19/07/2017

:00:00. > :00:11.Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:00:12. > :00:19.This morning we're in North Kensington,

:00:20. > :00:22.five weeks since a huge fire engufled the Grenfell Tower block -

:00:23. > :00:25.claiming the lives of at least 80 people and destroying the lives

:00:26. > :00:41.We saw a lot with our own eyes. We saw friends, families...

:00:42. > :00:48.The people in my building were really close to me and they were

:00:49. > :01:04.like family. Seeing them go wasn't good. You're so brave. I feel like

:01:05. > :01:08.when you have to switch the TV on so you can have light when you're

:01:09. > :01:10.sleeping so you don't have to think about a little boy that died in your

:01:11. > :01:13.room. This programme has now discovered

:01:14. > :01:15.that burning cladding on Grenfell Tower would have

:01:16. > :01:18.released 14 times more heat than a key government

:01:19. > :01:20.safety test allows - Kensington and Chelsea

:01:21. > :01:25.council are meeting for the first time tonight

:01:26. > :01:31.where the new council leader will officially take up her post,

:01:32. > :01:35.but with many residents having lost faith in the council there are some

:01:36. > :01:47.calls for a snap election. Nothing can improve for us. It is

:01:48. > :01:52.getting worse and worse every day. It's worse because by now I should

:01:53. > :01:56.have received counselling. I haven't. I haven't.

:01:57. > :02:00.This morning we'll hear more from survivors

:02:01. > :02:16.of the tower who have never told their story publicly before.

:02:17. > :02:27.This morning we're in North Kensington,

:02:28. > :02:33.We will talk to survivors and members of the council. There are

:02:34. > :02:35.worries that the council meeting will not go ahead because there are

:02:36. > :02:42.planned protests. This programme has now discovered

:02:43. > :02:45.that burning cladding on Grenfell Tower would have

:02:46. > :02:54.released 14 times more heat The BBC has learned that the type

:02:55. > :02:57.of cladding used on Grenfell Tower would have released 14 times

:02:58. > :03:00.the amount of heat that is allowed under a key government

:03:01. > :03:02.safety tests when burned. Research conducted by the University

:03:03. > :03:04.of Leeds suggests the energy emitted from the cladding and insulation

:03:05. > :03:06.would have been equivalent It added the cladding's plastic

:03:07. > :03:10.core would have burned The contractors who fitted

:03:11. > :03:13.the cladding and insulation said A big clean-up operation

:03:14. > :03:16.is taking place in Cornwall, after flash floods

:03:17. > :03:18.swept through the village Residents reported hailstones

:03:19. > :03:22.the size of 50 pence pieces, and the village was divided in two

:03:23. > :03:25.by a four foot torrent of water. Engineers will assess damage

:03:26. > :03:28.to roads and property in the area. It comes as storms across other

:03:29. > :03:31.parts of the south of England also In Kent flash flooding trapped

:03:32. > :03:36.people in their homes and saw fire crews called out 60 times

:03:37. > :03:41.in 60 minutes. The BBC will publish details of how

:03:42. > :03:44.much it pays its talent later this For the first time the salaries

:03:45. > :03:49.of those who earn more than ?150,000 Only a third of the names

:03:50. > :03:54.on the list are women. The BBC Director-General, Lord Hall,

:03:55. > :03:57.said the corporation had argued stars' pay should not

:03:58. > :04:11.be made public. I don't think it's right that we

:04:12. > :04:15.should have names against salaries for stars for presenters and others.

:04:16. > :04:20.I believe that will be inflationary which I think it will be bad for

:04:21. > :04:24.licence fee payers and I believe it will be a poacher's charter. Look,

:04:25. > :04:36.we put the arguments out there, we lost.

:04:37. > :04:45.The Australian Prime Minister said he will seek an inquiry after an

:04:46. > :04:55.Australian woman was shot in the US. US media reported that Miss Damond

:04:56. > :04:59.was in her pyjamas. Phil Mercer is in Sydney for us.

:05:00. > :05:09.Tell us more about what happened and the reaction, Phil. The Australian

:05:10. > :05:14.Prime Minister says that the death of Justine Damond is shocking and he

:05:15. > :05:19.wants to know how a woman dressed her pyjamas seeking help from the

:05:20. > :05:23.police could have been shot dead. The investigation will look at why

:05:24. > :05:29.the officer's body cameras were not working and we understand that the

:05:30. > :05:33.40-year-old yoga teacher from Sydney had called the police to report a

:05:34. > :05:39.suspected sexual assault in an alleyway next to the home of her

:05:40. > :05:42.American fiancee. Australian diplomats have been charged with

:05:43. > :05:48.finding out more about the tragedy and a few hours ago the family of

:05:49. > :05:51.Justine Damond in Sydney held a silent vigil on a beach to remember

:05:52. > :06:05.the woman who was killed on Saturday evening.

:06:06. > :06:11.The leaders spoke towards the end of a formal dinner but the White House

:06:12. > :06:15.has not revealed what was discussed. President Trump has condemned media

:06:16. > :06:20.revelations of the talks as sick and insists there was nothing sinister

:06:21. > :06:23.about it. Inequality in the UK is reported to

:06:24. > :06:26.have fallen during the decade since the financial crash. The leading

:06:27. > :06:30.economic research group the Institute for Fiscal Studies says

:06:31. > :06:32.the gap between the richest and the poorest households has narrowed with

:06:33. > :06:36.the most noticeable change in London. It said one of the reasons

:06:37. > :06:40.for the change was a fall in earnings during the global financial

:06:41. > :06:45.crisis which started in 2007 and has remained steady since.

:06:46. > :06:49.Schools need a more coherent strategy for what to do in the case

:06:50. > :06:54.of a dangerous event taking place on their premises according to the

:06:55. > :06:59.teaching union the NASUWT, it says schools have ad hoc drills to deal

:07:00. > :07:05.with threats and wants a come prehence himself plan for so-called

:07:06. > :07:08.lockdown procedures. The Government says it constantly reviews the

:07:09. > :07:14.guidance it issues. Businesses will be banned for charging fees on debit

:07:15. > :07:22.and credit card transactions from January.

:07:23. > :07:27.S The Treasury says the fees cost consumers ?473 million in 2010

:07:28. > :07:29.alone. Hundreds of thousands of

:07:30. > :07:35.Mercedes-Benz diesel vehicles in the UK are to be recalled to improve

:07:36. > :07:38.their emissions systems. Daimler is under investigation for alleged

:07:39. > :07:42.emissions cheating. Similar to that of Volkswagen. A total of #3 three

:07:43. > :07:47.million vehicles across Europe are affected. Let's catch up with the

:07:48. > :07:56.sport. Hugh is there. Good morning, Hugh. Good morning. A thrilling

:07:57. > :08:02.final over win has sent England's women to the World Cup final. They

:08:03. > :08:06.restricted South Africa to 218, it looked like a comfortable target for

:08:07. > :08:16.England. After losing eight wickets in their reply, it came down to the

:08:17. > :08:20.last over. England will play Australia or India at Lords on

:08:21. > :08:24.Sunday. I think it is kind of sinking in

:08:25. > :08:29.right now. Once you get past the relief of getting over the line and

:08:30. > :08:33.we knew we came into this tournament with a good shot if we played good

:08:34. > :08:36.cricket and you can't win turnments in you're not in the fiblement we

:08:37. > :08:41.are pleased to be over the line and one more game to go! England and

:08:42. > :08:45.Scotland's famous old rivalry will be renewed on a bigger stage than

:08:46. > :08:48.ever before in women's football when the two meet in the European

:08:49. > :08:53.Championships in the Netherlands. England are aiming to improve on

:08:54. > :08:56.their third place finish at the 2015 World Cup which has them amongst the

:08:57. > :08:59.favourites for the tournament. Scotland are playing in their first

:09:00. > :09:05.major competition, but have lost key players to injury. Their head coach

:09:06. > :09:10.says it will be her proudest moment in football when they walk out on to

:09:11. > :09:16.the pitch later. The biggest thing is to try to enjoy it. Try to

:09:17. > :09:22.embrace the experience and that's been the message the whole journey

:09:23. > :09:27.now from when we qualified, all the preparations, it has been really

:09:28. > :09:31.about, you know, enjoy every single second.

:09:32. > :09:35.We have put in so much preparation as in physical work, so much work

:09:36. > :09:38.off the pitch and becoming a more together team and I'd like to say

:09:39. > :09:41.this is the most prepared we have felt going into a tournament. So I

:09:42. > :09:45.think that's why there is a lot of belief and a lot of determination

:09:46. > :09:50.around the squad. That's all from me for now. We will

:09:51. > :09:54.have the headlines just after 9.30am for you.

:09:55. > :10:00.Thank you very much, Hugh: Good morning we are back in North

:10:01. > :10:08.Kensington, it is five weeks since the fire which took the lives of at

:10:09. > :10:17.least 80 people at Grenfell. Today we are at the Tabor knackical

:10:18. > :10:21.Christian Centre. The donations keep coming on a daily basis. Not as in

:10:22. > :10:24.great a volume as the early days as you'd expect and we will show you

:10:25. > :10:29.around in a little bit. We are here for a number of reasons. Again,

:10:30. > :10:34.tonight, Kensington and Chelsea council are supposed to meet for the

:10:35. > :10:37.first time since the disaster and a new council leader is officially

:10:38. > :10:41.takes up her position at that meeting. There are one or two

:10:42. > :10:46.worries that the meeting may not go ahead because of the protest that

:10:47. > :10:49.are planned outside. We will talk to some of the protesters later on in

:10:50. > :10:55.the programme. We are here because five weeks on, some of the survivors

:10:56. > :10:59.tell us they are still in exactly the same limbo effectively as in the

:11:00. > :11:06.immediate aftermath of the fire. Still homeless. Still living in

:11:07. > :11:11.hotels, with none of their possessionsment many unable to go to

:11:12. > :11:15.work. Many unable to gain access to realistic financial support. They

:11:16. > :11:17.are not getting access to the right mental health support or any mental

:11:18. > :11:21.health support in some cases. And some of them say when they go to

:11:22. > :11:26.sleep at night, when they try to go to sleep at night, when they close

:11:27. > :11:31.their eyes they see images of their dead relatives, neighbours and

:11:32. > :11:35.friends. And they need some mental health support desperately. Of

:11:36. > :11:40.course, people in mourning, grieving for the people that lost their lives

:11:41. > :11:46.five weeks ago. They feel pretty much let down by almost everyone.

:11:47. > :11:53.PROBLEM WITH SOUND I want to take you inside the Tabor

:11:54. > :11:57.knackical Christian Centre if I may. There is a notice on the door,

:11:58. > :12:03."Thank you to all our volunteers from TCC." This is Pastor Derekment

:12:04. > :12:12.thank you for having us here. Pastor Derek. Good morning, Beverley, hi.

:12:13. > :12:16.Come in. Mind this carpet here. You will see around you men's clothes,

:12:17. > :12:21.women's clothes, jewellery. Now, these are all new items. These are

:12:22. > :12:26.new items of clothing. These have been donated by Marks Spencer, by

:12:27. > :12:31.John Lewis, by Primark because Pastor Derek thought the least

:12:32. > :12:36.people who survived the fire and those who were evacuated, the least

:12:37. > :12:42.they deserved was new items of clothing. This, this is a small, I

:12:43. > :12:47.mean, these have been made by a guy who came from Wales and delivered

:12:48. > :12:54.boxes of these, just a small cushion that he drove down in a van to

:12:55. > :12:58.deliver here at the centre. Let me introduce to you various people.

:12:59. > :13:02.Some of them you may recognise. Some are speaking publicly for the first

:13:03. > :13:09.time about what happened to them. Good morning, everybody. Good

:13:10. > :13:14.morning. This lady escaped from the second floor of Grenfell and next to

:13:15. > :13:21.her is her daughter and her partner Matthew, thank you for talking to

:13:22. > :13:29.us. You may remember Mahad, we spoke to on the morning of the fire and he

:13:30. > :13:32.spoke so articulately about how he had escaped, about what he had

:13:33. > :13:39.witnessed in the early hours of that morning. And also, alongside Mahad

:13:40. > :13:47.is his 15-year-old nephew. Thank you for talking to us. How are you? I'm

:13:48. > :13:56.fine, thank you. You're living in a hotel. Yes. With your... My

:13:57. > :14:03.grandson. How is that? Well, it hasn't been easy because the boy

:14:04. > :14:07.keeps having after a traumatic incident he keeps waking up during

:14:08. > :14:14.the middle of the night. I want to go to my room where he was

:14:15. > :14:27.comfortable and being autistic and ADHT. You say you're fine. Yeah, I'm

:14:28. > :14:34.fine. I'm breathing. I'm alive, but with every other thing around, it

:14:35. > :14:40.could be better. Do you feel it's getting worse?

:14:41. > :14:47.Well, I would say it's getting worse because if after six weeks and we

:14:48. > :14:51.are still in the hotel, unsure of our future, we don't know where we

:14:52. > :14:58.are going. We don't know where we are coming from. We sleep in a small

:14:59. > :15:07.cubical in the hotel room day in and day out. It could be better if

:15:08. > :15:11.things were taken more seriously because it looks like it is the

:15:12. > :15:16.charity organisations that has really helped us a lot. If the

:15:17. > :15:23.Government has done what they are supposed to do by now, we should be

:15:24. > :15:27.out of hotels. I know you have been offered accommodation. It's in

:15:28. > :15:31.Westminster which is a way away. That's not where your gropbd son

:15:32. > :15:34.goes to school. That would be a tricky thing for you to take him to

:15:35. > :15:39.school from another borough every morning. Do you have any idea when

:15:40. > :15:40.you might be offered something more appropriate for you and your

:15:41. > :15:51.grandson? I do not. And I don't see why I

:15:52. > :15:59.should be moved out of my borough. I raise my five children in this

:16:00. > :16:09.borough. I lived in that area for most of 35 years. We moved out of my

:16:10. > :16:20.comfort so the Wandsworth for eight years. Temporarily. Only six months

:16:21. > :16:41.ago, I was moved back into Grenfell Tower. I am today with nothing. I

:16:42. > :16:49.thought she was OK. My mum is very strong, very resilient. But now I

:16:50. > :16:56.know she is not OK. Why do you say that? Being the sort of person she

:16:57. > :17:00.is, she has tried to be strong but people around her, people in the

:17:01. > :17:06.hotels come to talk to her, they call her mum. She doesn't want to

:17:07. > :17:09.break down, she doesn't want to show that she is hurting and going

:17:10. > :17:18.through a lot of things but after the phone call I got at 1:30am last

:17:19. > :17:22.week, when she was rushed to hospital, I knew she was not OK.

:17:23. > :17:28.People in the hotel were telling you... They had to call an ambulance

:17:29. > :17:34.because she was having palpitations. I was going to come down but she

:17:35. > :17:46.said to them that she knows what it's like. She told me what the

:17:47. > :17:52.doctor had said. He had said he believes she is suffering from

:17:53. > :17:58.post-traumatic stress disorder. Goodness me.

:17:59. > :18:15.Good morning. How are you doing? I don't know.

:18:16. > :18:29.My chest is hurting, my heart is hurting. My body is aching. My wife

:18:30. > :18:31.is not well. My children are concerned for their well-being, I'm

:18:32. > :18:45.concerned for the development. It's a lot. Tell me more about how your

:18:46. > :18:51.kids are doing. My wife and I are trying to keep them as occupied as I

:18:52. > :18:58.can. My son is aware of the situation in terms of not being at

:18:59. > :19:07.home. Continuously asking for home. Asking for his toys.

:19:08. > :19:18.It's really, really difficult. As the father and the husband, it's

:19:19. > :19:28.scary when I don't know what's happening. It's really, really

:19:29. > :19:35.scary. How was your wife? She is really stressed. How does that

:19:36. > :19:40.manifest itself? She hasn't had any help either, no counselling. She

:19:41. > :19:45.doesn't want to leave the kids, if I'm not there, she looking after

:19:46. > :19:48.them. When I can, I am there to look after them and see if I can take

:19:49. > :20:09.them for a few hours. It's difficult. Is it getting

:20:10. > :20:16.harder? It is. It is getting harder because the deadlines are finished

:20:17. > :20:18.in terms of when the enquiry was fresh, there was a deadline and a

:20:19. > :20:28.sense of government being held to account. Local authority needing to

:20:29. > :20:37.take action urgently. But since the three-week deadline has finished...

:20:38. > :20:44.For the office of permanent accommodation? I knew they were not

:20:45. > :20:51.going to fulfil it. I told the housing minister, I told Sajid

:20:52. > :20:57.Javid, I told them face-to-face, I said I know you are an MP and I know

:20:58. > :21:01.you're going to say what you can to get out of this but please don't

:21:02. > :21:06.like to us. And if you cannot fulfil this, let us know. I've got two kids

:21:07. > :21:13.to worry about and a wife. Please don't mess around. There are elderly

:21:14. > :21:19.people, children, disabled people, traumatised people, people of all

:21:20. > :21:23.levels in this. Stop playing around with people's emotions. At the end

:21:24. > :21:28.of the day, they are not taking it seriously and there is nothing we

:21:29. > :21:35.can do about it. Let me bring in your nephew. Thank you for talking

:21:36. > :21:40.to us. You are 15. You see what is happening to your family, how do you

:21:41. > :21:47.cope with this? It is not the easiest thing to cope with. Just

:21:48. > :21:51.knowing that your family, your uncle is not all right and not knowing how

:21:52. > :21:57.to help or comfort him, just hoping he will get better. It's difficult.

:21:58. > :22:02.We are going to talk in a few minutes about what you think really

:22:03. > :22:06.could be done right now because there are things we have discussed

:22:07. > :22:10.this morning that are not happening. First, I want to bring our audience

:22:11. > :22:18.that a reporter has made. Five weeks on from the Grenfell

:22:19. > :22:21.Tower fire in west London, we've come back to the area to see

:22:22. > :22:25.how people are coping, It's really striking how five

:22:26. > :22:34.weeks on these tributes are still extremely moving

:22:35. > :22:36.and powerful, and still daily, people are coming here,

:22:37. > :22:39.to pay their tributes, bring candles, write notes, bring

:22:40. > :22:47.flowers and just pay their respects. Our first stop is a church just

:22:48. > :22:51.around the corner from the tower. The pastor and a team of volunteers

:22:52. > :22:54.are helping the survivors and local Joseph, his son and his

:22:55. > :23:02.brother-in-law Karim escaped Until now, they haven't

:23:03. > :23:09.spoken to anyone from What happened - tell me

:23:10. > :23:17.what happened that night. After 12, just after 12,

:23:18. > :23:21.we hear like noise from outside and on our floor, so we was like,

:23:22. > :23:25.I was, like, "What's going on?" My wife was still sleeping, my son,

:23:26. > :23:29.so I wake up off my bed and get up and went outside.

:23:30. > :23:32.I was, like, "What's going on?" So I saw two firefighters and I was,

:23:33. > :23:38.like "What's going on?" They says, like, "A minor fire."

:23:39. > :23:43.They have it under control, go back in our flats,

:23:44. > :23:48.and we get back in our flat. After 10, 15 minutes I was,

:23:49. > :23:52.like, we can see smoke, and we are seeing the fire

:23:53. > :23:56.escalating, going up the building, so I was, like, "I'm not waiting

:23:57. > :24:00.for them firefighters, We could have been dead

:24:01. > :24:09.if I had listened to them. And then I used my head and came out

:24:10. > :24:14.and take my family out. We was worried about my

:24:15. > :24:18.brother-in-law, but so happened when we came out, he was out.

:24:19. > :24:22.So it was all good. We were focussing

:24:23. > :24:25.on other families now. We tried to help people,

:24:26. > :24:29.but they didn't let us, and then we were just watching these

:24:30. > :24:33.people in the windows, waving flashlights and screaming.

:24:34. > :24:38.I couldn't do nothing, man. Five weeks on, what's

:24:39. > :24:41.improved for you? Nothing.

:24:42. > :24:45.Nothing improve for us. That's getting worse

:24:46. > :24:49.and worse every day. Joseph, with his partner,

:24:50. > :24:53.son and brother-in-law have been living in a single room at a hotel

:24:54. > :24:57.for the past month. They have refused to move

:24:58. > :25:00.into alternative temporary accommodation, saying that

:25:01. > :25:03.what they were offered was unsuitable.

:25:04. > :25:06.What accommodation have you and your family been offered?

:25:07. > :25:10.Temporary accomodation in W2. Somewhere in Westminster.

:25:11. > :25:14.So outside the borough you live in? Yes, we rejected it

:25:15. > :25:18.because it was temporary, and it wasn't suiting my partner's

:25:19. > :25:22.needs, so therefore it wasn't really suitable for us.

:25:23. > :25:25.Was it a tower block? You are still coming

:25:26. > :25:32.to a donation centre. You haven't been rehoused,

:25:33. > :25:35.you are in a hotel. What would you like to see happen

:25:36. > :25:39.in the next five weeks? For me, and for every other

:25:40. > :25:43.survivor, they want the Government to meet their demands,

:25:44. > :25:47.which place them in a house first, then they can talk

:25:48. > :25:50.about anything else. Proper housing, anything

:25:51. > :25:54.else goes after. Guys, it was so nice

:25:55. > :25:59.meeting you, man. Thank you for talking to me.

:26:00. > :26:02.Karim, my friend, take care, bro. All the best.

:26:03. > :26:12.See you later. It's an eye-opener to think that

:26:13. > :26:16.five weeks on, Joseph is still in a hotel.

:26:17. > :26:20.Four people in one room - him, his son, his brother-in-law

:26:21. > :26:29.and his partner. We managed to talk to another

:26:30. > :26:33.survivor, Mamudu Rumayatu. She is currently living

:26:34. > :26:37.at a hotel in Kensington. In her late 60s, and with her

:26:38. > :26:40.12-year-old grandson, she also lived on the second

:26:41. > :26:44.floor of Grenfell. Five weeks on, how are you doing?

:26:45. > :26:47.I can't sleep well in the night. I wake up with palpitations,

:26:48. > :26:50.scared that something might happen to me again.

:26:51. > :26:55.Sweating. That hasn't diminished

:26:56. > :27:02.at all, five weeks on? No, it hasn't.

:27:03. > :27:05.It's worse. Because by now, I should have

:27:06. > :27:08.received counselling. And you haven't?

:27:09. > :27:11.I haven't. I haven't.

:27:12. > :27:20.We moved to this hotel about ten hours after the fire.

:27:21. > :27:25.And I was taken to the ninth floor, which was very difficult for me

:27:26. > :27:29.to absorb into my system. Ninth floor of the hotel?

:27:30. > :27:35.Yes, not after coming from fire, that you put me

:27:36. > :27:42.on the ninth floor again. So I agitated that I want to go

:27:43. > :27:46.down, I don't want to stay up there, so they brought me down.

:27:47. > :27:51.She cares for her grandson full-time,

:27:52. > :27:54.who is autistic and has ADHD. She carried him out the tower

:27:55. > :27:58.during the fire, injuring her wrist and back in the process.

:27:59. > :28:04.You are in this room, with your grandson.

:28:05. > :28:07.Do you like it, is it good enough for you?

:28:08. > :28:11.No, I don't like it. This place is like we are in prison.

:28:12. > :28:14.I mean, under normal circumstances, I'm not 20 or 30 years old,

:28:15. > :28:21.Have you been offered accommodation elsewhere,

:28:22. > :28:28.Yes, I was offered one, but in a different borough,

:28:29. > :28:32.which I went and had a look at today.

:28:33. > :28:36.It is very thoughtful of them, at least, to remember that they have

:28:37. > :28:40.to offer us a place, but we need a more spacious

:28:41. > :28:44.accommodation for a special needs child, to be able to move around.

:28:45. > :28:56.And more so in a borough where he is used to his family,

:28:57. > :29:03.his people, his doctor, his playground, everything.

:29:04. > :29:10.I want to live in the local area where I had lived for 45 years.

:29:11. > :29:13.Are you hopeful you are going to get somewhere that

:29:14. > :29:21.Well, I am hopeful, and I think the Government or the people,

:29:22. > :29:26.the authority has an obligation to put me in a suitable

:29:27. > :29:31.place of my choice, and of the little boy's choice.

:29:32. > :29:36.You think they are going to do that? Hopefully.

:29:37. > :29:40.Some people watching might think residents are demanding too much,

:29:41. > :29:45.that they are not being flexible, that maybe expectations need to be

:29:46. > :29:49.managed, what would you say to those sorts of people?

:29:50. > :29:53.I think whoever think they are demanding too

:29:54. > :29:59.much has never gone through what we have gone through.

:30:00. > :30:02.Imagine you going to bed in the night, you've made your home

:30:03. > :30:09.All of a sudden, there is fire, nobody wakes you up,

:30:10. > :30:12.you manage to survive, and somebody comes to tell

:30:13. > :30:18.you the expectation is too much? What do they expect us to do?

:30:19. > :30:23.Fold our arms and say, "Oh, come on, help me, please"?

:30:24. > :30:28.It doesn't work that way. We've all worked hard in that

:30:29. > :30:32.building, to be inside there. I have worked all my life.

:30:33. > :30:36.How long do you reckon it's going to be until you can begin

:30:37. > :30:39.to live a normal life with your grandson?

:30:40. > :30:48.As long as they decide, when they decide to move us

:30:49. > :30:52.from here, that would be a way forward.

:30:53. > :30:55.Because right now we have no, no hopes, nothing.

:30:56. > :30:59.We are just living from day-to-day. If not the charity organisations,

:31:00. > :31:03.I wouldn't be wearing this today. We are the ones affected.

:31:04. > :31:07.We lost our properties. We lost lives.

:31:08. > :31:14.Nobody from the council has ever come and said,

:31:15. > :31:18."Get them all together, let's sympathise with them.

:31:19. > :31:26.I don't know what's next, because it looks like right now,

:31:27. > :31:34.You would call this officer on the phone, "Oh, sorry,

:31:35. > :31:42.This is not the time for holiday for anybody.

:31:43. > :32:07.It's clear that many survivors are struggling with trauma,

:32:08. > :32:09.and are not receiving essential mental health support.

:32:10. > :32:14.After leaving, Mamuda at the hotel, I went back to the church to meet

:32:15. > :32:21.I go to the hotels, I see, you know - you start one week,

:32:22. > :32:23.they're happy, but I've gradually see this despair and

:32:24. > :32:33.Their shoulders become, you know, coming down.

:32:34. > :32:35.You think they're becoming more disenfranchised?

:32:36. > :32:38.Absolutely. Disillusioned, disenfranchised.

:32:39. > :32:41.One of the survivors tried to commit suicide not too long ago,

:32:42. > :32:46.Really, and you are in touch with these people?

:32:47. > :32:48.Yeah, I'm in touch with these people.

:32:49. > :32:52.Very much so, I'm in touch with these people.

:32:53. > :33:11.All of us are lucky to be alive. Whether we lived here or anywhere.

:33:12. > :33:17.We've never had anything of this nature post-war UK.

:33:18. > :33:24.The communication needs to be on point, and all these splinter

:33:25. > :33:27.groups need to come together and focus on the task in hand,

:33:28. > :33:33.Can you cite examples where you have seen authority act impressively?

:33:34. > :33:42.Yes, when they were deducting rent from people's accounts,

:33:43. > :33:54.That was some kind of insensitivity to a level.

:33:55. > :33:55.That was impressive. That was impressive.

:33:56. > :34:01.So it's been five weeks since the fire.

:34:02. > :34:07.What do the next fire five weeks hold?

:34:08. > :34:08.Organisation, communication, continued love and outreach

:34:09. > :34:12.I've already started saying to people, make emergency packs,

:34:13. > :34:15.learn how to crawl around your homes in the dark.

:34:16. > :34:21.No, this is my life, because it's happened to me.

:34:22. > :34:29.I live this fear every day of my life, because it's happened to me.

:34:30. > :34:44.So this isn't new to me, this could have been me.

:34:45. > :34:47.Coming back to the area and meeting new survivors and volunteers,

:34:48. > :34:49.it's striking to see the level of distrust locals still have

:34:50. > :34:53.Many are still heavily reliant on donations

:34:54. > :34:56.and the support of volunteers, making one thing very clear -

:34:57. > :35:15.survivors still have a long road ahead.

:35:16. > :35:19.Obviously reinvited the Government representatives of various Cabinet

:35:20. > :35:25.Ministers to join us on the programme today. We also invited

:35:26. > :35:29.Kensington and Chelsea borough council to be with us today. They

:35:30. > :35:33.said no. Some of your message as you're watching our guests and

:35:34. > :35:36.watching Ashley's film. Karen on Facebook says, "These people have

:35:37. > :35:42.lost their homes and everything they own and they are lucky to be alive.

:35:43. > :35:46.Why shouldn't they stay in the community they are used to?" Nicole

:35:47. > :35:48.says, "These people have lost everything and now the Connell want

:35:49. > :35:53.to remove them from the community that is supporting them. I cannot

:35:54. > :36:01.believe anyone would want to prevent them from receiving support and

:36:02. > :36:04.housing in their local community." Northernan says, "Politicians are

:36:05. > :36:07.distancing themselves from all responsibilities." Amanda says,

:36:08. > :36:15."These are the stories we should be hearing, decent people wanting a

:36:16. > :36:21.decent life." This lady escaped from the second floor of Grenfell with

:36:22. > :36:29.her 12-year-old grandson. Mahad is here. He escaped with his wife and

:36:30. > :36:39.two very young children and Mahad's 15-year-old nephew.

:36:40. > :36:43.People watching might be thinking in every hotel there will be a mental

:36:44. > :36:49.health expert, a finance expert, a housing expert. Is that happening?

:36:50. > :36:58.Are there teams of those people? The only people we see every day, every

:36:59. > :37:05.day, the charity organisations, friendly neighbourhoods. We don't

:37:06. > :37:11.see anybody except the stewards and people that are working there. Is

:37:12. > :37:16.that a surprise to you? Disappointment, not surprise.

:37:17. > :37:22.Disappointed. Initially when mum was at the hotel she was upstairs

:37:23. > :37:27.constantly because she got hurt trying to escape. Now she comes

:37:28. > :37:30.downstairs. The people that she says apart from the survivors are the

:37:31. > :37:34.volunteers and these people have been incredible. I can't say thank

:37:35. > :37:38.you enough. Everything my mum has got everything she is wearing is

:37:39. > :37:42.from them actually going out. They come in and ask, what size are you?

:37:43. > :37:47.What do you want? What do you need? They go out and get these things.

:37:48. > :37:52.Those are the people that are downstairs. No professionals are

:37:53. > :37:59.downstairs. If I may come in. The first time I moved into that place I

:38:00. > :38:07.did tell the hotel or the Kensington and Chelsea, I have back problem. I

:38:08. > :38:17.bought myself an orthopaedic mattress. I slept on the floor for

:38:18. > :38:22.seven days. I asked Kensington and Chelsea to please give me an

:38:23. > :38:29.orthopaedic mattress. It took that long before a charity now give me an

:38:30. > :38:37.orthopaedic bed mattress which I now sleep on. Your mum is alive and

:38:38. > :38:41.surely the money from the millions of pounds that we know now has been

:38:42. > :38:45.raised by generous British people, surely that's getting through. What

:38:46. > :38:54.do you say to those people? I'd like to say thank you very much. I don't

:38:55. > :38:58.know half of you. Half of you don't know me. Your kindness has been

:38:59. > :39:01.overwhelming. The amount you have raised has been generous. Where I

:39:02. > :39:05.live in Hampshire people have come up to me and said, "But they are

:39:06. > :39:09.getting all this money." A colleague said, "Your mum is alive." I looked

:39:10. > :39:14.and I thought actually yeah, she is alive. But what I didn't realise and

:39:15. > :39:20.what most people don't realise, yes they are alive, but that's not it.

:39:21. > :39:25.There is so much to do. The money that's been raised. We don't know

:39:26. > :39:29.where it's going. We think it's going to Kensington Chelsea,

:39:30. > :39:33.wherever it's going, but I don't understand how Kensington and

:39:34. > :39:38.Chelsea can be responsible for the money for something that they were

:39:39. > :39:41.negligent about? Why can't the Government help these people? Why

:39:42. > :39:44.can't they put the money together somewhere and give it to these

:39:45. > :39:49.people to help them. People feel that they have to beg. Some of these

:39:50. > :39:52.people are doctors, lawyers, honestly, I don't think it matters

:39:53. > :39:56.what profession anyone is. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I

:39:57. > :40:00.wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I think the Government should take

:40:01. > :40:03.more responsibility and look after mummy. I can't blame the nation

:40:04. > :40:06.thinking well these people are getting lots and lots of money,

:40:07. > :40:10.they're not. They haven't got a penny of your money yet. I can

:40:11. > :40:16.assure you of that and we don't know where it is.

:40:17. > :40:22.Mahad, you have still and you've articulated this to us before, that

:40:23. > :40:26.you still have serious worries about the numbers in terms of the official

:40:27. > :40:29.numbers that we have from the Metropolitan Police that at least 80

:40:30. > :40:34.people have died and they say it could be sometime, if not next year,

:40:35. > :40:39.before we know the true figure. You were worrying last night because it

:40:40. > :40:45.was raining here. Tell our audience why. Last night we had a storm,

:40:46. > :40:54.thunder and lightening and a lot of heavy rain. The building is still

:40:55. > :40:58.not preserved. The evidence is not preserved and there has been

:40:59. > :41:08.negligence on all accounts, at all levels. Before, during and after the

:41:09. > :41:15.fire. We still don't know the total number of presumed dead. And so many

:41:16. > :41:22.people, so many different levels are all grieving. We need answers. We

:41:23. > :41:28.need to know how many people are missing. We need to know how many

:41:29. > :41:36.are confirmed dead and we need some answers and some people are waiting

:41:37. > :41:40.to find out if there is any remains of their loved ones and we really

:41:41. > :41:44.think that they are dragging their feet about this, on this

:41:45. > :41:51.investigation and in terms of... Sorry to interrupt. The police have

:41:52. > :42:00.said, we care. We are on our hands and knees going through that tower,

:42:01. > :42:04.carefully and dig gently. I will be honest with you Victoria, we need to

:42:05. > :42:09.still see that, it is not what they are doing right now. From the

:42:10. > :42:15.meetings I have had with the police commander he did specifically say

:42:16. > :42:21.that the floors are not stable and therefore, they are getting builders

:42:22. > :42:27.in. At that meeting he also did express to us that there will be a

:42:28. > :42:31.covering for the building and soon as possible and yesterday I have

:42:32. > :42:36.come to learn that they have now proposed for November. Now, that's

:42:37. > :42:39.not as soon as possible, is it? Also, the fact that the police

:42:40. > :42:44.commander himself said that there will be builders going in there in

:42:45. > :42:50.order to stabilise the floors and landings and you know to make the

:42:51. > :42:58.building more stable is worrying and concerning because in the same

:42:59. > :43:03.sentence which they say that it's not safe and it needs to be

:43:04. > :43:06.stabilised they are saying that it's safe for the adjacent and

:43:07. > :43:13.neighbouring buildings to be occupied by people and that's again

:43:14. > :43:18.another form of neglect and again disregard to human life. So it's no

:43:19. > :43:24.surprise that what the general public has donated in terms of money

:43:25. > :43:34.and clothing has been taken by central Government and been

:43:35. > :43:37.micromanaged in that sense. The building is being neglected. I'm

:43:38. > :43:43.going to pause for a moment if I may. I'm going to talk to Pastor

:43:44. > :43:53.Derick. Thank you for the moment. I know we're going to hear more from

:43:54. > :43:58.you later. Pastor Derick is going to talk to us about the things that

:43:59. > :44:03.have been donated. The volume has reduced which is expected? What we

:44:04. > :44:06.have decided to do is give the survivors brand-new clothing which

:44:07. > :44:13.have been received from the companies around John Lewis, Evans

:44:14. > :44:18.and Marks Spencer's, and they have an opportunity to come here, in an

:44:19. > :44:21.environment like this and go through with an assistant and volunteer. So

:44:22. > :44:26.you assign a volunteer to each survivor? That's right. And then

:44:27. > :44:30.them through. Even making these kind of decisions, it's stressful.

:44:31. > :44:36.Absolutely. Some of them are still traumatised. Some of them were still

:44:37. > :44:41.in the same clothing since they left the tower. Really? Because of the

:44:42. > :44:50.trauma and they came here to see what we have. These are not charity

:44:51. > :44:53.cases. A good of the survivors had an apartment and they have got their

:44:54. > :44:57.own business. That's why we have decided that what they have gone

:44:58. > :45:03.through, let's give them brand-new stuff. Here we have shoes and

:45:04. > :45:08.flip-flops and we have got a good number of sizes that they are able

:45:09. > :45:12.to go through. And... This is the room where you keep the food

:45:13. > :45:18.effectively? Right, we have got the side hall where the food is. You can

:45:19. > :45:19.see the different range of food dough nated by Waitrose and

:45:20. > :45:31.Sainsbury's and Tesco. Are you able to ring them up and

:45:32. > :45:34.say, we're short on baked beans, is that how it works? We haven't been

:45:35. > :45:38.short on anything for quite some time. This came in the first week,

:45:39. > :45:45.we didn't ring anyone, they just started delivering. As they received

:45:46. > :45:49.their apartment, they are able to come here and pick up food. We've

:45:50. > :45:53.got brand-new mattresses we had delivered to the homes of some of

:45:54. > :46:00.the survivors. Outside in the garden, there are more food and

:46:01. > :46:06.toiletries we were able to go through and sort out what they need.

:46:07. > :46:10.Thank you for having us here today. The night, one of the reasons we are

:46:11. > :46:15.here today, is the night, the Kensington and Chelsea Borough

:46:16. > :46:22.Council are due to meet for the first time since the fire at ground.

:46:23. > :46:27.You'll remember the former leader Nicholas Paget-Brown and his deputy

:46:28. > :46:31.Rock Fielding resigned 48 hours after we last broadcast our

:46:32. > :46:36.There's been so much talk about the cladding of Grenfell

:46:37. > :46:38.and indeed other tower blocks around the country.

:46:39. > :46:41.This programme has learned that the type of cladding used

:46:42. > :46:43.on the outside of Grenfell Tower - when it's burned -

:46:44. > :46:47.releases 14 times the amount of heat than is allowed under a key

:46:48. > :46:54.Our reporter Jim Reed is here with more.

:46:55. > :46:58.So we've heard lots about the cladding used

:46:59. > :47:00.on Grenfell and how it appeared to spread the fire.

:47:01. > :47:06.What have you find out and how significant is it?

:47:07. > :47:11.The witnesses have also talked about that night, how quickly the flames

:47:12. > :47:17.seemed to spread up the building. These cladding panels in the

:47:18. > :47:21.installation, were installed over a couple of years as part of this ?10

:47:22. > :47:28.million refurbishment of Grenfell Tower. We now know the government

:47:29. > :47:33.tested these panels. Those panels did not pass that safety test. They

:47:34. > :47:40.failed the test of limited combustibility. What is surprising

:47:41. > :47:43.if by how much they failed. The heat produced by these panels was 14

:47:44. > :47:46.times the limit set by the government to pass that test so

:47:47. > :47:47.significantly above the level that would have been allowed under those

:47:48. > :48:00.regulations. It is very complicated. We asked the

:48:01. > :48:07.government for the test results but they are not making them Hubnik at

:48:08. > :48:14.the moment. We had been passed a copy of the French test data. We

:48:15. > :48:21.presume it will come through with the same results. The three academic

:48:22. > :48:24.check the result is that the calculations we were making a

:48:25. > :48:29.reasonable calculations. The cladding on the outside of the

:48:30. > :48:32.building, behind that, equally as important, you have the

:48:33. > :48:39.installation. We spoke to academics at Lee's university and they said

:48:40. > :48:42.there is about 18 worth of this installation and that would have

:48:43. > :48:48.omitted heat at around eight times the level set either government as

:48:49. > :48:50.safe. So you have the cladding and the installation behind it.

:48:51. > :48:55.And what do the manufacturers say about all this?

:48:56. > :49:08.There are two of them Arconic say this is only one part of the overall

:49:09. > :49:13.system. And another French company who made the installation, they say

:49:14. > :49:20.they can't comment while this is this ongoing investigation.

:49:21. > :49:23.We can now talk about that a bit more with fire safety expert

:49:24. > :49:26.and chartered surveyor Arnold Tarling

:49:27. > :49:28.You've spent 30 years in the building industry.

:49:29. > :49:31.What do you make of this finding that the cladding burnt with 14

:49:32. > :49:34.times the heat than allowed under government safety tests?

:49:35. > :49:42.I have to say I am not surprised with the materials used in there. We

:49:43. > :49:47.have been using materials for many years, London had the building act

:49:48. > :49:51.section 20 and none of these materials would have been allowed.

:49:52. > :49:57.We have not allowed those materials on building since the Great Fire of

:49:58. > :49:59.London in 1666. We learned that long ago.

:50:00. > :50:03.What does it tell us about building regulations in this

:50:04. > :50:18.The building regulations in this country, they are not fit for

:50:19. > :50:23.purpose. It was stated in the Latta house coroners inquest that they

:50:24. > :50:28.immediately immediate review. They are convoluted and misleading. You

:50:29. > :50:40.can get comments saying you cannot use installation below class H two

:50:41. > :50:46.on a building but then you test it. Class B and C may pass. So have you

:50:47. > :50:51.failed or have you passed? Then you get comments about composite

:50:52. > :50:57.materials such as the aluminium composite material which tells you

:50:58. > :51:00.in two places, you ignore the core. Then you get people like the

:51:01. > :51:02.national house-building confederation with the

:51:03. > :51:09.recommendations on external cladding. And they were quite

:51:10. > :51:17.categorical that aluminium materials were perfectly acceptable unless

:51:18. > :51:25.they contained polythene inside them.

:51:26. > :51:33.You can interpret these how you like. Some people saying the

:51:34. > :51:43.material is filler. Filler isn't the polyethylene. Filler is what you put

:51:44. > :51:50.in to fill a dent or a hole. What should happen now? We need a

:51:51. > :51:55.complete investigation into building regulations. We need a complete

:51:56. > :52:01.rewrite to make it simple so that anybody can understand it. And we

:52:02. > :52:06.need to change the advisers to government who have been

:52:07. > :52:11.mis-advising the ministers. Because I don't expect my MP to understand

:52:12. > :52:16.the intricacies of fire safety in a building, I expect the advisers to

:52:17. > :52:18.be telling them. When you find that the advisers have conflicts of

:52:19. > :52:24.interest because they also are working for private industry,

:52:25. > :52:30.because we no longer have a government owned fire testing

:52:31. > :52:34.station, what is going to happen, they will cover things up. They will

:52:35. > :52:39.not release that information because... We don't know they will

:52:40. > :52:51.cover things up to be fair. Thank you.

:52:52. > :52:58.Eric Sehn, a lot of the Grenfell Tower survivors suffering from PTSD

:52:59. > :53:05.and they need professional counselling. Dave said on Twitter,

:53:06. > :53:09.sarcastically, it makes you proud to be British but my heart goes out

:53:10. > :53:20.those suffering. Linda says all my prayers are with these families.

:53:21. > :53:24.Paul says this is that disgusting, the way this government have treated

:53:25. > :53:31.the survivors. Five weeks on and still no real help. We will talk

:53:32. > :53:36.more about the lack of mental health support because the more people we

:53:37. > :53:39.talk to, survivors and residents talked about the lack of mental

:53:40. > :53:46.health support three weeks ago when we were here. On the morning we were

:53:47. > :53:51.here, the day after, and still, five weeks on, there doesn't seem to be

:53:52. > :53:55.the professional help. It is definitely out there but people

:53:56. > :54:02.can't access it somehow. We talked with a lady a little earlier

:54:03. > :54:06.about... It would help her, she's living in a hotel with her grandson

:54:07. > :54:10.and it would help if she went down to reception of the hotel, there was

:54:11. > :54:16.somebody to help with finances, debt, mental health. You are back

:54:17. > :54:28.with us. Joseph John is also with us.

:54:29. > :54:30.Karim as well, Joseph's brother-in-law and while staying

:54:31. > :54:37.over on the night of the fire. Dr John Green, the NHS

:54:38. > :54:41.clinical lead for the mental health response to the fire,

:54:42. > :54:45.Dr Gary Wannan, Consultant Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist

:54:46. > :54:48.And Dr Shamender Talwar, a psychologist who has

:54:49. > :54:51.offered his services to those He has seen 32 survivors altogether,

:54:52. > :55:31.with some of them members Tell our experts what you think you

:55:32. > :55:34.might need. What would be helpful? I thought I was OK initially after

:55:35. > :55:43.escaping from the fire. I inhaled some smoke and I saw the Red Cross

:55:44. > :55:49.and they said it would clear in time. So I thought everything was

:55:50. > :55:55.OK. But subsequently, I start waking up at 1am, having palpitations,

:55:56. > :56:01.sweating, confused. With the little boy as well, he is autistic and he

:56:02. > :56:07.has ADHD and his routine has been stopped so he wakes up saying, let's

:56:08. > :56:11.go back to the flat, let's go to our house. We cannot go back to the

:56:12. > :56:17.house, it is burned. It is difficult for him to accept the fact it is

:56:18. > :56:26.burned. So we are still living under the delusion that we are OK. But if

:56:27. > :56:29.we had experts coming around, knocking on our door, saying, you

:56:30. > :56:35.are not OK, you have gone through this trauma, this is what should be

:56:36. > :56:41.done. We will wake up and come back to reality. It is like we are still

:56:42. > :56:47.dreaming. Let me bring in the child and adolescent psychologist, this

:56:48. > :56:52.lady has a 12-year-old grandson. I think this is really upsetting, to

:56:53. > :56:58.hear how you as a family have been affected. I think that some of the

:56:59. > :57:05.symptoms, the distress you are speaking about can be understood.

:57:06. > :57:08.Other people who go through trauma experienced something similar. I'm

:57:09. > :57:12.not saying it to play down what is going on fear but rather to say that

:57:13. > :57:17.these are things that are recognised. The things that you can

:57:18. > :57:22.be helped with. Clearly for you and your grandson, at this stage, to be

:57:23. > :57:28.having symptoms as you are, it is vital you do get the right help. I

:57:29. > :57:36.think people know that. But where do they go? Forgive me, I am not

:57:37. > :57:45.speaking on your behalf. Where did they go? People should come to them.

:57:46. > :57:49.Just to say, as well as my clinic being literally up the road and I

:57:50. > :57:53.can give you my contact details and details of the clinic, please tell

:57:54. > :57:58.me where you live. I know that my colleagues have been going around

:57:59. > :58:03.hotel rooms, they have been out and giving information. I'm sorry it has

:58:04. > :58:09.not got to you. There are outreach clinics going out, we have been

:58:10. > :58:16.commissioning as part... Watt is an outreach clinic somewhere people go?

:58:17. > :58:21.They let us know where they are and an outreach clinic will come out to

:58:22. > :58:25.them. We have a message that we want to be clear to everybody that there

:58:26. > :58:32.is no wrong front door. They can go to the GP, the schools should be

:58:33. > :58:35.supporting, just to give us your information, for anyone to let the

:58:36. > :58:39.GP know that this is going on and what extra support they need. We

:58:40. > :58:44.really want it to be around a person. We are talking about

:58:45. > :58:56.traumatised people, if you say they should go... Why can't they reach

:58:57. > :59:02.us? We are traumatised. There are four people here who were affected.

:59:03. > :59:07.Have any of you... Has anyone said, I can help you with the mental

:59:08. > :59:19.health side of things? No, we had just been getting harassment. Why?

:59:20. > :59:23.In my situation, we suffered mental health issues and they are not

:59:24. > :59:32.helping, they are just making things worse. Every day, they are harassing

:59:33. > :59:35.me. About what? Someone I know it was on sleeping pills before sundown

:59:36. > :59:39.she wanted the same sleeping pills because they work for her and they

:59:40. > :59:47.don't want to get hurt. They are trying to make it look like she

:59:48. > :59:53.needs to go in the mental hospital. Doctor John Green...

:59:54. > :59:55.You're the chief psychologist and clinical lead for the mental

:59:56. > :00:01.health response to the fire at Grenfell Tower.

:00:02. > :00:08.We have sent teams into the hotel is trying to find as many people and

:00:09. > :00:17.reach as many people as possible. One of our problems is to know where

:00:18. > :00:20.people are. I would say if you... You need to let us know if you have

:00:21. > :00:27.not been reached at this stage and we will do something about this. You

:00:28. > :00:31.can go to your GP, style NHS 111 and that goes straight through to us on

:00:32. > :00:35.Grenfell Tower. And we will be going out and trying to do exactly what

:00:36. > :00:41.you were saying, trying to find people who haven't been reached.

:00:42. > :00:51.We're coming up to the news. I know Mahad wants to speak. It is a huge

:00:52. > :00:58.issue. It is ten o'clock. Let's bring you the weather and here

:00:59. > :01:02.Simon. Last night we had a spectacular show with lightening.

:01:03. > :01:05.Over 150,000 lightening strikes were recorded. We had plenty of Weather

:01:06. > :01:11.Watcher photos sent in to us. This is one of my favourites from last

:01:12. > :01:15.night in Dorset. Some really good fork lightening there. There are

:01:16. > :01:19.more thunderstorms in the forecast today. If you get hit by a

:01:20. > :01:23.thunderstorm, like yesterday, we could see flash flooding, frequent

:01:24. > :01:27.lightening, some hail and gusty winds. For many of us this morning a

:01:28. > :01:31.quieter period. Lots of dry weather with sunny spells, but it is later

:01:32. > :01:34.into the afternoon where across Northern Ireland, into North Wales,

:01:35. > :01:37.the Midlands, southern parts of north-west England could see the

:01:38. > :01:42.risk of those really intense thunderstorms, but it will be a very

:01:43. > :01:47.warm if not hot day again. Temperatures in the South East could

:01:48. > :01:51.reach 32 Celsius. The storms work their way further northward into

:01:52. > :01:58.Scotland. Elsewhere, becoming drier and as we go through Thursday, it is

:01:59. > :02:01.turning fresher. The risk of storms in the morning, by the weekend sunny

:02:02. > :02:03.spells and showers, and temperatures where they should be for the time of

:02:04. > :02:09.year. We're in North Kensington -

:02:10. > :02:16.five weeks on from the Grenfell Tower fire which claimed the lives

:02:17. > :02:19.of at least 80 people and has left the survivors traumatised

:02:20. > :02:28.and uncertain over their futures. We're still in the hotel unsure of

:02:29. > :02:32.our future. We don't know where we are going. We don't know where we

:02:33. > :02:39.are coming from. My chest is hurting. My heart is

:02:40. > :02:47.hurting. My feet are aching. My body is aching. My wife is not well. My

:02:48. > :02:48.children, I'm concerned for their well-being and development. It's a

:02:49. > :02:52.lot. It is a lot. Survivors and their families

:02:53. > :03:11.say the money still Yes, they are alive, but that's not

:03:12. > :03:15.it. There is so much 20 do. To do. They haven't got a penny of your

:03:16. > :03:18.money yet. I can assure you of that and we don't know where it is.

:03:19. > :03:22.Those who escaped the fire are understandably traumatised,

:03:23. > :03:25.but some still haven't received counselling and say their mental

:03:26. > :03:49.It's worse because by now I should have received counselling. I

:03:50. > :03:56.haven't. I haven't. Some mess angs. Ages. Andrew says "I'm disgusted

:03:57. > :04:01.that no one from the Government is prepared to attend the meeting."

:04:02. > :04:07.Rich on Twitter says, "These people are alive but their life has gone."

:04:08. > :04:10.Ryan on Twitter says, "It is so important that you are keeping the

:04:11. > :04:15.spotlight on this issue. That the victims get answers that they need

:04:16. > :04:18.and aren't forgotten about." Chuck says, "Thank you for continuing to

:04:19. > :04:23.highlight the inadequate establishment response. Seeing the

:04:24. > :04:26.Grenfell survivors today still in limbo is so shameful." We will bring

:04:27. > :04:31.you more from North Kensington after the news and the sport.

:04:32. > :04:49.Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:04:50. > :04:56.It added that the cladding's plastic core would have burnt as quickly as

:04:57. > :04:58.petrol. The contractors who fitted the cladding and insulation say they

:04:59. > :05:10.both passed all regulations. The BBC will publish how much it

:05:11. > :05:13.pays its talent. The salaries of those who earn more than ?150,000 a

:05:14. > :05:20.year will be revealed. A third of the names on the list are women. We

:05:21. > :05:25.can speak now to the Labour peer and Steve Barnet professor of

:05:26. > :05:29.communications and order of battle for the BBC. Steve, is it right to

:05:30. > :05:36.be publishing these? No, I don't think it is. It is unnecessary. It's

:05:37. > :05:40.perfectly OK to publish figures in an anonymised form which would

:05:41. > :05:43.satisfy the need for transparency and accountability, but to have

:05:44. > :05:48.names against figures is mean spirited. I think it's a deliberate

:05:49. > :05:54.attempt to try and undermine the BBC and I think the consequences will be

:05:55. > :05:57.quite dangerous in terms of inflating talent fees

:05:58. > :06:02.across-the-board, not just for the BBC and in the end, making it much

:06:03. > :06:07.more difficult for the BBC it attract the kind of talent that we

:06:08. > :06:11.need for a public service broadcaster that is still loved by

:06:12. > :06:15.everyone, where everyone pays the licence fee and where it's important

:06:16. > :06:19.to be popular as well as high quality. Can there be proper

:06:20. > :06:23.transparency and accountability without naming names? What we know

:06:24. > :06:29.as a result of names being in the frame now is that in the band of

:06:30. > :06:34.presenters earning ?150,000, two-thirds of them are men? I think

:06:35. > :06:38.and that's wrong and the Director-General made it clear that

:06:39. > :06:44.within less than five years he wants to address that and it's perfectly

:06:45. > :06:47.possible to make that commitment and to have those figures without having

:06:48. > :06:53.the names attached. You can publish bands and you can publish genders

:06:54. > :06:56.and you can publish it on an annual basis so that you can see whether

:06:57. > :07:00.there is inflation, to what extent it's going up. You don't have to

:07:01. > :07:04.publish individual names to have that kind of transparency. Do you

:07:05. > :07:08.think it is right that the pay of presenters is being published in

:07:09. > :07:14.this way? Yes, I do. Steve is wrong. This is public money. Everyone has

:07:15. > :07:19.to pay ?147 in licence fee however poor they are and we need to know

:07:20. > :07:24.what it is being used for and who is getting how much they are getting.

:07:25. > :07:29.Because you know, some presenters we know, will be getting five, ten

:07:30. > :07:33.times a teacher or much more than a member of Parliament or in many

:07:34. > :07:37.cases more than the Prime Minister. For jobs that are are not as

:07:38. > :07:41.responsible as teachers or members of Parliament or Prime Ministers. We

:07:42. > :07:45.need to know that. We need to know where the money is going and why

:07:46. > :07:49.should they be embarrassed? We know how much teachers are paid. We know

:07:50. > :07:54.how much each member of Parliament is paid. We know how much professors

:07:55. > :07:59.are paid. Why shouldn't we know how much presenters are paid? Tony Hall

:08:00. > :08:04.says he is satisfied that all of the 96 who are named are worth what they

:08:05. > :08:10.are being paid. Are you? Well, that's his judgment. We don't know

:08:11. > :08:15.yet. Is John Humphrys who comes on in the morning, four times a week

:08:16. > :08:20.perhaps, sneers at public servants, is he worth getting paid ten times

:08:21. > :08:25.that of classroom teacher? I don't think so. I think we're paying

:08:26. > :08:30.people far too much and it will be interesting to see exactly how much

:08:31. > :08:33.people are getting paid. I'd like to interview John Humphrys for example

:08:34. > :08:37.and ask him if he can justify getting hundreds of thousands of

:08:38. > :08:41.pounds for just coming on and asking questions, prepared for by

:08:42. > :08:46.researchers all the work being done by someone else? I don't think so. I

:08:47. > :08:50.think it's entirely out of proportion. There you have precisely

:08:51. > :08:55.the danger for the BBC of these salaries being published where you

:08:56. > :09:00.have politicians who need to be held to account, not just by the BBC, but

:09:01. > :09:06.by journalists across-the-board, who will be complaining about the kinds

:09:07. > :09:11.of salaries that their interviews are earning and it puts the BBC at a

:09:12. > :09:16.huge disadvantage because there is no transparency in ITN, we won't see

:09:17. > :09:19.the salaries of ITN or Sky presenters or Channel 4 presenters,

:09:20. > :09:24.it is just the BBC and that's going to undermine the BBC's ability to

:09:25. > :09:27.attract the best talent, the best journalists, the best news

:09:28. > :09:32.presenters and in the end, it's actually going to undermine the

:09:33. > :09:42.BBC's reputation for integrity and independence across the world and I

:09:43. > :09:46.would appeal to Lord Fawkes if you care about an independent BBC and if

:09:47. > :09:49.you care about keeping a popular BBC as well as a high quality

:09:50. > :09:53.broadcaster please think again about the consequences of what you are

:09:54. > :09:59.advocating. You have got to be very careful what you wish for. I think

:10:00. > :10:03.it is irresponsible of you to say we don't care about the BBC. I have

:10:04. > :10:06.backed it for years and it is a wonderful broadcaster. It is

:10:07. > :10:11.accountable. It is public money. The poorest people in the country have

:10:12. > :10:14.to pay ?147 of the it is a pox tax effectively. We need to know how

:10:15. > :10:20.that money is being used and it is being used effectively and the BBC

:10:21. > :10:24.up until now has not made things clear. We shouldn't have to wait

:10:25. > :10:28.until 2020 for women doing the same job on the BBC to be paid the same

:10:29. > :10:35.as men. It should happen now, straightaway. Lord Fawkes, Professor

:10:36. > :10:37.Stephen Barnet, thank you very much. The full details will be published

:10:38. > :10:48.at 11am. A big clean up is taking place in

:10:49. > :10:54.the village of Coverack in Cornwall. The village was divided in two by a

:10:55. > :10:57.four-foot torrent of water. It comes as storms across other

:10:58. > :11:01.parts of south of England caused problems elsewhere. In Kent flash

:11:02. > :11:05.flooding trapped people in their homes. The Government has won its

:11:06. > :11:08.High Court bid to obtain a permanent ban on industrial action by prison

:11:09. > :11:14.officers. The Ministry of Justice took up the case after the POA, the

:11:15. > :11:18.professional trade union for prison workers called on its members to

:11:19. > :11:22.take action short of a strike. That's a summary of the news. Let's

:11:23. > :11:26.catch up with the sport with Hugh. England and Scotland's famous old

:11:27. > :11:29.rivalry will be renewed on a bigger stage than ever before in women's

:11:30. > :11:33.football tonight when the two meet in the group stage of the yrn

:11:34. > :11:36.Championship. England are aiming to improve on what was a very

:11:37. > :11:43.impressive third place finish in the 2015 World Cup. Scotland are playing

:11:44. > :11:46.in their first major tournament, but lost key players to injury. Their

:11:47. > :11:51.head coach says it will be her proudest moment in football when

:11:52. > :11:57.they walk out on to the pitch. The biggest thing is to try to enjoy it.

:11:58. > :12:03.Try to embrace the experience. And that's been the message the whole

:12:04. > :12:08.journey now from when we qualified, all the preparations, it has been

:12:09. > :12:14.really about, you know, enjoy every single second. We have put in so

:12:15. > :12:17.much preparation as in physical work, so much work off the pitch and

:12:18. > :12:21.becoming a more together team and I'd like to say this is probably the

:12:22. > :12:24.most prepared we felt going into a tournament. So I think that's why

:12:25. > :12:32.there is a lot of belief and determination around this squad. The

:12:33. > :12:36.match kicks off at 7.45pm. There is full commentary on BBC Radio 5 Live.

:12:37. > :12:40.The first group will already be more than half-way around their opening

:12:41. > :12:47.round the Open. Royal Birkdale is preparing to host the tournament for

:12:48. > :12:52.the tenth time with one of the most memorable in 1998 when a 17-year-old

:12:53. > :12:55.Justin Rose chipped in to win the amateur prize and finish fourth.

:12:56. > :12:59.That set him on his way to a professional career of great success

:13:00. > :13:06.during which he won the US Open and Olympic gold, but he says he'd still

:13:07. > :13:11.love to win at Birkdale. It's the one tournament that I've dreamed

:13:12. > :13:15.about since I was that young boy and especially at Royal Birkdale you

:13:16. > :13:19.take an Open Championship and you take a major championship anywhere,

:13:20. > :13:23.but if they happen to line up at special venues, I feel fortunate I

:13:24. > :13:29.was able to win at Merion and for me here to do at Royal Birkdale would

:13:30. > :13:34.be a full circle moment based upon I guess sort of what I did in 1998. So

:13:35. > :13:45.yeah, it's a special venue and like you say, lots of good memories.

:13:46. > :13:49.More later. But that's it for now. We are back in North Kensington. The

:13:50. > :13:55.conversation has carried on while you were watching the news between

:13:56. > :13:57.survivors and medical health professionals, experts particularly

:13:58. > :14:01.in mental health because that's a huge thing that is coming through

:14:02. > :14:06.from the people that we talk to, continually, not just when we are on

:14:07. > :14:13.air in North Kensington, we are contact with survivors and residents

:14:14. > :14:16.on an almost daily basis. Joseph John is with us. He lived at

:14:17. > :14:24.Grenfell for six months on the second floor with his feonsy and

:14:25. > :14:28.son. Mahad is here, Joseph's brother-in-law was staying over on

:14:29. > :14:35.the night of the father. Let me introduce you to Dr Green. A

:14:36. > :14:43.psychologist has offered his services to those affected by the

:14:44. > :14:46.fire for free. We are joined by a child and adolescent psychiatrist

:14:47. > :14:54.and a GP. The conversation was calm and dignified, but there is a

:14:55. > :14:57.controlled anger because the people here are so frustrated that they are

:14:58. > :15:03.not getting access to what they need in order to help them cope with the

:15:04. > :15:06.trauma of surviving that fire. Some of the things that you were saying

:15:07. > :15:12.to our guests here. What were you saying?

:15:13. > :15:17.With these professionals that I have before us today, what I urge them to

:15:18. > :15:21.do is go and speak to the survivors where they are located. Where they

:15:22. > :15:25.are comfortable. Where their accommodation is from now. Take

:15:26. > :15:30.pictures. See it for yourself and write a letter on their behalf, from

:15:31. > :15:38.your department and your profession which you cover so you're saying you

:15:39. > :15:43.cover child department and you care for the children that have survived

:15:44. > :15:48.from the tragedy of Grenfell Tower well what you can do is write to the

:15:49. > :15:53.Secretary of State and for the minister of house to go say that

:15:54. > :16:03.these children who are survivors are kept in a poor condition.

:16:04. > :16:19.is that something you feel you can do? Absolutely. We worked with

:16:20. > :16:23.children for the last two and a half years in Kensington and we knew of

:16:24. > :16:26.the children and families. Is it surprising to you that there are

:16:27. > :16:42.four people here, if you're working on the ground, who have had no

:16:43. > :16:51.contact with anybody? The professionals are not communicating

:16:52. > :16:58.themselves. This situation has been put upon, people from authority have

:16:59. > :17:02.not come forward. We as professionals, we want to help and

:17:03. > :17:09.are willing to help. We are here because we want to see what we can

:17:10. > :17:13.offer as support. We will meet people like these families here, it

:17:14. > :17:21.is a complete no-brainer. We are here to support these families. But

:17:22. > :17:24.before you can help, you get yourself together like a community,

:17:25. > :17:29.you delegate, you don't just say because you want to help, you are

:17:30. > :17:33.here. If you get yourselves together, you get the points, bullet

:17:34. > :17:43.points, you do this, you do this, then you will be able to reach us.

:17:44. > :17:47.Doctor John Green, are you shocked that five weeks on, there are four

:17:48. > :17:53.people here who have not been able to access the mental health support

:17:54. > :17:57.they need? How can people access the mental health is the most important

:17:58. > :18:00.question. We have been sending people out to the hotels. It is

:18:01. > :18:05.difficult because people are being moved. We have been knocking on

:18:06. > :18:10.doors in the local area. Trying to reach people. We have got a single

:18:11. > :18:16.point of entry on these things. We have information going out from GPs.

:18:17. > :18:20.We have been going out looking for people, to make sure we can for them

:18:21. > :18:23.up. We are not just going to sit there and hope they come to us

:18:24. > :18:27.because one of the problems from having trauma is that it stops

:18:28. > :18:31.people coming forward because they are quite anxious about it and quite

:18:32. > :18:37.worried about the situation. Now is the time we begin to look. We have

:18:38. > :18:46.lost our dignity, we have lost our self-respect. Our self-esteem. We

:18:47. > :18:53.should be picked up. We need help. You should come forward, not us

:18:54. > :19:04.coming to you. But you have multiple needs as well. First, you need to

:19:05. > :19:14.come to people and make people happy and try to build up their lives from

:19:15. > :19:20.the loss. It is getting worse. By placing traumatised people in a

:19:21. > :19:29.hotel, a hotel is meant for people on holiday who are the who have paid

:19:30. > :19:35.for and experience. We are also having arguments with the public,

:19:36. > :19:41.people that are on holiday, because we are not at an appropriate,

:19:42. > :19:46.suitable accommodation. You need to understand this. I'm sorry you don't

:19:47. > :19:52.understand this. But you need to. You cannot do anything for our

:19:53. > :19:59.mental health until we know that there is a safe, secure, appropriate

:20:00. > :20:07.accommodation roof over our children and elderly and sick people's heads.

:20:08. > :20:10.If you can have... I appreciate it is not your responsibility to

:20:11. > :20:18.provide accommodation, but you can put pressure on the people whose job

:20:19. > :20:27.it is. Is Mahad Egal right, if they have that, they can then begin to

:20:28. > :20:33.repair the mental health? This is a man-made disaster, not a natural one

:20:34. > :20:39.and with natural disasters, people accept this was unavoidable.

:20:40. > :20:43.However, with a man-made disaster, the anger increases, the anxiety

:20:44. > :20:47.increases and I totally get this. But you can imagine from our point

:20:48. > :20:53.of view, we are all learning and understanding together. Yes, with

:20:54. > :20:59.natural disasters, communities are torn apart, they are kept together

:21:00. > :21:03.and here, with this situation, a lot of communities have been scattered

:21:04. > :21:07.everywhere. It is our responsibility and the government and the Council

:21:08. > :21:10.to come together and bring this community together and that is what

:21:11. > :21:15.we are willing to do and what we have been doing. I am going to pause

:21:16. > :21:19.it and thank you all because we have some more people to talk to and they

:21:20. > :21:28.are councillors from the local Council. Thank you for your time and

:21:29. > :21:33.your patience. Let me read some more comments.

:21:34. > :21:44.Bear with me. Tabernacle church was a hub for the Grenfell Tower

:21:45. > :21:48.surviving victims from the outside. This is from Councillor Young and

:21:49. > :21:55.pasta Derek deserves credit for his role. How can anyone cast aspersions

:21:56. > :21:59.on these people for wanting to be within the community that they had

:22:00. > :22:04.been living in four decades? Seeing these people showing their love for

:22:05. > :22:10.one another is an excellent example of human beings. Someone on Twitter

:22:11. > :22:13.says, the let down is painful and angering, to walk in the shoes must

:22:14. > :22:21.be indescribable. Keep those coming in. We have been reporting that

:22:22. > :22:25.tonight, Chelsea and Kensington Borough Council meet for the first

:22:26. > :22:29.time since the show buyer. -- since the fire.

:22:30. > :22:31.From almost day one, the fire here has been very

:22:32. > :22:43.With the Prime Minister and her government and the council

:22:44. > :22:50.Heavily criticised for their lethargic response in the early

:22:51. > :22:53.days. Criticised initially, Theresa May, for not meeting residents.

:22:54. > :22:56.Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party have been

:22:57. > :23:02.accused of using the Grenfell disaster to score points.

:23:03. > :23:09.We will talk to some protesters and said the meeting. A couple of

:23:10. > :23:14.worries that the meeting might be abandoned because of these planned

:23:15. > :23:20.protests. We asked for a meeting with the Council leader Elizabeth

:23:21. > :23:24.Campbell but she said no. We also asked for an interview with the

:23:25. > :23:45.London mare, Sadiq Khan and that was a no as well. We can speak to

:23:46. > :23:51.Councillor Atkinson, and Tony Devenish and Chris Williamson.

:23:52. > :23:58.Mamadu Rumayatu, Karim Elansari and Joseph John and Mahad Egal also

:23:59. > :24:07.here. How likely is this meeting to go ahead? I hope it does go ahead.

:24:08. > :24:10.Council leaders will put forward a series of questions and we need to

:24:11. > :24:15.make sure they do go through. Particularly around the housing

:24:16. > :24:18.issue. It has been dragged on and on. Until we solve the housing

:24:19. > :24:24.problem, nobody is going to get security. What is your message to

:24:25. > :24:29.protesters planning to be outside the building this evening? I

:24:30. > :24:32.absolutely understand people's anger. Residents have every right to

:24:33. > :24:37.be angry but the meeting must go ahead. Not so much to reconfirm the

:24:38. > :24:44.Tory leader because I think that's irrelevant. But I think they need to

:24:45. > :24:49.ask questions about the properties the Labour group have identified as

:24:50. > :24:52.being immediately available so I want to make sure they appoint a new

:24:53. > :24:59.chief Executive and the buck stops with him and we can then ask and

:25:00. > :25:03.demand answers. From your point of view, as a Labour councillor, what

:25:04. > :25:09.is the top of your priority list in specific details terms? I want to

:25:10. > :25:13.make rapid progress on permanent housing for people in the community.

:25:14. > :25:16.I'm also concerned that over the summer when Parliament goes into

:25:17. > :25:20.recess, we need to make sure people get the counselling they deserve.

:25:21. > :25:27.That has got nothing to do with Parliament, though? No, you are

:25:28. > :25:31.asking what my priorities are. But whether Parliament is in recess or

:25:32. > :25:38.not, those things can be sorted. Yes, they need to be. You say rapid

:25:39. > :25:42.progress on the offer of accommodation appropriate to people

:25:43. > :25:45.who live here, good, decent sized accommodation in this borough, are

:25:46. > :25:50.you setting some deadline for the Council? Those properties are

:25:51. > :25:55.available. Are you setting some deadline? I am hoping to get the

:25:56. > :25:58.Chief Executive by the night and by tomorrow I want him to give me

:25:59. > :26:01.answers as to whether these properties are available and whether

:26:02. > :26:09.we will use them and if not, I want to know why. Is that what you want

:26:10. > :26:14.here? Yes, because I know very well, I have lived in this borough for

:26:15. > :26:20.more than 45 years, South Kensington, Earls Court, the

:26:21. > :26:25.assembly properties... There are so many properties that should be for

:26:26. > :26:32.emergencies but what is this is not an emergency? You need to be taken

:26:33. > :26:37.care of and not just at the expense of other people homeless in the

:26:38. > :26:40.borough which is why we need other properties. We can't keep people

:26:41. > :26:50.hanging around in hotels unless they want to stay. Or being pushed the

:26:51. > :26:55.other burrows. Some people have disabilities, women are pregnant,

:26:56. > :27:02.children, people still going through the trauma, everyday, from the fire.

:27:03. > :27:08.It is outrageous people are being left in one room. There is more

:27:09. > :27:15.pressure on the family and there is more trauma. How much distrust would

:27:16. > :27:24.you say there is in your local Council? I wouldn't really say they

:27:25. > :27:34.are distressed, I would say they are confused. Distrust. I don't know, I

:27:35. > :27:44.think I ought to have trust for them but they have really let us down.

:27:45. > :27:47.Continuously. I have personally lost faith in the politicians, the local

:27:48. > :27:53.authority and central government. I have lost trust in all of them. The

:27:54. > :27:57.words do not mean anything to me. I want them held accountable for their

:27:58. > :28:02.words and make sure they lose their jobs and positions because what it

:28:03. > :28:08.is, unless you attack them where it hurts them, their salary, pension,

:28:09. > :28:13.and you disgrace them. You have to name and shame them. It means as,

:28:14. > :28:19.survivors, for nearly five weeks, we have been documenting and following

:28:20. > :28:28.up and asking each other. If I am being asked one question, that is

:28:29. > :28:31.Grenfell Tower, it was such a fight by health and safety, for people to

:28:32. > :28:37.live there. Who was that officer that signed it? His name is...

:28:38. > :28:44.INAUDIBLE He kept information from the

:28:45. > :28:52.Council. We don't know that. That will be raised in the enquiry. He is

:28:53. > :28:57.not here to defend himself. He should be here, accountable. He was

:28:58. > :29:01.a health and safety advisor and they should answer to the survivors. I do

:29:02. > :29:07.not understand why our government is not bringing these people the court

:29:08. > :29:10.or even being arrested for suspicion. Some people fled the

:29:11. > :29:18.country. It is not anger but frustration. We are not angry, we

:29:19. > :29:22.are frustrated. If we were angry, then you would have seen different

:29:23. > :29:27.actions from the community. But we are frustrated, disappointed. We

:29:28. > :29:32.have been let down continuously. You are letting down the children. In

:29:33. > :29:39.terms of the accountability, you will know there have been calls for

:29:40. > :29:43.effectively a snap election to scrap the councils of Kensington and

:29:44. > :29:46.Chelsea Borough Council, to have local elections to bring them

:29:47. > :29:53.forward one year to know. What you to that? That isn't going to happen.

:29:54. > :29:57.Is it a good idea? I don't think it is because we are going to be

:29:58. > :30:01.spending more weeks organising an election and what we need to be

:30:02. > :30:04.doing is to be answering some of your questions like where the

:30:05. > :30:10.accommodation comes from, the mental health support coming from, the

:30:11. > :30:14.Labour councillors know the area and we are asking these questions. If we

:30:15. > :30:19.are not part of the equation, there will be a further delay while

:30:20. > :30:23.elections are organised. You need to put pressure on the government in

:30:24. > :30:29.power at the moment. I am constantly asking questions, they are the same

:30:30. > :30:33.questions you are asking. I'm hoping we will get answers after the

:30:34. > :30:38.meeting tonight. We need someone in place duty-bound to answer those

:30:39. > :30:41.questions. Let me bring in Tony Devenish, a local councillor and you

:30:42. > :30:58.represent this borough. Well, I'm not sure that's correct.

:30:59. > :31:01.What is happening at the moment is over 200 public servants across

:31:02. > :31:06.Government and local authorities, Labour and Conservative and the

:31:07. > :31:09.independent City of London Local Government officers are working on

:31:10. > :31:13.this major crisis. Things haven't been as fast in the early days and

:31:14. > :31:16.both the Prime Minister, the out going council leader and the new

:31:17. > :31:21.council leader have apologised for that. We need to speed up. But a lot

:31:22. > :31:24.is happening. We promised to give temporary housing accommodation to

:31:25. > :31:29.each of those people who needed it. That has been offered. The dialogue

:31:30. > :31:33.is still on going. But it's a major crisis and I'm not going to sit here

:31:34. > :31:36.and give excuses. It's a very complex process. I understand what

:31:37. > :31:42.the lady and gentleman here are saying and we are working as a team,

:31:43. > :31:46.across London, it's not just the royal borough, Elizabeth Campbell is

:31:47. > :31:50.a very good public servant and only legally gets the job tonight, but

:31:51. > :31:54.she is committed to this area, a long-term resident and I'm sure

:31:55. > :32:01.things will get much better, yes, it was a slow start, but progress is

:32:02. > :32:07.being made. Let me bring in Chris Williamson.

:32:08. > :32:11.Where are we five weeks on? What do you say? Well, not for enough and

:32:12. > :32:16.what we are experiencing here is a legacy by goes back several decades

:32:17. > :32:21.of deregulation, privatisation and cuts. It can't be right that a

:32:22. > :32:26.combustible material was sanctioned to be put on a building, a tower

:32:27. > :32:31.block for insulation purposes and we need to get to the bottom of that.

:32:32. > :32:34.That's why we've called for a two-stage inquiry. We need to get to

:32:35. > :32:39.the bottom of how the fire started and why it spread so quickly? Why

:32:40. > :32:43.weren't the residents concerns listened to? People were making the

:32:44. > :32:46.point that they were fearful, it has been well documented now about the

:32:47. > :32:54.building not being fit for purpose and not being safe and worries about

:32:55. > :32:57.fire, but we need to genuinely learn lessons, often after disaster,

:32:58. > :33:01.people talk about learning lessons, but we don't seem to learn those

:33:02. > :33:05.lessons and the lessons we need to learn is how was it possible that

:33:06. > :33:10.those sorts of political decision were made going back those decades?

:33:11. > :33:15.So you are including previous Labour Governments? Of course. This is this

:33:16. > :33:20.liberal approach to the way in which the economy is organised and it has

:33:21. > :33:24.been all about privatising services, profiteering, looking at cutting

:33:25. > :33:35.corners, we have seen public services externalised. The

:33:36. > :33:39.management of this council in the borough has been given over to a

:33:40. > :33:44.company. Where we have continued with the system they had in place in

:33:45. > :33:48.199 when local authorities used to provide public housing, 40% of the

:33:49. > :33:51.population lived in council housing, I'm convinced that we wouldn't have

:33:52. > :33:57.had this tragedy, but this is something that the inquiry does need

:33:58. > :34:02.to get to the bottom of and what changes do we need to make to make

:34:03. > :34:05.sure we don't find ourselves in this appalling situation again. Do you

:34:06. > :34:09.have faith in the public inquiry? Well, I think what we need to make

:34:10. > :34:15.sure is that the public inquiry is fit for purpose. I would like to see

:34:16. > :34:19.a situation where there is a panel which is there to advice so we can

:34:20. > :34:24.make sure we get the right decision. We have got a more urgent pressing

:34:25. > :34:29.problem in relation to housing the survivors of Grenfell Tower right

:34:30. > :34:33.now. And I think, the borough has got plenty of reserves. It could

:34:34. > :34:37.acquire properties in the borough to make sure people are accommodated

:34:38. > :34:40.adequately. If emergency powers are needed for compulsory purchase

:34:41. > :34:43.powers for the local authority so that that can be done quickly then

:34:44. > :34:48.that should be dealt with as well, but we can't have a situation. To

:34:49. > :34:55.buy up houses that people already live in? There are plenty of empty

:34:56. > :34:58.dwellings that could be utilised and if emergency powers are made. It

:34:59. > :35:02.can't be right that survivors are forced to live in bed and breakfast

:35:03. > :35:10.accommodation. People aren't getting an evening meal. This is just

:35:11. > :35:14.appalling. People are being accommodated in inadequate. Some

:35:15. > :35:18.have been housed in accommodation that's due for demolition next year.

:35:19. > :35:23.This is appalling. It has got to be sorted out. We need urgent action

:35:24. > :35:26.right now to make sure that the survivors are cared for properly,

:35:27. > :35:29.but longer term we have got to learn those lessons to make sure that the

:35:30. > :35:35.political decisions that were allowed to be taken that led to this

:35:36. > :35:39.dreadful, appalling tragedy can never ever happen again. Do you

:35:40. > :35:42.think as Labour you are having any influence on this process? We are

:35:43. > :35:46.doing what we can and we are bringing as much pressure as we can

:35:47. > :35:50.using the Parliamentary process and I think certainly the Government

:35:51. > :35:54.have been found wanting, very badly wanting, and have recognised that

:35:55. > :35:59.they've fallen short and I think now there is a bit of a political

:36:00. > :36:02.consensus emerging that a different approach is needed. Thank you very

:36:03. > :36:07.much. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Chris Williamson,

:36:08. > :36:12.that's Labour's fire and emergency services spokesman, Tony Devenish, a

:36:13. > :36:14.Conservative member of the London Assembly and Robert Atkinson, the

:36:15. > :36:18.Labour leader on Kensington and Chelsea Council. The meeting is due

:36:19. > :36:26.to go ahead tonight. We will talk to the protesters before the end of the

:36:27. > :36:30.programme. Kat e-mailed to say, "I am a local resident. I feel strongly

:36:31. > :36:34.that this issue should not be diminish. Thank you for giving the

:36:35. > :36:39.community a voice where they have been so let down by their council

:36:40. > :36:43.and kofl recommendives." Steve said, "The local housing department have

:36:44. > :36:49.the names and addresses of all the survivors. All the specialists have

:36:50. > :36:53.to do is communicate with them." Elizabeth says, "I feel MPs should

:36:54. > :36:59.be spending a few weeks of the recess doing everything they can to

:37:00. > :37:03.help the people of Grenfell." ." Jono, "They want to be near their

:37:04. > :37:06.friends. That's not ungrateful. It is a very human request." Thank you

:37:07. > :37:14.for your time. Thank you very much for that are. That.

:37:15. > :37:22.That's the Labour leader handing his card. Guys please don't go without

:37:23. > :37:26.leaving your business cards and point of contact as I will do as a

:37:27. > :37:33.follow up. Just leave your contact details behind, please. Thank you.

:37:34. > :37:36.Now the news with Joanna. Thank you very much. This programme has

:37:37. > :37:40.learned that the type of cladding using on Grenfell Tower would have

:37:41. > :37:44.released 14 times the amount of heat that is allowed under a key

:37:45. > :37:48.Government safety test when burned. Research conducted by the University

:37:49. > :37:51.of Leeds suggests the energy emitted from the cladding and insulation

:37:52. > :37:55.would have been equivalent to burning 51 tonnes of pine wood. It

:37:56. > :37:59.added that the cladding's plastic core would have burned as quickly as

:38:00. > :38:02.petrol. The contractors who fitted the cladding say they passed all

:38:03. > :38:07.regulations. The BBC will publish details at 11am

:38:08. > :38:10.of how much it pays it's talent in its annual report for the first time

:38:11. > :38:14.the salaries of those who earn more than ?150,000 a year will be

:38:15. > :38:19.revealed. Only a third of the names on the list are women.

:38:20. > :38:22.The Supreme Court has ruled that a man arrested, but never charged in

:38:23. > :38:26.connection with an investigation into sexual offences against

:38:27. > :38:29.children can be named. He had sought to stop reporting of his name and

:38:30. > :38:36.other matters relating to him at a public trial. An anonymity order

:38:37. > :38:41.protecting his identity has been lifted. A big clean-up operation is

:38:42. > :38:45.taking place in Cornwall after flashfloods swept through the

:38:46. > :38:50.village of Coverack. Residents reported hailstones the size of 50

:38:51. > :38:54.pence pieces. Engineers will assess damage to roads and property in the

:38:55. > :38:59.area. It comes as storms across other parts of the south of England

:39:00. > :39:02.caused problems elsewhere. In Kent flash flooding trapped people in

:39:03. > :39:06.their homes. That's a summary of the news. Join me for BBC Newsroom live

:39:07. > :39:10.at 11am. The causes of the fire

:39:11. > :39:12.at Grenfell Tower will soon be investigated

:39:13. > :39:14.by a full public inquiry. All have been blamed in some

:39:15. > :39:25.way for the tragedy. But suspicion and distrust goes back

:39:26. > :39:28.much further than the events For years a policy of

:39:29. > :39:35.regeneration in the borough has Council tenants in Grenfell

:39:36. > :39:47.and other estates have long feared being kicked out to

:39:48. > :39:49.make way for wealthy Our reporter Jim Reed

:39:50. > :40:06.has been investigating. It's only just about a week ago

:40:07. > :40:09.I was able to come back Looking at it, you know,

:40:10. > :40:17.it's just like - it's a dystopia. Nahid Ashby lives on almost

:40:18. > :40:23.the very top floor of For more than 30 years she has lived

:40:24. > :40:30.here, a two bed flat The fire has shown outsiders just

:40:31. > :40:53.how close knit this community is. There is anger, too,

:40:54. > :40:56.about the tower, but also longer term, about the way for years many

:40:57. > :40:59.residents feel they have been You hear things, you see things,

:41:00. > :41:04.you're thinking there's something Part of that seems to come

:41:05. > :41:10.from the policy of regeneration. The cladding on Grenfell Tower

:41:11. > :41:15.was part of a much wider scheme. Under those plans, now on hold,

:41:16. > :41:18.the idea was to bulldoze three tower blocks just a few hundred metres

:41:19. > :41:22.from Grenfell itself, plus hundreds of low-rises and much

:41:23. > :41:26.of this green space. Regeneration is something

:41:27. > :41:28.which technically means to reconstruct something

:41:29. > :41:30.that has died. There is nothing dead

:41:31. > :41:32.about this area. And considering the amount

:41:33. > :41:39.of neglect and lack of investment that the local authority has done

:41:40. > :41:42.in the area, I still think it Under the most radical

:41:43. > :41:47.version of the plans, more than 800 extra homes could be

:41:48. > :41:50.built here, but residents say there was never a guarantee any

:41:51. > :41:53.of those would be for low The worry is some will be forced

:41:54. > :41:58.out, decanted in council speak, The majority of them will be bought

:41:59. > :42:09.off plan by property speculators and investors,

:42:10. > :42:12.and it's going to either be rented out to people at higher prices,

:42:13. > :42:15.or they will be left empty. The rest will be, you know,

:42:16. > :42:20.sent out of the borough. Because there isn't

:42:21. > :42:22.any room for them. They're not going to build

:42:23. > :42:27.enough social housing. I see them completely destroying

:42:28. > :42:30.the sense of community. We already live in one of the most

:42:31. > :42:33.densely populated areas in London. We don't actually need to have more

:42:34. > :42:40.people bunched into an area. And we saw what happens

:42:41. > :42:42.with the community The people, the first people

:42:43. > :42:49.who were on the road, That's, you know, that's

:42:50. > :42:58.what is going to get wiped out. The council has tried

:42:59. > :43:06.to defend its plans at a series Last week, its new leader did

:43:07. > :43:12.promise to do more in a borough with some of the most expensive land

:43:13. > :43:17.in the country. I have said that what the council

:43:18. > :43:21.will do is increase the amount of socially rented housing

:43:22. > :43:24.in this area. Others, though, say there is only

:43:25. > :43:36.so much the council can do. Shaun Bailey is a Conservative

:43:37. > :43:38.member of the London Assembly. He grew up just round

:43:39. > :43:42.the corner from here. Why is, when you speak to residents

:43:43. > :43:45.round here, like we have, why is regeneration such a dirty

:43:46. > :43:48.word, then, in these estates? Regeneration to most residents

:43:49. > :43:53.means gentrification. It means you're being moved out,

:43:54. > :43:56.it means your family won't be anywhere near you,

:43:57. > :44:00.and if you ally that to the general distrust of everybody in London,

:44:01. > :44:02.who has social housing inflicted on them, people worry, "OK,

:44:03. > :44:05.I'd like you to regenerate but am I actually going to get

:44:06. > :44:09.this flat back?" So residents are right to feel

:44:10. > :44:11.suspicious in some ways? They are, but I think

:44:12. > :44:14.they would feel less suspicious if the whole political class told

:44:15. > :44:18.a clearer, more truthful story. It is going to be tough to house

:44:19. > :44:21.everybody in Central London. There is 8.6 million people,

:44:22. > :44:24.set to grow to ten by 2030. Where are we going

:44:25. > :44:29.to put these people? The council are not being mean,

:44:30. > :44:33.there is simply nowhere to build, and that means land values here -

:44:34. > :44:37.I mean, it's like being in Monaco frankly, but people on the left

:44:38. > :44:40.are always saying you should be able So I would like to hear

:44:41. > :44:49.what the answer is from them. A lot of people who grew up here,

:44:50. > :44:52.who I went to school with, just behind that block,

:44:53. > :44:59.we had to leave because we could not live where our parents lived,

:45:00. > :45:02.because it was simply too expensive Critics of Kensington and Chelsea's

:45:03. > :45:05.housing policy say it It has ?270 million sitting

:45:06. > :45:09.in its own bank account. Its waiting list for social housing

:45:10. > :45:14.is almost 3,000 long. It is now developing

:45:15. > :45:16.these two old car parks But of the 84 new flats

:45:17. > :45:21.being built on council land, Another five will be

:45:22. > :45:26.for so-called affordable housing. Back in north Kensington,

:45:27. > :45:43.it would be a mistake to think Tania and Piers own this ex-council

:45:44. > :45:55.house right under the tower itself. Twice in the last ten years

:45:56. > :45:57.these houses have been Twice the local residents

:45:58. > :46:02.have fought back. Grenfell was an atrocity almost

:46:03. > :46:08.beyond belief and comprehension, but it directly arose from the fact

:46:09. > :46:11.that they ignored the wishes You know, they wanted

:46:12. > :46:19.to pretty the building up, so it didn't look like a big bit

:46:20. > :46:22.of public housing, towering, looming over the neighbourhood.

:46:23. > :46:29.Thus the cladding, you know. It's a direct, it's

:46:30. > :46:34.directly correlated. It's the same problem.

:46:35. > :46:38.The people in power do not listen to the people who they're

:46:39. > :46:44.supposed to represent. People whose interests they're

:46:45. > :46:48.supposedly looking after. At a council meeting this evening,

:46:49. > :46:52.Piers will be handing over a petition signed by more than 2,000

:46:53. > :46:55.resident, saying that plans to develop the wider estate should

:46:56. > :46:59.now be scrapped completely. What would you say to people

:47:00. > :47:03.who say, look, these houses, new social houses have to be built

:47:04. > :47:07.somewhere, so they have to find I think they - I mean,

:47:08. > :47:16.they can certainly do it in a slightly you know,

:47:17. > :47:19.less dramatic way. I mean, knocking down six hectares

:47:20. > :47:22.of an estate and four tower blocks is an incredibly dramatic

:47:23. > :47:26.thing to do. The thing is the council

:47:27. > :47:29.own the cards. Social housing tenants

:47:30. > :47:31.can be pushed about. If you own your own home,

:47:32. > :47:34.you can't be pushed about so much, but that shouldn't, it shouldn't

:47:35. > :47:37.be like that. Just because you own your own house

:47:38. > :47:40.doesn't mean to say you should be more secure than somebody

:47:41. > :47:42.who is a tenant. You know, a tenant has a right

:47:43. > :47:46.as much of a right to be there as anybody else.

:47:47. > :47:48.It's people's homes. The council says housing is now

:47:49. > :47:52.an absolute priority, and it will work closely with local

:47:53. > :47:55.people on this estate and beyond. Letters came in the post the week

:47:56. > :47:58.after the Grenfell fire, saying the regeneration scheme

:47:59. > :48:01.for the wider area is now on hold, but for the moment, at least,

:48:02. > :48:05.it hasn't been cancelled. Ali is 30 years old and has

:48:06. > :48:11.lived here all his life. His frustration with the process

:48:12. > :48:15.means he says, half joking, that he might stand

:48:16. > :48:17.for council himself. Things are dictated to us,

:48:18. > :48:21.rather than our feedback being taken into consideration,

:48:22. > :48:23.our concerns being dealt with in a much more sympathetic way.

:48:24. > :48:28.Again, it is arrogance. You guys live here, we know

:48:29. > :48:31.what's best for you. You don't think you're

:48:32. > :48:34.being listened to? Without a doubt, I know I'm

:48:35. > :48:41.not being listened to. Any efforts which I do make,

:48:42. > :48:44.they get pushed aside. I guess, playing devil's

:48:45. > :48:47.advocate on it, 10 million The population of the city is meant

:48:48. > :48:53.to increase over the next 20 years. The council would say these houses

:48:54. > :48:56.have to go somewhere, so maybe people need to accept

:48:57. > :49:00.they might not be able to have a big communal garden

:49:01. > :49:03.like this in the future. This just might be something that

:49:04. > :49:05.has to go, that is just Then I'll play devil's advocate

:49:06. > :49:13.as well on that side. If that's the case, let's go destroy

:49:14. > :49:16.Hyde Park and build houses there. Of course we're not going to go

:49:17. > :49:21.destroy Hyde Park, it's a treasure. What regeneration in London

:49:22. > :49:24.is is knocking down houses and building penthouses.

:49:25. > :49:28.That's the reality of it. When studio flats are being priced

:49:29. > :49:31.at 625 and being called affordable, how does that help the overgrowing

:49:32. > :49:35.population of London? That is a question politicians not

:49:36. > :49:38.just in this borough, but across the rest of the UK must

:49:39. > :49:42.find an answer to. Just as the causes of the Grenfell

:49:43. > :49:46.fire are complicated, so the reaction might change the way

:49:47. > :49:49.we think about homes, about housing, and even

:49:50. > :49:56.about community in the future. An investigation by the London

:49:57. > :50:00.Assembly in 2015 found that when estates are regenerated,

:50:01. > :50:03.there is on average a ten-fold increase in private housing

:50:04. > :50:06.and a net reduction Let's explore that a bit more

:50:07. > :50:13.with some people who should know all about what regeneration means

:50:14. > :50:16.in this part of the world. Eve Allison

:50:17. > :50:19.has been a Conservative councillor here for the last three years

:50:20. > :50:21.and sits on the local housing Conservative Tony Devenish

:50:22. > :50:26.is still here - he sits on the London Assembly's

:50:27. > :50:30.regeneration committee. Eve Allison - regeneration

:50:31. > :50:32.to people here means knocking down the homes of poor

:50:33. > :50:51.people to build homes for rich That should not be the case. I have

:50:52. > :50:54.seen some changes in London and many people including myself are not

:50:55. > :50:58.happy with the scope of the changes because it fractures communities and

:50:59. > :51:02.it looks as if it is social and ethnic cleansing. The reason why

:51:03. > :51:10.those terms are used because on the whole, people at the bottom of the

:51:11. > :51:15.economic bracket, we or they are the ones that are in that specific

:51:16. > :51:19.bracket. We can't all work with the city so we look for where we can

:51:20. > :51:26.afford homes, we look for where we can afford properties. I am the only

:51:27. > :51:33.one out of 37 Conservative councillors who actually lives in

:51:34. > :51:38.social housing. Is it fair that for some people, regeneration means

:51:39. > :51:43.kicking poor people out of their homes in order to knock down those

:51:44. > :51:48.homes to build expensive flats for rich people? I wouldn't put it that

:51:49. > :51:52.way. We have do pay to build a regenerated estate and the reality

:51:53. > :51:56.is, we need to build more housing of all ten years from the cheapest

:51:57. > :52:00.social housing, to get people who need it in housing but we also need

:52:01. > :52:06.to build housing which is affordable across every tenure. It is not

:52:07. > :52:11.moving as fast as it should be. The Mayor of London has had millions of

:52:12. > :52:16.pounds for the government and he is foot dragging. We need to work

:52:17. > :52:19.together across London but we can't keep the private sector out, the

:52:20. > :52:23.private sector has to be at the centre building those homes. It is a

:52:24. > :52:31.complex system and we need to do more. At least hopefully this will

:52:32. > :52:37.make more people get on with the job of building more homes.

:52:38. > :52:46.Elizabeth Campbell has made it clear that housing is her priority.

:52:47. > :52:50.Involving finding more housing stock and where it they can build it with

:52:51. > :52:54.private and government support. Councillors have put all

:52:55. > :52:55.regeneration schemes in north Kensington on hold for now. Thank

:52:56. > :53:06.you for your time. Tonight, the first meeting of the

:53:07. > :53:11.full Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council since the fire with a new

:53:12. > :53:14.leader in officially installed. We had from a Labour Council earlier

:53:15. > :53:17.and said there are many things they need to discuss and they really want

:53:18. > :53:29.this meeting the go-ahead. There is going to be a protest outside.

:53:30. > :53:31.We can speak now to Tomassina Hassel,

:53:32. > :53:34.a resident who was evacuated from her home on the Lancaster West

:53:35. > :53:36.estate and has been living in a hotel ever since.

:53:37. > :53:39.Antony Hamilton, a 24-year-old student who lives in west London.

:53:40. > :53:41.He was at the last Grenfell protest outside Kensington

:53:42. > :53:44.and Chelsea town hall, and will be there again tonight -

:53:45. > :53:46.he's also a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

:53:47. > :53:58.And Sue Caro, a campaign coordinator for Justice for Grenfell.

:53:59. > :54:06.What you want to say to the Council? They haven't responded at all, they

:54:07. > :54:09.have shown a lack of care and understanding of the community.

:54:10. > :54:12.Almost every system or unwillingness to actually listen to us and

:54:13. > :54:21.cooperate with us. It is undermining. Are you a professional

:54:22. > :54:26.protester? No. Why are you here tonight? I figured is important we

:54:27. > :54:34.point the blame where it lives. -- lies. It is not your area? It is

:54:35. > :54:44.not, I have friends who live nearby. I have lived on estates on this --

:54:45. > :54:52.like this all my life. We shouldn't allow this to happen again. We have

:54:53. > :54:57.some residents here. What do you think about people from outside the

:54:58. > :55:02.area joining the protest? I think it's important to keep the focus on

:55:03. > :55:06.the tragedy, so the people that have lost their lives from Grenfell

:55:07. > :55:11.Tower, the wider community affected and displaced as a result. I think

:55:12. > :55:16.from other groups to come and make it about anything other than that, I

:55:17. > :55:20.think shows hidden motives. So for people to be making it about Tory

:55:21. > :55:24.rule or trying to get Theresa May out, I think that splits the

:55:25. > :55:29.message. If they are using it to promote social housing policy change

:55:30. > :55:33.and actually get the Council and the landlord to respond in a way that

:55:34. > :55:41.they should, I'm all for it. I don't know if you heard what Anthony said,

:55:42. > :55:44.his motivation for being here. Yes, this certainly affects anyone in

:55:45. > :55:47.social housing and if that is something that other groups are

:55:48. > :55:52.campaigning for, I would welcome that. But if it is purely political,

:55:53. > :55:55.in terms of trying to get out political parties or leadership

:55:56. > :56:02.changes right at the top of government, that's not part of the

:56:03. > :56:05.agenda we would endorse. What is your view? Exactly what Marcus said,

:56:06. > :56:10.it should just be about Grenfell and the surrounding blocks. At the

:56:11. > :56:16.moment, anything else is not right now, we need to focus on this. You

:56:17. > :56:22.absolutely don't want it to be hijacked or taken over? No violence,

:56:23. > :56:25.no aggression, just a peaceful, silent march whatever it is, just

:56:26. > :56:34.keep the focus on Grenfell because that is what it is about. What is

:56:35. > :56:39.your motivation? I am part of the campaign, justice for Grenfell and

:56:40. > :56:42.our concern is that the protest is entirely peaceful, that there is no

:56:43. > :56:46.violence because we feel if there is, it will play into the hands of

:56:47. > :56:51.those who want to end public sympathy for what has happened at

:56:52. > :56:55.Grenfell. I feel also that the issue of not revealing the numbers which

:56:56. > :57:00.is still a huge issue for the community is another way of trying

:57:01. > :57:05.to manage down public sympathy and empathy so we don't want anything to

:57:06. > :57:09.happen outside the Council meeting tonight that will end in violence.

:57:10. > :57:15.We want the Council to resign, that is our motivation. A lot of local

:57:16. > :57:21.residents are bringing our children, our pets, we really want to focus on

:57:22. > :57:24.our needs at the moment. In the long run, we can maybe expand to the more

:57:25. > :57:27.political issues behind this but ultimately, our needs are not being

:57:28. > :57:33.addressed and this is important to us. That has been clear from the

:57:34. > :57:37.people we have spoken to. Five weeks on, there's immediate needs are not

:57:38. > :57:41.being addressed. We are bringing our families and children so we're not

:57:42. > :57:42.looking for any violence and anyone coming to create that will not be

:57:43. > :57:57.welcomed. Thank you all. Pastor Derrick, thank you for

:57:58. > :58:03.inviting a Senior. This message says, much love and respect the

:58:04. > :58:09.Pastor Derrick and his team. We are here for the survivors and we want

:58:10. > :58:16.to help them and be a voice for them. These are human beings and

:58:17. > :58:41.they must be treated as such. Thank you. BBC Newsroom Live is next.

:58:42. > :58:44.Let's come at it from another angle. He might be the Messiah. Come on!

:58:45. > :58:48.Madonna has launched her own range of booted orphans.