0:00:12 > 0:00:14Hello there and welcome to Wednesday In Parliament.
0:00:14 > 0:00:16Coming up:
0:00:16 > 0:00:18With David Cameron away from PMQs,
0:00:18 > 0:00:21it's a clash of the deputies over Europe.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24We have before us a Government in utter chaos, split down the middle.
0:00:24 > 0:00:29They are like rats deserting a sinking ship.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32Both sides of the argument tell MPs
0:00:32 > 0:00:37what they think the EU referendum result could mean for Scotland.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41And the Bishop of Newcastle makes her debut in the Lords.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44How could I have imagined as a 16-year-old girl up
0:00:44 > 0:00:49in that gallery that one day I would find myself making a maiden
0:00:49 > 0:00:52speech in your lordships' house?
0:00:52 > 0:00:56But first, with David Cameron on his way to the G7 summit in Japan,
0:00:56 > 0:00:59it fell to George Osborne to take the floor
0:00:59 > 0:01:01for Prime Minister's questions.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04And, as is tradition if the PM is away, the opposition
0:01:04 > 0:01:07also fields a deputy, so Angela Eagle took
0:01:07 > 0:01:10the place of Jeremy Corbyn.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Unsurprisingly perhaps, with the vote just under a month away,
0:01:13 > 0:01:17Ms Eagle turned to Conservative divisions over the EU referendum
0:01:17 > 0:01:21and comments made by a Minister, Priti Patel.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Mr Speaker, last week the Employment Minister called
0:01:24 > 0:01:28for Brexit so there could be a bonfire of workers' rights.
0:01:28 > 0:01:32Does the Chancellor agree with her or does he agree
0:01:32 > 0:01:35with Len McCluskey that a vote to stay in
0:01:35 > 0:01:42the European Union is the best deal for Britain's workers?
0:01:42 > 0:01:44Well, first of all, she confirmed that when she
0:01:44 > 0:01:47was in the Treasury, she asked absolutely no questions
0:01:47 > 0:01:53about the tax affairs of Google.
0:01:53 > 0:01:59When it comes to the European Union, as she knows, we agree on this,
0:01:59 > 0:02:02I think it is better that Britain remains in the European Union.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05Why don't we have some consensus now on some other issues
0:02:05 > 0:02:08like having an independent nuclear deterrent?
0:02:08 > 0:02:10Let's have a consensus on that.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13Let's have a consensus on supporting businesses
0:02:13 > 0:02:16rather than disparaging businesses.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18Let's have a consensus on not piling debts
0:02:18 > 0:02:22on the next generation but dealing with our deficit.
0:02:22 > 0:02:24Let's have a consensus that the parties in this House
0:02:24 > 0:02:30should have a credible economic policy.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33Thank you, Mr Speaker.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36I think he's just agreed with Len McCluskey.
0:02:36 > 0:02:37CHEERING
0:02:37 > 0:02:40She moved on to remarks from former Work and Pensions secretary,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42Iain Duncan Smith.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45The former Works and Pensions Secretary said this week that the
0:02:45 > 0:02:49Chancellor's Brexit report should not be believed by anyone and he
0:02:49 > 0:02:53branded the Chancellor Pinocchio with his nose just getting longer
0:02:53 > 0:02:56and longer with every fib.
0:02:56 > 0:03:00Meanwhile, the general secretary to the TUC says that the Treasury's
0:03:00 > 0:03:03report gives us half a million good reasons
0:03:03 > 0:03:06to stay in the European Union.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09Who does the Chancellor think the public should listen to?
0:03:09 > 0:03:11His former Cabinet colleague
0:03:11 > 0:03:14or the leader of Britain's millions of trade unionists?
0:03:14 > 0:03:17I don't think it's any great revelation that different
0:03:17 > 0:03:22Conservative MPs have different views on the European Union.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25That's why we are having a referendum,
0:03:25 > 0:03:30because this issue does divide parties and families and friends
0:03:30 > 0:03:34and we made a commitment in our manifesto that the British people
0:03:34 > 0:03:40would decide this question. CHEERING
0:03:40 > 0:03:43And I might just observe that if she wants to talk about
0:03:43 > 0:03:46divisions in parties, while she is sitting here,
0:03:46 > 0:03:49the leader of the Labour Party is sitting at home
0:03:49 > 0:03:51wondering whether to impeach the former leader of the Labour Party
0:03:51 > 0:03:54for war crimes.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57With 29 days to go until the most important decision
0:03:57 > 0:04:01this country has faced in a generation, we have before us
0:04:01 > 0:04:05a Government in utter chaos, split down the middle,
0:04:05 > 0:04:07at war with itself.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11The stakes could not be higher, and yet this is a Government adrift
0:04:11 > 0:04:14at the mercy of its own rebel backbenchers,
0:04:14 > 0:04:17unable to get their agenda through Parliament.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19Instead of providing the leadership the country needs,
0:04:19 > 0:04:23they're fighting a bitter proxy war over the leadership
0:04:23 > 0:04:27of their own party and I notice that no outer,
0:04:27 > 0:04:31all the Brexiteers have been banished from the front bench.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35MP: Where are they?
0:04:35 > 0:04:43JEERING
0:04:43 > 0:04:45Well...
0:04:45 > 0:04:50Well, Mr Speaker...
0:04:50 > 0:04:54Well, Mr Speaker, it's nice to see the Justice Secretary here.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56I think the Chancellor has put the rest of
0:04:56 > 0:05:01his Brexit colleagues in detention.
0:05:01 > 0:05:05Instead of providing the leadership the country needs, they are fighting
0:05:05 > 0:05:09a bitter proxy war over the leadership of their own party.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12Instead of focusing on the national interest,
0:05:12 > 0:05:19they are focusing on they are narrow self interest.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21What we need, Mr Speaker, is a Government
0:05:21 > 0:05:23which will do the best for Britain.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26What we've got is a Conservative Party focused only on themselves.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30CHEERING
0:05:30 > 0:05:32She talks about our parliamentary party.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35Let's look at her parliamentary party.
0:05:35 > 0:05:39They are like rats deserting a sinking ship.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43Because the Shadow Health Minister wants to be the mayor for Liverpool.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45You've got the Member for Bury South wants to be
0:05:45 > 0:05:46the mayor for Manchester.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49The Shadow Home Secretary wants to be the mayor for both cities.
0:05:49 > 0:05:54When we said we were creating job opportunities, we didn't mean job
0:05:54 > 0:05:56opportunities for the whole Shadow Cabinet.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59CHEERING
0:05:59 > 0:06:04They are like a Parliamentary party on day release, aren't they?
0:06:04 > 0:06:06When the Honourable Lady is here, but they know
0:06:06 > 0:06:08the member for Islington will be back
0:06:08 > 0:06:14and it's four more years of hard labour.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18Mr Speaker, today we are voting on a Queen's speech that
0:06:18 > 0:06:22delivers economic security, protects our national security,
0:06:22 > 0:06:27enhances life chances for the most disadvantaged and it doesn't matter
0:06:27 > 0:06:32who stands at that dispatch box for the Labour Party these days,
0:06:32 > 0:06:34they are dismantling our defences,
0:06:34 > 0:06:36they are wrecking our economy,
0:06:36 > 0:06:38they want to burden people with debt and
0:06:38 > 0:06:42in their own report published this week,
0:06:42 > 0:06:47called Labour's Future - surprisingly long - they say this...
0:06:47 > 0:06:50They say this in their own report, they are becoming increasingly
0:06:50 > 0:06:57irrelevant to the working people of Britain.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00Well, a little later, Remain and Leave campaigners
0:07:00 > 0:07:04were putting their cases with a particularly Scottish slant.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07The Scottish Affairs Committee is holding an inquiry
0:07:07 > 0:07:11into the EU Referendum's impact on Scotland.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14The Committee Chair, Pete Wishart, is from the SNP,
0:07:14 > 0:07:18which supports the UK's continued membership of the EU.
0:07:18 > 0:07:23But the SNP has also likened some of the Remain campaign's tactics
0:07:23 > 0:07:25to those of so-called Project Fear
0:07:25 > 0:07:28during the Scottish independence vote.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32What we have observed thus far from the supporters of the
0:07:32 > 0:07:35Remain Campaign is perhaps what we could say...
0:07:35 > 0:07:39An over emphasis of the risks of Brexit
0:07:39 > 0:07:43and I think those of us from Scotland anyway are perhaps
0:07:43 > 0:07:46familiar with some of the themes and the tone
0:07:46 > 0:07:49of some of the claims that are getting made
0:07:49 > 0:07:52by the Remain Campaign from during the Scottish referendum
0:07:52 > 0:07:55and how it was characterised simply as Project Fear
0:07:55 > 0:07:57and some of the scaremongering campaign.
0:07:57 > 0:07:59Are we going to do this differently in Scotland?
0:07:59 > 0:08:01That has certainly been our intention.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05I made a very small name for myself back in February
0:08:05 > 0:08:07coining the expression Project Cheer because we
0:08:07 > 0:08:11were very determined we weren't going to be going on the attack.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14Definitely playing the ball, not the man, if you like.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18The positives are all there in terms of cooperation,
0:08:18 > 0:08:21engagement, meeting, joint opportunities,
0:08:21 > 0:08:23dealing with common threats,
0:08:23 > 0:08:25so there is no need to go into attack.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28He said he couldn't think of any risks to Scotland
0:08:28 > 0:08:30of remaining in the EU.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33A Tory Committee member, who wants the UK to leave,
0:08:33 > 0:08:35said there were a number.
0:08:35 > 0:08:40One is that the European Union takes on more members
0:08:40 > 0:08:45and those members will be primarily poorer countries
0:08:45 > 0:08:49than Scotland and as a result, Scotland's...
0:08:49 > 0:08:52The contributions that Scotland gets from the European Union,
0:08:52 > 0:08:57although they are net contributors to the European Union,
0:08:57 > 0:09:00they will get less back because the regional funds
0:09:00 > 0:09:05will need to go to support Albania, Turkey and so on.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07Isn't that a risk?
0:09:07 > 0:09:09Well, I don't think Turkey is a risk for a
0:09:09 > 0:09:12very long time but in case of Albania, I mean, Albania
0:09:12 > 0:09:13is not exactly an enormous country.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15We have been putting a lot of infrastructure work
0:09:15 > 0:09:16into Albania already.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18But that was true in 1981 when Greece joined.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21That was true in 1986 when Spain and Portugal...
0:09:21 > 0:09:24So you don't see any risk that the amount of money
0:09:24 > 0:09:26that Scotland currently gets from the European Union would
0:09:26 > 0:09:30be diminished as a result of further expansion of the European Union?
0:09:30 > 0:09:35Well, it has collectively reduced over time as other countries have
0:09:35 > 0:09:38come in that are poorer than those parts of Scotland
0:09:38 > 0:09:40and the Highlands and Islands would say,
0:09:40 > 0:09:42as they did at the time,
0:09:42 > 0:09:46we accept the fact that we are now no longer the poorest part of Europe
0:09:46 > 0:09:48and if you are going to redistribute the money
0:09:48 > 0:09:50to where it is best used, redistribute it there.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52Isn't it just a fact that the Scottish people
0:09:52 > 0:09:54actually quite welcome membership of the European Union,
0:09:54 > 0:09:57it's something we think is important and something that we have
0:09:57 > 0:10:02enjoyed in the course of the past 30 or 40 years?
0:10:02 > 0:10:03That remains to be seen, Chair.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06I mean, I think the turnout will dictate how strongly
0:10:06 > 0:10:10people feel about it and how engaged they are in this debate, but
0:10:10 > 0:10:13from my own discussions that I have had first of all with fellow Labour
0:10:13 > 0:10:18Party members, with neighbours, with parents at my kids' school,
0:10:18 > 0:10:23I don't detect a great deal of knowledge and I don't mean that
0:10:23 > 0:10:25in a condescending way, I just think it's something
0:10:25 > 0:10:27people aren't all that interested him.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29It's almost like it's a fact of life, it's there,
0:10:29 > 0:10:33a shrug of the shoulders rather than enthusiastic.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37I think, and I have said this before, I think support for the EU
0:10:37 > 0:10:38in Scotland is very, very wide.
0:10:38 > 0:10:40I don't think it's very deep.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43And I think that once people actually hear
0:10:43 > 0:10:46the very reasonable, middle of the road,
0:10:46 > 0:10:48reasonable arguments against its membership,
0:10:48 > 0:10:53I am confident that they will listen to them and act on them.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56I have heard the calls for a positive campaign,
0:10:56 > 0:10:59but then they are usually followed up by a whole range
0:10:59 > 0:11:05of negative statements about the way the campaign is being run or process
0:11:05 > 0:11:09or even the impact that it would have on having a second
0:11:09 > 0:11:11independence referendum in Scotland.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13I think those people who are positive about
0:11:13 > 0:11:19Scotland remaining in the EU should be out there making a positive case
0:11:19 > 0:11:23and that's all of us and I think we can all shape the debate
0:11:23 > 0:11:28in Scotland by making a positive case.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31Back now to Prime Minister's Questions, where the SNP's leader
0:11:31 > 0:11:35at Westminster raised the case of an Australian 7-year-old
0:11:35 > 0:11:37who's facing deportation.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40Lachlan Brain and his family have lived in Dingwall
0:11:40 > 0:11:43in the Highlands for four years.
0:11:43 > 0:11:48Next week, as the Home Secretary is currently briefing him,
0:11:48 > 0:11:52the Home Department plans to deport him and his family despite the fact
0:11:52 > 0:11:57that he arrived as part of a Scottish Government initiative
0:11:57 > 0:12:00backed by the Home Office to attract people
0:12:00 > 0:12:02to live and work in the region.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05This case has been front-page news in Scotland
0:12:05 > 0:12:08and been repeatedly raised in the House.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11What does the Chancellor have to say to the Brain family
0:12:11 > 0:12:17and the community who want them to stay?
0:12:17 > 0:12:19Well, as I understand it, the family don't meet
0:12:19 > 0:12:24the immigration criteria but the Home Secretary says she is very
0:12:24 > 0:12:28happy to write to the Right Honourable Gentleman on the details
0:12:28 > 0:12:32of the specific case.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34I'm sorry, this has been going on for weeks
0:12:34 > 0:12:36and that frankly is not good enough.
0:12:36 > 0:12:37Hear, hear.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39Appeals have been made to the Home Secretary
0:12:39 > 0:12:44by the First Minister, by the local MP, by the local MSP,
0:12:44 > 0:12:45by the community...
0:12:45 > 0:12:48It is wall-to-wall across the media of Scotland
0:12:48 > 0:12:54and the Chancellor of the Exchequer clearly knew nothing about it.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56The problem in the Highlands of Scotland
0:12:56 > 0:13:01is not immigration, it has been emigration
0:13:01 > 0:13:04so even at this late stage, knowing nothing about it,
0:13:04 > 0:13:07will the Chancellor speak to the Home Secretary,
0:13:07 > 0:13:15speak to the Prime Minister and get this sorted out?
0:13:15 > 0:13:18Well, as I say, the Home Secretary will write to the Right Honourable
0:13:18 > 0:13:22Gentleman on the details of the case but can I make a suggestion?
0:13:22 > 0:13:24Can I make a suggestion to the Scottish National Party?
0:13:24 > 0:13:30They now have very substantial tax and enterprise powers
0:13:30 > 0:13:33and if they want to attract people to the Highlands of Scotland,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36why don't they create an entrepreneurial Scotland
0:13:36 > 0:13:39that people want to move to from the rest of the United Kingdom
0:13:39 > 0:13:45where they can grow their business and have a successful life?
0:13:45 > 0:13:49George Osborne, filling in for David Cameron at PMQs.
0:13:49 > 0:13:57You're watching Wednesday in Parliament with me, Alicia McCarthy.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01Now, MPs have been told that the man who bought high street retailer BHS
0:14:01 > 0:14:04for ?1 from the billionaire Sir Philip Green was taking
0:14:04 > 0:14:08a "punt" on a successful turnaround of the firm.
0:14:08 > 0:14:14BHS was sold to Retail Acquisitions Limited or RAL in 2015.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18It went into administration in April this year.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21RAL was headed by Dominic Chappell, a former racing driver
0:14:21 > 0:14:27who'd previously been declared bankrupt.
0:14:27 > 0:14:29Continuing its inquiry into the collapse of BHS,
0:14:29 > 0:14:32a joint committee of MPs heard evidence from City firms that
0:14:32 > 0:14:34advised on the sale.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36When you were meeting Mr Chappell,
0:14:36 > 0:14:40and he was talking to you about his future ambitions,
0:14:40 > 0:14:44what sort of empire was he sketching in to you
0:14:44 > 0:14:49that he hoped this purchase would lead onto?
0:14:49 > 0:14:53I'm probably the least...
0:14:53 > 0:14:54Or I'm probably the most biased person
0:14:54 > 0:14:57you could ask that question to.
0:14:57 > 0:14:58My relationship with Dominic is...
0:14:58 > 0:15:00That's why we want it from you.
0:15:00 > 0:15:01It's poor.
0:15:01 > 0:15:05So the starting point really is that when we are
0:15:05 > 0:15:08interacting with Dominic, we're thinking,
0:15:08 > 0:15:09this is hugely ambitious.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12Is this real?
0:15:12 > 0:15:14Does it have a realistic chance of success?
0:15:14 > 0:15:16And for us, it's a success-only engagement.
0:15:16 > 0:15:21It's a bit of a punt.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24He said in the end, Mr Chappell found his funding elsewhere.
0:15:24 > 0:15:29What other names was he suggesting might become part of his empire?
0:15:29 > 0:15:33I don't want to be specific, but there was a Swiss retailer
0:15:33 > 0:15:35that was mentioned, there was a small UK retailer
0:15:35 > 0:15:37that was also mentioned.
0:15:37 > 0:15:44So the plans, as I say, were ambitious and as time passed,
0:15:44 > 0:15:46they seemed to gather credibility because they appeared to
0:15:46 > 0:15:51be coming more and more real.
0:15:51 > 0:15:55I say it was ambitious because he didn't have a CV
0:15:55 > 0:15:59and it was a large acquisition that he was planning to make.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02As you rightly say, many entrepreneurs have big ambitions and
0:16:02 > 0:16:05big egos and sometimes things that don't seem plausible on day one
0:16:05 > 0:16:09turn out to work subsequently.
0:16:09 > 0:16:13What was his status for these negotiations?
0:16:13 > 0:16:14Was he discharged?
0:16:14 > 0:16:16He was discharged bankrupt, yes.
0:16:16 > 0:16:17And that means what?
0:16:17 > 0:16:19That means that an order has been made
0:16:19 > 0:16:21to discharge the bankruptcy order,
0:16:21 > 0:16:25so he is free and able then to carry on business as before.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27So the court sets him free?
0:16:27 > 0:16:29Effectively, yes.
0:16:29 > 0:16:30In correspondence that we have seen,
0:16:30 > 0:16:34you've said that there could be question marks over
0:16:34 > 0:16:37Mr Chappell's business acumen, but actually the only fault he's got
0:16:37 > 0:16:39is that he was an eternal optimist.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42Is that a fair summary of his character?
0:16:42 > 0:16:45I couldn't make a judgment as I stand here now
0:16:45 > 0:16:47about his character because that wouldn't be, I think, the right
0:16:47 > 0:16:50thing for us to do as a professional advisory firm...
0:16:50 > 0:16:53But you were talking to another law firm saying, do you know what?
0:16:53 > 0:16:55We have done vigorous checks on him and yes,
0:16:55 > 0:16:57we understand that he has been made bankrupt but actually,
0:16:57 > 0:17:00he has seen himself as an entrepreneur
0:17:00 > 0:17:05and he is optimistic.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07What we can do is confirm to people if they ask,
0:17:07 > 0:17:11it's an unusual occurrence but it did happen here, we can confirm to
0:17:11 > 0:17:13people if they ask what due diligence checks we have done,
0:17:13 > 0:17:16but what we don't do is we don't give references
0:17:16 > 0:17:17on people's probity and competence.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20Now back to the Commons, where the debate on the contents
0:17:20 > 0:17:22of the Queen's speech continued.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25The subject this time, education, skills and training.
0:17:25 > 0:17:29The SNP spokesman turned to differences between education
0:17:29 > 0:17:34policy in England and Scotland.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36Whilst the bills contained in the Queen's speech
0:17:36 > 0:17:38regarding education, skills, training, access
0:17:38 > 0:17:40to employment, the subject of today's debate are,
0:17:40 > 0:17:43of course, majorly related to England, or England and Wales
0:17:43 > 0:17:46only, they do serve to highlight the contrast in approach to these
0:17:46 > 0:17:50important matters between the SNP Scottish Government which has
0:17:50 > 0:17:53independent powers of education and the Conservative UK Government.
0:17:53 > 0:17:58The great spectre hanging over the higher education and research
0:17:58 > 0:18:06bill is that of students facing fees of up to now more than ?9,000
0:18:06 > 0:18:08per year whilst Scottish students that access their university
0:18:08 > 0:18:14education without fees.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16The right honourable member for Tatton, the Chancellor
0:18:16 > 0:18:19of the Exchequer promised in a letter to one of his
0:18:19 > 0:18:21constituents in 2003 that when the Conservative Party
0:18:21 > 0:18:23were next in government, it would scrap tuition fees altogether.
0:18:23 > 0:18:25Oh, what a conversion we have seen.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27He now wants to see tuition fees rise even further.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31The origin of the university in my fine city of Norwich,
0:18:31 > 0:18:34the university of East Anglia, was in that great university
0:18:34 > 0:18:37expansion of the 1960s and I welcome the clear emphasis that we have
0:18:37 > 0:18:40in today's bill on making it easier for more high-quality universities
0:18:40 > 0:18:44to enter the sector and boost choice for students.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47Higher education is one of the greatest engines for social
0:18:47 > 0:18:50mobility we have and we should celebrate the record application
0:18:50 > 0:18:55rates we are seeing among students from disadvantaged backgrounds.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58But there is a lot more to do.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01In January this year, the social mobility and child
0:19:01 > 0:19:04poverty commission identified the life chances of a poor child
0:19:04 > 0:19:07growing up in the Norwich City out for area as some of the very
0:19:07 > 0:19:11worst in the country.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13The Conservative chair of the Education Committee said
0:19:13 > 0:19:15he supported the expansion of academies and his committee
0:19:15 > 0:19:20was going to look at the setting up of multi-academy trusts.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24We do need to encourage academies to come together to support each
0:19:24 > 0:19:30other because this is a partnership, cooperation, schools taking
0:19:30 > 0:19:34the initiative to help other schools and I think that is a combination
0:19:34 > 0:19:36that will work to drive up standards, especially in those areas
0:19:36 > 0:19:40where standards are not high enough.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42And we do know there are pockets of such places.
0:19:42 > 0:19:44Yes, I will give way.
0:19:44 > 0:19:46I thank the honourable member for giving way.
0:19:46 > 0:19:48Is he, therefore, in favour of Ofsted inspecting
0:19:48 > 0:19:50the academy chains?
0:19:50 > 0:19:54At the moment, the government prevents them from doing so,
0:19:54 > 0:19:57we don't know what their overheads are, we don't know how much
0:19:57 > 0:20:00they are putting into each school, we don't know what they are spending
0:20:00 > 0:20:01on the Chief Executive salaries.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04What does he think of Ofsted inspecting Academy chains?
0:20:04 > 0:20:07This is a matter the education select committee has been quite
0:20:07 > 0:20:09forceful on both in the last Parliament and I expect it
0:20:09 > 0:20:12will comment on that matter again.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14I am personally in favour of a multi-Academy trust
0:20:14 > 0:20:18being inspected and I think that is something we should
0:20:18 > 0:20:20be looking into.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23A Labour MP feared that despite a government U-turn,
0:20:23 > 0:20:27schools could still be forced to become academies.
0:20:27 > 0:20:29I really think that a Conservative government will to be
0:20:29 > 0:20:35listening to head teachers, parents and local communities
0:20:35 > 0:20:43in these matters are not continuing with their view that every school
0:20:43 > 0:20:45should become an academy whether or not it is
0:20:45 > 0:20:46in both interests.
0:20:46 > 0:20:49Academisation can be a good thing, there are plenty of examples
0:20:49 > 0:20:51where it has turned around the fortunes of a school,
0:20:51 > 0:20:55but forced academisation is not.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57While another Labour MP turned to proposed changes to school
0:20:57 > 0:20:58funding in England.
0:20:58 > 0:21:06And these concerns are extremely timely, giving the findings
0:21:06 > 0:21:08of an IPPR North report earlier this week that secondary schools
0:21:08 > 0:21:11in the North of England, or the Northern Powerhouse,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13to give us our correct title, are currently receiving ?1300
0:21:13 > 0:21:18per pupil less than schools in London.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21The situation clearly needs rectifying and quickly
0:21:21 > 0:21:23if the Northern Powerhouse is to ever become anything more
0:21:23 > 0:21:28than an empty announcement.
0:21:28 > 0:21:29Catherine McKinnell.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31A Labour peer has pressed the government over fears that
0:21:31 > 0:21:35replacing bursaries with loans will mean a fall in the number
0:21:35 > 0:21:39of student nurses. At question time in the Lords,
0:21:39 > 0:21:41Lord Hunt, wanted to know if the minister
0:21:41 > 0:21:44was aware of concerns from the Commons Public Accounts
0:21:44 > 0:21:46Committee about the change.
0:21:46 > 0:21:50The Labour peer argued there was a real risk
0:21:50 > 0:21:52that the switch to loans would particularly put off older
0:21:52 > 0:21:55students and those with children.
0:21:55 > 0:21:59Given the desperate shortage of nurses and other professions,
0:21:59 > 0:22:03shouldn't the government actually just take a little time to examine
0:22:03 > 0:22:08whether its original decision was justified rather than simply
0:22:08 > 0:22:13consulting on the way it was going to be implemented?
0:22:13 > 0:22:17All the evidence from other, not just from nursing,
0:22:17 > 0:22:23but other university courses, is that the loans have not reduced
0:22:23 > 0:22:25the number of people wishing to become...
0:22:25 > 0:22:27Wishing to go to university, quite the contrary.
0:22:27 > 0:22:29The numbers of people going to university have gone up
0:22:29 > 0:22:32since student loans were introduced.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36And the demand from young men and women who wish to go
0:22:36 > 0:22:38into nursing is very strong.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42He will know that 57,000 people apply every year to become nurses
0:22:42 > 0:22:44and there are only 20,000 places.
0:22:44 > 0:22:46We are confident there will be...
0:22:46 > 0:22:51This will result in more nurses, not fewer nurses.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55How much will the Treasury save by shifting this debt from low
0:22:55 > 0:23:00paid nurses to the government...
0:23:00 > 0:23:03From the government to low paid nurses and given the demographic
0:23:03 > 0:23:07of nurses who are overwhelmingly female and, as I said,
0:23:07 > 0:23:11relatively low paid, surely quite a lot of that student
0:23:11 > 0:23:15debt is never going to be repaid.
0:23:15 > 0:23:18Is this really such a good deal for the government?
0:23:18 > 0:23:23It is a good deal for the government, if you put it
0:23:23 > 0:23:29like that, on a number of fronts.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31It is good for patients that there will been more nurses,
0:23:31 > 0:23:34it is good for the government because there will be less need
0:23:34 > 0:23:36to recruit overseas nurses and agency nurses.
0:23:36 > 0:23:44Of course, the noble lady is right that immature students coming in,
0:23:44 > 0:23:47-- for mature students.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50Time to repay the debt of the student loan will be less
0:23:50 > 0:23:53than it will be for younger people, but the government will
0:23:53 > 0:23:54see a return on that.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56My noble friend said there were 20,000 nursing places
0:23:56 > 0:23:59available for training and 54,000, I think over 50,000 people
0:23:59 > 0:24:00wishing to fill them.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03But we also read there is a shortage of nurses such as there are heavy
0:24:03 > 0:24:05demands made for agency nursing.
0:24:05 > 0:24:08What explains that discrepancy?
0:24:08 > 0:24:11My Lords, the reason for the discrepancy is that
0:24:11 > 0:24:15at the moment the bursary system effectively caps the number
0:24:15 > 0:24:19of student places for nursing.
0:24:19 > 0:24:20The purpose for moving...
0:24:20 > 0:24:25Or one of the purposes for moving the system is to remove that cap
0:24:25 > 0:24:28and our estimate is that by so doing, then additional 10,000
0:24:28 > 0:24:33places will be created between 2017 and 2020.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36Lord Prior.
0:24:36 > 0:24:41Later in the day as peers continued their debate
0:24:41 > 0:24:43on the Queen's speech there was a maiden speech
0:24:43 > 0:24:46from the new Bishop of Newcastle - she spoke about her
0:24:46 > 0:24:47inspirational teachers.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51One of those teachers was Mrs Boyd who started a debating
0:24:51 > 0:24:55society in our school.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58She had a passion for the art of debating and wanted us
0:24:58 > 0:25:01to catch that passion.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05Her sister, the noble Baroness the late Lady Burke,
0:25:05 > 0:25:07had just been introduced into the Lords as one of those
0:25:07 > 0:25:12pioneering early women life peers and through Lady Burke's good
0:25:12 > 0:25:16offices, she brought our little debating team to this place
0:25:16 > 0:25:21to inspire us by witnessing debating at its best.
0:25:21 > 0:25:29How could I have imagined as a 16-year-old girl up in that
0:25:29 > 0:25:35gallery that one day I would find myself making a maiden speech
0:25:35 > 0:25:37in your lordships' House?
0:25:37 > 0:25:39The Bishop of Newcastle, the Rt Rev, Christine Hardman.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42Bringing us to the end of this edition of the programme.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45I'll be back at the same time tomorrow with another round up
0:25:45 > 0:25:47of the best of the day day here at Westminster,
0:25:47 > 0:25:49including the last day's debate on the Queen's speech.
0:25:49 > 0:25:54But until then, from me, goodbye.