0:00:06 > 0:00:07Hello.
0:00:07 > 0:00:09It's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,
0:00:09 > 0:00:11welcome to the programme
0:00:11 > 0:00:14Our top story today - Police in California have rescued 13
0:00:14 > 0:00:16brothers and sisters from a house, where some of them were
0:00:16 > 0:00:24chained to their beds.
0:00:25 > 0:00:30Here Alison hits, from 29 22-macro, just captive.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34Malnourished and filthy, it is heartbreaking. -- here are some
0:00:34 > 0:00:37kids, from the age of 29 to two.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39Their parents have been arrested and charged with torture
0:00:39 > 0:00:40and child endangerment.
0:00:40 > 0:00:47We'll bring you the full story this morning.
0:00:47 > 0:00:52How common are fake degrees? More than 3000 bogus qualifications were
0:00:52 > 0:00:56bought in Britain alone from one company in Pakistan.
0:00:56 > 0:01:00Plus this horrific experience does not define me, I am much more than
0:01:00 > 0:01:03this. The words of Olympic champion
0:01:03 > 0:01:07gymnast Simone Biles, who has revealed she was sexually abused by
0:01:07 > 0:01:10the former USA team Doctor Larry Nassar. We will get reaction from
0:01:10 > 0:01:19the gymnasts. -- from some other gymnasts.
0:01:19 > 0:01:20Hello.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11am.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Throughout the programme we'll bring you the latest breaking news
0:01:25 > 0:01:26and developing stories.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28In the next 15 minutes we're going to hear your experiences
0:01:28 > 0:01:32of the NHS during what some are calling a winter crisis.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35We had so many of you get in touch last week we wanted to air some
0:01:35 > 0:01:36more of your stories.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39Of course feel free to feed in your own expoeriences.
0:01:39 > 0:01:40Use the hashtag #VictoriaLive.
0:01:40 > 0:01:48If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55Let us know your positive and negative experiences. You can also
0:01:55 > 0:01:59get in touch by e-mail, Facebook or Whatsapp.
0:01:59 > 0:02:00Our top story today...
0:02:00 > 0:02:02Police in California have rescued 13 brothers
0:02:02 > 0:02:04and sisters from a house, where some of them
0:02:04 > 0:02:06were chained to beds.
0:02:06 > 0:02:07The alarm was raised on Sunday, when one girl escaped
0:02:07 > 0:02:08and alerted the authorities.
0:02:08 > 0:02:10Their parents have been arrested and charged with torture
0:02:10 > 0:02:11and child endangerment.
0:02:11 > 0:02:17Our North America correspondent James Cook has this report.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19They look like a big, happy family.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22The children a little pale, perhaps, but smiling.
0:02:22 > 0:02:24Photographs on Facebook show the Turpins visiting
0:02:24 > 0:02:26Disneyland and in Las Vegas, as their apparently proud parents
0:02:26 > 0:02:32renewed wedding vows.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35Now David and Louise Turpin are under arrest, charged
0:02:35 > 0:02:37with torture and child endangerment.
0:02:37 > 0:02:40Their children are in hospital.
0:02:40 > 0:02:44Our staff is used to taking care of people who are quite ill,
0:02:44 > 0:02:49they are used to compassionate care, and so we pull out all the stops,
0:02:49 > 0:02:53so to speak, to make sure that their privacy is dealt with,
0:02:53 > 0:02:56that they get the appropriate care and that they are treated
0:02:56 > 0:03:02with dignity and respect at a time when they need it the most.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05The horror on Muir Woods Road was uncovered early on Sunday
0:03:05 > 0:03:08morning when a 17-year-old girl escaped with a mobile phone
0:03:08 > 0:03:12and called the police.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15At the home, officers found 12 siblings and were shocked
0:03:15 > 0:03:19to discover that seven were adults - the oldest, 29.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22The captives were dirty and malnourished, say police,
0:03:22 > 0:03:25shackled to their beds with chains and padlocks in dark
0:03:25 > 0:03:29and foul-smelling surroundings.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32As reporters arrived at the quiet suburb east of Los Angeles,
0:03:32 > 0:03:35neighbours said they were stunned.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38They were the type that you didn't really get to know
0:03:38 > 0:03:40anything about them.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42They were very to themselves, in a sense, clan-ish,
0:03:42 > 0:03:46so they only kept to themselves.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49And the only time you would see them, you would never see anyone
0:03:49 > 0:03:53visit, you would never see anyone come outside, all you would really
0:03:53 > 0:03:57see is that they would go out and maybe make a grocery run
0:03:57 > 0:03:58and that was about it.
0:03:58 > 0:04:02There is no hint at all here of the grim conditions inside his home.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05The questions about what happened are mounting.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08Not least, how long were the siblings held captive and why.
0:04:08 > 0:04:15James Cook, BBC News, Perris, California.
0:04:15 > 0:04:17John Fenoglio is a news correspondent
0:04:17 > 0:04:20with KTLA-5 in Los Angeles.
0:04:20 > 0:04:27He told me how the alarm was raised.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31Well, this is truly an horrific child abuse investigation. What we
0:04:31 > 0:04:34know from police is that early Sunday morning a young girl called
0:04:34 > 0:04:39for help. She said she was being held captive, along with her 12
0:04:39 > 0:04:43brothers and sisters, and that some of them had been shackled to their
0:04:43 > 0:04:46beds with padlocks. Responding officers found what they
0:04:46 > 0:04:50described as a young, emaciated girl, they believed to be about ten
0:04:50 > 0:04:53years of age, but in fact she was 17 years old.
0:04:53 > 0:04:59She led police back to their home, and what officers described was a
0:04:59 > 0:05:02hellish scenario. Children chained to their beds,
0:05:02 > 0:05:06police could not give an adequate description as to why they were
0:05:06 > 0:05:08chained to their beds. They were arrested.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12The parents both arrested. The officers say what they discovered
0:05:12 > 0:05:17with several people chained to their beds in dark and foul smelling
0:05:17 > 0:05:19conditions. You say this girl appeared to be ten
0:05:19 > 0:05:25but was in fact 17, she had called for help. Had she escaped from a
0:05:25 > 0:05:28house?According to a police statement she said she was able to
0:05:28 > 0:05:34escape from the house and take a cell phone with her. That is how she
0:05:34 > 0:05:37called police and led officers to her home, that is when officers
0:05:37 > 0:05:41discovered the chilling environment. John Fenoglio. More on that story
0:05:41 > 0:05:43through the morning.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45Reeta is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary
0:05:45 > 0:05:51of the rest of the day's news.
0:05:51 > 0:05:55Ministers are trying to limit the damage caused by the collapse of the
0:05:55 > 0:05:57construction services company Carillion which went into collapse
0:05:57 > 0:06:00yesterday with debts of around £1.5 billion.
0:06:00 > 0:06:05The firm was involved in a large number of public building projects,
0:06:05 > 0:06:10including HS2, and holds cleaning and catering contracts for schools,
0:06:10 > 0:06:12hospitals and prisons. Chris Mason reports.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14One after another, they came from all corners of government.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17Are taxpayers going to suffer as a result of this?
0:06:17 > 0:06:19The march of ministers into the Cabinet Office for a Cobra
0:06:19 > 0:06:21contingency meeting spoke to the central truth
0:06:21 > 0:06:25of the collapse of Carillion, the tentacles of this failed
0:06:25 > 0:06:27business reaching to every part of the public sector,
0:06:27 > 0:06:32in every part of the UK.
0:06:32 > 0:06:38And they now have to work out what on earth to do next.
0:06:38 > 0:06:39There is no evidence of chaos.
0:06:39 > 0:06:42The government is working hard across all Whitehall departments
0:06:42 > 0:06:44to ensure the liquidation of Carillion takes place
0:06:44 > 0:06:50in an orderly manner that does not disrupt public services.
0:06:50 > 0:06:52When did the government first realise...
0:06:52 > 0:06:55Labour accused ministers of shocking negligence.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58A government representative managing the relationship between Carillion
0:06:58 > 0:07:03and the public sector was rotated off the company last summer.
0:07:03 > 0:07:07There was no blindspot, insist the Conservatives.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, in a video to supporters on social
0:07:11 > 0:07:14media, said this was a watershed moment for the outsource-first dogma
0:07:14 > 0:07:22that has fleeced the public.
0:07:25 > 0:07:26The government insisted what happened with Carillion showed
0:07:26 > 0:07:29a private business shouldering real risk, and that there
0:07:29 > 0:07:30had been no bailout.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33It is an insight into the vastly contrasting instincts of the two
0:07:33 > 0:07:35biggest parties about how so many of our public
0:07:35 > 0:07:42services are delivered.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45The four-time Olympic champion gymnast Simone Biles has said
0:07:45 > 0:07:49she was sexually abused by the USA team doctor, Larry Nassar.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52In a tweet, Simone Biles described herself as one of many survivors -
0:07:52 > 0:07:55but said she had been reluctant to speak out until now.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58Larry Nassar was jailed last month for 60 years for possessing images
0:07:58 > 0:08:00of child sexual abuse - and is awaiting sentence
0:08:00 > 0:08:08for assaulting other athletes.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18An Australian teenager has been found alive in the wreckage of his
0:08:18 > 0:08:22car after his father made an intuitive decision to search them in
0:08:22 > 0:08:26a helicopter. 17-year-old Samuel Lethbridge was trapped for many
0:08:26 > 0:08:31others. After alerting the police, his father had a helicopter when he
0:08:31 > 0:08:36recalled a similar local car accident from about five years ago.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39A BBC investigation has found around 3000 bogus qualifications were
0:08:39 > 0:08:43bought in Britain from the company in Pakistan.
0:08:43 > 0:08:49The radio programme File On 4 has said
0:08:49 > 0:08:52said that the qualifications included doctors and nurses and a
0:08:52 > 0:08:57company which trains for helicopter pilots also bought qualifications
0:08:57 > 0:08:59for some employees.
0:08:59 > 0:09:01MPs say the manufacturer Whirlpool hasn't done enough to deal
0:09:01 > 0:09:04with defective tumble dryers which have caused hundreds of fires.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06The Commons Business Committee said the response to the problem,
0:09:06 > 0:09:07discovered in 2015, had been woeful.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11Our business correspondent, Emma Simpson reports.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15A flat in a tower block in west London engulfed in flames.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18The smoke rising more than ten stories.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21The blaze itself damaging five floors.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24It started in this property, and London Fire Brigade believe
0:09:24 > 0:09:29the cause was a faulty tumble dryer made by Whirlpool.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32It has had a problem with defective and potentially dangerous
0:09:32 > 0:09:34tumble dryers since 2015, when it discovered a defect
0:09:34 > 0:09:40which could cause them to set fire.
0:09:40 > 0:09:42Today, MPs described Whirlpool's attempts to fix things
0:09:42 > 0:09:46are slow and inadequate.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48Their evidence was woeful.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51Since 2004 they admit there have been 740 fires in homes caused
0:09:51 > 0:09:55by these tumble dryers, and yet still today, in 2018,
0:09:55 > 0:09:59there are a million of these tumble dryers in peoples homes.
0:09:59 > 0:10:03They need to take much stronger action to get those
0:10:03 > 0:10:10out of people's homes.
0:10:10 > 0:10:12Her parliamentary committee has looked into the safety
0:10:12 > 0:10:13of electrical goods.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Among its recommendations, it wants Whirlpool to deal with any
0:10:16 > 0:10:19faulty machines within a fortnight of being by customers.
0:10:19 > 0:10:21All manufacturers should make risk assessments available as soon
0:10:21 > 0:10:29as defects are identified.
0:10:29 > 0:10:31Safer materials to replace plastic-backed fridge
0:10:31 > 0:10:32freezers, which appear
0:10:32 > 0:10:33to be a significant risk.
0:10:33 > 0:10:35And it wants the Government to actively explore the creation
0:10:35 > 0:10:38of a single national product safety agency to improve a system
0:10:38 > 0:10:45which the MPs claim is fragmented and under resourced.
0:10:45 > 0:10:52Whirlpool says it has helped the vast majority of customers
0:10:52 > 0:10:55who have come forward so far, and promises it will now serve
0:10:55 > 0:10:57customers' problems with faulty machines within a week.
0:10:57 > 0:10:58The Government says Britain's product safety requirements
0:10:58 > 0:11:02are among the highest in the world and it has already taken steps
0:11:02 > 0:11:09to improve the current regime.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12The controversial claim that the UK sends £350 million a week to the EU
0:11:12 > 0:11:14has been described as a "gross underestimate" by the Foreign
0:11:14 > 0:11:18Secretary, Boris Johnson.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21In an interview with the Guardian newspaper, Mr Johnson said Britain's
0:11:21 > 0:11:23contribution would rise to almost £440 million by the end of
0:11:23 > 0:11:28the post-Brexit transition period.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31Vote Leave's claim about the UK's contribution to the EU was hotly
0:11:31 > 0:11:36disputed during the EU referendum.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38The supermarket chain, Iceland, has said it will eliminate plastic
0:11:38 > 0:11:42from its own brand products within five years.
0:11:42 > 0:11:44The retailer said plastic would be replaced with paper
0:11:44 > 0:11:50which could be recycled.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52The move has been welcomed by environmental campaigners
0:11:52 > 0:11:54and comes amid growing concern over plastic pollution in
0:11:54 > 0:11:59the world's oceans.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03New footage has emerged of a car which became embedded in the first
0:12:03 > 0:12:05floor of an office block in California.
0:12:05 > 0:12:09-- can video from a bus captures the moment the car crosses its path
0:12:09 > 0:12:16before flying through the air towards the building -- dashcam
0:12:16 > 0:12:17video.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9:30am.
0:12:21 > 0:12:26Unbelievable images. Thank you. A couple of messages from you on the
0:12:26 > 0:12:29NHS, a tweaked pics of my introduction when I said some people
0:12:29 > 0:12:35are calling it a winter crisis. She says some, what planet are you on?
0:12:35 > 0:12:38In Bradford, people have been transported and fire trucks to
0:12:38 > 0:12:42hospital. Marissa says my father is in hospital, the NHS have been
0:12:42 > 0:12:48fantastic and helping him. Just a problem the Aussie flu has put the
0:12:48 > 0:12:52hospital in lockdown, we cannot even visit. Kiss, Kiss. We will speak to
0:12:52 > 0:12:56a British Australian patient in a moment about his own experiences,
0:12:56 > 0:13:01nothing to do with the Aussie flu, but his experience of the NHS. We
0:13:01 > 0:13:08have good and not so good experiences.
0:13:08 > 0:13:10Let's get some sport now with Hugh,
0:13:10 > 0:13:13who can bring us up to date with the Australian Open -
0:13:13 > 0:13:16and Jo Konta has been enjoying the heat, hasn't she?
0:13:16 > 0:13:19Not many people would enjoy the heat she has. She beat American Madison
0:13:19 > 0:13:25Brengle 6-3, 6-1, ten nudging 40 degrees in Melbourne but Konta
0:13:25 > 0:13:30called it a nice, sunny day. She grew up in Australia. She enjoys the
0:13:30 > 0:13:34heat. She reached the Australian open semifinals in 2016, the
0:13:34 > 0:13:38quarterfinals last year, both times losing to eventual champion.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42She is the ninth seed this year, under her new coach, Michael Joyce,
0:13:42 > 0:13:50she very much enjoyed herself against Madison Brengle.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52Next up is another American, Bernarda Pera, who just ranked 123
0:13:52 > 0:13:55in the world. Konta was able to focus despite a blueberry tobacco on
0:13:55 > 0:14:01a recent shopping trip! I went to the supermarket to buy
0:14:01 > 0:14:06Drew Brees, I only bought blue breeze, two permits. I left Umaga
0:14:06 > 0:14:10Benneteau blooper is there. That is $5 I will not get back, but it is
0:14:10 > 0:14:16more the betrayal of my own mind that I felt so upset about the
0:14:16 > 0:14:21blueberries, I was so upset. The first soft fruit fiasco of the
0:14:21 > 0:14:26year! Heather Watson went down to Yulia
0:14:26 > 0:14:31Putintseva from Kazakhstan but now leads 5-4 on soma -- on serve in the
0:14:31 > 0:14:34first set. That is the latest from the women's
0:14:34 > 0:14:41side of the game. Johanna Konta has just tweeted that
0:14:41 > 0:14:45she has managed to buy two permits of blueberries and bring them back
0:14:45 > 0:14:48with her. Novak Djokovic chin action, what is
0:14:48 > 0:14:52this about a stray? You would think Johanna Konta has
0:14:52 > 0:14:56the resource to get more blueberries! Djokovic is seeded 14th
0:14:56 > 0:15:00because he missed much of last year with an elbow injury. He beat Donald
0:15:00 > 0:15:03Young in straight sets in no time at all this morning. There were reports
0:15:03 > 0:15:07he held a meeting with players before the tournament to propose
0:15:07 > 0:15:11forming a new union to try to get more price money and even suggested
0:15:11 > 0:15:14boycotting the Australian Open next year to get his way.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17The prize money is in the single-digit percentage rise of the
0:15:17 > 0:15:25overall revenue of each Grand Slam, although the
0:15:27 > 0:15:29although the figures remain impressive, between 28 and £36
0:15:29 > 0:15:31million overall to the players. In Melbourne the singles winners both
0:15:31 > 0:15:36get £2.3 million. But in the NBA, it is 50% of the overall sport's
0:15:36 > 0:15:39turnover, so the players currently represented by the ATP, and Djokovic
0:15:39 > 0:15:43is the president of the players cancel, reported to want a little
0:15:43 > 0:15:48bit more. He wants more of that money to go to players outside of
0:15:48 > 0:15:52the top 50. Djokovic has responded to reports this morning following
0:15:52 > 0:15:55his game against Donald Young, he feels he has been unfairly
0:15:55 > 0:16:01portrayed. He says there has been no talk of boycotts and that the story
0:16:01 > 0:16:05has been greatly exaggerated. But with all the talk over the last five
0:16:05 > 0:16:08to ten years about the prospect of making sure there is equal price
0:16:08 > 0:16:13money between men and women in tennis, now there seems to be a
0:16:13 > 0:16:15question being floated by Novak Djokovic at the least that the
0:16:15 > 0:16:21overall money should be distributed more fairly to all players.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24This morning - how do we get to grips with the enormous pressure
0:16:24 > 0:16:28the NHS is under this winter and in years to come?
0:16:28 > 0:16:31Over the past few weeks, we've seen A&Es over-crowded,
0:16:31 > 0:16:33a lack of beds and queues of ambulances stacked up outside
0:16:33 > 0:16:35unable to hand over their patients.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38On top of that as the NHS approaches its 70th birthday -
0:16:38 > 0:16:41it's having to deal with a growing and ageing population adding more
0:16:41 > 0:16:43pressure to its services.
0:16:43 > 0:16:48After 10am, we're going to discuss different ways
0:16:48 > 0:16:52the NHS could be funded from charging for certain
0:16:52 > 0:16:57services to raising taxes to make entirely different political
0:16:57 > 0:16:59decisions, but first we want to hear about your
0:16:59 > 0:17:03experiences of the NHS.
0:17:03 > 0:17:07So many of you got in touch last week to tell us your stories -
0:17:07 > 0:17:09we wanted to try and get a snapshot of how hospitals
0:17:09 > 0:17:10are coping right now.
0:17:10 > 0:17:18Do get in touch wherever you are this morning.
0:17:19 > 0:17:24I'm going to introduce you to a one-year-old who has been sitting
0:17:24 > 0:17:31here so quietly for 15 minutes and his mum Lucy is here too. Over
0:17:31 > 0:17:35Christmas the baby had a chest infection and had to wait nine hours
0:17:35 > 0:17:39for a bed and Lucy a member of the Labour Party. Dr John Robinson is
0:17:39 > 0:17:46with us. His wife is being treated for sepsis in hospital and is in a
0:17:46 > 0:17:51critical state. Jordan Berry is here. He sliced the top off his
0:17:51 > 0:17:56finger and needed an operation. Ruth just had a knee operation postponed.
0:17:56 > 0:18:02Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Right, can I give him
0:18:02 > 0:18:08an I plad. Does that make no difference?It might help.That
0:18:08 > 0:18:14tells you about my parenting! What's that?
0:18:14 > 0:18:22Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. John, how is Mavis?She
0:18:22 > 0:18:28is more stable than she was. She has been through a traumatic time with
0:18:28 > 0:18:34sepsis which turned into pneumonia and she got a blood clot in her
0:18:34 > 0:18:38right arm, but as we speak, the infection is coming under some sort
0:18:38 > 0:18:42of control, but it there has been setbacks with that and the blood
0:18:42 > 0:18:46clot drugs have been given so hopefully that will disperse the
0:18:46 > 0:18:52blood clot in the right arm.You feel that her condition has been
0:18:52 > 0:18:55exacerbated by the way her case has been dealt with. Let's begin with
0:18:55 > 0:18:59the arrival of the ambulance on 2nd January. How long did it take?Well,
0:18:59 > 0:19:04the doctor came to visit at 12 o'clock. She booked the ambulance
0:19:04 > 0:19:08for two having seen some other important patients she had to see.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12The ambulance never came until nine o'clock so we waited seven hours and
0:19:12 > 0:19:16that was despite ringing up on several occasions to be told after
0:19:16 > 0:19:20four hours, you know, it should be there. You should be getting near
0:19:20 > 0:19:24the top of the list. In fact, there is no list. Other people come up,
0:19:24 > 0:19:27you just drop down.And when she was taken to hospital, did she get a
0:19:27 > 0:19:31bed?Well, she didn't. We were assured by the GP that she would
0:19:31 > 0:19:35have a bed waiting for her, that just didn't materialise at all.When
0:19:35 > 0:19:40did she get a bed?She got a bed at four o'clock the next day, so that
0:19:40 > 0:19:44was after 18 hours in A&E.Right. Now, could you see that staff were
0:19:44 > 0:19:49overstretched at that time?I think so, yeah. They were absolutely
0:19:49 > 0:19:55flooded with patients in the major incident unit. And the normal A&E
0:19:55 > 0:19:59was seething. There was hundreds of people in there.Hill loining
0:19:59 > 0:20:03don't's Hospital NHS Trust told us, "All our staff are working flat-out
0:20:03 > 0:20:09to minimise the time patients wait to be seen. The unprecedented demand
0:20:09 > 0:20:13we have experienced in recent weeks left us operating at our full bed
0:20:13 > 0:20:17capacity resulting in delays to admissions and we deeply regret that
0:20:17 > 0:20:21patients are having to wait." Do you accept that?Well, I accept that it
0:20:21 > 0:20:27is not down, you know, the hospital is just overload. There have been so
0:20:27 > 0:20:31many cuts, having spoken to various people in general practice, there
0:20:31 > 0:20:34have been cuts across the whole service, the bed-blocking that's
0:20:34 > 0:20:38taking place because the people cannot come out of the wards, where
0:20:38 > 0:20:41my wife has been admitted to, because...It is really interesting
0:20:41 > 0:20:47you say that because as you know, NHS budgets in England have been
0:20:47 > 0:20:50ring-fenced since 2010, but there has been cuts to social care which
0:20:50 > 0:20:53is elderly people in particular going back into the community, £6
0:20:53 > 0:20:57billion worth of cuts in that area and it is interesting that you say
0:20:57 > 0:21:01they were telling you it is because of that bed-blocking that it is
0:21:01 > 0:21:04really exacerbating the problem? Yes. Yes. We are in the situation
0:21:04 > 0:21:10where I can see in the ward that my wife is in, with 60 people, they are
0:21:10 > 0:21:14aged people. They are clearly going to have a hell of a job releasing
0:21:14 > 0:21:21the beds. When my wife went to A&E that day, there were 20 beds, people
0:21:21 > 0:21:24waiting for 20 beds were required and some people waited up to 22
0:21:24 > 0:21:29hours.Gosh.For a bed.OK. Let me bring in Jordan. Hi.Hi.We can see
0:21:29 > 0:21:33you hurt your finger. It was more than that, you actually sliced the
0:21:33 > 0:21:40top of it, because you dropped a 34 kilogramme dumbbell on it Ouch.It
0:21:40 > 0:21:47hurt a lot.You went to hospital in a cab because you waited over an
0:21:47 > 0:21:51hour for an ambulance?Around about an hour. It was a busy festive
0:21:51 > 0:21:55period and you know I knew I could make my way myself to the hospital.
0:21:55 > 0:22:00So...When you got there, how were you treated?I was treated
0:22:00 > 0:22:04fantastically, as soon as I got there, I could see it was brimming
0:22:04 > 0:22:08with people. Being the festive period, but they could see that I
0:22:08 > 0:22:12was in acute, severe pain and they brought me into a ward straightaway,
0:22:12 > 0:22:18got me the great care that I needed. I had three staff there in with me,
0:22:18 > 0:22:22caring for me, and I thought that they were very amicable and very
0:22:22 > 0:22:27understanding, very caring. Ultimately a really positive
0:22:27 > 0:22:30experienceOh yeah, world-class experience. Very, very happy with
0:22:30 > 0:22:37it.Do you think that when people are critical or feel that the NHS
0:22:37 > 0:22:42deserves some criticism or the system or whatever bit of the NHS
0:22:42 > 0:22:46they want to criticise, they shouldn't voice that?I think that
0:22:46 > 0:22:51it is OK to voice their experiences. However, I think that it's very good
0:22:51 > 0:22:56to have, you know, a bird's eye view on things. I think that it's a bit
0:22:56 > 0:23:01too much kind of generalise and state that the NHS is in a crisis
0:23:01 > 0:23:07because if you look recently like, you know, with the high waits for
0:23:07 > 0:23:11ambulance and ambulances because there has been the uncertainty
0:23:11 > 0:23:17thrown up over Brexit, you know, with EU employees leaving the
0:23:17 > 0:23:25Ambulance Service. Until all of that is resolved, will we get raet
0:23:25 > 0:23:27concrete answers on the Ambulance Service. So I think it is important
0:23:27 > 0:23:33to wait until that's all resolved and not only that, we've had the flu
0:23:33 > 0:23:38crisis as well with the Australian flu coming on as well and because it
0:23:38 > 0:23:41is winter and there is going to be a higher amount of people within the
0:23:41 > 0:23:44hospital, we need to take that into view as to why that would increase
0:23:44 > 0:23:51the amount of people in hospitals at this current time.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54Lucy, Remis was admitted a week before Christmas. How was he treated
0:23:54 > 0:23:58and cared for?The treatment was amazing. It was just the wait time
0:23:58 > 0:24:01for him to get a bed that was really difficult because we were receiving
0:24:01 > 0:24:05treatment in the waiting room prior to getting the bed, but I couldn't
0:24:05 > 0:24:08fault the staff at all. You could see the strain they were under.How
0:24:08 > 0:24:13long did it take?We got admitted to hospital, well we got referred by
0:24:13 > 0:24:17the GP, we got to hospital at two o'clock and we didn't get a bed
0:24:17 > 0:24:21until about half past nine at night and throughout that time he was
0:24:21 > 0:24:25receiving treatment in the waiting room in, in a public waiting room.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28Where there other patients being treated in the waiting room at the
0:24:28 > 0:24:32same time?Assessments, to see if they were going to be admitted or to
0:24:32 > 0:24:36go home. Yeah, lots of other patients.Clearly, you saw staff
0:24:36 > 0:24:40under pressure.Yeah.Did you ever feel it affected the way they did
0:24:40 > 0:24:44their job?No, I think they remained professional throughout. There is no
0:24:44 > 0:24:50doubt in my mind.How is he now? He's so much better now. He's poorly
0:24:50 > 0:24:54on and off since September, but with new medication that he has had, well
0:24:54 > 0:25:02you can see he is fine now.And your hospital in Cornwall say they are
0:25:02 > 0:25:06sorry for any delay and subsequent admissions to a hospital ward, our
0:25:06 > 0:25:10staff have been making heroic efforts to meet the demand for our
0:25:10 > 0:25:16services and to provide good, safe care. Let me bring in Ruth who is in
0:25:16 > 0:25:23Staffordshire, hello Ruth, you run a printing business and you have
0:25:23 > 0:25:26Rheumatoid Arthritis, you have had it since you were a child and you
0:25:26 > 0:25:28were due to have a knee operation and what happened to the operation?
0:25:28 > 0:25:31Well, it was cancelled just yesterday morning actually. I had
0:25:31 > 0:25:34assumed when I heard the news about January operations being cancelled
0:25:34 > 0:25:38that maybe, you know, I would be one of them, but I didn't hear, you know
0:25:38 > 0:25:42from the hospital until yesterday. And the operation, I think, was due
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Thursday, wasn't it?Yes.So news of the cancellation, what impact does
0:25:46 > 0:25:50that have on you and you trying to go about your daily life, which
0:25:50 > 0:25:54involves two children and running your own business?Well, it is
0:25:54 > 0:25:58difficult for me because partly I have to come off some of my
0:25:58 > 0:26:03medicines in order to be able to have the operation because I have an
0:26:03 > 0:26:06over active immune system, I have to be on immune suppressing drugs and
0:26:06 > 0:26:09some have to be stopped for weeks before the operation. So I put
0:26:09 > 0:26:16myself into quite a flair up of the disease by coming off the meds. So
0:26:16 > 0:26:20it's and also have lined up a lot of help and support for me whilst I was
0:26:20 > 0:26:24in hospital to look after my children and pick them up from
0:26:24 > 0:26:29school and look after my dog and all that sort of thing. Yeah, it is
0:26:29 > 0:26:37disruptive, but it is disappointing. The hospital says they would like to
0:26:37 > 0:26:41alpoll jaous, but say that all operations will resume at the
0:26:41 > 0:26:45beginning of February which...I mean I just want to say, I don't
0:26:45 > 0:26:50think it is the hospital's fault at all. They made this clear they were
0:26:50 > 0:26:54under orders and they were following the orders that they had been given.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57So, you know, the surgeon and the nurses have been wonderful to me
0:26:57 > 0:27:06there.I'm going to try and read some messages.
0:27:06 > 0:27:14You can have a look as well Remis. There are various experiences. Now
0:27:14 > 0:27:20it has frozen.I'm sorry.It is not your fault. The computer says no. I
0:27:20 > 0:27:23will read them later. Thank you very much all of tu for
0:27:23 > 0:27:36coming on the programme. Thank you, Remis. Thank you very much.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38Remis. Thank you very much. After 10am, we are going to talk about
0:27:38 > 0:27:42different funding suggestions for the NHS. We heard from a
0:27:42 > 0:27:46Conservative MP that might include re-branding and redirecting national
0:27:46 > 0:27:51insurance so it becomes national health insurance. It might be down
0:27:51 > 0:27:54to different political decisions. It might be about charging for certain
0:27:54 > 0:27:59services. If you have views on that, if you have proposals, suggestions,
0:27:59 > 0:28:03let me know because we're going to talk about other solutions after
0:28:03 > 0:28:0810am when it comes to the funding crisis.
0:28:08 > 0:28:11An alleged victim of the football coach
0:28:11 > 0:28:13Barry Bennell has told a court that he was repeatedly abused
0:28:13 > 0:28:16on visits to Butlins in North Wales and on trips to Spain.
0:28:16 > 0:28:18Our reporter Jon Donnison has been following the trial
0:28:18 > 0:28:23at Liverpool Crown Court.
0:28:23 > 0:28:27Fill us in John from yesterday.This is the trial of 64-year-old Barry
0:28:27 > 0:28:33Bennell. He is known as Richard Jones. We've got pictures of him,
0:28:33 > 0:28:36drawings appearing in Liverpool Crown Court by videolink because of
0:28:36 > 0:28:40ill-health yesterday. The court heard from an alleged victim who
0:28:40 > 0:28:44said he was abused after being spotted playing for alschool
0:28:44 > 0:28:49football team. Mr Bennell denies four counts of bug Riaz the offence
0:28:49 > 0:28:53was then called against this man who would have been a teenager at the
0:28:53 > 0:28:57time of the alleged abuse. Yesterday, the man gave evidence
0:28:57 > 0:29:02anonymously from behind a screen. He was asked about the final time he
0:29:02 > 0:29:06was allegedly abused. He said he felt the lowest I have ever felt in
0:29:06 > 0:29:12my life. I was a biggish, strongish 14-year-old lad and I felt like I
0:29:12 > 0:29:15had been raped. And there were allegations Barry
0:29:15 > 0:29:21Bennell then contact that had player years later?Yes, this was in Twinl.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25He says Mr Bennell sent him a Facebook message or he believes he
0:29:25 > 0:29:31did, although using an account under a different name. He TVed that the
0:29:31 > 0:29:35message said, "Good to see you have a family and are enjoying life. I
0:29:35 > 0:29:40got cancer a while back and it left me in a mess. Pay back I hear you're
0:29:40 > 0:29:44saying, well, I understand that if you could find time, could you drop
0:29:44 > 0:29:48me a line saying how your life is going?" The complainant said he
0:29:48 > 0:29:52didn't reply to that message of the he was then asked under
0:29:52 > 0:29:56cross-examination about £2,000 in compensation, he was awarded after
0:29:56 > 0:30:03Mr Bennell pleaded guilty to offences in 1998. Asked if he felt
0:30:03 > 0:30:09aggrieved about that amount, he said I have felt aggrieved for years.
0:30:09 > 0:30:14£2,000, it makes no difference. The court heard the same man-made a
0:30:14 > 0:30:19statement in 1994 in which he accused Mr Bennell of attempted
0:30:19 > 0:30:25buggery. He was asked why he did not allege the more serious offence of
0:30:25 > 0:30:28buggery, he said, "I wasn't strong enough and I wasn't brave enough."
0:30:28 > 0:30:33Mr Bennell is on trial for a total of 48 charges against 11 boys and he
0:30:33 > 0:30:37denies the charges and the trial continues.Thank you very much,
0:30:37 > 0:30:41John, we will bring you up-to-date with the trial every morning at
0:30:41 > 0:30:44around this time on this programme.
0:30:44 > 0:30:45Still to come...
0:30:45 > 0:30:48A BBC investigation has found a multi million pound diploma mill
0:30:48 > 0:30:50in Pakistan which is churning out fake degrees.
0:30:50 > 0:30:52UK nations are buying them up in their thousands,
0:30:52 > 0:30:54We speak to someone whose job
0:30:54 > 0:30:57is to check if degrees are genuine or not.
0:30:57 > 0:31:00-- UK nationals are buying them up in their thousands.
0:31:00 > 0:31:02Four times Olympic champion - Simone Biles has revealed
0:31:02 > 0:31:04that she was sexually abused by Larry Nassar the gymnastics
0:31:04 > 0:31:05doctor for Team USA.
0:31:05 > 0:31:13We'll be talking to a former gymnast later in the programme.
0:31:17 > 0:31:19Time for the latest news.
0:31:19 > 0:31:20Here's Reeta.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22Thirteen brothers and sisters between the ages of two
0:31:22 > 0:31:25and 29 have been discovered in a malnourished and dirty state
0:31:25 > 0:31:26at their home in California.
0:31:26 > 0:31:28Their parents have been charged with torture
0:31:28 > 0:31:30and child endangerment.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33Some of the children had been chained to their beds.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35The alarm was raised on Sunday, when one girl escaped
0:31:35 > 0:31:39and alerted the authorities.
0:31:39 > 0:31:40The four-time Olympic champion gymnast Simone Biles
0:31:40 > 0:31:43has said she was sexually abused by the USA team
0:31:43 > 0:31:46doctor, Larry Nassar.
0:31:46 > 0:31:48In a tweet, Simone Biles described herself
0:31:48 > 0:31:51as one of many survivors - but said she had been reluctant
0:31:51 > 0:31:54to speak out until now.
0:31:54 > 0:31:56Larry Nassar was jailed last month for 60-years for possessing images
0:31:56 > 0:31:59of child sexual abuse - and is awaiting sentence
0:31:59 > 0:32:03for assaulting other athletes.
0:32:03 > 0:32:05The future of some major construction projects and hundreds
0:32:05 > 0:32:08of public service contracts hang in the balance this
0:32:08 > 0:32:14morning after the collapse of Carillion.
0:32:14 > 0:32:16Britain's second largest construction firm -
0:32:16 > 0:32:17which also holds cleaning
0:32:17 > 0:32:19and catering contracts for schools, hospitals and prisons -
0:32:19 > 0:32:21went into liquidation yesterday with debts of around
0:32:21 > 0:32:26£1.5 billion.
0:32:26 > 0:32:29MPs say the manufacturer Whirlpool hasn't done enough to deal
0:32:29 > 0:32:31with defective tumble dryers which have caused hundreds of fires.
0:32:31 > 0:32:33The Commons Business Committee said the response to the problem,
0:32:33 > 0:32:36discovered in 2015, had been woeful.
0:32:36 > 0:32:38It also said that it was "unacceptable" that more
0:32:38 > 0:32:40than one million potentially dangerous dryers were still being
0:32:40 > 0:32:42used in people's homes.
0:32:42 > 0:32:49The company insists its repair campaign has been successful.
0:32:49 > 0:32:57That's a summary of the latest BBC News.
0:32:57 > 0:33:02News just in, the latest inflation figures, the rate of Consumer Prices
0:33:02 > 0:33:08Index inflation fell to 3% in December, from 3.1% in November.
0:33:08 > 0:33:12That just in from the Office of National Statistics, inflation has
0:33:12 > 0:33:17fallen slightly from 3% of... Sorry, from 3.1% in November to 3% in
0:33:17 > 0:33:23December. I now have some of your comments
0:33:23 > 0:33:28about the situation in the NHS. Lots of you say there are times in many
0:33:28 > 0:33:33people in A&E that only to be there. Hallett says I have been to St
0:33:33 > 0:33:38George's Hospital in tooting, that A&E twice in the last three months.
0:33:38 > 0:33:42I was triage, blood tested and scanned within 2.25 hours. I got the
0:33:42 > 0:33:45impression that half the patients there did not need to be there.
0:33:45 > 0:33:50Katy Dunne to it as it is time the many goods A&E because they can't
0:33:50 > 0:33:53get GP appointments. James says granddaughter broke her
0:33:53 > 0:33:56arm over Christmas. She got fast and first class treatment from the
0:33:56 > 0:33:59hospital. But whilst on the waiting area a man
0:33:59 > 0:34:03and his partner were swearing at staff because others were seen
0:34:03 > 0:34:05before him. He was boasting how he had beaten a
0:34:05 > 0:34:09guide the night before and had cuts to his knuckles as a result.
0:34:09 > 0:34:11Most people would have sold their hands and anti-septic and
0:34:11 > 0:34:17anti-septic address this at home. Some doctors have got in touch.
0:34:17 > 0:34:21Aussie flu is causing havoc with primary care services in hospital
0:34:21 > 0:34:26attendances, says Doctor Singh. It is not too later the flu jab, we're
0:34:26 > 0:34:30running special flu vaccination clinics, please remind people.
0:34:30 > 0:34:34Dan says I am a doctor in the NHS, please correct anyone who says it is
0:34:34 > 0:34:39free. It is not. The paper it through taxation, which is the most
0:34:39 > 0:34:41efficient way of funding health care.
0:34:41 > 0:34:45The problem is not how we are funding the NHS, but how much we
0:34:45 > 0:34:50have cut, 14,000 beds in 2010. We will talk about different ways of
0:34:50 > 0:34:55funding the NHS in a sustainable way, that is the issue. After 10am,
0:34:55 > 0:34:56your proposals are very welcome.
0:34:56 > 0:34:57Now the sport.
0:34:57 > 0:35:00Johanna Konta is through to the second round of the Australian Open.
0:35:00 > 0:35:03She's the ninth seed in Melbourne this year and beat Madison Brengle
0:35:03 > 0:35:11in straight sets in temperatures approaching 40 degrees.
0:35:13 > 0:35:16She had no problems with that, having grown up in Australia.
0:35:16 > 0:35:17A similar story for Novak Djokovic.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19He had an easy win over Donald Young.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22Djokovic is only seeded 14th in Melbourne after missing
0:35:22 > 0:35:24the second half of last year with an elbow injury.
0:35:24 > 0:35:26Manchester United have reduced Manchester City's lead at the top
0:35:26 > 0:35:31of the Premier League to 12 points after beating Stoke last night.
0:35:31 > 0:35:34They won 3-0 at Old Trafford with new Stoke boss Paul Lambert
0:35:34 > 0:35:37watching from the stands.
0:35:37 > 0:35:44Anthony Martial micro-2-macro others scored. -- Anthony Martial and two
0:35:44 > 0:35:45others scored.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48United could have a major signing in the next few days too.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50Manchester City have ended their interest in Alexis Sanchez.
0:35:50 > 0:35:53So United and now we understand Chelsea too are battling to sign
0:35:53 > 0:35:59the Chilean from Arsenal.
0:35:59 > 0:36:01Much more coming up just after 10am.
0:36:01 > 0:36:03Thousands of UK nationals have bought fake degrees
0:36:03 > 0:36:06from a multi-million pound "diploma mill" in Pakistan, a BBC
0:36:06 > 0:36:11investigation has found.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13Buyers include NHS consultants, nurses and a large
0:36:13 > 0:36:14defence contractor.
0:36:14 > 0:36:21One British buyer spent almost £500,000 on bogus documents.
0:36:21 > 0:36:24The claims are being made in BBC Radio 4's File
0:36:24 > 0:36:30on four programme - reporter Simon Cox can tell us more.
0:36:30 > 0:36:37Tell us what you have discovered. 3000 fake degrees had been bought by
0:36:37 > 0:36:42people in Britain. They came from a company called Exact, based in
0:36:42 > 0:36:46Pakistan. They are not just fluffing up people see these, they are
0:36:46 > 0:36:50doctors working in the NHS, nurses, lawyers, psychologists. The
0:36:50 > 0:36:55interesting thing is knowing did they use them to get their job? They
0:36:55 > 0:36:59are lots of their professional profiles, if they use them to get
0:36:59 > 0:37:02their job they could be breaking the law and they could be prosecuted for
0:37:02 > 0:37:07fraud. You manage to buy one?I went
0:37:07 > 0:37:10online, there are hundreds of these. They look pretty legitimate when you
0:37:10 > 0:37:19at them, they tend to claim they are US universities. You go online, I
0:37:19 > 0:37:23was going for a degree in business management, which I know nothing
0:37:23 > 0:37:28about and in ten minutes I could have bought it for 2500. I could
0:37:28 > 0:37:32have got a Masters or PhD if I wanted. They even show you what the
0:37:32 > 0:37:36degree would look like when they send it to you.I have a load
0:37:36 > 0:37:40printed out. This is Williamsburg University, I don't know if you can
0:37:40 > 0:37:45see. The Board of Trustees, accordance with the recommendation
0:37:45 > 0:37:50of the faculty coming confers upon, insert your own name, the degree,
0:37:50 > 0:37:54bachelor of laws, upper second class. I'm a bit of rubbishy paper
0:37:54 > 0:37:58with the rubbish printed it does not look amazing, but you could make it
0:37:58 > 0:38:03look amazing. -- on a bit of rubbishy paper.They will send you
0:38:03 > 0:38:07extra courses, they will show you the courses you are meant to have
0:38:07 > 0:38:13taken. They were very blatant about it.
0:38:14 > 0:38:17it. Some people got back in touch and said you are not a university,
0:38:17 > 0:38:22you do not exist, and they tried to bluff it. They said they were in
0:38:22 > 0:38:26America, one said Washington, the other California. Even when you
0:38:26 > 0:38:31confront them they try to maintain this fiction that they are a real
0:38:31 > 0:38:38university.One company, having sold a fraudulent degree, tried to
0:38:38 > 0:38:44blackmail the buyer of aforementioned fake degree?This
0:38:44 > 0:38:48company, Exact, sold over 200,000 of these globally. They thought they
0:38:48 > 0:38:52had a great database of people who they thought they could blackmail.
0:38:52 > 0:38:57They did this with lots of people. We looked at one case of a guy
0:38:57 > 0:39:02called Cecil Horner who works in Saudi Arabia for 20 years, died in
0:39:02 > 0:39:072015, we spoke to his son Malcolm. He was going to his De Plus my
0:39:07 > 0:39:10papers, found his dad had bought some fake degrees but also he had
0:39:10 > 0:39:18been blackmailed -- he went through his dad plus my papers.
0:39:18 > 0:39:22It became clear it was just acquiring qualifications, it was
0:39:22 > 0:39:31then chasing him up, having done that, to essentially blackmail him,
0:39:31 > 0:39:35saying you have got degrees that are not official, we will report you to
0:39:35 > 0:39:38the Foreign Office, they will kick you out of the country, you will
0:39:38 > 0:39:45lose your job, you are not qualified to your job. And that... And that
0:39:45 > 0:39:50clearly gotten scared and very wound up.
0:39:50 > 0:39:54What is interesting about his case, he is the person that you mention,
0:39:54 > 0:40:00almost £500,000. One person per payment, then he paid almost
0:40:00 > 0:40:06£500,000 to this company or the four years. -- a £1000 payment, then he
0:40:06 > 0:40:10paid almost £500,000 to this company.And that programme is on at
0:40:10 > 0:40:15APM tonight. -- at 8pm.
0:40:15 > 0:40:17We can speak now to Jayne Rowley, who is from Higher Education
0:40:17 > 0:40:19Degree Datacheck - the UK organisation which checks
0:40:19 > 0:40:21whether degrees are valid or not.
0:40:21 > 0:40:23And to David d'Souza from the Chartered Institute
0:40:23 > 0:40:25of Personnel and Development, which is the professional body
0:40:25 > 0:40:27for people working in HR for employers across the UK.
0:40:27 > 0:40:32Thank you both for joining us. Jayne, how do you react to what
0:40:32 > 0:40:36Simon Cox has discovered?I am not shocked at all. We have been aware
0:40:36 > 0:40:43of the problem for quite some time. I am saddened that people are being
0:40:43 > 0:40:45blackmailed, there are innocent victims, but it stems from the fact
0:40:45 > 0:40:50that employees do not make proper checks, so people can get away with
0:40:50 > 0:40:53fake certificates, fake universities thrive.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57Let me bring in David, from the chartered Institute of personnel and
0:40:57 > 0:41:02development. Employers do not make proper checks?Large-scale employers
0:41:02 > 0:41:08like the NHS make proper checks. Tend toI cannot vouch for every
0:41:08 > 0:41:18employer but I think the NHS will make scrupulous checks. There
0:41:18 > 0:41:19make scrupulous checks. There is a difference between employers
0:41:19 > 0:41:21expressing a preference for a degree and not checking, and professions
0:41:21 > 0:41:23that really require professional qualifications. They will be
0:41:23 > 0:41:29thoroughly checked.In terms of your organisation, Jayne, how do you help
0:41:29 > 0:41:33employers spot potential fake qualifications on job applications?
0:41:33 > 0:41:37Sometimes it is very difficult. You can look out for use of language,
0:41:37 > 0:41:42spelling and grammar, but the only certain way to Chequers to contact
0:41:42 > 0:41:45the universities directly, they have the qualifications in their
0:41:45 > 0:41:52database. That can be done quickly easily directly with the
0:41:52 > 0:41:55universities, or through Head. Some of the fake certificates look really
0:41:55 > 0:42:04good and lots of employers are fools.What is your advice? About--
0:42:04 > 0:42:09lots of employers are fooled.They need to check qualifications, and
0:42:09 > 0:42:12throughout the interview process they need to check they are doing
0:42:12 > 0:42:16things the relief. It should never be a surprise that somebody does not
0:42:16 > 0:42:19have a qualification. They could really scrutinise whether people
0:42:19 > 0:42:23actually needs a degree to do the job. One of the things we are
0:42:23 > 0:42:25proliferating in the UK is that people put down we would like people
0:42:25 > 0:42:30to have a degree as a preference, which makes it harder for people to
0:42:30 > 0:42:35move and encourages people to go to fake universities.Does it? Why?
0:42:35 > 0:42:40Just because an employer requires something does not mean you have to
0:42:40 > 0:42:44life.But if your job does not require degree standard
0:42:44 > 0:42:47qualifications and you put it anyway, it is frustrating to
0:42:47 > 0:42:51candidates to feel locked out of an opportunity that they have the
0:42:51 > 0:42:54experience to deliver, they might have an apprenticeship in or a
0:42:54 > 0:42:58suitable background. So do you have some sympathy with
0:42:58 > 0:43:01applicants who buy fake degrees because a job description requires
0:43:01 > 0:43:06that?I don't think I have sympathy, you should never lie in those
0:43:06 > 0:43:09circumstances, but it is a tough economy and employers are not
0:43:09 > 0:43:14thinking about how they can be more inclusive. It invites people to take
0:43:14 > 0:43:18short cuts.Is that a fair point, Jayne, people are encouraged to take
0:43:18 > 0:43:25short cuts because employers do not think very hard about whether a job
0:43:25 > 0:43:28requires a degree?It can be difficult when people feel they have
0:43:28 > 0:43:32the skills, but at the point which you put something down on a CV or
0:43:32 > 0:43:36job application which is not true, an employer has to question himself
0:43:36 > 0:43:41about that person's integrity. Do you want somebody in your
0:43:41 > 0:43:45organisation who has lied to get in? Employers need to think about the
0:43:45 > 0:43:49skill sets required and the qualifications, but applicants
0:43:49 > 0:43:58should not lie about. Thank you, Jayne and David.
0:43:59 > 0:44:01File on 4: Degrees of Deception is on BBC
0:44:01 > 0:44:05Radio 4 tonight at 8pm
0:44:05 > 0:44:08Cunningham, the TUC is calling on the Government to come up with a
0:44:08 > 0:44:20task force the collapse of Carillion. -- coming up, the TUC is.
0:44:20 > 0:44:22Four-time Olympic champion Simone Biles says she was sexually
0:44:22 > 0:44:27abused by former Team USA gymnastics sports doctor Larry Nassar.
0:44:27 > 0:44:32Many of you will remember Simone Biles from the Rio Olympics -
0:44:32 > 0:44:35she wowed everyone with her amazing performances and was dubbed
0:44:35 > 0:44:37"untouchable" and the "greatest gymnast anyone had ever seen".
0:44:37 > 0:44:40Now in an emotional statement she says that she too was one
0:44:40 > 0:44:43of those abused by Nassar but that she would not let him
0:44:43 > 0:44:44steal her "love" and joy".
0:44:44 > 0:44:46Nassar was jailed for 60 years for possessing child sex
0:44:46 > 0:44:52abuse images and has also admitted assaulting gymnasts.
0:44:52 > 0:44:59This is Simone Biles' full statement:
0:45:00 > 0:45:05Most of you know me as a happy, giggly and energetic girl, but
0:45:05 > 0:45:09lately I have felt a bit broken, and the more I try to shut off the voice
0:45:09 > 0:45:14in my head, the loaded screens. I am not afraid to tell my story any
0:45:14 > 0:45:18more. I too and one of the many survivors
0:45:18 > 0:45:23is that was sexually abuse by Larry Nassar. Please believe me when I say
0:45:23 > 0:45:27it was a lot harder to first speak those words out loud than it is now
0:45:27 > 0:45:31to put them on paper. There are many reasons that I have been reluctant
0:45:31 > 0:45:39to share my story, but I now know it is not my fault. It is not normal to
0:45:39 > 0:45:43receive any type of treatment from a trusted team physician and refer to
0:45:43 > 0:45:50it horrifyingly as the special treatment. This behaviour is
0:45:50 > 0:45:54completely unacceptable, disgusting and abusive. Especially coming from
0:45:54 > 0:46:00someone whom I was told to trust. For too long I have asked myself,
0:46:00 > 0:46:06was I too naive, wasn't my fault? I now know the answer to those
0:46:06 > 0:46:12questions. No. No, it was not my fault. No, I will not and should not
0:46:12 > 0:46:17carry the guilt belongs to Larry Nassar, USA G and others. It is
0:46:17 > 0:46:25impossible for me... It is impossibly difficult to relive these
0:46:25 > 0:46:28experience and it breaks my heart more to think that as I worked
0:46:28 > 0:46:33towards my G Mosse working towards Tokyo 2020, I will have to return to
0:46:33 > 0:46:36the same training of facility where it abused.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40After hearing the break stories of my friends and other survivors, I
0:46:40 > 0:46:45know that this horrific experience does not define me. I am much more
0:46:45 > 0:46:52than this. I am unique, smart, talented, motivated and passionate.
0:46:52 > 0:46:56I have promised myself that my story will be much greater than this, and
0:46:56 > 0:47:00I promise all of you that I will never give up. I will compete with
0:47:00 > 0:47:06all of my heart and soul every time I step into the gym. I love this
0:47:06 > 0:47:11board too much and I have never been a quitter. I won't let one man and
0:47:11 > 0:47:18the others that enabled him to steal my love and joy. We need to know why
0:47:18 > 0:47:23this was able to take place for so long and to so many of us. We need
0:47:23 > 0:47:28to make sure something like this never happens again. As I continue
0:47:28 > 0:47:34to work through the pain, I kindly ask everyone to respect my privacy.
0:47:34 > 0:47:38This is a process, and one that I need more time to work through.
0:47:38 > 0:47:41Kiss, hug, Simone Biles.
0:47:42 > 0:47:46Larry Nassar was involved with the US gymnastics programme
0:47:46 > 0:47:48from the 1980s until July 2015, when the sport's national
0:47:48 > 0:47:49governing body sacked him.
0:47:49 > 0:47:54As well as Simone Biles, three other former US
0:47:54 > 0:47:57Olympians have accused him of sexual abuse under the guise
0:47:57 > 0:48:01of medical treatment, and more than 130 women have
0:48:01 > 0:48:05filed civil lawsuits against him alleging abuse.
0:48:05 > 0:48:07One of those Olympic gymnasts is Aly Raisman, who spoke
0:48:07 > 0:48:11about the abuse to American TV.
0:48:11 > 0:48:15Why are we looking at why didn't the girls speak up? Why not look at what
0:48:15 > 0:48:21about the culture? What did US gymnastics do and Larry Nassar do to
0:48:21 > 0:48:24manipulate these girls so much that they are so afraid to speak up?
0:48:24 > 0:48:29You're angry?I am angry. I'm really upset because it has been, I dare a
0:48:29 > 0:48:33lot, you know, when I see these young girls that come up to me and
0:48:33 > 0:48:38they ask for pictures or autographs or whatever it is, every time I look
0:48:38 > 0:48:42at them, every time I see them smiling, I just think, I just want
0:48:42 > 0:48:48to create change so that they never ever have to go that.
0:48:48 > 0:48:51We can speak now to Craig Heap - a former Commonwealth Games Gold
0:48:51 > 0:48:53medal winning gymnast, who also went to Sydney Olympics
0:48:53 > 0:48:55and has gone on to coach and commentate.
0:48:55 > 0:48:57He's also just about to set up own gym.
0:48:57 > 0:49:02And to Martha Kelner, a journalist, who's investigated
0:49:02 > 0:49:04a British gymnastics coach over claims of child neglect and physical
0:49:04 > 0:49:07and emotional abuse.
0:49:07 > 0:49:12Thank you for talking to us. Craig Heap, how do you react to what
0:49:12 > 0:49:16Simone Biles has told the world? Well, I've just listened to the
0:49:16 > 0:49:20statement again and I just feel physically sick to believe that, you
0:49:20 > 0:49:26know, something like this system of abuse has gone on for so long and no
0:49:26 > 0:49:31action has been taken and it does, it sends a shiver down your spine. I
0:49:31 > 0:49:35certainly think in about the new business I'm going into, hopefully
0:49:35 > 0:49:40set up a new gymnastic academy, it is a beautiful sport which has been
0:49:40 > 0:49:45tarnished by the actions, not only by Larry Nassar, but it seems like a
0:49:45 > 0:49:50host of people that have covered it up and it's a time now where action
0:49:50 > 0:49:55needs to be taken. There is questions that need to be answered
0:49:55 > 0:50:02and people need to be punished for what's gone on.Yes. Martha, Craig
0:50:02 > 0:50:06says that it seems other people have covered it up and from Simone Biles'
0:50:06 > 0:50:10statement she said she was told to trust this man. I mean, that is just
0:50:10 > 0:50:17shocking, isn't it?I think that's what makes this case so serious and
0:50:17 > 0:50:22so horrifying really. It's the abuse of that power. It's a man who these
0:50:22 > 0:50:27young women put their trust in and he, you know, he took advantage of
0:50:27 > 0:50:32that in the worst possible way and I think you can really hear the anger
0:50:32 > 0:50:39both in Simone Biles written statement, but also Ali Raisman, she
0:50:39 > 0:50:45is seething. It is quite clear she is very angry at the treatment that
0:50:45 > 0:50:49she received from USA gymnastics and there probably has to be a look at
0:50:49 > 0:50:52the whistle-blowing and the procedures within that organisation
0:50:52 > 0:50:58because those young women felt like they couldn't speak up.I wonder if
0:50:58 > 0:51:04it is something unique to gymnastics in this respect in that you can
0:51:04 > 0:51:08reach an elite level at such a young age in gymnastics, can't you?It is
0:51:08 > 0:51:11an early specialised sport and that's one of the problems is
0:51:11 > 0:51:16because you have young people involved in physical activity, and
0:51:16 > 0:51:21unfortunately the world we live in, this area is where these people will
0:51:21 > 0:51:25target groups to get involved. I think the biggest shock to me is
0:51:25 > 0:51:31that this guy has been involved since the 1980s. The gymnasts have
0:51:31 > 0:51:36felt that they can't speak out. There has been maybe some sort of
0:51:36 > 0:51:43cover-up. And at what point do you go that's acceptable, enough is
0:51:43 > 0:51:49enough.
0:51:49 > 0:51:53enough. They have had success and maybe in the past, the gymnasts have
0:51:53 > 0:51:57said to the coaches, "I'm not happy about this sort of treatment." Maybe
0:51:57 > 0:52:01the coaches have said, "Well, you know, some of these things, you just
0:52:01 > 0:52:08have to put up with because of the coaches desire to be successful. I
0:52:08 > 0:52:13think the whole system really needs looking at and the coaches of these
0:52:13 > 0:52:20gymnasts, you know, if the gymnasts have said this tomb, "I'm being
0:52:20 > 0:52:24abused." What have the coaches done about it? I have had a fantastic
0:52:24 > 0:52:27relationship with all my coaches and I have been lucky enough to have
0:52:27 > 0:52:30been in a system where I have not seen any of this abuse, but I felt
0:52:30 > 0:52:34that I had a strong enough relationship with my coach he would
0:52:34 > 0:52:40have definitely done something about it. So there are lots of questions
0:52:40 > 0:52:46not only for USA gymness Aks, but for the coaches of these gymnasts if
0:52:46 > 0:52:50they have raised their concerns. Martha, in this country, as far as I
0:52:50 > 0:52:54am aware, at the top level of gymnasts there have been no claims
0:52:54 > 0:52:57of sexual abuse, but from your investigations there has been claims
0:52:57 > 0:53:01of physical abuse and allegations of emotional abuse. Remind our audience
0:53:01 > 0:53:06about those?Yeah, I think it is key to say that there is not been any
0:53:06 > 0:53:10allegations of that seriousness, but I think you can also under estimate
0:53:10 > 0:53:14how much of a toll physical and particularly emotional abuse takes
0:53:14 > 0:53:18and there have been numerous allegations in recent years about
0:53:18 > 0:53:23emotional abuse and there was a police investigation last year into
0:53:23 > 0:53:27a coach who was abused of emotionally abusing female athletes
0:53:27 > 0:53:33within their care. So, we do have to be vigilant of those cases and I
0:53:33 > 0:53:40think Craig and yourself mentioned there about how young an age you do
0:53:40 > 0:53:45become an elite gymness and female gymnasts can go to the Olympics aged
0:53:45 > 0:53:4916 and for male gymnasts it is 18. So I wonder whether maybe female
0:53:49 > 0:53:52gymnasts are more vulnerable to abuse if there is more of a chance
0:53:52 > 0:53:58of them being exploited in that way. OK.
0:53:58 > 0:54:05I wonder Craig, I mean you heard in Simone Biles statement that she is
0:54:05 > 0:54:11going to have to go back to this training facility to preparing for
0:54:11 > 0:54:15Tokyo 2020, the very facility where she says the sexual abuse happened.
0:54:15 > 0:54:21I mean, I think that's ridiculous. If USA gymnastics are talking about
0:54:21 > 0:54:28change and moving forward, the first thing they need to do is build a new
0:54:28 > 0:54:33national centre away from this. Yes, you know, it's not cheap to build a
0:54:33 > 0:54:36gymnastics centre, but you're talking about, you know, victims
0:54:36 > 0:54:41that have gone through serious abuse, returning to that scene. It
0:54:41 > 0:54:45is just the most ludicrous thing that I've ever heard of within
0:54:45 > 0:54:51sport. It certainly won't happen anywhere else so they really need to
0:54:51 > 0:54:56look at that and say we are totally supportive in my mind by returning
0:54:56 > 0:55:00to the camp it's almost saying well, we just want to forget about it. You
0:55:00 > 0:55:09can't forget about this. Over 130 victims, you know, at the hands of
0:55:09 > 0:55:13this nasty, horrible man within that centre so, they really need to look
0:55:13 > 0:55:18at changing the venue for certain. Thank you very much, Craig Heap,
0:55:18 > 0:55:23thank you for coming on the programme and Martha, journalist
0:55:23 > 0:55:28from the Guardian. British gymnastics deny any claims about a
0:55:28 > 0:55:38culture of fear.
0:55:38 > 0:55:41The government has promised its top priority will be maintaining
0:55:41 > 0:55:42vital public services, after Carillion was
0:55:42 > 0:55:43put into liquidation.
0:55:43 > 0:55:46Our reporter Andy Moore has more details on this story now.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49What's the latest today, Andy?The question is about the tens of
0:55:49 > 0:55:54thousands of companies that are subject contractors for Carillion,
0:55:54 > 0:55:58people working in hospitals, prisons and schools, they will be paid about
0:55:58 > 0:56:01the Government, what about the private subcrat rs. They have been
0:56:01 > 0:56:04saying that Carillion wasn't a good payer in the past anyway, a lot have
0:56:04 > 0:56:07outstanding debt and now it looks as if many of them won't be paid for
0:56:07 > 0:56:11the contracts that are up coming. And there is evidence from the past
0:56:11 > 0:56:15that when there is a big collapse like this, many of the small
0:56:15 > 0:56:19subcontractors won't survive. There is evidence from the past, 17%, 18%
0:56:19 > 0:56:23of them won't survive after five years, we have heard from one
0:56:23 > 0:56:30company saying it has an impact, possible financial impact of £1.6
0:56:30 > 0:56:33million and it has warned its shareholders about the adverse
0:56:33 > 0:56:38financial impact.And questions continue to be asked about president
0:56:38 > 0:56:41government giving Carillion contracts after a profits warning
0:56:41 > 0:56:46and after the Chief Executive departed last summer and about why
0:56:46 > 0:56:49that former Chief Executive is being paid a very large salary until
0:56:49 > 0:56:54October this year?That's right. The former Chief Executive was paid £1.6
0:56:54 > 0:56:58million. He is going to be paid £600,000 as you say, until October
0:56:58 > 0:57:03this year. So a lot of questions being asked about that. The Liberal
0:57:03 > 0:57:08Democrat leader, Sir Vince Cable, said it was a reward for failure.
0:57:08 > 0:57:12David Lidington from the Government said the whole situation would be
0:57:12 > 0:57:16looked at and there could be a financial penalty if misconduct was
0:57:16 > 0:57:19proved. Thank you very much, Andy, thank
0:57:19 > 0:57:22you. We will bring you the latest news
0:57:22 > 0:57:27and sport in the next couple of minutes. Before that, here is the
0:57:27 > 0:57:31weather and Carol, what is going on, it's getting colder.
0:57:31 > 0:57:32weather and Carol, what is going on, it's getting colder.
0:57:32 > 0:57:37If I show you some of our Weather Watcher pictures you can see where
0:57:37 > 0:57:41we have had the snow. A beautiful picture from the Highlands and we've
0:57:41 > 0:57:45got another one too, this is North Yorkshire. Some lying snow here and
0:57:45 > 0:57:50finally, well, we have got some more snow too across County Antrim. So it
0:57:50 > 0:57:53is northern England and Northern Ireland and Scotland seeing the
0:57:53 > 0:57:56lion's share of the snow fall. Even down to sea level. Elsewhere, today,
0:57:56 > 0:58:01we are looking at showers. Some of those across Wales and central
0:58:01 > 0:58:04England will be wintry through the afternoon in the heavier showers,
0:58:04 > 0:58:08but generally there will be rain with hail and that will be the case
0:58:08 > 0:58:14as we push further south. It is a brisk wind. And also driving the
0:58:14 > 0:58:18showers. So, with height across Northern Ireland, Scotland and
0:58:18 > 0:58:21northern England, well we are looking at drifting and also
0:58:21 > 0:58:24potentially blizzard conditions. But at lower levels you can see the snow
0:58:24 > 0:58:31showers. They will be blowing around in the wind. For northern England
0:58:31 > 0:58:35further snow showers to come your way, but they are showers so not all
0:58:35 > 0:58:38of us are seeing them. For Wales, most of the showers will be rain or
0:58:38 > 0:58:43hail at lower levels, but in some of the heavier ones we could see snow
0:58:43 > 0:58:46at lower levels too. Gusty winds whipping up large waves across
0:58:46 > 0:58:49south-west England. That will be the case for the next few days and
0:58:49 > 0:58:53again, we are looking at the wintry flavour on the moors for example,
0:58:53 > 0:58:56largely with height. But for much of the Midlands, East Anglia and the
0:58:56 > 0:59:00South East, it should stay dry. If you see a shower, it is more likely
0:59:00 > 0:59:04to be of rain. The temperatures today will be two to seven Celsius.
0:59:04 > 0:59:09Add on the strength of the wind, it's going to feel sub-zero for many
0:59:09 > 0:59:12parts of the UK. Through this evening and overnight, we continue
0:59:12 > 0:59:15with the snow showers. A good flurry of them crossing from the west
0:59:15 > 0:59:19towards the east being driven in on the wind. There will be the risk of
0:59:19 > 0:59:22ice on untreated surfaces and it's going to be a cold night. These are
0:59:22 > 0:59:26the temperatures you can expect in towns and cities. So we start
0:59:26 > 0:59:29tomorrow on this note. Still a lot of snow showers. Some of them fading
0:59:29 > 0:59:34as we go through the day. The wind will ease for a time, but it won't
0:59:34 > 0:59:37last and we will see a lot of dry weather and more sunshine than we're
0:59:37 > 0:59:41expecting today, but the next system is waiting in the wings. Now this is
0:59:41 > 0:59:44an area of low pressure that's forming off the coast of the United
0:59:44 > 0:59:48States. It will deepen as it moves across the Atlantic and this is the
0:59:48 > 0:59:51track we think it's going to take, but this track could change
0:59:51 > 0:59:54slightly. So as it comes in across the k, it will bring heavy rain.
0:59:54 > 0:59:58Some snow across Northern Ireland, North Wales, northern England,
0:59:58 > 1:00:00southern and eastern parts of Scotland. That could be disruptive
1:00:00 > 1:00:06snow. We expect it to be quite heavy. If you look at the isobars,
1:00:06 > 1:00:09they are squeeze the tightly, we are looking at gales across North Wales,
1:00:09 > 1:00:12parts of northern England, heading down through parts of the Midlands
1:00:12 > 1:00:16and Norfolk. That will rattle through quickly during the course of
1:00:16 > 1:00:21Thursday morning. Leaving behind it still a windy day, just not as
1:00:21 > 1:00:23windy, wherever you are, with temperatures between three and
1:00:23 > 1:00:26around nine Celsius.
1:00:31 > 1:00:31#r
1:00:31 > 1:00:34Hello it's Tuesday, it's 10 O'Clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.
1:00:34 > 1:00:36I'm Victoria Derbyshire.
1:00:36 > 1:00:39Our top story this morning - 13 brothers and sisters have
1:00:39 > 1:00:42been rescued from a house in California, some of them had
1:00:42 > 1:00:43been chained to their beds.
1:00:43 > 1:00:51Their parents have been charged with torture.
1:00:51 > 1:00:54Here were some kids from 29 to two, held captive and malnourished.
1:00:54 > 1:00:56It's heartbreaking.
1:00:56 > 1:00:58The siblings were rescued after one girl managed to escape
1:00:58 > 1:00:59and raise the alarm.
1:00:59 > 1:01:03We'll bring you the full story this morning.
1:01:03 > 1:01:06A Marie Stopes clinic in London could become the first
1:01:06 > 1:01:08to be surrounded by a special protection zone, to shield women
1:01:08 > 1:01:16from anti-abortion protesters holding vigils outside.
1:01:16 > 1:01:22We can see the women being addressed as "mum" on the way out and saying -
1:01:22 > 1:01:25youed shouldn't have killed your child, you shouldn't have murdered
1:01:25 > 1:01:30your child.
1:01:30 > 1:01:33We'll be speaking to a nurse from the clinic about the impact
1:01:33 > 1:01:37on patietns of those protests
1:01:37 > 1:01:43And if you were in charge of the NHS, what would you do to sort out
1:01:43 > 1:01:51the printer pressures, to sort out the lack of beds, and queues with
1:01:51 > 1:01:55ambulances. Your views are welcome in the next hour.
1:01:55 > 1:01:56Good Morning.
1:01:56 > 1:01:59Here's Reeta in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.
1:01:59 > 1:02:01Police in California have rescued 13 siblings from a house,
1:02:01 > 1:02:03where some of them were shackled to their beds.
1:02:03 > 1:02:06The alarm was raised on Sunday, when one girl escaped
1:02:06 > 1:02:07and alerted the authorities.
1:02:07 > 1:02:09Their parents have been arrested and charged with torture
1:02:09 > 1:02:11and child endangerment.
1:02:11 > 1:02:19Our North America Correspondent James Cook has this report.
1:02:19 > 1:02:21They look like a big, happy family.
1:02:21 > 1:02:23The children a little pale, perhaps, but smiling.
1:02:23 > 1:02:26Photographs on Facebook show the Turpins visiting
1:02:26 > 1:02:29Disneyland and in Las Vegas, as their apparently proud parents
1:02:29 > 1:02:31renewed wedding vows.
1:02:31 > 1:02:33Now David and Louise Turpin are under arrest, charged
1:02:33 > 1:02:38with torture and child endangerment.
1:02:38 > 1:02:40Their children in hospital.
1:02:40 > 1:02:43Our staff is used to taking care of people who are quite ill,
1:02:43 > 1:02:50they are used to compassionate care, and so we pull out all the stops,
1:02:50 > 1:02:58so to speak, to make sure that their privacy is dealt with,
1:02:59 > 1:03:01that they get appropriate care and that they are treated
1:03:01 > 1:03:04with dignity and respect at a time when they need it the most.
1:03:04 > 1:03:07The horror on Muir Woods Road was uncovered early on Sunday
1:03:07 > 1:03:09morning when a 17-year-old girl escaped with a mobile phone
1:03:09 > 1:03:10and called the police.
1:03:10 > 1:03:13At the home, officers found 12 siblings and were shocked
1:03:13 > 1:03:16to discover that seven were adults - the oldest, 29.
1:03:16 > 1:03:19The captives were dirty and malnourished, say police,
1:03:19 > 1:03:21shackled to their beds with chains and padlocks in dark
1:03:21 > 1:03:28and foul-smelling surroundings.
1:03:28 > 1:03:35As the reporters arrived in the quite suburb in Los Angeles,
1:03:35 > 1:03:42neighbours were stunned.
1:03:42 > 1:03:48neighbours were stunned.They coat to themselves.
1:03:48 > 1:03:50They kept to themselves, in a sense, clan-ish,
1:03:50 > 1:03:52so they only kept to themselves.
1:03:52 > 1:03:55And the only time you would see them, you would never see anyone
1:03:55 > 1:03:58visit, you would never see anyone come outside, all you would really
1:03:58 > 1:04:01see is that they would go out and maybe make a grocery run
1:04:01 > 1:04:02and that was about it.
1:04:02 > 1:04:05There is no hint at all here of the grim conditions inside this home.
1:04:05 > 1:04:06The questions about what happened are mounting.
1:04:06 > 1:04:09Not least, how long were the siblings held captive and why.
1:04:09 > 1:04:14James Cook, BBC News, Perris, California.
1:04:14 > 1:04:16The future of some major construction projects and hundreds
1:04:16 > 1:04:20of public service contracts hang in the balance this morning, after the
1:04:20 > 1:04:23collapse of Carillion. Britain's second largest construction firm,
1:04:23 > 1:04:27which also holds cleaning and catering contracts for schools,
1:04:27 > 1:04:30hospitals and prisons, went into liquidation yesterday, with debts of
1:04:30 > 1:04:36around £1.5 billion.
1:04:42 > 1:04:47The four time Olympic gymnastcy moan Biles has said she has been abused.
1:04:47 > 1:04:51She said she has been reluctant to speak out until now. Larry Na Serbs
1:04:51 > 1:04:56r was jailed last month for 60 years for possessing images of child
1:04:56 > 1:04:59sexual abuse and is awaiting sentence for assaulting other
1:04:59 > 1:05:01athletes.
1:05:01 > 1:05:03Inflation eased slightly from its six-year high in December.
1:05:03 > 1:05:05The Consumer Prices Index slipped to an annual rate
1:05:05 > 1:05:07of 3% - down from 3.1% in November.
1:05:07 > 1:05:14Across the eurozone, inflation stood at just 1.4%.
1:05:14 > 1:05:20New footage has emerged of a car that became embedded on the first
1:05:20 > 1:05:24floor of an office block inical foreignia. Video from a bus captures
1:05:24 > 1:05:27the moment the car crosses its path before flying through the air
1:05:27 > 1:05:31towards the building. The driver and passenger escaped with minor
1:05:31 > 1:05:33injuries.
1:05:33 > 1:05:35That's a summary of the latest BBC News.
1:05:35 > 1:05:38More at 10.30am.
1:05:38 > 1:05:42We have a text from somebody who is in hospital right now. They don't
1:05:42 > 1:05:45leave their name, "The staff are mazing and my experience is positive
1:05:45 > 1:05:49but it is clear the nurses, doctors ands fa its are being overworked.
1:05:49 > 1:05:53It's not sustainable. I'm sick of Conservative politicians taking any
1:05:53 > 1:05:57credit for our fabulous NHS, when they've presided over such
1:05:57 > 1:06:02inadequate funding." And this text "Part of the problem is river Friday
1:06:02 > 1:06:11and Saturday night, without fail, the A&E is full of the same idiots
1:06:11 > 1:06:14taking up valuable resources repeat or second thoird offenders should
1:06:14 > 1:06:19incur a £50 charge. It won't fix the problem but it would happen, not
1:06:19 > 1:06:25least the savings, if two security staff helping with this unwanted
1:06:25 > 1:06:35disruption." And this on twitter. "Two ladies at my loikal GP, with
1:06:35 > 1:06:40snotty noses after free Calpol. Why? You can see why GPs are swamped."
1:06:40 > 1:06:43Get in touch your experiences, both positive and injury which is from
1:06:43 > 1:06:49the NHS this winter.
1:06:49 > 1:06:51use #VictoriaLIVE.
1:06:51 > 1:06:53If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.
1:06:53 > 1:06:55Here's some sport now with Hugh.
1:06:55 > 1:06:57British number one Johanna Konta is through to the second
1:06:57 > 1:06:58round of the Australian Open.
1:06:58 > 1:07:01Her win over Madison Brengle took place in temperatures
1:07:01 > 1:07:02of almost 40 degrees.
1:07:02 > 1:07:04Although Konta said she really enjoyed the heat in Melbourne
1:07:04 > 1:07:07and tried to absorb the atmosphere in the arena and she certainly
1:07:07 > 1:07:11looked comfortable out there, dropping only four games in a match
1:07:11 > 1:07:14that lasted a little over an hour and afterwards she seemed more
1:07:14 > 1:07:19concerned with what she's called "the blueberry debacle".
1:07:19 > 1:07:23I went to the supermarket to buy blueberries. I only bought
1:07:23 > 1:07:29blueberries. Two pun ets. I left two pun ets tlchl it is $5 I will not
1:07:29 > 1:07:33get back but it is the betrayal of my own mind I feel so upset about. I
1:07:33 > 1:07:40was so sad.Breaking news, this morning, it is OK, she has more
1:07:40 > 1:07:41blueberries, since.
1:07:41 > 1:07:43Britain's other player in the women's draw, Heather Watson,
1:07:43 > 1:07:45is a set down in her match against Yulia Putintseva.
1:07:45 > 1:07:49She fought back, going a break up in the second set,
1:07:49 > 1:07:50but she's just been broken herself.
1:07:50 > 1:07:52She now leads 4-3 with Putintseva serving.
1:07:52 > 1:07:54Defending champion Roger Federer had a fairly straight-forward passage
1:07:54 > 1:07:59into the second round.
1:07:59 > 1:08:01He beat the former British player Alljaz Bedene in straight sets.
1:08:01 > 1:08:03The six-times champion Novak Djokovic has been back
1:08:03 > 1:08:05in action for the first time since Wimbledon
1:08:05 > 1:08:07and he came through with ease, only dropping serve once,
1:08:07 > 1:08:10in beating Donald Young.
1:08:10 > 1:08:13Djokovic is seeded 14th, after missing the second half
1:08:13 > 1:08:17of 2017 with an elbow injury.
1:08:17 > 1:08:21Manchester United's Paul Pogba says they still have Manchester City
1:08:21 > 1:08:23in their sights after reducing the leaders' advantage at the top
1:08:23 > 1:08:26of the Premier League to 12 points.
1:08:26 > 1:08:32Pogba inspired United to a 3-0 win against Stoke,
1:08:32 > 1:08:35setting up two goals, including this one for Anthony Martial.
1:08:35 > 1:08:37New Stoke manager Paul Lambert was watching from the stands.
1:08:37 > 1:08:39His opposite number Jose Mourinho insists United aren't
1:08:39 > 1:08:45giving up on the title race yet.
1:08:45 > 1:08:50We know that the distance is a very important distance. I have been
1:08:50 > 1:08:55there before and you can control your Distiny when you play relaxed
1:08:55 > 1:09:00and when you play relaxed the best qualities are company coming. I
1:09:00 > 1:09:04think they have their destiny in their hands. We want to win matches
1:09:04 > 1:09:07and finish the best we can.
1:09:07 > 1:09:09Mourinho and Manchester United are a lot closer to making
1:09:09 > 1:09:10a major signing.
1:09:10 > 1:09:12Manchester City have pulled out of the race
1:09:12 > 1:09:13for Arsenal's Alexis Sanchez.
1:09:13 > 1:09:16It's understood the wages being demanded by Sanchez would have
1:09:16 > 1:09:17made him the top earner at the Etihad,
1:09:17 > 1:09:19something that Pep Guardiola and the club's hierarchy
1:09:19 > 1:09:21were not willing to do.
1:09:21 > 1:09:22Manchester United and Chelsea are rumoured to be
1:09:22 > 1:09:25interested in the Chilean.
1:09:25 > 1:09:28England cricketer Ben Stokes says he's keen
1:09:28 > 1:09:31to clear his name in court after he was charged with affray.
1:09:31 > 1:09:35It relates to an incident outside a Bristol nightclub in September.
1:09:35 > 1:09:38Stokes missed the Ashes Series and the selectors will be meeting
1:09:38 > 1:09:41over the next couple of days to discuss his future.
1:09:41 > 1:09:46He's been charged along with two other men.
1:09:46 > 1:09:53That's all the sport for now. Headlines just after 10.30am.
1:09:53 > 1:09:5513 siblings - ranging in age from two to 29 -
1:09:55 > 1:09:58have been rescued by police in California from a house
1:09:58 > 1:10:05where some of them had been chained to beds.
1:10:05 > 1:10:11They were found in a house in a residential neighbourhood near LA -
1:10:11 > 1:10:14after one of the children escaped with a mobile phone
1:10:14 > 1:10:16she'd found and managed to call the police.
1:10:16 > 1:10:17John Fenoglio is a news correspondent
1:10:17 > 1:10:19with KTLA-5 in Los Angeles.
1:10:19 > 1:10:21He told me how the alarm was raised.
1:10:21 > 1:10:22This is truly an horrific child abuse investigation.
1:10:22 > 1:10:25What we know from police is that early Sunday morning a young
1:10:25 > 1:10:26girl called for help.
1:10:26 > 1:10:29She said she was being held captive, along with her 12 brothers
1:10:29 > 1:10:32and sisters, and that some of them had been shackled to
1:10:32 > 1:10:34their beds with padlocks.
1:10:34 > 1:10:38Responding officers found what they described as a young,
1:10:38 > 1:10:41emaciated girl, they believed to be about ten, but in fact
1:10:41 > 1:10:44she was 17-years-old.
1:10:44 > 1:10:52She led police back to their home, and what officers described was a
1:10:59 > 1:11:01a hellish scenario.
1:11:01 > 1:11:03Children chained to their beds, police could not give an adequate
1:11:03 > 1:11:04ents both arrested.
1:11:04 > 1:11:06The officers say what they discovered
1:11:06 > 1:11:08with several people chained to their beds in dark and foul
1:11:08 > 1:11:13smelling conditions.
1:11:13 > 1:11:18You say this girl who appeared to be ten but in fact was 17 had called to
1:11:18 > 1:11:21help.
1:11:21 > 1:11:29Had she escaped from a house?
1:11:29 > 1:11:32According to a police statement she said she was able to
1:11:32 > 1:11:35escape from the house and take a cell phone with her.
1:11:35 > 1:11:37That's when the officers discovered the chilling environment.Do we note
1:11:37 > 1:11:41ages of the brothers and sisters? The Youngest two, the oldest 29.
1:11:41 > 1:11:47They have all been taken to a hospital for a medical evaluation.
1:11:47 > 1:11:51Right now we don't know their condition and police are keeping a
1:11:51 > 1:11:57tight lid on the situation at the time.What are neighbours say?They
1:11:57 > 1:12:01are saying it is a bizarre situation, it is about 70 miles
1:12:01 > 1:12:06north-east of Los Angeles. It is a quiet community. Neighbours say they
1:12:06 > 1:12:10never saw the children and when they z they would act a bit cagey, some
1:12:10 > 1:12:15would not respond at all. There is a strange tale that one neighbour
1:12:15 > 1:12:18describes, saying some of the children are were outside in the
1:12:18 > 1:12:22front yard at night planting grass but again all the neighbours we have
1:12:22 > 1:12:26spoken with, say the children, were, for the most part, unresponsive and
1:12:26 > 1:12:30that they didn't see them very often. You say two adults are being
1:12:30 > 1:12:38held on charges of torture child endangerment. Are he this the
1:12:38 > 1:12:46parents as far as we know? Yes, two people have been arrested.
1:12:46 > 1:12:5057-year-old David Alan Turpin and his wife, being charged with child
1:12:50 > 1:12:56engagement and torture, both being held on $9 million bail.
1:12:56 > 1:12:58After the couple were arrested neighbours began to learn how some
1:12:58 > 1:13:01of the children had been held captive in dark and dirty rooms,
1:13:01 > 1:13:03some had been so malnourished the authorities initially thought
1:13:03 > 1:13:11they were all underaged.
1:13:12 > 1:13:17We heard on Facebook and on the news this family holed their children
1:13:17 > 1:13:21captive o in the house and chained some of their kids to the beds. It's
1:13:21 > 1:13:24been really shocking knowing they have 12 kids locked in their house.
1:13:24 > 1:13:27They were the type that you didn't really get to know anything about
1:13:27 > 1:13:34them. They were very to themselves, in a sense clan-ish. So they only
1:13:34 > 1:13:40kept to themselves. The only time you would see them, you would never
1:13:40 > 1:13:44see them on business, or anyone come outside. All you would really see is
1:13:44 > 1:13:49that they would go out, maybe make a grocery run, that was about it. They
1:13:49 > 1:13:53kept to themselves. They were, like I said, the kids were inadvice I
1:13:53 > 1:13:58will. The only time I saw the kids, beside the Christmas incident, they
1:13:58 > 1:14:01were just coming out of the car and going into the house, that was T it
1:14:01 > 1:14:05was never - I never saw the kids by themselves. The parents were close
1:14:05 > 1:14:11around. But I believe that they, even though I thought they were kids
1:14:11 > 1:14:15because they physically looked like pre-steep, I don't believe they
1:14:15 > 1:14:22were. I think these were the 20-year-olds.
1:14:22 > 1:14:2620-year-olds.Still to come: If you were in charge of the NHS, what
1:14:26 > 1:14:29would you do to try to sort a long-term sustainable funding
1:14:29 > 1:14:35situation. To sort winter pressures, overcrowded kids, queues at
1:14:35 > 1:14:40ambulances and so on. Your funding issues, welcome.
1:14:40 > 1:14:42A council in London will today consider the next step
1:14:42 > 1:14:45in the launching of a special order to stop anti-abortion protectors
1:14:45 > 1:14:47holding daily vigils outside of a Marie Stopes Clinic.
1:14:47 > 1:14:55The demonstrators are accused of "harassing" women attending
1:14:55 > 1:14:57the abortion clinic in Ealing and displaying "deliberately
1:14:57 > 1:14:58disturbing images".
1:14:58 > 1:15:01Councillors will decide whether to begin a consultation
1:15:01 > 1:15:08on whether or not to bring in a public space protection order -
1:15:08 > 1:15:13to prevent disruption at the clinic.
1:15:13 > 1:15:16If it's granted, it would be the first time it's been used
1:15:16 > 1:15:18in a situation involving an abortion clinic.
1:15:18 > 1:15:20We're going to speak now to John Hansen-Brevetti,
1:15:20 > 1:15:22a nurse and manager at the Ealing Marie Stopes clinic.
1:15:22 > 1:15:24Councillor Binda Rai represents the area where the clinic
1:15:24 > 1:15:27is and brought this issue to the attention of the council.
1:15:27 > 1:15:28And Claire McCullough, Founding Trustee of
1:15:28 > 1:15:36The Good Counsel Network,
1:15:38 > 1:15:40which hold daily vigils outside the clinic, an organisation
1:15:40 > 1:15:41affiliated to the US anti-abortion
1:15:41 > 1:15:45movement.
1:15:45 > 1:15:50John, tell us how the vigils have changed over time?We have seen the
1:15:50 > 1:15:55tactics used outside our doors get worse. Staff who been at the clinic
1:15:55 > 1:15:59for upwards of 20 years can describe a time when it was just peaceful
1:15:59 > 1:16:02prayer happening outside which people still found intimidating, but
1:16:02 > 1:16:07it is different to what we see today which is people standing directly
1:16:07 > 1:16:14outside our gates, engaging everyone who comes past trying to persuade
1:16:14 > 1:16:20them not to attend their treatment and they do this by calling them,
1:16:20 > 1:16:29"Mum" by saying they will be haunted by the ghost of that I foetus, they
1:16:29 > 1:16:34will say Rosarys at them and try and close the gate.All that you have
1:16:34 > 1:16:40described is lawful?It is and that's the issue is that when we
1:16:40 > 1:16:44call the police, they're quite frustrated that also little they can
1:16:44 > 1:16:48do under current laws to protect women from going through that
1:16:48 > 1:16:52horrific experience, through that emotional blackmail and that's why
1:16:52 > 1:16:57we're pleased with the leadership that Ealing Council has shown in
1:16:57 > 1:17:00bringing the proposal forward and taking the next step. It is a
1:17:00 > 1:17:03landmark thing and it has implications for the whole country
1:17:03 > 1:17:06and we're hoping that Parliament will take their cue and show
1:17:06 > 1:17:09leadership at a national level as well.What is wrong with trying to
1:17:09 > 1:17:14persuade a woman about to go into your clinic to have an abortion
1:17:14 > 1:17:18potentially not to have one or to think further about it?Part of is
1:17:18 > 1:17:25the information that they're given. Women are given leaflets by the
1:17:25 > 1:17:27pavement counsellors that have completely false information on
1:17:27 > 1:17:31them, that they'll develop cancer, that they'll develop drug and
1:17:31 > 1:17:35alcohol habits, that they will feel inadequate as a mother in the
1:17:35 > 1:17:38future, the information they are receiving is wrong. The way in which
1:17:38 > 1:17:42it is being given to them is coercive and we see it as they come
1:17:42 > 1:17:46through our doors, they're shaking and they are in tears and they are
1:17:46 > 1:17:49angry as are their partners or families who come to support them.
1:17:49 > 1:17:53What do they say to you when they get inside?They tell us that they
1:17:53 > 1:17:57have been called murderers and had their paths blocked and they felt
1:17:57 > 1:18:00judged and shamed and we see it happening, not only on the way in,
1:18:00 > 1:18:03but on the way out as well which is how we know this isn't about
1:18:03 > 1:18:07providing information or support, this is about making people feel
1:18:07 > 1:18:11ashamed, scared and intimidated about accessing treatment that
1:18:11 > 1:18:13they've, in most cases, really thought long and hard about and come
1:18:13 > 1:18:17to a firm decision already.You have cameras outside?It focuses just on
1:18:17 > 1:18:21our property. We are not allowed to film beyond that because it's a
1:18:21 > 1:18:25public area and we have some large hedges that block our view of most
1:18:25 > 1:18:29of this.A public space protection order is a step closer, Ealing
1:18:29 > 1:18:32Council are going to decide tonight whether to launch a consultation on
1:18:32 > 1:18:37bringing one in. What impact do you think such an order would have on
1:18:37 > 1:18:41the Ealing clinic if it were to brought in?It would be an
1:18:41 > 1:18:47incredible day for us to know that our patients were coming to the
1:18:47 > 1:18:50clinic free that that experience on the way in and way out. It is
1:18:50 > 1:18:53something that people can enjoy in Ealing, but it is happening outside
1:18:53 > 1:18:57clinics across the country, but it is an important first step and we
1:18:57 > 1:19:03would welcome it.You have been going to the clinic and standing
1:19:03 > 1:19:06outside for several years taking part in vigils. The last time we
1:19:06 > 1:19:10spoke to you on this programme you denied all of the kind of claims
1:19:10 > 1:19:15that you've heard this morning from the nurse at the clinic today. Is he
1:19:15 > 1:19:21lying?Unfortunately, yes. Can I just say again...No, no...Yes,
1:19:21 > 1:19:28he's lying.How do you respond to that?I think unfortunately there
1:19:28 > 1:19:34has been a lot of denial about the impact this has on women. We've, we
1:19:34 > 1:19:37hear it from our own patients. We hear it from our neighbours who
1:19:37 > 1:19:40phone us and say that they can see people distressed outside the
1:19:40 > 1:19:45clinic. We've had officers from the council for the past several weeks
1:19:45 > 1:19:48interviewing women and not only have they heard it from the women, but
1:19:48 > 1:19:52they have felt harassed and intimidated on the way in.Clare,
1:19:52 > 1:19:55you wouldn't know the impact on the patients because once they're
1:19:55 > 1:19:59inside, you don't see them, so you have no idea what effect you're
1:19:59 > 1:20:03having on these patients?I think when you stand outside an abortion
1:20:03 > 1:20:06centre for 20 years and many of the women who stand there with us are
1:20:06 > 1:20:10women who have had pay bortions, many, many people who come to vigils
1:20:10 > 1:20:16outside clinics...I am talking about the women inside the clinics.
1:20:16 > 1:20:19They have been past people like ourselves and come to the vigils. So
1:20:19 > 1:20:24think we have a good idea on what women may feel.Do you accept that
1:20:24 > 1:20:28however you're doing t for some women and their partners, once they
1:20:28 > 1:20:33get inside the Marie Stopes clinic, they are upset, distressed and angry
1:20:33 > 1:20:38at you, not at their own decision, to have a termination?I think
1:20:38 > 1:20:41abortion is something that upsets women a lot I'm sure some women
1:20:41 > 1:20:46would rather... I'm trying to answer.No, you are answering a
1:20:46 > 1:20:50different question.I accept that some women who are extremely upset
1:20:50 > 1:20:52at the horrible decision they are feeling they have to take, don't
1:20:52 > 1:20:58like our presence there, yes, I accept that.So why do you carry on
1:20:58 > 1:21:08then?Can I just correct, you said we are affiliated to the group in
1:21:08 > 1:21:12America, we are not.Why do you carry on?Last Friday I spoke to
1:21:12 > 1:21:16several of my counsellors who during the week one of them at Ealing had
1:21:16 > 1:21:19spoken to a woman who had been there three times and didn't want to go
1:21:19 > 1:21:23ahead with the abortion and felt she had no alternatives, at this moment,
1:21:23 > 1:21:26one of the passers-by saw this crying lady and grabbed her arm and
1:21:26 > 1:21:30rushed into the clinic with her because she could see this woman was
1:21:30 > 1:21:34upset and presumed we were upsetting her. On that occasion, a woman had
1:21:34 > 1:21:37approached us for help and support that she was not getting inside the
1:21:37 > 1:21:42abortion centre, that's why we're still there.That's the explanation,
1:21:42 > 1:21:46the justification for why the group is still there, what do you say?
1:21:46 > 1:21:51Well, over the past four months or so now, our officers have been
1:21:51 > 1:21:55investigating all these claims. They have been collecting evidence and
1:21:55 > 1:21:59what we've concluded is that the behaviour outside the clinic is
1:21:59 > 1:22:04unacceptable. There is harassment. There is intimidation of these women
1:22:04 > 1:22:08and I think basically we have a responsibility to stop that sort of
1:22:08 > 1:22:14behaviour.Why haven't you called the police?The police have been
1:22:14 > 1:22:17called on some occasion and we have constant policing outside the
1:22:17 > 1:22:21clinic. I know that every Saturday that I have been there, the police
1:22:21 > 1:22:26are there in force, but it's very difficult for the police because
1:22:26 > 1:22:30their current legislation is really restricting because in terms of
1:22:30 > 1:22:33harassment, you have got to prove this is continuous harassment to one
1:22:33 > 1:22:37individual and many of the women that come and visit the clinic will
1:22:37 > 1:22:41only come once or twice so it's really difficult to make harassment
1:22:41 > 1:22:44stand up legally.I'm going to appeal to our audience, we have been
1:22:44 > 1:22:48trying to talk to women who have been going to the clinic,
1:22:48 > 1:22:51understandably, it is a very sensitive situation, but if there is
1:22:51 > 1:22:57anybody watching right now, who has used the clinic and who has walked
1:22:57 > 1:23:01past the group holding the vigils, do send me an e-mail now or a
1:23:01 > 1:23:06message and you can do that anonymously and tell us your own
1:23:06 > 1:23:11experiences. What would be the effect of this kind of protection
1:23:11 > 1:23:14order if the council takes the decision to hold a consultation on
1:23:14 > 1:23:18it which is a step closer to the order?Yes, the effect would be that
1:23:18 > 1:23:24we would have a certain area that would not allow any protesters to
1:23:24 > 1:23:31protest outside that area. So women would be able to access the clinic
1:23:31 > 1:23:33without anybody obstrucking their journey to the clinic.
1:23:33 > 1:23:38Right.And of course, we mustn't forget that would also make life a
1:23:38 > 1:23:45lot easier for people living in that street, for people using the
1:23:45 > 1:23:49facilities in that area, the park, the theatre down the road...What
1:23:49 > 1:23:52impact is it having on residents, do you say?Well, residents are having
1:23:52 > 1:23:57to see this and hear this every single day.Hear what?The prayers.
1:23:57 > 1:24:01They're having to look at the graphic images that are on
1:24:01 > 1:24:06display...We have no graphic images.Well, I was there on
1:24:06 > 1:24:14Saturday, I saw graphic images.When she says graphic pictures, you mean
1:24:14 > 1:24:18pictures of the developing baby.I think it is inappropriate for young
1:24:18 > 1:24:21children to see those images.To see pictures of a developing baby a
1:24:21 > 1:24:25womb?Parents have to choose to discuss, parents don't have a choice
1:24:25 > 1:24:29on whether they're discussing those issues with their children...What
1:24:29 > 1:24:34issues, developing babies in the womb? Lots of children see these all
1:24:34 > 1:24:38the time.Parents don't have a choice about discussion.What
1:24:38 > 1:24:43discussion?A lot of parents told me they have had to have discussion
1:24:43 > 1:24:46with their children about abortion and that's a topic they should be
1:24:46 > 1:24:49able to choose as and when they discuss it with their children.
1:24:49 > 1:24:53There is nothing in those images. There is a school nearby and people
1:24:53 > 1:24:56will use a different route to get to the school. They'll use a different
1:24:56 > 1:24:59route to get to the park and I don't think people should be restricted in
1:24:59 > 1:25:05that way because a group of people decide they want to protest, that's
1:25:05 > 1:25:10the vigil holders and the pro-choice group. I think that area needs to be
1:25:10 > 1:25:15brought back to normality. If this order is ultimately brought
1:25:15 > 1:25:21in, that would be unprecedented.It would.Particularly in terms of
1:25:21 > 1:25:25protecting an abortion clinic, if protecting is the right word, but it
1:25:25 > 1:25:28would only be in place for three years. It only lasts for three years
1:25:28 > 1:25:36is my understanding.That's the difficulty with is PSPO, but once we
1:25:36 > 1:25:39have consulted and if residents agree it would be the best fit for a
1:25:39 > 1:25:44solution for Ealing. However, we do need a national solution and I know
1:25:44 > 1:25:48that myself and Julian Bell have given evidence to the Home Affairs
1:25:48 > 1:25:53Select Committee where we have very clearly said a national solution, we
1:25:53 > 1:25:55need national legislation otherwise women across the country aren't
1:25:55 > 1:25:59going to be protected and you're going to end up with a postcode
1:25:59 > 1:26:03Lottery as John stated earlier.We are showing our audience images of
1:26:03 > 1:26:07some of the vigils outside and some of the images that are held up on
1:26:07 > 1:26:12placards and I would love to read some messages from our audience, but
1:26:12 > 1:26:15my tablet has decided to freeze on me so I apologise for that. John,
1:26:15 > 1:26:20the work that you do at the clinic, tell us about the significance of
1:26:20 > 1:26:28it.It's different for every woman who comes through. We have a lot of
1:26:28 > 1:26:32patients who simply feel they cannot continue with the pregnancy for
1:26:32 > 1:26:36whatever reason. That it would be detrimental to their lives and in
1:26:36 > 1:26:40fact the only way that abortion is legal in this country is if two
1:26:40 > 1:26:44doctors certify that continuing the pregnancy would in fact have a
1:26:44 > 1:26:48detrimental effect to that woman's mental or physical health. We have
1:26:48 > 1:26:55other women who come to us because it was a wanted pregnancy, but an
1:26:55 > 1:26:58abnormality has been discovered and they have to terminate. It is these
1:26:58 > 1:27:01sorts of circumstances that nobody knows about when a woman is
1:27:01 > 1:27:05approaching our clinic and yet they are all approached in the same way,
1:27:05 > 1:27:08every single woman and they are being told that they will be
1:27:08 > 1:27:11punished for their decision...It's not true.It is what they tell us
1:27:11 > 1:27:16when they are in the door.It is not true. If you look through the Marie
1:27:16 > 1:27:21Stopes log, there is one or two claims. These are the best
1:27:21 > 1:27:24hand-picked ones refer to the presence of sister supporters around
1:27:24 > 1:27:27the gate in many instances, the complaints of women standing away
1:27:27 > 1:27:31from the clinic and phoning the clinic because they are afraid of
1:27:31 > 1:27:39the protest at the doctor, refer to the times when sister supporter are
1:27:39 > 1:27:45across the door which are Bin Laden da and John.This is why we would be
1:27:45 > 1:27:48happy for a public space protection order that bans all protests. This
1:27:48 > 1:27:53isn't about one group. There are five different anti-abortion groups.
1:27:53 > 1:27:57We don't care if it is Sister Support outside, we want that area
1:27:57 > 1:28:00free so that women can walk in without having to walk past a crowd
1:28:00 > 1:28:06and without having to walk past one person.Victoria, we have had
1:28:06 > 1:28:09discussions with both groups and we have come, we have tried to get an
1:28:09 > 1:28:13agreement, we have tried to get them to agree not to do what they're
1:28:13 > 1:28:20doing at the moment, but we have come to a deadlock... You have
1:28:20 > 1:28:24stated Clare, that you will continue to do what you do and operate in the
1:28:24 > 1:28:28way thaw do.We have had no discussion with the council about
1:28:28 > 1:28:31stopping any particular behaviours, you have never put to us particular
1:28:31 > 1:28:34behaviours and asked us to stop those particular behaviours.
1:28:34 > 1:28:38Behaviours have been discussed with us, but we have never been told if
1:28:38 > 1:28:43you stop doing this or stop doing that the vigil will continue.You
1:28:43 > 1:28:46never told the Select Committee that you would change your behaviour.
1:28:46 > 1:28:49Clare is in denial, we have witnessed this behaviour. We have
1:28:49 > 1:28:55been told it's going to continue no matter what. So we have no choice,
1:28:55 > 1:29:00but to look at the report that's come to committee tonight and
1:29:00 > 1:29:04consider consulting with residents, all stakeholders including Clare's
1:29:04 > 1:29:09group and every other group to see if a PSPO is the right way forward.
1:29:09 > 1:29:13When John se saying we are blocking the gates and shutting the gates on
1:29:13 > 1:29:18women, why are they not bringing forward CCTV images of this. This is
1:29:18 > 1:29:22where their CCTV camera is on, the path on the gate, not a single image
1:29:22 > 1:29:26of us doing this has emerged, why? Because it doesn't happen.
1:29:26 > 1:29:29I will read some messages and then I want to ask you about the
1:29:29 > 1:29:33significance of your work in your view and then I'm going to talk to a
1:29:33 > 1:29:39woman who has used the clinic. Trevor tweets, "The anti-abortion
1:29:39 > 1:29:42terrorists, who protest outside abortion clinics should be banned
1:29:42 > 1:29:46from protesting within 500 meters of the gates of a clinic. They have no
1:29:46 > 1:29:50right to push their religious and moral views on others seeking lawful
1:29:50 > 1:29:55treatment." A tweet from this viewer, "What's wrong with asking a
1:29:55 > 1:30:01woman who is having an abortion, not to have an abortion? Well, it is not
1:30:01 > 1:30:07your body for starters. " Another viewer, "I think it is disgusting
1:30:07 > 1:30:10these protesters put these women through such guilt. They have no
1:30:10 > 1:30:14idea what their personal situation is. Perhaps they can't support the
1:30:14 > 1:30:21child or a pregnancy would endanger the woman. Take a look at the story
1:30:21 > 1:30:28of the children being enshackled. They have no right to judge. "
1:30:28 > 1:30:38I was advised to I a bort my women at 20 weeks because my water has
1:30:38 > 1:30:49gone. She was born and is now three. I'm going to talk to one woman, who
1:30:49 > 1:30:52tally didn't use the Ealing clinic, used a different abortion clinic.
1:30:52 > 1:30:55Good morning, thank you very much for talking to us, I will call you
1:30:55 > 1:31:00Isobel. I know that's not your real name but thank you for talking to
1:31:00 > 1:31:04us, Isobel. Tell us of your experience of entering an abortion
1:31:04 > 1:31:10clinic?I had to go to the clinic twice. I was turned away the first
1:31:10 > 1:31:17time due to having to wait too long. So, suffered the abuse kind of twice
1:31:17 > 1:31:21and it was just torturous, really. I mean we are lucky enough to have
1:31:21 > 1:31:26this choice and be free to have this choice in the UK. And you should
1:31:26 > 1:31:33just be able to go and do what you feel is right at the time. These
1:31:33 > 1:31:37people standing outside, have no idea of who you are, where you come
1:31:37 > 1:31:39from, what your scenario is and how you have got into the situation.
1:31:39 > 1:31:45What abuse was it that you suffered, Isobel if I might ask, bearing in
1:31:45 > 1:31:53mind, it is a daytime audience.Of course. Just being called a murder.
1:31:53 > 1:31:57Quite graphic images being pushed into your face and, you know
1:31:57 > 1:32:04mentioned around.
1:32:04 > 1:32:07mentioned around. And mentions around God. In this country we have
1:32:07 > 1:32:12a free right to decide what we believe and don't believe in.What
1:32:12 > 1:32:16impact did it have on you?It made a very stressful time even more
1:32:16 > 1:32:19stressful. I don't know whether these people understand that it is
1:32:19 > 1:32:24still difficult to make a decision like that. So, you know the people
1:32:24 > 1:32:28in the clinics are specialised and trained to provide that support and,
1:32:28 > 1:32:32you know, that's very much welcomed but you don't kind of need harassing
1:32:32 > 1:32:36when you are going about your decision.Thank you very much
1:32:36 > 1:32:40Isobel. Thank you for coming on the programme. I appreciate T Lisa says
1:32:40 > 1:32:43"If I wanted counselling I wouldn't go and see someone on a street
1:32:43 > 1:32:49corner." Linda tweets "People, if they want an abortion should able to
1:32:49 > 1:32:51do so peacefully without intimidation." I really think people
1:32:51 > 1:32:56going in without knowing the details, they do not need
1:32:56 > 1:33:00self-opinionaited people outside giving crass info, concentrate on
1:33:00 > 1:33:06your own lives." Joanna says "Even if you are antiabortion you have no
1:33:06 > 1:33:10right to stress already harassed and vulnerable women." The decision
1:33:10 > 1:33:14tonight, what are you expecting?We will have to wait and see. There
1:33:14 > 1:33:19will be a debate but I hope that Cabinet will approve the
1:33:19 > 1:33:22consultation and we go ahead with the next stage because it is really
1:33:22 > 1:33:27important for us to protect women who are trying to access
1:33:27 > 1:33:31legally-available health care without intimidation and harass am.
1:33:31 > 1:33:34And briefly, Claire, the significance of your work?Well, we
1:33:34 > 1:33:39have seen hundreds of women over the years, we have seen over 1,000 women
1:33:39 > 1:33:43in London chose life for their children by being offered help or
1:33:43 > 1:33:46having a supportive person outside who felt they had no alternative.
1:33:46 > 1:33:50Over half of those women come from the Ealing centre and I think that
1:33:50 > 1:33:54if this is put in place it is an attempt by the clinic to people
1:33:54 > 1:33:59their profits high and very little care for women. Just look at NHS
1:33:59 > 1:34:07Choices... Reviews of Ma ri, e Stopes delinic online, I would ask
1:34:07 > 1:34:11you to look at that, and what choices they have.We have a nurse
1:34:11 > 1:34:17and manager from there, would you like to talk about that the lack of
1:34:17 > 1:34:20care and profits sn.s it is untru. All of the nurses that worked in the
1:34:20 > 1:34:24clinic they joined this line of work to support women. I think that's
1:34:24 > 1:34:28easy to understand. We have heard multiple accusations that our
1:34:28 > 1:34:33numbers have gone down because ofP good Counsel's presence outside the
1:34:33 > 1:34:37clinic, actually they have gone to other clinics, the total numbers
1:34:37 > 1:34:42across the UK haven't changed. The only impact this is having is
1:34:42 > 1:34:46delaying treatmentWhen someone approaches the clinic, they see a
1:34:46 > 1:34:50crowd, they don't want to pass, so they rebook.It is not true, figures
1:34:50 > 1:34:54are drochlingtIt means they have to receive treatment at a later
1:34:54 > 1:34:57gestation and it is safer to be treated earlier and you have more
1:34:57 > 1:35:04options. They are being rob of their choice and safety.These women are
1:35:04 > 1:35:06being helped. We are seeing them and their babies, they are not going
1:35:06 > 1:35:10elsewhere.Thank you. We'll report back on the programme tomorrow after
1:35:10 > 1:35:13the decision tonight. Thank you very much for coming on the programme.
1:35:13 > 1:35:17Still to come: The NHS is in crisis say many people. How do we solve the
1:35:17 > 1:35:21problems to safe guard the service for the future? We'll talk to
1:35:21 > 1:35:25various people who have their own solutions.
1:35:25 > 1:35:27Ministers from 20 counties are meeting in Canada
1:35:27 > 1:35:28to talk about curbing North Korea's nuclear programme.
1:35:28 > 1:35:31Later in the programme we'll be speaking an American
1:35:31 > 1:35:32author who has written about the North's
1:35:32 > 1:35:37nuclear capabilities.
1:35:37 > 1:35:40Time for the latest news, here's Reeta.
1:35:40 > 1:35:42Two parents have been arrested in California after police
1:35:42 > 1:35:45found they allegedly kept their 13 children captive at home, some
1:35:45 > 1:35:49of whom were shackled to their beds.
1:35:49 > 1:35:53The brothers and sisters - who were aged between two and 29 -
1:35:53 > 1:35:59were found by police after one girl escaped and alerted the authorities.
1:35:59 > 1:36:04Their parents have been charged with torture and child endangerment.
1:36:04 > 1:36:10Thousands of small businesses working for Carillion
1:36:10 > 1:36:13are waiting to find out if they'll be paid, following
1:36:13 > 1:36:14the collapse of the firm.
1:36:14 > 1:36:15Britain's second largest construction company -
1:36:15 > 1:36:18which also holds cleaning and catering contracts for schools,
1:36:18 > 1:36:26hospitals and prisons - went into liquidation yesterday
1:36:28 > 1:36:29with debts of around £1.5 billion.
1:36:29 > 1:36:31Within the past hour, the Archbishop of Canterbury has
1:36:31 > 1:36:33said the firm's collapse threatens workers, families
1:36:33 > 1:36:34and sub-contractors.
1:36:34 > 1:36:36The four-time Olympic champion gymnast, Simone Biles,
1:36:36 > 1:36:38has said she was sexually abused by the USA team
1:36:38 > 1:36:39doctor, Larry Nassar.
1:36:39 > 1:36:42In a tweet, Simone Biles described herself as one of many survivors -
1:36:42 > 1:36:47but said she had been reluctant to speak out until now.
1:36:47 > 1:36:50Larry Nassar was jailed last month for 60-years for possessing images
1:36:50 > 1:36:52of child sexual abuse - and is awaiting sentence
1:36:52 > 1:36:54for assaulting other athletes.
1:36:54 > 1:36:57Police say they are not treating the death of
1:36:57 > 1:36:59the Cranberries' singer, Dolores O'Riordan, as suspicious.
1:36:59 > 1:37:01The 46-year-old was found dead in a hotel in London's
1:37:01 > 1:37:05Park Lane yesterday.
1:37:05 > 1:37:13The Irish musician, originally from Limerick,
1:37:15 > 1:37:17led the band to international success in the 90s with singles
1:37:17 > 1:37:19including Linger and Zombie.
1:37:19 > 1:37:21MPs say the manufacturer, Whirlpool, hasn't done enough to deal
1:37:21 > 1:37:23with defective tumble dryers which have caused hundreds of fires.
1:37:23 > 1:37:26The Commons Business Committee said the response to the problem,
1:37:26 > 1:37:27discovered in 2015, had been woeful.
1:37:27 > 1:37:29It also said that it was "unacceptable" that more
1:37:29 > 1:37:31than one million potentially dangerous dryers were still being
1:37:31 > 1:37:34used in people's homes.
1:37:34 > 1:37:42The company insists its repair campaign has been successful.
1:37:46 > 1:37:49The controversial claim that the UK sends £350 million a week
1:37:49 > 1:37:52to the EU has been described as a "gross underestimate" by the
1:37:52 > 1:37:53Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson.
1:37:53 > 1:37:56In an interview with the Guardian newspaper, Mr Johnson said Britain's
1:37:56 > 1:37:59contribution would rise to almost £440 million by the end of
1:37:59 > 1:38:00the post-Brexit transition period.
1:38:00 > 1:38:03Vote Leave's claim about the UK's contribution to the EU was hotly
1:38:03 > 1:38:04disputed during the EU referendum.
1:38:04 > 1:38:11That's a summary of the latest BBC News.
1:38:11 > 1:38:16This anonymous texter regarding the abortion clinic in Ealing "In my
1:38:16 > 1:38:19experience in Ealing they have not been physically abecausive or
1:38:19 > 1:38:22obstructive but their presence is inappropriate and makes the
1:38:22 > 1:38:24situation is whole lot more daunting."
1:38:24 > 1:38:25Here's some sport now with Hugh.
1:38:25 > 1:38:28Johanna Konta is through to the second round of the Australian Open.
1:38:28 > 1:38:31She's the ninth seed in Melbourne this year and beat Madison Brengle
1:38:31 > 1:38:36in straight sets in temperatures approaching 40 degrees.
1:38:36 > 1:38:39Defending champion Roger Federer had a straight sets win over former
1:38:39 > 1:38:44British player, Aljaz Bedene.
1:38:44 > 1:38:47Who is now back representing Slovenia.
1:38:47 > 1:38:51Manchester United have reduced Manchester City's lead at the top
1:38:51 > 1:38:55of the Premier League to 12 points after beating Stoke last night.
1:38:55 > 1:38:59They won 3-0 at Old Trafford with new Stoke boss Paul Lambert
1:38:59 > 1:39:03watching from the stands.
1:39:03 > 1:39:06And United could have a major signing in the next few days too.
1:39:06 > 1:39:07Manchester City have ended their interest
1:39:07 > 1:39:10in Alexis Sanchez.
1:39:10 > 1:39:13So United and now we understand Chelsea too
1:39:13 > 1:39:14are battling to sign
1:39:14 > 1:39:21the Chilean from Arsenal.
1:39:21 > 1:39:23The British brand, Burberry, has become the latest organisation
1:39:23 > 1:39:26to say it won't work with members of the fashion industry that
1:39:26 > 1:39:29have been found to have abused their position.
1:39:29 > 1:39:36It comes as two star photographers - Mario Testino, a favourite
1:39:36 > 1:39:38of the British Royal Family, and American Bruce Weber -
1:39:38 > 1:39:41both strenuously deny accusations made against them by a string
1:39:41 > 1:39:43of models and assistants in the New York Times.
1:39:43 > 1:39:45Let's talk to our reporter, Chichi Izundu.
1:39:45 > 1:39:52What are Burberry saying? . They have basically said they will now no
1:39:52 > 1:39:56longer commission future projects with marrow test teeniour and Bruce
1:39:56 > 1:40:00Weber. It is not just them. Other companies have also said they will
1:40:00 > 1:40:08not be working with them in the future.
1:40:08 > 1:40:13future. As Saud Said Mario Testino and Bruce Weber, strenuously deny
1:40:13 > 1:40:18this. Next week is Paris men's fashion week, so it'll be
1:40:18 > 1:40:23interesting to see if there are any further developments in the fashion
1:40:23 > 1:40:28world, who will no longer work with people who they say av abused their
1:40:28 > 1:40:32position of power. What were the accusations that they deny?Some
1:40:32 > 1:40:35include encouraging male models to get nude when it wasn't part of the
1:40:35 > 1:40:45shoot. Being quite sexually suggestive, in some cases. Yes,
1:40:45 > 1:40:49Stuart whiteman, Burberry, Michael Corrs, raffle Lauren, says they will
1:40:49 > 1:40:53not work with anyone, including Con, de Nast saying they will no longer
1:40:53 > 1:40:56work with people they believe have abused their position of power in
1:40:56 > 1:41:06the world of fashion.As I said, Bruce Weber deny the claims. Mario,
1:41:06 > 1:41:10Testono's lawyers say his accuser cannot be considered reliable
1:41:10 > 1:41:12sources.
1:41:12 > 1:41:15This morning we've been asking how we get to grips
1:41:15 > 1:41:17with the huge pressure the NHS is under this winter.
1:41:17 > 1:41:20Over the last few weeks you'll have seen reports of over-crowded A&Es,
1:41:20 > 1:41:22a lack of beds and queues of ambulances stacked up outside
1:41:22 > 1:41:24unable to hand over their patients.
1:41:24 > 1:41:27On top of that as the NHS approaches its 70th birthday,
1:41:27 > 1:41:29it's having to deal with a growing and ageing population adding more
1:41:29 > 1:41:30pressure to its services.
1:41:30 > 1:41:33Last week on this programme Conservative MP Nick Boles argued
1:41:33 > 1:41:35that money from national insurance should go to the NHS.
1:41:35 > 1:41:39I believe that if people knew that when they looked at their pay slip
1:41:39 > 1:41:44and that there was a line that said national health insurance, if they
1:41:44 > 1:41:47knew that that one legally could only go to support national health
1:41:47 > 1:41:51care and social care, that they would be willing to pay a bit more.
1:41:51 > 1:41:54And it's not going to have to be an enormous amount more, but there are
1:41:54 > 1:41:56going to have to be some increases.
1:41:56 > 1:41:58So how should the NHS be funded?
1:41:58 > 1:42:00Let's talk to the former Chair of the Royal College
1:42:00 > 1:42:02of General Practitioners, Dr Clare Gerada,
1:42:02 > 1:42:04she is also a member of the Liberal Democrats.
1:42:04 > 1:42:06Stephen Dorrell is chair of the NHS Confederation
1:42:06 > 1:42:09which represents providers and commissioners.
1:42:09 > 1:42:12He's also a former Conservative Health Secretary.
1:42:12 > 1:42:15And Alex Hitchcock who is from the think-tank Reform
1:42:15 > 1:42:18which looks at the NHS amongst other issues and is not alligned
1:42:18 > 1:42:20to any political party.
1:42:20 > 1:42:25Welcome all of you. So, the funding of NHS and social care. What is your
1:42:25 > 1:42:37solution?Well, clearly we do need more money. And
1:42:37 > 1:42:39more money. And to have a hypothicated, tax, ringfenced seems
1:42:39 > 1:42:44a sensible way forward. Also, I think we should be looking at 1% for
1:42:44 > 1:42:47income tax, to look and urgently address the funding crisis. Money
1:42:47 > 1:42:52isn't the whole answer, of course, you have very, very expensive health
1:42:52 > 1:42:54systems, such as the American health system which doesn't deliver what it
1:42:54 > 1:42:58should. It is clearly not just money. We need the investment in the
1:42:58 > 1:43:01right places and we need investment in out of hospital care, community
1:43:01 > 1:43:05care, primary care, so we can keep people as healthy as possible for as
1:43:05 > 1:43:08long as possible before we put them into very expensive beds.We
1:43:08 > 1:43:13will,back to some of the other issues you raised there. -- we will
1:43:13 > 1:43:18come back. Stephen Dorrell, former Secretary of State for Health now
1:43:18 > 1:43:21NHS scone confederation Chairman. Your solution?Well, first of all,
1:43:21 > 1:43:25it is true that health and public services generally need more money
1:43:25 > 1:43:28in the long-term, in order to deliver the improving public
1:43:28 > 1:43:32services that we all want to see. Health is part of that. Part of the
1:43:32 > 1:43:37problem, I think, as Claire said, is seeing health separate from social
1:43:37 > 1:43:42care, from social housing, and the full range of social houses. That's
1:43:42 > 1:43:46why, within the Confederation what we have done, is to set up in
1:43:46 > 1:43:50partnership with the institute of fiscal stud yans the health
1:43:50 > 1:43:53foundation, instead of guessing how much money public services need for
1:43:53 > 1:43:57the future, a serious analysis of demand trends, so we can look and
1:43:57 > 1:44:01see what the rising elderly population, what the implications of
1:44:01 > 1:44:07that are and then we can plan for it as a country.Just a quick side
1:44:07 > 1:44:12issue but really important. Should the NHS they, rather than local
1:44:12 > 1:44:14councils be in charge of commissioning social care? Snipe'
1:44:14 > 1:44:17not in favour of imagining it is all the responsibility of the health
1:44:17 > 1:44:21service. I think health policy actually ought to be about enabling
1:44:21 > 1:44:25us to lead, not merely longer lives but also healthier and more
1:44:25 > 1:44:30enjoyable lives. It is about housing, jobs, public spaces as well
1:44:30 > 1:44:35as the treatment of disease in the health service. OK. Alex hitch corks
1:44:35 > 1:44:43your suggestion?So, I think -- Alex Hitchcock. Stephen is right with the
1:44:43 > 1:44:47about the support of services more money is needed. The NHS is
1:44:47 > 1:44:50well-funded. Snr less than other European
1:44:50 > 1:44:57countries. If you include social cakes 9.9% of GDP is spent on health
1:44:57 > 1:45:01and social care, above the EU average. We need to look at how care
1:45:01 > 1:45:04is delivered. Currently too much is delivered in hospitals when it can
1:45:04 > 1:45:07be delivered in GPs, more efficient and more effective and as Claire
1:45:07 > 1:45:10will be able to testify but also look at social care as well, to
1:45:10 > 1:45:15ensure we can get people out of hospital who don't need to be there.
1:45:15 > 1:45:21But if you cut £6 billion from social care which the coalition and
1:45:21 > 1:45:24Conservative skefsh Government has in the last seven years, you can see
1:45:24 > 1:45:27why hospitals are fullCertainly so. That points to the challenge of
1:45:27 > 1:45:30spending the money in the correct places. You have had those cuts.
1:45:30 > 1:45:35North cutting in the first place by quite so much.But at the same time,
1:45:35 > 1:45:37the NHS's funding has been ringfenced and hospital funding
1:45:37 > 1:45:42going up.Of course, ringfenced. We know that but if you are at the same
1:45:42 > 1:45:45time cutting # billion from social care, it is going to have a knock-on
1:45:45 > 1:45:49effect, is it not?
1:45:49 > 1:45:53We all know there is a rising population of elderly people, we
1:45:53 > 1:45:57should celebrate that. That's not a problem, that's because we can look
1:45:57 > 1:46:01forward to longer lives. Surely the policy challenge is to make the
1:46:01 > 1:46:06longer lives more enjoyable and to keep people out of hospital and even
1:46:06 > 1:46:11out of GP surgeries so we can enjoy life. We need to access when we're
1:46:11 > 1:46:17ill, but we should be looking for opportunities to support people to
1:46:17 > 1:46:27enjoy their lives and not rely on treatment of avoidable illness.
1:46:27 > 1:46:30treatment of avoidable illness.The amount is below the average EU
1:46:30 > 1:46:33allocation...The EU average includes a lot of very poor
1:46:33 > 1:46:37countries by our standards.Yes, it also includes, there is a lot of
1:46:37 > 1:46:41care that's paid for separately outside that, it is a complicated
1:46:41 > 1:46:44issue, but nevertheless I think we need more money. I do think we need
1:46:44 > 1:46:49to be looking at how we use the money as we've heard, it is better
1:46:49 > 1:46:52to fund care outside hospital, nevertheless, we don't have enough
1:46:52 > 1:46:59beds. I think we have over Christmas 98% bed occupancy is not on in a
1:46:59 > 1:47:03modern health care system. We need to be investing, as the others have
1:47:03 > 1:47:06said, in keeping people safe in their homes and I wonder how many
1:47:06 > 1:47:10people, how many people of my generation are looking at their
1:47:10 > 1:47:15homes and saying, "Well, where is the trip hazard? Have I got a bed
1:47:15 > 1:47:21that's suitable as I grow older? Can I put a wheelchair between my
1:47:21 > 1:47:26doors?"Do think of you support charging for services, either going
1:47:26 > 1:47:30to see the GP or whatever it might be?No, that's very difficult. That
1:47:30 > 1:47:33points to more money being put into the system whereas we would argue
1:47:33 > 1:47:37that shouldn't be the case. It is difficult to be able to value what
1:47:37 > 1:47:41is GP appointment is worth before you know, how much is a lump worth,
1:47:41 > 1:47:50if I find it in the morning is it worth going to the GP or not?No, I
1:47:50 > 1:47:53am not in favour of producing additional charges within the Health
1:47:53 > 1:47:57Service, what I am in favour of doing as recognising as our society
1:47:57 > 1:48:01gets richer, as the economy grows all the evidence is that we shall
1:48:01 > 1:48:05devote, we shall want to devote, as citizens, a rising share of that
1:48:05 > 1:48:10income to the delivery of improving public services to enable us to
1:48:10 > 1:48:15enjoy our longer lives.Briefly... You had a call of somebody who went
1:48:15 > 1:48:21in for Calpol. The price of that Calpol if somebody paid for it over
1:48:21 > 1:48:26the counter, probably under £1. The real cost now of that patient going
1:48:26 > 1:48:31in and using a GP, might be £30 to £40, we need a sensible discussion
1:48:31 > 1:48:35for the public. This is our money, our services and our choices, but I
1:48:35 > 1:48:39do think we need to be looking at where services should be free and
1:48:39 > 1:48:47where we should be expected to pay for ourselves.Pay extra.Yeah.We
1:48:47 > 1:48:52know what you meant.
1:48:52 > 1:48:54Foreign ministers from around 20 countries are meeting
1:48:54 > 1:48:56in Canada to discuss how to curb North Korea's nuclear programme.
1:48:56 > 1:48:57China will not be there.
1:48:57 > 1:49:00It says the meeting will not help resolve tensions.
1:49:00 > 1:49:02Last year saw fiery exchanges between US president Donald Trump
1:49:02 > 1:49:08and North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un, but 2018 has seen a thaw
1:49:08 > 1:49:10in relations, resulting in high-level talks between the North
1:49:10 > 1:49:11and South last week.
1:49:11 > 1:49:16But how much of that thaw is due to Donald Trump's
1:49:16 > 1:49:21heavy-handed diplomacy?
1:49:21 > 1:49:24Let's talk to Greg Scarlatoiu in Washington.
1:49:24 > 1:49:25He's the Executive Director
1:49:25 > 1:49:27of the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea.
1:49:27 > 1:49:29Gordon Chang an American author who's written
1:49:29 > 1:49:30about the North's nuclear capabilities.
1:49:30 > 1:49:34Thank you very much for talking to us. How significant is this big
1:49:34 > 1:49:40meeting in Canada, Greg?This meeting is supposed to be about a
1:49:40 > 1:49:45ramping up pressure and sanctions and clearly, this is the reason why
1:49:45 > 1:49:52China is not present. Again, it's a meeting meant to strengthen the
1:49:52 > 1:49:58economic pressure exercised against the North Korean regime in order to
1:49:58 > 1:50:03achieve the strategic objective of naving North Korea suspend and give
1:50:03 > 1:50:08up its nuclear programme and its missile programme.
1:50:08 > 1:50:11Gordon, any decision made by foreign ministers today isn't much use,
1:50:11 > 1:50:15without the backing of China, is that right?Well, you know, I think
1:50:15 > 1:50:19that China should not be there and the reason is this is supposed to be
1:50:19 > 1:50:24a meeting of like minded nations and these are nations want to increase
1:50:24 > 1:50:29pressure on North Korea. China has been busting sanctions continually
1:50:29 > 1:50:34throughout 2017 and it is about a bad actor so I don't think China
1:50:34 > 1:50:39should be in the room and nor should Russia. Yes, China and Russia are
1:50:39 > 1:50:42consequential, but that doesn't mean that they should be part of the
1:50:42 > 1:50:47solution at this point. We can get China to co-operate, but only if we
1:50:47 > 1:50:52put immense pressure on Beijing and so, that's what this talk about
1:50:52 > 1:50:57today putting pressure on China, on Russia and on North Korea.How do
1:50:57 > 1:51:05you assess Greg, the nuclear threat from North Korea this year?Clearly,
1:51:05 > 1:51:12under the Kim Jong-un regime, North Korea has dramatically accelerated
1:51:12 > 1:51:17both its nuclear and its long-range ballistic missile programme. Four
1:51:17 > 1:51:21out of six nuclear tests by North Korea have happened on Kim Jong-un's
1:51:21 > 1:51:28watch. If one looks at statements, public statements, by senior
1:51:28 > 1:51:33officials, I think we are pretty close to acknowledging that North
1:51:33 > 1:51:37Korea has reached one of its fundamental strategic objectives
1:51:37 > 1:51:43which is being capable of having a long-range ballistic missile capable
1:51:43 > 1:51:46of delivering a nuclear warhead to the Continental United States.
1:51:46 > 1:51:52Gordon, do you think that now sanctions are biting, North Korea
1:51:52 > 1:51:55might be willing to put their nuclear programme on the table when
1:51:55 > 1:52:00it comes to negotiations in the future?Sanctions, indeed are biting
1:52:00 > 1:52:04and there is a lot of evidence of that including koupg's New Year's
1:52:04 > 1:52:09address. He talked about sanctions being a threat to the regime. We
1:52:09 > 1:52:14have seen for instance officials in Pyongyang
1:52:14 > 1:52:14have seen for instance officials in have seen for instance officials in
1:52:14 > 1:52:16Pyongyang are not getting their rations through the distribution
1:52:16 > 1:52:26system. The soldier who defected in December had uncooked kernels of
1:52:26 > 1:52:34corn. Those most favoured a scroujing for food. North Korea is
1:52:34 > 1:52:41not at the point to sit done Artalk about denuclearisation. That means
1:52:41 > 1:52:47that sanctions need to be ramped up. At some point, I think, that the
1:52:47 > 1:52:50regime, either Kim Jong-un or those around him are going to realise this
1:52:50 > 1:52:54they have no choice, but to give up, but the pressure has got to be much
1:52:54 > 1:53:06more than it is now. Thank you both. Thank you very much.
1:53:06 > 1:53:10In the last half an hour, we asked you to get in touch with your
1:53:10 > 1:53:13experiences of an abortion clinic in Ealing in West London. The council
1:53:13 > 1:53:20is meeting today to discuss whether to introduce a special order to stop
1:53:20 > 1:53:28any protesters holding vigils thousands Marie Stopes Clinic. Clare
1:53:28 > 1:53:32McCulloch told us their protests were not over the top. So, we asked
1:53:32 > 1:53:37you to get in touch and share your experiences. Louisa used the clinic
1:53:37 > 1:53:42in Ealing five years ago. Lisa is not her real and also used the same
1:53:42 > 1:53:49clinic. Hello both of you.Hello. Hi.Hi. Louisa, tell us your
1:53:49 > 1:53:57experience.Yes, I have been to the clinic. It was my first-term nation
1:53:57 > 1:54:05and as soon as I got there with my partner, I had a woman coming to me
1:54:05 > 1:54:11with very graphic images, with leaflets and then called me a
1:54:11 > 1:54:16murderer. I went inside the clinic crying already. I had lots of
1:54:16 > 1:54:21support inside the clinic and that created a big impact when I went
1:54:21 > 1:54:28home after I finished the ter minute nation. Those people made my
1:54:28 > 1:54:33experience worse than it already was. All I kept thinking was, "Am I
1:54:33 > 1:54:38a murderer?" I was doubting myself and I don't think those people
1:54:38 > 1:54:42should be in those places.Let me bring in Lisa, Lisa isn't her real
1:54:42 > 1:54:46name. You also used the same clinic and you were accompanying your
1:54:46 > 1:54:52daughter who had an abortion, Lisa, I understand. Tell us what happened.
1:54:52 > 1:54:56Well, my daughter fell pregnant or became pregnant when she was 17
1:54:56 > 1:55:03after a two month relationship with somebody. We had a very tearful
1:55:03 > 1:55:06exchange where she said that she really didn't feel that she wanted
1:55:06 > 1:55:11to go ahead with the pregnancy. I toll her that I would support her
1:55:11 > 1:55:16either way. She made up her mind and we went to Ealing. She was very
1:55:16 > 1:55:24young. She came across these people outside and I asked her again at
1:55:24 > 1:55:30that time whether she was really sure? We had the most fantastic care
1:55:30 > 1:55:36within the clinic. They actually asked her whether she was really
1:55:36 > 1:55:43sure because obviously she is young and advised her about things like
1:55:43 > 1:55:49possible guilt and all of that, but she went ahead and now she, you
1:55:49 > 1:55:55know, has a daughter of he own. She has a life. She has a PhD and I
1:55:55 > 1:55:59don't believe any of that would have happened if she had gone ahead with
1:55:59 > 1:56:04the pregnancy.What impact did the protesters outside have on you and
1:56:04 > 1:56:11your daughter?It made me very angry and her very sad.Why did it make
1:56:11 > 1:56:19you angry?Because I felt that they really should just back off. This is
1:56:19 > 1:56:24a very hard decision. Nobody has an abortion lightly in my view. It's a
1:56:24 > 1:56:31very hard decision for anybody to make. It's not easy. And so that
1:56:31 > 1:56:38made me angry. It just made her feel guilty, sad, you know, all the rest
1:56:38 > 1:56:43of it.Louisa, let me ask you, the council meets tonight to discuss the
1:56:43 > 1:56:47next step in whether to bring in the protection order, do you think they
1:56:47 > 1:56:55should?Yes, I think they should go ahead and those people shouldn't be
1:56:55 > 1:57:02allowed to be at the clinic. Making vulnerable people feel worse about
1:57:02 > 1:57:05everything. Everybody's situation is different. They don't know the
1:57:05 > 1:57:09reasons why someone is there. They shouldn't make people feel like
1:57:09 > 1:57:14that. It's wrong.You may have heard the representative from the Good
1:57:14 > 1:57:18Counsel Network say they do what she said, was they do offer some women
1:57:18 > 1:57:22support who look like they need support and in some cases, the woman
1:57:22 > 1:57:27changes her mind about having an abortion.Yes, it's true. Some women
1:57:27 > 1:57:31do change their mind, but it has to be the woman's decision. It's her
1:57:31 > 1:57:35body. It's her decision. She is in charge of her body. If she thinks it
1:57:35 > 1:57:39is not the right time to have a child, whatever circumstances she
1:57:39 > 1:57:44has, no one should try to change her mind. It is the woman's decision if
1:57:44 > 1:57:52she wants to go ahead or not. Lisa, finally, do you think any
1:57:52 > 1:57:56protest outside abortion clinics should be banned with the bringing
1:57:56 > 1:58:03in of a protection order, briefly? Briefly, applaud freedom of speech,
1:58:03 > 1:58:07but I think that circumstances regarding abortion are so varied
1:58:07 > 1:58:11that they should basically not be allowed.OK. Thank you both. I'm
1:58:11 > 1:58:14really grateful that you came on the programme. Thank you, Lisa. Thank
1:58:14 > 1:58:18you, Louisa. Thank you very much.
1:58:18 > 1:58:20On the programme tomorrow, how do achieve a better
1:58:20 > 1:58:23work life balance?
1:58:23 > 1:58:27Thank you for watching today. We're back tomorrow at 9am. Have a good
1:58:27 > 1:58:32day.