:00:00. > :00:00.British Airways chief executive says he's sorry about the disruption
:00:07. > :00:09.caused by a global computer meltdown but says he won't resign.
:00:10. > :00:11.Now on BBC News it's time for the Big Debate
:00:12. > :00:14.Good morning and welcome to Dunstable in Bedfordshire.
:00:15. > :00:21.With just over a week to go till the general election,
:00:22. > :00:24.we're here to look at some of the key issues that may influence
:00:25. > :00:31.I'm very worried about security in the country and I don't trust any
:00:32. > :00:36.Hello, I am Nasir, I'm a GP in Dunstable, and I'm very concerned
:00:37. > :00:40.I am Helena from Luton, I run a small business.
:00:41. > :00:42.I am absolutely fed up with the immature
:00:43. > :00:49.It is undermining your credibility, please get on with your jobs.
:00:50. > :00:52.Hi, I am Mark from Luton, I am worried about affordable
:00:53. > :00:55.housing for local people and building on all
:00:56. > :01:11.I'm not happy with the choices we have for next Prime Minister.
:01:12. > :01:13.Jeremy Corbyn - weak leader, weak opposition.
:01:14. > :01:15.Theresa May - maybe here, maybe there, maybe nowhere.
:01:16. > :01:18.If she is not prepared to stand on a platform and take questions
:01:19. > :01:21.from her peers and the audience, then she doesn't deserve our votes.
:01:22. > :01:23.I have got a progressive option in Scotland.
:01:24. > :02:00.We're live until 11am this morning with an audience of 120 people,
:02:01. > :02:02.and live on stage at the Grove Theatre.
:02:03. > :02:04.You can see the empty auditorium behind us.
:02:05. > :02:07.We wanted to get everybody together so We've put everybody on stage.
:02:08. > :02:10.It was 41 days ago that Theresa May surpriseD everyone by announcing
:02:11. > :02:15.Campaigning was suspended last week, as you know, after Manchester's
:02:16. > :02:17.devastating terrorist attack which killed 22 people.
:02:18. > :02:19.Since then, security has dominated the agenda,
:02:20. > :02:21.with Labour and the Conservatives at the weekend both
:02:22. > :02:22.promising to bolster counterterrorism measures.
:02:23. > :02:26.I want to get a snapshot view really from some of the voters here.
:02:27. > :02:28.In light of what happened in Manchester one week
:02:29. > :02:30.ago, is anybody going to change their vote?
:02:31. > :02:34.My name is Charlie, I am from Luton, I run a
:02:35. > :02:38.I have lived in England for 30 years and the last
:02:39. > :02:41.Following the Manchester bombing and the subsequent talks between the
:02:42. > :02:46.parties, I am looking at, I don't want to carry
:02:47. > :02:50.bombing Middle Eastern countries and theN trying to defend ourselves
:02:51. > :02:53.It is plainly not working and Jeremy Corbyn is
:02:54. > :02:57.me that there could be another way and I'm interested in what Labour
:02:58. > :03:08.I am Derek, on the basis of at least 10,000 new police officers, Jeremy
:03:09. > :03:13.Corbyn has promised, but where is this money coming from?
:03:14. > :03:15.Diane Abbott coming out with figures all over the place.
:03:16. > :03:18.It is a good idea but are the figures going to change
:03:19. > :03:32.Dominic Raab for the Conservatives, former Justice minister. Your Home
:03:33. > :03:36.Secretary seem to suggest an interview yesterday that this
:03:37. > :03:39.country would face greater risk of terrorist atrocity in Jeremy Corbyn
:03:40. > :03:46.was Prime Minister. Do you agree with? I think that is true. Why?
:03:47. > :03:51.There are a range of things that we said we would do. Increased
:03:52. > :03:53.counterterrorism police, bring more than 200 into the
:03:54. > :03:57.counterintelligence agency is a more vigorous pacing and monitoring of
:03:58. > :04:00.the online space and also prosecuting UK-based Djabi is that
:04:01. > :04:05.go out into the battlefield abroad. I think leadership matters and
:04:06. > :04:10.bluntly as I can and this kind of the as I can, I do not think if you
:04:11. > :04:13.compare the leadership Theresa May offers, five years as Home
:04:14. > :04:16.Secretary, can the grass defence of our security with Jeremy Corbyn, who
:04:17. > :04:25.has had a political lifetime supporting the IRA. In 2009 he
:04:26. > :04:33.described Hezbollah members as his friends. I do not think a man who is
:04:34. > :04:41.event of carers is the man to us against terrorists. Emily Thornberry
:04:42. > :04:45.speaks for the Labour Party. He has been associated in the past but
:04:46. > :04:50.Gerry Adams. That is a problem for his leadership, isn't it? Jeremy
:04:51. > :04:54.Corbyn's approach is a clear one and that is that we need to talk to
:04:55. > :04:59.people when possible. That is in order to find common ground in order
:05:00. > :05:04.to try and find a way forward. Did you accept his associations... Do
:05:05. > :05:08.you accept that his past associations means that he had a
:05:09. > :05:11.problem when it comes to national security? I think for fair minded
:05:12. > :05:16.people that is not true. People know that he was representing a community
:05:17. > :05:22.that had a very high proportion of Irish people. Within the 1980s
:05:23. > :05:26.something had to be done and he was involved in trying to bring people
:05:27. > :05:33.to the table. Look what happened, we got the Good Friday Agreement. Daesh
:05:34. > :05:36.is just a death cult. There is no negotiations with guys like that.
:05:37. > :05:42.When you can find a common purpose, work with people and do not be
:05:43. > :05:47.afraid. Ryan Evans. Community policing is important because those
:05:48. > :05:51.policemen have to use to the ground and can build local community
:05:52. > :05:59.relationships, they have the ear of the local people. -- Diane Evans.
:06:00. > :06:03.Your policy of wanting to ban the Barker, does that help better
:06:04. > :06:05.protect them? Not per se but it is about integration. The problem we
:06:06. > :06:10.have at this debate is that politicians are trying to put
:06:11. > :06:16.forward very simplistic solutions and none exist. This is something
:06:17. > :06:19.that we have to tackle at the ground level and from a security
:06:20. > :06:24.perspective and that the very least make sure that we keep our people
:06:25. > :06:28.safe, we have to tackle it... As a gentleman said, integrating
:06:29. > :06:31.communities better and I am pleased to hear you say that there were some
:06:32. > :06:36.elements of the Muslim community that need to work harder at that. We
:06:37. > :06:38.have to look at immigration as well because under the Labour government
:06:39. > :06:43.we opened up the borders to people with diverse views. The bomb last
:06:44. > :06:48.week was British, born in Manchester. He came here fleeing
:06:49. > :06:54.Colonel Gaddafi. So we should have known that his offspring would have
:06:55. > :06:58.ended up...? The NHS and social care is one of
:06:59. > :07:01.the issues people most care about the of this election and the
:07:02. > :07:06.political parties know that. We have all promised to various degrees of
:07:07. > :07:10.extra funding. When your party was in government with the Conservatives
:07:11. > :07:15.in 2010, you cut ?4.6 billion from social care. How much is that
:07:16. > :07:19.contributed to the current crisis? Undoubtedly. The cuts in social care
:07:20. > :07:22.which were started a number of years ago have contributed to the problems
:07:23. > :07:30.we face today. The question is, what do we do about it? We have said that
:07:31. > :07:34.we need to put a very specific proposal on tax that funds social
:07:35. > :07:39.care and health and that is why we are saying there should be 1p on
:07:40. > :07:42.income tax so that you ring fenced money going into health and social
:07:43. > :07:47.care that is sustainable in the short-term, in other words, the next
:07:48. > :07:51.a dedicated health and social care a dedicated health and social care
:07:52. > :07:57.tax based on national insurance. Everybody is in, everybody benefits.
:07:58. > :08:01.Love, yes or no, the Lib Dems are proposing 1p on income tax, would
:08:02. > :08:11.Yes! Yes!
:08:12. > :08:15.Dominic... You certainly cannot have a solution without money. There
:08:16. > :08:18.might be other things you need to do but without doubt you need the
:08:19. > :08:24.money. Dominic Raab, what about Theresa May's capitulation only
:08:25. > :08:27.social care plan published in a manifesto which she changed a few
:08:28. > :08:34.days later? I would not characterise that as capitulation. How would you
:08:35. > :08:41.characterise it then? About dementia, we will ask millions more
:08:42. > :08:47.over the age of 75. That is happening in the near future. If you
:08:48. > :08:54.can afford to contribute, that is an important principle. There are two
:08:55. > :08:57.safeguards, they cannot have those assets come down A-level where you
:08:58. > :09:08.cannot get ?100,000 to your family. The second safeguard is a cap on...
:09:09. > :09:11.That is what I am asking you. We have said that we will consult on
:09:12. > :09:15.that and the reason is that someone always pays for this. And when
:09:16. > :09:18.people say the state should step in, it is taxpayers who will receive an
:09:19. > :09:23.increase in income tax. I do not think that the Lib Dem plan is
:09:24. > :09:29.liable but I respect that they are trying to tackle it. We are the only
:09:30. > :09:32.ones who have set out a credible financial solvent way of dealing
:09:33. > :09:36.with this issue. Emily has spent her whole response to the gentleman's
:09:37. > :09:43.question not setting up the position of the Labour Party. We are the ones
:09:44. > :09:51.with the costed manifesto, you do not have that. You have no costings
:09:52. > :09:56.in your manifesto at all. Where is the ?8 billion that you claim you
:09:57. > :10:02.are going to put into the NHS? You have not even tried. Let us deal
:10:03. > :10:09.with what the IFS has said. We were the ?8 billion come from for the
:10:10. > :10:12.NHS? We will have real term increases each year, rising to eight
:10:13. > :10:26.billion and the last year. Where will that come from? The whole thing
:10:27. > :10:29.is... I will come back to you, Emily. We have set out a range of
:10:30. > :10:33.tough decisions and that is why we are getting stick about this Winter
:10:34. > :10:43.Fuel Allowance. That will pay for the ?8 billion? You look at the
:10:44. > :10:48.packages on the round. I would expect that overall you have a
:10:49. > :10:52.sensible package on the finances. We are trying to ease the burden on
:10:53. > :10:56.families. So some savings from the Winter Fuel Allowance. I am giving
:10:57. > :11:00.you an illustration of the difficult decisions like telling you that we
:11:01. > :11:03.would not be subsidising free school lunches for well-off parents, we do
:11:04. > :11:08.not think that is a great thing to do, we would rather the money went
:11:09. > :11:13.into teaching and the NHS. We have made the difficult decisions. Does
:11:14. > :11:19.that add up to ?8 billion? You must look at the savings in the round. We
:11:20. > :11:25.are taking tough decisions like... Hang on, we mention the IFS, that is
:11:26. > :11:29.the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies, they have suggested your
:11:30. > :11:32.plans to raise something like ?49 billion in taxes, you have
:11:33. > :11:37.miscalculated and if you think having worked it all out, it will be
:11:38. > :11:42.something like ?41 billion, that is a big shortfall. When you promise
:11:43. > :11:45.people buildings and tens of billions for the NHS and social
:11:46. > :11:51.care, you will not be able to raise it. We have said that they are being
:11:52. > :11:54.very pessimistic about this but we think that our measures will work
:11:55. > :12:02.and we're happy to talk to the NHS about it. Within our manifesto there
:12:03. > :12:06.was room as having underestimated the amount we have raised in taxes.
:12:07. > :12:10.We are happy to talk to them and with our manifesto we would also
:12:11. > :12:13.like the others for budget responsibility, a government body
:12:14. > :12:17.and we said this about our previous manifesto and this one, they will
:12:18. > :12:25.always be fights about this, let the OBR look at our manifesto. -- Office
:12:26. > :12:30.for Budget Responsibility. It is given this as its job and we have
:12:31. > :12:34.said we are happy to engage with the IFS or the OBR but that look at both
:12:35. > :12:40.manifesto is let them see what they have. I am fuel from Aberdeen. I
:12:41. > :12:44.have a disability activist primarily. There is all of this
:12:45. > :12:51.talk, you are all talking about numbers and money and there is a
:12:52. > :12:56.notion of suffering under the act. Oxford University just released
:12:57. > :13:01.research saying that in 2015 alone in England and Wales alone, there
:13:02. > :13:06.were 30,000 excess deaths caused by cuts to health and social care. Tens
:13:07. > :13:12.of thousands of disabled and sick people are dying every year. We are
:13:13. > :13:19.digging, there have been hundreds of suicides. I spent 48 hours after the
:13:20. > :13:24.last general election trying to talk people out of killing themselves and
:13:25. > :13:34.I did not always succeed. People are dying here. And nobody cares. Let
:13:35. > :13:38.the Conservatives' Dominic Raab respond to that. There are plenty of
:13:39. > :13:45.heartbreaking stories and no one could fail to be moved by that. We
:13:46. > :13:51.have put 11,000 more doctors into the NHS, 12,000 more nurses. Hold
:13:52. > :13:54.on. We have a renewed focus on mental health and also trying to
:13:55. > :13:58.make sure we take the pressure off of big cost Little Stanney
:13:59. > :14:02.manifesto. But the real truth is that the money must come from
:14:03. > :14:07.somewhere and it is very easy... Let him respond. It is very easy and I
:14:08. > :14:11.can think of lots of things that I would like to avoid making difficult
:14:12. > :14:15.decisions on and on lots of errors by the NHS and schools where I would
:14:16. > :14:18.like to put more money in but unless you have a strong economy creating
:14:19. > :14:23.the revenue, it is a childless wish list. We have tried her best to get
:14:24. > :14:26.the balance right between responsible public finances and
:14:27. > :14:30.targeting those crucial errors that you have discussed. So you choose to
:14:31. > :14:33.sacrifice tens of thousands of disabled people for the sake of
:14:34. > :14:38.that. This is the second richest country and the world. There is a
:14:39. > :14:44.choice that people make in Scotland, for example, we have a block grant
:14:45. > :14:49.and they still manage to create a health service which functions. They
:14:50. > :14:54.still managed to create a care service that functions. And you are
:14:55. > :14:58.choosing to sacrifice others. Why would you scrap HS2 and give ?5
:14:59. > :15:03.billion to the disabled instead? It will only benefit your rich friends
:15:04. > :15:09.and help you get to read ten minutes quicker. This morning we have talked
:15:10. > :15:13.about security, the NHS and social care. As you know, it is almost one
:15:14. > :15:17.year since the UK voted to leave the EU. Setting up the chain of events
:15:18. > :15:21.which have led to this general election. Talk about Brexit
:15:22. > :15:26.dominated the early part of the campaign.
:15:27. > :15:32.Let me ask all of you, we would you find the money to pay our Brexit
:15:33. > :15:35.liabilities? Brexit costs the country, we will be poor as a
:15:36. > :15:42.country every week and if we are left without a deal, it will be
:15:43. > :15:46.catastrophic for some sectors of our economy. So, here, in this part of
:15:47. > :15:50.the world, if we found ourselves without a deal and had tariffs on
:15:51. > :15:57.all of the goods going back and forward, making those vehicles, the
:15:58. > :16:01.impact would be disastrous. How would you pay our Brexit
:16:02. > :16:08.liabilities? The Brexit liabilities compared to the overall cost of
:16:09. > :16:13.Brexit are a relatively small part. I am just asking you where you would
:16:14. > :16:18.get them for, had you can any thought into it? What we would like
:16:19. > :16:23.to do is, we believe that the chance of getting a deal which is better
:16:24. > :16:25.than our current position is as near to the role as makes no difference
:16:26. > :16:32.and therefore the people should decide. OK, I understand, you will
:16:33. > :16:37.not answer that question. Go ahead. If we get no Deal, we are back to
:16:38. > :16:41.trading on world organisation terms and if you are talking about
:16:42. > :16:49.tariffs, that is a windfall of ?12 billion to the Treasury. We are
:16:50. > :16:51.quids in. You are assuming that it will collapse, even the Financial
:16:52. > :16:54.Times this week has had to report that investment into the UK has not
:16:55. > :16:59.fallen as a result of Brexit. This scaremongering must stop. People
:17:00. > :17:02.voted and it is about time the Lib Dems got behind it. A ?12 billion
:17:03. > :17:11.windfall to the Treasury, I am tell you. John, the SNP. I have spent
:17:12. > :17:15.some time in Germany because I sit on the House of Commons Select
:17:16. > :17:19.Committee and we are doing a report on Brexit. The things concerning the
:17:20. > :17:22.German politicians is how chaotic the Conservative government
:17:23. > :17:26.ministers here are in terms of preparation. David Davis turned up
:17:27. > :17:30.to a House of Commons Select Committee and he said he had not
:17:31. > :17:35.priced the cost of leaving for the UK. I think we're going to get a
:17:36. > :17:40.tough Brexit deal, terrible for the UK and the reason that Theresa May
:17:41. > :17:42.is holding this election now is because she wants to silence
:17:43. > :17:46.opposition because she knows that when we know the details of Brexit
:17:47. > :17:53.people will be furious. A quick word about immigration. Suzanne Evans,
:17:54. > :17:56.pipe -- due to want to bring net migration down to zero over the next
:17:57. > :18:02.five years, when one person need you will let one hand. That is not how
:18:03. > :18:07.it works. It is about balanced immigration, zero net immigration to
:18:08. > :18:12.give our country time to recover and our public services time to recover.
:18:13. > :18:14.So over a period of five years, we have approximately the same number
:18:15. > :18:19.of fee will be leaving the country and that is between about 250000 and
:18:20. > :18:23.300,000 every year and the same coming in. We will still invite to
:18:24. > :18:26.Britain around about 300,000 people each year and we will choose the
:18:27. > :18:29.brightest and the best and the people but the skills that we need
:18:30. > :18:33.and the people who will contribute to the economy and to look after
:18:34. > :18:37.themselves. The kind of thing that Labour politician Frank Field has
:18:38. > :18:43.spoken about four years. If Britain need surgeons, we will bring them
:18:44. > :18:48.on. The problem that we have at the moment... You will not have to wait
:18:49. > :18:54.for someone to emigrate before you allow a foreign surgeon in? It is
:18:55. > :19:02.rolling over a five-year period. What about restaurant and bar staff?
:19:03. > :19:07.What we have discovered... These are jobs that British people can do. Why
:19:08. > :19:14.are they not doing them now? Because they are being undercut in terms of
:19:15. > :19:18.wages. Excuse me, can I finish? In Scotland, we have a population that
:19:19. > :19:24.is full of immigrants, we need immigration. Michael Gove said that
:19:25. > :19:28.one of the advantages of Britain. Was that we would be able to set our
:19:29. > :19:40.own immigration policy, not heard much about that since! The latest
:19:41. > :19:44.net migration figures are 248,000, is that the right level for the Lib
:19:45. > :19:49.Dems? It does not target the point, it is what the economy needs and the
:19:50. > :19:56.economy needs doctors, nurses, people working in a horticultural
:19:57. > :20:01.sector. Good morning, Whitehead. I am Mary Ann and retired and chief
:20:02. > :20:05.childminder to the family. I just want to say, if things are improving
:20:06. > :20:15.so much under the Tories, why are so many people using food banks? Go on,
:20:16. > :20:21.Mark. Like you have said about food banks, also, like you said, you are
:20:22. > :20:28.the main child carer. This is what people have to do. If it was not for
:20:29. > :20:31.our parents, my children's grandparents, we would not be
:20:32. > :20:38.surviving. If it was not for them, their help, you know, you look after
:20:39. > :20:47.your kids kids, so you are looking after their grandchildren. So, you
:20:48. > :20:51.know, this is the cost. Dominic Raab, people think that it is really
:20:52. > :20:54.tough under the Conservatives. In terms of the food bank issue and I
:20:55. > :20:58.have studied data from the Trussell Trust, what they find is that the
:20:59. > :21:02.typical user is not someone by wishing in poverty at some of the
:21:03. > :21:10.cash flow problem. No, it is true. That is what the Trussell Trust is
:21:11. > :21:16.seeing and its data. The Trussell Trust would be outraged by you
:21:17. > :21:19.telling us that. A lot of people on low and middle incomes are feeling
:21:20. > :21:21.the pinch so we have taken 4 million of the lowest paid out of income tax
:21:22. > :21:28.altogether. ?1000 each year they get altogether. ?1000 each year they get
:21:29. > :21:32.more than 2010. And we are trying to get the economy that creates the
:21:33. > :21:36.jobs and wages and make sure that people get more of the money. To
:21:37. > :21:40.clarify, Dominic, you are telling the country here on this programme
:21:41. > :21:47.that the Trussell Trust, who deal with poverty, called you personally
:21:48. > :21:52.that the problem with food banks wasn't people who are on the bread
:21:53. > :21:56.line and people who are having cash flow problems, I am dying to hear
:21:57. > :21:59.from them when you have said that. What they do is keep data that the
:22:00. > :22:02.update quarterly and annually on the update quarterly and annually on the
:22:03. > :22:15.reason people are coming to their food banks and that is what was
:22:16. > :22:20.said. People go to the banks because their salaries are not increasing,
:22:21. > :22:23.people cannot save money, people are in crisis, people are on low wages,
:22:24. > :22:29.people who are on benefits are having to use food banks. Did you
:22:30. > :22:33.think anybody in this country should have to use a food bank. We are at
:22:34. > :22:40.the sixth richest country in the world, it is an absolute disgrace!
:22:41. > :22:47.disgrace. Emily Thornberry agrees disgrace. Emily Thornberry agrees
:22:48. > :22:51.with you. But the IFS, we have quoted them a lot, they have pointed
:22:52. > :22:55.out that if the Labour Party were to win this election, the poorest 30%
:22:56. > :23:01.of household would suffer a significant hit to their incomes
:23:02. > :23:04.because of cuts to benefits, many of which you are not promising to
:23:05. > :23:08.reverse. We are going to raise the minimum wage to a proper living wage
:23:09. > :23:13.so that those people. So that those people who are in work and getting
:23:14. > :23:18.benefits as well. You going to reverse cuts to childcare? We have
:23:19. > :23:25.got ?2 billion each year over a five-year period of the government.
:23:26. > :23:28.I am trying to answer you, Victoria. I am giving you specific cuts that
:23:29. > :23:33.the Tories are going to make and I am asking if you will reverse them?
:23:34. > :23:36.We have to build in pounds set aside each year over a five-year period to
:23:37. > :23:41.reform the benefit system and to make sure that we stop cuts like we
:23:42. > :23:46.have talked about specifically, the Debian tax, the benefits cap and the
:23:47. > :23:51.reason that we have set this money as it is because we need to look
:23:52. > :23:53.again at the benefit system and the unfairness, the clear unfairness
:23:54. > :24:02.that we have heard talked about today. Can introduce you, ladies and
:24:03. > :24:05.gentlemen, can I introduce you to Helen Pankhurst, who is the great
:24:06. > :24:14.grand daughter of Emmeline Pankhurst? And as you know, the
:24:15. > :24:19.granddaughter of Sylvia Ankersen, leading lights of the British
:24:20. > :24:24.suffragette movement. Hello. Thank you for this engaged discussion,
:24:25. > :24:29.with interesting. There are many difficult issues and so emotive. The
:24:30. > :24:34.solution is not to not vote. For all of the reasons that in some way I
:24:35. > :24:38.represent with the positive response that you had which is an epitome of
:24:39. > :24:42.why we need to have argued how difficult it has been to get your
:24:43. > :24:45.and we are hoping that baton at the moment and we need to hand it onto
:24:46. > :24:50.the next generation and we cannot just say it is too complicated, it
:24:51. > :24:56.is too difficult, we will not it. As individuals, right now, it is a bit
:24:57. > :24:59.like being in a jigsaw puzzle where everything has been strewn out there
:25:00. > :25:03.and we are individual bits of that jigsaw puzzle and we either do not
:25:04. > :25:09.form a collective, we do not form part of democracy or our little
:25:10. > :25:13.colours and values all slot in and maybe we do not like the overall
:25:14. > :25:18.picture, but our little voice in their is present and counted and
:25:19. > :25:22.measured, so please, for the sake of the past, for the sake of the
:25:23. > :25:25.present, for the sake of the future generations and for being part of
:25:26. > :25:30.that collective, that one moment where we are asked to really be part
:25:31. > :25:35.of our democracy, vote. Absolutely. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
:25:36. > :25:39.. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very
:25:40. > :25:42.much. Do give yourselves a round of applause. Thank you for your time
:25:43. > :26:06.today. We are back tomorrow, join us then.
:26:07. > :26:12.Hello, good evening. Over the next day or two we will find cooler and
:26:13. > :26:15.fresh air moving and across the UK. At the moment that fresh air is
:26:16. > :26:19.somewhere away towards the north-west and we still have this
:26:20. > :26:20.very humid air across the UK that has been