0:00:00 > 0:00:01Welcome back.
0:00:01 > 0:00:05The NHS in Wales is under pressure once again, but behind the headlines,
0:00:05 > 0:00:07what are your experiences of the service?
0:00:07 > 0:00:09Is the NHS facing a crisis?
0:00:09 > 0:00:12We will be discussing that and more on tonight's Y Sgwrs.
0:00:22 > 0:00:26We will turn our attention to the NHS later and we will hear whether
0:00:26 > 0:00:29the Lleyn Peninsula's pensioners think there should be
0:00:29 > 0:00:31an official statements on their rights.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33And comedian Eilir Jones
0:00:33 > 0:00:36will be taking a look back at the political year.
0:00:36 > 0:00:41Vaughan is with us, and our guests in our last programme of 2013.
0:00:41 > 0:00:45Keith Davies, the Labour Assembly Member for Llanelli,
0:00:45 > 0:00:47Myfanwy Alexander, an independent councillor in Powys
0:00:47 > 0:00:51and the actor and author Mici Plwm,
0:00:51 > 0:00:54who also works for Age Cymru in North Wales.
0:00:54 > 0:00:56A warm welcome to you all.
0:00:56 > 0:01:01To start with, 2013 has been a turbulent year for the NHS,
0:01:01 > 0:01:04many problems have been highlighted this week.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07There have been headlines about people waiting
0:01:07 > 0:01:10for up to six hours in ambulances outside hospitals.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13There has been a critical report on problems facing the North Wales
0:01:13 > 0:01:17health board, and health boards in South Wales were preparing
0:01:17 > 0:01:19to announce restructuring plans tomorrow.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22They will no doubt be controversial.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25We'll now have to wait until the New Year for them.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28Vaughan, that raises the question, why is there this wait?
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Many people have voiced their anger it will be announced
0:01:31 > 0:01:37on the final day of the Assembly so they can't be discussed.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39Maybe that's part of it.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42Think about it for a second.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45We are talking here about a huge region.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48Think about the problems there have been in North Wales
0:01:48 > 0:01:50and West Wales already.
0:01:50 > 0:01:53We are now talking about a region
0:01:53 > 0:01:56where most of the Welsh population live.
0:01:56 > 0:02:01We have already seen the problems Leighton Andrews got into
0:02:01 > 0:02:07by talking about possible plans to cutting Llantrisant Hospital.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10These are the most controversial plans,
0:02:10 > 0:02:13and also the most important political plans
0:02:13 > 0:02:15for the next election.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19I think what is going on is to delay them
0:02:19 > 0:02:23in order to get the largest possible support for these plans.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27Keith Davies, people talk about restructuring services,
0:02:27 > 0:02:30some people call them downgrading services.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32It is a political hot potato.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35Is it difficult for you as the Labour Party?
0:02:35 > 0:02:36Is it difficult for you personally?
0:02:36 > 0:02:40We have seen you campaigning to save services at your hospital
0:02:40 > 0:02:44despite the fact the Government has approved changes?
0:02:44 > 0:02:48I think we have to have these changes,
0:02:48 > 0:02:51because there is huge pressure on the NHS.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55We want people to receive the best service.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58What is happening now in South Wales
0:02:58 > 0:03:02is there is disagreement between the doctors.
0:03:02 > 0:03:07And if they are not willing to discuss publicly,
0:03:07 > 0:03:11I don't know when we will get an answer from them.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14Is there an element of Nimby-ism in this argument?
0:03:14 > 0:03:18Everybody wants to see services staying local in their area.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22But they can't see the big picture with the financial squeeze.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26I think nearly everybody understands
0:03:26 > 0:03:29that services have to be revamped.
0:03:29 > 0:03:34But nobody wants these decisions to be made beforehand.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37I think communication is most important.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40If people understand the situation
0:03:40 > 0:03:42and the decisions are transparent,
0:03:42 > 0:03:45they will take part in the discussion.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49What happens very often is decisions are made behind scenes
0:03:49 > 0:03:50and then announced.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54Then people start an immediate campaign.
0:03:54 > 0:03:59I think these things should be discussed as adults.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02The largest health board is in North Wales, Mici Plwm,
0:04:02 > 0:04:04Betsi Cadwaladr.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06It has been under pressure recently
0:04:06 > 0:04:09because of this report on the cases of C.difficile.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13People are saying that small babies are being sent over the border
0:04:13 > 0:04:16to Arrowe Park.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20However, opinion polls show
0:04:20 > 0:04:24people across Wales seem to be happy with the NHS.
0:04:24 > 0:04:29So are the headlines different to people's experiences?
0:04:29 > 0:04:33I think you're talking about the service.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36The service on the wards,
0:04:36 > 0:04:40and I am talking about the nurses who look after the patients,
0:04:40 > 0:04:46I think the problem is with managers, that's where problems lie,
0:04:46 > 0:04:50because they have huge salaries.
0:04:50 > 0:04:55You talk about people going into hospital,
0:04:55 > 0:04:59I was in hospital around two-and-a-half years ago,
0:04:59 > 0:05:03and I was very ill.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07But the thing is you have to look at it.
0:05:07 > 0:05:12I was listening to what you said about small hospitals
0:05:12 > 0:05:15it is disappointing, it is sad that hospitals such as Blaenau Ffestiniog
0:05:15 > 0:05:19and similar hospitals have closed because of cuts.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23You can't make such cuts despite the economic climate we have.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27We have to look after people's health and care.
0:05:27 > 0:05:32The doctors and nurses don't get the respect they deserve.
0:05:34 > 0:05:38Our First Minister says that doctors are in favour
0:05:38 > 0:05:40of these changes.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44He says it is important that these changes happen
0:05:44 > 0:05:48so that we have safe services in Wales.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50That is a strong argument, isn't it?
0:05:50 > 0:05:53It is difficult to disagree with that argument.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55But remember, doctors are not gods.
0:05:55 > 0:05:59It is not their job to run the health service.
0:05:59 > 0:06:04Decisions have to be made to do with balance.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06Of course, if the service is completely unsafe,
0:06:06 > 0:06:10you have to change the way it is provided.
0:06:10 > 0:06:12But doctors have their own interests,
0:06:12 > 0:06:17and some people think that the support for some of these changes
0:06:17 > 0:06:21are to do with convenience for doctors
0:06:21 > 0:06:24instead of a matter of safety.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26Doctors are lobbying.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28Patients have rights as well.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31Keith Davies, are you worried that this issue,
0:06:31 > 0:06:35which is very emotional for many,
0:06:35 > 0:06:39will come back to bite you in the next elections?
0:06:39 > 0:06:41I don't think so.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44I think we will have an answer in the end.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48What I think is important is treatments are changing.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52I remember when I went into Morriston Hospital,
0:06:52 > 0:06:55but I was in Llanelli Hospital first,
0:06:55 > 0:06:59and the doctor told me I'm not sure when you will go to Morriston
0:06:59 > 0:07:03because there are ten hospitals feeding Morriston
0:07:03 > 0:07:07because there is a centre of excellence there.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10What is important is we get the best service.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13If we want the best service with these treatments,
0:07:13 > 0:07:15we are going to have centres of excellence.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18That's the battle. Where will that centre be located?
0:07:18 > 0:07:20That's what's happened in South Wales.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23They are fighting against each other.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26There is an element of, you two have experience
0:07:26 > 0:07:28in the world of education.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31Closing a school or changing provision is just as difficult.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35But the tendency is, sometimes the campaigners win
0:07:35 > 0:07:37and sometimes they lose,
0:07:37 > 0:07:40but after the change is made, people tend to accept them.
0:07:40 > 0:07:42Can I give you an example.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47Tomorrow morning I will be Prince Philip Hospital in Llanelli
0:07:47 > 0:07:49to open a new ward.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52The ward's called Mynydd Mawr Ward.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55What was Mynydd Mawr? A hospital in Tumble.
0:07:55 > 0:08:00You have to ask the question, will the patient get better service
0:08:00 > 0:08:04in the ward because it is in a big hospital
0:08:04 > 0:08:07compared to the service they got in Tumble?
0:08:07 > 0:08:12I have to say I'm jealous to be part of the discussion.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16We are suffering from the problem that authorities in England
0:08:16 > 0:08:21are restructuring services as well, and deciding what services they are
0:08:21 > 0:08:23going to offer in Shrewsbury.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27If they change that to Telford it will affect services.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30We can't say anything about that.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34That situation in Mid Wales is unique. We have to move on.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38Should there be a special statement listing the rights of older people?
0:08:38 > 0:08:43The Welsh Government believe so, and a consultation is taking place.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46The aim is to give older people assurances that they are
0:08:46 > 0:08:49receiving appropriate public services.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52James Williams shared a meal with pensioners in Cricieth.
0:09:01 > 0:09:05Is there enough support from the government?
0:09:05 > 0:09:07No, definitely not.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11So you see a lot of the money moving out of the area?
0:09:11 > 0:09:14Yes, you always see it on the news, on the television.
0:09:16 > 0:09:22So you think that older people are ignored?
0:09:22 > 0:09:23Ignored by society in general?
0:09:23 > 0:09:26I think that used to be true.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29But I think the Government is trying to help
0:09:29 > 0:09:32by doing different things and giving money for it.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35What kind of life is it to be an older person in this area?
0:09:41 > 0:09:44There are plenty of things to do, but there is not a lot of support.
0:09:46 > 0:09:50- There isn't enough support.- No.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53Has that got worse recently or something you've seen for a time?
0:09:55 > 0:09:57It has happened for a while.
0:09:57 > 0:10:01We used to have a small group but we couldn't get people to attend.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04That's closed now.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07As a disabled person,
0:10:07 > 0:10:09I can't go to a lot of the things I want to go to.
0:10:11 > 0:10:12You feel a bit isolated?
0:10:16 > 0:10:19I have had years of losing my balance.
0:10:22 > 0:10:24So I can't go up steps very easily.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29Is that difficult?
0:10:29 > 0:10:32You feel you can't do what you used to be able to do?
0:10:32 > 0:10:35No, I don't socialise as much as I used to.
0:10:35 > 0:10:41A lot of elderly people don't go out enough, and I'm one of them.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44They should be more supportive.
0:10:44 > 0:10:49Are officials to blame for that.
0:10:49 > 0:10:51It is mostly our fault.
0:10:51 > 0:10:56Maybe what Mici's doing now, more people will socialise more.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58- So you need a more positive attitude?- Yes.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09We saw Mici Plwm tucking into a turkey,
0:11:09 > 0:11:12so we will go to Bangor to talk to him.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15We do have things such as the Human Rights Act.
0:11:15 > 0:11:18Why do we need something as bespoke for older people?
0:11:18 > 0:11:22In rural areas,
0:11:22 > 0:11:27although Wales was the first country
0:11:27 > 0:11:31to have an Older Person's Commissioner,
0:11:31 > 0:11:35and make sure the rights are available.
0:11:35 > 0:11:40I have been working for Age Cymru for three years now.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44I am now starting as a development officer for Age Well centres.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46Age well are the two important words there.
0:11:46 > 0:11:51I am a development officer now across Anglesey and Gwynedd.
0:11:51 > 0:11:57Establishing an Age Well centre, I heard there it was a small club...
0:11:57 > 0:12:02We have a very successful club in Nefyn
0:12:02 > 0:12:06and we use that as a template for other centres.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09We are establishing others.
0:12:09 > 0:12:11As you saw we had a Christmas lunch.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14We were celebrating that an Age Well centre will open in Cricieth
0:12:14 > 0:12:16in the new year.
0:12:16 > 0:12:18There already ones in Bala, Dolgellau.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21We are aiming for Tywyn and Blaenau Ffestiniog.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24They are mushrooming all over both counties.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27They are desperately needed. I know from experience.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30My mother and grandmother were in a care homes.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33The care today is very different.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36People call what we have in Nefyn,
0:12:36 > 0:12:40a youth club for people over the age of 50!
0:12:40 > 0:12:43I am responsible for things like creating
0:12:43 > 0:12:48a timetable of different activities that pleases everyone,
0:12:48 > 0:12:54whether it is physical exercise, T'ai chi, line dancing, art.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57If you name it, it is available there.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00Or what I say is that we in Age Cymru in Gwynedd and Anglesey
0:13:00 > 0:13:03can organise anything but we can't read minds.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05So you tell us what you want.
0:13:05 > 0:13:07I have to interrupt this advert
0:13:07 > 0:13:10for Age Cymru in North Wales for a second!
0:13:10 > 0:13:13Myfanwy, some people would say,
0:13:13 > 0:13:18if the elderly get some level of public services, we all deserve it.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22Yes and what I don't agree with is the idea
0:13:22 > 0:13:25of having special rights for older people.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28I think the best thing for them is to work in societies.
0:13:28 > 0:13:33We have examples in Powys where they can to have lunch in the schools.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36They eat with the younger people
0:13:36 > 0:13:41and the communication between them is very constructive.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45I'm not very fond of the idea of putting older people on one side
0:13:45 > 0:13:47and giving them special rights.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50Having said that, there are some very fit older people,
0:13:50 > 0:13:52who also have sharp minds,
0:13:52 > 0:13:55but there are some people in society who are more fragile
0:13:55 > 0:14:00and the legislation at the moment does not allow groups or societies
0:14:00 > 0:14:02to battle for their rights.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04The individual has to do that.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07We heard on Newyddion about cases of dementia, for example.
0:14:07 > 0:14:12If you are not able to do that, maybe you do need more support.
0:14:12 > 0:14:14Maybe you do.
0:14:14 > 0:14:20Gwenda Thomas, the deputy minister is bringing in a new bill
0:14:20 > 0:14:23on well being and social services,
0:14:23 > 0:14:27so that we can meet the demands of older people.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31That will come in the future. We have to look back before we finish.
0:14:31 > 0:14:35What kind of year was 2013 for our politicians?
0:14:35 > 0:14:38There were no big elections this year,
0:14:38 > 0:14:41for the whole of Wales that is, before people on Anglesey protest.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44But there was plenty to keep everybody busy.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46Tonight, the comedian Eilir Jones
0:14:46 > 0:14:49gives us his unique assessment of the government's year.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Here he is with his tongue in his cheek.
0:14:51 > 0:14:55# Tinsel on the tree
0:14:55 > 0:14:58# A star in the sky
0:14:58 > 0:15:01# And a small dolly sitting
0:15:01 > 0:15:05# So beautifully on the branch. #
0:15:05 > 0:15:112013. Welsh politics, the good and the bad.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13First, the bad.
0:15:13 > 0:15:15January.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21The Welsh Government announced that it would not
0:15:21 > 0:15:24take its case against Pobol y Cwm any further.
0:15:24 > 0:15:28Apparently, there was a character in Pobol y Cwm called Cadno
0:15:28 > 0:15:31and she said that the Welsh Government did not have
0:15:31 > 0:15:34enough backbone to cull badgers.
0:15:35 > 0:15:41I also heard that actors had been complaining during rehearsals.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45It came as quite a surprise to me.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47Not that they were complaining.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50Just the fact that they rehearse Pobol y Cwm!
0:15:50 > 0:15:55A week later, Carwyn Jones invited Trident to Wales.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58The opposition parties complained
0:15:58 > 0:16:01that he had not done a risk assessment.
0:16:01 > 0:16:07Do you need a risk assessment when it comes to Trident?
0:16:07 > 0:16:10It's a nuclear missile. No, that must have been a joke.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12A bit of leg pulling.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16The Welsh Government is not stupid enough
0:16:16 > 0:16:20to put Trident in South Wales, is it?
0:16:20 > 0:16:24You'll be telling me next that the Government is buying an airport!
0:16:24 > 0:16:28In February, the Welsh Government announced it would hold
0:16:28 > 0:16:30a big discussion on the Welsh language,
0:16:30 > 0:16:33which is quite strange, to be honest.
0:16:33 > 0:16:38Because in a discussion, people usually listen!
0:16:39 > 0:16:43You may think things couldn't get any worse, but they did.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45June.
0:16:47 > 0:16:52The Government was once again under pressure after its website
0:16:52 > 0:16:57offered career advice for people who wanted to work in the sex industry.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02So it didn't just want to see employment figures rise!
0:17:03 > 0:17:08Also in June, Leighton Andrews left his post.
0:17:08 > 0:17:14As Education Minister, he had been protesting against his own policies.
0:17:14 > 0:17:19You can't do that, can you? That is insane!
0:17:19 > 0:17:23It is like Herod announcing he wants to kill every child
0:17:23 > 0:17:26and then getting a job and answering the phone for ChildLine!
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Not much went wrong in July and August.
0:17:31 > 0:17:35Everybody came to their senses. No. Everybody was on holiday.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39Next, in September, there was a change in the organ donation system.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44It will come as quite a shock to those people
0:17:44 > 0:17:46who are on holiday in our country.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49Hearing somebody say, "I am going to lift people's hearts"
0:17:49 > 0:17:51will take on a much more sinister meaning.
0:17:53 > 0:17:58And finally, December. The PISA results came out.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04The children of Wales were the worst at reading,
0:18:04 > 0:18:08maths and science throughout the whole of Britain.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11Kids! What can you do with them?!
0:18:13 > 0:18:17The Government now wants to spend an extra 1.5 million on maths,
0:18:17 > 0:18:21another 1.5 million on science
0:18:21 > 0:18:25and another 1.5 million on reading.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30But is six million enough?!
0:18:32 > 0:18:36And anyway, there's no point crying over PISA.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42And now, the good things.
0:18:51 > 0:18:54You can discuss that in the studio.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58So Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to every politician in Wales.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02And thank you very much. I would not like to do your job.
0:19:02 > 0:19:08# Everybody knows. #
0:19:08 > 0:19:11The comedian Eilir Jones with a bit more of the bad
0:19:11 > 0:19:14than the good in his analysis there.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17Not as a comedian, Keith, but as a serious politician,
0:19:17 > 0:19:20defend what the Government has done during the last year.
0:19:20 > 0:19:25He talked there about the bill on organ donation and I think that is going to save lives.
0:19:25 > 0:19:29I think that is the biggest thing that has happened this year
0:19:29 > 0:19:33and I'm very proud that we have led the way.
0:19:33 > 0:19:34The highlight, Myfanwy?
0:19:34 > 0:19:38I think as a topic of discussion,
0:19:38 > 0:19:41the fact Carwyn Jones decided to buy an airport.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44That has gone down like a lead balloon in Mid Wales.
0:19:44 > 0:19:49- It is quite a popular decision in South Wales.- Exactly!
0:19:49 > 0:19:51And it has increased in value, apparently.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56- And it is attracting more passengers. - From where?
0:19:58 > 0:20:01Not many companies travel to Cardiff.
0:20:01 > 0:20:03It looks to us like a white elephant.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05But I have to say,
0:20:05 > 0:20:08I am pleased with the changes in the world of education.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12I think the new minister has a much more open attitude
0:20:12 > 0:20:15and that is what we need in order to do something about PISA.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18Mici Plwm, what gets a tick in 2013?
0:20:18 > 0:20:24It goes on year after year, the A470.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26Good grief!
0:20:26 > 0:20:29It is like a footpath compared to the M4
0:20:29 > 0:20:33and that is getting more money once again.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37I won't ask somebody who is meant to be unbiased for a highlight, Vaughan.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40But it's been a strange year because there has not been an election.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44It is unusual these days not to have an election.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47I think there has been a feeling in the Assembly
0:20:47 > 0:20:49that we are in the middle of the term.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52The work continues and legislation goes through and so on.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56But it has not been a year when there has been a lot of excitement.
0:20:56 > 0:21:00But from Carwyn Jones' point of view, when you remember that he only has 30 seats out of the 60,
0:21:00 > 0:21:04a year without excitement in the Assembly suggests
0:21:04 > 0:21:07that the Government is having quite a successful time
0:21:07 > 0:21:10and the opposition parties can not join together
0:21:10 > 0:21:13to challenge the Government.
0:21:13 > 0:21:17The budget was passed yesterday and that proves that more than anything else.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20Yes. The budget is the big thing.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24It is the big problem for a government which does not have a majority
0:21:24 > 0:21:27and Carwyn Jones has sailed through the process.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30Looking down the M4 towards Westminster,
0:21:30 > 0:21:34what have been the highlights from the Westminster Government?
0:21:34 > 0:21:37All we've been hearing is the word 'cuts' and how they are going to bite.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39Has there been a highlight?
0:21:39 > 0:21:43The highlight for me was David Cameron's selfie
0:21:43 > 0:21:45in the Mandela service.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47That will stay in the memory forever.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51And the man doing the sign language!
0:21:51 > 0:21:53Or not doing it!
0:21:53 > 0:21:57Mici Plwm, has there been a highlight down the M4 corridor?
0:21:57 > 0:22:03The person who has made the biggest fool of himself was Cameron
0:22:03 > 0:22:07when he said let's "celebrate" the First World War.
0:22:07 > 0:22:12Celebrating a huge number of losses. He got the word completely wrong.
0:22:12 > 0:22:17He said we should celebrate. Good grief!
0:22:17 > 0:22:20I can't think of words to describe it.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22Let's look forward to 2014.
0:22:22 > 0:22:27Keith, is there anything the Government has done that you would like to see more of?
0:22:27 > 0:22:30Or is there going to be a change of tack in 2014?
0:22:30 > 0:22:34Talking about the Government in Westminster,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37I was very pleased that Cameron came to Cardiff.
0:22:37 > 0:22:41Carwyn Jones asked him about the Silk Commission
0:22:41 > 0:22:43and he knew nothing about it.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46Our Welsh Secretary, I listened to him talk,
0:22:46 > 0:22:50and he doesn't want an Assembly at all.
0:22:50 > 0:22:55Are you worried that in 2014 these negative headlines
0:22:55 > 0:22:58like the PISA results and what is happening to the NHS
0:22:58 > 0:23:02and the waiting lists and how long people wait for ambulances,
0:23:02 > 0:23:06that it has set a precedent for the period to come?
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Yes, but you said at the start of the programme,
0:23:08 > 0:23:11if you look at the health service,
0:23:11 > 0:23:14over 90% of Welsh people are very happy with it.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16We have heard about bad examples this week
0:23:16 > 0:23:19and they don't happen every week.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23So by next week or the week after maybe people will
0:23:23 > 0:23:26forget about that and realise that it is a good service.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29One thing for 2014, Myfanwy?
0:23:29 > 0:23:33It will be nice to see that the debate about education
0:23:33 > 0:23:37in Wales will be wider and will look at the role of parents
0:23:37 > 0:23:41and the community, and not just blame teachers and authorities.
0:23:41 > 0:23:47Mici Plwm, one word or sentence for 2014?
0:23:47 > 0:23:53I hope more money will be spent on the Age Well Centres for older people.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57And a Vaughan, get your crystal ball out.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59The European elections and for once,
0:23:59 > 0:24:03European elections in Wales which are difficult to predict.
0:24:03 > 0:24:08- I think it is going to be very interesting.- In what way?
0:24:08 > 0:24:12Usually, you can say that Labour will win two seats,
0:24:12 > 0:24:15Plaid Cymru will win one and the Tories will win one.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17With UKIP in the mix
0:24:17 > 0:24:22and if UKIP keeps the seat it has and pushes the Tories out,
0:24:22 > 0:24:25there are all kinds of interesting possibilities
0:24:25 > 0:24:27in this year's European elections.
0:24:27 > 0:24:32We will see. Vaughan, Myfanwy, Keith and Mici Plwm, thank you very much.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35That is our final programme of the year.
0:24:35 > 0:24:41Bethan and Vaughan will be back in January.
0:24:41 > 0:24:44From all of us here on the programme tonight,
0:24:44 > 0:24:51thank you for your company and Merry Christmas to you all.