15/08/2017

:00:11. > :00:14.Hello, it is Tuesday, it is 9am, I am Joanna Gosling.

:00:15. > :00:17.In his first BBC interview we hear from Phil Green,

:00:18. > :00:20.the agent who was managing model Chloe Ayling when she was lured

:00:21. > :00:23.to Milan for a photo shoot and then kidnapped and held at a remote

:00:24. > :00:27.He was the one who received the ransom demands -

:00:28. > :00:29.which included a photo of Chloe which he describes as

:00:30. > :00:40.It frightened the life out of me, I did not want to look at it any

:00:41. > :00:42.further. It turns out, are not photograph, it was Chloe and she had

:00:43. > :00:44.been photographed while unconscious. You can hear our full

:00:45. > :00:46.interview with Phil Green Taylor Swift has won a case

:00:47. > :00:50.against a former radio DJ David Mueller had originally

:00:51. > :00:53.sued her, claiming that her But she counter-sued,

:00:54. > :00:56.and yesterday a jury We hear from an American

:00:57. > :01:12.journalist who was in court I would get people who would say I

:01:13. > :01:17.am not even a fan of Taylor Swift but I believe in her cause and what

:01:18. > :01:22.she is doing. It transcended her as a star, and it came down to the fact

:01:23. > :01:24.that a woman has the right to go after someone who was sexually

:01:25. > :01:28.assaulted and she was sexually assaulted.

:01:29. > :01:30.We'll be speaking to a journalist who was in court

:01:31. > :01:34.Also one of Australia's leading cosmetic surgeons tells this

:01:35. > :01:35.programme that the link between textured breast implants

:01:36. > :01:38.and cancer is more common that doctors originally thought -

:01:39. > :01:44.We speak to him, and a woman who developed the disease.

:01:45. > :01:48.Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

:01:49. > :01:50.Also there have been two incidents involving trains at London

:01:51. > :01:53.stations this morning - a train has derailed just outside

:01:54. > :01:55.Waterloo Station after hitting a freight train at low speed -

:01:56. > :01:58.no-one was injured in the incident, though passengers have been advised

:01:59. > :02:06.That was at 5.40 this morning, and in the last hour a train

:02:07. > :02:08.is reported to have hit the buffers at Kings Cross.

:02:09. > :02:11.We will have latest on both incidents throughout the programme.

:02:12. > :02:14.Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

:02:15. > :02:17.use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged

:02:18. > :02:31.The Government is to outline plans to negotiate a temporary customs

:02:32. > :02:33.relationship with the EU, immediately after Brexit.

:02:34. > :02:35.Ministers want to ensure that an arrangement,

:02:36. > :02:37.similar to the current customs union, will remain in place

:02:38. > :02:39.until a final trade settlement takes effect.

:02:40. > :02:42.The Brexit Secretary - David Davis - says it will mean businesses avoid

:02:43. > :02:49.Our political correspondent Leila Nathoo joins me

:02:50. > :02:59.What is the shape of what they're talking about? Awana, this is

:03:00. > :03:04.designed to represent a plan, to show there is something the

:03:05. > :03:08.government is united around, Cabinet is united around, something in place

:03:09. > :03:12.to go to Brussels and take to Brussels when it comes to ensuring

:03:13. > :03:18.goods move freely between the UK and the EU after Brexit. The government

:03:19. > :03:21.is putting forward this idea of a temporary arrangement saying there

:03:22. > :03:25.should be a similar arrangement of what there is now, a temporary

:03:26. > :03:28.customs union designed to reassure businesses there will be no change

:03:29. > :03:34.in rules and then further down the line, after that temporary period of

:03:35. > :03:38.perhaps 2-3 years is over, there will be new customs arrangements in

:03:39. > :03:42.place. But I think what the government is trying to do is

:03:43. > :03:47.present this as an achievable, practical way for what they are

:03:48. > :03:50.confident will be, then Brussels agrees to these proposals but it

:03:51. > :03:55.depends very much on what Brussels thinks and the indication we had so

:03:56. > :03:59.far is that Brussels is not prepared to entertain any talk of future

:04:00. > :04:03.arrangements until there is progress on the divorce Bill, on issues like

:04:04. > :04:08.the said Assen is so I think this is the government trying to be on the

:04:09. > :04:13.front foot really and push the negotiations towards where they want

:04:14. > :04:16.to go. Thank you very much. We will talk more about that later in the

:04:17. > :04:20.programme and will also hear from the Brexit secretary David Davis.

:04:21. > :04:22.Rachel is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:04:23. > :04:28.A train has partially derailed at Waterloo station in London,

:04:29. > :04:39.The South West Trains service struck a freight service at low speed at

:04:40. > :04:44.Boxall and Waterloo stations, three people checker injuries but did not

:04:45. > :04:47.need further treatment. 13 platforms out of use and disruption expected

:04:48. > :04:49.to last until the end of today. In a separate incident a train

:04:50. > :04:59.appears to have hit the buffers This image posted in social media

:05:00. > :05:01.appears to show a train being examined by workers at the end of a

:05:02. > :05:01.platform. Mudslides and floods in Sierra Leone

:05:02. > :05:04.are now known to have killed more than 300 people on the outskirts

:05:05. > :05:06.of the capital, Freetown. Thousands more have been forced

:05:07. > :05:09.to flee from their homes. Government officials have warned

:05:10. > :05:11.the number of casualties is expected to rise,

:05:12. > :05:14.with hundreds of bodies thought to be still trapped under

:05:15. > :05:20.the debris, as Greg Dawson reports. While some stare in stunned silence

:05:21. > :05:23.at what is left of their home, others, with their bare hands,

:05:24. > :05:30.are still searching and hoping. But the grim reality is that

:05:31. > :05:34.beneath the tons of mud, This man says he has lost all eight

:05:35. > :05:47.members of his family. Then I started hearing

:05:48. > :05:57.other people crying. This is an overpopulated city,

:05:58. > :06:16.with many living on the hillside in flimsy and unprotected shacks

:06:17. > :06:22.that were crushed by the mud. The Red Cross estimates up to 3000

:06:23. > :06:25.people have lost their homes. Those that aren't completely

:06:26. > :06:27.destroyed are caked This is a city well used to heavy

:06:28. > :06:31.rains, but the scale of the damage Many roads and towns are either

:06:32. > :06:35.cut off or transformed The challenge for rescuers is simply

:06:36. > :06:41.trying to reach those who are still trapped,

:06:42. > :06:43.awaiting supplies of food North Korean leader Kim Jong Un,

:06:44. > :06:53.has been briefed by the country's military leaders on how

:06:54. > :06:56.they could fulfil his threat to fire missiles near the American island

:06:57. > :07:07.of Guam in the Pacific. According to North Korea state media

:07:08. > :07:12.the report said he would watch US actions before making a decision.

:07:13. > :07:14.Last week tensions escalated when Pyongyang threatened to fire four

:07:15. > :07:16.missiles into the sea off Guam. The pop star Taylor Swift has won

:07:17. > :07:19.a sexual assault case against ex-radio DJ David Mueller,

:07:20. > :07:21.who she said had groped His claim for damages,

:07:22. > :07:25.on the grounds that his reputation had been destroyed by false

:07:26. > :07:28.allegations, was thrown out. He's been ordered to pay a token

:07:29. > :07:33.one-dollar in damages. Taylor Swift said she took

:07:34. > :07:36.the action against him to give other victims of sexual assault

:07:37. > :07:50.the confidence to A pensioner who was stabbed while

:07:51. > :07:54.trying to save the life of labour in June Cox has died. 79-year-old

:07:55. > :07:57.Bernard Kenny was awarded the George medal for his bravery after he

:07:58. > :08:01.intervenes when a right-wing extremist attack the MP in the

:08:02. > :08:05.run-up to last your's EU referendum. Mr Kenny was seriously injured in

:08:06. > :08:06.the attack but because of his death not believed to be related to the

:08:07. > :08:08.incident. Rail passengers will learn this

:08:09. > :08:11.morning how much more they'll be paying for some of their journeys

:08:12. > :08:22.from January next year. Regulated fares which account for

:08:23. > :08:25.almost half ticket will go up by the rate of inflation, the exact figure

:08:26. > :08:29.will be published this morning. It is expected to be around three and a

:08:30. > :08:34.half percent, well above average pay rises.

:08:35. > :08:37.A girl has died after a man drove a car into a pizza restaurant

:08:38. > :08:40.Twelve other people were injured in the attack,

:08:41. > :08:43.Police said they're treating the incident as deliberate,

:08:44. > :08:52.The driver of the car, a 32-year-old man, has been arrested.

:08:53. > :08:58.The fat but fit the theory that overweight people can still be

:08:59. > :09:01.healthy is nothing but a myth, according to researchers from two

:09:02. > :09:04.top UK universities. Scientists found carrying extra weight can

:09:05. > :09:09.increase the risk of heart disease by more than a quarter, even in

:09:10. > :09:10.people who are otherwise healthy. Our health correspondence will be

:09:11. > :09:57.and has more. Suggests even a blood test are

:09:58. > :10:02.within the normal range excess weight is still a normal helpless.

:10:03. > :10:08.The rink -- linked people with BMI is over 35 who are healthy but

:10:09. > :10:13.overweight to an estimated increased risk of coronary heart disease of 26

:10:14. > :10:17.and 28% respectively. And third to those with a healthy body weight. At

:10:18. > :10:22.the beginning of the study they were classified as healthy and then they

:10:23. > :10:25.probably went on, and became unhealthy and then eventually some

:10:26. > :10:30.of them developed heart disease, heart attack. The researchers

:10:31. > :10:34.believe excess fat may well store up health problems for the future and

:10:35. > :10:38.getting down to a healthy weight for whatever your sport is vitally

:10:39. > :10:45.important. Sophie Hutchinson, BBC News.

:10:46. > :10:47.A stuntwoman has been killed in a motorcycle accident in Canada

:10:48. > :10:49.while making the sequel to the superhero film, Deadpool.

:10:50. > :10:52.Witnesses described how the woman lost control of the bike,

:10:53. > :10:54.jumped a kerb and crashed into a building.

:10:55. > :10:56.The film's lead actor, Ryan Reynolds, said the cast

:10:57. > :10:58.and crew were "heartbroken, shocked and devastated"

:10:59. > :11:01.Iran says it could abandon its nuclear deal with world

:11:02. > :11:03.powers "within hours", if the United States continues

:11:04. > :11:11.President Hassan Rouhani told the country's parliament.

:11:12. > :11:14.The deal which was struck in 2015 saw the lifting of most

:11:15. > :11:20.international sanctions in return for curbs on its nuclear programme.

:11:21. > :11:23.A box filled with essentials for newborn babies will be arriving

:11:24. > :11:25.at the homes of new parents in Scotland from today.

:11:26. > :11:28.The 'baby boxes' are inspired by a scheme in Finland to give

:11:29. > :11:31.all new mums a starter pack of things like clothes,

:11:32. > :11:37.But the box also doubles up as a cot, as the Scottish Government

:11:38. > :11:39.wants to promote safe sleeping in a bid to reduce

:11:40. > :11:59.And how do you say the name of this budget retailer, Primark? The budget

:12:00. > :12:05.retailer has said the pronunciation straight, and said it liked to use a

:12:06. > :12:07.particular pronunciation. Many users took to social media to express

:12:08. > :12:08.their preference. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:12:09. > :12:16.News - more at 9.30. A great way to get us talking about

:12:17. > :12:20.their brand. The latest inflation figures due out at 9:30am, experts

:12:21. > :12:21.predict inflation will outstrip growth in pay packets.

:12:22. > :12:24.Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

:12:25. > :12:27.use the hashtag Victoria live and If you text, you will be charged

:12:28. > :12:33.Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp has a lot on his plate so early

:12:34. > :12:50.Liverpool hoping to rid the group stages of the Champions League, they

:12:51. > :12:53.are in Germany tonight. Plenty for manager Jurgen Klopp to ponder and

:12:54. > :12:58.he made it clear that night's matches the only thing on his mind

:12:59. > :13:03.of the future of midfielder Philippe Coutinho. The Brazilian is a target

:13:04. > :13:07.for Barcelona but Liverpool rejected two bids for other highly

:13:08. > :13:10.influential playmaker before continues admitted a transfer

:13:11. > :13:14.request last week which the club dismissed. He did not feature in the

:13:15. > :13:18.draw at Watford because of a back injury, Jurgen Klopp admitting why

:13:19. > :13:23.he no speculation surrounding continual is rife, his sole focus is

:13:24. > :13:27.on the game ahead. I really understand everybody is interested

:13:28. > :13:34.in this but I can say in this moment I am really inking about it. -- I

:13:35. > :13:37.can't say. I am here and I will answer questions but in the car, on

:13:38. > :13:41.the way to this Conference, I did not think what can I say because I

:13:42. > :13:48.have to think of other things. Honest and animated as ever. Chelsea

:13:49. > :13:53.have a battle on the hands trying to get Diego Costa to report for

:13:54. > :13:59.training, he is still in Brazil? The Chelsea striker rarely far from the

:14:00. > :14:02.headlines. His -- he is more notable because of his absence, understood

:14:03. > :14:05.he has been ordered to return to the Premier League champions up to being

:14:06. > :14:10.fined for failing to report for pre-season training. He was told by

:14:11. > :14:14.the manager Antonio Costa bath-macro Antonio Conte back in a text message

:14:15. > :14:18.that he was not part of his plans for the season. The striker is

:14:19. > :14:21.currently in Brazil, threatening to set out the remaining two years of

:14:22. > :14:30.his contract if he is not allowed to leave. It's been mooted he has his

:14:31. > :14:35.heart set on legal action as he wants to return to Atletico Madrid.

:14:36. > :14:41.Andy Murray losing his number one slot to Rafael Nadal. He has been

:14:42. > :14:45.blighted by injury, knocked out in struggling all season and Andy

:14:46. > :14:49.Murray set to lose his number one status in the world, taken by Rafael

:14:50. > :14:55.Nadal who will take the mantle for the first time since 2014. It would

:14:56. > :14:59.have been Wimbledon champion Roger Federer but the Swiss has pulled out

:15:00. > :15:02.of the Cincinnati Masters, no Andy Murray there either, Rafael Nadal

:15:03. > :15:07.who reached round to their with these claimed the spot almost by

:15:08. > :15:10.default, being as humble as he is, says he is sorry it comes at the

:15:11. > :15:20.expense of his top rivals. Thank you so much.

:15:21. > :15:29.Now let's go back to the extraordinary story of Chloe Ayling.

:15:30. > :15:33.for what she thought was a photoshoot, but instead says

:15:34. > :15:36.she ended up being drugged and kidnapped and held for six days

:15:37. > :15:38.by Lukasz Herba, a Polish national from Birmingham.

:15:39. > :15:41.She claims he told her she was going to be sold into sex slavery then

:15:42. > :15:45.issued a ransom note to a number of people in the UK for her release.

:15:46. > :15:48.One of those was Phil Green, her agent at the time -

:15:49. > :15:50.who had initially booked her on the job with Lukasz,

:15:51. > :15:52.who was posing as a photographer named Andre.

:15:53. > :15:55.In his only BBC interview, Phil Green - that former agent -

:15:56. > :15:58.He praises Chloe's bravery throughout this ordeal

:15:59. > :16:00.and claims she has been offered counselling but has refused,

:16:01. > :16:02.despite her now being afraid to go anywhere alone.

:16:03. > :16:04.I began by asking Phil what the arrangements

:16:05. > :16:16.First of all, from my point of view, the photographer,

:16:17. > :16:18.a man called Andre Lazio - he called himself -

:16:19. > :16:20.specifically asked for Chloe to do

:16:21. > :16:23.With all clients, particularly new clients, I carry out

:16:24. > :16:28.I asked him who he was, where he was, does he have a website,

:16:29. > :16:31.had he done work previously, what this particular job was for,

:16:32. > :16:33.where the studio is, check it out on Google maps,

:16:34. > :16:39.Then we start talking about arrangements for the shoot,

:16:40. > :16:48.which would include fees, expenses, and then the travel

:16:49. > :16:50.arrangements for the shoot, would she be required to arrive

:16:51. > :16:53.the day before, would the photographer pay for the flight

:16:54. > :16:56.So all that information came together and it ticked

:16:57. > :17:04.There were no alarm bells ringing at any point?

:17:05. > :17:06.Nothing flagged up whatsoever to make me suspicious that this man

:17:07. > :17:10.What checks had you carried out to make sure that this

:17:11. > :17:15.Because she's been speaking and says you didn't carry out

:17:16. > :17:22.She wouldn't necessarily know the checks that go on in the agency.

:17:23. > :17:25.We, as I said, carry out due diligence checks and we wouldn't

:17:26. > :17:27.expose anyone to a situation like that without fully

:17:28. > :17:38.How did the checks all pass, though, when he was not what he said he was?

:17:39. > :17:40.The photographer had a website which told me

:17:41. > :17:44.he'd done previous work, there were models

:17:45. > :17:50.I assumed he'd photographed previously.

:17:51. > :17:53.And every check regarding his studio and location, there was nothing

:17:54. > :17:57.being flagged up for me to think or even suggest that there

:17:58. > :18:02.was anything suspicious about him or what he was proposing.

:18:03. > :18:05.So you and she were very happy when she went off to Milan

:18:06. > :18:11.What was the first that you knew that there was a problem?

:18:12. > :18:17.Well, there was a meeting in Paris three or four months before

:18:18. > :18:26.the ordeal in Italy took place, so therefore the attacker,

:18:27. > :18:30.we'll now call him, actually saw face to face the model in Paris.

:18:31. > :18:33.On the eve of the shoot, there was a terrorist attack

:18:34. > :18:37.in Paris on the Champs-Elysees, a policeman got shot.

:18:38. > :18:42.There was a lot of police activity around that night.

:18:43. > :18:44.And I'd given each other their phone numbers.

:18:45. > :18:46.I said if there's a problem, phone each other and you

:18:47. > :18:59.And a call came through, I think it was a text to begin with,

:19:00. > :19:01.to Chloe, from the photographer, saying my studio's been ransacked

:19:02. > :19:03.while all this activity was going on last night.

:19:04. > :19:06.They've taken things from my studio and I'm not able

:19:07. > :19:10.The photographer, in inverted commas, met the model and they had

:19:11. > :19:13.a brief conversation and 100 euros were handed over to say, well,

:19:14. > :19:20.that will keep you going with food and taxi fares during the day.

:19:21. > :19:24.You know, to be honest, both Chloe and myself felt sorry for him.

:19:25. > :19:27.His studio had been ransacked, he'd already paid for the shoot and,

:19:28. > :19:33.you know, we thought he's getting nothing for his money.

:19:34. > :19:35.He said, well, look, I'll rearrange the shoot,

:19:36. > :19:43.How ironic that then he would set this up in Milan

:19:44. > :19:47.and the same situation, same kind of shoot,

:19:48. > :19:59.You received an e-mail from the kidnapper.

:20:00. > :20:07.The evening of the shoot I was contacted by Chloe's mother

:20:08. > :20:16.And I was saying to her, well, perhaps she's either missed

:20:17. > :20:20.the flight or the flight's delayed, or she had a shoot the next day

:20:21. > :20:23.in Ibiza, she might have thought I'm going to fly straight

:20:24. > :20:29.So I was trying to sort of play it down, there must be a reason why

:20:30. > :20:33.But then the next morning came and we checked,

:20:34. > :20:39.The phone was ringing still with an overseas ringing tone,

:20:40. > :20:42.and we kind of thought that, still, she could possibly be

:20:43. > :20:49.But I said to her mother, look, I think you'd actually

:20:50. > :20:54.In her area it's the Metropolitan Police.

:20:55. > :21:00.She went to Croydon police station and told everybody there.

:21:01. > :21:02.It wasn't until just after 10am on July the 12th,

:21:03. > :21:05.the day after the shoot, when I opened my e-mail inbox

:21:06. > :21:13.I found something incredibly sinister and worrying.

:21:14. > :21:18.It was the first e-mail contact from someone on behalf

:21:19. > :21:24.of the Black Death group saying to me, chillingly, that they'd taken

:21:25. > :21:27.Chloe and I was to find some ransom money for her.

:21:28. > :21:30.What detail was in the e-mail that you got?

:21:31. > :21:33.Who they were, the Black Death group, they gave me the names

:21:34. > :21:35.of three businessmen, UK businessmen, I think that Chloe

:21:36. > :21:47.And said I was to contact any one of these three or all three

:21:48. > :21:52.At that stage no figure was mentioned as to

:21:53. > :21:58.But there was a deadline, the deadline was four

:21:59. > :22:04.days later on the Sunday when they were going to say

:22:05. > :22:10.if you don't pay any money by then we're going to offer Chloe

:22:11. > :22:18.to auction, where she may be sold to Russian Mafia.

:22:19. > :22:20.How seriously did you take that e-mail?

:22:21. > :22:24.My first thought was to ring the police in Italy, and I did that.

:22:25. > :22:26.I then rang the British Consulate in Milan, because I knew

:22:27. > :22:31.They took it extremely seriously, rang the Foreign Office special

:22:32. > :22:34.crimes division who then contacted me to discuss the details

:22:35. > :22:39.And then I was contacted by my own force, special

:22:40. > :22:43.operations from East Midlands, where I'm based, who came

:22:44. > :22:46.to the office because this is the place where I'm receiving

:22:47. > :22:50.the e-mails and they then took over the case.

:22:51. > :23:00.More or less the same time, three e-mails came through simultaneously.

:23:01. > :23:05.And they were just sort of ratcheting up the pressure.

:23:06. > :23:08.One e-mail was from supposedly a different person saying

:23:09. > :23:16.The second e-mail then contained an attachment,

:23:17. > :23:22.In the attachment was a press release.

:23:23. > :23:26.It said this is Chloe Ayling, she's aged so-and-so,

:23:27. > :23:33.her measurements are blah blah blah and she will be offered

:23:34. > :23:39.More or less saying express your interest in this now.

:23:40. > :23:47.Then the other attachment, slightly more sinister,

:23:48. > :23:50.was a photograph that had been taken of Chloe.

:23:51. > :23:55.I must admit, I didn't identify her from the brief look

:23:56. > :23:58.In fact, it frightened the life out of me.

:23:59. > :24:01.I didn't want to look at it any further.

:24:02. > :24:03.It turns out on that photograph was Chloe.

:24:04. > :24:06.She'd been photographed while unconscious and...

:24:07. > :24:12.Well, I didn't know at the time, obviously, but I was told later

:24:13. > :24:16.it was at the studio where she was taken.

:24:17. > :24:19.How much time elapsed, then, between you getting these e-mails

:24:20. > :24:23.and what happened next in terms of her finally being released?

:24:24. > :24:30.Well, we've now reached day three following the kidnap and the police

:24:31. > :24:39.were keeping up this sort of dialogue with the kidnappers.

:24:40. > :24:46.Via e-mail, intercepting my e-mails and sending them e-mails

:24:47. > :24:53.And making some kind of offer just to keep this attacker interested

:24:54. > :24:59.And these kind of conversations, I mean, they were few

:25:00. > :25:04.There might be an e-mail sent in the morning and it might not be

:25:05. > :25:09.until the evening that a reply was given back.

:25:10. > :25:12.So it was tremendously frustrating for everyone involved.

:25:13. > :25:18.It was being treated with extreme seriousness and it

:25:19. > :25:24.wasn't until the Sunday, this is following the kidnapping

:25:25. > :25:27.on the Tuesday, the Sunday we heard there was some activity

:25:28. > :25:33.It turns out that the early hours of Monday morning,

:25:34. > :25:44.the attacker, this Lukasz Herba, walks into the consulate office

:25:45. > :25:46.with Chloe and says, "I'm her friend, she's the girl

:25:47. > :25:55.I've brought her through for safety."

:25:56. > :25:57.And you can watch the second part of our interview with kidnapped

:25:58. > :26:00.model Chloe Ayling's former agent Phil Green after ten

:26:01. > :26:04.on the programme today, where he tells us what happened

:26:05. > :26:06.after Chloe arrived at the consulate and says that after her

:26:07. > :26:12.ordeal she is now scared to go anywhere alone.

:26:13. > :26:16.We speak to one of Australia's leading breast surgeons

:26:17. > :26:18.about the link between implants and cancer, and a woman

:26:19. > :26:22.who developed a rare form of cancer from her breast implant.

:26:23. > :26:25.We pay tribute to Bernard Kenny, the pensioner who was stabbed trying

:26:26. > :26:39.Here's Rachel in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of todays news.

:26:40. > :26:42.The Government is to outline plans to negotiate a temporary customs

:26:43. > :26:45.relationship with the EU, immediately after Brexit.

:26:46. > :26:47.Ministers want to ensure that an arrangement,

:26:48. > :26:50.similar to the current customs union, will remain in place

:26:51. > :27:00.until a final trade settlement takes effect.

:27:01. > :27:07.The EU Commission said the move was a positive step towards phase one of

:27:08. > :27:08.the negotiations and will study the paper carefully.

:27:09. > :27:11.The Brexit Secretary - David Davis - says it will mean businesses avoid

:27:12. > :27:25.We sell about 230 billion euros of goods and services to the European

:27:26. > :27:31.Union each year. They sell 290 billion to us. I was in Bavaria two

:27:32. > :27:35.or three weeks ago. They sell BMWs, electronic goods, they have got an

:27:36. > :27:38.incredibly strong interest in something like this so there's an

:27:39. > :27:43.interest on both sides of not doing each of the harm if you like. Both

:27:44. > :27:45.to do with customs arrangements but also to do with having a free trade

:27:46. > :27:59.area in the first place. Thousands have been forced to flee

:28:00. > :28:02.from their homes in Freetown. Government officials said the amount

:28:03. > :28:04.of casualties is expected to rise with hundreds of bodies thought to

:28:05. > :28:11.be trapped under the debris. A train has partially derailed at

:28:12. > :28:16.Waterloo Station in London following an operational incident. The service

:28:17. > :28:21.struck a freight train at low speed between Waterloo and Vauxhall

:28:22. > :28:25.stations. Three people were checked for injuries but didn't need further

:28:26. > :28:30.treatment. Disruption is expected to last until the end of today.

:28:31. > :28:37.In a separate incident train appears to have hit the buffers at King's

:28:38. > :28:43.Cross station. This picture appears to show the train being examined by

:28:44. > :28:45.workers at the end of the platform. Taylor Swift has won sexual assault

:28:46. > :28:58.case against David Mueller. His claim for damages,

:28:59. > :29:03.on the grounds that his reputation had been destroyed by false

:29:04. > :29:05.allegations, was thrown out. He's been ordered to pay a token

:29:06. > :29:08.one-dollar in damages. Taylor Swift said she took

:29:09. > :29:11.the action against him to give other victims of sexual assault

:29:12. > :29:12.the confidence to That's a summary of the latest BBC

:29:13. > :29:24.News - more at 10am. Let's go straight to Joanna.

:29:25. > :29:27.We just want to bring you some breaking news on the London

:29:28. > :29:38.Underground, we are hearing that smoke has filled a train carriage at

:29:39. > :29:43.Holborn station. Some are saying there was a loud bang, then smoke

:29:44. > :29:50.and the station has been evacuated. We are also hearing that two fire

:29:51. > :29:58.engines have been sent to Holborn underground station. The Fire

:29:59. > :30:06.Service saying two fire engines have been sent. Reports on social media

:30:07. > :30:08.are potentially of a bang and then smoke filling the platform so we

:30:09. > :30:22.will of course keep you updated. Thank you. The Liverpool manager

:30:23. > :30:25.Jurgen Klopp insists the Champions League fixture tonight in Germany is

:30:26. > :30:29.the only thing on his mind and not the future of Philippe Coutinho. The

:30:30. > :30:35.Brazilian is eyeing a move to another club but Jurgen Klopp says

:30:36. > :30:41.his mind is firmly on the fixture. Diego Costa being ordered to return

:30:42. > :30:44.to Chelsea after failing to emerge for pre-season training. He's been

:30:45. > :30:48.to force a move back to Atletico Madrid after telling and being told

:30:49. > :30:55.by the Chelsea manager he's not part of plans for this season. Premier

:30:56. > :30:59.League clubs are to discuss closing the summer transfer window.

:31:00. > :31:03.Currently runs until August 31, they said to vote on the idea next month

:31:04. > :31:07.and Rafael Nadal will take the world number one ranking from Andy Murray

:31:08. > :31:13.this week. But after Roger Federer pulled out of the Cincinnati

:31:14. > :31:18.Masters. A quick update? Thank you. Just to let you know, we will keep

:31:19. > :31:24.you updated on what is happy make at Holborn station, the underground

:31:25. > :31:27.station evacuated after reports of a loud and, after which smoke filled

:31:28. > :31:31.the platform. British Transport Police have treated to say we are at

:31:32. > :31:38.the station after reports of smoke on a train line, the station closed

:31:39. > :31:41.while officers and London fire investigate and London Fire Brigade

:31:42. > :31:45.have separately said they are investigating reports of smoke on

:31:46. > :31:52.the platform, two fire engines have been sent to investigate. We will of

:31:53. > :31:56.course keep you updated. Let me also bring you the latest inflation

:31:57. > :31:58.figures. The Office for National Statistics just putting out the

:31:59. > :32:06.latest inflation figures, the rate of retail the retail price index

:32:07. > :32:11.inflation, the RPI, which is used to set real season-ticket prices rose

:32:12. > :32:18.to two points 6% in July, but according to the ONS. That's the

:32:19. > :32:26.first figure. We will get other figures around inflation. -- three

:32:27. > :32:28.points six. It had been anticipated inflation figures which show

:32:29. > :32:37.inflation outstripping wage growth. The RPI figure at the moment.

:32:38. > :32:41.We will bring you more on that, and we'll be talking to our business

:32:42. > :32:46.correspondent for further analysis. One of Australia's leading cosmetic

:32:47. > :32:48.surgeons has told this programme the link between breast implants

:32:49. > :32:51.and cancer is more common than doctors initially thought -

:32:52. > :32:53.but stresses the condition Women who have breast implants run

:32:54. > :32:57.the risk of developing a type of blood cancer called Anaplastic

:32:58. > :33:02.large-cell lymphoma - or ALCL. Most surgeons believe the disease

:33:03. > :33:05.affects around 1 in 300,000 patients with breast implants -

:33:06. > :33:07.however, health authorities in Australia estimate it

:33:08. > :33:13.affects around 1 in 5,000. The MHRA - which is responsible

:33:14. > :33:16.for ensuring medicines and medical devices work in the UK -

:33:17. > :33:18.says its investigation Well joining us

:33:19. > :33:29.is one of Australia's leading breast surgeons -

:33:30. > :33:31.DR DANIEL FLEMING - who played a key role

:33:32. > :33:33.in the country's health authorities increasing their official

:33:34. > :33:35.advice on this issue. SANDI CURRIE - who developed

:33:36. > :33:37.a rare form of cancer And - MR KEVIN HANCOCK -

:33:38. > :33:42.a consultant plastic surgeon and a member

:33:43. > :33:57.of the British Association Welcome, all of you and thank you

:33:58. > :34:02.for joining us. Daniel, tell us more about the analysis you carried out

:34:03. > :34:06.and what it indicates on the risk of this particular form of cancer from

:34:07. > :34:11.breast implants? As you said it was initially thought this was extremely

:34:12. > :34:14.rare in the order of one in hundreds of thousands of patients, then it

:34:15. > :34:19.was one intensive thousands but the latest evidence from Australia shows

:34:20. > :34:21.it may be as common as one in 1000 patients with textured breast

:34:22. > :34:26.implants but it's important to keep that in context. Compare it to the

:34:27. > :34:30.risk of any woman with or without implants of developing breast cancer

:34:31. > :34:34.in her lifetime is one in eight, another way of thinking about one in

:34:35. > :34:39.1000 is no denying .9% of these implants not getting the condition.

:34:40. > :34:44.It's rare and yet when the stats go from one in 300,000 to one in 1000

:34:45. > :34:48.that is a dramatic shift, why? We are looking for it. It usually

:34:49. > :34:54.presents with swelling around the breast, less swelling with -- less

:34:55. > :34:59.commonly with a mass. Around 2008-9, when patients presented with that

:35:00. > :35:02.took the fluid off and didn't look for the condition but since then we

:35:03. > :35:06.are looking for it and we are finding it often. Tell us about the

:35:07. > :35:10.condition, what is the prognosis? The other thing women want to know

:35:11. > :35:16.is what's going to happen to me if I am one in 1000 to get it. Some good

:35:17. > :35:19.news. For the vast majority of women who get this condition they will get

:35:20. > :35:24.a non-aggressive version of it, it's not going to threaten their lives

:35:25. > :35:27.and it will be cured by the removal of the implants and the membrane

:35:28. > :35:31.surrounding them. Let's bring in Sandy, you developed this condition

:35:32. > :35:40.from a textured implant, tell us what happened. Pretty much I woke up

:35:41. > :35:48.one morning and my right breast had swollen about two cup sizes bigger

:35:49. > :35:53.than the other so I rang my surgeon, concerned with what was happening, I

:35:54. > :36:00.didn't know if I had a rupture so he sent me to get a needle aspiration

:36:01. > :36:06.and some ultrasound is done and he rang me five days later to say I did

:36:07. > :36:17.in fact have a LCL, this particular cancer. What happened then? Were the

:36:18. > :36:24.implants taken up? It was out of his field, he wasn't confident, he was a

:36:25. > :36:29.cosmetic surgeon and I would suggest struggling to go to a plastic

:36:30. > :36:36.surgeon, when he rang me he said he had forwarded all my files onto an

:36:37. > :36:43.oncologist in Brisbane and I would then be dealing with the oncologist

:36:44. > :36:52.so I went to see her, she ran more tests to verify I did have ALCL and

:36:53. > :36:59.the surgeons at the hospital removed both my implants. Was that it, did

:37:00. > :37:03.that fix it? Pretty much, I've had to go back every three months and

:37:04. > :37:10.have tests done to make sure it hasn't returned. And they will keep

:37:11. > :37:21.doing that probably until next year. Just checking on me to see what in

:37:22. > :37:25.fact is happening and it's, I suppose I am a bit of a guinea pig,

:37:26. > :37:30.if you want to look at it like that. Daniel, the fact that taking up the

:37:31. > :37:33.implants can immediately fix this issue makes us, obviously, there is

:37:34. > :37:37.the direct correlation which makes you wonder whether they should be

:37:38. > :37:40.used and there are some calls to ban them, you have one of the implants

:37:41. > :37:46.here, it is the texture type. That's right. You think they should be

:37:47. > :37:52.banned? Very interesting question, three types of implant, a rough and

:37:53. > :37:58.service, smooth plastic bag type service and another type of the

:37:59. > :38:01.polyurethanes foam. The question is why doesn't everybody has moved

:38:02. > :38:06.implants, the reason for that is the texture and the polyurethanes exists

:38:07. > :38:11.to reduce the risk of complications which can shorten the length of time

:38:12. > :38:15.the implant blasts, visibly hardening of the implants in a

:38:16. > :38:20.condition called contracture. What we believe is that patients have two

:38:21. > :38:24.logical choice is, if you want minimum risk of ALCL chooses move

:38:25. > :38:29.implant at except you have a higher risk of other convocations, if you

:38:30. > :38:31.want to reduce that risk of complications choose the

:38:32. > :38:35.polyurethanes implant which reduces the risk of complications but has a

:38:36. > :38:39.similar risk of ALCL as these implants. We would Saber probably

:38:40. > :38:43.isn't a logical choice to choose a textured implant has little or no

:38:44. > :38:49.benefit the other complications and still has this risk of ALCL, albeit

:38:50. > :38:53.a lower risk. Kevin Hancock, an expert in this country says ALCL

:38:54. > :38:55.linked to breast implants is a potential bombshell that husband

:38:56. > :39:02.swept under the carpet for five years. This is of course going to be

:39:03. > :39:07.worrying for anybody with textured breast implants. How do you see it?

:39:08. > :39:13.I think it's very difficult. This is something that was only first

:39:14. > :39:19.reported at the end of the 19 97, was the first case and as Doctor

:39:20. > :39:23.Fleming has said, we are really not sure yet about the significance of

:39:24. > :39:30.this disease. What we do know and what we should stress to patients is

:39:31. > :39:37.this is breast cancer, this is a cancer that arises in the fluid and

:39:38. > :39:42.the tissue surrounding the implant. And is thought to arise because of

:39:43. > :39:47.inflammation in that layer Doctor Fleming spoke about. He spoke about

:39:48. > :39:56.the texturing to reduce the risk of capital sat hard on the implant. Why

:39:57. > :39:59.is it Daniel that the textured implant that is causing this

:40:00. > :40:06.problem... There are a couple of theories. We know that patients who

:40:07. > :40:09.develop ALCL is the result of some sort of long-term inflammatory

:40:10. > :40:13.process and it also seems to be a genetic component in that, that's

:40:14. > :40:17.why some people get it, some don't, they process the inflammation

:40:18. > :40:21.differently and the idea is that they textured implant, the Robins

:40:22. > :40:23.service me a retreat and cause long-term inflammation. The other

:40:24. > :40:28.theory is these microscopic eggs and crannies on the texturing might

:40:29. > :40:32.harbour small numbers of bacteria which could set up a long-term

:40:33. > :40:35.inflammatory process. Kevin, what would you say to patients in this

:40:36. > :40:40.country, if you have the choice between an implant that will not

:40:41. > :40:46.cause you, not likely to cause you this particular issue, does it make

:40:47. > :40:49.sense to avoid it? I think at the moment we don't really know enough

:40:50. > :40:57.about this to make sweeping statements like that. All the

:40:58. > :40:59.professional associations have advised their members to discuss

:41:00. > :41:05.this with all patients having breast implants. And now we are very aware

:41:06. > :41:13.of the way this disease presents which is usually 7-8 years after the

:41:14. > :41:18.implants have been putting and as your other speaker said, presents as

:41:19. > :41:22.a swelling of the breast so now we are very tuned into this and we are

:41:23. > :41:26.very aware that anybody in that situation needs to be investigated

:41:27. > :41:31.further. When you say we are very tuned into it, it's not something

:41:32. > :41:36.that has been widely known about. Is it certain that if someone has an

:41:37. > :41:40.issue and they go to their GP or surgeon and point it out but it will

:41:41. > :41:45.immediately be recognised? How much awareness is there? There is

:41:46. > :41:52.certainly awareness in the popular press. This is again, it's important

:41:53. > :41:56.that patients have long-term contact with the surgeons that carried out

:41:57. > :42:01.the surgery so they are able to return to them if there are any

:42:02. > :42:06.concerns and we have seen in the past with the PIP scandal that

:42:07. > :42:12.getting back to clinics and surgeons can be difficult for patients. How

:42:13. > :42:15.do you feel now about it? Sandy, after everything that happened to

:42:16. > :42:23.you, do you wish you'd never gone down that path of having those

:42:24. > :42:29.implants? Well, no, I mean, I never, when you first go to consult and

:42:30. > :42:37.explain all the pros and cons, anything is a risk, any surgery. And

:42:38. > :42:43.I did not expect to have this outcome so at that point in my life,

:42:44. > :42:52.I got my implants when I was 45, quite late and the ALCL appeared six

:42:53. > :42:58.years after the implantation. Sorry to interrupt but was too mentioned

:42:59. > :43:04.to you as one of the potential cons? Yes and you also get literature from

:43:05. > :43:09.your surgeon, they do go through every thing, the pros and cons what

:43:10. > :43:21.can happen to you, the H and, mind did capture late and mine was

:43:22. > :43:29.Brazilian textured implant and I... Obviously... Breasts are important

:43:30. > :43:36.to us otherwise we wouldn't be lining up to get them done. So, I

:43:37. > :43:40.have done it again, I have been reimplanted and I'm probably one of

:43:41. > :43:49.the few that have and I was lucky enough to find Doctor Fleming who is

:43:50. > :43:56.an expert with ALCL. So with the new implants, sorry, did you go for

:43:57. > :44:03.smoother texture? I rang Doctor Fleming, he graciously rang me back

:44:04. > :44:07.after hours and talked to the about it and then I had my consult with

:44:08. > :44:12.him I said to him, at the end of the day I will be guided by what you

:44:13. > :44:16.tell me, if you are saying no, this isn't a good idea I will go with

:44:17. > :44:24.that because my options of how I was left was totally disfigured so my

:44:25. > :44:29.options were like, just do a complete hysterectomy or get

:44:30. > :44:34.reimplanted. Because I am having to look every day at my breasts which

:44:35. > :44:41.were disfigured, wasn't going to be much of a life for me. So I have

:44:42. > :44:46.taken the course of being reimplanted and I am watching even

:44:47. > :44:52.more closely to see what progress that has. Daniel, when Sandy

:44:53. > :44:56.described she knew there was an issue, it was obvious, the breast

:44:57. > :45:02.has fallen dramatically, what should people look out for as a potential

:45:03. > :45:04.symptom? This disorder most commonly presents as swelling, an

:45:05. > :45:08.accumulation of fluid around the breast, most people with an

:45:09. > :45:12.accumulation will not have ALCL but they should have checked, go see

:45:13. > :45:16.your doctor. Does that emerge quite quickly? Once the cancer is there

:45:17. > :45:20.are, it's not that it's been there and other symptoms won't have you

:45:21. > :45:25.noticed? We don't know the answer to that but when the swelling appears

:45:26. > :45:29.it is dramatic, or for a day or two, it can't morally present with a long

:45:30. > :45:32.switch if the patient presents with, they need to have that investigator

:45:33. > :45:35.but the other thing that is important, viewers who are watching

:45:36. > :45:41.and may have textured implants and are worrying... The recommendation

:45:42. > :45:44.is there is no need for any special investigation or screening for

:45:45. > :45:48.patients who don't have symptoms, they should do the normal monthly

:45:49. > :45:50.checks for lumps and have a mammogram when they reach the aged

:45:51. > :45:54.necessary to have one. Thank you all.

:45:55. > :45:56.The MHRA - which is responsible for ensuring medicines and medical

:45:57. > :45:59.devices work in the UK gave us this statement:

:46:00. > :46:01.Research into this area is yet to provide a definitive answer

:46:02. > :46:03.as to how ALCL develops although there are several

:46:04. > :46:07.ALCL is very rare but it is important healthcare professionals

:46:08. > :46:09.and women who have implants know about it.

:46:10. > :46:12.If you develop a breast lump or swelling around your implant more

:46:13. > :46:14.than six months after having the breast implant you should seek

:46:15. > :46:32.We hear from a journalist who was in court throughout

:46:33. > :46:34.the Taylor Swift sexual assault case.

:46:35. > :46:42.I hear people say I'm not even a fan of Taylor Swift but I believe in her

:46:43. > :46:46.cause, so it transcended her as a star and came down to the issue of a

:46:47. > :46:51.woman has a right to go after someone who sexually assaulted her,

:46:52. > :47:01.and she was assaulted. And the latest inflation figures have come

:47:02. > :47:09.out, showing living costs which are used to set rail season ticket

:47:10. > :47:16.prices rose to 3.6% in July outstripping growth in pay packets.

:47:17. > :47:22.Ben Thompson is here. Yes, it is more than average earnings. We are

:47:23. > :47:26.told rail fares will rise by more than 3.6% and it is more than double

:47:27. > :47:30.the increase we had last year, so again the pressure is on real

:47:31. > :47:35.commuters who will feel this more than most. We should be clear that

:47:36. > :47:40.this is what's known as regulated fares, the ones which are limited.

:47:41. > :47:46.The rail companies have a cap on how much they can charge. The

:47:47. > :48:00.unregulated fares will be determined in September, but 3.6% increase from

:48:01. > :48:04.January. It is known as the RPI measure, used to determine the train

:48:05. > :48:09.fares. The CPR measure, which we pay attention to to get a better view of

:48:10. > :48:15.what's happening in the economy, that rose by 2.6%, still well above

:48:16. > :48:20.what we are earning so we will feel worse off in our pockets and our

:48:21. > :48:25.money is going less far. Rail lobby groups are now saying you should be

:48:26. > :48:32.using the lower one, not the higher one. That is not fair to rail

:48:33. > :48:36.commuters. But nonetheless, as it stands at 3.6% rise in rail fares

:48:37. > :48:39.for passengers from January. Thank you.

:48:40. > :48:41.The government has been setting out its plans for the future

:48:42. > :48:45.It's been focusing on a temporary customs union which could be put

:48:46. > :48:48.in place to help prevent chaos at Britain's borders

:48:49. > :48:51.My colleague Adam Fleming explains how the customs union

:48:52. > :48:57.works at the moment and how that might change.

:48:58. > :49:01.Under the customs union, the EU has won external border for the import

:49:02. > :49:14.of goods from abroad. If import taxes - known as tariffs -

:49:15. > :49:17.are paid, they're paid when that It can then move around

:49:18. > :49:20.between countries with no further The British Government wants

:49:21. > :49:24.something as similar as possible to this arrangement for a temporary

:49:25. > :49:27.period after Brexit in March 2019. So how could a future customs union

:49:28. > :49:30.between the UK and Europe look and how does the government

:49:31. > :49:32.see it working? Our political correspondent

:49:33. > :49:41.Emma Vardy has more. David Davis has been speaking,

:49:42. > :49:44.hasn't he? That's right, David Davis will be sitting down in Brussels to

:49:45. > :49:48.negotiate this at the end of this month and he has talked about the

:49:49. > :49:53.option of this interim customs union being as close as possible to the

:49:54. > :49:58.current arrangements. He says that is to prevent this cliff edge for

:49:59. > :50:02.business, to allow them to adjust to any new regulations. So how long

:50:03. > :50:07.might it take he was asked this morning, said it was hard to say,

:50:08. > :50:18.maybe around two years, may be shorter. But that's all very well,

:50:19. > :50:21.this is the UK setting out what it once, how are we going to persuade

:50:22. > :50:22.the EU to agree to it? David Davis said it is as much in their interest

:50:23. > :50:32.as it is in ours. We sell about 230 billion euros

:50:33. > :50:34.of goods and services I was in Bavaria two

:50:35. > :50:39.or three weeks ago. They sell BMWs, electronic goods,

:50:40. > :50:42.they have got an incredibly strong interest in something like this

:50:43. > :50:45.so there's an interest on both sides of not doing each

:50:46. > :50:47.other harm, if you like. Both to do with customs arrangements

:50:48. > :50:59.but also to do with having a free So you see his argument that if

:51:00. > :51:04.there is an interruption in trade, it hurts everyone. He will have to

:51:05. > :51:09.negotiate this, but this is one set of papers, proposals we will be

:51:10. > :51:13.getting, many more to come but it's taken a year since the referendum to

:51:14. > :51:19.start to get a clearer picture of what the UK foresees in Brexit in

:51:20. > :51:25.2019, and what we are getting today is a real strong indication of the

:51:26. > :51:26.size of the challenge ahead. Thank you, Emma.

:51:27. > :51:29.We can speak now to Stephen Booth, who's the director of policy

:51:30. > :51:32.and research at thinktank, Open Europe, Dr Swati Dhingra, from

:51:33. > :51:34.the London School of Economics - both of whom have carried out

:51:35. > :51:44.Welcome, both of you. Is this as much in their interests as ours,

:51:45. > :51:50.Stephen? Yes, I think so. The question is on what terms do we

:51:51. > :51:53.reach a new agreement. I think the Government acknowledges that at

:51:54. > :51:58.least in the short-term period we are going to want to keep things are

:51:59. > :52:02.similar to the status quo as possible. That helps business,

:52:03. > :52:06.business only has two are just once to a new regime at the end of the

:52:07. > :52:11.transition period, and the EU would rather have one negotiation about a

:52:12. > :52:17.new arrangement as opposed to two negotiations about what we do for

:52:18. > :52:25.the next three years and what we do after that. But is it delaying the

:52:26. > :52:31.inevitable, Swati? What it doesn't do is ask the real question, which

:52:32. > :52:36.is after those few years what is the new arrangement going to look like.

:52:37. > :52:41.There's a big concern that customs union or no customs union is going

:52:42. > :52:49.to make no difference to things like services, telecoms, and tariffs

:52:50. > :52:54.don't matter there. It is very little in today's's report about

:52:55. > :52:58.that. What David Davis has said this morning about what would come after

:52:59. > :53:02.a transition period is either a highly streamlined border with the

:53:03. > :53:08.EU or a new partnership with no customs border at all, which sounds

:53:09. > :53:12.like having your cake and eating it, doesn't it? I think the first option

:53:13. > :53:18.sounds more achievable and practical. The second one is

:53:19. > :53:20.unprecedented and untested, and I think it is complicated to

:53:21. > :53:28.administer because businesses will have to work out whether their

:53:29. > :53:35.growth are destined for the UK or EU market. So describe away a

:53:36. > :53:39.streamlined border can work, because obviously for there to be easy

:53:40. > :53:44.transactions between the EU and the UK, products have to comply with

:53:45. > :53:48.regulations across different boundaries and that then takes you

:53:49. > :53:57.into the territory of things being enforced by the ECJ so it's quite

:53:58. > :54:04.difficult to unpick one part. There are examples of this around the

:54:05. > :54:07.world. It's about reducing technology, the amount of paperwork

:54:08. > :54:12.needed, moving away from physical tracks at the border to electronic

:54:13. > :54:18.checks so things can be preapproved. 99% of goods that come to the UK

:54:19. > :54:21.from outside the EU are already preapproved in seconds so a lot of

:54:22. > :54:26.this is possible but it requires both sides to negotiate this. The UK

:54:27. > :54:30.cannot do this unilaterally. At the moment we don't know what the EU

:54:31. > :54:35.side of the table once from the border, what do they want to

:54:36. > :54:42.enforce? How do you see it working, Swati? I think it will be

:54:43. > :54:47.cumbersome. When we look at the Norway example, we know that Norway

:54:48. > :54:51.still faces about 8% of its import value going into paperwork to be

:54:52. > :54:54.able to comply with rules and regulations to enter the UK market

:54:55. > :54:59.so it won't be very different from that. If anything Norway is in the

:55:00. > :55:03.single market so it probably has better access than what we can

:55:04. > :55:09.expect to have. Those who want the UK out of the customs union say the

:55:10. > :55:13.downside is that we cannot have trade deals with the rest of the

:55:14. > :55:18.world while we are in it. Is there enough of an upside to mitigate the

:55:19. > :55:21.downside of leaving? That is the question that only really time will

:55:22. > :55:25.tell but politically once you've taken the decision to leave the

:55:26. > :55:29.European Union and have an independent trade policy, because we

:55:30. > :55:33.will be out of the EU common trade policy, we will have the flexibility

:55:34. > :55:37.to negotiate our own deals and whatever you think about the Brexit

:55:38. > :55:40.decision, the logic of it is you have to boost the trade with the

:55:41. > :55:44.rest of the world and increase and diversify away from the EU which

:55:45. > :55:48.means the UK will have to have as many tools in its tool box in order

:55:49. > :55:53.to negotiate with other partners and that means having more flexibility.

:55:54. > :55:58.We won't have all of that for the first three years but the Government

:55:59. > :56:06.needs to make sure we have it after 2022. How do you see the position?

:56:07. > :56:11.It is unlikely we will be able to make up the losses from other

:56:12. > :56:14.countries. China and India, the rules and regulations are very

:56:15. > :56:19.different. Opening our markets to them will be very big in terms of

:56:20. > :56:24.what happens to consumer safety, product safety. Dealing with the US,

:56:25. > :56:29.the same kind of concerns come up as we saw in the chlorine chicken

:56:30. > :56:33.debate. This is a good idea to have, but there are games we will get from

:56:34. > :56:38.these new trade deals which will be small compared to what we lose from

:56:39. > :56:44.the EU if we don't get a good trade deal there. To have the sort of

:56:45. > :56:49.freedom of movement that there is within the European Union, we still

:56:50. > :56:54.have to be bound by the health and safety regulations that we are

:56:55. > :56:58.currently bound by, don't we? Largely, we would probably have to

:56:59. > :57:02.comply with those. If you look at what Canada did with the European

:57:03. > :57:06.Union, they went through a lot of regulations they were happy to

:57:07. > :57:10.harmonise or mutually recognise, but then many others would have to be

:57:11. > :57:18.designed for the European market. When we sell to the US we would have

:57:19. > :57:23.a different set of regulations. So all of these things will still be

:57:24. > :57:29.applicable to UK businesses. Thank you. I just want to bring you an

:57:30. > :57:34.update on what is happening at Hogan Tube station. The press office for

:57:35. > :57:43.Transport for London has said the fire at Holborn Tube station is

:57:44. > :57:49.Julie to a fault on the train. They have ruled out terrorism as a cause.

:57:50. > :57:54.It is worth noting that last week there was a small fire on an

:57:55. > :57:59.underground train at Oxford Circus station that was on the Bakerloo

:58:00. > :58:05.line train. That was caused by an electrical fault under the train.

:58:06. > :58:09.The pictures at the time looks pretty dramatic of smoke in a train

:58:10. > :58:13.carriage. Four people treated for smoke inhalation and we don't have

:58:14. > :58:17.details of whether anyone has been affected by smoke inhalation in this

:58:18. > :58:21.latest incident at Holborn but we will keep you up-to-date. The

:58:22. > :58:27.important thing to note is it is not being treated as suspicious.

:58:28. > :58:33.Denzil Lush says people should be far more aware of the risks

:58:34. > :58:36.of a power of attorney, which is a legal document allowing

:58:37. > :58:38.someone to make welfare or financial decisions on your behalf,

:58:39. > :58:47.Right now let's catch up with the latest weather update.

:58:48. > :58:54.It's going to be a lovely day if you like sunshine and showers. If we

:58:55. > :59:00.take a look around the country, you will see some of the weather

:59:01. > :59:04.watchers' pictures from earlier. This is Kent, Ramsgate. As we move

:59:05. > :59:09.across the country, we can see showers. We have the rainbow in

:59:10. > :59:13.Hertfordshire, and a more current picture, this one sent in from

:59:14. > :59:18.Durham with lovely blue skies. We are looking at a day of sunshine and

:59:19. > :59:29.showers, we will lose the rain from Kent this morning. We could see 26

:59:30. > :59:32.Celsius here through the day, but you can also see a lot of dry and

:59:33. > :59:35.sunny weather as we sweep into south-west England. For Wales, again

:59:36. > :59:39.some showers, they will be fewer and further between but more frequent

:59:40. > :59:42.across Northern Ireland and possibly more heavy here as well, but

:59:43. > :59:47.nonetheless still a lot of dry weather. A lot of dry weather across

:59:48. > :59:53.Scotland but you will have more frequent showers, some will be heavy

:59:54. > :59:57.and thundery. In north-east England, heading down the eastern side of the

:59:58. > :00:00.Pennines you can see a mixture of sunshine and showers but some of

:00:01. > :00:05.those showers could be heavy. Through the evening and overnight

:00:06. > :00:08.the showers tend to fade and we are looking at clearing skies, a cooler

:00:09. > :00:11.night than the one just gone but by the end of the night we will have

:00:12. > :00:17.stronger winds and rain arriving into the west of Northern Ireland.

:00:18. > :00:20.That's courtesy of this area of low pressure with its weather front. The

:00:21. > :00:25.squeeze on the isobars is telling you it will be windy. Gale is

:00:26. > :00:30.possible through the Irish Sea and with exposure in the west. The rain

:00:31. > :00:34.is coming in smartly across Northern Ireland and also Scotland, but not

:00:35. > :00:38.as quickly across north-west England, Wales and into south-west

:00:39. > :00:42.England. Where we have this combination with lower temperatures,

:00:43. > :00:46.it will feel cooler, the coolness exacerbated by the rain and wind,

:00:47. > :00:52.but as we drift east, increasing amounts of cloud ahead of this

:00:53. > :00:56.weather front. The further east you travel, the more likely you are to

:00:57. > :01:01.see some sunshine with temperatures up to 23. As we move into Thursday,

:01:02. > :01:08.that rain crosses us overnight. We have the remnants during Thursday,

:01:09. > :01:11.then it's replaced once again by sunshine and showers. Showers fairly

:01:12. > :01:16.hit and miss, not everyone will catch one. If you are in the

:01:17. > :01:20.sunshine, high temperatures up to 24 in London, will feel quite pleasant,

:01:21. > :01:36.as in Newcastle with high temperatures of 21.

:01:37. > :01:44.as in Newcastle with high temperatures of 21. Member jurors

:01:45. > :01:49.temperatures down a touch, it will feel that much cooler. As for the

:01:50. > :01:52.weekend, mixed fortunes, as you come further south, looking at sunshine

:01:53. > :01:57.and showers, a bit more rain showers in the north of the country, if you

:01:58. > :02:00.are wondering about Sunday, the forecast changing but at the moment

:02:01. > :02:04.looks like for Northern Ireland, Scotland, northern England and North

:02:05. > :02:10.Wales, we will see some rain but try as we push further south!

:02:11. > :02:12.Hello, it's Tuesday, it's ten o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling

:02:13. > :02:17.We hear more from the man who was Chloe Ayling's agent

:02:18. > :02:19.when the model was drugged and kidnapped in Milan.

:02:20. > :02:25.Phil Green says she is coping well after her traumatic ordeal.

:02:26. > :02:31.She clearly had gone through a tremendous amount of suffering and

:02:32. > :02:36.had an horrific ordeal and I know that if that had happened to 95% of

:02:37. > :02:38.the other models in my agency they would have crumbled.

:02:39. > :02:43.You can hear the second part of our interview later this hour.

:02:44. > :02:50.Also we speak to a retired judge who says it's too risky just giving one

:02:51. > :02:52.person power of attorney which allows them to make welfare or

:02:53. > :02:54.financial decisions on your behalf. Taylor Swift has won her

:02:55. > :02:56.case against the former We hear from an American journalist

:02:57. > :03:00.who sat through the court case and says this is a win

:03:01. > :03:11.for all women. She stood up for herself, not just

:03:12. > :03:15.for herself and women in general and that is what she spoke to, she

:03:16. > :03:18.maintained that stands and you could tell she was up there not just

:03:19. > :03:25.speaking for herself but to show women out there it's OK to stand up

:03:26. > :03:29.for what you believe in. We've also hear from a lawyer in this country

:03:30. > :03:37.who hopes it will empower more women in this country to speak out.

:03:38. > :03:44.Here's Rachel in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of todays news.

:03:45. > :03:49.The government is to outline plans to negotiate a temporary customs

:03:50. > :03:54.relationship with the EU after Brexit. The mistress want to ensure

:03:55. > :03:57.an arrangement similar to the current customs union will remain in

:03:58. > :04:01.place until a final trade settlement takes effect. Be you commission says

:04:02. > :04:05.the move is a positive step towards a starting phase one of the

:04:06. > :04:10.negotiations. And they will study the position paper carefully. The

:04:11. > :04:11.Brexit secretary David Davis says it means businesses will avoid

:04:12. > :04:19.unnecessary disruption. We sell about 230 billion euros of

:04:20. > :04:28.goods and services to the European Union each year, they sell 290

:04:29. > :04:33.billion to us. I was in Bavaria 200 -- I was in Bavaria a couple of

:04:34. > :04:36.weeks ago, they sell Alex on goods and they have an incredibly strong

:04:37. > :04:40.interest in something like this, there is an interest in both sides

:04:41. > :04:43.on not doing it the hard, both to do with customs arrangements and to do

:04:44. > :04:44.with having a free trade area in the first place.

:04:45. > :04:47.Mudslides and floods in Sierra Leone are now known to have killed more

:04:48. > :04:49.than 300 people on the outskirts of the capital, Freetown.

:04:50. > :04:52.Thousands more have been forced to flee from their homes.

:04:53. > :04:54.Government officials have warned the number of casualties

:04:55. > :04:56.is expected to rise, with hundreds of bodies thought to

:04:57. > :05:00.The mayor of Freetown says at least 270 bodies have

:05:01. > :05:10.Millions of rail users will see a 3.6% increase in many rail

:05:11. > :05:19.Train operators are allowed to raise regulated fares -

:05:20. > :05:22.which account for nearly half of all tickets - by as much

:05:23. > :05:25.as the Retail Prices Index figure for July, which rose by 3.6%.

:05:26. > :05:27.The headline Consumer Price Index inflation was 2.6% in

:05:28. > :05:35.A train has partially derailed at Waterloo station in London,

:05:36. > :05:40.The South West Trains service struck a freight train at low

:05:41. > :05:42.speed between Waterloo and Vauxhall stations.

:05:43. > :05:44.Three people were checked for injuries, but did not

:05:45. > :05:48.Thirteen platforms are out of use, with disruption excepted to last

:05:49. > :05:58.In a separate incident a train has hit the buffers

:05:59. > :06:02.A spokesperson from Great Northern said the train came into contact

:06:03. > :06:05.with the buffers at low speed at twenty past six this morning.

:06:06. > :06:18.The Rail Accident Investigation Branch has been informed.

:06:19. > :06:23.London's Holborn Underground station has been closed as emergency

:06:24. > :06:28.services respond to a fire alert and reports of smoke. Ten firefighters

:06:29. > :06:32.and two engines presented to the station, an eyewitness on a train at

:06:33. > :06:36.the station said smoke-filled one of the characters. Transport for London

:06:37. > :06:42.said the problem was caused by a defective train. -- smoke-filled one

:06:43. > :06:43.of the carriages. A pensioner who was stabbed

:06:44. > :06:46.while trying to save the life of the Labour MP,

:06:47. > :06:48.Jo Cox, has died. Bernard Kenny, who was 79,

:06:49. > :06:50.was awarded the George Medal for his bravery -

:06:51. > :06:52.after he intervened when a right-wing extremist attacked

:06:53. > :06:55.the MP in the run-up to last Mr Kenny was seriously

:06:56. > :06:58.injured in the attack, but the cause of his death is not

:06:59. > :07:01.believed to be related A girl has died after a man drove

:07:02. > :07:05.a car into a pizza restaurant Twelve other people

:07:06. > :07:08.were injured in the attack, Police said they're treating

:07:09. > :07:11.the incident as deliberate, The driver of the car, a 32-year-old

:07:12. > :07:16.man, has been arrested. Iran says it could abandon

:07:17. > :07:19.its nuclear deal with world powers "within hours",

:07:20. > :07:21.if the United States continues President Hassan Rouhani told

:07:22. > :07:24.the country's parliament. The deal which was struck in 2015

:07:25. > :07:27.saw the lifting of most international sanctions in return

:07:28. > :07:41.for curbs on its nuclear programme. The pop star Taylor Swift has won

:07:42. > :07:44.a sexual assault case against ex-radio DJ David Mueller,

:07:45. > :07:46.who she said had groped His claim for damages,

:07:47. > :07:53.on the grounds that his reputation had been destroyed by false

:07:54. > :07:56.allegations, was thrown out. He's been ordered to pay a token

:07:57. > :07:59.one-dollar in damages. Taylor Swift said she took

:08:00. > :08:03.the action against him to give other victims of sexual assault

:08:04. > :08:18.the confidence to The fat outfit theory that

:08:19. > :08:24.overweight people can still be healthy is nothing but is according

:08:25. > :08:28.to researchers from two top UK universities. Scientists from

:08:29. > :08:31.Cambridge and Imperial College London found being obese or

:08:32. > :08:34.overweight increases your risk of coronary heart disease by 28% even

:08:35. > :08:40.if you are otherwise healthy and act.

:08:41. > :08:52.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

:08:53. > :09:00.Still to come, we will hear from Phil Green, the agent of the model

:09:01. > :09:05.Chloe Aileen who was kidnapped and taken to Italy.

:09:06. > :09:15.Liverpool are hoping to rip reach the group stages of the Champions

:09:16. > :09:19.League for the first time in three years. They are in Germany this

:09:20. > :09:23.evening and Jurgen Klopp has made it clear the match tonight is the only

:09:24. > :09:28.thing on his mind and not the future of the leak could you. They've

:09:29. > :09:34.bazillion is a target for Barcelona but Liverpool have rejected two bids

:09:35. > :09:37.for him before Coutinho submitted a transfer request which was

:09:38. > :09:40.dismissed. He didn't play at the weekend because of a back injury and

:09:41. > :09:45.the manager says he knows speculation is rife but his sole

:09:46. > :09:50.focus is on the game ahead. I really understand everybody is interested

:09:51. > :09:57.in this but I can't say I am really thinking about it. It's just, I am

:09:58. > :10:00.here, but I am not in the car, on the way to the Conference, I did not

:10:01. > :10:05.think what could I say if they ask or whatever because I have to think

:10:06. > :10:08.about other things. It's understood Diego Costa has been ordered to

:10:09. > :10:11.return to the Premier League champions after being fined for

:10:12. > :10:16.failing to report for pre-season training. He was told by the

:10:17. > :10:18.miniature fire text in June that he wasn't part of his plans this

:10:19. > :10:22.season, the striker currently in Brazil, threatening to sit out the

:10:23. > :10:27.remaining two years of his contract if he is not allowed to leave. The

:10:28. > :10:31.Spanish international is considering legal action and has his heart set

:10:32. > :10:34.on returning to Atletico Madrid although Chelsea are demanding his

:10:35. > :10:39.return before any decision on his future is made. Premier League clubs

:10:40. > :10:41.are to take a vote on the idea of closing the transfer window before

:10:42. > :10:47.the start of the season. The window runs until August 31, it's been a

:10:48. > :10:50.problem this season with the future of several high-profile players on

:10:51. > :10:54.results. Under the proposals are new league sides would not be able to

:10:55. > :10:57.add to their squads once the season kicks off but it wouldn't apply to

:10:58. > :11:02.clubs from Europe signing players from England. If it is past it would

:11:03. > :11:06.come into effect next season. Kyle Edmund continues to struggle in the

:11:07. > :11:11.build-up to the US Open, beaten in the first round of the Cincinnati

:11:12. > :11:14.Masters by a Portuguese opponent in three sets. He was knocked out of

:11:15. > :11:17.the first-round of the Montreal Masters last week. The final Grand

:11:18. > :11:23.Slam of the year begins at the end the month. Andy Murray will be

:11:24. > :11:27.replaced as the World War I by Rafael Nadal at the end of the

:11:28. > :11:30.tournament this week. Andy Murray is not playing because of an ongoing

:11:31. > :11:34.problem, the Spaniard will top the world rankings for the first time in

:11:35. > :11:37.three years. England cricketers stepped into the unknown this week

:11:38. > :11:43.when they play their first day night Test match, the first played in this

:11:44. > :11:47.country. The opening series against the West Indies. The 2pm on

:11:48. > :11:51.Thursday, lunch at 4pm, plate finishing at 9pm. The game will be

:11:52. > :11:58.played with a pink box showing up at under the lights, a new experience

:11:59. > :12:02.for bowler Stuart broad. The pink ball county round, the guys said the

:12:03. > :12:07.ball went quite soft quite quickly, we are just going to have to be so

:12:08. > :12:11.adaptable on the day. We are going in with a completely clear mind,

:12:12. > :12:16.completely learning on the job, almost. The team that will, more

:12:17. > :12:23.successful this week is the team that reacts quicker. And that is all

:12:24. > :12:26.your support for now. I will be back with more later. Thank you so much.

:12:27. > :12:29.Power of attorney is a legal document that allows someone else

:12:30. > :12:30.to look after your property and financial affairs.

:12:31. > :12:32.It's increasingly common - used especially by older

:12:33. > :12:34.people who can no longer manage their everyday lives.

:12:35. > :12:37.Nearly 650,000 applications were made last year in England

:12:38. > :12:38.and Wales to register powers of attorney ...

:12:39. > :12:43.But the judge who wrote the legal guidebook to powers of attorney,

:12:44. > :12:47.who was the head of the court of protection for 20 years,

:12:48. > :12:50.has told the BBC he would never sign one himself, they have few

:12:51. > :12:52.safeguards, and the ministry of justice is "disingenuous"

:12:53. > :13:01.Let's speak now to Today Programme correspondent Sanchia Berg who's

:13:02. > :13:20.Tell us more about this, it is extraordinary when the judge Europe

:13:21. > :13:27.and says he wouldn't have won. He says there are a few safeguards,

:13:28. > :13:29.although there is the office of the public partying, part of the

:13:30. > :13:32.Ministry of Justice which investigates complaints they will

:13:33. > :13:39.only investigate once someone alerts on to something. Dental luxury for

:13:40. > :13:43.20 years presided over more than 6000 of these ensuring our lasting

:13:44. > :13:48.power of attorney cases, he has seen many examples where problems arose

:13:49. > :13:53.and they just weren't caught in time and you will hear from a viewer

:13:54. > :13:58.about a problem that went on for years, her father's estate

:13:59. > :14:01.effectively looted and nothing they could do because the complaint were

:14:02. > :14:05.not investigated. Now complaints are more likely to be investigated but

:14:06. > :14:07.nonetheless, the judge believes people should be far more aware of

:14:08. > :14:13.the risks. OK, thank you. Joining us now, Lesley Willetts

:14:14. > :14:16.and her husband Brian Felton have experienced the problems

:14:17. > :14:18.of the Power of Attorney themselves. Lesley's father, a Dunkirk veteran

:14:19. > :14:20.with dementia was left destitute after he gave his neighbours

:14:21. > :14:22.power of attorney. Denzil Lush is a senior judge

:14:23. > :14:25.who headed the Court of Protection for 20 years and adjudicated 6,000

:14:26. > :14:28.power of attorney cases. He says the power of

:14:29. > :14:44.attorney has few safeguards Thank you both for joining us.

:14:45. > :14:49.Leslie, it sounds like you had a turbo situation, talk us through

:14:50. > :14:54.what happened to your father and power of attorney was given to a

:14:55. > :14:58.neighbour. -- a terrible situation. Basically when the neighbour to

:14:59. > :15:02.guard a power of attorney in 2003 and he had a will made out at the

:15:03. > :15:09.same time it was effectively, we were just literally hard from any

:15:10. > :15:13.protest, any insight into the financial affairs of my father, even

:15:14. > :15:18.his day-to-day care seemed to be lost to us in a sense. And the

:15:19. > :15:24.attorney was able to try and isolate him from our family and also

:15:25. > :15:28.effectively take his money and concealed the fact he had taken the

:15:29. > :15:32.money. He had complete power and there was no further week ago, no

:15:33. > :15:38.one we could ask what do we do about this and was only when he registered

:15:39. > :15:44.the power of attorney in 2004, this was 18 months later, when in effect

:15:45. > :15:51.he had used all my father's savings and in effect he had to sell my

:15:52. > :15:55.father's house, so he had to register the power of attorney for

:15:56. > :15:58.that, our family objected but the registration went through

:15:59. > :16:02.nonetheless but the cause was Yorkshire County Council came on

:16:03. > :16:08.board at the time, they'd had letters of concern by other

:16:09. > :16:14.neighbours that we decided to go for an appeal hearing in 2005. Sorry to

:16:15. > :16:19.interrupt, it's absolutely extraordinary to hear you describe

:16:20. > :16:24.what happened and to hear you say your father's house was being sold

:16:25. > :16:27.under him and up until that point none of you knew what was going on

:16:28. > :16:35.and you were powerless to do anything?

:16:36. > :16:41.And it wasn't until the appeal hearing that we suspected there was

:16:42. > :16:49.financial abuse. We had to prove the unsuitability of the attorney which

:16:50. > :16:53.is incredibly difficult to do. We didn't have any evidence, all we

:16:54. > :16:58.could do was protect ourselves and question why someone can get the

:16:59. > :17:03.power of attorney so easily. Can I just say, at the appeal hearing the

:17:04. > :17:11.attorney was required to submit annual accounts which we were really

:17:12. > :17:16.relieved about, so at least we knew there was some accountability for

:17:17. > :17:20.his finances going on. When you say it was hard to question, well you

:17:21. > :17:27.question why it is that someone can get power of attorney so easily.

:17:28. > :17:39.This was a neighbour. How did it happen? It was literally groom,

:17:40. > :17:44.isolate, abuse. I was groomed, my father was groomed, I think social

:17:45. > :17:51.services were groomed. Once that happened, he was supposed to come

:17:52. > :17:54.down to us in 2003 but he was registered, who was in a

:17:55. > :17:58.psychogeriatric ward at the time. We had arranged to have him discharged

:17:59. > :18:04.to our care but for some reason social services allowed him to be

:18:05. > :18:08.discharged to the neighbour's care, registered them as his carer and

:18:09. > :18:13.within days were taken to a solicitor, had a power of attorney

:18:14. > :18:23.made out and will to his benefit. So this was someone you had all trusted

:18:24. > :18:33.absolutely? Yes, well I so. Will bring in Denzel. You adjudicated

:18:34. > :18:37.over 6000 cases in that period where there have been issues and you now

:18:38. > :18:45.say you would not use one yourself. Tell us more about your concerns.

:18:46. > :18:52.Yes, I would prefer not to use one myself because I would rather go for

:18:53. > :18:56.the default position, which is where the court appoints somebody to look

:18:57. > :19:02.after a deputy to look after your property, and you are required to

:19:03. > :19:07.account annually. You have to give a security bond which is a sort of

:19:08. > :19:12.insurance policy that covers only default, and usually get a visit and

:19:13. > :19:15.support from the office of the Public Guardian. Servers that

:19:16. > :19:20.effectively how it used to work and how you would prefer for it to

:19:21. > :19:29.continue working in your case? What's happened in Frank Willet's

:19:30. > :19:33.case would not happen to quite the same extent now. This was an

:19:34. > :19:38.enduring power of attorney, they have since been replaced in effect

:19:39. > :19:44.by things called lasting powers of attorney. The office of the public

:19:45. > :19:51.Guardian tends to initiate applications to the Court of

:19:52. > :20:01.Protection rather than relatives to where they are concerned that has

:20:02. > :20:06.been some misappropriation. In your experience of looking at these, have

:20:07. > :20:11.you seen many instances of where it has worked really well? Because

:20:12. > :20:15.obviously there are people who are vulnerable, they cannot manage their

:20:16. > :20:22.affairs, family and loved ones need to work out a way of doing it in the

:20:23. > :20:27.best way they can. Of course. I sort your liver pathology, if you are

:20:28. > :20:31.with me. I saw the cases where they all went pear shaped which is

:20:32. > :20:37.possibly why I wouldn't make one myself. I'm sure there are many

:20:38. > :20:41.cases, the majority of cases where these do work satisfactorily. Is

:20:42. > :20:45.there a way the system could be made better? Because you are saying you

:20:46. > :20:52.would opt out of this particular way of handling affairs. Is it time for

:20:53. > :20:58.everybody to actually look to another direction? Or can this

:20:59. > :21:02.system be improved? Because as it stands it has to be a case of where

:21:03. > :21:06.not only something has gone wrong but it has been discovered and you

:21:07. > :21:12.can prove what's happened and that takes a lot of time, expense and

:21:13. > :21:19.heartbreak. I think things can be improved. I think the office of the

:21:20. > :21:22.Public Guardian is looking into the possibility of possibly a security

:21:23. > :21:32.bond to cover attorney ships where there is a default position. Also,

:21:33. > :21:35.in the Republic of Ireland they have a state-of-the-art piece of

:21:36. > :21:38.legislation which requires attorneys to produce accounts to their

:21:39. > :21:45.equivalent of the Public Guardian each year. When you hear Leslie

:21:46. > :21:49.describing what happened, that the neighbour could get power of

:21:50. > :21:54.attorney so easily, what do you think? It is surely not beyond the

:21:55. > :22:07.realms of possibility is to stop that happening? Just make it harder?

:22:08. > :22:14.This is one of the big concerns, that the Public Guardian is keen to

:22:15. > :22:18.get as many possible lasting power of attorney applications done online

:22:19. > :22:23.and digitally and there are concerns that what existing safeguards there

:22:24. > :22:33.are are being dampened down all the time.

:22:34. > :22:39.So it could easily be the case that anyone watching this programme with

:22:40. > :22:45.a vulnerable relative could give power of attorney to somebody who

:22:46. > :22:51.may not do the right thing by them or their family, there's nothing to

:22:52. > :22:58.stop that happening? Yes, that is possible. One of the interesting

:22:59. > :23:03.things as well is Leslie's Father's case was a little unusual insofar as

:23:04. > :23:09.in my experience it is family members that are usually the

:23:10. > :23:16.abusers. I remember going to a conference in Melbourne, Australia.

:23:17. > :23:20.And they came up with... The university did some research saying

:23:21. > :23:24.you are twice as likely to be ripped off by your son as your daughter and

:23:25. > :23:28.I thought that was fascinating, and I came back and looked at my own

:23:29. > :23:36.statistics which run into many hundreds and more than that. And I

:23:37. > :23:41.worked out that 68% of the abusers of lasting Powers of attorney are

:23:42. > :23:50.the child, the donor, the person who created the power, of those 36% are

:23:51. > :23:56.sons, 22% are daughters, and the Remainer are sons and daughters

:23:57. > :24:00.together. Leslie, a final for from you because people watching will be

:24:01. > :24:05.horrified to find out what happened to you and if they have vulnerable

:24:06. > :24:08.relatives they are concerned about, they could be worried about what

:24:09. > :24:14.might potentially happen to them. After what you have been through,

:24:15. > :24:19.what advice would you give? To be honest, I don't know. There's no

:24:20. > :24:22.where people can go to get independent advice. Once you get

:24:23. > :24:28.entangled with the Court of Protection, it is very hard to

:24:29. > :24:37.manoeuvre your way around it and it can become extremely expensive. Can

:24:38. > :24:42.I mention one thing that judge Lush is bringing up, about juicing

:24:43. > :24:51.accounts. My father 's attorney was ordered to produce accounts on an

:24:52. > :24:56.annual basis and he duly did in 2005 and 2006, but when I became court

:24:57. > :25:00.deputy in 2008 when the attorney ship was finally revoked, it was

:25:01. > :25:05.obvious within days that the Court accounts review team had ignored

:25:06. > :25:16.gross breaches of their own rules and regulations. I mean my father's

:25:17. > :25:19.proceeds from his house sales... Lots of complex things were

:25:20. > :25:25.happening, how much was lost in the end and how much has it cost you?

:25:26. > :25:30.Everything was lost. We have actually High Court orders, one

:25:31. > :25:36.overturned the will and the other was a High Court order that was

:25:37. > :25:42.380,000, now stands at more because there's an 8% interest rate added to

:25:43. > :25:47.it, but do we get anything back? So far not and I'm not terribly

:25:48. > :25:51.helpful. The Court of Protection we are still fighting because they

:25:52. > :25:58.refuse to accept accountability. Thank you, Leslie, very much for

:25:59. > :26:04.joining us and is talking about your family's situation.

:26:05. > :26:06.In a statement a Ministry of Justice spokesperson said:

:26:07. > :26:08."Safeguarding vulnerable people is our priority.

:26:09. > :26:11.We take swift action if any abuse is reported and have a zero

:26:12. > :26:13.tolerance approach to any attorney or deputy who breaks the law.

:26:14. > :26:16.If there is evidence that someone has abused their position,

:26:17. > :26:19.we can refer cases to the Court of Protection to urgently revoke

:26:20. > :26:26.a lasting power of attorney or deputyship order."

:26:27. > :26:31.Let us know if you have had any experience of this, good or bad.

:26:32. > :26:34.We hear the second part of our exclusive interview

:26:35. > :26:37.Phil Green the agent of Chloe Ayling the model kidnapped

:26:38. > :26:55.He talks about how she reacted to the ordeal.

:26:56. > :26:58.Taylor Swift has won a sexual assault case

:26:59. > :27:01.against a former radio DJ, who she said had groped her

:27:02. > :27:05.David Mueller from Colorado had originally tried to sue the American

:27:06. > :27:07.singer-songwriter saying her claims had cost him his

:27:08. > :27:10.David Mueller from Colorado had originally tried to sue the American

:27:11. > :27:12.singer-songwriter saying her claims had cost him his

:27:13. > :27:15.Taylor was awarded a symbolic one dollar in damages,

:27:16. > :27:17.because she wanted to highlight the issue women are

:27:18. > :27:26.interactive show 'Daily Blast Live' was in court.

:27:27. > :27:37.When the verdict came, she was very happy. What had she been like

:27:38. > :27:41.throughout the hearings? She testified last Thursday and she was

:27:42. > :27:45.very fierce, that's the way I would describe her. She was very

:27:46. > :27:52.confident, unwavering in her stance, and I know the attorney of David

:27:53. > :27:57.Mueller was trying to get her to appear weak. It is her job to make

:27:58. > :28:01.her get flustered or say things differently to try to prove her case

:28:02. > :28:07.but she maintained her stance. I don't know what I can say on this

:28:08. > :28:11.programme, but she did not use the word rear end and she made sure to

:28:12. > :28:16.use profanity each time because she wanted it to be vulgar. She didn't

:28:17. > :28:21.want it to be polite. She maintained that what happened to her was not

:28:22. > :28:25.polite and she needed to stand up for herself, not just for herself

:28:26. > :28:29.but for women in general and that's what she spoke to and she maintained

:28:30. > :28:34.that stance. You could tell she was up there not just speaking for

:28:35. > :28:39.herself but to show women out there that it is OK to stand up for what

:28:40. > :28:44.you believe in and not have anyone tried to waver and say you were

:28:45. > :28:50.smiling in this photo in question. Because that did come up. Why are

:28:51. > :28:55.you smiling, acting a certain way? She doesn't have to defend herself

:28:56. > :29:02.and she wasn't going to let anyone tear her down. Did she get emotional

:29:03. > :29:11.at all? On the stands she did not, she did get emotional when she heard

:29:12. > :29:14.her mother speak or when David Mueller's attorney was speaking

:29:15. > :29:19.saying this photo doesn't show her looking like she has just been

:29:20. > :29:21.groped. Even though she is fierce and confident on the stand, it was

:29:22. > :29:27.still something that was very emotional to her. She did not report

:29:28. > :29:35.this to police when it happened, it ended up in court with her suing him

:29:36. > :29:40.for a symbolic $1 because he was suing her. Through the process

:29:41. > :29:46.though, in the eyes of her fans and other members of the public, has she

:29:47. > :29:53.effectively become a campaigner on this issue? She really has. I have

:29:54. > :29:59.been live tweeting this quite a bit and you usually hear from both sides

:30:00. > :30:05.of someone defending Mueller, someone defending Swift, but you

:30:06. > :30:10.have people saying I believe in her cause even though I am not a fan, so

:30:11. > :30:14.it transcended her as a staff and came down to the issue that a woman

:30:15. > :30:19.has a right to go after someone who sexually assaulted her, and she was

:30:20. > :30:28.assaulted. And she is an influential woman. What reaction has there been?

:30:29. > :30:33.After the jury went out and there was people leaving, and ran into one

:30:34. > :30:38.of her young fans who was there with her mother and had been going to

:30:39. > :30:42.court every day. She was so excited, she felt justice had been served. I

:30:43. > :30:46.noticed the best quality about this little interaction was that this

:30:47. > :30:55.little girl felt empowered. She wasn't afraid of Mueller and she was

:30:56. > :31:01.so happy Swift stood up to that man. You could tell she was taking that

:31:02. > :31:05.in and if, God forbid she is ever in that situation, she felt ready and

:31:06. > :31:12.inspired by the actions of one woman that happened to be Taylor Swift.

:31:13. > :31:19.She has now said she will be donating to organisations in the

:31:20. > :31:26.future to help sexual assault and is defend themselves because she

:31:27. > :31:32.ignored she has -- she acknowledged she has the resources to do that.

:31:33. > :31:35.What else has she said? She hasn't been publicly speaking either in the

:31:36. > :31:42.media or on social media but I believe she intends to go into what

:31:43. > :31:47.organisations she intends to donate to in time, I think she will slowly

:31:48. > :31:50.roll this out at ink she needs to decompress, it was a highly

:31:51. > :31:55.emotional case for her and I know it means a lot to her and I know she

:31:56. > :31:59.wants to formulate a plan, she comes across to me as someone who wants a

:32:00. > :32:02.detailed plan of action and we will know it soon, I don't know whether

:32:03. > :32:06.it's within the next week but it will happen. I mentioned it she did

:32:07. > :32:12.not go to police when this happened four years ago, it was what's been

:32:13. > :32:18.talked about as a low-level sexual assault, someone dropping her under

:32:19. > :32:24.her skirt, what has she said about the impact on her that? The only

:32:25. > :32:33.time she has ever mentioned it, but I have heard, is in Court, when her

:32:34. > :32:37.mother said when she found out, she felt like vomiting and crying at the

:32:38. > :32:40.same time, Taylor Swift has not been the same, the recent she doesn't go

:32:41. > :32:47.into crowds any more and when you see her and

:32:48. > :32:52.you see her at need and greed is, she is there close to her fans. When

:32:53. > :32:57.I was in Court, she looked up and acknowledged me and I am sure she

:32:58. > :33:00.did that to all the people, even if they were media or suppose that

:33:01. > :33:07.fans. They are curious to watch the case. She seemed like a very warm

:33:08. > :33:12.person and to show that she did not want to go out into the crowds, so

:33:13. > :33:15.she would impact one person can have, it's the only time she said

:33:16. > :33:24.she has ever been groped and it still sticks with her to this day.

:33:25. > :33:30.Why didn't she go to the police? The way she described it, it was very

:33:31. > :33:33.quick and there is a meet and greet, fans shuffling in and out within a

:33:34. > :33:40.second, if she would have stopped for one moment to say what happened,

:33:41. > :33:43.that would have destroyed the experience for all those fans, for

:33:44. > :33:49.her, she went and finished what she had to do, a dozen people left and

:33:50. > :33:56.as soon as the line finished she told everyone that was in the room,

:33:57. > :34:01.that crack -- guy totally grabbed my, she used the profanity and they

:34:02. > :34:05.said I know. The photographer looked and saw the photo and her management

:34:06. > :34:09.went and they considered calling the police but they considered the best

:34:10. > :34:15.course of action was to just alert his bosses at the radio station.

:34:16. > :34:26.Thank you. In the last 15 minutes,

:34:27. > :34:29.the government has announced some of the key details about the public

:34:30. > :34:31.inquiry into Grenfell Tower fire. It will look at not just the fire

:34:32. > :34:45.itself but the actions of the local How wide-ranging will it be? We have

:34:46. > :34:48.something from the chairman of the inquiry and the Prime Minister,

:34:49. > :34:52.setting out the terms of reference, we happen waiting for these, the

:34:53. > :34:55.areas they will look into. It includes six, reading through, the

:34:56. > :35:00.cause and spread of the fire, we knew that, we expected that, the

:35:01. > :35:03.design construction and refurbishment of Grenfell Tower, the

:35:04. > :35:08.scope and adequacy of the relevant regulations relating to high-rise

:35:09. > :35:10.buildings across the country, whether relevant legislation and

:35:11. > :35:14.guidance was complied with in the case of Grenfell Tower that will be

:35:15. > :35:21.key. And also, we were not quite sure about this, to Max -- two extra

:35:22. > :35:29.things they have added, the response of the London Fire Brigade and local

:35:30. > :35:33.government and amongst others, and the last elements could be key. Will

:35:34. > :35:37.it satisfy residents who are concerned about what the inquiry

:35:38. > :35:41.will cover? These letters have only been released, campaigners keen this

:35:42. > :35:46.inquiry is as broad as possible, not just looking at the immediate

:35:47. > :35:50.causes, we know if rich freezer caught fire, the cladding, but looks

:35:51. > :35:55.at the wider causes and on the face of it, the statement goes some way

:35:56. > :35:59.towards addressing that. -- a fridge freezer caught fire. The Prime

:36:00. > :36:04.Minister says she is adamant that the wider causes around this will be

:36:05. > :36:10.addressed, she will meet social housing tenants to see what further

:36:11. > :36:14.proposals can be made in due course. -- the Housing Minister will meet

:36:15. > :36:18.local residents. On a first reading this seems to address some of the

:36:19. > :36:20.questions about the fire, not just the immediate cause but the actions

:36:21. > :36:32.crucially of the Council before the blaze. Thank you.

:36:33. > :36:35.Now we return to the extraordinary story of model Chloe Ayling,

:36:36. > :36:37.who jetted off to Milan for what she thought

:36:38. > :36:40.was a photoshoot, but instead was kidnapped and held for six days

:36:41. > :36:42.by Lukasz Herba, a Polish national from Birmingham.

:36:43. > :36:45.She says he told her she was going to be sold into sex slavery then

:36:46. > :36:49.issued a ransom note to a number of people in the UK for her release.

:36:50. > :36:52.One of those was Phil Green, her agent at the time -

:36:53. > :36:54.who had initially booked her on the job with Lukasz -

:36:55. > :36:56.who was posing as a photographer named Andre.

:36:57. > :36:59.In his only BBC interview, Phil Green - that former agent -

:37:00. > :37:02.He praises Chloe's bravery throughout this ordeal

:37:03. > :37:04.and claims she has been offered counselling but has refused

:37:05. > :37:07.despite her now being afraid to go anywhere alone.

:37:08. > :37:10.In the second part of this interview I began by asking Phil what happened

:37:11. > :37:14.It wasn't until the Sunday, this is following the kidnapping

:37:15. > :37:16.on the Tuesday, the Sunday we heard there were some

:37:17. > :37:20.It turns out that in the early hours of Monday morning,

:37:21. > :37:22.the attacker, this Lukasz Herba, walks into the consulate office

:37:23. > :37:25.with Chloe and says I'm her friend, she's the girl who's been kidnapped,

:37:26. > :37:39.Well, the consulate staff immediately rang the police,

:37:40. > :37:42.he was arrested and then Chloe had to face 16 hours...

:37:43. > :37:46.16 hours of questioning by the police, who were

:37:47. > :37:56.I had to say they were insensitive and didn't show much compassion

:37:57. > :38:02.during the time of the interviewing and, in fact, one of the magistrates

:38:03. > :38:05.in Italy who she had to face doubted some of the elements of the story.

:38:06. > :38:09.And openly said to her you're lying, you know?

:38:10. > :38:13.And, of course, it is an amazing story.

:38:14. > :38:20.In fact, when the British police heard that this man had walked

:38:21. > :38:24.into the consulate with the model they thought, hang on a second,

:38:25. > :38:27.it looks like the photographer was kidnapped as well.

:38:28. > :38:37.When she gave me the whole version of events, from being attacked

:38:38. > :38:40.to being released, it did sound amazingly fantastic to be true.

:38:41. > :38:52.Equally so, I always kept staunchly loyal to Chloe, who I represented.

:38:53. > :38:58.She clearly had gone through a tremendous amount

:38:59. > :39:03.of suffering and horrific ordeal, and I know that if that had happened

:39:04. > :39:07.to 95% of the other models in my agency they would have

:39:08. > :39:14.crumbled and not reached a conclusion in this.

:39:15. > :39:17.I feel that she has been incredibly strong -

:39:18. > :39:21.strong willed and strong minded - to try to get through this.

:39:22. > :39:24.She doesn't seem to have been fazed by the ordeal.

:39:25. > :39:27.When it first emerged, we saw pictures quite quickly

:39:28. > :39:30.of her in front of the media with the puppy, looking

:39:31. > :39:40.Well, I know her, I've known her for a year.

:39:41. > :39:44.I don't think I've ever seen her fazed through any situation.

:39:45. > :39:48.But this was a traumatic ordeal, was she not traumatised?

:39:49. > :39:51.My worry was that maybe she was psychologically

:39:52. > :39:53.scarred from this and, indeed, the police in this

:39:54. > :39:56.country said we're going to get her counselling.

:39:57. > :40:02.And I think, you know, it might be a delayed reaction.

:40:03. > :40:04.But certainly right now there is no sign of any

:40:05. > :40:12.The detail of what she went through is distressing,

:40:13. > :40:15.it's shocking, and yet she doesn't seem to have much public sympathy.

:40:16. > :40:20.I understand that, and it really is because of this lapse of time

:40:21. > :40:26.And thank you very much, the Italian police,

:40:27. > :40:32.Certainly Chloe wouldn't have wanted that.

:40:33. > :40:35.When she spoke to me from her hotel room in Milan

:40:36. > :40:37.after the ordeal she said, well, I don't want

:40:38. > :40:41.She said, I'm actually humiliated by it, I don't want people to know

:40:42. > :40:46.I want to just come back to the country and get back

:40:47. > :40:49.to my mum and my dog and just carry on my life.

:40:50. > :40:51.But the Italian police have a strange way of

:40:52. > :40:55.So she never wanted any publicity around this?

:40:56. > :41:00.She gave her evidence at a pre-trial review ten days ago and straight

:41:01. > :41:04.after the pre-trial review the prosecutor then called a meeting

:41:05. > :41:09.with the press in Italy, first of all, and that meeting

:41:10. > :41:11.and that press release brought about attention

:41:12. > :41:17.But she, of course, didn't have to respond to that.

:41:18. > :41:20.She could have stayed quiet about it.

:41:21. > :41:23.She didn't have to respond, but you mention the stories

:41:24. > :41:28.Those stories have come about because the press didn't

:41:29. > :41:34.Even the Italian police were doubting her, don't

:41:35. > :41:40.And it's only now through confirmation from her lawyer that

:41:41. > :41:44.people are now starting to believe that she actually went through this.

:41:45. > :42:03.She doesn't get upset when we talk about it.

:42:04. > :42:08.The only thing we've talked about, and she's said,

:42:09. > :42:11.I'm afraid to go out alone, which she never was.

:42:12. > :42:15.I mean, she used to come up to see me at the agency and travel

:42:16. > :42:24.But now she's said I really don't want to get on a train or any public

:42:25. > :42:28.So that, for me, is the only outward sign I've seen of it

:42:29. > :42:36.She is now making money out of what she went through.

:42:37. > :42:43.That was never the intention and, as I said, she's been called

:42:44. > :42:45.to the press to give her version of events.

:42:46. > :42:47.OK, she's been paid for it, you know...

:42:48. > :42:51.But not just through the press, through public speaking,

:42:52. > :42:55.People will presumably book her now because she is known

:42:56. > :43:01.Well, all her modelling has been cancelled.

:43:02. > :43:03.There hasn't been any topless photo shoots since she got back,

:43:04. > :43:07.She's with an agency now who specialise in public speaking.

:43:08. > :43:17.You know, after all we've been through, a successful year and then

:43:18. > :43:20.the time she spent in Milan, myself paying for her accommodation,

:43:21. > :43:22.her food and expenses, paying for her return flight ticket

:43:23. > :43:25.back, 24 hours after getting back to go and walk into another agent's

:43:26. > :43:38.Do you feel any guilt around the fact that this all happens,

:43:39. > :43:44.She was on your books, she was sent off on this photo shoot

:43:45. > :43:50.You have to feel a little amount of guilt.

:43:51. > :43:51.Would I have done anything different?

:43:52. > :43:56.Again, if the same situation arose, probably not.

:43:57. > :43:59.The same checks have been carried out by my agency

:44:00. > :44:01.on countless hundreds, maybe thousands, of jobs

:44:02. > :44:05.over the last 30 years I've had my agency.

:44:06. > :44:09.And we've never had an incident, we've never had to challenge

:44:10. > :44:12.a client or a photographer who we've sent a model to saying

:44:13. > :44:15.that was inappropriate or, you know, they've never been in danger

:44:16. > :44:26.I think possibly, possibly on future jobs, certainly abroad,

:44:27. > :44:31.I might say to the model if you prefer, maybe think

:44:32. > :44:39.It isn't something the agency offers, it's something we don't

:44:40. > :44:42.have, but if a model wants to take someone with her, maybe

:44:43. > :44:56.And that was to ailing's agent Phil Green talking to me about her

:44:57. > :45:14.ordeal. It has been 70 years since partition

:45:15. > :45:18.between India and Pakistan came into effect. It was the largest mass

:45:19. > :45:21.migration ever recorded, 12 million people on the move across the newly

:45:22. > :45:28.formed borders. Muslim is journeyed to West and East, but and that now

:45:29. > :45:31.forms Pakistan, Hindus and Sikhs headed in the opposite direction,

:45:32. > :45:35.hundreds of thousand of duck did or killed. -- Abdul did.

:45:36. > :45:38.Let's talk now to Vinod Chhabra who fled what is now Pakistan

:45:39. > :45:40.for India when he was nine years old,

:45:41. > :45:42.his cousin Ajay Chhabra and his son Diren.

:45:43. > :45:44.Ajay says partition has lived with his family for decades,

:45:45. > :45:47.Gurinder Chadha who directed films Bend it like Beckham and this year's

:45:48. > :45:50.Viceroys House amongst other joins us from the Wagah border

:45:51. > :45:52.which separates India and Pakistan and has played host to events

:45:53. > :45:55.marking the 70th anniversary, and in Leicester in Professor

:45:56. > :46:11.Gurharpal Singh who has speciliasded in the history of Partition.

:46:12. > :46:17.Thank you for joining us, it's great to have three generations of your

:46:18. > :46:28.family here to talk about what you went through. You were nine when

:46:29. > :46:32.partition happened, what happened? Firstly I want to say happy

:46:33. > :46:39.Independence Day to all of those watching this programme. Luckily it

:46:40. > :46:45.is 50 years today, it is the 15th of August I landed here in England on

:46:46. > :46:50.the 15th and that was one of those days when my uncle brought me from

:46:51. > :46:55.the Heathrow Airport, and from onwards I have been here and in

:46:56. > :47:02.Germany and all around Europe and have been working here. These are

:47:03. > :47:10.the memories I will have to go back, I mean long dark about 60 years. And

:47:11. > :47:18.that is in my childhood. Those are the memories which I personally

:47:19. > :47:32.think are still haunting, sometimes when I think about them. So what do

:47:33. > :47:38.you remember of that time? Precisely I will tell you, because I was

:47:39. > :47:42.around eight or nine. I was not in a school because there were disturbed

:47:43. > :47:53.areas all around and actually we were not regularly going to school.

:47:54. > :48:00.Unfortunately that was... We work in one of the major cities in Pakistan.

:48:01. > :48:05.Sorry to interrupt, literally in an instant your life changed from the

:48:06. > :48:11.ordered life you had known up until that point and suddenly it was gone,

:48:12. > :48:14.how did you cope with that? It changed to some extent that I would

:48:15. > :48:22.say at that time I didn't understand, but then when I grew up,

:48:23. > :48:37.I said how did that happen to our family? The factory and we were

:48:38. > :48:46.living there and asked to leave that place immediately. So you lost

:48:47. > :48:51.everything overnight? At the age I'm talking about, we did not know what

:48:52. > :49:00.was happening tomorrow because we were shifting from that area to a

:49:01. > :49:08.place with military and rifles and everything. They said, don't go up,

:49:09. > :49:11.don't show your faces. That's why it was so scary, we were so small and

:49:12. > :49:23.we didn't know what was happening all around. We have Diren next to

:49:24. > :49:29.you. What do you think when you hear Vinod talking about what he went

:49:30. > :49:33.through at the age you are? It must have been horrible time for him.

:49:34. > :49:39.Since he's my grandfather I know how it feels and I know him. When he

:49:40. > :49:45.left his home, he left everything, he only took the things he really

:49:46. > :49:50.needed. For example, some bedding, the low and some clothes. You

:49:51. > :49:54.wouldn't need your bed frame, your fridge. You would just move and rush

:49:55. > :50:01.out. You would turn on your radio in the morning and here all of a

:50:02. > :50:10.sudden, "Get out of India". You obviously know a lot about it, does

:50:11. > :50:15.your family talk openly about it? Yes, my dad told me when I was eight

:50:16. > :50:19.or nine, and I intend now. I went online and looked at it, how some

:50:20. > :50:34.people still have grandads still living now.

:50:35. > :50:48.Gurinder, this is not something on curriculum is in a commonplace way,

:50:49. > :50:51.how do you see partition? You're absolutely right, the British Empire

:50:52. > :50:55.is rarely taught now in schools and I think the real question is, yes,

:50:56. > :51:04.there were terrible things that happen during partition but what my

:51:05. > :51:07.studio house looks at is the reasons these things happened. I don't think

:51:08. > :51:12.enough people are focusing on the fact it was British policy at that

:51:13. > :51:17.time to have the divide, to make partition happened. People like the

:51:18. > :51:21.family of the guests in the studio and my own family, their concerns

:51:22. > :51:26.didn't really matter at the time when this policy to divide India was

:51:27. > :51:38.being planned by the British, way before 1947. What was your family's

:51:39. > :51:41.situation? My grandmother was in a place, which is now Pakistan, with

:51:42. > :51:48.her five young children, and very similar. One day trucks and there's

:51:49. > :51:52.too much violence and you have to leave so she was put on the trot

:51:53. > :51:57.with her children. They were on a train for three days with no food

:51:58. > :52:01.and water, and couldn't get off the train because there was cholera

:52:02. > :52:06.everywhere. Eventually her milk dried up and her youngest child

:52:07. > :52:13.starved to death and they ended up in a refugee camp for months on end.

:52:14. > :52:19.It is a tragedy for my family, as it is for many people. But I want

:52:20. > :52:23.people to ask questions why it happened, and people are too busy

:52:24. > :52:27.focusing on the trauma of partition and not asking why it happened,

:52:28. > :52:31.because it's a lot to do with the geopolitics at the time between

:52:32. > :52:34.Britain and America, much like we see happening in the world today

:52:35. > :52:54.where suffering is happening with refugees. How do you explain how it

:52:55. > :53:00.happened, professor? I would differ, in that I don't think you can

:53:01. > :53:05.entirely placed the blame on British Raj. The situation in India after

:53:06. > :53:15.the Second World War had become quite ungovernable and from almost a

:53:16. > :53:25.year before the events happened, there was widespread communal

:53:26. > :53:30.rioting. Even in March 1947, many months before the partition actually

:53:31. > :53:36.occurred, Indian politicians and politicians in Punjab were

:53:37. > :53:44.clamouring for the division of the province. So I think in a sense

:53:45. > :53:46.there is a shared blame, and it's not something most academic

:53:47. > :53:53.historians take seriously, but it was solely the responsibility of

:53:54. > :54:00.British government and the colonial administration in India, in

:54:01. > :54:15.particular Mountbatten's decision to advance the transfer of power by

:54:16. > :54:23.several months. Vinod... Sorry to interrupt you but I want to go back

:54:24. > :54:30.to Vinod because I was struck at the beginning by your immediate reaction

:54:31. > :54:38.to say happy Independence Day. When Independence Day came, we didn't

:54:39. > :54:43.know it was happy. One thing I tell you that we went through the trucks,

:54:44. > :54:48.we went through the road, we have seen a train full of dead bodies

:54:49. > :54:53.that we were not allowed to go there. Actually our factory was

:54:54. > :54:58.nearby and I was not allowed to go to the station, which was almost

:54:59. > :55:04.walking distance, and they said no, you shouldn't go there. I could see

:55:05. > :55:09.the blood coming out of those compartments. The people were inside

:55:10. > :55:15.that we didn't know, and we were asking what's happening here. Then

:55:16. > :55:20.we were put into the trucks with my grandmother, grandfather, brother,

:55:21. > :55:27.sister, everybody, into the trucks, and the trucks kept on going, going,

:55:28. > :55:30.going. People walking on the road, people not only walking, they were

:55:31. > :55:44.crying, feeling, there was no water given. Also it was believe you me a

:55:45. > :55:55.terrible experience as a child. The events you are describing are

:55:56. > :55:58.unimaginable. Ajay, its understanding bitterness would

:55:59. > :56:05.trickle through the generations of a family, how do you see it? I don't

:56:06. > :56:14.think... I have grown up in a family where bitterness did not exist, and

:56:15. > :56:18.in fact compassion and the things that hold us together, our cultural

:56:19. > :56:26.values, is the environment in which I grew up in. I speak to other

:56:27. > :56:29.colleagues or friends or family who have had similar experiences. I

:56:30. > :56:34.think that metaphor repeats itself again and again and I think that's

:56:35. > :56:38.the incredible power of that place, of that community. I think our

:56:39. > :56:45.families didn't look back, they looked forward, they had to. As

:56:46. > :56:53.Vinod described, the brutal images that he lives with. For us, for

:56:54. > :56:58.myself it was important to convey some of that to my son because these

:56:59. > :57:03.are the missing pieces of jigsaw in family narratives, you know, history

:57:04. > :57:07.repeats itself and these borders are artificial and it's important we

:57:08. > :57:11.reflect on all of these corners of history in order for our next

:57:12. > :57:23.generation, I suppose, to understand the world a better. So I'm really

:57:24. > :57:28.pleased that Diren has understood this but also that the communities

:57:29. > :57:34.have looked forward and not back. Gurinder, you have been attending

:57:35. > :57:45.events, what has the mood been there? Last night I attended a

:57:46. > :57:49.candlelit vigil at the Wagah border. Normally people come from Pakistan

:57:50. > :57:54.with candles and also from India but sadly last night the Pakistanis

:57:55. > :57:59.weren't allowed permission so just the Indians were there, so that was

:58:00. > :58:05.quite sad. I think one of the things you will find in India, where I am

:58:06. > :58:10.now in Punjab, is there are not a lot of initiatives between people

:58:11. > :58:14.and cultural groups to keep those ties strong, particularly through

:58:15. > :58:19.artists and poets, literature. There are great moves to say that yes, the

:58:20. > :58:26.land might be divided but actually our hearts are not and our culture.

:58:27. > :58:30.Thank you, that is a good point to end the programme on. Thank you,

:58:31. > :58:33.all, for your company. I will see 70 years after the

:58:34. > :58:35.Partition of India, Anita Rani and three other

:58:36. > :58:38.Britons discover how