10/01/2018

0:00:07 > 0:00:09Hello.

0:00:09 > 0:00:10It's Wednesday, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

0:00:10 > 0:00:14welcome to the programme.

0:00:14 > 0:00:16These men have all taken spice in Manchester -

0:00:16 > 0:00:19charities tell us a new, more potent strain of the synthetic

0:00:19 > 0:00:26form of cannabis is having a devastating impact on drug users.

0:00:27 > 0:00:33He was resuscitated. He went to A&E and three hours later he was back in

0:00:33 > 0:00:37town buying more spice. That will give you an indication of how

0:00:37 > 0:00:42serious the addiction is.That exclusive report in 15 minutes time.

0:00:42 > 0:00:48If you have used spice or are affected by people who use it, tell

0:00:48 > 0:00:55us what difference the two year ban has made? Does the law do enough to

0:00:55 > 0:00:59protect free speech at university? We will hear from both sides.People

0:00:59 > 0:01:03are saying will I feel vulnerable? You will feel uncomfortable,

0:01:03 > 0:01:08vulnerable. Everything will be scary, guess what, ideas that have

0:01:08 > 0:01:13changed the world historically over many years have fought racism.

0:01:13 > 0:01:20Plus:There is more one way than to be the best. Apply now.No more of

0:01:20 > 0:01:25your country needs you and be the best, the Army is changing the way

0:01:25 > 0:01:32it advertising for new recruits. It is moving to a more emotional style.

0:01:32 > 0:01:34Your reaction to this very welcome - particularly if you serve

0:01:34 > 0:01:38in the Armed Forces.

0:01:38 > 0:01:47Or if you are an Army family.

0:01:47 > 0:01:49Hello and welcome to the programme, we're live until 11am.

0:01:49 > 0:01:54Throughout the programme we'll bring you the latest breaking news

0:01:54 > 0:01:56and developing stories and as always keen to hear from you.

0:01:56 > 0:02:00A little later we'll discuss the letter written by legendary

0:02:00 > 0:02:03French actor, Catherine Deneuve, who says men have the right to "hit

0:02:03 > 0:02:07on women" without being forced out of their jobs.

0:02:07 > 0:02:10In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal she's one of 100 prominent

0:02:10 > 0:02:13French women to complain about a new "puritanism".

0:02:13 > 0:02:15Your thoughts welcome, use the #Victoria LIVE

0:02:15 > 0:02:18and If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

0:02:18 > 0:02:20Our top story today.

0:02:20 > 0:02:23At least 13 people have died in mudslides and floods

0:02:23 > 0:02:24in southern California.

0:02:24 > 0:02:26At least 163 people have been taken to hospital

0:02:26 > 0:02:27and hundreds more are trapped.

0:02:27 > 0:02:30Our North America Correspondent, James Cook reports from Los Angeles.

0:02:30 > 0:02:35The rains came suddenly just before dawn.

0:02:35 > 0:02:39Torrential and terrifying.

0:02:39 > 0:02:45They coursed over the slick, scorched earth, gathering speed

0:02:45 > 0:02:48until mud was roaring down to the sea like an express train.

0:02:48 > 0:02:51The deluge smashed into the very homes which had just

0:02:51 > 0:02:52survived California's biggest recorded wildfire.

0:02:52 > 0:02:55The result - utter devastation.

0:02:55 > 0:02:59We had a very difficult time assessing the area and responding

0:02:59 > 0:03:02to many of those areas to assist those people.

0:03:02 > 0:03:05The only words I can really think of to describe

0:03:05 > 0:03:07what it looked like, was it looked like a

0:03:07 > 0:03:10World War I battlefield.

0:03:10 > 0:03:12The communities hardest hit were Montecito and Carpentaria

0:03:12 > 0:03:16on the Pacific coast north of Los Angeles.

0:03:16 > 0:03:19These are some of the most exclusive neighbourhoods in the United States.

0:03:19 > 0:03:22Home to stars like Oprah Winfrey and the actor Rob Lowe.

0:03:22 > 0:03:28But no amount of money could stop this torrent.

0:03:28 > 0:03:30Well, the mud roared down here with terrifying speed,

0:03:30 > 0:03:32sweeping everything in its path.

0:03:32 > 0:03:37The firefighters won't let us go up there any further,

0:03:37 > 0:03:40they say the situation could change in the blink of an eye

0:03:40 > 0:03:45and as you can see, this is how dangerous it is.

0:03:45 > 0:03:48Rescue workers are still scouring scores of damaged and demolished

0:03:48 > 0:03:49homes, searching for survivors.

0:03:49 > 0:03:57Police say the number of dead here is certain to rise.

0:04:02 > 0:04:04Reeta is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

0:04:04 > 0:04:10of the rest of the day's news.

0:04:10 > 0:04:15The Army is launching a new recruitment campaign which

0:04:15 > 0:04:17emphasises the emotional and physical support given to soldiers.

0:04:17 > 0:04:23A series of radio and online adverts addresses concerns that potential

0:04:23 > 0:04:27recruits might have. There has been criticism from some former officers

0:04:27 > 0:04:35who have accused the Army of bowing to political correctness.

0:04:35 > 0:04:37The new ads pose a series of questions.

0:04:37 > 0:04:40Growing up, I really had my heart set on joining the army.

0:04:40 > 0:04:42Another reassures would-be recruits that religious

0:04:42 > 0:04:44faith will be respected.

0:04:44 > 0:04:47The Army embraces the fact that you can come from a different faith.

0:04:47 > 0:04:50Even on exercise, there's always a quiet moment to go into a cabin

0:04:50 > 0:04:55and just sort of find a little corner and do your prayers there.

0:04:55 > 0:04:57Recruiting for the Army is a constant battle.

0:04:57 > 0:04:59Every year, for seven years now, more soldiers have left

0:04:59 > 0:05:04the Army than signed up.

0:05:04 > 0:05:11There's a lot of internal debate about how best it should be done.

0:05:11 > 0:05:14I love the idea of the Army...

0:05:14 > 0:05:16The Army says its belonging campaign has already sparked

0:05:16 > 0:05:21a significant surge in interest, but others say this

0:05:21 > 0:05:23new series of ads panders to to political correctness

0:05:23 > 0:05:31and the so-called "snowflake generation."

0:05:49 > 0:05:51Last month, the new Defence Gavin Williamson, halted plans

0:05:51 > 0:05:53to ditch the Army's Be the Best slogan which has been

0:05:53 > 0:05:55used for decades.

0:05:55 > 0:05:56An internal report had claimed it was datist,

0:05:56 > 0:05:57elitist and non-inclusive.

0:05:57 > 0:06:00This new campaign does include the slogan, but it's not given

0:06:00 > 0:06:01the prominence it once had.

0:06:01 > 0:06:03100 well-known French women have signed an open letter

0:06:03 > 0:06:06defending the right of men to make sexual advances.

0:06:06 > 0:06:08The actress Catherine Deneuve is one of the signatories who say

0:06:08 > 0:06:10the recent wave of denunciations of sexual harassment

0:06:10 > 0:06:13following the Harvey Weinstein affair is creating a new feminism

0:06:13 > 0:06:14defined by hatred of men and sexuality.

0:06:14 > 0:06:17In the open letter published in Le Monde, the women say

0:06:17 > 0:06:19there is a new puritanism afoot in the world.

0:06:19 > 0:06:21Passengers on Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern services

0:06:21 > 0:06:23have suffered the worst disruption of any rail franchise according

0:06:23 > 0:06:25to a highly critical report.

0:06:25 > 0:06:30The Government's spending watchdog, the National Audit Office,

0:06:30 > 0:06:32says the country's largest rail operator has failed

0:06:32 > 0:06:40to provide value for money.

0:06:40 > 0:06:42It also criticises the Department for Transport.

0:06:42 > 0:06:45Our Business correspondent, Theo Leggett reports.

0:06:45 > 0:06:49Thameslink, Southern and great northern are the large of largest of

0:06:49 > 0:06:52Britain's rail services. It provides services along the South Coast and

0:06:52 > 0:06:55into London. Since 2016 the company has been embroiled in a bitter

0:06:55 > 0:06:59dispute with the RMT union, over its plans to use trains on which the

0:06:59 > 0:07:02driver, rather than the conductor, is in charge of opening and dlosing

0:07:02 > 0:07:07the doors. Over the past two years, there have been regular strikes on

0:07:07 > 0:07:11Southern Rail ways trains. This week, great northern services have

0:07:11 > 0:07:14also been affected. In fact, according to the National Audit

0:07:14 > 0:07:19Office, since it was created, the franchise as experienced worst

0:07:19 > 0:07:24disruption than any other part of the network. 146,000 trains have

0:07:24 > 0:07:29been cancelled, or delayed for more than half an hour since July 2015.

0:07:29 > 0:07:35That's 7.7% of services. Across the UK as a whole, the figure is 2.8%.

0:07:35 > 0:07:39The report claims that although most of the delays were down to

0:07:39 > 0:07:42industrial action, the Department for Transport should shoulder some

0:07:42 > 0:07:46of the blame. When it awarded the franchise, it didn't check that

0:07:46 > 0:07:52Govia had enough drivers and didn't pay enough attention to the possible

0:07:52 > 0:07:55impact of industrial action and wasn't aware of poor state of the

0:07:55 > 0:08:02network. All that means the Government has not been

0:08:04 > 0:08:09getting value more money. A new strain of spice has emerged in

0:08:09 > 0:08:13Manchester in the last few weeks. Charities who work with drug users

0:08:13 > 0:08:17in the city say the illegal drug is causing devastation and even death

0:08:17 > 0:08:21among the homeless community. Spice was previously known as oning of the

0:08:21 > 0:08:25so-called legal highs before being banned along with other substances

0:08:25 > 0:08:27in May 2016.

0:08:27 > 0:08:29The Chancellor, Philip Hammond, and the Brexit Secretary,

0:08:29 > 0:08:32David Davis, have told a German newspaper that any trade deal

0:08:32 > 0:08:35with the EU must include the financial services industry.

0:08:35 > 0:08:38The two Cabinet Ministers will make separate visits to meet business

0:08:38 > 0:08:40leaders in Germany today, where they will both stress

0:08:40 > 0:08:46the importance of not erecting new barriers to trade.

0:08:46 > 0:08:49A body has been found in a garden after a woman walked into a police

0:08:49 > 0:08:52station and told officers she had killed and buried a man

0:08:52 > 0:08:55"a number of years ago".

0:08:55 > 0:08:57Greater Manchester Police confirmed that human remains

0:08:57 > 0:08:59have been discovered at a house near Stockport.

0:08:59 > 0:09:06A 63-year-old woman has been arrested on suspicion of murder.

0:09:06 > 0:09:09A 16-year old boy will appear in court today charged

0:09:09 > 0:09:11with the murder of a shop assistant in north London.

0:09:11 > 0:09:14Vijay Patel was attacked in a row over the sale of cigarette papers

0:09:14 > 0:09:16outside his shop in Mill Hill on Saturday night.

0:09:16 > 0:09:24He later died in hospital.

0:09:24 > 0:09:30New measures to clamp down on plastic waste are to be extended by

0:09:30 > 0:09:35the Government. Retailers with fewer than 250 staff are exempted from the

0:09:35 > 0:09:41levy. The idea is part of a 25 year plan to improve the environment. All

0:09:41 > 0:09:44retailers in Scotland and Wales are already required to charge for

0:09:44 > 0:09:47plastic bags.

0:09:47 > 0:09:52The search for Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 will resume today,

0:09:52 > 0:09:54nearly a year after efforts to locate the plane

0:09:54 > 0:09:56were officially suspended.

0:09:56 > 0:09:58The search for the aircraft, which went missing with 239 people

0:09:58 > 0:10:01on board in March 2014, was the largest in aviation history.

0:10:01 > 0:10:03It will now be resumed by a an American company

0:10:03 > 0:10:11using unmanned submarines.

0:10:13 > 0:10:16A Japanese astronaut has apologised after claiming he'd

0:10:16 > 0:10:18grown 9cm since arriving at the International Space

0:10:18 > 0:10:20Station three weeks ago.

0:10:20 > 0:10:23Nori-shige Kanai said he had in fact grown 2cm -

0:10:23 > 0:10:25and blamed a measurement error.

0:10:25 > 0:10:27His original claim sparked global fascination among

0:10:27 > 0:10:35social media users.

0:10:35 > 0:10:37Astronauts can grow between 2cm to 5cm in space

0:10:37 > 0:10:38because the lack of gravity

0:10:38 > 0:10:42allows vertebrae in their spines to expand.

0:10:42 > 0:10:48That's a summary of the latest BBC News. More at 9.30am. Thank you,

0:10:48 > 0:10:54Reeta. Anthony on Facebook, we will bring you a film, which shows there

0:10:54 > 0:10:57is a dangerous strain of spice circulating on the streets of

0:10:57 > 0:11:01Manchester. This is despite the fact that spice was banned a couple of

0:11:01 > 0:11:05years ago. Anthony says, "When it was the so-called legal high, and

0:11:05 > 0:11:08available in shops, we didn't see the same problems. Maybe this is the

0:11:08 > 0:11:12reason to legalise some drugs, control what's in them, the strength

0:11:12 > 0:11:16and put a tax on them at the same time." Scottie on Facebook says,

0:11:16 > 0:11:22"The war on drugs created the market for spice." One viewer tweets this,

0:11:22 > 0:11:27"Just one time, that's all it takes to go wrong. People don't listen."

0:11:27 > 0:11:31Ebony says, "Stop the dealers approaching them and get them locked

0:11:31 > 0:11:37up. No dealers, equals no spice." Get in touch if you have used spice

0:11:37 > 0:11:41or affected by people who use it. Let me know your experience and what

0:11:41 > 0:11:45the difference has been since the ban on legal highs came into this

0:11:45 > 0:11:50country.

0:11:55 > 0:12:00There was almost a great result for Bristol City?Yes, two minutes.

0:12:00 > 0:12:04That's how close Bristol City came to holding high flying Manchester

0:12:04 > 0:12:08City. That's in the first leg of their League Cup semifinal, the

0:12:08 > 0:12:13runaway Premier League leaders needed a stoppage time winner from

0:12:13 > 0:12:18Sergio Aguero for their 2-1 win at home and Bristol City boss Lee

0:12:18 > 0:12:22Johnson believes his team can still topple City when they come to Ashton

0:12:22 > 0:12:28Gate in a fortnight. Pep Guardiola was full of praise for how Bristol

0:12:28 > 0:12:33City approached the game. The visitors led before the break. A

0:12:33 > 0:12:38strong City side was named and after the break, City were level and just

0:12:38 > 0:12:44when you thought that the under dogs would leave with a draw and away

0:12:44 > 0:12:49goal, Aguero popped up to score their winner in stoppage time.

0:12:49 > 0:12:56Wow, there is always Aguero there. Now this growing feud between Jose

0:12:56 > 0:12:59Mourinho and Conti carries on, doesn't it?It does, indeed. He

0:12:59 > 0:13:07seems to be feuding with anybody, really, Victoria. Victoria we are

0:13:07 > 0:13:11talking about Jose Mourinho, the Manchester United boss, ahead of the

0:13:11 > 0:13:18match. There is not much love lost between him and any other manager

0:13:18 > 0:13:24and in particular Conti. This is the to and froa starting in 2016 when

0:13:24 > 0:13:29Jose Mourinho was back at Stamford Bridge with Manchester United. They

0:13:29 > 0:13:36were hammered 4-0 by Chelsea. Chelsea and Conti celebrated wildly

0:13:36 > 0:13:39and Jose Mourinho was furious and hit out. This back and forth thing

0:13:39 > 0:13:45continued. Conti hit back in November, questioning Jose

0:13:45 > 0:13:49Mourinho's selection and Victor Moses who went on to play a big part

0:13:49 > 0:13:56in Chelsea's title winning season. Plenty more digs and last July it

0:13:56 > 0:14:02got personal, Jose Mourinho claiming that Conti had a hair transplant. On

0:14:02 > 0:14:08Saturday, he called Jose Mourinho a little man after some jibes about

0:14:08 > 0:14:12Conti's match-fixing suspension. This is what Chelsea boss had to say

0:14:12 > 0:14:21yesterday.This looks a person that's great, I don't think so. But

0:14:21 > 0:14:25I think we both said things and we will see what happens in the future.

0:14:25 > 0:14:36I think that he said a series of words and used serious words and I

0:14:36 > 0:14:42won't forget this. This is not a problem from the club. This is a

0:14:42 > 0:14:50problem between me and him. I stop. Stop.Let's cheer ourselves up from

0:14:50 > 0:14:57the feud, shall we? Nottingham Forest FA Cup hero on Sunday was

0:14:57 > 0:15:03Eric. He scored twice to knockout Arsenal. This is his present. His

0:15:03 > 0:15:06wife Catherine said they could get a dog if he scored a hat-trick. He

0:15:06 > 0:15:11only got two on Sunday! It was a special two. Everyone on social

0:15:11 > 0:15:20media agreed it was good enough and this is them.What are they,

0:15:20 > 0:15:27Labradors or spaniels?Guess what he called them?I missed thatGunner!

0:15:27 > 0:15:33For knocking out Arsenal.It could have been a pug. More from Sarah

0:15:33 > 0:15:36throughout the morning.

0:15:36 > 0:15:38People who work with drug users in Manchester have told this

0:15:38 > 0:15:41programme they're concerned there's a strong new strain of a synthetic

0:15:41 > 0:15:44form of cannabis known as Spice - and it's having a devastating impact

0:15:44 > 0:15:46on those who use it.

0:15:46 > 0:15:51Spice was banned along with other psychoactive substances known then

0:15:51 > 0:15:56as so-called "legal highs" in May 2016 - but critics say that ban

0:15:56 > 0:15:59hasn't made it any harder to get hold of but instead has put it

0:15:59 > 0:16:01into the hands of drug dealers.

0:16:01 > 0:16:06Spice was officially linked to 27 deaths in 2016 but many

0:16:06 > 0:16:10believe the true figure could be much higher.

0:16:10 > 0:16:12Experts have told us that some strains are so strong taking

0:16:12 > 0:16:15it is like playing Russian Roulette and putting a loaded

0:16:15 > 0:16:16gun to your head.

0:16:16 > 0:16:24Our reporter John Owen has spent some time in Manchester.

0:16:48 > 0:16:51I mean, I smoke half an ounce a day.

0:17:09 > 0:17:11It's early evening in Piccadilly Gardens on the edge

0:17:11 > 0:17:16of Manchester's Northern Quarter.

0:17:16 > 0:17:18Outside the chain stores and fast food restaurants men and women

0:17:18 > 0:17:20are collapsed in doorways, slumped forward or

0:17:20 > 0:17:23slurring incoherently.

0:17:23 > 0:17:25These are the human consequences of the potent psychoactive

0:17:25 > 0:17:29substance known as Spice.

0:17:29 > 0:17:31A highly addictive synthetic cannabinoid that has taken a cruel

0:17:31 > 0:17:35toll on the homeless community here.

0:17:35 > 0:17:37And now two front line charities have expressed fears that

0:17:37 > 0:17:42a new and much stronger strain may have entered circulation,

0:17:42 > 0:17:46with potentially life-threatening consequences.

0:17:46 > 0:17:50So-called legal highs like Spice were made illegal in May of 2016.

0:17:50 > 0:17:52But it's clear that among the rough sleeper and homeless communities

0:17:52 > 0:17:56here, they are as prevalent as ever.

0:17:56 > 0:18:01Almost everybody we speak to has a story to tell about Spice.

0:18:01 > 0:18:04They describe how it compounds the already intensely complex lives

0:18:04 > 0:18:07of people stranded on the streets.

0:18:07 > 0:18:09About how it's being pushed by gangs of unscrupulous dealers

0:18:09 > 0:18:12preying on desperation.

0:18:12 > 0:18:15And about how for people living through winter on the streets,

0:18:15 > 0:18:20its most valuable effect is numbness and its ability to pass the time.

0:18:20 > 0:18:23It's very, very unusual to find a young person who is Street

0:18:23 > 0:18:25homeless in the city centre of Manchester, who

0:18:25 > 0:18:27isn't taking Spice.

0:18:27 > 0:18:30I would say between 95 and 98% of those young street homeless

0:18:30 > 0:18:34people are smoking Spice on some level.

0:18:34 > 0:18:36Far from any perception that these are soft drugs like cannabis,

0:18:36 > 0:18:38these chemicals are, in fact, extremely

0:18:38 > 0:18:43dangerous, often leading to hospitalisation, even death.

0:18:43 > 0:18:45It's almost like putting a loaded gun to your head

0:18:45 > 0:18:48and playing Russian roulette.

0:18:48 > 0:18:50An organisation here that's distributing food

0:18:50 > 0:18:53to the rough sleeping community.

0:18:53 > 0:18:55As you walk past, you can really smell that very

0:18:55 > 0:18:59distinctive Spice smell.

0:18:59 > 0:19:02It's almost an acrid, really chemical smell,

0:19:02 > 0:19:10and it's all around that area where the food is being distributed.

0:19:11 > 0:19:15Manchester Metropolitan University is one of the only facilities

0:19:15 > 0:19:17in the country licensed to test new psychoactive

0:19:17 > 0:19:19substances like Spice.

0:19:19 > 0:19:21Dr Oliver Sutcliffe is one of the UK's foremost

0:19:21 > 0:19:24authorities on the drug.

0:19:24 > 0:19:26He explained that the samples they test vary widely

0:19:26 > 0:19:29in their potency, but that the most recent generation are by far

0:19:29 > 0:19:32the strongest they've seen.

0:19:32 > 0:19:34We've seen probably a couple of hundred different

0:19:34 > 0:19:37variations that have appeared.

0:19:37 > 0:19:41And the most recent ones, the third-generation

0:19:41 > 0:19:44synthetic cannabinoids, which have been classified

0:19:44 > 0:19:47in the UK, they are significantly more potent than the other previous

0:19:47 > 0:19:52generations that have been seen.

0:19:52 > 0:19:56He went on to say that since the ban there was no way to tell in advance

0:19:56 > 0:19:58how strong any given strain of Spice is.

0:19:58 > 0:20:03Historically, before the ban, the samples used to come in packets

0:20:03 > 0:20:07which were very brightly manufactured, collared,

0:20:07 > 0:20:09they were manufactured very professionally,

0:20:09 > 0:20:12they had information on the back of them.

0:20:12 > 0:20:17They seemed to demonstrate some idea of what was actually in the samples.

0:20:17 > 0:20:20Now what you are seeing now on the street are samples

0:20:20 > 0:20:23that look like this, and they are all in very

0:20:23 > 0:20:26nondescript snap bags, so there's no way to discriminate

0:20:26 > 0:20:29between product to product, and because of that you don't know

0:20:29 > 0:20:31potentially what synthetic cannabinoid you've got present

0:20:31 > 0:20:39in the sample, but also, you don't know how strong they are.

0:20:42 > 0:20:45Oliver's MMU colleague, Dr Rob Ralph, agrees that a ban hasn't

0:20:45 > 0:20:47helped to reduce the problem, as dealers exchange small quantities

0:20:47 > 0:20:50of Spice for the money that users have been able

0:20:50 > 0:20:51to raise whilst begging.

0:20:51 > 0:20:53Now it's actually easier to access Spice than it was before.

0:20:53 > 0:20:55Dealers will actually come up now we're here.

0:20:55 > 0:20:58Homeless people say they've been woken up in the morning by dealers,

0:20:58 > 0:21:00waking them up, giving them a bag or two.

0:21:00 > 0:21:03And then they come back a few hours later, when they've managed

0:21:03 > 0:21:06to earn some money begging, and get the money from them.

0:21:06 > 0:21:08So it's actually easier now than before for psychotic

0:21:08 > 0:21:12substances, to actually access it.

0:21:12 > 0:21:14Amongst the samples that Manchester Metropolitan University

0:21:14 > 0:21:15has received for testing from police, the strength

0:21:15 > 0:21:17of cannabinoids being smoked on the street seems

0:21:17 > 0:21:25to have stabilised recently.

0:21:25 > 0:21:27But speaking to people who are daily interactions with Spice users,

0:21:27 > 0:21:30there are fears that a stronger strain may now have

0:21:30 > 0:21:31re-entered circulation.

0:21:31 > 0:21:34At Life Share, a charity that works with vulnerable young people,

0:21:34 > 0:21:37Julie has been seeing the effects of this drug up close for some time.

0:21:37 > 0:21:39And she has no doubt that the strength of what's

0:21:39 > 0:21:41being smoked has increased in recent weeks.

0:21:41 > 0:21:43It's horrendous.

0:21:43 > 0:21:45We got people coming in absolutely white as a ghost.

0:21:45 > 0:21:47They can't string a sentence together.

0:21:47 > 0:21:50We've had a young lad who actually died outside in an alleyway.

0:21:50 > 0:21:52We put him into an ambulance, he was resuscitated.

0:21:52 > 0:21:54He went to A&E, three hours later, he was back

0:21:54 > 0:21:56in town buying more Spice.

0:21:56 > 0:21:58So it's dying doesn't put people off, that will give

0:21:58 > 0:22:00you an indication of how serious the addiction is.

0:22:00 > 0:22:03So that guy, in that case, he was medically dead?

0:22:03 > 0:22:04Yeah, medically dead.

0:22:04 > 0:22:06And he was lucky enough to be resuscitated and he went

0:22:06 > 0:22:07to buy more Spice?

0:22:07 > 0:22:08Yeah.

0:22:08 > 0:22:09Yeah.

0:22:09 > 0:22:11That's how scary it is.

0:22:11 > 0:22:14And that's one of, you know, I could name a number of incidents.

0:22:14 > 0:22:16We've had people woken up things happening around the back end

0:22:16 > 0:22:18of them that they weren't aware of.

0:22:18 > 0:22:20We have had people who have been gang raped, people

0:22:20 > 0:22:21forced into sex work.

0:22:21 > 0:22:23And this new strain, you could literally be

0:22:23 > 0:22:26talking to somebody, and you turn around and they're

0:22:26 > 0:22:27just literally gone.

0:22:27 > 0:22:28They're not there.

0:22:28 > 0:22:30Obviously we make sure they are breathing, but an hour

0:22:30 > 0:22:32later they are all back to normal.

0:22:32 > 0:22:35In your mind that all very clear evidence that there is a new,

0:22:35 > 0:22:37more potent strain around the streets at the moment?

0:22:37 > 0:22:39Yeah, absolutely, because we deal with 16 to 25-year-old

0:22:39 > 0:22:40young homeless people.

0:22:40 > 0:22:42We see the Spice addiction on a daily basis.

0:22:42 > 0:22:44It's normally quite a bonding experience, being around

0:22:44 > 0:22:45the homeless community.

0:22:45 > 0:22:49But the ones who are on Spice, we find now, will steal from each

0:22:49 > 0:22:50other, they will beat each other up.

0:22:50 > 0:22:53It's just completely changes the whole persona of people.

0:22:53 > 0:22:57But this one around at the minute is really, really worrying.

0:22:57 > 0:22:59Back on the streets we spoke to one man who didn't

0:22:59 > 0:23:02want his face to be shown.

0:23:02 > 0:23:05He told us that after taking a drag on what he thought

0:23:05 > 0:23:07was an ordinary roll-up, you completely lost

0:23:07 > 0:23:08control for several hours.

0:23:08 > 0:23:16The tobacco had been mixed with an ultra-strong strain of Spice.

0:23:16 > 0:23:19And that was after just a couple of drags?

0:23:19 > 0:23:20Just one.

0:23:20 > 0:23:21One.

0:23:21 > 0:23:22One pull.

0:23:22 > 0:23:23One pull?

0:23:23 > 0:23:24One pull, yeah.

0:23:24 > 0:23:25And you'll just completely out of it?

0:23:25 > 0:23:27I was out of it for five hours.

0:23:27 > 0:23:29I couldn't get myself back.

0:23:29 > 0:23:30Really?

0:23:30 > 0:23:32That must have been really scary, was it?

0:23:32 > 0:23:33It was, yeah, yeah.

0:23:33 > 0:23:34Yeah.

0:23:34 > 0:23:36Like almost everyone else we spoke to, he also told us

0:23:36 > 0:23:38about individuals who he believes had lost their lives

0:23:38 > 0:23:40as a direct result of the drug.

0:23:40 > 0:23:48The most recent official figures say that in 2016 there were just 27

0:23:48 > 0:23:50cases in which synthetic cannabinoids were mentioned on death

0:23:50 > 0:23:51certificates in England and Wales.

0:23:51 > 0:23:54But many suspect the real figure could be much higher.

0:23:54 > 0:23:55We spoke to to Risha.

0:23:55 > 0:23:57And as we spoke, she pointed out several Spice dealers

0:23:57 > 0:24:01and users in the square.

0:24:01 > 0:24:04Yes, I've known people who you suspect have died taking Spice.

0:24:04 > 0:24:06But because the medical professions don't know what's in it,

0:24:06 > 0:24:09they can't pinpoint that as a cause of death.

0:24:09 > 0:24:12They have to say that the thing that's actually killed them

0:24:12 > 0:24:15is their heart has stopped, or pneumonia or something like that.

0:24:15 > 0:24:17So that's on the cause of death.

0:24:17 > 0:24:20We knew a particular gentleman who is alcoholic,

0:24:20 > 0:24:22and he was passed a joint.

0:24:22 > 0:24:26He didn't realise Spice was in it.

0:24:26 > 0:24:29He took a couple of puffs and fell to the ground.

0:24:29 > 0:24:31And he ended up dying a week later.

0:24:31 > 0:24:35They had to turn the life-support machine off.

0:24:35 > 0:24:38One particular gentleman, who we have known for a very long

0:24:38 > 0:24:45time, is now in a nursing home.

0:24:45 > 0:24:48He can't talk, can't sort of get up, he can't live his own life,

0:24:48 > 0:24:49through taking Spice.

0:24:49 > 0:24:51Spice can sometimes stop time and take you away

0:24:51 > 0:24:53from the circumstances that you are within.

0:24:53 > 0:24:55Sometimes I can't blame people for wanting to get away

0:24:55 > 0:24:58from the desperate situation they are in.

0:24:58 > 0:25:06And it's having a devastating effect.

0:25:11 > 0:25:14I've seen people who can, I can have a chat with and speak

0:25:14 > 0:25:16to, and they're really coherent, just take such a nosedive

0:25:16 > 0:25:19and their health has deteriorated so much that I'm scared they might

0:25:19 > 0:25:20die on the streets.

0:25:20 > 0:25:28It's awful.

0:25:30 > 0:25:34It remains far from clear how many people have died from using Spice.

0:25:34 > 0:25:37But evidence of this drug leaving ruined lives in its wake

0:25:37 > 0:25:40is all too abundant here.

0:25:40 > 0:25:43And the fact is that these chemicals and their physiological effect

0:25:43 > 0:25:46on users are poorly understood.

0:25:46 > 0:25:53Manchester is far from unique in this respect.

0:25:53 > 0:25:55But conditions here can only be described as epidemic.

0:25:55 > 0:25:58With strains like the one now said to be at large in Manchester,

0:25:58 > 0:26:01it's hard to believe that more lives won't be destroyed before

0:26:01 > 0:26:09the situation is reversed.

0:26:09 > 0:26:12Really keen to hear from you - if you've used Spice or you're

0:26:12 > 0:26:14affected by people who do use it - has the legislation

0:26:14 > 0:26:16banning it worked?

0:26:16 > 0:26:20Do get in touch in the usual ways.

0:26:20 > 0:26:24We have had a text message from Carol who says she is a probation

0:26:24 > 0:26:29officer in London, she's not sure why it's trying comparisons to

0:26:29 > 0:26:32cannabis because it vastly different and has much more devastating

0:26:32 > 0:26:37effects. Cannabis is a relatively safe drug with minimum long-term

0:26:37 > 0:26:42effects on users compared to alcohol and Spice. Hence why cannabis has

0:26:42 > 0:26:48been realised in many American states. Spice has horrendous effects

0:26:48 > 0:26:52causing temporary paralysis, heart problems and psychotic episodes. I

0:26:52 > 0:26:57have had clients in their 20s, says Carol, who have had heart attacks

0:26:57 > 0:27:01after taking Spice. I have also had clients say that when it was legal

0:27:01 > 0:27:04prison officers would bring it into the jail for them and that is why

0:27:04 > 0:27:09the offenders got addicted to it. I have multiple offenders who have

0:27:09 > 0:27:13entered prison having never tried Spice only to come out with a

0:27:13 > 0:27:18serious addiction to it. It's a horrendous drug and something

0:27:18 > 0:27:21drastic needs to be done to educate people on the dangers and get it off

0:27:21 > 0:27:27the streets. And Julia on e-mail says Spice is more readily available

0:27:27 > 0:27:31and cheaper than cannabis and that is an outrage. Why can't the

0:27:31 > 0:27:34government follow the lead of Amsterdam and either legalise

0:27:34 > 0:27:38cannabis or create exemptions for the use of cannabis and bring in

0:27:38 > 0:27:40cafe shops like Amsterdam and regulate them as well as collecting

0:27:40 > 0:27:47tax on them. We will talk more about Spice and the effect of this new

0:27:47 > 0:27:51strain, more dangerous strain on users on the streets of Manchester

0:27:51 > 0:27:55in the second hour of the programme. Really interesting to hear from

0:27:55 > 0:27:58people like Carol who is a probation officer and comes across the effects

0:27:58 > 0:28:02of this drug. If you have relevant experience let me know, get in touch

0:28:02 > 0:28:08on the e-mail, and we will feed that into the conversation.

0:28:08 > 0:28:10The trial continues of former Crewe Alexandra and Man City

0:28:10 > 0:28:11football coach Barry Bennell.

0:28:11 > 0:28:14The 63-year-old is accused of 48 counts of child sexual abuse

0:28:14 > 0:28:17against 11 complainants, who were aged between eight and 14

0:28:17 > 0:28:22at the time of the alleged offences.

0:28:22 > 0:28:24Every day on this programme at around this time we'll be

0:28:24 > 0:28:27bringing you up to date with the evidence in court.

0:28:27 > 0:28:30We can speak now to our sports news reporter, David Ornstein,

0:28:30 > 0:28:35who's outside Liverpool Crown Court.

0:28:35 > 0:28:42David, tell us what happened yesterday?Victoria yesterday was

0:28:42 > 0:28:46essentially the first day of this trial, Barry Bennell is facing now

0:28:46 > 0:28:51known as Richard Jones. The prosecuting barrister set out the

0:28:51 > 0:28:56case against Barry Bennell and he appeared on video link winning a

0:28:56 > 0:29:04grey jumper and he is now known as Richard Jones. Mr Johnson QC

0:29:04 > 0:29:08described Barry Bennell as a predatory and determined paedophile

0:29:08 > 0:29:12with pretty much unfettered access to young boys dreaming of life in

0:29:12 > 0:29:18professional football who had the particular predilection to

0:29:18 > 0:29:23prepubescent boys and is alleged to have abused one boy on more than 100

0:29:23 > 0:29:28occasions. Victoria the jury were told that Barry Bennell worked as a

0:29:28 > 0:29:33youth coach in Cheshire, Manchester and Derbyshire in the late 70s and

0:29:33 > 0:29:38early 1990s. The jury would hear evidence over this eight-week trial

0:29:38 > 0:29:41that concerned allegations against Barry Bennell by boys in England and

0:29:41 > 0:29:47Wales and also the United States and that Mr Bennell had served prison

0:29:47 > 0:29:51sentences in both jurisdictions. They will hear that some of the

0:29:51 > 0:29:57abuse took place at the ground of Crewe Alexandra where he was a coach

0:29:57 > 0:30:03and on tours and that many incidents occurred at his home. While he was a

0:30:03 > 0:30:06skilled and relatively successful football coach though was a much

0:30:06 > 0:30:12darker side. The jury were told that while listening to the evidence they

0:30:12 > 0:30:20must decide whether this is a group of men, the alleged victims, are a

0:30:20 > 0:30:24group of men that Barry Bennell says are jumping on the bandwagon and

0:30:24 > 0:30:30making up false and malicious allegations for financial gain,

0:30:30 > 0:30:34essentially compensation, or if this is a series of serious allegations

0:30:34 > 0:30:40by Ed Davey is paedophile against a very vulnerable lads.What are we

0:30:40 > 0:30:48expecting today?Today we expect to hear from the first witness, Barry

0:30:48 > 0:30:54Bennell is 63 years old, we should remember, and faces 48 charges of

0:30:54 > 0:31:00sexual abuse involving 11 alleged victims between eight and 14. The

0:31:00 > 0:31:06date ranges between 1979 and 1991. Before the trial started Barry

0:31:06 > 0:31:12Bennell redid guilty to seven charges involving three boys aged

0:31:12 > 0:31:17between 11 and 14 between 1981 and 1991. He is not here in person

0:31:17 > 0:31:22because of ill-health we are told. He is fed through a chip. But if he

0:31:22 > 0:31:26is to give evidence he will need to attend court and as I said it is

0:31:26 > 0:31:31expected to last eight weeks, this trial.David Ornstein outside

0:31:31 > 0:31:33Liverpool Crown Court. Thank you.

0:31:33 > 0:31:34The trial continues.

0:31:34 > 0:31:42We'll bring you coverage of that trial every day on this programme.

0:31:42 > 0:31:46An investigation into the death of a baby girl in Nottingham has

0:31:46 > 0:31:50concluded that her death was preventible. Do university students

0:31:50 > 0:31:54need to be protected from free speech on their cam us? MPs are

0:31:54 > 0:32:00going to be discussing the issue today. We'll hear from both sides.

0:32:00 > 0:32:03Time for the latest news, here's Reeta.

0:32:03 > 0:32:06The BBC News headlines this morning:

0:32:06 > 0:32:08At least 13 people have died in flash floods and mudslides

0:32:08 > 0:32:12in southern California.

0:32:12 > 0:32:14Witnesses say torrents raged through the streets and boulders

0:32:14 > 0:32:16the size of cars rolled down the hillsides.

0:32:16 > 0:32:18Hundreds of people remain trapped in their homes.

0:32:18 > 0:32:19Emergency services said they expected the number

0:32:19 > 0:32:25of deaths to rise.

0:32:25 > 0:32:32The Army is launching a new recruitment campaign

0:32:32 > 0:32:33which emphasises the "emotional and physical support"

0:32:33 > 0:32:35given to soldiers. A series of radio, television

0:32:35 > 0:32:37and online adverts addresses concerns potential recruits might

0:32:37 > 0:32:39have about issues such as their sexuality or religion.

0:32:39 > 0:32:41There's been criticism from some former officers,

0:32:41 > 0:32:44who've accused the army of bowing to political correctness.

0:32:44 > 0:32:47But the Ministry of Defence says its "belonging campaign" has

0:32:47 > 0:32:48already sparked significant from people interested

0:32:48 > 0:32:54in joining up.

0:32:54 > 0:32:57100 well-known French women have signed an open letter

0:32:57 > 0:33:02defending the right of men to make sexual advances.

0:33:02 > 0:33:05The actress Catherine Deneuve is one of the signatories who say

0:33:05 > 0:33:07the recent wave of denunciations of sexual harassment

0:33:07 > 0:33:09following the Harvey Weinstein affair is creating a new feminism

0:33:09 > 0:33:11defined by hatred of men and sexuality.

0:33:11 > 0:33:14In the open letter published in Le Monde, the women say

0:33:14 > 0:33:21there is a new puritanism afoot in the world.

0:33:21 > 0:33:22Passengers on Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern services

0:33:22 > 0:33:25have suffered the worst disruption of any rail franchise according

0:33:25 > 0:33:33to a highly critical report.

0:33:34 > 0:33:38The National Audit Office says the country's largest rail operator has

0:33:38 > 0:33:42failed to provide value for money. It says industrial action has been a

0:33:42 > 0:33:45major factor for delays, but the Department for Transport has also

0:33:45 > 0:33:49made decision which have negatively impacted on passengers. The

0:33:49 > 0:33:51Government has admitted the disruption has been unacceptable and

0:33:51 > 0:33:55has called on the RMT union to end what it calls needless strike

0:33:55 > 0:34:00action.

0:34:01 > 0:34:03New measures to clamp down on plastic waste are to be

0:34:03 > 0:34:04announced by the government.

0:34:04 > 0:34:07They include the extension of the five-pence charge on plastic

0:34:07 > 0:34:08bags to all shops in England.

0:34:08 > 0:34:10Retailers with fewer than 250 staff are currently

0:34:10 > 0:34:11exempted from the levy.

0:34:11 > 0:34:14The idea is part of a 25-year plan to improve the environment.

0:34:14 > 0:34:16All retailers in Scotland and Wales are already required

0:34:16 > 0:34:24to charge for plastic bags.

0:34:27 > 0:34:29Here's some sport now with Sarah.

0:34:29 > 0:34:31Bristol City were two minutes away from holding Premier League leaders

0:34:31 > 0:34:35Manchester City in the first leg of their League Cup semifinal.

0:34:35 > 0:34:38The sides were level at 1-1 before Sergio Aguero popped up in stoppage

0:34:38 > 0:34:41time to give Pep Guardiola's side a slim advantage going

0:34:41 > 0:34:45into the second leg at Ashton Gate in a fortnight.

0:34:45 > 0:34:51The war of words continues between Antonio Conte and Jose Mourinho.

0:34:51 > 0:34:53The Chelsea boss called Mourinhno a "little man" and says

0:34:53 > 0:34:56"he won't forget this" after the Manchester United manager

0:34:56 > 0:34:59brought up Conte's "match-fixing suspension" last weekend.

0:34:59 > 0:35:03And England prop Joe Marler will miss the first two Six Nations

0:35:03 > 0:35:11games after being suspended for six weeks.

0:35:12 > 0:35:15And that's your sports headlines.

0:35:15 > 0:35:18Baby Harriet Hawkins was born, dead, at Nottingham City Hospital

0:35:18 > 0:35:23on 17th April 2016.

0:35:23 > 0:35:26She died as a result of a mismanaged labour and an independent

0:35:26 > 0:35:28investigation has just concluded that her death was "almost

0:35:28 > 0:35:31certainly preventable".

0:35:31 > 0:35:34Harriet's father Jack is a hospital consultant.

0:35:34 > 0:35:37Her mother Sarah is a senior physiotherapist.

0:35:37 > 0:35:39Both work for the hospital trust responsible for

0:35:39 > 0:35:44the death of their baby - their first child.

0:35:44 > 0:35:47Since that day, the couple have campaigned to force the Trust

0:35:47 > 0:35:49to acknowledge it made mistakes, mistakes which they believed

0:35:49 > 0:35:52had been covered up.

0:35:52 > 0:35:54You might remember them telling us such last year,

0:35:54 > 0:35:57but it has taken almost two years for an independent report to reach

0:35:57 > 0:36:02the same conclusion.

0:36:02 > 0:36:05Sarah had been in labour for six days.

0:36:05 > 0:36:08The couple had made ten phone calls and two visits

0:36:08 > 0:36:09to the hospital.

0:36:09 > 0:36:12By the time she was finally admitted in the late stages of labour,

0:36:12 > 0:36:13their daughter had died.

0:36:13 > 0:36:21It took another nine hours before Sarah was able to give birth.

0:36:27 > 0:36:29Sarah Hawkins is here and so as Jack.

0:36:29 > 0:36:33We can speak to them both now and their solicitor, Janet Baker.

0:36:33 > 0:36:37How did you respond?It was a mixture of feelings really. It was

0:36:37 > 0:36:42relief to actually be heard and for there to be official acknowledgement

0:36:42 > 0:36:47that, you know, Harriet's death was almost certainly preventible. It was

0:36:47 > 0:36:52just brilliant to be, for the external rerue team to be open and

0:36:52 > 0:36:55honest and transparent and that's all we had asked from anyone since

0:36:55 > 0:36:59Harriet died. But obviously with that, it brings great sadness

0:36:59 > 0:37:03because as you say it is a trust we work for. Minutes after Harriet's

0:37:03 > 0:37:07death all we had been saying, there were problems, they hadn't been open

0:37:07 > 0:37:10and they hadn't been honest or transparent and we wouldn't be sats

0:37:10 > 0:37:17here today if they had and it was, it is just... It's, it has been a

0:37:17 > 0:37:25very hard time.How did you respond, Jack?Really very much the same.

0:37:25 > 0:37:30It's very difficult when you know the truth and other people are

0:37:30 > 0:37:34telling you that you've got it wrong. It feels like we've been

0:37:34 > 0:37:39accused of lying. I think it is worth mentioning that nobody from

0:37:39 > 0:37:44the hospital has listened to our story which we've made copious notes

0:37:44 > 0:37:49on at the time. Nobody has sat down and said, "What actually happened?"

0:37:49 > 0:37:53What they have done is listened to reports from other members of staff

0:37:53 > 0:37:59involved in her case that don't match with reality and that's, so

0:37:59 > 0:38:04it's been very tough, but having this report, I mean it gives

0:38:04 > 0:38:10Nottingham no further opportunity to try and wriggle out of what actually

0:38:10 > 0:38:14happened. We are deeply concerned that in the 21 months or so since

0:38:14 > 0:38:17Harriet died the problems have persisted and they shouldn't and

0:38:17 > 0:38:22they didn't need to.OK, we'll talk about that in a moment.

0:38:22 > 0:38:28It is worth reminding our audience that initially the hospital did its

0:38:28 > 0:38:32own internal investigation without your involvement.Correct.And

0:38:32 > 0:38:35concluded that staff made no errors and that Harriet had died from an

0:38:35 > 0:38:40infection. You know a bit about infections Jack, don't you, so you

0:38:40 > 0:38:46were able to challenge that and the pathologist's report, saying that

0:38:46 > 0:38:49had there been an infection serious enough to kill Harriet you would

0:38:49 > 0:38:53have been extremely unwell as her mother and probably required

0:38:53 > 0:38:57intensive care treatment. Also for the benefit of our audience, an

0:38:57 > 0:39:01external review was carried out by a medical professional who the trust

0:39:01 > 0:39:05then offered a job to and the draft report she had done said Harriet's

0:39:05 > 0:39:10death was contributed to by five things. When you got the final

0:39:10 > 0:39:15report, it had been changed to say what?That Harriet's death might

0:39:15 > 0:39:20have been prevented, but certainly, might. So...Might have been

0:39:20 > 0:39:25avoided.Thank you. We felt, so we thought that directly contributed to

0:39:25 > 0:39:30by was only just strong enough anyway, but it was a definite

0:39:30 > 0:39:36improvement on the internal report, but might, I am afraid is political

0:39:36 > 0:39:40speak.I think the thing there is between the draft and the final

0:39:40 > 0:39:45report, it was only given for factual accuracy change and that's

0:39:45 > 0:39:48not a factual accuracy change.And we asked the hospital to change it

0:39:48 > 0:39:54back and they said it is not our policy to change back reports and we

0:39:54 > 0:39:57ask them to explain why it had changed and they never responded.I

0:39:57 > 0:40:06want to ask you about the impact of your baby's death on you since then?

0:40:06 > 0:40:10It is so hard to put into words. I don't think we have been able to

0:40:10 > 0:40:14grieve yet because we have had this fight. All we have asked for is to

0:40:14 > 0:40:18be listened to and for the trust to be open. We want Harriet, you know,

0:40:18 > 0:40:24to be worth something and for an improvement into the safety of their

0:40:24 > 0:40:27service, that was all we were asking and we didn't get that and we

0:40:27 > 0:40:31haven't got answers. We've got apologies, but apologies don't bring

0:40:31 > 0:40:35back our dead daughter.We're not sure what they're apologising for

0:40:35 > 0:40:40either. It feels like a platitude rather than a direct apology about

0:40:40 > 0:40:42the various problems that we have faced with them.That's the

0:40:42 > 0:40:46statement that I have from the Chief Executive of Nottingham university

0:40:46 > 0:40:56Hospitals trust trust. I offer my deepest sympathy to Sarah and

0:40:56 > 0:40:58deepest sympathy to Sarah and Jack for the stress of their death

0:40:58 > 0:41:02daughter Harriet caused them. It is likely that Harriet would have

0:41:02 > 0:41:05survived had it not been for several shortcomings in care. Why do you say

0:41:05 > 0:41:10it is a platitude from your point of view?We are disturbed that the

0:41:10 > 0:41:13report said almost certainly and that the Chief Executive has chosen

0:41:13 > 0:41:19to use the word, "Likely" again it feels like an attempt to turn down

0:41:19 > 0:41:24the volume of what is a very clear report. To be fair to the Chief

0:41:24 > 0:41:27Executive, that is a step up from the previous apologies. So we don't

0:41:27 > 0:41:31want to be dismissive of that. But How many apologies have you had by

0:41:31 > 0:41:40now?They might as well signed off their e-mails with, "Sorry for

0:41:40 > 0:41:45adding to your distress."They say they have made steps to address the

0:41:45 > 0:41:48shortcomings that arose from the death of Harriet and strengthened

0:41:48 > 0:41:54the maternity leadership structure and improved the voment of parents

0:41:54 > 0:41:59and strengthened governance processes. Should that be reassuring

0:41:59 > 0:42:04to other parents in the area, other pregnant women?We don't know the

0:42:04 > 0:42:10detail and they should have served the detail. Strengthening maternity

0:42:10 > 0:42:14leadership is positive. That's not the only criticism. There are lots

0:42:14 > 0:42:18of criticism about the way the two maternity departments operate and

0:42:18 > 0:42:22communicate. We know because it has been in the news they were

0:42:22 > 0:42:28criticised by the coroner in 2014 for conducting a cofully inadequate

0:42:28 > 0:42:32internal investigation. We're shocked in 2016 they are still con

0:42:32 > 0:42:35dicting woefully inadequate internal investigations because it has taken

0:42:35 > 0:42:41so long to get the hospital to believe us, we have, we're concerned

0:42:41 > 0:42:44what has been happening in the last two years and there is a recent

0:42:44 > 0:42:48coroner's inquest that has concluded natural causes contributed to by

0:42:48 > 0:42:53neglect and that is a very significant...For a baby?Yes.At

0:42:53 > 0:42:58that same hospital?Yes. I think one of my concerns there is

0:42:58 > 0:43:03that they haven't actually addressed any clinical practise and we asked

0:43:03 > 0:43:08why some of the clinicians who have been highlighted in the report as

0:43:08 > 0:43:11failing to deliver appropriate care haven't been referred to their

0:43:11 > 0:43:16governing bodies. The trust responded with they didn't feel like

0:43:16 > 0:43:20they met the threshold for referral and I'm not sure, our daughter

0:43:20 > 0:43:24dying, I'm not sure what their threshold is for the referral.A

0:43:24 > 0:43:29number of midwives have been retrained or sent on courses or

0:43:29 > 0:43:35whatever. 18 months you have been fighting for this. You both work

0:43:35 > 0:43:40there, worked there. How difficult has that been?We haven't, I went

0:43:40 > 0:43:45back to work for three months, but my job is not just at the hospital,

0:43:45 > 0:43:51that was very tough. But they have, I got my P45 between Christmas and

0:43:51 > 0:43:57New Year, so I am now unemployed. I'm from next month I'm not getting

0:43:57 > 0:44:01paid because I'm unable to return to work. And Harriet is still in the

0:44:01 > 0:44:05hospital because we have been, we still haven't been able to have her

0:44:05 > 0:44:12funeral.What?Yes.How?It is only because we have got official

0:44:12 > 0:44:15acknowledgement in this report that her death was almost certainly

0:44:15 > 0:44:18preventible that we can now have it, but before with the previous

0:44:18 > 0:44:22reports, they have always tried to blame a weakness in us, a weakness

0:44:22 > 0:44:25in Harriet like the infection so we haven't been able to have her

0:44:25 > 0:44:30funeral.Right. Was that, was that your choice that you wanted to wait

0:44:30 > 0:44:34for a report that vindicated you so you were going to leave the body of

0:44:34 > 0:44:38your baby there?We were so shocked by their correlation between what

0:44:38 > 0:44:44actually happened and the pathology report that we didn't want to do

0:44:44 > 0:44:47something permanent that would provide useful information and we

0:44:47 > 0:44:54were right. So, the final report has been helped by us not having

0:44:54 > 0:44:58Harriet's cremation.I understand. Now that we have this, we wanted to

0:44:58 > 0:45:01wait for this to be published. It has been slightly delayed in being

0:45:01 > 0:45:08published, but not by the team who wrote it.Having your daughter lying

0:45:08 > 0:45:16in a mortuary for 20 months is not a pleasant feeling.

0:45:16 > 0:45:21Janet Baker is the solicitor. What next?We're going to refer the

0:45:21 > 0:45:24matter to the Crown Prosecution Service because we feel that there

0:45:24 > 0:45:31have been breaches of the health care Act 2008 in relation to the

0:45:31 > 0:45:38duty of candor. As can be seen, there was no

0:45:38 > 0:45:41You are alleging criminal offences may have been committed when it came

0:45:41 > 0:45:45to the hospital being open and transparent about what actually

0:45:45 > 0:45:52happened?Yes, initially they did not undertake an investigation it

0:45:52 > 0:45:55was only after pressure from jack and say that that they did anything

0:45:55 > 0:46:01although their own protocol required them to investigate this matter as a

0:46:01 > 0:46:08serious untoward incident. When they did investigate the incident Jack

0:46:08 > 0:46:13and Sarah were not involved and it was concluded there was no fault by

0:46:13 > 0:46:19anyone at the hospital and the death of Harriet was caused by infection.

0:46:19 > 0:46:26The latest report has found that that was certainly not the case and

0:46:26 > 0:46:28that the pathologist was given information which led him to

0:46:28 > 0:46:33conclude it was probably infection and not given the full clinical

0:46:33 > 0:46:37picture which probably would have led him to a different conclusion.

0:46:37 > 0:46:44So we feel that is sufficient ground for us to refer the matter to the

0:46:44 > 0:46:48CPS to investigate under the health and social care act. Under

0:46:48 > 0:46:55regulations which came into force in 2014. We are also going to refer to

0:46:55 > 0:47:01the Health and Safety Executive because the most recent report

0:47:01 > 0:47:06highlights patient safety issues in systemic errors which we are not

0:47:06 > 0:47:10convinced have been put right and certainly were in existence at the

0:47:10 > 0:47:14time of Harriet's death and at least five months later when the other

0:47:14 > 0:47:21baby died in similar circumstances. Thank you for talking to us, Janet

0:47:21 > 0:47:25Bakker solicitor, and Sarah and Jack Hawkins, thank you for coming on the

0:47:25 > 0:47:27programme.

0:47:27 > 0:47:29Nottingham University Hospitals Trust told us they've already made

0:47:29 > 0:47:31substantial changes to address the shortcomings in their systems

0:47:31 > 0:47:34of clinical care and governance that arose from this case and have

0:47:34 > 0:47:36completed a broader review of maternity services.

0:47:36 > 0:47:38They say they've strengthened the maternity leadership structure,

0:47:38 > 0:47:39improved involvement of parents in the investigation

0:47:39 > 0:47:41process, and strengthened governance processes.

0:47:41 > 0:47:43They also say they've completed a full review

0:47:43 > 0:47:45of patient safety and outcomes in its maternity service.

0:47:45 > 0:47:46While areas of improvement have been identified,

0:47:46 > 0:47:49they say outcomes in their maternity services are no different to those

0:47:49 > 0:47:51in other similar units in England and Wales.

0:47:51 > 0:47:54Let's read some messages about Spice coming from you after seeing are

0:47:54 > 0:47:56some little earlier, Jacob says I am a recreational drug user and tried

0:47:56 > 0:48:00Spice when I was 16 because it was easier to get than cannabis and it

0:48:00 > 0:48:04was one of the most potent drugs I have ever tried and one of the worst

0:48:04 > 0:48:07experiences I have had mentally and physically. Vastly different to

0:48:07 > 0:48:13cannabis. I possibly could see the appeal to homeless people as you

0:48:13 > 0:48:17become so detached from reality. I had hoped the ban would make it less

0:48:17 > 0:48:21readily available but it's done the opposite as I know more and more

0:48:21 > 0:48:26dealers are selling it. Cameron said I have been inside and seen the

0:48:26 > 0:48:29effect on people in jail and it's the worst thing I have ever seen.

0:48:29 > 0:48:33People smoke it because they think it is safe like cannabis when it is

0:48:33 > 0:48:37the opposite. Since I have been out of jail I have seen people smoking

0:48:37 > 0:48:43Spice in the town centre, sleeping on the floor and it is awful. Keep

0:48:43 > 0:48:48those coming in, we will talk more about Spice in the remaining part of

0:48:48 > 0:48:51the programme.

0:48:51 > 0:48:53Coming up, he was diagnosed with depression as a teenager

0:48:53 > 0:48:55and despite taking anti-depressants realised he was still depressed.

0:48:55 > 0:48:57We'll speak to Johann Hari about his new book -

0:48:57 > 0:48:59which questions what we know about mental health.

0:48:59 > 0:49:02To what extent is free speech being suppressed in universities?

0:49:02 > 0:49:05MPs are hearing evidence later today about whether the law does enough

0:49:05 > 0:49:07to protect freedom of speech on university campuses.

0:49:07 > 0:49:09In recent years there have been a number of high profile cases

0:49:09 > 0:49:12in which speakers with controversial views have been prevented

0:49:12 > 0:49:14from appearing at campuses, a practice known as 'no

0:49:14 > 0:49:15platforming'.

0:49:15 > 0:49:17Supporters say it prevents hate speech and stops vulnerable

0:49:17 > 0:49:18people being harmed.

0:49:18 > 0:49:24Opponents say it stops debate.

0:49:24 > 0:49:26Last year the then Universities Minister Jo Johnson said

0:49:26 > 0:49:28Universities could be fined if they fail to protect free speech.

0:49:28 > 0:49:34It's an issue we first looked at two years ago.

0:49:34 > 0:49:36The policy is a policy that says in our building -

0:49:36 > 0:49:39and I'm talking the four walls that we have in the Students Union,

0:49:39 > 0:49:42that is for students - we want to make it

0:49:42 > 0:49:43accessible for everyone.

0:49:43 > 0:49:49We're also making sure that all voices, whether they are

0:49:49 > 0:49:51LGBT, disabled, black, women, trans, have a voice,

0:49:51 > 0:49:55because we know in society that they are marginalised

0:49:55 > 0:49:56and don't have a voice.

0:49:56 > 0:49:58That's the key thing.

0:49:58 > 0:50:02We're not saying - we don't live in a false bubble.

0:50:02 > 0:50:04It's a place where you'd expect to hear dangerous ideas,

0:50:04 > 0:50:07not be frightened of them, to actually go in...

0:50:07 > 0:50:09I mean, people were saying, "I might feel vulnerable."

0:50:09 > 0:50:12I think that you will feel uncomfortable, vulnerable,

0:50:12 > 0:50:14everything will be scary, because guess what?

0:50:14 > 0:50:17Ideas that have changed the world historically over many years -

0:50:17 > 0:50:20have fought racism, have got us equality -

0:50:20 > 0:50:23they were offensive, dangerous, scary to those

0:50:23 > 0:50:28people who heard them.

0:50:28 > 0:50:30Let's speak to Patrick Kilduff, president of the University

0:50:30 > 0:50:32of Edinburgh's student association, who is giving evidence

0:50:32 > 0:50:36at the inquiry today.

0:50:36 > 0:50:38The University banned Robin Thicke's 'Blurred Lines' from being played

0:50:38 > 0:50:40at student union events because the lyrics "undermine

0:50:40 > 0:50:48and degrade women".

0:50:49 > 0:50:51Owl Fisher is a transgender filmmaker and campaigned

0:50:51 > 0:50:53to stop Germain Greer from speaking at International Women's

0:50:53 > 0:50:54Day in Brighton.

0:50:54 > 0:50:57And Linda Bellos was 'no platformed' by a Cambridge student society

0:50:57 > 0:51:00because of her views about trans women - that they aren't the same

0:51:00 > 0:51:03as women who were born female.

0:51:03 > 0:51:08Thank you all of you for talking to us, I would like to hear you talking

0:51:08 > 0:51:12to each other about the issue of freedom of speech, not the subject

0:51:12 > 0:51:18of views. Let me ask you to start off with, Linda is free speech being

0:51:18 > 0:51:21suppressed at universities?It looks like it, I don't want to hype it

0:51:21 > 0:51:28but... The difficulty is if what was said to me is widespread then we

0:51:28 > 0:51:35have a problem. I don't think students should be protected, I put

0:51:35 > 0:51:38that in inverted commas, from ideas they might disagree with. I think

0:51:38 > 0:51:45they should develop robust arguments in response, that is what we go to

0:51:45 > 0:51:55university for, I did, as a mature student.No

0:51:55 > 0:52:02student.No Owl?It is beyond differing opinions and disagreement,

0:52:02 > 0:52:04it is opinions which are hateful and stigmatising towards a group of

0:52:04 > 0:52:07people which is why I think universities say they are there to

0:52:07 > 0:52:10protect students and they did want them to be exposed to views which

0:52:10 > 0:52:17could harm them and people in that situation. I think the discussion

0:52:17 > 0:52:21needs to be about what sort of opinions are being expressed, we can

0:52:21 > 0:52:26differ on certain topics but when we are speaking about people's lives it

0:52:26 > 0:52:30has real consequences and ramifications towards people and

0:52:30 > 0:52:33especially minorities and we need to be careful about what we put out

0:52:33 > 0:52:40there and what is allowed to be said.Go-ahead Linda. I can see

0:52:40 > 0:52:47wanted to respond? Could you hear what Owl said?Yes I did, I did not

0:52:47 > 0:52:52realise you were addressing me, sorry. I heard it and I think about

0:52:52 > 0:52:57the hurt I have experienced in these 67 years of my life in Britain. I

0:52:57 > 0:53:03was not protected, what I did do was I think develop responses in order

0:53:03 > 0:53:09to cope. I was not intending to speak to students in ways that would

0:53:09 > 0:53:14be hurtful or disrespectful of where they wear or where they thought they

0:53:14 > 0:53:21were, I wanted and I still want to explore with other human beings

0:53:21 > 0:53:26ideas, thoughts, I happen to think that gender is very much a man-made

0:53:26 > 0:53:30notion, just like a race is. There is only one race, the human race,

0:53:30 > 0:53:35yet there is racism because others are treated less favourably because

0:53:35 > 0:53:41of the colour of their skin. There is the same stuff with gender.I

0:53:41 > 0:53:46would say it does look like it's all about perception getting ahead of

0:53:46 > 0:53:49reality. Almost everyone who is seeing free speech is under attack

0:53:49 > 0:53:54at universities spends no time in higher education institutions. The

0:53:54 > 0:54:01comments were ignorant because we know free speech is alive and well,

0:54:01 > 0:54:04we host almost five and a half thousand events, the largest arts

0:54:04 > 0:54:11festival in the world, and only a few events are referred to the

0:54:11 > 0:54:13compliance group by virtue of government legislation and nothing

0:54:13 > 0:54:18to do with the students Association. Is it right there are some speakers

0:54:18 > 0:54:23who will be invited would-be no platform to because you want to

0:54:23 > 0:54:29protect a group of students?I think it's right we take security

0:54:29 > 0:54:35seriously.What do you mean?Their risk elements to inviting certain

0:54:35 > 0:54:40speakers so we have to account for that.What do you think would

0:54:40 > 0:54:43happen, go on Linda?I wonder if they being black might hurt some of

0:54:43 > 0:54:50them because most of them are white? Is a risk? Spice I think that is

0:54:50 > 0:54:53quite an inflammatory statement. The security risks I am talking about

0:54:53 > 0:54:57are the general health and safety of people attending an event which is

0:54:57 > 0:55:02why no speakers have been....

0:55:03 > 0:55:05why no speakers have been....I am telling you what I believe you refer

0:55:05 > 0:55:13to as now platforming is as you know, you were disinvited. Why that

0:55:13 > 0:55:20definition I have been no platform by thousands of TV programmes this

0:55:20 > 0:55:24morning but I don't get an platform to stand in the media and say I was

0:55:24 > 0:55:29no platform. You are currently on one of the larger TV programmes in

0:55:29 > 0:55:35the country talking about...As are you.Yes but I'm not demonising a

0:55:35 > 0:55:42false notion of now platforming.Am I? In what way?I think the reasons

0:55:42 > 0:55:46people might be disinvited is their views are harming a vulnerable group

0:55:46 > 0:55:50in society. It is not because people are not allowed to speak because of

0:55:50 > 0:55:53who they are it is because of the views which have severe consequences

0:55:53 > 0:55:57towards people and I am sorry that that makes you side but it has real

0:55:57 > 0:56:02consequences upon the lives of people.My views include my

0:56:02 > 0:56:07experience of racism, that is part of my view my experience and

0:56:07 > 0:56:11analysis of power and during construction, of systems that are

0:56:11 > 0:56:16created usually by men, white men, to highlight and create a hierarchy

0:56:16 > 0:56:21in which some of us are given some status and others are not. Those are

0:56:21 > 0:56:27my views, is that dangerous to you? It is dangerous when it starts

0:56:27 > 0:56:31advocating against my rights and these views are advocating against

0:56:31 > 0:56:36my rights, the campaign you have aligned ledger southward does.That

0:56:36 > 0:56:42is untrue. I support the 2004 gender recognition act. I disagree with

0:56:42 > 0:56:47some of the proposed changes to that act which will have a

0:56:47 > 0:56:54disadvantageous impact upon those of us who remain female women.Owl can

0:56:54 > 0:56:59you explain what harm it does you to hear the kind of use Linda has about

0:56:59 > 0:57:06trans women, what specific harm?The main consequence of people denying

0:57:06 > 0:57:10trans people their humanity and what they are contributes to a very De

0:57:10 > 0:57:13Vanna today and the scrum and today discourse and we can see this when

0:57:13 > 0:57:18we look at suicide rates for trans people and how vulnerable they are

0:57:18 > 0:57:23in society because these views contribute to it and the reasons

0:57:23 > 0:57:27trans people are often discriminated against or cannot get access to

0:57:27 > 0:57:30services is because of discrimination and stigma.Why do

0:57:30 > 0:57:34you believe the best way to overcome those views which you find offensive

0:57:34 > 0:57:41is to silence them and not hear them?I would not say silence them,

0:57:41 > 0:57:45I think Linda has every platform to see her views, I just think in this

0:57:45 > 0:57:49case it's not about her being silenced it is about a specific

0:57:49 > 0:57:53university not wanting to invite her to speak at a specific event and it

0:57:53 > 0:57:57is the right because they are taking a stand against use she has

0:57:57 > 0:58:02portrayed.I am objecting to some proposals the government for making

0:58:02 > 0:58:07which will be disadvantageous to those of us who are women, that is a

0:58:07 > 0:58:14matter, it is not a matter of

0:58:14 > 0:58:20matter, it is not a matter of the view but I'm allowed to have them, I

0:58:20 > 0:58:24think it is right in a free society, we don't all have to agree with each

0:58:24 > 0:58:30other but we do and can and should be able to disagree with each other.

0:58:30 > 0:58:35Again I think we have a right to disagree and I think view's should

0:58:35 > 0:58:39be challenged but it's about doing it in a secure environment and now

0:58:39 > 0:58:42platforming and those things you speak of, the people on the no

0:58:42 > 0:58:50platform realists are terrorist organisations, people arrested for

0:58:50 > 0:58:53inciting violence and racial hatred and those other things we take into

0:58:53 > 0:58:57account when we invite speakers, like any organisation.Am I1 of

0:58:57 > 0:59:10them? I am asking you, I am one of these people?You are not on the now

0:59:10 > 0:59:16platforming list.But in this case I was disinvited?Yes, and that is one

0:59:16 > 0:59:20institution 's decision not to invite you to something.Six

0:59:20 > 0:59:27organisations are banned from campuses including national action,

0:59:27 > 0:59:32the BNP. Critics of bands like that point to the fact, you will all

0:59:32 > 0:59:38remember neck Grabban the leader of the BNP, the then leader of the BNP

0:59:38 > 0:59:41on question Time whose support seems to fall away after he was able to

0:59:41 > 0:59:47hear his views.That is someone who was put on a stage in the BBC studio

0:59:47 > 0:59:54in a secure setting to air his views. Most universities don't have

0:59:54 > 0:59:58the resources to put on that I am sure Broadcasting House had to put

0:59:58 > 1:00:01on to accommodate for neck Griffin that night.Thank you all very much

1:00:01 > 1:00:08for coming on the programme. Many thanks for your time.

1:00:08 > 1:00:10The latest news and sport in a moment.

1:00:10 > 1:00:13Let's get the latest weather update - with Carol.

1:00:15 > 1:00:20Better late than never, this morning we have had a variety of weather,

1:00:20 > 1:00:23mist and fog, beautiful pictures sent in from Dorset by one of our

1:00:23 > 1:00:28weather Watchers, this one of line Regis shows a lovely sunrise and

1:00:28 > 1:00:32clearer skies. For many of us a band of rain moving east but behind it it

1:00:32 > 1:00:37will be much whiter than it has been the last couple of days with

1:00:37 > 1:00:41sunshine coming through. Mist and fog patches lifting from all but

1:00:41 > 1:00:44Northern Ireland where we still do have quite a bit of fog and that

1:00:44 > 1:00:55will slowly left into low at cloud and it won't lift for many at all.

1:00:55 > 1:00:59At the same time we've also got rain pushing over towards the east,

1:00:59 > 1:01:02lingering across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire into East Anglia to the

1:01:02 > 1:01:05course of the afternoon but move away from that and there is a

1:01:05 > 1:01:08handbag of cloud with the cloud continually breaking up and we will

1:01:08 > 1:01:16see sunshine, some of us already have the sunshine. Temperatures this

1:01:16 > 1:01:20afternoon in Plymouth night breezes will feel nice and across Wales,

1:01:20 > 1:01:25vastly improved compared to last few days, more bright spells and

1:01:25 > 1:01:28sunshine and higher temperatures. Northern Ireland will hang on to the

1:01:28 > 1:01:33low cloud with fog through the day for some, but it will be breaks it

1:01:33 > 1:01:36will be bright rather than sunny, western and central Scotland seeing

1:01:36 > 1:01:40sunshine, rain across the far north-east and also the Northern

1:01:40 > 1:01:42Isles. Through this evening and overnight we will so have some of

1:01:42 > 1:01:47this rain but with all the moisture in the atmosphere we are looking at

1:01:47 > 1:01:50some fog forming quite widespread tonight compared to the night just

1:01:50 > 1:01:54gone across Northern Ireland, parts of Wales, the Midlands and southern

1:01:54 > 1:01:59counties, there will also be patchy frost as well. Tomorrow the fog will

1:01:59 > 1:02:03take its time to clear for some it will lift into low cloud, for others

1:02:03 > 1:02:07it will not clear at all, it will have an adverse impact on the

1:02:07 > 1:02:10temperatures, it will feel cold if you're stuck underneath it but where

1:02:10 > 1:02:14it left and we expect that to be towards the West and the north we

1:02:14 > 1:02:18are looking at sunshine but tempered just that bit more low, the max

1:02:18 > 1:02:23temperature in Glasgow only three Celsius. Friday morning starts off

1:02:23 > 1:02:27on a grey note, once again with some patchy fog, touch of frost here and

1:02:27 > 1:02:30they are but the further east you are the brighter it will be because

1:02:30 > 1:02:34by then we will have another weather front waiting in the wings in the

1:02:34 > 1:02:38West which will bring in rain and some strengthening winds. Through

1:02:38 > 1:02:42the course of ready into Saturday it will move slowly from the west

1:02:42 > 1:02:45towards the east. The timing of this weather front could change so at the

1:02:45 > 1:02:50moment what we think Saturday is it will be wet across western Scotland

1:02:50 > 1:02:53and into West Wales and south-west England but if this slows up

1:02:53 > 1:02:57obviously it will be drier in some of those areas. The driest

1:02:57 > 1:03:05conditions once again will be the further east that you do travel.

1:03:08 > 1:03:10Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:03:10 > 1:03:13Charities who work with drug users in Manchester have told this

1:03:13 > 1:03:15programme that a new strain of the synthetic drug "spice"

1:03:15 > 1:03:20is having a devastating affect on the city.

1:03:20 > 1:03:26We knew a particular gentleman who is alcoholic and he was passed a

1:03:26 > 1:03:32joint. He didn't realise spice was in it. He took a couple of puffs and

1:03:32 > 1:03:37fell to the ground and he ended up dying a week later.

1:03:37 > 1:03:41We'll be speaking to people directly affected by the drug.

1:03:41 > 1:03:45f you've used spice or you're affected

1:03:45 > 1:03:48by people who use it, do get in touch and tell us what

1:03:48 > 1:03:56kind of difference the ban has made.

1:03:59 > 1:04:03No more macho "Your country needs you" and "Be the best" -

1:04:03 > 1:04:06the army is changing the way it advertises for new recruits in

1:04:06 > 1:04:08an attempt to demonstate it welcomes people from all backgrounds.

1:04:08 > 1:04:19I thought the Army was dominated by men.

1:04:19 > 1:04:21We'll speak to people who have served in the Armed Forces.

1:04:21 > 1:04:29Your reaction to this is very welcome.

1:04:31 > 1:04:34A French actress has said men should be allowed to "hit on women"

1:04:34 > 1:04:35without being forced out of their jobs.

1:04:35 > 1:04:38Catherine Deneuve is one of 100 well known french women to sign

1:04:38 > 1:04:41a letter in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal.

1:04:41 > 1:04:42We;ll speak to one of the signatures.

1:04:42 > 1:04:44Reeta is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

1:04:44 > 1:04:46of the rest of the day's news.

1:04:46 > 1:04:49At least 13 people have died in mudslides and floods

1:04:49 > 1:04:50in southern California.

1:04:50 > 1:04:52Witnesses say that torrents raged through the streets. Hundreds of

1:04:52 > 1:04:55people remain trapped in their homes. Emergency services said they

1:04:55 > 1:05:00expected the number of deaths to rise.

1:05:00 > 1:05:02The Army is launching a new recruitment campaign

1:05:02 > 1:05:03which emphasises the emotional and physical support

1:05:03 > 1:05:04given to soldiers.

1:05:04 > 1:05:07A series of radio and online adverts addresses concerns that potential

1:05:07 > 1:05:10recruits might have.

1:05:10 > 1:05:14There has been criticism from some former officers who have

1:05:14 > 1:05:21accused the Army of bowing to political correctness.

1:05:21 > 1:05:24The Ministry of Defence says its campaign has sparked significant

1:05:24 > 1:05:26interest from people in joining up.

1:05:26 > 1:05:29100 well-known French women have signed an open letter

1:05:29 > 1:05:31defending the right of men to make sexual advances.

1:05:31 > 1:05:34The actress Catherine Deneuve is one of the signatories who say

1:05:34 > 1:05:38the recent wave of denunciations of sexual harassment

1:05:38 > 1:05:40following the Harvey Weinstein affair is creating a new feminism

1:05:40 > 1:05:42defined by hatred of men and sexuality.

1:05:42 > 1:05:44In the open letter published in Le Monde, the women say

1:05:44 > 1:05:52there is a new puritanism afoot in the world.

1:05:54 > 1:06:03Two Burmese journalist have been charged in officialth court

1:06:05 > 1:06:06charged in officialth court with breaking Myanmar's official secrets

1:06:06 > 1:06:11act. The arrest of the two journalists, who work for the

1:06:11 > 1:06:14righters news agency, has been widely condemned.

1:06:14 > 1:06:18Passengers on Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern services

1:06:18 > 1:06:21have suffered the worst disruption of any rail franchise according

1:06:21 > 1:06:22to a highly critical report.

1:06:22 > 1:06:25The Government's spending watchdog, the National Audit Office,

1:06:25 > 1:06:26says the country's largest rail operator has failed

1:06:26 > 1:06:33to provide value for money.

1:06:33 > 1:06:38It says industrial action has been a factor for delays.

1:06:38 > 1:06:41The Government admitted the disruption has been unacceptable

1:06:41 > 1:06:48and called on the RMT to cancel needless strike action.

1:06:48 > 1:06:50New measures to clamp down on plastic waste are to be

1:06:50 > 1:06:53extended by the Government.

1:06:53 > 1:06:59Retailers with fewer than 250 staff are exempted from the levy.

1:06:59 > 1:07:03The idea is part of a 25 year plan to improve the environment.

1:07:03 > 1:07:05All retailers in Scotland and Wales are already required

1:07:05 > 1:07:07to charge for plastic bags.

1:07:07 > 1:07:09That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

1:07:09 > 1:07:11More at 10.30am.

1:07:11 > 1:07:17Thank you, Reeta.

1:07:17 > 1:07:23Thank you for your comments about free speech. A viewer tweets, "When

1:07:23 > 1:07:28free speech is sensored by the state, it is the start of a slippery

1:07:28 > 1:07:35slope of state control." Lisa says, "I am at university and I have in no

1:07:35 > 1:07:39issues regarding free speech. I don't think there is any need for

1:07:39 > 1:07:45the state to intervene." You can whatsapp and e-mail and so on, so

1:07:45 > 1:07:47forth.

1:07:47 > 1:07:51Here's some sport now with Sarah.

1:07:51 > 1:07:54Bristol City boss Lee Johnson believes his team can still topple

1:07:54 > 1:07:58Manchester City after pushing them to the limit at the Etihad Stadium.

1:07:58 > 1:08:00They were two minutes away from leaving with a draw

1:08:00 > 1:08:02until Sergio Aguero scored the late, late winner.

1:08:02 > 1:08:06Pep Guardiola was full of praise for how positive Bristol City were.

1:08:06 > 1:08:13They led just before the break after this penalty from Bobby Reid.

1:08:13 > 1:08:15City named a strong side and after the break, Kevin de

1:08:15 > 1:08:22Bruyne got them level.

1:08:22 > 1:08:25And just when you thought they would hold on for the draw -

1:08:25 > 1:08:26Aguero popped up to score the winner.

1:08:26 > 1:08:28Chelsea take on Arsenal in the second semifinal

1:08:28 > 1:08:29tonight at Stamford Bridge.

1:08:29 > 1:08:32But believe it or not, we're actually talking

1:08:32 > 1:08:34about Manchester United boss Jose Mourinho ahead of it!

1:08:34 > 1:08:38His feud with Antonio Conte shows no sign of stopping.

1:08:38 > 1:08:40The to and fro between the pair perhaps began

1:08:40 > 1:08:43back in October 2016.

1:08:43 > 1:08:47When Mourinho hit out at Conte for celebrating too hard

1:08:47 > 1:08:48after United lost 4-0 at Stamford Bridge.

1:08:48 > 1:08:53The pair have been bickering since.

1:08:53 > 1:08:56The latest from Conte, he's called Mourinhno a "little man"

1:08:56 > 1:08:58after he brought up Conte's "match-fixing suspension"

1:08:58 > 1:09:04last weekend.

1:09:04 > 1:09:09He looks a person that's very great, I don't think so. But I think we

1:09:09 > 1:09:13both say the things and we will see what happens in the future. I think

1:09:13 > 1:09:24that he said a series of words, used a series of words and I won't forget

1:09:24 > 1:09:28this. This is not a problem from the club.

1:09:28 > 1:09:31This is a problem between me and him.

1:09:31 > 1:09:36I stop. Stop.

1:09:36 > 1:09:38After the poor Ashes series, England's cricketers

1:09:38 > 1:09:40begin their one-day campaign with a match against

1:09:40 > 1:09:43a Cricket Australia Eleven, in Sydney tomorrow.

1:09:43 > 1:09:45That's ahead of the first one day international on Sunday

1:09:45 > 1:09:50and wicket keeper Joss Buttler says the players remain positive.

1:09:50 > 1:09:54History tells you, it is always a very, very tough tour coming here

1:09:54 > 1:10:02for England and playing in Australia and tough tour, but I think the guys

1:10:02 > 1:10:05will dust themselves down and come again. There is fantastic cricketers

1:10:05 > 1:10:08and the guys who are here seem in good spirits and I'm sure they are

1:10:08 > 1:10:14looking forward to the white ball arena and the freedom that brings.

1:10:14 > 1:10:15Former world number one, Novak Djokovic,

1:10:15 > 1:10:21says he intends to play in the Australian Open "for now".

1:10:21 > 1:10:23Djokovic, who has dropped to number 14 in the world,

1:10:23 > 1:10:25returned after six months out with an elbow injury

1:10:25 > 1:10:29to beat Dominic Thiem at the Kooyong Classic.

1:10:29 > 1:10:31He'll be chasing a record seventh Australian Open

1:10:31 > 1:10:32title if he competes at the tournament

1:10:32 > 1:10:37which begins on Monday.

1:10:37 > 1:10:40The elbow needed more time to recover. I am gating in the groove

1:10:40 > 1:10:44and getting my elbow from a match play and today was the first best of

1:10:44 > 1:10:49three match that I've played since Wimbledon last year. So, I'm very

1:10:49 > 1:10:55happy with the way it went. Heather Watson, the British number

1:10:55 > 1:11:00two is into the last eight at the Hobart International. And that's

1:11:00 > 1:11:05your sport for now. Thanks, Sarah.

1:11:05 > 1:11:07People who work with drug users in Manchester have told this

1:11:07 > 1:11:10programme that a new, ultra potent strain of the synthetic

1:11:10 > 1:11:18cannabinoid spice is causing devastating affects in the city.

1:11:18 > 1:11:21They say the ban on formerly "legal highs", introduced in May 2016,

1:11:21 > 1:11:23has made the epidemic in Manchester worse and more dangerous

1:11:23 > 1:11:25because users don't know how strong the strains

1:11:25 > 1:11:26are that they're smoking.

1:11:26 > 1:11:29Strains vary widely in potency, but evidence suggests that some can

1:11:29 > 1:11:30lead to hospitalisation or even death.

1:11:30 > 1:11:32Our reporter John Owen has been investigating.

1:11:32 > 1:11:34We bought you his full report earlier.

1:11:34 > 1:11:40Here's a short extract.

1:11:40 > 1:11:44It's early evening in Piccadilly Gardens on the edge

1:11:44 > 1:11:47of Manchester's Northern Quarter.

1:11:47 > 1:11:51And the human consequences of a substance known as Spice,

1:11:51 > 1:11:53a highly addictive synthetic form of cannabis, are plain to see.

1:11:53 > 1:11:56I mean, I smoke half an ounce a day.

1:11:56 > 1:11:59And that's, you know, I still seem normal.

1:11:59 > 1:12:03I'm not normal.

1:12:03 > 1:12:06But if you look at half of them, they haven't got

1:12:06 > 1:12:10a clue what day it is.

1:12:10 > 1:12:13I just wish now I knew a way of getting away from it.

1:12:13 > 1:12:19So-called legal highs like Spice were made illegal in May of 2016.

1:12:19 > 1:12:21But it's clear that among the rough sleeper and homeless communities

1:12:21 > 1:12:23here, they are as prevalent as ever.

1:12:23 > 1:12:26And now, two front-line charities have expressed fears that

1:12:26 > 1:12:29a new and much stronger strain may have entered circulation

1:12:29 > 1:12:35with potentially life-threatening consequences.

1:12:35 > 1:12:36An organisation here that's distributing food

1:12:36 > 1:12:38to the rough sleeper community.

1:12:38 > 1:12:41As you walk past, you can really smell that very

1:12:41 > 1:12:43distinctive Spice smell.

1:12:43 > 1:12:46It's almost an acrid, really chemical smell,

1:12:46 > 1:12:52and it's all around that area where the food is being distributed.

1:12:52 > 1:12:55At Life Share, a charity that works with vulnerable young people,

1:12:55 > 1:12:58Julie has been seeing the effects of this drug up close for some time.

1:12:58 > 1:13:01And she has no doubt that the strength of what's

1:13:01 > 1:13:09being smoked has increased in recent weeks.

1:13:12 > 1:13:15We have got people coming in absolutely white as a ghost.

1:13:15 > 1:13:17Non-coherent, frothing at the mouth, literally eyes rolling

1:13:17 > 1:13:19about in the back of the head.

1:13:19 > 1:13:20And this new strain, you could literally be

1:13:20 > 1:13:23talking to somebody, and you turn around and they're

1:13:23 > 1:13:24just literally gone.

1:13:24 > 1:13:26We seek Spice addiction on a daily basis.

1:13:26 > 1:13:28And as I say, this one that's around at the minute,

1:13:28 > 1:13:29is really, really worrying.

1:13:29 > 1:13:32Back on the streets we spoke to one man who didn't

1:13:32 > 1:13:33want his face to be shown.

1:13:33 > 1:13:36But he told us that after taking a drag on what he thought

1:13:36 > 1:13:38was an ordinary roll-up, he completely lost control

1:13:38 > 1:13:39for several hours.

1:13:39 > 1:13:42The tobacco had been mixed with an ultra-strong strain of Spice.

1:13:42 > 1:13:43Just one pull.

1:13:43 > 1:13:44One pull?

1:13:44 > 1:13:45One pull, yeah.

1:13:45 > 1:13:47Dr Oliver Sutcliffe of Manchester Metropolitan University

1:13:47 > 1:13:49conducts tests on samples of Spice for the police.

1:13:49 > 1:13:51Spice samples vary widely in their potency.

1:13:51 > 1:13:53But the most recent generation is the strongest

1:13:53 > 1:13:56they've encountered.

1:13:56 > 1:13:59They are significantly more potent than the other previous generations

1:13:59 > 1:14:03that have been seen.

1:14:03 > 1:14:06He told us that unlike before the ban, when Spice was sold

1:14:06 > 1:14:08in packaging with information about a given strain,

1:14:08 > 1:14:11there is almost no way to tell in advance how strong Spice sold

1:14:11 > 1:14:12on the streets might be.

1:14:12 > 1:14:15It's almost like putting a loaded gun to your head,

1:14:15 > 1:14:16playing Russian roulette.

1:14:16 > 1:14:19Almost everybody we spoke to said they knew of someone who had been

1:14:19 > 1:14:27hospitalised or died from using spies.

1:14:27 > 1:14:28hospitalised or died from using spice.

1:14:28 > 1:14:31And evidence of this drug leaving ruined lives in its wake

1:14:31 > 1:14:32is all too abundant here.

1:14:32 > 1:14:37With strains like the ones now said to be at large in Manchester,

1:14:37 > 1:14:40Let's talk about this more now with Peter Morgan,

1:14:40 > 1:14:44who works with young homeless people in Manchester and recently

1:14:44 > 1:14:49wrote his first novel, Spice Boys, about spice users in the city.

1:14:49 > 1:14:52Jeremy Sare is from the alcohol and drugs prevention charity,

1:14:52 > 1:14:53Mentor.

1:14:53 > 1:14:56And joining us from Cannock is Lee Harris, who's taken spice

1:14:56 > 1:14:59when he was homeless.

1:14:59 > 1:15:02Thank you very much. Peter, do you agree that banning the drug has made

1:15:02 > 1:15:07it worse for some people, because it puts it into the hands of the

1:15:07 > 1:15:10dealers and without packaging, users have no idea how strong the strain

1:15:10 > 1:15:15is they're taking?Yes, I agree because it makes it more accessible.

1:15:15 > 1:15:19Ie the person pedalling it will bring it to you first thing in the

1:15:19 > 1:15:23morning and then you have your spice. You can go begging, get the

1:15:23 > 1:15:27money, pay him off and he will lay you back on. It is easily

1:15:27 > 1:15:30accessible.The Home Office tell us today that the ban on these

1:15:30 > 1:15:34substances has given the police the power to arrest hundreds of dealers,

1:15:34 > 1:15:38some of whom are behind bars with more cases progressing through the

1:15:38 > 1:15:42courts, the use of psycho active substances has fallen significantly

1:15:42 > 1:15:46they say since the Government outlawed legal highs in 2016. The

1:15:46 > 1:15:50first offenders have been convicted, over 300 retailers have closed down

1:15:50 > 1:15:54and stopped selling the drugs and they say through our new drugs

1:15:54 > 1:15:57strategy, we are focussing on education, treatment and support for

1:15:57 > 1:16:01people who are dependant on drugs including homeless people. So many

1:16:01 > 1:16:08more dealers have been arrested since it was banned?

1:16:08 > 1:16:11Yeah, that's right, but the issue is the number of young

1:16:11 > 1:16:12Yeah, that's right, but the issue is the number of young people using it

1:16:12 > 1:16:17is quite low but it doesn't happen in nice affluent areas of the

1:16:17 > 1:16:25country, it's the most socially excluded and entrenched in

1:16:25 > 1:16:27excluded and entrenched in poverty, there is no pathway for them to go

1:16:27 > 1:16:31to if they are a crack addict or heroin addict they can go somewhere

1:16:31 > 1:16:35and get treated but right now it's the most honourable in society, the

1:16:35 > 1:16:38broadest of the poor we could see who are addicted and having this

1:16:38 > 1:16:42drug pushed on them and we don't know what it's even doing to them.

1:16:42 > 1:16:46We do know some of it, I have an e-mail from a nurse who does not

1:16:46 > 1:16:51wish to give their name which is fine, I am a nurse in the Manchester

1:16:51 > 1:16:54intensive care unit and we are seeing increasing number of patients

1:16:54 > 1:16:59admitted with horrific injuries after using Spice including walking

1:16:59 > 1:17:04in front of trams and walking off bridges and tall buildings. We also

1:17:04 > 1:17:08admit a lot of prisoners and have been told by prison staff it's quite

1:17:08 > 1:17:12common for long-term established inmates to test out the strengths of

1:17:12 > 1:17:17the drug on new, young, impressionable and intimidated

1:17:17 > 1:17:19prisoners. Some of these young people have been left with like long

1:17:19 > 1:17:23brain injuries and disabilities. This drug is horrific and more needs

1:17:23 > 1:17:28to be done to help vulnerable people.I totally agree with this.

1:17:28 > 1:17:34One thing we have discovered in our accommodations is young female Spice

1:17:34 > 1:17:40users are no longer getting pregnant while using Spice. I have spoken to

1:17:40 > 1:17:44the MP, we always have a young girl who is pregnant in our accommodation

1:17:44 > 1:17:48but I have spoken to five different supported accommodations and say

1:17:48 > 1:17:52show me one young girl who is using Spice who is now pregnant? There is

1:17:52 > 1:17:59no study our money being pumped into this to see if this is coincidence

1:17:59 > 1:18:03or if it an effect, is it making them infertile temporarily or in the

1:18:03 > 1:18:10long term?That is something new you have brought to the audience today.

1:18:10 > 1:18:14Let me bring in Lee, you were watching us this morning and you

1:18:14 > 1:18:18used to use this stuff for a couple of years when it was legal, what do

1:18:18 > 1:18:22you think about the fact it appears to be getting stronger and the

1:18:22 > 1:18:29reasons why?I think inevitably it is going to get stronger because

1:18:29 > 1:18:32instead of us try to sort the problem out in this country we just

1:18:32 > 1:18:38criminalise everything. So when cannabis was brought down, brought

1:18:38 > 1:18:43up to class B, all of a sudden people started looking for cheaper

1:18:43 > 1:18:50alternatives which is when Spice went big. As they ban every chemical

1:18:50 > 1:18:54be used to make Spice out of, chemists in China, but the stronger

1:18:54 > 1:19:02chemical which has not been banned. When you were taking it... When you

1:19:02 > 1:19:08are taking it, described to our audience what it made you feel?If

1:19:08 > 1:19:14you can imagine, I don't know, ten pints of strong lager. Straightaway.

1:19:14 > 1:19:20Just within a matter of seconds. All of a sudden you are very, very, very

1:19:20 > 1:19:25out of it. You are busy, feeling sick. Bewildered. Nothing like

1:19:25 > 1:19:36cannabis.So what was the attraction for you?It was cheaper. The rot

1:19:36 > 1:19:40cannabis back up to clasp the, rather than decriminalising it and

1:19:40 > 1:19:44helping people. They brought it up to class B so the cheapest option

1:19:44 > 1:19:50then was to try Spice.Understood, let me bring in Jeremy from the

1:19:50 > 1:19:58alcohol and drugs prevention charity Mentors. The psychoactive substances

1:19:58 > 1:20:01act, this statement from the Home Office, more dealers are being

1:20:01 > 1:20:04arrested but there is a serious problem on the streets of Manchester

1:20:04 > 1:20:10and possibly elsewhere, what is to be done?We had to step back and see

1:20:10 > 1:20:13the purpose of the psychoactive substances act was to address a wide

1:20:13 > 1:20:20range of what were known as legal highs, not just Spice, stimulants

1:20:20 > 1:20:23and hallucinogenic 's, a whole range of them and they were available to

1:20:23 > 1:20:27be purchased on the high street. I think that was the main thrust of

1:20:27 > 1:20:33the legislation to eradicate that market. Of course the law is quite a

1:20:33 > 1:20:41blunt instrument and it has left this market which is vulnerable

1:20:41 > 1:20:49people suffering very significantly harm.So what now?I think, the

1:20:49 > 1:20:54nurse said, vulnerable people need to be helped and I think that is an

1:20:54 > 1:20:58area where the Home Office statement is somewhat lacking because the

1:20:58 > 1:21:04commitment and investment into education and treatment I am afraid

1:21:04 > 1:21:09is not at a level, certainly we are seeing this as the impact which is

1:21:09 > 1:21:16the consequence.Dean has detected to say I have a son on Spice who

1:21:16 > 1:21:20came home with wires coming out of his chest after getting out of

1:21:20 > 1:21:24hospital and then went back out to smoke Spice again. It has destroyed

1:21:24 > 1:21:31his and my life. Are you saying there are broadly speaking fewer

1:21:31 > 1:21:35people using Spice since the ban but those who are being affected are

1:21:35 > 1:21:40being disproportionately affected? Yeah, it's not widespread

1:21:40 > 1:21:46nationally, it is in certain hotspots. Manchester has the worst,

1:21:46 > 1:21:49Wrexham, Bristol, Lincoln, these are areas where those communities are

1:21:49 > 1:21:56suffering and that is where we need much more coordination between

1:21:56 > 1:22:01services, there is an all-party parliamentary group and we have a

1:22:01 > 1:22:07Round Table where we have the MP for Manchester, the councillors and the

1:22:07 > 1:22:12police and other representatives from different communities about how

1:22:12 > 1:22:18we can best coordinate the services as they are because enforcement is

1:22:18 > 1:22:23definitely not the only answer. It cannot be. We have got to be

1:22:23 > 1:22:29offering a lot more treatment as Peter points out, there is not

1:22:29 > 1:22:35sufficient level of treatment and that is a view shared by established

1:22:35 > 1:22:39establishment groups such as the local government Association and the

1:22:39 > 1:22:42advisory Council for the misuse of drugs and they are being

1:22:42 > 1:22:47particularly critical about cutbacks which are counter-productive and

1:22:47 > 1:22:53essentially false economy.Another e-mail from Stephen saying I had to

1:22:53 > 1:22:56assist the man who in his 30s who was not homeless who had taken Spice

1:22:56 > 1:23:01in London and had to be put in the recovery position. Fortunately an

1:23:01 > 1:23:05ambulance turned up quickly and CPR was undertaken, he was still alive,

1:23:05 > 1:23:08just, when we put him in the ambulance. This is quite shocking

1:23:08 > 1:23:21stuff. Thank you for coming on the programme gentleman.

1:23:21 > 1:23:25programme gentleman. Your views are welcome, particularly if you have a

1:23:25 > 1:23:28experience, we heard from a nurse and a probation officer this morning

1:23:28 > 1:23:33and it all feeds into the conversation, thank you. Still to

1:23:33 > 1:23:36come a body has been found in a garden in greater Manchester after a

1:23:36 > 1:23:40woman walked into a police station and told officers she had killed and

1:23:40 > 1:23:43buried a man and number of years ago. We will get the latest from the

1:23:43 > 1:23:45scene.

1:23:45 > 1:23:48Next this morning - do some of the things

1:23:48 > 1:23:49we think we know about depression need challenging?

1:23:49 > 1:23:52Johann Hari thinks so.

1:23:52 > 1:23:53He's a journalist and author and former columnist

1:23:53 > 1:23:58for the Independent newspaper.

1:23:58 > 1:24:01He was diagnosed with depression as a teenager and was prescribed

1:24:01 > 1:24:04anti-depressants when he was 18 and continued to take the pills

1:24:04 > 1:24:07for the next 13 years.

1:24:07 > 1:24:09Throughout that time he realised that he was still depressed.

1:24:09 > 1:24:11He's now written a book called Lost Connections -

1:24:11 > 1:24:13which explores the causes of depression and anxiety -

1:24:13 > 1:24:17and he argues that instead of trying to mute the symptoms with drugs -

1:24:17 > 1:24:20we need to fundamentally change the way we live our lives to get

1:24:20 > 1:24:24to deal with the root causes.

1:24:24 > 1:24:27In 2011 his newspaper career ended after it emerged he'd passed off

1:24:27 > 1:24:30other writers' material as his own.

1:24:30 > 1:24:34If you have experience of depression then please do get

1:24:34 > 1:24:36in touch to give your view on what Johann Hari talks

1:24:36 > 1:24:42to us about today.

1:24:42 > 1:24:47Good morning to you, thank you for coming on the programme. You argue

1:24:47 > 1:24:53depression can be often a rational reaction to a situation, not always

1:24:53 > 1:24:58down to a brain malfunction, tell us more and why you have reached that

1:24:58 > 1:25:01conclusion?I wanted to read the book because I was haunted by

1:25:01 > 1:25:06mysteries I could not find the answer to, firstly why was I still

1:25:06 > 1:25:10depressed? When I was a teenager I had gone to the doctor and said I

1:25:10 > 1:25:13had a feeling like pain was leaking out of me, I could not control it

1:25:13 > 1:25:17and the doctor told me a story, there is a chemical called

1:25:17 > 1:25:20serotonin, some people lack it and you are one of them, we will give

1:25:20 > 1:25:25you these

1:25:27 > 1:25:29you these drugs to get your level back and I felt relief and a

1:25:29 > 1:25:32significant boost when I started taking them. Within a few months the

1:25:32 > 1:25:35pain started coming back through, I went back and he give me a bigger

1:25:35 > 1:25:38dose until in the end I was on the maximum dose for 13 years. I ended

1:25:38 > 1:25:40that was still depressed and I wondered why but the biggest

1:25:40 > 1:25:45question was why other so many other people like me? One in 11 people in

1:25:45 > 1:25:47Britain are now so distressed they feel the need to drug themselves to

1:25:47 > 1:25:51get through the day. There are more people who are depressed and anxious

1:25:51 > 1:26:01who are not doing that. I thought it cannot just be something going wrong

1:26:01 > 1:26:03inside the chemistry of our brains, that seems to be rising. So I

1:26:03 > 1:26:05interviewed scientists around the world and people with different

1:26:05 > 1:26:08perspectives and the main thing I learned was the story the doctor

1:26:08 > 1:26:12told me was not true. Professor it's deeply misleading to say low

1:26:12 > 1:26:18serotonin causes depression. I found that challenging but there is a

1:26:18 > 1:26:21better story about oppression waiting for us which is partly that

1:26:21 > 1:26:25we know all human beings have physical needs. We need food,

1:26:25 > 1:26:28warmth, clean air, if we are deprived of them we will be in

1:26:28 > 1:26:32trouble. There is equal evidence we have deep psychological needs, you

1:26:32 > 1:26:35need to feel you belong and your life has meaning and purpose. You

1:26:35 > 1:26:39need to feel you have a stable and secure future and in our culture

1:26:39 > 1:26:43less people are getting those needs met and that is the main, not the

1:26:43 > 1:26:48only but the main reason we this crisis.So if you are lonely or

1:26:48 > 1:26:54breed or are in a rubbish job and feel you are trapped and have no

1:26:54 > 1:26:58control, it can potentially lead to depression as well as possibly low

1:26:58 > 1:27:02serotonin and other psychological reasons?It was striking to look at

1:27:02 > 1:27:08it, if you had a dramatic childhood you are 3100% more likely to become

1:27:08 > 1:27:13suicidally depressed as an adult. If you are acutely lonely, it's a deep

1:27:13 > 1:27:19cause of depression.We know that. We know that. Don't we?Yes but I

1:27:19 > 1:27:22think we have a weird disconnect, it is almost the mall, common sense

1:27:22 > 1:27:27that if your life has gone wrong you will feel unhappy but we've not

1:27:27 > 1:27:31acted on that. I can give you an example, there was a doctor in

1:27:31 > 1:27:35London, a wonderful man, he had loads of patients coming to him in

1:27:35 > 1:27:39his surgery who were really depressed and he talked to them and

1:27:39 > 1:27:42you think it makes sense you are depressed, you are lonely and

1:27:42 > 1:27:48isolated and he felt it was an ethnically questionable decision, it

1:27:48 > 1:27:51is inadequate to the skill of the problem. So he tried something

1:27:51 > 1:27:56different. One patient was a woman called Lisa who had been shut away

1:27:56 > 1:27:59in a home for seven years with terrible depression and anxiety and

1:27:59 > 1:28:03he said I will keep scribbling in the drugs if you want but I will

1:28:03 > 1:28:07prescribe you to take part in a group. The one she was assigned to,

1:28:07 > 1:28:11there was an area of scrubland at the back of the surgery and they

1:28:11 > 1:28:14said this group of people Will you meet a couple times a week and turn

1:28:14 > 1:28:18it into something beautiful. They kept going and as they got their

1:28:18 > 1:28:21fingers into the dark and had a place to meet to talk to each other

1:28:21 > 1:28:26that was not talking about how bad the felt and as Lisa puts it, as the

1:28:26 > 1:28:34garden can ban to bloom we began to bloom. There was similar thing in

1:28:34 > 1:28:40Norway that showed programmes like this work as effective. Gardening

1:28:40 > 1:28:43programmes for depressed and anxious people. It goes with what you said,

1:28:43 > 1:28:48it dealt with the reason why they were depressed and anxious in the

1:28:48 > 1:28:52first place.You compare the publication of drug trials to taking

1:28:52 > 1:28:58a selfie, explain that analogy?It was shocking in terms of how we have

1:28:58 > 1:29:01oversold antidepressants. They have a real role and I don't want to take

1:29:01 > 1:29:06anything away from anyone. But we all know if you take selfie is at

1:29:06 > 1:29:11least with me, you take 40 and throw away the first 39 were you have a

1:29:11 > 1:29:15double chin or whatever and the 40th is the one which becomes your

1:29:15 > 1:29:19profile picture. Turned out with the drug trials a similar thing happens.

1:29:19 > 1:29:23When they were researching how much help people get from antidepressants

1:29:23 > 1:29:27the drug companies would commission loads of trials, the equivalent of

1:29:27 > 1:29:31the 40 selfie 's and most of them were never published, the ones which

1:29:31 > 1:29:35showed low or mixed results were never published, the only published

1:29:35 > 1:29:41the ones which looked good. 247 people given the drug and only 27

1:29:41 > 1:29:44people's results were published and those were the people for whom it

1:29:44 > 1:29:50worked. It exaggerates the number of people, between, I thought I was a

1:29:50 > 1:29:53freak for being on antidepressants and still feeling terrible. But I

1:29:53 > 1:29:59was normal, between 65 and 80% of people taking antidepressants become

1:29:59 > 1:30:03depressed again in a year.The information about drug trial results

1:30:03 > 1:30:11being published came from a professor at Harvard.It comes from

1:30:11 > 1:30:15lots of scientists, it is widely acknowledged across the field.Is

1:30:15 > 1:30:19it? The Association of the British pharmaceutical industry tell us the

1:30:19 > 1:30:25code of practice requires drugs are published within 12 months of the

1:30:25 > 1:30:30first regulatory approval for trial completion and the disclosure rate

1:30:30 > 1:30:37of farmer led potential trials is at a record 93% of new medicines.The

1:30:37 > 1:30:40regulator...What you are seeing is the opposite of what they are

1:30:40 > 1:30:45saying.This is what the professors have looked at in detail, the look

1:30:45 > 1:30:50that, when you apply for a drug to come to market in the US you had to

1:30:50 > 1:30:54submit it to the Federal drug and food agency, you have to submit the

1:30:54 > 1:31:02equivalent of all yourself these. So he did the first Freedom of

1:31:02 > 1:31:05information request to get all of those so they all have to be, in

1:31:05 > 1:31:08that case they have to be submitted but they are not made public. That

1:31:08 > 1:31:12is part of the problem. The other thing which is shocking is you or

1:31:12 > 1:31:16me, you can do 1000 trials and you only have to do two which show some

1:31:16 > 1:31:20effect to be able to drink the drug to market and I think people know

1:31:20 > 1:31:27this problem.

1:31:28 > 1:31:33The disclosure rate is 93%?That's not the case in the United States

1:31:33 > 1:31:39where most of the drugs originate. The situation in the US which we

1:31:39 > 1:31:42have studied carefully is they are submitted to the regulator, but not

1:31:42 > 1:31:47shown to the public. You only have to have two out of thousands which

1:31:47 > 1:31:54show some effects. You can submit the trials and submit 998 trials and

1:31:54 > 1:31:592 effective ones and you can submit it to the marred debt. Ket.You say

1:31:59 > 1:32:04in 13 years, no doctor, no GP asked you why are you feeling like this?

1:32:04 > 1:32:08Why are you distressed? Really? No doctor ever asked you?No.That

1:32:08 > 1:32:12can't be right, can it?It is unacceptable and it happened to a

1:32:12 > 1:32:17lot of people who are going to their doctor's. It is better now because

1:32:17 > 1:32:21some people are referred to short courses of CBT.They have a check

1:32:21 > 1:32:27list of things to ask you if you go in with anxiety or depression.This

1:32:27 > 1:32:32would have been the mid-90s that was going. One thing that helped me

1:32:32 > 1:32:38change by prospective. A doctor was in Cambodia when chemical

1:32:38 > 1:32:42antidepressants were introduced. The doctors didn't know what they were

1:32:42 > 1:32:47and they said we don't need them. He thought they were going to talk

1:32:47 > 1:32:52about a herbal remedy. They said, we will tell you a story. They told him

1:32:52 > 1:32:57a guy who worked in the rice fields and one day he stood on a land mine

1:32:57 > 1:33:04and had his leg blown off. He went back to work in the field and it was

1:33:04 > 1:33:09painful. He became depressed and we listened to him and realised how he

1:33:09 > 1:33:16is in pain and we thought if we buy him a cow and he won't be depressed

1:33:16 > 1:33:21and they bought him a cow. If you were taught to think the way that

1:33:21 > 1:33:25depression is a problem in your brain, that sounds like a joke. You

1:33:25 > 1:33:30are not broken. You are not a machine with broken parts. You are a

1:33:30 > 1:33:34human being with unmet needs and you need help to get the needs met.

1:33:34 > 1:33:38That's the sustainable path out of depression for most people.OK.

1:33:38 > 1:33:42David says, "Antidepressants are not the sole cure of depression. Any GP

1:33:42 > 1:33:46will tell you that. You have to work at the root of the problem with

1:33:46 > 1:33:54other tools as well."I agree.Jim says, "Why are you giving airtime to

1:33:54 > 1:33:57the notorious having failed to make money stealing other journalists

1:33:57 > 1:34:05working he is preying on sick people. What a Charlottan.There

1:34:05 > 1:34:10were two things I did wrong when working at Independent. I had took

1:34:10 > 1:34:15things that they had written or said to other people and presented them

1:34:15 > 1:34:20as if they were said to me. Online I was spiteful about other people

1:34:20 > 1:34:24under a pseudonym. When you screw up like that, you should pay a really

1:34:24 > 1:34:29big price. I did pay a big price, I resigned from a job I loved and I

1:34:29 > 1:34:35was shut out for three years and I went away and wrote a book to really

1:34:35 > 1:34:38demonstrate, I wanted to demonstrate maximum transparency to show I

1:34:38 > 1:34:43wasn't doing that again. I put all of the audio for everything that was

1:34:43 > 1:34:46said in the book, people can hear it being said to me, I have done that

1:34:46 > 1:34:51with the new book as well, but it is understandable, when you screw up,

1:34:51 > 1:34:55people should hold you accountable, people should continue to say, "How

1:34:55 > 1:34:59do we, why should we listen to you?" This is part of the price I pay for

1:34:59 > 1:35:05it.Do you know why you did what you did?I do. I'm reluctant to talk

1:35:05 > 1:35:10about that in this context because if I start doing that, what and I

1:35:10 > 1:35:14don't want to do this by myself, it is like saying see it from my point

1:35:14 > 1:35:18of view and when you screw up and do things that hurt you, you should

1:35:18 > 1:35:21encourage people to see it from the point of the view of the people you

1:35:21 > 1:35:24have hurt, the readers of the Independent, the people who worked

1:35:24 > 1:35:29at the Independent with me, and the people I was nasty about. So I would

1:35:29 > 1:35:32rather people had their stories about it and saw it from their point

1:35:32 > 1:35:36of view and I have thought a lot about the an to your question, but I

1:35:36 > 1:35:41won't talk about it in that context for this reason.Have you thought

1:35:41 > 1:35:46about whether there might have been a link between what you did and your

1:35:46 > 1:35:50anxiety and depression?I don't think there is. I think it was my

1:35:50 > 1:35:52character flaws. I think it was things that were wrong with my

1:35:52 > 1:35:56personality. No, there is a big difference from the things that we

1:35:56 > 1:36:01are talking about here and that.How do you reflect on that time now?I

1:36:01 > 1:36:05reflect on it a lot in ways that I would rather not talk about because

1:36:05 > 1:36:09I don't want to sound like people should see it from my point of view.

1:36:09 > 1:36:13The main thing is demonstrating to people you can see very clearly, you

1:36:13 > 1:36:18just go to the lost connections.com and you can see I've not done that

1:36:18 > 1:36:22again and one thing that was really moving was how many people, you

1:36:22 > 1:36:26know, even people who were critical of my previous book and the

1:36:26 > 1:36:30arguments said this is a really transparent and robust book.OK.

1:36:30 > 1:36:34Thank you very much.Thanks, Victoria. I really enjoyed it.Thank

1:36:34 > 1:36:37you for coming on the programme.

1:36:37 > 1:36:40If you're affected by depression and want help of advice -

1:36:40 > 1:36:42you can find details of organisations offering

1:36:42 > 1:36:45information and support with mental health at bbc.co.uk/actionline,

1:36:45 > 1:36:48or you can call for free, at any time to hear recorded

1:36:48 > 1:36:55information on 08000 564 756.

1:36:55 > 1:36:56Still to come:

1:36:56 > 1:36:58100 French woman have signed a letter complaining

1:36:58 > 1:37:01about a new "puritanism" in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal.

1:37:01 > 1:37:05We'll get reaction from here and in France.

1:37:05 > 1:37:07The Army launches a new advertising campaign in an attempt

1:37:07 > 1:37:09to be more inclusive.

1:37:09 > 1:37:15But critics say it doesn't target those most likely to sign-up.

1:37:15 > 1:37:20We will show you the new ads and you can tell us if you think they work.

1:37:20 > 1:37:25Time for the latest news - here's Reeta.

1:37:25 > 1:37:27At least 13 people have died in flash floods and mudslides

1:37:27 > 1:37:29in southern California.

1:37:29 > 1:37:32Dramatic footage has emerged showing a family being airlifted to safety

1:37:32 > 1:37:34from their home in Santa Barbara.

1:37:34 > 1:37:37Emergency services say hundreds more remain trapped.

1:37:37 > 1:37:40Witnesses say torrents raged through the streets and boulders

1:37:40 > 1:37:41the size of cars rolled down the hillsides.

1:37:41 > 1:37:43Emergency services said they expected the number

1:37:43 > 1:37:49of deaths to rise.

1:37:49 > 1:37:51The Army is launching a new recruitment campaign

1:37:51 > 1:37:52which emphasises the emotional and physical support

1:37:52 > 1:37:53given to soldiers.

1:37:53 > 1:37:56A series of radio and online adverts addresses concerns that potential

1:37:56 > 1:38:01recruits might have.

1:38:01 > 1:38:04There has been criticism from some former officers who have

1:38:04 > 1:38:09accused the Army of bowing to political correctness.

1:38:09 > 1:38:12The Ministry of Defence says its campaign has sparked significant

1:38:12 > 1:38:19interest from people in joining up.

1:38:19 > 1:38:22Two Burmese journalist have been charged in officialth court with

1:38:22 > 1:38:27breaking Myanmar's official secrets act.

1:38:27 > 1:38:33They were handed documents last month.

1:38:33 > 1:38:40The arrest of the two journalists, who work

1:38:40 > 1:38:43The arrest of the two journalists, who work for a news agency,

1:38:43 > 1:38:47has been widely condemned.

1:38:47 > 1:38:51We can show you some pictures from Southern California now -

1:38:51 > 1:38:57where rescuers are searching for survivors after devastating

1:38:57 > 1:38:59rains led to the deaths of at least 13 people.

1:38:59 > 1:39:04Here we can see the San Diego Coast Guard rescuing

1:39:04 > 1:39:06a family and their pets in Santa Barbara County

1:39:06 > 1:39:10by helicopter.

1:39:10 > 1:39:15The area has seen major mudslides following the rain.

1:39:15 > 1:39:17Witnesses have described boulders the size of small cars

1:39:17 > 1:39:23rolling down the hillside.

1:39:23 > 1:39:31And the death toll of 13 is expected to rise.

1:39:31 > 1:39:33Here's some sport now.

1:39:33 > 1:39:37Bristol City were two minutes away from holding Premier League leaders

1:39:37 > 1:39:40Manchester City in the first leg of their League Cup semi-final.

1:39:40 > 1:39:42The sides were level at 1-1 before Sergio Aguero popped

1:39:42 > 1:39:45up in stoppage time to give Pep Guardiola's side a slim

1:39:45 > 1:39:48advantage going into the second leg at Ashton Gate in a fortnight.

1:39:48 > 1:39:51The war of words continues between Antonio Conte and Jose Mourinho.

1:39:51 > 1:39:53The Chelsea boss called Mourinhno a "little man" and says

1:39:53 > 1:39:55"he won't forget this", after the Manchester United manager

1:39:55 > 1:40:00brought up Conte's "match-fixing suspension" last weekend.

1:40:00 > 1:40:02And British number two, Heather Watson is through the last

1:40:02 > 1:40:04eight at the Hobart International.

1:40:04 > 1:40:12That's after a straight sets win over Australian Jamiee Fourlis.

1:40:12 > 1:40:23And that's your sport headlines.

1:40:27 > 1:40:31A legendary French actor has defended men's right to "hit

1:40:31 > 1:40:38on women" without being forced out of their jobs.

1:40:38 > 1:40:40Catherine Deneuve - who's best known for her role

1:40:40 > 1:40:44as a bored housewife in Belle de Jour - was one of 100 well known

1:40:44 > 1:40:47French women to sign a letter complaining about a new "puritanism"

1:40:47 > 1:40:49in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal.

1:40:49 > 1:40:51They letter says, "Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone,

1:40:51 > 1:40:54even persistently or cack-handedly, is not - nor is men being

1:40:54 > 1:40:55gentlemanly a chauvanist attack.

1:40:55 > 1:40:58Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs

1:40:58 > 1:41:00when all they did was touch someone's knee or try

1:41:00 > 1:41:07to steal a kiss".

1:41:07 > 1:41:09The authors argued that there was a new "puritanism"

1:41:09 > 1:41:10afoot in the world.

1:41:10 > 1:41:13They said that while it was legitimate and necessary to speak

1:41:13 > 1:41:15out against the abuse of power by some men, the constant

1:41:15 > 1:41:17denunciations have spiralled out of control.

1:41:17 > 1:41:19According to the writers, this is creating a public mood

1:41:19 > 1:41:25in which women are seen as powerless, as perpetual victims.

1:41:25 > 1:41:27As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism,

1:41:27 > 1:41:33which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred

1:41:33 > 1:41:34of men and of sexuality.

1:41:34 > 1:41:37Men had been dragged through the mud, they argued,

1:41:37 > 1:41:40for "talking about intimate subjects during professional dinners

1:41:40 > 1:41:42or for sending sexually charged messages to women who did not

1:41:42 > 1:41:47return their attentions".

1:41:47 > 1:41:53The letter attacked feminist social media campaigns like # MeToo

1:41:53 > 1:41:58and its French equivalent.

1:41:58 > 1:42:00For unleashing this "puritanical wave of purification".

1:42:00 > 1:42:02It claimed that "legitimate protest against the sexual violence that

1:42:02 > 1:42:04women are subject to, particularly in their

1:42:04 > 1:42:05professional lives," had turned into a witch-hunt.

1:42:05 > 1:42:08"What began as freeing women up to speak has today

1:42:08 > 1:42:11turned into the opposite, we intimidate people

1:42:11 > 1:42:14into speaking "correctly", shout down those who don't fall

1:42:14 > 1:42:17into line, and those women who refused to bend

1:42:17 > 1:42:25to the new are regarded as complicit and traitors."

1:42:25 > 1:42:30The signatories, who included a porn star-turned-agony aunt,

1:42:30 > 1:42:33claimed they were defending sexual freedom for which "the liberty to

1:42:33 > 1:42:34seduce and importune was essential".

1:42:34 > 1:42:36With me in the studio is Charlie Cuff, she's

1:42:36 > 1:42:38a writer and campaigner from The Second Source,

1:42:38 > 1:42:40a group of women journalists working to end sexual harassment

1:42:40 > 1:42:41in the media.

1:42:41 > 1:42:46She has faced unwanted sexual advances.

1:42:46 > 1:42:50Rosie Millard is a feminist and campaigner.

1:42:50 > 1:42:52And in our Leeds studio, Aisha Ali Khan, writer and blogger,

1:42:52 > 1:42:58who was subjected to sexual harassment whilst working

1:42:58 > 1:43:03as a parliamentary aide.

1:43:03 > 1:43:11Hello. Good morning. How do you respond to the letter?

1:43:11 > 1:43:18Well, I think that obviously, you know, tapping someone on the knee or

1:43:18 > 1:43:22flirting gently or smiling, you know, sexual attraction will happen

1:43:22 > 1:43:26in the workplace.The point about the letter is... Even that behaviour

1:43:26 > 1:43:30is not allowed anymore and that's what they are protesting against?I

1:43:30 > 1:43:33think that's ridiculous. The thing is, it is all very well for

1:43:33 > 1:43:35Catherine Deneuve to say this, but Catherine Deneuve is a powerful

1:43:35 > 1:43:40woman. She is a global icon and you know, it is easy for her to say

1:43:40 > 1:43:45treat me with respect, and also you know, you can flirt with me and if

1:43:45 > 1:43:50you are not allowed to, that makes me feel like a victim, like a child,

1:43:50 > 1:43:54don't treat me like there, I am a woman of my, I can tell someone to

1:43:54 > 1:43:58back off.There are 99 other women who signed this letter. They are all

1:43:58 > 1:44:02in positions of power like Catherine Deneuve.They seem to be, you know,

1:44:02 > 1:44:08they seem to be prominent people albeit porn star, they seem to be

1:44:08 > 1:44:12women who have perhaps achieved something in the workplace otherwise

1:44:12 > 1:44:17they wouldn't be silgttries to the letter. One can assume they are

1:44:17 > 1:44:21people -- signatories to the letter. One can assume they have achieved

1:44:21 > 1:44:27confidence and that is not what the Me Too thing is about. It is about

1:44:27 > 1:44:32women in equal positions who feel they have got to go along with it

1:44:32 > 1:44:36because otherwise they may lose out in their jobs or their careers.

1:44:36 > 1:44:39Charlie, are there any points you agree with in the letter?There is

1:44:39 > 1:44:44not, no. I think, I would just like to reiterate what you are saying.

1:44:44 > 1:44:49This is influential women who do not reflect, like their views do not

1:44:49 > 1:44:54reflect the view of the masses who were part of the Me Too movement.It

1:44:54 > 1:45:00is OK for them to make the points, is itThey can make it. Their

1:45:00 > 1:45:03reputation is strong. There is some women in France speaking up against

1:45:03 > 1:45:07them. There are people like myself and Rosie who are taking issue with

1:45:07 > 1:45:11the letter. It is a distraction essentially quoting Oprah, what we

1:45:11 > 1:45:16need to be foe us on right now are the women mos names we don't know.

1:45:16 > 1:45:20We need to be getting to know the names of women who are working in

1:45:20 > 1:45:27industries that aren't prominent and face sexual harassment.

1:45:27 > 1:45:31I think it is harassing to be constantly chatted up and sent

1:45:31 > 1:45:37unwanted messages, it is wrong.They disagree. However clumsily a man

1:45:37 > 1:45:42trying to seduce a woman is not a crime.It is not a crime but it's

1:45:42 > 1:45:48not nice and you should not have to put up with it.This letter is quite

1:45:48 > 1:45:54frankly bonkers. I think what it does is a massive disservice to men

1:45:54 > 1:45:59as well. I know lots of men, French men, British men, men from all over

1:45:59 > 1:46:03the world and to say men should be allowed to give into their sexual

1:46:03 > 1:46:07urges despite the fact they could be wild and aggressive is absolutely

1:46:07 > 1:46:11wrong. It takes away from the fact that women do not know or cannot

1:46:11 > 1:46:15differentiate the difference between flirting and sexual harassment. I

1:46:15 > 1:46:22think the letter if it had come at any other time would have been

1:46:22 > 1:46:25laughed out, described as bonkers. But because it's come out at this

1:46:25 > 1:46:29crucial time where we have a movement going on,, the million

1:46:29 > 1:46:35women's march all over the world, and another march coming up in a few

1:46:35 > 1:46:41weeks on the 21st of January, it is a crucial time for women who have

1:46:41 > 1:46:44suffered to come forward.I will pour Junior because I want to

1:46:44 > 1:46:52introduce Julia who signed this letter, I don't know if you heard

1:46:52 > 1:46:57our last guest say this letter is bonkers?I do not understand,

1:46:57 > 1:47:06bonkers?Mad, crazy, what are you doing?By signing that letter? I'm

1:47:06 > 1:47:15not crazy at all. I am really, I have sense, I reflect a lot to sign

1:47:15 > 1:47:21a letter because I thought it's important to know that women,

1:47:21 > 1:47:29writers, women journalists, that it's not only one way to think. All

1:47:29 > 1:47:34that campaigns, who consider that women are victims, that is real,

1:47:34 > 1:47:42that we cannot accept sexual harassment, must be punished, of

1:47:42 > 1:47:49course... I agree with that. But there is not only one way to think,

1:47:49 > 1:47:57that women are eternal victims. No. Women can fight back and I want to

1:47:57 > 1:48:04learn when women are addressed, they can fight back, we can learn that.

1:48:04 > 1:48:14Also that women and men can make, seduce and make mistakes in

1:48:14 > 1:48:19seduction.There are two women sitting next to me in the studio in

1:48:19 > 1:48:25London, there was a sharp intake of breath as you said that last bit.I

1:48:25 > 1:48:31think this is part of the French national character, that you love

1:48:31 > 1:48:37being a sexy nation and I think your use of the word puritanical is quite

1:48:37 > 1:48:41interesting, it's like, yeah, in France we wear silk stockings and

1:48:41 > 1:48:47Chanel number five and sexuality is very important in the French

1:48:47 > 1:48:55cultural message. I think this is a defence of France against a kind of,

1:48:55 > 1:49:01you know, the puritanical and the not interested in having fun

1:49:01 > 1:49:10countries like the UK and America. I think it's, you know, possibly the

1:49:10 > 1:49:14campaign, like all campaigns, it has to gain enormous amount of ground

1:49:14 > 1:49:21before it levels out and maybe there are some men who have been wrongly

1:49:21 > 1:49:25chastised, I doubt it. I don't think it makes women feel like victims or

1:49:25 > 1:49:32babies, I think it makes women feel more powerful.Yeah, I am not, I

1:49:32 > 1:49:38don't defend that the French idea of sexiness, I defend the human beings

1:49:38 > 1:49:45and I think in the UK, in America, in Algeria, when I came back, in

1:49:45 > 1:49:51France, in Belgium, we are all the same, we want peace. I am a feminist

1:49:51 > 1:50:00if feminism is a quality between men and women. I think that is possible.

1:50:00 > 1:50:02Having 100 text messages on your phone from someone sexually pursuing

1:50:02 > 1:50:07new is not equality, it is here asked and and annoying you, it's not

1:50:07 > 1:50:17equal.Sexual harassment can be, does exist, that, I am not and I

1:50:17 > 1:50:25agree with that. We can say, that is normal, yeah, men are men, no. I

1:50:25 > 1:50:34will see no. But there is also a lot of frustration in the world, in the

1:50:34 > 1:50:39men's world and in the world in general. It is frustration, it

1:50:39 > 1:50:45provokes harassment I think, and we can, we must find solutions and I

1:50:45 > 1:50:56think this campaign will make that subject...

1:50:59 > 1:51:03subject...I can see in Leeds, disagreement.I think what the

1:51:03 > 1:51:08letter does is ignore the notion of consent. So what if somebody fancies

1:51:08 > 1:51:12you, does that person have the right to pursue you relentlessly as far as

1:51:12 > 1:51:19sending text messages, forming and stalking? If you do not give to

1:51:19 > 1:51:24those advances your career could be on the line. This is not fair to

1:51:24 > 1:51:28women. This is a response to the movement, all of these women coming

1:51:28 > 1:51:34forward and talking about incidents which happening previously, what we

1:51:34 > 1:51:37are actually ignoring is the fact that women, who have actually

1:51:37 > 1:51:41suffered sexual harassment and assault and so on and who have not