0:00:00 > 0:00:04Did the contents of the Chancellor's red box impress people?
0:00:04 > 0:00:05The economy is growing
0:00:05 > 0:00:09and unemployment is down but will your pockets get any fuller?
0:00:09 > 0:00:12We're talking about Mr Osborne's medicine tonight on Y Sgwrs.
0:00:22 > 0:00:27The Chancellor hadn't had time to cross the road for a cup of tea
0:00:27 > 0:00:30before the criticising started on the economy's direction.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35It's a Budget for those who create, do and who save.
0:00:36 > 0:00:40With the help of the British people we're turning our country around.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42We're building a resilient economy.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45This is a Budget for the makers, the doers and the savers
0:00:45 > 0:00:47and I commend it to the House.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52We heard details of the Budget on Newyddion 9,
0:00:52 > 0:00:55so we'll have responses from the Chancellor's political
0:00:55 > 0:00:57supporters and opponents now.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01Comfortably on the fence in his anorak is Vaughan Roderick.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05In Westminster is the Plaid Cymru MP, Hywel Williams.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08Joining us from our Wrexham studio is the Conservative, Aled Davies.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12Here in the studio are the Assembly Members, Keith Davies from Labour
0:01:12 > 0:01:15and the Liberal Democrat, Aled Roberts. Welcome to you all.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18You've all watched the Budget.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20Vaughan, what's here for Wales specifically?
0:01:21 > 0:01:25Well, there is some extra money for Wales.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28That comes from the Barnett Formula.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31There was a promise about the Wales bill
0:01:31 > 0:01:35and the ability to raise taxes, that will
0:01:35 > 0:01:40allow the Welsh Government to move on with improvements to the M4.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43Things that affect the rest of Britain with, for example,
0:01:43 > 0:01:46pensions, will affect people here in Wales too.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49Not every political and economic decision
0:01:49 > 0:01:53has to be seen through the Assembly mirror.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57The UK Government governs over a significant amount of Welsh
0:01:57 > 0:01:59people's lives.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03Aled Roberts, you're part of the coalition.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07What influence has the Liberal Democrats had on this Budget?
0:02:07 > 0:02:11I think we're still facing a difficult financial time
0:02:11 > 0:02:14but the threshold on income tax is something we've been fighting
0:02:14 > 0:02:17over and we're happy....
0:02:17 > 0:02:20George Osborne has taken the credit for that.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23If you look back, we promised in our manifesto that we'd create
0:02:23 > 0:02:27a threshold of £10,000 and we've beaten that.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30David Cameron at the time said it was unsustainable.
0:02:30 > 0:02:35- I think we won the battle.- Aled Davies, was it the Lib Dems' idea?
0:02:35 > 0:02:38It wasn't your idea, was it?
0:02:38 > 0:02:41Well, this is part of...
0:02:42 > 0:02:45The Conservatives want to see people paying less tax.
0:02:45 > 0:02:51This is one way of helping people who are on lower wages to
0:02:51 > 0:02:57cope with the situation they find themselves in.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02Can I say something about this threshold business.
0:03:02 > 0:03:07It is to be welcomed for people on lower wages,
0:03:07 > 0:03:10but it isn't the most effective way of helping them, is it?
0:03:10 > 0:03:13It would be much better to cut or increase
0:03:13 > 0:03:15the National Insurance allowance.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19I saw the figures, because everybody benefits from that increase,
0:03:19 > 0:03:24something like 85% of the tax cut will go into
0:03:24 > 0:03:28the pockets of those who earn more than £26,000 a year.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31It doesn't help anyone who earns less than the threshold.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34There are other more effective ways of helping people.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37There are thousands of people in Wales who don't have to pay
0:03:37 > 0:03:39income tax at all.
0:03:39 > 0:03:43Those on higher wages can also benefit
0:03:43 > 0:03:47and about a million people in Wales
0:03:47 > 0:03:50benefit from this Budget
0:03:50 > 0:03:53and I think they'll welcome it.
0:03:53 > 0:03:57Keith Davies, the economy is growing but faster than expected.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00All the predictions have been raised today.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03So you have to acknowledge that this plan is working?
0:04:04 > 0:04:07No, I don't think so at all.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10Since the coalition have been running the show in London,
0:04:10 > 0:04:14taxes have been raised 24 times.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17This is the first time they're cutting it.
0:04:17 > 0:04:22Also, families are something like £1,500 a year worse off than
0:04:22 > 0:04:24before the coalition came to power.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27What we're looking for, and it hasn't happened today,
0:04:27 > 0:04:32what we hoped would happen, that we'd receive extra money
0:04:32 > 0:04:37to create jobs, build houses and so on. That isn't there.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40Hywel Williams, what's Plaid Cymru's response to this Budget.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43We've heard you complain, not personally but as a party,
0:04:43 > 0:04:47you're obviously not happy. What would you do differently?
0:04:47 > 0:04:50You've put your finger on it, Bethan,
0:04:50 > 0:04:52when it comes to National Insurance contributions.
0:04:52 > 0:04:58Mrs Thatcher said, a rising tide lifts all ships.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00By raising the tax allowance,
0:05:00 > 0:05:03everyone will benefit, including myself in London.
0:05:03 > 0:05:08Not much of the money will go to those on genuinely low wages.
0:05:08 > 0:05:13What we have in all honesty, is at least two economies.
0:05:13 > 0:05:18London and the South-East, which does best out of this,
0:05:18 > 0:05:22and the rest of the UK, who won't get much benefit.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25That is a fair point. There are two different economies.
0:05:25 > 0:05:31London is a different world compared to parts of Wales, isn't it?
0:05:31 > 0:05:36Yes. When you take the limit up to £10,500
0:05:36 > 0:05:44and you compare that with what people are paid in Mid Wales,
0:05:44 > 0:05:52for example, an average salary in Powys is around £22,000.
0:05:52 > 0:05:57So they get half of their salaries without tax.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01So it helps people on lower incomes more than anyone else.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03But this is a Budget for the rich.
0:06:03 > 0:06:08Who has a spare £15,000 to put in an ISA in Wales?
0:06:08 > 0:06:13It is up to £15,000.
0:06:13 > 0:06:18Someone may have been left money by their parents, for example,
0:06:18 > 0:06:23and want somewhere to save money for the future.
0:06:23 > 0:06:28It is a chance for them to put the money somewhere
0:06:28 > 0:06:33where they will get a better interest rate than anywhere else.
0:06:33 > 0:06:37They are going after the core Conservative vote here, aren't they?
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Certainly, with those savings.
0:06:40 > 0:06:4520 million people in Britain have an ISA,
0:06:45 > 0:06:50but most of them haven't even gone up to the maximum annually.
0:06:50 > 0:06:55There are questions regarding some of these changes.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59Especially the question regarding annual payments.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02Labour say they want to see details.
0:07:02 > 0:07:04What strikes me about that
0:07:04 > 0:07:07is the danger that people take this pot of money
0:07:07 > 0:07:12if they realise they will need care in the long-term.
0:07:12 > 0:07:17They exhaust their income and their pension
0:07:17 > 0:07:19and therefore the state will have to pay
0:07:19 > 0:07:21to look after them in nursing homes.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23There are concerns there, aren't there?
0:07:23 > 0:07:28There will be a full review of care costs in London.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32And this is something we have been discussing this week.
0:07:32 > 0:07:34There is a problem in Wales.
0:07:34 > 0:07:36But there has been pressure.
0:07:36 > 0:07:43And the pension industry is the same as it was 100 years ago.
0:07:43 > 0:07:49When you see how people get so little money at the moment,
0:07:49 > 0:07:54you can understand why the system needs to change.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57But there are questions which have not been answered so far
0:07:57 > 0:07:59regarding the affect that will have
0:07:59 > 0:08:01on other areas of government expenditure.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04It was a Labour idea in the first place.
0:08:04 > 0:08:05Hywel Williams, do you want to come in?
0:08:05 > 0:08:11This is a good reason for people to be cautious with their finances,
0:08:11 > 0:08:13especially with people living longer.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16But there is another point.
0:08:16 > 0:08:20You are turning savings into earnings here.
0:08:20 > 0:08:26You take your money out and treat it as you would treat any other income.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29Could Aled tell me, will this be taxed?
0:08:29 > 0:08:35Will Mr Osborne get 25% of that money?
0:08:35 > 0:08:40We have two Aleds here. Which one would you like?
0:08:40 > 0:08:44- Either one.- Sorry? Let's start with the Conservative.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46- Will it be taxed?- Will it be taxed?
0:08:46 > 0:08:49I'm sorry, there is a lot of noise on the line
0:08:49 > 0:08:51and I can't hear everything.
0:08:51 > 0:08:55But if you do take a large sum of money out, it will be taxed.
0:08:55 > 0:08:59- That is... - More money for Mr Osborne.
0:08:59 > 0:09:02- Well, yes.- There you go.
0:09:02 > 0:09:06That is something which will stop people
0:09:06 > 0:09:08taking too much money out at the same time.
0:09:08 > 0:09:14If they take out a little at a time, it will help them.
0:09:14 > 0:09:15Thanks for the time being.
0:09:15 > 0:09:20We've heard a lot about VAT, GDP and inflation today.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24How will the Chancellor's decisions affect families,
0:09:24 > 0:09:29young people and small businesses across the country?
0:09:29 > 0:09:31Janet Ebenezer reports.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35This is a Budget for building a strong economy.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39That is what the Chancellor George Osborne said
0:09:39 > 0:09:42as he announced more financial support for families,
0:09:42 > 0:09:46businesses and young people looking for work.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49But let's hear the views of three people
0:09:49 > 0:09:54to see if they are happy with the 2014 Budget.
0:09:54 > 0:09:56Let's discuss it over a cuppa.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08As somebody who runs a small business and employs five people,
0:10:08 > 0:10:11there was good news for us.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21We are the kind of people the Chancellor likes to be seen helping.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24There was good news that corporation tax has come down.
0:10:24 > 0:10:29And the news that you have to earn £2,000
0:10:29 > 0:10:33before paying National Insurance.
0:10:33 > 0:10:34There is a lot of help.
0:10:34 > 0:10:39A lot of fuss has been made about the help towards childcare costs.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42That was the big announcement yesterday.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46I'm not sure how many more people this will help.
0:10:50 > 0:10:55There are some elements that we've asked for that we have been given.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05The fact that the Chancellor is carrying on investing
0:11:05 > 0:11:12in small businesses is to be welcomed.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15You can also employ new people.
0:11:15 > 0:11:18That's also very positive.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20What's important at the moment
0:11:20 > 0:11:23is that we continue on the same road we are already on.
0:11:27 > 0:11:32Although it's nice to hear that unemployment is down across the UK,
0:11:32 > 0:11:35I think there is a lot more to do.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45We need more money in pensions,
0:11:45 > 0:11:47more money in education
0:11:47 > 0:11:51and training in order to get people into work.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54I think there is a lot more to do.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57I found it difficult to see anything
0:11:57 > 0:12:02that was specifically for young people and students.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10That is how it will be for another year.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13George Osborne's fifth Budget has been announced
0:12:13 > 0:12:16and although he says things are improving for families
0:12:16 > 0:12:19and businesses, money is still tight,
0:12:19 > 0:12:22whatever shape it will be.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25It's nice to have a treat now and again.
0:12:25 > 0:12:29Sorry, Bethan and Vaughan, there was only one slice left.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34And she ate it all, as well.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37The Chancellor was hardly Father Christmas today,
0:12:37 > 0:12:39but he wasn't Scrooge either.
0:12:39 > 0:12:41Was he in the middle somewhere?
0:12:41 > 0:12:45George Osborne's Budgets are always very political.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49But the truth is, he didn't have a lot of freedom to operate in.
0:12:49 > 0:12:51When you are talking about pensions,
0:12:51 > 0:12:54you are talking about something coming down the road.
0:12:54 > 0:12:59It's not a significant thing to spend on now.
0:12:59 > 0:13:03There will be another Budget before the next general election.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07I listened carefully to Ed Miliband.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11There was not much response from him about the Budget.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14The reason for that, I think,
0:13:14 > 0:13:18is that I didn't feel there was anything in this Budget
0:13:18 > 0:13:23that would really change the minds of the voters.
0:13:23 > 0:13:25Or change the game.
0:13:25 > 0:13:27There was no game-changer at all.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30All these things pleased the Conservatives,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33and may be beneficial to them in the European elections, for example,
0:13:33 > 0:13:37but I don't think there was anything which changed the political climate.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40It's difficult for the opposition parties to respond immediately.
0:13:40 > 0:13:44It's a speech which has been prepared, like Ed Miliband's today.
0:13:44 > 0:13:46It's very difficult to respond to the Budget.
0:13:46 > 0:13:51That's true. But if there was something in that Budget
0:13:51 > 0:13:53that Ed Miliband was not expecting
0:13:53 > 0:13:56and which they thought was dangerous for Labour,
0:13:56 > 0:14:00there would have been a lot of notes being passed to Ed Miliband.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04It's obvious that didn't happen.
0:14:04 > 0:14:06What is there to help people now with living costs?
0:14:06 > 0:14:08That was the criticism by Ed Balls.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12This is all to come. What is there for today, Aled Roberts?
0:14:12 > 0:14:15We have to create a situation where the economy is growing
0:14:15 > 0:14:17and that jobs are created
0:14:17 > 0:14:21and that we are in a situation where wages can go up.
0:14:21 > 0:14:29But we need to show that the coalition policies are working.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31A cap on benefits.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34A cap on welfare.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37£191 billion savings.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40- Would you keep that, as a party?- Yes.
0:14:40 > 0:14:44The problem I think is the living costs for working people.
0:14:44 > 0:14:50But on benefits, George Osborne said, you let everything go.
0:14:50 > 0:14:57Ed Miliband says we will keep an extra sum
0:14:57 > 0:15:01and we would not do much more than that.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04But in regards to the bedroom tax?
0:15:04 > 0:15:07We would change that.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10That bedroom tax is terrible.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12Would it be difficult to stick to the cap, then?
0:15:12 > 0:15:15Yes, but you have to work on that.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17We look at the people who suffer the most.
0:15:17 > 0:15:22Those are the people who live in these houses.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26I can't remember the exact figure, but I read something recently
0:15:26 > 0:15:31about people who were living in a house with two bedrooms,
0:15:31 > 0:15:34but the woman was blind.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36And she would have to move
0:15:36 > 0:15:40and spend money on a new house.
0:15:40 > 0:15:46Aled Davies, George Osborne has made it clear today
0:15:46 > 0:15:48that there are further cuts to come.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50And we have some fragile people in our communities
0:15:50 > 0:15:53who are already suffering.
0:15:53 > 0:15:57It's very difficult for people across the country.
0:15:57 > 0:16:02Labour took 13 years to dig this hole.
0:16:02 > 0:16:06The coalition has been there for four years
0:16:06 > 0:16:09trying to get out of it.
0:16:09 > 0:16:13There are some difficult decisions still to make.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16Things like the bedroom tax
0:16:16 > 0:16:19and putting a cap on the welfare payment,
0:16:19 > 0:16:21those are the right things to do.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24Some families in Montgomeryshire
0:16:24 > 0:16:30receive around £36,000 every year in benefits.
0:16:30 > 0:16:38Somebody working would have to earn around £60,000 to get that pay.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41That's not fair.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43Some people are working hard
0:16:43 > 0:16:49and they should be rewarded for working so hard.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Hywel Williams, good news for the economy in Wales.
0:16:52 > 0:16:59Unemployment is going down quicker here than in many parts of Britain.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02Who is responsible for that? Westminster or Cardiff Bay?
0:17:02 > 0:17:07A lot of those jobs are part-time jobs with low wages.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10Let me talk about this cap first.
0:17:10 > 0:17:14Do you acknowledge that is good news on unemployment?
0:17:14 > 0:17:18Fewer people are unemployed. Of course that is good news.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21But I would want them to be paid properly for the work they do.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23Going back to what Aled said about the cap,
0:17:23 > 0:17:28there should not be a mix between this cap
0:17:28 > 0:17:31and the cap on the whole expenditure.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34Keith should not worry about housing benefit either.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38Housing benefit does not come in under this cap.
0:17:38 > 0:17:40The problem with the cap
0:17:40 > 0:17:44is that if you put a cap on benefits,
0:17:44 > 0:17:50you can add other things later on.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53If you introduce further changes,
0:17:53 > 0:18:01you could end up having a cash limit on something which could be larger.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03Who is going to suffer? I don't know.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07But I'd guess those people who claim benefits will suffer in the end.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09To bring this discussion to a close, Vaughan,
0:18:09 > 0:18:13two years ago, we were talking about a shambles. It's not quite as bad.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16But what will the newspapers make of it tomorrow?
0:18:16 > 0:18:21They will concentrate on the surprises.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24The changes to pensions and savings.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28Last time, it was a few days
0:18:28 > 0:18:33before people started noticing tax on caravans and so on.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37I think they will have been very careful this time
0:18:37 > 0:18:41- to make sure there is nothing like that in it, but who knows? - Who knows? We'll see.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44Let's talk now about a story that is developing this evening.
0:18:44 > 0:18:46Earlier on Newyddion 9,
0:18:46 > 0:18:50we discussed the fact that Ann Clwyd had called for the resignation
0:18:50 > 0:18:52of the chair and chief executive
0:18:52 > 0:18:55of Cardiff and Vale University Health Board.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58It's the latest chapter in the dispute between the First Minister
0:18:58 > 0:19:01and the Labour MP for the Cynon valley.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05Tell us the background, please, Vaughan.
0:19:05 > 0:19:10It started with the death of Ann Clwyd's husband.
0:19:10 > 0:19:14And the complaints about the care the late Owen Roberts received
0:19:14 > 0:19:16at the Heath Hospital in Cardiff.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18David Cameron asked Ann Clwyd
0:19:18 > 0:19:23to review the complaints system in the NHS in England.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27According to Ann Clwyd, a high percentage of the complaints
0:19:27 > 0:19:31she received from the public came from Wales.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35So she has been calling on the Welsh Government to take action.
0:19:35 > 0:19:40It's obvious the Welsh Government feels very frustrated about that
0:19:40 > 0:19:45because it insists Ann Clwyd has not presented any evidence
0:19:45 > 0:19:50to prove her accusations about the state of the service in Wales.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53You can sense Carwyn Jones' frustration
0:19:53 > 0:19:57after First Minister's Questions yesterday.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00- Ann Clwyd has produced no evidence and no facts.- She has!
0:20:00 > 0:20:04I have asked her, the Minister of Health has asked her.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07She's produced nothing but anonymous comments.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11We don't know where they're from, we don't know whether are correct.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13I'm afraid we've asked her on more than one occasion
0:20:13 > 0:20:16to produce the evidence to back up her claims.
0:20:16 > 0:20:18I've done it, the Minister of Health has done it.
0:20:18 > 0:20:23I've done it to her in person and in writing. She has not done it.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26She has responded angrily to that, hasn't she?
0:20:26 > 0:20:33We don't know if the timing of this is a coincidence
0:20:33 > 0:20:36as a result of Carwyn Jones' comments,
0:20:36 > 0:20:39but in a statement the press today,
0:20:39 > 0:20:42she has called for the resignation of the chief executive
0:20:42 > 0:20:46and the chair of the Cardiff and Vale University Health Board.
0:20:46 > 0:20:51Because, she says, they have breached her privacy
0:20:51 > 0:20:54by releasing part of the report
0:20:54 > 0:20:57about the circumstances of her husband's death,
0:20:57 > 0:21:01following requests made under the Freedom of Information Act.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04Keith Davies, let's concentrate on this row
0:21:04 > 0:21:07between Ann Clwyd and the First Minister.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11It's not a nice thing for your party to see this played out in public.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14No. But there are two different things.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18The information about what happened to her husband in hospital.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21I can see why she is worried about that.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25But then there's information about the evidence she has
0:21:25 > 0:21:27about what is happening in Wales and in England.
0:21:27 > 0:21:29And I think we should be given that.
0:21:29 > 0:21:33If she is ready to go to the media and give them the information,
0:21:33 > 0:21:37I think we, as an Assembly, should look at that.
0:21:37 > 0:21:42Because if things are wrong in the NHS, we should know about them.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45You say there are two aspects to this.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47The First Minister has made it personal
0:21:47 > 0:21:52by talking about her husband. Was that a mistake by him?
0:21:52 > 0:21:54It was not very clear in the Assembly yesterday.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57He was talking yesterday about getting evidence.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00Personally, I thought he wanted evidence
0:22:00 > 0:22:04about the situation in Wales and England, not evidence about her husband.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06I can see why she was worried about her husband.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08That is a personal matter.
0:22:08 > 0:22:12What right does somebody have to give evidence
0:22:12 > 0:22:16to somebody else about her husband? I don't understand it.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18What do you make of this row?
0:22:18 > 0:22:21Two things came up in the chamber yesterday.
0:22:21 > 0:22:25Only time will tell about Ann Clwyd's personal response.
0:22:25 > 0:22:31If information was released, that's a mistake by the health board.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34Is she right to call for resignations?
0:22:34 > 0:22:39We need to hear the facts about what exactly has happened.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41Questions will have to be raised about the timing.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44There was a statement by the First Minister yesterday.
0:22:44 > 0:22:49We understand that the information was released yesterday morning.
0:22:49 > 0:22:54I hope no political pressure has been placed on the health board
0:22:54 > 0:22:56to release any information,
0:22:56 > 0:22:59but there will be an investigation by the commissioner
0:22:59 > 0:23:02and we will have to wait and see.
0:23:02 > 0:23:06I think the Welsh Government has to admit that there are cases now
0:23:06 > 0:23:11which raise questions about our health service.
0:23:11 > 0:23:16But we have to be careful that we don't criticise a good service.
0:23:16 > 0:23:21Hywel Williams, your response, please.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24Because she may be raising complaints generally
0:23:24 > 0:23:28about the health system in Wales
0:23:28 > 0:23:31and many people might agree with her.
0:23:31 > 0:23:35I'm sure a lot of people do. I have talked to her about this.
0:23:35 > 0:23:40She was stunned with the number of complaints
0:23:40 > 0:23:43she received from Wales and England.
0:23:43 > 0:23:49I think she was right to publish a report on the NHS in England.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52There is confusion here, as well,
0:23:52 > 0:23:56because of this gap between Westminster and Cardiff Bay.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58Who is responsible for health?
0:23:58 > 0:24:01The Assembly should be doing that work.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04A quick word from Aled Davies in Wrexham.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06What do you make of this row?
0:24:06 > 0:24:09I don't know the latest facts,
0:24:09 > 0:24:16but Carwyn Jones' attitude towards Ann Clwyd is disgraceful.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19It's hard to believe what I heard yesterday.
0:24:19 > 0:24:25It's not only Ann Clwyd saying these things.
0:24:25 > 0:24:29The statistics and so on say the same story,
0:24:29 > 0:24:33that some hospitals in Wales aren't working well enough.
0:24:33 > 0:24:35Sorry to interrupt, but our time is up.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39Thank you for your company tonight.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43Thanks to our guests, and to you at home for your company.
0:24:43 > 0:24:45We will be back at the same time next week.
0:24:45 > 0:24:48From all of us here, good night.