0:00:02 > 0:00:07Tomorrow, the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be at the chamber
0:00:07 > 0:00:10across the road to make his annual statement
0:00:10 > 0:00:11on the state of the economy.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15And the BBC's biggest brains will be sitting around this task,
0:00:15 > 0:00:18analysing every word.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Tonight, we're keeping the seats warm and asking
0:00:21 > 0:00:24whether you have any confidence in the Chancellor's plans.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Y Sgwrs, live from Westminster tonight.
0:00:37 > 0:00:38Good evening.
0:00:38 > 0:00:43Vaughan and I have caught the Y Sgwrs Express to London this week.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46As well as tomorrow's statement we'll also be talking about
0:00:46 > 0:00:50the perspective on our education system from over the border.
0:00:50 > 0:00:54Yesterday Welsh students came bottom of the British table
0:00:54 > 0:00:57for their ability in maths, reading and science.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00I wonder if George Osborne's maths will be better tomorrow.
0:01:00 > 0:01:05But first, let's welcome Vaughan Roderick and tonight's guests.
0:01:05 > 0:01:06Professor Deian Hopkin,
0:01:06 > 0:01:10a historian who's spent his career in the education field.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Rhian Jones, who runs the London Welsh Society,
0:01:13 > 0:01:17and the Conservative MP Glyn Davies. Welcome.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22Let's start with the economy.
0:01:22 > 0:01:26First, we're visiting a small business near Caernarfon to see
0:01:26 > 0:01:29if there is a feeling, for the first Christmas in years, that the
0:01:29 > 0:01:31economy is improving.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34How much goodwill is there towards a politician who's
0:01:34 > 0:01:38introducing the latest step in his economic plans here in Westminster?
0:01:47 > 0:01:53Christmas is on the way. But before the celebrations, plans must be made.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55Before Father Christmas arrives, the Christmas tree needs to be
0:01:55 > 0:01:58prepared and decorated for the presents.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01The Chancellor is trying to do something similar with
0:02:01 > 0:02:05the economy - years of planning and watching the pennies before
0:02:05 > 0:02:08accepting the economic presents that he hopes are on the way.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12But the Chancellor is confident that the economy has turned a corner
0:02:12 > 0:02:15and that his economic strategy is about to bear fruit.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19Justin Williams works in the family business.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21Frongoch gardening centre by Caernarfon
0:02:21 > 0:02:25started off as a farm shop in the 1980s but they had to
0:02:25 > 0:02:29diversify over the years in order to respond to the demands of the market.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32In the last six years, we have started a cafe
0:02:32 > 0:02:37and have developed that side of things so food
0:02:37 > 0:02:39and people going out for a cuppa is very important to us.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43It ensures that people come here year round,
0:02:43 > 0:02:47through the winter, so that side has been important.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50The recession has affected us
0:02:50 > 0:02:53and we have two realise how people want to spend.
0:02:53 > 0:02:58People want good value for money.
0:02:58 > 0:03:03So we are here to advise and to ensure that they buy carefully.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08But the Labour Party is reading a different story.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11They are saying that though the economic figures are moving
0:03:11 > 0:03:14in the right direction, it is a recovery for the minority.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17With wages having stayed still and the cost of living rising,
0:03:17 > 0:03:21they are arguing that most people do not feel that things are improving.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25Like almost everybody else, Enid Lloyd Thomas,
0:03:25 > 0:03:28who runs the cafe in the garden centre, has seen
0:03:28 > 0:03:33the price of fuel and food rise appreciably over the last few years.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36Living in Anglesey, she has been able to find work easily enough,
0:03:36 > 0:03:39but it has not been the same for her friends.
0:03:40 > 0:03:46There is enough work in catering, but a lot of my friends have
0:03:46 > 0:03:53moved away to Cardiff or to England, to Chester.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56There is definitely more work away.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59Did they want to move, or did they have to?
0:03:59 > 0:04:02I think they had to in order to pursue their careers.
0:04:04 > 0:04:10It depends what you decide to do, of course.
0:04:10 > 0:04:15But there are definitely more opportunities in other places.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18We have already heard that help towards fuel costs is one of
0:04:18 > 0:04:22the presents that is likely to be in the Chancellor's snack on Thursday.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25He proposes to reduce fuel costs by around £50 a year
0:04:25 > 0:04:28and it is envisaged that married couples
0:04:28 > 0:04:30and civil partners will have to pay fewer taxes.
0:04:30 > 0:04:35There are suggestions that the increase in business taxes
0:04:35 > 0:04:38will be capped in order to encourage businesses and the high street.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40But what would the garden centre's customers like to
0:04:40 > 0:04:42hear from the Chancellor?
0:04:42 > 0:04:47I think he wants to look at what families are spending, to see
0:04:47 > 0:04:52what is causing waste and what is needed,
0:04:52 > 0:04:55especially in a rural area like Wales.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58You need a car to travel about,
0:04:58 > 0:05:02so how will he help people in approval areas?
0:05:02 > 0:05:06Is there anything the government could be doing to help you?
0:05:06 > 0:05:09Not to help me, no. I think I have enough.
0:05:09 > 0:05:17I'm retired so what the state gives me is enough, to be honest.
0:05:17 > 0:05:22I think it would be better if they helped young people. We get enough.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25So the people of Caernarfon would like a mixture of things
0:05:25 > 0:05:27in the economic stocking.
0:05:27 > 0:05:31But we shall see tomorrow what presents the Chancellor has to offer.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36James Williams and Vaughan, we have had a good luck at the stocking.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39George Osborne has shown most of his presents already.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42He has shown a bit of leg!
0:05:42 > 0:05:46Not many people can say, like that woman, that they have enough.
0:05:46 > 0:05:50There is a lot of pressure on him but he has a lot of freedom this time.
0:05:50 > 0:05:52The economy is growing better than expected,
0:05:52 > 0:05:57although there is doubt about its sustainability.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59But he has some kind of flexibility.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02We know some of the things he has done
0:06:02 > 0:06:04because they have already been announced,
0:06:04 > 0:06:09for instance that there will be free school meals for children in England.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11That means extra money for Wales
0:06:11 > 0:06:14but it is unlikely that Wales will follow the same pattern.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18We also know that there will be some kind of change in the tax
0:06:18 > 0:06:24which will benefit married couples and also, we know that petrol tax
0:06:24 > 0:06:27will be frozen
0:06:27 > 0:06:32and that there will be a cap on business rates.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35So, much of what he has said is already public,
0:06:35 > 0:06:40but it is certain that there will be the odd surprise. There always is.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43Glyn Davies, he wants the agenda back as well, doesn't he?
0:06:43 > 0:06:46To all intents and purposes, Labour is setting it at the moment.
0:06:46 > 0:06:48That is, the living costs.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52Everybody is discussing that and that's Ed Miliband's theme.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55The cost of living is important. I'm not sure...
0:06:55 > 0:06:58You said it was Ed Miliband's theme, I know that.
0:06:58 > 0:07:02But in Westminster it isn't like that.
0:07:02 > 0:07:06What we are going to see is something steady.
0:07:06 > 0:07:09We have already heard a lot and usually,
0:07:09 > 0:07:11there will be something new and unexpected.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15- There are still cuts to come, aren't there?- Yes, I know that.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18We are turning a corner
0:07:18 > 0:07:23but the deficit is still £100 billion a year.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27Debts are still going up. We still have problems.
0:07:27 > 0:07:31But things are better than they were and better than expected.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35Rhian, you live here in London. We can see growth everywhere.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38Vaughan and I were discussing earlier. You can see growth.
0:07:38 > 0:07:42You can't see it in Wales. It is a different world.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47It is a very different world and as a Cardi in London,
0:07:47 > 0:07:49it is a very difficult world to live in.
0:07:49 > 0:07:53What worries me most, whether in Cardiff or London...
0:07:53 > 0:07:56we're talking about the cost of living.
0:07:56 > 0:08:00Wages aren't going up, yet the cost of rent...
0:08:00 > 0:08:04we were talking earlier on about rent in London. Rent in London is bonkers.
0:08:04 > 0:08:06That's the only word I can use to describe it.
0:08:06 > 0:08:11Rents are going up in Wales as well but wages are not.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14But there is growth. Deian Hopkin, he is doing something right.
0:08:14 > 0:08:15Definitely.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18And on the macro level, you can see the statistics
0:08:18 > 0:08:23indicate there is growth, possibly better than the rest of Europe.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26But when you break down that growth, you will see a big difference.
0:08:26 > 0:08:27You mention London.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31London is an island, and central London is an island.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33If you go to the periphery of London, the south
0:08:33 > 0:08:37and the east, you will see a different pattern.
0:08:37 > 0:08:41But is there too much centralisation in London regarding the economy?
0:08:41 > 0:08:45Possibly, one of the great problems facing us
0:08:45 > 0:08:50is the over-emphasis on the financial industry.
0:08:50 > 0:08:542,700 people in London earn £1 million a year.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56But nurses and teachers and so on...
0:08:56 > 0:09:02It depends where you live in Britain. And also how old you are.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04Young people are suffering more.
0:09:04 > 0:09:08Glyn Davies, does George Osborne visit rural Wales occasionally?
0:09:08 > 0:09:11- No, he doesn't. Does he understand? - He talks to me.
0:09:11 > 0:09:12What do you say to him?
0:09:12 > 0:09:15I will be talking to George Osborne tomorrow morning.
0:09:15 > 0:09:20- I talk to George Osborne every month. - Does he listen?
0:09:20 > 0:09:24He listens sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't listen.
0:09:24 > 0:09:25That's what I would expect.
0:09:25 > 0:09:31As a member of Parliament from rural Wales, I can speak to
0:09:31 > 0:09:34George Osborne and David Cameron whenever I want.
0:09:34 > 0:09:35That is my situation.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39But the feeling I get sometimes, you remember back in the 1990s,
0:09:39 > 0:09:43John Major... people would talk about a voteless recovery.
0:09:43 > 0:09:46That is, that the economy would recover
0:09:46 > 0:09:49- but that it made no difference. - I hope it isn't like that.
0:09:49 > 0:09:54There is a feeling that the clock is ticking to the general election
0:09:54 > 0:09:58but the opinion polls do not reflect that.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02What is important for George Osborne, the Chancellor,
0:10:02 > 0:10:05Is that if it works for five years,
0:10:05 > 0:10:09and that after five years people feel better than
0:10:09 > 0:10:14they did in the beginning, and that the economy is better in Britain,
0:10:14 > 0:10:17people will say he has done a good job. If people don't feel like that,
0:10:17 > 0:10:20there will be a bit more of a problem.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22Rhian, do you feel that things are improving?
0:10:22 > 0:10:25- We can see it in London but do you feel this growth?- That is the thing.
0:10:25 > 0:10:27You asked whether George Osborne knows what is
0:10:27 > 0:10:30happening in rural Wales and the answer is probably no.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32He needs a bit of a reality check.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35People who live in the middle of London do not appreciate
0:10:35 > 0:10:41the challenge facing people who live in mid-Wales. We share that opinion.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45It is expensive to live in rural Wales
0:10:45 > 0:10:49because of the costs of the fuel and driving around.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53We are also seeing problems regarding health.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55The hospital I was born in, Bronglais,
0:10:55 > 0:10:57is having problems at the moment.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01So the growth can be seen in London but in Wales, I don't see it.
0:11:01 > 0:11:05I don't think ordinary people are going to see
0:11:05 > 0:11:07anything positive tomorrow.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10From the economy, education next.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13Could do better.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15Vaughan, did you get that on your school report?
0:11:15 > 0:11:20- In every subject, in every report! - Apart from politics, maybe.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23That's the opinion of the international Pisa assessments
0:11:23 > 0:11:25on education standards in Wales.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28This week, it became clear that Welsh students has slipped
0:11:28 > 0:11:32in these tests in maths, reading and science.
0:11:32 > 0:11:36In no time at all, the Westminster education minister, Michael Gove,
0:11:36 > 0:11:41mocked education standards in Wales under the Labour leadership.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45We talked to a mother here in London who has experienced
0:11:45 > 0:11:47the system in Wales and also in England.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56As a mother, one of my priorities is to make sure my children
0:11:56 > 0:11:59can reach their full potential.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03I just want to make sure that they can do their best
0:12:03 > 0:12:05and they enjoy the experience.
0:12:05 > 0:12:10My eldest daughter is now studying for her GCSEs.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16To be honest, the education she receives here is similar
0:12:16 > 0:12:18to how she was educated in Plas Mawr.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21It isn't better or worse, it is very similar.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25Ruben used to attend Pwll Coch
0:12:25 > 0:12:28and now goes to the Welsh School, London.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32I think he's receiving a better education
0:12:32 > 0:12:35because the class is smaller.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37The school itself is smaller.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42In London, I know that a lot of tutoring takes place.
0:12:43 > 0:12:47When we first moved to London we were surprised
0:12:47 > 0:12:50how much tutoring was taking place even in primary schools.
0:12:50 > 0:12:55Some children aged four or five would start with the tutoring.
0:12:55 > 0:13:00I understand now because they want to prepare their children
0:13:00 > 0:13:01for secondary school.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04In London, there's a huge problem with getting your child
0:13:04 > 0:13:07into the right secondary school and this and the other.
0:13:07 > 0:13:12There's a lot of focus here on making sure your child
0:13:12 > 0:13:18has reached the level in reading, writing and numeracy.
0:13:18 > 0:13:23I feel there is pressure on parents,
0:13:23 > 0:13:26that their children have reached the level in those.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30It's more than I felt in Wales, to be honest.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34What we have to remember as well, on the whole,
0:13:34 > 0:13:38depending on where you are, but definitely in London,
0:13:38 > 0:13:43parents, I think, have more money to spend
0:13:43 > 0:13:47on tutoring, whereas in Wales and many areas
0:13:47 > 0:13:50money isn't available to do that.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54That's another reason why children are in front.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56compared to areas in Wales
0:13:56 > 0:13:59where there are more underprivileged areas.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03Since moving to London three years ago what I've noticed is
0:14:03 > 0:14:06there are huge expectations
0:14:06 > 0:14:09not just in schools, what they expect from the children
0:14:09 > 0:14:11but also more from the parents.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13The parents push all the time.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17The schools have to accomplish a lot and they expect their children
0:14:17 > 0:14:19to accomplish as well.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24The Pisa results, why is there so much emphasis on them?
0:14:24 > 0:14:29The reason for that is what happened three years ago.
0:14:29 > 0:14:33The 2009 figures were terrible.
0:14:33 > 0:14:37They showed a significant fall since 2006,
0:14:37 > 0:14:39the first time the tests were held in Wales.
0:14:39 > 0:14:45Pisa has been promoted to be a sort of higher test
0:14:45 > 0:14:47for education in Wales.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50That isn't fair. There are other measures.
0:14:50 > 0:14:55But Pisa has been placed, if you like, as a political
0:14:55 > 0:14:58measuring stick on the success of the Welsh Government.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02Deian Hopkin, as someone who look at the education system from outside
0:15:02 > 0:15:04what has gone wrong?
0:15:04 > 0:15:08I agree with Vaughan. You can't depend on a tower that bends,
0:15:08 > 0:15:10that is, Pisa.
0:15:10 > 0:15:16It is one assessment but who decides who will answer the questions?
0:15:16 > 0:15:20I am very doubtful when one city in China, Shanghai,
0:15:20 > 0:15:22is in the lead. What about the rest of China?
0:15:22 > 0:15:25There are many questions surrounding Pisa itself.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29There is a danger we are too comfortable in our education system.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32One thing we can say is, there are too many people
0:15:32 > 0:15:35are being educated outside the public system.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39That means emphasis is being placed on private education.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43We don't know how that influences on the entire system.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46Are you saying there's too much neurosis in Wales about Pisa?
0:15:46 > 0:15:49Yes. I think we have to look at education in its entirety.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53Are people comfortable in their education?
0:15:53 > 0:15:54Do they feel their accomplishing?
0:15:54 > 0:15:57If you ask children they do think that.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00They're creative.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02But saying that, I think we should have a system
0:16:02 > 0:16:07which maintains mathematics for longer than it currently does.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12But, Glyn Davies, Michael Gove sees this as another opportunity
0:16:12 > 0:16:16to mock Wales, not only just the health service but education
0:16:16 > 0:16:18and Labour's failures as he sees them.
0:16:18 > 0:16:19Yes, but...
0:16:21 > 0:16:24We've heard Michael Gove say that but what's more important
0:16:24 > 0:16:26to Michael Gove is education in England.
0:16:26 > 0:16:31Sometimes he mentions what happens in Wales...
0:16:31 > 0:16:35But how do you feel hearing your minister mocking Wales like that?
0:16:35 > 0:16:38To be honest, I don't do that myself.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42I want to work with the Assembly and I don't think that helps.
0:16:42 > 0:16:47If something like this happens, the Pisa results are important
0:16:47 > 0:16:52and people look at them, we have to have a political answer.
0:16:52 > 0:16:54I understand that.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57But I don't want to concentrate on that.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01There are many other ways to measure how things work.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03Rhian, it was right across the news yesterday
0:17:03 > 0:17:06Wales was seen as a poor example of education.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08How did that make you feel?
0:17:08 > 0:17:10I felt pity...
0:17:10 > 0:17:12I have many friends who are teachers.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16People like to tease them that they get a lot of holidays and so on.
0:17:16 > 0:17:20But the truth is I sympathise with teachers in this situation
0:17:20 > 0:17:26because I think the job of a teacher is much more difficult now.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30It isn't something that's...
0:17:30 > 0:17:31Sorry.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34I was going to say I think we're exaggerating this.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38If you look at the difference between the top and bottom
0:17:38 > 0:17:41the gap isn't as shocking as people say.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44But if this is an international measuring stick
0:17:44 > 0:17:48a pupil doesn't want to apply to a university like yours
0:17:48 > 0:17:53and say he's come from Wales and maybe GCSEs are seen as inferior
0:17:53 > 0:17:55they are going to worry.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58Pisa doesn't count at all in that kind of thing.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00It isn't part of the consideration.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03The truth is we look at general education.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06How can people be accomplished?
0:18:06 > 0:18:08This is one measure, a part of the picture,
0:18:08 > 0:18:11But what is interesting I think is,
0:18:11 > 0:18:15the Assembly was, and Glyn was there in the early days,
0:18:15 > 0:18:18obsessed with the foundation phase.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20Raising standards.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23Those early years in primary school.
0:18:23 > 0:18:27What Pisa is doing perhaps is say, look,
0:18:27 > 0:18:30there are other parts of the education system you didn't look at.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33There are figures which suggest
0:18:33 > 0:18:38that the early years at secondary school
0:18:38 > 0:18:40are important especially for boys in Wales.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44It places the focus on something else.
0:18:44 > 0:18:46That's something social.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50Look at the social difference in people's abilities
0:18:50 > 0:18:52and also racial.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55There are people from Chinese and Indian backgrounds
0:18:55 > 0:18:57who are doing much better.
0:18:57 > 0:19:00Is it something to do with the home life?
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Is there something..?
0:19:02 > 0:19:04There is an interesting point there.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08Ten years ago people were complaining that those doing poorly in school
0:19:08 > 0:19:13were young boys from the black community.
0:19:13 > 0:19:18Now, people say they're the young boys from the white community.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21But their parents are very keen.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23I've seen them in Lambeth and Brixton,
0:19:23 > 0:19:25they are keen to succeed.
0:19:25 > 0:19:29They are facing social disadvantages.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31Rhian, there's a role here for parents?
0:19:31 > 0:19:34I agree, there is a role for parents. I don't have children
0:19:34 > 0:19:36so I don't want this to seem as criticism.
0:19:36 > 0:19:38You have to look at education in its entirety.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42You can put Pisa to one side and look at education.
0:19:42 > 0:19:44Education isn't a political weapon.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47We have to have a cross-party answer to this.
0:19:47 > 0:19:48Thank you for now.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52Here in Westminster many familiar faces prowl the corridors.
0:19:52 > 0:19:56A few from Wales have already announced they won't stand
0:19:56 > 0:19:58in the next general election.
0:19:58 > 0:20:03Here are the impressions of two who, after years in Westminster,
0:20:03 > 0:20:06are preparing to say goodbye to life in the Palace.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16I won't miss all the travelling.
0:20:16 > 0:20:22I won't miss the fact that almost every weekend is packed with work
0:20:22 > 0:20:23linked to the job.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27And I won't miss some of the late nights either.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31But, overall, I will miss a few things, too.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34The fact that every day is different,
0:20:34 > 0:20:36the debates are different and interesting
0:20:36 > 0:20:42and that you need to research and understand new subjects every week.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46It's a completely unnatural world, in a way.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50You live in a very small community.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54Only a thousand or two thousand people work here,
0:20:54 > 0:20:59so you have to get on with everyone.
0:21:00 > 0:21:02'Advice for your successor?'
0:21:02 > 0:21:07You have to develop a thick skin, roll you sleeves up,
0:21:07 > 0:21:12put the hours in and don't forget that you can achieve things
0:21:12 > 0:21:16by working together as often as arguing.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20I remember of friend of mine, Kim Howells, saying,
0:21:20 > 0:21:24"If you want advice, the only advice I can give you
0:21:24 > 0:21:28"is not to take advice from an MP."
0:21:29 > 0:21:31'What next?'
0:21:31 > 0:21:34Some rest.
0:21:34 > 0:21:38Everybody says more time with the family.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41I will spend more time writing, giving lectures,
0:21:41 > 0:21:47I'll go back to the legal world and I'll see granddaughters more often.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50I'm looking forward to that.
0:21:50 > 0:21:52I'll have more time to read
0:21:52 > 0:21:56and I'll spend a lot of time fishing in the rivers of North Wales.
0:22:00 > 0:22:04Glyn Davies, you're in Westminster, you've been at the Assembly.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06In terms of culture, which do you prefer?
0:22:06 > 0:22:09I enjoyed myself at the Assembly, to be honest.
0:22:09 > 0:22:13I didn't want to lose my seat at the Assembly
0:22:13 > 0:22:16but now I have to move forward.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18I enjoy myself wherever I am
0:22:18 > 0:22:21and I'm not stepping down, I'm standing in the next election.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23The diplomat!
0:22:23 > 0:22:27Deian Hopkin, have you ever been tempted to enter politics?
0:22:27 > 0:22:33I was raised in a political family. I know the price they have to pay.
0:22:33 > 0:22:35I wasn't willing to pay that price.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39I'm happy trying to run a university unsuccessfully.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41LAUGHTER
0:22:41 > 0:22:46- You must have had offers. - Yes, but terrible offers.
0:22:46 > 0:22:50I was never offered somewhere safe like Montgomeryshire.
0:22:50 > 0:22:51Safe?
0:22:51 > 0:22:54LAUGHTER
0:22:54 > 0:22:58Rhian, many are worried that a lot of women are leaving.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01- There aren't enough women in Westminster.- It's a concern.
0:23:01 > 0:23:06We need some girl power. I think I'm far too sensitive to enter politics.
0:23:06 > 0:23:11I face a lot of challenges at the centre, keeping people happy,
0:23:11 > 0:23:14and I think politics would be a bigger challenge.
0:23:14 > 0:23:18I suspect there is more politics at the London Welsh Centre
0:23:18 > 0:23:20than in the House of Commons.
0:23:20 > 0:23:21I'm saying nothing.
0:23:22 > 0:23:27What about the second chamber? Is it completely different?
0:23:27 > 0:23:31Oh, completely, but you have to immerse yourself in it
0:23:31 > 0:23:33and that is a burden.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37It's not an honour in itself, it's an obligation.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40If people get that offer, they have to commit to it
0:23:40 > 0:23:43and that is a different question.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47I really admire what Hywel and Elfyn have done
0:23:47 > 0:23:51but I think the situation for MPs in Westminster has changed
0:23:51 > 0:23:53since devolution.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57- I can see Deian in red! - And the vermin!
0:23:57 > 0:23:59Don't say that to my family!
0:23:59 > 0:24:04Do you think you can influence from the backbenches, Glyn Davies?
0:24:04 > 0:24:07You obviously speak to George Osborne every day.
0:24:07 > 0:24:10More influence than I expected, to be honest,
0:24:10 > 0:24:12but we can't see it.
0:24:12 > 0:24:15Saying something in the chamber has no effect.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19The only way to make a difference is to work with the government,
0:24:19 > 0:24:23that's why I always vote in support of the government.
0:24:23 > 0:24:28I want to make a difference, like with S4C this year.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30So you're not stepping down.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34"Carry on and on", as Mrs Thatcher once said.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38Thank you for joining us on Y Sgwrs.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41That's it for tonight.
0:24:41 > 0:24:45We'll be back home next week to continue the debate in Cardiff.
0:24:45 > 0:24:48From everyone on the team, from Westminster, good night.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd