:00:11. > :00:14.Hello there and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament.
:00:15. > :00:16.On this programme: In the wake of the Panama papers
:00:17. > :00:31.Prime Minister's questions is all about tax.
:00:32. > :00:37.Since 2010, we've put over ?1 billion into HMRC to increase its
:00:38. > :00:38.capabilities. The Government defends plans to turn
:00:39. > :00:41.all English schools into academies. And a handful of MPs get
:00:42. > :00:43.the chance every year to bring in their own laws -
:00:44. > :00:54.but there are demands The procedure for debating and 14 on
:00:55. > :00:58.private members bills is dishonest and misleading. It is an expensive
:00:59. > :00:59.and frustrating waste of time. But first, the Panama Papers tax
:01:00. > :01:01.revelations dominated The leaked documents showed how
:01:02. > :01:06.the rich moved money offshore The whole row prompted
:01:07. > :01:12.David Cameron, the Chancellor George Osborne and Labour leader
:01:13. > :01:14.Jeremy Corbyn to publish At Prime Minister's questions
:01:15. > :01:22.Jeremy Corbyn turned to how much tax was being collected in the UK
:01:23. > :01:25.and questioned how many people were being employed
:01:26. > :01:39.by Her Majesty's Revenue Wendy HMRC says that the tax gap is
:01:40. > :01:47.?34 billion, why then is he cutting HMRC staff I 20% and cutting down
:01:48. > :01:54.tax offices, which loses the expertise of people to close that
:01:55. > :01:57.tax gap? I'm glad he wants to get onto our responsibilities to pay our
:01:58. > :02:02.taxes. I think that's very important. His tax return was a
:02:03. > :02:11.metaphor for Labour policy, it was late, chaotic, inaccurate. Turning
:02:12. > :02:18.to the specific questions, he's absolutely right to identify the tax
:02:19. > :02:24.gap and that is why we closed off loopholes in the last Parliament,
:02:25. > :02:28.equivalent of ?12 billion. We aim to close off loopholes in this
:02:29. > :02:33.Parliament equivalent to ?16 billion to the HMRC is taking very strong
:02:34. > :02:36.action backed by this Government, backed by the Chancellor, legislated
:02:37. > :02:42.for by this House and I think I'm right in saying that since 2010, we
:02:43. > :02:44.have put over ?1 billion into HMRC to increase its capabilities to
:02:45. > :02:49.collect the tax that people should be paying. I am grateful to the
:02:50. > :02:58.Prime Minister for drawing your attention to my own tax return,
:02:59. > :03:02.warts and all. I made a generous to nation to HMRC. I paid more tax than
:03:03. > :03:03.some companies owned by people that he might know quite well.
:03:04. > :03:05.A reference there to George Osborne's family firm.
:03:06. > :03:18.Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is cutting tax abuse, he's cutting down
:03:19. > :03:24.on tax collectors. The tax collected helps to fund our NHS and all the
:03:25. > :03:33.other services. Last month, the OBR reported that HMRC doesn't have the
:03:34. > :03:38.necessary resources to tackle of -- offshore tax disclosures. The
:03:39. > :03:42.Government is committed to taking ?4 million out of HMRC's budget by
:03:43. > :03:49.2020. Will he reversed that Carter we can collect the tax that will
:03:50. > :03:54.help to pay for services? Rather than his tax return, his figures
:03:55. > :03:59.aren't entirely accurate. At the summer budget 2015, we get ?800
:04:00. > :04:03.million to HMRC to find additional work and tackle tax evasion and
:04:04. > :04:14.noncompliance between now and 2021. This will enable HMRC to recover
:04:15. > :04:21.?7.2 billion in tax. 3250 DWP staff have been specifically investigating
:04:22. > :04:28.benefit fraud whilst only 300 HMRC staff have been systematically
:04:29. > :04:31.investigating tax evasion. Surely we should care equally about people
:04:32. > :04:39.abusing the tax system and those abusing the benefit system. Why has
:04:40. > :04:43.this Government had ten times more staff dealing often with the poorest
:04:44. > :04:51.in society abusing benefits than with the super rich invading their
:04:52. > :04:56.taxes? I will look carefully at those statistics but the centimetre
:04:57. > :05:03.entirely bogus. For this reason, the job of the DWP is to make sure that
:05:04. > :05:08.people receive their benefits, the predominant job of HMRC is to make
:05:09. > :05:13.sure people pay their taxes. The 26,000 people I spoke about early,
:05:14. > :05:14.all of them are making sure that people pay their taxes. The clue is
:05:15. > :05:15.in the title. As ever the subjects
:05:16. > :05:17.raised by back bench MPs ranged far and wide,
:05:18. > :05:28.including to the forthcoming If the British people vote to leave
:05:29. > :05:40.the European Union, will the Prime Minister remained in office to
:05:41. > :05:46.implement the decision? Yes. Over 200,000 economic migrants came from
:05:47. > :05:49.the European Union and yet the propaganda sheet sent out to the
:05:50. > :05:54.British people claims we maintain control of our borders. Having
:05:55. > :06:03.withdrawn from the free movement of people or is that she simply untrue?
:06:04. > :06:05.-- sheet. The truth is economic migrants who come to the European
:06:06. > :06:10.Union do not have the right to come to the UK, they are not European
:06:11. > :06:14.nationals. They are nationals of Morocco or Pakistan or Turkey. None
:06:15. > :06:19.of those people have the right and so this is very important. Frankly,
:06:20. > :06:24.this is important why we do send information to house can see the
:06:25. > :06:27.truth about what is being proposed. What might honourable friend is
:06:28. > :06:31.classic of the scare story we get. Britain has borders, Britain will
:06:32. > :06:33.keep its borders. We got the best of both worlds.
:06:34. > :06:36.The Government has defended its plan to force every school in England
:06:37. > :06:39.The proposal has led to teachers calling for a one-day strike
:06:40. > :06:42.as part of a campaign against the proposed changes.
:06:43. > :06:50.The cross-party Local Government Association has said the move defies
:06:51. > :06:52.reason and the leader of backbench Conservative MPs, Graham Brady,
:06:53. > :07:02.But the Education Secretary has said she has no intention of backing down
:07:03. > :07:05.and at Question Time, David Cameron, too, was adamant that there'd be no
:07:06. > :07:15.Research by the Sutton trust shows that turning schools into academies
:07:16. > :07:21.doesn't necessarily improve them. Thousands of excellent primary
:07:22. > :07:25.schools, parents want them to continue to be maintained by local
:07:26. > :07:27.authorities. Why are ministers are planning to overrule periods and
:07:28. > :07:34.force those schools to become academies? I think the evidence
:07:35. > :07:42.shows academies work as part of our education reforms. Let me give you
:07:43. > :07:45.the evidence. If you look at those schools that converted into
:07:46. > :07:49.academies, 80% of them are either outstanding or good schools. If you
:07:50. > :08:01.look at the sponsored academies, often failing schools, but which are
:08:02. > :08:05.actually now sponsored by academies, there has been an average 10%
:08:06. > :08:10.improvement over the first two years so the evidence is that the results
:08:11. > :08:14.are better, the freedoms we to improvements and also where there
:08:15. > :08:15.are problems, intervention happens far faster with academies.
:08:16. > :08:18.Later, Labour used a debate to urge the Government to put
:08:19. > :08:25.The Government's plan has been met with such concern even by the very
:08:26. > :08:30.school leaders they claim to be supporting because it is a bad
:08:31. > :08:33.policy with no evidence base. It is yet another policy from this
:08:34. > :08:37.Government that obsesses with school structures instead of standards.
:08:38. > :08:42.What's more, given the very real pressure being faced by schools
:08:43. > :08:46.today, huge teacher shortages, real terms cuts to school budgets for the
:08:47. > :08:52.first time in 20 years, major overhauls to curriculum is and
:08:53. > :08:57.exams, the idea that headteachers should be spending time, money and
:08:58. > :09:00.energy on a ?1.3 billion top-down reorganisation of our school system
:09:01. > :09:06.is at best a distraction and at worst will have a very damaging
:09:07. > :09:10.impact on the School standards. The academies programme takes our core
:09:11. > :09:13.belief that public services should be run by front-line professionals,
:09:14. > :09:22.heads and teachers and governments running our schools. Evidence shows
:09:23. > :09:26.autonomous schools leads to improvements and must be in place.
:09:27. > :09:30.Test scores are higher when schools manage their own budgets and recruit
:09:31. > :09:35.their own teachers. Schools don't have too follow a single way of
:09:36. > :09:42.doing things. Each can choose a different way that works. A third of
:09:43. > :09:47.primary schools will be academies by 2020 even if we didn't do anything
:09:48. > :09:50.else which as my honourable friend said, make it increasingly difficult
:09:51. > :09:51.for local authorities to manage an expensive bureaucracy with fewer and
:09:52. > :09:52.fewer schools. And while we're on the subject
:09:53. > :09:54.of youngsters, there were calls in the House of Lords
:09:55. > :09:57.for the Government to introduce a standard system of concessionary
:09:58. > :09:59.fares for young people travelling The plea came from a Liberal
:10:00. > :10:10.Democrat former teacher. Young people are twice as likely as
:10:11. > :10:18.the rest of us to rely on buses. They use them to access education
:10:19. > :10:21.and work. Some councils and bus companies to provide concessions but
:10:22. > :10:29.the situation is very patchy. Given the concessions to all the people
:10:30. > :10:32.that have proven very popular, isn't it time we played fair by young
:10:33. > :10:38.people by giving them a similar scheme? She is quite great to raise
:10:39. > :10:42.the issue of young people's travel and I appreciate the challenges that
:10:43. > :10:49.she has also put into context. If we look across England and 89 travel
:10:50. > :10:53.concessionary programmes outside of London and about 22 currently
:10:54. > :10:57.practised young people's schemes and I do think we look to ensure there
:10:58. > :11:00.is good practice but at the moment, there are no provisions being made
:11:01. > :11:06.for statutory provision across the country. The select committee on
:11:07. > :11:10.social mobility, which I had the privilege to chair, reported last
:11:11. > :11:14.week on the transition from school to work. Evidence we took from
:11:15. > :11:20.organisations including Barnardos was that young people who live in
:11:21. > :11:23.rural areas who would like to go to college or take up apprenticeships
:11:24. > :11:27.are prevented from doing so because of the cost of transport. Surely
:11:28. > :11:32.young people like that, if the Government is truly honest in its
:11:33. > :11:35.apprenticeship level levy should be given the opportunity to get to
:11:36. > :11:44.training or study with something of concessionary scheme. I will review
:11:45. > :11:47.the Lady's full report which I have not yet done so in terms of
:11:48. > :11:51.recommendations and perhaps we can meet in that regard after I had done
:11:52. > :11:58.so but she is quite great and I agree with that we do to ensure
:11:59. > :12:01.concessionary schemes across the country that provide access to those
:12:02. > :12:04.that require it but we do need to emphasise that local authorities do
:12:05. > :12:10.carry responsibilities in this regard. Would it not be sensible to
:12:11. > :12:15.look at the whole pre-bus scheme again and try to make some
:12:16. > :12:19.distinction between those who can actually afford a full fare and
:12:20. > :12:27.people like children who very often can't? I think the issue of
:12:28. > :12:31.affordability is an important one to recognise and of course the
:12:32. > :12:35.definition is one area which sometimes causes confusion because
:12:36. > :12:37.there are different definitions in different concessionary schemes
:12:38. > :12:42.about what constitutes a young person and I will take on board what
:12:43. > :12:45.my honourable friend said but anecdotally across Europe, I was in
:12:46. > :12:49.Spain recently will need to be confronted by a Spanish inspector
:12:50. > :12:52.who spoke no English. I speak very little Spanish, to be told that my
:12:53. > :12:58.four-year-old also required to pay an adult fare so I think we need to
:12:59. > :12:58.look at the schemes in a wider context.
:12:59. > :13:10.You're watching Wednesday in Parliament with me, Alicia McCarthy
:13:11. > :13:16.The green MP Caroline Lucas has pleaded for funds to be made
:13:17. > :13:20.available for community led flood prevention schemes. Five months have
:13:21. > :13:25.passed since storm Desmond and storm either brought havoc to large parts
:13:26. > :13:30.of northern Britain. 16,000 houses were flooded in Cumbria and
:13:31. > :13:34.Yorkshire alone. The North Yorkshire town of Pickering avoided any
:13:35. > :13:38.serious flooding, partly as a result of the resident initiative that
:13:39. > :13:41.became known as working with nature. The area was protected by the
:13:42. > :13:45.planting of the woodland and the building of a set of leaky dams made
:13:46. > :13:51.up of logs to slow down heavy flows of rainwater. Caroline Lucas
:13:52. > :13:56.referred to the scheme at the Commons committee. How do we get
:13:57. > :13:59.more funds going into it? There are lots of good examples like Pickering
:14:00. > :14:05.and yet what we're hearing from some of the giving as evidence is in
:14:06. > :14:13.terms of accessing the funding for those kinds of measures, the King --
:14:14. > :14:16.the people in my constituency wanted for Brighton, the point being that
:14:17. > :14:20.they are trying to access funds they are finding it really difficult,
:14:21. > :14:23.they find the kind of criteria they have to fulfil in order to access
:14:24. > :14:28.funds are not ones that are easily reached. They probably need to look
:14:29. > :14:33.at individual cases but Pickering was funded by us, a government
:14:34. > :14:43.funded project, money from the government. But to replicate that,
:14:44. > :14:47.these good -- what are the sources? You can look at using countryside
:14:48. > :14:52.stewardship scheme money, you can look at the Environment Agency money
:14:53. > :14:55.and save money from the capital programme. The fundamental challenge
:14:56. > :15:03.at the moment and this is true even of Pickering is specifying exactly
:15:04. > :15:06.what the consequences or benefits are of these particular schemes.
:15:07. > :15:10.That is why the Cumbria Flood partnership and the work they are
:15:11. > :15:15.doing is so central. We basically have two kinds of models we use for
:15:16. > :15:19.cost benefit analysis around flooding. One of them is about
:15:20. > :15:26.football rates and the second is river levels. In constructing your
:15:27. > :15:31.full rate model for specified catchments, so let's take a
:15:32. > :15:34.catchment about that big, you have two feed into that model various
:15:35. > :15:42.kinds of data so you feed in projected rainfall,... The MPs at
:15:43. > :15:46.the minister's answer was going on too long. You must look at ground
:15:47. > :15:51.water... Maybe it is really hot in this room, but I do not understand
:15:52. > :15:55.if the key question I am trying to ask which has been raised by many
:15:56. > :16:00.witnesses is that they want more funding, their perception is they
:16:01. > :16:02.cannot get funding for natural flood management, I don't understand if
:16:03. > :16:06.your answer is telling me that this is because we need more information
:16:07. > :16:13.about the different situations before funds can be leased, your
:16:14. > :16:17.answer is not relevant to my question. - Rory is try to tell you
:16:18. > :16:20.something very deep and it is worth going into later but let me answer
:16:21. > :16:24.the question, you're presupposing something that is leading to you
:16:25. > :16:27.asking a question that cannot be added as the wrong question. We are
:16:28. > :16:31.not going to be dealing with catchments on the basis of people
:16:32. > :16:35.coming up with their own schemes and applying for money. It is not a
:16:36. > :16:40.question of whether some local group has an idea comes along for a dot of
:16:41. > :16:44.money, this is very contributed interactive stuff so what you have
:16:45. > :16:47.to do is build up a picture of the whole catchment, work out what the
:16:48. > :16:52.sensible thing to do is, and that is the work of some months or years and
:16:53. > :16:58.then find the whole... I am not talking about scientists, I am
:16:59. > :17:01.talking about... We will be funding, any particular site is that one
:17:02. > :17:08.particular point cannot solve this... I am not suggesting that,
:17:09. > :17:10.Pickering wasn't bad. If the whole catchment is being modelled on the
:17:11. > :17:17.whole catchment has a complete plan what I'm telling you is we will then
:17:18. > :17:19.find that plan, fully. The session turned to a report highlighting
:17:20. > :17:27.serious flood risk to the London Underground. The reports this week
:17:28. > :17:30.said that 20% of London's tube stations are at risk of flooding,
:17:31. > :17:37.including London Bridge and Waterloo. The nation has invested
:17:38. > :17:42.very heavily over the past many years in flood defences in London,
:17:43. > :17:47.London is significantly better protected than any other course city
:17:48. > :17:50.at almost any other key city, in fact the four times better
:17:51. > :17:55.protected. We are currently looking at the other course cities before we
:17:56. > :17:59.get to London to bring them up to the level of London, that is another
:18:00. > :18:05.strength of the review. It will not be complete this year. We will be
:18:06. > :18:11.working on it. Back now to the main Commons chamber where MPs returned
:18:12. > :18:15.to the subject of tax. Following the lead of the Panama papers, Labour
:18:16. > :18:21.put forward the topic for debate, wanting the government in an -- to
:18:22. > :18:24.implement a policy of tax transparency. One Labour backbencher
:18:25. > :18:28.talked about why many people felt the current system is unfair. The
:18:29. > :18:31.last majority of people in this country play by the same rules and
:18:32. > :18:37.have little choice about the contribution they make to the public
:18:38. > :18:41.purse. It is not about envy or anger at 12 whether it be terrible
:18:42. > :18:46.inherited, but it is about the fact that those at the top of the income
:18:47. > :18:50.scale seem to play by an entirely different set of rules and it
:18:51. > :18:55.understandably makes people angry, and the government must take genuine
:18:56. > :19:00.steps to level the playing field and to regain the public trust. We do
:19:01. > :19:03.not measure success in terms of wealth but neither should be
:19:04. > :19:06.penalised those who have done well. It will be a sorry day of this
:19:07. > :19:08.country becomes a place where if you have done well and set up a
:19:09. > :19:13.successful business and are contributing to your local economy,
:19:14. > :19:19.you are employing people, that you should be penalised and not just
:19:20. > :19:22.penalised but be frowned upon. It is right that parents want to help the
:19:23. > :19:28.kids, every parent wants to do that, and in principle if your dad or
:19:29. > :19:31.mother has experience you would expect them to use their knowledge
:19:32. > :19:35.on behalf of their kids, that implies -- that applies to
:19:36. > :19:41.stockbrokers as much as stockmen, bakers and bankers. What is the real
:19:42. > :19:46.problem is that has as the range of opportunities that are only open to
:19:47. > :19:49.the rich and wealthy. This is what proves we simply aren't all in this
:19:50. > :19:56.together. Whichever way this is dressed up, what is clear is that
:19:57. > :19:59.those in the know have not just the opportunity or good fortune to make
:20:00. > :20:03.money, it is also clear that when they get that money that are many
:20:04. > :20:08.more avenues open to them to keep their hands on that money. Yes we
:20:09. > :20:13.need strong measures against tax avoidance, we need the public to
:20:14. > :20:19.feel we are all in this together and altering our fair share. On the
:20:20. > :20:22.point of everyone paying their way does he welcomed the fact that it is
:20:23. > :20:28.under this government that the top 1% of earners is only paying 28% of
:20:29. > :20:34.tax, which is a far higher percentage than the Labour
:20:35. > :20:42.government? This point was made earlier by me. But it is worth
:20:43. > :20:49.repeating. And deleted my friend mentioned it. It is such a strong
:20:50. > :20:54.point. At this point about the rich -- the writ is 1% paying the largest
:20:55. > :20:59.rid of tax has been battered out today, what it is a sign of is the
:21:00. > :21:07.gross inequality in the country and that is something that needs to be
:21:08. > :21:12.addressed. The rich pay more tax! And SNP MP called for cross-party
:21:13. > :21:16.action. Ignore all those people who operate under a cloud of anonymity
:21:17. > :21:19.to tell as we would not understand that it is too difficult, that's
:21:20. > :21:23.just allows them to keep doing what they have gotten no limit to this
:21:24. > :21:28.point because failure to do so will keep on feeding the cancer this,
:21:29. > :21:32.cancer this way in which our politics is going on and that will
:21:33. > :21:38.be to the detriment of all of us. Stuart MacDonald. A system of MPs
:21:39. > :21:42.trying to get their bills through Parliament is a disgrace according
:21:43. > :21:45.to a former deputy speaker of the Commons, at the start of every
:21:46. > :21:48.session a handful of backbenchers get the chance to bring in what is
:21:49. > :21:54.known as a private members bill. They debated on 15 sitting Fridays
:21:55. > :21:58.but frequently fall foul of being talked out by other MPs are
:21:59. > :22:02.government ministers. There have been some high profile recent
:22:03. > :22:06.examples, including a bill to exempt carers from hospital parking
:22:07. > :22:10.charges. The Commons procedure committee is currently looking at
:22:11. > :22:16.the issue. Opening a debate in Westminster Hall, one MP argued the
:22:17. > :22:19.time of company change. The system is broken, the procedure for
:22:20. > :22:23.debating and voting on private members bills is dishonest and
:22:24. > :22:29.misleading, it is expensive and frustrating waste of time. I believe
:22:30. > :22:33.that what happens on Fridays in this place not only brings Parliament
:22:34. > :22:40.into disrepute but feed into the cynicism and the increasing numbers
:22:41. > :22:44.of people feel about politics and politicians, it does us no good
:22:45. > :22:48.service. I absolutely agree with the honourable member about the
:22:49. > :22:51.absurdities of Fridays, it doesn't do any good for the image of
:22:52. > :22:57.parliament, it is wearisome even for those who are here and I think I can
:22:58. > :23:01.make the claim from what it is worth that in all other members of this
:23:02. > :23:10.house have set that resided over as many Friday the and it really is a
:23:11. > :23:14.disgrace. And other concerns disagreed. We have transferred
:23:15. > :23:17.sitting Fridays, we are sent here in Westminster to represent their
:23:18. > :23:23.constituents and we have turned it into constituency days. If these
:23:24. > :23:29.issues are important then we should be able to sit constituents, we will
:23:30. > :23:33.not be at the opening of the fate of the school, because I am discharging
:23:34. > :23:38.my duties as a member of Parliament in sitting Friday of which we only
:23:39. > :23:42.ever actually have 13 in one year. I think that there are things about
:23:43. > :23:46.timetabling it on a different state, because for all of us who live out
:23:47. > :23:50.with the commutable distance, Friday is our time in the constituency. We
:23:51. > :23:55.can still use Giuliani Monday morning before coming to the house,
:23:56. > :23:59.we can attend meetings on evenings and therefore it is a big deal and
:24:00. > :24:06.the fact that when a member gives up the time and attendance it is such a
:24:07. > :24:11.farce, that does not result in a vote, may not even lead to a debate,
:24:12. > :24:15.means that in actual fact most member - attend. One Labour member
:24:16. > :24:20.told MPs about the furious reaction when her bill to exempt carers from
:24:21. > :24:24.hospital parking charges was talked out. I had hundreds of people
:24:25. > :24:29.contact me, they could not believe it. He did not understand the
:24:30. > :24:32.system. How could it be that the great British democratic system
:24:33. > :24:38.could behave in this fashion? Sometimes week after week. Points
:24:39. > :24:42.were made about, if a Private members Bill is brought and it is
:24:43. > :24:47.against the will of the government then it cannot hope to succeed, I
:24:48. > :24:51.accept that, we live in a democracy. But should not we have the
:24:52. > :24:56.opportunity fully democratic vote? Because what is happening is
:24:57. > :24:59.dishonest. The minister argued that private members bills could
:25:00. > :25:04.encourage change even if they did not become law. Particularly the
:25:05. > :25:08.ones that have been successful at either change the lead, government
:25:09. > :25:13.policy or maybe modest change to the law, something people agree with. In
:25:14. > :25:16.this particular session six of such bills have made it through the House
:25:17. > :25:21.of Commons in which they have received Royal assent are in the
:25:22. > :25:27.Lawrence. It is important to say that those the government does not
:25:28. > :25:31.and should not have the monopoly on legislation it does have the
:25:32. > :25:40.mandate. Private members Bill to not necessarily have the mandate that
:25:41. > :25:45.has been elected by the country. That is it for now. Join me at the
:25:46. > :25:49.same time tomorrow when among other things there is a debate about
:25:50. > :26:00.reducing the amount of plastic in our seas. Until then, goodbye.