:00:17. > :00:24.Hello and welcome to Web and stay in Parliament, our look at the best of
:00:25. > :00:30.the day. On this programme, learning lessons from tragedy, the Home
:00:31. > :00:32.Secretary in sombre mood following the Hillsborough inquest verdicts.
:00:33. > :00:39.No one should have to fight decade after decade in search of the truth.
:00:40. > :00:45.Condemnation of the government 's policy on child refugees. It is not
:00:46. > :00:51.insulting other European countries to offer to help, they want us to
:00:52. > :00:58.help. Could and should electronic voting be introduced and trades
:00:59. > :01:04.unions ballot there are members? It has been used on television. Theresa
:01:05. > :01:08.May has praised the relatives of the victims of the Hillsborough disaster
:01:09. > :01:13.for their extraordinary dignity and determination. It is almost exactly
:01:14. > :01:17.27 years since the tragedy at the Sheffield football ground. 96
:01:18. > :01:23.Liverpool supporters died in a crash at the start of an FA Cup semifinal
:01:24. > :01:27.tie. Much of the blame at the time was laid on the behaviour of the
:01:28. > :01:31.Liverpool supporters but the report of an independent panel four years
:01:32. > :01:36.ago revealed that safety failures at the ground and serious mistakes by
:01:37. > :01:40.the police as well as details of a police cover-up after the event.
:01:41. > :01:45.This week following an inquest that lasted two years, the jury found
:01:46. > :01:50.that 96 victims had been unlawfully killed and listed a long catalogue
:01:51. > :01:54.of failings by the police and Ambulance Services. In the Commons,
:01:55. > :01:57.the Home Secretary said the outcome of the inquest was of national
:01:58. > :02:02.significance. I have met members of the Hillsborough families on a
:02:03. > :02:07.number of occasions. In their search for truth and justice I have never
:02:08. > :02:12.failed to be struck by their extraordinary dignity and
:02:13. > :02:15.determination. I do not think it is possible for any of us to truly
:02:16. > :02:21.understand what they have been through. Not only in losing their
:02:22. > :02:27.loved ones in such horrific circumstances that day, but to hear
:02:28. > :02:32.finding after finding over 27 years, telling them something that they
:02:33. > :02:37.believed to be fundamentally untrue. They have quite simply never given
:02:38. > :02:41.up. The jury 's determination that those who died were unlawfully
:02:42. > :02:48.killed is of great public importance. It overturns in the
:02:49. > :02:52.starkest way possible, the verdict of accidental death returned at the
:02:53. > :02:57.original inquests. The jury 's findings do not of course an amount
:02:58. > :03:02.to a finding of criminal liability and no one should impute criminal
:03:03. > :03:06.liability to anyone while the investigations are still pending.
:03:07. > :03:10.The conclusion of the inquest brings to an end an important step since
:03:11. > :03:14.the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel 's report, thanks
:03:15. > :03:18.to that report, and now the determinations of the inquest, we
:03:19. > :03:22.know the truth of what happened on that day at Hillsborough. Naturally
:03:23. > :03:27.the families will want to reflect on the historic outcome yesterday which
:03:28. > :03:31.is of national significance. I am also clear that this raises
:03:32. > :03:36.significant issues for the way the state and its agencies deal with
:03:37. > :03:39.disasters. Once the formal investigations are concluded, we
:03:40. > :03:43.should reflect and active necessary so that we can better respond to
:03:44. > :03:47.disasters and ensure that the suffering of family since taken into
:03:48. > :03:50.account. No one should have to injure what the families and
:03:51. > :03:54.survivors have been through. No one should have to suffer the loss of
:03:55. > :03:59.their loved ones in such appalling circumstances and no one should have
:04:00. > :04:06.to fight year after year, decade after decade in search of the truth.
:04:07. > :04:11.I hope that for the families and survivors who have been through such
:04:12. > :04:15.difficult times the determination yesterday will bring them closer
:04:16. > :04:21.towards the peace they have been so long denied. I commend this
:04:22. > :04:27.statement to the house. Millions of pounds of public money was spent
:04:28. > :04:30.retelling discredited lies against Liverpool supporters, lawyers for
:04:31. > :04:34.retired officers through disgusting slurs around, goes for the force
:04:35. > :04:38.today try to establish that others were responsible for the opening of
:04:39. > :04:43.the gate. If the police had chosen to maintain the apology, this
:04:44. > :04:53.inquest would have been much shorter but they did not and they put the
:04:54. > :04:56.families through hell once again. It pains me to say it, but the NHS
:04:57. > :04:58.through the Yorkshire Ambulance Service was guilty of the same.
:04:59. > :05:06.Despite the inquest being adverse Oriole, the verdict was unequivocal.
:05:07. > :05:10.Liverpool supporters were totally absolved of any blame and did not
:05:11. > :05:20.contribute to the disaster in anyway. The initial coroner said, in
:05:21. > :05:25.forced alcohol testing on all of the victims of this unlawful disaster
:05:26. > :05:29.including the children, including a ten-year-old boy. That is a disgrace
:05:30. > :05:34.and we want to know but that will never happen to a single victim
:05:35. > :05:38.again. In the eyes of the establishment, football fans were
:05:39. > :05:42.less than human and as soon as the police and the establishment see
:05:43. > :05:47.groups of people, not as individuals but as less than human, then we
:05:48. > :05:53.enter into dangerous circumstances. Before then, the miners were less
:05:54. > :05:57.than human and we may look at how we treat disabled people, asylum
:05:58. > :06:03.seekers or the victims of child sex abuse and wonder if we think that as
:06:04. > :06:08.well. Having served as a special constable I recognise the
:06:09. > :06:12.institutional defensiveness that was mentioned yesterday and I fear it is
:06:13. > :06:17.not a problem that is unique in South Yorkshire. Will the Home
:06:18. > :06:22.Secretary as part of a review looked at ending the practice of officers
:06:23. > :06:27.confirming together when recording statements. The lesson that the
:06:28. > :06:32.house needs to take away is that we have to subject ourselves and our
:06:33. > :06:37.institutions to self examination and to maintain it, if we are to insure
:06:38. > :06:42.for the future that we do not have a repetition of this frankly
:06:43. > :06:48.deplorable episode. I would like to agree with their right honourable
:06:49. > :06:53.member that this must rank alongside a bloody Sunday as one of the most
:06:54. > :06:58.disgraceful establishment cover-ups of our time. The ruling confirms
:06:59. > :07:07.that some police officers have behaved abominably and I note what
:07:08. > :07:12.the Shadow Home Secretary said about there being the same force who
:07:13. > :07:18.repressed the miners strike. We knew the truth, it seems to be the legal
:07:19. > :07:23.system in this country that has been unable to get to the truth and
:07:24. > :07:28.accept the truth. For 27 years it has failed them at every turn. I
:07:29. > :07:33.think the strength of the families makes me proud to be a Scouser.
:07:34. > :07:39.There is a lot of talk about justice, I do not think it is
:07:40. > :07:45.justice that has taken 27 years, it is not justice that the city and the
:07:46. > :07:49.fans and the families were kicked when they were on their knees, it is
:07:50. > :07:54.not justice that there was a cover-up. The response of MPs to be
:07:55. > :07:58.outcome of the inquest into the Hillsborough deaths. The laws also
:07:59. > :08:02.debated the verdict and there were calls for an early decision to be
:08:03. > :08:09.made on whether criminal proceedings should be started. How could it have
:08:10. > :08:17.taken 27 years for the truth to emerge? The South Yorkshire Police
:08:18. > :08:21.force put protecting themselves above care for the fans, the
:08:22. > :08:27.families and the truth. They had relationships with the media which
:08:28. > :08:36.made it possible for them falsely to smear the families and the fans. The
:08:37. > :08:40.media in all too many cases colluded with the police in perpetrating
:08:41. > :08:47.those smears. Would it not be a fitting tribute if we were able to
:08:48. > :08:51.move forward with sensitivity and rationality in ensuring that the
:08:52. > :08:57.people of Merseyside received the justice and truth that they have
:08:58. > :09:01.sought, that the people of south Yorkshire do not themselves find
:09:02. > :09:06.themselves penalised financially or in terms of policing because of what
:09:07. > :09:12.happened 27 years ago. On this day of all days, the front page of the
:09:13. > :09:19.Sun newspaper speaks volumes for the real levels of remorse shown by the
:09:20. > :09:23.paper. There will be no complete justice until those responsible for
:09:24. > :09:28.the events of Hillsborough, for the monstrous cover-up, for the lies and
:09:29. > :09:37.the years of organised deceit are properly called to account. Thanks
:09:38. > :09:43.to many people, the families of the 96 and nearly 700 injured have never
:09:44. > :09:46.walked alone. May I say that the moral culpability of those who
:09:47. > :09:51.participated in the cover-up is particularly grave and will he do
:09:52. > :09:55.all he can to encourage authorities to come to an early conclusion as to
:09:56. > :10:00.whether criminal proceedings should follow? The reaction of the loss to
:10:01. > :10:05.the Hillsborough disaster. Putting the country to shame, the damning
:10:06. > :10:10.description by the former Home Secretary of the government 's
:10:11. > :10:15.policy on child refugees. On Monday MPs rejected the attempt by a Labour
:10:16. > :10:20.peer to force ministers to allow into the UK 3000 unaccompanied child
:10:21. > :10:24.refugees from Europe, despite rejection, appears on Tuesday dug in
:10:25. > :10:30.their heels and voted in favour of the plan. The issue of unaccompanied
:10:31. > :10:34.children surfaced at Prime Minister's Questions, first the
:10:35. > :10:39.leader at Westminster last with David Cameron. Europe all estimates
:10:40. > :10:49.that 10,000 unaccompanied children in Europe have disappeared. This is
:10:50. > :10:52.a question about the safety of vulnerable children. The Prime
:10:53. > :10:56.Minister thinks it is not the responsibility of the United Kingdom
:10:57. > :11:03.to help unaccompanied children in Europe. I ask him, who has the moral
:11:04. > :11:09.responsibility to feed them, clothe them, educate them and give them
:11:10. > :11:14.refuge if not us and everyone in Europe? He asked the question, who
:11:15. > :11:18.is responsible for refugees but the person who years responsible is the
:11:19. > :11:23.country in which they are in. I want Britain to play our part but you
:11:24. > :11:27.have to ask, do we do better by taking a child from a refugee camp
:11:28. > :11:32.or taking a child from the Lebanon or from Jordan than we do taking a
:11:33. > :11:46.child from France or Italy or Germany? As I said to compare
:11:47. > :11:49.this to the 1930s is to insult those countries who are our neighbours.
:11:50. > :11:52.The Prime Minister has suggested that child refugees alone in Europe
:11:53. > :11:54.are safe. There are children's homes fill in Italy and Greece and over
:11:55. > :12:00.1000 children will sleep rough in Greece tonight, how are they save?
:12:01. > :12:06.10,000 children have disappeared in Europe, how are they save? The
:12:07. > :12:11.agencies say that children are being abused subject to prostitution and
:12:12. > :12:16.rape, it is not insulting other European countries to offer to help,
:12:17. > :12:21.they want us to help, so will he reconsider his position on the
:12:22. > :12:26.amendment before it comes back to the vote and stop with his attitude
:12:27. > :12:34.to loan child refugees putting this house and country to shame? She asks
:12:35. > :12:39.if we are helping other European countries and we are, not least with
:12:40. > :12:45.the ?10 million we recently announced. I would say the crucial
:12:46. > :12:50.point is this, how do we in Britain best help child refugees? We think
:12:51. > :12:54.we help them by taking them from camps and the Lebanon and Jordan,
:12:55. > :12:59.taking them from a different country, that is what we are doing
:13:00. > :13:04.and we have a proud record and nothing to be ashamed of. The issue
:13:05. > :13:10.that Jeremy Corbyn focused on was the government 's plan to make every
:13:11. > :13:13.maintained school in England and academy and independent of local
:13:14. > :13:17.authority control. The proposal is known to be concerning some Tory
:13:18. > :13:21.backbenchers and the Prime Minister confirmed that becoming Queen 's
:13:22. > :13:26.speech will contain the bill that makes the change. First the Labour
:13:27. > :13:31.leader reminded David Cameron of the exchanges last week on academies.
:13:32. > :13:35.Last week the Prime Minister told the house that he would put rocket
:13:36. > :13:42.boosters on his forced academies Asian proposals. This weekend in the
:13:43. > :13:46.light of widespread unease, it seems the wheels are falling off the
:13:47. > :14:01.rocket boosters and the government is considering a U-turn.
:14:02. > :14:11.to the issue of academies, I haven't yet met a rocket booster with wheels
:14:12. > :14:15.on it. Rocket science isn't my subject and apparently it is not
:14:16. > :14:21.hers. Academies are raising standards in our schools and I want
:14:22. > :14:27.to see a system where it is heads and teachers running schools. Not
:14:28. > :14:31.bureaucrats. Why is this costly reorganisation necessary for schools
:14:32. > :14:36.that are already good or outstanding? Why is forcing them on
:14:37. > :14:41.them. There are lots of ways they can become academies. They can
:14:42. > :14:45.convert be sponsored or work with other schools in the area. They can
:14:46. > :14:49.look at working with the local authority. Those schools that want
:14:50. > :14:55.to go on using local authority services are free to do so.
:14:56. > :15:00.Academies are great. Academies for all is a good policy. What we are
:15:01. > :15:07.seeing from Labour is they are moving in favour of academies
:15:08. > :15:11.schools. Does he say that academies or not? He might care to listen to
:15:12. > :15:17.Councillor Carter, who says the change will lead to a poorer
:15:18. > :15:22.education system. So why is he pushing it through with so much
:15:23. > :15:27.opposition, concern of such a waste of money, when we should be
:15:28. > :15:28.investing in teachers and schools, not top-down reorganisation?
:15:29. > :15:30.We are very clear on this side of the house.
:15:31. > :15:32.We back aspiration, we back opportunity,
:15:33. > :15:37.It is Labour that want to hold back opportunity
:15:38. > :15:42.Mr Speaker, there seems to be a pattern
:15:43. > :15:51.developing here. His...
:15:52. > :15:55.He has a Health Secretary that is imposing a contract
:15:56. > :15:57.on junior doctors, against the wishes of patients
:15:58. > :16:06.and the public and the rest of the medical profession.
:16:07. > :16:08.He has an Education Secretary imposing yet another Tory top-down
:16:09. > :16:12.When will his government show some respect and listen to public,
:16:13. > :16:24.And, indeed, professionals who have given their lives to public service
:16:25. > :16:35.and education and health and change his ways,
:16:36. > :16:37.listen to them and trust other people to run services,
:16:38. > :16:38.rather than imposing things from above?
:16:39. > :16:40.I tell him the pattern that is developing.
:16:41. > :16:44.We can see 1.9 million more people being treated in our health service.
:16:45. > :16:47.We can see 1.3 million more children in good or outstanding schools.
:16:48. > :16:52.That is the pattern that is developing.
:16:53. > :16:55.A strong economy, investing into our public services.
:16:56. > :16:57.The other pattern that I have noticed, standing at this
:16:58. > :17:00.dispatch box, as I am on my fifth Labour leader and,
:17:01. > :17:09.if he carries on like this, I will soon be on my sixth.
:17:10. > :17:18.And later, David Cameron was calling on Labour to suspend one of its MPs,
:17:19. > :17:23.Naz shaft. She had written that Israel should be moved to America. A
:17:24. > :17:35.Conservative backbencher raised that the incident. -- the incident.
:17:36. > :17:37.Hatred and ignorance lie at the heart of anti-Semitism.
:17:38. > :17:39.And, when those in public life expressed such views,
:17:40. > :17:41.they denigrate not only themselves, but also the institutions
:17:42. > :17:45.Will my right honourable friend please reassure this house
:17:46. > :17:47.of his commitment to fighting this vicious form of prejudice?
:17:48. > :17:51.Anti-Semitism is, effectively, racism and we should
:17:52. > :17:53.call it out and fight it where ever we see it.
:17:54. > :17:56.And the fact that, frankly, we've got a Labour member of Parliament,
:17:57. > :17:58.with the Labour whip, who made remarks about
:17:59. > :18:00.the transportation of people from Israel to America and talked
:18:01. > :18:03.about a solution and is still in receipt of the Labour whip
:18:04. > :18:07.Let we just tell you what the Shadow Chancellor
:18:08. > :18:11."If people express these views, full stop, they are out.
:18:12. > :18:13."People might be able to reform their views
:18:14. > :18:17."On this, I cannot see it, I am not having it.
:18:18. > :18:19."People might say, I've changed my views.
:18:20. > :18:20."Well, do something in another organisation".
:18:21. > :18:24.Well, frankly, there will be too many hours in the day before that
:18:25. > :18:28.After PMQs, the MP made this apology.
:18:29. > :18:34.I hope you will allow me to say that I fully acknowledge that I have made
:18:35. > :18:38.mistakes and I wholeheartedly apologise to this house
:18:39. > :18:44.for the words I used before I became a member.
:18:45. > :18:47.I accept and understand the words I used caused upset and hurt
:18:48. > :18:49.to the Jewish community and I deeply regret that.
:18:50. > :18:54.As an MP, I will do everything in my power to build relations
:18:55. > :18:56.between Muslims, Jews and people of different faiths.
:18:57. > :19:00.And I hope, I sincerely hope, that this house will accept
:19:01. > :19:19.And, later in the day, Naz Shah was suspended
:19:20. > :19:22.Meanwhile, David Cameron seemed grateful for help from Labour
:19:23. > :19:25.With the United Kingdom facing our most momentous decision
:19:26. > :19:28.for a generation in eight weeks' time, does the Prime Minister think
:19:29. > :19:32.it makes no sense for us to listen to all of our closest friends
:19:33. > :19:34.and allies around the world, or to a combination of French
:19:35. > :19:36.fascists, Nigel Farage and Vladimir Putin?
:19:37. > :19:38.I'm glad he takes the English pronunciation of Farage,
:19:39. > :19:40.rather than the rather poncy foreign-sounding one
:19:41. > :19:49.I think that is a thoroughly good thing.
:19:50. > :19:52.Honestly, I think we should listen to our friends and allies.
:19:53. > :19:55.And, as I look around the world, it's hard to find the leader
:19:56. > :19:58.of a country that wishes us well that want us to do anything,
:19:59. > :20:06.other than stay inside a reformed European Union.
:20:07. > :20:10.The Prime Minister and his government did next to nothing
:20:11. > :20:14.It was left to the Scottish Government to do that.
:20:15. > :20:17.Now, the UK Government is breaking the promises made by both Tories
:20:18. > :20:18.and Labour to protect the Scottish shipbuilding industry.
:20:19. > :20:21.Why does the Prime Minister think that Scottish jobs
:20:22. > :20:32.Frankly, the Scottish Government and the UK Government
:20:33. > :20:38.And one of the things we should work together on is procurement.
:20:39. > :20:40.And it is worth asking, how much Scottish steel
:20:41. > :20:48.What a contrast with the warships that we are building.
:20:49. > :20:51.That, of course, we would not be building, if we had had
:20:52. > :21:00.So we back the steel industry with actions, as well as words.
:21:01. > :21:03.You are watching our round-up of today in the Commons and the Lords.
:21:04. > :21:07.Are there too many groups campaigning for
:21:08. > :21:19.MPs have approved a proposal for a review to be carried out
:21:20. > :21:21.into the suitability of electronic voting when trade union ballots
:21:22. > :21:24.Earlier this year, the Government was defeated in the Lords
:21:25. > :21:27.on its Trade Union Bill, when peers voted in favour
:21:28. > :21:33.of allowing a review to be made of online voting,
:21:34. > :21:36.When it came to the Commons, ministers offered
:21:37. > :21:40.I can see merit in exploring the issues further.
:21:41. > :21:42.And, of course, the important difference is that this review
:21:43. > :21:44.will specifically be in the context of electronic balloting
:21:45. > :21:53.So, in accepting there should be this review,
:21:54. > :21:56.we except the spirit of the clause on electronic balloting.
:21:57. > :21:58.In fact, we accept virtually the entirety of the amendment
:21:59. > :22:05.made by the noble Lords on electronic balloting.
:22:06. > :22:07.It is pointless having a review on the technology needed,
:22:08. > :22:08.because the technology needed already exists.
:22:09. > :22:11.It has already been said that the Conservative Party have
:22:12. > :22:14.as a previous programme, I can tell you it already exists.
:22:15. > :22:17.It is already secured and, not only has it been used
:22:18. > :22:18.in various businesses or independent organisations,
:22:19. > :22:29.like the Conservative Party, but it has been used in X factor
:22:30. > :22:34.So I can tell the minister, you do not need to do a report.
:22:35. > :22:42.You just need to move onto the next stage.
:22:43. > :22:46.Has my right honourable friend knows, I am in favour
:22:47. > :22:50.I think the route he is taking the correct one, but I think
:22:51. > :22:53.there is one real fear out there, which I think he can
:22:54. > :22:57.And that is that this approach is designed simply to delay
:22:58. > :23:01.Can he tell the house, in terms, that when the minister
:23:02. > :23:03.receives the report, he or she will deal with it
:23:04. > :23:07.And if the review suggests that it is safe to embrace
:23:08. > :23:09.e-balloting, then we will be able to proceed.
:23:10. > :23:13.The two sides of the argument are known as Remain and Leave.
:23:14. > :23:15.But on the Leave side, there have been different groups campaigning,
:23:16. > :23:19.So, have these various groups caused internal
:23:20. > :23:23.In fact, the founder of Leave.EU says it is healthy to have
:23:24. > :23:27.He gave a Commons committee his view of the process to designate
:23:28. > :23:30.Vote Leave as the official campaign organisation for a British exit.
:23:31. > :23:37.Or Brexit as it is sometimes called, from the EU.
:23:38. > :23:39.A couple of the prominent Vote Leave supporters
:23:40. > :23:41.actually communicated, via the Internet, they won
:23:42. > :23:43.the designation two days before the commission were actually due
:23:44. > :23:52.And I think one of the people that was a very senior member of it
:23:53. > :23:58."Congratulations, Vote Leave. You have won the designation."
:23:59. > :24:02.Sorry, a very senior member of... Vote Leave, yes.
:24:03. > :24:04.Not a senior member of the Electoral Commission?
:24:05. > :24:16.We then wrote to the Electoral Commission via e-mail,
:24:17. > :24:20.You are meant to be announcing it this Thursday.
:24:21. > :24:22.They then brought forward their decision by a day,
:24:23. > :24:24.because they realise the news was out there.
:24:25. > :24:27.And it was clear that the Electoral Commission had either communicated
:24:28. > :24:29.the result prematurely to Vote Leave, or otherwise.
:24:30. > :24:34.It doesn't give much faith and confidence when you've got
:24:35. > :24:38.a date when you announce it and then the news is out two days beforehand.
:24:39. > :24:40.So call it a stitch-up, call it what you like,
:24:41. > :24:47.in my book, if there is a process you stick to it.
:24:48. > :24:50.There does seem to be an extraordinary...war.
:24:51. > :24:52.And tension here, between these two groups.
:24:53. > :25:00.Bearing in mind you agree on so much.
:25:01. > :25:03.Well, we agree on quite a lot. Some things we don't agree on.
:25:04. > :25:07.But if you look at the competition, I would say a Thatcherite principle.
:25:08. > :25:09.Sorry for the Labour members of this committee.
:25:10. > :25:15.We raised nearly ?9 million for the campaign, we wrote to over
:25:16. > :25:20.We sent out leaflets to another 11 million.
:25:21. > :25:23.So when you talk about the Government's In leaflet,
:25:24. > :25:29.our campaign has clearly communicated with the whole country.
:25:30. > :25:36.Do join me for our next daily round-up.
:25:37. > :25:41.Until then, from me, Keith McDougall, goodbye.