03/07/2017

:00:07. > :00:09.Hello - it's Monday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:10. > :00:12.Our top story today - Theresa May is under increasing

:00:13. > :00:15.pressure to scrap the public sector pay cap, which means teachers,

:00:16. > :00:17.nurses, fire fighters and prison officers have seen their pay capped

:00:18. > :00:28.I think that we should listen to the pay review bodies who govern each

:00:29. > :00:32.individual area public sector pay. Also on the programme -

:00:33. > :00:36.survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire tell this programme

:00:37. > :00:40.of the devastating impact it's had on their mental health,

:00:41. > :00:51.and the lack of the support they're I feel like when you... We have to

:00:52. > :00:54.switch the TV on, so we can see the light when you're sleeping, so you

:00:55. > :01:03.don't have to keep thinking about that little boy who died in your

:01:04. > :01:07.room, or his mum. Over the next couple of years we will have a major

:01:08. > :01:08.entry programme, so we will be reaching out to absolutely everyone

:01:09. > :01:09.in the area. Plus - we've learnt that girls

:01:10. > :01:12.as young as nine are seeking surgery on their vagina because they

:01:13. > :01:21.are distressed by its appearance. Some critics say it is similar to

:01:22. > :01:25.FGM, but not everyone agrees. Female genital mutilation is clearly not a

:01:26. > :01:32.procedure that we can support in any way, shape or form. To even use it

:01:33. > :01:40.in the same sentence as Libya plaster surgery is not only

:01:41. > :01:44.unhelpful, but it is unfair. -- labia plaster surgery. The law is

:01:45. > :01:46.very clear. I see it is the same thing. We should not be mutilating

:01:47. > :01:47.bodies for cultural reasons. Our full exclusive reporter

:01:48. > :01:55.after half nine this morning. Hello, welcome to the programme -

:01:56. > :01:58.we're live until 11. Throughout the morning,

:01:59. > :01:59.the latest breaking news A little later in the

:02:00. > :02:08.programme we'll hear from a woman called "Laura,"

:02:09. > :02:10.who was a victim of the Rochdale paedophile and grooming ring

:02:11. > :02:15.from the age of 13 until she was 17. She has never spoken publicly

:02:16. > :02:18.about her story before, but tells us how she believes she's

:02:19. > :02:21.been repeatedly let down by police. Do get in touch on all the stories

:02:22. > :02:24.we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag Victoria Live,

:02:25. > :02:27.and if you text, you will be charged Our top story today - the Foreign

:02:28. > :02:32.Secretary's added his voice to the growing calls

:02:33. > :02:34.from within the Cabinet for Theresa May to lift

:02:35. > :02:36.the 1% cap on pay rises The limit is due to be

:02:37. > :02:40.in place until 2020. But a Government source said

:02:41. > :02:42.Boris Johnson "strongly" believed pay rises could be achieved

:02:43. > :02:44.without putting undue pressure Let's speak to our poltical

:02:45. > :02:55.guru Norman Smith. Holeable, Norman. Michael Gove said

:02:56. > :02:58.this could be done without necessarily raising taxes, -- hello,

:02:59. > :03:02.Norman. Boris Johnson has said something similar. How do they think

:03:03. > :03:06.it could be done? They have not actually said how it could be done,

:03:07. > :03:09.which I imagine is what the Chancellor is thinking. Namely, it

:03:10. > :03:13.is all very well to call for an end to the public sector pay cap, but

:03:14. > :03:19.how will you pay for? The Institute for Fiscal Studies said it would

:03:20. > :03:22.cost around ?6 billion to end the pay gap, saw an awful lot of money,

:03:23. > :03:26.but thankfully all the -- actually all the signs are it is hard to see

:03:27. > :03:29.how the Government can stand by it. We have had six Cabinet ministers

:03:30. > :03:33.either publicly themselves or through sources saying basically

:03:34. > :03:37.they think the public sector pay cap should go. Downing Street meanwhile

:03:38. > :03:40.have been sending out rather conflicting messages. They certainly

:03:41. > :03:44.don't seem to be raining in any of these ministers, so when you put all

:03:45. > :03:48.that together it would seem to me, if you are in a pay review body,

:03:49. > :03:55.you're going to take the comments of the likes of Boris Johnson, Michael

:03:56. > :04:02.Fallon and others as a green light to go above the 1% pay cap, and bear

:04:03. > :04:05.in mind already last year when the teachers' pay review body reported,

:04:06. > :04:09.they said there should be a significant rise above the 1%

:04:10. > :04:15.threshold. The NHS pay review body said they didn't think the 1% cap

:04:16. > :04:19.was sustainable, so when they hear ministers saying, you know what,

:04:20. > :04:23.maybe public sector workers should have more, the chances are when

:04:24. > :04:26.report this time they will be recommending increases significantly

:04:27. > :04:35.above the 1% pay cap. Thank you very much, Norman. Much more on this to

:04:36. > :04:38.come. Wherever you work, public sector, private sector, should the

:04:39. > :04:42.Government gets the 1% pay cap, and if so how should any pay rises be

:04:43. > :04:43.paid for? Where will you get the money from? You Chancellor for the

:04:44. > :04:46.morning. Annita McVeigh is in the BBC

:04:47. > :04:49.Newsroom with a summary For the first time in nearly

:04:50. > :04:55.a decade, more nurses and midwives are leaving the profession in the UK

:04:56. > :04:58.than joining it. The Nursing and Midwifery Council

:04:59. > :05:00.says working conditions, workload and poor pay are some

:05:01. > :05:02.of the reasons given. For years, the numbers registering

:05:03. > :05:07.to work as nurses and midwives have been going in one

:05:08. > :05:09.direction - up. And, with increasing demands

:05:10. > :05:11.on our health service, These latest figures showing more

:05:12. > :05:14.staff leaving than joining should, according to the healthcare union

:05:15. > :05:16.Unison, ring alarm bells with the Government,

:05:17. > :05:33.and could signal a staffing crisis. Between last March and this,

:05:34. > :05:35.the numbers on the register Over the following two months,

:05:36. > :05:39.there was a more dramatic move, the number going down

:05:40. > :05:41.again by more than 3000. It is only a small proportion

:05:42. > :05:44.of the total number of nurses registered,

:05:45. > :05:46.but it is the significance of the downward trend

:05:47. > :05:48.which is causing concern. There is great demand for the right

:05:49. > :05:51.standards of care to be If the numbers continue to fall,

:05:52. > :05:55.then clearly some action needs to be In a survey of staff who had left,

:05:56. > :05:59.for those not retiring the biggest factors were working

:06:00. > :06:01.conditions and disillusionment with the quality of care

:06:02. > :06:03.provided to patients. The highest proportion of leavers

:06:04. > :06:20.were British nurses. Of EU nurses surveyed,

:06:21. > :06:22.a third quoted Brexit In a statement, the Department

:06:23. > :06:26.of Health said it has launched a national programme to ensure

:06:27. > :06:29.nurses have the support they need This programme has learned girls

:06:30. > :06:44.as young as nine are seeking surgery on their vagina

:06:45. > :06:46.because they are distressed Doctors say they're seeing more

:06:47. > :06:49.and more young teenagers who are very distressed with how

:06:50. > :06:52.this part of their body looks - even though they have no

:06:53. > :06:54.medical need for surgery. Labiaplasty is an operation

:06:55. > :06:56.which is not recommended for those under the age of 18 because the body

:06:57. > :06:59.has not finished developing. We shouldn't be performing

:07:00. > :07:02.operations and surgery which is irreversible on developing

:07:03. > :07:05.bodies for cultural reasons. The Western culture,

:07:06. > :07:06.the current culture, is to have very small labia minora,

:07:07. > :07:37.for them to be The regulator Ofcom this says they

:07:38. > :07:43.are consulting at on how to make energy bills more affordable and

:07:44. > :07:46.easier to switch for the people on lower incomes.

:07:47. > :07:48.Police are continuing to question a man after a 16-year-old girl

:07:49. > :07:51.was killed and six other teenagers injured when a car crashed

:07:52. > :07:55.The man - who's in his 30s - is being questioned on suspicion

:07:56. > :07:58.of causing death by dangerous driving after the incident

:07:59. > :08:00.in Croydon in the early hours of Sunday morning.

:08:01. > :08:04.Several people are feared dead after a tour bus crashed and rushed into

:08:05. > :08:09.flames when it collided with a lorry in Bavaria in southern Germany close

:08:10. > :08:12.to the town of Stammbach. They say 17 people are unaccounted for and

:08:13. > :08:22.may not have made it out of the coach. A number of flights from

:08:23. > :08:25.Gatwick Airport were redirected yesterday after reports of a drone

:08:26. > :08:29.flying outside the airport. The flight had to circle the airport as

:08:30. > :08:33.a precaution. Sussex Police are investigating.

:08:34. > :08:35.The Northern Ireland Secretary, James Brokenshire, will make

:08:36. > :08:37.a Commons statement later about talks to restore power

:08:38. > :08:39.The latest legal deadline for the negotiations

:08:40. > :08:42.passed on Thursday - but he allowed the talks

:08:43. > :08:44.between the DUP and Sinn Fein to continue after the negotiating

:08:45. > :08:48.The public enquiry into decades of historical child abuse

:08:49. > :08:50.in Jersey will report its findings later today.

:08:51. > :08:51.More than 600 witnesses have given evidence

:08:52. > :08:53.about abuse in children's homes and in foster care.

:08:54. > :08:57.Police recorded more than 500 alleged offences -

:08:58. > :09:01.of which 315 were said to have been committed at the Haute de la

:09:02. > :09:24.President Trump has been accused of inciting violence

:09:25. > :09:26.against journalists, after he tweeted a spoof video

:09:27. > :09:28.showing him assaulting a man with a CNN logo super-imposed

:09:29. > :09:32.In the wrestling video, he's shown punching the CNN

:09:33. > :09:34.The President regularly accuses CNN and other media

:09:35. > :09:36.outlets of broadcasting what he calls, "fake news."

:09:37. > :09:39.It's been retweeted more than 250,000 times.

:09:40. > :09:42.Two people have miraculously walked away with just minor injuries -

:09:43. > :09:44.after their supercar crashed into the side of a house

:09:45. > :09:48.These images were taken by fire crews at the crash site

:09:49. > :09:59.It's understood it was a McClaren sports car which ploughed into this

:10:00. > :10:02.No one who lived in the house was injured either.

:10:03. > :10:06.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

:10:07. > :10:12.Thank you. Bank of England workers are going to stage a four day

:10:13. > :10:16.straight from the end of July, Justin, in a dispute over pay,

:10:17. > :10:21.according to the union Unite. So people at the bank are to stage four

:10:22. > :10:23.they strike from July the 31st in the dispute over pay. Olly Foster is

:10:24. > :10:33.here for the sport. Good morning. The gates open in the

:10:34. > :10:38.next hour or so at the Wimbledon Club. Defending champion Andy Murray

:10:39. > :10:42.has declared himself fit. He has had this hip problem and is very short

:10:43. > :10:45.on matches on grass in the build-up, but the number one says he should be

:10:46. > :10:51.OK to go the distance. He is first up on Centre Court at one o'clock,

:10:52. > :10:54.playing the world number 134 from Kazakhstan. It has been a pretty

:10:55. > :10:58.similar story for the British number one Johanna Konta over the past

:10:59. > :11:02.week, after that heavy fall in the Eastbourne quarterfinal. She hurt

:11:03. > :11:06.her back but she says she has fully recovered. She is seeded sixth at

:11:07. > :11:16.Wimbledon and is up in the number one Court against the Taiwanese

:11:17. > :11:20.player. And the tour champion Chris Froome also went down in this nasty

:11:21. > :11:25.pile-up yesterday. He is sixth overall as the tour heads into

:11:26. > :11:29.France from Belgium today. The Open starts in just over 12 weeks and

:11:30. > :11:32.Tommy Fleetwood is hitting form at the right time, the enlistment who

:11:33. > :11:36.came fourth in the US open last month won the French Open yesterday.

:11:37. > :11:40.This year it is at Royal Birkdale which just happens to be in Tommy

:11:41. > :11:46.Fleetwood's hometown of Southport. I will be back with a full update at

:11:47. > :11:50.ten o'clock but I know that you, Victoria, will be going live to

:11:51. > :11:54.Wimbledon in the next 20 minutes or so. Yes, we will.

:11:55. > :11:56.But this morning we'll start the programme with the latest

:11:57. > :12:02.Nearly three weeks on and those who escaped have been telling us

:12:03. > :12:05.about the devastating impact of the fire on their mental health

:12:06. > :12:08.and they say they're not getting the support they need

:12:09. > :12:12.Our reporter Chloe Tilley has been to meet one of the survivors

:12:13. > :12:14.of the fire who doesn't feel she's received the mental

:12:15. > :12:18.Rashida didn't want to show her face as she says some people are getting

:12:19. > :12:26.Rashida lived on the 15th floor of the Grenfell Tower.

:12:27. > :12:29.Her home has been destroyed, along with all of her possessions.

:12:30. > :12:31.For now a hotel is where she is living with

:12:32. > :12:40.The few belongings she has been donated by the community.

:12:41. > :12:43.This is what people bring as - everything is a start from scratch.

:12:44. > :12:47.On the night of the fire, Rashida carried her daughter in her arms,

:12:48. > :12:50.Only when she got outside and saw the

:12:51. > :12:53.flames engulfing the building did she understand what was happening.

:12:54. > :13:01.Her husband Sid also escaped, but was taken to hospital.

:13:02. > :13:17.He's spoken to our programme about his frustration and anger at

:13:18. > :13:19.the authorities over the weight they are

:13:20. > :13:20.treating survivors of the

:13:21. > :13:24.They compare us to Syria or Iran or Iraq.

:13:25. > :13:32.We're talking about a powerful country here.

:13:33. > :13:34.For Rashida, however, she isn't angry - she is

:13:35. > :13:36.struggling to cope with what she's experienced.

:13:37. > :13:38.It's very exhausting and it's very sad and it's very

:13:39. > :13:53.It's like me now - I feel like I don't have

:13:54. > :13:55.an identity, like I'm starting again.

:13:56. > :14:00.It's like we have to go and find out how everyday and go and see

:14:01. > :14:03.what's going on because we don't know nothing.

:14:04. > :14:05.No one's coming, no one's telling us anything.

:14:06. > :14:10.The first week I couldn't sleep because every time

:14:11. > :14:12.I moved, I saw one of the people's faces, like the kids.

:14:13. > :14:16.It's like a movie is going in my eyes.

:14:17. > :14:25.And is that still hard for you to sleep?

:14:26. > :14:34.I'm talking now, the pictures coming now.

:14:35. > :14:38.One of the ways Rashida is dealing with her

:14:39. > :14:41.grief is to each day visit the site of the burnt

:14:42. > :14:50.I'm struck, speaking to survivors of Grenfell Tower, with a

:14:51. > :14:51.deep sense of mistrust, mistrust of the authorities,

:14:52. > :14:54.of the media, lots of people saying they didn't want to

:14:55. > :14:58.But what they did say was that they need mental

:14:59. > :15:01.health support but don't know how to access the services - the services

:15:02. > :15:04.are there but they have to seek them out and one

:15:05. > :15:06.man even said he had to raise his voice to a social

:15:07. > :15:09.worker for his fiancee to get mental health support that very day.

:15:10. > :15:11.Rashida is one of many survivors who tells us

:15:12. > :15:16.We brought together with Linda from the Good

:15:17. > :15:19.Grief Trust, and Ross O'Brien who is leading the NHS mental health

:15:20. > :15:22.response to the fire, and they talked in her hotel room.

:15:23. > :15:32.I'm just holding on, to be strong for my daughter and my family.

:15:33. > :15:37.I need mental help, I need medical help, I

:15:38. > :15:44.People coming, looking to help but they

:15:45. > :15:48.were standing there with no information, they were trying to

:15:49. > :15:52.reach two people and I didn't know they are here for us, to help us.

:15:53. > :15:56.This is what we've really struggled with from the start.

:15:57. > :16:01.We had some information about people who are out

:16:02. > :16:07.of there but not all of the information.

:16:08. > :16:11.So we've reached out to the people we know about but people

:16:12. > :16:14.like yourselves and a host of others that we don't have information

:16:15. > :16:18.about, we've tried to reach out but being at the hotels, we've gone door

:16:19. > :16:22.to door in the surrounding area of the tower, and the further

:16:23. > :16:26.surrounding areas as well, we are working with the Red Cross and with

:16:27. > :16:30.local volunteers from the community to cope,

:16:31. > :16:32.we are calling all the

:16:33. > :16:35.mobile numbers but obviously if people are being displaced...

:16:36. > :16:40.Because we lost everything in the fire.

:16:41. > :16:49.We had to wait for more than a week to

:16:50. > :16:55.We've been given a temporary smartphone and it was a new number,

:16:56. > :16:59.and we had to give that number to everyone but it wasn't easy, you

:17:00. > :17:00.know, people coming, taking our numbers, saying

:17:01. > :17:12.Where did you sleep in those first nights?

:17:13. > :17:16.Your husband was in hospital and your daughter...

:17:17. > :17:24.I was walking around for two days, and I felt, my feeling was numb.

:17:25. > :17:31.I have a lot of friends in the area, all night and they all came

:17:32. > :17:35.looking for me and my family, they've been crying for days.

:17:36. > :17:38.Every time they see me they had me and cry.

:17:39. > :17:49.You've obviously got to look after the

:17:50. > :17:52.survivors but also the wider communities.

:17:53. > :18:00.What we will be doing over the next months and

:18:01. > :18:02.years is, will have a major programme, reaching out to

:18:03. > :18:04.absolutely everyone in the area from firefighters, front

:18:05. > :18:07.line emergency services, volunteers, community

:18:08. > :18:11.organisations, schools, teachers, and the community themselves then

:18:12. > :18:16.will mobilise support so that people can have ongoing treatment and

:18:17. > :18:22.support through what will be a really tough time.

:18:23. > :18:28.We are the main ones who went through the fire but I

:18:29. > :18:39.think all the community will need help.

:18:40. > :18:43.If you live near Grenfell Tower and you've been affected by the fire

:18:44. > :18:56.The number to call for mental health support is 0800 023 4650.

:18:57. > :19:03.We can speak now to Daniel Moylan, a Conservative councllor and former

:19:04. > :19:05.deputy leader at Kensington and Chelsea Council,

:19:06. > :19:13.and Richard Burgon, Labour's spokesperson on justice.

:19:14. > :19:19.Mr Moylan, the council leader resigned for perceived failings, he

:19:20. > :19:24.said. Are they perceived or real? There were real failings in handling

:19:25. > :19:29.the aftermath of the fire. Whether there were failings before that in

:19:30. > :19:31.the past is the subject of an inquiry and criminal investigations.

:19:32. > :19:35.But there were real failings in the handling of the fire. The council

:19:36. > :19:40.was overwhelmed. That's almost forgivable because of the scale of

:19:41. > :19:42.the disaster, what was not forgivable was failing to regular

:19:43. > :19:49.news that, failing to call for help and take up the offers of help and

:19:50. > :19:53.bring people in. Why do you think Mr Paget-Brown couldn't accept that he

:19:54. > :20:00.had failed and the council which he ran failed? I'm note going to

:20:01. > :20:04.comment on what goes on in other people's iedth heads. You know the

:20:05. > :20:10.man. But for the council to go forward as a body and have a if you

:20:11. > :20:14.her, it has to start from a position of acknowledging that something has

:20:15. > :20:20.happened for which we need to apologise. Almost more than

:20:21. > :20:26.apologise, we have to have a new relationship with the people

:20:27. > :20:30.affected. We need to start that very, very quickly if we are to

:20:31. > :20:37.survive. I think commissioners coming in to run the council would

:20:38. > :20:42.be a bad move but it may actually have to happen. I think one of the

:20:43. > :20:48.reasons it would be a bad move is that it would remove councillors,

:20:49. > :20:52.including Labour councillors who represent the people in North

:20:53. > :20:56.Kensington and who've been doing work as their voice. I notice that

:20:57. > :21:02.although Sadiq Khan has a view on this, the view of the Labour Leader

:21:03. > :21:05.in Kensington is to give a very short lead time for the Conservative

:21:06. > :21:10.group and the council to sort itself out. Before he calls for

:21:11. > :21:15.commissioners, that is what he has said. I think that is the right

:21:16. > :21:21.balance on that question. OK. The Monday after the fire, Nick

:21:22. > :21:28.Paget-Brown offered his resignation but you and his colleagues wouldn't

:21:29. > :21:32.accept it? I ensured... I believe the Cabinet unanimously asked him to

:21:33. > :21:37.stay when the wider Conservative group was asked, it was not

:21:38. > :21:44.unanimous. I wouldn't give me ascent to that. On Friday last week,

:21:45. > :21:49.completely exasperated, I went on television and said at lunch time

:21:50. > :21:55.that I thought he should resign and he should have resigned a week

:21:56. > :21:59.earlier. Clearly he should have done and it would have been better all

:22:00. > :22:04.round. What do you need to do now? You have talked about trying to

:22:05. > :22:11.build trust with residents. What do you need to do in practical terms in

:22:12. > :22:15.terms of helping? In practical terms, we have to show that we can

:22:16. > :22:20.elect a leader who represents a genuine break with the past... That

:22:21. > :22:25.wouldn't be the prior residents? Of course not, I completely understand

:22:26. > :22:29.that. In practical terms, there's been a much better coordinated

:22:30. > :22:33.effort since the other London local authorities and the Government came

:22:34. > :22:36.in to put the resources behind it. You have illustrated some failings

:22:37. > :22:41.this morning. There are still things going wrong. Mental health - can

:22:42. > :22:45.people access the services, the services are there. Computers

:22:46. > :22:48.churning out rent demands because nobody's thought to stop them, that

:22:49. > :22:52.sort of thing, you know, has been addressed and needs to be addressed,

:22:53. > :22:56.so it's by no means perfect. The key thing that needs to be done in the

:22:57. > :23:00.first instance, but it will take some weeks I think, is to find a

:23:01. > :23:03.permanent proper home for the people who've been displaced so that they

:23:04. > :23:09.can move out of hotel accommodation into something like that. Their

:23:10. > :23:13.lives need toe be rebuilt, their children need to be given help,

:23:14. > :23:17.counselling and support. Can you tell us what sort of properties are

:23:18. > :23:23.being looked at for that permanent accommodation? No. You don't know?

:23:24. > :23:29.No. There is a group responsible for this. As far as I know, I do not

:23:30. > :23:33.know what properties are being looked. A we know about the social

:23:34. > :23:37.housing that's being got ready quickly in Kensington High Street

:23:38. > :23:41.that's been bought at cost from the developers so that it can be got

:23:42. > :23:47.ready very quickly, the 68 unit there is, but I don't know the other

:23:48. > :23:50.units are. That is permanent accommodation so they can move in

:23:51. > :23:54.and stay there? That was always going to be permanent social

:23:55. > :24:01.housing. Fine. So people might have a wish to move after they've moved

:24:02. > :24:04.in, they might change or whatever, I'm sure that will be dealt with

:24:05. > :24:08.sensitively, but it was always built as permanent social housing. OK.

:24:09. > :24:13.Richard Burgon, in terms of commissioners, it's the Labour Mayor

:24:14. > :24:18.Sadiq Khan, suggesting it should be commissioners who run this council.

:24:19. > :24:22.Why would that be the best idea? I think it's important as well to

:24:23. > :24:27.listen to what local residents say about this. One of the advantages of

:24:28. > :24:33.getting commissioners in, and it's a rarely used power, but quite

:24:34. > :24:37.correctly a boyar that's there and it's correct that it's rarely used,

:24:38. > :24:43.that the Government can appoint commissioners to run a council on a

:24:44. > :24:46.day-to-day basis to make the day-to-day decisions. It's the right

:24:47. > :24:51.thing to happen. If it happens, they have to find a way where local

:24:52. > :24:55.residents still have their democratic representations made so

:24:56. > :24:58.that councillors would be in a position to hold the council to

:24:59. > :25:03.account. The Government's indicated it's not going to happen, so what is

:25:04. > :25:08.the next best option? We need to listen to local residents. We had a

:25:09. > :25:13.meeting in Parliament with residents including survivors. What was clear

:25:14. > :25:18.was that they feel still that things haven't been sorted out since that

:25:19. > :25:24.terrible fire. So all steps need to be taken. It seems to me there has

:25:25. > :25:28.been a bit of absence of Government, or the absence of the state Noel

:25:29. > :25:32.locally and nationally, so things haven't been sorted out, including

:25:33. > :25:36.rehousing, benefits, the provision of... I would like to see the

:25:37. > :25:41.provision of a social worker for every person affected. People are in

:25:42. > :25:45.shock and trauma. As the video that we just saw, showed people need

:25:46. > :25:51.access to mental health assistance as well. Are you shocked that that

:25:52. > :25:56.is not happening considering what those people have experienced? It is

:25:57. > :26:00.completely shocking. At the meeting in Parliament the other day, when I

:26:01. > :26:06.left to vote, there was a video taken of a woman speaking and she

:26:07. > :26:10.talked about a child having drawn a picture of the burning block with

:26:11. > :26:14.her friends flying out of the top and there are children walking past

:26:15. > :26:18.the remains of the building on the way to school and other residents

:26:19. > :26:23.seeing it every day. It can't be imagined the horror that people are

:26:24. > :26:27.still going through and people who may never be able to forget this. So

:26:28. > :26:31.it's important that practical help is provided to them. This is really

:26:32. > :26:36.a national disaster and the Government needs to do everything it

:26:37. > :26:41.can in order to sort this out to support people as best as they can.

:26:42. > :26:45.Is that a Government issue, the lack of support when it comes to mental

:26:46. > :26:48.health and dealing with what people experienced and witnessed and

:26:49. > :26:52.helping them through this deep, deep trauma, or is that a local council

:26:53. > :26:57.issue? I think the important thing... I think the two things

:26:58. > :27:06.merge for this purpose. The state has to work together. Richard paints

:27:07. > :27:10.a picture which is a little bit blacker than it actually is, that

:27:11. > :27:14.many of the services he calls for, there are social workers attached to

:27:15. > :27:18.people. Many things he calls for are being provided, the question is one

:27:19. > :27:22.of outreach and connection. But there's also the issue, and he puts

:27:23. > :27:30.his finger on it, that it doesn't matter what material and other

:27:31. > :27:32.support you give to the people who've had this experience, the

:27:33. > :27:37.trauma will be with them and can't be washed away by any action that

:27:38. > :27:41.can be taken. Of course. There'll still be suffering out there in

:27:42. > :27:44.people's heads even if material things are addressed, for decades to

:27:45. > :27:49.come. So we have to reek recognise that I think the Government is

:27:50. > :27:53.doing, and the local councils working there, are putting on a

:27:54. > :27:56.great array of services. They are perfectly aware that they are not

:27:57. > :28:00.getting through to everybody, they are doing their best to find people,

:28:01. > :28:04.they still don't even though exactly who was in the building, there might

:28:05. > :28:07.be people out there who've not identified themselves, so they've

:28:08. > :28:11.been doing their best to get out there, aware that they are not

:28:12. > :28:21.covering all of the ground. They really are trying to address that. I

:28:22. > :28:23.agree where Richard to the ex-than this is not going to be something

:28:24. > :28:27.that you will ever say the Government's done this, tick,

:28:28. > :28:32.sorted, done, there are always going to be things that could be better

:28:33. > :28:37.and that still need to be done probably for years to come but I

:28:38. > :28:41.think it's a little more, I think people are more aware of what

:28:42. > :28:44.Richard said, it's a matter of working together,en couragement

:28:45. > :28:50.rather than criticism is what people need at the moment. Thank you both

:28:51. > :28:55.very much. Daniel Moylan Conservative councillor at

:28:56. > :28:56.Kensington and Chelsea leader and Richard Burgon, Labour's

:28:57. > :28:58.spokesperson on justice. Thank you. Andy Murray starts the defence

:28:59. > :29:01.of his Wimbledon title today and says he is fit,

:29:02. > :29:03.despite suffering We'll be live there

:29:04. > :29:07.in just a moment. And claims that girls as young

:29:08. > :29:10.as nine are trying to get surgery on their vagina

:29:11. > :29:12.because they are upset Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:29:13. > :29:26.with a summary of today's news. The Foreign Secretaried added his

:29:27. > :29:31.voice to the growing calls from within the Cabinet for Theresa May

:29:32. > :29:36.to lift the 1% cap on pay rises for public sector workers. The limit is

:29:37. > :29:39.due to be in place until to 20. A Government source said Boris

:29:40. > :29:43.Johnson's strongly believes pay rises could be achieved without

:29:44. > :29:47.putting undue pressure on the public finances.

:29:48. > :29:49.Figures out today show that for the first time in nearly

:29:50. > :29:52.a decade, more nurses and midwives are leaving

:29:53. > :29:54.the profession in the UK, than joining it.

:29:55. > :29:57.In the year to March 2017, 20% more staff left

:29:58. > :29:59.the register run by the Nursing and Midwifery Council

:30:00. > :30:01.than signed up to it - with British nurses quitting

:30:02. > :30:05.The Department of Health says there's a national programme

:30:06. > :30:22.The Unite union says Bank of England workers are to stage a four date

:30:23. > :30:25.strike at the end of July over pay. Up to a third of workers have

:30:26. > :30:27.received no pay rise at all this year.

:30:28. > :30:29.The energy regulator, Ofgem, has announced plans to limit gas

:30:30. > :30:31.and electricity bills for more people on low incomes.

:30:32. > :30:34.The regulator says it will be consulting on how best to protect

:30:35. > :30:36.the most vulnerable customers from high prices, and around

:30:37. > :30:39.2 million people could face lower bills as a result.

:30:40. > :30:50.They've also announced plans to make switching energy suppliers easier.

:30:51. > :30:54.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

:30:55. > :31:04.Back to you. Salary is at Wimbledon. Let's talk about Andy Murray. How

:31:05. > :31:09.ready is he to start the defence of his title? I tell you what, if he is

:31:10. > :31:13.half as ready as this court he will be fine. Can I go slightly off

:31:14. > :31:23.script and see just look at the grass? It looks like velvet. Over

:31:24. > :31:26.there, oh, you just missed it, but someone has been over there mopping

:31:27. > :31:31.up the extra bits of grass, but this is where we will see Andy Murray at

:31:32. > :31:34.Centre Court at one o'clock, of course the reigning Wimbledon

:31:35. > :31:37.champion, and he is such a popular player here, of course the home

:31:38. > :31:43.favourite, but he has been really struggling with a hip injury in the

:31:44. > :31:51.last couple of weeks. Pulled out of two exhibition matches last week,

:31:52. > :31:55.due to play as kind of warm up last week. Obviously some suggesting his

:31:56. > :32:00.injury is fairly serious but we do know he has been practising on grass

:32:01. > :32:04.all week. He just wanted to take it at his own pace. He was heading

:32:05. > :32:09.brilliantly last week. It is just how good his movement will be around

:32:10. > :32:12.the court with that hip injury. But the top four men's players are all

:32:13. > :32:16.probably carrying a bit of an injury. They have been around a long

:32:17. > :32:20.time and to play the sport at the highest level you will get hurt. And

:32:21. > :32:27.the British women's number one Johanna Konta has had problems as

:32:28. > :32:31.well. How is she? She had terrible time last week, playing at

:32:32. > :32:35.Eastbourne and she had a shocking fall. You know when your legs just

:32:36. > :32:39.go from under you? That happened to her. She took a tumble when she was

:32:40. > :32:44.playing, I really nasty fall, and hit her head quite badly. She has

:32:45. > :32:49.had all sorts of checks over the weekend, checked for concussion, I

:32:50. > :32:53.believe, but in her interview yesterday she said she was feeling

:32:54. > :32:55.fine, as well as expected, that there was no concussion, and she

:32:56. > :33:00.said she comes into this Wimbledon feeling is that as she possibly can.

:33:01. > :33:03.But I know she is the British number one and there is a huge and of

:33:04. > :33:09.pressure on her and that is something she will try not to think

:33:10. > :33:14.about, will try to block it out completely. Let's talk about former

:33:15. > :33:18.winner Petrarch Kvitova, injured in a knife attack, but the beauty is

:33:19. > :33:24.fancy her to pick up a third title here? Wouldn't that be just the most

:33:25. > :33:29.amazing story. Her playing Handel was stabbed in her home in a knife

:33:30. > :33:34.attack and the attacker stabbed her playing hand with a knife -- playing

:33:35. > :33:38.hand was stabbed. You would think, is this woman ever going to step

:33:39. > :33:42.onto court again, firstly because of the feeling in her hand, will she

:33:43. > :33:45.ever recover physically? But also how do you recover mentally from

:33:46. > :33:50.that, to have the confidence to come back and play at the highest level.

:33:51. > :33:53.She has admitted she has some numbness still in the hand and is

:33:54. > :33:57.hoping she will get full feeling back. She played in Birmingham a

:33:58. > :34:11.couple of weeks ago. She won. She was fantastic. But she

:34:12. > :34:14.says she is not even thinking about winning Wimbledon. She said she has

:34:15. > :34:17.already won the biggest battle of this year simply by being back in

:34:18. > :34:20.playing the sport she loves. Thank you, Sally. I think we will speak to

:34:21. > :34:23.you every day at Wimbledon. That will be lovely. I am looking forward

:34:24. > :34:42.to it. Good morning. It is 9:34am. Welcome to the programme.

:34:43. > :34:46.This programme has learnt that a girl as young as nine has sought

:34:47. > :34:48.surgery on her vagina because they are distressed

:34:49. > :34:52.Doctors say they're seeing more and more young teenagers

:34:53. > :34:55.who are very distressed with how this part of their body looks -

:34:56. > :34:58.even though their body is healthy and they have no medical

:34:59. > :35:01.Labiaplasty is an operation which is not recommended for those

:35:02. > :35:04.under the age of 18 because the body has not finished developing.

:35:05. > :35:06.Some medical experts are comparing the unnecessary operation on young

:35:07. > :35:10.Our reporter Jean Mackenzie has this exclusive report -

:35:11. > :35:11.which as you'd expect contains frank conversations

:35:12. > :35:14.and you may not want young children to hear.

:35:15. > :35:16.In our visual, virtual world there is an increasing pressure

:35:17. > :35:21.But what about the parts not on show?

:35:22. > :35:27.I guess I'd just picked up from somewhere that it wasn't neat

:35:28. > :35:30.enough or tidy enough, and I think I wanted it to be smaller.

:35:31. > :35:32.Doctors have told us they are seeing more

:35:33. > :35:41.girls upset with how their genitals look.

:35:42. > :35:47.I'm seeing young girls around 11, 12, 13, thinking there is

:35:48. > :35:52.something wrong with their vulva, that they're the wrong

:35:53. > :35:54.shape, the wrong size, and really expressing almost disgust.

:35:55. > :35:56.And more often than not, they're after cosmetic

:35:57. > :36:04.Girls will sometimes come out with comments like,

:36:05. > :36:07.I just hate it, I just want it removed, I want it treated.

:36:08. > :36:10.And for a girl to feel that way about any part of her body,

:36:11. > :36:31.let alone a part that's intimate, is really upsetting.

:36:32. > :36:33.Naomi is one of the country's leading adolescent gynaecologists.

:36:34. > :36:36.And I've come to meet her in Bristol after hearing how concerned

:36:37. > :36:39.she is about the number of girls seeking her help.

:36:40. > :36:42.Over the last few years, whereas I might have seen one or two

:36:43. > :36:49.patients every few months, I'm now seeing patients every week.

:36:50. > :36:54.I would say typically they will be mid-adolescence, 14, 15,

:36:55. > :37:00.The youngest girl I've seen is a girl of nine.

:37:01. > :37:02.Almost universally the solution they are seeking

:37:03. > :37:05.is to have an operation, to have surgery.

:37:06. > :37:09.The surgery is called labioplasty - it's where the lips of the vagina

:37:10. > :37:16.It can be done for cosmetic reasons, or if they're causing a woman pain.

:37:17. > :37:19.GPs and doctors will refer a girl and say, we are worried

:37:20. > :37:22.that the appearance looks strange, looks wrong, looks abnormal in some

:37:23. > :37:25.way, the inner lips of the labia are too long or are pendulous

:37:26. > :37:29.or abnormal, and so a girl will come and see me and she'll be

:37:30. > :37:32.really worried, and her mum will probably be worried.

:37:33. > :37:36.Then I'll offer them an examination, and 100% of the time I will find

:37:37. > :37:38.they have perfectly normal anatomy and there's no

:37:39. > :37:42.So how do you feel when you see these girls wanting surgery

:37:43. > :37:45.on their genitals and you deem them to be what you call normal?

:37:46. > :37:47.I find it very worrying that we are normalising cosmetic

:37:48. > :37:59.surgery on the genital area for a generation.

:38:00. > :38:02.I think when I was about like 13, 14, I started to wonder why

:38:03. > :38:07.Anna decided when she was younger that she would have the operation

:38:08. > :38:19.I guess I just picked up from somewhere, like, it wasn't neat

:38:20. > :38:22.enough or tidy enough and I think I wanted it to be smaller.

:38:23. > :38:25.Where were you getting the idea that you didn't look normal?

:38:26. > :38:27.Sometimes people around me were watching porn and stuff,

:38:28. > :38:30.and I just had the idea it should be symmetrical and like

:38:31. > :38:33.I guess I just thought what everyone else looked

:38:34. > :38:35.like because I hadn't seen any normal, everyday areas

:38:36. > :38:40.And why did you decide that you wanted surgery?

:38:41. > :38:43.I didn't want to be abnormal, I didn't want to look different

:38:44. > :38:46.because I thought I looked different from other people.

:38:47. > :38:48.I remember looking back through magazines and things

:38:49. > :38:53.like that and I remember seeing that as one of the options and went, oh,

:38:54. > :38:56.OK, so if there's surgery options for it clearly I'm not the only one

:38:57. > :39:03.And it was, like, maybe it'll not be that big of a deal,

:39:04. > :39:06.snip one side so it looks the same, symmetrical, loads of

:39:07. > :39:13.I just wasn't seeing girls coming with these anxieties before.

:39:14. > :39:18.She started to worry when her young patients began

:39:19. > :39:23.Since then she's surveyed others in her trust

:39:24. > :39:33.I think what's really distressing is the disgust.

:39:34. > :39:37.I remember the girl pointing at her genitalia and her nose sort

:39:38. > :39:44.of wrinkling in disgust, and saying, what's this?

:39:45. > :39:49.As if there really doesn't seem to be a knowledge now

:39:50. > :39:52.of what one should look like - there seems to be this very narrow

:39:53. > :39:56.What is the perceived spectrum of normal versus the reality

:39:57. > :40:02.That the inner lips, if you like, should be invisible,

:40:03. > :40:09.a bit like a Barbie doll, you don't see anything.

:40:10. > :40:11.But the reality is that there is great variation

:40:12. > :40:14.in the size of the inner lips, that some of them quite

:40:15. > :40:19.You feel very strongly that women and girls particularly shouldn't be

:40:20. > :40:21.seeking the surgery and shouldn't be having it.

:40:22. > :40:23.The labia is normal, healthy, erogenous tissue.

:40:24. > :40:25.Why on earth should one be removing it?

:40:26. > :40:38.The NHS says this surgery shouldn't be carried out on girls

:40:39. > :40:40.before they turn 18, as their genitals won't

:40:41. > :40:46.And a few years ago, they changed the rules so that GPs

:40:47. > :40:48.could no longer refer patients who had cosmetic concerns

:40:49. > :40:51.There had to be a physical issue that was causing

:40:52. > :40:55.But as we've heard, that hasn't stopped

:40:56. > :41:01.Last year more than 200 girls under the age of 18 had

:41:02. > :41:25.Because the area hasn't finished developing.

:41:26. > :41:27.That is akin to 156 girls under the age of 15

:41:28. > :41:32.The NHS team who gave us that data were keen to point out

:41:33. > :41:34.that the NHS would never operate for cosmetic reasons.

:41:35. > :41:36.Do you think some of these surgeries that have been

:41:37. > :41:43.I find it very hard to believe that there are 156 girls under

:41:44. > :41:46.the age of 15 who had a medical abnormality with the labia that

:41:47. > :41:52.I think that's extraordinary, and as a paediatric and adolescent

:41:53. > :41:54.gynaecologists I have never seen a girl under the age

:41:55. > :41:57.of 15 who has ever needed to have an operation on her labia.

:41:58. > :42:00.There are medical practitioners up and down the country who must be

:42:01. > :42:05.And I think we need to be trying to do more about it.

:42:06. > :42:08.We know the NHS now says it won't perform this operation

:42:09. > :42:19.Do you think girls are wising up to this, and over-promoting physical

:42:20. > :42:25.I think there is awareness that they are more likely

:42:26. > :42:27.to have the operation if they say that it's causing physical

:42:28. > :42:32.discomfort, interfering with sex, interfering with sport.

:42:33. > :42:35.They feel that will tick that box and they are more likely

:42:36. > :42:40.But some of them are genuinely distressed.

:42:41. > :42:42.They are so convinced there is something wrong

:42:43. > :42:44.and they feel so embarrassed and ashamed of their appearance

:42:45. > :42:58.So what can be done to tackle the distress that

:42:59. > :43:14.Well, a lot can be achieved in schools by teaching girls, and boys,

:43:15. > :43:19.And I've come to this school, which is working really hard

:43:20. > :43:24.We've gone from Marilyn Monroe to Kim Kardashian in the past 50 years.

:43:25. > :43:26.And the reason that that's happened is because the existence

:43:27. > :43:28.of the fitness, fashion and beauty industries, to an extent,

:43:29. > :43:31.rely on inventing new things for us to worry about.

:43:32. > :43:34.New parts of our body that we are supposed to apologise for.

:43:35. > :43:36.Because if they can keep us insecure, they

:43:37. > :43:40.Natasha Devon goes into schools to talk to teenagers

:43:41. > :43:48.There's a lot of young women who are going to have surgery

:43:49. > :43:50.on their genitals because they think they are not normal.

:43:51. > :43:53.They are normal, but pornography has created this unrealistic expectation

:43:54. > :43:59.There are people who will try and convince you that you're not

:44:00. > :44:11.There is a pressure, particularly on girls,

:44:12. > :44:13.to attain perfection in all areas of their life.

:44:14. > :44:15.They feel pressure to perform academically, to seem

:44:16. > :44:17.like they are popular, to be sporty, and additionally

:44:18. > :44:25.How important is it to educate girls on this stuff?

:44:26. > :44:27.We can teach children as early as possible to question, and

:44:28. > :44:30.have a really healthy scepticism for the world around them.

:44:31. > :44:33.And that prepares them for what is, let's face it,

:44:34. > :44:35.because of technology, quite an uncertain future.

:44:36. > :44:38.So if you chase what ever is considered to be

:44:39. > :44:40.beautiful at any one given moment in history you will be

:44:41. > :44:42.chasing it forever, because it will always change.

:44:43. > :44:47.It's great to see some of the work that is being done in schools

:44:48. > :44:50.but now I really want to understand some of the pressure

:44:51. > :45:06.How much pressure do you guys feel to look a certain way?

:45:07. > :45:20.There is a lot of pressure, especially on social media.

:45:21. > :45:28.It's all pictures working out or looking a certain way and you look

:45:29. > :45:33.at yourself and go, oh, I don't look like that at all.

:45:34. > :45:35.Boys have like a certain image of a girl

:45:36. > :45:38.and then they think like you should have to work towards that image.

:45:39. > :45:42.They can be whatever they want but you have to be a certain thing.

:45:43. > :45:44.Do you worry about the images that boys

:45:45. > :45:47.are seeing with pornography and how it's affecting what they think girls

:45:48. > :45:49.I just think they are really unrealistic.

:45:50. > :45:51.Everyone either has fake boobs all they have

:45:52. > :45:55.But when a boy or someone or a couple go to have sex,

:45:56. > :45:58.they think that their body is going to look like that.

:45:59. > :46:01.Do you ever worry about the appearance or that part of

:46:02. > :46:09.There's an expectation that you shouldn't have it really hairy.

:46:10. > :46:14.There's just like an image that pubic hair is dirty.

:46:15. > :46:17.There was like one thing and Snapchat a few weeks ago and

:46:18. > :46:19.it was like, there's four different types of vaginas.

:46:20. > :46:21.They were categorising it into four or five

:46:22. > :46:26.So it was like, oh, what if it doesn't fit into that?

:46:27. > :46:27.It's interesting because I considered

:46:28. > :46:30.myself quite confident, and then when you think

:46:31. > :46:32.about it, we do a lot of

:46:33. > :46:36.The term "Designer vagina", which I hate

:46:37. > :46:39.using, that really has put a certain stamp on this surgery.

:46:40. > :46:41.Which in some respects is no different to breast

:46:42. > :46:44.The majority of labioplasties are done by private cosmetic

:46:45. > :46:47.surgeons on women once they've turned 18.

:46:48. > :46:50.And the industry is criticised for normalising the

:46:51. > :46:56.procedure and encouraging these insecurities.

:46:57. > :46:59.Some of the medical practitioners we've spoken to say

:47:00. > :47:01.that a lot of the young girls wanting this operation actually,

:47:02. > :47:04.when they look at them, have no need for it.

:47:05. > :47:10.There's an awful lot of that about but I have seen the patients

:47:11. > :47:14.anywhere between 16 and 21 who have never had a boyfriend.

:47:15. > :47:17.They've never even engaged in an intimate

:47:18. > :47:20.relationship because they are so concerned about that.

:47:21. > :47:22.But you rightly mention that this is a

:47:23. > :47:28.How do you feel operating on people for

:47:29. > :47:33.I do it because I can get people to be

:47:34. > :47:38.It changes that outlook in life, it changes the

:47:39. > :47:41.feelings they have about themselves, it changes their self esteem and

:47:42. > :47:47.And I think if you can change that with something

:47:48. > :47:50.relatively simple, like an hour-long operation, it's a worthwhile thing

:47:51. > :47:55.There are those who vehemently disagree.

:47:56. > :47:58.Who say the parallels between this surgery and

:47:59. > :48:08.female genital mutilation are uncomfortable.

:48:09. > :48:12.When we think of the horror of FGM is that comparisonfair?

:48:13. > :48:16.The law is clear, we should not be performing operations and

:48:17. > :48:20.surgery which is irreversible on developing bodies for cultural

:48:21. > :48:25.The Western culture, the current culture, is to have very

:48:26. > :48:28.small labia minora, for them to be tucked inside the outer vagina lips.

:48:29. > :48:35.Female genital mutilation is clearly not a

:48:36. > :48:38.procedure that we can support in any way, shape or form.

:48:39. > :48:43.To even use it in the same sentence as labiaplasty surgery is not only

:48:44. > :48:53.If we should not be doing labial surgery

:48:54. > :48:56.then there needs to be a societal response and a decision made.

:48:57. > :48:59.But before that decision, the question

:49:00. > :49:03.that needs addressing is, why now is there such

:49:04. > :49:06.a demand for this surgery and from such young girls?

:49:07. > :49:10.There isn't enough education and it should

:49:11. > :49:11.start quite young because puberty is starting

:49:12. > :49:13.younger and younger, as to

:49:14. > :49:16.what your body is going to look like.

:49:17. > :49:19.And explaining to them that there is a range, like we all look

:49:20. > :49:22.different in our faces, we look different in that part of our bodies

:49:23. > :49:28.I've spent some time trying to talk to them

:49:29. > :49:31.about the anatomies and we've also got pictures of women with no

:49:32. > :49:35.medical problems and no concerns with that part of the body, and to

:49:36. > :49:38.realise that women can be all shapes and sizes and these are all healthy

:49:39. > :49:42.I think it goes some way towards alleviating that.

:49:43. > :49:45.And while education is crucial, Naomi

:49:46. > :49:48.says some of the responsibilities must live with the professionals.

:49:49. > :49:50.I don't think it should be performed.

:49:51. > :49:53.Certainly on girls under the age of 18.

:49:54. > :49:57.Over the age of 18 it should be seen for what it is which a cosmetic

:49:58. > :50:04.procedure which people may choose to buy.

:50:05. > :50:15.For me, I stopped worrying so much about how I looked

:50:16. > :50:18.and realised there were more versions of normality.

:50:19. > :50:21.And are you glad you didn't get it done?

:50:22. > :50:23.Yes, looking back now I'm really glad I didn't

:50:24. > :50:47.Where are the mums, that's what I want to know. If you are a mum, get

:50:48. > :50:51.in touch. Anthony f on Facebook says I don't know any teenager who isn't

:50:52. > :50:57.happy with some part of their body but they learn to live with it. Some

:50:58. > :51:05.should be treated by psychologists before surgery. Joe says this idea

:51:06. > :51:13.of surgery is ridiculous and another says it should only be done if it's

:51:14. > :51:16.an issue. Another says it's perfection being demanded. Can you

:51:17. > :51:20.imagine being a mum taking your daughter to talk about that with a

:51:21. > :51:23.gynaecologist, aged nine, 13, 14? NHS England told us it carries out

:51:24. > :51:26.this type of surgery for complex clinical conditions,

:51:27. > :51:28.but not for cosmetic reasons. It added that Clinical Commissioning

:51:29. > :51:31.Groups would have their own policies about surgery for cosmetic reasons

:51:32. > :51:46.that may include this procedure. Pressure continues to mount for

:51:47. > :51:50.Theresa May to scrap the public sector pay cap. We talked about this

:51:51. > :51:56.last week. That pressure is continuing on the Prime Minister.

:51:57. > :51:59.Keith on text says, with NHS Trust CEOs earning ?250,000 plus bonus and

:52:00. > :52:03.benefits and their immediate subordinates close behind, get rid

:52:04. > :52:08.of them and give front line staff an increase and stop using agencies.

:52:09. > :52:13.Matt on e-mail says pay cap paid for easily by scrapping HSII. A pay rise

:52:14. > :52:17.is in the national interest, but HSII is not. This texter says, if

:52:18. > :52:21.funding is needed for nurses, how about freezing the salaries of

:52:22. > :52:25.senior management and consultants on salaries of ?80,000 and above. Peter

:52:26. > :52:31.says use foreign aid and look after Britain first. When we are sorted we

:52:32. > :52:35.can then help others. Zoren on e-mail, the 1% cap has been unfair

:52:36. > :52:39.and the public sector's played and paid its part in helping the

:52:40. > :52:45.country, however does the money have to be found from elsewhere? If so,

:52:46. > :52:49.where? Labour plans to spend its way out of the financial problem and

:52:50. > :52:54.that is wrong. This texter says, there shouldn't be any question on

:52:55. > :52:56.how to pay for it, we are one of the richest countries, we will find the

:52:57. > :52:57.money. Teachers have expressed serious

:52:58. > :53:01.concerns about a law which obliges them to report students showing

:53:02. > :53:05.signs of being radicalised. It's now been two years

:53:06. > :53:08.since schools and colleges implemented the Prevent Duty,

:53:09. > :53:11.a key part of the government's strategy to divert people

:53:12. > :53:13.from violent extremism. Three Counties Radio has obtained

:53:14. > :53:18.the first detailed report into how teachers and college

:53:19. > :53:21.staff are adapting. It says they've responded

:53:22. > :53:27.professionally - but there are worries

:53:28. > :53:29.about the effect it's having Usman Azad has this

:53:30. > :53:38.report from Luton. The year 8s at Stockwood Park

:53:39. > :53:41.Academy in Luton are about to get How to recognise it,

:53:42. > :53:46.how to reject it, and how to protect themselves from

:53:47. > :53:48.those who promote it. I want to start off straightaway

:53:49. > :53:51.with what you see on Who can raise their

:53:52. > :53:55.hands quickly and Irfan Chishti is a

:53:56. > :54:08.Home Office approved He travels from school to school

:54:09. > :54:14.delivering these sessions, raising awareness of extremism

:54:15. > :54:16.and radicalisation. And hey, that word there, who said

:54:17. > :54:22.it over here, look at what they The government strategy to tackle

:54:23. > :54:52.radicalisation and Identify people mainly the young

:54:53. > :54:56.at risk of being drawn A terror organisation,

:54:57. > :55:05.their propaganda is pretty loud And that's the kind

:55:06. > :55:10.of message they are putting Prevent is one of his four

:55:11. > :55:16.strands of the government's counterterrorism strategy

:55:17. > :55:20.known as Contest. Created by the Labour government,

:55:21. > :55:23.its remit was widened by Teachers are now on the

:55:24. > :55:30.front line of this. Two years ago Prevent became a legal

:55:31. > :55:33.duty for schools and colleges. They are now obliged

:55:34. > :55:35.to show due regard to the need to prevent people

:55:36. > :55:38.from being drawn into terrorism. This means spotting people's

:55:39. > :55:42.vulnerability to radicalisation and referring them to

:55:43. > :56:07.specialist support. According to the research, teachers

:56:08. > :56:15.by and large accept the Prevent study. Staff were sceptical as to

:56:16. > :56:20.whether the duty would identify genuine cases of young people that

:56:21. > :56:23.have been drawn into terrorism. They felt such young people would be more

:56:24. > :56:26.likely to be able to hide what they were doing so they didn't think the

:56:27. > :56:30.duty itself would be necessarily able to identify those people. In

:56:31. > :56:35.Luton, these concerns are felt across broad sections of the Muslim

:56:36. > :56:41.community, despite more than a third of Prevent referrals nationwide

:56:42. > :56:45.referring to far right extremism. Mr Malik believes children subject to

:56:46. > :56:49.referrals can end up on watch lists. He also thinks it's a big ask for

:56:50. > :56:53.teachers. The fact is, no teacher has gone into the teaching industry

:56:54. > :56:56.with the intention of policing, because that's what Prevent is,

:56:57. > :57:00.policing the community. Teachers are being asked to do a job which they

:57:01. > :57:05.haven't been trained to do. The impact Prevent has on Muslim boys

:57:06. > :57:12.and girls, is that it alienates them from the community, makes them into

:57:13. > :57:16.a suspect community, it adds to the narrative that prevails and

:57:17. > :57:20.encourages discrimination, hate crime and Islamophobia. From that,

:57:21. > :57:23.that can only create more hate, more resentment and disconnect from the

:57:24. > :57:28.wider community. I think training is a really important part of what we

:57:29. > :57:33.do as professionals in education. Our staff are very well trained,

:57:34. > :57:37.they're trained by the Prevent team and actually by our own staff who're

:57:38. > :57:44.trained up to deliver the sessions. That means staff are really skilled

:57:45. > :57:46.at spotting early signs, things that might seem reasonably

:57:47. > :57:51.inconsequencetial but actually when they add up could be something

:57:52. > :57:55.really major. For the Government, Prevent remains the central plank of

:57:56. > :57:59.their antiradicalisation strategy. There hawk talk it will be

:58:00. > :58:04.relaunched or rebranded. We have been told more likely there'll be

:58:05. > :58:07.extra funding. I don't hang up on the word Prevent because at the

:58:08. > :58:10.heart of this it's about safeguarding, that is the key

:58:11. > :58:15.message for everyone. The proof is the fact that actually in many

:58:16. > :58:20.areas, we are seeing far right sometimes outstripping referrals

:58:21. > :58:24.from the Muslim communities because actually people are vulnerable to

:58:25. > :58:28.being groomed no matter who they are and what their background is.

:58:29. > :58:35.Pakistan have done well in the cricket... Back at Stockwood Park

:58:36. > :58:39.academy, the fun assembly is being wrapped up. The school is located in

:58:40. > :58:43.the part of town where the English Defence League was founded. So how

:58:44. > :58:48.did the audience respond to today's session? A loft of my friends got

:58:49. > :58:53.discrimination after a lot of the attacks and that was quite upsetting

:58:54. > :58:57.to me. Now the fact that I know that it's, you know, that I can actually

:58:58. > :59:02.tell these people that that is not what they stand for as people, it's

:59:03. > :59:06.like not their values that those people are going out and showing,

:59:07. > :59:11.it's actually quite like the opposite. It teaches us about how

:59:12. > :59:18.the world around us works, what happens and how stupid people can be

:59:19. > :59:22.in the sense that it shows that they think Muslims' religion, it's their

:59:23. > :59:30.religion but the religion shows they should do the opposite of what they

:59:31. > :59:36.do. Tremendousth the Prevent remains an issue. The Government insists

:59:37. > :59:40.it's our best bet to keep vulnerable minds from being preyed upon.

:59:41. > :59:47.It's estimated half of all referrals to Prevent are about under 18s

:59:48. > :59:55.thought to account for about 2,000 young people, the youngest of which

:59:56. > :00:00.was four. Four! We can speak now to Atiq Malik a lawyer and member of

:00:01. > :00:10.Prevent watch. He's represented families. Also Irfan who you saw in

:00:11. > :00:15.the film, cofounder of Me You and Imam of Salford Central Mosque. Good

:00:16. > :00:21.morning. Mr Malik first of all, this report that we have seen suggests

:00:22. > :00:26.there is no evidence of widespread resistance to Prevent by teachers,

:00:27. > :00:27.yet significant concern about the stigmatisation of Muslim students.

:00:28. > :00:51.How much is that a problem for you? a and details, what vote for the

:00:52. > :00:54.three-year-old? -- without giving names and details. The child could

:00:55. > :00:58.not pronounce properly what the word cucumber was and they were referred

:00:59. > :01:02.to Prevent for that. It was a very shocking story, known as the

:01:03. > :01:10.cucumber case, widely reported in the media. What did they think the

:01:11. > :01:17.child was saying? They thought that the child was saying cooker bomb.

:01:18. > :01:20.Cooker bomb? This is true? It was reported widespread in the UK and

:01:21. > :01:29.internationally, because it caused so much shock, as do Windows the

:01:30. > :01:30.Prevent duty start or stop. Three-year-olds, two-year-olds,

:01:31. > :01:47.one-year-olds, how far gone as this? And whose responsibility is this,

:01:48. > :01:52.parents, teachers? And public services are bursting at the seams,

:01:53. > :01:58.the teachers,... And teachers are not complaining about this duty.

:01:59. > :02:03.There is no "Widespread resistance to Prevent by teachers." It is

:02:04. > :02:07.shocking to hear that because the National union of teachers has

:02:08. > :02:12.repeatedly voiced concerns, asked for the scrapping of the Prevent

:02:13. > :02:17.duty, asked for an independent review of the Prevent resume in its

:02:18. > :02:22.entirety. Another interesting point is this. The United Nations have

:02:23. > :02:25.also published a report which was published by the United Nations, the

:02:26. > :02:30.human rights commission, and what that says is that the Prevent duty

:02:31. > :02:34.is not only inherently flawed and not only does it feel to meet its

:02:35. > :02:40.objectives, but it adds to the problem it is trying to resolve. And

:02:41. > :02:48.it says that it actually goes against the grain of human rights

:02:49. > :02:53.and democracy. Let's bring in Irfan on that. Goes against the grain of

:02:54. > :02:58.democracy. How do you respond to what Mr is saying? Esau and that at

:02:59. > :03:16.how we deal with this on the ground level with students and staff -- how

:03:17. > :03:20.do you deal with what Mr Attiq Malik is saying? This is one flawed

:03:21. > :03:27.response. The key issue in this whole agenda is that Prevent deals

:03:28. > :03:31.with situations as a safeguarding issue just as it deals with any

:03:32. > :03:34.other. We have now been working with the school and education sector for

:03:35. > :03:37.a number of years and overwhelmingly the response as you got from that

:03:38. > :03:41.report as well and I'm speaking to you as a practitioner the ground,

:03:42. > :03:46.speaking to teachers, the confidence they now have because we are using

:03:47. > :03:49.the word safeguarding. I am an ex-teacher myself and safeguarding

:03:50. > :03:53.is bread and butter for people. People understand that if there is

:03:54. > :03:58.harm, regardless of what type of harm, then teachers have a duty to

:03:59. > :04:05.safeguard and to deal with that in the appropriate manner. All right.

:04:06. > :04:09.One final point to you, Mr Malik. Ben Wallace, Security Minister, says

:04:10. > :04:16.150 people have been dissuaded from fighting in Syria. You must welcome

:04:17. > :04:19.that. I am glad you raise that. In actual fact Amber Rudd said it was

:04:20. > :04:24.150 people stop from travelling to Syria, but this makes no sense. If

:04:25. > :04:28.150 people were stopped travelling to Syria, which Amber Rudd said...

:04:29. > :04:32.We can argue about the figures. It might be ten, might be 150, but you

:04:33. > :04:37.must welcome the fact they have been dissuaded? That is the point. If

:04:38. > :04:42.they have been dissuaded, that is a criminal act, preparatory acts of

:04:43. > :04:45.terrorism. They said 150 people stopped from committing these

:04:46. > :04:48.offences, these offences committed over the last year. Looking at the

:04:49. > :04:53.figures, in the Hall of England over the last year only 61 people have

:04:54. > :04:57.been convicted of terrorism -- in the entirety of England. Terrorism

:04:58. > :05:01.in that sense includes preparing to go to another country, sending money

:05:02. > :05:04.to somebody, going on the Internet and looking at how to make a bomb,

:05:05. > :05:10.Sokoli 60 people in the Hall of the country last year were convicted --

:05:11. > :05:15.Suyal is only 60 people were convicted of terrorist related acts,

:05:16. > :05:19.where does their 150, from? Is it F, another Tory lie from the election,

:05:20. > :05:23.what is going on? We have to leave it there. We will bring you the news

:05:24. > :05:28.and sport a little late in a moment, but first the weather.

:05:29. > :05:34.Thank you. Good morning. We have had a fairly decent start to July, the

:05:35. > :05:37.weekend not so bad at all, and this weekend starts off decent. A bit of

:05:38. > :05:41.rain expected on Tuesday but before we get that far you can see one or

:05:42. > :05:46.two showers across England and Wales heading into this afternoon. And

:05:47. > :05:50.outside chance perhaps of catching a shower at Wimbledon but sunny spells

:05:51. > :05:52.across many parts. The cloud is increasing in Northern Ireland and

:05:53. > :06:02.run this afternoon and temperatures getting into the high teens and low

:06:03. > :06:04.20s, but that rain in Northern Ireland will move its way gradually

:06:05. > :06:07.into southern Scotland, northern England, then patchy rain for

:06:08. > :06:09.England and Wales as well. Elsewhere should be dry. 11-15 for

:06:10. > :06:12.temperatures. During Tuesday it is that northern part of England and

:06:13. > :06:16.southern Scotland, Northern Ireland, that will stay quite wet throughout

:06:17. > :06:19.the day. The far north of Scotland is largely dry with sunny spells and

:06:20. > :06:22.sunny spells developing for a good part of England and Wales during the

:06:23. > :06:26.afternoon as well. Here, temperatures up to about 25 degrees,

:06:27. > :06:28.but a bit chillier especially when you're stuck beneath that cloud and

:06:29. > :06:34.rain at 13-14. Goodbye. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:06:35. > :06:45.with a summary of today's news. The Foreign Secretary's

:06:46. > :06:48.added his voice to the growing calls from within the Cabinet

:06:49. > :06:51.for Theresa May to lift the 1% cap on pay rises

:06:52. > :06:53.for public sector workers. The limit is due to be

:06:54. > :06:55.in place until 2020. But a government source said

:06:56. > :06:58.Boris Johnson "strongly" believed pay rises could be achieved

:06:59. > :07:00.without putting undue pressure Figures out today show that

:07:01. > :07:03.for the first time in nearly a decade, more nurses

:07:04. > :07:05.and midwives are leaving the profession in the UK,

:07:06. > :07:07.than joining it. In the year to March 2017,

:07:08. > :07:10.20% more staff left the register run by the Nursing

:07:11. > :07:12.and Midwifery Council than signed up to it -

:07:13. > :07:14.with British nurses quitting The Department of Health says

:07:15. > :07:18.there's a national programme The Unite union says Bank of England

:07:19. > :07:27.workers are to stage a four-day strike from the 31st of July

:07:28. > :07:29.in a dispute over pay. The Union said staff were angry

:07:30. > :07:32.they have been given a below inflation pay offer for the second

:07:33. > :07:35.year running with up to a third of workers will receive no pay

:07:36. > :07:43.rise at all this year. President Trump has been accused

:07:44. > :07:45.of inciting violence against journalists,

:07:46. > :07:47.after he tweeted a spoof video showing him assaulting a man

:07:48. > :07:49.with a CNN logo super-imposed In the wrestling video,

:07:50. > :07:52.he's shown punching the CNN The President regularly

:07:53. > :07:55.accuses CNN and other media outlets of broadcasting

:07:56. > :07:57.what he calls, "fake news". It's been re-tweeted

:07:58. > :08:12.more than 250,000 times. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:08:13. > :08:19.News - more at 10.30. The gates open at the All England

:08:20. > :08:26.Club in the next half an hour. Andy Murray should also

:08:27. > :08:32.be arriving very soon. He says he's good to go

:08:33. > :08:34.for Wimbledon fortnight but it's looked touch and go for the past

:08:35. > :08:37.week or so. He's been putting in extra practice

:08:38. > :08:40.this week to try and shake off Remember, he lost in the first

:08:41. > :08:44.round of Queens a fortnight ago and he also had to pull out

:08:45. > :08:47.of a couple of exhibition events so he's really short

:08:48. > :08:49.on grasscourt matches as he looks He's first up on Centre Court,

:08:50. > :08:53.as is the tradition, and the world number 134

:08:54. > :08:55.Alexander Bublik shouldn't cause him too many problems,

:08:56. > :09:06.but Murray knows his preparations It's just a little bit stressful

:09:07. > :09:12.because at this point, this period of the year, right before Slam, and

:09:13. > :09:15.the biggest tournament for me of the year, as Brit, you want to be

:09:16. > :09:18.preparing, out there practising, and I haven't been in that position

:09:19. > :09:23.before really, but you just have to try to stay patient, stay calm.

:09:24. > :09:27.Johanna Konta's fitness has also been a worry.

:09:28. > :09:29.She had a nasty fall at Eastbourne in the qaurterfinals,

:09:30. > :09:32.and hurt her back, that forced her to pull out

:09:33. > :09:46.She says she is "recovering really well."

:09:47. > :09:51.She's on Court One - against Hsieh Suwei from Taiwan.

:09:52. > :09:55.She is seeded sixth at Wimbledon. BBC Two is a good place to start for

:09:56. > :10:06.the coverage. Britain's Chris Froome

:10:07. > :10:08.and Geraint Thomas had a lucky escape on the second stage

:10:09. > :10:10.of the Tour de France. They recovered from this crash

:10:11. > :10:13.to reach the finish in Liege. The moment was captured

:10:14. > :10:15.by photographer Chris Auld. Despite the look of panic the riders

:10:16. > :10:18.were not badly hurt. Reigning champion Froome

:10:19. > :10:22.remains sixth overall. That is all the sport for now and I

:10:23. > :10:25.will be back with your headlines in the next half an hour or so. Thank

:10:26. > :10:28.you. And thank you although much for your comment inhabit this pay cap.

:10:29. > :10:32.There has been pressure on various ministers to lift it -- your

:10:33. > :10:36.comments in this morning about the pay cap. One teacher, I have not had

:10:37. > :10:40.a pay rise since I joined the profession but in thes have had an

:10:41. > :10:45.11% pay rise. Teaching is now unbearable and so many are leaving.

:10:46. > :10:50.As code to pay for the increase, I don't remember the BBC asking how we

:10:51. > :10:54.would pay for the bombs we sent to Syria recently -- when asked how we

:10:55. > :10:59.will pay for the increase. A similar point here. The Lord's claim ?300 a

:11:00. > :11:06.day on expenses. Public service employees deserve the same

:11:07. > :11:09.consideration. Paul e-mails to say he agrees public sector employees

:11:10. > :11:12.should get a pay increase. It is not only the public sector affected. I

:11:13. > :11:17.have not had any pay rise and eight years now and have not had -- and

:11:18. > :11:20.not the only one I know. Sick of hearing about the power public

:11:21. > :11:23.sector workers when they have done better than me. As I say, this is

:11:24. > :11:28.under increasing pressure to end that pay freeze. It was announced

:11:29. > :11:31.back in 2010 and means teachers, nurses, firefighters, police and

:11:32. > :11:36.other people working in the public sector have had their pay cap that

:11:37. > :11:41.1%, even though inflation, the cost of living, has risen more than that.

:11:42. > :11:45.Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has become the latest senior Cabinet

:11:46. > :11:46.minister to put pressure on the Chancellor and the Prime Minister to

:11:47. > :11:49.end it. The Conservatives went

:11:50. > :11:51.into the election pledging to maintain the cap until 2020,

:11:52. > :11:53.but there are growing calls for a rethink

:11:54. > :11:56.after the party lost its majority It comes as figures from the Nursing

:11:57. > :12:00.and Midwifery Council show more nurses and midwives are leaving

:12:01. > :12:10.the profession in the UK A basic salary for a new nurse in

:12:11. > :12:18.2010 was ?21,176 per year. In 2016 that figure was ?21,692, an increase

:12:19. > :12:34.of just over ?500. Whereas MPs' salaries were ?65,738 in 2010, and

:12:35. > :12:39.?74,962 in 2016. An increase of almost ?9,000. Not all MPs took that

:12:40. > :12:41.extra rise. Some donated it to charities or used it in their office

:12:42. > :12:46.on interns and so on. Lets talk to Josie Irwin

:12:47. > :12:53.from the Royal College of Nursing, Maria Caulfield

:12:54. > :12:55.who is a Conservative MP and a former nurse herself,

:12:56. > :12:58.and Alasdair Smith an economist and former member of

:12:59. > :13:02.four pay review bodies. Welcome, love you. Josie, wire

:13:03. > :13:11.nurses leaving? I think nurses feel they have been taken for granted for

:13:12. > :13:14.too long -- welcome, all of you. Nurses leaving, it is not just

:13:15. > :13:18.nurses towards the end of their career. Workload pressures are

:13:19. > :13:25.enormously intense. Nurses are working extra hours every shift in

:13:26. > :13:27.order just to get the work done. It is an incredibly pressured

:13:28. > :13:35.environment. So it is just too much and that he is not worth it? It is

:13:36. > :13:39.just too much and 50 -- 59% of our members and we know because we have

:13:40. > :13:42.surveyed them, they feel they cannot deliver the quality of care they

:13:43. > :13:46.want to and have been trained to deliver, so they feel really

:13:47. > :13:50.compromised by the impact of the squeeze on their profession. And of

:13:51. > :13:56.course some are leaving because of the economic circumstances as well.

:13:57. > :14:00.In reality it is a complex mix of not enough money, feeling

:14:01. > :14:05.undervalued, and just not being able to do, to provide the care they have

:14:06. > :14:11.been trained to do. And the impact on the NHS of this? Our view is that

:14:12. > :14:15.the NHS is at a tipping point, quite frankly, and it is not... We have

:14:16. > :14:21.heard that before, though. This time it is really true. There are 40,000

:14:22. > :14:27.nursing vacancies in England alone. We know that the number of nurses

:14:28. > :14:31.coming to the UK from the EU are not coming in the numbers that they

:14:32. > :14:35.were, for obvious reasons, because they are uncertain. There are about

:14:36. > :14:39.35,000 nurses who work you trained who are now feeling uncertain about

:14:40. > :14:46.their future, who will go, and that on top of the 40,000 is just not

:14:47. > :14:50.believable really. We don't know that 35,000 will go. We don't know

:14:51. > :14:53.that 35,000 will go but we know a fair proportion of them will go

:14:54. > :15:00.because they feel uncertain about their future. Maria, hello. Michael

:15:01. > :15:03.Gove, the Environment Secretary, seemed yesterday to support calls

:15:04. > :15:09.for the cap to be lifted, and said we don't necessarily have to pay for

:15:10. > :15:13.it by raising taxes, which means diverted money from elsewhere or

:15:14. > :15:17.borrowing, what do you think? There are some difficult decisions to be

:15:18. > :15:22.made. The reason why there has been a pay freeze, and I suffered that

:15:23. > :15:27.working as a nurse during the 2010-2015 period, and it is

:15:28. > :15:30.extremely difficult. As Josie says, most nurses work extra hours, extra

:15:31. > :15:36.shifts, joined their hospital bank... Would you support the free

:15:37. > :15:39.is being lifted? Absolutely. Will reject the money from? There are

:15:40. > :15:42.difficult decisions to be made because of the interest we are

:15:43. > :15:46.paying on deficit and if we suddenly start spending on everything we want

:15:47. > :15:50.to, we will have to pay more in terms of interest payments as a

:15:51. > :15:53.country, but it is about priorities. For me public sector workers have

:15:54. > :15:59.been carrying their services, whether it is teachers, doctors,

:16:00. > :16:02.police, for too long. OK, so would you raise taxes? Michael Gove says

:16:03. > :16:08.not necessarily have to do that. Would you divert money from

:16:09. > :16:12.elsewhere, replacing Trident, HS2, or would you borrow? I think it is

:16:13. > :16:16.about priorities, and there is money in the system. But we are? For me I

:16:17. > :16:23.think we need to look at the international aid budget. I am very

:16:24. > :16:26.supportive of it. It was ?30 billion last year. What do you think it

:16:27. > :16:31.should be in order to fund the lifting of the cap? It will cost

:16:32. > :16:34.about ?6 billion and it will not all, from one budget, if we lift the

:16:35. > :16:38.cup. For me I don't particularly want to be raising taxes because it

:16:39. > :16:41.will be ordinary nurses, teachers, police officers paying bills. We

:16:42. > :16:43.have done a huge amount lifting people out of tax. I think it would

:16:44. > :16:51.be a retrograde step. So you say take some money from the

:16:52. > :16:55.foreign aid budget. That is taking money from some of the poorest in

:16:56. > :16:58.the world. You are a representative of the Royal College of Nursing,

:16:59. > :17:02.would you be comfortable with that? I think Maria's explained it very

:17:03. > :17:06.well. There are political choices to be made. Making a political choice

:17:07. > :17:09.is always difficult. We would say that in order to deliver the health

:17:10. > :17:13.care that patients in this country deserve, the money needs to be found

:17:14. > :17:19.from somewhere, but that is not our decision. But would you sleep at

:17:20. > :17:23.night if money was taken from some of the poorest people in the world

:17:24. > :17:26.to pay for your members? There are some tough political decisions to be

:17:27. > :17:30.made... All right. Alastair, hello. In terms of your experience of pay

:17:31. > :17:35.review bodies, what do they look at before recommending? They look at

:17:36. > :17:39.the kind of evidence that you've just been discussing whether in the

:17:40. > :17:44.workforce they're looking at whether there's a problem of holding on to

:17:45. > :17:49.the staff that they already have, when there are recruitment problems.

:17:50. > :17:55.They get evidence from the Treasury of how much public money is

:17:56. > :18:03.available to pay. To spend on pay. They weigh up that evidence and come

:18:04. > :18:11.independently to a view on how much of a pay increase you will be given.

:18:12. > :18:15.Josie said there is 40,000 vacancies in terms of nurses. So in order to

:18:16. > :18:19.try and correct that, and it's a slow process, you can't just employ

:18:20. > :18:24.40,000 people for tomorrow, how much would pay have to go up in order to

:18:25. > :18:29.attract new people into nursing, or does it not work Reich that? No,

:18:30. > :18:32.no... It does work like that but you are not going to get a straight

:18:33. > :18:36.answer from me, not because I want to avoid it, but because that's the

:18:37. > :18:40.job of the pay review bold write to look at that evidence and making

:18:41. > :18:44.that judgment about what level of pay is needed to address a

:18:45. > :18:50.recruitment problem if indeed there is one. OK. Thank you very much.

:18:51. > :19:05.I've got a couple more comments. Bear with me. OK. A lot of people

:19:06. > :19:09.Maria are asking, how come MPs aren't public sector workers and

:19:10. > :19:12.haven't been subject to the pay cap? I'm not sure why that is, I would be

:19:13. > :19:17.very supportive if they were, I didn't take the pay rise when I

:19:18. > :19:19.first got elected, I gave it to local charities because I felt

:19:20. > :19:23.having just come from the NHS with a pay freeze for the five years that

:19:24. > :19:26.was there, I didn't feel it was right that I should take it when

:19:27. > :19:31.former colleagues didn't get one. I'm not sure why that is, because I

:19:32. > :19:35.think I personally feel that MPs should be reflecting every other

:19:36. > :19:41.public sector worker and if they are not getting a pay rise I would be

:19:42. > :19:47.very happy. That is a personal view rather than a party political one.

:19:48. > :19:50.God forbid. This texter says we can't provide basic care for people

:19:51. > :19:55.who need it in hospitals and we are told nurses cannot be paid a live

:19:56. > :19:58.wage yet. Taxpayers more to fund the Royals and their lifestyle, can we

:19:59. > :20:03.still afford them. Mike says, it's time to look after our own, foreign

:20:04. > :20:06.aid needs to be slashed until we have our own problems sorted. Public

:20:07. > :20:11.sector workers are the people the country turn to in times of disaster

:20:12. > :20:14.and danger, NHS staff Fire Service prison officers, police all

:20:15. > :20:17.protecting care for the public, it's time to pay them back for their

:20:18. > :20:20.commitment and bravery. Thank you very much.

:20:21. > :20:23.This programme has learnt that girls as young as nine are seeking

:20:24. > :20:26.surgery on their vagina because they are distressed

:20:27. > :20:32.Doctors say they're seeing more and more young teenagers

:20:33. > :20:35.who are very distressed with how this part of their body looks

:20:36. > :20:38.even though their body is healthy and they have no medical

:20:39. > :20:41.Labiaplasty is an operation which is not recommended for those

:20:42. > :20:44.under the age of 18 because the body has not finished developing.

:20:45. > :20:48.Some medical experts are comparing the unnecessary operation on young

:20:49. > :20:54.Our reporter Jean Mackenzie bought you our exclusive report earlier

:20:55. > :20:59.in the programme; here's a short extract.

:21:00. > :21:03.In our visual, virtual world, there is an

:21:04. > :21:08.increasing pressure on teenagers to look the part.

:21:09. > :21:15.I've come to meet one of the country's leading adolescent

:21:16. > :21:19.gynaecologists, who's concerned about the number

:21:20. > :21:22.of young girls wanting cosmetic surgery on the genitals.

:21:23. > :21:24.Girls will sometimes come out with comments like,

:21:25. > :21:27.I just want it removed, I want it treated.

:21:28. > :21:32.15, 16, but I have seen girls who are younger.

:21:33. > :21:36.The youngest girl I have seen as a girl of nine.

:21:37. > :21:40.The surgery is called labiaplasty, it is where the

:21:41. > :21:43.lips of the vagina are shortened and reshaped.

:21:44. > :21:45.It can be done for cosmetic reasons or if they are

:21:46. > :21:51.Paquita has been a GP for 30 years and has only recently

:21:52. > :21:55.started seeing patients with these concerns.

:21:56. > :21:59.I remember the girl pointing at her genitalia, and

:22:00. > :22:02.her nose sort of wrinkling in disgust.

:22:03. > :22:07.There seems to be this very narrow spectrum of what is acceptable.

:22:08. > :22:10.That the inner lips, if you like, should

:22:11. > :22:16.A bit like a Barbie doll, you don't see anything.

:22:17. > :22:19.The NHS says it won't carry out this surgery

:22:20. > :22:23.for cosmetic reasons and

:22:24. > :22:28.that it shouldn't be performed on girls under 18.

:22:29. > :22:31.But last year more than 150 girls and the age of 15 had

:22:32. > :22:35.I find it very hard to believe that there

:22:36. > :22:39.were 156 girls under the age of 15 who had a medical abnormality

:22:40. > :22:42.with the labia that meant they needed to have surgery.

:22:43. > :22:48.And as a paediatric and adolescent gynaecologist I have

:22:49. > :22:51.never seen a girl under the age of 15 who has needed to have an

:22:52. > :22:57.There is a lot of pressure, especially on

:22:58. > :22:59.social media, it's all pictures of working out

:23:00. > :23:05.And you look at yourself and think, oh, I don't look like that at all!

:23:06. > :23:08.Do you ever worry about the appearance of that part of your

:23:09. > :23:14.There was one thing on Snapchat a few weeks ago.

:23:15. > :23:21.It was like there are four different types of vaginas and it was likes,

:23:22. > :23:25.what if we don't fit into that. People don't know what they look

:23:26. > :23:29.like, they are not being taught so they go online and see artificial

:23:30. > :23:34.pictures and then they think, oh, my God, maybe I'm not quite normal.

:23:35. > :23:37.Teaching young girls what they bodies look like is crucial. But

:23:38. > :23:41.Naomi says some of the responsibility must lie with the

:23:42. > :23:44.professionals. I don't think it should be performed, certainly on

:23:45. > :23:48.the girls under 18. Over 18 it should be seen for what it is, which

:23:49. > :24:02.is a cosmetic procedure which people may choose to buy.

:24:03. > :24:05.NHS England says it carries out this type of surgery for complex

:24:06. > :24:07.clinical conditions, but not for cosmetic reasons.

:24:08. > :24:10.It adds that Clinical Commissioning Groups would have their own policies

:24:11. > :24:12.about surgery for cosmetic reasons that may include this procedure.

:24:13. > :24:15.Here now to discuss this is Dr Gail Busby, the Lead Pediatric

:24:16. > :24:17.and Adolescent Gynaecologist, at Royal Manchester

:24:18. > :24:21.Dr Janice Rymer is Vice President of the Royal College

:24:22. > :24:25.of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and Professor Heather Willows

:24:26. > :24:30.is a professor of medical ethics and is researching a book looking

:24:31. > :24:35.at how young people's perceptions of themselves are changing.

:24:36. > :24:44.A Professor where? Birmingham. Welcome all of you. This figure of

:24:45. > :24:49.200 labia plasty on girls under 18 performed by the NHS in 2015-16 and

:24:50. > :24:52.yet the NHS says we don't do this for cosmetic reasons. Does that make

:24:53. > :25:00.sense to you, the two statements? No. I have to say that I have left

:25:01. > :25:03.the service. I started the service in Manchester for paediatrics and

:25:04. > :25:09.gynaecology in 2009 so I've seen many girls come to me aged as young

:25:10. > :25:15.as ten through to 18 and of those girls, only one girl has ever had a

:25:16. > :25:20.medical condition which has manifested in large labia. So are

:25:21. > :25:26.you saying it does not sound plausible... It's highly unlikely

:25:27. > :25:34.these girls all have medical conditions which have manifested in

:25:35. > :25:41.large labia. How do you respond to the film? Girls are coming along for

:25:42. > :25:43.this perceived perception that they are abnormal when they are in fact

:25:44. > :26:01.normal. Particularly in adolescents. Is this

:26:02. > :26:08.female genital mutilation? I think you've got to be very careful in

:26:09. > :26:14.confusing it with FGM because if FGM is done without consent and

:26:15. > :26:22.labiaplasty is done with consent, that can be interpreted as FGM. It's

:26:23. > :26:29.important to remember, FGM is without consent, labiaplasty is with

:26:30. > :26:32.consent. I think we are all completely against labiaplasty,

:26:33. > :26:36.particularly in girls under 18. The statistics and the documentary we

:26:37. > :26:40.saw are shocking and concerning. Professor Widows, in terms of your

:26:41. > :26:45.research about young people's perceptions of themselves, what is

:26:46. > :26:50.going on in Britain in 2017 if girls, presumably with a mum or dad,

:26:51. > :26:54.are being taken to gynaecologists to say, something needs to be done

:26:55. > :26:58.because I don't like the way my labia looks? You heard about nit the

:26:59. > :27:02.film, girls feel they have to be normal and their idea of normal is

:27:03. > :27:08.distorted. Where are they getting that idea from? It's the idea of a

:27:09. > :27:15.perfect body, so over half girls aged 14-18 feel they have to be

:27:16. > :27:18.perfect. By perfect you mean a thin, firm body, going from breasts and

:27:19. > :27:30.also think that about their labia too. Increasingly they live online

:27:31. > :27:36.in a visual and virtual culture. They identify with the looking self.

:27:37. > :27:42.Despite that, you see girls with a mum or dad? I do. What kind of

:27:43. > :27:44.conversation do you have, non-judgmental, I assume, but you

:27:45. > :27:48.have to say, what the heck are you doing here? Well, it's a long

:27:49. > :27:53.consultation and I think education is the basis of the consultation.

:27:54. > :27:58.The bottom line is that an adolescent body is different from an

:27:59. > :28:12.adult body and that goes in line with breasts, have you videos or

:28:13. > :28:17.vaginas. -- vulvas and vaginas. The labia minora grow and it's different

:28:18. > :28:22.in childhood as it is to adulthood. This is normal for 14, 15, that is

:28:23. > :28:27.the message I get through. The outer lips then develop and in adulthood

:28:28. > :28:31.they have a more balanced appearance and the minora don't look as

:28:32. > :28:38.prominent, that is the small lips. It's about education, that actually

:28:39. > :28:41.you are normal. Woe don't want to turn a normal structure into

:28:42. > :28:48.abnormal by operating on it too early because then it goes on to

:28:49. > :28:56.grow and develop and then you can get puckering, pain, the long-term

:28:57. > :29:02.outcomes. I tell them, I don't want you to be unhappy in adulthood. Do

:29:03. > :29:07.you think this procedure should be banned on under 18s full stop?

:29:08. > :29:15.Absolutely. Do you? It's quite clear, yes, except for the odd one

:29:16. > :29:17.that Dr Busby was saying for perhaps significant congenital

:29:18. > :29:23.abnormalities, that's different but it's very, very rare so we should be

:29:24. > :29:27.saying labiaplasty should be banned on under-18s. Do you agree? Yes. We

:29:28. > :29:33.should think more carefully about all of the beauty practices. One of

:29:34. > :29:37.the reasons we worry about labiaplasty is the other things like

:29:38. > :29:42.pubic hair removal which is standard and changes how vaginas look, wee

:29:43. > :29:47.need to think about nit the whole, as well as the separate procedure.

:29:48. > :29:52.What is happening in labiaplasty is extreme as a broader tend trend and

:29:53. > :29:58.we need to think about the trend. Fiona says, I hope my daughters will

:29:59. > :30:02.be confident in how they look. Already one is tall and slender, the

:30:03. > :30:07.other heavier. I dread them wanting to change anything. They are

:30:08. > :30:13.healthy. It's ourself job to make parents strong, stable well adjusted

:30:14. > :30:16.adults. Parents and children need to cooperate honestly. As a parent, you

:30:17. > :30:22.shouldn't step away from responsibility. Chunky money Kai on

:30:23. > :30:27.Twitter, the blame is to do with pornography and son-in-law media.

:30:28. > :30:32.What society are we living in within a nine-year-old girl worries about

:30:33. > :30:37.how her vagina looks and wants it changing -- social media. It's very,

:30:38. > :30:40.very worrying. This raising of awareness will hopefully help in

:30:41. > :30:44.terms of parents' confidence in talking to their children, would you

:30:45. > :30:50.hope? Yes, I do. The other thing that is important is, the labia are

:30:51. > :30:55.sensitive, there is a nerve supply. If you reduce it, you may have a

:30:56. > :30:57.significant effect on the girl's future, sexual function and

:30:58. > :31:01.satisfaction, we need to get that message across too. Labia are

:31:02. > :31:07.important for good sexual function. I'm not sure how that would go down

:31:08. > :31:11.with a 13-year-old girl. That's the thing, they can't conceptualise it,

:31:12. > :31:15.so you are telling them something that is abstract to them. When you

:31:16. > :31:20.say to a girl and her mum, I mean is it always mum who is come with the

:31:21. > :31:26.girls or the dads sometimes? Mums, yes. When you say it's absolutely

:31:27. > :31:30.normal, how do they react generally? I think by the end of the

:31:31. > :31:34.consultation, there are often tears, but by the end of it, they

:31:35. > :31:40.understand. They understand the reason why I've said what I've said

:31:41. > :31:44.and I do give the example that the doctor did in the film where if

:31:45. > :31:48.someone of your age went to a breast surgeon to require breast surgery,

:31:49. > :31:51.you wouldn't have surgery because everyone could understand that that

:31:52. > :31:57.is not a sensible thing to do because the breasts need to carry on

:31:58. > :32:00.growing. The same for the labia. When you link it on to something

:32:01. > :32:03.they understand that is more obvious, they understand it.

:32:04. > :32:12.Interestingly of all the girls I've seen, so I always say, you know,

:32:13. > :32:15.reassess things at 18 and if you are still unhappy, get another opinion.

:32:16. > :32:18.Of all the girls, only one's ever come back. That again reflects

:32:19. > :32:23.what's happened in the film, the development is complete and they

:32:24. > :32:27.realise, hang on, I am normal. Hannah on Twitter says I had this op

:32:28. > :32:31.as a teen, I would have mutilated myself if I hadn't had it. So more

:32:32. > :32:35.needs to be done to promote what is healthy and what is normal. This

:32:36. > :32:40.texter says, as a dad of three girls I found your piece on intimate

:32:41. > :32:45.surgery for young girls disturbing. What is also disturbing and may be

:32:46. > :32:50.contributing is the way female perfection for men has changed over

:32:51. > :32:54.the years. Natalie says, how can you compare FGM with cosmetic surgery

:32:55. > :32:58.which is by choice and not performed on children, I'm sure the number of

:32:59. > :33:02.girls requiring this is minute in terms of the population. It is but

:33:03. > :33:07.the whole point is the NHS says they are carried out for medical reasons

:33:08. > :33:10.and the experts here believe medical reasons are so rare that it can't

:33:11. > :33:17.amount to 200 operations in one year.

:33:18. > :33:25.John says I've been getting concern over all forms of media on the

:33:26. > :33:28.subject. After hearing about girls having operations on their private

:33:29. > :33:32.parts for looks, it is outrageous. These girls have no idea how easy it

:33:33. > :33:40.is for images to be fake, and they believe what they C. Thank you all

:33:41. > :33:41.for coming on the programme. -- believe what they see.

:33:42. > :33:44.Speaking out about Rotherham - we talk to one of the victims

:33:45. > :33:47.of the abuse ring who has never spoken publicly

:33:48. > :33:51.She says she's been failed countless times by the police.

:33:52. > :33:54.And as Andy Murray takes to Centre Court at Wimbledon, we will be

:33:55. > :34:04.hearing from former British Tennis stars Jo Durie and David Lloyd.

:34:05. > :34:10.With the News here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:34:11. > :34:14.The Foreign Secretary's added his voice to the growing calls

:34:15. > :34:16.from within the Cabinet for Theresa May to lift

:34:17. > :34:18.the 1% cap on pay rises for public sector workers.

:34:19. > :34:21.The limit is due to be in place until 2020.

:34:22. > :34:23.But a government source said Boris Johnson "strongly" believed

:34:24. > :34:25.pay rises could be achieved without putting undue pressure

:34:26. > :34:29.Figures out today show that for the first time in nearly

:34:30. > :34:31.a decade, more nurses and midwives are leaving

:34:32. > :34:34.the profession in the UK, than joining it.

:34:35. > :34:37.In the year to March 2017, 20% more staff left

:34:38. > :34:39.the register run by the Nursing and Midwifery Council

:34:40. > :34:41.than signed up to it - with British nurses quitting

:34:42. > :34:45.The Department of Health says there's a national programme

:34:46. > :34:56.The energy regulator, Ofgem, has announced plans to limit gas

:34:57. > :34:59.and electricity bills for more people on low incomes.

:35:00. > :35:01.The regulator says it will be consulting on how best to protect

:35:02. > :35:04.the most vulnerable customers from high prices, and around

:35:05. > :35:06.2 million people could face lower bills as a result.

:35:07. > :35:17.They've also announced plans to make switching energy suppliers easier.

:35:18. > :35:20.The Unite union says Bank of England workers are to stage a four-day

:35:21. > :35:23.strike from the 31st of July in a dispute over pay.

:35:24. > :35:26.The Union said staff were angry they have been given a below

:35:27. > :35:29.inflation pay offer for the second year running with up to a third

:35:30. > :35:38.of workers will receive no pay rise at all this year.

:35:39. > :35:46.Up to 18 people are unaccounted for and feared dead after a tour bus

:35:47. > :35:50.collided with a lorry on a moderate close to a town in Bavaria in

:35:51. > :35:51.southern Germany. It was carrying elderly passengers and two drivers

:35:52. > :35:56.when it crashed in a traffic jam. That's a summary of the latest

:35:57. > :35:59.news - join me for BBC These are our headlines

:36:00. > :36:06.this morning: The gates have opened

:36:07. > :36:08.at the All England Club, it's the start of Wimbledon

:36:09. > :36:11.fortnight, so those who have queued for days outside

:36:12. > :36:13.will get their reward with a seat They are entering in a very orderly

:36:14. > :36:25.fashion. The defending champion

:36:26. > :36:27.Andy Murray has arrived these are the latest pictures,

:36:28. > :36:38.he is practicing ahead of his first These are the very latest pictures

:36:39. > :36:42.from this morning. He is practising this morning. All eyes on that left

:36:43. > :36:46.hip, which he has been struggling with for the last couple of weeks.

:36:47. > :36:50.The world number one, has had to pull out of a couple of exhibition

:36:51. > :36:53.events, facing the world number 134, Alexander Bublik. Johanna Konta also

:36:54. > :37:00.place today on Court 1. It's Stage Three of

:37:01. > :37:02.the Tour de France today. Welshman Geraint Thomas

:37:03. > :37:04.is still in the leaders yellow jersey despite getting caught up

:37:05. > :37:07.in this crash yesterday. Tour Champion Chris Froome also went

:37:08. > :37:09.down but he is sixth overall as the tour heads into

:37:10. > :37:15.France from Belgium. The Open starts in just over two

:37:16. > :37:18.weeks and Tommy Fleetwood is hitting The Englishman who came fourth

:37:19. > :37:28.at the US Open last month, This year's Open is at

:37:29. > :37:38.Royal Birkdale which is in his Some breaking cricket news in the

:37:39. > :37:42.last couple of minutes. The South African captain Faf du Plessis will

:37:43. > :37:47.miss the first Test against England at Lord's which starts on Thursday,

:37:48. > :37:51.because of family reasons, Victoria. That is all your sport and I will be

:37:52. > :37:54.back with a lot more after 11 o'clock BBC News. Thank you very

:37:55. > :38:02.much, Olly. It is 10:37am. After years of being suppressed

:38:03. > :38:04.by local authorities, the grooming, abuse and trafficking of young -

:38:05. > :38:06.mostly white - girls in the town of Rochdale came

:38:07. > :38:09.to the public attention in 2012. Gangs of men, predominantly

:38:10. > :38:11.of Pakistani origin, preyed on vulnerable girls

:38:12. > :38:13.by initially offering them drink, drugs and gifts, before raping

:38:14. > :38:15.and prostituting them. A culture of victim blaming and -

:38:16. > :38:18.some have said - an eagerness not to appear racist meant police

:38:19. > :38:21.and social services were often unwilling to take the rumours of

:38:22. > :38:25.widespread exploitation seriously. Greater Manchester Police later

:38:26. > :38:28.apologised and admitted there had been a "complete lack

:38:29. > :38:29.of understanding" of child exploitation in Rochdale

:38:30. > :38:31.and a failure to recognise A documentary called Betrayed Girls,

:38:32. > :38:35.which will be broadcast tonight on BBC One, claims police were told

:38:36. > :38:37.that sexual grooming was going on in Manchester

:38:38. > :38:46.as far back as 2003. This was systematic

:38:47. > :38:49.organised sexual abuse. They weren't just picking one

:38:50. > :38:51.child out of the ether. These were groups of children that

:38:52. > :38:53.were being targeted, and it was like a production line,

:38:54. > :38:56.you know, one and then another. So what was happening

:38:57. > :38:59.to all these children now? Who was dealing with

:39:00. > :39:00.this kind of crime? I was told at four o'clock

:39:01. > :39:15.on a Friday afternoon that the police were no longer

:39:16. > :39:20."going to use" this girl. And with me now is Maggie Oliver,

:39:21. > :39:32.who you saw in that clip - she is a former GMP detective

:39:33. > :39:35.constable who was key in exposing Also with us, "Laura,"

:39:36. > :39:41.who was a victim of the Rochdale ring from the age

:39:42. > :39:43.of 13 until she was 17. She has never spoken publicly

:39:44. > :39:46.about her story before. As she is a victim of abuse,

:39:47. > :39:51.we are protecting her identity. And Jonathan Bridge,

:39:52. > :39:53.a lawyer acting on behalf of around a dozen victims of the abuse

:39:54. > :40:04.in Rochdale, including "Laura." As you would expect with this

:40:05. > :40:09.subject matter, some of what we will discuss will be frank and also

:40:10. > :40:13.graphic. Thank you, all of you, for coming on the programme.

:40:14. > :40:16.Laura, you were barely 13 when you became a victim

:40:17. > :40:22.Can you explain to us how it started?

:40:23. > :40:30.Basically, I come from a large family, without a mother, just a

:40:31. > :40:34.father. So it was basically, like, I got easily led into things, when

:40:35. > :40:39.people were buying things and taking me out, showing me love basically.

:40:40. > :40:43.As and when they were treating me nice, I never got that at home, so

:40:44. > :40:52.for Christmas, I would get the ball and so on, but these people would be

:40:53. > :40:56.buying expensive necklaces, phones, money, so it just got into that, and

:40:57. > :40:59.I thought they were right friends, which now obviously I know that they

:41:00. > :41:06.were not. It not only went from having money and phones, it was then

:41:07. > :41:09.having to have sex with not one, not two, but more of their friends, and

:41:10. > :41:15.then it became like a vicious circle of the grooming. On one occasion,

:41:16. > :41:23.when you were 14, you were driven out to the moors on your own by a

:41:24. > :41:27.group of these men. What happened? I got picked up then by what I thought

:41:28. > :41:31.were my friends, and when we drove up onto the top of the hills, it was

:41:32. > :41:36.about have passed one in the morning, you know, pitch black. --

:41:37. > :41:41.have passed one in the morning. They were making me do sexual... To have

:41:42. > :41:48.sex with these other men, and as I refused, I said no, they then were

:41:49. > :41:51.arguing and fighting and I was having to fight them off like me,

:41:52. > :41:56.then they took my coat and my shoes off me and just threw me out the

:41:57. > :42:01.car, and I was left then on my own and a passer-by walked past and

:42:02. > :42:07.picked me up and took me to the police station. What do the police

:42:08. > :42:10.do? When I called the police, I got interviewed, but nothing ever

:42:11. > :42:16.happened. They just said there wasn't enough evidence gathered of

:42:17. > :42:24.what happened, and because I couldn't explain, like, I told them

:42:25. > :42:28.the car, but because there were no cameras, because it was up in the

:42:29. > :42:33.hills, the case got dropped and nothing happened. What did you think

:42:34. > :42:39.of that? I was hurt, crying, scared. I was only young, I was on my own. I

:42:40. > :42:44.didn't have... Nobody was with me. I just felt like they let me down. Why

:42:45. > :42:48.didn't they help me? Why didn't they put me in a police car, go looking

:42:49. > :42:52.for them? A few pictures that they probably had of people, saying these

:42:53. > :42:56.things have happened before, why did they not try to point them out,

:42:57. > :42:59.saying here are a few pictures, is it any of these men? Nothing ever

:43:00. > :43:03.happened. I was just disheartened that they let me down. On another

:43:04. > :43:07.occasion you were taken to a flat where there was a group of men and

:43:08. > :43:11.again they tried to make you have sex with them. You refused. They

:43:12. > :43:18.then took a metal spoon, as I understand it, and held it over a

:43:19. > :43:21.gas flame, and then put it on your skin until your skin effectively

:43:22. > :43:27.barred off. You manage to call the police for help. What happened on

:43:28. > :43:30.that occasion -- your skin effectively burnt off. I had a

:43:31. > :43:34.really large burn mark on my arm, but because I was drinking, they had

:43:35. > :43:39.plied me with some alcohol, the police turned up and when the

:43:40. > :43:43.deliberately turned and saw me drunk, and I was arguing with other

:43:44. > :43:50.people, screaming, crying, saying they had just burned me, looking

:43:51. > :43:55.like the mad one, and the Pakistani men said, you did it to yourself,

:43:56. > :43:58.and I was saying, no, I didn't, but I actually got arrested for being

:43:59. > :44:03.drunk and disorderly and nothing happens to them. That is

:44:04. > :44:09.astonishing, unbelievable. It amazes me. Looking back, I think, how did

:44:10. > :44:12.that happen? That was everyday life. It happened on so many occasions

:44:13. > :44:19.where I rang the police, give a statement, it got dropped. I will

:44:20. > :44:23.bring in Maggie Oliver over year, former detective constable. Thank

:44:24. > :44:27.you for coming in and speaking to us. You released a scribbled note

:44:28. > :44:30.written in 2003 and passed by social services to Greater Manchester

:44:31. > :44:35.Police, which was ignored, and I know that you are comfortable in

:44:36. > :44:43.reading our audience some of this. This was written by a girl called

:44:44. > :44:48.Victoria. Godley, yes. Yes, send ten in 2003, as I said. She was 13.

:44:49. > :44:55.Would you mind reading a bit? I would just like to see this as with

:44:56. > :44:58.the consent and knowledge. Victoria Road, things I have done in the

:44:59. > :45:08.past. Things I have done in the past. I drank, smoked weed, took

:45:09. > :45:12.pills, had blow and coke, heroin, but for what? You do them for a

:45:13. > :45:17.laugh but it can kill you. I'm only 13. I have the rest of my life ahead

:45:18. > :45:21.of me. I've slept with people older than me, half of them I don't even

:45:22. > :45:30.know their names. I must like, and that is nothing to be proud of. -- I

:45:31. > :45:34.am a slack. I did it to impress the boys. Even when I was out I was

:45:35. > :45:38.pulled up with some boy and because they were out of their faces so

:45:39. > :45:44.much, they crashed the car. The police were all over Moss side,

:45:45. > :45:50.alongside, but we never got caught, and all the things lost, just the

:45:51. > :45:55.drugs and boys. My family is supposed to mean a lot to people,

:45:56. > :46:01.but at the time it didn't for me, so I lost all of that. I just hope I

:46:02. > :46:08.knew... I just hope I knew that at the time, but I didn't. Next time,

:46:09. > :46:16.you should think of family before drink, drugs, sex and money. Age 13.

:46:17. > :46:20.And what happened to Victoria? She was given a drugs overdose. She

:46:21. > :46:26.would have been groomed in Rochdale, and abused by the gangs of men. In a

:46:27. > :46:29.similar way to Laura. How should the police have responded? Social

:46:30. > :46:34.services past that the police. How should they have responded to that

:46:35. > :46:41.note? I don't know what happened in relation to that investigation, that

:46:42. > :46:43.letter came to me as part of Operation Augusta, and Greater

:46:44. > :46:47.Manchester Police asked us to look at whether we had a problem with

:46:48. > :46:50.grooming back in 2003 and 2004. I was part of that team and I wrote a

:46:51. > :47:00.report. I knew that we had a problem. The most senior officers in

:47:01. > :47:03.GMP knew we had a problem and yet they allowed that operation to die,

:47:04. > :47:08.to be buried, and it was never open again until the end of 2010 when

:47:09. > :47:17.there was a couple of reasons, but one of which was the Fathauer foetus

:47:18. > :47:22.in the GMP property system and the reopened the case -- one of which

:47:23. > :47:26.was the fact that they found a foetus. The reopened it and wanted a

:47:27. > :47:31.quick hit. I know they say things have changed but you're listening to

:47:32. > :47:34.Laura today. I believe there is an arrogance amongst senior police

:47:35. > :47:39.officers that they believe they can treat children from difficult

:47:40. > :47:41.backgrounds in this way. Still? Guest, still, because I talked to

:47:42. > :47:47.children in Rochdale and if you speak to Laura about what happened

:47:48. > :47:52.-- yes, still. Laura was a witness for a child in another trial. This

:47:53. > :47:55.breaks my heart, because I was a police officer, you know. This is

:47:56. > :48:01.not how it should happen. She bit weeks and months of her life on the

:48:02. > :48:06.line to assist us, and was promised that they would go back and

:48:07. > :48:10.interview her about what happened to her. That never happened. Her house

:48:11. > :48:17.was vandalised because she was a witness at court. There was

:48:18. > :48:21.graffiti. Seven years putting that little house together, every fibre

:48:22. > :48:24.of her being, to make a home for her children. I mean, maybe she should

:48:25. > :48:29.tell you what happened, rather than me.

:48:30. > :48:36.After everything happened from the court, my house got targeted. I've

:48:37. > :48:40.got two kids... Because you were a witness? Yes and I was there when it

:48:41. > :48:45.happened and went to all the trials and stuff. Then they just told me to

:48:46. > :48:50.get a bag of mine and my daughter's stuff and to just run out the back

:48:51. > :48:54.door and get away. It got that bad, I had to then go to Manchester

:48:55. > :48:59.Council and ask them can they rehouse me and they stuck me in the

:49:00. > :49:03.middle of Rusholme, the Curry Mile in Manchester in a small hotel, it

:49:04. > :49:13.was as who tell, not even a hotel, but a bed and a sink, no toilet. If

:49:14. > :49:17.anyone knows Rusholme, the Curry Mile, it's full of Pakistani men,

:49:18. > :49:22.it's like a big community, that's where they all go. In the end, it

:49:23. > :49:27.ended up becoming homeless with my children and now I've been rehoused

:49:28. > :49:32.recently, so, you know, it got to the point where I was a witness and

:49:33. > :49:35.when I kept going back, trying to ring the police officer, that was

:49:36. > :49:40.dealing with me, she basically didn't want to know. She said,

:49:41. > :49:44.you're going to have to ring 999 if they turn up, I can't do anything

:49:45. > :49:48.any more. I thought, you were going to protect me, you said if anything

:49:49. > :49:50.came to it... Why are you not helping me, I'm sat crying on the

:49:51. > :49:54.phone with my kids saying what is going to happen to me and my kids

:49:55. > :49:59.and she didn't want to know because she got the evidence off me, she got

:50:00. > :50:05.me in court to stand there, she was in the trial, she was in the

:50:06. > :50:13.newspaper, with happy smiles and the real victims Still suffering? Yes

:50:14. > :50:16.and the people living a hell homeless with their children. We

:50:17. > :50:19.have a statement from Greater Manchester Police, it's vital we

:50:20. > :50:23.learn lessons to the past and to that end we are absolutely committed

:50:24. > :50:27.to working with our partners across Greater Manchester to tackle the

:50:28. > :50:31.sexual exploitation of children and young people. I want to bring in

:50:32. > :50:38.Jonathan Bridge, a lawyer acting on behalf of around a dozen victims,

:50:39. > :50:42.including Laura. You are helping Laura and others make civil claims

:50:43. > :50:46.for compensation for the authorities' failings effectively to

:50:47. > :50:50.try to protect them, stop what was happening to them happening over and

:50:51. > :50:54.over again. How do the amounts that some of the girls will receive

:50:55. > :50:59.compare to other compensation claims for example? The damages are very,

:51:00. > :51:04.very low. There's been a recent case involving the Catholic society, a

:51:05. > :51:11.boy raped at 14 by a teach ever brought a claim in his 30s, awarded

:51:12. > :51:18.?14,000 for that rape. -- by a teacher. There was a case involving

:51:19. > :51:23.three MPs who brought a libel claim against another MP who'd alleged

:51:24. > :51:28.they knew about the Rotherham abuse scandal. I think it was a Ukip MEP

:51:29. > :51:33.sued by the three MPs and they recovered a combined total of

:51:34. > :51:36.?160,000, so that was about ?52,000 each they got for being accused of

:51:37. > :51:41.knowing about a scandal and doing nothing to prevent it. So you

:51:42. > :51:44.compare that with ?14,000 for historic rape and it possibly puts

:51:45. > :51:50.into context that the damages are far too low. -36

:51:51. > :51:55.Laura's detailed occasions - where the police could have help and gone,

:51:56. > :52:01.hang on, this isn't right. I was actually sent to prison because of

:52:02. > :52:07.them. I was 15 and every time I got arrested because of what the men

:52:08. > :52:12.did, and because I was always found again drunk and on drugs, they just

:52:13. > :52:17.seen me as a child that had problems and I ended up going to prison for

:52:18. > :52:22.what they was doing so I was still being finished every time for what I

:52:23. > :52:26.was basically being punished for being raped, getting filled up with

:52:27. > :52:30.vodka and drugs and it's like, what's happened with them now

:52:31. > :52:36.they've got a clean record when now I try to get a college course to do

:52:37. > :52:42.social work and they wouldn't even let me on the course because they

:52:43. > :52:47.said that I would have to work with children and vulnerable people all

:52:48. > :52:52.because of my criminal record, I got done for racial abuse, with that I

:52:53. > :52:56.got called a white slag I responded back, you know, a racist comment and

:52:57. > :53:01.I then again got arrested because it was in the seeing and hearing of the

:53:02. > :53:04.public. But what about him? As I understand it, Jonathan, Laura

:53:05. > :53:08.doesn't have the option to pursue a civil action against the police, is

:53:09. > :53:11.that right? This is a real problem in this country. There are two

:53:12. > :53:15.historic cases, there was initially the Yorkshire Ripper case where the

:53:16. > :53:19.eighth victim's mum tried to claim against West Yorkshire police saying

:53:20. > :53:23.they failed in their investigation. They didn't deny they failed but the

:53:24. > :53:27.court held that no, the police don't owe any duty of care to people in

:53:28. > :53:30.this country so even though they allowed her daughter to die by not

:53:31. > :53:33.investigating properly, they couldn't bring a claim. There's

:53:34. > :53:39.Michael's claim which you will have seen in the news, a girl who rang

:53:40. > :53:43.999 and said my ex-boyfriend is very violent, I'm scared he's going to

:53:44. > :53:47.come and kill me and I think it was a Welsh police force put the call

:53:48. > :53:52.through to the wrong call centre and then deprioritised the call. So

:53:53. > :53:56.within 15 minutes she'd been murdered by her ex-boyfriend and two

:53:57. > :54:02.different police forces apologised for their mistakes there. The claim

:54:03. > :54:05.was a brought, it's a famous case called Michael's but again the court

:54:06. > :54:11.held that the police didn't owe a duty of care. Maggie Oliver, you

:54:12. > :54:15.said you wrote this report, it was shelved, put in the bottom drawer,

:54:16. > :54:19.buried, whatever word you want to use and you said I think the police

:54:20. > :54:22.were looking for a quick hit. I mean that is the question, you know,

:54:23. > :54:26.you've worked with good police officers, you were clearly one

:54:27. > :54:31.yourself? Yes. I've interviewed many, many good police officers,

:54:32. > :54:35.clearly they're a microcosm of society, there are rotten apples who

:54:36. > :54:39.can't be bother orred whatever, but why, why would people bury your

:54:40. > :54:44.report, that's the thing that doesn't make sense? For me, this is

:54:45. > :54:49.not about police on the beat, it's not about detectives, this is about

:54:50. > :54:52.the top of the chain. I don't even mean just the Chief Constables, I

:54:53. > :54:56.believe this has come from the Government and I don't really see it

:54:57. > :55:01.as a racial... When you say it's come from the Government, what do

:55:02. > :55:12.you mean? I don't have evidence but if you look around, this is my

:55:13. > :55:14.opinion, you look around the country, Rotherham, Rochdale,

:55:15. > :55:19.Oldham, Manchester, the same pattern has occurred. That isn't

:55:20. > :55:24.coincidence. Is that more about society than anything else? I think

:55:25. > :55:31.it's an attitude towards people of perhaps... I think there is a class

:55:32. > :55:35.attitude there. A bit like Grenfell Tower. You can put immigrant

:55:36. > :55:39.families and people from different social backgrounds in a tower block

:55:40. > :55:42.that's going to go up in flames but you wouldn't put the MPs in a

:55:43. > :55:47.similar tower block next door because they have a voice, they

:55:48. > :55:53.wouldn't stand by and accept that. They would knock on doors and rattle

:55:54. > :55:57.cages. Girls like Laura are kind of, they haven't got a voice, they're

:55:58. > :56:01.starting to get a voice because the public actually get it. Why do the

:56:02. > :56:05.people in those positions of influence not get it equally? OK. I

:56:06. > :56:10.understand the point you're making. And accountability. I understand the

:56:11. > :56:13.point you're making. Whatever background you're from, they were

:56:14. > :56:19.kids, oh, my goodness, they were children. I've given up my job, I've

:56:20. > :56:22.lost my job. You hear Laura speaking, you know, all these

:56:23. > :56:27.millions of reports they do, of all the kids that I'm dealing with now

:56:28. > :56:32.that I know, not one of them's ever been interviewed in relation to any

:56:33. > :56:38.of these reports, they cherry pick who they'll interview, the reports

:56:39. > :56:42.are very massaged, you know. I could take you to ten children that would

:56:43. > :56:49.give you a very different set of circumstances to write a report on.

:56:50. > :56:54.So it's kind of a closed shop. To get the truth out there. It's taken

:56:55. > :57:01.me five years. I wouldn't really know what different to do today.

:57:02. > :57:05.Laura, do you think that abuse and grooming and sexual exploitation is

:57:06. > :57:09.still happening in Rochdale? I still believe it. Do you see evidence of

:57:10. > :57:15.it? Do you know people, without naming names obviously? A couple of

:57:16. > :57:20.months ago, I was walking from Oldham town centre through an Asian

:57:21. > :57:24.community in the night, to the bottom to somebody's house. I was

:57:25. > :57:29.still getting cars pulling over to me asking me do I want to two for a

:57:30. > :57:33.drink and when I looked, I might have looked a built younger, but

:57:34. > :57:38.when I looked, I was like, what the hell is going on, do they not

:57:39. > :57:42.realise what's been going on, it's just not bothering them, with the

:57:43. > :57:45.drama coming out, with it being all over social media and the news and

:57:46. > :57:48.everywhere and it's just not phasing them. I don't actually think they

:57:49. > :57:54.understand they're doing something wrong.

:57:55. > :57:59.Let me read some comments. Audrey on e-mail says this young girl's being

:58:00. > :58:04.groomed for sex is sickening, it needs stamping out. Well done to

:58:05. > :58:08.your guest, I do hope your life has turned around for you. The woman on

:58:09. > :58:10.Twitter, the stories are heartbreaking, lessons learnt must

:58:11. > :58:14.never be forgotten. Thank you all very much for coming

:58:15. > :58:19.on the programme. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Laura.

:58:20. > :58:26.Thank you Maggie and Jonathan, thank you very much. On the programme

:58:27. > :58:30.tomorrow, an entire view with the father of eight-year-old Saffy

:58:31. > :58:32.Roussos, the youngest member killed in the Manchester bombing attack.