14/02/2018

0:00:00 > 0:00:07That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

0:00:07 > 0:00:16Happy Valentine's Day. This message says we are in our 75th year of

0:00:16 > 0:00:24marriage. I love it! And they say it wouldn't last!

0:00:24 > 0:00:25Do get in touch with us

0:00:25 > 0:00:27throughout the morning - use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE

0:00:27 > 0:00:30and If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

0:00:30 > 0:00:32Let's get some sport now with Hugh Ferris

0:00:32 > 0:00:35and we're going to talk Winter Olympics, where the curling

0:00:35 > 0:00:37has started for Team GB - how excited should we be?

0:00:37 > 0:00:44We should be. Many at my age will remember Rhona Martin and her team

0:00:44 > 0:00:50winning the first gold medal for curling in Salt Lake City. Since

0:00:50 > 0:00:53then the teams, both men's and women's, have been regular

0:00:53 > 0:00:58challengers in the Winter Olympics. The example four years ago it was a

0:00:58 > 0:01:09silver and a bronze in Sochi. Here's how it works. This is a winter sport

0:01:09 > 0:01:14that grips Great Britain. The aim is to get more of your stones near the

0:01:14 > 0:01:17middle of the target, getting there is more like the coldest game of

0:01:17 > 0:01:21chess. Always thinking a few moves ahead. Each team has four members.

0:01:21 > 0:01:29They deliver stones. Mattress can last up to three hours. The stones

0:01:29 > 0:01:35weigh 20 kilos. -- the matches can last up to three hours.

0:01:38 > 0:01:45To the action from Pyeongchang. Eve Muirhead is the skipper. It is her

0:01:45 > 0:01:48third games. She's hoping for another medal after a bronze four

0:01:48 > 0:01:58years ago. Russia were beaten 10-3 earlier. They ended it early such

0:01:58 > 0:02:02was the dominance of the British team. The next game will be against

0:02:02 > 0:02:06the USA. As far as the men are concerned, they won silver four

0:02:06 > 0:02:10years ago. It's a different team this time around. Paul Smith is the

0:02:10 > 0:02:15skipper. The team are all farmers. And they include two of Eve

0:02:15 > 0:02:23Muirhead's brothers. Next up for them it is much, much tougher,

0:02:23 > 0:02:25Canada, the world and Olympic

0:02:25 > 0:02:29champions, beating Team GB four years ago in Sochi to the gold

0:02:29 > 0:02:33medal. An update on that throughout the morning here on the BBC News

0:02:33 > 0:02:38Channel. And there was a terrible blow for

0:02:38 > 0:02:42Elise Christie yesterday in the speed skating.

0:02:42 > 0:02:45Terribly difficult time. Four years ago she was disqualified in each of

0:02:45 > 0:02:52her three events. A very emotional girl. We saw her cry in Sochi.

0:02:52 > 0:02:55Another emotional interview with tears down her face after crashing

0:02:55 > 0:03:02out of the 500 metres yesterday. She received lots of support. This is

0:03:02 > 0:03:07what she put on Twitter after crashing out yesterday.

0:03:16 > 0:03:21This is interesting from Instagram. One of her rivals, who touched Elise

0:03:21 > 0:03:24Christie before she went down and crashed into the side wall, put a

0:03:24 > 0:03:31picture on saying "Genuine happiness", and Elise Christie

0:03:31 > 0:03:37responded with "Actual heartbreak, but today is a new day". You can put

0:03:37 > 0:03:44your own context to this. Next up, if she is able to gather herself in

0:03:44 > 0:03:50time, it's the 1500 metres. Two more chances for her to make amends.

0:03:50 > 0:03:54And Hugh, who on earth is the Flying Tomato?

0:03:54 > 0:03:55Shaun White. He is a snowboarding Tomato?

0:03:55 > 0:03:58Shaun White. He is a snowboarding legend. He used to have massive long

0:03:58 > 0:04:03locks of red hair. He is 31 now. It is shorter now. That is what happens

0:04:03 > 0:04:08when you get into your 30s. This was him early on winning a third Olympic

0:04:08 > 0:04:14gold in the half pipe. He reclaim the title that he did not win in

0:04:14 > 0:04:19Sochi, surprisingly, four years ago. The American has won the 100th gold

0:04:19 > 0:04:23medal at the Winter Olympics for his country. He hasn't ruled out having

0:04:23 > 0:04:27another go in four years' time. But in the meantime he might try

0:04:27 > 0:04:30skateboarding at the next Summer Olympics because that is being

0:04:30 > 0:04:34introduced for the first time in Tokyo. He is a multitalented guy and

0:04:34 > 0:04:41one of the most decorated in Winter Olympics history.

0:04:41 > 0:04:42Good morning.

0:04:42 > 0:04:45Good morning.

0:04:45 > 0:04:47"How did you catch Down's Syndrome?"

0:04:47 > 0:04:48A genuine question

0:04:48 > 0:04:50asked by a benefits assessor who was working out how

0:04:50 > 0:04:54much disability benefit a claimant was entitled to.

0:04:54 > 0:04:57As a result of examples like that, there's a "pervasive lack of trust"

0:04:57 > 0:04:59amongst people with disabilities in the way their claims

0:04:59 > 0:05:00for welfare are assessed.

0:05:00 > 0:05:02That's what a group of MPs has found.

0:05:02 > 0:05:05Since 2013, 290,000 claims for Personal Independence Payments

0:05:05 > 0:05:07or Employment and Support Allowance which were initially rejected have

0:05:07 > 0:05:10gone on to be approved at appeal - that's a total of 6%

0:05:11 > 0:05:12of all those assessed.

0:05:12 > 0:05:20In a moment we'll talk to a whistleblower

0:05:20 > 0:05:23who used to be a benefits assessor but quit after five weeks.

0:05:23 > 0:05:26First, have a look at this.

0:05:28 > 0:05:31MPs have been looking at how PIP and ESA assessments

0:05:31 > 0:05:34and payments are being carried out.

0:05:34 > 0:05:38PIP stands for personal independence.

0:05:38 > 0:05:41It's for people with disabilities or long-term health problems.

0:05:41 > 0:05:46It's aimed at people between 16 and 64.

0:05:46 > 0:05:49PIP is a non-means tested benefit which means it doesn't matter how

0:05:49 > 0:05:52rich or poor you are, you're still eligible to claim it.

0:05:52 > 0:05:55It's to help with the living costs that accompany any condition.

0:05:55 > 0:05:59ESA is slightly different.

0:05:59 > 0:06:04It stands for earning and support allowance.

0:06:04 > 0:06:07It's a benefit you're paid if your ability to work is limited

0:06:07 > 0:06:08by a health or a disability.

0:06:08 > 0:06:11To be able to claim for ESA, you have to go through

0:06:11 > 0:06:12a medical assessment.

0:06:12 > 0:06:14If you qualify for ESA, be put into two groups,

0:06:14 > 0:06:17either a support group or a work-related activity group.

0:06:17 > 0:06:19The support group is for people judged unable to work.

0:06:19 > 0:06:26The work-related activity group is to help those

0:06:26 > 0:06:29who the government believes could work if they are given help.

0:06:29 > 0:06:32Last year, MPs put out a call for evidence to see if the payments

0:06:32 > 0:06:35and the companies who manage them had been doing a good job.

0:06:35 > 0:06:37Their report has found that for the majority of people

0:06:37 > 0:06:39the system runs smoothly but for a small minority,

0:06:39 > 0:06:41when things go wrong, they go very wrong.

0:06:41 > 0:06:44Many say the outcome of their assessments bore little

0:06:44 > 0:06:47relation to their circumstances, and that assessors were ignorant.

0:06:47 > 0:06:54One woman was allegedly denied benefits because her report said

0:06:54 > 0:06:56she walks her dog, but she says she can't walk and

0:06:57 > 0:06:58does not have a dog.

0:06:58 > 0:07:00Another person with Down's syndrome says they were asked

0:07:00 > 0:07:01when they caught it.

0:07:01 > 0:07:03After 4,000 submissions, MPs have now made

0:07:03 > 0:07:04recommendations for changes.

0:07:04 > 0:07:06They say the claim process should be made easier.

0:07:06 > 0:07:08For example, deaf people should be allowed to fill

0:07:08 > 0:07:09in their assessment by e-mail.

0:07:09 > 0:07:12They also say that decisions should be made more clear and open,

0:07:12 > 0:07:15and that claimants should be able to see what's written about them

0:07:15 > 0:07:18so they can understand how decisions are made.

0:07:18 > 0:07:24The Government says the changes need to be made to ensure every person

0:07:24 > 0:07:29feels they are treated fairly, with respect and dignity.

0:07:29 > 0:07:33Let's talk to a whistleblower - "Grace" - not her real name -

0:07:33 > 0:07:35who worked as a benefits assessor but quit after a few weeks

0:07:36 > 0:07:38because of the pressure.

0:07:38 > 0:07:41She's also a member of the Labour Party.

0:07:41 > 0:07:43Frank Field is here - he's the Labour chair of the work

0:07:43 > 0:07:46and pensions select committee - that's the group of Mps who've

0:07:46 > 0:07:47released today's repoort.

0:07:47 > 0:07:49At her home in Yorkshire is Cath Scarlett, who was

0:07:49 > 0:07:55so distrusting of the process she secretly filmed it,

0:07:56 > 0:08:03When she was being assessed.

0:08:03 > 0:08:05Her Twitter bio says she "fights for disabled

0:08:05 > 0:08:06people's rights in every

0:08:06 > 0:08:08waking mimnute, trade unionst, disability officer for the NUT

0:08:08 > 0:08:11and Labour", and in Salford is Martin Corr who's

0:08:11 > 0:08:12a probation officer, he's registered blind and applied

0:08:15 > 0:08:23for PIP in order to get technology on his phone.

0:08:23 > 0:08:25Grace.

0:08:25 > 0:08:27You worked for one of the companies

0:08:27 > 0:08:28that assess claimants.

0:08:28 > 0:08:31You trained for two weeks, you lasted in the job 5 wks.

0:08:31 > 0:08:32Why?

0:08:32 > 0:08:37I was disgusted with the system I was working in. It was institutional

0:08:37 > 0:08:42abuse to me, so I resigned and escalated my concerns to my nursing

0:08:42 > 0:08:48Council.What do you mean by institutional abuse?The system

0:08:48 > 0:08:55wasn't adequate. It didn't give claimants long enough to explain and

0:08:55 > 0:09:00express the type of discomfort, the type of pain that they were going

0:09:00 > 0:09:09through. The nurses were under a lot of stress, and I think it led to a

0:09:09 > 0:09:14lot of mistakes. I know copying and pasting goes on.What you mean?

0:09:14 > 0:09:21Nurses copying from Word documents onto assessment reports.So not

0:09:21 > 0:09:24genuinely filling in an assessment report having had an interview with

0:09:24 > 0:09:34the claimant?No.Why? To save time? Yes. Nurses are expected to assess

0:09:34 > 0:09:41for five client today. Over that, they get a £50 bonus.So if you see

0:09:41 > 0:09:48six or more clients today, you get an extra 50 quid?There is a lot of

0:09:48 > 0:09:53sickness, and I think retention is very difficult in this profession.

0:09:53 > 0:09:58They entice you with high wages, but management put you under so much

0:09:58 > 0:10:02stress that I think a lot of people leave, a lot of nurses leave.Is

0:10:02 > 0:10:09there a particular claim that sticks in your mind that you saw?I had a

0:10:09 > 0:10:16lady come to my service, dropped off by a landlord, incapable of making

0:10:16 > 0:10:25her own way there. In my mind, in my experience of over 20 years working

0:10:25 > 0:10:28with people with disabilities, and this lady had learning disabilities,

0:10:28 > 0:10:32in fact she said she went a special school, she gave me the name of the

0:10:32 > 0:10:36school that she went to. She couldn't read the letters that she

0:10:36 > 0:10:42brought with her, the evidence. She had over 50 pieces of evidence on a

0:10:42 > 0:10:47computer, which I was expected to read within half an hour. And

0:10:47 > 0:10:56clearly she had cognitive difficulties. When I made my report

0:10:56 > 0:10:59on my observations with my experience, it was sent back, and

0:10:59 > 0:11:02the auditor made me change and said there was no evidence that she had

0:11:02 > 0:11:07learning disabilities at all.So an auditor who I'd never met this

0:11:07 > 0:11:11person completely overruled you? Yes.Even though you have 20 years

0:11:11 > 0:11:16in this field, and you had spent time with this woman?It was

0:11:16 > 0:11:23disgraceful.Frank Field, what you think of that?What I was talking to

0:11:23 > 0:11:27grace earlier, what struck me was not only the humility that she has

0:11:27 > 0:11:35brought to this task, but she said which was stunning and terrifying,

0:11:35 > 0:11:39she had been 20 years a nurse, and she still felt that with all us

0:11:39 > 0:11:44experience, she was being asked to do a job with all the professional

0:11:44 > 0:11:48expertise that she was not really suited to do, and then you hear that

0:11:48 > 0:11:51when she does make a judgment to the very best of her ability, the

0:11:51 > 0:11:59auditor comes along and tells her to change it. And it is this period of

0:11:59 > 0:12:04growing uncertainty and lack of trust that the committee looked at,

0:12:04 > 0:12:09and we believe the only way of tackling that in the short run is

0:12:09 > 0:12:13for all these interviews to be recorded. Every organisation

0:12:13 > 0:12:21concerned with this says we should actually have these interviews, key

0:12:21 > 0:12:24interviews, recorded. The Government when it came to give evidence said

0:12:24 > 0:12:28we must consult on this, and we pointed out to the Government,

0:12:28 > 0:12:33everybody's agreed but you, so if you are going to do a consultation,

0:12:33 > 0:12:37it is you talking to yourself. Why don't you make this one bold move

0:12:37 > 0:12:41and say that people who are disabled don't have to struggle around with a

0:12:41 > 0:12:46recording machinery to be able to present that things were not as

0:12:46 > 0:12:52reported, but that it would just be an automatic right for applicants to

0:12:52 > 0:12:55ask for their interviews to be recorded.What you think of that

0:12:55 > 0:13:02idea, grace?Absolutely. And for the assessor to use that recording as

0:13:02 > 0:13:06well to write the report, sometimes reports are left open until the

0:13:06 > 0:13:11following day. It is totally against policy, but you can't get all the

0:13:11 > 0:13:16reports written at times.Is it possible you couldn't cope with the

0:13:16 > 0:13:19pressure? Because you know when you start a new job, it is hard, you

0:13:19 > 0:13:23were trying to get your head round things, it does feel a bit chaotic.

0:13:23 > 0:13:27Could that not be part of the reason why you felt stressed?No, I think

0:13:27 > 0:13:31it was bad management. Some of my colleagues were coming in at half

0:13:31 > 0:13:34past seven to finish reports and leaving at eight o'clock, and then

0:13:34 > 0:13:38management were asking them to take laptops home on their days off to

0:13:38 > 0:13:42complete report is.Let me read some messages here. An e-mail, I'm about

0:13:42 > 0:13:46claim benefits for the first time in about 25 years due to sickness, and

0:13:46 > 0:13:50I'm terrified about it. I know that I give them any excuse whatsoever to

0:13:50 > 0:13:56turn my claim down, they will, which mix my illness far worse. Frank

0:13:56 > 0:14:06says,

0:14:07 > 0:14:11PIP assessment awful, they sent a to physiotherapist assess my mental

0:14:11 > 0:14:18health. This person says, my level was dropped, and they said I refused

0:14:18 > 0:14:23an exam, but I wasn't offered one to refuse. Frank Field, you know what

0:14:23 > 0:14:30the Government say, you quote it in your report, which is, 83% of ESA

0:14:30 > 0:14:33claimants and 73% of PIP claimants so they're happy with overall

0:14:33 > 0:14:38experience.The report makes clear that most people don't object, and

0:14:38 > 0:14:43we hope that figure does reflect how people feel. But for example in

0:14:43 > 0:14:47Birkenhead on Friday, a constituent had been turned down. One of the

0:14:47 > 0:14:50questions was, could you go to your local shop? Being very honest, she

0:14:50 > 0:14:56said yes. What she didn't say, and nor was the question posed in a

0:14:56 > 0:15:01waiting courage to say, when I have been to the local shop, I am two

0:15:01 > 0:15:06days in bed trying to recover. The question was answered honestly but

0:15:06 > 0:15:11it didn't get anything like how disabled that person was.Let me

0:15:11 > 0:15:21bring in Katha and Martin. -- Cath and Martin. Cath, you filmed your

0:15:21 > 0:15:23assessment, but there was one thing that was odd. Tell the audience what

0:15:23 > 0:15:33that was.When I got the decision, they had downgraded my care

0:15:33 > 0:15:42component of it, saying that I could cook meals and I could get myself

0:15:42 > 0:15:50washed and dressed perfectly OK because I used a crutch in my right

0:15:50 > 0:15:55hand. It took me a long time to be able to get a copy of the report, I

0:15:55 > 0:16:01had to get my MP involved to be able to get a copy, and when I got it, it

0:16:01 > 0:16:05was full of inaccuracies, from beginning to end.And how did you

0:16:05 > 0:16:14react when you read it, then?I was completely taken aback. Within the

0:16:14 > 0:16:24first two minutes of the assessment, there were two... They can only be

0:16:24 > 0:16:33called liars. I was using crutches, and I walked very slowly, but they

0:16:33 > 0:16:38said I walked with a normal posture, I held the arms of my chair and

0:16:38 > 0:16:44lowered myself down slowly, and on the video it actually shows me

0:16:44 > 0:16:47walking sideways and very stooped on the crutches, so I was leaning on

0:16:47 > 0:16:53the very heavily, and I don't even touch the arms of the chair to sit

0:16:53 > 0:16:57down. I was trying to balance myself on the crutches, and I actually fell

0:16:57 > 0:17:02into the chair.So not accurate description, you say, of what

0:17:02 > 0:17:11actually happened?Absolutely not. There were a huge amount of similar

0:17:11 > 0:17:17things within the report.Let me bring in Martin. I can't hear you

0:17:17 > 0:17:24down here for some reason, I'm not sure why. Perfect!Hello?You have

0:17:24 > 0:17:29been registered blind since 1979 and you work as a probation officer. Why

0:17:29 > 0:17:34we are applying for PIP at all cause yellow prior to PIP, I had been in

0:17:34 > 0:17:37receipt of the Disability Living Allowance, its predecessor, and I

0:17:37 > 0:17:44was invited to apply for PIP. I use quite a lot of technology to allow

0:17:44 > 0:17:50me to function, primarily a la tonics to read text and magnify

0:17:50 > 0:17:54stuff, that sort of thing. And how was the assessment process for you

0:17:54 > 0:17:58as someone who is blind and never going to regain their site?It

0:17:58 > 0:18:06starts off that they send you a 16 page form, in no other format but

0:18:06 > 0:18:13paper. If you are visually impaired, you accept that as the norm in life.

0:18:13 > 0:18:18I was then assessed by a very nice lady. I didn't have to get out of my

0:18:18 > 0:18:23chair at all. But from that assessment she was able to establish

0:18:23 > 0:18:29that I could cook meals and I could wash, dress and could travel around

0:18:29 > 0:18:34safely. This was in spite of a letter from my consultant which

0:18:34 > 0:18:41basically said that this man has little or no vision and would be

0:18:41 > 0:18:46severely impacted to move around safely, that I needed a white stick

0:18:46 > 0:18:59to safely navigate even unfamiliar -- on familiar routes. The dossier

0:18:59 > 0:19:02that came back said that whilst they knew I had a white stick, they did

0:19:02 > 0:19:12not deem it to be an aid.I'm sorry? They did not deem it to be an aid.

0:19:12 > 0:19:16This is a parallel universe.There was lots of suggestions from my

0:19:16 > 0:19:20colleagues at work about what it actually was for!I bet you can't

0:19:20 > 0:19:27mention those on daytime television, as well!Yes, none of them can be

0:19:27 > 0:19:29broadcast! Let me read some more from the

0:19:29 > 0:19:34statement.

0:19:34 > 0:19:38Our aim is that every person feels they have been treated fairly and

0:19:38 > 0:19:45with dignity. We have commissioned five independent reviews of the work

0:19:45 > 0:19:48capability assessment, accepting more than over 100 recommendations,

0:19:48 > 0:19:56and two independent reviews of PIP assessments. We are exploring

0:19:56 > 0:20:01options around recordings to promote greater transparency and trust.It

0:20:01 > 0:20:07is good to hear about. But they could have announced today they are

0:20:07 > 0:20:10doing, as Grace was saying, the importance of recording these key

0:20:10 > 0:20:16interviews. But they would also need to accept there is a long-term

0:20:16 > 0:20:20problem. If you have somebody like Grace, who has 20 years of being a

0:20:20 > 0:20:26nurse, a highly skilled person, feels this is such a difficult task

0:20:26 > 0:20:33then you have problems, haven't you? Also, when they began this

0:20:33 > 0:20:37assessment procedure they appointed three private companies to do it.

0:20:37 > 0:20:41They believed that would attract many more private companies wanting

0:20:41 > 0:20:46to undertake the work. They haven't done that. None of the companies the

0:20:46 > 0:20:51Silva targets. And the Government has this key question, what do we do

0:20:51 > 0:20:57now when the market is setting us towel? -- none of the companies to

0:21:00 > 0:21:09-- none of the companies fulfill their targets.Unlikely to happen?

0:21:09 > 0:21:15It depends on the new Secretary of State, but it's sad the fits a

0:21:15 > 0:21:19pattern now. What were the high hopes, like with farming links out

0:21:19 > 0:21:25to the private sector, they don't always work.Most people are happy

0:21:25 > 0:21:29with their experience of being assessed. This is from the Weezer,

0:21:29 > 0:21:34my assessment was very thorough, I'm a wheelchair user, it lasted over an

0:21:34 > 0:21:39hour and it would have weeded out any scammers. -- this is from

0:21:39 > 0:21:44Louisa.That's great. I hope they are satisfied because otherwise even

0:21:44 > 0:21:49more drastic, isn't it? But the Government hasn't done a survey on

0:21:49 > 0:21:54those. We have just had this enquiry. We had more people write

0:21:54 > 0:21:59in, thousands, we've never had that before, of people who come as Grace

0:21:59 > 0:22:06as described, feeling they got a rough deal.Thank you. -- of people

0:22:06 > 0:22:08who, as Grace has described.

0:22:09 > 0:22:20Thank you all.

0:22:21 > 0:22:28Thank you for your time. I have many messages from you. I will read some

0:22:28 > 0:22:35more throughout the programme. Keep sending them in. Also coming up:

0:22:35 > 0:22:40Running your own business from home can be really tempting, but are some

0:22:40 > 0:22:44of the marketing schemes advertised too good to be true? We will find

0:22:44 > 0:22:48out how some are leaving some people in thousands of pounds of debt.

0:22:48 > 0:22:54The prescription drug Xanax is being sold illegally to children over

0:22:54 > 0:22:59social media. We are keen to hear from you if you have used the drug

0:22:59 > 0:23:05or you are worried your child is getting access to it somehow.

0:23:05 > 0:23:06Time for the latest news.

0:23:06 > 0:23:07Here's Carole Walker.

0:23:07 > 0:23:11The BBC News headlines this morning.

0:23:11 > 0:23:13The Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, will say in a speech

0:23:13 > 0:23:15later today that leaving the European Union is a cause

0:23:15 > 0:23:16for "hope, not fear".

0:23:16 > 0:23:19He'll attempt to offer reassurance to Remain voters who feel

0:23:19 > 0:23:21angry and alienated , but he'll also say that those

0:23:21 > 0:23:27who want to stay in the EU cannot and will not win the argument.

0:23:27 > 0:23:29The Labour MP Chuka Umunna, who supports the Open Britain

0:23:29 > 0:23:32campaign against a hard Brexit said Mr Johnson was "unqualified

0:23:32 > 0:23:42to preach about the perils of fear and betrayal".

0:23:43 > 0:23:44The jury at the trial of the former football

0:23:44 > 0:23:47coach Barry Bennell, who's been found guilty of dozens

0:23:47 > 0:23:48of sexual offences against boys, will continue deliberations

0:23:49 > 0:23:51on other charges today.

0:23:51 > 0:23:53Yesterday, the jury at Liverpool Crown Court returned

0:23:53 > 0:23:56guilty verdicts on 36 counts and asked for more time

0:23:56 > 0:23:57to consider seven more.

0:23:57 > 0:23:59Bennell, who appeared in court via videolink due to illness,

0:23:59 > 0:24:07declined to give evidence in his defence.

0:24:07 > 0:24:09Film star Minnie Driver has quit as an Oxfam ambassador

0:24:09 > 0:24:12following claims that staff working for the charity in disaster

0:24:12 > 0:24:13zones paid vulnerable local people for sex.

0:24:13 > 0:24:16The actress resigned after 20 years with the aid agency,

0:24:16 > 0:24:17saying in a statement that she was "horrified"

0:24:18 > 0:24:21by the allegations.

0:24:21 > 0:24:23Oxfam said it was "grateful" for Ms Driver's commitment,

0:24:23 > 0:24:25and that it was more determined than ever to learn

0:24:25 > 0:24:33from its mistakes.

0:24:33 > 0:24:36A committee of MPs has said there is a "pervasive lack of trust"

0:24:36 > 0:24:38among disabled people when it comes to how their welfare

0:24:38 > 0:24:39claims are assessed.

0:24:39 > 0:24:41The Commons' Work and Pensions committee said reports

0:24:41 > 0:24:43by private contractors were "riddled with errors."

0:24:43 > 0:24:44It recommends ministers take the service back

0:24:44 > 0:24:46"in house" when contracts end with private firms.

0:24:46 > 0:24:48The government says the majority of claimants are happy

0:24:48 > 0:24:57with their overall experience.

0:24:57 > 0:25:00Police in South Africa have arrested three people in raids

0:25:00 > 0:25:02targeting the wealthy Gupta family, who are close to the

0:25:02 > 0:25:03president, Jacob Zuma.

0:25:03 > 0:25:09Mr Zuma is under increasing pressure to resign over corruption claims.

0:25:09 > 0:25:11Both Mr Zuma and the Guptas deny the allegations.

0:25:11 > 0:25:14Mr Zuma is expected to respond later today to a formal request

0:25:14 > 0:25:20from the African National Congress to step down.

0:25:20 > 0:25:28That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

0:25:28 > 0:25:32Some more messages from you about the assessment of claiming certain

0:25:32 > 0:25:36welfare benefits. Derek says there are too many errors to excuse this

0:25:36 > 0:25:40system. No doubt the assessments are regulated. Disabled people are

0:25:40 > 0:25:43becoming numbers and are not treated as individuals and I find this

0:25:43 > 0:25:47disturbing. Robert says my wife has recently

0:25:47 > 0:25:54gone through her PIP assessment. She suffers from agoraphobia, severe

0:25:54 > 0:25:57social anxiety and borderline personality disorder. The lady was

0:25:57 > 0:26:02nice enough but an occupational therapist can hardly know about

0:26:02 > 0:26:07mental health issues my wife suffers with. The problem is not only the

0:26:07 > 0:26:10level of misinformation, deliberate or Paul Butler knowledge of a

0:26:10 > 0:26:13claimant's illness, but the very real and large amount of suffering

0:26:13 > 0:26:24put on the already extremely vulnerable patient. -- deliberate or

0:26:24 > 0:26:27poor background knowledge of a claimant. I don't see the point of

0:26:27 > 0:26:30putting a vulnerable person throughout this level of stress,

0:26:30 > 0:26:38without a doubt increasing suicidal behaviour, and to find out that the

0:26:38 > 0:26:43exact information is put on the form sent in.

0:26:43 > 0:26:47Here's some sport now.

0:26:47 > 0:26:51Success for the women's British curling team. Led by the skip Eve

0:26:51 > 0:26:54Muirhead, they had encumbrance of win over the Olympic athletes from

0:26:54 > 0:27:00Russia earlier this morning. The men also won their opening round-robin

0:27:00 > 0:27:04game against Switzerland. A third Olympic gold for Shaun White, known

0:27:04 > 0:27:11as the flying tomato. He reclaim the title he surprisingly did not win in

0:27:11 > 0:27:16Sochi in the snowboard half pipe. It was the 100th gold medal in history

0:27:16 > 0:27:23for the USA at the Winter Olympics. The Champions League returned. Spurs

0:27:23 > 0:27:32came from 2-0 down against Juventus interim to draw 2-2. -- in Turin.

0:27:32 > 0:27:37Also down to ten men and 2-1 behind, Kilmarnock beat Dundee in the

0:27:37 > 0:27:40Scottish premiership last night. Ian Wilson scoring at dramatic and

0:27:40 > 0:27:46impressive late winner. It was their seventh straight home win for

0:27:46 > 0:27:46Kilmarnock.

0:27:48 > 0:27:51Setting up a business from home can seem very tempting -

0:27:51 > 0:27:53but a BBC investigation has found that some of those involved

0:27:53 > 0:27:56in what's known as multi level marketing schemes are being left

0:27:56 > 0:27:57in thousands of pounds of debt.

0:27:57 > 0:27:59Multi-level marketing companies, or MLMs, have been compared

0:27:59 > 0:28:02by their critics to pyramid schemes - though the key difference

0:28:02 > 0:28:04is they're absolutely legal- essentially a company employs

0:28:04 > 0:28:06a network of independent salespeople who sell products directly

0:28:06 > 0:28:13to their friends and relatives.

0:28:13 > 0:28:16These salespeople earn income based on their personal sales,

0:28:16 > 0:28:18as well as the sales of those they've recruited to

0:28:18 > 0:28:20work for the company.

0:28:20 > 0:28:22But many people who dreamt of making thousands of pounds a month

0:28:22 > 0:28:32are instead ending up in debt.

0:28:34 > 0:28:37Women across the UK are speaking out against a £1 billion industry called

0:28:38 > 0:28:39multilevel marketing.

0:28:39 > 0:28:41I came across on Facebook this friend who had quit her job,

0:28:41 > 0:28:45and I knew she was earning about 6-7 grand a month and I just

0:28:45 > 0:28:49thought if she can do it, then I can do it as well.

0:28:49 > 0:28:5190% of it is full of greedy, vultureish behaviour.

0:28:51 > 0:28:53I've lost over £1000.

0:28:53 > 0:28:56I think it's very much like a cult.

0:28:56 > 0:28:58So, are some multilevel marketing companies selling a dream

0:28:58 > 0:29:01and letting some women down?

0:29:01 > 0:29:04This may be your opportunity to make a difference in your life.

0:29:04 > 0:29:06Not only does Valentus offered the best way to lost coffee

0:29:06 > 0:29:09on the market but we also give you an opportunity

0:29:09 > 0:29:15to earn income on it.

0:29:15 > 0:29:19-- Not only does Valentus offered the best weight loss coffee.

0:29:19 > 0:29:22You get the opportunity to build a strong, stable income at home.

0:29:22 > 0:29:24This is multilevel marketing, better known as the abbreviation MLM

0:29:25 > 0:29:26or network marketing.

0:29:26 > 0:29:28It has passionate supporters and outspoken critics.

0:29:28 > 0:29:31Up to 500,000 people in the UK are signed up.

0:29:31 > 0:29:32Firstly, let's explain what multilevel marketing is,

0:29:32 > 0:29:35using our fictional MLM company Fantabulousness, and a made

0:29:35 > 0:29:36up group of people.

0:29:36 > 0:29:38Fantabulousness make their own perfume called Live Your Best life

0:29:38 > 0:29:46and Positive Dreams.

0:29:46 > 0:29:48Fictional Amy is recruited by her old school friend

0:29:48 > 0:29:50Karen to join her team.

0:29:50 > 0:29:53So, Amy joins up by paying £100 for a starter kit and Karen makes

0:29:53 > 0:29:58money for recruiting Amy.

0:29:58 > 0:30:01Amy makes money by selling perfume to her own customers,

0:30:01 > 0:30:03like her sister Jane, and her best friend, Lily.

0:30:03 > 0:30:05And Karen gets a cut of those sales, too.

0:30:05 > 0:30:11Amy also builds a team.

0:30:11 > 0:30:13She makes money for recruiting her sister Jane and every time

0:30:13 > 0:30:18Jane sells some perfume, Amy gets a cut of that sale.

0:30:18 > 0:30:20And then Karen also gets money from the recruitment

0:30:20 > 0:30:22of Jane and her sales.

0:30:22 > 0:30:24The more people below you, the more selling,

0:30:24 > 0:30:26the more recruiting, the more money is

0:30:26 > 0:30:27going up the chain.

0:30:27 > 0:30:29Plus, people also get bonuses and make money through coaching.

0:30:29 > 0:30:36And there are some real-life success stories.

0:30:36 > 0:30:39I'm currently the number one position and female

0:30:43 > 0:30:46-- I'm currently the number one position female

0:30:46 > 0:30:49in the UK and I have a team of over 1800 people.

0:30:49 > 0:30:52Now, what that means for me is I've been able to enjoy an incredible

0:30:52 > 0:30:55income over the last 4.5 years, of 3.5 of those years,

0:30:55 > 0:30:58my company has had an intake of over £100,000 of business income.

0:30:58 > 0:31:00Network marketing to me is absolutely about

0:31:00 > 0:31:01more than just money.

0:31:01 > 0:31:04So, when I'd just started, I simply started so that I could be

0:31:04 > 0:31:05at home with my little boy.

0:31:05 > 0:31:08Natasha was successful in a company called Forever Living but she quit

0:31:08 > 0:31:11and she is now an outspoken critic of the whole industry.

0:31:11 > 0:31:12I had the best time.

0:31:12 > 0:31:13The best time.

0:31:13 > 0:31:18And I can't ever say any different.

0:31:18 > 0:31:20I've met some incredible friends, some amazing people.

0:31:21 > 0:31:23And we grew to a team of over 300.

0:31:23 > 0:31:27However, 3.5 years later, I've now decided to leave that industry.

0:31:27 > 0:31:30I started to notice negativity going on.

0:31:30 > 0:31:32There was little stories of this person being...

0:31:32 > 0:31:36Experiencing bullying or this person experiencing cheating.

0:31:36 > 0:31:4190% of it is full of greedy, vultureish behaviour.

0:31:41 > 0:31:44Unlike Natasha, Ellie is too nervous to speak out in public and so,

0:31:45 > 0:31:47she's played by an actor.

0:31:47 > 0:31:50They sell it to you that you will only work about 5-10 hours

0:31:50 > 0:31:53a week, and be able to earn a full-time income.

0:31:53 > 0:31:55So, I quit my job and committed to Forever.

0:31:55 > 0:31:59Think big, believe big, act big, and the results will be big.

0:31:59 > 0:32:01The idea of being able to control your success

0:32:01 > 0:32:06through positive thinking or mindset training is encouraged in some MLMs.

0:32:06 > 0:32:07No just means not right now.

0:32:07 > 0:32:10I think when you go into MLMs, it's very much like a cult.

0:32:10 > 0:32:17Everyone is buzzing each other up, and getting quite excited.

0:32:17 > 0:32:20I have got loads of business coming my way today.

0:32:20 > 0:32:22Ellie says she got into £10,000 worth of credit

0:32:22 > 0:32:24card debt in two years.

0:32:24 > 0:32:34The most I ever made in a month was £400.

0:32:35 > 0:32:38They are offering women a dream, they are offering them the chance,

0:32:38 > 0:32:41they say, to earn a lot of money for very little work while staying

0:32:41 > 0:32:43at home with their children.

0:32:43 > 0:32:47It's a lie.

0:32:47 > 0:32:50So, it seems to us again the way these companies are set up,

0:32:50 > 0:32:53the fact that for most sellers the only way really to make money

0:32:53 > 0:32:55is to recruit other sellers, that just seems to contain

0:32:55 > 0:32:57within itself too much exploitative potential.

0:32:57 > 0:32:59Mumsnet say there's been at least 20,000 posts and threads worried

0:32:59 > 0:33:01about multilevel marketing.

0:33:01 > 0:33:04We have also decided really as a result of looking into this

0:33:04 > 0:33:07issue recently that we're not going to accept any sort of kosher

0:33:07 > 0:33:09recruitment or other product advertising from MLM on mumsnet

0:33:09 > 0:33:17for the future, going forward.

0:33:17 > 0:33:21The people that you see paraded before you at rallies,

0:33:21 > 0:33:24on social media, in the Lifestyle videos, they are a tiny,

0:33:24 > 0:33:25tiny percentage.

0:33:25 > 0:33:28MLM companies do say on their website or in the terms

0:33:28 > 0:33:30and conditions something like income isn't guaranteed or not

0:33:30 > 0:33:32everyone is successful.

0:33:32 > 0:33:34The direct sales association, which is the trade body that

0:33:34 > 0:33:36represents some MLM companies told us that direct selling

0:33:36 > 0:33:39should never be viewed as a way to get rich quick,

0:33:39 > 0:33:46and, as with any form of work, it requires hard work and commitment.

0:33:46 > 0:33:48Forever Living told us all business owners are contractually required

0:33:48 > 0:33:54to comply fully with the DSA code of ethics.

0:33:54 > 0:33:56That includes not making misleading claims about possible income.

0:33:56 > 0:33:58Valentus say they are very transparent with all information

0:33:58 > 0:34:13to anyone who's interested in signing up.

0:34:13 > 0:34:15You've just got to get the right work ethic,

0:34:15 > 0:34:18the right goals set, and get the right skills and you are

0:34:18 > 0:34:20on a fast track to success.

0:34:20 > 0:34:23You know, they've got someone up on stage who's telling you that

0:34:23 > 0:34:25for years and years they struggled with their business, and,

0:34:25 > 0:34:27then, all of a sudden, they focused really hard,

0:34:27 > 0:34:30and suddenly they're earning 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 grand a month.

0:34:30 > 0:34:31And you're just sitting there thinking, yeah,

0:34:31 > 0:34:33that's going to be me!

0:34:33 > 0:34:35About 75% of people in multilevel marketing companies

0:34:35 > 0:34:42in the UK are women.

0:34:42 > 0:34:44I didn't want to pay out extortionate childcare fees,

0:34:44 > 0:34:45because it's gone up.

0:34:45 > 0:34:48It's hard because there's not much work around here, as it is.

0:34:48 > 0:34:50What are these companies appear to provide is genuine

0:34:50 > 0:34:54flexibility, working from home, choose your own hours.

0:34:54 > 0:34:56That can feel like a really attractive proposition

0:34:56 > 0:35:00to an awful lot of women.

0:35:00 > 0:35:03And, so, it feels really unfair if what you are actually offering

0:35:03 > 0:35:05is really about recruiting other people and stockpiling goods,

0:35:05 > 0:35:11and coming home and worrying about what's happening.

0:35:11 > 0:35:13I came out of it £2000 in debt.

0:35:13 > 0:35:15It's been an absolute struggle.

0:35:15 > 0:35:17I've had fallouts with my partner over it because I

0:35:17 > 0:35:18used his credit cards.

0:35:18 > 0:35:20To them, £1000 is nothing.

0:35:20 > 0:35:24But to me, it's everything.

0:35:24 > 0:35:29These women told us last August they'd lost significant amounts

0:35:29 > 0:35:31of money in a slimming coffee, multilevel marketing

0:35:31 > 0:35:34company called Valentus.

0:35:34 > 0:35:36They stopped selling when they heard that Trading Standards had started

0:35:36 > 0:35:40investigating another seller.

0:35:40 > 0:35:42We contacted Valentus and they admit that, at that point,

0:35:42 > 0:35:47the formulas and packaging did not comply with UK approved regulations.

0:35:47 > 0:35:50But say that, in fact, the products were for personal use

0:35:51 > 0:35:52only and not for resale.

0:35:52 > 0:35:55They say the products were being sold by women like these

0:35:55 > 0:35:57without Valentus' consent.

0:35:57 > 0:35:59I was on antidepressants.

0:35:59 > 0:36:04And I had to increase my dosage because I got distressed so much.

0:36:04 > 0:36:08I was losing so much money, I actually went behind my partner's

0:36:08 > 0:36:11back so me and him hadn't been getting on for a while because...

0:36:11 > 0:36:13Well, obviously, he's going to blame me.

0:36:13 > 0:36:20It was me that lost the money.

0:36:20 > 0:36:23Valentus also said they had in 90 days returns policy and that they've

0:36:23 > 0:36:27changed the formula ingredients and wording on packaging on two

0:36:27 > 0:36:30products and they are now compliant and selling in the UK.

0:36:30 > 0:36:32Now we've heard from women who say they've made lots of money,

0:36:32 > 0:36:34and some who say they've lost money.

0:36:34 > 0:36:39But what is the average amount people end up with?

0:36:39 > 0:36:41Well, the trade body, the Direct Sales Association,

0:36:41 > 0:36:44believes their own data.

0:36:44 > 0:36:51It works out at £412 per distributor in the UK each month.

0:36:51 > 0:36:53That's retail sales which doesn't mean their profit.

0:36:53 > 0:36:56We can't verify this.

0:36:56 > 0:36:58There are ways to give all the information that people need

0:36:58 > 0:37:01to make a really informed decision and then, if you read

0:37:01 > 0:37:03all that information, understand it, take it on board

0:37:03 > 0:37:07and you still want to work for that company, then I think that's a much

0:37:07 > 0:37:11more legitimate thing.

0:37:11 > 0:37:14But it feels at the moment as though people are essentially signing up

0:37:14 > 0:37:18on a bit of a false premise.

0:37:18 > 0:37:20Ellie told us she felt pressured to fulfil a minimum spend each

0:37:20 > 0:37:25month, which could be products or recruitment.

0:37:25 > 0:37:26The more they spend, the deeper they get into...

0:37:26 > 0:37:29Into the belief that success is just around the corner.

0:37:29 > 0:37:32So, I went to my upline and told them I was struggling and putting

0:37:32 > 0:37:34everything on the credit card.

0:37:34 > 0:37:36And they just told me it would pay off.

0:37:36 > 0:37:38And, at the time, I thought they were helping me out

0:37:38 > 0:37:40by encouraging me to continue.

0:37:40 > 0:37:42And that's not good for a relationship when you're

0:37:42 > 0:37:45constantly having to scrape by.

0:37:45 > 0:37:47I mean, if my parents knew how much debt I was in,

0:37:47 > 0:37:49I think they'd be mortified.

0:37:49 > 0:37:51Forever Living told us that business owners must only buy

0:37:51 > 0:37:58in quantities required to fulfil immediate sales needs.

0:37:58 > 0:38:00And are prohibited from placing orders until 75% of previous

0:38:00 > 0:38:02stock has been sold.

0:38:02 > 0:38:07Breaches may lead to termination of their agreement.

0:38:07 > 0:38:09One criticism of the MLM industry is whether there's too much

0:38:09 > 0:38:18of a focus on recruitment rather than sales.

0:38:18 > 0:38:20That is because pyramid schemes, which are illegal businesses,

0:38:20 > 0:38:22reward people for an ruling others into a business that offers

0:38:22 > 0:38:25a nonexistent or worthless product.

0:38:25 > 0:38:28There is no suggestion that any MLM companies featured in this film

0:38:29 > 0:38:33or otherwise are pyramid schemes.

0:38:33 > 0:38:35However, some people continue to believe that some MLM companies

0:38:35 > 0:38:40are structured similarly to pyramid schemes.

0:38:40 > 0:38:44These are pyramid schemes with a very, very superficial veneer

0:38:44 > 0:38:46of product to bring it just inside the law.

0:38:46 > 0:38:49I think the law can be tightened up.

0:38:49 > 0:38:51Joanna says she's heard it all before.

0:38:51 > 0:38:54And when you try and ask people what that even means,

0:38:54 > 0:38:56they just can't explain it.

0:38:56 > 0:38:59They always say the person at the top makes all the money.

0:38:59 > 0:39:02And it just makes no sense because if you look at a normal job,

0:39:02 > 0:39:06and a normal working environment, the person at the top gets

0:39:06 > 0:39:09all the money while the people at the bottom are doing

0:39:09 > 0:39:10all of the hard work.

0:39:10 > 0:39:11To me, that doesn't make sense.

0:39:11 > 0:39:15Because in network marketing it's the flip side.

0:39:15 > 0:39:18The people doing all the work and working hard can overtake

0:39:18 > 0:39:23the people that brought them in and earn more money than them.

0:39:23 > 0:39:25And it's not a pyramid scheme.

0:39:25 > 0:39:27The direct selling association told us they strongly oppose

0:39:27 > 0:39:33all forms of pyramid selling, which is illegal in the UK.

0:39:33 > 0:39:35In legitimate direct selling opportunities,

0:39:35 > 0:39:37earnings come from commission on sales of products.

0:39:37 > 0:39:40Valentus say there is no pressure to recruit and it's people's choice

0:39:40 > 0:39:44whether they choose to recruit or to sell.

0:39:44 > 0:39:46Natasha thinks a focus on recruitment can lead

0:39:46 > 0:39:49to people getting hurt.

0:39:49 > 0:39:52They recruit a lot of people.

0:39:52 > 0:39:54They fish through those people for ruthless people that

0:39:54 > 0:39:58are going to be like them that are going to mass recruit.

0:39:58 > 0:40:00And they throw the rest to one side.

0:40:00 > 0:40:03There needs to be accountability.

0:40:03 > 0:40:07Who's going to fix that lady's confidence that you've battered?

0:40:07 > 0:40:09It can be really emotionally damaging to somebody when they've

0:40:09 > 0:40:11had this amazing team around them and, suddenly,

0:40:11 > 0:40:16everyone's cut them off.

0:40:16 > 0:40:19You will immediately be shut out of all of that,

0:40:19 > 0:40:22all of those friends, all of those people that

0:40:22 > 0:40:24you loved and trusted, and who you really thought valued

0:40:24 > 0:40:26you for who you are.

0:40:26 > 0:40:28Valentus told us they provide support to every member

0:40:28 > 0:40:32through online training and upline support from company leaders.

0:40:32 > 0:40:39Forever Living say they provide mediation for any disagreements.

0:40:39 > 0:40:41We do not condone bullying of any description and we have clearly

0:40:41 > 0:40:43defined whistle-blowing and escalation procedures to deal

0:40:43 > 0:40:44with any such allegations.

0:40:47 > 0:40:50Any business owner found to have breached our policies will have

0:40:50 > 0:40:51their agreement terminated.

0:40:51 > 0:40:56Yes, there's probably going to be a backlash and negative opinion

0:40:56 > 0:40:59about what I've said but, do you know what, I think

0:40:59 > 0:41:01the majority of people will hear what I've said and,

0:41:01 > 0:41:03whether they speak out and agree with me not,

0:41:03 > 0:41:08they will agree with what I've said.

0:41:08 > 0:41:09More on this after half ten.

0:41:09 > 0:41:16If you've been involved in an MLM, do get in touch.

0:41:17 > 0:41:19We are looking for the couple that have been together the longest in

0:41:19 > 0:41:28Britain. I have a really nice to eat here from Alison. She says, they're

0:41:28 > 0:41:36with me. It had better be worth waiting for! Alison says trot-macro

0:41:36 > 0:41:55it is just loading. Happy Valentine's Day. We are in 57 years

0:41:55 > 0:41:59relationship, a mixed race relationship, marriage 52 years.

0:41:59 > 0:42:06Maybe the Queen is watching. Please get in touch, ma'am. Right.

0:42:06 > 0:42:08For many South Koreans, it was the first time they'd

0:42:08 > 0:42:10ever come face-to-face with their neighbours

0:42:10 > 0:42:11from the north.

0:42:11 > 0:42:13If you've watched any of the Winter Olympics, you'll know

0:42:13 > 0:42:15that the North Korean cheerleading team have been prominent

0:42:15 > 0:42:17every time the unified Korean team has performed.

0:42:17 > 0:42:19And they've made quite the impact.

0:42:19 > 0:42:21Some are suggesting that the Games might lead to an improvement

0:42:21 > 0:42:23in relations between North Korea and South Korea.

0:42:23 > 0:42:26The two bitterly divided countries are competing under a neutral flag

0:42:26 > 0:42:28at the Winter Games, which is in South Korea.

0:42:28 > 0:42:33The North Korean propoganda machine is huge but it's normally used

0:42:33 > 0:42:36within the country to big up the personal reputation of this guy,

0:42:36 > 0:42:39the country's leader, Kim Jong Un.

0:42:43 > 0:42:46But over the last few days, the machine's most colourful part

0:42:46 > 0:42:52has hit the big time.

0:42:52 > 0:42:55The North Koreans have sent 22 athletes to the Winter

0:42:55 > 0:43:00Games in South Korea.

0:43:00 > 0:43:02But they've sent a whopping 230-member cheer team.

0:43:02 > 0:43:06It's their first global appearance.

0:43:06 > 0:43:08They are making quite a show, and one that's

0:43:08 > 0:43:10pretty different from that of their country's

0:43:10 > 0:43:13militaristic leader.

0:43:13 > 0:43:16The cheerleaders are all in their 20s and 30s and have been

0:43:16 > 0:43:20trained from a young age.

0:43:20 > 0:43:23The women are sometimes referred to as Kim's Army Of Beauties.

0:43:23 > 0:43:27And, in fact, his wife was once part of the so-called cheer squad.

0:43:27 > 0:43:29They are chosen because of their looks, height,

0:43:29 > 0:43:32and family background.

0:43:32 > 0:43:34Loyalty to the cause is paramount, according to one defector,

0:43:34 > 0:43:39who said their job was to conquer with a smile.

0:43:39 > 0:43:44North and South Korea are bitterly divided.

0:43:44 > 0:43:47But the two nations are performing together at the games.

0:43:48 > 0:43:50The cheerleaders aren't having quite the desired effect

0:43:50 > 0:43:54on the medal table yet, though.

0:43:54 > 0:43:58The Korean women's hockey team lost 8-0 to Sweden.

0:43:58 > 0:44:00But the real question is whether these displays of unity

0:44:00 > 0:44:06could have a lasting impact outside the sporting arena.

0:44:06 > 0:44:09We can speak now to Dr Youngmi Kim, lecturer in Asian Studies

0:44:09 > 0:44:15at Edinburgh University and Patrick Winn, investigative

0:44:15 > 0:44:17journalist in South East Asia and has interviewed a North Korean

0:44:17 > 0:44:19defector who's a former cheerleader.

0:44:19 > 0:44:21Patrick, how do the cheerleaders fit into North Korea's

0:44:22 > 0:44:31propaganda machine?

0:44:34 > 0:44:37From a very young age, the machine will identify girls as young as

0:44:37 > 0:44:40eight or nine and indoctrinate them into the propaganda machine.

0:44:40 > 0:44:43Throughout their teenage years they will spend hours training to play

0:44:43 > 0:44:48instruments, to exult the regime through song, and some are steered

0:44:48 > 0:44:51into a cheerleading wing, and that is what you're seeing in South

0:44:51 > 0:44:57Korea.And Dr Youngmi Kim, in terms of the key diplomatic moves being

0:44:57 > 0:45:03made by the North Koreans at the games, they are all being made by

0:45:03 > 0:45:12women. Why?Can you hear me?I can now. Sorry, we keep forgetting to

0:45:12 > 0:45:17turn up your microphone, but we have done it now, thank you.I think this

0:45:17 > 0:45:24way, they mitigate the tension. It has increased so far in the past few

0:45:24 > 0:45:28months between the US and North Korea. They have been discussing who

0:45:28 > 0:45:34has the bigger button on their desk. But by sending this cheerleading

0:45:34 > 0:45:44team, it shows that there is a human being living in North Korea, have a

0:45:44 > 0:45:48similar lifestyle. In the west we know mostly about nuclear weapons

0:45:48 > 0:45:57programmes or famine, civil oppressions, but this is a kind of

0:45:57 > 0:46:03surprising, lots of people thing, they look similar to us, and they

0:46:03 > 0:46:10look very kind, and they are smiling, so this actually read

0:46:10 > 0:46:14humanised the image of North Korea. Do you think it works, then? The

0:46:14 > 0:46:19West seeing the cheerleaders?I think, yes.Patrick, you have

0:46:19 > 0:46:23written a piece recently about the way the North Korean government also

0:46:23 > 0:46:26sends women abroad to work in restaurants. How does that fit in

0:46:26 > 0:46:37with the cheerleading thing?

0:46:37 > 0:46:40So the same propaganda machine, they mostly stay in North Korea, but they

0:46:40 > 0:46:46don't have much commercial value there. Some of them are pulled away

0:46:46 > 0:46:51and sent off to restaurant, many in China but many here in Southeast

0:46:51 > 0:46:56Asia, the second-largest market. All of these restaurants have twirling,

0:46:56 > 0:46:58singing waitresses who perform in perfect synchronicity, a lot like

0:46:58 > 0:47:04the cheerleaders you are seeing at the Olympics. And it's a way for

0:47:04 > 0:47:07anyone, even Brits, Americans, so-called tormentors of the North

0:47:07 > 0:47:11Korean state, to go and have proximity to these women. And the

0:47:11 > 0:47:21money all goes back to Pyongyang. And Dr Youngmi comedy think these

0:47:21 > 0:47:33good relations between North and South will continue afterwards?

0:47:33 > 0:47:40Yes, I think that Kim Jo-yong has also been considered to help develop

0:47:40 > 0:47:47further peace on the peninsular.And do you think that by talking about

0:47:47 > 0:47:51them and avoiding talking about the other issues like the nuclear issue,

0:47:51 > 0:47:57we Erdei what Kim Jong Un would want?I think the North will not

0:47:57 > 0:48:02give up the nuclear programme, because they learned a lesson from

0:48:02 > 0:48:16Libya or Iraq, why would they give up? So they are playing the game,

0:48:16 > 0:48:19they will continue to have this programme at the same time as they

0:48:19 > 0:48:23want to open the window to have communication. That is why the South

0:48:23 > 0:48:26Korean government has a huge criticism from the opposition,

0:48:26 > 0:48:32because South Korea can be used by the North Korean Limerick as

0:48:32 > 0:48:41tactics, strategies, right? -- by the North Koreans as tactics of

0:48:41 > 0:48:46strategies. But at this stage there is no other way than talking about

0:48:46 > 0:48:51who has more Army capacity.It always comes down to talking it

0:48:51 > 0:48:55would seem in the end. Thank you very much for coming on our

0:48:55 > 0:48:59programme, Dr Youngmi Kim, lecturer in Asian studies at Edinburgh

0:48:59 > 0:49:05University, and Patrick Winn, journalist in Southeast Asia. News

0:49:05 > 0:49:07at ten o'clock, but before that the weather.

0:49:10 > 0:49:15Good morning. We had some Valentines love for the skies, but perhaps not

0:49:15 > 0:49:19as much towards the south-west. This was the view a short while ago in

0:49:19 > 0:49:23Cornwall, and it will be a familiar view for many by the time we finish

0:49:23 > 0:49:27today. Strong to gale force winds, outbreaks of rain across many areas,

0:49:27 > 0:49:32turning to snow across the higher ground of Wales, covering of the

0:49:32 > 0:49:36Peak District, perhaps ten centimetres or more across the

0:49:36 > 0:49:38Grampians and Highlands. Then temperatures rise later in the day.

0:49:38 > 0:49:42We will see some sunshine return towards Western Scotland and

0:49:42 > 0:49:47Northern Ireland, and temperatures may be into double figures. In

0:49:47 > 0:49:51eastern areas it will stay cold. Heavy bursts of rain working across

0:49:51 > 0:49:55any and Wales through this evening and overnight, that will clear, but

0:49:55 > 0:49:57tonight with starry skies for some and only a few showers in the north

0:49:57 > 0:50:01and west, temperatures will drop away, but after severe gales for

0:50:01 > 0:50:02some

0:50:02 > 0:50:06today, the wind will ease down a little but still keep those

0:50:06 > 0:50:13temperatures in the frost. A blustery but brighter day, a few

0:50:13 > 0:50:17showers around, sleet and snow in the West, mainly sleet and snow for

0:50:17 > 0:50:19Scotland and Northern Ireland, but temperatures not dropping away too

0:50:19 > 0:50:21much.

0:50:25 > 0:50:29Good morning. It is Valentine's Day, ten o'clock, I'm Victoria

0:50:29 > 0:50:33Derbyshire.

0:50:33 > 0:50:35Our top story today - Boris Johnson will try

0:50:35 > 0:50:37to reassure Remain voters that the UK's split from the EU

0:50:37 > 0:50:39is a cause for "hope not fear".

0:50:39 > 0:50:41But as a die-hard Brexiteer, is he the right messenger?

0:50:41 > 0:50:43I think he'll be all right.

0:50:43 > 0:50:44I think so.

0:50:44 > 0:50:45I think he'll do it.

0:50:45 > 0:50:47He's not the man to do that job, is he?

0:50:48 > 0:50:49He doesn't care about Remainers.

0:50:49 > 0:50:52It's like setting your house on fire and then trying to put

0:50:52 > 0:51:02the fire out yourself.

0:51:05 > 0:51:10We will get reaction from two MPs, one Labour, one Conservative on

0:51:10 > 0:51:15either side of the divide, let's see how they get on on Valentine's Day.

0:51:15 > 0:51:17A BBC Investigation has found that the prescription drug Xanax

0:51:17 > 0:51:20is being sold illegally to children on social media sites in the UK.

0:51:20 > 0:51:25Certain dealers are online. On social media, sometimes, it is

0:51:25 > 0:51:29possible now to go on Instagram and find a drug dealer.

0:51:29 > 0:51:35Really keen to hear from you this morning if you've uses

0:51:35 > 0:51:39Xanax or you're worried that your child is using it.

0:51:39 > 0:51:42And happy Valentines Day - we're looking for the couple who've been

0:51:42 > 0:51:44together the longest amongst our viewers.

0:51:44 > 0:51:4657 years together is our current winner, but let me know

0:51:46 > 0:51:54if you can beat that.

0:51:54 > 0:51:55Good morning.

0:51:55 > 0:51:57Here's Carole Walker in the BBC Newsroom

0:51:57 > 0:52:00with a summary of today's news.

0:52:00 > 0:52:02The Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, will say in a speech

0:52:02 > 0:52:04later today that leaving the European Union is a cause

0:52:04 > 0:52:06for "hope, not fear".

0:52:06 > 0:52:08He'll attempt to offer reassurance to Remain

0:52:08 > 0:52:10voters who feel alienated.

0:52:10 > 0:52:12But the government's efforts at reconciliation have angered

0:52:12 > 0:52:15the Labour MP Chuka Umunna, who supports the Open Britain

0:52:15 > 0:52:16campaign against a hard Brexit.

0:52:16 > 0:52:18He said Mr Johnson was "unqualified to preach about the perils

0:52:18 > 0:52:28of fear and betrayal".

0:52:28 > 0:52:30The jury at the trial of the former football

0:52:30 > 0:52:32coach Barry Bennell, who's been found guilty of dozens

0:52:32 > 0:52:34of sexual offences against boys, will continue deliberations

0:52:34 > 0:52:37on other charges today.

0:52:37 > 0:52:39Yesterday, the jury at Liverpool Crown Court returned

0:52:39 > 0:52:41guilty verdicts on 36 counts and asked for more time

0:52:41 > 0:52:42to consider seven more.

0:52:42 > 0:52:45Bennell, who appeared in court via videolink due to illness,

0:52:45 > 0:52:55declined to give evidence in his defence.

0:52:56 > 0:52:59Film star Minnie Driver has quit as an Oxfam ambassador

0:52:59 > 0:53:01following claims that staff working for the charity in disaster

0:53:01 > 0:53:03zones paid vulnerable local people for sex.

0:53:03 > 0:53:05The actress resigned after 20 years with the aid agency,

0:53:05 > 0:53:07saying in a statement that she was "horrified"

0:53:07 > 0:53:08by the allegations.

0:53:08 > 0:53:10Oxfam said it was "grateful" for Ms Driver's commitment,

0:53:10 > 0:53:13and that it was determined to learn from its mistakes.

0:53:13 > 0:53:14The International Development Secretary, Penny Mordaunt says

0:53:14 > 0:53:16that the culture that allowed this to happens needs

0:53:17 > 0:53:26to change quickly.

0:53:29 > 0:53:34I am writing to every single charity that receives aid to set out

0:53:34 > 0:53:37assurances about their safeguarding procedures. If our standards are not

0:53:37 > 0:53:43met then the British taxpayer will not continue to fund them. Unless

0:53:43 > 0:53:47you safeguard everyone in your organisation that comes into contact

0:53:47 > 0:53:50with you, including beneficiaries, staff and volunteers, we will not

0:53:50 > 0:53:52fund you.

0:53:52 > 0:53:55A committee of MPs has said there is a "pervasive lack

0:53:55 > 0:53:58of trust" among disabled people when it comes to how their welfare

0:53:58 > 0:53:59claims are assessed.

0:53:59 > 0:54:01The Commons' Work and Pensions committee said reports

0:54:01 > 0:54:02by private contractors were "riddled with errors."

0:54:02 > 0:54:04It recommends ministers take the service back

0:54:04 > 0:54:06"in house" when contracts end with private firms.

0:54:06 > 0:54:08The government says the majority of claimants are happy

0:54:08 > 0:54:14with their overall experience.

0:54:14 > 0:54:16Police in South Africa have raided properties belonging

0:54:16 > 0:54:18to allies of the president, Jacob Zuma - as pressure mounts

0:54:18 > 0:54:19on him to step down.

0:54:19 > 0:54:21The wealthy Gupta family have been accused

0:54:21 > 0:54:23of using their friendship with the President to promote

0:54:23 > 0:54:24their business interests.

0:54:24 > 0:54:26Both the President and the Guptas deny the allegations.

0:54:26 > 0:54:29Mr Zuma is expected to respond later today to a formal request

0:54:29 > 0:54:39from the African National Congress to step down.

0:54:43 > 0:54:47That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

0:54:47 > 0:54:54Thank you for your many messages about assessments before you are

0:54:54 > 0:54:57awarded personal independent payments, which has taken over from

0:54:57 > 0:55:01the disability living allowance. Billy says they are to reduce the

0:55:01 > 0:55:04benefits pay-outs, they have nothing to do with disability, they are not

0:55:04 > 0:55:08a wish to help. The Government want to just save money to pay for other

0:55:08 > 0:55:15stupid projects like the DUP pay-out.

0:55:15 > 0:55:20Another text, I have just had my employment and support allowance

0:55:20 > 0:55:23reinstated after ten months, thanks to the help of my MP. They claimed

0:55:23 > 0:55:28to have no record of my many letters which included letters from the pain

0:55:28 > 0:55:31clinic. If it wasn't for my family and friends I would have struggled

0:55:31 > 0:55:37to eat. Finally I can pay the huge debt I have incurred over this time.

0:55:37 > 0:55:43But why is this happening? Jean has e-mailed, I have a

0:55:43 > 0:55:46disability, but before that I work for the NHS as an occupational

0:55:46 > 0:55:49therapist. I can see what the problem lies. The assessments have

0:55:49 > 0:55:54problems because the professionals doing them are not trained or

0:55:54 > 0:55:58qualified to do them. They do unacceptable things like look at

0:55:58 > 0:56:06tripping people up or extrapolate a reason not to give an award. They

0:56:06 > 0:56:12cannot -- that's not true, Jean, a whistle-blower had over 20 years in

0:56:12 > 0:56:17nursing and was also an assessor. Her specialism was mental health.

0:56:17 > 0:56:21Had she just been asked to assess people with mental health abilities

0:56:21 > 0:56:25she would have been fine. But when somebody walked in with arthritis it

0:56:25 > 0:56:29was difficult for her. But there are people there with specialisms in

0:56:29 > 0:56:33arthritis and so forth. But you don't necessarily see the claimant

0:56:33 > 0:56:36relevant to your experience. That seems to be one of the issues. Thank

0:56:36 > 0:56:39you for your messages.

0:56:39 > 0:56:43Do get in touch with us

0:56:43 > 0:56:45throughout the morning - use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE

0:56:45 > 0:56:48and If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

0:56:48 > 0:56:49Here's some sport now.

0:56:49 > 0:56:55Hopes are high that the women's curling teams. The men's and women's

0:56:55 > 0:57:00teams have won medals. Eve Muirhead and her team won a medal in Saatchi

0:57:00 > 0:57:05four years ago. They entered the game early such was their dominance,

0:57:05 > 0:57:16beating Democrat opponents 10-3. -- in Sochi four years ago. The men's

0:57:16 > 0:57:22match against Switzerland had to go to another end. They will be going

0:57:22 > 0:57:25up against the defending champions, Canada.

0:57:25 > 0:57:28One of the superstars of winter sports claimed another gold medal.

0:57:28 > 0:57:33Snowboarder Shaun White. He was second going into the final run, but

0:57:33 > 0:57:38he nailed his display to come out on top. He is known as the flying

0:57:38 > 0:57:43tomato because of his famous red hair. His gold medal was the 100th

0:57:43 > 0:57:48won by the USA in Winter Olympic history.The beginning, in the

0:57:48 > 0:57:52sport, it wasn't cool to want to win. But you see it now, the guys

0:57:52 > 0:57:57are hungry, motivated, they want it. Even the qualifying was a final. I'm

0:57:57 > 0:58:01proud to come out on top today. I'm thankful for those guys because they

0:58:01 > 0:58:06pushed me to get to this point, to be able to do these kinds of runs.

0:58:06 > 0:58:11One more gold medal. After a thrilling final lap Erick Rowan

0:58:19 > 0:58:24and the weather has been causing more problems in Pyeongchang. The

0:58:24 > 0:58:28biathlon and women's slalom had to be cancelled. The Olympic Park was

0:58:28 > 0:58:31closed. Spectators were advised to stay away because of more strong

0:58:31 > 0:58:35winds. Premier League clubs are improving

0:58:35 > 0:58:40in Europe. Both Spurs and Manchester City had excellent results in their

0:58:40 > 0:58:45last 16 ties in the Champions League. Spurs were 2-0 down early in

0:58:45 > 0:58:50their match against Juventus. But Harry Kane, and a free kick from

0:58:50 > 0:58:53Christian Eriksen, and then a draw to take them to the second leg at

0:58:53 > 0:58:56Wembley next month. Those are the first goal is Juventus have conceded

0:58:56 > 0:59:08since November. Manchester City got the biggest away

0:59:08 > 0:59:11win for any English team in the knockout stages of the Champions

0:59:11 > 0:59:16League. Looking good for those two. More later.

0:59:16 > 0:59:17Thanks very much.

0:59:17 > 0:59:20Former football coach Barry Bennell is facing a fourth

0:59:20 > 0:59:22jail sentence after a jury convicted him of 36 counts

0:59:22 > 0:59:25of historical child sex abuse.

0:59:25 > 0:59:26The trial, though, is not over.

0:59:26 > 0:59:28Jury members are back today to consider verdicts on seven

0:59:28 > 0:59:29outstanding charges.

0:59:29 > 0:59:39Our reporter Jim Reed is here.

0:59:41 > 0:59:47This is a partial verdict. The jury will return today to consider their

0:59:47 > 0:59:50deliberations. We are still restricted on what we can and cannot

0:59:50 > 0:59:56report. We can tell you that Barry Bennell was found guilty on 36

0:59:56 > 0:59:59counts of child sexual abuse yesterday, that included indecent

0:59:59 > 1:00:08assault and a -- and rape charges. The judge had previously instructed

1:00:08 > 1:00:12the jury to return a not guilty verdicts on another three charges,

1:00:12 > 1:00:17which leaves seven outstanding. They will go back and think about and

1:00:17 > 1:00:20consider those today.Remind us of some of the things the jury has

1:00:20 > 1:00:25heard in this trial.The jury have been deliberating since last

1:00:25 > 1:00:29Thursday. In the trial the prosecution case was that Barry

1:00:29 > 1:00:34Bennell was a child molester, as they put it, on an industrial scale.

1:00:34 > 1:00:38He groomed not just his victims but the jury heard their families, as

1:00:38 > 1:00:43well. They were told about his links with two football clubs, Manchester

1:00:43 > 1:00:46City, where one of his victims described Barry Bennell as being

1:00:46 > 1:00:51treated like a god. And another team, Crewe Alexandra football club.

1:00:51 > 1:00:54Barry Bennell did not attend the trial in person but via video link

1:00:54 > 1:00:59from jail because of ill health. As these verdicts came in yesterday, it

1:00:59 > 1:01:03was a busy court room in Liverpool. Lots of the victims and alleged

1:01:03 > 1:01:06victim sitting in the courtroom were in tears as these camps and were

1:01:06 > 1:01:11read out. Barry Bennell himself could be seen on a video link

1:01:11 > 1:01:15shaking his head as these verdicts came through, muttering, but it

1:01:15 > 1:01:19could not really be heard by people in the court room.What happens

1:01:19 > 1:01:24today questioning of the jury will continue their deliberations. In

1:01:24 > 1:01:28about five minutes time. They will be looking at seven more charges,

1:01:28 > 1:01:32four involving one single alleged victim, three involving three other

1:01:32 > 1:01:37complainants. Barry Bennell denies those charges. His defence barrister

1:01:37 > 1:01:42made the case that he was a sitting target, she said, because of

1:01:42 > 1:01:47previous child six abuse charges and convictions, which he had against

1:01:47 > 1:01:52him in the 90s. And the latest one in 2015. This trial isn't over. It

1:01:52 > 1:02:00continues today. Thanks very much. The Foreign Secretary, Boris

1:02:00 > 1:02:05Johnson, will say that supporters Brexit must reach out to people who

1:02:05 > 1:02:09are angry and despairing about the UK leaving the European Union.

1:02:09 > 1:02:12In a speech in London, which is the first in a series

1:02:12 > 1:02:14of Brexit speeches being made by Cabinet ministers,

1:02:14 > 1:02:17he'll set out what he sees as the benefits of leaving the EU.

1:02:17 > 1:02:19He'll also insist that those who want to stop Brexit cannot

1:02:19 > 1:02:22and will not win the argument.

1:02:22 > 1:02:25So how will his attempt at unity go down with the general public?

1:02:25 > 1:02:33Our reporter Anna Collinson has been to find out.

1:02:33 > 1:02:42Could you sum up Boris Johnson in one word?Orangutan.Ridiculous.He

1:02:42 > 1:02:47is a neighbour of mine. I get on with him. I talked to him in the

1:02:47 > 1:02:54mornings.He seems a little bit crazy. Out of control.This morning

1:02:54 > 1:02:58he will be doing a speech about Brexit and trying to unite Remainers

1:02:58 > 1:03:06and levers. That is his plan. What do you think?I would really see him

1:03:06 > 1:03:13in that position, or things going as planned for him, because he doesn't

1:03:13 > 1:03:18have that sort of reputation.I think he will be all right. I think

1:03:18 > 1:03:23he will do it.He's not the man to do that job, is he? I don't think he

1:03:23 > 1:03:27cares about the Remainers.He is trying to reunite the two asides, is

1:03:27 > 1:03:32that not a positive thing?Totally, it's like sitting in the house on

1:03:32 > 1:03:38fire and then putting it out yourself, doing everything.

1:03:38 > 1:03:40Boris Johnson's attempt at a consensual speech looks set

1:03:40 > 1:03:44to be very different to his previous public utterings on Brexit.

1:04:02 > 1:04:06Today we are going to have a positive unpatriotic case. Back to

1:04:06 > 1:04:13project they are. If we don't leave and take back control, I believe

1:04:13 > 1:04:16that this Thursday could be our country's Independence Day.

1:04:16 > 1:04:22CHEERING

1:04:42 > 1:04:51The UK is going to be at the back of the queue.The crucial thing that

1:04:51 > 1:04:58America stands for is representative democracy, and the problem with the

1:04:58 > 1:05:03EU is that nobody knows in charge, nobody knows who is making these

1:05:03 > 1:05:08decisions, and as I say, I think it is very weird that the United States

1:05:08 > 1:05:11should be telling us to do something they wouldn't dream of doing in a

1:05:11 > 1:05:13million years themselves.

1:05:24 > 1:05:28There have been all salts of attempts in Europe to recreate the

1:05:28 > 1:05:35dream of the Roman Empire, and very often that has been done by force.

1:05:35 > 1:05:40The EU is different, it is trying to do it in a more bureaucratic way.

1:05:51 > 1:05:52Let's talk to two people who couldn't have

1:05:52 > 1:05:54more opposing views - Labour peer Lord Adonis,

1:05:54 > 1:05:57Andrew Adonis - who has turned his full attention

1:05:57 > 1:05:59to stopping Brexit, and Conservative MP John Redwood

1:05:59 > 1:06:02who voted to leave the EU, and thinks life outside

1:06:02 > 1:06:08the EU will be bright.

1:06:08 > 1:06:12Welcome to both of you. John Redwood, it is Valentine's Day.

1:06:12 > 1:06:16Boris Johnson, who was on the same side as you, would like you to reach

1:06:16 > 1:06:27out to remain a like Lauda Done this, so be nice to him.

1:06:27 > 1:06:37-- like Lord Adonis. We are not in this to have a poorer country. We

1:06:37 > 1:06:43want a freer country with Democratic self-government, and the message to

1:06:43 > 1:06:47Andrew Adonis is that our viewers should be expressed in Parliament

1:06:47 > 1:06:51and then resolved in decisions which are made resolved following

1:06:51 > 1:06:54decisions of all our viewpoints, but they shouldn't be made in Brussels

1:06:54 > 1:07:01by people who don't elect.It turns out that John and I profoundly

1:07:01 > 1:07:06agree. Before we started into this Brexit business John was in favour

1:07:06 > 1:07:12of what he called it a double referendum, one on the principle on

1:07:12 > 1:07:16the other on the terms of Brexit. What is abundantly clear now is that

1:07:16 > 1:07:23this...Is this true?Of course not, but I don't want to waste time

1:07:23 > 1:07:26debating this. We all agreed on the Conservative manifesto would we

1:07:26 > 1:07:32would have a single referendum about leaving all remaining.But were you

1:07:32 > 1:07:37in favour of a double referendum?We originally proposed allowing people

1:07:37 > 1:07:40to decide whether they wanted a referendum or not, but we made that

1:07:40 > 1:07:45decision by general election.You said there should be a double

1:07:45 > 1:07:48referendum, two referenda, that was your position.We had a referendum

1:07:48 > 1:07:51about the idea of asking the question, then a referendum to

1:07:51 > 1:07:56settle the question. But we did the former by a general election, by

1:07:56 > 1:08:02offering people a referendum, the Conservative Party was elected on

1:08:02 > 1:08:05that basis, parliament voted strongly in favour.The big problem,

1:08:05 > 1:08:07Victoria, is that we can't get straight answers to stray questions,

1:08:07 > 1:08:14including from Boris. You heard the guy on your clip who said that how

1:08:14 > 1:08:18Boris can be the person who set fire to this house can be the person who

1:08:18 > 1:08:22put it out can be an implausible proposition. I asked John a direct

1:08:22 > 1:08:26question, was he in favour of two referenda?He was.But not in the

1:08:26 > 1:08:30way that you are now proposing. That is fine by me. We will have a second

1:08:30 > 1:08:36referendum on the terms of Brexit... This is a waste of an interview.We

1:08:36 > 1:08:42have plenty of time. This is what you wrote. November 20, 2012.

1:08:42 > 1:08:45Yesterday, David Davis made a public case for the double referenda which

1:08:45 > 1:08:50some of us are urging the government to launch. The first question would

1:08:50 > 1:08:55be, do you want the UK Government to negotiate a new relationship with

1:08:55 > 1:09:03the EU based on trade and political corporation? Venney went on, the

1:09:03 > 1:09:07second referendum would follow once the negotiations were complete. That

1:09:07 > 1:09:10would ask, do you want to accept the new negotiate relationship with the

1:09:10 > 1:09:17EU?Are you still in favour of that, John, have you changed your view?Of

1:09:17 > 1:09:20course we have changed our view, we did it the other way around saying

1:09:20 > 1:09:23to the public through a general election, would you like to have a

1:09:23 > 1:09:27government party that will give you a single referendum, do you want to

1:09:27 > 1:09:31stay or leave, and they voted for that. I strongly support that, and I

1:09:31 > 1:09:35don't see why we are going over this ancient history. What I want to talk

1:09:35 > 1:09:40about is how we can spend all that money that we can get back when we

1:09:40 > 1:09:44cease to be in, and how we can change our tax laws in a way to help

1:09:44 > 1:09:47people where we are not light at the moment because of the EU.What some

1:09:47 > 1:09:50people don't understand is why people like yourself who want to

1:09:50 > 1:09:54stop Brexit do not want for example Britain to be independent when it

1:09:54 > 1:09:59comes to its own trade policy, a trade policy shaped by Britain for

1:09:59 > 1:10:04Britain.Because we have a fantastic trade deal at the moment through the

1:10:04 > 1:10:07European Union. We have free trade with 27 members of the European

1:10:07 > 1:10:11Union and preferential trade agreements with another 75 other

1:10:11 > 1:10:16countries as a result of our membership of the European Union.

1:10:16 > 1:10:20When John was a Government in the 1980s, we were negotiating trade

1:10:20 > 1:10:22deals galore, and it was Margaret Thatcher who started the single

1:10:22 > 1:10:28market.So to answer that point, why do you want to give up dozens and

1:10:28 > 1:10:32dozens and dozens of very good trade deals which we have is a member of

1:10:32 > 1:10:37the EU in order to start again from scratch?We won't be giving them up,

1:10:37 > 1:10:43this is a myth.We will.The trade deals are made with us as members of

1:10:43 > 1:10:47the EU and other members of the EU as members of the EU, and I don't

1:10:47 > 1:10:50know of a single country that has one of those trade deals at once.

1:10:50 > 1:10:54But trade deal for the UK because when you break up your union, both

1:10:54 > 1:10:58sides have to make sure the other parties want you to carry on with

1:10:58 > 1:11:04the agreement, it is not just us who have that issue, the rest of the EU

1:11:04 > 1:11:08has it.No one has left the EU before, so we don't know what is

1:11:08 > 1:11:14going to happen.Please don't be so aggressive and silly. Can you name a

1:11:14 > 1:11:18single other country...Nobody has left the EU, so I can't name another

1:11:18 > 1:11:23country.Can you name another country that has a trade deal with

1:11:23 > 1:11:28the EU that doesn't want to roll it over?Nobody else has ever left the

1:11:28 > 1:11:31EU, so we don't know. Can you guarantee that the 75 other nations

1:11:31 > 1:11:35besides the EU with which we have trade agreement at the moment with

1:11:35 > 1:11:41the EU, that all of those will roll over next March? Can you role --

1:11:41 > 1:11:46guarantee that?I can't guarantee anything, I don't believe in making

1:11:46 > 1:11:51silly claims. But I don't know of any country and we are in diplomatic

1:11:51 > 1:11:54contact with countries, that wants to stop a free-trade deal which they

1:11:54 > 1:11:58have already got with us.Does the fact the Boris Johnson is making

1:11:58 > 1:12:02this beach at all mean that there is a genuine worry amongst Brexiteers

1:12:02 > 1:12:05that people like Andrew Adonis are gradually and slowly winning the

1:12:05 > 1:12:08argument?I don't think they are winning the argument at all. We had

1:12:08 > 1:12:14the main argument and it was very clear. The Government agreed, Leave

1:12:14 > 1:12:18agreed and Remain agreed, that the referendum was to give the decision

1:12:18 > 1:12:21of Remain or Leave to the British public, and they knew that and that

1:12:21 > 1:12:25is why they turned out in very large numbers, and it was a single

1:12:25 > 1:12:29referendum and it was assumed that then parliament would get on and

1:12:29 > 1:12:36enacted. Furthermore we have had a general election since then, and the

1:12:36 > 1:12:39party campaigned to leave the EU as part of the campaign.Boris Johnson

1:12:39 > 1:12:43will say that trying to reverse the referenda would be a disastrous

1:12:43 > 1:12:46state leading to a permanent feeling of betrayal among the 17 million

1:12:46 > 1:12:54people who voted to leave. He is right on that, isn't he?I favour a

1:12:54 > 1:13:00referendum on the terms... .But he is right, isn't he?Those people

1:13:00 > 1:13:05will have a choice on whether they like the terms they don't. If they

1:13:05 > 1:13:08don't, if they like the terms and they believe in all the promises of

1:13:08 > 1:13:10two years ago which are now disintegrated, they still believe

1:13:10 > 1:13:14that is the way forward, that is fine. But it is the people who

1:13:14 > 1:13:18should decide, it shouldn't be John and people in smoke-filled rooms in

1:13:18 > 1:13:22the Conservative Party plotting the succession to Theresa May decided.

1:13:22 > 1:13:25That is what should happen. I am a democrat and I support the position

1:13:25 > 1:13:29that John himself supported until 2016 which was a double referendum.

1:13:29 > 1:13:37The idea that we should take an assurance from Boris Johnson who

1:13:37 > 1:13:39caused all of this mess that everything is going to be fine, and

1:13:39 > 1:13:42if those of us who want us to remaining gauged in Europe to have

1:13:42 > 1:13:44free trade and prosperity, that somehow we should give up, that is

1:13:44 > 1:13:47not going to happen.What is so wrong with a second referendum on

1:13:47 > 1:13:51the deal?We had a referendum gave the decision...I heard you say

1:13:51 > 1:13:58that. Once the deal is done, what would be so wrong with that?But we

1:13:58 > 1:14:01had this very issue in the general election.You keep ignoring the

1:14:01 > 1:14:07question. Once the deal is done... Liberal Democrats campaigned for a

1:14:07 > 1:14:12second general election and they did very badly in the election, that is

1:14:12 > 1:14:16on the wing of the people.But once the deal is done. Please let me

1:14:16 > 1:14:19finish the sentence. Once the deal is done, what would be so bad about

1:14:19 > 1:14:22putting it to the British people to see if they liked it or not?It

1:14:22 > 1:14:26would put the country in an impossible position. We have made a

1:14:26 > 1:14:29decision and told our partners what we are doing, and whiners would they

1:14:29 > 1:14:40want is back on the same terms or anything like that? We have to get

1:14:40 > 1:14:42on with it.Democracy is very inconvenient for John Redwood, but

1:14:42 > 1:14:45the right Democratic causes for the British people to decide this, not

1:14:45 > 1:14:47John Redwood.I would be deciding it, Parliament has decided at an

1:14:47 > 1:14:50affair referendum vote of all of the people.Perhaps an illustration of

1:14:50 > 1:14:53how difficult it is going to be for Boris Johnson to try to unite remain

1:14:53 > 1:15:04as an Brexiteers, but nevertheless, thank you very much, gentlemen.

1:15:04 > 1:15:04Still to come.

1:15:04 > 1:15:05The flexibility

1:15:05 > 1:15:08of running your own business from home is a dream for many,

1:15:08 > 1:15:10but are some of the marketing schemes advertised too good

1:15:10 > 1:15:11to be true?

1:15:11 > 1:15:14We'll hear how some people have been left thousands of pounds in debt.

1:15:19 > 1:15:20Good morning.

1:15:20 > 1:15:24The first set of guidelines to tackle bullying and harrassment

1:15:24 > 1:15:27in the film and TV industry are being unveiled today.

1:15:27 > 1:15:29The guidance is a response to the sexual harassment scandal

1:15:29 > 1:15:31that has rocked the entertainment industry following a string

1:15:31 > 1:15:33of allegations made against producer Harvey Weinstein.

1:15:33 > 1:15:41Actress Emma Watson has supported the new plans.

1:15:41 > 1:15:45These principles are important because up until recently there were

1:15:45 > 1:15:49no guidelines. There was no protocol for someone that had been sexually

1:15:49 > 1:15:53harassed in the entertainment industry. I know this to be a fact

1:15:53 > 1:15:57because I have asked for principals, I have asked to see guidelines, and

1:15:57 > 1:16:01no one could give them to me. No one could send me, here is the protocol

1:16:01 > 1:16:05that we follow when someone has had this experience. Which I found

1:16:05 > 1:16:08shocking.

1:16:08 > 1:16:11Let's speak no to Amanda Nevill, Chief executive

1:16:11 > 1:16:13of the British Film Institute, Rebecca O'Brien who is

1:16:13 > 1:16:17a BAFTA-winning film producer and runs a production company

1:16:17 > 1:16:20Sixteen Films, and to Helen Vine, an actor who's worked on Tomb Raider

1:16:20 > 1:16:24and was in The Crown, and who took a theatre company

1:16:24 > 1:16:28she worked for to an employment tribunal and last month won £10,000

1:16:28 > 1:16:29for the sexual harassment she endured.

1:16:29 > 1:16:31She's waived her right

1:16:31 > 1:16:34to anonymity to talk to you today.

1:16:34 > 1:16:38And potentially we are going to talk about some graphic issues.

1:16:38 > 1:16:41If you have children around, you may not want them to listen.

1:16:42 > 1:16:47Good morning to all of you. Helen, you were as I understand it

1:16:47 > 1:16:52proposition for sex. You were asked to join a threesome. Intimate parts

1:16:52 > 1:16:54of your body were discussed, comments were made about the size of

1:16:54 > 1:17:01your breasts, and so it goes on. Why?I don't know. It was a company

1:17:01 > 1:17:04that was a theatre education company, and I was touring with

1:17:04 > 1:17:09them. But from day one, the behaviour that the actors and

1:17:09 > 1:17:16directors that I was working with were using towards me was an

1:17:16 > 1:17:21acceptable, and it just escalated, and I was pushed to breaking point.

1:17:21 > 1:17:26I was forced to resign due to the sexual harassment and bullying that

1:17:26 > 1:17:30I underwent with the company.And I wonder if these new guidelines and

1:17:30 > 1:17:39principles had been in place, four example two designated workers on

1:17:39 > 1:17:44and off set to work with and interview witnesses, dedicated

1:17:44 > 1:17:49hotline, would it not have happened? I'm not sure, because there were no

1:17:49 > 1:17:54procedures in place with this company whatsoever, so they were

1:17:54 > 1:17:59allowing this behaviour, that the company director and allowed it, but

1:17:59 > 1:18:04during the court process and the year that I was complaining and I

1:18:04 > 1:18:11was in touch with Equity and my solicitor, I was not aware that this

1:18:11 > 1:18:17was going to happen. Now that these procedures are in place, it's

1:18:17 > 1:18:21completely supporting what I have just literally been through, and if

1:18:21 > 1:18:25they were in place a few months ago even when it was still in the

1:18:25 > 1:18:35rapping up stages of my complaint, it would have supported me.Could

1:18:35 > 1:18:39you have done this earlier, Amanda? I think Ugen only do something when

1:18:39 > 1:18:42you knowing needs doing, and of course every body now is saying that

1:18:42 > 1:18:45it has been known about for a long time, but had it been known about,

1:18:45 > 1:18:50the industry definitely would have galvanised quicker.And how will

1:18:50 > 1:18:54what you are introducing protect people like hell in?First of all,

1:18:54 > 1:19:00to be clear, sadly for Helen it was in theatre, and our guidelines of

1:19:00 > 1:19:02the television, but there is no reason why theatre shouldn't adopt

1:19:02 > 1:19:07it. The British law is on the side of this. The issue is within the

1:19:07 > 1:19:10workplace if you are a victim of bullying or harassment, how do you

1:19:10 > 1:19:14articulate it? Who do you go to and how do you find a language to

1:19:14 > 1:19:19explain it? And this does three things. First of all it is the

1:19:19 > 1:19:22industry together, many organisations doing this, saying we

1:19:22 > 1:19:25don't want this, we are all going to commit to saying out loud that we

1:19:25 > 1:19:28are not going to allow this to happen and we want to make sure.

1:19:28 > 1:19:33Secondly it is putting in place those missing legs, as you said, so

1:19:33 > 1:19:36our aim at Baftas and the BFI is to offer training with the aim that in

1:19:36 > 1:19:39the workplace and on every set there are at least two people that you

1:19:39 > 1:19:43could go to, so if you had been on a film you could have been able to go

1:19:43 > 1:19:46to these people who would have said, try this or that, also, this is

1:19:46 > 1:19:49serious, ring the helpline, because they can put you in touch with

1:19:49 > 1:19:58proper for the National is.You have been in the industry for a while,

1:19:58 > 1:20:05how much does this need to be done? Badly. This happened on one of my

1:20:05 > 1:20:12own films.Somebody came to you?No, I did a speech at the European film

1:20:12 > 1:20:16award at my campaign. She wrote to me afterwards. She said three years

1:20:16 > 1:20:21ago when I was working on a film of yours, not a Ken Loach film, by the

1:20:21 > 1:20:28way, but on a film of yours I was sexually harassed or is nasty, lurid

1:20:28 > 1:20:38suggestions were made to me by members of staff. She told me that

1:20:38 > 1:20:43she was a new person in the industry. This was her first job on

1:20:43 > 1:20:50a film. Can you imagine?How did you react?I was horrified. I was

1:20:50 > 1:20:53ashamed this happened on what should have been my watch. I like to think

1:20:53 > 1:20:59people can come to me and be open and stuff. But you realise how the

1:20:59 > 1:21:08abuse of power can happen when you are not aware of what goes on. I

1:21:08 > 1:21:14wrote back, I said I was sorry and shocked. The only thing I can do, I

1:21:14 > 1:21:17said can I tell your story to demonstrate that it even happens to

1:21:17 > 1:21:24people who think they know how to run a film set.Could you not have

1:21:24 > 1:21:28gone to the people who abused her, verbally and otherwise, and call

1:21:28 > 1:21:35them out?I would have. Had I known. Absolutely.Could you not do that

1:21:35 > 1:21:39now?The problem with the freelance industry, and this is why it is

1:21:39 > 1:21:42important to have a joint industry approach and guidelines and

1:21:42 > 1:21:44principles covering the whole industry, is that it is a very

1:21:44 > 1:21:51freelance business. Each film that you do, you are setting up a new

1:21:51 > 1:21:56situation, a new workplace. You have that thing when a film begins, when

1:21:56 > 1:22:00production begins, you have maybe hundreds of people working together

1:22:00 > 1:22:08in a new place, they are jockeying for position with each other. The

1:22:08 > 1:22:15small companies don't have an HR department you can go to. And you

1:22:15 > 1:22:18have new people who... And it has been predominantly a male industry

1:22:18 > 1:22:24for some time. And a lot... There is a lot of banter and stuff that goes

1:22:24 > 1:22:27on between people who are familiar with working with each other. And if

1:22:27 > 1:22:32you are a young woman... It can happen between genders, it can

1:22:32 > 1:22:37happen between blokes come as well, but if you are a young woman and it

1:22:37 > 1:22:44is new to you do not know where you stand -- and it is new to you, you

1:22:44 > 1:22:48do not know where you stand.It is thought that lots of people will

1:22:48 > 1:22:52wear black, like at the Golden globes, what is the point of that?

1:22:52 > 1:22:56It is a show of commitment, isn't it? Like the principles. The

1:22:56 > 1:23:02principles will work and say we are not going to have that. To come back

1:23:02 > 1:23:05to the principle is a bit, you mentioned a bit about education and

1:23:05 > 1:23:14how you change an industry. That is a manifestation of our desire to

1:23:14 > 1:23:19change. But the people signing up not just those actively engaged, its

1:23:19 > 1:23:21people coming through, for example creative skills sets are hoping to

1:23:21 > 1:23:26put this module in towards future training. It will be embedded with

1:23:26 > 1:23:32all of the up and coming. And there was a fantastic lottery funded

1:23:32 > 1:23:36organisation that has film clubs in 10,000 schools, run by amazing

1:23:36 > 1:23:41teachers, they are going to embed this as one of the talking points. I

1:23:41 > 1:23:44would hope that by starting at the bottom and making that commitment,

1:23:44 > 1:23:49you know, at one end you have people wearing black, at the other hand you

1:23:49 > 1:23:55have teachers over using this as an opportunity or an excuse to discuss

1:23:55 > 1:24:00it.Thank you all for your time, I appreciate it.

1:24:00 > 1:24:02Still to come.

1:24:02 > 1:24:04The prescription drug Xanax is being sold illegally

1:24:04 > 1:24:06to children over social media - we'll tell about the drug

1:24:06 > 1:24:08and it's impact - if you've take it -

1:24:08 > 1:24:09do get in touch.

1:24:09 > 1:24:12It's Valentines Day and we're on the hunt for the couple that's

1:24:12 > 1:24:20been together the longest - get in touch if this might be you.

1:24:20 > 1:24:28I have some comments... I will read them in the next half hour after the

1:24:28 > 1:24:32news from Carol Walker.

1:24:32 > 1:24:35The Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, will say in a speech

1:24:35 > 1:24:37this morning that leaving the European Union is a cause

1:24:37 > 1:24:38for "hope, not fear".

1:24:38 > 1:24:40He'll attempt to offer reassurance to Remain

1:24:40 > 1:24:41voters who feel alienated.

1:24:41 > 1:24:43But the government's efforts at reconciliation have angered

1:24:43 > 1:24:45the Labour MP Chuka Umunna, who supports the Open Britain

1:24:45 > 1:24:46campaign against a hard Brexit.

1:24:46 > 1:24:49He said Mr Johnson was "unqualified to preach about the perils

1:24:49 > 1:24:57of fear and betrayal".

1:24:57 > 1:25:01The jury at the trial of the former football coach Barry Bennell, who

1:25:01 > 1:25:06has been found guilty of dozens of sexual offences against young boys,

1:25:06 > 1:25:11will continue deliberations on other charges today. Yesterday the jury at

1:25:11 > 1:25:14Liverpool Crown Court returned guilty verdicts on 36 counts and

1:25:14 > 1:25:18asked for more time to consider seven more. Barry Bennell, who

1:25:18 > 1:25:22appeared in court via video link due to illness, declined to give

1:25:22 > 1:25:24evidence in his defence.

1:25:24 > 1:25:28A committee of MPs has said there is a pervasive lack of trust among

1:25:28 > 1:25:32disabled people when it comes to how their welfare claims are assessed.

1:25:32 > 1:25:36The comments work and pensions committee said reports by private

1:25:36 > 1:25:40contractors were riddled with errors. It recommends ministers take

1:25:40 > 1:25:44the service back in house when contracts end with private firms.

1:25:44 > 1:25:47The Government says the majority of claimants are happy with their

1:25:47 > 1:25:49overall experience.

1:25:50 > 1:25:54Police in South Africa have raided properties belonging to allies of

1:25:54 > 1:26:00the President Jacob Zuma as pressure mounts on him to step down. The

1:26:00 > 1:26:03Gupta family have been accused of using their friendship with the

1:26:03 > 1:26:07president to promote them agribusiness interests. The

1:26:07 > 1:26:10President and the family denied allegations. The president is

1:26:10 > 1:26:15expected to respond later today to a formal request from the ANC to step

1:26:15 > 1:26:16down.

1:26:16 > 1:26:21That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

1:26:21 > 1:26:27My grandparents celebrated their Platinum wedding anniversary, they

1:26:27 > 1:26:31have been together 73 years, the local paper did a piece on them. But

1:26:31 > 1:26:35I need to know your name, their name, so we can get them on the

1:26:35 > 1:26:39programme before 11. Thank you. Gordon and Elizabeth, married at 21,

1:26:39 > 1:26:46we are now in our 60 this year. OK. Hurricane Gordon and Elizabeth are

1:26:46 > 1:26:50winning so far because we, at least, have their names. Keep those coming.

1:26:50 > 1:26:53Here's some sport now.

1:26:53 > 1:26:57A successful day so far for the British curling teams at the Winter

1:26:57 > 1:27:00Olympics in Pyeongchang. The women once again led by their skip Eve

1:27:00 > 1:27:05Muirhead and her third Olympic Games. They had a comprehensive win

1:27:05 > 1:27:10over the athletes from Russia earlier. The men also won their

1:27:10 > 1:27:14round robin against Switzerland. Another Olympic gold for Shaun

1:27:14 > 1:27:21White. He is known as the flying tomato. He did not win surprisingly

1:27:21 > 1:27:30in Sochi. He secured the 100th gold medal for USA in Winter Olympic

1:27:30 > 1:27:33history. Spurs came back from 2-0 down to

1:27:33 > 1:27:36beat Juventus. Impressive from Spurs when you consider Juventus hadn't

1:27:36 > 1:27:45conceded in Serie A since November. Manchester City got a 4-0 victory

1:27:45 > 1:27:51over Basel. It was the biggest away win for any English team in a

1:27:51 > 1:27:54Champions League knockout tie. That is it for now. Much more sport

1:27:54 > 1:27:57coming up later. Thanks very much.

1:27:57 > 1:27:59There are calls this morning for more regulation of a type

1:27:59 > 1:28:01of home business called multi-level marketing schemes -

1:28:01 > 1:28:03after a BBC investigation found that some of those involved

1:28:03 > 1:28:06were being left in thousands of pounds worth of debt.

1:28:06 > 1:28:08Multi-level marketing companies, or MLMs, have been compared

1:28:08 > 1:28:10by their critics to pyramid schemes - though the key difference

1:28:10 > 1:28:13is they're absolutely legal - essentially a company employs

1:28:13 > 1:28:15a network of independent salespeople who sell products directly

1:28:15 > 1:28:16to people in their community.

1:28:16 > 1:28:18These salespeople earn income based on their personal sales,

1:28:18 > 1:28:21as well as the sales of people they recruit to work

1:28:21 > 1:28:22for the company.

1:28:22 > 1:28:25But many people who dreamt of making thousands of pounds a month

1:28:25 > 1:28:26are instead ending up in debt.

1:28:26 > 1:28:29We bought you our full report earlier - here's a short extract.

1:28:29 > 1:28:31-- We brought you our full report earlier -

1:28:31 > 1:28:37here's a short extract.

1:28:37 > 1:28:43With all across the UK are speaking out against £1 billion industry

1:28:43 > 1:28:46called multilevel marketing. -- women across the UK. Let's explain

1:28:46 > 1:28:51what it is using our fictional company and a made up group of

1:28:51 > 1:29:01people. The company make their own perfumes. Fictional aim is recruited

1:29:01 > 1:29:14by her old school friend Karen to join her team. -- fictional Amy. Amy

1:29:14 > 1:29:19makes money by selling purview to her friends, and Karen gets a cut of

1:29:19 > 1:29:29those sales. -- selling perfume. Amy Also recruits people. Karen also

1:29:29 > 1:29:40gets recruitment from the people Amy signed up.I have had fallouts with

1:29:40 > 1:29:44my partner over it because I used his credit cards. I have racked up

1:29:44 > 1:29:50thousands in debt.To me this is everything.These women told us that

1:29:50 > 1:30:02they lost thousands of pounds in a weight loss coffee drink. We

1:30:02 > 1:30:04contacted the company and they admit:

1:30:14 > 1:30:17They also said:

1:30:26 > 1:30:29We have also decided as a result of looking into this issue that we are

1:30:29 > 1:30:45not going to accept any recruitment from MLMs on Mumsnet going forward.

1:30:45 > 1:30:53They are offering women the chance, they say, to earn a lot of money for

1:30:53 > 1:30:56very little work while staying at home with their children. It's a

1:30:56 > 1:31:02lie.The direct sales Association, which represents some of the

1:31:02 > 1:31:03companies, says:

1:31:10 > 1:31:15There are some real life success stories.I'm currently the number

1:31:15 > 1:31:21one position female in the UK. I have a team of over 1800 people. It

1:31:21 > 1:31:25means I've been able to enjoy incredible income over the last four

1:31:25 > 1:31:33and a half years. Three and of those years my company has had an intake

1:31:33 > 1:31:38of £100,000 as income.Natasha was successful in a company called

1:31:38 > 1:31:43Forever Living. She has now quit and is an outspoken critic of the whole

1:31:43 > 1:31:46industry.I've made some great friends and some incredible people.

1:31:46 > 1:31:50But three and a half years later I decided to that industry. I started

1:31:50 > 1:31:55to notice the negativity going on. Stories that somebody had been

1:31:55 > 1:31:59experiencing bullying, somebody else experiencing cheating. 90% of it is

1:31:59 > 1:32:06full of greedy vulture like behaviour.The company said:

1:32:15 > 1:32:17Let's talk to Labour MP Helen Hayes,

1:32:17 > 1:32:19who has been looking into Multi-Level Marketing

1:32:19 > 1:32:23since a constituent contacted her about them; John Evans who runs

1:32:23 > 1:32:26an anti-MLM facebook group is here,

1:32:26 > 1:32:29and Joanna Bacon, a mum who works in MLM,

1:32:29 > 1:32:33and says she has earned as much as £20,000 in one month.

1:32:33 > 1:32:39Welcome all of you. Helen, what is the issue?The issue is growing

1:32:39 > 1:32:43numbers of people. We heard in the film three quarters of them women,

1:32:43 > 1:32:49who are being drawn into MLM distribution networks. Often through

1:32:49 > 1:32:54promises which bears very little relationship to the reality of the

1:32:54 > 1:32:58income you can achieve. I was contacted by a constituent, Jenny,

1:32:58 > 1:33:03who is in the film, who does campaigning work on this issue. As

1:33:03 > 1:33:07soon as she drew my attention to this, what became clear was that

1:33:07 > 1:33:13this is a very widespread. We see MLM sales taking place at school

1:33:13 > 1:33:18fairs, local community events, in leisure centres. It is a widespread

1:33:18 > 1:33:21practice. My concern is that there are large numbers of people who find

1:33:21 > 1:33:27themselves in genuine difficulty. But also financial difficulty. And

1:33:27 > 1:33:29also psychological distress as a consequence of being caught up in

1:33:29 > 1:33:32something which promises something which it really cannot deliver. I

1:33:32 > 1:33:36think it is an area where the law hasn't kept pace with the scale of

1:33:36 > 1:33:44change on the ground.John Evans, you have set up this anti-MLM

1:33:44 > 1:33:47Facebook group. How do people get into debt, you buy stock and then

1:33:47 > 1:33:53sell it, what's the problem?

1:33:53 > 1:33:57Well, they get into the group and they buy their starter kit, and of

1:33:57 > 1:34:02the months go wonder they don't get sales, they are either obliged to

1:34:02 > 1:34:06continue to purchase, or their promotional rank is affected if they

1:34:06 > 1:34:09don't maintain their product sales and purchases. I can see Joanna

1:34:09 > 1:34:16shaking her head. Obviously people do purchase to remain active, maybe

1:34:16 > 1:34:27not in your specific MLM, but it is a very specific factor which keeps

1:34:27 > 1:34:31people with their products, and often a big factor in that is

1:34:31 > 1:34:36autoship, where you get product each month sent to you whether or not you

1:34:36 > 1:34:42are selling them. You are not distribute any more if you don't

1:34:42 > 1:34:46maintain that autoship.And what is the deal about going promotional

1:34:46 > 1:34:49rankings Chris Maguire is that a good thing? Customers see was

1:34:49 > 1:34:58trustworthy?It is a recruitment, you are more likely to get someone

1:34:58 > 1:35:03to join your team.Joanna, have you really earned £20,000 in a month,

1:35:03 > 1:35:11and presumably that is before tax? Yes.How?Over the last four years,

1:35:11 > 1:35:15I have built up incredibly large teams, I have been a high retailer

1:35:15 > 1:35:19in my company, so I am getting a lot of retail profit from that, and I

1:35:19 > 1:35:23have bonuses of large amounts as well from the company, too.Why

1:35:23 > 1:35:27we're shaking your head when John Evans was explaining the autoship

1:35:27 > 1:35:32process and keeping high on the rankings?Because that might be the

1:35:32 > 1:35:36case for one company, but it is not the case in the company that I'm

1:35:36 > 1:35:40involved in right now. You don't have to do thousands upon thousands

1:35:40 > 1:35:44to stay active, you can put through a customer's order and you don't

1:35:44 > 1:35:48have to take any money out of your own pocket. I understand we both of

1:35:48 > 1:35:54those coming from because I saw it in previous company, I have seen

1:35:54 > 1:35:57people spending thousands of pounds to stay active because of the

1:35:57 > 1:36:00criteria of that company, but it doesn't mean that is the same for

1:36:00 > 1:36:05every single company in the industry.Fair enough.I know that

1:36:05 > 1:36:10it goes on, and identically that is right, but that is why I am here to

1:36:10 > 1:36:13stand a summary who was ethical in the industry and doing at the right

1:36:13 > 1:36:19way.Helen, if all that is laid out, before somebody signed up to an MLM,

1:36:19 > 1:36:24then it is up to you to read it and see what conditions are an sign the

1:36:24 > 1:36:30contract or not.There is no question that there are MLMs that

1:36:30 > 1:36:32are responsibly run, but the regulations are not there to ensure

1:36:32 > 1:36:37that that is the case across the industry. So I think we need three

1:36:37 > 1:36:40quite specific changes which would help to ensure better practice and

1:36:40 > 1:36:44more responsible practice across the industry, and they are that MLMs

1:36:44 > 1:36:49should be required to publish an independently audited statement of

1:36:49 > 1:36:54the average earnings that their members are able to secure after

1:36:54 > 1:36:58costs have been taken out of that equation. That you should not be

1:36:58 > 1:37:01able to earn commission by recruiting, because that is pyramid

1:37:01 > 1:37:06selling and is illegal, it is illegal only to do that but not

1:37:06 > 1:37:08illegal to do it if also products are involved, but you shouldn't be

1:37:08 > 1:37:11able to do it. And much more tightening up on the outlandish

1:37:11 > 1:37:16claims that many MLMs are able to make an social media in particular

1:37:16 > 1:37:19where it goes unchecked about the lifestyle that you are able to

1:37:19 > 1:37:22realise as a consequence of participating in an MLM, and I think

1:37:22 > 1:37:28those changes would help to make this a more responsibly run

1:37:28 > 1:37:32industry.Have you got time to say some thing? Having transparency is

1:37:32 > 1:37:37key, and you never get that with MLM.They exaggerate everything.

1:37:37 > 1:37:42Joanna is shaking her head again. I have read post from all the MLMs and

1:37:42 > 1:37:44the country, they all over exaggerate what benefit people will

1:37:44 > 1:37:49get from joining.The direct selling Association which represents an MLM

1:37:49 > 1:37:52company say, direct selling should never be viewed as a way to get rich

1:37:52 > 1:37:56quick. It says it operates a strict code of conduct which protects

1:37:56 > 1:38:02direct sellers and consumers. I know you have loads more to say, I know.

1:38:02 > 1:38:08And we have said a lot. Thank you for coming on.

1:38:08 > 1:38:10In the past few minutes, a senior official

1:38:10 > 1:38:18for the African National Congress has increased pressure

1:38:18 > 1:38:20on South Africa's President Zuma to step down, saying

1:38:20 > 1:38:21the deadline for his

1:38:21 > 1:38:24resignation will expire today.

1:38:24 > 1:38:30It is very clear for us at the ANC, we can no longer wait. We don't want

1:38:30 > 1:38:40to keep South Africa waiting. If President Zuma will respond, he will

1:38:40 > 1:38:44respond, but we can't continue waiting. The decision has been taken

1:38:44 > 1:38:48and must be implemented. So my message to the caucus today was just

1:38:48 > 1:38:55that must now proceed to the process.Lets talk to our

1:38:55 > 1:39:01correspondent Pumza Fihlani who is in Pretoria. We were expecting Jacob

1:39:01 > 1:39:08Zuma, worry not? He didn't show, but we had this instead.We certainly

1:39:08 > 1:39:11were, but we always understood this was waiting in the wings should the

1:39:11 > 1:39:14president not give an answer that the ANC wanted to hear. We don't

1:39:14 > 1:39:17know what happened behind closed doors, but all indications seem to

1:39:17 > 1:39:21point that the ANC is pressing ahead with the Parliamentary process, and

1:39:21 > 1:39:24this would mean a vote of no-confidence. We understand that

1:39:24 > 1:39:28this is scheduled for tomorrow, and they have said if there is time,

1:39:28 > 1:39:32they want to proceed with the process of electing a new

1:39:32 > 1:39:40replacement for Jacob Zuma. Thank very much.

1:39:40 > 1:39:48The prescription drug Xanax is being sold to teenagers and social media,

1:39:48 > 1:39:53so we understand. It can only be obtained on private perception here

1:39:53 > 1:39:58in Britain. The drugs charity AdAction says children as young as

1:39:58 > 1:40:0313 are buying it online.When we buy acid, it would be £10 per tab, and

1:40:03 > 1:40:06then he would sell us Xanax on the side.

1:40:13 > 1:40:15Everyone I know uses drugs.

1:41:07 > 1:41:09With us now is Harry Shapiro.

1:41:09 > 1:41:10He's the director

1:41:10 > 1:41:13of UK charity Drug Wise.

1:41:13 > 1:41:19What is Xanax and how can it affect you?It is in the family of

1:41:19 > 1:41:26benzodiazepine tranquillisers, so the same family as Valium and

1:41:26 > 1:41:30diazepam, but it is about 20 times stronger than Valium, which is

1:41:30 > 1:41:33probably one of the reasons why you can't get it on the NHS in this

1:41:33 > 1:41:42country. And it is prescribed for treating anxiety and depression, so

1:41:42 > 1:41:47from a recreation point of view, people would be feeling euphoric. It

1:41:47 > 1:41:55is called buzzy. You feel quite distant from things, wrapped up in

1:41:55 > 1:42:00cotton wool to a certain extent. It takes the edge off life if you are

1:42:00 > 1:42:05using it medically, but it is also used recreationally to take the edge

1:42:05 > 1:42:11off other kinds of drugs like ecstasy.But if you are 13 and

1:42:11 > 1:42:14buying it illegally on social media, why are you buying it?For two

1:42:14 > 1:42:21reasons. There is a whole culture of just getting stoned in one way,

1:42:21 > 1:42:26shape or form, and that can just be with alcohol or dangerously mixing

1:42:26 > 1:42:31alcohol with other drugs like Xanax. But also the medical health

1:42:31 > 1:42:34charities speak a lot these days about increasing mental health

1:42:34 > 1:42:38problems amongst young people, and the difficulties of getting

1:42:38 > 1:42:41treatment. And I think a part of this at least is self medication as

1:42:41 > 1:42:54well.Thank you very much, thank you for coming on the programme.

1:42:54 > 1:42:56Throughout the programme this morning we've been trying

1:42:56 > 1:42:58to find the couple who've been together the longest.

1:42:58 > 1:43:01Here are some couples that have all been married

1:43:01 > 1:43:04for more than 50 years.

1:44:25 > 1:44:30Let's speak to 93-year-old Joan Rimmer in Oxford who got

1:44:30 > 1:44:40engaged to her partner 70 years ago today and got married in 1949.

1:44:42 > 1:44:44Her son texted us their story.

1:44:44 > 1:44:48Joan cares for her husband Paul, who is terminally ill.

1:44:48 > 1:44:56Hello. How are you?Well, struggling a bit, but coping.OK. But you and

1:44:56 > 1:45:03Paul have been together for such a long time.Yes. We first went out

1:45:03 > 1:45:08together when we were 16.Did you? We were at school together.When did

1:45:08 > 1:45:13you fall in love with him? How old were you then?Well, shortly after

1:45:13 > 1:45:22going out. We were parted of course as part of the war, and he went and

1:45:22 > 1:45:27trained to fly in America, came back to study in Oxford, and I was

1:45:27 > 1:45:31teaching somewhere, but we always knew if anybody else became

1:45:31 > 1:45:42interested, well, actually, you know, there's Paul. So that's it.

1:45:42 > 1:45:48We've been fortunate enough to live so long. Not many people together in

1:45:48 > 1:45:51their 90s these days.And ups and downs over that time? You mention

1:45:51 > 1:46:01war, clearly.Not in our time together, I don't think. We've had

1:46:01 > 1:46:07sadness in our marriage, our daughter died during a hip operation

1:46:07 > 1:46:20in her early 50s, so that was pretty shattering, but one survives. It's

1:46:20 > 1:46:27good. In fact, we are very fortunate that even now, Paul isn't in pain,

1:46:27 > 1:46:31you know. We are just getting gently towards the end of our lives, that's

1:46:31 > 1:46:38it.Do you still feel like a team? Yes, absolutely. He is getting

1:46:38 > 1:46:43weaker, which is sometimes difficult to cope with, and a bit confused,

1:46:43 > 1:46:50but it comes to us all, really, doesn't it?It does.And if we are

1:46:50 > 1:46:53fortunate enough that I can look after him at home, which is

1:46:53 > 1:46:57marvellous, and he isn't in pain, those are the two things we are

1:46:57 > 1:47:02thankful for. And we have a lot of support, friends and neighbours, the

1:47:02 > 1:47:10congregation of St Peter's where Paul helps a lot when he was

1:47:10 > 1:47:15retired.Joan, we are grateful that you spoke to us today. Thank you so

1:47:15 > 1:47:20much, and best wishes to Paul.When will we hear this?It has gone out

1:47:20 > 1:47:22live now! Have a good day.