08/08/2017

:00:19. > :00:21.Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:22. > :00:25.Experts tell us that some women not seeking treatment early enough

:00:26. > :00:38.I don't know how long this woman was hiding cancer. Her breast was

:00:39. > :00:43.rotten. Also on the programme -

:00:44. > :00:47.the 20-year-old British model who was allegedly held captive

:00:48. > :00:51.by a gang in Italy was told she would be sold in the Middle East

:00:52. > :01:01."for sex", according to her lawyer. She was told that people were there

:01:02. > :01:06.watching her and ready to kill her if she tried anything. So she

:01:07. > :01:09.thought that the best idea was to go along with it.

:01:10. > :01:13.We'll talk to a close friend of Chloe Ayling who's spoken

:01:14. > :01:16.to the model since she returned to the UK.

:01:17. > :01:19.And we'll hear calls to ban the use of police

:01:20. > :01:32.Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.

:01:33. > :01:34.Throughout the programme the latest breaking news

:01:35. > :01:41.A little later we'll hear how the former boss of GCHQ -

:01:42. > :01:44.Britain's electronic surveillance agency - is calling for children

:01:45. > :01:50.to spend more time online to help save the country.

:01:51. > :01:53.Robert Hannigan says instead of allowing kids to "mooch"

:01:54. > :01:58.around the streets - parents should encourage them

:01:59. > :02:02.to have more screen time and that it's not a wasted life.

:02:03. > :02:07.Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

:02:08. > :02:10.use the hashtag Victoria live and If you text, you will be charged

:02:11. > :02:15.The lawyer for a British model who was allegedly held captive

:02:16. > :02:18.by a gang in Italy has been giving more details about the case.

:02:19. > :02:20.Francesco Peschi says Chloe Ayling, who's 20 and from South London,

:02:21. > :02:23.was told by her kidnappers that she would be sold

:02:24. > :02:30.He said she was acting under duress, when she was seen shopping

:02:31. > :02:37.with her captor before she was freed.

:02:38. > :02:47.Gavin Lee is following the story in Milan. Fill us in on the details

:02:48. > :02:51.from Chloe Ayling's lawyer? The point Francesco is making, he said

:02:52. > :02:56.there was a lot of misreporting, there are lots of facts in the case

:02:57. > :02:58.that he wanted to make sure there is clarity on, partly because he

:02:59. > :03:01.believes some British newspapers in particular have started to raise

:03:02. > :03:06.questions about whether she was complicit. He said categorically,

:03:07. > :03:10.this is something his clients, the police, the chief investigators

:03:11. > :03:14.believe she's gone through the most psychological and physical trauma

:03:15. > :03:19.and torment. So from the route to the fruit, as he sees it, what

:03:20. > :03:25.happened is that she arrived in Milan here on July 10th. The next

:03:26. > :03:30.day she saw a photo shoot advert, a fake one, close to Central Station.

:03:31. > :03:33.She went into a room. She saw three men very briefly, all had

:03:34. > :03:37.balaclavas, one put a hand on her mouth to stop her screaming, very

:03:38. > :03:41.quickly she was injected with something. We heard yesterday that

:03:42. > :03:48.it was a ketamine drug. She was placed in a bag, taken 120 miles in

:03:49. > :03:53.a car. It was a place close to the French Alps, there is one remote

:03:54. > :03:57.area. One man lives there. He told us if somebody is being held there

:03:58. > :04:04.he would not have heard. What happened to here in there is that he

:04:05. > :04:08.said she was tied to a box for two days and slowly released as she

:04:09. > :04:17.became more trusted by her captors. She is what he told me. -- this is

:04:18. > :04:24.what he told me. She was told she was going to be sold to somebody in

:04:25. > :04:29.the Middle East for sex. She was told that people were there watching

:04:30. > :04:37.her and ready to kill her if she tried anything. So she thought that

:04:38. > :04:46.the best idea was to go along with it and to be nice in a way to her

:04:47. > :04:51.captor Because he told her he wanted to release her somehow and some

:04:52. > :04:58.time. I've been to this remote place, it's a place where tourists

:04:59. > :05:01.go because there are bears, wolves, at night-time it's particularly

:05:02. > :05:07.unpleasant because of the sound scape of the place. In the farmhouse

:05:08. > :05:11.at the bottom, the bottom floor where she was held to a chest of

:05:12. > :05:15.drawers, she was slowly released with time but was told if she left

:05:16. > :05:20.she'd be killed. Here is the thing - the day before she was released,

:05:21. > :05:24.after seven days, not six, she was seen in a nearby village with her

:05:25. > :05:29.captor and that she was buying shoes, groceries together. What the

:05:30. > :05:33.lawyer has said is categorically, this was absolutely part of her way

:05:34. > :05:38.of surviving, she was told if she moved she would be killed. In fact,

:05:39. > :05:44.she was told the next day she'd probably be sold in the Middle East

:05:45. > :05:48.for around ?230,000. That was the idea they were trying to raise on an

:05:49. > :05:52.auction site, this group called the Black death group and what happened

:05:53. > :05:56.was the alleged chief suspect who was Polish who spent time living in

:05:57. > :06:01.Oldbury in the West Midlands, he said, if you stick with me, I will

:06:02. > :06:04.release you. Here is the other thing that was different. Yesterday he was

:06:05. > :06:09.claiming, according to the lawyers, that he released her because she had

:06:10. > :06:13.a two-year-old baby, a son, he's since changed his statement we are

:06:14. > :06:17.told by the police, he said he released her because he felt an

:06:18. > :06:20.affinity with her. She was driven to the consulate. He went in with her,

:06:21. > :06:24.she was then questioned there. She spent three weeks after that in

:06:25. > :06:28.Italy according to the lawyer as well and only came back on Sunday

:06:29. > :06:32.after helping police with their enquiries, so she's had two days

:06:33. > :06:38.back in the UK and has spoken briefly, reading a statement about

:06:39. > :06:45.her ordeal. In terms of the Italian police investigation, where do they

:06:46. > :06:48.say they're up to in this? We think according to the lawyers and the

:06:49. > :06:53.police statements, there are between three and four people who were

:06:54. > :06:57.hiding Chloe in this remote area. There were two cars, a Mercedes with

:06:58. > :07:01.British registration plates seen by the neighbours there, there was also

:07:02. > :07:06.a Volvo with Polish registration plates, that was the one that drove

:07:07. > :07:11.to the consulate. They're looking at the moment at exactly how big this

:07:12. > :07:15.group is, that there are other people apparently they've suggested

:07:16. > :07:24.they could sell on online sites although nothing's come to fruition.

:07:25. > :07:28.The group seemed to be selling on pornographic websites, pictures from

:07:29. > :07:35.the porn shoots and not the victims, it was then questioned, was this

:07:36. > :07:42.some sort of scam group. This will take a long time to work out. It

:07:43. > :07:47.will take six months to go through court. Just being here, in the

:07:48. > :07:51.fashion capital of the world in Milan, there are lots of young

:07:52. > :07:54.models drawn to this place, modelling agencies I've spoken to

:07:55. > :07:58.over the past day or so say this is not the formula that you would go

:07:59. > :08:04.through. What would happen is that you would always be escorted from

:08:05. > :08:07.the UK to Milan if ever there was a proper photo shoot deal. They are

:08:08. > :08:11.warning if ever women are in a similar position, this is not the

:08:12. > :08:16.way to do it. This is for Chloe's sake, given what we are hearing, is

:08:17. > :08:23.a most horrendous ordeal. Thank you very much indeed. About 9.

:08:24. > :08:25.45, we'll talk to one of Chloe's close friends who's spoken to her

:08:26. > :08:27.since she returned to the UK. The Victoria Derbyshire Programme

:08:28. > :08:36.has learned that a number of women in the UK from South Asian

:08:37. > :08:41.backgrounds who have cancer hide it because of a perceived

:08:42. > :08:43.stigma about the disease. they're worried cultural

:08:44. > :08:46.taboos are leading to more Some women even hide

:08:47. > :08:50.their diagnosis from family and friends out of shame -

:08:51. > :08:52.in one case a woman only sought treatment

:08:53. > :09:00.when her breast was rotten. More than 40 maternity units in

:09:01. > :09:05.England closed to new admissions according to data obtained by

:09:06. > :09:09.Labour. 42 out of 96 Trusts that responded to a Freedom of

:09:10. > :09:12.Information request said they'd shut maternity wards temporarily on 382

:09:13. > :09:16.occasions. Labour has blamed staffing shortages but the

:09:17. > :09:28.Government says that is misleading and closures are well rehearsed.

:09:29. > :09:32.Norfolk police have said a victim was stabbed in the head and neck

:09:33. > :09:37.whilst walking his doings in the woodland, he was 82 and seen as

:09:38. > :09:44.well-mannered, well-natured and well-liked. Officers have appealed

:09:45. > :09:55.for information. Police in West London are appealing for help to

:09:56. > :09:59.find a person who appeared to push a man into a pedestrian into the road.

:10:00. > :10:03.The oncroping bus is forced to swerve into the next lane to avoid

:10:04. > :10:08.hitting her. The bus stopped and passengers tended to the woman who

:10:09. > :10:11.received minor injuries. An appeal has been launch for witnesses or

:10:12. > :10:16.anyone who recognises the jogger, described as white, in his early to

:10:17. > :10:22.mid 30s with brown eyes and short brown hair. Anyone with information

:10:23. > :10:30.is asked to call police. They can also call Crimestoppers. Crime stop

:10:31. > :10:33.Britain's most senior judge has told the government it must provide more

:10:34. > :10:35.clarity about how UK law will be developed after Brexit.

:10:36. > :10:38.Currently, UK legislation is subject to rulings made

:10:39. > :10:42.Lord Neuberger said Parliament must be "very clear" in telling

:10:43. > :10:45.the judges what to do about decisions of this court

:10:46. > :10:50.Another victim of the 11 September 2001 attack

:10:51. > :10:53.on the World Trade Center in New York City has been identified

:10:54. > :10:56.The name of the man is being withheld at

:10:57. > :11:00.The last time a victim was identified was March 2015.

:11:01. > :11:02.Only 60% of the victims of the attack have

:11:03. > :11:13.There are calls to ban the use of tasers on anyone under 18.

:11:14. > :11:15.The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health say the devices

:11:16. > :11:19.are harmful and should not be used on children - and adds that Tasering

:11:20. > :11:21.a minor contravenes the UN Conventions on the Rights

:11:22. > :11:32.The youngest child to be fired at with a taser is thought to be 14

:11:33. > :11:35.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

:11:36. > :11:38.Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

:11:39. > :11:41.use the hashtag Victoria Live and if you text, you will be charged

:11:42. > :11:45.Let's get some sport now with Leah and so near yet so far

:11:46. > :11:49.for Britain's Laura Muir at the world athletics last night?

:11:50. > :11:51.It was another disappointing night in terms of medals

:11:52. > :12:09.She said it was gut wrenching. She was overtaken at the end. She missed

:12:10. > :12:14.out by 700th of a second at the finish line. It was agonisingly

:12:15. > :12:18.close for the 24-year-old who had actually recovered from a stress

:12:19. > :12:25.fracture in her foot in June and, even though she said she was gutted

:12:26. > :12:28.she said she gave it her all. Another disappointing night

:12:29. > :12:36.generally for Britain in terms of medals? Yes, Sophie Hitchon left the

:12:37. > :12:42.hammer cage in tears, despite giving it her best throw. She came seventh.

:12:43. > :12:46.She couldn't hold her emowses back. It shows the passion. 12 months ago

:12:47. > :12:52.from last night, she won bronze in Rio but it wasn't meant to be for

:12:53. > :12:59.her this time around. She's a former ballerina. That meant no British

:13:00. > :13:07.medals but they of the men, as you are seeing, made the 200 metres

:13:08. > :13:16.semi-finals. Danny Talbot got a personal best.

:13:17. > :13:18.Justin Gatlin's agent has been speaking to the BBC

:13:19. > :13:20.in the wake of the booing after his 100 metre win.

:13:21. > :13:29.Lots of talk about this. People think the American strinter

:13:30. > :13:33.shouldn't have been taking part in this because he served for doping

:13:34. > :13:38.twice. The IAAF reinstated him. They say he hasn't broken any rules this

:13:39. > :13:41.time around but his agent has spoken out, saying that everyone should

:13:42. > :13:45.basically get over the fact that Gatlin served the drugs bans and

:13:46. > :13:52.he's not particularly happy with Lord Coe either. Have a listen. I

:13:53. > :13:57.take offence to, with all due respect, Lord Coe, he is a part of

:13:58. > :14:01.the IAAF who set the rules and punishment and when you serve the

:14:02. > :14:05.punishment you are supposed to be reinstated, which these athletes who

:14:06. > :14:08.have offended and abused some of the rules have, and if you don't want

:14:09. > :14:16.them in, you should change the rules. You don't allow them in and

:14:17. > :14:20.still condemn them. We are talking about 11 years, the doping ban, so

:14:21. > :14:25.at some point we all have to move past this.

:14:26. > :14:28.And it seems like some of the athletes have been laid

:14:29. > :14:40.Yes, they are staying at one of the team hotels in London and have come

:14:41. > :14:43.down with gastroenteritis. The hotel will investigate the origins of the

:14:44. > :14:46.illness but they say they believe the hotel was not the source of the

:14:47. > :14:54.bug and they've made sure anyone affected isn't in contact with other

:14:55. > :14:57.guests but it's hit some big names, including Isaac Makwala from

:14:58. > :15:04.Botswana who missed the 200 metres last night. He's a favourite for the

:15:05. > :15:08.400 metres too. Several other German and Canadian athletes staying at the

:15:09. > :15:15.hotel fell ill last week too. We'll have to see that one. More at 9. 30.

:15:16. > :15:23.In half an hour's time we will talk to a close friend of the 20-year-old

:15:24. > :15:25.British model who is back in the UK after allegedly being kidnapped in

:15:26. > :15:30.Milan. That is at 9.45am. This programme has learned that

:15:31. > :15:32.a number of UK women from South Asian backgrounds

:15:33. > :15:35.who have cancer, hide it, because of a perceived

:15:36. > :15:40.stigma about the disease. Researchers say they're worried that

:15:41. > :15:43.cultural taboos are leading to more women dying prematurely

:15:44. > :15:49.in the South Asian community. We've discovered that some

:15:50. > :15:52.hide their diagnosis from family and friends out of shame

:15:53. > :15:55.and in one case a woman only sought treatment when her

:15:56. > :15:57.breast was "rotten". Our reporter Amber Haque has been

:15:58. > :16:00.looking into what needs to be done She said she was going to refuse

:16:01. > :16:07.chemo because God gave it to her. The reluctance to go

:16:08. > :16:11.for a smear is deemed to be like you're being unfaithful,

:16:12. > :16:15.it is like infidelity. I've become aware of South Asian

:16:16. > :16:19.women who have had a diagnosis of cancer and they've

:16:20. > :16:22.kept it very hidden. She says, "You've been given cancer

:16:23. > :16:26.and you can cover this up now." A woman who came with a rotten

:16:27. > :16:29.breast and it was smelling so much that you couldn't even sit

:16:30. > :16:37.next to it. Research suggests that one in two

:16:38. > :16:39.of us will get cancer And some people, particularly

:16:40. > :16:45.in the South Asian community, They are not going for cancer

:16:46. > :16:52.screening, and in some instances, they are even

:16:53. > :16:53.hiding their diagnosis. Because it's a shame,

:16:54. > :17:01.it's a death sentence And there's a concern

:17:02. > :17:07.that belief is causing The breasts aren't just seen

:17:08. > :17:11.as another part of your body. Therefore, anyone touching them

:17:12. > :17:17.is doing it in a sexual way. This is from the perspective

:17:18. > :17:31.of the husband. Praveena stumbled upon a lump

:17:32. > :17:35.in her breast when she was 36. She grew up in a strict Indian

:17:36. > :17:37.community, where even talking about the disease was seen

:17:38. > :17:42.as something shameful. When she was diagnosed,

:17:43. > :17:47.she decided to hide it. So, a lot of it, in terms

:17:48. > :17:54.of not telling my family, I didn't tell them because I just

:17:55. > :17:57.thought if people hear the fact that I've got cancer,

:17:58. > :17:59.they're going to think Maybe I lived a bad life,

:18:00. > :18:04.therefore God has punished me And I just didn't want to be

:18:05. > :18:09.associated with that. And so, hiding it was

:18:10. > :18:14.the obvious choice for me. It was lonely.

:18:15. > :18:16.I won't deny that. I was going to chemotherapy

:18:17. > :18:25.sessions on my own. I drove

:18:26. > :18:26.myself there and back. And I had very dark

:18:27. > :18:29.days because of that. I suppose I probably also went

:18:30. > :18:34.through some form of depression. In recent years now,

:18:35. > :18:44.I've become aware of South Asian women who have had a diagnosis

:18:45. > :18:47.of breast cancer or cervical cancer and they have kept it very hidden,

:18:48. > :18:50.they have hit a in their homes. Pooja is the lead researcher

:18:51. > :18:52.for a team called CLAHRC. They're funded by a research

:18:53. > :18:55.arm of the NHS and work with public and professionals

:18:56. > :18:58.on health inequalities. She has spent the past few years

:18:59. > :19:01.looking at attitudes towards cancer She says she's worried by some

:19:02. > :19:06.of the things she has heard Some of the other conversations I've

:19:07. > :19:11.had with Bangladeshi women that really surprised me,

:19:12. > :19:19.and it's quite sad really, they would hide the shame

:19:20. > :19:22.in their eyes of having a cancer diagnosis because they felt it would

:19:23. > :19:24.influence their children's future. And that potentially, no one

:19:25. > :19:27.would want to marry their children, And some woman went to the extent

:19:28. > :19:35.of not even having treatments, because if they went for treatment,

:19:36. > :19:38.people will now that they have had cancer because they

:19:39. > :19:40.might lose their hair. Why do you think going

:19:41. > :19:43.for cancer screening is such The reluctance to go

:19:44. > :19:47.for a smear is that you don't For the husband, it's deemed

:19:48. > :19:53.to be like you are being You've been tainted

:19:54. > :20:06.by someone else all almost. I've also heard through other

:20:07. > :20:10.friends in conversation about how sometimes people felt the smear test

:20:11. > :20:14.will actually stretch them and therefore that's not

:20:15. > :20:16.something they want to do. As shocking as that may seem,

:20:17. > :20:19.these are real things that actually When it came to South Asian women,

:20:20. > :20:27.there were some specific issues that actually were raised

:20:28. > :20:29.within this work. For example, there was more

:20:30. > :20:39.of an issue around shame, an issue around modesty and about

:20:40. > :20:42.the influence from the males and If they didn't think that women

:20:43. > :20:46.should be going for screening, What are some of the more shocking

:20:47. > :20:49.misconceptions you have I think the fact that cancer doesn't

:20:50. > :20:54.happen to South Asian women. As well as that, another aspect

:20:55. > :20:57.when it came to going for smears, was about women losing

:20:58. > :20:59.their virginity by And then again, not being able

:21:00. > :21:11.to get married because there would be proof that they weren't

:21:12. > :21:17.a virgin any more. These were quite surprising, I

:21:18. > :21:20.think, conversations that I've had. It's hard to say just how

:21:21. > :21:22.serious the problem is because very little information has

:21:23. > :21:24.been collected on ethnicity Research we do have has shown Asian

:21:25. > :21:32.women with breast cancer have poorer survival,

:21:33. > :21:35.and are more likely to present with advanced tumours

:21:36. > :21:41.when they do get diagnosed. Experts tell us they're concerned

:21:42. > :21:43.that cultural stigmas are leading I worked in the cancer

:21:44. > :21:52.field for many years, maybe 30 years or more,

:21:53. > :21:54.and over the time I've seen a lot of Asian women,

:21:55. > :21:57.and the sad thing is that because of the ignorance

:21:58. > :22:00.of not presenting early, not following or going

:22:01. > :22:04.through the screening programme or not examining their breasts,

:22:05. > :22:06.they are presented late So then there is a stigma attached

:22:07. > :22:15.that when you have got cancer, Do we know for a fact that

:22:16. > :22:19.South Asian women are having poorer I'd say yeah, the literature does

:22:20. > :22:28.highlight and the evidence suggests that South Asian women are more

:22:29. > :22:31.likely to have worse outcomes. And would it be fair to say that

:22:32. > :22:34.some of those deaths are avoidable? Yeah, you could say that some

:22:35. > :22:44.of them are preventable because if they had of been

:22:45. > :22:46.for their screening it may have been picked up

:22:47. > :22:49.when the cancer was minute. The concern is that women

:22:50. > :22:50.are suffering unnecessarily. South Asian women are more

:22:51. > :22:53.likely to be from poor and deprived backgrounds,

:22:54. > :22:54.meaning the levels of Charities and local authorities do

:22:55. > :22:59.what they can with translated But should the community

:23:00. > :23:08.be doing more? I'm meeting a group of Asian women

:23:09. > :23:12.who have all been affected So, before I was diagnosed,

:23:13. > :23:21.I didn't know anything. I'd never self-checked

:23:22. > :23:22.and we never really spoke about it in the house,

:23:23. > :23:24.about the importance of self-checking, so

:23:25. > :23:27.for me when I found out, It was a pure accident when I found

:23:28. > :23:35.a lump in my breast. I would describe it as a size

:23:36. > :23:38.of a golf ball. To give you an idea of how big

:23:39. > :23:41.the tumour, the cancer is. I was very fortunate

:23:42. > :23:43.that it hadn't spread. Again, I think the biggest

:23:44. > :23:45.shock for me was, why For some reason it never

:23:46. > :23:51.hit my radar at all. We'd had heart disease,

:23:52. > :23:56.diabetes in our family, But cancer was never mentioned,

:23:57. > :24:03.cancer was never spoken about. I had one sister ring me up

:24:04. > :24:06.and said sister, I think She said, "Well, you have been

:24:07. > :24:21.given cancer, you have So my mum, I don't think she's ever

:24:22. > :24:25.been for a smear test. The thought of somebody

:24:26. > :24:27.seeing her probably naked from the waist below was the most

:24:28. > :24:30.uncomfortable feeling in the world for her,

:24:31. > :24:32.so she just didn't want to go. Even though we've been

:24:33. > :24:36.through everything. These, I'm hoping, are very

:24:37. > :24:38.small numbers of people. If we know that there are some

:24:39. > :24:41.circumstances in local communities where the men's view of this

:24:42. > :24:44.is quite important, and then it would be for the local areas,

:24:45. > :24:47.the GPs or the CCGs to understand that, to talk to those groups

:24:48. > :24:51.of people and help unpick some There will be men who have

:24:52. > :24:57.comfortably allowed their wives, and even encouraged their wives

:24:58. > :24:59.to have these things, Why wouldn't you want your wife

:25:00. > :25:08.not to have cancer? How often do you see Asian women

:25:09. > :25:14.that have had positive experiences That are very few Asian

:25:15. > :25:18.women who have had a lot This reminds me of a woman who came

:25:19. > :25:23.to see us with a fungal thing, a rotten breast, and it was smelling

:25:24. > :25:25.so much that you couldn't I don't know how long

:25:26. > :25:29.she was hiding that. So she had literally

:25:30. > :25:31.left it that long? Because the cancer had spread

:25:32. > :25:45.to other parts of the body as well. I mean, it was very

:25:46. > :25:47.sad for the young lady But because she couldn't

:25:48. > :25:52.share that with everyone. How often do you hear that women

:25:53. > :25:55.feel like they can't share In my case, there was

:25:56. > :26:03.no support as such. My husband just said,

:26:04. > :26:05."I cannot cope with this", But I felt like there was no

:26:06. > :26:13.one I could talk to. I remember speaking to my in-laws

:26:14. > :26:18.and they said, "Don't cry, you have to be strong

:26:19. > :26:21.for your husband and your child". But I want my husband to be that

:26:22. > :26:24.strength and that shield now. Why do I have to be the one who has

:26:25. > :26:30.do pick up the weight in the Asian family and be strong when I'm

:26:31. > :26:32.going through all of this? I just thought, I don't want to be

:26:33. > :26:35.strong, I want it to be At chemo, I spoke to an Asian woman

:26:36. > :26:40.who really found it difficult Her husband literally stood

:26:41. > :26:44.over her during chemo to make sure So that when they left

:26:45. > :26:48.the unit, she was looking When we talk about educating

:26:49. > :26:57.ourselves, we need to educate our brothers and fathers

:26:58. > :26:59.and husbands even more. I don't think that conversations

:27:00. > :27:01.happen in the house. Before any educational TV or any

:27:02. > :27:05.adverts or leaflets or centres, we need to get to a point

:27:06. > :27:11.where parents and mothers are comfortable with educating

:27:12. > :27:14.their daughters at home to say lets, Anything, any changes to your body,

:27:15. > :27:17.let's talk about it. What would you like to see,

:27:18. > :27:19.moving forward now, So, we've got some data on what has

:27:20. > :27:26.been implemented, but we haven't got data on how effective those

:27:27. > :27:30.implementations have been. And I think we need to collect that

:27:31. > :27:37.data so that we can really influence the type of interventions that

:27:38. > :27:39.are required and which aren't working and which

:27:40. > :27:40.ones aren't working. So ultimately, we can

:27:41. > :27:42.work with public health When we get the CLAHRC results,

:27:43. > :27:46.we will implement those things and we've got every reason to think

:27:47. > :27:51.that will help save women from Asian backgrounds lives

:27:52. > :27:54.as well as other people from poor It's that moment of realisation

:27:55. > :28:03.of me losing my hair. And knowing that because it's

:28:04. > :28:05.on the outside rather on the inside, and visible to the world,

:28:06. > :28:08.it's something that he wouldn't Praveena completed her chemo

:28:09. > :28:13.and is now in remission. She and her husband got divorced

:28:14. > :28:16.during her treatment, something she says was partly due

:28:17. > :28:19.to cultural expectations Do you think that getting cancer led

:28:20. > :28:27.to the breakdown of your marriage? The bearing on him was that my wife

:28:28. > :28:37.had to look in a particular way. And for her to look ill in front

:28:38. > :28:41.of other people was not acceptable. So he never knew, he will do now,

:28:42. > :28:45.but he never knew the extent of the side-effects that I had

:28:46. > :28:49.from the chemotherapy. For Praveena, it's the community

:28:50. > :28:57.itself that needs to work harder. And no matter how educated you are,

:28:58. > :29:01.and I am from the medical profession, and I know all these

:29:02. > :29:04.things, and yet I still felt I had And that's down to my upbringing,

:29:05. > :29:28.down to the baggage. Thank you for your comments. Daniel

:29:29. > :29:32.picking up on the last point, "Many South Asian women are doctors and

:29:33. > :29:37.work in the NHS. How can this stigma be the case?" Yasmin says,

:29:38. > :29:42."Delighted you are tackling the stigma and raising awareness. Kerry

:29:43. > :29:47.says, "No need for stigma. You should just reach out to people. You

:29:48. > :29:51.won't be alone. You would have loads of caring, lovely people going

:29:52. > :29:55.through the same battle as you." Whatever your own experience, do get

:29:56. > :30:00.in touch. You can e-mail me. You can message

:30:01. > :30:02.me on Twitter using the hashtag Victoria Live.

:30:03. > :30:07.Children as young as 14 are thought to have been hit with tasers.

:30:08. > :30:11.Should police be banned from using them on anyone

:30:12. > :30:16.And in a few minutes, we'll speak to a friend of Chloe Ayling,

:30:17. > :30:26.the model who says she was held captive by gang in Italy for a week.

:30:27. > :30:37.Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of todays news.

:30:38. > :30:44.Chloe Ayling who is 20 and from South London says she was told by

:30:45. > :30:49.her kidnappers she'd be sold as a sex slave in the Middle East. She

:30:50. > :30:53.says she was acting unduh derest when she was seen out shopping with

:30:54. > :30:57.her captor. She was told that people were there watching and ready to

:30:58. > :31:05.kill her if she tried anything so she thought that the best idea was

:31:06. > :31:10.to go along with it and to be nice, in a way, to her captor. This

:31:11. > :31:14.programme has learnt a number of women in the UK from South Asian

:31:15. > :31:18.backgrounds who have cancer hide it because of a perceived stigma about

:31:19. > :31:21.the disease. Researchers say they're worried cultural taboos are leading

:31:22. > :31:25.to more women dying prematurely, some women even hide their Tighe

:31:26. > :31:29.know six from family and friends out of shame. In one case a woman only

:31:30. > :31:33.sought treatment when her breast was rotten.

:31:34. > :31:38.More than 40 maternity units in England closed to new admissions at

:31:39. > :31:47.some point last year according to data obtained by Labour. 42 out of

:31:48. > :31:50.96 Trusts said they'd shut wards temporarily on 382 occasions.

:31:51. > :31:54.Labour's blamed staffing shortages but the Government says that is

:31:55. > :31:57.misleading and closures are well rehearsed. Police in West London are

:31:58. > :32:05.asking for help to identify a jogger who appeared to push a pedestrian

:32:06. > :32:09.into the path of a bus, dramatic CCTV showing the incident which

:32:10. > :32:11.happened in May. It shows the man running along Putney Bridge and

:32:12. > :32:16.appearing to push the woman into the road. The bus is forced to swerve

:32:17. > :32:20.into the next lane to aLloyd hitting her. The bus stopped and passengers

:32:21. > :32:25.tended to the woman who received minor injuries. An appeal has been

:32:26. > :32:28.launched for witnesses or anyone who recognises the jogger, described as

:32:29. > :32:33.white, early to mid 30s with brown eyes and short brown hair. Anyone

:32:34. > :32:38.with information is asked to call police or Crimestoppers. Exam

:32:39. > :32:43.results in Scotland have been published this morning. The

:32:44. > :32:50.proportion of A-to-Cs passes fell slightly from 77. 77.2% to 77% this

:32:51. > :32:52.year, almost 137,000 candidates receiving their results through the

:32:53. > :32:55.post today, but more than a third signed up to get their results by

:32:56. > :33:02.text or e-mail. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:33:03. > :33:13.News - more at 10am. The perceived stigma surrounding

:33:14. > :33:17.cancer, particularly for women in the South Asian community, on that,

:33:18. > :33:24.Laura says fantastic coverage of this. The stigma faced among South

:33:25. > :33:29.Asian women, thank you for lifting the lid and another viewer says

:33:30. > :33:34.thank you for highlighting the stigma of how South Asian women face

:33:35. > :33:38.when cancer hits. It's sad and we need toe teach the men to help. If

:33:39. > :33:45.you want to read more, please do, it's on the BBC News website.

:33:46. > :33:52.Leah is back now with the sport. Great Britain's big medal hope in

:33:53. > :33:57.the 1500 metres says she's gutted she missed out on a bronze. Laura

:33:58. > :34:02.Muir was tipped at the finish line in dramatic fashion. She finished

:34:03. > :34:09.fourth. She now goes in the 5000 metres this week. Former ballerina

:34:10. > :34:14.Sophie Hitchon couldn't contain her tears in the hammer final. This time

:34:15. > :34:19.last year she managed a bronze in Rio but looked utterly devastated

:34:20. > :34:31.leaving the rammer cage last night. Several stars have suffered illness,

:34:32. > :34:35.including Isaac Watkala. One of the hotels says it was not the source of

:34:36. > :34:41.the outbreak of the Castro enteritis. Could Gareth Bale be

:34:42. > :34:45.heading back to the Premier League? Jose Mourinho says he'll fight to

:34:46. > :34:49.sign the Real Madrid forward. Real Madrid and Manchester United

:34:50. > :34:51.play each other tonight. That is all from me, Jess is back with more at

:34:52. > :34:56.10. There are calls to ban the use

:34:57. > :34:59.of tasers on anyone under 18. It comes as new figures show

:35:00. > :35:01.police have used tasers That doesn't mean they've

:35:02. > :35:04.actually been fired - it could mean taken out

:35:05. > :35:07.of the holster or drawn. The youngest child to be fired

:35:08. > :35:11.with a taser is thought to be 14. Now the Royal College of Paediatrics

:35:12. > :35:14.and Child Health say the devices are harmful and should not

:35:15. > :35:16.be used on children, and adds that Tasering

:35:17. > :35:20.a minor contravenes the UN Conventions on the Rights

:35:21. > :35:24.of the Child. Here's a short video showing police

:35:25. > :36:06.training how to use a Taser. We can speak now to Steve White,

:36:07. > :36:09.chair of the Police Federation, who is also a serving officer

:36:10. > :36:12.of 29 years. Oliver Feeley-Sprage, human rights

:36:13. > :36:26.group Amnesty International's Welcome. Explain Steve what a Taser

:36:27. > :36:31.is and why the police use it sometimes? It's basically an

:36:32. > :36:38.electrical device powered by battery, it fires two barbs, simple

:36:39. > :36:44.O-level physics essentially, if the two barbs go to the sub ject, the

:36:45. > :36:48.current runs which produces muscle contractions in the person that it's

:36:49. > :36:51.being fired on. Time and time again it's shown to be extremely

:36:52. > :36:57.effective. What is important to recognise is that as you rightly

:36:58. > :37:00.pointed out, Taser use is not really about firing, it's about the threat

:37:01. > :37:04.of use and understanding that if you don't comply with what the officer

:37:05. > :37:09.is saying, this could be coming your way. Nine times out of ten, probably

:37:10. > :37:15.even higher proportion than that, people understand the threat and it

:37:16. > :37:19.immediately deescalates the situation, regardless of the

:37:20. > :37:27.person's age. Do you accept that? For us it's a specialist tool that

:37:28. > :37:31.has a clear rationale to be used in particular circumstances, but it

:37:32. > :37:34.comes with risks. It's not just us that says that, it's the

:37:35. > :37:37.Government's own medical advice. It points to the fact that it can be

:37:38. > :37:41.lethal. There have been deaths in the UK, there are a number of

:37:42. > :37:45.inquests going on at the moment. There are two cases at least that

:37:46. > :37:53.I'm aware of where Taser use has been linked to the deaths. They're

:37:54. > :37:57.extremely painful as weapons. As a human rights organisation, we say

:37:58. > :38:00.their use must be incredibly carefully controlled and must only

:38:01. > :38:05.be used in certain circumstances, that's where our concern lies here.

:38:06. > :38:07.Would you say they are only used in the circumstances where it's

:38:08. > :38:11.absolutely necessary as outlined? Absolutely. Every time a police

:38:12. > :38:15.officer says he needs a tactical option in terms of force, they have

:38:16. > :38:19.to do it in the terms of the threat they're facing and the public are

:38:20. > :38:23.facing. It's not a question of give every copper a Taser so instead of

:38:24. > :38:28.stopping them you can red dot them. We are talking about a tactical

:38:29. > :38:31.option. Whilst nothing is 100% safe, statistics show the instances of

:38:32. > :38:35.harm to police officers and suspects are gone down since Taser has been

:38:36. > :38:40.introduced. I would much rather that someone had the threat of Taser than

:38:41. > :38:44.was hit with a baton, iron bar or deployed with CS. We often end up

:38:45. > :38:48.rolling around on the floor with people when we are detaining them.

:38:49. > :38:53.Injuries happen and some are serious. Taser is a very safe

:38:54. > :38:59.tactical option. This tweet from Anthony which I'll put to you

:39:00. > :39:03.Oliver, reusing Tasers on children, what are the police expected to do

:39:04. > :39:08.to defend themselves if a "child" comes at them armed with a knife or

:39:09. > :39:11.worse a gun which might be loaded? OK, well let's look at this first

:39:12. > :39:17.from the Government's own medical advice. They clearly say that

:39:18. > :39:21.Tasering young people carries risks, both to health but also

:39:22. > :39:25.psychologically. That is reflected in the UN standards that clearly say

:39:26. > :39:29.it's risky and today UK medical bodies have come out and said so. So

:39:30. > :39:32.I think we start from the perspective here that Tasering

:39:33. > :39:37.children is something that really shouldn't happen. But it doesn't say

:39:38. > :39:42.that it should never happen because there are extreme circumstances

:39:43. > :39:47.where in that instance... So in this example that Anthony is talking

:39:48. > :39:50.about? Yes, where somebody may die and the tactical option wasn't used.

:39:51. > :39:54.I think if you set the standard which says you shouldn't be using

:39:55. > :39:58.this against children unless there is really no alternative, that would

:39:59. > :40:02.probably be a sensible way forward. Is that not the standard, are you

:40:03. > :40:06.not actually saying the same thing? We are saying before, we do agree on

:40:07. > :40:11.most things. Because you are not calling for it to be banned on under

:40:12. > :40:15.18s are you? No, but we do want greater protection. We want it much

:40:16. > :40:19.clearly specified in the guidelines on Taser use that Tasering children

:40:20. > :40:23.comes with additional risks and that there should be a strict prohibition

:40:24. > :40:27.against using it. But not saying that in all circumstances you

:40:28. > :40:31.couldn't, for the example of the tweet, you know, that is a clear

:40:32. > :40:36.example where the exception includes the rule. We need a check on

:40:37. > :40:41.reality. It's very well sitting round thinking about the ins and

:40:42. > :40:46.outs and the guidance 679 our officers face the threats day in day

:40:47. > :40:51.out. We have seen a rise in knife crime for example... Sure and nobody

:40:52. > :40:56.would disagree with that. But Oliver is saying, on the specific guidance

:40:57. > :41:01.and really that language is tight for an officer to read and learn and

:41:02. > :41:08.absorb, do you agree with the kind of language that Oliver's used?

:41:09. > :41:11.Let's go back to the practical application, in terms of assessing

:41:12. > :41:15.someone's age, are you going to go through a semi interview before you

:41:16. > :41:18.find out. Of course that's completely impractical and people

:41:19. > :41:22.would understand that there are some people who're under 18 and look mid

:41:23. > :41:26.20s, there are some who're over 18 and look as though they're young

:41:27. > :41:32.teens. It's a very difficult area which is why it's got to be based on

:41:33. > :41:36.threat and risk, it can't be based on an arbitrary figure, whether it

:41:37. > :41:40.be 16, 21, simple as that. Is that a fair point? I think what I would say

:41:41. > :41:44.is there is a mismatch between the Government's medical advice on the

:41:45. > :41:49.use of Taser and the guidance in place in writing about one Tasers

:41:50. > :41:54.should be used. But on that specific point about under 18s, how would you

:41:55. > :41:59.know? There are 15-year-old lads who look 21? Exactly and that comes down

:42:00. > :42:03.to the officer training, that is another issue that we've not been

:42:04. > :42:11.getting into here. It's a key thing that the officers have to be most

:42:12. > :42:17.highly trained. Matt says people forget there are many six foot plus

:42:18. > :42:21.14-year-olds and when you combine with that with mind-altering drugs,

:42:22. > :42:25.a Taser is a safe way for the police and the perpetrator to gain control

:42:26. > :42:29.of the situation. Thank you both very much.

:42:30. > :42:36.The Home Office says they are an important tactical operation for

:42:37. > :42:39.trained officers, particularly in potentially violent situations where

:42:40. > :42:43.other things have failed. The statement says the police have to

:42:44. > :42:44.record the location and outcome of all Taser usage along with the

:42:45. > :42:53.ethnicity and age of those involved. The Toronto police officer

:42:54. > :42:56.who bought a shoplifter A British model who was allegedly

:42:57. > :43:01.held captive by a gang in Italy was told she would be sold

:43:02. > :43:05.in the Middle East "for sex," Francesco Peschi also told the BBC

:43:06. > :43:10.that 20-year-old Chloe Ayling had been acting under duress

:43:11. > :43:14.when she was taken shopping The ordeal is alleged to have

:43:15. > :43:22.taken place last month, and was made public by Italian

:43:23. > :43:24.police only last week. She was told that people

:43:25. > :43:29.were there watching her and ready to kill her if she tried anything,

:43:30. > :43:46.so she thought that the best And to be nice in a way to her

:43:47. > :43:48.captor because he told her that he wanted to release her.

:43:49. > :43:51.Let's talk exclusively now to Carla Belluci,

:43:52. > :43:55.a close friend of Chloe Ayling who has known her since she was 15.

:43:56. > :43:59.Carla has been speaking to Chloe in the last couple of days.

:44:00. > :44:16.A friend of Chloe - how's she been in the last couple of days?

:44:17. > :44:21.She's doing relatively well. As soon as I knew that it was Chloe, I

:44:22. > :44:24.called her and it was very emotional. What did she say about

:44:25. > :44:27.what happened to her? Obviously a lot cannot be talked ability because

:44:28. > :44:37.of the police and what is happening with the case but she did say that

:44:38. > :44:42.she was drugged and drove I believe 100-odd miles whilst in a suitcase.

:44:43. > :44:46.What did she say about that ordeal? She said it was horrendous. A lot of

:44:47. > :44:51.it she was trying not to get herself into trouble as she was talking to

:44:52. > :44:58.me but I could feel in her voice she was trying to be strong. And was she

:44:59. > :45:02.able to recall lots of detail or was stuff coming back to her? Stuff is

:45:03. > :45:06.coming back to her. I didn't want to step too deep by saying, what

:45:07. > :45:09.actually happened. But she said she was drugged with ketamine and I

:45:10. > :45:15.think now memories are coming back to her slowly. Right. You will have

:45:16. > :45:19.heard that her lawyer talked today about the reason that she was seen

:45:20. > :45:24.shopping with the captor before she was freed was because he threatened

:45:25. > :45:29.her and said, you know, if you don't do what I say, you are at risk of

:45:30. > :45:33.losing your life, effectively. Did she talk about that? The first I

:45:34. > :45:37.knew of that was when I read last night or this morning, it's come out

:45:38. > :45:41.that she was seen shopping with him. That she did not mention to me. What

:45:42. > :45:45.do you think of what the lawyer said about that?

:45:46. > :45:49.I mean if you are under that circumstance where somebody is

:45:50. > :45:53.threatening your life, you are going to do whatever you're going to do to

:45:54. > :45:56.keep yourself safe. So I don't really want to comment. She was

:45:57. > :46:04.there. She was going through it at the time. You said she was strong on

:46:05. > :46:08.the phone to you on Sunday. I mean you've known her for five years. Is

:46:09. > :46:12.she strong? Is she wise? I wouldn't say she is the wisest of girls. She

:46:13. > :46:16.is be a little bit naive, she's young, but I think she has had three

:46:17. > :46:21.weeks to get used to this, so it happened a few weeks ago so she has

:46:22. > :46:25.been in Italy while this has been going on, for us this is new, but

:46:26. > :46:30.she had a few weeks to get used to it. I would say she is quite naive

:46:31. > :46:34.to get herself in that position. I will ask you more about that in a

:46:35. > :46:40.moment. Was she upset on the phone? Did she cry? She seemed upset and

:46:41. > :46:45.kept saying, "I'm all right." Because I was upset, that was my

:46:46. > :46:53.initial reaction. I am emotional. She was like don't cry. I'm OK. She

:46:54. > :46:58.was almost reassuring me and I wanted to reassure her. Did she

:46:59. > :47:02.explain why she stayed in Italy? She had to stay in Italy whilst the

:47:03. > :47:07.investigation was going on. She had to remain in the country. So you say

:47:08. > :47:13.she is not the wisest of the girls. She is naive. She is young. What do

:47:14. > :47:17.you know about the arrangement that she had made for this photo-shoot in

:47:18. > :47:22.Milan without naming names? I just know that she was sent to this

:47:23. > :47:28.photo-shoot via a male agent... In London? In London. That has got a

:47:29. > :47:33.bit of a reputation and I think she did tell me on Sunday that he found

:47:34. > :47:37.out that the studio was fake two days after she had gone missing and

:47:38. > :47:41.my argument on that as working in the industry if you can find that

:47:42. > :47:46.out after she is missing why could you not find it out before sending

:47:47. > :47:51.her because he was able to access that information that the studio was

:47:52. > :47:57.fake. We don't know if that's true. Who told you that? Chloe told me on

:47:58. > :48:01.Sunday that it was a fake set-up and the studio didn't exist. I think she

:48:02. > :48:07.believed she was going to a studio for a photo-shoot. She believed it?

:48:08. > :48:12.Yes. Understood. Again, without naming names, what mistakes did she

:48:13. > :48:15.make as a young glamour model, you know, getting involved in this

:48:16. > :48:20.photo-shoot because there are dos and don'ts, aren't there? I would

:48:21. > :48:24.say, the person that she has dealt with is, I would listen to advice

:48:25. > :48:29.from other girls and be aware and always have your guard up. I would

:48:30. > :48:33.never travel to a foreign country alone, not knowing where I'm going

:48:34. > :48:39.until that is like established that everything is legit and real. And in

:48:40. > :48:44.the glamour modelling world would you, is it all right for a male

:48:45. > :48:47.agent or a male photographer to arrange this kind of thing? It

:48:48. > :48:51.happens all the time. Does it? It happens all the time. Girls are

:48:52. > :48:55.desperate for fame. They believe anything, you know, come and do a

:48:56. > :49:01.shoot. Me being a little bit older and wiser, I would have someone

:49:02. > :49:06.beside me. When I used to model I would take somebody with me. I feel

:49:07. > :49:11.uncomfortable going to meet a male photographer in a location and doing

:49:12. > :49:15.a shoot. That's not my comfort zone. There are a number of people who

:49:16. > :49:22.think something about this story doesn't add up. That it feels a bit

:49:23. > :49:28.fishy. What would you say? That's such a hard one, Chloe being a

:49:29. > :49:33.friend of mine. I just think, Chloe is a good girl. A little bit naive.

:49:34. > :49:39.Could she be misled? I just don't want to say to be honest? She,

:49:40. > :49:43.obviously she has grown up to when I knew her from the beginning at 15.

:49:44. > :49:48.She is now a 20-year-old woman, but if anything happened like that, I

:49:49. > :49:51.would say she was misled. Did she always, because you first did a

:49:52. > :49:56.commercial shoot with her when she was 15. Did she always want to get

:49:57. > :50:00.into glamour modelling? At 15 I remember her saying I want to be a

:50:01. > :50:04.glamour model, but she had to wait until she was 18. It was always her

:50:05. > :50:08.goal. Now, she is doing. When you spoke to her on Sunday, she said to

:50:09. > :50:15.you that she was doing a shoot this week? I believe, again, from what

:50:16. > :50:19.she said, I believe she was doing a photo-shoot for page three because

:50:20. > :50:24.we were going to met up today. For a newspaper? For page three, I

:50:25. > :50:28.believe. Yes. Yes. What do you think of that? Each to their own, maybe it

:50:29. > :50:33.is her way of coping and to just get back out there. For me, I think that

:50:34. > :50:37.would be the last thing on her mind, but she has her reasons and maybe it

:50:38. > :50:41.is her way of dealing with happened to her to just get back out there

:50:42. > :50:47.and it is her way of coping. You run an agency now. You used to do

:50:48. > :50:51.glamour modelling yourself. Were you ever treated poorly? I can recall a

:50:52. > :50:55.situation where I did a photo-shoot with a male photographer, turning up

:50:56. > :50:59.at a location, didn't feel comfortable from the start and

:51:00. > :51:04.literally, just took my clothes off, I was wearing, and left all my stuff

:51:05. > :51:07.and ran. Tell me what made you feel uncomfortable? Just the way the

:51:08. > :51:12.photographer was acting. He wanted more and I knew it was fishy. It was

:51:13. > :51:15.just your instinct? It was my instinct to get out of here. This is

:51:16. > :51:21.not a good situation. When you say he wanted more, more revealing, more

:51:22. > :51:26.exposure? More exposure. OK. It is a competitive business. It is. All

:51:27. > :51:29.modelling is. And as you said, people are ambitious. Young women

:51:30. > :51:34.are ambitious and desperate to get on and get ahead of their rivals,

:51:35. > :51:39.but you've got to take care, haven't you? You have got to take care.

:51:40. > :51:43.Safety is first. Nothing is worth risking your life for, no fame,

:51:44. > :51:49.money, safety is number one. Is there any regulation? Presumably

:51:50. > :51:54.anyone can set up and be an agent? Anyone can set up and be an agent.

:51:55. > :51:58.Photographer? Anyone can hide behind a screen. It is the same with dating

:51:59. > :52:02.websites and social media, I blame, you don't know who is behind that

:52:03. > :52:07.screen. You can set-up tomorrow and say you are a photographer, come to

:52:08. > :52:11.my place, do a shoot, take pictures and look professional. So how would

:52:12. > :52:14.you check that out? I do my research, constant research and if I

:52:15. > :52:18.had any doubt I would go with my model. Even if it meant flying ot of

:52:19. > :52:26.the country, I would go with them. You would accompany them? Or send

:52:27. > :52:33.somebody to chaperone them. Thank you, Carla.

:52:34. > :52:36.Carla is a close friend of Chloe Ayling. Talking about what she says

:52:37. > :52:40.Chloe Ayling experienced. Next, a shoplifter in Toronto

:52:41. > :52:43.who was caught stealing an outfit for a job interview was given

:52:44. > :52:46.a second chance by the police Constable Niran Jeyanesan was sent

:52:47. > :52:49.to Walmart to apprehend the 18-year-old for attempting

:52:50. > :52:52.to steal a shirt, tie and socks. When he arrived, he realised

:52:53. > :52:54.the offender had been stealing So he released him and

:52:55. > :53:07.bought him the clothes. We received a call for theft under

:53:08. > :53:13.where an individual was placed under arrest by a Wal-Mart loss prevention

:53:14. > :53:21.officer. My partner and I responded and we got to meet the individual

:53:22. > :53:25.who was under arrest. He had stolen some items from Wal-Mart. After

:53:26. > :53:31.having a conversation with him, it came to light that he had stolen it,

:53:32. > :53:37.he has taken the items because he had a job interview. The items that

:53:38. > :53:42.he had taken were a dress shirt and a tie and he had a job interview on

:53:43. > :53:48.Tuesday with the service industry and this young person has been

:53:49. > :53:52.facing his own difficulty in life. He was looking to straighten all

:53:53. > :53:59.that by providing for his family and trying to get in a job and that came

:54:00. > :54:06.to light. When we proceeded with the arrest later on, I found out that

:54:07. > :54:11.this person was actually looking for that job interview and we, I went

:54:12. > :54:15.and got the shirt and the tie for this individual and after when he

:54:16. > :54:18.was released it was given back to him so he can attend that job

:54:19. > :54:22.interview. So you bought the shirt and tie for him and he had stolen it

:54:23. > :54:29.because he had no way of purchasing it on his own. He is a young guy. He

:54:30. > :54:35.is 18 years old. Why did you feel so compelled? That's correct. Not every

:54:36. > :54:41.day that people do things for wrong reasons. This individual didn't have

:54:42. > :54:46.any resources to go about how he went about it and he stole those

:54:47. > :54:51.items because he wanted a second chance in life and definitely not as

:54:52. > :54:54.a police officer we weren't going to stand between him and his second

:54:55. > :54:59.chance. He doesn't know you did this for him? No, not at that moment, no.

:55:00. > :55:03.Some people at home will say if he wanted a second chance, why was he

:55:04. > :55:08.stealing? What do you say to that? Having a conversation with him, he

:55:09. > :55:14.did not have any resources, anywhere to go, anywhere to go, to go about

:55:15. > :55:18.this. I think he really wanted to attend that interview and I don't

:55:19. > :55:21.think he knew how else to go about this. OK.

:55:22. > :55:24.Constable Niran Jeyanesan's boss has praised his actions saying

:55:25. > :55:27.arresting him wouldn't be in the interests of anyone

:55:28. > :55:29.and that it reiterates their goal of being positive role models

:55:30. > :55:42.Comments on Tasering under-18s. There are calls that the police in

:55:43. > :55:46.this country shouldn't be able to Taser under-18s. This texter, "I

:55:47. > :55:51.volunteered to be tasered at a show in the USA. It immediately

:55:52. > :55:56.incapacitated me, but did it hurt? No. Would I do it again? Absolutely

:55:57. > :56:01.yes. It is an excellent tactical weapon." Colin says, "We can't chase

:56:02. > :56:05.kids on mopeds or search them for knives. Why not ban the Taser and

:56:06. > :56:10.further extend their freedom to be lawless." Daniel, "What will police

:56:11. > :56:16.do regarding using Tasers on under-18s? Before I used this Taser

:56:17. > :56:23.on you, how old are you?" Another viewer says, "The same kids that

:56:24. > :56:29.commit murders and robberies." PG, "How about under-18s not doing

:56:30. > :56:33.anything to warrant Taser?" Kevin says, "Some 14-year-olds don't look

:56:34. > :56:39.14. How do police know how old they are?" A viewer says, "Public

:56:40. > :56:43.confidence will be lost if Tasers are misused and their use isn't

:56:44. > :56:49.properly scrutinised. We need video evidence. No second firing and no

:56:50. > :56:52.use on under-18s." The news and sport son the way.

:56:53. > :56:56.Before that, here is the weather from Simon.

:56:57. > :57:03.Don't you just love the British Summer Time.

:57:04. > :57:09.There is some sunshine out there to be found. In South Wales, some sunny

:57:10. > :57:12.spells here. Also a bit of sunshine towards Scotland and Northern

:57:13. > :57:16.Ireland. You can see here, but the rainfall is quite heavy at the

:57:17. > :57:21.moment across the Midlands particularly so towards Lincolnshire

:57:22. > :57:25.where in Lincolnshire itself it's wellies that are the order of the

:57:26. > :57:29.day. The rainfall will last for much of the day as well. It is associated

:57:30. > :57:32.with this weather front here, bringing that area of rain and some

:57:33. > :57:36.heavy and thundery showers developing across East Anglia and

:57:37. > :57:41.the South East of England. Further north and west, looking dry and

:57:42. > :57:43.bright. But for this afternoon, heavy and thundery showers expected

:57:44. > :57:49.in parts of south-west England through parts of Wales as well.

:57:50. > :57:53.Particularly so fort south-east of England. Feeling cool here as well.

:57:54. > :57:58.Temperatures only 13 Celsius in Hull. For north-west England and the

:57:59. > :58:01.far north of north-east England, something drier and one or two

:58:02. > :58:04.showers, but sunny spells. Sunny spells and scattered showers

:58:05. > :58:07.expected for both Scotland and Northern Ireland where temperatures

:58:08. > :58:11.will be about 15 Celsius or 16 Celsius. Through this evening, those

:58:12. > :58:15.heavy showers will continue giving a lot of rainfall in a short space of

:58:16. > :58:19.time. A bit of localised flooding and the rain will continue into the

:58:20. > :58:21.night as well. Large rainfall totals building up across parts of

:58:22. > :58:24.Lincolnshire and the Midlands. Further north of Scotland and

:58:25. > :58:28.Northern Ireland, clear skies here. It could get chilly into the first

:58:29. > :58:30.part of Wednesday morning. But during Wednesday, we have got this

:58:31. > :58:35.weather front which is still with us. But look behind me, this area of

:58:36. > :58:39.high pressure is starting to move in. It's a ridge. It's going to

:58:40. > :58:42.improve things for Scotland and for Northern Ireland, northern parts of

:58:43. > :58:47.England and Wales. Some dry, bright weather for much of Wednesday, but

:58:48. > :58:51.it stays very wet in the South East corner except perhaps around Kent

:58:52. > :58:54.and east Sussexment here we could see a few heavy and thundery

:58:55. > :58:59.showers, but still wet in the South East corner. Maximum temperatures

:59:00. > :59:03.17, 18 Celsius. For Thursday, still starting off with a bit of rain in

:59:04. > :59:07.the South East, but otherwise, that high pressure, that ridge of high

:59:08. > :59:10.pressure is with us. So things looking more settled and plenty of

:59:11. > :59:13.fine and dry weather across the bulk of Scotland and Northern Ireland.

:59:14. > :59:16.There is that ridge of high pressure. You can see it is now

:59:17. > :59:19.starting to it is appear as we go into Friday. Another system of

:59:20. > :59:23.weather fronts moves in throughout the day of the that's going to bring

:59:24. > :59:27.more rain as we go throughout the day. Showeriout breaks of rain

:59:28. > :59:30.towards the south and the east, but there will be sunshine initially,

:59:31. > :59:34.but maximum temperatures about 16 to 20 Celsius. A bit more in the way of

:59:35. > :59:37.brighter skies and sunshine breaking through in the far north-west as the

:59:38. > :59:50.rain clears its way south-east wards. Bye-bye.

:59:51. > :59:54.Hello - it's Tuesday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:59:55. > :59:57.The British women from South Asian backgrounds who hide their cancer

:59:58. > :59:59.or refuse to seek treatment because of stigma.

:00:00. > :00:01.This reminds me of a woman who came to see us

:00:02. > :00:03.with a fungal thing, you know, rotten breast,

:00:04. > :00:07.and it was smelling so much that you couldn't even sit next to it.

:00:08. > :00:09.I don't know how long she was hiding that.

:00:10. > :00:12.Experts tell us that some women not seeking treatment early enough

:00:13. > :00:17.We'll be speaking to them and to one woman who kept her cancer secret.

:00:18. > :00:20.The parents of two teenage charity volunteers who died

:00:21. > :00:24.after being swept out to sea tell this programme they're taking legal

:00:25. > :00:33.action against the charity which organised the placements.

:00:34. > :00:37.A 19-year-old and 21-year-old died when they were overpowered by fierce

:00:38. > :00:44.currents off a beach in South Africa.

:00:45. > :00:47.A serious sickness bug strikes one of the team hotels at the Athletics

:00:48. > :00:56.Those affected include members of the German athletics team and the

:00:57. > :00:59.Botswana athlete had to pull out of the 200 metre heat here last night.

:01:00. > :01:02.With just one gold to their name, can the British team improve on

:01:03. > :01:13.their medal tally? Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

:01:14. > :01:16.with a summary of todays news. The lawyer for a British model

:01:17. > :01:19.who was allegedly held captive by a gang in Italy has been giving

:01:20. > :01:22.more details about the case. Francesco Peschi says Chloe Ayling,

:01:23. > :01:25.who's 20 and from South London, was told by her kidnappers

:01:26. > :01:28.that she would be sold as a sex He said she was acting under duress

:01:29. > :01:32.when she was seen shopping with her captor before

:01:33. > :01:34.she was freed. She was told that people

:01:35. > :01:38.were there watching her and ready to kill her if she tried anything,

:01:39. > :01:44.so she thought that the best idea was to go along with it and to be

:01:45. > :01:49.nice in a way to her captor because he told her that he

:01:50. > :01:52.wanted to release her. This programme has learned that

:01:53. > :01:55.a number of UK women from South Asian backgrounds

:01:56. > :01:58.who have cancer, hide it, because of a perceived

:01:59. > :02:00.stigma about the disease. Researchers say they're worried that

:02:01. > :02:03.cultural taboos are leading to more women dying prematurely

:02:04. > :02:06.in the South Asian community. We've discovered that some

:02:07. > :02:08.hide their diagnosis from family and friends out of shame and in one

:02:09. > :02:12.case a woman only sought treatment More than 40 maternity units

:02:13. > :02:17.in England closed to new admissions at some point last year according

:02:18. > :02:19.to data obtained by Labour. 42 out of 96 Trusts said they'd shut

:02:20. > :02:24.wards temporarily on 382 occasions. Labour's blamed staffing shortages

:02:25. > :02:28.but the Government says that is misleading and closures

:02:29. > :02:31.are well rehearsed. Police in West London are asking

:02:32. > :02:51.for help to identify a jogger who appeared to push a pedestrian

:02:52. > :02:54.into the path of a bus, dramatic CCTV showing the incident

:02:55. > :02:56.which happened in May. It shows the man running along

:02:57. > :02:59.Putney Bridge and appearing to push The bus is forced to swerve into

:03:00. > :03:04.the next lane to aLloyd hitting her. The bus stopped and passengers

:03:05. > :03:06.tended to the woman An appeal has been launched

:03:07. > :03:09.for witnesses or anyone who recognises the jogger,

:03:10. > :03:11.described as white, early to mid 30s with brown eyes

:03:12. > :03:13.and short brown hair. Anyone with information is asked

:03:14. > :03:22.to call police or Crimestoppers. Another victim of the 11th

:03:23. > :03:25.September 2001 attack on the World Trade Center

:03:26. > :03:28.in New York City has been identified The name of the man

:03:29. > :03:32.is being withheld at The last time a victim

:03:33. > :03:36.was identified was March 2015. Only 60% of the victims

:03:37. > :03:39.of the attack have Exam results in Scotland have been

:03:40. > :03:49.published this morning. The proportion of A-to-Cs

:03:50. > :03:54.passes fell slightly from 77.2% to 77% this year,

:03:55. > :04:00.almost 137,000 candidates receiving their results

:04:01. > :04:02.through the post today, but more than a third signed up to

:04:03. > :04:13.get their results by text or e-mail. A man has died after attempting to

:04:14. > :04:16.swim the English Channel. A coastguard received the call last

:04:17. > :04:19.night from a support vessel saying the 40-year-old swimmer was in

:04:20. > :04:22.difficulty. The search and rescue helicopter arrived at the scene

:04:23. > :04:26.within ten minutes and airlifted the man to hospital but he later died.

:04:27. > :04:30.He had been roughly half way through the crossing attempt when, according

:04:31. > :04:35.to Kent Police, he became unwell. That is a summary of the news, more

:04:36. > :04:40.at 10. 30. An e-mail from a former police officer on the use of Tasers.

:04:41. > :04:44.I was a police officer for 30 years and was assaulted many times when on

:04:45. > :04:48.duty by those drunk, high on drugs or who just didn't want to be

:04:49. > :04:52.arrested. One of the worst assaulted I suffered was from the hands of a

:04:53. > :04:55.young teenager who didn't want to comply with a reasonable request

:04:56. > :04:59.while in custody. I couldn't believe the sheer level of violence directed

:05:00. > :05:04.at me by someone of a young age, how I wish I had been in possession of a

:05:05. > :05:07.Taser. It could have saved many visits to my GP and an extended

:05:08. > :05:10.period of sick leave. Do get in touch with us

:05:11. > :05:12.throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria live

:05:13. > :05:16.and If you text, you will be charged Do get in touch with us

:05:17. > :05:19.throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria live

:05:20. > :05:22.and If you text, you will be charged Here's some sport now with Jess Jess

:05:23. > :05:27.- it seems a serious stomach bug has affected several of the athletes

:05:28. > :05:34.there in London - what's the latest We have had the latest in from

:05:35. > :05:37.public health England who say 30 people associated with the world

:05:38. > :05:42.athletics hundredships including athletes and support staff have been

:05:43. > :05:44.affected. Environmental Health have carried out an inspection by say

:05:45. > :05:49.there is no evidence to suggest that the hotel is the source of this

:05:50. > :05:55.stomach bug. This all emerged last night when the Botswana athlete

:05:56. > :06:00.Isaac Makwala pulled out of the 200 metre heat here. It late eemerged it

:06:01. > :06:04.was due to this stomach bug. Now this has been a massive talking

:06:05. > :06:13.point here this morning as the details have come in. Athletes from

:06:14. > :06:24.at least four nations have been affected. The former javelin star

:06:25. > :06:28.Steve Backley spoke to us about this. I'm sure they'll get to the

:06:29. > :06:31.bottom of this and understand what has caused it. But it's a bit of a

:06:32. > :06:37.concern for the organising committee for London. It's not great, it's not

:06:38. > :06:41.what we would have wanted and hopefully it's squashed quite

:06:42. > :06:45.quickly. We'll talk to public health England before 11 this morning. Is

:06:46. > :06:49.there a sense of disappointment amongst British fans because of the

:06:50. > :06:57.lack of medals, one medal and the sort of near misses from British

:06:58. > :07:00.athletes? Yes. This is not where the British team would have wanted to be

:07:01. > :07:08.as we reach the half way point on day five. Many missed opportunities.

:07:09. > :07:15.Katrina Johnson-Thompson we hoped might have won a heptathlon and that

:07:16. > :07:19.wasn't meant to be. And Laura Muir in the women's 1500 metre final, she

:07:20. > :07:25.just missed out on that bronze and then heartbreak as well for Sophie

:07:26. > :07:28.Hitchon in the hammer final, she fought back tears when she realised

:07:29. > :07:33.she could only finish in seventh position. The British team will

:07:34. > :07:36.certainly be hoping for a much more successful time of it tonight.

:07:37. > :07:43.There's only one Brit going in a final. That's Kyle Langford in the

:07:44. > :07:48.men's 800 metres. Coverage gets under way on BBC Two with Gabby and

:07:49. > :07:53.the team from 6. 30 tonight, Victoria. Thank you very much.

:07:54. > :07:57.Experts are warning that some British South Asian women

:07:58. > :07:59.are reporting cancer later than other British ethnic groups

:08:00. > :08:05.Researchers have told this programme they're worried cultural stigmas

:08:06. > :08:07.and taboos are leading to more women dying prematurely in

:08:08. > :08:11.We've learned that some women even hide their diagnosis from family

:08:12. > :08:17.Our reporter Amber Haque bought you the full story an hour ago -

:08:18. > :08:31.Praveena stumbled upon a lump in her breast when she was 36.

:08:32. > :08:37.She grew up in a strict Indian community where even talking about

:08:38. > :08:41.this disease was deemed shameful. When she was diagnosed,

:08:42. > :08:44.she decided to hide it. So a lot of it, in terms

:08:45. > :08:47.of not telling my family, I didn't tell them because I just

:08:48. > :08:50.thought if people hear the fact that I've got cancer

:08:51. > :08:52.they're going to think it's Pooja is lead researcher

:08:53. > :08:55.from a team called CLAHRC, who are funded by a research arm

:08:56. > :08:58.of the NHS and they work with public and professionals

:08:59. > :09:01.on health inequalities. She's spent the past few years

:09:02. > :09:04.looking at attitudes towards cancer She is worried by some of the things

:09:05. > :09:15.she's heard. When it came to South Asian women,

:09:16. > :09:18.there were some specific issues that actually were raised

:09:19. > :09:20.within this work. For example, there was more

:09:21. > :09:23.of an issue around shame, Also about the influence

:09:24. > :09:26.from the males in the family and elders in the family,

:09:27. > :09:29.and if they didn't think that women should be going for screening,

:09:30. > :09:31.they wouldn't go for screening. What are some of the more shocking

:09:32. > :09:34.misconceptions you've They would hide the shame,

:09:35. > :09:40.in their eyes, of having a cancer diagnosis, because they felt it

:09:41. > :09:42.would influence their The reluctance to go

:09:43. > :09:47.for a smear is that you don't From the husband, it is

:09:48. > :09:51.deemed to be, like you're When it came to going for smears,

:09:52. > :09:58.it was about women losing their virginities by having

:09:59. > :10:01.the smear test, and then again not It's hard to say just how

:10:02. > :10:06.serious the problem is, because very little information has

:10:07. > :10:11.been collected on ethnicity Research we do have has shown Asian

:10:12. > :10:17.women with breast cancer have poorer survival,

:10:18. > :10:22.and they're more likely to present with advanced tumours

:10:23. > :10:34.when they do get diagnosed. Experts tell us they're concerned

:10:35. > :10:36.the cultural stigmas are leading to more South Asian women dying.

:10:37. > :10:53.I worked in the cancer field for many years.

:10:54. > :10:56.Unfortunately, women who do not examine their breasts, they're

:10:57. > :11:00.presenting late. And this reminds me

:11:01. > :11:03.of a woman who came to see us with a fungal thing,

:11:04. > :11:04.you know, rotten breast, and it was smelling so much that

:11:05. > :11:08.you couldn't even sit next to it. I don't know how long

:11:09. > :11:11.she was hiding that. She was a young lady

:11:12. > :11:31.with young children, you know, but because she couldn't share

:11:32. > :11:32.that with anyone. And how often do you hear that women

:11:33. > :11:36.feel like they can't share it Let's talk now with Madhu Agarwal,

:11:37. > :11:43.NHS cancer support manager and chair of Cancer Equality,

:11:44. > :11:46.Iyna Butt who kept her breast cancer diagnosis hidden from some

:11:47. > :12:02.of her family and Sadia Habib Welcome all of you. Inya, you were

:12:03. > :12:11.diagnosed in 2015 aged 30 and they found a lump as big as a golf ball.

:12:12. > :12:15.What did you say to your family? I think the first thought that came to

:12:16. > :12:23.my mind when the oncololgist said you have cancer was how do I tell my

:12:24. > :12:29.parents. My husband was with me. I never thought about anything else

:12:30. > :12:35.other than, why couldn't I tell my parents. What was in your mind then?

:12:36. > :12:40.I think because I had my own child and the thought of telling my

:12:41. > :12:44.parents that their child has got cancer and when you hear the word

:12:45. > :12:48.cancer, you imagine death. There's nothing else that you think of. To

:12:49. > :12:51.have to think of the worst scenario, to have to tell my parents was

:12:52. > :12:57.horrible. I didn't want to do it. No. But there might be a number of

:12:58. > :13:03.people who could relate to that, you don't want to tell your parents

:13:04. > :13:07.because you don't want to mention dying, but what about the South

:13:08. > :13:11.Asian community? They don't talk about it, it's not the norm to talk

:13:12. > :13:15.about cancer, especially when I was told I had breast cancer, to say the

:13:16. > :13:20.word breast isn't normal in the Asian community. You can't even say

:13:21. > :13:25.the word, let alone checking your breasts? Far from it. Why? I think a

:13:26. > :13:30.woman's part within an Asian community, her role is so heavy,

:13:31. > :13:34.you're a mother, a daughter, a daughter-in-law, a wife. You're

:13:35. > :13:40.there to protect everybody, so when you get told you've got cancer, you

:13:41. > :13:44.are in that weak position where you can't afford to be in. You need to

:13:45. > :13:47.lift up the family and support them, not the other way around. I think

:13:48. > :13:51.there is a lot of burden Asian women carry within the community. What

:13:52. > :13:57.kind of things did family members say to you when you told them? Oh,

:13:58. > :14:03.God, I heard all sorts. Some I heard during my treatment, some I heard

:14:04. > :14:07.after that my family told me, things they'd heard from people, things

:14:08. > :14:10.like wear a black bra and it will make the cancer going away. I heard

:14:11. > :14:15.things like, you must have done something wrong in your life and you

:14:16. > :14:19.have been opinion Nished by God, pray more, do more by religion and

:14:20. > :14:24.it's a punishment. I heard things like, don't have the treatment done,

:14:25. > :14:40.just pray and you will be fine, you don't need to go ahead -- you're

:14:41. > :14:45.being punished by God. Madhu we heard you talk about a patient who

:14:46. > :14:50.let her breast rotten before she sought treatment. That is

:14:51. > :14:54.unbelievably distressing and very sad? It's a horrifying experience.

:14:55. > :15:00.She would have been alive if she'd gone to the GP at the right time.

:15:01. > :15:03.The problem is, we, when we talk about breast awareness, we only

:15:04. > :15:06.think about a lump in the body. That's not true. There are other

:15:07. > :15:15.symptoms you need to look out for too. That is what is important. A

:15:16. > :15:19.lump is one of them, the other is, you take the screening, the

:15:20. > :15:23.mammogram and that shows up the abnormalities. What would stop a

:15:24. > :15:30.British Asian woman going for a mammogram?

:15:31. > :15:35.Raez Another family member might have opened the letter. How are they

:15:36. > :15:41.going to tell the family that this is where they are going? It could be

:15:42. > :15:45.job related. They might not be in a permanent job. There are multiple

:15:46. > :15:51.issues. You cannot say this is the prime reason. What's the job got to

:15:52. > :16:00.do with going for a mammogram? They can't lose the money. They are not

:16:01. > :16:04.able to work. OK. What is the message that you need to get out to

:16:05. > :16:10.people because of the barriers that are erected for some women in the

:16:11. > :16:14.South Asian community in Britain? We need to encourage women to

:16:15. > :16:19.particularly go for their screenings as well. So their breast or cervical

:16:20. > :16:28.or smear test as they're known and we need to be working on the ground

:16:29. > :16:32.at grass root level to dispel some of the myths and beliefsment I can

:16:33. > :16:38.say that I have come across anecdotal evidence that reflects

:16:39. > :16:42.what your guests are saying. There is a lot of stigma attached to

:16:43. > :16:45.cancer. The cancer word isn't mentioned. In some cases I heard

:16:46. > :16:51.that the community thinks it is contagious or that you can catch it

:16:52. > :16:56.and also you know that you may have sinned in your life which is the

:16:57. > :17:00.reason why you're being punished. And the multiple roles that South

:17:01. > :17:04.Asian women plays within our home. She is the backbone of our family.

:17:05. > :17:09.For that reason, sometimes it is the fear factor. What if it is cancer,

:17:10. > :17:18.if I have a symptom or I go for my smear test, what if they find

:17:19. > :17:21.abnormalities. If you don't seek help or don't check your breasts

:17:22. > :17:26.then you may end up dying so you will be no use to your family after

:17:27. > :17:30.all anyway? That's what we are trying to reinforce. Early detection

:17:31. > :17:34.and prevention is important in cancer. This common belief within

:17:35. > :17:39.the South Asian communities that cancer means death, you know f

:17:40. > :17:42.somebody is not going for their cervical screening and potentially

:17:43. > :17:48.if there are abnormal cells they can go on to develop cervical cancer.

:17:49. > :17:53.That would be in most cases diagnosed at a late stage if they

:17:54. > :17:57.have not been going for their smears which means a poor prognosis, a poor

:17:58. > :18:03.outcome leading to losing their lives and it almost becomes a self

:18:04. > :18:09.fulfilling prophecy within the community when somebody passes away

:18:10. > :18:13.from cancer that cancer means death. It becomes a vicious circle where

:18:14. > :18:17.fear becomes more widespread and a denial of talking about cancer. It's

:18:18. > :18:21.quite rife within the South Asian communities.

:18:22. > :18:27.Cancer does mean death for some of us. But half of us will survive.

:18:28. > :18:31.Those are the facts. Scottie on Facebook says for example, "This is

:18:32. > :18:38.ignorance rather than citying marred." I would probably say that,

:18:39. > :18:43.I mean, we do have cases where women are in denial as well. We know that

:18:44. > :18:46.they are probably well educated and they do know about the importance of

:18:47. > :18:52.going for their screenings and what it can mean if they don't, but it's

:18:53. > :18:56.about trying to tackle the fear that's inside them and it's a

:18:57. > :19:01.multiple number of reasons as well. We have women for example who are

:19:02. > :19:04.very well educated on HPV and its link to cervical cancer. I have come

:19:05. > :19:10.across a lady who knows everything about it. Is a fray frayed to go for

:19:11. > :19:15.a smear and one of the reasons, the main reason for her in the past she

:19:16. > :19:18.was sexually abused and as a result, that acted as a barrier for her to

:19:19. > :19:22.come forward because it's hardly talked about even within the South

:19:23. > :19:26.Asian community, she had not talked about it to anybody at all. So, it's

:19:27. > :19:31.about trying to tackle some of those fears that exists out there for a

:19:32. > :19:38.until of reasons. Briefly, finally, how are you now? I'm very well. I

:19:39. > :19:42.have injections on a monthly basis which is quite difficult, but I'm on

:19:43. > :19:48.the mend. Good. That's really good to hear. Thank you. Thank you all of

:19:49. > :19:50.you very much. Thank you. You can read more about that story

:19:51. > :19:53.on the BBC News site. He was hailed a hero after stopping

:19:54. > :19:56.a worldwide cyber attack that affected the NHS,

:19:57. > :19:59.but now Marcus Hutchins has been charged for creating

:20:00. > :20:00.a separate cyber attack. We'll speak to an expert

:20:01. > :20:03.who has worked with Mr The 17-year old girl whose case

:20:04. > :20:10.prompted a senior judge to say the state would have "blood

:20:11. > :20:12.on its hands" if suitable mental health provision was not found,

:20:13. > :20:15.will be moved to a psychiatric She had been scheduled to be sent

:20:16. > :20:20.back into a community setting because of a shortage of beds,

:20:21. > :20:22.but she has made several Simon Rowbotham has been

:20:23. > :20:37.appointed by the court So you are independent looking at

:20:38. > :20:44.the best interests for girl X. Thank you very much for talking to us. How

:20:45. > :20:48.did this case end up in the courts? Well, the history of the case is

:20:49. > :20:54.quite long. It started off as a child protection matter. There was a

:20:55. > :20:58.big hearing last year when X had to be placed in Scotland because there

:20:59. > :21:02.were no secure beds available in England or Wales. Then it has come

:21:03. > :21:05.back to court twice this year because she now needs a clinical

:21:06. > :21:10.setting and there wasn't a bed for her. So it's quite a complicated

:21:11. > :21:14.case and it's a long case and it's a pretty sad one as well. She has been

:21:15. > :21:19.in this secure unit, I wonder if you can describe that for our audience?

:21:20. > :21:25.So just to be clear, she was in a secure unit. She is now in a secure

:21:26. > :21:28.unit that is actually part of a criminal sentence that she is under

:21:29. > :21:35.detention and training order. At the moment, and she tends to be quite

:21:36. > :21:38.isolated. I would urge people to always read judgments, but

:21:39. > :21:42.particularly the June judgment because at the end the judge took

:21:43. > :21:46.the time to set out in a lot of detail what the arrangements are at

:21:47. > :21:49.the moment, but it is a bedroom with a mattress that's been stripped

:21:50. > :21:54.away. She doesn't have any personal items. There is no carpets and that

:21:55. > :21:59.is all because at the moment any items that she has, she tries to

:22:00. > :22:08.harm herself or kill herself with. OK. And what are her needs? We don't

:22:09. > :22:12.know. At the moment, at the moment the needs that we're trying to

:22:13. > :22:15.address are the day-to-day needs of stopping her harming herself and

:22:16. > :22:19.that involves all the measures that I've just discussed, it involves

:22:20. > :22:22.restraint. The reason she needs the clinical setting is so that we can

:22:23. > :22:26.find out what she needs. We don't know why she is trying to harm

:22:27. > :22:30.herself. We don't know why she has expressed a wish to kill herself. We

:22:31. > :22:33.need to get it into the clinical setting to start those assessments

:22:34. > :22:37.and once those assessments are completed hopefully we will have a

:22:38. > :22:42.better idea of what X's needs are and what treatment she needs moving

:22:43. > :22:46.forward. Right. And I wonder if the judge hadn't spoken out and spoken

:22:47. > :22:53.out in these terms, you know, State could have blood on its hands, would

:22:54. > :23:00.Girl X have remained in a non clinical setting? Well, it's

:23:01. > :23:05.difficult to say. Certainly, it has helped. We don't know is the

:23:06. > :23:09.reality, but I know that the judge in his judgment yesterday expressed

:23:10. > :23:14.some pessimism that we have A, got the result as quickly as we got, or

:23:15. > :23:18.B, got it to the full extent that we've got. It's a sorry state of

:23:19. > :23:23.affairs that we asked and asked and that clinicians on the ground were

:23:24. > :23:27.clear as to what X needed and it has taken this to get it. The evidence

:23:28. > :23:31.at the moment would have suggested that had it not had the public

:23:32. > :23:35.interest that it has had and had the judge A, not been the most important

:23:36. > :23:39.family judge in the country and B, had such a widely published

:23:40. > :23:43.judgment, had none of that happened, we don't know where we would have

:23:44. > :23:47.been. But the reality is on 14th August, next Monday, she has to

:23:48. > :23:50.leave the placement and time is running tight and I mean this is

:23:51. > :23:54.right up to the wire and it didn't need to be. The fear was that she

:23:55. > :24:03.might attempt to take her life again? That's right. If she doesn't

:24:04. > :24:06.have the right care around her and that care is stopping her taking her

:24:07. > :24:09.life. If she didn't have that care, there is a very high risk that she

:24:10. > :24:12.would have done and the only reason she won't z wouldn't have that care

:24:13. > :24:16.is because the resources aren't there. It is from that prospective,

:24:17. > :24:21.it is my understanding, that it is why the judge made the comments they

:24:22. > :24:24.did, we as society, everybody must take responsibility for what we are

:24:25. > :24:27.willing to fund and what we are not willing to fund and if she killed

:24:28. > :24:31.herself it would have been because of lack of resources and we would

:24:32. > :24:43.have had blood on our hands to use the judge's words.

:24:44. > :24:46.This morning, in an exclusive interview, the parents of two young

:24:47. > :24:48.charity volunteers who died after being swept out to sea tell

:24:49. > :24:50.this programme they're taking legal action against the charity

:24:51. > :24:53.19-year-old Alice Barnett and 21-year-old Summer Robertson

:24:54. > :24:55.died when they were overpowered by fierce currents off

:24:56. > :25:00.They were enjoying the last few days of a ten week charity placement

:25:01. > :25:06.working with deprived young people in a South African township.

:25:07. > :25:10.This morning both families have agreed to talk to you in their first

:25:11. > :25:11.television interview together about what happened

:25:12. > :25:20.to their daughters and why they've come to this decision.

:25:21. > :25:22.Let's talk to Alice's mum Suzie Barnett and her dad

:25:23. > :25:30.Pete Gallagher and Summer's mum and dad Sarah and John Robertson.

:25:31. > :25:37.Thank you very much for coming on our programme. I wonder if I could

:25:38. > :25:43.ask you first of all to talk to our audience about your daughters. I

:25:44. > :25:49.don't mind who goes first. Summer was a typical 21-year-old daughter.

:25:50. > :25:51.She had heard an advert for this charity expedition to South Africa.

:25:52. > :25:56.She had never done anything like that before and decided that it was

:25:57. > :25:59.something she'd like to do. She took ten weeks unpaid leave from her job

:26:00. > :26:03.to go and do this and it is not something you could just turn up and

:26:04. > :26:06.do, they had to raise X amount of pounds themselves to show their

:26:07. > :26:11.commitment that they wanted to go and do it and this was her first

:26:12. > :26:19.one. How would you describe her? Summer was a bundle of fun. She was

:26:20. > :26:24.full of laughter and it is her laughter that we miss most. She was

:26:25. > :26:32.the heartbeat of our family and it made a humongous dent. How would you

:26:33. > :26:44.describe Alice? A force to be reckoned with. Six foot tall. Bright

:26:45. > :26:50.red hair. Incredibly thoughtful. Well-informed and opinionated and

:26:51. > :26:53.really an amazing sense of what was right and what was wrong and if she

:26:54. > :27:00.thought something was wrong, she would do something about it, but not

:27:01. > :27:07.sort of go in blindly. If you questioned her on anything, she

:27:08. > :27:14.always had an answer and so, she felt very strongly about Animal

:27:15. > :27:25.Rights campaigns, Human Rights, you know, she had a deeply profound

:27:26. > :27:31.sense of love and compassion for everything from a butterfly to an

:27:32. > :27:38.elephant to a person, you know, to her, these were all lives, precious.

:27:39. > :27:43.Real strong sense of how sacred and precious life is. Was that Port of

:27:44. > :27:51.Her motivation for this volunteering? Yes, absolutely. Every

:27:52. > :27:55.single word is spot on. She was the finest example of a human being I've

:27:56. > :27:59.ever met in my life. I was so proud that she was our daughter. She

:28:00. > :28:04.wanted to help. Wherever she went, she wanted to help. She would be

:28:05. > :28:06.quite happy to admit that she hadn't decided what she wanted to do with

:28:07. > :28:10.the rest of her life, but she was able to sit down and say, "If I can

:28:11. > :28:16.do something now that changes anything from a community to the

:28:17. > :28:21.world, why wouldn't I do that? I've got 80, 90 years to decide what to

:28:22. > :28:24.do with the rest of my life." We backed her all the way. She did a

:28:25. > :28:27.placement in Cambodia the year before and helped a school out

:28:28. > :28:33.there, who are still feeling the benefits of that and the following

:28:34. > :28:36.year decided to go to South Africa. Again with Summer, this was

:28:37. > :28:43.something she worked hard for herself. You know there, was a

:28:44. > :28:47.project that she found that financially was something she could

:28:48. > :28:52.achieve by herself. Work hard. Raise money. Raise wareness for the

:28:53. > :28:58.project they were going out to support and she felt very strongly

:28:59. > :29:03.about these sort of gap year programmes that cost a fortune and

:29:04. > :29:08.really are glorified holidays and then you do a few days of something,

:29:09. > :29:11.you know, building a wall that possibly will fall down the

:29:12. > :29:15.following week. That wasn't the route she wanted to take. She saw

:29:16. > :29:19.through all that and she thought this genuinely is a well

:29:20. > :29:23.established, well supported project that absolutely know what they're

:29:24. > :29:29.doing and that was why she was drawn to this project in particular.

:29:30. > :29:36.Sarah, on, when did you discover that they had been in the sea on the

:29:37. > :29:42.evening of 4th December 2014 and that they had been... When we had

:29:43. > :29:47.the knock on the door at 11.30 by two police officers. Going into that

:29:48. > :29:50.sea wasn't even on their list of itinerary that they were supposed to

:29:51. > :29:54.be doing. It was a last minute switch by that company. We still

:29:55. > :29:57.don't know why. We didn't know they were at the coast until we had the

:29:58. > :30:03.knock on the door. Summer was missed. They came at 11.30, Summer

:30:04. > :30:08.was missing at sea. Why is she missing at sea? Was she on a boat

:30:09. > :30:13.trip? Within 15 minutes. Summer had been found. Summer was discovered on

:30:14. > :30:19.the beach and then all hell broke loose. Just total confusion. And

:30:20. > :30:24.what we know is that five people waded into the sea that evening. An

:30:25. > :30:37.area of ocean where there was a rip current and the coroner found that

:30:38. > :30:40.although the charity, Lattitude had done a safety check, they were

:30:41. > :30:47.unaware of the risk it could pose and that's really important, I

:30:48. > :30:57.think, for you to get across to people that this can take you?

:30:58. > :31:03.It's really important, the project the girls were working on was in a

:31:04. > :31:08.township in South Africa by the sea. For ten weeks they were in a

:31:09. > :31:14.township, then they were taken by the charity to this remote beach

:31:15. > :31:20.location in South Africa. For a debrief wasn't it? Yes, at the end

:31:21. > :31:25.of their placement. So it wasn't, you can go off and do whatever you

:31:26. > :31:30.want, this was, for some reason, changed from somewhere that they had

:31:31. > :31:34.been for their orienteering programme right at the beginning of

:31:35. > :31:38.the project. It was then changed to this remote beach location where

:31:39. > :31:46.there was literally the hostel and the beach. That was it. There was a

:31:47. > :31:52.generic risk assessment for South Africa and within it were contained

:31:53. > :31:57.certain guidelines. However, moving to a new location, there wasn't a

:31:58. > :32:01.new risk assessment done. There was no re-enforcement even of the

:32:02. > :32:06.guidelines, the basic guidelines that were in the initial risk

:32:07. > :32:13.assessment about beach safety bearing in mind you are taking these

:32:14. > :32:18.young people now to the beach for four days, and the promises they

:32:19. > :32:21.made about these risk assessments being safe, taking local advice,

:32:22. > :32:28.having people on the ground who knew the area and the location, they were

:32:29. > :32:35.specialists in this field, either they weren't specialists, as they

:32:36. > :32:38.claimed or there was a breakdown in communication because this vital

:32:39. > :32:41.information was not passed on to the volunteers.

:32:42. > :32:45.In fact, to be quite precise, what they said was, we'll always do all

:32:46. > :32:50.the research necessary, including talking to the local communities.

:32:51. > :32:53.When anyone else has asked the local members of the community in this

:32:54. > :32:57.area would you go near the sea, the response is, they laugh at you.

:32:58. > :32:59.Because they are absolutely aware of the current. No-one would go

:33:00. > :33:05.anywhere near it. The Department for International

:33:06. > :33:22.Development told us, The guidelines have changed now as a

:33:23. > :33:27.result of what happened to your daughters, and people have to wear

:33:28. > :33:31.life jackets. The rules were already in place, that you didn't use

:33:32. > :33:38.unsupervised beaches, that's where they took them. Very specifically

:33:39. > :33:44.don't swim in unsupervised locations, in dawn and dusk and seek

:33:45. > :33:47.local advice was in the guidelines but it wasn't communicated to the

:33:48. > :33:54.volunteers. Also the country manager was the one who took them with him

:33:55. > :34:00.into the sea. The person who showed them... We don't know specifically

:34:01. > :34:05.he did that, he definitely Waded in to the sea, he was one of the five?

:34:06. > :34:14.He was the first one in. That's documented on the inquest. VSO chair

:34:15. > :34:20.of trustees, statement: The loss of the two young lives was a terrible

:34:21. > :34:24.tragedy and the grief suffered by their families must be unimaginable.

:34:25. > :34:27.We are committed to enshiring they have a full and accurate

:34:28. > :34:32.understanding of what happened in this terribly sad situation. The

:34:33. > :34:37.investigation's been investigated by the coroner. This is the subject of

:34:38. > :34:42.a legal claim so we are unable to comment further. Can I just correct

:34:43. > :34:46.you. That is from Latitude, I beg your pardon. And that's very

:34:47. > :34:51.important. That is why there is no further comment, I do apologise. Can

:34:52. > :34:57.you explain to our audience why you are taking legal action against the

:34:58. > :35:01.hairty? It's the only route we have got available to us to try to bring

:35:02. > :35:05.them to accept that they made mistakes. They've never apologised

:35:06. > :35:09.for anything. They've not even said sorry. They will not accept any

:35:10. > :35:13.responsibility. They still believe they've done absolutely nothing

:35:14. > :35:19.wrong. And we have tried every other way. This really is the last resort

:35:20. > :35:23.for us. We have spoken to the Health and Safety Executive, the Charity

:35:24. > :35:30.Commission, to our MPs, we have spoken to DFID and tried everything.

:35:31. > :35:34.We have tried to talk to them, to Latitude as well, quite early on

:35:35. > :35:39.when we started questioning things they were telling us about, you

:35:40. > :35:43.know, we were told it was a freak wave and Pete was contacted by

:35:44. > :35:48.somebody from Belgium on Twitter who'd read about it in the paper and

:35:49. > :35:53.said, you know, sent his condolences and said I'm sorry to have to tell

:35:54. > :35:57.you I don't think it was a freak wave, I think it was a rip current

:35:58. > :36:00.because he was caught in one with his brother four years previously

:36:01. > :36:05.and his brother died. That is when we started to question, hang on a

:36:06. > :36:10.minute, Latitude, we think it was a rip current, did you know about

:36:11. > :36:14.them. They said no, we had no idea, didn't know about this. The more we

:36:15. > :36:19.questioned and asked for evidence of this, that and the other, the more

:36:20. > :36:23.questions we had and we wanted to speak to the manager asking what

:36:24. > :36:26.went wrong, what happened. We weren't setting ourselves up against

:36:27. > :36:30.them, we wanted to work with them but the more we questioned them, the

:36:31. > :36:36.more they shut their doors to us. What do you hope this legal action

:36:37. > :36:42.will achieve? Well, I think it's very, very important to say that for

:36:43. > :36:45.two-and-a-half years, we've tried every single avenue possible to

:36:46. > :36:51.reach any form of resolution. We never wanted to take any legal

:36:52. > :36:54.action at all. The only reason we agreed to, I suppose ironically in

:36:55. > :36:58.some people's eyes, is because we were told there's not a chance of

:36:59. > :37:03.any financial compensation. As soon as we knew that, and we knew that we

:37:04. > :37:06.couldn't possibly be seen as people who're looking to gain something

:37:07. > :37:12.except for the good of the cause, we agreed to go ahead. We cannot win

:37:13. > :37:17.anything financially. So that has swayed our opinion. There's got to

:37:18. > :37:21.be a point where the company who still to this day won't communicate

:37:22. > :37:25.properly with us, who still to this day, Suzie and Sarah went in for a

:37:26. > :37:28.meeting with the board of directors who didn't know the facts, they

:37:29. > :37:33.didn't know the information of the case and I'm really sorry, my

:37:34. > :37:37.daughter died, I want you to know every single detail and when you

:37:38. > :37:42.meet the two mothers, I want you to be able to talk with some form of

:37:43. > :37:45.knowledge that allows them to know that you've done your work too. So

:37:46. > :37:49.to actually have to go through all of these stages and to come out at

:37:50. > :37:53.the other end with a company saying, we really don't think we did

:37:54. > :37:58.anything wrong, it was all in place, well, it wasn't. The coroner's

:37:59. > :38:02.report says it wasn't. The independent report says it wasn't.

:38:03. > :38:06.They are both public documents. I would urge people toe read those

:38:07. > :38:11.documents. We are not making any of this up, we are not exaggerating.

:38:12. > :38:16.The fact of the matter is, they have never, ever said sorry, they have

:38:17. > :38:20.never accepted any accountability whatsoever and if you can get by the

:38:21. > :38:26.paperwork in the first case, why can't you get by that paperwork in

:38:27. > :38:30.every other case? So, as was brought up earlier, which is a great for

:38:31. > :38:34.instance, we are come up time and time again against, well I'm ever so

:38:35. > :38:37.sorry, I know you have got a strong point but this happened in South

:38:38. > :38:42.Africa it's out of our jurisdiction, so what's the point of having health

:38:43. > :38:46.and safety rules and regulations, having a dirty great big government

:38:47. > :38:49.stamp on the front of your company's document, we are supported by the

:38:50. > :38:52.government and then none of those things mean anything because it's

:38:53. > :38:56.out of our jurisdiction. It's nothing to do with the South African

:38:57. > :39:02.government and, apparently it's nothing to do with our guys either.

:39:03. > :39:09.I think it's worth saying that six months or so after it happened, VSO,

:39:10. > :39:13.the parent company, they got a new CEO and that gentleman, from day

:39:14. > :39:16.one, has said, what on earth is going on here, we need to get these

:39:17. > :39:22.four people in and sort everything out with them and he's been

:39:23. > :39:28.absolutely brilliant. He's remoll Edded everything for us. Phillip

:39:29. > :39:32.GoodWynn says we are profoundly sorry that Alice and Summer died. We

:39:33. > :39:35.can't begin to imagine what the last three years have been like for the

:39:36. > :39:40.family and friends. We recognise that we could have worked with the

:39:41. > :39:42.parents more constructively in the months immediately following this

:39:43. > :39:46.accident. We have stayed in close touch with them and we'll always be

:39:47. > :39:51.available to them. Latitude is no longer a participant in the ICS

:39:52. > :39:54.programme, ICS being the international citizenship service

:39:55. > :39:59.programme. And again just to clarify that

:40:00. > :40:04.point, the reason that Latitude's contract was terminated with the

:40:05. > :40:08.VCO-ICS programme was as a direct result of what happened. Again, that

:40:09. > :40:15.is something that Latitude push back on. OK. Phillip GoodWynn changed his

:40:16. > :40:22.statement and added that in. It's a fact, it's not... So, you know...

:40:23. > :40:26.Latitude say they weren't fired. Latitude have said nothing has been

:40:27. > :40:31.their fault from day one, including not apologising for everything. I

:40:32. > :40:38.would just like to say that from day one, when the incident happened, I

:40:39. > :40:41.mean we were told we wanted to go out straightaway out there and they

:40:42. > :40:44.told us there was no point us travelling to South Africa because

:40:45. > :40:51.you will not be allowed to see your daughter. You will not see her. End

:40:52. > :40:56.of. We haven't. We have never seen them. By the time they came back to

:40:57. > :41:01.this country... You were told don't see them? We were told don't see

:41:02. > :41:06.them. I'm really sorry. The point about the paperwork, the point about

:41:07. > :41:11.the Latitude response to the coroner's recommendations, I mean we

:41:12. > :41:14.had to fight to get that verdict, to get a narrative verdict because it

:41:15. > :41:20.was going to be open-and-shut accident, that's it. It wasn't until

:41:21. > :41:25.we started investigating that we thought, there's more to this than

:41:26. > :41:30.the information we are being told. So we had to do the investigation

:41:31. > :41:35.ourselves and ask volunteers what's happened. We have never been allowed

:41:36. > :41:37.to communicate with the in-country manager who was responsible for

:41:38. > :41:43.health and safety and who took them into the sea. We have never been

:41:44. > :41:46.allowed to communicate with him because Latitude told us he was

:41:47. > :41:52.traumatised, then he was back at work. Then we had a meeting a year

:41:53. > :41:55.ago with the Board of Trustees, it was, he doesn't work for us any

:41:56. > :41:59.more, so we have never spoken to him. We have an awful lot of

:42:00. > :42:04.information we don't know and probably will never know, but what

:42:05. > :42:09.we do know is, when we did get that narrative verdict from the coroner,

:42:10. > :42:11.the coroner, the invest process is not allowed to apportion blame.

:42:12. > :42:18.They're very, very clear on this what you can and can't say. You

:42:19. > :42:27.cannot apportion blame. However, a narrative verdict meant that the

:42:28. > :42:32.coroner made recommendations. It's issued in cases where things can be

:42:33. > :42:34.done to prevent further deaths. Latitude responded, the coroner said

:42:35. > :42:39.in order to prevent further deaths you have to do X, Y and Z and

:42:40. > :42:43.Latitude said we have put the paperwork in place, ticked the

:42:44. > :42:49.bobbings. Our point is, you have the paperwork in place that could have

:42:50. > :42:52.saved Alice and Summer's lives in the initial risk assessment --

:42:53. > :42:56.ticked the box. We don't know where the breakdown is but it's in the

:42:57. > :43:00.communication, staff training, something went wrong because that

:43:01. > :43:04.information wasn't communicated to the volunteers. It wasn't like they

:43:05. > :43:08.thought oh, we know the sea is dangerous, we know we shouldn't be

:43:09. > :43:12.going in at this time, we know rip currents will be there but we are

:43:13. > :43:14.going to do it anyway and take our chances. They weren't given that

:43:15. > :43:20.information but somebody with them had that information. For whatever

:43:21. > :43:23.reason, they didn't tell us. It wasn't passed on. Thank you for

:43:24. > :43:28.talking to us and coming on the programme. Thank you.

:43:29. > :43:34.Some breaking news to bring you now. Clive Coleman is here, he's our

:43:35. > :43:39.legal affairs correspondent. What do you know?

:43:40. > :43:46.This is a very emotive case about a seven-year-old boy. He has a very

:43:47. > :43:50.rare genetic condition called PKU meaning he can't properly met about

:43:51. > :43:53.lie protein so he's limited to 12 grammes of protein a day, equivalent

:43:54. > :43:58.to about three slices of bread. If he eats more than that, he risks

:43:59. > :44:04.suffering serious brain damage. His case is complicated by the fact that

:44:05. > :44:09.he also has severe awe Tim, he's -- autism. He's non--verbal. So it's

:44:10. > :44:16.very, very difficult to regulate his diet. There is a drug that enables

:44:17. > :44:19.you to met about lie more protein. It's incredibly expensive, costing

:44:20. > :44:24.about ?100 per day. The NHS consultant treating this little boy,

:44:25. > :44:29.known only as A in these proceedings, wants him to have that

:44:30. > :44:33.drug and put in what's known as an independent funding request to NHS

:44:34. > :44:36.England. They turned it down, initially saying the case wasn't

:44:37. > :44:44.exceptional. They rode back on that and said that this combination of

:44:45. > :44:47.PKU and the autism does make the case exceptional but said they

:44:48. > :44:52.wouldn't fund the drug on the basis that its clinical and cost

:44:53. > :44:54.effectively hadn't been proven. The family brought a judicial case

:44:55. > :44:58.review on this and they've won on one of the grounds. The ground

:44:59. > :45:03.they've won on is that the judge has ruled that that decision not to fund

:45:04. > :45:07.the drug on the basis that it wasn't clinically or cost effective was

:45:08. > :45:11.irrational. Mrs Justice Andrews this morning said the decision to decline

:45:12. > :45:18.this application on the basis that the clinical effectiveness of this

:45:19. > :45:21.drug/intervention's not been demonstrated by a misinterpretation

:45:22. > :45:28.of the phrase "clinical effectiveness. " She said if

:45:29. > :45:36.clinical effectiveness is properly interpreted, the fact that the drug

:45:37. > :45:41.is useful is overwhelming. It's not a mandatory. The decision now goes

:45:42. > :45:46.back to NHS England with this powerful judgment behind it, so the

:45:47. > :45:50.chances are, I would suggest, he's likely to get it. They also brought

:45:51. > :45:54.this on a wider ground. If they won on this, it would have had

:45:55. > :45:57.implications for the parents of many children who have these rare

:45:58. > :46:02.conditions where the drugs are very expensive. They didn't win on that

:46:03. > :46:06.basis. So unfort Natally, this is restricted to this one child but it

:46:07. > :46:13.looks like he may well get the drug now.

:46:14. > :46:20.Road rage killer Kenneth Noye is to be transferred to an open prison

:46:21. > :46:26.after the Justice Secretary accepted a Parole Board recommendation.

:46:27. > :46:31.Kenneth Noye is to be transferred to an open prison after the Justice

:46:32. > :46:35.Secretary accepted an invitation from the Parole Board.

:46:36. > :46:38.A British computer expert hailed a hero after he stopped a worldwide

:46:39. > :46:40.cyber attack that crippled parts of the NHS has been

:46:41. > :46:51.23-year-old Marcus Hutchins has been charged with creating

:46:52. > :46:53.and distributing a separate cyber attack known as Kronos, which

:46:54. > :46:57.He's due to appear in court in Milwaukee later today charged

:46:58. > :46:59.with six counts of creating and selling the malware.

:47:00. > :47:00.Malware is software which is specifically

:47:01. > :47:02.designed to disrupt, damage, or gain access

:47:03. > :47:05.This is Marcus Hutchins, who is from Devon,

:47:06. > :47:07.speaking about his involvement in derailing the NHS

:47:08. > :47:18.I then saw lots of reports from different sort of sectors

:47:19. > :47:23.of the NHS, and they were just all simultaneously being

:47:24. > :47:28.And I thought, this one thing is hitting all these sectors so it's

:47:29. > :47:33.got to be something pretty big, so I went and I looked into it.

:47:34. > :47:36.I asked a friend of mine in the industry if he had a sample

:47:37. > :47:38.of the actual malware that was going around,

:47:39. > :47:43.I used virtualisation software which basically makes a computer

:47:44. > :47:45.within your computer, so that it wouldn't affect me,

:47:46. > :47:55.She's from the charity the Courage Foundation.

:47:56. > :47:57.She's been in contact with Marcus Hutchins' lawyers

:47:58. > :47:59.in the USA and is trying to help his case.

:48:00. > :48:02.Jeremiah Grossman is a cyber security expert and former hacker.

:48:03. > :48:08.He worked with Marcus Hutchins on WannaCry.

:48:09. > :48:16.He has been released from jail. Yes. Which you would say is good news? It

:48:17. > :48:20.is really good news. At his court dates last week he was granted bail

:48:21. > :48:26.for $30,000 which is really unusual in this case and it speaks to how

:48:27. > :48:30.organised and supportive his group of friends has been. The publicity

:48:31. > :48:35.helped as well. They couldn't raise that money and he was in custody and

:48:36. > :48:38.now he has been released? It took a while to get the money together in

:48:39. > :48:42.the United States and he was released late last night. In the

:48:43. > :48:46.court case you're telling me has been moved to next week? Yes,

:48:47. > :48:53.because of the timing. So he is in Vegas at the moment. He will have to

:48:54. > :49:02.go to Wisconsin to be arraigned formerly and that will take place on

:49:03. > :49:08.Monday. Right, so, Mr Hutchins lawyer says he denies the charges.

:49:09. > :49:10.Are the two reconcilable? The US prosecutor's statement has been

:49:11. > :49:13.misrepresented because my understanding of what was said was

:49:14. > :49:17.that he admitted to writing some of the code which appeared in the Mall

:49:18. > :49:20.ware. Which is a different thing. Somebody can appropriate somebody

:49:21. > :49:24.else's code which has been released on the internet and writing code,

:49:25. > :49:28.which others go on to repurpose and misuse in some way, is not a crime,

:49:29. > :49:36.even in the United States. OK. What can you tell us about the

:49:37. > :49:44.Mall ware that Mr Hutchins has been accused of designing effectively,

:49:45. > :49:48.charged with designing? It is a little curious because it is a form

:49:49. > :49:51.of malware it is three or four years old. At the time it was regarded as

:49:52. > :49:57.a failure. It was written to be resold and used for banking fraud,

:49:58. > :50:01.but it never really went anywhere. When the name came up, we had to go

:50:02. > :50:05.become and figure out what it was because no one actually heard of it.

:50:06. > :50:08.Is it your theory that Marcus Hutchins could have been making this

:50:09. > :50:14.for the purpose of understanding it better? We don't know. The

:50:15. > :50:18.Department of Justice issued the indictment, but it was devoid of any

:50:19. > :50:24.particular evidence. So we really don't know what they're holding on

:50:25. > :50:30.to as far as they think Marcus might have had his hand on it. It could be

:50:31. > :50:33.like he wrote some code, somebody that originally wrote it

:50:34. > :50:38.reappropriated his code and they saw it was his and all of a sudden he's

:50:39. > :50:41.wrapped up in a big mess. OK. I wonder, isn't that the go to defence

:50:42. > :50:52.when you have been caught doing something illegal? My understanding

:50:53. > :50:57.is that he's going to plead not guilty in Wisconsin next week. I

:50:58. > :51:02.think that as the indictment is incredibly thin. There is no

:51:03. > :51:06.indication of what evidence US prosecutors have, if any, and we

:51:07. > :51:10.have to wait until next week. How do you react to what happened to him? I

:51:11. > :51:13.think it's quite shocking. I think the way it happened was quite

:51:14. > :51:17.shocking. He was arrested at the airport just as he was about to

:51:18. > :51:21.board his plane. He managed to speak to his parents now, but his mother,

:51:22. > :51:26.the first thing she knew he didn't get off his plane back from the

:51:27. > :51:29.United States. It is pretty bad and I think that these prosecutions in

:51:30. > :51:33.the US are quite political and the fact that Marcus has such a

:51:34. > :51:38.high-profile, that he is regarded as a hero here. He did an enormous

:51:39. > :51:42.service to anyone by stopping the Mall ware in its tracks and because

:51:43. > :51:46.of when he did it, it is individuals and businesses in the US who

:51:47. > :51:52.benefited disproportionately for that because he did it before the

:51:53. > :51:56.East Coast turn their computers on. It is an unfortunate fact that

:51:57. > :51:58.having a high-profile makes you a target for prosecutors in the US.

:51:59. > :52:06.Thank you very much. Shocking footage has emerged

:52:07. > :52:11.of a woman, who escaped serious injury after appearing to be pushed

:52:12. > :52:15.by a jogger into the path Our correspondent

:52:16. > :52:19.Jessica Parker is with me. First, let's

:52:20. > :52:29.have a look at the CCTV. If you look at the footage of the

:52:30. > :52:33.jogger you can see him running across Putney Bridge. This is in

:52:34. > :52:38.West London. This on 5th May where appears to push this woman into the

:52:39. > :52:43.path of an on coming bus and you can see the bus swerving to avoid her.

:52:44. > :52:50.If we look again at the footage. He is running across Putney Bridge.

:52:51. > :52:55.Away from Putney Bridge Station. As he runs past the woman, this is at

:52:56. > :53:02.7.40am. There he appears to push her. She falls over. The bus

:53:03. > :53:05.swerving there to avoid her. The 33-year-old woman sustaining pinor

:53:06. > :53:08.injuries. The bus stopped and passengers got off the bus to go to

:53:09. > :53:12.her aid. And what are the police saying? Well, they are appealing for

:53:13. > :53:17.people to come forward who witnessed the incident. The jogger is

:53:18. > :53:21.described as a white man with brown eyes and short brown hair, wearing a

:53:22. > :53:25.light grey T-shirt and dark blue shorts and apparently 15 minutes

:53:26. > :53:28.after the incident he came back across the bridge and the woman, the

:53:29. > :53:31.victim, who was still there, tried to talk to him, but he didn't

:53:32. > :53:37.acknowledge her and carried on running, but as I say, police urging

:53:38. > :53:40.witnesses to come forward or the jogger himself, the investigating

:53:41. > :53:43.officer saying the victim was put in extreme danger when she was knocked

:53:44. > :53:46.into the road. It was only due to the superb quick reaction of the bus

:53:47. > :53:49.driver that she was not hit by the vehicle. Incredible. Thank you very

:53:50. > :53:53.much, Jessica. The police say if you have got more

:53:54. > :53:57.information, please, please, please, get in touch with them.

:53:58. > :54:15.The organisers of the athletics World Championships in London have

:54:16. > :54:17.revealed that a number of athletes have contracted gastroenteritis.

:54:18. > :54:20.Those who've come down with it include members of the German team,

:54:21. > :54:23.and the Botswanan athlete Isaac Makwala who had to pull out

:54:24. > :54:26.The organisers of the athletics World Championships in London have

:54:27. > :54:29.revealed that a number of athletes have contracted gastroeteritis.

:54:30. > :54:31.Those who've come down with it include members of the German team,

:54:32. > :54:34.and the Botswanan athlete Isaac Makwala who had to pull out

:54:35. > :54:37.Dr Deborah Turbitt from Public Health England

:54:38. > :54:42.How many people have been affected? 20 to 30 people. What is

:54:43. > :54:44.gastroenteritis? That's diarrhoea and vomiting. So those are the

:54:45. > :54:47.symptoms that people have been experiencing. With Norovirus it

:54:48. > :54:51.usually lasts between 24 and 48 hours and people get better on their

:54:52. > :54:57.own. The important thing, it spreads from person to person. So, we have

:54:58. > :55:02.been advising the athletics organisers about how to ask people

:55:03. > :55:06.to be very careful about their hygiene and cleaning. So that any

:55:07. > :55:11.virus that gets into the environment is not able to spread to other

:55:12. > :55:16.people. And how would someone contract it in

:55:17. > :55:20.the first place? It is directly from another person who has the illness

:55:21. > :55:24.because they're shedding the virus. It comes outs with the vomit or

:55:25. > :55:30.diarrhoea and gets into the environment and goes on hands or

:55:31. > :55:33.surfaces and so, people need to, when they're having symptoms, stay

:55:34. > :55:36.away as much as possible from other people and that's what we have been

:55:37. > :55:40.asking the people who have been affected to do.

:55:41. > :55:44.OK. And as far as you know, it is nothing to do with where they are

:55:45. > :55:48.staying? No, it is nothing to do with where they are staying. Our

:55:49. > :55:52.belief is that some people arrived with the virus and have managed to

:55:53. > :55:55.spread it to other people. They didn't know they were doing that

:55:56. > :56:00.obviously, but it does spread very easily and particularly when people

:56:01. > :56:05.are gathered together. It's the sort of outbreaks we see all the time in

:56:06. > :56:10.places like schools and hospitals and on cruise ships. It's quite

:56:11. > :56:14.common. Right. OK. But it's a real shame for them? It is. They are

:56:15. > :56:17.supposed to be competing and they have been gearing up for this

:56:18. > :56:21.goodness knows how long and training for it? Yes. They will get better,

:56:22. > :56:25.but for it to happen just at the point where they are wanting to

:56:26. > :56:33.compete is a great shame for them personally, yes. Thank you very

:56:34. > :56:40.much. Some messages now from those of you

:56:41. > :56:45.who watched our film from our reporter Amber Hack on the stigma

:56:46. > :56:49.surrounding a cancer diagnosis amongst women in the South Asian

:56:50. > :56:55.community. A viewer says, "It might be time to go for a cervical smear

:56:56. > :57:00.test because Asian women are not getting tested." Mike says, "Working

:57:01. > :57:05.nn an operating theatre we had a British woman into our theatre for

:57:06. > :57:11.an emergency operation. She did not report her abdominal pain until she

:57:12. > :57:15.was actually passing faeces or rally." Another viewer on Facebook

:57:16. > :57:22.says, "There is no stigma to cancer. Stop this now. I never ever heard

:57:23. > :57:27.such nonsense in my life." A reminder this morning, a close

:57:28. > :57:31.friend of, Chloe Ayling, the model who was allegedly held captive by a

:57:32. > :57:36.gang in Italy told this programme that she thinks her friend was

:57:37. > :57:40.misled. She has known Chloe Ayling since she was 15 and who also runs a

:57:41. > :57:47.model agency has talked to Chloe Ayling in the last couple of days.

:57:48. > :57:51.Chloe being a friend of mine, I just think Chloe is o and good girl. A

:57:52. > :57:58.little bit naive. Could she be misled? I just don't want to say to

:57:59. > :58:02.be honest. Obviously she has grown up to when I knew her from the

:58:03. > :58:05.beginning at 15. She is now a 20-year-old woman, but if anything

:58:06. > :58:11.happened like that, I would say she was misled.

:58:12. > :58:15.Thank you for your company. We're back tomorrow at 9am.