0:00:18 > 0:00:21Hello and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24Coming up on this programme:
0:00:24 > 0:00:26Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn trade blows over the state
0:00:26 > 0:00:28of the NHS in England.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31The Governor of the Bank of England says Brexit is no
0:00:31 > 0:00:34longer the biggest risk to the UK's financial stability.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37And ministers are urged to do more to help the victims
0:00:37 > 0:00:38of modern slavery.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42It is thought by the police there are probably 10,000 people
0:00:42 > 0:00:46in a year who are victims, and 30 convictions.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49But first, at Prime Minister's Questions, Theresa May defended
0:00:49 > 0:00:52the Government's handling of England's NHS as Jeremy Corbyn
0:00:52 > 0:00:54accused her of being in denial over the pressures facing
0:00:55 > 0:00:58the health service.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01Nearly a quarter of patients waited longer than four
0:01:01 > 0:01:04hours in A last week, with just one hospital
0:01:04 > 0:01:06hitting its target.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10And huge numbers also faced long waits for a bed when A staff
0:01:10 > 0:01:13admitted them into hospital as emergency cases, with more
0:01:13 > 0:01:18than 18,000 trolley waits of more than four hours or more.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21The figures come from the document compiled by NHS Improvement,
0:01:21 > 0:01:25one of the regulators in England, and show that this winter is proving
0:01:25 > 0:01:28to be the most difficult in more than a decade.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Jeremy Corbyn picked up on those figures and recent
0:01:31 > 0:01:33comments by the Red Cross.
0:01:33 > 0:01:38Last week, Mr Speaker, 485 people in England spent more
0:01:38 > 0:01:42than 12 hours on trolleys in hospital corridors.
0:01:42 > 0:01:47The Red Cross described this as a humanitarian crisis.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50I called on the Prime Minister to come to Parliament on Monday -
0:01:50 > 0:01:53she didn't, she sent the Health Secretary.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56But does she agree with him that the best way to solve
0:01:56 > 0:02:01the crisis of the four-hour wait is to fiddle the figures so that
0:02:01 > 0:02:03people are not seen to be waiting so long
0:02:03 > 0:02:05on trolleys in NHS hospitals?
0:02:05 > 0:02:08He talks about the pressures on the NHS and we acknowledge
0:02:08 > 0:02:12that there are pressures on the National Health Service.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15There are always extra pressures on the NHS during the winter,
0:02:15 > 0:02:19but of course we have at the moment those added pressures of the ageing
0:02:19 > 0:02:23population and the growing, complex needs of the population.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26He also refers to the British Red Cross' term
0:02:26 > 0:02:28of a humanitarian crisis.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32I have to say to him that I think we've all seen humanitarian crises
0:02:32 > 0:02:35around the world and to use that description of a National Health
0:02:35 > 0:02:37Service which last year saw 2.5 million more people treated
0:02:37 > 0:02:47in A than six years ago was irresponsible and overblown.
0:02:50 > 0:02:54Mr Speaker, she seems to be in some degree of denial about this
0:02:54 > 0:02:59and won't listen to professional organisations who have
0:02:59 > 0:03:04spent their whole lifetime doing their best for the NHS.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08Can I ask her if she'll listen to Sian, who works for the NHS?
0:03:08 > 0:03:11She has a 22-month-old nephew.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14He went into hospital, there was no bed, he was treated
0:03:14 > 0:03:18on two plastic chairs pushed together with a blanket.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21She says one of the nurses told her sister, it's
0:03:21 > 0:03:22always like this nowadays.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24She asked a question to all of us.
0:03:24 > 0:03:29Surely we should strive to do better than this.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31Does the Prime Minister and the Health Secretary think this
0:03:31 > 0:03:38is an acceptable way of treating a 22-month-old child needing help?
0:03:38 > 0:03:47I accept there have been a small number of incidents...
0:03:47 > 0:03:51..where unacceptable practices have taken place.
0:03:51 > 0:03:55But what matters, we don't want those things to happen,
0:03:55 > 0:03:58but what matters is how you then deal with them.
0:03:58 > 0:04:02That's why it's so important that the NHS does look into issues
0:04:02 > 0:04:05where there are unacceptable incidents that have taken place
0:04:05 > 0:04:11and then learns lessons from them.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13She highlighted the pressures the service was facing.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15Over the Christmas period, in the Tuesday after Christmas,
0:04:15 > 0:04:18we saw the busiest day ever in the National Health Service.
0:04:18 > 0:04:24Over the few weeks around Christmas, we saw a day when more people
0:04:24 > 0:04:30were treated in A within four hours than had ever happened before.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34This is the reality of our National Health Service.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36Jeremy Corbyn pressed on, attacking the Government's record
0:04:36 > 0:04:37on mental health and social care.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40Earlier this week, the Prime Minister said she wanted
0:04:40 > 0:04:43to create a shared society.
0:04:43 > 0:04:44We've certainly got that.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48More people sharing hospital corridors on trolleys.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52More people sharing waiting areas at A departments.
0:04:52 > 0:04:58More people sharing in anxiety created by this Government.
0:04:58 > 0:05:04Our NHS, Mr Speaker, is in crisis, but the Prime Minister is in denial.
0:05:04 > 0:05:08Can I suggest to her, on the economic question,
0:05:08 > 0:05:12cancel the corporate tax cuts, spend the money where it's needed -
0:05:12 > 0:05:21on people in desperate need in social care or in our hospitals.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23The right honourable gentleman talks about crisis.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25I suggest he listens to the honourable member
0:05:25 > 0:05:27for Don Valley, a former Labour Health Minister, who
0:05:28 > 0:05:30said the following.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33"With Labour, it's always about crisis.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36"The NHS is on its knees, we've got to be a bit more
0:05:36 > 0:05:40"grown-up about this."
0:05:40 > 0:05:42He talks to me about corporation tax and restoring the cuts
0:05:42 > 0:05:45in corporation tax.
0:05:45 > 0:05:50The Labour Party has already spent that money eight times.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54The last thing the NHS needs is a cheque from Labour that bounces.
0:05:54 > 0:05:56The only way we can ensure we've got funding
0:05:56 > 0:05:59for the National Health Service is a strong economy.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02Yesterday, the right honourable gentleman proved that he's
0:06:02 > 0:06:05not only incompetent, but that he would destroy
0:06:05 > 0:06:09our economy and that would devastate
0:06:09 > 0:06:10our National Health Service.
0:06:10 > 0:06:12A reference there to Jeremy Corbyn's comments the previous day
0:06:12 > 0:06:17on immigration and earnings limits.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20Later in the day, the head of the NHS in England,
0:06:20 > 0:06:24Sir Simon Stevens, told MPs that funding would be highly constrained
0:06:24 > 0:06:27over the next three years and that spending per person in real terms
0:06:27 > 0:06:29would reduce in England.
0:06:29 > 0:06:34He was asked if NHS England had got the money it had asked for.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37The Government is repeatedly telling us, I've had letters recently
0:06:37 > 0:06:39from the Secretary of State, that the NHS is getting more
0:06:39 > 0:06:41money than it asks for.
0:06:41 > 0:06:46What's your view on that?
0:06:46 > 0:06:53Well, it's right that by 2020 NHS England will be getting an extra
0:06:53 > 0:06:58?10 billion over the course of six years.
0:06:58 > 0:07:02I don't think that's the same as saying we're getting more
0:07:02 > 0:07:05than we asked for over five years because it was a five-year forward
0:07:05 > 0:07:07view, not a six-year forward view.
0:07:07 > 0:07:12Over and above that, we've been through a spending review
0:07:12 > 0:07:15negotiation in the meantime and that has set the NHS budget
0:07:15 > 0:07:18for the next three years.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21It's a matter of fact, it's not news, I've said it
0:07:21 > 0:07:25previously to a select committee back in October, that like probably
0:07:25 > 0:07:28every part of the public service we got less than we asked
0:07:28 > 0:07:32for in that process.
0:07:32 > 0:07:34I think it would be stretching it to say
0:07:34 > 0:07:37that the NHS has got more than it asked for.
0:07:38 > 0:07:39OK.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43Would you agree there's not enough money and there is a clear gap?
0:07:43 > 0:07:46There are clearly very substantial pressures and I don't think it
0:07:46 > 0:07:50helps anybody to try and pretend there aren't.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53But that's not a new phenomenon, to some extent, it's
0:07:53 > 0:07:55a phenomenon that's intensifying.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58In the here and now, there are very real pressures.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01Over the next three years, funding is going to be highly
0:08:01 > 0:08:05constrained and in 2018-19, as I previously said in October,
0:08:05 > 0:08:10real terms NHS spending per person in England is going to go down,
0:08:10 > 0:08:12ten years after Lehmann Brothers and austerity began.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15We all understand why that is, but let's not pretend that's not
0:08:15 > 0:08:17placing huge pressure on the service.
0:08:17 > 0:08:19You're watching Wednesday in Parliament with me,
0:08:19 > 0:08:21Alicia McCarthy.
0:08:25 > 0:08:27Now let's go back to Prime Minister's Questions
0:08:27 > 0:08:30and the situation in Northern Ireland.
0:08:30 > 0:08:31The Deputy First Minister, Sinn Fein's Martin
0:08:31 > 0:08:34McGuinness, has resigned.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37Under Stormont's power-sharing agreement, his resignation
0:08:37 > 0:08:40means the First Minister, Arlene Foster, also loses her office
0:08:40 > 0:08:45and that could mean fresh elections have to be held.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48The SNP's Westminster group leader thought that breakdown could have
0:08:48 > 0:08:50wide-reaching implications.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53The Prime Minister has indicated that she wants to take the views
0:08:53 > 0:08:56of the elected representatives and the devolved institutions
0:08:56 > 0:09:00on Brexit seriously.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03So it stands to reason that if there is no Northern Ireland
0:09:03 > 0:09:07Assembly and there is no Northern Irish Executive for much
0:09:07 > 0:09:10of the time before the March timetable she has set before
0:09:10 > 0:09:14invoking Article 50, that she'll be unable
0:09:14 > 0:09:17to properly consult, to fully discuss and to find
0:09:17 > 0:09:23agreement on the complex issues during this time period.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25In these circumstances, will the Prime Minister postpone
0:09:25 > 0:09:31invoking Article 50...
0:09:31 > 0:09:39Will she postpone Article 50 or will she just plough on regardless?
0:09:39 > 0:09:42I'm clear that first of all we want to try to ensure that
0:09:42 > 0:09:46within this period of seven days we can find the result
0:09:46 > 0:09:56of into the political situation in Northern Ireland
0:09:59 > 0:10:02so that we can continue to see the Assembly government continuing.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04But I'm also clear that in the discussions we have
0:10:04 > 0:10:05it will be possible...
0:10:05 > 0:10:08It's still the case that ministers are in place and that obviously
0:10:08 > 0:10:11there are executives in place, that we are still able
0:10:11 > 0:10:13to take the views of the Northern Ireland people.
0:10:13 > 0:10:14Theresa May.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17Brexit is no longer the biggest risk to the UK's financial stability,
0:10:17 > 0:10:19the Governor of the Bank of England has told MPs.
0:10:19 > 0:10:21Mark Carney was making one of his regular appearances
0:10:21 > 0:10:22at the Treasury Committee.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25He was asked about remarks made by a colleague, Andy Haldane -
0:10:25 > 0:10:27the Bank of England's chief economist - about
0:10:27 > 0:10:29economic forecasting.
0:10:29 > 0:10:32Andy Haldane called the failure to predict the financial crisis
0:10:32 > 0:10:36of 2008 a "Michael Fish" moment for economists.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39He also accepted that a similar dynamic might have been in play over
0:10:39 > 0:10:45the bank's forecasts about Brexit.
0:10:45 > 0:10:51I feel I should begin by asking you, will you agree with the chief
0:10:51 > 0:10:54economist that the Bank of England's be having a Michael
0:10:54 > 0:10:59Fish moment, or two?
0:10:59 > 0:11:04Well, one of the advantages of managing group think is one
0:11:04 > 0:11:06doesn't always agree with everything that is said.
0:11:06 > 0:11:07By colleagues.
0:11:07 > 0:11:12Think the core point that Andy Haldane made,
0:11:12 > 0:11:15or tried to make, related to, no disrespect to Mr Fish, I should
0:11:15 > 0:11:18say, but was trying to make...
0:11:18 > 0:11:21Pertains exactly to what we are talking about today.
0:11:21 > 0:11:28Which is the ability to identify the risk to financial stability.
0:11:28 > 0:11:33And the poor performance of most in the economic profession,
0:11:33 > 0:11:37including some of the major topic institutions, the Bank of England.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39In identifying the major risks prior to the crisis.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42And he said the Bank had taken action to mitigate the risks
0:11:42 > 0:11:44around the referendum.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46I do think we helped make the weather.
0:11:46 > 0:11:49Meteorologists predict the weather, we helped make the weather
0:11:49 > 0:11:53in that we catalysed continuously continuously planned actions,
0:11:53 > 0:11:57pre-position of collateral, other steps within our
0:11:57 > 0:11:58major central banks.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00And better risk management, which helped make sure that this
0:12:00 > 0:12:04was a smooth process.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06He was asked whether Brexit remained the biggest domestic risk
0:12:06 > 0:12:08to the UK's financial stability.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12I am going to try and take you to a yes or no on it.
0:12:12 > 0:12:13Because...
0:12:13 > 0:12:15Well, strictly speaking, strictly speaking, the view of the
0:12:15 > 0:12:16committee is no.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19And he explained that the Bank of England had taken
0:12:19 > 0:12:23action to ease the risks.
0:12:23 > 0:12:26The UK's Green Investment Bank could be killed off if the Government goes
0:12:26 > 0:12:29ahead with plans to sell it, according to the Green
0:12:29 > 0:12:31party MP Caroline Lucas.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33The bank supports offshore wind farms and other green projects.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37The Government has announced plans to part privatise it,
0:12:37 > 0:12:42with Australian bank McQuarrie thought to be the preferred bidder.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44But former Liberal Democrat Business Secretary Sir Vince Cable said
0:12:44 > 0:12:47he fears it will be split up.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50The co-leader of the Green party urged ministers
0:12:50 > 0:12:53to halt the planned sale.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57This week, we had that the Green Investment Bank stands on the brink
0:12:57 > 0:13:02of not just being flogged off, but of being broken up
0:13:02 > 0:13:03with its green purposes discarded.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07Founded in 2012, the GIB has been widely recognised
0:13:07 > 0:13:09as a true success story, kick-starting truly innovative,
0:13:09 > 0:13:12low-carbon projects across the UK.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15And yet, this preferred bidder, McQuarrie, not only has a dismal
0:13:15 > 0:13:18and terrible environmental record, it also has an appalling track
0:13:18 > 0:13:21record of asset stripping.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24Why is the Government setting up a structure to invite
0:13:24 > 0:13:27in a profiteer asset stripper?
0:13:27 > 0:13:31If the GIB has been restructured in such a way as to allow it it's
0:13:31 > 0:13:35to be stripped of its assets, how can the Government guarantee
0:13:35 > 0:13:37that the special share supposedly introduced to protect the future
0:13:37 > 0:13:40of the GIB, will have the intended effect?
0:13:40 > 0:13:43Isn't this exactly the wrong time to be selling off
0:13:43 > 0:13:45the Green Investment Bank, given that the Government
0:13:45 > 0:13:48has decided to embark upon a new industrial strategy
0:13:48 > 0:13:51which must, to be in accord with our own climate change commitments,
0:13:51 > 0:13:56have low-carbon projects at its core?
0:13:56 > 0:13:59And finally, will the Minister admit that this selling off could lead
0:13:59 > 0:14:03to the bank being fatally undermined as an enduring institution.
0:14:03 > 0:14:07Will he stop the killing of the GIB?
0:14:07 > 0:14:11Will he halt the sale process with immediate effect?
0:14:11 > 0:14:14The minister said he couldn't comment on the process, potential
0:14:14 > 0:14:20bidders are media speculation.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23-- or media speculation.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25It is precisely because we want the Green Investment Bank
0:14:25 > 0:14:28to be able to do more, unfettered from the constraints
0:14:28 > 0:14:31of the state, that we are seeking to put it into the private sector.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34And the objectives that we have set out in the sale,
0:14:34 > 0:14:35they could not have been clearer.
0:14:35 > 0:14:37It has been discussed in this house.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39We are looking at very clear objectives around securing value
0:14:39 > 0:14:41for money for taxpayers, which must be our
0:14:41 > 0:14:42primary responsibility.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44We want to ensure that the GIB can be reclassified
0:14:44 > 0:14:45to the private sector.
0:14:45 > 0:14:49But we have also been very clear that the reason we want to move
0:14:49 > 0:14:51into the private sector is to enable the business to grow,
0:14:51 > 0:14:53and continue as an institution supporting investment
0:14:53 > 0:14:54in the green economy.
0:14:54 > 0:14:57We are selling it as a going concern, and potential investors
0:14:57 > 0:14:59will be buying into the company's green business plan
0:14:59 > 0:15:04and forward pipeline projects.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07These are the criteria we have set, these are the criteria
0:15:07 > 0:15:09against which we are evaluating the proposals that are before us.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12The Government's being urged to give victims of slavery the right
0:15:12 > 0:15:15to stay in the UK - to help ensure human
0:15:15 > 0:15:17traffickers can be locked up.
0:15:17 > 0:15:19MPs on the Work and Pensions Committee are looking
0:15:19 > 0:15:22into the treatment of those who've been enslaved.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25The former High Court Judge and independent peer
0:15:25 > 0:15:28Lady Butler-Sloss explained that victims receive financial and other
0:15:28 > 0:15:31support while their cases are being investigated,
0:15:31 > 0:15:34but when that period comes to an end, the help stops,
0:15:34 > 0:15:37even if a person has been officially recognised as a victim of slavery.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41She said this was "appalling" and explained some of
0:15:41 > 0:15:43the consequences of the process, known as the
0:15:43 > 0:15:48National Referral Mechanism or NRM.
0:15:48 > 0:15:58We had 31 convictions last year.
0:15:58 > 0:16:00And there were over 1000 people, I think,
0:16:00 > 0:16:01identified going through the NRM.
0:16:01 > 0:16:06It is thought by police there are 10,000 people per year who are
0:16:06 > 0:16:07victims, probably.
0:16:07 > 0:16:09And 30 convictions.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11One of the reasons is that the police, of
0:16:11 > 0:16:14course, can't keep track of these people because they have no idea
0:16:14 > 0:16:17where they are.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19They all disappear because they have no
0:16:19 > 0:16:20entitlements.
0:16:20 > 0:16:23If you don't have the witnesses, speaking as a former
0:16:23 > 0:16:26judge, you have a great difficulty in going ahead with the
0:16:26 > 0:16:27prosecutions.
0:16:27 > 0:16:32So it is actually in the public interest to keep these
0:16:32 > 0:16:35people with some entitlement in this country, at least until the time
0:16:35 > 0:16:43when there has been a trial and we have had a conviction.
0:16:43 > 0:16:44-- we hope a conviction.
0:16:44 > 0:16:45Otherwise, we don't get the traffickers.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48Do you think, to fix this so that they
0:16:48 > 0:16:50don't fall off at the end, does that need to be legislation?
0:16:50 > 0:16:53Can it just be guidance that can be put out to
0:16:53 > 0:16:54DWP?
0:16:54 > 0:16:55Immediately?
0:16:55 > 0:16:57What is your view on how we fix it?
0:16:57 > 0:17:00It occurs to me that another group of people I've
0:17:00 > 0:17:02witnessed recently, women who are domestic violence survivors
0:17:02 > 0:17:04and have been moved to another town in the
0:17:04 > 0:17:06country, and they are nobody with no paperwork.
0:17:06 > 0:17:11And they have the same battles with the local Jobcentre,
0:17:11 > 0:17:14who are you?
0:17:14 > 0:17:16We have never heard of you?
0:17:16 > 0:17:19Do we need legislation to do this, or some kind of guidance that
0:17:19 > 0:17:20the DWP can have?
0:17:20 > 0:17:23Do we maybe need a new category of people who are, ask
0:17:23 > 0:17:26no questions, you've got this label, this piece of paper, and you
0:17:26 > 0:17:28automatically have the entitlement to benefits?
0:17:28 > 0:17:30There is statutory guidance being drafted at this
0:17:30 > 0:17:31moment.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34Which makes me think that this committee is enormously
0:17:34 > 0:17:37important, because I hope that you will have a real impact on that
0:17:37 > 0:17:40statutory guidance.
0:17:40 > 0:17:48But it seems to me there is two things, really.
0:17:48 > 0:17:50One, the other two know better than I do,
0:17:50 > 0:17:51one is the immigration status.
0:17:51 > 0:17:55If you can get at least the leave to remain for a year, but preferably
0:17:55 > 0:17:57indefinitely to remain, but even one year would help.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01And then, there would be that guidance, I would
0:18:01 > 0:18:05hope, that they would then be expressed their entitlement to
0:18:05 > 0:18:10health care, housing and so on.
0:18:10 > 0:18:14So that they would have a piece of paper that they could show to all
0:18:14 > 0:18:19the authorities so that they would then become priorities.
0:18:19 > 0:18:21I know local authorities have appalling problems
0:18:21 > 0:18:22with housing.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25But these are people who really should be treated as
0:18:25 > 0:18:27priorities.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29The Committee also heard from the Independent
0:18:29 > 0:18:32Anti-Slavery Commissioner - he said victims were being let down.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35Is somebody who has been kept in slavery for six months then
0:18:35 > 0:18:37capable of doing a job straight after?
0:18:37 > 0:18:39It is very unlikely.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41There would be a period that they would
0:18:41 > 0:18:43need to be supported.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46And I think that that period, we need to say
0:18:46 > 0:18:52what is the period?
0:18:52 > 0:18:55I wouldn't want this to be a lifetime on benefits -
0:18:55 > 0:18:56I don't think...
0:18:56 > 0:18:58We need to be working about how we integrate people within
0:18:59 > 0:19:00the UK, or when they go home.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04But it needs to be enough time that professionals are able to assess and
0:19:04 > 0:19:06say, this person needs to be supported for that period of time.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09You know, some people may need long-term psychological support.
0:19:09 > 0:19:15Now, let's go back to the state of England's health service.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17MPs spent the afternoon in a Labour-led debate on NHS
0:19:17 > 0:19:18and social care funding.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21Where backbench MPs set out the problems facing the NHS
0:19:21 > 0:19:22and some possible solutions.
0:19:22 > 0:19:25What we are seeing is this Government is running out of places
0:19:25 > 0:19:28to cut corners to save money on the NHS.
0:19:28 > 0:19:35We are seeing the lack of respect and compassion given to
0:19:35 > 0:19:37people, the health care they need and deserve.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40We are seeing those that need care at home having to make do
0:19:40 > 0:19:41with 15 minute flying visits.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45We have seen the pressure in A E departments building over the last
0:19:45 > 0:19:48six years, and yet, every year, we reach a winter crisis.
0:19:48 > 0:19:50And somehow, this is a surprise to the
0:19:50 > 0:19:53Government.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57We have seen A E waiting times increasing were now
0:19:57 > 0:20:04over 1.8 million people are waiting more than four hours.
0:20:04 > 0:20:06In 2015-16, an increase of 400% since 2010.
0:20:06 > 0:20:16Hospitals are under pressure in winter because of admissions.
0:20:17 > 0:20:21Because the people who come to A E are sicker, are older, are more
0:20:21 > 0:20:24competent.
0:20:24 > 0:20:25-- complicated.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28And that is the problem that we have at the moment.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30But what we haven't seen as I just mention,
0:20:30 > 0:20:32is any summer respite In NHS England at all.
0:20:32 > 0:20:34It's not a catastrophe of people living longer.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36All of us who are medical in the House remember
0:20:36 > 0:20:40that was definitely the point of why we went into medicine, and that is
0:20:40 > 0:20:41the point of the NHS.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43But we are not ageing very well.
0:20:43 > 0:20:45And for the age of 40 or 50 onwards, people are
0:20:45 > 0:20:48starting to accumulate conditions that maybe they would not have
0:20:48 > 0:20:49survived in the past.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51By the time they are 70, they have four or five
0:20:51 > 0:20:53core morbidities is that make treating even
0:20:53 > 0:20:54something quite simple a challenge.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57So my colleagues and friends who are still working on the front
0:20:57 > 0:21:00line say it is not even just numbers, it is
0:21:00 > 0:21:01complexity.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03Someone comes with what sounds like an easy issue,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06but in actual fact, with diabetes and renal failure and previous heart
0:21:06 > 0:21:07attack, this is now a complex issue.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10The Conservative and GP who chairs the Health Committee is one of those
0:21:10 > 0:21:13calling for a cross-party convention to map out a future
0:21:13 > 0:21:14for health and social care.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16And I think what our constituents want us
0:21:16 > 0:21:17to do as politicians is to
0:21:17 > 0:21:19recognise the scale of the challenge.
0:21:19 > 0:21:20And get to grips with it.
0:21:20 > 0:21:28In future, would you agree with me that there should be a new funding
0:21:28 > 0:21:35settlement, certainly in terms of the budget,
0:21:35 > 0:21:38that the NHS and social care, and bring both of them
0:21:38 > 0:21:39together.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42At the moment, there have been cuts of ?4.6 billion.
0:21:42 > 0:21:43That is what I am hoping.
0:21:43 > 0:21:48We must end the silos of health and social care.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52Thinking about this money has been social care money or health money,
0:21:52 > 0:21:56and think of it as a patient pound and a taxpayer pound, and how to get
0:21:56 > 0:22:00the very best from that.
0:22:00 > 0:22:02What impact will our exit from the EU have
0:22:02 > 0:22:06on the Labour market - more specifically on industries that
0:22:06 > 0:22:09currently rely on large numbers of migrant workers to get the job
0:22:09 > 0:22:12done - such as agriculture?
0:22:12 > 0:22:15In the Lords, Peers urged Ministers to make a firm commitment that
0:22:15 > 0:22:20foreign workers already in the UK would be able to stay after Brexit.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22Isn't it time that the Government really
0:22:22 > 0:22:27dropped this ridiculous pretence that there is a trade-off here?
0:22:27 > 0:22:31The reality is that we have significant sectors of our
0:22:31 > 0:22:36economy, like caring and hospitality and areas of agriculture, which
0:22:36 > 0:22:38would virtually collapse if non-British nationals didn't remain
0:22:38 > 0:22:48and work here.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51There is massive and anxiety out there in the country,
0:22:51 > 0:22:52amongst employer and employee.
0:22:52 > 0:22:54Is it time now that the Government did the
0:22:54 > 0:22:56right thing morally and commercially, and gave these
0:22:56 > 0:22:57individuals the right to remain?
0:22:57 > 0:22:59The Government has been absolutely clear
0:22:59 > 0:23:02that it will seek to reach agreement on this issue at an early
0:23:02 > 0:23:03stage of negotiations with the EU.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07I dispute the notion of a trade-off
0:23:07 > 0:23:10because the EU's refusal to guarantee the status of UK
0:23:10 > 0:23:14nationals elsewhere in the EU prior to
0:23:14 > 0:23:17negotiations shows that the Government has been absolutely
0:23:17 > 0:23:19right not to give away the guarantee for
0:23:19 > 0:23:23status of EU citizens in the UK.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Because the Prime Minister has said that would have left UK citizens
0:23:26 > 0:23:28high and dry.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32For agriculturalists and horticulturalists in Lincolnshire
0:23:32 > 0:23:34and adjoining counties, the access to migrant labour
0:23:34 > 0:23:36is very important indeed.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39Without our migrant labour, it is probable that many of those
0:23:39 > 0:23:42businesses would not survive.
0:23:42 > 0:23:46Does the Minister appreciate that there
0:23:46 > 0:23:49are tens of thousands of European citizens working in our health
0:23:49 > 0:23:54service?
0:23:54 > 0:23:59And indeed our health service would fall apart - I am not
0:23:59 > 0:24:02exaggerating - fall apart if it wasn't for these workers?
0:24:02 > 0:24:09Does the Minister agree with the statement
0:24:09 > 0:24:12statement in the recent CBI report that we need a system informed by
0:24:12 > 0:24:15business, rather than imposed on business?
0:24:15 > 0:24:18And that this is essential to the future economic growth of
0:24:18 > 0:24:27the UK?
0:24:27 > 0:24:29Is the Government talking to employers, listening to them,
0:24:29 > 0:24:30and what have they had to
0:24:30 > 0:24:33say about the ?1000 levy about which we have heard today?
0:24:33 > 0:24:35That was a reference to comments from Government minister
0:24:35 > 0:24:37Robert Goodwill who told a lords committee that there
0:24:37 > 0:24:39were suggestions that firms which hire European Union workers
0:24:39 > 0:24:42could face an annual levy after the UK leaves the EU.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45Mr Goodwill explained that businesses will from this April be
0:24:45 > 0:24:47charged a ?1,000 a year for every skilled worker they employ
0:24:47 > 0:24:50from outside Europe.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53So for example, if one wishes to recruit an Indian
0:24:53 > 0:24:57computer programmer on a four-year contract, on top of the existing
0:24:57 > 0:25:06Visa charges and the administration involved around that, there will be
0:25:06 > 0:25:09labour market tests and all these other things in place.
0:25:09 > 0:25:15There will be a fee of ?1000 per year, so for a
0:25:15 > 0:25:19four-year contract, that employer will have to pay ?4000 of an
0:25:19 > 0:25:20immigration skills charge.
0:25:20 > 0:25:21Now, that is something that is currently
0:25:21 > 0:25:22applying to non-EU.
0:25:22 > 0:25:25That maybe something that has been suggested to
0:25:25 > 0:25:27us, and could apply to the EU.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29As I say, I am not in a position at the
0:25:29 > 0:25:32moment to really speculate as to what the settlement will be
0:25:32 > 0:25:34post-Brexit negotiations.
0:25:34 > 0:25:38But Downing Street later insisted that extending the levy wasn't
0:25:38 > 0:25:41on the Government's agenda.
0:25:41 > 0:25:46And that's it for now, but do join me at the same time
0:25:46 > 0:25:48tomorrow for the best of the day here in Westminster.
0:25:48 > 0:25:52But until then, from me, Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.