01/06/2017

:00:17. > :00:17.Hello, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire -

:00:18. > :00:21.We speak exclusively to two brothers whose father shot dead their mother

:00:22. > :00:23.and sister following years of controlling behaviour.

:00:24. > :00:25.Luke and Ryan Hart, speaking for the first time,

:00:26. > :00:37.It doesn't hit you in one go and then you have to deal with it,

:00:38. > :00:39.it seeps into you and it's just really disorientating.

:00:40. > :00:41.I think for me, there's still a huge amount of confusion

:00:42. > :00:44.because you obviously still try and make sense, obviously you can't

:00:45. > :00:54.With just a week to go until the general election -

:00:55. > :00:56.Theresa May is criticised for staying away from the latest

:00:57. > :01:02.television debate which saw a series of ill-tempered exchanges.

:01:03. > :01:09.We will always provide that safety net where it is needed. You try to

:01:10. > :01:12.take personal independence payment away from people with disabilities

:01:13. > :01:14.and then turned yourselves around after a few days on that.

:01:15. > :01:19.Jeremy, I know there is no extra payment you don't want to add to,

:01:20. > :01:31.Also this morning - the latest in our election blind date series.

:01:32. > :01:33.Today, Cambridge historian Mary Beard and strip club

:01:34. > :01:40.You look slightly distinguished, quite hunky. You are quite a pretty

:01:41. > :01:56.lady. Get that on camera! Welcome to the programme,

:01:57. > :02:00.we're live until 11am. We're also talking about

:02:01. > :02:02.Ariana Grande's One Love Manchester concert to raise money for people

:02:03. > :02:06.affected by the Manchester bombing. Tickets go on sale

:02:07. > :02:08.at 10am this morning. We'll have the details

:02:09. > :02:10.and we'd love to hear Do get in touch on all the stories

:02:11. > :02:15.we're talking about this morning - If you text, you will be charged

:02:16. > :02:19.at the standard network rate. Theresa May's political opponents

:02:20. > :02:22.have criticised her for not taking part in a seven-way

:02:23. > :02:28.general election debate. She was accused of lacking "guts"

:02:29. > :02:32.during the 90-minute event. Let's get more from our political

:02:33. > :02:41.guru Norman Smith... Is it possible to say who one?

:02:42. > :02:45.It was probably the television volume button as people try to turn

:02:46. > :02:48.down all of the shouting and interruptions because, let's be

:02:49. > :02:53.honest, it was a bunfight with seven politicians trying to get their

:02:54. > :02:58.views over. Were we any wiser by the end of it? Probably not. The big

:02:59. > :03:02.political question is how damaged was Theresa May by the fact that she

:03:03. > :03:07.didn't turn up, and did Jeremy Corbyn really managed to exploit the

:03:08. > :03:21.moment, to seize his chance? The truth is, I don't think really

:03:22. > :03:23.either happened. Mrs May was damaged before anyone spoke a word because

:03:24. > :03:26.of the fact she had not turned up, and Jeremy Corbyn really didn't get

:03:27. > :03:29.the space, maybe he was tired, but it was not a moment when he suddenly

:03:30. > :03:31.crashed through and had a huge impact. So no real big winners, I

:03:32. > :03:33.don't think about my colleague Vicki Young was following the debate.

:03:34. > :03:36.With a week to go, this was a chance for all the parties

:03:37. > :03:40.to pitch their offer to voters and, at the last minute, Jeremy Corbyn

:03:41. > :03:51.Theresa May was ridiculed for staying away.

:03:52. > :03:56.The Prime Minister is not here, she can't be bothered,

:03:57. > :04:01.Unlike Theresa May, I'm not afraid to defend my principles and values.

:04:02. > :04:03.It's the most important election in her lifetime and she cannot even

:04:04. > :04:06.be bothered to come and debate the issues at stake.

:04:07. > :04:10.It was left to her Home Secretary to fend off the attacks

:04:11. > :04:12.on cuts to public services, including disability benefits.

:04:13. > :04:15.I know there is no extra payment you don't want to add to,

:04:16. > :04:21.no tax you don't want to rise, but the fact is we have

:04:22. > :04:24.to concentrate our resources on the people who need it most

:04:25. > :04:26.and we have to stop thinking, as you do, that there's

:04:27. > :04:30.I would just say this, since Amber Rudd seems so confident

:04:31. > :04:33.this is a country at ease with itself - have you

:04:34. > :04:36.Have you seen people sleeping around our stations?

:04:37. > :04:42.For Amber to say that this is a Government that cares

:04:43. > :04:45.for those most vulnerable I think is downright insulting to the kind

:04:46. > :04:47.of people that I see in my constituency surgery.

:04:48. > :04:49.Tim Farron was keen to make the Liberal Democrat case

:04:50. > :04:53.for staying in the single market after Brexit.

:04:54. > :04:59.The Liberal Democrats have got a fully costed manifesto.

:05:00. > :05:01.I'll tell you what, though, there's a long-term economic plan

:05:02. > :05:04.underlying the whole of the Liberal Democrat manifesto,

:05:05. > :05:08.and that is - don't leave the European single

:05:09. > :05:11.market and throw away ?15 billion every single year in revenue.

:05:12. > :05:13.While others clashed over immigration, Ukip suggesting Britain

:05:14. > :05:14.would struggle to cope with rising numbers.

:05:15. > :05:20.We have to get the population under control, because if we carry

:05:21. > :05:22.on on the road we're on, we'll have a population

:05:23. > :05:24.of 80 million by the middle of the century.

:05:25. > :05:27.Ukip keep using this issue, they want to whip up people's

:05:28. > :05:29.hatred, division and fear, and that's why they talk

:05:30. > :05:36.I think this debate shames and demeans us all.

:05:37. > :05:42.I don't think there's anyone in this room or anybody watching this debate

:05:43. > :05:46.from Cornwall to Caithness who does not understand the positive

:05:47. > :05:50.contribution that people have made to this land who've come

:05:51. > :05:52.from the rest of Europe and the rest of the world,

:05:53. > :05:54.and demonising those people is totally unacceptable.

:05:55. > :05:57.This was a crowded field, with seven parties all

:05:58. > :06:05.And, as the party in Government, it wasn't surprising

:06:06. > :06:08.that the Conservatives came under sustained attack over their record.

:06:09. > :06:10.Their response was to say that being in power requires

:06:11. > :06:13.There were no clear winners in this debate,

:06:14. > :06:27.My sense is that by and large all the leaders did OK but if I had to

:06:28. > :06:31.pick out two who I think outperformed the others I would

:06:32. > :06:34.probably go with Caroline Lucas and Amber Rudd. Caroline Lucas

:06:35. > :06:40.disproving those who may be the green politicians are friendly, not

:06:41. > :06:43.going to be two argy-bargy by really going in against Amber Rudd to say

:06:44. > :06:47.it was downright insulting of the Tories to say they are protecting

:06:48. > :06:54.the poorest in society. And Amber Rudd stuck to some fairly simple,

:06:55. > :06:57.effective lines about Jeremy Corbyn having a fantasyland economics,

:06:58. > :07:02.believing there was a magic money tree to pay for everything, and

:07:03. > :07:05.amidst all the shouting and arguing those simple minds, I suspect

:07:06. > :07:10.committed perhaps come through. Thank you very much, Norman.

:07:11. > :07:12.Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:07:13. > :07:20.Two brothers whose father shot dead their mother and sister described

:07:21. > :07:24.him as behaving like a terrorist. Lance Hart killed his wife and

:07:25. > :07:27.daughter outside swimming pool in Spalding last July before turning

:07:28. > :07:31.the weapon on himself. His sons Luke and Ryan have told this programme

:07:32. > :07:35.that domestic abuse is not necessarily defined by violence but

:07:36. > :07:40.by the mindset of the perpetrator. They describe a lifetime of struggle

:07:41. > :07:43.in end during their father's controlling behaviour.

:07:44. > :07:49.The thing we learned in the end with our father, he had the mentality of

:07:50. > :07:52.a terrorist, willing to kill himself to achieve what he achieved, and

:07:53. > :07:56.someone who is that fundamental, you cannot stop, and I think that is the

:07:57. > :08:00.thing that makes our case so difficult for us to comprehend, it

:08:01. > :08:05.almost feels like we weren't safe whatever we did, you know? If we had

:08:06. > :08:11.stayed, he was planning to kill us there and given the fact we had

:08:12. > :08:13.left, you'd then just applied it in different terms.

:08:14. > :08:18.You can see that full interview later in the programme.

:08:19. > :08:21.Chinese and European Union leaders are preparing to issue a joint

:08:22. > :08:25.statement supporting the Paris accord on climate change. They will

:08:26. > :08:29.declare the agreement is more important than ever and say they are

:08:30. > :08:32.stepping up plans to cut carbon emissions. President Trump is

:08:33. > :08:34.expected to announce at 8pm this evening British time whether he is

:08:35. > :08:36.withdrawing the US from the Paris deal.

:08:37. > :08:39.A prisoner who overpowered his guards to escape from hospital has

:08:40. > :08:41.Michal Kisiel, who police described as dangerous,

:08:42. > :08:47.was spotted by a member of the public yesterday evening.

:08:48. > :08:52.More than 5500 cases of child sexual abuse linked to the internet

:08:53. > :08:54.were recorded by police forces in England and Wales

:08:55. > :08:58.The figures, obtained by the NSPCC, show a 44% rise

:08:59. > :09:03.The charity is calling for stricter internet safety measures

:09:04. > :09:16.To ensure that Government is regulating companies in the same way

:09:17. > :09:23.as they would be regulating cos off-line, and what that looks like

:09:24. > :09:27.is ensuring that children's privacy online is on as a default when they

:09:28. > :09:32.are going online, all children, young people under the age of 18,

:09:33. > :09:33.and we also want to ensure the Government imposes fines on

:09:34. > :09:36.companies that flout those regulations.

:09:37. > :09:38.Police investigating the Manchester Arena bombing have

:09:39. > :09:41.released a 21-year-old man from Nuneaton without charge.

:09:42. > :09:44.Ten people remain in custody as detectives try to establish

:09:45. > :09:45.whether the bomber, Salman Abedi, had any help.

:09:46. > :09:53.Meanwhile, tickets for a benefit concert in aid of the victims

:09:54. > :09:56.of the attack will go on sale later this morning.

:09:57. > :09:58.Artists including Katie Perry, Take That, Justin Bieber

:09:59. > :10:00.and Coldplay will all perform alongside Ariana Grande

:10:01. > :10:09.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

:10:10. > :10:21.Thank you very much. If you are getting in touch, you are very

:10:22. > :10:25.welcome, you can use the hashtag and if you text we will have to charge

:10:26. > :10:29.you, the standard network rate. Let's get some sport with Holly, a

:10:30. > :10:33.big few weeks the cricket in this country with the champion/ the?

:10:34. > :10:37.That's right, if you are a cricket fan you will know this is the second

:10:38. > :10:41.biggest tournament in global 50 over cricket and this time England are

:10:42. > :10:45.the favourites. They kick off against Bangladesh at the Oval at

:10:46. > :10:49.10:30am this morning and while there is a lot of expectation England have

:10:50. > :10:54.an exciting young team this year but the champion/ Pic is a competition

:10:55. > :11:07.where everyday matters so teams just cannot

:11:08. > :11:12.slip up. As well as the champions Trophy in England and Wales we have

:11:13. > :11:14.the women's World Cup this month so it is an important summer for the

:11:15. > :11:17.sport. Highlights of the champions Trophy will be on the BBC, which

:11:18. > :11:21.will ensure the tournament can perhaps reach a wider audience than

:11:22. > :11:25.it has before and maybe stop the decline of participation among young

:11:26. > :11:29.people which it has had in recent years, and get more into the public

:11:30. > :11:32.consciousness. A win for England would certainly get people talking

:11:33. > :11:35.about cricket. Two days before the British Lions

:11:36. > :11:39.start their tour and there is talk about the packed schedule?

:11:40. > :11:43.We heard a lot about this yesterday, they arrived in New Zealand and it

:11:44. > :11:48.really is quite a gruelling schedule. They have had their first

:11:49. > :11:52.bull session at the stadium in Albany and we do know that it will

:11:53. > :11:57.be Sam Warburton who will captain the squad in the opening match

:11:58. > :12:00.against the barbarians which will happen on Saturday, his first game

:12:01. > :12:04.since suffering a knee injury back in April. Warburton has said he

:12:05. > :12:08.feels the talk around this packed schedule has been blown way out of

:12:09. > :12:12.proportion, and head coach Warren Gatland has said he feels the squad

:12:13. > :12:15.are ready and he has said that he feels it is very important keeping

:12:16. > :12:19.the squad together early on and he doesn't want to split up the squad

:12:20. > :12:25.in the way that perhaps Graham Henry did in Australia in 2001.

:12:26. > :12:29.It is paramount for these guys at the moment. I know the players

:12:30. > :12:34.involved with Graham Henry in 2001, he lost half the team on day one

:12:35. > :12:37.because, you guys over here, you guys over there, and the players

:12:38. > :12:41.knew straightaway, that is the test side, we are just making up the

:12:42. > :12:44.numbers. I think it is important these guys feel like they are

:12:45. > :12:48.putting themselves in the shop window, that they have a chance to

:12:49. > :12:59.go and prove themselves. The Lions'

:13:00. > :13:02.first match against the provincial barbarians. It is also worth

:13:03. > :13:05.mentioning that Warren Gatland's Sun has been confirmed in that team so

:13:06. > :13:06.we could see some father-son rivalry on Saturday.

:13:07. > :13:08.Let's hope so. Andy Murray plays again in the French Open in a few

:13:09. > :13:10.minutes? That is right, that is happening

:13:11. > :13:15.very shortly, we should see that happening. This follows the much

:13:16. > :13:22.that happened earlier this week, there was a lot of debate around

:13:23. > :13:25.Martin Klizan, who had a much earlier this week, he had been

:13:26. > :13:32.suffering with some calf problems and limped his way through that

:13:33. > :13:36.first round, his opponent resulted Haka accused him of faking it and

:13:37. > :13:44.the umpire had to come in and separate them. Andy Murray now have

:13:45. > :13:47.this much coming up, he himself has been accused of being a bit of a

:13:48. > :13:52.drama queen in the past, these two have not met since last October so

:13:53. > :13:54.it could be interesting, definitely one worth watching.

:13:55. > :13:59.Cheers, Holly, thank you, more from Holly throughout the morning.

:14:00. > :14:06.I have recorded an interview this morning with two brothers, Luke and

:14:07. > :14:10.Ryan Hart, one is 27, one is 26, they are speaking for the first time

:14:11. > :14:15.about the fact that their father last year killed their mother and

:14:16. > :14:22.their sister, Charlotte, aged 19. There she is. They have never spoken

:14:23. > :14:26.before, the reason that they want to speak now, there is a picture of

:14:27. > :14:29.their mum, Claire, the reason they want to speak now is to talk about

:14:30. > :14:33.the controlling behaviour the family experience at the hands of their

:14:34. > :14:37.father, Lance Hart, the years and years and the fact that they did not

:14:38. > :14:42.realise that that was wrong, that it was not normal in most families. So,

:14:43. > :14:47.do listen, do watch the interview, which is coming up after 10am. They

:14:48. > :14:53.are two quite remarkable and very courageous young men. That is just

:14:54. > :14:56.after 10am this morning. Lots and lots and lots of you have

:14:57. > :15:03.been in touch to say how much you are enjoying our election Blind

:15:04. > :15:05.dates series, where we bring together two people over lunch, two

:15:06. > :15:15.people with very different views. Today, TV historian and feminist

:15:16. > :15:17.Mary Beard meets strip club owner They both claim to be feminists -

:15:18. > :15:21.but who will win the argument? There is quite a lot of flirting.

:15:22. > :15:35.This is how they got on. There is an election on and people

:15:36. > :15:39.are talking politics. So what happens when you send two people

:15:40. > :15:47.with opposing views on the launch date? I'm well nervous. This has

:15:48. > :15:57.been so long, literally! Will Sparks fly? You see people who can work and

:15:58. > :16:02.choose not to. It angers me. You look gloriously distinguished and

:16:03. > :16:10.slightly hunky. You are quite a pretty lady. Get that on camera!

:16:11. > :16:13.When people stand at the dispatch box and tell me there is more money

:16:14. > :16:15.and education, I look around and wonder where it has gone? It is not

:16:16. > :16:37.in my children's school. I would summarise my politics very

:16:38. > :16:42.simply as the maverick left and proud. I am merely bearded and I am

:16:43. > :16:51.a professor of classics at the University of Kent Reg. I do Roman

:16:52. > :16:58.documentaries on BBC. It has got my face out there for a better or much

:16:59. > :17:03.worse. I floated around, sometimes voting Labour, sometimes voting Lib

:17:04. > :17:08.Dem. What is politics about? Days about thrashing things out. Things

:17:09. > :17:14.don't get thrashed out now. Many of my political opponents are wrong!

:17:15. > :17:23.But I don't think they are stupid. I'm ready. Put the soft focus on, I

:17:24. > :17:28.think. It always amazes me that people do know who I am. I'm Peter

:17:29. > :17:38.Stringfellow. Not Peter, the nightclub guy. Paris, New York,

:17:39. > :17:41.Miami. I realise that me and the Conservatives have a lot in common.

:17:42. > :17:47.If you go for lunch with me, you have to be very special. I don't do

:17:48. > :17:53.lunches. Sex is night-time. Lunch? What do you do with lunch? I don't

:17:54. > :17:58.know. It does feel a bit like a blind

:17:59. > :18:05.date, really. And I have been reflecting who it might be.

:18:06. > :18:17.LAUGHTER. That's OK. I'm happy. How you? I'm

:18:18. > :18:22.good. I'm very happy. Good. Great place for lunch. I hope you are

:18:23. > :18:29.impressed! Right, nihilism, you are going to have to remind me of your

:18:30. > :18:40.full name. Mary Beard. And you? Peter Stringfellow. It is

:18:41. > :18:46.surprisingly like a blind date. I haven't had a blind date for about

:18:47. > :18:53.40 years. I was sitting here and I thought, I'm beginning to feel a bit

:18:54. > :19:03.nervous. I never, ever had a blind date. You are my first. Let's enjoy

:19:04. > :19:07.it. Two poached eggs on toast. I'm going to have a cheese omelette.

:19:08. > :19:19.Wait a minute, let me get this right. ?2 40. Reasonable as well.

:19:20. > :19:27.Reasonable?! I'm going to be the cheapest launch date you have ever

:19:28. > :19:37.had! The idea of high taxes I don't believe in at all. Taxes lead to a

:19:38. > :19:44.low economy. I know it is a fact there is a flow down. Forget the

:19:45. > :19:47.word trickle. My gut instinct is to think there is a prime Facey case

:19:48. > :19:54.that if you are very rich you haven't paid your taxes. To a

:19:55. > :19:59.degree. But they have probably found legal loopholes. Let's get back to

:20:00. > :20:06.real people who vote on aspirations. They want a better house, a better

:20:07. > :20:14.car, i.e., for instance, paid for my kids' education. We have good

:20:15. > :20:19.holidays. I own a couple of houses. This is taken me 50 odd years to

:20:20. > :20:24.get. I have been up and down like a yo-yo. People like me, when we come

:20:25. > :20:31.down, we have to go back up again. We are not academics. You are a bit

:20:32. > :20:37.of an academic. That's my day job. There's nothing wrong with that. I

:20:38. > :20:40.wish I was educated. People like me are not pretending to be the

:20:41. > :20:45.saviours of the world. We are a bit selfish. We want a better life. But

:20:46. > :20:51.in our awake, people are making money. They have got jobs. They will

:20:52. > :20:56.get a better life. Now what is wrong... I'm still working. I'm 76

:20:57. > :21:02.and I'm still working. What do you say to me? I'm not in your league of

:21:03. > :21:09.wealth. I have one house, I am comfortably off. And I see no reason

:21:10. > :21:16.why I should not contribute more from my income, which I can well

:21:17. > :21:22.afford to do, to people who are doing absolutely vital, necessary

:21:23. > :21:28.jobs, and are underpaid. We have an obligation to do this. Forgive me if

:21:29. > :21:38.I say this, I'm assuming something here. You don't create jobs, do you,

:21:39. > :21:47.with what you do? Addy got a housekeeper? No. You haven't got a

:21:48. > :21:51.housekeeper?! I thought everybody had a housekeeper! I employ people

:21:52. > :21:57.within my business. And they rely upon me. And they rely upon my

:21:58. > :22:01.success. I don't know anybody, maybe you were the first one, who doesn't

:22:02. > :22:07.want a bigger house, a better house, a better job, a better family. You

:22:08. > :22:14.don't care about that? My desire is not to be richer. With all respect,

:22:15. > :22:18.I pay ludicrous amounts of tax. It is my company, I own it. I have a

:22:19. > :22:27.massive salary which helps keep my family. I keep a lot of people

:22:28. > :22:33.going. And I contribute to this incredibly -- economy, incredibly.

:22:34. > :22:39.Absolutely. I'm not trying to impugn your morals. Some people's Moreaux I

:22:40. > :22:44.would impugn, but yours, no. There is a very simple point about human

:22:45. > :22:49.justice. I see very, very little sign in what the Tories say or do or

:22:50. > :23:02.their record, of them recognising and joining me in saying this is

:23:03. > :23:10.unfair. Poached eggs. I'm having coffee. What are you going to have?

:23:11. > :23:23.I have a copy you. -- you have a copy. My mother used to hate crumbs.

:23:24. > :23:34.Let's get on to a bit of the... I can't wait, Mary! What? I am a

:23:35. > :23:38.feminist. I don't necessarily agree with front line troops being female

:23:39. > :23:42.but they want to be. Therefore the feminist in me says they must do

:23:43. > :23:48.what they wish to do. I interpret feminism as being -- saying quite

:23:49. > :23:55.simply, women can do what they want to do and not be told by a man. So

:23:56. > :24:00.if they want to take their clothes off? They can. What they do is

:24:01. > :24:09.entirely up to them within the scope of the law. Then they go on to make

:24:10. > :24:14.money at your level? Of course not. They make their money and go into

:24:15. > :24:19.their own businesses. These people are entrepreneurs themselves. They

:24:20. > :24:30.come from all around Europe. This is one of the reasons I am a Remainer,

:24:31. > :24:34.of course. That's wonderful! Can I just slightly parody you and say,

:24:35. > :24:38.I'm a Remainer because I want all of those nice eastern European girls to

:24:39. > :24:44.come and take their clothes off in my club! I like all those European

:24:45. > :24:54.people to come and earn money in my club. I don't think you are anything

:24:55. > :24:59.other than sincere. But I would challenge is your simplistic notion

:25:00. > :25:05.that feminism is about what women want to do. Because the whole point,

:25:06. > :25:13.it seems to me, but women's choices is that they are deeply determined

:25:14. > :25:21.by a whole range of things. They haven't got a free choice. You agree

:25:22. > :25:27.with it. That is what you are saying. No. I would be interested to

:25:28. > :25:33.talk to some of your girls. Maybe I will get a chance one day. Why do

:25:34. > :25:38.you think they would talk to you? Because you feel they have got to?

:25:39. > :25:42.Would you go up to somebody on the street and say, why are you

:25:43. > :25:50.painting? Why are you driving this truck? Maybe this BBC team can set

:25:51. > :25:59.it up like they have today. Let me just tell you something. You are

:26:00. > :26:07.quite a pretty lady. Get that on camera! Get it on camera! Call me

:26:08. > :26:16.inconsistent. Call me inconsistent! You have a great smile, lovely

:26:17. > :26:20.sparkling eyes. I am what I am. I have had a lot of major run-ins with

:26:21. > :26:26.people who are really saying to me, look darling, you're grey-haired,

:26:27. > :26:34.why don't you diet? County do something about your teeth? Please

:26:35. > :26:39.make yourself look prettier for us. I don't know that world. I don't

:26:40. > :26:44.know the world of people who would say that to you. I don't know those

:26:45. > :26:47.kind of people. Don't you think you under Pennetta? It is a very

:26:48. > :26:54.different world for a man with grey hair than for a woman with grey

:26:55. > :27:00.hair. You look kind of gloriously distinguished, slightly hunky. Hit

:27:01. > :27:07.me with it. I'm good looking, and I?! If you are a woman with grey

:27:08. > :27:12.hair, you are constantly told that you should do something about

:27:13. > :27:18.yourself. Now you might say that has nothing to do with your business,

:27:19. > :27:21.but I would say that you have to look to what underpins and justifies

:27:22. > :27:30.that particular way of judging women. And one of the things that

:27:31. > :27:41.underpins it is your girls in your clubs, who are actually really in

:27:42. > :27:50.our represent, in normative view of female beauty. No. I've got to say

:27:51. > :27:56.no. I'll answer it as best I can. Sadly, you have bumped into some

:27:57. > :28:02.weird people. The women I know will judge young women while they are

:28:03. > :28:07.young, toll-booths, big boobs, you name it, for a little while. But

:28:08. > :28:17.women do the same two men. I like a guy with taxes, no hair. Look at me,

:28:18. > :28:22.I'm 76, coming up 277, I have got two young babies, a gorgeous former

:28:23. > :28:27.ballerina wife at 34, 35, I hope I have got that right, and I that

:28:28. > :28:34.judged. Oh my God, she is only with him for the money. It's rubbish. Do

:28:35. > :28:39.I care? Does my wife care? No. We're not talking about a world in which

:28:40. > :28:47.nobody judges no one else. But you tend to stop your analysis to quit.

:28:48. > :28:52.How does power influence money, aspiration, related to those ideas

:28:53. > :28:58.of judgment? I don't get that at all. Someone like me has grown up

:28:59. > :29:09.looking at the telly and wrinkly old guys... I'm taking this personal! I

:29:10. > :29:13.quite like wrinkly old guys. I am looking at wrinkly old guys and

:29:14. > :29:20.young women with blonde hair, women over 50. One of the commonest things

:29:21. > :29:25.they say is, I feel invisible now. We judge everything. We judge cars,

:29:26. > :29:35.we judge everybody. It's no good just saying that. I just want to say

:29:36. > :29:43.that you... I'd love to teach you, Peter. I'd like to set you an essay

:29:44. > :29:51.to write. And I would like to have a good real Barney about it. I know

:29:52. > :29:55.more than you. I have lived longer. I have had more experience than you.

:29:56. > :30:03.Your experience is quite limited. Mine is massive. You have no idea

:30:04. > :30:08.about how limited my experience is! I talk about extended my experience

:30:09. > :30:12.when I say, it would be quite interesting to talk to some of the

:30:13. > :30:24.women in your club, and you say, why do they want to speak to you? I

:30:25. > :30:30.didn't say that. I didn't! Merhi, I have enjoyed having lunch with you.

:30:31. > :30:34.Have you changed my view? Are nothing, to be honest, but it has

:30:35. > :30:40.been good to learn about you. I am paying! No, this is where political

:30:41. > :30:44.correctness goes out of the window, I am an old-fashioned guy. If you

:30:45. > :30:50.are an old-fashioned lady, you will let me have it! It is an

:30:51. > :30:59.old-fashioned joke. You can keep the change. Mary, it is a draw. We

:31:00. > :31:14.didn't come in order to win! Oh, yes, we did! After you.

:31:15. > :31:20.I enjoyed it. So did I. I didn't convince you on anything? Not

:31:21. > :31:25.really, no. And I think within the UK you do have the opportunity to

:31:26. > :31:30.aspire and go forth. I think that is where, on reflection, our or

:31:31. > :31:38.disagreement comes from. I have to say this, I am living proof that you

:31:39. > :31:41.are wrong. I left school at 15, backstreet of Sheffield, you could

:31:42. > :31:46.not get any more working-class than me, and I have done it, if I can do

:31:47. > :31:50.it anyone can. You are living proof that you can do it, you are not

:31:51. > :31:55.living proof that anyone else can. If you have ambition in the UK, you

:31:56. > :32:00.can go places. I admire you, your academic qualifications are

:32:01. > :32:04.incredible, but you are somewhat... Protected, and I haven't been, and

:32:05. > :32:09.you have been. Once you have been to my club, me and you will agree on

:32:10. > :32:18.everything! And me and your husband will as well. I am waiting for you,

:32:19. > :32:22.Robin, that is his name? Yes, it is! I have forgotten what I wanted to

:32:23. > :32:27.say, you put me off my stride! That is one of my problems in life! I

:32:28. > :32:34.just imagine what some of my best friends are going to say... Can I

:32:35. > :32:38.come with you?! No, they are not, Stringfellow, they are going to say,

:32:39. > :32:46.Mary, you just let him get away with it! I think that you probably ought

:32:47. > :32:52.to come and see what life is like for a job being working academic in

:32:53. > :32:55.Cambridge... I'd love to. Because I think people often think this is

:32:56. > :33:00.ivory tower, privilege, don't face the real world. Come and see. And

:33:01. > :33:04.then we can have lunch. I think we will keep on being friends. I think

:33:05. > :33:08.it will be very interesting to know what I think after I have been to

:33:09. > :33:15.the club. I do not predict that my mind will be much changed, but you

:33:16. > :33:19.never know. I know you, you are a lady for life, a good live of life,

:33:20. > :33:31.and I'm sure you will enjoy the nightclub. Thank you! It is a date!

:33:32. > :33:37.Is that OK, folks? So anyway, Oxford and Cambridge...

:33:38. > :33:48.Thank you, gentlemen. My mother would turn in her grave, I am from

:33:49. > :33:51.an era of men... Gabby is not impressed. This is a

:33:52. > :33:59.carefully constructed bit of propaganda. Just because a classics

:34:00. > :34:03.scholar, Mary Beard, she said, if I was a member of the Labour Party I

:34:04. > :34:08.would vote for coping. Can anyone think this is balanced journalism?

:34:09. > :34:14.What a joke. Another says, Stringfellow and Mary Beard meeting,

:34:15. > :34:19.he does not half interrupted a lot! And another makes the same point,

:34:20. > :34:25.clearly loves himself more than anyone else does. Peters says, Peter

:34:26. > :34:29.Stringfellow is proving the need for tax and taxing more. He is also

:34:30. > :34:32.under the delusion you can pay for everything yourself. Good luck

:34:33. > :34:36.buying a motorway, Peter, hospital, a police force, or an army.

:34:37. > :34:42.Thank you for those, if you are getting in touch, use the hashtag

:34:43. > :34:44.#VictoriaLIVE. Or there is always Facebook.

:34:45. > :34:46.And tomorrow, Labour's Jess Phillips and Conservative John Whittingdale

:34:47. > :34:55.go on an Election Blind Date and talk ambition, heavy metal and -

:34:56. > :35:04.I was in Wilkinson is buying some bin bags the other day and somebody

:35:05. > :35:12.was like that, I cannot believe you are in Wilkinsons! I was like, I

:35:13. > :35:15.have to put things in the bin! I don't have people to put things in

:35:16. > :35:18.my bins! That is tomorrow.

:35:19. > :35:21.Tickets for Sunday's memorial concert in Manchester with Ariana

:35:22. > :35:24.Grande, Justin Bieber and Coldplay, go on sale in about

:35:25. > :35:26.half-an-hour's time - we'll be talking to someone

:35:27. > :35:28.who was at the concert when the attack took place,

:35:29. > :35:34.and has been given a free ticket for the event.

:35:35. > :35:40.And, in Afghanistan, as residents clear the debris

:35:41. > :35:43.after yesterday's car bomb attack in Kabul,

:35:44. > :35:50.we'll be speaking to a man who lost his colleague

:35:51. > :35:53.in the blast, and Afghanistan's UK ambassador will also be

:35:54. > :35:59.Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:36:00. > :36:02.Theresa May will again put Brexit at the heart of the Conservative

:36:03. > :36:04.campaign today as she faces continued criticism for failing

:36:05. > :36:06.to take part in last night's television debate

:36:07. > :36:09.The Tories were represented by the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,

:36:10. > :36:15.in an event which saw heated exchanges on a range of issues.

:36:16. > :36:21.Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn clashed with Amber Rudd over cuts, while she

:36:22. > :36:24.said only the Conservatives were strong enough to negotiate Brexit.

:36:25. > :36:27.Today at 3.30pm on BBC News, we will be putting your questions

:36:28. > :36:30.about issues which affect older people in this election to our

:36:31. > :36:34.personal finance correspondent and two pensions experts.

:36:35. > :36:36.If you have a question on the pensions triple lock,

:36:37. > :36:39.social care, or inheritance tax, you can get in touch via Twitter

:36:40. > :36:46.using the hashtag #BBCAskThis, or text your questions to 61124,

:36:47. > :36:52.and you can email us as well at askthis@bbc.co.uk.

:36:53. > :36:58.Two brothers whose father shot dead their mother and sister have

:36:59. > :37:02.described him as behaving like a terrorist. Lance Hart killed his

:37:03. > :37:05.wife Claire and daughter Charlotte outside a swimming pool in Spalding

:37:06. > :37:09.last July before turning the weapon on himself. His sons Luke and Ryan

:37:10. > :37:13.have told this programme that domestic abuse isn't necessarily

:37:14. > :37:17.defined by violence but by the mindset of the perpetrator. They

:37:18. > :37:18.describe a lifetime of struggle enduring their father's controlling

:37:19. > :37:21.behaviour. The thing we learned in the end was,

:37:22. > :37:26.with our father, he had the mentality of a terrorist,

:37:27. > :37:29.he was willing to kill himself to achieve what he achieved,

:37:30. > :37:33.and someone who is that fundamental, you can't stop, and I think

:37:34. > :37:36.that is the thing that makes our case so difficult for us

:37:37. > :37:39.to comprehend, it almost feels like we weren't safe

:37:40. > :37:41.whatever we did, you know? If we had stayed, he was planning

:37:42. > :37:56.to kill us there and given the fact we'd left, he then

:37:57. > :38:06.justified it in different terms. President Trump is expected to

:38:07. > :38:08.announce at 8pm this evening whether he will be withdrawn from the US

:38:09. > :38:15.from the Paris climate change deal. More than 5500 cases of child sexual

:38:16. > :38:18.abuse linked to the internet were recorded by police forces

:38:19. > :38:20.in England The figures, obtained

:38:21. > :38:24.by the NSPCC, show a 44% rise The charity is calling for stricter

:38:25. > :38:27.internet safety measures That's a summary of the latest BBC

:38:28. > :38:38.News - more at 10am. Holly is back with the latest board.

:38:39. > :38:43.Just over an hour to go before the start of the champions Trophy,

:38:44. > :38:48.cricket's second biggest global 50 over competition. Hosts England are

:38:49. > :38:51.favourite to win their first major 50 over global title and start this

:38:52. > :38:54.morning against Bangladesh at the Oval.

:38:55. > :38:57.Less than 48 hours until the British and Irish Lions' first match of

:38:58. > :39:01.their tour of New Zealand and head coach Warren Gatland insists he

:39:02. > :39:05.won't make the same mistake as his predecessor by splitting the squads

:39:06. > :39:10.for tests and matches. Martina Navratilova has repeated her

:39:11. > :39:15.call for the Margaret Court Arena at the Australian Open to be renamed,

:39:16. > :39:18.describing Court is a racist and homophobic following her comments

:39:19. > :39:22.about homosexuality. And Andy Murray is back in action at

:39:23. > :39:27.the French Open this morning facing the world number 50 in the second

:39:28. > :39:31.round. Britain's Kyle Edmund is on court later as well.

:39:32. > :39:34.Those are the headlines, more after 10am.

:39:35. > :39:36.Tickets for Ariana Grande's One Love Manchester concert at go on sale

:39:37. > :39:43.The event at Old Trafford on Sunday will be broadcast on BBC One

:39:44. > :39:46.and raise money for those affected by the suicide bombing last Monday,

:39:47. > :39:53.Our entertainment reporter Chi Chi Izundu is here.

:39:54. > :40:01.It is quite an astonishing line-up. We have the likes of Justin Bieber,

:40:02. > :40:08.Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, take that, the Black eyed peas also confirmed

:40:09. > :40:13.they will be performing. Tony Walsh, the poet, who read the Manchester

:40:14. > :40:18.pairing the day after the attack, he has also agreed to perform, there

:40:19. > :40:23.will be a performance from a local school choir and there were rumours

:40:24. > :40:26.of other artists like Madonna, Races, a big rumour about them

:40:27. > :40:34.reforming because the Black Eyed Peas, one of them accidentally

:40:35. > :40:37.mentioned them in at Wid but there is no confirmation, we expect other

:40:38. > :40:41.surprise names to be announced as the days go on.

:40:42. > :40:47.Tickets go on sale, those who were at the concert a week last Monday

:40:48. > :40:49.will get a free ticket, we are told...

:40:50. > :40:54.If they registered by 10pm last night.

:40:55. > :40:57.What about measures being put in place to stop tickets being resold

:40:58. > :41:00.on the secondary websites for a profit?

:41:01. > :41:06.This is an offshoot a lot of people are worried about, website said they

:41:07. > :41:19.will not allow the resale of charity events on their platforms. StubHub

:41:20. > :41:22.have said the same. We have tried to contact ViaGoGo, they have not

:41:23. > :41:29.confirmed they won't allow the resale. So anyone's guess if they

:41:30. > :41:31.appear on that platform. Are there any estimate as to how

:41:32. > :41:35.much money this charity concert could raise for families and

:41:36. > :41:41.relatives of those who were killed and injured?

:41:42. > :41:45.They are expecting the amount to raise about ?2 million, tickets are

:41:46. > :41:50.going for about ?40 each that this is just on the ticket sales. Let's

:41:51. > :41:53.not forget that HMV have said they will donate all the proceeds of the

:41:54. > :42:02.album that they plan to put together of the artists, Bube Oval match all

:42:03. > :42:08.of the receipts they get from taking people there and back -- Uber will

:42:09. > :42:15.match. A lot of artists also getting their fans to donate, like Justin

:42:16. > :42:20.Timberlake, Tom Hardy, so it should raise in excess of 2 million.

:42:21. > :42:23.We can now speak to a fan who hopes to be at Sunday's concert.

:42:24. > :42:26.Vina lives in Manchester and was at the Ariana show last

:42:27. > :42:28.Monday, and so can register for a free ticket.

:42:29. > :42:35.Thank you for talking to us. You were at the original gig with your

:42:36. > :42:40.14-year-old cousin, as I understand it. You were inside the arena when

:42:41. > :42:50.the explosion happened. When were you aware that an explosion had

:42:51. > :42:53.happened? My cousin and I heard the bomb exploded, we were confused

:42:54. > :42:58.because we did not know what it was and we realised it was dangerous

:42:59. > :43:05.when everyone else started screaming and then we kind of just tried to

:43:06. > :43:12.run away out of the arena. How has the last week and a half been for

:43:13. > :43:16.you? Very tough for me. The first four days I just remember crying the

:43:17. > :43:22.whole time but for the past few days I have been a lot better. Everyone

:43:23. > :43:26.has been very supportive to me. What do you think about going to this

:43:27. > :43:32.concert on Sunday? I really want to go, although I'm very scared to go

:43:33. > :43:38.because you never know what really is going to happen, but I feel like

:43:39. > :43:44.I need to pay my respects to the ones who unfortunately did pass

:43:45. > :43:48.away. And what are you expecting from the event, what do you think it

:43:49. > :43:55.is going to be like? I feel like this is a healing process, so if I

:43:56. > :43:59.do go there it will be like a first step to join together and be

:44:00. > :44:01.stronger than we were before. Thank you very much, Vina, thank you for

:44:02. > :44:09.talking to us. Next, hospitals in the Afghan

:44:10. > :44:13.capital couple are appealing for blood supplies to treat hundreds of

:44:14. > :44:19.people injured in yesterday's devastating suicide bombing.

:44:20. > :44:22.Afghan President Ashraf Ghani has condemned the attack

:44:23. > :44:25.in the capital Kabul, which killed at least 90

:44:26. > :44:33.This was the scene in couple yesterday, the capital of

:44:34. > :44:38.Afghanistan. A suicide attacker detonated a powerful bomb creating

:44:39. > :44:42.this huge crater, sending doors and windows flying hundreds of meters.

:44:43. > :44:47.It was driven into the diplomatic area of the city in a tanker during

:44:48. > :44:52.morning rush hour. At least 90 people were killed and hundreds more

:44:53. > :44:57.injured, mostly civilians. The Taliban and so-called Islamic State

:44:58. > :45:00.are the main suspects. But neither group has claimed responsibility. It

:45:01. > :45:14.is a city where the Taliban have a long history. In the

:45:15. > :45:18.late 90s it controlled Kabul and imposed a hardline Islamic rule on

:45:19. > :45:19.its citizens. Then came 9/11, terrorists attacked the United

:45:20. > :45:22.States by flying hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and

:45:23. > :45:24.other targets. The Islamist terror group Al-Qaeda will swiftly

:45:25. > :45:31.identified as the main suspect. Its leader, Osama Bin Laden, was closely

:45:32. > :45:35.linked to this Taliban who publicly condemned the attacks. They refused

:45:36. > :45:41.to release him to international justice. The US invaded Afghanistan

:45:42. > :45:44.and pushed the Taliban out of Kabul. International forces took

:45:45. > :45:49.responsibility for security across the country. A new regime was set up

:45:50. > :45:55.and after it had been in place a decade outside military withdrew. In

:45:56. > :46:00.2014, control was handed back to Afghan forces. Since then, in surge

:46:01. > :46:04.has been rising in Afghanistan, there has been a surge in Taliban

:46:05. > :46:12.activity, along with the number of attacks by so-called Islamic State.

:46:13. > :46:19.There have been several attacks in Kabul itself.

:46:20. > :46:35.There are some suggestions that... Let's talk to Afghanistan's are it

:46:36. > :46:44.in the UK. Also a British Afghan charity workers. And also, someone

:46:45. > :46:48.who lost their colleague in yesterday's attack. View our

:46:49. > :46:51.director of Afghanistan's biggest news station and yesterday you lost

:46:52. > :46:57.one of your engineers, I understand. Tell us about him? It was a very

:46:58. > :47:03.tragic attack. We were very saddened and horrified that we lost our

:47:04. > :47:08.colleague in a terrorist attack. We lost seven of our colleagues just

:47:09. > :47:13.last year. This is the first casualty this year. Certainly very

:47:14. > :47:20.heartbreaking. He was a very passionate young man and committed

:47:21. > :47:25.to the future of the country. He was always having a smile on his face,

:47:26. > :47:30.coming to work so passionate. I used to know him closely. It was

:47:31. > :47:39.certainly heartbreaking to lose him yesterday. Ambassador, this was a

:47:40. > :47:43.terrible day for your country? A very difficult day even by Kabul

:47:44. > :47:47.standards. People were going about their lives, mostly civilians are

:47:48. > :47:56.civil servants, and they were targeted. Many people died. The

:47:57. > :48:05.gentleman who died was a father of four. Many others were similar. Your

:48:06. > :48:11.family are in Kabul. Security is a huge issue. It is not secure enough?

:48:12. > :48:17.It is. I was there earlier this month. And at times when I met with

:48:18. > :48:21.young people I felt like Afghanistan is changing, the mood is more

:48:22. > :48:29.positive, and people are now entering the civil society, the

:48:30. > :48:37.government and institutions were hopeful. People have returned to

:48:38. > :48:39.Afghanistan and want to support the development process, but it is the

:48:40. > :48:46.tax like this are extremely demoralising the young generation.

:48:47. > :48:50.Although campaigns are set up to support people to stay inside

:48:51. > :48:52.Afghanistan and not seek refuge outside, I think the regular

:48:53. > :48:58.occurrence of such attacks can have a devastating attack -- effect for

:48:59. > :49:04.Afghanistan's future. What can your government to do better protect its

:49:05. > :49:12.people? For every attack that takes place in Kabul, and yesterday is an

:49:13. > :49:17.example, we intercept dozens. Do you? Yes, definitely. Hundreds of

:49:18. > :49:22.suspects have been detained. Dozens of car bombs have been intercepted

:49:23. > :49:29.in Kabul and other cities. Unfortunately, in some instances,

:49:30. > :49:33.car bombs or terrorists will make it into the city. That is unfortunate.

:49:34. > :49:37.That is why yesterday, the president asked for a further national

:49:38. > :49:42.consultation to further galvanise the support for the Afghan security

:49:43. > :49:48.forces, and also seek more support for the region for our peace

:49:49. > :49:52.efforts. Explained to our British audience what you believe the

:49:53. > :49:58.insurgents... Clearly they are sowing terror across the capital.

:49:59. > :50:02.But what do they want? They have been fighting for what they proclaim

:50:03. > :50:08.to be a specific type of government. But what they receive is the

:50:09. > :50:11.support, logistical and financial, from the region. The fight in

:50:12. > :50:15.Afghanistan is not just for the sake of Afghanistan, it is for the sake

:50:16. > :50:21.of the stability of the region and the world. We have seen the Taliban.

:50:22. > :50:31.Now we see other groups, Isis, Daesh, with more of a fundamentalist

:50:32. > :50:35.agenda. As you explained in your earlier answer, you regularly face

:50:36. > :50:39.this threat as you simply try to do your day job. What is your view

:50:40. > :50:48.about what would make the capital more stable, more safe, more secure,

:50:49. > :50:52.for you and your colleagues? We have two understand this was a security

:50:53. > :50:56.failure. If you look at where the blast happened and the proximity of

:50:57. > :51:04.one kilometre in any direction, you see dozens of police, army,

:51:05. > :51:14.intelligence checkpoints. A truck full of explosives, now they say

:51:15. > :51:19.close to 2000 kg, getting into the Green zone. That is certainly a

:51:20. > :51:23.failure. One has to be accountable. I think the Afghan government

:51:24. > :51:33.definitely needs to come out. It is plain to the Afghan people... What

:51:34. > :51:42.we saw yesterday was a clear indication that... There is not the

:51:43. > :51:47.right security, institutions or leadership.

:51:48. > :51:52.Ambassador, briefly. How do you respond to that? There is not the

:51:53. > :51:56.leadership to make the city stable. We are facing similar attacks all

:51:57. > :52:05.over the world, including city is well organised and protected such as

:52:06. > :52:13.London. When we're fighting the enemy we had 150,000 troops just a

:52:14. > :52:17.year ago in Afghanistan... We wouldn't be seeing these kind of

:52:18. > :52:22.incidents. That is why the government is taking responsibility

:52:23. > :52:25.and have taken measures. Thank you, all of you. Thank you very much for

:52:26. > :52:33.talking to us this morning. We appreciate your time.

:52:34. > :52:42.Still to come, we will speak to to brothers who speak about their own

:52:43. > :52:48.father, whose shot dead their mother and sister.

:52:49. > :52:52.You can define the personality, psychopathic lack of empathy. That

:52:53. > :53:02.give somebody the capacity to do horrible things.

:53:03. > :53:06.If you have experienced controlling behaviour and you are able to tell

:53:07. > :53:13.us about that experience, please do get in touch. You can read more

:53:14. > :53:18.about Luke and Ryan and their experience of growing up with

:53:19. > :53:23.controlling father, on the BBC site. A discursive the most read article

:53:24. > :53:28.on the news site. -- it is currently.

:53:29. > :53:36.At eight o'clock tonight President Trump will tell the world view is

:53:37. > :53:39.withdrawing from the Paris accord on climate change.

:53:40. > :53:41.Chinese and EU leaders are coming together to stress the importance

:53:42. > :53:44.of the Paris climate agreement, after rumours Donald Trump may

:53:45. > :53:48.The Paris deal is designed to limit the global rise in temperature

:53:49. > :53:52.195 countries out of 197 agreed to keep global temperature rises

:53:53. > :54:05.They also agreed to limit greenhouse gases to the level that can

:54:06. > :54:08.And the plan is to review each country's contribution to cutting

:54:09. > :54:13.Earlier the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson told the BBC it's not

:54:14. > :54:28.Let's see what the president actually does. There are a number of

:54:29. > :54:32.different strokes he could play. But yes, of course, we want to see

:54:33. > :54:37.America continued to show leadership on climate change and in reducing

:54:38. > :54:42.CO2 emissions. And we continue to lobby with the Americans to

:54:43. > :54:45.encourage them to do that. To those who are worried about what the

:54:46. > :54:51.president might or might not be about to do, and I stress we are not

:54:52. > :54:58.there yet, I just want to make one point, which is that it is the state

:54:59. > :55:01.governments at state level that so many of the important games have

:55:02. > :55:09.been made in the last few years, in reducing CO2. And we will continue

:55:10. > :55:12.to work as the UK with all levels of government in the United States, we

:55:13. > :55:15.will continue to work with our friends and partners in the White

:55:16. > :55:20.House and the federal government, but also of course with the state

:55:21. > :55:24.governments. America, like the UK, has actually made huge progress in

:55:25. > :55:28.reducing CO2, very often through a lot of technical fixes of one kind

:55:29. > :55:33.or another. We want to encourage that process. When I was Mayor of

:55:34. > :55:34.London, Frexit -- for example, we reduced CO2 by 14%.

:55:35. > :55:38.The BBC's Environment Correspondent, Matt McGrath, joins me now.

:55:39. > :55:45.What will he do? It looks like he will take the United States out of

:55:46. > :55:49.the Paris agreement. He promised it on the campaign trail, he has made

:55:50. > :55:53.several tweets and comment about it. And now the end of the reality show,

:55:54. > :55:58.he is going to do something this evening. The belief is that he will

:55:59. > :56:02.pull out. It wouldn't surprise me if he did something else. But the

:56:03. > :56:12.belief from sources is that he will pull out. And if he does do that,

:56:13. > :56:15.what difference will it make? That is a very good question. It will

:56:16. > :56:18.take him four years to do that. He may well be out of office by then. I

:56:19. > :56:21.think in practical terms in cutting emissions and things like that, it

:56:22. > :56:24.will not make that much of a different initially. The US is the

:56:25. > :56:30.richest country with the second most emissions. It is important they are

:56:31. > :56:33.at the table. It is the moral sense of leadership that would be missing.

:56:34. > :56:41.The other countries are content to move on without the US. I suppose

:56:42. > :56:45.moral leadership, that sense of we are all in it together, small

:56:46. > :56:50.countries matter, I think that will really hurt the United States and

:56:51. > :56:53.the deal as well. As I explained in the introduction, he thinks it is

:56:54. > :56:58.bad for business. Does he acknowledge that temperatures are

:56:59. > :57:02.rising? He has always been a bit iffy. He says there may be some

:57:03. > :57:08.contribution from human activity. He has told his campaign, he has told

:57:09. > :57:11.his base, he was going to do this. In the White House there are a group

:57:12. > :57:15.of people who are very strong economic nationalists who believe

:57:16. > :57:19.that climate change is not a problem and that basically the US would be

:57:20. > :57:25.better off without it. He thinks he can make a good economic argument

:57:26. > :57:33.for pulling the US out. Some say it detracts from his other problems,

:57:34. > :57:38.the sacking of James Comey, is son-in-law... It is an easy win

:57:39. > :57:42.frame. It doesn't change anything straightaway. He gets a lot of pain

:57:43. > :57:46.in the neck from the rest of the world and that that may play well in

:57:47. > :57:51.the rest of the United States. News and sport in a moment, before that,

:57:52. > :57:56.the weather. Today is the start of meteorological

:57:57. > :58:00.summer and we had a lovely Sunrise this morning. If you are not up at

:58:01. > :58:07.4:40am, I have got some great pictures. Our Weather Watchers were

:58:08. > :58:12.out in force. The first one comes in from Norfolk. Look of those dark

:58:13. > :58:21.reds, the oranges. A beautiful sight. Another one from Hampshire.

:58:22. > :58:25.This morning we have got some sunshine across some part of the UK.

:58:26. > :58:29.Further north and west, noticed this area of Cloud, which brings rain to

:58:30. > :58:36.Northern Ireland and western Scotland. Temperatures getting into

:58:37. > :58:39.the low 20s today. Where you have got that cloud, it will be a little

:58:40. > :58:45.bit disappointing. This is the Highlands. With that, there will be

:58:46. > :58:50.some outbreaks of rain. This cold front will move gradually south and

:58:51. > :58:54.east. Not making much inroads into England and Wales. Staying largely

:58:55. > :58:58.drive this afternoon across England and Wales. This is about four

:58:59. > :59:03.o'clock this afternoon. Sunshine for much of south-west England, in

:59:04. > :59:07.towards the south-east as well. Temperatures 24 to 26 degrees. Sunny

:59:08. > :59:12.spells across much of the Midlands. Cloud increasing in Wales. Also

:59:13. > :59:15.towards Cumbria, Lancashire. Rain from the Isle of Man and much of

:59:16. > :59:22.Northern Ireland, limited to eastern parts. Rain heavy in the West of

:59:23. > :59:26.Scotland. Temperatures fresher. For this evening, this area of rain will

:59:27. > :59:34.just make very gradual process -- progress further east. England and

:59:35. > :59:39.Wales will have a muggy night. A bit fresher further north and west.

:59:40. > :59:43.During Friday, this area of rain will continue to move eastward.

:59:44. > :59:50.Again it will be very slow. It will break up. Behind it, sunny spells

:59:51. > :59:56.and showers. Fresher conditions in the north and west. Look at the

:59:57. > :00:00.sunshine in the south-east, temperatures potentially 28 degrees.

:00:01. > :00:04.Behind that weather front, 14 to 16. That warm air will eventually move

:00:05. > :00:10.away. It will bring some thunderstorms on Thursday evening.

:00:11. > :00:14.It will tear. All of us, low pressure in charge in the Atlantic.

:00:15. > :00:18.That brings the air in from the West. And with it, quite a bit of

:00:19. > :00:25.cloud. Sunny spells towards eastern parts. Quite heavy showers at times

:00:26. > :00:29.towards northern and western areas. By Sunday that process continues.

:00:30. > :00:40.Sunny spells, some showers, bit fresher. Temperatures could get to

:00:41. > :00:43.21 degrees in the 70s. Good morning, it is just after 10am, it is

:00:44. > :00:45.Thursday, I'm Victoria Derbyshire. Shot dead in a car park -

:00:46. > :00:48.the man who murdered his wife We'll hear from his two sons,

:00:49. > :00:52.who say their father It doesn't hit you in one go

:00:53. > :00:56.and then you have to deal with it, it seeps into you and it's

:00:57. > :01:00.just really disorientating. I think for me, there's

:01:01. > :01:07.still a huge amount of confusion because you obviously try and make

:01:08. > :01:10.sense, obviously you can't Also this morning, loads

:01:11. > :01:13.of you getting in touch about the latest in our

:01:14. > :01:18.Election Blind Date series, where a certain nightclub owner

:01:19. > :01:31.debates feminism and Brexit Peter, this is wonderful! Can I just

:01:32. > :01:34.slightly parody you and say I am a Remainer because I want all those

:01:35. > :01:40.nice Eastern European girls to come and take their clothes off in my

:01:41. > :01:44.club. No, I like all those European people to come and earn money in my

:01:45. > :01:53.club. The English are more than welcome, as well.

:01:54. > :01:55.And you can watch the full conversation back on our programme

:01:56. > :02:04.Hair loss affects 8 million women in the UK. Nadiya someone has spoken

:02:05. > :02:09.about the life changing effects of losing her hair. He said to me I

:02:10. > :02:28.actually did have... Do have the balding gene. That's not

:02:29. > :02:30.funny. I didn't know women could have the balding gene.

:02:31. > :02:32.We'll hear from Bucks Fizz's Cheryl Baker,

:02:33. > :02:35.who had her own battle with alopecia and recovered, and from singer

:02:36. > :02:36.songwriter Nell Bryden, who was completely bald

:02:37. > :02:48.Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:02:49. > :02:51.Theresa May will again put Brexit at the heart of the Conservative

:02:52. > :02:54.campaign today as she faces continued criticism for failing

:02:55. > :02:57.to take part in last night's television debate

:02:58. > :03:02.The Tories were represented by the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,

:03:03. > :03:08.in an event which saw heated exchanges on a range of issues.

:03:09. > :03:11.Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn clashed with Ms Rudd over cuts,

:03:12. > :03:13.while she said only the Conservatives were strong enough

:03:14. > :03:17.Today at 3.30pm on BBC News, we will be putting your questions

:03:18. > :03:19.about issues which affect older people in this election to our

:03:20. > :03:24.personal finance correspondent and two pensions experts.

:03:25. > :03:27.If you have a question on the pensions triple lock,

:03:28. > :03:32.social care, or inheritance tax, you can get in touch via Twitter

:03:33. > :03:34.using the hashtag #BBCAskThis, or text your questions to 61124,

:03:35. > :03:46.and you can email us as well at askthis@bbc.co.uk.

:03:47. > :03:48.Two brothers whose father shot dead their mother and sister have

:03:49. > :03:50.described him as behaving like a terrorist.

:03:51. > :03:52.Lance Hart killed his wife Claire and daughter Charlotte outside

:03:53. > :03:55.a swimming pool in Spalding last July before turning

:03:56. > :04:00.His sons Luke and Ryan have told this programme that domestic abuse

:04:01. > :04:03.isn't necessarily defined by violence but by the mindset

:04:04. > :04:09.They describe a lifetime of struggle enduring their father's

:04:10. > :04:21.And you can see Victoria's full interview with Luke and Ryan

:04:22. > :04:23.in a few minutes' time, just after this bulletin.

:04:24. > :04:26.Chinese and European Union leaders are preparing to issue a joint

:04:27. > :04:28.statement supporting the Paris accord on climate change.

:04:29. > :04:30.They'll declare that the agreement is more important than ever,

:04:31. > :04:34.and say they're stepping up plans to cut carbon emissions.

:04:35. > :04:36.President Trump will announce at 8pm this evening

:04:37. > :04:38.British time whether he's withdrawing the US

:04:39. > :04:42.More than 5500 cases of child sexual abuse linked to the internet

:04:43. > :04:44.were recorded by police forces in England and Wales

:04:45. > :04:49.The figures, obtained by the NSPCC, show a 44% rise

:04:50. > :04:57.The charity is calling for stricter internet safety measures

:04:58. > :05:08.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30am.

:05:09. > :05:16.I have some more comments on election Blind date. Dave, seems a

:05:17. > :05:19.lot more respect was given to opposing views on election Blind

:05:20. > :05:22.dates today than anywhere else in this election campaign.

:05:23. > :05:27.He is not the first make that point Wayne says the BBC should make a

:05:28. > :05:32.documentary extending the feature, where they swap lives for a week.

:05:33. > :05:35.Another says, credit to your programme, these features are weird

:05:36. > :05:39.and wonderful. Another says, it is hilarious, put

:05:40. > :05:45.it on prime-time BBC One. Anthony Blair says, they would make

:05:46. > :05:48.a great couple, the best blind date. Another, just switched onto a

:05:49. > :05:51.election blind dates to the Mary Beard and Peter Stringfellow

:05:52. > :05:53.discussing the election over poached eggs, I am glued!

:05:54. > :05:55.Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

:05:56. > :05:59.If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:06:00. > :06:04.Holly is back with sport. Just half an hour before England begin the

:06:05. > :06:08.start of their champions Trophy campaign, cricket's second biggest

:06:09. > :06:12.global 50 over competition. The home side start as favourites as they

:06:13. > :06:15.face Bangladesh this morning but would be taking it lightly, having

:06:16. > :06:21.lost to them in two consecutive World Cup matches in 2011 and 2015.

:06:22. > :06:25.But Captain Eoin Morgan said it is a very different team now. Last time

:06:26. > :06:33.you played them was a home series for Bangladesh and we know how

:06:34. > :06:36.strong they are home. It was the first time they were beaten in five

:06:37. > :06:39.series at home so we take a lot of confidence from that. We know they

:06:40. > :06:42.are a strong team and this is their first Champions Trophy said that

:06:43. > :06:46.comes with an element of pressure as well. Eoin Morgan has won the toss

:06:47. > :06:49.and England will go first at the Oval.

:06:50. > :06:52.British and Irish live 's head coach Warren Gatland says he won't make

:06:53. > :06:56.the same mistake as his predecessor by splitting the teams. The squad

:06:57. > :07:01.has arrived in New Zealand yesterday at the start of their tour. Gatlin

:07:02. > :07:04.says suggestions the schedule is too tough are overblown and has spoken

:07:05. > :07:09.about the importance of keeping the squad together for the tests and

:07:10. > :07:11.matches, unlike Graham Henry in 2001.

:07:12. > :07:16.It is paramount for these guys at the moment. I know the players

:07:17. > :07:20.involved with Graham Henry in 2001, he lost half the team on day one

:07:21. > :07:24.because he went, you guys every year, you guys over here, and the

:07:25. > :07:29.players knew straightaway, well, that is a test side and we are just

:07:30. > :07:32.making up the numbers. I think it is important these guys feel like they

:07:33. > :07:36.are putting themselves in the shop window and have a chance to go and

:07:37. > :07:40.prove themselves. Former Arsenal and England captain

:07:41. > :07:44.Tony Adams says manager Arsene Wenger was not the best coach she

:07:45. > :07:49.ever had, despite the pair winning two Premier League and FA Cup

:07:50. > :07:52.doubles together. Wenger yesterday was confirmed as staying in charge

:07:53. > :07:57.at the Emirates with two more years. Adams was speaking on BBC breakfast

:07:58. > :08:02.this morning. He is a fantastic physiologist, no-one could have done

:08:03. > :08:06.the change the transition from Highbury to the Emirates, it needed

:08:07. > :08:10.an economist and he is the best in the game at that. Physical, like I

:08:11. > :08:16.say, preparation, recovery, best in the game. He is the best. But he has

:08:17. > :08:24.never been a coach, to me. He is a good coach, don't get me wrong, but

:08:25. > :08:26.he is not the best I've ever had. There are some fantastic coaches

:08:27. > :08:31.that taught me how to defend, Arsenal never did that.

:08:32. > :08:35.Tennis legend Martina Navratilova has accused another former Wimbledon

:08:36. > :08:39.champion, Margaret Court, of being a homophobia in the wake of the

:08:40. > :08:46.Australian's controversial comments about the lesbian and gay

:08:47. > :08:50.communities. Court described tennis as "Full of lesbians" yesterday

:08:51. > :08:55.after expressing her opposition to same-sex marriage. Navratilova

:08:56. > :08:59.described Chord as an amazing tennis player, and a racist and homophobic.

:09:00. > :09:04.She called some of the comment sick and dangerous. Margaret Court's

:09:05. > :09:08.abuse led to some players this week suggesting a boycott of the Margaret

:09:09. > :09:11.Court Arena during the Australian open in Melbourne.

:09:12. > :09:14.Meanwhile Andy Murray plays world number 15 Martin Klizan of Slovakia

:09:15. > :09:18.in the second round of the French Open later. We will have the latest

:09:19. > :09:19.on that and the rest of the sport in the next hour.

:09:20. > :09:22.Thank you very much. On 19th July last year,

:09:23. > :09:25.a father of three grown-up children, Lance Hart, patiently lay in wait

:09:26. > :09:28.in a leisure centre car park He knew that his 19-year-old

:09:29. > :09:35.daughter Charlotte and wife Claire, who had escaped their controlling

:09:36. > :09:38.marriage four days earlier, As they walked towards the centre,

:09:39. > :09:45.he ambushed them and shot them both dead, before turning

:09:46. > :09:48.the gun on himself. In his car he left a 12-page

:09:49. > :09:52.suicide on a USB stick, You destroyed my life

:09:53. > :09:58.without giving me a chance. For the first time,

:09:59. > :10:06.their two remaining sons, Charlotte's older brothers Ryan

:10:07. > :10:08.and Luke Hart, have decided to speak out about the day that

:10:09. > :10:11.changed their lives forever. In an exclusive interview with us,

:10:12. > :10:13.they describe their father as a terrorist, saying his attack

:10:14. > :10:16.was the culmination of a lifetime There are some details

:10:17. > :10:34.in their interview with us that Thank you for talking to us, the

:10:35. > :10:37.stubble. I want to start by asking you to tell us and our audience

:10:38. > :10:43.about your mum and your sister, Charlotte. Tell us what they were

:10:44. > :10:47.like. They were the most selfless people I think we've ever met. For

:10:48. > :10:57.them, helping other people was what they lived for. I think we lived for

:10:58. > :11:05.them as well. It is hard to find words, really. Mum and Charlotte, as

:11:06. > :11:09.far back as I can remember, were like my entire world and because of

:11:10. > :11:14.how much love they gave us, I think we never realised the situation that

:11:15. > :11:23.we were in. They created our world for us. We still live for them, in a

:11:24. > :11:26.way, even though they are not here. Tell us about your father and the

:11:27. > :11:31.way you were brought up, and his controlling behaviour? I think for

:11:32. > :11:36.most of our lives we didn't realise that we were in that situation. I

:11:37. > :11:42.think as kids we just detached ourselves, didn't understand, I

:11:43. > :11:49.guess, the situation we were in. He was very controlling. I think as he

:11:50. > :11:58.got older he demanded more from the family. It started out as just, I

:11:59. > :12:07.think, a power thing, he felt like he needed power over us. He

:12:08. > :12:12.developed financial control and slowly ratcheted away freedoms from

:12:13. > :12:16.all of us. Luke and I went to university and I think when we left

:12:17. > :12:28.and it was just mum and Charlotte with him, he started to get worse.

:12:29. > :12:37.Charlotte is your little sister. You are 27, 26, and she was 19 when she

:12:38. > :12:42.died. He, as you said, he controlled the money. If you had a McDonald's,

:12:43. > :12:46.you had to hide that. He kept your mum's passport in a safe, you

:12:47. > :12:53.wouldn't let her have a smartphone, why? I think we always just, growing

:12:54. > :12:57.up with an adult like that, you just perceive that is some necessary

:12:58. > :13:01.control, part of running a family, behind-the-scenes there are things

:13:02. > :13:08.going on you don't understand. It is normal to you, you know? I think he

:13:09. > :13:13.was always our masculine role model, just the thing that we understood to

:13:14. > :13:18.be a father, so to us it just seemed normality, you know? It is only in

:13:19. > :13:24.retrospect, really, that we can see those sorts of behaviours were all

:13:25. > :13:28.based on power. It wasn't even that money was an issue and he was being

:13:29. > :13:32.financially controlling. It cost maybe a pound to go and do

:13:33. > :13:35.something, maybe take the dogs to obedience training, which Charlotte

:13:36. > :13:39.used to love to do, and he used to stop it, but he would gamble online,

:13:40. > :13:45.he would waste whatever money we had doing whatever he wanted. I think

:13:46. > :13:49.for him it wasn't even about the money, it wasn't about the things,

:13:50. > :13:53.just the obstruction of control, as long as he felt in control it gave

:13:54. > :13:58.him, I don't know, that's all he wanted, it didn't matter what he was

:13:59. > :14:03.doing he just felt that, and the thing that makes it really dangerous

:14:04. > :14:07.if he was always very self escalating in his behaviour. As his

:14:08. > :14:11.final act proved, he was incredibly self-destructive and for us it was

:14:12. > :14:15.always a matter of shaping around him, so we always had to give in, so

:14:16. > :14:19.after a while we never noticed it because we were so used to giving in

:14:20. > :14:25.and all based tiny ratcheting things he always did, and because we always

:14:26. > :14:31.gave in, we got to the point where, like you said, he has mum's keys and

:14:32. > :14:36.passports and document in the safe and we had no financial capability

:14:37. > :14:39.to do anything, and we realised that he had slowly taken everything away

:14:40. > :14:45.from us, and that was when we decided we had to leave. Was their

:14:46. > :14:49.physical violence? No, and I think that is why we were so blind to our

:14:50. > :14:54.situation because we were looking out for physical violence, all of us

:14:55. > :15:00.were, that was I think going to be our sign that it was abuse. So I

:15:01. > :15:05.think, like Luke said, the ratcheting away over decades, we

:15:06. > :15:08.didn't realise I guess the situation, we didn't understand it

:15:09. > :15:12.for what it actually was, so I think that is one of the messages we want

:15:13. > :15:17.to get out, is that physical violence is not the only sign of

:15:18. > :15:23.domestic abuse. Quite often there is no physical violence. In our case,

:15:24. > :15:30.people would have seen it as maybe just a normal family... With a dad

:15:31. > :15:34.who was a bit angry sometimes? We used the word protective, it was

:15:35. > :15:37.euphemistic, he was protective but would never let us protect

:15:38. > :15:41.ourselves, it was protection on his terms, which was just total control

:15:42. > :15:44.in the end. Had you thought in your own heads or had a conversation

:15:45. > :15:50.about it, if there was a bruise, we could go to the police? Mum was

:15:51. > :15:53.recording everything that he did in a diary so we had it all written

:15:54. > :15:59.down but the things that we had written down were, en masse you

:16:00. > :16:04.could maybe present a case but as they were it was almost like... It

:16:05. > :16:08.was very difficult to see it for what it was, I think, and the thing

:16:09. > :16:11.that we learned in the end with our father, the mentality of a

:16:12. > :16:16.terrorist, he was willing to kill himself to achieve what he achieved,

:16:17. > :16:19.and someone who is that fundamental, you can't stop, and I think that

:16:20. > :16:32.think that is the thing that makes our case so difficult for us to

:16:33. > :16:35.comprehend, it almost feels like we weren't safe whatever we did, you

:16:36. > :16:38.know? If we had stayed, he was planning to kill us there and given

:16:39. > :16:41.the fact that we had left he then justified it on different terms.

:16:42. > :16:45.Before he attacked your mum and Charlotte, both of you had secretly

:16:46. > :16:51.managed to get your mum out of the family home into a rented place,

:16:52. > :16:55.four days before he attacked them. That was, presumably at that point

:16:56. > :17:00.you were thinking, this is freedom for my mum and Charlotte, finally?

:17:01. > :17:08.Yes. It was the first time I had ever seen one that happy. We had

:17:09. > :17:12.worked secretly for the past month to set everything up without him

:17:13. > :17:16.realising. He had no idea. We had no idea until the last few days it was

:17:17. > :17:23.going ahead. It felt like a victory on the day. What we didn't realise

:17:24. > :17:29.were most murders occur after the family has moved out. So in reality

:17:30. > :17:36.we were less safe after we moved out. It is very important to realise

:17:37. > :17:41.that you Let your guard down when you move out. Why did you keep it

:17:42. > :17:45.secret? What did you fear he would do if he discovered your mum was

:17:46. > :17:50.going to leave, finally? I never once thought he would resort to any

:17:51. > :17:54.sort of violence. He was always worried about his reputation and how

:17:55. > :18:00.people saw him. I thought of violence he would never resort to.

:18:01. > :18:06.But I was always worried he would chorus mum back, find a new way to

:18:07. > :18:11.trap her if he had found out what we were planning. So we had to keep it

:18:12. > :18:17.secret, so that day-to-day life could carry on and mum felt

:18:18. > :18:20.empowered, that she could escape. It was more to get a space between

:18:21. > :18:27.them, to negotiate what was going on. Our father's behaviour was

:18:28. > :18:32.always bad. He would drink an entire bottle of alcohol each night. When

:18:33. > :18:37.you are trying to arrange a separation it is not conducive for

:18:38. > :18:42.mum to be trapped in that house. For us, we were arranging a more

:18:43. > :18:45.suitable way for them to discuss the situation as human beings. That is

:18:46. > :18:51.where we thought we were. We didn't realise three weeks ago he basically

:18:52. > :18:55.planned to kill all of us. We had no idea that was going on in the

:18:56. > :19:00.background. How did you know three weeks earlier that he had planned to

:19:01. > :19:05.kill all of you? From the investigation. On his laptop he had

:19:06. > :19:11.started drafts of the Martyn Oates, way before we thought of leaving the

:19:12. > :19:17.house. I don't know of the saw his power diminishing as we became more

:19:18. > :19:20.independent. He had planned to kill all of us regardless. I thought it

:19:21. > :19:25.would have been the night that we moved mum out. He was getting

:19:26. > :19:29.exponentially worse. He started hiding her keys, her passport,

:19:30. > :19:39.drinking whole bottles of whiskey. Yeah. After your mum had moved into

:19:40. > :19:42.the rented place, it was four days later that he attacked your mum and

:19:43. > :19:49.Charlotte in that car park in Spalding. And I think, Ryan, you

:19:50. > :19:56.first heard something on the news? Yes. Did you think this could be

:19:57. > :20:02.your family? I think four hours I was in denial. I started out trying

:20:03. > :20:07.to contact them, Luke, then the police. I don't think it was until,

:20:08. > :20:15.I don't know, weeks later that I accepted it. Obviously the police

:20:16. > :20:20.couldn't confirm or deny anything. So it was just hours of getting

:20:21. > :20:27.signals which -- which suggested it was them, and me subconsciously

:20:28. > :20:35.trying to ignore them. You rang the police to say that this could be my

:20:36. > :20:39.family? I ran -- rang and asked. I gave them mum and Charlotte's

:20:40. > :20:43.descriptions and last them to confirm it wasn't them. I think when

:20:44. > :20:46.they started getting more interested, asking for contact

:20:47. > :20:53.details, family members, I think I started to think it probably is

:20:54. > :21:01.them. I don't know how you cope with that. I think it is a lot of... In a

:21:02. > :21:07.way you are protected by how little it makes sense. It takes so long to

:21:08. > :21:11.get into you what happened, it doesn't hit you in one go and then

:21:12. > :21:17.you have to deal with it. It seeps into you. It is re-disorientating. I

:21:18. > :21:25.think for me it was just, and it still is, you demand of confusion.

:21:26. > :21:30.You Make sense of total evil. It is something you have to let B and not

:21:31. > :21:36.try to rationalise it all the time. It doesn't make any sense at all.

:21:37. > :21:46.No. Why do you want to talk about this? I think for us we had no idea

:21:47. > :21:52.of the danger of the situation. That we were in a domestic abuse

:21:53. > :21:56.situation. I think many people misunderstand what it looks like.

:21:57. > :22:02.Hopefully by sharing our story we can show people what it looks like

:22:03. > :22:06.and how serious it could be for them. Hopefully no one else has to

:22:07. > :22:12.go through what we have been through. That is right. I think we

:22:13. > :22:16.had always had in our mind a line of what we were expecting before we

:22:17. > :22:21.would go to the police, before we would just really understand that

:22:22. > :22:25.now he has crossed a line. But in the -- but that never happened. I

:22:26. > :22:31.suppose that always made us feel safer than we potentially were. I

:22:32. > :22:35.think someone like our father, they are defined by their mindset rather

:22:36. > :22:40.than their actions. It is hard to define what someone is capable of. I

:22:41. > :22:45.think coercive and controlling behaviour, when you look at it, it

:22:46. > :22:50.doesn't sound outrageous. You look at the stuff and you think, that

:22:51. > :22:53.sort of sounds ordinary, but actually I think it defines the

:22:54. > :23:00.personality, the psychopathic lack of empathy. That gives someone the

:23:01. > :23:07.capacity to do horrible things. People perhaps don't now realise

:23:08. > :23:12.that coercive controlling behaviour, you can go to the police to tell

:23:13. > :23:19.them if someone is controlling you. The deafening hiss -- the definition

:23:20. > :23:22.of domestic abuse is any incidence pattern of controlling or coercive

:23:23. > :23:27.behaviour, violence or abuse between those aged 16 or over who are or

:23:28. > :23:33.have been intimate partners or family members, regardless of gender

:23:34. > :23:36.Power Mac sexuality. This can encompass but is not limited to

:23:37. > :23:42.psychological abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse and

:23:43. > :23:46.emotional abuse. And those guidelines help guide prosecutors

:23:47. > :23:50.and the police when it comes to try to prosecute. It is so important

:23:51. > :23:55.that you explain that controlling behaviour. As you say, if you took a

:23:56. > :24:00.couple of incident's, people would think, that is no big deal. But the

:24:01. > :24:15.cumulative effect over decades is to oppress somebody. Basically domestic

:24:16. > :24:19.abuse is torture. You and up just... It is in the background. There you

:24:20. > :24:24.are and you don't see it. The power of it is the manipulation. That is

:24:25. > :24:26.what you have to be aware of. I have asked permission to read to the

:24:27. > :24:35.audience some of the words that your father wrote on his computer. You

:24:36. > :24:40.described it as a murder note, Ryan. You say he began writing this three

:24:41. > :24:47.weeks before. This is what he said in part. This was released by... In

:24:48. > :24:53.fact, neither of you have read this 12 page letter in full. I think you

:24:54. > :24:58.skimmed it. But you have given us permission. The reason I am going to

:24:59. > :25:01.read some of the words is to give an insight. Also, perhaps this helps to

:25:02. > :25:06.shape the media narrative afterwards, which is not as accurate

:25:07. > :25:10.as you have traded today. This is what he wrote. I'm completely

:25:11. > :25:15.screwed. I had to do this. You destroyed my life without giving me

:25:16. > :25:19.a chance. Revenge is a dish served cold. Ryan, you know what you have

:25:20. > :25:22.done. You got what you wished for. Ryan interviewed -- interfered all

:25:23. > :25:28.the time. Charlotte, you cannot forgive me. I know I am completely

:25:29. > :25:32.screwed. Right or wrong, I had to do it. You completely destroyed my life

:25:33. > :25:37.without giving me a chance. So I will destroy yours. I love you all,

:25:38. > :25:44.always have, always will. What you think of those words? They are the

:25:45. > :25:48.words of an abuser. Anybody who knows an abuser knows they twist

:25:49. > :25:52.words, they know how to manipulate people, and they have the ability

:25:53. > :25:59.just to... His 12 page note is written in cold blood. He tried to

:26:00. > :26:03.create a narrative ahead of time. He tried to define the narrative. And

:26:04. > :26:09.that is what abuses do. They spend the whole time shaping your mind. To

:26:10. > :26:13.us it is disgusting. Anybody who has been in that situation will no wear

:26:14. > :26:20.these words have come from. It is pure evil. He hated us. That is why

:26:21. > :26:23.be had to leave. He created that. What did you think about the way

:26:24. > :26:29.part of the media reported on what had happened to your family? We

:26:30. > :26:35.avoided the media for quite some time. But when we did read some of

:26:36. > :26:41.the stories, words like understandable were used to describe

:26:42. > :26:46.what happened. Many tried to justify it as an act of love. That is not

:26:47. > :26:51.unique to our situation. Many victims of domestic abuse are

:26:52. > :26:59.commonly described as an act of love. Love is the one word that does

:27:00. > :27:03.not fit at all what happened. He was not loving in any way, shape or

:27:04. > :27:07.form. Describing it as an act of love detracts from the seriousness

:27:08. > :27:12.of domestic abuse. It almost sympathises with the murderer, which

:27:13. > :27:20.is hard for us to accept, reading that if you weeks later. I would

:27:21. > :27:24.imagine people in similar situations reading those words, it would not

:27:25. > :27:29.make them feel like they were supported or had a way out. Was

:27:30. > :27:38.there a narrative as well, he snapped? I think so, yeah. That

:27:39. > :27:40.doesn't help people in a -- domestic abuse situations. It leaves you

:27:41. > :27:46.looking out for binary incident where he snapped, I need to be

:27:47. > :27:51.careful. Talking to people in domestic abuse situations, they are

:27:52. > :27:55.very controlled people. It isn't a case of snapping. They may well

:27:56. > :27:59.portrayed as snapping as part of their manipulation tactics, you

:28:00. > :28:03.caused me to do this, this is what you have created, but really they

:28:04. > :28:07.created it themselves. It is something that exists over decades.

:28:08. > :28:11.What we wanted to say is that that again is how we expected it to be.

:28:12. > :28:17.That caused us to be blind to it. The truth is that you need to be on

:28:18. > :28:21.the lookout for quite often certain signs. When people put that together

:28:22. > :28:28.as a narrative, it can blind more people to the situation. And it is a

:28:29. > :28:32.pattern of behaviour. Our father would always apologise and then go

:28:33. > :28:37.straight back into it over and over again. Yeah, it takes a long time to

:28:38. > :28:43.build and it exists for a long time. People need to realise it is not

:28:44. > :28:50.just a one-off event. This happened some months ago. How are you both? I

:28:51. > :28:56.think we have been taking each day as it comes, to be honest. Slowly

:28:57. > :29:02.building a life for ourselves. There is still a lot of confusion. Some

:29:03. > :29:08.weeks and days are still quite hard. We are both trying to adjust to our

:29:09. > :29:11.new lives. We are living together because we have always been

:29:12. > :29:16.incredibly independent, gone wrong way and Gunaratne thing. Now the two

:29:17. > :29:23.of us have two dogs. We spend a lot of time is with our dogs. It is very

:29:24. > :29:27.strange. Besiktas we are brothers. Being brothers is sometimes a

:29:28. > :29:33.helpful relationship. You followed, you can get on with it. It makes it

:29:34. > :29:41.easy to work over things. From an outside perspective, it is quite

:29:42. > :29:47.odd. But for us it works. It resets your life, I suppose. We spent our

:29:48. > :29:54.entire lives with mum and Charlotte. Where we are now was meant to be the

:29:55. > :29:59.rest of our lives together. That has changed. But we still need to live.

:30:00. > :30:03.It is up to us to create something. Whatever that is. It is the first

:30:04. > :30:10.time you have spoken publicly about what has happened. I know you have

:30:11. > :30:16.written about how much you have relied on your younger brother. Can

:30:17. > :30:21.you tell us little bit about that? Ryan works abroad. He went abroad in

:30:22. > :30:28.April and his birthday was on the 22nd of April. It was quite hard. As

:30:29. > :30:33.guys and as brothers. Also, in an environment of abuse, an abuser cuts

:30:34. > :30:38.your support network. It was hard to talk. Because it was Ryan's birthday

:30:39. > :30:42.and he was away, I thought, I can communicate indirectly through a

:30:43. > :30:45.letter. But then I realised if I could write about our experiences

:30:46. > :30:53.and posted on Facebook, maybe it can help other people. So I posted a

:30:54. > :30:59.letter on Facebook. Basically explaining how Ryan has always been

:31:00. > :31:05.the one to take a lot of our father's Araf. In the letter you

:31:06. > :31:10.quoted that he was targeting Ryan. I was always trying to ameliorate, I

:31:11. > :31:15.suppose, as an older brother, just moulded altogether and keep it

:31:16. > :31:21.working. And failing, I suppose. But Ryan was always like there, by

:31:22. > :31:27.protecting mum and Charlotte, taking it on for what it was, I suppose.

:31:28. > :31:33.And for me to cope, I suppose, I kind of deluded myself a little bit,

:31:34. > :31:36.try to manipulate what was there and keep it as manageable as possible.

:31:37. > :31:40.But Ryan was always home every weekend, even though you were

:31:41. > :31:45.working in Holland, you came home every weekend to check on mum and

:31:46. > :31:49.Charlotte. He took all the flak. It is something I have never ever said

:31:50. > :31:55.thank you for. And I suppose at that moment, it was Ryan's birthday, I

:31:56. > :31:59.felt I needed to talk. I wanted Ryan to know it was all right to talk. It

:32:00. > :32:01.was a good time for me to write a letter to say how grateful I was.

:32:02. > :32:11.How did you take it? In tears, it was quite difficult to

:32:12. > :32:14.read. And the comments that people posted, from friends and complete

:32:15. > :32:21.strangers, I read every single one, it has been very helpful, very

:32:22. > :32:28.difficult to read, and brings back memories of quite difficult times.

:32:29. > :32:32.Thank you very much for talking to us today, you have spoken with

:32:33. > :32:39.remarkable courage and we are very grateful, thank you.

:32:40. > :32:42.Ryan and Luke Hart. If you recognise some of the controlling behaviour

:32:43. > :32:46.that Brian and Luke described, if you think you might be in

:32:47. > :32:50.controlling relationship, an abusive relationship, or if you are affected

:32:51. > :32:54.by any of the issues we talked about in that interview, you can find

:32:55. > :33:00.information about organisations that can help you from the BBC line.

:33:01. > :33:05.If you scroll down and click on the link to domestic abuse, you will

:33:06. > :33:14.find quite a lot of support groups and charities who can help you.

:33:15. > :33:23.As you can imagine, so many messages about Ryan and Luke.

:33:24. > :33:26.A discussion on coercive control, these sociopaths creating their own

:33:27. > :33:32.narratives. It is important to hear this, these brothers are so brave.

:33:33. > :33:35.Henry on Twitter, huge respect to the two young men sharing this

:33:36. > :33:39.terrible story, I hope this proves to be one of the many steps to

:33:40. > :33:45.coping. Jo on Twitter says, the police told

:33:46. > :33:48.me that I needed proof. Diaries of behaviour and abuse were ignored.

:33:49. > :33:53.Nine years on I hope that things have changed. Sarah says, what

:33:54. > :33:56.strength these guys have talking in this way.

:33:57. > :34:04.Nick clan-based book, how accurate are the words of Luke and Ryan? It

:34:05. > :34:11.is the Cumulus aspect of so many little incidents. The bruises are on

:34:12. > :34:17.the inside and cannot be seen. At 51, after 23 years of this plus

:34:18. > :34:20.physical, I am undergoing counselling. 12 sessions are not

:34:21. > :34:24.enough, I do not know what I will do when the sessions end.

:34:25. > :34:28.Jane on Facebook says, watching the two brothers share their story

:34:29. > :34:32.today, they are brave and generous, given the devastation their cruel

:34:33. > :34:36.father caused. Thank you very much for all those

:34:37. > :34:40.comments, and there were many more, actually. Many of you very admiring

:34:41. > :34:43.of those two brothers. Hair loss affects over

:34:44. > :34:47.8 million women in the UK, we'll be discussing the effect it

:34:48. > :34:58.has on their life and It is because of a video released by

:34:59. > :35:02.broadcaster Nadiya someone. And the rising numbers of women

:35:03. > :35:04.setting up their own businesses from their kitchens. We will be hearing

:35:05. > :35:16.from some female entrepreneurs. One week to go until the general

:35:17. > :35:19.election, one week until you decide. Let's get the latest on the

:35:20. > :35:21.campaigning with Norman Smith. People are still talking about last

:35:22. > :35:30.night's TB debate. I watched it from the safety of the

:35:31. > :35:34.soap and what a Barney it was. I wonder if Theresa May was watching

:35:35. > :35:37.it in her Downing Street flat with Philip sitting alongside maybe with

:35:38. > :35:40.some tumblers of something strong because, if she was, she was

:35:41. > :35:47.probably relieved she wasn't there because it was a bit of a shouting

:35:48. > :35:50.match, and I suppose the fact she wasn't there almost dominated a lot

:35:51. > :35:59.of it, and was inevitably picked up by those who had turned up. Have a

:36:00. > :36:02.listen to the SNP's Angus Robertson. The Prime Minister didn't have the

:36:03. > :36:06.guts to come along this evening to tell us, so...

:36:07. > :36:11.APPLAUSE. I would like to challenge Amber

:36:12. > :36:14.Rudd... Your leader didn't come either. I would like to challenge

:36:15. > :36:18.Amber Rudd to tell the answer to that question because they must have

:36:19. > :36:21.costed it, they must know how much money it will bring in, please tell

:36:22. > :36:25.the pensioners of this country how much they will have to pay to fund

:36:26. > :36:29.Tory austerities, how much? It went on like that for most of the

:36:30. > :36:31.evening. I don't think we learned very much. I think attention today

:36:32. > :36:48.will move to Brexit, I say that because we have a speech from the

:36:49. > :36:51.Prime Minister at lunchtime where she will say we are all going to be

:36:52. > :36:54.more prosperous after we leave the EU. Why that is a big claim is

:36:55. > :36:55.because there are lots of independent forecasters, the Office

:36:56. > :36:58.for Budget Responsibility and others, who have been warning that,

:36:59. > :37:01.no, the British economy may well take a hit, trade will be hit,

:37:02. > :37:03.living standards will be hit, the pound. . This lunchtime Mrs May

:37:04. > :37:05.trying to change the mood music a bit, trying to strike a more

:37:06. > :37:09.optimistic note and predict that after Brexit we will be better off.

:37:10. > :37:12.It will not be a land of milk and honey but things by and large will

:37:13. > :37:17.be very different and I think that will set the tone of the campaign,

:37:18. > :37:20.Mrs May wants to get away from the dark, gloomy warnings and strike a

:37:21. > :37:25.more upbeat tone, a sort of change of gear from Mrs May as she tries to

:37:26. > :37:26.reboot her campaign after a difficult few days.

:37:27. > :37:28.Thanks, Norman, for the moment. It's something that affects around

:37:29. > :37:31.eight million women in the UK - alopecia, otherwise

:37:32. > :37:33.known as hair loss. For men, baldness is far more

:37:34. > :37:35.accepted in society, TV presenter Nadia Sawalha has

:37:36. > :37:45.posted a video online, fighting back tears as she speaks

:37:46. > :37:47.about losing her hair She revealed a doctor had

:37:48. > :37:50.told her she was going through the perimenopause,

:37:51. > :37:53.which is the start of the menopause. Here's what she told fans online

:37:54. > :38:03.about it's life changing effects. I seem to lose, I think I have lost

:38:04. > :38:07.a third of my hair. And people do say, oh, my God, your hair is so

:38:08. > :38:14.thick, so amazing, but it is not. You see here, this is where it is

:38:15. > :38:20.balding, I am losing it all over. Now, I feel bad even saying this

:38:21. > :38:25.when people have lost their hair completely to alopecia or cancer

:38:26. > :38:34.treatment, but... It doesn't really make it any easier, the fact that

:38:35. > :38:37.I'm losing my hair. I talked about it ages ago on Loose Women,

:38:38. > :38:42.actually, and lots of people since have said to me, I'm the same, I

:38:43. > :38:50.think it is the menopause, lost a lot of hair. And in fact I went to

:38:51. > :38:56.the top hair dye, specialist, trichologist, I think they are

:38:57. > :39:10.called? And he said to me that I actually do have...

:39:11. > :39:18.I do have the balding gene. That's funny, that's not funny, I didn't

:39:19. > :39:21.know that women could have the balding gene.

:39:22. > :39:24.With me is the singer and songwriter Nell Bryden,

:39:25. > :39:26.who lost her hair in 2011 due to alopecia.

:39:27. > :39:39.And former Bucks Fizz member and TV presenter Cheryl Baker -

:39:40. > :39:42.she's experienced hair loss after the menopause.

:39:43. > :39:51.I will. With now, what happened, how did it affect you? I woke up one day

:39:52. > :39:55.and so had on my pillow. I went into the shower and started holding up

:39:56. > :39:59.clumps of hair. I knew that I had been doing a lot of my career, on

:40:00. > :40:02.the proverbial treadmill, quite stressed out, but the thing with an

:40:03. > :40:05.autoimmune thing is you don't know what will happen until sometime in

:40:06. > :40:13.your life everything changes overnight. So I very little time

:40:14. > :40:18.between the initial losing my hair and realising I had alopecia and was

:40:19. > :40:22.going to go completely bald. In that time, I think we set these sort of

:40:23. > :40:27.markers for ourselves, how am I going to deal with the next step? At

:40:28. > :40:32.first, I will chop my hair, have a different output. Then I will wear

:40:33. > :40:36.hats. Then I realised towards the end of it that I was looking in the

:40:37. > :40:39.mirror and I saw someone who looked ill, I saw someone looking back at

:40:40. > :40:47.me who didn't look like a healthy person, and I needed to take back

:40:48. > :40:52.the sense of being a victim in the situation, so I shaved my hair off

:40:53. > :40:54.and I felt so much better, so much more liberated and like I could

:40:55. > :41:04.really move on from there. And in control? Exactly. Cheryl, your

:41:05. > :41:07.experience is different to Nel's? Slightly, I went through the

:41:08. > :41:11.menopause at about 50 and lost a bit of hair down and kind of put up with

:41:12. > :41:17.it and I used hairpieces and things but then a few years later my mum

:41:18. > :41:22.died and I think with that, the shock of my mum dying just made it

:41:23. > :41:27.much, much worse and, like Nell just said, you look in the mirror and see

:41:28. > :41:32.somebody else, and you just don't think that women lose their hair,

:41:33. > :41:38.because that is the general belief, but now I know that it does happen.

:41:39. > :41:45.And there are all sorts of things, like men, I didn't shave my habit I

:41:46. > :41:49.bought hairpieces, wore hats, stopped appearing in the public eye

:41:50. > :41:55.because I felt ashamed of myself, how ridiculous is that? I just did,

:41:56. > :41:59.it is very, very distressing. And that is something that some people

:42:00. > :42:02.don't understand, they don't understand the intensity of the

:42:03. > :42:07.devastation when your hair starts to fall out. Just explain, Cheryl, from

:42:08. > :42:13.your point of view, why it affects you so much, and I will ask Nell the

:42:14. > :42:21.same question. You are in disbelief in the beginning because, as Nell

:42:22. > :42:24.said, there is hair on your pillow and your shower tray pops up and you

:42:25. > :42:27.pull it out and you see how much I do have lost. It is that he queue in

:42:28. > :42:32.the face moment when you think, this is my hair, what is going on?! And

:42:33. > :42:38.you start to do your hair and think, I haven't got as much hair as I used

:42:39. > :42:42.to have. I was in absolute shock and, like Nadia, I have shed a lot

:42:43. > :42:48.of tears, it is such a distressing thing to go through and I did

:42:49. > :42:56.everything, I went and bought a wig, hairpieces, everything you possibly

:42:57. > :43:00.could to try and address it, I'd backcombed my hair, I did

:43:01. > :43:04.everything, and then I took the supplement, an internal supplement

:43:05. > :43:07.that things, it might have been time, it might have been the

:43:08. > :43:16.supplement, but it did seem to work. After time. Absolutely. Nell, you

:43:17. > :43:20.have seen Nadia's video, it does help when people share things that,

:43:21. > :43:25.would you agree? You talking about this now, sitting here with no hair,

:43:26. > :43:30.how do you think you look now? I think I look like someone who is

:43:31. > :43:35.comfortable with who I am. There is a tremendous amount of power in that

:43:36. > :43:39.in life. One of the biggest revelations for me was literally

:43:40. > :43:43.being that exposed, having that level of vulnerability, like the

:43:44. > :43:47.whole world can see me without my hair, which is your crowning glory.

:43:48. > :43:51.As a woman, much of your identity comes from, I was a blonde, that is

:43:52. > :43:57.how you think of yourself. But once I got past it, and like Cheryl I

:43:58. > :44:00.also went to trichologist, spent so much money on wigs, went to all

:44:01. > :44:04.sorts of centres, did everything that was out there, but once I came

:44:05. > :44:10.to the conclusion that this was the new reality, and that I just had to

:44:11. > :44:14.somehow be comfortable with who I am, my mother actually was wonderful

:44:15. > :44:18.because she was the one that said, this is not what you would have

:44:19. > :44:24.chosen but you, bald, look more like yourself now and then you do in

:44:25. > :44:29.wigs. People say well-meaning things, but if you don't be in it...

:44:30. > :44:34.Exactly. It doesn't matter what other people say. I think I had an

:44:35. > :44:37.interesting moment when I was about a month of the way through, because

:44:38. > :44:41.I also went under the duvet and cried for about a month, I was

:44:42. > :44:44.devastated, but then I had an interesting moment when I thought,

:44:45. > :44:48.it is not what happens to you in life but what you do next that is

:44:49. > :44:52.important, and there are so many different things, for me I was lucky

:44:53. > :45:09.it was does a cosmetic thing, and it is hard to remember that is all it

:45:10. > :45:14.is, a cosmetic issue, but I still have my health, I still was able to

:45:15. > :45:16.go out and pursue my dreams, and so I poured myself into music, I was

:45:17. > :45:19.very lucky that I have that outlet. It ended up being the best thing

:45:20. > :45:22.that ever happened to me, I met my husband and had a daughter, and I

:45:23. > :45:25.would not have done that if I had not gone through this ordeal. On

:45:26. > :45:28.Facebook, this person, who does not wish to leave their land, says,

:45:29. > :45:30.female hair loss is hell and you do not have any help from the health

:45:31. > :45:32.service, you are assaulted by members of the public and your

:45:33. > :45:37.confidence about the way and with that goes your mental health. Thank

:45:38. > :45:40.you very much, Nell, I hope you have inspired some people, and you,

:45:41. > :45:46.channel, Nell Bryden and Cheryl Baker, thank you.

:45:47. > :45:48.Loads of messages about today's Election Blind Dates,

:45:49. > :45:50.with TV historian Mary Beard and strip club owner

:45:51. > :45:54.Here's a reminder of how they got on

:45:55. > :46:06.I'm a feminist. I don't necessarily agree with front line troops being

:46:07. > :46:11.female. But they want to be. Therefore the feminist in me says

:46:12. > :46:14.they must do what they wish to do. I interpret feminism as saying quite

:46:15. > :46:21.simply women can do what they want to do and not be told what to buy a

:46:22. > :46:27.man. So if they want to take their clothes off? They can do. They have

:46:28. > :46:33.to be smart. What they do is entirely up to them within the scope

:46:34. > :46:40.of the law. Then you have gone on from this wonderful career start to

:46:41. > :46:43.make money? Then they go into their own businesses. These people are

:46:44. > :46:46.entrepreneurs themselves and they are going forward. They come from

:46:47. > :46:52.all around Europe. This is one of the reasons I am a Remainer. So you

:46:53. > :46:59.can get girls to take their clothes off! Peter, this is wonderful. Can I

:47:00. > :47:03.just slightly parody you? I'm a Remainer because I want all those

:47:04. > :47:09.nice Eastern European girls to come and take their clothes off in my

:47:10. > :47:13.club? No. I like all those European people to come and earn money in my

:47:14. > :47:18.club. The English are more than welcome to. I have no reason to

:47:19. > :47:24.think that you are anything other than sincere. What I would challenge

:47:25. > :47:31.is what I would say is a simplistic notion that feminism is about what

:47:32. > :47:35.women want to do, because the whole point about women's choices is that

:47:36. > :47:45.they are deeply determined by a whole range of sexist structures.

:47:46. > :47:53.They haven't got a free choice. You say, provided you agree with it. No,

:47:54. > :48:02.and not. You are quite a pretty lady. Get that on camera! Get it on

:48:03. > :48:08.camera! Call me inconsistent! You have got a great smile, you're got

:48:09. > :48:15.lovely sparkly eyes. I am what I am. I've had... You know, I've had a lot

:48:16. > :48:22.of major run-ins with people who are really saying to me, look darling,

:48:23. > :48:27.you're grey-haired, why don't you die it? Do something about your

:48:28. > :48:33.teeth. Please make yourself look prettier for us if you are going to

:48:34. > :48:36.invade our living rooms. I don't know that world. I don't know the

:48:37. > :48:41.world of people who would say that to you. I don't know those kind of

:48:42. > :48:46.people. Don't you think you underpin it? It is very different for a man

:48:47. > :48:51.with grey hair than for a woman with grey hair. You look kind of

:48:52. > :49:01.gloriously distinguished. Slightly hunky. I'm good-looking, Dante?! If

:49:02. > :49:07.you are a woman with grey hair, you are constantly told that you should

:49:08. > :49:12.do something about yourself. Now you might say that has nothing to do

:49:13. > :49:17.with your business. But I would say that you have to look to what

:49:18. > :49:22.underpins and justifies that particular way of judging women. And

:49:23. > :49:29.one of the things that underpins it is your... The girls in your clubs.

:49:30. > :49:30.Mary Beard and Peter Stringfellow. And tomorrow, Labour's Jess Phillips

:49:31. > :49:32.and Conservative John Whittingdale go on an Election Blind Date

:49:33. > :49:36.and talk ambition, heavy metal and - The world of work is changing

:49:37. > :49:45.rapidly - and more of us than ever are shunning the traditional 9-5 day

:49:46. > :49:48.job, looking for more flexibility Over the last ten years, there's

:49:49. > :49:53.been a 50% increase in the numbers of women who've turned

:49:54. > :49:57.to self-employment - many choosing to set up their own

:49:58. > :50:09.small creative businesses. As part of a series of features on

:50:10. > :50:11.the BBC looking at the bigger picture on the election, we're going

:50:12. > :50:13.to speak to to women. We can talk now to some women

:50:14. > :50:16.who turned their careers around, Lets talk to Sue Buckland

:50:17. > :50:19.and Pippa Currey, who founded a jewellery company together

:50:20. > :50:21.when their children started school. And Saundra O'Shea

:50:22. > :50:23.started her own business after she was bankrupted

:50:24. > :50:27.by illness. Welcome all of you. And here are

:50:28. > :50:30.some of your amazing products. You started this together a decade ago.

:50:31. > :50:37.Your children have gone to school. Tell me about the kind of

:50:38. > :50:42.conversations you had? I previously worked in retail. I really wanted to

:50:43. > :50:47.make the opportunity of when my youngest started school, of doing

:50:48. > :50:52.something creative. I signed up for a silversmithing course, loved it.

:50:53. > :50:56.Called people in the playground and said, you have to have a go. It was

:50:57. > :51:03.a hobby. It was only when people started looking at things and said,

:51:04. > :51:09.can you make me one of those? What we making? Personalised stuff? No.

:51:10. > :51:13.That came later. In those days it was more about nice jewellery.

:51:14. > :51:18.Personalising it came much later. There was a time when really

:51:19. > :51:22.personalisation was something that took ages and wasn't really

:51:23. > :51:29.mainstream. We developed that later on. Described the scene. Are you

:51:30. > :51:35.literally in your kitchen, on your kitchen table, doing stuff? Yes,

:51:36. > :51:38.that is how it started. Until your husband came home and decided enough

:51:39. > :51:46.was enough and he wanted his kitchen table back. What a strange husband,

:51:47. > :51:50.wanting the kitchen table! He built us a shed in the back garden. We

:51:51. > :51:58.moved into that. And we worked from their four about three years. We

:51:59. > :52:02.have our first member of staff join us in there. It did get quite small.

:52:03. > :52:09.That is how it started. It went from there. That is when we joined the

:52:10. > :52:16.online selling platform which turned our business around. Sandra, 2009

:52:17. > :52:21.you had breast cancer. 2010 you were declared bankrupt. 2011 began a

:52:22. > :52:27.series of operations. Now, tell us about your life now? Now my life is

:52:28. > :52:30.a million times better than it was, and probably than it ever has been.

:52:31. > :52:36.I'm enjoying life so much more than I ever did before, really. Even

:52:37. > :52:40.though I had some quite difficult times, I look at those times now and

:52:41. > :52:44.I see them as being responsible for where I am now. And for me being

:52:45. > :52:49.able to make and produce what I am doing now. Which are these glorious

:52:50. > :52:54.glitter bikes. This business has been going for how long? Just over a

:52:55. > :53:04.year. It is a very new business. I'm learning every day. I'm here because

:53:05. > :53:07.I went to an event which was an opportunity provided for makers and

:53:08. > :53:12.Artisans, to take their products along and get feedback. Almost like

:53:13. > :53:18.a Dragon 's Den and the thing. You must have had some skills? Do you

:53:19. > :53:21.sell this, stick the glitter on yourself? My background is graphic

:53:22. > :53:28.design. I was a graphic designer for many years. You can possibly see

:53:29. > :53:32.that in the designs of the bags now. At school I hated sewing. I thought

:53:33. > :53:37.it was antifeminist. I hated the fact we had to do it. I could barely

:53:38. > :53:44.sew a button on till about two years ago. I started with a cushion cover.

:53:45. > :53:50.I told myself through lots of mistakes. I'm quite good at it now.

:53:51. > :53:57.Whether the barriers, do you think, for women, mums, women without kids,

:53:58. > :54:01.setting up their own businesses? There isn't enough flexibility in

:54:02. > :54:06.normal workplaces. That is a primary reason we set our business up.

:54:07. > :54:10.Between us we have five children. We wanted to be able to work and still

:54:11. > :54:17.be able to be mums who were there for our children. We wanted to go to

:54:18. > :54:23.the school concert. And to get a seat in the front row. Exactly. We

:54:24. > :54:29.wanted to be there early. Do you know about filing VAT returns? Doing

:54:30. > :54:32.accounting? Those would be the things that would put someone like

:54:33. > :54:36.me off. I don't want to get into trouble with the taxman. I can't

:54:37. > :54:43.afford to pay someone to do that. How'd you get around that? We found

:54:44. > :54:46.another mum in a similar position. Our business has been about, as we

:54:47. > :54:52.have grown, we have brought on-board lots of mums with expertise. I'm in

:54:53. > :54:59.a completely different position. There is online software you can

:55:00. > :55:04.use. You can hook up to your bank account, go through it so easily and

:55:05. > :55:09.point out what is a business expense, you don't even need a

:55:10. > :55:12.business account to do that. I found using that software, for me where I

:55:13. > :55:16.am at the moment, it's perfect. It is relatively cheap. It has been

:55:17. > :55:21.brilliant. What is your advice to anybody watching male or female who

:55:22. > :55:26.has got a little seed in their head saying, I'd love to work for myself,

:55:27. > :55:32.I'd love to create, make whatever it is in my spare time, I'd love to

:55:33. > :55:36.make a living? I'd say do it. Get on social media. For me, social media

:55:37. > :55:40.has been pivotal in promoting the brand. I do lots of collaborations.

:55:41. > :55:44.I am very determined. It is hard work. It has been hard work. But

:55:45. > :55:49.where we all know with social media with platforms such as not on the

:55:50. > :55:54.high street, if you have the talent, you have the idea, we all have that

:55:55. > :56:00.opportunity. That wasn't there years ago. What about you? Not on the high

:56:01. > :56:05.street give you a lot of support but you have to believe in yourself and

:56:06. > :56:09.now you can do it. Be patient. It is hard. It is very hard. We have had

:56:10. > :56:16.some hard days of the last ten years. What has the hardest day

:56:17. > :56:20.being? Peak selling periods such as Christmas when you don't have many

:56:21. > :56:24.staff and you are doing it all yourself, trying to get orders out

:56:25. > :56:27.to your customers. But that is a good problem because you have got

:56:28. > :56:36.lots of orders. Colour aid is but it is tough. When you haven't bought

:56:37. > :56:40.any Christmas presents for your children. But it is so rewarding and

:56:41. > :56:46.we get so much good feedback from our customers. When you are having a

:56:47. > :56:51.dark day, you think, it is worth it. Sorry to rant or -- to interrupt.

:56:52. > :56:57.Have you noticed most chatter about help for small businesses in this

:56:58. > :57:03.election campaign? I haven't. Not at all. Small businesses are the

:57:04. > :57:08.growing workforce. We are the growth area in industry. I would really

:57:09. > :57:12.like to see more help come forward for small businesses, particularly

:57:13. > :57:15.things like business rates, which make a massive difference. Think

:57:16. > :57:23.you. Congratulations. Continued success. Really nice to meet you. We

:57:24. > :57:25.have got a statement from Ticketmaster behind the ticket

:57:26. > :57:30.available for the Manchester concert on Sunday. Ticketmaster was

:57:31. > :57:37.unsurprisingly met with remarkable demand for tickets. 140,000 fans

:57:38. > :57:43.were on the website. The call centre was buzzing with over 450,000

:57:44. > :57:47.searches on our site for the concert in the last 24-hour is. Demand was

:57:48. > :57:50.always going to be extremely high. We understand there are a number of

:57:51. > :57:56.fans who didn't receive any mail this morning with regard to free

:57:57. > :58:02.tickets. We worked through the night -- night to verify some original

:58:03. > :58:06.bookings. Registration opened until 2pm to deal with it. I want to read

:58:07. > :58:13.this from Hannah. It is about Ryan and Luke. The interview meant so

:58:14. > :58:17.much to me. I had a similar experience. Thank you so very much

:58:18. > :58:20.for the interview. Thanks for your company today. We're back tomorrow

:58:21. > :58:23.at nine. BBC newsroom live is next.