28/06/2017

:00:00. > :00:12.It was two weeks ago that Grenfell Tower here

:00:13. > :00:17.in North Kensington caught fire and continued to burn.

:00:18. > :00:20.Two weeks ago at this time we brought you extraordinary

:00:21. > :00:23.stories of survival, and devastating stories

:00:24. > :00:33.of those who didn't make it out of the tower block.

:00:34. > :00:35.On that day there was shock, horror, confusion, grief.

:00:36. > :00:38.A fortnight on, we still don't know how many people died,

:00:39. > :00:41.and many who managed to escape are yet to be rehoused

:00:42. > :00:43.and are living in hotel rooms or on friend's sofas,

:00:44. > :00:48.Today we're back here in North Kensington to catch up

:00:49. > :00:52.with some of those we first met on that Wednesday, to bring you more

:00:53. > :00:54.remarkable stories of those who escaped and to find out really,

:00:55. > :01:03.We're broadcasting this morning from the Maxilla Centre -

:01:04. > :01:08.it's just across the road from Grenfell Tower.

:01:09. > :01:17.There are various things I want to show you. This wall, which I'm just

:01:18. > :01:22.walking up to now is called the Questions Wall. On here, people have

:01:23. > :01:29.written, "Where is the money going? ?" "When will it stop, people over

:01:30. > :01:37.profit? Why give everyone this type of suffering. Stop. Never forgotten.

:01:38. > :01:41.Justice for Grenfell. Real numbers 79? No way. So many questions on

:01:42. > :01:48.this wall as you walk into the social club. Over here, this is a

:01:49. > :01:54.mural that's being painted. Mark is the chap who has been painting it.

:01:55. > :02:02.This is what's called Wall Of Evidence. I don't know if you can

:02:03. > :02:06.see the words, "The truth will not be hidden, the public's public

:02:07. > :02:10.inquest. Facts." When the painting is finished here, residents who

:02:11. > :02:15.escaped from the tower that night, who witnessed what happened, are

:02:16. > :02:20.being encouraged to write their first hand accounts on here. To take

:02:21. > :02:23.ownership of what happened because some people feel so much distrust

:02:24. > :02:27.now when it comes to the authorities.

:02:28. > :02:34.Let's me take you inside the social club which actually opened that

:02:35. > :02:39.night, 2am in the morning. The owner opened it providing teas and coffees

:02:40. > :02:44.for anybody who needed to come in here for some respite. And then for

:02:45. > :02:52.two weeks effectively it has been a donation centre. Or an unofficial

:02:53. > :02:58.rescue centre. Joe told me they had 4700 boxes of donations over the

:02:59. > :03:01.last two weeks and 100 to 120 volunteers every day coming in here

:03:02. > :03:05.and working. He showed me footage. He filmed the whole room. It was

:03:06. > :03:09.full of boxes. No help from the council, he said, to sort it out.

:03:10. > :03:13.They had to do it. He is a painter and decorator by day. He has not

:03:14. > :03:16.been doing that. He has been helping out. I have got residents and people

:03:17. > :03:19.we met two weeks ago who we are going to catch up with now.

:03:20. > :03:27.We spoke to him on this programme two weeks ago as he described how

:03:28. > :03:30.he escaped from the fourth floor with his wife and his one-year-old

:03:31. > :03:40.Oluwaseun Talabi escaped from the 14th floor with his girlfriend

:03:41. > :03:49.Hello. Thank you very much for coming on our programme today.

:03:50. > :03:52.Omar Alhajali escaped from the fourteenth floor.

:03:53. > :03:57.He lost his brother Mohammad in the fire.

:03:58. > :04:03.He's here with his other brother Hashem Alhajali.

:04:04. > :04:14.We have local residents. People who grew up here and people who have

:04:15. > :04:23.helped in the last two weeks. Mahad tell our audience how you're

:04:24. > :04:30.doing. I don't know. We're still displaced. We used to have missing

:04:31. > :04:42.people. We used to have no answers. I don't know how I feel. There is no

:04:43. > :04:47.particular word that I can use to to describe how I'm feeling. Where are

:04:48. > :04:52.you and your wife living? We are moving from place to place, from

:04:53. > :04:58.house-to-house, family members, friends, wherever we can find

:04:59. > :05:02.really. We're obviously causing a disturbance wherever we go because

:05:03. > :05:05.we're unsettled and the kids are obviously making noise and some of

:05:06. > :05:10.the neighbours are not used to it so these are the kinds of things that

:05:11. > :05:14.are affecting wherever we go. Have you been offered help from the

:05:15. > :05:20.council? No. They have offered you nothing? They have offered us

:05:21. > :05:27.high-rise towers and I've expressed to them that we're petrified,

:05:28. > :05:31.traumatised and so are the kids because my oldest boy is aware of

:05:32. > :05:35.the situation in the sense whenever he sees the building he is aware of

:05:36. > :05:40.what happened and he knows his home is no longer there. So, they haven't

:05:41. > :05:46.offered us any suitable accommodation considering the

:05:47. > :05:51.situation that we have been in. They haven't offered us anything. You

:05:52. > :05:57.have been under unbelievable stress in the last two weeks. Can you give

:05:58. > :06:00.our audience a little insight into the kind of things you're being

:06:01. > :06:08.directed to do, into the kind of things you want to do? Sorry, can

:06:09. > :06:11.you repeat that again? You told me earlier people keep saying to you,

:06:12. > :06:17.you need a passport. That doesn't seem a priority to you right now.

:06:18. > :06:23.No. Tell us what your priority is. My first and fore most priority is

:06:24. > :06:28.to put a roof, a suitable accommodation over my children and

:06:29. > :06:38.my wife's head. Upon doing that, I will then seek the medical attention

:06:39. > :06:44.that we need. But it seems the council has been dragging us for the

:06:45. > :06:47.last two weeks and I have to start rearranging my priorities. I have to

:06:48. > :06:53.get medical attention for my wife and kids. They are showing reaction

:06:54. > :07:00.and stress, their health is deteriorating. You mean mentally?

:07:01. > :07:04.Physically and mentally. All of our health is deteriorating by the day

:07:05. > :07:08.and it is no fault, but the council's or the local authority

:07:09. > :07:13.because of lack of management and organisation. What do you think of

:07:14. > :07:22.the way they've helped or not helped? They haven't helped. They

:07:23. > :07:30.have been insensitive to the situation. They have not provided

:07:31. > :07:37.answers. They have not provided to anyone know, any form of suitable

:07:38. > :07:41.accommodation. So, there's nothing to say. We're still out here

:07:42. > :07:46.displaced. We have missing family, friends and neighbours and we still

:07:47. > :07:53.have no answers two weeks in. Do you feel as though you're dignity

:07:54. > :07:57.is being stripped from you? Our dignity is all we have and our

:07:58. > :08:04.dignity will never be stripped off us, but they're trying to. They're

:08:05. > :08:09.trying to separate the survivors. They're trying to cause, put a roof

:08:10. > :08:14.between the survivors who are trying to organise themselves, but all of

:08:15. > :08:20.us are traumatised, we're trying to find some sense of the

:08:21. > :08:30.unorganisation to have one voice, but the authorities are doing their

:08:31. > :08:33.best to quiet us down. What did you say, quieten you down? They are

:08:34. > :08:39.trying to silence us. Why do you feel that? I can tell. I can just

:08:40. > :08:51.feel it. They are trying to silence us. But it's not going to work

:08:52. > :08:56.though. It's not going to work. That night that you escaped, your flat

:08:57. > :09:00.was a place where firefighters brought other residents... Yeah. And

:09:01. > :09:08.you didn't all make it out of there? Yeah. His brother didn't make it

:09:09. > :09:19.out. Mohamed was brought to your flat, was he? With his brother. Yes,

:09:20. > :09:28.they moved us to his flat. An old man as well. We were waiting for

:09:29. > :09:33.long there, all of us, trying to support us. They said, "Don't worry.

:09:34. > :09:39.Don't worry." But we were waiting and waiting and no one came until

:09:40. > :09:43.the last minute. This man had to pull me back. I was dangling back

:09:44. > :09:47.from the window. This man and his brother had to pull me back in. I

:09:48. > :09:50.was trying to escape from the window with my little child. If I looked

:09:51. > :09:54.down, he could have dropped. This man and his brother had to pull me

:09:55. > :10:06.back into the flat. He tried to jump for his daughter. But I said this is

:10:07. > :10:10.not a good idea. Don't do it. Today is the first time you have met since

:10:11. > :10:20.then, is that correct? Yes, after what happened, today is the first

:10:21. > :10:24.time. Tell our audience about it. When I see him, I remember

:10:25. > :10:31.everything. Not only now, every night to be honest. I can't sleep

:10:32. > :10:42.well. I always remember. I don't think I can forget. Can any of you

:10:43. > :10:50.sleep? No. I'm physically drained. Angry, I don't know, I don't know

:10:51. > :11:00.anymore. It's hard to sleep. I sleep for two hours and I wake up and then

:11:01. > :11:05.gi to bed about six and eight again. So yeah this. Is from the fire.

:11:06. > :11:17.Where are you living now? A hotel. How is it? It's better than being in

:11:18. > :11:23.a hostel. Hospital, it is better than being in the hospital, but it

:11:24. > :11:32.is not better than being in your own house.

:11:33. > :11:35.Our reporter Ashley John Baptiste has spent some time with you Olu

:11:36. > :11:37.over the last week - as you visited the tower

:11:38. > :11:40.again and tried to begin to repair your life -

:11:41. > :11:50.it's an upsetting watch - and lasts around 9 minutes.

:11:51. > :12:16.I didn't know she was one of the people that's missing.

:12:17. > :12:53.We would always chat when we would bump into each other.

:12:54. > :13:00.Him and his sister, very respectable.

:13:01. > :13:07.A lot of people are angry about him as well.

:13:08. > :13:27.Because everybody loved him, the whole community loved him.

:13:28. > :13:45.So I have no idea how this is affecting you.

:13:46. > :13:47.I don't know if it's possible to get as close

:13:48. > :13:51.I just want to see what I've come up from.

:13:52. > :13:55.Yeah, I want to get as close as possible.

:13:56. > :14:12.It's not as strong as that night, but it brings back the memories.

:14:13. > :14:22.So it's the other side, I tied a cloth, the bedroom

:14:23. > :14:25.was on the other side, that's where I tied the cloth.

:14:26. > :14:30.It looks like something out of Syria.

:14:31. > :14:33.Like, I guarantee there's dead bodies in there right now.

:14:34. > :14:37.I feel like I can even get closer, I feel like I even want to walk

:14:38. > :14:39.inside, that's how bad it is, I feel like I actually

:14:40. > :14:43.want to walk inside, take that step again.

:14:44. > :14:46.I think it would make me happy if I could go in there.

:14:47. > :15:09.He and his family have been staying at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital

:15:10. > :15:12.since the fire but rebuilding their lives is about more

:15:13. > :15:14.than just finding a new home, it is about starting again.

:15:15. > :15:16.Today, they are trying to sort out the essentials.

:15:17. > :15:19.partner did not want us to show her on camera.

:15:20. > :15:21.So we are on the way to the Venture centre,

:15:22. > :15:25.it is a place that someone has given us a number that we can

:15:26. > :15:28.After that we are on our way to the Harrow Club.

:15:29. > :15:30.It is another organisation that has been set up.

:15:31. > :15:33.They told me they've got a box of clothes for my daughter

:15:34. > :15:39.We're going to need to go to the Westway Centre

:15:40. > :15:42.to sort out our passports, because the Red Cross

:15:43. > :15:44.are there and they said that if we just bring passport photos,

:15:45. > :15:50.they will fast-track us and we will be able

:15:51. > :15:53.to get our passports by tomorrow because we have no ID.

:15:54. > :15:56.Right now we feel like we are just a number, we are floating around,

:15:57. > :15:59.living in a hospital, it is going to be a long process

:16:00. > :16:06.So that it is like the start of getting your identity

:16:07. > :16:09.Local community centres and volunteers have been helping

:16:10. > :16:14.residents with money, clothes and food.

:16:15. > :16:17.Can you just explain why you have come to the centre,

:16:18. > :16:23.We've come to get some help, from the people that have donated

:16:24. > :16:28.money, so we just try to get help from them.

:16:29. > :16:30.Is this your money from your account?

:16:31. > :16:34.You're going to your account to get money to help people out?

:16:35. > :16:37.We are having to make it up as we go along because there

:16:38. > :16:44.I don't want to have to keep going back for money.

:16:45. > :16:46.I'm happy that people are looking to help us

:16:47. > :16:50.but I'm a hard-working guy, all of us in my family work hard,

:16:51. > :16:52.we make our own money, we don't want to feel

:16:53. > :16:58.Thank you so much, thank you very much.

:16:59. > :17:15.We're going to take passport photographs for my passport.

:17:16. > :17:18.This is the Westway Centre, it has become a key hub of support,

:17:19. > :17:22.helping survivors with their many needs including helping

:17:23. > :17:32.More than just the practical help, it is the emotional support

:17:33. > :17:37.It's become a place where locals come, share stories,

:17:38. > :17:41.Thank you, thank you so much, I appreciate it,

:17:42. > :18:06.I just feel like I saved my family, I did what I have to do.

:18:07. > :18:09.We die together or we come out together, that's just it.

:18:10. > :18:11.Mahad is a fellow survivor, he has been put up in

:18:12. > :18:28.We could not film in the hotel, but Mahad did take us inside,

:18:29. > :18:31.a small square room, with just enough space

:18:32. > :18:48.A husband and a wife and two kids in there.

:18:49. > :18:50.I have never seen a toilet that small before.

:18:51. > :18:55.My two kids and my wife and I cannot all four of us fit in this property.

:18:56. > :18:57.Even this temporary accommodation that has been given to us

:18:58. > :19:06.in the hotel is too small, crowded, claustrophobic.

:19:07. > :19:09.And if we want hot water, we have to get it from the toilet.

:19:10. > :19:13.We are deteriorating, mentally and physically deteriorating.

:19:14. > :19:16.We were living happy lives, businessmen, businesswomen, workers,

:19:17. > :19:26.The council, we haven't heard anything from them.

:19:27. > :19:30.They couldn't give us a straight answer.

:19:31. > :19:35.I want a nice house, I don't even need a new house, I don't want to...

:19:36. > :19:41.Yeah, I don't want to be in a place where they pay ?2 extra on bread.

:19:42. > :19:44.It might be nice for some people, that's fine for them.

:19:45. > :20:09.It is crazy to think that had Olu not run down

:20:10. > :20:11.from the 14th floor at Grenfell, he would not be here

:20:12. > :20:15.with his daughter, we would not have this sight of a father

:20:16. > :20:32.I've hung out with you for a bit now.

:20:33. > :20:40.You're clearly going to have a bit of trauma.

:20:41. > :20:46.How do you feel, when you're sleeping in your bed,

:20:47. > :20:48.and all you can see in bed is dead people?

:20:49. > :21:00.I feel like, when you have to leave the TV on, so you can see a bit

:21:01. > :21:04.of light when you're sleeping, so you don't have to think

:21:05. > :21:07.about that little boy who died in your room.

:21:08. > :21:18.You've got to be in my shoes to understand what I'm saying,

:21:19. > :21:35.you'll never understand what I'm saying.

:21:36. > :21:44.We are here in North Kensington in the social club, with residents,

:21:45. > :21:49.people who got out of the tower two weeks ago. People told us that are

:21:50. > :21:53.not want to be forgotten, they have so many questions. They do not

:21:54. > :21:59.necessarily feel people working there hardest to try to answer those

:22:00. > :22:05.questions. We have residents here as well. There was something your wife

:22:06. > :22:08.said that struck me, amongst many things. She was trying to get her

:22:09. > :22:19.identity back. Extreme what that means. We lost everything. All our

:22:20. > :22:25.identity, drivers license, passport, everything. You feel like you are

:22:26. > :22:34.just a number. You want to feel human again. That is what she meant.

:22:35. > :22:43.I wonder what you are thinking now and feeling now. Cannot really feel

:22:44. > :22:48.or think anything. Every part of your life is suspended. People who

:22:49. > :22:52.work cannot work, because you do not know if you will be in the same

:22:53. > :22:59.hotel that night, you get a call from the council, they ask what time

:23:00. > :23:04.you are checking out, you ring, nobody seems to know what is going

:23:05. > :23:11.on, we are expected to chase things, phone this, do that. They cannot get

:23:12. > :23:16.a single thing right. The only activity I have seen on the estate

:23:17. > :23:20.were partners and painters. They are working on the cosmetics yet again,

:23:21. > :23:26.it was cosmetics that got us into this problem. People in my half of

:23:27. > :23:30.the blog cannot access our houses, they have had to leave the doors

:23:31. > :23:36.open, but have given us these fobs, they do not work, they told us they

:23:37. > :23:39.would work from yesterday. The doors are shut, people who cannot get in

:23:40. > :23:44.cannot get in unless somebody can let them in. It is neighbours

:23:45. > :23:52.relying on neighbours, and it is not right. I worked with the action

:23:53. > :23:56.group. I would not have considered myself a member, because I was not

:23:57. > :23:59.in the tower, but since this happened, I consider myself a

:24:00. > :24:08.member, and everyone else does here as well. We spoke to you two weeks

:24:09. > :24:13.ago, what are you thinking? We have been through a mad situation, there

:24:14. > :24:18.has been a nonstop procession of media and people who claim they want

:24:19. > :24:24.to pay their respects from outside the areas, talking loudly in the

:24:25. > :24:29.street. The wounds are open. We have just spoken about this for the last

:24:30. > :24:36.two weeks. Realistically, the Council and TM only to stop treating

:24:37. > :24:43.it like a box ticking activity. How are you housing people in high rise

:24:44. > :24:47.apartments? People are being thrown out of their hotel is with hardly

:24:48. > :24:53.any notice, not being told where the next place will be. The people that

:24:54. > :24:59.are doing the most, I work with some of the volunteers, they have their

:25:00. > :25:05.own jobs and families to feed, but based and 22 hours a day join to

:25:06. > :25:10.make sure that they are helping the victims, because the tab -- the

:25:11. > :25:18.council and the TM oak or not responding quickly enough. Listening

:25:19. > :25:23.to everybody else, we not even at stage. We are being forced to move

:25:24. > :25:29.on to the next stage of thinking weight you will be free home, do you

:25:30. > :25:34.want to go back, whatever it is, and we have not got verification on who

:25:35. > :25:38.is missing, who is confirmed. We have not even been able to mourn the

:25:39. > :25:42.people we have lost. We are in a process of... It is very hard when

:25:43. > :25:48.you do not say goodbye to somebody, but it is worse when you do not know

:25:49. > :25:55.if you should say goodbye. You are doing a lot of presumptions. The

:25:56. > :26:00.data that is going out, when it is false, it is hard to take in,

:26:01. > :26:11.because everyone else knows the real number, and it is nowhere near 79.

:26:12. > :26:18.Triple it, quadruple it, maybe. On top of it, it is insulting, as they

:26:19. > :26:24.think our IQ is... How can you not expect it to be higher, when it has

:26:25. > :26:28.affected so many people? I have lost people, people on the street have

:26:29. > :26:33.lost people, you add these numbers up, it is way beyond. If we cannot

:26:34. > :26:38.go beyond that yet, I cannot think about housing. To survive, you need

:26:39. > :26:45.to continue and think about where your money is coming from. My work

:26:46. > :26:53.is in the community, I have flipped on that side, but one day I might

:26:54. > :26:55.wake up and think, I need to get my voice heard, and halfway through the

:26:56. > :27:01.day I am telling everyone, I cannot do this. My mum says, what time do

:27:02. > :27:08.we have to be here? My aunt says, I am in the Westway, and they are not.

:27:09. > :27:12.You cannot be everywhere at once, I have to focus on one thing, so I

:27:13. > :27:20.have to put my work aside. How long will that be for? I am not a

:27:21. > :27:30.resident, I have worked with the residents in 2015, when they were

:27:31. > :27:34.trying to ask given the refurbishment, and try to get a

:27:35. > :27:40.response and not being able to get any response from the TMO or the

:27:41. > :27:44.council. It is horrible, being back here, and it is horrible listening

:27:45. > :27:51.to these stories again. It makes me very angry. It is the same but was

:27:52. > :27:59.circumstances now. They are treating many more people much worse, people

:28:00. > :28:06.of all model, this is very bad. We have said that it is from the

:28:07. > :28:10.beginning, it has come to light for everybody watching on their screens,

:28:11. > :28:15.but it has been happening for years, we fought for them not to take the

:28:16. > :28:21.tower down, not to demolish our estate, but now they could have

:28:22. > :28:27.taken the tower down and re-homed everyone, it taking so people's

:28:28. > :28:34.lives. I do not know which fight would have been the stronger. Now we

:28:35. > :28:37.are fighting to keep the rest of the fans, but people do not want to

:28:38. > :28:44.leave the community, so you are left with a cemetery on your doorstep.

:28:45. > :28:50.You grew up here. It is mad. People want answers and justice. We do not

:28:51. > :28:54.want charity singles. Loads of people have said, they have raised

:28:55. > :28:58.money, but I have been contacted by people who have said, do you know

:28:59. > :29:02.any people that have been giving money? The money has been available,

:29:03. > :29:07.people have raised money, but the people are not getting it. I have

:29:08. > :29:12.been in contact with people in the area to make sure people are getting

:29:13. > :29:16.cash, and I have had to send people a certain way. The media have

:29:17. > :29:24.answers, they can tell us anything that absolves us of blame, I cannot

:29:25. > :29:28.tell us how many people made it out, who is missing, who is not, the

:29:29. > :29:32.things we want to know, but then they want to tell us about this

:29:33. > :29:39.other stuff. We are not here to hear that. Have you received the one-off

:29:40. > :29:48.payment, the emergency payment that the Government promised? We have

:29:49. > :29:52.been advised not to claim the money. Because it would affect us in the

:29:53. > :30:00.future. That is the advice we are getting. That is from local

:30:01. > :30:06.solicitors? Yes, and the group. Charities are doing their best to

:30:07. > :30:12.help us. The council and the Government messed up, they have to

:30:13. > :30:15.deal with the consequences. The people feel like the money we are

:30:16. > :30:20.getting from the charity will affect what they will get from the

:30:21. > :30:24.Government. The charity is helping us, not the Government. The

:30:25. > :30:29.suspicion is if you accept some money now, you will forfeit a bit

:30:30. > :30:36.more in the future? When the public enquiry has worked itself through.

:30:37. > :30:48.Which is not our own fault. This is negligence. It shouldn't affect what

:30:49. > :30:51.the charities are doing for us. The charities are the ones helping the

:30:52. > :31:01.most. The Government are not really helping. What about you? It's not

:31:02. > :31:05.just in terms of finance, but also in terms of accommodation,

:31:06. > :31:15.neighbours, community, family members, friends, are trying to

:31:16. > :31:21.still take people in, but I for one cannot disclose where I'm staying

:31:22. > :31:26.because it is one bedroom and I fear for the actual tenant's safety in

:31:27. > :31:29.the future. When this dust settles down, I fear there will be a

:31:30. > :31:34.backlash for anyone who stayed at someone else's house. You must

:31:35. > :31:40.understand that all of us did not have the common fear for no reason.

:31:41. > :31:45.The council, the TMO have been putting fear in their tenants in

:31:46. > :31:48.terms of making sure that they don't get aid or assistance from the

:31:49. > :31:53.neighbours or the community and if they do so, they will lose priority

:31:54. > :31:58.in terms of housing. I have had celebrities. I have had radio

:31:59. > :32:02.station members, I have had millionaires who are trying to offer

:32:03. > :32:08.me personally and for my family a place of accommodation. If I had of

:32:09. > :32:12.taken those steps up, if I had of taken that opportunity, not only

:32:13. > :32:18.would I have left behind all those that are missing and all those that

:32:19. > :32:21.are affected, but I have lost my rights and it is a doubty of care

:32:22. > :32:27.that the council has to look after me. If you accept help from someone

:32:28. > :32:31.else, the council can say you have got that help. You're not in the

:32:32. > :32:36.queue anymore. It is just the charity and the churches and the

:32:37. > :32:39.mosques give you ?3,000 then that ?3,000... You don't have to answer

:32:40. > :32:43.this because it is a personal question. How are you surviving

:32:44. > :32:50.financially from the charity, from charity? From mosques, charities,

:32:51. > :32:55.churches, individuals, let's put emphasise on that, individuals and

:32:56. > :32:59.people are approaching us and like this gentleman said, we know for

:33:00. > :33:04.instance, I feel that I'm OK with my family in terms of finance and that

:33:05. > :33:07.we can now share with our neighbours, share with our friends.

:33:08. > :33:13.So for instance when I have had the information not to sign anymore

:33:14. > :33:18.paperwork from the Joseph round tee foundation in terms of money because

:33:19. > :33:21.it could affect your compensation in the future. I informed Olly and most

:33:22. > :33:24.of the survivors are prepared to give you whatever you may need and

:33:25. > :33:27.that we are all here as one family and that the community and the

:33:28. > :33:35.church and the mosques and individuals are there for us. OK. I

:33:36. > :33:39.work in construction. They offered me a place to stay for six months

:33:40. > :33:46.for free in Elephant Castle, but I turned it down. My daughter goes to

:33:47. > :33:55.school around here. She won't travel from Elephant Castle down here. We

:33:56. > :33:58.are not taking it. I mean that offer from your employers, that's coming

:33:59. > :34:02.from the right place, isn't it, even though it didn't work for you, it is

:34:03. > :34:07.because they want to help. Yes. We will talk much more. Honestly, we

:34:08. > :34:16.have got so much time and that's why we're here. You're OK talking to us.

:34:17. > :34:20.Of course. The only way we're getting anything done is by shaming

:34:21. > :34:25.the council. The only way I managed to speak to the Director of Finance

:34:26. > :34:30.at Kensington and Chelsea, the way I did that, I bluffed my way on the

:34:31. > :34:33.switchboard by friending to be the former leader of the Conservative

:34:34. > :34:39.group and boy was he shocked when he got through to me. I explained to

:34:40. > :34:43.him who I was. I did express my outage on behalf of myself and

:34:44. > :34:47.fellow residents at the time. He promised he would have money out.

:34:48. > :34:51.Even the ?500 that's been promised for people who didn't live in the

:34:52. > :34:54.tower, but lived in the blocks affected, they are not getting that

:34:55. > :34:58.at the moment. I'm sick of having to argue with staff and they are saying

:34:59. > :35:03.people who are single are only entitled to ?260. I said when did

:35:04. > :35:08.this policy come in? Who wrote it? Where is it written down? We can't

:35:09. > :35:11.tell you. We will come back, Joe, we have got more time. Honestly, we

:35:12. > :35:14.have. That's why we're here. We will talk more and we have got some

:35:15. > :35:19.politicians that we will talk to later and potentially we are talking

:35:20. > :35:20.to the Housing Minister as well, potentially, the Government's

:35:21. > :35:23.Housing Minister at 10.30am. Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

:35:24. > :35:27.with a summary of today's news. Labour is to force a vote

:35:28. > :35:30.on an amendment to the Queen's Speech calling for an end to cuts

:35:31. > :35:33.in the police and The party is also demanding

:35:34. > :35:41.an end to the 1% cap The Conservatives say only

:35:42. > :35:45.they will deliver the economy needed to properly fund the

:35:46. > :35:46.emergency services. Prosecutors will announce this

:35:47. > :35:49.morning whether anyone will be charged with criminal offences

:35:50. > :35:51.in relation to the Hillsborough The families of the

:35:52. > :35:55.victims will gather 96 Liverpool fans died

:35:56. > :36:01.when the terraces at the Sheffield ground became overcrowded

:36:02. > :36:06.during the 1989 FA cup semi-final. Computer systems around the world

:36:07. > :36:09.have been hit by a major cyber-attack affecting banks,

:36:10. > :36:11.retailers, energy firms The companies have been

:36:12. > :36:15.told their computers will remain Experts who have examined the code

:36:16. > :36:20.say it's more sophisticated than the virus used in a global

:36:21. > :36:23.attack last month, More questions have been raised

:36:24. > :36:29.about the refurbishment This programme has learned

:36:30. > :36:36.the specifications for the work were changed, and cheaper more

:36:37. > :36:41.flammable cladding The BBC has also learned that

:36:42. > :36:45.London Fire Brigade had warned all 33 of the area's councils

:36:46. > :36:47.about potential risks of external cladding on tower

:36:48. > :37:01.blocks the month before. Sinn Fein has accused

:37:02. > :37:03.the Democratic Unionist Party of failing to give any ground

:37:04. > :37:06.in talks to restore devolved They say there had been no movement

:37:07. > :37:10.on the rights of Irish speakers But the DUP has insisted it has no

:37:11. > :37:14.red lines and accused Sinn Fein of being involved

:37:15. > :37:16.in a high-wire act. The deadline for reaching a deal

:37:17. > :37:25.is tomorrow afternoon. A study of public opinion suggests

:37:26. > :37:27.that half the population think the Government should increase taxes and

:37:28. > :37:31.increase spending on public services. The national centre for

:37:32. > :37:35.social research report found there was a more traditional attitude to

:37:36. > :37:36.national security with more than half wanting strong powers on

:37:37. > :37:41.terror. That's a summary of

:37:42. > :37:43.the latest BBC News. Here's some sport

:37:44. > :37:47.now with Will Perry. A sense of deja-vu as England

:37:48. > :37:49.were beaten once again England's under-21s

:37:50. > :37:52.were denied a place Nathan Redmond's spot-kick

:37:53. > :37:58.was saved as the Germans It follows winning shoot-outs

:37:59. > :38:06.for Germans over England at the 1990 Investigators have been

:38:07. > :38:13.told a plan for England to play a friendly in Thailand

:38:14. > :38:16.to win backing for their 2018 World Cup bid was

:38:17. > :38:25."a form of bribery". A former FA Chairman made

:38:26. > :38:27.the admission when interviewed during an inquiry into the 2018

:38:28. > :38:30.and 2022 World Cup bids. England's women bounced back

:38:31. > :38:32.from their opening defeat by India to make their highest

:38:33. > :38:34.Women's World Cup total as they thrashed Pakistan by 107

:38:35. > :38:37.runs with centuries from Nat Siver And five days ahead of Wimbledon,

:38:38. > :38:44.not the weather we want to see, the likes of Novak Djokovic

:38:45. > :38:47.try to get some last minute grass court preparation

:38:48. > :38:49.in but the forecast at Easbourne is better today and the

:38:50. > :39:03.covers are coming off. Thank you very much. Good morning.

:39:04. > :39:11.We are in North Kensington. We have got residents behind us. We have got

:39:12. > :39:15.Joe and Amanda and Simone and Lunar the dog. We have met up again with

:39:16. > :39:27.Mahad Egal who was on our programme a couple of weeks ago.

:39:28. > :39:32.We We're here because the people here tell us they don't want to be

:39:33. > :39:35.forgotten and they have so many questions and they feel perhaps

:39:36. > :39:39.they're being pushed in certain directions that they don't want to

:39:40. > :39:44.be pushed in and they want to do things at their own pace, but with

:39:45. > :39:47.the help from the authorities which they really, from what they have

:39:48. > :39:51.said to us this morning, they do not feel that they are getting. You know

:39:52. > :39:56.that the fire happened in the early hours of that Wednesday morning. It

:39:57. > :40:02.took until Friday before the Prime Minister, Theresa May, met

:40:03. > :40:09.residents. Talking again to people two weeks on.

:40:10. > :40:14.BOOING Talking to people today two weeks

:40:15. > :40:20.on, the response is still, it seems, pretty chaotic.

:40:21. > :40:25.So many questions. Let me introduce some politicians.

:40:26. > :40:29.We don't have a representative of the Government here today. Surprise.

:40:30. > :40:38.We may later on in the programme. We may later on in the programme. We

:40:39. > :40:40.will join the DUP! I don't know if that would help! I don't know with

:40:41. > :40:46.that would help. John Healey is Labour's

:40:47. > :40:47.housing spokesman. Emma Dent Coad is the local Labour

:40:48. > :40:50.MP, and until recently She was elected to Parliament just a

:40:51. > :41:00.month ago. And also with us is the Bishop

:41:01. > :41:04.of Kensington, Graham Tomlin. Tony Devenish is the area's

:41:05. > :41:16.Conservative Assembly Member. You will know that there is no one

:41:17. > :41:21.here from Kensington and Chelsea broUnl. We have an empty chair for

:41:22. > :41:26.them over there. We have phoned them a number of times in the last week.

:41:27. > :41:31.They were unable to find us anyone today so hence that empty chair.

:41:32. > :41:37.Where do you think we are two weeks on? I will start with you Emma as

:41:38. > :41:40.the local MP. Well, it's a hell of a lot better than it was two weeks

:41:41. > :41:44.ago, but there are still problems every day. I'm still hearing about

:41:45. > :41:47.problems every day. There seems to be a terribly good system if they

:41:48. > :41:51.come to me, I can pass them on to people who seem to be dealing with

:41:52. > :41:54.them, but a lot of people I know who still aren't being looked after as

:41:55. > :41:58.they should and it is appalling. It's no surprise to me at all that

:41:59. > :42:03.you have an empty chair there. Having worked on the council for 11

:42:04. > :42:07.years, the depth of incompetence is mind-boggling. Mind-boggling. You

:42:08. > :42:13.know we're still holding them to account every single day. I think

:42:14. > :42:17.you were on Kensington and Chelsea housing scrutiny committee, is that

:42:18. > :42:20.what it was called, housing scrutiny committee which overseas safety

:42:21. > :42:24.issues until a couple of years ago. Were you able to raise concerns

:42:25. > :42:29.about Grenfell? That issue didn't come up when I was on the committee.

:42:30. > :42:32.There were problems about the building's maintenance and there was

:42:33. > :42:35.money set aside. There was a decision to refurbish which people

:42:36. > :42:41.welcomed. They had no idea what the details were going to be, so that

:42:42. > :42:44.wasn't my remit at that tile. As a minority party councillor, you don't

:42:45. > :42:48.have much of a saismt you can ask questions, but you are not the

:42:49. > :42:52.decision maker. I think you were a member of the tenant management

:42:53. > :42:55.organisation, the Kensington and Chelsea management organisation when

:42:56. > :42:59.the refurbishment was discussed. What kind of questions were raised

:43:00. > :43:05.then? What concerns were raised then sth I was off the committee by then.

:43:06. > :43:08.I came off in 2012, issues about the maintenance and the boilers breaking

:43:09. > :43:13.down and leaky windows, has been discussed. I meant the tenant

:43:14. > :43:19.organisation management? The same. I wasn't on the board at that time,

:43:20. > :43:21.but it is not to say that people aren't accountable for decisions

:43:22. > :43:25.made, but the accountability between the Connell and the TMO is far more

:43:26. > :43:28.complicated than it should be frankly. People should stand up and

:43:29. > :43:32.take responsibility. The person who signed the contract should have read

:43:33. > :43:38.the contract and know what they were signing and if they didn't, that's

:43:39. > :43:43.down to them. Tony Daffenish, you are the local

:43:44. > :43:47.Conservative member for the area, what have you done to protect people

:43:48. > :43:51.who live here? Well, there is three things I'd like to start by saying,

:43:52. > :43:54.first of all, our thoughts are with the people who have been hurt,

:43:55. > :43:59.injured and killed during this awful, awful incident, but since it

:44:00. > :44:01.started, London councils of all political persuasions have got

:44:02. > :44:07.together and there is a substantial team now of officers dealing with

:44:08. > :44:12.this issue. Where are they? Do you answer the question? That's on

:44:13. > :44:16.going. If the gentleman over there has any specific issues he wants

:44:17. > :44:22.dealt with, he can write to me and I'm dealing directly... We have to

:44:23. > :44:26.chase you once again. We have a team of officers dealing with these

:44:27. > :44:30.issues. I should also stress it is an ongoing police investigation. I'm

:44:31. > :44:33.not going to jump to conclusions. The Prime Minister said we will get

:44:34. > :44:41.to the bottom of these issues, but it is a huge issue. We all know

:44:42. > :44:46.that. I've got a lot to say on the genocide of things. I'm one of the

:44:47. > :44:50.residents who was at Downing Street as well. What we need from you and

:44:51. > :44:55.don't take this personally, we need you to talk to us like a human

:44:56. > :44:59.being, not an MP. That's the problem right now because these scripted

:45:00. > :45:04.answers is not doing what we need to hear. It's bigger than that right

:45:05. > :45:07.now and it's a lot deeper than that. So if you're going to be asked a

:45:08. > :45:10.question, have some decency to answer it as a human being,

:45:11. > :45:11.otherwise there is no point in you being here.

:45:12. > :45:22.APPLAUSE We are losing trust. We cannot have

:45:23. > :45:29.cute sitting here, talking to us in that way, because we have lost trust

:45:30. > :45:34.from everyone else. There has been a massive loss of trust. The Prime

:45:35. > :45:38.Minister and the council leaders have said that, it is a terrible

:45:39. > :45:43.incident, we have apologised, we will did he do to get to the bottom

:45:44. > :45:53.of what happened. We have a team of people who fear. People died, people

:45:54. > :46:01.burned. We have -- we need answers. We know that you know things that

:46:02. > :46:06.you have been told not to tell us. A lot of these politicians seem to

:46:07. > :46:17.have this PR status about them, it is all about fulfilling PR for their

:46:18. > :46:21.office. Thank you for coming, because the media attention is

:46:22. > :46:25.focused on the politicians and so on, and at the heart of it we are

:46:26. > :46:28.forgetting the people that matter. They are the people that suffered.

:46:29. > :46:36.In terms of the Government response, I know from being at the tower, to

:46:37. > :46:43.this day, these agencies are the ones coming in at 9am and clocking

:46:44. > :46:50.out at 5p, but we are eschewed beating urgent food and aid at 3am.

:46:51. > :46:56.That is not correct. My officers work all weekend. You have not been

:46:57. > :46:59.speaking to the hundred plus survivors I have been speaking to.

:47:00. > :47:05.You have not heard the traumatising stories I have heard. You were not

:47:06. > :47:10.there when one person was shipped off to a local hotel which was 15

:47:11. > :47:17.stories tall after being pulled out of a burning tower. How pathetic.

:47:18. > :47:23.Response? I will bring in John Healey, laser -- Labour's housing

:47:24. > :47:26.spokesman. You were a housing minister in the last Labour

:47:27. > :47:37.Government, do you know White House were clad when you were in office?

:47:38. > :47:43.Somewhere clad for making the build for the flat is cheaper. Some were

:47:44. > :47:48.clad as part of a big overhaul of a big investment we put in to upgrade

:47:49. > :47:56.a lot of social housing, proper bathrooms, new kitchens, double

:47:57. > :48:00.glazing. It was part of a number of things, but that is some time ago.

:48:01. > :48:06.They have begun to be much clearer warnings about a system that is

:48:07. > :48:09.failing. A system of building controls and checks, the clearest

:48:10. > :48:13.warnings were in the commonest reports of four years ago to

:48:14. > :48:18.Government. There were warnings during the last Labour Government

:48:19. > :48:23.from 2000. The clearest came after two other fatal fires in London and

:48:24. > :48:30.Southampton. This is a failure of the current system. My priority and

:48:31. > :48:33.why I am back here again is first of all to support Emma, the new local

:48:34. > :48:37.Labour MP who has been working really hard to try to make sure that

:48:38. > :48:42.some of what you are not getting, you are getting, and second, we are

:48:43. > :48:48.being told things in Parliament about the information that you are

:48:49. > :48:55.getting, the financial assistance you are getting, the promise of free

:48:56. > :48:58.housing within three weeks, the fact that we have been told that every

:48:59. > :49:02.family has got an individual keyword, and then I am told by other

:49:03. > :49:12.people that they may have had a letter but they have not met them. I

:49:13. > :49:20.have some more questions. Before we can move on into this issue of

:49:21. > :49:23.making sure that people are getting help, the basic fundamentals are not

:49:24. > :49:27.being done. We have not been given any form of structural support to

:49:28. > :49:37.gather all residents from the tower block together. If the basics are

:49:38. > :49:42.not in place, what are the main basics that we are being told are in

:49:43. > :49:47.place but you think they are not? The information on the Government

:49:48. > :49:56.website matches the information that is on the Grenfell website. Because

:49:57. > :50:05.they do not. The Government website makes more promises. It says anyone

:50:06. > :50:07.over 18 in any of the tower flats is entitled to a ?500 payment. There is

:50:08. > :50:14.no mention of that in the RBKC website. We are meant to chase, we

:50:15. > :50:19.are meant to come down to Westway, from where ever you have been

:50:20. > :50:24.placed, make your own way down, the only people who are helping us are

:50:25. > :50:28.the charities. I attended a meeting at Kensington and Chelsea College,

:50:29. > :50:31.council staff promised they would be there to listen to local charities

:50:32. > :50:35.and hear how they could help coordinate the efforts, but nobody

:50:36. > :50:40.turned up. The precious snowflakes felt it was too risky for them to

:50:41. > :50:45.come into the area, even though nobody knew they were coming. The

:50:46. > :50:52.council went AWOL immediately afterwards. They still are. That is

:50:53. > :50:57.why the Government has had to step in. I am going down to the Westway

:50:58. > :51:00.with Emma in a minute, is that the point you are supposed to be able to

:51:01. > :51:10.go to to get information? Where do you go? Apart from websites? To get

:51:11. > :51:17.the information you need, the help you need? And a plan for what is

:51:18. > :51:29.going to happen, where do you go for that? Bring all of us together that

:51:30. > :51:37.survived and ask what we did. Nobody has put us together. Nobody has put

:51:38. > :51:45.the survivors together. They should ask, what can we do for you? White

:51:46. > :51:49.are you getting messages at Parliament? Why are you not hear

:51:50. > :51:56.doing the nitty-gritty when this is your country to be running? This is

:51:57. > :52:06.your mess, this is your civilians, your citizens. These are people who

:52:07. > :52:14.elected you. You need to say, look, we do not even have a single help.

:52:15. > :52:21.You have not even put the survivors together. We organised that through

:52:22. > :52:35.charities, church and mosques, the community. They were asking on the

:52:36. > :52:42.road, who is a survivor? Not only did we survive the tragedy, watched

:52:43. > :52:48.the tragedy, we had our details used by criminals, just like the

:52:49. > :52:54.criminals from housing, to get the funds that are entitled to us. These

:52:55. > :53:01.colour wristbands that could be forwarded by anyone. We were

:53:02. > :53:06.approached by police and CID, telling me to calm down when I am

:53:07. > :53:12.asking for a copy of the documents I signed when I was traumatised. I

:53:13. > :53:18.said, I am here demanding the paperwork I have signed the week I

:53:19. > :53:23.was traumatised, just to see a copy of it, or at least give me some idea

:53:24. > :53:28.of what I have done, because I have no idea. They were being very hard

:53:29. > :53:38.about it, negative. Thank you very much, I will bring in the Bishop of

:53:39. > :53:44.Kensington in a moment. I want to speak to all of you. I want to speak

:53:45. > :53:49.to the moral compass of each one of you. I did not live in Grenfell, I

:53:50. > :53:57.was in a nurse that front to help these people. There was nothing on

:53:58. > :54:02.me obligated to help. When you come into the scenarios, asking the

:54:03. > :54:10.questions about what is needed, you have a family, you have a mother, a

:54:11. > :54:16.daughter, whatever, what would you think these people need? There is a

:54:17. > :54:21.master pressure and in this area, this is not going to take a few

:54:22. > :54:28.shows, a few meetings. This is years of work. I have been blessed by two

:54:29. > :54:35.psychologists calling me, but that is because of my label as a nurse.

:54:36. > :54:40.There are people who have not had anyone approach them and say, how

:54:41. > :54:48.are you doing? Not, what is the basic? You know the basic. I am

:54:49. > :54:58.asking you respectfully, check your moral compass. Forget your label of

:54:59. > :55:03.MP, human. What does a human basically need? Then you will go

:55:04. > :55:11.forward. Then you will gain the respect and understanding of these

:55:12. > :55:19.people. I know you are delaying your next meeting. You are dead right. We

:55:20. > :55:29.have a responsibility to make sure that what you need, the basic human

:55:30. > :55:35.help to deal with this huge disruption and a lot of people who

:55:36. > :55:39.have lost loved ones as well can get through this and get your lives back

:55:40. > :55:45.together again. We all have a part to play in this. I am here because I

:55:46. > :55:54.want to check what we are being told in Parliament is really happening.

:55:55. > :56:00.The really important point is, this is not just about the first or

:56:01. > :56:04.second week. When Labour was in Government before, I had to bang

:56:05. > :56:10.heads together in Government to cut will donate the recovery from big

:56:11. > :56:14.floods in 2007, different part of the country, people lost their

:56:15. > :56:19.homes, some lost their lives. That went on for months and months and

:56:20. > :56:27.months. The pub and did not go when the media moved on. That is what

:56:28. > :56:37.will happen here. One of the things that ever will do as your MP is make

:56:38. > :56:48.sure that does happen. It had better hurry up, because there are a lot of

:56:49. > :56:54.words, and we two weeks on. You met Theresa May, what words of comfort

:56:55. > :56:57.are you able to give as a Bishop and from the experience you have had of

:56:58. > :57:06.talking to people in this community over the last two weeks? In those

:57:07. > :57:10.conversations it was important for us, the first few days the council

:57:11. > :57:15.was fairly invisible, the Government messages were confused, we needed to

:57:16. > :57:19.do what we could to open up a conversation between local residents

:57:20. > :57:25.and the Government. That is what we tried to do. I was not the leader, I

:57:26. > :57:28.just enabled it to happen. We needed messages to get from people like

:57:29. > :57:34.those gathered here today to be heard by people who had the power to

:57:35. > :57:39.make some decisions about it. As we have seen and heard, the response

:57:40. > :57:45.has been patchy, but you are right, what we need is not just words, but

:57:46. > :57:49.action. We need a complete rebuilding of trust. That is the big

:57:50. > :57:55.thing that has struck me. Listening to people here, this tragedy has not

:57:56. > :57:58.just come into a vacuum, it is part of a long story of people in this

:57:59. > :58:03.area of feeling that their voices have not been heard, that promises

:58:04. > :58:08.have been made that have not been fulfilled, so there is a breakdown

:58:09. > :58:15.of trust. Societies need trust, and trust needs to be rebuilt, and it

:58:16. > :58:21.will take a long time. Barbara, go ahead. How come you people are only

:58:22. > :58:32.hearing this two years down the road? I am sorry if you have not

:58:33. > :58:37.seen me, I have been out every day. White are you only hearing it now?

:58:38. > :58:41.That empty chair says a lot about Kensington and Chelsea Council. They

:58:42. > :58:49.should hang their heads in shame, every single one of them. The leader

:58:50. > :58:55.of the borough council, you bumped into him in the last few days. I

:58:56. > :59:04.went to the Westway to get my logbook, and I bumped into him. I

:59:05. > :59:08.approached him and said, evil man. For all of his interviews, he did

:59:09. > :59:15.not act like he cared. He has done nothing for us. I said, you have to

:59:16. > :59:24.come out more, should the people you care. And he is not here today. I

:59:25. > :59:28.told him, you need to come out more, and he is not here. I told him he

:59:29. > :59:34.did not care, and he has shown that he does not care. We will not have a

:59:35. > :59:36.representative of the Government with us in the next hour of the

:59:37. > :59:52.programme, I am also hearing. In 2014, when the original

:59:53. > :59:55.renovation plan was approved, he issued a statement to the highest

:59:56. > :00:01.band of council tax payers in this borough, due to a careful management

:00:02. > :00:06.of finances, he issued a ?100 rebate to those residents. The same year he

:00:07. > :00:10.scrimped over the additional ?5,000 it would have taken to make the

:00:11. > :00:17.cladding at Grenfell safe. So where is he? That is the reason he is not

:00:18. > :00:26.coming down. We have another hour, I promise we will be back with you. We

:00:27. > :00:30.are here in Kensington. 20th of June, we are here to hear about

:00:31. > :00:36.residents two weeks after dozens of people were killed and hundreds left

:00:37. > :00:39.homeless after the high-rise fire that went through Grenfell so

:00:40. > :00:42.rapidly. We have been asking people how they are doing.

:00:43. > :00:46.We have missing family, friends and neighbours

:00:47. > :00:49.and we still have no answers two weeks in.

:00:50. > :00:52.They have offered us high-rise towers and I've expressed to them

:00:53. > :01:05.Many feel let down by the authorities.

:01:06. > :01:07.It's constantly we're expected to chase things.

:01:08. > :01:11.Go here, phone this, queue here, do that.

:01:12. > :01:14.I just found it really upsetting and it makes me very, very angry.

:01:15. > :01:16.It's the same, but it's worse circumstances now, but they're

:01:17. > :01:21.treating many more people much worse.

:01:22. > :01:28.And the council is accused of a chaotic response.

:01:29. > :01:35.Having worked on the council for 11 years the depth of incompetence is

:01:36. > :01:39.absolutely mind-boggling. It's a terrible incident. We've apologised

:01:40. > :01:42.and we will continue to get to the bottom of what actually happened. In

:01:43. > :01:50.the meantime we have a substantial team of people who are actually

:01:51. > :01:59.here. Forget your label of MP, human. What

:02:00. > :02:02.does a human basically need? Then you will go forward. Then you will

:02:03. > :02:08.gain the respect and understanding of these people.

:02:09. > :02:13.APPLAUSE More questions are raised about the

:02:14. > :02:18.cladding as this programme learns that during last year's

:02:19. > :02:22.refurbishment of Grenfell Tower cheaper, more flammable cladding was

:02:23. > :02:38.used. We will bring you the details in about half an hour's time.

:02:39. > :02:42.OK. We have lost our connection to Victoria, we will bring you an

:02:43. > :02:43.update on the news and we will be back to them in Kennington for more

:02:44. > :02:47.on the Grenfell Tower disaster. Labour is to force a vote

:02:48. > :02:50.on an amendment to the Queen's Speech calling for an end to cuts

:02:51. > :02:53.in the police and The party is also demanding

:02:54. > :03:03.an end to the 1% cap The Conservatives say only

:03:04. > :03:07.they will deliver the economy needed to properly fund the

:03:08. > :03:09.emergency services. Prosecutors will announce this

:03:10. > :03:11.morning whether anyone will be charged with criminal offences

:03:12. > :03:13.in relation to the Hillsborough The families of the

:03:14. > :03:16.victims will gather 96 Liverpool fans died

:03:17. > :03:19.when the terraces at the Sheffield ground became overcrowded

:03:20. > :03:24.during the 1989 FA Cup semi-final. Computer systems around the world

:03:25. > :03:27.have been hit by a major cyber-attack affecting banks,

:03:28. > :03:28.retailers, energy firms The companies have been

:03:29. > :03:33.told their computers will remain Experts who have examined the code

:03:34. > :03:37.say it's more sophisticated than the virus used in a global

:03:38. > :03:39.attack last month, More questions have been raised

:03:40. > :03:46.about the refurbishment This programme has learned

:03:47. > :03:49.the specifications for the work were changed, and cheaper more

:03:50. > :03:51.flammable cladding The BBC has also learned that

:03:52. > :04:02.London Fire Brigade had warned all 33 of the area's councils

:04:03. > :04:04.about potential risks of external cladding on tower

:04:05. > :04:17.blocks the month before. A painless sticking plaster flu jab

:04:18. > :04:23.has passed important safety tests on the trial in people. It has

:04:24. > :04:27.microneedles on its adhesive side. Most of the 100 volunteers who took

:04:28. > :04:32.part in the study said the patch was painless. Experts say it should help

:04:33. > :04:37.more people get immunised including those who are scared of injections.

:04:38. > :04:39.Further tests are needed to get the patch approved for widespread use.

:04:40. > :04:49.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30am.

:04:50. > :04:58.Once again, England have lost the semi-final of a football

:04:59. > :05:04.This time it was the under-21s European Championship.

:05:05. > :05:06.England came from a goal down to take the lead

:05:07. > :05:09.But the Germans equalised and it went to penalties -

:05:10. > :05:12.Abraham's was saved - and so was Nathan Redmond's -

:05:13. > :05:16.and they follow the fate of the senior teams in 1990 and 1996.

:05:17. > :05:22.We are been practising for weeks, but the two players that you would

:05:23. > :05:26.put odds on to save every time, their goalkeeper makes a great save.

:05:27. > :05:29.It has been a real team effort and we can be pleased with a lot of

:05:30. > :05:31.things we've done and in the enwe've lost on a penalty shoot-out and next

:05:32. > :05:35.time we'll need to be better for it. A plan for England to play

:05:36. > :05:37.a friendly in Thailand to win backing for their 2018 World Cup bid

:05:38. > :05:40.was "a form of bribery", It was criticised in Fifa's

:05:41. > :05:47.investigation into alleged corruption into the bidding process

:05:48. > :05:50.for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups. England's cricketers

:05:51. > :05:53.thrashed Pakistan to get their Women's World Cup campaign

:05:54. > :05:55.back on track. Natalie Sivver and captain

:05:56. > :05:57.Heather Knight both hit their first one-day international

:05:58. > :06:01.centuries as England reached Pakistan never got close,

:06:02. > :06:04.the rain intervened, I'll have the sports

:06:05. > :06:10.headlines at 10.30am. Thank you very much.

:06:11. > :06:27.It's 10.05am. This is where people come for drinks

:06:28. > :06:34.at night, but for the past two weeks it has been an unofficial rescue

:06:35. > :06:41.centre. Joe Walsh the guy that runs it, opened at 2am and was providing

:06:42. > :06:44.tea and coffee, and since then it became a hub where people just

:06:45. > :06:50.brought loads and loads of stuff to help people from the tower. At one

:06:51. > :06:53.point they had 100 to 120 volunteers each day trying to work through the

:06:54. > :06:56.boxes. They asked for help from the council to distribute stuch. That

:06:57. > :07:01.wasn't forthcoming, so they did it themselves. Joe, is not opening the

:07:02. > :07:05.social club at night because he is so busy during the day. He is not

:07:06. > :07:10.complaining about that, but he hasn't taken any takings for two

:07:11. > :07:14.weeks because he is helping, like so many other people are helping in

:07:15. > :07:20.this community. This morning, we're here, two weeks on, to catch up with

:07:21. > :07:24.people that we met two weeks ago. Survivors, people who did manage to

:07:25. > :07:27.get out. We've got residents here who have been working their

:07:28. > :07:32.backsides off frankly to try and help in their local community.

:07:33. > :07:40.You'll notice that we've, a couple of chairs here now, empty chairs.

:07:41. > :07:50.This is a photograph of the leader of the Kensington and Chelsea

:07:51. > :07:56.Borough Council. There is Lunar, Joe's dog. Neither

:07:57. > :08:00.were able to join us today, after requests, but we are told we will be

:08:01. > :08:02.able to talk to the Housing Minister, representative of the

:08:03. > :08:10.Conservative Government in the next hour of the programme. Now,

:08:11. > :08:13.Conservative Assembly Member, Tony Deafenish has stayed here because

:08:14. > :08:22.residents would like to talk to him further. Go ahead. Do talk to this

:08:23. > :08:25.Conservative Assembly Member. Personally, I just feel like - I

:08:26. > :08:29.understand that you have a role to play as an MP, I want you to take

:08:30. > :08:34.that hat off and just wear your human hat in this. I understand, you

:08:35. > :08:37.won't get t because you don't live here, you're not living here, but

:08:38. > :08:42.these people are living here. I have to live it. I have to walk past here

:08:43. > :08:45.daily. I have not been able to go to my job to service my patients

:08:46. > :08:50.because I am so affected by what I saw that night. Now, I understand,

:08:51. > :08:55.you didn't see, but just try to imagine and you're still not there,

:08:56. > :08:58.so you have to just work from a human, all this Parliament said this

:08:59. > :09:01.and they're picking people to go to Theresa May, they're lining up,

:09:02. > :09:07.yesterday I happened to go past and I saw the British Red Cross out here

:09:08. > :09:13.to see Prince Charles. I'm confused because I didn't see them on day

:09:14. > :09:18.one. Let Mr Deafenish respond. You're speaking as a Conservative

:09:19. > :09:21.Assembly Member, but you're being asked questions as representatives

:09:22. > :09:25.of the Government. I live ten minutes away and I have been down

:09:26. > :09:29.each day as well. I was here with the Mayor of London at 11am on the

:09:30. > :09:34.first day with the London fire commissioner. You are right, I can't

:09:35. > :09:36.imagine the horror you're going through, personally, it's terrible

:09:37. > :09:39.and the Government right from the Prime Minister down has apologised

:09:40. > :09:43.for the early response that was poor. But I can tell you now, there

:09:44. > :09:47.are hundreds of people here helping you and if there is a specific issue

:09:48. > :09:50.that you're not getting help on, your point was the most important

:09:51. > :09:55.earlier when you said off air the reality is that there will be needs

:09:56. > :09:58.and help will be required here, Health Service, help particularly

:09:59. > :10:02.for years to come and the Government, and the GLA, the London

:10:03. > :10:07.Assembly, the mayor, we all understand that and as a London

:10:08. > :10:11.borough-wide response now, it is not just the local borough, it is

:10:12. > :10:15.Labour, Conservative, Independent, across London, there is hundreds of

:10:16. > :10:19.local Government offices and councillors helping now. These

:10:20. > :10:24.people yesterday wrote to the Prime Minister about the public inquiry.

:10:25. > :10:28.You talk about trust and trying rebuild trust and the importance of

:10:29. > :10:31.that. These people wrote to the Prime Minister the day before

:10:32. > :10:35.yesterday, to ask to make requests about the public inquiry. The Prime

:10:36. > :10:40.Minister didn't reply to that letter. The Prime Minister went to

:10:41. > :10:44.the Daily Telegraph and told The Daily Telegraph she wasn't going to

:10:45. > :10:49.uphold one of the requests in that letter. So, how can you talk about

:10:50. > :10:53.trust being rebuilt and another thing, the tenant management

:10:54. > :10:56.organisation which is run by the Conservative council here, yesterday

:10:57. > :11:00.changed the locks on a community centre which is being used every day

:11:01. > :11:05.for art therapy for children. It's full of children and volunteers

:11:06. > :11:09.every day and they went, they went and they changed the locks. This has

:11:10. > :11:14.been the place that these people have been able to meet in this the

:11:15. > :11:21.evening. You're still losing trust. OK. Respond to that and I'm going to

:11:22. > :11:25.bring in Zed. I have not heard of that point and it is disturbing and

:11:26. > :11:31.I will look into that when I get out of this meeting.

:11:32. > :11:36.Zed. Listen, I was one of the local residents who met with Theresa May,

:11:37. > :11:40.three times now, the first time was very rushed. There was an urgent

:11:41. > :11:46.need to leave due to security concerns. Now, she had all of this

:11:47. > :11:50.police around her and she had guys in suits and looking like topnotch

:11:51. > :11:53.security, we were locked in the church, the gates were locked, the

:11:54. > :11:56.security concerns weren't massive. If the conversation needed to be

:11:57. > :12:00.finished, it could have been finished, but it was a conscious

:12:01. > :12:04.decision that the security risk was too high and she had to leave. It

:12:05. > :12:08.was a very mixed group of people that attendedment some victims, some

:12:09. > :12:12.local residents, some support workers and charity people and

:12:13. > :12:14.people from the church as well, but genuinely from my point of view,

:12:15. > :12:21.everything discussed with Theresa May at the time is a way used to

:12:22. > :12:26.gather information and rush brush more and more under the carpet.

:12:27. > :12:30.That's the response. We're 14 days in and we still, your empty

:12:31. > :12:36.apologies mean nothing. It means nothing to me. I don't want to speak

:12:37. > :12:39.on behalf of everybody here. It probably means nothing to them as

:12:40. > :12:44.well. Go ahead. The Prime Minister came and she undertook a number of

:12:45. > :12:50.actions. Within two days, it was too late and she has admitted that. On

:12:51. > :12:57.the Friday, she announced the ?5 million fund to start the actions.

:12:58. > :13:02.We requested emergency funds to be delivered to the area straightaway.

:13:03. > :13:05.So ?5 million, let's say that was sent to the Westway centre, there

:13:06. > :13:08.was still no communication or no physical response on the ground to

:13:09. > :13:13.ensure that all residents understood that that was happening. If you just

:13:14. > :13:17.survived the fire in the tower, how likely are you going to be on the TV

:13:18. > :13:20.or on social media looking at news posts, you're not going to be doing

:13:21. > :13:25.that to understand where your help is. So she listened to some of our

:13:26. > :13:29.statements and of course, yes, she actioned some because she had to in

:13:30. > :13:33.one centre and one centre only and left the rest of us to deal with it

:13:34. > :13:40.all alone. Zed, I'm going to pause you there.

:13:41. > :13:44.We haven't spoken to Theresa May because apologies wouldn't do

:13:45. > :13:47.anything now. It is the matter of people's lives. People have lost

:13:48. > :13:53.their lives. So it is a clear message. We want to know how long

:13:54. > :13:57.the investigation will take. We would like somebody to be held to

:13:58. > :14:00.account. We demand to be part of every single step of the

:14:01. > :14:09.investigation. We need to know... We lost everything. We lost our

:14:10. > :14:18.brother. I'm going to introduce some new people if I may, laebleg,

:14:19. > :14:24.forgive me. -- ladies and gentlemen, forgive me. We have Syd. Thank you

:14:25. > :14:29.very much for talking to us. You were on the 15th floor. Yeah, but

:14:30. > :14:36.before I start anything, please with I can, allow me with all the respect

:14:37. > :14:39.to hold a minute's silence for my people, for my family from Grenfell

:14:40. > :14:43.Tower. Can we have one minute's silence? Can we stand up and give

:14:44. > :15:44.respect to them before we start any discussions. Yes.

:15:45. > :15:54.And hello to you. Thank you so much for talking to us. When you met this

:15:55. > :16:02.morning you did not know that he was alive. Can I tell them? He is one of

:16:03. > :16:06.my patients, I am a local GP, I look after him and his family, it was

:16:07. > :16:11.just the first time I have seen him since the incident. He was

:16:12. > :16:19.hospitalised at one point. A bit emotional to see him well. You've

:16:20. > :16:23.lost a lot of patience? We had 21 resident in the tower, we think ten

:16:24. > :16:30.will be the death toll. We have not had formal notification yet, but we

:16:31. > :16:43.expect the number is ten. How are you doing?

:16:44. > :16:53.People telling me, move on. Who is telling you that? Everyone. Some

:16:54. > :17:00.people from Government come to see you regarding paperwork. Everything

:17:01. > :17:07.black and white. I want these people to come out from decades, to come

:17:08. > :17:14.down to speak to us. Why is this going on? Where is the dead body?

:17:15. > :17:25.Are you going to tell me he was burned? Where is the DNA? There is

:17:26. > :17:31.no more process. We are the process. People are struggling to get their

:17:32. > :17:39.own place. Why? We are not looking for money. People are taking

:17:40. > :17:45.advantage, using our names. We do not want that to happen in this

:17:46. > :17:49.community or Britain. People tell me, you are the lucky ones. No, I

:17:50. > :18:03.don't consider myself lucky. They compare us to Syria or Iraq or

:18:04. > :18:07.Pakistan, but it is a different situation, we are talking about

:18:08. > :18:13.Britain, a powerful country. Process has to be changed now. Procedure has

:18:14. > :18:21.to be changed now. I have a document which is very important, I want to

:18:22. > :18:35.give that to everyone. We did not get any support. The first action

:18:36. > :18:45.has to be done, why are they worried? The media come here to take

:18:46. > :18:53.folk -- videos of fire. What is going on? What is the law? The human

:18:54. > :19:02.beings. We are not going to forget this. I am not aiming for money.

:19:03. > :19:12.Even our meeting yesterday, the because been done, we worked hard to

:19:13. > :19:18.just bring everyone together. We did not get access to a list of the

:19:19. > :19:26.survivors. We have been asking for it, where are the survivors? The

:19:27. > :19:32.houses in Harrow Road for disabled and older people, they are not even

:19:33. > :19:37.ready. A disabled lady came to the hotel, she is disabled. I do not

:19:38. > :19:45.want to give individual problems, because we can deal with it.

:19:46. > :19:56.There is a lady with us, she wanted me to speak slowly, and she wants to

:19:57. > :20:04.understand. I am doing it for them, to understand what is going on.

:20:05. > :20:18.Want to develop an independent, United and typified voice. Keep the

:20:19. > :20:31.community together. We have set up a programme for us all, we are

:20:32. > :20:40.Grenfell United. We were not expecting people to come. Nobody

:20:41. > :20:49.slept in six days. I need to see these people that want to get back

:20:50. > :20:57.their dignity. Where is dignity? If you asked anyone here, they say, I

:20:58. > :21:06.want Betty. Where are the MPs? -- I want dignity. I want is a major

:21:07. > :21:13.come, to speak to the people. They took some people from the hotel with

:21:14. > :21:15.the police, taking video, witnesses. I do not want that to happen. Not

:21:16. > :21:23.now. What we are expecting, we did not

:21:24. > :21:43.get that, we will get it ourselves. We do not want any trouble. If

:21:44. > :21:46.anybody tries to help us, community or whatever, I do not want any

:21:47. > :21:54.chewable. We are not looking for that. -- I do not want any trouble.

:21:55. > :22:02.Go with the system and deal with the system and we will get there. But

:22:03. > :22:07.what I want to say is very important. I want the investigation

:22:08. > :22:14.to stop with the contractor Tom people responsible, people who took

:22:15. > :22:24.the contract, they took millions under the table, we want them to be

:22:25. > :22:30.arrested and in custody. That is the first that the Government has to do.

:22:31. > :22:34.Do you have faith in the criminal investigation that the police are

:22:35. > :22:43.going to carry out? And the public enquiry? No. Is everybody saying no?

:22:44. > :22:51.We made some clear points on what we would like for the enquiry. We ask,

:22:52. > :22:55.could we have some input on who the judge was, who would be the chair,

:22:56. > :23:00.who would be on the panel, what the terms of reference would be. Theresa

:23:01. > :23:04.May did not even bother to respond to us. She just issued a statement

:23:05. > :23:12.by the press. Even that is quite insulting. We wrote to her, it was

:23:13. > :23:24.an open letter, but you give an open response, and she did not bother to

:23:25. > :23:27.reply. Mohammed fled Syria, and in Syria you never see a whole building

:23:28. > :23:35.go on fire. They would deal with it better than Grenfell. You would

:23:36. > :23:45.never see a whole building burn in fire in Syria.

:23:46. > :23:49.Why do we have gas pipes in our escape route? We will ask the

:23:50. > :24:01.housing minister. There is an important point, a few

:24:02. > :24:05.days after the unravelling of Grenfell I sat down with Amber Rudd,

:24:06. > :24:12.and we made a list of demands on behalf of the residents, we were so

:24:13. > :24:15.traumatised from what we saw at the tower and in the following steps

:24:16. > :24:21.afterwards, I could not sleep for three days, so I can only imagine

:24:22. > :24:25.what they are going through. We want to get Mohammed's family over from

:24:26. > :24:29.Syria, it was well-publicised though we should roll out the red carpet

:24:30. > :24:34.for it. There were other demands made which were agreed, such as no

:24:35. > :24:38.resident being for is fully relocated outside the borough, but

:24:39. > :24:43.they were. Yesterday I was with two families who have been relocated to

:24:44. > :24:50.East London. Number three, there was a case made, on behalf of the

:24:51. > :24:56.residents that we have been working with from day one, the hundred plus

:24:57. > :25:00.residents, they see the fund as blood money, they want support. Why

:25:01. > :25:04.is it that in a catastrophe like this there was no Cobra meeting? Is

:25:05. > :25:11.that not the purpose of a Cobra meeting? Some of the other points,

:25:12. > :25:15.we have been told that we have Visa waiver programme is, offering

:25:16. > :25:20.ongoing counselling, but people have not been able to bury their dead in

:25:21. > :25:24.a dignified manner. People have not had access to funeral directors.

:25:25. > :25:28.People have not been given counselling, bar those that have

:25:29. > :25:36.come forward from the NHS to say, we will take our badges off if we do it

:25:37. > :25:45.as people. I will say thank you so much for your time today, I know you

:25:46. > :25:54.have to go. And to Tony Devenish. There is a gentleman here who has

:25:55. > :25:57.had his hand up. We can hear you. People are talking about having

:25:58. > :26:03.faith in the enquiry and people losing trust. That is them, but I

:26:04. > :26:09.have never had any. Everyone has seen the answers we have had from

:26:10. > :26:19.that guy, it looks like he don't even sneeze. The kind of answers we

:26:20. > :26:23.are getting are not good enough. Theresa May said there was no magic

:26:24. > :26:35.monetary, she found that swiftly to keep her job.

:26:36. > :26:41.We will talk more in the next half an hour, and hopefully we will talk

:26:42. > :26:46.to the housing minister and put some of the questions that have been

:26:47. > :26:52.raised about the gas pipes in the stairwell, for example, the fact

:26:53. > :26:55.there has not been a Cobra meeting. For the moment, we will pause to

:26:56. > :27:00.look at some of the questions that remain after the disaster.

:27:01. > :27:02.Here's a look at some of the questions that

:27:03. > :27:05.remain about the disaster here at the Grenfell Tower two weeks later.

:27:06. > :27:08.And a warning that the clip we're about to show you has

:27:09. > :27:32.There's mothers that have come out and lost

:27:33. > :27:37.There are firefighters that have come out

:27:38. > :27:40.There was smoke everywhere, literally everywhere.

:27:41. > :27:42.There was people downstairs, there was bits of the

:27:43. > :27:45.block cladding falling off the block.

:27:46. > :27:55.There was a man who threw two of his children.

:27:56. > :28:32.I looked behind me, and I didn't see my

:28:33. > :28:37.I said, "My brother, my brother, where is he?"

:28:38. > :28:41.I called him, and said, "Where are you?"

:28:42. > :28:54.He said, "No one brought me outside."

:28:55. > :29:13.I'm not going to lie, the locals are angry.

:29:14. > :29:20.Life didn't need to be lost, and they

:29:21. > :29:23.And people are looking for their children,

:29:24. > :29:32.This shouldn't have happened in 2017.

:29:33. > :29:37.And at 2:45am, I called a friend of mine

:29:38. > :29:45.He said to me, "My kitchen is burning now.

:29:46. > :29:48.I don't know what to do," he said to me.

:29:49. > :30:04.People have lost their homes, children have seen things, people

:30:05. > :30:35.We just need to rebuild as a community now.

:30:36. > :30:43.Here at the Maxilla Centre, we're joined by a group

:30:44. > :30:45.of survivors of Grenfell tower, people who've lost loved ones

:30:46. > :30:54.Many people here are frustrated, we have heard it again today with those

:30:55. > :31:00.figures. They don't believe them. They don't understand why the figure

:31:01. > :31:04.is 79 when they themselves have told us today there are many people that

:31:05. > :31:09.they know are missing and are not potentially included in that figure.

:31:10. > :31:13.One person with considerable experience in this area is Denise.

:31:14. > :31:25.She is a forensic scientist and a specialist in this area.

:31:26. > :31:30.We have Ross O'Brien. And Katie is here. She is an

:31:31. > :31:35.executive headteacher of a school and nursery. They lost pupil and a

:31:36. > :31:40.member of staff in the fire. Denise, if I could start with you. Tell us

:31:41. > :31:46.about the complexity and the difficulty involved in trying to

:31:47. > :31:51.identify people in a tragedy of this scale. We have many challenges. We

:31:52. > :31:57.haven't experienced anything like this in the UK before. Part of that

:31:58. > :32:07.is related to the intensity of the fire. Some of the people who were

:32:08. > :32:14.living in the tower will have experienced such high levels,

:32:15. > :32:20.intensities of heat that their remains may only be fragmented

:32:21. > :32:26.bones. And that is an enormous challenge for me as a forensic

:32:27. > :32:30.scientist. Can it be done though? Well, in the nearest comparable

:32:31. > :32:36.situation is the World Trade Centre and I think about 40% of people have

:32:37. > :32:41.never been identified. Our techniques are much, much better

:32:42. > :32:47.now. But our challenge will be that in some cases, I suspect, we will

:32:48. > :32:55.not be able to get any DNA that we can use. Right. The second challenge

:32:56. > :33:02.will be if Ebbe if we have viable DNA, that we can use in order to

:33:03. > :33:07.identify somebody, we have to link that DNA to a member of their family

:33:08. > :33:14.or something belong to go them and we know that many of the close

:33:15. > :33:20.relatives will have perished in this fire and there will not be material

:33:21. > :33:25.that we can use to identify them available so we are looking for any

:33:26. > :33:30.close relatives. Some of those may not be in this country and it's

:33:31. > :33:34.going to be a difficult task to find relatives that we can actually use

:33:35. > :33:39.for the identification. And what you have described, does that explain

:33:40. > :33:47.why the figure at the moment is 79, but is expected to rise according to

:33:48. > :33:53.officials? But we have residents saying, look, we know it's more. I

:33:54. > :33:58.expect it is more, but it's very difficult for... To give a formal

:33:59. > :34:04.official figure. They have given a minimum. OK. We know it must be a

:34:05. > :34:08.minimum. Right. Is, sorry to interrupt, Denise. Is it plausible

:34:09. > :34:11.that the authorities are deliberately suppressing the numbers

:34:12. > :34:18.and dripping the figure out slowly over a period of time? I don't

:34:19. > :34:23.believe that is the case. I understand that the distress of

:34:24. > :34:29.everybody and the knowledge that firemen have said, well, we know

:34:30. > :34:36.there is more and understand that, but in order to say, "We have a

:34:37. > :34:42.person here who is different from another person." You maybe talking

:34:43. > :34:46.about small fragments of tissue which is very distressing and one of

:34:47. > :34:49.our aims is to be able to reunite those people with their statement

:34:50. > :34:55.lis and that's going to be very challenging. And may not even be

:34:56. > :35:01.possible for everybody. Really? Yes. OK. Let's ask people here then, do

:35:02. > :35:04.you believe the numbers are being deliberately suppressed and if you

:35:05. > :35:13.do, why? Danny, we haven't heard from you. I am from the community

:35:14. > :35:16.church around the corner. For me this whole thing has been how much

:35:17. > :35:25.do we place a value on people's lives. I spent a decade doing youth

:35:26. > :35:29.work. I graoup on a council estate in Liverpool. Poverty is poverty, we

:35:30. > :35:37.know there is a price tag on the value of people's lives and for me,

:35:38. > :35:43.what's so difficult is that, this has been coming for so long. I

:35:44. > :35:50.worked in Peckham, every day, hundreds of kids were coming to our

:35:51. > :35:55.centre, hungry. Hungry. So the numbers thing I'm not surprised.

:35:56. > :36:00.It's going to be hundreds. They're not going to tell us like they did

:36:01. > :36:06.with Hillsborough. Let me hear from Amanda. If you believe they are

:36:07. > :36:14.being deliberately suppressed, tell me why you think that is happening?

:36:15. > :36:19.International outcry. I have been telling everyone that's younger than

:36:20. > :36:25.me, calm down. Let's do this the way the system wants us to do this. Keep

:36:26. > :36:30.calm. Don't riot. Do it the right way, but the more that they are

:36:31. > :36:33.suppressing and the more that they are retracking and the more they are

:36:34. > :36:38.hiding, the more the rage is building and that can only mean one

:36:39. > :36:43.thing. That is international. So the minute the more that they are

:36:44. > :36:48.holding down and saying that it's 79, 78, 79, people are starting to

:36:49. > :36:51.use their own intelligence to calculate no, that's not what

:36:52. > :36:54.happening and they are building up for rage and that's why they don't

:36:55. > :37:00.want everyone to turn on them. It has happened already. The Housing

:37:01. > :37:06.Minister, I'm told, is here. And he has agreed to be with us today after

:37:07. > :37:09.pressure from residents. So, I know you have questions for him. I think

:37:10. > :37:14.he's here. Hello. I'm Victoria. Take a seat.

:37:15. > :37:23.Thank you very much for giving us your time today. This is spl

:37:24. > :37:28.people's lives Sharma. He is the Housing Minister and he's here to

:37:29. > :37:33.answer lots of questions as the Housing Minister, the first question

:37:34. > :37:39.is why have people yet to be re-housed two weeks on? Can I just

:37:40. > :37:43.first speak to all the people who are here? We are committed to doing

:37:44. > :37:48.everything we can to help every single person had has been affected

:37:49. > :37:57.and it's not good enough. That's not true. We don't need the sympathy.

:37:58. > :38:03.Answer her direct questions. So the direct answer is that what we have

:38:04. > :38:08.committed to is that everyone will be offered housing in the local

:38:09. > :38:12.area. Two weeks in. When? We said within three weeks. So that's next

:38:13. > :38:17.Wednesday. No, you said you would house them in three weeks. No one

:38:18. > :38:20.has been offered. People have been offered temporary accommodation. You

:38:21. > :38:23.have got different priorities. You have got people that lost everything

:38:24. > :38:31.and people who have been evacuated. There are different priorities. Next

:38:32. > :38:35.door to me, I have got family who lost family, possession, it is not

:38:36. > :38:40.good enough. Let's come back. Just a minute. What are you guaranteeing

:38:41. > :38:44.will happen within three weeks which gives you one more week? So what

:38:45. > :38:48.we're guaranteeing those people who have had their homes destroyed will

:38:49. > :38:57.be offered accommodation by next Wednesday. In Kensington? Into the

:38:58. > :39:03.local area. What type of tenancy? We're going to do this. Joe, Joe, we

:39:04. > :39:07.are going to do this in order. Mr Sharma is going to give us as much

:39:08. > :39:10.time as we need, but we are going to take our time. We are going to take

:39:11. > :39:13.our time because we need to hear the answers, OK? So you say there is one

:39:14. > :39:17.more week. You say suitable accommodation will be offered and it

:39:18. > :39:23.will be in the local borough, that's a guarantee? It will be in the local

:39:24. > :39:29.area. What does that mean? So, what that means is that it will be either

:39:30. > :39:33.in Kensington and Chelsea or in a neighbouring borough. If I may? What

:39:34. > :39:37.we're doing is having a discussion with every single family and

:39:38. > :39:40.household that's been affected and discussing with them their

:39:41. > :39:43.particular needs. So this is about making sure that people get the

:39:44. > :39:47.accommodation that meets their needs and I know there has been talk out

:39:48. > :39:52.there about, there has been talk out there about the fact that, you know,

:39:53. > :39:59.people don't accept the first housing offer, that is not the case.

:40:00. > :40:03.Let me give you that assurance. You should sir hold me accountable for

:40:04. > :40:10.that, because at the end of the day, that's exactly what we have said.

:40:11. > :40:16.OK. OK. What do you mean by the word accommodation? What do you define as

:40:17. > :40:24.accommodation? What I define by temporary accommodation... So now

:40:25. > :40:32.it's temporary. Sajid Javid announced that 63 apartments in

:40:33. > :40:36.Kensington Row will be allocated. We need to know in writing for these

:40:37. > :40:39.residents, for these survivors, in writing, what are the terms and

:40:40. > :40:45.conditions of that. I have been told that between the end of June,

:40:46. > :40:52.mid-July we cannot expect any people in permanent residence. Let's

:40:53. > :40:57.clarify that. I want to highlight is how twice you mentioned the word

:40:58. > :41:01.accommodation the the third time you mentioned the word accommodation and

:41:02. > :41:06.third time it became temporary accommodation. Let him respond. Let

:41:07. > :41:09.him respond. OK, is it temporary accommodation that you are going to

:41:10. > :41:14.be offering by this time next week? Can I say, look, I understand why

:41:15. > :41:19.people are really angry. I do understand that. Please if I may

:41:20. > :41:27.have, if I may have just for one minute... Angry. I went to the

:41:28. > :41:31.harrow Club last week together with my colleague Nick Hurd and I met

:41:32. > :41:36.people who was affected by this. The bravery that people are showing in

:41:37. > :41:40.coming forward and the dignity is something that... Stop, please. They

:41:41. > :41:47.are asking you to stop your platitudes, please.

:41:48. > :41:52.I'm not moving my child from here to here to here. I want a permanent

:41:53. > :41:54.accommodation. If you don't get the permanent accommodation, I'm not

:41:55. > :41:59.going to accept it. I'm not going to take any house you give me. If you

:42:00. > :42:08.give me a house, I'm not going to take it. I was happy in my house. I

:42:09. > :42:18.had a good house. I'm not going to accept it. Give me a hug. No, no,

:42:19. > :42:24.please, we will come to you, Syd, I promise. I promise. So, Victoria...

:42:25. > :42:28.Just a minute. He does not want temporary accommodation, he wants

:42:29. > :42:30.permanent accommodation, he wants good, permanent acome dogs, that's

:42:31. > :42:36.not too much to ask. Can you promise him that? Victoria, so what we have

:42:37. > :42:40.said... Just say yes or no? Yes, of course, we're going to make sure

:42:41. > :42:43.that everyone is in good, quality accommodation. If I may answer, then

:42:44. > :42:48.I will explain to you precisely what's going on. So right now, we

:42:49. > :42:51.have a lot of people who are in hotels, what we have said is that

:42:52. > :42:56.we're doing these housing needs assessments with everyone and anyone

:42:57. > :43:00.here who has not that done I will sit down after this and we will go

:43:01. > :43:03.through, anyone that's not getting any help, that you need, we will sit

:43:04. > :43:06.do you think I will not leave until I have spoken to every single person

:43:07. > :43:12.who needs support right now. So what we have said... My next question is

:43:13. > :43:17.Mahad Egal, you may not have met him, he was offered accommodation,

:43:18. > :43:20.he escaped from the fourth floor of the burning tower, he was offered

:43:21. > :43:24.accommodation in a high-rise block, why? If that accommodation is not

:43:25. > :43:28.acceptable to you and I understand why then you should not accept it. I

:43:29. > :43:32.will sit down with you straight after this and we will have a

:43:33. > :43:36.discussion about precisely what it is that will suit you and then, if

:43:37. > :43:39.need be, I will sit down with you and the people who do the housing

:43:40. > :43:48.assessment needs and we will work out and make sure... Sit down with

:43:49. > :43:58.them. Clarify this. These people here are united. The programme has

:43:59. > :44:02.been set-up. We need from you guys, please, stop hiding things from us.

:44:03. > :44:10.It's international now. Stop hiding. I want everything on the table black

:44:11. > :44:17.and white. I want you everything by confirmation. We don't want to talk.

:44:18. > :44:22.Please. Please. Can I give you one, please, I'm not angry, stop saying

:44:23. > :44:28.to people we're angry. We're not angry. We cry every day for these

:44:29. > :44:35.people. We're not angry. We're sad. Disappointed. Disappointed.

:44:36. > :44:40.Frustrated, traumatised. We are not angry. Stop saying angry, angry,

:44:41. > :44:44.even in politics we don't use it. It is a shame to use this word to us.

:44:45. > :44:48.It's a shame. Angry for someone who doesn't control himself. Angry a

:44:49. > :44:57.killer who doesn't control his mind. We're not angry people. We know,

:44:58. > :45:04.we're trying to set-up a programme and we want to have our voice heard.

:45:05. > :45:15.Let him respond. No, no, Syd, you need to let him respond.

:45:16. > :45:24.Now you have to let him respond, and then we will take questions calmly

:45:25. > :45:27.from each of you. The first question is that people want stuff in

:45:28. > :45:32.writing. I have written with my colleague, and that letter has

:45:33. > :45:40.hopefully been sent out, if you have not seen it...

:45:41. > :45:49.The council has no clue where my wife and kids are. Do you promise

:45:50. > :45:53.you will gather the victims and survivors up from the tragedy

:45:54. > :46:02.together to understand their needs? Will you do that? They say they have

:46:03. > :46:08.not been heard, they have not been gathered together in one place. Will

:46:09. > :46:13.you ask you will do that? Them when they are together, they have the

:46:14. > :46:22.voice of unity. We want to be part of... When we are talking about this

:46:23. > :46:27.inquiry, it has already started, but we have not had the opportunity to

:46:28. > :46:34.come together as one. We need to be part of every single decision made.

:46:35. > :46:40.With respect, I think this is where we are at the moment, and tell me if

:46:41. > :46:45.I have misunderstood. You are promising good permanent

:46:46. > :46:52.accommodation within seven days? What I have said is that what we are

:46:53. > :46:56.offering people is good accommodation which meets the needs

:46:57. > :47:01.of individual families within the seven-day period, but what we will

:47:02. > :47:04.then do is work with everyone to make sure that they then move into

:47:05. > :47:15.more permanent accommodation, which I gain meets their needs are.

:47:16. > :47:15.Explain why you cannot offer permanent accommodation within this

:47:16. > :47:28.timescale. We need to make sure that we have the right type of housing in

:47:29. > :47:34.place, so what we are doing is... England is gone. A private contract,

:47:35. > :47:39.because of your greed. Your greed has created hell. Your greed, for

:47:40. > :47:49.money in your pocket, for these people to be poor.

:47:50. > :48:03.Guys, there is no point shouted. There are not secure tenancies

:48:04. > :48:11.anymore, are there, Minister? Is that fair on victims? When people

:48:12. > :48:17.are offered permanent accommodation, it will be on the same terms as they

:48:18. > :48:26.had before. That is not going to change. In the borough there are

:48:27. > :48:32.50,000 vacant properties, if I am not mistaken, and if you wanted, if

:48:33. > :48:38.the community had managed to find temporary shelters in hotels with

:48:39. > :48:42.unlimited resources that you have access to, that we do not even know

:48:43. > :48:50.about, why are these people not being moved into those permanent

:48:51. > :48:59.properties? You cannot take over this. Let him answer. In terms of

:49:00. > :49:06.letters, I am happy to write individually to people. Where are

:49:07. > :49:09.you going to write to them at? Sergey Javad will also be writing a

:49:10. > :49:19.letter to individuals, where you have concerns. There is a committee,

:49:20. > :49:28.I will come back whenever you want and have a discussion with the group

:49:29. > :49:31.as a whole. Let him speak. I came to the Harrow club, I don't know if

:49:32. > :49:37.anyone here was there, but I spoke to everyone and I took up individual

:49:38. > :49:41.cases. I am committing to sit down with every person here and anybody

:49:42. > :49:49.else that you know that needs help and is not getting it. We will get

:49:50. > :49:57.people together. The discussion on individual needs... Why has the

:49:58. > :50:06.Government not convened a Cobra meeting when it did do when part of

:50:07. > :50:11.the country were flooded? We have been having meetings regularly, we

:50:12. > :50:21.had one on recovery yesterday, the first Cobra meeting was held... I

:50:22. > :50:26.cannot give you the precise date... 96 hours after this disaster

:50:27. > :50:29.unravelled. I would agree that the initial response was not good

:50:30. > :50:39.enough. It was pathetic. There was no response. What about his point

:50:40. > :50:43.about the thousands of empty homes? This was a community of people who

:50:44. > :50:46.had known each other for decades, their kids went to school together.

:50:47. > :50:52.You should promise that this land should be kept council owned and

:50:53. > :50:58.these people have a right to return at any point. Onto his point, why is

:50:59. > :51:02.it OK that there are thousands of empty homes in this area and these

:51:03. > :51:11.people are homeless, when this is their community? I understand. What

:51:12. > :51:17.will you do about that? People want to stay together as a community. We

:51:18. > :51:22.are identifying homes, we have already identified a large number of

:51:23. > :51:37.homes. Answer the question, please. I am attempting to do that.

:51:38. > :51:49.May I just say... There are 845 homes that are also part of that

:51:50. > :51:56.block, the Lancaster West State, who have been affected. My family and

:51:57. > :52:01.friends are part of the tower, but that also affects the 845 homes, not

:52:02. > :52:06.residents, of part of the Lancaster West is date. That has to be part of

:52:07. > :52:12.the ultimate solution. You have not mentioned that. Everybody is talking

:52:13. > :52:20.about 63 luxury flats, what about the 845 homes? The residents

:52:21. > :52:23.speculated there are some that are now confirmed dead, but what about

:52:24. > :52:33.the rest of them and the rest of the estate? It is not just the tower. I

:52:34. > :52:48.do understand that. He won't know what to answer. Let him speak. Those

:52:49. > :52:52.850 homes that are outside Grenfell, some of those households are being

:52:53. > :52:57.accommodated currently in hotels, and those who have had their homes

:52:58. > :53:06.destroyed will of course be offered accommodation. I understand that

:53:07. > :53:09.people do not have gas and hot water in those buildings, and there is

:53:10. > :53:17.work being done to fix that. No gas, water, security. Water damage. There

:53:18. > :53:23.is debris, you have had cleaners on site, there is no access. Those are

:53:24. > :53:33.the people do have put it hotels. Did you know that? Yet. You failed

:53:34. > :53:37.to mention it. It is vital, because you are now talking to the world, it

:53:38. > :53:41.is vital you let them know exactly what is happening, I can live

:53:42. > :53:48.without hot water, you can have a shower in the Westway or wherever,

:53:49. > :53:52.although now you have to pay. Minister, you are hearing these

:53:53. > :53:56.voices, everybody has concerns and they want specific answers. Please

:53:57. > :54:02.be specific what package are you offering in terms of housing the

:54:03. > :54:06.residents back into this borough? Be specific please, without the flowery

:54:07. > :54:15.words. Please get him to speak. Let him do that. Let the minister speak,

:54:16. > :54:22.he what he is committing to. We have committed to anybody whose home has

:54:23. > :54:25.been destroyed will be housed by next Wednesday in good

:54:26. > :54:29.accommodation, and then we will work... In housing that is

:54:30. > :54:34.acceptable to them. We are not going to offer you a home, you don't like

:54:35. > :54:42.it and you will still have to go there. Let me finish. Then we will

:54:43. > :54:47.work with those households to make sure they are in a longer term

:54:48. > :54:54.permanent home, which is on the same contract level in terms of social

:54:55. > :54:58.housing that you have had before, and we have talked about some of

:54:59. > :55:03.these in Kensington Road, and we will work with people to make sure

:55:04. > :55:06.that, depending on their needs, they get those, and who will make sure

:55:07. > :55:11.that some more of those houses and flats become available. I understand

:55:12. > :55:17.people want answers now. That is the offer. Another concern was we have

:55:18. > :55:22.lots of empty homes and people want to be rehoused within the community.

:55:23. > :55:26.There is a concern of social cleansing, people being moved out of

:55:27. > :55:29.this area. The reason why the tower block was clad gusty make it look

:55:30. > :55:36.more appealing to the rich neighbourhood. There is a concern,

:55:37. > :55:39.and there is a demand that people want to be rehoused back into their

:55:40. > :55:45.community, and not moved out of their area. The ward. We want to be

:55:46. > :55:50.in the board. Could you answer, please? Can we have some specifics

:55:51. > :55:57.by what you mean about neighbouring areas? Can you mention in terms of

:55:58. > :56:04.the accommodation, because you have sidestepped the issue, 52,000 vacant

:56:05. > :56:08.properties, what is your time frame? You have access to unlimited

:56:09. > :56:16.resources, more than we do. Can you clarify those points? The time frame

:56:17. > :56:21.is clear, by next Wednesday will make sure... In terms of the

:56:22. > :56:25.transition to the per minute -- permanent accommodation, what can we

:56:26. > :56:35.expect? As quickly as possible. They don't know. Just to clarify, I

:56:36. > :56:39.understand there is tension, and I do understand it is not just your

:56:40. > :56:44.responsibility or your fault, but it is OK, I just want to clarify, if

:56:45. > :56:48.you don't know, or if you need to confirm to somebody else, as long as

:56:49. > :56:51.we are not given false promises, because the worst thing you can do

:56:52. > :56:59.is to give these people. This is which will be broken, or lie. I am

:57:00. > :57:02.not here to give you false promises. I will sit down with each of you

:57:03. > :57:10.individually and talk about your circumstances. I am also happy to

:57:11. > :57:16.sit down with people as a community group and talk about the issues.

:57:17. > :57:22.That is my personal commitment. We'll use it with all of the

:57:23. > :57:26.survivors together? I will work with the group that you have here. These

:57:27. > :57:32.bring together all of the people that are affected, I am very happy

:57:33. > :57:35.to sit down and have that discussion, but what is also

:57:36. > :57:39.important is that everybody individually gets the support they

:57:40. > :57:50.need and deserve. If you are not getting it, I want to try to fix

:57:51. > :57:55.that TA. -- fix that today. You are promising to meet people

:57:56. > :57:58.individually when we have whole institution in place, and now the

:57:59. > :58:06.response in place to handle that. There is a catastrophic failure in

:58:07. > :58:12.the entire system. I am so sorry, we are coming to the end of the

:58:13. > :58:20.programme. We are at the end of the programme, I am so sorry. I will

:58:21. > :58:28.thank all of you. You are going to stay and talk to them, thank you for

:58:29. > :58:29.your time this morning. Thank you so much, you can carry on talking after

:58:30. > :58:32.the end of the programme. Brexit means Brexit.

:58:33. > :58:35.We did it! To pretend that it's going to be

:58:36. > :58:38.plain sailing is such knuckle-headed lunacy.

:58:39. > :58:42.Happy days are here.