16/03/2018

0:00:04 > 0:00:10Hello it's Friday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley,

0:00:10 > 0:00:12welcome to the programme.

0:00:12 > 0:00:15We speak to a woman who's campaigning for a change in the law

0:00:15 > 0:00:23to make it easier to convict someone who kills an unborn baby.

0:00:23 > 0:00:25Malorie Bantala was eight months pregnant when her baby -

0:00:25 > 0:00:27Joel - was killed when his father repeatedly kicked her

0:00:27 > 0:00:29and stamped on her stomach.

0:00:29 > 0:00:30The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, says again

0:00:30 > 0:00:33we shouldn't be too hasty to condemn Russia over the nerve agent

0:00:33 > 0:00:36attack on a former spy and his daughter in Salisbury.

0:00:36 > 0:00:41Members of his party aren't so sure.

0:00:41 > 0:00:45Jeremy's concern seems to be that we could be rushing to some kind of

0:00:45 > 0:00:48armed conflict with Russia. I just don't think anybody is talking about

0:00:48 > 0:00:53that at all. Nobody is talking about invading Russia or launching air

0:00:53 > 0:01:00strikes on Moscow. What the Prime Minister set out are specific and

0:01:00 > 0:01:04targeted measures, which are not of a military nature, but we hope will

0:01:04 > 0:01:07send a clear message to Russia that its behaviour is completely

0:01:07 > 0:01:10unacceptable.

0:01:10 > 0:01:16We'll get reaction at the end of an explosive week.

0:01:16 > 0:01:18And there's controversy this morning over this T-shirt.

0:01:18 > 0:01:21The clothes shop, Topman, is facing pressure to stop selling it -

0:01:21 > 0:01:24because some Liverpool fans say it's disrespectful to the 96 people who

0:01:24 > 0:01:27died in the Hillsborough disaster.

0:01:35 > 0:01:36Hello...

0:01:36 > 0:01:39welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

0:01:39 > 0:01:41We're also going to be discussing "top five emails" -

0:01:41 > 0:01:44after an advertising executive who was leaving his job sent

0:01:44 > 0:01:46round an email ranking his female colleagues according to their looks.

0:01:46 > 0:01:48And he sent it on International Women's Day.

0:01:48 > 0:01:50We'll be talking about office culture and what

0:01:50 > 0:01:54still needs to change.

0:01:54 > 0:01:57Do get in touch with your stories of sexist behaviour at work -

0:01:57 > 0:02:02and the other stories we're talking about this morning -

0:02:02 > 0:02:04use the hashtag Victoria Live and if you text,

0:02:04 > 0:02:06you will be charged at the standard network rate.

0:02:06 > 0:02:08Our top story today...

0:02:08 > 0:02:10At least four people have been killed after a newly built bridge

0:02:10 > 0:02:12collapsed onto a major road in Miami.

0:02:12 > 0:02:14Eight cars waiting at traffic lights below were crushed.

0:02:14 > 0:02:16Rescue teams are still searching for suvivors.

0:02:16 > 0:02:21Lebo Diseko reports.

0:02:21 > 0:02:24This is all that's left of the bridge that was

0:02:24 > 0:02:28built for safety's sake.

0:02:28 > 0:02:30Reduced to rubble.

0:02:30 > 0:02:32Emergency services say they are still in search

0:02:32 > 0:02:34and rescue mode for now.

0:02:34 > 0:02:37It is thought that several people have died but it is not

0:02:37 > 0:02:39clear yet how many.

0:02:39 > 0:02:42We will continue to search this pile until we are sure

0:02:42 > 0:02:44that there are no other survivors.

0:02:44 > 0:02:51We were able to remove nine victims early on.

0:02:51 > 0:02:54They have all been transported to local area hospitals and once

0:02:54 > 0:02:57we have completed our search and rescue operations we will remain

0:02:57 > 0:03:00on scene and help with the recovery efforts as well.

0:03:00 > 0:03:04It was just before two in the afternoon local time

0:03:04 > 0:03:09when the 950 ton bridge collapsed, crashing down on the road

0:03:09 > 0:03:13below and trapping people and cars beneath it.

0:03:13 > 0:03:16It was completed last Saturday and was meant to get students from

0:03:16 > 0:03:23Florida International University safely across a busy motorway.

0:03:23 > 0:03:31We were just hanging out and then we didn't hear much

0:03:32 > 0:03:34but we starting hearing sirens.

0:03:34 > 0:03:36We looked outside and saw multiple cars crushed under the bridge.

0:03:36 > 0:03:39I was in the dorm and my uncle called me and told me

0:03:39 > 0:03:41a bridge collapsed.

0:03:41 > 0:03:43I didn't believe him at first because I saw them

0:03:43 > 0:03:44put it up on Saturday.

0:03:44 > 0:03:46The section that collapsed was called an "instant

0:03:46 > 0:03:48bridge" because of the fast construction method used.

0:03:48 > 0:03:51Authorities will want to know how this structure,

0:03:51 > 0:03:54which was meant to be iconic, could have failed

0:03:54 > 0:03:57so catastrophically.

0:03:57 > 0:03:59Investigators are being sent to the scene to try

0:03:59 > 0:04:04and establish what happened.

0:04:04 > 0:04:06Meanwhile, the company that put the bridge up says

0:04:06 > 0:04:09that it is devastated at the loss of life and is doing

0:04:09 > 0:04:10everything it can to help.

0:04:10 > 0:04:18Lebo Diseko, BBC News.

0:04:19 > 0:04:22Reeta Chakrabarti is in the BBC Newsroom

0:04:22 > 0:04:28with a summary of the rest of the day's news.

0:04:28 > 0:04:30The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov,

0:04:30 > 0:04:32has confirmed that Moscow will expel British diplomats.

0:04:32 > 0:04:33It follows Theresa May's expulsion of 23 staff

0:04:33 > 0:04:36from the Russian embassy in London, over the nerve agent

0:04:36 > 0:04:37attack in Salisbury.

0:04:37 > 0:04:39Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned whether the Russian state

0:04:39 > 0:04:40was behind the poisoning.

0:04:40 > 0:04:42In an article in the Guardian, the Labour leader said

0:04:42 > 0:04:44the government should not rush to judgement.

0:04:44 > 0:04:46Keith Doyle reports.

0:04:46 > 0:04:48Russia might be diplomatically isolated as world powers

0:04:48 > 0:04:49fall in behind Britain.

0:04:49 > 0:04:52But Vladimir Putin was showing no signs of that at a rally before

0:04:52 > 0:04:53this Sunday's election.

0:04:53 > 0:04:56With 23 Russian diplomats considered to be spies in exile from the UK,

0:04:56 > 0:05:04the next move is his.

0:05:09 > 0:05:11Moscow has continued its salvo of defiant attacks, saying that

0:05:11 > 0:05:14Britain has a boorish attitude and it cannot be trusted.

0:05:14 > 0:05:16And according to the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov,

0:05:16 > 0:05:19it's even trying to distract attention from Brexit.

0:05:19 > 0:05:23Britain's own Defence Secretary was equally blunt.

0:05:23 > 0:05:27If you are a nation and another nation has launched a nerve agent

0:05:27 > 0:05:30attack on your people, then we have every right to tell

0:05:30 > 0:05:34Russia to shut up and go away.

0:05:34 > 0:05:36Nato is agreeing with Britain's assessment that Russia

0:05:36 > 0:05:39was responsible for the nerve agent attack in Salisbury.

0:05:39 > 0:05:44The Prime Minister's very public visit there has ensured that this

0:05:44 > 0:05:48attack and all of its ramifications remain very much in the limelight.

0:05:48 > 0:05:52Here, behind covers and screens, the investigation continues.

0:05:52 > 0:05:55While in London and Moscow and other world capitals,

0:05:55 > 0:05:57a diplomatic war is under way.

0:05:57 > 0:06:01Keith Doyle, BBC News.

0:06:01 > 0:06:02Our Political Correspondent Ben Wright

0:06:02 > 0:06:07is in Westminster.

0:06:07 > 0:06:12Just thinking about the reaction to Jeremy Corbyn's comments, they seem

0:06:12 > 0:06:16to have exposed sharp divisions within the party. They certainly

0:06:16 > 0:06:21have, divisions that have always been there, I think, particularly on

0:06:21 > 0:06:24foreign policy between Jeremy Corbyn, who throughout his career

0:06:24 > 0:06:28has opposed pretty much any military action and confrontation. He has

0:06:28 > 0:06:33been a critic of Nato. I think he finds himself in a tricky position

0:06:33 > 0:06:37leading the Labour Party on this, who feel the government's position

0:06:37 > 0:06:46on the whole is right and needs to be backed unequivocally. Jeremy

0:06:46 > 0:06:49Corbyn has a different view. He is maintaining that while the Russian

0:06:49 > 0:06:51state could be responsible for this, he's also saying it could be

0:06:51 > 0:06:55possible the nerve agent used in Salisbury perhaps might have

0:06:55 > 0:06:58originated in Russia but could have fallen into the hands of some Mafia

0:06:58 > 0:07:02like gangsters, and that is how it ended up being used in Salisbury. In

0:07:02 > 0:07:06an article in the Guardian today he says that while the attack is

0:07:06 > 0:07:09reckless and barbaric, politicians need to keep their heads, look at

0:07:09 > 0:07:13the evidence and not rush to judgment. He says the government's

0:07:13 > 0:07:17response to this in terms of sanctions and diplomatic expulsions

0:07:17 > 0:07:21is correct, but also says it could be more effective if they go after

0:07:21 > 0:07:26Russian

0:07:32 > 0:07:34oligarchs in London and all their money. He's raising lots of

0:07:34 > 0:07:36questions about the government's strategy and I think that

0:07:36 > 0:07:38questioning is making many Labour MPs on the backbenches and front

0:07:38 > 0:07:40bench very uncomfortable. For instance, Keir Starmer, the shadow

0:07:40 > 0:07:43Brexit spokesperson said there should be no ifs and no buts when it

0:07:43 > 0:07:46comes to backing the government 's strategy on this. But I think Jeremy

0:07:46 > 0:07:50Corbyn is still asking a lot of questions, which he feels are

0:07:50 > 0:07:55completely legitimate, but they are concerning his own party.

0:07:55 > 0:07:58Egypt is to send a delegation of MPs to the UK,

0:07:58 > 0:08:00following the death of an Egyptian student in Nottingham.

0:08:00 > 0:08:0218-year-old Mariam Moustafa died on Wednesday,

0:08:02 > 0:08:05nearly a month after being attacked in the city centre.

0:08:05 > 0:08:08The hashtag "Mariam's rights will not be lost" has

0:08:08 > 0:08:10been trending in Egypt, and the country's prosecutor-general

0:08:10 > 0:08:11has asked for information from British authorities

0:08:11 > 0:08:14about the teenager's death.

0:08:14 > 0:08:16One in four council-run secondary schools in England

0:08:16 > 0:08:19is running at a loss, according to new research

0:08:19 > 0:08:21by the Education Policy Institute.

0:08:21 > 0:08:24The number of schools in deficit has nearly trebled

0:08:24 > 0:08:32in the last four years.

0:08:32 > 0:08:38and is putting an extra £1.3 billion into schools.

0:08:38 > 0:08:39Syrian activists say nearly 20,000 civilians

0:08:39 > 0:08:41left the rebel enclave of Eastern Ghouta yesterday,

0:08:41 > 0:08:43in the biggest displacement of people since government forces

0:08:43 > 0:08:45intensified their assault last month.

0:08:45 > 0:08:47The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says

0:08:47 > 0:08:54the exodus stopped when rebels launched a counter-attack.

0:08:54 > 0:08:56MPs say they've been unable to identify a border solution

0:08:56 > 0:08:59operating anywhere in the world that would enable an invisible border

0:08:59 > 0:09:01to continue between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic after Brexit.

0:09:01 > 0:09:03The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee has called

0:09:03 > 0:09:06on the government to set out more details on how it will manage

0:09:06 > 0:09:09the movement of people and goods across the Irish border.

0:09:09 > 0:09:11It's also warned that, without a transition period,

0:09:11 > 0:09:13there won't be enough time to put new arrangements in place

0:09:13 > 0:09:21by withdrawal day.

0:09:21 > 0:09:23Four African countries with the world's largest elephant

0:09:23 > 0:09:25populations are expected to call on Britain and the European Union to

0:09:25 > 0:09:27ban the legal sale of antique ivory.

0:09:27 > 0:09:30Ministers from Botswana will sign a petition at a wildlife

0:09:30 > 0:09:31summit in the country, urging Europeans to follow

0:09:31 > 0:09:34China's lead in outlawing the sale of ivory products.

0:09:34 > 0:09:37Alistair Leithead reports.

0:09:37 > 0:09:39Africa's elephants are still severely under threat,

0:09:39 > 0:09:41with less animals being born than the number killed

0:09:41 > 0:09:45every year by poachers.

0:09:45 > 0:09:47Here in Botswana, the last true sanctuary for elephants

0:09:47 > 0:09:49on the continent, African ministers, scientists and conservationists

0:09:49 > 0:09:57are again meeting to try to stop the ivory trade.

0:10:01 > 0:10:03Techniques used for counterterrorism are now being used to stop poaching

0:10:03 > 0:10:05and catch the culprits.

0:10:05 > 0:10:09And they're being showcased at the Giants Club Summit,

0:10:09 > 0:10:11which aims to protect half of Africa's elephants

0:10:11 > 0:10:13and their habitat by 2020.

0:10:13 > 0:10:15But there's another target.

0:10:15 > 0:10:20The legal trade of antique ivory in Britain and the rest of Europe.

0:10:20 > 0:10:23The UK and the EU are the biggest exporters of legal antique ivory.

0:10:23 > 0:10:26These are sales that are permitted and are allowed around the world.

0:10:26 > 0:10:29Now, we have seen China has banned their trade in ivory.

0:10:29 > 0:10:31Hong Kong is saying it's doing a similar thing.

0:10:31 > 0:10:33The African leaders meeting here with their governments

0:10:33 > 0:10:36are hoping the EU and the UK could do likewise and could stop

0:10:36 > 0:10:40this trade in antique ivory.

0:10:40 > 0:10:43It won't stop the poachers targeting these animals

0:10:43 > 0:10:47for their tusks across Africa, but it will send a strong

0:10:47 > 0:10:52message to try and reduce the demand for ivory.

0:10:52 > 0:10:58Alastair Leithead, BBC News, in Botswana.

0:10:58 > 0:11:01The singer Rihanna has accused the social media

0:11:01 > 0:11:05app Snapchat of "intentionally" shaming victims of domestic abuse.

0:11:05 > 0:11:08An advert for a game on the social media platform asked

0:11:08 > 0:11:11users if they would "rather slap Rihanna or punch Chris Brown".

0:11:11 > 0:11:14A spokesperson for the company said the ad was "disgusting" and "should

0:11:14 > 0:11:17never have appeared".

0:11:17 > 0:11:19A man who calls himself the French Spiderman has defied

0:11:19 > 0:11:23security to climb to the top of one of Paris's highest buildings.

0:11:23 > 0:11:27Alain Robert was tackled by security guards as tried to scale

0:11:27 > 0:11:31the Total building.

0:11:31 > 0:11:34But after being released he returned to the challenge,

0:11:34 > 0:11:35clambering 187 metres to the top.

0:11:35 > 0:11:37Afterwards, he said he would continue to climb for as long

0:11:37 > 0:11:38as he was physically able.

0:11:38 > 0:11:46That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

0:11:46 > 0:11:50Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

0:11:50 > 0:11:53use the hashtag Victoria Live

0:11:53 > 0:11:57and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

0:11:57 > 0:12:01Let's get some sport...

0:12:01 > 0:12:05The Winter Paralympics are drawing to a close this weekend and as yet

0:12:05 > 0:12:09Great Britain have not met their medals target. What other chances to

0:12:09 > 0:12:18improve situation? The target was 6-12 medals and the

0:12:18 > 0:12:22realistic game was seven set by Paralympics GB. They are on five as

0:12:22 > 0:12:27it stands.

0:12:32 > 0:12:36More disapointment for Great Britain's snowboarders

0:12:36 > 0:12:39following on from the boarder cross on Monday where the start

0:12:39 > 0:12:40gate broke just before competition.

0:12:40 > 0:12:43Today Ben Moore, James Barnes-Miller and Owen Pick

0:12:43 > 0:12:45all missed out on medals in their Winter Paralympic banked

0:12:45 > 0:12:49slalom events.

0:12:49 > 0:12:56All got 3 runs, best time out the three which counts.

0:12:56 > 0:12:58Pick, GB's flag bearer, missed a gate in his second

0:12:58 > 0:13:00run and then failed to improve in his third which we're

0:13:00 > 0:13:02watching now, he was well off the pace set

0:13:02 > 0:13:04by the eventual winner from Japan.

0:13:04 > 0:13:07It means Britain remain on five medals, with two days of competition

0:13:07 > 0:13:08remaining in Pyeongchang.

0:13:08 > 0:13:10Paralympics GB relying on Scott Meenagh in the cross

0:13:10 > 0:13:15country tomorroew and the 3 pairs in the Women's slalom to add

0:13:15 > 0:13:19to their total of 5 in South Korea.

0:13:19 > 0:13:24Our things starting to turn around for Arsene Wenger?Arsenal in the

0:13:24 > 0:13:27hat for the Europa League quarterfinal draw after beating AC

0:13:27 > 0:13:31Milan 3-1 last night. They went behind at the Emirates but recovered

0:13:31 > 0:13:37to score three times, winning the tie 5-1 on aggregate. Danny Welbeck,

0:13:37 > 0:13:40two goals last night on the day he got back into the England squad for

0:13:40 > 0:13:43the friendlies against the Netherlands and Italy. Some big

0:13:43 > 0:13:48teams left in the drawer including Atletico Madrid, Marseille, Sporting

0:13:48 > 0:13:57Lisbon, CSKA Moscow. Arsene Wenger said he wanted to avoid Atletico

0:14:01 > 0:14:02said he wanted to avoid Atletico in the last eight. After losing to

0:14:02 > 0:14:05Manchester City twice and Brighton before the first leg, it was a run

0:14:05 > 0:14:08of four defeats for Arsene Wenger but he says they have proved a few

0:14:08 > 0:14:10people wrong.We had a nightmare week and to recover from that we

0:14:10 > 0:14:16need to be mentally strong, to be solid. And the team needed to show a

0:14:16 > 0:14:24together response. That's what we did. Overall, I think many people

0:14:24 > 0:14:28didn't expect us to respond like we did.The Champions League draw takes

0:14:28 > 0:14:33place at 11 o'clock this morning, Manchester City and Liverpool are

0:14:33 > 0:14:36keeping an eye on who they will have on the last eight of the Champions

0:14:36 > 0:14:40League. The Europa League draw is an hour later at midday. Arsenal are

0:14:40 > 0:14:44well off the pace in the Premier League so winning the Europa League

0:14:44 > 0:14:47could well be their only way back into the Champions League next

0:14:47 > 0:14:51season. And still there are lots of Arsenal fans who want Arsene Wenger

0:14:51 > 0:14:57out but he has eased some pressure with this Europa League run.He goes

0:14:57 > 0:15:02on and on!Some breaking news that is reaching us, we were talking in

0:15:02 > 0:15:05the news about the Miami bridge collapse and police have now

0:15:05 > 0:15:09confirmed that six people have died after the bridge collapsed in Miami.

0:15:09 > 0:15:16We will bring you more developments on that throughout the programme.

0:15:16 > 0:15:18Malorie Bantala was eight months pregnant when the father

0:15:18 > 0:15:25of her unborn baby attacked her.

0:15:25 > 0:15:26Kevin Wilson and his 17-year-old accomplice Tarsari

0:15:26 > 0:15:28Grant repeatedly kicked and stamped Malorie in the stomach.

0:15:28 > 0:15:32It led to the stillbirth of her son Joel and left her in a critical

0:15:32 > 0:15:34condition, needing major surgery on the hand she had used

0:15:34 > 0:15:37for protection from the blows.

0:15:37 > 0:15:40Branding the attack cowardly, vile and callous the judge sentenced

0:15:40 > 0:15:42Wilson to a minimum of 16 years for child destruction and GBH.

0:15:42 > 0:15:44Grant was given a 10-year custodial sentence,

0:15:44 > 0:15:49plus four years on licence.

0:15:49 > 0:15:52Now three years on from the attack and Malorie has launched a petition

0:15:52 > 0:15:55and campaign calling for an urgent review of the child destruction law,

0:15:55 > 0:15:58which she feels makes it difficult to get the sentence perpetrators

0:15:58 > 0:16:05of these specific crimes deserve.

0:16:05 > 0:16:06Speaking to us exclusively in her first interview

0:16:06 > 0:16:12since the attack Malorie is here with us now.

0:16:12 > 0:16:20Thank you for coming in.Thank you for having me.What memories do you

0:16:20 > 0:16:32have of the day of the attack?For me it was just I remembered coming

0:16:32 > 0:16:36home from a friend's house, I was walking along the pathway towards my

0:16:36 > 0:16:44house and the guy came out at me from the bushes wearing a motorcycle

0:16:44 > 0:16:50helmet. As he came out from the bushes he stood beside me and let me

0:16:50 > 0:16:55go. As I took a couple of steps forward I see another guy with a

0:16:55 > 0:17:00motorcycle helmet but then I happened to recognise him. Just as

0:17:00 > 0:17:05that happened, I found myself on the floor so the first guide put me on

0:17:05 > 0:17:14the floor. Next thing I know, I'm being stamped and kicked by the guy

0:17:14 > 0:17:21that got me pregnant. The first guy from behind, he stumped me on the

0:17:21 > 0:17:27stomach. At the time I was thinking what's going on, why is he doing

0:17:27 > 0:17:32this? All sorts of stuff was going through my mind.Presumably terror

0:17:32 > 0:17:39and thinking about what is happening to your unborn child.Exactly, but

0:17:39 > 0:17:43at the time I was in the state of confusion, I didn't know what was

0:17:43 > 0:17:51going on.And you knew it was him because he recognised his eyes?No,

0:17:51 > 0:17:54his eyes were covered with a motorcycle helmet but just his

0:17:54 > 0:18:00figure and what he was wearing.So you were left lying on the pavement,

0:18:00 > 0:18:06did anyone come to your aid?My neighbour heard the screaming from

0:18:06 > 0:18:15her house, she opened her window and screamed, what are you doing? At

0:18:15 > 0:18:22that moment, another neighbour saw two guys on top of me and as my

0:18:22 > 0:18:26neighbour screamed out of the window they ran off and I think that is

0:18:26 > 0:18:30what initially scared them off, but if it wasn't for that God only knows

0:18:30 > 0:18:36how long they would have continued attacking me.So you were rushed to

0:18:36 > 0:18:43hospital?Not really, no. The ambulance couldn't make it so the

0:18:43 > 0:18:48offices took me to hospital, then I had to wait another hour or so just

0:18:48 > 0:18:53to be seen by a nurse for an assessment.And what's going on in

0:18:53 > 0:18:58your mind during that time? I guess you were starting to process what

0:18:58 > 0:19:03happened.Initially I sat down, I thought maybe my waters have broken,

0:19:03 > 0:19:10I went to my neighbours' house but they couldn't see anything. I wasn't

0:19:10 > 0:19:13in a lot of pain because of the adrenaline but then after some time

0:19:13 > 0:19:19I started to realise, my baby hasn't moved, so my instinct started to

0:19:19 > 0:19:23tell me something was wrong because he hadn't been moving for quite a

0:19:23 > 0:19:29while.So you got to hospital and at what point did you realise that Joel

0:19:29 > 0:19:39had died?It was once they confirmed it to me. I had a feeling, I already

0:19:39 > 0:19:46kind of knew what I needed them to confirm it.You had so much to

0:19:46 > 0:19:53contend with because you had had a Caesarean section...Yes, I had a

0:19:53 > 0:19:57Caesarean section the following evening because I couldn't give

0:19:57 > 0:20:03birth naturally, it just wasn't happening. Then after that I

0:20:03 > 0:20:09realised or I was told that my fingers have broken so I also had to

0:20:09 > 0:20:15have surgery the same week, I think a few days afterwards, I had to have

0:20:15 > 0:20:20surgery on my fingers.And you lost a lot of blood, you were in a bad

0:20:20 > 0:20:25way. Then all of this happened and of course the police were around as

0:20:25 > 0:20:30well.They were around from the start offering support, then once

0:20:30 > 0:20:35they thought I was in a better state to start explaining what happened,

0:20:35 > 0:20:40that's when they intervened more. The main focus was my health and to

0:20:40 > 0:20:46make sure I was OK.And so how did you begin to process? Because

0:20:46 > 0:20:51presumably your family and friends were trying to protect you but there

0:20:51 > 0:20:54was intense media interest in the story as well because journalists

0:20:54 > 0:20:59see it as a story, it is your life but they want to report what

0:20:59 > 0:21:05happened.Initially I didn't know how much media attention it gained.

0:21:05 > 0:21:09I was in hospital, I didn't have a phone. My family and friends would

0:21:09 > 0:21:16only tell me so much just try and keep me protected, and they knew I

0:21:16 > 0:21:24would get overwhelmed with a lot information so they just tried to

0:21:24 > 0:21:26keep that away from me and I didn't realise how much media attention it

0:21:26 > 0:21:29got until after I came out of hospital.Obviously the physical

0:21:29 > 0:21:33injuries heal in time after the operations but how have you been

0:21:33 > 0:21:38able to process what happened to you, that the father of your unborn

0:21:38 > 0:21:44child was the person to take him away from you?It's taken a long

0:21:44 > 0:21:48time, to be fair, maybe two and a half years just to get to a place

0:21:48 > 0:21:53where I have finally accepted what's happened. I will never understand, I

0:21:53 > 0:22:00will never know why he did it and I have accepted that, but for me my

0:22:00 > 0:22:06main focus was just to make sure that I was in a good place. I wasn't

0:22:06 > 0:22:12going to let this define me, I wasn't going to let this completely

0:22:12 > 0:22:19take over my life and stop me from moving on.Was one of the things

0:22:19 > 0:22:24that helped you move on the fact that you went to court and you

0:22:24 > 0:22:28sought justice being served?Yes, that was one of the main things but

0:22:28 > 0:22:33also talking to my family and friends, trying to get their outlook

0:22:33 > 0:22:37on it and their support as well, that helped me get to the place

0:22:37 > 0:22:42where I am today.If we talk about the trial, how hard was that for you

0:22:42 > 0:22:46to listen to the evidence and effectively relive that day that you

0:22:46 > 0:22:54try to move on from?It was a tough time. It was emotionally draining. I

0:22:54 > 0:22:59did put on a brave face. I went basically every single day just to

0:22:59 > 0:23:06make sure that I knew what was going on, I was in the loop, but when the

0:23:06 > 0:23:11evidence came together and the first time I knew of anything was in court

0:23:11 > 0:23:14I was genuinely shocked, I couldn't believe it and I think that's when

0:23:14 > 0:23:20it really dawned on me that he actually did that. There is no

0:23:20 > 0:23:24excuse for his behaviour, none at all. I am so glad justice was

0:23:24 > 0:23:32served.Were you happy with the sentence?Not at first, I will be

0:23:32 > 0:23:40honest.A minimum of 16 years.For him to get a life sentence passed, I

0:23:40 > 0:23:49was lucky. There are other cases where you don't

0:23:49 > 0:23:52where you don't even have a conviction.That is because this is

0:23:52 > 0:23:56all part of your campaign now to look at this review of the law

0:23:56 > 0:24:01because I guess in your case it was pretty simple for the police to

0:24:01 > 0:24:04investigate. You were heavily pregnant, this was the father of

0:24:04 > 0:24:09your child, and he targeted specifically your stomach so in many

0:24:09 > 0:24:14ways it was easy to prosecute under that law.Exactly, because according

0:24:14 > 0:24:20to the law it is more about if the police can prove the intent, they

0:24:20 > 0:24:26can prove there was an intention to harm or destroy or kill a baby, that

0:24:26 > 0:24:33is when it is a lot easier for them to prosecute a perpetrator, but if

0:24:33 > 0:24:37it was a matter of recklessness, it is a lot harder to prove that

0:24:37 > 0:24:42because they may not have had the intention to harm the baby's life,

0:24:42 > 0:24:49but as a result their recklessness has essentially ended a baby's life.

0:24:49 > 0:24:54For example if a woman was in the early stages of pregnancy and maybe

0:24:54 > 0:24:59you cannot tell she's pregnant, but she is attacked and the child's

0:24:59 > 0:25:04diet, you feel that should be the same as what happened to you?

0:25:04 > 0:25:13Essentially yes, they should receive some justice and pregnancy should

0:25:13 > 0:25:17always be considered as an aggravating factor. As the law is so

0:25:17 > 0:25:22complex, it does save the child should be capable of being born

0:25:22 > 0:25:28alive, so at which stage is a child capable of being born alive? It is a

0:25:28 > 0:25:34matter of weeks so you need to review the intent and you need to

0:25:34 > 0:25:41review when do you consider a child being born alive.But if you are

0:25:41 > 0:25:45four months pregnant and it is very unlikely a baby would survive being

0:25:45 > 0:25:51born at that time, but it is still a baby, isn't it?Yes but in the eyes

0:25:51 > 0:25:57of the law and due to other ethical arguments and stuff, a conviction

0:25:57 > 0:26:05wouldn't pass so we have to tread carefully and make sure that the

0:26:05 > 0:26:12review actually is able to protect women all-round.How do you feel

0:26:12 > 0:26:19about child destruction law? The term itself is just so cold.Yes, it

0:26:19 > 0:26:26is, but it was created in 19 29th so things have vastly moved on, and

0:26:26 > 0:26:29that's the thing. That's why it needs to be reviewed because the

0:26:29 > 0:26:36whole reason why it was created was to actually tackle backstreet

0:26:36 > 0:26:42abortions. Since then, abortion laws have been passed, and the whole

0:26:42 > 0:26:45purpose for them using the law now is completely different to the

0:26:45 > 0:26:51reason why it was introduced.What reaction have you had from

0:26:51 > 0:26:56politicians when you have raised this?I have had support from Neil

0:26:56 > 0:27:01Coyle and Harriet Harman, they have been supportive in this. Since I've

0:27:01 > 0:27:05released the petition on social media, I have had a lot of support

0:27:05 > 0:27:10as well. A lot of positive responses. A few women have actually

0:27:10 > 0:27:16come forward to me and told me some of the similar experiences they have

0:27:16 > 0:27:20had, which is a good thing because at least I know I'm doing this for a

0:27:20 > 0:27:25good reason and I'm not just the only one that has experienced this.

0:27:25 > 0:27:34There are many other women who have gone through the same experience

0:27:34 > 0:27:39Azmi or something similar.Mallory, thank you for coming to talk to us.

0:27:39 > 0:27:45--

0:27:45 > 0:27:47-- Malorie

0:27:47 > 0:27:50-- Malorie.

0:27:50 > 0:27:51Still to come...

0:27:51 > 0:27:53We'll have the very latest on the investigation

0:27:53 > 0:27:55into the poisoning of a former spy and his daughter in Salisbury

0:27:55 > 0:27:58and the use of a military nerve agent on British soil.

0:27:58 > 0:28:01A significant rise in the number of children being excluded from school.

0:28:01 > 0:28:03As the government launches a new review,

0:28:03 > 0:28:05we'll be finding out what's going wrong and why certain groups

0:28:05 > 0:28:08of young people are far more likely to be kicked out of mainstream

0:28:08 > 0:28:09school than others.

0:28:09 > 0:28:12Time for the latest news.

0:28:12 > 0:28:14Here's Reeta with the BBC News headlines this morning.

0:28:14 > 0:28:16Officials in Florida say six people have been killed

0:28:16 > 0:28:19by a footbridge which collapsed onto a busy road in Miami.

0:28:19 > 0:28:21Eight vehicles were crushed when the walkway gave way, less

0:28:21 > 0:28:23than a week after being installed.

0:28:23 > 0:28:24The bridge at Florida International University

0:28:24 > 0:28:26was put up in one day, using a technique designed

0:28:26 > 0:28:28to minimise traffic disruption.

0:28:28 > 0:28:30Police say rescue teams will work throughout the day

0:28:30 > 0:28:32to search for survivors, but the number of dead

0:28:32 > 0:28:38is likely to rise.

0:28:38 > 0:28:40They are saying at least, because there is the possibility,

0:28:40 > 0:28:43the sad possibility, that under the concrete there may be

0:28:43 > 0:28:49additional vehicles.

0:28:49 > 0:28:52And they are trying to work at it, the engineers are working at it

0:28:52 > 0:28:54in a very tactical way.

0:28:54 > 0:28:56Because again, as I mentioned before, the structure is very

0:28:56 > 0:28:58fragile and it could be very dangerous to rescue personnel

0:28:58 > 0:29:00that are still there, people that are working.

0:29:00 > 0:29:02Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov,

0:29:02 > 0:29:04has confirmed Moscow will expel British diplomats.

0:29:04 > 0:29:07The move follows Theresa May's expulsion of 23 staff

0:29:07 > 0:29:09from the Russian embassy in London, over the nerve agent

0:29:09 > 0:29:11attack in Salisbury.

0:29:11 > 0:29:13Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned Russia's involvement

0:29:13 > 0:29:17in the poisoning of the former spy, Sergei Skripal, and

0:29:17 > 0:29:21his daughter, Yulia.

0:29:21 > 0:29:23One in four council-run secondary schools in England

0:29:23 > 0:29:26is running at a loss, according to new research

0:29:26 > 0:29:28by the Education Policy Institute.

0:29:28 > 0:29:30The number of schools in deficit has nearly trebled

0:29:30 > 0:29:32in the last four years.

0:29:32 > 0:29:34The government says it doesn't recognise the report's findings,

0:29:34 > 0:29:39and is putting an extra 1.3 billion pounds into schools.

0:29:39 > 0:29:41Syrian activists say nearly 20,000 civilians

0:29:41 > 0:29:43left the rebel enclave of Eastern Ghouta yesterday,

0:29:43 > 0:29:45in the biggest displacement of people since government forces

0:29:45 > 0:29:50intensified their assault last month.

0:29:50 > 0:29:53The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says

0:29:53 > 0:30:01the exodus stopped when rebels launched a counter-attack.

0:30:02 > 0:30:06African countries want the European Union to ban trade in antique Ivory

0:30:06 > 0:30:11saying it would cut demand by making ivory and unacceptable ornament.

0:30:11 > 0:30:15Thousands are killed for their elephant tusks each year.

0:30:15 > 0:30:21That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

0:30:21 > 0:30:26Lots of you getting in touch after we were talking to Mallory there.

0:30:26 > 0:30:29One person says, what an amazingly brave and articulate woman. I have

0:30:29 > 0:30:34nothing but respect for her. I remember this happening, I felt sick

0:30:34 > 0:30:38for her then, and I still do now. Another person getting in touch, my

0:30:38 > 0:30:42heart goes out to the young lady for what happened to her. I hope she

0:30:42 > 0:30:45gets a review on the child destruction law, best of luck to

0:30:45 > 0:30:49her. Get in touch with us on all the stories we are talking about.

0:30:49 > 0:30:57Sport now with Will.

0:31:00 > 0:31:02Today Ben Moore, James Barnes-Miller and Owen Pick

0:31:02 > 0:31:05all missed out on medals in their Winter Paralympic banked

0:31:05 > 0:31:08slalom events.

0:31:08 > 0:31:16Great Britain have five medals so far of the seven they targeted.

0:31:16 > 0:31:18Arsenal in the hat for the Europa League

0:31:18 > 0:31:20quarterfinal draw after beating AC Milan 3-1 last night.

0:31:20 > 0:31:22They went behind at the Emirates but recovered

0:31:22 > 0:31:25to score three times, winning the tie 5-1 on aggregate.

0:31:25 > 0:31:27Leg-spinner Mason Crane will miss out on the England tour of New

0:31:27 > 0:31:30Zealand. He has been replaced by Jack Leach. Trainer Nicky Henderson

0:31:30 > 0:31:36is chasing an historic treble in the Cheltenham Gold cup today. Victory

0:31:36 > 0:31:40would make Henderson the first trainer to win the Champion hurdle,

0:31:40 > 0:31:47Champion Chase and gold cup at one festival meeting.

0:31:47 > 0:31:49It's been an explosive week in the investigation into how

0:31:49 > 0:31:52a former Russian spy and his daughter came to be

0:31:52 > 0:31:53poisoned in Salisbury.

0:31:53 > 0:31:56Both are still in a critical condition and the police officer

0:31:56 > 0:31:58who went to help them remains in hospital.

0:31:58 > 0:32:01It's now been confirmed that the Novichok nerve agent was used -

0:32:01 > 0:32:03a chemical British authorities say was only manufactured

0:32:03 > 0:32:05in the former Soviet Union.

0:32:05 > 0:32:08Theresa May has ordered 23 Russian diplomats to leave the country

0:32:08 > 0:32:13and Russia has since vowed to retaliate in kind.

0:32:13 > 0:32:16But the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has again warned against being too

0:32:16 > 0:32:19hasty in pointing the finger at Russian President Vladimir Putin,

0:32:19 > 0:32:26sparking criticism from his own MPs.

0:32:26 > 0:32:28So before all of this happened, how bad were Anglo-Russian

0:32:28 > 0:32:31relations, and is this a move towards another Cold War?

0:32:31 > 0:32:35It's a spy story reminiscent of the darkest days of the Cold War,

0:32:35 > 0:32:38and it's caused an international rift that's left UK/Russia relations

0:32:38 > 0:32:40at their lowest ebb for decades.

0:32:40 > 0:32:43So, how did we get here?

0:32:43 > 0:32:46On the 4th of March, two people were found slumped

0:32:46 > 0:32:48on a bench outside a pizza restaurant in the quiet,

0:32:48 > 0:32:50picturesque town of Salisbury.

0:32:50 > 0:32:53They were said to be in an extremely serious condition.

0:32:53 > 0:32:58They were quickly identified as Sergei Skripal -

0:32:58 > 0:33:00a former Russian spy who defected to the British -

0:33:00 > 0:33:02and his 33-year-old daughter Yulia.

0:33:02 > 0:33:05In July 2010, Mr Skripal had been one of four prisoners released

0:33:05 > 0:33:08by Moscow in exchange for ten Russian spies.

0:33:08 > 0:33:10And by all accounts he'd lived a quiet life

0:33:10 > 0:33:15since arriving in the UK.

0:33:15 > 0:33:17As the police investigation progressed, traces of a nerve agent

0:33:17 > 0:33:21were found near the scene where the Skripals spent

0:33:21 > 0:33:23the afternoon, and it became clear that they'd been poisoned.

0:33:23 > 0:33:26The Skripals remain critically ill in hospital and a police officer

0:33:26 > 0:33:30who was also hospitalised after attending the incident,

0:33:30 > 0:33:33Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, is said to be in a

0:33:33 > 0:33:34serious condition.

0:33:34 > 0:33:36In addition, 38 others were seen by medics,

0:33:36 > 0:33:39although they've now nearly all been discharged.

0:33:39 > 0:33:41Prime Minister Theresa May later said the chemicals used

0:33:41 > 0:33:44in the attack had been identified as being part of a group

0:33:44 > 0:33:48of nerve agents developed by Russia, known as Novichok.

0:33:48 > 0:33:51On Monday she spoke in the House of Commons, asking pointedly

0:33:51 > 0:33:54for an explanation from the Russian government as to how this deadly

0:33:54 > 0:33:56chemical could have found its way onto British streets.

0:33:56 > 0:33:58There are therefore only two plausible explanations

0:33:58 > 0:34:02for what happened in Salisbury on the 4th of March.

0:34:02 > 0:34:05Either this was a direct act by the Russian state

0:34:05 > 0:34:09against our country, or the Russian government lost

0:34:09 > 0:34:12control of its potentially catastrophically damaging nerve

0:34:12 > 0:34:16agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.

0:34:16 > 0:34:19This afternoon, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has

0:34:19 > 0:34:24summoned the Russian ambassador to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office

0:34:24 > 0:34:27and asked him to explain which of these two possibilities it is.

0:34:27 > 0:34:32When no explanation was forthcoming, she came back to the House

0:34:32 > 0:34:34on Wednesday and announced that all high-level talks

0:34:34 > 0:34:36between UK officials and Russia would be suspended,

0:34:36 > 0:34:40and that the UK would expel 23 Russian diplomats from Britain.

0:34:40 > 0:34:44They have treated the use of the military grade nerve agent

0:34:44 > 0:34:49in Europe with sarcasm, contempt and defiance.

0:34:49 > 0:34:53So, Mr Speaker, there is no alternative conclusion other

0:34:53 > 0:34:55than that the Russian state was culpable for the attempted

0:34:55 > 0:34:58murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter.

0:34:58 > 0:35:02Meanwhile, the Kremlin has denied any links to the murder

0:35:02 > 0:35:05and condemned allegations of its involvement as a provocation.

0:35:05 > 0:35:08But many have drawn comparisons with the death

0:35:08 > 0:35:11of Alexander Litvinenko, a former Russian spy murdered

0:35:11 > 0:35:15with radioactive polonium in 2006, and pointed to other unexplained

0:35:15 > 0:35:21deaths of Russian nationals hostile to the Kremlin.

0:35:21 > 0:35:23Yesterday, Britain's allies France, the United States and Germany issued

0:35:23 > 0:35:25a joint statement condemning the first offensive use

0:35:25 > 0:35:28of a nerve agent in Europe since the Second World War.

0:35:28 > 0:35:31They called it an assault on the UK's sovereignty.

0:35:31 > 0:35:34With the UK/Russia relationship now under a dark cloud of mutual

0:35:34 > 0:35:36mistrust and tension, the likes of which haven't

0:35:36 > 0:35:39been seen for decades, many commentators have asked

0:35:39 > 0:35:42whether the alleged use of a chemical weapon in Britain may

0:35:42 > 0:35:46mean that the conclusion that Russia and the West are now in the grip

0:35:46 > 0:35:47of a second Cold War is unavoidable.

0:35:47 > 0:35:50Certainly, there's good reason to believe that things may well get

0:35:50 > 0:35:57worse before they get better.

0:35:57 > 0:35:59To talk us through that are John Lough -

0:35:59 > 0:36:04Former Nato representative in Moscow and Russia expert at Chatham House.

0:36:04 > 0:36:06And Edward Lucas - Author of The New Cold War

0:36:06 > 0:36:10and 'Deception, Spies, Lies and How Russia

0:36:10 > 0:36:14dupes the West.'

0:36:14 > 0:36:20Thank you for both joining us. John, how have we got to the stage where

0:36:20 > 0:36:25Russia comes on to British soil and attempts to murder someone? Our

0:36:25 > 0:36:28relations that bad that they can feel they can just come to Britain

0:36:28 > 0:36:34and act this way?I think the answer is yes. Relations have been very bad

0:36:34 > 0:36:40for a long time. In your preview piece you referred to the murder of

0:36:40 > 0:36:44Alexander Litvinenko in 2006. I think the Russians thought at the

0:36:44 > 0:36:48time they got away with this because there was a rather lame reaction

0:36:48 > 0:36:54from the government at the time. We kicked out some diplomats, we

0:36:54 > 0:36:57stopped talking to the Russian security services, but a nuclear

0:36:57 > 0:37:00weapon had been used on the streets of London and all the traces were

0:37:00 > 0:37:05there. They went back to Moscow and we were able to eventually identify

0:37:05 > 0:37:10who had carried out this murder. The public enquiry, which was held

0:37:10 > 0:37:15several years later, concluded that the order was probably given by the

0:37:15 > 0:37:19head of the Russian security service and President Putin, at least with

0:37:19 > 0:37:23their approval. So relations have been in a very poor state. The UK

0:37:23 > 0:37:28has tried to rebuild some dialogue, pursued a policy of engagement and

0:37:28 > 0:37:34deterrence. In other words, trying to deter this really damaging and

0:37:34 > 0:37:37dangerous behaviour by Russia. I would say there has been rather too

0:37:37 > 0:37:41much emphasis on engagement and rather less on deterrence. But this

0:37:41 > 0:37:48changes the game. The events of 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea and it

0:37:48 > 0:37:52destabilised eastern Ukraine, which almost brought about a very serious

0:37:52 > 0:37:57border conflict in Europe, that has sobered a number of mines in London.

0:37:57 > 0:38:05The reaction we are seeing this time is a little bit different to 2006.

0:38:05 > 0:38:10They have effectively stepped up. Edward, why do you think rationally

0:38:10 > 0:38:15used a nerve agent, Novichok, which is clearly from Russia, it almost

0:38:15 > 0:38:20has a Russian stamp on it. Were they being blatant, did they want to be

0:38:20 > 0:38:25found out or do they not care?The conclusion is they were doing it in

0:38:25 > 0:38:28a blatant way. If they just wanted to kill Sergei Skripal for some

0:38:28 > 0:38:32reason of their own, they could have done it very discreetly, but they

0:38:32 > 0:38:35did that in a very dangerous and reckless way that endangered the

0:38:35 > 0:38:39lives of so many other people in Salisbury who have nothing to do

0:38:39 > 0:38:43with the world of espionage and geo- political intrigue. I think they are

0:38:43 > 0:38:48testing us. I think they tried it in 2006 and they got away with it. They

0:38:48 > 0:38:53see that Britain is weak, isolated, isolated because of the

0:38:53 > 0:38:57transatlantic relationship being in trouble because of Donald J Trump,

0:38:57 > 0:38:59and isolated because our relationship with Europe is in

0:38:59 > 0:39:02trouble because of Brexit and we are desperate for international money.

0:39:02 > 0:39:06They think they can give is another knock and see if they cannot is over

0:39:06 > 0:39:12and show we are not able to respond to this of provocation.They might

0:39:12 > 0:39:17view us as weak, John, but will they care much that the US, France,

0:39:17 > 0:39:20Germany and the UK have released a joint statement saying it was Russia

0:39:20 > 0:39:26and it's not acceptable?I don't think they will care very much. This

0:39:26 > 0:39:30is largely hot air, they will think, and is there really the willingness

0:39:30 > 0:39:38on the part of the leading Western countries to Russia and invest in

0:39:38 > 0:39:42defences and play this out over the longer term? That's where the

0:39:42 > 0:39:47Russian vulnerability is. I don't believe it can sustain this sort of

0:39:47 > 0:39:50posture indefinitely. It's costing the country money, opportunities.

0:39:50 > 0:39:54The economy is not doing particularly well. What the Russians

0:39:54 > 0:39:58are very skilful at is assembling power, putting together instruments

0:39:58 > 0:40:02of power that they can deploy against our weaknesses. They are

0:40:02 > 0:40:07able to identify our weakness is very effectively. They can see the

0:40:07 > 0:40:10shift in the transatlantic relationship and the fishes in Nato.

0:40:10 > 0:40:19They can see society is in particular. It has reduced the

0:40:19 > 0:40:22influence of the United States and Europe, and is likely to do so, and

0:40:22 > 0:40:27the UK is looking rather isolated. Edward, are we heading to a new Cold

0:40:27 > 0:40:33War?I released a book in 2007 called the new Cold War, and people

0:40:33 > 0:40:36criticised me for scaremongering at the time but I was not gloomy

0:40:36 > 0:40:40enough. I was mainly worried about money and the military threat in

0:40:40 > 0:40:44some corners of Europe. I didn't think that we were going to face

0:40:44 > 0:40:50this kind of really effective propaganda blitz which we face all

0:40:50 > 0:40:53over Europe now, which is demoralising and dividing society.

0:40:53 > 0:40:57It never crossed my mind Russia would be able to be intervening in

0:40:57 > 0:41:01the American political system in the way that it has. We have been

0:41:01 > 0:41:04complacent and arrogant, and Russia has been getting stronger and

0:41:04 > 0:41:09stronger. What annoys me is we were warned about this in the 1990s by

0:41:09 > 0:41:13our friends in Eastern Europe, and we ignored them, patronised and

0:41:13 > 0:41:16belittled them, saying we understood Russia better than they did. It's

0:41:16 > 0:41:21the other way round, they understood what was happening and we didn't.

0:41:21 > 0:41:26Let's talk about gas if we can. Britain is reliant on Russian gas

0:41:26 > 0:41:30supplies. Before Christmas there were times when it was needed. Are

0:41:30 > 0:41:35the Russians likely to use that as a lever against us, saying they will

0:41:35 > 0:41:42not provide it?I think it's about 1% of our gas supply.We still used

0:41:42 > 0:41:48some before Christmas.We used some. The world is awash with liquid gas.

0:41:48 > 0:41:5220 years ago gas all came through pipelines but now we can buy it by

0:41:52 > 0:41:56the tank load, just the way we buy oil. You might have to buy it in

0:41:56 > 0:42:00advance because the tankers don't move fast, but we can supply all our

0:42:00 > 0:42:04gas needs without being dependent on Russian liquefied natural gas. It

0:42:04 > 0:42:10might be the cheapest around, but we can avoid it if we want to. Russia

0:42:10 > 0:42:13has a political weapon in Eastern Europe because of pipelines, but

0:42:13 > 0:42:17even there, the EU in the last ten years has built new pipelines and

0:42:17 > 0:42:24storage capacity to the point what we used to call the abominable

0:42:24 > 0:42:28gasman of Russia, the gas pressure on the east of Europe, that has

0:42:28 > 0:42:32almost diminished. We are in pretty good shape on that front. I'm more

0:42:32 > 0:42:36worried about Russian dirty money in politics and media over here.We

0:42:36 > 0:42:41will be talking about this again in the next half an hour. Thank you to

0:42:41 > 0:42:44John and Edward for speaking to us.

0:42:44 > 0:42:47Coming up...

0:42:47 > 0:42:50Fashion retailer Topman have come under fire for a shirt that some

0:42:50 > 0:42:53people believe refers to the Hillsborough disaster -

0:42:53 > 0:42:57we'll be getting reaction.

0:42:57 > 0:43:03They have stopped selling the shirt.

0:43:03 > 0:43:05On this programme we've recently highlighted a significant rise

0:43:05 > 0:43:11in the number of children being excluded from school.

0:43:11 > 0:43:13Last year - more than 6500 students were permanently

0:43:13 > 0:43:16kicked out of mainstream schools in England But WAY more than that -

0:43:16 > 0:43:1948,000 - are being educated in units set up for children

0:43:19 > 0:43:20who've been excluded.

0:43:20 > 0:43:21Today, the government's announced plans

0:43:21 > 0:43:24for a review to find out exactly what's going wrong and why certain

0:43:24 > 0:43:27groups of people are far more affected by the problem than others.

0:43:27 > 0:43:29For example - if you're an Afro-Caribbean boy,

0:43:29 > 0:43:32you're three times more likely to be excluded than other children,

0:43:32 > 0:43:36kids in care are five times more likely to be excluded.

0:43:36 > 0:43:38Last month, we visited Hawkswood Primary Pupil

0:43:38 > 0:43:41Referral Unit in London - it's a school for children,

0:43:41 > 0:43:42who are in danger of being permanently excluded

0:43:42 > 0:43:45from their mainstream schools.

0:43:45 > 0:43:48Have a look at this short clip from the programme -

0:43:48 > 0:43:52it features a six-year-old boy called Kayden, who'd been previously

0:43:52 > 0:43:57excluded and is now learning to control his behaviour.

0:43:57 > 0:44:00Careful!

0:44:00 > 0:44:02Careful!

0:44:02 > 0:44:05Kayden lives with his nanny and grandad.

0:44:05 > 0:44:09Sometimes we do family game night.

0:44:09 > 0:44:13What do you play?

0:44:13 > 0:44:14We play Jenga...

0:44:14 > 0:44:16And Pie Face, the new one.

0:44:16 > 0:44:17Grandad?

0:44:17 > 0:44:19Yep?

0:44:19 > 0:44:21After this, when I win...

0:44:21 > 0:44:24When Kayden came into our life, then I realised there was more

0:44:24 > 0:44:28issues going on than just a typical little boy.

0:44:28 > 0:44:31The darkest point, I think, for us, was knowing that he was having

0:44:31 > 0:44:34really bad meltdowns at school, and the school was

0:44:34 > 0:44:36unable to manage that.

0:44:36 > 0:44:39He was climbing up on furniture, he was lifting up tables, throwing

0:44:39 > 0:44:43objects around the classrooms.

0:44:43 > 0:44:46It was just really disturbing for other children to see.

0:44:46 > 0:44:54INDISTINCT SHOUTING.

0:44:54 > 0:44:58Come here.

0:44:58 > 0:45:01Leave me alone!

0:45:01 > 0:45:04I just want to be left alone!

0:45:04 > 0:45:06OK, then, I can take you to the blue chair,

0:45:06 > 0:45:07I can leave you alone there.

0:45:07 > 0:45:09I just want to be left alone!

0:45:09 > 0:45:11I want to be left alone!

0:45:11 > 0:45:13You want to be left alone?

0:45:13 > 0:45:15It's not safe for me to leave you here.

0:45:15 > 0:45:16I want to!

0:45:16 > 0:45:19I can leave you alone, I can leave you alone, but not here.

0:45:19 > 0:45:21Here is not the place.

0:45:21 > 0:45:24I can leave you alone inside the classroom on the blue chair.

0:45:24 > 0:45:25I don't...!

0:45:25 > 0:45:28You know you're not allowed to hit me, Kayden.

0:45:28 > 0:45:29I don't even care!

0:45:29 > 0:45:30OK, well, I do care.

0:45:30 > 0:45:32I don't care!

0:45:32 > 0:45:35I don't like it.

0:45:37 > 0:45:39Kayden, why are we here on the floor?

0:45:39 > 0:45:42Are you able to use your words and tell me what's happened?

0:45:42 > 0:45:45OK, that's fine, but this isn't a very safe place to be,

0:45:45 > 0:45:47in the middle of the corridor.

0:45:47 > 0:45:48I don't even care!

0:45:48 > 0:45:51You don't need to care, you just need to know that we do.

0:45:51 > 0:45:54He almost ran from the noise, and I would say it distressed him,

0:45:54 > 0:45:58and then that lead onto undesired behaviour.

0:45:58 > 0:46:01I know that he wanted a little bit of peace and quiet to calm down.

0:46:01 > 0:46:04Kayden, can we go to a safer place than the corridor?

0:46:04 > 0:46:05That's a bit quieter?

0:46:05 > 0:46:09He was kind of stuck in the moment, so you try a few different tactics.

0:46:09 > 0:46:10Well done.

0:46:10 > 0:46:12Can I show you something before we go?

0:46:12 > 0:46:14I just want to show you something, look.

0:46:14 > 0:46:16We said, "Oh, have you seen our new library?

0:46:16 > 0:46:17Do you want to go in?"

0:46:17 > 0:46:20And that was it, he came right out of it.

0:46:20 > 0:46:21And that's my favourite.

0:46:21 > 0:46:22No way?!

0:46:22 > 0:46:23That is your favourite book?!

0:46:23 > 0:46:24Are you serious?!

0:46:24 > 0:46:25Oh, my goodness!

0:46:25 > 0:46:26Right...

0:46:26 > 0:46:27That's Lego Batman.

0:46:27 > 0:46:34Do you know what we're going to do?

0:46:34 > 0:46:35That was distraction.

0:46:35 > 0:46:40In that moment, that's what brought him down again.

0:46:40 > 0:46:43So he's been in education to two and half years

0:46:43 > 0:46:44and still can't read and write.

0:46:44 > 0:46:45He would never have done that.

0:46:45 > 0:46:48He could just about write his name and maybe single words,

0:46:48 > 0:46:53but that's only since he's been at Hawkswood.

0:46:53 > 0:46:55There's been a drastic change in Kayden.

0:46:55 > 0:46:58He can sit down now for at least five, ten minutes

0:46:58 > 0:46:59and actually play a game.

0:46:59 > 0:47:02He can do a little bit of reading with us now.

0:47:02 > 0:47:04He can sit, you know, and just eat his dinner.

0:47:04 > 0:47:07Wow, so did you have lots of fun at school today?

0:47:07 > 0:47:08We don't take Kayden out very often.

0:47:08 > 0:47:11We struggle with the fact that we are worried that

0:47:11 > 0:47:14Kayden's going to run off, or he has meltdowns and then we've

0:47:14 > 0:47:16got to try to explain that to parents or people that

0:47:16 > 0:47:21are staring and looking.

0:47:21 > 0:47:24And I think it's the hardest thing is to try to explain

0:47:24 > 0:47:27to someone that, actually, "I'm really sorry that my child has

0:47:27 > 0:47:30done this to your child, or done it it to you or whatever,

0:47:30 > 0:47:31but you can't label a child."

0:47:31 > 0:47:34Kayden is not diagnosed, so until that diagnosis has been

0:47:34 > 0:47:37made, I will not put a label on him.

0:47:37 > 0:47:40A little earlier we spoke to Nadhim Zahawi, who's the Children

0:47:40 > 0:47:42and Families Minister, about the government's plans to look

0:47:42 > 0:47:45into why so many children are being excluded and why certain

0:47:45 > 0:47:48groups are more affected than others.

0:47:48 > 0:47:51No alternative provision should be a dumping ground for anyone.

0:47:51 > 0:47:55I think the right thing to do is for us to review

0:47:55 > 0:47:59what is happening with exclusions and have a strategy to make sure

0:47:59 > 0:48:01alternative provision is the best quality we can make it,

0:48:01 > 0:48:05so the outcomes for all those children, whether they are

0:48:05 > 0:48:08reintegrated into mainstream, or have to be in alternative

0:48:08 > 0:48:14specialist provision, actually get the best educational

0:48:14 > 0:48:16attainment, and, of course, the best outcome in terms

0:48:16 > 0:48:20of employment or training for them in the future.

0:48:20 > 0:48:23That's the purpose of this.

0:48:23 > 0:48:28It's why we are also launching the 4 million Innovation Fund

0:48:28 > 0:48:30to look at best practice in alternative provision and see

0:48:30 > 0:48:32how we scale that up.

0:48:32 > 0:48:35I mentioned the Anna Freud centres and the work they are doing.

0:48:35 > 0:48:37I think one of your particular examples of a young man

0:48:37 > 0:48:40at the Everton School...

0:48:40 > 0:48:43The Education Select Committee hasn't given its final findings.

0:48:43 > 0:48:45It's expected to look pretty bad for the government.

0:48:45 > 0:48:48Is this why the government has come out now ahead

0:48:48 > 0:48:50of that final report, to try and show that it is

0:48:50 > 0:48:52taking some initiative?

0:48:52 > 0:48:54It's not going to look good for you.

0:48:54 > 0:48:56You mentioned the £4 million that is being ploughed

0:48:56 > 0:48:58into this Innovation Fund.

0:48:58 > 0:49:02£4 million, it's not a lot of money.

0:49:02 > 0:49:06Well, the Education Select Committee work is incredibly important.

0:49:06 > 0:49:13It is a serious committee, with serious colleagues,

0:49:13 > 0:49:16a cross-party and they look at this in real depth and we

0:49:16 > 0:49:17always listen to them.

0:49:17 > 0:49:20I was before them looking at the fostering review we asked

0:49:20 > 0:49:22of Sir Martin Narey and Mark Owers,

0:49:22 > 0:49:24and of course their own report into fostering

0:49:24 > 0:49:29in our country this week.

0:49:29 > 0:49:30So their work is incredibly important.

0:49:30 > 0:49:33But this review and the work that the Prime Minister has

0:49:33 > 0:49:35asked Ed Timpson to do is incredibly important.

0:49:35 > 0:49:43Look, she's the first Prime Minister to actually ask for a race disparity

0:49:43 > 0:49:46order and publish it, and ask all her departments to step

0:49:46 > 0:49:53up and explain or take action as to what we do about these things.

0:49:53 > 0:49:55And through that we discover that Afro-Caribbean boys are three times

0:49:55 > 0:49:57more likely to be excluded.

0:49:57 > 0:50:00This is serious work, and this idea that somehow we react

0:50:00 > 0:50:05because of the select committee...

0:50:05 > 0:50:09Of course it's important work, but this has been on our radar

0:50:09 > 0:50:12for a long time, and it's right that we review what is happening

0:50:12 > 0:50:15as we begin to get outcomes for children in alternative provision,

0:50:15 > 0:50:23so it's the best possible that we can make it.

0:50:24 > 0:50:27Let's talk to Gilroy Northover - he was excluded from school

0:50:27 > 0:50:29and now works at the same Pupil Referral Unit

0:50:29 > 0:50:33where he was sent.

0:50:33 > 0:50:35Brenda McHugh - set up the family school,

0:50:35 > 0:50:38an Alternative Provision School in London.

0:50:38 > 0:50:41And Zack Kelly - he was excluded from school while in care,

0:50:41 > 0:50:43he went to Everton Free School, which is an alternative

0:50:43 > 0:50:44provision school.

0:50:44 > 0:50:52He now works at Everton Football Club.

0:50:56 > 0:51:00I want to start with you because you were excluded from school when you

0:51:00 > 0:51:06were at 15, what do you put that down to?Not enough support at home,

0:51:06 > 0:51:20could you be diagnosed with dyslexia or something else. Mainstream school

0:51:20 > 0:51:25doesn't dig in that deep to a child because there's 30 in a class, if

0:51:25 > 0:51:29one is being disruptive get rid of the one rather than the 29 so we

0:51:29 > 0:51:34don't know if that child has something going on at home, if that

0:51:34 > 0:51:40child is being abused or neglected. What was your need that wasn't

0:51:40 > 0:51:44recognised?I was going through different things, my mum was a

0:51:44 > 0:51:50single parent of four, I am the youngest. I was calling out for

0:51:50 > 0:51:57help, however I cannot articulate my words because as well as being a boy

0:51:57 > 0:52:00child, we are in a generation where we cannot express our emotions so we

0:52:00 > 0:52:04are in a world where if a man expresses his emotions it is a sign

0:52:04 > 0:52:08of weakness so you don't want to get labelled as weakness in secondary

0:52:08 > 0:52:12school because peer pressure comes into it, you could get bullied, so

0:52:12 > 0:52:17you have to create this bravado where you have to be at the top.You

0:52:17 > 0:52:25are strong but crying out for help. That's right.Zack, can you identify

0:52:25 > 0:52:33with that? Because you were in care, then excluded.It was because I was

0:52:33 > 0:52:38going through a lot of stuff at home at the time and I was in and out of

0:52:38 > 0:52:43care over the years while I was still at school. I have a lot going

0:52:43 > 0:52:48on in my head and at home, a lot of issues going on. When I went into

0:52:48 > 0:52:53school, because I didn't really know how to release those emotions, when

0:52:53 > 0:52:58I was speaking to someone I would be lashing out and misbehaving at

0:52:58 > 0:53:04school so that forced me to either get excluded or suspended due to my

0:53:04 > 0:53:07behaviour.Does it surprise you when you hear the statistic that children

0:53:07 > 0:53:17in care are five times more likely to be excluded from school?Yes

0:53:18 > 0:53:22because this is crazy because many people growing up in care, they

0:53:22 > 0:53:28don't necessarily, some people haven't been kicked out of school

0:53:28 > 0:53:31and people have different stories and backgrounds. It is quite crazy

0:53:31 > 0:53:40to hear that to be honest because many people have either got issues

0:53:40 > 0:53:43at home, issues in their personal life so everyone is going through a

0:53:43 > 0:53:51different story in their life.

0:53:51 > 0:53:53different story in their life. Most people have been excluded from

0:53:53 > 0:53:59school, being in care, it is a crazy statistic really.Let's bring Brenda

0:53:59 > 0:54:03in because I know that you set up this family school and one of the

0:54:03 > 0:54:06particular focuses is on mental health support because you see that

0:54:06 > 0:54:14as being... Missing, in mainstream education?I think that is why Anna

0:54:14 > 0:54:24Freud set up the family school because we know from Gilroy and Zack

0:54:24 > 0:54:29that behaviour masks difficulties, and striving to find out what lies

0:54:29 > 0:54:32behind that behaviour, because that behaviour is quite often an exit

0:54:32 > 0:54:36from an opportunity to be in a mainstream school where there are

0:54:36 > 0:54:41lots of life opportunities for young children. So really important not

0:54:41 > 0:54:46just think is it one thing, but to have an enquiring mind, to have time

0:54:46 > 0:54:50and the expertise to be able to think what lies behind this

0:54:50 > 0:54:56behaviour, and what can we do to support that young person. In the

0:54:56 > 0:55:04case of Gilroy, the family as well, in order to

0:55:04 > 0:55:06in order to resolve of those problems because if the family where

0:55:06 > 0:55:10you live is going to support you back into school, you would need to

0:55:10 > 0:55:12trust they have the skills and confidence.What happens if the

0:55:12 > 0:55:19family are not supportive, because I guess the -- that is the challenge.

0:55:19 > 0:55:27They might not have the time because of the practicalities of life.The

0:55:27 > 0:55:31children we meet often tell heart-rending stories about the

0:55:31 > 0:55:35impact of exclusion on them. They may be at work, get a phone call,

0:55:35 > 0:55:40they need to pick up their child or the impact on the other children.

0:55:40 > 0:55:45The family life is completely disrupted by the exclusion so many

0:55:45 > 0:55:50of our families, by the time they get together and come to the Family

0:55:50 > 0:55:55School, they say thank goodness, I'm also meeting other families that

0:55:55 > 0:56:00have felt the shame or hopelessness of exclusion and now I feel I am

0:56:00 > 0:56:06somewhere, like you were saying, where I say I actually have

0:56:06 > 0:56:10difficulties and I'm not going to be judged by this and I'm ready to get

0:56:10 > 0:56:14the help. Families come saying, at least now we are in the same boat

0:56:14 > 0:56:19and we can begin to think, what is going wrong with my child?So what

0:56:19 > 0:56:25is the solution? We spoke about children in care five times more

0:56:25 > 0:56:29likely to be excluded, black boys three times more likely to be

0:56:29 > 0:56:35excluded. What is the solution to that?The solution, as I said

0:56:35 > 0:56:39before, we need more key workers, more mentors to come into mainstream

0:56:39 > 0:56:44schools and be one-to-one with these children, and children need to get

0:56:44 > 0:56:48support at their houses as well. If they are at work and they cannot

0:56:48 > 0:56:53support them, they should have a key worker in place for that child.

0:56:53 > 0:57:00People listening to this, and Zack is nodding his head, the problem is

0:57:00 > 0:57:05lots of secondary schools are in deficit, there was a real crisis in

0:57:05 > 0:57:17funding. My own children's schools are forever having meetings about

0:57:17 > 0:57:24how to raise money.

0:57:24 > 0:57:27how to raise money.In 2020 we should have 17 schools open across

0:57:27 > 0:57:32different borrowers so we are all connected and we can all go to

0:57:32 > 0:57:36different units and experience and learn different things from

0:57:36 > 0:57:42different schools we work in to improve, as well as see how

0:57:42 > 0:57:47different systems work in different schools.Zack, what do you think

0:57:47 > 0:57:53would be a way to tackle this and stop so many children being

0:57:53 > 0:57:59excluded?It is similar to what Gilroy said, there is an really a

0:57:59 > 0:58:06lot of support around young children. To have meant touring

0:58:06 > 0:58:10scheme in place, if a young person is getting in trouble and at risk of

0:58:10 > 0:58:19exclusion, so I think it would be good if there could be a system that

0:58:19 > 0:58:25comes together where, if the child is in the process of going down the

0:58:25 > 0:58:31wrong road, then they can be pulled out straightaway again and given the

0:58:31 > 0:58:34support and management may need.It is the only intervention we hear

0:58:34 > 0:58:38about so often, and it always comes down to money which is the tricky

0:58:38 > 0:58:44point. One person has got in touch saying, possible unconscious bias

0:58:44 > 0:58:49towards Afro-Caribbean boys in my opinion. School-age black boys who

0:58:49 > 0:58:54hit puberty earlier can be intimidating to teachers with more

0:58:54 > 0:58:57muscles and a deeper voice than other demographics but the reality

0:58:57 > 0:59:01is they are still children. Another one says, it's all about competition

0:59:01 > 0:59:06between schools which means some schools would rather get rid of kids

0:59:06 > 0:59:09that affect their reputation, this is wrong and should not be

0:59:09 > 0:59:16happening. Get in touch on the hashtag Victoria live. Thank you so

0:59:16 > 0:59:20much for coming in this morning. Now let's get the latest weather with

0:59:20 > 0:59:30Lucy Martin. It's not going to be a good weekend, is it?

0:59:30 > 0:59:34It's turning much colder as we head into the weekend with a mini beast

0:59:34 > 0:59:38from east bringing colder conditions. By the time we get to

0:59:38 > 0:59:42tomorrow we are struggling to reach five Celsius after a potential 14

0:59:42 > 0:59:46today. Mixed fortunes with how much sunshine we'll see. This photo from

0:59:46 > 0:59:52North Wales but it's brighter in Kent, blue skies to start the day,

0:59:52 > 0:59:56although there are patches of mist and fog. Outbreaks of rain today

0:59:56 > 0:59:59across north-east Scotland and North East England, some falling as snow

0:59:59 > 1:00:03over high ground. Cloudy with outbreaks of rain over Northern

1:00:03 > 1:00:06Ireland and north-west England. Brightening up with rain in the

1:00:06 > 1:00:14Midlands and North Wales, good spells of sunshine, but perhaps some

1:00:14 > 1:00:18heavy and thundery showers. A high of 14 Celsius but it will be windy

1:00:18 > 1:00:21in the north. This evening and overnight, the rain will turn to

1:00:21 > 1:00:25snow even of lower levels and it will start to sink South and West

1:00:25 > 1:00:29into parts of the Midlands, East Anglia and maybe Wales as well. The

1:00:29 > 1:00:32wind started to strengthen in the south with temperatures largely

1:00:32 > 1:00:34falling below zero. The far south-west holding onto some

1:00:34 > 1:00:40slightly milder temperatures. As we move on to the weekend, high

1:00:40 > 1:00:45pressure over Scandinavia, pulling in really cold air from the east, a

1:00:45 > 1:00:49similar setup to what we saw a few weeks ago. Doesn't look like it will

1:00:49 > 1:00:54be for as long, just the weekend. A much colder start to tomorrow,

1:00:54 > 1:00:57Apache outbreaks of rain, sleet and snow clearing the south-west in the

1:00:57 > 1:01:03morning. Snow showers feeding in from East. The far north-west just

1:01:03 > 1:01:06staying dry in Scotland. Temperatures staying largely in low

1:01:06 > 1:01:11single figures, but when we had in the brisk north-easterly wind, it's

1:01:11 > 1:01:15feeling significantly colder, -7 in Norwich. As we head into Sunday,

1:01:15 > 1:01:23perhaps a longer spell of snow for a time. A little bit of uncertainty as

1:01:23 > 1:01:28to the exact position of the sunny spells. Stay tuned to the forecast.

1:01:28 > 1:01:35Cold start the day on Sunday, some of ice. Possible disruption. Snow

1:01:35 > 1:01:39patches moving west as we had through the day. It will not feel

1:01:39 > 1:01:44warm with temperatures in the single figures when we add in the wind,

1:01:44 > 1:01:52feeling very cold. Into the weekend, thing turning colder. Perhaps

1:01:52 > 1:01:56turning to 14 Celsius today, but struggling over the weekend. The

1:01:56 > 1:02:00wind will make it feel significant the colder and there is some snow in

1:02:00 > 1:02:03the forecast. Take care and keep up-to-date with the forecast as we

1:02:03 > 1:02:05head into the next few days.

1:02:11 > 1:02:15Hello it's Friday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley...

1:02:15 > 1:02:17Our top story - calls for Jeremy Corbyn to take

1:02:17 > 1:02:20a tougher line after he warns against 'hasty judgements' over

1:02:20 > 1:02:22who poisoned a Russian spy and his daughter.

1:02:22 > 1:02:24In a newspaper article he says 'let's not manufacture a division

1:02:24 > 1:02:26over Russia where none exists'.

1:02:26 > 1:02:27The evidence points towards Russia on this.

1:02:27 > 1:02:29Therefore, the responsibility must be borne by those

1:02:29 > 1:02:31that made the weapon, those that brought the weapon

1:02:31 > 1:02:34into the country and those that used the weapon.

1:02:34 > 1:02:36What I was asking were questions -

1:02:36 > 1:02:42questions about the identity of the weapon.

1:02:42 > 1:02:44Questions about the reference to the Weapons Convention.

1:02:44 > 1:02:51And also the support of other allies in this.

1:02:51 > 1:02:54If you are a nation ans=d nother nation has launched a nerve agent

1:02:54 > 1:02:57attack on your people, then we have every right to tell

1:02:57 > 1:02:58Russia to shut up and go away.

1:02:58 > 1:03:01I think the Prime Minister was absolutely right to expel those

1:03:01 > 1:03:05diplomats and the actions we are taking.

1:03:05 > 1:03:08We'll get reaction to this - and find out whether other countries

1:03:08 > 1:03:11- who've said they support Theresa May - are likely to take any

1:03:11 > 1:03:12action against Russia.

1:03:12 > 1:03:15One of the nation's favourite soaps Coronation Street is to screen

1:03:15 > 1:03:19a harrowing male rape storyline.

1:03:19 > 1:03:23We'll hear from one man who has been raped twice

1:03:23 > 1:03:28and also from Coronation Street's producer.

1:03:28 > 1:03:29Retailer Top Man tells this programme it will no

1:03:29 > 1:03:32longer sell this shirt after criticism from some people

1:03:32 > 1:03:34who believe it refers to the Hillsborough disaster.

1:03:34 > 1:03:37When the £20 shirt went on sale online and in stores it

1:03:37 > 1:03:39provoked a furious reaction from Liverpool fans,

1:03:39 > 1:03:44who took to Twitter.

1:03:44 > 1:03:46The retailer Top Man told this programme it apologises

1:03:46 > 1:03:49unreservedly for any offence caused by the shirt and has

1:03:49 > 1:03:57removed it from sale.

1:03:58 > 1:04:08It's coming up to 10.0 4am. We can go to the BBC newsroom for a summary

1:04:08 > 1:04:11of today's news.

1:04:11 > 1:04:13Officials in Florida say six people have been killed

1:04:13 > 1:04:16by a footbridge which collapsed onto a busy road in Miami.

1:04:16 > 1:04:18Eight vehicles were crushed when the walkway gave way, less

1:04:18 > 1:04:20than a week after being installed.

1:04:20 > 1:04:21The bridge at Florida International University

1:04:21 > 1:04:24was put up in one day, using a technique designed

1:04:24 > 1:04:25to minimise traffic disruption.

1:04:25 > 1:04:27Police say rescue teams will work throughout the day

1:04:27 > 1:04:29to search for survivors, but the number of dead

1:04:29 > 1:04:31is likely to rise.

1:04:31 > 1:04:37This has turned from a rescue into a recovery operation. We are able to

1:04:37 > 1:04:40confirm to you at this point, and you have to stand this is a very

1:04:40 > 1:04:42slow process and they are still working away at the concrete.

1:04:42 > 1:04:46Engineers told us last night that it has to be done very carefully, not

1:04:46 > 1:04:51only because of the fact we have to preserve evidence and there may be

1:04:51 > 1:04:54possible victims under there and we have to treat it delicately, but

1:04:54 > 1:05:00also the safety of the rescuers as well. Because of the unstable nature

1:05:00 > 1:05:03of the bridge right now. It's a very slow process and they have been

1:05:03 > 1:05:08working all night long. They are still working. We can confirm at

1:05:08 > 1:05:12this point that at least there are six fatalities.

1:05:12 > 1:05:14They are saying at least, because there is the possibility,

1:05:14 > 1:05:16the sad possibility, that under the concrete there may be

1:05:16 > 1:05:19additional vehicles.

1:05:19 > 1:05:23And they are trying to work at it, the engineers are working at it

1:05:23 > 1:05:24in a very tactical way.

1:05:24 > 1:05:28Because again, as I mentioned before, the structure is very

1:05:28 > 1:05:31fragile and it could be very dangerous to rescue personnel

1:05:31 > 1:05:34that are still there, people that are working.

1:05:34 > 1:05:35Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov,

1:05:35 > 1:05:38has confirmed Moscow will expel British diplomats.

1:05:38 > 1:05:40The move follows Theresa May's expulsion of 23 staff

1:05:40 > 1:05:42from the Russian embassy in London, over the nerve agent

1:05:42 > 1:05:45attack in Salisbury.

1:05:45 > 1:05:48Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned Russia's involvement

1:05:48 > 1:05:51in the poisoning of the former spy, Sergei Skripal, and

1:05:51 > 1:05:55his daughter, Yulia.

1:05:55 > 1:05:57One in four council-run secondary schools in England

1:05:57 > 1:05:59is running at a loss, according to new research

1:05:59 > 1:06:00by the Education Policy Institute.

1:06:00 > 1:06:02The number of schools in deficit has nearly trebled

1:06:02 > 1:06:04in the last four years.

1:06:04 > 1:06:09The government says it doesn't recognise the report's findings,

1:06:09 > 1:06:14and is putting an extra £1.3 billion into schools.

1:06:14 > 1:06:16One in four council-run secondary schools in England

1:06:16 > 1:06:18is running at a loss, according to new research

1:06:18 > 1:06:20by the Education Policy Institute.

1:06:20 > 1:06:22The number of schools in deficit has nearly trebled

1:06:22 > 1:06:24in the last four years.

1:06:24 > 1:06:26The government says it doesn't recognise the report's findings,

1:06:26 > 1:06:30and is putting an extra £1.3 billion into schools.

1:06:30 > 1:06:34MPs say they've been unable to identify a border solution

1:06:34 > 1:06:37operating anywhere in the world that would enable an invisible border

1:06:37 > 1:06:40to continue between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic after Brexit.

1:06:40 > 1:06:41The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee has called

1:06:41 > 1:06:44on the government to set out more details on how it will manage

1:06:44 > 1:06:47the movement of people and goods across the Irish border.

1:06:47 > 1:06:49It's also warned that, without a transition period,

1:06:49 > 1:06:51there won't be enough time to put new arrangements in place

1:06:51 > 1:06:54by withdrawal day.

1:06:54 > 1:06:57Egypt is to send a delegation of MPs to the UK,

1:06:57 > 1:07:00following the death of an Egyptian student in Nottingham.

1:07:00 > 1:07:0118-year-old Mariam Moustafa died on Wednesday,

1:07:01 > 1:07:04nearly a month after being attacked in the city centre.

1:07:04 > 1:07:06The hashtag "Mariam's rights will not be lost" has

1:07:06 > 1:07:14been trending in Egypt.

1:07:15 > 1:07:16Syrian activists say nearly 20,000 civilians

1:07:16 > 1:07:18left the rebel enclave of Eastern Ghouta yesterday,

1:07:18 > 1:07:21in the biggest displacement of people since government forces

1:07:21 > 1:07:22intensified their assault last month.

1:07:22 > 1:07:24The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says

1:07:24 > 1:07:32the exodus stopped when rebels launched a counter-attack.

1:07:38 > 1:07:44That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

1:07:44 > 1:07:49Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

1:07:49 > 1:07:51use the hashtag Victoria Live

1:07:51 > 1:07:57and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

1:07:57 > 1:08:02Time for some sports now. Another day to forget for Great Britain's

1:08:02 > 1:08:05Benmore, James Barnes Miller and Owen Pickard after they failed to

1:08:05 > 1:08:08make the podium in the boardercross earlier this week. Paralympics GB

1:08:08 > 1:08:16have five medals in Pyeongchang, behind the UK sport target of 6-12

1:08:16 > 1:08:20with two days after competition.I'm gutted. This was my event. I came

1:08:20 > 1:08:24here to do well in this event and I'm upset. But there's nothing I can

1:08:24 > 1:08:28do about it now. I can't change what happened. I did whatever I could and

1:08:28 > 1:08:38it wasn't enough this time.

1:08:39 > 1:08:42Arsenal will find out this morning who they'll play in the quarter

1:08:42 > 1:08:43finals of the Eurpa League.

1:08:43 > 1:08:46Danny Welbeck scored twice last night as they beat AC Milan 3-1

1:08:46 > 1:08:48with Arsene Wenger's side cruising through 5-1 on aggregate.

1:08:48 > 1:08:50Wenger says he wants to avoid Atletico Madrid,

1:08:50 > 1:08:53when the draw is made at midday and After losing to Manchester City

1:08:53 > 1:08:56twice and Brighton before the first leg he believes they've proved a few

1:08:56 > 1:08:57people wrong.

1:08:57 > 1:09:03We had a nightmare week. And to recover from that you need to be

1:09:03 > 1:09:10mentally strong. You need to be solid. And the team needs to show a

1:09:10 > 1:09:19together response. That's what we did. Overall, I think many people

1:09:19 > 1:09:25didn't expect us to respond like we did.

1:09:27 > 1:09:30Leg-spinner Mason Crane will miss England's Test tour of New Zealand,

1:09:30 > 1:09:31which starts on Thursday.

1:09:31 > 1:09:34He has a stress fracture in his lower back and will be

1:09:34 > 1:09:36flying home for treatment, with Somerset spinner Jack Leach

1:09:36 > 1:09:40earning his first call up in place of Crane.

1:09:40 > 1:09:42England had a good day in the field overnight.

1:09:42 > 1:09:44Their bowlers took 13 wickets on the opening day

1:09:44 > 1:09:47of their second warm-up match against a New Zealand XI.

1:09:47 > 1:09:50The tourists chose to stay in the field all day for bowling

1:09:50 > 1:09:52practice ahead of the first Test and James Anderson is happy

1:09:52 > 1:09:53with his side's efforts.

1:09:53 > 1:09:59Today felt like a Test match intensity out there. I thought all

1:09:59 > 1:10:02the bowlers bowled with that intensity. We threw ourselves around

1:10:02 > 1:10:06in the field for me had the opportunity. That's as much as we

1:10:06 > 1:10:10can do. It's a short turnaround on this tour so that's as much as we

1:10:10 > 1:10:15can do. We have to use the next few days wisely. Boulders potentially

1:10:15 > 1:10:19bowling another spell in the nets tomorrow while we are batting. And

1:10:19 > 1:10:24then we have a couple of days in Auckland to get ourselves up for the

1:10:24 > 1:10:28first test.The Cheltenham Festival comes to a to date with the biggest

1:10:28 > 1:10:32prize, the Gold cup. Incredibly, it's a race to be very successful

1:10:32 > 1:10:38trainer Willie Mullins has never won. He goes this afternoon with

1:10:38 > 1:10:41Djakadam. He has trained well this afternoon, has had a couple of

1:10:41 > 1:10:46winners already this week, including Penhill yesterday. Rival trainer

1:10:46 > 1:10:57Nicky Henderson is also sending out a horse and rider. Lots of you

1:10:57 > 1:11:00getting in touch with us this morning about a conversation on

1:11:00 > 1:11:02exclusion that we had before the news.

1:11:02 > 1:11:07A couple of teachers getting in touch, Constance, a retired teacher

1:11:07 > 1:11:10says on e-mail, the rising number of children being excluded from school,

1:11:10 > 1:11:14especially in a primary sector is due to the fact the national

1:11:14 > 1:11:19curriculum is so directed towards results and a one size fits all that

1:11:19 > 1:11:22many children feel frustrated, react in ways that are not appropriate in

1:11:22 > 1:11:27the classroom. It's not the fault of the children. Education is about the

1:11:27 > 1:11:29individual child and the curriculum should meet their needs. Richard is

1:11:29 > 1:11:34also a teacher and says, as a teacher I am completely enraged by

1:11:34 > 1:11:37this discussion. We work ridiculously hard to support all the

1:11:37 > 1:11:41children in our classrooms. We are well aware that many children have

1:11:41 > 1:11:44difficulties at home and emotionally. We support these

1:11:44 > 1:11:48children in class and do all we can. We need to remember that we are

1:11:48 > 1:11:52judged by the government. If one child is throwing things around the

1:11:52 > 1:11:55classroom and is a risk to his or her peers physically then without

1:11:55 > 1:12:02the money to employ more staff to support them, what are we supposed

1:12:02 > 1:12:04to do? Thank you for getting in touch and sharing your experiences.

1:12:04 > 1:12:07Has your child being excluded, or does your child go to a school where

1:12:07 > 1:12:11others have been excluded? Get in touch.

1:12:11 > 1:12:13The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has used a newspaper

1:12:13 > 1:12:15article to again question whether Russia was responsible

1:12:15 > 1:12:17for the nerve agent attack in Salisbury.

1:12:17 > 1:12:19Writing in the Guardian, he said the government must

1:12:19 > 1:12:22avoid "hasty judgments".

1:12:22 > 1:12:26The US, Germany, France and now Australia have backed the UK's

1:12:26 > 1:12:34conclusion that Russia carried out the attack on the former double

1:12:35 > 1:12:38agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

1:12:38 > 1:12:41Earlier this month.

1:12:41 > 1:12:45Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, said British

1:12:45 > 1:12:47diplomats will be expelled in response to the expulsion

1:12:47 > 1:12:49of Russian intelligence officers brought about by the poisoning

1:12:49 > 1:12:50of a former spy in Salisbury.

1:12:50 > 1:12:53Will other countries back their words of support for Theresa May

1:12:53 > 1:12:58with actions against Russia?

1:12:58 > 1:13:00Let's speak now to Paul Knott -

1:13:00 > 1:13:03a former diplomat who worked on the Litvinenko case and author

1:13:03 > 1:13:07of 'The Accidental Diplomat'.

1:13:07 > 1:13:10Radek Sikorski - former Polish Foreign Minister

1:13:10 > 1:13:11and to Amelia Hadfield -

1:13:11 > 1:13:13Professor of European and International Relations

1:13:13 > 1:13:16at Canterbury University.

1:13:16 > 1:13:20Paul, let me begin with you, let's talk about the response from Russia

1:13:20 > 1:13:24and the tit-for-tat that was very much expected. Do you expect them to

1:13:24 > 1:13:29go further than just expelling diplomats?As far as we know,

1:13:29 > 1:13:34probably not at this stage. I think they will probably do that and then

1:13:34 > 1:13:37wait to see what we do next with our allies before they take further

1:13:37 > 1:13:44steps. But clearly they are in a very aggressive mode. So anything is

1:13:44 > 1:13:48possible right now.Do you think this is likely to escalate between

1:13:48 > 1:13:54Britain and Russia? We have had talk of another Cold War.Sometimes I

1:13:54 > 1:13:59think we need to think about the relationship with Russia. There is

1:13:59 > 1:14:04this one awful incident in Britain on the back of previous ones as

1:14:04 > 1:14:11well. I think we are seeing our allies kind of rallying to our side

1:14:11 > 1:14:14because things have happened in their countries as well, and

1:14:14 > 1:14:20everyone is well aware of the danger Russia poses now. I think it's quite

1:14:20 > 1:14:25possible that we are going to end up heading towards a situation that's a

1:14:25 > 1:14:31little bit reminiscent of the Cold War, where Russia becomes a country

1:14:31 > 1:14:35that we need to find ways to work with, where we have to do, to try

1:14:35 > 1:14:43and keep the peace in the world as much as we can. But also that it

1:14:43 > 1:14:47becomes a country that needs to be contained and deterred, as was the

1:14:47 > 1:14:53case in the Cold War.Do you think the response has been proportionate,

1:14:53 > 1:14:59both from Theresa May and the Russians, Radek.Diplomatic

1:14:59 > 1:15:02expulsions are standard fare. Nobody in the Kremlin will be impressed by

1:15:02 > 1:15:08that. What they would be impressed by is the fact that London being the

1:15:08 > 1:15:13European capital of Russian money-laundering, if the British

1:15:13 > 1:15:17authorities imposed the kinds of targeted sanctions that other

1:15:17 > 1:15:20countries have adopted under the Magnitsky Act, the exclusion of

1:15:20 > 1:15:29these bands, and asset freezes on people who either break human rights

1:15:29 > 1:15:33or are engaged in large-scale corruption, they would notice this.

1:15:33 > 1:15:43-- Visa bans.Is that likely in the light of Brexit and Russian money

1:15:43 > 1:15:47needed in the UK?Putin has gambled that Theresa May will not do it. If

1:15:47 > 1:15:51there is a choice between the London business model and national

1:15:51 > 1:15:54security, the London and the city will Trump it. And therefore the

1:15:54 > 1:15:58response will be muted, just as after the Litvinenko case.Amelia,

1:15:58 > 1:16:02is that what you think, that Russia and Putin see Britain as weak and

1:16:02 > 1:16:04not going to do a lot about this?

1:16:09 > 1:16:13It's always interesting with regard to the timing of these issues. I

1:16:13 > 1:16:19know that Brexit is a variable in the Putin mindset, let's also

1:16:19 > 1:16:24remember there is a Russian election coming up this weekend so there are

1:16:24 > 1:16:28domestic factors and National factors as well. I would have to

1:16:28 > 1:16:39agree with Radek, it's the standard tit for tat but the idea of adopting

1:16:39 > 1:16:46Magnitsky style sanctions would up the aunty and as Jeremy Corbyn made

1:16:46 > 1:16:49clear in his article in the Guardian, a much wider crackdown on

1:16:49 > 1:16:55money laundering. Going through the House of Commons at this point, I

1:16:55 > 1:17:01think on its third reading. The sanctions and anti-money-laundering

1:17:01 > 1:17:11bill. It hasn't been picked up in the media whole lot. Some of those

1:17:11 > 1:17:20sanctions can be utilised in this instance. Financial sanctions, but

1:17:20 > 1:17:22also immigration sanctions, trade sanctions, and even ones that

1:17:22 > 1:17:27dovetail with a variety of other sanctions for the purpose of UN

1:17:27 > 1:17:36obligations so

1:17:37 > 1:17:40obligations so although... If you have to make a move with regards to

1:17:40 > 1:17:45diplomacy and foreign policy in general, make it for the right

1:17:45 > 1:17:50reasons.Paul, let's talk about the timing because there is the Russian

1:17:50 > 1:17:54presidential election this weekend. Do you get a sense having worked in

1:17:54 > 1:18:00Moscow that this is about President Putin flexing his muscles

1:18:00 > 1:18:03dramatically cutting we can still go to Britain and attempt to kill

1:18:03 > 1:18:08people on their soil, and leave a nerve agent with a Russian stamp on

1:18:08 > 1:18:14it?Yes, I think it is part of a pattern of the way Putin and his

1:18:14 > 1:18:20regime have been behaving for several years now, he's gone very

1:18:20 > 1:18:24strongly into... They have had economic problems, he has been there

1:18:24 > 1:18:29a long time, questions over legitimacy so he's focused very hard

1:18:29 > 1:18:34on taking actions that can be portrayed as rebuilding Russia is a

1:18:34 > 1:18:39great power in the world. Unfortunately they have done it in a

1:18:39 > 1:18:43highly destructive manner that has cost lots of people their lives and

1:18:43 > 1:18:49created a great degree of turbulence in the world. But yes, I think there

1:18:49 > 1:18:54is certainly a strong element of the path he is pursuing to stir up

1:18:54 > 1:19:00nationalist feeling in Russia.Do you feel the response from European

1:19:00 > 1:19:04countries, from the European Union, has been strong enough to stand

1:19:04 > 1:19:08shoulder to shoulder with Britain? The president of the European

1:19:08 > 1:19:11Council made a quick and powerful statement and allies have rallied

1:19:11 > 1:19:17round but the Russians see us as weak hypocrites and they will look

1:19:17 > 1:19:24not to what we say but what we do. That remains to be seen.So do you

1:19:24 > 1:19:28think that, I mean one of the things that has been raised today is

1:19:28 > 1:19:32whether European countries will be good on their word. It is all very

1:19:32 > 1:19:36well signing a statement and saying we support Theresa May, but do you

1:19:36 > 1:19:41think any of them will take action? The action should be the sort of

1:19:41 > 1:19:45thing that will be effective, and what would be effective would be to

1:19:45 > 1:19:51address the Russian elites' way of life which is to steal money from

1:19:51 > 1:19:57the people of Russia and then secure it and enjoy it in the west. We can

1:19:57 > 1:20:01do something about it but it is London that is the European capital

1:20:01 > 1:20:06of this is so uniquely Britain can take the lead on this issue.Let's

1:20:06 > 1:20:10talk about gas supplies because that is also one issue that is being

1:20:10 > 1:20:14raised by the tabloid media in recent days, about the reliance by

1:20:14 > 1:20:20the UK and Britain on Russian gas supplies. How worried should we be

1:20:20 > 1:20:26about the gas being switched off? Not too worried, Britain is not too

1:20:26 > 1:20:32reliant on Russian gas, it is a lot more the European countries. More

1:20:32 > 1:20:36interestingly, I think with regards to gas stoppages, the signal they

1:20:36 > 1:20:41sent from Russia and again it is not simply the words that emanate in

1:20:41 > 1:20:47terms of a crisis like this, it is very much reactions as Radek said

1:20:47 > 1:20:53and Russian it is able to use different types of foreign policy

1:20:53 > 1:20:57tools, gas stoppages being one of them. We have seen in the last

1:20:57 > 1:21:04decade a range of things moving on beyond that. We have seen the use of

1:21:04 > 1:21:09food embargo is with the Baltics, forms of interference with the

1:21:09 > 1:21:14Balkans, cyber attacks on the UK and on the German parliament, and also

1:21:14 > 1:21:19the rapacious use of fake news and unqualified media attacks as well,

1:21:19 > 1:21:24and meddling in the US. To return to the energy issue, the most recent

1:21:24 > 1:21:28supposed attack has been the cyber assault on the American energy grid

1:21:28 > 1:21:33and aspects of the American strategic structures there and that

1:21:33 > 1:21:38is the reason for the American ratcheting up if you like on their

1:21:38 > 1:21:43particular sanctions. So there's a whole range of different types of

1:21:43 > 1:21:47interference flowing from Russia at this point and I think if America

1:21:47 > 1:21:51and the UK wants to move back, they are going to have to come up with

1:21:51 > 1:21:55some very action -based response perhaps, and this was suggested in

1:21:55 > 1:22:00the last couple of days by a variety of members of Parliament, that UK

1:22:00 > 1:22:05cyber attacks on Russia could be suggested.Forgive me for jumping

1:22:05 > 1:22:11in, I just want to get a view from Paul on where you think we are in a

1:22:11 > 1:22:16scale, if you like, of our relations with Russia, if we look historically

1:22:16 > 1:22:19how bad and good they have been, where do we sit on the scale right

1:22:19 > 1:22:25now?It is pretty bad, certainly as bad again as it was at the time of

1:22:25 > 1:22:34the nuclear material attack on Alexander Litvinenko. It is as bad

1:22:34 > 1:22:40as it has been for decades. Sometimes there is a little bit

1:22:40 > 1:22:46of... You don't have good relations for the sake of it. Sometimes poor

1:22:46 > 1:22:50relations, bad relations are what you need to have with the country or

1:22:50 > 1:22:59a regime that is behaving in this appalling way all over the world.

1:22:59 > 1:23:03Thank you for taking the time out to speak to us this morning, I'm very

1:23:03 > 1:23:13grateful to you.

1:23:17 > 1:23:19Topman has been forced to stop selling this T-shirt -

1:23:19 > 1:23:22after relatives of those killed in the Hillsborough disaster said

1:23:22 > 1:23:24it was disrespectful to the 96 Liverpool fans who died.

1:23:24 > 1:23:30The store has apologised for any offence caused and says

1:23:30 > 1:23:35the wording on the shirt, which reads "what goes around comes

1:23:35 > 1:23:40back around" was a reference to a Bob Marley song.

1:23:40 > 1:23:42I'm joined in the studio by our correspondent Sarah Corker,

1:23:42 > 1:23:44and via webcam by Lou Brookes, whose brother Andrew

1:23:44 > 1:23:45died at Hillsborough.

1:23:45 > 1:23:48He was 26 years old.

1:23:48 > 1:23:55We have seen the shirt but just explain why many Liverpool fans are

1:23:55 > 1:24:01deeply insulted by this.It is a red shirt with the words calm down one

1:24:01 > 1:24:08side, on the back the big 96, rose, and the words "What goes round comes

1:24:08 > 1:24:13back around". It was on sale for £20, and as top man said it was a

1:24:13 > 1:24:19reference to the bot Marley song released in 1996 but since the shirt

1:24:19 > 1:24:22was spotted online by fans on Thursday there has been a strong

1:24:22 > 1:24:27reaction. They described it as sick and offensive because they think it

1:24:27 > 1:24:32is an inadvertent reference to the Hillsborough disaster when 96 fans

1:24:32 > 1:24:37died. The red is the colour of Liverpool football club, the rose

1:24:37 > 1:24:44motif appears on the Hillsborough Memorial and the shirt has been

1:24:44 > 1:24:51withdrawn.Topman as saying it is about Bob Marley song, but football

1:24:51 > 1:24:56fans are saying how did this ever get through?We have had a statement

1:24:56 > 1:25:02the last half-hour from Topman saying "Topman apologises

1:25:02 > 1:25:05unreservedly for any offence caused by this T-shirt. The design was

1:25:05 > 1:25:10inspired by a Bob Marley tracks with the number referring to the year of

1:25:10 > 1:25:14the rerelease. The garment has been removed from sale online and in

1:25:14 > 1:25:14stores"

1:25:14 > 1:25:20removed from sale online and in stores". But the big question is how

1:25:20 > 1:25:24did anyone in the design team not see the connection? How on earth it

1:25:24 > 1:25:29got through, those are the questions Topman will be asking. We have had a

1:25:29 > 1:25:34lot of reaction online, we have heard from the MP for Wirral South

1:25:34 > 1:25:39who took to Twitter to express her concern. "No Idea what was behind

1:25:39 > 1:25:44this but it is very unfortunate. Hope Topman discontinue the shirt as

1:25:44 > 1:25:51soon as possible, and they have acted quickly".Thank you, let's

1:25:51 > 1:25:57speak to Lou, thank you for taking time out to speak to us this

1:25:57 > 1:26:03morning. What did you think when you saw this shirt?First I just want to

1:26:03 > 1:26:10make it crystal clear that it is not just Liverpool fans and bereaved

1:26:10 > 1:26:16families and survivors over reacting, this was actually brought

1:26:16 > 1:26:22to light by a member of the public who has no emotional ties to

1:26:22 > 1:26:27Hillsborough whatsoever. So it is obviously not just us Hillsborough

1:26:27 > 1:26:32families and the survivors and Liverpool fans who are connecting

1:26:32 > 1:26:37the dots shall we say. But going back to your question, initially

1:26:37 > 1:26:43when I was sent the photograph last night, I did gasp and I thought here

1:26:43 > 1:26:48we go again, it is four weeks away from the 29th anniversary and it

1:26:48 > 1:26:54just brought back memories of the guy who wore the T-shirt about two

1:26:54 > 1:26:57years ago, you know. And initially then I started seeing comments

1:26:57 > 1:27:07about, well, is a brand so I googled it, and all I could find was a

1:27:07 > 1:27:13women's brand, nothing to do with Topman. Then I thought, it is in

1:27:13 > 1:27:17red, why not another colour. But it is the rose for me because the rose

1:27:17 > 1:27:23is very significant to Hillsborough. I just thought, and if you notice

1:27:23 > 1:27:27the wording of the Bob Marley song isn't the same wording as actually

1:27:27 > 1:27:35what is on the T-shirt.Do you think this is an oversight and Topman have

1:27:35 > 1:27:42made a mistake or are you suggesting this is something more vindictive?I

1:27:42 > 1:27:46personally think, I mean I did try to take a step back and try to be

1:27:46 > 1:27:51rational about it, but I just think there's too many coincidences and

1:27:51 > 1:28:02also why didn't they put 1996 on the shirt? Why 96? And I think it is

1:28:02 > 1:28:08quite interesting of the timing. We are four weeks away from the 29th

1:28:08 > 1:28:14anniversary. Don't forget as well,'s families and survivors, for 29 years

1:28:14 > 1:28:21old we have

1:28:21 > 1:28:25old we have heard is Hillsborough is God's way of punishing the Liverpool

1:28:25 > 1:28:32fans for Hysen. That's what hurts so much and that's why I do believe

1:28:32 > 1:28:41this T-shirt is definitely connected and referenced to Hillsborough.Let

1:28:41 > 1:28:47me read you some comments. Tom on Twitter says not exactly a retail

1:28:47 > 1:28:51masterstroke by Topman, if there are any references to any tragedy it is

1:28:51 > 1:29:00best for all concerned to even them. Also, "To profit from a disaster is

1:29:00 > 1:29:05horrendous, who in the company approved this design?" Steve

1:29:05 > 1:29:09Sweeting, "Massive oversight, it's possible those who signed it off

1:29:09 > 1:29:12didn't have any knowledge on this but Hillsborough is the first thing

1:29:12 > 1:29:18I thought of when I saw it."Sorry to interrupt but the point I'm

1:29:18 > 1:29:25making is it is the general public who have raised this issue and my

1:29:25 > 1:29:31mum was the same when she was alive, Louise, when everyone is saying the

1:29:31 > 1:29:34same thing everyone cannot be wrong and that's when you need to listen

1:29:34 > 1:29:39to what everyone is saying. When the general public, who have no

1:29:39 > 1:29:43emotional ties or connections to Hillsborough are raising this and

1:29:43 > 1:29:49complaining, and bringing the issue to survivors and bereaved family

1:29:49 > 1:29:55members, 1.I would like to make before you go is some of us families

1:29:55 > 1:30:00are really struggling at the moment. Some of us suffer with anxiety,

1:30:00 > 1:30:07panic attacks, depression, and some of us are struggling more since

1:30:07 > 1:30:11verdict day. When we wake up each day and see things like this,

1:30:11 > 1:30:19especially around an anniversary, it really hurts. A 96 and the survivors

1:30:19 > 1:30:25did nothing wrong that day and I am fed up to the back teeth of our 96

1:30:25 > 1:30:31being used to score points off the field. Keep your score pointing on

1:30:31 > 1:30:38the pitch and not off it. These are innocent people, we are human

1:30:38 > 1:30:43beings, we feel, we have never done anything wrong to anybody.And we

1:30:43 > 1:30:46can hear from the passion in your voice absolutely, you put it so

1:30:46 > 1:30:53eloquently so thank you for speaking to us today. It is worth reiterating

1:30:53 > 1:30:58that Topman is saying this was inspired by a Bob Marley track.

1:30:58 > 1:31:00Time for the latest news.

1:31:00 > 1:31:03Here's Reeta with the BBC News headlines this morning.

1:31:03 > 1:31:06Officials in Florida say six people have been killed

1:31:06 > 1:31:08by a footbridge which collapsed onto a busy road in Miami.

1:31:08 > 1:31:11Eight vehicles were crushed when the walkway gave way, less

1:31:11 > 1:31:12than a week after being installed.

1:31:12 > 1:31:14The bridge at Florida International University

1:31:14 > 1:31:16was put up in one day, using a technique designed

1:31:16 > 1:31:18to minimise traffic disruption.

1:31:18 > 1:31:20Police say rescue teams will work throughout the day

1:31:20 > 1:31:22to search for survivors, but the number of dead

1:31:22 > 1:31:29is likely to rise.

1:31:29 > 1:31:30Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov,

1:31:30 > 1:31:32has confirmed Moscow will expel British diplomats.

1:31:32 > 1:31:34The move follows Theresa May's expulsion of 23 staff

1:31:34 > 1:31:37from the Russian embassy in London, over the nerve agent

1:31:37 > 1:31:38attack in Salisbury.

1:31:38 > 1:31:39Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned Russia's involvement

1:31:39 > 1:31:42in the poisoning of the former spy, Sergei Skripal, and

1:31:42 > 1:31:45his daughter Julia.

1:31:45 > 1:31:48his daughter Yulia.

1:31:48 > 1:31:50One in four council-run secondary schools in England

1:31:50 > 1:31:52is running at a loss, according to new research

1:31:52 > 1:31:53by the Education Policy Institute.

1:31:53 > 1:31:56The proportion of schools in deficit has nearly trebled

1:31:56 > 1:31:57in the last four years.

1:31:57 > 1:32:01The government says it doesn't recognise the report's findings,

1:32:01 > 1:32:06and is putting an extra £1.3 billion into schools.

1:32:06 > 1:32:10Syrian activists say nearly 20,000 civilians left the rebel enclave of

1:32:10 > 1:32:14Eastern Ghouta yesterday in the biggest displacement of people since

1:32:14 > 1:32:20government forces intensified their assault last month.

1:32:20 > 1:32:22The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says

1:32:22 > 1:32:27the exodus stopped when rebels launched a counter-attack.

1:32:27 > 1:32:29Egypt is to send a delegation of MPs to the UK,

1:32:29 > 1:32:32following the death of an Egyptian student in Nottingham.

1:32:32 > 1:32:3318-year-old Mariam Moustafa died on Wednesday,

1:32:33 > 1:32:35nearly a month after being attacked in the city centre.

1:32:35 > 1:32:38The hashtag "Mariam's rights will not be lost" has

1:32:38 > 1:32:39been trending in Egypt.

1:32:39 > 1:32:41That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

1:32:41 > 1:32:42Sport now with Will.

1:32:42 > 1:32:44Great Britain's snowboarders have all missed out on medals

1:32:44 > 1:32:49in their Winter Paralympic banked slalom events.

1:32:49 > 1:32:51Another day to forget for Owen Pick, as well as Ben Moore

1:32:51 > 1:32:53and James Barnes-Miller.

1:32:53 > 1:33:01Paralympics GB have five medals in Pyeongchang,

1:33:02 > 1:33:05behind the UK Sport target of 6-12 with just 2 days left.

1:33:05 > 1:33:08Arsenal will find out this morning who they'll play in the quarter

1:33:08 > 1:33:09finals of the Eurpa League.

1:33:09 > 1:33:12Danny Welbwck scored twice last night as they beat AC Milan

1:33:12 > 1:33:133-1, 5-1 on aggregate.

1:33:13 > 1:33:15Leg-spinner Mason Crane will miss England's Test tour of New Zealand

1:33:15 > 1:33:17because of a back injury.

1:33:17 > 1:33:18He's been replaced by Somerset's Jack Leach.

1:33:18 > 1:33:20The two-Test series begins in Auckland next Thursday.

1:33:20 > 1:33:22The Cheltenham Festival comes to a close today,

1:33:22 > 1:33:24with the biggest prize - the Gold Cup.

1:33:24 > 1:33:32It's a race the hugely successful trainer Willie Mullins has never won

1:33:33 > 1:33:33Djakadam

1:33:33 > 1:33:35he'll try again this afternoon with Djakadum.

1:33:35 > 1:33:40His rival trainer Nicky Henderson sends out Might Bite.

1:33:40 > 1:33:43One of the nation's favourite soaps Coronation Street will tonight

1:33:43 > 1:33:45broadcast the start of a major storyline focusing on male rape.

1:33:45 > 1:33:48The plot will see the character David Platt raped by male mechanic

1:33:48 > 1:33:49and personal trainer Josh Tucker.

1:33:49 > 1:33:52In the coming weeks the soap will chart the characters struggle

1:33:52 > 1:33:54in the aftermath of the attack.

1:33:54 > 1:33:56This is a clip from tonight's episode.

1:33:56 > 1:34:02Two peas in a pod, you and me.

1:34:02 > 1:34:05My mum, she always used to refer to her fellas as my uncles.

1:34:05 > 1:34:06Mmm.

1:34:06 > 1:34:09Yeah, my Gran was just as bad, apparently, in her day.

1:34:09 > 1:34:10Mmm.

1:34:10 > 1:34:13But...

1:34:13 > 1:34:16Now they're just two born-again prudes.

1:34:16 > 1:34:20I think we should have a toast, actually.

1:34:20 > 1:34:22To all the uncles in the world.

1:34:22 > 1:34:30To uncles.

1:34:33 > 1:34:41Right. I'm going to go for a wazz.

1:35:19 > 1:35:22Let's talk now to one survivor of male rape, Alexander Morgan.

1:35:22 > 1:35:23He was raped twice.

1:35:23 > 1:35:26And Kate Oates - Coronation Street's producer - who joins

1:35:26 > 1:35:28us from Manchester.

1:35:28 > 1:35:36thank you for coming in. Did you feel in the aftermath of the times

1:35:36 > 1:35:40you were raped that you were able to talk to people about it?I think the

1:35:40 > 1:35:47first emotion I felt was that I froze. So I couldn't really come to

1:35:47 > 1:35:52terms with what happened. The first instance it happened, I was walking

1:35:52 > 1:35:56home and the attack happened. When I got back, the first thing I wanted

1:35:56 > 1:35:59to do was clean myself up. I couldn't bring myself to talk about

1:35:59 > 1:36:06or even think about what happened. I kept it inside like that for years.

1:36:06 > 1:36:14A second attack happened when I was 20, I was at university, at a bar in

1:36:14 > 1:36:17Soho and I was followed into a toilet. That's when the other attack

1:36:17 > 1:36:22happened. It took another three months after that to even start

1:36:22 > 1:36:29acknowledging what happened to me, let alone start talking about it or

1:36:29 > 1:36:33start to seek help.What did that do to you inside, your emotions and

1:36:33 > 1:36:40your ability to function?You become very cold. Not very respected to

1:36:40 > 1:36:44emotions and feelings, you just try to move on as much as possible. Try

1:36:44 > 1:36:50to literally forget what happened to you. There is a lot of feeling of

1:36:50 > 1:36:54shame, that you let somebody get the better of you, that you let somebody

1:36:54 > 1:37:01do that to you.Is that linked to being a man?Yes, I think so. I

1:37:01 > 1:37:06think there is a stigma in society about how masculinity should become

1:37:06 > 1:37:10a man should be powerful, he should be able to provide and protect

1:37:10 > 1:37:15himself. The fact you couldn't protect yourself in that moment, and

1:37:15 > 1:37:22you let somebody get the better of you, let somebody do that to you, I

1:37:22 > 1:37:28believe that attacks what society thinks is masculinity. And being a

1:37:28 > 1:37:32man. Therefore people don't like to talk about it or seek help.What

1:37:32 > 1:37:38prompted you to tell people to seek help?After the second attack, about

1:37:38 > 1:37:43three months later, I let it get in the way of a relationship, and that

1:37:43 > 1:37:48led me to slip into mental health issues. I first sought help for the

1:37:48 > 1:37:52mental health issue, I was diagnosed with depression and through the

1:37:52 > 1:37:55counselling that followed I was able to start opening up about what had

1:37:55 > 1:38:01happened and the other events in my past. That's when I could start

1:38:01 > 1:38:05talking to family members and things like that. But then it was actually

1:38:05 > 1:38:13when I told my mum that I started being more proactive about it. My

1:38:13 > 1:38:18mum came to me in the kitchen two months after I told her in an

1:38:18 > 1:38:22e-mail, because I couldn't tell her face-to-face. I told my whole family

1:38:22 > 1:38:26in an e-mail. It took awhile for her to process that. She came up to me

1:38:26 > 1:38:30in the kitchen and said an amazing line-up stuck to me, and she said,

1:38:30 > 1:38:36what happened to you was awful, but go out there and stop it happening

1:38:36 > 1:38:39to somebody else. That gave me the right click to be a bit more

1:38:39 > 1:38:45proactive about it. In my head I was very much thinking, I thought I was

1:38:45 > 1:38:49a victim, and then I became a survivor. I wanted to go out there

1:38:49 > 1:38:54and do something about it, which led me to founding my charity.Bringing

1:38:54 > 1:38:59in Kate now, listening to Alexander's situation, presumably

1:38:59 > 1:39:03you have heard many stories like this. Why was it important for

1:39:03 > 1:39:07Coronation Street to tackle this head on?Listing to Alex's story

1:39:07 > 1:39:12echoes a lot of what we heard through the charity Survivors of

1:39:12 > 1:39:17Manchester who we have been working with. Alex, to hear your story, it

1:39:17 > 1:39:20was so brave and brilliant for you to come forward and turn your

1:39:20 > 1:39:24experience around. We are trying to encourage other survivors to do that

1:39:24 > 1:39:33with this story. One in ten rapes on -- in this country will be of a male

1:39:33 > 1:39:37victim, and they don't talk about it and we want them to change that.

1:39:37 > 1:39:41This is for men all across the country, who might have a view, as

1:39:41 > 1:39:44Alexander talked about some of a certain type of masculinity, and

1:39:44 > 1:39:49encouraging them to open up.It's really key, the perception of

1:39:49 > 1:39:53masculinity is really key to the story and the experience. What we

1:39:53 > 1:39:57have learned through research is that men take in excess of 25 years

1:39:57 > 1:40:01to talk about abuse that has happened to them. Alex was talking

1:40:01 > 1:40:05about three months there, which is phenomenal. A lot of people take a

1:40:05 > 1:40:10lot longer. On the Victoria Derbyshire show, I have spoke to

1:40:10 > 1:40:15Victoria before, and you have raised the issue of historic abuse with

1:40:15 > 1:40:19footballers, and charities then experienced a huge surge in calls

1:40:19 > 1:40:23from people wanting to disclose and ask for help. We are trying to

1:40:23 > 1:40:28condense that time, because there are people available to listen and

1:40:28 > 1:40:31give help. We need to dispel the myths of masculinity, because what

1:40:31 > 1:40:36is important is coming through stronger.How important is it for a

1:40:36 > 1:40:40show like Coronation Street to take on a male rape storyline in this

1:40:40 > 1:40:45way?It's really important to start these conversations. Especially with

1:40:45 > 1:40:51something so prominent as Coronation Street. It was reading stories

1:40:51 > 1:40:54online from other survivors that made me want to start talking about

1:40:54 > 1:41:02it. Fair enough, it was there for therapy, but it was other people,

1:41:02 > 1:41:06seeing other survivors come forward and say, this happened. I thought,

1:41:06 > 1:41:11that happened to me too. Then conversations start and people start

1:41:11 > 1:41:15addressing what happened to them, and starts to seek help in their own

1:41:15 > 1:41:20way. Whether that's reporting to the police or just speaking to family

1:41:20 > 1:41:23members and friends, or approaching services like Survivors UK and

1:41:23 > 1:41:28Manchester.How much of responsibility is this for

1:41:28 > 1:41:34Coronation Street? You have to get this right.It's a responsibility we

1:41:34 > 1:41:37take seriously, whatever storyline we approach. We work with charities,

1:41:37 > 1:41:41we work with people who have lived the experience, whatever the

1:41:41 > 1:41:45storyline is. It's important for us to get it right. Survivors

1:41:45 > 1:41:49Manchester have been across all the scripts. Duncan Craig has been

1:41:49 > 1:41:52fantastic with that. We have worked with other charities like the

1:41:52 > 1:41:55Samaritans. The responsibility is heavy on our shoulders but that's

1:41:55 > 1:42:00good because we checked everything we and we are as accurate as we can

1:42:00 > 1:42:04possibly be. That's crucial. Alexander, if somebody is watching

1:42:04 > 1:42:08today and this is bringing back an horrific event in life, what would

1:42:08 > 1:42:12you say to them about coming forward? What's the best to make

1:42:12 > 1:42:18that first step?The best way to make the first step is to realise

1:42:18 > 1:42:21that, for example, going to the police doesn't have to be the first

1:42:21 > 1:42:27option. You can just start talking about it to someone. That could be a

1:42:27 > 1:42:32friend, family member. Or there are plenty of services that are

1:42:32 > 1:42:36anonymous, you can call helplines, or even have a web chat. That's how

1:42:36 > 1:42:41I started. As soon as you start the conversation, you will start to feel

1:42:41 > 1:42:46like a weight has been lifted off your shoulder. Don't be put off by

1:42:46 > 1:42:49thinking, they might not catch them, or there might be evidence or you

1:42:49 > 1:42:53might not be believed. There are people out there who will believe

1:42:53 > 1:42:56you. Services and the police are very good at making sure there is

1:42:56 > 1:43:01care out there.We have had a comment coming in, it's good to see

1:43:01 > 1:43:04Coronation Street tackle a male rape storyline. Soaps covering issues

1:43:04 > 1:43:09like this is really powerful. I remember when Hollyoaks did a

1:43:09 > 1:43:12similar storyline years ago with Luke and I never forgot it.

1:43:12 > 1:43:16Hopefully men will feel more able to speak out. Alexander and Kate, thank

1:43:16 > 1:43:21you for speaking to us today. If you have been affected by these issues

1:43:21 > 1:43:27and want help or advice, please visit the BBC website.

1:43:27 > 1:43:29If you've been affected by any of these issues

1:43:29 > 1:43:37and want help or advice, please go to BBC.CO.UK/ACTION LINE.

1:43:38 > 1:43:46BBC click has been looking into dimension technology. -- new

1:43:46 > 1:43:52dementia technology.

1:45:23 > 1:45:28Next this morning, a top advertising firm has been

1:45:28 > 1:45:30forced to apologise to its staff after a sexist email

1:45:30 > 1:45:32was sent by a male executive to female colleagues

1:45:32 > 1:45:34ranking their attractiveness on International Women's Day.

1:45:34 > 1:45:36In a farewell email to his fellow employees, Paul Martin,

1:45:36 > 1:45:42who has now left his role as a creative strategist

1:45:42 > 1:45:45at the AND Partnership agency, sent a series of messages

1:45:45 > 1:45:53which included a list of 'Top Five' and 'Bottom Five' female colleagues.

1:45:56 > 1:45:58In one offensive comment about a female colleague,

1:45:58 > 1:46:02he said: "If you were the last girl on earth, I would use you as bait

1:46:02 > 1:46:04to trap a wild animal."

1:46:04 > 1:46:06In another comment, which had the subject line "Bye Bye",

1:46:06 > 1:46:08Martin listed a female colleague and wrote, "I don't see

1:46:08 > 1:46:11the attraction to be honest, but everyone else rates you,

1:46:11 > 1:46:12so you must be doing something right".

1:46:12 > 1:46:14He has since apologised and said he is "incredibly

1:46:14 > 1:46:16sorry" for the email, admitting that he "totally

1:46:16 > 1:46:20missed the mark".

1:46:20 > 1:46:22So, was it just a tasteless joke

1:46:22 > 1:46:26or is this part of a wider office culture?

1:46:26 > 1:46:32Let's speak now to Sarah Golding, the chief executive of the agency

1:46:32 > 1:46:43where Martin works.

1:46:43 > 1:46:49We are also joined buying Nicola

1:46:50 > 1:46:58Kemp. What happened here?It was a poorly judged and ill-conceived

1:46:58 > 1:47:08attempt at a funny e-mail that nothing is laughing

1:47:09 > 1:47:12nothing is laughing with -- within the agency. I have taken action

1:47:12 > 1:47:17within the agency and stopped any activity like this that objectifies

1:47:17 > 1:47:23men or women, and as president of our industry body I am calling on

1:47:23 > 1:47:28all agencies to stop similar activities that do objectify men or

1:47:28 > 1:47:37women. Next week as I'm sure you know is Ad Week Europe, the biggest

1:47:37 > 1:47:42gathering of people who work in our industry across Europe, and it's a

1:47:42 > 1:47:47great opportunity to move forward positively and bring about change.

1:47:47 > 1:47:50People watching this will save there must have been a culture within the

1:47:50 > 1:47:56office that he felt it was safe to send an e-mail. What's been watching

1:47:56 > 1:47:59this, it would never even crossed their mind to think about it, let

1:47:59 > 1:48:05alone put it in an e-mail and hit the send button.My industry and my

1:48:05 > 1:48:13agency does not condone sexism, it is not a sexist culture. I hope I'm

1:48:13 > 1:48:16proof of that, I'm chief executive of one of the top advertising

1:48:16 > 1:48:19agencies in this country and the second female president of our

1:48:19 > 1:48:25industry body.So are you saying e-mails like this have never been

1:48:25 > 1:48:31sent like this before?No, top five e-mails have been sent but never

1:48:31 > 1:48:37like this before. This has not been a one-way exercise in female

1:48:37 > 1:48:42objectification. Normally these top five e-mails, I think in some

1:48:42 > 1:48:47agencies it is top three, actually celebrate friendships, bonds that

1:48:47 > 1:48:54have been made.Explain to people who don't know what a top three or

1:48:54 > 1:48:59top five e-mail is.What has become tradition within our industry across

1:48:59 > 1:49:04many agencies is that when somebody leaves, they send an e-mail to all

1:49:04 > 1:49:08staff naming five people who have really helped them. Friendships they

1:49:08 > 1:49:14have made, people who got them out of a hole, five great events that

1:49:14 > 1:49:18have happened, memorable things or people that they admire or people

1:49:18 > 1:49:23they want to celebrate for having helped them whilst they have been in

1:49:23 > 1:49:28their job at a particular agency so they are done with fun and

1:49:28 > 1:49:34friendship and they are positive and they celebrate these strong bonds.

1:49:34 > 1:49:40So what went wrong?It was juvenile, ill-conceived and poor judgment but

1:49:40 > 1:49:48it was a one-off. My industry is not sexist, we don't condone sexism.

1:49:48 > 1:49:52Only the year before last we issued a diversity survey where we asked

1:49:52 > 1:49:56member agencies to take a really good look at ourselves so we could

1:49:56 > 1:50:00set ourselves targets. We are not there yet and our industry is

1:50:00 > 1:50:06changing like many other industries, but we have 30% of women in C suite

1:50:06 > 1:50:11positions and we have set ourselves a target to get 50% in C suite

1:50:11 > 1:50:19positions by 2020.What about the women named in this e-mail? What we

1:50:19 > 1:50:24read out was very tame, many things in there were so deeply offensive we

1:50:24 > 1:50:28couldn't contemplate putting it on television, let alone before the

1:50:28 > 1:50:33watershed. Are these women offended, have they been offered support?I

1:50:33 > 1:50:37have been talking to one of the women mentioned in this e-mail so I

1:50:37 > 1:50:42know how they are feeling. I was named in the e-mail, I certainly

1:50:42 > 1:50:47wasn't asked to be named in the e-mail so myself and other female

1:50:47 > 1:50:52colleagues, I have a female MD and several heads of department who are

1:50:52 > 1:50:56females, I have certainly apologised to these women and said I know how

1:50:56 > 1:51:04you feel, it is awful, upsetting and offensive.Did you feel embarrassed?

1:51:04 > 1:51:09Yes, I felt incredibly embarrassed so I made sure, well, I am always

1:51:09 > 1:51:14there for these women. I'm doing my best to champion women. I chair the

1:51:14 > 1:51:20women of tomorrow in our industry, I sit on the Stereotype Alliance, the

1:51:20 > 1:51:32UN initiative, I chair and champion all of the diversity issues that the

1:51:32 > 1:51:37IPA agenda sets.I know Paul Martin has left, clearly this was leaving

1:51:37 > 1:51:43e-mail, are you taking any further against him?I also think now we

1:51:43 > 1:51:48need to look at what's happening in the tabloids. This is a young guy,

1:51:48 > 1:51:52he wasn't the head of an advertising agency, he's in his 20s, he has made

1:51:52 > 1:51:59a big mistake and now he is being pilloried across social media and

1:51:59 > 1:52:03all of the tabloids.He should have thought about that before he sent

1:52:03 > 1:52:08the e-mail.You should but he's a human being and he made a mistake.I

1:52:08 > 1:52:17want to bring in Nicola camp now. Do you think this was a one-off or that

1:52:17 > 1:52:22there is a general sexist office culture that exists in 2018?This

1:52:22 > 1:52:27wasn't a one-off, that is clear, and I don't think this is about one

1:52:27 > 1:52:30agency or on individual. There's big issues across not just the

1:52:30 > 1:52:35advertising industry but lots of other industries as well about the

1:52:35 > 1:52:41way in which women are excluded and belittled and talked about in this

1:52:41 > 1:52:46way. These top five e-mails are symptomatic of a culture in which

1:52:46 > 1:52:50women have been valued by what they looked like and not what they can

1:52:50 > 1:52:54do. That is a big issue and unfortunately this one e-mail has

1:52:54 > 1:53:00become a lightning rod for a lot of different issues which are very

1:53:00 > 1:53:05culturally sensitive.There is a point, as I made to Sarah, that

1:53:05 > 1:53:09there are many people watching this that would never even contemplate

1:53:09 > 1:53:14sending an e-mail like that, let alone putting it down and hitting

1:53:14 > 1:53:17the send button so this is reflective of a culture that you

1:53:17 > 1:53:23think allows this to happen in advertising?I think the fact is

1:53:23 > 1:53:29that for a number of years these e-mails have been sent. This is a

1:53:29 > 1:53:32very extreme example of that type of e-mail. A lot of the e-mails that

1:53:32 > 1:53:36have been sent have been more light-hearted in their tone but the

1:53:36 > 1:53:42fact is a lot of them have focused on women and since we published this

1:53:42 > 1:53:49story in Campaign, a lot of those women have got in touch. After this

1:53:49 > 1:53:52e-mail was released, and started going viral on Twitter, and open

1:53:52 > 1:53:58source Google document was created by women in advertising which named

1:53:58 > 1:54:04three other agencies in which these e-mails have taken place. So I think

1:54:04 > 1:54:10it is much bigger than one single e-mail or one single person.Thank

1:54:10 > 1:54:17you for joining us, Nicola and Sarah.

1:54:17 > 1:54:25We spoke earlier to a remarkable woman, who campaigned for new laws

1:54:25 > 1:54:31after the father of her unborn son killed him by clicking on her

1:54:31 > 1:54:36stomach. Let's hear what she had to say.My neighbour heard the

1:54:36 > 1:54:41screaming, she opened the window and said, what are you doing? Another of

1:54:41 > 1:54:45my neighbours was in the car and stopped in the middle-of-the-road

1:54:45 > 1:54:50because she saw two guy essentially on top of me and as my neighbour

1:54:50 > 1:54:54screamed out the window they ran off and I think that's what initially

1:54:54 > 1:54:59scared them off but if it wasn't for that, God only knows how long they

1:54:59 > 1:55:04would have continued attacking me. After some time I started to realise

1:55:04 > 1:55:09my baby hasn't moved so my instinct started to tell me something was

1:55:09 > 1:55:14wrong because he hadn't been moving for quite a while.So you got to

1:55:14 > 1:55:23hospital and at what point did you realise that Joel had died?It was