:00:12. > :00:13.Hello and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament,
:00:14. > :00:21.MPs vote to allow air strikes against the terror group
:00:22. > :00:39.The noes to the left, 223. Sodhi ayes have it -- so, the ayes have
:00:40. > :00:42.it. At the start of a marathon debate,
:00:43. > :00:45.the Prime Minister said defeating In action is a choice. I believe it
:00:46. > :01:00.is the wrong choice. In a day-long debate, the House
:01:01. > :01:13.of Commons has discussed the government's proposals for carrying
:01:14. > :01:15.out airstrikes in Syria against The Prime Minister told the House
:01:16. > :01:25.that the aim of military action was to "keep the British people safe"
:01:26. > :01:27.from terror attacks. But Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn
:01:28. > :01:30.opposed that stance - although his view was not
:01:31. > :01:32.representative of every one of his The day began with the
:01:33. > :01:42.Prime Minister's opening statement. I wish to call the prime Minister.
:01:43. > :01:48.The question before the House today is how we keep the British people
:01:49. > :01:53.safe from the threat posed by Isil. Let me be clear, this is not about
:01:54. > :01:59.whether we want to fight terrorism, it is about how best we do that.
:02:00. > :02:04.Since November last year, our security forces have foiled no fewer
:02:05. > :02:09.than seven plots against our people, so the threat is real, and the
:02:10. > :02:14.question is, do we work with our allies to destroy this threat, and
:02:15. > :02:15.do we go after these terrorists in their heart lands, or do we sit back
:02:16. > :02:18.and wait for them to attack us? The Prime Minister took
:02:19. > :02:20.interventions early on in his speech, when MPs asked him to
:02:21. > :02:23.apologise for reportedly saying opponents of military action were
:02:24. > :02:33.terrorist sympathisers. No-one on this side of the House
:02:34. > :02:39.will make a decision based on any such remarks, nor will we be
:02:40. > :02:45.threatened into, from doing what we believe is the right thing, whether
:02:46. > :02:52.those threats come from online activists or indeed from our own
:02:53. > :02:55.dispatch box. I completely agree with the honourable gentleman.
:02:56. > :03:01.Everyone in this House should make up their mind on the argument in
:03:02. > :03:04.this House, and there is honour in voting for and against. We should be
:03:05. > :03:13.clear what air strikes alone can't achieve. We don't need ground troops
:03:14. > :03:14.to hit the headquarters of Daesh, their supply routes and training
:03:15. > :03:16.facilities and weapons suppliers. The Prime Minister defended his
:03:17. > :03:19.claim there were 70,000 moderate opposition fighters in Syria, saying
:03:20. > :03:21.it was the estimate of the Joint Intelligence Committee,
:03:22. > :03:33.the UK's senior intelligence body. I am not arguing, this is a crucial
:03:34. > :03:41.point, IMF arguing that all of these 70,000 are somehow ideal partners.
:03:42. > :03:45.Some left the Army because of the brutality of a solid, and they can
:03:46. > :03:49.play a role in the future of Syria, and that is a view that has been
:03:50. > :03:55.taken by the Russians as well. This is not 2003. We must not use past
:03:56. > :04:01.mistakes as an excuse for indifference or inaction. Let's be
:04:02. > :04:06.clear, in action does not amount to a strategy for our security or for
:04:07. > :04:10.the people of Syria, but inaction is a choice, and they believe it is the
:04:11. > :04:15.wrong choice. We have listened to our allies and we have taken legal
:04:16. > :04:21.advice and we have a United Nations resolution and we have discussed
:04:22. > :04:25.this extensively at meetings at the Security Council, I have put forward
:04:26. > :04:30.a report to the select committee, we have a proper motion for this House,
:04:31. > :04:36.and ahead by the end of it all, the House will come together for large
:04:37. > :04:39.-- in large numbers to help defeat these extremists and take the action
:04:40. > :04:41.that is needed now to keep our country safe.
:04:42. > :04:43.It was the turn of the Labour leader
:04:44. > :04:58.Since the prime minister first make his case for bombing in Syria last
:04:59. > :05:03.week,... That is why it is a matter of such concern that a government
:05:04. > :05:07.has decided to push this vote through Parliament today. The issue
:05:08. > :05:13.now is whether extending British bombing from Iraq to Syria is likely
:05:14. > :05:17.to reduce or increase that threat to Britain, and whether it will counter
:05:18. > :05:22.or spread the terror campaign that is being waged by Isil across the
:05:23. > :05:28.Middle East. The answers do not make the case for the government motion.
:05:29. > :05:32.On the contrary, they are a step back. A vote against yet another
:05:33. > :05:34.ill-fated twist in this never-ending war on terror.
:05:35. > :05:37.And Mr Corbyn too addressed the issue of ground troops in Syria,
:05:38. > :05:47.saying the only troops who could take advantage of the bombing
:05:48. > :05:54.Campaign were jihadist forces. Western boots on the ground, what
:05:55. > :05:59.ever the prime minister me to say now about keeping British combat
:06:00. > :06:05.troops out of the way, are a real possibility.
:06:06. > :06:09.He finished by calling for increased efforts for a
:06:10. > :06:16.To oppose another war and intervention is not passive as in,
:06:17. > :06:21.it is hard-headed common-sense, which I think we should be thinking
:06:22. > :06:26.about today in this House. To resist the determination of Isil to draw
:06:27. > :06:31.the Western powers back into the heart of the Middle East is not to
:06:32. > :06:36.turn our back on our allies, it is refusing to play into the hands of
:06:37. > :06:38.Isil and what I expect some of them want us to do.
:06:39. > :06:42.Now, five minutes isn't long for a backbencher to make a speech
:06:43. > :06:44.but over 100 members wanted to contribute to the debate.
:06:45. > :06:46.Sir Alan Duncan was the first Conservative MP to speak
:06:47. > :06:50.and he said the decision not to bomb Syria in 2013 had raised questions
:06:51. > :07:07.If we choose today to remain on the sidelines, especially when there is
:07:08. > :07:12.a new and unequivocal United Nations resolution in place, it would signal
:07:13. > :07:19.to the world that the United Kingdom is indeed choosing to withdraw. Mr
:07:20. > :07:27.Speaker, we should not be in the business of national resignation
:07:28. > :07:36.from the world stage. I am not going to be a party to killing innocent
:07:37. > :07:43.civilians for what will simply be a gesture. I am not interested in
:07:44. > :07:50.gesture or texts. I am not interested in gesture military
:07:51. > :07:54.activity. I am interested in affecting military activity, and if
:07:55. > :07:58.that is brought before this House, I vote for it. To my mind, Isil isn't
:07:59. > :08:04.such a clear and present danger to the civilized world -- is such a
:08:05. > :08:11.clear and present danger to the civilized world... Our French allies
:08:12. > :08:15.have excessively asked us for such support, and I invite the House to
:08:16. > :08:22.consider how we would feel and what we would say if what took place in
:08:23. > :08:27.Paris had happened in London, if we had explicitly asked friends for
:08:28. > :08:31.support and France had refused. -- asked France for support.
:08:32. > :08:33.Conservative John Baron is a member of the
:08:34. > :08:35.Foreign Affairs Committee and his amendment opposes the Government's
:08:36. > :08:47.We should be tackling the ideology and the sectarianism that feeds the
:08:48. > :08:52.extremism that these groups, including Daesh, feed off. That is a
:08:53. > :08:56.long-term strategy. You cannot do it overnight, but I don't see much
:08:57. > :09:02.evidence of that. I find this decision as difficult as anyone to
:09:03. > :09:10.make. I wish I had, frankly, the self righteous certitude of the
:09:11. > :09:12.finger jabbing representatives who will no doubt soon be contacting
:09:13. > :09:27.those of us who support this motion tonight. But I believe that Isil
:09:28. > :09:28.-gen-macro has to be confronted. -- Isil Daesh.
:09:29. > :09:31.Conservative Julian Lewis is chair of the defence committee and he
:09:32. > :09:33.said he had consulted the former ambassador to Syria, Peter Ford.
:09:34. > :09:50.He calls the freeze Syrian army a ragbag of 58 factions, united mainly
:09:51. > :09:54.by a desire to use both, Turkish and Western funding. He goes on to say
:09:55. > :09:59.that the factions which are extremely locally based have no
:10:00. > :10:03.interest whatsoever in being drawn into battle against groups which
:10:04. > :10:07.basically share their sectarian agenda hundreds of miles away in
:10:08. > :10:13.areas with which they are unfamiliar. So, Mr Speaker, instead
:10:14. > :10:22.of having dodgy dossiers, we now have bogus battalions of moderate
:10:23. > :10:26.fighters. Daesh are the fascists of our time and I still believe there
:10:27. > :10:29.is a dignity in uniting with our allies against a common enemy in
:10:30. > :10:33.defence of our common humanity, and that is what I hope we will do.
:10:34. > :10:34.The SNP uniformly opposes air strikes.
:10:35. > :10:36.The party's leader at Westminster, Angus Robertson,
:10:37. > :10:38.said he appreciated the professionalism of the armed forces,
:10:39. > :10:42.adding that most of the air crews deployed were likely to be from
:10:43. > :10:48.RAF Lossiemouth in his constituency.
:10:49. > :10:51.Like many others, he turned to the issue of ground troops in Syria.
:10:52. > :10:54.And he raised the issue of the Prime Minister's mandate for action.
:10:55. > :11:01.The problem is, only a part of those forces are moderate, and there is
:11:02. > :11:05.absolutely no evidence whatsoever that they would definitely deploy
:11:06. > :11:11.from other parts of the country to counter Daesh. I asked the Prime
:11:12. > :11:17.Minister, all this 70,000, how many are moderate and how many are
:11:18. > :11:25.fundamentalists? I have not had an answer to that question. The UK
:11:26. > :11:29.Government, Mr Speaker, is going to have a huge problem with legitimacy
:11:30. > :11:35.and mandate for this operation in Scotland. It might win the vote
:11:36. > :11:39.tonight, but it will do so with the support of only two out of 59
:11:40. > :11:41.Scottish MPs. The DUP's leader at Westminster
:11:42. > :11:51.said his party would be supporting Paris, like the downing of the
:11:52. > :11:59.Russian airliner, were assaults upon civilized values that have to be
:12:00. > :12:02.lived up to. To prevent evil spreading further, we must act. It
:12:03. > :12:08.is a heavy burden of responsibility. So, it is not a
:12:09. > :12:13.choice between military intervention on the one hand and political
:12:14. > :12:15.initiatives on the other, both go hand in hand.
:12:16. > :12:17.Lib Dem leader Tim Farron said the Prime Minister had broadly met
:12:18. > :12:20.the criteria the Lib Dems wanted to see fulfilled.
:12:21. > :12:26.This is the toughest call I think I have ever had to make, maybe ever,
:12:27. > :12:31.and certainly in this House, and what pushes me in the direction of
:12:32. > :12:36.the voting for action is, above all things, the United Nations
:12:37. > :12:43.resolution 2249, which calls for us to eradicate the safe haven that
:12:44. > :12:46.Isis have within Syria that does not just permit this country but urges
:12:47. > :12:53.this country and all members are capable of doing so to take all
:12:54. > :12:58.necessary action to get rid of Daesh. If we had just been asked to
:12:59. > :13:01.bomb Syria, I would be voting no, I would be out there demonstrating in
:13:02. > :13:07.between speeches and signing up to those e-mails, but this is not just
:13:08. > :13:10.a case of bombing, this is standing with the United Nations and the
:13:11. > :13:12.international community to do what is right by people who are the most
:13:13. > :13:13.beleaguered of all. Meanwhile the Green MP,
:13:14. > :13:16.Caroline Lucas, said military action should not be used
:13:17. > :13:26.unless there was evidence that it I share the horror and revulsion
:13:27. > :13:31.that the recent atrocities in Paris and elsewhere, yet I have still not
:13:32. > :13:36.heard convincing evidence that the UK bombing Isis targets in Syria
:13:37. > :13:40.will help bring about lasting peace in the region. The evidence appears
:13:41. > :13:42.to suggest it would make matters worse.
:13:43. > :13:44.You're watching Wednesday in Parliament on BBC Parliament.
:13:45. > :13:52.Peers air concerns and fears over action in Syria.
:13:53. > :13:55.The Syria debate, naturally, dominated the day in Parliament but
:13:56. > :14:02.Seb Coe, one-time Olympic gold-medallist, now president
:14:03. > :14:06.of the world athletics body the IAAF, was facing a committee of MPs.
:14:07. > :14:12.The long-standing problem of drugs in sport erupted into a huge scandal
:14:13. > :14:15.earlier this year when a German TV documentary claimed that blood
:14:16. > :14:19.doping had been carried out on a massive scale by athletes in Russia,
:14:20. > :14:22.with Russian officials and the IAAF involved
:14:23. > :14:29.After that came a report by the World Anti Doping Agency,
:14:30. > :14:31.which found corruption and bribery practices at the highest
:14:32. > :14:44.We can talk about processes and rules and laws but culture is the
:14:45. > :14:49.thing we have to address. Following the Olympics, your personal
:14:50. > :14:54.reputation made you came of the world, it went so well. I think your
:14:55. > :14:57.reputation is back on the line now that you've taken this job and I
:14:58. > :15:01.think it is going to be very difficult. Straight question, do you
:15:02. > :15:07.really think you can do this? You can break this culture if it does
:15:08. > :15:12.exist? Yes, I have two because I don't there are no tomorrow is for
:15:13. > :15:15.sport. I have to be honest, this is not within my normal framework of
:15:16. > :15:20.reference. I do not understand this culture. It is not the culture I was
:15:21. > :15:23.brought up with, it is not a velocity that any of my coaches had.
:15:24. > :15:32.My father would have killed somebody that suggested I to do anything at
:15:33. > :15:36.all to performance in hands. That was the non-negotiable nature of the
:15:37. > :15:42.environment I was brought up in and that was an environment that the
:15:43. > :15:46.vast majority of athletes are conjugal in and live in. I wanted to
:15:47. > :15:54.ask you, have you ever been offered a break? No. By nobody ever to read
:15:55. > :16:01.your whole career? No. You know anybody who has been offered a
:16:02. > :16:04.bribe? No. Never heard any chat about the track-side or subsequently
:16:05. > :16:11.from anybody who has ever said they were offered money? No. It is
:16:12. > :16:16.extraordinary for our sport that is so full of corruption that you have
:16:17. > :16:25.never come across it. I have really found in any environment that people
:16:26. > :16:30.that are doing corrupt acts tend to share that information with their
:16:31. > :16:35.co-workers. As a journalist myself, I have often heard gossip and gossip
:16:36. > :16:40.is often wrong but sometimes it is correct and it is quite often when
:16:41. > :16:46.following up. It is not our environment I have worked in. If the
:16:47. > :16:49.No, it is not and some serious No, it is not and some serious
:16:50. > :16:56.allegations have been made about former members of the IAAF and I
:16:57. > :17:00.accept that. But I don't believe the IAAF, across all its organisation,
:17:01. > :17:05.and across the vast majority of people that are involved in the
:17:06. > :17:11.sport, is a corrupt sport. Why hasn't the IAAF dealt with this
:17:12. > :17:14.issue earlier? Why haven't you been more prominent in pressing it said
:17:15. > :17:18.you had such a prominent role within the organisation? We were not aware
:17:19. > :17:23.of the specific nature of those allegations. I was certainly not
:17:24. > :17:28.aware of the specific allegation that was being made around the
:17:29. > :17:34.corruption of anti-doping processes in Russia. I would have been aware
:17:35. > :17:41.of the escalation of the problem and those concerns were relieved,
:17:42. > :17:46.encountered by me and by others -- relieved. But I do remind you that
:17:47. > :17:47.there are... They are very serious, I am not walking away from this,
:17:48. > :17:49.these are serious allegations. The MP noted that Lord Coe
:17:50. > :17:52.once also had a post within the international football body,
:17:53. > :18:03.Fifa. You're an exciter in these two
:18:04. > :18:09.organisations and you are a devilled by allegations for many years. You
:18:10. > :18:14.have been very closely involved in both organisations -- bedevilled by
:18:15. > :18:19.allegations. Why should we think, in these circumstances, that you are in
:18:20. > :18:27.the person to clean up this? I have the experience to do that. I had the
:18:28. > :18:32.support to do that. Have there been failures? Yes. Will I fix them?
:18:33. > :18:39.Absolutely. I we listening? Absolutely. I am focused on doing
:18:40. > :18:41.that and if we don't do that there are no tomorrows for my sport.
:18:42. > :18:44.Now, back to the debate on whether the UK should
:18:45. > :18:47.The House of Lords also suspended ordinary business to discuss
:18:48. > :18:51.the matter, 70 peers putting their names down to speak.
:18:52. > :18:53.Senior figures from the church and the army
:18:54. > :19:01.A former head of the British army was one
:19:02. > :19:11.It is my sincere hope that members on the other place or bought in
:19:12. > :19:15.significant numbers in favour of the motion they are debating. To do
:19:16. > :19:18.otherwise would send an appalling message that the UK has pulled up
:19:19. > :19:22.the drawbridge, is no longer an ally that can be trusted and has lost its
:19:23. > :19:30.appetite to be a positive influence in Europe and the wider world. My
:19:31. > :19:34.Lords, this is more about sending the right message, it is about being
:19:35. > :19:38.part of an effective coalition that is not only clear about is strategic
:19:39. > :19:42.objectives but also as a credible and coherent plan that takes us from
:19:43. > :19:46.where we are now to the defeat of the so-called Islamic State and onto
:19:47. > :19:47.a more secure and stable Syria and that wider region.
:19:48. > :19:48.The former Conservative Foreign Secretary,
:19:49. > :19:51.William, now Lord Hague, gave his maiden speech during the debate.
:19:52. > :19:54.He said the UK should always be open to imaginative diplomatic solutions,
:19:55. > :20:07.In the end, if communities and leaders cannot live peacefully
:20:08. > :20:10.together in Syria and Iraq, then we will have to try them living
:20:11. > :20:16.peacefully but separately in the partition of those countries,
:20:17. > :20:20.regretfully, though I say that. Well know literary force alone cannot
:20:21. > :20:25.defeat Daesh, they cannot be defeated without military force. I
:20:26. > :20:29.think that is a very obvious point. When they enslave women, when a
:20:30. > :20:35.murder hostages, when they persecute minorities, they are not seeking a
:20:36. > :20:38.negotiation and since our security as a United Kingdom rests on our
:20:39. > :20:43.alliances and our greatest alliances are with the United States and with
:20:44. > :20:48.brands, it would be extraordinary, we would need a very compelling
:20:49. > :20:52.reason as our security is indivisible from there is not
:20:53. > :20:53.stacked with them in this crisis -- United States and France.
:20:54. > :20:55.And Lord Hague finished by saying the use
:20:56. > :20:58.of small specialist ground forces from western nations in
:20:59. > :21:01.The Archbishop of Canterbury followed Lord Hague
:21:02. > :21:10.and said the House would benefit from his experience.
:21:11. > :21:19.The criteria to my mind have been met. But while there is... While
:21:20. > :21:23.they are necessary, they are not by themselves sufficient in action of
:21:24. > :21:28.this kind. Where we can end up doing the right thing in such a wrong way
:21:29. > :21:33.that it becomes the wrong thing. The communities that have lived there
:21:34. > :21:39.for 2000 years should not simply be emptied from that region. The
:21:40. > :21:44.additional military force we are bringing to this quasi policing
:21:45. > :21:48.operation, already acted over Syria, symbolically and to some extent
:21:49. > :21:53.significantly adds to what is happening there. But far more than
:21:54. > :21:59.that, it enables us to act where I were resources and expertise are
:22:00. > :22:06.world leading in the creation of post-conflict peace and
:22:07. > :22:12.nation-building. Only a holistic, the logical and global policy will
:22:13. > :22:18.achieve our aims. If you launch war, you'd want unpredictability. The
:22:19. > :22:21.best we are deciding on today is, on the balance of probabilities, this
:22:22. > :22:25.is the best opportunity we will have. There are no certainties. The
:22:26. > :22:32.second by Taiwan to make is, if we are successes -- successful in
:22:33. > :22:36.removing eyesore and creating the ability in Syria, it will be messy
:22:37. > :22:41.and won't look very nice. But peace we will be able to create, might be
:22:42. > :22:46.able to create. Probably the only thing you can say about the peace is
:22:47. > :22:52.that it will be better than the war it ended. What good does bombing do?
:22:53. > :22:56.It makes the people who make bombs happy. But it invites retaliation,
:22:57. > :23:02.which we have had and we may get more. The biggest question I have is
:23:03. > :23:06.who are we targeting? It is fine to say we can pinpoint people with
:23:07. > :23:12.drones, we have seen that bus there an off a lot of drones out there and
:23:13. > :23:15.an awful lot of people who are being killed and blown out of their
:23:16. > :23:20.houses. If we had the most abundant at night I would vote against it and
:23:21. > :23:26.in doing so I believe I would be voting for the majority of members
:23:27. > :23:30.of my own party. Last night, when the Liberal Democrat MPs said they
:23:31. > :23:35.were going to support the Government, with various caveats,
:23:36. > :23:40.there was a ripple of surprise and shock that went through the party
:23:41. > :23:45.and some of us spent a lot of time last night talking to people who
:23:46. > :23:48.were really quite angry and felt they had been let down by their MPs.
:23:49. > :23:54.airstrikes. Now, back to the debate in the House of Commons.
:23:55. > :23:58.The debate in the House of Commons drew to a close
:23:59. > :24:02.Summing up for the opposition, Labour's Hilary Benn was in
:24:03. > :24:08.the unusual position of taking an opposite stance to his party leader.
:24:09. > :24:17.We are here faced by fascists. Not just their calculator brutality but
:24:18. > :24:21.their belief that they are superior to every single one of us in this
:24:22. > :24:26.chamber tonight and all of the people that we represent. They hold
:24:27. > :24:33.us in contempt. They hauled our values in contempt, I were belief in
:24:34. > :24:36.tolerance and decency in contempt. They hauled our democracy, the means
:24:37. > :24:41.by which will make our decision night, in contempt. And what we know
:24:42. > :24:51.about fascists is that they need to be defeated. My view, Mr Speaker, is
:24:52. > :24:58.that we must now confront this evil. It is now time for us to do
:24:59. > :25:01.our bit in Syria. That is why I ask my colleagues to a vote for this
:25:02. > :25:08.motion tonight. APPLAUSE
:25:09. > :25:10.The Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond put the case
:25:11. > :25:21.What kind of a country would we be if we refused to act in the face of
:25:22. > :25:28.a threat to our security as clear as the one that I thought poses.
:25:29. > :25:33.Indeed, Mr Speaker, what kind of a country would we be if we were
:25:34. > :25:38.unmoved by the murder, the rape, the beheadings and the slavery that
:25:39. > :25:46.Islamic State imposes on its subjects. What kind of a country
:25:47. > :25:50.would we be if we ignored the calls for help from our nearest
:25:51. > :25:56.neighbours, even as they grieve for their dead.
:25:57. > :26:00.That's all from me for now. From me, Georgina Pattinson,