0:00:17 > 0:00:20Hello and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24The main news from Westminster: Labour demands a big changing tack
0:00:24 > 0:00:26on funding for social care.
0:00:26 > 0:00:30Why doesn't she do something really bold?
0:00:30 > 0:00:32Cancel the Corporation Tax cut and put the money
0:00:32 > 0:00:34into social care instead?
0:00:34 > 0:00:36Theresa May accuses previous Labour Governments
0:00:36 > 0:00:40of ducking the issue.
0:00:40 > 0:00:4513 years and no action whatsoever.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Also on the programme: The Education Secretary says she's
0:00:48 > 0:00:50introducing a fairer funding system for schools, but Labour says
0:00:50 > 0:00:55disadvantaged areas will lose money.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57That will mean the one-to-one tuition going, it will mean
0:00:57 > 0:01:02the catch-up classes going, it means the extra curricula,
0:01:02 > 0:01:06the drama, the Shakespeare, all those vital things that
0:01:06 > 0:01:09I want to see kids in Moss Side and Moston doing,
0:01:09 > 0:01:12will be going as a result of a funding crisis.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15But first, it was the last Prime Minister's Questions of 2016
0:01:15 > 0:01:18and it certainly got off to a jovial start, with a few jokes
0:01:18 > 0:01:20at the expense of the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Mr Speaker, can I take the opportunity to wish
0:01:22 > 0:01:25you and all the members of the House a merry Christmas
0:01:25 > 0:01:33and a happy New Year.
0:01:33 > 0:01:37Mr Speaker, in the light of the Foreign Secretary's display
0:01:37 > 0:01:42of chronic foot in mouth disease, when deciding on Cabinet positions,
0:01:42 > 0:01:46does the Prime Minister now regret that pencilling "F O" by his name
0:01:46 > 0:01:48should have been an instruction, not a job offer?
0:01:48 > 0:01:53LAUGHTER
0:01:53 > 0:02:01Mr...
0:02:01 > 0:02:04Order!
0:02:04 > 0:02:06There's far too much noise in the chamber.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09We've heard the question, but I want to hear the Prime Minister's answer.
0:02:09 > 0:02:10Prime Minister.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12Thank you, Mr Speaker.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14First of all, I join the honourable gentleman in wishing
0:02:14 > 0:02:18everybody a happy Christmas.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20I will, of course, have an opportunity to do
0:02:20 > 0:02:24that again on Monday, when I'm sure the House will be
0:02:24 > 0:02:28as full for the statement on the European Council meeting.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30Funny, it seems to come from this side, "Yes",
0:02:30 > 0:02:32but not from the Labour side.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34And I have to say that the Foreign Secretary is doing
0:02:34 > 0:02:36an absolutely excellent job.
0:02:36 > 0:02:43He...
0:02:43 > 0:02:48He is, in short, an FFS - a fine Foreign Secretary.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50But it was soon back to serious business,
0:02:50 > 0:02:52with some spirited exchanges about social care for older
0:02:52 > 0:02:55and disabled people.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58The Government is set to allow local councils in England to further
0:02:58 > 0:03:01increase the amount they can raise for social care via council tax
0:03:01 > 0:03:04- what's known as a social care precept.
0:03:04 > 0:03:09But the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn thought there was another way.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11The Prime Minister doesn't seem to be aware that 4.6
0:03:11 > 0:03:14billion was cut from the social care budget in the last
0:03:14 > 0:03:15parliament.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18And that her talk of putting it into local Government
0:03:18 > 0:03:21ought to be taken for what it is, a con.
0:03:21 > 0:03:272% of council tax is clearly nonsense.
0:03:27 > 0:03:3095% of councils use this social care precept and it raised
0:03:30 > 0:03:33less than 3% of the money they planned to spend on adult social
0:03:33 > 0:03:36care.
0:03:36 > 0:03:45Billions seem to be available for tax giveaways to corporations,
0:03:45 > 0:03:47not mentioned in the Autumn Statement, underfunded and many
0:03:47 > 0:03:50elderly people left isolated and in crisis because of the lack of
0:03:50 > 0:03:54Government funding of social care.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57We see many councils around the country that have taken
0:03:57 > 0:04:01the benefit of the social care precept and have,
0:04:01 > 0:04:04as a result, actually seen more people being able to access social
0:04:04 > 0:04:05care and needs being met.
0:04:05 > 0:04:07Sadly, there are also some councils across
0:04:07 > 0:04:11the country, some Labour councils, who haven't taken that opportunity,
0:04:11 > 0:04:14where we do see a worse performance in relation to social care.
0:04:14 > 0:04:16But the Right Honourable gentleman once
0:04:16 > 0:04:18again refers to the issue of money.
0:04:18 > 0:04:23I might remind him that at the last election,
0:04:23 > 0:04:25the then Shadow Chancellor said if Labour were in Government,
0:04:25 > 0:04:29there would be not a penny more for local authorities.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33And also that when recently asked about...
0:04:33 > 0:04:35When recently asked about spending more
0:04:35 > 0:04:37money on social care, the Labour Shadow Health
0:04:37 > 0:04:45Secretary said, when
0:04:45 > 0:04:48he was asked where the money would come from, he said, "Ooh, well,
0:04:48 > 0:04:51"we're going to have to come up with a plan for that."
0:04:51 > 0:04:53Jeremy Corbyn said the impact of raising council tax
0:04:53 > 0:04:54vary across the country.
0:04:54 > 0:04:55For example, if you raise the council
0:04:55 > 0:04:58tax in Windsor and Maidenhead, you get quite a lot of money.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00If you raise the council tax precept in
0:05:00 > 0:05:04Liverpool or Newcastle, you get a lot less.
0:05:04 > 0:05:08Is she saying that older people, frail, elderly, vulnerable
0:05:08 > 0:05:11people are less valuable in our big cities than they are in wealthier
0:05:11 > 0:05:13parts of the country?
0:05:13 > 0:05:15The crisis affects individuals, it affects
0:05:15 > 0:05:19families and it affects the National Health Service.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22So why doesn't she do something really bold?
0:05:22 > 0:05:24Cancel the corporation tax cut and put the
0:05:24 > 0:05:30money into social care instead?
0:05:30 > 0:05:32Well, the Right Honourable gentleman has quoted
0:05:32 > 0:05:33Newcastle Council in the
0:05:33 > 0:05:35list that he said there.
0:05:35 > 0:05:39I have to say, Newcastle Council is one of the
0:05:39 > 0:05:41councils where we saw in September virtually no delayed discharges.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44So elderly people were not being held
0:05:44 > 0:05:47up in hospital when they didn't need to be and when they didn't want to
0:05:47 > 0:05:48be.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51So what this shows is that it is possible
0:05:51 > 0:05:52for councils to deliver on
0:05:52 > 0:05:55the ground.
0:05:55 > 0:06:00Councils work very hard to try to cope with a 40% cut in
0:06:00 > 0:06:05their budgets across the whole country and the people who pay the
0:06:05 > 0:06:08price are those who are stuck in hospital who should be allowed to go
0:06:08 > 0:06:11home and those who aren't getting the care and support they need.
0:06:11 > 0:06:13This is a social care system that is deep
0:06:13 > 0:06:14in crisis.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18The crisis is made in Downing Street by this Government.
0:06:18 > 0:06:24This social care crisis forces people to give up work, to care for
0:06:24 > 0:06:26loved ones, because there isn't the system to do it.
0:06:26 > 0:06:31It makes people stay in hospital longer than they
0:06:31 > 0:06:33should and leads people into a horrible, isolated life, when they
0:06:33 > 0:06:37should be cared for by all of us through a properly funded social
0:06:37 > 0:06:38care system.
0:06:38 > 0:06:44Get a grip and fund it properly, please.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48The issue of social care is indeed one that has
0:06:48 > 0:06:50been ducked by governments for too long.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53That is why it is this Government...
0:06:53 > 0:06:55It is this Government that will provide a long-term,
0:06:55 > 0:07:01sustainable system for social care that gives reassurance to people.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05But when he talks about governments ducking social care, let's look at
0:07:05 > 0:07:11that 13 years of Labour in Government.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13They said...
0:07:13 > 0:07:15In 1997, they said they'd sort it in their
0:07:16 > 0:07:18manifesto.
0:07:18 > 0:07:23They had a royal commission in 1999.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26A Green paper in 2005.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29The Wanless report in 2006.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32In 2007, in the CSR, they said they'd sort it.
0:07:32 > 0:07:42In 2009, they had another green paper.
0:07:43 > 0:07:4613 years and no action whatsoever.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49Time now to catch up on the latest twists and turns of Brexit.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51David Davis, the Brexit secretary, had his
0:07:51 > 0:07:53first appearance in front of the committee
0:07:53 > 0:07:54set up to investigate the
0:07:54 > 0:07:57UK's exit from the EU.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Now, the Chancellor said on Monday there is an
0:08:00 > 0:08:02emerging view amongst business regulators and thoughtful
0:08:02 > 0:08:05politicians that it would be generally helpful to have a longer
0:08:05 > 0:08:08period to manage the adjustment as we leave the European Union.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11Can we classify you as a thoughtful politician when it comes to
0:08:11 > 0:08:14transitional arrangements?
0:08:14 > 0:08:20Well, I am not sure about the second qualification.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22I am hopeful that you can classify me as a thoughtful
0:08:22 > 0:08:23politician in that context.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Let me be clear about where I think we are
0:08:26 > 0:08:27going.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31Firstly, as the Prime Minister has said a number of times
0:08:31 > 0:08:35and I have said a number of times, what we're after is a smooth and
0:08:35 > 0:08:38orderly exit - that is the overarching aim.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40People get frustrated with us sticking to overarching aims,
0:08:40 > 0:08:43but the point is that is what we are trying to do.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46That is the purpose or at least part of the tactic and
0:08:46 > 0:08:48strategy.
0:08:48 > 0:08:53And within that box, we want to get the maximum market
0:08:53 > 0:08:56access for British companies with the minimum of disruption, and so we
0:08:56 > 0:09:05will do what is necessary to that aim.
0:09:05 > 0:09:10What if all of those things can't be negotiated within the...
0:09:10 > 0:09:15It could be 18 months, depending on...?
0:09:15 > 0:09:18Well, it has been said it will be 18 months and I think
0:09:18 > 0:09:20that it is all negotiable in that time.
0:09:20 > 0:09:22That is the sort of core of this, really.
0:09:22 > 0:09:26We have got a lot to do, but that is one of the
0:09:26 > 0:09:27reasons.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29You may have thought perhaps my opening answer was that was not
0:09:29 > 0:09:32that helpful, but it is one of the reasons
0:09:32 > 0:09:33we are taking our time to
0:09:33 > 0:09:34get prepared on all fronts.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37That is why our 57 studies cover 85% of the
0:09:37 > 0:09:38economy.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40Everything except sectors that are not affected by
0:09:40 > 0:09:41international trade.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44So we are aiming to get ourselves into a
0:09:44 > 0:09:50position where we can negotiate within the article 50 process.
0:09:50 > 0:09:51After all, the article 50 process
0:09:51 > 0:09:54was written to allow departure from the European Union.
0:09:54 > 0:10:00That is its purpose and plainly the architects of
0:10:00 > 0:10:02it, the authors of it, thought that it was time
0:10:02 > 0:10:03enough to do the job.
0:10:03 > 0:10:05You are watching Wednesday in Parliament
0:10:05 > 0:10:06with me, Christina Cooper.
0:10:06 > 0:10:07Labour MPs have criticised plans for a
0:10:07 > 0:10:10shake-up in the way state schools in England are funded.
0:10:10 > 0:10:20The Government wants to introduce a new formula
0:10:20 > 0:10:22that places greater emphasis on factors such as sparsity of
0:10:22 > 0:10:23population when allocating funds.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26Our school funding system, as it exists today, is unfair, it is
0:10:26 > 0:10:27opaque, and it is outdated.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29The reality is that patchy and inconsistent decisions
0:10:29 > 0:10:31on funding have built up over many years on
0:10:31 > 0:10:37data that is sometimes a decade or more out of date.
0:10:37 > 0:10:42She outlined how the new formula would work.
0:10:42 > 0:10:47We are proposing to protect resources for
0:10:47 > 0:10:50pupils who come from disadvantaged families and are taking a broad view
0:10:50 > 0:10:51to target ?3 billion annually of funding
0:10:52 > 0:11:00most in need of support.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02Our formula will prioritise not only children in
0:11:02 > 0:11:05receipt of free school meals but also those who live in areas of
0:11:05 > 0:11:08disadvantage, helping to support many more families who are most
0:11:08 > 0:11:10likely to be just about managing to get by.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12We will also protect those small, rural schools which are so
0:11:12 > 0:11:15important for their local communities by inclusion of a
0:11:15 > 0:11:19sparsity factor.
0:11:19 > 0:11:24Thirdly, alongside a basic amount and an uplift for
0:11:24 > 0:11:30disadvantage, we will be directing ?2.4 billion per year in funding
0:11:30 > 0:11:33towards pupils with low prior attainment at both primary and
0:11:33 > 0:11:34secondary schools.
0:11:34 > 0:11:38Can the Secretary of State tell the house how exactly
0:11:38 > 0:11:41a funding formula can be fair when it means that a third of local
0:11:41 > 0:11:43authorities and around 10,000 schools serving over 2 million
0:11:43 > 0:11:47children will be losing money?
0:11:47 > 0:11:49In a period where pupil numbers and inflation
0:11:49 > 0:11:51is rising in tandem, the
0:11:51 > 0:11:59pressure on school budgets will continue to increase.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01In a constituency like mine, which is a
0:12:01 > 0:12:03loser under this formula, where I have over 50%
0:12:03 > 0:12:04of children living in
0:12:04 > 0:12:07poverty, the second-highest constituency in the entire country
0:12:07 > 0:12:09losing money to their school budgets, that will mean the
0:12:09 > 0:12:18one-to-one tuition going, it means the catch-up classes going,
0:12:18 > 0:12:24it means the extracurricula, the drama,
0:12:24 > 0:12:31the Shakespeare, all of those vital things that I want to see kids
0:12:31 > 0:12:35in Moss Side and Moston doing will be going as a result of her funding
0:12:35 > 0:12:36crisis and this announcement today.
0:12:36 > 0:12:38The concern in Liverpool will be the coming on top
0:12:38 > 0:12:39of substantial cuts to
0:12:39 > 0:12:41local Government funding - our schools will lose
0:12:41 > 0:12:42out at a time when they
0:12:42 > 0:12:48are finding it challenging to recruit teachers and head teachers.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51She is dressing it up very well, but isn't the reality
0:12:51 > 0:12:53of what the Secretary of State
0:12:53 > 0:12:59announcing today is that some of the schools in the most deprived
0:12:59 > 0:13:02parts of the country facing the biggest
0:13:02 > 0:13:05challenges are going to see money taken away from them and that money
0:13:05 > 0:13:06given to other schools elsewhere?
0:13:06 > 0:13:08Wouldn't it be much fairer for her to have
0:13:08 > 0:13:09gone to the Chancellor and
0:13:09 > 0:13:12said have some more money to bring the gap up that way.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14Instead, what she is making is that teachers will
0:13:14 > 0:13:17become redundant to pay for this change.
0:13:17 > 0:13:18Indisputable, absolutely indisputable, that school overheads
0:13:18 > 0:13:21are going up and more secondary schools are going to go into debt.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23Why are we continuing to squander money on pointless pet
0:13:24 > 0:13:25projects and restructuring?
0:13:25 > 0:13:26Surely it is a huge diversion now?
0:13:26 > 0:13:28We have seen year-on-year improvements in the education
0:13:28 > 0:13:31system, as one of my predecessors said on the Today Programme
0:13:31 > 0:13:33earlier this week.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37I do think it's important we continue the reforms we have
0:13:37 > 0:13:41already got under way and that's precisely what we are doing.
0:13:41 > 0:13:43A Conservative supported the new formula.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46Does the Secretary of State agree with me that it starts to address
0:13:46 > 0:13:48the myth that constituencies like Cheltenham and Gloucestershire
0:13:48 > 0:13:49do not have areas of deprivation?
0:13:49 > 0:13:52The reality is that Cheltenham has intense urban challenges and this
0:13:52 > 0:13:54starts to address funding on the basis of need
0:13:54 > 0:13:56and not postcode.
0:13:56 > 0:13:57I strongly agree with him.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00I think that up until now, school funding has been the ultimate
0:14:00 > 0:14:05postcode lottery and funding is really overly being determined
0:14:05 > 0:14:07by where children are growing up.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10That's completely unacceptable.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12If we're really going to make Britain, and in this
0:14:12 > 0:14:15case schools in England, a country where all schools can
0:14:15 > 0:14:21progress, we have to get on with the reform.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23progress, we have to get on with fair funding.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25Staying with education matters, the Lords has been discussing
0:14:25 > 0:14:28a proposal to enable 10,000 children from low-income families to attend
0:14:28 > 0:14:29private schools in England.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31The idea has been mooted by the Independent schools Council
0:14:31 > 0:14:34The idea has been mooted by the Independent Schools Council
0:14:34 > 0:14:35in response to a Government consultation on the
0:14:35 > 0:14:36future of education.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38The council says that if the Government pays
0:14:38 > 0:14:41around ?5,000 a year, the cost of a state school
0:14:41 > 0:14:42place, private schools would cover the rest.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45My Lords, we welcome the positive way which the Independent Schools
0:14:45 > 0:14:48Council has responded to the consultation document
0:14:48 > 0:14:52Schools That Work For Everyone by putting forward a number
0:14:52 > 0:14:54of proposals for ways in which the independent school
0:14:54 > 0:14:59sector can achieve the aim of improving access to families
0:14:59 > 0:15:00at a good school places.
0:15:00 > 0:15:05The consultation period closed on Monday this week
0:15:05 > 0:15:08and we are considering all responses received and will be publishing our
0:15:08 > 0:15:09response in due course.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12My Lords, I declare my interest as a former general secretary
0:15:12 > 0:15:14of the Independent Schools Council and current president
0:15:14 > 0:15:15of the Independent Schools Association,
0:15:15 > 0:15:20one of the Council's constituent bodies.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23Has my noble friend noted that the proposals contain plans
0:15:23 > 0:15:29that are specifically designed to assist social mobility
0:15:29 > 0:15:34by providing large numbers of new places across the age range
0:15:34 > 0:15:40based on need and need alone at no extra cost to the Government?
0:15:40 > 0:15:43So this is not a repetition of the assisted places scheme.
0:15:43 > 0:15:49I wonder if the minister realises how unrealistic this is for areas
0:15:49 > 0:15:52like the north-east and given that that is one of the prime areas
0:15:52 > 0:15:55where there needs to be both improvement in education outcomes
0:15:55 > 0:16:01and in social mobility, it really isn't going to make much effect.
0:16:01 > 0:16:06We have very few independent schools in the north-east.
0:16:06 > 0:16:13That's for history reasons, because there's never been enough
0:16:13 > 0:16:15money around to support them, and on that basis, will the Minister
0:16:15 > 0:16:22make sure that this is not seen as a realistic way of addressing
0:16:22 > 0:16:27what is a very important issue in our part of the country?
0:16:27 > 0:16:29I agree entirely with the noble lady's comments about the education
0:16:29 > 0:16:33issues in the north-east and, of course, this isn't a panacea.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Only 7% of the population are educated in private schools
0:16:37 > 0:16:40and they are predominantly in the south of England, so,
0:16:40 > 0:16:44as I say, our proposals will have to be practical.
0:16:44 > 0:16:49as I say, our proposals will have to be practicable.
0:16:49 > 0:16:53What this reveals is the cost of educating a pupil in the state
0:16:53 > 0:16:53sector is about ?5,500.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55Meanwhile, the average cost of private school fees
0:16:55 > 0:16:58is about three times that, which I think is very revealing
0:16:58 > 0:17:01in terms of the different offers to children in the different sectors.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04But will the Minister say if he knows whether or not this
0:17:04 > 0:17:14offer would be conditional on selection tests being operated
0:17:14 > 0:17:16to see who would be able to take up those places?
0:17:16 > 0:17:19Because if that happened, would he not agree with me that
0:17:19 > 0:17:22what would be not so much poor children per se were helped,
0:17:22 > 0:17:24that already bright children themselves were helped to achieve
0:17:24 > 0:17:27what they would very likely have achieved in the state sector anyway?
0:17:27 > 0:17:30Would he agree that if selection is to be involved in this offer,
0:17:30 > 0:17:32then the Government should not accept it?
0:17:32 > 0:17:34Well, there are a range of proposals being submitted under
0:17:34 > 0:17:35the consultation document.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38Some will involve selection and some won't and we will look at them
0:17:38 > 0:17:44all before we designed the final proposals more carefully.
0:17:44 > 0:17:47Now, last month, there was a brief walk-out by prison officers
0:17:47 > 0:17:50in protest at the escalating violence in jails in England.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53On that day, the Justice Committee had been due to hear from governors
0:17:53 > 0:17:56of the six reform prisons who have been given greater control
0:17:56 > 0:17:57over their affairs.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59That session had to be cancelled because of the walk-out,
0:17:59 > 0:18:01but this time they finally made it.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04And they reckoned they had a good news story to tell.
0:18:04 > 0:18:11We are in the process, for example, of fitting 494 grilles to windows
0:18:11 > 0:18:14as a deterrent to drones, smuggling of drugs,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17and actually to ensure that rubbish isn't thrown out of the windows.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20We want a decent environment.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22This is a healthy prison and it starts with having
0:18:22 > 0:18:24a clean environment, where staff and prisoners
0:18:24 > 0:18:26feel better themselves.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28So we've done a whole range of things.
0:18:28 > 0:18:33Some of the technical stuff right through to the relationship issues,
0:18:33 > 0:18:35and I think we've seen...
0:18:35 > 0:18:38I mean, I've looked at some of the figures for violence, etc,
0:18:38 > 0:18:43etc, and we appear to be doing- early days- but we appear
0:18:43 > 0:18:45but we appear to be doing better.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48Would you say the way the Government characterises this as the biggest
0:18:48 > 0:18:51shake-up since the Victorian era is really how it feels in terms
0:18:51 > 0:18:53of the way your rules have changed?
0:18:53 > 0:18:54I mean, again...
0:18:54 > 0:18:57So there is something really fundamental happening
0:18:57 > 0:19:00in the way we run our presence that is different to how
0:19:00 > 0:19:06in the way we run our prisons that is different to how
0:19:06 > 0:19:09we have run them, I mean, all the time I have been associated.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11You've got well over 100 years of prison experience in front
0:19:11 > 0:19:14of you this morning and this is feeling significantly different
0:19:14 > 0:19:16in terms of how we are operating.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18The biggest single difference at the moment is not having
0:19:18 > 0:19:21the sense of the line manager telling us what to do and shaping
0:19:21 > 0:19:24how we are behaving, so that is kind of significantly different.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26Prison officers have gone from being something
0:19:26 > 0:19:27which is prestigious, professionalised to almost
0:19:27 > 0:19:30de-skilled and infantalised.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33I exaggerate to make the point.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36Do you think that you're going to be in a position to bring back,
0:19:36 > 0:19:37restore the professional pride,
0:19:37 > 0:19:40so that people can say I can have professional career development
0:19:40 > 0:19:43and I'm going to go places, I'm going to become a proper skilled
0:19:43 > 0:19:44professional in my own right?
0:19:44 > 0:19:46Is this going to help you do that?
0:19:46 > 0:19:49So that is fundamentally an aim of what we are trying to do.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53I mean if, in terms of her prison officers have been seen in the past,
0:19:53 > 0:19:56I mean if, in terms of how prison officers have been seen in the past,
0:19:56 > 0:19:59I'm not sure they have ever have the respect they deserved,
0:19:59 > 0:20:02at any time, in the time that I have been...
0:20:02 > 0:20:04They never get mentioned in the same way, for example,
0:20:04 > 0:20:05alongside nurses, police officers.
0:20:05 > 0:20:06That's true.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08Nobody thinks about the fact that there will be thousands
0:20:08 > 0:20:10of prison officers working on Christmas Day.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12They will talk about nurses, they'll talk about police,
0:20:12 > 0:20:14but they won't talk about prison officers.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17So I'm not sure they've ever had the respect they deserve
0:20:17 > 0:20:18for the work that they do.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20Prison officers will say they don't want to be locking
0:20:20 > 0:20:22locking and unlocking, doing exercise, taking
0:20:22 > 0:20:23prisoners to education,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26coming back again and repeating the same stuff in the afternoon.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28They will absolutely say to you, I think without fail,
0:20:28 > 0:20:31that they want to be able to engage effectively to help people.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34Again, we all have our little nuances, I'm sure.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37My sense of success for us will be when I see prison officers sitting
0:20:37 > 0:20:40on the end of beds helping men read and write letters and then
0:20:40 > 0:20:42encouraging them to go into education because there
0:20:42 > 0:20:44is a need there that they've identified.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46My guys simply don't have time to do that work right now.
0:20:46 > 0:20:49I don't think we've ever had such a positive session on prisons.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51Your enthusiasm is striking and I think slightly surprising
0:20:51 > 0:20:55for the committee to hear.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58To go back to challenges, I am sorry, for a minute,
0:20:58 > 0:21:04do you feel that the new freedoms you have are actually
0:21:04 > 0:21:05helping you with staff relations, for example?
0:21:05 > 0:21:07Can we deal with that first?
0:21:07 > 0:21:10Particularly as you couldn't come last time because of a quite major
0:21:10 > 0:21:15staff relations issue.
0:21:15 > 0:21:18If you're a member of staff walking along on A Wing today, would
0:21:19 > 0:21:20you feel significantly different?
0:21:20 > 0:21:21Well, staff facilities have improved a little bit,
0:21:21 > 0:21:23we've invested in wellbeing, with talked about training,
0:21:23 > 0:21:25we've invested in wellbeing, we've talked about training,
0:21:25 > 0:21:27we talk about recruitment, we talk about what the
0:21:27 > 0:21:28regime will look like.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30But fundamentally, it still feels pretty similar at Wandsworth.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33It's probably safer, is less violent, there's lest drugs around,
0:21:33 > 0:21:35It's probably safer, is less violent, there's less drugs around,
0:21:35 > 0:21:38but fundamentally as a prison officer, you don't see colleagues...
0:21:38 > 0:21:41There is that slowness, but it's been since the 1st of July,
0:21:41 > 0:21:44so there is that transition to have to make here.
0:21:44 > 0:21:46Of course, the really important outcomes around reducing reoffending
0:21:46 > 0:21:49back in the community and doing that through improved outcomes around
0:21:49 > 0:21:52housing and employment, those are going to take longer.
0:21:52 > 0:21:56We would expect to see difference within a couple of years in those
0:21:56 > 0:22:00outcomes and much more immediately in terms of the impact,
0:22:00 > 0:22:05so more education, more work, more time out and therefore less
0:22:05 > 0:22:08violence, less drugs, those are the things we need to see
0:22:08 > 0:22:12much more quickly in a matter of weeks and months.
0:22:12 > 0:22:14Bringing the session to a close, the committee chairman,
0:22:14 > 0:22:17the Conservative Bob Neill, wished the witnesses luck
0:22:17 > 0:22:21in their role as trailblazers for the new regime.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23Now, the United States is going to limit arms sales
0:22:23 > 0:22:26to Saudi Arabia over concerns about civilian casualties
0:22:26 > 0:22:29during the conflict in Yemen.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32Saudi Arabia is conducting air strikes in Yemen in a bid to help
0:22:32 > 0:22:33the Government put down a rebellion.
0:22:33 > 0:22:36The SNP leader at Westminster is putting pressure on the UK
0:22:36 > 0:22:39Government to follow the American lead.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43The US Government has just said that, and I quote,
0:22:43 > 0:22:48"Systematic endemic problems in Saudi Arabia's targeting drove
0:22:48 > 0:22:54the US decision to hold a future weapons sale
0:22:54 > 0:22:57the US decision to halt a future weapons sale
0:22:57 > 0:22:58involving precision-guided munitions."
0:22:58 > 0:23:00The Saudis have UK-supplied precision-guided Paveway 4 missiles.
0:23:00 > 0:23:01They're made in Scotland.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05The UK has licensed ?3.3 billion worth of arms to Saudi Arabia
0:23:05 > 0:23:09since the beginning of the bombing campaign.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12What will it take for the UK to adopt an ethical foreign policy
0:23:12 > 0:23:16when it comes to Yemen?
0:23:16 > 0:23:19Well, as the Right Honourable Gentleman knows,
0:23:19 > 0:23:21the intervention in the UN...
0:23:21 > 0:23:25..in Yemen is a UN-backed intervention.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28As I've said previously, where there are allegations
0:23:28 > 0:23:30of breaches of international humanitarian law, then we require
0:23:30 > 0:23:33those to be properly investigated.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37We do have a relationship with Saudi Arabia, the security
0:23:37 > 0:23:40of the Gulf is important to us and I would simply also remind
0:23:40 > 0:23:45the Honourable Gentleman that, actually, Saudi intelligence,
0:23:45 > 0:23:47the counter-terrorism links we have from Saudi Arabia,
0:23:47 > 0:23:52the intelligence we get from Saudi Arabia has saved
0:23:52 > 0:23:54potentially hundreds of lives here in the UK.
0:23:54 > 0:23:58Now, as a turbulent year draws to a close, the late MP Jo Cox
0:23:58 > 0:24:01is very much in the thoughts of her colleagues.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04This coming Friday is exactly six months since the Labour MP
0:24:04 > 0:24:05was murdered in her constituency.
0:24:05 > 0:24:09As a tribute to Jo Cox, the Parliamentary rock band MP4,
0:24:09 > 0:24:12along with several pop stars, have released a single.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14It's a cover of the Rolling Stones' song You Can't Always
0:24:14 > 0:24:16Get What You Want.
0:24:16 > 0:24:20Proceeds from the download will go to the Jo Cox Foundation.
0:24:20 > 0:24:24Sadly, Mr Speaker, our late colleague Jo Cox will not be
0:24:24 > 0:24:26celebrating Christmas this year with her family.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29She was murdered and taken from us.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32So I hope the Prime Minister, I'm sure she will, will join me
0:24:32 > 0:24:36in encouraging people to download the song, which many
0:24:36 > 0:24:39members helped to create, as a tribute to Jo's life and work
0:24:39 > 0:24:44and in everlasting memory of her.
0:24:44 > 0:24:46Well, The Right Honourable gentleman is absolutely right
0:24:46 > 0:24:50to raise this issue.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53I'm sure everybody in this House wishes to send a very clear message
0:24:53 > 0:24:54to download this signal...
0:24:54 > 0:24:55this single for the Jo Cox Foundation.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58It's a very important cause and we all recognise that Jo Cox
0:24:58 > 0:25:01was a fine member of this House and would have carried
0:25:01 > 0:25:05on contributing significantly to this House and to this country
0:25:05 > 0:25:08had she not been brutally murdered.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11It's right, I think the Chancellor is waiving the VAT on the single,
0:25:11 > 0:25:13I think everybody involved in it has in fact given their
0:25:13 > 0:25:15services for free.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18I'm having a photograph with MP4 later this afternoon.
0:25:18 > 0:25:22Peter Wishart is a member of MP4.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24LAUGHTER
0:25:24 > 0:25:27And...
0:25:27 > 0:25:30And once again, once again, let's just encourage everybody
0:25:30 > 0:25:32to download this single.
0:25:32 > 0:25:38There were rave reviews from the Speaker, who called MP
0:25:38 > 0:25:39for "An outstanding band".
0:25:39 > 0:25:42Well, that's it from Wednesday in Parliament, but do join me
0:25:42 > 0:25:44at the same time tomorrow for another round-up
0:25:44 > 0:25:45of the news from Westminster.
0:25:45 > 0:25:50Until then, from me, Christina Cooper, goodbye.