0:00:00 > 0:00:00- *
0:00:00 > 0:00:00- *- - *
0:00:00 > 0:00:06- # Let us go to his gracious throne
0:00:07 > 0:00:08- # Let us raise... #
0:00:08 > 0:00:10- According to a recent review...
0:00:10 > 0:00:14- ..over half the British - population are atheists.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17- Tonight, we ask if this - is the beginning of the end...
0:00:18 > 0:00:19- ..for Christianity in Wales?
0:00:21 > 0:00:25- The plain truth is - this is the end of a chapter.
0:00:25 > 0:00:29- When a chapter ends, - some things stop for good.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33- We reveal new statistics - which highlight the fall...
0:00:34 > 0:00:38- ..in membership - amongst the main denominations.
0:00:39 > 0:00:40- The way we worship...
0:00:41 > 0:00:45- ..and gather together as Christians - is coming to an end.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49- As our chapels and churches empty...
0:00:49 > 0:00:54- ..we ask if Wales - is losing its faith.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59- It's not looking good for you - right now.
0:00:59 > 0:01:00- You're right.
0:01:00 > 0:01:04- Questions were raised in 1990 - that were raised in 1980.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07- How do we face - the statistical decline?
0:01:07 > 0:01:09- You're failing right now.
0:01:09 > 0:01:10- You're failing right now.- - I think we are.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22- Capel y Graig, Machynlleth.
0:01:22 > 0:01:23- Since 1789...
0:01:24 > 0:01:27- ..this has been home - to the Independents in the town.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31- Today, the Bible leaves the pulpit - for the final time.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35- Things have come to a head.
0:01:35 > 0:01:39- We decided about two years ago - that we had to close.
0:01:39 > 0:01:44- Unfortunately, the only option - for us was to close the chapel.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48- Today is the final service, - the dissolution service.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51- I declare in their names...
0:01:52 > 0:01:55- ..that the covenant - made by the founders...
0:01:55 > 0:01:59- ..to establish - a congregational church...
0:01:59 > 0:02:02- ..has been annulled.
0:02:02 > 0:02:07- No services have been held - in the chapel since January 2016.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10- Today, the service is being held - in the vestry.
0:02:11 > 0:02:15- I can remember the wonderful sounds - from this chapel...
0:02:17 > 0:02:19- ..of the cymanfaoedd of yesteryear.
0:02:19 > 0:02:25- It's a sad situation and a situation - that's becoming more common.
0:02:25 > 0:02:32- Eternal God, - we come to thee in prayer...
0:02:32 > 0:02:35- ..as generations before us - came to you.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39- After more than - two centuries of worship...
0:02:40 > 0:02:43- ..the doors of the chapel - will close for the final time.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49- As we come to share bread and wine - together...
0:02:52 > 0:02:56- ..Mairlynne, - can you help me share the bread?
0:02:56 > 0:02:59- I will publically state...
0:02:59 > 0:03:03- ..that this service - would have happened years ago...
0:03:03 > 0:03:08- ..without Mair's perseverance - and hard work.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11- There are no members - attending the chapel.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15- We have to pay for the upkeep - of the chapel.
0:03:17 > 0:03:19- That's the two main factors.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22- There are no officers or trustees.
0:03:22 > 0:03:27- Unfortunately, - it's become impossible to carry on.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29- Do this in remembrance of me.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32- It's a very sad day.
0:03:33 > 0:03:37- That's the situation we face - and it's impossible to carry on.
0:03:39 > 0:03:45- Many other chapels and churches - have closed down in recent years.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49- I tried to measure - the size of the decline.
0:03:50 > 0:03:55- I asked for figures from the Church - in Wales, the Catholic Church...
0:03:55 > 0:03:59- ..and some of Wales' - main nonconformist denominations...
0:04:00 > 0:04:03- ..the Independents, - Presbyterians and Baptists.
0:04:03 > 0:04:08- I wanted to measure the strength - of Christianity in Wales today.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13- According to the figures - we received...
0:04:13 > 0:04:19- ..over 350 Welsh worship houses - have closed over the past decade.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29- In Talysarn, Nantlle Vale, - six chapels and churches...
0:04:29 > 0:04:33- ..used to open their doors - in a village of 2,000 people.
0:04:34 > 0:04:38- I visited Talysarn - and met former MP Betty Williams.
0:04:38 > 0:04:43- She's sad to see - five places of worship closed.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47- Look at the state of Capel Mawr.
0:04:47 > 0:04:52- There were a lot of worshippers - in Capel Mawr and Capel Seion.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54- Both are two-storey buildings.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57- The Baptist chapel, Capel Salem...
0:04:58 > 0:05:00- ..that's also two-storey.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04- Capel Moreia, the Wesleyan chapel, - used to be here.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06- It also had a chapel house.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08- Betty Williams is a chapel elder - in Seion.
0:05:09 > 0:05:11- It's the only chapel - that remains open here.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14- The village has changed.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18- When I walk to chapel on Sunday, - I might not see anyone.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22- I used to see and greet - the other people attending chapel.
0:05:22 > 0:05:26- We all knew each other - and took an interest in each other.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29- The hustle and bustle of life - has taken over.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32- Seion Independent chapel - has 16 members.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37- Only six - are in the congregation today.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41- We're not a large group - but we are close.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44- If there's something to do, - we'll all help.
0:05:45 > 0:05:49- It's a worry that we're not - attracting younger members.
0:05:49 > 0:05:50- That's my main worry.
0:05:53 > 0:05:57- The chapel has no Sunday school - or minister.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02- The worshippers are determined - to persevere.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08- We're the older generation - but we are committed.
0:06:08 > 0:06:13- What will happen when the older - generation are no longer here?
0:06:13 > 0:06:15- I can't answer that.
0:06:15 > 0:06:20- That make us sad - but it makes us want to battle on...
0:06:20 > 0:06:22- ..while we can.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26- We can't do more than that. - We're doing as much as we can.
0:06:26 > 0:06:31- The headquarters of the Union - of Welsh Independents is in Swansea.
0:06:33 > 0:06:35- Two point six.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39- The union is trying - to make Christianity attractive...
0:06:39 > 0:06:41- ..in the modern age.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44- This sound is being recorded - for a new app.
0:06:45 > 0:06:49- Being a hero means going on an - adventure and discovering stories...
0:06:50 > 0:06:52- ..to share in Ancora.
0:06:52 > 0:06:57- The Arwyr Ancora app is available - for smartphones and tablets.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00- It gives children an opportunity - to play games...
0:07:01 > 0:07:03- ..and learn about Jesus.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05- Choose your character below.
0:07:06 > 0:07:07- Welcome to Ancora.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11- I hope it grabs the imagination - of our youngsters...
0:07:11 > 0:07:14- ..and I hope we can convince - the parents.
0:07:14 > 0:07:20- As a parent, I know how much - children play these modern devices.
0:07:21 > 0:07:27- This will introduce the story - of Jesus in the most up-to-date way.
0:07:28 > 0:07:34- Beti-Wyn James is the minister - at Y Priordy chapel in Carmarthen.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37- The chapel has taken steps - to modernise.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42- The elders' pew has been removed - and TV screens have been installed.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47- Beti-Wyn James uses contemporary - methods in her services.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53- According to Beti-Wyn, the chapel - is flourishing with 200 members...
0:07:53 > 0:07:57- ..but she doesn't want to place - too much emphasis on numbers...
0:07:58 > 0:08:01- ..when measuring - the importance of chapels.
0:08:07 > 0:08:11- We've begun to measure success - in terms of numbers...
0:08:11 > 0:08:15- ..but it doesn't always ring true - in this context.
0:08:15 > 0:08:19- I have two other chapels - with smaller congregations.
0:08:19 > 0:08:24- I doubt I'll see a congregation - as large as this in the other two...
0:08:24 > 0:08:29- ..but they are close communities - and important in their localities.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33- Over the past two years, four - chapels in Carmarthen have closed.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38- Beti-Wyn insists that - Christianity has a role to play...
0:08:38 > 0:08:40- ..in people's lives.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45- The chapels have been convenient - places to worship...
0:08:45 > 0:08:50- ..but when chapels close, we must - safeguard the chapel's society.
0:08:50 > 0:08:55- Often, when chapels close, - it's down to dwindling membership.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57- Dwindling membership, yes.
0:08:57 > 0:09:02- Even when there is good membership, - the commitment isn't always there.
0:09:03 > 0:09:07- It's important to safeguard - the membership we have...
0:09:10 > 0:09:13- ..and ensure that they - are eager to continue...
0:09:13 > 0:09:17- ..after the cause they were - a part of has closed.
0:09:18 > 0:09:23- After the service, Beti-Wyn James - joined be in Carmarthen town centre.
0:09:23 > 0:09:29- I wanted to know if people there - used to attend a chapel or church.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34- We're asking if you've attended - a chapel or church today.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36- No? Why haven't you been?
0:09:36 > 0:09:37- No time.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39- What do you do on Sundays?
0:09:39 > 0:09:41- What do you do on Sundays?- - Go shopping.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43- You prefer shopping.
0:09:43 > 0:09:45- Sometimes I attend church.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47- Why don't you go every Sunday?
0:09:47 > 0:09:51- I don't know, it's finding the time. - You know how it is, busy life.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54- She's asked to go, haven't you?
0:09:54 > 0:09:58- Many of her friends want to go. - She'll go with friends.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01- No, I haven't been, sorry.
0:10:01 > 0:10:03- Did you used to go?
0:10:03 > 0:10:08- When I was younger, her age. - I don't go anymore.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11- Why did you stop going? - Was there a reason?
0:10:14 > 0:10:16- It didn't do anything for me.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20- In Carmarthen on a Sunday morning...
0:10:21 > 0:10:26- ..shopping and sport was the - religion of those who spoke to us.
0:10:27 > 0:10:32- I wouldn't be happy if someone felt - they couldn't attend if they wanted.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34- We can't force them.
0:10:34 > 0:10:39- Our aim is to ensure - that the Church is a community...
0:10:39 > 0:10:42- ..with its doors flung open...
0:10:42 > 0:10:46- ..and a community where everyone, - whatever their background...
0:10:46 > 0:10:49- ..whatever their ability, - can be part of it.
0:10:50 > 0:10:54- People know there's a community - and a welcome in the Church...
0:10:54 > 0:10:58- ..but there's nothing there - that interests them.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00- Does that concern you?
0:11:00 > 0:11:02- It's a challenge for us.
0:11:02 > 0:11:06- It's a challenge for us - to present the gospel...
0:11:06 > 0:11:08- ..in a more interesting way...
0:11:08 > 0:11:12- ..but however interestingly - you present the gospel...
0:11:12 > 0:11:15- ..it's still a difficult challenge.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19- It's the same as trying to get me - to watch a football match.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22- I have no interest in it - and I won't go.
0:11:22 > 0:11:27- In Part 2, we reveal worrying new - statistics highlighting a decline...
0:11:28 > 0:11:32- ..in the membership - of Christian denominations in Wales.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35- I ask the leaders - of the denominations...
0:11:35 > 0:11:38- ..if they're doing enough - to keep the flame burning brightly.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44- Is it not a failure on your part, - and other denominations...
0:11:44 > 0:11:49- ..that you haven't been able - to sustain the congregations...
0:11:49 > 0:11:52- ..and attract people - through the doors?
0:11:52 > 0:11:57- It's not our role - to sustain past traditions.
0:11:57 > 0:12:04- Our task is to make the - Christian faith relevant today.
0:12:04 > 0:12:05- .
0:12:08 > 0:12:08- Subtitles
0:12:08 > 0:12:10- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:12:16 > 0:12:20- It's Sunday morning. - Dafydd Iwan is on his way to preach.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26- He supports merging - nonconformist denominations...
0:12:26 > 0:12:29- ..after seeing chapels closing - and congregations dwindling.
0:12:30 > 0:12:33- I don't do a head count.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37- If I did, my heart would have - been broken a long time ago.
0:12:37 > 0:12:41- I'm pleasantly - surprised sometimes...
0:12:42 > 0:12:49- ..because, often, I travel far - to preach to a congregation of six.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53- At other times, - that six can turn into 25.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57- Everyone can see - the decline happening.
0:12:59 > 0:13:03- He's worried that very few people - have responded to the decline...
0:13:03 > 0:13:05- ..or the closure - of churches and chapels.
0:13:07 > 0:13:12- Numbers are dwindling, the age - of the congregation is increasing...
0:13:12 > 0:13:14- ..and you have to ask the question.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17- What will be here - in ten years' time?
0:13:19 > 0:13:23- How much of a decline has there been - over the past few years?
0:13:28 > 0:13:31- I checked the most - recent membership figures...
0:13:31 > 0:13:34- ..for the Church in Wales, - the Catholic Church...
0:13:34 > 0:13:37- ..and the nonconformist - denominations.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42- Each one had lost at least - half their members since 1990.
0:13:43 > 0:13:47- Statistics show that only - 4% of the Welsh population...
0:13:47 > 0:13:50- ..are members of a church - or the main denominations.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58- I asked Dafydd Iwan - for his response to our research.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04- What do you make of the statistics - in these documents?
0:14:04 > 0:14:07- Very disheartening, - very frightful to be honest.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10- Then again, it's not a surprise.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14- This is the picture I see regularly - when I preach on Sundays.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18- One interesting thing - I can see in these figures...
0:14:18 > 0:14:24- ..is the belief that chapels - were suffering more than churches.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26- According to the figures...
0:14:27 > 0:14:30- ..the decline has affected - everyone the same.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34- There's been a dramatic decline - across the spectrum...
0:14:34 > 0:14:38- ..for all the denominations - and all the churches.
0:14:40 > 0:14:46- Bangor Cathedral attracts 200 people - on a normal Sunday.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51- Even though it attracts - a healthy congregation...
0:14:51 > 0:14:53- ..the Church has lost ground.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58- Since 2006, - over 100 Welsh churches have closed.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01- Almost another 100 - are not being used.
0:15:01 > 0:15:05- Bishop Andy John says - the Church in Wales...
0:15:05 > 0:15:07- ..needs to be more relevant.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09- If I regret anything...
0:15:09 > 0:15:11- ..I regret this.
0:15:13 > 0:15:19- We should have had the discussion - we're having today 20 years ago.
0:15:19 > 0:15:23- It's our fault, - the people leading the Church.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27- We could all see the statistics...
0:15:28 > 0:15:32- ..but we might not have been - radical enough.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36- The Church in Wales - manages to attract more people...
0:15:36 > 0:15:40- ..than any of - the nonconformist denominations.
0:15:40 > 0:15:46- Latest figures show 45,759 members - on their electoral list.
0:15:46 > 0:15:51- There were almost 100,000 - back in 1990.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54- As part of their 2020 Vision plan...
0:15:54 > 0:15:59- ..the Church published this report - in 2012.
0:15:59 > 0:16:03- According to the report, - the Church had to act quickly...
0:16:03 > 0:16:07- ..to continue to influence - Welsh public life.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10- The Bishop of Bangor - is one of those responsible...
0:16:10 > 0:16:13- ..for implementing - the recommendation.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16- Do you think the plan has worked?
0:16:17 > 0:16:19- On the whole, yes.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22- There are simple things - in the report...
0:16:22 > 0:16:26- ..but the more substantial aspects - are challenging the Church.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30- We need to modernise - the way we work.
0:16:30 > 0:16:35- We're changing slowly - but we must move forward...
0:16:35 > 0:16:39- ..and ensure we don't go back - to our old ways.
0:16:39 > 0:16:45- You said in 2012 that you were - giving yourselves three years.
0:16:45 > 0:16:50- During that three-year period, - you lost an extra 10,000 members.
0:16:50 > 0:16:54- It suggests that the plan - hasn't been a success.
0:16:54 > 0:17:00- I think the declining membership - will level out.
0:17:02 > 0:17:08- I don't think the Church is in - crisis but there is a challenge...
0:17:08 > 0:17:13- ..to ensure we can sustain - whatever we start.
0:17:13 > 0:17:17- That's one of the greatest - challenges for the Church.
0:17:17 > 0:17:22- We don't want to start things - just to see them fail.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25- We must ensure we can continue.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29- The Baptists face - the same challenge.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34- In 1990, they had 28,713 members.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38- They have 10,231 members this year.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41- It's a fall of almost two-thirds.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48- That's a really good idea, isn't it?
0:17:48 > 0:17:51- Wouldn't it be nice - to put flowers on Jesus's grave?
0:17:51 > 0:17:55- Judith Morris is the general - secretary of the Baptists Union.
0:17:57 > 0:18:04- She invited me to a summer school - in Salem, Tonteg, near Pontypridd.
0:18:06 > 0:18:10- 190 of the denomination's chapels - have closed since the early-'90s.
0:18:10 > 0:18:16- According to Judith Morris, some, - like this one, are flourishing.
0:18:16 > 0:18:22- To be honest, I'm sure more chapels - will have to close their doors...
0:18:22 > 0:18:26- ..but our role - is to try and help those chapels...
0:18:26 > 0:18:28- ..to keep the faith alive.
0:18:28 > 0:18:33- Isn't your role attracting - new members through the doors...
0:18:33 > 0:18:35- ..to keep the chapels open?
0:18:35 > 0:18:40- The union's work is to support - and encourage our chapels.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42- That hasn't been happening.
0:18:42 > 0:18:46- Membership is dwindling - - have you done your work properly?
0:18:46 > 0:18:48- These are different times.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51- We live in the shadow of the past...
0:18:51 > 0:18:54- ..when congregations - were in their hundreds.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57- Our situation has changed.
0:18:58 > 0:19:03- Some denominations have felt - that change more than others.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08- The denomination that's seen the - greatest decline in membership...
0:19:08 > 0:19:11- ..since 1990 is the Presbyterians.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15- Back then, - they had 61,616 members in Wales.
0:19:15 > 0:19:22- Today, that number has fallen - to 19,818, a fall of 68%.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26- You have around 20,000 members - in Wales.
0:19:26 > 0:19:30- You've witnessed a major decline - over the past 25 years.
0:19:31 > 0:19:36- What does the future hold for - your denomination in 15 years' time?
0:19:36 > 0:19:38- I think...
0:19:38 > 0:19:43- ..it's a crisis now, in a way...
0:19:43 > 0:19:48- ..that people living two generations - ago would never have imagined.
0:19:48 > 0:19:54- Of course, in our generation, - it's a crisis that's far too common.
0:19:56 > 0:20:01- Moving forward, I think - the Welsh Presbyterian Church...
0:20:01 > 0:20:05- ..will have to take - a long look at how we operate...
0:20:06 > 0:20:10- ..what are our expectations, - what we think we can do...
0:20:10 > 0:20:12- ..and what we'll have to surrender.
0:20:12 > 0:20:17- Strategically, - we need to target certain areas...
0:20:17 > 0:20:23- ..and accept that in some areas, - others are being more successful.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25- At the turn of the century...
0:20:25 > 0:20:29- ..there were moves to merge - the nonconformist denominations.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32- Those moves were unsuccessful.
0:20:32 > 0:20:37- Some encourage cooperation but - the denominations remain apart...
0:20:37 > 0:20:39- ..and continue to weaken.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44- The Independents - have dislodged the Presbyterians...
0:20:44 > 0:20:48- ..as Wales' most popular - nonconformist denomination.
0:20:48 > 0:20:54- According to the Independents Union, - they have 22,290 members.
0:20:55 > 0:20:59- That's a fall of 57% - since the early-'90s..
0:21:02 > 0:21:07- Isn't it a failure on your part and - other Christian leaders in Wales...
0:21:07 > 0:21:11- ..that you've not been able - to retain your congregations...
0:21:11 > 0:21:13- ..or attract new members?
0:21:14 > 0:21:20- No, our role isn't to sustain - the tradition of the past.
0:21:20 > 0:21:26- Our task is to make - the Christian faith relevant today.
0:21:26 > 0:21:31- Are you failing in that respect with - less people attending your services?
0:21:31 > 0:21:36- You're seeing the end of the old era - and the beginning of a new era.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38- We have a foot in each camp.
0:21:38 > 0:21:43- Back in Machynlleth, the old era - is over for Capel Y Graig.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47- With sorrow and sadness...
0:21:47 > 0:21:50- ..we cannot continue to say, - with Dafydd Iwan...
0:21:50 > 0:21:53- ..that Capel y Graig is still here.
0:21:56 > 0:22:00- Since its formation, - 14 ministers have served the chapel.
0:22:00 > 0:22:05- The final service is an - emotional one for the 14th minister.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10- As it happens, - there have been 14 ministers...
0:22:10 > 0:22:13- ..since seventeen eighty-something.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15- I'm the last of the 14.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17- That adds a little...
0:22:17 > 0:22:19- ..to the sadness.
0:22:20 > 0:22:27- Someone said that though the chapels - were made of stone and mortar...
0:22:27 > 0:22:30- ..this is where people were raised.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40- As she closes the door - for the final time...
0:22:40 > 0:22:45- ..Mairlynne Davies is worried - that her town and generation...
0:22:45 > 0:22:47- ..is losing its Christian faith.
0:22:47 > 0:22:52- There's a lot of apathy - and we can't attract the youngsters.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55- The future doesn't look bright...
0:22:55 > 0:22:59- ..unless we can attract - the children and youngsters.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20- S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.
0:23:20 > 0:23:21- .