0:00:12 > 0:00:14Hello it's Wednesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Tina Daheley
0:00:14 > 0:00:15in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18Cyber stalking - which can be anything from sending
0:00:18 > 0:00:20repeated unwanted texts, to leaving nasty messages on social
0:00:20 > 0:00:22media - is a growing problem, but victims and experts complain
0:00:22 > 0:00:24it's not always taken seriously by police,
0:00:24 > 0:00:25and conviction rates are low.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27Could a new approach and app being trialled
0:00:27 > 0:00:35by Bedfordshire Police change that?
0:00:35 > 0:00:38The Royal Bank of Scotland has already been slammed
0:00:38 > 0:00:40by the Financial Conduct Authority over it handled of thousands
0:00:40 > 0:00:41of its business customers.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44Now a group of small business owners tell this programme they have
0:00:44 > 0:00:46instructed lawyers to bring criminal proceedings against RBS -
0:00:46 > 0:00:48alleging the bank defrauded them and caused their businesses
0:00:48 > 0:00:52to fail.
0:00:52 > 0:00:54And should we treat women who kill their violent partners
0:00:54 > 0:00:55differently to other killers?
0:00:55 > 0:00:58We speak to the campaigners who are calling for a review of how
0:00:58 > 0:01:07women who murder after suffering domestic abuse are judged.
0:01:08 > 0:01:09Hello.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Also later in the programme we will be talking to the producer
0:01:15 > 0:01:18behind some of cinema's most iconic movies - including Blade
0:01:18 > 0:01:20Runner, The Italian Job and The Deer Hunter -
0:01:20 > 0:01:22about his career, the latest Blade Runner film and
0:01:22 > 0:01:24the culture in Hollywood.
0:01:24 > 0:01:29Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -
0:01:29 > 0:01:32use the hashtag #VictoriaLive and if you text, you will be charged
0:01:32 > 0:01:34at the standard network rate.
0:01:34 > 0:01:35Our top story today,
0:01:35 > 0:01:37an inquiry into e-cigarettes has been announced by MPs,
0:01:37 > 0:01:42amid concerns there are significant gaps in what is known about them.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44Everything from their impact on human health to how
0:01:44 > 0:01:47their consumption affects the NHS and economy will be examined.
0:01:47 > 0:01:51Our health correspondent, Nick Triggle, reports.
0:01:51 > 0:01:57The popularity of e-cigarettes has soared in recent years.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00Nearly 3 million people in the UK now use them,
0:02:00 > 0:02:02according to the Office for National Statistics -
0:02:02 > 0:02:04a fourfold increase since 2012.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07This year they were even used in the annual Stoptober
0:02:07 > 0:02:09campaign for the first time.
0:02:09 > 0:02:14Despite this, they are not officially prescribed by the NHS.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16Advisory body Nice say patients should be told there is
0:02:16 > 0:02:19currently little evidence on the long-term benefits or harms of
0:02:19 > 0:02:23these products.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26The House of Commons Science and Technology Committee
0:02:26 > 0:02:29say there is a lack of clear guidelines about their use and it is
0:02:29 > 0:02:32causing confusion.
0:02:32 > 0:02:37It has now announced it is launching its own enquiry.
0:02:37 > 0:02:39We need to understand the long-term implications of a far
0:02:39 > 0:02:42greater number of people using e-cigarettes.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44It's great news that people are stopping smoking and
0:02:44 > 0:02:46shifting to e-cigarettes, but we need to understand
0:02:46 > 0:02:49more about the health consequences.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52The cross-party group of MPs has asked anyone who wants to
0:02:52 > 0:02:55submit written evidence to make sure it reaches the committee by the 8th
0:02:55 > 0:03:02of December.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11And we'll be speaking to Norman Lamb, chair
0:03:11 > 0:03:14of the committee launching this inquiry, later in the programme.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18Now a summary of the rest of the news.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21More than half of all British women have suffered sexual harassment
0:03:21 > 0:03:23at work or their place of study, according to a survey
0:03:23 > 0:03:24by BBC Radio 5 Live.
0:03:24 > 0:03:27It found most of the women who'd experienced inappropriate
0:03:27 > 0:03:30behaviour didn't report it.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32The survey of 2,000 adults also found a fifth of men have
0:03:32 > 0:03:41been sexually harassed, as Adina Campbell reports.
0:03:41 > 0:03:43Sarah Killcoyne has seen and been on the receiving end
0:03:43 > 0:03:44of sexual harassment.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46Her personal experiences started at school.
0:03:46 > 0:03:47A high school teacher, when I was 17,
0:03:47 > 0:03:52who assaulted me. And everybody knew.
0:03:52 > 0:03:57He later married a student just a year under me.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Sarah's is just one person's story.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02We heard from men and women who experienced all kinds of
0:04:02 > 0:04:06different harassments.
0:04:06 > 0:04:07More than half of women have experienced
0:04:07 > 0:04:11sexual harassment at work or in a place of study,
0:04:11 > 0:04:16according to a survey for BBC Five Live.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19Around two thirds of men and women who had been harassed say they
0:04:19 > 0:04:20didn't report it to anyone.
0:04:20 > 0:04:22And more women than men said they were
0:04:22 > 0:04:26targeted by a boss or senior manager.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29In some cases there are blurred lines when it comes to
0:04:29 > 0:04:31sexual harassment.
0:04:31 > 0:04:33It can be anything from assault to unwanted
0:04:33 > 0:04:36obscene comments.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39It has led to a big online social media campaign
0:04:39 > 0:04:41using the hash tag #metoo.
0:04:41 > 0:04:47It dates back more than a decade.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49This is about individuals who are survivors
0:04:49 > 0:04:51of sexual violence, but it is also about a larger conversation about
0:04:51 > 0:04:53the systems in place.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56The survey for 5 Live also found one in ten women who had
0:04:56 > 0:05:06been harassed left their job or place of study.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10An electrician from Stirling who was facing three months
0:05:10 > 0:05:12in prison in Dubai for public indecency has spoken of his relief
0:05:12 > 0:05:14at returning home to the UK.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16Jamie Harron was sentenced for touching a man's
0:05:16 > 0:05:18hip in a crowded bar, but freed after Dubai's
0:05:18 > 0:05:19ruler intervened.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21Catriona Renton reports.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24Back into the arms of his family.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28Jamie Harron's ordeal is finally over.
0:05:28 > 0:05:30He arrived in Scotland to questions from waiting media.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33His reaction to being home?
0:05:33 > 0:05:35Very good. Very happy to be home.
0:05:35 > 0:05:36It's been a shambles from the word go.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38No organisation or nothing.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41I kept positive all the way through it, to be honest.
0:05:41 > 0:05:47Because I still couldn't believe it had actually happened,
0:05:47 > 0:05:52for what it was that had actually gone on, even now when I'm
0:05:52 > 0:05:54home, I still can't believe it was three and a half
0:05:54 > 0:05:55months, four months.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58Jamie Harron had been on a two day stopover in Dubai in July.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02He said he had brushed against a man's hip in a crowded bar
0:06:02 > 0:06:04as he tried to steady himself to avoid spilling his drink.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06Mr Harron was also accused of drinking alcohol
0:06:06 > 0:06:08and making a rude gesture towards the businessman
0:06:08 > 0:06:09who made the complaint.
0:06:09 > 0:06:10Although the complaint was withdrawn, prosecutors
0:06:10 > 0:06:11continued with the case.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15On Sunday he was sentenced to three months in prison.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17A day later, though, following an intervention
0:06:17 > 0:06:21from the country's ruler, he was exonerated.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24He says he's lost his job as an electrician in Afghanistan
0:06:24 > 0:06:27and said he has now spent all his savings on legal
0:06:27 > 0:06:28fees and expenses.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31I had a lot of savings because I had done six months
0:06:31 > 0:06:32in Afghanistan before that.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34So it was £30,000?
0:06:34 > 0:06:37Everything I've got now is away.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40But I just need to move on, move forward from it.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43He told reporters he decided the next few days whether he would
0:06:43 > 0:06:45sue the man who made the complaint.
0:06:45 > 0:06:54But for now, with a cuddle from his mum, it's time to go home.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58The Brexit Secretary David Davis will face scrutiny from MPs shortly.
0:06:58 > 0:07:00Mr Davis will be questioned about developments in the European Union
0:07:00 > 0:07:03divorce talks amid claims he has held up progress
0:07:03 > 0:07:07on crucial exit laws.
0:07:07 > 0:07:12Follows concerns from EU leaders that there has not been enough
0:07:12 > 0:07:15movement to proceed to the next stage of talks. We will be live in
0:07:15 > 0:07:18the Commons when we will listen to David Davis taking questions from
0:07:18 > 0:07:24the Brexit Committee in a few minutes.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26A second US Republican Senator has delivered an attack on President
0:07:26 > 0:07:34Trump, accusing him of damaging US politics. Following Bob Corker, Jeff
0:07:34 > 0:07:39Flake criticised his behaviour and said he would not seek reselection.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43We must never meekly accept the daily sundering of our country,
0:07:43 > 0:07:44the personal attacks, the threats against
0:07:44 > 0:07:46principles, freedoms and institutions, the flagrant disregard
0:07:46 > 0:07:48for truth and decency, the reckless provocations, most often
0:07:48 > 0:07:54for the pettiest and most personal reasons.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05All new and refurbished schools in the UK should be
0:08:05 > 0:08:07fitted with sprinklers, fire chiefs have told the BBC.
0:08:07 > 0:08:09Currently, sprinklers are mandatory in new school buildings
0:08:09 > 0:08:11in Scotland and Wales, but not in England
0:08:11 > 0:08:12and Northern Ireland.
0:08:12 > 0:08:14Graham Satchell reports.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18Fire at Rift House Primary School in Hartlepool.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21It happened on a Sunday evening last May.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24I just saw smoke and then when I looked over my back garden
0:08:24 > 0:08:27fence, it was just fire.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31I think I was terrified.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35There are around 700 school fires a year in England.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38This one completely destroyed the nursing building.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40Like the vast majority of schools, 95%, there was no
0:08:40 > 0:08:44sprinkler system here.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46Fitting sprinklers in new and refurbished schools is now
0:08:46 > 0:08:48mandatory in Scotland and Wales, not so in England
0:08:48 > 0:08:52and Northern Ireland.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54Last year, the Department for Education in England consulted
0:08:54 > 0:08:56on new draft guidance.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58It said, "Building regulations don't require the installation
0:08:58 > 0:09:00of sprinklers so the guidance would no longer include
0:09:00 > 0:09:03an expectation that most new school buildings will be fitted with them".
0:09:03 > 0:09:08Do you think Grenfell has changed everything?
0:09:08 > 0:09:09Absolutely.
0:09:09 > 0:09:15I think it will change everything and quite rightly so.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17Dany Cotton led the Fire Service response at Grenfell Tower.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20She says she was appalled when the draft guidance
0:09:20 > 0:09:21came out last year.
0:09:21 > 0:09:22I thought it was outrageous.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25I just thought how can we play with children's lives like that?
0:09:25 > 0:09:27I just do not understand why it wouldn't be made compulsory,
0:09:27 > 0:09:30and made a requirement to fit sprinklers in schools at a new-build
0:09:30 > 0:09:34stage and what I don't want to see is a very large school fire to be
0:09:34 > 0:09:36the thing that brings about that change.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39In the days following the fire at Grenfell Tower, the Government's
0:09:39 > 0:09:40draft guidance was withdrawn.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43So the current guidance says this, "All new schools should have fire
0:09:43 > 0:09:49sprinklers installed, except in a few low risk schools".
0:09:49 > 0:09:51And yet, figures from the Government's own schools
0:09:51 > 0:09:53building programme show that of the 260 schools built since 2014,
0:09:53 > 0:10:00only 74 have sprinklers, that's 28%.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02Typically we don't always fit sprinklers in schools
0:10:02 > 0:10:04because there are other ways of making sure that
0:10:04 > 0:10:08schools are fire safe.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11Andrew works for a construction company that builds new schools
0:10:11 > 0:10:16like this just finished library in London.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19With budgets tight, he says schools can be designed to be low fire
0:10:19 > 0:10:22risk with exit routes, fire doors and re-enforced walls.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25I think if there was more money involved in school buildings I'd be
0:10:25 > 0:10:27looking at the need for new school places around the country,
0:10:27 > 0:10:30the bits of the school estate which are in really poor condition
0:10:30 > 0:10:35rather than that sprinklers was the first call.
0:10:35 > 0:10:40Pupils are safe in their schools today.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43Back in Hartlepool, the destroyed building has been cleared and plans
0:10:43 > 0:10:45are being made for its replacement.
0:10:45 > 0:10:49When this building is rebuilt, will it be fitted with sprinklers?
0:10:49 > 0:10:51Having seen what fires can actually do to a school,
0:10:51 > 0:10:55without a shadow of a doubt it would be something that I would be
0:10:55 > 0:10:59considering for any future building work on a school site.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02In a statement the Department for Education in England told us,
0:11:02 > 0:11:05"The safety of children is our priority and where a risk
0:11:05 > 0:11:09assessment recommends sprinklers they must be installed".
0:11:09 > 0:11:11Fire chiefs say that's not good enough and fitting sprinklers
0:11:11 > 0:11:17in new schools should now be mandatory in all parts of the UK.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26The social media giant Twitter has announced new rules about how it
0:11:26 > 0:11:28displays political adverts.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30The move follows claims that the platform was used
0:11:30 > 0:11:32to try to influence last year's US presidential election.
0:11:32 > 0:11:34Twitter's ads will now clearly show who funded them,
0:11:34 > 0:11:38how much was spent and which users are being targeted.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Lloyds Banking Group has seen its pre-tax profits more
0:11:41 > 0:11:45than double in the three months to September.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53The bank returned to private ownership in May, nine years after
0:11:53 > 0:11:56it was bailed out by the government at the height of the financial
0:11:56 > 0:11:57crisis.
0:11:57 > 0:11:59The Chinese President Xi Jinping has revealed his new senior
0:11:59 > 0:12:01leadership committee.
0:12:01 > 0:12:03The five new appointments were made to the Politburo Standing Committee,
0:12:03 > 0:12:04China's most powerful body.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06The president has broken with tradition by not including
0:12:06 > 0:12:09an obvious successor, which has raised questions over how
0:12:09 > 0:12:17long Mr Xi intends to rule.
0:12:17 > 0:12:25That is a summary of the latest news. More at 9:30am. Coming up,
0:12:25 > 0:12:31could a new approach change how cyberstalking is dealt with? Do get
0:12:31 > 0:12:33in touch throughout the morning.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36Use the hashtag #VictoriaLive and if you text, you will be charged
0:12:36 > 0:12:38at the standard network rate.
0:12:38 > 0:12:39Let's get some sport.
0:12:39 > 0:12:43Olly Foster is with us this morning.
0:12:43 > 0:12:44Lots of football last night, Olly.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47A couple of scares for the big clubs and it doesn't get any
0:12:47 > 0:12:50better for Crystal Palace?
0:12:50 > 0:12:54It doesn't. They are bottom of the Premier League. We had six League
0:12:54 > 0:12:58Cup matches last night. Fair to say that it is bottom of most clubs
0:12:58 > 0:13:01lists of priorities when it comes to looking at the whole season. Alice
0:13:01 > 0:13:06have bigger fish to fry. They were up against the Championship side
0:13:06 > 0:13:10Bristol city. They lost 4-1. They took the lead as well. It is easy to
0:13:10 > 0:13:13gauge how serious the clubs take this competition by looking at how
0:13:13 > 0:13:19many changes they make from their last match in the league. Palace
0:13:19 > 0:13:24made nine. 12 teams were playing last night. We added up all of the
0:13:24 > 0:13:29changes and 99, would you believe? Do the maths, just over eight from
0:13:29 > 0:13:34each team ahead of the League Cup matches. Arsenal changed their
0:13:34 > 0:13:38entire team against Norwich. They actually won. It only came after
0:13:38 > 0:13:42extra time when they needed their teenager to bail them out. He got
0:13:42 > 0:13:45his first goals for the club, the equaliser in the last couple of
0:13:45 > 0:13:50minutes to take it to extra time and then the winner. There were wins for
0:13:50 > 0:13:52Bournemouth and Leicester, a couple of other Premier League teams going
0:13:52 > 0:13:57through. Manchester United, remember, they are the League Cup
0:13:57 > 0:13:59winners from last season. Jesse Lingard scored in the Wembley final
0:13:59 > 0:14:03and he scored a couple last night at the liberty stadium as they beat
0:14:03 > 0:14:07Swansea to move into the quarterfinals. It is the first time
0:14:07 > 0:14:11he has scored twice in a match, which I found surprising. Jose
0:14:11 > 0:14:16Mourinho's 400th game in English football as well. 13 years after he
0:14:16 > 0:14:21started making waves at Chelsea. Also last night, leaders Manchester
0:14:21 > 0:14:27City needed penalties to get past the Championship leaders Wolves.
0:14:27 > 0:14:33City through, but the manager was not happy?No, talking about how
0:14:33 > 0:14:37much managers like this competition, obviously they are at the top of the
0:14:37 > 0:14:40Premier League, going great guns in Europe as well. In the last round,
0:14:40 > 0:14:46when they enter the condition, the called the cup a waste of energy.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49You can get into the Europa League by winning it, but Manchester City
0:14:49 > 0:14:53will probably get into the Champions League anyway, so he let slip what
0:14:53 > 0:14:56he thought about it. He had something curious to say, yes, they
0:14:56 > 0:15:02are through, but why was he not happy? The ball. It is not the ball
0:15:02 > 0:15:07Premier League teams use, because it is the League Cup, it is the one the
0:15:07 > 0:15:10Championship, League 1 and League 2 teams use. Not around enough?
0:15:10 > 0:15:15Apparently it was too light and did all sorts of things in the air. Here
0:15:15 > 0:15:21he is.It is unacceptable to play with the ball. It is not a serious
0:15:21 > 0:15:24ball for a professional game. It is not acceptable for the high level of
0:15:24 > 0:15:28the competition.The players were complaining, they were talking
0:15:28 > 0:15:34about?The players complained, they didn't play football. Unfortunately
0:15:34 > 0:15:38for you, because it was magnificent players. I assure you, all of them
0:15:38 > 0:15:45say, what is that?
0:15:45 > 0:15:49What is that? It is a ball, Pep Guardiola. They will have to play
0:15:49 > 0:15:56with it again in the next round. Interesting, so, a light ball.
0:15:56 > 0:16:01Staying with football, a really nice story has emerged from last weekend
0:16:01 > 0:16:06to do with Huddersfield?Yes, Huddersfield, newly promoted, they
0:16:06 > 0:16:11beat the mighty Manchester United, Jose Mourinho's first defeat of the
0:16:11 > 0:16:19season, 2-1 to them. Adam Banner who is five went to the match with his
0:16:19 > 0:16:25dad, he found £5 on the floor, his dad said to him, don't keep what is
0:16:25 > 0:16:31not ours so he wrote a letter to one of the club directors and Aaron Moy
0:16:31 > 0:16:36was one of the scorers and he said he wanted him to keep the £5 because
0:16:36 > 0:16:42he played very well and scored. Apparently Aaron Moy now wants to
0:16:42 > 0:16:46meet the little boy and say thank you, probably give him the fiver
0:16:46 > 0:16:51back, I would have thought. The most remarkable thing, Tina, who write
0:16:51 > 0:16:56letters these days? I've never seen anything like it.That's a lovely
0:16:56 > 0:17:02story. Ollie, thank you very much.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05In the next half hour, the Brexit Secretary will sit down
0:17:05 > 0:17:07in front of senior MPs and face questions about progress
0:17:07 > 0:17:08in negotiations with the EU.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11David Davies is giving evidence to the Brexit committee -
0:17:11 > 0:17:13amid complaints from EU leaders that there simply isn't enough
0:17:13 > 0:17:16forward motion for them to move on to trade talks.
0:17:16 > 0:17:17Our political correspondent Ben Wright is in
0:17:17 > 0:17:18Westminster for us now.
0:17:18 > 0:17:25What can we expect to happen today? For bands of Brexit related select
0:17:25 > 0:17:30committees, today is Christmas. First we have David Davis and then
0:17:30 > 0:17:34we have kissed armour being quizzed later on. There will then be a
0:17:34 > 0:17:38hearing on customs relations after Brexit this afternoon as well. It
0:17:38 > 0:17:42starts with David Davis and the key question is, he needs to make the
0:17:42 > 0:17:48next move to move the deadlocked breakfast -- Brexit talks on?
0:17:48 > 0:17:51Yesterday, Donald Tusk said it was all down to the UK to move this
0:17:51 > 0:17:56forward. There is obviously a big stopping point about money. The EU
0:17:56 > 0:17:59wants the UK to be much clearer about the amount of money they are
0:17:59 > 0:18:03prepared to put on the table before they will discuss trade. I imagine
0:18:03 > 0:18:08that will be one of the key issues David Davis will be grilled by MPs.
0:18:08 > 0:18:13I think he is speaking now.We would seek to maintain them. I think I
0:18:13 > 0:18:18told you last time there have already been a considerable number
0:18:18 > 0:18:23of discussions with them, the existing ones, to look at
0:18:23 > 0:18:28grandfathering anyway, in any event. All the big ones, I think, have
0:18:28 > 0:18:32said, and this is second down from Liam Fox, of course, is that they
0:18:32 > 0:18:36are interested in doing that. Some want to improve them but that will
0:18:36 > 0:18:42take time. There are also the comments form by Minister Shinzo Abe
0:18:42 > 0:18:45about the future economic partnership with Japan. They want
0:18:45 > 0:18:50that to continue with us and from Justin Trudeau, the Canadian
0:18:50 > 0:18:55arrangement would continue with us as well.But would it be us asking
0:18:55 > 0:19:00those countries, can we carry on on this basis or would it be the EU
0:19:00 > 0:19:04saying, we are asking for Britain to be allowed to continue to access
0:19:04 > 0:19:09these deals, because that is an important distinction?It could be
0:19:09 > 0:19:13either or both and that is what my caveat comes down to. It depends on
0:19:13 > 0:19:17the guidelines given to the commission by the council.OK. What
0:19:17 > 0:19:21happened to the members see the Common fisheries policy during this
0:19:21 > 0:19:27time?Would we still be bound by it? Again, that is a negotiating issue.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30The problem is they would be quota setting during that period, so we
0:19:30 > 0:19:35have to have a resolution to that. We have not come to a policy
0:19:35 > 0:19:39conclusion.You haven't come to a conclusion. Fine. Would we accept
0:19:39 > 0:19:47the jurisdiction of the ECJ? Certainly initially. Their phase is
0:19:47 > 0:19:51settling period we say in limitation period. By the end of it, we want to
0:19:51 > 0:19:57be under alternative administration but we need to talk to the
0:19:57 > 0:20:01commission about that.By the end of it, you mean at the end of the
0:20:01 > 0:20:12limitation period? You would then move on to the new arrangement which
0:20:12 > 0:20:19may have a new court representing both parties? If you think length of
0:20:19 > 0:20:22the implementation period, the EU has been quite clear...Michel
0:20:22 > 0:20:27Barnier has been clear but we haven't heard from the council yet.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31The point about the next two and a half months is that the council will
0:20:31 > 0:20:35come to its conclusions and the commission will draw from them.But
0:20:35 > 0:20:39I thought, Secretary of State, you say we haven't heard from the
0:20:39 > 0:20:43council, but I thought the council was quite clear in its negotiating
0:20:43 > 0:20:47guidelines it gave to Michel Barnier.In the first round, are you
0:20:47 > 0:20:55talking about?That any period of transition...They haven't given an
0:20:55 > 0:21:03implementation period guidance yet. The final one will be in December.
0:21:03 > 0:21:07Right, so things like the open skies agreement, membership of the
0:21:07 > 0:21:13aviation authority, or of those things would continue to operate as
0:21:13 > 0:21:20now?I would expect so.You would expect so. That is extremely
0:21:20 > 0:21:26helpful. Access to the Schengen information system, which is vital
0:21:26 > 0:21:29to our security?I would expect all security and home affairs issues to
0:21:29 > 0:21:36continue.One very specific question. Do you know yet what fees
0:21:36 > 0:21:44would be charged to EU students starting courses in September 2019?
0:21:44 > 0:21:48Would they be home students or overseas students?We have at every
0:21:48 > 0:21:55turn treated them as home for purposes of the setting and for
0:21:55 > 0:22:01loans, so we treat them as home so far and I wouldn't see that would
0:22:01 > 0:22:06change in 2019.Thereafter, it might. That would be very helpful
0:22:06 > 0:22:10for universities because they have deepened their prospectuses next
0:22:10 > 0:22:14spring.Ironically, and forgive me if I have said it before, it was one
0:22:14 > 0:22:18of the miracles of the best August that we got the Treasury and the
0:22:18 > 0:22:23Department for Education to agree to change those things very rapidly
0:22:23 > 0:22:27first thing and thereafter.I am sure further miracles will be
0:22:27 > 0:22:34required before this process is over. Can I turn to the timing of
0:22:34 > 0:22:38all of this? Because the Prime Minister seemed to suggest recently
0:22:38 > 0:22:44that agreeing the deep and comprehensive partnership will in
0:22:44 > 0:22:48some way have to happen before the implementation period is agreed.If
0:22:48 > 0:22:55that indeed the case? Yes, what we are aiming for is the conclusion of
0:22:55 > 0:23:01negotiations on all fronts on the grounds that not everything is
0:23:01 > 0:23:09agreed by the end of March 20 19. So in effect, that is the case. So,
0:23:09 > 0:23:17yes, in principle, but she said in the chamber is correct. Follow the
0:23:17 > 0:23:22question on and I will take it from there.The Prime Minister appeared
0:23:22 > 0:23:27to suggest that deep and competence partnership would have to come
0:23:27 > 0:23:30before the agreement of the implementation period and this led
0:23:30 > 0:23:34to some comment and consternation, because I think all of us had
0:23:34 > 0:23:38assumed it was the other way round. You get the transition
0:23:38 > 0:23:43implementation period first and then you get...I am at risk of
0:23:43 > 0:23:47misleading you, so let me get it exactly right. What we are intending
0:23:47 > 0:23:55to do is get the form of the implementation period agreed quickly
0:23:55 > 0:23:59in December, but we want to conclude the overall negotiation, whatever
0:23:59 > 0:24:09the outcome might be, by the end of March 20 19.Right.There are a
0:24:09 > 0:24:14number of reasons for that. One of them is, what is the implementation
0:24:14 > 0:24:21period taking you towards? Are we going from where we are now to a
0:24:21 > 0:24:24free-trade agreement? Are we going from where we are now to what you
0:24:24 > 0:24:30might call a bare-bones agreement which is a WTO plus agreement? You
0:24:30 > 0:24:36need to know where you are going. Right, so you would agree and giving
0:24:36 > 0:24:44what you have just said, when the Chancellor gave evidence recently to
0:24:44 > 0:24:46the Treasury Select Committee, described transitional agreement as
0:24:46 > 0:24:52a wasting asset, very valuable now, but by next summer its value to
0:24:52 > 0:24:54everybody would diminish significantly.He is right. There
0:24:54 > 0:24:59are three reasons, it's not an entirely wasted asset, there are
0:24:59 > 0:25:06three reasons for the instrumentation period. Number one,
0:25:06 > 0:25:14not in order of importance, number one, in order to give the UK
0:25:14 > 0:25:18Government longer to put changes in place. We think we can get all the
0:25:18 > 0:25:22critical ones in place by March 2019 but it would give us longer and make
0:25:22 > 0:25:27it more reliable. Secondly and critically, give European countries
0:25:27 > 0:25:31time to put in place any structures they need to put in place, whether
0:25:31 > 0:25:35that is new customs arrangements, new data exchange arrangements,
0:25:35 > 0:25:40whatever. And thirdly, and this is the point that the Chancellor is
0:25:40 > 0:25:46making, to give businesses time after the decision is made on what
0:25:46 > 0:25:50the final outcome will be in order to make any subsequent changes to
0:25:50 > 0:25:53their own dispositions. The most obvious example, American banks who
0:25:53 > 0:25:59are the most sensitive to these things, would not have to make a
0:25:59 > 0:26:04decision on worst-case outcome is it worth today. They would know broadly
0:26:04 > 0:26:09what it would be before they need to move. That is the bit that is a
0:26:09 > 0:26:13wasting asset. The longer they have on that, the more they will feel
0:26:13 > 0:26:21they have deep move before knowing the outcome.That is why the select
0:26:21 > 0:26:24committee observed we thought there would need to be transitional
0:26:24 > 0:26:28arrangements.May I say, I don't mean to be critical, you said in the
0:26:28 > 0:26:31chamber at one point that she welcomed the foreign statement
0:26:31 > 0:26:38because it showed we were taking the limitation period seriously. The
0:26:38 > 0:26:43notion of an implement Asian period was aired in the Lancaster house
0:26:43 > 0:26:47speech as well. -- the notion of the limitation period was aired in the
0:26:47 > 0:26:59Lancaster house speech as well. Indeed it was.
0:27:01 > 0:27:06You have said you think an agreement can be made by March 20 19. Do you
0:27:06 > 0:27:13really think everything can be done in 12 months?Yes. The arguments
0:27:13 > 0:27:17against, I will lay them again, but the arguments against tend to be
0:27:17 > 0:27:21that other free-trade agreements are very different from ours. We start
0:27:21 > 0:27:31with identical regulatory arrangements, we start with an
0:27:31 > 0:27:38existing virtually 600 billion euro trade exchange and all the vested
0:27:38 > 0:27:44interests that go with that and the arrangements that go with that. We
0:27:44 > 0:27:49aim to a comprehensive free-trade agreement which would be tariff
0:27:49 > 0:27:53free. The customs agreement that would follow on from that if we
0:27:53 > 0:28:00achieved that would be one whose primary aim depending on some of the
0:28:00 > 0:28:04other components would be on rules of origin, on identifying and
0:28:04 > 0:28:10determining whether rules of origin required it. The bits of the
0:28:10 > 0:28:14agreement which are more regulatory and more complex tend to be those
0:28:14 > 0:28:20which don't fall within the free-trade arrangement directly.
0:28:20 > 0:28:25Issues like aviation service agreements. Issues like data
0:28:25 > 0:28:34exchange. Issues like recognition of driving licences. Those sorts of
0:28:34 > 0:28:41things. Now, that's a very broad range of issues and we would have to
0:28:41 > 0:28:43have a significant number of simultaneous negotiations going on
0:28:43 > 0:28:47on them that they are effectively independent. They are not
0:28:47 > 0:28:51interdependent. These things become problematic when you have got to do
0:28:51 > 0:28:57one before you can do another.The Brexit Secretary David Davis taking
0:28:57 > 0:29:00questions from the Brexit committee there. That is likely to go on for
0:29:00 > 0:29:04some time. We can go to Ben Wright who is still with us and who has
0:29:04 > 0:29:10been watching. Anything significant in what we have heard so far, then?
0:29:10 > 0:29:13Yes, I think, Tina. They were rattling through interesting areas
0:29:13 > 0:29:17there. Focusing very much on the question of what the transition
0:29:17 > 0:29:22period might look like. These are the two years or so that will follow
0:29:22 > 0:29:27Britain's departure from the EU in March 2019 and we know the
0:29:27 > 0:29:29government is looking for a standstill agreement which keeps
0:29:29 > 0:29:33things pretty much as they are at the moment although we would be out
0:29:33 > 0:29:37of the EU. David Davis was pressed on what Britain was asking for in
0:29:37 > 0:29:42that deal and he could see that throughout that period, the European
0:29:42 > 0:29:45Court of Justice judgments may still apply to the UK. He said we might
0:29:45 > 0:29:50still be members of the common fisheries policy, he hoped that the
0:29:50 > 0:29:53open skies agreement would remain in place to keep planes taking off from
0:29:53 > 0:29:58the UK and going to Europe in the same way that they do at the moment.
0:29:58 > 0:30:01They are looking for continuity bond that transition agreement although
0:30:01 > 0:30:06as David Davies conceded, it is up to the EU to decide really how they
0:30:06 > 0:30:10think that transition period might work by merrily and they are waiting
0:30:10 > 0:30:14for details from the EU which they hope will come under Samba on that.
0:30:14 > 0:30:18They are hoping to get the broad outline of that transition agreement
0:30:18 > 0:30:22agreed early in the New Year, which is something UK businesses are
0:30:22 > 0:30:29desperate to know, but he does also think that the entire agreement, the
0:30:29 > 0:30:33future trade agreement between the EU and the UK, can be done by the
0:30:33 > 0:30:38time Britain leads the EU in March 20 19. I think there are many in
0:30:38 > 0:30:42Brussels and here who doubt that, but David Davis definitely sees this
0:30:42 > 0:30:46transition agreement as being part of the broader discussion of where
0:30:46 > 0:30:49the trade relationship between the two is heading long term. I think
0:30:49 > 0:30:57this will be a very interesting session in the Commons this morning.
0:30:57 > 0:31:01There is another Brexit story doing the rounds involving universities
0:31:01 > 0:31:05and a letter?A Tory MP, Chris Heaton-Harris, has written to
0:31:05 > 0:31:09universities, asking them to give him details of who in their
0:31:09 > 0:31:13departments is teaching Brexit, European affairs, and asking for
0:31:13 > 0:31:19links to the courses that they are teaching, the syllabus. The latter
0:31:19 > 0:31:22emerged yesterday and there was quite a lot of consternation from
0:31:22 > 0:31:29academics, certainly, who ridiculed him on Twitter. Lord Patten, Chris
0:31:29 > 0:31:35Patten, the chairman, head of Oxford University, was incandescent and
0:31:35 > 0:31:44said that it was Leninist idiocy from Chris Heaton-Harris
0:31:44 > 0:31:46said that it was Leninist idiocy from Chris Heaton-Harris. Today, the
0:31:46 > 0:31:48Universities Minister came out to Spain what was going on. Mr Johnston
0:31:48 > 0:31:53said it was not a wise letter to send, and strongly defended
0:31:53 > 0:32:01University freedom. It is right that Chris, who is a super cerebral
0:32:01 > 0:32:06member of Parliament was acting as an MP, rather than a government
0:32:06 > 0:32:09minister or a representative of the government. And he has a very
0:32:09 > 0:32:12long-standing interest in European affairs, the history of European
0:32:12 > 0:32:16thought. I have spoken to him and he was suing inquiries of his own that
0:32:16 > 0:32:22may, in time, leads to a book on these questions. It was more of an
0:32:22 > 0:32:26academic inquiry, rather than an attempt to constrain the freedom
0:32:26 > 0:32:33that academics rightly hold.So, saying that it was the actions of an
0:32:33 > 0:32:39MP simply curious about how Brexit was being taught. I think it did
0:32:39 > 0:32:44cause a real row yesterday. Now, Jo Johnson hoping that he has hosed
0:32:44 > 0:32:48that down by saying that he didn't think it should have been sent, but
0:32:48 > 0:32:52you should see it in a context of academic inquiry. We will see if
0:32:52 > 0:32:56that is enough to kill the match off.
0:33:00 > 0:33:05Still to come, a new approach being trialled by Bedfordshire Police to
0:33:05 > 0:33:08tackle the growing problem of cyberstalking. We have had exclusive
0:33:08 > 0:33:12access to find out how it will work. ASP all business owners tell this
0:33:12 > 0:33:14programme they have instructed lawyers to bring criminal
0:33:14 > 0:33:21proceedings against RBS, alleging the bagged afforded -- the bank
0:33:21 > 0:33:24defrauded them.
0:33:24 > 0:33:29Lets get the latest news.
0:33:29 > 0:33:33The Brexit Secretary David Davis will face scrutiny from MPs shortly.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36Mr Davis will be questioned about developments in the European Union
0:33:36 > 0:33:38divorce talks amid claims he has held up progress
0:33:38 > 0:33:41on crucial exit laws.
0:33:41 > 0:33:44Follows concerns from EU leaders that there has not been enough
0:33:44 > 0:33:49movement to proceed to the next aid of talks.We want to conclude the
0:33:49 > 0:33:53overall negotiation, whatever the outcome may be. We want to do that
0:33:53 > 0:34:00by the end of March 2019. There are a number of reasons for that. One of
0:34:00 > 0:34:09them is, what are you implement in, what is the limitation period? --
0:34:09 > 0:34:12what is the implementation period. Is it going from where we are now to
0:34:12 > 0:34:18a free trade agreement, to a bare-bones agreement, WTO plus
0:34:18 > 0:34:21agreements on the fundamentals like aviation? We need to know where we
0:34:21 > 0:34:27go.MPs are beginning an inquiry into e-cigarettes, amid concerns
0:34:27 > 0:34:31there are significant gaps in what is known about them and how they are
0:34:31 > 0:34:35regulated. The Science And Technology Committee will cut
0:34:35 > 0:34:38effectiveness in stopping smoking and impact on health. Nearly 3
0:34:38 > 0:34:44million people in the UK now vape regularly, four times more than
0:34:44 > 0:34:472012.
0:34:47 > 0:34:50More than half of all British women have suffered sexual harassment
0:34:50 > 0:34:52at work or their place of study, according to a survey
0:34:52 > 0:34:54by BBC Radio 5 Live.
0:34:54 > 0:34:58Nearly 70% of those questioned said they had not reported it. The survey
0:34:58 > 0:35:03of 2000 adults also found a fifth of men have been sexually harassed.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05An electrician from Stirling who was facing three months
0:35:05 > 0:35:08in prison in Dubai for public indecency has spoken of his relief
0:35:08 > 0:35:09at returning home to the UK.
0:35:09 > 0:35:11Jamie Harron was sentenced for touching a man's
0:35:11 > 0:35:13hip in a crowded bar, but freed after Dubai's
0:35:13 > 0:35:19ruler intervened.
0:35:23 > 0:35:29Let's get the sport now.
0:35:29 > 0:35:31The Premier League's bottom club Crystal Palace were beaten by
0:35:31 > 0:35:33Championship side Bristol City in the league cup.
0:35:33 > 0:35:36Arsenal needed extra time to get past
0:35:36 > 0:35:37Norwich, Manchester City beat Championship leaders
0:35:37 > 0:35:41Wolves on penalties.
0:35:41 > 0:35:43Manchester United, the cup holders, are through to the quarterfinals
0:35:45 > 0:35:46after beating Swansea 2-0.
0:35:46 > 0:35:47Jesse Lingaard scored twice.
0:35:47 > 0:35:49leicester and Bournemouth also reached the last 8 last
0:35:49 > 0:35:51night.
0:35:51 > 0:35:54There were three matches in the Scottish Premiership last night.
0:35:54 > 0:35:56Hibs the only winners.
0:35:56 > 0:35:581-0 in the Edinburgh derby against Hearts.
0:35:58 > 0:35:59Simon Murray the goalscorer.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02British Cycling says the "door is open" for former sprinter
0:36:02 > 0:36:07Jess Varnish to return to the sport.
0:36:07 > 0:36:16She made allegations of bullying and sexual discrimination. He was found
0:36:16 > 0:36:19to have used sexist language.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21And England's women cricketers are getting ready for the second
0:36:21 > 0:36:24match in their Ashes series against Australia which gets under
0:36:24 > 0:36:25way early tomorrow morning our time.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27They narrowly lost their first match.
0:36:27 > 0:36:35We will hear from the England cricketers after ten.
0:36:35 > 0:36:37New economic growth figures are just out -
0:36:37 > 0:36:39and they'll have a significant impact on the Bank of England
0:36:39 > 0:36:42decision on interest rates which we're expecting next week.
0:36:42 > 0:36:44Let's talk to our economics correspondent Andy Verity -
0:36:44 > 0:36:48he's got the latest.
0:36:48 > 0:36:51Can you explain these figures and what impact they might have on
0:36:51 > 0:36:57interest rates and the pound?The first headline is that we have 0.4%
0:36:57 > 0:37:01growth in the first quarter of the year. That is more than most
0:37:01 > 0:37:08economists were expecting. We were expecting it would be 0.3%. That is
0:37:08 > 0:37:12positive. If you look at the gross domestic product per head, dividing
0:37:12 > 0:37:16everything we produce in the whole economy by the number of people in
0:37:16 > 0:37:21it, it has grown by 0.3%. That is good news, it means that the amount
0:37:21 > 0:37:24we each produce is growing and that employers might be able to pay a
0:37:24 > 0:37:28wage that goes up faster than inflation, at least in future. It is
0:37:28 > 0:37:31all upbeat signs. It makes it more likely that the Bank of England is
0:37:31 > 0:37:35going to raise interest rates back to the 0.5% level next month.
0:37:35 > 0:37:39Remember, that is still an emergency level. It is the lowest level in 300
0:37:39 > 0:37:43years. But it does mean for the first time in more than a decade
0:37:43 > 0:37:46that we are likely to get a rise in interest rates. Interesting
0:37:46 > 0:37:52dimension is to this, although services have done well, computer
0:37:52 > 0:37:56games were selling well, if you look at production it was up, that is
0:37:56 > 0:37:59mining and the oil industry. But construction, the sad story there.
0:37:59 > 0:38:04That is in recession. We have had two quarters of economic shrinkage
0:38:04 > 0:38:07in construction. That does not bode well for the future of the
0:38:07 > 0:38:11construction sector.
0:38:11 > 0:38:13And the increase in cyberstalking, which can be anything
0:38:13 > 0:38:16from sending too many texts, to leaving nasty messages
0:38:16 > 0:38:19on your social media pages.
0:38:19 > 0:38:22For some people, it takes 100 different pieces of that type
0:38:22 > 0:38:24of stalking before they'll even consider going to the police.
0:38:24 > 0:38:26And when they get there, their problem isn't
0:38:26 > 0:38:27always taken seriously.
0:38:27 > 0:38:29Well, Bedfordshire Police and the National Centre
0:38:29 > 0:38:31for Cyberstalking Research are putting together a three
0:38:31 > 0:38:33step programme to help victims from when they go
0:38:33 > 0:38:35to report their experience, right through to
0:38:35 > 0:38:38rehabilitating the offender.
0:38:38 > 0:38:40Our reporter Chi Chi Izundu's been looking into this.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43And we just have to warn you that there is some language
0:38:43 > 0:38:46in the film which some viewers might find offensive.
0:38:53 > 0:38:56I met my ex through a friend of a friend.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59He was known as being quite a successful, happy, funny kind of
0:38:59 > 0:39:02guy, who people seemed to like.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06This is Helen.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08It's not her real name or real voice.
0:39:08 > 0:39:10But her story is very true.
0:39:10 > 0:39:16The relationship for the first year was really good.
0:39:16 > 0:39:18We had lots of fun. He met my family.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21And everything appeared as if it was going really well.
0:39:21 > 0:39:23And then slowly things started to deteriorate and
0:39:23 > 0:39:26there was sort of, now I look back, subtle signs that actually all
0:39:26 > 0:39:28wasn't as well as it first appeared.
0:39:29 > 0:39:32"To create fear, distress and disrupt the daily activities of
0:39:32 > 0:39:36another person" - that is stalking.
0:39:36 > 0:39:39Official Home Office stats are quite sketchy.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42That's because most people don't actually go and report it.
0:39:42 > 0:39:44And when it comes to online stalking, the
0:39:44 > 0:39:45numbers are even smaller.
0:39:45 > 0:39:49Less than 10% go to the police.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51The National Stalking Helpline say so far this
0:39:51 > 0:39:53year they have responded to more than 2500 calls and e-mails
0:39:53 > 0:39:57from victims.
0:39:57 > 0:40:02Come Christmas, they are expecting that number to have doubled.
0:40:02 > 0:40:05I suppose one of the most prevalent sources of stalking is when a
0:40:05 > 0:40:06relationship breaks down.
0:40:06 > 0:40:14There was some research recently that said that about 80% of
0:40:14 > 0:40:16people after break-ups still check into your account through a friend's
0:40:16 > 0:40:19account, even if they have been blocked on Facebook, to see what you
0:40:19 > 0:40:21are up to.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24It was horrific.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27It was the only way I could describe it.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30So from then on, for the next few weeks, I was receiving calls,
0:40:30 > 0:40:34e-mails, texts, nonstop.
0:40:34 > 0:40:37One day there was 457 text messages.
0:40:37 > 0:40:39So these text messages were absolutely vile
0:40:39 > 0:40:42in nature, very abusive.
0:40:42 > 0:40:43He called me a slag.
0:40:43 > 0:40:45How dare I end this?
0:40:45 > 0:40:46Nobody would want me.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48The next message would be begging for me to
0:40:48 > 0:40:51take him back, to give him a chance.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53These phone calls, texts, e-mails, went on and on.
0:40:53 > 0:41:01I didn't respond to any of them.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04So then he started texting and e-mailing and calling my family.
0:41:04 > 0:41:06It then progressed onto he posted on social media, sort of
0:41:06 > 0:41:09like a lonely hearts column.
0:41:09 > 0:41:12But it was about me.
0:41:12 > 0:41:15It was very vulgar in nature.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18In them he advertised that I had sexually transmitted infections,
0:41:18 > 0:41:22which was untrue.
0:41:22 > 0:41:27He advertised the fact I had HIV, which was untrue.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29Dr Emma Short is the director for the National Centre
0:41:29 > 0:41:32for Cyberstalking Research at the University of Bedfordshire.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34She says stalkers are using sophisticated methods like
0:41:34 > 0:41:40hacking computers and phones to get information on their victims.
0:41:40 > 0:41:41It just doesn't stop.
0:41:41 > 0:41:44It's about the fact it just doesn't stop.
0:41:44 > 0:41:46And even if the content of those messages is
0:41:46 > 0:41:49quite banal, it's just an attempt to have a relationship or to meet you,
0:41:49 > 0:41:51or to get more information about you.
0:41:51 > 0:42:00It's very intimidating when people just don't see the stop signs.
0:42:00 > 0:42:02People told me he'd actually screenshot some of the things he'd
0:42:02 > 0:42:04done and send it to me.
0:42:04 > 0:42:07Almost like a trophy - "Look what I've done."
0:42:07 > 0:42:10Because even though I'd blocked him on my phone, I wasn't sure how
0:42:10 > 0:42:12to block him on e-mail.
0:42:12 > 0:42:16That was the time I decided I needed to go to the police.
0:42:16 > 0:42:18Victims of harassment and stalking in England
0:42:18 > 0:42:21and Wales are being left at risk...
0:42:21 > 0:42:25..because of failings by police and prosecutors.
0:42:25 > 0:42:27Later on we are going to hear from one woman who was
0:42:27 > 0:42:29stalked over a period of five years.
0:42:29 > 0:42:31In that time she made more than 125 complaints
0:42:31 > 0:42:36to the police, who did little.
0:42:36 > 0:42:38Back in July, police and prosecutors in England and Wales
0:42:38 > 0:42:40were heavily criticised by the Inspectorate of Constabulary
0:42:40 > 0:42:45and the Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate.
0:42:45 > 0:42:47A report found too many investigations were poorly run
0:42:47 > 0:42:56and failed to give victims legal protection, leaving them at risk.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59When I first went to the police, initially they were quite
0:42:59 > 0:43:01responsive, and they looked at the information I gave them
0:43:01 > 0:43:06and agreed it wasn't acceptable.
0:43:06 > 0:43:08And they said they were going to speak to him.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10Now for me in that position, them going
0:43:10 > 0:43:14to speak to him wasn't the best thing.
0:43:14 > 0:43:16But I was glad they were doing something.
0:43:16 > 0:43:17Not once was stalking mentioned to me.
0:43:17 > 0:43:20Not even though all of these phone calls and
0:43:20 > 0:43:22approaching family members and friends were still going on.
0:43:22 > 0:43:27Plus the social media postings.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30Plus him driving past my work, driving past my house.
0:43:30 > 0:43:32Even when I was with one of the police officers he was
0:43:32 > 0:43:34repeatedly driving past my house, and stalking
0:43:34 > 0:43:35was never mentioned to me.
0:43:35 > 0:43:38So he received a caution and he breached his condition by again
0:43:38 > 0:43:39posting things on social media.
0:43:39 > 0:43:47He tried to communicate with me directly.
0:43:47 > 0:43:50It was at this point when I was going back to the police
0:43:50 > 0:43:52repeatedly, I felt I wasn't really listened to.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54I was getting comments from the police officer such as,
0:43:54 > 0:43:57"Well, he is from a nice family, can't you ignore the Facebook stuff?
0:43:57 > 0:44:00Ask your friends not to show it to you any more."
0:44:00 > 0:44:02And advising me not to use social media.
0:44:02 > 0:44:04That was the response I got from the police.
0:44:04 > 0:44:07There were times and I was ringing the nonemergency line to report
0:44:07 > 0:44:08things that were happening.
0:44:08 > 0:44:10Sometimes I would have to wait up to two weeks,
0:44:10 > 0:44:13in some cases usually around five to seven days, for an appointment.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15"Not acceptable" - that is how this report described
0:44:15 > 0:44:18experiences like Helen's, even when it came to going to the police.
0:44:18 > 0:44:21Victim blaming and the number of prosecutions were all criticised.
0:44:21 > 0:44:24But Dr Short is working with Bedfordshire Police on a three step
0:44:24 > 0:44:25programme to try and change this.
0:44:25 > 0:44:28Firstly, front line officers will get a risk assessment at the first
0:44:28 > 0:44:29point of a complaint.
0:44:29 > 0:44:31Secondly, helping victims record abuse via a special app.
0:44:31 > 0:44:34And thirdly, tackling the behaviour itself.
0:44:34 > 0:44:38Other forces will be watching with interest.
0:44:38 > 0:44:40One of the things that we think is a necessary
0:44:40 > 0:44:44gap to fill at the moment is a quick response from people who are not
0:44:44 > 0:44:47IT advanced.
0:44:47 > 0:44:49To understand when someone reports a case, what constitutes
0:44:49 > 0:44:51a higher risk than others. And it's very hard.
0:44:51 > 0:44:54If you aren't online yourself, but also if you're
0:44:54 > 0:44:56listening to a phone call with someone who perhaps isn't
0:44:56 > 0:44:58communicating the level, they are just communicating the content, it's
0:44:58 > 0:45:02very hard to assess.
0:45:02 > 0:45:08Emma and her team have written specific questions
0:45:08 > 0:45:10with front line officers to determine the level of risk a
0:45:10 > 0:45:14stalker could potentially pose to evict them.
0:45:15 > 0:45:17On average it takes about three months before somebody
0:45:17 > 0:45:21will go to the police, roughly.
0:45:21 > 0:45:24And they tend to put up with about a hundred
0:45:24 > 0:45:26bits of behaviour - so, a hundred texts,
0:45:26 > 0:45:40a hundred e-mails, a hundred approaches.
0:45:40 > 0:45:42So that first trip to the police station, where
0:45:42 > 0:45:45you actually report this comment is crucial, because the response
0:45:45 > 0:45:47you get from the police officers, if that is negative,
0:45:47 > 0:45:49or they trivialise it, you may not go back again.
0:45:49 > 0:45:51Some cases have often been described as
0:45:51 > 0:45:52murder in slow motion.
0:45:52 > 0:45:54Professionals often talk about stalking as the
0:45:54 > 0:45:56only crime a victim has to collect their own evidence.
0:45:56 > 0:45:59Dr Short and her team are hoping this special app
0:45:59 > 0:46:00can help with that.
0:46:00 > 0:46:02When I, as the victim, get the app, can you explain
0:46:02 > 0:46:03how it works?
0:46:03 > 0:46:05OK, so once you get the app...
0:46:05 > 0:46:08Victims deemed as media risk will have to get a special
0:46:08 > 0:46:11login code before they are given access to the app, and they will
0:46:11 > 0:46:13only get that a front line officers think they should.
0:46:13 > 0:46:15Evidence is things like phone calls, screen
0:46:15 > 0:46:16shots, videos, sound recordings.
0:46:16 > 0:46:19It also captures the meta data, so the
0:46:19 > 0:46:22information of coding behind the messages -
0:46:22 > 0:46:24websites, videos - and that all can be
0:46:24 > 0:46:26used to help police track down the offender.
0:46:26 > 0:46:32And we can start recording the screen and they
0:46:32 > 0:46:36can navigate away from the app.
0:46:36 > 0:46:38We are going to be recording everything
0:46:38 > 0:46:39that is happening on the screen.
0:46:39 > 0:46:42So if we open another app, we're going to be capturing this.
0:46:42 > 0:46:43Stop record. There we go.
0:46:43 > 0:46:44There is a screenshot.
0:46:44 > 0:46:46We have now attached that to our package.
0:46:46 > 0:46:50Once you've got it all, you can make notes to say how this
0:46:50 > 0:46:51particular evidence has affected us.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54Then you can upload it.
0:46:54 > 0:46:57So if the phone is lost, stolen or tampered with, that data
0:46:57 > 0:47:01is preserved, the evidence is preserved.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03Each piece of evidence gathered goes directly to a police
0:47:03 > 0:47:09database, so officers can build up the severity of the case.
0:47:09 > 0:47:11This is someone who is putting time and
0:47:11 > 0:47:15investment and hours into causing and distress.
0:47:15 > 0:47:18At that point you are looking at someone who has become fixated.
0:47:18 > 0:47:21And that is the highest end of risk.
0:47:21 > 0:47:24I can't even go into our local town or supermarket,
0:47:24 > 0:47:31because he is well known where we live and people like him.
0:47:31 > 0:47:33But when I walked into the supermarket a few
0:47:33 > 0:47:36weeks after it happened, I noticed people who were looking at me,
0:47:36 > 0:47:37making comments.
0:47:37 > 0:47:39I knew these were people who knew him.
0:47:39 > 0:47:41That was really, really tough to live through.
0:47:41 > 0:47:45But the problem about securing convictions still remains.
0:47:45 > 0:47:46For Detective Inspector Chris Beresford, it
0:47:46 > 0:47:48isn't just about the punishment.
0:47:48 > 0:47:50It is also about treating the behaviour.
0:47:50 > 0:47:54The third piece of work is a restorative justice space
0:47:54 > 0:47:57outcome, so that we can deal with the offenders
0:47:57 > 0:48:01for cyberstalking and harassing, and we can address why
0:48:01 > 0:48:05they are committing crimes, try to get to bottom of them
0:48:05 > 0:48:06understanding the actual massive impact their crimes
0:48:06 > 0:48:09have on their victims.
0:48:09 > 0:48:13And that job could fall to Dr Frank Farnham, a consultant
0:48:13 > 0:48:15forensic psychiatrist, who is part of the UK's only stalking
0:48:15 > 0:48:18rehabilitation centre.
0:48:18 > 0:48:19Whether rehabilitation is possible though,
0:48:19 > 0:48:22is a different matter.
0:48:22 > 0:48:23There are some individuals who are so
0:48:23 > 0:48:26entrenched and ingrained in their behaviour,
0:48:26 > 0:48:31they will not make a change.
0:48:31 > 0:48:34And you have to accept the fact it's going to be a group that
0:48:34 > 0:48:36will not want to engage in treatment at all.
0:48:36 > 0:48:39But this is a behaviour that the offenders reoffend at such a
0:48:39 > 0:48:42high rate, that even if you make a small change in the reoffending
0:48:42 > 0:48:44rate, that would be quite a lot of offending
0:48:44 > 0:48:45that you would be changing.
0:48:45 > 0:48:47It made me feel like I was worthless.
0:48:47 > 0:48:52I'm sort of a very strong, independent, bubbly sort of person.
0:48:52 > 0:48:54I try to see the best of everything.
0:48:54 > 0:48:57That situation was the hardest thing I've ever had to go
0:48:57 > 0:48:59through, and I was very angry at him.
0:48:59 > 0:49:05I was determined I was going to get through it.
0:49:05 > 0:49:07After 10, we'll be speaking to a victim of cyberstalking
0:49:07 > 0:49:10and a police and crime commissioner who wants to change her force's
0:49:10 > 0:49:20response to stalking victims.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25A group of small business owners have exclusively told this programme
0:49:25 > 0:49:27they have instructed barristers to bring criminal proceedings
0:49:27 > 0:49:29against RBS - alleging the bank defrauded them
0:49:29 > 0:49:30and caused their businesses to fail.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33The Financial Conduct Authority is already considering whether it
0:49:33 > 0:49:36can take action against RBS after it published a summary of its report
0:49:36 > 0:49:37on the bank's controversial Global Restructuring Group.
0:49:37 > 0:49:39The group was found to have "widespread" mistreatment
0:49:39 > 0:49:42of customers with the FCA report identifying that 92% of viable
0:49:42 > 0:49:44businesses handled by GRG suffered "inappropriate action".
0:49:44 > 0:49:46RBS said it has acknowledged failings and has apologised
0:49:46 > 0:49:47for its mistakes.
0:49:47 > 0:49:50In recent days, the Royal Bank of Scotland's past treatment of its
0:49:50 > 0:49:52small and medium-sized business customers has come under fresh
0:49:52 > 0:49:53scrutiny. So what's it all about?
0:49:53 > 0:49:56Well, back in 2014, the businessman and former government adviser,
0:49:56 > 0:49:58Lawrence Tomlinson, alleged that the bank had deliberately
0:49:58 > 0:49:59wrecked small businesses to make profit, prompting
0:49:59 > 0:50:02a review by the regulator of the Financial Conduct Authority.
0:50:02 > 0:50:05On Monday, an interim report published
0:50:05 > 0:50:07by the FCA did identify a number of failings by the bank,
0:50:07 > 0:50:09such as interest charges being raised inappropriately,
0:50:09 > 0:50:10and unnecessary fees being added.
0:50:10 > 0:50:12The report said that 92% of potentially viable
0:50:12 > 0:50:14businesses faced instances of inappropriate treatment by the
0:50:14 > 0:50:17Global Restructuring Group, the division of RBS that dealt with
0:50:17 > 0:50:19struggling firms.
0:50:19 > 0:50:21It also said that RBS had failed to handle customer
0:50:21 > 0:50:24complaints fairly, and failed to support businesses in a way that
0:50:24 > 0:50:26made industry standards.
0:50:26 > 0:50:29The unit was said to have been insensitive,
0:50:29 > 0:50:31dismissive and sometimes unduly aggressive towards struggling
0:50:31 > 0:50:33business owners.
0:50:33 > 0:50:36But RBS said that some of the most serious allegations
0:50:36 > 0:50:40against the bank were not upheld by the regulator,
0:50:40 > 0:50:43and that the way the bank operator has been completely
0:50:43 > 0:50:47changed since the alleged mistreatment took place.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50The bank has put aside £400 million to
0:50:50 > 0:50:53compensate small businesses, but the FCA has warned RBS may
0:50:53 > 0:50:55face further action.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57With many small businesses still awaiting compensation
0:50:57 > 0:51:00payments, the bank is still very far from being in the clear.
0:51:06 > 0:51:10The Financial Conduct Authority has said it might take further action
0:51:10 > 0:51:13over the way the Royal Bank of Scotland mistreated some small
0:51:13 > 0:51:18business customers. But does that go far enough? Some of those small
0:51:18 > 0:51:22business customers have exclusively told this programme may have
0:51:22 > 0:51:28addressed lawyers.
0:51:28 > 0:51:30Let's talk now to Neil Mitchell.
0:51:30 > 0:51:32He's leading the group of business owners who've been affected
0:51:32 > 0:51:33by the Global Restructuring Group.
0:51:33 > 0:51:39Also Bill Esterson, Labour's Shadow Business Minister who has called
0:51:39 > 0:51:44for a judge-led inquiry, and Clive May - his
0:51:44 > 0:51:46bricklaying business went into liquidation as a result
0:51:46 > 0:51:49of GRG.
0:51:49 > 0:51:53Brill, you have been pretty clear that you want to judge that enquiry
0:51:53 > 0:51:59into this.How wide-ranging should it be? People lost their businesses,
0:51:59 > 0:52:02family life was torn apart and in some cases, people took their lives,
0:52:02 > 0:52:07so we have to get to the bottom of what happened. We have got to
0:52:07 > 0:52:09establish the whole truth and back can only happen with the judge
0:52:09 > 0:52:14leading quietly. I have also got people coming to meet from other
0:52:14 > 0:52:16banks who have experienced similar unacceptable inappropriate treatment
0:52:16 > 0:52:22and that is why a judge needs to look at this filly, so that we can
0:52:22 > 0:52:26repair the damage and move on so that trust can be re-established
0:52:26 > 0:52:33between smaller businesses and the banks. Look, you quoted the report.
0:52:33 > 0:52:38Something in the full report, the BBC have already reported, this was
0:52:38 > 0:52:42part of an intended, co-ordinated strategy and management really, if
0:52:42 > 0:52:45they didn't know, they certainly should have known what was going on
0:52:45 > 0:52:49and what we have seen so far is a good step forward. We need to see
0:52:49 > 0:52:53the full report and it will only be with a full judge led enquiry that
0:52:53 > 0:52:58we will get to the bottom of this, and this culture of inappropriate
0:52:58 > 0:53:01treatment, of putting profit first ahead of the lives and livelihoods
0:53:01 > 0:53:06of business people up and down the land.The Royal Bank of Scotland
0:53:06 > 0:53:12have apologised, they have set aside £440 million that have already given
0:53:12 > 0:53:17at £100 billion whether compensation. You don't think that
0:53:17 > 0:53:21goes far enough?No, because -- £100 million worth of compensation. You
0:53:21 > 0:53:27don't think that goes far enough? No, because people want justice,
0:53:27 > 0:53:32confirmation of what was done to them. The report talks about
0:53:32 > 0:53:37distressed businesses being taken into this group but we have to look
0:53:37 > 0:53:40at why these businesses were distressed. I know of businesses
0:53:40 > 0:53:43where their overdraft facilities were stopped overnight, they
0:53:43 > 0:53:48couldn't repay it and that is why they became distressed and went into
0:53:48 > 0:53:51the global restructuring group in the first place. We have got to get
0:53:51 > 0:53:54the whole thing out there, clean up what happened in the past and make
0:53:54 > 0:53:59sure it cannot carry on, because I have also got people telling us it
0:53:59 > 0:54:03is still going on today at more than one bank. We have got to get to the
0:54:03 > 0:54:07bottom of it and I think a judge is the only way of doing that.Where do
0:54:07 > 0:54:11you stand on criminal proceedings? The police are already looking at
0:54:11 > 0:54:17this. I think that is highly significant.Significant, but what
0:54:17 > 0:54:22do you think in terms of criminal proceedings?I think when there is
0:54:22 > 0:54:25an investigation going on, it is inappropriate for me to comment
0:54:25 > 0:54:30further but I think it shows that things are happening. We have got a
0:54:30 > 0:54:36police investigation, lawyers being instructed and I think that is part
0:54:36 > 0:54:41of building a full picture of what happened.I think it is about
0:54:41 > 0:54:44whether it is appropriate to go down that route because there are
0:54:44 > 0:54:49questions around motive, was there a native or was it poor management?
0:54:49 > 0:55:01Are we talking about dishonesty or mismanagement?The report has said
0:55:01 > 0:55:06this was part of a co-ordinated strategy and that tells me and I
0:55:06 > 0:55:10think it tells everyone there is a need to get this out in the open
0:55:10 > 0:55:14with full disclosure.Do you think, as you have said, many people's
0:55:14 > 0:55:19lives have been ruined, people have taken their own lives, do you think
0:55:19 > 0:55:24individuals involved should be held accountable?Absolutely and that is
0:55:24 > 0:55:28why the full truth has to come out. We have got to establish exactly
0:55:28 > 0:55:34what happened beyond any reasonable doubt will stop at the moment, we've
0:55:34 > 0:55:37got partial disclosure with this interim report. The full report
0:55:37 > 0:55:43needs to come out as well. The interim report's author has called
0:55:43 > 0:55:49for the full report to be published. That has got to happen, too.So this
0:55:49 > 0:55:57isn't just a truth seeking exercise? Criminal investigations would be
0:55:57 > 0:56:03necessary as well.That isn't for me to say. Before we have a clear
0:56:03 > 0:56:10picture, we can't move forward, we can't access finance properly in
0:56:10 > 0:56:15this country. John McDonald talked about maybe using RBS as a way to
0:56:15 > 0:56:19set up a network of regional development banks, using our
0:56:19 > 0:56:23national investment bank model and maybe that's what needs to come out
0:56:23 > 0:56:27of this, but that is further down the line, that is one option. The
0:56:27 > 0:56:31reality is that this has all got to come out because what has happened
0:56:31 > 0:56:35to thousands and thousands of people and businesses is just plain wrong
0:56:35 > 0:56:41and it has got to be sorted out.OK, I want to bring you kneel next. You
0:56:41 > 0:56:44represent a lot of people you have been affected by this. Can you tell
0:56:44 > 0:56:50us what you are planning in terms of legal action?We are planning to
0:56:50 > 0:56:53raise a private criminal prosecution on the basis that there has been a
0:56:53 > 0:56:57failure of the state to investigate. We learned last week that police in
0:56:57 > 0:57:02Scotland are investigating a number of cases. RBS are trying to minimise
0:57:02 > 0:57:08it, saying it is only one. It is a number. I am also aware that police
0:57:08 > 0:57:12forces in Belfast, Manchester and North Wales are looking into cases.
0:57:12 > 0:57:17Neither police force, the City of London Police or the Met police in
0:57:17 > 0:57:21the London bubble are investigating any cases at all. We believe this is
0:57:21 > 0:57:25a failure of the state to investigate RBS so we are now
0:57:25 > 0:57:29launching a private criminal prosecution with 11 case examples
0:57:29 > 0:57:35and we will be presenting that to a magistrate very shortly.RBS has
0:57:35 > 0:57:40admitted fault, they have set aside money to compensate people, to
0:57:40 > 0:57:42compensate victims. What more do you want for yourself and others
0:57:42 > 0:57:50affected?I want to see, as Bill says, a judge led enquiry or even
0:57:50 > 0:58:00evil and wider public enquiry. We need to have evil regulators report
0:58:00 > 0:58:05published -- we need to have the full regulators report published so
0:58:05 > 0:58:09that thousands and thousands of British businesses, their families
0:58:09 > 0:58:14and their employees can see justice done, and then we need compensation
0:58:14 > 0:58:17and it's not £300 million. This is a multi-billion pound problem and that
0:58:17 > 0:58:22is why the bank are trying to minimise it.All right, I need to
0:58:22 > 0:58:27try to bring in Clive. Live, you ran a successful bricklaying business.
0:58:27 > 0:58:32Tell us what happened to you.Back in 2010, the bank decided we were in
0:58:32 > 0:58:37a sector they weren't interested in so they decided in my case to use a
0:58:37 > 0:58:41government scheme, the enterprise Finance guarantee scheme, to repay
0:58:41 > 0:58:46off a large portion their debt, which was originally designed to
0:58:46 > 0:58:50safeguard jobs in the downturn. In the background, they were planning
0:58:50 > 0:58:56on cutting our overdraft further so our overdraft was cut from 245,000,
0:58:56 > 0:59:02which had never been breached, down to 20,000. Now, the Davis government
0:59:02 > 0:59:07scheme was drawn down, we were put into RBS's distressed part of the
0:59:07 > 0:59:12bank, so we were a viable business that were artificially distressed by
0:59:12 > 0:59:18RBS.What do you want to happen? Well, what I want to happen is that
0:59:18 > 0:59:25people, you touched on it, is it incompetence or dishonesty? Back in
0:59:25 > 0:59:29December last year we discovered that in the case of global
0:59:29 > 0:59:35restructuring group West register, the property group of RBS, in flow
0:59:35 > 0:59:41charts, in e-mails and in registration, and in particular in a
0:59:41 > 0:59:44manual in 2011, they were instructing all staff upon seizure
0:59:44 > 0:59:50of S M E assets, they would send out a victory e-mail. Now consider the
0:59:50 > 0:59:54victory you now and then consider the family that contacted me and
0:59:54 > 1:00:01said that their loved one killed himself, sorry...That's OK, take
1:00:01 > 1:00:09your time.Leading two daughters, five and seven, because they were
1:00:09 > 1:00:13absolutely gutted to find out that when their loved one was taking
1:00:13 > 1:00:23their life, RBS worth sending out victory e-mails. Sorry about this.
1:00:23 > 1:00:27No, take your time. It's a difficult thing to talk about and we
1:00:27 > 1:00:32appreciate you taking the time. Given how upsetting it is for you to
1:00:32 > 1:00:36talk about this for yourself and for others you have heard of, what do
1:00:36 > 1:00:44you want to happen?I want to see individuals brought to account.In
1:00:44 > 1:00:48my particular case... We can't name individuals here, I just need to say
1:00:48 > 1:00:52that.I won't name anyone, but the bank had to clarify in my case that
1:00:52 > 1:00:59there were no assets available. I was told to delete assets from an
1:00:59 > 1:01:03asset and liability statement and later on they told me I was asked to
1:01:03 > 1:01:08do that because it was inherited by my wife is due to the death of one
1:01:08 > 1:01:17of her relatives. Nobody had died. Now is that incompetence of is
1:01:17 > 1:01:21They are inventing deaths in people's family. If I could touch
1:01:21 > 1:01:27upon the CEO of the FCA, Andrew Bailey, when this was brought to his
1:01:27 > 1:01:30attention, his response was perhaps your file got mixed up with somebody
1:01:30 > 1:01:35else's.He is not here to defend himself, so we are not going to go
1:01:35 > 1:01:39down that route. I just want to know, have you managed to rebuild
1:01:39 > 1:01:43your life? Are you in business at the moment?Rebuilding it very
1:01:43 > 1:01:48slowly, we managed to pick ourselves off the ground. That is what SMEs in
1:01:48 > 1:01:53the UK do. They are the driving factor of the economy. You dust
1:01:53 > 1:01:58yourself off. But this experience for the last five years, nearly six
1:01:58 > 1:02:04years, has taken its toll. How do you rebuild a business?
1:02:04 > 1:02:07Incidentally, in my case, I left school with no qualifications. Ended
1:02:07 > 1:02:13up building a business and having 100 people turning over £3.5
1:02:13 > 1:02:17million. How do you rebuild that at this time of your life?Difficult, I
1:02:17 > 1:02:21know, difficult to speak about this when it is obviously still very
1:02:21 > 1:02:26distressing for you. We appreciate you coming on. Now it is time to get
1:02:26 > 1:02:27the latest weather update.
1:02:30 > 1:02:35Good morning. For many it has been a lovely start to the day. We have had
1:02:35 > 1:02:38a decent sunrise. Pretty decent weather watcher photos being sent in
1:02:38 > 1:02:44as well. Lovely blue skies in Cheshire. The far south-east of
1:02:44 > 1:02:47England, still holding on a bit of cloud around. This is Dorset at the
1:02:47 > 1:02:52moment. That cloud across the south and east will tend to disappear.
1:02:52 > 1:02:54Even here you will get some sunshine. Fair weather cloud
1:02:54 > 1:02:59developing into the afternoon, across the far north of Scotland is
1:02:59 > 1:03:03to be quite breezy with some showers coming in towards the West of
1:03:03 > 1:03:07Scotland. Towards eastern Scotland, through southern areas, largely dry
1:03:07 > 1:03:11and bright. Temperatures of 12 or 13 degrees. Sunny spells for Northern
1:03:11 > 1:03:15Ireland and through much of England and Wales during this afternoon. A
1:03:15 > 1:03:19fine afternoon for most of us. Temperatures potentially up to 19 or
1:03:19 > 1:03:22maybe 20 degrees in the south-east, way above the average for the time
1:03:22 > 1:03:30of year. In the south-west of England you will notice a bit more
1:03:30 > 1:03:32cloud starting to move back in. We still have this weather front
1:03:32 > 1:03:34situated across southern areas which will move further northwards
1:03:34 > 1:03:37tonight. That will bring outbreaks of rain across Wales, into the
1:03:37 > 1:03:41Midlands, keeping temperatures in double figures. Further north across
1:03:41 > 1:03:46Scotland, temperatures potentially down into single figures. So,
1:03:46 > 1:03:50Thursday, for Scotland and Northern Ireland, dry for most with some
1:03:50 > 1:03:53sunshine. A few showers in the north-west. For England and Wales,
1:03:53 > 1:03:58it will be a cloudy day compared to today and there will be light and
1:03:58 > 1:04:03patchy rain affecting the likes of Lancashire, towards Humberside, and
1:04:03 > 1:04:06further south, despite the cloud, there could be a few breaks to give
1:04:06 > 1:04:11us a bit of sunshine. Again, pretty one. By Friday, that weather front
1:04:11 > 1:04:14will be moving back southwards again. As it does so, it will bring
1:04:14 > 1:04:18chilly conditions for many on Friday. It will take the cloud with
1:04:18 > 1:04:25it. We return to some sunny spells on Friday. Again, not too bad.
1:04:25 > 1:04:30Temperatures in northern areas, 11 or 12 degrees, going down by a few
1:04:30 > 1:04:33degrees in the south-east, 15 Celsius on Friday. That is about the
1:04:33 > 1:04:33average.
1:04:39 > 1:04:41Hello it's Wednesday, it's just after 10 o'clock,
1:04:41 > 1:04:42Tina Daheley in for Victoria.
1:04:42 > 1:04:45Cyber stalking is a growing - and distressing - problem.
1:04:45 > 1:04:48But victims and experts say it's not always taken seriously as a crime.
1:04:48 > 1:04:50Could a new approach and app being trialled by Bedfordshire
1:04:50 > 1:04:51police change that?
1:04:51 > 1:04:55We've had exclusive access to find out how it will work.
1:04:55 > 1:04:59We are also talking to somebody that experienced cyberstalking for two
1:04:59 > 1:05:00years.
1:05:00 > 1:05:02And the prison sentences handed down to women
1:05:02 > 1:05:04who kill their partners after years of domestic abuse.
1:05:04 > 1:05:07We speak to campaigners who want a review of how these
1:05:07 > 1:05:14defendants are treated by the law and by the courts.
1:05:14 > 1:05:17And the man behind cinematic masterpieces such as blade runner
1:05:17 > 1:05:20and The Italian Job, we will be speaking to legendary producer
1:05:20 > 1:05:23Michael Deeley, who said he stumbled into the film business more or less
1:05:23 > 1:05:28by accident.
1:05:28 > 1:05:29Good morning.
1:05:29 > 1:05:39Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of todays news.
1:05:39 > 1:05:42The Brexit Secretary has said he believes a tariff free trade deal
1:05:42 > 1:05:46with the reached with the European Union before March 20 19. David
1:05:46 > 1:05:53Davis is being questioned by MPs about the progress of negotiations
1:05:53 > 1:05:55after concerns from EU leaders that there has not been enough progress
1:05:55 > 1:05:55to start
1:05:55 > 1:05:58there has not been enough progress to start talking about trade at all.
1:05:58 > 1:06:01He was pressed by Hilary Benn on whether he thought negotiations
1:06:01 > 1:06:08would be completed by the deadline for Britain to leave.I believe your
1:06:08 > 1:06:14words were that I believe we can get a free trade and customs negotiation
1:06:14 > 1:06:19concluded in the period, before March 2019. Do you think that can be
1:06:19 > 1:06:29done in 12 months?Yes. The arguments against, I will lay them
1:06:29 > 1:06:33out again, they can be based on the free trade agreements which are very
1:06:33 > 1:06:39different from ours.The UK economy picked up speed unexpectedly in the
1:06:39 > 1:06:43last three months to September. This has increased expectations of an
1:06:43 > 1:06:48interest rate rise in the next month. Gross domestic product rose
1:06:48 > 1:06:53by 0.4% compared with 0.3% in each of the first two quarters of the
1:06:53 > 1:06:56year, according to latest figures from the Office of National
1:06:56 > 1:06:59Statistics. The services industry was the main factor behind the rise
1:06:59 > 1:07:02as well as a jump in car production.
1:07:04 > 1:07:07Some small businesses have exquisitely told this programme they
1:07:07 > 1:07:10have instructed lawyers to bring criminal proceedings against The
1:07:10 > 1:07:12Royal Bank of Scotland, alleging the bank caused them to fail. The bank
1:07:12 > 1:07:17was heavily criticised this week by a city watchdog, the Financial
1:07:17 > 1:07:21Conduct Authority, over its handling of thousands of business customers.
1:07:21 > 1:07:25RBS's global restructuring group was found to have engaged in widespread
1:07:25 > 1:07:30mistreatment of customers in some areas.
1:07:30 > 1:07:33More than half of all British women have suffered sexual harassment
1:07:33 > 1:07:35at work or their place of study, according to a survey
1:07:35 > 1:07:38by BBC Radio 5 Live.
1:07:38 > 1:07:41Nellie 70% of those questioned said they had not reported it.
1:07:42 > 1:07:44The survey of 2,000 adults also found a fifth of men have
1:07:46 > 1:07:49been sexually harassed.
1:07:49 > 1:07:51The social media giant Twitter has announced new rules about how it
1:07:51 > 1:07:52displays political adverts.
1:07:52 > 1:07:55The move follows claims that the platform was used
1:07:55 > 1:07:57to try to influence last year's US presidential election.
1:07:57 > 1:07:59Twitter's ads will now clearly show who funded them,
1:07:59 > 1:08:04how much was spent and which users are being targeted.
1:08:08 > 1:08:12That is a summary of the latest ABC News.
1:08:22 > 1:08:27Should women who kill abuses be given different sentences to other
1:08:27 > 1:08:30killers? You can get in touch throughout the morning. If you text,
1:08:30 > 1:08:44you will be charged a standard network rate. Now the sport.
1:08:44 > 1:08:47Crystal Palace were the big losers in the legaue cup last night,
1:08:47 > 1:08:50the Premier League's bottom club went down 4 1 to championship
1:08:50 > 1:08:51side Bristol City.
1:08:51 > 1:08:54Leicester and Bournemouth also made it through to the quarter finals
1:08:54 > 1:08:56As did Manchester United who are the league cup holders.
1:08:56 > 1:08:58They beat Swansea 2-0 at the Liberty Stadium.
1:08:58 > 1:09:00Jesse Lingaard scored twice, the first time he's
1:09:00 > 1:09:01done that for United.
1:09:01 > 1:09:03it was jose Mourinho's 400th game in English football,
1:09:03 > 1:09:05his first was in 2014 with Chelsea.
1:09:05 > 1:09:07Arsenal had a scare, they only beat Norwich
1:09:07 > 1:09:082-1 after extra time.
1:09:08 > 1:09:10Teenager Eddie Nketiah came off the bench and
1:09:10 > 1:09:16scored both their goals.
1:09:16 > 1:09:18The Premier League leaders Manchester City needed penalties
1:09:18 > 1:09:24to beat the Championship leaders Wolves.
1:09:24 > 1:09:27Pepe Guardiola had previously called the League Cup a waste of energy.
1:09:27 > 1:09:31Last night he had a go at the ball that they have to play
1:09:31 > 1:09:32with in the League Cup.
1:09:32 > 1:09:36Apparently it's too light.
1:09:36 > 1:09:39It is not acceptable to play with that ball in this professional game.
1:09:39 > 1:09:45It is not acceptable to that level. The players complained?All of the
1:09:45 > 1:09:51players complained, I could not play football, unfortunately for you,
1:09:51 > 1:09:58because I am a magnificent player! They all say, what is that?A couple
1:09:58 > 1:10:03more matches with that ball tonight. Spurs against West Ham, Everton had
1:10:03 > 1:10:09to Chelsea. Coming up, international football. England are the under 20s
1:10:09 > 1:10:11world champions, the under 19s European champions.
1:10:11 > 1:10:14And England take on Brazil in the semi finals of the under 17's
1:10:14 > 1:10:17World Cup at 12.30 this afternoon.
1:10:17 > 1:10:20It's live on the BBC via the red button or the BBC website.
1:10:22 > 1:10:24British Cycling says the "door is open" for former sprinter
1:10:24 > 1:10:30Jess Varnish to return to the sport.
1:10:30 > 1:10:32She was dropped from the British squad 18 months
1:10:32 > 1:10:34ago, after failing to qualify for the Rio Olympics.
1:10:34 > 1:10:36She then made allegations of bullying and sexual
1:10:36 > 1:10:39discrimination against former coach Shane Sutton.
1:10:39 > 1:10:42Although he was cleared of bullying, he quit after being found to have
1:10:42 > 1:10:48used sexist language.
1:10:48 > 1:10:50Her claims printed an independent report into the culture within
1:10:50 > 1:10:57British cycling that was highly critical of the organisation.
1:10:57 > 1:10:59England's women cricketers are getting ready for the second
1:10:59 > 1:11:01match in their Ashes series against Australia which gets
1:11:01 > 1:11:04underway early tomorrow morning our time.
1:11:04 > 1:11:08It is and must win, but they narrowly lost their first match of
1:11:08 > 1:11:12the series. They've got two more 50 over matches, including this one
1:11:12 > 1:11:16tomorrow morning. They have one Test match before three Twenty20 matches
1:11:16 > 1:11:19in a points-based series.
1:11:19 > 1:11:22England won on their last trip to Australia in 2013-14, but were
1:11:22 > 1:11:26beaten at home in 2015.
1:11:26 > 1:11:29Preparation was not ideal with having no warm up games and not able
1:11:29 > 1:11:34to get on grass so much. The same situation for the Aussies as well. I
1:11:34 > 1:11:37think we showed the other day that we were a little bit off the pace in
1:11:37 > 1:11:43terms of match readiness, the batters not getting big scores and a
1:11:43 > 1:11:46few errors in the field. Hopefully the cobwebs have been swept away and
1:11:46 > 1:11:50we are ready to go tomorrow.That is all of the sport for now. I'll be
1:11:50 > 1:11:52back with the headlines later.
1:11:54 > 1:11:57Now controversy has been brewing for some time about
1:11:57 > 1:11:59whether e-cigarettes are actually a good thing or really not.
1:11:59 > 1:12:02They do help many people to give up, but they've also been accused
1:12:02 > 1:12:04of re-normalising smoking for the younger generations.
1:12:04 > 1:12:07So, a cross-party group of MPs has begun an inquiry, and that Science
1:12:07 > 1:12:09and Technology Committee says there are "significant gaps"
1:12:09 > 1:12:17in what we know about e-cigarettes and how they're regulated.
1:12:17 > 1:12:20Well Norman Lamb MP is the chairman of that committee
1:12:20 > 1:12:24and is leading the inquiry.
1:12:24 > 1:12:26We're also joined by Professor John Britton
1:12:26 > 1:12:28of Nottingham University, who's the Director of the UK
1:12:28 > 1:12:30Centre for Tobacco & Alcohol Studies, and Louise Ross
1:12:30 > 1:12:40who is the Stop Smoking Service Manager for Leicester.
1:12:41 > 1:12:47I want to come to you first, why are you launching this inquiry?I think
1:12:47 > 1:12:54in a way, your introduction sums up the reasons. There are claims and
1:12:54 > 1:12:58counterclaims, a lot of myths out there. I think that gives an
1:12:58 > 1:13:02opportunity to get a clear view, based on the evidence, based on
1:13:02 > 1:13:08science, about what the risks are and also what are the opportunities
1:13:08 > 1:13:12are. We have a big ambition in this country, rightly so, to get people
1:13:12 > 1:13:19off smoking and to reduce smoking levels down to the minimum possible.
1:13:19 > 1:13:23I think e-cigarettes clearly play a role in that. There is a lot of
1:13:23 > 1:13:27evidence that it is significantly safer than smoking, but we also want
1:13:27 > 1:13:35to know what the long-term effects of vaping are. There is a thing
1:13:35 > 1:13:38called heat not burning, emerging onto the market which is arranged
1:13:38 > 1:13:44around heating tobacco to a high temperature rather than burning it,
1:13:44 > 1:13:50which also avoids the cancer risk. Is that an interesting opportunity
1:13:50 > 1:13:53as well? This gives a chance to give a definitive view to the public. I
1:13:53 > 1:13:58think that is really worthwhile.OK. Are you not worried this might have
1:13:58 > 1:14:03the opposite impact and put people off using e-cigarettes to quit
1:14:03 > 1:14:08smoking? Only last month, NHS Scotland stated definitively that
1:14:08 > 1:14:12e-cigarettes are definitely less harmful than smoking.I think if you
1:14:12 > 1:14:16follow the evidence, I am a very strong believer in evidence -based
1:14:16 > 1:14:22policy making. If you follow the evidence and are clear enough about
1:14:22 > 1:14:26that with people, I don't think you can go far wrong. Our own Sun has
1:14:26 > 1:14:31given up, he was a heavy smoker and he now vapes quite heavily, but I am
1:14:31 > 1:14:38delighted he has stopped smoking. We now have 2.9 million people vaping
1:14:38 > 1:14:43in this country, smoking rates are down to historic low level, about
1:14:43 > 1:14:4615.5%. This is really significant progress but we can go a lot
1:14:46 > 1:14:51further. Tobacco is still killing 79,000 people every year in England.
1:14:51 > 1:14:56So, there is a massive public health goal still to drive at.Louise, I
1:14:56 > 1:15:00will bring you in next. It is a confusing picture. People have been
1:15:00 > 1:15:03using e-cigarettes for a while and there is a lot of disagreement about
1:15:03 > 1:15:08what the risks are, whether or not you should use them, can you smoke
1:15:08 > 1:15:10inside, outside, they are not available on prescription at the
1:15:10 > 1:15:16moment. Where do you stand?Well, in Leicester City we were the first
1:15:16 > 1:15:21e-cigarette friendly stop smoking service. We discovered very early
1:15:21 > 1:15:26on, in 2014, that it really helps people to stop smoking, people who
1:15:26 > 1:15:31tried everything else. When they tried vaping, they said this has
1:15:31 > 1:15:36done it for me in a way that nothing else has been successful. We saw
1:15:36 > 1:15:41increased success rates in the first year, second and 30 as well,
1:15:41 > 1:15:49compared with traditional treatments we are big fans and confident it is
1:15:49 > 1:15:58much safer than smoking and that switching is the right thing to do.
1:15:58 > 1:16:01Do you think that is clear that most people know it is safer than
1:16:01 > 1:16:07cigarettes?No, I don't think they do and a lot of the problems are
1:16:07 > 1:16:11caused by media stories that don't give an accurate picture. We know
1:16:11 > 1:16:15talking to people that they are very frightened by the myths that go
1:16:15 > 1:16:20around. You know, I'm sure, we have talked before on this programme in
1:16:20 > 1:16:26fact about the things people are scared of. The idea of popcorn and
1:16:26 > 1:16:32formaldehyde. But without combustion, these devices are much
1:16:32 > 1:16:38safer than smoking and it's much better to switch.Where are the gaps
1:16:38 > 1:16:42in evidence? It seems worrying that people have been smoking them, I
1:16:42 > 1:16:46think it's something like 3 million people are using them in the UK but
1:16:46 > 1:16:52there are gaps in knowledge. Where are the gaps in knowledge?The main
1:16:52 > 1:16:58gaps are in understanding how safe or otherwise the vapours the
1:16:58 > 1:17:02different products produced are. You have a range of products on the
1:17:02 > 1:17:07market, some of them producing nicotine in a carrier and little
1:17:07 > 1:17:13else, some solutions generating flavoured vapour and we do know that
1:17:13 > 1:17:17the more components that going into PE liquid, the greater the mix of
1:17:17 > 1:17:23toxins in their paper and it would be helpful to know where different
1:17:23 > 1:17:28products lie on that spectrum so that consumers can be guided to be
1:17:28 > 1:17:33less rather than be more hazardous ones. Having said all that, I would
1:17:33 > 1:17:40reiterate what Bob Louise and Norman Lamb have said. These products are
1:17:40 > 1:17:45unquestionably less harmful than smoking. We need to capture that
1:17:45 > 1:17:50benefit for society. Where we need to look carefully is at what we can
1:17:50 > 1:17:55do to make sure that Hamas and happening that could be avoided by
1:17:55 > 1:18:00some simple controls or legislation or transparency over what is in the
1:18:00 > 1:18:03product at this stage.What do you think the most likely outcome of
1:18:03 > 1:18:08this enquiry will be?I think the enquiry will find that electronic
1:18:08 > 1:18:11cigarettes have contributed to a near doubling at the rate of decline
1:18:11 > 1:18:18in smoking in the United Kingdom over the last three years, that they
1:18:18 > 1:18:21are not contributing to any significant uptake of smoking in
1:18:21 > 1:18:28young people, that the content of the vapour carries certain things
1:18:28 > 1:18:31that justify concern over long-term health risks and perhaps need to be
1:18:31 > 1:18:38looked at and in some way controlled or reduced and I think the inclusion
1:18:38 > 1:18:43of heat not burn products is also a very important product because there
1:18:43 > 1:18:47is a product category we know less about but it would appear from early
1:18:47 > 1:18:52day care that these products are slightly further up the risk
1:18:52 > 1:18:55spectrum from electronic cigarettes to tobacco cigarettes. All the
1:18:55 > 1:18:59permission we have on those products today, almost all of it comes from
1:18:59 > 1:19:05the tobacco industry and unfortunately none of that can be
1:19:05 > 1:19:09trusted.Norman, I want to come to you again. If at the end of this
1:19:09 > 1:19:13enquiry we hear conclusive evidence that these are a positive tool and
1:19:13 > 1:19:18can bring down the numbers of people smoking dramatically, would you back
1:19:18 > 1:19:24public funding for e-cigarettes? Well, let's follow the evidence.
1:19:24 > 1:19:31Listening to Louise talk about how her unit has been able to shift
1:19:31 > 1:19:34large numbers of people of smoking and onto e-cigarettes, this is
1:19:34 > 1:19:40saving lives. And if this is the case and if the evidence confirms
1:19:40 > 1:19:44this, then we should be able to follow that evidence in terms of
1:19:44 > 1:19:49public funding. I think also, as John has said, we also need to
1:19:49 > 1:19:53understand the evidence relating to heat not burn as well. It's an
1:19:53 > 1:19:56interesting new development. There are claims coming out of Japan where
1:19:56 > 1:20:01it has been developed significantly that there is a higher transfer rate
1:20:01 > 1:20:07of people from smoking to heat not burn products but what is the
1:20:07 > 1:20:13independent evidence showing? That is what we have got to establish.
1:20:13 > 1:20:18This is a great opportunity to kill the myths and to get important
1:20:18 > 1:20:20public information out there to people which could literally save
1:20:20 > 1:20:26lives.Louise, what do you hope will happen at the end of this enquiry?I
1:20:26 > 1:20:30would certainly like to see a lot of the myths cleared up, like the fact
1:20:30 > 1:20:36that they ping does not we normalise smoking. It normalises gaping,
1:20:36 > 1:20:39making it more normal to use and e-cigarettes. That is what I would
1:20:39 > 1:20:43like to see. I am not a great enthusiast for prescribed
1:20:43 > 1:20:48e-cigarettes because I believe they are a consumer product and it is the
1:20:48 > 1:20:52diversity, you know, the different flavours, the looks of the devices
1:20:52 > 1:20:58that are so appealing to people. So our service would give a free sample
1:20:58 > 1:21:01as a starter to some people who couldn't afford to get started on a
1:21:01 > 1:21:05device they have bought themselves, but after that, they are happy to
1:21:05 > 1:21:09buy their own stuff. They were buying their cigarettes and they are
1:21:09 > 1:21:13happy to buy their own e-cigarettes as well.All right, thank you all
1:21:13 > 1:21:18very much indeed. You have been getting in touch on this story.
1:21:18 > 1:21:22Anthony says e-cigarettes contain nicotine, that is why people use
1:21:22 > 1:21:31them. Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs known to man. That
1:21:31 > 1:21:33is why people smoke, whether it is ordinary cigarettes or e-cigarettes.
1:21:33 > 1:21:36They are addicted. Nicotine is highly dangerous to have, affecting
1:21:36 > 1:21:42the heart and the dangers are the same whether from normal cigarettes
1:21:42 > 1:21:47or e-cigarettes. We have also had an e-mail from an old saying, the
1:21:47 > 1:21:51government wants to ban this product because they are losing revenue.
1:21:51 > 1:21:54Still to come, we'll have the latest from the trial of an Army fitness
1:21:54 > 1:21:57instructor who's accused of trying to kill his wife by sabotaging her
1:21:57 > 1:21:59parachute and causing a gas leak at home.
1:21:59 > 1:22:02Bedfordshire Police and the National Centre
1:22:02 > 1:22:04for Cyberstalking Research are putting together
1:22:04 > 1:22:07a three-step programme to help victims from when they go
1:22:07 > 1:22:09to report their experience, right through to
1:22:09 > 1:22:12rehabilitating the offender.
1:22:12 > 1:22:15We bought you our reporter Chi Chi Izundu's film a little
1:22:15 > 1:22:16earlier, here's a short extract.
1:22:26 > 1:22:33The relationship for the first year was really good.
1:22:33 > 1:22:34We had lots of fun.
1:22:34 > 1:22:35He met my family.
1:22:35 > 1:22:38And everything appeared as if it was going really well.
1:22:38 > 1:22:48And then slowly things started to deteriorate and
1:22:52 > 1:22:57He posted on social media, he advertised that I had sexually
1:22:57 > 1:23:01transmitted infections, which was untrue, he advertised that I had
1:23:01 > 1:23:08HIV, which was untrue. Back in July, the police were heavily criticised
1:23:08 > 1:23:10by the Inspectorate of Constabulary and the Crown Prosecution Service is
1:23:10 > 1:23:16inspectorate, with a report finding too many cases were poorly run and
1:23:16 > 1:23:20failed to give victims legal protection, leaving them at risk.I
1:23:20 > 1:23:24was getting comments from the police officers like, he's run a nice
1:23:24 > 1:23:28family, can't you ignore the Facebook stuff, ask your friends not
1:23:28 > 1:23:33to show it to you any more? Advising me not to use social media. That was
1:23:33 > 1:23:38the advice I got from the police. About 80% of people after break-ups
1:23:38 > 1:23:44still check into your account, even if they have been blocked, to see
1:23:44 > 1:23:51what you are up to.Not acceptable, that is what was said, with victim
1:23:51 > 1:23:57blaming and the number of prosecutions criticised. But Doctor
1:23:57 > 1:24:02Short is working on a three step programme to try to change this.
1:24:02 > 1:24:05Firstly, front line officers will get a risk assessment at the first
1:24:05 > 1:24:14stage of the complaint. Secondly, helping victims record abuse with an
1:24:14 > 1:24:20app and thirdly, looking at risk. Victims deemed as medium risk will
1:24:20 > 1:24:24have to get a special login code before they are given access to the
1:24:24 > 1:24:28app and they will only get that if front line officers think they
1:24:28 > 1:24:32should.So, evidence like phone calls, screenshots, videos, sound
1:24:32 > 1:24:38recordings...The app also catches the meta data so the information or
1:24:38 > 1:24:43coding behind the messages, websites and videos can all be used to help
1:24:43 > 1:24:47police track down the offender.And we can start recording the screen
1:24:47 > 1:24:50and then we can navigate away from the Apple and we are recording
1:24:50 > 1:24:56everything on-screen.Once convicted, rehabilitation should
1:24:56 > 1:25:00also be about treatment of the behaviour, according to the police.
1:25:00 > 1:25:04We can address why they are committing the crimes, try to get to
1:25:04 > 1:25:06the bottom of understanding be massive impact their crimes have on
1:25:06 > 1:25:12their victims.The developments are still being trialled and it will
1:25:12 > 1:25:16take time to see whether this all helps victims of cyberstalking and
1:25:16 > 1:25:19increases conviction rates.
1:25:19 > 1:25:24Now we can speak to Alexis Bowater who experienced being
1:25:24 > 1:25:25cyber-stalked for two years, Rachel Griffin
1:25:25 > 1:25:27from the Suzy Lamplugh Trust which runs a national
1:25:27 > 1:25:30stalking helpline and Katy Bourne, the Police and Crime Commissioner
1:25:30 > 1:25:32for Sussex who is trying to improve her force's
1:25:32 > 1:25:38response and has herself experienced cyber stalking.
1:25:38 > 1:25:42Alexis, I want to come to you first of all. Can you tell us what
1:25:42 > 1:25:52happened to you?So, I was either stalked over two years during both
1:25:52 > 1:25:57of my pregnancies, so a period of extreme vulnerability for me. I was
1:25:57 > 1:26:05being persecuted by an unknown assailant, basically.When you say
1:26:05 > 1:26:11you were targeted, how where you targeted?So, I was working in a
1:26:11 > 1:26:15newsroom at the time and threats were coming into the newsroom which
1:26:15 > 1:26:19were escalating in violence and threats of what was going to be done
1:26:19 > 1:26:23to me. It's quite difficult to talk about what the threats were at this
1:26:23 > 1:26:30time of the morning because they were very extreme, but eventually
1:26:30 > 1:26:34the police did catch him and he was sent to prison, well, he was
1:26:34 > 1:26:39sentenced to four years and one month which at the time was the
1:26:39 > 1:26:43longest sentence for pure cyberstalking that had been handed
1:26:43 > 1:26:48down in this country.I know you can't go into the detail of what
1:26:48 > 1:26:53those messages were, but what form where they sent to you in? Whether
1:26:53 > 1:26:59e-mails, texts, on social media? And how did it start? Can you talk me
1:26:59 > 1:27:03through the journey of when it came to you contacting the police, at
1:27:03 > 1:27:10what point was that?OK, so this was ten years ago, so it was all e-mail.
1:27:10 > 1:27:16These were the days when, you know, there weren't Apple phones and the
1:27:16 > 1:27:21iPad hadn't been invented. But the impact of cyberstalking is the same,
1:27:21 > 1:27:27whatever method is used. It's an insidious, creeping crime which is
1:27:27 > 1:27:30really psychological. It makes you feel as if you are under threat the
1:27:30 > 1:27:38whole time and it makes the problem everybody is. You are almost
1:27:38 > 1:27:44instantaneously in a state of hyper vigilant Andy King can attack is
1:27:44 > 1:27:52inevitable but you don't know where or when or who buy. So that is what
1:27:52 > 1:27:55happens for every single cyberstalking victim. They will all
1:27:55 > 1:28:00feel that. One of the problems obviously if that technology has
1:28:00 > 1:28:04come on and you and I and everybody else is really enjoying the way that
1:28:04 > 1:28:08we can now communicate with each other but you can't get away from
1:28:08 > 1:28:12cyberstalking any more. You know, your cyber stalker is in your
1:28:12 > 1:28:17pocket. It is not as if you can close the door on it, it's not as if
1:28:17 > 1:28:20you can run away from it. Cyberstalking means that it's
1:28:20 > 1:28:23everywhere and if you don't know who it is who's doing it to you, it
1:28:23 > 1:28:27means it's everyone.Were the police sympathetic when he first approached
1:28:27 > 1:28:33them?Yes, so, I had been a broadcast journalist for a long
1:28:33 > 1:28:38time. I was the main anchor for a television programme at the time and
1:28:38 > 1:28:42this was the third stalker I had had. Immediately be stalking
1:28:42 > 1:28:48behaviour began, we recognised it straightaway and I reported it
1:28:48 > 1:28:53instantaneously to the police. But it was obvious from early on that we
1:28:53 > 1:28:57were in a targeting scenario. His messages were not friendly in any
1:28:57 > 1:29:01way whatsoever. They were threatening, they were menacing,
1:29:01 > 1:29:08they were vile and violent and they escalated in the type of threat that
1:29:08 > 1:29:14they made.OK, thank you for now. Katie, Alexis feels like she's had a
1:29:14 > 1:29:18good experience from the police but we also need to bear in mind that
1:29:18 > 1:29:22she has a public profile and is a broadcast journalist. We know that
1:29:22 > 1:29:27women in Hastings who was stalked for ten years has talked about how
1:29:27 > 1:29:31they beat the response was that she got from officers. What are you
1:29:31 > 1:29:36doing to counter that?I have huge sympathy for what Alexis has been
1:29:36 > 1:29:43through and I have similar experiences, nearly five years of
1:29:43 > 1:29:47cyberstalking which went into physical stalking as well, being
1:29:47 > 1:29:53filmed and so one so we had to go down a civil injunction route, so
1:29:53 > 1:29:57it's been quite serious. Until you've been through it, everything
1:29:57 > 1:30:02she was saying absolutely rings true with me. If Alexis was being really
1:30:02 > 1:30:06honest, she'd probably say the police response was pretty up and
1:30:06 > 1:30:11down. They are beginning to realise what this means to victims. But it's
1:30:11 > 1:30:16still very bitty and I think the police response nationally is
1:30:16 > 1:30:20problematic. Certainly in Sussex, I am really focused on harassment and
1:30:20 > 1:30:28stalking. We know from locally where I have funded Veritas Justice, a
1:30:28 > 1:30:33stalking help agency locally for victims, they say that there is a
1:30:33 > 1:30:37huge amount of cyberstalking in some of their very dangerous cases as
1:30:37 > 1:30:44well. So where it starts on cyber, it transcends into life as well. But
1:30:44 > 1:30:46the police response is still problematic and I have a focus on
1:30:46 > 1:30:49that in Sussex.
1:30:49 > 1:30:55Rachel, you run a stalking helpline. We were talking about e-mail, that
1:30:55 > 1:31:01wasn't around in her time, but are you seeing an increase in
1:31:01 > 1:31:05cyberstalking because of prolific use of social media?Yes, some
1:31:05 > 1:31:09research from last year showed the proportion of people, the proportion
1:31:09 > 1:31:13of victims of stalking whom were stalked solely online has about the
1:31:13 > 1:31:20last ten years. It is a great proportion of what we are seeing.
1:31:20 > 1:31:24Most people we talk to on the helpline are stalked by a range of
1:31:24 > 1:31:27different means. Most of them are stalked by some kind of online means
1:31:27 > 1:31:34as well as off-line.What needs to change when it comes to people's
1:31:34 > 1:31:37attitudes? Like you said, we have heard from people that will wait
1:31:37 > 1:31:41until it is so bad and severe that they receive hundreds of messages,
1:31:41 > 1:31:47they are clearly very distressed. If they then have a bad experience when
1:31:47 > 1:31:53a contact the police, it is not helpful for anybody?One of the
1:31:53 > 1:31:56first things we say to people on the national stalking helpline is that
1:31:56 > 1:31:59yes, this is stalking and you don't have to put up with it. Many people
1:31:59 > 1:32:05will call and say, I'm not sure if it is something, and then they will
1:32:05 > 1:32:10list experience is very reminiscent of those described by Alexis. As a
1:32:10 > 1:32:14society, we need to challenge that it is seen as a joke or flattering.
1:32:14 > 1:32:18It is not funny to talk about stalking someone on Facebook, it can
1:32:18 > 1:32:24be an indicator of something very sinister.To add to that, Alexis is
1:32:24 > 1:32:27in public life, as am I and many members of Parliament, local
1:32:27 > 1:32:31councillors and so on. I have had women that our chief executives of
1:32:31 > 1:32:34companies in tears down the phone because they are not being listened
1:32:34 > 1:32:39to. This is really serious. And it is not just the police response
1:32:39 > 1:32:43which needs to be tightened up, it is everybody's issue.
1:32:48 > 1:32:51Still to come, prison sentences handed down to women who kill their
1:32:51 > 1:32:54partners after years of domestic abuse. We speak to campaigners that
1:32:54 > 1:32:57want a review of how these defendants are treated by the law
1:32:57 > 1:33:03and by the courts. And the man behind the cult classics. We speak
1:33:03 > 1:33:05to legendary producer Michael Deeley, who says he stumbled into
1:33:05 > 1:33:10the film business more or less by accident.
1:33:12 > 1:33:15Time to get the latest news.
1:33:19 > 1:33:23The UK economy had higher than expected growth in the three months
1:33:23 > 1:33:26to September, increasing the chances of a rise in interest rates in
1:33:26 > 1:33:31November. Gross domestic product rose by 0.4%, compared with 0.3% in
1:33:31 > 1:33:37each of the first two quarters of the year, according to figures from
1:33:37 > 1:33:40the Office of National Statistics. The financial markets are now
1:33:40 > 1:33:43indicating an 84% probability that rates will rise from the current
1:33:43 > 1:33:51record low of 0.25%.
1:33:52 > 1:33:55Some small businesses have exclusively told this programme they
1:33:55 > 1:33:58have instructed lawyers to bring criminal proceedings against The
1:33:58 > 1:34:01Royal Bank of Scotland, alleging the bank caused them to fail. The bank
1:34:01 > 1:34:05was heavily criticised this week by the city watchdog the Financial
1:34:05 > 1:34:10Conduct Authority over its handling of thousands of business customers.
1:34:10 > 1:34:13RBS's global restructuring group was found to have engaged in widespread
1:34:13 > 1:34:19mistreatment of customers in some areas. The Brexit Secretary has said
1:34:19 > 1:34:22he believes a tariff free trade deal will be reached with the European
1:34:22 > 1:34:26Union before March 20 19. David Davis was answering questions from
1:34:26 > 1:34:30MPs on the Brexit committee about the progress of negotiations with
1:34:30 > 1:34:33the EU. European Union leaders have expressed concern that has not been
1:34:33 > 1:34:39enough progress to start talking about trade. MPs are beginning an
1:34:39 > 1:34:42inquiry into e-cigarettes amid concerns there are significant gaps
1:34:42 > 1:34:46in what is known about them and how they are regulated.
1:34:46 > 1:34:48The science and technology committee will look at their effectiveness
1:34:48 > 1:34:50in stopping smoking and their impact on health.
1:34:50 > 1:34:53Nearly three million people in the UK now vape regularly -
1:34:53 > 1:34:55four times more than in 2012.
1:34:55 > 1:34:57An electrician from Stirling - who was facing three months
1:34:57 > 1:35:00in prison in Dubai for public indecency - has spoken of his relief
1:35:00 > 1:35:02at returning home to the UK.
1:35:02 > 1:35:03Jamie Harron was sentenced for touching a man's
1:35:03 > 1:35:06hip in a crowded bar, but freed after Dubai's
1:35:06 > 1:35:09ruler intervened.
1:35:15 > 1:35:21That is a summary of the latest BBC News.
1:35:21 > 1:35:25Lets get some sport.
1:35:25 > 1:35:28Crystal Palace were the big losers in the League Cup last night.
1:35:28 > 1:35:32They were knocked out of the League Cup by Bristol city. Arsenal needed
1:35:32 > 1:35:36extra time to get past Norwich. Manchester City beat Championship
1:35:36 > 1:35:43leaders Wolves on penalties.
1:35:43 > 1:35:44Manchester United are the League Cup holders.
1:35:44 > 1:35:49They beat Swansea 2-0 at the Liberty stadium.
1:35:49 > 1:35:52Three matches in the Scottish premiership. Hibs were the only
1:35:52 > 1:35:55winners on the night. 1-0 against Hearts. Simon Murray was the
1:35:55 > 1:36:03goal-scorer.
1:36:03 > 1:36:06British Cycling says the "door is open" for former sprinter
1:36:06 > 1:36:08Jess Varnish to return to the sport.
1:36:08 > 1:36:10She was dropped from the British squad 18 months
1:36:10 > 1:36:12ago, after failing to qualify for the Rio Olympics.
1:36:12 > 1:36:14She then made allegations of bullying and sexual
1:36:14 > 1:36:16discrimination against former coach Shane Sutton.
1:36:16 > 1:36:19Although he was cleared of bullying, he quit after being found to have
1:36:19 > 1:36:20used sexist language.
1:36:20 > 1:36:22England's women cricketers are getting ready for the second
1:36:22 > 1:36:24match in their Ashes series against Australia which gets
1:36:24 > 1:36:26underway early tomorrow morning our time.
1:36:26 > 1:36:28They narrowly lost their first match. That is all of the sport for
1:36:28 > 1:36:30now. I'll be back just after 11 o'clock.
1:36:30 > 1:36:38Street the wife of an army said Finnis and structure -- fitness
1:36:38 > 1:36:42instructor accused of trying to kill her by sabotaging her parachute has
1:36:42 > 1:36:46testified in court. She suffered serious injuries from a 4000 foot
1:36:46 > 1:36:52fall in April 20 15. Her parachute did not open. Her husband, Emile
1:36:52 > 1:36:57Cilliers, denies charges of attempted murder. Andy Moore is
1:36:57 > 1:37:06following the case.As you said, Victoria Cilliers sustained serious
1:37:06 > 1:37:10injuries in that fall. She broke her leg, collarbone. She only survived
1:37:10 > 1:37:13because of her petite stature and the fact that she landed in a
1:37:13 > 1:37:18recently ploughed field. Despite the injuries, she walked into the
1:37:18 > 1:37:21courtroom unaided, no support, no creatures. She was warned that she
1:37:21 > 1:37:26might be giving evidence for some hours, but she said she wished to
1:37:26 > 1:37:31remain standing. She started off by speaking about her love of
1:37:31 > 1:37:35parachuting. She said she was on a two week course with the Army. Once
1:37:35 > 1:37:39she had jumped, she was hooked, she said and it became an obsession, an
1:37:39 > 1:37:45addiction not dissimilar to drugs. After that, every holiday, every
1:37:45 > 1:37:48weekend for 15 years, she was out parachuting. It has been alleged in
1:37:48 > 1:37:53court that Emile Cilliers, her husband, was having two extramarital
1:37:53 > 1:37:58affairs and that he was trying to claim on his dead wife's insurance
1:37:58 > 1:38:03policy. She has been speaking in the last few minutes about that and she
1:38:03 > 1:38:08said by November 2014 she was asked about the state of their marriage
1:38:08 > 1:38:11and she said that cracks were starting to show and she had
1:38:11 > 1:38:17suspicions that he was having an affair. Victoria Cilliers has been
1:38:17 > 1:38:20giving evidence for about half an hour. She is expected to give
1:38:20 > 1:38:24evidence all day in court. This trial has been going for several
1:38:24 > 1:38:29weeks and it is expected to last several weeks longer. Emile Cilliers
1:38:29 > 1:38:31denies two counts of attempted murder.
1:38:35 > 1:38:3825 years ago Justice for Women began a campaign to help women
1:38:38 > 1:38:39who kill their violent partners in self-defence.
1:38:39 > 1:38:41They campaigned to free Sara Thornton, Kiranjit Ahluwalia
1:38:41 > 1:38:43and Amelia Rossiter, three women had been
1:38:43 > 1:38:47convicted of murder whilst resisting male violence.
1:38:47 > 1:38:49All three successfully appealed their murder convictions
1:38:49 > 1:38:51and their cases resulted in changes to the law on provocation
1:38:51 > 1:38:58and a greater awareness of domestic violence.
1:38:58 > 1:39:00Since then, Justice for Women have supported many more significant
1:39:00 > 1:39:03cases at the Court of Appeal.
1:39:03 > 1:39:06Now, they say women who have fought back out of fear and desperation
1:39:06 > 1:39:13are still being unjustly convicted of the murder of their abusers.
1:39:15 > 1:39:18We can now speak to Harriet Wistrich, a solicitor who is acting
1:39:18 > 1:39:20for women currently imprisoned for killing their partners.
1:39:20 > 1:39:23She also set up the Justice for Women campaign group.
1:39:23 > 1:39:24We can also speak to Heather Savage.
1:39:30 > 1:39:35Baroness Helena Kennedy is a leading social justice barrister and has
1:39:35 > 1:39:40campaigned and a half of women who suffer the mystic violence. How much
1:39:40 > 1:39:46progress has been made? It has been 25 years since Justice For Women has
1:39:46 > 1:39:50been established, where are we now? Things seem to move forward and then
1:39:50 > 1:39:54they moved backwards again. In the 90s, when we first took up the
1:39:54 > 1:39:59campaigns, there were changes in the law as a result of the Appeal Court
1:39:59 > 1:40:03making changes, and there was a greater awareness. That seemed to
1:40:03 > 1:40:07result, for a while, in less convictions and in people
1:40:07 > 1:40:11understanding what might lead somebody in very unusual and extreme
1:40:11 > 1:40:16circumstances to kill somebody who had been their abuser. Things go
1:40:16 > 1:40:20backwards again. We still have the same problems arising again and
1:40:20 > 1:40:27again, sometimes in different forms. Now, 25 years on, we are still
1:40:27 > 1:40:31seeing women convicted of murder in circumstances where either they have
1:40:31 > 1:40:35killed really out of fear of serious violence or having been subjected to
1:40:35 > 1:40:41many years of coercive control, and the courts and the legal system
1:40:41 > 1:40:46still don't seem to be able to mitigate or understand the
1:40:46 > 1:40:50mitigation of those killings. Therefore, those women are being
1:40:50 > 1:40:53convicted of murder where they should at least be convicted of
1:40:53 > 1:40:56manslaughter, which would mean they would not get an automatic life
1:40:56 > 1:41:03sentence.Helena, good morning. Is the problem here people's attitudes
1:41:03 > 1:41:07or the law itself is not going far enough?It is really a combination
1:41:07 > 1:41:13of both. You have to remember that the law was made for a very long
1:41:13 > 1:41:17time, and until now, there has been very few women in the senior levels
1:41:17 > 1:41:20of the law. It has been made by men. From a male perspective. It also
1:41:20 > 1:41:24doesn't quite work for women. That has certainly been true in the
1:41:24 > 1:41:27homicide cases where a battered woman has ended up killing her
1:41:27 > 1:41:33partner who has abused her for years. We're still working on trying
1:41:33 > 1:41:37to get the law to really embrace the ways in which women's lives might be
1:41:37 > 1:41:42different, and the responses to long-term violence might lead to
1:41:42 > 1:41:48taking an act of violence against an abuser. So, what happens is that
1:41:48 > 1:41:54suddenly there is a great upsurge. We think we have made the change and
1:41:54 > 1:42:01we get some change in law, but the older rolls back into place again.
1:42:01 > 1:42:07New generations become judges and they have not been trained in it or
1:42:07 > 1:42:10socialised to understand the issues. They have not had the kind of
1:42:10 > 1:42:13judicial training that I think is necessary, continuously, on these
1:42:13 > 1:42:19issues. What we find is that we move the bus along on women in the law
1:42:19 > 1:42:24and then we find that it actually goes back again. So we move forward
1:42:24 > 1:42:27and then go back. That is not to say that we have not seen incremental
1:42:27 > 1:42:31change over the last 25 years, we have. We have managed, with Harriet
1:42:31 > 1:42:37and other women campaigning on these issues, but we still have a systemic
1:42:37 > 1:42:40problem inside the law and it is partly to do with the law itself,
1:42:40 > 1:42:47partly to do attitudes.I wanted to bring in Heather Savage. In 2014,
1:42:47 > 1:42:50her friend was jailed for life after being convicted of murdering her
1:42:50 > 1:42:51partner.
1:42:51 > 1:42:53Campaigners feel his history of domestic violence
1:42:53 > 1:42:59towards her wasn't taken into account at the trial.
1:42:59 > 1:43:02Thank you for joining us. Can you tell us more about what happened
1:43:02 > 1:43:09with Fareissia?The relationship between both of them was fine at
1:43:09 > 1:43:15first. They have children. A bit longer down the line it started to
1:43:15 > 1:43:23get worse, argument and fighting, between both of them. Later, they
1:43:23 > 1:43:28found out he was supposed to have another child to somebody else. So
1:43:28 > 1:43:34more arguments occurred. It got worse. At this time, Fareissia
1:43:34 > 1:43:39didn't want anyone to know about it, knee has her best friend, I knew.
1:43:39 > 1:43:43When you are in that situation, it was either I go and tell somebody
1:43:43 > 1:43:46and she loses my trust, because I know that she would have got back
1:43:46 > 1:43:49with him and it would have got worse, or stay there as a friend and
1:43:49 > 1:43:56let her confide in me.How devastating was it for you when she
1:43:56 > 1:44:01was convicted for 13 years and just 22 years old?I felt like there was
1:44:01 > 1:44:06part of me missing because we had grown up together, since the age of
1:44:06 > 1:44:10four, as best friends. We are practically like sisters. I still
1:44:10 > 1:44:14feel part of me is missing, because she is not here.How old are her
1:44:14 > 1:44:19children and how have they been since?Four and five, and it is very
1:44:19 > 1:44:23difficult dealing with them, because both parents are not present at the
1:44:23 > 1:44:32moment, I am classed as their aunt, I can care for them but not give
1:44:32 > 1:44:37them the love that they would get from their mother.Do you speak to
1:44:37 > 1:44:41Fareissia now, how is she? What did she say to you?She is OK. Seeing
1:44:41 > 1:44:45her, I know she is not dealing with this. She claims she still loves
1:44:45 > 1:44:51him. I can see there is no doubt about it that she still loves him.
1:44:51 > 1:44:55But it is still hurting her. I know for a fact that she is not the same
1:44:55 > 1:45:01person as she used to be because of it all.What types of stories did
1:45:01 > 1:45:07she tell you about how violent her partner was?There were times when
1:45:07 > 1:45:15she told me that... When I found out myself, basically, I had seen her
1:45:15 > 1:45:20with a black eye. I said, how did you get that? She told me that the
1:45:20 > 1:45:24baby through the bottle at her. I said, a bottle is not going to make
1:45:24 > 1:45:27your high black like that. She changed her story that she hit it on
1:45:27 > 1:45:37the oven. I said, the open was too low.
1:45:37 > 1:45:44Do you think that his history was taken into account in court?No, I
1:45:44 > 1:45:57think the whole case, the whole trial, it wasn't taken into account.
1:45:57 > 1:46:01They never took the psychological report into account because she was
1:46:01 > 1:46:06going through a lot of trauma at the time.I want to get Harriet to
1:46:06 > 1:46:16respond to what you are hearing. Well, I am Fareissia's solicitor and
1:46:16 > 1:46:20we are working on an appeal to her case. What is interesting at this
1:46:20 > 1:46:25time with people talking out about sexual abuse and harassment, one of
1:46:25 > 1:46:28the things in Fareissia's case and many other women I have worked with
1:46:28 > 1:46:33over the years is that the one thing they don't talk about is the sexual
1:46:33 > 1:46:37violence and sometimes that's the worst thing. And it was very, very
1:46:37 > 1:46:42serious and not only was she not able to talk about it, and it has
1:46:42 > 1:46:46taken a long time and working very closely with counselling and support
1:46:46 > 1:46:50to get her to feel confident to talk about it, but also that then shows
1:46:50 > 1:46:55how psychiatrically they are affected by the controlling and
1:46:55 > 1:46:59violent behaviour and how that then impacts on the way in which they
1:46:59 > 1:47:03respond to threats of violence, which is very, very relevant. Until
1:47:03 > 1:47:11women are able to talk out -- to speak about and talk about those
1:47:11 > 1:47:16experiences and we say, no, then this is going to continue. This is a
1:47:16 > 1:47:21very good example.I want to get a final word in with Palin because you
1:47:21 > 1:47:25got the law changed with regards to provocation. What do you want to
1:47:25 > 1:47:35happen next?I think one of them is about, judges discretion is very
1:47:35 > 1:47:39important and we have seen an erosion of the flexibility that
1:47:39 > 1:47:43judges have in what they can do with people convicted of serious offences
1:47:43 > 1:47:47like murder and manslaughter. Murder carries a mandatory life sentence
1:47:47 > 1:47:57and the judge can say what the minimum can be. I think we should be
1:47:57 > 1:48:00revisiting that, with more flexibility for judges in relation
1:48:00 > 1:48:04to how they can sentence when there is a background like this. Really,
1:48:04 > 1:48:09we have seen an escalation in sentences generally and it has hit
1:48:09 > 1:48:13on women, two, and sometimes when history is told, it is not having
1:48:13 > 1:48:17enough impact on the court and we should be revisiting this business
1:48:17 > 1:48:20of how women are being sentenced and that is one of the serious issues
1:48:20 > 1:48:25here. I agree with Harriet. Women don't talk about the sexual nature
1:48:25 > 1:48:28of the abuse they experience. Women have been silenced for too long
1:48:28 > 1:48:32about the way in which they are abused and we have to have the
1:48:32 > 1:48:37courts much more sensitive to the experience of women if we are going
1:48:37 > 1:48:46to see justice.Thank you all very much for joining us today. Still to
1:48:46 > 1:48:50come, how reality TV star Miley Simpson has just been found to fall
1:48:50 > 1:48:58foul of advertising standards with social media.
1:48:58 > 1:49:01Michael Deeley might not be a name you instantly recognise
1:49:01 > 1:49:04but when I say Blade Runner, The Italian Job, The Deer Hunter,
1:49:04 > 1:49:06you'll realise that my next guest is a bit of legend
1:49:06 > 1:49:07in Hollywood circles.
1:49:07 > 1:49:10He's produced some of the biggest film cult classics and worked
1:49:10 > 1:49:12with some of the biggest names in the business from
1:49:12 > 1:49:14Robert De Niro to David Bowie.
1:49:14 > 1:49:16He also landed himself an Oscar in the process.
1:49:16 > 1:49:19Now he's got a book out about his amazing career and we'll
1:49:19 > 1:49:23be talking to him in a moment, but first let's watch a few of his
1:49:23 > 1:49:24cinematic masterpieces.
1:49:24 > 1:49:27It seems you feel our work is little benefit to the public.
1:49:27 > 1:49:28Replicants are like any other machine.
1:49:28 > 1:49:30They are either a benefit or a hazard.
1:49:30 > 1:49:32If they are a benefit, it's not my problem.
1:49:39 > 1:49:41Hang on a minute, lads.
1:49:41 > 1:49:44I've got a great idea.
1:49:47 > 1:49:53OK.
1:50:00 > 1:50:04Michael Deeley is with me now. Very good to see you. What was it like
1:50:04 > 1:50:12watching your best bits back?Always a joy, really.You have done so many
1:50:12 > 1:50:16things, you have produced these big hits, had a long career. Highlights
1:50:16 > 1:50:23for you?Oscar night. Actually to get an Oscar is pretty nice.Where
1:50:23 > 1:50:29is that Oscar? Where is it in your house?It is at home, fairly high up
1:50:29 > 1:50:40on a shelf. I can see it, it is not particularly believable. Hard to
1:50:40 > 1:50:51steal.When you think back to Oscar night, how do you feel?Well, it was
1:50:51 > 1:50:57quite a long time to wait because the Best picture Oscar is the last
1:50:57 > 1:51:01one of the night. It is a nice way to spend the evening, I suppose, if
1:51:01 > 1:51:08you win.Why did you decide to write a book about your career, your life?
1:51:08 > 1:51:11Well, I was helping Matthew Field write his early book about The
1:51:11 > 1:51:16Italian Job and talking a lot about things that had happened on
1:51:16 > 1:51:20different boobies and he said, you should write a book and I said, I
1:51:20 > 1:51:28can't write a book, I can't even type. -- things that had happened on
1:51:28 > 1:51:35different movies.For people who don't know, what does working in
1:51:35 > 1:51:42film involve for a producer?It involves a lot of things but is it
1:51:42 > 1:51:48synced way of putting it is that a producer causes a film to be made.
1:51:48 > 1:51:56How does that happen?You find the material, the cast, the director,
1:51:56 > 1:52:01the money and then you shoot it.You have produced classics like The
1:52:01 > 1:52:06Italian Job. When you are producing films, did you know it would go on
1:52:06 > 1:52:12to become the heat it is now, because at the time, it wasn't a big
1:52:12 > 1:52:19smash?No, that is perfectly true. It wasn't what it became. That
1:52:19 > 1:52:27applies to two of my pictures. When it came out, it was recognised as
1:52:27 > 1:52:36pretty amazing in a way, but really, like the world, and The Deer Hunter
1:52:36 > 1:52:39was another one at the time because it was a tough subject.And
1:52:39 > 1:52:47criticise that the time.Oh, everything is criticised.Why? That
1:52:47 > 1:52:55is the film you won the Oscar Bob. Well, in that particular case, I was
1:52:55 > 1:53:00criticised before I even made it. Firstly, as an Englishman I couldn't
1:53:00 > 1:53:03know about Vietnam, secondly, the Americans didn't want to be reminded
1:53:03 > 1:53:09about Vietnam.So, Blade Runner, we have Blade Runner because of you.
1:53:09 > 1:53:13What do you make of the new version if you have seen it or read the
1:53:13 > 1:53:19reviews or the fact it was even made in the first place in 2017?Yes, I
1:53:19 > 1:53:24am not very fond of the calls. I had had it done to me before, they did
1:53:24 > 1:53:31one on The Italian Job which I thought was dreadful.Why?It didn't
1:53:31 > 1:53:39have any of the same spirit. It wasn't amusing. Which was the away
1:53:39 > 1:53:43-- the way the Italian Job started off. I haven't seen the new version
1:53:43 > 1:53:50of Blade Runner but I'll get to see it eventually.It's funny because
1:53:50 > 1:53:56The Italian Job setup for a sequel with the ending and it's one of the
1:53:56 > 1:54:01famous endings in film.I know, and that wasn't in the initial script.
1:54:01 > 1:54:07The film industry, you have been in it for a long time. It is in the
1:54:07 > 1:54:10spotlight now for all the wrong reasons, Harvey Weinstein. Were you
1:54:10 > 1:54:16aware of the rumours? I never met him, I never worked for his company,
1:54:16 > 1:54:21so perhaps I am lucky in that respect. So no, I was not aware.
1:54:21 > 1:54:26There is now a director who has been holed up and pilloried for the same
1:54:26 > 1:54:33thing. Clearly it is scandalous. Again, naming any names aside from
1:54:33 > 1:54:37Harvey Weinstein who we are talking about, having had that long career
1:54:37 > 1:54:42and the idea of complicity and the casting couch, did you ever witness
1:54:42 > 1:54:48or hear about that type of thing going on about -- going on?
1:54:48 > 1:54:53Absolutely not. I knew historically it was meant to have happened, back
1:54:53 > 1:54:57in the 20s, but certainly people weren't wasting their time doing
1:54:57 > 1:55:00those sort of things with the level of money that has to be spent on
1:55:00 > 1:55:04film, you don't fool around, you shouldn't feel around and I never
1:55:04 > 1:55:10thought anybody would. But there you go, I am wrong.We should say that
1:55:10 > 1:55:17Harvey Weinstein has denied any and all accusations of nonconsensual
1:55:17 > 1:55:27sex. The reality TV star Miley Simpson has been found guilty of
1:55:27 > 1:55:32breaching advertising rules by plugging items on her social media
1:55:32 > 1:55:40platform. What do you make of all this, Katie?I am surprised, to be
1:55:40 > 1:55:46honest. Although this has hit the headlines, this has happened before.
1:55:46 > 1:55:51In fact, it has happened all the way back when were established
1:55:51 > 1:55:56celebrities were criticised back in 2012, so this is really not anything
1:55:56 > 1:56:00new. I just think there's more of it.When you say there is more of
1:56:00 > 1:56:06it, what do you mean?So, advertisers are looking for
1:56:06 > 1:56:10alternatives to ways of reaching consumers, predominantly because
1:56:10 > 1:56:14there is quite a lot of advertise mental fatigue, as they say, so
1:56:14 > 1:56:19people are getting bored of advertising, so the use of
1:56:19 > 1:56:22celebrities and particularly social media and Internet celebrities plus
1:56:22 > 1:56:27the use of those people who are deemed to have influence is
1:56:27 > 1:56:32increasing. So brands are going to influence celebrities and ask them
1:56:32 > 1:56:37to promote products.And do you think the celebrities, influencers,
1:56:37 > 1:56:41social media stuff, whatever you want to call them, do you think they
1:56:41 > 1:56:46are aware and know what they are getting themselves into?I don't
1:56:46 > 1:56:50think they are. I think some of them are, some of them are very savvy and
1:56:50 > 1:56:55very smart and also some of them wish to be authentic, and so don't
1:56:55 > 1:57:01want to be seen to be duping the consumer. Others are probably very
1:57:01 > 1:57:06unaware and as the rise in what we call micro influences, so these are
1:57:06 > 1:57:14people with smaller followings but in nuclear -- in smaller specific
1:57:14 > 1:57:20areas, like make-up and beauty, maybe not mainstream influences.
1:57:20 > 1:57:25Where do you think we will end up, because social media, part of the
1:57:25 > 1:57:28appeal, people who follow people aren't Instagram and Twitter, it's
1:57:28 > 1:57:32because they feel they are getting the authentic version of that
1:57:32 > 1:57:36person, it is all about authenticity, so if advertisers are
1:57:36 > 1:57:41finding more sophisticated ways of advertising, where do we end up?Not
1:57:41 > 1:57:44in a good place unless we move back to transparency and it's very
1:57:44 > 1:57:48simple. Brands need to make sure that influences need to be clear
1:57:48 > 1:57:56when they are promoting a good or a service.What do you think should
1:57:56 > 1:58:02happen next? In terms of cracking down, if you want to call it that.
1:58:02 > 1:58:06Basically, more education across the board and more understanding of what
1:58:06 > 1:58:09the rules and tail and a little bit more discipline from the marketing
1:58:09 > 1:58:14professionals.OK, thank you very much indeed for joining us on the
1:58:14 > 1:58:18programme today and thank you all for watching. BBC newsroom live is
1:58:18 > 1:58:23coming up next. Thank you for your company today. Have a great day.