0:00:08 > 0:00:10Hello.
0:00:10 > 0:00:14It's Thursday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,
0:00:14 > 0:00:20welcome to the programme.
0:00:20 > 0:00:25Antidepressants do work, and more of us should be using them.This is the
0:00:25 > 0:00:28final answer to a long-lasting controversy about the efficacy of
0:00:28 > 0:00:31antidepressants.
0:00:31 > 0:00:32Have anti depressants worked for you?
0:00:32 > 0:00:34Let us know about your experience.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37Donald Trump says if teachers had guns, they could stop mass shootings
0:00:37 > 0:00:39in American schools.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42The president put forward the idea during a meeting at the White House
0:00:42 > 0:00:44with survivors and relatives of victims of recent attacks,
0:00:44 > 0:00:48who begged him to make sure it doesn't happen again.
0:00:48 > 0:00:55I am very angry that this happened, because it keeps happening. 9/11
0:00:55 > 0:00:59happened once and they fixed everything. How many schools, how
0:00:59 > 0:01:04many children have to get shot? It's stops here with this administration
0:01:04 > 0:01:08in May. -- and me.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11We'll be speaking to two of the survivors of the attack
0:01:11 > 0:01:14at the high school in Florida last week which left 17 people dead
0:01:14 > 0:01:18to get their eaction to Mr Trump's suggestion
0:01:18 > 0:01:21And here, at the Brits last night, Stormzy, beat Ed Sheeran to win best
0:01:21 > 0:01:23British male and best British album.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25And Dua Lipa also picked up two awards for best British female
0:01:25 > 0:01:31and the breakthrough award.
0:01:31 > 0:01:37Well, congratulations.Here is two more women on these stages, more
0:01:37 > 0:01:42women winning awards, and more women taking over the world. Thank you so
0:01:42 > 0:01:48much. -- to more women.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Hello.
0:01:50 > 0:01:56Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59In a few minutes' time, we're going to talk about the grim
0:01:59 > 0:02:02rise in knife crime after two more people were stabbed
0:02:02 > 0:02:03in North London on Tuesday night.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07It's a big issue for the capital, but knife crime is on the rise
0:02:07 > 0:02:08right across the country.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11This morning we've brought together a group
0:02:11 > 0:02:16of people with form ideas about how to tackle knife crime.
0:02:16 > 0:02:19Parents who've lost sons to fatal stabbings, politicans,
0:02:19 > 0:02:21and a former Met officer.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23And wherever you are in the country,
0:02:23 > 0:02:33we'd like to hear your solutions to tackling knife crime.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37Text, email, FB or whatsapp.
0:02:37 > 0:02:39Our top story today.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42Scientists say they've settled one of medicine's biggest debates
0:02:42 > 0:02:45after a huge study found that anti-depressants work.
0:02:45 > 0:02:46It could mean that millions more sufferers could
0:02:46 > 0:02:47benefit from the drugs.
0:02:47 > 0:02:54Andrew Plant reports.
0:02:54 > 0:03:01They're one of the most commonly
0:03:01 > 0:03:03used drugs in the UK with 64 million prescriptions for antidepressants
0:03:03 > 0:03:04given out every year.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07That's more than one prescription per person.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10But for years there's been debate and doubt over how effective
0:03:10 > 0:03:13they really are.
0:03:13 > 0:03:19Now the University of Oxford has analysed the data on a huge scale
0:03:19 > 0:03:22and says every one of the 21 drugs they looked that did help patients
0:03:22 > 0:03:32to manage their depression.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34We found almost all the commonly prescribed antidepressants
0:03:34 > 0:03:36worked for major depression and for people with moderate
0:03:36 > 0:03:39to severe depression, and we also found some of them
0:03:39 > 0:03:45are more effective than others, or better tolerated than others.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47Many who take antidepressants say there is still a stigma attached
0:03:47 > 0:03:51to using the medication.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53When I first started taking them, the first question asked
0:03:53 > 0:03:57was when are you going to come off them, are you going to take them
0:03:57 > 0:03:59for a short amount of time?
0:03:59 > 0:04:01It doesn't really work like that.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04You wouldn't say to a diabetic, when are you going to wean yourself
0:04:04 > 0:04:10off insulin, you know?
0:04:10 > 0:04:13I think people need to realise that the benefits,
0:04:13 > 0:04:17it's an ongoing thing.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20The study also ranked the drugs according to how effective
0:04:20 > 0:04:22they were, which could help doctors pick the right prescriptions
0:04:22 > 0:04:23for their patients.
0:04:23 > 0:04:29Andrew Plant, BBC News.
0:04:29 > 0:04:30And if anti-depressants have worked for you,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33let us know what difference they've made to your life.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35And those experiences of yours will be part
0:04:35 > 0:04:37of our conversation this morning.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41Right, the rest of the morning's news, here's Rachel.
0:04:41 > 0:04:42Giving teachers guns could help
0:04:42 > 0:04:45prevent further school shootings in the US.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48That's the message from President Trump as he sat down
0:04:48 > 0:04:51in the White House with survivors of last week's Florida
0:04:51 > 0:04:52high school shooting.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54Barbara Plett Usher has the story.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58The people demand a hearing.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01In Florida, telling their lawmakers loud and clear, they don't want this
0:05:01 > 0:05:03mass shooting to drop off the political agenda
0:05:03 > 0:05:07like all the others have.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10At the White House, President Trump was listening to victims
0:05:10 > 0:05:14of the Parkland school attack, but also those that came before it.
0:05:14 > 0:05:15Andrew Pollack's 18-year-old daughter, Meadow, was
0:05:15 > 0:05:17killed last week.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20It doesn't make sense, fix it, should have been one school shooting
0:05:20 > 0:05:25and we should have fixed it.
0:05:25 > 0:05:28And I'm ****ed.
0:05:28 > 0:05:34Because my daughter I'm not going to see again.
0:05:34 > 0:05:40She's not here, she's not here, she's in North Lauderdale
0:05:40 > 0:05:41or whatever it is, King David Cemetery,
0:05:41 > 0:05:44that's where I go to see my kid now.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47It doesn't make sense to her schoolmate, Samuel Zeif,
0:05:47 > 0:05:52either, especially the gunman's access to a semiautomatic rifle.
0:05:52 > 0:05:59I don't understand, I turned 18 the day after,
0:05:59 > 0:06:02woke up to the news that my best friend was gone and I don't
0:06:02 > 0:06:12understand why I could still go in a store and buy a weapon of war.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15The president has responded to calls for tougher gun laws with promises
0:06:15 > 0:06:18of strong background checks, but also more guns.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20It's called concealed carry, where a teacher
0:06:20 > 0:06:23would have a concealed gun on them.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26They'd go for special training.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29There is some support for that argument, but students who survived
0:06:29 > 0:06:31the attack flooded Florida's state legislature demanding a ban
0:06:31 > 0:06:35on assault rifles.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37ALL: Never again!
0:06:37 > 0:06:39The students aim to harness that momentum and turn it
0:06:39 > 0:06:41into a national campaign.
0:06:41 > 0:06:50Barbara Plett-Usher, BBC News.
0:06:50 > 0:06:54The UN Security Council will vote on a draft resolution later demanding a
0:06:54 > 0:06:57month-long ceasefire to the fighting in Syria. Reports suggest more than
0:06:57 > 0:07:05300 people have been killed in the area near Damascus since Sunday. The
0:07:05 > 0:07:11UN Secretary General as hell on earth in the rebel enclave. Theresa
0:07:11 > 0:07:14May will seek to overcome differences on Brexit amongst her
0:07:14 > 0:07:19senior ministers today. She will be chairing a meeting intended to
0:07:19 > 0:07:24hammer out the cabinet position on future relations with the EU, at
0:07:24 > 0:07:28Chequers. Norman Smith joins us from Westminster and I imagine this will
0:07:28 > 0:07:32be quite the awayday.It will be a long day and all of the signs are
0:07:32 > 0:07:36that it could go on until 10pm tonight as Theresa May tries to end
0:07:36 > 0:07:40the splits in her Cabinet over Brexit between those like Philip
0:07:40 > 0:07:44Hammond who want to remain close to EU rules and to guarantee access to
0:07:44 > 0:07:47the single market and those like Boris Johnson who want the freedom
0:07:47 > 0:07:55to diverged and pursue our own trade deals but there is almost certainly
0:07:55 > 0:07:59going to have to be a deal because the clock is ticking and if we want
0:07:59 > 0:08:05a trade deal by autumn we have to let the EU no what sort of package
0:08:05 > 0:08:13we want, and were Theresa May unable to get the Cabinet to move together,
0:08:13 > 0:08:18that would be a nightmare scenario because it would fuel perception of
0:08:18 > 0:08:23difference in the Cabinet, raise? About leadership and, frankly would
0:08:23 > 0:08:28say to EU negotiators that we were still at sixes and sevens and don't
0:08:28 > 0:08:37know what we want from rags -- raising questions about leadership.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40Centrica, the owner of British Gas, has said it will cut 4,000 jobs
0:08:40 > 0:08:41over the next two years.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44This morning the company, which employs around 33,000 people
0:08:44 > 0:08:47announced a big fall in profits and said that British Gas had lost
0:08:47 > 0:08:51nearly 10% of its UK domestic customers last year.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54People convicted of domestic abuse offences in England and Wales will
0:08:54 > 0:09:00be more likely to go to prison under new sentencing guidelines. The first
0:09:00 > 0:09:04time the guidance will say domestic offences should be treated more
0:09:04 > 0:09:07seriously than similar crimes that do not involve family members or
0:09:07 > 0:09:11partners.The new guidance will also extend a domestic abuse to include
0:09:11 > 0:09:15threats on social media.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19A helicopter carrying six British tourists on a flight near the Grand
0:09:19 > 0:09:24Canyon in the US spun around at least twice before crashing and
0:09:24 > 0:09:28catching fire according to investigators. Three passengers died
0:09:28 > 0:09:32in the accident earlier this month while for more people including the
0:09:32 > 0:09:36pilot were badly hurt. The preliminary report by air accident
0:09:36 > 0:09:41investigators does not say why the helicopter crashed.
0:09:41 > 0:09:46A month of strikes affecting 64 UK universities and 1 million students
0:09:46 > 0:09:50begins today. Lecturers are walking out over changes to their pensions
0:09:50 > 0:09:54which they say could leave them up to £10,000 per year worse off in
0:09:54 > 0:09:59retirement. Their employer, universities UK, says the pension
0:09:59 > 0:10:11scheme as a £6 billion deficit which cannot be ignored.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21# Theresa May, where's the money for Grenfell?
0:10:21 > 0:10:23# Well, you fool me, just forgot about Grenfell.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27A powerful political performance from grime star Stormzy.
0:10:27 > 0:10:32He won Best Male and Best Album for Gang Signs & Prayer.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34Gang Signs & Prayer, this was the hardest thing that I've
0:10:34 > 0:10:39ever worked on something like this in my life.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42Everything I put in that album, I didn't have anything left after.
0:10:42 > 0:10:44You can ask Fraser, we went in there, we made something
0:10:44 > 0:10:51that I thought was undeniable, I can stand by it today.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Gang Signs & Prayer, album of the year, I love you, guys.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56Thank you so much, man, thank you.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58# One, don't pick up the phone.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00# You know he's only calling 'cause he's drunk and alone.
0:11:00 > 0:11:01# Two, don't let him in...
0:11:01 > 0:11:03Two awards for 22-year-old Dua Lipa.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05She won Breakthrough Artist and Best Female.
0:11:05 > 0:11:07She paid tribute to the many women in music who'd influenced her.
0:11:07 > 0:11:14I want to thank every single female who has been on the stage performing
0:11:14 > 0:11:21who has given girls like me, not just girls in the music industry
0:11:21 > 0:11:24but girls in society, a place to be inspired by,
0:11:24 > 0:11:28to look up to, and that have allowed us to dream this big.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32There was a politically charged winner's speech
0:11:32 > 0:11:34clearly referencing Brexit from Blur star Damon Albarn whose band
0:11:34 > 0:11:40Gorillaz won Best British Group.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44This country is, believe it or not, quite a small little thing, right?
0:11:44 > 0:11:47But it's full of...it's a lovely place.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51What I want to say is, don't let it become isolated.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54# I'm only human, I do what I can.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56Rag'n'Bone Man won Best Single for his hit Human.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00Ed Sheeran received the Global Success award.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02And there was a special tribute from Liam Gallagher commemorating
0:12:02 > 0:12:06last month's Manchester Arena bombing.
0:12:07 > 0:12:12# Maybe I don't really wanna know how your garden grows...
0:12:13 > 0:12:18Lizo Mzimba, BBC News.
0:12:18 > 0:12:24That's your summary of the latest news. Back to Victoria. Thanks for
0:12:24 > 0:12:28your messages about antidepressants, and we are only speaking about this
0:12:28 > 0:12:32because scientists say they have settled one of medicine 's biggest
0:12:32 > 0:12:35debates after a hugely fan antidepressants work. We will talk
0:12:35 > 0:12:40in more detail about the study after ten a:m.. Gareth says if they
0:12:40 > 0:12:43prescribed properly for depression they can work but they are not the
0:12:43 > 0:12:48antibiotics of mental health. This tweet says, I take antidepressants,
0:12:48 > 0:12:51they don't cure the problem that they allow me to take a break to
0:12:51 > 0:12:59think. Prior to that I was suicidal. So for me, they've been a
0:12:59 > 0:13:02life-saver. I did try to come off them for a few months but the
0:13:02 > 0:13:09depression and darkness came Black so I went back on. Thank you for
0:13:09 > 0:13:12that, and we will feed your experiences into our conversation.
0:13:12 > 0:13:19You can send this e-mail. -- send us an e-mail.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21Let's get some sport with Hugh and some disappointment
0:13:21 > 0:13:25for Britain's men's curling team overnight.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28Yes, real disappointment that the Team GB men could not match the
0:13:28 > 0:13:31women by reaching the semifinals of the curling competition. They had
0:13:31 > 0:13:35one last chance to survive overnight, play-off against
0:13:35 > 0:13:39Switzerland but they were beaten 9-5, despite being ahead with two
0:13:39 > 0:13:43ends to play. The Swiss did something you don't see too often,
0:13:43 > 0:13:48scoring a 5-point stone in the penultimate end meaning they advance
0:13:48 > 0:13:53rather than Team GB. Disappointment for them, especially after taking a
0:13:53 > 0:14:00silver medal in the event four years ago. There was some good news for
0:14:00 > 0:14:05Dave Riding, finishing ninth in the men's slalom. He vowed to come back
0:14:05 > 0:14:08and Challenger in medal in Beijing in four years' time and he thinks he
0:14:08 > 0:14:12can do the same as a gold medallist and perform at the age of 35. We
0:14:12 > 0:14:17will see Dave riding again, and a good result in the men's slalom. A
0:14:17 > 0:14:21tense finish to the women's ice hockey final with the US winning a
0:14:21 > 0:14:25dramatic penalty shoot out in the women's final to take gold and stop
0:14:25 > 0:14:30Canada from winning their fifth straight title. The USA keeper was
0:14:30 > 0:14:33the hero, sparking those wild celebrations, and disappointment for
0:14:33 > 0:14:43the Canadians. Today the Russian curler who had won a mixed doubles
0:14:43 > 0:14:46bronze medal in the curling alongside his wife, today he has
0:14:46 > 0:14:50been stripped of the medal after admitting to doping. He was
0:14:50 > 0:14:54representing the Olympic athletes from the Russian team, one of a
0:14:54 > 0:15:00Russians allowed to compete as neutrals, despite the country being
0:15:00 > 0:15:02banned for the state-sponsored doping scandal. Not really the sort
0:15:02 > 0:15:06of story that the Russians sporting officials would have been hoping
0:15:06 > 0:15:10for.
0:15:10 > 0:15:11No goals for Manchester United
0:15:11 > 0:15:21in the Champions league at Sevilla but is that a good first leg result?
0:15:21 > 0:15:24Manchester United and Jose Mourinho taking a lot of flak in the back
0:15:24 > 0:15:28pages today, they never got going in that time. They were lucky to get
0:15:28 > 0:15:32away with a goalless draw against Serbia. The pre-match chat was
0:15:32 > 0:15:37around record signing Paul Pogba, on the bench. His exile was short
0:15:37 > 0:15:42lived, he was brought on after 60 minutes for the injured Ander
0:15:42 > 0:15:51Herrera. Severe had the best chances of the night, 25 shots on goal. Back
0:15:51 > 0:15:57in his native Spain, their keeper denied Manchester United a goal.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01They'll be back soon at Old Trafford.And Mark Cavendish has
0:16:01 > 0:16:10injured himself. Embarrassing for the organisers of the Abu Dhabi and
0:16:10 > 0:16:15tall. He lasted three miles. The pellets and took out one of the cars
0:16:15 > 0:16:20and his automatic braking system was activated suddenly, causing the
0:16:20 > 0:16:28crash. He injured his shoulder, and suffered concussion and whiplash and
0:16:28 > 0:16:34was forced to withdraw from the race so we hope he recovers well. Thank
0:16:34 > 0:16:38you, Hugh. More sports news from Hugh throughout the morning.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42It should have been a Tuesday night like any other in capital this week.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45Except two people were stabbed to death in the space of two hours.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48Less than a mile apart in Camden, in north London.
0:16:48 > 0:16:58Abdikarim Hassan was 17 and Sadiq Adan Mohamed was 20.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01Tragically, Sadiq's brother was also fatally
0:17:01 > 0:17:02stabbed back in September.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04He too was twenty years of age.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07The brother's "devastated" mother is calling for an end to knife crime.
0:17:07 > 0:17:13Lost two sons!
0:17:13 > 0:17:16You have lost two sons.
0:17:16 > 0:17:18Two sons, five months.
0:17:18 > 0:17:19Two stabbings.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21Yes.
0:17:21 > 0:17:29My sister's son.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31And you've said they were both good lads,
0:17:31 > 0:17:33educated, is there any chance they could have had enemies,
0:17:33 > 0:17:36could have been involved in gang culture of any kind?
0:17:36 > 0:17:37No, no, no.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39Do you think enough is being done to tackle knife crime?
0:17:40 > 0:17:50No.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03In my borough, Camden, all the boys go on streets with a knife.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06Since the start of the year, and we're only now in February,
0:18:06 > 0:18:09there have been SIXTEEN fatal stabbings in the capital.
0:18:09 > 0:18:09Five of those were teenagers.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11It comes as knife crime nationally has increased rapidly
0:18:11 > 0:18:13over the last few years.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15There were a total of 80 deaths from stabbings in 2017 -
0:18:16 > 0:18:17the most in almost a decade.
0:18:17 > 0:18:18So what's going on?
0:18:18 > 0:18:21And what can, and should, be done to stop the rise in knife crime?
0:18:21 > 0:18:24Let's speak now to victims, campaigners and politicians to see
0:18:24 > 0:18:26what ideas they have to tackle this growing issue.
0:18:26 > 0:18:36Alison Cope, whose son Joshua was fatally stabbed aged 18 in 2013.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42Paul Barnes, whose son Quamari was stabbed to death last year aged
0:18:42 > 0:18:4315.
0:18:43 > 0:18:52Paul has been on the programme before, his son was 15 when he died.
0:18:52 > 0:18:57Claire van Helfteren from Capital Conflict Management -
0:18:57 > 0:19:02an organisation that mediates between gang members.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05Shaun Bailey, a Conservative London Assembly Member.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07Dal Babu - former Chief Superintendent, Metropolitan Police.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09Alika Agidi-Jeffs, who grew up around gangs as a boy,
0:19:09 > 0:19:12two of his friends have been stabbed to death.
0:19:12 > 0:19:17Louise Haigh, Labour MP and shadow policing minister.
0:19:17 > 0:19:24Elena Noel, trustee of the charity Growing Against Violence.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28Thank you all for coming on the programme. Alison, I would like to
0:19:28 > 0:19:34begin with you. Tell our audience what happened to your son.My son
0:19:34 > 0:19:39Joshua went out to a party on Friday night and never came home. He was
0:19:39 > 0:19:43followed and said the club and stabbed once in the heart. Fought
0:19:43 > 0:19:51hard to stay alive but died on September 21 in 2013.How do you
0:19:51 > 0:20:00cope with that?I survive. Time hasn't made it better. I do my best
0:20:00 > 0:20:05and I put my grief into keeping my son's name alive and talking about
0:20:05 > 0:20:08him in prisons in the West Midlands and around the country.Google talk
0:20:08 > 0:20:15about your work further today because you think that has an effect
0:20:15 > 0:20:19and stops people carrying knives which is the whole purpose of this
0:20:19 > 0:20:23conversation. Paul, thank you again for coming on the programme. You
0:20:23 > 0:20:27have spent the last year adjusting to the loss of one of your children.
0:20:27 > 0:20:33Can you describe what that is like? Very hard. Especially when you see
0:20:33 > 0:20:38more kids losing their life the same way. Nothing has changed in the last
0:20:38 > 0:20:42year. It's getting a lot was out there. It is hard to get over the
0:20:42 > 0:20:50death of my son, nothing has been done about it.Is that what people
0:20:50 > 0:20:57generally feel, that nothing has been done about it?Things are being
0:20:57 > 0:21:02done but unfortunately it's kind of overshadowed by the fact that it is
0:21:02 > 0:21:06still not enough. I feel and unfortunately there's a lot of
0:21:06 > 0:21:09tokenism, one small thing getting down and then the people in power
0:21:09 > 0:21:17who can do more going, well, we've done that. It's like doing 1% out of
0:21:17 > 0:21:22a hundred, and just saying, well, we started. It's not enough for the
0:21:22 > 0:21:29families.Lots of organisations are doing good work but if you look at
0:21:29 > 0:21:35Scotland, they've actually reduced crime...Three weeks ago on this
0:21:35 > 0:21:40programme we did look at what they've done.It's a coordinated
0:21:40 > 0:21:43response. The problem with funding is that everyone is fighting for the
0:21:43 > 0:21:47same pot of money, they will maybe hold onto it and not collaborate
0:21:47 > 0:21:55with organisations which could be helpful.You focused on Camden in
0:21:55 > 0:21:58your introduction Victoria, I worked there for five years and I know it
0:21:58 > 0:22:02well. I think what we need to look at is not the funding of
0:22:02 > 0:22:08organisations that are here but looking at policing reduction costs.
0:22:08 > 0:22:09Leasing has been reduced by over
0:22:09 > 0:22:19Leasing has been reduced by over 20%.
0:22:21 > 0:22:26Do you think there's definitely a link between the reduction in
0:22:26 > 0:22:33policing cuts?There's been a significant reduction in PC sales
0:22:33 > 0:22:36and the number of police officers reduced, it's an issue across the
0:22:36 > 0:22:44country. It shouldn't just be about policing. It should be about how we
0:22:44 > 0:22:49coordinate other issues so I'm very disappointed in Ofsted who should do
0:22:49 > 0:22:52more to safeguard our children in schools. It's just appalling that
0:22:52 > 0:22:57they don't have the leadership to do that. Because we need to change the
0:22:57 > 0:23:04way we deal with knife crime in the way we dealt with bullying. 30 years
0:23:04 > 0:23:08ago no school would admit to a bullying problem, now every school
0:23:08 > 0:23:10has a bullying policy. I don't know a single adult who hasn't been
0:23:10 > 0:23:19bullied. We need to put that pressure on Ofsted.And just want to
0:23:19 > 0:23:22bring in Shaun Bailey, Conservative London assembly member. I have you
0:23:22 > 0:23:27what the government has been doing regarding knife crime. In the spring
0:23:27 > 0:23:29that launching their new serious violence strategy because they say
0:23:29 > 0:23:37tackling knife crime needs a new way of thinking. So they are consulting
0:23:37 > 0:23:42on creating offences to prevent knives being sold online, making it
0:23:42 > 0:23:47an offence to possess certain offensive weapons in Private, and so
0:23:47 > 0:23:52forth plus various bits of money to organisations and fans. What do you
0:23:52 > 0:23:57say to what the former Chief Superintendent from the Matt says
0:23:57 > 0:24:02about reductions in police, -- from the Metropolitan Police, and the
0:24:02 > 0:24:10link between that and rising knife crime?I would say it's the culture
0:24:10 > 0:24:15of young people in general, but the second thing, about the police, we
0:24:15 > 0:24:19currently have slightly more police than we had in 2013 which was the
0:24:19 > 0:24:23low point from a numbers point of view, of young people dying in
0:24:23 > 0:24:27London so I don't see the direct link between resources in the same
0:24:27 > 0:24:32way that the former officer did. That's not true, that's not true.
0:24:32 > 0:24:37When I left the police in 2013 there were 32 1/2-dozen. We are now on
0:24:37 > 0:24:4630,000. The trajectory used to go down... We need to look at figures
0:24:46 > 0:24:50please. Page two and a half thousand to 30,000, is what you say is not
0:24:50 > 0:24:55true. The figures have gone down. Here's my point, it's the
0:24:55 > 0:24:58relationship the police have with the communities that suffer from
0:24:58 > 0:25:04knife crime at most. The relationship is no better now, stop
0:25:04 > 0:25:07and search is rejected because it should be supported, it's an
0:25:07 > 0:25:12important way to make sure people just can't carry a knife around, and
0:25:12 > 0:25:15you get some intelligence that the police can use. Those elements of
0:25:15 > 0:25:19the puzzle to solve the problem not there. There are a number of things
0:25:19 > 0:25:23that no one activity will solve this problem, a number of things that
0:25:23 > 0:25:29need to be done, the enforcement pot is important but not the only part.
0:25:29 > 0:25:33You have to accept that police numbers have gone down.The
0:25:33 > 0:25:36relationship between the police and the communities that suffer from
0:25:36 > 0:25:42this, the number stabbed a fact that.All communities are suffering.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45There's not one kind of community that's suffering. So that's not
0:25:45 > 0:25:55really an argument.Knife crime isn't this you for all Londoners.
0:25:55 > 0:26:01It's about families all around the country.Excuse me. It is a concern
0:26:01 > 0:26:04for everyone but particular communities suffer from it in the
0:26:04 > 0:26:12most. The black community.I don't agree. Because I am white and my
0:26:12 > 0:26:19son, you know, he wasn't black.It's unfortunate that the black community
0:26:19 > 0:26:24are dying more. And to stem that without any relationship between
0:26:24 > 0:26:29them and the police...Solution lies that the two things I want to add.
0:26:29 > 0:26:35What the police were doing they forgot was adding more officers from
0:26:35 > 0:26:38all different backgrounds. That was working when they started it, they
0:26:38 > 0:26:45need to go back to that. The other solution is, I feel like, they need
0:26:45 > 0:26:50to make knife crime and bigger offence, if not as much an offence
0:26:50 > 0:26:54as carrying a gun because it has proven that knives are more
0:26:54 > 0:27:01dangerous than guns. Why are they not treated alike in law?I feel we
0:27:01 > 0:27:08may have jumped a couple of steps. I'm not criticising you, we've got
0:27:08 > 0:27:11plenty of time, honestly. We are not just going to scratch the surface of
0:27:11 > 0:27:22this issue. We haven't addressed why people are carrying knives. Louise?
0:27:22 > 0:27:26The fundamental bedrock of our policing model in this country,
0:27:26 > 0:27:30while it is envied the world over, has been destroyed because
0:27:30 > 0:27:34neighbourhood policing has been decimated. As you rightly said this
0:27:34 > 0:27:40isn't just a London problem. Last year violent crime in the
0:27:40 > 0:27:44Metropolitan Police increased by 2%, in South Yorkshire 62%. It is a huge
0:27:44 > 0:27:49issue across the country. You can't look at that outside the context of
0:27:49 > 0:27:54the decimation of neighbourhood policing. Two thirds of PCS owes in
0:27:54 > 0:28:01London and cuts to all those other preventative and early intervention
0:28:01 > 0:28:05services, 350 million taken out in the last two years, we've taken away
0:28:05 > 0:28:10the ability of the police to enforce the issue but we are also taking
0:28:10 > 0:28:16away all those schemes and services that looked at early intervention.
0:28:16 > 0:28:23That's critical. Early intervention and prevention. Statistics around my
0:28:23 > 0:28:27crime, it is more prevalent in younger aged children now. They are
0:28:27 > 0:28:36getting involved in it.How young? From seven.Seven-year-olds are
0:28:36 > 0:28:41carrying knives?They are, getting involved in and around criminal
0:28:41 > 0:28:48activity?To you know that for a fact, seven-year-olds carrying
0:28:48 > 0:28:58knives?I remember hearing that. Why? Fear?Peer pressure as well?
0:28:58 > 0:29:05Inability to manage conflict. We are not teaching our children how to
0:29:05 > 0:29:08manage conflict, in schools or our terms of the reaction is to pick up
0:29:08 > 0:29:16a knife. We did not start? For me, someone who has seen both sides of
0:29:16 > 0:29:20it, social media and mental health. It's a vast thing that it
0:29:20 > 0:29:26encompasses a lot of it with regard to the fact that a lot of people are
0:29:26 > 0:29:32being ignored and social media is showing them extreme images that can
0:29:32 > 0:29:36desensitise them. And mental health, being able to cope with the peer
0:29:36 > 0:29:39pressure, and knowing that if the person down the road is threatening
0:29:39 > 0:29:44you with a knife you don't have to pick up one. Things like that.
0:29:44 > 0:29:50Whether it be a prison, a school, senior school, have to thousands and
0:29:50 > 0:29:55thousands of young people and asked them why they carry knives?
0:29:55 > 0:30:00Protection, production, protection. We are feeding our in people through
0:30:00 > 0:30:04technology. It's scary. And unfortunately, not everyone but we
0:30:04 > 0:30:08have a new Society of young people growing up through social media. If
0:30:08 > 0:30:13they go on the news and see programmes like this about knife
0:30:13 > 0:30:17crime in London and Birmingham, they are frightened and a lot of them are
0:30:17 > 0:30:21walking away from home into areas that the government should be
0:30:21 > 0:30:26ashamed of. They need to invest in those areas, adds to the police,
0:30:26 > 0:30:29make young people feel safer, support the ones who are struggling
0:30:29 > 0:30:34and help the families.
0:30:34 > 0:30:41I will then ask what they are afraid. I live in London, I'm a
0:30:41 > 0:30:44mother of two sons aged 18 and 24 and every evening they go out I
0:30:44 > 0:30:48cannot sleep till they come home. I worry if they are safe or not and I
0:30:48 > 0:30:52am so relieved when I hear the keys turn on the loch. Living in London
0:30:52 > 0:30:57has become a nightmare for many, young people and parents alike. Many
0:30:57 > 0:31:02people I talk to now want to leave London or the UK. Ordinary people
0:31:02 > 0:31:06have been left behind and concerns neglected. If young people in
0:31:06 > 0:31:10Chelsea and Mayfair were stabbing one another, I'm sure more would be
0:31:10 > 0:31:15done. We have become a sad, callous and divided country. This text says
0:31:15 > 0:31:19give the police to do the power they do their job. Young people have no
0:31:19 > 0:31:22respect for the police. They must be able to stop and search anyone they
0:31:22 > 0:31:27like without fear of being labelled racist. Nobody cares unless they can
0:31:27 > 0:31:31be seen to be a liberal thinker. Time to wake up and get law and
0:31:31 > 0:31:37order back on the streets before we need the Army. The Labour Mayor of
0:31:37 > 0:31:40London, Sadiq Khan, talked about increasing stop and search and I
0:31:40 > 0:31:46have the quote somewhere. Louise, is that the answer?I think stop and
0:31:46 > 0:31:53searches are really important tool in fighting knife crime. I used it
0:31:53 > 0:31:56several times as an officer and there have been concerns about
0:31:56 > 0:32:00numbers slipping back because police officers don't have the confidence
0:32:00 > 0:32:03to use it because they fear if there is not a result at the end of it
0:32:03 > 0:32:08they will be criticised or hold true for an internal complaint. Officers
0:32:08 > 0:32:12need to have the confidence to it but it has to be intelligence led
0:32:12 > 0:32:17and within the law and within best practice.It also needs to be done
0:32:17 > 0:32:26in partnership with the communities. In Southwark, as co-chairman of the
0:32:26 > 0:32:29safe neighbourhood board, we had a lot of community dialogue about the
0:32:29 > 0:32:32fact that we are one of the borrowers with the highest levels of
0:32:32 > 0:32:39knife crime but also that what the caveats -- one of the borrowers. We
0:32:39 > 0:32:42need to have the engagement with the community because there are issues
0:32:42 > 0:32:48of disproportionality. And there is a broad consensus with some.
0:32:48 > 0:32:55Haringey Council, Camden, we started a thing with the Metropolitan Police
0:32:55 > 0:32:58showing them how stop and search can be done that would be acceptable for
0:32:58 > 0:33:02young people and how it feels for us and then Haringey and Camden did the
0:33:02 > 0:33:06same and it was successful. They need to focus back on that, invest
0:33:06 > 0:33:11in the community. The answers are in the community that they need to work
0:33:11 > 0:33:16with them.Are you saying that a rise in stop and searches will help
0:33:16 > 0:33:22tackle knife crime?Definitely.To echo that point, stop and searches
0:33:22 > 0:33:26have to be done well so you have to look at how police are trained and
0:33:26 > 0:33:30how young people are instructed will stop they have body cameras now, so
0:33:30 > 0:33:35how often are they use? Stop and search sends a powerful message
0:33:35 > 0:33:41saying you cannot walk around armed and you will be stopped. The police
0:33:41 > 0:33:46can do more directed stop and search because the injustice of it is how
0:33:46 > 0:33:49disproportional it is that you are being stopped and what to being
0:33:49 > 0:33:54stopped for. The police find great support when they do stop and search
0:33:54 > 0:33:59around knife crime, but it's when they do other things it breaks down.
0:33:59 > 0:34:02Shaun is absolutely right. The body cameras have made a huge difference
0:34:02 > 0:34:05because police officers understand that they will be viewed. But I want
0:34:05 > 0:34:12to focus on one point and the issue of technology. It is absolutely
0:34:12 > 0:34:17appalling the way that Google have allowed you chew banned videos of
0:34:17 > 0:34:28violence -- you chew have allowed videos of violence -- YouTube.They
0:34:28 > 0:34:34say they try to take them down.They are not doing enough.Are you saying
0:34:34 > 0:34:38predominantly young men are going on to various websites and channels to
0:34:38 > 0:34:50have a look at violent videos?Even the females.They send them.It is
0:34:50 > 0:34:53setting a culture of fear firstly, everybody else is armed, so I'd
0:34:53 > 0:34:59better be, but it's also a culture of this respect. The only way to
0:34:59 > 0:35:05negotiate with someone is to affect them heavily. There is a show show
0:35:05 > 0:35:11peaks -- eight social peace we have to do.It highlights the problems
0:35:11 > 0:35:17within communities and families. We are a blame society. We blame the
0:35:17 > 0:35:22parents Tom why aren't the parents doing enough? I understand and
0:35:22 > 0:35:27appreciate that are not all parents have the resources and capabilities
0:35:27 > 0:35:31to do the best they could be doing and we need to support these parents
0:35:31 > 0:35:37if they are struggling with many things, poverty, depression, it's
0:35:37 > 0:35:40going to be very hard to guide children in the way they should be
0:35:40 > 0:35:46and we need to be helping them to be better parents. Watching all these
0:35:46 > 0:35:51things that are negative, they have a voice in the background saying it
0:35:51 > 0:35:58is not OK. Unfortunately that is missing in many households.If you
0:35:58 > 0:36:01talk to young people and the ones who come out of the other end of
0:36:01 > 0:36:10getting involved in gangs, the ones that have security to fall back on
0:36:10 > 0:36:18our 100% more likely to come out the other side.What to fall back on?Is
0:36:18 > 0:36:24it your family background or someone who cares about them. When we talk
0:36:24 > 0:36:28about knife crime we bring out ex-gang members and whilst they have
0:36:28 > 0:36:34a powerful story to tell the story that is not being told, that is the
0:36:34 > 0:36:39young man who made different choices. Why aren't we asking them.
0:36:39 > 0:36:45How did you make those different choices? How did you get involved in
0:36:45 > 0:36:52illegal activity, drug dealing.What is the answer? You are a young man,
0:36:52 > 0:37:01I conceive.The answer to that is, again, it is the family support. The
0:37:01 > 0:37:06first Meyer carried a knife my mum and sister saw it and I remember the
0:37:06 > 0:37:09slap around the head I got and the explanation of it doesn't matter how
0:37:09 > 0:37:14many bullies there are at school, you talk to us and deal with it.
0:37:14 > 0:37:18That is simply the answer. But to add on what you said, it's totally
0:37:18 > 0:37:23right when people try to blame the parents. I always say the analogy
0:37:23 > 0:37:30is, if a child gets taught to plus two equals three, do you blame the
0:37:30 > 0:37:34child or who taught them? They can have the best background but if
0:37:34 > 0:37:40social media, if they see on a normal basis from their friends, the
0:37:40 > 0:37:44world, you cannot protect your child from the world but if they are still
0:37:44 > 0:37:47pushing that let it be pushed that it is normal, somebody getting
0:37:47 > 0:37:55slashed or hit with a chair, then that will get into their psyche.Do
0:37:55 > 0:38:01you think the link with what you see on social media was relevant to the
0:38:01 > 0:38:06death of your son?Social media was the main part. This boy came from
0:38:06 > 0:38:10the other side of London and had no way of connecting with each other.
0:38:10 > 0:38:17It starts trouble. It gets kids into arguments and they seem to want to
0:38:17 > 0:38:22carry it on.We have mediated a large number of situations where a
0:38:22 > 0:38:27group of boys have put up a video disrespecting another group in
0:38:27 > 0:38:32another part of London and four boys have ended up being stabbed over a
0:38:32 > 0:38:38social media video.It goes deeper than that. It goes to the mental
0:38:38 > 0:38:42well-being of young people. We talk about mental health and its
0:38:42 > 0:38:46associated baggage, but what about the mental well-being?Social media
0:38:46 > 0:38:54is allowing people to do that.Why that is important is if you can have
0:38:54 > 0:38:58a young child who goes out into the world and we tried to build their
0:38:58 > 0:39:01resilience. What social media actually is is a tool to express how
0:39:01 > 0:39:06they feel full -- feel. If they can't communicate across London,
0:39:06 > 0:39:11they will do it to people across London. What is normal? How does a
0:39:11 > 0:39:19job reject a bad mode of behaviour? Explanation. Education. Education
0:39:19 > 0:39:24for communities, the young people. It has to be coordinated.When you
0:39:24 > 0:39:27talk to young people about what happened to your son, do you say to
0:39:27 > 0:39:33them, and you must not carry a knife?Never. What I do, or try and
0:39:33 > 0:39:39do, I see 19-year-old young men wiping tears from their eyes because
0:39:39 > 0:39:47I've suddenly taken this fake existence and reality to their heart
0:39:47 > 0:39:51and home because what you see and do, let's take a step back here, you
0:39:51 > 0:39:55go out with a knife, your choice, you go out with a knife and stab
0:39:55 > 0:39:58someone and that's your choice. Who is the one person you leave behind
0:39:58 > 0:40:05at home when you make the choice? Their brain thinks, I live with my
0:40:05 > 0:40:12mum, my Nan, my sister. You flip it and make them feel. Young people
0:40:12 > 0:40:16don't want to be told. They are sick of being told how to behave. Don't
0:40:16 > 0:40:21do this, don't do that. We need to show and lead by example and help
0:40:21 > 0:40:29them.On schools, like you are saying, they teach about going to
0:40:29 > 0:40:32get condom is, but they should be teaching about where to go when you
0:40:32 > 0:40:40need mental support or rather than bringing in metal detectors in
0:40:40 > 0:40:46school, bring back peer mentors who work in the school. If we talk about
0:40:46 > 0:40:49knife crime, even on a programme like this, unfortunately some young
0:40:49 > 0:40:53people, the message they get is that knife crime is scary so I need to
0:40:53 > 0:40:59protect myself. But if you lead by example, I did an event when I was
0:40:59 > 0:41:04starting youth work, it was basically dancing instead of
0:41:04 > 0:41:09stabbing and the stabbing happened in the event. And we called it just
0:41:09 > 0:41:13dance, there was no stabbing next time. You are subconsciously pushing
0:41:13 > 0:41:23it.They suffer from low self-esteem.Which young people?The
0:41:23 > 0:41:30ones involving knife crime. They are carrying knives to feel better? It
0:41:30 > 0:41:34is about self-esteem, low confidence, peer pressure and not
0:41:34 > 0:41:37having people around them to help them to reflect and think about what
0:41:37 > 0:41:42they are doing.Chelsea tweets that while knives are easily accessible
0:41:42 > 0:41:46many youngsters are susceptible to being stabbed. Youngsters need
0:41:46 > 0:41:53reprogramming, mentally. This text says more community police officers
0:41:53 > 0:41:58and local knowledge is the key. Tony on Facebook says tougher sentences.
0:41:58 > 0:42:03Anyone caught carrying a knife, five years and no less.It is more
0:42:03 > 0:42:08dangerous than a gun. I used to go to cadets and that is the first
0:42:08 > 0:42:17thing they teach you, knife is more dangerous.What would Labour do
0:42:17 > 0:42:20about tackling knife crime?You mentioned the Scotland example and
0:42:20 > 0:42:23all of these things are true but Scottish children are accepted to
0:42:23 > 0:42:28the same type of pressures but not a single Scottish young person was
0:42:28 > 0:42:31stabbed to death last year so they have taken the coordination role and
0:42:31 > 0:42:35treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal justice
0:42:35 > 0:42:40issue.They have looked at mental health, background etc?They say
0:42:40 > 0:42:43they want to have the safest and healthiest generation of young
0:42:43 > 0:42:46people and all it takes is political will. Scotland have been subject to
0:42:46 > 0:42:51the same level of cuts to the rest of the UK.You would put more money
0:42:51 > 0:42:57into this area? A public health issue rather than just criminal?
0:42:57 > 0:43:05Don't all talk over each other. No point.There are a few things. We
0:43:05 > 0:43:08need to continue the early intervention and prevention work
0:43:08 > 0:43:12that is in schools with younger children and older ones, so that is
0:43:12 > 0:43:17an ongoing programme.No one would disagree with that, but who will pay
0:43:17 > 0:43:26for it?I would be more than happy to pay taxes for that. When I was in
0:43:26 > 0:43:31Camden who worked innovatively with the local authority and had Sir
0:43:31 > 0:43:35Quentin Blake, long who spoke to gang members, the children's
0:43:35 > 0:43:38illustrator and it stop the violence between these gangs and we took a
0:43:38 > 0:43:43group of children to Belfast.What did he say to them?They were more
0:43:43 > 0:43:46interested in seeing him and he talked about the unpleasant
0:43:46 > 0:43:50characters he drew and he talked about doing good and this is not the
0:43:50 > 0:43:54kind of opportunities these children would normally get. You could hear a
0:43:54 > 0:43:59pin drop while he sat there and drew the figures. We took the children to
0:43:59 > 0:44:03Belfast and they could see the impact of the violence between
0:44:03 > 0:44:07Catholics and Protestants so we need to be more innovative. I am really
0:44:07 > 0:44:12keen to make sure we put some resources, more resources, paying
0:44:12 > 0:44:17more and having greater taxation and giving money to the wonderful work
0:44:17 > 0:44:23people here are doing.I am going to pause there because our time is up.
0:44:23 > 0:44:26Messages from people watching you from around the country, Hayden says
0:44:26 > 0:44:30stop knife crime by getting young people back into community services
0:44:30 > 0:44:35in positive role model roles. Ban the sale of knives to anyone under
0:44:35 > 0:44:39the age of 25 and have metal detectors in schools and stop
0:44:39 > 0:44:44children playing overrating crime games. Chuck says gangs thrive on
0:44:44 > 0:44:49poverty and despair and operate is low policing. The government have
0:44:49 > 0:44:53created the fertile environment that gangs need to lure the
0:44:53 > 0:44:57disenfranchised. Tim says, many of the same parents that are tragically
0:44:57 > 0:45:02lost their children to knives have desensitised their children by
0:45:02 > 0:45:05buying them non-age-appropriate games where killing with knives is
0:45:05 > 0:45:09fun and entertainment. Society is also to blame for allowing this to
0:45:09 > 0:45:15happen. Chopping, machete attacks, sat in isolation in their bedrooms
0:45:15 > 0:45:22has been normalised. What do you think of that?I agree, that part of
0:45:22 > 0:45:25the work I do is to show a video game which shows the choice of a
0:45:25 > 0:45:30knife or a fist and they laugh. Because that is what they are used
0:45:30 > 0:45:33to, but then I take it to the next level and take it from a game to
0:45:33 > 0:45:43reality. It is an education for them that it it is not real.We
0:45:43 > 0:45:49definitely need to work more closely with Scotland and to what they did.
0:45:49 > 0:45:52A government statement, every death from knife crime is a tragedy and
0:45:52 > 0:45:56this government is determined to break the deadly cycle and protect
0:45:56 > 0:46:01our children and communities. It requires a new way of thinking. Our
0:46:01 > 0:46:05strategy will be published in the spring...How many more young people
0:46:05 > 0:46:10will die before that is my point. My son was killed four and a half years
0:46:10 > 0:46:13ago and he's not the last person to be stabbed, he's one of many, many,
0:46:13 > 0:46:18many. The government release something that they are not
0:46:18 > 0:46:23listening to what actually works.I will have to pause you there, really
0:46:23 > 0:46:26sorry. Thank you all for coming, I really appreciate your time. Thank
0:46:26 > 0:46:32you. The latest migration figures are just out and net migration has
0:46:32 > 0:46:41fallen by 29,000 two 244,000 in the year to last September. New figures
0:46:41 > 0:46:46just out, second set of full data since the UK voted to leave the EU
0:46:46 > 0:46:50in June 20 16. Still short of the government target to reduce net
0:46:50 > 0:46:55migration to the tens of thousands. Net migration is the difference
0:46:55 > 0:46:58between people coming to the UK figure or more and those leaving
0:46:58 > 0:47:04Britain. So it is estimated to have fallen to 244,000 in the year to
0:47:04 > 0:47:07last September.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10Martha Lane Fox - the entrepreneur, digital activist and founder
0:47:10 > 0:47:12of lastminute dot com - wants to sort out the internet.
0:47:12 > 0:47:16A big job.
0:47:16 > 0:47:18Today, she's calling for an ombudsman for the internet
0:47:18 > 0:47:21who would enforce rules to make sure standards are upheld and would also
0:47:21 > 0:47:24be the person people would turn to when things go wrong.
0:47:24 > 0:47:27We'll talk to her in a moment about that.
0:47:27 > 0:47:36But first here's everything you need to know about her.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39Lastminute.com is one of the UK's leading tech entrepreneurs. Never
0:47:39 > 0:47:44far from the limelight, she has been a high profile campaign of remaining
0:47:44 > 0:47:48in the EU, encouraging more boardroom diversity and increasing
0:47:48 > 0:47:53female representation in the texts sector. She came to prominence after
0:47:53 > 0:47:59finding lastminute.com, offering cheap holiday deals and fast became
0:47:59 > 0:48:07the UK's largest travel website, when it was sold and was followed at
0:48:07 > 0:48:10£577 million. But in 2004 she suffered a personal setback when she
0:48:10 > 0:48:15was injured in a near fatal road accident in Morocco resulting in
0:48:15 > 0:48:21multiple operations and a long spell in hospital. From 2009 to 2013
0:48:21 > 0:48:25mother worked for government as the UK's Digital champion, advising
0:48:25 > 0:48:30ministers on how to increase efficiency by providing services
0:48:30 > 0:48:34online. She then became the youngest female member of the House of Lords
0:48:34 > 0:48:38where she sits as a crossbench peer and later a non-executive director
0:48:38 > 0:48:46of Twitter. In the 2016 referendum she campaigned to remain and is now
0:48:46 > 0:48:50part of the newly launched is it worth it campaign which asks if the
0:48:50 > 0:48:55UK would be better off staying in the EU despite having voted to
0:48:55 > 0:49:01leave. The campaign argues that the public has the right to change its
0:49:01 > 0:49:05mind and reverse the decision if it sees fit. Mother is still one of the
0:49:05 > 0:49:09most influential voices in the UK tech sector and advises on how the
0:49:09 > 0:49:16Internet should be governed. She founded a think tank which tries to
0:49:16 > 0:49:24reduce inequalities brought about by technology. And she is with me. Good
0:49:24 > 0:49:28morning. Let's talk about this server you've done, you spoke to
0:49:28 > 0:49:342500 people about the Internet, some on line, some on the phone, what did
0:49:34 > 0:49:39people generally feel about it?It was interesting that no one had done
0:49:39 > 0:49:43this before, I spend a lot of time asking people how they feel about
0:49:43 > 0:49:46the Internet and no numbers had been put at that were statistically
0:49:46 > 0:49:51significant. It is good that it is fair, there were some headlines, the
0:49:51 > 0:49:56first, not surprisingly, most people, over 50%, value what the
0:49:56 > 0:50:00Internet offers. We know that 90% of people use it every day, whether
0:50:00 > 0:50:04searching for things, buying things, comparing deals, looking at maps,
0:50:04 > 0:50:08all the things you know well. The thing that really surprised me,
0:50:08 > 0:50:11though, was the even though the majority of people said they could
0:50:11 > 0:50:16see the benefit to them, only 12% said they could see the benefit to
0:50:16 > 0:50:24society at a macro level. That's quite a disparity.Why are people
0:50:24 > 0:50:29worried about the effect on society? A bunch of things. No doubt that in
0:50:29 > 0:50:34the last year know there has been what people are calling a tech -
0:50:34 > 0:50:40lash. Sudbury view in what -- a sort of a review of the way companies
0:50:40 > 0:50:47operating. It's hard to get a handle on this stuff. It's not like you can
0:50:47 > 0:50:54see it, go into a high street and get a sense of how did they treat
0:50:54 > 0:50:57their workers, you good web page and it is hard to know what is behind
0:50:57 > 0:51:00it. People are becoming increasingly concerned with that lack of
0:51:00 > 0:51:08visibility.Having read the report, one quote really. A number of codes
0:51:08 > 0:51:15stood out. Someone said, in other industries, somebody rips you of you
0:51:15 > 0:51:19go to the ombudsman. I don't know if there's one for the Internet, there
0:51:19 > 0:51:25isn't, if there is one, who is it? So that lead you to call for an
0:51:25 > 0:51:29independent regulator.This is quite a nuanced issue. There are places
0:51:29 > 0:51:33you can go but I think people don't know about them so you can go to the
0:51:33 > 0:51:38Internet Commissioner 's office, you can go to the Ombudsman, there are
0:51:38 > 0:51:42consumer rights organisations as well, but and is confusing and
0:51:42 > 0:51:48messy. You only have to look at, let's look at serious crime online.
0:51:48 > 0:51:52The police get overloaded with people coming to them when to no
0:51:52 > 0:51:59fault of any ones they don't have the expertise to sort this out. It's
0:51:59 > 0:52:05hard to know whether it is serious or not serious. Anything from, I am
0:52:05 > 0:52:08nervous about what has happened to my data to, I want to complain about
0:52:08 > 0:52:14what went wrong with this transaction. It pays into a bigot
0:52:14 > 0:52:20picture of, we need to help all our policy to understand the Internet
0:52:20 > 0:52:25and make it fit for purpose and 2018 and that is a big challenge for
0:52:25 > 0:52:30society.Is not about lessons in schools?It'll take a long time to
0:52:30 > 0:52:34come through. I sit in Parliament and my perception is that to the
0:52:34 > 0:52:39fold to know one, it is just experience, hard for people who are
0:52:39 > 0:52:42making laws and influencing those who make laws to have had the
0:52:42 > 0:52:45experience of the Internet that I have had because I've worked in it
0:52:45 > 0:52:55all my life and yet I'm still often confused! So how can we help people
0:52:55 > 0:52:58in the public sector have a higher level of digital understanding? And
0:52:58 > 0:53:00one thing we want from the report is to encourage the government to think
0:53:00 > 0:53:02about how it can help its own employees to understand the Internet
0:53:02 > 0:53:08but all of us at a more macro level. You mentioned at the beginning that
0:53:08 > 0:53:11it has had a strongly positive impact on our lives as individuals.
0:53:11 > 0:53:16And that is a good thing. We need to remember that in all the time we
0:53:16 > 0:53:21talk about the worrying thing. Absolutely right, be lucky, I've
0:53:21 > 0:53:26worked in technology all my working life. I think back to the early days
0:53:26 > 0:53:32of lastminute.com. People did not really believe that people would but
0:53:32 > 0:53:35there are credit cards into the Internet. And now look at what you
0:53:35 > 0:53:42can do. Even listening to, people talking about knife crime, the fact
0:53:42 > 0:53:45that social media can get messages out there, these are all
0:53:45 > 0:53:49extraordinarily positive things. It's important to remember that.
0:53:49 > 0:53:53I've worked on helping people who don't have access to the Internet
0:53:53 > 0:53:58and getting access to the Internet, we still are digitally divided
0:53:58 > 0:54:04society. It's a force for good but we can help make it more responsible
0:54:04 > 0:54:08and help us as citizens and users feel more sure and confident about
0:54:08 > 0:54:16the things that we are doing.I would like to ask you about Twitter.
0:54:16 > 0:54:20It was recently revealed that your Twitter account had been buying
0:54:20 > 0:54:24followers. What action have you taken?I can't talk about the
0:54:24 > 0:54:28company, as a director but I can tell you about this. I had someone
0:54:28 > 0:54:32working for me a few years ago who mistakenly thought it was a good
0:54:32 > 0:54:38idea to buy some rich. I don't think she knew she was buying something
0:54:38 > 0:54:41that was fake. We don't work together any more. I take
0:54:41 > 0:54:46responsibility for this. It was a large arrow. Part of a larger
0:54:46 > 0:54:49problem about how companies are building up this idea that you can
0:54:49 > 0:54:53get access to people and therefore have more eyeballs in front of what
0:54:53 > 0:54:59you say, that is marginally smaller is you in my own personal history.
0:54:59 > 0:55:03Thank you for talking to. Martha Lane Fox.
0:55:03 > 0:55:04Coming up,
0:55:04 > 0:55:08we'll be discussing last night's surprise results at the Brit Awards.
0:55:08 > 0:55:19British album of the year goes to Stormzy.
0:55:21 > 0:55:25The South London grime star had a great night, will tell you about all
0:55:25 > 0:55:34the winners and losers. New net migration figures have been
0:55:34 > 0:55:45released, the number of people, net migration, that is, the disparity
0:55:45 > 0:55:51between the number of people leaving the UK and coming to the UK has
0:55:51 > 0:55:57fallen by 20 9000. Danny Shaw is with me. What's the total now?Net
0:55:57 > 0:55:59migration, the difference between numbers coming to live here for
0:55:59 > 0:56:05Europe or more or leaving is still 244,000, well above the government
0:56:05 > 0:56:09target of less than 100,000, still a long way from meeting that target.
0:56:09 > 0:56:15Net migration has fallen by 29,000, though, so it is dropping a bit.
0:56:15 > 0:56:18When you look more closely at the figures, you are seeing two distinct
0:56:18 > 0:56:23things going on. What you are seeing is a slowdown of people coming to
0:56:23 > 0:56:28live in the UK from other EU countries, although the net figure
0:56:28 > 0:56:37is still high, at 90,000, but it is the lowest for six years. Net
0:56:37 > 0:56:42migration, still more people coming from the EU then leaving from the EU
0:56:42 > 0:56:47but lower than it has been for many years. What is really interesting is
0:56:47 > 0:56:54that the number leaving the EU from the EU countries -- leaving the UK
0:56:54 > 0:57:03from the EU is now at its highest. That suggests there is a real
0:57:03 > 0:57:08Brexodus here following the vote in the referendum. Yet what we are
0:57:08 > 0:57:10seeing conversely, this is interesting and it might worry the
0:57:10 > 0:57:14government because they are trying to bring down net migration, we are
0:57:14 > 0:57:17seeing the number of people from outside the EU coming to Britain
0:57:17 > 0:57:22going up.And the government can control that in a way that they
0:57:22 > 0:57:29can't with the EU citizens because we are still a member of the EU.
0:57:29 > 0:57:33Outside EU people are not subject to freedom of movement, restrictions
0:57:33 > 0:57:37are placed but it does suggest that companies that might be struggling
0:57:37 > 0:57:41to recruit people from the EU are turning their attention to those
0:57:41 > 0:57:48nations outside the EU. So those figures of people coming here from
0:57:48 > 0:57:52outside EU are now at their highest level for around five or six years.
0:57:52 > 0:58:03Thank you, Danny.
0:58:03 > 0:58:11What a night it was at the Brit awards. Here and highlights.
0:58:11 > 0:58:14Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the Brit awards 2018.
0:58:14 > 0:58:16# Yo Theresa May where's the money for Grenfell?
0:58:16 > 0:58:21# What, you thought we just forgot about Grenfell?
0:58:21 > 0:58:31# You're criminals and you've got the cheek to call us Savages
0:58:32 > 0:58:35# You should have some chill time, you should pay some damages
0:58:35 > 0:58:39# You should burn your house down and see if you can manage this.
0:58:39 > 0:58:40Stormzy!
0:58:40 > 0:58:42Thank God because that's the reason why I'm here.
0:58:42 > 0:58:43Stormzy!
0:58:43 > 0:58:46We made something that I feel is undeniable.
0:58:46 > 0:58:49I can stand by it today, Gang Signs and Prayers, album of the
0:58:49 > 0:58:50year.
0:58:50 > 0:58:52I love you guys, thank you so much.
0:58:52 > 0:58:53Dua Lipa!
0:58:53 > 0:58:55Here's to more women on these stages, more women winning
0:58:55 > 0:58:57awards and more women taking over the world!
0:58:57 > 0:58:58Dua Lipa!
0:58:58 > 0:59:00I wanted them to experience it first hand.
0:59:00 > 0:59:02I love you.
0:59:02 > 0:59:07In a tribute to the people we so sadly lost that day but will
0:59:07 > 0:59:10always live on forever in our hearts, in our minds and in our
0:59:10 > 0:59:20memories, please welcome onstage Liam Gallagher.
0:59:21 > 0:59:22# We'll see things they'll never see,
0:59:22 > 0:59:28# You and I are going to live forever #.
0:59:28 > 0:59:31It is so amazing to see so many women tonight wearing the rose.
0:59:31 > 0:59:35We're very proud be women.
0:59:35 > 0:59:38Considering our size, we do incredible things in music, you know
0:59:38 > 0:59:40what I mean.
0:59:40 > 0:59:42We've got a real spirit and a real soul.
0:59:42 > 0:59:44And don't let politics get in the way of all of
0:59:44 > 0:59:45that.
0:59:45 > 0:59:49Ed Sheeran.
0:59:49 > 0:59:52# I'm in love with the shape of you #
0:59:52 > 0:59:54The global success has come from all the record
0:59:54 > 0:59:55labels that I work with
0:59:55 > 1:00:05around the world.
1:00:05 > 1:00:07The person who kind of keeps that together is a
1:00:07 > 1:00:08girl called Gabby Cawthorne.
1:00:08 > 1:00:10This one's for Gabby, thank you so much.
1:00:10 > 1:00:10This one's for Gabby, thank you so much.
1:00:10 > 1:00:15Let's get the latest weather update.
1:00:15 > 1:00:19I am bored with this freezing weather. You're bored? Look at
1:00:19 > 1:00:23whether Caldwell comes from from Monday, a lot of freezing weather
1:00:23 > 1:00:27across a lot of Europe, and that air coming towards us. It's getting
1:00:27 > 1:00:32colder next week with the chance of seeing snow as well.These are the
1:00:32 > 1:00:36main headlines for the weather next week, it's important, this is why
1:00:36 > 1:00:40I'm telling you about it, called with the bitter wind making it feel
1:00:40 > 1:00:44colder, widespread frost overnight, sharp frost and that chance was no
1:00:44 > 1:00:51which we will firm up over the next few days. One worth watching. You
1:00:51 > 1:00:58might think it is chilly today, but it will get colder, most places will
1:00:58 > 1:01:01remain dry, showers of Northern Ireland and West Scotland with the
1:01:01 > 1:01:05wind picking up. This afternoon temperatures which between four and
1:01:05 > 1:01:09seven Celsius, the breeze picking up towards the south of the UK to
1:01:09 > 1:01:13Northern Ireland and western Scotland so it will feel more chilly
1:01:13 > 1:01:17in the breeze. Tonight some areas of cloud, lengthy clear spells
1:01:17 > 1:01:22developing, that will allow timber just a fall, with the exception of
1:01:22 > 1:01:25Northern Ireland into western Scotland, Greece and cloud will keep
1:01:25 > 1:01:29the temperature up, compared with elsewhere, several degrees below
1:01:29 > 1:01:33freezing for some of us going into tomorrow morning, maybe the
1:01:33 > 1:01:38occasional fog patch, most of us will avoid that. Tomorrow, areas of
1:01:38 > 1:01:42cloud, sunny spells, most places will be dry, the breeze picking up a
1:01:42 > 1:01:46little further, that will make it feel cold even though temperatures
1:01:46 > 1:01:53tomorrow are similar to today. The bitter cold weather comes next week.
1:01:53 > 1:01:58Hello it's Thursday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.
1:01:58 > 1:02:01A major study of anti-depressants says that they are effective
1:02:01 > 1:02:03and that many more people across the UK could
1:02:03 > 1:02:06benefit from taking them.
1:02:06 > 1:02:13We'll hear the experiences of people who've taken the medication.
1:02:13 > 1:02:15We'll be asking what affect it it's had on their lives.
1:02:15 > 1:02:18President Trump says giving teachers guns might be the answer to help
1:02:18 > 1:02:21prevent future mass shootings in the US.
1:02:21 > 1:02:27This would only be for obviously people who are adept at handling a
1:02:27 > 1:02:31gun and it is called concealed carry more wary teacher would have a
1:02:31 > 1:02:39concealed gun on them -- where a teacher.
1:02:39 > 1:02:41We'll be speaking to two survivors of the Florida
1:02:41 > 1:02:43high school attack to get their views
1:02:43 > 1:02:45on the President's idea.
1:02:45 > 1:02:49Also this morning, people convicted of offences linked
1:02:49 > 1:02:52to domestic abuse are more likely to be jailed under new guidelines
1:02:52 > 1:02:53for courts in England and Wales.
1:02:53 > 1:02:56After two more fatal stabbings of young men in London,
1:02:56 > 1:03:04there's a call for more to be done to take knives off the streets.
1:03:04 > 1:03:08It's very hard when you see more kids out there losing their life the
1:03:08 > 1:03:11same way, and nothing has changed in the last year. It is getting a lot
1:03:11 > 1:03:17worse out there. It's hard to get over my son's death, but nothing is
1:03:17 > 1:03:27being done about it.
1:03:30 > 1:03:33Scientists say they have settled one of medicine's biggest debates as a
1:03:33 > 1:03:35huge study...
1:03:37 > 1:03:44It would help if I had a microphone, wouldn't it? Apologies for that.
1:03:44 > 1:03:48There we are. Hopefully you can hear me now. Scientists say they have
1:03:48 > 1:03:53settled one of medicine's biggest debates after huge study concluded
1:03:53 > 1:03:57that antidepressants do work. The research found common
1:03:57 > 1:04:01antidepressants were more effective at reducing symptoms of depression
1:04:01 > 1:04:05than dummy pills. Giving teachers guns could help prevent further
1:04:05 > 1:04:18school shootings in the US, that's the message from President from. He
1:04:18 > 1:04:22also called for more background checks on people's dying -- buying
1:04:22 > 1:04:25guns. The UN Security Council will vote on a draft resolution later
1:04:25 > 1:04:32demanding a month-long ceasefire in Syria. The report suggest more than
1:04:32 > 1:04:36300 people have been killed in the Eastern Ghouta area near Damascus
1:04:36 > 1:04:40since Sunday. The UN Secretary General described the situation in
1:04:40 > 1:04:43the rebel enclave as hell on earth.
1:04:43 > 1:04:47Theresa May will seek to overcome differences on Brexit
1:04:47 > 1:04:48among her senior ministers today.
1:04:48 > 1:04:51She'll be chairing a meeting at Chequers intended to hammer out
1:04:51 > 1:04:54the cabinet's position on future relations with the EU.
1:04:54 > 1:04:57Net migration, the difference between people coming to the UK
1:04:57 > 1:05:00for a year or more and the number of people emigrating from Britain,
1:05:00 > 1:05:07has fallen in the year to last September.
1:05:07 > 1:05:14New figures show net migration dropped by 29,000 down to 240 4000.
1:05:14 > 1:05:17It's the second set of data released by the Office
1:05:17 > 1:05:23for National Statistics since the 2016 EU referendum.
1:05:23 > 1:05:27Centrica, the owner of British Gas, said it would cut 4000 jobs over the
1:05:27 > 1:05:32next two years. This morning, the company, which employs around 33,000
1:05:32 > 1:05:36people, announced a big fall in profits and said that British Gas
1:05:36 > 1:05:43had lost nearly 10% of its UK domestic customers last year. People
1:05:43 > 1:05:46convicted of domestic abuse offences in both England and Wales will be
1:05:46 > 1:05:50more likely to go to prison under new sentencing guidelines. The first
1:05:50 > 1:05:55time, the guidance will say domestic offences should be treated more
1:05:55 > 1:05:58seriously than similar crimes which don't involve family members or
1:05:58 > 1:06:04partners. The new guidance will also extend domestic abuse to include
1:06:04 > 1:06:07threats on social media.
1:06:07 > 1:06:10A month of strikes affecting 64 UK universities and a million
1:06:10 > 1:06:13students begins today.
1:06:13 > 1:06:21Lecturers are walking out over changes to their pensions,
1:06:21 > 1:06:24which they say could leave them up to £10,000 a year
1:06:24 > 1:06:25worse off in retirement.
1:06:25 > 1:06:27Their employer, Universities UK, says the pension scheme has
1:06:27 > 1:06:29a 6 billion pound deficit which can't be ignored.
1:06:29 > 1:06:32Grime artist Stormzy picked up the award for best British male
1:06:32 > 1:06:35at the Brits last night, and had a strong message
1:06:35 > 1:06:36in his performance.
1:06:36 > 1:06:38# Yo ,Theresa May where's the money for Grenfell?
1:06:38 > 1:06:43# What, you thought we just forgot about Grenfell?
1:06:43 > 1:06:44Stormzy also won the award
1:06:44 > 1:06:46for best British album, while the singer, Dua Lipa,
1:06:46 > 1:06:51scooped Best British Female, as well as the breakthrough award
1:06:51 > 1:06:53That's a summary of the latest BBC News.
1:06:53 > 1:06:57More at 10.30.
1:06:57 > 1:07:01This e-mail from Peter is about knife crime and our conversation
1:07:01 > 1:07:08earlier. Very simple to treat the increase in knife crime, a three up
1:07:08 > 1:07:11to five year jail sentence for carrying a knife. It worked for
1:07:11 > 1:07:14handguns. There is no reason for anyone to have a knife unless you
1:07:14 > 1:07:18are a chef on the way to work. Jane says, based on how many knife crimes
1:07:18 > 1:07:24have occurred during this week, it is appalling and horrifying.
1:07:24 > 1:07:28Unfortunately -- unfortunately things are not improving. Ray says
1:07:28 > 1:07:31we let children play video games where the object is to kill the
1:07:31 > 1:07:34enemy by whatever means possible and then they want to think this is the
1:07:34 > 1:07:39way to survive the streets. Do keep those coming in, especially if you
1:07:39 > 1:07:44have personal relative experience. You will be charged standard network
1:07:44 > 1:07:46rate.
1:07:46 > 1:07:48Here's some sport now with Hugh.
1:07:48 > 1:07:51The Team GB men could not match the women by reaching the semifinals of
1:07:51 > 1:07:55the curling competition at the Winter Olympics in South Korea. They
1:07:55 > 1:07:59had one last chance to survive, play-off against Switzerland but
1:07:59 > 1:08:03they were beaten 9-5 despite being ahead with just two ends to play.
1:08:03 > 1:08:07The Swiss did something you don't see too often, scoring a 5-point
1:08:07 > 1:08:12stone in the end to advance. Disappointment for Team GB and a
1:08:12 > 1:08:17medal hope gone after taking a silver in the event four years ago.
1:08:17 > 1:08:22We came in the first Olympics and gave it our best shot and we made
1:08:22 > 1:08:26the play-offs but in the end we had a good game today but it was not to
1:08:26 > 1:08:31be, sadly. A couple of things did not go our way, a couple of half
1:08:31 > 1:08:35shots, and that's all it takes against a team as good as them so
1:08:35 > 1:08:38there is plenty to look forward to going forward and we just need to
1:08:38 > 1:08:42take some time and reflect on this experience and what we can take from
1:08:42 > 1:08:48it.There was some positive news for Dave Riding who finished ninth in
1:08:48 > 1:08:52the men's slalom and vowed to come back and challenge for a medal in
1:08:52 > 1:08:55Beijing in four years' time. He believes he can return to do the
1:08:55 > 1:09:00same as today's gold medallist and perform to a gold medal standard at
1:09:00 > 1:09:05the age of 35. There was a tense finish to the women's ice hockey
1:09:05 > 1:09:09final as the US won a dramatic penalty shoot out in the women's
1:09:09 > 1:09:13final, taking gold to stop Canada from taking their fifth straight
1:09:13 > 1:09:21title. The US keeper was the hero, sparking wild American celebrations.
1:09:21 > 1:09:26Very much the opposite today for one Russian colour. He won a mixed
1:09:26 > 1:09:30doubles bronze medal in the curling alongside his wife but was stripped
1:09:30 > 1:09:40of his medal after admitted to doping. That will be a great story
1:09:40 > 1:09:51for the IOC for the Russian sporting officials -- that won't be. Away
1:09:51 > 1:09:53from South Korea, Eddie Jones has made one change to his starting 15
1:09:53 > 1:09:58for the six Nations meeting with Scotland at Murrayfield. Nathan
1:09:58 > 1:10:03Hughes will make his first appearance in the competition
1:10:03 > 1:10:08replacing Sam Simmons in the back row. Joe Mahler comes in on the
1:10:08 > 1:10:14bench having missed the opening two matches through suspension. That's
1:10:14 > 1:10:21all the sport for now. Antidepressants are affective and
1:10:21 > 1:10:26many more people in the UK could benefit from taking them according
1:10:26 > 1:10:34to a major study. The analysis of 21 common antidepressants published in
1:10:34 > 1:10:36the Lancet magazine showed they were better at reducing symptoms than
1:10:36 > 1:10:45dummy pills. We can talk to the author of today's report, and also
1:10:45 > 1:10:52with as is Carmina from the Society of psychiatrist, and Steve Cullen is
1:10:52 > 1:10:57with us, who used to take antidepressants.
1:10:57 > 1:11:02I will talk to first, if I may, you are behind this study. Tell us what
1:11:02 > 1:11:10you have discovered.The long-standing question was about
1:11:10 > 1:11:17whether antidepressants work for people with major depression and it
1:11:17 > 1:11:21took six years to collect all available evidence but now we can
1:11:21 > 1:11:27say that antidepressants are effective for moderate to severe
1:11:27 > 1:11:34depression in adults. This is good news for parents, carers and
1:11:34 > 1:11:38clinicians.How did you reach this conclusion?We analysed all
1:11:38 > 1:11:42available data and when I say all available data, it's not just the
1:11:42 > 1:11:48published reports and studies, which tends to be overinflated in terms of
1:11:48 > 1:11:54the evidence in favour of drugs, but we collected 52% of the data in the
1:11:54 > 1:11:59analysis from unpublished data, so this gives us the idea of how robust
1:11:59 > 1:12:06is the evidence we found and we compared all of the treatments with
1:12:06 > 1:12:13quite an innovative methodology, so we are able to compare all of the
1:12:13 > 1:12:18treatments in the network one against the other.You found some
1:12:18 > 1:12:22antidepressants were more effective than others.Among the
1:12:22 > 1:12:26antidepressants, they are not created equally, so some are more
1:12:26 > 1:12:29effective and others are more acceptable to patients.But
1:12:29 > 1:12:34effectively you are saying that because of this, more people could
1:12:34 > 1:12:39benefit from antidepressants. Definitely. We know that a
1:12:39 > 1:12:42prescription of antidepressants is a tricky issue because they should
1:12:42 > 1:12:47probably not be described to people with mild depression, so there is a
1:12:47 > 1:12:52risk of overs per -- prescribing which still exists but it's more
1:12:52 > 1:12:59important to treat people who can benefit from this intervention, so
1:12:59 > 1:13:03antidepressants RA tool that can be used in clinical practice for other
1:13:03 > 1:13:12treatments that are proven effective.In England alone, in
1:13:12 > 1:13:192016, there were 64 point 7 million prescriptions for antidepressants.
1:13:19 > 1:13:22The conclusion of this study is that there should be more because people
1:13:22 > 1:13:26can benefit.We know that most people with depression are not
1:13:26 > 1:13:32currently seeking help, maybe only one in five or one in six who suffer
1:13:32 > 1:13:36from clinically significant depression, people that because of
1:13:36 > 1:13:41depression their life is impaired but they don't seek help to get the
1:13:41 > 1:13:48antidepressants. If we can help them more we should prescribe more
1:13:48 > 1:13:50antidepressants but we have to be careful and make sure we only
1:13:50 > 1:13:56prescribe them to people who really need them.As far as you are
1:13:56 > 1:14:01concerned is this study good news? Does it settle the debate about
1:14:01 > 1:14:06whether antidepressants really are effective or not?It does.You
1:14:06 > 1:14:11probably thought that anyway, but everybody else?Absolutely. Over the
1:14:11 > 1:14:15last ten years there has been some controversy in the field and most
1:14:15 > 1:14:18psychiatrists and mental health practitioners would trust that
1:14:18 > 1:14:26antidepressants are beneficial, but there is some controversy within the
1:14:26 > 1:14:29field, and I think this now puts the controversy to bed, which is
1:14:29 > 1:14:36important. You can be a patient who wants to be on antidepressants in
1:14:36 > 1:14:40the future and these are safe and effective medications and we can
1:14:40 > 1:14:44also understand more and move on to the more important questions. Why
1:14:44 > 1:14:47some antidepressants were better than others, and what can we do for
1:14:47 > 1:14:52people who do not benefit from them? We have 21 drugs mentioned in the
1:14:52 > 1:14:56study yet some people don't benefit from any of them, so how can we help
1:14:56 > 1:15:04those people?We will talk to Steve and David, both of whom have used
1:15:04 > 1:15:11antique depressants. Steve, how did they affect you? -- antidepressants.
1:15:11 > 1:15:14The important thing with antidepressants is getting the right
1:15:14 > 1:15:19medication for each individual. What works for one person won't
1:15:19 > 1:15:24necessarily work for the next person. And also with taking
1:15:24 > 1:15:29antidepressants, you need a network around you, whether it's a support
1:15:29 > 1:15:35group, family members, and it's OK taking medication but if you've not
1:15:35 > 1:15:40got that support network around you it won't work effectively. And vice
1:15:40 > 1:15:46versa. If you've got the social network around you but no
1:15:46 > 1:15:52medication, that's not going to work. So you need to balance both.
1:15:52 > 1:15:58That's to get the maximum effect. That is what has happened to me, and
1:15:58 > 1:16:06when I first started taking the antidepressants many years ago there
1:16:06 > 1:16:09wasn't anything that works for me and it took awhile to get the right
1:16:09 > 1:16:16medication, by which time I had accessed a support group in the
1:16:16 > 1:16:22community, users group based in Eccles which was set up by a group
1:16:22 > 1:16:31of volunteers many years ago to help people with mental health issues,
1:16:31 > 1:16:33depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and you can all talk about
1:16:33 > 1:16:37your experiences.
1:16:37 > 1:16:49Let me bring in Southee from Mind -- Sophie. It's not just about people
1:16:49 > 1:16:55managing acute depression, it's not just about antidepressants.
1:16:56 > 1:17:00managing acute depression, it's not just about antidepressants.No, it's
1:17:00 > 1:17:05not. I don't think that the advice would change, the first line of
1:17:05 > 1:17:11treatment would be exercise, talking, as the August suggests, I
1:17:11 > 1:17:16think all of those sorts of things and even for severe depression
1:17:16 > 1:17:21alongside antidepressants and is good too but those things in place.
1:17:21 > 1:17:23For many people, taking antidepressants really helps to lift
1:17:23 > 1:17:28them up enough so that they can begin to engage in some of those
1:17:28 > 1:17:32other things as well and then the combination of those things can be
1:17:32 > 1:17:37what really helps someone to recover.David, hello, thank you for
1:17:37 > 1:17:44talking to us. Tell us about your experience.I used the bills to
1:17:44 > 1:17:52treat people. I haven't taken them used them to treat a mood disorder.
1:17:52 > 1:17:57My concern with the paper is that it is based on ghost written articles
1:17:57 > 1:18:01to which, and we don't have access to the data behind these articles so
1:18:01 > 1:18:06the findings to a degree, there's an element of garbage in and garbage
1:18:06 > 1:18:11out. We know that a great number of the trials in this area have
1:18:11 > 1:18:16overhyped the benefits we might get from these pills and hidden the hard
1:18:16 > 1:18:22things. From the point of view of using these pills and treatments
1:18:22 > 1:18:27like ECT to treat people who are severely depressed, the thing for me
1:18:27 > 1:18:30is getting a clear picture of what the harms can be. Because a great
1:18:30 > 1:18:37number of these pills, they are not placebos, it's not like they do
1:18:37 > 1:18:42nothing. They work in the way that alcohol works, they have a kind of
1:18:42 > 1:18:46tranquillising effect. The question really is, to I want people on these
1:18:46 > 1:18:49drugs long-term and if I am going to treat them they need to know what
1:18:49 > 1:18:55the risks are. They shouldn't have the benefits of and the risks
1:18:55 > 1:19:00concealed. Nor the patients that I treat nor the doctors using the
1:19:00 > 1:19:06bills should be put in that position.Let me get some reaction
1:19:06 > 1:19:13to what you are saying.Definitely, there needs to be a balance between
1:19:13 > 1:19:18benefits and side effects and risks. The aim of this project was pretty
1:19:18 > 1:19:23narrow because we wanted to answer a specific question and we are using
1:19:23 > 1:19:30the same dataset to answer the same question so in parallel we are also
1:19:30 > 1:19:33doing an analysis about long-term treatment of depression, so to give
1:19:33 > 1:19:38the full picture to patients and clinicians. And I agree with Steve
1:19:38 > 1:19:44that what we need to do now is individualised treatment and having
1:19:44 > 1:19:48access to individual data from the studies would be the way to go. At
1:19:48 > 1:19:53the moment we have aggregates data, these averages, and we are very
1:19:53 > 1:19:59aware of this programme and this is why it took such a long time to have
1:19:59 > 1:20:05access to the unpublished data. And as reported in the paper, we gave
1:20:05 > 1:20:09priority to the unpublished report exactly because of what the
1:20:09 > 1:20:13professor is saying, we know that sometimes, or often in many cases,
1:20:13 > 1:20:19there might be the published report which is misleading.OK. Neville has
1:20:19 > 1:20:28e-mailed to say, I take pills, and before taking them I was scared to
1:20:28 > 1:20:33go out the door, I would be shaking while getting on the bus. The pills
1:20:33 > 1:20:37have helped me a lot, I still have panic attacks if bad things happen
1:20:37 > 1:20:41but I can go out and if everything goes as planned and I don't have a
1:20:41 > 1:20:48problem. And Lewis says, my mother was addicted to antidepressants for
1:20:48 > 1:20:54decades and ended up effectually tortured by them. A brief word about
1:20:54 > 1:20:57addiction?Addiction is a tricky word because it has a very specific
1:20:57 > 1:21:03meaning. Many people find it very, very difficult to come off
1:21:03 > 1:21:07antidepressants. That is one side-effect. Professor Healy has
1:21:07 > 1:21:12done a lot of work on that as well. Different antidepressants can be
1:21:12 > 1:21:15harder to come off than others, some find them harder to come off than
1:21:15 > 1:21:20other people. People can have this impact where, trying to come off
1:21:20 > 1:21:26them you have to take that process just like dealing with an addiction.
1:21:26 > 1:21:31So there are side effects and it is worth talking to all those
1:21:31 > 1:21:35implications with your doctor when you decide to take antidepressants.
1:21:35 > 1:21:42Really quickly.It can become a chronic disorder so some of these
1:21:42 > 1:21:48people cannot stop because they would fall ill again.
1:21:48 > 1:21:55Antidepressants are not addictive but the problem is the withdrawal
1:21:55 > 1:21:59symptoms if they stopped abruptly. Thank you, thank you all of you.
1:21:59 > 1:22:04President Trump says teachers carrying guns could stop mass
1:22:04 > 1:22:05shootings in US schools.
1:22:05 > 1:22:08A week on from the massacre of 17 young students
1:22:08 > 1:22:10at a high school in Florida, the President was holding
1:22:10 > 1:22:12an emotional meeting with students, teacherS and parents.
1:22:12 > 1:22:15Meanwhle, the pressure is mounting - particularly from young people -
1:22:15 > 1:22:17for America to address its gun violence problem.
1:22:17 > 1:22:19During the meeting, the President held this note
1:22:19 > 1:22:24in his hand which had five points written down, with the fifth
1:22:24 > 1:22:26saying "I hear you".
1:22:26 > 1:22:36But is his "listening session" enough?
1:22:37 > 1:22:40Many of the students who survived last week's attack at Parkland say
1:22:40 > 1:22:42they would love to tell the president what they think -
1:22:42 > 1:22:44but that they have not been given the opportunity.
1:22:44 > 1:22:46Here's what the President has said overnight.
1:22:46 > 1:22:49It works when you have people very adept at using firearms, of which
1:22:49 > 1:22:54you have many. And it would be teachers and coaches, if the coach
1:22:54 > 1:22:59had a firearm in his locker when he ran at this guy, the coach was very
1:22:59 > 1:23:05brave, saved a lot of lives, I suspect. But if he had had a firearm
1:23:05 > 1:23:08he wouldn't have run, he would have shot him and this would've been the
1:23:08 > 1:23:13end of it. This would only be, obviously, for people very adept at
1:23:13 > 1:23:17handling a gun. And it would be, it is called concealed carry, where
1:23:17 > 1:23:24teacher would have a concealed gun on them. They would go for special
1:23:24 > 1:23:27training and they would be there and you would no longer have a gun free
1:23:27 > 1:23:34zone. Gun free zone to a maniac because they are all cowards, a gun
1:23:34 > 1:23:41free zone is, let's go in and let's attack.It does not even feel like a
1:23:41 > 1:23:48week. Time has stood still, to feel like this, ever, I can't, I can't
1:23:48 > 1:23:55feel comfortable in my country, knowing that people have, will have,
1:23:55 > 1:24:04ever going to feel like this. I want to feel safe at school, senior year
1:24:04 > 1:24:09and junior year of big ears, when I turned my academics around, started
1:24:09 > 1:24:15connecting with teachers and started actually enjoying school. And now I
1:24:15 > 1:24:21don't know how I'm ever going to set foot in that place again.I am very
1:24:21 > 1:24:25angry that this happened because it keeps happening. Mine in 11 happened
1:24:25 > 1:24:31once and they fixed everything. How many schools, how many children have
1:24:31 > 1:24:37to get shot? It stops here with this administration and me. I'm not going
1:24:37 > 1:24:43to sleep until it is fixed. And Mr President, we are going to fix it.
1:24:43 > 1:24:56I'm going to fix it. I'm not going to rest.
1:25:02 > 1:25:06And I am kissed. Because my daughter, she's not here, I'm not
1:25:06 > 1:25:10going to see her again.We are going to do with strong checks on
1:25:10 > 1:25:14everyone, most of the governors are coming in from another state, we are
1:25:14 > 1:25:19going to have serious talks about what is going on with school safety.
1:25:19 > 1:25:23Very important. We are going to cover any deliberate every aspect of
1:25:23 > 1:25:27it, there are many ideas I have, many ideas other people have, we are
1:25:27 > 1:25:30going to big out the strongest ideas, the most important ideas that
1:25:30 > 1:25:39work, we're going to get them done.
1:25:39 > 1:25:49Lets
1:25:58 > 1:26:07talk to Diego Pfeiller. Involved with the Never Again campaign said
1:26:07 > 1:26:11by students in the wake of the parkland massacre and schoolmate
1:26:11 > 1:26:16Ashley, who as we heard on Monday hid from the gunman. Diego Godin
1:26:16 > 1:26:20you've become a very prominent campaigner, why we are not invited
1:26:20 > 1:26:24to meet the president?We were sceptical of the session because we
1:26:24 > 1:26:32want our views to be that as well. We invited the president to our own
1:26:32 > 1:26:38event, it was four hours later and he was absolutely invited and we
1:26:38 > 1:26:42wanted to talk to him, we understand that you can change the world for
1:26:42 > 1:26:47the better, we want to speak to him. As for our personal invitation, we
1:26:47 > 1:26:51did not get it.Ashley, you are not invited either, what do you think of
1:26:51 > 1:27:00the suggestion that teachers armed with guns could stop future attacks?
1:27:00 > 1:27:04I personally do not agree with that viewpoint. An analogy was said by
1:27:04 > 1:27:09one of my classmates that if you, if there is a child who is hurting
1:27:09 > 1:27:12other children in the playground with a rock are we supposed to give
1:27:12 > 1:27:16all of the other children on the playground a rock to protect
1:27:16 > 1:27:22themselves? No. Because it will end up with more children getting hurt
1:27:22 > 1:27:31with rocks. I feel this is apt when we talk about arming teachers with
1:27:31 > 1:27:35guns because there are just too many loopholes for there to be one
1:27:35 > 1:27:40specific answer when it comes to something like this.Andy Parker,
1:27:40 > 1:27:45President Trump said, if you had a teacher adept at handling firearms
1:27:45 > 1:27:52they could well end the attack very quickly. What do you think.Well,
1:27:52 > 1:27:56foreperson bet on a daily basis says stupid things, that ranks right up
1:27:56 > 1:28:05there. That just nuts. -- for a person who, on a daily basis, says
1:28:05 > 1:28:11stupid things. It makes no sense. As one of the teachers said last night,
1:28:11 > 1:28:15I'm supposed to teach and then supposed to be law enforcement? How
1:28:15 > 1:28:20does that work? And this was somebody who voted for Trump.We can
1:28:20 > 1:28:24see a photograph of Alison behind you, she was killed when she was
1:28:24 > 1:28:28doing her job as a reporter. What needs to happen to prevent future
1:28:28 > 1:28:37tragedies?A number of things, not just one thing that needs to happen,
1:28:37 > 1:28:43simple things that we can affect that can save lives. Nothing is 100%
1:28:43 > 1:28:50sure. And I was listening earlier to your programme, how I wish we were
1:28:50 > 1:28:56having a debate about knives in this country as opposed to guns. You do
1:28:56 > 1:28:59universal background checks you ban assault weapons, you put a limit on
1:28:59 > 1:29:08these magazines. Three simple things that you can do to save lives. And
1:29:08 > 1:29:19you can do that, and still keep the second amendment intact.Diego, Mr
1:29:19 > 1:29:25Trump is doing some things, he has ordered his administration to take
1:29:25 > 1:29:29steps to ban the bumper stocks, those accessories that mean that
1:29:29 > 1:29:33guns can fire hundreds of friends in minutes, as used by the gunman in
1:29:33 > 1:29:37Las Vegas, said he is doing something.I'm happy that he's doing
1:29:37 > 1:29:42something, I've said it before and will say it again, any steps in the
1:29:42 > 1:29:46right direction are good but they are only first steps. We want a
1:29:46 > 1:29:51little more to come from our national government. In Tallahassee
1:29:51 > 1:29:55and talked with many of the senators and Representatives and they were
1:29:55 > 1:30:00very open to some of our great ideas. That includes gun safety as
1:30:00 > 1:30:06well as mental health and school safety. On this specific topic, we
1:30:06 > 1:30:17talked about the marshal programme where they will teach teachers to
1:30:17 > 1:30:21shoot and none of the students present like that idea because
1:30:21 > 1:30:25fighting guns with more guns is just going to get more bullets in the
1:30:25 > 1:30:34air, as Ashley said.Lawmakers in Florida said they would consider
1:30:34 > 1:30:38raising the minimum age to buy assault rifles like the one that the
1:30:38 > 1:30:47police say was used in the shooting last week, they rejected a proposal
1:30:47 > 1:30:57to even debate banning such weapons. Diego, we are there?Yes, we talked
1:30:57 > 1:31:08about that. It was a political stunt.
1:31:09 > 1:31:14On that specific...Just a minute, Diego, they rejected this in front
1:31:14 > 1:31:20of you, in front of other survivors...Supposedly yes, MST
1:31:20 > 1:31:26students were there, we were on the bus up there, that is when we heard
1:31:26 > 1:31:31the news.How do you react to the fact that they won't even debate
1:31:31 > 1:31:33banning arms?Specifically on that bill they were talking about assault
1:31:33 > 1:31:41rifles. Be a 15, the one everyone is most adamant about taking off the
1:31:41 > 1:31:52market, that wasn't even included in the bill. -- the AR 15. If you ban
1:31:52 > 1:31:56is specific gun, they will just come up with a slightly bigger one or a
1:31:56 > 1:32:01slightly smaller one and sell that. It doesn't solve the problem. I can
1:32:01 > 1:32:04understand why lawmakers rejected that idea. However I am very
1:32:04 > 1:32:08disappointed that the people who brought that up and decided to make
1:32:08 > 1:32:15that a political stunt, to try to Dulin our voices by issuing such
1:32:15 > 1:32:23legislator at the time when they did.
1:32:23 > 1:32:28Do you think this genuinely is a tipping point? After all, we have
1:32:28 > 1:32:31heard anger and outrage after many previous mass shootings at schools
1:32:31 > 1:32:41in the US.I think it is a tipping point and I think that tipping point
1:32:41 > 1:32:45was the election in Virginia this past November. The gun issue was the
1:32:45 > 1:32:51number to issue for voters in Virginia and they routed the
1:32:51 > 1:32:57Republicans in the house of delegates. So I think that was sort
1:32:57 > 1:33:04of the first wave that is coming this fall and there's not going to
1:33:04 > 1:33:06be any movement from Republican lawmakers anywhere across the
1:33:06 > 1:33:13country. Maybe small steps. I was sitting in a committee and I
1:33:13 > 1:33:20testified before a committee in Virginia, and I watched this young
1:33:20 > 1:33:29woman who survived Las Vegas tearfully asking that the Virginia
1:33:29 > 1:33:32Senate represent bumper stocks, but they said sorry they wouldn't do
1:33:32 > 1:33:43that gone stocks. Until we kick these guys to the curb, nothing will
1:33:43 > 1:33:50happen until it gets done in the fall.Andy Barker, whose daughter
1:33:50 > 1:33:53Alison Parker, whose daughter was shot dead during a live interview --
1:33:53 > 1:34:04Andy Parker. And we also talked to Ashley from the school in Parkland,
1:34:04 > 1:34:07she was on the programme earlier this week and she was back again
1:34:07 > 1:34:16today. Thank you. We'll be speaking to one Briton's most accessible
1:34:16 > 1:34:22YouTube stars about how he got 4 million viewers. And also people
1:34:22 > 1:34:25convicted of offences linked to domestic abuse are more likely to be
1:34:25 > 1:34:29jailed under new guidelines for judges. We will be speaking to a
1:34:29 > 1:34:30survivor of domestic abuse.
1:34:38 > 1:34:41Time for the latest news - here's Rachel Schofield
1:34:41 > 1:34:44Scientists say they have settled one of medicine's biggest debates
1:34:44 > 1:34:46after a huge study has concluded that anti-depressants do work.
1:34:46 > 1:34:48The research found common anti-depressants were all more
1:34:48 > 1:34:56effective at reducing symptoms of depression than dummy pills.
1:34:56 > 1:35:01Theresa May will seek to overcome differences on Brexit
1:35:01 > 1:35:02among her senior ministers today.
1:35:02 > 1:35:05She'll be chairing a meeting at Chequers intended to hammer out
1:35:05 > 1:35:08the cabinet's position on future relations with the EU.
1:35:08 > 1:35:11Net migration - the difference between people coming to the UK
1:35:11 > 1:35:14for a year or more and the number of people emigrating from Britain -
1:35:14 > 1:35:16has fallen in the year to last September.
1:35:16 > 1:35:22New figures show net migration dropped by 29,000
1:35:22 > 1:35:23to 244,000.
1:35:23 > 1:35:26It's the second set of data released by the Office
1:35:26 > 1:35:36for National Statistics since the 2016 EU referendum.
1:35:36 > 1:35:40Now the sport with Hugh.
1:35:40 > 1:35:44Team GB's men could not replicate the women and make the semifinals of
1:35:44 > 1:35:48the curling at the Winter Olympics in South Korea, losing 9-5 in their
1:35:48 > 1:35:53play-off, failing to reach the final meaning Team GB lose one of their
1:35:53 > 1:35:57medal hopes after they took silver four years ago. Dave Riding has
1:35:57 > 1:36:01vowed to challenge her a medal in four years' time after he finished
1:36:01 > 1:36:06ninth in the men's slalom earlier. Meanwhile the Russian curler has
1:36:06 > 1:36:09been stripped of his bronze medal from the mixed curling after being
1:36:09 > 1:36:13found guilty of doping. Finally, Nathan Hughes will start at number
1:36:13 > 1:36:19eight for England in the six Nations clash with Scotland. He replaces the
1:36:19 > 1:36:23injured Sam Simmons. Joe Marling is back on the bench after suspension.
1:36:23 > 1:36:27More sport after 11.
1:36:27 > 1:36:29Theresa May is meeting her senior ministers at Chequers later today
1:36:29 > 1:36:34to thrash out the cabinet's position on future relations with the EU.
1:36:34 > 1:36:36Over now to our political guru, Norman Smith.
1:36:36 > 1:36:42I can imagine this could be a very long meeting.
1:36:42 > 1:36:47Is today the day? It is meant to be the day. And you have probably heard
1:36:47 > 1:36:53of the three Bears, and the three Musketeers, and you might have heard
1:36:53 > 1:37:00of the three tenors. Today I bring you the three Baskett 's, this is
1:37:00 > 1:37:02the master plan for getting squabbling cabinet ministers to
1:37:02 > 1:37:11agree and also to get EU leaders to agree to us to still have access to
1:37:11 > 1:37:16the single market without border controls and checks and tariffs and
1:37:16 > 1:37:22all that sort of thing. The thinking is that in each of the Baskett 's
1:37:22 > 1:37:26par-3 bundles of goodies that we hope the EU will take a look at and
1:37:26 > 1:37:33say, OK, you can trade with us on the same terms as you do -- in each
1:37:33 > 1:37:39of the baskets there are bundles. Let's look at the first basket. This
1:37:39 > 1:37:44contains EU rules. These are rules and regulations which we are kind of
1:37:44 > 1:37:50happy with, that we are co--- OK with the EU rules and we will go
1:37:50 > 1:37:57along with them, so that's not very controversial. Taking a look in the
1:37:57 > 1:38:03second basket, this is EU light rules. These are the sort of
1:38:03 > 1:38:12standards and protections that where we have the same sort of objections
1:38:12 > 1:38:20but we would like to implement that with our own rules. That sort of
1:38:20 > 1:38:25halfway house that the EU might be OK with is that, but in the third
1:38:25 > 1:38:36basket our UK rules on their own.
1:38:37 > 1:38:41With our own objectives, our own aims, we are going to diverged and
1:38:41 > 1:38:45do things in the single market that way. That is much more problematic
1:38:45 > 1:38:50for EU leaders. Already there are signs emerging from Brussels that
1:38:50 > 1:38:58they will say no to that particular basket. That is the difficulty here.
1:38:58 > 1:39:05Theresa May has to get agreement amongst the squabbling Cabinet
1:39:05 > 1:39:08members and the rumours are the meeting could go on till ten o'clock
1:39:08 > 1:39:11tonight, but she also has to get the EU to agree with whatever she
1:39:11 > 1:39:15manages to get her ministers to agree to. So there is still an
1:39:15 > 1:39:21awfully long way to go, I'm afraid. Thank you, Norman. And we will
1:39:21 > 1:39:26report back when the meeting is over. We know you can get paid
1:39:26 > 1:39:29serious amounts of money if you played football for a living but
1:39:29 > 1:39:33what about getting money to play in your back garden and load it to the
1:39:33 > 1:39:41Internet. Chris is one of the most successful YouTube stars in the UK,
1:39:41 > 1:39:45and he uploads videos of himself having a kickabout and has
1:39:45 > 1:39:49interviewed top footballers, including Ronaldo. He has now
1:39:49 > 1:39:54written a book called frills, skills and more pills.How you, Chris? I'm
1:39:54 > 1:40:02good. How EU?People want to know how you got into going onto YouTube
1:40:02 > 1:40:07and how do you make your money?It started as a hobby. Like a lot of
1:40:07 > 1:40:12people it just started you do at school and it was when I probably
1:40:12 > 1:40:15should have been going to parties and things like that but I started
1:40:15 > 1:40:24off filming my goals as I used to play a lot on Fifa, and the
1:40:24 > 1:40:28community grew from there with people commentating over it and it
1:40:28 > 1:40:31just sort of grew from there and then I went into football, I enjoyed
1:40:31 > 1:40:37a lot which more and I tend to do more of that these days and pretty
1:40:37 > 1:40:44much, if you get the views on the videos then the ads on YouTube
1:40:44 > 1:40:48videos, at the start, during, the end, you get a tiny fraction of 8p
1:40:48 > 1:40:55for every view -- of a penny for every view. And if there are enough,
1:40:55 > 1:41:02you can make it into a real job.So it is each of you?I'd sat down and
1:41:02 > 1:41:11worked it out, and I'm -- I was doing this on a slow Tuesday. It was
1:41:11 > 1:41:16a fraction of a penny. If you get enough, like I said, you can make it
1:41:16 > 1:41:20a job.We have been watching some videos involving your sister and I
1:41:20 > 1:41:25don't know if it's the guy with ginger hair, is he a relative?Is my
1:41:25 > 1:41:32cousin.Your cousin. Perfect. You turn down a place at university to
1:41:32 > 1:41:37study to be a vet and at that stage a think you only had a subscribers.
1:41:37 > 1:41:44So not enough to make a career -- 139 subscribers. Was that a big
1:41:44 > 1:41:54gamble?I think I had a at the time, so it wasn't too much of a gamble. I
1:41:54 > 1:42:01was planning to be a vet -- I had a at the time.
1:42:02 > 1:42:18It was a big gamble. Luckily my parents were behind enough will
1:42:19 > 1:42:24stop instead of telling me to get off the computer console it was to
1:42:24 > 1:42:37come back inside and get on it. I think I got about 700,000, not that
1:42:37 > 1:42:47I keep track of them. It went very well for me.Earlier this month,
1:42:47 > 1:42:50YouTube Stennett would start labelling videos made by
1:42:50 > 1:42:54state-sponsored broadcast to crack down on propaganda -- said it would
1:42:54 > 1:42:59start. Obviously that's not an area for you, but it is an area for
1:42:59 > 1:43:03beyond news because so much on YouTube is essentially advertising
1:43:03 > 1:43:07conceal that something else. How aware of you are that when you put
1:43:07 > 1:43:16out your videos?Whereof what, sorry?Whereof effectively
1:43:16 > 1:43:18advertising, merchandise, product placement, but making it look like
1:43:18 > 1:43:26something else?Yes, so you have to make it clear that you have an ad
1:43:26 > 1:43:30placement in your videos. It was something I was made aware of
1:43:30 > 1:43:39because you get brand deals and they will say here is an amount of money.
1:43:39 > 1:43:44Here is an app we would like to promote, and generally you will look
1:43:44 > 1:43:52at it and say yes or no and you see that as a good one. Some people
1:43:52 > 1:43:57might not, but personally I do. It's something that legally you have to
1:43:57 > 1:44:02make it clear these days, like Instagram, that has a caption where
1:44:02 > 1:44:06you have to say if it is a paid partnership, if you are wearing a
1:44:06 > 1:44:13watch or something. It's definitely something that is really important
1:44:13 > 1:44:18and it is illegal thing to do that now. A couple of people have been
1:44:18 > 1:44:23caught up having maybe a Coke can in the background and you did not
1:44:23 > 1:44:27mention it but it was that the whole video and they were paying you a
1:44:27 > 1:44:31certain amount of money, it's a bit dodgy. You definitely have to be
1:44:31 > 1:44:37careful about it and make it very clear. And that is something that is
1:44:37 > 1:44:42becoming more and more clear in how important it is. You are aware of
1:44:42 > 1:44:46your responsibility because so many young kids, boys in particular
1:44:46 > 1:44:53subscriber and watch your staff. I think it is something you realise
1:44:53 > 1:44:56more and more as you gain subscribers and views and when you
1:44:56 > 1:45:02meet people in real life especially as you Tube, what I do is very much
1:45:02 > 1:45:08about myself and my personality in real-life, so people see you as more
1:45:08 > 1:45:15of a friend and someone they know in real life instead of a character and
1:45:15 > 1:45:19many people on you Tube are different in real life but I'm quite
1:45:19 > 1:45:26similar. People look up to that is the norm much more if you do
1:45:26 > 1:45:33stopping videos just because you have a camera in your bedroom and
1:45:33 > 1:45:38whatever and you talk to people as yourself. I think there is that
1:45:38 > 1:45:41responsibility that people see you more as an actual person and think,
1:45:41 > 1:45:47that is how he acts in real-life, and that is what he wears in
1:45:47 > 1:45:53real-life. You become more aware of that, certainly.Thank you very
1:45:53 > 1:45:59much, Chris, and good luck with the book. Thanks for coming in. Thanks
1:45:59 > 1:46:05for your messages on Donald Trump's suggestion that teachers, if they
1:46:05 > 1:46:14were armoured, could deter shootings in US schools.
1:46:14 > 1:46:17Federer this is from Mike Cummings says, the ownership of guns in the
1:46:17 > 1:46:23USA will not change, President Trump is right, the cure for a bad guy
1:46:23 > 1:46:29with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Another viewers suggests, Mr Trump
1:46:29 > 1:46:34must be receiving a lot of funding from the NRA, what a bizarre
1:46:34 > 1:46:38solution, imagine a teacher going crazy and shooting a class. The
1:46:38 > 1:46:43teachers union must be astonished at such a suggestion. Thank you for
1:46:43 > 1:46:47your views.
1:46:47 > 1:46:48Tougher sentences have been recommended for those
1:46:48 > 1:46:51convicted of domestic abuse in England and Wales.
1:46:51 > 1:46:57Courts are being told to treat cases more seriously when they involve
1:46:57 > 1:47:02family members and domestic abuse has also been extended to include
1:47:02 > 1:47:06non-physical forms such as threats and social media. Vivian suffered
1:47:06 > 1:47:11abuse at the hands of her husband for 14 years.
1:47:11 > 1:47:14She's now an author and founder of Ignite Benevolence Fund -
1:47:14 > 1:47:16an organisation which helps vulnerable African and Caribbean
1:47:16 > 1:47:22women in abusive relationships.
1:47:22 > 1:47:25Katie Ghose, Chief Executive of the charity, Woman's Aid.
1:47:25 > 1:47:27And in Worcester is Jill Gramann, a magistrate and member
1:47:27 > 1:47:29of the Sentencing Council.
1:47:29 > 1:47:33Jill, let me begin with you, what is the thinking behind this change in
1:47:33 > 1:47:40the guidelines?The last guidelines produced by our predecessor
1:47:40 > 1:47:45organisation were 12 years ago. They stated that offences committed in a
1:47:45 > 1:47:49domestic situation where no less serious than offences committed
1:47:49 > 1:47:53elsewhere. Now the thinking has changed dramatically in the last 12
1:47:53 > 1:47:59years. We are now thinking that offences committed in the domestic
1:47:59 > 1:48:09scenario are more serious than in another environment.Why?We are
1:48:09 > 1:48:14drawing the attention to sentences that people who perpetrate offences
1:48:14 > 1:48:17that occur within a domestic environment should receive more
1:48:17 > 1:48:21severe sentences and should also bear in mind when looking at the
1:48:21 > 1:48:26whole gamut of domestic abuse that it is not domestic violence by any
1:48:26 > 1:48:34means on its own. It can be psychological, emotional, financial
1:48:34 > 1:48:37exploitation and control, of, as you have indicated, partners or other
1:48:37 > 1:48:43family members. The consequence would be that sentences will be more
1:48:43 > 1:48:48severe for people who plead guilty or are found guilty.But why should
1:48:48 > 1:48:52they be more serious punishments when it occurs in a domestic
1:48:52 > 1:48:58setting, if I can put it like that? Within a domestic setting you have a
1:48:58 > 1:49:02right to feel safe, to feel secure, to trust the person that you live
1:49:02 > 1:49:08with other people who raise you and care for you, allegedly. Or people
1:49:08 > 1:49:15with whom you live. The sentencing council, for some time now, has
1:49:15 > 1:49:20looked at breach of trust as being an aggravated factor in a number of
1:49:20 > 1:49:24situations. And this is the ultimate situation where a breach of trust
1:49:24 > 1:49:33within a family situation makes that offence is much more serious.Vivien
1:49:33 > 1:49:36Rose, do you agree?Definitely with the breach of trust, the punishment
1:49:36 > 1:49:43should be more serious because of that bit of dust? I don't of the
1:49:43 > 1:49:48punishment should be serious or if they should act more quickly.
1:49:48 > 1:49:53Because again you'll have to prove, the onus is still on the proofing.
1:49:53 > 1:49:59This is the issue. You have intimate relationships. Because they are so
1:49:59 > 1:50:06intimate you have to prove that what you say is true.Once you do that,
1:50:06 > 1:50:09say the new guidelines, domestic offences will be treated more
1:50:09 > 1:50:14seriously than similar crimes not involving family or partners because
1:50:14 > 1:50:18of this breach of trust not normally associated with nonfamily
1:50:18 > 1:50:22relationships.Because that would bring outward control in terms of
1:50:22 > 1:50:26people understanding the severity of what they are doing which many
1:50:26 > 1:50:31abusers do not understand. They justify it.And parts of society
1:50:31 > 1:50:37still don't understand, do they Katy.That's right, domestic abuse
1:50:37 > 1:50:42is coming out of the shadows, I am glad Vivien that you mentioned
1:50:42 > 1:50:46control, which is at the heart of this matter. We have long been
1:50:46 > 1:50:50calling for the severity of domestic abuse to be reflected properly and
1:50:50 > 1:50:55sentencing. In simple terms this is what it is about, the guidelines are
1:50:55 > 1:51:01explicitly saying, the psychological control and abuse can be horrendous
1:51:01 > 1:51:05and it can happen on its own or it can happen alongside threats of
1:51:05 > 1:51:10physical or sexual assault as well. It is like a catch-up. It was 2006
1:51:10 > 1:51:16when the guidelines will last looked at. They are being updated to what
1:51:16 > 1:51:24we now understand about the culture of domestic abuse.Vivien could you
1:51:24 > 1:51:29tell our audience about the time when you were subjected to domestic
1:51:29 > 1:51:36abuse.I was married, we had a volatile relationship bed when we
1:51:36 > 1:51:40sat down and said Wright, these are the boundaries of how we are
1:51:40 > 1:51:44supposed to relate. I found myself now realising that he wasn't able to
1:51:44 > 1:51:54stop doing what he was doing. He was very physical. Mentor, which is that
1:51:54 > 1:52:02they destroy your self-confidence, who you are, whoever I had spoken
1:52:02 > 1:52:06to, that went on for five years but I had it. That's the wrong thing to
1:52:06 > 1:52:14do. To isolate yourself. You have to bring it out to people. That made it
1:52:14 > 1:52:24worse because it put me within his control.It is sometimes difficult
1:52:24 > 1:52:32because you think, if it is my fault...That is what I found
1:52:32 > 1:52:36literally destroyed me emotionally because you begin to question your
1:52:36 > 1:52:42south, bad? Didn't actually look at the fact that you don't deserve it.
1:52:42 > 1:52:48. It is not to do with you. It is to do with how someone thinks it is
1:52:48 > 1:52:53their right to manipulate another human being. I tell women, even as a
1:52:53 > 1:52:57mother, I've got two children, I still have a responsibility with how
1:52:57 > 1:53:04I speak to them. How I relate to them, even if I am disciplining
1:53:04 > 1:53:09this, I still have to have respect and honour their dignity in that and
1:53:09 > 1:53:15that helps women to understand what their partner should be doing to
1:53:15 > 1:53:19them.Thank you very much, thank you Katie and thank you Jill from the
1:53:19 > 1:53:31organisation that has produced these new sentencing guidelines.
1:53:34 > 1:53:39Thank you for your messages, many on antidepressants suggests that they
1:53:39 > 1:53:44do work. Carr asks, what does the study mean, were patients tell that
1:53:44 > 1:53:48they were better, or were patients asked how they felt and whether they
1:53:48 > 1:53:54found themselves to feel better, almost always in such studies it is
1:53:54 > 1:53:56professionals who decide that people feel better and the views of the
1:53:56 > 1:53:59patient are ignored.
1:53:59 > 1:54:02The Brit Awards took place at London's 02 Arena last night -
1:54:02 > 1:54:05and it was a night to remember for grime artist Stormzy
1:54:05 > 1:54:07who stole the show - picking up two awards
1:54:07 > 1:54:09for Best British Male and Best British Album,
1:54:09 > 1:54:10beating Ed Sheeran in the processs.
1:54:10 > 1:54:13The rapper closed the show with an emotional performance
1:54:13 > 1:54:15where in a freestyle verse he criticised Theresa May's
1:54:15 > 1:54:25response to the Grenfell Fire.
1:54:25 > 1:54:28With me now is our entertainment reporter Chi Chi Izundu
1:54:28 > 1:54:29who was at the Brits last night.
1:54:29 > 1:54:35Let's start with Stormzy, quite a night of surprises for him. He took
1:54:35 > 1:54:40on the best Male Solo artist award and also the best album album of the
1:54:40 > 1:54:47year award, a surprise for him because he was getting ready to
1:54:47 > 1:54:52perform, and boy did he perform. Three things we should take from his
1:54:52 > 1:54:55freestyle rap with to include his criticism of Theresa May and Grennan
1:54:55 > 1:55:00fell. He basically asked, did you think we had forgotten about
1:55:00 > 1:55:04Grenfell Tower is? Where is the money that was promised to help the
1:55:04 > 1:55:08survivors after people were killed in the fire last year? I think we
1:55:08 > 1:55:22have a club of his performance. -- I think we have a clip.
1:55:22 > 1:55:24# Yo Theresa May, where's the money for Grenfell?
1:55:24 > 1:55:28# What, you thought we just forgot about Grenfell?
1:55:28 > 1:55:38# You're criminals and you've got the cheek to call us Savages
1:55:38 > 1:55:46# We should burn your house down and Seaview can manage this! #.
1:55:46 > 1:55:48He was basically criticising the Prime Minister and saying, you have
1:55:48 > 1:55:53not kept any of your promises. The other thing that is important was
1:55:53 > 1:55:56trying to point out that artists like him are not the folks that they
1:55:56 > 1:56:01are portrayed as in the media. He criticises the Daily Mail. He says
1:56:01 > 1:56:04he is incredibly proud when he puts on the TV and is people like
1:56:04 > 1:56:13yourself, which feels deliberately feels does not often happen, he
1:56:13 > 1:56:21named the actor nominated for an Oscar for his role in the horror
1:56:21 > 1:56:27film Get Out. He basically recognise that he had a platform and he was
1:56:27 > 1:56:33going to use it to make a statement. He also won Best album. His album
1:56:33 > 1:56:39last year was the tenth best selling album. Ed Sheeran sold millions and
1:56:39 > 1:56:45millions and millions. Do we feel sorry for Ed Sheeran? We can't come
1:56:45 > 1:56:49living the dream.Exactly, he's living the dream and he has just got
1:56:49 > 1:56:53engaged. He won the global success award, nobody else could touch him
1:56:53 > 1:57:00for that with his ridiculous numbers of breaking streaming records, of
1:57:00 > 1:57:04album sales, often touring stadiums around the world, he is literally
1:57:04 > 1:57:07living the dream. But and is interesting that Stormzy won album
1:57:07 > 1:57:11of the year because only two years ago he did another freestyle rap
1:57:11 > 1:57:16when he called at the Brit awards and the fact that they were ignoring
1:57:16 > 1:57:21crime as a music genre. So they changed a panel of those who vote.
1:57:21 > 1:57:26Which may have been good news for Dua Lipa because more women are on
1:57:26 > 1:57:34that voting panel now.Let's remember how these things work. In a
1:57:34 > 1:57:39minute you get a bunch of labels putting forward artists onto, who
1:57:39 > 1:57:44should you pick to vote for an award. The name of Dua Lipa keeps
1:57:44 > 1:57:50coming up. Obviously, depending on who she is up against, it is not as
1:57:50 > 1:57:57simple as, there are more women so she will get more votes, it depends
1:57:57 > 1:58:01how many women are put forward and who is put forward, they currently
1:58:01 > 1:58:06relevant. She did do well, two awards, British female Solo artist
1:58:06 > 1:58:09and British breakthrough act, she said it was the women. I will
1:58:09 > 1:58:13quickly point out that all the artists were given white roses,
1:58:13 > 1:58:17whether they were holding one or more opinion on any of their
1:58:17 > 1:58:21clothes, that was the music industry's nod to the MeToo
1:58:21 > 1:58:29campaign. Thank you, Chi Chi. Thank you for your company today, we'll be
1:58:29 > 1:58:31back tomorrow at nine, BBC Newsroom is next, live.