27/02/2018

0:00:07 > 0:00:09Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

0:00:09 > 0:00:17welcome to the programme.

0:00:18 > 0:00:20Our top story today: just one centimetre of snow in parts

0:00:20 > 0:00:23of the south east of England, yet it's still causing traffic

0:00:23 > 0:00:25chaos, with hundreds of trains cancelled and many schools closed.

0:00:25 > 0:00:27I have to go to work tomorrow.

0:00:27 > 0:00:29My wife has to go to work.

0:00:29 > 0:00:32So if one of us has to call in sick, we lose the money

0:00:32 > 0:00:34so hopefully the school will be open.

0:00:34 > 0:00:35We've waited for snow for three years.

0:00:35 > 0:00:38I'm desperate for it to snow!

0:00:38 > 0:00:41In Northumberland, there's been eight centimetres of snow.

0:00:41 > 0:00:42We'll bring you the picture from right around the country.

0:00:42 > 0:00:46Also on the programme: we can reveal that Facebook have funded a project

0:00:46 > 0:00:49using their own Messenger app to try to deradicalise extremists.

0:00:49 > 0:00:54It's never going to be enough simply to take down content

0:00:54 > 0:00:57because there will always be either grey areas, or more importantly,

0:00:57 > 0:01:00there will be people who are tempted and interested in that path,

0:01:00 > 0:01:04regardless of what content we take down.

0:01:04 > 0:01:06And actually finding ways to engage with those people

0:01:06 > 0:01:07is really important.

0:01:07 > 0:01:10We'll bring you the full exclusive story shortly.

0:01:10 > 0:01:14Plus, we had such an incredible response from you to our programme

0:01:14 > 0:01:18live from a pupil referral unit yesterday, that today

0:01:18 > 0:01:20we want to hear from you, your experiences of PRUs,

0:01:20 > 0:01:23whether you were taught at one yourself or your child goes to one.

0:01:23 > 0:01:26Please do get in touch throughout the programme this morning

0:01:26 > 0:01:33and we'll speak to some of you on air after 10am.

0:01:37 > 0:01:40Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11am.

0:01:40 > 0:01:42Throughout the morning we'll have the latest breaking news

0:01:42 > 0:01:45and developing stories.

0:01:45 > 0:01:48A little later in the programme, we'll be hearing how another 100

0:01:48 > 0:01:51schoolgirls have been kidnapped by the Boko Haram militant group

0:01:51 > 0:01:54in Nigeria and asking why it isn't leading to another massive outcry.

0:01:54 > 0:02:01Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

0:02:01 > 0:02:04use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and if you text, you will be charged

0:02:04 > 0:02:07at the standard network rate.

0:02:07 > 0:02:10Our top story today: snow is falling across parts of the UK as cold air

0:02:10 > 0:02:12begins to sweep in from Russia.

0:02:12 > 0:02:14The Met Office has issued amber warnings for large parts

0:02:14 > 0:02:20of the south east and north east of England.

0:02:20 > 0:02:25Up to 10cm of snow is expected today and as much as 20cm is predicted

0:02:25 > 0:02:30in some parts of eastern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland

0:02:30 > 0:02:32by the end of Wednesday.

0:02:32 > 0:02:35Drivers are being warned they could face major disruption.

0:02:35 > 0:02:38More than 200 trains are no longer running,

0:02:38 > 0:02:46while British Airways says over 60 flights have been cancelled.

0:02:46 > 0:02:48We will hear from our correspondence across the UK now.

0:02:48 > 0:02:51Phil Bodmer is in Stamford Bridge in East Yorkshire.

0:02:51 > 0:02:57Tell us about the picture there. Good morning, as you can see, it is

0:02:57 > 0:03:00snowing again in Stamford Bridge on the edge of the Yorkshire Moors and

0:03:00 > 0:03:03it has been snowing off and on throughout the morning. I have to

0:03:03 > 0:03:06say, this area is right in the middle of one of the amber weather

0:03:06 > 0:03:11warning areas but we have not had ten centimetres of snow predicted,

0:03:11 > 0:03:15however, that is not to say we won't get it because this snow is quite

0:03:15 > 0:03:21heavy now. I have to say the main A166 which links the Yorkshire coast

0:03:21 > 0:03:25with the major centres of Yorkshire like Leeds and yorkers remained

0:03:25 > 0:03:28open, the gritting teams have been out and we have seen snowploughs

0:03:28 > 0:03:34this morning. -- and York has remained. The main problem seems to

0:03:34 > 0:03:38be an public transport and with the airlines. If you are travelling

0:03:38 > 0:03:42abroad, the advice is to check with your airline. On the trains, Network

0:03:42 > 0:03:45Rail are saying you should allow extra time because they have been

0:03:45 > 0:03:50running trains through the night to clear the rails. On the roads,

0:03:50 > 0:03:54Merseyside Police, the Northwest motorway police and Lincolnshire

0:03:54 > 0:03:57Police all report accidents on treacherous surfaces and they are

0:03:57 > 0:04:02warning drivers to take extra care. Snow continuing to fall here in

0:04:02 > 0:04:09Stamford Bridge. My colleague Robert Hall is in Ashford in Kent.

0:04:10 > 0:04:15Yes, we are right alongside the M20 so first of all, straight to

0:04:15 > 0:04:18Sambadrome pictures we shot about an hour ago to give you the general

0:04:18 > 0:04:23situation, about five centimetres of snow on the ground, just like in

0:04:23 > 0:04:27Yorkshire, it is coming and going. Kent County Council declared what

0:04:27 > 0:04:31they called a snow emergency yesterday, which basically meant

0:04:31 > 0:04:34they got every available gritting truck on the road and they alerted

0:04:34 > 0:04:38farmers with snowploughs so the country roads were covered. Broadly,

0:04:38 > 0:04:44the region's roads are running but we have had difficulties on the M2,

0:04:44 > 0:04:49the M20, the A249 which is just to the south-east of London at the

0:04:49 > 0:04:54north of the M20, they have big hills up there so we had jackknifed

0:04:54 > 0:04:57lorries and car accidents and when the car crashes happen, the gritters

0:04:57 > 0:05:00cannot come through and it needs the traffic to make the salt and the

0:05:00 > 0:05:07great work. Once the traffic flows, we expect things to improve. As to

0:05:07 > 0:05:11the trains, similar to the North. They are changing the timetable,

0:05:11 > 0:05:14running longer trains, which apparently are less likely to run

0:05:14 > 0:05:18into difficulties so the only issue is really are that travellers are

0:05:18 > 0:05:22still complaining they are not being told enough quickly enough which is

0:05:22 > 0:05:25something I am sure south-east trains are looking at. School

0:05:25 > 0:05:31closures, yes, handful closed. I think what everyone is saying is,

0:05:31 > 0:05:35what is on the ground now, with the temperatures, is likely to say so if

0:05:35 > 0:05:39we get the heavy falls expected later in the week, things will get a

0:05:39 > 0:05:46lot more difficult. Let's go to ethics, Ben Ando in Colchester.

0:05:46 > 0:05:52Hello, the situation here is that commuters were facing frustration,

0:05:52 > 0:05:55normally there would be dozens of trains running from here to London,

0:05:55 > 0:05:57Colchester is a big commuter town with lots of people heading into

0:05:57 > 0:06:03London to work. Many of those trains had to be cancelled because Network

0:06:03 > 0:06:09Rail told the passenger train companies like Greater Anglia, TfL

0:06:09 > 0:06:12or great Northern that they would have to be running slower trains,

0:06:12 > 0:06:16there would be speed restrictions and may be problems with points

0:06:16 > 0:06:20freezing up, all of these things mean the service has to be reduced.

0:06:20 > 0:06:24The message seems to have got through. There have been plenty of

0:06:24 > 0:06:28people coming to catch trains but certainly not as many as normal and

0:06:28 > 0:06:32so by planning ahead and letting people know there would be problems,

0:06:32 > 0:06:36it seems that perhaps some of the difficult scenes with people barging

0:06:36 > 0:06:42to get onto trains have been avoided. Going forward, the company

0:06:42 > 0:06:46says they hope to reinstate trains is possible because certainly, the

0:06:46 > 0:06:50snow has not been as bad as forecast but the freezing temperatures are

0:06:50 > 0:06:55continuing to cause difficulties and that looks likely to be the case,

0:06:55 > 0:07:01especially with more snow forecast later on.Ben Ando in Essex, there

0:07:01 > 0:07:05are, Robert Hall in Kent and Phil Bodmer in Yorkshire, many thanks. We

0:07:05 > 0:07:08will bring you the full weather forecast just before 10am.

0:07:08 > 0:07:12Reeta Chakrabarti is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

0:07:12 > 0:07:16of the rest of the day's news.

0:07:16 > 0:07:19The former most senior civil servant at the Department for International

0:07:19 > 0:07:23Trade has truly criticised proposals for Britain to leave the EU Customs

0:07:23 > 0:07:28union. Sir Martin Donnelly, left his post last year, said 60% of UK trade

0:07:28 > 0:07:31was either with the EU or the countries it has agreements with. He

0:07:31 > 0:07:34said future bilateral trade deals cannot compensate for leaving the

0:07:34 > 0:07:36customs union.

0:07:36 > 0:07:40If we look at where we are now with fair and equal access

0:07:40 > 0:07:45to the very large, rich EU market which is nearly half

0:07:45 > 0:07:48of our service and goods exports, plus preferential access to other

0:07:48 > 0:07:52markets which gets us up to about three fifths of our trade,

0:07:52 > 0:07:56if you are going to give that up for the promise of some bilateral

0:07:56 > 0:07:58deals with markets that are much less important to us,

0:07:58 > 0:08:01it is like giving up a three-course meal for a packet of crisps.

0:08:01 > 0:08:09It is just not equivalent and we have to recognise that reality.

0:08:09 > 0:08:12The BBC has learned that Syrian women have been sexually exploited

0:08:12 > 0:08:14by local men delivering aid on behalf of the United Nations

0:08:14 > 0:08:17and international charities.

0:08:17 > 0:08:21Two humanitarian agencies warned about the abuse in 2015,

0:08:21 > 0:08:24but a new UN report shows that aid is still being exchanged for sex

0:08:24 > 0:08:26in the south of the country.

0:08:26 > 0:08:28Danielle Spencer is a humanitarian worker who conducted focus

0:08:28 > 0:08:30groups with these women, and she spoke to our diplomatic

0:08:30 > 0:08:32correspondent James Landale.

0:08:32 > 0:08:39So they were withholding the aid that had been delivered and then

0:08:39 > 0:08:45using these women for sex.

0:08:45 > 0:08:51So, this was a range of women, women of different ages in the group.

0:08:51 > 0:08:53Some had experienced it themselves.

0:08:53 > 0:08:56Some were very distraught.

0:08:56 > 0:09:04I remember one woman crying in the room.

0:09:04 > 0:09:08She was very upset.

0:09:08 > 0:09:11You know, women and girls need to be protected

0:09:11 > 0:09:15when they are trying to receive food.

0:09:15 > 0:09:17Meanwhile, a five-hour pause in the Syrian government's assault

0:09:17 > 0:09:21on Eastern Ghouta has begun.

0:09:21 > 0:09:24The enclave has faced an intense air and ground attack by pro-government

0:09:24 > 0:09:26forces for more than a week.

0:09:26 > 0:09:28Russia's President, Vladimir Putin, has ordered

0:09:28 > 0:09:31the humanitarian pause so that civilians can

0:09:31 > 0:09:33flee and humanitarian aid can be delivered.

0:09:33 > 0:09:36The International Committee of the Red Cross says aid

0:09:36 > 0:09:44organisations are ready to go in as soon as possible.

0:09:44 > 0:09:51The US cable TV giant Comcast has made a £22.1 billion takeover bid

0:09:51 > 0:09:55for Sky, challenging the existing offer from 21st century Fox. Rupert

0:09:55 > 0:10:00Murdoch's 21st century Fox had already agreed and £18.5 billion

0:10:00 > 0:10:05deal to buy the 61% of Sky it does not audio in. Comcast, the biggest

0:10:05 > 0:10:09cable TV firm in the US, said it wanted to use Sky as a black form

0:10:09 > 0:10:13for growth in Europe. -- as a platform for growth.

0:10:13 > 0:10:15Facebook has funded a pilot programme using its Messenger

0:10:15 > 0:10:16service to try to deradicalise extremists.

0:10:16 > 0:10:19Users posting extreme far-right and Islamist content in the UK

0:10:19 > 0:10:21were identified and contacted in an attempt to

0:10:21 > 0:10:22challenge their views.

0:10:22 > 0:10:23But privacy campaigners have criticised the initiative,

0:10:23 > 0:10:26suggesting the social media giant was straying into surveillance.

0:10:26 > 0:10:31You can watch our exclusive report in just a moment.

0:10:31 > 0:10:35This programme has been told that convicted paedophile Barry Bennell

0:10:35 > 0:10:38was sacked as a youth football coach at Crewe Alexandra a short time

0:10:38 > 0:10:40after parents confronted him and threatened to call the police

0:10:40 > 0:10:42about his behaviour.

0:10:42 > 0:10:4564-year-old Bennell was given a 31-year sentence for abusing young

0:10:45 > 0:10:49boys in his care ten days ago.

0:10:49 > 0:10:51Some of the victims were linked to Crewe Alexandra, where Bennell

0:10:51 > 0:10:54was employed for seven years until he left in 1992.

0:10:54 > 0:10:58The club has denied it knew anything about his behaviour

0:10:58 > 0:11:06or the abuse and said he left for footballing reasons.

0:11:06 > 0:11:09An armed police officer criticised by Donald Trump after the recent

0:11:09 > 0:11:12school shooting in Florida has defended his actions. Scot Peterson

0:11:12 > 0:11:17was outside the school when a gunman killed 17 people. But in a

0:11:17 > 0:11:21statement, the officer's lawyer said it was blatantly untrue that his

0:11:21 > 0:11:24client was a coward. The US president says he would have gone

0:11:24 > 0:11:29into the school even if he had been unarmed.

0:11:29 > 0:11:32You know, I really believe, you don't know until you test it

0:11:32 > 0:11:35but I really believe I'd run in there, even if I didn't have

0:11:35 > 0:11:38a weapon and I think most of the people in this room

0:11:38 > 0:11:40would have done that too because I know most of you.

0:11:40 > 0:11:42But the way they performed was really a disgrace.

0:11:42 > 0:11:50That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

0:11:50 > 0:11:53After 10am, we are going to talk to some of you who have experienced of

0:11:53 > 0:11:58pupil referral units. We are focusing on them or this week. We

0:11:58 > 0:12:04were live yesterday for the whole programme from a primary pupil

0:12:04 > 0:12:07referral unit in north-east London. So many of you got in touch. We want

0:12:07 > 0:12:10to talk to you today wherever you are in the country if your child

0:12:10 > 0:12:15goes to one, if you were educated at one. This text from Kerry came in

0:12:15 > 0:12:18among the many messages about yesterday, "Well done to all the

0:12:18 > 0:12:21teachers and children in the referral unit on your programme. The

0:12:21 > 0:12:25teachers have shown what hard work it is but how rewarding the job is,

0:12:25 > 0:12:31it just goes to show what discipline, consistency and being

0:12:31 > 0:12:34calm in difficult situations can do. I really take my hat off to the

0:12:34 > 0:12:36teachers. They are brilliant. "

0:12:36 > 0:12:39Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

0:12:39 > 0:12:42use the hashtag Victoria live and If you text, you will be charged

0:12:42 > 0:12:43at the standard network rate.

0:12:43 > 0:12:46You can use WhatsApp, and Facebook as well and we will feed your

0:12:46 > 0:12:47personal expenses into the conversation.

0:12:47 > 0:12:52Time for the sport and we will start to reaction to the death of a

0:12:52 > 0:12:58British boxer over the weekend.Not a discussion we like to have, those

0:12:58 > 0:13:00that work in sport, in fact a discussion we would rather not be

0:13:00 > 0:13:03having but boxing has been put back under the spotlight by another death

0:13:03 > 0:13:08at the age of just 31, Scott Westgarth has become the third

0:13:08 > 0:13:13fighter to lose his life after about in the last three years. It is a

0:13:13 > 0:13:17difficult discussion, there's over 1000 professional boxers in the UK.

0:13:17 > 0:13:22Incidents like this are rare. The last three coming after a 15 year

0:13:22 > 0:13:27gap without a boxing related death but I think when you see some of the

0:13:27 > 0:13:30crowds at fights, baying and screening for knockout, it serves as

0:13:30 > 0:13:34a reminder to all of us that there are real injuries and worse

0:13:34 > 0:13:38incurred. Since Scott Westgarth's death, so many tributes but I've

0:13:38 > 0:13:43picked out a few on social media. Tony Bellew, the former

0:13:43 > 0:13:47cruiserweight world champion, said his condolences but added that he is

0:13:47 > 0:13:51forever telling people how dangerous it is and he says he hopes people

0:13:51 > 0:13:54think in future before topping insults divider. Former Northern

0:13:54 > 0:13:58Irish world Champion Carl Frampton said it is a stark reminder of how

0:13:58 > 0:14:01dangerous the sport is. British heavyweight David Price said a

0:14:01 > 0:14:05fellow fighter, a brother to all of us, put it all on the line and paid

0:14:05 > 0:14:09the ultimate price. So sad. A difficult time for the conversation

0:14:09 > 0:14:15to be had but a reminder that the British Medical Association's stance

0:14:15 > 0:14:18on it is that boxing should be banned, long held stance and Curtis

0:14:18 > 0:14:23Woodhouse, who was due to headline on the evening of the fight, said it

0:14:23 > 0:14:28now makes him question the morality of the sport.It seems there could

0:14:28 > 0:14:33be a new sporting career on the wafer Usain Bolt?Plenty of teams in

0:14:33 > 0:14:37the country could do with an injection of pace in their side! I'm

0:14:37 > 0:14:40not sure you can do much better than the eight time Olympic gold

0:14:40 > 0:14:43medallist Usain Bolt, shorter but the frighteners on any defence, he

0:14:43 > 0:14:47denounced this morning he will be playing in this year's soccer aid

0:14:47 > 0:14:51match at Old Trafford in the summer. He's a big Manchester United fan and

0:14:51 > 0:14:55says he once discussed the idea of a trial with their former boss Sir

0:14:55 > 0:15:00Alex Ferguson. During his running career, he was deluded enough to

0:15:00 > 0:15:04save himself for the track but now he has hung up his spikes, good new

0:15:04 > 0:15:12sporting career beyond the horizon? -- put a new sporting career.

0:15:12 > 0:15:19Robbie, let me entertain you!You can run but you can't hide.Stick to

0:15:19 > 0:15:23singing and leave the football to me.Our very own Robbie Williams

0:15:23 > 0:15:26captained the England team and puts on the match for the charity Unicef

0:15:26 > 0:15:31and he just answered Usain Bolt will captain the world 11 so if you get a

0:15:31 > 0:15:35ticket, you might see a unique bit of sporting history, a Bold goal at

0:15:35 > 0:15:37Old Trafford. More sport later.

0:15:44 > 0:15:45Good morning, welcome to our programme.

0:15:45 > 0:15:47Good morning, welcome to our programme.

0:15:47 > 0:15:53Facebook is often criticised for not doing enough to stop

0:15:53 > 0:15:56the spread of hate messages but we can exclusively reveal

0:15:56 > 0:15:58that the social media giant has been funding a project

0:15:58 > 0:16:01which saw their messenger system used to try to de-radicalise people.

0:16:01 > 0:16:04Users posting extreme far-right and Islamist content in the UK

0:16:04 > 0:16:07were identified and contacted in an attempt to

0:16:07 > 0:16:09challenge their views.

0:16:09 > 0:16:12It's been criticised by privacy campaigners as Facebook

0:16:12 > 0:16:15straying into surveillance.

0:16:15 > 0:16:21Our reporter Catrin Nye had an exclusive look

0:16:21 > 0:16:23at the project for us.

0:16:23 > 0:16:26So, first of all I'd private message them,

0:16:26 > 0:16:29just ask them a few questions on what's on their profile page.

0:16:29 > 0:16:31Would you have a look first at what was on there?

0:16:31 > 0:16:32Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:16:32 > 0:16:34Colin Bidwell is a victim of terrorism.

0:16:34 > 0:16:37He's been paid to go on Facebook using a fake profile

0:16:37 > 0:16:39and message extremists.

0:16:39 > 0:16:44It's part of a project funded by Facebook themselves.

0:16:44 > 0:16:47I'd just let them know I don't want to kill anybody,

0:16:47 > 0:16:50I'd like to talk to people to work the issue out.

0:16:50 > 0:16:53In my case, I should hate Muslim extremists,

0:16:53 > 0:16:56I'm lucky to be alive.

0:16:56 > 0:16:59So I thought I'd open up and maybe explain about me.

0:16:59 > 0:17:04On holiday in Tunisia in the summer of 2015,

0:17:04 > 0:17:08Colin saw dozens of people shot dead on the beach he was sunbathing on.

0:17:08 > 0:17:16Someone firing a gun.

0:17:16 > 0:17:19Bullets flying everywhere.

0:17:19 > 0:17:22I had a lucky escape on that day.

0:17:22 > 0:17:24A lot didn't, but I did, for some reason.

0:17:24 > 0:17:26I'm here today.

0:17:26 > 0:17:29Be nice to people, whatever your beliefs or religion

0:17:29 > 0:17:32for me, it's simple.

0:17:32 > 0:17:34For this project, researchers found people posting both extreme Islamist

0:17:34 > 0:17:37and far right material on Facebook.

0:17:37 > 0:17:40Colin was tasked with talking to the people posting

0:17:40 > 0:17:44extreme Islamist content, people who may support the killer

0:17:44 > 0:17:47on the beach in Tunisia, and challenging their views.

0:17:47 > 0:17:51I just keep saying it, you can have your extreme

0:17:51 > 0:17:53beliefs and everything, but when it gets to the extreme

0:17:53 > 0:17:56violence, that's the bit I can't understand.

0:17:56 > 0:18:04I understand the issues that are upsetting you.

0:18:04 > 0:18:07Sadia has been doing the same.

0:18:07 > 0:18:09She's a former extremist herself.

0:18:09 > 0:18:11We've changed her name to protect her identity.

0:18:11 > 0:18:18But, is this the way forward?

0:18:18 > 0:18:21And what sort of thing was on the profiles of the people

0:18:21 > 0:18:23you were speaking to?

0:18:23 > 0:18:28A lot of them were pictures of Isis flags and they had a lot of lions

0:18:28 > 0:18:34with the Isis memes on them.

0:18:34 > 0:18:39There have been a series of high-profile cases

0:18:39 > 0:18:42of far right and Islamist extremists radicalised online.

0:18:42 > 0:18:46Big tech companies like Facebook have been taking a kicking

0:18:46 > 0:18:49from politicians, saying they have to do more to stop extremism

0:18:49 > 0:18:54littering their sites.

0:18:54 > 0:18:57For this project, Colin and Sadia were known

0:18:57 > 0:19:00as intervention providers.

0:19:00 > 0:19:03There were 11 of them and they fell into three categories -

0:19:03 > 0:19:05former extremists, survivors of terrorism and

0:19:05 > 0:19:07trained counsellors.

0:19:07 > 0:19:10This was a pilot project by an organisation that

0:19:10 > 0:19:12specialises in extremism called The Institute For Strategic

0:19:12 > 0:19:16Dialogue, or ISD.

0:19:16 > 0:19:20First of all, we identified Facebook pages where people were expressing

0:19:20 > 0:19:24support for extremist groups and posting extremist content.

0:19:24 > 0:19:28We then used software to analyse the ways

0:19:28 > 0:19:31in which people were engaging.

0:19:31 > 0:19:34The researchers would then manually look at Facebook pages to select

0:19:34 > 0:19:37people posting very extreme, far right and

0:19:37 > 0:19:41Isis-supporting content.

0:19:41 > 0:19:46What was the bar for someone to be targeted, to be chosen for this?

0:19:46 > 0:19:49So, we would look for people who were using the most violent,

0:19:49 > 0:19:51the most hateful, the most dehumanising language

0:19:51 > 0:19:54towards others.

0:19:54 > 0:19:57Suggesting whole communities need to be killed, need to be eradicated.

0:19:57 > 0:20:02Allah followers are criminals and need to be annihilated.

0:20:02 > 0:20:06In all, 569 people were contacted on Facebook.

0:20:06 > 0:20:10112 people replied.

0:20:10 > 0:20:1576 had a sustained conversation and ISD claim that eight people

0:20:15 > 0:20:20showed signs that the conversation had a positive impact.

0:20:20 > 0:20:23This is small numbers, experimental.

0:20:23 > 0:20:28What was it for you that says it did work?

0:20:28 > 0:20:32The levels of sustained engagement we saw a cross these categories

0:20:32 > 0:20:37of individuals we were reaching out to, are extraordinary.

0:20:37 > 0:20:40We were trying to fill a really big gap in responses to online

0:20:40 > 0:20:43recruitment and radicalisation and that gap is in the

0:20:43 > 0:20:46direct messaging space.

0:20:46 > 0:20:49There's quite a lot of work being done to counter the general

0:20:49 > 0:20:51propaganda with counter speech and counter propaganda

0:20:51 > 0:20:58and the removal of content.

0:20:58 > 0:21:00But actually, we know extremists are very effective in peer-to-peer

0:21:00 > 0:21:03direct messaging and that's how they're most effective.

0:21:03 > 0:21:05And yet there's nothing, no systematic work being done

0:21:05 > 0:21:09to reach out on that basis, on that direct engagement bases.

0:21:09 > 0:21:12to reach out on that basis, on that direct engagement basis.

0:21:12 > 0:21:13That's the gap we've trying to fill.

0:21:13 > 0:21:16Just worried about the future for my children with all this

0:21:16 > 0:21:17violence that's online.

0:21:17 > 0:21:20The first contact I can remember, it was just so intense.

0:21:20 > 0:21:23I thought someone was going to jump out of the screen or there would be

0:21:23 > 0:21:26a bang at the door and someone was going to try and attack me.

0:21:26 > 0:21:30He really did frighten me, my first contact, when I got a reply.

0:21:30 > 0:21:32Do you think you are qualified to do this kind of work?

0:21:32 > 0:21:36I think I was a little bit entitled to do what I did,

0:21:36 > 0:21:38after what we've been through and are still going through.

0:21:38 > 0:21:41If there was the smallest chance that I could make some form

0:21:41 > 0:21:43of difference or awareness, for me, I'm in.

0:21:43 > 0:21:46I'm in.

0:21:46 > 0:21:50I think I'm entitled to ask those questions.

0:21:50 > 0:21:52Why would someone want to take another one's life, especially

0:21:52 > 0:21:55if they are innocent.

0:21:55 > 0:21:57Yeah.

0:21:57 > 0:21:59That is different though, isn't it, justification and qualification?

0:21:59 > 0:22:02Yes, it is, it is.

0:22:02 > 0:22:05I'm certainly not qualified.

0:22:05 > 0:22:09I know I did quite well on the programme, but may be

0:22:09 > 0:22:13because everything was genuine, I was asking from me.

0:22:13 > 0:22:16You know, I wasn't taking it from a book, I was taking

0:22:16 > 0:22:19this from experience.

0:22:19 > 0:22:25It's always me thinking how would I speak to me,

0:22:25 > 0:22:28and what would have made me change my views.?

0:22:28 > 0:22:31I had quite radical views when I was in my teens.

0:22:31 > 0:22:34I felt voiceless, I felt as though there was an injustice that

0:22:34 > 0:22:37no one was addressing.

0:22:37 > 0:22:42And I can really relate to these young people.

0:22:42 > 0:22:45This project has raised serious concerns for privacy campaigners.

0:22:45 > 0:22:49They are very worried about Facebook, a website that

0:22:49 > 0:22:54advertises itself as a place for friends to connect.

0:22:54 > 0:22:56It's funding this kind of, what they call surveillance.

0:22:56 > 0:22:59Based on the headlines, people might find it attractive

0:22:59 > 0:23:02because it does seem to be a way to counter something people

0:23:02 > 0:23:04are very worried about.

0:23:04 > 0:23:10But you need to be very careful when you are dealing with issues

0:23:10 > 0:23:13that really concern the public in terms of their fear of extremism,

0:23:13 > 0:23:16their fear for their own physical well-being and that of their family,

0:23:16 > 0:23:19Whether these things are affected.

0:23:19 > 0:23:22I think it will make people sceptical about the role of social

0:23:22 > 0:23:23media organisations.

0:23:23 > 0:23:26It will make people, who are concerned about surveillance

0:23:26 > 0:23:29and aware of the many ways it can happen, either by companies

0:23:29 > 0:23:37or by governments, more suspicious.

0:23:40 > 0:23:42Like when are you not being monitored?

0:23:42 > 0:23:44Millie is especially worried about the fact that Facebook funded

0:23:44 > 0:23:47a project that broke its own rules and created fake

0:23:47 > 0:23:48profiles for this work.

0:23:48 > 0:23:50To now allow fake profiles and people to infiltrate groups

0:23:50 > 0:23:53and then speak to people, changes the whole dynamic

0:23:53 > 0:23:57of what Facebook is about.

0:23:57 > 0:24:00Facebook didn't give the people running this project any

0:24:00 > 0:24:03special access to the site, but they did fund it.

0:24:03 > 0:24:06Although they won't tell us exactly how much they spent.

0:24:06 > 0:24:09It's part of their wider efforts to do something

0:24:09 > 0:24:13about all the extremist material on their side.

0:24:13 > 0:24:15about all the extremist material on their site.

0:24:15 > 0:24:18At one of Facebook's London HQs, I met the UK public policy manager.

0:24:18 > 0:24:20Nice to meet you.

0:24:20 > 0:24:24This way?

0:24:24 > 0:24:26You allowed fake profiles to be made for this work,

0:24:26 > 0:24:29which is against your own rules, how did you justify that?

0:24:29 > 0:24:32So, it is against Facebook's rules to use fake accounts on our platform

0:24:32 > 0:24:35and we wouldn't advise anybody to do so, even if they are engaged

0:24:35 > 0:24:40in this kind of activity.

0:24:40 > 0:24:42Not least because our tools may well disrupt their activity.

0:24:42 > 0:24:44But it's confusing, simultaneously disrupting some, allowing others.

0:24:44 > 0:24:47It makes the rules very unclear.

0:24:47 > 0:24:51So, I would say we don't allow fake accounts on our platform

0:24:51 > 0:24:53and we don't advise people to use fake accounts at all

0:24:53 > 0:24:56in any circumstances, because they will be disrupted.

0:24:56 > 0:24:59But you did here?

0:24:59 > 0:25:02As I say, the research techniques, exactly what the researchers did

0:25:02 > 0:25:07in this circumstance was done independently of Facebook.

0:25:07 > 0:25:11We provide advice and support on how they could for example,

0:25:11 > 0:25:18communicate better with people, but the kinds of trends

0:25:18 > 0:25:20communicate better with people, the kinds of trends

0:25:20 > 0:25:22we were seeing and we provided resourcing in particular to this

0:25:22 > 0:25:24organisation to do this work.

0:25:24 > 0:25:26But the research techniques and exactly what they did

0:25:26 > 0:25:27is a matter for them.

0:25:27 > 0:25:30The Prime Minister has said recently that she wants extremist content

0:25:30 > 0:25:31removed from Facebook within two hours.

0:25:31 > 0:25:36This project relies on that extremist content to stay there.

0:25:36 > 0:25:40How do you balance those two things?

0:25:40 > 0:25:43We are completely aligned with her in the fact that we must

0:25:43 > 0:25:45remove that content as quickly as possible from our platform,

0:25:45 > 0:25:49because it can circulate very, very quickly and we know the damage

0:25:49 > 0:25:52that it can cause.

0:25:52 > 0:25:56It's never going to be enough simply to take down content,

0:25:56 > 0:25:59because there are always going to be either grey areas, but more

0:25:59 > 0:26:03importantly, there's going to be people who are tempted

0:26:03 > 0:26:06and interested in that path, regardless of what content we take

0:26:06 > 0:26:08down and actually finding ways to engage with those people

0:26:08 > 0:26:11is really, really important.

0:26:11 > 0:26:13While running this project there were a number of instances

0:26:13 > 0:26:17when researchers came across content of views that were very extreme.

0:26:17 > 0:26:22They had a protocol for dealing with that.

0:26:22 > 0:26:25I think there are concerns over who exactly is carrying out this work.

0:26:25 > 0:26:28Even if the organisation itself may have been involved in doing

0:26:28 > 0:26:30research over many years, does not mean they are qualified

0:26:30 > 0:26:33to carry out this quasi law enforcement surveillance role.

0:26:33 > 0:26:35How do you know you weren't making things worse?

0:26:35 > 0:26:38You could create an environment where people are even more

0:26:38 > 0:26:42suspicious of organisations like yours.

0:26:42 > 0:26:45Firstly, we are not government, we are a civil society

0:26:45 > 0:26:47organisation and I do believe there is an absolute need

0:26:47 > 0:26:52for more civic response to hateful ideologies.

0:26:52 > 0:26:57These are people posting publicly again, not privately, publicly.

0:26:57 > 0:26:59That Speaker's corner, they are coming out on public pages

0:26:59 > 0:27:01and saying things like, all Muslims are a virus

0:27:01 > 0:27:05and need to be stamped out.

0:27:05 > 0:27:09So you can either sensor that, perhaps they go off

0:27:09 > 0:27:12into an underground space online and become even more

0:27:12 > 0:27:15activist and radicalised.

0:27:15 > 0:27:18You can ignore it and it will fester, it will likely grow

0:27:18 > 0:27:21and we see it growing.

0:27:21 > 0:27:24Or, you can try and engage it to see if you can walk

0:27:24 > 0:27:28them back from the edge.

0:27:28 > 0:27:32Did you have people ask detail about who you were basically,

0:27:32 > 0:27:35who you were working for, what you are doing?

0:27:35 > 0:27:39Strange thing is, most people didn't.

0:27:39 > 0:27:43There was an almost, this immediate trust.

0:27:43 > 0:27:46I was coming from a genuine place, but it was worrying there

0:27:46 > 0:27:52are so many people out there that are not, hence the possible reason

0:27:52 > 0:27:57that recruiters of Daesh have been so successful.

0:27:57 > 0:28:01But they didn't know obviously their conversations

0:28:01 > 0:28:04would be seen by an organisation like ISD and that they'd be part

0:28:04 > 0:28:08of a research project?

0:28:08 > 0:28:12No, nobody asked anything of that nature, but I did say that

0:28:12 > 0:28:17I was there to try and dissuade them from holding those particular views,

0:28:17 > 0:28:20because they were dangerous.

0:28:20 > 0:28:23They didn't know the research part.

0:28:23 > 0:28:27If someone being spoken to specifically asked,

0:28:27 > 0:28:30the intervention providers would admit they were working

0:28:30 > 0:28:34for ISD, but they wouldn't say that upfront.

0:28:34 > 0:28:38Every time someone found out that the person they were talking

0:28:38 > 0:28:40to was working for you guys, every single one of those didn't

0:28:40 > 0:28:42want to talk any more?

0:28:42 > 0:28:43Yes, that's right.

0:28:43 > 0:28:46That shows this is not consensual.

0:28:46 > 0:28:49There's a lot of stuff that happens on social media that isn't

0:28:49 > 0:28:52necessarily consensual.

0:28:52 > 0:28:55Again, these are not individuals we've reached out to because we've

0:28:55 > 0:28:59somehow had a look under the bonnet into private spaces.

0:28:59 > 0:29:04We see, we have access to and we see whatever you are able to see online,

0:29:04 > 0:29:08whatever any member of the general public is able to find online.

0:29:08 > 0:29:10These are public postings.

0:29:10 > 0:29:14This is speaker's corner.

0:29:14 > 0:29:17When they asked explicitly, why they were being engaged in this way,

0:29:17 > 0:29:20we always told them the truth.

0:29:20 > 0:29:24Which was, that this was part of a programme we were running

0:29:24 > 0:29:27to counter extremism.

0:29:27 > 0:29:29If they were pushed on it, they would admit but initially

0:29:29 > 0:29:33they would try and carry on the conversation using the fake

0:29:33 > 0:29:35identity and if I'm speaking to someone using a fake

0:29:35 > 0:29:39identity, its deception.

0:29:39 > 0:29:45Again, they were speaking to their personal experiences.

0:29:45 > 0:29:53So I pushed back on the idea this is real perception.

0:29:53 > 0:29:55So I pushed back on the idea this is real deception.

0:29:55 > 0:29:58These are all individuals speaking to their own real-life experiences.

0:29:58 > 0:30:00Reaching out on an empathetic basis to engage in dialogue.

0:30:00 > 0:30:02So, in that sense I don't think its deception,

0:30:02 > 0:30:08but you are absolutely right that these are challenging issues.

0:30:08 > 0:30:11Going into people'sFacebooks using a different identity,

0:30:11 > 0:30:15do you see why this kind of work would be very controversial?

0:30:15 > 0:30:19I can see why it would be, but we have to be in this space

0:30:19 > 0:30:23if we are going to challenge these views, which are

0:30:23 > 0:30:29extremely dangerous.

0:30:29 > 0:30:33We need to use people's expertise to try and be at the very

0:30:33 > 0:30:36place and the very heart of where radicalisation happens

0:30:36 > 0:30:42and if we're not there, then you will get worse.

0:30:42 > 0:30:44and if we're not there, then it will get worse.

0:30:44 > 0:30:52It's a cancer and it needs to be tackled.

0:30:53 > 0:30:56More on this after 10.

0:30:56 > 0:30:58Still to come.

0:30:58 > 0:31:01A former Crewe Alexandra player tells us paedophile coach

0:31:01 > 0:31:09Barry Bennell was sacked by the club after parents confronted him

0:31:11 > 0:31:14about his behaviour in 1992.

0:31:14 > 0:31:18That is despite the club saying they knew nothing about it until he was

0:31:18 > 0:31:22convicted of offences in the USA two years later.

0:31:22 > 0:31:25And after our special programme yesterday from a pupil referral unit

0:31:25 > 0:31:28for primary school children, we want to hear from you about your

0:31:28 > 0:31:30experiences of PRUs.

0:31:30 > 0:31:33Were you were taught at one, or does your child go to one?

0:31:33 > 0:31:37Get in touch in the usual ways.

0:31:37 > 0:31:43Time for the latest news, here's Reeta Chakrabarti.

0:31:43 > 0:31:47The headlines this morning. Heavy snow is hitting parts of the UK,

0:31:47 > 0:31:51causing road and rail disruption and school closures. The Met office has

0:31:51 > 0:31:54issued amber warnings for large parts of the South East and North

0:31:54 > 0:31:59East of England. Up to ten centimetres of snow is expected

0:31:59 > 0:32:02today and as much as 20 centimetres is predicted in some parts of

0:32:02 > 0:32:04eastern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland by the end of

0:32:04 > 0:32:04Wednesday.

0:32:04 > 0:32:07Like "giving up a three-course meal for the promise

0:32:07 > 0:32:08of a packet of crisps".

0:32:08 > 0:32:10That's the view of the former most senior civil servant

0:32:10 > 0:32:12at the Department for International Trade on proposals

0:32:12 > 0:32:14for Britain to leave the EU customs union.

0:32:14 > 0:32:16Sir Martin Donnelly, who left his post last year,

0:32:16 > 0:32:20said 60% of UK trade was either with the EU or the countries the EU

0:32:20 > 0:32:23has agreements with.

0:32:23 > 0:32:28If we look at where we are now with fair and equal access

0:32:28 > 0:32:31to the very large, rich EU market which is nearly half

0:32:31 > 0:32:37of our service and goods exports, plus preferential access to other

0:32:37 > 0:32:41markets which gets us up to about three fifths of our trade,

0:32:41 > 0:32:44if you are going to give that up for the promise of some bilateral

0:32:44 > 0:32:47deals with markets that are much less important to us,

0:32:47 > 0:32:51it is like giving up a three-course meal for a packet of crisps.

0:32:51 > 0:32:59It is just not equivalent and we have to recognise that reality.

0:32:59 > 0:33:01A five-hour pause in the Syrian government's assault

0:33:01 > 0:33:06on Eastern Ghouta has begun.

0:33:06 > 0:33:10It is reportedly being largely observed. The respite was ordered by

0:33:10 > 0:33:14Russia, which said it would be repeated daily to allow civilians to

0:33:14 > 0:33:20leave the besieged Anglais. -- besieged enclave.

0:33:20 > 0:33:23Facebook has funded a pilot programme using its Messenger

0:33:23 > 0:33:24service to try to deradicalise extremists.

0:33:24 > 0:33:26Users posting extreme far-right and Islamist content in the UK

0:33:26 > 0:33:28were identified and contacted in an attempt to

0:33:28 > 0:33:29challenge their views.

0:33:29 > 0:33:32But privacy campaigners have criticised the initiative,

0:33:32 > 0:33:38suggesting the social media giant was straying into surveillance.

0:33:39 > 0:33:45That is the latest. Thank you for your comments, Gemma

0:33:45 > 0:33:48has detected this, "I went to a pupil referral unit from year nine

0:33:48 > 0:33:53to 11 and all it takes is one person to really believe in you for you to

0:33:53 > 0:33:57start believing in yourself. I loved my experience. I went on to

0:33:57 > 0:34:02university and now work with young people who also attends PRUs". Clare

0:34:02 > 0:34:06says, "Brilliant to watch a programme about PRUs, I worked in a

0:34:06 > 0:34:10local one to 15 years and it was the most rewarding, satisfied, stressful

0:34:10 > 0:34:14and inspirational job. The children were fantastic and it was so good to

0:34:14 > 0:34:19be part of their developer and success in moving back into

0:34:19 > 0:34:25mainstream schools". And Adams says, "I chaired the management committee

0:34:25 > 0:34:29of three PRUs, they do terrific work which is often unsung". We will talk

0:34:29 > 0:34:34to some of you right around the country after 10am, who have

0:34:34 > 0:34:38experience of PRUs. We are focusing on the more this week. Time for the

0:34:38 > 0:34:40sport. After their embarrassing defeat in

0:34:40 > 0:34:43the League Cup final, Arsenal legend Ian Wright has said there's no place

0:34:43 > 0:34:47for manager Arsene Wenger to stay in charge of club. Arsene Wenger is

0:34:47 > 0:34:52nearly into his 22nd year in the role but Ian Wright says he is more

0:34:52 > 0:34:56-- mollycoddling the team that has lost half of its matches in 2018. As

0:34:56 > 0:34:59Scotland look to follow up their huge six Nations win over England,

0:34:59 > 0:35:02they could be without key man Ryan Wilson for the rest of the

0:35:02 > 0:35:05tournament if he is punished for making contact with the eye of an

0:35:05 > 0:35:09England player on Saturday. British boxer Curtis Woodhouse says he may

0:35:09 > 0:35:13not fight again following the death of Scott Westgarth after about at

0:35:13 > 0:35:17the weekend. He says it's left questioning the morality of the

0:35:17 > 0:35:21sport. And a time Olympic gold medallist and big Manchester United

0:35:21 > 0:35:24Van Usain Bolt will fulfil a dream in June when he played at Old

0:35:24 > 0:35:28Trafford, captaining a world level in this year's Soccer Aid match

0:35:28 > 0:35:31where he will take on Robbie Williams' England side. More sport

0:35:31 > 0:35:34after 10am. Good morning.

0:35:34 > 0:35:37This programme can reveal that convicted paedophile Barry Bennell

0:35:37 > 0:35:44was sacked as Crewe Alexandra's youth coach days after parents

0:35:44 > 0:35:46confronted him and threatened to call the police

0:35:46 > 0:35:51about his behaviour in 1992.

0:35:51 > 0:35:53That is despite Crewe insisting they knew nothing about his behaviour

0:35:53 > 0:35:55until 1994.

0:35:55 > 0:35:57Our reporter Jim Reed has been investigating.

0:35:57 > 0:36:00Morning, Vic.

0:36:00 > 0:36:03Barry Bennell was convicted of historical offences against young

0:36:03 > 0:36:07boys two weeks ago now and he is currently serving 31 years in prison

0:36:07 > 0:36:09for the offences.

0:36:09 > 0:36:12There are still questions that need to be answered though.

0:36:12 > 0:36:14Not least whether the clubs involved should have done more,

0:36:14 > 0:36:16much more, to stop the abuse.

0:36:16 > 0:36:24The team most closely linked to Bennell is Crewe Alexandra.

0:36:25 > 0:36:28It employed him as a youth coach for seven years until 1992.

0:36:28 > 0:36:31Now we've been speaking exclusively to a former youth team player

0:36:31 > 0:36:33who was there when Bennell left the club.

0:36:33 > 0:36:38Barry Bennell, being driven into court for the last time.

0:36:38 > 0:36:44The 64-year-old was given a 31-year sentence for abusing

0:36:44 > 0:36:46young boys in his care, his fourth jail term

0:36:46 > 0:36:48in three decades.

0:36:48 > 0:36:51How can it be that no one realised something was wrong?

0:36:51 > 0:36:55How is it that no one protected us then?

0:36:55 > 0:36:57Seven of the 12 victims in the most recent case

0:36:57 > 0:36:59were linked to Crewe Alexandra.

0:36:59 > 0:37:02The club has always denied it knew anything about his

0:37:02 > 0:37:05behaviour or the abuse.

0:37:05 > 0:37:09Well, firstly, I remember him being a really good football coach.

0:37:09 > 0:37:15I started in 1989 and he was our coach at the time.

0:37:15 > 0:37:19Now in his 30s, Matt played for Crewe's youth team for a decade.

0:37:19 > 0:37:21We've changed his name and voice because he wants

0:37:21 > 0:37:23to protect his family's privacy.

0:37:23 > 0:37:26He rang my mum and dad and he said, "The boys have done really well

0:37:26 > 0:37:29at training this week so I'd like to give them

0:37:29 > 0:37:32a little bit of a treat.

0:37:32 > 0:37:35So they are going to come round and there's going to be five or six

0:37:35 > 0:37:38who are going to come around the house and stay over".

0:37:38 > 0:37:39Matt did stay over that night.

0:37:39 > 0:37:41He wasn't abused but knows boys who were.

0:37:41 > 0:37:43Then suddenly, he says, with no explanation,

0:37:43 > 0:37:44his youth coach simply vanished.

0:37:44 > 0:37:48We then went back into training as we normally would.

0:37:48 > 0:37:51I think it would have been a Thursday and a new coach came

0:37:51 > 0:37:54in and Barry Bennell had obviously just upped and left.

0:37:54 > 0:37:58Crewe has never said how Bennell left

0:37:58 > 0:38:01the club in 1992, only that it was for footballing reasons.

0:38:01 > 0:38:04This programme understands he was sacked and replaced days

0:38:04 > 0:38:08later by Steve Holland, now England's assistant manager.

0:38:08 > 0:38:11Matt says his mother later told him a group of parents had challenged

0:38:11 > 0:38:14Bennell about his behaviour around young boys.

0:38:14 > 0:38:16There was a group of parents who confronted Barry

0:38:16 > 0:38:20because there were rumours.

0:38:20 > 0:38:24One of the dads in the group had said his son had gone to him

0:38:24 > 0:38:25and he had been touching his son.

0:38:25 > 0:38:27I'm not sure of the exact circumstances behind

0:38:27 > 0:38:30that but they did say they were going to go to the police.

0:38:30 > 0:38:32Shortly after that alleged confrontation, we understand

0:38:32 > 0:38:36Bennell left the country, flying to the USA, where he bought

0:38:36 > 0:38:39and ran a video store near Atlanta.

0:38:39 > 0:38:42It's not known if the parents' concerns were raised with the club

0:38:42 > 0:38:44or then-manager Dario Gradi, who is still director

0:38:44 > 0:38:48of football at Crewe.

0:38:48 > 0:38:51A few months later, in May of that year,

0:38:51 > 0:38:53Matt's parents received this letter from Dario Gradi

0:38:53 > 0:38:55on headed notepaper.

0:38:55 > 0:38:58It said:.

0:39:13 > 0:39:17There's no evidence that letter was suggesting abuse

0:39:17 > 0:39:20by Bennell but it is very clear that by that stage,

0:39:20 > 0:39:22officials at the club did not want their young players associating

0:39:22 > 0:39:24with the coach.

0:39:24 > 0:39:27Even if they didn't know, Crewe as they club have an obligation

0:39:27 > 0:39:30Even if they didn't know, Crewe as a club have an obligation

0:39:30 > 0:39:33to come out and apologise and say, "We were in charge at the time

0:39:33 > 0:39:35and this happened".

0:39:35 > 0:39:38They had a responsibility to protect us at the time and I don't think

0:39:38 > 0:39:39we were protected enough.

0:39:39 > 0:39:43All of this comes after Crewe Alexandra's former managing

0:39:43 > 0:39:47director, Hamilton Smith, told us he raised concerns

0:39:47 > 0:39:50at a board meeting in the late '80s but no real action was taken.

0:39:50 > 0:39:55Everybody involved could have done and should have done a lot more.

0:39:55 > 0:39:57The club declined to comment on the letter

0:39:57 > 0:39:59or the player's account.

0:39:59 > 0:40:04Other officials there have always denied they knew about the abuse

0:40:04 > 0:40:06until after Bennell left the club.

0:40:06 > 0:40:10Just to ask again, were you aware at any point of what he was doing?

0:40:10 > 0:40:11No.

0:40:11 > 0:40:13How do you feel about the fact he was doing those things

0:40:13 > 0:40:15when you were chairman?

0:40:15 > 0:40:18Infuriated.

0:40:18 > 0:40:22In a statement after the latest trial, Crewe said it did not receive

0:40:22 > 0:40:25a single complaint about sexual abuse at the time and if the club

0:40:25 > 0:40:27had any suspicions about Barry Bennell,

0:40:27 > 0:40:35it would have informed the police immediately.

0:40:35 > 0:40:41Last night, Crewe's top officials met fans for the first answer is

0:40:41 > 0:40:47Barry Bennell's conviction.Yes, they hold fans Forum every year at

0:40:47 > 0:40:50Crewe Alexandra, 250 fans with tickets get to meet the manager, the

0:40:50 > 0:40:56chairman, other members of the board and so wanted this -- and so on to

0:40:56 > 0:40:59discuss football and what else is going on at the club. It was held

0:40:59 > 0:41:03last night at Gresty Road, the Crewe ground. We asked to go along but we

0:41:03 > 0:41:07were told no journalists were allowed to attend, it was just for

0:41:07 > 0:41:11the fans. There were reports security on the door had a piece of

0:41:11 > 0:41:15paper with photos of journalists on, and reporters that have worked on

0:41:15 > 0:41:21the case, two apparently deny them entry if they tried to get in or use

0:41:21 > 0:41:25of force name and so on. In the event, though, there were three

0:41:25 > 0:41:29questions last night about Barry Bennell, a man we can show you

0:41:29 > 0:41:34pictures of come here, new pictures of Barry Bennell we have obtained.

0:41:34 > 0:41:38The chairman was asked about the scandal last night and declined to

0:41:38 > 0:41:41answer, he said he can't add any more at the moment because of what

0:41:41 > 0:41:47he said was an ongoing legal process. At one point, the BBC

0:41:47 > 0:41:51commentator who commentates on Crewe games asked the chairman about the

0:41:51 > 0:41:56claims by Hamilton Smith, the managing director, former managing

0:41:56 > 0:42:00director you heard in the report. Again, he said no comment. Most of

0:42:00 > 0:42:06the questions were about football, though, the club currently 18th in

0:42:06 > 0:42:14League 2, the fourth tier of the football Borley, so fans angry about

0:42:14 > 0:42:18the team's performance on the pitch as well.

0:42:18 > 0:42:22So many of you got in touch with us yesterday to talk about pupil

0:42:22 > 0:42:28referral units.We are going to talk to you after 10am. This e-mail says,

0:42:28 > 0:42:33"My youngest son went to a pupil referral unit and I said then, why

0:42:33 > 0:42:37can't all schools teach children the same as you do, here? I thought it

0:42:37 > 0:42:41was very good as they gave children choices on how their behaviour

0:42:41 > 0:42:45impacted on their free time and eventually my son went back into the

0:42:45 > 0:42:48traditional school system"

0:42:48 > 0:42:48eventually my son went back into the traditional school system". One of

0:42:48 > 0:42:56the reasons might be the cost. In some places in England, it costs

0:42:56 > 0:43:00£48,000 to educate one people for one year in a pupil referral unit

0:43:00 > 0:43:08although it is less expensive in other parts of the country.

0:43:08 > 0:43:12Hawkswood, where we were yesterday, takes up to 40 children who have

0:43:12 > 0:43:15been excluded from mainstream education between the ages of four

0:43:15 > 0:43:18and 11. The reason we were there was because we discovered a big rise in

0:43:18 > 0:43:23the numbers of primary age children in England being educated at PRUs,

0:43:23 > 0:43:28up 34% over the last four years. Some other interesting facts for

0:43:28 > 0:43:33you, it costs £4000- £5,000 to educate one people each year in

0:43:33 > 0:43:38mainstream school and in PRUs, it is a lot more as we just said but even

0:43:38 > 0:43:44those costs vary wildly. Kirklees, £48,000 per year, whereas in

0:43:44 > 0:43:49Lancashire, it is £12,000 per year, plus the average length of stay in

0:43:49 > 0:43:53Abbott varies, in Bury, it is 15 weeks before a child reintegrate

0:43:53 > 0:43:57back into their old primary school, Andy Candin in London, it is over

0:43:57 > 0:44:02two years. The aim for every child is to go back to mainstream school.

0:44:02 > 0:44:07Many of you got in touch to talk about your own child your own

0:44:07 > 0:44:13child's expenses at PRUs and we will get in touch later. We get in touch

0:44:13 > 0:44:19later.You have people who care around you who help you, she helps

0:44:19 > 0:44:23most of the children here and they kind of get that vibe that you are

0:44:23 > 0:44:30in a safe environment and it helps you mentally and physically because

0:44:30 > 0:44:37it helps you rent a great into mainstream school.OK.Say me, when

0:44:37 > 0:44:41I used to be in my mainstream school, I used to keep coming out

0:44:41 > 0:44:45and getting excluded and stuff but now I am here and in this special

0:44:45 > 0:44:50School, it gives you extra help and it has re-helped me understand it is

0:44:50 > 0:44:57better to go back and reintegrate. -- it has really helped me.What do

0:44:57 > 0:45:07you think of it, here?It is nice and safe. It has helped me a lot

0:45:07 > 0:45:14from when I first came here, I didn't like it but now I do

0:45:14 > 0:45:19especially they give me help with everything and it is a very

0:45:19 > 0:45:28disciplined school.Jacob, how long have you been here?About a year.

0:45:28 > 0:45:33When I first started here, I was having trouble behaving and I was

0:45:33 > 0:45:41making lots of wrong choices.That is what you used to be like?Yeah,

0:45:41 > 0:45:45but now if there is somebody like annoying me or something, I would

0:45:45 > 0:45:52just ignore them and I would just stay away from them if I know that

0:45:52 > 0:46:00they are going to create trouble or something and if one of my friends

0:46:00 > 0:46:03is trying to tell me to do something wrong or something like that, I

0:46:03 > 0:46:08would ignore him and say no. I know that is a wrong thing and I should

0:46:08 > 0:46:13not do that.That is the kind of thing you teach them?Definitely

0:46:13 > 0:46:19come you are reintegrating, this week is your last week.Yes.You are

0:46:19 > 0:46:24going back to old school?Yes, I've only got today, Friday and Monday is

0:46:24 > 0:46:34my last day.How does thatI am a little anxious-- had is that feel?

0:46:34 > 0:46:40I'm a little anxious but I've come very far and I've worked hard to

0:46:40 > 0:46:42reach this point.

0:46:48 > 0:46:51Children are children and they are so young still and we have to give

0:46:51 > 0:46:56them a chance. This is our future generation and we cannot write them

0:46:56 > 0:47:01off at primary school age. It is not right or fair. We are not saying

0:47:01 > 0:47:05their behaviour choices are acceptable and OK, but we are saying

0:47:05 > 0:47:08they need help and additional support and that is what we do for

0:47:08 > 0:47:13them. Once they have affected change, then they need to have the

0:47:13 > 0:47:17chance to be able to be part of society the same way every other

0:47:17 > 0:47:24child has that chance to do the same thing.In your view is there always

0:47:24 > 0:47:31an explanation for poor behaviour? Yes. There are many reasons. We say

0:47:31 > 0:47:36there is a trigger. Behaviour is communication, said there is always

0:47:36 > 0:47:40a reason why. The reasons may not always be seen as desirable to

0:47:40 > 0:47:45people but there is always a reason. It can be a learning need, it could

0:47:45 > 0:47:49be they are on a spectrum and not yet diagnosed, it could be a

0:47:49 > 0:47:54parental issue, some of that is affecting their home life, there are

0:47:54 > 0:47:58so many different issues that we need to drill down to what is going

0:47:58 > 0:48:01on or has gone on for these children and try to help them and support

0:48:01 > 0:48:08them.No one necessarily said anything to me that you can feel the

0:48:08 > 0:48:15pressure and the eyes staring and him being the odd one out in school,

0:48:15 > 0:48:19the troublemaker. I did not talk to the other parents about it, but I

0:48:19 > 0:48:25always felt the stigma attached to him.Other parents look at you as

0:48:25 > 0:48:31well.As though you are a bad character?Some parents come to you

0:48:31 > 0:48:35and say, your child has done this and stuff like that. It is really

0:48:35 > 0:48:46horrible.Everyone knew Logan. What was he doing? He would throw chairs,

0:48:46 > 0:48:51he would kick, he would lie down on the floor kicking and screaming. He

0:48:51 > 0:48:57had to be taken out of class because of it. He would be very aggressive.

0:48:57 > 0:49:04Why do you think that was?Lack of structure, lack of understanding for

0:49:04 > 0:49:08him. When he was in necessary they said to me, Logan is having

0:49:08 > 0:49:12behavioural problems, is there anything we can do? I said yes, this

0:49:12 > 0:49:18is what we do at home and they listen. But when it came to the next

0:49:18 > 0:49:22school they didn't listen. I can't do that, I have got 30 other

0:49:22 > 0:49:29children to look after.They thought maybe it was us, we were doing

0:49:29 > 0:49:34something wrong. We took him to a specialist, we had him tested, they

0:49:34 > 0:49:40could not find anything wrong. The referral came to hear and my wife

0:49:40 > 0:49:46was adamant we were not going to bring him here.Why?Because of the

0:49:46 > 0:49:49stigma and the feeling of dread that this would be his life and he would

0:49:49 > 0:49:57be coming to a place where he would be long.We will talk more about

0:49:57 > 0:50:01that and some of you around the country after ten o'clock. We will

0:50:01 > 0:50:06bring you the weather forecast, news and sport at ten.

0:50:06 > 0:50:08In 2014, 276 mainly Christian schoolgirls were kidnapped

0:50:08 > 0:50:11from their government school overnight by an Islmaist terror

0:50:11 > 0:50:17group called Boko Haram which means "no to Western Education".

0:50:17 > 0:50:21For a while, their fate at the hands of the militants with a history

0:50:21 > 0:50:24of brutality towards women was unknown, but many

0:50:24 > 0:50:26feared the worst - sold as slaves, raped,

0:50:26 > 0:50:31forced to marry their abductors.

0:50:31 > 0:50:35That mass abduction led to a social-media campaign under

0:50:35 > 0:50:37hashtag #BringBackOurGirls.

0:50:37 > 0:50:41Michelle Obama was among the many famous people who endorsed it.

0:50:41 > 0:50:45Never let that happen again was the message.

0:50:45 > 0:50:49Four years on and another 100 schoolgirls have been kidnapped

0:50:49 > 0:50:53by the same militant group and it's barely causing any ripples.

0:50:53 > 0:51:00Why?

0:51:08 > 0:51:10Bukky Shonibare, who's the founder of Girl Child Africa

0:51:10 > 0:51:14and deputy chairperson of Bring Back our Girls.

0:51:14 > 0:51:18Tell our British audience about you know what has happened to the 100

0:51:18 > 0:51:28girls kidnapped last week.And attack was launched by Boko

0:51:28 > 0:51:31attack was launched by Boko Haram on a technical college in the

0:51:31 > 0:51:36north-eastern part of Nigeria. That attack lasted for some hours and it

0:51:36 > 0:51:42was in the night of February the 19th, 2018. After that attack, the

0:51:42 > 0:51:48next day there were reports released by the local community that several

0:51:48 > 0:51:56of the girls who attended that government school had not been

0:51:56 > 0:52:00accounted for, they were missing. Some were said to have escaped, some

0:52:00 > 0:52:05were said to have run back home, some were said to be in the bushes.

0:52:05 > 0:52:09But as I speak to you the official figure has been put at 110 girls

0:52:09 > 0:52:17from that school who have not been found. The government also came out

0:52:17 > 0:52:25to say that some girls had been found and we were waiting for less

0:52:25 > 0:52:35than 50 or so. Another denial of that said that they had been misled

0:52:35 > 0:52:40by a local intelligence person.

0:52:40 > 0:52:48by a local intelligence person. Now we are still talking about a hundred

0:52:48 > 0:52:52who have most likely been abducted by Boko Haram.What sort of ages are

0:52:52 > 0:53:01we talking about?We are talking about girls from the age of about

0:53:01 > 0:53:07nine, ten, in up until teenage years. We are looking at around 16

0:53:07 > 0:53:14or 17. These are girls from junior secondary school going to senior

0:53:14 > 0:53:19secondary School three and that is the age group for the girls going to

0:53:19 > 0:53:24school in this part of the country. There is such a lack of security in

0:53:24 > 0:53:29some parts of Nigeria that it means of this group, Boko Haram, can

0:53:29 > 0:53:35pretty much do this when they wanted.Exactly. When we look at

0:53:35 > 0:53:43what happened to the Chibok girls almost four years ago, in a few

0:53:43 > 0:53:52days' time it will be about five years, at that time we said to

0:53:52 > 0:53:56ourselves nothing like that had happened before. But it put on the

0:53:56 > 0:54:01table the lack of security in our schools, especially when we look at

0:54:01 > 0:54:10Boko Haram's mandate and ideology that Western education is forbidden.

0:54:10 > 0:54:16That group has always been attacking such targets, girls' schools and

0:54:16 > 0:54:23boys schools. One would expect that we had learned the lessons from the

0:54:23 > 0:54:32Chibok girls issue. There should have been security and certification

0:54:32 > 0:54:36of schools and communities where these schools are situated. But

0:54:36 > 0:54:41again this abduction, this attack shows that schools are not safe

0:54:41 > 0:54:47enough for our children, boys and girls, as well as for teachers,

0:54:47 > 0:54:52particularly in the north-east region.When the 276 girls were

0:54:52 > 0:55:00taken from school in Chibok it caused an international outcry. Some

0:55:00 > 0:55:05were eventually, after time, rescued. White do you think this has

0:55:05 > 0:55:13not caused the same outcry?The Chibok girls issue received global

0:55:13 > 0:55:20attention. Everyone was talking about it. It was almost like the

0:55:20 > 0:55:25coolest thing to do. People carried the placard and wanted to be

0:55:25 > 0:55:30identified with it. The girls' abduction connected the world on

0:55:30 > 0:55:40sheer humanity. Everyone was talking about our girls, we personalised it.

0:55:40 > 0:55:44We perceived that these girls could be my daughter, my sister, my

0:55:44 > 0:55:51cousin. People created that relationship as the basis upon which

0:55:51 > 0:55:55they engaged and advocated for our Chibok girls. There was a

0:55:55 > 0:56:04convergence also of social media outrage where people walked in the

0:56:04 > 0:56:08streets, especially the bring back our girls movement which took place

0:56:08 > 0:56:16throughout the world. But when you now compare that to the abduction of

0:56:16 > 0:56:19these girls, the outrage has not been the same and disappointingly

0:56:19 > 0:56:25so. I think the world is getting used to these disasters. We are

0:56:25 > 0:56:34getting used to the fact that girls are being taken. Our narrative is it

0:56:34 > 0:56:38is not as many as the Chibok girls. We seem to be normalising what is

0:56:38 > 0:56:46bad. We seem to be normalising what is wrong. Maybe our hearts can no

0:56:46 > 0:56:51longer deal with it. Maybe we think it is far of. Maybe we are not

0:56:51 > 0:57:01connected with that level of humanity any longer.

0:57:01 > 0:57:05humanity any longer. But I want the world to mobilise for these girls as

0:57:05 > 0:57:14they did for the Chibok girls.Thank you. The founder of Girl Child

0:57:14 > 0:57:25Africa and the Deputy Chairperson of Bring Back Our Girls.

0:57:25 > 0:57:28We have got some cracking weather pictures being sent in this morning

0:57:28 > 0:57:33from our viewers.

0:57:35 > 0:57:42from our viewers. This is some snow on rooftops in Brighton. You can see

0:57:42 > 0:57:47a bit more lying snow in this one. What has been happening is we have

0:57:47 > 0:57:50had heavy snow coming in across northern England, pushing through

0:57:50 > 0:57:54the Midlands and it is now progressing to Wales and it will

0:57:54 > 0:57:58clear by the time we get to the early part of the afternoon. We have

0:57:58 > 0:58:03some snow showers coming in across South eastern England towards the

0:58:03 > 0:58:10channel showers. If you are under that line you might have as much as

0:58:10 > 0:58:14three centimetres of snow fall, but they are showers and if you are not

0:58:14 > 0:58:19under that line, you might not see the totals I have given you. Away

0:58:19 > 0:58:25from these areas we are looking at a fair bit of sunshine and some

0:58:25 > 0:58:31showers in eastern areas. Wherever you are today it will feel cold.

0:58:31 > 0:58:34Through the evening and overnight we continued the snow showers in the

0:58:34 > 0:58:37South East heading down towards the Channel Islands and later on in the

0:58:37 > 0:58:43night, early morning, it will come into southern Cornwall, Devon and

0:58:43 > 0:58:49possibly Dorsett as well. It will be a cold night, temperatures in places

0:58:49 > 0:58:53where we have got lying snow and in the countryside will be lower than

0:58:53 > 0:58:58this, -8 or -9 potentially. By the end of the night we have got more

0:58:58 > 0:59:03snow in northern and eastern Scotland, Central Scotland and North

0:59:03 > 0:59:06East England. This is where the Met Office has an amber be prepared

0:59:06 > 0:59:11warning. Tomorrow we could have ten centimetres of falling snow in

0:59:11 > 0:59:16addition to what we have already had. For some of us it will be more

0:59:16 > 0:59:21than that. Away from the amber area there will still be snow showers

0:59:21 > 0:59:28around, but they will not be so heavy. We have got snow in northern,

0:59:28 > 0:59:32East, central and southern Scotland and North East England. For the rest

0:59:32 > 0:59:36of us a lot of the showers will drift westwards through the day, so

0:59:36 > 0:59:39brightening up in the south-east, but there will be won or two showers

0:59:39 > 0:59:47and it will be windy. Either temperatures.

0:59:48 > 0:59:52temperatures. It feels cold in itself, but when you add on the wind

0:59:52 > 1:00:00chill, it will feel bitter. -12 across Aberdeen for example. Then as

1:00:00 > 1:00:03we head into Thursday this next system, named by the Portuguese

1:00:03 > 1:00:09weather service as Emma, it will bring snow and strong winds.

1:00:12 > 1:00:17Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:00:17 > 1:00:21Our top story today: snow and bad weather is causing chaos in parts

1:00:21 > 1:00:23of England and Wales with hundreds of trains being cancelled, and many

1:00:23 > 1:00:26schools shutting their doors.

1:00:26 > 1:00:30Plus - this programme can exclusively reveal that Facebook

1:00:30 > 1:00:32has funded a project which saw their Messenger

1:00:32 > 1:00:36system used to try to de-radicalise people.

1:00:36 > 1:00:44I had quite radical views when I was in my teens. I felt voiceless. I

1:00:44 > 1:00:46felt as though there was an injustice that no one was

1:00:46 > 1:00:53addressing. And I can really relate to these young people.We will talk

1:00:53 > 1:00:58about some of the issues raised by the project after 10:30am.

1:00:58 > 1:01:00And after the incredible response to yesterday's programme

1:01:00 > 1:01:02from a pupil referral unit - we'll be hearing your

1:01:02 > 1:01:07experiences of PRUs.

1:01:07 > 1:01:08Good morning.

1:01:08 > 1:01:12Here's Reeta Chakrabarti in the BBC Newsroom

1:01:12 > 1:01:13with a summary of today's news.

1:01:13 > 1:01:16Heavy snowfall is hitting parts of the UK, causing road and rail

1:01:16 > 1:01:19disruption and school closures.

1:01:19 > 1:01:21The Met Office has issued amber warnings for large parts

1:01:21 > 1:01:24of the south east and north east of England.

1:01:24 > 1:01:28Up to 10cm of snow is expected today and as much as 20cm is predicted

1:01:28 > 1:01:30in some parts of eastern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland

1:01:30 > 1:01:31by the end of Wednesday.

1:01:31 > 1:01:35One of the areas affected is Kent, where Robert Hall told us

1:01:35 > 1:01:41there is some disruption on the roads.

1:01:41 > 1:01:45Kent County Council declared what they called a snow emergency

1:01:45 > 1:01:49yesterday. That basically meant they got every available gritter on the

1:01:49 > 1:01:52road and alerted farmers with snowploughs so the country roads

1:01:52 > 1:01:58were covered. Broadly, the region's roads are running but we have had

1:01:58 > 1:02:04difficulties of the M2, the M20, the A249 which is to the north of the

1:02:04 > 1:02:08M20 just to the south of London. There are big hills in that area and

1:02:08 > 1:02:11we had jackknifed lorries in accident and as soon as cars crash

1:02:11 > 1:02:16or lorries get stuck, the gritters cannot come through and it needs the

1:02:16 > 1:02:24action of traffic to make the salt and the great work. -- and the grit.

1:02:24 > 1:02:26Like "giving up a three-course meal for the promise

1:02:26 > 1:02:29of a packet of crisps" - that's the view of the former most

1:02:29 > 1:02:31senior civil servant at the Department for

1:02:31 > 1:02:33International Trade on proposals for Britain to leave

1:02:33 > 1:02:34the EU customs union.

1:02:34 > 1:02:36Sir Martin Donnelly, who left his post last year,

1:02:36 > 1:02:40said 60% of UK trade was either with the EU or the countries the EU

1:02:40 > 1:02:41has agreements with.

1:02:41 > 1:02:44If we look at where we are now with fair and equal access

1:02:44 > 1:02:47to the very large, rich EU market which is nearly half

1:02:47 > 1:02:50of our service and goods exports, plus preferential access to other

1:02:50 > 1:02:53markets which gets us up to about three fifths of our trade,

1:02:53 > 1:02:57if you are going to give that up for the promise of some bilateral

1:02:57 > 1:03:00deals with markets that are much less important to us,

1:03:00 > 1:03:04it is like giving up a three-course meal for a packet of crisps.

1:03:04 > 1:03:12It is just not equivalent and we have to recognise that reality.

1:03:14 > 1:03:17The Syrian government's assault on the rebel held every of Eastern

1:03:17 > 1:03:21Ghouta has come to hold for five hours. The pause was ordered by

1:03:21 > 1:03:25Syria's ally Russia who said it would repeated daily to allow

1:03:25 > 1:03:28civilians to leave the besieged on flavour but no civilians have been

1:03:28 > 1:03:31seen taking advantage of the ceasefire to leave the area and

1:03:31 > 1:03:34there have been claims which have been denied that rebels have shelled

1:03:34 > 1:03:38a humanitarian corridor. -- the besieged enclave.

1:03:38 > 1:03:41This programme has been told that convicted paedophile Barry Bennell

1:03:41 > 1:03:44was sacked as a youth football coach at Crewe Alexandra a short time

1:03:44 > 1:03:46after parents confronted him and threatened to call the police

1:03:46 > 1:03:47about his behaviour.

1:03:47 > 1:03:5364-year-old Bennell was given a 31-year sentence for abusing young

1:03:53 > 1:03:55boys in his care eight days ago.

1:03:55 > 1:03:57Some of the victims were linked to Crewe Alexandra, where Bennell

1:03:57 > 1:04:00was employed for seven years until he left in 1992.

1:04:00 > 1:04:03The club has denied it knew anything about his behaviour

1:04:03 > 1:04:07or the abuse and said he left for footballing reasons.

1:04:07 > 1:04:10The social media giant Facebook has funded a pilot programme

1:04:10 > 1:04:11to try to deradicalise extremists.

1:04:11 > 1:04:13The project was led by a counter-extremism organisation

1:04:13 > 1:04:16who used the Messenger service to challenge the views of users

1:04:16 > 1:04:19posting extreme far-right and Islamist content.

1:04:19 > 1:04:23But privacy campaigners have questioned the programme's

1:04:23 > 1:04:25use of fake profiles and whether Facebook

1:04:25 > 1:04:27should be involved in surveillance work at all.

1:04:27 > 1:04:35That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

1:04:37 > 1:04:40Time for the sport. Good morning. If you are an Arsenal

1:04:40 > 1:04:44fan, you're not having the best week probably, 3-0 defeat to Manchester

1:04:44 > 1:04:48city in the League Cup final to content with and now the same

1:04:48 > 1:04:50opponents to face, Manchester City in a Premier League on Thursday

1:04:50 > 1:04:54night. Now club great Ian White has urged manager Arsene Wenger to step

1:04:54 > 1:04:58down at the end of the season, saying he cannot make a case for him

1:04:58 > 1:05:02staying in. -- Ian Wright. Ian Wright also feels the owner Stan

1:05:02 > 1:05:06Kroenke has lost interest and a new two-year deal given to Arsene Wenger

1:05:06 > 1:05:11last summer was a mistake.I want Arsenal to start to challenge again,

1:05:11 > 1:05:15start signing players that make us exciting again, someone who's going

1:05:15 > 1:05:18to come in and around the Arsenal group who is going to lay down the

1:05:18 > 1:05:23law to people and a new manager, whoever that is going to be, and the

1:05:23 > 1:05:27players who were now on easy street, literally. A few of the mark owning

1:05:27 > 1:05:31easy Street and renting a property is on it! It's going to take Arsenal

1:05:31 > 1:05:35a few years to get back into that because everybody is progressing

1:05:35 > 1:05:39right now, they are moving forward, all of them.A drug testing

1:05:39 > 1:05:43programme in the English but Borlee is unacceptable according to an

1:05:43 > 1:05:46expert. At least a quarter of players were not tested last season

1:05:46 > 1:05:50which Professor Ivan Waddington says is not good enough. The FA says it

1:05:50 > 1:05:54runs one of the most comprehensive national anti-doping programmes in

1:05:54 > 1:05:56world sport and testing has increased with more than 5000 said

1:05:56 > 1:06:02to be carried out in the Premier League this season. Boxer Curtis

1:06:02 > 1:06:05Woodhouse is considering his future in the sport after the death of

1:06:05 > 1:06:09Scott Westgarth. Woodhouse was due to top the bill in Doncaster which

1:06:09 > 1:06:13included the fight where Scott Westgarth suffered his fatal injury.

1:06:13 > 1:06:16Woodhouse says it makes him question whether the profession or the sport

1:06:16 > 1:06:23are justifiable. Scotland could be without a key man as they look to

1:06:23 > 1:06:28follow up their huge Six Nations win over England. Ryan Wilson's

1:06:28 > 1:06:31tournament could be over if he is found guilty of making contact with

1:06:31 > 1:06:36the eye of an opponent. The incident happened in the historic Calcutta

1:06:36 > 1:06:39Cup victory as he tangled with Nathan Hughes at Murrayfield. Wilson

1:06:39 > 1:06:43appears before the disciplinary committee tomorrow. A two-time

1:06:43 > 1:06:46Olympic gold medallist Usain Bolt will fulfil a dream in June when he

1:06:46 > 1:06:50plays football at Old Trafford. He is a huge Manchester United fan and

1:06:50 > 1:06:54has made no secret of the fact he would love to be a professional

1:06:54 > 1:06:58player. His first step will be as captain of the world 11 in the

1:06:58 > 1:07:01Soccer Aid match where he will take on Robbie Williams' England side.

1:07:01 > 1:07:05The teams will feature stars and footballing legends and Usain Bolt

1:07:05 > 1:07:10says he has a special celebration plans for when he scores, not if,

1:07:10 > 1:07:14he's all we've been confident! That is all the sport for now. More later

1:07:14 > 1:07:17in the hour. -- always been confident.

1:07:17 > 1:07:19We had such an incredible response from you to our

1:07:19 > 1:07:24programme live from a pupil referral unit yesterday.

1:07:24 > 1:07:27Hawkswood Primary Pupil Referral Unit in North-East

1:07:27 > 1:07:30London takes up to 40 children who've been excluded

1:07:30 > 1:07:33from mainstream education between the ages of 4 and 11.

1:07:33 > 1:07:36The reason we were there was because we've discovered a big

1:07:36 > 1:07:40rise in the numbers of primary school aged children in England

1:07:40 > 1:07:44being educated at PRUs - it's up 34% over the last four years.

1:07:44 > 1:07:48Many of you got in touch to talk about your own child's

1:07:48 > 1:07:53experiences at a PRU - and we'll hear from you in a moment.

1:07:53 > 1:07:55All, week we're looking at the work of PRUs.

1:07:55 > 1:08:00While exclusion impacts on the children first and foremost,

1:08:00 > 1:08:03it affects parents too, of course.

1:08:03 > 1:08:05Two of those parents we met, Kerri Wooden and Shelley Porter,

1:08:05 > 1:08:08talked to us at length about the emotions they feel,

1:08:08 > 1:08:15from guilt and shame, to pride.

1:08:15 > 1:08:19I'm Shelley, I have four children.

1:08:19 > 1:08:22My eldest is at university,

1:08:22 > 1:08:25I've got six-year-old twins and then I have Cruz.

1:08:25 > 1:08:27I could see from an early age that he was going

1:08:27 > 1:08:30to struggle at school.

1:08:30 > 1:08:33He was not making friends and any friends that tried to get close,

1:08:33 > 1:08:37Cruz would bully, push away.

1:08:37 > 1:08:42He was just different.

1:08:42 > 1:08:43My name is Kerri.

1:08:43 > 1:08:46I've got two children.

1:08:46 > 1:08:49My eldest one is 11, his name is Jamie and I've got

1:08:49 > 1:08:50Logan, who is seven.

1:08:50 > 1:08:55The best bit about being seven is...

1:08:55 > 1:09:00Seeing your dad and going swimming with him like I did and...

1:09:00 > 1:09:04Getting your own way, almost.

1:09:04 > 1:09:06Logan's journey has been...

1:09:06 > 1:09:09Horrendous, horrific.

1:09:09 > 1:09:12He's had a terrible time.

1:09:12 > 1:09:14Really, really bad time, told constantly that he's weird

1:09:14 > 1:09:17and that he's different.

1:09:24 > 1:09:26What kind of worries?

1:09:26 > 1:09:30Just lots of worries.

1:09:30 > 1:09:34People being accepting of him, how will he cope as he gets older?

1:09:34 > 1:09:37Would he have friends? Would he get a job?

1:09:37 > 1:09:41Would he be able to conform in society, in the big, wide world?

1:09:41 > 1:09:44Just the normal things that any parent wants for their kid.

1:09:44 > 1:09:47Is he going to be able to do that?

1:09:50 > 1:09:55If anything happens to me, what will happen with Logan?

1:09:55 > 1:09:58How would anyone else be able to cope with him and deal with him

1:09:58 > 1:10:03and be able to see the smaller signs and put him as their priority?

1:10:03 > 1:10:07Because even though I am lucky enough to have a couple of people

1:10:07 > 1:10:09in my life that do see them smaller signs, that's not

1:10:09 > 1:10:17the love of a mother.

1:10:17 > 1:10:20He has broken my heart many times with, "Why can't

1:10:20 > 1:10:22I have friends over?

1:10:22 > 1:10:27Why wasn't I invited to the party?"

1:10:27 > 1:10:30He said to me, "I know that I'm weird, Mummy,

1:10:30 > 1:10:31but I can't help it.

1:10:31 > 1:10:34It's just who I am".

1:10:34 > 1:10:36And that's when that, kind of like...

1:10:36 > 1:10:39Oh, it hurt, you know?

1:10:39 > 1:10:43Because he was only five at the time and I just kind of said

1:10:43 > 1:10:44to him, "Everybody's weird.

1:10:44 > 1:10:46Everybody's weird in their own little way.

1:10:46 > 1:10:49You're just you".

1:10:49 > 1:10:54Cruz has made life really difficult, not just for me but for himself

1:10:54 > 1:10:57and for the whole family.

1:10:57 > 1:11:00You try to do everything you can to appease him but you often find

1:11:00 > 1:11:03that nothing is enough.

1:11:03 > 1:11:08He almost boycotts any kind of fun by ending any fun day out with some

1:11:08 > 1:11:12kind of outburst or fight with his brothers and sisters.

1:11:12 > 1:11:20Sometimes he can be nice but sometimes he can be not nice.

1:11:21 > 1:11:26Yeah.

1:11:26 > 1:11:28Yeah, he can be like that, you know.

1:11:28 > 1:11:33Yeah.

1:11:33 > 1:11:41I remember once looking back on these and seeing

1:11:41 > 1:11:43the difference in the way Logan had been before

1:11:43 > 1:11:45he started school, how much more outgoing

1:11:45 > 1:11:47he was and how happy he was and relaxed.

1:11:47 > 1:11:50He's been given a diagnosis for anxiety but no diagnosis of autism.

1:11:50 > 1:11:54People from the outside, they just see the naughty behaviour

1:11:54 > 1:11:59so that is scary as well because then, they are not seeing

1:11:59 > 1:12:02the illness that comes along with it when he has been ill,

1:12:02 > 1:12:05like literally, physically making himself sick, wetting the bed,

1:12:05 > 1:12:09needing to go to the toilet before he leaves the house, alopecia,

1:12:09 > 1:12:13blood spots all over his face, he will get broken capillaries.

1:12:13 > 1:12:16There are so many different things and so many different sides to it

1:12:16 > 1:12:24all but people don't understand that and they don't see that.

1:12:24 > 1:12:27Yeah, I did feel ashamed because there were incidents

1:12:27 > 1:12:31where Cruz was hitting other children at school or maybe

1:12:31 > 1:12:34breaking their pencil, ripping up some work and I felt that

1:12:34 > 1:12:39parents would be looking at me when I was taking him to school,

1:12:39 > 1:12:41you know, that is Cruz's mum, Cruz did it.

1:12:41 > 1:12:44You are always being judged.

1:12:46 > 1:12:48For his behaviour, for him hiding under a table instead of playing

1:12:48 > 1:12:53with the other kids, for him not wanting to hear noise

1:12:53 > 1:12:56because he might shout at another child if they are too much for him,

1:12:56 > 1:12:59you know, because he does not want to play with certain children

1:12:59 > 1:13:03because they might have a bit of dirt on their shirt.

1:13:03 > 1:13:05You know, people, family members would be thinking that I'm

1:13:05 > 1:13:07behaving like a weak parent, you know.

1:13:07 > 1:13:11He needs to be disciplined, he needs to be told.

1:13:11 > 1:13:14It gives the stigma of being some kind of chavvy parent,

1:13:14 > 1:13:18that's incapable of being able to discipline their job properly.

1:13:18 > 1:13:21But you could not discipline Cruz the same way as you would

1:13:21 > 1:13:24discipline another child.

1:13:24 > 1:13:26It did not work.

1:13:26 > 1:13:29Because of the stigma that is around everything, we end up trying

1:13:29 > 1:13:36to push our children to be as mainstream as possible.

1:13:40 > 1:13:41Obviously, I love Cruz.

1:13:41 > 1:13:43He's my boy.

1:13:43 > 1:13:45My son.

1:13:45 > 1:13:49But you want everyone else to love him and embrace him and when he's...

1:13:49 > 1:13:55His behaviour is not very likeable, it is hard to accept that your child

1:13:55 > 1:13:59is not actually that lovable.

1:13:59 > 1:14:02So I used to say, like, I love him but how the hell

1:14:02 > 1:14:10is anyone else going to love him or even like him?

1:14:15 > 1:14:23Kilt, which part?I did have a lot of I suppose guilt that I was

1:14:23 > 1:14:26letting him down, just because I did not know what to do but I never felt

1:14:26 > 1:14:32that I wasn't giving him everything I could.For me, my guilt is not

1:14:32 > 1:14:35trusting my own judgment and listening to other people. What do

1:14:35 > 1:14:41you want to drink? Because I'd be like, "There's something wrong,

1:14:41 > 1:14:45there's something wrong". Everyone would be like, "No, he's just being

1:14:45 > 1:14:51spoiled, he should do this or that". Cruz comes from a very loving,

1:14:51 > 1:14:54stable family, although I am not with his dad any more, you know, I

1:14:54 > 1:14:58don't want people to think that it could be the reason why, you know,

1:14:58 > 1:15:05he behaves like this.

1:15:05 > 1:15:10Imai hairdresser so whilst I was working, I would be getting phone

1:15:10 > 1:15:15calls to pick Logan up.He needs to go home, we can't deal with him

1:15:15 > 1:15:20here, he has smashed up the class and he's hiding under the desk.He's

1:15:20 > 1:15:23got to be excluded, so I were dead of having to have time off work. I

1:15:23 > 1:15:28had to leave and if I've got a client, they've got bleach on their

1:15:28 > 1:15:33hair or, you know, product, that can cause a lot of complications.I gave

1:15:33 > 1:15:37up my job about eight months ago. I could not hold down a full-time job

1:15:37 > 1:15:43and leave every other day to come and collect him from school.I lost

1:15:43 > 1:15:49my job in February 2017 so I've not been back to work since then. It's

1:15:49 > 1:15:51Catch-22, isn't it? If you're working, you're not spending enough

1:15:51 > 1:15:55time with your children and if you are not working, you are on benefits

1:15:55 > 1:16:00and URS grandeur. -- you are a scrounger.

1:16:06 > 1:16:15I felt very isolated as a parent. I didn't know what to say.It leaves

1:16:15 > 1:16:17you feeling extremely isolated and alone because you have constantly

1:16:17 > 1:16:22got people questioning you. And you have constantly got people

1:16:22 > 1:16:30questioning and you are fighting and defending all the time.

1:16:31 > 1:16:36No one gets to know your child, so why would they get to know me?I am

1:16:36 > 1:16:42alone in this. I have not got a partner to lean on, I literally my

1:16:42 > 1:16:51own.

1:16:51 > 1:17:00own.I went down to see the PRU and as soon as I walked through the door

1:17:00 > 1:17:06I thought, he has to come here. I literally broke down. They said, we

1:17:06 > 1:17:16will help you.

1:17:21 > 1:17:33Quite a lot. I think the reason I am getting emotional is because of the

1:17:33 > 1:17:38way they wanted to help me. Mainstream school had basically

1:17:38 > 1:17:46given up hope. My family were giving up hope and this gave me that hope

1:17:46 > 1:17:52back and it was like a rush of emotion like, thank you. Thank you.

1:17:52 > 1:17:58It was good, really good.I was so reluctant to send him there in the

1:17:58 > 1:18:02first place because they do restraining technique.The teacher

1:18:02 > 1:18:09says tough love.He has done so well, it is a complete turnaround.

1:18:09 > 1:18:13He never liked learning. He was too scared to learn because he was

1:18:13 > 1:18:20scared of getting things wrong. Now you get, it is OK, mummy, nothing is

1:18:20 > 1:18:24impossible, just give it another try.The word impossible does not

1:18:24 > 1:18:34exist.And then I met Miss Milligan who literally changed my world. And

1:18:34 > 1:18:42his world.And he loves reading and spelling out words to you, he is

1:18:42 > 1:18:47doing so well. It is like a complete turnaround. It gives me a lot of

1:18:47 > 1:18:54hope.I have hope, I feel happier, he is happier.I am going to be an

1:18:54 > 1:18:59inventor. I am going to make stairs so if you fall down them it will not

1:18:59 > 1:19:09hurt. I am putting cotton wool in stairs.We just 100% feel so much

1:19:09 > 1:19:18more positive.

1:19:18 > 1:19:22more positive. His time at the one was up just before Christmas, so

1:19:22 > 1:19:28they had little graduations, which was lovely. They showcased what he

1:19:28 > 1:19:33had done and how far he had come since he had been at the PRU.We are

1:19:33 > 1:19:39so proud of you.It is amazing to see a child come through hardships

1:19:39 > 1:19:49that a lot of adults struggle with. I am so proud of him. It makes my

1:19:49 > 1:19:54chest feel like he is going to burst, he has done so well.It was

1:19:54 > 1:19:59nice to see him relax and put on his graduation hat and just be proud of

1:19:59 > 1:20:06himself. That makes me proud.

1:20:06 > 1:20:09That makes me proud.

1:20:09 > 1:20:12So many of you get in touch with us yesterday and wanted

1:20:12 > 1:20:15to share your own story with us.

1:20:15 > 1:20:17With us is a former PRU student Abigail Schultz.

1:20:17 > 1:20:21Also with us is Emma Hopkins, a mother whose son was at a PRU

1:20:21 > 1:20:28between 2012 and 2014.

1:20:28 > 1:20:32Gemma spent two years in a PRU and now acts as a mentor.

1:20:32 > 1:20:35Gemma spent two years in a PRU and now acts as a mentor.

1:20:35 > 1:20:38We also have Helenn El Baze - her eight-year-old son is currently

1:20:38 > 1:20:41a student at Hakswood PRU and is due to go back into mainstream

1:20:41 > 1:20:43education during the spring.

1:20:43 > 1:20:48Welcome, thank you for coming on the programme. Emma in Blackpool, I am

1:20:48 > 1:20:53going to start with you if I may. Your daughter has spent time in a

1:20:53 > 1:21:01PRU. Tell us why.She was bullied at school and got school anxiety. She

1:21:01 > 1:21:06was 12 and refused to go to school in January 2000 and 15. Initially

1:21:06 > 1:21:14the school sent work to home for her to do and in April 2015 she started

1:21:14 > 1:21:23one-to-one, and our day at the PRU doing English, maths and science.

1:21:23 > 1:21:27From September 2015 she started attending the group sessions two

1:21:27 > 1:21:36hours a day and by December she was full-time at the PRU. In February

1:21:36 > 1:21:402016 she had to choose options for GCSEs and she decided she wanted to

1:21:40 > 1:21:45go back to high school. She wanted to go to university and at the PRU

1:21:45 > 1:21:50you could only do five GCSEs. But it helped improve her confidence, it

1:21:50 > 1:21:56helped her a lot.That is interesting what Emma is saying. It

1:21:56 > 1:22:00is not always because of behavioural problems that you end up going to a

1:22:00 > 1:22:06pupil referral unit. Abby, you went to one for health reasons. You were

1:22:06 > 1:22:10anxious and self harming and it was too much for you to go to your

1:22:10 > 1:22:19secondary school.I could not cope with it like Emma's.. I had a school

1:22:19 > 1:22:23phobia and my diagnosis was social anxiety and depression. I was

1:22:23 > 1:22:30getting help for that outside of school with therapists and mental

1:22:30 > 1:22:35health services. I was lucky it got picked up by teachers at school. Not

1:22:35 > 1:22:41all teachers are understanding, but my parents recognised the signs that

1:22:41 > 1:22:46I was not coping at school.What difference did it make you being in

1:22:46 > 1:22:51a pupil referral unit.The classes were smaller, so I did not feel so

1:22:51 > 1:22:58anxious going to class.How many were there?Attendance was up and

1:22:58 > 1:23:04down, but there were about nine in my class. I was able to do my GCSEs

1:23:04 > 1:23:09there which I probably would not have been able to do if I was in

1:23:09 > 1:23:17mainstream, or I would not have done as well as I did.What did you get?

1:23:17 > 1:23:24Six Eights and Bes.Ie Adamant that would not have happened if you had

1:23:24 > 1:23:27stayed at secondary school?I would not have done so well because the

1:23:27 > 1:23:33school helped me personally as an individual. In mainstream school

1:23:33 > 1:23:38they have got a lot of children in the class and it is difficult to

1:23:38 > 1:23:43give help to everyone individually so the quieter ones get missed out.

1:23:43 > 1:23:49Their problems are not always recognise. They are not always

1:23:49 > 1:23:54tutored us individually perhaps some of the louder ones if that makes

1:23:54 > 1:24:02sense. The louder ones might excel more and I was quite quiet and I

1:24:02 > 1:24:06found going to the pupil referral unit with smaller classes allowed me

1:24:06 > 1:24:15to find my voice more. I was encouraged through the tutors there.

1:24:15 > 1:24:20I can see Helen standing over there, she has just arrived. Thank you for

1:24:20 > 1:24:29getting here. Nice to meet you. Take a seat. Tell us about your child,

1:24:29 > 1:24:33Clem, and he started at Hawks would where we were yesterday just last

1:24:33 > 1:24:40month. He is eight, why is he there? He is a very smart boy, and I am not

1:24:40 > 1:24:46saying that because he is my child. I would say he is very clever and

1:24:46 > 1:24:53capable. He was not settling in in his classroom and it was just in the

1:24:53 > 1:25:01classroom and at school.There is a picture of him there.At home and

1:25:01 > 1:25:06everywhere else outside of school he is your average child. He responds

1:25:06 > 1:25:15to things normally, but at school he would get frustrated by anything.

1:25:15 > 1:25:22Like what?Somebody would pick up a pen that he particularly wanted and

1:25:22 > 1:25:27that would be a trigger. He would be in the school hall and he would

1:25:27 > 1:25:33smell something he didn't like and that would be a trigger.Like what?

1:25:33 > 1:25:37He would have a panic attack, an anxiety attack. I have seen it once

1:25:37 > 1:25:46and it was horrible. It was horrible to see my child in that way, so

1:25:46 > 1:25:52distressed. I could not calm him down. He was just screaming and he

1:25:52 > 1:25:58was not even looking at me. I could not get eye contact. I had to let

1:25:58 > 1:26:01him calm himself down and took a long time and this was happening at

1:26:01 > 1:26:08school on a daily basis.Was he being suspended regularly?Yes,

1:26:08 > 1:26:15weakly. From this September just gone last year was when it really

1:26:15 > 1:26:20started getting bad and it felt like weakly. My phone would ring up work

1:26:20 > 1:26:25and all my colleagues would say, is it school again? We all had anxiety,

1:26:25 > 1:26:30not just me, it was everyone. It was horrible to know that he was at

1:26:30 > 1:26:34school so distressed. Then I felt bad for the teachers, then I felt

1:26:34 > 1:26:39guilty at work that I was leaving all the time, it is such a vicious

1:26:39 > 1:26:44circle.You think he might have OCD but it has not been diagnosed.He

1:26:44 > 1:26:48has not been diagnosed with anything, but some days I can see

1:26:48 > 1:26:53the traits of OCD. Some days I concede traits of other things. ADHD

1:26:53 > 1:27:05may be sometimes, I don't know. But he is capable.I didn't mean to

1:27:05 > 1:27:09interrupt, but how would you say he is after a month or so after a pupil

1:27:09 > 1:27:16referral unit?It is amazing work that they have done with him. Like I

1:27:16 > 1:27:21heard you saying, they treat him as an individual. That is the main

1:27:21 > 1:27:26thing. I agree, I understand you cannot do that as well in a class of

1:27:26 > 1:27:3230 children, but I am a single parent and it is just me and him at

1:27:32 > 1:27:36home and we have had adult conversation and he is very involved

1:27:36 > 1:27:43in the House and everything. He is very able to articulate himself, so

1:27:43 > 1:27:49maybe in a class of 30 he doesn't feel like he gets the attention. He

1:27:49 > 1:27:54is not spoiled and I am straight, but he does not maybe get the

1:27:54 > 1:28:02attention that he wants.Let me bring in another Emma who has got in

1:28:02 > 1:28:10touch. Hello. Your son was in a PRU between 2012 in 2014. How did he get

1:28:10 > 1:28:15on?The first time he was there really well. He went there for a

1:28:15 > 1:28:20couple of days a week. He had a placement with his mainstream

1:28:20 > 1:28:26school. The days he was at

1:28:28 > 1:28:32school. The days he was at the PRU was fine, but mainstream was

1:28:32 > 1:28:35unbearable. They had brought the PRU in because the wanted respite and

1:28:35 > 1:28:40that was how debuted. To be honest it was respite for me as well

1:28:40 > 1:28:45because I did not have the school on the phone every five minutes.Do you

1:28:45 > 1:28:50think generally people have the wrong idea about what referral units

1:28:50 > 1:28:58are alike in reality?I think they do. I went to one myself in my

1:28:58 > 1:29:01secondary education and it was misunderstood then and it is still

1:29:01 > 1:29:05misunderstood now. There are a lot of assumptions made about parenting.

1:29:05 > 1:29:11Like what? There is an assumption there is no discipline. I was very

1:29:11 > 1:29:20young mother and it was felt a parental issue.You were a bad

1:29:20 > 1:29:23parent M yes, and not just in education, that was the assumption

1:29:23 > 1:29:31across the board. Meaning relatives and friends?Lesson from them, but

1:29:31 > 1:29:35from the medical profession, the mental health teams involved. There

1:29:35 > 1:29:41was an assumption made because he was academically able there is an

1:29:41 > 1:29:44assumed capacity that kids who are academically able are able to choose

1:29:44 > 1:29:52their behaviour. PRUs are pretty red as units were children cannot behave

1:29:52 > 1:29:59themselves and in reality it is far from that.Hello, Gemma. You spent

1:29:59 > 1:30:03two years in a PRU and now act as a mentor to students. They are

1:30:03 > 1:30:11related. Tell us why.The reason I started mentoring young people was

1:30:11 > 1:30:16because my experience in the PRU is it to one person to believe in me to

1:30:16 > 1:30:24change my outlook on life. Before I went I felt very let down, I felt

1:30:24 > 1:30:28nobody understood me, I suffered from anxiety and depression and my

1:30:28 > 1:30:33school was not very well equipped to deal with that. When I went to the

1:30:33 > 1:30:38PRU I was treated as an individual is mentioned by previous ladies. I

1:30:38 > 1:30:43was treated fairly, I was understood, people took time to find

1:30:43 > 1:30:48out how to calm me down. I work with five different young people at the

1:30:48 > 1:30:52moment and they are all very individual. It takes different ways

1:30:52 > 1:30:57to calm each of them down. It means you have to get to know people. In

1:30:57 > 1:31:03the PRU it gave me time to understand where I wanted to go in

1:31:03 > 1:31:05life and I ended up going to university to study youth and

1:31:05 > 1:31:10community work which allowed me to go into mentoring now.What do you

1:31:10 > 1:31:16say to those people who say it costs much more to educate people in a

1:31:16 > 1:31:20pupil referral unit, the classes are small, there is one on one time

1:31:20 > 1:31:25spent between a teacher and a child, it costs a lot more, what do you say

1:31:25 > 1:31:30to those people who say why should the children who play up or have a

1:31:30 > 1:31:35tantrum or who caused a scene or who tipped their desks over get more

1:31:35 > 1:31:41money spent on them through education and a good kids?

1:31:41 > 1:31:45It's sad because when I started working in the PRU, I realised what

1:31:45 > 1:31:49I was to my school and it was all about money. My school had to invest

1:31:49 > 1:31:54the money in me and when I went back recently with my daughter, for her

1:31:54 > 1:32:01school place, I told them I had gone to university, I graduated really

1:32:01 > 1:32:05well, I have done very well for me and my children, I've got a very

1:32:05 > 1:32:09good job, they were very proud of me so I assumed they believed it was

1:32:09 > 1:32:14money well spent. I know for a lot of young people, they feel let down

1:32:14 > 1:32:18by the system and I don't think they should be seen as money and money

1:32:18 > 1:32:23should stop them from getting into things. The budget cuts at the

1:32:23 > 1:32:27moment to young people and youth services after-school Ahronoth. You

1:32:27 > 1:32:33need to keep them in education. -- after-school R and R. Two pupils I

1:32:33 > 1:32:36am working with have not got a school place for five months. It's

1:32:36 > 1:32:39not OK. We need to get these children into school and money

1:32:39 > 1:32:44should not stop that at all.Talking of money, and incredible fact I

1:32:44 > 1:32:47mentioned a couple of times yesterday and I will mention again,

1:32:47 > 1:32:51one charity has worked outcome of the 6500 pupils who were permanently

1:32:51 > 1:32:56excluded from schools in England last year, they have worked out they

1:32:56 > 1:33:04will end up potentially costing the country £2.1 billion in extra

1:33:04 > 1:33:07education, health costs, welfare, mental health costs, criminal

1:33:07 > 1:33:13justice system. You know, the link is extraordinary, really. Let me

1:33:13 > 1:33:22read some messages from people around the country. This is from

1:33:22 > 1:33:25Judy, "I want to commend your team for the wonderful insight into what

1:33:25 > 1:33:30these schools can offer to children that for some reason do not fit into

1:33:30 > 1:33:33mainstream schools. My son attended a PRU in year ten which was several

1:33:33 > 1:33:37years ago now and they guided my son through a difficult time and he has

1:33:37 > 1:33:41never dwelt on the time negatively. Regular reports on his progress and

1:33:41 > 1:33:45constant feedback was always available and positive experience

1:33:45 > 1:33:49now looking back". Laura said, "Thank you for bringing this issue

1:33:49 > 1:33:52tonight, -- delight, I'm in a similar situation with my

1:33:52 > 1:33:57six-year-old and I can identify the challenges the other mothers are

1:33:57 > 1:34:00discussing. They are brave to do that so publicly and I thank them

1:34:00 > 1:34:04for sharing their stories". Sue says, "Watching a programme, my

1:34:04 > 1:34:08heart goes out to the two mothers who have boys with profound

1:34:08 > 1:34:10behavioural problems, I can't imagine the sense of relief at

1:34:10 > 1:34:15finding support their sons". Julie says, "The mothers on your programme

1:34:15 > 1:34:19remind me of the despair I went through when miles distant --

1:34:19 > 1:34:22artistic son was excluded from mainstream primary because to the

1:34:22 > 1:34:28school he was a massive bundle of problems but to the fantastic

1:34:28 > 1:34:32special school we got into, he was a bright kid with autism". "My Husband

1:34:32 > 1:34:34worked in a PRU in Wembley and was so upset when he left he cried. The

1:34:34 > 1:34:38teenagers love Tim and shame it had to merge with another local PRU and

1:34:38 > 1:34:45see job cuts. -- loved him. " In terms of the costs, the government

1:34:45 > 1:34:48says alternative provision academies, free skills and pupil

1:34:48 > 1:34:51referral units receive a base funding of £10,000 per place from

1:34:51 > 1:34:54the high needs budget and then receive top up payments from the

1:34:54 > 1:35:00local authority. That is true. Do you think it was right to shine a

1:35:00 > 1:35:05light on what pupil referral units do? As it made a difference to you?

1:35:05 > 1:35:09I think it is good to shine a light on it, for people to understand it

1:35:09 > 1:35:17is not a place for bad children. It really isn't. I mean, talking about

1:35:17 > 1:35:25the money aspect of it, if you had a health care need, for example, the

1:35:25 > 1:35:34NHS would support you and somebody might not say, "Oh, well, I was

1:35:34 > 1:35:37until my whole life so why should you be allowed to use my taxpayers

1:35:37 > 1:35:45money when you are ill?" It is the same kind of situation. Like Cruz's

1:35:45 > 1:35:51mon said, she has other children who are or have been in normal,

1:35:51 > 1:35:53mainstream schools. It is not something you want for your child.

1:35:53 > 1:35:57It is not like I have picked for my son to have these behaviour

1:35:57 > 1:36:01problems. It is something that has happened and I'm very grateful that

1:36:01 > 1:36:04the service is there to help them because I think they are helping

1:36:04 > 1:36:11him. I mean, he's only been there a month and a half and a week ago, he

1:36:11 > 1:36:14said to me, "I'd really like to go back to my mainstream school, I feel

1:36:14 > 1:36:18like I am making much better choices and I get on really well there".

1:36:18 > 1:36:24Does the fact of hearing him say it. It must make your heart burst. Grid

1:36:24 > 1:36:28rack are literally come he just came out with it, it was amazing. Thank

1:36:28 > 1:36:37you for joining us. And good luck to all of you.

1:36:37 > 1:36:41all of you. Well done for getting here on time as well!

1:36:41 > 1:36:44Time for the latest news - here's Reeta Chakrabarti.

1:36:44 > 1:36:46Heavy snowfall is hitting parts of the UK, causing road and rail

1:36:46 > 1:36:48disruption and school closures.

1:36:48 > 1:36:50The Met Office has issued amber warnings for large parts

1:36:50 > 1:36:52of the south east and north east of England.

1:36:52 > 1:36:56Up to 10cm of snow is expected today and as much as 20cm is predicted

1:36:56 > 1:36:59in some parts of eastern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland

1:36:59 > 1:37:07by the end of Wednesday.

1:37:07 > 1:37:11Like "giving up a three-course meal

1:37:11 > 1:37:13for the promise of a packet of crisps".

1:37:13 > 1:37:15That's the view of the former most senior civil

1:37:15 > 1:37:17servant at the Department for International Trade on proposals

1:37:17 > 1:37:21for Britain to leave the EU customs union.

1:37:21 > 1:37:23Sir Martin Donnelly, who left his post last year,

1:37:23 > 1:37:27said 60% of UK trade was either with the EU or the countries the EU

1:37:27 > 1:37:28has agreements with.

1:37:28 > 1:37:31If you look at where we are now, with fair and equal access

1:37:31 > 1:37:34to the very large, rich EU market which is nearly half

1:37:34 > 1:37:38of our service and goods exports, plus preferential access to other

1:37:38 > 1:37:41markets, which gets us up to about three fifths of trade,

1:37:41 > 1:37:45if you are going to give that up for the promise of some bilateral

1:37:45 > 1:37:49deals with markets that are much less important to us,

1:37:49 > 1:37:51well, it's like giving up a three-course meal

1:37:51 > 1:37:52for a packet of crisps.

1:37:52 > 1:37:55It is just not equivalent and we have to recognise

1:37:55 > 1:38:03that reality before we take this decision.

1:38:04 > 1:38:07There's increasing pressure on the five-hour truce being observed in

1:38:07 > 1:38:14the searing enclave -- Syrian enclave is in good. There have been

1:38:14 > 1:38:21reports of shelling and as Elizabeth. Russia ordered the pores

1:38:21 > 1:38:24which would allow humanitarian aid in and people to leave. The United

1:38:24 > 1:38:27Nations say people need to be evacuated out of the area but there

1:38:27 > 1:38:30is no sign it is happening soon.

1:38:30 > 1:38:33At least three people have died in a house fire

1:38:33 > 1:38:34in County Fermanagh, the Police Service of

1:38:34 > 1:38:35Northern Ireland have said.

1:38:35 > 1:38:38Emergency services remain at the scene at the property in Derrylin.

1:38:38 > 1:38:43Police are working to establish the cause of the fire.

1:38:43 > 1:38:47This programme has been told that convicted paedophile Barry Bennell

1:38:47 > 1:38:50was sacked as a youth football coach at Crewe Alexandra short time after

1:38:50 > 1:38:53parents confronted him and threatened to call the police about

1:38:53 > 1:38:57his behaviour. The 64-year-old was given a 31 year sentence for abusing

1:38:57 > 1:39:01young boys in his care, eight days ago. Some of the victims welling to

1:39:01 > 1:39:05Crewe Alexandra, where he was employed for seven years until he

1:39:05 > 1:39:08left in 1992. The club has denied its new anything about his behaviour

1:39:08 > 1:39:10or the abuse and said he left for footballing reasons.

1:39:10 > 1:39:16That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

1:39:16 > 1:39:24We are going to talk about a Facebook project

1:39:24 > 1:39:27Facebook project where individuals use Facebook Messenger to engage

1:39:27 > 1:39:31people with extremist views or posting extremist content on the

1:39:31 > 1:39:34app, to engage them in conversation and challenge them on their views

1:39:34 > 1:39:38and talk to them about the views. This tweet from Bill, "Facebook

1:39:38 > 1:39:41makes up its own rules without any way to challenge them. My account

1:39:41 > 1:39:48was disabled for no reason and they never respond why". Denise says, "So

1:39:48 > 1:39:51what is the answer? Should we will be privately looking for extremists

1:39:51 > 1:39:55and talking to them ourselves? Therefore, no one would have to

1:39:55 > 1:39:57worry about privacy. Something obviously needs to be done but the

1:39:57 > 1:40:01way Facebook went about this needs changing". We will talk more about

1:40:01 > 1:40:04that later so send in your views and we will feed them into the

1:40:04 > 1:40:08conversation. Time for the sport. After their embarrassing defeat in

1:40:08 > 1:40:13the League Cup final, Arsenal legend Ian Wright has said there is no case

1:40:13 > 1:40:17for manager Arthur and they get to stay in charge of the club. Wenger,

1:40:17 > 1:40:21nearly into is dragged the second year in the job but Ian Wright says

1:40:21 > 1:40:25he's mollycoddling the team that has lost half of its matches in 2018. As

1:40:25 > 1:40:29Scotland look to follow up their huge Six Nations win over England,

1:40:29 > 1:40:32they could be without key man Ryan Wilson do the rest of the tournament

1:40:32 > 1:40:36if he is punished for making contact with the eye area of an England

1:40:36 > 1:40:40player on Saturday. British boxer Curtis Woodhouse says he may not

1:40:40 > 1:40:44fight again following the death of Scott Westgarth after about at the

1:40:44 > 1:40:47weekend. Woodhouse says it has left him questioning the morale of this

1:40:47 > 1:40:52board. A time Olympic gold medallist and big Manchester United van Usain

1:40:52 > 1:40:56Bolt will fulfil a dream in June -- eight time Olympic gold medallist.

1:40:56 > 1:41:00He will captain the world 11 at this year's Soccer Aid match where he

1:41:00 > 1:41:10will take on Robbie Williams' England side. More sport after 11am.

1:41:10 > 1:41:13We can exclusively reveal that Facebook has been funding a project

1:41:13 > 1:41:16which saw their Messenger system used to try to deradicalise people.

1:41:16 > 1:41:19Users posting extreme far-right and Islamist content in the UK

1:41:19 > 1:41:21were identified and contacted in an attempt to

1:41:21 > 1:41:22challenge their views.

1:41:22 > 1:41:25It's been criticised by privacy campaigners as Facebook

1:41:25 > 1:41:27straying into surveillance.

1:41:27 > 1:41:30Our reporter Catrin Nye had an exclusive look

1:41:30 > 1:41:32at the project for us.

1:41:32 > 1:41:35We bought you her full film earlier, and here's a short extract.

1:41:35 > 1:41:37So first of all, I'd private message them,

1:41:37 > 1:41:43ask them a few questions about what is on their profile page.

1:41:43 > 1:41:46Would you have a look first at what is on there?

1:41:46 > 1:41:50Yeah, yeah.

1:41:50 > 1:41:52Colin Bidwell is a victim of terrorism.

1:41:52 > 1:41:53He survived the 2015 Tunisia beach attack.

1:41:53 > 1:41:57He has since been paid to go on Facebook using a fake profile to

1:41:57 > 1:41:59message extremists.

1:41:59 > 1:42:00It's part of a project funded by Facebook themselves.

1:42:00 > 1:42:03Be nice to people, whatever your beliefs or religion, for me.

1:42:03 > 1:42:06It is simple.

1:42:06 > 1:42:08Researchers found people posting both extreme Islamist and far right

1:42:08 > 1:42:09material on Facebook.

1:42:09 > 1:42:1311 people including Colin were tasked with trying to challenge

1:42:13 > 1:42:18their extreme views with conversations on Facebook Messenger.

1:42:18 > 1:42:20Just keep saying, you can have your extreme

1:42:20 > 1:42:21beliefs and everything but

1:42:21 > 1:42:25when it gets to extreme violence, that is the bit I can't understand.

1:42:25 > 1:42:26Counter-extremism organisation the Institute for Strategic Dialogue

1:42:26 > 1:42:30was behind the research.

1:42:30 > 1:42:33We were trying to fill a really big gap in responses to online

1:42:33 > 1:42:34recruitment and radicalisation.

1:42:34 > 1:42:38The gap is in the direct messaging space.

1:42:38 > 1:42:42In all, 569 people were contacted on Facebook.

1:42:42 > 1:42:48112 people replied.

1:42:48 > 1:42:5076 had a sustained conversation and ISD claimed that

1:42:50 > 1:42:51eight people showed signs the conversation

1:42:51 > 1:42:54had a positive impact.

1:42:54 > 1:42:56People like Colin used fake profiles to have these conversations,

1:42:56 > 1:43:02something against Facebook's own rules.

1:43:02 > 1:43:06I would say that we don't allow fake accounts on the platform

1:43:06 > 1:43:11and we don't advise people to use fake accounts at all in any

1:43:11 > 1:43:12circumstances because they will be disrupted.

1:43:12 > 1:43:14But you did here?

1:43:14 > 1:43:15Exactly what the researchers did in this

1:43:15 > 1:43:19circumstance was done independently of Facebook.

1:43:19 > 1:43:24The project has raised serious concerns for privacy campaigners.

1:43:24 > 1:43:26I think there are concerns over who exactly is

1:43:26 > 1:43:28carrying out this work.

1:43:28 > 1:43:30Even if the organisation itself may have been

1:43:30 > 1:43:34involved in doing research over many years, it does not mean they are

1:43:34 > 1:43:36qualified to carry out this kind of quasi-law

1:43:36 > 1:43:39enforcement surveillance role.

1:43:39 > 1:43:42I think it will make people sceptical about the role of social

1:43:42 > 1:43:43media organisations.

1:43:43 > 1:43:46When are you not being monitored?

1:43:46 > 1:43:49Only if they were specifically asked did the

1:43:49 > 1:43:52people having those conversations admit they were doing it on behalf

1:43:52 > 1:43:53of a research organisation.

1:43:53 > 1:43:55Every time someone found out, the person

1:43:55 > 1:43:59either cut off the conversation or reacted aggressively.

1:43:59 > 1:44:03How do you know you weren't making things worse?

1:44:03 > 1:44:05You could create an environment where people are even

1:44:05 > 1:44:08more suspicious of organisations like yours.

1:44:08 > 1:44:11These are violent, hateful views.

1:44:11 > 1:44:13You can either censor that.

1:44:13 > 1:44:20You can ignore it and it will fester.

1:44:20 > 1:44:24Or you can try to engage it to see if you can walk them back

1:44:24 > 1:44:26from the edge.

1:44:26 > 1:44:29Now let's talk with Sasha Havlicek, who is the head of the Institute

1:44:29 > 1:44:31of Strategic Dialogue who did the research, and who we

1:44:31 > 1:44:34saw in Catrin's film.

1:44:34 > 1:44:36Also with us are Millie Graham Wood from Privacy International,

1:44:36 > 1:44:39who is concerned about the impact of the pilot scheme on privacy

1:44:39 > 1:44:41and surveillance grounds, and Miqdaad Versi from

1:44:41 > 1:44:45the Muslim Council of Britain.

1:44:45 > 1:44:50Welcome to all of you. Why is Facebook funding this?I think they

1:44:50 > 1:44:53are interested in finding innovative solutions to a problem on their

1:44:53 > 1:44:59platform. We actually did this work prior to the pilot that they funded

1:44:59 > 1:45:03on a smaller scale. We are in the business of trying to find

1:45:03 > 1:45:07innovative solutions, increasingly, these challenges are going online,

1:45:07 > 1:45:12and we need digital responses and we went to them with a piece of action

1:45:12 > 1:45:16research that was designed to fill a gap and look at what might work to

1:45:16 > 1:45:21address this problem. The methodology was ours and I need to

1:45:21 > 1:45:26say this over and over but the data is public. We were not given any

1:45:26 > 1:45:31preferential look under the bonnet in terms of the data. We are looking

1:45:31 > 1:45:35at essentially what people post publicly. This is the modern-day

1:45:35 > 1:45:40version of Speakers' Corner. This is somebody coming out, not posting

1:45:40 > 1:45:44questions and concerns about British foreign or immigration policy. These

1:45:44 > 1:45:48are people who are posting dehumanising, violent messaging

1:45:48 > 1:45:54against another group.

1:45:54 > 1:45:58You are shaking your head when Sasha was saying it is the equivalent of

1:45:58 > 1:46:05Speaker's corner.No, it is not. Facebook has allowed a change to the

1:46:05 > 1:46:12rules of the game. They funded an organisation by setting up fake

1:46:12 > 1:46:15profiles and can monitor people who are not doing anything illegal as I

1:46:15 > 1:46:19understand it and who are part of the groups that Facebook allows to

1:46:19 > 1:46:24exist. Yet you are being monitored without your knowledge and you are

1:46:24 > 1:46:27being assessed perhaps on your likes and friendship groups in ways that

1:46:27 > 1:46:35you have no cob Renton.Can you respond to that?

1:46:35 > 1:46:40respond to that?When anybody asks our intervention provider, and I

1:46:40 > 1:46:44should say we are a civil society organisation and it is within a

1:46:44 > 1:46:50network we have developed of former extremists, survivors of extremism,

1:46:50 > 1:46:55and they have a very personal story to share with people. As such they

1:46:55 > 1:47:00have great credibility. They are personally sharing openly their own

1:47:00 > 1:47:04experiences and they are being very honest in doing that. Do we need to

1:47:04 > 1:47:09protect them? Yes, we do and pseudonyms are used by security. But

1:47:09 > 1:47:12they are very open in the engagements they have these

1:47:12 > 1:47:15individuals and they share a lot of their own personal journeys in those

1:47:15 > 1:47:23engagements.The trouble is, you say the use of pseudonyms, but Facebook

1:47:23 > 1:47:27are allowing people to breach the terms of service. If these are the

1:47:27 > 1:47:30rules of the game we need transparency from Facebook that they

1:47:30 > 1:47:34are permitting this. We saw in one of the clips that one of the people

1:47:34 > 1:47:40who worked for you had been a victim. Obviously someone like that

1:47:40 > 1:47:43has huge emotional engagement with this kind of thing that does not

1:47:43 > 1:47:47mean they are the right person to conduct this form of surveillance.

1:47:47 > 1:47:52If this is what Facebook is to become, surveillance platform, this

1:47:52 > 1:47:57has to be people who do not an emotional engagement to a certain

1:47:57 > 1:48:02degree because they need to be objective, they need to know what

1:48:02 > 1:48:05they are doing and they need to be professionals if this is the route

1:48:05 > 1:48:11we want to take.Those intervention providers did not conduct the

1:48:11 > 1:48:15research. Our research is conducted the research based on what people

1:48:15 > 1:48:19were posting publicly. Then we match people up within our network to be

1:48:19 > 1:48:25able to weed out on a personal basis with these individuals. We provided

1:48:25 > 1:48:28all our intervention providers with training and Pastoral support

1:48:28 > 1:48:33because this is difficult work. This is not anything new in the off-line

1:48:33 > 1:48:37sense. This kind of direct engagement work happens in the

1:48:37 > 1:48:42off-line world and we know once somebody is in a sustained

1:48:42 > 1:48:46engagement with a trusted person, and intervention provider, they are

1:48:46 > 1:48:50very unlikely to cross the threshold to violence and that is what we are

1:48:50 > 1:48:54trying to do. We are trying to help them to accept that pathway to hate

1:48:54 > 1:49:01and violence.In the off-line space they get the opportunity to see the

1:49:01 > 1:49:04person and know the person. Overall the idea that Facebook is starting

1:49:04 > 1:49:09to look at content more carefully is a good thing.The criticism is that

1:49:09 > 1:49:14it is not really. This might be seen as a way of silencing a little of

1:49:14 > 1:49:19the criticism because it does not take enough extremist content down.

1:49:19 > 1:49:23That is right. There is a big problem because when there is

1:49:23 > 1:49:27somebody inciting violence, and if that is a group of people who is

1:49:27 > 1:49:35being targeted, it is people who are inciting violence who are glorifying

1:49:35 > 1:49:39terrorism, these are things that are getting very close if not breaching

1:49:39 > 1:49:43the law. If they are breaching the law, there should be police

1:49:43 > 1:49:47intervention. We need to go through a legal process. I worry slightly in

1:49:47 > 1:49:53that grey space if that are not insufficient safeguards in place,

1:49:53 > 1:49:56what stops things going wrong? That is what we need to try and

1:49:56 > 1:50:02understand better and ensure there are appropriate safeguards in place

1:50:02 > 1:50:06so we can have transparency and accountability when things go wrong.

1:50:06 > 1:50:10Absolutely and we apply the gold standard in social work and policing

1:50:10 > 1:50:14practice in terms of risk frameworks and support we provide.How can you

1:50:14 > 1:50:20do that when you are not a counterterrorism officer?It is all

1:50:20 > 1:50:23happening in the pre-criminal space and it is important to understand

1:50:23 > 1:50:28that. If you only address this problem through hard solutions, law

1:50:28 > 1:50:31enforcement or military solutions, you will never get to the heart of

1:50:31 > 1:50:36the growing challenge which is underpinning it.When you say

1:50:36 > 1:50:39pre-criminal space you mean what? What sort of things are people

1:50:39 > 1:50:42saying that would allow your intervention providers to engage

1:50:42 > 1:50:48them in conversation?It has not crossed a legal threshold.What are

1:50:48 > 1:50:54you saying? What sort of comment would trigger one of your

1:50:54 > 1:51:00intervention providers getting in touch with them?Well, who can kill

1:51:00 > 1:51:05the most refugees? Let's have a national lotto. The sort of things.

1:51:05 > 1:51:10People referring to rounding people up in gas chambers.Potentially that

1:51:10 > 1:51:16is incitement to violence, that is not pre-criminal space.As we did

1:51:16 > 1:51:21this programme of work, we did see accounts coming down during the

1:51:21 > 1:51:27course of the programme, which is right.How many?I do not have the

1:51:27 > 1:51:31number of the top of my head.It cannot be that many you would have

1:51:31 > 1:51:40remembered.There is an influence in how much content is out there, for

1:51:40 > 1:51:43instance in the Islamist space and the extreme right space. We found a

1:51:43 > 1:51:48lot more being suppressed in a violent way in the right wing space

1:51:48 > 1:51:51than in the Islamist space which gives you a sense as to how much

1:51:51 > 1:51:56pressure has been put on that issue. We have seen a lot more happening

1:51:56 > 1:52:00there, but it does not get rid of the challenge which is how do we

1:52:00 > 1:52:03engage with individuals who are progressing down a pathway in a way

1:52:03 > 1:52:09that can turn them away? That can happen. There are cognitive openings

1:52:09 > 1:52:14that give us an opportunity to turn people away, often kids who are

1:52:14 > 1:52:20angry and who are feeling alienated. The future is in the digital space.

1:52:20 > 1:52:25If we do not get into that space and do things in an innovative way, we

1:52:25 > 1:52:26will lose.OK, thank you very much.

1:52:26 > 1:52:34OK, thank you very much.

1:52:34 > 1:52:36Like "giving up a three-course meal for the promise

1:52:36 > 1:52:39of a packet of crisps", that's the view of a former senior

1:52:39 > 1:52:42civil servant at the Department for International Trade on proposals

1:52:42 > 1:52:43for Britain to leave the EU customs union.

1:52:43 > 1:52:46Chris Mason is at Westminster.

1:52:46 > 1:52:53Who is this person? Sir Martin Donnelly, a former permanent

1:52:53 > 1:52:57secretary, chief civil servant at the Department for International

1:52:57 > 1:53:01Trade. He worked alongside Liam Fox who has a big Brexit speech coming

1:53:01 > 1:53:05up at lunchtime. He will talk about the real merit of leaving the

1:53:05 > 1:53:10customs union and being able to go out around the world and strike

1:53:10 > 1:53:13international free-trade arrangements and deals on a global

1:53:13 > 1:53:19scale. But the guy who used to be most senior civil servant has, yes,

1:53:19 > 1:53:25is going to give a speech tonight, but has a very arresting phrase, all

1:53:25 > 1:53:31about giving up that three course dinner of minestrone soup and maybe

1:53:31 > 1:53:33rabbits and vegetables and new potatoes and apple crumble and

1:53:33 > 1:53:38custard and replacing it with this, a packet of crisps. Here is so

1:53:38 > 1:53:40Martin Donnelly.

1:53:40 > 1:53:45Here is so Martin Donnelly.

1:53:45 > 1:53:48If we look at where we are now with fair and equal access

1:53:48 > 1:53:50to the very large, rich EU market which is nearly half

1:53:50 > 1:53:53of our service and goods exports, plus preferential access to other

1:53:53 > 1:53:56markets which gets us up to about three fifths of our trade,

1:53:56 > 1:53:59if you are going to give that up for the promise of some bilateral

1:53:59 > 1:54:02deals with markets that are much less important to us,

1:54:02 > 1:54:07it is like giving up a three-course meal for a packet of crisps.

1:54:07 > 1:54:13It is just not equivalent and we have to recognise that reality.

1:54:13 > 1:54:18So Martin Donnelly.

1:54:18 > 1:54:20Women in Syria have been sexually exploited by men delivering

1:54:20 > 1:54:23aid on behalf of the UN and international charities,

1:54:23 > 1:54:25the BBC has learned.

1:54:25 > 1:54:28Aid workers said the men would trade food and lifts for sexual favours.

1:54:28 > 1:54:32Despite warnings about the abuse three years ago, a new report shows

1:54:32 > 1:54:36it is continuing in the south of the country.

1:54:36 > 1:54:39Danielle Spencer, a humanitarian adviser working for a charity,

1:54:39 > 1:54:42heard about the allegations from a group of Syrian

1:54:42 > 1:54:50women in a refugee camp in Jordan three years ago