0:00:07 > 0:00:10Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,
0:00:10 > 0:00:11welcome to the programme.
0:00:11 > 0:00:12Our top story today.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15Moscow is considering its response after Theresa May warned it had
0:00:15 > 0:00:17until midnight tonight to explain its role in the Salisbury
0:00:17 > 0:00:23nerve agent attack or it would face retaliation.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26Should there be no credible response, we will conclude that this
0:00:26 > 0:00:29action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state
0:00:29 > 0:00:33against the United Kingdom and we will not tolerate such
0:00:33 > 0:00:39a brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41We'll hear growing calls that England should boycott
0:00:41 > 0:00:44the World Cup this summer.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46Keen to hear from you, would you support England
0:00:46 > 0:00:50withdrawing or is it just empty gesture politics?
0:00:50 > 0:00:51Also on the programme.
0:00:51 > 0:00:52Police say tackling child exploitation in Telford
0:00:52 > 0:00:55is their number one priority after it's been revealed
0:00:55 > 0:00:58that up to 1,000 girls, some as young as 11,
0:00:58 > 0:01:03may have been abused in the town over the last 40 years.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06It's horrific and an absolute disgrace and I think essentially
0:01:06 > 0:01:10what it means is that there is really no end to the sexual abuse
0:01:10 > 0:01:13scandals that we're going to see in this country.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16We'll hear from one victim who was abused as a young teenager
0:01:16 > 0:01:19over a period of years, raped countless times and forced
0:01:19 > 0:01:25to sleep with several men a night.
0:01:25 > 0:01:27And one of the biggest names in British TV for most
0:01:27 > 0:01:34of our lifetimes is here to tell us why he's trying to sue Lloyds
0:01:34 > 0:01:40Banking Group for over £60 million.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news
0:01:52 > 0:01:58and developing stories and as always really keen to hear from you.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00A little later we'll hear from two Asian friends
0:02:00 > 0:02:02who say their experience of being turned away
0:02:02 > 0:02:05from a restaurant on Mother's Day is a typical example of the kind
0:02:05 > 0:02:13of everyday racism people of colour experience in the UK.
0:02:15 > 0:02:17That is after half-past ten.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19Really keen to hear your experiences this morning.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22Use the hashtag #VictoriaLive and if you text, you will be charged
0:02:22 > 0:02:23at the standard network rate.
0:02:23 > 0:02:24Our top story today.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26The hours are ticking down towards the midnight deadline given
0:02:26 > 0:02:29to Russia by Theresa May over the Salisbury nerve agent attack.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31The Prime Minister says she'll take action unless
0:02:31 > 0:02:34by the end of the day Moscow is able to explain its role.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36The UK has had backing from the American Secretary
0:02:36 > 0:02:39of State, Rex Tillerson, who said Russia was probably behind
0:02:39 > 0:02:41the poisoning of a former double agent and his daughter,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44nine days ago.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46Caroline Davies reports.
0:02:46 > 0:02:51A supermarket car park shut down to search for a lethal chemical.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54Hundreds of police are still at work in Salisbury, trying to find out
0:02:54 > 0:02:59who poisoned a former Russian spy.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia are still
0:03:01 > 0:03:03critically ill in hospital.
0:03:03 > 0:03:08They were attacked with a rare nerve agent.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11We now know it's a type only developed by Russia called Novichok.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13Yesterday, the Prime Minister gave an ultimatum to the Kremlin -
0:03:13 > 0:03:17explain how this happened or there will be consequences.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20Either this was a direct act by the Russian state
0:03:20 > 0:03:22against our country, or the Russian government lost
0:03:22 > 0:03:26control of its potentially catastrophically damaging nerve
0:03:26 > 0:03:31agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34The Russian ambassador has until midnight tonight
0:03:34 > 0:03:36to return with an answer.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Russia has denied being involved.
0:03:38 > 0:03:43President Putin brushed off questions about the attack.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45TRANSLATION:We are busy with agriculture here
0:03:45 > 0:03:48to create good conditions for people's lives
0:03:48 > 0:03:52and you talk to me about some tragedies.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54First, work out what actually happened there
0:03:54 > 0:03:59and then we'll talk about it.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01If there's no credible response, the UK Government has said it
0:04:01 > 0:04:03will take action against Russia for what happened here.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07But how far they can go will depend on whether they can get the backing
0:04:07 > 0:04:11of other countries.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13This diplomatic stand-off between Russia and the UK
0:04:13 > 0:04:16could yet turn into a crisis.
0:04:16 > 0:04:24Caroline Davies, BBC News.
0:04:24 > 0:04:28Let's get the latest from Norman at Downing Street. The Cabinet are
0:04:28 > 0:04:32arriving for a meeting, what kind of things could they do to Russia if
0:04:32 > 0:04:37Russia doesn't speak up before the deadline?Well, I think a couple of
0:04:37 > 0:04:41things follow from what we have the Prime Minister yesterday, one is, I
0:04:41 > 0:04:45don't think anyone expects Russia to come up with some sort of credible
0:04:45 > 0:04:50explanation as to how nerve agent was used in the Salisbury attack,
0:04:50 > 0:04:53the second is, whatever the Government decides to do, it's going
0:04:53 > 0:05:00to have to be an awful lot more than happened after the murder of
0:05:00 > 0:05:03Alexander Litvinenko. Certainly you got the sense that yesterday Theresa
0:05:03 > 0:05:07May was raising the bar in terms of the likely Retallick three measures.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11What struck me most was that she wasn't ruling anything out at all.
0:05:11 > 0:05:15You had Tory MPs saying, why don't you follow the example of Edward
0:05:15 > 0:05:24Heath and he booted out 90 Russian diplomats and assorted trade envoys?
0:05:24 > 0:05:30The view was that it's pretty much put the lid on Russian espionage in
0:05:30 > 0:05:35the UK for the rest of the Cold War. Mrs May didn't reject that as an
0:05:35 > 0:05:40option. Similarly she was asked, why don't we engage in cyber warfare
0:05:40 > 0:05:44against Russia? Again she didn't reject that. You just get the sense
0:05:44 > 0:05:48that really, nothing is off the table. But the bottom line is,
0:05:48 > 0:05:53whatever we do is probably not going to significantly impact on President
0:05:53 > 0:05:57Putin unless we get other countries on board, that is why Mrs May has
0:05:57 > 0:06:03dropped about going to Nato and to the UN, going to the EU. The hard
0:06:03 > 0:06:07part is, that is a much more slow, time-consuming, difficult process
0:06:07 > 0:06:10because quite obvious that, other countries have other agendas. You
0:06:10 > 0:06:15just have to look at the EU, where the are a number of EU countries who
0:06:15 > 0:06:18are a bit sceptical about the existing sanctions against Russia,
0:06:18 > 0:06:25never mind putting on additional sanctions and many of them also
0:06:25 > 0:06:28highly dependent on Russian energy supplies. So they are unnaturally
0:06:28 > 0:06:33cautious. With the UN, the problem is, Russia, a prominent member, has
0:06:33 > 0:06:41a veto of any resolutions. Lastly, America, the difficulty there is
0:06:41 > 0:06:44President Trump is somewhat ambivalent attitudes towards
0:06:44 > 0:06:48President Putin, albeit there were stronger words coming from Rex
0:06:48 > 0:06:53Tillerson last night. But the options for a broader international
0:06:53 > 0:06:59move are quite difficult to put in place
0:06:59 > 0:07:02will stopLater on the programme we will talk about whether England
0:07:02 > 0:07:03should boycott the World Cup in June.
0:07:03 > 0:07:08We would like to hear from you. Do let us know your own view.
0:07:08 > 0:07:15Here is then in the newsroom. -- here is Ben.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17The Chancellor, Philip Hammond, is expected to deliver some positive
0:07:17 > 0:07:19economic news in his first ever Spring Statement today.
0:07:19 > 0:07:21The statement, which replaces the spring Budget, will include
0:07:21 > 0:07:24the latest official economic figures but it will not impose new taxes.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28Labour ministers say Mr Hammond must take the chance to end austerity.
0:07:28 > 0:07:33Productivity is still 35%, below the French and Germans, for example.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35Unemployment levels are low but the incredible amount
0:07:35 > 0:07:40of insecurity in jobs, low pay, inflation is still high,
0:07:40 > 0:07:44investment both in the public sector and private sector
0:07:44 > 0:07:47are critically low.
0:07:47 > 0:07:55So I don't think it's time to crack open the champagne.
0:07:55 > 0:07:57But housing minister Dominic Raab said the Chancellor would look
0:07:57 > 0:08:00to take a balanced approach with the public finances.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02One of the obvious thing he says is that he doesn't
0:08:02 > 0:08:05want to be engaged in tinkering, short-term measures.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08That's been welcomed by business and groups like
0:08:08 > 0:08:09the Institute for Government.
0:08:09 > 0:08:11I think you'll hear less of the political clatter and fanfare
0:08:11 > 0:08:14that normally accompanies these set piece events and more of the healthy
0:08:14 > 0:08:19economic hum that is warranted by the raw economic data.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21The European Parliament meets in Strasbourg later to debate
0:08:21 > 0:08:24the EU's guidelines on Brexit.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26After a speech from the European Commission President,
0:08:26 > 0:08:31Jean-Claude Juncker, MEPs will discuss the guidelines,
0:08:31 > 0:08:31And
0:08:31 > 0:08:33as well as their own resolution, which outlines the parliament's
0:08:33 > 0:08:38priorities and so-called "red lines" for the Brexit negotiations.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40The former Liverpool and England defender Jamie Carragher says
0:08:40 > 0:08:44he'll accept any punishment that comes his way after he was filmed
0:08:44 > 0:08:47spitting from his car towards another vehicle.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50It happened after Manchester United's 2-1 win over Liverpool
0:08:50 > 0:08:53where he was working as a pundit for Sky Sports.
0:08:53 > 0:09:01He's been suspended from his job.
0:09:01 > 0:09:03Two victims of black cab rapist John Worboys begin
0:09:03 > 0:09:05a High Court challenge today against what they have called
0:09:05 > 0:09:07the irrational decision to release him from jail.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10The judicial review is expected to hear for the first time why
0:09:10 > 0:09:13the Parole Board plans to free the sex attacker.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15The board and Worboys, who will appear via video
0:09:15 > 0:09:20link from prison, oppose the legal challenge.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23More details are beginning to emerge of the allegations of abuse over
0:09:23 > 0:09:27four decades against girls in the Shropshire town of Telford.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30The police have already said that tackling child sex abuse
0:09:30 > 0:09:32is their top priority, and that allegations in a Sunday
0:09:32 > 0:09:36newspaper aren't new to them.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39Up to a thousand girls are reported to have been groomed and exploited
0:09:39 > 0:09:45with some as young as 11 being drugged and raped.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47Doctors in the UK and Ireland have seen 130 cases
0:09:47 > 0:09:54of rickets in children under 16 over a two year period.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57It's the first study of its kind into the prevalence of the illness
0:09:57 > 0:10:05which affects bone development.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09it can be prevented by taking vitamin D supplements.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11A 17-year-old boy has died after opening a parcel bomb
0:10:11 > 0:10:13delivered to his home in Austin, Texas.
0:10:13 > 0:10:15A 39-year-old man and an elderly woman have also been injured
0:10:15 > 0:10:18in what are believe to be related incidents over the past 10 days.
0:10:18 > 0:10:26Police are looking into possible motives behind the attacks.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29Salt content in takeaway dishes must be urgently reduced in a bid
0:10:29 > 0:10:31to tackle strokes and heart disease, campaigners have warned.
0:10:31 > 0:10:35A study by Action on Salt found some Chinese meals including sides
0:10:35 > 0:10:38like prawn crackers contain more than double
0:10:38 > 0:10:42the recommended daily intake.
0:10:42 > 0:10:50The survey also revealed a selection of ready meals were high in salt.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52That's a summary of the latest BBC News, more at 9.30am.
0:10:56 > 0:11:04If you are getting in touch with us, you are very welcome.
0:11:04 > 0:11:06you are very welcome. Wright, sport. Well Perry is that the BBC Sport
0:11:06 > 0:11:11Centre.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Menna Fitzpatrick and her guide Jen Kehoe have this morning won a silver
0:11:14 > 0:11:19medal at the Winter Paralympics in Pyeongchang in the women's visually
0:11:19 > 0:11:24impaired super combined events. The pair were second after the super-g
0:11:24 > 0:11:26run despite an impressive slalom effort out there and they were
0:11:26 > 0:11:33unable to get the better of the Slovakians. Great story, Menna
0:11:33 > 0:11:36Fitzpatrick, just 19, born with no vision in her left eye, limited
0:11:36 > 0:11:40sight in her right eye, but started skiing at the age of five. They have
0:11:40 > 0:11:44only been working together since 2015 and have built up a strong
0:11:44 > 0:11:48partnership. Millie Knight has missed out on a third straight medal
0:11:48 > 0:11:54with Brett wild, her guide, they workforce a slalom run. Kelly
0:11:54 > 0:11:57Gallagher finished seventh with Gary Smith. In terms of the curling,
0:11:57 > 0:12:02Great Britain have dented their hopes of a medal in the curling, it
0:12:02 > 0:12:07didn't quite go there with this morning. They beat Canada yesterday.
0:12:07 > 0:12:12They were expected to see off the Slovakians but they lost 6-5. The
0:12:12 > 0:12:16team tried to do a bit better against the neutral Paralympic
0:12:16 > 0:12:22athletes later. That one starts at around 10:30. Manchester City or
0:12:22 > 0:12:26even closer to the Premier League title? It's inevitable call isn't
0:12:26 > 0:12:31it? That is the most interesting thing, they beat Stoke last night
0:12:31 > 0:12:372-0, David Silva with both goals. They are restoring a 16 point leads
0:12:37 > 0:12:39and it means if you are from Manchester this is huge because
0:12:39 > 0:12:42Manchester City need just two more wins for the third Premier League
0:12:42 > 0:12:46title. If they beat Everton later this month they could seal the
0:12:46 > 0:12:51Premier League title on Derby Day at the Etihad against their rivals
0:12:51 > 0:12:54Manchester United. This will be on the 7th of April, Vincent Kompany
0:12:54 > 0:12:59saying it is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Stoke, they are just a
0:12:59 > 0:13:03point from safety, eight games to go. And another Premier League
0:13:03 > 0:13:08manager has lost his job? Yes, amazingly, 20 teams in the Premier
0:13:08 > 0:13:12League, we're just in March, nine Premier League managers have lost
0:13:12 > 0:13:18their jobs this season. Maurizio Pellegrino of Southampton, he is no
0:13:18 > 0:13:22longer there, just one win in their last 17 games, they still play
0:13:22 > 0:13:27Arsenal, Chelsea, and Manchester City at home, and only three matches
0:13:27 > 0:13:32from their remaining games at home. I spoke to Pellegrino on Saturday
0:13:32 > 0:13:37and he didn't sound too convinced he was still be in a job this week. I
0:13:37 > 0:13:41have to ask you again, do you still think with eight games to go that
0:13:41 > 0:13:45you're the man that can keep Southampton the Premier League?I am
0:13:45 > 0:13:49the Southampton manager right now. And you're confident you can keep
0:13:49 > 0:13:53them up with yellow of course, if not, I have to move along. But
0:13:53 > 0:14:00sometimes, one side they are the winners you duller than your side of
0:14:00 > 0:14:04the losers.But in a week you can change everything with one victory.
0:14:04 > 0:14:09This is part of our life.That was his final interview in England,
0:14:09 > 0:14:16Pellegrino out, this man is the favourite for the job, Marco Silva.
0:14:16 > 0:14:21Sacked by Watford in January. Other names in the frame are Slaven Bilic,
0:14:21 > 0:14:26Mark and Martin O'Neill. And who won the latest tennis bottle of the
0:14:26 > 0:14:35Williams sister? Serena was beaten by venous, at her comeback. --
0:14:35 > 0:14:40beaten by Venus Williams. 17 years ago, this term it was the subject of
0:14:40 > 0:14:44race is abused so great to see these two getting a great reception.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48Serena saying she has a long way to go in this comeback and she revealed
0:14:48 > 0:14:52in February she almost died after giving birth. She was bedridden for
0:14:52 > 0:15:00six weeks. I will have the headlines at half past nine.
0:15:00 > 0:15:02Let down for years by police and social services,
0:15:02 > 0:15:05victims of the Telford abuse scandal say it's time for authorities
0:15:05 > 0:15:08to accept their failings and hold a public inquiry into how as many
0:15:08 > 0:15:13as 1,000 girls were abused in the town over a 40 year period.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16On this programme yesterday we told you the scandal could be the worst
0:15:16 > 0:15:18the country has ever seen.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20Police there say tackling child sexual exploitation
0:15:20 > 0:15:25remains their number one priority but so far only seven men have been
0:15:25 > 0:15:30convicted of any crimes with many others escaping justice.
0:15:30 > 0:15:34And there are reports that the abuse could be linked to three murders
0:15:34 > 0:15:38and two deaths in the town.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41As with other grooming scandals we've seen
0:15:41 > 0:15:46the victims are mainly white, and the abusers mainly British
0:15:46 > 0:15:49Pakistani or Bangladeshi men.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52Some of the girls as young as 11 were drugged, beaten and raped
0:15:52 > 0:15:57over a number of years.
0:15:57 > 0:15:59We can talk to Holly, a victim of child sexual
0:15:59 > 0:16:00exploitation in Telford.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03She has agreed for us to hear her tell her story
0:16:03 > 0:16:06but she did not want us to show her face.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10Geraldine McKelvie, one of the journalists behind
0:16:10 > 0:16:14the Sunday Mirror investigation which exposed child sexual
0:16:14 > 0:16:15exploitation in Telford.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17And the town's Conservative MP Lucy Allan, who is calling
0:16:17 > 0:16:23for a public enquiry.
0:16:23 > 0:16:27Welcome, all of you, thank you coming on the programme. Holly, I
0:16:27 > 0:16:31will start with you, if I may. You were 14 when your exploitation
0:16:31 > 0:16:38began. How did it start?I was befriended by some boys my own age.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42They were harassing me constantly. What does that mean?
0:16:42 > 0:16:47They were harassing me constantly. What does that mean?They were
0:16:47 > 0:16:50constantly calling, saying, come and meet us, they would be hanging
0:16:50 > 0:16:55around.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58around. It's difficult to explain. Basically they took our phone
0:16:58 > 0:17:05numbers, and then sold them on to older men. And then from then, the
0:17:05 > 0:17:11older men would bombard us constantly with phone
0:17:12 > 0:17:18constantly with phone calls,... Saying what's to you?Saying, come
0:17:18 > 0:17:28and meet up with us, we will just go chilling. That was at first, I was,
0:17:28 > 0:17:32I don't want to. After receiving hundreds of calls every day,
0:17:32 > 0:17:38curiosity got the better of me and I went and met one. At first it was
0:17:38 > 0:17:42fine, he would go and buy us food, top up our mobile phones, things
0:17:42 > 0:17:49like that. So we built up a bit of trust. And then he started violently
0:17:49 > 0:17:58raping me. He would beat me with his belt if I didn't agree to let him
0:17:58 > 0:18:05rape me. And then he would try and make me feel better by making
0:18:05 > 0:18:08himself feel better, maybe, by giving us money or topping up our
0:18:08 > 0:18:17phones. From that man, it moved on to many men, about seven abusers in
0:18:17 > 0:18:22the end.So you were passed around, or they would all turn up en masse,
0:18:22 > 0:18:29or what?It would be almost whoever caught me first. Whoever saw me
0:18:29 > 0:18:36walking home from school first, or to a friends house. Telford is a
0:18:36 > 0:18:39very small area. So there's nowhere to hide. Somebody knows where you
0:18:39 > 0:18:46live, and your daily routine, so they can find you. But it quickly
0:18:46 > 0:18:54moved on to being sold on to men every single day. So I would be
0:18:54 > 0:19:01being sold, maybe two or three times a night, taken in to the only thing
0:19:01 > 0:19:06I can describe it as is a great house, it was set up for the purpose
0:19:06 > 0:19:14-- a rape house, set up for the purpose of young girls being its
0:19:14 > 0:19:19sold to men. People who would pay for the girls in Telford, it wasn't
0:19:19 > 0:19:22just Pakistani men, like we have seen across the rest of the country,
0:19:22 > 0:19:26there was every race and religion coming in and wanting to pay for
0:19:26 > 0:19:34girls.How did you cope with this? Everyone always asks, I can't really
0:19:34 > 0:19:40explain. Almost like I was living in a bubble. I was just numb I had no
0:19:40 > 0:19:48feelings about anything, and all I wanted to do was make my family
0:19:48 > 0:19:54proud of me. So I continued going to school, did my best, everything I
0:19:54 > 0:19:58could do, just to try and make something good it my family because
0:19:58 > 0:20:07the reason why I kept going back were they were threatening me of
0:20:07 > 0:20:11bringing my house down, which was a real threat in Telford because that
0:20:11 > 0:20:16had happened previously. And they said they would rape my mum and
0:20:16 > 0:20:22sisters. They knew all about my family. There was escape at all.Why
0:20:22 > 0:20:26did your parents think you were at night? You were only 14. -- where
0:20:26 > 0:20:32did they think you were?My mum would give me a curfew and go in the
0:20:32 > 0:20:37house, the phone would be constantly going off and I would say, it's
0:20:37 > 0:20:42nobody. Mind your own business. I would wait for her to go to bed
0:20:42 > 0:20:46because she would think I was home and safe, she would fall asleep and
0:20:46 > 0:20:53I would go straight back out again. Until all hours in the morning. Come
0:20:53 > 0:20:57back, lie in bed and sometimes my alarm would go off almost as soon as
0:20:57 > 0:21:02I got into bed, ready to go to school.So just running off period
0:21:02 > 0:21:08general in all the time. The idea of -- just running of pure adrenaline
0:21:08 > 0:21:15all the time. The idea of contacting police was a no-no?Yes, one man
0:21:15 > 0:21:23turned up at my house saying that I was a prostitute to my mum,...An
0:21:23 > 0:21:28abuser? Yellow Macri yes, the reason was that I had not done what I had
0:21:28 > 0:21:36told him to do. How did your mum react?She was angry.Who at?
0:21:36 > 0:21:40Everybody, because you don't expect someone to say something about that
0:21:40 > 0:21:47about your child. And the behaviour I was displaying was almost general
0:21:47 > 0:21:49teenage behaviour, I think it's quite difficult to know the
0:21:49 > 0:21:58difference between having a teenage daughter and actual crying for help.
0:21:58 > 0:22:05The one thing that I did do, I was gang raped just after I turned 16.
0:22:05 > 0:22:10That was probably the worst, the worst thing that ever happened to
0:22:10 > 0:22:19me. Sorry...You do not need to apologise.After that, I tried to
0:22:19 > 0:22:25commit suicide. People say, was it a cry for help? And I said, no, I
0:22:25 > 0:22:28genuinely wanted to die because I thought that was the only way out.
0:22:28 > 0:22:34Obviously I'm here today, and I'm not suffering abuse any more, so
0:22:34 > 0:22:40there is a way out. And I think it's a front for every single person that
0:22:40 > 0:22:44is involved. However, -- I think it's different for every single
0:22:44 > 0:22:48person involved. However, I was in cars that were stopped and searched
0:22:48 > 0:22:55by the police with older men, I was never questioned why I was there, my
0:22:55 > 0:22:59name was never asked. I think if there had been more proactive
0:22:59 > 0:23:03behaviour in points like that, then things could have changed earlier. I
0:23:03 > 0:23:08was also going to the doctor and the youth sexual health clinic a couple
0:23:08 > 0:23:14of times a week, for three years, getting the morning after pill.How
0:23:14 > 0:23:20many times do you think you took it? I could not even estimate.Dozens,
0:23:20 > 0:23:25hundreds, you were going twice a week over three years? I know one
0:23:25 > 0:23:31there raised the alarm?-- and no wonder raised the alarm? Nothing.
0:23:31 > 0:23:39Did they ask you why you kept coming back?Note -- no, nobody asked any
0:23:39 > 0:23:43questions and I had two abortions and no questions asked. The summit
0:23:43 > 0:23:50he had asked at just a few questions and shown some some interest, I
0:23:50 > 0:23:53might have spoken out and said, there's something not quite right
0:23:53 > 0:23:59and I'm not comfortable. Nothing was ever said.Gosh.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03Let me bring in Geraldine, if I may. Thank you, Holly, I know that was
0:24:03 > 0:24:11hard for you. But I think just to let the audience know the kind of
0:24:11 > 0:24:16horrific experience that you have gone through without anybody, any
0:24:16 > 0:24:22grown-ups stepping income is just really, really distressing.
0:24:22 > 0:24:26Geraldine, you work for the Sunday Mirror, you decided to investigate
0:24:26 > 0:24:32child sexual exploitation in Telford, what piqued your curiosity?
0:24:32 > 0:24:39I had worked on a few stories about what had happened in Rotherham and I
0:24:39 > 0:24:43got in touch with Holly and I asked if she would be interested in
0:24:43 > 0:24:47telling her personal story. At first, I thought it would only be
0:24:47 > 0:24:50Holly's personal story, rather than the wider story of what had been
0:24:50 > 0:24:57going on in Telford. Once I spoke to Holly, and realised what she was
0:24:57 > 0:25:04saying about the sexual health and, the morning after pill, the other
0:25:04 > 0:25:09girls and the threats to burn down her house, that was a really real
0:25:09 > 0:25:12threat in Telford because two years previously, it had happened to a
0:25:12 > 0:25:18girl who had had a baby at 14 with an abuser. I just thought, there's
0:25:18 > 0:25:22something more to the story than just Holly's personal story. There
0:25:22 > 0:25:30seems to be a scandal just as bad as Rotherham and Rochdale.You spoke to
0:25:30 > 0:25:3712 victims, how have you gone from 12 to this estimated figure of
0:25:37 > 0:25:41hundreds in Telford?We asked an expert from London Metropolitan
0:25:41 > 0:25:50University to look at our figures and the timescale that our oldest
0:25:50 > 0:25:53victim is nearly 50, and our youngest is still a teenager. All of
0:25:53 > 0:25:58the victims we spoke to were largely completely unconnected, it was not
0:25:58 > 0:26:01just one small group of friends that were all being abused by the same
0:26:01 > 0:26:05people at the same time. This is somebody who had been abused in the
0:26:05 > 0:26:11early 80s and then a girl whose last violent rape was just months ago. We
0:26:11 > 0:26:16explained to this expert that the police themselves have identified
0:26:16 > 0:26:23over a two-year period in Telford, between 2007 and 2009, there could
0:26:23 > 0:26:28have been 100 victims. Based on the timescale and the police's and
0:26:28 > 0:26:31figures, we managed to estimate that. There could be 1000 victims,
0:26:31 > 0:26:38we think.And when we have reported on child sexual exploitation in
0:26:38 > 0:26:43Rochdale, in Rotherham for example, the cases revolve mostly about
0:26:43 > 0:26:46British Pakistani and Bangladeshi men, and white girls, but you have
0:26:46 > 0:26:50also spoken to Asian victims?We cannot get away from the fact that
0:26:50 > 0:26:56the vast majority of the abusers are from a Pakistani heritage community.
0:26:56 > 0:27:02But in Holly's story and a lot of other stories we heard from girls,
0:27:02 > 0:27:05although the abuse is being organised by men from the Pakistani
0:27:05 > 0:27:12heritage community, a lot of girls are being sold to men of a lot of
0:27:12 > 0:27:18different ethnicities. What is a factor in the Telford scandal is
0:27:18 > 0:27:22that there are some Asian victims. We've spoken to an Asian victim, we
0:27:22 > 0:27:25have also seen some files relating to the case about an Asian victim
0:27:25 > 0:27:35who felt pregnant six times in four years. But I think that because in
0:27:35 > 0:27:39some Asian communities this is seen as so shameful and the girls would
0:27:39 > 0:27:45have been shunned, we would never get the extent of their abuse.Let
0:27:45 > 0:27:49me bring in the MP for the area, why has this happened in Telford?I
0:27:49 > 0:27:54think we've heard this is not an isolated incident. I've been aware
0:27:54 > 0:27:59of people coming to me telling me such similar stories to what Holly
0:27:59 > 0:28:02has been so bravely recounting today. They all have very similar
0:28:02 > 0:28:09features. Online grooming is often a precursor to further activity. It's
0:28:09 > 0:28:16happening because people are not identifying it as a crime, and I
0:28:16 > 0:28:23think historically, it was looked at as young girls in gauging in risky
0:28:23 > 0:28:27behaviour not recognising the element of coercion and fear and
0:28:27 > 0:28:35shame that they were acting in ways that they were about the Bible and
0:28:35 > 0:28:41self-preservation. The threats to family, I -- it was about survival
0:28:41 > 0:28:45and self preservation. The threats to family, I had heard that, I did
0:28:45 > 0:28:48not hear that it had happened but they would say, they are threatening
0:28:48 > 0:28:54my sister and my mother.What you say about the way victims presented
0:28:54 > 0:28:59themselves, led to some in authority to not treat them as victims,
0:28:59 > 0:29:02however, when Holly tells us that she's going to a clinic to get the
0:29:02 > 0:29:07morning after pill twice a week for three years, that's hundreds of
0:29:07 > 0:29:12times. Hundreds of times. You don't have to be a trained medical health
0:29:12 > 0:29:16professional to think, there is something wrong here. Plus two
0:29:16 > 0:29:23abortions, oh, my goodness.This is about failing to join the dots...
0:29:23 > 0:29:28It's about social and cultural attitudes to young women and girls,
0:29:28 > 0:29:33where it is seen that it is the victim that brought it on themselves
0:29:33 > 0:29:36and that's what I find abhorrent about this. That people will more to
0:29:36 > 0:29:41turn a blind eye but almost say, that's how they behave, isn't it.
0:29:41 > 0:29:44And therefore we should not be interfering. That's the problem, the
0:29:44 > 0:29:49social and cultural attitudes of young women and girls were people
0:29:49 > 0:29:53feel this is perfectly normal behaviour for these young girls,
0:29:53 > 0:30:00without questioning why it is that they're engaging in sexual activity
0:30:00 > 0:30:05with men who were 30 or 40 and that only 14.He first called for a
0:30:05 > 0:30:10public inquiry into 16, no one is listening, it would seem? -- you
0:30:10 > 0:30:16first called for a public inquiry?I asked the Prime Minister to have an
0:30:16 > 0:30:19independent public inquiry into the bed in Telford in 2016 because I
0:30:19 > 0:30:26genuinely we have got to find why it happens.That was two years ago, was
0:30:26 > 0:30:32that Cameron?That was Theresa May. At that time, we were told by the
0:30:32 > 0:30:37authorities in Telford that there was sufficient investigation going
0:30:37 > 0:30:41on under the National inquiry that was being led by Baroness Jay, and
0:30:41 > 0:30:47in due course, that inquiry would come to Telford. We now know that's
0:30:47 > 0:30:52not true. The authorities are still using that as a reason today not to
0:30:52 > 0:30:58have an inquiry. So I am going to restate my request for an
0:30:58 > 0:31:03independent inquiry, I've put in today in Parliament for an urgent
0:31:03 > 0:31:05question. This cannot go on.
0:31:10 > 0:31:14Lucy Allen, with Rochdale and Rotherham, one of the issues that
0:31:14 > 0:31:19stops people in authority who could help these young people was
0:31:19 > 0:31:23political correctness, for want of a better phrase, they thought they
0:31:23 > 0:31:30approached a man of a dost-mac a British Pakistani man about
0:31:30 > 0:31:32allegations of exploiting and raping young girls, they would be accused
0:31:32 > 0:31:36of racism. Is this relevant to Telford, bearing in mind Geraldine
0:31:36 > 0:31:41has already said it wasn't just men of colour ayesThink it has some
0:31:41 > 0:31:45relevance to Telford. In any police investigation, you have to profile
0:31:45 > 0:31:49the perpetrator, you have to profile the victim and it's quite clear the
0:31:49 > 0:31:53victims are often white, often working-class young girls from
0:31:53 > 0:31:57disadvantaged backgrounds and the minute the high-profile case of
0:31:57 > 0:32:03operation chalice for all of Pakistani heritage.OK. This tweet,
0:32:03 > 0:32:06this is not just happening in Telford, this is taking place in
0:32:06 > 0:32:14most major towns and it's not just girls, it is boys too. This from
0:32:14 > 0:32:16Anak, absolutely heartbreaking hearing the story of the victim of
0:32:16 > 0:32:19the abuse in Telford on your programme this morning. We really
0:32:19 > 0:32:23need to do more for girls like this, we have let them down too many
0:32:23 > 0:32:27times. Well done, Lucy Allen for supporting these victims. My Salim
0:32:27 > 0:32:31says there is an amazing lady on your programme today talking about
0:32:31 > 0:32:37the horrific abuse she suffered in Telford.
0:32:38 > 0:32:43Telford. -- Marceline says. Ian says, this is terrible, it frightens
0:32:43 > 0:32:48me and I'm a grown man. One of them for making this a serious topic of
0:32:48 > 0:32:55discussion. The PC brigade would condemn me. Stephen says, as a
0:32:55 > 0:32:59parent I cannot fathom how the parents had no idea what was going
0:32:59 > 0:33:04on, they could not see anything was going on with their child. We will
0:33:04 > 0:33:10see what happens. You will continue to call for a public enquiry. Thank
0:33:10 > 0:33:12you to you all.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14Still to come...
0:33:14 > 0:33:17One of the biggest names in British television tells us why he's trying
0:33:17 > 0:33:20to sue Lloyds Banking Group for more than £60 million.
0:33:20 > 0:33:23And we'll have the very latest from the High Court,
0:33:23 > 0:33:26where two victims of the taxi driver rapist John Worboys are due
0:33:26 > 0:33:34to challenge the decision to release him from prison.
0:33:35 > 0:33:37Time for the latest news, here's Ben Brown
0:33:37 > 0:33:39with the BBC News headlines this morning.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42The Cabinet is meeting about now to discuss the midnight deadline
0:33:42 > 0:33:45for the Kremlin to explain how a nerve agent -
0:33:45 > 0:33:47developed in the Soviet Union - was used to attack a former
0:33:47 > 0:33:50Russian spy in Salisbury.
0:33:50 > 0:33:54The poison used in the attack on Sergei Skripal in Salisbury
0:33:54 > 0:34:01was a military-grade nerve agent, part of a group known as Novichok.
0:34:03 > 0:34:05Theresa May has promised to retaliate if Moscow's
0:34:05 > 0:34:06response isn't satisfactory.
0:34:06 > 0:34:08Nato has issued a statement condemning the use of nerve agent
0:34:08 > 0:34:13and reiterating that the UK is a highly valued ally.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16One of the victims of grooming and rape in the Shropshire town
0:34:16 > 0:34:19of Telford has revealed details of her ordeal on
0:34:19 > 0:34:20the Victoria Derbyshire programme.
0:34:20 > 0:34:22The woman, speaking anonymously, says she was gang-raped
0:34:22 > 0:34:25and sold between men, and that her family was threatened
0:34:25 > 0:34:28if she refused to comply.
0:34:28 > 0:34:32She also said that the alarm was not raised by the health or police
0:34:32 > 0:34:33authorities despite repeated prescriptions for the morning
0:34:33 > 0:34:40after pill, and being seen in cars with much older men.
0:34:40 > 0:34:42The Chancellor, Philip Hammond, is expected to deliver some positive
0:34:42 > 0:34:49economic news in his first ever Spring Statement today.
0:34:49 > 0:34:51The statement, which replaces the Spring Budget, will include
0:34:51 > 0:34:55the latest official economic figures but it will not impose new taxes.
0:34:55 > 0:35:03Labour ministers say Mr Hammond must take the chance to end austerity.
0:35:06 > 0:35:09Some reports say they will be an effort to reduce pressure on the
0:35:09 > 0:35:10NHS.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12The European Parliament meets in Strasbourg later to debate
0:35:12 > 0:35:13the EU's guidelines on Brexit.
0:35:13 > 0:35:15After a speech from the European Commission President,
0:35:15 > 0:35:19Jean-Claude Juncker, MEPs will discuss the guidelines,
0:35:19 > 0:35:22as well as their own resolution, which outlines the parliament's
0:35:22 > 0:35:25priorities and so-called "red lines" for the Brexit negotiations.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27Two victims of black cab rapist John Worboys begin
0:35:27 > 0:35:30a High Court challenge today against what they have called
0:35:30 > 0:35:34the irrational decision to release him from jail.
0:35:34 > 0:35:37The judicial review is expected to hear for the first time why
0:35:37 > 0:35:40the Parole Board plans to free the sex attacker.
0:35:40 > 0:35:42The board and Worboys, who will appear via video
0:35:42 > 0:35:47link from prison, oppose the legal challenge.
0:35:47 > 0:35:50The former Liverpool and England defender Jamie Carragher says
0:35:50 > 0:35:53he'll accept any punishment that comes his way after he was filmed
0:35:53 > 0:35:57spitting from his car towards another vehicle.
0:35:57 > 0:35:59It happened after Manchester United's 2-1 win over Liverpool
0:35:59 > 0:36:02where he was working as a pundit for Sky Sports.
0:36:02 > 0:36:10He's been suspended from his job.
0:36:10 > 0:36:18That's a summary of the latest BBC News.
0:36:18 > 0:36:23Some messages from people who were watching Holly speak. I'm watching
0:36:23 > 0:36:26your programme and as a grown man with teenage daughters I'm almost in
0:36:26 > 0:36:31tears listening to her story. Yet another shocking, disgusting sexual
0:36:31 > 0:36:34abuse story. The grooming and rape of hundreds of young girls by much
0:36:34 > 0:36:39Bachasson amen. It's hard to believe this goes on in this country, I'm
0:36:39 > 0:36:44almost embarrassed to be a man. Another tweet, a brave victim who
0:36:44 > 0:36:49has recanted the abuse she went through. Alice says, incredible
0:36:49 > 0:36:51bravery in such an important conversation on your programme.
0:36:51 > 0:36:55Something needs to change in how we protect vulnerable young people in
0:36:55 > 0:36:57society. Tanya says, I'm horrified by what
0:36:57 > 0:37:01I'm listening to, the evidence around sexual abuse ignored for so
0:37:01 > 0:37:06long and so horrendously prevalent. And this text from George, I know
0:37:06 > 0:37:09the three families whose children were abused, then murdered in
0:37:09 > 0:37:14Telford. They didn't want to cause any race problems, and they were
0:37:14 > 0:37:18told that. Thank you for those, do keep them
0:37:18 > 0:37:24coming. Here is the latest sport. Britain's Menna Fitzpatrick and her
0:37:24 > 0:37:28guide Jen Kehoe have won silver at the Winter Paralympics in the
0:37:28 > 0:37:31women's visually impaired super combined and Ben. Millie Knight
0:37:31 > 0:37:35missed out on a third straight medal with Brett Wild.
0:37:35 > 0:37:40They were for. Two goals from David Silva helped Manchester City to a
0:37:40 > 0:37:43win at Stoke last night, Pep Guardiola's team in a 16 point lead
0:37:43 > 0:37:46in the Premier League so they could win the title against Manchester
0:37:46 > 0:37:51United at the Etihad next month. Southampton have sacked Murray to
0:37:51 > 0:37:56Pellegrino after just one win in 17 league games. Is the ninth Premier
0:37:56 > 0:37:59League boss to lose his job this season. Marco Silva is the favourite
0:37:59 > 0:38:03to take charge. Serena Williams says she has a long
0:38:03 > 0:38:07way to go in her comeback after the birth of our child following defeat
0:38:07 > 0:38:10against her sister Venus. I will have more for you at ten.
0:38:10 > 0:38:14Noel Edmonds, face of BBC Saturday night TV for decades and then Deal
0:38:14 > 0:38:16or No Deal on Channel 4, says he was almost left bankrupt
0:38:16 > 0:38:21after falling victim to a multi million pound fraud at Lloyds.
0:38:21 > 0:38:26He's seeking £60 million in compensation over losses
0:38:26 > 0:38:30he claims he suffered when his former business,
0:38:30 > 0:38:33Unique Group, collapsed.
0:38:33 > 0:38:36The £245 million loans scandal at Halifax Bank of Scotland,
0:38:36 > 0:38:38which was later bought by Lloyds, saw several men jailed
0:38:38 > 0:38:41for their part in the scandal with the bankers being dubbed
0:38:41 > 0:38:44the British Wolves of Wall Street.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47Lloyds have previously disputed Noel Edmonds' claim that the fraud
0:38:47 > 0:38:50caused his business to collapse.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53Now in an exclusive interview Noel Edmonds tells us he was left
0:38:53 > 0:38:55suicidal and at rock bottom after the losses.
0:38:55 > 0:39:01He joins us now.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06Good morning, how are you?And very good, it's a great pleasure.How
0:39:06 > 0:39:11have you worked out it is sitting knowing you need back? It such a lot
0:39:11 > 0:39:15of money to bail it is a huge amount. It was independently
0:39:15 > 0:39:19assessed by a highly respected accountancy firm.They are experts
0:39:19 > 0:39:24in forensic accountancy. There were stories in the press it was 300
0:39:24 > 0:39:29million, etc. The figure has been assessed at about 60 million. The
0:39:29 > 0:39:34businesses that were destroyed would have been worth that amount of
0:39:34 > 0:39:39money.How did it collapse? Actually, I am one of many, many
0:39:39 > 0:39:45victims in this country. I find myself as a reluctant People's
0:39:45 > 0:39:49Champion. This started a year ago when those people went to prison and
0:39:49 > 0:39:54I realise one of those people was my bank manager. I previously thought,
0:39:54 > 0:39:58I must have been rubbish business. But then it became very clear, this
0:39:58 > 0:40:04is a common thing with victims, suddenly a light goes on and you go,
0:40:04 > 0:40:08actually, my farm was taken away for this reason or I lost my garage for
0:40:08 > 0:40:12this reason. We are talking about thousands of people, maybe tens of
0:40:12 > 0:40:20thousands, not the 60 or so that Lloyds Banking Group claim. And
0:40:20 > 0:40:24basically, SMEs were targeted for their assets. OK, the people that
0:40:24 > 0:40:29went to prison took that policy to extremes. But unfortunately, it is a
0:40:29 > 0:40:33policy that has been prevalent throughout British banking for many,
0:40:33 > 0:40:39many years. It does go back to the 1990s, and the banks saw a way of
0:40:39 > 0:40:41boosting their balance sheets by acquiring the assets of businesses,
0:40:41 > 0:40:46and in my case Mark Unique Group had some great assets, and we were not
0:40:46 > 0:40:52able to realise the value of those assets, which meant that basically
0:40:52 > 0:40:57we were forced into administration, the bank came after me for money
0:40:57 > 0:41:01under my personal guarantees, which forced me to the edge of bankruptcy.
0:41:01 > 0:41:05And it had a huge impact on you personally, tell the audience a
0:41:05 > 0:41:10little about that.Well, a massive impact. It was an incredibly
0:41:10 > 0:41:16stressful time, that is a real understatement, because I am either
0:41:16 > 0:41:20by nature or nurture a very positive person but last year I decided I
0:41:20 > 0:41:24might be able to benefit other people if I said, yes, I tried to
0:41:24 > 0:41:33take my life. The reaction to that has been, um, humbling. I was
0:41:33 > 0:41:36delighted with the reaction from the Samaritans, who have supported for
0:41:36 > 0:41:40many years, and I'm pleased to say there are individuals who I am now
0:41:40 > 0:41:44still regularly in contact with, who attributed the fact they did not
0:41:44 > 0:41:47take their lives to the fact they heard the bloke of the telly had
0:41:47 > 0:41:54been driven into that dark space. Never being judgmental about someone
0:41:54 > 0:41:57who attempts to take your life because until you have been in that
0:41:57 > 0:42:00space you cannot know how bad it is. And we have an epidemic of suicide
0:42:00 > 0:42:09in this country. It is particularly men. They always want to be seen to
0:42:09 > 0:42:13be strong, to be providing for the family, and suddenly you are exposed
0:42:13 > 0:42:17as fallible to yourself and it takes you to a very dark place.And what
0:42:17 > 0:42:25about the impact on those around you?It was huge, devastating for in
0:42:25 > 0:42:29all of this, with the failure of Unique Group, it's easy to forget,
0:42:29 > 0:42:33but I didn't forget that over 70 people lost their jobs, they had to
0:42:33 > 0:42:40be told they were going to be made redundant, that impacts on to many
0:42:40 > 0:42:43other people in their social circles and in their family. It was a
0:42:43 > 0:42:49horrendous period in my life. And at the time, I just thought that I was
0:42:49 > 0:42:54rubbish at business, my Chief Executive thought the same thing.
0:42:54 > 0:43:00Then suddenly, we realise we are part of a cold, calculating plan to
0:43:00 > 0:43:04destroy the business. That's why I'm taking legal action against Lloyds
0:43:04 > 0:43:07Banking Group because I've tried to negotiate with them, but as with so
0:43:07 > 0:43:12many of the other victims, they say one thing in public, but in private,
0:43:12 > 0:43:16they have a different agenda.They said they have tried mediation had
0:43:16 > 0:43:22offered you composition but it's not enough?I had an independent review,
0:43:22 > 0:43:27which cannot be independent because they paid the professor, he's not a
0:43:27 > 0:43:31real professor and he doesn't have any qualifications.I don't know if
0:43:31 > 0:43:34that is true about his qualifications, I just need to say
0:43:34 > 0:43:38that. But I'm talking about the mediation. It is fair to say it
0:43:38 > 0:43:44wasn't enough?They put me into this review, which is not independent...
0:43:44 > 0:43:48Again, I don't know if it is independent or not.They describe it
0:43:48 > 0:43:52as independent. It is not transparent people have to sign
0:43:52 > 0:43:57gagging orders. Contrary to what their Chairman said last May, no-one
0:43:57 > 0:44:01is compensated for their losses. They give money for the distress.
0:44:01 > 0:44:05And of course, the people who are victims have to be honest and they
0:44:05 > 0:44:11have to say there are circumstances as part of filling out this form for
0:44:11 > 0:44:15the review. So, lawyers know that people are tough time so they are
0:44:15 > 0:44:19able to offer them the minimum amount of money. So they forced me
0:44:19 > 0:44:24into the review, we filed a 90 page statement of the losses, they
0:44:24 > 0:44:29immediately threw me out the review and said, we will go to mediation. I
0:44:29 > 0:44:34went to mediation with an astonishingly well qualified chap,
0:44:34 > 0:44:37wonderful man, and I went to negotiate and to settle. They didn't
0:44:37 > 0:44:44come for that.It wasn't enough, that's the bottom line?They started
0:44:44 > 0:44:47off with an insulting the money, they didn't even offer to give me
0:44:47 > 0:44:52back the money that they got through a corrupt High Court action. They
0:44:52 > 0:44:57offered me, in the end, after ten hours, £3.6 million, which I grant
0:44:57 > 0:45:01you is a massive amount of money, who wouldn't want that in their bank
0:45:01 > 0:45:07account cos but in the context of 60 million, I have stole from you £600,
0:45:07 > 0:45:15you are upset and I offer you £36 back.
0:45:15 > 0:45:21They wouldn't admit a crime was committed or that I was a victim and
0:45:21 > 0:45:26they fought me into a bad situation. The professor you have mentioned
0:45:26 > 0:45:30says he is independent, I am just going to say that...He can't be.
0:45:30 > 0:45:37Don't keep saying the same thing, he says he is.But he paid by Lloyds.
0:45:37 > 0:45:43I'm just saying what he says. Leslie says, go for it, you are
0:45:43 > 0:45:45representing people who have lost everything. Homes, businesses, and
0:45:45 > 0:45:53in some cases their livestock and I have been humbled by the -- in some
0:45:53 > 0:45:59cases their lives.I have been humbled by the response. This is not
0:45:59 > 0:46:03just about Lloyds, it is the whole financial sector, people who have
0:46:03 > 0:46:06lost everything and they don't have the litigation funding that I have
0:46:06 > 0:46:11secured. It was a massive moment for me when one of the biggest funders
0:46:11 > 0:46:14in the world said we have looked at your case and on merit, we will fund
0:46:14 > 0:46:21it.I have seen some estimates that you're worth £75 million, is that
0:46:21 > 0:46:29true?No.What are you worth, do you think?I've no idea, at the moment,
0:46:29 > 0:46:33very little, because until the funders came along, I was finding it
0:46:33 > 0:46:40myself. I'm determined to win this, and if my one legacy is that other
0:46:40 > 0:46:46people get justice, I will be satisfied.You said you are a
0:46:46 > 0:46:51positive person, and how does the positive side of your nature fit in
0:46:51 > 0:46:56with this battle against Lloyds?The moment I realised that I was the
0:46:56 > 0:47:02victim, of criminals, then I was able to put positive spin on it. And
0:47:02 > 0:47:10I do have the facts now. I've done a lot of work with people like Lord
0:47:10 > 0:47:14Cromwell, Vince Cable, the APPG on this. Unfortunately I do know an
0:47:14 > 0:47:16awful
0:47:16 > 0:47:19this. Unfortunately I do know an lots now about the way banks
0:47:19 > 0:47:24operating and I agree with the comment of the MPs in January at the
0:47:24 > 0:47:29APPG debate that there is systemic criminality and malpractice within
0:47:29 > 0:47:36British banks, principally RBS and Lloyds. And it's really upsetting,
0:47:36 > 0:47:40to realise this is a massive national scandal that has affected
0:47:40 > 0:47:44everyone in the country. We've had ten years of austerity because of a
0:47:44 > 0:47:51relatively small number of corrupt bankers.There is no evidence of
0:47:51 > 0:47:53systemic commonality, and going to read this statement from Lloyds if I
0:47:53 > 0:47:54may.
0:47:54 > 0:47:56"Lloyds Banking Group made determined efforts to reach
0:47:56 > 0:47:58a consensual resolution with Mr Edmonds through
0:47:58 > 0:48:00mediation late last year, but this was not possible.
0:48:00 > 0:48:03As a formal litigation process is now anticipated it would be
0:48:03 > 0:48:05inappropriate to comment other than to say his claim
0:48:05 > 0:48:07will be contested."
0:48:07 > 0:48:14They would say that. It's the Mandy Rice Davies comment.I know. You
0:48:14 > 0:48:23were diagnosed with prostate cancer. In 2013.And you believe, I think,
0:48:23 > 0:48:25that part of the stress of the business collapsing contributed to
0:48:25 > 0:48:32that?Yes, it is a scientific fact, medical fact, that stress can
0:48:32 > 0:48:37contribute to wide range of diseases. We have a health under
0:48:37 > 0:48:40their neck in the UK, is that anything to do with the very
0:48:40 > 0:48:44stressful -- we have health epidemic in the UK, is that to do with the
0:48:44 > 0:48:48stressful way we live our lives? The scientists say yes, it manifests in
0:48:48 > 0:48:53different ways but for me, when I got that diagnosis, I looked back
0:48:53 > 0:48:57and I thought, I know how this has come about. And I was determined
0:48:57 > 0:49:01from that awful moment when I had to tell Liz, I have cancer...Your
0:49:01 > 0:49:08wife's?Yes, I was determined I would come at it with a smile on my
0:49:08 > 0:49:12face, befriend my tumour, I even put it on my screen saver, that would
0:49:12 > 0:49:17not talk about attacking cancer, not talk about a war, I would just ask
0:49:17 > 0:49:23it to leave. And my consultant who gave me the treatment that
0:49:23 > 0:49:28thankfully worked and destroyed the tumour, he said he had never met
0:49:28 > 0:49:32such a positive person. He kept looking at my medical records
0:49:32 > 0:49:36saying, keep getting your date of birth wrong here, are you really?
0:49:36 > 0:49:41I'm 70 in December, he couldn't believe it. I do believe there is a
0:49:41 > 0:49:45direct link between your positive attitude to all sorts of things,
0:49:45 > 0:49:50whether it's Lloyds Banking Group or cancer, and the outcome.What kind
0:49:50 > 0:49:55of things would you say to your cancer, or a photograph of your
0:49:55 > 0:49:59tumour?I called it my little friend, and I would ask it to go
0:49:59 > 0:50:06away.In polite terms or did where? No, you have to befriend it.-- did
0:50:06 > 0:50:14you swear?No, you have to befriend it. I changed certain aspects of my
0:50:14 > 0:50:18diet, I am huge advocate of positive electromagnetism which I think has a
0:50:18 > 0:50:23positive role to play in a range of illnesses. This looks like a mobile
0:50:23 > 0:50:26phone, this is an app which I have subsequently developed and I want to
0:50:26 > 0:50:30make available to people free, which gives you post electromagnetism over
0:50:30 > 0:50:36time.You are criticised for two things around the issue of Cancer,
0:50:36 > 0:50:44one was the gadget, the yoga mat or the electromagnetic pad, which you
0:50:44 > 0:50:50suggested could help tackle cancer, tackle, being irrelevant word you
0:50:50 > 0:51:00use. And second you were criticised, someone tweeted you and said you
0:51:00 > 0:51:07were talking about quackery, and you said, scientific fact, disease is
0:51:07 > 0:51:11caused by negative energy, is it positive your ill health is caused
0:51:11 > 0:51:15by your negative attitude, do you regret that? Not at all. I regret
0:51:15 > 0:51:18the fact that he didn't answer the question.Why would you suggest that
0:51:18 > 0:51:26to someone?Because it is a scientific fact that negative energy
0:51:26 > 0:51:31causes disease and negative thoughts are part of that process.
0:51:31 > 0:51:36If you are face with a serious illness, you have come at it with a
0:51:36 > 0:51:39positive mental attitude. It changes the outcome and millions of doctors
0:51:39 > 0:51:43and scientists will tell you that. But don't you think it's a horrible
0:51:43 > 0:51:48thing to say to a cancer survivor?I think it was horrible, the way he
0:51:48 > 0:51:51started the dialogue.But I'm asking you about what you said to him.The
0:51:51 > 0:51:56any concession I will make is, I stopped doing quite a because I
0:51:56 > 0:52:01realised you cannot have a balanced debate through Twitter.Do not think
0:52:01 > 0:52:09it was horrible what you said to him?Nope, -- because I asked him a
0:52:09 > 0:52:12question. It is perfectly reasonable to ask if someone's negative
0:52:12 > 0:52:17attitude has contributed to the situation you find yourself in.Do
0:52:17 > 0:52:25you not think it would to a person? Possibly.Is that it?That chapter
0:52:25 > 0:52:32has gone. I'm very, very relaxed with the principle that if you want
0:52:32 > 0:52:36to tackle big problems in your life and serious disease, you have to
0:52:36 > 0:52:41come at it in a positive way. And there's a whole range of things you
0:52:41 > 0:52:46can do before you subject yourself to big Pharma and chemicals in your
0:52:46 > 0:52:51body, etc.Do you think all cancers can be caused by negative attitude?
0:52:51 > 0:53:01No.Which once?I don't know, I'm not a doctor.Exactly.The point
0:53:01 > 0:53:09you're making is? I don't know what the point is making.You suggested
0:53:09 > 0:53:13to one cancer survivor that his disease with down to his attitude.
0:53:13 > 0:53:18No, I ask a question. I was not doing a diagnosis, I was saying, is
0:53:18 > 0:53:21it possible? You could come at it the other way and say, somebody
0:53:21 > 0:53:26could come at it and think, that's a good point, and I in this situation
0:53:26 > 0:53:29because I have created a negative energy about my being? That could be
0:53:29 > 0:53:34a positive thing.And obviously you know that there are very positive
0:53:34 > 0:53:39people who get serious diseases who don't make it.Correct, my father
0:53:39 > 0:53:45being one.So it's not just about positive attitude?It's not binary.
0:53:45 > 0:53:50I do think we need to explore a lot more about the energy of the human
0:53:50 > 0:53:56body, and we need to understand, it's back to my FK oh, find out the
0:53:56 > 0:54:01facts, then gain the knowledge, then you are qualified to get an opinion.
0:54:01 > 0:54:05Let's got some messages for you. Everyone is behind you, says
0:54:05 > 0:54:09Christopher, in your legal battle, I hope you get your money back and
0:54:09 > 0:54:13fight for the little guy, good luck. Mohammed says, I must admit, such a
0:54:13 > 0:54:16good interview, I went through the same thing, I'm happy he's getting
0:54:16 > 0:54:22justice for what he's lost. I hope more get justice. Karen says, go for
0:54:22 > 0:54:26it, I'm sure hundreds of others are behind you and I hope you beat the
0:54:26 > 0:54:30big conglomerates. Chris, 60 million is just greed, he does need this
0:54:30 > 0:54:34money, he taking advantage, do you want to respond to that?-- he does
0:54:34 > 0:54:41not eat is money. It's back to facts, knowledge, opinion. I had my
0:54:41 > 0:54:47business is stolen for me, I never talked about competition. I and
0:54:47 > 0:54:53asking -- I'm giving the chance for compensation. They proposed nicking
0:54:53 > 0:55:00my car and giving the wheels back. There's another thought about that,
0:55:00 > 0:55:05but I will be polite.Hazel on Facebook says to me, you were very
0:55:05 > 0:55:11rude to ask in what he was worth.In the current BBC climate, for
0:55:11 > 0:55:14goodness' sake, you got to ask the question, even if I don't regard it
0:55:14 > 0:55:21of being worthy of an answer.Tracy says, these banks have destroyed
0:55:21 > 0:55:24people for way too long, especially Lloyds. Do you miss being on
0:55:24 > 0:55:34television?I thought we were on telly?A weekly show.No, I don't. I
0:55:34 > 0:55:38have had just the most wonderful career. It reaches the 50 year
0:55:38 > 0:55:43milestone in September, that's when I first started in radio. I'm in a
0:55:43 > 0:55:48building which I respect and appreciate, and at every
0:55:48 > 0:55:52opportunity, because there has been misrepresentation, I thank the BBC
0:55:52 > 0:55:58for 30 fantastic years of one full opportunity. I decided -- wonderful
0:55:58 > 0:56:03opportunity. I decided of my English and to concentrate my businesses
0:56:03 > 0:56:07which were then destroyed by HBOS and Lloyds, and I was saved by
0:56:07 > 0:56:14Channel 4 asking me to do Deal Or No Deal, I did ten years, 3000 shows,
0:56:14 > 0:56:18because of the tabloid world we live in, it was axed, but ten years of
0:56:18 > 0:56:24opening doctors is enough.If someone approached you with a format
0:56:24 > 0:56:28you like you would do it?Exacta, if someone came to me and said, here is
0:56:28 > 0:56:41something different, that's the key thing. I was so fortunate to be
0:56:41 > 0:56:48given the formats. I was a great, I wasn't in the class of Ronnie or Ken
0:56:48 > 0:56:53Dodd, I had great teams and great formats. I don't miss it.I'm not
0:56:53 > 0:56:58sure I believe you. But thank you for coming on the programme.But I
0:56:58 > 0:57:06lie to you?I don't know, but thank you for coming on.
0:57:06 > 0:57:13Good morning. What a day today, much better across England and Wells
0:57:13 > 0:57:16compared to yesterday and some of you seen big prisons, the skies
0:57:16 > 0:57:21overhead in Cornwall. -- England and Wales and some of you have seen big
0:57:21 > 0:57:27changes. Blue skies overhead in Cornwall. But there have been
0:57:27 > 0:57:33periods of rain, in the Wirral, for example. There is a weak weather
0:57:33 > 0:57:38front pushing across western areas from west to east, but you can see a
0:57:38 > 0:57:44swirl of cloud which board the cloud and rain yesterday that is moving
0:57:44 > 0:57:48towards northern Europe. Sunny conditions continue to work their
0:57:48 > 0:57:53way eastwards but we have got a line of showers north-west England to the
0:57:53 > 0:57:56Midlands, which will stretch towards the south-east in the afternoon.
0:57:56 > 0:58:02Eastern counties and the far north of Scotland will see showers but
0:58:02 > 0:58:06most places seeing good sunny spells. Winds are light,
0:58:06 > 0:58:12strengthening much sunshine, it will feel quite pleasant. Up the little
0:58:12 > 0:58:17bit on what we would normally expect at this time of year. One or two
0:58:17 > 0:58:20showers towards the south-east corner, but certainly if you are
0:58:20 > 0:58:23heading off to Cheltenham for the first day of the festival, you could
0:58:23 > 0:58:28not have picked a better day. The winds are light, the ground is soft
0:58:28 > 0:58:33underfoot, but sunny conditions to see the day. Clear whether across
0:58:33 > 0:58:41central and eastern parts, we could get down to -1 in Newcastle, but
0:58:41 > 0:58:45further west, more cloud and a strengthening breeze. Belfast and
0:58:45 > 0:58:49Plymouth, six or seven into the morning. The rain and drizzle art
0:58:49 > 0:58:56links to this low pressure to the west of us as we start tomorrow, the
0:58:56 > 0:59:00weather front will get close to us and it will drag up some mild air
0:59:00 > 0:59:05coming up from the south on strong to gale force south to
0:59:05 > 0:59:09south-easterly winds. The wind is strongest across the south and West,
0:59:09 > 0:59:13outbreaks of rain which will turn persistent across Ireland, West and
0:59:13 > 0:59:17Wales and Cornwall later on. Occasional rain in western Scotland
0:59:17 > 0:59:24but dry for a lot of time across Scotland, eastern Wales and England.
0:59:24 > 0:59:27Hazy sunshine in eastern areas and we could get to 15 degrees in the
0:59:27 > 0:59:32south-east. Wednesday night, the cloud and rain pushes across other
0:59:32 > 0:59:35parts of Wales and southern England, heavy bursts to take us into
0:59:35 > 0:59:40Thursday morning. Doesn't make too much in the way of inroads further
0:59:40 > 0:59:43north before the area of low pressure gets shoved back into the
0:59:43 > 0:59:51Atlantic as high-pressure built across South -- Scandinavia, cold
0:59:51 > 0:59:56air on its way back. Cold and windy with the increasing chance of some
0:59:56 > 0:59:59snow showers as well. We will keep you updated.
1:00:03 > 1:00:09Good morning, it is Victoria Park Russia, welcome to our programme.
1:00:09 > 1:00:10Our top story today...
1:00:10 > 1:00:12How do you deal with Russia?
1:00:12 > 1:00:16Moscow has until the end of the day to explain why a Russian-made
1:00:16 > 1:00:18nerve agent was used to poison a former spy and his daughter.
1:00:18 > 1:00:21Should there be no credible response, we will conclude that this
1:00:21 > 1:00:24action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state
1:00:24 > 1:00:26against the United Kingdom and we will not tolerate such
1:00:26 > 1:00:33a brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil.
1:00:33 > 1:00:36As the pressure mounts for Russia to respond,
1:00:36 > 1:00:37we'll discuss the growing calls for England to boycott
1:00:37 > 1:00:45the World Cup.
1:00:47 > 1:00:51Permit will call for a national enquiry into the abuse scandal in
1:00:51 > 1:00:53Telford. -- Parliament will call.
1:00:53 > 1:00:57I'd be being sold maybe two or three times a night, to the people who
1:00:57 > 1:00:59would pay for the girls in Telford.
1:00:59 > 1:01:00Men of every race, religion coming in there
1:01:00 > 1:01:05and wanting to pay for girls.
1:01:05 > 1:01:08We'll also get reaction from a senior lawyer who played
1:01:08 > 1:01:10a key role in the Rochdale and Rotherham abuse scandals,
1:01:10 > 1:01:13and from a group set up to tackle sexual grooming in the UK.
1:01:13 > 1:01:16And one of the biggest names in British TV, Noel Edmonds,
1:01:16 > 1:01:18tells us why he's trying to sue Lloyds Banking Group
1:01:18 > 1:01:25for over £60 million.
1:01:25 > 1:01:29It was an incredibly stressful time. That is a real understatement. Yes,
1:01:29 > 1:01:32I tried to take my life.
1:01:39 > 1:01:42Good morning. Here is the latest news.
1:01:42 > 1:01:45The Cabinet is meeting about now to discuss the midnight deadline
1:01:45 > 1:01:47for the Kremlin to explain how a nerve agent,
1:01:47 > 1:01:50developed in the Soviet Union, was used to attack a former
1:01:50 > 1:01:53Russian spy in Salisbury.
1:01:58 > 1:02:03Is the UK preparing to strike hard against Russia?Boris Johnson has
1:02:03 > 1:02:07said if Russia cannot come up with a convincing explanation of why the
1:02:07 > 1:02:11nerve agent was used in Salisbury, the Government will be announcing
1:02:11 > 1:02:15the UK's response tomorrow. Mr Johnson said he was encouraged by
1:02:15 > 1:02:19the report that Britain has received from his French, German and American
1:02:19 > 1:02:24counterparts.I've been very encouraged so far by the strength of
1:02:24 > 1:02:29the support we are getting. I think in particular from President Macron
1:02:29 > 1:02:35of France, and my German counterpart, and from Washington.
1:02:35 > 1:02:41Rex Tillerson last night made it absolutely clear that he sees this
1:02:41 > 1:02:46as part of the pattern of disruptive behaviour, increasingly destructive
1:02:46 > 1:02:52and malign behaviour by Russia. The reckless use of chemical weapons and
1:02:52 > 1:02:55support for the reckless use of chemical weapons that stretches from
1:02:55 > 1:03:02Syria now to the streets of Salisbury. And I've been encouraged
1:03:02 > 1:03:08by the willingness of our friends to show support and solidarity.
1:03:08 > 1:03:11More details are beginning to emerge of the allegations of abuse over
1:03:11 > 1:03:14four decades against girls in the Shropshire town of Telford.
1:03:14 > 1:03:17Up to a thousand girls are reported to have been groomed and exploited -
1:03:17 > 1:03:22with some as young as 11 being drugged and raped.
1:03:22 > 1:03:27One victim, who was 14 when the abuse began, spoke anonymously to
1:03:27 > 1:03:30reveal she was repeatedly raped and sold between men and that her family
1:03:30 > 1:03:36were threatened if she refused to comply.
1:03:36 > 1:03:41I was gang-raped just after I turned 16. That is probably the worst thing
1:03:41 > 1:03:46that ever happened.
1:03:46 > 1:03:49that ever happened. Sorry...You don't need to apologise.And after
1:03:49 > 1:03:57that, I tried to commit suicide. I genuinely wanted to die because I
1:03:57 > 1:04:00thought that was the only way out.
1:04:00 > 1:04:03The Chancellor, Philip Hammond, is expected to deliver some positive
1:04:03 > 1:04:06economic news in his first ever Spring Statement today.
1:04:06 > 1:04:09The statement, which replaces the Spring Budget, will include
1:04:09 > 1:04:13the latest official economic figures but it will not impose new taxes.
1:04:13 > 1:04:19Labour ministers say Mr Hammond must take the chance to end austerity.
1:04:19 > 1:04:22The European Parliament meets in Strasbourg later to debate
1:04:22 > 1:04:24the EU's guidelines on Brexit.
1:04:24 > 1:04:26After a speech from the European Commission President,
1:04:26 > 1:04:30Jean-Claude Juncker, MEPs will discuss the guidelines,
1:04:30 > 1:04:32as well as their own resolution, which outlines the parliament's
1:04:32 > 1:04:40priorities and so-called "red lines" for the Brexit negotiations.
1:04:42 > 1:04:45Salt content in takeaway dishes must be urgently reduced in a bid
1:04:45 > 1:04:48to tackle strokes and heart disease, campaigners have warned.
1:04:48 > 1:04:52A study by Action on Salt found some Chinese meals including sides
1:04:52 > 1:04:54like prawn crackers contain more than double
1:04:54 > 1:04:57the recommended daily intake.
1:04:57 > 1:05:03The survey also revealed a selection of ready meals were high in salt.
1:05:03 > 1:05:05That's a summary of the latest BBC News.
1:05:05 > 1:05:11I'll have more at 10:30.
1:05:11 > 1:05:18Thank you, if you are getting in touch, you are very welcome.
1:05:18 > 1:05:25Let me read you some messages from you about knowledge plans. Luis
1:05:25 > 1:05:29says, Noel Edmonds is infuriating me. I am a cancer nurse. How
1:05:29 > 1:05:33insulting is his attitude with regards to positive attitude and
1:05:33 > 1:05:38cancer? Heather says, I'm disgusted by the way Victoria dealt with Noel
1:05:38 > 1:05:41Edmonds, came across as rude and unprofessional. I've never
1:05:41 > 1:05:45experienced anything quite like it. Another tweet from Phil, it is not a
1:05:45 > 1:05:50fact that negative energy causes disease. Negative energy is not
1:05:50 > 1:05:54itself a scientific fact. Sue says Noel Edmonds is being offensive on
1:05:54 > 1:06:00cancer. To suggest that someone's attitude is causing damage to them
1:06:00 > 1:06:03is infuriating. Dave says I'm surprised than disappointing at your
1:06:03 > 1:06:07hostile tone of questioning. You seemed to be showing your own
1:06:07 > 1:06:14prejudices as regards his cancer treatment. Boris Zazai hole at -- I
1:06:14 > 1:06:18wholeheartedly support his assertion that the positive attitude
1:06:18 > 1:06:21contributes. Hypnotherapy steered me in the right direction. Thank you
1:06:21 > 1:06:32for that, do keep them coming in. Right, the sport now and Will back.
1:06:32 > 1:06:34Britain's Menna Fitzpatrick and guide Jen Kehoe have won silver
1:06:34 > 1:06:36at the Winter Paralympics this morning in the women's visually
1:06:36 > 1:06:37impaired super combined event.
1:06:37 > 1:06:39The pair were second after the super-G run
1:06:39 > 1:06:42and despite an impressive slalom effort, they were unable to get
1:06:42 > 1:06:43the better of the Slovakians.
1:06:43 > 1:06:46Fitzpatrick is just 19, she was born no vision in her left
1:06:46 > 1:06:49eye and limited sight in her right, but started skiing aged five.
1:06:49 > 1:06:52They only started working together in 2015 and have built up
1:06:52 > 1:06:53a solid partnership.
1:06:53 > 1:06:55Fellow Briton Millie Knight missed out on a third straight
1:06:55 > 1:06:57medal with Brett Wild, they were fourth after
1:06:57 > 1:07:04a disappointing slalom.
1:07:04 > 1:07:06Two goals from David Silva helps Manchester City
1:07:06 > 1:07:07to a 2-0 win at Stoke.
1:07:07 > 1:07:09Pep Guardiola's side now have a 16 point lead.
1:07:09 > 1:07:11City need just two more wins for their third
1:07:11 > 1:07:13Premier League title.
1:07:13 > 1:07:16If they beat Everton at Goodison Park later this month,
1:07:16 > 1:07:18they could seal the title on derby day with a win over
1:07:18 > 1:07:21rivals Manchester United on the 7th of April.
1:07:21 > 1:07:22City Captain Vincent Kompany says it's
1:07:22 > 1:07:25"a once in a lifetime opportunity".
1:07:25 > 1:07:33Stoke remain a point from safety with eight games to go.
1:07:37 > 1:07:40The Cheltenham Festival gets under way this afternoon, more than a
1:07:40 > 1:07:44quarter of a million spectators are expected over from her days with
1:07:44 > 1:07:48bookmakers estimating after £350 million will be wagered. The Nicky
1:07:48 > 1:07:53Henderson trained horse will attempt to defend his title in the feature
1:07:53 > 1:07:57race. I will have the headlines at half-past.
1:07:57 > 1:08:00Telford is a large picturesque town in the West Midlands with
1:08:00 > 1:08:03a population of 170,000 people.
1:08:03 > 1:08:07But over a 40 year period it's been estimated that up to 1,000
1:08:07 > 1:08:09girls were abused by gangs of British Pakistani
1:08:09 > 1:08:17and Bangladeshi men.
1:08:17 > 1:08:19So far, only seven of them have been convicted.
1:08:19 > 1:08:22Now there are calls for a public inquiry into how the abuse
1:08:22 > 1:08:23went on for so long and whether authorities
1:08:23 > 1:08:25were too politically correct to properly address it.
1:08:25 > 1:08:28Holly Archer was abused from the age of 13,
1:08:28 > 1:08:31raped countless times, and sometimes forced to sleep
1:08:31 > 1:08:35with several men a night.
1:08:35 > 1:08:41She told us the impact it had on her.
1:08:41 > 1:08:52It quickly moved on to being sold, every single day. So, being sold two
1:08:52 > 1:08:58or three times a night.
1:08:58 > 1:09:01or three times a night. Taken to the thing I can only describe as a rape
1:09:01 > 1:09:04house, which was set up for the purpose of young girls being sold to
1:09:04 > 1:09:10men
1:09:10 > 1:09:21men will. It wasn't just Pakistani men, there were men of every race,
1:09:21 > 1:09:27religion, coming in and wanting to pay for girls.How did you cope with
1:09:27 > 1:09:36this?I can't really explain it. It was like I was living in a bubble. I
1:09:36 > 1:09:45had no feelings about anything. All I wanted to do was make my family
1:09:45 > 1:09:52proud of me. So I continued going to school, did my best, everything I
1:09:52 > 1:09:58could do to try and make something good bit for my family, because the
1:09:58 > 1:10:01reason I kept going back was they were threatening me with burning my
1:10:01 > 1:10:04house down, which was a real threat in Telford because that had actually
1:10:04 > 1:10:09happened to revisit. They would say to me they would rape my mother and
1:10:09 > 1:10:17sisters. They knew all about my family. There was just no escape at
1:10:17 > 1:10:19all.
1:10:19 > 1:10:21With us now is senior lawyer Nazir Afzal, who specialises
1:10:21 > 1:10:23in child sexual exploitation and played a key role
1:10:23 > 1:10:25in the Rochdale and Rotherham abuse scandals.
1:10:25 > 1:10:28Also Ansar Ali, spokesperson for Together Against Grooming.
1:10:28 > 1:10:31An organisation set up to tackle sexual grooming in the UK
1:10:31 > 1:10:38including working with mosques and Islamic centres.
1:10:38 > 1:10:45Welcome, both of you. How do you respond to what is being uncovered
1:10:45 > 1:10:50in Telford?It's no surprise. I prosecuted the Rochdale case seven
1:10:50 > 1:10:56years ago now, and I said then this was the tip of the iceberg, there
1:10:56 > 1:11:01were part of this country for this type of sexual abuse was taking
1:11:01 > 1:11:06place, the 30s have not recognised it, they lifted the stone then they
1:11:06 > 1:11:12would see it. -- the authorities is. I prosecuted the Telford original
1:11:12 > 1:11:16prosecution and I knew that this was a bigger issue not just in Telford
1:11:16 > 1:11:23but everywhere. But I still see stories like that of Holly, she has
1:11:23 > 1:11:29not been listened to or believed, the abuses have gained dost-mac the
1:11:29 > 1:11:31abuses have almost acted with impunity because they know the
1:11:31 > 1:11:35authorities will not do anything about it. She is one of probably
1:11:35 > 1:11:39thousands of young girls and Young Boys who are being abused in street
1:11:39 > 1:11:45grooming up-and-under country, and I am pretty sure Robbie you look, you
1:11:45 > 1:11:49will find this.You mean in every town and city across the country?
1:11:49 > 1:11:55Every town and city. There was a report which went as far as saying
1:11:55 > 1:12:03even every hamlet. But certainly anywhere where you find groups of
1:12:03 > 1:12:07men, you will find prejudices amongst them, they will abuse
1:12:07 > 1:12:10children.But you would like to think, would you not, from what we
1:12:10 > 1:12:16have learned from previous scandals, the authorities and the police,
1:12:16 > 1:12:18social workers, medical professionals, which treat those who
1:12:18 > 1:12:24are being exploited as victims now? You would hope so. The levels of
1:12:24 > 1:12:28training and expertise have improved. But you always hear in
1:12:28 > 1:12:32every serious case review, lessons have to be learned. Because people
1:12:32 > 1:12:36don't get it right first time. It comes down to confidence. These are
1:12:36 > 1:12:40difficult cases to prosecute and investigate, absolutely. But I think
1:12:40 > 1:12:44the lawyers and skills or there: but are not being utilised. It is also
1:12:44 > 1:12:48an impartial posterity, but we've lost some expertise and specialism
1:12:48 > 1:12:53in an area where we need expertise and specialism. But ultimately we
1:12:53 > 1:12:56need empathy. We need to understand these victims need something more
1:12:56 > 1:13:01than most victims, and they are not being given it.We've been told in
1:13:01 > 1:13:05the case of Telford that is not just white girls that were being
1:13:05 > 1:13:11exploited, but Asian young girls too. Have you heard the same
1:13:11 > 1:13:12exploited, but Asian young girls too. Have you heard the same?Not
1:13:12 > 1:13:17only have I heard that, not on is the anecdotal evidence, but
1:13:17 > 1:13:21actually, the most thorough examination, the recent study of
1:13:21 > 1:13:26this issue was done by the office of the Children's Commissioner, and
1:13:26 > 1:13:33that researched it back to 2013. That research, it said about a third
1:13:33 > 1:13:37of the victims were from a non-white background, black and minority
1:13:37 > 1:13:43ethnic background. Going back to 2013, when the Home Affairs
1:13:43 > 1:13:45Committee was taking evidence on this issue on one of the conclusions
1:13:45 > 1:13:51was that whilst official statistics, the proportion of the can to come
1:13:51 > 1:13:56from a non-white background is low, when they actually went out to the
1:13:56 > 1:13:59towns and cities and the agencies dealing with these issues on the
1:13:59 > 1:14:04ground, they got a totally different picture. So although the official
1:14:04 > 1:14:11statistics say the number of victims were goals but winner unofficially
1:14:11 > 1:14:13from anecdotal evidence and by research the road reality is
1:14:13 > 1:14:20different.Sorry, let me ask you, why have some Asian exploited and
1:14:20 > 1:14:26abused young girls?That is configured to question. I think a
1:14:26 > 1:14:32lot of these cases -- a complicated question, what you find is that
1:14:32 > 1:14:39there are links between these gangs who are involved in grooming young
1:14:39 > 1:14:44girls, and in crime. They have all been in criminal activity, they are
1:14:44 > 1:14:49involved in drugs, and they see this as a diversification of their
1:14:49 > 1:14:55activity. These gangs operate, they are not what you call classic,
1:14:55 > 1:15:00typical paedophiles. That is not their kind of motivation. Yes, they
1:15:00 > 1:15:05are sexual predators but I think it's more that they use these girls
1:15:05 > 1:15:10as a sexual commodity and it's about making money from them.Is there any
1:15:10 > 1:15:14link to their heritage or are they just criminals?I don't think there
1:15:14 > 1:15:20is a link to their heritage, because most people from the background do
1:15:20 > 1:15:26not commit these sort of acts. The vast majority find their actions
1:15:26 > 1:15:28reprehensible, from all communities including the community from which
1:15:28 > 1:15:36they originate. So I don't think that is the cause.
1:15:36 > 1:15:39A statement from the Home Office has cold the child sexual exploitation
1:15:39 > 1:15:42and national black, would you agree?
1:15:46 > 1:15:51-- a statement from the Home Office has called child sexual excitation
1:15:51 > 1:15:56and national threat, would you agree?Yes, we have two agree. We
1:15:56 > 1:16:00have had a number of studies in places like Oxford and Rotherham but
1:16:00 > 1:16:04the lessons are not being learned on a national basis. That's what we
1:16:04 > 1:16:13need to do, a and nationwide response.Thank you very much, both
1:16:13 > 1:16:18of you.
1:16:18 > 1:16:21of you. Thank keep your messages as well. Many of you want to comment on
1:16:21 > 1:16:25the young woman we spoke to at the beginning of our programme called
1:16:25 > 1:16:30Holly. We spoke to her anonymously, she did not wish to show her face,
1:16:30 > 1:16:33she was talking about the abuse and exploitation she experienced in
1:16:33 > 1:16:37Telford as a teenager, beginning from the age of 14. Adam says, my
1:16:37 > 1:16:40heart goes out to the brave young lady who spoke on her programme
1:16:40 > 1:16:45today. I am ashamed disgusted again of another sex scandal involving
1:16:45 > 1:16:53thousands of victims involving Pakistani men, I'm a bachelor of 50
1:16:53 > 1:16:58years, British-born Pakistani and once again I am wary of stepping
1:16:58 > 1:17:05outside my house, what people may think of me. This one says, how can
1:17:05 > 1:17:09this have happened, no one asked her about her abortions? Amanda says,
1:17:09 > 1:17:13how brave of this young woman to speak up, Theresa May you need to
1:17:13 > 1:17:20speak up now. There needs to be an inquiry, this one says, and this one
1:17:20 > 1:17:24says, these are crimes, need to be treated as such. Do the police need
1:17:24 > 1:17:32nor resources? Would rather we had a change of the law to make enablers
1:17:32 > 1:17:39as guilty as perpetrators, I am tired of men behaving like this.
1:17:39 > 1:17:41The Conservative Chancellor, Philip Hammond, will give his verdict
1:17:41 > 1:17:43on the nation's financial health in a couple of hours' time.
1:17:43 > 1:17:45It's known as the Spring Statement.
1:17:45 > 1:17:48We're expected to see "light at the end of the tunnel"
1:17:48 > 1:17:51on the amount of money the UK is in debt, but it won't be
1:17:51 > 1:17:52the end of austerity.
1:17:52 > 1:17:54Our political guru Norman Smith is in Westminster.
1:17:54 > 1:17:56It's been eight years now of austerity, just remind
1:17:56 > 1:17:59us where we're up to.
1:17:59 > 1:18:03Today is normally a big bananas day at Westminster, you look at
1:18:03 > 1:18:08previously Chancellor Gordon Brown and George Osborne, it used to be a
1:18:08 > 1:18:11mini budget, packed with tax announcement and spending
1:18:11 > 1:18:16commitments. Not so this time. It could be a bit of a damp squib. Who
1:18:16 > 1:18:21says so? The Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has already announced he is
1:18:21 > 1:18:25not being to making any big tax giveaway announcements, there are
1:18:25 > 1:18:28knocking to be any spending commitments, he will not have a red
1:18:28 > 1:18:33box. There will not be a drum roll before he gets up to deliver his
1:18:33 > 1:18:37statement, which has worked a number of people because for the first time
1:18:37 > 1:18:42in a long time we have a budget surplus. That is to say, each month
1:18:42 > 1:18:46we get more cash in in taxes that we pay out in various government
1:18:46 > 1:18:51expenditure. You have to go back until 2001, the last time we had a
1:18:51 > 1:18:59budget surplus. That has fuelled calls for an end to austerity. And
1:18:59 > 1:19:05end to the squeeze on public sector pay, trying to find more cash for
1:19:05 > 1:19:09social care and hospitals. Will the Chancellor end austerity? Almost
1:19:09 > 1:19:15certainly not. That's not just because he thinks today is not the
1:19:15 > 1:19:17moment to do it, today is just reporting on the state of the
1:19:17 > 1:19:27economy. But also because of our level of debt. Now, debt is all the
1:19:27 > 1:19:32bills we have accrued over previous decades for paying for everything
1:19:32 > 1:19:36from wars to hospitals to schools, you name it, and we have a humongous
1:19:36 > 1:19:44pile of debt. That's the O2 -- which we owe to banks and financial
1:19:44 > 1:19:51institutions. We
1:19:51 > 1:19:53institutions. We have £1.74 trillion, trillion, not billion.
1:19:53 > 1:19:59That is the amount of money at ten which we owe. -- outstanding which
1:19:59 > 1:20:06we owe. That's the equivalent of 64,000 pounds for every household in
1:20:06 > 1:20:12the country. Put it another way, if you look at the amount of money the
1:20:12 > 1:20:20UK generates, the percentage of that which is debt is 84%. That is a huge
1:20:20 > 1:20:24amount, and many economists think it's far too big and the danger is
1:20:24 > 1:20:28if you get into another economic downturn, that could creep up even
1:20:28 > 1:20:32higher. The fear is eventually the banks say, we are going to stop
1:20:32 > 1:20:36lending you money because you never pay it back. There's a second reason
1:20:36 > 1:20:41why Mr Hammond is not inclined to end austerity and that the deficit.
1:20:41 > 1:20:47That's the amount we spend above what we get in on a yearly basis,
1:20:47 > 1:20:51that includes the amount we owe on debt interest and we are still
1:20:51 > 1:20:57expected to owe around £40 billion. However, there is a plus to this and
1:20:57 > 1:21:00that is, over the past couple of months, the government has been in
1:21:00 > 1:21:04surplus. We have been getting more taxes in than we been putting money
1:21:04 > 1:21:11out. So there is enough tax to cover the government's daily costs. And I
1:21:11 > 1:21:16think what you'll hear from Mr Hammond today is a slightly more
1:21:16 > 1:21:19optimistic economic picture. So we'll talk about the fact that the
1:21:19 > 1:21:25government has now got enough taxes to cover daily costs, he'll will
1:21:25 > 1:21:30talk about the fact that growth might be revised up a little bit,
1:21:30 > 1:21:33productivity beginning to nudge upwards. But end of austerity, don't
1:21:33 > 1:21:39hold your breath. The Chancellor has talked about light at the end of the
1:21:39 > 1:21:43tunnel but this is the economic equivalent of the Mont blanc tunnel,
1:21:43 > 1:21:47it's going on for a long time and I think we have got a lot of this
1:21:47 > 1:21:51territory to come. -- a lot of austerity to come.
1:21:51 > 1:21:53Let's talk now to Labour's Shadow Treasury Minister MP Annaliese Dodds
1:21:53 > 1:21:56and Conservative MP Andrew Jones who is the party's vice chair
1:21:56 > 1:21:59for Business and a former treasury minister.
1:21:59 > 1:22:04Welcome, both of you. The Chancellor has nearly 4 billion to play with,
1:22:04 > 1:22:11should keep unfreeze the benefits and put money into part of the NHS
1:22:11 > 1:22:16which crumbling or give councils more money to social care?A
1:22:16 > 1:22:24balanced approach.What does that mean in real terms?Still focus on
1:22:24 > 1:22:28reducing debt but invest in public services. So next year we will see
1:22:28 > 1:22:33the innocent in the health service go up by £2.5 billion, is --
1:22:33 > 1:22:37investment in the health service, schools by 1.4 billion, defence 1
1:22:37 > 1:22:41billion, and we will see debt starts to fall as a percentage of GDP for
1:22:41 > 1:22:46the first time in 17 year.I can see you shaking your head in
1:22:46 > 1:22:50disagreement as Andrew Jones is speaking, why?This has not been a
1:22:50 > 1:22:54balanced approach. What we've seen under this government is positioned
1:22:54 > 1:23:00to cut taxes for the very best off people and corporations, giving away
1:23:00 > 1:23:0370 billion over the course of this Parliament and where they have paid
1:23:03 > 1:23:07for some of the deficit, it's been on the backs of public services,
1:23:07 > 1:23:12those nurses who have not seen a pay increase, teachers, and children's
1:23:12 > 1:23:16services and we are very worried that a third of children's services
1:23:16 > 1:23:21cannot even fill their legal responsibilities. This is not
1:23:21 > 1:23:24something that should be said about it, we're calling for the Chancellor
1:23:24 > 1:23:31to approach a different approach and reverse those tax cuts which are
1:23:31 > 1:23:35many benefits of the best off, reverse those and have the funding
1:23:35 > 1:23:39to support our children and communities.He will have heard that
1:23:39 > 1:23:43our political editor Laura Kuenssberg has heard that the
1:23:43 > 1:23:47Cabinet has discussed tax rises to fund an increase in NHS spending.
1:23:47 > 1:23:53Would that be to replace the Brexit windfall of 350 million for the NHS?
1:23:53 > 1:23:57I'm not party to cabinet conversations.All I can tell you...
1:23:57 > 1:24:03What do you think?All I can tell you is we are seeing an increased
1:24:03 > 1:24:07budget in the NHS next year...You know it's not enough, not one person
1:24:07 > 1:24:12says it enough who works in the NHS. Of course our NHS needs more cash,
1:24:12 > 1:24:20because we are seeing greater amounts of treatments being
1:24:20 > 1:24:26available.So give them more cash. We are. The whole point is getting
1:24:26 > 1:24:28the balance right, making sure we have enough money to invest in
1:24:28 > 1:24:33public services but keeping the economy strong.Our economy is
1:24:33 > 1:24:38fundamentally strong. We are the slowest growing G-7 economies.If
1:24:38 > 1:24:44you go back to 2010, we have been one of the fastest-growing.Right
1:24:44 > 1:24:47now, we are the slowest growing.You cannot take one data point, you have
1:24:47 > 1:24:53to go through the biggest picture. If you go back to 2010, the UK has
1:24:53 > 1:24:56been the fastest-growing or equal fastest-growing and at the same time
1:24:56 > 1:25:01we have created 3 million jobs and bridges and employment to an
1:25:01 > 1:25:07all-time low.The
1:25:07 > 1:25:10all-time low.The surplus is a good thing and we would not have that
1:25:10 > 1:25:13without the Conservatives, do you acknowledge that?I don't, it has
1:25:13 > 1:25:20taken as much longer to get this a Nessie had a different approach. The
1:25:20 > 1:25:23government has had to abandon previous targets for deficit
1:25:23 > 1:25:28elimination and a big reason is because it has not sorted out the
1:25:28 > 1:25:31long-term problems in the UK economy which means that we have less tax
1:25:31 > 1:25:36revenue coming in. The office for budget responsibility, the
1:25:36 > 1:25:40independent watchdog, it revised down its forecast for the UK's
1:25:40 > 1:25:44economic roast because we have a huge productivity problem, more of a
1:25:44 > 1:25:49productivity problem than copper bowl countries in a similar --
1:25:49 > 1:25:54comparable countries in similar positions. We don't have enough
1:25:54 > 1:25:57investment, lowest public sector and private sector investment of all can
1:25:57 > 1:26:02parable countries at the moment. We don't have enough money going into
1:26:02 > 1:26:06education, we will have falling levels of funding per pupil in
1:26:06 > 1:26:11education for many years for the first time from this government and
1:26:11 > 1:26:18a cut into further education. This government has decided it will
1:26:18 > 1:26:22eliminate the deficit, but at the same time, if tax cuts to the best
1:26:22 > 1:26:26off and that has not worked.I have to reject that, can't accept that
1:26:26 > 1:26:34comment.OK, thank you.Andrew Jones and shadow Treasury Minister
1:26:34 > 1:26:36Annelise Dodds.
1:26:36 > 1:26:39Three judges at the High Court will hear the start of a legal challenge
1:26:39 > 1:26:42today against the Parole Board's decision to grant the release
1:26:42 > 1:26:44of the serial sex offender, John Worboys, who police suspect
1:26:44 > 1:26:47attacked more than 100 women.
1:26:47 > 1:26:50The former black cab driver, who's changed his name to John Radford,
1:26:50 > 1:26:52has spent more than ten years in prison.
1:26:52 > 1:26:55Lawyers for two of his victims are expected to argue
1:26:55 > 1:27:00that the Board's decision was irrational and it should have
1:27:00 > 1:27:02taken a more cautious approach.
1:27:02 > 1:27:04It's the first time a parole board's decision has been reconsidered
1:27:04 > 1:27:07in a judicial review.
1:27:07 > 1:27:10One of the women involved in the case, who we called Fiona,
1:27:10 > 1:27:13spoke exclusively with us earlier this year.
1:27:13 > 1:27:16She told us how she thought he was a danger to other women
1:27:16 > 1:27:18and she also described what it was like facing
1:27:18 > 1:27:21Worboys in court as part of the legal process.
1:27:21 > 1:27:22When he first walked through the doors,
1:27:22 > 1:27:27I was just struck by, "Oh, my God, he's pathetic.
1:27:27 > 1:27:33He's a pathetic old man".
1:27:33 > 1:27:35He was all hunched over, and wringing in his hands.
1:27:35 > 1:27:37He's talking, and he's talking just above a whisper.
1:27:37 > 1:27:41But a couple of times he looked at me and I saw his eyes
1:27:41 > 1:27:42and do you know what?
1:27:42 > 1:27:46He hasn't changed one bit, because every woman that got in that
1:27:46 > 1:27:48cab reported that the reason they accepted that drink
1:27:48 > 1:27:51was because they felt sorry for him because he was pathetic.
1:27:51 > 1:27:53It was an act.
1:27:53 > 1:27:56And I do believe him going into court was still an act
1:27:56 > 1:28:01because I saw his eyes and he's still capable of what he was doing
1:28:01 > 1:28:04years ago, absolutely still capable.
1:28:04 > 1:28:09And I will keep fighting.
1:28:09 > 1:28:12I will do whatever it takes to keep him behind bars
1:28:12 > 1:28:15because that is the only way women will be protected from him,
1:28:15 > 1:28:16is if he's behind bars.
1:28:16 > 1:28:19No licence conditions can watch him 24/7.
1:28:19 > 1:28:22So you're adamant that he is still a danger to women?
1:28:22 > 1:28:24As far as I'm concerned, he is still a danger.
1:28:24 > 1:28:27I'm not worried about what he can do to me, because there's nothing
1:28:27 > 1:28:31more he can do to me.
1:28:31 > 1:28:36But I don't want to go back to 2003 and watching the news again,
1:28:36 > 1:28:39waiting for him to reoffend, and I know he will reoffend.
1:28:39 > 1:28:43I don't want to be in that position again where I say, "I was right -
1:28:43 > 1:28:46I told you he will do this again," because he will.
1:28:46 > 1:28:48He will absolutely do it again and we need
1:28:48 > 1:28:51to protect women from him.
1:28:51 > 1:28:54Let's talk now to Adam Wagner, who is a human rights
1:28:54 > 1:28:57barrister and has sat in parole board hearings.
1:28:57 > 1:28:59Sarah Green is co-director of the lobby group End
1:28:59 > 1:29:03Violence Against Women.
1:29:03 > 1:29:05Ian Lawrence is from NAPO, the trade union that
1:29:05 > 1:29:10represents probation workers.
1:29:11 > 1:29:14Give our audience and insight into what it's like those hearings.A
1:29:14 > 1:29:18parole board hearing is like a court hearing, it might take place in in a
1:29:18 > 1:29:25prison but you will have, there's only one question the parole board
1:29:25 > 1:29:28needs to answer, if this person safe to be released into the public? They
1:29:28 > 1:29:38will have evidence written and oral, so people there in person, from a
1:29:38 > 1:29:41psychiatrist and a probation officer, potentially evidence from
1:29:41 > 1:29:44victims, and they will make a decision based on all that evidence,
1:29:44 > 1:29:48whether this person is safe to be released or not.How can you know
1:29:48 > 1:29:52that? They are looking at future risk, that's difficult to pin down.
1:29:52 > 1:30:00That's the tasks that they have achieve. And it's a very difficult
1:30:00 > 1:30:03decision. In my experience of the parole board, one of the surprising
1:30:03 > 1:30:08things about this case, is that they are incredibly cautious. If there's
1:30:08 > 1:30:14any kind of a hint of a continuing risk, they tend to release. So I was
1:30:14 > 1:30:18surprised -- they tend to not release. So I was surprised to hear
1:30:18 > 1:30:23about this.How important is it we have tried fancy about the decisions
1:30:23 > 1:30:29of the parole board?The parole board needs opening up, it needs
1:30:29 > 1:30:32transparency.They are following the law in terms of keeping it secret.
1:30:32 > 1:30:36It would be a law change needed by MPs.There has been some thought
1:30:36 > 1:30:41into that
1:30:42 > 1:30:46into that secrecy, so there is not mob rule saying you should stay in
1:30:46 > 1:30:54prison. So for us that our judgment around making judgments of risk in
1:30:54 > 1:30:57sexual offenders, because knowledge of sexual offenders are quite poor.
1:30:57 > 1:31:02They are not researched as a group, we do not know what drives them and
1:31:02 > 1:31:06the different groups of sex offenders. So it's difficult to
1:31:06 > 1:31:15properly assess risk of likelihood of future offending. We do know that
1:31:15 > 1:31:18people who have offended multiple times, police have said that for
1:31:18 > 1:31:22John Worboys there were more than 100 offences in all likelihood,
1:31:22 > 1:31:30people have held deeply misogynistic attitude and predatory towards women
1:31:30 > 1:31:35and very capable of lying, he was. The woman in your clip talked about
1:31:35 > 1:31:39his way of being able to put on a good act, the trait himself as
1:31:39 > 1:31:44something that he is not.You believe that opening up the parole
1:31:44 > 1:31:49board process could lead to trial by media?It is a concern, I sympathise
1:31:49 > 1:31:54massively about some of the comments made about better transparency and
1:31:54 > 1:32:01support for victims, and this thing is. This is a high profile case,
1:32:01 > 1:32:05understandably, for reasons we know. There is a concern that the process
1:32:05 > 1:32:10could become flawed if there was a trial by media element.It could be
1:32:10 > 1:32:16flawed without transparency? The system resists, there is a High
1:32:16 > 1:32:22Court. Victims were not consulted, the head of the parole board said,
1:32:22 > 1:32:26victims can have said in licence conditions, they can make a written
1:32:26 > 1:32:30statement, attend the start of hearing to read their statement in
1:32:30 > 1:32:33person or say nothing but in this case they were not consulted, does
1:32:33 > 1:32:37that seem wrong you?Those who signed up to victim support scheme
1:32:37 > 1:32:40should have been consulted and I believe an independent report said
1:32:40 > 1:32:46it should have happened. People who were not in the scheme and were not
1:32:46 > 1:32:51notified about the release, that needs to be looked at. As far as
1:32:51 > 1:32:58under -- I understand it, the probation ministers have given this
1:32:58 > 1:33:04a clean bill of health.
1:33:04 > 1:33:08a clean bill of health.In terms of what happens over the next few
1:33:08 > 1:33:12hours, the lawyers have been told the reasons, the explanation of the
1:33:12 > 1:33:17parole board's decision in wanting to release John Worboys. They say
1:33:17 > 1:33:23that strengthens their belief in the fact that the process went wrong.I
1:33:23 > 1:33:27think you will find out now because we are in "But it proves the point
1:33:27 > 1:33:32about openness. We're getting a sense that how this decision has
1:33:32 > 1:33:37been made. It happens by chance, they had a very good lawyers, they
1:33:37 > 1:33:42had crowdfunding, it was a very high profile case. But in the vast
1:33:42 > 1:33:49majority of cases, the victims have no idea especially victims who have
1:33:49 > 1:33:53been convicted of offences and potential victims, so I think the
1:33:53 > 1:33:57argument that this should be opened up is quite strong. I think the
1:33:57 > 1:34:08parole board themselves are interested as well.What are the
1:34:08 > 1:34:13most what are the most Draconian conditions, for someone like his
1:34:13 > 1:34:20crimes, what with that involve, John Worboys?That would decide -- depend
1:34:20 > 1:34:29on a number of things.We think someone of that character would be
1:34:29 > 1:34:33released into premises,.
1:34:33 > 1:34:40Workers would supervise the client and my concern is the quality of
1:34:40 > 1:34:46supervision that someone like Worboys would get, because it has
1:34:46 > 1:34:50been privatised, it is a serious and stick by government.Thank you very
1:34:50 > 1:34:54much, all of you. -- I think it is a serious mistake.
1:34:54 > 1:34:58A sign of our times in 2018 is seeing stories explode on social
1:34:58 > 1:34:59media based on one person's experience or claim.
1:34:59 > 1:35:03That tweet or post goes viral but often we don't get to hear
1:35:03 > 1:35:05from both sides which means we don't always hear the full story.
1:35:05 > 1:35:08This morning we have brought together both sides of a story
1:35:08 > 1:35:09which went viral yesterday.
1:35:09 > 1:35:13Fatima Rajina tweeted that she and her friend had been
1:35:13 > 1:35:18turned away from a restaurant on Mothers' Day
1:35:18 > 1:35:19despite seeing empty tables.
1:35:19 > 1:35:22When minutes later they rang the restaurant, a table was offered.
1:35:22 > 1:35:25Fatima Rajina and her friend Nasar Rehman say they were turned
1:35:25 > 1:35:27away because of the colour of their skin.
1:35:27 > 1:35:30That tweet got thousands of retweets and as a result they got a flood
1:35:30 > 1:35:34of responses from other people of colour saying casual racism
1:35:34 > 1:35:38in the restaurant industry was an every day occurrence.
1:35:38 > 1:35:40Dr Fatima Rajna, an academic, and her friend Nasar Rehman,
1:35:40 > 1:35:43a management consultant, agreed to speak to us
1:35:43 > 1:35:47this morning alongside Alex Scrimgeour, the Chief Executive
1:35:47 > 1:35:55and founder of the Cote restaurant chain which turned them away.
1:35:58 > 1:36:01It was Sunday brunch, first went to a cafe across the world -- across
1:36:01 > 1:36:14the road. They had quite a long queue, and and the guy came and
1:36:14 > 1:36:20showed as Cote. We were ignored for a while when we went in, and then
1:36:20 > 1:36:31someone just pop out at the site and it is an
1:36:31 > 1:36:34it is an elevated platform, someone pot out and looked as and down and
1:36:34 > 1:36:41reservations only.When was this? About 12, midday on Mother's Day. We
1:36:41 > 1:36:45were standing there for a few minutes, there were quite a few
1:36:45 > 1:36:51empty tables. Mother's Day, it tends to be big groups.It doesn't mean
1:36:51 > 1:36:55those tables weren't booked.There were tables are the front that were
1:36:55 > 1:37:01empty.
1:37:03 > 1:37:13We then left. We were having a disagreement between ourselves. We
1:37:13 > 1:37:19call the number, then. We rang the restaurant. And I said, have you got
1:37:19 > 1:37:26the restaurant? And I said I'm calling, it is Mother's Day, and I
1:37:26 > 1:37:32have call with my mother. And it was the lady that was serving while we
1:37:32 > 1:37:37were standing there. She turns round and goes, we haven't -- we have got
1:37:37 > 1:37:42a table ready in 30 minutes.By that time it would have been about half
1:37:42 > 1:37:48past 12?A couple of hours after we left and we were walking back to the
1:37:48 > 1:37:54car. I was a bit shocked.
1:37:54 > 1:37:59car. I was a bit shocked. I said, why didn't you check the list? Not
1:37:59 > 1:38:06any let me check for you or anything like that. I wasn't offered a table.
1:38:06 > 1:38:17Why was that? Chose a bit hesitant. I could not see any reason why I was
1:38:17 > 1:38:22not given the table. She didn't say let me check the actual booking. And
1:38:22 > 1:38:25it was early on Mother's Day that they had the booking system. So it
1:38:25 > 1:38:32was a bit strange, really.When we initially walked in, we were both
1:38:32 > 1:38:38aware that it was Mother's Day so we knew that it would be busy. They had
1:38:38 > 1:38:46seats, tables free, outside. Inside, it wasn't particularly busy. When we
1:38:46 > 1:38:51walked out I just instantly got this gut feeling. And I said, I think
1:38:51 > 1:38:55there is more to the story. So we will make this phone call and put it
1:38:55 > 1:38:59to the test. And he did put on an accent to make himself sound like he
1:38:59 > 1:39:03was a white man making a phone call. And we got offered a table within 15
1:39:03 > 1:39:08minutes. And when he switched back to his normal accent by addressing
1:39:08 > 1:39:12her, saying, why wasn't this offer to us when we walked in a few minute
1:39:12 > 1:39:15ago, that is when she got really flustered and offered as the table
1:39:15 > 1:39:19straightaway. That can burn my initial doubts about what I thought
1:39:19 > 1:39:26about -- that confirmed my initial doubts.That you were turned away
1:39:26 > 1:39:32because of the colour of your skin? Yes. We were like, as soon as she
1:39:32 > 1:39:40offered as a table in 15 minutes, it was, like, wow.She got very
1:39:40 > 1:39:44flustered after we addressed.If it was because of a racist member of
1:39:44 > 1:39:50staff, how does that make you feel? I rang up the head office before
1:39:50 > 1:39:56this was all arranged and said have someone call me. So it made me think
1:39:56 > 1:40:01that was being done by the booking system, we were told three or four
1:40:01 > 1:40:09different stories, so it is, like, what is the truth?Here is the chief
1:40:09 > 1:40:15Executive, Alex Skriniar. Why were they turned away?First of all I am
1:40:15 > 1:40:18terribly sad and disappointed that you were turned away from one of our
1:40:18 > 1:40:22restaurants feeling that there was some act of racist prejudice against
1:40:22 > 1:40:31yourselves. That is my first thing that I would like to state.
1:40:31 > 1:40:34that I would like to state. There are a few salient facts that I just
1:40:34 > 1:40:41need to put across, it is a matter that is under investigation in our
1:40:41 > 1:40:46restaurants right now. Mother's Day, as you have already mentioned, in
1:40:46 > 1:40:53fact it was our busiest of a day in our restaurants, and we had 60
1:40:53 > 1:40:58people who came to the door. And people were turned away throughout
1:40:58 > 1:41:03the day of Mother's Day. We were incredibly busy that day. The phone
1:41:03 > 1:41:12call that you refer to, we do not have a telephone receptionist in our
1:41:12 > 1:41:17restaurant. It is off-site. So, you called and off-site reservations
1:41:17 > 1:41:25team. And they had different access to the restaurant manager so the
1:41:25 > 1:41:28restaurant manager, it is an incredibly busy day, it is hard to
1:41:28 > 1:41:35manage. He's conscious of freeing up tables to time. We do everything
1:41:35 > 1:41:40that we can to try and make reservations. My only conclusion can
1:41:40 > 1:41:46be that there has been some sort of mix-up with the reservations team. I
1:41:46 > 1:41:49am incredibly sad and disappointed that you feel that you were turned
1:41:49 > 1:41:54away based on your appearance.Why were they turned away?Because the
1:41:54 > 1:41:58manager felt he didn't have enough space to take them as guests at the
1:41:58 > 1:42:07time. It is still a matter that is under investigation. As a business,
1:42:07 > 1:42:11we employ over 3000 people. And we represent over 120 different
1:42:11 > 1:42:19nationalities. So we are very proud of reputation as an equal
1:42:19 > 1:42:23opportunities employer. This is an unusual thing to hear, and something
1:42:23 > 1:42:29we take very seriously. You have my word that we will be investigating
1:42:29 > 1:42:34your allegation fully and we will come back to you.Who have already
1:42:34 > 1:42:37said that you are sorry for something, and that the restaurant
1:42:37 > 1:42:41was fully booked anyway. So what is it that you're investigating?I am
1:42:41 > 1:42:48not sorry for act of racism because we have not established that. If you
1:42:48 > 1:42:52left our business feeling that you had been in some way prejudiced
1:42:52 > 1:42:56against all there was some act of racism, I am not saying
1:42:56 > 1:43:01categorically if there was or wasn't any act of racism, it is an ongoing
1:43:01 > 1:43:06investigation and I feel very strongly that, before we are
1:43:06 > 1:43:10accused, tried and convicted on social media that has ensued, I
1:43:10 > 1:43:14think it is only fair to the team in the restaurant and to the person and
1:43:14 > 1:43:22placed that we actually, that all the facts are represented and it is
1:43:22 > 1:43:28not a one-sided affair. I disagree with the reservations team being
1:43:28 > 1:43:35off-site. It was the lady that I heard. It is local to will and
1:43:35 > 1:43:42garden. It was diverted to our call centre. We have a very ethnically
1:43:42 > 1:43:45diverse team in Charlotte Street. And I can absolutely guarantee you
1:43:45 > 1:43:50that they did not give any preferential treatment to anyone who
1:43:50 > 1:43:54speaks in either a posh accent or, as you say, trying to pretend that
1:43:54 > 1:43:58you're something else. So I can absolutely guarantee you and I will
1:43:58 > 1:44:02be happy to show you personally the reservation system, if you want. I
1:44:02 > 1:44:09can show you, first-hand.Just because your team is diverse doesn't
1:44:09 > 1:44:13mean that one cannot experience racism from the organisation. So,
1:44:13 > 1:44:16emphasising that you have a diverse team I don't think is sufficient in
1:44:16 > 1:44:22this case.What I am emphasising is that people are innocent until
1:44:22 > 1:44:27proven guilty and we are taking this matter extremely seriously. It was
1:44:27 > 1:44:33something that
1:44:33 > 1:44:35something that happened 36 hours ago. I became aware of the situation
1:44:35 > 1:44:37less than 24 hours ago. And I'm sitting on national television
1:44:37 > 1:44:40giving you my commitment of how seriously we are taking the
1:44:40 > 1:44:46situation. And if there is any act of racism you have my word that we
1:44:46 > 1:44:53will act to the full extent we can. Nil we have been given conflicting
1:44:53 > 1:44:56reports. One was that it was the booking system, wonders that we are
1:44:56 > 1:45:01one was that we were dissatisfied with our service and we had gone
1:45:01 > 1:45:11away like that.Which one was it?We are putting across our position. We
1:45:11 > 1:45:14are genuinely sorry that anyone would walk away feeling unhappy from
1:45:14 > 1:45:19one of our restaurants. We are investigating the accusations that
1:45:19 > 1:45:24you have made. You need to speak to the team and the restaurant and make
1:45:24 > 1:45:28sure that we speak to the individuals concerned and then we
1:45:28 > 1:45:33can come back with a conclusion.How would you measure whether it was
1:45:33 > 1:45:37racist or not? What would be the parameters?We would be looking at
1:45:37 > 1:45:45the reservations and investigating. There is no way as far as you're
1:45:45 > 1:45:50concerned that the woman in a restaurant you saw, that it was the
1:45:50 > 1:45:53same person?I'm absolutely certain that it was not the same person who
1:45:53 > 1:46:00was in charge. It was in Welwyn Garden City. So categorically, and
1:46:00 > 1:46:04we will investigate the number of bookings at tables on the day and
1:46:04 > 1:46:08the CCT -- CCTV images of the day. I have seen a number of guests turned
1:46:08 > 1:46:13away. Not counting exact numbers but it looks like it has been around 60
1:46:13 > 1:46:16people turned away during the day at our restaurant in Welwyn Garden
1:46:16 > 1:46:20City.
1:46:20 > 1:46:24What added to the conversation was the phone conversation when we
1:46:24 > 1:46:29sounded a particular way, we were offered a table in 15 minutes, if
1:46:29 > 1:46:37that was available, why will we -- why were they making a stand that?
1:46:37 > 1:46:43And then when he switched back to his normal accident, it was another
1:46:43 > 1:46:49table as soon as possible. It is about how we sounded different.I do
1:46:49 > 1:46:52think you're making very big accusations here. I need to
1:46:52 > 1:46:58investigate fully. Our reservations teams, the people who you spoke to,
1:46:58 > 1:47:02not the people in the restaurant, are well trained.I appreciate that,
1:47:02 > 1:47:08however...I can assure you that they do not treat people differently
1:47:08 > 1:47:12based on how they speak on the phone.Lots of people got in touch
1:47:12 > 1:47:18with you, talking about is similar kind of experiences, including, for
1:47:18 > 1:47:21example, black people who said they were asked to pay the bill before
1:47:21 > 1:47:26they sat down and ate their meal. Tell us how you felt about the kind
1:47:26 > 1:47:30of, in a different restaurant, but tell us how you felt about the
1:47:30 > 1:47:38anecdote he received from people.-- anecdotes you received. The tweets
1:47:38 > 1:47:43that we put out, we heard from African-American people from across
1:47:43 > 1:47:50the pond of being rejected at restaurants, one comedian said she
1:47:50 > 1:47:58once tried to hire some cycles and was rejected and how white cousin
1:47:58 > 1:48:02went in and got the cycles immediately. Another young lady said
1:48:02 > 1:48:10they had to pay before they were eating but a white family did not
1:48:10 > 1:48:14have to do the same. And she called up using what I call a white
1:48:14 > 1:48:18accident and they said, of course not, you do not have to take -- a
1:48:18 > 1:48:22white accent. And they said, of course you do not have to pay before
1:48:22 > 1:48:26you eat. This is not an isolated incident, it's part of greater
1:48:26 > 1:48:31picture in Britain where we are very Constable talking about racism,
1:48:31 > 1:48:36basher grow very uncomfortable talking about racism. This
1:48:36 > 1:48:39personifies where Britain is, they just do not want to confront where
1:48:39 > 1:48:46they stand where it comes to race relations.Can I just add, we have
1:48:46 > 1:48:53been monitoring social media, this has caused quite a stir. The story
1:48:53 > 1:48:59you are referring to about someone saying they were asked to prepay in
1:48:59 > 1:49:05one of our restaurants...It wasn't in one of your restaurants.We do
1:49:05 > 1:49:10not have a prepayment policy. I'd like to go back to the defending
1:49:10 > 1:49:15Cote, our integrity and community equal opportunities. We are very
1:49:15 > 1:49:21diverse, we don't tolerate any racism in any form to our guests
1:49:21 > 1:49:25ought
1:49:25 > 1:49:25diverse, we don't tolerate any racism in any form to our guests or
1:49:25 > 1:49:28the team members.And when you have reached the investigation and?They
1:49:28 > 1:49:31will be the first to know? Of course.
1:49:31 > 1:49:34Russia has until midnight tonight to explain how a powerful russian
1:49:34 > 1:49:36nerve agent was used on British soil.
1:49:36 > 1:49:38The Prime Minister told the House of Commons,
1:49:38 > 1:49:40"Should there be no credible response, we will conclude that this
1:49:40 > 1:49:43action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state
1:49:43 > 1:49:44against the United Kingdom."
1:49:44 > 1:49:46In the last half hour, the Russian Foreign minister
1:49:46 > 1:49:49Sergei Lavrov has said Moscow has requested access to the nerve
1:49:49 > 1:49:51agent used to poison the former spy Sergei Skripal,
1:49:51 > 1:49:54and his daughter, in Salisbury describing the allegations
1:49:54 > 1:49:56as "rubbish" and insisting...
1:49:56 > 1:49:58"We have nothing to do with it.
1:49:58 > 1:49:59Russia is not guilty."
1:49:59 > 1:50:01This was President Putin's response when questioned
1:50:01 > 1:50:04by the BBC yesterday.
1:50:04 > 1:50:06President Putin, BBC News.
1:50:06 > 1:50:09Is Russia behind the poisoning of Sergei Skripal?
1:50:09 > 1:50:14TRANSLATION:We're busy with agriculture here.
1:50:14 > 1:50:21To create good conditions for people's lives.
1:50:21 > 1:50:23And you talk to me about tragedies.
1:50:23 > 1:50:24First work out what actually happened there
1:50:24 > 1:50:26and then we'll about it.
1:50:26 > 1:50:29With me is Famil Ismailov, editor of BBC Russian.
1:50:29 > 1:50:34Bring us right up to date with all the latest?
1:50:34 > 1:50:39We know that the UK ambassador was summoned to the Foreign Ministry of
1:50:39 > 1:50:42Russia, and most probably he will be demanded to give explanations about
1:50:42 > 1:50:49the ultimatum and why as Mr
1:50:49 > 1:50:52the ultimatum and why as Mr Lavrov said, Britain will not show the
1:50:52 > 1:51:03evidence that links Russia to surrogate -- to to the case. Russia
1:51:03 > 1:51:10will probably start moving towards worsening relations with the UK,
1:51:10 > 1:51:14because they will be prepared for every thing. A spokesperson for the
1:51:14 > 1:51:17Foreign Ministry in Russia you today called the statement by Theresa May
1:51:17 > 1:51:24a circus show in Parliament. We have seen a demand from Mr Lavrov, and
1:51:24 > 1:51:28most probably after the summoning of the ambassador, we will see more
1:51:28 > 1:51:32things from the Russian officials. We have seen a statement from the
1:51:32 > 1:51:35Russian defence Minister this morning saying that the chemical
1:51:35 > 1:51:40weapons that Russia had will be destroyed and they have accounted
1:51:40 > 1:51:43for all the weapons and element of items that they had.Thank you very
1:51:43 > 1:51:49much. Oh, dear.
1:51:49 > 1:51:55We can speak now to Radek Sikorski, a former Polish foreign minister.
1:51:55 > 1:52:01He has described Russia as an assassination department. The Prime
1:52:01 > 1:52:01Minister's.
1:52:04 > 1:52:07The Prime Minister's assertion that Putin is to blame has led to renewed
1:52:07 > 1:52:09calls for England to withdraw from the World Cup
1:52:09 > 1:52:11in Russia in June.
1:52:11 > 1:52:16Why do you say that Russia is an assassination department?To be
1:52:16 > 1:52:19precise, Russia has an assassination department. They have bumped off
1:52:19 > 1:52:31Chechen need is brush recruit leaders and
1:52:31 > 1:52:33leaders and previously Mr Litvinenko and others, they have the means and
1:52:33 > 1:52:40the motive.The motive is, there is an election on Sunday?President
1:52:40 > 1:52:44Putin is fond of showing his capabilities, whether they are in
1:52:44 > 1:52:49the nuclear field or in Syria, the missiles, maybe this as well. I also
1:52:49 > 1:52:54think he's testing Britain. The statement from Sergei Lavrov is
1:52:54 > 1:53:00nothing but contemptuous. And they know the way to make Mr Putin
1:53:00 > 1:53:07noticed the British response would be to go after dodgy Russian money
1:53:07 > 1:53:10in London. They are betting that in anticipation of Brexit and the
1:53:10 > 1:53:16widening of the current account deficit, Britain wouldn't dare do
1:53:16 > 1:53:21that?Where would you put your money?I think it's an opportunity
1:53:21 > 1:53:25for Theresa May to show leadership and show that Britain is in the big
1:53:25 > 1:53:30league.So go after the Russian money?Yes, with the support of Nato
1:53:30 > 1:53:33allies and I think we should all rally round Britain on this issue.
1:53:33 > 1:53:36How do you go after the money, in practical terms, what does that
1:53:36 > 1:53:43mean?In force existing legislation. It
1:53:43 > 1:53:45mean?In force existing legislation. -- rubber Rabbi enforcing existing
1:53:45 > 1:53:50legislation against politically connected people, and investigate
1:53:50 > 1:53:54large amounts of suspect money, to affect the Russian way of life which
1:53:54 > 1:54:00is to steal money from Russian people and scroll it away and enjoy
1:54:00 > 1:54:03it in the West, primarily in London. But that actually hurt President
1:54:03 > 1:54:09Putin, who was a very, very wealthy man?The trick would be to go after
1:54:09 > 1:54:15his associates, not the Putin dissidents. But to craft a political
1:54:15 > 1:54:19response to a political assassination.Thank you very much.
1:54:19 > 1:54:27Do you have a view on whether in ten -- England should boycott the World
1:54:27 > 1:54:30Cup?I am against boycott, the Olympic tradition was to suspend
1:54:30 > 1:54:37even wars to have the games. And I hurts the sports men, -- I think it
1:54:37 > 1:54:40hurts the sports men and there are different ways to respond to acts of
1:54:40 > 1:54:42terrorism.
1:54:42 > 1:54:44In Oxford, Professor Anthony Glees, head of the University
1:54:44 > 1:54:47of Buckingham's Centre for Security and Intelligence Studies.
1:54:47 > 1:54:52He wants England to boycott the World Cup in June.
1:54:52 > 1:54:53Cup in June.
1:54:53 > 1:54:55And Peter Shilton, England's most capped player who has played
1:54:55 > 1:54:57in three World Cups.
1:54:57 > 1:55:01What do you think, Peter Shilton? I don't think we should mix politics
1:55:01 > 1:55:07with sport. What would it achieve if we did boycott the World Cup? We
1:55:07 > 1:55:12would probably suffer more ourselves. If we did it on our own,
1:55:12 > 1:55:17the fans would suffer, and the England team, financially we would
1:55:17 > 1:55:23suffer, the FA would suffer. And what would it achieve? I think if
1:55:23 > 1:55:25there is a boycott in terms of sport, it would have to be done by a
1:55:25 > 1:55:30lot of other countries as well. I don't think we'd achieve anything, I
1:55:30 > 1:55:33think it's very dangerous mixing sports with politics. Obviously the
1:55:33 > 1:55:38government have to be seen to be doing something, but I think it's
1:55:38 > 1:55:42basically got to be done as the previous gentleman said, by
1:55:42 > 1:55:49sanctions, and by hurting Russia in a different way. I figured we just
1:55:49 > 1:55:56had ourselves. That's what I think it would just heard ourselves.So
1:55:56 > 1:56:00what would it achieve if we boycotted the World Cup?If it could
1:56:00 > 1:56:04be shown that Russia was behind the attempted assassination of two
1:56:04 > 1:56:09people in Salisbury, and the poisoning, perhaps, of 500 British
1:56:09 > 1:56:16people in Salisbury, not to mention the brave police officer, then not
1:56:16 > 1:56:20to go and play football in Russia would be the least of the measures
1:56:20 > 1:56:26that we ought to be taking. It would be a very serious thing if Russia
1:56:26 > 1:56:30could be shown to have been regarding the United Kingdom's
1:56:30 > 1:56:35territory as a place which it can go and kill people in. That's a very,
1:56:35 > 1:56:41very serious thing. As for the argument, keep politics out of
1:56:41 > 1:56:45sport, it's something that we used to hear when South Africa was a vile
1:56:45 > 1:56:52racist apartheid country, and all the people who wanted to go and play
1:56:52 > 1:56:57sports said, keep politics out of sport. It's the other way around.
1:56:57 > 1:57:00The people who are playing politics with sport, they are countries like
1:57:00 > 1:57:05South Africa, as it used to be, and Russia today. There's another point
1:57:05 > 1:57:12that needs to be addressed by our football Association. The Russian
1:57:12 > 1:57:19fans, even before all of this, were well known for their brutality.In
1:57:19 > 1:57:232016 in the Euro cup... That is a separate issue. And we will talk
1:57:23 > 1:57:28about that no doubt but Peter Shilton, you were disagreeing with
1:57:28 > 1:57:34much of that? Briefly respond, if you would.It's happened before in
1:57:34 > 1:57:40this country. I forgotten the gentleman's name, forgive me, who
1:57:40 > 1:57:44was poisoned and died and we still entered the World Cup. What's the
1:57:44 > 1:57:49difference? Why didn't we boycott the World Cup and not ended? I think
1:57:49 > 1:57:53it's very -- not into it? I think it would hurt us more than it would
1:57:53 > 1:58:00hurt Russia. Russia are a big country, we have got to come up with
1:58:00 > 1:58:03some better ideas than not going to the World Cup and hurting our own
1:58:03 > 1:58:05fans and FA. Thank you both for coming on the
1:58:05 > 1:58:11programme. Tomorrow morning, Strictly legend and former head
1:58:11 > 1:58:16judge Len Goodman will be with us. Have a lovely day, think if your
1:58:16 > 1:58:25company today. -- thank you for your company.