15/06/2017

:00:10. > :00:11.Hello, it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock.

:00:12. > :00:14.I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

:00:15. > :00:16.The blackened shell that is Grenfell Tower

:00:17. > :00:24.is all that remains of yesterday's horror.

:00:25. > :00:31.The death toll at the moment stands at 12,

:00:32. > :00:35.though it's expected to rise significantly.

:00:36. > :00:37.My mum, my sister, her daughters and her husband.

:00:38. > :00:39.Yeah, they're all still in the building.

:00:40. > :00:50.I don't know if they're out because we don't have any information.

:00:51. > :00:56.So many questions continue to be asked about what caused the blaze,

:00:57. > :01:01.how this could happen, what can be done to ensure it never happens

:01:02. > :01:06.again. It will allow fire to spread up, and what will happen is it will

:01:07. > :01:08.create a path for the fire to spread and encourage the fire to spread

:01:09. > :01:11.faster and more intensely. The original architect

:01:12. > :01:14.of the building tells this programme he has serious concerns

:01:15. > :01:28.about the recent refurbishment. That raises real questions about the

:01:29. > :01:33.fire safety checks that were in place to stop families getting hurt.

:01:34. > :01:37.Also, firefighters have worked through the night to dampen ablaze,

:01:38. > :01:42.although some parts of the building on the upper floors remain alight.

:01:43. > :01:47.The fire Brigade say the tower block is not structurally safe for them to

:01:48. > :01:51.enter in some places. Meanwhile, local people continue to offer help

:01:52. > :01:55.to those left destitute and homeless, this is where the relief

:01:56. > :02:01.effort is being co-ordinated, and as you can see, there are piles of

:02:02. > :02:07.clothes and toys that people have donated. We have also donated some

:02:08. > :02:11.money, given money to families, Darren withdrew ?1000 from his

:02:12. > :02:12.account, and we have been giving families ?100 just to see them over

:02:13. > :02:32.the next couple of days. Good morning from North Kensington.

:02:33. > :02:36.This morning we are at the Westway sports centre on one of their

:02:37. > :02:40.basketball courts. You might be able to hear the traffic, we are just

:02:41. > :02:45.under the Westway, the A40, one of the main arterial routes into the

:02:46. > :02:50.capital, and here on this basketball court, people have donated so much

:02:51. > :02:53.for those who lost everything in the fire at Grenfell Tower. Let me show

:02:54. > :03:00.you some of the things that have been donated, look at those hundreds

:03:01. > :03:05.and hundreds of pairs of shoes for teenagers, for young adults. Over

:03:06. > :03:09.here, you can see the toys that have been donated for children, for

:03:10. > :03:16.toddlers in particular down here, and the young girls, and then over

:03:17. > :03:24.here the cuddly toys, and also bags and bags of books. Now, volunteers

:03:25. > :03:28.spent much of yesterday, and most of the evening actually last night,

:03:29. > :03:31.working through the night, to get these donations into some kind of

:03:32. > :03:37.order, and you can see they have managed to do that. Here, piles of

:03:38. > :03:46.Gilles' vests, dozens of them. Next to that, girls the' shirts, boys be'

:03:47. > :03:55.jackets, underwear, socks, and so it goes on. If we can just show you a

:03:56. > :04:00.360 degrees... Look at this, clothing donations for fire victims.

:04:01. > :04:04.360 degrees around this basketball court, you can see how much stuff,

:04:05. > :04:09.and this is just one area where people have donated, just one area.

:04:10. > :04:13.Right next to me is the actual sports centre which is a relief

:04:14. > :04:17.centre at effectively for people evacuated not from the tower itself,

:04:18. > :04:26.but from surrounding homes and lives. And they provided beds for

:04:27. > :04:29.300 last night. 40-50 people stayed in the end, many of them still

:04:30. > :04:33.inside, many of them completely traumatised by what they witnessed.

:04:34. > :04:37.There are mental health workers inside, I am told, social workers

:04:38. > :04:42.inside, trying to help people come to terms with the fact that they may

:04:43. > :04:45.have lost loved ones in the tower. Everybody says they have been

:04:46. > :04:52.overwhelmed by support from the people who live in North Kensington.

:04:53. > :04:55.The volunteers at these relief centres are saying, thank you for

:04:56. > :05:00.everything you have donated, but we do not need any more for the moment.

:05:01. > :05:04.What they need of volunteers during the day, because so many people are

:05:05. > :05:12.having to go to work today, having stayed off yesterday. So they are

:05:13. > :05:15.asking for volunteers from 9-5. I mean, the big question, when you

:05:16. > :05:19.talk to people, it is much quieter this morning, it really is, you

:05:20. > :05:27.know, the people I have spoken to, they just want to know why - they

:05:28. > :05:32.just want to know why, how it is that something can happen like this

:05:33. > :05:37.in a tower block in 2017. I am really keen to hear from you today -

:05:38. > :05:44.if you live in a high-rise block of flats, I want to know if you are

:05:45. > :05:46.confident today that your agency, your association, your management

:05:47. > :05:50.organisation, whoever looks after you, whether it is the council,

:05:51. > :05:56.whoever, are you confident they have done all that they can to keep you

:05:57. > :05:57.safe? I really want to hear from you this morning, do get in touch in the

:05:58. > :06:04.usual ways, Twitter, e-mail. They include Jessica Urbano Ramirez,

:06:05. > :06:12.a 12-year-old who's believed to have become separated from her family

:06:13. > :06:16.when the blaze broke out. Husna Begum, who lived

:06:17. > :06:18.on the 17th floor and is missing with four other

:06:19. > :06:22.members of her family. 27-year-old Mariem Elgwahry,

:06:23. > :06:31.a marketing manager, who is believed to have last spoken

:06:32. > :06:33.to someone 66-year-old retired lorry driver

:06:34. > :06:38.Tony Disson, who lived Mo Tuccu, a British national

:06:39. > :06:42.from Eritrea, who was visiting friends or

:06:43. > :06:45.family at the Grenfell Tower with his wife Amalahmedin

:06:46. > :06:47.and three-year-old daughter Amayah. They had gone to break

:06:48. > :06:49.their Ramadan fast. 24-year-old artist Khadija Saye,

:06:50. > :06:53.who lived on the 20th floor. Labour MP David Lammy's wife

:06:54. > :06:57.was her employer and mentor. He tweeted, "If you have any

:06:58. > :06:59.information about Khadija Saye, "She is our dear friend, a beautiful

:07:00. > :07:08.soul and emerging artist." Khadija's mother, Mary Mendy,

:07:09. > :07:10.is also missing. The official number of

:07:11. > :07:16.dead stands at 12, although the police say

:07:17. > :07:18.they expect that to rise significantly during a long

:07:19. > :07:20.and complex recovery operation. Firefighters are continuing to

:07:21. > :07:32.tackle pockets of fire in the block. I mean, that is astonishing, over 24

:07:33. > :07:40.hours since the fire broke out, and there are still claims in that

:07:41. > :07:45.building. Let me introduce you to Harris Iqbal, who is here, good

:07:46. > :07:52.morning. I'm Victoria, nice to meet you. Tell our audience how you have

:07:53. > :07:55.been helping. We are an international humanitarian

:07:56. > :08:02.organisation that works in crisis hit countries around the world, and

:08:03. > :08:07.we have been here since the onset of this emergency providing hot food,

:08:08. > :08:10.hot food provisions, blankets, pillows, necessary essentials for

:08:11. > :08:15.families to keep going in a very difficult time. I wonder, if you

:08:16. > :08:18.would be so kind as to show some of the... I have mentioned to the

:08:19. > :08:23.audience some of the things that have been donated, but if we can

:08:24. > :08:29.walk down here, you can talk through. What are people saying to

:08:30. > :08:32.you? The community response has been overwhelming, you can see the very

:08:33. > :08:42.generous donations that have come in all sorts of forms, from clothing to

:08:43. > :08:46.baby kit, nappies. You can see around you, also saw things that

:08:47. > :08:49.have been distributed and provided for the families that have been

:08:50. > :08:54.affected. We are currently at a stage where we are at capacity and

:08:55. > :09:01.unable to accept anymore, but the response has been. Right. Why do you

:09:02. > :09:04.think that is? I think the British community, that is something we are

:09:05. > :09:09.exceptionally good at, at times of difficulty, times of catastrophe,

:09:10. > :09:13.and this is very much a humanitarian crisis, you know, the way

:09:14. > :09:19.communities pulled together is amazing, and over the last couple of

:09:20. > :09:23.hours and days it has been a fine example of communities coming

:09:24. > :09:29.together. There are some very traumatised people who are perhaps

:09:30. > :09:34.only now absorbing the fact that they have lost a loved one in that

:09:35. > :09:37.hour. Absolutely. There are a number of families who are grieving at the

:09:38. > :09:41.moment, there are those who still have loved ones that are missing,

:09:42. > :09:46.and others who have lost their homes, livelihoods and belongings.

:09:47. > :09:51.And so it is a very distressing and upsetting time. We are providing

:09:52. > :10:01.emotional support, and we will continue to do so over the next

:10:02. > :10:06.couple of days. I am going to introduce Anne Johnson, good

:10:07. > :10:10.morning, nice to see you. Nice to meet you too. You live around here?

:10:11. > :10:20.What are you thinking about what has happened? I don't think anything for

:10:21. > :10:25.what has happened, it is what I saw. It was around... Yeah, it must have

:10:26. > :10:31.been around 12:45 in the morning, I heard a lot of commotion, obviously

:10:32. > :10:35.it work me up, so I got up to see what was going on. And from my front

:10:36. > :10:42.door, I could see the building on the top was on fire. And within half

:10:43. > :10:48.an hour, but by from the top down to the bottom, and then from the top of

:10:49. > :10:57.the building, it started spreading, like from the top to the end. At the

:10:58. > :11:06.very top of the building, I saw around about six children all crying

:11:07. > :11:12.for help. Within I would say by 1:30, from the top of the building

:11:13. > :11:18.halfway down, smoke just got into the flats, everything went black,

:11:19. > :11:25.and you never saw anybody again. Many people were hanging out their

:11:26. > :11:28.verandas, screaming for help, waving their telephones, T-shirts,

:11:29. > :11:34.anything, just to say, we are here, we need help, we need attention. By

:11:35. > :11:41.around three o'clock, that whole building from the top nearly to the

:11:42. > :11:45.bottom was gone and on fire. I don't know how many survivors made it, but

:11:46. > :11:52.from what I saw there was not a lot that made it out. How does that

:11:53. > :12:00.happen in this country, in this year? I mean, in 2017, in a modern

:12:01. > :12:04.economy, the capital city? To be honest with you, I don't have an

:12:05. > :12:09.answer for that, to completely honest with you. I have heard a lot

:12:10. > :12:13.of stories, a fridge freezer or... I am sorry, a fridge freezer cannot

:12:14. > :12:22.take a whole building down. It is no normal. Something is wrong

:12:23. > :12:29.somewhere, but I cannot tell you what... No, I am just... Do you feel

:12:30. > :12:34.angry? I feel angry that I saw people dying in front of my eyes, I

:12:35. > :12:40.saw kids and a woman, and kids this age hanging from windows with

:12:41. > :12:46.teddies. And that angered me, and nobody could help them. That really

:12:47. > :12:54.angered me. Cos as a mother myself, I mean, the tears in my eyes were

:12:55. > :12:58.unbelievable. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, women, children,

:12:59. > :13:04.grown men, didn't even know what to do apart from hang out the windows

:13:05. > :13:09.and scream and shout. And there was no help. I think there was help

:13:10. > :13:15.there, but nobody could get to them, that fire was so severe, it was

:13:16. > :13:18.unbelievable. We are hearing, my colleagues at the BBC are hearing

:13:19. > :13:23.that the Prime Minister, Theresa May, is going to visit the area

:13:24. > :13:26.today. What is your reaction to that? What is she going to do? She

:13:27. > :13:30.should have done their job right in the first place and this wouldn't

:13:31. > :13:34.have happened. I mean, a lot of people are saying it is from the

:13:35. > :13:38.buildings, you know? But at the end of the day, the way I see it,

:13:39. > :13:47.Theresa May is nothing to do with the building, but the politics never

:13:48. > :13:51.gives a damn about Ladbroke growth area, do they? Wide you say that?

:13:52. > :13:55.Well, if you look at what Chelsea has to offer, it has everything to

:13:56. > :14:02.other, they have more in Chelsea than what we do here. Which comes

:14:03. > :14:09.under the Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council. But there is a lot

:14:10. > :14:14.more down in Chelsea. Why do you think that is, Anne? I don't know!

:14:15. > :14:27.Maybe because it is the layers of the rich people. And here? Yes, EU

:14:28. > :14:32.is -- here is is middle-class, my God, why are we getting into

:14:33. > :14:38.politics? I am interested, you have lived here for a long time, you saw

:14:39. > :14:44.what happened. It was very sad. Very, very sad. I don't know what

:14:45. > :14:51.Theresa May is going to do, unless she has got another block of flats

:14:52. > :14:57.to no make these people homeless, because we have enough in United

:14:58. > :15:04.Kingdom. Thank you very much, Anne. Anne, a local resident. Paris, how

:15:05. > :15:09.do you react back at the Prime Minister will be visiting today?

:15:10. > :15:14.It is a distressing time for all of us, at times like this we need to

:15:15. > :15:19.unite and let those affected know that we stand together and they have

:15:20. > :15:23.our support. For the Prime Minister is sitting, I'm sure that will be of

:15:24. > :15:33.some solace to those communities affected. It is a difficult time and

:15:34. > :15:39.a very distressing time. Harrowing stories, accounts that I have heard,

:15:40. > :15:41.first town. Coming together now as a British community, and provide the

:15:42. > :15:49.essential aid and support that we need and befriending is absolutely

:15:50. > :16:04.priceless. Thank you very much for speaking with us.

:16:05. > :16:10.Dominating the skyline, this community, the black skeleton of

:16:11. > :16:14.Grenfell Tower, dark, empty, firefighters have been there through

:16:15. > :16:19.the night, there are still flames, we are told, on the upper stories,

:16:20. > :16:22.and structurally there are parts which are unsafe for firefighters to

:16:23. > :16:27.enter into, and so many questions, as you would expect, about what

:16:28. > :16:29.caused the fire and why it took also quickly. Still burning over 24 hours

:16:30. > :16:52.on. That building went up so fast. How?

:16:53. > :16:54.Why? A lot of questions to be asked. The first of which, were there even

:16:55. > :16:59.the most basic fire safety precautions.

:17:00. > :17:02.All of a sudden, I heard my door, bang, bang, bang.

:17:03. > :17:04.Evacuate? Evacuate.

:17:05. > :17:12.Residents who survived were woken up by each other, not fire alarms.

:17:13. > :17:15.Ran down the stairs, we were on the seventh,

:17:16. > :17:17.as we were running down, we've gone to the fourth floor

:17:18. > :17:24.But the fire alarm that was going off wouldn't

:17:25. > :17:28.It weren't loud, it weren't, you know, it weren't

:17:29. > :17:32.There was no fire alarm at all. No fire alarm that you could hear?

:17:33. > :17:35.Another question mark hangs over evacuation procedures.

:17:36. > :17:39.If I listened to the advice given to me by the fire brigade and also

:17:40. > :17:41.by the TMO management team we could be dead.

:17:42. > :17:44.They'd been told, in the event of a fire, to stay put.

:17:45. > :17:47.This was one of my main concerns about living in a tower block.

:17:48. > :17:50.On Saturday we did have the fire brigade team come around and speak

:17:51. > :18:01.Check alarms to make sure they are working.

:18:02. > :18:02.Just this Saturday? Just this Saturday.

:18:03. > :18:03.Seriously? Yeah.

:18:04. > :18:05.Yeah. And they told us the protocol

:18:06. > :18:07.was to close your door because the fire door will withstand

:18:08. > :18:10.the heat for a duration of time. We know that for Grenfell Tower,

:18:11. > :18:13.that period of time is 30 minutes. Yet people were waiting

:18:14. > :18:15.far, far longer. They were saying what?

:18:16. > :18:19.Smoke. Hoping that the fire

:18:20. > :18:27.brigade would get up there. Because that is what

:18:28. > :18:29.they're told to isn't it? So they would have stayed in there,

:18:30. > :18:35.waiting and following instructions. Nothing else you can do

:18:36. > :18:37.from the 18th floor. My mum and my infant sister was,

:18:38. > :18:41.they were there for five hours. Because the fire brigade

:18:42. > :18:43.told them just to wait My mum was panicking,

:18:44. > :18:46.I was panicking. Flats should be fire

:18:47. > :18:47.resistant cells. So a fire should burn itself

:18:48. > :18:50.out without spreading. Tower blocks aren't designed

:18:51. > :18:52.for everyone to evacuate in one go. Which is why it's considered safer

:18:53. > :18:55.to stay in your flat. The fact that on this occasion it

:18:56. > :18:58.wasn't raises another big question. Why did the outside of the tower

:18:59. > :19:01.block catch fire so easily? Grenfell Tower was

:19:02. > :19:02.refurbished in 2016. The cladding was supplied by this

:19:03. > :19:10.company, Harley Facades. You'd expect a cladding system

:19:11. > :19:12.to prevent the fire spreading up You expect the cladding itself to be

:19:13. > :19:24.noncombustible and you'd expect there to be fire stops,

:19:25. > :19:26.fire breaks at each floor level to prevent it acting effectively

:19:27. > :19:29.like a chimney and allowing the fire to spread all the way up

:19:30. > :19:35.the outside of the building. One theory is the fire could have

:19:36. > :19:43.spread through the cladding. over Kensington and Chelsea Tenant

:19:44. > :19:52.Management Organisation Last year KCTMO put its fire safety

:19:53. > :19:57.policy under review. Meanwhile residents

:19:58. > :19:59.in the Grenfell Action Group warned They said a catastrophic event

:20:00. > :20:24.will expose the ineptitude We can speak with our reporter, Jim

:20:25. > :20:30.Reed, looking into some of the questions that need answering. Of

:20:31. > :20:35.course, the first, how could this happen? Exactly, investigators are

:20:36. > :20:39.going to spend months, if not longer, looking into the causes of

:20:40. > :20:43.the fire. At this early stage, people are looking at the speed at

:20:44. > :20:48.which the fire spread, simply should not happen in a modern tower block,

:20:49. > :20:51.even one which has been refurbished, should not catch fire and should not

:20:52. > :20:55.spread that quickly, that is what experts tell us. Yesterday one of

:20:56. > :21:02.the original architect spoke with us. In 1974, he worked on it in the

:21:03. > :21:06.late 1960s, even he described it as incomprehensible that it burned so

:21:07. > :21:09.quickly, we built a concrete building and concrete simply does

:21:10. > :21:14.not burn like that. What went wrong? It is not yet confirmed, a lot of

:21:15. > :21:19.talk about the cladding that went on the outside of the building. Fixed

:21:20. > :21:24.on about one year ago. You and the viewers at home will have seen this,

:21:25. > :21:29.plastic looking substance, goes on the outside of older style blocks to

:21:30. > :21:34.make it look pretty, and also for energy reasons, to make it more

:21:35. > :21:37.efficient. So, potentially, that could have been partially

:21:38. > :21:41.responsible. That is what some people say, the residents we were

:21:42. > :21:45.speaking with, on this programme, brought it up again and again. We

:21:46. > :21:51.have learned the panels fixed onto the outside were made of something

:21:52. > :21:53.called ACM, that is aluminium composite material, that material

:21:54. > :22:02.has been blamed for nearly a dozen high-rise flyers globally over the

:22:03. > :22:06.last decade. France, Dubai, a couple of fires famously there. -- a dozen

:22:07. > :22:10.high-rise fires. Regulations around those panels are quite sketchy, you

:22:11. > :22:14.can have a situation where there is fire retardant material on the

:22:15. > :22:25.outside that protects from firebug on the inside, the bag, it is not

:22:26. > :22:29.fire leading to a situation where the inside burns through but the

:22:30. > :22:33.outside is not, that creates a chimney effect, that is what it

:22:34. > :22:38.looked like yesterday on television and social media. That is just a

:22:39. > :22:42.theory. Needs a full investigation. The worst tower block fire like this

:22:43. > :22:49.was in a place called lacquer Mulhouse, south London, 2009, last

:22:50. > :22:53.night we spoke with Sam Webb, the expert in the inquest into those six

:22:54. > :22:58.deaths, and again, he said, this is horribly familiar, pointed to the

:22:59. > :23:03.cladding, looking at the television footage and said, the could this be

:23:04. > :23:11.to blame, he said this was entirely preventable. -- Lakanal House. The

:23:12. > :23:16.main contract to install this was Rydon and they say they have met the

:23:17. > :23:20.regulations, the subcontractor, Harley Facades, not aware of any

:23:21. > :23:25.link between the cladding and the fire at this time. What about safety

:23:26. > :23:29.procedures? Brought up yesterday, a couple of real concerns about the

:23:30. > :23:35.alarm system fitted. A new alarm system was fitted last year under

:23:36. > :23:39.the refit, but people we have spoken with say they did not hear an alarm,

:23:40. > :23:44.it did not get them out of bed, they were woken up by smoke alarms in

:23:45. > :23:47.neighbouring flats. The evacuation procedure, people being told through

:23:48. > :23:53.notices in the building that if the fire is not directly inside your

:23:54. > :23:56.flat, stay inside. That is common advice for high-rise blocks across

:23:57. > :24:02.the UK at the moment. That may be looked into. A sprinkler system as

:24:03. > :24:06.well, after the earlier fire in lacquer Mulhouse, it was said that

:24:07. > :24:15.perhaps that should be considered to install them in new house -- old

:24:16. > :24:21.houses. If it had been newer, it would have a sprinkler system. --

:24:22. > :24:26.lacquer null house. -- Lakanal House.

:24:27. > :24:33.Wojciech should have been in place to make sure that a fire like this

:24:34. > :24:40.did not happen? One of the things are and I certainly concur with

:24:41. > :24:48.this, once they had done the major checks, they should carried out fire

:24:49. > :24:52.risk assessment review. -- once they had done the major works. -- what

:24:53. > :24:59.checks. Under approved document be,

:25:00. > :25:05.regulation 38, all of the necessary information about what had been used

:25:06. > :25:08.on the building should have been carried out, test report, whether

:25:09. > :25:14.that was the correct application for the building, those questions need

:25:15. > :25:18.to be answered. For a moment, assume all of that happened as it should,

:25:19. > :25:24.are you then saying that the fire would not have happened or not? If

:25:25. > :25:29.the cladding and what was behind the cladding had been properly fire

:25:30. > :25:37.tested, and the surface spread of flames was appropriate, the fire

:25:38. > :25:42.would not have spread up there. But Niall is more of an expert. The

:25:43. > :25:46.exterior of the cladding has to be noncombustible, not what is behind

:25:47. > :25:51.it. Under a note, and approved document, approved document be, a

:25:52. > :25:55.statutory guidance to the building regulation, there is a requirement

:25:56. > :26:04.for non-combustible cladding for buildings above 18 metres. --

:26:05. > :26:08.approved document B. Or, 8414... Sorry, stop doing these numbers at

:26:09. > :26:13.me... I'm going down on the hierarchy, the default condition is

:26:14. > :26:19.noncombustible, the next is a very strong and worthy fire, the next is

:26:20. > :26:25.and assessment by a test laboratory, and the next... We do not know which

:26:26. > :26:32.of these procedures was used on this blog. It may have been fully fire

:26:33. > :26:36.tested. I have my doubts. -- block. We have no idea. It is difficult to

:26:37. > :26:42.say. Sorry to give you all of those numbers. No, that is fine. There are

:26:43. > :26:46.questions to be asked on this cladding, I saw video from a

:26:47. > :26:50.passer-by which showed very rapid narrow initial fire spread, 30

:26:51. > :26:55.seconds or so to get to the top of the building, unbelievable, I have

:26:56. > :26:58.never seen anything like it. What we have to remember is that each of the

:26:59. > :27:02.flats is a bit like a shoe box, think about a shoe box, it should

:27:03. > :27:08.have a half-hour protection around it at every angle, although shoe

:27:09. > :27:11.boxes stacked on each other, if the fire is retained within that shoe

:27:12. > :27:14.box for half an hour, that is more than enough time for fire brigade to

:27:15. > :27:18.come to deal with the fire in the individual flat, which is where that

:27:19. > :27:26.stayed put policy comes from. But it needs to be quantified, the state

:27:27. > :27:29.put -- clearly everybody in this lot was affected by fire or smoke and so

:27:30. > :27:38.they should have been evacuated the the stay put is clear about that.

:27:39. > :27:42.Why was there that policy, that stay put policy, it is so that

:27:43. > :27:46.firefighters can get up the stairs and not be impeded by people coming

:27:47. > :27:49.down the stairs, is that correct? Would you want to live in a

:27:50. > :27:54.high-rise block of flats where every time somebody burned their toes,

:27:55. > :27:58.everybody has to evacuate, how many times a day would you be evacuating.

:27:59. > :28:03.Where you have a property with a single step place -- single

:28:04. > :28:07.staircase, they would be running up with all their equipment, a dry

:28:08. > :28:14.riser in a high-rise block, they would set up the fire cordon one

:28:15. > :28:18.level the fire, connected to the dry riser and run up. Once they run a

:28:19. > :28:22.hose people coming down, once they put water in the hose, the hose will

:28:23. > :28:28.go talk, any be on the stairs will be taken out. Do not want loads of

:28:29. > :28:31.people coming out of the building in such a circumstance because people

:28:32. > :28:34.will get injured. Thank you very much for coming down.

:28:35. > :28:40.We are at the Westway sports Centre this Thursday morning, more than 24

:28:41. > :28:46.hours after the fire broke out at Grenfell Tower. It is the structure

:28:47. > :28:52.that looms over this community, it dominates everything. This is the

:28:53. > :28:59.day when people are perhaps absorbing properly the fact they may

:29:00. > :29:04.have lost loved ones. There are desperate people still searching for

:29:05. > :29:08.missing relatives. There is a condolence wall, if I can put it

:29:09. > :29:12.like that, I have tweeted a photograph of that, evil writing

:29:13. > :29:19.messages to those who have lost lives. The messages include love and

:29:20. > :29:27.prayers. There is also some anger on that wall. Justice for ground fell

:29:28. > :29:32.-- justice for Grenfell, why did this happen to happen, whoever is

:29:33. > :29:36.responsible, those selfish people will pay. Those are some of the

:29:37. > :29:43.sentiments. Underneath, people laying flowers as a mark of respect.

:29:44. > :29:49.We are going to walk across this basketball pitch past all these

:29:50. > :29:54.donations, the volunteers have said they have enough now. They perhaps

:29:55. > :29:59.do not have enough volunteers to sort through all the many hundreds

:30:00. > :30:04.of bags, I mean, this is stuff that has not been sorted through yet,

:30:05. > :30:07.look at these bin bags full of donations - clothes, jumpers,

:30:08. > :30:17.sportswear, socks, underwear, toys. Over here, thank you, Mo, bedding,

:30:18. > :30:22.duvets, mattresses, and so it goes on. Now, we are going to walk

:30:23. > :30:27.through and out, because outside here, this is a queue of people who

:30:28. > :30:38.are signing into volunteer. There with me as we walk through.

:30:39. > :30:46.Hopefully, I will be able to introduce you to some of the

:30:47. > :30:53.volunteers. Bear with me, excuse me, hello. Good morning. Hello, what is

:30:54. > :31:01.your name? Abraham, how are you? Nice to see you, who is this? Hi,

:31:02. > :31:04.Lucy, what is your role? I came down yesterday morning, and I was based

:31:05. > :31:08.here until midnight last night, and I got up this morning and wanted to

:31:09. > :31:14.get involved and do whatever I could to help. So you are a volunteer, do

:31:15. > :31:21.you live locally? My house is just there, so sitting at home and

:31:22. > :31:25.watching the news, just felt completely wrong, it down, do

:31:26. > :31:31.whatever I could, seems the right thing. Abraham, tell cum about how

:31:32. > :31:38.you have been helping. I started at six o'clock yesterday morning, just

:31:39. > :31:42.to volunteer, the sports centre opened their doors for us, amazing.

:31:43. > :31:49.Basically, people coming out of their houses with big bags, not

:31:50. > :31:54.knowing what to do. It is lovely they opened their doors, and I took

:31:55. > :31:58.control, and I said, I am the co-ordinated here, hundreds of

:31:59. > :32:05.lovely volunteers spend hours, hours, more than 15 hours, sorting

:32:06. > :32:12.this all out. What really struck me, if you walk past all the open spaces

:32:13. > :32:16.here, full of people bringing stuff. And this is being coordinated, as

:32:17. > :32:21.far as I can see, not by anybody in authority, not by the council - it

:32:22. > :32:25.is people like yourselves. Absolutely, hands up to the

:32:26. > :32:32.community, dedicated so much of their time, donations from different

:32:33. > :32:35.charities, 100% effort. I guess it is confusing for a lot of

:32:36. > :32:41.authorities, because they didn't know where to go, what was the main

:32:42. > :32:46.centre? We have got so many viewers getting in touch, from all over the

:32:47. > :32:53.country, saying, how can we help? What would you suggest? At the

:32:54. > :32:57.moment, we are so full of generous, you know, donations. I think what we

:32:58. > :33:02.need at the moment is if people can find locations and help sort out

:33:03. > :33:08.things, this is one of our biggest collection points, and we need

:33:09. > :33:14.volunteers to help sort it out. Hopefully, the council can arrange.

:33:15. > :33:16.People further afield, they can donate to all sorts of places

:33:17. > :33:21.online, official fundraising campaigns for those have lost

:33:22. > :33:25.everything. There are people who have managed to escape that horror

:33:26. > :33:30.and have everything that they have worked for, gone. I think we don't

:33:31. > :33:36.know, we don't know how much stuff there is, we don't know where it is

:33:37. > :33:41.going to go. The people arriving now, people are texting, there are

:33:42. > :33:47.continually questions, what can we do? I think we are going to find out

:33:48. > :33:51.today, as the days and weeks unfold. It is not just yesterday, not just

:33:52. > :33:55.today, there will be more to do over the coming weeks, continue fighting

:33:56. > :34:02.for this. What to think about what has happened in your community?

:34:03. > :34:08.Long-term or just in the last 24 hours? You tell me. What was

:34:09. > :34:16.amazing, yesterday, the camaraderie and spirit that crossed languages,

:34:17. > :34:24.cultures. People were working from their hearts, it is something that

:34:25. > :34:32.is moving and exhilarating, in the current state of what is going on,

:34:33. > :34:37.it is heart-warming. OK. If I may, Lucy, Abraham, bear with me, I am

:34:38. > :34:40.just getting this statement from the Queen. The Queen has said her

:34:41. > :34:44.thoughts and prayers are with those families who have lost loved ones in

:34:45. > :34:53.the Grenfell Tower fire and the many people who are still critically ill

:34:54. > :34:59.in hospital. Wow. It is lovely. The families that are in here are being

:35:00. > :35:03.taken care of, a full team of supporters, they have everything

:35:04. > :35:10.they need. The best we can do is just do what we are doing. We will

:35:11. > :35:16.also reporting earlier that the Prime Minister, Theresa May, is due

:35:17. > :35:21.here today. We will see what happens. I'm not sure how the public

:35:22. > :35:27.will react, because there is a lot of anger, a lot of the volunteers

:35:28. > :35:35.are local guys. I'm not really sure. What do you mean? It was kind of

:35:36. > :35:39.heated, people were really frustrated with the situation.

:35:40. > :35:48.Because it happened? The reasons why it happened, and children, you know,

:35:49. > :35:52.we had young children wanting to volunteer, jumping up and down,

:35:53. > :35:57.laughing and smiling, but they have friends who they have lost because

:35:58. > :36:04.they went to the school across the road, they have lost friends. So

:36:05. > :36:11.many people have lost friends and family, you know, we will do as much

:36:12. > :36:16.as we can. We are very organised here, great team, great volunteers,

:36:17. > :36:19.loads of volunteers with a structure of what were going to do for the

:36:20. > :36:25.day. But if you want to volunteer, go to different areas, leisure

:36:26. > :36:31.centres et cetera, go and help yourself. Thank you very much,

:36:32. > :36:35.Abraham, Lucy, thank you very much, thank you. This statement from the

:36:36. > :36:40.Queen, a little longer, I will read it to you. My thoughts and prayers

:36:41. > :36:45.are with those families who have lost loved ones in the Grenfell

:36:46. > :36:48.Tower fire, and the many people who are still critically ill in

:36:49. > :36:52.hospital. Prince Philip and I would like to pay tribute to the bravery

:36:53. > :36:57.of firefighters and other emergency service officers who put their lives

:36:58. > :36:59.at risk to save others. It is also heartening to see the incredible

:37:00. > :37:06.generosity of community volunteers rallying to help those affected by

:37:07. > :37:10.this terrible event. We have also got this breaking news to bring you

:37:11. > :37:16.- Labour are calling for an inquiry into fire safety in tower blocks to

:37:17. > :37:21.be completed by the summer. Let's talk to assistant political editor

:37:22. > :37:24.Norman Smith, Phil us in. There is mounting frustration at Westminster

:37:25. > :37:29.that because Parliament is not sitting, there is no opportunity for

:37:30. > :37:33.MPs to quiz ministers about fire safety, so Labour have jumped the

:37:34. > :37:38.gun and said they want an inquiry to be completed by the summer, and in

:37:39. > :37:43.the interim they want the recommendations of a previous

:37:44. > :37:48.report, following the Lakanal House tower block tragedy in south London,

:37:49. > :37:52.to be implemented immediately. Now, that would mean, for example, the

:37:53. > :37:59.installation of sprinklers in at risk tower blocks. It would mean a

:38:00. > :38:03.review of building regulations to include the safety of cladding,

:38:04. > :38:07.which of course is at the centre of much of the concern about what has

:38:08. > :38:12.happened at Grenfell Tower. It would also include updated advice to

:38:13. > :38:16.residents about whether they should stay or whether they should get out

:38:17. > :38:21.- that too has been central to Grenfell Tower. And there would also

:38:22. > :38:27.be an instruction that there had to be a sort of box at the bottom of

:38:28. > :38:32.the tower block which would give firefighters all the information

:38:33. > :38:35.they needed about routes, access, lifts, stairwells and all that sort

:38:36. > :38:40.of thing. So they are in effect saying we cannot afford to hang

:38:41. > :38:44.around, we have to implement the 2013 recommendations which by and

:38:45. > :38:52.large have either been rejected or shelved. OK. And Theresa May and

:38:53. > :38:57.Jeremy Corbyn are going to come here to the scene of the tragedy today,

:38:58. > :39:05.is that correct? That is right, the Prime Minister will be there ahead

:39:06. > :39:07.of Jeremy Corbyn, both obviously want to show their condolences,

:39:08. > :39:13.there is sadness, there horror at what happened. But there is, I have

:39:14. > :39:18.to say, some pressure on the Government now to come forward with

:39:19. > :39:22.more than simply expressions of condolences. There were demands

:39:23. > :39:25.yesterday for a statement in Westminster, not in the Commons

:39:26. > :39:30.because it is not sitting - the statement in one of the committee

:39:31. > :39:34.rooms where a minister, as well as the emergency services, as well as

:39:35. > :39:38.the local council, could be quizzed by MPs. Having spoken to the

:39:39. > :39:43.authorities at Westminster, that does not seem to be about to happen.

:39:44. > :39:47.I think there is a degree of anger that it is just not acceptable,

:39:48. > :39:52.given the scale and nature of this tragedy, that there is no immediate

:39:53. > :39:55.mechanism whereby MPs can, as it were, hold the Government to

:39:56. > :40:00.account. Now, I'm sure ministers will they have set up the civil

:40:01. > :40:03.contingencies Secretariat to pull together the different information,

:40:04. > :40:07.and we had an assurance last night that any lessons to be learned would

:40:08. > :40:11.be, but I have spoken to MPs saying that is not good enough, what is

:40:12. > :40:17.needed is a full-blown public inquiry, not merely to establish

:40:18. > :40:19.what has gone wrong, but to reassure the public and people living in the

:40:20. > :40:27.thousands of tower blocks elsewhere in Britain. Yeah. I am asking people

:40:28. > :40:35.who live in high-rise blocks of flats this morning, if they feel

:40:36. > :40:41.confident that he was -- that whoever is looking after them, do

:40:42. > :40:47.they feel safe? Let me ask you about criticism of Gavin Barwell, a former

:40:48. > :40:50.Conservative MP, he lost his seat in the general election, then he was

:40:51. > :40:56.made Theresa May's chief of staff, why such criticism? Criticism

:40:57. > :41:03.because he was the former housing minister, and back in October last

:41:04. > :41:06.year, he promised to produce a review of the building regulations,

:41:07. > :41:12.and the fact is that just has not emerged, and that, I have to say,

:41:13. > :41:14.follows on from the previous housing minister, Brandon Lewis, who

:41:15. > :41:21.similarly was challenged to implement the lack of -- the Lakmal

:41:22. > :41:25.house recommendations, and that also seems to have disappeared into the

:41:26. > :41:28.long grass. At the moment, politicians are holding back because

:41:29. > :41:34.it is just not appropriate in the aftermath of such a tragedy to be

:41:35. > :41:41.making those very direct political accusations. But there is no doubt

:41:42. > :41:48.that there are a whole load of very difficult questions waiting to be

:41:49. > :41:53.answered by Gavin Barwell once this tragedy is over.

:41:54. > :42:03.Agger very much, Norman Smith, apologies if you frantically called

:42:04. > :42:09.me trying to work out who our next guests would be. I am here as an

:42:10. > :42:18.individual Assembly Member, but that is one of my jobs. You are a local

:42:19. > :42:25.councillor, is that correct? Yes. So today, what questions would you like

:42:26. > :42:28.answered? Well, something the leader of the council said yesterday, the

:42:29. > :42:33.leader of the Council, Kensington and Chelsea, he said that when the

:42:34. > :42:37.refurbishments of the tower was finished, there would have been a

:42:38. > :42:42.full inspection, which suggested to me that he has not seen any full

:42:43. > :42:46.inspection, and that raises the question as to whether there was a

:42:47. > :42:53.full inspection. Would-be leader of the council get to see that report?

:42:54. > :42:56.-- I think if he were going to be interviewed after a horrendous fire

:42:57. > :43:02.like this, I would expect him to be fully briefed, yes. Had he seen an

:43:03. > :43:06.inspection, he would have seen that the only fire escape, the single

:43:07. > :43:10.stairwell, was not part of the refurbishment. The lights were on

:43:11. > :43:14.but not working properly, clearly not working properly yesterday. We

:43:15. > :43:20.asked for that to being clued up, and they basically said we cannot do

:43:21. > :43:25.that is there isn't enough money, the country, not enough money to

:43:26. > :43:29.refurbish the fire escape. I think that is absolutely outrageous. What

:43:30. > :43:32.would that have achieved? It would have achieved working lights,

:43:33. > :43:37.possibly a fire alarm, and easier way for people to get down. If you

:43:38. > :43:45.have not seen the staircase, it is really manky and nasty. It is not

:43:46. > :43:52.central, it is at one side of the building, and it is the only fire

:43:53. > :43:59.escape. Right, OK. Sian Berry, what about yourself? Well, following

:44:00. > :44:03.previous incidents like this, the Lakanal House buyer, we came to the

:44:04. > :44:06.same conclusions as the coroner, and one of the recommendations was that

:44:07. > :44:10.fire risk assessments need to be published, need to be available

:44:11. > :44:14.online, not just for councils that need to see them, but a residence in

:44:15. > :44:19.the blocks to want to inspect the safety of their blocks, transparency

:44:20. > :44:24.is a real is you. Obviously, we have talked about the recommendations to

:44:25. > :44:27.change the fire regulations, and the difficulties that there are with you

:44:28. > :44:32.is responsible levels. The problem we have got is that there is a

:44:33. > :44:35.conflict of interest. The owners of buildings are the people responsible

:44:36. > :44:39.for carrying out fire risk assessments. There is no statutory

:44:40. > :44:46.process of signing things off, like they used to be. It is not the same

:44:47. > :44:51.as it used to be. I understand that, that is a very fair point. Are you

:44:52. > :44:55.suggesting that the landlord or management organisation in charge of

:44:56. > :45:00.a block, they don't do the fire assessment themselves, they would

:45:01. > :45:03.call in an expert. They are responsible for calling in an

:45:04. > :45:08.expert, and when the Fire Brigades did an assessment, they found 20%

:45:09. > :45:12.were not adequate, there are lots of questions about the people doing

:45:13. > :45:17.them. It is a lesser regime than it used to be, and that does seem to be

:45:18. > :45:20.an issue, especially when it comes to transparency and accountability

:45:21. > :45:23.to the residents. One of the real things we can see out of this is

:45:24. > :45:27.that the residents themselves were organised, looking at things in

:45:28. > :45:30.detail, they were making recommendations, and yet they seem

:45:31. > :45:34.to have been treated more or less like troublemakers, and that is

:45:35. > :45:37.something we are seeing right across London - residents are not treated

:45:38. > :45:41.with respect, and they are acting in the interests of their neighbours,

:45:42. > :45:44.they should be more involved in the management of their blocks, they

:45:45. > :45:49.should be treated better. I was going to say, the residents raised

:45:50. > :45:55.questions about the fire safety ever since the power surges in 2016. They

:45:56. > :45:59.asked them to pay for their own independent expert, looking at fire

:46:00. > :46:05.regulations and the situation there and they were told it was not

:46:06. > :46:08.necessary, that the TMO had commissioned their own expert, don't

:46:09. > :46:14.worry your pretty little heads about it, go away. What have the council

:46:15. > :46:18.been able to do in terms of urgency accommodation for those who were

:46:19. > :46:22.evacuated, those who escaped. Those evacuated as well from surrounding

:46:23. > :46:26.flats and houses. Some of those who have been evacuated went back to

:46:27. > :46:30.their homes, I think they went willingly, but as far as the

:46:31. > :46:32.Grenfell Tower residents are concerned, I had an e-mail this

:46:33. > :46:37.morning from a family that came from the tower, in a hotel in Earls

:46:38. > :46:43.Court, given no indication as whether they will stay for a second

:46:44. > :46:47.night or what their future will be. Everybody in temporary accommodation

:46:48. > :46:49.should be given the fullest information as to what... Is it

:46:50. > :46:53.possible there is not the fullest information yet? But surely they can

:46:54. > :46:57.be told if they can stay a second night because they have nowhere else

:46:58. > :47:01.to go, no belongings, nothing. Why are they in the dark like that, it

:47:02. > :47:06.adds to the horrendous experience they have been through. The Prime

:47:07. > :47:10.Minister Theresa May has arrived, we are hearing, in the vicinity of

:47:11. > :47:14.Grenfell Tower. Really. Yes. Well, she will not get a very good

:47:15. > :47:18.reception from the residents, residents are getting very angry.

:47:19. > :47:21.Yesterday they were traumatised and distraught, today they are

:47:22. > :47:25.exceedingly angry. Is that what you are finding? Yes, the residents were

:47:26. > :47:29.angry before this happened, they were warning of this, the anger out

:47:30. > :47:34.there, generally, across London, across the country, from people who

:47:35. > :47:37.have had similar experiences with refurbishments who still have

:47:38. > :47:44.unanswered questions, is rather huge. Councils around London, that

:47:45. > :47:47.run housing in London, they need to be getting the fullest possible

:47:48. > :47:50.information out of people about who has cladding that might be at risk

:47:51. > :47:54.and get them to do assessments of what the problems might be as soon

:47:55. > :47:58.as possible. People need reassurance, they feel let down.

:47:59. > :48:02.Here is a private visit from the Prime Minister. Really? She should

:48:03. > :48:06.probably be protected from the residents as she was protected from

:48:07. > :48:11.the electorate during the general election campaign. If she is to meet

:48:12. > :48:20.residents, what will they say to her? They would be extremely

:48:21. > :48:22.expletive deleted, but without the expletives deleted! They will tell

:48:23. > :48:27.her about what has been going on for five years, how their concerns have

:48:28. > :48:31.been sidelined, the towel refurbishment was done to them, not

:48:32. > :48:34.with them, and there were so many problems that were completely

:48:35. > :48:43.ignored throughout the process. -- the tower refurbishment. The

:48:44. > :48:50.board... And arm's-length management organisation, TMO, used to manage

:48:51. > :48:54.all the states in the Royal Borough. I raised all of these problems at

:48:55. > :48:58.the board, basically, they said, you are speaking only on behalf of those

:48:59. > :49:07.rabble-rousers, at Grenfell Tower, we can ignore you. How do you

:49:08. > :49:11.respond? We have a slightly new board now, slightly more supportive

:49:12. > :49:16.people, when I raise issues of concern to communities, they back me

:49:17. > :49:22.up, but that board was not in place then. Thank you both, and give very

:49:23. > :49:26.much. And thank you, Green Party chair of the London assembly housing

:49:27. > :49:32.committee. Thank you for your messages from around the country,

:49:33. > :49:38.this is from Twitter, your guest earlier hit the nail on the head,

:49:39. > :49:43.this was a local resident. How can a fridge exploding set fire to a whole

:49:44. > :49:46.block of flats? Craig on Twitter has said, what a fantastic response by

:49:47. > :49:52.the people of London, after the fire. What other local authorities

:49:53. > :49:57.doing? We are not hearing from them, these people need help. And this

:49:58. > :49:59.from somebody who does not leave their name, regular people with

:50:00. > :50:04.heartbreaking details and honest opinion, people rarely heard, honest

:50:05. > :50:08.and fair reporting from you this morning. I'm really interested to

:50:09. > :50:14.hear from you, if you live in a block of flats, whether you feel

:50:15. > :50:17.confident, how confident you feel about whether the association, the

:50:18. > :50:22.agency, the management organisation, the tenant organisation, which runs

:50:23. > :50:30.your block of flats, how confident you feel in them when it comes to

:50:31. > :50:35.keeping you safe? Good morning, we will bring you the latest news and

:50:36. > :50:41.sport in just a moment. It is much busier now, when we arrived first

:50:42. > :50:45.thing this morning, it was so quiet, I think perhaps people did not

:50:46. > :50:47.realise that some of the roads had reopened, the Westway, the main

:50:48. > :50:52.road, one of the main routes into the capital, is open. Latimer Road

:50:53. > :50:57.tube station is open, Ladbroke Grove is open, which is Notting Hill,

:50:58. > :51:03.which is where the Carnival is, which many of you will have been to.

:51:04. > :51:10.And now, you can still see people arriving to volunteer, have a look

:51:11. > :51:13.at these people, just signing in, volunteers, people who live locally

:51:14. > :51:18.and further afield. The message has got through, I think, no more

:51:19. > :51:25.donations are needed, no more donations needed. But, what they do

:51:26. > :51:38.need our helpers, and these are some helpers signing in. Good morning.

:51:39. > :51:42.Hello. Are you volunteering? The whole community is chipping in. They

:51:43. > :51:47.are taking our telephone numbers, and when it is needed we will come

:51:48. > :51:51.and help. It is good to know that they do not need help at the moment

:51:52. > :51:56.because so many people are already helping out. You will come back

:51:57. > :52:05.later if they need you? Yes, we live locally. We will try to help. Thank

:52:06. > :52:08.you. Thank you very much. So, the extraordinary community effort,

:52:09. > :52:12.another example of it there, to help the victims of the blaze. Brought

:52:13. > :52:17.together, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, in a perfect

:52:18. > :52:24.example of community spirit. Also, people like Adele turned up to a

:52:25. > :52:28.vigil, who was apparently hugging and comforting survivors. Churches

:52:29. > :52:31.and community centres have opened their doors from first light to

:52:32. > :52:34.accommodate those rescued from the blazing building and those who had

:52:35. > :52:38.been evacuated from surrounding homes. Let's talk now to some of

:52:39. > :52:45.those people who dedicated their time and effort, time and energy, I

:52:46. > :52:52.should say, to the support effort. Hello, Miranda, hello. How are you?

:52:53. > :53:02.Who else have we got here. Lukman. Hello. And Younes. I'm Victoria,

:53:03. > :53:06.thank you for speaking with us. Miranda, you headed to a church, you

:53:07. > :53:10.are not religious but you headed to a church to help. We are at the

:53:11. > :53:15.Notting Hill gate Methodist Church, there was a door open, the minister

:53:16. > :53:20.was there, one lady, one bag, we decided to turn it into a centre. We

:53:21. > :53:23.have had donations from the children, residents have come in

:53:24. > :53:27.telling us appalling stories about how they are still waiting for the

:53:28. > :53:35.families. But we did have 19-year-old girl who brought us in a

:53:36. > :53:39.pair of trainers, they will auction them, Nike trainers, thank you! What

:53:40. > :53:47.the people say when they bring their donations. They say... Well, we do

:53:48. > :53:50.not have time to chat with them, so we cannot chat with them, we have

:53:51. > :53:54.had people go to the rugby club, but the situation, everybody is

:53:55. > :54:02.horrified by this needless, pointless crime. You say crime? Yes,

:54:03. > :54:10.I use that word with passion. You use it advisory? This is a crime,

:54:11. > :54:15.needless, pointless, they have been asking for fire certificate safety

:54:16. > :54:21.certificate since 2014 and they never got one. I think it is

:54:22. > :54:26.shocking... We are not doing this... We should not have to be doing this!

:54:27. > :54:31.Had they taken care of everybody in the borough, not just the rich

:54:32. > :54:35.people...! This would not have happened. They would not have to

:54:36. > :54:40.suffer as they have. I was talking to one lady just now, cuddling her,

:54:41. > :54:44.she was crying, she has lost some family and some family are

:54:45. > :54:54.missing... Because that is what it is about, about the residence. --

:54:55. > :54:59.residents. Miranda is very emotional, totally understandable,

:55:00. > :55:03.tell us how you have been helping. Started off with somebody phoning me

:55:04. > :55:11.and telling me that they have some clothes to donate, a friend of mine.

:55:12. > :55:14.I live local, near the incident, I can get access to places more easily

:55:15. > :55:23.than him because all the roads were blocked off. Then I decided to call

:55:24. > :55:27.my friend, who had a vehicle, and basically, we formed some groups, on

:55:28. > :55:36.Whats App, and on Twitter, as well. We did not expect it to be as good

:55:37. > :55:41.as what it did turn out to be. Basically, people from Birmingham,

:55:42. > :55:45.Luton, Brentford, Wembley, all over, Muslims, non-Muslims, all of them

:55:46. > :55:51.phoning me. My phone did not stop ringing and ringing and ringing.

:55:52. > :55:55.With donations. Clothing. To the point, I used my house as a drop-off

:55:56. > :56:01.point as well because I live local as well. A lot of people with bands

:56:02. > :56:08.were helping me, to distribute all the things everywhere. -- vans and

:56:09. > :56:12.we managed to raise between five and ?8,000 as well. In one day. We did

:56:13. > :56:23.as well. -- we did as well. Separately?! We

:56:24. > :56:26.did as well, somebody came from North London to give us a lot of

:56:27. > :56:35.money, I will not say how much, but somebody gave us a lot of cash

:56:36. > :56:41.money. -- vans. And we managed to raise between ?5,000 and ?8,000.

:56:42. > :56:47.Cash donations, but no more goods. Tell us what you have been doing. He

:56:48. > :56:52.phoned me in the early hours of the morning, he said, I need to use your

:56:53. > :56:57.car, to collect, we have clothes in Wembley. To bring it back to the

:56:58. > :57:05.people that need it. In Grenfell Tower. I came in my car, collecting

:57:06. > :57:14.trainers, clothes, things like that, distributing it to the people that

:57:15. > :57:18.need it. I am part of a Leytonstone education trust, we are a mosque and

:57:19. > :57:22.educational centre, community centre, one of the first mosques out

:57:23. > :57:28.of many to respond yesterday. Within a few hours, the whole back wall was

:57:29. > :57:33.packed with food items and essentials. This is not just a North

:57:34. > :57:41.Kensington effort, this is London, data London, further afield do come

:57:42. > :57:48.together, we will have two invade each other's body space. I am a

:57:49. > :57:53.part-time imam at the mosque, and in the month of Ramadan, as Muslims, as

:57:54. > :57:57.non-Muslims, as a community, coming together and giving something back.

:57:58. > :58:01.We are receiving donations not just from Leytonstone and Stratford but

:58:02. > :58:06.also from places like Luton, places like Ilford as well, people from all

:58:07. > :58:10.over London and outside of London coming in and participating, it is a

:58:11. > :58:15.community effort. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, thanks for

:58:16. > :58:20.talking to us, we appreciate it. Coming up to 10am, we will bring you

:58:21. > :58:21.the latest news and sport in just a moment. Before that, the weather

:58:22. > :58:30.forecast. Things turning a little bit fresher

:58:31. > :58:33.today, warm, muggy night, pretty uncomfortable for sleeping for many

:58:34. > :58:39.of us. Here is the scene taken early on by one of the weather Watchers in

:58:40. > :58:44.North Wales. More sunshine later on, scattered showers, and the fresher

:58:45. > :58:48.feel to the weather, particularly as we had through the afternoon. Cold

:58:49. > :58:53.front moving west to east across the country, a band of cloud, really,

:58:54. > :58:58.with light showers, but any showers fading away as it pushes towards the

:58:59. > :59:01.south-east. Then we are left with some sunshine but also scattered

:59:02. > :59:06.showers, particularly for Scotland and Northern Ireland as well.

:59:07. > :59:10.Further south, plenty of sunshine, temperatures in the West 17 or 18

:59:11. > :59:14.degrees, little bit cooler than recent days, warmer than that

:59:15. > :59:19.further east, where you keep the warm air for longer. One or two

:59:20. > :59:21.shower was propping up through northern England but Northern

:59:22. > :59:24.Ireland and Scotland will have the bulk of the showers. Some of them

:59:25. > :59:28.quite heavy, could be the odd rumble of thunder, quite blustery with

:59:29. > :59:32.gusty winds in and around the showers. Moving through into the

:59:33. > :59:35.evening, fine end to the day for many of us, showers in the north

:59:36. > :59:40.tending to ease away as we had through the overnight period, mostly

:59:41. > :59:45.dry through the early hours, not quite as hot and muggy as it was

:59:46. > :59:48.last night. Temperatures around 12, 13 degrees, cooler than they were

:59:49. > :59:51.first thing this morning. Through the day tomorrow, a lot of dry

:59:52. > :59:55.weather once again with sunshine particularly in the south and the

:59:56. > :59:59.East, more clouds towards the north-west with rain across Northern

:00:00. > :00:07.Ireland and into Scotland. Temperature wise, we could see 23,

:00:08. > :00:09.24 degrees. Fresher than that further north. As high pressure

:00:10. > :00:13.builds through the South as we had through Friday night, that will be

:00:14. > :00:18.the driving force of the weather, low pressure system bringing the

:00:19. > :00:21.front, fairly cloudy, breezy and damp for the north-west of Scotland,

:00:22. > :00:27.but elsewhere, it is looking dry once again. Light wind and sunshine,

:00:28. > :00:32.temperature likely to reach around 28 degrees during the course of

:00:33. > :00:37.Saturday. Into Sunday, that heat rising even more, we could see 30

:00:38. > :00:40.degrees towards the south-east. Cooler towards the north-west, some

:00:41. > :00:45.rain across the North West of Scotland. Elsewhere, looking dry.

:00:46. > :00:50.Plenty more summery weather on the cards, through much of the next few

:00:51. > :00:56.days, into the weekend, you can find a full tender 10-day forecast at the

:00:57. > :01:00.website. -- you can find a full ten day forecast.

:01:01. > :01:04.Hello, it's Thursday, it's ten o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:01:05. > :01:08.Prime Minister Theresa May is meeting residents and firefighters

:01:09. > :01:15.at the Grenfell Tower block now, about 150 metres or so away from

:01:16. > :01:19.where we are broadcasting to you from in North Kensington. But what

:01:20. > :01:25.kind of reception issues getting? They will be exceedingly expletive

:01:26. > :01:31.deleted, but without the deletions, they will be telling her what has

:01:32. > :01:34.been going on for the last five years, how their concerns have been

:01:35. > :01:39.ignored, they have at the tower Ruth Jebet done to them, not with them,

:01:40. > :01:40.and there were so many problems which were completely ignored. --

:01:41. > :01:41.tower refurbishment. Fire still blazes in some

:01:42. > :01:44.parts in the charred The death toll remains at 12

:01:45. > :01:49.but that is expected to rise as dozens of people

:01:50. > :02:14.are still unaccounted for. I saw around about six children all

:02:15. > :02:22.crying for help, and within, I would say by 1:30, that all top of the

:02:23. > :02:26.building halfway down, smoke just got into the flats, everything went

:02:27. > :02:27.black. And you never saw anybody again.

:02:28. > :02:33.This is the scene at Grenfell Tower now, where firefighters

:02:34. > :02:38.are still trying to bring the fire under control.

:02:39. > :02:39.Firefighters have been explaining the difficult circumstances

:02:40. > :02:51.It is very difficult for people to comprehend, when they look at a

:02:52. > :02:55.building, why we cannot just go in and see it, but due to the severity

:02:56. > :02:58.of the fire and what happens in those circumstances, everything

:02:59. > :03:00.inside all of those rooms, basically, ends up on the floor in

:03:01. > :03:05.large amounts of volumes of stuff. Many questions continue to be asked

:03:06. > :03:07.about what caused the blaze and what can be done to ensure

:03:08. > :03:21.it never happens again. One problem that people we have

:03:22. > :03:25.spoken to say the regulations around the panels are quite sketchy. You

:03:26. > :03:30.can have a situation where there is fire retardant material on the

:03:31. > :03:34.outside, but on the inside, on the back, it is not fire resistant, and

:03:35. > :03:38.that can lead to a situation where the inside burns through, and people

:03:39. > :03:48.say that can lead to a chimney effect.

:03:49. > :03:54.Hello, good morning. Theresa May, the Prime Minister, has arrived at

:03:55. > :03:59.the Grenfell Tower block in the last few minutes. We are told that she is

:04:00. > :04:03.meeting residents, and she is meeting firefighters. It is a

:04:04. > :04:09.private meeting, there are no media there. That is about 150 metres or

:04:10. > :04:12.so from where we are in North Kensington, this is the Westway

:04:13. > :04:16.sports centre, and on this basketball pitch you will see

:04:17. > :04:22.hundreds and hundreds of bags and boxes and nappies and clothes that

:04:23. > :04:27.people have donated over the last 24 hours or so. So much stuff has been

:04:28. > :04:31.brought, as we were hearing before the news, not just by people who

:04:32. > :04:36.live here but across London, Greater London and further afield. And the

:04:37. > :04:39.messages, thanks so much for the things you have broad, they don't

:04:40. > :04:44.need anything else at the moment. But they do need volunteers, people

:04:45. > :04:48.volunteering, many of them live in a local area, they are signing a sheet

:04:49. > :04:53.to say, if you need us, ring me, here is my name, here is my number.

:04:54. > :04:59.The idea small group of volunteers here, would-be volunteers, is the

:05:00. > :05:03.sports centre. Last night they offered 300 beds for those who have

:05:04. > :05:09.been evacuated from the houses and flats around Grenfell Tower. In the

:05:10. > :05:13.end, about 40-50 people stayed in that sport centre, they had beds,

:05:14. > :05:17.showers, booed. We are told that some people inside are incredibly

:05:18. > :05:23.traumatised by what they witnessed, and there are mental health workers

:05:24. > :05:29.and social workers who are on hand to talk to them. What is also

:05:30. > :05:34.astonishing, 24 hours after that lays first began, there are still

:05:35. > :05:37.parts of the building still alight. Firefighters are still there, they

:05:38. > :05:43.have worked through the night again to dampen the fire at the block of

:05:44. > :05:46.flats. 12 people officially dead, although that number is expected to

:05:47. > :05:51.rise significantly, with many, many still missing.

:05:52. > :05:53.They include Jessica Urbano Ramirez, a 12-year-old who's believed to have

:05:54. > :05:56.become separated from her family when the blaze broke out.

:05:57. > :05:58.Husna Begum, who lived on the 17th floor

:05:59. > :06:01.and is missing with four other members of her family.

:06:02. > :06:04.27-year-old Mariem Elgwahry, a marketing manager,

:06:05. > :06:07.who is believed to have last spoken to someone

:06:08. > :06:14.66-year-old retired lorry driver Tony Disson,

:06:15. > :06:18.who lived on the 22nd floor of Grenfell Tower.

:06:19. > :06:21.Mo Tuccu, a British national from Eritrea,

:06:22. > :06:24.who was visiting friends or family at the Grenfell Tower

:06:25. > :06:26.with his wife Amalahmedin and three-year-old daughter Amayah.

:06:27. > :06:31.They had gone to break their Ramadan fast.

:06:32. > :06:34.24-year-old artist Khadija Saye, who lived on the 20th floor.

:06:35. > :06:38.Labour MP David Lammy's wife was her employer and mentor.

:06:39. > :06:41.He tweeted, "If you have any information about Khadija Saye,

:06:42. > :06:47."She is our dear friend, a beautiful soul and emerging artist."

:06:48. > :06:52.Khadija's mother, Mary Mendy, is also missing.

:06:53. > :06:59.Here's a reminder of the last 24 hours.

:07:00. > :07:07.So mums, dads, a marketing manager, an artist, so it goes on, so many

:07:08. > :07:10.people unaccounted for. As I mentioned, flames can still be seen

:07:11. > :07:12.inside the tower block, here is a reminder of the last 24 hours.

:07:13. > :07:17.A massive fire in a west London tower block,

:07:18. > :07:21.many people are being treated for injuries.

:07:22. > :07:27.Move right back, please! Thank you very much!

:07:28. > :07:40.The movement of the fire across the entire building

:07:41. > :07:43.didn't take more than half an hour, so I would say from 1:30am

:07:44. > :07:50.until 2am was just about, by two o'clock it was all in flames.

:07:51. > :07:54.Things falling out, people screaming,

:07:55. > :07:58.Chucking ropes down what they'd made out of bed sheets

:07:59. > :08:03.Just complete nightmare. Absolute nightmare.

:08:04. > :08:07.people flashing their phone lights for help.

:08:08. > :08:10.But the Fire Brigade can't get upstairs.

:08:11. > :08:13.People like at their windows, "Help me, help me, help me."

:08:14. > :08:15.And you could see the fire going into the house

:08:16. > :08:17.and into the last room that they're in

:08:18. > :08:20.and just engulfing their whole apartment.

:08:21. > :08:31.because there was no other way to save them.

:08:32. > :08:34.They were, from what I have heard, also people have picked

:08:35. > :08:37.up their kids and thrown them out for the police to pick them up

:08:38. > :08:40.because there was no other way out the building.

:08:41. > :08:44.I'm very sad to confirm that there have been a number of fatalities.

:08:45. > :08:46.It was like waking up in a horror film.

:08:47. > :08:48.How did you get out, then, Michael? Just my wits.

:08:49. > :08:51.I just, you know, I had to get her out.

:08:52. > :08:53.I love them, so what was I going to do?

:08:54. > :08:57.I'm not going to run on my own, so I made sure she was all right

:08:58. > :08:59.with her breathing and I got down the stairs.

:09:00. > :09:02.And when we got out and looked up, it was engulfed.

:09:03. > :09:04.That's what I'm saying, if we was in there another five

:09:05. > :09:07.minutes we wouldn't even have been able to get out.

:09:08. > :09:09.With the thickness of the smoke that was coming up.

:09:10. > :09:14.Seventh. Seven, yeah?

:09:15. > :09:16.There's mothers that have come out and lost their children.

:09:17. > :09:19.There are firefighters that have come out injured.

:09:20. > :09:22.Like we don't know if there are even going to come out safe.

:09:23. > :09:24.We saw lot. We saw a lot, man.

:09:25. > :09:27.We saw, we saw a lot with our own eyes.

:09:28. > :09:34.It's all right, you don't have to say any more.

:09:35. > :09:41.You've got family who are on the 18th floor?

:09:42. > :09:42.Yeah. And you spoke to them last night?

:09:43. > :09:44.Yeah. And they were saying what?

:09:45. > :09:47.Smoke. Can't get out because of the smoke.

:09:48. > :09:52.So I suspect, I don't know what I would do if I was them,

:09:53. > :09:58.Hoping that the Fire Brigade would get up there.

:09:59. > :10:00.Because that's what they are told to do, isn't it?

:10:01. > :10:03.They are told to stay in the flat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:10:04. > :10:06.So they would have stayed in there, waited and followed instructions.

:10:07. > :10:08.Nothing else you can do from the 18th floor.

:10:09. > :10:11.We don't know if they're alive or dead,

:10:12. > :10:14.if they are in hospital or not. We have not any clue.

:10:15. > :10:23.I just, I just want everything to be false and I don't want to...

:10:24. > :10:25.Our focus now is search and rescue,

:10:26. > :10:28.and then move to, I'm afraid, recovery.

:10:29. > :10:32.And of course we've got to make sure in the meantime

:10:33. > :10:35.we provide shelter to those who've had to flee their homes.

:10:36. > :10:38.I've just come to offer my house, places to stay.

:10:39. > :10:44.I can take about six to eight people in, for as long as they need it.

:10:45. > :10:47.Just basically letting the community know to get together,

:10:48. > :10:49.just to urge them to come, put their names down

:10:50. > :11:00.for who can help and whatever they can offer, really.

:11:01. > :11:07.WE HAVE SOME FIGURES JUST IN FROM NHS ENGLAND, AND THESE ARE to do

:11:08. > :11:13.with people treated in hospitals across London. NHS England tell us

:11:14. > :11:17.that King's College Hospital, they received ten patients, and six

:11:18. > :11:20.remain critical. Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, they receive

:11:21. > :11:25.nine patients, seven remain critical. At the Royal Three, six

:11:26. > :11:30.patients, one critical. Guys and Saint Thomas, one admission, that

:11:31. > :11:35.individual is not said to be in a critical condition. And that St

:11:36. > :11:41.Mary's, 11 admission is, 11 patients, three of those patients

:11:42. > :11:50.are critical. People who either got out themselves or were rescued from

:11:51. > :11:57.Grenfell Tower. Let me introduce you now to two people, thank you very

:11:58. > :12:02.much for talking to us. You have volunteered to help families in

:12:03. > :12:07.particular who are searching for missing loved ones. How are you able

:12:08. > :12:13.to help? I am helping by interpreting from Ethiopian

:12:14. > :12:18.languages to English, and also the Eritrean community as well, to find

:12:19. > :12:26.their missing loved ones. What about yourself? As the Muslim community,

:12:27. > :12:31.we know that 90% of people living in the building were Islam, and most of

:12:32. > :12:39.the missing people, they are families, families missing, so it is

:12:40. > :12:48.a big hit for the Muslim community, but there is a whole missing from my

:12:49. > :12:52.primary school, and I know another family in person, and all of that

:12:53. > :13:02.missing as well, six people, three children, Mum, dad and the mother of

:13:03. > :13:09.the mum, bisulphite or two girls Arabic language. When you are

:13:10. > :13:14.talking about several Tom Bowker families, you are talking about

:13:15. > :13:22.several generations. I know six families. Six families? We start to

:13:23. > :13:29.receive the message, we have been passing messages to each other, and

:13:30. > :13:34.all of that is passing between us as a community. And as you are doing

:13:35. > :13:46.your translating, I mean, what sort of people are the families that you

:13:47. > :13:52.are helping? I had a report of three families, all groups, and they don't

:13:53. > :13:56.have any information on their whereabouts, if they are

:13:57. > :14:00.hospitalised, they are not getting any information to tell us where

:14:01. > :14:11.they are. And we are also looking for a five-year-old, and a

:14:12. > :14:15.three-year-old girl. In terms of not getting information, so no-one

:14:16. > :14:20.official, no-one in authority is talking to the families you are

:14:21. > :14:24.helping? They are not giving us any information, they are not willing to

:14:25. > :14:27.give information to tell us which hospital they are in, if they have

:14:28. > :14:33.been admitted to any hospitals, or if they have been found, or if they

:14:34. > :14:37.are alive. Is it possible they do not know themselves? There is that

:14:38. > :14:45.possibility but I mean, it would be nice, you know, even no, we do not

:14:46. > :14:50.know is an answer, and we haven't even got that kind of answer. The

:14:51. > :14:53.families need to be told whether they do have some information or

:14:54. > :14:59.whether they don't have the information. Sure, I understand, OK.

:15:00. > :15:08.Thank you very much... We are angry as a community, because we think the

:15:09. > :15:14.rescue teams could do more, people were stuck in the building, and I am

:15:15. > :15:20.just wondering why they didn't, instead of just relying on rescue

:15:21. > :15:23.from the ground. They should use something from the air, and they did

:15:24. > :15:28.not. We think they could have saved a much more families.

:15:29. > :15:34.The response has been from the community, rather than the local

:15:35. > :15:38.council or the government, also, most people that have given aid and

:15:39. > :15:42.come to give assistance are people of the community. Thank you, thank

:15:43. > :15:54.you both, thank you. Introducing you now to lay the's

:15:55. > :16:01.housing spokesman, John Healey. Good morning. Have you been to see the

:16:02. > :16:05.block? I have not, I have been talking to firefighters who have

:16:06. > :16:12.been there, and they have never seen anything like it in 30 years of

:16:13. > :16:14.firefighting. It should never have happened, that is what people are

:16:15. > :16:23.saying, it should never have happened. I guess the investigation

:16:24. > :16:29.will tell us that, I'm very mindful, as we look at the wider concerns

:16:30. > :16:32.today, many people are still missing, firefighters still trying

:16:33. > :16:36.to get too many parts of the building, for the first time,

:16:37. > :16:40.hundreds of people have lost everything, they are now homeless.

:16:41. > :16:46.Bearing that in mind, what is also clear is that they, the residents,

:16:47. > :16:50.and others, have really serious questions to put to ministers and

:16:51. > :16:55.the people who run the building. What are the questions that you as a

:16:56. > :16:59.politician would like to see answered, and quickly? For me, I'm

:17:00. > :17:02.glad the Prime Minister is coming for herself this morning, I'm glad

:17:03. > :17:07.she has announced a review, that must not be delayed, it really

:17:08. > :17:11.should report before the summer. The government does not need to wait

:17:12. > :17:15.before then -- until then, it can act on recommendations made by

:17:16. > :17:19.coroners four years ago after the fire in Camberwell. First of all,

:17:20. > :17:23.they can and should start installing sprinkler systems in some of the

:17:24. > :17:27.higher risk high-rise blocks around the country, it should overhaul

:17:28. > :17:31.building regulations which it promised to do four years ago,

:17:32. > :17:34.finally, it really should make sure there is better clear advice and

:17:35. > :17:40.information to residents in tower blocks about what to do in the awful

:17:41. > :17:47.event that they are faced with fire. Theresa May is here. We are told.

:17:48. > :17:52.Meeting firefighters and residents. Jeremy Corbyn is coming after that,

:17:53. > :17:58.is that correct? I'm joining Jeremy Irons 11am, just after speaking with

:17:59. > :18:01.you, we will speak with the firefighters, we will speak to some

:18:02. > :18:05.of those who have been staffing these community rescue centres. One

:18:06. > :18:10.of the things that the brand-new MP told you last night, when I spoke

:18:11. > :18:16.with her, the support centres have been totally swamped with clothes,

:18:17. > :18:22.blankets, food, and love, and that has been another remarkable

:18:23. > :18:27.demonstration of how people pull together to help others, when the

:18:28. > :18:32.very worst is faced. Why do you think the recommendations from the

:18:33. > :18:37.fire in Camberwell in south London have not been implemented when that

:18:38. > :18:42.fire was so many years ago? Ministers were clear at the time,

:18:43. > :18:45.they rejected out of hand two recommendations, they said that they

:18:46. > :18:51.would review the building regulations, which are the Bible for

:18:52. > :18:55.designers, builders, those that build these buildings and do

:18:56. > :19:00.refurbishments. The review has not been started. How do you know? The

:19:01. > :19:05.latest Housing Minister confirmed in October they did not have a plan to

:19:06. > :19:08.even start the review. It has been shelved, put on the shelf for four

:19:09. > :19:14.years, it has not been started, no plan to start it, and that... That

:19:15. > :19:17.is an urgent piece of work which could be done alongside getting on

:19:18. > :19:21.with the business of retrofitting is the technical term, putting

:19:22. > :19:28.sprinkler systems into high-rise blocks, starting with the once that

:19:29. > :19:33.our highest risk, and that should be done... Should that be mandatory? It

:19:34. > :19:37.should be started without delay, I have had confirmation that the calls

:19:38. > :19:41.I have made and Labour has been making over the Minister to come to

:19:42. > :19:46.the House of Commons this afternoon will happen. Our Parliament is

:19:47. > :19:50.paralysed by the paralysis of Downing Street so cannot formally

:19:51. > :19:54.meet until after the Queen's speech but a minister will come, there will

:19:55. > :19:59.be a public session, he will make a statement, MPs, particularly those

:20:00. > :20:02.that represent areas around here, have been working with people who

:20:03. > :20:06.have been trying to deal with this terrible fire, they have a chance to

:20:07. > :20:12.start asking some of the questions that people have been raising with

:20:13. > :20:16.you, and raising with them. Thank you very much. John Healey, Labour's

:20:17. > :20:22.housing spokesman. As you know, they were the first

:20:23. > :20:26.ones in and some of the last out, praise and tributes continue to pour

:20:27. > :20:32.in for the 200 firefighters who tackled and continued to tackle

:20:33. > :20:42.yesterday's blaze in the most challenging circumstances.

:20:43. > :20:44.Grateful Londoners cheered them in the street for their "selfless"

:20:45. > :20:47.work to save men, women and children trapped as flames ripped

:20:48. > :20:50.This Evening Standard photographer described the scene

:20:51. > :20:57.Over the years working for the Evening Standard I have seen some

:20:58. > :21:07.awful things but this has two rate as one of the worst. I felt

:21:08. > :22:08.helpless. -- this has to rate as one of the worst.

:22:09. > :22:16.Theresa May, the Prime Minister, has left the area around Grenfell Tower,

:22:17. > :22:19.she has been here this morning, meeting residents and firefighters,

:22:20. > :22:31.it was a private visit, no media was allowed. A short time ago, Dany

:22:32. > :22:34.Cotton spoke to us and explain the latest. Terribly difficult inside

:22:35. > :22:38.the building, difficult for people to comprehend when they look at the

:22:39. > :22:42.building wife we cannot just go in, but due to the severity of the fire,

:22:43. > :22:45.and what happened in those circumstances, that everything

:22:46. > :22:49.inside all of those rooms basically ends up on the floor, in large

:22:50. > :22:53.amounts of volume of staff, combined with the amount of water in there,

:22:54. > :22:57.it becomes very difficult for officers to get in there and in

:22:58. > :23:00.order to do a systematic and proper search, we need to make the building

:23:01. > :23:02.safe so that officers can get in there and go through it. We are

:23:03. > :23:07.aware that there are people unaccounted for, family and friends

:23:08. > :23:12.are very distressed and need to know the whereabouts of loved ones. We

:23:13. > :23:15.are doing everything we can to work as hard as we can with police and

:23:16. > :23:22.other colleagues to make that happen. Can you tell us a little bit

:23:23. > :23:25.about the immediate aftermath, when officers first arrived, what were

:23:26. > :23:32.they able to do, what levels were they able to reach? Very early on in

:23:33. > :23:42.the fire, my firefighters battled through intense heat, to reach some

:23:43. > :23:46.of the higher floors. I spoke to a crew who had been to the 20th floor.

:23:47. > :23:47.We targeted flats where we were getting calls where we knew where

:23:48. > :24:12.people were. We committed crew of the crew into a

:24:13. > :24:15.very dangerous and very hot situation because we had a passion

:24:16. > :24:20.to do as much as we could to rescue the people in there. It was a very

:24:21. > :24:23.challenging, very difficult, very traumatic event for everyone

:24:24. > :24:29.involved. Have any of your officers been injured? We had minor injuries

:24:30. > :24:32.yesterday, up to nine of my firefighters suffered minor burns.

:24:33. > :24:48.Some heat exhaustion. I'm more concerned longer term

:24:49. > :24:51.about the mental impact on a lot of people who were here,

:24:52. > :24:54.because this event was unprecedented and people saw and heard

:24:55. > :24:57.things on a scale they had Going forward, one of my main

:24:58. > :25:01.concerns for firefighters is about mental well-being and doing trauma

:25:02. > :25:11.care and counselling for them. I understand the point you made

:25:12. > :25:14.about the difficult circumstances The figure of those confirmed dead,

:25:15. > :25:17.the police figure, so far, 12 confirmed dead, they have warned

:25:18. > :25:20.they expect that figure Unfortunately, this is the awful

:25:21. > :25:25.thing for the people involved, we are unaware of how many people

:25:26. > :25:27.are in the building, as you can appreciate,

:25:28. > :25:30.this is a very large building with a large number

:25:31. > :25:33.of people in there. Some people may have lived alone,

:25:34. > :25:37.we are not sure if they are in there People who were reported missing

:25:38. > :25:41.who subsequently may have been We are completely unaware

:25:42. > :25:48.at the moment, we can only work with numbers

:25:49. > :25:51.in the local authority and police As soon as we can, we will go

:25:52. > :25:55.into the building and do the painstaking fingertip search

:25:56. > :26:04.in conjunction with Had me introduce you to the general

:26:05. > :26:13.secretary for the Fire Brigades union, also a firefighter for 22

:26:14. > :26:18.years, good morning, Matt Wrack, and Ronnie king, a firefighter for 40

:26:19. > :26:20.years in London, Wales, Scotland and a chief fire officer for 20 years

:26:21. > :26:25.and is now a administrative secretary for the all party Fire

:26:26. > :26:29.safety and rescue group. First of all, as former firefighters, can you

:26:30. > :26:34.give an insight to the audience as to what it is like when you arrive

:26:35. > :26:41.at the scene of a blaze like the one we saw yesterday? The first thing to

:26:42. > :26:43.say, looking around the site, horrifying, we have not seen

:26:44. > :26:48.anything like that, I certainly have not. I have been too many fires in

:26:49. > :26:53.high-rise tower blocks but I have never seen anything like this. What

:26:54. > :26:57.firefighters have been prepared for and train for is one thing but what

:26:58. > :27:02.they saw here, completely different. You expect the fire to be contained

:27:03. > :27:07.to the flat, the floor of origin. What we saw, as we have seen, the

:27:08. > :27:10.entire building engulfed in flames, the people arriving first will have

:27:11. > :27:17.been in complete shock and will not have been prepared for this,

:27:18. > :27:24.absolutely staggering. Having been a fireman, and chief fire officer, I

:27:25. > :27:28.have arrived at incidents were command decisions have been made and

:27:29. > :27:33.it has got to a certain level of resources... In this case, I think

:27:34. > :27:37.if I had arrived at that, and we got to the period where we are, where we

:27:38. > :27:46.were, when perhaps the chief fire officer arrived, you would have then

:27:47. > :27:51.expected a plan of attack, a strategy, and whether to concentrate

:27:52. > :27:58.on water or rescue. There is a point reached where both run

:27:59. > :28:03.simultaneously. Very stressful situation for everybody involved. I

:28:04. > :28:10.can do nothing but praise firefighters and officers. Does it

:28:11. > :28:18.surprise you, is it unusual that there are still blazes burning in

:28:19. > :28:20.the centre of that block? No, clearly, what is remarkable is that

:28:21. > :28:24.firefighters throughout that incident were on upper floors,

:28:25. > :28:30.trying to rescue people, large numbers of people have been rescued,

:28:31. > :28:36.horrendous loss of life, the work that firefighters do, rescuing large

:28:37. > :28:41.numbers of people, is incredible. They are at the stage now, the final

:28:42. > :28:45.stages of eliminating the last bits of fire, smoke, heat, the safety of

:28:46. > :28:51.the building, the safety of the cruise becomes paramount as well.

:28:52. > :28:55.There have been photographs of firefighters clearly very

:28:56. > :29:03.emotionally affected by what they saw. Has that happened to you?

:29:04. > :29:08.Firefighters have ways of dealing with these sorts of incidences.

:29:09. > :29:13.There is a humour, a camaraderie, all of that plays a role. I suspect

:29:14. > :29:16.every firefighter will have things that will stick with them for the

:29:17. > :29:20.rest of their lives, incidents they have been to, particular horrors

:29:21. > :29:24.they have seen. There is a greater awareness than when I was around and

:29:25. > :29:27.Ronnie was around about mental health issues. There are better

:29:28. > :29:32.counselling services than there was 20 years ago, or more. That is

:29:33. > :29:39.something that great deal more effort needs to be put into in this

:29:40. > :29:43.day and age. This stay put policy, to allow firefighters to get up

:29:44. > :29:47.stairwells, so they are not impeded by people trying to get out in a

:29:48. > :29:50.situation like that, does that stay put policy have to be reviewed,

:29:51. > :30:00.after what happened at Grenfell Tower? It was reviewed after 2009,

:30:01. > :30:06.Lakanal House, the inquest was 2013. It is a very difficult one. The

:30:07. > :30:10.building, its fabric, its protection, is designed for people

:30:11. > :30:16.to stay in their flats, for one hour, at least, you would expect the

:30:17. > :30:20.flat not to be penetrated, you would expect the escape route of the

:30:21. > :30:26.integral and people can escape safely, something obviously did not

:30:27. > :30:29.their right here. Whether it was there were failings in the escape

:30:30. > :30:37.route facilities, penetrations into the fire resistance...

:30:38. > :30:45.There has been talk about the cladding and the effect of the

:30:46. > :30:50.cladding on the building. Basically, London building acts were amended in

:30:51. > :30:54.1986, and they were overtaken by the building regulations for the rest of

:30:55. > :31:01.the UK - London falling in line with the rest of the UK. The outside wall

:31:02. > :31:06.of a building, this building, would have hard and our's resistance under

:31:07. > :31:08.the London building act. When it was replaced by the building

:31:09. > :31:17.regulations, the building regulations only allow - or do allow

:31:18. > :31:21.a surface which is a much weaker provision of fire resistance. In

:31:22. > :31:32.fact, it is no fire as a stance on the outside. We have to revisit

:31:33. > :31:36.that. Can I just interrupt? I am a layperson, I have no experience of

:31:37. > :31:41.fire safety, but you are telling me that it is OK for the outside of a

:31:42. > :31:45.building, the exterior of a building, to be a bit fire

:31:46. > :31:49.resistant, but the whole thing doesn't have to be fire assistant,

:31:50. > :31:54.is that what you are saying to me? That is right, yes. I don't

:31:55. > :31:59.understand it. A building close by not to be affected by a fire in that

:32:00. > :32:05.building, not for this building to be affected by a fire spreading

:32:06. > :32:12.upwards and internally. So it really came out of Lakanal, but the coroner

:32:13. > :32:17.ruled that was the appropriate legislation at the time, so it

:32:18. > :32:23.complied. But what we have said, four years since the Lakanal House

:32:24. > :32:29.fire, we have been saying successfully, successively sorry,

:32:30. > :32:34.two ministers over the period of four years, to say we need to review

:32:35. > :32:40.the regulations. What response have you had, if you have said it to four

:32:41. > :32:45.ministers? Three ministers over four years, they say they are looking at

:32:46. > :32:49.it. Fire deaths have gone down, and while there has been an opt in this

:32:50. > :32:54.year, generally fire safety is a good news, but you get something

:32:55. > :32:58.like this, you got a warning with Lakanal, and we have said you must

:32:59. > :33:02.take steps. I mean, the coroner said we should be looking at automatic

:33:03. > :33:08.fire sprinkler protection in buildings. 4000 high-rise flats in

:33:09. > :33:15.the United Kingdom. 4000 tower blocks. Without sprinklers. That is

:33:16. > :33:21.a scandal. If it was new, they would be installed? Yes, but the

:33:22. > :33:26.regulations are for new buildings, or major refurbishments. But we need

:33:27. > :33:31.to do a revisit, we have asked the ministers, they are saying, yes, we

:33:32. > :33:35.are still looking at it. In fact, Gavin Barwell was about to meet the

:33:36. > :33:40.all-party group. The former housing minister lost his job at the

:33:41. > :33:46.election and has been made to me's chief of staff. Once the election

:33:47. > :33:51.was announced, he had to say whether he was going to agree, we will now

:33:52. > :34:01.revisit the regulations, that might have been what he was going to say.

:34:02. > :34:06.Perhaps he will qualify that. We Avastin for an interview, so far

:34:07. > :34:09.without success. Matt Wrack, you are from the Fire Brigades Union, some

:34:10. > :34:14.are linking the closure of ten fire stations with the loss of 552 jobs,

:34:15. > :34:18.made by the former Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, with what happened at

:34:19. > :34:25.Grenfell Tower. You, however, are very cautious about making that

:34:26. > :34:28.link, as I understand it. We have still got an incident going on,

:34:29. > :34:32.there are still people missing, still people doing their job, and I

:34:33. > :34:36.think we need to concentrate on that. I want to separate the two

:34:37. > :34:41.issues at this stage, the whole thing needs to be investigated, and

:34:42. > :34:44.clearly we were opposed to those reductions, we think they made

:34:45. > :34:50.London is less safe. Whether it has had a direct impact on this incident

:34:51. > :34:55.I cannot stay at this stage. In terms of this incident, echoing

:34:56. > :34:59.Ronnie's point, the question arises, how can it even happen? We will find

:35:00. > :35:04.out this was an avoidable tragedy, and that is horrifying in a wealthy

:35:05. > :35:10.country, that this can happen. Why do you think we will find out it was

:35:11. > :35:14.avoidable? As Ronnie has just explained, there is huge amount of

:35:15. > :35:19.expertise around buildings, how they react in fires, how you can detect

:35:20. > :35:23.them, and what needs to be put in place. Within the Fire Service,

:35:24. > :35:28.there is a huge amount of expertise about how you deal with buyers when

:35:29. > :35:31.they happen. If those are put together, we can significantly

:35:32. > :35:38.reduce the risk to residents living in accommodation like that.

:35:39. > :35:42.Something has gone horrifyingly wrong for us to be standing here

:35:43. > :35:47.today. Our reporter spoke to the architect of Grenfell Tower, who

:35:48. > :35:53.said it was in Cumbria and support to him that the fire spread in the

:35:54. > :35:58.way it did. -- who said it was incomprehensible to him that the

:35:59. > :36:02.fire spread in the way it did. What should the mayor do? He has said

:36:03. > :36:06.that this needs to be thoroughly investigated. There is a huge amount

:36:07. > :36:11.of support, fantastic community solidarity which is great to see,

:36:12. > :36:17.and a whole estate has been... It is very eerie over there, the whole

:36:18. > :36:20.state has been evacuated. People need immediate support, so the

:36:21. > :36:27.authorities, the mayor need to do that. In terms of the incident, I

:36:28. > :36:34.think this has to be very thoroughly addressed, and all interested

:36:35. > :36:38.parties, including Ronnie and his colleagues, ourselves, community

:36:39. > :36:40.groups, people who have lived there, have copyright to ask very

:36:41. > :36:47.challenging questions about why this happened. Could it have been

:36:48. > :36:50.foreseen? Could it have been prevented? Matt Wrack, general

:36:51. > :36:55.secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, and Ronnie King, chair of the

:36:56. > :37:02.all-party fire and safety rescue group. Good morning, it is 10:36, I

:37:03. > :37:07.mentioned those patients who are continuing to be treated in

:37:08. > :37:11.hospital, many of them still in a critical condition. We can talk to

:37:12. > :37:17.Tulip Mazumdar, who is outside St Mary's Hospital, what is the latest

:37:18. > :37:22.from there? Well, we have been given an update from NHS England, who have

:37:23. > :37:28.been letting us note the situation of the patients in the five London

:37:29. > :37:32.hospitals that are still caring for patients from this dreadful buyer.

:37:33. > :37:39.37 patients are still receiving hospital treatment. -- this dreadful

:37:40. > :37:43.fire. 17 are still in critical care. I can give you a breakdown here

:37:44. > :37:48.there are the most number of patients being treated, 11, three of

:37:49. > :37:53.which are in critical care. King's College Hospital, not far from here,

:37:54. > :37:57.ten patients, six of them in critical care. Chelsea and

:37:58. > :38:01.Westminster is treating nine patients, seven of them are in

:38:02. > :38:06.critical care. The Royal Free was looking after six patients, one of

:38:07. > :38:10.them is in critical care. And guys and Saint Thomas's is looking after

:38:11. > :38:16.one patient, and that patient is not in critical care. So clearly,

:38:17. > :38:20.doctors and nurses, all the medics here and in those other four

:38:21. > :38:24.hospitals, working very hard from overnight on Tuesday into Wednesday,

:38:25. > :38:29.and all day yesterday as well as today. This has been a really

:38:30. > :38:36.desperate situation for many people who have been coming and looking for

:38:37. > :38:39.family. There is still a lot of confusion. The doctors here have

:38:40. > :38:45.been treating patients mainly for smoke inhalation, so patients will

:38:46. > :38:51.be getting oxygen, some of them, we understand, in other hospitals, are

:38:52. > :38:57.being put and general anaesthetic so they can be treated as comfortably

:38:58. > :39:02.as possible. But really, at this point, time is ticking now to find

:39:03. > :39:06.more people. Like I said, families have been coming here desperate to

:39:07. > :39:10.find out if their family members are here, desperately searching, but as

:39:11. > :39:16.time goes on, it is becoming less likely that people will be coming in

:39:17. > :39:19.for treatment. And I think you have managed to speak to a couple of

:39:20. > :39:26.people as they have been going into the hospital. Yes, Victoria, it has

:39:27. > :39:30.just been a really harrowing morning, I have to say. I mean, I

:39:31. > :39:34.was here yesterday as well, and we saw families coming in, there was a

:39:35. > :39:40.man just behind me at the entrance, and he was shouting, he was saying,

:39:41. > :39:46.we are not getting any information, I don't know where my loved ones

:39:47. > :39:50.are. Today, similar scenes, but really much more difficult, there

:39:51. > :39:56.was a family that just parked up over there, we saw them leaving the

:39:57. > :40:01.hospital, a woman was wailing, she was so upset. She was being

:40:02. > :40:06.comforted by other family members. We heard her, before we saw her, and

:40:07. > :40:13.her screams were so chilling. We went over, and we ask that they were

:40:14. > :40:16.OK, how they were as a family, whether they had received any

:40:17. > :40:20.information. They were asking us if we had received any information, and

:40:21. > :40:28.they claim to us that they were looking for a mother, the mother's

:40:29. > :40:35.name is Burkit Haftom, they were looking for her and her son,

:40:36. > :40:39.12-year-old Birok Haftom, they were desperately searching for them. They

:40:40. > :40:43.have gone from hospital to hospital, it seems that St Mary's were the

:40:44. > :40:47.last hospital they had been to, and they were told by police, if your

:40:48. > :40:51.family members are not here or at the other hospitals, if you have not

:40:52. > :40:55.heard from them so far, then I am afraid you have to assume the worst,

:40:56. > :41:00.that they were in that building. I saw them when they had me that

:41:01. > :41:05.realisation, that they are not here, this was the last place they could

:41:06. > :41:10.have been, and they are not here. The look on their faces, the other

:41:11. > :41:14.devastation, they were so upset. They didn't know what to do, they

:41:15. > :41:21.said to me, can you help us? Is there anything I could do, I said I

:41:22. > :41:25.would say their names on BBC News, Burkit Haftom is the mother, the

:41:26. > :41:33.12-year-old son is Birok Haftom. You know, everybody would be out looking

:41:34. > :41:38.for them, and family are already, but as time goes on, we are now

:41:39. > :41:41.several hours, you know, overnight, all of yesterday, overnight today,

:41:42. > :41:44.if those family members have not turned up, the police have advised

:41:45. > :41:48.that chances are they are in that building. And coming to that

:41:49. > :41:52.realisation has clearly been extremely difficult for them, and

:41:53. > :41:55.they are being that by their family. They drove away just without

:41:56. > :41:59.knowledge that they didn't actually know where they were going what they

:42:00. > :42:10.were going to do. I also managed to a lady, also a friend of that

:42:11. > :42:15.family, she was here seeing her friend Helen and their 12-year-old

:42:16. > :42:20.daughter, who is in intensive care. She was said to be extremely unwell,

:42:21. > :42:33.and I spoke to a friend of her mother's earlier, her name is Chesmi

:42:34. > :42:37.Rodrigo. She is in I -- ICU, she doesn't know not. We have just seen

:42:38. > :42:43.her extended family that you have gone to see, just utterly

:42:44. > :42:49.distraught. How are you? How is the community? I don't know, really, I

:42:50. > :42:55.don't know what to say, you know, I am really stressed, really

:42:56. > :43:01.disappointed, I couldn't believe what happened to them. I saw them

:43:02. > :43:13.yesterday, so I couldn't believe, it was like a dream, you know? So I

:43:14. > :43:17.really can't believe these things. We have all seen the pictures, for

:43:18. > :43:24.you, this is so close to home, how were you last night? Were you able

:43:25. > :43:30.to sleep? No, I couldn't sleep, actually, I have two children, so I

:43:31. > :43:34.couldn't sleep, I was crying at the same time, one o'clock, so I was

:43:35. > :43:42.crying, screaming, in my house, you know? Even my children, then we came

:43:43. > :43:49.around at three o'clock new building, so we found Helen over

:43:50. > :43:52.there around four o'clock. That is very, very upsetting. I have just

:43:53. > :43:59.been looking at my timeline on Twitter, a number of you are

:44:00. > :44:03.unpressed by the fact that he may, the Prime Minister, is here in a

:44:04. > :44:08.private capacity. That simply means that cameras are not allowed there.

:44:09. > :44:14.We are told that she has met residents and firefighters. She left

:44:15. > :44:17.at about 10:20, having arrived just before ten o'clock. Caroline says,

:44:18. > :44:24.the Prime Minister makes a private visit, what a joke, total lack of

:44:25. > :44:29.respect for those involved. Another, this is from Nusat, disgusting that

:44:30. > :44:35.the Prime Minister is visiting in private, what is the point? A number

:44:36. > :44:41.of you would like to praise the firefighters, you have messaged me

:44:42. > :44:46.on Twitter to say what they have done is absolutely astonishing.

:44:47. > :44:50.Thank you for those, you can use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE if you want to

:44:51. > :44:58.get in touch. I'm going to introduce you to a QC, Joe, nice to talk to

:44:59. > :45:02.you, tell us why you are here. A lot of people are going to have

:45:03. > :45:05.complicated problems to sort out, problems today, where are people

:45:06. > :45:11.going to live, how are people going to survive, what about your

:45:12. > :45:14.employment, your job? What is your employer going to say? What about

:45:15. > :45:19.people who haven't got insurance? What about that period of time

:45:20. > :45:24.before your insurers pay out? Those are all really complicated problems,

:45:25. > :45:27.and there is something that lawyers - and stressful - and there is

:45:28. > :45:31.something that lawyers can do to help with those problems. And then

:45:32. > :45:36.tomorrow, you know, people are going to start to wonder about how they

:45:37. > :45:40.put their lives back together, and there is also something, a small

:45:41. > :45:45.thing, that lawyers can do to help that process. Making sure that legal

:45:46. > :45:47.accountability, moral accountability rests where it should.

:45:48. > :45:58.I'm going to Paul's you there, you are not an ambulance chaser... ? Me,

:45:59. > :46:02.hundreds of other lawyers, at the North Kensington law centre, housing

:46:03. > :46:18.lawyers, employment lawyers, personal injury lawyers, people want

:46:19. > :46:22.to help. -- I'm going to pause you there. There is a role for the law,

:46:23. > :46:25.people will not be able to find accountability without the help of

:46:26. > :46:31.lawyers, many will want to do it for free because this... They recognise

:46:32. > :46:36.this is... It is very difficult to be here and not feel very upset

:46:37. > :46:42.about it all. If people would like your help, how should they get in

:46:43. > :46:45.touch with you, you are from the Good Law Project and the North

:46:46. > :46:52.Kensington law centre. The first thing to be done, triage, people

:46:53. > :46:58.need to have their particular problems broken down for them.

:46:59. > :47:02.Housing problem, employment problem, insurance issue, so far as I can see

:47:03. > :47:09.at the moment, people doing that job best of all are the North Kensington

:47:10. > :47:15.law centre, and I have tweeted out their contact details. After this, I

:47:16. > :47:18.am going to go there and see what help they need from lawyers. Then I

:47:19. > :47:23.will get in touch with all the lawyers I speak with and tell them

:47:24. > :47:27.that if you want to be able to help, that is the best way. In the longer

:47:28. > :47:32.term, the problems about accountability, the lessons to be

:47:33. > :47:37.learned, the law has some part to play, but you have to hope that the

:47:38. > :47:41.government recognises the problem, and has a public enquiry. So that

:47:42. > :47:56.this never happens again. Thank you very much for joining us.

:47:57. > :48:01.This place is much busier than when we first came on error, I am going

:48:02. > :48:07.to take a look around, I have not done that for a while, inside the

:48:08. > :48:14.basketball court, right next to the Westway Sports Centre, there were

:48:15. > :48:19.hundreds of bags and now dozens of volunteers, tidying through those

:48:20. > :48:27.donations. Trying to get them in some sort of order. And here,

:48:28. > :48:34.volunteers arriving to either sign in or, if they have enough

:48:35. > :48:38.volunteers, to leave a name and number to be contacted, tonight,

:48:39. > :48:41.tomorrow, the weekend, that is where they are leaving contact details,

:48:42. > :48:47.people saying, I want to help, I want to do something, call on me at

:48:48. > :48:54.any point. Let me introduce you to some or residence. Emily, do come

:48:55. > :49:01.in. I'm Victoria, nice to see you. And Amina, I beg your pardon, it is

:49:02. > :49:09.my writing! Sorry. I'm Victoria, nice to meet you. Do come in. Lovely

:49:10. > :49:16.to meet you. I have a microphone, just one between us. How are you

:49:17. > :49:23.today? Upset. Yeah, upset. Not well, angry, angry. Very angry. Yeah, very

:49:24. > :49:25.angry. What's happened is disgusting. It could have been

:49:26. > :49:31.prevented, it could have been prevented. You know, you have got

:49:32. > :49:37.all them innocent people that have died, that are seriously ill in

:49:38. > :49:41.hospital, and it is a joke, it is a joke. Like I said, a lot more could

:49:42. > :49:47.have been done, a lot more could have been done. What do you think

:49:48. > :49:51.could have been done? The housing association, they could have done a

:49:52. > :49:58.lot more. The management organisation who ran it... Yeah, to

:49:59. > :50:03.be quite honest, TMO, they do not care about their tenants whatsoever.

:50:04. > :50:11.I know people that are in TMO, such as my daughter, and I know this is

:50:12. > :50:15.irrelevant to what has happened, but... I'm going to Paul's you, I

:50:16. > :50:22.want to talk about the people of Grenfell Tower, if I may. My

:50:23. > :50:31.anger... You can ask him, and then come back. We have been let down by

:50:32. > :50:34.the council. The tenant management organisation, where are they?

:50:35. > :50:39.Everyone is pulling together, it is the community, I have not seen

:50:40. > :50:45.anyone! I have not seen any support... I live directly opposite.

:50:46. > :50:52.Saw I it... I smell the fire, 12:30am, I came out, and I can

:50:53. > :50:59.literally see people in the windows, banging, children screaming. I have

:51:00. > :51:04.heard grown men literally on fire, banging at the windows until the

:51:05. > :51:08.windows were full of smoke. Standing there, I cannot do anything. Even

:51:09. > :51:15.until now, I have not seen any kind of support will stop everyone is

:51:16. > :51:18.trying to get a story and understand what is going on, but people feel

:51:19. > :51:25.let down. We don't seem to have that support. We don't seem to get any

:51:26. > :51:33.feedback from the council, where are they? For what it's worth, for what

:51:34. > :51:37.it's worth, I saw the council leader, yesterday morning, first

:51:38. > :51:40.thing, I saw a clip of one of the guys who runs the particular

:51:41. > :51:48.management organisation. I saw a clip of him on the news. If he came

:51:49. > :51:56.here, what would you say to him? To be honest, I am a tenant, whenever

:51:57. > :52:00.there is a repair, whenever there is something, it is always

:52:01. > :52:05.cost-cutting, always a delay, it is hogwash, we have heard it all

:52:06. > :52:11.before. Where do you go? They keep people waiting. So many families

:52:12. > :52:15.have not even been told there is missing. I have family there, we

:52:16. > :52:22.don't know where they are, very close friends, my wife has friends

:52:23. > :52:28.there, relatives... I know one family, five kids and the mother are

:52:29. > :52:37.missing. Five children! On the 22nd, 21st floor. Ten and under. My

:52:38. > :52:43.daughter goes to a school down the road, Oxford Garden School... Half

:52:44. > :52:50.the class...! Sermon each order not in, so money children unaccounted

:52:51. > :52:54.for. -- so many children not in. It should be at schools as well. Even

:52:55. > :52:58.the teachers dealing with this, massive impact, for them, for the

:52:59. > :53:05.children... My daughter's best friend, we know, gone. They went in

:53:06. > :53:12.together only a couple of days ago. This is sad and shocking. My anger

:53:13. > :53:21.is totally different, my anger... I was here since the blaze happened,

:53:22. > :53:26.and I was on... On the side of the building, I was told there was only

:53:27. > :53:29.a few police officers, don't get me wrong, I don't have problems with

:53:30. > :53:34.police officers, the only police officers were there, 40 minutes

:53:35. > :53:40.later, came more police officers. Let me get that straight. I don't

:53:41. > :53:45.know about the building, personally I don't know nobody from that block,

:53:46. > :53:50.maybe a friend of a friend, I know my son's friends, they are all dead,

:53:51. > :53:53.I don't have a personal contact. I don't have a problem with the

:53:54. > :53:55.structure of the building, I don't know about that, but when I was

:53:56. > :54:00.there yesterday, and what I have seen, I was there on the bridge, to

:54:01. > :54:05.the building, I told people to jump, to get off, to put the kids throw

:54:06. > :54:10.the kids, wanted to get mattresses... Police were pushing us

:54:11. > :54:13.away, fathers were coming from the prayer, they had to see their

:54:14. > :54:17.children and their wives on the window, hopeless, can do anything.

:54:18. > :54:21.We said, it is burning on the side, just starting, get the people of

:54:22. > :54:27.that side of the building. Police were saying, don't, go away, we are

:54:28. > :54:31.dealing with this. They pushed us from the bridge, all the way down,

:54:32. > :54:35.we ran around to the car wash, we have seen the fire, coming upwards,

:54:36. > :54:44.and then gradually, going on the roof, by then, there was more time

:54:45. > :54:48.that people could get off. Lease offices and parents on the

:54:49. > :54:51.telephone, they have been told stay in your property. -- police

:54:52. > :54:57.officers. They were told to stay in the property. It is dangerous?

:54:58. > :55:01.Sorry, it was not, my iPhone does not lie about the timing. They had

:55:02. > :55:06.time to escape, they were on the windows screaming and shouting, the

:55:07. > :55:10.fire happened from the outside in. It did not happen from the inside

:55:11. > :55:15.out, and the outside in, they have plenty of time. The firemen came two

:55:16. > :55:20.hours later, could not even park their car anyway to get access

:55:21. > :55:25.through, so they came all the way through, but their car there. And

:55:26. > :55:33.then they took the water by the time they did that, for 20 5am, and I had

:55:34. > :55:45.them recorded. Before that, 2am, we saw all the children crying,

:55:46. > :55:51.shouting, screaming, because we were hopeless. Like a piece of paper,

:55:52. > :55:54.when you burn it from one side to the other, that is exactly what we

:55:55. > :55:59.saw happen to them full. One minute they were there, the next minute

:56:00. > :56:05.they were gone. My next-door neighbour works as a fire crews man,

:56:06. > :56:09.she said they have not confirmed that 50 children are dead but more

:56:10. > :56:15.than 50 children are dead. More than 100 bodies are dead. Look at that

:56:16. > :56:20.building, are you telling me 12 people?! The police... In the

:56:21. > :56:28.beginning, I was there with the police officers, they only had one

:56:29. > :56:32.staircase one! Hands shaking, one? I am not related to them, I don't know

:56:33. > :56:36.them, I don't care if they are juries, Muslim, Christian, you see

:56:37. > :56:40.someone burning, the first thing you want to do is to go and grab them.

:56:41. > :56:51.More Muslims are feeling that this is a revenge. I'm telling you how I

:56:52. > :56:54.feel. Revenge for what? London Bridge and stuff like that, they are

:56:55. > :56:58.going to think this is a revenge, I am telling you how people feel.

:56:59. > :57:07.People will not say what they are feeling because they are scared. I

:57:08. > :57:21.don't have any relation. I cannot tell you how I feel. We have a very

:57:22. > :57:38.short amount of time left. Friends missing, that is what I am bringing

:57:39. > :57:48.him in. You have friends missing. How are you? I'm hoping for the

:57:49. > :57:58.best. People searching. Still no trace. So much love and positivity

:57:59. > :58:05.and strength... Being directed to you from around the country right

:58:06. > :58:06.now. Thank you so much. And cute. Thank you for speaking with us.

:58:07. > :58:17.Thank you, we appreciate it. A message from Kerrygold on

:58:18. > :58:21.Facebook, as a high-rise tenant I'm deeply troubled, we do not get

:58:22. > :58:26.listened to when we raise concerns. Also, the block is due to have an

:58:27. > :58:30.upgrade on the outside to make it look appealing, but these flats are

:58:31. > :58:35.tiny and severely overcrowded, not just with residents but with

:58:36. > :58:39.possessions, because there is no storage, it is a fire risk and they

:58:40. > :58:45.don't care. They only want to paper over problems with housing with

:58:46. > :58:50.external makeovers. So many people have needlessly died at Grenfell

:58:51. > :58:57.Tower, it is criminal. Let's bring you this police conference. Due to

:58:58. > :59:00.the nature of the content in the building and

:59:01. > :59:01.some areas that are