0:00:07 > 0:00:09Hello, it's Monday, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,
0:00:09 > 0:00:11welcome to the programme.
0:00:11 > 0:00:17Our top story today:
0:00:17 > 0:00:24We can bring you exclusive news of early specific development in the
0:00:24 > 0:00:26vaginal mesh scandal - this programme has learned
0:00:26 > 0:00:28that the health watchdog will recommend its banned from treating
0:00:28 > 0:00:29organ prolapse in England.
0:00:29 > 0:00:33My husband has turned into my carer and he's so much less of my husband.
0:00:33 > 0:00:34We can't have sex.
0:00:34 > 0:00:36We haven't had sex for four and half years.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38Did you have any suicidal thoughts?
0:00:38 > 0:00:39You did?
0:00:39 > 0:00:40Yeah.
0:00:40 > 0:00:41Gosh...
0:00:41 > 0:00:44I planned it, I mapped it out.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49It comes after we revealed more than 800 UK women are taking legal
0:00:49 > 0:00:51action against the NHS and the makers of
0:00:51 > 0:00:59vaginal mesh implants.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01If you've had a mesh, really keen to get your
0:01:01 > 0:01:02reaction this morning.
0:01:02 > 0:01:04Do get in touch throughout the programme.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06Also on the programme - we've discovered that thousands
0:01:06 > 0:01:09of people in England and Wales are being taken to court
0:01:09 > 0:01:11and threatened with jail over council tax arrears every year.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14I just didn't know what to expect, where I was.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16It was absolutely horrific.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19I was worrying about the kids.
0:01:19 > 0:01:26Nobody can prepare you for it.
0:01:26 > 0:01:31We'll bring you the full exclusive story after 10am this morning.
0:01:31 > 0:01:37Six British men jailed in Southern India on weapons charges
0:01:37 > 0:01:40will find out shortly if they are to be freed, after
0:01:40 > 0:01:42spending four years behind bars.
0:01:42 > 0:01:48Wii will bring that to you live and bring reaction from family members.
0:01:50 > 0:01:57Hello - welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59Throughout the morning the latest breaking news
0:01:59 > 0:02:03and developing stories.
0:02:03 > 0:02:08Before ten, we are going to talk to the magnificent children's author
0:02:08 > 0:02:16Dame Jacqueline Wilson, who has been awarded the BAFTA children's special
0:02:16 > 0:02:20award, in relation to her remarkable contribution to TV, the amazing
0:02:20 > 0:02:22Tracy beaker series.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26If you've got a question for her do get in touch with us this morning.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28- use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text,
0:02:28 > 0:02:30you will be charged at the standard network rate.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32We will talk to her at about 9:45am.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Our top story today...
0:02:34 > 0:02:37Authorities in Bali have warned that a volcano on the island
0:02:37 > 0:02:39is in imminent danger of a full-scale eruption.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42Mount Agung has been sending clouds of thick ash and smoke thousands
0:02:42 > 0:02:45of feet into the air since Saturday.
0:02:45 > 0:02:47The island's airport, in Denpasar, has been closed and locals have been
0:02:47 > 0:02:49ordered to leave their homes.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Andrew Plant has the latest.
0:02:54 > 0:02:59Bali's most sacred mountain, an ancient volcano rumbling back
0:02:59 > 0:03:00to life with billows of black smoke.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03Mount Agung has been sleeping for more than half a century,
0:03:03 > 0:03:06now awake and angry.
0:03:06 > 0:03:11Experts believe a major eruption could be about to happen.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14TRANSLATION:The volcano has entered the magmatic eruption phase.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18There is now the possibility of a strong explosive eruption.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Those living nearby were evacuated in September
0:03:25 > 0:03:30at the first signs of activity.
0:03:30 > 0:03:36Now, the exclusion zone is a circle 12 miles wide.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39The thick ash rising thousands of metres, means many flights
0:03:39 > 0:03:42to and from this popular tourist destination have now been grounded.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44All the flights were cancelled so we're just now at the airport,
0:03:44 > 0:03:47we don't know what we're doing and we are trying to
0:03:47 > 0:03:48find another flight.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51In Bali, no one is taking any chances.
0:03:51 > 0:03:55More than 150,000 people are in temporary shelters.
0:03:55 > 0:03:58When the volcano last erupted in 1963, more
0:03:58 > 0:04:03than 1,000 people were killed.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06This time the Indonesian government says it is much better prepared.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09Andrew Plant, BBC News.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13Our Correspondent Tom Burridge joins me now.
0:04:13 > 0:04:21How imminent is imminent?The key thing here is experts say because
0:04:21 > 0:04:24molten rock is spotted right near the top of the volcano, that's why
0:04:24 > 0:04:29they believe it could be imminent. They say there has been increased
0:04:29 > 0:04:33inactivity on Mount Agung for two months. What's been happening is the
0:04:33 > 0:04:37magma has been moving up through the volcano, breaking up rock, heating
0:04:37 > 0:04:43up water inside the volcano, creating steam and pressure, and we
0:04:43 > 0:04:46are now at the point where the pressure is such that the rock
0:04:46 > 0:04:53basically can't be held back. Some experts think, as we say, it is
0:04:53 > 0:04:56imminent, a violent full-scale eruption, but others say it could be
0:04:56 > 0:04:59possible this is a low scale eruption over a longer period of
0:04:59 > 0:05:04time.OK, thank you very much, Tom. We will keep an eye on it.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary
0:05:07 > 0:05:08of the rest of the days news.
0:05:08 > 0:05:10Good morning.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13The families of those killed when a stolen car crashed in Leeds
0:05:13 > 0:05:15at the weekend have paid tribute to their loved ones.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18Brothers Ellis and Elliott Thornton, aged 12 and 15, died along
0:05:18 > 0:05:26with 15-year-old Darnell Harte and 24-year-old Robbie Meerun.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28Father-of-two Anthoney Armour, 28, whose partner is pregnant
0:05:28 > 0:05:34with a third child, also died when a Renault Clio hit a tree.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37Two 15-year-old boys remain in custody on suspicion of causing
0:05:37 > 0:05:38death by dangerous driving.
0:05:38 > 0:05:40This programme has learned that the health watchdog -
0:05:40 > 0:05:43the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence -
0:05:43 > 0:05:45is to recommend that vaginal mesh operations should be
0:05:45 > 0:05:50banned from treating organ prolapse in England.
0:05:50 > 0:05:52Draft guidelines from NICE say the implants should only
0:05:52 > 0:05:56be used for research - and not routine operations.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58A growing number of women have reported complications since having
0:05:58 > 0:06:00the procedure, with many needing wheelchairs, being unable
0:06:00 > 0:06:05to work or to have sex.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08Full reaction to come up on this story at about 9:15am.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10High-tech industries are set to receive millions of pounds
0:06:10 > 0:06:14in extra funding to boost skills and create jobs.
0:06:14 > 0:06:16It's part of the Government's strategy to increase economic
0:06:16 > 0:06:17performance post-Brexit.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20Sectors including robotics, artificial intelligence and medical
0:06:20 > 0:06:23research will be targeted, but some critics say more should be
0:06:23 > 0:06:28done to help traditional skills.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31Theresa May has said the Government will fund the full cost of dealing
0:06:31 > 0:06:34with the aftermath of the suicide bombing at the Manchester Arena,
0:06:34 > 0:06:36which killed 22 people in May.
0:06:36 > 0:06:41It comes after the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham,
0:06:41 > 0:06:43said the Government's initial offer was £5 million too low -
0:06:43 > 0:06:51and estimated that £28 million would be needed.
0:06:51 > 0:06:57Pope Francis has arrived on the first papal visit to me,, which has
0:06:57 > 0:07:07been accused of ethnic cleansing. The focus will be the Rohingya.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11There are concerns that could spark some potential violence if he does.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14He is scheduled to meet the leader and the head of the country's
0:07:14 > 0:07:15military.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18A rising number of people are being taken to court
0:07:18 > 0:07:21and threatened with prison for not paying their council tax.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23This programme found that more than 4,800
0:07:23 > 0:07:29people were taken to court between 2016 and 2017.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32That's gone up 11% in four years.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35During that time, at least 62 people were sent to prison.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37The Local Government Association said it was "essential"
0:07:37 > 0:07:38to collect funds.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40There are fears children with special needs are being let
0:07:40 > 0:07:43down by the education system.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45An investigation by BBC Breakfast has found a 57% increase
0:07:45 > 0:07:50in the number of children being educated at home.
0:07:50 > 0:07:52Some families believe home education is their only option.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54In the first of a series of special reports, our
0:07:54 > 0:07:56Education Editor Branwen Jeffreys looks at the challenges faced
0:07:56 > 0:08:00by some of the children.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03For more than a year, Emily has been learning at home.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06She's been diagnosed with autism and ADHD.
0:08:06 > 0:08:12School felt noisy and overwhelming.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15A bit stressful because I don't really like, like, a lot of loud
0:08:15 > 0:08:19noises because it just makes me really upset and I want to learn
0:08:19 > 0:08:22things that I'm interested in, but, it's like I can't learn anything
0:08:22 > 0:08:29because I don't know how to and they don't tell me how.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33Emily would get angry and lash out.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35Now she is on medication at home.
0:08:35 > 0:08:40Her mum, Lorna, decided to home educate after trying three schools.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44I couldn't cope with her going to school and then coming back
0:08:44 > 0:08:48with her so stressed out, so angry at me and then not wanting
0:08:48 > 0:08:52to go to school the next day.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54The meltdowns were horrendous and I can't pick her up
0:08:54 > 0:08:57and put her in the car and physically take her to school.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00Lorna isn't the only parent to reach this decision.
0:09:00 > 0:09:02A growing number of families with children with special needs
0:09:02 > 0:09:06are deciding to home educate.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08The fear is they're doing that because they feel let down
0:09:08 > 0:09:12by the school system.
0:09:12 > 0:09:18Between 2013 and 2017 there was a 57% increase in children
0:09:18 > 0:09:22with special needs being home educated, and that's just children
0:09:22 > 0:09:23who have a statement or equivalent in England,
0:09:23 > 0:09:28Wales or Northern Ireland.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31It's a 64% increase if you just look at England.
0:09:31 > 0:09:36Scotland has a different system, making comparisons difficult.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38I think before there was people genuinely making a choice
0:09:38 > 0:09:41because that was the right thing for them and now there are too many
0:09:41 > 0:09:44families who are saying they don't feel like they have either option
0:09:44 > 0:09:49so they're having to resort to home education, that can't be right.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53Emily is learning differently with some extra classes.
0:09:53 > 0:09:58She's happier out of schools but misses her friends.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00In England, the government says more special education places
0:10:00 > 0:10:03are being created and its putting money into the system
0:10:03 > 0:10:04to make it work better.
0:10:04 > 0:10:07Branwen Jeffreys, BBC News.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10Councils in England generated £819 million in profit
0:10:10 > 0:10:12from parking fees and fines during the last financial year -
0:10:12 > 0:10:15that's 10% higher than in the previous one.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18Figures obtained by the RAC Foundation showed four of the five
0:10:18 > 0:10:23councils with the largest surplus were in London.
0:10:23 > 0:10:25The Local Government Association said income from parking went
0:10:25 > 0:10:35towards essential transport projects and repairs.
0:10:44 > 0:10:50Jacqueline Wilson has picked up a BAFTA for her contribution to
0:10:50 > 0:10:53children's books. Her career has spanned more than 35 years and she
0:10:53 > 0:10:57will be speaking to Victoria later this out. That is a summary of the
0:10:57 > 0:11:03latest BBC News. More at 9:30am. And that your question is that Dame
0:11:03 > 0:11:07Jacqueline Wilson. I am sure some of your children have read her books!
0:11:07 > 0:11:16Get in touch. We have some comments on the fact that mesh implants are
0:11:16 > 0:11:21going to be banned, it looks like, on the NHS in England for treating
0:11:21 > 0:11:25patients with prolapse. This is after we first revealed back in
0:11:25 > 0:11:29April that 800 patients were suing the NHS and the manufacturers
0:11:29 > 0:11:33because of the awful problems that have been caused to certain
0:11:33 > 0:11:36patients, not everybody, but a significant minority. Claire on
0:11:36 > 0:11:40Twitter says they should not have taken a patient uprising to get this
0:11:40 > 0:11:46far but like so often in life, the little people don't have a voice
0:11:46 > 0:11:49unless they grouped together. This is a fantastic step in the right
0:11:49 > 0:11:51direction. Another says, congratulations, it
0:11:51 > 0:11:54wouldn't have happened without your coverage. Wendy said I had a mesh
0:11:54 > 0:11:59implants, so happy I did, it was life changing. And that is true for
0:11:59 > 0:12:03the vast majority of women, according to the NHRA, the
0:12:03 > 0:12:09medicine's regulatory authority, the vast majority of people who have a
0:12:09 > 0:12:15mesh implant it on with their lives and are absolutely fine. But a small
0:12:15 > 0:12:18minority have really, really severe and serious complications on this
0:12:18 > 0:12:27guidance we have obtained from NICE highlights the serious concerns. If
0:12:27 > 0:12:30you have had attempted back, let me know about your experience on your
0:12:30 > 0:12:33reaction to the news it will be banned in England for treating
0:12:33 > 0:12:34prolapse.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36Let's get some sport from Jess...
0:12:36 > 0:12:38As expected Australia have taken the lead in the Ashes,
0:12:38 > 0:12:39should we be surprised?
0:12:39 > 0:12:44Not really a surprise.Before this series no one would have expected
0:12:44 > 0:12:47England to get a result at the Gabba. Australia haven't lost at
0:12:47 > 0:12:53that venue in 29 years, but actually for much of the Test it was quite
0:12:53 > 0:12:56evenly contested, at least the first three days. It seemed as though
0:12:56 > 0:13:00England might just get something out of it. But towards the end of the
0:13:00 > 0:13:08series tide turned in Australia's favour, partly due to Steve Smith's
0:13:08 > 0:13:13unbeaten century. In the final day Australia reached their target of
0:13:13 > 0:13:17170 with ease. David Cameron and Cameron Bancroft prize made
0:13:17 > 0:13:21half-century as they completed a ten wicket victory to stop despite
0:13:21 > 0:13:24promising moments along the way, England were comfortably beaten in
0:13:24 > 0:13:30the end and go 1-0 down in this five match series.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34And off the field everyone is talking about England player Jonny
0:13:34 > 0:13:38Bairstow's unusual greeting for an Australian player that he met in a
0:13:38 > 0:13:43bar a month ago?It has been dubbed the Bairstow kiss. You would think
0:13:43 > 0:13:49with the England players being under such increase scrutiny for their off
0:13:49 > 0:13:52field conduct they'd keep a low profile, but it has come to light
0:13:52 > 0:13:59there was it headbutt from Jonny Bairstow on camera and bankrupt a
0:13:59 > 0:14:03month ago when the tour began in Perth. In the press conference both
0:14:03 > 0:14:07men said there was no malice or intent and played it down as banter.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10The England coach Trevor Bayliss says the England players have to be
0:14:10 > 0:14:13smarter. Let's hear from the two men involved.
0:14:13 > 0:14:18We were just in the bar having a good laugh and a good evening out.
0:14:18 > 0:14:23It was very enjoyable. Cameron and I enjoyed the evening and continued to
0:14:23 > 0:14:28do so. There was no intent or malice about anything during the evening.
0:14:28 > 0:14:34Year, just greeted me with, yeah, just a headbutt kind of thing. I was
0:14:34 > 0:14:39expecting a handshake, but it wasn't the greeting of choice I was
0:14:39 > 0:14:44expecting. That was the way that I took it. There was certainly no
0:14:44 > 0:14:48malice in his action and we continued on having a very good
0:14:48 > 0:14:53conversation. The second Test in Adelaide gets
0:14:53 > 0:14:56underway in the early hours of Saturday. Hopefully this incident
0:14:56 > 0:14:59won't prove too much of a distraction for the England players.
0:14:59 > 0:15:06It is a day- night test, an unknown quantity in Ashes cricket but the
0:15:06 > 0:15:11unpredictability might work in England's favour.Thank you, Jess.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13This morning, a significant development in the mesh
0:15:13 > 0:15:14implant scandal.
0:15:14 > 0:15:16Eight months after we investigated the horrific problems
0:15:16 > 0:15:19being experienced by women who had had the mesh procedure,
0:15:19 > 0:15:21we can exclusively reveal that the health watchdog
0:15:21 > 0:15:24is recommending the NHS in England ban the use of mesh for treating
0:15:24 > 0:15:27women who've had a prolapse.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30In April, we revealed 800 women were suing manufacturers and the NHS
0:15:30 > 0:15:33over the implants which can erode, leave women in permanent pain,
0:15:33 > 0:15:43unable to walk, work or have sex.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46Now, new guidelines from NICE, the National Institute for Health
0:15:46 > 0:15:52and Care Excellence, highlight "serious safety
0:15:52 > 0:15:54concerns" with the implants, and advise mesh should in future
0:15:54 > 0:15:57only be used for research purposes.
0:15:57 > 0:15:59It makes no mention of the use of mesh for treating
0:15:59 > 0:16:00incontinence or hernias.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03Our reporter Anna Collinson has the story.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08In April this programme exposed a painful secret thousands of women
0:16:08 > 0:16:18were keeping to themselves.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20Every time I walk it almost feels like something sharp's inside me.
0:16:20 > 0:16:24The tape had come through my vagina, it was actually all the way through,
0:16:24 > 0:16:25protruding through.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28My husband has turned into my carer and he's so much less of my husband.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31We can't have sex.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34We haven't had sex for four and a half years.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37They thought they were alone, so suffered in silence for years,
0:16:37 > 0:16:41unaware there were many more like them.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43Over the last five years I counted actually, I've
0:16:43 > 0:16:49had over 53 admissions, because of agonising pain.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52I phoned my husband and I said, I can't, I can't live any more,
0:16:52 > 0:16:55I can't go through this.
0:16:55 > 0:17:00I actually do think, I'm believing the doctors,
0:17:00 > 0:17:02I think it's in my head, yeah.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04I didn't know where else to turn.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07This is a vaginal mesh.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09It is used when women have prolapse or bladder incontinence,
0:17:09 > 0:17:12normally brought on by childbirth.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15And it is often made from polypropylene.
0:17:15 > 0:17:20That's the same material used to make this kind of drinks bottle.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23Over the past 20 years more than 100,000 women across the UK
0:17:23 > 0:17:29have had vaginal mesh implants.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32Some doctors now believe a minimum of one in ten patients
0:17:32 > 0:17:33experience problems.
0:17:33 > 0:17:35I'm not just a number, I'm somebody's partner, I'm
0:17:35 > 0:17:36somebody's mum, somebody's sister.
0:17:36 > 0:17:40And all these people are impacted.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43Did you, can I ask, did you have any suicidal thoughts?
0:17:43 > 0:17:44You did.
0:17:44 > 0:17:45Yes.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Gosh.
0:17:47 > 0:17:48I planned it.
0:17:48 > 0:17:53I mapped it out.
0:17:53 > 0:18:02With us this morning, a dozen or so...
0:18:02 > 0:18:04Earlier this year we heard hundreds of women were taking legal
0:18:04 > 0:18:05action against the NHS.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08I wonder, would you support calls for these mesh implants
0:18:08 > 0:18:09to be banned on the NHS?
0:18:09 > 0:18:10Definitely.
0:18:10 > 0:18:11Definitely.
0:18:11 > 0:18:13Most definitely.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15The simple procedure could end up costing tens of millions
0:18:15 > 0:18:24of pounds in compensation.
0:18:24 > 0:18:25This was back in April.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27Over the last seven months many, many women have
0:18:27 > 0:18:28told us their stories.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31I just wonder how many people are going to get crippled before
0:18:31 > 0:18:32anyone listens to us.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35What we go through on a daily basis is a nightmare.
0:18:35 > 0:18:37But complications with mesh can arise in other places too.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40Chances are the mesh that was used for your hernia
0:18:40 > 0:18:43was something like this.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46My God.
0:18:46 > 0:18:47No wonder it itches.
0:18:47 > 0:18:49I mean, it's really thick.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51Just like nylon.
0:18:51 > 0:18:56Woah.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59In July we revealed NHS England hernia mesh repairs were leaving
0:18:59 > 0:19:02many patients in chronic pain.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05It's as if I've been stabbed with something hot.
0:19:05 > 0:19:10I don't want to eat. I don't want to venture out too far.
0:19:10 > 0:19:12We even arranged for two hernia mesh patients to meet up.
0:19:12 > 0:19:13Helen.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16Martin.
0:19:16 > 0:19:17You OK?
0:19:17 > 0:19:21Yes.
0:19:21 > 0:19:22And you?
0:19:22 > 0:19:23Take a seat.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26I've had an operation really I didn't need, and six years'
0:19:26 > 0:19:28worth of investigation.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31Some gynaecologists claim a ban on vaginal mesh implants would risk
0:19:31 > 0:19:34depriving women of the option of a treatment which,
0:19:34 > 0:19:38for incontinence at least, has been effective.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41But a growing number of doctors believe the risk is too great,
0:19:41 > 0:19:49and in Scotland the use of mesh has been suspended.
0:19:49 > 0:19:51Labour have called for vaginal mesh repairs to be banned
0:19:51 > 0:19:53and for a public inquiry.
0:19:53 > 0:19:58They have received cross-party support.
0:19:58 > 0:20:02Let's say it's as little as one in ten in whom this is going wrong.
0:20:02 > 0:20:04If that were a medicine, it wouldn't be on the market.
0:20:04 > 0:20:09Now this programme can exclusively reveal the National Institute
0:20:09 > 0:20:11for Health and Clinical Excellence has effectively recommended
0:20:11 > 0:20:15a ban on vaginal mesh repairs for prolapse.
0:20:15 > 0:20:19NICE say the procedure should only be used for research.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22The health watchdog was initially going to publish its
0:20:22 > 0:20:25updated guidance in 2019, but as the spotlight intensified,
0:20:25 > 0:20:29it was brought forward to December.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33They say they won't comment until then.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36Campaigners are calling this latest development a back door ban
0:20:36 > 0:20:38and a historic moment, but also say the fight
0:20:38 > 0:20:42is far from over.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45They want a temporary suspension of all pelvic mesh repairs
0:20:45 > 0:20:48while an audit is carried out to find out the true scale
0:20:48 > 0:20:49of the women affected.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52They also want NICE to provide advice on other types of mesh
0:20:52 > 0:20:54repairs like hernias.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05We can speak to Margie Maguire.
0:21:05 > 0:21:09She had a vaginal mesh implant in 2015 and as a result she can't
0:21:09 > 0:21:12walk properly or have any more children.
0:21:12 > 0:21:17Kate Langley was one of the first women we spoke to when this
0:21:17 > 0:21:19programme exposed the problems caused by mesh implants.
0:21:19 > 0:21:20John Osborne is a retired obstetrician and urogynecologist
0:21:20 > 0:21:28who first raised concerns about mesh in the 1970s.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31Welcome all of you. Thank you very much for coming on the programme.
0:21:31 > 0:21:36First of all, let me get your reaction from women who have had
0:21:36 > 0:21:41this mesh implant to the news that the health watchdog is going to tell
0:21:41 > 0:21:44the NHS these implants should be banned as a way of treating a
0:21:44 > 0:21:51prolapse.I think it's a step in the right direction, but any mesh is
0:21:51 > 0:21:54mesh in whatever surgical procedure and it needs to be banned
0:21:54 > 0:21:59across-the-board definitely.I think it is great news that they are doing
0:21:59 > 0:22:05something, but there is a vast, you know, a lot more women actually are
0:22:05 > 0:22:08having stress incontinence mesh so that's not going to help those
0:22:08 > 0:22:13ladies, but it is fantastic news for women that have got the type of
0:22:13 > 0:22:19mesh. It is a step in the right direction.And yourself, John
0:22:19 > 0:22:23Osborne as someone who has been warning about this?You have to
0:22:23 > 0:22:27carefully consider how we approach this problem. We are told that the
0:22:27 > 0:22:31mesh is only causing problems in a small percentage of cases, but that
0:22:31 > 0:22:34is a significant number of people because thousands of these things
0:22:34 > 0:22:39have been put in and it has become a quick fix solution.So the fact that
0:22:39 > 0:22:43it will be banned for the use of prolapse, it looks like, for
0:22:43 > 0:22:48patients in England, is...Well, I can see the logic for that and I
0:22:48 > 0:22:52think we have to be careful people are working on new meshes and they
0:22:52 > 0:22:56must be looked at more carefully than they did in the past. We
0:22:56 > 0:23:02mustn't make the same mistakes we made before.You are in a wheelchair
0:23:02 > 0:23:07because of a mesh implant for a prolapse. Tell our audience what has
0:23:07 > 0:23:12happened to you since you had this procedure in 2015?Yes. I had the
0:23:12 > 0:23:18procedure in 2015 and the purpose of having it was, I had a significant
0:23:18 > 0:23:23prolapse and my husband and I for four years couldn't be intimate and
0:23:23 > 0:23:26we wanted to have another child, we have one child, a six-year-old and
0:23:26 > 0:23:31we were told this was the only way to put everything back into place so
0:23:31 > 0:23:37we could naturally continue. So, with that advice we carried on and
0:23:37 > 0:23:42at six weeks I had a miscarriage and then I phoned and said you know I
0:23:42 > 0:23:46have had a miscarriage and asked if it was to do with the mesh and they
0:23:46 > 0:23:51said no, it is perfectly fine. Try again in another month and we got
0:23:51 > 0:23:55pregnant again. We had scan at seven-and-a-half weeks and the
0:23:55 > 0:24:01baby's heartbeat was fine and president baby was fine, but just
0:24:01 > 0:24:07growing in an unusual position, the baby's heart stopped, but it took
0:24:07 > 0:24:11five weeks for the baby to pass through the mesh and the baby was in
0:24:11 > 0:24:15pieces. Every month I have been in agony and I have been on the floor
0:24:15 > 0:24:19in crippling pain. It has got worse and worse. I have had several
0:24:19 > 0:24:23hospital admissions. I'm on nine different drugs to help the pain,
0:24:23 > 0:24:28but on a daily basis, I am on a five out of ten, six out of ten pain and
0:24:28 > 0:24:31I have the pain attacks where nothing can touch it. Even when I
0:24:31 > 0:24:36have been in an ambulance and 2 had 20 milligrams of morphine, it can't
0:24:36 > 0:24:42touch the pain. I have to sit on the floor and breathe through it and I
0:24:42 > 0:24:47have to wait for it to pass and it can come on at any time. I have it
0:24:47 > 0:24:51had to cut down what particular do to 10% what I can do because any
0:24:51 > 0:24:56movement increases the pain and... How do you know it's the mesh?It is
0:24:56 > 0:25:01because it didn't happen before the mesh and I have had an MRI and the
0:25:01 > 0:25:05mesh is entangled into my bowel and it is attached to my uterus in
0:25:05 > 0:25:09several places. It is a mess in there and all of that has been
0:25:09 > 0:25:11pulled in different directions and that's what is causing the pain and
0:25:11 > 0:25:16how they have done the surgery, they have wrapped the mesh around my
0:25:16 > 0:25:22uterus and attached it to my spine so it is strangling my uterus so the
0:25:22 > 0:25:25babies didn't have a chance and it is awful.What do you think about
0:25:25 > 0:25:32that?I agree it should be banned. I want told about any of these things.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35They knew I wanted to try for more children and it is shocking that
0:25:35 > 0:25:38they allowed me to do that knowing that they have taken mesh out of
0:25:38 > 0:25:44other people in the same month it was put inside of me and not given
0:25:44 > 0:25:49me any of these things so I could make an informed decision. It has
0:25:49 > 0:25:52ruined my life.Is that how you feel?It has ruined my life. Don't
0:25:52 > 0:25:59feel like me anymore.I'm so sorry. Do you mind me asking how old are
0:25:59 > 0:26:04you?41.Right, OK. How does this impact on the way you are with your
0:26:04 > 0:26:08six-year-old?It's very difficult because I have to use a mobility
0:26:08 > 0:26:12scooter to take her to the park, and I have still got the motherly
0:26:12 > 0:26:16instincts and she is climbing apparatus and she falls, my
0:26:16 > 0:26:20instincts want to go to her, but I can't, I have to talk her down and
0:26:20 > 0:26:26tell her to come to me, I can't physically run over and pick her up
0:26:26 > 0:26:33anymore. It has impacted in a big way.Kate, as you're listening to
0:26:33 > 0:26:39Margie, you are relating to a lot of this, the excruciating level of pain
0:26:39 > 0:26:43which some people don't understand because mesh is tiny and how can it
0:26:43 > 0:26:48cause this much pain? But in your case it has, you have been admitted
0:26:48 > 0:26:53to hospital over 50 times. You were given a mesh for incontinence. The
0:26:53 > 0:26:58guidelines are going to suggest that mesh is banned for prolapse, but not
0:26:58 > 0:27:03for hernias yet, not for intent nans yet. What would you say about that?
0:27:03 > 0:27:07I would say there is so many people like me, that are suffering every
0:27:07 > 0:27:12day, we don't know when there is going to be an end to it. Our lives
0:27:12 > 0:27:17have been destroyed by mesh. There is so many women out there that get
0:27:17 > 0:27:22a leaky bladder after they have had a baby and so many women are going
0:27:22 > 0:27:25to go, unknowingly and be given this operation and they could well end up
0:27:25 > 0:27:31in the same position as myself and there is nearly 4500 other women in
0:27:31 > 0:27:36our campaign that's growing every day from your coverage, are going to
0:27:36 > 0:27:40be affected. The stories are heartbreaking.You have had, some of
0:27:40 > 0:27:45the mesh removed, but not a final bit, why?Basically because of the
0:27:45 > 0:27:49positioning of it. They don't know how it travelled and got to that
0:27:49 > 0:27:56position, but it's very close to like my main artery. So my
0:27:56 > 0:28:00consultant, even though she is an expert in mesh removal, she is not
0:28:00 > 0:28:04sure or confident she could remove it herself so she will need, I'm
0:28:04 > 0:28:08going after this to see a vascular surgeon to see if his input could
0:28:08 > 0:28:12possibly help and possibly a trauma surgeon, but leaving it, there is
0:28:12 > 0:28:18the concern that because my mesh was found to be the reason I kept
0:28:18 > 0:28:21collapsing and like Margie on the floor and needing morphine was
0:28:21 > 0:28:28because it was slicing through my organings, through my vagina. The
0:28:28 > 0:28:33thought is it could do that to that particular artery so leaving it
0:28:33 > 0:28:37there, it could kill me or I have the operation and it is really risky
0:28:37 > 0:28:42too. Now I am left in a situation, it is like my consultant said I'm
0:28:42 > 0:28:48damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't. I'm not the only person out
0:28:48 > 0:28:53there, there is so many other women out there in this situation, but we
0:28:53 > 0:28:58feel like we are ticking time bombs with this thing inside of us that's
0:28:58 > 0:29:02doing horrendous things to our inside.
0:29:02 > 0:29:07One viewer says, "I was one of the mesh injured women on your programme
0:29:07 > 0:29:12in April with my daughter. I had my mesh removed seven weeks ago. I have
0:29:12 > 0:29:16got my life back. I can work. I can drive. I can be a mum again. I'm
0:29:16 > 0:29:20over the moon at the news this morning."
0:29:20 > 0:29:25Tina says, "Oh my god I this this operation in 2007. I have only had
0:29:25 > 0:29:29sex once since and I'm now wheelchair dependant. I'm shocked
0:29:29 > 0:29:35and horrified that the mesh could be the cause." Tina on Facebook, "I had
0:29:35 > 0:29:38a vaginal mesh implant in 2012. Plaouf has changed from constant
0:29:38 > 0:29:52pain if the top of my head to the tips of my toes. Constant bowel and
0:29:52 > 0:29:56bladder incouldn't continence." Hi Sarah. She has had a p good
0:29:56 > 0:29:58experience with mesh. Thank you for talking to us. I really appreciate
0:29:58 > 0:30:07it. Tell us about your own implant. Yes, I had the implant for
0:30:07 > 0:30:14incontinence last December. Literally the incontinence was
0:30:14 > 0:30:18ruining my life. I couldn't go on trampolines, I couldn't cough
0:30:18 > 0:30:25without urinating myself. I had the mesh in December and immediately
0:30:25 > 0:30:31changed my life for the better.Yes. I have no issues whatsoever now. I
0:30:31 > 0:30:36jog. I run. I can go on a trampoline. I can laugh and cough
0:30:36 > 0:30:44without having any leakage whatsoever. And it's horrendous the
0:30:44 > 0:30:51experience some people have had, but mine is the complete opposite.
0:30:51 > 0:30:56And you are like the vast majority of people, including to the NRA Che.
0:30:56 > 0:31:01They have consistently told us hundreds of thousands of women have
0:31:01 > 0:31:06mesh implants and the vast majority are very happy with the outcome. The
0:31:06 > 0:31:11figures suggesting only one in ten people experience problems. I wonder
0:31:11 > 0:31:16if you think, and I will ask John Osborne this as well, even if you
0:31:16 > 0:31:23think it is a small minority that have problems, it is still worth
0:31:23 > 0:31:30having mesh implants, procedures available?I think so. I had a liver
0:31:30 > 0:31:35resection in 2008 and I had to have a hernia repair about four years
0:31:35 > 0:31:41later and they put mesh when they did the hernia repair. So I have had
0:31:41 > 0:31:56a hernia repair with mesh and incontinence. I think it has changed
0:31:56 > 0:32:02my life so positively... They did trial a different type of mesh for
0:32:02 > 0:32:08my incontinence because they have run out of the mesh of the supply,
0:32:08 > 0:32:13they changed the supplier, I don't know if it had anything to do with
0:32:13 > 0:32:17the positivity I experienced.It might be. John Osborne, you know the
0:32:17 > 0:32:23majority of patients have a good outcome.Yes indeed.I wonder if
0:32:23 > 0:32:26it's disproportionate that mesh implants will be recommended to be
0:32:26 > 0:32:30banned for treating prolapse.I think it would be right for prolapse
0:32:30 > 0:32:38because that is a slightly different... Larger pieces of mesh
0:32:38 > 0:32:41are more vulnerable places. For incontinence, the vast majority have
0:32:41 > 0:32:44had good results but you have to be very careful in choosing patients
0:32:44 > 0:32:54the procedures. The incontinence mesh have been put in younger women
0:32:54 > 0:32:57with minimum symptoms. The person we just heard from had serious problems
0:32:57 > 0:33:02-- serious problems but they have been using it for minor incontinence
0:33:02 > 0:33:05and it might be there for 50 years in young women.And we don't know
0:33:05 > 0:33:09what it will do in 50 years.We need to be careful about what we choose
0:33:09 > 0:33:16to do and how we use it. I think a total ban may be necessary whilst we
0:33:16 > 0:33:20rethink and find out how many people really have had this problem.Thank
0:33:20 > 0:33:27you very much to all of you for coming on for programme. All the
0:33:27 > 0:33:34best with the appointment with the consultants afterwards.
0:33:34 > 0:33:39Just to say we invited a minister from the Department from health to
0:33:39 > 0:33:44join us, they declined and referred us to NICE. They said they cannot
0:33:44 > 0:33:49put anyone up for discussion because the guidelines won't be updated
0:33:49 > 0:33:51until December the 20th and the current guidelines are subject to
0:33:51 > 0:33:57change. Thank you Sarah, appreciate you coming on the programme. Send me
0:33:57 > 0:34:04an e-mail or mesh sewage us on Twitter, Whatsapp or Facebook. Still
0:34:04 > 0:34:14to come...
0:34:14 > 0:34:16Any moment now - six British men jailed
0:34:16 > 0:34:19in Southern India on weapons charges waiting to hear whether they will be
0:34:19 > 0:34:21freed, after spending four years behind bars.
0:34:21 > 0:34:23We will get reaction from their families.
0:34:23 > 0:34:25And we'll be talking to Dame Jacqueline Wilson who last
0:34:25 > 0:34:27night was awarded the Bafta Children's Special Award
0:34:27 > 0:34:29in recognition of her contribution to childrens TV
0:34:29 > 0:34:31with the Tracey Beaker series.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38Time for the latest news, here's Annita.
0:34:40 > 0:34:45The BBC News headlines this morning:
0:34:45 > 0:34:48Authorities in Bali have warned a volcano on the island is in danger
0:34:48 > 0:34:55of a full-scale eruption. Thick clouds of smoke and ash have been
0:34:55 > 0:34:58travelling thousands of metres into the air since Saturday. The Apple
0:34:58 > 0:35:02has been closed and locals have been ordered to leave their homes. -- the
0:35:02 > 0:35:03airport has been close.
0:35:03 > 0:35:06The families of those killed when a stolen car crashed in Leeds
0:35:06 > 0:35:08at the weekend have paid tribute to their loved ones.
0:35:08 > 0:35:11Brothers Ellis and Elliott Thornton, aged 12 and 15, died along
0:35:11 > 0:35:14with 15-year-old Darnell Harte and 24-year-old Robbie Meerun.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17Father-of-two Anthoney Armour, 28, whose partner is pregnant
0:35:17 > 0:35:20with a third child, also died when a Renault Clio hit a tree.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23Two 15-year-old boys remain in custody on suspicion of causing
0:35:23 > 0:35:27death by dangerous driving.
0:35:27 > 0:35:29This programme has learned that the health watchdog -
0:35:29 > 0:35:33the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence -
0:35:33 > 0:35:36is to recommend that vaginal mesh operations should be banned
0:35:36 > 0:35:38from treating organ prolapse in England.
0:35:38 > 0:35:41Draft guidelines from NICE say the implants should only
0:35:41 > 0:35:44be used for research, and not routine operations.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47A growing number of women have reported complications
0:35:47 > 0:35:52since having the procedure, with many needing wheelchairs,
0:35:52 > 0:35:56being unable to work or to have sex.
0:35:56 > 0:36:01That's a summary of the latest BBC News.
0:36:01 > 0:36:06Thank you. A message from Debbie said she had a mesh in 2007. For
0:36:06 > 0:36:09years she had no problems but the last couple of years she is in pain
0:36:09 > 0:36:14every day with sciatica. She has tried every possible treatment and
0:36:14 > 0:36:17the hospital cannot get to the cause and have discharged. She is left
0:36:17 > 0:36:21with no treatment now and constant pain and now wondering if this is
0:36:21 > 0:36:22linked to the mesh.
0:36:22 > 0:36:27Here's some sport now with Jess.
0:36:27 > 0:36:32Good morning. As expected Australia have taken a 1-0 lead in the Ashes
0:36:32 > 0:36:35Series after wrapping up ten wicket victory in the first Test match
0:36:35 > 0:36:40against England. Opening batsmen David Warner and Cameron Bancroft
0:36:40 > 0:36:48got the winning runs at the Gabba. Once again, England's field conduct
0:36:48 > 0:36:51has come under scrutiny, after it was alleged wicketkeeper Jonny
0:36:51 > 0:36:55Bairstow head-butted Bancroft a month ago in a nightclub. Both men
0:36:55 > 0:37:00said there was no malice involved. Manchester City remain unbeaten at
0:37:00 > 0:37:04the top of the Premier League. They beat Huddersfield 2-1 to move eight
0:37:04 > 0:37:10points clear of Manchester United. Celtic's dominance in Scotland
0:37:10 > 0:37:13continues, they won their fourth domestic trophy in a row, claiming
0:37:13 > 0:37:17the Scottish League Cup after beating Motherwell 2-0 at Hampden
0:37:17 > 0:37:24Park. More sport just after 10am. Thank you very much.
0:37:24 > 0:37:26Next, Dame Jacqueline Wilson has been writing children's books
0:37:26 > 0:37:27for more than three decades.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30Your kids will definitley have read some of them -
0:37:30 > 0:37:32The Story of Tracy Beaker, Girls in Love, Hetty Feather
0:37:32 > 0:37:36and The Illustrated Mum - and last night she was awarded
0:37:36 > 0:37:39the Bafta Children's Special Award in recognition of her
0:37:39 > 0:37:43contribution to children's TV, with the Tracey Beaker series.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46You're the most useless foster mother in the world, I hate you!
0:37:51 > 0:37:54This is mine, I love this and you stole it.
0:37:54 > 0:37:56I didn't steal it!
0:37:56 > 0:38:00I can't take any more dishonesty.
0:38:00 > 0:38:02You're the dishonest one, you're the one that pretended
0:38:02 > 0:38:04you are going to stick by me and look after me,
0:38:04 > 0:38:06and I stuck by you.
0:38:06 > 0:38:08I didn't dump you when you were being a terrible foster mum!
0:38:08 > 0:38:11I'm not dumping you.
0:38:11 > 0:38:13Then say, "Let's go home, Tracey, we'll manage somehow".
0:38:13 > 0:38:16Say it.
0:38:17 > 0:38:19Tracey, let's go inside.
0:38:19 > 0:38:24Don't worry, I'm coming, and I didn't steal your precious teapot!
0:38:24 > 0:38:29You're the worst foster mother, I never want to see you again!
0:38:29 > 0:38:32In case your half dozen brain cells rubbing together
0:38:32 > 0:38:35giving you a headache, wondering why I came back...
0:38:38 > 0:38:40Jacqueline Wilson's books aren't about fantasy or wizards,
0:38:40 > 0:38:44they're about real life and regularly deal with issues
0:38:44 > 0:38:48like adoption, mental health, bullying and divorce.
0:38:48 > 0:38:53She's written 107 books and I'm delighted to say she joins us now.
0:38:53 > 0:38:59Is that right, 107?I think so, it doesn't seem real but it is.
0:38:59 > 0:39:05Congratulations on your award.Thank you, I was so surprised, a BAFTA,
0:39:05 > 0:39:08you expect glamorous actors getting one. It will be in pride of place.
0:39:08 > 0:39:13Mind you, it is so heavy!What does winning something like that mean to
0:39:13 > 0:39:20you?It was so touching, in that they had clips from many different
0:39:20 > 0:39:23television adaptations and it sort of brings it home to me, how lucky
0:39:23 > 0:39:30I've been with all of them, they've all been fantastic. And meeting up
0:39:30 > 0:39:34with people from long ago. It was an amazing night. It is not often you
0:39:34 > 0:39:38get the chance to rewind through your life and see what happened.
0:39:38 > 0:39:43What do you think about the quality of children's television in Britain?
0:39:43 > 0:39:49These days?I think probably compared to other countries,
0:39:49 > 0:39:52occasionally in the past when I have been in America or Australia, I
0:39:52 > 0:40:00think we are way up there and we should be very proud.Do you worry
0:40:00 > 0:40:04about the fact that children... It sounds bizarre asking this question,
0:40:04 > 0:40:07the fact children are watching less television because mostly they are
0:40:07 > 0:40:13spending hours on YouTube?Exactly. I think it is always the case that
0:40:13 > 0:40:19whatever children are doing, we worry about it. I would imagine that
0:40:19 > 0:40:24as long as things are carefully monitored...That's the point, they
0:40:24 > 0:40:29are not at. There is some amazing stuff on YouTube but awful stuff as
0:40:29 > 0:40:36well.It is this access that so many people, and also, I think what
0:40:36 > 0:40:42really is a worrying thing about children's television or whatever it
0:40:42 > 0:40:45is there watching, it is often done in the privacy of their own bedrooms
0:40:45 > 0:40:52rather than in the kind of family viewing area. Not only because of
0:40:52 > 0:40:55the worry about what they might secretly be watching, but it takes
0:40:55 > 0:41:00away family time and sort of gathering around the television and
0:41:00 > 0:41:07laughing at something, or discussing some particular issue. I know
0:41:07 > 0:41:11parents can't be there all the time, but it would be nice if they had
0:41:11 > 0:41:16slightly more access, to see what their children were watching. Not
0:41:16 > 0:41:19necessarily made teenagers, because they are not going to want to sit
0:41:19 > 0:41:24down.Primary aged school television, you would say don't have
0:41:24 > 0:41:28a television in your children's bedroom?While I wouldn't say don't!
0:41:28 > 0:41:32Of course you wouldn't advise mums and dads what you would do but if
0:41:32 > 0:41:37you had a preference.Certainly I wouldn't have liked it, I don't
0:41:37 > 0:41:41think, if my daughter when she was ten was off in another room, just
0:41:41 > 0:41:46doing her own thing there.What about the time children spend
0:41:46 > 0:41:57reading? Is it enough? Do you understand why it's not more?I try
0:41:57 > 0:42:02very, very hard. I feel like some evangelical person trying to spread
0:42:02 > 0:42:08the joys of reading. I think if small children are read to and
0:42:08 > 0:42:14associate it with snuggling up with someone and having fun together and
0:42:14 > 0:42:17if the family breeds themselves, I think children catch the habit quite
0:42:17 > 0:42:23easily. I think it's sad that children and reading perhaps as much
0:42:23 > 0:42:28as they were in my generation all yours, but certainly there are so
0:42:28 > 0:42:35many other alternatives. It's a weird thing, because you have a
0:42:35 > 0:42:38huge, huge phenomenon of the really, really successful books and it
0:42:38 > 0:42:45becomes like the Harry Potter books are a global thing, and yet on an
0:42:45 > 0:42:48everyday basis am fully aware children aren't reading as much as
0:42:48 > 0:42:53they used to.Because they are on their phones and an apps.They are
0:42:53 > 0:42:58indeed.Let me ask you about the real-life element of the stories you
0:42:58 > 0:43:03write. I don't know if you like the word critique, but that's a word
0:43:03 > 0:43:09that comes to mind.I think they are gritty.Yes, I think that's a good
0:43:09 > 0:43:14thing. Some people say you shouldn't necessarily expose children to
0:43:14 > 0:43:16divorce, bullying, death, because it takes away their childhood. What do
0:43:16 > 0:43:22you say to that?I absolutely understand this but I think adults
0:43:22 > 0:43:27are kidding themselves if they don't realise that children are wearable
0:43:27 > 0:43:32these things, if not through their peers in the playground, or the
0:43:32 > 0:43:36other things they do watch on television, on YouTube. I think if
0:43:36 > 0:43:43you deal with these things as responsibly as you can, not putting
0:43:43 > 0:43:46in a horrible gratuitous details, trying to do it from a child's point
0:43:46 > 0:43:51of view and trying to be reassuring, I think it does help. But also, and
0:43:51 > 0:43:57I don't want to have this depressing sort of little self-help books for
0:43:57 > 0:44:00children, I want them to be entertaining, I want them to be fun
0:44:00 > 0:44:05as well, but to show that nowadays children do half to cope with quite
0:44:05 > 0:44:10a lot of things, but it isn't necessarily all gloom and despair,
0:44:10 > 0:44:14you can get through difficult situations.Luke says how did you
0:44:14 > 0:44:19come up with the idea for Tracey Beaker?That was because I think the
0:44:19 > 0:44:23rules have changed and suddenly in local newspapers use of photographs
0:44:23 > 0:44:29of real children in care homes, who they were looking for foster parents
0:44:29 > 0:44:34for. I saw these photos of these endearing kids, some of them smiling
0:44:34 > 0:44:37so hopefully, some sticking their tongues out and mucking around and I
0:44:37 > 0:44:43thought, what must it be like to be a child in this circumstance? And
0:44:43 > 0:44:47being a writer I thought immediately, a good subject for a
0:44:47 > 0:44:52book! I reset and luckily enough I have a dear friend who works for the
0:44:52 > 0:44:56fostering network, so I could make sure my facts were right. I found
0:44:56 > 0:45:02writing about Tracey Beaker a lot of fun.What do you think about, in
0:45:02 > 0:45:08terms of primary school in particular, the literacy element of
0:45:08 > 0:45:13the curriculum?I think it's a shame, in that there was a
0:45:13 > 0:45:18particularly wonderful traditional children's festival I used to take
0:45:18 > 0:45:22part in every year, and then suddenly hardly any schools were
0:45:22 > 0:45:26coming and missing out the chance of meeting about 20 different authors,
0:45:26 > 0:45:31seeing plays and doing all sorts of book quizzes. The organiser phoned
0:45:31 > 0:45:35up the school is and why, why don't you want any more? They said, we
0:45:35 > 0:45:39have to do our literacy lesson. It just seemed ironic that we can't
0:45:39 > 0:45:45just... We are so prescriptive now, we have to do things in a certain
0:45:45 > 0:45:52way. I feel sorry for teachers, because they can't necessarily... If
0:45:52 > 0:45:56some particular topic happens, they content, whole we could read about
0:45:56 > 0:46:00this or write a poem about it or whatever they have more or less to
0:46:00 > 0:46:05stick to the curriculum. Obviously we want all our children to be
0:46:05 > 0:46:09literate, but we also, I would think I want them to enjoy reading and
0:46:09 > 0:46:18writing.Can you not do both?
0:46:18 > 0:46:21BeakerCertainly children are told to write in a particular way and
0:46:21 > 0:46:25remember how many paragraphs to put and to put in different clauses.Do
0:46:25 > 0:46:31you think they don't need to know what a subordinate clause is?I
0:46:31 > 0:46:35don't think they do, as long as it is reasonably clearly expressed.
0:46:35 > 0:46:38Unless you are going to grow up and write government papers, who needs
0:46:38 > 0:46:45this sort of thing?Natalie says, "I want to say thank you to Jacqueline
0:46:45 > 0:46:48Wilson, I was taken into foster care as a child. I went through a period
0:46:48 > 0:47:00of not wanting to talk to anyone. I read the Bed And Breakfast Star. I
0:47:00 > 0:47:03was able to get a passion for English from this and I tried
0:47:03 > 0:47:07harder. I was able to make it through a teaching degree at
0:47:07 > 0:47:15university in the end."I have got prickles up and down my arm. Oh,
0:47:15 > 0:47:20Natalie, you're wonderful and I'm glad that reading has actually
0:47:20 > 0:47:27helped you become such a high achieving person.Brendan says,
0:47:27 > 0:47:32"Congratulations to Ms Wilson, well deserved award. BBC children's is
0:47:32 > 0:47:38the best in the world and it is appreciated by adults." Are there
0:47:38 > 0:47:42some areas, subject areas that you wouldn't tackle, sexual abuse for
0:47:42 > 0:47:47example?I think you have to be extremely careful. I certainly would
0:47:47 > 0:47:54shy away from such complex and difficult subject and you have to
0:47:54 > 0:48:00remember that although perhaps 95% of children would be upset by
0:48:00 > 0:48:06something, but then move on. I wouldn't like to seriously disturb
0:48:06 > 0:48:14any child. I think if you feel there is a burning need to write about
0:48:14 > 0:48:19something then do it as appropriate way as you can because we've all got
0:48:19 > 0:48:28to be responsible and my goodness me, I remember as a little girl
0:48:28 > 0:48:32watching things and it doesn't do to have a vivid imagination when you go
0:48:32 > 0:48:36to bed and have nightmares, I wouldn't want any television
0:48:36 > 0:48:39adaptations of my books to have that effect on children.Thank you very
0:48:39 > 0:48:43much for talking to us and congratulations again.Thank you,
0:48:43 > 0:48:44Victoria.
0:48:49 > 0:48:50Coming up:
0:48:50 > 0:48:53We'll have the latest from Leeds, as the five victims of a crash that
0:48:53 > 0:49:00saw a stolen car smash into a tree in a city suburb are named.
0:49:00 > 0:49:05The British ex-wife of a man in Islamic State describes her journey
0:49:05 > 0:49:09out of extremism. She met her husband John online and they
0:49:09 > 0:49:14connected over their Islamist views. They moved to Syria with their
0:49:14 > 0:49:25children to join IS. But Tanya decided she wanted out. She has been
0:49:25 > 0:49:29speaking to a BBC Asian Network correspondent.My name is Tanya. For
0:49:29 > 0:49:46a decade I was an Islamic extremist. I'm hoping to counter his ideology.
0:49:46 > 0:49:49In the late 1990s, Tanya went to harrow. I grew up here myself and
0:49:49 > 0:49:53went to school three miles down the road. I didn't know her at the time,
0:49:53 > 0:49:57but know many people who did, they described her as a normal teenager.
0:49:57 > 0:50:00They say she sometimes had boyfriends and played truant from
0:50:00 > 0:50:05school. She wasn't known to be especially religious. So when did it
0:50:05 > 0:50:10change?I turned to religion when I was 17. I wanted to change my
0:50:10 > 0:50:15identity. I didn't want to be Tanya from harrow anymore. I wanted to be
0:50:15 > 0:50:18someone that people didn't call a tart. So it gave me a structure in
0:50:18 > 0:50:24my life that I needed and it helped me feel like I belonged somewhere
0:50:24 > 0:50:35like a family or community.
0:50:35 > 0:50:38Like a family or a community that embraced me.
0:50:38 > 0:50:40As long as I complied to what they were comfortable with Islamically.
0:50:40 > 0:50:43In her late teens and early twenties Tania mixed with various
0:50:43 > 0:50:44radical groups in London.
0:50:44 > 0:50:45radical groups in London.
0:50:45 > 0:50:47It changed the way she looked at the world.
0:50:47 > 0:50:49Our minds were being filled with these images,
0:50:49 > 0:50:50terrible disturbing images.
0:50:50 > 0:50:53They would give examples of what happened in Srebrenica and Bosnia.
0:50:53 > 0:50:55We were made to view this shared sense of guilt
0:50:55 > 0:50:58because we were community and it was our duty to do something.
0:50:58 > 0:51:02And that something was jihad.
0:51:02 > 0:51:07I looked up to Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, anyone that was trying
0:51:07 > 0:51:09to protect Muslims, protect the honour of Muslims.
0:51:09 > 0:51:12What made me particularly depressed about 7/7 was that
0:51:12 > 0:51:19Shahara Islam was on the bus.
0:51:19 > 0:51:23And she had been a classmate of mine in my lower class.
0:51:23 > 0:51:25I just thought it was very unfair that somebody should
0:51:25 > 0:51:33lose their life that young.
0:51:33 > 0:51:35An innocent Muslim dies and an innocent non-Muslim dies.
0:51:35 > 0:51:37That was how we justified it.
0:51:37 > 0:51:40It's wrong but that was the way of thinking back then.
0:51:40 > 0:51:43By the time of 7/7 she was married to John Georgelas,
0:51:43 > 0:51:47he was an American convert she had met online.
0:51:47 > 0:51:50He was clearly intelligent, he was charming, he was my first
0:51:50 > 0:52:00love, and we were best friends.
0:52:00 > 0:52:09My way of contributing was raising sons that would grow up to be
0:52:09 > 0:52:12in the Mujahideen army or scholars and academics, I wanted them
0:52:12 > 0:52:13to contribute to the cause.
0:52:13 > 0:52:15They moved to the United States and had children.
0:52:15 > 0:52:18After the Arab uprisings in 2011, the family moved to Egypt.
0:52:18 > 0:52:21John thought it was an ideal place to raise their sons as jihadists
0:52:21 > 0:52:23but Tania was starting to have doubts.
0:52:23 > 0:52:25One day for some reason one of my sons came
0:52:25 > 0:52:31in with a grenade to show me.
0:52:31 > 0:52:35I don't think it was a working grenade, but I lost my temper
0:52:35 > 0:52:38and pulled out my kitchen knife at John, I was like,
0:52:38 > 0:52:40"Don't you ever do this again.
0:52:40 > 0:52:43I don't want my sons near these things.
0:52:43 > 0:52:48I don't want them near the guns".
0:52:53 > 0:52:55The buildings I stayed in, they were abandoned
0:52:55 > 0:52:59homes by ex-military.
0:52:59 > 0:53:01The windows had been blown out and every single night,
0:53:01 > 0:53:04I had become accustomed to hearing gunfire.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08It was hard.
0:53:08 > 0:53:11I mean, my marriage was breaking down, which was like my life
0:53:11 > 0:53:18at the time, and I didn't know what to do.
0:53:22 > 0:53:26There were bullets, like snipers in these towers,
0:53:26 > 0:53:32shooting, and we could see the bullets flying everywhere.
0:53:32 > 0:53:34I remember putting my kids through the barbed wire
0:53:34 > 0:53:36and seeing refugees, they were just guys,
0:53:36 > 0:53:40they were helping us as much as we could,
0:53:40 > 0:53:43I put the stroller in and then John passed me another baby.
0:53:43 > 0:53:45It was so scary.
0:53:48 > 0:53:54GUNFIRE.
0:54:03 > 0:54:08The last thing he told me, the last message, was,
0:54:08 > 0:54:14that he apologises for the wrong that he's done to me
0:54:14 > 0:54:17and the children, he prays that we will be Muslims,
0:54:17 > 0:54:20and that if I don't hear from him in six months,
0:54:20 > 0:54:22it's most likely because he's dead because he has to fight
0:54:22 > 0:54:27because the fight is drawing closer to where he lives.
0:54:30 > 0:54:34It was a relief to come back and not have to practise Islam.
0:54:34 > 0:54:40It was a nice break and it gave me the opportunity
0:54:40 > 0:54:42to just read other things, like other than just
0:54:42 > 0:54:44focusing on one subject, one area, just Islam,
0:54:44 > 0:54:47I got to focus on now all different religions.
0:54:47 > 0:54:54I had the freedom to think, that's what America gave me, without fear.
0:54:59 > 0:55:01Hi!
0:55:01 > 0:55:04How does it make you feel to look back at these photos
0:55:04 > 0:55:07and see your son and his father, who have been separated
0:55:07 > 0:55:08for four years?
0:55:08 > 0:55:13It makes me feel really sad.
0:55:13 > 0:55:18I feel worse for the children than I do for John,
0:55:18 > 0:55:20because he made his own decision and he got what he wanted
0:55:20 > 0:55:23at the end of the day.
0:55:23 > 0:55:26I wish I could turn everything around and go back but I have
0:55:26 > 0:55:27learned a lot from my mistakes.
0:55:27 > 0:55:29That's all you can do, isn't it?
0:55:29 > 0:55:33I regret the choices that I have made.
0:55:33 > 0:55:36Especially when it comes to my children.
0:55:36 > 0:55:38I just really wish I had had better intentions for them.
0:55:38 > 0:55:45I wish I had given them a stable lifestyle.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58Why should America give you a second chance,
0:55:58 > 0:56:00given all that you did to propagate extremism against this country?
0:56:00 > 0:56:03I didn't contribute to any violence but my ex-husband only
0:56:03 > 0:56:08did after I left him.
0:56:08 > 0:56:14I think they should give me a second chance because I realised
0:56:14 > 0:56:18I was wrong and I'd made a mistake, and I really want to make
0:56:18 > 0:56:20up for my mistakes.
0:56:20 > 0:56:24I would like to pursue a career where I can help
0:56:24 > 0:56:30rehabilitate extremist radicals, give them that sense of community
0:56:30 > 0:56:32and provide them with skills and education so that they can
0:56:32 > 0:56:37reintegrate into society and be good citizens.
0:56:37 > 0:56:40Jihadists need to be heard because if we don't
0:56:40 > 0:56:42know their arguments and how poor their arguments are,
0:56:42 > 0:56:45we're not going to be able to discuss and refute them.
0:56:45 > 0:56:48I think knowledge will free people from this idea
0:56:48 > 0:56:55of thinking that war and jihad and violence causes progression.
0:56:55 > 0:56:56It doesn't.
0:56:56 > 0:56:58It doesn't achieve anything.
0:56:58 > 0:57:01If you were to meet a woman who was thinking of going down
0:57:01 > 0:57:04the same path that you once took, what would you say to her?
0:57:04 > 0:57:08I'd say, I lost my family, I lost my home, I lost ten years
0:57:08 > 0:57:10of my life that I should have been working at towards my
0:57:10 > 0:57:14education and a career.
0:57:14 > 0:57:16I have four children who don't have a dad now.
0:57:16 > 0:57:23Is this the situation you want to be in?
0:57:23 > 0:57:28More on that on the Asian Network throughout the day.
0:57:28 > 0:57:31Let's get the latest weather update with Matt Taylor.
0:57:33 > 0:57:38December, of course, on Friday. The start of the winter as well. Nature
0:57:38 > 0:57:42has taken its lead early. Rather cold conditions to come for most of
0:57:42 > 0:57:45you this week. Temperatures below where they should be for the time of
0:57:45 > 0:57:49year and to go with that a mixture of sunshine and wintry showers
0:57:49 > 0:57:53possible just about anywhere by the time we get to Thursday, but there
0:57:53 > 0:57:58will be a lot of dry weather too. Out there, the mildest conditions of
0:57:58 > 0:58:03the week. Particularly in southern areas. Colder air is pushing down
0:58:03 > 0:58:07behind this cold front which brought a wet start today across southern
0:58:07 > 0:58:10counties. Notice this area of low pressure towards the east of
0:58:10 > 0:58:16Scotland. That's bringing strong winds. That will make it feel raw
0:58:16 > 0:58:20and the showers, a mixture of rain, hail, sleet and snow. Sleet and snow
0:58:20 > 0:58:23mixed in with the showers and hills of Northern Ireland and northern
0:58:23 > 0:58:26England, elsewhere, good breaks between the showers. A fair amount
0:58:26 > 0:58:31of sunshine. But into the afternoon, we've got
0:58:31 > 0:58:35the cold front still lingering across the Channel Islands. Blustery
0:58:35 > 0:58:42winds here. 11 Celsius in St Helier. Temperatures will drop through the
0:58:42 > 0:58:47afternoon and the start of the evening. Further showers continue
0:58:47 > 0:58:51across Wales and sleet and snow over the hills. The same too in Northern
0:58:51 > 0:58:53Ireland and to western and northern parts of Scotland. North-east
0:58:53 > 0:58:56Scotland, where you have got gales or severe gales continuing
0:58:56 > 0:59:01throughout. It will feel raw here. The winds remain blustery for all
0:59:01 > 0:59:06overnight. Temperatures holding around two Celsius in some of the
0:59:06 > 0:59:11towns and cities. Dropping below that in the countryside. It will be
0:59:11 > 0:59:16a chilly start to tomorrow morning. UK-wide. Showers across Northern
0:59:16 > 0:59:19Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales and sWention. Tomorrow morning
0:59:19 > 0:59:24starts off with sunshine. A lovely, crisp start, but it will feel
0:59:24 > 0:59:27chilly. Colder than this morning. Tomorrow, fewer showers in the west.
0:59:27 > 0:59:30There will be some in Northern Ireland and south-west England in
0:59:30 > 0:59:34particular. More showers across eastern counties of England and
0:59:34 > 0:59:39Eastern Scotland. These will turn wintry and with the strongest of the
0:59:39 > 0:59:42winds in eastern areas temperatures more like close to freezing. Some of
0:59:42 > 0:59:47the best of the weather tomorrow. That will be the same again on
0:59:47 > 0:59:50Wednesday. High pressure to the west of us, low pressure to the east. The
0:59:50 > 0:59:52door is open to the north winds which mean temperatures will
0:59:52 > 0:59:57continue to drop on Wednesday. Showers across the western fringes
0:59:57 > 1:00:00of Wales, and into Cornwall and further showers down eastern
1:00:00 > 1:00:03counties of England in particular. Again, they will turn wintry. A very
1:00:03 > 1:00:07raw feel. It will feel like temperatures around freezing for
1:00:07 > 1:00:11much of the country. Colder still on Thursday.
1:00:13 > 1:00:17Hello it's Monday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.
1:00:17 > 1:00:18Our top story today:
1:00:18 > 1:00:20Eight months after we first revealed that
1:00:20 > 1:00:23hundreds of women were suing manufacturers and the NHS over mesh
1:00:23 > 1:00:25implants they'd had - this programme has learned
1:00:25 > 1:00:28that the health watchdog is advising the NHS to ban the procedure
1:00:28 > 1:00:34for treating prolapse in England.
1:00:34 > 1:00:37On the basis of five out of ten, six out of ten pain,
1:00:37 > 1:00:40and then I have these pain attacks where nothing can touch it,
1:00:40 > 1:00:45even when I've been in an ambulance and had 20 mg of morphine
1:00:45 > 1:00:47it hasn't touched the pain.
1:00:47 > 1:00:50I literally have to sit on the floor and breathe through it,
1:00:50 > 1:00:54there is nothing I can do about it, I just have to wait for it to pass.
1:00:54 > 1:01:01A few are seeing -- a viewer e-mailed to say they had one and
1:01:01 > 1:01:09found a piece of it floating on the Bath. This stuff is Lee and
1:01:09 > 1:01:10shouldn't be put in the body.
1:01:10 > 1:01:11Also this morning:
1:01:11 > 1:01:14Thousands of people are being taken to court and threatened with prison
1:01:14 > 1:01:16over council tax arrears every year - we've an exclusive repor.
1:01:16 > 1:01:19I just didn't know what to expect, where I was.
1:01:19 > 1:01:21It was absolutely horrific.
1:01:21 > 1:01:23I was worrying about the kids.
1:01:23 > 1:01:27Nobody can prepare you for it.
1:01:35 > 1:01:38We'll hear from one council leader whose own authority started court
1:01:38 > 1:01:40proceedings threatening prison against 19 people over
1:01:40 > 1:01:44council tax debt.
1:01:44 > 1:01:48Six men have been in prison in southern India for four years over
1:01:48 > 1:01:51weapons charges. We find out shortly if they are to be released. I think
1:01:51 > 1:01:59we can talk to them straightaway, actually. Good morning Yvonne, the
1:01:59 > 1:02:03fiancee of Billy Irving and Joanne Tomlinson, sister of John. Have you
1:02:03 > 1:02:10heard?Yes, we've just had a text. We don't know, it's not confirmed,
1:02:10 > 1:02:13not come from the lawyer but from one of our friend who is at the
1:02:13 > 1:02:20court and said that all of them have been released!I'm still slightly
1:02:20 > 1:02:24apprehensive, until we hear from the lawyer for definite, but that's the
1:02:24 > 1:02:28news that we've just got. I'm just struggling to believe it until we
1:02:28 > 1:02:37get an official update.Text saying good news, all six have been
1:02:37 > 1:02:42released, our present worked. We have to wait for the lawyer to speak
1:02:42 > 1:02:47to us.And get the detail.You need official confirmation but a text
1:02:47 > 1:02:52from your friend in the court is telling you that all the men have
1:02:52 > 1:02:58been released?Yes, yes.Wow.I think until we hear officially from
1:02:58 > 1:03:05the lawyer, I wouldn't expect that to be incorrect information, but I
1:03:05 > 1:03:08think because it is such an important verdict, we do want
1:03:08 > 1:03:15confirmation from the legal team. Which is activity fair enough. Thank
1:03:15 > 1:03:19you Yvonne and Joanne for the moment. We will wait for that
1:03:19 > 1:03:22official confirmation. Fingers crossed. We will be back with you
1:03:22 > 1:03:26shortly. I can also bring you this news as well. Clarence House have
1:03:26 > 1:03:32just announced in the last few seconds that Prince Harry is to
1:03:32 > 1:03:35marry his American girlfriend Meghan Markle. Congratulations to them.
1:03:35 > 1:03:40Prince Harry is going to marry his American actress girlfriend, Meghan
1:03:40 > 1:03:45Markle. There has been speculation for months, particularly when it was
1:03:45 > 1:03:50reported she was moving her dogs from Canada to Britain, which some
1:03:50 > 1:03:53people took as absolute confirmation that of course they were going to
1:03:53 > 1:03:57get engaged to be married, because otherwise why would you be moving
1:03:57 > 1:04:02your dogs to far from home? Those kind of engagement rumours have been
1:04:02 > 1:04:07at fever pitch, depending on which website newspaper you read. But it
1:04:07 > 1:04:11has been confirmed in the last few moments from Clarence House that
1:04:11 > 1:04:16Prince Harry is going to get married and is marrying his American actress
1:04:16 > 1:04:25girlfriend, Meghan Markle. Wasn't long ago he warned the media off
1:04:25 > 1:04:30reporting on her every move, it seemed. He sent as very strongly
1:04:30 > 1:04:35worded statement saying they should effectively leave her alone, clearly
1:04:35 > 1:04:41with the experience of what happened to his own mother he stepped in very
1:04:41 > 1:04:48early on to effectively urge for her privacy. I suspect that websites,
1:04:48 > 1:04:53broadcasters, radio stations, newspapers will be full of this
1:04:53 > 1:04:56news, despite that plea from six months or so ago, because Prince
1:04:56 > 1:05:03Harry is going to marry his American girlfriend Meghan Markle. We will
1:05:03 > 1:05:07bring you reaction to that news. Some websites and newspapers were on
1:05:07 > 1:05:14stand-by for this, because quite a lot of people like a royal wedding.
1:05:14 > 1:05:18It doesn't say when in the statement. A very short statement
1:05:18 > 1:05:23from Clarence House. Just that they are to get married a potentially
1:05:23 > 1:05:26next year, you'd have thought, wouldn't you?
1:05:26 > 1:05:26next year, you'd have thought, wouldn't you?
1:05:28 > 1:05:36-- Prince Harry getting engaged. No details as to when or where. They
1:05:36 > 1:05:42have been going out for over a year or so, if my memory serves me
1:05:42 > 1:05:48correctly. The rumours around whether they were going to get
1:05:48 > 1:05:57engaged at fever pitch. I'm just going to bring you a few more
1:05:57 > 1:06:02details about the both of them, if you will bear with me on second. You
1:06:02 > 1:06:06may have read in one of the Sunday papers that it was supposed to be
1:06:06 > 1:06:11announced last Thursday, because apparently the Prime Minister
1:06:11 > 1:06:15Theresa May had cleared her schedule for a possible engagement
1:06:15 > 1:06:21announcement. That obviously didn't happen. And they have just announced
1:06:21 > 1:06:30it in the last few minutes. Prince Harry is to marry Meghan Markle.
1:06:33 > 1:06:40Parboil editor Nicholas Witchel is here on his phone. Hello.Hello.
1:06:40 > 1:06:45Prince Harry is getting married. Yes, finally announced, the wedding
1:06:45 > 1:06:49in spring of next year. Further details about the wedding will be
1:06:49 > 1:06:55announced in due course. They became engaged apparently earlier this
1:06:55 > 1:06:59month, in London. We don't know much more about that. Prince Harry has
1:06:59 > 1:07:04informed the Queen and other close members of his family. Prince Harry
1:07:04 > 1:07:12has also sought and received the blessing of Meghan Markle's parents,
1:07:12 > 1:07:19who are in the United States. They will live at the cottage in
1:07:19 > 1:07:23Kensington Palace. The wedding in the spring, presumably after the
1:07:23 > 1:07:31arrival of his brother's new baby. Spring.So it will be Westminster
1:07:31 > 1:07:36Abbey or St Paul's?We don't know. That raises the interesting question
1:07:36 > 1:07:42as to whether it can be a church wedding, because she is a divorcee.
1:07:42 > 1:07:48It becomes a matter for the Archbishop of Canterbury. Archbishop
1:07:48 > 1:07:52Justin Welby has indicated he is not adverse to the idea of a church
1:07:52 > 1:07:57wedding. I think it is possible for the charge, given Harry was not
1:07:57 > 1:08:00involved in the break-up of her marriage, they didn't even know each
1:08:00 > 1:08:06other at the time. So it is another indication of how far the British
1:08:06 > 1:08:11establishment has moved, that the Church of England quite possibly
1:08:11 > 1:08:17will sanction and perform a church wedding. The other really striking
1:08:17 > 1:08:22thing is a significant member of the Royal family marrying an American
1:08:22 > 1:08:27divorcee, who is, as she says, proudly, a strong, confident mixed
1:08:27 > 1:08:34race woman. That is the other extraordinary thing. That all the
1:08:34 > 1:08:39confrontations and resonance of an American divorcee caused on King to
1:08:39 > 1:08:44give up his throne. A long time ago... 80 years ago. Within the
1:08:44 > 1:08:52royal family there be just that... Oooh... But it is sending a strong
1:08:52 > 1:08:59signal of how far society, the Royal family, all of us have moved.Bill
1:08:59 > 1:09:03Royle family specifically how far they have moved, perhaps less so for
1:09:03 > 1:09:07society. -- the Royal family. The question of whether they will be
1:09:07 > 1:09:11married in a church because she is a divorcee, my understanding is it is
1:09:11 > 1:09:17down to the parish vicar.Yes.An individual decision because each
1:09:17 > 1:09:20individual parish has its own rules depending on how liberal or
1:09:20 > 1:09:27otherwise the vicar is.Westminster Abbey is a royal peculiar so the
1:09:27 > 1:09:31Dean of Westminster can essentially do what he likes. But I think in
1:09:31 > 1:09:35this instance it will be a matter for the Archbishop to decide. It
1:09:35 > 1:09:40would be very curious for them to go off to some small parish somewhere.
1:09:40 > 1:09:46There are all sorts of candidates for a church wedding if it is to be
1:09:46 > 1:09:50a church wedding. St Paul's, as you say... The guards Chapel, which is
1:09:50 > 1:09:54much smaller, where Harry made a memorable speech on the tenth
1:09:54 > 1:10:00anniversary of his mother's death. Also St George 's Chapel at Windsor,
1:10:00 > 1:10:06a rather more intimate setting, a rather smaller and more family
1:10:06 > 1:10:12orientated environment. The further details about the wedding day will
1:10:12 > 1:10:16be announced in due course. I'm quite sure they will have given
1:10:16 > 1:10:22close consideration to that. I have no doubt Archbishop Justin Welby has
1:10:22 > 1:10:25been consulted, because I think we were certainly hearing rumours he
1:10:25 > 1:10:30had been sounded out as to the possibility of there being a church
1:10:30 > 1:10:34wedding and weather in view of the fact she is a divorcee, whether the
1:10:34 > 1:10:37Church of England would feel able to perform a church wedding. I think,
1:10:37 > 1:10:43as I said, he has indicated it is not a problem.How old is Prince
1:10:43 > 1:10:53Harry, early 30s?33. She is 36. They met in June of last year. Her
1:10:53 > 1:11:01father over to her -- a retired cameraman from Hollywood and she and
1:11:01 > 1:11:05actress somewhat of a retired actress now.Her life is going to
1:11:05 > 1:11:13change dramatically.It is. One might suppose that her acting career
1:11:13 > 1:11:18puts her in a better position to cope with the public facing nature
1:11:18 > 1:11:24of the role she will take on. She clearly is motivated about having a
1:11:24 > 1:11:32public career. A charitable career. She is already quite noted for her
1:11:32 > 1:11:41contributions as the UN woman of the year, or in that sort of forum. So
1:11:41 > 1:11:43she is confident about putting herself out there in the public
1:11:43 > 1:11:49domain. But I sense there will need to be an adjustment to the public
1:11:49 > 1:11:52domain here in the United Kingdom, rather than the public domain and
1:11:52 > 1:11:57the United States, which is what she is used to. I think she has spent
1:11:57 > 1:12:02very little time in this country and the intelligent woman she is, she
1:12:02 > 1:12:07will need a little adaptation.It wasn't that long ago that he
1:12:07 > 1:12:11released a very strongly worded statement to members of the media,
1:12:11 > 1:12:15effectively asking them to back off following her around.Yes. Indeed it
1:12:15 > 1:12:22was. About this time last year, I think, that that long statement was
1:12:22 > 1:12:30issued on his behalf. Whether it was entirely wise in a sense... It
1:12:30 > 1:12:34sounded rather vexed.He felt strongly about it, for obvious
1:12:34 > 1:12:40reasons.Members of the Royal family feel strongly about all sorts of
1:12:40 > 1:12:43things but don't necessarily put out a page long statement but he was
1:12:43 > 1:12:47clearly determined to protect her from some of the innuendo they felt
1:12:47 > 1:12:51was appearing in some of the coverage, to do with her mixed-race
1:12:51 > 1:12:56ancestry. But then, of course, not so long ago she gives an interview
1:12:56 > 1:13:03to an American magazine saying yes, we are in love. So there is a little
1:13:03 > 1:13:13bit of attention, volunteering herself for an interview in a mass
1:13:13 > 1:13:17circulated publication.When you are in love, you are in love, and she is
1:13:17 > 1:13:21enough with Prince Harry, of course you want to shout it from the
1:13:21 > 1:13:26rooftops!Of course, and now we all know they are.Wedding in the
1:13:26 > 1:13:34spring. We await confirmation of exactly where. But the build-up to
1:13:34 > 1:13:39organising that is going to consumer not only the Royal family but many
1:13:39 > 1:13:45members of the media for the next however many months. We note some
1:13:45 > 1:13:48people don't like over the top reporting about royal weddings but
1:13:48 > 1:13:54it's going to happen!It is, yes. And we are mindful of the fact that
1:13:54 > 1:13:58not everybody is a monarchist, not everybody will be carried away with
1:13:58 > 1:14:05excitement about this, but a good many people will. You can be sure
1:14:05 > 1:14:10that the magazines and particularly the American broadcasters are going
1:14:10 > 1:14:19to get very excited.Wow, they really will.An American marrying
1:14:19 > 1:14:23into the British Royal family, fifth in line to the throne, though he
1:14:23 > 1:14:27will slip down to six once the Cambridges have their third baby.
1:14:27 > 1:14:32One would have thought that Meghan Markle would have had significant
1:14:32 > 1:14:37conversations with the Duchess of Cambridge about the change that is
1:14:37 > 1:14:40about to happen. You know, the transformation that is about to
1:14:40 > 1:14:45happen in her life.Yes, I'm sure she has that dynamic will be an
1:14:45 > 1:14:49important one. We know how close and Harry are, so she is now entering
1:14:49 > 1:14:55not just a marriage with Harry, but the family relationship and the
1:14:55 > 1:15:00particular family dynamic which will be important will be with William
1:15:00 > 1:15:08and Catherine, because I think Harry has felt rather lonely and solitary
1:15:08 > 1:15:12over these recent years, when he has seen William and Catherine happily
1:15:12 > 1:15:19married with their growing family. I think that is certainly underlined
1:15:19 > 1:15:25Harry's solitude, as it were. I think he is 33 and he's been keen to
1:15:25 > 1:15:30find the right person. There were two other people who were clearly
1:15:30 > 1:15:37significant in his life, but neither of those relationships worked out,
1:15:37 > 1:15:44as we know. So in June of last year he met this actress, Meghan Markle,
1:15:44 > 1:15:48Tony was introduced. Apparently he was a great fan of hers from the
1:15:48 > 1:15:54Suits, the drama she was in and soon-to-be married.Have you watched
1:15:54 > 1:15:59it?I confess I haven't, notes.Why doesn't that surprise me?!No, I
1:15:59 > 1:16:00haven't.
1:16:05 > 1:16:13I have a statement from Meghan Markle's parents actually. Thomas
1:16:13 > 1:16:17Markle. They have said they are incredibly happy with the couple's
1:16:17 > 1:16:22engagement adding, "We wish them a lifetime of happiness." So Meghan
1:16:22 > 1:16:27Markle's parents really, really happy. Delighted at the news. We
1:16:27 > 1:16:33wish them a lifetime of happiness say Meghan Markle's parents.Indeed,
1:16:33 > 1:16:36there is a statement from the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. They have
1:16:36 > 1:16:47said, "We are very excited for happy and Meghan it has been wonderful
1:16:47 > 1:16:57getting to know Meghan and seeing how happy she and Harry are.
1:16:57 > 1:17:02It will be important to Harry and Meghan to adjust and feel that they
1:17:02 > 1:17:06are comfortable with each other.I'm going to bring in a former royal
1:17:06 > 1:17:11bodyguard. Good morning to you.Good morning, Nick.How do you react to
1:17:11 > 1:17:18this happy news?I think it's good news for Harry. Certainly good news
1:17:18 > 1:17:22for his brother. I must admit I thought he might wait until January
1:17:22 > 1:17:29or February and let the celebrations of his granny's continue, but it was
1:17:29 > 1:17:33always on the cards and what is interesting here, it is going to be
1:17:33 > 1:17:37a massive change for her, certainly, moving into the Royal Family, but
1:17:37 > 1:17:44the great thing about the Royal Family, it has changed over the last
1:17:44 > 1:17:5020 or 30 years and become a much more modernistic piece of royalty. I
1:17:50 > 1:18:01think it will be great fun moving into it. I am pleased for Harry. He
1:18:01 > 1:18:05is a greater celebrity to Meghan Markle and that's what endears him
1:18:05 > 1:18:11to the public whether you are a republicist or a monarchist.It is
1:18:11 > 1:18:14wonderful that they found each other and they are moving forwards in
1:18:14 > 1:18:17their life together particularly when you think about how open he has
1:18:17 > 1:18:21been in the last 12 months when he talked about the death of his mother
1:18:21 > 1:18:25for the first time publicly really and the impact, the impact that that
1:18:25 > 1:18:35has had on him growing up.Well, I think certainly what's happened, we
1:18:35 > 1:18:39have seen he and his brother speak very publicly over the past 12
1:18:39 > 1:18:47months. This is classic Harry. I just think that's it's great for him
1:18:47 > 1:18:52and it's great for his brother. It would appear that they have got
1:18:52 > 1:18:55complete support from every member of the Royal Family. I just think he
1:18:55 > 1:19:00found Meghan in the way that his brother found Kate. There was no
1:19:00 > 1:19:05more arranged marriages. You could say his own mother was the last of
1:19:05 > 1:19:08the arranged marred Anltion, the one that didn't work and this is a new
1:19:08 > 1:19:17beginning and I wish him well.Thank you very much for talking to us. Ken
1:19:17 > 1:19:22Wharf a former bodyguard for Princess Diana. Prince Harry is
1:19:22 > 1:19:28going to marry his American actress girlfriend, Meghan Markle. We will
1:19:28 > 1:19:33bring you more reaction. Before that, we will go back to the
1:19:33 > 1:19:37breaking news in the last few minutes that we've had confirmation
1:19:37 > 1:19:43that six British menks known as the Chennai six, accused of arms
1:19:43 > 1:19:47smuggling have been acquitted by an Indian court. Let's speak again to
1:19:47 > 1:19:57some of their families.
1:19:57 > 1:19:59Yvonne Machugh is the fiance of Billy Irving.
1:19:59 > 1:20:07Joanne Thomlinson is the sister of John Armstrong.
1:20:07 > 1:20:11We spoke to you after you had a text from a friend who was in the
1:20:11 > 1:20:14courtroom, but it wasn't officially confirmed. So you were hoping and
1:20:14 > 1:20:18hoping and hoping it was true. And now it is true. The men are going to
1:20:18 > 1:20:22be released.It has been confirmed by the lawyers, yes. I was so
1:20:22 > 1:20:25nervous of giving the wrong news or that I was going to be saying
1:20:25 > 1:20:30something incorrect which is why I looked so uncomposed earlier, but we
1:20:30 > 1:20:36wanted to make sure it was 100% true. All 35 men that are in prison
1:20:36 > 1:20:43in India have been cleared. Wow.
1:20:43 > 1:20:48How do you react, Yvonne?How do you react? I don't know. I don't know
1:20:48 > 1:20:56how I feel. I feel sheer relief. Finally we're getting our family
1:20:56 > 1:21:01back together. Finally all the men are going to be home with their
1:21:01 > 1:21:06families. They have been acquitted of all charges so they have done no
1:21:06 > 1:21:10wrongdoing and we have proven that will. And we have praoven it in
1:21:10 > 1:21:16court and we will get them home. I don't know. I'm so happy and just so
1:21:16 > 1:21:20relieved that everything that we've done hasn't been in vain and that we
1:21:20 > 1:21:27have got them home finally.I think we have the moment when you did
1:21:27 > 1:21:30initially hear and we're just going to play this for our audience now if
1:21:30 > 1:21:36that's all right. Let's look at this.
1:21:36 > 1:21:52Is mum OK? OK. I love you. I'll phone you later, OK? Bye.
1:21:52 > 1:21:57That's really you two still trying to find out for sure to be fair.
1:21:57 > 1:22:01This, for the people who don't know this story. This has been four years
1:22:01 > 1:22:04now, that they have been in jail, you have been fighting for four
1:22:04 > 1:22:11years to get them home. Your fiancee, your brother, they were
1:22:11 > 1:22:17security guards, they were on a ship. The ship had gone into
1:22:17 > 1:22:21southern Indian Ocean waters and the paperwork was checked and everything
1:22:21 > 1:22:24was fine and then suddenly things change add couple of weeks later.
1:22:24 > 1:22:29Just fill our audience in with what happened with the twists and turns
1:22:29 > 1:22:32over the last few years?So the ship was called into port by the
1:22:32 > 1:22:36coastguard. The captain declared there were weapons on board. The
1:22:36 > 1:22:40coastguard brought them into port and then searched the ship for a
1:22:40 > 1:22:44week. Took all the men off the ship and said because they had been held
1:22:44 > 1:22:49on the ship for a week they had been tone a hospital and they were taken
1:22:49 > 1:22:54straight to prison and that was all 35 men from the chef to the captain
1:22:54 > 1:22:58that were on board the ship. Since then we have had only what can be
1:22:58 > 1:23:01described as a legal roller-coaster. The men were held without charge and
1:23:01 > 1:23:04charged three months later and released on bail and the charges
1:23:04 > 1:23:08were dropped against them in 2014. But there were then held in India
1:23:08 > 1:23:14without charge for 18 months because the police appealed to the Supreme
1:23:14 > 1:23:17Court against the charges being quashed and that led to the men
1:23:17 > 1:23:22standing trial and being convicted to five years last January. We
1:23:22 > 1:23:25launched appeal quickly to the High Court against the conviction in
1:23:25 > 1:23:28February last year and this is just getting the verdict right now for
1:23:28 > 1:23:35that appeal.Wow. Yvonne, you and Billy have a little boy, William,
1:23:35 > 1:23:40I've met him. Now is he now?He will be three at the end of February.He
1:23:40 > 1:23:44doesn't know yet that his dad is coming home.He doesn't, no. I sent
1:23:44 > 1:23:49him to nursery this morning. He is with my mum. So, I just wanted
1:23:49 > 1:23:53everything to be as normal as possible. Obviously, if the news
1:23:53 > 1:23:58broke and it want in our favour, I didn't want him to see mum upset or
1:23:58 > 1:24:01for anything to change, but now I can go home and let him know that
1:24:01 > 1:24:09his dad is coming home. Wow. Do you have any idea when?No,
1:24:09 > 1:24:14we don't. So obviously the charges were quashed against the men and
1:24:14 > 1:24:20they were released in 2014 and they weren't allowed to leave the country
1:24:20 > 1:24:24at that point. They still need to get police clearance before they can
1:24:24 > 1:24:27come home. So there are steps being taken to try to ensure that
1:24:27 > 1:24:30everything is in place that they can come back as quickly as possible,
1:24:30 > 1:24:36but we don't have a time frame for that yet.OK.
1:24:36 > 1:24:41So Billy, Yvonne, has only seen your little boy when you have made trips
1:24:41 > 1:24:45out there?Yeah, that's right. So he has never had a day at home with his
1:24:45 > 1:24:50son. I went over when William was three months old and we saw Billy
1:24:50 > 1:24:54then. He was actually out, the all the charges had been dropped at that
1:24:54 > 1:24:58point so he was out of prison and able to enjoy two weeks with his son
1:24:58 > 1:25:03in India. After that, the second two times I have been out there he has
1:25:03 > 1:25:08been in prison. So it has been behind bars that he saw his son. So,
1:25:08 > 1:25:13it will be hugely emotional for Billy and for myself and I think our
1:25:13 > 1:25:18whole family to see them both together and just to be a family
1:25:18 > 1:25:22again and that Billy can start building a bond like a father should
1:25:22 > 1:25:27have with his son and get to take him to nursery and just everything,
1:25:27 > 1:25:30play football, everything we have always dreamed of that we can do as
1:25:30 > 1:25:39a family really. So, yes.Amazing. Amazing. I know Joanne you have got
1:25:39 > 1:25:44back fromivity having John, how was he?That's right. So he was staying
1:25:44 > 1:25:48incredibly strong. He was in quite good spirits. At the point I went
1:25:48 > 1:25:52over to India, we weren't aware there was going to be any movement
1:25:52 > 1:25:56in court, it was a coincidence when I was there, we found out that there
1:25:56 > 1:26:00would be a judge's verdict within 14 days. I think he was sceptical about
1:26:00 > 1:26:03it. We have had four years of ups and downs and he was really trying
1:26:03 > 1:26:08to remain level about the whole thing and not get his hopes up
1:26:08 > 1:26:14because the fall if your hopes is dashed is so much further. So, he
1:26:14 > 1:26:18was looking remarkably well and healthy, but I just, I wish I could
1:26:18 > 1:26:21see the reaction of those men when they found out that they are going
1:26:21 > 1:26:25to be released.Yvonne, I think you have just returned from visiting
1:26:25 > 1:26:29Billy, is that right?That's right, myself and Joanne went out together.
1:26:29 > 1:26:37Sorry. How was he?He was fantastic to be honest with you. He was making
1:26:37 > 1:26:42me laugh. He was reassuring me that he was OK, but you could see there
1:26:42 > 1:26:50was a sadness in his eyes that is still there four years on and he
1:26:50 > 1:26:53didn't really know what to expect from the verdict and his thoughts
1:26:53 > 1:26:58were the worst because the worst has always happened to them, but he
1:26:58 > 1:27:02didn't hold out much hope for this at all. So, I just wish I could
1:27:02 > 1:27:08phone him and speak to him.Will you get that chance, do you think? No.
1:27:08 > 1:27:12Well, look, it won't be too long before they are back. We are so
1:27:12 > 1:27:16pleased for you.Thank you so much. Thank you so much, and thank you for
1:27:16 > 1:27:19the support over the last years. It has been incredible, thank you.
1:27:19 > 1:27:26Well, you didn't give up. So well done you. Thank you so much. Yvonne
1:27:26 > 1:27:32the fiancee of Billy and the sister of John Armstrong. They are known
1:27:32 > 1:27:38along with four other men as the Chennai six. A group of six British
1:27:38 > 1:27:42men alongside various other nationalities, Estonians and
1:27:42 > 1:27:48Indians, 35 in total who have been held in jail for four years now
1:27:48 > 1:27:53after, I mean what would you say, a gross misunderstanding, but in jail
1:27:53 > 1:27:56for four years, but they have been told their appeal has been
1:27:56 > 1:28:01successful and they are going to be released. They will be on their way
1:28:01 > 1:28:09home in the not too distant future. The Royal Family has announced the
1:28:09 > 1:28:14engagement of Prince Harry to his American girlfriend, Meghan Markle.
1:28:14 > 1:28:18The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh are delighted for the couple and
1:28:18 > 1:28:22wish them every happiness, a Buckingham Palace spokesman said.
1:28:22 > 1:28:26Nicholas Witchell is back with us. So more statements. More messages of
1:28:26 > 1:28:30congratulations. What do we know about the wedding arrangements?Very
1:28:30 > 1:28:34little. We don't know that it will be a church wedding as we were
1:28:34 > 1:28:39discussing earlier. All we know is it will take place in spring 2018. I
1:28:39 > 1:28:43think that's probably May, given that William and Catherine's baby is
1:28:43 > 1:28:49due in April. So, that will obviously take its course and Harry
1:28:49 > 1:28:55and Meghan will want to have an interval of a couple of weeks
1:28:55 > 1:28:58perhaps after the baby is born. I would have thought May would be a
1:28:58 > 1:29:03good bet for a spring 2018 wedding, but for a venue, we don't know. Will
1:29:03 > 1:29:06it be in the church? I would have thought it probably will be, but
1:29:06 > 1:29:10that as we were saying is a matter for the church of England because
1:29:10 > 1:29:18she is a divorcee. And in terms of an American woman, a
1:29:18 > 1:29:23divorcee, marrying into the Royal Family, it has happened before, the
1:29:23 > 1:29:28times are very, very different. What is the significance of that?I think
1:29:28 > 1:29:35it's significant Victoria on a number of levels. The fact that she
1:29:35 > 1:29:42is an American dwersee, it is 80 years since that brought down a
1:29:42 > 1:29:45king, Edward VIII had to give up the throne. How different are the times
1:29:45 > 1:29:52now? It is not only that, but she is a woman of mixed race. She has an
1:29:52 > 1:29:59African-American mother. So that makes this a different union and
1:29:59 > 1:30:04many people, I think, will say that that sends a very positive signal
1:30:04 > 1:30:08now about the British Royal Family that a significant member of it,
1:30:08 > 1:30:14fifth in line to the throne at the moment, but he is moving down, feels
1:30:14 > 1:30:20able to take this step and to marry an American divorcee who is a woman
1:30:20 > 1:30:24of mixed race. Now, I think, you know, in the public reaction to that
1:30:24 > 1:30:29will be interesting, but I would have thought that it would be
1:30:29 > 1:30:31overwhelmingly positive because quite clearly they are very much in
1:30:31 > 1:30:38love as she has said in a magazine interview recently. He, I think is
1:30:38 > 1:30:42keen to settle down. He is 33 and I am sure they will be starting their
1:30:42 > 1:30:50own family very quickly.In terms of her background, Prince Harry in a
1:30:50 > 1:30:54strongly worded statement last year, effectively called out people who
1:30:54 > 1:31:00were making racist comments about her.Yes, this unpleasant innuendo
1:31:00 > 1:31:06in some of the coverage. Clearly and understandably he found this deeply
1:31:06 > 1:31:10offensive and challenged it head on. A very long statement, which some
1:31:10 > 1:31:14people certainly at the time thought was rather overstated, but it was
1:31:14 > 1:31:18something they felt deeply and passionately about and he was
1:31:18 > 1:31:24clearly very motivated to come to her protection. I think was
1:31:24 > 1:31:30affronted by the sorts of comments that some newspapers were making.
1:31:30 > 1:31:36Harry, I think, is more impetuous than his brother. Acts quickly,
1:31:36 > 1:31:40perhaps thinks a bit later, but this is something he felt he wanted to
1:31:40 > 1:31:45take a stand over and he did. Then some months later she herself gave
1:31:45 > 1:31:50that interview to Vanity fair magazine in which she declared, yes,
1:31:50 > 1:31:53he's my boyfriend and we are in love.They haven't been going out
1:31:53 > 1:32:04that long, may 2016.June, yes. The statement from Clarence House in the
1:32:04 > 1:32:07name of the Prince of Wales, delighted to announce the engagement
1:32:07 > 1:32:13of Prince Harry. It says they became engaged in London earlier this
1:32:13 > 1:32:16month. All the talk that they had become engaged earlier this year,
1:32:16 > 1:32:22perhaps on a trip to Africa rather than in the way of William and
1:32:22 > 1:32:26Catherine, is incorrect. So they have only become engaged within the
1:32:26 > 1:32:32past couple of weeks, apparently. When you saw the repair reports of
1:32:32 > 1:32:34her apparently moving her dogs over here, did you think they are going
1:32:34 > 1:32:39to get married?I think everyone thought that, yes, including the
1:32:39 > 1:32:44rather curiously Downing Street started to become rather too
1:32:44 > 1:32:49talkative last week and issuing statements indicating that an
1:32:49 > 1:32:54engagement announcement was expected on Friday. I wouldn't be entirely
1:32:54 > 1:32:59surprised if the palace was really rather affronted at the cheek of
1:32:59 > 1:33:03Downing Street spokesman to be intimating that. That may well have
1:33:03 > 1:33:08been the reason why it didn't happen on Friday, I don't know... But I
1:33:08 > 1:33:13think Harry in particular would wish to do this in his own time and in
1:33:13 > 1:33:17his own way. So here we are, we have the announcement at ten o'clock this
1:33:17 > 1:33:25morning.The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge said, we are very excited
1:33:25 > 1:33:28for Harry and Meghan. It's been great to get to know Meghan and see
1:33:28 > 1:33:36how happy they are together. Meghan Markle's parents have said they are
1:33:36 > 1:33:42incredibly happy with the couple's engagement, adding "We wish them a
1:33:42 > 1:33:45lifetime of happiness". I'm reading a bit more about Meghan Markle,
1:33:45 > 1:33:51because we don't know that much about her. She likes yoga. She is a
1:33:51 > 1:33:56self-confessed foodie and has her own clothing line. She was very
1:33:56 > 1:33:59active on Instagram and Twitter before the relationship started to
1:33:59 > 1:34:05take off and then decided to step back from that. She is involved with
1:34:05 > 1:34:12World Vision Canada and as an ambassador for them. She likes
1:34:12 > 1:34:19carrying through her work as a women that advocates of the UN. That would
1:34:19 > 1:34:23seem to be a feasible area for her to continue in after her marriage, I
1:34:23 > 1:34:26would think.Yes, I think she is clearly comfortable in that role. I
1:34:26 > 1:34:30think it will be difficult for her to continue her acting career, that
1:34:30 > 1:34:36is pretty much impossible now. She will, I imagine, become a broiled.
1:34:36 > 1:34:41Chess, but I think there is no reason at all why she shouldn't
1:34:41 > 1:34:44continue campaigning for those issues about which we feel strongly.
1:34:44 > 1:34:51-- she will become a royal. Harry is very motivated in that direction,
1:34:51 > 1:34:55with the Invictus Games and campaigning on the behalf of
1:34:55 > 1:35:01veterans, continuing his mother's work. I think those sorts of areas
1:35:01 > 1:35:06would be areas that they will both wish to concentrate on, alongside
1:35:06 > 1:35:10William and Catherine with their foundations that they have. So yes,
1:35:10 > 1:35:14I imagine alongside starting a family, they will also be quite busy
1:35:14 > 1:35:23with their respective charitable campaigns and so on.Heard -- and
1:35:23 > 1:35:33dogs are called Guy and Bogart. Her mother called her Flower. She likes
1:35:33 > 1:35:39hot food. She can't live without her passport, apparently, travel places
1:35:39 > 1:35:46huge part in her life. She has the same hairdresser as Kim Kardashian
1:35:46 > 1:35:51West. Whilst trying to break into the acting word she worked as a
1:35:51 > 1:35:53freelance calligrapher for Dolce and Urbana and wrote some celebrity
1:35:53 > 1:35:59invitations. Whether she will do her own invitations I don't know.She
1:35:59 > 1:36:03will have someone to do that for her!She speaks Spanish, she had a
1:36:03 > 1:36:08job at the US Embassy in Buenos Aires and perfected her Argentinian
1:36:08 > 1:36:13Spanish after graduating. She once picked Harry over William in a
1:36:13 > 1:36:18quickfire quiz, way before she met Harry, she was asked if she
1:36:18 > 1:36:21preferred the Prince or his brother and in the end she picked Harry. So
1:36:21 > 1:36:29good...There we are, yes, yes. Right. This is from the Prime
1:36:29 > 1:36:33Minister. I would like to offer my warmest congratulations...
1:36:44 > 1:36:48That is a statement on Twitter from Theresa May, the Prime Minister.
1:36:48 > 1:36:51On the line is Stephen Bates, former Royal Correspondent at The Guardian,
1:36:51 > 1:36:54and author of Royalty Inc: Britain's Best Known Brand.
1:36:54 > 1:37:02Hello.Good morning.An American divorcee marrying into the royal
1:37:02 > 1:37:07family in 2018, what do you think?I think it is entirely good news and I
1:37:07 > 1:37:13am sure it will be welcomed not just a everywhere but Mrs May. The
1:37:13 > 1:37:17government hasn't had a great deal of good news recently, so I'm sure
1:37:17 > 1:37:24this will be a lifting of the spirits and removal of the pressures
1:37:24 > 1:37:30for a day or two, anyway.Because it distracts people's attention, I
1:37:30 > 1:37:34think the papers certainly will be full of Meghan Markle for the next
1:37:34 > 1:37:36few days, and intermittently over the next six months until the day
1:37:36 > 1:37:44itself. In terms of Prince Harry and what he
1:37:44 > 1:37:48has experienced in his life... We know from the way he has spoken only
1:37:48 > 1:37:53in the last 12 months or so how really traumatic it was after his
1:37:53 > 1:38:01mother died. And he talked about that and linked it to maturing and
1:38:01 > 1:38:05growing up and thinking that it was OK to talk about these things.
1:38:05 > 1:38:09Perhaps Meghan Markle had an influence on that.I imagine she
1:38:09 > 1:38:14might very well have done. They have obviously known each other for a
1:38:14 > 1:38:20couple of years now, that's good. Like some previous royal dynasty is,
1:38:20 > 1:38:28including his father in -- who didn't know each other before they
1:38:28 > 1:38:33got married, and now with William and Kate and Harry and Meghan, we
1:38:33 > 1:38:41are moving into an era where Royals know there partners before they
1:38:41 > 1:38:45marry them and are very used to them and can share interests with them.
1:38:45 > 1:38:54So I think from that point of view, it's very good news.The great
1:38:54 > 1:38:58British public usually like, usually like a royal wedding, don't they?
1:38:58 > 1:39:03Although some get irritated with what they say is over the top
1:39:03 > 1:39:11coverage, which is fair enough, I suppose?Yes. I think certainly the
1:39:11 > 1:39:17crowds will turn out on the day, depending on where and in what
1:39:17 > 1:39:22circumstances Meghan and Harry get married. Nick Witchell was talking
1:39:22 > 1:39:29about a church wedding. I guess that would be a fairly high priority.
1:39:29 > 1:39:34Certainly the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh would like that. And I
1:39:34 > 1:39:40guess Charles and Camilla, as well. I would think there will be a royal
1:39:40 > 1:39:46wedding. It will be in a church and in Britain, I guess.But we don't
1:39:46 > 1:39:51know, we just don't know. Karen says this is brilliant news.
1:39:51 > 1:39:54Peter has tweeted, why can't Meghan Markle continue acting? That doesn't
1:39:54 > 1:39:58seem fair. What would you say about that?
1:39:58 > 1:40:05I guess she could. I suppose she would have to choose her parts with
1:40:05 > 1:40:09care but I imagine there would be a long queue of agents and executives
1:40:09 > 1:40:16from television and film companies a king to get her a starring role. --
1:40:16 > 1:40:21aching to get her a starring role. If she is happy with that, I guess
1:40:21 > 1:40:27it's a possibility.Another asks why does it matter Meghan Markle is
1:40:27 > 1:40:32mixed race? What is the significance of that?It is not entirely unknown
1:40:32 > 1:40:38Royals have married people of mixed race before. I think people in this
1:40:38 > 1:40:42country, certainly, are very comfortable with that these days. 50
1:40:42 > 1:40:46years ago it might have been an issue, would have been an issue
1:40:46 > 1:40:51then. But today, I would have thought people would take it as not
1:40:51 > 1:41:00only absolutely commonplace but rather welcome that the Royal family
1:41:00 > 1:41:10has moved into that generation as well.OK. Thank you very much. The
1:41:10 > 1:41:15royal correspondent at the Guardian. A couple of people already tweeting,
1:41:15 > 1:41:18saying we should be leaving them alone, as Harry pleaded last year.
1:41:18 > 1:41:22Well, we can't really leave them alone today they have announced
1:41:22 > 1:41:27their engagement block clearly as the weeks go by there will be a lot
1:41:27 > 1:41:31of people who increasingly will feel that. But there really is undoubted
1:41:31 > 1:41:42significant public interest in the wedding of Prince Harry to Meghan
1:41:42 > 1:41:49Markle. We will, along with the media, be reflecting that interest,
1:41:49 > 1:41:53hopefully without going on about it too much.Yes.
1:41:53 > 1:41:54Let's speak to Christopher Lee.
1:41:54 > 1:41:57He's a historian and friend of the Duke of Edinburgh.
1:41:57 > 1:42:05Hello, how are you?Hello.What you make of this news?I want to know he
1:42:05 > 1:42:10will become the Duke of Sussex.Why do want to know that?Because when a
1:42:10 > 1:42:14prince gets married, just before he is actually married, they normally
1:42:14 > 1:42:21give him something like the Duke of something. I think Duke of Sussex is
1:42:21 > 1:42:28available, and therefore what is he going to do about his showgirl? Will
1:42:28 > 1:42:36she becomes the Duchess or will it be like Princess Royal, who says
1:42:36 > 1:42:40Mountbatten Windsor...She is not of royal blood, so she is not a
1:42:40 > 1:42:46princess and her own right.That's right.She will be former Princess
1:42:46 > 1:42:51Henry of Wales, in the same way as Catherine is Princess William of
1:42:51 > 1:42:57Wales. But the Queen is very minded to follow the traditional route, and
1:42:57 > 1:43:02as Christopher says, to give them a dukedom, a royal dukedom. There are
1:43:02 > 1:43:09any number which I think are vacant. Christopher is mentioning feeds Duke
1:43:09 > 1:43:11of Sussex. There's the Duke of Clarence on all kinds of other
1:43:11 > 1:43:15things. I would imagine, as Christopher says, that just before
1:43:15 > 1:43:19the wedding Harry will be created the Duke of something or other and
1:43:19 > 1:43:23she will become the Duchess of something or other.Sussex is good!
1:43:23 > 1:43:31Why not, yes.I have my money on Sussex.As an historian you are
1:43:31 > 1:43:35allowed to be interested in things like that. More broadly, how do you
1:43:35 > 1:43:39react to this news?I think it is tremendous, in as much as if you go
1:43:39 > 1:43:50back to 1947, and with the wedding and comeback not so far to the
1:43:50 > 1:43:58wedding of the Prince of Wales, it always strikes me that when things
1:43:58 > 1:44:01are bit miserable, the weather is lousy, we've got it wrong about
1:44:01 > 1:44:04politics, or seem to have got it wrong about politics, what indeed
1:44:04 > 1:44:11every time if something like the fairyland affair. -- what we need is
1:44:11 > 1:44:16a fairyland affair. He has probably, as a guest, probably the most
1:44:16 > 1:44:21popular prints or member of the Royal family, outside the Queen
1:44:21 > 1:44:24herself, so I think it will attract the sort of attention and
1:44:24 > 1:44:30speculation and good fun that the country probably needs quite at the
1:44:30 > 1:44:37moment.It's interesting that you talk about he's one of the most
1:44:37 > 1:44:42popular members of the Royal family. He has had some tricky times over
1:44:42 > 1:44:48the years with one more two incidents he has been involved in?
1:44:48 > 1:44:53He certainly has, yes. He was the impetuous younger sibling, wasn't
1:44:53 > 1:44:59he? So often is the way, getting in trouble but getting away with it.
1:44:59 > 1:45:04There was the strip billiards incident in Las Vegas, the misjudged
1:45:04 > 1:45:08dressing up in a Nazi uniform and going to a party when he was much
1:45:08 > 1:45:14younger... There have been a number of episodes. There was certainly
1:45:14 > 1:45:17excessive drinking, there was a little bit of dabbling with soft
1:45:17 > 1:45:25drugs also. So, in fact period, and we shouldn't forget of course after
1:45:25 > 1:45:29the tragedy of his mother's death, there was an unsettled period in his
1:45:29 > 1:45:32life, as he's pretty much admitted to. That he was quite
1:45:32 > 1:45:39psychologically damaged and traumatised by it all.The
1:45:39 > 1:45:41Archbishop of Canterbury has released a statement saying he is
1:45:41 > 1:45:45absolutely delighted to hear the news of Prince Harry and Meghan
1:45:45 > 1:45:48Markle getting married, wishing the many years of love happiness and
1:45:48 > 1:45:49fulfilment.
1:45:54 > 1:45:57Yes, but he doesn't answer the question we would like to ask him,
1:45:57 > 1:46:02is he going to permit a church we hadding? If he is that keen to
1:46:02 > 1:46:05indicate his pleasure and happiness so soon after the announcement, he
1:46:05 > 1:46:09can hardly stand in the way, but we will wait and see.If they want a
1:46:09 > 1:46:13church wedding?I imagine they would. It goes with the job, doesn't
1:46:13 > 1:46:17it, really?OK.Because there will be such a degree of public interest,
1:46:17 > 1:46:22not only in this country, but in the United States and elsewhere that
1:46:22 > 1:46:28there needs to be some sort of a major spectacle I would suggest and
1:46:28 > 1:46:32his father, his grandmother and the rest of the family will wish to
1:46:32 > 1:46:42attend a ceremony in a church. Yes. And yes, and they can marry in
1:46:42 > 1:46:47a church of England church despite the fact that she is a divorcee
1:46:47 > 1:46:51depending on what someone like Justin Welby says?It is up to the
1:46:51 > 1:46:56decision of the individual priest or bishop. I think in this case, it
1:46:56 > 1:47:01would refer up to the Archbishop of Canterbury. They would have the
1:47:01 > 1:47:06option of going to a Church of Scotland church as the Princess
1:47:06 > 1:47:10Royal, Princess Anne did, and she was married near Balmoral. The
1:47:10 > 1:47:16Church of Scotland doesn't have that not hang-up, but that rule about
1:47:16 > 1:47:21marrying divorcees in church. But the Church of England is moving away
1:47:21 > 1:47:27interest that to an extent. I have heard it suggested that archbishop
1:47:27 > 1:47:30Welby has already approved the remarriage of one divorcee in
1:47:30 > 1:47:35church. The critical thing again is that the person was not involved in
1:47:35 > 1:47:40the break-up of the other person's previous marriage.
1:47:40 > 1:47:44So Meghan Markle is a woman's advocate for the UN. Here she is
1:47:44 > 1:47:52speaking at the UN in 2015 talking about women's rights.When I was
1:47:52 > 1:48:01just 11 years old, I unknowingly and somehow accidentally became a female
1:48:01 > 1:48:05advocate. It was around the same time as the Beijing conference so a
1:48:05 > 1:48:15little over 20 years ago in in my hometown of lass Angeles, a pivotal
1:48:15 > 1:48:20moment reshaped my notion of what is possible. You see I had been in
1:48:20 > 1:48:25school watching a TV show, in elementary school and this
1:48:25 > 1:48:30commercial came on with the tag line for this dish washing liquid and the
1:48:30 > 1:48:35tag line said, "Women all over America are fighting greasy pots and
1:48:35 > 1:48:48pans." ." Two boys from my class said, "Yeah, that's where women
1:48:48 > 1:48:59belong, in the kitchen." I remember feeling shocked and angry and also
1:48:59 > 1:49:06just feeling so hurt. It just wasn't right and something needed to be
1:49:06 > 1:49:11done so, I went home and I told my dad what had happened. And he
1:49:11 > 1:49:18encouraged me to write letters. So I did. To the most powerful people I
1:49:18 > 1:49:23could think of. Now, my 11-year-old self worked out that if I really
1:49:23 > 1:49:31wanted someone to hear me, well then I should write a letter to the First
1:49:31 > 1:49:38Lady. So off I went scribbling away to our First Lady at the time,
1:49:38 > 1:49:41Hillary Clinton... APPLAUSE
1:49:41 > 1:49:47I also put pen to paper and I wrote a letter to my news source at the
1:49:47 > 1:49:54time who host add kids news programme and then to powerhouse
1:49:54 > 1:50:00attorney Gloria Allred, even at 11, I wanted to cover all my bases!
1:50:00 > 1:50:08Finally, I wrote to the soap manufacturer and a few weeks went by
1:50:08 > 1:50:16and to my surprise I received letters of encouragement from
1:50:16 > 1:50:23Hillary Clinton, from Linda Ellerby and from Gloria
1:50:23 > 1:50:28ALL:Red. It was amazing. Meghan Markle talking a couple of years
1:50:28 > 1:50:33ago, that was at the UN talking about women's rights. She is a
1:50:33 > 1:50:41woman's advocate for the UN and does some work for Global Vision and that
1:50:41 > 1:50:44charitable work will potentially be her focus after marriage?I think
1:50:44 > 1:50:49so. What comes across in that clip is how confident, how poised she is,
1:50:49 > 1:50:54now accustomed to the public stage she is. Now, you might expect that
1:50:54 > 1:50:58as an American, as an actress, she will bring things to the Royal
1:50:58 > 1:51:02Family that it is not entirely accustomed to, but I think that she
1:51:02 > 1:51:07will be welcomed as a result of that and I think that she and Harry will
1:51:07 > 1:51:10be quite a formidable couple this their various campaigning and
1:51:10 > 1:51:16charitable activities. The Prince of Wales, he's visiting
1:51:16 > 1:51:21this Dorset. He has just said he is thrilled and very happy indeed for
1:51:21 > 1:51:24Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. Everybody is really happy, of
1:51:24 > 1:51:29course, they are. The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh and The Prince of
1:51:29 > 1:51:33Wales and Prince William and the Duchess of Cambridge. Delighted at
1:51:33 > 1:51:38the news that Prince Harry is settling down. At the moment fifth
1:51:38 > 1:51:43in line to the throne, but when the new baby comes along, he'll soon be
1:51:43 > 1:51:52sixth. Which I'm sure he is a he fine about. Let's talk about a Royal
1:51:52 > 1:51:56Wedding in this country, and how people react to it and actually get,
1:51:56 > 1:52:03you know, really do get carried away in a good way with a Royal Wedding?
1:52:03 > 1:52:06It will be interesting to see whether there is a slightly lower
1:52:06 > 1:52:14level of interest given that he's not a future king. But he is
1:52:14 > 1:52:17marrying an American, so that will ramp up the interest particularly
1:52:17 > 1:52:21from across the Atlantic, the American networks and the American
1:52:21 > 1:52:26broadcasters will be very, very excited about it all. The venue will
1:52:26 > 1:52:30have a bearing on that if they want something on a rather smaller scale
1:52:30 > 1:52:37they go to somewhere like the Guard's Chapel or St George's scham.
1:52:37 > 1:52:42George's chapel at Windsor. If they want the full works, the Abbey or St
1:52:42 > 1:52:47Paul's. People will say that there are in some instances unhappy
1:52:47 > 1:52:51connotations to some of those venues, but it didn't stop William
1:52:51 > 1:52:55from marrying at Westminster Abbey, notwithstanding that is where the
1:52:55 > 1:53:00funeral service of their mother took place. You know, I think, that they
1:53:00 > 1:53:06are adults now. I think they will feel they will go wherever they feel
1:53:06 > 1:53:10most comioritiable and wherever they feel is most appropriate.Quite a
1:53:10 > 1:53:14lot of people get interested in what is going to design the wing dress?
1:53:14 > 1:53:23Which designer. Who is going to do her hair? The same hairdresser --
1:53:23 > 1:53:31her hairdresser is the same hairdresser that is kim Kardashian
1:53:31 > 1:53:38West's hairdresser. Thank you, Nick. Let's look at Meghan Markle's
1:53:38 > 1:53:43Instagram feed. She stopped posting in April. She has 1.9 million
1:53:43 > 1:53:47followers. She is following 201 people. Let's look at some of these
1:53:47 > 1:53:53posts. In a society that profits from your self daushghts liking
1:53:53 > 1:54:02yourself is a rebellious act. 60,000 likes after she posted that.
1:54:02 > 1:54:06I love this, Sunday musings. This was last December actually. So
1:54:06 > 1:54:14almost a year ago. Don't be the - don't be the reason someone feels
1:54:14 > 1:54:19insecure, be the reason someone feels seen, heard and supported by
1:54:19 > 1:54:24the whole universe. So yeah, and that got 52,000 likes. She hasn't
1:54:24 > 1:54:30updated it since April. For obvious reasons. Let's talk to
1:54:30 > 1:54:36Darren ma Grady. He was personal chef to Queen Elizabeth II, Diana
1:54:36 > 1:54:41and princes William and Harry for 15 years. Hi, Darren, how are you?I'm
1:54:41 > 1:54:46very well, thank you and you?I'm really well. How do you react to
1:54:46 > 1:54:52this news?Thrilled to pieces. I think it is perfect for the nation.
1:54:52 > 1:54:57It's perfect for the Royal Family and it's perfect for Harry. You can
1:54:57 > 1:55:03see how much these two are in love with each other.I think you were
1:55:03 > 1:55:07working for the Royal Family a number of years ago, perhaps when
1:55:07 > 1:55:17Harry was pretty young, is that right?I was. I actually helped in
1:55:17 > 1:55:21the kitchen at Windsor Castle while Princess Diana was eating a bowl of
1:55:21 > 1:55:27cereal. He is getting married. That's unbelievable. I spent 11
1:55:27 > 1:55:33years as chef to the Queen. The princess would bring him into the
1:55:33 > 1:55:39kitchen at Balmoral Castle. When princess Charles and Diana separated
1:55:39 > 1:55:43I moved to Kensington and I was cooking for the boys, I say the
1:55:43 > 1:55:50boys, they are taller than me now. I cooked for them there.Thank you
1:55:50 > 1:55:55very much, Darren. Very nice to talk to you. Former royal chef to the
1:55:55 > 1:55:57Queen and to princesses William and Harry.
1:55:57 > 1:56:02Let's go back to Christopher Lay. He is a friend of the Duke of
1:56:02 > 1:56:06Edinburgh. Remind me how old the Duke of Edinburgh is now?He is
1:56:06 > 1:56:11close to 96.Wow. So another wedding for him to sit-in the front row at?
1:56:11 > 1:56:16Well, yes. I mean he won't have to stand around very much either. I
1:56:16 > 1:56:24always think it is quite interesting how they dress for these things.
1:56:24 > 1:56:29Now, the Duke of Edinburgh, he can put on his uniform as colonel of the
1:56:29 > 1:56:32Grenadier Guards or Admiral of the Fleet. It is a dressing up and an
1:56:32 > 1:56:40occasion, isn't it? The idea that it's just the let's say just Prince
1:56:40 > 1:56:45Harry's thoughts on what sort of wedding it should be. It is a
1:56:45 > 1:56:48responsibility to the public, haven't they? Everybody likes a
1:56:48 > 1:56:52wedding. We all stop as we walk past a church when there is a wedding
1:56:52 > 1:56:56going on, but this is the sort of thing you won't get a hotel in
1:56:56 > 1:56:59London or Windsor, depending where it happens to be, the crowds will be
1:56:59 > 1:57:05there for two or three days beforehand. I suspect that when you
1:57:05 > 1:57:11see these two in a bigger light, you've got Prince Harry for example
1:57:11 > 1:57:16is the can do prince. He has done Afghanistan. He was there at a time
1:57:16 > 1:57:21when a lot of people wouldn't have wanted to be there. He has latched
1:57:21 > 1:57:26on to the idea of promoting the livelihoods and the well-being and
1:57:26 > 1:57:30the public image of people who got themselves pretty beaten up in that
1:57:30 > 1:57:36war. He is somebody that you, he is not the Bear Grylls of royalty, but
1:57:36 > 1:57:41he has got that image of somebody who would do things that you would
1:57:41 > 1:57:45not expect. A prince that comes out with standard things to do and I
1:57:45 > 1:57:54think that is part of the whole spectacularity of a royal wedding on
1:57:54 > 1:57:59this scale.And because of what he has done. Because of what he
1:57:59 > 1:58:02experienced as a young boy, most people will be so happy that he has
1:58:02 > 1:58:07found someone he wants to spend the rest of his life with?Not only
1:58:07 > 1:58:10spending his life with, but somebody, you know, just a few
1:58:10 > 1:58:15minutes ago, we heard her talking, articulate in the way that Americans
1:58:15 > 1:58:18in the English language can be articulate like almost nobody else.
1:58:18 > 1:58:23Briefly, Christopher.That is what you get from him when you talk to
1:58:23 > 1:58:27him.OK. Thank you, Christopher.
1:58:27 > 1:58:32Thank you for your company.
1:58:33 > 1:58:34It's FA Cup round two,
1:58:34 > 1:58:38when the minnows turn to monsters and the minors beat the majors.