23/08/2017

:00:07. > :00:08.Hello, it's Wednesday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley,

:00:09. > :00:14.A charity worker who helped expose the sexual exploitation

:00:15. > :00:16.of vulnerable children in Rotherham talks to us exclusively

:00:17. > :00:19.about the stress of a long-running investigation in her role and tells

:00:20. > :00:25.us the focus should be on helping those still suffering.

:00:26. > :00:29.I've had a couple of calls from people in the community

:00:30. > :00:32.who this is still happening to their children and daughters

:00:33. > :00:40.and just reaching out and asking for help and support.

:00:41. > :00:43.We will bring you that full interview after the news.

:00:44. > :00:45.Also this morning - Prince Harry tells the BBC he's very

:00:46. > :00:47.glad he walked behind Princess Diana's coffin

:00:48. > :00:50.at her funeral 20 years ago, but says he still can't

:00:51. > :00:54.I think one of the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact

:00:55. > :00:57.that the people that were chasing her into the tunnel,

:00:58. > :00:59.were the same people that were taking photographs

:01:00. > :01:03.of her while she was still dying on the back seat of the car.

:01:04. > :01:08.We'll have all the details, and also hear from Prince William.

:01:09. > :01:10.Are you in your thirties, with a social media profile,

:01:11. > :01:12.online shopping accounts and an internet bank account?

:01:13. > :01:28.We'll find out how criminals could be trying to steal your identity.

:01:29. > :01:33.We also want to hear from you if you've been verbally

:01:34. > :01:36.or sexually harassed on public transport.

:01:37. > :01:38.There's a suggestion this morning that one solution might be

:01:39. > :01:42.Oppponents say that's just giving into the problem.

:01:43. > :01:50.Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

:01:51. > :01:53.use the hashtag Victoria live and if you text, you will be charged

:01:54. > :01:58.Princes William and Harry have described their bewilderment

:01:59. > :02:00.when they encountered grieving crowds, on the day

:02:01. > :02:05.Speaking to a BBC documentary marking 20 years

:02:06. > :02:08.since the death of Princess Diana - they say walking behind her coffin

:02:09. > :02:16.Here's our Royal Correspondent Nicholas Witchell.

:02:17. > :02:19.It was the week when a nation mourned, and the monarchy

:02:20. > :02:24.At its heart were two boys, William and Harry, then aged 15

:02:25. > :02:27.and 12, grieving for the loss of their mother, but required

:02:28. > :02:30.by their royal position to appear in public and help assuage

:02:31. > :02:37.In the BBC documentary, William and Harry speak

:02:38. > :02:40.of the numbness and confusion they felt when they were told

:02:41. > :02:50.And, in Harry's case, it is clear there is still anger at the French

:02:51. > :02:52.photographers who were pursuing Diana's speeding car in the moments

:02:53. > :02:56.before the crash in the Alma Tunnel, in Paris.

:02:57. > :02:59.I think one of the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact

:03:00. > :03:03.that the people who chased her into the tunnel were the same people

:03:04. > :03:05.who were taking photographs of her while she was dying

:03:06. > :03:18.We have been told that from people that know that it was the case.

:03:19. > :03:21.She had quite a severe head injury, but she was still very much alive

:03:22. > :03:25.Those people who caused the accident, instead of helping,

:03:26. > :03:29.were taking photographs of her dying on the back seat.

:03:30. > :03:34.And then those photographs made their way back to news desks.

:03:35. > :03:39.William and Harry were in Balmoral when they heard the news in Paris.

:03:40. > :03:42.They speak up in support of their grandmother for her efforts

:03:43. > :03:50."He tried to do his best for us", says Harry.

:03:51. > :03:53.When they moved from Balmoral to London,

:03:54. > :03:59.And it's clear that they found the experience bewildering,

:04:00. > :04:02.with so many people sobbing, and wanting to touch them.

:04:03. > :04:05.Of the decision to walk behind their mother's coffin,

:04:06. > :04:08.both say it was a collective family decision and both say they felt

:04:09. > :04:18.When you have something so traumatic as the death of your mother

:04:19. > :04:23.when you are 15, as, very sadly, many people have experienced,

:04:24. > :04:30.and no one wants to experience, it leaves you, you know,

:04:31. > :04:35.it will either make or break you, and I wouldn't let it break me.

:04:36. > :04:41.I wanted her to be proud of the person I would become.

:04:42. > :04:44.I didn't want her worried, or her legacy to be that William

:04:45. > :04:46.or Harry were completely and utterly devastated by it.

:04:47. > :04:50.And all of her hard work, love and energy she put into us

:04:51. > :04:52.when we were younger would go to waste.

:04:53. > :04:55.They were children coping with their own grief

:04:56. > :04:57.and the attention of a grieving nation, and who kept

:04:58. > :05:01.going to honour their mother's memory.

:05:02. > :05:04.We can speak to Royal Correspondent Sarah Campbell.

:05:05. > :05:09.What was the main impression you get from the two princes?

:05:10. > :05:16.I know you have watched the whole documentary. Yes, it is an hour and

:05:17. > :05:20.a half, and Palace officials say it is the first and last time that

:05:21. > :05:24.Princes Harry and William will talk in such detail about those seven

:05:25. > :05:28.days. It is called Diana seven days, it starts when she dies, finishes at

:05:29. > :05:33.the funeral. It gives an insight and other key players who were involved.

:05:34. > :05:37.So the point at which they were told that she died. They were on holiday

:05:38. > :05:40.in Balmoral with their father, with the Queen. Williams says that he was

:05:41. > :05:44.completely numb and asked themselves the question, why me? In all the

:05:45. > :05:49.run-up to the 20th anniversary of her death, we have heard very little

:05:50. > :05:52.about Prince Charles in all of this, but Prince Harry does pay tribute to

:05:53. > :05:56.his father in this documentary. He says it is one of the hardest things

:05:57. > :06:00.you have to do is to tell your children that the other parent has

:06:01. > :06:04.died. He was there for us, he was the one of two left, and he tried to

:06:05. > :06:07.do his best and to make sure we were protected and looked after. Going

:06:08. > :06:11.back 20 years, you will remember there was a lot of bad feeling

:06:12. > :06:13.towards the Queen and the Royal family, because they kept the boys

:06:14. > :06:18.in Balmoral. There was clamour in London folk them to be brought back

:06:19. > :06:21.to London, and on this volume is absolutely clear that that was the

:06:22. > :06:26.right decision for them at the time. He talked about how the Queen, his

:06:27. > :06:30.grandmother, tried to protect them. She took the newspapers away every

:06:31. > :06:33.day. Williams said there were no smartphones, thankfully we have the

:06:34. > :06:38.privacy to mourn. We had no idea that the reaction to her death would

:06:39. > :06:41.be so huge. There were other insights on the Queen from others

:06:42. > :06:46.involved in this documentary, Tony Blair speaking. He was saying that

:06:47. > :06:51.she was resistant to anything that seemed to look false, there would

:06:52. > :06:54.look like a PR event. Diana's elder sister said the Queen absolutely did

:06:55. > :06:58.the right thing to let the boys get over the shock in the bosom of their

:06:59. > :07:03.family. William again talks about the fact that she felt torn, the

:07:04. > :07:06.Queen felt torn between being their grandmother, the grandmother of

:07:07. > :07:09.William and Harry, and her role as Queen. Clearly a very very difficult

:07:10. > :07:14.time for them all. Sarah, thank you. Annita McVeigh is in the BBC

:07:15. > :07:25.Newsroom with a summary Police have used tear gas to

:07:26. > :07:30.disperse protesters outside a rally by President in Arizona. Media

:07:31. > :07:31.reports said some anti-Trump protesters had thrown bottles at

:07:32. > :07:39.police. Footage shows demonstrators

:07:40. > :07:40.being driven backwards. During the rally, the President

:07:41. > :07:42.attacked media coverage of his response to violent

:07:43. > :07:44.disturbances in Charlottesville This programme has learned that

:07:45. > :07:54.a long running investigation into a charity worker who helped

:07:55. > :07:57.expose the child sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham

:07:58. > :07:59.is to be examined by Jayne Senior has been investigated

:08:00. > :08:02.by Rotherham Council for a year, Ms Senior denies any wrongdoing

:08:03. > :08:06.and says it's a distraction from helping vulnerable young people

:08:07. > :08:08.in the town. I do not receive money

:08:09. > :08:10.for doing interviews. The only interview that I received

:08:11. > :08:13.a small amount of money for I don't and have not

:08:14. > :08:17.done this for money. Somebody told them that I was

:08:18. > :08:19.earning a significant amount The government will today vow to end

:08:20. > :08:37.what it calls the "direct jurisdiction" of the European Court

:08:38. > :08:40.of Justice in the UK after Brexit. A paper being published will insist

:08:41. > :08:43.such an arrangement would be "neither necessary nor appropriate"

:08:44. > :08:45.once Britain has left the European Union -

:08:46. > :08:47.adding there are other ways But critics say European judges

:08:48. > :09:00.could retain some influence. Adam Fleming is in Brussels. A lot

:09:01. > :09:06.of discussion around the use of the word direct, the government saying

:09:07. > :09:10.it will end the direct jurisdiction of the ECJ. Yes, and I am actually

:09:11. > :09:15.in Luxembourg, the home of the European Court of Justice. This

:09:16. > :09:19.government paper will be all about how do you solve disputes that arise

:09:20. > :09:24.between the UK and the EU, either around the Brexit deal signed, or

:09:25. > :09:28.any future free trade partnership deal signed between the two sides?

:09:29. > :09:30.And crucially the British government does not want any dispute mechanism

:09:31. > :09:36.to include the European Court of Justice. The Prime Minister when she

:09:37. > :09:40.has talked about this issue has said she wants to end the jurisdiction of

:09:41. > :09:44.the ECJ. Now ministers talk about ending direct jurisdiction. People

:09:45. > :09:48.will be combing through this paper when published at lunchtime for any

:09:49. > :09:53.hint of a climb-down, a change or a softening or reinterpretation of the

:09:54. > :09:56.government's position. One justice minister talked about how the fact

:09:57. > :10:01.that the UK will be keeping half an eye on what the UK does in future.

:10:02. > :10:05.What does that mean in practical, legal and political terms? We also

:10:06. > :10:10.know that the EU still sees a role for this place after Brexit,

:10:11. > :10:13.especially on the issue of scrutinising and guaranteeing the

:10:14. > :10:18.rights of EU citizens who are still living in the UK after the UK leaves

:10:19. > :10:24.in March 20 19. Thank you very much, Adam Fleming.

:10:25. > :10:27.Two men suspected to be behind last week's terror attacks in and around

:10:28. > :10:29.Barcelona have been detained on terror charges -

:10:30. > :10:32.Another man has been released on bail,

:10:33. > :10:36.Earlier, the court in Madrid heard the group had intended to blow up

:10:37. > :10:39.Danish police have identified a headless torso found south

:10:40. > :10:42.of Copenhagen as the missing Swedish journalist, Kim Wall.

:10:43. > :10:44.The authorities believe she died on board a homemade submarine.

:10:45. > :10:46.The craft's inventor, Peter Madsen, has been accused

:10:47. > :10:57.Identity theft is reaching "epidemic levels", with almost 500 cases a day

:10:58. > :11:02.according to a leading fraud prevention organisation.

:11:03. > :11:07.CIFAS says there were nearly 90,000 cases

:11:08. > :11:10.in the first six months of this year - a 5% rise.

:11:11. > :11:13.ID fraudsters steal personal information before using it to apply

:11:14. > :11:20.A 14-year-old boy has been arrested for dancing the Macarena in a busy

:11:21. > :11:23.A video of the teenager's performance was posted on twitter

:11:24. > :11:26.and quickly went viral - but now he's been accused

:11:27. > :11:29.It is not clear if he will be formally charged

:11:30. > :11:42.A Labour frontbencher has said women only train carriages could combat

:11:43. > :11:48.the rise in sexual offences on public transport. Shadow Prime

:11:49. > :11:53.minister Chris Williamson said it would be worth consulting on the

:11:54. > :11:58.policy, after such crimes doubled in the past year.

:11:59. > :12:01.Jeremy Corbyn first suggested the policy during his leadership

:12:02. > :12:05.election campaign in 2015. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:12:06. > :12:14.News - more at 9.30. Lots of people getting in touch with

:12:15. > :12:19.us about identity theft. Philip Dunne Twitter says people need to

:12:20. > :12:20.wake up to the fact that their identity can be stolen. Keep your

:12:21. > :12:22.comments coming. Do get in touch with us

:12:23. > :12:24.throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:12:25. > :12:27.and If you text, you will be charged England's women's rugby team are

:12:28. > :12:37.back in another World Cup final. It really has been a great

:12:38. > :12:40.summer for women's sport - off the back of the success

:12:41. > :12:43.of the cricketers, England's women are now gearing up for another

:12:44. > :12:49.Rugby World Cup final. The two sides shared a penalty

:12:50. > :12:55.a piece in the first half before prop Sarah Bern drove over

:12:56. > :12:58.for the first try of the night. An opportunistic score at the death

:12:59. > :13:01.from Megan Jones putting England into their fifth World Cup final

:13:02. > :13:04.in a row - and a repeat of the showpiece from

:13:05. > :13:16.2002, 2006 and 2010. Obviously I enjoyed most get the win

:13:17. > :13:19.and we set out to get to a World Cup final and we have certainly done

:13:20. > :13:22.that. We will enjoy the performance tonight. We have said all along the

:13:23. > :13:26.way that you have do enjoy the winds, those little winds, and

:13:27. > :13:30.tonight we have that. Tomorrow it will be back to square one. Recover,

:13:31. > :13:36.review and move on for that massive game on Saturday. The final takes

:13:37. > :13:41.place at 7:45pm in Belfast, which will be brilliant, I'm sure. And

:13:42. > :13:43.lots of hype ahead of the big fight in Vegas, what else would we expect

:13:44. > :13:46.this weekend? It's hard to take your eyes off

:13:47. > :13:49.of what's been unfolding ahead Connor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather

:13:50. > :13:53.arrived in Las Vegas was working the crowds

:13:54. > :14:08.with lots of high fives and tonnes of support for the Irishman

:14:09. > :14:11.but the the fight is yet to be a sell out - about seven thousand

:14:12. > :14:13.left, the cheapest costing In their last press conference later

:14:14. > :14:18.today of course we'll expect more Mayweather is expected to win

:14:19. > :14:22.and he's ready to get back in the ring and give

:14:23. > :14:29.fans more excitement. It is all about giving the fans what

:14:30. > :14:34.they want to see. I have been around the sports are so many years, and

:14:35. > :14:38.this is the last one. Conor McGregor can talk the talk, can he walk the

:14:39. > :14:44.walk? We will have to wait to see, that is what makes this fight and

:14:45. > :14:47.this matchup so intriguing. I have been off two years, it feels like I

:14:48. > :14:49.have lost a few steps, so we would just see.

:14:50. > :14:51.And before I go, worth mentioning Celtic they've

:14:52. > :14:53.booked their place in tomorrow's draw for the Group Stages

:14:54. > :14:56.Even thought they lost the second leg 4-3

:14:57. > :14:58.they won the play-off tie 8-4 overall - a great

:14:59. > :15:02.They'll be amongst the bottom seeds for the draw aiming to reach

:15:03. > :15:05.the knockouts for the first time since 2012

:15:06. > :15:12.It is now three years since the Jay Report

:15:13. > :15:15.revealed the horrific scale of sexual exploitation of children

:15:16. > :15:16.in the South Yorkshire town of Rotherham.

:15:17. > :15:19.Over the course of 15 years, more than 1,400 children,

:15:20. > :15:23.some as young as 11, were subjected to trafficking,

:15:24. > :15:27.rape and torture by gangs of men who were predominantly of Pakistani

:15:28. > :15:31.origin, while the police and authorities failed to act.

:15:32. > :15:34.The report was seen by many as a watershed moment

:15:35. > :15:36.in changing how authorities would deal with abuse.

:15:37. > :15:38.The BBC's social affairs correspondent, Alison Holt, has

:15:39. > :15:41.reported many times on the Rotherham grooming scandal, and has now

:15:42. > :15:46.returned to the town for a special report for this programme.

:15:47. > :15:49.Before we talk to Alison, I should warn you that you may find

:15:50. > :15:52.the details of her film upsetting and it's not suitable if you have

:15:53. > :16:08.Well, three years ago this week, when the scandal first emerged, the

:16:09. > :16:12.stories we were hearing were about children ignored, professionals who

:16:13. > :16:18.tried to warn about what was going on being sidelined, and information

:16:19. > :16:22.not being shared. There has been progress. But worryingly, what I

:16:23. > :16:25.found was there were still cases which seemed to show how difficult

:16:26. > :16:32.it is to change some deep-rooted attitudes.

:16:33. > :16:35.They'd kidnapped her, they'd held her hostage,

:16:36. > :16:43.they'd made her drug-run, gun-run, anything.

:16:44. > :16:45.Rotherham in South Yorkshire is a town trying to emerge

:16:46. > :16:56.They manipulated for their own benefit, and then

:16:57. > :17:01.mentally and physically and sexually abused her.

:17:02. > :17:05.It's three years since Rotherham found itself at the heart

:17:06. > :17:07.of one of Britain's biggest child-abuse scandals.

:17:08. > :17:09.More than 1400 children sexually exploited by

:17:10. > :17:15.The authorities, who'd ignored the problem, promised change.

:17:16. > :17:22.There are people who have been perpetrated against,

:17:23. > :17:25.who think they have reported it, and it's not been dealt with,

:17:26. > :17:29.it's just been put away in a drawer and left.

:17:30. > :17:33.The people of South Yorkshire need proper protection,

:17:34. > :17:38.and we need to know that mistakes from the past have been learned.

:17:39. > :17:41.And for the first time, the whistle-blower who helped expose

:17:42. > :17:46.the abuse tells of the treatment that has torn her life apart.

:17:47. > :17:53.Here we are, nearly three years on, and I feel, erm...

:17:54. > :18:05.more vilified than some of the perpetrators in Rotherham.

:18:06. > :18:09.They were raped by multiple perpetrators, they were trafficked

:18:10. > :18:11.to other towns and cities in the North of England,

:18:12. > :18:15.they were abducted, beaten and intimidated.

:18:16. > :18:19.In 2014, a report by Professor Alexis Jay exposed

:18:20. > :18:22.the failure by the council and police in Rotherham

:18:23. > :18:26.to tackle the gangs of men of largely Pakistani heritage

:18:27. > :18:30.This is when she were only a few month old...

:18:31. > :18:35.There are some families for whom the lifelong cost

:18:36. > :18:38.of a problem ignored is only now becoming clear.

:18:39. > :18:45.As a tiny baby, her mother, unable to cope, gave her to Julie

:18:46. > :18:51.Everybody liked Gemma, she mixed with anybody,

:18:52. > :18:54.we just thought she were a normal kid, laughing and joking,

:18:55. > :19:01.This is the first time the couple have talked about their foster

:19:02. > :19:07.daughter and the difficulties that started at an early age.

:19:08. > :19:12.She was a very troubled and a child that you couldn't reason with,

:19:13. > :19:15.a child that no matter what you said to her, she tried to get attention,

:19:16. > :19:22.She were doing really stupid things, putting herself in danger,

:19:23. > :19:25.to the point where she was going to throw herself off

:19:26. > :19:30.At 11, Gemma was moved to a children's home,

:19:31. > :19:34.taken into care by Rotherham Council.

:19:35. > :19:37.Now closed, this is one of the places where she was preyed

:19:38. > :19:42.on by men who claimed to be her boyfriend.

:19:43. > :19:46.It sounds like they plied her with money, goods, then drugs.

:19:47. > :19:51.And once they got hold of you with drugs, then every bit

:19:52. > :19:54.of your money that you get isn't your money, so you're owing

:19:55. > :19:58.to them all the time, and that is how it was.

:19:59. > :20:01.The incidents that she told me of, they kidnapped her,

:20:02. > :20:08.they'd held her hostage, they'd made her drug-run,

:20:09. > :20:14.On the streets of Rotherham, she was increasingly trapped

:20:15. > :20:21.Pregnant at 16, her baby was taken into care.

:20:22. > :20:25.She did try to get help from the authorities but got nowhere.

:20:26. > :20:31.I knew that she was on the game, she was prostituting in Sheffield.

:20:32. > :20:35.And I know that, with her arms, that she was on drugs.

:20:36. > :20:42.And I did say to her, Gemma, I will be on a phone call

:20:43. > :20:46.and I will be hearing either a punter's got hold of you or you're

:20:47. > :20:55.But when Professor Jay told the world about the abuse

:20:56. > :20:58.in Rotherham, for the first time Gemma began to tell her

:20:59. > :21:03.foster parents about what had happened to her.

:21:04. > :21:11."I am one of them girls, I am one of them that have been

:21:12. > :21:17.I asked her why didn't she speak to me beforehand

:21:18. > :21:24.She says, "I'd informed the police, the social services knew about it,

:21:25. > :21:26.why should I come and upset you, Mum?"

:21:27. > :21:30."Why should I have trouble at your door?"

:21:31. > :21:35.She began to talk to the National Crime Agency

:21:36. > :21:38.about what happened to her as a child, but now in her 30s,

:21:39. > :21:43.she was still preyed on by some of the same abusers.

:21:44. > :21:46.When her foster parents were also threatened, they called 999.

:21:47. > :21:52.The perpetrators that had got Gemma hooked on drugs,

:21:53. > :21:56.lending her money, manipulating her, were coming to the door,

:21:57. > :22:08.These were all logged down, took crime incident numbers.

:22:09. > :22:12.Police didn't come on two occasions, they came on one.

:22:13. > :22:18.All after the publicity of that exploitation?

:22:19. > :22:22.All after the promises that things would change.

:22:23. > :22:34.And like she felt, like I felt, that she wasn't listened to.

:22:35. > :22:37.South Yorkshire Police say they haven't been able to identify

:22:38. > :22:43.the specific incidents but will work with Gemma's family.

:22:44. > :22:47.Jayne Senior first met Gemma when she was a teenager.

:22:48. > :22:49.Then, she was manager of Risky Business, a charity

:22:50. > :22:57.She couldn't protect herself, they had a full hold on her,

:22:58. > :22:59.you know, as they did lots of the children

:23:00. > :23:05.These days, she works for a small charity called Swinton Lock.

:23:06. > :23:07.A community activity centre, it also provides support

:23:08. > :23:14.January this year, the phone rang at work, and when I answered it,

:23:15. > :23:19.a little voice says, "Can you remember me?"

:23:20. > :23:22.Like others, Gemma needed support - the sort of call Jayne

:23:23. > :23:29.It's still happening, you know, and I have had a couple of calls

:23:30. > :23:33.from people in the community who this is still happening to their

:23:34. > :23:36.children or their daughters, just reaching out and asking

:23:37. > :23:38.for help and support, because they're just feeling

:23:39. > :23:45.like parents did ten year ago, five year ago, two year ago -

:23:46. > :23:52.frightened, worried, upset, lonely, isolated.

:23:53. > :23:54.Abuse survivors also give information like names,

:23:55. > :23:59.The charity was sending this to the council,

:24:00. > :24:02.expecting it to be passed on to the police.

:24:03. > :24:04.Mike Fowler is on the Swinton Lock management committee.

:24:05. > :24:11.Well, the intelligence builds up a picture,

:24:12. > :24:16.and although small pieces of it might not be the right kind

:24:17. > :24:19.of information that can be turned into evidence,

:24:20. > :24:22.there could be a string of those that would form, you know,

:24:23. > :24:24.the full jigsaw puzzle, and they would be able

:24:25. > :24:29.The charity claims some of the information they sent in was not

:24:30. > :24:37.There are people who have been perpetrated against,

:24:38. > :24:40.who think they have reported it and it's not been dealt with,

:24:41. > :24:43.it's just been put away in a drawer and left.

:24:44. > :24:46.And that information is a mixture of historical information

:24:47. > :24:50.from the victims and current information as well.

:24:51. > :24:53.The current information is quite appalling, actually.

:24:54. > :24:55.So information that could potentially stop crimes

:24:56. > :25:05.Rotherham Council denied this, saying its records show information

:25:06. > :25:08.was passed to the NCA in a timely way and in line with

:25:09. > :25:15.But this is not the only battle with the council.

:25:16. > :25:19.Jayne Senior, who received an MBE from the Queen for her work,

:25:20. > :25:21.helped expose the abuse that was ignored for

:25:22. > :25:28.For 12 months now, she's been under investigation by Rotherham Council

:25:29. > :25:32.after a complaint by a number of abuse survivors.

:25:33. > :25:36.The first she heard of it was when a journalist called.

:25:37. > :25:39.I were quite shocked, actually, and I think if a complaint's

:25:40. > :25:42.received and then investigated, I don't have a problem with that,

:25:43. > :25:45.but I shouldn't have to find out off a journalist.

:25:46. > :25:47.Have you ever been given clear details about what you're

:25:48. > :25:57.You've never had point one, point two...

:25:58. > :26:03.She believes she is accused of making money from media

:26:04. > :26:07.appearances and inappropriately sharing confidential information.

:26:08. > :26:12.Last November, council officials interviewed her for five hours.

:26:13. > :26:17.I were asked lots of questions about how much money I'd earned.

:26:18. > :26:23.I was asked questions about who I was sharing information

:26:24. > :26:25.with, who I'd passed that information on, had I got people's

:26:26. > :26:29.One of the accusations is that you've made lots of money

:26:30. > :26:31.from doing interviews, from writing a book,

:26:32. > :26:34.from talking about what's happened in Rotherham.

:26:35. > :26:44.I do not receive money for doing interviews.

:26:45. > :26:47.The only interview that I received a small amount of money for has

:26:48. > :26:53.I don't and have not done this for money.

:26:54. > :26:59.Somebody told them that I was earning a significant

:27:00. > :27:03.amount of money - well, I'm not.

:27:04. > :27:07.Council officials arrived at the Swinton Lock

:27:08. > :27:14.When they came through the door and introduced themselves.

:27:15. > :27:16.About seven officials were met by the charity's

:27:17. > :27:21.She was told it was a monitoring visit and was quickly asked

:27:22. > :27:27.They were looking for specific information, particularly Jayne's,

:27:28. > :27:33.relating to her salary, and to her pay.

:27:34. > :27:40.Because I keep my files in a very tight order,

:27:41. > :27:42.everything is popped away, and when I came back in,

:27:43. > :27:44.there were particular documents left out.

:27:45. > :27:48.We have policies and procedures here to deal with allegations.

:27:49. > :27:52.They've deliberately bypassed those, even when we've asked them to stop.

:27:53. > :27:57.It just seems as though, you know, they want to attack Jayne's

:27:58. > :28:01.character and discredit the work she's done.

:28:02. > :28:09.Given Rotherham's history, the council has to make sure it

:28:10. > :28:11.investigates all complaints thoroughly, but the question

:28:12. > :28:15.being raised here is about the length of time it's taken.

:28:16. > :28:18.I've seen murder inquiries wrapped up well before then.

:28:19. > :28:21.It's just appalling, the way we've been treated.

:28:22. > :28:25.We are a small charity, we are not major criminals.

:28:26. > :28:28.Rotherham Council says it has a duty to robustly and fairly

:28:29. > :28:31.consider complaints, it's appointed independent

:28:32. > :28:35.investigators, and can't comment further.

:28:36. > :28:41.But Jayne Senior says the year-long investigation has taken its toll.

:28:42. > :28:48.Here we are, nearly three years on, and I feel more vilified than some

:28:49. > :28:57.That is how you feel at the moment, you feel vilified?

:28:58. > :29:10.These have been difficult years for Rotherham,

:29:11. > :29:13.but there have also been significant successes, gaining some justice

:29:14. > :29:24.For many of these young women, it completely shattered their lives.

:29:25. > :29:27.At three major trials, 19 people involved in exploiting

:29:28. > :29:32.children in the town were given long jail terms.

:29:33. > :29:37.The names of the ring leaders were very familiar to Dr Angie Heal.

:29:38. > :29:40.They were included in the report she wrote for South Yorkshire Police

:29:41. > :29:44.in the early 2000s which was sent to senior officers.

:29:45. > :29:49.I was detailing some of the cases that were taking place,

:29:50. > :29:51.I was making it very, very clear that these were organised

:29:52. > :29:55.criminals that were abusing children in Rotherham and elsewhere

:29:56. > :30:02.There are 88 ongoing investigations into how police officers

:30:03. > :30:04.handled these cases, but Dr Heal wants to know why,

:30:05. > :30:07.still, none of the highest ranking officers have had to account

:30:08. > :30:15.We've had at least 1,400 children over a 13-year

:30:16. > :30:21.period, probably much more, sexually exploited.

:30:22. > :30:24.We've now had, in the past 18 months, at least 19 offenders

:30:25. > :30:29.convicted and sentenced to nearly 300 years between them.

:30:30. > :30:32.And yet we have not had the senior command team properly investigated

:30:33. > :30:35.for what went wrong on their watch, during that time.

:30:36. > :30:47.Certainly, for at least one of those 1,400, sucked

:30:48. > :30:53.into a violent world as a child, too little seems to have changed.

:30:54. > :30:55.Gemma Roberts was still talking to the National Crime Agency,

:30:56. > :31:00.but her family says she struggled to cope with the memories.

:31:01. > :31:02.She went into drugs more severely, because she tried to blank

:31:03. > :31:09.It was upsetting her, she was wetting the bed,

:31:10. > :31:17.In January, she was living in supported housing here in Rotherham.

:31:18. > :31:28.She'd been involved with these guys, with drugs and running with drugs,

:31:29. > :31:32.and got her that deep into it that, for whatever reason,

:31:33. > :31:47.there's no reason, she got raped by six Asian men.

:31:48. > :31:49.Nearly a month later, the police still hadn't

:31:50. > :31:54.Soon after, she was found dead from a morphine overdose.

:31:55. > :31:56.Unable to escape her abusers, her death a tragic symbol

:31:57. > :31:59.of the importance of learning from the past.

:32:00. > :32:01.They were still there from the care system,

:32:02. > :32:04.still there until she died at 35, and they are still there now,

:32:05. > :32:14.These, I wouldn't call them men, these perpetrators

:32:15. > :32:37.And terribly sad story, Gemma's story, and I should say both South

:32:38. > :32:42.Yorkshire Police and Rotherham council have apologised for past

:32:43. > :32:46.failings, and in Gemma's case, they send their condolences and say they

:32:47. > :32:50.are saddened by the tragic death. South Yorkshire Police say there are

:32:51. > :32:54.many crimes, which are family mentioned, and that all reported

:32:55. > :32:57.incidents involving Gemma had been thoroughly investigated and

:32:58. > :33:02.finalised and they take all incidences involving guns and

:33:03. > :33:06.firearms extremely seriously. In terms of the concerns raised by Dr

:33:07. > :33:13.Heal, South Yorkshire Police turn to a report written for the crime and

:33:14. > :33:17.Police Commissioner, saying that significant lessons had been learned

:33:18. > :33:21.and improvements made. That is also worth saying that the National Crime

:33:22. > :33:25.Agency, which deals with most of the historic cases of abuse, says that

:33:26. > :33:29.in all information it is satisfied that all information relevant to its

:33:30. > :33:35.investigations have been shared with it. Moving on to Jane senior's case,

:33:36. > :33:39.since we contacted the council, she has now received details, written

:33:40. > :33:46.details of the accusations that she faces. We have spoken to a survivor

:33:47. > :33:50.of abuse who did not want to take part in the programme at this time.

:33:51. > :33:53.I want to emphasise something on this, which I think is really

:33:54. > :33:57.important, and that is that after all that happened in rather and in

:33:58. > :34:03.other places, it is vital, it is essential that people who are facing

:34:04. > :34:06.exploitation and abuse feel able to complain and know that it will be

:34:07. > :34:13.investigated thoroughly. That is not whether concerns lie -- lie here.

:34:14. > :34:15.The investigators will have to weigh up the allegations made and decide

:34:16. > :34:19.the right and wrong is of that. That is their job. But what we are

:34:20. > :34:24.looking at here is the process, and we now know that the local

:34:25. > :34:29.government, or we understand that the local government ombudsman will

:34:30. > :34:33.be looking at the handling of Jane Senior's case, the way in which

:34:34. > :34:36.Rotherham council has dealt with it. Now, rather is certainly not the

:34:37. > :34:43.only place where they have had problems with exploitation. We have

:34:44. > :34:48.had problems in Rochdale. Most recently in Newcastle where 19

:34:49. > :34:52.people were convicted about ten days ago. So I think that underlines the

:34:53. > :34:58.significance of a problem across the country but also the difficulties of

:34:59. > :35:00.tackling it. Thank you ever so much for doing that film for us and we

:35:01. > :35:01.will be talking about this later on. And if you have any concerns

:35:02. > :35:04.about what we've just covered, there's more information

:35:05. > :35:06.on the BBC Action Line - Calls are free and are open 24-hours

:35:07. > :35:11.a day, and there's a full list of support and organisations

:35:12. > :35:22.available at bbc.co.uk/actionline. Identity fraud has reached almost

:35:23. > :35:28.epidemic proportions in the UK, with almost 500 cases

:35:29. > :35:30.reported every day. Analysts say four in five cases

:35:31. > :35:34.occur in cyber space. Protesters and police clash outside

:35:35. > :35:37.a Trump rally in Arizona. We'll be speaking to one

:35:38. > :35:39.of the protesters and a young Republican who attended the US

:35:40. > :35:50.President's speech. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:35:51. > :35:55.with a summary of today's news. Princes William and Harry have

:35:56. > :35:57.described their bewilderment when they encountered

:35:58. > :35:59.grieving crowds, on the day Speaking to a BBC

:36:00. > :36:03.documentary marking 20 years since the death of Princess Diana -

:36:04. > :36:06.they say walking behind her coffin Harry had previously said walking

:36:07. > :36:10.behind her coffin aged 12 was something no child "should be

:36:11. > :36:44.asked to do". the government will today vowed to

:36:45. > :36:45.end what it calls the direct jurisdiction of the European Court

:36:46. > :36:48.of Justice in the UK after Brexit. A paper being published will insist

:36:49. > :36:51.such an arrangement would be "neither necessary nor appropriate"

:36:52. > :36:53.once Britain has left the European Union -

:36:54. > :36:55.adding there are other ways But critics say European judges

:36:56. > :37:02.could retain some influence. Identity theft is reaching "epidemic

:37:03. > :37:04.levels", with almost 500 cases a day according to a leading

:37:05. > :37:08.fraud prevention organisation. CIFAS says there were

:37:09. > :37:09.nearly 90,000 cases in the first six months

:37:10. > :37:12.of this year - a 5% rise. ID fraudsters steal personal

:37:13. > :37:15.information before using it to apply That's a summary of the latest BBC

:37:16. > :37:26.News - more at 10.00am. Here's some sport now

:37:27. > :37:37.with Leah Boleto. England will be planning to yet

:37:38. > :37:41.another women's rugby World Cup final, their fifth in a row. They

:37:42. > :37:45.only needed two tries in a tense semifinal with France. They won

:37:46. > :37:49.20-3, and will defend their title against New Zealand in Belfast on

:37:50. > :37:54.Saturday. The countdown and chaos has started ahead of this week and's

:37:55. > :37:57.fight between Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor. Both men have

:37:58. > :38:00.alighted Las Vegas ahead of their showdown in the early hours of

:38:01. > :38:04.Sunday morning. Celtic are through to the group stages of the Champions

:38:05. > :38:10.League. They got past Astana 8-4/2 legs. Liverpool could join them in

:38:11. > :38:14.tomorrow's draw, they play Hoffenheim tonight, leading 2-1 from

:38:15. > :38:18.their first leg, and England's key players are through to the

:38:19. > :38:21.semifinals of the Euro hockey finals. The men could join them if

:38:22. > :38:24.they beat Ireland this afternoon. President Trump has again lashed out

:38:25. > :38:27.at what he calls "fake news", He said the media had

:38:28. > :38:31.misrepresented his response to the violence at a far-right

:38:32. > :38:40.rally in Virgina, which Anti-Trump protesters who had

:38:41. > :38:44.gathered outside the rally clashed with police after the event had

:38:45. > :38:47.finished. Release reportedly deployed tear gas, after some of the

:38:48. > :38:50.protesters threw some bottles and rocks.

:38:51. > :38:52.During his 80-minute speech, President Trump went on to read out

:38:53. > :38:56.part of a speech he had given a few hours after the Charlottesville

:38:57. > :38:58.violence, but he left out the controversial claim that "both

:38:59. > :39:05.This is what he had to say about the media's coverage.

:39:06. > :39:11.But the point is that those were three different, there were two

:39:12. > :39:15.statement and one news conference. The words were perfect, they only

:39:16. > :39:20.take out anything they can think of, and for the most part all they do is

:39:21. > :39:24.complain. But they don't put on those words, and they don't put on

:39:25. > :39:27.me saying those words. The media can attack me, but where I draw the line

:39:28. > :39:37.is when they attack you, which is what they do. When they attack the

:39:38. > :39:40.decency of our supporters. CHEERING These are truly dishonest people,

:39:41. > :39:44.and not all of them, not all of them, you have some very good

:39:45. > :39:49.reporters, you have some very fair journalists, but for the most part,

:39:50. > :39:53.honestly, these are really, really dishonest people, and they are bad

:39:54. > :39:57.people, and I really think they don't like our country, I really

:39:58. > :40:00.believe that. And I don't believe there are going to change, and

:40:01. > :40:05.that's why I do this. If they would change, I would never say it. The

:40:06. > :40:07.only people giving a platform to these hate groups is the media is

:40:08. > :40:11.itself, and the fake news. CHEERING Earlier, I spoke to Ryan Norton,

:40:12. > :40:13.who protested outside the rally. And Austin Smith, treasurer

:40:14. > :40:15.of Arizona Young Republicans, who attended

:40:16. > :40:28.President Trump's speech. Donald Trump was warm with his

:40:29. > :40:34.welcome here in the great state of Arizona. It was very high energy.

:40:35. > :40:37.There was over, I think, 19,000 people came to this rally, as some

:40:38. > :40:43.people may not know that Donald Trump started his presidential

:40:44. > :40:50.campaign in Arizona, so it felt like a welcome home party for him. So it

:40:51. > :40:55.was a really, really good rally. Ryan, you were on the outside,

:40:56. > :40:59.clearly a different perspective you. You were demonstrating against

:41:00. > :41:07.Donald Trump? Yes. Explain why. Thanks for having me. I think as

:41:08. > :41:13.Americans we have a right to speak up, a responsibility, even, when we

:41:14. > :41:16.see things we don't agree with in government, especially at the level

:41:17. > :41:23.of the president. And what we have seen over the last seven months, to

:41:24. > :41:28.millions of Oscar Ouma is just unacceptable. What was the mood like

:41:29. > :41:34.on the streets, just explain the people who are watching? It was

:41:35. > :41:39.exuberant. It was exciting, it was energetic, it was electric. People

:41:40. > :41:48.were enthusiastic, people were energised. There was a lot of

:41:49. > :41:53.camaraderie. People were just excited to know that in a state like

:41:54. > :42:00.Arizona, that is very conservative, they weren't alone. And in that

:42:01. > :42:07.setting it felt great to be able to stand up and say I don't agree with

:42:08. > :42:09.any of this. Austin Connelly do you object to the anti-Trump protests

:42:10. > :42:15.that were taking place outside of the hall where you work? Absolutely

:42:16. > :42:20.not. I may disagree with why they are protesting but I fully support

:42:21. > :42:24.their right to protest, as an American, and as a conservative, I

:42:25. > :42:27.wholeheartedly agree with the right to demonstration, the first

:42:28. > :42:31.Amendment and free speech. That's what makes this a special place.

:42:32. > :42:38.Even as when President Obama was president, I know that a lot of

:42:39. > :42:41.people on my side would demonstrate against President Obama, and that

:42:42. > :42:45.was right to do that, so the opposition, the more progressive

:42:46. > :42:51.side in politics, they have that same absolute God-given right here

:42:52. > :42:54.in Arizona and the rest of the. Many people who watched this address by

:42:55. > :42:58.Donald Trump said it was more like a campaign rally than a presidential

:42:59. > :43:02.speech. Is that what it felt like inside the hall? I mean, he was

:43:03. > :43:08.criticising the media for a lot of his speech. It did feel like a

:43:09. > :43:12.campaign rally, but that's who Donald Trump is. He is not a very

:43:13. > :43:15.typical president, as we have seen in the last eight months, he is

:43:16. > :43:18.doing something a little bit different. I do think that those

:43:19. > :43:23.rallies do help him to push his agenda forward. He says he is with

:43:24. > :43:26.us, the people, and that is how he continues to move his messaging, and

:43:27. > :43:31.to stay in June with the heartbeat of the American people, and that

:43:32. > :43:36.Israeli what his rally was like on the inside, as you can see when he

:43:37. > :43:39.goes to West Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio and as though similar

:43:40. > :43:42.type of rallies. That is what Donald Trump does and how he moves his

:43:43. > :43:47.agenda forward to get the American people behind it. Similarly Ronald

:43:48. > :43:50.Reagan would do the same thing, when he was president, he would address

:43:51. > :43:54.the American people, to go to Congress and to talk to their

:43:55. > :43:58.representatives to get a conservative agenda moving. Austin,

:43:59. > :44:05.let me bring in Ryan, he is smiling and raising his eyebrows, by all

:44:06. > :44:09.means speak to Austin. Well, no, I understand what he is saying and my

:44:10. > :44:14.only issue with it is what we have seen of Donald Trump is that he is

:44:15. > :44:22.much more of a candidate. He is not a president. Austin talks about

:44:23. > :44:26.pushing his agenda forward, but what has that achieved? I mean, there has

:44:27. > :44:34.been no major legislation passed, and by all accounts any legislative

:44:35. > :44:39.agenda he has has failed, thus far. And that's when he is in control of

:44:40. > :44:46.both houses of Congress. He comes to these rallies, I personally think,

:44:47. > :44:51.because he gets tired of people outside of the echo chamber

:44:52. > :44:56.questioning him. And I think he is a man that has got such a fragile ego

:44:57. > :45:01.that he needs that echo chamber in order to recharge as batteries, so

:45:02. > :45:07.that he can continue on. How would you respond to that, Austin?

:45:08. > :45:15.I would say President Obama did the exact same thing when he was

:45:16. > :45:22.president. He did it, too. I think it is a good idea for any president

:45:23. > :45:26.to have rallies, to get back towards the people, to get behind what the

:45:27. > :45:30.American people want for an agenda, what Donald Trump ran on. He said he

:45:31. > :45:39.is not going to be a typical president. I would encourage more of

:45:40. > :45:47.it. It is like a politician appearing in a town hall. It is the

:45:48. > :45:51.same sort of thing. Go-ahead, Ryan. The whole thing with the echo

:45:52. > :45:57.chambers and him needing to hear praise all the time, it's kind of

:45:58. > :46:08.bizarre that we are at a point where... He lied to you guys inside

:46:09. > :46:13.tonight. What did he lie about? If you were a protest in, how do you

:46:14. > :46:22.know what he lied about? I watched it when I came home. White What

:46:23. > :46:28.specifically did he lie about? He repeated his statement about

:46:29. > :46:33.Charlottesville where he talked about people on both sides. He

:46:34. > :46:38.omitted that entire portion of his statement when he was saying it back

:46:39. > :46:46.to everybody. The main part of his speech that he got so much grief

:46:47. > :46:50.for, he'll -- completely omitted it. Austen, was he right to do that? He

:46:51. > :46:56.repeated the speech he made after the event in Charlottesville where

:46:57. > :47:02.one woman was killed when a car was driven into a crowd of

:47:03. > :47:08.anti-far-right protestors. He said at the time both sides were to blame

:47:09. > :47:11.for that. He admitted that. -- he omitted that from his speech last

:47:12. > :47:17.night. Was that the right thing to do? No, I don't think it was the

:47:18. > :47:20.right thing to do. I am part of the Conservative group that was very

:47:21. > :47:27.disappointed in Donald Trump that he had to repeat himself multiple times

:47:28. > :47:32.when he had the opportunity, or must they slam dunk scenario, to diminish

:47:33. > :47:36.both sides for their actions. I do think it is an opportunity for a

:47:37. > :47:40.Donald Trump to learn from this situation, that he has to move

:47:41. > :47:44.forward from something like this. Unfortunately, I hope we never see

:47:45. > :47:50.these types of acts again. It may happen. President has unique

:47:51. > :47:53.opportunity to make sure that a situation like this, if it happens

:47:54. > :47:54.again, he doesn't make the same type of mistake.

:47:55. > :47:57.Identity theft is reaching "epidemic levels", according

:47:58. > :48:00.to a fraud prevention group, with personal details being stolen

:48:01. > :48:07.People in their 30s are now most likely to be targeted by fraudsters,

:48:08. > :48:10.who often use the data to apply for loans and store cards.

:48:11. > :48:13.More than half of all fraud recorded by the data organisation

:48:14. > :48:18.There are fears that police are struggling to cope

:48:19. > :48:22.with the scale of this crime, and there's a suggestion today

:48:23. > :48:26.they might need help from expert volunteers with expert IT skills.

:48:27. > :48:30.Let's speak now to David Kirk, who is the chairman

:48:31. > :48:32.of the Fraud Advisory Panel, who says the police response to cyber

:48:33. > :48:35.Alexander Hitchcock from the independent think

:48:36. > :48:39.tank Reform, whose report out today says the police need

:48:40. > :48:44.to recruit 12,000 volunteers in order to tackle the issue.

:48:45. > :48:46.From Worcester we have Jacqui Ryland, a fitness

:48:47. > :48:50.and glamour model who ended up being threatened after her

:48:51. > :48:54.And from Durham we have Detective Constable Tony Murray

:48:55. > :48:56.from Durham Constabulary's fraud investigation department,

:48:57. > :49:11.which is one of the forces boosting its fraud and cyber crime teams.

:49:12. > :49:17.I want to start with you, Jackie. You have had your identity stolen

:49:18. > :49:26.online. Explain briefly what happened? Basically, I have got a

:49:27. > :49:33.really high social media following. You name it, I have had fake

:49:34. > :49:41.profiles put on there. The really serious one was last year. Someone

:49:42. > :49:46.used my pictures to sell to strangers to arrange what he called

:49:47. > :49:53.meetings. I would never turn up. They were based in America or

:49:54. > :49:55.Canada. The people he had conned the money out of, came after me. They

:49:56. > :50:01.threaten my children. They threatened me. The police couldn't

:50:02. > :50:06.help me at all. Were they are unwilling or unable? In their view

:50:07. > :50:11.they said because it was all happening on Twitter and Gmail, they

:50:12. > :50:15.find it extremely difficult to cooperate with the social media

:50:16. > :50:21.channels. So Twitter they can't cooperate with. They said the

:50:22. > :50:26.e-mails were in broken English, so they were probably from abroad. They

:50:27. > :50:32.couldn't do anything about that. Detective car or Tony Murray, that

:50:33. > :50:38.is an extreme example of identity theft being stolen. What are the

:50:39. > :50:45.more common examples? Fraud hurts, that is what comes across there. The

:50:46. > :50:50.more common examples are that people every day have their precious

:50:51. > :50:56.personal data stolen. That could be their addresses, their date of

:50:57. > :51:00.birth, their banking details. It is precious to us, but it is very

:51:01. > :51:06.valuable to fraudsters. When they get it, it enables other fraud. When

:51:07. > :51:09.people call, when people e-mail, when people text us, they can

:51:10. > :51:14.socially engineer because they already know us. You can buy

:51:15. > :51:21.someone's identity on the dark web for as little as 4p. It is important

:51:22. > :51:28.we protect ourselves. If on Twitter or Facebook, we need to protect our

:51:29. > :51:32.date of birth. Is there any need to tell everyone on Facebook what our

:51:33. > :51:37.date of birth is, so we can say happy birthday? If you have not got

:51:38. > :51:42.your privacy settings set correctly, that could advertise the date of

:51:43. > :51:50.birth to anyone. Once they have got that information, what are they then

:51:51. > :51:56.using that information to do? They are using that information to take

:51:57. > :52:01.out loans, to take out cards. They are using that information so that

:52:02. > :52:05.when people ring us or e-mail people, they can know them. They can

:52:06. > :52:11.say, I'm your bank. I know your name, I know your account number.

:52:12. > :52:15.They can pretend to be the bank. They can use technology to coincide.

:52:16. > :52:19.They can spoof caller ID to make it look like a genuine number on the

:52:20. > :52:24.telephone. They can pretend to be us and full other people and commit

:52:25. > :52:29.fraud, and therefore expose us do a risk of loss and others, and fund

:52:30. > :52:37.serious crime. Or they can pretend to be others and know us. It puts us

:52:38. > :52:42.all in danger of risk and fraud and losing money. Fraud really hurts.

:52:43. > :52:47.David, you have said the police response is inadequate. Why do you

:52:48. > :52:52.think that? Well, because there is such a huge epidemic of fraud in

:52:53. > :52:56.this area, that it needs more resource to deal with it. The

:52:57. > :53:03.problem the police have is that this is all entirely new. It has been new

:53:04. > :53:10.over the last ten or so years. It is a new type of fraud. It is a kind of

:53:11. > :53:15.activity which the police have got to get up to speed with and it needs

:53:16. > :53:20.a lot of resource. Before I bring you in, Alex, do you think,

:53:21. > :53:25.detective cost of a lorry, that police have the digital skills to

:53:26. > :53:32.deal with this kind of crime? -- detective cost of Murray. I think we

:53:33. > :53:36.can do more. We can all improve. In Durham there is a programme to

:53:37. > :53:39.increase the skills in relation to digital investigation so we can

:53:40. > :53:45.secure and preserve the evidence better. We should all look to

:53:46. > :53:49.improve. But to do that, it is fairly new. It is dynamic. But we

:53:50. > :53:53.need to all recognise and work together, all sectors, the public,

:53:54. > :53:59.the voluntary sector, the private sector. Because together we are

:54:00. > :54:03.better. There are people with skill sets and if those people are

:54:04. > :54:08.available, the police service, you can volunteer for the police

:54:09. > :54:16.service, for the cybercrime -- cyber crime unit. They are very skilled.

:54:17. > :54:20.Let's talk about that. Alex, you are suggesting effectively 12,000

:54:21. > :54:26.digital volunteers to help police? Yes, fraud is part of a wider crime.

:54:27. > :54:29.47% of crime is done online today. The police need the skills to

:54:30. > :54:36.address this new threat. Part of this is using volunteers who are

:54:37. > :54:43.experts. Police use special constables currently. Of 13,000,

:54:44. > :54:48.only 40 Wrighty experts. We are calling for a radical increase in

:54:49. > :54:53.the number of these experts who can help forces, who can write

:54:54. > :54:56.programmes, and hopefully that is a better offer for the police forces

:54:57. > :55:01.trying to fight the crime and also people who are victims. David, is

:55:02. > :55:07.this the answer? Aren't IT experts could -- going to be busy going to

:55:08. > :55:13.work instead of volunteering? I think it is a nice idea. It is

:55:14. > :55:15.something that, as Alex mentions, a special constable problem has been

:55:16. > :55:21.very effective. The problem with trying to line up 12,000 volunteers

:55:22. > :55:25.is you will have a security issue. You will want to know who these

:55:26. > :55:30.people are and whether they are using this as an opportunity to get

:55:31. > :55:39.behind the action. And cause more trouble. It is a nice idea and it

:55:40. > :55:47.should be pursued. But it will take some care to set it up. Tony Murray,

:55:48. > :55:52.does that sound sensible to you? What Alex touches on is a brilliant

:55:53. > :55:57.idea. That means we need more volunteers, we need people to engage

:55:58. > :56:02.across all sectors, because together we can be better. What we need to do

:56:03. > :56:11.is know what the message is. If we had more people... Durham police

:56:12. > :56:15.have trade volunteers -- train volunteers. They are giving the

:56:16. > :56:22.elderly tips about the five key enablers of fraud. They are advising

:56:23. > :56:29.them to keep them safe. That's what I wanted to get into, if I can.

:56:30. > :56:34.Isn't this just about us all learning to be more Internet savvy

:56:35. > :56:41.and not giving out those details, your birthday etc? That is a

:56:42. > :56:44.critical starting point. In 2013, the government watchdog said 80% of

:56:45. > :56:48.fraud online can be prevented through both ensuring that computers

:56:49. > :56:52.don't leave passwords and things like that, and people don't give

:56:53. > :56:55.them away. There is sophisticated fraud happening that does need

:56:56. > :57:02.police to be on top of it, to know what is going on. The dark web is an

:57:03. > :57:04.anonymous Internet server. It is very difficult to track down where

:57:05. > :57:09.people are coming from and what they are doing. That is where we find

:57:10. > :57:14.these details dumped for people to pick up and use the devastating

:57:15. > :57:20.ends. Yes, I quite agree with that. It is

:57:21. > :57:27.a difficult area to get into and to fight. It's a massive area that --

:57:28. > :57:31.of fraud that is going on and we need to be educated. I need to be

:57:32. > :57:36.educated on how to change my password, for example. We all do.

:57:37. > :57:43.Jackie, do you think you were a bit naive? It is really difficult. With

:57:44. > :57:46.my job there are a lot of pictures online. I don't post might kids

:57:47. > :57:51.online any more, purely because I don't want the pictures being used.

:57:52. > :58:00.I think the likes of Twitter and Instagram need to peak -- make it so

:58:01. > :58:06.that you only have one account. It would be easier to track these

:58:07. > :58:08.people down who are cat fishing. Thank you all for speaking to us

:58:09. > :58:10.today. I'm grateful for your time. Now the

:58:11. > :58:18.weather. It has been a pretty wet night

:58:19. > :58:22.across Northern Ireland and Scotland. We have seen some

:58:23. > :58:26.flooding. Still this morning we have a weather front draped across parts

:58:27. > :58:29.of Scotland. Northern parts of England as well. Gradually that

:58:30. > :58:35.Wiltshire North and East through the day. We have some sunshine to look

:58:36. > :58:39.forward to. Much of the brighter conditions before the south and west

:58:40. > :58:44.you are. You can see the thicker cloud across northern part of the

:58:45. > :58:47.British Isles. And some nice breaks for the South allowing some sunny

:58:48. > :58:52.spells to come through. That is where we are this morning. The rain

:58:53. > :58:57.band heavy at times, perhaps thundery. Gradually tracking its way

:58:58. > :59:02.north. Behind it, you can look forward to sunny spells. It will be

:59:03. > :59:05.breezy along coastal areas in the West, showers likely in Northern

:59:06. > :59:10.Ireland. For Devon and Cornwall, a lot of dry weather. Sunshine coming

:59:11. > :59:15.through the cloud. Still feeling humoured across East Anglia and the

:59:16. > :59:20.south-east. Temperatures around 22 Celsius. Cloudy for the Midlands.

:59:21. > :59:25.Writer spells in Western Scotland. We are likely to see showers in

:59:26. > :59:28.Northern Ireland. For a Western Scotland, a better end to the day.

:59:29. > :59:36.Some brightness coming through before sunset. Through tonight, the

:59:37. > :59:41.rain band will clear north and east. Behind it, a fairly quiet night.

:59:42. > :59:45.Clear skies. We will start to see more showers in Northern Ireland.

:59:46. > :59:51.Parts of Wales and the south-west. Feeling less muggy than last night,

:59:52. > :59:55.with temperatures ranging between 12 and 14 Celsius. Tomorrow, a better

:59:56. > :00:03.day for all of us. Some sunny spells but the risk of some showers the

:00:04. > :00:06.further north and west you are. Further south, high-pressure

:00:07. > :00:11.bringing a fine day. Highs 17 to 22 Celsius. As we head towards the end

:00:12. > :00:16.of the week, the weather still pretty decent. A lot of dry weather.

:00:17. > :00:20.The best of the brightness always across parts of the South and east.

:00:21. > :00:26.Further north and west more cloud and sunny spells, rain in Northern

:00:27. > :00:32.Ireland and parts of Scotland. As we head towards the weekend, a few

:00:33. > :00:38.showers on Saturday. Plenty of usable weather. Sunny spells. Much

:00:39. > :00:40.of the showers across parts of the north and west. Sunday is looking

:00:41. > :00:47.drier and brighter. The foster family of a young woman

:00:48. > :00:51.who was abused by gangs as a child in Rotherham tell us exclusively

:00:52. > :00:53.about the abuse she suffered and how the perpetrators

:00:54. > :01:08.are still at large. They were still there from the care

:01:09. > :01:13.system, until when she died at 35, and they are still there now. Out on

:01:14. > :01:15.the streets, I won't call them men, these perpetrators are still out

:01:16. > :01:16.there. We'll be looking at how much really

:01:17. > :01:25.has changed in Rotherham Should the government end of the

:01:26. > :01:31.European Court of Justice's direct jurisdiction over UK law? We would

:01:32. > :01:36.discuss how this could affect the EU as well as our lives. The first

:01:37. > :01:40.legal sale of rhino horn is due to be held in South Africa today. The

:01:41. > :01:44.breeder holding the auction says it is the best way to save the

:01:45. > :01:47.Endangered Species Act but conservationists say it will push

:01:48. > :01:48.them towards extinction. We will be speaking to both sides of the

:01:49. > :01:57.argument. Good morning, it is one minute past

:01:58. > :02:01.10am. Let's get the news with a Anita. Valli

:02:02. > :02:02.Princes William and Harry have described their bewilderment

:02:03. > :02:04.when they encountered grieving crowds, on the day

:02:05. > :02:07.Speaking to a BBC documentary marking 20 years

:02:08. > :02:10.since the death of Princess Diana - they say walking behind her coffin

:02:11. > :02:32.police have used tear gas to disperse outside a rally in Arizona.

:02:33. > :02:35.Media said some anti-Trump protesters had thrown bottles at

:02:36. > :02:44.police. Footage shows some protest is being pushed backwards. President

:02:45. > :02:45.Trump attack media reports of the disruption in Charlottesville,

:02:46. > :02:48.calling it dishonest. This programme has learned that

:02:49. > :02:50.a long running investigation into a charity worker who helped

:02:51. > :02:52.expose the child sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham is to be

:02:53. > :02:55.examined by the Local Government Jayne Senior has been investigated

:02:56. > :02:59.by Rotherham Council for a year, Ms Senior denies any wrongdoing

:03:00. > :03:02.and says it's a distraction from helping vulnerable young people

:03:03. > :03:04.in the town. I do not receive money

:03:05. > :03:06.for doing interviews. The only interview that I received

:03:07. > :03:09.a small amount of money for I don't and have not

:03:10. > :03:13.done this for money. Somebody told them that I was

:03:14. > :03:15.earning a significant amount The government will today vow to end

:03:16. > :03:33.what it calls the "direct jurisdiction" of the European Court

:03:34. > :03:36.of Justice in the UK after Brexit. A paper being published will insist

:03:37. > :03:39.such an arrangement would be "neither necessary nor appropriate"

:03:40. > :03:40.once Britain has left the European Union -

:03:41. > :03:43.adding there are other ways But critics say European judges

:03:44. > :03:47.could retain some influence. Identity theft is reaching

:03:48. > :03:49."epidemic levels", according to a leading

:03:50. > :03:52.fraud prevention organisation. CIFAS says there were

:03:53. > :03:53.nearly 90,000 cases in the first six months

:03:54. > :03:56.of this year - a 5% rise. ID fraudsters steal personal

:03:57. > :03:59.information before using it to apply Danish police have identified

:04:00. > :04:09.a headless torso found south of Copenhagen as the missing Swedish

:04:10. > :04:11.journalist, Kim Wall. The authorities believe she died

:04:12. > :04:13.on board a homemade submarine. The craft's inventor,

:04:14. > :04:40.Peter Madsen, has been accused Lot of you getting in touch about

:04:41. > :04:44.identity theft. Jim on Twitter said I had my bank account stolen and

:04:45. > :04:51.cleaned out. I tracked down the woman, they said ticket to my bank.

:04:52. > :04:54.Why fraud volunteers? There was a suggestion may be 12,000 volunteers

:04:55. > :04:57.could help the police. She says there should be professionals

:04:58. > :05:02.employed and paid for by Facebook, Google, Twitter and the banks. To

:05:03. > :05:05.continue to get in touch with us, using the hashtag Victoria Line Tube

:05:06. > :05:09.is if you text, do remember you will be charged at the standard network

:05:10. > :05:14.rate. Now some sport with Leo. England will play New Zealand in the

:05:15. > :05:19.final of the women's Rugby World Cup after a tense semifinal over France

:05:20. > :05:24.was that the final takes place in Belfast where Katherine Downes is

:05:25. > :05:29.for us. A fifth World Cup final offer England, this is incredible,

:05:30. > :05:32.isn't it? It is, a fifth World Cup final but this is the final everyone

:05:33. > :05:36.in the women's game was hoping for, the two best teams in the world,

:05:37. > :05:40.England and New Zealand going head-to-head for that title here in

:05:41. > :05:44.Belfast on Saturday. 20-3 the final score in that semifinal against

:05:45. > :05:47.France for England, which makes it sound one-sided but it certainly

:05:48. > :05:52.wasn't. England only one it really because of a watertight defence.

:05:53. > :05:55.They had to make 50 tackles in the first 15 minutes alone, just give

:05:56. > :05:59.you an idea of what a bruising encounter it was. In fact, it was

:06:00. > :06:03.the strength of the England defence that well France down. That gave

:06:04. > :06:07.England the opportunity just take their chances, though they were very

:06:08. > :06:10.few and far between. That's Sarah Bernd Storck you can see at the

:06:11. > :06:17.moment only the real team effort. The whole pack pushing her over the

:06:18. > :06:22.line. Meg Jones's try at the final whistle was just a quick piece of

:06:23. > :06:26.opportunities, but 20-3, they are through to the final, and that means

:06:27. > :06:30.captain Sarah Hunter can finally start thinking perhaps about

:06:31. > :06:34.back-to-back World Cup wins. Obviously our job was to get here

:06:35. > :06:38.and get the win, and we set out to get to a World Cup final and we have

:06:39. > :06:42.certainly done that. I think we will enjoy the performance tonight. We

:06:43. > :06:45.have said all along the way that you have two enjoy those little wins and

:06:46. > :06:50.the we have done that and tomorrow it will be back to square one.

:06:51. > :06:58.Recover, review and move on for that matter game on Saturday. So a tough,

:06:59. > :07:03.bruising encounter for England. In contrast, a Delhi winter there --

:07:04. > :07:07.fairly easy win for their opponents on Saturday, New Zealand, 45-12

:07:08. > :07:11.against the USA, running in seven tries on the way. England now have

:07:12. > :07:12.the patch themselves up, recover and look ahead to Saturday because it

:07:13. > :07:21.will be quite a final. Also today, Conor McGregor and Floyd

:07:22. > :07:26.Mayweather have arrived in Las Vegas ahead of their fight in the early

:07:27. > :07:29.hours of Sunday morning, UK time. McGregor was working the crowd with

:07:30. > :07:34.tonnes of support for the Irishman. The fight is yet to be a sell-out. A

:07:35. > :07:39.few thousand left, with the cheapest costing around ?400. Mayweather says

:07:40. > :07:43.he wants to give the fans more excitement. It is all about giving

:07:44. > :07:46.the fans what they want to see. I have been around the sport for so

:07:47. > :07:53.many years, and this is the last one. Conor can talk the talk, can he

:07:54. > :07:57.walk the walk? We will have to wait to see, that is what makes this

:07:58. > :08:02.fight and matchup so intriguing. I have been off for two years, they

:08:03. > :08:05.feel like I have lost a few steps, so we would see. Info book of Celtic

:08:06. > :08:08.have booked their place in tomorrow's offer the group stages of

:08:09. > :08:15.the Champions League, even though they lost the second leg 4-3, they

:08:16. > :08:18.won the play-off tie 8-4 overall. They will be amongst the bottom

:08:19. > :08:19.seeds of the draw aiming to reach the knockout stages for the first

:08:20. > :08:23.time since 2012. It is now three years since the Jay

:08:24. > :08:26.report revealed the horrific scale of sexual exploitation of children

:08:27. > :08:29.in the South Yorkshire Over the course of 15 years more

:08:30. > :08:32.than 1,400 children, some as young as 11,

:08:33. > :08:34.were subjected to trafficking, rape and torture by gangs of men

:08:35. > :08:37.who were predominantly of Pakistani origin while the police

:08:38. > :08:39.and authorities failed to act. The report was seen by many

:08:40. > :08:42.as a watershed moment in changing how authorities

:08:43. > :08:43.would deal with abuse. The BBC's social affairs

:08:44. > :08:47.correspondent Alison Holt has reported many times on the Rotherham

:08:48. > :08:49.grooming scandal and has now returned to the town for a special

:08:50. > :08:52.report for this programme. Before we talk to Alison,

:08:53. > :08:55.I should warn you that you may find the details of her film upsetting

:08:56. > :09:20.and it's not suitable if you have Allison, first of all, tell us what

:09:21. > :09:23.you fan when you return to Rotherham? It is exactly three years

:09:24. > :09:26.ago this week that the scandal emerged. At that time we were being

:09:27. > :09:32.told that children were ignored, professionals tried to warn of what

:09:33. > :09:34.was going on being sidelined and information not being shared. There

:09:35. > :09:40.has been progress since then, no doubt. But, worryingly, I have also

:09:41. > :09:43.been hearing from a whistle-blower who has talked about the difficult

:09:44. > :09:47.last year she has had. And also I have been hearing about abuse cases,

:09:48. > :09:51.which seemed to underline just how difficult it is to change some deep

:09:52. > :09:55.rooted attitudes. Rotherham in South Yorkshire

:09:56. > :09:57.is a town trying to emerge It's exactly three years

:09:58. > :10:02.since a report concluded that, over a decade, more than 1,400

:10:03. > :10:05.children were sexually exploited whilst the council and police

:10:06. > :10:08.looked the other way. Jayne Senior was a key

:10:09. > :10:10.whistle-blower who helped expose Last August, after complaints

:10:11. > :10:15.by a number of abuse survivors, Rotherham council put

:10:16. > :10:19.her under investigation. Speaking about it for

:10:20. > :10:21.the first time, she says Here we are, nearly three years on,

:10:22. > :10:28.and I feel more vilified than some That is how you feel

:10:29. > :10:42.at the moment, you feel vilified? She's accused of making money

:10:43. > :10:49.from media appearances and sharing But she only received details

:10:50. > :10:56.of the actual allegations last week I do not receive money

:10:57. > :11:04.for doing interviews. I don't and have not

:11:05. > :11:10.done this for money. Somebody told them that

:11:11. > :11:12.I was earning a significant amount of money - well,

:11:13. > :11:18.I'm not. Former detective Michael Fowler

:11:19. > :11:20.is on the management committee of the charity

:11:21. > :11:24.where Jayne Senior works. We have policies and procedures

:11:25. > :11:29.to deal with allegations. They've deliberately bypassed those,

:11:30. > :11:34.even when we've asked them to stop. It just seems as though, you know,

:11:35. > :11:37.they want to attack Jayne's character and discredit

:11:38. > :11:39.the work she's done. In response, Rotherham Council says

:11:40. > :11:49.it has a duty to robustly and fairly consider complaints and that it's

:11:50. > :11:54.appointed independent investigators. It also says it can't

:11:55. > :11:57.comment further. There have been some significant

:11:58. > :11:59.successes in the town, with major abusers being jailed,

:12:00. > :12:02.but there are also families who say it's still a struggle

:12:03. > :12:09.to get the help they need. This is when she were

:12:10. > :12:17.only a few months old. Gemma Roberts was first

:12:18. > :12:18.exploited whilst in Her foster parents claim,

:12:19. > :12:22.as an adult, plagued by the same abusers,

:12:23. > :12:24.it was still difficult The perpetrators that

:12:25. > :12:28.had got Gemma on drugs, lent her money, manipulating her,

:12:29. > :12:31.were coming to the door, Police didn't come on two

:12:32. > :12:46.occasions, they came on one. She felt, like I felt,

:12:47. > :12:50.that she wasn't listened to. In February of this year,

:12:51. > :12:53.Gemma died of a morphine overdose. She'd been waiting three weeks

:12:54. > :12:56.for the police to take her statement about being gang raped

:12:57. > :13:01.by her abusers. They were still there

:13:02. > :13:03.from the care system, still there until she died at 35,

:13:04. > :13:07.and they are still there now, South Yorkshire Police say

:13:08. > :13:12.they don't have details of the specific incidents

:13:13. > :13:14.and that they will But Gemma's death is a tragic

:13:15. > :13:35.reminder of the importance Both Rotherham council and South

:13:36. > :13:41.Yorkshire Police have apologised in the past about the failings going

:13:42. > :13:45.back by the period covered by the J report. South Yorkshire Police say

:13:46. > :13:49.they are saddened by Gemma's death and they will work with her family

:13:50. > :13:52.to try and understand what their particular concerns are. South

:13:53. > :13:57.Yorkshire Police also say there are many crimes that the family talk

:13:58. > :14:00.about, and all of the ones they have recorded they say have been

:14:01. > :14:06.investigated thoroughly and finalised. They also say that any

:14:07. > :14:10.incidents involving firearms are taken extremely seriously by the

:14:11. > :14:14.force. On Jayne Senior's case, we have spoken to an abuse survivor who

:14:15. > :14:18.didn't want to take part in this piece, but I think one thing we do

:14:19. > :14:23.need to emphasise is that, after all that has happened in the past, with

:14:24. > :14:27.people, children, being ignored when they are talking about abuse, it is

:14:28. > :14:31.absolutely essential that any complaint that is made is to relieve

:14:32. > :14:34.investigated, whoever it is. And it will be for the investigators to

:14:35. > :14:40.look at the allegations and decide the rights and wrongs there. The

:14:41. > :14:44.question here is about the process, and we understand that the local

:14:45. > :14:48.government ombudsman is going to be investigating the way in which

:14:49. > :14:53.Rotherham council has handled this complaint against Jayne Senior. We

:14:54. > :14:59.also know that, earlier this year, a police investigation into the

:15:00. > :15:02.complaints was dropped, it found no case to answer. There is also

:15:03. > :15:03.questions about whether enough lessons have been learned about the

:15:04. > :15:13.conduct of the police? Those will be ongoing questions for

:15:14. > :15:20.anybody involved in a place like Rotherham. Someone who wrote reports

:15:21. > :15:24.for South Yorkshire Police, a series of reports that warned about what

:15:25. > :15:29.she was seeing, basically telling them about the exploitation.

:15:30. > :15:33.Although there are Independent Police Complaints Commission

:15:34. > :15:41.investigations into officers 88 which are ongoing, the point she is

:15:42. > :15:45.making is that still she feels that no senior officer, nobody in the

:15:46. > :15:48.senior command team, has had to account for the decisions made at

:15:49. > :15:54.that point in time. She believes until that is done, we can't fully

:15:55. > :16:01.learn lessons. South Yorkshire Police say there have been

:16:02. > :16:07.significant improvements. All of this underlines the importance of

:16:08. > :16:14.actually understanding rather than learning from it. We all know too

:16:15. > :16:18.well that rather is not unique. We have had Rochdale, Oxford and most

:16:19. > :16:23.recently, Newcastle, where ten days ago 19 people were convicted of

:16:24. > :16:27.sexual exploit Asian charges. It shows how much we need to keep

:16:28. > :16:31.questioning this area. And if we are going to provide the protection that

:16:32. > :16:35.vulnerable children need, how much we need to learn in these

:16:36. > :16:36.situations. Alison Holt, thank you for bringing that report.

:16:37. > :16:39.As we've seen in our report, the authorities, who had

:16:40. > :16:40.ignored the problem, promised change.

:16:41. > :16:42.But three years on, how much has really happened?

:16:43. > :16:44.We're joined now by Dr Alan Billings, the Police

:16:45. > :16:47.and Crime Commissioner for South Yorkshire.

:16:48. > :16:49.Nazir Afzal, the former Chief Crown Prosecutor

:16:50. > :16:51.for the North West, whose work led to the Rochdale

:16:52. > :16:56.And Aneeta Prem, human rights activist for charity

:16:57. > :17:06.children and teenagers on sex and sexual exploitation.

:17:07. > :17:15.Thank you all for joining us. Anita, I want to start with you. Anybody

:17:16. > :17:21.watching that film is going to see what a harrowing story Gemma's story

:17:22. > :17:28.was. Just one story. Is this kind of abuse still going on now?

:17:29. > :17:32.Unfortunately it is. This is not unique and Gemma's death can't be in

:17:33. > :17:36.vain. The fact you reported this and wasn't listened to I think it is

:17:37. > :17:40.really important that Senior officers are made accountable for

:17:41. > :17:45.what happened at the time. I think it is very important when a young

:17:46. > :17:49.person anybody comes forward to put this kind of horrific case, people

:17:50. > :17:52.being trafficked, raped and tortured, that they are taken

:17:53. > :17:56.seriously and there is a complete chain of command where we know

:17:57. > :18:01.exactly what is going on, it can't be hidden away. Too many of these

:18:02. > :18:08.cases are. Nottingham. That case as well. There are many cases out

:18:09. > :18:14.there. We will talk about police failings and looking back. But let's

:18:15. > :18:18.look forward. Do you think the police are changing the way they

:18:19. > :18:22.view these people? There was a time before the Jay Report they were

:18:23. > :18:28.almost seen as willing participants, these young girls. Now being seen as

:18:29. > :18:33.victims? I think that is the big chains. One of the first things I

:18:34. > :18:36.did when I became Police and Crime Commissioner was to establish a

:18:37. > :18:40.panel of victims, survivors as they preferred to call themselves, and

:18:41. > :18:44.their families, so I could learn about grooming, what it was, why it

:18:45. > :18:52.had happened and where the Police Federation work, and introduced them

:18:53. > :18:56.to the police. Victims have been influencing the training the police

:18:57. > :19:00.have. We have brought agencies together. They are all located in

:19:01. > :19:04.one place. You have got the local authority, the NHS, Barnardos and

:19:05. > :19:09.police all in the same building sharing information. And crucially,

:19:10. > :19:16.in South Yorkshire there have been these prosecutions. 1400 girls, all

:19:17. > :19:22.fenders arrived there, they need to be brought to justice. That is

:19:23. > :19:27.beginning to happen. Five big trials with big sentences sends out an

:19:28. > :19:29.important message. Snazzier, do you think enough is being done to

:19:30. > :19:37.protect Fulham will people right now? Let me pay tribute to Doctor

:19:38. > :19:40.Billings. He inherited the situation in South Yorkshire and he has tried

:19:41. > :19:48.to put things in place to provide the victims with the voice they

:19:49. > :19:53.need. My senses there are is a substantial amount of complacency.

:19:54. > :19:58.Surely we recognise there are massive resourcing issues. It does

:19:59. > :20:00.cost policing about ?1 billion last year to investigate child sexual

:20:01. > :20:08.abuse. That will increase over the next four years. There are massive

:20:09. > :20:11.issues for those charities. There are many in the north that don't

:20:12. > :20:15.have the resources to provide the support from victims they need. I

:20:16. > :20:20.was talking to a survivor last night in Rotherham. She said to me she is

:20:21. > :20:24.really concerned we are not dealing with the future. What about the

:20:25. > :20:35.future fenders? There is not enough going on in relation young boys or

:20:36. > :20:38.girls. -- all fenders. My sense is that we are making progress,

:20:39. > :20:41.absolutely. There are many cases going through the courts but the

:20:42. > :20:49.courts do not have the capacity to deal with the work coming their way.

:20:50. > :20:53.I feel like a stuck record, good progress but plenty more to do. My

:20:54. > :20:58.other concern is about what is happening within the communities

:20:59. > :21:03.themselves. They took a real shock, rightly so, three years ago when

:21:04. > :21:07.they learned of this report and what was happening. Some sizeable work

:21:08. > :21:10.went on for a while. Then when the cameras went away and the

:21:11. > :21:14.broadcasters moved on, all of that died down. I'm sure tomorrow there

:21:15. > :21:18.will be sizeable amounts of work going on for a little while, but

:21:19. > :21:24.again the microscope and leaves town and they and up moving on to other

:21:25. > :21:29.priorities. I think it is relevant you talked about moving forward.

:21:30. > :21:37.People will be familiar that last week Sarah Champion, the rather MP,

:21:38. > :21:41.-- rather MP, she resigned. She said Britain has a problem with British

:21:42. > :21:46.Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls. There, I said it. Does

:21:47. > :21:51.that make me racist or am I just prepared to call out this horrifying

:21:52. > :21:55.problem for what it is? She then had to apologise. I apologise, some

:21:56. > :22:00.people will find that offensive, but it is important people know what he

:22:01. > :22:07.said. People say she is calling it right. Why is she having to resign?

:22:08. > :22:12.Do you think she was calling it out right now we stay scared to talk

:22:13. > :22:18.about race in this context? People are very nervous talking about race.

:22:19. > :22:23.We know in this case the men came from Pakistani descent. But we can't

:22:24. > :22:27.say all Pakistani men are perpetrators. We have to be really

:22:28. > :22:32.careful. But we need to look at education and go into schools, which

:22:33. > :22:40.we are doing, and talk to young men and women about how they can report

:22:41. > :22:44.sensibly and about women's rights. It is important we look at the next

:22:45. > :22:49.generation and how this is going to be dealt with. Is a cultural

:22:50. > :22:54.problem? I have spoken out on this subject several times. What Sarah

:22:55. > :22:59.said, I wouldn't have said it without the context. 80% of the

:23:00. > :23:05.child sex offenders in this country are white males. British Pakistani

:23:06. > :23:08.men are disproportionately involved. Sarah is only echoing what I have

:23:09. > :23:14.said for the best part of five years. She shouldn't have had to

:23:15. > :23:18.resign. We don't shoot the message -- messenger if we don't like the

:23:19. > :23:22.masses. We in the communities have to tackle this issue. It is not just

:23:23. > :23:28.about policing education. We have the perpetrators. Ultimately, we

:23:29. > :23:33.have got to challenge them on what they do. Doctor Billings, I want to

:23:34. > :23:38.ask you, because the whistle-blower who took part in that film has been

:23:39. > :23:41.told by people that children are still being abused. Are you actively

:23:42. > :23:48.pursuing investigations into claims right now about children being

:23:49. > :23:52.abused in Rotherham? Yorkshire police are dealing with all of the

:23:53. > :23:58.current cases of abuse. There are a lot of them. More than 100 are

:23:59. > :24:02.currently being investigated. Some of the things you are talking about

:24:03. > :24:05.are not recent cases. They are investigated as well. The National

:24:06. > :24:10.Crime Agency are doing that in South Yorkshire. You have got 117

:24:11. > :24:17.detectives from the National Crime Agency actively at work and rather

:24:18. > :24:22.ham -- Rotherham. They have not been able to bring anything to trial yet.

:24:23. > :24:26.To get these things to trial, if they are not recent, you have no

:24:27. > :24:32.forensic evidence, you are dependent on what the victims say in court.

:24:33. > :24:36.And getting these vulnerable people and wrapping the care around them,

:24:37. > :24:42.bringing them to court, educating the prosecution, the CPS. And

:24:43. > :24:49.educating judges as well as to how you conduct a case, where there may

:24:50. > :24:53.be one victim, their witnesses and perhaps nine barristers for the

:24:54. > :24:57.defendants, all having their aggressive questions. It is not

:24:58. > :25:02.easy. I want to ask you one more question before we leave this story.

:25:03. > :25:05.Many people will want to know this. There has been criticism that none

:25:06. > :25:10.of the senior members of your force were cleared by the IPCC. Why

:25:11. > :25:17.haven't more senior officers being held responsible for what some

:25:18. > :25:21.people say are quite clear failings? A lot of people ask that question in

:25:22. > :25:25.South Yorkshire. It seems as if the senior leadership can get away with

:25:26. > :25:31.these things, but the more junior members of the force... These are

:25:32. > :25:36.difficult things to investigate. It takes resources. I don't know if too

:25:37. > :25:40.much time has now gone by. But there are people currently being

:25:41. > :25:44.investigated by the IPCC. I criticised the length of time that

:25:45. > :25:47.is taking. If people have done things that are wrong, the public

:25:48. > :25:54.should know about that, the victims should know. Some of those will be

:25:55. > :25:59.exonerated. They need to be cleared because that is hanging over them as

:26:00. > :26:00.well. It is a complex and difficult situation in South Yorkshire.

:26:01. > :26:03.Thank you all for joining smack. And if you have any concerns

:26:04. > :26:06.about what we've just covered, there's more information

:26:07. > :26:08.on the BBC Action Line. The number 0800 888 809 -

:26:09. > :26:11.calls are free and are open 24-hours a day, and there's a full list

:26:12. > :26:29.of support and organisations Still to come, social workers are

:26:30. > :26:32.warning of a worrying lack of Foster homes. We talk to people in the

:26:33. > :26:37.industry who say this is the worst we have seen in years. The first

:26:38. > :26:45.legal sale of rhino horn is due to be held in South Africa today. The

:26:46. > :26:47.seller claims it is the best way to conserve the species.

:26:48. > :26:50.Conservationists say it will push them towards extinction. We will

:26:51. > :26:56.talk to both sides of the argument. A Labour MP is calling for women

:26:57. > :26:58.only train carriages to avoid sexual harassment on public transport. We

:26:59. > :27:04.will talk to him and an agenda equality campaign.

:27:05. > :27:17.But first, the news. Police in Germany -- Birmingham have

:27:18. > :27:23.obtained landmark court injunctions to break-up gangs. 17 people have

:27:24. > :27:26.been served with a legal order banning them from certain parts of

:27:27. > :27:31.the city and mixing with one another.

:27:32. > :27:35.Princes William and Harry have described their bewilderment when

:27:36. > :27:40.they encountered grieving crowds on the day of their mother's funeral.

:27:41. > :27:44.Speaking to a BBC documentary marking 20 years since the death of

:27:45. > :27:47.Princess Diana, they say walking behind her cough and had been a

:27:48. > :27:50.family decision. Harry had previously said walking behind her

:27:51. > :27:55.coughing was something no child should be asked to do. This

:27:56. > :27:59.programme has learned a long-running investigation into a charity worker

:28:00. > :28:04.who helped expose the sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham is to be

:28:05. > :28:07.examined by the Local Government Ombudsman. Jane Senior has been

:28:08. > :28:12.investigated by Rotherham Council for a year after a number of

:28:13. > :28:15.complaints. She denies any wrongdoing and says it is a

:28:16. > :28:22.distraction from helping vulnerable young people. A powerful typhoon has

:28:23. > :28:26.made landfall in China, forcing thousands of people to evacuate

:28:27. > :28:31.their homes. Hundreds of flights have been cancelled and businesses

:28:32. > :28:35.forced to close. Winds near the centre of the storm were recorded at

:28:36. > :28:38.more than 120 miles per. That is a summary of the latest news. Join me

:28:39. > :28:40.at 11am. The Government is outlining how it

:28:41. > :28:43.wants to stop judges in European courts from being able to overrule

:28:44. > :28:46.the courts in the UK after Brexit. At the moment, it's possible

:28:47. > :28:49.for some cases that have gone through the British courts system

:28:50. > :28:52.to be ruled on in the Court of Justice of the European Union,

:28:53. > :29:00.which is based in Luxembourg. Adam Fleming has been looking

:29:01. > :29:07.at the work the courts do. The Court of Justice -

:29:08. > :29:15.that's where national courts can ask for EU laws to be clarified,

:29:16. > :29:17.and EU countries can get And the General Court,

:29:18. > :29:23.where decisions made by the European institutions can be

:29:24. > :29:25.challenged by countries, It means all sorts

:29:26. > :29:31.of stuff comes up. For example, today's cases

:29:32. > :29:36.include sharing airline passengers' details with Canada,

:29:37. > :29:37.which countries should process refugees, and something

:29:38. > :29:41.about a German cosmetics company. But remember, this is absolutely not

:29:42. > :29:47.the European Court of Human Rights. That is totally different,

:29:48. > :29:50.totally separate. All these guys - and they are mainly

:29:51. > :29:54.guys who served here in the past - and nowadays every member state,

:29:55. > :29:59.gets at least one judge here. This is every judgment

:30:00. > :30:32.from the 1950s until about 2010 To supporters of this

:30:33. > :30:35.place, it's amazing - To critics, these are examples

:30:36. > :30:41.of foreign judges interfering We have a stream of cases coming in,

:30:42. > :30:48.around about 700 cases every year. We have neither the time nor

:30:49. > :30:51.the inclination to sit around So where do we think

:30:52. > :31:02.this place will feature Well, the EU wants a big

:31:03. > :31:07.future role for the ECJ, particularly when it comes

:31:08. > :31:09.to the rights of EU The British government

:31:10. > :31:12.isn't quite so sure. Let's talk to Alfonso Valero

:31:13. > :31:25.from Nottingham Trent University, Allie Renison is from

:31:26. > :31:33.the Institute of Directors. And Peter Stockdale

:31:34. > :31:35.from the English Bridge Union, that's recently taken its case

:31:36. > :31:46.to the European Court of Justice Peter, let's talk about your

:31:47. > :31:52.experiences, first of all. Why did you feel you need to go to the ECJ?

:31:53. > :32:00.There is an EU directive that there should be no VAT charged on the

:32:01. > :32:04.entry fee of sport, but there is no clear definition of sport. When the

:32:05. > :32:08.government most recently included their definition, they included

:32:09. > :32:12.bridge. But HMRC were not applying it, so it was referred to the

:32:13. > :32:18.European court for a clearer definition on what it meant by

:32:19. > :32:23.sport. So it ruled in your favour though, so you are presumably

:32:24. > :32:27.delighted? We are, there has been a recommendation, but it still needs

:32:28. > :32:31.to be approved in October. Alfonzo, I want to bring you in because this

:32:32. > :32:34.is a hugely corrugated issue, and people at home might be scratching

:32:35. > :32:39.their heads thinking, why is this relevant to me and my everyday life?

:32:40. > :32:44.The role of the ECJ as such is quite relevant, insofar as it rolls on the

:32:45. > :32:49.right situation for example to consumer legislation, data

:32:50. > :32:52.protection, and things as maybe it would seem originally as remote as

:32:53. > :33:06.the composition of chemical products. The ECJ definitely has a

:33:07. > :33:11.significant impact. Ballet, what are you concerned with the changes that

:33:12. > :33:23.the government is likely to propose in lighter Brexit? I think the big

:33:24. > :33:29.question is what replaces it. Currently under the ECJ virtually

:33:30. > :33:33.anyone can challenge another entity under EU law and the concern is that

:33:34. > :33:36.if we look at some of the other models the government is potentially

:33:37. > :33:40.thinking about, they tend to deal with state to state dispute

:33:41. > :33:46.resolution, not necessarily affording the same ease of access

:33:47. > :33:48.and rights to pursue disputes. Of course any European citizens who

:33:49. > :33:52.remain hereafter Brexit will still be a will to use the court? Yes.

:33:53. > :33:57.They will still be to use the British court. There was some debate

:33:58. > :34:01.on the ECJ jurisdiction on citizen rights currently here going forward,

:34:02. > :34:05.whether or not the ECJ needs to have a rather that particular issue.

:34:06. > :34:08.Within the legal and academic community some people think that the

:34:09. > :34:13.EU has lightly overshot what it is asking for in that respect, but the

:34:14. > :34:17.wider question is who interprets the withdrawal agreement once we leave

:34:18. > :34:22.the EU, that is a much bigger question. Alphonso, do you see there

:34:23. > :34:25.could be any benefit to the government's proposals, the idea of

:34:26. > :34:32.getting rid of the ECJ playing a role in these everyday decisions?

:34:33. > :34:38.One benefit would be the fact that British legal courts tend to be a

:34:39. > :34:42.bit faster in their resolution. If you need to refer a question to the

:34:43. > :34:49.ECJ in Luxembourg where sometimes it is true there could be a delay of

:34:50. > :34:59.years in obtaining a decision. The other consideration is whether there

:35:00. > :35:03.has on the other hand a disadvantage for the UK citizens of the

:35:04. > :35:08.interpretation by the UK courts which may differ substantially from

:35:09. > :35:12.the ECJ. Peter, if you had not been able to go to the European Court of

:35:13. > :35:16.Justice, resume the blue this would have meant he would have this had to

:35:17. > :35:22.start paying VAT for bridge and it would cost your sport? We have been

:35:23. > :35:26.paying VAT, so hopefully going forward there will be no VAT charged

:35:27. > :35:32.on bridge activities, making it cheaper for everyone to take part,

:35:33. > :35:34.and hopefully we can make wider involvement in fridge through this

:35:35. > :35:42.reduction in costs. Thank you for joining us. -- in bridge. Still to

:35:43. > :35:46.come, the first legal sale of rhino horn is due to be held in South

:35:47. > :35:50.Africa today, but is at the right way to stop poaching? There is a

:35:51. > :35:55.warning from the UK social workers about a worrying number of foster

:35:56. > :35:59.homes, which are currently, I don't know why we are still on pictures of

:36:00. > :36:02.rhino horn, but hopefully we can get back to this.

:36:03. > :36:06.Current figures show there is a shortage of around 7,500 -

:36:07. > :36:09.and the British Association of Social Workers says this does not

:36:10. > :36:10.account for the complexity of matching children

:36:11. > :36:14.with an appropriate carer who suits their needs.

:36:15. > :36:20.Some staff within the industry have told this programme the availability

:36:21. > :36:24.of foster homes is the worst they've seen in years - particularly

:36:25. > :36:26.when working with teenagers, those with disabilities or siblings.

:36:27. > :36:29.In extreme cases they're even struggling to place babies.

:36:30. > :36:33.Charities are keen to stress that a child will always have a foster

:36:34. > :36:37.home, but it may not be the right home for them which means they may

:36:38. > :36:40.be frequently moved around which can be extremely distressing.

:36:41. > :36:42.Joining us now, we have two foster carers -

:36:43. > :36:53.And Blair Mortimer - who is also a social worker

:36:54. > :36:58.Wayne Reid - who is from British Association of Social Workers

:36:59. > :37:02.And - Chloe Cockette - who is from Become, a charity

:37:03. > :37:17.Thank you all for coming to talk to us today. Margaret, I want to start

:37:18. > :37:20.by speaking to you about your experiences as a foster carer,

:37:21. > :37:24.because some people may think this is hugely challenging, you could

:37:25. > :37:28.form a bond with this child and then they can leave you, which is

:37:29. > :37:34.heartbreaking, presumably? Yes, it can be heartbreaking. I started

:37:35. > :37:40.fostering eight years ago with an organisation called action for

:37:41. > :37:47.children. My experience of working with fostering, it has been quite

:37:48. > :37:51.rewarding. Obviously there are lots of challenges and issues surrounding

:37:52. > :37:57.the work that I do but it is something I have always wanted to

:37:58. > :38:04.do, and I'd took it on, I embraced it, knowing that I can offer a home

:38:05. > :38:08.to a young person that needs kind of guidance and love. Fanatics actually

:38:09. > :38:13.what you have done and it has been a huge success story for your foster

:38:14. > :38:19.daughter. Yes, it has done. I have a foster child who came to me at 13.

:38:20. > :38:26.She is now 18. She is now going on to university. Her case was very

:38:27. > :38:29.convex when she first came. But working with my supervisor, social

:38:30. > :38:34.workers and all the professionals involved with her care over the

:38:35. > :38:37.years, we've turned things around for her, and to be fair she has also

:38:38. > :38:45.really turn things around for herself. Being the environment with

:38:46. > :38:55.her friends and family helping to support me with his children, I hope

:38:56. > :38:58.and I think that I've provided a safe and fun environment for her,

:38:59. > :39:03.and she can go on to do better things for herself. Blair, hello, I

:39:04. > :39:09.had to guess who you were, I will bring you in on a moment, but Blair,

:39:10. > :39:12.you are also a foster carer. Have your experiences been equally

:39:13. > :39:17.positive? There must be some challenging times as a foster carer.

:39:18. > :39:20.Certainly there are challenges but I think overall, doing it over 90

:39:21. > :39:27.years now, overwhelmingly it has been positive. Even the challenges

:39:28. > :39:31.when you are able to look back at those, you can see how there is

:39:32. > :39:33.great learning in that, you can readjust and adjust the support that

:39:34. > :39:39.is around you and also work better with the services, social workers,

:39:40. > :39:43.the services for the young people. But overwhelmingly fostering for me

:39:44. > :39:50.has been very, very positive. Wayne, what do you think puts people off?

:39:51. > :39:54.There are lots of barriers. In terms of work, the image of foster carers,

:39:55. > :39:58.that can be avoided in terms of what the general public know about

:39:59. > :40:02.fostering, so people kind of make their own minds up. I think we need

:40:03. > :40:11.to promote more of a positive image about what the role entails. It can

:40:12. > :40:15.be very rewarding. Definitely. The support is vital for foster carers,

:40:16. > :40:19.they do an amazing job, and if we can provide that support the foster

:40:20. > :40:23.carers, and foster carers all of them felt supported, that will

:40:24. > :40:29.really help. What support do you get is a foster carer? The organisation

:40:30. > :40:35.I work for, action for children, there is a loss of support there for

:40:36. > :40:39.the foster carers. We have support group, professional training is

:40:40. > :40:46.about issues surrounding what we do. There is also friends and family who

:40:47. > :40:50.initially were a bit sceptical about me doing this job, because of the

:40:51. > :40:52.challenges and issues that comes with it, but now everyone has

:40:53. > :41:00.embraced it and they are very supportive. That helps. If I want to

:41:01. > :41:04.take a respite for myself, go on holiday or just have a night out,

:41:05. > :41:12.all of that, I have a good support network. I would agree with that but

:41:13. > :41:16.the key is to encourage people to bring around support for themselves

:41:17. > :41:19.as well. I work for Camden as a social worker and our ethos is about

:41:20. > :41:25.caring for our care workers, encouraging them to build around it.

:41:26. > :41:28.Providing support groups for them, and in camera during them to support

:41:29. > :41:32.each other as well. If they are without a placement for a period of

:41:33. > :41:36.time, looking at how they can support each other. And also I think

:41:37. > :41:40.one of the things that needs to happen as well is looking at birth

:41:41. > :41:44.children as well, and how agencies and local authorities can work with

:41:45. > :41:49.birth children and acknowledge the impact of fostering on them as well.

:41:50. > :41:52.I think that will help stabilising placement and encourage carers to

:41:53. > :42:00.continue caring for longer. Can you explain what happened for example if

:42:01. > :42:04.a child comes to you, how quickly do they leave you? What many people

:42:05. > :42:09.think is if I'm welcoming a child into our home, I am reading here,

:42:10. > :42:12.one foster carer said we have had our hearts broken several times when

:42:13. > :42:17.children and babies move on but we don't have any plans to stop. How

:42:18. > :42:23.much notice before a child would go to another home? Sorry to interrupt,

:42:24. > :42:26.fostering can be very weird, very predictable, short-term placements

:42:27. > :42:30.can become long-term and vice versa. A lot of that the pens around the

:42:31. > :42:34.children's circumstances themselves, they can change by quickly with very

:42:35. > :42:43.short notice. What I would say is that foster carers are prepared.

:42:44. > :42:46.They are given preparation training, support, as Margaret and Blair have

:42:47. > :42:51.alluded to. There are mechanisms already there to support them at

:42:52. > :42:58.that transition but ultimately it does tug at heartstrings when

:42:59. > :43:03.children move on. The way that you engage with young people come you

:43:04. > :43:06.make those connections. You have to. That is pretty much what we want

:43:07. > :43:11.from foster care, you have to be to support them with dealing with that

:43:12. > :43:15.also. Explain to people watching, Chloe, the difference that a foster

:43:16. > :43:21.home, a caring, supportive, wonderful foster home can make to a

:43:22. > :43:25.child? Specific examples. It gives children a childhood. A good foster

:43:26. > :43:29.home will prepare a child for adult life and give them the family

:43:30. > :43:32.support and help them to build relationships. These are children

:43:33. > :43:36.who have been brought into care because they have had a tough time

:43:37. > :43:40.and they deserve the very best, and the very burst -- very best foster

:43:41. > :43:46.carers will provide them with love and care and with support they will

:43:47. > :43:49.enable them to stabilise, enable them to lend budgeting skills,

:43:50. > :43:53.enable them to make friends and play and do the things we would want for

:43:54. > :43:59.our own children. That is the really important thing, that actually

:44:00. > :44:03.foster care enables children to be kids, and to recover for the trauma

:44:04. > :44:09.they have experienced before coming into care. Some people watching this

:44:10. > :44:12.may see they have seen reports on the news that certain ethnicities

:44:13. > :44:17.have not been able to adopt, what is it like in fostering, are there

:44:18. > :44:23.restrictions on ethnicity, race, religion, having a full-time job for

:44:24. > :44:28.example? Some of that is provide a specific. Depending whether you

:44:29. > :44:31.foster for a private agency or a voluntary agency, there may be

:44:32. > :44:34.different requirements they have. There are no legal requirements

:44:35. > :44:43.about that but there may be provider requirements. Anybody can foster

:44:44. > :44:53.now. As long as you are determined to do it. Single people. Married

:44:54. > :44:57.couples. So there are no restrictions, you can be a single

:44:58. > :45:01.person who has never had a child? Yes. Wie the important thing is

:45:02. > :45:05.fostering is not something that comes to be both, it grows within

:45:06. > :45:08.people. My suggestion would be is if anyone sitting at home has ever

:45:09. > :45:13.wanted to foster, you have to get on the phone to your local authority.

:45:14. > :45:17.Wherever your local authority is, phone in, meet with the team, go to

:45:18. > :45:21.an information session, because actually there is very, very little

:45:22. > :45:25.restriction in who can foster. The challenge, really, is can you make

:45:26. > :45:29.yourself available, the time needed, and build the support around? Start

:45:30. > :45:32.talking to people around you about what your intentions are, and you

:45:33. > :45:36.will actually find you will be really supported. Many people say I

:45:37. > :45:40.would love to foster, I just am not in a position to do that, but with a

:45:41. > :45:44.future weeks and maybe just ending a few months or maybe a year just

:45:45. > :45:45.looking at work and other things, you put yourself into a position

:45:46. > :45:57.where you then can foster. The it is a professional role. Most

:45:58. > :46:00.people think it is a case of caring for a child. But it is more than

:46:01. > :46:05.that. You are seen as a professional. And you get paid, of

:46:06. > :46:11.course. That can be an issue for some people perhaps if they don't

:46:12. > :46:14.have placements. Alluding to what Blair has been saying, that can be

:46:15. > :46:17.an issue potentially if they have bills to pay etc and they don't have

:46:18. > :46:25.a child emplacement. There is a balance. The pay is an enabler. It

:46:26. > :46:31.enables us to provide for the children. That is sometimes an

:46:32. > :46:36.issue. What are we looking at, a couple of hundred quid a week? It

:46:37. > :46:45.varies. Depends on the needs of the child. I could talk to promote -- so

:46:46. > :46:47.much longer but I'm being told I have to move on. Thank you for

:46:48. > :46:48.coming in to speak to us. Earlier this month, a 17-year-old

:46:49. > :46:50.girl was assaulted by two different men on a train journey

:46:51. > :46:53.between Newquay and Plymouth. It's part of a rising trend

:46:54. > :46:55.of violence against women That has led the Labour

:46:56. > :46:59.frontbencher, Chris Williamson, to call for women-only train

:47:00. > :47:04.carriages. He said these could offer

:47:05. > :47:07.a "safe space for women". But not everyone thinks this

:47:08. > :47:15.is the right solution. To discuss this, Chris Williamson

:47:16. > :47:22.joins me from Derby. Also we are joined by Laura Bates from everyday

:47:23. > :47:28.sexism. She joins us from north London. Thank you to both of you.

:47:29. > :47:35.Chris, tell us more about these proposals? Live called for is a

:47:36. > :47:39.consultation on the suggestion. -- all I have called for. It is

:47:40. > :47:42.something that is utilised in different countries around the

:47:43. > :47:49.world. We have seen a 150% increase in assaults on women on trains in

:47:50. > :47:53.five years. You mentioned a case in the introduction. It seems to me it

:47:54. > :47:58.is worth considering, consulting on it. But more importantly, we need is

:47:59. > :48:05.to have more guards on trains, better security. This is what the

:48:06. > :48:09.industrial dispute is about on Southern trains. Southern trains are

:48:10. > :48:14.looking to introduce driver only trains. That would be a retrograde

:48:15. > :48:19.step. We need better security, more guards. This might be an additional

:48:20. > :48:22.idea that is worth exploring. I'm not saying it should be done. It

:48:23. > :48:28.will be down to whether there is support for it. If there is support

:48:29. > :48:31.for it, providing an additional carriers to provide that safe space

:48:32. > :48:36.for people if they wanted it, is worth looking at. Laura? I really

:48:37. > :48:41.understand the suggestion and I think it's very well-meaning. For

:48:42. > :48:45.immediate risks sending a damaging message, which is if we segregate

:48:46. > :48:51.women, if we curtail their movements, constrain their freedom,

:48:52. > :48:55.in response to sexual violence, we are sending the message that it is

:48:56. > :48:58.inevitable, that men will always harass and assault women. And the

:48:59. > :49:05.only answer is to constrain women's movements, instead of tackling the

:49:06. > :49:08.problem aggressively by making sure that the perpetrators are brought to

:49:09. > :49:13.justice. The rise we are seeing in the reported number of sexual

:49:14. > :49:17.offences corresponds with a period of good work being done by the

:49:18. > :49:20.British Transport Police and Transport for London, in which they

:49:21. > :49:24.are focused on tackling perpetrators, on increasing

:49:25. > :49:29.plainclothes officers on days of action and patrols. And on

:49:30. > :49:33.increasing victim confidence in reporting. While those figures show

:49:34. > :49:39.there is a massive problem, a huge issue that needs to be tackled, that

:49:40. > :49:43.rise doesn't necessarily mean the problem is increasing exponentially.

:49:44. > :49:49.It actually shows more people feel they are able to come forward

:49:50. > :49:53.because they are seeing this tackled and trained officers are taking the

:49:54. > :49:58.problem seriously. Laura, couldn't you may do both, tackle the problem

:49:59. > :50:01.and also have these women only carriages? Certainly toggling from

:50:02. > :50:07.personal experience, I'm sure women who have -- watching this have got

:50:08. > :50:12.on a train late at night, maybe a Friday night, lots of people that

:50:13. > :50:14.had drinks and men have been inappropriate, got too close, made

:50:15. > :50:19.you feel uncomfortable. Wouldn't it just be good even if it was just in

:50:20. > :50:25.the evenings to say, women can sit in here, they don't have to worry? I

:50:26. > :50:28.do understand that point of view. That is a sticking plaster rather

:50:29. > :50:32.than a solution. It has to be about the sending a clear message that

:50:33. > :50:35.this issue, which is already so normalised, could be further

:50:36. > :50:39.normalised by the idea that women should simply go somewhere else

:50:40. > :50:43.because it will always happen. It is so important that we tackle this

:50:44. > :50:48.issue in the same way we tackle other forms of abuse on transport.

:50:49. > :50:53.In the same way people are experiencing racist abuse,

:50:54. > :50:56.Islamophobia racist abuse. Segregation is not the answer. It

:50:57. > :51:03.risks sending in normalising message, I think. As someone who has

:51:04. > :51:07.been assaulted on public transport, the idea that if that happened when

:51:08. > :51:10.I didn't have and be in a women only carriage but that carriage was

:51:11. > :51:15.available, could cause further complications. How do we treat

:51:16. > :51:20.someone assaulted in that situation? I want to get Chris Williamson's

:51:21. > :51:24.response. Lots of people getting in touch. Jonathan said, how could

:51:25. > :51:31.possibly be implemented in force as men and women walk to a coach to

:51:32. > :51:38.find a seat? It's a step backwards, says Gary. Joy said, we had these

:51:39. > :51:42.back in the 1960s. I was a schoolgirl who travelled to school

:51:43. > :51:48.by train. I Even remember the number of times I was assaulted or men

:51:49. > :51:52.exposed themselves. We dealt with it. It's not right or normal mob of

:51:53. > :52:03.stilettos and elbows did come in useful. As I've already said, we

:52:04. > :52:07.need to push for behaviour change, and that starting schools. We need

:52:08. > :52:10.to get into a position where everybody can travel on public

:52:11. > :52:17.transport in complete safety. That requires greater investment in more

:52:18. > :52:22.security, more guards on trains. This idea is one that is used in

:52:23. > :52:27.other parts of the world. And it does merit, I think, consultation.

:52:28. > :52:31.And it might be, judging by the calls that you have had, and indeed

:52:32. > :52:36.the discussion that is taking place on social media, they seem to be

:52:37. > :52:40.more people saying it is the wrong way to go. I'm fine with that. I'm

:52:41. > :52:46.not saying we should go down this road. I'm really suggesting we

:52:47. > :52:49.consult on it. We need to be mindful of the fact we have seen a huge

:52:50. > :52:53.increase in attacks on women on trains and we need to tackle that.

:52:54. > :53:01.And if this debate can result in a move away from taking security away

:53:02. > :53:05.from stations and the suggestion that we don't need guards on trains,

:53:06. > :53:05.then it will have served a useful purpose.

:53:06. > :53:08.Thank you both. A controversial auction

:53:09. > :53:10.of rhino horns takes place The event is an attempt to reduce

:53:11. > :53:15.poaching because the horns have apparently been safely stripped

:53:16. > :53:17.by a vet to prevent gunmen Unlike elephant tusks,

:53:18. > :53:24.the horns of a rhinoceros grow back The auction has been given

:53:25. > :53:29.the go-ahead following a ruling by South Africa's constitutional

:53:30. > :53:31.court which allowed for domestic trade of rhino horns,

:53:32. > :53:40.despite the global ban. John Hume is the South African game

:53:41. > :53:44.keeper who's holding the auction. He says the only reason to hold

:53:45. > :53:47.the auction was because the cost of keeping rhinos -

:53:48. > :53:49.and protecting them There is only one way that

:53:50. > :53:58.I will pay for this cost. That is to sell my rhino horn

:53:59. > :54:01.and to use that money So to me, the people

:54:02. > :54:07.who are stopping me from selling my rhino horn and

:54:08. > :54:10.protecting my rhino, may as well be joined with the poachers,

:54:11. > :54:16.because they will kill my rhino. Let's speak to two people

:54:17. > :54:18.who are on opposite ends Mark Jones is vet and also

:54:19. > :54:22.an associate director As does Professor Douglas McMillan,

:54:23. > :54:29.who's a professor of Conservation and Applied Resource Economics

:54:30. > :54:43.at the University of Kent. Mark, do you think this is sending

:54:44. > :54:48.out the right message about rhino worn? Good morning. No. We think

:54:49. > :54:55.this is a disastrous step for rhinos. Rhinos are struggling. There

:54:56. > :55:01.are less than 30,000 remaining in parts -- across the world. They are

:55:02. > :55:05.being seriously threatened by poaching further horns. More than

:55:06. > :55:11.6000 have been virtually slaughtered by poachers in South Africa in less

:55:12. > :55:18.than a decade. Rhino poaching is on the rise in other countries such as

:55:19. > :55:21.Namibia and Zimbabwe. We don't believe that legalising the trade in

:55:22. > :55:26.Rhino horn is any kind of answer to this problem. Let's here from

:55:27. > :55:35.Professor McMillan. He clearly does think this is the right way forward.

:55:36. > :55:45.Speak to mark. I just feel you made a very good case for why the

:55:46. > :55:52.poaching ban is not working. It is leading the -- leading to the deaths

:55:53. > :55:56.of many rhinos and people. The price of right -- rhino horn would fall.

:55:57. > :56:00.That means the incentives to ports would decline. Furthermore, I think

:56:01. > :56:06.demand for a Rhino worn may well fall as well. In Vietnam, the actual

:56:07. > :56:12.fact it is illegal is an attraction to consumers. This is from the

:56:13. > :56:18.research we have done. A legal trade will solve the problem long-term.

:56:19. > :56:24.Mark, you are shaking your head. Well, previous attempts to deal with

:56:25. > :56:28.wildlife poaching crises by opening up legal trade have failed

:56:29. > :56:35.miserably. The most recent one is the sale of elephant ivory. That has

:56:36. > :56:39.been followed by some of the worst declines in elephant populations

:56:40. > :56:44.ever seen, with more than 150,000 African elephants killed by poachers

:56:45. > :56:48.since 2012. There is no reason to think that rhinos will fare any

:56:49. > :56:51.better if we legitimise trade. We have a really poor understanding of

:56:52. > :56:58.the nature of the man for a Rhino horn in Asia. Legalising markets

:56:59. > :57:01.sends mixed messages to consumers, undermining the public education

:57:02. > :57:05.programmes aimed at preventing people are persuading people not to

:57:06. > :57:12.buy horn. Professor McMillan, is the difference for you the fact that

:57:13. > :57:15.with rhinos, if you cut of the horn correctly, it grows back, therefore

:57:16. > :57:19.you are not killing the animal, you are keeping the trade going the the

:57:20. > :57:23.Animal is still alive? Absolutely. The legal trade will save Rhino

:57:24. > :57:34.lives and save them from horrible deaths. You can say we need to end

:57:35. > :57:38.demand but that is much more difficult to do than to say. Our

:57:39. > :57:45.evidence suggests, and we have just done work in Vietnam with Rhino worn

:57:46. > :57:54.users, they would prefer to buy, to pay more for horn, removed humanely

:57:55. > :57:59.from live Rhino, than they would illegal poached rhino horn. That is

:58:00. > :58:03.an important observation. They won the support to look after rhinos but

:58:04. > :58:05.to have the rhino horn. Fascinating. Thank you for speaking to us.

:58:06. > :58:13.If you want to get in touch, the hash tag is Victoria life.

:58:14. > :58:35.The next batch of celebs are about to reach boiling point.

:58:36. > :58:38.I don't know how people do this, like, eight hours a day,