for many beyond football. Going to a football match immediately after

:59:08. > :59:15.what happened, how did you feel about that? Being honest with you, I

:59:16. > :59:18.found it very difficult. I felt like everybody from this city and more

:59:19. > :59:23.widely, very emotional after what happened. I was still awake and up

:59:24. > :59:27.when the news broke late on Monday night. I didn't really sleep, and

:59:28. > :59:31.then I was finding myself getting up at five o'clock in the morning to

:59:32. > :59:33.pack and come to Stockholm, and I did think twice about coming and I

:59:34. > :59:40.knew that the atmosphere would be very difficult. But equally, the

:59:41. > :59:44.coming together has meant something, and the bonding of all of the fans

:59:45. > :59:50.over what has happened. Thank you for joining us, Jo.

:59:51. > :59:54.All the latest reaction and news coming up of you in just a few

:59:55. > :59:59.moments, but now the weather with Simon.

:00:00. > :00:05.We have had the warmest day of the year so far yesterday, 26.6 the

:00:06. > :00:09.green Celsius was recorded yesterday. Today will be even

:00:10. > :00:13.warmer, if not hotter across many parts of the UK. Many of us woke up

:00:14. > :00:18.to some sunshine just like this in Milton Keynes. But it is not

:00:19. > :00:25.everywhere. We have some fog around the Irish Sea coasts. Parts of

:00:26. > :00:30.Northern Ireland, South and West Scotland. Here in Welshpool, the

:00:31. > :00:35.sheep enjoying that fog of the moment but the fault will gradually

:00:36. > :00:42.clear away. We are looking at some sunshine -- the fog will gradually

:00:43. > :00:45.clear away. It will be very warm if not hot as we go through the

:00:46. > :00:50.afternoon. A bit of cloud will develop here and there. Also that

:00:51. > :00:52.fog gradually clearing. Much more sunshine across Scotland compared

:00:53. > :00:58.yesterday. This is where we might see some of the highest temperatures

:00:59. > :01:03.today. 28 or 29 Celsius. Even the central belt, temperatures widely

:01:04. > :01:06.into the mid-20s. Sunshine from Northern Ireland, eventually in the

:01:07. > :01:12.Isle of Man and elsewhere we will see some fair weather cloud building

:01:13. > :01:16.up. Look at those temperatures, 25 to 28 Celsius across the south-east

:01:17. > :01:20.of England during this afternoon. It is worth bearing in mind that the UV

:01:21. > :01:24.levels are high, if not very high, across parts of the South West

:01:25. > :01:29.during this afternoon, so factor that in a few are out and about. For

:01:30. > :01:32.the rest of this evening, little change, there will be some clear

:01:33. > :01:37.skies taking us into Friday morning. It will be another warm and humid

:01:38. > :01:43.night, temperatures now lower really than about 14, 16, 17 Celsius into

:01:44. > :01:49.Friday morning. So a very warm start the day and actually on Friday it

:01:50. > :01:53.will be a hot day compared to today. More sunshine. Not much in a way of

:01:54. > :01:56.fog tomorrow, so we get away with a sunny start around the Irish Sea

:01:57. > :02:01.coasts but those temperatures really starting to build up tomorrow. 28,

:02:02. > :02:05.29, perhaps touching 30 in western Scotland. Elsewhere as well, the

:02:06. > :02:10.temperatures in the mid to high 20s. As they go into Saturday, a hot and

:02:11. > :02:15.humid start, look at this weather front coming in from the West. As it

:02:16. > :02:19.hits that hot air, we are going to seize and heavy showers, some

:02:20. > :02:22.thunderstorms as well. Those thunderstorms working their way

:02:23. > :02:27.further north and east. Still quite hot in central and eastern areas,

:02:28. > :02:34.25, 28, but fresher as though showers pushed through. Going into

:02:35. > :02:37.Sunday and bank Oliver, hot and humid to start. There will be a

:02:38. > :02:45.thundery breakdown on Saturday. Fresher conditions will follow.

:02:46. > :02:51.Hello it's 10 o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling.

:02:52. > :03:00.Two more victims have been named this morning, a Elaine McIver, an

:03:01. > :03:11.off-duty police officer and 50-year-old Wendy Fawell from Otley.

:03:12. > :03:17.You saw the best of Greater Manchester yesterday. I was in the

:03:18. > :03:22.hospitals last night and I was hearing stories about porters,

:03:23. > :03:27.cleaners, nurses, surgeons came in to help out. The public where

:03:28. > :03:28.bringing in food and the public did pull together and we should take a

:03:29. > :03:39.great deal of pride in that. We will speak to a woman who started

:03:40. > :03:47.a fundraising campaign and a nurse who helped the victims in the middle

:03:48. > :03:55.of the night. Chief Superintendent John Sutherland has spent years in

:03:56. > :03:57.front-line policing and he will talk about coping with the after effect.

:03:58. > :04:00.After a pause in political campaigning following the bomb

:04:01. > :04:02.attack on Monday, Ukip are launching their manifesto

:04:03. > :04:14.Our political guru Norman Smith will be live from the launch for us.

:04:15. > :04:19.Here is Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:04:20. > :04:21.BBC News has been told that the police have stopped sharing

:04:22. > :04:23.information about the Manchester bombing with officials

:04:24. > :04:25.in the United States, following a series of leaks thought

:04:26. > :04:27.to have come from the American intelligence community.

:04:28. > :04:29.Last night, the New York Times published photographs apparently

:04:30. > :04:33.showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to conceal it.

:04:34. > :04:59.Our correspondent Catrina Renton is in Manchester for us.

:05:00. > :05:46.The UK and the US often share intelligence on these kind of

:05:47. > :05:51.matters. To have stopped doing this is significant and shows just how

:05:52. > :05:54.angry British officials are. Officers say they hope to resume

:05:55. > :05:59.normal intelligence religion ship soon. Let me give you the latest on

:06:00. > :06:04.the investigation. Eight men now are in custody in relation to the

:06:05. > :06:08.attack. This is a fast moving investigation with new lines of

:06:09. > :06:13.investigation coming forward. Officers have a lot of work to do to

:06:14. > :06:18.focus in on that network that Salman Abedi is believed to have been in.

:06:19. > :06:23.And of course the minute's silence due to be observed at 11 o'clock,

:06:24. > :06:27.with chief comes to Ian Hopkins leading the tribute to the people of

:06:28. > :06:34.Manchester here. Thank you very much.

:06:35. > :06:40.Two more who died in the attack have been named. Elaine McIver, who was a

:06:41. > :06:45.police officer in the Cheshire police force, was killed in the

:06:46. > :06:49.bombing and 50-year-old Wendy Fawell also died in the attack.

:06:50. > :06:52.Theresa May is to raise concerns with Donald Trump after evidence

:06:53. > :06:55.from the Manchester Arena bombing was apparently leaked to US media.

:06:56. > :06:57.President Trump is in Brussels today, ahead of a NATO summit,

:06:58. > :06:59.where he's been meeting European Council leader Donald Tusk.

:07:00. > :07:02.The prime minister is expected to raise the issue of the leak

:07:03. > :07:17.There is a lot of anger in the UK about this leaking of intelligence.

:07:18. > :07:20.Yes there is, it is something Theresa May will be expressing the

:07:21. > :07:30.Donald Trump we understand when they meet at Nato headquarters this

:07:31. > :07:35.afternoon. The name of the suicide bomber was released. The pictures

:07:36. > :07:38.from the attack scene were released, all from American sources,

:07:39. > :07:43.information that had come from UK police. We know that UK police in

:07:44. > :07:46.Manchester say they are not sharing any more information. That is not

:07:47. > :07:51.something that has come from the government itself, and the wider

:07:52. > :07:57.intelligence sharing doesn't seem to be affected. But the concern is this

:07:58. > :08:02.could be having an impact, the leaks could well be having an impact,

:08:03. > :08:05.particularly on the police investigation in Manchester, efforts

:08:06. > :08:11.to investigate the wider network and prevent any other possible plots

:08:12. > :08:17.that might be under way. So that is something Theresa May will raise

:08:18. > :08:22.with Donald Trump. At the same time, she and he, I'm sure, will be

:08:23. > :08:25.joining this call for Nato as a whole to join the anti-ISAs

:08:26. > :08:30.coalition, and that is something we should see Nato leaders together

:08:31. > :08:34.sign up to this afternoon, the organisation joining in the

:08:35. > :08:40.anti-ISAs efforts. Not in any way in any sort of combat efforts in Syria

:08:41. > :08:44.but providing support, logistics, training to Iraqi forces, that sort

:08:45. > :08:46.of thing. Damien Grammaticas in Brussels.

:08:47. > :08:47.Two more men have been arrested in connection

:08:48. > :08:51.One was detained following searches of an address in the Withington area

:08:52. > :08:54.of the city, while another was arrested in a part

:08:55. > :08:56.of Greater Manchester that was not disclosed.

:08:57. > :08:58.The new arrests bring the total number of people

:08:59. > :09:03.The suspect's older brother is among those in custody in Manchester.

:09:04. > :09:12.Two other members of his family have have been detained in Libya.

:09:13. > :09:14.Ariana Grande's concerts at London's O2 Arena on Thursday

:09:15. > :09:16.and Friday have been cancelled following the Manchester

:09:17. > :09:20.A statement said the US singer's Dangerous Woman tour would be

:09:21. > :09:24.It added that Grande, 23, wanted to pay "proper

:09:25. > :09:32."Our way of life has once again been threatened

:09:33. > :09:36.Manchester United have dedicated their victory in last

:09:37. > :09:38.night's Europa League final to the victims of

:09:39. > :09:42.Thousands of fans travelled to Stockholm to watch the match,

:09:43. > :09:50.which was a highly emotional affair on and off the pitch.

:09:51. > :09:52.Migration to Britain fell significantly last

:09:53. > :09:58.Net long-term international migration to the UK was estimated

:09:59. > :10:09.to be 248,000 in 2016, a fall of 84,000 compared to 2015.

:10:10. > :10:14.The office for National statistics said the change was driven by both a

:10:15. > :10:21.rise in the number of people leaving the country, mainly EU citizens, and

:10:22. > :10:26.a fall in the number of people arriving in Britain. Despite the

:10:27. > :10:28.fall, net migration is still more than double the government as Matt

:10:29. > :10:39.Targett. Just want to bring you this, some of

:10:40. > :10:45.your comments on Prevent. Lynn says having been a teacher in education

:10:46. > :10:48.and having to implement the strategy, this needs to come mainly

:10:49. > :10:59.from the Muslim community as they need to take much

:11:00. > :11:04.also if radicalised people go out to the likes of Syria and Libya, their

:11:05. > :11:08.British passports should be removed to prevent re-entry into this

:11:09. > :11:13.country. Refugees and immigrants should also be thoroughly vetted

:11:14. > :11:18.when entering the country. Rory on Facebook says Prevent is pathetic.

:11:19. > :11:28.If we really want to help prevent terrorism, let's than the burqa and

:11:29. > :11:34.face veils. Extreme socio economic conditions are what drive people to

:11:35. > :11:37.extremism, we need a fairer society to deal with it.

:11:38. > :11:49.A victory for Manchester United who are this morning celebrating a 2-0

:11:50. > :11:54.victory over Ajax in the Europa League last night. There was a

:11:55. > :11:57.minute's silence just before that game started, as a mark of respect

:11:58. > :12:01.for those who lost their lives in the attack. Paul Pogba gave United

:12:02. > :12:09.the lead within the first 20 minutes. Henrik Mkhitaryan added the

:12:10. > :12:15.second after the break. It means that United qualify for next

:12:16. > :12:18.season's Champions League. Jose Mourinho pay tribute to his players

:12:19. > :12:26.for the way they handled at under such difficult circumstances. We

:12:27. > :12:30.just came to do our job, we came without the happiness that we should

:12:31. > :12:35.bring with us, because when you come for these big matches, you go have

:12:36. > :12:41.become you go proud. And we didn't. We just came to do our job. And the

:12:42. > :12:49.boys were fantastic, because they blocked, they put a wall in front of

:12:50. > :12:54.their eyes, and they stayed isolated from everything, and they focused on

:12:55. > :12:55.the football match, which I think we played really, really well. The

:12:56. > :13:01.cricket now. beat South Africa by 72 runs in the

:13:02. > :13:08.first one-day international at Headingley. They are ranked number

:13:09. > :13:13.one in one-day cricket but could not stop England reaching a total of

:13:14. > :13:16.331-64 stop Captain Eoin Morgan scored a century. South Africa

:13:17. > :13:22.started surely in reply but then collapsed and they were all out for

:13:23. > :13:26.just 267. Chris Woakes picked up four wickets. The series continues

:13:27. > :13:31.in Southampton on Saturday. A pretty good day at the office for us.

:13:32. > :13:34.Playing against an extremely strong South Africa team, putting in an

:13:35. > :13:43.all-round performance that I thought was brilliant. Trying to do the

:13:44. > :13:47.basics well. First practice is well underway at the Monaco Grand Prix.

:13:48. > :13:51.The 2009 world champion Jenson Button says he feels no pressure,

:13:52. > :13:58.ahead of his one-off return to Formula 1. Button retired at the end

:13:59. > :14:05.of last season but is racing for McLaren in place of Fernando Alonso.

:14:06. > :14:09.If you can come back for one race, Monaco is the race. I am very

:14:10. > :14:13.excited, to drive a new car because it is very different to what I have

:14:14. > :14:17.been driving, but also to race in Monaco, the most prestigious Grand

:14:18. > :14:22.Prix and the most glamorous as well. The Frenchman Pierre Rowland ended a

:14:23. > :14:30.two-year wait for victory by winning the 17th stage of the Giro d'Italia.

:14:31. > :14:35.It was the 30-year-old's first triumph. His team's first grand tour

:14:36. > :14:41.stage for two years. The race leader Tom Dumoulin and retains a 31 second

:14:42. > :14:45.overall lead. Written's Adam Yates was 30th and is 11 overall -- Great

:14:46. > :14:52.Britain's Adam Yates. I will have more in the next hour.

:14:53. > :15:01.Ukip leader Paul Nuttall will unveil his party's manifesto. This is

:15:02. > :15:09.further delay will let the terrorists win. We will go live to

:15:10. > :15:15.Paul Nuttall, where he will be outlining the manifesto. Norman

:15:16. > :15:19.Smith, there had been a pause in the campaigning, will there be a change

:15:20. > :15:24.in tone when it resumes today, resuming with the Ukip manifesto? I

:15:25. > :15:28.think they're almost certainly will be, maybe a bit more subdued, but

:15:29. > :15:33.this is a big moment for Ukip because they have been on a bit of a

:15:34. > :15:38.nosedive really since the Brexit result, since the departure of Nigel

:15:39. > :15:41.Farage, since the repeatedly to ship tussles, the organisational chaos,

:15:42. > :15:44.the hammering they took in the local elections. Remember, they lost every

:15:45. > :15:50.single sitting councillor, just one Ukip candidate won his seat, so they

:15:51. > :15:53.really are taking a pummelling at the moment, and the hope is that

:15:54. > :15:57.this manifesto can just somehow give them a little bit of a lift. The

:15:58. > :16:01.difficulty of course obviously as they have lost their main purpose,

:16:02. > :16:05.their main aim, mainly Brexit. We have all voted for Brexit seven no

:16:06. > :16:10.longer the great reason for them. So they have to sketch out a different

:16:11. > :16:16.sort of agenda. I think probably Mr Nuttall is starting so let's have a

:16:17. > :16:22.listen. Friends, due to a cruel and evil act of terrorism, in

:16:23. > :16:28.Manchester, on Monday night I also want to make it clear that the vast

:16:29. > :16:36.majority of the Muslim population of this country are peaceful people,

:16:37. > :16:42.and a great asset to our society. The fact that this Islamist

:16:43. > :16:47.terrorist targeted a concert, which was primarily attended by children

:16:48. > :16:54.and teenagers, simply proves that there is no depths to which these

:16:55. > :16:59.evil and warped individuals will stoop. When I was elected leader of

:17:00. > :17:07.Ukip six months ago, I was clear right away that the threat posed to

:17:08. > :17:11.our country by Islamic fundamentalism was one of the major

:17:12. > :17:19.issues I and indeed all politicians would face in the coming years. I

:17:20. > :17:23.also identified the need to take a far more muscular approach to social

:17:24. > :17:31.integration and against segregation as a key policy area. I also made it

:17:32. > :17:37.clear that extra investment in the security of our country was a top

:17:38. > :17:45.priority, both in terms of our police and our Armed Forces. Today's

:17:46. > :17:50.Ukip manifesto underlined all three of those priorities. Security in the

:17:51. > :17:59.form of provision for 20,000 extra police officers. 20,000 extra

:18:00. > :18:06.troops. 7000 extra prison officers and 4000 extra border guards. It was

:18:07. > :18:09.quite right that campaigning in this election is ceased to 24 hours

:18:10. > :18:17.yesterday but I believe it is the right decision to launch our

:18:18. > :18:22.manifesto today. It is the duty of democratic politics to confront the

:18:23. > :18:28.most serious issues of our time, and a general election campaign is the

:18:29. > :18:34.most appropriate moment for those issues to be debated. It is also our

:18:35. > :18:40.chance to send a message to those who hate our way of life, our values

:18:41. > :18:50.and democracy. The message is clear, you will not win. If hissing

:18:51. > :18:53.sympathy with those killed and maimed in Manchester is important,

:18:54. > :19:01.but it is not enough to light candles or signal our upset on

:19:02. > :19:04.social media. When you are a leader of a political party, you have the

:19:05. > :19:09.duty to set out how you would protect the people of your country

:19:10. > :19:18.from the threat to the entire way of life. There is no magic formula to

:19:19. > :19:23.turning back the tide of Islamic fundamentalism. Action needs to be

:19:24. > :19:31.taken across many policy areas, and it will take time to make

:19:32. > :19:38.significant progress. But be in no doubt, the problem will not be

:19:39. > :19:43.solved if politicians are too cowardly to confront or even

:19:44. > :19:47.identify where the problem lies. Moreover, without the political will

:19:48. > :19:53.to take difficult decisions, challenge communities, and most

:19:54. > :19:59.importantly secure our borders, things are only going to get worse.

:20:00. > :20:05.I was criticised by certain sections of the media for calling radical

:20:06. > :20:10.Islam a cancer in our society, following the Westminster attack. I

:20:11. > :20:18.make no apologies for saying this, and I will repeated today: it is a

:20:19. > :20:24.cancer that needs to be cut out. It is the role of Ukip in our national

:20:25. > :20:30.political life to challenge the cosy establishment consensus whenever it

:20:31. > :20:36.is failing the British public. We did that on immigration control, we

:20:37. > :20:42.did that on Brexit, and now we will do it by tackling issues surrounding

:20:43. > :20:51.integration. These are issues that the other political parties would

:20:52. > :20:53.rather brushed under the carpet, and the Westminster chatterati would

:20:54. > :21:00.rather ignore, simply because it makes them uncomfortable. The Prime

:21:01. > :21:03.Minister has during her time in office presided over cuts to our

:21:04. > :21:11.police service and reductions in our Armed Forces are too. She has put

:21:12. > :21:17.pressure on the police to lower the number of stops and searches they

:21:18. > :21:24.carry out. And no progress whatever was made reducing the level of

:21:25. > :21:31.immigration in order to give social cohesion and a chance to advance.

:21:32. > :21:34.This despite Mrs May's pledge to bring net migration down to the tens

:21:35. > :21:43.of thousands, and indeed this morning it was announced that we

:21:44. > :21:48.have added a city the size of Hull to our population in the last year.

:21:49. > :21:53.It is also a dereliction of duty to allow jihadis to re-enter this

:21:54. > :21:58.country, including it seems Monday night's terrorist. I want to make it

:21:59. > :22:02.clear that I believe anyone who leaves this country to fight for

:22:03. > :22:15.Islamic State should forfeit their passport, their citizenship, and

:22:16. > :22:20.never be allowed to return. APPLAUSE More police, more soldiers, more

:22:21. > :22:26.prison officers, and more border guards are essential. There are many

:22:27. > :22:30.other things in our manifesto today, including something that all of the

:22:31. > :22:37.other political parties would love to be able to offer but cannot. That

:22:38. > :22:41.is 11 billion a year spending increase for the NHS and adult

:22:42. > :22:47.social care by the end of the next Parliament. That increase matches

:22:48. > :22:53.the reduction we are pledged to make in foreign aid spending.

:22:54. > :23:01.All of our key Public Services came together to help the victims of the

:23:02. > :23:05.terror atrocity in Manchester. The police, the ambulance service, Fire

:23:06. > :23:10.and Rescue and all of the hospitals which are treating the injured. The

:23:11. > :23:15.response, just serves to emphasise how people who work in our Public

:23:16. > :23:21.Services are so vital to our society and its civilised values. It is time

:23:22. > :23:26.to start investing in them again. There is of course also a major

:23:27. > :23:32.section in the manifesto about Brexit. And we set out how we will

:23:33. > :23:39.keep the Government honest to its stated claim of taking Britain out

:23:40. > :23:43.of the European Union. We have laid out six key Brexit tests that we

:23:44. > :23:52.feel need to be met to ensure that we get the kind of Brexit that

:23:53. > :23:56.people voted for last year. Ukip is the country's insurance policy, and

:23:57. > :24:01.if the Government begin to backslide during these negotiations, then it

:24:02. > :24:07.must know that Ukip will be there. We will also be the party that

:24:08. > :24:13.stands up for gender equality. Freedom of expression and equality

:24:14. > :24:18.before the law. And make sure that these values are applied in every

:24:19. > :24:22.community within our country. No doubt we will suffer insults from

:24:23. > :24:30.the politically correct brigade for doing so. But that will not deter

:24:31. > :24:35.us. They will be the same people who called us racist for simply arguing

:24:36. > :24:40.for lower immigration. And just as we were proved right about the

:24:41. > :24:44.strains of excesses of the immigration and the strains it was

:24:45. > :24:49.placing on British communities, and we were right about the way Brussels

:24:50. > :24:55.had hollowed out our democracy, so we'll be proven right again about

:24:56. > :24:59.Britain's integration emergency. It's seldom easy being a Ukiper.

:25:00. > :25:05.Joining and establishment party would offer a far easier route to

:25:06. > :25:11.preferment. But this party is all about believing in our country and

:25:12. > :25:17.putting it first. It is not the British way to turn a blind eye to

:25:18. > :25:22.evil in our midst. It is not good enough to light candles and proclaim

:25:23. > :25:27.that extremists will not beat us. Action is required on multiple

:25:28. > :25:32.fronts and I am proud Ukip is setting out its patriotic agenda for

:25:33. > :25:38.defending our country and our way of life. And now, I am equally proud to

:25:39. > :25:43.hand over to my deputy chairman, Suzanne Evans, who will take you

:25:44. > :25:52.through some of the specific proposals within our 2017 manifesto.

:25:53. > :25:57.Thank you. STUDIO: The Ukip leader Paul Nuttall

:25:58. > :26:00.outlining what he says is Ukip's patriotic agenda for this country in

:26:01. > :26:05.the aftermath of the Manchester bombings. Let's go to Norman Smith,

:26:06. > :26:10.our political guru, who was listening to what he said.

:26:11. > :26:16.How do you see how Ukip is trying to position itself here?

:26:17. > :26:21.Really interesting. They are making integration the crux of their whole

:26:22. > :26:27.manifesto, saying the mainstream parties have basically been too

:26:28. > :26:34.cowardly to quote Paul Nuttall, to confront the issue, Ukip's role said

:26:35. > :26:47.Mr Nuttall was to cut out the cancer of Islamic fundamentalism. We didn't

:26:48. > :26:50.get any detail. One idea floated was to take passports away, not allowing

:26:51. > :26:53.people back into the country, the suggestion of border guards, prison

:26:54. > :27:00.officers, police officers, not clear how that will be funded, but Mr

:27:01. > :27:04.Nuttall seems to be trying to move Ukip into different terrain away

:27:05. > :27:09.from the focus on Brexit, away from the focus on imfrustration and on to

:27:10. > :27:13.this issue of integration, a highly, highly charged issue, particularly

:27:14. > :27:17.in the wake of the Manchester attacks. Paul Nuttall saying it's

:27:18. > :27:21.not good enough any longer just to express horror and outrage, to have

:27:22. > :27:27.vigils, to light candles, more has to be done. So they are trying to

:27:28. > :27:32.position themselves, I suppose, as the party that will take steps to

:27:33. > :27:37.tackle Islamic fundamentalism. What the steps are, we don't yet know.

:27:38. > :27:40.Thank you very much, Norman. Coming up, we'll be speaking to some

:27:41. > :27:45.of the heroes of the Manchester attack, the people who helped to

:27:46. > :27:51.shine some light in the city's darkest hour. We'll talk to a former

:27:52. > :27:54.top policeman about the effect of 25 years in frontline policing on his

:27:55. > :28:00.health and his life and how he feels now about Manchester.

:28:01. > :28:05.We'll talk to him about the pressures frontline officers dealing

:28:06. > :28:10.with the aftermath will be feeling right now. Let's catch up with the

:28:11. > :28:22.news with an neat that in the newsroom. -- Annita.

:28:23. > :28:24.BBC News has been told that the police have stopped sharing

:28:25. > :28:26.information about the Manchester bombing with officials

:28:27. > :28:29.in the United States, following a series of leaks thought

:28:30. > :28:31.to have come from the American intelligence community.

:28:32. > :28:34.Last night, the New York Times published photographs apparently

:28:35. > :28:48.showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to conceal it.

:28:49. > :28:55.Elaine McI've who was a police officer with the Cheshire force was

:28:56. > :28:58.killed in the bombing, as well as 50-year-old Wendy Fawell from Ottley

:28:59. > :29:02.who also died in the attack. Theresa May is to raise concerns

:29:03. > :29:05.with Donald Trump after evidence from the Manchester Arena bombing

:29:06. > :29:08.was apparently leaked to US media. President Trump is in Brussels

:29:09. > :29:10.today, ahead of a NATO summit, where he's been meeting

:29:11. > :29:13.European Council leader Donald Tusk. The prime minister is expected

:29:14. > :29:16.to raise the issue of the leak Two more men have been

:29:17. > :29:22.arrested in connection One was detained following searches

:29:23. > :29:27.of an address in the Withington area of the city, while another

:29:28. > :29:30.was arrested in a part of Greater Manchester

:29:31. > :29:32.that was not disclosed. The new arrests bring

:29:33. > :29:34.the total number of people The suspect's older brother is among

:29:35. > :29:38.those in custody in Manchester. Two other members of his family have

:29:39. > :29:47.have been detained in Libya. Migration to Britain

:29:48. > :29:49.fell significantly last Net long-term international

:29:50. > :29:54.migration to the UK was estimated to be 248,000 in 2016,

:29:55. > :29:58.a fall of 84,000 compared to 2015. The office for National

:29:59. > :30:00.statistics said the change rise in the number of people

:30:01. > :30:05.leaving the country, mainly EU citizens,

:30:06. > :30:08.and a fall in the number of people

:30:09. > :30:10.arriving in Britain. Despite the fall, net

:30:11. > :30:27.migration is still more than double the government

:30:28. > :30:32.target level. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:30:33. > :30:35.News; more at 10.30. A victory for Manchester United who

:30:36. > :30:39.are this morning celebrating a 2-0 victory over Ajax in

:30:40. > :30:41.the Europa League last night. There was a minute's

:30:42. > :30:43.silence just before that game started, as a mark

:30:44. > :30:50.of respect for those Paul Pogba gave United

:30:51. > :30:54.the lead within the first 20 Henrik Mkhitaryan added

:30:55. > :30:56.the second after the break. It means that United

:30:57. > :30:58.qualify for next Jose Mourinho pay

:30:59. > :31:02.tribute to his players for the way they handled at under

:31:03. > :31:14.such difficult circumstances. Jenson Button says he's the luckiest

:31:15. > :31:18.guy ever to be back in Formula One for the Monaco Grand Prix. The

:31:19. > :31:23.former world champion has been out in practise this morning and

:31:24. > :31:26.replaces Fernando Alonso in McLaren whilst the Spaniard races the Indie

:31:27. > :31:48.500. More coming up later. We can join Jane Hill in Manchester

:31:49. > :31:53.this morning. She's with some of those heroes of Manchester. Amidst

:31:54. > :31:57.very poignant scenes there Jane of the floral tributes in Manchester.

:31:58. > :32:01.Which just keep growing, Joanna. Good morning from St Anne's square

:32:02. > :32:04.which I'm sure anyone who's been following anything that's happened

:32:05. > :32:08.here in Manchester is now aware, St Annes Square very much the focus and

:32:09. > :32:14.people honestly arriving all the time here. I have seen so many

:32:15. > :32:18.people in the last couple of hours come here to lay flowers, to leave

:32:19. > :32:31.tributes, to read the many, many messages that are here.

:32:32. > :32:37.People are laying flowers, people of all ages, all colours, representing

:32:38. > :32:42.the real demographic here of Manchester. Let's talk to three

:32:43. > :32:45.people with strong ties to the city who're very actively involved in

:32:46. > :32:50.everything that is going on here in the wake of the attack at the

:32:51. > :32:54.Manchester Arena. Welcome to Syma Iqbal, a GP here in Manchester, you

:32:55. > :33:00.have worked here for over 12 years I think as a GP. Samantha Barber, born

:33:01. > :33:03.and bred Manchester, you run your own tattoo business and I know

:33:04. > :33:07.you're setting up a fund-raising initiative that's going to take

:33:08. > :33:13.place this weekend to accept some of those who've been affected, I'll ask

:33:14. > :33:17.you about that in a momenten and Mollie Rylance, another local. I'll

:33:18. > :33:22.start with you Molly because you were actually at the gig on Monday

:33:23. > :33:27.night. Yes. We got out and it was like a minute after it, it all just

:33:28. > :33:32.blew up. I grabbed my friend and the main thought was to run and get out

:33:33. > :33:36.as soon as we could. Yes, it was madness, terrifying. How have you

:33:37. > :33:39.and your friend reflected on that since then and the fact that

:33:40. > :33:43.mercifully you are here with us you're fine, but what have you been

:33:44. > :33:48.saying to each other? We have been each other's support, if we are

:33:49. > :33:53.having a down time, we'll speak to each other about the experience and

:33:54. > :33:59.how it's changed us for the better, to kind of grab life by the horns

:34:00. > :34:03.and do what we can when we can. Syma, you are a GP, I'm curious what

:34:04. > :34:06.people have been saying to you because you are still working and

:34:07. > :34:11.have come out to speak to us. What are some of your patients been

:34:12. > :34:15.saying? I was just going to add to that to say if you have been

:34:16. > :34:20.affected by that, go to your GP, we are here to help. On Tuesday morning

:34:21. > :34:25.when I went into work, it was quite normal, very busy in the morning, a

:34:26. > :34:28.sombre quiet atmosphere and patients don't normally talk about news

:34:29. > :34:31.events, but on that morning, patients were coming in and

:34:32. > :34:35.commenting and saying how tragic it was and how upset they were about

:34:36. > :34:40.what had happened. That's a first for us really. And your husband, I

:34:41. > :34:45.should add, is a surgeon. He is, yes. And he went in overnight? He

:34:46. > :34:47.did. Like other doctors, colleagues, on the Monday night we were

:34:48. > :34:52.following the events as they were happened. I was at Victoria train

:34:53. > :34:56.station at 10, I dropped a friend off, by the time I got home and

:34:57. > :35:00.looked at my phone, I was reading the stories about the attack, it was

:35:01. > :35:05.almost surreal. So you missed it by half an hour? Yes, I had the

:35:06. > :35:09.thoughts of, what if I stayed with my friend if I chatted a bit longer,

:35:10. > :35:13.could I have helped other victims. All sorts goes through your head. I

:35:14. > :35:18.followed social media. My husband went in, as did his colleagues at

:35:19. > :35:22.3am, I saw him 12 hours later, he was very quiet and you know, being

:35:23. > :35:26.doctors and medics, you are trained to deal with difficult situations

:35:27. > :35:29.but when it's on such a large scale and when the victims are children,

:35:30. > :35:33.and being parents as well, it's very difficult, you know, to come to

:35:34. > :35:38.terms with that. You have two small children yourself? Yes, two boys. Do

:35:39. > :35:41.they ask you questions? Yes. On the Tuesday morning I felt like I should

:35:42. > :35:44.say something to my ten-year-old because going to school I didn't

:35:45. > :35:48.want him to not know anything but it's such a difficult strange

:35:49. > :35:53.conversation to have you know. At work I'll talk about breaking bad

:35:54. > :35:57.diagnosese but at home to say to him, I said there are good people

:35:58. > :36:02.and bad people in this world and a very bad person has, you know, set

:36:03. > :36:06.up a bomb. We have been to the arena many times so he knew where I was

:36:07. > :36:11.talking about and children at school might be talking about it but

:36:12. > :36:17.Manchester, you know people in Manchester are strong and we'll bet

:36:18. > :36:19.through this -- get through this. At school they played clips from

:36:20. > :36:23.Newsround to help the children and had a discussion about it in class.

:36:24. > :36:31.I've asked him again this morning to probe to see how he's doing and he

:36:32. > :36:35.seems to be doing well. He is still a bit young to tons full scape of

:36:36. > :36:39.what happened. The resilience and coming together of the community on

:36:40. > :36:43.Monday evening, sometimes people say what are the Muslims doing, we are

:36:44. > :36:49.doing what everyone else is doing, we were there on Monday, ferrying

:36:50. > :36:53.people in taxis, opening doors, providing food and water. We are

:36:54. > :36:57.Manchester, I'm a proud Mancunian and it's such a diverse resilient

:36:58. > :37:00.city and we have been here before after the IRA incident and we have

:37:01. > :37:05.rebuilt ourselves and we can do it again definitely.

:37:06. > :37:11.Samantha, what you are going to be organising this weekend is part of

:37:12. > :37:15.that. You are going to raise money through your profession as a tattoo

:37:16. > :37:26.artist. Explain what you are going to do? I have reached out to a few

:37:27. > :37:31.others, to raise money for the Manchester charity. We are going to

:37:32. > :37:34.sign money straight over to help the victim's families. And people

:37:35. > :37:39.assuming they want to and they are brave enough, I'm sure they can

:37:40. > :37:45.donate ?50 anyway, but you can give the tattoo for that and you and your

:37:46. > :37:50.colleagues will, engrave, it's not the right word but will tattoo the

:37:51. > :37:56.B, lots of people have drawn a B on it and it's a real symbol of Bs from

:37:57. > :38:00.people in Manchester? A lot of people are using it through a symbol

:38:01. > :38:03.of strength and we have got a lot of family members of some of the

:38:04. > :38:07.victims coming forward who want it as a memorial tattoo now and

:38:08. > :38:11.paramedics and health workers who've been on scene who were there in the

:38:12. > :38:16.aftermath who also want to come together and get their too too done.

:38:17. > :38:20.And Molly you've just had it done so it's all covered up, you have to

:38:21. > :38:24.allow it time to heel but it's on your leg. Did you have any doubts

:38:25. > :38:28.about that, why did you want to get that done? No doubts. I wanted it

:38:29. > :38:32.to, not to remember what happened but to remember how resilient we are

:38:33. > :38:36.as a community and how everybody stood together and said that it's

:38:37. > :38:40.not going to break us. So for you it's a positive thing. Someone might

:38:41. > :38:46.wanting might think they would worry a few years down the line you might

:38:47. > :38:51.have more negative contagions? No, not at all -- connotations. No, not

:38:52. > :39:00.at all, I'll think about the positive things. And Syma, that

:39:01. > :39:04.phrase can be a cliche, "everybody coming together" but you are saying

:39:05. > :39:07.from your experience and your husband's, that it's genuine, it's

:39:08. > :39:12.continuing to happen? It is, you know. The interfaith vigils.

:39:13. > :39:15.Actions, it's not just a cliche but it's actions of people that have

:39:16. > :39:17.shown that we have come together as a community and we'll grieve

:39:18. > :39:21.together but rebuild the city together as well.

:39:22. > :39:24.Really good to talk to you, thank you so much for coming particularly

:39:25. > :39:28.because I know you have got to go back to work so really great for you

:39:29. > :39:33.to talk to us and Samantha and Molly, thank you very much indeed,

:39:34. > :39:37.thanks so much for being with us. Joanna, much more from here

:39:38. > :39:43.throughout the day. Of course, we are leading up to the nationwide two

:39:44. > :39:47.minutes' silence at 11 o'clock to remember the scores and scores of

:39:48. > :39:51.people affected here in Manchester by what happened on Monday night.

:39:52. > :39:57.For now, back to you, Joanna. Thank you very much. As we see the

:39:58. > :40:03.floral tributes, we can tell you, 19 victims have now been named. Amongst

:40:04. > :40:06.them a police officer, an inseparable young couple, a true

:40:07. > :40:11.gentleman, a bubbly receptionist, the woman who died shielding her

:40:12. > :40:16.niece from the blast, the Polish couple who died picking up their

:40:17. > :40:21.daughters. Tributes continue to be paid to those killed at the

:40:22. > :40:25.Manchester Arena. The mum of Olivia Campbell, one of the victims named

:40:26. > :40:27.so far, described as a precious gorgeous girl spoke at a vigil in

:40:28. > :40:31.Bury, thanking the community for trying to find her daughter and she

:40:32. > :41:09.urged them not to let the attack beat them. This is what she said.

:41:10. > :41:17.From myself, Olivia's dad and step children who aren't here. Thank you,

:41:18. > :41:23.thank you for giving support, this is such a hard time for us. I had to

:41:24. > :41:27.come. I didn't know what to do. I don't know where to be. I don't know

:41:28. > :41:42.what to do. I just knew. Something told me I had to come and be here. I

:41:43. > :41:47.can see Olivia's friends there. As a family, we are united, we are

:41:48. > :41:53.standing strong. I ask her friends, strangers, relative, to do the same.

:41:54. > :41:56.Please stay together, don't let this beat any of us, please. Don't let my

:41:57. > :42:15.daughter be a victim. Well said... That's the mum of Olivia Campbell

:42:16. > :42:19.talking last night. In a moment we'll speak to a former frontline

:42:20. > :42:24.police officer about the impact on those who're dealing with the

:42:25. > :42:29.aftermath of the attack. Just under 1,000 servicemen and women have been

:42:30. > :42:32.deployed as part of Operation Tempera, the Government's plan to

:42:33. > :42:36.put soldiers on the streets to support police with the security

:42:37. > :42:40.threat raised to critical. The Home Secretary has said that 3,800 extra

:42:41. > :42:44.troops are available to patrol the streets. They're providing

:42:45. > :42:48.much-needed support to police but it's an extraordinary measure. It

:42:49. > :42:52.was last used more than a decade ago, raising questions about what

:42:53. > :42:57.more the police need in the fight against terror. We can talk to Chris

:42:58. > :43:00.Hobbs, a former Detective Sergeant in the Metropolitan Police Special

:43:01. > :43:07.Branch for Counter-Terrorism and Emily Winter, a Counter-Terrorism

:43:08. > :43:12.research fellow at a ethink-tank and Tim Cross, a former senior commander

:43:13. > :43:16.in the British army. Thank you for joining us. Chris Hobbs, what do the

:43:17. > :43:21.police need in terms of resources? No doubt it's been a difficult few

:43:22. > :43:25.years for the police. They've lost 21,000 officers, 26,000 support

:43:26. > :43:29.staff and policing has suffered. Armed police dropped by 130 1300

:43:30. > :43:32.during this period, they are now being brought up to speed. Certain

:43:33. > :43:39.things are improving and there's huge concern. One of the concerns is

:43:40. > :43:42.it's not just armed police or counterterrorist officers, it's

:43:43. > :43:48.about police being in the community. These communities, for example, that

:43:49. > :43:52.may produce Jihadists and terrorist groups, at the moment community

:43:53. > :43:59.policing is suffering as a result of Government cuts. We then move on to

:44:00. > :44:06.intelligence. Intelligence from is incredible. You need to be police

:44:07. > :44:09.out there and need a good intelligence flow. That's suffered

:44:10. > :44:15.incredibly since 2010. That's something that needs to be put right

:44:16. > :44:20.urgently. Emily, do you think the reduction in police numbers has had

:44:21. > :44:23.an impact? Yes. I mean I think the point raised about community

:44:24. > :44:28.policing in particular when we look at it from countering violent

:44:29. > :44:32.extremism perspective, or look at it from that point of view, it's trying

:44:33. > :44:36.to have sources that are trusted within the communes which often is

:44:37. > :44:43.fulfilled by the community policing mechanisms. When we talk about CVE

:44:44. > :44:45.generally globally, we emphasise the significance of community policing,

:44:46. > :44:54.so hearing there is been a degrease in that particular area is obviously

:44:55. > :45:00.a concern. Tim Cross, the army are now going out on the streets to

:45:01. > :45:03.bolster the police. Is that as much about reassurance as actually

:45:04. > :45:08.protection? Yes, it's certainly a part of that. I would say first of

:45:09. > :45:12.all the army being deployed falls under the umbrella of the military

:45:13. > :45:15.assistance to the civil power. There's another sort of military

:45:16. > :45:19.assistance to the civil authority which covers things like

:45:20. > :45:24.foot-and-mouth and floods and so on. The civil power is rarely used, it's

:45:25. > :45:28.basically what we used for Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s in

:45:29. > :45:35.particular. It's very unusual and it's really I suppose a mixture of

:45:36. > :45:38.reassurance, but also deterrents to put off any subsequent bomber who

:45:39. > :45:41.may decide or may have thought they would like to have a crack at

:45:42. > :45:46.something. But there is a danger of course that the soldiers themselves

:45:47. > :45:51.can become targets and I'm not really convinced how the British

:45:52. > :45:55.public feel having soldiers on the street. Historically, Britain's

:45:56. > :45:59.never played this idea of a third force or using its military like

:46:00. > :46:04.many other nations do and I personally believe that's right. I

:46:05. > :46:08.am sure the Government took this decision reluctantly, not sure how

:46:09. > :46:11.long it will two on for, I suspect not for too long and it's unusual,

:46:12. > :46:21.not used for at least a decade. Yes, Chris, I think they were last

:46:22. > :46:27.applied at 2007 when there was a threat to planes at Heathrow. The it

:46:28. > :46:31.was 2003 actually, and I was there. There is no resentment from the

:46:32. > :46:35.police with the army being there. At times there was a fear that you

:46:36. > :46:39.could get a missile shooting down a plane, that is why they were there.

:46:40. > :46:42.It was very incongruous seeing tanks patrolling around. It is a good

:46:43. > :46:45.relationship between the police and the military, but I think certainly

:46:46. > :46:50.in terms of this particular scenario that we have at the moment, really

:46:51. > :46:53.the soldiers are incredibly professional, we have the best Armed

:46:54. > :46:56.Forces in the world, but really they should be police out there. We

:46:57. > :46:59.should have sufficient policing resources. At this moment in time,

:47:00. > :47:05.we shouldn't really need to deploy the Army. As just suggested,

:47:06. > :47:08.especially if they are patrolling alone, they could be put in some

:47:09. > :47:14.very difficult situations, if someone as we have seen, someone

:47:15. > :47:18.waving a knife around, soldiers, no police, how does he react? It

:47:19. > :47:24.doesn't have the same weaponry, the resources that a police officer can:

:47:25. > :47:30.com he has verbal resources, CS gas, a Taser. Just getting some breaking

:47:31. > :47:35.news, the police and the army responding to a call at a college in

:47:36. > :47:39.Trafford, several roads are closed, if you know the local area,

:47:40. > :47:44.Mancunian way, Lynn B Street and Jackson Street. Officers are in

:47:45. > :47:49.attendance and the situation is being assessed. The police say that

:47:50. > :47:54.the Army is on its way to a college in the Trafford area and Greater

:47:55. > :48:00.Manchester, obviously we don't know any further details about what

:48:01. > :48:06.exactly this call is focused on, why they are responding. But police and

:48:07. > :48:13.army heading to the scene. Chris Como what do you make of the extra

:48:14. > :48:15.dimension of the Army being involved in this operation? It could be

:48:16. > :48:21.something to do with a device, perhaps, so you might have for

:48:22. > :48:27.example bomb disposal unit. Generally speaking, you would have

:48:28. > :48:33.to say most scenarios that would occur with someone who is armed, and

:48:34. > :48:36.active shooter, the Blues normally are well-trained enough to respond

:48:37. > :48:42.to it so it will be very interesting to see what part the Army plays when

:48:43. > :48:45.we eventually know what is going on. Amelie, how do you see the Simao

:48:46. > :48:51.says we are currently seeing between the two forces? Yes, from what I had

:48:52. > :48:59.originally understood, the need to have the Army involved to a limited

:49:00. > :49:07.degree was to protect certain parts of the country. Obviously it links

:49:08. > :49:14.back to the concerned that maybe there are not enough police on the

:49:15. > :49:26.streets. But reports of potentially the Army to be engaged in saturation

:49:27. > :49:30.on the streets is quite unusual. Tim, part of your career was spent

:49:31. > :49:36.in Northern Ireland. At a practical level, what is it like when the army

:49:37. > :49:41.working alongside the police? It is a very strong relationship. I

:49:42. > :49:44.commanded a bomb relationship in the 70s. In those days, we were very

:49:45. > :49:51.firmly under the command of the police. We were there supporting

:49:52. > :49:56.them, not the other way round. The Gold Command headquarters running

:49:57. > :50:00.all of this will be commanded by senior officers, with military

:50:01. > :50:04.assisting alongside. What Chris is putting his finger on and you are

:50:05. > :50:08.gathering around as the rules of engagement for the Army, which is a

:50:09. > :50:12.very important part of this. Obviously, the military generally

:50:13. > :50:17.speaking art preparing for high-intensity war fighting

:50:18. > :50:20.operations but we do a lot of training for peace operations,

:50:21. > :50:23.noncombative training and so on. Most of our soldiers today will have

:50:24. > :50:26.had relatively little experience of that because over the last ten to 15

:50:27. > :50:31.years clearly most of our boys and girls have been out in Iraq and

:50:32. > :50:33.Afghanistan. Northern Ireland is a long time ago. There will not be

:50:34. > :50:37.many people around who have served in that environment. The soldiers

:50:38. > :50:42.will be delighted to be involved in this. Like everybody else, to put it

:50:43. > :50:46.politely, they are pretty angry about what this guy has done and the

:50:47. > :50:50.potential for further devastation from suicide bombers and so on. So

:50:51. > :50:53.they will be delighted to be involved but they are very firmly

:50:54. > :50:57.under the command of the police, they enjoy working with the police,

:50:58. > :51:01.very strong relationships with them, but the issue of the roles of

:51:02. > :51:04.engagement, who commands on a particular incident, how people

:51:05. > :51:07.react to that, which is why, going back to the earlier point, generally

:51:08. > :51:11.speaking the military will be used to guard the key points, in order to

:51:12. > :51:15.release the police so they can go and deal with the sorts of

:51:16. > :51:19.incidents. I suspect the military are responding to what you have just

:51:20. > :51:23.been responding is perhaps bomb disposal teams, although the police

:51:24. > :51:26.have very capable team is now, or maybe some special forces who are

:51:27. > :51:33.there to help support the armed police. MLE, the Army are drafted in

:51:34. > :51:41.because of the threat level being raised to critical, how will that be

:51:42. > :51:45.assessed -- Emily. I think we will have to see what happens over the

:51:46. > :51:50.next few days with this ongoing operation, which clearly is still

:51:51. > :51:53.being carried out. Even this morning they said and other controlled

:51:54. > :51:59.explosion had taken place within the Manchester area. I think we will

:52:00. > :52:05.have to see how that unfolds. I mean, more broadly, moving forwards,

:52:06. > :52:11.the concern is to be able to resume business as normal, and to restore

:52:12. > :52:15.confidence among people, that obviously their security is as

:52:16. > :52:19.assured as it possibly can be, as best as possible. Thank you all very

:52:20. > :52:24.much. Just want to tell you that we are getting reports that police and

:52:25. > :52:32.the Army are heading to Trafford College, after a call. Roads around

:52:33. > :52:35.the area have been closed. Police officers are in attendance and the

:52:36. > :52:42.Army on their way to the college in the Trafford area. No further

:52:43. > :52:48.clarity at the moment about exactly what the incident is that has led to

:52:49. > :52:57.the police and army heading to Trafford College.

:52:58. > :52:59.Chief Superintendent John Sutherland joined the Met Police in 1992.

:53:00. > :53:02.He rose quickly through the ranks with some career-defining moments

:53:03. > :53:03.including hostage negotiation and rescuing victims

:53:04. > :53:09.But years of front line policing, witnessing the trauma and mental

:53:10. > :53:15.In early 2013, John suffered a major breakdown and battle

:53:16. > :53:22.He knows all too well how those officers who dealt

:53:23. > :53:25.with the aftermath of the Manchester bombings may respond and the kind

:53:26. > :53:30.He's written a book about the realities

:53:31. > :53:39.John Sutherland, thank you very much for coming in. So what were your

:53:40. > :53:42.thoughts when you heard about Manchester, and how those on the

:53:43. > :53:46.front line will have been coping, what they will have been seeing, how

:53:47. > :53:52.they will have had to respond to that? My first thoughts are not just

:53:53. > :53:57.as a police officer, but as a husband and a dad. I've got three

:53:58. > :54:03.daughters, the youngest of them is eight, and they could have been

:54:04. > :54:09.there. And so the response is a very human one, just desperate sadness.

:54:10. > :54:16.But, at the same time, extraordinary pride in Mike colleagues from

:54:17. > :54:20.Greater Manchester Police and British Transport Police, who

:54:21. > :54:22.without hesitation, without a second thought, just plunged straight into

:54:23. > :54:29.do what they could for whoever they could. It is an extraordinary thing.

:54:30. > :54:33.I said you had a lengthy career in the police, and it took its toll.

:54:34. > :54:37.You suffered mental health difficulties, you left the force.

:54:38. > :54:39.When was the first time that you actually clocked that the work you

:54:40. > :54:45.were doing was having an impact on you? Probably about four years ago.

:54:46. > :54:48.I am actually still serving, although I am coming towards the end

:54:49. > :54:54.of my time, as a consequence of my illness. I often talked to friends

:54:55. > :55:00.and colleagues about the painful privilege of policing, which is to

:55:01. > :55:02.be called into the hurting places, where almost by definition something

:55:03. > :55:10.has gone desperately wrong for someone. And I think that perhaps as

:55:11. > :55:15.a society, even as the police service itself, we have not properly

:55:16. > :55:20.understood yet the compound impact on police officers or indeed other

:55:21. > :55:23.emergency services personnel, but policing is what I know. I don't

:55:24. > :55:28.think we have properly understood the impact on them of the repeated

:55:29. > :55:34.exposure to really extreme trauma. So is it effectively you could deal

:55:35. > :55:37.with it, deal with it, go into situations that were very difficult

:55:38. > :55:40.but somehow have a veneer that would mean you could somehow go in and

:55:41. > :55:46.out, and then suddenly you reach a limit? What was it like, was there a

:55:47. > :55:51.particular moment? Mental health is a very complicated thing, and it is

:55:52. > :55:57.difficult to know exactly. What I do know is that for more than 20 years,

:55:58. > :56:00.I didn't hesitate. I had the privilege of being the borough

:56:01. > :56:05.commander for Southwark, I was a hostage negotiator, I love my job,

:56:06. > :56:08.still love my job, I still love policing. But I think what I have

:56:09. > :56:14.realise now is that over a period of time, the general wear and tear of

:56:15. > :56:17.policing caught up with me, and alongside that general wear and

:56:18. > :56:22.tear, I think every police officer will have stories to tell about

:56:23. > :56:26.places they have been and faces they have seen, things that leave a

:56:27. > :56:30.deeper mark than anything else. And in my case, and it doesn't happen in

:56:31. > :56:34.every case, but in my case it just got too much. You said right at the

:56:35. > :56:39.beginning that you responded not just as a police officer, but as a

:56:40. > :56:43.father. And all across the country, that is exactly how people are

:56:44. > :56:48.responding, as parents, just in a very human, empathetic way. Having

:56:49. > :56:56.experienced what you have experienced, what would you say

:56:57. > :57:00.about how to approach a situation where there is potentially a

:57:01. > :57:03.traumatic effect that you might not realise at the time? I guess in my

:57:04. > :57:08.limited experience I would offer the same advice to families as I would

:57:09. > :57:14.to police colleagues, which is not to bottle it up. We would be somehow

:57:15. > :57:17.less than human if we weren't affected by these things and

:57:18. > :57:23.affected by them deeply. The old phrase it's good to talk is as true

:57:24. > :57:29.now as it ever has been. What is it like in the police when you need to

:57:30. > :57:34.put your hand up about that? Was it easy, how was your call for help

:57:35. > :57:38.regarded? It is getting better. My personal experience, I have to say,

:57:39. > :57:42.has been extraordinary. The support, the love even, I have been shown by

:57:43. > :57:47.colleagues, as well as friends, has been extraordinary. Was that

:57:48. > :57:55.universal, whether people who didn't understand? I dare say there were,

:57:56. > :58:02.but I have to say the support I have heard has been exceptional. I think

:58:03. > :58:05.police officers understand instinctively when any of us

:58:06. > :58:10.struggle. And I think we are getting better at talking about it. We're

:58:11. > :58:16.not there yet but we are getting better at it. Thank you very much

:58:17. > :58:23.indeed, John Sutherland. John's book is out tomorrow. 19 victims of the

:58:24. > :58:26.Manchester bombing have now been named.

:58:27. > :58:29.We can cross to Jane Hill in St Anne's Square in Manchester

:58:30. > :58:31.now, just ahead of the minute's silence for the victims

:58:32. > :58:33.of Monday's terror attack, which will take place

:58:34. > :58:48.Hello and good morning from Manchester. You join me in St Anne's

:58:49. > :58:49.Square, less than