12/07/2017

:00:12. > :00:14.It's four weeks now since the devastating fire which destroyed

:00:15. > :00:22.Grenfell Tower block in Kensington and this programme has discovered

:00:23. > :00:25.that fewer than half the local authority areas with tower blocks

:00:26. > :00:28.wrapped in panels that have failed fire safety tests have started

:00:29. > :00:31.Residents have also told us they're asking for new fire exits

:00:32. > :00:35.But where is the money for that going to come from?

:00:36. > :00:42.After Grenfell Tower did not feel safe. I had lots of questions and

:00:43. > :00:48.mine head. I still do not. There is no clarity as to how safe we are.

:00:49. > :00:51.More on that story to come, and in the next few

:00:52. > :00:52.minutes we'll get reaction from residents and politicians.

:00:53. > :01:00.I want to thank you for coming together and being so strong and

:01:01. > :01:05.loving and unified. Councillors in Manchester

:01:06. > :01:07.are meeting today to discuss giving Arianne Grande

:01:08. > :01:08.honorary citizenship after she organised that concert

:01:09. > :01:11.to raise funds for victims We'll hear from two

:01:12. > :01:14.survivors of the attack Plus: Bands are song

:01:15. > :01:22.writers are being told not to reveal which musicians

:01:23. > :01:24.inspired their latest tracks for fear they'll be done

:01:25. > :01:26.for copyright infringement. MUSIC: "Blurred Lines"

:01:27. > :01:28.by Robin Thicke ..was found to have

:01:29. > :01:30.copied this one... MUSIC: "Got To Give It

:01:31. > :01:37.Up" by Marvin Gaye. Our full exclusive

:01:38. > :01:49.story before 10am. Throughout the morning,

:01:50. > :01:54.the latest breaking news And, as always, really

:01:55. > :01:59.keen to hear from you. A little later in the programme

:02:00. > :02:02.we'll hear from a former prostitute who's part of a campaign to ban

:02:03. > :02:05.all prostitution related offences Campaigners say at the moment it's

:02:06. > :02:14.too hard for sex workers to move on and find jobs if their records

:02:15. > :02:17.show they've been Use #VictoriaLIVE, and if you text

:02:18. > :02:23.you will be charged President Trump's eldest son has

:02:24. > :02:31.said he didn't tell his father about a meeting last year

:02:32. > :02:33.with a Russian lawyer who was apparently offering to help

:02:34. > :02:35.the Trump election campaign. Yesterday Donald Trump Junior

:02:36. > :02:38.released e-mails which showed he was keen to see what incriminating

:02:39. > :02:41.material the lawyer was prepared to offer on Mr Trump's election

:02:42. > :02:43.rival, Hillary Clinton. The e-mails feature an exchange

:02:44. > :02:48.between Donald Trump Jr and the British publicist Rob

:02:49. > :02:50.Goldstone. Early in the thread,

:02:51. > :02:53.Goldstone says that he can broker a meeting with a Russian journalist,

:02:54. > :02:59.who says he has damaging information about Hillary Clinton,

:03:00. > :03:01.information which would be "useful In retrospect,

:03:02. > :03:21.I probably would have For me this was opposition research,

:03:22. > :03:30.so I wanted to hear it out. Nowhere was it apparent that this

:03:31. > :03:35.is what the meeting was about. President Trump has been largely

:03:36. > :03:37.silent on the issue, saying only that his son

:03:38. > :03:39.was a high-quality person and that Did you tell your father

:03:40. > :03:42.anything about this? I mean, I wouldn't have even

:03:43. > :03:50.remembered it until you start It was literally a wasted 20

:03:51. > :04:05.minutes, which was a shame. President Trump travels to France

:04:06. > :04:08.today, anxious no doubt to escape the impression

:04:09. > :04:10.that his is an administration Joanna Gosling is in the BBC

:04:11. > :04:13.Newsroom with a summary Police investigating

:04:14. > :04:17.the Grenfell Tower fire say the task of identifying all the people

:04:18. > :04:20.who died in the tragedy could take many months but they are determined

:04:21. > :04:23.to "return those who died The head of the recovery team says

:04:24. > :04:26.it's the worst incident Today marks four weeks

:04:27. > :04:30.since the devastating fire, and tonight the community will come

:04:31. > :04:33.together for a vigil to honour those who lost their lives,

:04:34. > :04:36.as Sarah Smith reports. Four weeks of grief and shock,

:04:37. > :04:39.of searching for loved ones Police estimate at least 80

:04:40. > :04:45.people lost their lives. It is the job of the disaster victim

:04:46. > :04:48.identification teams The man leading the job says that

:04:49. > :04:55.it's the worst incident he has We are looking at a fingertip

:04:56. > :05:05.search of all the flats, That would involve officers

:05:06. > :05:08.on their hands and knees. I feel passionate about

:05:09. > :05:10.getting those people back I understand how frustrating

:05:11. > :05:14.it is for people outside of this environment to sit there

:05:15. > :05:16.and wait and say, why can't Tonight, in the shadow

:05:17. > :05:21.of Grenfell's blackened shell, a vigil will be held

:05:22. > :05:25.to remember those who died. One of those who escaped the burning

:05:26. > :05:29.tower is Antonio Roncolato, woken by his son who saw the flames

:05:30. > :05:33.as he returned home. The smoke was very thick,

:05:34. > :05:37.very horrible smell, obviously. I said there was no way

:05:38. > :05:42.I could get out there. He would be led to

:05:43. > :05:47.safety by firefighters. The questions over what happened

:05:48. > :05:49.here started before the flames Similar cladding on more

:05:50. > :05:54.than 200 other buildings has Labour has called for the process

:05:55. > :06:00.to be speeded up, saying the government has been too

:06:01. > :06:03.slow both in helping Grenfell residents and making sure

:06:04. > :06:07.other blocks are safe. Later today there will be a debate

:06:08. > :06:10.in Parliament over the enquiry to be Four weeks on and the real business

:06:11. > :06:17.of finding answers feels as though And the Victoria Derbyshire

:06:18. > :06:27.programme has found that fewer than half the local authorities

:06:28. > :06:31.with tower blocks wrapped in panels that have failed fire safety tests

:06:32. > :06:35.have started to remove the material. Following the Grenfell fire

:06:36. > :06:40.the government said it planned to carry out fire safety tests

:06:41. > :06:42.on 600 buildings across England. But despite every test on material

:06:43. > :06:46.taken from those buildings failing, so far only one in three housing

:06:47. > :06:49.associations and councils have Political parties must do more

:06:50. > :06:56.to prepare candidates for the ruthless nature

:06:57. > :06:58.of campaigning, according A parliamentary cross-party group

:06:59. > :07:02.made the recommendation in a report documenting the scale of abuse

:07:03. > :07:04.and intimidation of parliamentary candidates

:07:05. > :07:07.during the general election. One MP suffered an anti-Semitic

:07:08. > :07:10.attack and another was targeted by racist graffiti

:07:11. > :07:13.and repeated death threats. The report will be debated

:07:14. > :07:17.by MPs this afternoon. The National Audit Office has

:07:18. > :07:21.criticised the government's handling of a new electronic tagging system

:07:22. > :07:27.for offenders in England and Wales after the costly project

:07:28. > :07:30.fell behind schedule. So far, the Ministry of Justice has

:07:31. > :07:33.spent ?60 million on the system, which has fallen five years behind

:07:34. > :07:38.schedule. The ministry's ambition

:07:39. > :07:41.for a bespoke world-leading combined GPS and radio frequency

:07:42. > :07:44.tag proved unachievable. And the programme was also

:07:45. > :07:47.beset by problems in Lloyds Banking Group, which has more

:07:48. > :07:55.than 20 million customers, is scrapping all fees and charges

:07:56. > :07:57.for overdrafts that Last year, the consumer group

:07:58. > :08:02.Which called for a crackdown on unarranged overdraft charges

:08:03. > :08:05.after it found that they could be A charity says every household

:08:06. > :08:11.in the UK should get a one-off rebate of ?285 on its energy bills,

:08:12. > :08:14.because providers have been making excessive profits

:08:15. > :08:16.at the expense of its customers. Citizens Advice says

:08:17. > :08:19.the regulator Ofgem allowed companies to charge too much

:08:20. > :08:23.and overestimated their costs. But Ofgem and energy providers

:08:24. > :08:25.are disputing the claim, as our Personal Finance

:08:26. > :08:31.Correspondent reports. A quarter of our bills is made up

:08:32. > :08:35.of the cost of transporting electricity and gas,

:08:36. > :08:38.a job done by the National Grid and various local

:08:39. > :08:40.network companies who, because this is a monopoly,

:08:41. > :08:44.have their charges vetted Citizens Advice estimates that

:08:45. > :08:50.in the current eight years, which we are halfway through,

:08:51. > :08:52.the network companies stand to make ?7.5 billion of excess profits,

:08:53. > :08:56.hence the demand for a rebate of ?285 per household,

:08:57. > :08:59.the money to be returned Ofgem have overestimated

:09:00. > :09:02.the cost of investment For example, interest rates haven't

:09:03. > :09:09.been as high as they expected. They've also allowed the companies

:09:10. > :09:11.to earn money at the rate that a much riskier company would be

:09:12. > :09:15.able to do and they have not been tough enough with the companies

:09:16. > :09:18.on sharing the benefits of any Ofgem says the cost of getting our

:09:19. > :09:25.gas and electricity to us has been going down and it's

:09:26. > :09:27.already secured rebates. But it's launching a review today

:09:28. > :09:31.of how it sets prices in future. The network companies reject

:09:32. > :09:34.the calculations made by Citizens Advice and point to huge amounts

:09:35. > :09:37.of money they need to invest. This programme has learned that

:09:38. > :09:43.artists are being advised not to state publicly who they're

:09:44. > :09:46.inspired by because of fears it could lead to lawsuits

:09:47. > :09:50.for copyright infringement. It follows the high-profile case

:09:51. > :09:53.in which US jurors ruled that Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams

:09:54. > :09:55.had copied a Marvin Gaye song. This has led to fears that the music

:09:56. > :10:15.industry could become Anthony on Facebook says, 80s music

:10:16. > :10:21.is, was, the best overall. The proof of this is in the number of songs

:10:22. > :10:25.that include samples or are based on 80s songs. Most of not all of these

:10:26. > :10:32.will have obtained authorisation but there are many new sells that cause

:10:33. > :10:37.they be the cause of old songs and tunes and infringe copyright. Does

:10:38. > :10:41.this stay for new music? No. That is the cost of sampling. Due to the

:10:42. > :10:50.greed of the music industry rather than the musicians. Even says yes,

:10:51. > :10:51.copyright laws stifle creativity. We have a really interesting film about

:10:52. > :10:56.that just before 9:30am. Let's get the latest sports

:10:57. > :10:58.headlines with Leah, and it's all about Wimbledon today,

:10:59. > :11:13.isn't it, Leah? Yes. Konta is one match away from

:11:14. > :11:16.the final. She beat her Romanian opponent 2-1. It came with the

:11:17. > :11:22.controversial match point where a scream from someone in the crowd

:11:23. > :11:27.seemed to put them both of. Konta was watched by Virginia Wade who won

:11:28. > :11:34.the tournament in the year of the Queen's Silver Jubilee. Konta will

:11:35. > :11:38.take on Venus Williams on Thursday. Andy Murray will be looking to do

:11:39. > :11:44.the same later than his quarterfinal on Centre Court. He takes on his

:11:45. > :11:51.American opponent and he thinks that his opponent will be a challenging

:11:52. > :11:53.opponent. His brother Jamie and Martina Hingis are through to the

:11:54. > :11:58.last eight of the mixed doubles after winning in straight sets. The

:11:59. > :12:07.match was stopped twice because of rain but they won in an hour and 11

:12:08. > :12:11.minutes. These two are brilliant. They are brothers and wild cards in

:12:12. > :12:16.the men's doubles and becoming one of the unlikely success stories of

:12:17. > :12:20.the tournament. They are through to the quarterfinals but did not expect

:12:21. > :12:25.to last two weeks because they only got their hotel for a week. They are

:12:26. > :12:32.Liverpool fans and have sorted somewhere to stay, a hotel next to

:12:33. > :12:34.Stamford Bridge. We will have more at 9:30am live from Wimbledon.

:12:35. > :12:38.It was exactly four weeks ago that fire broke out at Grenfell Tower

:12:39. > :12:39.in North Kensington, and this programme has discovered

:12:40. > :12:42.that fewer than half the local authority areas with tower blocks

:12:43. > :12:45.wrapped in panels that have failed fire safety tests have started

:12:46. > :12:50.Today the Labour Party describes the fire safety

:12:51. > :12:54.Meanwhile, a consultation period on the terms of reference

:12:55. > :12:57.for the public inquiry into the fire has been extended by two weeks.

:12:58. > :12:59.Many of those affected by the fire have expressed concern

:13:00. > :13:03.that the scope of the inquiry, to be chaired by Sir

:13:04. > :13:04.Martin Moore-Bick, will not be broad enough.

:13:05. > :13:06.MPs will debate the inquiry in Parliament today.

:13:07. > :13:08.We'll get reaction from various guests

:13:09. > :13:10.in a moment but first here's how this programme has

:13:11. > :13:25.covered the story over the last four weeks.

:13:26. > :13:28.I've seen some things but today I can't even describe it.

:13:29. > :13:30.There's mothers that have come out and lost

:13:31. > :13:36.There are firefighters that have come out injured.

:13:37. > :13:38.There was smoke everywhere, literally everywhere.

:13:39. > :13:41.There was people downstairs, there was bits of

:13:42. > :13:48.the cladding falling off the block that was on fire.

:13:49. > :13:52.There's people who were jumping out the place.

:13:53. > :13:54.There's a man who threw two of his children.

:13:55. > :14:20.Honestly, it's all right, you don't have to say any more.

:14:21. > :14:22.I looked behind me and I didn't see my brother.

:14:23. > :14:28.I said, "My brother, my brother, where is he?"

:14:29. > :14:31.Then I went outside, I called him, and I said, "Where are you?"

:14:32. > :14:40.He said, "No one brought me outside."

:14:41. > :16:13.Lives didn't need to be lost and they're lost and people

:16:14. > :16:15.are looking for their children and it's so unfair.

:16:16. > :16:23.Today we're back here in North Kensington

:16:24. > :16:26.to catch up with some of those we first met on that first

:16:27. > :16:28.Wednesday to bring you more remarkable stories of those who

:16:29. > :16:53.escaped and to find out how people are doing.

:16:54. > :16:56.Check it and forget your label of MP, human.

:16:57. > :17:02.Then you will gain the respect and understanding of these

:17:03. > :17:07.The housing minister, I'm told,

:17:08. > :17:12.And his name is Alok Sharma and he has agreed to be with us

:17:13. > :17:16.today after after pressure from residents.

:17:17. > :17:17.So I know you have questions for him.

:17:18. > :17:30.Why is it OK that there are thousands of empty homes

:17:31. > :17:32.right in this area and these people are homeless?

:17:33. > :17:39.Listen, don't give me any rubbish and think I'm going to

:17:40. > :17:41.accept it because I'm not going to accept it.

:17:42. > :17:43.Olu does not want temporary accommodation.

:17:44. > :17:45.He wants good permanent accommodation.

:17:46. > :17:52.Victoria, so, what we have said is that...

:17:53. > :17:58.Can you please be specific as to what package you are offering

:17:59. > :18:00.in terms of housing or rehousing the residents

:18:01. > :18:05.And be specific about it, please, without the flowery words.

:18:06. > :18:07.And can we just get him to speak, otherwise

:18:08. > :18:13.Let the Minister speak so we hear what he's

:18:14. > :18:17.Please let us know what your commitments are.

:18:18. > :18:20.So, what we have committed to is anyone

:18:21. > :18:23.whose home has been destroyed will be housed by next

:18:24. > :18:26.Wednesday in good accommodation and then we will work with -

:18:27. > :18:29.and in housing that is acceptable to them - so what we're not

:18:30. > :18:34.offered a home, you don't like it, and you are still asked to go in.

:18:35. > :18:38.Would you like to meet with the minister again

:18:39. > :18:41.We will be meeting the Minister again.

:18:42. > :18:45.I'll say the same thing I said when I met

:18:46. > :18:49.These are our needs, this is how you can accommodate for us.

:18:50. > :18:52.We do not need you to throw us in temporary accommodation.

:18:53. > :18:55.We do not need you to put me and my family in

:18:56. > :19:00.Meet our needs or just tell us the truth

:19:01. > :19:06.If you can't meet the requirements, it's simple.

:19:07. > :19:42.If you can't do it, tell us the truth.

:19:43. > :19:49.Just this morning police Everest footage of officers from the victim

:19:50. > :20:10.identification group entering Grenfell Tower.

:20:11. > :20:16.Commander Stuart Cundy, the officer leading the investigation has said

:20:17. > :20:21.police are determined to do all we can to return those who died to

:20:22. > :20:27.their families as soon as we can. This is a statement released four

:20:28. > :20:30.weeks on from the terrible tragedy. Met police Sergeant Alastair

:20:31. > :20:33.Hutchinson is the officer leading on identifying victims.

:20:34. > :20:45.We believe in dignity in death, repatriating family members as soon

:20:46. > :20:47.as we can and adhering to an identification process that will

:20:48. > :20:58.ensure that the right person gets brought back to their loved ones.

:20:59. > :21:01.We can speak now to Moyra Samuels from the Justice for Grenfell group,

:21:02. > :21:02.Pilgrim Tucker, a community organiser, who supported

:21:03. > :21:04.Grenfell Tower residents' campaign, the Grenfell Action Group,

:21:05. > :21:06.Melanie Onn, Labour's spokesperson on housing, and Lucy Masoud,

:21:07. > :21:11.a Chelsea firefighter and union official.

:21:12. > :21:17.Moira, let me ask you, your assessment, if you like, of where

:21:18. > :21:23.the survivors and residents are four weeks on? I think, as people have

:21:24. > :21:31.indicated, there are still a lot of disorganisation. We have only had 18

:21:32. > :21:35.families that have been rehoused. You know, a survivor I spoke to said

:21:36. > :21:43.they had been made an offer that was withdrawn. I think people still feel

:21:44. > :21:49.the system is still a little bit disjointed, and their needs are not

:21:50. > :21:53.really being met. Is that fair, Pilgrim? You were nodding in

:21:54. > :21:56.agreement. I would echo that completely but I would say not a

:21:57. > :22:02.little bit, I would say there are still a total failure continuing.

:22:03. > :22:05.Have there been no improvements? Very minor improvements, but these

:22:06. > :22:09.residents and survivors are daily being faced with an onslaught of

:22:10. > :22:13.queues, as Joe mentioned earlier in the film, terrible decisions they

:22:14. > :22:20.have to make, chopping and changing with a public enquiry. And very,

:22:21. > :22:26.very difficult problems with their housing, and still actually

:22:27. > :22:29.incompetence, and an inability of whoever is in authority to put

:22:30. > :22:31.themselves in the shoes of these people and actually approached them

:22:32. > :22:37.in a caring manner, which will help them. And use the resources that the

:22:38. > :22:41.council have. This is the wealthiest council in the whole of the UK, and

:22:42. > :22:45.they can afford to house these people properly and securely. You

:22:46. > :22:51.mean by using some of the reserves that the council have the buy new

:22:52. > :22:55.properties? Yes. 300 million reserve, they have 1400 empty

:22:56. > :23:02.properties in Kensington and Chelsea. Requisitioning. Do what you

:23:03. > :23:05.need to do, buy them. You can't have a month after a fire of this nature

:23:06. > :23:13.with only 18 families have been rehoused. As I understand it, offers

:23:14. > :23:16.of accommodation have been made to 158 families, 18 have accepted, and

:23:17. > :23:20.we have reported on this programme some of the reasons why others have

:23:21. > :23:22.turned it down, because they are worried about getting something

:23:23. > :23:26.permanent within the borough if they have been offered something

:23:27. > :23:31.temporary outside, or it is just inappropriate, unsuitable, not big

:23:32. > :23:36.enough, or far away. Let me ask you, Melanie, Labour's spokesman on

:23:37. > :23:41.housing, you have this debate in the Commons today, what is the point of

:23:42. > :23:44.it? It is about putting pressure on the government to be as open and

:23:45. > :23:47.transparent as possible about the progress they are making if there

:23:48. > :23:50.has been any, because without doing that the residents are not going to

:23:51. > :23:54.start to see any of the benefits that the government really should be

:23:55. > :24:00.able to offer. We are hoping that there will be answers around the

:24:01. > :24:03.status of the tower blocks around the rest of the country because we

:24:04. > :24:07.know that only 500 have been tested. The focus of the government has been

:24:08. > :24:10.on those tower blocks that have the same kind of cladding is the

:24:11. > :24:15.Grenfell Tower, but there are much bigger questions. If there were to

:24:16. > :24:18.be a fire and another block somewhere in the country, what with

:24:19. > :24:21.the response be? Would it be the same situation all over again,

:24:22. > :24:26.because it is really important that we lose that -- learn the lessons of

:24:27. > :24:32.Grenfell and quickly. We have discovered that the tower blocks

:24:33. > :24:36.that have failed, only half of the blocks have yet had those panels

:24:37. > :24:41.removed. Do you think it could be speeded up? We are saying that a lot

:24:42. > :24:45.of the information coming from government has been so unclear, and

:24:46. > :24:49.that is reflected in the comments of residents from Grenfell. We know

:24:50. > :24:52.that Salford council for examples courted its deep cladding of its

:24:53. > :24:57.tower blocks because of information coming from government about safety

:24:58. > :25:04.has not been clear. Is it safer to keep the cladding on or not? --

:25:05. > :25:10.Kensington and Chelsea council has a new leader. It is Elizabeth

:25:11. > :25:14.Campbell, and she was asked on Radio 4 if she had ever been inside

:25:15. > :25:23.Grenfell Tower. This is what she said. Had you ever been inside? I am

:25:24. > :25:31.going before. Before the fire? I haven't been inside before the fire?

:25:32. > :25:35.Had you ever been inside the traffic tower? Not trailer, not Grenfell,

:25:36. > :25:41.but I have been inside many other council houses. But the high-rise

:25:42. > :25:45.ones, have you ever been inside any of them, before the Grenfell Tower,

:25:46. > :25:50.haven't you ever been up into any of those high-rise council blocks? I

:25:51. > :26:06.had not, but I am certainly doing that now. You are shaking your head.

:26:07. > :26:10.It is a person so disconnected. They are completely disconnected from the

:26:11. > :26:16.community. I would go so far as to say they actually have disdain for

:26:17. > :26:20.the North Kensington community. This new leader, the first thing she did

:26:21. > :26:26.was apologise for the failings of the council to the survivors. Too

:26:27. > :26:32.little, too late, sorry, and she has been implicated in a lot of the cuts

:26:33. > :26:37.we have seen across the borough. We have been talking about the cuts to

:26:38. > :26:44.services. Housing being one of them. And she is implicated in them. How

:26:45. > :26:49.do you react, Pilgrim? Again, I think Moyra is correct in everything

:26:50. > :26:52.she has just said. I think the new council leader has an opportunity

:26:53. > :26:56.here, and I think if she wants to last in her political career, she

:26:57. > :27:00.needs to take drastic action, and they do have the resources to help

:27:01. > :27:03.this situation, and they can rehoused these people, and that

:27:04. > :27:10.would be one way of genuinely showing that she was sorry. So

:27:11. > :27:15.action, not just words. Lucy, hello, Chelsea firefighter and union

:27:16. > :27:18.official. In terms of the firefighters and the magnificent

:27:19. > :27:24.efforts they tried to make that night, where are we now, in terms of

:27:25. > :27:29.when you look back, how things could have been done differently? Firstly

:27:30. > :27:32.I would like to pay tribute to my firefighters who fought tirelessly

:27:33. > :27:36.on that day, the brave men and women but also the control workers who

:27:37. > :27:39.took those calls from those victims, and in many cases heard people

:27:40. > :27:44.perish on the end of the phone. I would like to pay tribute to them. I

:27:45. > :27:47.think everyone involved, including all the emergency services, dealt

:27:48. > :27:52.with the incident amazingly, but I do feel that we didn't have the

:27:53. > :27:57.right resources. Of course it is far too early to speculate. My union are

:27:58. > :28:01.doing the own investigation into the fire. Certainly we feel that the

:28:02. > :28:07.cuts that have affected us over the last three years, we are talking

:28:08. > :28:10.about ?130 million to London Fire emergency and rescue services by the

:28:11. > :28:18.former mayor, now Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, the closure of ten

:28:19. > :28:21.fire station, 29 fire stations -- fire engines taken off-line, the

:28:22. > :28:25.removal of 20,000 firefighters, we think that had an effect. You also

:28:26. > :28:31.didn't have an aerial platform that went high enough, you had one that

:28:32. > :28:36.went up to 32 metres, the tower was 70. You are right, the highest

:28:37. > :28:40.ladder in London is 32 metres, the higher slider in the UK is in

:28:41. > :28:44.Surrey, 42 metres, we have to ask for them to send their ladder, it

:28:45. > :28:47.took hours for it to get us. Again it is too early to speculate what

:28:48. > :28:52.difference that would have made, but we know for instance there is a fire

:28:53. > :28:58.engine or a fire station in Mumbai that has a ladder that goes up to 90

:28:59. > :29:01.metres. Why does the UK, the 13th richest country in the world, not

:29:02. > :29:07.have ladders go up to 90 metres, where they are available? Why do you

:29:08. > :29:13.think? I think our former mayor spent far too much money, ?320,000

:29:14. > :29:20.on illegal water cannons that were useless and not used. Did we used to

:29:21. > :29:25.have big aerial platforms? The money has never been put in. So we have

:29:26. > :29:29.never had one is over 42? Absolutely not, and they have been available to

:29:30. > :29:35.sometimes, there are over 100 ladders that reach up to 90 metres,

:29:36. > :29:40.are -- our highest ladder in London goes up to 32 metres. Jenny tweets

:29:41. > :29:46.this, I cannot believe the complete disregard for the victims of

:29:47. > :29:50.Grenfell. E-mail from Douglas, it is a time to start asking why flammable

:29:51. > :29:53.material is allowed to be manufactured from building purposes

:29:54. > :29:56.at all. Roses as your programme has done more than any other to give

:29:57. > :30:00.voices to the people of Grenfell Tower, and so it goes on. Thank you

:30:01. > :30:02.all of you, we will watch the debate very carefully this afternoon in the

:30:03. > :30:09.Commons. Thank you for coming along. It is half past nine. Time for the

:30:10. > :30:14.latest news headlines with Joanna. Here's Joanna Gosling

:30:15. > :30:19.in the BBC Newsroom President Trump's eldest son has

:30:20. > :30:26.said he didn't tell his father about a meeting last year

:30:27. > :30:28.with a Russian lawyer who was apparently offering to help

:30:29. > :30:31.the Trump election campaign. Yesterday Donald Trump Junior

:30:32. > :30:33.released e-mails which showed he was keen to see what incriminating

:30:34. > :30:35.material the lawyer was prepared to offer on Mr Trump's election

:30:36. > :30:38.rival, Hillary Clinton. Police investigating

:30:39. > :30:40.the Grenfell Tower fire say the task of identifying all the people

:30:41. > :30:43.who died in the tragedy could take many months but they are determined

:30:44. > :30:45.to "return those who died The head of the recovery team says

:30:46. > :30:49.it's the worst incident Today marks four weeks

:30:50. > :30:52.since the devastating fire, and tonight the community will come

:30:53. > :30:55.together for a vigil to honour those And the Victoria Derbyshire

:30:56. > :30:58.programme has found that fewer than half the local authorities

:30:59. > :31:05.with tower blocks wrapped in panels that have failed fire safety tests

:31:06. > :31:08.have started to remove the material. Following the Grenfell fire

:31:09. > :31:11.the government said it planned to carry out fire safety tests

:31:12. > :31:14.on 600 buildings across England. But despite every test on material

:31:15. > :31:17.taken from those buildings failing, so far only one in three housing

:31:18. > :31:19.associations and councils have That's a summary of

:31:20. > :31:36.the latest BBC News. Johanna Konta is the semi-finals and

:31:37. > :31:43.Andy Murray is hoping to make it this afternoon. Our reporter is

:31:44. > :31:49.there. It is freezing. We are causing

:31:50. > :31:53.chaos. We wanted to show you the Royal Box. This is where might the

:31:54. > :31:58.great and the good come. They have to make it really tidy and clean.

:31:59. > :32:03.They have left behind a little bit of equipment. Maybe I will get to

:32:04. > :32:08.work with that later. It is freezing. I am sure that it should

:32:09. > :32:14.warm up. It has been raining during the night. The forecast is good. We

:32:15. > :32:18.are going to keep our fingers crossed. It is chilly but I am

:32:19. > :32:28.joined by someone you might recognise. Serena Williams' coach.

:32:29. > :32:33.Even though your face. We see you in the box when Serena is playing and

:32:34. > :32:38.you are willing heart on, maybe sometimes showed encouragement.

:32:39. > :32:47.Sometimes. Sometimes cool and not seeing anything. I've tried to send

:32:48. > :32:52.to hire the right vibe. You have a little bit of downtime, not that

:32:53. > :32:56.much because the rear is still keeping fit and playing. She is of

:32:57. > :33:01.having a baby, due in a couple of months. You have taken the

:33:02. > :33:04.opportunity to write your life story and how you came to be coached to

:33:05. > :33:10.one of the greatest athletes of all time. Yes. I wrote a book because my

:33:11. > :33:15.editor proposed me to do it, an autobiography. I felt I was too

:33:16. > :33:23.young but she filed I was old enough. It is explaining how I was a

:33:24. > :33:30.very shy kid, very sick, very bad at school, my future looked terrible

:33:31. > :33:34.and at a certain point when I was 11, 12, 13, I took decisions to

:33:35. > :33:39.change my life and maybe in the future have the chance to live the

:33:40. > :33:43.life I was dreaming of and it happened because I made those

:33:44. > :33:49.changes. My editor vertebra is undressing for people to understand

:33:50. > :33:56.how you can change your life to have a chance to live your dreams. That

:33:57. > :34:01.is what I did. I started at 26 my academy and it is the biggest

:34:02. > :34:03.academy of Europe. I was not a professional tennis player and I was

:34:04. > :34:09.able to work with professional tennis players, great players, and

:34:10. > :34:15.finally Serena, who became the greatest of all time. I cannot be

:34:16. > :34:20.lucky to be able to live that life. It is also the consequence of a few

:34:21. > :34:25.decisions. That is the story of the book. It is exciting even for people

:34:26. > :34:34.who are not into tennis because it is also about life. It is also about

:34:35. > :34:37.coaching. We see players compete, we lose all this emotion. People do not

:34:38. > :34:44.know what is done behind-the-scenes. That is what I explain. Let me make

:34:45. > :34:49.use of your coaching experience and ask what Johanna Konta should be

:34:50. > :34:54.focusing on. The first British woman through to a semifinal in 39 years.

:34:55. > :35:00.I understand why you keep your eyes on that. It is going to be difficult

:35:01. > :35:05.match for her because she is facing Venus is the best the four players

:35:06. > :35:15.still in the draw on grass. She has been so successful in the last 15,

:35:16. > :35:19.20 years. Five trophies here and the mike other finals. She played the

:35:20. > :35:27.final of the first Grand Slam of the season. Johanna Konta will have to

:35:28. > :35:34.beat her. I am so impressed by what she has done so far. So focused, so

:35:35. > :35:39.good on the big points. Whenever she had to defend her serve she has been

:35:40. > :35:45.doing incredibly well. She has been really impressive. She has to be

:35:46. > :35:51.tired physically and mentally. So many tough fights. When you have to

:35:52. > :35:55.stay into the match for two and a half hours and you cannot afford to

:35:56. > :36:02.lose your server, you defend points, you play two tie-breaks, she left a

:36:03. > :36:06.lot of mental strength on all of those fights she had to face. I hope

:36:07. > :36:13.she will be able to keep the same level of intensity for every point

:36:14. > :36:18.because she will have to. How battle is mental. Andy Murray's battle is

:36:19. > :36:23.more physical and with himself, managing an injury. That is true. It

:36:24. > :36:29.is so difficult to play being injured. It is sad because he

:36:30. > :36:33.finally comes back to a good level just before Wimbledon at the right

:36:34. > :36:38.time after making an enormous effort to become world number one in the

:36:39. > :36:43.world, physical and mental. I was very impressed with what he did last

:36:44. > :36:47.year. When you make such an effort you pay the price afterwards that is

:36:48. > :36:52.what happened at the start of the season, he was exhausted mentally.

:36:53. > :36:59.He reached his ultimate goal. When you do so you need time to be said.

:37:00. > :37:04.It is a difficult period. He is back and he has a problem with his hip.

:37:05. > :37:11.He has been managing that not so bad. When you reach this stage you

:37:12. > :37:17.have to be 100%. How is Serena? When can we see her back? She wants to be

:37:18. > :37:23.back so bad. She is seven months pregnant. She is so happy about

:37:24. > :37:30.becoming a mother but she misses matches. She is unable to compete

:37:31. > :37:36.and she is wanting other bee book on beating. When she announced she was

:37:37. > :37:42.pregnant she said I am pregnant but I am not done with tennis. Please

:37:43. > :37:47.wait for me. I will be back soon. I will be waiting for her. She wants

:37:48. > :37:51.to come back as early as she can. We do not know how long it will take

:37:52. > :37:58.for her body to recover but you will see her again definitely. Thank you

:37:59. > :38:02.for joining us. Serena taking a very unusual approach to maternity leave.

:38:03. > :38:08.I thought you were supposed to sit on your silver and eat somebody's

:38:09. > :38:21.and chocolate. She does, but she plays tennis every day. That is

:38:22. > :38:29.unusual. It is good to know that the emergency alarm is working

:38:30. > :38:42.perfectly! Unemployment fell by 64,000 down to 1.49 million in the

:38:43. > :38:50.three months to me. Average earnings increased by 1.8% in the year to

:38:51. > :38:55.May, down by 0.3% on the previous month, average earnings increasing

:38:56. > :38:57.across the whole year by 1.8% but that is down by 0.3% on the previous

:38:58. > :39:12.month. A gay man fighting to win his

:39:13. > :39:15.husband the same pension rights a wife would enjoy in a heterosexual

:39:16. > :39:17.relationship has told this programme he felt the law

:39:18. > :39:19.was "totally discriminatory". Former cavalry officer John Walker,

:39:20. > :39:22.who's 65, will find out the result of his battle at the UK's highest

:39:23. > :39:25.court in the next few minutes. He wants to ensure that

:39:26. > :39:28.if he died first, his husband, who is in his 50s, will be

:39:29. > :39:30.adequately provided for. Speaking to me before the ruling,

:39:31. > :39:33.he said the decision would be "the end of the legal road" for him

:39:34. > :39:39.after an 11 year fight. I joined a company where I had to

:39:40. > :39:43.join the pension fund, it was contributed a, I paid and 423 years

:39:44. > :39:47.the same as other colleagues. The fact I had a civil partnership and

:39:48. > :39:54.married a same-sex partner, my partner will get no disposal pension

:39:55. > :40:00.rights whereas if I was divorced, to divorce my partner and marry a woman

:40:01. > :40:06.she would get full rights, thousands of pounds. It is total

:40:07. > :40:11.discrimination. In cash terms, if you died and had the wife, how much

:40:12. > :40:15.would she get and how much would your husband get? She would get

:40:16. > :40:22.somewhere between ?45,000 and ?50,000 a year and my husband would

:40:23. > :40:28.get somewhere between ?500 in ?1000 a year. Explain the law. We have

:40:29. > :40:33.human rights law and equality law and we have equal marriage but we

:40:34. > :40:39.only have equal married in name because there is this loophole in

:40:40. > :40:43.the quality legislation which means that people in same-sex marriages

:40:44. > :40:47.cannot have the same pension rights as people in heterosexual marriages.

:40:48. > :40:55.It is civil partnerships as well. Correct. In the past this has gone

:40:56. > :41:00.against you. If things go your way today what are the implications for

:41:01. > :41:06.others? It means that thousands of loving couples all over the UK can

:41:07. > :41:09.have equal access to pension arrangements and equal marriage

:41:10. > :41:15.looks more like equal marriage and we can properly claim to be an equal

:41:16. > :41:19.and human rights compliant society so we hope that is what happens and

:41:20. > :41:25.even if we do not win the case the couple -- government can do the

:41:26. > :41:31.right thing. You have been fighting this case for 11 years. What has

:41:32. > :41:43.that been like? Stressful. But life goes on. The end of the legal road

:41:44. > :41:47.today. 11.5 years. It is a big day. How have you been affected in terms

:41:48. > :41:52.of your life as a couple? How has this impacted on you both? We have

:41:53. > :41:57.tried not to let it impact too much. We have had huge support from Martha

:41:58. > :42:04.and her colleagues, from many friends and people from our company.

:42:05. > :42:09.It is stressful because I am a reasonably organised person, I'd

:42:10. > :42:15.like to plan things and have things planned, it is likely statistically

:42:16. > :42:21.that I will predeceased my husband, I am older than him, so I would like

:42:22. > :42:30.to have everything tied up. Maybe today will be able to do that, maybe

:42:31. > :42:35.not. Thank you. We are expecting the judgment any moment. As soon as we

:42:36. > :42:38.hear it we will bring it to you live.

:42:39. > :42:40.This programme has learned that artists are being advised not

:42:41. > :42:43.to state publicly who they're inspired by on their new music

:42:44. > :42:45.because of fears it could lead to lawsuits

:42:46. > :42:48.It follows the high-profile case in which US jurors ruled that

:42:49. > :42:51.Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams, on their track Blurred Lines,

:42:52. > :42:53.had copied Marvin Gaye's Got To Give It Up.

:42:54. > :42:56.An appeal against that ruling is due to be heard over

:42:57. > :43:03.Our reporter Chi Chi Izundu has been looking at claims that that

:43:04. > :43:05.judgement has left the music industry "nervous" and

:43:06. > :43:08.MUSIC: Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke ft TI, Pharrell

:43:09. > :43:18.This is the story of two songs

:43:19. > :43:19.and one court judgment and its impact

:43:20. > :43:25.I think it was decided in a way that has got everybody feeling a

:43:26. > :43:37.I hate all this, "Oh, I'm completely original," you know, "I've

:43:38. > :43:43.Because some are now asking whether they should stop even

:43:44. > :43:51.talking about artists who inspire them.

:43:52. > :43:53.So do you know of labels telling artists not to publicly

:43:54. > :44:07.So, what is the difference, if any, between being inspired by a

:44:08. > :44:19.Got To Give It Up by Marvin Gaye was released in

:44:20. > :44:22.1977 and reached number seven in the UK charts and number one

:44:23. > :44:30.Blurred Lines was globally the biggest track of 2013,

:44:31. > :44:36.raking in more than ?12 million in profits from sales alone.

:44:37. > :44:39.In 2015 Pharrell Williams and Robin Thicke

:44:40. > :44:45.were told their track Blurred Lines breached copyright.

:44:46. > :44:48.Marvin Gaye's estate was awarded just over

:44:49. > :44:54.?4 million and 50% interest in future royalties.

:44:55. > :45:01.Pharrell Williams told the court that Marvin Gaye's music was the

:45:02. > :45:05.soundtrack of his youth and that he was channelling that 70s feeling.

:45:06. > :45:07.Note the use of the word feeling in this deposition video

:45:08. > :45:12.When you were creating Blurred Lines, were you

:45:13. > :45:15.trying to pretend that you were Marvin Gaye?

:45:16. > :45:26.But as I look back I feel that feeling when I went in the

:45:27. > :45:29.studio to work with Robin I sought out a bluegrassy chord structure

:45:30. > :45:33.that I felt like could be interesting on a soulful voice.

:45:34. > :45:36.It felt like Marvin Gaye going into Nashville making a groove.

:45:37. > :45:38.What you try and do with copyright is work

:45:39. > :45:42.Peter Oxendale is one of a handful of

:45:43. > :45:48.forensic musicologists in the world and he says the judgment

:45:49. > :45:50.was about the feel or the groove of the song,

:45:51. > :45:52.not copying directly, and it's had huge implications.

:45:53. > :45:55.So it's not just a group of notes or a lyric that's

:45:56. > :46:04.It's just, maybe I was inspired by your watch, basically?

:46:05. > :46:06.Simply nothing's really changed but everyone's concerned that

:46:07. > :46:10.inspiration can be a catalyst for infringement.

:46:11. > :46:13.And so all of these companies are worried that if a

:46:14. > :46:16.track is referenced on another at all that there may be a claim being

:46:17. > :46:19.brought, and what they are really fearful of is a claim being brought

:46:20. > :46:27.Over in California, Richard Busch, the

:46:28. > :46:30.Gayes' family lawyer, says that's not true.

:46:31. > :46:35.That is the story that the Pharrell and Robin Thicke camp have

:46:36. > :46:40.been telling to try to drum up support for this the-sky-is-falling,

:46:41. > :46:45.no-one's-going-to-be-able-to-create- music,

:46:46. > :46:46.you'll-be-sued-for-whistling-in-pub- lic kind of argument

:46:47. > :46:52.If anyone was actually aware of the evidence and the facts

:46:53. > :46:54.that were presented, you would know that it

:46:55. > :46:58.This inspiration, this feeling that they

:46:59. > :47:02.try to say was the basis for the decision.

:47:03. > :47:05.In fact, I believe we had 15 different compositional elements

:47:06. > :47:07.that we identified as being substantially similar between

:47:08. > :47:15.Well, maybe Pharrell's camp are winning in the courts of public

:47:16. > :47:16.opinion, because questions and doubts

:47:17. > :47:21.are still being raised in the

:47:22. > :47:23.industry, as Ed Sheeran's lawyer Simon Dixon can confirm.

:47:24. > :47:27.It wouldn't have been decided the same

:47:28. > :47:32.way over here, so as a result I think everybody felt that they knew

:47:33. > :47:35.what the law was, I felt they knew what the parameters were.

:47:36. > :47:37.And when you know what the laws are and the

:47:38. > :47:41.This injects an element of grey into the picture.

:47:42. > :47:44.So as a result people are less certain now about what they

:47:45. > :47:47.can and can't do, and as a result, as I say, everybody feels

:47:48. > :47:51.So those are the behind-the-scenes arguments but what

:47:52. > :47:53.about the artists who write, compose, produce

:47:54. > :48:04.We're all inspired by something, there's influence in everything.

:48:05. > :48:06.But I just think the responsibility of

:48:07. > :48:08.the songwriter is always to push forward, which always involves

:48:09. > :48:15.nodding back, which is important too.

:48:16. > :48:19.But I think if you're feeling self-conscious about that I think

:48:20. > :48:20.there's another battle going on there...

:48:21. > :48:30.There is no such thing as a completely original composition.

:48:31. > :48:32.We learn music by practising, and what

:48:33. > :48:37.We practise patterns, we practise scales.

:48:38. > :48:38.We're reinterpreting these formulas over

:48:39. > :48:53.You know, if I play a song that goes doo-doo doo-doo, I'm

:48:54. > :48:56.playing doo-doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo-doo.

:48:57. > :48:58.The art of music-making is the reinterpretation

:48:59. > :49:12.We all listen to stuff and we all get ideas

:49:13. > :49:18.The trick of it, I think, is trying to turn those ideas into

:49:19. > :49:21.something new, rather than just repeat them or copy them.

:49:22. > :49:28.I mean, I know how to write songs because I heard one, so

:49:29. > :49:32.I know what a verse is and a chorus is and a break and all those things.

:49:33. > :49:34.You only learn that by listening to it.

:49:35. > :49:40.So you are influenced simply by listening to music.

:49:41. > :49:43.Even if you don't like the music, it's going to

:49:44. > :49:49.And according to experts, just to be on

:49:50. > :49:52.the safe side, labels are cautiously making sure new music from their

:49:53. > :49:54.artists doesn't skirt too closely to work from the past.

:49:55. > :49:59.The process is known as forensically checking music.

:50:00. > :50:02.Many of the companies that I work with ask the producers and the

:50:03. > :50:05.artists to declare all of the tracks that may have been used as

:50:06. > :50:12.They send them to me well in advance of release, probably six months

:50:13. > :50:27.producers and composers, from Hans Zimmer to R Kelly, signed

:50:28. > :50:31.a court document backing Blurred Lines

:50:32. > :50:35.was allowed to stand it is very dangerous to the music community

:50:36. > :50:38.and is certain to stifle creativity and impede the creative process.

:50:39. > :50:40.But the battle lines were drawn when musicologists

:50:41. > :50:42.and acts behind hits like Could It Be I'm Falling In

:50:43. > :50:45.Love, along with other businesses, backed the Marvin Gaye family

:50:46. > :50:48.calling the motion hypothetical, because the decision was based on

:50:49. > :50:50.disputed evidence about protectable aspects

:50:51. > :50:58.I think it's a great shame because, speaking personally, I've

:50:59. > :51:01.been influenced by Motown, rock and roll, punk,

:51:02. > :51:04.all this stuff, 90s music, dance music, and if I am a

:51:05. > :51:06.good musician, I hope I am, or musicologist,

:51:07. > :51:08.because of all these influences taken on board, I'm proud

:51:09. > :51:11.of these influences and it's a great shame that artists are actually

:51:12. > :51:23.disinclined to reveal their inspirations.

:51:24. > :51:25.In the Blurred Lines case, Robin Thicke's interviews went

:51:26. > :51:27.well beyond saying that he was simply inspired

:51:28. > :51:33.What he said in his interviews was that he and Pharrell, or he

:51:34. > :51:34.directed Pharrell, to create a song

:51:35. > :51:38.just like Got To Give It Up, and that they tried to get the same

:51:39. > :51:40.rhythm and those types of things going in

:51:41. > :51:43.So it's much more than just inspiration.

:51:44. > :51:45.In just over two months, Pharrell Williams,

:51:46. > :51:48.Robin Thicke and the Marvin Gaye estate will be back in court in the

:51:49. > :51:54.If Pharrell wins, it could mean a brand-new trial and the music

:51:55. > :52:01.industry has to go through this whole thing again.

:52:02. > :52:03.Whatever the verdict, it does seem that the

:52:04. > :52:05.industry will be extremely wary about copyright, as well as

:52:06. > :52:10.creativity, when it comes to releasing new music.

:52:11. > :52:12.Later in the programme, we'll be getting reaction

:52:13. > :52:21.She organised the concert that raised ?2 million

:52:22. > :52:23.for victims of the terror attack in Manchester, but should singer

:52:24. > :52:25.Ariana Grande be given honorary citizenship of the city?

:52:26. > :52:35.We'll talk to two survivors with very different opinions.

:52:36. > :52:38.Another little bit of history was made at Wimbledon yesterday

:52:39. > :52:40.when Johanna Konta became Britain's first female Wimbledon semi-finalist

:52:41. > :52:50.since Virginia Wade almost 40 years ago in 1978.

:52:51. > :53:09.It's been 39 years since a British woman can say, I'm a

:53:10. > :53:37.She's done it in front of the last woman to do it, Virginia Wade.

:53:38. > :53:39.It raises the very tantalising prospect that a Brit

:53:40. > :53:41.could win both the women's and men's title at

:53:42. > :53:50.Not to forget a potential third title for Andy's brother

:53:51. > :53:53.Jamie Murray who is progressing well in the mixed doubles.

:53:54. > :53:55.Johanna Konta's rise to the top of British tennis has been

:53:56. > :53:59.Last year she didn't get past the second round of Wimbledon.

:54:00. > :54:02.So for the next few minutes, here's everything you need

:54:03. > :54:07.In 2009, she was ranked 469 in the world.

:54:08. > :54:10.Two years ago in 2015, she was ranked 126 in the world,

:54:11. > :54:13.last year she was ranked 19th, and now she's officially ranked

:54:14. > :54:16.Though that will change after Wimbledon.

:54:17. > :54:19.In the past 12 months she's won titles in Los

:54:20. > :54:34.She was born to Hungarian parents in Sydney, Australia,

:54:35. > :54:37.and lived there till the age of 14 when she move to the UK,

:54:38. > :54:39.she officially took British citizenship and began playing

:54:40. > :54:45.I've always, ever since I moved here, I've spent

:54:46. > :54:48.I really, essentially, grew into the tennis

:54:49. > :54:51.player but also, more importantly, the person I am today here.

:54:52. > :54:55.It was never a case of me feeling more and more British.

:54:56. > :55:07.She was introduced to tennis at the age of eight and soon became

:55:08. > :55:10.fiercely competitive. She has described herself as highly strung

:55:11. > :55:15.in the past, and acknowledges that she once reduce the assisted the

:55:16. > :55:18.tears during a game of Monopoly. The family are not particularly sporty,

:55:19. > :55:19.her dad runs hotels and her mum is a dentist but they have always

:55:20. > :55:35.supported her in her career. One of her grandfathers,

:55:36. > :55:38.Tamas Kertesz, played twice for Hungary in the 1950s

:55:39. > :55:41.and went on to coach Ghana. She's coached by Wim Fissette,

:55:42. > :55:47.who has previously helped former world No 1s Victoria Azarenka

:55:48. > :55:50.and Kim Clijsters. Her boyfriend Jackson Wade

:55:51. > :55:52.has been cheering her They've been dating since

:55:53. > :55:55.she won the Miami Open - thought she's fiercely private

:55:56. > :55:57.about her private life. She lists movies, reading

:55:58. > :55:59.and shopping among things she likes to do in her spare time

:56:00. > :56:02.She's also a huge fan of Van Morrison and U2, saying she's

:56:03. > :56:05.remortage her house for a chance Last year she went to see

:56:06. > :56:09.Taylor Swift in Hyde Park She keeps a relatively low profile

:56:10. > :56:13.and is fairly unshowy compared to other tennis stars -

:56:14. > :56:15.admitting she's not too She has however been able

:56:16. > :56:19.to ditch her old Peugeot hatchback for a fancy red Jaguar,

:56:20. > :56:21.given to her by her sponsor. You've no doubt heard plenty

:56:22. > :56:24.about Johanna Konta baking muffins every day after Wimbledon -

:56:25. > :56:27.she's a bit of a foodie overall and says she's "always hungry" -

:56:28. > :56:29.but never deprives herself of anything, including

:56:30. > :56:30.pizza and gelato. A typical day's diet

:56:31. > :56:33.would be - for breakfast - and a slice of rye toast

:56:34. > :56:37.with ham....then for lunch - tuna salad, and a bowl of steamed

:56:38. > :56:40.brown rice...and for dinner - pizza with ham and mushrooms

:56:41. > :56:42.and a salad....with snacks of bananas and blueberry

:56:43. > :56:54.and raspberry chia pudding. Justin Sherring is owner and head

:56:55. > :56:57.coach at Weybridge Tennis Academy and coached Johanna Konta

:56:58. > :57:05.in her teens What was she like then? Very much

:57:06. > :57:10.like you see her now, very bubbly, very enthusiastic, very passionate

:57:11. > :57:16.and very focused. Did she say to you back then I want to win Wimbledon? I

:57:17. > :57:24.don't think she did, but if she did she might have said it with a big

:57:25. > :57:26.tongue in her cheek, but as we have seen over the last couple of years,

:57:27. > :57:30.she means business, and she meant business back on the day when she

:57:31. > :57:36.was training very hard for this moment. Did you see potential in her

:57:37. > :57:40.the winning a grand slam title? I saw potential as someone who could

:57:41. > :57:44.play at a very high level. I didn't know whether that level was grand

:57:45. > :57:48.slam semifinalist or Wimbledon winner potentially. But I knew that

:57:49. > :57:53.she could play at a very high level. She had some very special. Do you

:57:54. > :58:01.think she will win at this time, don't say you hope she is. The

:58:02. > :58:04.title. I think she can win the title, let's just say, she is

:58:05. > :58:12.hitting the ball well enough and she plays like she has I think she can

:58:13. > :58:16.do it, yes. Thank you rematch, Justin. The latest news and sport on

:58:17. > :58:17.the way, before that all of the weather forward modern and the rest

:58:18. > :58:25.of the UK. Much improved conditions across the

:58:26. > :58:28.country after all the cloud and outbreaks of heavy rain across the

:58:29. > :58:32.south-east. Conditions will continue to improve and it becomes largely

:58:33. > :58:35.dry with plenty in the way of sunshine developing as we head to

:58:36. > :58:40.the afternoon, that rain clearing the Kent and Sussex coast, allowing

:58:41. > :58:44.the sunshine through the Southern counties, and across the country

:58:45. > :58:45.with light winds, feeling quite pleasant in the sunshine,

:58:46. > :58:50.temperatures widely reaching the high teens and the low 20s. So for

:58:51. > :58:53.one wouldn't conditions will be fine proved why the afternoon commute can

:58:54. > :58:57.swap the umbrella for some sunscreen as we are expecting some sunshine,

:58:58. > :59:01.dry conditions and temperatures reaching up to 22. We continue with

:59:02. > :59:05.fine weather as we head into the evening, high there with us, long

:59:06. > :59:10.clear spells overnight and turning quite chilly, especially for some

:59:11. > :59:13.sheltered rural glens. Tomorrow, Kauto Star, sunshine around but also

:59:14. > :59:16.scattered showers developing, but the bulk of those showers for

:59:17. > :59:20.Northern Ireland and north-western parts of Scotland. Temperatures

:59:21. > :59:28.still reaching the high teens and low 20s. That is your forecast.

:59:29. > :59:40.Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 10am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:59:41. > :59:49.The community of the Grenfell Tower fire have said they are struggling.

:59:50. > :00:02.I had not been inside before the fire. I have been inside many other

:00:03. > :00:06.council houses. The council are completely disconnected from the

:00:07. > :00:20.community. They have disdain for the north -- north Kensington community.

:00:21. > :00:23.Plus this programme has discovered that fewer than half the local

:00:24. > :00:26.authority areas with tower blocks that have failed safety tests have

:00:27. > :00:31.I have lots of questions in my head and I still do not. There is still

:00:32. > :00:51.no clarity as to how safe we are. She helped raise ?2 million for the

:00:52. > :00:55.victims of the fire but Bush -- of the terror attack in Manchester but

:00:56. > :01:04.should she be made an honorary citizen of the city? Artists are

:01:05. > :01:07.being encouraged not to reveal who has inspired them for fear that they

:01:08. > :01:13.will be done with copyright infringement. This index grain to

:01:14. > :01:20.the picture so people are less certain about what they can and

:01:21. > :01:21.cannot do. We will talk to the lead singer of Star sailor about how this

:01:22. > :01:38.issue affects his work. John Walker, we heard from him in

:01:39. > :01:41.the last half hour, has won back his Supreme Court battle to secure his

:01:42. > :01:49.husband the same pension rights a wife would enjoy. The ex-cavalry

:01:50. > :01:53.officer, 65, has won back his 11 year long legal battle to secure his

:01:54. > :02:01.husband the same pension rights a wife would enjoy. We can talk to our

:02:02. > :02:07.legal correspondent at the Supreme Court. Incredible news for John

:02:08. > :02:13.Walker. Fill us in. Incredible news for John Walker and his spouse but

:02:14. > :02:19.also great news for spouses in same-sex marriages and civil

:02:20. > :02:25.partners because this was about... John Walker had an issue... He had

:02:26. > :02:35.worked for a company for 23 years, starting around 1980 and ending in

:02:36. > :02:37.2003, and at the time he saw... Civil partnerships were not lawful

:02:38. > :02:43.and neither were same-sex partnerships. Same-sex marriages

:02:44. > :02:49.became lawful in 2005 and shortly after he and his partner entered the

:02:50. > :02:54.civil partnership and are married. He wanted his partner to have the

:02:55. > :03:04.security of knowing that when Mr Walker died his spouse would be

:03:05. > :03:10.entitled to the full pension. They relied on an exemption that said the

:03:11. > :03:15.company could discount the years of service of paying into the pension

:03:16. > :03:21.that predated the coming into force of civil partnerships so anything

:03:22. > :03:24.before December 2005 needing ended effectively be discounted. That made

:03:25. > :03:30.a massive difference to his partner and would've meant that upon Mr

:03:31. > :03:39.Walker's death the pension his partner would of got would have been

:03:40. > :03:44.around ?1000 as opposed to ?46,000. A massive difference. The Supreme

:03:45. > :03:48.Court has ruled that that cuts out in the Equality Act, that exemption

:03:49. > :03:53.that allows those benefits that accrued before 2005 to be

:03:54. > :03:58.disregarded, that contravenes ideas in breach of EU law and that cutout,

:03:59. > :04:12.that exemption, as to be death applied. In all cases.

:04:13. > :04:20.That will allow his partner to get the full pension of ?46,000 per

:04:21. > :04:29.annum. This has huge implications because the judge is not limited to

:04:30. > :04:31.this case, this applies generally to same-sex marriages and civil

:04:32. > :04:39.partnerships across the board, and that is huge. Thank you. As soon as

:04:40. > :04:44.John Walker comes out of the building, we will hopefully talk to

:04:45. > :04:49.him live about this news which she has been fighting force for 11

:04:50. > :04:51.years, he has been -- he was telling us earlier.

:04:52. > :04:55.Here's Joanna Gosling in the BBC Newsroom

:04:56. > :04:59.Donald Trump Junior has said he didn't tell his father

:05:00. > :05:02.about a meeting he had with a Russian lawyer during last

:05:03. > :05:04.year's US election campaign because there was nothing to tell.

:05:05. > :05:07.Yesterday he released emails which showed he was keen to see

:05:08. > :05:08.what incriminating material the lawyer was prepared

:05:09. > :05:10.to offer on his father's rival, Hillary Clinton.

:05:11. > :05:12.Police investigating the Grenfell Tower fire say the task

:05:13. > :05:15.of identifying all the people who died in the tragedy could take

:05:16. > :05:18.many months but they are determined to "return those who died

:05:19. > :05:22.The head of the recovery team says it's the worst incident

:05:23. > :05:25.Today marks four weeks since the devastating fire,

:05:26. > :05:28.and tonight the community will come together for a vigil to honour those

:05:29. > :05:33.And the Victoria Derbyshire programme has found that fewer

:05:34. > :05:37.than half the local authorities with tower blocks wrapped in panels

:05:38. > :05:50.that have failed fire safety tests have started to remove the material.

:05:51. > :05:52.Following the Grenfell fire the government said it planned

:05:53. > :05:55.to carry out fire safety tests on 600 buildings across England.

:05:56. > :05:58.But despite every test on material taken from those buildings failing,

:05:59. > :06:00.so far only one in three housing associations and councils have

:06:01. > :06:03.Unemployment fell in the three months to May,

:06:04. > :06:09.The jobless rate has dropped to lows last seen in 1975 at 4.5%.

:06:10. > :06:12.But the data also show that pay is not keeping up with price rises,

:06:13. > :06:15.meaning households are feeling the strain of rising prices

:06:16. > :06:19.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:06:20. > :06:31.On the pension news we have just brought to you, the ruling from the

:06:32. > :06:35.Supreme Court, emails to say I have been accept that occupational

:06:36. > :06:39.pensions which will not give my survival is pension to my common-law

:06:40. > :06:44.partner who I have lived with for over eight years, unless I marry

:06:45. > :06:48.her. I do not want to be forced to marry. These pension trustees are a

:06:49. > :06:51.law to themselves to drive to cut costs. Just marry her! Life is

:06:52. > :06:58.short. Get in touch. It hasn't happened for 39 years

:06:59. > :07:04.but Johanna Konta has She's the latest British woman

:07:05. > :07:10.to reach the semi-finals of Wimbledon after a thrilling 2-1

:07:11. > :07:18.win on Centre Court last night. It's hard to think that

:07:19. > :07:21.Johanna Konta had only won one match Now, after a nerve shredding victory

:07:22. > :07:26.against Simona Halep, I've always believed in my own

:07:27. > :07:32.ability and I've always dreamt big. But I don't give myself

:07:33. > :07:39.too much time to dream As is often the British

:07:40. > :07:48.way on Centre Court, She lost the first set

:07:49. > :07:52.on a tie-break against the second seed, not playing badly,

:07:53. > :07:54.she just needed to find Relying on a powerful serve

:07:55. > :07:58.and a booming backhand seemed Konta credits much of her rise up

:07:59. > :08:04.the rankings to the work on the mental side of the game

:08:05. > :08:07.and under this pressure you could Outside they tried to make

:08:08. > :08:13.themselves heard through it. The first British woman

:08:14. > :08:23.into the semi final since Konta winning over new fans

:08:24. > :08:29.and a few older ones as well. Today all eyes will be on defending

:08:30. > :08:32.champ Andy Murray and his semi-final against American big-server Sam

:08:33. > :08:35.Querrey. In practise yesterday,

:08:36. > :08:37.he still looked like he was He's aiming for an eighth

:08:38. > :08:43.semi-final, and his match against the number 24 seed gets

:08:44. > :08:47.underway around 1pm. And Querrey has embraced

:08:48. > :08:58.his underdog billing. He is the defending champion, number

:08:59. > :09:02.one in the world, you just have to go out and play your best and hope

:09:03. > :09:05.things go your way. He is going to be the favourite no matter who he

:09:06. > :09:12.plays. I will have to play extremely well to get past him. I am going to

:09:13. > :09:14.play aggressive and hopefully get a lot of first serves and play finds

:09:15. > :09:19.of tennis when I can. So let's take a quick look

:09:20. > :09:22.at the rest of today's action. Once Andy Murray finishes up

:09:23. > :09:24.on Centre court Roger Federer steps And Novak Djokovic is also playing

:09:25. > :09:28.today taking on Tomas Berdych. The number two seed has spoken out

:09:29. > :09:40.about his unhappiness with The umpire at the end of the match

:09:41. > :09:44.asked me about the whole because midway through the match I mentioned

:09:45. > :09:51.there was the whole and he wanted me to show him so I showed him. His

:09:52. > :09:55.reaction was not that great. I guess grounds men and everyone is doing

:09:56. > :10:02.their best. I have no doubt that they are giving their best to have

:10:03. > :10:05.the court in the most playable condition possible at this moment

:10:06. > :10:08.but it is what it is. It's four weeks now since

:10:09. > :10:30.the devastating fire which destroyed Grenfell Tower in Kensington -

:10:31. > :10:32.and this programme has discovered that fewer than half the local

:10:33. > :10:35.authority areas with tower blocks wrapped in panels that have failed

:10:36. > :10:42.fire safety tests have started People were talking about the

:10:43. > :10:44.cladding on the outside of the building and people are thinking

:10:45. > :10:47.that might have contributed to this bead with which the fire spread and

:10:48. > :10:53.the government have said that there have been 600 tests on similar

:10:54. > :10:59.blocks around the country. 255 have come back as a feel on fire safety,

:11:00. > :11:08.that is every test so far. What are people doing? We spoke to councils

:11:09. > :11:12.and housing associations rather than councils in 36 areas affected. Of

:11:13. > :11:15.those, in 13 areas, one in three, they have started taking this

:11:16. > :11:23.material down and in another ten they are planning to do so. This is

:11:24. > :11:26.material we think is banned in other countries, the US, Germany, but it

:11:27. > :11:32.is still in many of these blocks in this country. Why are councils and

:11:33. > :11:38.council associations not acting more quickly? Just because they failed

:11:39. > :11:42.thus one fire safety test, that does not mince a thoroughly mean that the

:11:43. > :11:48.whole building is unsafe, that is the argument. This is one part of

:11:49. > :11:51.the wider system that involves insulation and everything else and

:11:52. > :11:54.they say if they start ripping off these panels on the outside that

:11:55. > :12:01.could make things even more dangerous. Could it expose material

:12:02. > :12:07.underneath? Someone flicks a cigarette out of the window it could

:12:08. > :12:11.cause problems. Fire safety experts think this material will have to

:12:12. > :12:15.come down in the long-term. One said it is like dressing in the flammable

:12:16. > :12:22.clothing and standing next to a naked flame. Eventually it will have

:12:23. > :12:26.to come down. There is this split between councils who have decided to

:12:27. > :12:30.actually do we and others saying it will take time and they have to

:12:31. > :12:37.think it through. What about other forms of fire protection?

:12:38. > :12:40.Sprinklers? Sprinklers is interesting. There is a split

:12:41. > :12:46.depending where you live. If you build a new tower block more than 30

:12:47. > :12:49.metres height you have to set sprinklers. If you refurbish a block

:12:50. > :12:55.you do not have to do it and that was the case with Grenfell Tower.

:12:56. > :13:00.Plenty of people thinking that is going to have to change. It was the

:13:01. > :13:04.recommendation in 2009 after a similar fire in south London but it

:13:05. > :13:09.has not happened everywhere. It depends where you live. In one

:13:10. > :13:14.council they say they are going to fit sprinklers in every block over

:13:15. > :13:20.ten stories, that is 100 blocks that area alone. You can see how much

:13:21. > :13:23.that might cost. Sheffield are fitting in 24 areas. Others saying

:13:24. > :13:31.they will not go down that route at the moment. One resident in

:13:32. > :13:33.Islington... Sorry, we are going to hear from John Walker outside the

:13:34. > :13:44.Supreme Court on the pension ruling. ... Just. My husband and I can get

:13:45. > :13:49.on with enjoying the rest of our lives together. It is to our

:13:50. > :13:54.government's great shame that it has taken so many years, huge amounts of

:13:55. > :13:59.taxpayers' money and the UK's highest court to drag them into the

:14:00. > :14:04.21st-century. In the years since we started this legal challenge, how

:14:05. > :14:09.many people have spent their final days uncertain about whether their

:14:10. > :14:12.loved one will be looked after? How many people have been left

:14:13. > :14:18.unprovided for having already suffered the loss of their partner?

:14:19. > :14:26.I would like Theresa May and her ministers today to make a formal

:14:27. > :14:34.commitment that this change will stay on the statute books. After

:14:35. > :14:40.Brexit. I would like to thank the people who have made this possible.

:14:41. > :14:47.As a grey-haired pensioner I wanted to take on a ?1 billion each year

:14:48. > :14:53.large super chemical company, not a chance in the world, but thanks to

:14:54. > :15:00.Liberty who are here to support little people like me, we went out

:15:01. > :15:04.and took them on. After round one a classic David and Goliath, Goliath

:15:05. > :15:08.decided he needed help so he brought in the Department for Work and

:15:09. > :15:14.Pensions, her majesties government, a big lot to take on, but thanks to

:15:15. > :15:19.these people we were able to do it. The liberty of the phone two

:15:20. > :15:22.amazingly talented incredibly hard-working very professional and

:15:23. > :15:31.beyond anything else really passionate barristers. One of them

:15:32. > :15:37.is here today, Max, Max and Martin. They have won this case today. It

:15:38. > :15:42.has taken 5.5 years to get here. A long journey. Those people have made

:15:43. > :15:51.it possible with liberty for a little person might need to take on

:15:52. > :15:55.the government. We can all do it. There is one other person out there,

:15:56. > :15:59.you know who you are, who made it possible for me to come to the

:16:00. > :16:02.Supreme Court. Many of my family have been incredibly supportive over

:16:03. > :16:06.the years and my husband who is not here today, he is with a family

:16:07. > :16:14.sadness but thank you, thank you very much. John Walker, amazing.

:16:15. > :16:17.Absolutely delighted he has been trying to get the same rights as

:16:18. > :16:24.heterosexual married couples and today he has done it, for him and

:16:25. > :16:30.his husband, this text from MDL, thank you, John Walker, fighting to

:16:31. > :16:33.make life better for all people. This text from Richard, I am a

:16:34. > :16:38.heterosexual married man, if gay people breathe the same air as me

:16:39. > :16:44.and pay the same taxes, they should have the same rights. Let's carry on

:16:45. > :16:48.our conversation, I beg you pardon, who will carry on with Jim just a

:16:49. > :16:56.second ballot IS go back to the Supreme Court because Clive is with

:16:57. > :17:00.John Walker. John, you have just broken about your long battle, have

:17:01. > :17:07.you had a chance to speak to your husband? I haven't. I hope I will in

:17:08. > :17:10.a minute, so very excited. Just explain why it was so important for

:17:11. > :17:14.you as a couple to have the security knowing that should you predeceased

:17:15. > :17:18.him he will have that full pension? I think it would be the same with

:17:19. > :17:21.any couple, whether it is heterosexual or same sex, somebody

:17:22. > :17:25.that you love, that person you want to make sure is looked after as long

:17:26. > :17:28.as they are alive. I am other than him, therefore statistically the

:17:29. > :17:32.chances are that I will buy before him. I wanted to ensure he was

:17:33. > :17:37.looked after. He should be and he will be. You must be absolutely

:17:38. > :17:42.thrilled, but you made a point just then that really it is EU law that

:17:43. > :17:46.has ridden to your rescue. Post Brexit, is there a real threat that

:17:47. > :17:52.perhaps the government could row back Mr session? Think there is, but

:17:53. > :17:57.the answer lies over there. Out of my depth, but I sincerely hope that

:17:58. > :18:00.Theresa May will do the right thing, something that should have been done

:18:01. > :18:03.a long time ago, and get this thing sorted out once and for all. There

:18:04. > :18:07.are people who are dying, people who have died who are not going to

:18:08. > :18:10.benefit from this. Actually I think the decent thing would be for those

:18:11. > :18:14.companies to now get into gear and look after the people that have

:18:15. > :18:18.gone. John, thank you very much indeed. An absolutely delighted John

:18:19. > :18:21.Walker but there is perhaps just a hint of a threat on the horizon as a

:18:22. > :18:27.result of Brexit, that this ruling today could be rowed back on.

:18:28. > :18:31.Something of an issue of concern for John and others in his position, but

:18:32. > :18:37.today a day of delight for him. Thank you very much Clive and John

:18:38. > :18:43.Walker. Let's carry on our, session with Jim, who has been looking at

:18:44. > :18:45.the fact that fewer than half of local authorities and housing

:18:46. > :18:50.associations that have got this cladding on that have failed fire

:18:51. > :18:53.safety tests have managed to remove the panel so far. You have been

:18:54. > :18:57.talking to residents in one particular tower block in north

:18:58. > :19:01.London. Yes, a resident in Islington. In her block, they have

:19:02. > :19:06.started to remove the cladding, big trucks are out there doing it. Two

:19:07. > :19:09.weeks ago, this president had a second daughter, so had a tiny

:19:10. > :19:11.little baby in the flat. We went round there to ask how safe she now

:19:12. > :19:14.feels in her own home. It does reassure me

:19:15. > :19:16.to a certain extent. They've put fire wardens

:19:17. > :19:22.in as well 24 hours. After the Grenfell Tower,

:19:23. > :19:24.I did not feel safe. I had lots of questions

:19:25. > :19:27.inside my head and I still don't. Because to me, there's still no

:19:28. > :19:41.clarity as to how safe we are. Considering that we only

:19:42. > :19:43.have one fire escape at the end of the corridor,

:19:44. > :19:45.so I'm at the opposite Having that secondary staircase,

:19:46. > :19:51.in case the corridor is blocked one way, would actually help those

:19:52. > :19:54.residents who live If everybody were to leave

:19:55. > :20:10.at the same time, it wouldn't work, us leaving and the fire brigade

:20:11. > :20:13.trying to make their way up, They would have to jump

:20:14. > :20:20.from the window and the third floor is the lowest floor,

:20:21. > :20:24.which is from here, What about the other issues around

:20:25. > :20:37.the sprinklers in particular? Would you feel more secure

:20:38. > :20:39.if sprinklers were fitted? It was a recommendation

:20:40. > :20:42.after the Lakanal House fire. What comes to me is that lady,

:20:43. > :20:49.for example, at the Grenfell Tower who flooded her flat and that's

:20:50. > :20:53.what saved her life. In such a tall building

:20:54. > :21:00.where the fire brigade do not have the equipment to go

:21:01. > :21:02.above the 12th floor, if I'm not mistaken,

:21:03. > :21:06.having sprinklers installed And it was here,

:21:07. > :21:11.it was a gas cooker. And it just caught fire

:21:12. > :21:13.and it burned everything My husband was very good,

:21:14. > :21:18.because it was a gas cooker, He burned his hands,

:21:19. > :21:24.burned his eyes, but he was able to contain the fire

:21:25. > :21:31.until the fire brigade came. That was scary enough,

:21:32. > :21:35.scary enough for my own daughter who had to call the fire brigade,

:21:36. > :21:38.who was shouting because her daddy was still in here and he got her

:21:39. > :21:41.to get out. And scary enough for me to be extra

:21:42. > :21:44.careful with everything. How much has having a new baby

:21:45. > :22:04.changed things in your head? I was thinking, so,

:22:05. > :22:07.having two children, having a 14-year-old

:22:08. > :22:13.and a two-week-old, I was on the internet

:22:14. > :22:15.and I was looking for fire I have fire extinguishers,

:22:16. > :22:18.but you know, gas masks. It's just made me much more scared,

:22:19. > :22:21.having such a little one, so vulnerable, it just scares

:22:22. > :22:30.the living daylights out of me. This is where we live,

:22:31. > :22:42.but try and make it safer by installing all these things that

:22:43. > :22:44.were recommended after I believe they'll be recommended

:22:45. > :22:49.again after the Grenfell Tower fire, once they've finished

:22:50. > :22:51.with their inquest. It's been recommended

:22:52. > :23:06.already, in 2009. Let's talk to the chair of a group

:23:07. > :23:13.of MPs that campaigns for fire safety. Conservative MP Sir David

:23:14. > :23:16.and Steve Kofi, Chief Executive Liverpool mutual homes, one of the

:23:17. > :23:21.landlords that has removed cladding from its property, and Ronnie King,

:23:22. > :23:25.former chief fire officer and Henri Secretary of the group of

:23:26. > :23:28.politicians who look at fire safety, he is neutral, impartial and

:23:29. > :23:34.independent. David Amis, why has it taken so long for local authorities

:23:35. > :23:38.and housing associations to remove the cladding that has failed fire

:23:39. > :23:43.safety tests? I have absolutely no idea. I think you did hear from

:23:44. > :23:47.someone earlier in the programme, suggesting that it is a complicated

:23:48. > :23:52.procedure, but as far as I am concerned, it is up to each local

:23:53. > :23:56.authority, housing association to act as quickly as they possibly can.

:23:57. > :24:02.Might I also say if local residents are concerned about non-action on

:24:03. > :24:05.this matter they should contact their own local MP as soon as

:24:06. > :24:12.possible. And what difference will that make? A great deal of

:24:13. > :24:16.difference. Most MPs come in to make a difference to people's lives, and

:24:17. > :24:20.I have no doubt that members of Parliament, if they are contacted by

:24:21. > :24:24.local residents, they will get onto the Minister and complain about the

:24:25. > :24:27.situation. Phone calls will be made and then I think there will be some

:24:28. > :24:32.pretty swift action but there may be different reasons for the delays,

:24:33. > :24:34.depending on the situation in various local authorities but

:24:35. > :24:37.Southend council has taken immediate local action on this matter and I am

:24:38. > :24:44.reassured by what they have done already. Steve Croft, since

:24:45. > :24:49.Grenfell, what work have you done on Europe properties? Thanks, Victoria.

:24:50. > :24:55.It is for weeks now, I am sitting 200 miles away but everything is

:24:56. > :24:59.vivid to everybody, and for housing associations, the first and foremost

:25:00. > :25:04.priority is the safety and security of their tenants. So when this test

:25:05. > :25:09.failed or we got notification that it had failed, we immediately took

:25:10. > :25:14.steps to put interim measures in place and begin removing the

:25:15. > :25:19.cladding. However, there is a total lack of clarity around the tests

:25:20. > :25:24.themselves. This particular block we have had sprinklers, has individual

:25:25. > :25:27.heat and smoke sensors in properties, has automatic door

:25:28. > :25:31.closes, has no gas in the flats, has all the safety measures you would

:25:32. > :25:40.think and is probably one of the safest places in the UK. However, it

:25:41. > :25:48.does have cladding with a retard and mineral core. It has failed the

:25:49. > :25:54.government's test, but it has passed a new test, so we need some real

:25:55. > :26:00.clarity on where we are with things. Said David Amess, that is a fair

:26:01. > :26:03.point, people like landlords like Steve Coffey did not know what tests

:26:04. > :26:08.were carried out on some of the properties that they own. This is a

:26:09. > :26:14.real issue and why our committee has been asking for 11 years for the

:26:15. > :26:17.building safety regulations... It is not about building regulations, it

:26:18. > :26:20.is about the specific tests that have been carried out since

:26:21. > :26:27.Grenfell. Someone in your government must know the details, the specifics

:26:28. > :26:32.of those tests? I am speaking in the debate in Parliament today, and I

:26:33. > :26:37.shall raise that very issue with the appropriate minister. Who is that,

:26:38. > :26:42.do you think they will now? Alec Sharma is the minister I think who

:26:43. > :26:47.will be responding to the debate. He has already meant -- Halep Sharma. I

:26:48. > :26:52.will ask him further details of why they does not seem to be clarity

:26:53. > :27:03.about the testing of the cladding. The Housing minister.

:27:04. > :27:16.The National fire chief counsel have undertaken to years of research into

:27:17. > :27:21.real-life fires that have occurred. The findings are pretty conclusive

:27:22. > :27:26.that in 100% of occasions in fires and flats, sprinklers have actually

:27:27. > :27:33.controlled or extinguished fires on every occasion. I think that's

:27:34. > :27:38.phenomenal, that really vindicates why automatic fire sprinklers should

:27:39. > :27:43.be used. And indeed that was the recommendation from the coroner

:27:44. > :27:47.after the Lakanal fire in south London in 2009. The coroner asked

:27:48. > :27:51.the Secretary of State to encourage those providers of social housing to

:27:52. > :27:57.consider installing automatic sprinkler protection. What the

:27:58. > :28:03.Secretary of State did was referred to a letter he had sent to the

:28:04. > :28:09.coroner at Southampton, by saying it is over to you. He didn't encourage,

:28:10. > :28:11.he said it is over to you to determine the appropriateness of

:28:12. > :28:15.automatic fire sprinklers. In other words, this is what the coroner is

:28:16. > :28:21.saying. He didn't encourage it for his said it is your decision. Thank

:28:22. > :28:25.you very much, gentlemen. Ronnie King, said David Amess, and a liver

:28:26. > :28:28.for Steve Coffey. We will watch the debate intensely in the Commons this

:28:29. > :28:34.afternoon. Still to come: We hear

:28:35. > :28:37.from the charity campaigning to have all prostitution related

:28:38. > :28:39.offences scrapped from sex It looks like Ariana Grande

:28:40. > :28:42.is to become an honorary citizen of Manchester after organising

:28:43. > :28:45.a concert to raise funds for victims Councillors are meeting right now,

:28:46. > :28:48.where they're expected 22 people died when suicide bomber

:28:49. > :28:57.Salman Abedi detonated a device at the end of Ariana Grande's

:28:58. > :29:00.concert on the 22nd May. Last month, Grande organised

:29:01. > :29:02.this concert for the # You are, you are,

:29:03. > :29:16.you are my everything... What better way to fight evil

:29:17. > :29:21.with evil than to fight evil # All the times that

:29:22. > :29:35.you rained on my parade # All the clubs that

:29:36. > :29:39.you get in using my name... Let's just do this

:29:40. > :29:41.little exercise in love. Tell them, I love you,

:29:42. > :29:52.look in their eyes. In an exclusive interview last week

:29:53. > :30:52.we spoke to Andrew Roussos, the father of eight-year-old

:30:53. > :30:54.Saffie Roussos, the youngest victim He told us what a hero

:30:55. > :30:59.he thought Arianne Grande was. The biggest part of why

:31:00. > :31:15.I wanted to meet her is to tell her what she

:31:16. > :31:20.meant to Saffie and, I wanted to tell her that I don't

:31:21. > :31:24.want her to blame herself, because she was very,

:31:25. > :31:28.you know, distressed at the time and blamed herself and a lot of

:31:29. > :31:31.different people said rotten things And, you know, beautiful,

:31:32. > :31:45.stunning young lady herself and when I met up with her, all she could say

:31:46. > :31:49.to me was, I'm sorry, and I said, You know, you made Saffie and all

:31:50. > :31:53.the children round the world so happy with what you do

:31:54. > :31:56.and you've done nothing wrong. And how did she respond

:31:57. > :32:00.to what you said to her? She appreciated me telling her

:32:01. > :32:08.that because obviously again, as a young lady, she must

:32:09. > :32:13.feel bad, you know, on what happened and everything else and I just

:32:14. > :32:16.wanted to tell her from me that I thanked her for making my daughter

:32:17. > :32:27.adore her and aspire to her. And I said to her,

:32:28. > :32:29.you know, many things It could have happened halfway

:32:30. > :32:38.through the concert, at And she got to see her,

:32:39. > :32:43.right to the end, and she's been looking so forward to it that I'm

:32:44. > :32:49.grateful that she got We can talk to Ann Marie

:32:50. > :33:06.McNally in Prestatyn who was at the concert

:33:07. > :33:08.with her daughter Lauren. She says her daughter is traumatised

:33:09. > :33:13.and rather than giving an honour to Arianne Grande perhaps

:33:14. > :33:15.the council should be recognising the work

:33:16. > :33:27.of emergency services. You're one of many people who are

:33:28. > :33:32.saying that council should officially... Clearly they have

:33:33. > :33:35.thank them a number of times, I have heard that, but he think of visual

:33:36. > :33:41.recognition is what they should be prioritising. Yes. There was a lot

:33:42. > :33:46.of people on that evening that ran in to help, taxi drivers, the

:33:47. > :33:52.homeless gentleman, I cannot remember his name, and his friend.

:33:53. > :33:57.These people were there on the ground trying to save people, trying

:33:58. > :34:02.to help people as much as possible, helping children to get home to

:34:03. > :34:08.parents, contacting. And the emergency services of course. They

:34:09. > :34:13.are human beings like ours. Yes, they are trained and skilled that

:34:14. > :34:21.they had a lot to be dealing with. Some would say that is their job.

:34:22. > :34:25.Well, we all have jobs, but we all went to that concert that night and

:34:26. > :34:32.never expected to come out and see what we saw and experience what we

:34:33. > :34:37.did. From my point of view, whether they are skilled and whether it is

:34:38. > :34:40.the job, they still dealt with it and dealt with that very

:34:41. > :34:48.professionally and I am sure they have come away from the situation as

:34:49. > :34:51.traumatised as the ones in there. Adam Harrison was also at the

:34:52. > :34:59.concert with his eight-year-old daughter Lily who was injured. Good

:35:00. > :35:11.morning. I know that you and Lily met Arianna Grande at the hospital

:35:12. > :35:15.where my she was being treated. You think it is right that the council

:35:16. > :35:21.are looking to make Arianne Grande an honorary citizen of Manchester.

:35:22. > :35:25.Yes, absolutely. You hear stories about meeting celebrities and you

:35:26. > :35:29.think it might be rehearsed but the amount of time she spent with us and

:35:30. > :35:36.everybody on the ward at the Children's Hospital... She made sure

:35:37. > :35:40.everybody was feeling well. My daughter was not sure if she wanted

:35:41. > :35:46.to go to the concept but within seconds of meeting her she was

:35:47. > :35:52.certain she wanted to go. Manchester is the proud city. To give her that

:35:53. > :35:56.confidence she is deserving of what is being discussed. You got a little

:35:57. > :36:01.bit of what Anne-Marie was saying. She thinks the council should be

:36:02. > :36:08.prioritising official recognition of the emergency services. Yeah,

:36:09. > :36:16.absolutely. That is their job, but there was no fallback for them not

:36:17. > :36:21.performing. I am having a lazy 20 minutes to speak to you but they

:36:22. > :36:24.cannot afford such a lapse in concentration. They had to be on

:36:25. > :36:34.form for the evening and the days following. The enthusiasm, keeping

:36:35. > :36:39.spirits high, these guys had given up their days off to come in and

:36:40. > :36:43.help us. I cannot speak highly enough of them. I will not have a

:36:44. > :36:51.bad word said about any of them. That is the point. Honorary citizen

:36:52. > :36:55.ship is being considered by councillors in Manchester, that does

:36:56. > :36:58.not mean something recognising the emergency services is not an option

:36:59. > :37:06.further down the line. No. Of course not. But I think they're definitely

:37:07. > :37:10.should be an acknowledgement to the emergency services and the taxi

:37:11. > :37:17.drivers and the other individuals who were around and about such as

:37:18. > :37:21.the guy who was homeless who helped, did everything they possibly could

:37:22. > :37:28.to try to help save lives and help in any way they could. Lily

:37:29. > :37:33.fractured her collar bone in the bombing and her mum Lauren was hit

:37:34. > :37:39.by shrapnel in the leg. How are they doing? They are both doing well.

:37:40. > :37:45.Lily is more physically able than me and Lauren. I have the ruptured

:37:46. > :37:50.ankle and Lauren has a flesh wound on her thigh so we are wobbling

:37:51. > :37:54.around and Lily fractured her collar bone and shrapnel went through her

:37:55. > :38:00.back and missed her spine and major organs and she is running around and

:38:01. > :38:12.giving us a heart attack. She is doing really well. How is Lauren?

:38:13. > :38:17.Lucy, I so sorry. She is OK. In an indirectly it has affected as

:38:18. > :38:32.psychologically. She has had to have some counselling but as days goes by

:38:33. > :38:34.it gets better. Thank you. Adam Harrison talking about his daughter

:38:35. > :38:42.Lily and Anne-Marie talking about her daughter Lucy.

:38:43. > :38:44.This programme has learnt that recording artists are being told not

:38:45. > :38:47.to say which pop stars have influenced any of their music

:38:48. > :38:50.in case they end up being sued for copyright infringement.

:38:51. > :38:51.It follows the high-profile copyright infringement case

:38:52. > :38:54.in which US jurors ruled that Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams,

:38:55. > :38:58.on their song Blurred Lines, had copied Marvin Gaye's Got To Give It

:38:59. > :39:02.Tht case is going to appeal over the next few months.

:39:03. > :39:04.We bought you our reporter Chi Chi Izundu's full report earlier.

:39:05. > :39:08.MUSIC: Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke ft TI, Pharrell

:39:09. > :39:15.Blurred Lines was globally the biggest track of 2013,

:39:16. > :39:22.raking in more than ?12 million in profits from sales alone.

:39:23. > :39:25.But in 2015, a court in the States ruled that Pharrell Williams

:39:26. > :39:28.and Robin Thicke had infringed the copyright

:39:29. > :39:31.of Marvin Gaye's Got To Give It Up and awarded his estate just over

:39:32. > :39:39.Marvin Gaye was cited as being the inspiration for Blurred Lines

:39:40. > :39:41.and Pharrell Williams even stated that he wanted to channel

:39:42. > :39:49.In the Blurred Lines case, Robin Thicke's interviews went

:39:50. > :39:51.well beyond saying that he was simply inspired

:39:52. > :39:59.What he said in his interviews was that he and Pharrell, or he

:40:00. > :40:01.directed Pharrell, to create a song

:40:02. > :40:06.just like Got To Give It Up, and that they tried to get the same

:40:07. > :40:09.rhythm and those types of things going in creating Blurred Lines.

:40:10. > :40:10.So it's much more than just inspiration.

:40:11. > :40:13.What you try and do with copyright is to work

:40:14. > :40:18.Musicologists like Peter Oxendale say the decision regardless is

:40:19. > :40:21.having huge implications on the industry.

:40:22. > :40:24.All of these companies are worried that if a track is

:40:25. > :40:28.referenced on another at all, a claim may be brought.

:40:29. > :40:31.So do you know of labels telling artists not to publicly

:40:32. > :40:42.Many of the companies I work with with ask the

:40:43. > :40:46.producers and the artists to declare all of the tracks that may have been

:40:47. > :40:49.used as inspiration for their new tracks.

:40:50. > :40:52.They send them to me well in advance of release, probably six

:40:53. > :41:00.Those are the behind the scenes arguments

:41:01. > :41:03.but what about an artist who writes, composers, produces

:41:04. > :41:07.We all listen to stuff and we all get ideas

:41:08. > :41:14.The trick of it, I think, is trying to turn those ideas into

:41:15. > :41:17.something new, rather than just repeat them or copy them.

:41:18. > :41:20.You only learn that by listening to it.

:41:21. > :41:23.So you are influenced simply by listening to music.

:41:24. > :41:26.Even if you don't like the music, it's going to

:41:27. > :41:34.In just over two months, Pharrell Williams,

:41:35. > :41:38.Robin Thicke and the Marvin Gaye estate will be back in court in the

:41:39. > :41:44.If Pharrell wins, it could mean a brand-new trial and the music

:41:45. > :41:48.industry has to go through this whole thing again.

:41:49. > :41:51.Whatever the verdict, it does seem that the

:41:52. > :41:54.industry will be extremely wary about copyright, as well as

:41:55. > :42:09.creativity, when it comes to releasing new music.

:42:10. > :42:12.Chi Chi Izundu, who was reporting, is here to tell us a bit more.

:42:13. > :42:14.So basically everyone's trying to avoid a copyright

:42:15. > :42:21.The word copyright and courts does not even come into it. They go into

:42:22. > :42:25.negotiations for about a year before court is even suggested. They are so

:42:26. > :42:28.desperate not to get there. Yes, it takes a lot of behind

:42:29. > :42:31.the scenes arguing and negotiating before even the word

:42:32. > :42:33.court is uttered. In 2014 - Sam Smith had a big

:42:34. > :42:37.hit with Stay With Me. Peaked at Number one

:42:38. > :42:39.in the Official Chart, sold more than four million copies,

:42:40. > :42:42.and won record of the But fans and lawyers for Tom Petty -

:42:43. > :42:47.who headlined the British Summer Time Festival in Hyde Park last

:42:48. > :42:51.weekend - noticed similarities between Sam's song and

:42:52. > :42:58.Tom's I Won't Back Down - That was Tom Petty's I won't

:42:59. > :43:27.Back Down, and here's # Stay with me.

:43:28. > :43:46.# This ain't love it clear to the. # Stay With Me now has Sam,

:43:47. > :43:49.his writing partner Jimmy Napes, Tom Petty and his writing partner

:43:50. > :43:54.Jeff Lynne as chief songwriters. In a statement on Tom's website

:43:55. > :43:58.he said no hard feelings towards Sam but "All my years of songwriting

:43:59. > :44:01.have shown me these Most times you catch it before it

:44:02. > :44:05.gets out the studio door Here's another huge track that

:44:06. > :44:16.quietly added songwriters to its credits within weeks

:44:17. > :44:33.of the Blurred Lines judgment. MUSIC: "Uptown Funk"

:44:34. > :44:38.by Bruno Mars and Mark Ronson. Uptown Funk, by Bruno Mars

:44:39. > :44:41.and Mark Ronson, topped the US Billboard chart for 14 weeks,

:44:42. > :44:46.originally had six songwriters. In April 2015, it picked up

:44:47. > :45:15.another five from 1970s They had some names. Money is going

:45:16. > :45:20.to change hands presumably. Exactly. They cut new deals to get new

:45:21. > :45:22.royalties and the distribution is made that way. And they stay out of

:45:23. > :45:24.court. We can speak now to Helienne

:45:25. > :45:27.Lindvall, songwriter and director of the British Academy

:45:28. > :45:33.of Songwriters, Composers And James Walsh, lead singer

:45:34. > :45:41.of the band Starsailor, which has sold more

:45:42. > :45:50.than three million albums. OK, are you afraid, James, to say

:45:51. > :45:59.who your inspirations are now, publicly? Not particularly, well, to

:46:00. > :46:05.be perfectly honest I think as long as you haven't thought of ripped

:46:06. > :46:12.someone off, as Gary Numan said in the VAT you just played, everyone is

:46:13. > :46:19.influenced by someone, is inspired by someone, and I think, like I say,

:46:20. > :46:25.as long as your track isn't like that, then it is quite acceptable to

:46:26. > :46:30.say yes, I listen to a lot of Ryan Adams, while listening to the --

:46:31. > :46:39.making the album, I listen to Spiritualised. Have to be aware.

:46:40. > :46:45.Ryan Adams will come out! Correct. The industry is nervous, is that

:46:46. > :46:50.fair? Well, I think probably what James is saying for Starsailor is a

:46:51. > :46:57.bit different than for some pop acts. When you are a songwriter for

:46:58. > :47:00.hire basically, usually when you work with an artist or a label or

:47:01. > :47:06.sometimes even when they send out lists of what they are looking for,

:47:07. > :47:09.they can only reference it according to what they already know, so you

:47:10. > :47:15.will get a reference saying we are looking for something that sounds

:47:16. > :47:19.may be like a mix of can't stop the feeling with Justin Timberlake meets

:47:20. > :47:25.either now Justin Bieber or something like that. Now, obviously,

:47:26. > :47:33.you don't want to send e-mails like that out because that might be

:47:34. > :47:37.brought up in court later. But I wanted to just address the different

:47:38. > :47:46.examples, because I do feel like the difference it is with headlines, it

:47:47. > :47:52.is not melodically or lyrically the same as the Marvin Gaye track. In my

:47:53. > :47:58.view and in the view of many other musicians, we're talking about

:47:59. > :48:03.production, arrangement. Even George Clinton, one of the most sampled

:48:04. > :48:10.artists in the world, who has influenced loads of people,

:48:11. > :48:17.including Bruno Mars, I'm sure, and Mark Ronson, he even said about the

:48:18. > :48:22.case that he couldn't see it, because he said you can't copyright

:48:23. > :48:26.a vibe. Well, in their depositions, they were talking about it is just

:48:27. > :48:33.the feeling, the vibe and that was enough of the US jurors. Yes, I

:48:34. > :48:37.think it is sad this case has come around, particularly when Motown,

:48:38. > :48:41.which Marvin Gaye came up through, all those artists shared a lot of

:48:42. > :48:47.influences and sounds, and the feel and the vibe of the songs. They are

:48:48. > :48:53.still amazing songs, they can still coexist together, but now all of a

:48:54. > :48:57.sudden this litigious nature that everyone is kind of suing each

:48:58. > :49:03.other, and it is a bit of a shame really. You are right, you say it is

:49:04. > :49:12.the arrangement, the production and so on, but Chi gave the example

:49:13. > :49:15.where it was quite similar so the new lot have added the old lot of

:49:16. > :49:20.songwriters onto the credit because they went yes, hands up, you got me

:49:21. > :49:24.there. With the Sam Smith case for example, he might have said he had

:49:25. > :49:27.never heard that song with Tom Petty, and in all honesty, I

:49:28. > :49:33.wouldn't be surprised if that is true. It is not the most original

:49:34. > :49:38.kind of... You know, there is only a limited amount of notes on the

:49:39. > :49:44.scale, and there are only some notes that work together more pleasantly

:49:45. > :49:52.than others. But, even so, actually I think somewhere along the line it

:49:53. > :49:55.would have been easier for somebody who heard the song, summary of the

:49:56. > :50:02.publishing company, producer, saying it was similar. As far as I know,

:50:03. > :50:07.there already is a rule in place where if a melody shares more than a

:50:08. > :50:17.certain number of notes... That is actually not correct. Is it not?!

:50:18. > :50:24.Urban myth. There is not a set number of notes, no formula. But

:50:25. > :50:29.that was settled amicably, and I think the issue now is, and

:50:30. > :50:33.obviously the Bruno Mars, the first on her that song like code here

:50:34. > :50:37.because I know the gap band and I thought wow, that is really, really

:50:38. > :50:46.similar. Now the issue is if you realise that you have something very

:50:47. > :50:51.similar or involuntarily you copy something, it could happen very

:50:52. > :50:57.easily. Then change it. You can either change it or you reach out to

:50:58. > :51:04.that songwriter and say we have got this in our song, can we arrange a

:51:05. > :51:08.split? But what happens if you do it after it has been released? Then the

:51:09. > :51:11.people who come and sue you, they can, as in the Marvin Gaye case,

:51:12. > :51:16.they can just go and claim as much as they want because the song is

:51:17. > :51:20.already out. Do you think the blurred lines case closed before it

:51:21. > :51:25.would happen frequently with melodies and lyrics but with the

:51:26. > :51:31.blurred lines case are we going to get travellers and drum tracks

:51:32. > :51:35.saying, the feel of this song... We will see what happens, because they

:51:36. > :51:36.are appealing against it in October. Thank you both for coming on the

:51:37. > :51:38.programme. A campaign is being launched

:51:39. > :51:40.to scrap all prostitution related offences from sex

:51:41. > :51:43.workers criminal records. NIA, a charity which

:51:44. > :51:44.aims to end violence and discrimination against women,

:51:45. > :51:47.says sex workers struggle to move on and get a new job

:51:48. > :51:49.because of their criminal record and the stigma associated

:51:50. > :51:51.with being a prostitute. One woman describes how her child's

:51:52. > :51:54.school refused to allow her to enter the playground

:51:55. > :52:02.because she was a "sex offender". We can speak now to Fiona Broadfoot,

:52:03. > :52:05.who's a former prostitute who says that criminal records

:52:06. > :52:07.hold her and women like her back, when they try and return

:52:08. > :52:09.to conventional employment. And to Heather Harvey

:52:10. > :52:24.from the charity NIA which has Hello, those of you. Hello. Fiona,

:52:25. > :52:31.tell us a little bit about what you want to do now and why previous

:52:32. > :52:34.convictions are holding you back? I was groomed and trafficked into

:52:35. > :52:42.prostitution at the tender age of 15. I was at risk of extreme sexual

:52:43. > :52:45.violence and abuse. None of the perpetrators whoever bought or sold

:52:46. > :52:54.me ever face any criminal convictions. I have a catalogue of

:52:55. > :53:01.convictions. Is with the holistic them here? It is an eight page

:53:02. > :53:06.double sided document. And it shows I have been convicted from one end

:53:07. > :53:16.of the country to the other. I have been given fines, Exeter Exeter.

:53:17. > :53:23.Dekhar conviction 1986, prostitute loitering ventilator six. I was 18

:53:24. > :53:28.years old firm. Prostitute loitering, and so it goes on. OK, so

:53:29. > :53:33.why should your convictions be wiped? What is different about

:53:34. > :53:37.prostitution, why not cannabis possession of a teenager, why should

:53:38. > :53:42.that not be wiped? Why isn't the same argument? I did not choose to

:53:43. > :53:47.be involved in prostitution, I was forced. I wasn't willingly stood out

:53:48. > :53:51.on the streets, I wasn't a criminal. That is a catalogue of my abuse

:53:52. > :53:58.actually. So I don't believe I should never have been criminalised.

:53:59. > :54:00.And actually, if now I were experiencing grooming and

:54:01. > :54:05.trafficking, I would have been treated as a victim of abuse, not as

:54:06. > :54:10.a perpetrator of a crime. Is that the same for all prostitutes,

:54:11. > :54:15.though? Because I have interviewed some who voluntarily choose to go

:54:16. > :54:21.out on the streets. To be quite honest, that isn't what I am here to

:54:22. > :54:26.debate. I believe that prostitution is a form of abuse. I have met a

:54:27. > :54:34.handful of women and have made a choice, in my experience the vast

:54:35. > :54:43.majority, even after exiting, they are still mentally ill, addicted to

:54:44. > :54:50.substances and the medication, physical health problems. Let me

:54:51. > :54:55.bring Heather in on this point. Understood. Why is this something

:54:56. > :54:59.the government should consider? I think the thing we are saying about

:55:00. > :55:02.prostitution specific offences is that prostitution is a whole other

:55:03. > :55:09.layer of stigma and discrimination attached to it and it is very

:55:10. > :55:12.gendered. So the disclosure, the principle is you are trying to

:55:13. > :55:16.prevent future harm. The women we are working with whenever the risk

:55:17. > :55:22.of harm to anybody asked, they were in most cases themselves victims.

:55:23. > :55:25.And the disclosure and barring service should be proportionate. The

:55:26. > :55:29.kind of things we see in the report that we discuss, we see women who

:55:30. > :55:31.are evicted from their housing, we see women who lose their

:55:32. > :55:36.relationships with their children and with their families when these

:55:37. > :55:40.things become disclosed. We see women who won't even apply for a job

:55:41. > :55:43.because they don't want to sit and have a two-hour discussion with

:55:44. > :55:45.senior male managers about a catalogue of abuse, which is what

:55:46. > :55:52.that is. So they won't even apply for a job. If you do apply, many

:55:53. > :55:57.times you are just turned away because you are perceived as having

:55:58. > :56:03.been a sex offender. But even if you got a chance, you have to have a

:56:04. > :56:10.discussion about two, three, five, ten years worth of prostitution,

:56:11. > :56:16.which is layered with that stigma. People who are involved in selling

:56:17. > :56:20.or been sold for sex should not become an ice and the first place

:56:21. > :56:23.but they should give to have their prostitution records wiped and not

:56:24. > :56:32.disclosed because it is disproportionate and has such

:56:33. > :56:36.far-reaching effects. You can see others with convictions in the past

:56:37. > :56:38.saying I want my drug dealing conviction being wiped, that is

:56:39. > :56:45.stopping me from starting afresh on getting a new job. There is a

:56:46. > :56:51.broader campaign around, no records but this is gender discriminatory,

:56:52. > :56:57.predominantly, so what would be arguing for that is we need to talk

:56:58. > :57:00.about, when somebody says prostitution, it goes into sex,

:57:01. > :57:06.sexual harassment, abuse, that is very different. We are talking about

:57:07. > :57:12.the most cases never wanted to be involved in it. Some of the women,

:57:13. > :57:16.like Fiona were saying, if you start at the age of 15, that is not

:57:17. > :57:19.prostitution, that is child abuse, grooming, that is the stuff we are

:57:20. > :57:23.making a big fuss about right now about rather than all of those

:57:24. > :57:26.areas. They should be treated as victims but they are treated as

:57:27. > :57:30.perpetrators, and it hampers you for your whole life, not just jobs but

:57:31. > :57:36.also your social interaction. Thank you both.

:57:37. > :57:41.Plymouth press I'm sure is good to ask you Fiona, before we pause, we

:57:42. > :57:44.haven't got much time, what jobs have you been blocked from getting

:57:45. > :57:50.because this has come up when they have chopped your -- checked your

:57:51. > :57:56.background? From applying to university places. Really? You mean

:57:57. > :58:01.a job or going on in university course? If you do a university

:58:02. > :58:05.degree in social work for example, you have to have a practical

:58:06. > :58:10.placement that goes alongside that. That would be the barrier. OK, I

:58:11. > :58:11.have to stop you there, but thank you very much.

:58:12. > :58:13.On the programme tomorrow - we'll bring you the latest

:58:14. > :58:25.on the Charlie Gard case, as his parents go to court again

:58:26. > :58:27.Thank you very much for your company today. Have a good day.