0:00:19 > 0:00:22Hello and Welcome to Wednesday in Parliament, our look at the best
0:00:22 > 0:00:25of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28So how are we going to leavd the European Union?
0:00:28 > 0:00:31The party leaders clash, again, over Brexit.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34Devolved governments don't know the plan,
0:00:34 > 0:00:36businesses don't know the plan, Parliament doesn't know
0:00:36 > 0:00:39the plan.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42It is this Government that hs listening to the voice of the
0:00:42 > 0:00:43British people.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45Also on this programme:
0:00:45 > 0:00:48The firm employed to root ott fraud in the tax credits system comes
0:00:48 > 0:00:51in for criticism by MPs.
0:00:51 > 0:00:57This is about the duty of the Government to preserve
0:00:57 > 0:00:59justice being abandoned by the profit motive this contract
0:00:59 > 0:01:00provided.
0:01:00 > 0:01:01But first:
0:01:01 > 0:01:06"It's a shambolic Tory Brexht"
0:01:06 > 0:01:08the phrase of the Labour le`der Jeremy Corbyn when Prime Minister's
0:01:08 > 0:01:13Questions returned to the stbject of Britain's EU departure.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16Mr Corbyn said it was time Theresa May gave some clarity over
0:01:16 > 0:01:17the Government's plans.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20Meanwhile, the Prime Ministdr accused him of trying to "frustrate
0:01:20 > 0:01:22the will of the British people" that had been expressed in
0:01:22 > 0:01:25the June referendum.
0:01:25 > 0:01:27First, the Labour leader quoted the remarks of the First
0:01:27 > 0:01:29Minister of Wales - remarks that followed
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Monday's Downing Street meeting between Theresa May and the leaders
0:01:32 > 0:01:36of all the UK devolved asselblies.
0:01:36 > 0:01:42First Minister for Wales Carwyn Jones said there is a great deal of
0:01:42 > 0:01:45uncertainty but they are sure they need full
0:01:45 > 0:01:46and unfettered access to
0:01:47 > 0:01:48the single market.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51Can the Prime Minister help the First Minister
0:01:51 > 0:01:53of Wales and indeed the othdr devolved administrations by giving
0:01:53 > 0:01:54them some clarity?
0:01:54 > 0:01:57In relation to the issue of clarity on the aims
0:01:57 > 0:02:01that the Government has in relation to Brexit I have been very clear and
0:02:01 > 0:02:08I will be clear again.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11There are those who talk about means and those
0:02:11 > 0:02:13who talk about ends.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15I am talking about ends.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18What we want to see is
0:02:18 > 0:02:21the best possible arrangement for trade with and operation within
0:02:21 > 0:02:24the single European market for businesses in goods and services
0:02:24 > 0:02:28here in the United Kingdom.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32I thought for a moment the Prime Minister was going to say Brexit
0:02:32 > 0:02:33means Brexit again.
0:02:33 > 0:02:40There are others...
0:02:40 > 0:02:47I am sure she will tell us what it actually means.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49The Mayor of London also added this is causing
0:02:49 > 0:02:52unnecessary certainty but it is also very important...
0:02:52 > 0:03:00Uncertainty.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02Mr Speaker, it would be also helpful if
0:03:02 > 0:03:04the Prime Minister could provide some clarity over the Northdrn
0:03:04 > 0:03:08Ireland border.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10Will we continue membership of a customs union or are
0:03:10 > 0:03:12we going to see border checks introduced between Northern Ireland
0:03:12 > 0:03:16and the Republic?
0:03:16 > 0:03:19The Leader of the Opposition tries to poke fun at the
0:03:19 > 0:03:26phrase, Brexit means Brexit, but the whole point is this.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Brexit, it's this Government that is
0:03:29 > 0:03:35listening to the voice of the British people.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37What the...
0:03:37 > 0:03:39Brexit means Brexit, that means we're coming
0:03:39 > 0:03:42out of the European Union.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44What the right honourable gentleman tries to
0:03:44 > 0:03:46be doing is frustrating the will of the British people
0:03:46 > 0:03:48by saying that Brexit means something completely
0:03:48 > 0:03:54different.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56In relation to the Northern Irish border a considerable amount
0:03:56 > 0:03:59of work was already going on with the Irish Government to look at
0:03:59 > 0:04:01issues around the Common Travel Area.
0:04:01 > 0:04:02That work is continuing.
0:04:02 > 0:04:03We have been very clear, the Government
0:04:03 > 0:04:07of the Republic of Ireland have been very clear,
0:04:07 > 0:04:17the Northern Ireland Executhve has been very clear, that
0:04:19 > 0:04:23none of us want to see a return to the borders of of the past.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25Every day the Prime Minister dithers over this chaotic
0:04:25 > 0:04:27Brexit employers delay investment, and rumours circulate about
0:04:27 > 0:04:28relocation.
0:04:28 > 0:04:30This cannot carry on until March of next year.
0:04:30 > 0:04:32When is the Prime Minister are going to come
0:04:32 > 0:04:33up with a plan?
0:04:33 > 0:04:36I want this country to be a global leader in free trade.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40The Labour Party is against free trade.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43I want to introduce control on free movement so that we haven't
0:04:43 > 0:04:46got free movement.
0:04:46 > 0:04:48The Labour Party wants to continue with free movemdnt.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51I want to deliver on the will of the British people.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53He is trying to frustrate the will of the British
0:04:54 > 0:04:55people.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57Mr Speaker, there was no answer on the border, which was thd
0:04:57 > 0:05:02question.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04And on Monday, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told the House,
0:05:04 > 0:05:08and I quote, we have a plan which is not to set
0:05:08 > 0:05:10out at every stage of the
0:05:10 > 0:05:13negotiation the details.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15I have been thinking about this for a
0:05:15 > 0:05:16couple of days, Mr Speaker.
0:05:16 > 0:05:20And I think...
0:05:20 > 0:05:25I think when you are searchhng for the real meaning and
0:05:25 > 0:05:27importance behind the Prime Minister's statement
0:05:27 > 0:05:29you have to consult the
0:05:29 > 0:05:31great philosophers.
0:05:31 > 0:05:39The only one I can come up with ..
0:05:39 > 0:05:42Mr Cleverley, calm yourself.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45You are imperilling your own health, man, which is a
0:05:45 > 0:05:46source of great concern to le.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49Jeremy Corbyn.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52All I could come up with, Mr Speaker, was Baldrick, who says
0:05:52 > 0:05:59our cunning plan is to have no plan.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01Brexit was apparently about taking back control but the devolvdd
0:06:01 > 0:06:04governments don't know the plan businesses don't know the plan,
0:06:04 > 0:06:09Parliament doesn't know the plan.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12When will the Prime Minister abandon this shambolic Tory Brexit
0:06:12 > 0:06:16and develop a plan that delhvers for the whole country?
0:06:16 > 0:06:20We are going to deliver the best possible deal for
0:06:20 > 0:06:23trade in goods and services both with and operation within the
0:06:23 > 0:06:26European Union.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29And we are going to deliver an end to free movement.
0:06:29 > 0:06:31That is what the British people want and that is
0:06:31 > 0:06:32what this Government is
0:06:32 > 0:06:37going to deliver for them.
0:06:37 > 0:06:39The Prime Minister's real plan for Brexit
0:06:39 > 0:06:43seems to be to pick winners, to cut a special deal for the City of
0:06:43 > 0:06:46London, to let the bankers `void the dire consequences of le`ving the
0:06:46 > 0:06:47Economic Union.
0:06:47 > 0:06:57Wales has an exporting economy
0:06:59 > 0:07:02wirth a ?5 billion trade surplus last year and 200,000 jobs,
0:07:02 > 0:07:05dependent on trade with the European Union.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08A soft Brexit for her friends in the City, a hard Brexit for
0:07:08 > 0:07:09everyone else.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11Will she cut a similar deal for Wales?
0:07:11 > 0:07:13I will be cutting the best deal for United
0:07:13 > 0:07:15Kingdom, all parts of it.
0:07:15 > 0:07:19Russia has withdrawn a requdst to refuel a naval flotilla
0:07:19 > 0:07:23at a Spanish port in north @frica.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25A battle group has been sailing for the past week from Russha,
0:07:25 > 0:07:29and Spain had been facing pressure from its Nato partners
0:07:29 > 0:07:32to refuse access to the port because of concerns that thd Russian
0:07:32 > 0:07:36warships could take part in attacks on the beleaguerdd
0:07:36 > 0:07:38Syrian city of Aleppo.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40At Prime Minister's Questions, the SNP's Westminster leader
0:07:40 > 0:07:41Angus Robertson called Syri`
0:07:41 > 0:07:44"one of the biggest humanit`rian catastrophes of our time".
0:07:44 > 0:07:46He said he expected the latdst ceasefire in Aleppo
0:07:46 > 0:07:51would end shortly.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54Will the Prime Minister tell us what efforts the UK is currdntly
0:07:54 > 0:07:57undertaking to support a pe`ceful resolution to the conflict but also
0:07:57 > 0:08:01to deal with those who are exacerbating the situation?
0:08:01 > 0:08:04My right honourable friend the Foreign
0:08:04 > 0:08:09Secretary has been involved in discussions with the United States
0:08:09 > 0:08:12Secretary of State, Senator Kerry, about these particular issuds,
0:08:12 > 0:08:16looking for that way forward.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19I raised the issue of Russian actions in
0:08:19 > 0:08:21Syria, particularly the bombing of Aleppo, at the European Tnion
0:08:21 > 0:08:24council at the end of last week
0:08:24 > 0:08:26It was only on the agenda because the
0:08:26 > 0:08:28UK had raised it and as a result of that
0:08:28 > 0:08:31discussion the EU agreed that
0:08:31 > 0:08:35should the atrocities continue then we will look at all available
0:08:35 > 0:08:38options for taking action to put pressure on Russia to stop
0:08:38 > 0:08:41indiscriminate bombing of innocent civilians.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45In recent years more than
0:08:45 > 0:08:5160 Russian naval vessels have been resupplied in Spanish ports.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54Will the Prime Minister join me and EU and Nato
0:08:54 > 0:09:00allies in unequivocally calling on Spain to refuse refuelling?
0:09:00 > 0:09:04What we have seen sadly is that the Russians
0:09:04 > 0:09:07are already able to unleash attacks on innocent civilians in Syria.
0:09:07 > 0:09:13What matters is that we put pressure on
0:09:13 > 0:09:17Russia to do what everybody agrees is the only way that we are going to
0:09:17 > 0:09:21resolve this issue, which is to ensure that we have a polithcal
0:09:21 > 0:09:23transition in Syria and that is where we should
0:09:23 > 0:09:27focus our attention.
0:09:27 > 0:09:34Later at Prime Minister's Qtestions, Theresa May faced an accusation
0:09:34 > 0:09:37that the Government had broken its promise over
0:09:37 > 0:09:40the provision of adequate mental health services.
0:09:40 > 0:09:42The Labour MP Luciana Berger said half of all clinical
0:09:42 > 0:09:44commissioning groups, or CCGs, in England were having
0:09:44 > 0:09:48to reduce the amounts they spend on mental health services.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51That claim came after anothdr Labour MP had raised the tragic case
0:09:51 > 0:09:54of one of his relatives.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57Mr Speaker, last year my 25-year-old nephew
0:09:57 > 0:09:59committed suicide after a
0:09:59 > 0:10:02very short period of depression
0:10:02 > 0:10:07His GP had referred him for talking therapy, counselling,
0:10:07 > 0:10:11but warned him it would be `t least six months
0:10:11 > 0:10:14before he got an appointment.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17Mr Speaker, this treatment in the NHS
0:10:17 > 0:10:20very often is a waiting gamd, and a dangerous waiting gamd, and a
0:10:20 > 0:10:21postcode lottery.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24What is the Prime Minister doing to sort this crisis
0:10:24 > 0:10:28out?
0:10:28 > 0:10:34Can I first of all recognisd and commend the honourable gentleman
0:10:34 > 0:10:36for raising the personal experience that he has of the terrible tragedy
0:10:36 > 0:10:39that can occur when mental health problems are not properly ddalt
0:10:39 > 0:10:44with?
0:10:44 > 0:10:47He raises a very serious issue and that is a serious issue for
0:10:47 > 0:10:50everybody in this House on how the NHS treats mental health.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52That is why we have established this concept
0:10:52 > 0:10:55of parity of esteem for mental health and physical health hn the
0:10:55 > 0:10:56National Health Service.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58It is why we are seeing record levels of
0:10:58 > 0:10:59funding.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister just told us there are record
0:11:02 > 0:11:06levels of spending going into our mental health services.
0:11:06 > 0:11:08The Health Secretary stood at that dispatch box on
0:11:08 > 0:11:11the 9th of December and told us that the proportion of fundhng
0:11:11 > 0:11:13going into mental health from every one of our
0:11:13 > 0:11:14CCGs should be increasing.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17Why is it then that 57% of CCGs in our country
0:11:17 > 0:11:27are reducing the proportion of spending
0:11:27 > 0:11:34are reducing the proportion of spending on mental healtht?
0:11:34 > 0:11:37Yet
0:11:37 > 0:11:38another broken promise.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41When will we have real equality for mental health
0:11:41 > 0:11:42in our country?
0:11:42 > 0:11:44The fact that I set out that we are spending record
0:11:44 > 0:11:47levels in the NHS on mental health is absolutely right.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50But I have said in response to a number of people who
0:11:50 > 0:11:53have questioned on this that we recognise that there is mord for us
0:11:53 > 0:11:56to do in mental health and H would have thought that we should have
0:11:56 > 0:11:58cross-party support in doing just that.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00At the start of the month Jeremy Hunt pledged that thd NHS
0:12:00 > 0:12:02in England would be "self-sufficient" in doctors after
0:12:02 > 0:12:04the UK leaves the European Tnion.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07The Health Secretary promisdd that medical schools in the UK would be
0:12:07 > 0:12:09allowed to offer up to 1,500 extra training places a year.
0:12:09 > 0:12:12Mr Hunt questioned whether Britain should continue to "import" doctors
0:12:12 > 0:12:14from poorer countries while turning away domestic graduates
0:12:14 > 0:12:15keen to study medicine.
0:12:15 > 0:12:17In the House of Lords, a Conservative peer said he was
0:12:17 > 0:12:20pleased with the Health Secretary's new approach, but he said
0:12:20 > 0:12:25the problem went deeper.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28Today, 56% of the intake of medical students is female.
0:12:28 > 0:12:34Furthermore, 70% of female GPs today work part-time,
0:12:34 > 0:12:37and a recent survey from the King's Fund says that 0%
0:12:37 > 0:12:44of all medical students in training want to work part-time.
0:12:44 > 0:12:50Given that it costs 200,000 to train anybody as a medical practitioner,
0:12:50 > 0:12:53surely the time has come to consider a minimum full-time commitmdnt
0:12:53 > 0:13:01of at least four years after qualification,
0:13:01 > 0:13:07similar to what they do in Singapore and indeed in our own Armed Forces.
0:13:07 > 0:13:12My noble friend is absolutely right that over 55% of men and wolen
0:13:12 > 0:13:15who go to medical school are now women, and I think
0:13:15 > 0:13:18that is a fantastic change that has happened over the last 20 ydars
0:13:18 > 0:13:21And it is true that more wolen than men tend to work part-time
0:13:21 > 0:13:26as they have children and bring up their children,
0:13:26 > 0:13:36and that is taken into accotnt in the planning done by HEE.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40When my right honourable frhend the Health Secretary
0:13:40 > 0:13:43announced that he would be looking in our consultation at requhring
0:13:43 > 0:13:46people to whom we have paid to go through medical school to ghve
0:13:46 > 0:13:50at least four years back to the NHS, which I think is reasonable.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52The figure is actually six xears if you become an Army doctor,
0:13:52 > 0:13:55so I think four years is not unreasonable.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58Is the noble lord, the minister aware that whilst there may be
0:13:58 > 0:14:00enough people wanting to apply to medical school,
0:14:00 > 0:14:02many of the brightest and the best are now completely turned away
0:14:02 > 0:14:04from doing medicine because of the relationship with
0:14:04 > 0:14:06the Secretary of State for Health?
0:14:06 > 0:14:07Hear, hear.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10This is a very serious mistrust and whether they're male or female,
0:14:10 > 0:14:12the brightest and the best are often not applying,
0:14:12 > 0:14:14and there is increasing evidence of this in most medical schools
0:14:14 > 0:14:16and indeed in schools as well.
0:14:16 > 0:14:18You're watching our round-up of the day
0:14:18 > 0:14:19in the Commons and the Lords.
0:14:19 > 0:14:26Still to come: In the post-Brexit world, do we need a new roy`l yacht?
0:14:27 > 0:14:29MPs have turned their fire on the Government over
0:14:29 > 0:14:32the management of its contr`ct with Concentrix.
0:14:32 > 0:14:34Her Majesty's Revenue and Ctstoms employed the American firm to
0:14:34 > 0:14:40root out fraud and error in the tax credit system, but Concentrhx has
0:14:40 > 0:14:44made some surprising mistakds, leaving thousands of people
0:14:44 > 0:14:47short of money after their benefits were stopped on the basis
0:14:47 > 0:14:49of flawed information.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52Last month, HMRC stepped in to review cases previously
0:14:52 > 0:14:55dealt with by Concentrix.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57The firm has also been told that its contract
0:14:57 > 0:14:59will not be renewed.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Labour is calling on the Government to investigate what went wrong,
0:15:02 > 0:15:06and many MPs shared examples of errors faced
0:15:06 > 0:15:08by their constituents.
0:15:08 > 0:15:11I was contacted not so long ago by a woman in a similar sittation.
0:15:11 > 0:15:15She had been accused by Concentrix of...
0:15:15 > 0:15:18She had her tax credits cut because they accused her of having
0:15:18 > 0:15:23a lesbian relationship with her sister, and it took her
0:15:23 > 0:15:27coming to the Member of Parliament, and myself calling Concentrhx,
0:15:27 > 0:15:31myself, before they started to believe the truth.
0:15:31 > 0:15:35Isn't it absurd that it takds a direct intervention from ` Member
0:15:35 > 0:15:38of Parliament before this ridiculous company takes
0:15:38 > 0:15:40these people seriously?
0:15:40 > 0:15:42Hear, hear.
0:15:42 > 0:15:43I thank my honourable member for his comments,
0:15:43 > 0:15:47and the term "it beggars belief" springs to mind,
0:15:47 > 0:15:52and unfortunately, his case is not an isolated one.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55There is an ever-growing evhdence base suggesting that Concentrix
0:15:55 > 0:16:00has been unfairly and unjustly stopping people's tax credits,
0:16:00 > 0:16:03leaving them in financial difficulty,
0:16:03 > 0:16:06along with the anxiety that causes.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09She questioned whether paymdnt by results was the right kind
0:16:09 > 0:16:12of contract, and whether the Government had monitored
0:16:12 > 0:16:14the impact on claimants.
0:16:14 > 0:16:19It wasn't simply a case of slapping Concentrix on the back of the hand
0:16:19 > 0:16:21and then let's all move on.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25This is about the duty of the Government to preserve justice
0:16:25 > 0:16:30being abandoned by the profht motive this contract providdd.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33The risks here were real human risks - families
0:16:33 > 0:16:37forced into destitution, anguish, despair and all
0:16:37 > 0:16:42of the associated pressures on an individual's mental hdalth.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44Over the last few months, it has become clear that
0:16:44 > 0:16:47despite the best efforts of the majority of its front-line
0:16:47 > 0:16:50staff, Concentrix was failing to meet the standards we expected,
0:16:50 > 0:16:52and indeed had specified in their contract.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55And this meant that many of those people we have been hearing
0:16:55 > 0:16:58about in the honourable ladx's speech, and in interventions so far,
0:16:58 > 0:17:03people like my constituents whose tax credits were being investigated,
0:17:03 > 0:17:06which caused needless frustration and distress when it came
0:17:06 > 0:17:08to resolving their cases.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12She said HMRC staff were now reviewing cases initially
0:17:12 > 0:17:13considered by Concentrix.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16Anyone who wishes to challenge any changes made to their tax credits
0:17:16 > 0:17:20has a right to request a mandatory reconsideration of their case.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23As of the start of this week, HMRC had received over
0:17:23 > 0:17:2626,000 such requests, and staff have already revidwed
0:17:26 > 0:17:30and resolved over three quarters of those, and are up-to-datd
0:17:30 > 0:17:32with these Concentrix reviews.
0:17:32 > 0:17:36Now, as I say, that means rdsolved in accordance with the facts -
0:17:36 > 0:17:39it does not necessarily mean that all of the...
0:17:39 > 0:17:41There was a problem in each case.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43I have had two Concentrix c`ses from single mothers,
0:17:43 > 0:17:47one of whom was required to disprove a relationship she had plainly never
0:17:47 > 0:17:49had with the former tenant of her house,
0:17:49 > 0:17:51evidence she could not possibly provide.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54But would my honourable fridnd agree that the important thing now
0:17:54 > 0:17:57is that this contract with Concentrix has been ended,
0:17:57 > 0:18:00that a system for investigating mistakes has been put in pl`ce,
0:18:00 > 0:18:03and that a hardship fund has been put in place?
0:18:03 > 0:18:04That's what is important going forward.
0:18:04 > 0:18:07I would not agree with all the points that have been m`de,
0:18:07 > 0:18:10but there has been much fair comment, and, as I say,
0:18:10 > 0:18:12for that reason, we won't oppose this motion today.
0:18:12 > 0:18:14We wanted an altogether fair outcome for everyone affected,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17and we want to learn import`nt lessons to make sure that wd can
0:18:17 > 0:18:19ensure this sort of thing does not happen again,
0:18:19 > 0:18:24and that we, as I say, learn lessons from the situ`tion.
0:18:24 > 0:18:27Mhairi Black recounted her favourite error by Concentrix.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31RS McColl is a corner shop in Scotland that is as common
0:18:31 > 0:18:36as a WHSmith is in England, and yet people were being accused
0:18:36 > 0:18:39of living with this mysterious Mr McColl, because their fl`t
0:18:39 > 0:18:41was above the RS McColl shop.
0:18:41 > 0:18:46And at no point did anyone in Concentrix or HMRC think,
0:18:46 > 0:18:49wait a minute, this Casanov`'s getting about a bit.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51LAUGHTER
0:18:51 > 0:18:52At no point!
0:18:52 > 0:18:57Now, this would almost be very funny...
0:18:57 > 0:18:59This would be funny until you remember that this
0:18:59 > 0:19:00is actually people's lives.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Absolutely. Hear, hear.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04This is their survival we are talking about.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06We have to now legislate so that this is never
0:19:06 > 0:19:08allowed to happen again.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11I think the Government has to bring this kind of thing back in-house,
0:19:11 > 0:19:14because it has got to be back into the day-to-day
0:19:14 > 0:19:16responsibility of Government.
0:19:16 > 0:19:20You can't say to a private company, we want you to make ?1 billhon worth
0:19:20 > 0:19:23of cuts, but we're only going to pay you on a results basis.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26That is a recipe for disastdr.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29MPs have been hearing from the International Trade Secretary,
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Liam Fox, about the landmark European trade deal with Canada
0:19:32 > 0:19:36which was rejected by Belgium's Wallonia region.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39That rejection meant it couldn't go ahead,
0:19:39 > 0:19:42despite the support of the rest of the EU, including the UK.
0:19:42 > 0:19:47At Westminster, the European Scrutiny Committee was parthcularly
0:19:47 > 0:19:50interested in why the UK had backed the deal without the
0:19:50 > 0:19:53say-so of Parliament.
0:19:53 > 0:19:56Can you appreciate why so m`ny people who are not necessarhly
0:19:56 > 0:19:58against this deal, they're just a bit concerned about it,
0:19:58 > 0:20:03find it hard to understand why something that's taken seven years
0:20:03 > 0:20:06to this stage could not be kept waiting for another two or three
0:20:06 > 0:20:09weeks to allow another debate in the House of Commons so that
0:20:09 > 0:20:11Parliament could decide if it is a good deal,
0:20:11 > 0:20:12rather than the Government?
0:20:12 > 0:20:13Yeah, the, erm...
0:20:13 > 0:20:15The different trade agreements have been negotiated
0:20:15 > 0:20:16in very different times.
0:20:16 > 0:20:22Erm, this has been a very long one, despite the fact,
0:20:22 > 0:20:24as the Commissioner said, if you can't do a trade deal
0:20:24 > 0:20:27with Canada, who can you do a trade deal with?
0:20:27 > 0:20:30I think it does point out the difficulty of doing a trade
0:20:30 > 0:20:32deal with a very large number of partners,
0:20:32 > 0:20:34with all of the complications that this brings, both at a national
0:20:34 > 0:20:36and, as we have discovered a subnational level.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39It's still our hope that we can do that.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42It's worth pointing out that NAFTA was agreed in about 14 months.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45It is possible to bring trade deals to fruition
0:20:45 > 0:20:48in a much shorter time, when, first of all, there is very
0:20:48 > 0:20:49high-level energy applied to that,
0:20:49 > 0:20:53and also when there is a cldar agreement about what the colmon
0:20:53 > 0:20:54ground is between the partndrs.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56With respect, Secretary of State, you haven't actually answerdd
0:20:56 > 0:20:59the main point of my question, which is, how do you explain
0:20:59 > 0:21:04to the 17 million people, not including myself, who voted
0:21:04 > 0:21:07to leave because they wanted to restore parliamentary
0:21:07 > 0:21:10sovereignty, as they saw it, and a deal that has taken so long
0:21:10 > 0:21:13to get to this stage couldn't be held up for another few weeks
0:21:13 > 0:21:16to allow parliamentary sovereignty to be exercised?
0:21:16 > 0:21:18Not for me, because I did not vote to ldave
0:21:18 > 0:21:22How do you explain it to 17 million people who thought that by voting
0:21:22 > 0:21:24to leave they were going to enhance parliamentary democracy,
0:21:24 > 0:21:27when a three-week delay is going to scupper a deal that has
0:21:27 > 0:21:28taken seven years to get here?
0:21:28 > 0:21:29We haven't left yet.
0:21:29 > 0:21:33Peter Grant then moved on to TTIP - a trade deal between the EU
0:21:33 > 0:21:35and the United States.
0:21:35 > 0:21:37You'll be aware that one of your predecessors
0:21:37 > 0:21:39in the Government, Anna Soubry, in the House of Commons on
0:21:39 > 0:21:4610 December 2015 gave an assurance to the Chamber about TTIP.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48She said, it is not a secret negotiation.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50It is there for everybody to read on the internet.
0:21:50 > 0:21:53Well, clearly it was not all there for everybody to read
0:21:53 > 0:21:55When it is concluded, it will be for this Chamber
0:21:55 > 0:21:56to ratify it.
0:21:56 > 0:22:01Would you not accept that those words may now be seen by sole
0:22:01 > 0:22:03as being in bad faith, given that a very similar agreement
0:22:03 > 0:22:08with Canada and with the US has been significantly endorsed
0:22:08 > 0:22:11without having come anywhere near the Chamber
0:22:11 > 0:22:12of the House of Commons?
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Well, she was referring to TTIP and we, as you correctly sax,
0:22:15 > 0:22:19have the TTIP reading room and the ability for members to get
0:22:19 > 0:22:22access to classified documents.
0:22:22 > 0:22:27Which, incidentally, I may point out is already `fforded
0:22:27 > 0:22:30to MEPs, which is why I think it's something that should be afforded
0:22:30 > 0:22:33to MPs as well.
0:22:33 > 0:22:34So I think that...
0:22:34 > 0:22:37I don't think she can be taken as being in bad faith,
0:22:37 > 0:22:39when what she promised was ultimately carried out.
0:22:39 > 0:22:40In terms of the ability...
0:22:40 > 0:22:43So it was important if this should happen for TTIP,
0:22:43 > 0:22:45but it didn't matter to apply the same standard
0:22:45 > 0:22:46of scrutiny to CETA?
0:22:46 > 0:22:48We are at a very different stage.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52In terms of TTIP, these negotiations are still fully underway.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55I think it actually is helpful that we have got a process now
0:22:55 > 0:22:58where MPs are able to scruthnise more than we have been
0:22:58 > 0:23:01able to do in previous agreement, including CETA.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04I hope that is an advance that we build upon, and I hope
0:23:04 > 0:23:06it is a precedent that we whll use for further agreements,
0:23:06 > 0:23:09and certainly one that, as Trade Secretary,
0:23:09 > 0:23:12I would like to see as a prdcedent for any future agreements,
0:23:12 > 0:23:15whether still inside the European Union or beyond our
0:23:15 > 0:23:17membership of the European Tnion.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20Is it fair to say that CETA is at so much of a difference stage
0:23:20 > 0:23:23that, for significant parts of CETA, it's now too late?
0:23:23 > 0:23:27That even if Parliament resolves not to support it for some reason,
0:23:27 > 0:23:30the parts that were within ministerial discretion
0:23:30 > 0:23:33to agree or not agree at the EU Council,
0:23:33 > 0:23:36that those horses have gone and at best we can only close
0:23:36 > 0:23:38the stable door and keep sole of the horses back?
0:23:38 > 0:23:44Well, we still have the ability to reject the entire CETA treaty,
0:23:44 > 0:23:45should Parliament wish to do so
0:23:45 > 0:23:47That is the ultimate power of the Parliament has,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50and it's right that it's so.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53The Government has again ruled out plans to commission a new royal
0:23:53 > 0:23:56yacht to help the UK win tr`de deals as the country heads out of the EU.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59The Royal Yacht Britannia was taken out of service
0:23:59 > 0:24:01soon after Tony Blair's Govdrnment won power in 1997.
0:24:01 > 0:24:07No replacement was built.
0:24:07 > 0:24:10Britannia had clocked up ond million miles around the globe
0:24:10 > 0:24:13in her 44-year career.
0:24:13 > 0:24:17The price of a new royal yacht has been put at ?120 million.
0:24:17 > 0:24:22A Conservative member of thd House of Lords spoke up for the concept.
0:24:22 > 0:24:26When I was Secretary of State, I hosted a dinner on the roxal yacht
0:24:26 > 0:24:31in Toronto, and we asked thd top industrialists who flew thotsands
0:24:31 > 0:24:32of miles to be there -
0:24:32 > 0:24:34I didn't think they were coming to see me.
0:24:34 > 0:24:35Now, given that more...
0:24:35 > 0:24:37LAUGHTER
0:24:37 > 0:24:42Given that more than 100 backbench Conservative MPs,
0:24:42 > 0:24:46the present Foreign Secretary, and the past Foreign Secret`ry have
0:24:46 > 0:24:50all expressed support for a privately funded royal yacht,
0:24:50 > 0:24:53will my noble friend not at least agree to spend the money rahsed
0:24:53 > 0:24:56by the Telegraph, the Daily Telegraph,
0:24:56 > 0:24:59on having a privately funded cost-benefit analysis?
0:24:59 > 0:25:01What possible objection could there be to that,
0:25:01 > 0:25:05and for the Government giving its full support?
0:25:05 > 0:25:07My Lords, I am sure my nobld friend underestimate his
0:25:07 > 0:25:08pulling power...
0:25:08 > 0:25:12LAUGHTER
0:25:12 > 0:25:18But if I can say to him that if private enterprise,
0:25:18 > 0:25:21however defined, believes that there is a business case
0:25:21 > 0:25:25for a new royal yacht, we would of course look at that
0:25:25 > 0:25:27But we would still be left with the question of
0:25:27 > 0:25:29who would pay for the vessel.
0:25:29 > 0:25:33Given that no Government department has a need for a royal yacht,
0:25:33 > 0:25:37it's hard to see how any public funding could be justified.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39And that's it for this programme.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41Do join me for our next daily round-up.
0:25:41 > 0:25:45Until then, from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.