Donald Trump Debate

:00:00. > :00:00.Donald Trump 's Mac state visit to the USA. You can follow the comments

:00:00. > :00:00.on our website, and we will return to the main chamber at half past

:00:00. > :00:13.seven. This is a very oversubscribed

:00:14. > :00:16.debate. If everybody sticks to five minutes and does not take many

:00:17. > :00:21.interventions, everybody should get in. Can I remind people in the

:00:22. > :00:26.public gallery this is the chamber of the House of Commons. By all

:00:27. > :00:29.means listen and observe but if I have any offstage noise I will

:00:30. > :00:34.suspend the sitting and clear the public gallery. I call Mr Paul

:00:35. > :00:39.Flynn. It is a pleasure to serve under your company is a very

:00:40. > :00:50.distinguished parliamentarian. I beg to move that addition 178844, and

:00:51. > :00:54.117928 are considered by this house. Could I think the petitions

:00:55. > :00:58.committee for allowing me to introduce these petitions. There's

:00:59. > :01:02.been a great deal of misunderstanding about their nature.

:01:03. > :01:09.There is one that is signed by nearly 300 people which says that

:01:10. > :01:13.Donald Trump should be invited to make a state visit because he is the

:01:14. > :01:16.leader of the free world and the UK is a country that supports free

:01:17. > :01:22.speech and does not believe that people who are poised to a point of

:01:23. > :01:29.view should be kept. That petition gained 300,000 votes. The one that

:01:30. > :01:33.gained a remarkable total of 1,850,000 votes in a few days reads

:01:34. > :01:40.this, and it has been much misunderstood. Donald Trump should

:01:41. > :01:45.be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the United

:01:46. > :01:50.States government, but he should not be invited to make an official state

:01:51. > :01:55.visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the

:01:56. > :02:02.Queen. This is a fascinating prospect. One is in the first

:02:03. > :02:07.petition suggests in some way cancelling the visit, the state

:02:08. > :02:16.visit would deprive President Trump of his ability to speak freely when

:02:17. > :02:19.we've had from him in recent days is ceaseless incontinence of free

:02:20. > :02:27.speech, and the man is everywhere 24 hours a day, seven days of the week.

:02:28. > :02:30.But the other petition is saying not that he shouldn't come here, he

:02:31. > :02:35.should come here on business or other matters, but he shouldn't be

:02:36. > :02:44.accorded the rare privilege of a state visit. Only two Presidents of

:02:45. > :02:47.the to have been granted a state visit since 1952. It's extraordinary

:02:48. > :02:54.that that's the situation but here we have a position where seven days

:02:55. > :02:58.into his presidency he is invited to have the full panoply of a state

:02:59. > :03:04.visit, extraordinary. Completely unprecedented. And we can dwell on

:03:05. > :03:08.the reasons for that. But the reasons are nothing to do with the

:03:09. > :03:17.fact that we all in this room hold in great respect the United States

:03:18. > :03:21.presidency, their constitution, their history of presidents which is

:03:22. > :03:28.part of our history, and we know how close that our cultures have melted

:03:29. > :03:33.together in the arts, entertainment, in our film and cinema. We are

:03:34. > :03:38.merging into almost one nation. But we have a direct interest in the

:03:39. > :03:45.presidency of the United States because he is also the lead of the

:03:46. > :03:51.free world. The question of the seven-day invitation, would my

:03:52. > :03:53.honourable friend interpreted desperation as the reason? If my

:03:54. > :03:57.honourable friend is able to see desperation for a trade deal, does

:03:58. > :04:03.he think that President Trump might be able to detect it as well? The

:04:04. > :04:06.word comes to mind. We think of the circumstances of our beleaguered

:04:07. > :04:12.Prime Minister in that she's with this great predicament of being the

:04:13. > :04:16.Bridge burner, destroying the bridges to us and Europe, and

:04:17. > :04:21.knowing the possibility, we are told there are Brexit bumps in the road

:04:22. > :04:26.ahead, but it might turn out to be a Brexit sinkhole into which our

:04:27. > :04:29.economy might plunge in freefall, she had difficulty, can the Bridge

:04:30. > :04:34.Burnaby the Bridge builder? And because she made an attempt to

:04:35. > :04:40.present herself as someone who would act as the link between the

:04:41. > :04:43.Presidency and Europe, and quite rightly the president of Lithuania

:04:44. > :04:48.pointed out we don't need a link because we are in constant contact

:04:49. > :04:58.with him through his incessant tweets. Whilst some of President

:04:59. > :05:03.Trump Wess views on women, on race and religion are very distasteful

:05:04. > :05:09.indeed, does the honourable gentleman agree with me that the

:05:10. > :05:13.special relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States

:05:14. > :05:16.of America goes peon and any individual that might happen to

:05:17. > :05:25.occupy the White House at any particular time? Agree entirely. And

:05:26. > :05:29.I know in my own life my father's life was ruined by the First World

:05:30. > :05:33.War, the Second World War I can remember as a child in school seeing

:05:34. > :05:39.the empty desks when children had been killed. We were grateful and we

:05:40. > :05:42.remain grateful for the United States at that time, and I think

:05:43. > :05:48.Europe is right to remember that and recall our gratitude. There is no

:05:49. > :05:52.country in the whole of the world that sacrificed the blood of its

:05:53. > :05:56.daughters and sons for the democracies of other countries than

:05:57. > :06:00.the United States. And there is no question of any disrespect towards

:06:01. > :06:07.that country. But there is a great feeling of concern which welled up

:06:08. > :06:11.in this petition. The day after the inauguration 2 million mostly women

:06:12. > :06:16.marched on the streets of America. 100,000 marched here in this

:06:17. > :06:20.country. And it was an expression of fear and anxiety that we had someone

:06:21. > :06:27.in the White House wielding this enormous power, the power was

:06:28. > :06:35.enormous but unfortunately the intellectual capacity of the

:06:36. > :06:38.president is protozoan. We are greatly concerned about the actions

:06:39. > :06:46.that he has taken. Extraordinary actions, blundering into frozen

:06:47. > :06:50.conflicts around the planet that needed delicate handling, that

:06:51. > :06:55.needed the microsurgery of decisions taken in the past by statesman. But

:06:56. > :07:01.he went in and he's caused problems in every particular area in which he

:07:02. > :07:06.has become involved in. The China Sea, in Ukraine and in Israel and

:07:07. > :07:17.Palestine. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Does he agree

:07:18. > :07:21.that to use the expression "Grab em by the pussy" describes a sexual

:07:22. > :07:27.assault and therefore he should not be given a visit with our Queen.

:07:28. > :07:31.Entirely. His manner and behaviour through the election period were

:07:32. > :07:37.greatly worrying. It was his extraordinary reaction to his own

:07:38. > :07:40.inauguration that was partly provoking the demonstrations that

:07:41. > :07:43.took place. He said he was going to object to the election on the

:07:44. > :07:46.grounds of fraud when he thought he was going to lose. But it's

:07:47. > :07:51.extraordinary for someone to complain when they actually win. But

:07:52. > :07:56.he complained about everything. He complained that the rain didn't fall

:07:57. > :08:03.and we all saw it fall, about the numbers who were in the crowd being

:08:04. > :08:07.less. He complained and light about the result that he had. And this was

:08:08. > :08:21.of great concern, when you have a petulant child. How is he going to

:08:22. > :08:29.behave in a future conflict? I think the honourable gentleman for giving

:08:30. > :08:35.way. His response to Mr Trump's ill considered phraseology, but what

:08:36. > :08:40.complaint did the honourable gentleman make when Emperor Hirohito

:08:41. > :08:44.came? There have been many people here who were less welcome than

:08:45. > :08:49.others, that is absolutely true. We've had people here who are very

:08:50. > :08:54.unsavoury characters, and not from the United States. But certainly we

:08:55. > :08:59.can't try to imitate the errors of the past, we should set an example

:09:00. > :09:10.by making sure that we don't make those mistakes again. My concern is

:09:11. > :09:14.what we've got here is a situation that is one that is of great

:09:15. > :09:18.concern. Because the Prime Minister is in an awkward position, I believe

:09:19. > :09:27.that from the seventh day of his presidency things have got far worse

:09:28. > :09:35.by the 31st day of his presidency. We have seen General Michael Flynn

:09:36. > :09:40.forced out of office because he couldn't tell the truth about

:09:41. > :09:46.relations with Russia. And he could have been a victim of blackmail.

:09:47. > :09:50.That is a very worrying situation when we know during the election

:09:51. > :09:58.campaign that there were allegations made and there was an appeal made by

:09:59. > :10:02.the presidential candidate Trump to encourage people to hack the

:10:03. > :10:10.accounts of Hillary Clinton. There may well be a case coming up which

:10:11. > :10:14.will show that the position of the president is one that is going to be

:10:15. > :10:20.difficult to sustain if he himself is open to blackmail. We also know

:10:21. > :10:25.of the confrontation that took place between President Obama during the

:10:26. > :10:33.election campaign warning that this was a likely outcome. I'm grateful

:10:34. > :10:36.to him for giving way. A higher percentage of constituents from

:10:37. > :10:43.Brighton signed the petition and I am proud to represent them today.

:10:44. > :10:48.Many of them have raised not only Trump misogyny and racism and his

:10:49. > :10:55.contempt for climate science. With the honourable gentleman say that a

:10:56. > :10:58.state visit for somebody who has shown such effrontery to science is

:10:59. > :11:02.another reason he should not be coming here. It is extraordinary

:11:03. > :11:06.that from the cavernous depths of his scientific ignorance is prepared

:11:07. > :11:12.to challenge the conclusions of 97% of the world experts on this manner.

:11:13. > :11:17.It is a bad science conspiracy theory conclusions that he makes on

:11:18. > :11:21.what is, apart from the nuclear issue, probably the most important

:11:22. > :11:24.issue of our time. But it is on the nuclear issue where he is again

:11:25. > :11:29.almost unique in that he believes in nuclear proliferation and he is

:11:30. > :11:35.trying to persuade countries like South Korea and Japan to acquire

:11:36. > :11:40.their own nuclear weapons. We know that the danger of nuclear war is

:11:41. > :11:47.not because of the malice of Nations but the likelihood is that it will

:11:48. > :11:50.come by accident, by human error, by technical failure, like the one that

:11:51. > :11:53.happened when one of our missiles headed in the wrong direction

:11:54. > :11:58.towards the United States in a recent test. And the more nations

:11:59. > :12:05.that have nuclear weapons, the more likely it is that that problem will

:12:06. > :12:08.emerge and we could be plunged into nuclear war. If we look at the

:12:09. > :12:13.question which the petitioners put them in point, the situation as far

:12:14. > :12:20.as Her Majesty is concerned, and a former permanent secretary of the

:12:21. > :12:25.Commonwealth office, Lord Ricketts, reacted to the invitation by arguing

:12:26. > :12:30.that there was no precedent for a US president to visit in his first year

:12:31. > :12:35.of office, quite right. And he said it would have been far wiser to see

:12:36. > :12:41.what sort of president he would turn out to be before advising the Queen

:12:42. > :12:48.to invite him. Now the Queen is put in a very difficult position. And I

:12:49. > :12:51.believe for that reason alone that we should consider this, the

:12:52. > :12:56.government should consider this with a bit of humility to decide what

:12:57. > :13:04.action should take place and change the invitation to a visit, not a

:13:05. > :13:10.state visit. I know what a great fan of the monarchy he is, and indeed he

:13:11. > :13:14.probably has a weekly chats with her. What did she actually say to

:13:15. > :13:22.the honourable member to lead him to believe that she found it difficult?

:13:23. > :13:27.We are not trading on it into this debate, all right, colleagues? Mr

:13:28. > :13:31.Flynn. I am well aware of the standing orders on this matter, I

:13:32. > :13:35.speak as someone with enormous regard for the Queen. She is my

:13:36. > :13:41.inspiration, she is my example. She is working at an age that is 80 is

:13:42. > :13:46.beyond my age. I am certainly not going to be so wimpish as to stand

:13:47. > :13:56.down while she continues with her heroic work at her age. Our main

:13:57. > :14:06.concern, we are in this position now of surrealism over an Orwellian

:14:07. > :14:11.world that is unfolding before us where the theme that has been put

:14:12. > :14:20.forward by Trump is that lies are the truth, that good is bad, that

:14:21. > :14:26.war is peace, that fantasy is fact. And we see this with the figure of

:14:27. > :14:33.the Trump Big Brother, there, ever present, seven days a week, 24

:14:34. > :14:38.hours, preaching from this one source of news, the only voice of

:14:39. > :14:41.truth. I think the honourable gentleman for giving way. Would he

:14:42. > :14:45.not agree with me that there is something, even though this ban is

:14:46. > :14:47.completely absurd, there is something quite professional about a

:14:48. > :14:51.politician doing what they said they would do before they were elected.

:14:52. > :14:55.And whilst this ban is quite ridiculous it is actually a reaction

:14:56. > :14:59.to the chaos caused in the Middle East by previous generations of

:15:00. > :15:04.politicians which in my view is far worse than anything that Trump has

:15:05. > :15:08.done and which many of the people in this room voted for. Where is the

:15:09. > :15:14.will of the American people, where is your respect for that? The will

:15:15. > :15:22.of the American people has changed rapidly within the last seven days.

:15:23. > :15:30.We'll get the facts. The position today is that Trump's standing is

:15:31. > :15:37.-18, that's precisely the level of support that was held by Richard

:15:38. > :15:43.Nixon on the day that he resigned his presidency. He is on a rock

:15:44. > :15:48.bottom. He is the least popular American president in this country

:15:49. > :15:52.ever. And he is down on a level of approval and quite rightly so.

:15:53. > :15:57.collecting what we are doing and what is meeting here today is doing

:15:58. > :16:05.is taking notice of what the public says, and we are not going to be in

:16:06. > :16:09.a position where we ignore public opinion, or is insensitive to

:16:10. > :16:18.democratic decisions. That is why many of us with heavy hearts voted

:16:19. > :16:22.for Article 50 last week. We can't allow that Gulf to appear as

:16:23. > :16:27.happened in America between politicians and what is seen as

:16:28. > :16:31.public opinion. If we don't ignore what is being said in these

:16:32. > :16:35.petitions, and take action from them, they will greet us with the

:16:36. > :16:39.same cynicism, and they will see us as distant, and look for people to

:16:40. > :16:44.be elected who are non-politicians. That is a great overarching topic on

:16:45. > :16:52.Brexit and on this is you. That we must maintain respect for

:16:53. > :16:55.politicians, and we mustn't see an increase in the divisions, the lack

:16:56. > :16:59.of trust that has been happening in this country in these expenses

:17:00. > :17:06.scandal, our reputation in this house was at rock bottom. Now it is

:17:07. > :17:10.subterranean and we have to work to change it. Andrew Walmsley, a very

:17:11. > :17:15.distinct journalist, has something to say about the position. He said

:17:16. > :17:19.some ministers matter that the big mistake was to issue the invitation

:17:20. > :17:26.to make an early state visit to Britain, a notion conceived as a way

:17:27. > :17:31.of flattering his colossal vanities. At the very least it would have been

:17:32. > :17:36.prudent to wait before broiling -- rolling out the Royal red carpet,

:17:37. > :17:41.pimping of the Queen for the Donald Trump. This apparently is what they

:17:42. > :17:53.meant by getting our sovereignty back, the words of Andrew Walmsley.

:17:54. > :18:02.-- Andrew Rawnsley. I do not think it is in order to talk about pimping

:18:03. > :18:07.out our sovereign even if it is quoting a journalist. Can we get to

:18:08. > :18:11.the wind-up, please, Mr Flynn? It is a simple one, it is a great chance

:18:12. > :18:13.to be here and the start of this debate but I know that there are

:18:14. > :18:18.many people who have contributions to make on the subject. I would say

:18:19. > :18:24.we are in a position unlike any faced by any previous parliament

:18:25. > :18:29.where we have a person of a unique personality running of the United

:18:30. > :18:33.States. There are great dangers in attempting to give him the best

:18:34. > :18:37.accolade we can offer anyone, only been offered twice before, of a

:18:38. > :18:42.state visit. This would be terribly wrong, because it would appear that

:18:43. > :18:45.British Parliament, the British nation, the British sovereign is

:18:46. > :18:50.approving of the acts of Donald J Trump.

:18:51. > :18:59.Five minute time limit. A delight under your chairmanship. I suppose

:19:00. > :19:04.2016 was a seismic year, in many ways, and for those of us in this

:19:05. > :19:08.room who actually believe in democracy, I didn't actually realise

:19:09. > :19:16.that there were so many interpretations of it. We have seen

:19:17. > :19:21.that justice last week. It is almost as if in 2015 we have the election

:19:22. > :19:26.of a Conservative government, which clearly hit a lot of little hard.

:19:27. > :19:30.Then we had Brexit, and people are coming to terms with it or not to

:19:31. > :19:34.terms with it in their own way. And then of course the election of

:19:35. > :19:43.Donald Trump, and I advise anybody who is interested to go and YouTube

:19:44. > :19:51.a Newsnight video where it shows the leading lights of the United States

:19:52. > :19:54.of America from Nancy Pelosi, George Clooney, have reread and various

:19:55. > :20:00.others all saying that there is not a chance that this man would ever

:20:01. > :20:04.become President of the United States. They sneered when they said

:20:05. > :20:08.it, and why were they sneering, and actually it is interspersed with the

:20:09. > :20:14.inauguration of Donald John Crump. Right at the end they say the United

:20:15. > :20:17.States has a new president, his name is Donald John from. So for those

:20:18. > :20:22.people who are finding it difficult to get to terms with Brexit, we are

:20:23. > :20:25.actually leaving the European Union, that is what the people decided. And

:20:26. > :20:30.for those who are finding it difficult that the American people

:20:31. > :20:33.voted for Donald Trump, get over it because he is President of the

:20:34. > :20:37.United States. And what I would say for all of us here and this actually

:20:38. > :20:44.includes myself is that we have to ask ourselves why is it that people

:20:45. > :20:48.felt so left behind that they made the democratic decisions they have

:20:49. > :20:52.had, which we think we can't understand, some of us? How can you

:20:53. > :20:56.possibly vote for Brexit, how can you possibly vote for Donald Trump,

:20:57. > :21:00.but the fact is the people have. These were the forgotten people,

:21:01. > :21:03.just like we have them in the United Kingdom, there are the forgotten

:21:04. > :21:08.people in the United States of America. They are the ones that

:21:09. > :21:11.packed that Stadium on Saturday to cheered Donald Trump, after his the

:21:12. > :21:18.first month in the presidency, because, actually, they like what he

:21:19. > :21:21.says. We may not like some of the things he says, and I certainly

:21:22. > :21:25.don't like some of the things he has said in the past, but I do respect

:21:26. > :21:30.the fact that he stood on a platform which he is now delivering. He is

:21:31. > :21:33.going to go down in history as being roundly condemned for being the only

:21:34. > :21:40.politician to deliver on his promises. I know that is a peculiar

:21:41. > :21:43.thing in the politics that we are used to hear, that politicians

:21:44. > :21:49.actually stand up for something and then deliver on them. But the fact

:21:50. > :21:53.is he is. And I know we can all go back and talk to the people we know

:21:54. > :21:58.in our own little echo chambers, and all we hear of the same things, but

:21:59. > :22:02.the fact is there were 61 million people who voted for Donald Trump,

:22:03. > :22:06.and when we stand up in this country and then condemn him for being

:22:07. > :22:14.racist, and I have seen no evidence of that. I have seen no evidence of

:22:15. > :22:19.him being racist, or at acting in an unseemly way, we are actually

:22:20. > :22:23.attacking the American people, the 61 million people who voted for

:22:24. > :22:28.Donald Trump. If they wanted more of the same all the usual stuff, that

:22:29. > :22:33.was on the ballot paper. But they decided by the majority of states on

:22:34. > :22:40.the electoral college, as it works, that they wanted Donald Trump. I am

:22:41. > :22:49.very grateful, my honourable friend keeps talking about the 62 million

:22:50. > :22:57.people, 63 million. But what they forget is that of course Hillary

:22:58. > :23:00.Clinton got nearly 66 million. I agree, she piled the votes up in the

:23:01. > :23:05.liberal California and the liberal New York on the east coast, she

:23:06. > :23:09.piled them up, but that is not how the system works, and my right

:23:10. > :23:13.honourable friend is an expert in American politics, he knows how it

:23:14. > :23:17.works, and the that as part of the checks balances. Donald Trump knew

:23:18. > :23:23.how it worked and it was the people in the middle of America have left

:23:24. > :23:28.behind, what they call the deplorable is, they were referred

:23:29. > :23:32.to. The deplorable is who feel left behind by ministration after

:23:33. > :23:36.administration, and they decided to put Donald Trump in. One thing I

:23:37. > :23:44.would say because we have limited time. I hope people who will condemn

:23:45. > :23:54.the trolling of Baron Trump and Lallana Trump. We talk about sexism

:23:55. > :23:59.and Melania Trump, it is appalling. When she read the Lord's Prayer on

:24:00. > :24:04.Saturday in Florida, the amount of people who had a go at her for doing

:24:05. > :24:09.that and the fact that she is from Slovenia, that she has not got an

:24:10. > :24:15.American accent. Quite appalling. Deselected here a bit of parity. The

:24:16. > :24:18.other thing is I don't want this house to be brought into disrepute

:24:19. > :24:23.as my old friend from Newport said, in as far as double standards.

:24:24. > :24:29.Double standards, we can refer to all the things about Donald Trump

:24:30. > :24:33.are some people have, even though he is democratically elected. She's in

:24:34. > :24:38.pain were here last year, where were the demonstrations then? How many

:24:39. > :24:47.votes did she Jim Bevan get? We had a state visit from a Chinese leader

:24:48. > :24:50.ten minutes after the -- ten years after Tiananmen square. There have

:24:51. > :24:54.been many other state visit over the years and that is double standards.

:24:55. > :24:58.It is simply because people in this room, and maybe in this country as

:24:59. > :25:03.well, cannot understand why it is that the people voted for Donald

:25:04. > :25:06.Trump, why they voted for Brexit, and I'm still people -- until people

:25:07. > :25:10.understand that there will be more of the same, the people who feel

:25:11. > :25:22.left behind have spoken, and they voted for Donald Trump from.

:25:23. > :25:28.I would hope in this important debate when members of the public

:25:29. > :25:33.have spent a long time thinking about this and actually calling the

:25:34. > :25:41.debate that some of us might try and be above party politics. This debate

:25:42. > :25:45.cuts to the heart of the nature of our own democracy and how we honour

:25:46. > :25:51.and celebrate other countries. That is why I think it is important we

:25:52. > :25:54.reflect on whether it is right, after seven days, that Donald Trump

:25:55. > :26:00.should be afforded a full state visit. I personally am a great

:26:01. > :26:05.friend of the United States. My father is buried in the United

:26:06. > :26:09.States. I studied in the United States. I worked in the United

:26:10. > :26:15.States. I visited America more times than I visited France. It is a

:26:16. > :26:21.country I love tremendously. All of us I suspect in this chamber are

:26:22. > :26:26.well aware of the deep connection and affection that the British

:26:27. > :26:34.people for America and it people, but we also aware of the challenges

:26:35. > :26:39.that exist in that country, and the contentious manner of the election

:26:40. > :26:46.that led to Donald Trump. That means, I think, that of course one

:26:47. > :26:49.would expect the leader of the free world to come to Britain, but it is

:26:50. > :26:55.the terms and the basis on which that is done. And for those reasons

:26:56. > :26:59.I think an official visit might have been appropriate, but to afford this

:27:00. > :27:10.man after seven days a state visit is why so many people have

:27:11. > :27:14.petitioned. I am not going to give way, it is only five minutes. I am

:27:15. > :27:22.here really because I want to remind the chamber about the path that

:27:23. > :27:28.America has taken, and the contribution of African-Americans in

:27:29. > :27:31.the United States of America. I want to remind the chamber that there are

:27:32. > :27:39.many African-Americans in America sitting at home in fear. They are

:27:40. > :27:47.concerned about the president that has had the support of the Ku Klux

:27:48. > :27:53.Klan. They are concerned about a president that has welcomed, sorry,

:27:54. > :27:58.white supremacists, it is a term that we almost hoped would sort of

:27:59. > :28:05.fall in the history, into his close the circle. They look at events like

:28:06. > :28:10.Black history month. You think of the way in which our own Prime

:28:11. > :28:15.Minister 's of different political stripes, response, the sorts of

:28:16. > :28:22.statements they make, and you look at what he said, how he made that up

:28:23. > :28:26.at all about himself, and you really say in our country, seven days and

:28:27. > :28:33.he gets the full panoply of the state? Really? I think of my

:28:34. > :28:39.five-year-old daughter. When I think about a man who thinks it's OK to go

:28:40. > :28:44.and grab pussy. I think about a man who thinks it's OK to be so

:28:45. > :28:50.misogynistic erred towards the woman that he's running against, and,

:28:51. > :28:54.frankly, I can't imagine a leader of our own country, of whatever

:28:55. > :29:00.political stripe, in that manner. And it is for that reason that I

:29:01. > :29:03.think people are offended and concerned that Britain should

:29:04. > :29:12.abandon all its principles and afford this man a state visit after

:29:13. > :29:17.seven days. Really? And why? Because this great country is so desperate

:29:18. > :29:22.for a trade deal? That we would throw all of our own history out of

:29:23. > :29:28.the window? We didn't do this for Kennedy. We didn't do this for

:29:29. > :29:36.Truman. We didn't do this for Reagan. But for this man? After

:29:37. > :29:40.seven days? We say please come, and we will lay on everything, because

:29:41. > :29:47.we are so desperate for your company. I think this country is

:29:48. > :29:50.greater than that. I think my children deserve better than that. I

:29:51. > :29:55.think my daughter deserves better than that. I am ashamed, frankly,

:29:56. > :30:02.that it has come to this. We should think very carefully about a

:30:03. > :30:09.president whose attitude towards the press is what we are finding out.

:30:10. > :30:14.Borren,. We should think very carefully -- and torrent, frankly.

:30:15. > :30:19.Should think very carefully about a president who has said what this

:30:20. > :30:21.president has said, who has put simply people in fear, and for that

:30:22. > :30:23.reason we should not afford in fear, and for that reason we should not

:30:24. > :30:34.afforded a state visit. Having been born at the midpoint of

:30:35. > :30:38.the 20th century I think it's appropriate to look at what happened

:30:39. > :30:45.in Anglo-American relations or in European-American relations both

:30:46. > :30:53.before and after the 1950s. Before the 1950s, we had two opportunities

:30:54. > :31:01.for a world war and both times the world war II place. From the 1950s

:31:02. > :31:04.onward we had one opportunity for another world war and that World War

:31:05. > :31:13.II had not take place. Now, we can all have theories about why there

:31:14. > :31:20.were world wars in 1914 to 18, and 1939 to 1945, and why the Cold War

:31:21. > :31:27.did not become world war three. I will give you my theory, and my

:31:28. > :31:34.theory is this. That whereas in 1914 it was possible for an aggressor to

:31:35. > :31:43.think that it could pick off a small state like Belgium without

:31:44. > :31:46.triggering a conflict from day one with the United States of America,

:31:47. > :31:53.and whereas it was possible for an aggressor in 1939 to think that it

:31:54. > :32:00.could pick off a small state like Poland without triggering world war

:32:01. > :32:07.with the United States from day one, from the signing of the Nato treaty

:32:08. > :32:15.onwards in 1949, it was no longer possible for any aggressor to think

:32:16. > :32:20.that they could launch an attack against any European or non-European

:32:21. > :32:27.member state of Nato without immediately being at war with the

:32:28. > :32:33.world's greatest superpower. Now, for me, that is the single most

:32:34. > :32:38.important consideration. And this debate ought to be about more than

:32:39. > :32:46.the personal qualities of any individual. I would like you to ask

:32:47. > :32:53.yourself this as a matter of conscience. If you knew that it

:32:54. > :32:56.would make a significant difference to taking the new president of the

:32:57. > :33:07.United States of America, who is in some doubt about continuing the

:33:08. > :33:11.Alliance which prevented world War three, and which is our best

:33:12. > :33:15.guarantee of world War three not breaking out in the 21st-century

:33:16. > :33:19.either, if you knew that it would make a significant difference to

:33:20. > :33:26.bringing him on site to continue with the policies that prevented a

:33:27. > :33:32.conflagration on that scale, do you really think that it is more

:33:33. > :33:39.important to parade him, castigate him, and encourage him to retreat

:33:40. > :33:43.into some sort of bunker rather than to do what the Prime Minister did,

:33:44. > :33:49.perhaps more literally than any of us expected, which is to take him by

:33:50. > :33:55.the hand and try and lead him down the path of righteousness. Because I

:33:56. > :34:02.have no doubt at all about this matter. What really matters to the

:34:03. > :34:09.future of Europe is that the transatlantic alliance should

:34:10. > :34:14.continue and should prosper. And there is every prospect of that

:34:15. > :34:20.happening provided that we reach out to this inexperienced individual and

:34:21. > :34:26.try and persuade him, and there is every chance of persuading him that

:34:27. > :34:31.he should continue with the policy pursued by his predecessors. I think

:34:32. > :34:35.the honourable gentleman for giving way. I agree with him entirely and I

:34:36. > :34:39.think it is right and proper that we are debating this issue. Given his

:34:40. > :34:47.views, why does he support the speaker in saying that Trump should

:34:48. > :34:51.not come here? Well I am very pleased to say that this is a debate

:34:52. > :34:56.about President Trump and whether he should come here, and I believe that

:34:57. > :35:01.it is entirely right that President Trump should come here and therefore

:35:02. > :35:06.issues about any extraneous matters whatsoever are matters for debate

:35:07. > :35:12.perhaps at another time in another place, but not here or now today. I

:35:13. > :35:18.am grateful to the honourable gentleman for giving weight but I

:35:19. > :35:20.have to ask him, what basis does he think giving President Trump a state

:35:21. > :35:25.visit will have the effect he believes it will have. We've aurally

:35:26. > :35:28.told him he can have one and just this weekend we hear him talking

:35:29. > :35:34.about walking away from Nato against quite well I am not at all aware

:35:35. > :35:40.that he has talked about walking away from Nato. On the contrary he

:35:41. > :35:46.has made two criticisms of Nato. One is that he believes that Nato has

:35:47. > :35:52.adapted insufficiently to meet the threat of international terrorism

:35:53. > :35:57.and is too solely focused on state versus state confrontation, and the

:35:58. > :36:01.other criticism he has made is a criticism which, if it is extreme,

:36:02. > :36:06.then it's an extreme view shared by the Defence Select Committee, which

:36:07. > :36:12.is that countries are not spending enough on defence. And he is

:36:13. > :36:18.pointing out, quite rightly, as is his secretary of defence, at only

:36:19. > :36:27.five out of 28 Nato countries are paying even the 2% which is not a

:36:28. > :36:32.target, it is a minimum guideline. And the failure of Nato countries to

:36:33. > :36:37.protect themselves is something that has been remarked upon time and time

:36:38. > :36:42.and time again to no effect. And so I finish with this point. It may be

:36:43. > :36:48.strange to relate but stranger things have happened in history, it

:36:49. > :36:54.may be that the only way to get Nato countries to pay up what they ought

:36:55. > :36:58.to pay in order to get the huge advantage of the American defence

:36:59. > :37:02.contribution and they are spending three and a half percent of their

:37:03. > :37:05.much larger DDP while so many of our Nato fellow member countries are not

:37:06. > :37:12.even spending 2% of their much smaller GDP. If Donald Champ's

:37:13. > :37:16.threat is the only way to get them to pay up then Donald Trump,

:37:17. > :37:24.ironically, may end up being the saviour of Nato, not its nemesis. Mr

:37:25. > :37:30.Walker, I am particularly pleased to be able to attend the debate opened

:37:31. > :37:34.at length by the honourable member for Newport West. In fact here in

:37:35. > :37:39.the honourable member able to speak at length is justification in itself

:37:40. > :37:42.for this petition process. I particularly enjoyed his put-down of

:37:43. > :37:46.the whippersnappers on the Tory benches who are paying insignificant

:37:47. > :37:50.regard to the experience of the honourable member and of course Her

:37:51. > :37:55.Majesty the Queen, I thought that was one of the highlights of the

:37:56. > :37:58.debate thus far. I think it is difficult to know whether to be

:37:59. > :38:04.appalled at the morality of this invitation or just astonished at the

:38:05. > :38:08.stupidity of the invitation. As an example of fawning subservience, if

:38:09. > :38:13.I could disagree with my honourable friend for a second, Prime

:38:14. > :38:18.Minister's holding hands would be difficult to match. To do it in the

:38:19. > :38:23.name of shared values was stomach churning. What exactly are the

:38:24. > :38:30.shared values that this house, that this country would hope to have with

:38:31. > :38:33.President Trump? An example of what shared values are is a process

:38:34. > :38:38.fraught with danger, but the Prime Minister tried it when she was Home

:38:39. > :38:42.Secretary. She said things like democracy, belief in the rule of

:38:43. > :38:47.law, tolerance, equality and acceptance of other people's faith

:38:48. > :38:50.and religion. Now, which of these values as outlined by the Prime

:38:51. > :38:56.Minister has President Trump exemplified in his first 30 days in

:38:57. > :39:02.office? I think the right honourable friend for giving way. Would he

:39:03. > :39:07.agree with me that given President Trump's remarks about torture, his

:39:08. > :39:12.misogynistic stance against women as well as Muslims, that associating

:39:13. > :39:17.with him in the form of a state visit has huge amounts of damage to

:39:18. > :39:22.the Queen and our monarchy which is respected and revered around the

:39:23. > :39:26.world, and that the government should have a government to

:39:27. > :39:34.government visit, and leave Her Majesty out of this? I noted also

:39:35. > :39:37.that Trump's acolytes according to one newspaper report are starting to

:39:38. > :39:41.choose which members of the Royal family they would meet on a state

:39:42. > :39:45.visit. He wasn't going to meet Prince Charles in case the

:39:46. > :39:50.conversation turned to the issue of climate change. I do think this is a

:39:51. > :39:53.world first, somebody being accorded a state visit picking and choosing

:39:54. > :40:00.which members of the Royal family he might expect to meet. When he met

:40:01. > :40:04.Donald Trump and welcomed him in Scotland, did he expressed the same

:40:05. > :40:09.views? I have met Donald Trump more than once which will give me an

:40:10. > :40:11.advantage over, I think, every other member in this chamber, I have also

:40:12. > :40:16.negotiated with Donald Trump which will give me an additional

:40:17. > :40:20.advantage. Because what you should remember about President Trump, he

:40:21. > :40:24.is not a stupid man. And the belief that he has forgotten what was

:40:25. > :40:29.actually said about him by the Prime Minister when he was a candidate is

:40:30. > :40:33.nonsensical, or indeed the Foreign Secretary when he said he would not

:40:34. > :40:36.go to New York unless he was confused. To believe that Donald

:40:37. > :40:42.Trump has forgotten these things is to seriously underrate the man's

:40:43. > :40:48.intelligence. If I could paraphrase PG Woodhouse, it is not difficult to

:40:49. > :40:53.tell the difference between a ray of sunshine and Donald Trump's

:40:54. > :40:56.grievance, and I can bring experience to that. And that brings

:40:57. > :41:01.me to the act of stupidity involved in this invitation. Even when people

:41:02. > :41:08.are in a weak negotiating position as the UK is at the present moment,

:41:09. > :41:11.thanks to the nonsensical decision to invoke Article 50 without at

:41:12. > :41:17.least having some idea where the negotiations are going to end up,

:41:18. > :41:22.IAC Brexiteers shaking their heads. I was quoting almost exactly from

:41:23. > :41:27.the vote leave website who said that doing that would be like putting a

:41:28. > :41:31.gun to your head. Unfortunately that's exactly what the government

:41:32. > :41:35.have chosen to do. To actually put yourself in that week negotiating

:41:36. > :41:41.position and to advertise it so blatantly to President Trump as the

:41:42. > :41:46.Prime Minister managed to do is a recipe for total and utter disaster,

:41:47. > :41:50.from my experience with negotiating with Donald Trump, let me tell the

:41:51. > :41:57.honourable member, never ever do it from a weak position. Because the

:41:58. > :42:02.result will be total disaster. Justin Trudeau, like the Prime

:42:03. > :42:06.Minister, is relatively new in office, yet he has demonstrated how

:42:07. > :42:10.to pursue a business relationship while keeping Canada's integrity

:42:11. > :42:14.intact. The prime ministers should take note, written and the state

:42:15. > :42:19.visit before more embarrassment is caused in this country. It has been

:42:20. > :42:25.mentioned in this debate, to actually allow this process to be

:42:26. > :42:31.the pretext for another assault on the speaker is beyond madness in

:42:32. > :42:36.this place. The gunpowder plot, this new one, will fizzle out just as

:42:37. > :42:40.surely as the last one did. What we should demand from Mr Speaker is

:42:41. > :42:48.fairness to all parts of the house, the ability for all people to be

:42:49. > :42:52.heard... Will use it down, I don't want to shout. We are not having a

:42:53. > :42:57.debate about the speaker, you have made your point, can you return to

:42:58. > :43:03.the substance of the debate which is Trump's visit. I was responding to a

:43:04. > :43:06.point you are allowed to be made in the debate already and stating my

:43:07. > :43:09.opinion that this house across all parties will not allow this

:43:10. > :43:18.particular speaker to be removed on this issue I think is perfectly in

:43:19. > :43:21.order. So therefore, the process of basing the shared values that we are

:43:22. > :43:27.meant to have with the united states, and the point was well made

:43:28. > :43:31.by the member for Newport West that this president in 30 days has

:43:32. > :43:35.managed to achieve a record low in the Gallup ratings. The United

:43:36. > :43:39.States of America is not being invited a state visit, the state

:43:40. > :43:44.visit is to the individual. And to confuse the two is a serious come a

:43:45. > :43:49.serious mistake by honourable members and others who support this

:43:50. > :43:54.particular offer. Secondly, Mr Walker, not to recognise from all

:43:55. > :43:58.experience of negotiating with this particular man, to do so from a

:43:59. > :44:03.position of weakness will not result in some face-saving life-saving

:44:04. > :44:09.augmented trade deal, it will be a root and a recipe to total disaster

:44:10. > :44:11.for this country. This invitation for the state visit should be

:44:12. > :44:19.rescinded before any further damage is caused. It is a pleasure to serve

:44:20. > :44:26.under your highly tuned chairmanship. I must admit I don't

:44:27. > :44:31.normally speak on foreign policy matters but I feel duty bound to

:44:32. > :44:34.speak. Because so many of my constituents have signed the

:44:35. > :44:38.position. I have to say to those who have, I do have sympathy with them

:44:39. > :44:43.and they are entitled to do that. I'm talking about the petition

:44:44. > :44:46.against the state visit. As has been said, some of the things said by

:44:47. > :44:50.Donald Trump are extremely offensive. What concerns me the

:44:51. > :44:55.points of substance, such as ambiguity about Nato. But it seems

:44:56. > :45:00.to me that what we are debating here is about UK foreign policy. To me,

:45:01. > :45:04.foreign policy for this country is best served in following national

:45:05. > :45:08.interest, not through gestures or knee jerk reactions. From calm,

:45:09. > :45:10.effective diplomacy in the old-fashioned way on the

:45:11. > :45:16.behind-the-scenes, and working towards a long-term strategy rather

:45:17. > :45:18.than something which frankly has the tone of student politics and would

:45:19. > :45:24.be a gesture that would get us nowhere. In my view we need to focus

:45:25. > :45:27.on the strategic point. There are two points to that, the first is the

:45:28. > :45:32.recognition that we need to be as close to this administration as

:45:33. > :45:36.possible. If we have concerns about President Trump, we should be in

:45:37. > :45:39.there trying to shape the administration rather than receiving

:45:40. > :45:49.an offer that was sent and accepted in good faith.

:45:50. > :45:55.We will gain nothing from it if we withdraw that offer. I'll tell you

:45:56. > :46:01.who will win, one man will win and that's Vladimir Putin. There will be

:46:02. > :46:04.smiles in the Kremlin if we followed this petition, because the one thing

:46:05. > :46:09.they want in the Kremlin above all else is to divide the West. They

:46:10. > :46:15.want the UK and the US to be divided. They don't want a strong

:46:16. > :46:19.transatlantic partnership. It is in the global interest and we would be

:46:20. > :46:23.crackers to do so. Having said that, I would offer a state visit to

:46:24. > :46:28.Vladimir Putin, as was done by Tony Blair. That's despite the fact that

:46:29. > :46:33.Russian Bear bombers are buzzing our airspace, that they have nuclear

:46:34. > :46:36.missiles pointed at us. That's precisely why we do it, because we

:46:37. > :46:46.want to influence the administration. I give way. Was he

:46:47. > :46:50.not buoyed up that Donald Trump has taken quite the opposite position to

:46:51. > :46:54.Obama, who came here during our referendum and told us we'd be at

:46:55. > :46:58.the back of the queue for a trade deal, tried to influence our

:46:59. > :47:04.referendum, and yet Donald Trump has said he wants to see us at the front

:47:05. > :47:08.of a trade deal? Of course, the referendum is done and dusted and we

:47:09. > :47:12.have some interesting days ahead in the Other Place about that. I'd

:47:13. > :47:17.simply say, when President Obama spoke on it, I have to say as

:47:18. > :47:22.someone who campaigned Remain, it was a gifted the Leaver campaign. We

:47:23. > :47:26.are talking about the issue today which is Donald Trump. I would

:47:27. > :47:30.invite Vladimir Putin for a state visit because they can say offensive

:47:31. > :47:36.things, they can represent terrible values, Russia is not a serious

:47:37. > :47:38.democracy with a terrible human rights record, but our foreign

:47:39. > :47:42.policy is about the national interest of the UK, and that means

:47:43. > :47:45.being as strong as possible, but having as much influence on those

:47:46. > :47:49.countries who are the major players in the globe. I conclude by saying

:47:50. > :47:54.that we should serve this country Best by sticking to an invitation we

:47:55. > :48:02.made instead of making ourselves look a laughing stock to the

:48:03. > :48:06.countries that matter. I want to thank my honourable neighbour and

:48:07. > :48:12.friend the member of the Newport West for his opening to this debate

:48:13. > :48:16.and two petitions. I'm delighted that my own constituents, nearly

:48:17. > :48:21.4000 of them, have signed the petition arguing Donald Trump

:48:22. > :48:24.shouldn't be given a state visit. That has tallied with the concerns

:48:25. > :48:28.I'd had raised with me in person over recent weeks, that I've also

:48:29. > :48:34.had from those who contacted me directly about the matter. I know

:48:35. > :48:40.where my constituents firmly stand on this issue. But I stand on this

:48:41. > :48:47.issue also because I love America. I love Americans, I have travelled to

:48:48. > :48:52.25 of the 50 United States. My own grandfather was an American GI who

:48:53. > :48:57.came over in 1944 to help us fight the Nazis. We don't know much about

:48:58. > :49:01.him but he came over here, and I've walked with honourable members

:49:02. > :49:04.opposite along the beaches of Normandy and other places where the

:49:05. > :49:09.sacrifice of so many Americans was given in servers of the freedoms of

:49:10. > :49:13.Europe and our country. I believe we should have contact with any at

:49:14. > :49:17.American administration, as much as I disagreed fundamentally with the

:49:18. > :49:19.policies and actions of George Secretary of State for Exiting the

:49:20. > :49:33.EU Bush, I was disappointed that turned the many into a wider strand

:49:34. > :49:36.of anti-Americanism. America espouses liberty, equality and an

:49:37. > :49:39.optimistic government, allowing people to their freedom whether

:49:40. > :49:47.that's in the press, in the courts or the of democracy at State, local

:49:48. > :49:50.or federal level. It is for that reason I feel deeply concerned and

:49:51. > :49:53.frightened when I see the principles on which the Constitution was

:49:54. > :50:01.developed by the founding fathers being put under questioning by a

:50:02. > :50:06.President. We've seen attacks on the press, on the judiciary, an

:50:07. > :50:11.religious freedoms, and it's that but I am most worried and most

:50:12. > :50:17.fearful. I think we are right to be. I will give way. Would he not agree

:50:18. > :50:21.with me that this is as much about our Prime Minister as it is about

:50:22. > :50:26.the American President, and this apparent cosying up to people with

:50:27. > :50:35.questionable values or records, not only Trump but Erdogan the day

:50:36. > :50:39.after. This seems to have compromised our ability to be a

:50:40. > :50:48.critical friend. It's not an easy job to be a Prime Minister. Often we

:50:49. > :50:52.have to have contact with people we might fundamentally disagree with.

:50:53. > :50:55.Herein lies the fundamental point. This isn't about whether Donald

:50:56. > :50:58.Trump should be banned from this country or whether our government

:50:59. > :51:02.should not have contact with him. It's absolutely right the Prime

:51:03. > :51:05.Minister should meet with the President to discuss matters of

:51:06. > :51:09.mutual interest. But we choose who we honour. We choose the way in

:51:10. > :51:13.which we honour. We choose the way in which we decide to negotiate. I

:51:14. > :51:19.noticed the comments made by the honourable member former leader of

:51:20. > :51:23.the SNP. We choose how we engage on those issues. I think Prime Minister

:51:24. > :51:27.Trudeau has shown a different way of dealing with President Trump where

:51:28. > :51:34.he has been able to retain his integrity. For me that is the

:51:35. > :51:41.fundamental issue at stake. We rushed into offering the razzmatazz,

:51:42. > :51:44.the champagne, the red carpet, even if you were the ultimate pragmatist

:51:45. > :51:50.and the matters of equality or standing against torture, racism or

:51:51. > :51:53.sexism didn't matter to you, even as the ultimate pragmatist, that isn't

:51:54. > :51:58.a sensible negotiating strategy. Giving it all up in week one without

:51:59. > :52:09.any questions asked, how can that make sense to anybody? One of the

:52:10. > :52:14.most important things here was, certainly when President Obama was

:52:15. > :52:19.invited here, he was the first Afro American President. Obama stood for

:52:20. > :52:24.something totally different. Donald Trump doesn't seem to share our

:52:25. > :52:30.values so far, so we should have waited at least two years to see how

:52:31. > :52:32.his presidency pans out. Indeed, and that's why I've spoken out so

:52:33. > :52:36.strongly on the issue of using Westminster Hall and the Palace of

:52:37. > :52:40.Westminster, given that it's the place where President Mandela

:52:41. > :52:46.addresses DOS, where President Obama addressed us, where Pope Benedict

:52:47. > :52:52.Kane, where Churchill lay in state. I'm delighted it is the most signed

:52:53. > :52:57.at the moment in this session of Parliament. I wish to make a brief

:52:58. > :53:02.point about the wider issue of state visits. State visits, I think we

:53:03. > :53:05.need to look at again. Many people rightly pointed out who we have

:53:06. > :53:12.offered state visits to in the past and whether that was right. There

:53:13. > :53:18.were protests when... I have strongly disagreed with the way we

:53:19. > :53:22.have behaved with the monarchies in the Gulf. I'm concerned at the way

:53:23. > :53:28.we seem to have turned a blind eye on a series of issues and I think we

:53:29. > :53:33.need to look very, very carefully at the way we choose to use a

:53:34. > :53:36.significant amount of taxpayers money, and looking at the types of

:53:37. > :53:46.visits we offer. Many of us would question whether the Burmese Prime

:53:47. > :53:49.Minister should have addressed us. Just because we've got things wrong

:53:50. > :53:54.in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't get things right in the

:53:55. > :53:57.future. I think we have a special responsibility when it comes to the

:53:58. > :54:03.special relationship, when it comes to that relationship with our

:54:04. > :54:07.greatest ally and friend. We cannot accept the denigration of a free

:54:08. > :54:12.press, denigration of a judiciary, denigration of women, religious

:54:13. > :54:16.minorities, the banning of refugees, the application of torture as the

:54:17. > :54:20.new normal. We cannot accept those things, it wouldn't be acceptable

:54:21. > :54:24.from any country but it certainly shouldn't be acceptable from our

:54:25. > :54:27.greatest ally, and one of those countries that has frequently stood

:54:28. > :54:32.up for the values of liberty, equality and democracy. That is why

:54:33. > :54:35.we have a special responsibility, and is why we have a special

:54:36. > :54:39.responsibility in this House to speak out. I have great faith

:54:40. > :54:42.ultimately in the American Constitution and the way it was set

:54:43. > :54:47.up. James Maddison said, and elective despotism was not the

:54:48. > :54:53.government we fought for but one in which the powers of government

:54:54. > :54:56.should be so divided and balanced, so that no one can transcend their

:54:57. > :55:02.legal limits without being effectively checked and restraint by

:55:03. > :55:08.the others. We too should check and balance our ally, offering up a

:55:09. > :55:10.state visit and all those honours in week one of his already turbulent

:55:11. > :55:24.presidency, isn't the way to do that. Thank you. I guess I should

:55:25. > :55:29.start by declaring an interest. Not simply do I have a deep antipathy

:55:30. > :55:33.towards President Trump, but I was prepared to do more than just talk

:55:34. > :55:39.about it, and I spent a considerable amount of time last year working for

:55:40. > :55:44.Hillary Clinton on her presidential election in New Hampshire, Wisconsin

:55:45. > :55:48.and South Carolina. I believed, as President Obama did, throughout the

:55:49. > :55:56.2016 campaign when he said that she was" the most qualified candidates

:55:57. > :56:02.to run for President in the 20th century". And, it deeply grieves me

:56:03. > :56:09.as every day goes by, not least the last seven days, to see, sadly, what

:56:10. > :56:14.opportunity America passed up for the person that they chose. But we

:56:15. > :56:20.are where we are. Because of course, she did get 2.8 million more votes,

:56:21. > :56:23.but the Americans do not elect their President through who gets the most

:56:24. > :56:28.votes but through the electoral college, those are the rules so

:56:29. > :56:36.there is no point in crying over spilt milk. I won't rehearse all the

:56:37. > :56:39.reasons why any reasonable person should have significant doubts about

:56:40. > :56:48.Donald Trump, because they are, sadly, far too well known. But what

:56:49. > :56:55.I do believe, is that America is our greatest ally. It has been for a

:56:56. > :57:02.considerable amount of time. It has stood by us shoulder to shoulder in

:57:03. > :57:11.our hour of need, as we did in their hour of need, particularly during

:57:12. > :57:17.9/11. So it is to my mind foolish to allow our personal views and

:57:18. > :57:19.assessments of an individual, and some of their more grotesque

:57:20. > :57:29.characteristics or behaviour, to blur what is, in Britain's national

:57:30. > :57:34.interest. And what I believe this Britain's national interest is to

:57:35. > :57:40.continue that special relationship, as we have done and most prime

:57:41. > :57:49.ministers the Second World War, with probably the exception of Sir Edward

:57:50. > :57:53.Heath, to ensure... I'm very grateful to you forgiving way and I

:57:54. > :57:56.know his deep affection for the United States, and indeed I've been

:57:57. > :58:01.with him at Democratic conventions in the past. But is the natural

:58:02. > :58:07.conclusion of his argument that almost, the more offensive, the

:58:08. > :58:11.American President, the more concerned we are as a nation about

:58:12. > :58:17.who gets elected, the quicker we should rush to give them a state

:58:18. > :58:22.visit? Because as the debate really about the nature with which Donald

:58:23. > :58:25.Trump should come to this country? If the right honourable gentleman

:58:26. > :58:31.would bear with me I will get onto the timings. He raises a valid

:58:32. > :58:36.point. But what I was saying was, regardless of what we may think or

:58:37. > :58:44.not think of Donald Trump as a man, I believe it is in our national

:58:45. > :58:52.interest to ensure that we can continue to be a candid friend to

:58:53. > :58:56.the United States, a candid friend who is respected by the United

:58:57. > :59:02.States, and has the ability to be able to talk to them candidly, to

:59:03. > :59:07.explain to them when we believe they may be getting it wrong, or where

:59:08. > :59:14.they could be doing it better, or, where we can ensure that they can

:59:15. > :59:20.moderate their views to something more in keeping with what we believe

:59:21. > :59:27.is dignified and the correct way to behave. We cannot do that if we just

:59:28. > :59:31.totally ignore the United States, the presidency, and save the man is

:59:32. > :59:36.dreadful, so we will have nothing to do with him. We would become

:59:37. > :59:42.isolated, we would become less influential, and it wouldn't be in

:59:43. > :59:46.national interest. A number of honourable members during the course

:59:47. > :59:54.of this debate have questioned the timing. Quite frankly, I don't think

:59:55. > :59:58.it really matters when one issue is an invitation if one is trying to

:59:59. > :00:03.protect, develop our national interest.

:00:04. > :00:11.Whether it is seven days into a presidency, he will be criticised.

:00:12. > :00:14.If you do it in 2020, you will be criticised for playing around with

:00:15. > :00:21.the American electoral system and trying to help the man in his

:00:22. > :00:27.presumed re-election bid. For the last time. Delaying the invitation

:00:28. > :00:31.for a state visit would at least have the advantage of knowing the

:00:32. > :00:38.president would still be there. Mr Simon Burns. The right honourable

:00:39. > :00:42.gentleman may be better at looking into a crystal balls and I. None of

:00:43. > :00:48.us, frankly, could predict what is going to happen next week, let alone

:00:49. > :00:52.next year, the year after order you're after. The right honourable

:00:53. > :00:56.gentleman might be right. I do not think the beginning has been

:00:57. > :01:03.auspicious in any shape or form. And I always, it is a bit like the

:01:04. > :01:07.Bible, one always admire as a sinner who repent. We will have to see

:01:08. > :01:14.whether the people around President Trump are able to moderate him and

:01:15. > :01:18.guide him. I am not convinced that they will be as successful as some

:01:19. > :01:22.others think. But that is not the point. The point is that whenever

:01:23. > :01:27.the invitation was extended for whenever it takes place, there will

:01:28. > :01:31.be criticism for those who wish to criticise. And I think we have got

:01:32. > :01:37.to rise above that. What we have got to do is look at what is going to be

:01:38. > :01:43.most helpful for Britain, for its future policy and development, and I

:01:44. > :01:48.think it is a no-brainer that working closely with the United

:01:49. > :01:54.States is far more important for this country, particularly as we

:01:55. > :02:02.begin negotiations and the exit from the EU in two, two and a half years'

:02:03. > :02:06.time, we cannot afford to be isolated and to ignore our friends

:02:07. > :02:12.and just stand there alone in thinking that we are going to ensure

:02:13. > :02:18.that everything works out all right. Because more often than not it will

:02:19. > :02:22.not. Loyalty has always been eight seamark of this country, whether it

:02:23. > :02:26.be under a Conservative president, foreign, Prime Minister, or a labour

:02:27. > :02:30.Prime Minister. -- been eight seamark for this country. Some

:02:31. > :02:37.people will argue that in some towns we have been too loyal, I will not

:02:38. > :02:40.intrude with grief to 2001-2006, but that was a difficult time and maybe

:02:41. > :02:45.we got it wrong in the way in which we talked as a candid friend to the

:02:46. > :02:52.previous part one president. But we all learn from mistakes. And I

:02:53. > :02:55.believe that we have the opportunity, by giving respect to

:02:56. > :02:58.the institution of the presidency of the United States from the start,

:02:59. > :03:05.and continuing to work with the United States, that it will pay

:03:06. > :03:09.benefit for this country, for America and that it is the right

:03:10. > :03:12.thing to do and that the state visit should go ahead. Although I have to

:03:13. > :03:18.say, and it may come as a surprise to some, I do agree with the Speaker

:03:19. > :03:23.that there should not be an address down in Westminster Hall for a joint

:03:24. > :03:31.session of Parliament. Thank you, Mr Walker. This is a subject we have

:03:32. > :03:34.debated many times since Donald Trump was inaugurated a month ago

:03:35. > :03:37.today. I would like to take this opportunity to thank every single

:03:38. > :03:41.one of my constituents who has used this petition to have their voice

:03:42. > :03:47.heard. Just over 3500 constituents have signed the petition to prevent

:03:48. > :03:51.the state visit, nearly 60 people in every 1000 registered voters in the

:03:52. > :03:55.constituency. In the last 31 days, what we have seen has in many ways

:03:56. > :03:58.been chilling. The executive orders that have dominated his first weeks

:03:59. > :04:02.in the White House have been frightening. And the question many

:04:03. > :04:06.of us are asking, where does this slippery slope really lead? If we

:04:07. > :04:11.take only one of the groups of people he has fought to divide,

:04:12. > :04:15.those of the Muslim faith, not necessarily distinct to one country

:04:16. > :04:20.or another, his rhetoric has been so broad that even I personally am as a

:04:21. > :04:24.Muslim, feel attacked and misrepresented. And no doubt many of

:04:25. > :04:28.my constituents who make wonderful observations to this country on a

:04:29. > :04:32.daily basis feel the same way. We have to take every opportunity to

:04:33. > :04:36.show that his negativity and divisive messages are not going to

:04:37. > :04:41.divide us, and just as importantly, we cannot let them divide us.

:04:42. > :04:47.British Muslims make an invaluable contribution to the UK as a whole in

:04:48. > :04:49.all forms and walks of life, from doctors to teachers, business

:04:50. > :04:54.owners, professionals, and add an immense cultural value to the rich

:04:55. > :04:58.fabric of modern British life. To allow Donald trump the space to

:04:59. > :05:03.provide a group that play such a huge role would be a shame upon us

:05:04. > :05:07.all. The report in 2013 by the Muslim Council of Britain tried to

:05:08. > :05:11.beat an economic value that might put an economic value on the impact

:05:12. > :05:16.British Muslims make to the UK. The report showed that they make an

:05:17. > :05:19.estimated ?31 billion plus contribution to our economy, and

:05:20. > :05:29.that as a group of over ?20.5 billion in spending power. Just in

:05:30. > :05:34.London alone, nearly 13,500 Muslim - owned businesses create over 70,000

:05:35. > :05:37.jobs. This shows a glimpse of the real invite Muslims have in this

:05:38. > :05:42.country. This is how Muslims should be portrayed, not the fearful,

:05:43. > :05:47.racist, bigoted views of somebody who has used fear to win votes. Will

:05:48. > :05:54.she give way? I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Does she

:05:55. > :06:01.agree with me that it is deeply saddening, and shameful, that

:06:02. > :06:07.colleagues who are defending this visit are not recognising the

:06:08. > :06:10.serious concerns people have, particularly Muslims, but many other

:06:11. > :06:16.communities, about the dangers of the rhetoric of Donald Trump? And it

:06:17. > :06:22.is time they spoke out against that kind of hostility. It is deeply

:06:23. > :06:26.divisive and it is time the address this issue, instead of making

:06:27. > :06:32.excuses and being apologists for his hatred. I thank my honourable friend

:06:33. > :06:37.for making the very valid point and absolutely concur. Last year, when

:06:38. > :06:40.we first debated a potential ban... I will happily take up the

:06:41. > :06:44.challenge. His attitude to Muslims is an outrage. What is most

:06:45. > :06:49.outrageous if it is totally lacking in evidence, because all the deaths

:06:50. > :06:53.caused by terrorist on US soil since 9/11 have been caused by US citizens

:06:54. > :06:57.or residents, and the 911 attacks were caused by people from outside

:06:58. > :07:01.the US, but none of those seven countries. Not only is prejudiced

:07:02. > :07:07.but lacks any evidence. I thank the honourable gentleman for

:07:08. > :07:11.making those very valid points. I continue, last year, when we first

:07:12. > :07:16.debated a potential ban in this very chamber, I went on public record and

:07:17. > :07:20.said that I wanted Trump to come. I wanted him to visit Bradford,

:07:21. > :07:26.Bradford West, I wanted to take him out for a curry! I wanted him to see

:07:27. > :07:30.what contribution Muslims make to this country and to my constituency.

:07:31. > :07:35.I wanted him to meet real Muslims, not the ones he has invented for his

:07:36. > :07:40.own end, I wanted him to walk down the street and meet people such as

:07:41. > :07:46.the Chief Superintendent born in my constituency, taken the skills and

:07:47. > :07:53.meet Muslim headteachers and that health professionals, like Sahara,

:07:54. > :07:56.and the Muslims on the front line of our health care service. I wanted to

:07:57. > :08:01.see some of the tremendous businesses in my constituency being

:08:02. > :08:05.run by Muslims, providing and growth, like la la's and many

:08:06. > :08:10.others. I wanted to show the world of the cultural impact Muslims play

:08:11. > :08:13.on my constituency, through things like the amazing Bradford literature

:08:14. > :08:19.festival that is run by two extraordinary Muslim woman. The

:08:20. > :08:25.annual world curry festival, organised by a Muslim man. But to do

:08:26. > :08:32.so now, Mr Walker, now that he is president, will only reinforce and

:08:33. > :08:36.condone his actions, if devices -- is divisive, racist and picture

:08:37. > :08:39.messages. This is what he stands for and what he represents at this

:08:40. > :08:44.moment and this flies in the face of everything we stand for. Everything

:08:45. > :08:49.we thought we shared. We cannot support what he is doing by offering

:08:50. > :08:55.him legitimacy. My honourable friend touched on double standards. The

:08:56. > :08:59.difference in this conversation here is that the British people are aware

:09:00. > :09:04.of the human rights violations about the misogyny that happens when we

:09:05. > :09:10.offered a visit by the Chinese premier. Pointing out all of that,

:09:11. > :09:15.we do not look to China for its record or advice and support on

:09:16. > :09:18.human rights records, or on how to treat women. We do not do that. But

:09:19. > :09:24.we do look to America. We do look to the United States of America, the

:09:25. > :09:30.leader of the free world, to support us in those shared values. What this

:09:31. > :09:34.president does not represent if those shared values that belong to

:09:35. > :09:38.us, that belong to this House, that we have seen. My children have even

:09:39. > :09:44.seen the movies where women throwing themselves on these cobbles outside

:09:45. > :09:48.to get the right to vote in this country. We have seen what has

:09:49. > :09:51.happened with the civil rights movement. We cannot... When I spoke

:09:52. > :09:57.about this in the main chamber, I talked about of the three steps to

:09:58. > :10:01.genocide as defined on Holocaust Memorial Day in the booklet. I can

:10:02. > :10:06.tell you, we are already on sale three. So when the honourable

:10:07. > :10:10.gentleman tells me I'll be stopping Walt was he? Actually, what are we

:10:11. > :10:14.contributing to by allowing President, to continue in that

:10:15. > :10:20.rhetoric which divides people and tell those that Muslims are the

:10:21. > :10:24.enemy within. That is me as a Muslim in this House. I am not an enemy to

:10:25. > :10:29.Western democracy. CHEERING

:10:30. > :10:33.I am part of Western democracy. I thought my election really hard, I

:10:34. > :10:37.fought against all of them things, that bigotry, sexism, the patriarch

:10:38. > :10:42.eighth, two in my place in this size. By Donald Trump, a state visit

:10:43. > :10:45.and bringing out the crockery, China, the red carpet, what we are

:10:46. > :10:49.doing is endorsing all of those views, all those things that I

:10:50. > :10:54.fought hard against and saying, "Do you know what? It is OK." I

:10:55. > :10:57.absolutely thank the millions who have found this petition. My

:10:58. > :11:03.heartfelt thanks to them and I really do hope we do not honour this

:11:04. > :11:07.president. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the invitation to take part in

:11:08. > :11:11.this debate so energetically opened by the honourable gentleman for

:11:12. > :11:14.Newport West. He referred to the legal Prime Minister and I am

:11:15. > :11:18.looking forward to the good authority she's going to exert when

:11:19. > :11:22.she is not quite so beleaguered! That made our beleaguered Prim

:11:23. > :11:27.Minister. I am still flying over his borders on power but will come back

:11:28. > :11:34.to the power exercised by the president. -- I am still confused by

:11:35. > :11:38.his power. This invitation has been issued, issued in the name of Her

:11:39. > :11:41.Majesty and if we want to find a way of embarrassing her, withdrawing

:11:42. > :11:48.that invitation would be the quickest way about it. So, we are

:11:49. > :11:51.left in a situation where, look, formerly the word TO stay but also

:11:52. > :11:58.that of the United Kingdom is now engaged. Now let's get on to the

:11:59. > :12:03.realpolitik behind this. -- it is very likely that opening up the

:12:04. > :12:08.possibility of a possibility of a state visit secured our Prim

:12:09. > :12:11.minister the first call on the newly elected president of United States.

:12:12. > :12:16.And during the course of that visit, she got the incredibly important

:12:17. > :12:26.assurance around me so expressly referred to by the chairman of the

:12:27. > :12:28.defence committee. -- around ten two. Right honourable gentleman

:12:29. > :12:32.being interviewed on radio Scotland and said it, that it was very likely

:12:33. > :12:38.that Theresa May had used the offer of a state visit to security first

:12:39. > :12:44.visit to Tom. Can he come what is in for that statement as? -- visit to

:12:45. > :12:47.come. I am simply using my own experience of my career as to how

:12:48. > :12:51.these matters are arranged, and therefore what might have happened.

:12:52. > :12:57.I am happy to confirm that I have no first-hand evidence of the

:12:58. > :12:59.discussions so I am merely using my experience as to what might have

:13:00. > :13:06.happened. However, is she secured that first visit and she secured the

:13:07. > :13:11.undertaking about Nato with immense importance to the security of

:13:12. > :13:13.Europe. She got a reaffirmation of the special relationship, by being

:13:14. > :13:18.the first foreign leader to visit him, and also the day before, she

:13:19. > :13:22.related she had a spectacularly successful visit to address the

:13:23. > :13:28.Republican caucus in Philadelphia. And here we need to understand what

:13:29. > :13:32.is going on. We are dealing with a president who is the first

:13:33. > :13:37.nonpolitician, and the first non-service man to be elected to the

:13:38. > :13:41.office. He is definitively different. And in an exercise of

:13:42. > :13:47.pressing the right buttons to engage him, I think dangling a state visit

:13:48. > :13:50.in front of a half Scottish president of the United States, his

:13:51. > :13:53.mother had an immense attachment to the country, was a very successful

:13:54. > :14:00.use of the kind of soft power that the United Kingdom has. But it is --

:14:01. > :14:04.but as well as securing the undertaking around Nato, let's

:14:05. > :14:07.understand the checks and balances that this president will have to

:14:08. > :14:10.operate under. First of all, he is going to need to operate under the

:14:11. > :14:15.checks and balances that come from the Congress, and the Republican

:14:16. > :14:18.caucus in the Congress is going to be immensely important in that. For

:14:19. > :14:24.our Prime Minister to have secured a place where she has an opportunity

:14:25. > :14:28.then to be in effect putting our case, which might also be aligned

:14:29. > :14:33.with the case of the State Department, the Pentagon and the

:14:34. > :14:38.CIA, into the White House, as the right honourable gentleman is

:14:39. > :14:43.brief... He continues to seriously underweight president Trump. The

:14:44. > :14:48.idea that this president is going to have things determined by anything

:14:49. > :14:54.of than his own interests and what he perceives the American interest

:14:55. > :14:57.to be in the mistake of such naivete that explains the fact that he

:14:58. > :15:12.managed to get into the white House and the first place.

:15:13. > :15:23.He is then issuing these undisciplined statements. What does

:15:24. > :15:30.he has to say about torture,? I was told by LG BT friends of mine he was

:15:31. > :15:34.about to rescind the employment protection for LG BT people in the

:15:35. > :15:39.United States. He did not. We have then seen what happened on the road

:15:40. > :15:46.between his national security adviser and his vice president, who

:15:47. > :15:52.won out? His vice president. If we look at the immigration man, that is

:15:53. > :15:56.being overturned by another element of the separation of powers in the

:15:57. > :16:02.United States by the judges. So we are seeing the development of this

:16:03. > :16:04.administration, under this extraordinary unprecedented election

:16:05. > :16:12.of this individual to the presidency. I will not because I am

:16:13. > :16:20.now out of injury time. The point I am making, this is early days, we

:16:21. > :16:24.are beginning to say the necessity for a disciplined administration

:16:25. > :16:30.begin to crowd in on this president. Who was the heaviest develops and it

:16:31. > :16:37.is incredibly important our Prime Minister has secured the first voice

:16:38. > :16:41.of a foreign leader. -- we've all seen how this develops. The truth is

:16:42. > :16:47.we need to calm this debate and take the hype out of it. I do not just

:16:48. > :16:52.mean the debate in the chamber but the national debate. The invitation

:16:53. > :16:57.has been issued, I do not think it could or should be rescinded

:16:58. > :17:00.properly so that is the proper -- possibility the invitation will be

:17:01. > :17:09.taken up in the course of this year. I think that will be a mistake. We

:17:10. > :17:13.need to point out that in 2020, we will have the 400th anniversary of

:17:14. > :17:17.the Pilgrim Fathers. Incredibly important in the United States and

:17:18. > :17:21.it would be an utterly important movement to be marked to a state

:17:22. > :17:27.visit to United Kingdom by whoever is ahead of the American state at

:17:28. > :17:32.the time. I think we focus bit administration on that opportunity,

:17:33. > :17:38.I head of government visit this year would be entirely appropriate. If we

:17:39. > :17:43.do not take the hype out of this debate, with all the people who sign

:17:44. > :17:48.this petition, there is every possibility that this visit will be

:17:49. > :17:51.a rallying point for everyone who is unhappy with the direction of

:17:52. > :17:57.American policy and British policy and we will be left with the poor

:17:58. > :18:05.old commissioner of the net with a significant public order issued to

:18:06. > :18:08.manage. -- Commissioner of the Metropolitan police. I think that is

:18:09. > :18:12.an opportunity to celebrate a great anniversary in British and American

:18:13. > :18:18.relations and extract ourselves from the practical difficulty of this

:18:19. > :18:26.invitation being issued. If you ask me if the issue of that invitation

:18:27. > :18:29.cots as are re-enforcement of the special Administration between

:18:30. > :18:35.America and Great Britain and an opportunity for us to reinforce

:18:36. > :18:39.devices into the White House, from the State Department, the Pentagon

:18:40. > :18:47.and the CIA, that was infinitely the right thing to do. A number of

:18:48. > :18:50.colleagues who have already spoken are intervening and if they could

:18:51. > :18:57.desist, we might get everyone into the debate. The stalker, it is a

:18:58. > :19:03.pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. -- Mr Walker. I am

:19:04. > :19:07.delighted to speak on behalf of my constituents who signed the

:19:08. > :19:12.petition. As well as a large amount to said they did not want to sign

:19:13. > :19:17.that petition but strongly objected to a state visit taking place. Many

:19:18. > :19:21.contacted me and said they had never signed a petition before but felt

:19:22. > :19:27.this was wrong and they had done so now. What an earth have we come to

:19:28. > :19:31.that the UK government should for one second think it was appropriate

:19:32. > :19:38.to reward the discrete full statements and actions of President

:19:39. > :19:42.Trump with the state visit? A state visit with all the pomp and ceremony

:19:43. > :19:47.of the British establishment. It is hugely depressing to hear those on

:19:48. > :19:51.the Conservative benches to support the state visit tell us today it is

:19:52. > :19:56.important we engage with President Tron because America is our friend.

:19:57. > :20:05.So it is but that is why we should challenge this. President Trump's

:20:06. > :20:14.administration so far has been characterised by discrimination and

:20:15. > :20:19.prejudice. It is simply racism. The Prime Minister has decided that she

:20:20. > :20:24.would take any friend she can get for her hard Tore Brexit and to hang

:20:25. > :20:32.with the refugees, the Muslims and anyone who is different. To hang

:20:33. > :20:35.with EU nationals, women, Mexicans and people fleeing from war and

:20:36. > :20:40.terror because that is what this pointless state visit says. Let us

:20:41. > :20:44.not kid ourselves, this UK Government with its ever reducing

:20:45. > :20:52.plans to help Child refugees has knowingly and deliberately heading

:20:53. > :20:55.into this Islamophobic, misogynistic, dangerously confused,

:20:56. > :21:01.if events in Sweden are anything to go by, leader of the free world.

:21:02. > :21:06.Instead, is one of my constituents said, not having the balls to stand

:21:07. > :21:11.up and show some kind of moral backbones. President Trump's words

:21:12. > :21:16.and actions are horribly destructive for Muslims across the world. They

:21:17. > :21:20.will foster Islamophobia and racism. We have heard about the nice day,

:21:21. > :21:29.insidious creeping racism which has felt it can reach -- raise its ugly

:21:30. > :21:34.head. Hate crimes up since the Brexit vote. This state visit ramps

:21:35. > :21:38.that up further, giving those who are fuming to persecute other people

:21:39. > :21:42.the comfort they need especially as they feel it is now rubber-stamped

:21:43. > :21:47.by this rudderless shambles of a UK Government. On these pages we have

:21:48. > :21:52.grave concerns about the effect this has on people living, working and

:21:53. > :21:57.studying in Scotland. Many Muslims are understandably upset and

:21:58. > :22:02.fearful. Other groups as well upset and fearful. As the mother of

:22:03. > :22:11.mixed-race children, I am upset and fearful for the future in a way I

:22:12. > :22:14.never been before. This is a time of flux and uncertainty. There are dark

:22:15. > :22:21.clouds gathering in many parts of the world. Our John peers should be

:22:22. > :22:26.to shine a light, to stand tall. -- our job hear. We should be taking

:22:27. > :22:30.the moral high ground and stand -- sending a firm message to President

:22:31. > :22:35.Trump that this is not acceptable and he needs to stop. Instead this

:22:36. > :22:40.UK Government has rolled over to have its belly tickled and shame on

:22:41. > :22:47.all of you involved if you do not rescind this invitation for the

:22:48. > :22:51.state visit. This will never be in our name. There are two like ways

:22:52. > :22:56.you can approach this debate if you agree the state visit should go

:22:57. > :23:00.ahead. You can argue along the lines of national self-interest, which is

:23:01. > :23:04.the easy way or the more difficult way, you have to understand what Mr

:23:05. > :23:08.Trump means to many people in America. I will start at the first.

:23:09. > :23:12.It seems obvious to me that great countries like our own a

:23:13. > :23:18.non-national self-interest. The issue these invitations to further

:23:19. > :23:23.that self-interest, presumably when we invited two presidents of China,

:23:24. > :23:28.we were prepared to overlook the fact that this is effectively in

:23:29. > :23:32.China a police state. That is no freedom of expression or movement.

:23:33. > :23:37.That is outraged religious persecution, in every single respect

:23:38. > :23:43.it is a state which does not share our values in any shape or form.

:23:44. > :23:47.Presumably when the issued the invitation to President Ceausescu

:23:48. > :23:51.years ago and awarded him a knighthood we felt it was an

:23:52. > :23:55.interest to do so for national self-interest. We only rescinded the

:23:56. > :24:01.knighthood when he was executed by his own people. I will give way.

:24:02. > :24:05.That is not a great deal of consistency about the way we offer

:24:06. > :24:09.the state visit or their content. I think it was useful when we offered

:24:10. > :24:12.one to the president of Colombia because that helped progress the

:24:13. > :24:18.peace process in Colombia but I wonder whether he would not support

:24:19. > :24:21.the idea of the Foreign Affairs Committee doing a proper review of

:24:22. > :24:26.state visits so we get this right for the future? That is a perfectly

:24:27. > :24:33.valid point. I have no objection to that. Presumably when we invited

:24:34. > :24:39.President Mugabe, a racist homophobe to have tea with the Queen we were

:24:40. > :24:44.prepared to overlook his transgressions. When we invite the

:24:45. > :24:49.president of Saudi Arabia, the ultimate misogynist state, we

:24:50. > :24:55.decided they were important allies of our own. We have to consider, if

:24:56. > :25:03.we listened to this petition which people in perfectly good faith, but

:25:04. > :25:07.if we were to accept it and rescind this invitation, it would be

:25:08. > :25:11.catastrophic to a relationship with what is our closest ally. I will not

:25:12. > :25:17.leave that point but my honourable friend for new Forest has surely won

:25:18. > :25:22.the argument in that sense, the whole peace and security of the

:25:23. > :25:25.Western world depends on us using influence with President Trump. I

:25:26. > :25:33.believe the visit of our Prime Minister was an absolute triumph.

:25:34. > :25:37.Not only in furthering our national self-interest but by binding

:25:38. > :25:40.President Trump and his new administration into Nato and we are

:25:41. > :25:43.seeing the effects of that honour this week in terms of what the vice

:25:44. > :25:52.president has been seeing. I think there is no doubt in my mind that it

:25:53. > :25:56.is in our national self-interest to accord respect and honour to our

:25:57. > :26:02.closest and greatest ally and whether we like it or not, this man

:26:03. > :26:06.is the duly elected, democratically elected leader of the free world. To

:26:07. > :26:11.me that is the easy argument to make. I feel I have to follow my

:26:12. > :26:14.honourable friend from Lancashire in making what is probably a much more

:26:15. > :26:19.difficult and controversial argument. We had a debate one year

:26:20. > :26:24.ago on Mr Trump and speaker after speaker condemned him. Even people

:26:25. > :26:28.from my own site. I think I was the only one who try to understand why

:26:29. > :26:36.people are supporting and voting for him. I made the point then and I

:26:37. > :26:39.make it now that I think it is unwise of us to try and transferrin

:26:40. > :26:43.own views and prejudices, our own viewpoint to the other side of the

:26:44. > :26:47.Atlantic. Most people hear for instance think I am on the far right

:26:48. > :26:55.of this political spectrum in this House but he Dianne, a person who

:26:56. > :26:59.warmly supports gun control, who oppose the Iraq war and July is

:27:00. > :27:06.entirely on the NHS, these things would make me an abomination in

:27:07. > :27:09.large part of the Republic party. So it is foolish of us to lecture our

:27:10. > :27:16.colleagues on the other side of the Atlantic what is the right or

:27:17. > :27:19.improper nature of conservatives. Mr Trump is not my kind of

:27:20. > :27:25.conservative, I have nothing in common with him but let us look at

:27:26. > :27:30.some of his comments. The charge of misogyny. What the reporter said is

:27:31. > :27:33.horrible and ridiculous. But which one of us has not made some

:27:34. > :27:42.ridiculous sexual comment sometime in our past. Well, in private. Let

:27:43. > :27:50.he who is without sin Cass the first stone. He has apologised. It is not

:27:51. > :27:56.really the reason to withdraw... I had better give way because someone

:27:57. > :28:00.is casting an intervention. I thank the cheer for letting him give way.

:28:01. > :28:06.I Cass noise versions but is he seriously suggestion that back

:28:07. > :28:11.suggesting it is legitimate that the comments made in public by Trump on

:28:12. > :28:17.a number of issues, including marriage equality for LG BT people

:28:18. > :28:21.and in private which were then broadcast on sexual abuse and

:28:22. > :28:25.attacking women are legitimate position and he stands there and

:28:26. > :28:31.things it is acceptable to say in this chamber in this House that that

:28:32. > :28:35.kind of position is acceptable? Said precisely the opposite. I have never

:28:36. > :28:40.spoken like that nor friends of mine had spoken like that I completely

:28:41. > :28:43.deployed it but all I am saying is most of us would be rather

:28:44. > :28:49.embarrassed if everything we have ever said in private, in our past,

:28:50. > :28:55.was ever... I have given away twice. I knew it would be a difficult

:28:56. > :29:00.argument. It is easy to dodge it but I think it is fair you have to make

:29:01. > :29:04.it. As regards the argument of racism, I do not believe there is

:29:05. > :29:11.any proof -- proves that this travel ban is racist. Indonesia is the

:29:12. > :29:16.largest Muslim country in the world, there is no question of a travel

:29:17. > :29:25.ban. All these countries are riven by Civil War. To accuse the new

:29:26. > :29:30.president of the United States of racism, misogyny and all the rest, I

:29:31. > :29:37.think is overstating. I knew these arguments would be difficult to make

:29:38. > :29:42.but the fact is there are 61 million American people who actually voted

:29:43. > :29:47.for Mr Trump and support him, whether you like it or not, whether

:29:48. > :29:54.he fills you with complete rage, the fight is he is there, he is the duly

:29:55. > :30:00.elected president of the United States. Our interests rely

:30:01. > :30:06.absolutely on trying to influence this man, to bring him overhear, to

:30:07. > :30:10.tie him to our point of view. He would never get elected in this

:30:11. > :30:15.country. His views would have no traction in this country. He would

:30:16. > :30:20.never become the leader of the Conservative Party in this country.

:30:21. > :30:25.None of us rude campaign along the lines that he has campaigned on. All

:30:26. > :30:31.of us disagree fundamentally with so many things he has said, but he is

:30:32. > :30:35.there, he is elected and we have to work with them which is why it would

:30:36. > :30:39.be a disaster if this invitation was rescinded.

:30:40. > :30:53.It will not, as a surprise there will be speaking against state visit

:30:54. > :30:57.by Donald Trump. I started to think about her I was Donald Trump was my

:30:58. > :31:01.worst nightmare, the daughter of a political as seeker, raised in a

:31:02. > :31:04.Muslim who sold and maybe worse trouble a woman with strong

:31:05. > :31:09.opinions. Somehow, I think I will be on his Christmas card list this

:31:10. > :31:13.year. Joking aside, I recognise that he has been elected in the United

:31:14. > :31:19.States. I recognise that this debate has come off the back of an

:31:20. > :31:24.independent election, that this debate is about the nature of the

:31:25. > :31:30.government's responds our government's responds, to Donald and

:31:31. > :31:33.about whether we get him a Royal welcome to our country. An

:31:34. > :31:38.individual who has already made thousands of British people in this

:31:39. > :31:43.country, including members of our own house, question whether they are

:31:44. > :31:48.still welcome in America. And I have two main reasons for clocking

:31:49. > :31:55.against the state visit being granted to Donald Trump. The first

:31:56. > :32:00.is, what has he actually said and done? What has he said to be Prime

:32:01. > :32:04.Minister of our country to warrant the state visit? Because, in my

:32:05. > :32:09.opinion, a state visit should be granted, not expected. The

:32:10. > :32:14.honourable member for Newport West has already made the point about how

:32:15. > :32:19.this does not happen because you have been in position for seven

:32:20. > :32:24.days. Barack Obama waited two and a half years before he was invited on

:32:25. > :32:30.a state visit. George W Bush waited three years before he was invited on

:32:31. > :32:37.a state visit. Nixon, and all for George Bush Senior, were never given

:32:38. > :32:40.a state visit at all. -- and George Bush Senior as well. My question is

:32:41. > :32:44.about what he has actually done, because in my opinion all the fans

:32:45. > :32:49.and he has been president is number one in salted the press, two

:32:50. > :32:54.champion economic protectionism and number three, tried to ban Muslims

:32:55. > :32:58.from entering the United States. Ids reasons why we should be granting

:32:59. > :33:03.him a state visit to our country? Secondly, estate visit is meant to

:33:04. > :33:07.be something which is celebrated. A celebratory event for people. Look

:33:08. > :33:11.at the millions of people who have signed a petition saying they do not

:33:12. > :33:16.want to give Donald Trump a state visit. Look at the thousands of

:33:17. > :33:19.people who marched along Whitehall and across the country saying they

:33:20. > :33:22.did not welcome Donald Trump on a state visit to this country. Listen

:33:23. > :33:27.carefully and you will hear the thousands of people outside right

:33:28. > :33:34.now, outside this House, then they do not want to becoming into this

:33:35. > :33:38.country on a royal state visit. We have a duty to listen to these

:33:39. > :33:44.people, to give them a voice, and if people from the Trump administration

:33:45. > :33:47.are listening, this is not the news. The people who are protesting

:33:48. > :33:54.outside, these are not alternative facts. -- this is not a fake news.

:33:55. > :33:59.These are real British protests from British people who do not want to

:34:00. > :34:04.give him a visit. This is not about timing? I disagree, for me it is

:34:05. > :34:08.about timing. In the post-Brexit era, there are deep divisions within

:34:09. > :34:13.our community. We have a duty to kill these divisions, not to invite

:34:14. > :34:16.figures like Donald Trump so that he can cause more divisions within our

:34:17. > :34:20.community at a time when we are trying to figure out whether the

:34:21. > :34:24.immigration status of British nationals is secure in European

:34:25. > :34:26.countries, added time when we are trying to figure out whether

:34:27. > :34:31.European nationals who have left your four years and years can still

:34:32. > :34:34.stay here, we should not be inviting somebody whose immigration measures

:34:35. > :34:37.are so divisive and so contradictory, because it sends the

:34:38. > :34:43.wrong message to the rest of the world. I would ask honourable

:34:44. > :34:46.members opposite in all good conscience, can you really lay out

:34:47. > :34:52.the red carpet for somebody who has talked about grabbing women by the

:34:53. > :34:57.pussy? Can you lay out the red carpet for somebody who insulted the

:34:58. > :35:01.LGBT community, branded Mexicans as rapists and murderers, insulted

:35:02. > :35:05.Jewish people, insulted disabled people? I will end on a final point,

:35:06. > :35:10.we will be judged by future generations about what we do when we

:35:11. > :35:16.pay a visit to Donald Trump and tell him to come here, because we as

:35:17. > :35:20.British people, we have values, we value respect, we value tolerance,

:35:21. > :35:24.we have mutual respect for each other. If we do not speak up in the

:35:25. > :35:29.face of injustice, if we do not challenge bigotry, then we are not

:35:30. > :35:35.serving ourselves and we should not be inviting him to preach hatred and

:35:36. > :35:44.to spread his bigotry, his misogyny and his division. Thank you, Mr

:35:45. > :35:48.Turner. Clearly this is an issue that has resulted in some extremely

:35:49. > :35:55.passionate speeches on both sides of the argument. Many of my

:35:56. > :35:57.constituents will have signed the petition, from has signed the

:35:58. > :36:03.petition in favour of Mr Trump coming. I have to say that only

:36:04. > :36:09.around 30 of them have actually taken the trouble to e-mail me with

:36:10. > :36:13.their views. I think it is perfectly legitimate that those individuals

:36:14. > :36:18.have signed a petition expressing their own personal, individual

:36:19. > :36:25.views. But for a government to support one of those petitions,

:36:26. > :36:30.particularly the one in favour of banning the president, would be

:36:31. > :36:36.irresponsible and self-indulgent. The government must separate the

:36:37. > :36:41.individual from the officeholder and act, as has been said by many of my

:36:42. > :36:46.colleagues, in the British national interest. There is no doubt that our

:36:47. > :36:55.relationship with the United States is essential in terms of both the

:36:56. > :36:57.economy and security. If the visit, a state visit, will enhance and

:36:58. > :37:02.strengthen those ties and I think that is something that we should

:37:03. > :37:10.support. I think those who have sort have been critical of the legitimacy

:37:11. > :37:14.of the president, and I think it was the honourable lady for Bradford

:37:15. > :37:18.West whose book about legitimacy, and I recognise the passion with

:37:19. > :37:24.which, and a deep feeling, with which she spoke. But actually, the

:37:25. > :37:28.president is legitimate. He is democratically elected by the

:37:29. > :37:33.American people. And for us to turn our back on the officeholder of

:37:34. > :37:37.President is actually an insult to the many millions of people...

:37:38. > :37:40.Certainly. I thank the honourable member for getting we are made by.

:37:41. > :37:46.Would he agree with me that actually this debate is not about... Nobody

:37:47. > :37:50.is saying not to invite President Trump to the UK, we are saying let's

:37:51. > :37:55.not let the red carpet and honour his rhetoric. Well, I think we

:37:56. > :37:59.should roll out the red carpet if it is in our own national interest to

:38:00. > :38:03.do so, and I do not think, as I have said, that there is any doubt about

:38:04. > :38:08.that. As my honourable friend who has not now in its place, Ribble

:38:09. > :38:11.Valley, spoke earlier about comparisons with the Brexit fault,

:38:12. > :38:16.which is perfectly the case. The reality is that other candidates in

:38:17. > :38:20.the USA, just as those who campaigned for the remaining board,

:38:21. > :38:27.did not understand the deeply held views of the British people. Many of

:38:28. > :38:31.the sort of sneering, arrogant, superior comments that we hear from

:38:32. > :38:35.commentators, and from some politicians, is actually an insult

:38:36. > :38:40.not to the British people, in this case to the American people. The

:38:41. > :38:45.United States is a fully functioning democracy. It has got checks and

:38:46. > :38:50.balances in the system. We have seen that with the instance of the court

:38:51. > :38:57.decision against the President's immigration ban. The member, the

:38:58. > :39:00.right honourable member from Gordon spoke about shared values and those

:39:01. > :39:03.are the important shared values that we should be uniting and

:39:04. > :39:09.strengthening, the democratic process, the judicial system. And a

:39:10. > :39:12.free press. Foolishly, last year, as I think it was the honourable member

:39:13. > :39:18.for Gainsborough mentioned, we had a debate in this chamber about whether

:39:19. > :39:22.or not to ban candidate Trump. I think that was foolish and

:39:23. > :39:26.ill-advised. On this occasion, it is even more foolish and ill-advised. I

:39:27. > :39:34.repeat, here's the democratically elected president of our most

:39:35. > :39:41.important ally. Reference has been made to him meeting our Majesty the

:39:42. > :39:44.Queen. Her Majesty has met, as other members has described, from

:39:45. > :39:48.unsavoury characters. Not only has she met some unsavoury characters,

:39:49. > :39:55.she has met some characters who have actually taken up arms against the

:39:56. > :40:01.Crown. But she has moved on from that in the best interests of our

:40:02. > :40:06.nation. Mr Trump has upset some unusual things, a regular things,

:40:07. > :40:11.and something of I would not agree with. -- has said some unusual

:40:12. > :40:14.things. -- some irregular things. He has not, as many world leaders who

:40:15. > :40:22.Her Majesty and the government has made over the years, abused human

:40:23. > :40:25.rights. He is now any position, one hopes, to actually prevent those

:40:26. > :40:30.other leaders throughout the world who seek to do that. There is

:40:31. > :40:35.absolutely no doubt in my judgment, Mr Turner, that we should indeed

:40:36. > :40:40.roll out the carpet for the president. We are not ruling out the

:40:41. > :40:46.carpet for Mr Trump, we're rolling out the red carpet for our most

:40:47. > :40:50.valued ally. I am sorry that the right honourable

:40:51. > :40:54.member for New Forest East is not in his place, because I thought I would

:40:55. > :40:58.like to respond to the arguments he made, particularly about the

:40:59. > :41:06.post-2nd World War situation and the need for peace and stability. On the

:41:07. > :41:09.4th of September 1959, as a little boy, I walked with my mother from a

:41:10. > :41:23.ball to culling cattle in Ayrshire. I did so on that or Tom -- I walked

:41:24. > :41:27.from Maybole to Culzean Castle with my mother. I did so to witness

:41:28. > :41:32.President Eisenhower's visit. He was well known, he has been made a free

:41:33. > :41:40.man in 1946. He has also been given by the people of Scotland a suite of

:41:41. > :41:45.rooms in Culzean Castle called Eisenhower said. He was, as many of

:41:46. > :41:49.you will know, a 5-star general who served as a supreme commander of the

:41:50. > :41:54.Allied exhibition are forcing Europe. Post-World War II he was to

:41:55. > :42:03.become the first supreme commander of Nato. He was then president of

:42:04. > :42:09.the United States from 1953 to 1961, at a time when the Cold War was

:42:10. > :42:15.gripping people with a fear that we faced the possibility of a third

:42:16. > :42:19.World War. And he famously called Culzean Castle his second White

:42:20. > :42:24.House, given he visited that not only when he held positions, when he

:42:25. > :42:32.visited that with his family on many occasions during his life. And

:42:33. > :42:36.however this great American who served as so well in the Second

:42:37. > :42:40.World War as a supreme commander, this man who was the first commander

:42:41. > :42:49.of Nato, this man who became probably the greatest Republican

:42:50. > :42:54.president, post-2nd World War, only once, in 1959, was allowed to have

:42:55. > :43:00.an informal visit to the United Kingdom. He was never afforded a

:43:01. > :43:05.state reception. He was never afforded the right to address

:43:06. > :43:11.parliament, and the American people in that president never complained

:43:12. > :43:17.once. He was able to engage informally. All we are saying is

:43:18. > :43:22.surely if it was good enough for that great president, who

:43:23. > :43:28.contributed so much to our society, who contributed so much to the

:43:29. > :43:33.defeat of fascism, that an informal visit was sufficient, why on earth

:43:34. > :43:40.are we ruling out a red carpet to a man who has only spread division and

:43:41. > :43:43.international instability? The first foreign leader to be invited to

:43:44. > :43:52.address this Parliament was the President of France on the 23rd of

:43:53. > :43:56.March 1939. So, it was not that there was not a precedent for having

:43:57. > :44:03.people to come on state visits or to speak to Parliament. And we know

:44:04. > :44:06.that only two American president in history has been afforded both a

:44:07. > :44:13.state visit and an invitation to address parliament, President Reagan

:44:14. > :44:17.and President Obama. One of President was invited to address

:44:18. > :44:23.parliament but not receive a state visit, Bill Clinton. One had a

:44:24. > :44:28.visit, a state visit, but was not invited to address parliament,

:44:29. > :44:33.George W Bush. But most American presidents since the beginning of

:44:34. > :44:38.the 20th century who have come to this country have come on informal

:44:39. > :44:44.visits. It is unusual for us to record a state visit or an ability

:44:45. > :44:48.to address parliament to American presidents. And when we do so, I

:44:49. > :44:56.would say we should think very carefully. What is it that makes

:44:57. > :45:01.this president who has created such international instability in

:45:02. > :45:06.creating such as social division, what makes them deserving of a state

:45:07. > :45:13.visit? I would say nothing. It is a grubby and despicable manoeuvre by

:45:14. > :45:19.this Prime Minister. Many years ago, the Scottish poet Hugh McDiarmid

:45:20. > :45:26.said that when he died he wanted to have a two-minute pandemonium.

:45:27. > :45:34.The only -- thing I can say coming out of the state visit by President

:45:35. > :45:39.Trump, is an opportunity for the citizens and parliamentarians of the

:45:40. > :45:46.United Kingdom to have a two-minute pandemonium in opposite -- in

:45:47. > :45:52.opposition. I will keep my remarks brief. I am disappointed some of the

:45:53. > :45:56.honourable members who have been speaking at actually saying that

:45:57. > :46:03.anyone who would support this visit is an apologist for his views, that

:46:04. > :46:08.is not the case. I thought my honourable friend for Suffolk who

:46:09. > :46:15.talked about reflective diplomacy was absolutely right. I do not think

:46:16. > :46:19.megaphone diplomacy should be advocated. We are best served by

:46:20. > :46:24.conducting our relationship with the United States in a positive manner.

:46:25. > :46:32.When you look at the response from the government, to both of these

:46:33. > :46:38.petitions, I cannot think that the response is the visit was offered

:46:39. > :46:41.only be half of her Majesty, the Queen. I cannot think the Queen is

:46:42. > :46:48.completely unaware of what is offered in her name. I would suspect

:46:49. > :46:52.although this is way above my pay grade because I have no idea what

:46:53. > :46:58.her Majesty thinks, that is the point, we are not all we're what she

:46:59. > :47:03.thinks, she does not pronounce her views. I cannot think she would be

:47:04. > :47:08.embarrassed because as always she will be a beacon of soft diplomacy

:47:09. > :47:14.by greeting visitors to this country that are recorded in her name the

:47:15. > :47:18.right of the visit. I would find it quite surprising that honourable

:47:19. > :47:23.members, I have made a list of them but I ran out of names, who are

:47:24. > :47:29.against this visit, including the honourable member for Newport West,

:47:30. > :47:36.Tottenham and others, are arguing that seven days is a short term. I

:47:37. > :47:41.hope colleagues will indulge me in the old adage about arguing a

:47:42. > :47:48.prostitute about price, when he is offering her tartans, what do you

:47:49. > :47:51.take? He says this is negotiating track -- strategy. At what point

:47:52. > :48:00.will the honourable members opposite, everyone has heard this

:48:01. > :48:06.comment before. I'm standing he is a woman being shouted down by women,

:48:07. > :48:11.is that right? At what point in the seven days, will it be considered

:48:12. > :48:16.appropriate to extend the invitation? We are talking about a

:48:17. > :48:20.ban. Everything that has been said, there is no point which seems to be

:48:21. > :48:27.acceptable to the honourable members have spoken for this petition about

:48:28. > :48:32.banning. I have listened courteously to all the members who have spoken,

:48:33. > :48:38.I have sat a year so I would appreciate no barracking from

:48:39. > :48:43.opposition members. -- sat here. If we are going to agree that the

:48:44. > :48:46.diplomacy should be extended between ourselves and the United States of

:48:47. > :48:51.America is within the gift of the Prime Minister and the permission of

:48:52. > :48:55.her Majesty then it will be done in the best possible manner to further

:48:56. > :49:01.our relationship with our closest ally. For this talking with a stick

:49:02. > :49:06.to state up the bees nest, I am amazed honourable members think this

:49:07. > :49:09.is the best way forward. They can reflective measures which are being

:49:10. > :49:15.talked about are exactly what we should be doing. Any of us who have

:49:16. > :49:19.particular concerns about the pronouncements of President Trump,

:49:20. > :49:23.have them quite rightly so, I object completely to some of the things

:49:24. > :49:27.I've been said but I am looking at our government which has extended in

:49:28. > :49:31.the name of her Majesty an invitation for someone to come to

:49:32. > :49:37.our country as a welcome ally and president who we should hopefully

:49:38. > :49:40.have a good and purposeful relationship with. Therefore, all

:49:41. > :49:47.these comments we are now hearing about the man being proteins E.ON,

:49:48. > :49:52.we have no respect for other countries if we talk in this manner.

:49:53. > :49:56.If we have concerns about policies going forward, by all means

:49:57. > :50:01.criticise and raised concerns about them but until we turn our back on

:50:02. > :50:06.the president of the United States of America, I think it is quite

:50:07. > :50:10.appropriate we offer a state visit. Our Prime Minister, through her

:50:11. > :50:15.diplomatic efforts has secured a future for me talk, a future

:50:16. > :50:23.direction for this country which binds us together as allies. Of

:50:24. > :50:26.course I will. You also get the impression that a number of people

:50:27. > :50:30.cannot get to terms with the fact that over 60 million people voted

:50:31. > :50:34.for President Trump because they felt left behind. That is an

:50:35. > :50:39.inability of people in this House to come to terms with democracy which

:50:40. > :50:43.is why Tony Blair was visiting radio and TV stations the other day trying

:50:44. > :50:47.to overturn the democratic decision of the British people. It is an

:50:48. > :50:54.inability to understand what democracy is all about. Nearly 63

:50:55. > :50:59.million people actually voted for President Trump and that is there a

:51:00. > :51:04.democratic decision. They are the people who evaluated whether they

:51:05. > :51:09.like the man and believe he can take the country forward. They were aware

:51:10. > :51:13.of his comments in the past and voted for him because of the line he

:51:14. > :51:17.has taken, it is not for us to criticise and try and retest the

:51:18. > :51:22.matter now. I thought it was a ridiculous debate we should stand

:51:23. > :51:27.against his candidacy, he is the president and we must move on. We

:51:28. > :51:32.have criticisms and concerns but they should be done behind closed

:51:33. > :51:37.doors, these public pronouncements seem to me to be counterintuitive to

:51:38. > :51:41.what we need to do for the future of this country. My friend who spoke

:51:42. > :51:46.for Gainsborough got it exactly right, the easy argument is to stand

:51:47. > :51:52.here and make speeches about how some of his comments have been

:51:53. > :51:56.totally reprehensible. They have been. But how much farther does get

:51:57. > :52:02.us and our country in the future for trade deals and negotiations and

:52:03. > :52:06.perhaps the reliance on them at some point in the future when they need

:52:07. > :52:12.to come to our aid? I suspect this is a dangerous route to go down.

:52:13. > :52:15.Thank you, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I wanted to

:52:16. > :52:22.start by talking about the numbers of people who sign this petition. It

:52:23. > :52:28.is a truly staggering number. In my constituency, almost 9000, one in

:52:29. > :52:36.every ten resident in Cambridge. We have been talking about democracy,

:52:37. > :52:38.democracy does not equal the majority solely. I want to talk

:52:39. > :52:41.about why people like cities such as Cambridge feel passionately about

:52:42. > :52:46.this issue because they go to the very heart of people's beliefs about

:52:47. > :52:51.themselves. We have heard about the people who have been left behind but

:52:52. > :52:55.there is also another country that values tolerance, education,

:52:56. > :53:00.understanding and learning. That is the kind of city Cambridge is and

:53:01. > :53:03.there are other cities around the country just like that. By many

:53:04. > :53:08.people this is more than just a calculation of national interest, it

:53:09. > :53:16.is about who we are. -- for many people. It is about our values which

:53:17. > :53:21.really matter. One constituent who wrote to me said they were appalled

:53:22. > :53:25.by the recent travel ban imposed by President Trump which denigrates

:53:26. > :53:30.western values in such a public and devastating way. We have heard the

:53:31. > :53:36.argument about we have had other unsavoury leaders during the past.

:53:37. > :53:39.Of course there are always these kind of trade-offs. When we invite

:53:40. > :53:44.people here we are trying to do something positive and find common

:53:45. > :53:48.ground, the goal is always to widen. -- dialogue but the United States is

:53:49. > :53:53.so much better than President Trump. That is the key. We have a shared

:53:54. > :53:59.history, going back historically there has always been a tension

:54:00. > :54:02.between the old world and the New World. The fact we are such good

:54:03. > :54:10.friends and had shared values ought to mean that we are the ones who can

:54:11. > :54:13.candidly say to America, in a troubled time, too many people in

:54:14. > :54:16.America who are looking for something better that we stand with

:54:17. > :54:25.them at this time. We stand with them. Frankly as we speak, the Trump

:54:26. > :54:28.presidency has been disintegrating, it has been near meltdown in the

:54:29. > :54:32.White House in the last month. We should not be coming along to help

:54:33. > :54:38.prop it up. We have heard already about the prime minister's rush to

:54:39. > :54:43.go and meet President Trump. We understand why that was post-Brexit,

:54:44. > :54:50.we can all to the point but one of my constituents described that as an

:54:51. > :54:56.inappropriate offer of cordiality. It kind of sums up what a lot of

:54:57. > :55:02.people feel in Cambridge. My view is it turned into such an unstable

:55:03. > :55:08.regime, it is really a big risk. It might not look so bright in the

:55:09. > :55:12.months ahead. Is it really in our national self-interest? Is it really

:55:13. > :55:16.the patriotic option? Is this really the person we would put our trust

:55:17. > :55:20.in? We used to understand that by sharing sovereignty with others we

:55:21. > :55:25.were stronger. Now in the New World which as everyone for themselves,

:55:26. > :55:30.America is a big and powerful country. If it is America first,

:55:31. > :55:34.where does that leave us? I think we should think clearly about that.

:55:35. > :55:38.Another constituent says a relationship with the US is

:55:39. > :55:42.diminished by subordinating our long-term values for trading

:55:43. > :55:46.interests. The special relationship is only as special as the values

:55:47. > :55:52.which underpin it. I understand the difficulty the prime minister has

:55:53. > :55:56.got herself into. But there are many ways out of this. The revelations

:55:57. > :56:00.about the first choice of national security adviser and his potential

:56:01. > :56:08.link with the Russians should surely be more than enough good reason for

:56:09. > :56:11.us to think that enough is enough? If it is about the UK national

:56:12. > :56:15.security and interest then I say think again. Let me conclude by

:56:16. > :56:19.saying in my view Mr Trump is a disgusting man, he represents the

:56:20. > :56:23.very opposite of the values we hold. He should not be welcome here. We

:56:24. > :56:27.are tolerant country but tolerance does not allow that tolerance to be

:56:28. > :56:35.abused. We do not welcome bigots and we do not stand aside when we seek

:56:36. > :56:38.intolerance, hatred on the march. We respond and that response should be

:56:39. > :56:44.for government to withdraw the invitation. It is a pleasure to

:56:45. > :56:48.serve under your chairmanship. I am a teacher by profession and one of

:56:49. > :56:56.the most important thing is that a teacher can give to their pupils is

:56:57. > :57:00.a view of tolerance and respect, of understanding, of knowing that the

:57:01. > :57:05.world is made up of a whole variety of different people who are no

:57:06. > :57:12.better or worse than each other. I became concerned when I heard

:57:13. > :57:17.comments like, grab them by the PC. I was even more concerned when these

:57:18. > :57:23.were dangerously dismissed as locker room talk. Unlike the Member for

:57:24. > :57:26.Gainsborough, I do not know any men who think this or have these

:57:27. > :57:30.thoughts or even discuss them in the locker room but then again I move in

:57:31. > :57:46.different circles to the member from Gainsborough. When Donald Trump was

:57:47. > :57:51.elected... I tweeted, xenophobic, sexist and racist rhetoric has just

:57:52. > :57:56.been legitimised. We should be very afraid. Fox News reported that our

:57:57. > :58:01.first Minister Nicola Sturgeon had urged Trump to reach out to those

:58:02. > :58:09.who felt marginalised. Our view I think we all agree with. I will give

:58:10. > :58:13.way. I appreciate you are trained teacher but could I ask you to

:58:14. > :58:19.project more over the noise of the men -- of the many people outside

:58:20. > :58:22.who are protesting against Trump. I thank my honourable friend for her

:58:23. > :58:29.intervention and many of us may join them after this debate has finished.

:58:30. > :58:35.Now, I will not. Hear, hear. Fox News also quoted my tweet and

:58:36. > :58:40.there's opened the floodgates. I have a whole pile of them and I will

:58:41. > :58:46.not treat you to the wall selection but I will read a couple. Mind your

:58:47. > :58:52.damn business and stay the hell out of politics. The silent majority has

:58:53. > :58:56.spoken, we do not want to end up like Europe is pure country. We

:58:57. > :59:06.kicked your as once, we can do it again if you give us a reason. It

:59:07. > :59:08.goes on. Here's another one. Keep your vulgar comments on your side of

:59:09. > :59:14.the pond. Germany would have run over you in the 1940s. My personal

:59:15. > :59:20.favourite was from the geographically challenged Randy from

:59:21. > :59:25.Dallas. He tweeted, it didn't, thick and foolish is the order of the day

:59:26. > :59:37.for Carol Monaghan. Australia should be very afraid. But regardless of

:59:38. > :59:43.why people voted the way they did, at Pandora's box of heat has been

:59:44. > :59:48.opened. The right-wing has become involved, both in the United States

:59:49. > :59:54.and across Europe and this is something we should all be worried

:59:55. > :59:58.about. -- emboldened. Dark rhetoric which should never be uttered is now

:59:59. > :00:03.being freely expressed. What teachers now tell the classes? How

:00:04. > :00:09.do they teach them tolerance and respect? Not only has Trump been

:00:10. > :00:15.elected but he has been offered a state visit. How can teachers defend

:00:16. > :00:20.tolerance, how can you stand up to their pupils, how can he stand up to

:00:21. > :00:25.bullying, and xenophobia in schools when we roll out the red carpet to

:00:26. > :00:29.him? I have heard a number of people talking about it is in the national

:00:30. > :00:33.interest. I will tell you what is in the national interest, showing an

:00:34. > :00:46.example to our young people. Telling them that these views are not to be

:00:47. > :00:48.accepted. They are not to be tolerated and we should be

:00:49. > :00:49.defending, defending those who have moderate views and moderate

:00:50. > :00:59.positions. I stand here in support of the more

:01:00. > :01:02.than 3000 constituent of mine who has signed this petition and the

:01:03. > :01:06.many more who have e-mailed me urging me to speak out against this

:01:07. > :01:16.point might guess, I will. We share a boundary, more than 5000 of my

:01:17. > :01:20.constituents, compared to 107 -- more than 5000 signed off my

:01:21. > :01:23.constituents find this. The number of members want to contribute this

:01:24. > :01:26.evening, the number of people outside, does she agree with me that

:01:27. > :01:29.the petitions committee and procedure committee need to look at

:01:30. > :01:34.ways of extending the time and space that is available for this kind of

:01:35. > :01:37.debate in the future? Absolutely. I thank him for that intervention. Of

:01:38. > :01:41.course, one of the things I said as soon as they arrived this afternoon

:01:42. > :01:45.for this debate was, why was this not in the main chamber? Obviously,

:01:46. > :01:50.for many members are wanting to speak today and I am sure the main

:01:51. > :01:57.chamber is a lot less busy than it is here this afternoon. So, just to

:01:58. > :02:00.conclude, I agree with my constituents, with the overwhelming

:02:01. > :02:10.view of my constituents, this state visit should not go ahead in the

:02:11. > :02:15.national interest. Mr Alistair Carmichael, but before he speaks can

:02:16. > :02:19.we cut it down to four minutes? It is a pleasure to take part in this

:02:20. > :02:22.debate, to serve under your chairmanship. I will congratulate

:02:23. > :02:27.the petitions committee for bringing it to others afternoon. Indeed, in

:02:28. > :02:32.particular I congratulate all those who set up and find these petitions.

:02:33. > :02:37.For them to see a direct influence of that political activism on the

:02:38. > :02:41.business of this House has got to be a good and positive development. The

:02:42. > :02:47.argument brought forward by those who support the extension of an

:02:48. > :02:49.invitation of his thought to president Trump, as I understood it

:02:50. > :02:54.to be most thoughtfully expressed by the German of the Foreign Affairs

:02:55. > :03:01.Select Committee, is essentially this is a spending of a measure of

:03:02. > :03:08.political capital, for which there is to be a return. As the German

:03:09. > :03:11.budget, the Prime Minister won an important reaffirmation of the

:03:12. > :03:18.special relationship. Now, I have to say to those, all of those who have

:03:19. > :03:22.advanced but argument, where is the evidence that that is in fact the

:03:23. > :03:27.case? In fact, having offered president Trump a state visit, they

:03:28. > :03:33.offer having been accepted, we have since seen a very different range of

:03:34. > :03:38.views coming from him which are not particularly helpful, particularly

:03:39. > :03:40.in relation to America's future engagement through Nato, the

:03:41. > :03:47.relationship with Russia, for example. He is making a very

:03:48. > :03:49.important point, do they not indeed recall another British Prime

:03:50. > :03:54.Minister, one who did many good things, but was deeply naive in the

:03:55. > :03:59.ability he thought he had to influence an American president and

:04:00. > :04:02.where that led us? Indeed, and I had cause to reflect this weekend in

:04:03. > :04:11.relation to that particular former Prime Minister. My other concern is

:04:12. > :04:16.that we may have spent this capital in this way, and it may or may not

:04:17. > :04:24.ultimately be effective, but this is weak one of a four-year term. What

:04:25. > :04:28.having offered a state visit at this time are going to offer the next

:04:29. > :04:34.time we want to get a favourable response? Will it be the crown

:04:35. > :04:41.Jewels header who knows? Just about anything is possible. Essentially,

:04:42. > :04:45.what we are here talking about is the question of judgment and in my

:04:46. > :04:49.view the Prime Minister, in the exercise of judgment, got it

:04:50. > :04:55.catastrophically wrong. Not just to offer a state visit but to do to

:04:56. > :04:58.seven days after his inauguration. This was not something that she just

:04:59. > :05:01.decided on the bar of the moment. We all know the Prime Minister well

:05:02. > :05:04.enough to know that this is not something she would have blurted out

:05:05. > :05:09.to fill an awkward pause in conversation. The question is, what

:05:10. > :05:14.was the motivation for this? My personal suspicion is that she was

:05:15. > :05:20.perhaps a little bit spooked by seeing the pictures of Nigel Farage

:05:21. > :05:23.in Trump Towers following the election in November, or it might be

:05:24. > :05:29.of the honourable member for Gordon suggested trying to pursue questions

:05:30. > :05:34.of trade deals post Brexit. Whatever they motivation, it has left us

:05:35. > :05:37.looking desperate and craven and rushing to embrace a presidency when

:05:38. > :05:43.the rest of the world is rushing away from it. It is also worth

:05:44. > :05:47.remembering, the things that presidency involves, in particular

:05:48. > :05:49.my own personal concern, his determination, or an avowed

:05:50. > :05:55.intention, to resurrect the use of torture. I am going to four minutes

:05:56. > :06:02.and I do not have any more injury time, as it is called. Water

:06:03. > :06:06.boarding or something a hell of a lot worse was the expression. I

:06:07. > :06:10.asked the Foreign Secretary about whether he agrees that with him, he

:06:11. > :06:14.said he did not discuss operational matters. It is not an operational

:06:15. > :06:19.matter whether we share our intelligence with a country that

:06:20. > :06:22.condones the use of torture. That is a matter of policy for every other

:06:23. > :06:30.country in the world and it should be a matter of policy for the United

:06:31. > :06:33.States of America as well. I have no issue with the Prime Minister

:06:34. > :06:37.seeking to influence the president of the United States. But she should

:06:38. > :06:41.be doing that in a way that engages the relationship that we have

:06:42. > :06:46.enjoyed in the past, she should be seeking to build on that and if, and

:06:47. > :06:51.only if, she is then successful in that should offer such as the one

:06:52. > :06:56.she has made an extended. This presumes, of course, the president

:06:57. > :07:00.Trump will be influenced. I see little evidence to support that

:07:01. > :07:05.contention. Even those few benign influence of around him do not seem

:07:06. > :07:11.able to do that. I start from the position, Mr Turner, of somebody who

:07:12. > :07:15.balanced, values the special relationship I understand it is not

:07:16. > :07:18.between a government and administration, it is between our

:07:19. > :07:21.two peoples. -- as somebody who values the special relationship.

:07:22. > :07:24.That is why our shared values and history makes it special and

:07:25. > :07:32.enduring and that is what the Prime Minister risks doing severe damage

:07:33. > :07:35.to today. I do not just mean the debate in

:07:36. > :07:40.Westminster Hall but the wider debate would be conducted in a calm

:07:41. > :07:46.and rational fashion. Well expressed that hope, I suppose the past hour

:07:47. > :07:51.and 40 minutes would indicate that may be hauled rather than an

:07:52. > :07:54.expectation. But nonetheless, it has been debated widely outside and

:07:55. > :08:01.there are many outside who do not share my view. My view is that

:08:02. > :08:08.candidate, and Mr Trump made some deplorable and vile comments which

:08:09. > :08:15.are indefensible, cannot be defended morally, politically or in any other

:08:16. > :08:18.way. But he is the president, the democratically elected president, of

:08:19. > :08:26.the United States of America. As far as I am aware, 62.9 million people

:08:27. > :08:30.voted for the now president Trump and the electoral college system

:08:31. > :08:35.delivered him the presidency. But Mr Turner, this is the point I wish to

:08:36. > :08:41.labour on in the couple of minutes that I have, we had eight years ago

:08:42. > :08:46.the election of the then president like Obama. We were told at that

:08:47. > :08:54.time that here was a new man, here was a man whose slogan was, "Yes, we

:08:55. > :08:57.can,", he was going to introduce a radical way of liberal ideas that

:08:58. > :09:04.would bring the United States of America will into the 21st century

:09:05. > :09:11.and would liberate and emancipate that nation state of the great

:09:12. > :09:18.liberty that it has had for over 200 years. And after eight years of his

:09:19. > :09:25.presidency, according to some, over 60 million Americans, after having

:09:26. > :09:33.eight years of Obama's presidency, elected a bigoted, misogynistic,

:09:34. > :09:39.racist, paranoid, the level is wonderful. How did they do that

:09:40. > :09:40.after eight years of the great liberal being in charge You can keep

:09:41. > :09:57.up to date with -- vino for Beck, as person. Across

:09:58. > :10:01.the free world, Mr Turner, there is an isolation, not in isolationism of

:10:02. > :10:06.president Trump, but an isolation of people. Whether it is in the United

:10:07. > :10:10.Kingdom, whether in the USA, and we will probably see in the

:10:11. > :10:16.Netherlands, in France and Germany. The rising of people who have had

:10:17. > :10:20.enough of the establishment, because it is the establishment that the

:10:21. > :10:26.blame for the plight. And it does not do for people to patronise them

:10:27. > :10:32.and say, well, we will take account of your fears and concerns. You have

:10:33. > :10:35.perceptions, they are not really accurate but we understand they are

:10:36. > :10:40.perceptions. That will not wash. It did not wash in America, it did not

:10:41. > :10:44.wash with the Brexit boat and we will wait and see whether it washes

:10:45. > :10:48.in much of continental Europe. It is time the establishment, the bubble,

:10:49. > :10:52.whether in Westminster, whether in Brussels, whether in Washington,

:10:53. > :10:56.walk up to the reality that people want to see and hear their

:10:57. > :11:02.government, their elected representatives, representing them,

:11:03. > :11:06.rather than simply going through the motions of establishing further

:11:07. > :11:12.bubbles and getting... Retreating into their bubble even more so. Mr

:11:13. > :11:16.Turner, I do not endorse some of the things president Trump has said. He

:11:17. > :11:21.has been invited, we should ensure that invite goes ahead and we should

:11:22. > :11:23.also say to Mr Trump, "Some of the things you have said are

:11:24. > :11:28.unacceptable and if you think the pendulum has swung too far to the

:11:29. > :11:38.left, please, Mr Trump, do not allow it to swing too far to the right." I

:11:39. > :11:42.want to congratulate the procedures committee for having this debate. My

:11:43. > :11:46.constituency is the most diverse constituency in Europe and for that

:11:47. > :11:50.I am very, very proud. Almost everybody has something to say about

:11:51. > :11:58.Trump and America. The thing is this, Mr Turner, the UK hands,

:11:59. > :12:02.always has had, a close relationship with the United States. It is

:12:03. > :12:04.important to continue that special relationship. But that special

:12:05. > :12:10.relationship comes with responsibilities. We, today,

:12:11. > :12:15.speaking our Parliament, which is older than United States itself, and

:12:16. > :12:19.we have a responsibility as the elder, if you like, to guide that

:12:20. > :12:25.special relationship. It is often said that when America sneezes, the

:12:26. > :12:30.UK catches a cold. Right now, America has a pretty nasty virus. It

:12:31. > :12:36.is important that virus does not spread. We have to stop the spread

:12:37. > :12:42.of that virus, because the closeness of our special relationship and the

:12:43. > :12:46.open wound that we have that was created by Brexit leaves of both

:12:47. > :12:52.vulnerable. We need to stop this contagion from becoming an epidemic

:12:53. > :12:57.that leads to a pandemic from which the free world may never recover.

:12:58. > :13:02.There is lots of talk about the negotiations of the Prime Minister

:13:03. > :13:06.date and delivered to be able to deliver... To continue the schools,

:13:07. > :13:11.working relationship so I say this, we cannot sell our souls and what we

:13:12. > :13:16.believe in in order to be able to sell our goods and services. It is a

:13:17. > :13:22.price far too high to pay. The antidote to this virus is building

:13:23. > :13:25.bridges not wall. The antidote to this virus is listening to the

:13:26. > :13:29.thousands of people who have spoken, you sign this petition, who are

:13:30. > :13:35.outside Parliament right now that we can hear cheering and chanting. We

:13:36. > :13:38.hear people, they have come out to March, people who have never marched

:13:39. > :13:41.before, are outside right now because they believe in something.

:13:42. > :13:47.They believe in Hope not hate. Edmund Burke said that all that is

:13:48. > :13:54.necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. I am

:13:55. > :13:58.sure, Mr Turner, that he wanted to mention him in that speech and it is

:13:59. > :14:02.a very wise statement. -- he wanted to mention women in his speech.

:14:03. > :14:07.Hundreds of thousands of women took to the street and were joined by

:14:08. > :14:11.greatly by men, boys, gay, straight, people of all religion and none and

:14:12. > :14:15.it is time that the United Kingdom needs to be united in its voice

:14:16. > :14:20.against racism, bigotry and misogynist and, anti-Semitism, and

:14:21. > :14:24.all that other division that has given from the White House. People

:14:25. > :14:29.said today that he is not racist because winger-mac to me, that is

:14:30. > :14:33.the theme of saying how can he be a murderer? A murderer can be a

:14:34. > :14:37.murderer and still have friends who are alive. It does not matter. He is

:14:38. > :14:43.still a racist and misogynistic. We affect each other and Martin

:14:44. > :14:47.Woodruff -- Martin Luther King put it quite well, he said he cannot be

:14:48. > :14:51.what he ought to be until you are what you are to be, that is the

:14:52. > :14:55.inter-related structure of reality. We are bound together by a single

:14:56. > :15:00.garment of destiny and we need each other in order to move forward.

:15:01. > :15:04.There is no way around it. We have to work with other people. It is

:15:05. > :15:08.fine, you know, president Trump committee as a president, he can

:15:09. > :15:14.come and visit. But not a state visit. That is taking it a step too

:15:15. > :15:17.far because his message is not about togetherness. It is all about

:15:18. > :15:21.building more than imposing bans. It is not about the truth but stopped

:15:22. > :15:26.when he speaks and you criticise or you question what he said, he cries

:15:27. > :15:28.that it is fake news. There is a real issue and problem that we had

:15:29. > :15:50.to address. To tie in 1845 so we have to move

:15:51. > :15:54.on. -- the time is 1845. I will conclude to give my honourable

:15:55. > :15:58.friend some time to speak. The whole world is watching and the whole

:15:59. > :16:03.world is watching the decision we make in Parliament and we cannot be

:16:04. > :16:09.on the wrong side of history. Thank you very much, it is a privilege to

:16:10. > :16:13.start under your -- to serve under your chairmanship. I would like to

:16:14. > :16:18.start as someone who loves America very dearly. I am proud to be one of

:16:19. > :16:24.the Fulbright scholars in this place, I spent a happy two years in

:16:25. > :16:30.America. I is crisscrossed the country and I learned about its

:16:31. > :16:34.warmth, its beauty, is energy, enterprise, beauty and generosity

:16:35. > :16:38.and resolution in the face of adversity. These are all the values

:16:39. > :16:43.we expect a President of United States to epitomise. These were the

:16:44. > :16:47.values of President Washington, whose birthday we mark today. It was

:16:48. > :16:51.once said that President Washington could not tell a lie. This president

:16:52. > :16:54.seems divided of President Washington, whose birthday we mark

:16:55. > :16:56.today. It was once said that President Washington could not tell

:16:57. > :17:08.a lie. This president seems divided difficult to tell the truth.

:17:09. > :17:12.We need a shared stand against disunity, intolerance, hatred. That

:17:13. > :17:17.is what we should be celebrating with the presidential state visit to

:17:18. > :17:26.the United Kingdom. That is what we are not going to get. My fear is

:17:27. > :17:28.this visit will not be shipped -- showcase for the shared values. It

:17:29. > :17:33.will be a showcase for the divisions between us. We must ask what will

:17:34. > :17:38.greet President Trump when he gets there? I would argue we will get the

:17:39. > :17:42.kind of pro-dash-mac protest Lisi outside. It will make the pit --

:17:43. > :17:48.protest outside look like a tea party. What we hope will be a

:17:49. > :17:53.special relationship will emerge as a strained relationship. If I

:17:54. > :18:01.thought we could take the president Fran non-alcoholic pint or a cup of

:18:02. > :18:03.tea or take him out for a curry in Birmingham and sent him away a

:18:04. > :18:08.better man, I would be all for rolling out the red carpet but I

:18:09. > :18:15.think he has shown he is not a man who treasures to be conversations.

:18:16. > :18:20.He treasures one week conversations, ideally composed of 140 characters.

:18:21. > :18:26.Other members said we have entertained all sorts which is true.

:18:27. > :18:32.Diplomacy is not a business you can conduct conversations with your

:18:33. > :18:36.friends only. But as the Member for Cambridge said we hold America tour

:18:37. > :18:42.of higher standard because they are our friends. We shared those values

:18:43. > :18:47.which we pioneered in this Parliament, we gave those values to

:18:48. > :18:51.the Pilgrim Fathers who took them to that continent which became the

:18:52. > :18:54.American Constitution. Those are the values we should be celebrating. I

:18:55. > :19:02.will not give way because time is short. I fear that nothing would be

:19:03. > :19:08.left unsaid in this visit. This is a problem because diplomacy sometimes

:19:09. > :19:13.things are better left unsaid. -- in diplomacy. Nothing would be left

:19:14. > :19:17.unsaid, we would hear the sirens and the protests and my fear is that

:19:18. > :19:23.that would be misinterpreted in parts of America, it would be seen

:19:24. > :19:31.as antipathy to America which is not something we want to strengthen or

:19:32. > :19:38.reinforced the special relationship. History is littered with British

:19:39. > :19:41.Prime Minister is who overestimated their influence with American

:19:42. > :19:46.presidents and I fear our Prime Minister is about to add turning to

:19:47. > :19:51.the cast list. I think this state visit was a mistake. It is hard to

:19:52. > :19:58.withdraw the offer now and our best hope is we keep it short because I

:19:59. > :20:03.do not think it will be sweet. Thank you very much indeed, it is a

:20:04. > :20:07.pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. Can I ask members who

:20:08. > :20:13.are still here this evening to close their eyes and just think for one

:20:14. > :20:20.minute, if we were talking about any other person, any other leader in

:20:21. > :20:25.the world, wherever they might come from, would we be standing in such

:20:26. > :20:30.defence of him? I think perhaps not. We should think about what that says

:20:31. > :20:36.about us. To say it does not matter what the president of the United

:20:37. > :20:43.States says because he is a rich, white man, I fear that is exactly

:20:44. > :20:46.what it says. We had talk of others who had been invited on state visits

:20:47. > :20:51.to this country but I would ask those who raise that issue, which

:20:52. > :20:55.other head of state has been invited on a state visit who pose a threat

:20:56. > :20:59.to our national security and insulted a member of the Royal

:21:00. > :21:07.family? I think the editor that is none. I will not give way. In

:21:08. > :21:14.relation to comments made by the Member for New Forest East, when he

:21:15. > :21:20.spoke of passive righteousness, a very noble past that is. I feel we

:21:21. > :21:28.have been here before. Many of this year, including the honourable

:21:29. > :21:31.member for Bradford West, who spoke about inviting him over to say how

:21:32. > :21:35.we live in this country and how we have a tolerant society of which we

:21:36. > :21:43.are proud. If anyone really thinks that will make much of a difference

:21:44. > :21:48.at all, I really do comment on their innocence and this matter. Moving on

:21:49. > :21:54.to the comment that was made about Trump being refreshing. I can

:21:55. > :21:59.understand by the benches opposite find it refreshing when an elected

:22:00. > :22:04.leader does actually do what he says he will do during his campaign. They

:22:05. > :22:08.are unfamiliar with the concept certainly. I find it rather poor

:22:09. > :22:13.warrant the use of the word refreshing. That takes me on to the

:22:14. > :22:18.comments made by the Member for Gainsborough when he said, which one

:22:19. > :22:26.of us has not made a ridiculous sexual comment in the past? That is

:22:27. > :22:28.unacceptable. It is unacceptable that the member even thinks it's the

:22:29. > :22:35.right thing to bring into this forum, it is never ever OK to make a

:22:36. > :22:41.comment of a sexual nature to anybody. I speak for all of the

:22:42. > :22:44.women in this House, if not some of those men, when we say that the

:22:45. > :22:53.women that in this House have had enough of it and we will not put up

:22:54. > :22:59.with it any more. This debate is not about how the USA voted. We know

:23:00. > :23:03.there were democratic elections although it was President Trump to

:23:04. > :23:09.cast aspersions on whether some of the people voted who had the right

:23:10. > :23:16.to do so. It is about who we are as a country, as a country made up of

:23:17. > :23:20.four nations. I think the voices outside are perhaps more

:23:21. > :23:25.demonstrative of who we are as a country than some of the voices we

:23:26. > :23:34.have heard and hear today. I believe... Yes, I will. I think

:23:35. > :23:37.she's making a very important point, the rate of the Americans to choose

:23:38. > :23:42.their own president but there's debate is about our values and our

:23:43. > :23:48.constituents. This Parliament is an embodiment of our values in this

:23:49. > :23:54.country. To paraphrase Jane Austen, either shades of Parliament to be

:23:55. > :23:59.just polluted? I thank her very much. My honourable friend has not

:24:00. > :24:04.yet spoken which is why I allowed and in intervention. Everyone's

:24:05. > :24:11.voice should be heard. I just realised... The honourable lady is

:24:12. > :24:15.making a very powerful message but I would like to take her back to a

:24:16. > :24:22.point about heads of state. Many members you have mentioned some

:24:23. > :24:26.unsavoury figures who have been afforded state visits. Not long ago

:24:27. > :24:32.we rolled out the red carpet for the any of Kuwait. If you're gay, there

:24:33. > :24:40.is the chance you will be long in prison for this. Does she think we

:24:41. > :24:48.are traipsing into any area of double standards hear? -- the ruler

:24:49. > :24:53.of Kuwait. I thank him and they weird it is in our national

:24:54. > :24:56.interest, we should seek to work constructively with governments with

:24:57. > :25:01.whom we agree and disagree but I refer to my point about our national

:25:02. > :25:10.security and insults to the Royal Family. We must demonstrate

:25:11. > :25:14.leadership. We encourage people who visit this country to raise their

:25:15. > :25:18.game. The current president of the United States is not demonstrating

:25:19. > :25:23.positive leadership on the world stage or is someone who would

:25:24. > :25:28.benefit from a first-hand example of democracy nor is acting in a Wii in

:25:29. > :25:32.our national interest. Presence of United States have been considered

:25:33. > :25:37.to be readers of the free world up till now. We have had good and not

:25:38. > :25:42.so good presidents. While we agree with some of their policies, each

:25:43. > :25:45.has been committed to upholding the Constitution of the United States

:25:46. > :25:57.and promoting freedom and justice across the world. I consider myself

:25:58. > :26:00.a friend of the United States and pleas of our country's strong links.

:26:01. > :26:03.I have seen first-hand the specialism and care with which the

:26:04. > :26:05.US administration deals with their friends across the world when a

:26:06. > :26:12.visit but President Trump does not follow in the spit steps of the

:26:13. > :26:15.giants of American history. -- in the footsteps. His actions have

:26:16. > :26:22.undermined the American Constitution. It is not just by

:26:23. > :26:30.inviting him we are setting aside his deplorable personal contact --

:26:31. > :26:35.conduct, this is a man... I hear groans from the back. This is a man

:26:36. > :26:39.who says about the Duchess of Cambridge, who would not take Kate's

:26:40. > :26:44.picture and make lots of money if she does the nude sunbathing thing?

:26:45. > :26:50.How humiliating for any family to welcome someone like that to their

:26:51. > :26:54.home and we are asking the Royal family to do just that. I oppose

:26:55. > :26:58.this is it not just because of this vile behaviour but also because of

:26:59. > :27:02.his action as president, he has signed illegal and unconstitutional

:27:03. > :27:08.executive orders which contravene the United States obligations under

:27:09. > :27:14.the Geneva Convention, he undermines the independence of the judiciary,

:27:15. > :27:17.he has rolled back the voting act on the right of Americans to vote by

:27:18. > :27:21.falsely claiming voting fraud is taking place on a massive scale

:27:22. > :27:29.without a single shred of evidence. He has undermined the free press. He

:27:30. > :27:36.called any Paul against his position fake news. He speaks of the press

:27:37. > :27:42.being the enemy of the American people. He has endorsed the use of

:27:43. > :27:47.war crimes by US forces abroad. They deliberately targets innocent

:27:48. > :27:51.civilians in direct contravention of international law. His actions are

:27:52. > :27:56.morally and legally wrong and in conflict with our own international

:27:57. > :28:01.interest. Following the issue of the executive order banning entry to the

:28:02. > :28:05.US from a number of Muslim countries, the Home Secretary said

:28:06. > :28:09.the sources of terrorism are not to be found in the sources were the

:28:10. > :28:16.president is necessarily looking for them. He is not combating terrorism,

:28:17. > :28:21.he is boosting terrorism. He has adopted a warped view which gives

:28:22. > :28:28.aim to terrorism. He says it is Islam against the West. What a

:28:29. > :28:34.dangerous path to take us down. As we saw last week, during the

:28:35. > :28:41.extraordinary press conference, where his main aim is to deflect

:28:42. > :28:47.attention to his links with Putin and Russia, he is either a complete

:28:48. > :28:51.idiot or an enormous liar. I do not think he is an idiot, he has been

:28:52. > :28:56.successful in achieving his goals. He has a plan for the means to carry

:28:57. > :29:01.it out and I want to join my friends in the United States by defending

:29:02. > :29:07.the constitution. This is not just about governance and governments but

:29:08. > :29:10.about people in the United States who protested against the action of

:29:11. > :29:15.their president. Women, men and children alike who stood beside

:29:16. > :29:22.refugees when the Muslim ban was put in place. Who will speak for them? I

:29:23. > :29:27.think we should. If we accommodate trump on an official visit, lending

:29:28. > :29:33.him a cloak of respectability and hope that we will be able to change

:29:34. > :29:37.his dangerous policies, we will be carrying on this spectacularly

:29:38. > :29:44.unsuccessful tactics of those Tory MPs in this chamber who attended

:29:45. > :29:47.this debate one year ago and dismissed him. Those that chose

:29:48. > :29:53.previously to ridicule them must be wondering why they did that. As we

:29:54. > :29:57.have heard so often from the Prime Minister, we are supposed to be

:29:58. > :30:00.demonstrating global leadership, in our actions we have demonstrated

:30:01. > :30:06.nothing other than we have failed in their duty to do that. We are indeed

:30:07. > :30:12.following in his suit debts and I do not intend to go in that direction.

:30:13. > :30:19.It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I am grateful for the

:30:20. > :30:22.opportunity to speak in this debate, not least because my constituency

:30:23. > :30:26.has the third highest number of signatures on the petition, so it is

:30:27. > :30:31.a happy coincidence that I have had the opportunity to respond on behalf

:30:32. > :30:35.of the opposition. Mr Turner, we know the petition is approaching the

:30:36. > :30:38.2 million mark. We know from the hundreds of letters we have received

:30:39. > :30:45.in our officers, and from the thousands that joined in one myself

:30:46. > :30:47.and the Member for Brent Central went on the public protest earlier

:30:48. > :30:53.this month, that there is immense public concern not only about the

:30:54. > :30:59.behaviour and confrontational nature of the President's approach, but

:31:00. > :31:06.also the position that our own government has taken in relation to

:31:07. > :31:11.the President's livid. The right honourable member for Newport West

:31:12. > :31:16.gave some excellent examples in his opening contribution, and so many

:31:17. > :31:21.members have made passionate speeches this evening. We know so

:31:22. > :31:26.well from what the Member for Trotman said that the United States

:31:27. > :31:30.is one of her closest allies and strongest trading partners, although

:31:31. > :31:34.I would hasten to add that they were not the only partners in the world

:31:35. > :31:39.wars that were fought. There were some other very important partners

:31:40. > :31:43.from the Commonwealth partners. We should not forget history, it is

:31:44. > :31:46.very important. -- the Commonwealth countries. The importance really is

:31:47. > :31:50.about the relationship that it was great to hear the member also from

:31:51. > :31:53.Birmingham's speaking about his experience of studying in the US,

:31:54. > :31:57.because there is nothing like an experience at university to really

:31:58. > :32:04.hammer home that sense of friendship. Now, we have... Of

:32:05. > :32:09.course. Does she agree with me on that point also the staff that work

:32:10. > :32:15.at places like the American State Department, their consulates and

:32:16. > :32:18.embassies, I spent 18 months working for the American consulate in

:32:19. > :32:22.Edinburgh and was with them on the evening of the election and can see

:32:23. > :32:24.how devastated they were at the thought president Trump was being

:32:25. > :32:27.elected. They are now at the forefront of having to visit any

:32:28. > :32:30.public and work with the public when he is making such a poor

:32:31. > :32:37.understatements. I thank the Member for that intervention and did rather

:32:38. > :32:40.feel of sympathy for the woman who was quite unceremoniously sacked

:32:41. > :32:45.following the imposition of the ban, and having run a local authority

:32:46. > :32:48.myself, I know how he did elected members can get and decide to run

:32:49. > :32:52.into the chamber or white house and suddenly decide this is the policy

:32:53. > :32:57.of the day and the poor old staff have to respond and think up how

:32:58. > :33:01.this policy can actually come into effect. That is why I suppose

:33:02. > :33:09.certain states have actually lead to question the actual legal basis for

:33:10. > :33:16.the famous and so-called Muslim ban. Just to comment briefly, Mr Turner,

:33:17. > :33:20.on the issues that we really should be talking about today, around

:33:21. > :33:22.tackling international crime and terrorism, working together to

:33:23. > :33:27.address the mass movement of people across the globe and the reinforcing

:33:28. > :33:32.international policies to combat climate change. Sadly, instead, we

:33:33. > :33:38.are somehow fallen into the trap of responding confrontation early to

:33:39. > :33:44.somehow making policy pronouncements by Twitter. I do hope that we can

:33:45. > :33:48.right the ship again and get back to our more measured way of discussing,

:33:49. > :33:52.debating and taking a little more time to consider the importance of

:33:53. > :33:56.our foreign policy. Returning briefly to the language of the

:33:57. > :33:59.petition, one concern outlined in the text of the British and bloggers

:34:00. > :34:04.of the potential embarrassment a state visit may cause to Her

:34:05. > :34:07.Majesty. However, a you're there is a greater concern. That proceeding

:34:08. > :34:11.with the organisation of a state visit whilst he remained intent upon

:34:12. > :34:16.enforcing his title, travel ban on nationals from various countries

:34:17. > :34:20.would send the wrong message to the White House right now, when we are

:34:21. > :34:25.trying to establish a relationship of equals. The international

:34:26. > :34:28.community, and indeed the sizeable Gasparotto Mac from the band

:34:29. > :34:35.countries, do resent your inner constituencies. -- do reside here in

:34:36. > :34:38.our constituencies. It is not about one group has been singled out, it

:34:39. > :34:42.is the fact that any group has been singled out because it is the nature

:34:43. > :34:48.of that discrimination which is so random that really strikes the end

:34:49. > :34:51.the hearts of so many. We know that the German Chancellor, Angela

:34:52. > :34:55.Merkel, took the president to task on the travel ban and how it

:34:56. > :34:59.amounted to a breach of the refugee Convention. I think many would

:35:00. > :35:03.expect the same of the Prime Minister of the UK, and as such I

:35:04. > :35:06.share the disappointment of hundreds of thousands of citizens he felt

:35:07. > :35:12.totally let down by the lack of robust readership, not least because

:35:13. > :35:16.it simply worrying message that our foreign policy is overwhelmingly

:35:17. > :35:19.focused as determined by trade but I welcome a commitment for the

:35:20. > :35:23.Minister that we have a more rounded foreign policy, just trade but the

:35:24. > :35:27.importance of human rights and the importance of national security.

:35:28. > :35:32.Presidents of the United States have often made official visits, as so

:35:33. > :35:36.many have mentioned today. Maybe they have come for summit meetings

:35:37. > :35:41.or other evidence within months of the inauguration, however as has

:35:42. > :35:46.been made so clear today, state visits do require an invitation and

:35:47. > :35:49.historically have taken place over a considerably longer period,

:35:50. > :35:54.following the inauguration, than the one currently proposed for president

:35:55. > :35:58.Trump. I thought the Member for wand and made a very important point,

:35:59. > :36:02.that perhaps in a more considered approach, we could ask that one of

:36:03. > :36:08.her committee 's review our approach to state visits. That would also I

:36:09. > :36:15.think protect a Prime Minister who perhaps hot on the hop abroad could

:36:16. > :36:17.say that there was a system of going through something whereby

:36:18. > :36:21.parliament, she could be protected by Parliament in that way, rather

:36:22. > :36:26.than perhaps fitting out in what was rather unfortunate and risky

:36:27. > :36:29.endeavour. Little was she in the air and suddenly the ban had been

:36:30. > :36:32.announced and she was really caught in a position where she had to

:36:33. > :36:36.respond so quickly to that, whereas had she been able to say due

:36:37. > :36:41.process, we have a process for deciding these things and we will

:36:42. > :36:45.let you know, I think that would have been a much more diplomatic,

:36:46. > :36:52.considered and sensible approach. I do hope that the Minister will

:36:53. > :36:56.comment on the member's suggestion. As the Member for Hampstead and

:36:57. > :36:59.Kilburn pointed out, Prime Minister announced the invitation just a week

:37:00. > :37:03.after he took office, so perhaps a little more thought on the timing of

:37:04. > :37:08.it would have been much more helpful, and would perhaps have led

:37:09. > :37:14.to this concern by our own citizens, who we can hear outside tonight. --

:37:15. > :37:18.less concern. Other members have also pointed out quite eloquently

:37:19. > :37:26.the importance of our values around women's rights. Andy, the Member for

:37:27. > :37:30.Bradford West talking about her own constituency, where clearly messages

:37:31. > :37:39.around misogyny and racism were so unwelcome. So, to sum up, Mr Turner,

:37:40. > :37:41.we share the concern of so many Parliamentary colleagues and

:37:42. > :37:46.millions of people across the UK. Over both the timing and context in

:37:47. > :37:49.which the invitation for this state visit was issued. I would be keen to

:37:50. > :37:54.know whether the Minister himself, who we all know is an honourable

:37:55. > :37:56.man, had any personal discussions with the Foreign Secretary or indeed

:37:57. > :38:03.the Prime Minister over the timing of the invitation, the designation

:38:04. > :38:06.of the visit as a state visit? Given that he himself believes the

:38:07. > :38:13.rhetoric around this travel ban unacceptably anti-Muslim, and a

:38:14. > :38:18.quarter. Secondly I would like to give in -- and I quote him. I would

:38:19. > :38:22.also like to give them the opportunity to admit this was an era

:38:23. > :38:26.op in judgment, in essence. The position is clear, we are opposed to

:38:27. > :38:31.Mr Trump being honoured with a state visit so early in his presidency and

:38:32. > :38:36.certainly whilst he remained intent on enforcing this discriminatory

:38:37. > :38:39.travel ban. Should it go ahead, I am strongly opposed to offering him the

:38:40. > :38:45.honour of addressing both houses of parliament in Westminster Hall so

:38:46. > :38:48.early. At this point, I would like to associate myself with the remarks

:38:49. > :38:53.of these Speaker of the House of Commons, and indeed the sentiments

:38:54. > :38:55.of the early day motion 890, tabled by my excellent honourable friend

:38:56. > :39:04.the Member for Cardiff South and pillars. I have one more sentence.

:39:05. > :39:07.They are in that case... Which Magellan private members today have

:39:08. > :39:10.reaffirmed parliament's from role and commitments to the principles of

:39:11. > :39:17.the rule of law and the independence as well as our national independence

:39:18. > :39:20.of the judiciary as other opposition to racism and sexism. He promoted as

:39:21. > :39:24.a pleasure to serve under a German ship. In response to the two

:39:25. > :39:28.petitions which are triggered this debate and putting wasn't into the

:39:29. > :39:31.arguments on both sides, I would like to fit the position of Majesty

:39:32. > :39:35.'s government considered the thinking behind it. The state visit,

:39:36. > :39:39.people have mentioned today, is a uniquely British construct. No other

:39:40. > :39:43.country is able to offer a state visit in quite the same way as we

:39:44. > :39:47.do. It is distinctively British. Over the course of her reign, Her

:39:48. > :39:54.Majesty has hosted over 100 of them. All such visits are a rear and

:39:55. > :39:59.prestigious occasion. But they are also our most important diplomatic

:40:00. > :40:04.tool. They enable us to strengthen and influence those international

:40:05. > :40:06.relationships that are of the greatest strategic importance to

:40:07. > :40:11.this country and even more widely to other parts of the world as well. In

:40:12. > :40:16.answer to honourable speaks for the front bench for the opposition,

:40:17. > :40:19.recommendations for state visits are made on the advice of the government

:40:20. > :40:24.through the royal visits committee, not by Parliament as such. That

:40:25. > :40:26.committee is attended by representatives of the Royal

:40:27. > :40:29.household, Downing Street, the Cabinet office, Department for trade

:40:30. > :40:37.and is chaired by the Foreign Office. Mr Turner, in an uncertain

:40:38. > :40:39.and increasingly dangerous world, the ability... No, I am going to

:40:40. > :40:46.make progress. The ability to work closely with key countries is of

:40:47. > :40:50.critical importance. Strong alliances and close relationships

:40:51. > :40:57.are a central, stabilising pillar for world security. And this is an

:40:58. > :41:02.increasingly unstable world. Yet, always within that world, and

:41:03. > :41:04.throughout modern history, united states and the united Kingdom have

:41:05. > :41:10.worked together side-by-side bring peace and security during times of

:41:11. > :41:14.danger and uncertainty. Especially with the world as it is today, that

:41:15. > :41:21.is why a state visit matters so much. Put simply, diplomacy matters.

:41:22. > :41:25.The relationship between United Kingdom and United States is built

:41:26. > :41:28.around a common language, the common principles of freedom and democracy

:41:29. > :41:34.and common interests in so many other areas besides. Our

:41:35. > :41:39.relationship is undoubtedly special. On security, on defence, on trade,

:41:40. > :41:41.on investment, on all of these issues, the United Kingdom and

:41:42. > :41:48.United States are and will remain the closest of partners. United

:41:49. > :41:51.States is the world's greatest power, and in light of America's

:41:52. > :41:56.absolutely pivotal role, we believe it is entirely right that we should

:41:57. > :42:00.use all the tools at our disposal to build common ground with President

:42:01. > :42:06.Trump. Now, at the Battle of others passed seamlessly, constitutionally,

:42:07. > :42:10.from one president to another, we were already well placed to have a

:42:11. > :42:14.productive and meaningful engagement with the new administration. -- at

:42:15. > :42:17.the Battle of others passed. The British others in Washington has

:42:18. > :42:20.been working with the administration figures for many months. British

:42:21. > :42:22.secretaries of State have built relationships with their opposite

:42:23. > :42:29.numbers following their congressional confirmation process.

:42:30. > :42:33.A pro-Minister's visit last month was of enormous significance. -- the

:42:34. > :42:35.Prime Minister's visit. The foreign defence secretaries met their

:42:36. > :42:42.opposite numbers only last week and on Friday, I met the Homeland

:42:43. > :42:47.Security secretary. This engagement places our national interest at the

:42:48. > :42:52.heart of our government's decision-making, and the special

:42:53. > :42:55.relationship with a central part of that national interest. It is a

:42:56. > :43:00.relation... No, I am going to keep going. It is a relationship which

:43:01. > :43:04.transcends political parties on both sides of the Atlantic and it is

:43:05. > :43:07.bigger than individual personalities. It is about the

:43:08. > :43:14.security and the prosperity of our two nations. Mr Turner, the Prime

:43:15. > :43:19.Minister's meeting with President Trump in Washington last month

:43:20. > :43:23.identified many areas of common interest where we will work with the

:43:24. > :43:25.new administration. The state visit will provide the opportunity to

:43:26. > :43:29.advance the common interests further. In respect of timing, which

:43:30. > :43:35.has been mentioned in this debate, state visits are not necessarily the

:43:36. > :43:41.sole preserve of long serving heads of state. In the past, a state visit

:43:42. > :43:45.has been extended to the president of South Africa, France, South

:43:46. > :43:50.Korea, Finland and Poland, amongst others, each within their first year

:43:51. > :43:53.of office. And the government, I will just give away their funds,

:43:54. > :43:59.otherwise I will not be able to answer all the points. -- I will

:44:00. > :44:03.just give way best ones. What would he not agree that to extend a state

:44:04. > :44:07.visit in this way and at this time could be seen, and has been seen by

:44:08. > :44:11.many of my constituents, is effectively a validation of the

:44:12. > :44:16.views and the statements of President Trump and in that way they

:44:17. > :44:17.feel very, very concerned about the message that it sends?

:44:18. > :44:23.I understand exactly what the honourable lady has fed and accept

:44:24. > :44:27.that is the strong and perfectly powerful counter argument to the

:44:28. > :44:32.case that I am making, but I do not accept that the process of a state

:44:33. > :44:35.visit will indeed be seen as such validation, and I would like just to

:44:36. > :44:41.explain a bit further what I think the value of this state visit will

:44:42. > :44:45.entail. Because, Mr Turner, the government strongly believes that it

:44:46. > :44:49.is a perfectly legitimate decision to use the real impact of an

:44:50. > :44:53.invitation to maximise the diplomatic significance of a state

:44:54. > :44:57.visit at the start of President Trump's term of office. Both

:44:58. > :45:01.President Obama and President George W Bush visited the UK on a state

:45:02. > :45:04.visit during their first term in office, so it is entirely

:45:05. > :45:08.appropriate that President Trump should be indicted in his first term

:45:09. > :45:12.as well. Let me also be clear, because this has also been raised

:45:13. > :45:13.today. Neither the precise timing nor the content of the proposed

:45:14. > :45:31.visit had hit been agreed. Mention has been made of the

:45:32. > :45:37.prospect of the president addressing parliament. Only on three occasions

:45:38. > :45:43.have the visitor addressed both Houses. President to call in 1960,

:45:44. > :45:50.President Mandela in 1996 and President Obama in 2011. Whether

:45:51. > :45:57.this ever happens is an issue solely for the relevant Parliamentary

:45:58. > :46:02.authorities to determine. There are tens of thousands of people

:46:03. > :46:13.demonstrating outside, I am having difficulty hearing the Minister.

:46:14. > :46:25.Now, you're not. That is not eligible. Sit down. Thank you. So I

:46:26. > :46:30.continue in talking about the prospect of anyone talking to both

:46:31. > :46:37.Houses to save a comment on whether or not this might happen has run

:46:38. > :46:40.ahead of itself because no request has ever been received from

:46:41. > :46:46.Washington for any Parliamentary event to take place. The question of

:46:47. > :46:51.addressing parliament has not been mentioned. Any discussion or

:46:52. > :46:55.judgment about this possibility is purely speculative. Within the views

:46:56. > :47:02.that have been expressed about the appropriateness of the state visit

:47:03. > :47:07.for the president, I would argue a fundamental principle that members

:47:08. > :47:11.should consider, the principle of freedom of speech. President Trump

:47:12. > :47:14.was democratically elected by the American people under their own

:47:15. > :47:20.constitutional system. To have strong views about him is one matter

:47:21. > :47:25.but to translate a difference of opinion in to demands to ban hen is

:47:26. > :47:29.quite another. Given the understandable questions on certain

:47:30. > :47:34.policy stances which arise at any change of government, it is prudent

:47:35. > :47:39.for us to work closely alongside the United States as the new

:47:40. > :47:42.administration charts this course. Already Rhys Healey importance of

:47:43. > :47:48.that engagement with the Prime minister's early meeting with the

:47:49. > :47:56.resident, eliciting key commitments on Nato X code -- echoed by the vice

:47:57. > :48:00.president and leading roadwork for a post-Brexit trade agreement. Further

:48:01. > :48:08.constructive engagement will be held by state visit. Mr Turner, in

:48:09. > :48:14.February 19 17, one century ago, the Spectator magazine published its hue

:48:15. > :48:21.on the United States and the UK. It read, it would be easy to write down

:48:22. > :48:25.100 reasons why unclouded friendship and moral cooperation between the

:48:26. > :48:29.United States and Britain are benefit to the world and why an

:48:30. > :48:35.interruption of such relations is adept -- detriment to progress and

:48:36. > :48:40.the disease worldwide in its effects. It when torn, but when we

:48:41. > :48:45.have written down all those reasons, we should not have expressed their

:48:46. > :48:50.sentiments which go below and beyond. To our way of feeling,

:48:51. > :48:53.quarrelling and misunderstanding between the British and American

:48:54. > :48:59.peoples are like anything contrary to nature. They are so contrary to

:49:00. > :49:06.nature that the times of misunderstanding have always seem to

:49:07. > :49:12.others... And the return to friendship merely a resumption of

:49:13. > :49:17.their normal. It is that historic normality that is reflected in this

:49:18. > :49:21.invitation. This is a special moment for the special relationship. Mr

:49:22. > :49:26.Turner, the visit should happen, that it will happen and when it

:49:27. > :49:33.does, I trust the United Kingdom will extend a polite and generous

:49:34. > :49:37.welcome to President Donald Trump. This has been an extraordinary event

:49:38. > :49:44.and the petitions committee has come of age in this debate. How can we

:49:45. > :49:49.have such a situation where the Minister has given his carefully

:49:50. > :49:56.manicure at civil service briefing were outside we have a Greek chorus

:49:57. > :50:02.of disapproval in his case. Now we're expressing the voice of the

:50:03. > :50:06.people and a thunderous voice it has been. One point, I believe the

:50:07. > :50:12.debate went off the rails when a number of members suggested their

:50:13. > :50:19.petitioners were asking for a ban on President Trump. Not one of the 2

:50:20. > :50:23.million people are asking for a ban. In the large petition, they are

:50:24. > :50:29.asking for it to be downgraded from a state visit, that is the whole

:50:30. > :50:35.point. By giving this rare accolade of the state visit to President

:50:36. > :50:43.Trump, the implication is that we approve of him and his policies. It

:50:44. > :50:47.is fine to have the president he on business, there is no objection to

:50:48. > :50:53.that, at this committee today has proved by this marvellous debate

:50:54. > :50:59.that we are reacting to the voice of the people. To the anger and fear

:51:00. > :51:08.that is outside and it is a good day for Parliament. The question is that

:51:09. > :51:12.this House has considered Rick e-petition -- Vic e-petition

:51:13. > :51:19.relating to a state visit by President Donald Trump. As many of

:51:20. > :51:23.that opinion is the eye. To the contrary, no. I think they know

:51:24. > :51:30.have. Order, order.