26/06/2017

:00:00. > :00:15.Our top story today: Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party,

:00:16. > :00:17.the DUP, say they're close to reaching a deal with

:00:18. > :00:19.the Conservatives to keep Theresa May in power.

:00:20. > :00:28.Also on the programme: Every single tower block that's had its external

:00:29. > :00:35.cladding tested so far has failed fire safety tests.

:00:36. > :00:40.The key priority for us has got to be to keep people safe and that is

:00:41. > :00:43.why we are making sure this process works as quickly as possible. That

:00:44. > :00:46.was the housing minister. Labour's Shadow Chancellor John

:00:47. > :00:49.McDonnell says victims of the Grenfell Tower fire

:00:50. > :00:51.were murdered by political Also on the programme: Two months

:00:52. > :00:57.after we revealed 800 women were suing the NHS for debilitating

:00:58. > :01:00.pain caused by vaginal mesh implants, surgeons tell us that NHS

:01:01. > :01:04.England is using mesh to repair hernias which also leaves many

:01:05. > :01:16.patients in chronic pain. It is as if I have been stabbed with

:01:17. > :01:22.something hot. I don't want to eat. I don't want to venture out too far.

:01:23. > :01:24.It started out being agony, absolutely fire burning agony.

:01:25. > :01:27.We'll bring you that exclusive story in about 15 minutes.

:01:28. > :01:33.A blue shark terrified holiday makers when it appeared in shallow

:01:34. > :01:36.waters off the coast of Majorca surrounded by swimmers.

:01:37. > :02:00.We'll hear from some of those in the water at the time.

:02:01. > :02:07.Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning.

:02:08. > :02:11.If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:02:12. > :02:13.Our top story today: The Democratic Unionist leader,

:02:14. > :02:15.Arlene Foster, has said she believes her party

:02:16. > :02:17.is close to securing a deal with Downing Street which would see

:02:18. > :02:22.the DUP agree to support the minority Conservative government.

:02:23. > :02:25.She's due to hold talks with Theresa May in London this morning.

:02:26. > :02:29.Our political correspondent Iain Watson is in Westminster.

:02:30. > :02:35.What do we know? We know that the mood music is very soothing for

:02:36. > :02:39.Theresa May this morning. Arlene Foster has been writing in the

:02:40. > :02:44.Belfast Telegraph, mentioning how influential her party is. Ten MPs

:02:45. > :02:48.from Northern Ireland. She is saying that she can reach a deal that will

:02:49. > :02:52.work for both sides of the community and she is close to concluding an

:02:53. > :02:57.appropriate arrangement, as she calls it, with Theresa May. All of

:02:58. > :03:00.that tends to suggest that we might get that deal signed this morning.

:03:01. > :03:03.We are expecting about an hour of talks with the Prime Minister in

:03:04. > :03:08.Downing Street. This is crucial for Theresa May for a very simple

:03:09. > :03:10.reason. She lost her overall majority, but also here in

:03:11. > :03:23.Westminster on Wednesday there will be a vote on the Queen's Speech, the

:03:24. > :03:26.legislative programme for the next two years. She will want the deal

:03:27. > :03:28.sealed with the DUP before that to make sure it goes through. They are

:03:29. > :03:31.likely to back the Budget as well. But this will be limited deal,

:03:32. > :03:33.confidence and supply deal. A lot of the individual votes on individual

:03:34. > :03:39.pieces of legislation will have to be negotiated with the DUP line by

:03:40. > :03:42.line. It will get Theresa May out of a big hole but she will still be

:03:43. > :03:46.scrabbling around to try to get majority support over the next few

:03:47. > :03:50.years. The other issue is how much it will cost the government. Some of

:03:51. > :03:54.the demands from the DUP our investment in public services in

:03:55. > :03:58.Northern Ireland and also for a lower level of corporation tax. If

:03:59. > :04:03.they get that, it could open up demand from other parts of the UK,

:04:04. > :04:06.the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly, for similar

:04:07. > :04:09.treatment. Will we get to know how much it will cost the electorate? I

:04:10. > :04:13.think we will find out in due course. It will not be there in

:04:14. > :04:17.black and white. What both Arlene Foster and Theresa May have said is

:04:18. > :04:21.that this deal will be transparent and it will be published. It will be

:04:22. > :04:25.down to us to work out what the cost of the commitments are likely to be.

:04:26. > :04:28.The government have also got to make it clear whether the money that goes

:04:29. > :04:35.to Northern Ireland, however much it is in the end, and there have been

:04:36. > :04:38.various estimates ranging from ?750 million up to ?2 billion, is whether

:04:39. > :04:42.there will be the existing formula used to distribute that money,

:04:43. > :04:46.meaning Scotland and Wales would gain, but in a government even more,

:04:47. > :04:49.and if that is not the case we are probably going to see pressure on

:04:50. > :04:53.Theresa May's government and opposition leaders will accuse her

:04:54. > :04:56.of trying to buy support at a difficult time. She will probably

:04:57. > :05:02.feel that she has very little choice. If she wants two years of

:05:03. > :05:05.legislation and Brexit to go through in Parliament. Thank you.

:05:06. > :05:08.Joanna Gosling is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:05:09. > :05:13.Every single tower block which has had its cladding tested

:05:14. > :05:27.since the Grenfell disaster has failed fire safety inspections.

:05:28. > :05:30.60 high rises in 25 areas of England have been examined so far.

:05:31. > :05:32.Local councils are being urged to send samples in more

:05:33. > :05:43.The number of buildings that have now failed fire safety checks

:05:44. > :05:45.following the Grenfell Tower disaster stands at 60 in England

:05:46. > :05:52.Of those examined so far, every single sample has failed.

:05:53. > :06:01.It was concerns over external cladding combined with issues

:06:02. > :06:04.surrounding fire doors, gas pipes and insulation

:06:05. > :06:06.which triggered the mass evacuation of four tower blocks in Camden.

:06:07. > :06:09.Where we have residents, we are making sure we continue

:06:10. > :06:15.Just keep having the conversation again and again, keeping people

:06:16. > :06:18.awake, making sure there are people on the block.

:06:19. > :06:22.The Fire Service says it is not safe to stay and they need to go.

:06:23. > :06:24.And in Scotland Holyrood will carry out its own

:06:25. > :06:27.investigation into the safety of high-rise tower blocks.

:06:28. > :06:31.It is thought up to 600 buildings in total are to be tested in England

:06:32. > :06:32.with councils being told to prioritise the ones

:06:33. > :06:39.But just how long this process will take is still not clear.

:06:40. > :06:42.Theresa May is due to chair a meeting of the Grenfell Tower

:06:43. > :06:45.Recovery Task Force later today where she will be updated

:06:46. > :06:50.on the recovery effort that could take many weeks if not months.

:06:51. > :06:53.More inquests are also expected to be opened and adjourned this

:06:54. > :06:54.afternoon into the deaths of the victims.

:06:55. > :07:03.Theresa May will set out more details today of how the government

:07:04. > :07:05.plans to treat more than 3 million EU citizens living in

:07:06. > :07:13.Last week, the Prime Minister outlined proposals to offer EU

:07:14. > :07:15.nationals settled status, which would give those who have

:07:16. > :07:19.spent five years in the UK equal rights on healthcare,

:07:20. > :07:21.education and benefits, but only if British people living

:07:22. > :07:27.in the European Union were given similar entitlements.

:07:28. > :07:30.Six police officers were injured last night during a protest in East

:07:31. > :07:33.London about the death of a man last week, six days after he'd

:07:34. > :07:36.Bricks were thrown and bins set on fire

:07:37. > :07:42.The Independent Police Complaints Commission has said

:07:43. > :07:44.a post-mortem examination on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed

:07:45. > :07:47.that, contrary to some claims, he had no spinal injuries caused

:07:48. > :07:53.Surgeons have told this programme that NHS England

:07:54. > :07:57.hernias which leaves many patients in chronic pain.

:07:58. > :08:00.NHS England said mesh implants had been successfully used to treat

:08:01. > :08:05.The material is its recommended method for treating the condition.

:08:06. > :08:08.It is used on tens of thousands of patients every year.

:08:09. > :08:12.The use of mesh involves pushing bulging tissue back into the abdomen

:08:13. > :08:15.and covering it with the material, and can be delivered via open

:08:16. > :08:19.The doctors' union, the British Medical Association,

:08:20. > :08:23.will claim today that years of underinvestment have left

:08:24. > :08:25.the NHS failing too many people, too often.

:08:26. > :08:28.The head of the BMA, Mark Porter, will accuse ministers of failing

:08:29. > :08:31.to spend as much on the health service as other European

:08:32. > :08:37.The UK's economic growth will remain anaemic

:08:38. > :08:40.until the end of the decade, according to the British

:08:41. > :08:47.The group of business leaders says it doesn't expect growth to be more

:08:48. > :08:49.than 1.5% by 2020 and that inflation may end up

:08:50. > :08:52.Our business correspondent Joe Lynam reports.

:08:53. > :08:56.Despite some predictions, Britain's economy grew robustly

:08:57. > :09:03.immediately after the referendum last year, but

:09:04. > :09:06.it has slowed down a lot this year, and now it is the weakest in Europe.

:09:07. > :09:09.The British Chambers of Commerce, representing thousands of small and

:09:10. > :09:11.medium-sized companies, says their GDP will remain anaemic

:09:12. > :09:21.It says growth this year will be 1.5% but dip to 1.3% next year

:09:22. > :09:26.before rising slightly back to 1.5% in 2019.

:09:27. > :09:29.It expects inflation to peak at 3.4% this year, and hold back

:09:30. > :09:33.But it thinks growth in exports and the

:09:34. > :09:40.construction sector will be higher this year than previously thought.

:09:41. > :09:43.The biggest changes to our forecast revolve around the economy, we think

:09:44. > :09:46.growth will remain flat over the next three years and around

:09:47. > :09:50.inflation, which is going to spike higher before we see some relief.

:09:51. > :09:53.Exports will do well this year, but less well in years to come.

:09:54. > :09:56.So we do face a situation where our growth

:09:57. > :09:58.is pretty anaemic, not as good as it could be,

:09:59. > :10:00.and certainly is not as

:10:01. > :10:04.good as other countries around the world.

:10:05. > :10:08.The BCC has urged the government to spend more on infrastructure,

:10:09. > :10:32.especially broadband and mobile phone connectivity, and described

:10:33. > :10:35.the British road network is heavilyas heavily congested.

:10:36. > :10:38.Seven people have been hospitalised after taking

:10:39. > :10:39.a "particularly potent" form of the drug, MDMA.

:10:40. > :10:42.Police said the drugs are known locally as "magic" or "pink

:10:43. > :10:45.A 26-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of supplying

:10:46. > :10:48.Class A drugs and remains in custody for questioning.

:10:49. > :10:51.A beach in Majorca was closed yesterday after a blue shark sent

:10:52. > :10:55.The shark - thought to be about eight foot long -

:10:56. > :10:56.was spotted near swimmers close to Magaluf.

:10:57. > :10:59.Photos appear to show the shark swimming towards a group of people.

:11:00. > :11:06.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:11:07. > :11:11.Lots of messages about her knee replacements. I have a constant

:11:12. > :11:15.burning pain and I can't have pressure on my stomach, worse than

:11:16. > :11:20.having a Caesarean section. And Pete is 49. He had the operation when he

:11:21. > :11:26.was 34. His problems in that area have affected his bowel severely. He

:11:27. > :11:30.is still having extensive tests next goes back to see the bowel surgeon

:11:31. > :11:33.in the middle of July. Our exclusive film on the way that measures being

:11:34. > :11:43.used to repair hernias is on in the next few minutes. Please get in

:11:44. > :11:48.touch, especially if you have had and her -- have had a hernia

:11:49. > :11:52.operation using mesh. Please get in touch. Now the sport. A very public

:11:53. > :12:01.falling out between two Formula One world champions.

:12:02. > :12:05.It was the day the 2017 Formula One season turned nasty.

:12:06. > :12:09.Lewis Hamilton describing his rival for the title, Sebastian Vettel,

:12:10. > :12:11.a disgrace after they collided at the Azerbaijan Grand

:12:12. > :12:16.Red Bull's Daniel Ricciardo won in Baku

:12:17. > :12:24.but that was far from the post-race talking point.

:12:25. > :12:28.It was the acrimony between Hamilton and Vettel,

:12:29. > :12:29.It was the acrimony the result of a coming

:12:30. > :12:34.Blame was attached to Ferrari driver Vettel, who was given a 10-second

:12:35. > :12:37.But Hamilton was later forced into an unscheduled pit-stop,

:12:38. > :12:43.ending his hopes of finishing ahead of Vettel who extended his

:12:44. > :12:50.lead in the drivers' championship to 14 points.

:12:51. > :12:53.Victoria, still plenty of work for Hamilton to do

:12:54. > :13:02.And what about the two drivers? Sebastian Vettel was found guilty of

:13:03. > :13:06.dangerous driving but he thought Lewis Hamilton was deliberately

:13:07. > :13:09.slowing down or brake testing him. Lewis Hamilton denied that and was

:13:10. > :13:14.ready to pursue the matter further with his main challenger for the

:13:15. > :13:19.title. Well, if he wants to prove that he is a man, we should do it

:13:20. > :13:24.out of the car, face to face. Driving dangerously in anyway can

:13:25. > :13:27.put drivers at risk. Lots of people were going slow, going fast and it

:13:28. > :13:30.could have been much worse. Imagine all the young kids watching Formula

:13:31. > :13:39.One today and see that kind of behaviour from a world champion, you

:13:40. > :13:41.know? Not the best examples set by either driver after that incident

:13:42. > :13:46.but I would imagine that the intensifying of the rivalry between

:13:47. > :13:51.the two protagonists will do Formula One no harm. And much happier scenes

:13:52. > :13:55.from the world of tennis? Yes, away from squabbling racing car drivers,

:13:56. > :14:02.story that epitomises the feel-good factor that sport can so often

:14:03. > :14:07.provide. You may remember that Petra Kvitova was stabbed in the hand by

:14:08. > :14:11.an intruder at her home. Just six months later, and in just a second

:14:12. > :14:16.tournament since what looked to be a career ending injury, she capped a

:14:17. > :14:21.remarkable comeback by winning in Birmingham. Patrick Kvitova, as you

:14:22. > :14:26.can understand, was absolutely thrilled by the success will stop

:14:27. > :14:30.she described her victory over Ashley Bhatia something very

:14:31. > :14:35.special, like a dream or fairy tale. She might be a good bet for

:14:36. > :14:41.Wimbledon now. I will be back with more at 9:30am including verbal

:14:42. > :14:46.jousting between the coaches of the Lions and the All Blacks. Thank you.

:14:47. > :14:49.Two months ago this programme exposed the scandal surrounding

:14:50. > :14:52.We revealed that hundreds of women who have experienced severe

:14:53. > :14:56.discomfort since undergoing the surgery including

:14:57. > :14:59.inability to walk unaided, work or have sex, are currently

:15:00. > :15:03.After our report aired, many of you got in touch to say

:15:04. > :15:07.similar surgical synthetic mesh is also causing you chronic pain,

:15:08. > :15:10.but this time after it was used to treat hernias.

:15:11. > :15:14.Surgeons have told us NHS England is using mesh too often to treat

:15:15. > :15:21.hernias and want other techniques to be considered, but NHS England

:15:22. > :15:24.say it is its recommended method and the most widely used technique.

:15:25. > :15:58.Our reporter Anna Collinson has this exclusive investigation.

:15:59. > :15:59.I really just want this material out of my

:16:00. > :16:03.body now, and I will fight to until end to make that happen.

:16:04. > :16:06.Doctors say one in ten of us will develop a hernia.

:16:07. > :16:09.It doesn't matter how old you are, what sex you are, or how

:16:10. > :16:12.You can be a rapper, like Professor Green.

:16:13. > :16:19.When a patient comes to see me and says, "I

:16:20. > :16:23.think I've got a hernia," what they're describing

:16:24. > :16:28.is a bulge, classically in the groin.

:16:29. > :16:32.And what that bulge is is a protrusion or pushing out of

:16:33. > :16:37.The best way to actually fix the hernia is surgery.

:16:38. > :16:39.Nowadays what we use is a material which is

:16:40. > :16:47.synthetic, called Prolene, in the form of a mesh.

:16:48. > :16:50.NHS England says a mesh repair is its recommended

:16:51. > :16:52.method when treating a hernia, and it's the most

:16:53. > :16:59.It can be done in two ways - open surgery, where

:17:00. > :17:02.the surgeon makes one cut into the groin, or keyhole

:17:03. > :17:05.surgery, where a camera and surgical instruments are inserted through

:17:06. > :17:08.several holes close to the belly button.

:17:09. > :17:10.The surgeon then pushes any bulging tissue back into the abdomen

:17:11. > :17:19.As you can see, it's very pliable, it's very easy to lie flat

:17:20. > :17:25.Also you can see it's very, very thin, and quite soft.

:17:26. > :17:26.Collagen, tissue and sometimes even nerves

:17:27. > :17:36.The once-weak spot strengthens as the body grows into it,

:17:37. > :17:42.but it also makes the mesh difficult and sometimes dangerous to remove.

:17:43. > :17:45.The NHS carried out more than 60,000 groin hernia repairs in England

:17:46. > :17:52.What happens if something goes wrong?

:17:53. > :17:56.Helen Ablett had a groin hernia repair in 1998.

:17:57. > :17:59.She was told if she ignored it it could get bigger,

:18:00. > :18:01.and she also risked having a strangulated hernia,

:18:02. > :18:07.A few years ago, Helen started feeling pain and has spent most

:18:08. > :18:14.It wasn't until she saw our recent reports on the scandal surrounding

:18:15. > :18:16.vaginal mesh implants that something clicked.

:18:17. > :18:20.I went to see my GP after I had my hysterectomy and I said that

:18:21. > :18:25.He looked at me square in the face and said, "Claire,

:18:26. > :18:28.we've had you out on an operating table, there is nothing

:18:29. > :18:34.And I phoned my husband and I said...

:18:35. > :18:41."I can't live any more, I can't go through all this."

:18:42. > :18:43.I actually do think, I remember leaving the doctors,

:18:44. > :18:52.The same material, the same lack of acceptance

:18:53. > :18:55.Helen's had colonoscopies and countless scans,

:18:56. > :19:00.Her GP's called her pain a conundrum, but she and her husband

:19:01. > :19:09.It feels like something is either moving or loose

:19:10. > :19:13.inside me and is pulling, when I stand and when I walk,

:19:14. > :19:17.is pulling on it, and whether it's moved or it's attached itself,

:19:18. > :19:20.I can feel, it feels like a foreign body inside me.

:19:21. > :19:23.It was just right in my groin, right down the back of my thigh

:19:24. > :19:30.Helen sent us an e-mail telling us her story,

:19:31. > :19:36.We've heard from lots of people who've had hernia mesh operations

:19:37. > :19:42.They came from across the UK, varied in age and gender,

:19:43. > :19:50.They say they were never warned about the risks of chronic pain.

:19:51. > :19:53.They claim they've been in pain for years and some

:19:54. > :19:57.They say they've had many scans and tests,

:19:58. > :20:02.They also claim GPs mainly only offer pain relief,

:20:03. > :20:05.And doctors have apparently repeatedly told them

:20:06. > :20:21.Hernias are extremely common, and so is the hernia mesh technique.

:20:22. > :20:24.Clinical studies suggest around 10% to 15% of groin hernia patients

:20:25. > :20:26.will experience chronic pain as a result of the repair,

:20:27. > :20:33.One major study claims it could be as high as 50%.

:20:34. > :20:36.Supporters, though, say it's a strong repair, infection is rare,

:20:37. > :20:46.and it's quick and easy for surgeons to learn and replicate.

:20:47. > :20:49.It may not be just the mesh that's causing the problem, but the fact

:20:50. > :20:52.that they've had an open surgery and there's a lot of scar tissue

:20:53. > :20:54.around these nerves that have caused the pain.

:20:55. > :20:58.It is true it could be the mesh, I'm in no doubt that that may be

:20:59. > :21:03.Absolutely, we don't know, and I don't think anybody,

:21:04. > :21:09.hand on heart, can say whether it's in fact the mesh or not the mesh.

:21:10. > :21:12.I used to play all sorts of sports, from racquet sports,

:21:13. > :21:17.tennis, squash, badminton, I used to play football,

:21:18. > :21:20.used to do quite a lot of gym work, circuits.

:21:21. > :21:23.There was a point where I was training for a marathon.

:21:24. > :21:26.It's quite frustrating to be sat here.

:21:27. > :21:31.This is a chair, isn't it, I suppose, for me now.

:21:32. > :21:33.Martin Kinsey had a groin hernia mesh repair in 1999

:21:34. > :21:42.For a long time he was fine, but then he started

:21:43. > :21:45.The 39-year-old says he now feels like he is 90.

:21:46. > :21:47.It is seriously painful, it's as if I've been

:21:48. > :21:59.My worst day is getting up and feeling twice my age and not

:22:00. > :22:02.being able to put my underwear and socks on, and having to spend

:22:03. > :22:12.I've had that many tests throughout the last six years,

:22:13. > :22:14.they've ruled out pretty much everything that this could possibly

:22:15. > :22:18.be, other than pursuing the mesh complications.

:22:19. > :22:21.There is a Canadian hospital which is world famous - well,

:22:22. > :22:30.The Shouldice Hernia Centre says it has nearly a 100% success rate,

:22:31. > :22:33.and one of its surgeons has told this programme they only use mesh

:22:34. > :22:39.Instead, they prefer a different technique.

:22:40. > :22:42.The Shouldice hernia repair uses the abdominal wall, which is split

:22:43. > :22:47.Once the surgeon has placed a bulge of tissue or bowel back

:22:48. > :22:50.inside the patient's body, they will then overlap

:22:51. > :22:53.and secure each layer, like buttoning a coat.

:22:54. > :22:55.Its supporters say it naturally strengthens the abdominal wall,

:22:56. > :22:58.but NHS England says this style of repair has been hard

:22:59. > :23:09.The one thing they all seem to agree on is the Shouldice

:23:10. > :23:17.The problem is, you have to be very skilled to do it.

:23:18. > :23:20.Sue and Peter Jones have been married for nearly four decades.

:23:21. > :23:22.They are part of an ever-shrinking group of surgeons who can do

:23:23. > :23:31.The pair retired last summer, but spent much of their careers removing

:23:32. > :23:36.Time and time again they met people from across the UK who had not been

:23:37. > :23:38.warned about the risk of life-altering and long-lasting pain.

:23:39. > :23:47.Patients that have come to us with chronic pain, said they've got

:23:48. > :23:48.friends at work with the same problem.

:23:49. > :23:52.One guy, as so many do, ended up in a pain clinic and said

:23:53. > :23:55.on his first visit the waiting room at the pain clinic was full

:23:56. > :23:57.of patients exclusively who'd had operations to repair their groin

:23:58. > :24:03.At least half of all patients who have a mesh repair

:24:04. > :24:07.will have a smooth recovery and never have any problems.

:24:08. > :24:11.But in our view the risks of a poor outcome are so bad that I wouldn't

:24:12. > :24:18.The Shouldice technique relies on a surgeon's skill,

:24:19. > :24:20.which companies can't really make money from.

:24:21. > :24:26.They can, however, make money from selling mesh.

:24:27. > :24:29.Peter and Sue are convinced that is why the synthetic material dominates

:24:30. > :24:33.The couple want NHS England to teach more surgeons the mesh-free method

:24:34. > :24:41.The NHS being strapped for cash, that's another indication to do

:24:42. > :24:49.Some surgeons say that the Shouldice technique is too difficult

:24:50. > :24:52.But once you've learned it, it's like riding a bike.

:24:53. > :24:57.Do you think the NHS does too many hernia mesh repairs?

:24:58. > :25:03.If enough people got together and said, "We are suffering in this

:25:04. > :25:06.pain and we were not told about it," that could seriously put a dent

:25:07. > :25:13.on the operation of a mesh repair for groin hernia.

:25:14. > :25:17.The Shouldice technique doesn't hold all the answers, either.

:25:18. > :25:20.For starters, it can only be used on a hernia which is in the groin.

:25:21. > :25:23.Chances are, the mesh that was used for your hernia

:25:24. > :25:38.Some surgeons say it's very light and flexible and durable.

:25:39. > :25:52.Leila Hackett was told she had an umbilical hernia in 2013,

:25:53. > :25:54.six months after she gave birth to her daughter.

:25:55. > :25:57.Surgeons placed a large piece of mesh near her belly

:25:58. > :26:07.I could feel the whole thing, I could feel exactly where it was.

:26:08. > :26:12.It was across there and it just, it started out being agony,

:26:13. > :26:16.Obviously it didn't carry on being like that, but it

:26:17. > :26:25.Leila told her GP about the pain many times, but was told

:26:26. > :26:29.While studies show around one in ten groin hernia patients

:26:30. > :26:33.will experience chronic pain following a repair, surgeons say

:26:34. > :26:36.more research is needed for less common types.

:26:37. > :26:38.There is, though, plenty of anecdotal evidence

:26:39. > :26:46.It was like somebody scratching you from inside all the time.

:26:47. > :26:50.All the time, not being able to get clear of this horrible feeling.

:26:51. > :27:02.Eventually I ended up being ambulanced to A

:27:03. > :27:06.because the pain got so agonising I was just screaming on all fours.

:27:07. > :27:08.Leila's bowl had twisted after the mesh became stuck

:27:09. > :27:15.Surgeons spent four hours picking the material out.

:27:16. > :27:18.And he said, "Well, it turns out you didn't have a hernia,

:27:19. > :27:21.you just had this separation of muscles, so we haven't had

:27:22. > :27:26.And I can tell you now, I knew there wasn't a mesh

:27:27. > :27:28.before they told me that, because I could just tell,

:27:29. > :27:34.Many surgeons would argue that there's no scientific evidence

:27:35. > :27:42.They're not going to achieve any scientific evidence about this

:27:43. > :27:45.unless they take those of us who've had these operations seriously,

:27:46. > :27:50.Because at the moment, they're not, they're pooh-poohing people,

:27:51. > :27:53.and of course there's no evidence if you don't look for it!

:27:54. > :27:56.Neither Leila, Helen or Martin have a record of which company

:27:57. > :28:02.Martin has even paid to view his medical records

:28:03. > :28:10.I've spoken to some surgeons who've told me that the hernia industry

:28:11. > :28:12.is dominated by companies who produce mesh, and the reason

:28:13. > :28:18.What do you think about that? Is that true?

:28:19. > :28:22.Well, as a surgeon, I don't get involved in financial gain

:28:23. > :28:30.My purpose is to do the best thing for every patient.

:28:31. > :28:35.Now, of course, the companies that produce meshes are businesses,

:28:36. > :28:40.and they're in the business of trying to make money.

:28:41. > :28:44.However, a lot of these companies that produce meshes are competing

:28:45. > :28:48.with each other to try and produce meshes that are better and better,

:28:49. > :28:52.because they know that we have very good principles and we will not use

:28:53. > :28:58.I encourage patients to persist and say, "I'd

:28:59. > :29:01.like to see a specialist, I'd like some treatment,"

:29:02. > :29:05.and treatment is out there, there are specialists who will see

:29:06. > :29:07.these patients, be very considerate, patient,

:29:08. > :29:19.Although at least one in ten groin hernia mesh repair patients

:29:20. > :29:24.will experience chronic pain, NHS England have told this programme

:29:25. > :29:27.the technique has been undertaken extensively and successfully

:29:28. > :29:29.for several decades and no significant level

:29:30. > :29:37.The Royal College of Surgeons says while any poor outcomes

:29:38. > :29:40.are regrettable, mesh implants are the most effective way

:29:41. > :29:45.In a statement they say the risk of infection is rare,

:29:46. > :29:51.but they do not reference the risk of chronic pain.

:29:52. > :29:54.For years, Martin has been suffering.

:29:55. > :29:57.He was unaware there were people across the country who have similar

:29:58. > :30:00.stories to him, and that one even lived nearby.

:30:01. > :30:10.I've had an operation really I didn't need, and, you know,

:30:11. > :30:24.Everything, pretty much by the sounds of things, that you've had.

:30:25. > :30:27.I've had an ultrasound as well, they've tested my kidneys, my liver.

:30:28. > :30:28.I've been tested for Crohn's, lupus, coeliac...

:30:29. > :30:33.I naively assumed, when I first realised what it was,

:30:34. > :30:38.Yes, it's several operations, apparently.

:30:39. > :30:42.Supporters of mesh say it's improving all the time

:30:43. > :30:44.and the synthetic material is here to stay.

:30:45. > :30:49.But some surgeons claim hernias need to be taken more seriously.

:30:50. > :30:52.They want a mesh-free repair to be widely available on the NHS,

:30:53. > :30:56.and they want dedicated teams of surgeons to do the operations

:30:57. > :31:01.In America, there are currently thousands of hernia mesh

:31:02. > :31:07.It's thought it won't be long before something similar happens here.

:31:08. > :31:10.But, for Helen, just knowing she's no longer

:31:11. > :31:16.on her own is enough comfort for now.

:31:17. > :31:22.Yes, meeting you has been a complete revelation.

:31:23. > :31:24.It's helped confirm everything that I knew

:31:25. > :31:31.I will fight tooth-and-nail to get what I'm entitled to.

:31:32. > :31:56.I can't remove it, they've got to take it out.

:31:57. > :32:13.He says that the mesh itself is infected and they will have to

:32:14. > :32:17.remove it. It has been a nightmare. Jan said she had a hernia repair

:32:18. > :32:22.semis ago and has had serious bowel problems but you never connected the

:32:23. > :32:26.two until today. And Alex has said that he has been suffering chronic

:32:27. > :32:30.pain for seven years since so-called hernia repair and the surgeons are

:32:31. > :32:35.just passing him to each other. Steve says: I had mesh put in for a

:32:36. > :32:38.double hernia in October and I have had nothing but pain in my

:32:39. > :32:43.right-sided since. I am still going to hospital now. Bill and a few

:32:44. > :32:50.others have said they had hernia mesh repair years ago and have touch

:32:51. > :32:52.wood not had any problems. After ten o'clock we will hear from surgeons

:32:53. > :32:56.who support the use of mesh. If you want to watch our original

:32:57. > :32:59.film on vaginal mesh you can find it on our programme page:

:33:00. > :33:08.bbc.co.uk/victoria. We talk to one resident who has been

:33:09. > :33:12.ordered by her counsel to leave her flat in north London after it failed

:33:13. > :33:18.fire safety tests, but she is refusing to do so. And the man who

:33:19. > :33:21.was sexually assaulted as a 14-year-old boy by two former BBC

:33:22. > :33:29.Radio London tells us he has spoken out to try and encourage other

:33:30. > :33:34.victims to come forward. -- two former BBC radio presenters. Now a

:33:35. > :33:39.new summary. The Democratic Unionist leader,

:33:40. > :33:41.Arlene Foster, has said she believes her party

:33:42. > :33:44.is close to securing a deal with Downing Street,

:33:45. > :33:46.which would see the DUP agree to support the minority

:33:47. > :33:47.Conservative government. She's due to hold talks with

:33:48. > :33:50.Theresa May in London this morning. Theresa May is seeking the backing

:33:51. > :33:53.of the DUP's ten MPs after losing her majority

:33:54. > :33:55.in the general election. Every one of the 60 tower blocks

:33:56. > :33:58.which have had their cladding tested since the Grenfell disaster has

:33:59. > :34:01.failed fire safety inspections. There are still more than 500 other

:34:02. > :34:03.buildings nationwide Meanwhile, Labour's John McDonnell

:34:04. > :34:12.has told an audience at a Glastonbury Festival event that

:34:13. > :34:14.victims of the Grenfell Tower fire were murdered by

:34:15. > :34:16.political decisions, blaming what he called the decision

:34:17. > :34:18.to view housing as only Six police officers were injured

:34:19. > :34:30.last night during a protest in East London about the death of a man last

:34:31. > :34:33.week, six days after he'd Bricks were thrown

:34:34. > :34:36.and bins set on fire The Independent Police

:34:37. > :34:39.Complaints Commission has said a post-mortem examination

:34:40. > :34:41.on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed that, contrary to some claims,

:34:42. > :34:44.he had no spinal injuries caused Surgeons have told this

:34:45. > :34:47.programme that NHS England hernias which leaves many patients

:34:48. > :34:51.in chronic pain. NHS England said mesh implants had

:34:52. > :34:54.been successfully used to treat The material is its recommended

:34:55. > :34:59.method for treating the condition. It is used on tens of thousands

:35:00. > :35:02.of patients every year. The use of mesh involves pushing

:35:03. > :35:06.bulging tissue back into the abdomen and covering it with the material,

:35:07. > :35:19.and can be delivered via open That is a summary of the latest

:35:20. > :35:25.news. More at ten o'clock. Now the sport.

:35:26. > :35:27.Lewis Hamilton has described his rival for the Formula One title,

:35:28. > :35:30.Sebastian Vettel, as a disgrace after a collision between them

:35:31. > :35:36.Vettel was punished for the incident but still finished ahead

:35:37. > :35:40.of Hamilton, who he thought was to blame, and Vettel is 14 points clear

:35:41. > :35:46.Acrimony too in New Zealand between Warren Gatland,

:35:47. > :35:48.the Lions coach, and his opposite number

:35:49. > :35:49.with the All Blacks, Steve Hansen.

:35:50. > :35:57.Gatland claimed the home side deliberately targeted scrum-half

:35:58. > :35:59.Conor Murray during the 1st test defeat.

:36:00. > :36:09.Petra Kvitova looks to be in with a chance

:36:10. > :36:13.title, despite suffering a career threatening injury six months ago.

:36:14. > :36:15.She won just her seocnd tournament back -

:36:16. > :36:21.Kvitova was hurt in a knife attack by an intruder

:36:22. > :36:25.England have won their T20 series against South Africa.

:36:26. > :36:28.It was winner takes all in Cardiff with England victorious by 19 runs

:36:29. > :36:32.Dawid Malan was the hero on debut, scoring 78.

:36:33. > :36:38.I have more on that in half an hour. Thank you.

:36:39. > :36:40.Every single tower block that has been tested

:36:41. > :36:43.since the fire at Grenfell Tower has failed fire safety tests.

:36:44. > :36:48.But the total number that need to be tested because they have

:36:49. > :36:52.external cladding is 600 and although the government says

:36:53. > :36:55.100 could be tested every day, nearly two weeks after the fire

:36:56. > :37:05.Testing a cladding system to see how it would perform in a real fire.

:37:06. > :37:08.A scaled-down version of this test is

:37:09. > :37:10.now being carried out on hundreds of cladding panels taken

:37:11. > :37:18.The results so far have not been encouraging.

:37:19. > :37:20.Of 60 samples tested, all 60 have failed,

:37:21. > :37:22.although the government says the most suspect panels are likely

:37:23. > :37:26.In total, there are plans to test up to 600

:37:27. > :37:30.buildings in England over the next week.

:37:31. > :37:34.Not all of the high rises affected so far have been named, but

:37:35. > :37:36.we know they include towers in London, Plymouth, Manchester and

:37:37. > :37:40.I am having a pop at you, in a funny kind of way.

:37:41. > :37:48.What do they want me to do with my dog?

:37:49. > :37:51.In Camden in North London, hundreds of

:37:52. > :37:53.residents have been told they have to move out.

:37:54. > :37:55.It is creating chaos and pandemonium.

:37:56. > :37:57.We've all been happy living there for years, there

:37:58. > :38:00.was a fire in the tower block a few years ago,

:38:01. > :38:01.and the building did what

:38:02. > :38:09.The Chalcot estate there was refurbished by the same

:38:10. > :38:11.firm, Rydon, that carried out work on the Grenfell Tower last

:38:12. > :38:17.More test results will come through over the coming days, though

:38:18. > :38:19.questions about why panels the government says were unsafe were

:38:20. > :38:21.wrapped around so many high rises, in some

:38:22. > :38:22.cases for years, without the

:38:23. > :38:28.In Camden alone it's left around 3000 residents without a home

:38:29. > :38:34.after four tower blocks were evacuated by the council on Friday.

:38:35. > :38:36.Some are staying with friends and relatives or in a hotel

:38:37. > :38:38.while others are put up in emergency rescue centres.

:38:39. > :38:52.us not to identify her because she fears making things

:38:53. > :39:01.Also joining us is Labour MP and secretary of

:39:02. > :39:04.on fire safety Jim Fitzpatrick who will hold a debate later today

:39:05. > :39:09.And Luke Stubbs, the deputy leader of Portsmouth Council,

:39:10. > :39:12.His borough has seen 272 flats affected

:39:13. > :39:27.Linda, why aren't you leaving? I think this was a knee jerk reaction

:39:28. > :39:30.by the council. It is way over the top. Suddenly they decide we are not

:39:31. > :39:36.in a safe environment, which is crazy. We had a fire in 2012, after

:39:37. > :39:43.the refurbishments, and the fire was contained. A horde had lived there

:39:44. > :39:51.and the place. A blog with newspapers and it went up like a

:39:52. > :39:56.bomb. -- somebody who awarded being lived there and the place was full

:39:57. > :40:02.of newspapers. I actually am happy because the playground is quiet for

:40:03. > :40:06.once! Are you saying that you are going to stay there come what May?

:40:07. > :40:11.At some point with you move out for a bit while they get rid of the

:40:12. > :40:14.cladding and make it safer? I will have to move at some point because

:40:15. > :40:18.they have taken away the fob keys that they have put signs up on the

:40:19. > :40:22.doors of people who are still in the flats to say that it is occupied and

:40:23. > :40:27.this is how many people are here and so on. At some point I think I will

:40:28. > :40:32.possibly be forced. But at the moment I don't wish to go. It is

:40:33. > :40:37.total disruption of everybody's lives. And a single person like me,

:40:38. > :40:39.they expect me to stay in a large hall with hundreds of people,

:40:40. > :40:44.screaming kids, the lights on all night. There is no way that I will

:40:45. > :40:49.get peace and quiet. It is impossible. I am no expert in

:40:50. > :40:53.dealing with large groups of people moving in and out of properties but

:40:54. > :40:59.what I would say is that the council could have dealt with this much

:41:00. > :41:03.better. They could have done one block at the time and meantime, the

:41:04. > :41:09.other blocks, that are apparently at risk of fire, at the moment they

:41:10. > :41:13.have got fire wardens crawling all over the shop. They won't let us in

:41:14. > :41:17.without a fire warden opening the door. And they have stopped people

:41:18. > :41:21.coming into the block. Though a lot of people have got to go to other

:41:22. > :41:29.accommodation, which is not very good. I fear now that I will not be

:41:30. > :41:32.allowed into my block tonight. The key fob stage work. Have you been

:41:33. > :41:36.told how long it will take to make the block safe? I haven't been told

:41:37. > :41:41.anything. They could provide a fire blanket for each flat. Each flat has

:41:42. > :41:47.got a fire alarm anyway. There are so many questions to be asked. We

:41:48. > :41:51.had booked an interview with the housing minister but he told us this

:41:52. > :41:59.morning that he couldn't do it. Jim Fitzpatrick, chair of the all-party

:42:00. > :42:07.group on fire safety, with a debate later today. What tests is the

:42:08. > :42:14.cladding being subjected to? Do you know? Not exactly. We are hoping

:42:15. > :42:19.that the government might volunteer that information later. The tests

:42:20. > :42:23.are set by the building research Establishment, and they are well

:42:24. > :42:27.documented. Clearly they know what standards the fire resistance should

:42:28. > :42:32.be at the cladding is failing that. Do you take from this that it was

:42:33. > :42:38.unsafe when the cladding was put up or at the time it was put up it was

:42:39. > :42:42.deemed safe? I don't know the answer to that. It is a question that has

:42:43. > :42:46.got to be asked of the contractors, the building managers, the

:42:47. > :42:50.inspectors, the person who signed it off, the council, and ultimately

:42:51. > :42:53.back to government about what specification under the building

:42:54. > :42:56.regulations is laid down as appropriate for these buildings.

:42:57. > :43:04.These are questions which nobody has, as far as I can make out,

:43:05. > :43:08.nobody has got the answer to so far. Luke from Portsmouth Council, 242

:43:09. > :43:13.flats in your council area have been affected but not evacuated. What is

:43:14. > :43:18.going on? We have worked with the fire brigade on this and we have

:43:19. > :43:22.taken advice from them. We have been advised that the building is safe to

:43:23. > :43:25.occupy so it will remain in use. We have already started removing some

:43:26. > :43:30.of the cladding. We have taken it down from the bottom three floors of

:43:31. > :43:32.one building. We are discussing with contract is about what the

:43:33. > :43:38.opportunities are forgetting the rest of it down. To be clear, the

:43:39. > :43:41.cladding is coming down but you have taken the decision that the people

:43:42. > :43:45.who live there should remain in their homes? That is correct. The

:43:46. > :43:50.advice that we have got is that the building is safe. But the cladding

:43:51. > :43:55.is coming down? We are doing it as a precaution. Is the cladding safe or

:43:56. > :43:58.not? The cladding is potentially a problem which is why we are moving

:43:59. > :44:05.it but there are big differences between our buildings and Grenfell.

:44:06. > :44:07.It is noticeable that London police have been saying that the

:44:08. > :44:13.installation might be a bigger problem than the cladding in that

:44:14. > :44:15.instance. Understood. John Fitzpatrick, John McDonnell said

:44:16. > :44:22.yesterday that victims of the Grenfell Tower fire work murdered by

:44:23. > :44:27.political decisions. Do you agree with him? I don't think that is an

:44:28. > :44:32.appropriate comment. We have a public inquiry coming up. Why? We

:44:33. > :44:36.have not got the answers about what exactly happened at Grenfell and

:44:37. > :44:40.what caused it. That is what the public inquiry will be trying to

:44:41. > :44:42.establish. It is very much a matter in the public interest to identify

:44:43. > :44:46.as quickly as possible what went wrong and that is why we need to

:44:47. > :44:53.know when the inquiry will be and who will chair it. And when we will

:44:54. > :44:56.get finding for public safety. They are genuine public safety questions

:44:57. > :44:58.that need to be answered and jumping to conclusions and pointing the

:44:59. > :45:03.finger of blame at this point I think is somewhat premature. But

:45:04. > :45:08.these are very serious issues and we do need answers. Should he withdraw

:45:09. > :45:13.that comment? I am not one to tell John McDonnell what he should and

:45:14. > :45:16.shouldn't say. Listening to the counsellor from Portsmouth, there

:45:17. > :45:19.are many more aspects to these high-rise buildings other than the

:45:20. > :45:24.cladding. As he says, the insulation. The fire specification

:45:25. > :45:29.for the front doors. Compartmentalise Asian. The advice

:45:30. > :45:33.given in terms of simple things like moving cars out of the car park, no

:45:34. > :45:38.barbecues on balconies, making sure the fire alarm systems are working

:45:39. > :45:42.in each flat. Different blocks have different levels of resilience and

:45:43. > :45:46.it is down to the local authority and the local fire brigade to decide

:45:47. > :45:51.whether buildings are safe to operate or not. The vast majority at

:45:52. > :45:55.this point in time seemed to be saying don't panic, things are safe

:45:56. > :45:56.in these buildings, but some of the buildings might be more compromised

:45:57. > :46:04.than others. Linda, what do you think of John

:46:05. > :46:08.McDonnell's comments that people were murdered by political

:46:09. > :46:14.decisions? It's ridiculous to say that because if he casts his mind

:46:15. > :46:18.back he will probably remember that it was Nick Raynsford and the Labour

:46:19. > :46:21.Government who brought in the initiative for decent homes project.

:46:22. > :46:25.He said over years. He said over years. So they shouldn't be blaming

:46:26. > :46:30.Theresa May and her Government now and also because it's a Labour

:46:31. > :46:36.council that allowed all these refurbishments to happen and as part

:46:37. > :46:39.of the TA, for years and years and years, we went through snagging

:46:40. > :46:45.listsmed we went through all the flats. We checked all the work that

:46:46. > :46:50.the PFI were doing and we presented the snagging repairs that had to be

:46:51. > :46:54.done and weren't done properly and they ignored usment and they signed

:46:55. > :46:58.off the works without checking it properly. If they had done that then

:46:59. > :47:03.we wouldn't be in the situation and that's why I and a lot of residents

:47:04. > :47:06.are angry with Camden and with the past Labour Government. Don't blame

:47:07. > :47:12.Theresa May now. This was a Labour initiative and it was an EU

:47:13. > :47:16.directive to reduce greenhouse gases and reduce the amount of heating

:47:17. > :47:21.lost by flats and houses all over the country as well as improve the

:47:22. > :47:26.boilers. Jim Fitzpatrick how would you respond to what Linda said? The

:47:27. > :47:30.public inquiry does need to identify exactly what happened and track back

:47:31. > :47:33.what mistakes may have been made which is why I'm not entering the

:47:34. > :47:43.blame game because it is a complex question. The most important thing

:47:44. > :47:48.is making sure that in the wake of Grenfell people are we have now and

:47:49. > :47:51.we can use the public inquiry. Pointing the finger of blame at this

:47:52. > :47:55.point in time and looking at simple solutions is the wrong approach. We

:47:56. > :47:58.need to make sure that people are protected in their homes now and we

:47:59. > :48:02.need to work out what happened in Grenfell properly. Thank you very

:48:03. > :48:04.much. Thank you very much. That debate is

:48:05. > :48:07.in Parliament tonight. What happened to Edir Frederico Da

:48:08. > :48:10.Costa, a young black man who died just days after he was stopped

:48:11. > :48:17.by police in east London. His relatives allege he was beaten

:48:18. > :48:23.by officers. Protests over his death

:48:24. > :48:26.got ugly last night - six police officers were injured

:48:27. > :48:28.and four people arrested. We'll be talking to someone

:48:29. > :48:33.who was there yesterday. Some breaking news. The confidence

:48:34. > :48:37.and supply deal between the Conservatives and the Democratic

:48:38. > :48:41.Unionist Party is expected to be announced in the next couple of

:48:42. > :48:45.hours. Theresa May will meet Arlene Foster, the leader of the DUP at

:48:46. > :48:47.Downing Street in about 40 minutes time.

:48:48. > :48:49.We can talk to Conservative MP John Redwood and

:48:50. > :49:00.I would like you to explain what confidence and supply means to our

:49:01. > :49:02.audience, please? Well, it means that the coalition partner will

:49:03. > :49:07.support us to get a Budget through so we can pay all the bills legally

:49:08. > :49:11.and public expenditure can carry on and where Jeremy Corbyn to table a

:49:12. > :49:15.motion of no confidence in the Government then they would support

:49:16. > :49:18.us in seeing that off. The Government will have a majority for

:49:19. > :49:21.the big votes in the House of Commons and they will want to

:49:22. > :49:25.support us on Brexit, but it is not a full coalition agreement. So they

:49:26. > :49:28.will not be ministers and influence Conservative policy, we will have

:49:29. > :49:34.our separate identities on other issues. Will this deal make you the

:49:35. > :49:38.nasty party again? No, of course not! As I just explained on a range

:49:39. > :49:42.of issues particularly the social issues which people have in mind the

:49:43. > :49:45.Conservative Party will still have its own views and won't change its

:49:46. > :49:49.approach and there won't be a coalition deal on that kind of thing

:49:50. > :49:53.to change policy. Will we find out how much it will cost? Will the

:49:54. > :49:59.electorate find out how much the deal will cost? Of course, I suspect

:50:00. > :50:02.there will be a package of extra economic support for Northern

:50:03. > :50:05.Ireland and it will be reported to Parliament and we will need

:50:06. > :50:08.Parliamentary approval in the usual way, but clearly, there will be

:50:09. > :50:11.enough votes for that because the DUP are bound to vote for that and

:50:12. > :50:15.the Conservatives will as well. Justified how, to prop up Theresa

:50:16. > :50:18.May? No, it is nothing to do with propping up Theresa May. It is about

:50:19. > :50:21.having stable Government... It is a lot to do with propping up Theresa

:50:22. > :50:25.May as Prime Minister? No, it's about having stable Government for

:50:26. > :50:28.the country when the country has chosen to give no party an overall

:50:29. > :50:32.majority. I don't think the country wants us to go off and have another

:50:33. > :50:35.election, they will say you have had two elections and a referendum, get

:50:36. > :50:40.on and do some governing and make the best of the situation we've

:50:41. > :50:42.created. That's a fair challenge and the independent justification for

:50:43. > :50:46.some capital expenditure in Northern Ireland is after the troubles, and

:50:47. > :50:50.given the fact that their economy is not as strong and as wealthy as say

:50:51. > :50:54.the London and south-eastern economy, it is reasonable to give

:50:55. > :50:57.them extra capital. Has John Redwood got a point point. People don't want

:50:58. > :51:02.an election so this is the way forward? Well, the issue that wasn't

:51:03. > :51:05.touched on in that conversation that you had with John is the Northern

:51:06. > :51:07.Ireland Peace Process. It is clearly in the Northern Ireland agreement

:51:08. > :51:11.that the British Government has to hold the ring. It has to be the

:51:12. > :51:16.neutral party between the nationalist side and the unionist

:51:17. > :51:21.side. Now... Is this not the right way forward? The wrong way forward.

:51:22. > :51:25.By entering into a confidence and supply arrangement you have removed

:51:26. > :51:29.the neutrality of the Government. What's better? Theresa May should

:51:30. > :51:33.have tried to govern as a minority on a minority basis. I think by

:51:34. > :51:36.going into this formal agreement with the DUP, you are in serious

:51:37. > :51:39.danger of wrecking the Northern Ireland Peace Process and people's

:51:40. > :51:42.lives are at stake here. I know people are talking about Westminster

:51:43. > :51:45.and playing politics, but the Northern Ireland Peace Process is

:51:46. > :51:50.one of the great achievements of recent times and I think it is now

:51:51. > :51:55.in serious risk of being dislodged by this confidence in supply motion.

:51:56. > :51:58.How do you respond? I don't think that's true. The Government wouldn't

:51:59. > :52:00.do anything to jeopardise the talks that are continuing between the

:52:01. > :52:04.different parties in Northern Ireland. The very act of having

:52:05. > :52:08.this... Would you like me to answer? You know. The idea is that the

:52:09. > :52:12.Government will still be a strong advocate of the parties in Northern

:52:13. > :52:15.Ireland, talking through the issues they have got with each other so

:52:16. > :52:18.that we can restore devolved Government in Northern Ireland. That

:52:19. > :52:21.will remain the Government policy just as it was before suggestion of

:52:22. > :52:24.this agreement and no Northern Ireland Secretary, I think in any

:52:25. > :52:27.Government, would jeopardise that for the sake of some deal on some

:52:28. > :52:31.vote going on in the House of Commons. It's not true. I just think

:52:32. > :52:34.we have to look at the facts and where it clearly states that the

:52:35. > :52:38.neutrality of the British Government is fundamental to the peace process

:52:39. > :52:42.that neutrality is now blown out of the water. Arlene Foster is the most

:52:43. > :52:48.powerful politician in the United Kingdom. And she, it is her, yes or

:52:49. > :52:52.no, that will now dictate what this Government is doing. So, I think

:52:53. > :52:56.that really we have been sold down the river. I think it would have

:52:57. > :53:01.been far more sensible for Theresa May to just govern on a minority

:53:02. > :53:04.basis, but it's a sign of the total way in which she has been

:53:05. > :53:11.discredited and weakened by the general election. She is clinging on

:53:12. > :53:14.to power by her fingertips. The man in charge of Brexit negotiations,

:53:15. > :53:18.David Davis, said he can't be certain that Britain will secure a

:53:19. > :53:21.daesmt are you shocked by that? No, that's right. We have always made it

:53:22. > :53:25.very clear that we think we will get a deal and we think we can get a

:53:26. > :53:28.good deal for them and for us because we actually have the same

:53:29. > :53:31.interests although they keep that well concealed a lot of the time.

:53:32. > :53:34.But we've also said you have to be able to walk away. You don't have a

:53:35. > :53:39.negotiation if you're prepared to walk away. If all they do is come up

:53:40. > :53:44.with big bills and impediments to our trade we would be better off not

:53:45. > :53:47.having a deal. What is your own view, Mr Redwood about the status of

:53:48. > :53:53.EU citizens and their rights in the future and who should be the sort of

:53:54. > :53:56.arbiter of that? Should it be the European Court of Justice for

:53:57. > :53:59.example? Well, once we're an independent country again then our

:54:00. > :54:03.citizens should be under the control of the European Courts for the

:54:04. > :54:06.issues arising where they're living in the European country, European

:54:07. > :54:10.Union country and their citizens living in the UK should be under the

:54:11. > :54:13.UK courts. That's what normally happens when you have independent

:54:14. > :54:18.countries. I don't see why the EU finds that a difficult concept to

:54:19. > :54:24.understand because they don't put the ECJ over citizens in America, of

:54:25. > :54:28.course, they don't. Does that sound sensible? What we are seeing is the

:54:29. > :54:30.fragile coalition on Europe in the Conservative Party is falling apart.

:54:31. > :54:35.You have seen Philip Hammond making it clear that he wants to see a

:54:36. > :54:37.softer version of Brexit and we assume that would mean some

:54:38. > :54:42.jurisdiction for the European Court of Justice. So, I'm afraid that what

:54:43. > :54:45.we have is very mixed messages coming from the Government at the

:54:46. > :54:51.moment and so that's weak. And then on top of that, you've got the DUP

:54:52. > :54:54.propping them. And a red line for the DUP is the softest possible

:54:55. > :54:58.border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which means

:54:59. > :55:03.really staying in the customs union which flies directly in the face of

:55:04. > :55:06.John's position and many of his hardcore Brexiteers in the

:55:07. > :55:12.Conservative Party. So it is chaos. Ates real mess. We couldn't possibly

:55:13. > :55:15.be in a weaker position going into the most important negotiations in

:55:16. > :55:23.post-war British history. Just one lie after lie. Mr Hammond support

:55:24. > :55:27.the position that Mrs May set out on the ECJ and their role over where

:55:28. > :55:29.people live. Stephen stood on a manifesto from the Labour Party

:55:30. > :55:34.which said they would be leaving the single market and the customs union.

:55:35. > :55:37.He may have disassociated himself with it, but the Labour Party

:55:38. > :55:40.manifesto was that, for the good reason that the official Labour

:55:41. > :55:43.position and the official Conservative position is we want to

:55:44. > :55:47.have lots of trade arrangements that improve our trade with the rest of

:55:48. > :55:52.the world and you cannot do that if you're in the customs union or the

:55:53. > :55:56.single market. We don't need these lies from Labour. It is in

:55:57. > :56:00.contradiction of the DUP's position. On the single market, I mean I agree

:56:01. > :56:06.there is a debate going across Parliament on this and we're seeing

:56:07. > :56:10.a lot of the more pragmatic sensible wing of the Conservative Party

:56:11. > :56:15.coming to a position... Talk about your own party. There is a debate

:56:16. > :56:19.within the Labour Party, I recognise that. My position is that this is

:56:20. > :56:23.all about a transitional deal. There is no way that we're going to get

:56:24. > :56:27.the details of the divorce from the EU done by March 2019. The

:56:28. > :56:33.transition deal is there therefore pivotal in the negotiations. It

:56:34. > :56:36.should be based on us moving into the European Economic Area. Do you

:56:37. > :56:40.worry about a transitional deal or do you think we need that or do you

:56:41. > :56:43.want the Brexit deal to be done in this two years? I don't think there

:56:44. > :56:47.is any need to have a transitional deal if the EU gets on with it. At

:56:48. > :56:50.the moment they don't seem to have a great sense of speed and typically

:56:51. > :56:54.in EU negotiations which I used to do a lot of when I was minister,

:56:55. > :56:59.they would leave everything to the last minute so we may be leaving

:57:00. > :57:04.this until 2019, but it is in their interests to sort out the air routes

:57:05. > :57:07.and the customs basis and those kind of things that you need once we're

:57:08. > :57:13.independent and they know the deadline is March 2019 and it looks

:57:14. > :57:17.like they want to leave it to nearer 2019. Get on with it so we can have

:57:18. > :57:20.a friendly agreement sooner. It's not going to happen because Theresa

:57:21. > :57:24.May called this general election to get a landslide to get a mandate for

:57:25. > :57:31.her type of Brexit. That's not happening. We're becoming a laughing

:57:32. > :57:38.stock in the European Union. All the cards are in their hands. You have

:57:39. > :57:42.to have a transitional arrangement. So actually, I think we've got to

:57:43. > :57:46.get real on this. A transition deal as Philip Hammond said is absolutely

:57:47. > :57:51.critical. The transition deal should be based on us going into the

:57:52. > :57:56.European Economic Area buys us time to negotiate the rest. We trade on

:57:57. > :58:00.WTO trade with the rest of the world and we make a profit on that trade

:58:01. > :58:04.whereas we're in deficit with the EU. What's wrong with the WTO basis

:58:05. > :58:08.if they can't come up with anything better? It is in their interest to

:58:09. > :58:16.come up with something better. Thank you very much. Thank you.

:58:17. > :58:23.The latest news and sport in a moment. First, the weather.

:58:24. > :58:29.These are our Weather Watcher pictures. This was sent in by Craig.

:58:30. > :58:34.Blue skies across many other parts of the country. This sent in by Ash

:58:35. > :58:37.and that's of Swansea. If you are just stepping out, it's not

:58:38. > :58:42.particularly cold. In London, the current temperature is 18 Celsius.

:58:43. > :58:48.As it is in Plymouth, Cardiff, looking at 17 Celsius, Birmingham 15

:58:49. > :58:50.Celsius, Birmingham and Edinburgh both 13als and the temperature

:58:51. > :58:55.continuing to rise. Temperatures today peaking probably in the

:58:56. > :58:59.mid-20s in London. So what we have is low pressure drifting in from the

:59:00. > :59:02.south-west. Later on, that will introduce some rain to Northern

:59:03. > :59:06.Ireland initially, but high pressure is firmly in charge of our weather

:59:07. > :59:09.for much of the day, for most of the UK which means a lot of settled

:59:10. > :59:13.conditions, not much of a breeze and just one or two showers, not much

:59:14. > :59:17.more than that, but it also does mean that the UV levels are high or

:59:18. > :59:22.very high across many parts of the UK. Something to bear in mind if

:59:23. > :59:26.you're out and about. And the pollen levels across England and Wales are

:59:27. > :59:29.high. So, the forecast today, shows a lot of dry weather. Variable

:59:30. > :59:32.amounts of cloud. Just the odd shower. Especially across northern

:59:33. > :59:36.parts of Scotland and through the day as our low pressure comes in

:59:37. > :59:41.from the south-west, the cloud in the west will build, turning the

:59:42. > :59:46.sunshine hazier and introducing some more rain into Northern Ireland by

:59:47. > :59:52.the time we get to the late afternoon period. Now as we head on

:59:53. > :59:57.through the evening and overnight, some of this rain will be heavy and

:59:58. > :00:02.persistent as it moves across Northern Ireland, into Scotland and

:00:03. > :00:06.northern England and Wales, the heaviest looks like it will be

:00:07. > :00:10.across Cumbria and Dumfries and Galloway.

:00:11. > :00:15.And then that all extends north-east wards. You can see this long

:00:16. > :00:18.trailing front and then we have got another area of low pressure coming

:00:19. > :00:22.in tomorrow coming up from the near Continent. That will introduce

:00:23. > :00:25.thundery downpours. We start off with the rain pushing out of

:00:26. > :00:28.Northern Ireland, in across the rest of Scotland and northern England and

:00:29. > :00:32.Wales and then our second band of thundery showers comes up from the

:00:33. > :00:36.south. It won't be range all the time. There will be dry spells in

:00:37. > :00:40.between, but we are looking at highs of 21 Celsius and still feeling

:00:41. > :00:43.sticky in London. Perhaps the driest conditions will be in Northern

:00:44. > :00:46.Ireland where we are looking at a mixture of bright spells, sunshine

:00:47. > :00:51.and showers. Tuesday, and into Wednesday, all this rain gathers as

:00:52. > :00:56.it continues to journey northwards across much of England and Wales and

:00:57. > :00:57.it will continue fringing into Scotland and Northern Ireland as we

:00:58. > :01:17.head during the course of Wednesday. The confidence and supply deal

:01:18. > :01:22.between the DUP and the Conservative government is expected to be

:01:23. > :01:26.announced in the next couple of hours.

:01:27. > :01:29.Also on the programme: Every single tower block that's had its external

:01:30. > :01:31.cladding tested so far has failed fire safety tests.

:01:32. > :01:33.The key priority for us has got to be to keep

:01:34. > :01:35.people safe and that is

:01:36. > :01:42.why we are making sure this process works as quickly as possible.

:01:43. > :01:45.Two months after we revealed 800 women were suing the NHS

:01:46. > :01:47.for debilitating pain casued by vaginal mesh implants,

:01:48. > :01:50.surgeons tell us that NHS England is using mesh to repair hernias

:01:51. > :01:52.which also leaves many patients in chronic pain.

:01:53. > :02:01.It is as though I have been stabbed with something hot. I don't want to

:02:02. > :02:03.be eat and I don't want to venture out too far. It started out as fiery

:02:04. > :02:09.burning agony. And after being sexually abused

:02:10. > :02:17.by two former BBC radio presenters, A victim speaks out. People seem to

:02:18. > :02:42.have a different attitude to man. Breaking news, Charles and Camilla

:02:43. > :02:45.will visit Manchester Arena today to talk to staff who were first on the

:02:46. > :02:50.scene of the bombing several weeks ago. We can talk to our reporter

:02:51. > :02:54.Sarah Smith now. What do you know? This is about them going to meet the

:02:55. > :03:01.first responders, the people on the scene in the moments and then the

:03:02. > :03:05.hours after the incident unfolded. We have heard a bit about what they

:03:06. > :03:10.will be doing today. They will be at the arena itself and meeting venue's

:03:11. > :03:13.and security staff, and the medical teams who were there before anyone

:03:14. > :03:18.else there. We sometimes forget them when we think about the emergency

:03:19. > :03:21.services. They will be meeting British Transport Police, Greater

:03:22. > :03:25.Manchester Police, the ambulance and Fire Services. And then they are off

:03:26. > :03:32.to Manchester Town Hall. They are taking part in a Round Table

:03:33. > :03:36.discussion with community leaders and young people to talk about the

:03:37. > :03:39.impact it has had on them. And we saw the way the city seemed to come

:03:40. > :03:44.together in the days and weeks following the attack. They will be

:03:45. > :03:51.meeting medical staff from the eight hospitals involved in treating

:03:52. > :03:55.patients. Thank you. Now the rest of the news with Joanna. The BBC has

:03:56. > :03:58.been told the confidence and supply deal between the minority

:03:59. > :04:02.Conservative government and the Democratic Unionists is expected to

:04:03. > :04:05.be announced in the next couple of hours. The DUP leader Arlene Foster

:04:06. > :04:09.is due to hold talks with the Prime Minister in Downing Street this

:04:10. > :04:13.morning. Theresa May is seeking the backing of the DUP's ten MPs after

:04:14. > :04:17.losing her majority in the general election.

:04:18. > :04:19.Every single tower block which has had its cladding tested

:04:20. > :04:21.since the Grenfell disaster has failed fire safety inspections.

:04:22. > :04:29.There are still more than 500 other buildings nationwide that need to be

:04:30. > :04:32.checked. Meanwhile John McDonnell has told an audience at Glastonbury

:04:33. > :04:36.that victims of the Grenfell Tower fire were murdered by political

:04:37. > :04:38.decisions, blaming the decision to view housing has only for financial

:04:39. > :04:42.speculation. Six police officers were injured

:04:43. > :04:45.last night during a protest in East London about the death of a man last

:04:46. > :04:48.week, six days after he'd Bricks were thrown

:04:49. > :04:51.and bins set on fire The Independent Police

:04:52. > :04:54.Complaints Commission has said a post-mortem examination

:04:55. > :04:56.on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed that, contrary to some claims,

:04:57. > :04:59.he had no spinal injuries caused Surgeons have told this

:05:00. > :05:04.programme that NHS England hernias which leaves many patients

:05:05. > :05:07.in chronic pain. NHS England said mesh implants had

:05:08. > :05:10.been successfully used to treat The material is its recommended

:05:11. > :05:17.method for treating the condition. It is used on tens of thousands

:05:18. > :05:20.of patients every year. The use of mesh involves pushing

:05:21. > :05:27.bulging tissue back into the abdomen and covering it with the material,

:05:28. > :05:30.and it can be delivered via open The doctors' union,

:05:31. > :05:33.the British Medical Association, will claim today that years

:05:34. > :05:35.of underinvestment have left the NHS failing too

:05:36. > :05:38.many people, too often. The head of the BMA, Mark Porter,

:05:39. > :05:41.will accuse ministers of failing to spend as much on the health

:05:42. > :05:43.service as other European A beach in Majorca was closed

:05:44. > :05:53.yesterday after a blue shark sent The shark - thought to be

:05:54. > :05:57.about eight foot long - was spotted near swimmers

:05:58. > :05:59.close to Magaluf. Photos appear to show the shark

:06:00. > :06:11.swimming towards a group of people. That is a summary of the latest BBC

:06:12. > :06:12.News. More at 10:30am. Thank you. This message from Elizabeth in

:06:13. > :06:21.Derbyshire. She said she had a hernia repair

:06:22. > :06:25.operation and her body seems to reject the match and the sharp edges

:06:26. > :06:29.could be seen and felt just by looking at my abdomen. I had two

:06:30. > :06:33.further operations to remove it. After the last one he said he still

:06:34. > :06:39.couldn't get it all out. For years I have had discomfort because of the

:06:40. > :06:41.remaining mesh. We will talk more about that in a moment. But first

:06:42. > :06:52.the sport. Lewis Hamilton described rival

:06:53. > :06:53.Sebastian Vettel's driving disgusting after the two clashed

:06:54. > :06:55.in an incident packed The race included three safety cars

:06:56. > :06:59.and lots of crashes. It was won by Red Bull's

:07:00. > :07:06.Daniel Ricciardo. This

:07:07. > :07:08.is the incident everyone is talking for hitting Hamilton's Mercedes

:07:09. > :07:13.as they prepared for a re-start. Hamilton was ahead with 19 laps

:07:14. > :07:16.to go, but his head rest came loose. He ended up fifth, behind Vettel

:07:17. > :07:26.who's extended his championship lead If you want to prove that he is a

:07:27. > :07:32.man, I think you should do it out of the car, face-to-face. Driving

:07:33. > :07:37.dangerously weight in any way can put another driver at risk. It could

:07:38. > :07:40.have been a lot worse. Imagine all the young kids watching Formula One

:07:41. > :07:44.today and seeing that kind of behaviour from a world champion.

:07:45. > :07:49.It's a big week for the British and Irish Lions.

:07:50. > :07:51.They face the Hurricanes tomorrow before the must-win second test

:07:52. > :07:58.Lions coach Warren Gatland criticised their opponents' tactics

:07:59. > :08:01.after the first test defeat but All Blacks coach

:08:02. > :08:05.Steve Hansen hit back live on New Zealand radio.

:08:06. > :08:16.Predictable comments from Warren Gatland, isn't it? To say two weeks

:08:17. > :08:18.ago we cheated and now this. It is disappointing because he is saying

:08:19. > :08:22.we are going out to deliberately injure somebody and that is not the

:08:23. > :08:25.case. We have never been like that and as a New Zealander I expect him

:08:26. > :08:28.to know that it is not about intentionally trying to hurt

:08:29. > :08:31.anybody. It is about playing hard and fair.

:08:32. > :08:33.Petra Kvitova looks well prepared to challenge

:08:34. > :08:35.for a third Wimbledon title, winning just her second

:08:36. > :08:39.tournament since a career threatening hand injury.

:08:40. > :08:42.Kvitova won the Aegon Classic in Birmingham

:08:43. > :08:44.beating Australia's Ashleigh Barty in the final.

:08:45. > :08:47.It's only six months since she was hurt in a knife attack

:08:48. > :08:53.Wimbledon qualifying begins at Roehampton later,

:08:54. > :08:56.and it features Marcus Willis who made such an impact at last

:08:57. > :09:01.He faces the world number 146 Andrej Martin of Slovakia

:09:02. > :09:08.Meanwhile there are four Brits in action at Eastbourne.

:09:09. > :09:12.Kyle Edmund opens proceedings on Centre Court against USA's

:09:13. > :09:15.Donald Young with British Number Two Heather Watson following later

:09:16. > :09:21.in her match against Dominika Cibulkova.

:09:22. > :09:24.She'll be followed by Cameron Norrie whilst wildcard Naomi Broady plays

:09:25. > :09:32.And how about this from Jordan Spieth?

:09:33. > :09:35.The world number six won his 10th PGA title in some style.

:09:36. > :09:40.went down to a play-off at the Travelers Championship

:09:41. > :09:46.champion, chipping in from the bunker to seal the title.

:09:47. > :09:49.At 23, he's now the second youngest player after Tiger Woods to reach

:09:50. > :09:57.Classy way to do it. That is all the sport for now. Thank you. Welcome to

:09:58. > :10:03.the programme. It is nearly 10:10am. Surgeons have told this programme

:10:04. > :10:06.that NHS England is using mesh to repair hernias which leaves many

:10:07. > :10:08.patients in chronic pain. The concerns come after

:10:09. > :10:10.we exclusively revealed in April that more than 800 women are taking

:10:11. > :10:13.legal action against the NHS over One woman told us she was left

:10:14. > :10:18.screaming on all fours NHS England say mesh implants had

:10:19. > :10:25.been successfully used to treat Our reporter Anna Collinson

:10:26. > :10:34.has been investigating. We brught you her full report

:10:35. > :10:53.earlier and here's a short extract. The NHS carried out more than 60,000

:10:54. > :10:56.groin repairs in England between 2000 and 2016. But what happens if

:10:57. > :11:01.something goes wrong? Alan Abed had a groin hernia repair in 1998. A few

:11:02. > :11:06.years ago she started feeling pain and has spent most of this year off

:11:07. > :11:13.work sick. It feels like something is loose inside me and it is pulling

:11:14. > :11:19.when I walk. Whether it has moved or it has detached itself, I can feel

:11:20. > :11:23.it. It feels like a foreign body inside me. We have heard from a lot

:11:24. > :11:28.of people who have had hernia mesh operations and now live with chronic

:11:29. > :11:33.pain. They come from across the UK and they vary in age and gender but

:11:34. > :11:37.some similarities are striking. They say they were never warned about the

:11:38. > :11:41.risks of chronic pain. They claim they have been in pain for years and

:11:42. > :11:46.some have problems walking. They say they have had many scans and tests

:11:47. > :11:51.which have all come back clear. They also claimed that GPs mainly only

:11:52. > :11:55.offer pain relief and some suggested psychiatric help. Doctors have

:11:56. > :12:01.apparently repeatedly told them that mesh is not the cause. Martin had a

:12:02. > :12:07.groin hernia mesh repair in 1999 after a bike accident. For a long

:12:08. > :12:09.time he was fine but then he started getting abdominal pains. It is as if

:12:10. > :12:16.I have been stabbed with something hot. I don't want to eat. I don't

:12:17. > :12:20.want to venture out too far. My worst day is getting up and feeling

:12:21. > :12:27.twice my age and not being able to put my own underwear and socks on.

:12:28. > :12:32.Although at least one in ten groin hernia mesh patients will experience

:12:33. > :12:36.chronic pain, NHS England have told this programme that the technique

:12:37. > :12:38.has been undertaken extensively and successfully for several decades and

:12:39. > :12:46.note significant level of concern has been raised. -- no significant

:12:47. > :12:50.level. For years Martin has been suffering and he was not aware that

:12:51. > :12:54.there are people across the country who had similar stories to him and

:12:55. > :13:01.one even lived nearby. Hello. I am Helen. Nice to meet you. Take a

:13:02. > :13:09.seat. I have had an operation that I didn't need. And six years worth of

:13:10. > :13:17.investigation. Meeting new has been a complete revelation. It has helped

:13:18. > :13:22.confirm everything that I knew inside but was beginning to doubt. I

:13:23. > :13:27.will fight tooth and nail to get what I am entitled to. They have

:13:28. > :13:37.done this to me. I can't remove it. They have got to take it out. We

:13:38. > :13:44.began investigating hernia mesh is after so many of you contacted us to

:13:45. > :13:56.tell us about your problem after our exclusive film on vagina or mesh.

:13:57. > :14:01.My reality was fine for the first three years but then I began to have

:14:02. > :14:06.what felt like very intense period pains that would go on for days and

:14:07. > :14:12.weeks. I was referred back to my gynaecologist who said it must be

:14:13. > :14:17.your womb. I had a full abdominal hysterectomy to try and rectify my

:14:18. > :14:26.pain. And of course I still had it. So I lost my womb for no reason when

:14:27. > :14:30.I was 39. What did you think it was them? I went to see my GP after my

:14:31. > :14:34.hysterectomy and I said I was still in pain. He looked me square in the

:14:35. > :14:36.face and he said we have had you on the operating table, there is

:14:37. > :14:44.nothing there to see. You are depressed. Wow. How did that make

:14:45. > :14:50.you feel? I got back in my car and I phoned my husband and I said I can't

:14:51. > :14:56.live any more. I can't go through this. I am believing the doctors. I

:14:57. > :15:04.think it is in my head. I didn't know where else to turn. Did you

:15:05. > :15:14.have suicidal thoughts, can I ask? You did. Yes. I planned it. I mapped

:15:15. > :15:17.it out. That was our film from a couple of months ago. If you have a

:15:18. > :15:33.story you want us to look at, please email us. NHS England seems

:15:34. > :15:38.disinterested in collecting follow on data about mesh implants and some

:15:39. > :15:42.doctors are come pounding the problem by ignoring undiagnosed

:15:43. > :15:46.internal pains. Raymond says, "I had this operation nearly three years

:15:47. > :15:49.ago and it brought so much pain and misery to my life. Total denial from

:15:50. > :15:55.the GP and the hospital doctors about mesh problems and I'm still in

:15:56. > :15:59.pain." David says, "I had a groin hernia repair with mesh ten years

:16:00. > :16:07.ago and I have had pain ever since. It feels like broken glass slash

:16:08. > :16:11.barbed wire in my groin." John says, "I have a an operation since 2015

:16:12. > :16:13.and I have been in pain, but the consultant said there was nothing

:16:14. > :16:18.with the operation." Let's talk to Jackie Bullock who had

:16:19. > :16:20.an incisional hernia Stratton Richey, had a groin hernia

:16:21. > :16:25.repair a year earlier, but last year Kath Sansom is from the Sling

:16:26. > :16:34.the Mesh Campaign. Krishna Moorthy is Chief of Surgery

:16:35. > :16:36.and Consultant Surgeon at the British Hernia Centre

:16:37. > :16:49.which pioneered the use With us a general surgeon who

:16:50. > :16:53.carries out around four to six hernia repairs with mesh every week

:16:54. > :16:58.for an NHS hospital in Leeds. Thank you very much for coming on the

:16:59. > :17:03.programme. Nice to see you all. Jackie, tell us what your life was

:17:04. > :17:12.like before your hernia operation? I had mine to repair the hernias that

:17:13. > :17:16.had come through the operation. I used to enjoy fitness, looking after

:17:17. > :17:20.my horse and doing everything normally people would do and now I

:17:21. > :17:25.can't do any of that. I would love to go back to the gym to be able to

:17:26. > :17:31.get back on my horse, to be able to muck out and to do normal things, go

:17:32. > :17:36.shopping... Why can't you do those things anymore? It feels like there

:17:37. > :17:42.is a piece of barbed wire pulling at you. When I go to stand up, it feels

:17:43. > :17:47.like my inside are being ripped apart. I struggle to bend down. I

:17:48. > :17:50.can't walk for periods of time. I struggle to walk upstairs because it

:17:51. > :17:55.pulls on your stomach and you have to lift your legs to do it. It

:17:56. > :17:58.leaves you in a mess. What about yourself? What was it like before

:17:59. > :18:03.you had the mesh removed? Exactly the same. I was off work for six

:18:04. > :18:09.months. It was very, very difficult. I came out of hospital and the pain

:18:10. > :18:16.was phenomenal. I went back to the sujon and he said the mesh repair is

:18:17. > :18:23.fine, just man up. So after a year, 18 months I went to a different

:18:24. > :18:26.surgeon and he discussed the Shouldice method. It is a low grade

:18:27. > :18:31.method and it is getting better every day. When I woke up from

:18:32. > :18:36.surgery number two, that evening I walked to the pub. Surgery number

:18:37. > :18:40.one, I couldn't get off the couch for six months. A big difference on

:18:41. > :18:44.that. The mesh itself, I understand was in a perfect position, but

:18:45. > :18:49.during the surgery, a stitch had been put around a nerve and pulled

:18:50. > :18:54.it up. So it was being pulled all the time. No matter how much

:18:55. > :19:00.physiotherapy and swimming walking, it was therefore going to release

:19:01. > :19:04.that pain. Do you blame the mesh or that stitch put in by that surgeon

:19:05. > :19:09.at that time? It is going to be part of it because the mesh I could feel

:19:10. > :19:14.it, it was a solid mass. You could fill it digging in. If it was done

:19:15. > :19:18.without the damage to the nerve, it maybe a different outcome. Because

:19:19. > :19:23.there was a hole in the bowel and if you don't repair it, the bowel will

:19:24. > :19:30.pop thrau and you will get a strange lated hernia. Was it that damage to

:19:31. > :19:34.the nerve or not, who knows? We know the NHS England say this is the

:19:35. > :19:40.recommended practise for hernia repair. You regularly carry out

:19:41. > :19:45.these repairs using mesh. When you hear patients, not your patients,

:19:46. > :19:53.describe the debilitating pain that they have been in, that they are in,

:19:54. > :19:56.what do you think? With most operations, even hernia surgery

:19:57. > :20:01.needs to be delivered by Specialists who are, you know, treat hernia

:20:02. > :20:05.surgery as experts and you know, like any other operations, if it is

:20:06. > :20:08.delivered by specialists the outcomes are very good. The British

:20:09. > :20:12.hernia centre has been doing this for 25 years now and treated

:20:13. > :20:17.thousands of patients with this technique with excellent outcomes

:20:18. > :20:23.and the other thing is... Do you accept that, you two, do you think

:20:24. > :20:27.we were the unlucky ones? I had it done privately by a specialist

:20:28. > :20:31.surgeon in a specialist hospital. That's all he does. Whether it was

:20:32. > :20:37.an error or the mesh and Jackie will be different. Mine was on the NHS.

:20:38. > :20:40.I'm sure there are people out there who had successful hernia repairs

:20:41. > :20:46.done using mesh, but there is a lot of us who haven't and that's, we

:20:47. > :20:51.need help. Yes. The other issue is also about informed consent, you

:20:52. > :20:54.know, patients need to be informed that there is this incident of

:20:55. > :20:58.chronic groin pain and you know in my practise that's the one thing we

:20:59. > :21:02.talk about a lot during the outpatient consultation is this

:21:03. > :21:06.condition of chronic groin pain and how if it happens, in large number

:21:07. > :21:10.of patients, it's a niggling pain. They come back and see me because

:21:11. > :21:16.they want to be reassured because it is nothing more serious. Why is that

:21:17. > :21:19.there? Because of the mesh? Because of the scar tissue? There are lots

:21:20. > :21:25.of reasons. One of the reasons is probably because that area is very

:21:26. > :21:29.rich in nerves and if a nerve gets trapped then you get neuro pattic

:21:30. > :21:35.pain and that's probably one of the commonest causes for post hernia

:21:36. > :21:38.groin pain. Before I bring in a surgeon, Kath some of the things we

:21:39. > :21:43.are hearing today, sound very familiar to me, when we talked about

:21:44. > :21:47.vaginal mesh implants a few weeks ago. If I can take you back to the

:21:48. > :21:59.surgeon's skill. A lot of surgeons will aif you have a good surgeon,

:22:00. > :22:03.you can have a good surgeon and still have a bad outcome with

:22:04. > :22:07.chronic pain because the problem with the mesh implant, it is not

:22:08. > :22:13.inert. What that means is, once that mesh is inserted, it can change.

:22:14. > :22:21.Now, it can shrink and twist and degrade. So no amount of good

:22:22. > :22:26.surgery can compensate for the fact that you're putting something into a

:22:27. > :22:31.body. That's why we are getting scratching pains and you can get

:22:32. > :22:36.allergic reactions. It is similar to the vaginal mesh implants. Do you

:22:37. > :22:44.accept that? The actual, the nature of the mesh, what it is made of, can

:22:45. > :22:51.be the problem once it's inserted whether for vaginal mesh implants or

:22:52. > :22:55.a hernia repair? The cause of pain is multi- Victoria as my colleague

:22:56. > :23:02.just said. It is a neuro pathic pain. With hernia repairs, open

:23:03. > :23:06.operations, it is nerves in the groin can get injured whilst making

:23:07. > :23:14.the incision, these nerves can also be irritated by the mesh. A good way

:23:15. > :23:21.around this is increasingly being practised is to do the groin hernia

:23:22. > :23:27.operations by different route and not fixing the mesh as one of your

:23:28. > :23:31.interviewees pointed out. The pain is related to a nerve being trapped

:23:32. > :23:42.by a stitch or a staple that's been used to fix the mesh. So putting the

:23:43. > :23:48.mesh in without fixation and using a lightweight mesh. So that the

:23:49. > :23:56.problems of the mesh itself are not protruding and poking and so on are

:23:57. > :24:02.minimised. Stratton is here and would like a quick word with you.

:24:03. > :24:07.It's right when you are doing any surgery, you will cause damage.

:24:08. > :24:10.There will be post-operative repair. I went back after six months and I

:24:11. > :24:14.was told to man up. There was no offer of a scan to see if there was

:24:15. > :24:16.any damage in there. It was just said the mesh is fine. Go away and

:24:17. > :24:20.get on with it. Which wasn't possible. The pain was still too

:24:21. > :24:25.much. So, the follow-up is potentially not as good as perhaps

:24:26. > :24:28.it should be. The surgery I'm sure done well, but the follow up and

:24:29. > :24:32.we're talking about this earlier, of how you deal with the patient

:24:33. > :24:36.post-operative, as well as preoperative and you talked about

:24:37. > :24:40.telling us how much it could cause pain. When you go to see the doctor,

:24:41. > :24:47.it's not a language you know and the doctor will give us all this

:24:48. > :24:50.information and come flooding like a pebble on the beach and it is a lot

:24:51. > :24:54.for a patient who has no medical knowledge to understand what does

:24:55. > :24:57.chronic pain really mean. Yeah, I will get on with that, I will take

:24:58. > :25:02.Nurofen and that may not be enough and if there is damage, Nurofen or

:25:03. > :25:12.any other open yet is not going to help. I completely agree with you

:25:13. > :25:19.and follow-up is paramount and it's also very important and I firmly

:25:20. > :25:24.enshrine that in my practise is to counsel people about the pros and

:25:25. > :25:29.cons about hernia operations and to emphasise chronic pain. Kath would

:25:30. > :25:35.like to come in on this point. This point is so key about follow-up. You

:25:36. > :25:40.are talking about follow-up, but in the real world, when anybody goes

:25:41. > :25:45.back after they have a mesh implant operation. You get a quick

:25:46. > :25:49.consultation, the surgeon doesn't take that much notice because they

:25:50. > :25:53.think it will settle down awe feel you need to go away because you're

:25:54. > :25:56.not taken seriously. Not only are you in pain, but that's compounded

:25:57. > :26:01.by the fact that you are not really taken seriously. I don't believe

:26:02. > :26:05.there is proper auditing of how a patient is after their mesh

:26:06. > :26:07.operation. That goes for the first consultation a year down the line,

:26:08. > :26:11.however long down the line I don't think patients feel in the real

:26:12. > :26:15.world that they can keep going back to a surgeon because you are made

:26:16. > :26:20.feel like you are annoying or man up or in the women's mesh you're made

:26:21. > :26:32.to feel like you a menopausal silly woman. Go away. There is different

:26:33. > :26:37.types of pain. When I woke up from the shouldice operation, it was a

:26:38. > :26:41.different pain. Comments. "My wife had a hernia operation and she has

:26:42. > :26:45.suffered chronic pain, she can not walk more than a few steps because

:26:46. > :26:49.the pain is too intense and she is using a wheelchair. It is that bad

:26:50. > :26:55.she says she doesn't want to be here anymore. The surgeon that performed

:26:56. > :26:59.the repair refused to help and said mesh wasn't the problem." What

:27:00. > :27:04.should, what is your advice as a surgeon? What should that patient

:27:05. > :27:08.and husband do? What should they do? That patient should be managed by a

:27:09. > :27:12.multidisciplinary team. What should they do now? They should go back and

:27:13. > :27:17.see the surgeon, go back to the hospital. How make them listen? The

:27:18. > :27:21.experience from so many people is, the first thing the surgeon says is,

:27:22. > :27:30."It can't possibly be the mesh." Well, one of the things is to make a

:27:31. > :27:34.multidisciplinary approach. It is usually surgeons working with

:27:35. > :27:39.radiologists and working with pain clinics. The surgeons aren't

:27:40. > :27:45.offering scans. Pain clinics are nonexistent. They are denying the

:27:46. > :27:48.level of pain. That's a really massive issue here. They are denying

:27:49. > :27:52.the level of pain and they are denying the mesh has anything to do

:27:53. > :27:58.with the pain. Therefore, you are made to feel go away or a nuisance

:27:59. > :28:04.or going a bit mad. It is so very cruel. It is like any surgery.

:28:05. > :28:08.Informed consent is so important. I don't want to go over old ground.

:28:09. > :28:13.This person should go back to the surgeon and beg them to listen and

:28:14. > :28:19.then say, "Please let me have a second opinion." Is that sensible.

:28:20. > :28:23.Yes. I think it should be pointed out that serious pain after a hernia

:28:24. > :28:27.repair operations is a well established and well documented

:28:28. > :28:31.problem. I'm getting messages, sorry to interrupt, from people who had

:28:32. > :28:34.this years ago, this operation. Here is another one, "Wow, this is how I

:28:35. > :28:39.have been feeling for the past ten years. I have had all the

:28:40. > :28:44.investigations and still been fobbed off. I have had two hernia repairs

:28:45. > :28:49.and I have been left incapacitated. Your programme has given me comfort

:28:50. > :28:54.in that I'm not alone." Kevin broub says, "I have had a mesh repair. I

:28:55. > :29:00.had really intense burning in my groin like a blow torch. I wasn't

:29:01. > :29:06.being listened. They implied it was all in my head." Julie says, "I had

:29:07. > :29:13.a hernia mesh op in 2014, I am on medication for nerve pain. I find it

:29:14. > :29:17.difficult to sit down and nauseous when I lie down. I thought I was the

:29:18. > :29:21.only one in this situation until now." It is worth pointing out that

:29:22. > :29:25.lots of people had exactly this and they have had really good outcomes.

:29:26. > :29:31.Plenty of people e-mailing. So we need to make that point. Let me tell

:29:32. > :29:34.you that a spokesperson for the Royal College of Surgeons says that

:29:35. > :29:41.mesh implants are the most effective way to deal with a hernia.

:29:42. > :29:46.The use of a mesh also ensures patients recover quickly and this

:29:47. > :29:51.from NHS England, mesh repair is the recommended method of groin hernia

:29:52. > :30:02.repair and it is the most widely used technique. With shouldice I

:30:03. > :30:09.have movement in that area. It is an effective treatment option. It fixes

:30:10. > :30:13.T but what nobody talks about is the quality of life after wafrds. There

:30:14. > :30:21.is the vagina mesh implants, the risk is up to 42% of. That's a high

:30:22. > :30:24.figure, but they conclude by saying, "This is an effective treatment

:30:25. > :30:27.option." We are talking about the quality of life that goes alongside

:30:28. > :30:28.it. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Thank you. Thank

:30:29. > :30:35.you. I appreciate your time. A deal between the DUP

:30:36. > :30:37.and the Conservatives is expected to be announced

:30:38. > :30:39.within the next hour. The DUP leader, Arlene Foster,

:30:40. > :30:42.is about to arrive at Downing Street It would see the party's 10 MPs

:30:43. > :30:49.supporting her minority Conservative government on what's called

:30:50. > :30:51.a confidence and supply basis. Our political correspondent

:30:52. > :31:01.Chris Mason is here. Good morning. It is just worth

:31:02. > :31:06.explaining what the confidence and supply deal means in practical

:31:07. > :31:11.terms. Yes. What it means is something very different from our

:31:12. > :31:15.only other recent experience of a major party failing to secure a

:31:16. > :31:22.majority which was the coalition deal that we saw in 2010. The book

:31:23. > :31:26.was written after that deal was signed called Five Days In May. By

:31:27. > :31:33.Mike at a nation we are into 18 days in June and still no deal. -- by my

:31:34. > :31:36.calculation. The Liberal Democrat and the Conservatives came into

:31:37. > :31:40.government gather and sat around the Cabinet table together and it was

:31:41. > :31:45.formal and it was signed on the dotted line and we all remember that

:31:46. > :31:49.moment of lovey-dovey in the rose garden. It has taken much longer to

:31:50. > :31:52.come to that arrangement this time, and secondly that arrangement...

:31:53. > :31:56.Just keeping an eye on those gates to see if there is any movement.

:31:57. > :32:01.Arlene Foster not quite ready to roll in as the leader of the DUP.

:32:02. > :32:06.This confidence and supply agreement is a looser arrangement. In essence

:32:07. > :32:10.it means that the DUP will agree to back the Conservatives on the very

:32:11. > :32:19.big boats, votes of confidence and supply. That means money. Budget.

:32:20. > :32:22.That is the essence of the deal that we expect to be formally announced

:32:23. > :32:27.in the next couple of hours. The crucial bit will be how much detail

:32:28. > :32:31.we get about what the DUP has managed to secure a return and how

:32:32. > :32:36.willing they are to support the Conservative day in and day out as

:32:37. > :32:39.well as just those big votes. What kind of things might Arlene Foster

:32:40. > :32:43.have been negotiating to get for Northern Ireland in the last couple

:32:44. > :32:48.of weeks? I suspect we can probably surmise that in one word which is

:32:49. > :32:55.unfortunate. I am going to try to keep talking until she arrives! The

:32:56. > :32:58.word is money. That is reasonable. If you are the biggest party in

:32:59. > :33:03.Northern Ireland you would want to say to your voters that you are

:33:04. > :33:09.getting something for this deal with the Conservatives. There has been

:33:10. > :33:13.quite a lot of expectation among the Democratic Unionists, who are very

:33:14. > :33:16.skilled negotiators because of the nature of Northern Ireland politics

:33:17. > :33:20.and power sharing, which involves a lot of negotiation. Money for

:33:21. > :33:24.Northern Ireland will be central. The tricky thing from the

:33:25. > :33:27.perspective of the Conservatives in doing that, you would perfectly

:33:28. > :33:31.understand why there would be clamouring from Wales and Scotland

:33:32. > :33:41.saying, hang on, if you are shovelling dot in the direction of

:33:42. > :33:48.Belfast, what about us? -- shovelling dosh. It is a fine

:33:49. > :33:51.balance that Theresa May has got to strike, not overreaching what would

:33:52. > :33:58.be seen to be acceptable in the rest of the UK. However without the

:33:59. > :34:00.support of the DUP, she is a minority government and incredibly

:34:01. > :34:03.vulnerable to losing votes in the House of Commons. To go back to your

:34:04. > :34:11.earlier question about the difference between this deal and the

:34:12. > :34:17.15 years ago, even if the DUP are willing to back the Conservatives on

:34:18. > :34:20.big votes of confidence and supply, unlike with the Liberal Democrats

:34:21. > :34:24.and the Conservatives, there was an expectation once that deal was

:34:25. > :34:27.signed that there was a decent majority for the coalition, and

:34:28. > :34:32.therefore it was unlikely to lose Commons votes, even with a

:34:33. > :34:38.confidence and supply deal, there will still be pretty much every

:34:39. > :34:43.week, sometimes more often than every week, nervous moments for the

:34:44. > :34:51.Conservatives wear a big vote comes up, even a small boat, and they are

:34:52. > :34:54.thinking where are the DUP? Are they even in Westminster? Can they rely

:34:55. > :34:58.on them? The Chief Whip for the Conservatives, the guy in charge of

:34:59. > :35:01.discipline and making sure that Conservative MPs vote in the way

:35:02. > :35:06.Theresa May hopes, we saw him going into Downing Street and he has one

:35:07. > :35:09.heck of a job coming up. Strictly on the Brexit votes as the Brexit

:35:10. > :35:15.negotiations happen over the next couple of years. Can I just ask you

:35:16. > :35:19.about the peace process? The Good Friday Agreement suggested that the

:35:20. > :35:23.British government had to be neutral between nationalists and Democratic

:35:24. > :35:27.Unionists, and many critics of this deal between the DUP and the Tories

:35:28. > :35:31.say the government is no longer neutral. It cannot be an impartial

:35:32. > :35:37.voice when it comes to negotiating in Northern Ireland because it is

:35:38. > :35:42.now on the side of the DUP. Yes, that is a really tricky area

:35:43. > :35:45.diplomatically for the Conservatives to tread. Yes, the Good Friday

:35:46. > :35:50.Agreement obliges both the British government and the Irish government

:35:51. > :35:53.to be neutral, impartial, in its outlook on politics in Northern

:35:54. > :35:58.Ireland and the different political parties in Northern Ireland. We have

:35:59. > :36:02.already seen expressions of reservation articulated by some on

:36:03. > :36:06.the other side of the political divide in Northern Ireland from Sinn

:36:07. > :36:11.Fein and also from the nationalist SDLP, who have said hang on. If you

:36:12. > :36:18.are going to remain impartial, how can you be certain that is the case.

:36:19. > :36:23.How can we be certain? If you are propped up in Westminster by the

:36:24. > :36:27.DUP? James Brokenshire has done his best to make the argument that the

:36:28. > :36:30.Conservatives will remain impartial in their dealings with northern

:36:31. > :36:35.Irish specifics, but they will have this arrangement with the DUP at

:36:36. > :36:40.Westminster. But there are sceptics who say that is turning a pretty

:36:41. > :36:45.clear line into something that looks rather fuzzy and vague. And we have

:36:46. > :36:49.seen others involved in the whole process of arranging the Good Friday

:36:50. > :36:53.Agreement expressing their reservations about what it might

:36:54. > :36:59.mean for the stability of northern Irish politics. This would be a big

:37:00. > :37:04.deal whoever had won the general election, even if the party hat won

:37:05. > :37:07.clearly with an overall majority. Politics in Northern Ireland is very

:37:08. > :37:11.much in flux at the moment as we wait to see if there can be some

:37:12. > :37:17.kind of deal to restart power-sharing, restart the Assembly

:37:18. > :37:23.at Stormont. That old thing unravelling back at the beginning of

:37:24. > :37:27.the year, if you remember, with the row over the renewable heating

:37:28. > :37:29.scheme and the collapse of the local power-sharing arrangement there.

:37:30. > :37:35.Elections in March and still no resolution to that. As you can tell,

:37:36. > :37:40.I am waffling! We still haven't seen Arlene Foster and the gates are

:37:41. > :37:43.closed. No sign of her. Diddy Factor, you have not been waffling

:37:44. > :37:49.but you have been looking to your left a lot. -- to be fair. Don't

:37:50. > :37:53.worry, we will see her because she will be right behind you but we do

:37:54. > :37:57.appreciate your efforts! The gates are closed so it is not imminent

:37:58. > :38:02.unfortunately. The minute we stop talking, she will roll up. And we

:38:03. > :38:09.will be back with you as soon as that happens. Now the headlines with

:38:10. > :38:16.Joanna. And we are prime to go back to Downing Street as soon as.

:38:17. > :38:19.Every one of the 60 tower blocks which have had their cladding tested

:38:20. > :38:21.since the Grenfell disaster has failed fire safety inspections.

:38:22. > :38:23.There are still more than 500 other buildings nationwide

:38:24. > :38:26.Meanwhile, Labour's John McDonnell has told an audience

:38:27. > :38:29.at a Glastonbury Festival event that victims of the Grenfell Tower

:38:30. > :38:30.fire were murdered by political decisions

:38:31. > :38:33.blaming what he called the decision to view housing as only

:38:34. > :38:37.Six police officers were injured last night during a protest in East

:38:38. > :38:40.London about the death of a man last week, six days after he'd

:38:41. > :38:43.Bricks were thrown and bins set on fire

:38:44. > :38:48.The Independent Police Complaints Commission has said

:38:49. > :38:50.a post-mortem examination on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed

:38:51. > :38:52.that, contrary to some claims, he had no spinal injuries caused

:38:53. > :39:05.And now back to Chris! As predicted, here they come. The leading lights

:39:06. > :39:09.of the Democratic Unionist Party are heading up the street. I will get

:39:10. > :39:13.out of the shot and we will shout questions in their direction. Deal

:39:14. > :39:22.or no deal? Have you got one now? Why has it taken so long? Deal or no

:39:23. > :39:31.deal, Mrs Foster? How much money have you held out for? What price

:39:32. > :39:45.for DUP support? Is this the moment of you signing on the dotted line?

:39:46. > :39:48.Deal or no deal? There you go. One of those classic absurd journalistic

:39:49. > :39:54.moments where we shout questions, some more intelligent than others

:39:55. > :39:58.and some rather inane, and we predictably get no answer whatsoever

:39:59. > :40:01.but plenty of smiles on the steps of Downing Street. We think we will get

:40:02. > :40:05.the details of the deal next half an hour or so but they were ten minutes

:40:06. > :40:09.late so I am giving up on time predictions this morning. Fine.

:40:10. > :40:13.Thank you. As soon as Theresa May and Arlene Foster of the DUP come

:40:14. > :40:16.out of the front door, as they will at some point and say something

:40:17. > :40:23.about whether there has been deal or no deal, then you will see it live

:40:24. > :40:29.on the BBC News Channel. Next on the programme: A man who was sexually

:40:30. > :40:32.assaulted as a 14-year-old boy by two former BBC radio presenters

:40:33. > :40:37.tells us he is speaking out to help other victims come forward. Husband

:40:38. > :40:41.and wife Tony and Julie Wadsworth were found guilty of encouraging six

:40:42. > :40:45.boys between the ages of 11 and 15 to take part in sexual activity in

:40:46. > :40:54.the 1990s. The couple presented on BBC Radio London WN and radio

:40:55. > :40:57.Leicester. Our next guest has arrived. She is sitting opposite to

:40:58. > :41:00.me and she is the first female county commissioner for

:41:01. > :41:08.Leicestershire Scouts. Can I first apologise? She was a very naughty

:41:09. > :41:16.Cub Scout, my Mrs. One of the victims has waived his right to

:41:17. > :41:21.anonymity. You might find this upsetting. You may not want young

:41:22. > :41:25.children to hear this. Darren Cunningham was 14 when the abuse

:41:26. > :41:29.began. I googled the names of the people I had seen on the TV and I

:41:30. > :41:33.had seen the pictures and it was them, the same couple. I went home

:41:34. > :41:39.and I told my wife that they had been on the news. I said I don't

:41:40. > :41:43.know whether to telephone the police because they have been charged with

:41:44. > :41:50.offences in 1996. What happened to us was in 1992. I was wondering what

:41:51. > :41:53.happened in four years in between? Did they stop? For a couple of years

:41:54. > :41:58.I toyed with the idea of telling the police because I was getting married

:41:59. > :42:02.in a month. My wife said do you want to bring this up four weeks before

:42:03. > :42:06.the wedding? I gave it a few days and decided to call the police. I

:42:07. > :42:10.dialled 101 and I spoke to someone on the phone and they got the CID

:42:11. > :42:15.officer in charge of the case to ring me back. He asked me to come in

:42:16. > :42:21.for an interview. I went in and gave a statement about what happened to

:42:22. > :42:24.us. I think at the forefront of your mind you had not only what happened

:42:25. > :42:29.to you but the fact that you have got an 11-year-old stepson. They

:42:30. > :42:35.said the youngest victim was 11. I lived at my stepson, who is 11 soon,

:42:36. > :42:41.and they are tiny. When it happened to us we were 14. Although it was

:42:42. > :42:44.still really bad we thought we were in control. That is what grooming

:42:45. > :42:52.does. It makes you think you are in control. And can I ask what happened

:42:53. > :42:56.to you in the 90s? What happened was we were playing in the park as kids.

:42:57. > :43:00.A friend came down and said there is a lady and a man coming down and the

:43:01. > :43:04.lady has got no underwear on. We said how do you know and she said

:43:05. > :43:09.she has got a skirt on with split up the side. We went and had a look,

:43:10. > :43:12.the boys that I was with, and there she was walking down the road with

:43:13. > :43:16.her legs coming out of the split in her skirt. Because it was so high

:43:17. > :43:31.you could see there was no knickers line. She looked back

:43:32. > :43:35.at us and she was giggling and they liked the fact that we were having a

:43:36. > :43:39.look. They went into the trees in the busy park. We went in and had a

:43:40. > :43:42.look through the gaps in the bushes. They beckoned us to come closer and

:43:43. > :43:44.they told us to come in. They were performing sex acts on each other.

:43:45. > :43:54.Escape was lifted up and her top was undone and she undid his trousers

:43:55. > :43:57.and took out his penis. They asked us if there was somewhere more

:43:58. > :44:02.private and we were a group of boys who knew the area so we said there

:44:03. > :44:07.was woodland not far away. I took my bike and we walked up there. They

:44:08. > :44:10.went into the trees and they had full sex in the woodland in front of

:44:11. > :44:16.us and we stood there watching. We were shocked, surprised, just like

:44:17. > :44:20.14-year-old boys. We hadn't seen anything then. It was not the time

:44:21. > :44:23.of the internet. Most 14-year-old boys have probably seen something

:44:24. > :44:27.with the internet but we hadn't at that time. There was no internet. We

:44:28. > :44:31.watch them and they invited us to come back next week to see them

:44:32. > :44:34.again. We went back the next week and watched them again. At the end

:44:35. > :44:39.of that time, she said if you come back next week, you can have a play.

:44:40. > :44:45.So we went. All this time, they were inviting us. We thought we were in

:44:46. > :44:51.control of it. We didn't know any better. The week after we went back.

:44:52. > :44:56.A boy that I was with went into the bushes first with Julie and Tony. I

:44:57. > :45:00.waited at the footpath. He had been got a few minutes and he came back.

:45:01. > :45:07.He said he has got a camera. Her husband has got a camera. He said

:45:08. > :45:11.that she wanted me to go in so I went in. She was sitting there on

:45:12. > :45:17.her coat in stockings and suspenders with no underwear and shoes on. I

:45:18. > :45:20.went and sat next to her and I said I am not doing anything because he

:45:21. > :45:25.has got a camera. She told her husband to take a walk and he walked

:45:26. > :45:29.off into the woods with the camera. Basically she undid my trousers,

:45:30. > :45:37.took total control, masturbated me, told me to touch her, and basically

:45:38. > :45:43.instructed me what to do. In court, the couple's defence was that you

:45:44. > :45:45.were older than you were and that she in particular was a victim of

:45:46. > :45:55.poisonous and untrue allegations. When I went into the dock I was

:45:56. > :45:59.scwed for an hour-and-a-half. They went over my story lots of times and

:46:00. > :46:03.first of all they said I had met a couple, but it wasn't them and then

:46:04. > :46:07.they said I hadn't met anybody and I was lying and then they said I had

:46:08. > :46:13.met them, but I was older. It just changed quite a lot through the

:46:14. > :46:17.whole hour-and-a-half I was in there, but when she went into court

:46:18. > :46:22.herself, she admitted to touching me, but said I was older. I knew how

:46:23. > :46:25.old I was because significant things happened at that time. A friend of

:46:26. > :46:32.mine's mum had died in the period that this happened. So, within, we

:46:33. > :46:35.met them on the Saturday and then the following Thursday, my friend's

:46:36. > :46:40.mum had died and then the Saturday after that, we went again. So I knew

:46:41. > :46:44.the exact date. I could check when my friend's mum died so I knew the

:46:45. > :46:48.exact date it happened. I think some of your friends now have said that

:46:49. > :46:55.they wish it had happened to them. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of, it has had a

:46:56. > :47:01.lot of mixed reactions really. Most men think that it was great and they

:47:02. > :47:05.wish it had happened to them, but it's not that way. I have got a

:47:06. > :47:08.14-year-old daughter. I have got a 13-year-old and if a 35-year-old man

:47:09. > :47:13.was doing something to them, everybody would be up in arms and

:47:14. > :47:17.they would want them lynched or put away, but seem seem to have a

:47:18. > :47:21.different attitude to men. They think that, it is said in the paper

:47:22. > :47:25.and it has been said a few times, it is like every boy's dream, every

:47:26. > :47:29.14-year-old boy's dream and it probably is when you're 14, but you

:47:30. > :47:34.don't realise that it's wrong at 14. You think you're a man or you think

:47:35. > :47:37.you're grown up. Teens do. They think they are grown up way before

:47:38. > :47:45.their time and it's just wrong, isn't it? The NSPCC say their

:47:46. > :47:50.behaviour was child sexual abuse. People are much more aware of abuse

:47:51. > :47:53.on children now. Not that they weren't aware, but I just don't

:47:54. > :48:01.think it's taken in the same light and now the police are very good at,

:48:02. > :48:04.they know, all the signs of abuse and they are helpful. When I went to

:48:05. > :48:08.speak to them, they were brilliant with me. I mean, you were groomed

:48:09. > :48:13.effectively. You may not have realised it, but that's what

:48:14. > :48:20.happened? I always believed from that day, we have never really spoke

:48:21. > :48:26.about it much. I told my wife when I met her and I told a group of boy

:48:27. > :48:30.and they didn't believe me, but I always thought, it was only us. Me

:48:31. > :48:34.and the group of friends that we were in, we bumped into them by

:48:35. > :48:37.chance and seeing they were canoodling and having sex in the

:48:38. > :48:42.woods and we got invited just by chance that that happened. It wasn't

:48:43. > :48:45.until they were charged with the offences in 1996 and I later heard

:48:46. > :48:51.about all the other accounts that it was, they were grooming and it was

:48:52. > :48:55.basically an NO for them. They led us to believe they showed them the

:48:56. > :48:58.woods where they went, but it turned out they took other boys to the same

:48:59. > :49:04.place. It was just what they were doing and what they were into. They

:49:05. > :49:08.have been jailed for five years for indecently assaulting underage boys.

:49:09. > :49:13.What do you think of the sentence? I think five years, it's fair. I was

:49:14. > :49:17.just happy that they got sentenced. I wanted them to get charged so it

:49:18. > :49:22.didn't happen to anyone else. It wouldn't matter if they got two

:49:23. > :49:27.years or got 20. They are at an age now where five years is a big chunk

:49:28. > :49:31.of their life, 60 and 70 years old. So they will feel the punishment and

:49:32. > :49:38.I'm sure people if prison will know who they are. And how important

:49:39. > :49:43.finally Darren has it been to wave your right to anonymity, to speak up

:49:44. > :49:46.about this? It has been important. I had a couple of messages via

:49:47. > :49:50.Facebook of people that have been abused and hadn't told anybody and

:49:51. > :49:53.now, me being on the TV and speaking out has made them come forward. They

:49:54. > :49:57.have got interviews with the police and I think if it gives people the

:49:58. > :50:00.strng to come forward then it is the right thing to do.

:50:01. > :50:04.Thank you very much, Darren. Thank you so much for talking to us. Thank

:50:05. > :50:06.you. Darren Cunningham talking to us a

:50:07. > :50:13.little earlier. Six police officers have been

:50:14. > :50:16.injured and four people arrested in a protest over the death of a man

:50:17. > :50:25.following a traffic stop. The protest began after 3pm

:50:26. > :50:32.yesterday afternoon outside forest gate Police Station in East London.

:50:33. > :50:37.Friends and family claim Edir Frederico Da Costa's neck was broken

:50:38. > :50:40.and he was brutally beaten, but the Independent Police Complaints

:50:41. > :50:44.Commission which is investigating says a preliminary postmortem

:50:45. > :50:48.indicated there were no spinal injuries caused by the police. This

:50:49. > :50:53.man, who was a childhood friend of the 25-year-old father of one, did

:50:54. > :50:56.not want to be identified. They need to tell us what happened. What

:50:57. > :51:00.happened on that day? How did he get killed? What happened? That's what

:51:01. > :51:06.we need to know from the police. Simple. Edir Frederico Da Costa died

:51:07. > :51:10.in hospital on Wednesday. Six days after he was stopped in a car with

:51:11. > :51:14.two other people by police in the Newham area of East London. The

:51:15. > :51:18.Metropolitan Police initially said he became unwell and that he had

:51:19. > :51:22.swallowed a large quantity of drugs. But relatives told the BBC that he

:51:23. > :51:27.suffered a series of extensive injuries including a broken neck,

:51:28. > :51:31.brain damage as a result of head injuries, a broken collarbone and a

:51:32. > :51:36.loss of his eyesight due to the quantity of CS spray used on him. I

:51:37. > :51:41.want to know answers why they used so much force on someone and why

:51:42. > :51:47.they kicked him down and then broke his neck in two places. He was

:51:48. > :51:53.unconscious. It's disgusting. It's just disgusting.

:51:54. > :51:59.There were angry scenes as a demonstration which was supported by

:52:00. > :52:04.the UK's Black Life Matter Movement caused the shopping centre to be

:52:05. > :52:08.evacuated. Despite senior police officers meeting protesters and

:52:09. > :52:12.trying to calm tensions, there were violent scenes later in the evening.

:52:13. > :52:17.Bricks were thrown and bins set on fire. Nothing, nothing, legit has

:52:18. > :52:20.been touched. No people's businesses, no people's cars, no

:52:21. > :52:24.nothing. They have gone for the police. Do you understand what I'm

:52:25. > :52:27.trying to say to you? Really and truly what other way can you do it?

:52:28. > :52:32.I'm asking you what other way can we go about this now? Scotland Yard

:52:33. > :52:36.says six of its officers were injured. Meanwhile four people were

:52:37. > :52:39.arrested. But Edir Frederico Da Costa's family say they have a

:52:40. > :52:42.number of questions. They say they want to know how and why he lost his

:52:43. > :52:56.life? The Independent Police Complaints

:52:57. > :53:01.Commission is investigating the case. Let's talk to Respect. He was

:53:02. > :53:07.at the protest yesterday. Tell us what happened yesterday? From 2pm

:53:08. > :53:12.until about 7pm I was there, we met up at forest gate Station. It was a

:53:13. > :53:17.peaceful protest. All the way from forest gate to Stratford, completely

:53:18. > :53:20.peaceful. No violence. People were agitated. There was people that

:53:21. > :53:24.wanted to, you know, there was people that wanted to react

:53:25. > :53:28.violently because they felt like the questions weren't being answered and

:53:29. > :53:32.the majority of us there kept telling them no, we're going to deal

:53:33. > :53:35.with this peacefully. I heard that afterwards, when the people was

:53:36. > :53:39.going back towards Stratford, I don't know because it was police

:53:40. > :53:43.antagonism because I know the police were kind of antagonising some of

:53:44. > :53:48.the guys down there, I don't know if that's the reason, but we heard

:53:49. > :53:51.there was some form of uprising. But the violence, that wasn't the reason

:53:52. > :53:55.why we went out there and one of the things I want people to remember is

:53:56. > :53:59.if there is 200 people and they're peaceful and two people start, it

:54:00. > :54:04.looks like it's everyone. So you're disappointed with those

:54:05. > :54:09.behind the violence? Oh yeah. I'm definitely disappointed. But at the

:54:10. > :54:13.same time, I have to be able to understand it. They're grieving and

:54:14. > :54:21.they're not getting answers. One of the guys asked what can we do if I

:54:22. > :54:26.quote JFK and Martin Luther King. What happens if the police don't

:54:27. > :54:30.deal with people like me who want peaceful resolutions do you know

:54:31. > :54:35.what I'm saying? We just want justice. As we know when black

:54:36. > :54:39.children kill black children they go due process and they're prosecuted.

:54:40. > :54:44.We just want the same for the police. There are, as you know, two

:54:45. > :54:48.conflicting accounts about what happened to this young man. Yeah.

:54:49. > :54:54.What the family says and what the police say, couldn't be more

:54:55. > :54:58.different. 100%. In terms of what you want now, what would you say? I

:54:59. > :55:02.don't any the family is lying because the police told the family

:55:03. > :55:06.not to join the protest yesterday and the family didn't join the

:55:07. > :55:11.protest. So, I don't feel like the family have a reason to lie and from

:55:12. > :55:16.my experience, police brutality is rife, that's why a lot of them guys

:55:17. > :55:22.was rioting because they have had to deal with police brutality on so

:55:23. > :55:27.many occasions and we heard about it from Mark Duggan there has been many

:55:28. > :55:32.deaths in police custody and not anyone has been prosecuted. Do

:55:33. > :55:35.people have faith in the Independent Police Complaints Commission? It is

:55:36. > :55:39.made up of ex-police officers. So, a lot of us believe that that

:55:40. > :55:45.compromises them. Not independent enough? Yes, it is not independent

:55:46. > :55:47.enough because they haven't yet managed to prosecute one police

:55:48. > :55:57.officer to my knowledge. Thank you.

:55:58. > :55:59.We contacted the Metropolitan Police for an interview but were told

:56:00. > :56:03.But they sent us a statement from Newham's Borough Commander

:56:04. > :56:05.Chief Superintendent Ian Larnder, who says, "All police officers

:56:06. > :56:08.are fully aware that they will be asked to account for their actions,

:56:09. > :56:11.officers are not exempt from the law and we would not wish to be.

:56:12. > :56:13.I know that Edir's family, friends and the wider

:56:14. > :56:16.community want answers, but it is important

:56:17. > :56:18.that the investigation is allowed to take place to establish the full

:56:19. > :56:19.facts of what happened before any conclusions are made."

:56:20. > :56:23.Thank you. Look at this footage. It is a blue

:56:24. > :56:31.shark and it terrified tourists when it appeared in shallow waters off

:56:32. > :56:38.the coast of Majorca. It has been captured.

:56:39. > :56:45.Let's talk to some people who was a meter from the shark. How was it? We

:56:46. > :56:50.were on the beach all morning and our first sort of venture into the

:56:51. > :56:53.sea and Angela got up and went into the sea whilst other people seemed

:56:54. > :56:57.to be coming out of the sea carrying their children. I shouted out to her

:56:58. > :57:02.that they didn't want any part of her going in the sea so they were

:57:03. > :57:06.leaving as a joke! Then I saw this fin come past very close and very

:57:07. > :57:11.shallow water. So obviously everyone got out. There were a couple of Life

:57:12. > :57:17.Guards ushering people out quickly and then everybody on the beach

:57:18. > :57:23.itself just rushed to the water just to watch this shark swim by really.

:57:24. > :57:27.So... Were you scared? More excited than scared because I had never seen

:57:28. > :57:31.anything like it really. Obviously a lot of parents with their young

:57:32. > :57:34.children they probably had the most worry, but I don't know, maybe it's

:57:35. > :57:38.just that we don't have a great deal of nobbling about sharks. We didn't

:57:39. > :57:43.really know what they were capable of or anything. You only really hear

:57:44. > :57:48.horror stories, but it seemed calm like the way the shark swam past was

:57:49. > :57:51.fairly inoffensive to be honest with you, but just an amazing sight. It

:57:52. > :57:58.was a beautiful creature. Really. Is that what you thought

:57:59. > :58:03.when you saw it? It was our initial thought and as soon as the shark was

:58:04. > :58:07.ushered out of the area, people just started going in the sea again. It

:58:08. > :58:13.is not a common occurrence, but people didn't, I guess, didn't feel

:58:14. > :58:16.as threatened as maybe might if you were encountered a shark. But yeah,

:58:17. > :58:21.it was something you only really ever see in films. It's crazy. Thank

:58:22. > :58:25.you Tim. I'm glad you're all right. Excited, rather than scared.

:58:26. > :58:27.On the programme tomorrow, an exclusive interview

:58:28. > :58:30.with the mother of Fuselier Lee Rigby who was killed

:58:31. > :58:34.Brexit means Brexit. We did it!

:58:35. > :58:37.To pretend that it's going to be plain sailing is such

:58:38. > :58:40.knuckle-headed lunacy. Happy days are here.

:58:41. > :58:44.They have said one thing one day, another thing the next day.