0:00:14 > 0:00:17Hello and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament -
0:00:17 > 0:00:20our look at the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23On this programme, a taxing issue for the Prime Minister
0:00:23 > 0:00:25or quite straightforward?
0:00:25 > 0:00:28Jeremy Corbyn tries to pin David Cameron down on the size
0:00:28 > 0:00:31of that tax payment by Google.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34Why is there one rule for big, multinational companies and another
0:00:34 > 0:00:40for ordinary, small businesses and self-employed workers?
0:00:40 > 0:00:45The proposal to limit Universal Credit to two children,
0:00:45 > 0:00:49Peers voice their concerns.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52These proposals as a whole might be seen as signalling that not every
0:00:52 > 0:00:54child is precious.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57And after a winter of intensive flooding, is the Thames Barrier
0:00:57 > 0:01:01fit for purpose?
0:01:01 > 0:01:03A Labour Peer thinks action is needed.
0:01:03 > 0:01:09To say categorically that we need to do nothing
0:01:09 > 0:01:11with the Thames Barrier to 2070, seems to me,
0:01:11 > 0:01:13a little bit over-hopeful.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16But first, David Cameron has defended the deal the authorities
0:01:16 > 0:01:19have struck with Google over tax, saying the Conservatives have done
0:01:19 > 0:01:22more than any other Government.
0:01:22 > 0:01:26The technology giant has agreed to pay ?130 million in tax
0:01:26 > 0:01:29to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32The payment covers money owed since 2005 and follows a six-year
0:01:32 > 0:01:36enquiry by HMRC.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39But critics have called the 130 million derisory.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42It was an obvious subject for the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn
0:01:42 > 0:01:45to focus on at Prime Minister's Questions.
0:01:45 > 0:01:55He said experts indicated Google was paying a tax rate on its UK
0:01:56 > 0:01:59profits of, in effect, 3%.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02The Chancellor of the Exchequer described this arrangement
0:02:02 > 0:02:04as a major success while the Prime Minister's official spokesperson
0:02:04 > 0:02:07only called it a step forward.
0:02:07 > 0:02:12The Mayor of London described the payment as quite derisory.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15What exactly is the Government's position on this 3%
0:02:15 > 0:02:22rate of taxation?
0:02:22 > 0:02:25We have put in place the diverted profit tax,
0:02:25 > 0:02:27that means this company and other companies will pay more
0:02:27 > 0:02:30tax in future.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33And more tax in future than they ever paid under Labour,
0:02:33 > 0:02:35where the tax rate for Google was zero percent.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38We have done more on tax evasion and tax avoidance
0:02:38 > 0:02:40than Labour ever did.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43The truth is, Mr Speaker, they are running to catch up
0:02:43 > 0:02:47but they haven't got a leg to stand on.
0:02:47 > 0:02:52Mr Speaker, it was under a Labour Government,
0:02:52 > 0:03:02enquiries begun into Google and in addition, as a percentage
0:03:05 > 0:03:09of GDP, corporation tax receipts are lower under this Government
0:03:09 > 0:03:11than they were under previous governments.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14I have got a question here, Mr Speaker, from a gentleman called
0:03:14 > 0:03:16Geoff.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19You might well laugh but Geoff actually speaks for millions
0:03:19 > 0:03:25of people when he says to me, can you ask the Prime Minister if,
0:03:25 > 0:03:30as a working man of over 30 years, whether there is a scheme
0:03:30 > 0:03:33which I can join that pays the same rate of tax as Google
0:03:33 > 0:03:38and other large corporations?
0:03:38 > 0:03:42What does the Prime Minister say to Geoff?
0:03:42 > 0:03:46What I say to Geoff is that his taxes are coming down under this
0:03:46 > 0:03:50Government and Google's taxes are going up under this Government.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54Let me say again, if, like me, he's genuinely angry
0:03:54 > 0:03:57about what happened to Google under Labour, can I tell him a few people
0:03:57 > 0:03:59he could call?
0:03:59 > 0:04:01Maybe he should start by calling Tony Blair, you can
0:04:01 > 0:04:04get him at JP Morgan.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06Call Gordon Brown, apparently you can get him at a Californian
0:04:06 > 0:04:09bond dealer called Pimco.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12He could call Alistair Darling, I think he is at Morgan Stanley
0:04:12 > 0:04:14but it is hard to keep up.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17Those are the people to blame for Google not paying their taxes.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20We are the ones that got them to pay.
0:04:20 > 0:04:26SHOUTING The problem is, Mr Speaker that the Prime Minister
0:04:26 > 0:04:30is the Prime Minister, is responsible for the Government
0:04:30 > 0:04:35and therefore is responsible for tax collection.
0:04:35 > 0:04:40Millions of people this week are filling in their tax returns
0:04:40 > 0:04:44to get them in by the 31st. They have to send the form back.
0:04:44 > 0:04:49They do not get the option of 25 meetings with 17 ministers to decide
0:04:49 > 0:04:54what their rate of tax is.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58Many people, going to their HMRC offices or returning
0:04:58 > 0:05:01them online this week, will say this, why is there one rule
0:05:01 > 0:05:04for big, multinational companies and another for ordinary,
0:05:04 > 0:05:10small businesses and self-employed workers?
0:05:10 > 0:05:13All those people filling in their tax returns are going to be
0:05:13 > 0:05:16paying lower taxes under this Government.
0:05:16 > 0:05:21That is what's happening. The Shadow Chancellor is pointing.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23The idea that those two right honourable gentlemen would stand up
0:05:23 > 0:05:27to anyone in this regard is laughable.
0:05:27 > 0:05:32Look at the record over the last week.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35They met with the unions and they gave them flying pickets.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38They met with the Argentinians, they gave them the Falkland Islands.
0:05:38 > 0:05:40They met with a bunch of migrants in Calais,
0:05:40 > 0:05:42they said they could all come to Britain.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45The only people they never stand up for are the British people
0:05:45 > 0:05:48and hard-working taxpayers.
0:05:48 > 0:05:53Jeremy Corbyn did not pick up on David Cameron's phrase,
0:05:53 > 0:05:56"a bunch of migrants" and moved on to the day's big legal judgment.
0:05:56 > 0:06:00We've had no answers on Google, we've had no answers on Geoff.
0:06:00 > 0:06:05Can I raise with him another unfair tax policy that does affect many
0:06:05 > 0:06:09people in this country?
0:06:09 > 0:06:12This morning, the Court of Appeals ruled that the bedroom tax
0:06:12 > 0:06:18is discriminatory because of its impact...
0:06:18 > 0:06:25I don't know why members opposite find this funny because it isn't.
0:06:25 > 0:06:29The ruling is, because of its impact on vulnerable individuals,
0:06:29 > 0:06:37including victims of domestic violence and disabled children.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Will the Prime Minister now read the judgment and finally abandon
0:06:40 > 0:06:42this cruel and unjust policy which has now been ruled
0:06:42 > 0:06:46to be illegal?
0:06:46 > 0:06:49We always look very carefully at the judgments on these occasions
0:06:49 > 0:06:53but of course, our fundamental position is that it is unfair
0:06:53 > 0:06:56to subsidise spare rooms in the social sector if you don't
0:06:56 > 0:07:00subsidise them in the private sector when people are paying their housing
0:07:00 > 0:07:04benefit and that is a basic issue of fairness.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07Isn't it interesting that the first pledge he makes is something that
0:07:07 > 0:07:11can cost as much as ?2.5 billion in the next Parliament.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14Who is going to pay for that? Geoff will pay for it.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17The people filling in their tax returns will pay for it.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21Why is it that he always wants to see more welfare,
0:07:21 > 0:07:24higher taxes, more borrowing - all things that got us into the mess
0:07:24 > 0:07:26in the first place?
0:07:26 > 0:07:30David Cameron.
0:07:30 > 0:07:36January 27th is Holocaust Memorial Day, as it was in 1945
0:07:36 > 0:07:39when the Auschwitz concentration camp was liberated by the Soviet
0:07:39 > 0:07:41Army.
0:07:41 > 0:07:45It is estimated six million Jewish men, women and children perished
0:07:45 > 0:07:48in concentration camps over a five-year period.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52There are a number of Holocaust memorials around the world,
0:07:52 > 0:07:55now there is to be a new permanent one in London.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58This site is at the Houses of Parliament as the Prime Minister
0:07:58 > 0:08:00explained.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03Mr Speaker, I know the whole House will want to join me in marking
0:08:03 > 0:08:05Holocaust Memorial Day.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08It is right that our whole country should stand together to remember
0:08:08 > 0:08:10the darkest hour of humanity.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13Last year, on the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz,
0:08:13 > 0:08:16I said we would build a striking national memorial in London to show
0:08:16 > 0:08:19the importance Britain places on preserving the memory
0:08:19 > 0:08:22of the Holocaust.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24Today, I can tell the House, this memorial will be built
0:08:24 > 0:08:27in Victoria Tower Gardens.
0:08:27 > 0:08:29It will stand beside Parliament as a permanent statement
0:08:29 > 0:08:33of our values as a nation and it'll be for our children to visit
0:08:33 > 0:08:35for generations to come.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38I am grateful to all those who have made this possible and who have
0:08:38 > 0:08:40given this work the cross-party status that it so profoundly
0:08:41 > 0:08:42deserves.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46On behalf of the opposition, could I welcome the remarks
0:08:46 > 0:08:48the Prime Minister has just made about Holocaust Memorial Day.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51It is the 71st anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz
0:08:51 > 0:08:54Birkenau.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56We have to remember the deepest, darkest days of humanity
0:08:56 > 0:08:59that happened then and the genocide that
0:08:59 > 0:09:02has sadly happened since and educate another generation to avoid those
0:09:02 > 0:09:05for all time in the future.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07I thank the Prime Minister for what he said.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10For his questions to the Prime Minister, the leader
0:09:10 > 0:09:13of the third biggest party, Angus Robertson, the SNP,
0:09:13 > 0:09:16focused on the issue of women's pensions.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19During John Major's Government, plans were announced to raise
0:09:19 > 0:09:23the state pension age for women from 60 to 65 between 2010 and 2020
0:09:23 > 0:09:26but four years ago, the Coalition Government speeded up
0:09:26 > 0:09:29the process and many have complained it has given women too little time
0:09:29 > 0:09:33to prepare for the change.
0:09:33 > 0:09:40He is aware of the state pension inequality that is impacting on many
0:09:40 > 0:09:43women and in this Parliament voted unanimously for the Government to,
0:09:43 > 0:09:47and I quote, "Immediately introduce transitional arrangements for those
0:09:47 > 0:09:51women negatively affected by pension equalisation."
0:09:51 > 0:09:54What is the Prime Minister going to do to respect the decision
0:09:54 > 0:09:58of this Parliament and help those women who are affected,
0:09:58 > 0:10:01those who were born in the 1950s and should have had proper notice
0:10:01 > 0:10:04to plan their finances and their retirement?
0:10:04 > 0:10:08What I would say to the honourable gentleman, first of all,
0:10:08 > 0:10:11the equalisation of the retirement age came about on the basis
0:10:11 > 0:10:15of equality which was a judgment by the European court,
0:10:15 > 0:10:17that we put in place in the 1990s.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20When this Government decided rightly, in my view,
0:10:20 > 0:10:25to raise the retirement view, we made the decision that no one
0:10:25 > 0:10:32should suffer a greater than 18 month increase in their retirement
0:10:32 > 0:10:34age and that is the decision that this House took.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37In terms of ending discrimination in the pension system,
0:10:37 > 0:10:40I would say that the introduction of the single-tier pension and ?155
0:10:40 > 0:10:43a week will be one of the best ways we can end discrimination
0:10:43 > 0:10:45in the pension system because so many women retiring
0:10:45 > 0:10:48will get so much more in their pension which of course,
0:10:48 > 0:10:52in this Government, is triple-lock protected, so they will get
0:10:52 > 0:10:54inflation earnings or 2.5%.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56Never again, the derisory 75p increase in the pension.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58David Cameron.
0:10:58 > 0:11:01The footage shown on the BBC's Panorama programme of staff
0:11:01 > 0:11:04at a secure training centre apparently assaulting youngsters has
0:11:04 > 0:11:07caused plenty of reaction.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10The undercover team filmed the scenes at the G4S-run Medway
0:11:10 > 0:11:13Secure Training Centre in Kent, which holds children aged
0:11:13 > 0:11:22between 12 and 18.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25The Shadow Home Secretary Andy Burnham called for G4S to be
0:11:25 > 0:11:27stripped of its contract to run children's prisons.
0:11:27 > 0:11:29The former head of the prison service of England and Wales,
0:11:29 > 0:11:32Sir Martin Narey, has been a paid consultant for G4S, work
0:11:32 > 0:11:35that he was asked about when he came before the Commons
0:11:35 > 0:11:36Education Committee.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38Sir Martin is currently making a review of children's residential
0:11:38 > 0:11:39care in England.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42I just think for the perspective of transparency, you have
0:11:42 > 0:11:45a connection with G4S so if anything, that drifts
0:11:45 > 0:11:50into an area where G4S are managing establishments.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52How would you manage that?
0:11:52 > 0:11:55I did have a connection with G4S.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59I wasn't required to do that but recently, I was asked
0:11:59 > 0:12:01by Michael Gove to join the Home Office board
0:12:01 > 0:12:05for presentation reasons, I severed my relationships with G4S.
0:12:05 > 0:12:09Although I don't apologise for having that relationship
0:12:09 > 0:12:13and even after the appalling events that Medway, I think
0:12:13 > 0:12:17there are people in that part of G4S trying very hard in prisons
0:12:17 > 0:12:20and accommodation for young offenders which treats offenders
0:12:20 > 0:12:23with decency and dignity.
0:12:23 > 0:12:27I make no apology for having tried to help them to do that
0:12:27 > 0:12:29a little over the years.
0:12:29 > 0:12:33I only did a total of about 15 days a year over three years,
0:12:33 > 0:12:35but I have severed that entirely.
0:12:35 > 0:12:36They understand why.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39And certainly any recommendations I make in this report,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41people will have to judge for themselves, but they will
0:12:41 > 0:12:45certainly not be influenced by any of the interests of G4S or any other
0:12:45 > 0:12:49provider in the private or voluntary sector.
0:12:49 > 0:12:51Sir Martin Narey.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53You're watching our round-up of the day in the Commons
0:12:53 > 0:12:54and the Lords.
0:12:54 > 0:12:58Still to come - is the Thames Barrier fit for purpose?
0:13:01 > 0:13:04The government has agreed to make exemptions from its proposals
0:13:04 > 0:13:07to limit Universal Credit to two children.
0:13:07 > 0:13:12Universal Credit is the new system that merges existing benefits
0:13:12 > 0:13:14into one monthly payment for people out of work
0:13:14 > 0:13:16and those on low incomes.
0:13:16 > 0:13:19The Welfare Minister, Lord Freud, said in the Lords that people
0:13:19 > 0:13:22who adopt sibling groups will be exempt, to prevent brothers
0:13:22 > 0:13:26and sisters being separated when they're adopted.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29And people who take in the children of family members, to stop them
0:13:29 > 0:13:32going into the care system, will also be exempt.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35The exemptions to the Welfare Reform and Work Bill were put forward
0:13:35 > 0:13:38by the Bishop of Portsmouth.
0:13:38 > 0:13:44I, along with others in this House, indicated our regret that these
0:13:44 > 0:13:48proposals as a whole might be seen as signalling that not every child
0:13:48 > 0:13:56is precious and deserves love and support not only of parents
0:13:56 > 0:13:59and families, but of community, society and nation.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03Nevertheless, I recognise the intent of the government.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06The first three exemptions relate directly
0:14:06 > 0:14:11to unforeseen circumstances which could not have been planned
0:14:11 > 0:14:17for when a decision was being made about family size.
0:14:17 > 0:14:22However carefully and responsibly consideration took place,
0:14:22 > 0:14:28these circumstances could not have been reasonably expected.
0:14:28 > 0:14:33The death of a parent drastically changes family circumstances.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36This is in fact about a family of three children
0:14:36 > 0:14:38who are working, but struggling anyway.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41It is about all those who have children, confident
0:14:41 > 0:14:43they could provide for them, until, as the Right Reverend Prelate
0:14:43 > 0:14:45pointed out, something went wrong.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47Perhaps their spouse died, they got sick and couldn't work,
0:14:47 > 0:14:50a parent lost their job, etc.
0:14:50 > 0:14:53So, my lords, all the things a welfare state was meant
0:14:53 > 0:14:55to protect against.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58So it seems to me utterly astonishing to have a
0:14:58 > 0:15:02situation where those who are prepared to take children
0:15:02 > 0:15:06out of care or take, perhaps, members of the family
0:15:06 > 0:15:08who they then adopt,
0:15:08 > 0:15:12but already have children, will be penalised for doing
0:15:12 > 0:15:15something that is actually entirely in line
0:15:15 > 0:15:20with what the government has said in its adoption policies.
0:15:20 > 0:15:24And so, it seems to me quite extraordinary that the government
0:15:24 > 0:15:28does not exclude adoption and kinship care.
0:15:28 > 0:15:31And the noble lady Baroness Sherlock has set it out
0:15:31 > 0:15:33better than I could,
0:15:33 > 0:15:35and in great detail, so I don't want to reflect
0:15:35 > 0:15:38on it, but just to point out this that she said.
0:15:38 > 0:15:43That it is very expensive to keep children in care.
0:15:43 > 0:15:48I am pleased to announce today that in recognition of the important role
0:15:48 > 0:15:53that family and close friends can play in caring long-term
0:15:53 > 0:15:55for children who are unable to live with
0:15:55 > 0:16:00their parents and could otherwise be at risk of entering the care system,
0:16:00 > 0:16:06we are in favour of exemption for children in such circumstances.
0:16:06 > 0:16:11We do recognise that it is often in the best interest of the children
0:16:11 > 0:16:15for them to be placed in their sibling group.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19Recognising this, I am also able to announce that we are in favour
0:16:19 > 0:16:23of an exemption where there were previously fewer than
0:16:23 > 0:16:26two children in a household and the adoption of a sibling group
0:16:26 > 0:16:32causes the number of children to exceed two, again we intend
0:16:32 > 0:16:39to use regulations to provide for this exemption.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41Supported housing for vulnerable people -
0:16:41 > 0:16:43such as the elderly,
0:16:43 > 0:16:45homeless, disabled and victims of domestic violence -
0:16:45 > 0:16:49is to be exempt from cuts to social rents for a year.
0:16:49 > 0:16:53The cut could have made it difficult for providers
0:16:53 > 0:16:54to deliver specialist services.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58The announcement came as Labour used a debate in the Commons to call
0:16:58 > 0:17:00on the Government to exempt supported housing from further
0:17:00 > 0:17:04reductions in housing benefit - which the party's spokesman said
0:17:04 > 0:17:07would put hundreds of thousands of elderly and vulnerable people
0:17:07 > 0:17:09at risk.
0:17:09 > 0:17:11The Chancellor's crude housing benefit cut
0:17:11 > 0:17:15could hit the lives of hundreds of thousands of people who totally
0:17:15 > 0:17:18depend on this specialist housing,
0:17:18 > 0:17:24many the most vulnerable people with nowhere else to turn.
0:17:24 > 0:17:30The National Housing Federation now say that 156,000 homes,
0:17:30 > 0:17:35or at least that number of people, are set to close.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37A survey by Inside Housing found that one in four supported
0:17:37 > 0:17:44housing providers are set to close everything while 19 out of 20 say
0:17:44 > 0:17:47they will close some of their supported accommodation.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49Surely he has got to concede that this is not
0:17:49 > 0:17:51a back-of-a-fag-packet policy, that this government is doing
0:17:51 > 0:17:53the sensible thing of actually collating
0:17:53 > 0:17:56all the information, the data, the demonstrable data,
0:17:56 > 0:18:00into a proper scoping exercise on assisted housing
0:18:00 > 0:18:03with impact assessment?
0:18:03 > 0:18:06Also put aside almost ?500 million for
0:18:06 > 0:18:10discretionary housing payments and the changes will not be taking
0:18:10 > 0:18:13effect until April 2018.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16Surely that is a sensible policy this government is pursuing?
0:18:16 > 0:18:20The test of a good society is you look after the elderly,
0:18:20 > 0:18:27the frail, the vulnerable, the poorest in our society.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29So will the government confirm today,
0:18:29 > 0:18:33act immediately, confirm they will exempt in full
0:18:33 > 0:18:37from this crude, sweeping housing benefits cut
0:18:37 > 0:18:42those in supported and sheltered housing?
0:18:42 > 0:18:46And will they work with those who provide this housing to make
0:18:46 > 0:18:50sure that it is secure for the future?
0:18:50 > 0:18:52This government has always been clear that the most vulnerable
0:18:52 > 0:18:55will be supported through our welfare reforms.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58We know that the welfare system is vital for supporting
0:18:58 > 0:18:59vulnerable people.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03And we know it is essential that all vulnerable people have a roof
0:19:03 > 0:19:04over their head.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06That is why we have been determined to support
0:19:06 > 0:19:07their housing needs.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11We have set aside over ?500 million to create a strong safety net
0:19:11 > 0:19:12against homelessness.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15We recently pledged ?40 million for domestic abuse services
0:19:15 > 0:19:18to ensure that no victim is turned away from the support
0:19:18 > 0:19:19that they need.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22And in the Autumn Statement, we announced a further
0:19:22 > 0:19:23?400 million...
0:19:23 > 0:19:24In just a few moments.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27?400 million to deliver 8000 specialist affordable homes
0:19:27 > 0:19:31for the vulnerable, elderly, all those with disabilities.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33But the minister had a concession.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36In the meantime, the 1% reduction will be deferred
0:19:36 > 0:19:40for 12 months for supported accommodation.
0:19:40 > 0:19:44We will get the findings of the review in the spring.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47And we will work with the sector to ensure the essential services
0:19:47 > 0:19:52they deliver continue to be provided whilst protecting the taxpayer.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55Making sure that we make best use of the taxpayer's money and meet
0:19:55 > 0:19:59government's fiscal commitments.
0:19:59 > 0:20:05And we will look urgently at this to provide certainty for the sector.
0:20:05 > 0:20:06I have to give way.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08Thanks to the Minister for giving way.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10And for setting out the next steps.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12Can I just put it politely to him that
0:20:12 > 0:20:15he ought to have done this kind of research before making
0:20:15 > 0:20:18the announcement in the first place?
0:20:18 > 0:20:22And can he now also tell the House, to give certainty to those housing
0:20:22 > 0:20:27providers, precisely what kind of measures will be implemented
0:20:27 > 0:20:31to offset the changes in housing benefit?
0:20:31 > 0:20:33I would genuinely say to the honourable gentleman
0:20:33 > 0:20:36that the mess that the last Labour government left
0:20:36 > 0:20:38this country financially means that we have to take
0:20:38 > 0:20:40difficult decisions and we have to move quickly to ensure
0:20:40 > 0:20:42the hard-working taxpayers are properly
0:20:42 > 0:20:45protected and I'm proud to be working with a Chancellor who sees
0:20:45 > 0:20:48that as one of our first and foremost duties.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50More information on the scale, shape and cost of the supported
0:20:50 > 0:20:53accommodation sector should be available through the evidence
0:20:53 > 0:21:00reviewed jointly commissioned
0:21:06 > 0:21:08-- review jointly commissioned
0:21:08 > 0:21:10by the Department for Communities and Local Government
0:21:10 > 0:21:12and the Department for Work and Pensions.
0:21:12 > 0:21:13If the government don't know the impact,
0:21:13 > 0:21:14then why make the change?
0:21:14 > 0:21:16Madam Deputy Speaker, this Tory government must
0:21:16 > 0:21:18halt their continued assault on housing benefit
0:21:18 > 0:21:21in order to ensure that those who need supported housing are not
0:21:21 > 0:21:22literally left out in the cold.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25At the end, a Labour motion calling for an exemption from housing
0:21:25 > 0:21:28benefit cuts for supported housing was rejected by 47 votes.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31Now, what does the future hold for the Thames Barrier?
0:21:31 > 0:21:34Lying six miles to the east of the City of London,
0:21:34 > 0:21:36the Barrier was constructed in the wake of the devastating
0:21:36 > 0:21:39East Coast floods of 1953.
0:21:39 > 0:21:43Finished in 1983, the 1,700 foot structure is said to have paid
0:21:43 > 0:21:46for itself many times over in the three decades
0:21:46 > 0:21:48it's been operating.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51But the frequency of closures in recent months has led to fears
0:21:51 > 0:21:54it could be operating close to the limits of what it can do,
0:21:54 > 0:21:56to protect London.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59In the Lords, a Government spokesman said the future performance
0:21:59 > 0:22:02of the Barrier was assessed in the document,
0:22:02 > 0:22:06the Thames Estuary 2100 Plan.
0:22:06 > 0:22:07This plan, produced by the Environment Agency
0:22:07 > 0:22:11and stakeholders along the estuary, sets out how to manage tidal flood
0:22:11 > 0:22:14risk up to the end of the century.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16The plan is reviewed every five years.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18Based on these projections, the Thames Barrier
0:22:18 > 0:22:25is expected to protect London to its current standard up to 2070.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28My Lords, I am grateful to the noble lord for that response,
0:22:28 > 0:22:30but he will be aware that the Thames Barrier was raised
0:22:30 > 0:22:34twice per annum on average in its first ten years of existence,
0:22:34 > 0:22:38and is now raised on average eight times per annum.
0:22:38 > 0:22:43And it reached a peak of 48 times in 2014.
0:22:43 > 0:22:48The government, as a result, in 2012 decided it was appropriate
0:22:48 > 0:22:55to extend the life of the Thames Barrier from 2030 to 2070.
0:22:55 > 0:22:59And despite concerns about freak storms and rising sea levels,
0:22:59 > 0:23:03we know that the government has been complacent as far
0:23:03 > 0:23:07as the cities of York and Leeds and the county of Cumbria
0:23:07 > 0:23:10have been concerned, in terms of floods.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12Why should we have any more confidence in their
0:23:12 > 0:23:16decision to extend the life of the Thames Barrier by 40 years?
0:23:16 > 0:23:20My Lords, I reject the noble Lord's accusations about the goodwill
0:23:20 > 0:23:22of this government.
0:23:22 > 0:23:26And if I could compare expenditure, this government
0:23:26 > 0:23:29is proposing capital expenditure of ?2.3 billion
0:23:29 > 0:23:31in the next six years.
0:23:31 > 0:23:36That compares with the last Labour government of ?1.5 billion.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38A real-terms increase...
0:23:38 > 0:23:40My Lords, I am normally a great believer in as much
0:23:40 > 0:23:43salt water as possible, but I have to say I do believe
0:23:43 > 0:23:48that there is just a slight element of complacency.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51I know a lot of work has gone into this.
0:23:51 > 0:23:52I was involved in the resilience work.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55But the speed at which things are changing is such
0:23:55 > 0:23:57that to say categorically that we need to do nothing
0:23:57 > 0:24:00with the Thames Barrier until 2070
0:24:00 > 0:24:03seems to me a little bit over-hopeful.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05And will the noble Lord the minister agree
0:24:05 > 0:24:08that we may well have do something well before that
0:24:08 > 0:24:11and it will take a considerable time to put into place?
0:24:11 > 0:24:15My noble Lord, I do apologise if I in any sense suggested
0:24:15 > 0:24:20that this would only wait until 2070.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22As I said, the review will be every five years.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25It is absolutely essential that we keep up-to-date.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28My Lords, as a Treasury minister I was much involved
0:24:28 > 0:24:31in the original decision on the Thames Barrier.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35I very much wanted to make it part of a hydroelectric scheme
0:24:35 > 0:24:37but my officials said that would cause delay,
0:24:37 > 0:24:42the Thames would break its banks, the London Underground would be
0:24:42 > 0:24:52flooded and did I want to take that responsibility?
0:24:52 > 0:24:54So we are where we are!
0:24:54 > 0:24:57But, my Lords, will my noble friend consider
0:24:57 > 0:25:02whether in the plans which he rightly set out a moment
0:25:02 > 0:25:04ago, whether one should consider
0:25:04 > 0:25:07that there is some possibility of using the tidal flow
0:25:07 > 0:25:13of the Thames to generate electricity, given the increasing
0:25:13 > 0:25:18claims for having fuel which is not carbon-based?
0:25:18 > 0:25:21My Lords, I will certainly raise this with my noble friend
0:25:21 > 0:25:24in the Department of Energy and Climate Change.
0:25:24 > 0:25:26Clearly it is important in this country that
0:25:26 > 0:25:32we use many alternative sources of energy supply.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35I think that is a very interesting concept.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37And that's it for this programme.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39But do join me for our next daily round-up.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43Until then, from me Keith Macdougall, goodbye.