0:00:00 > 0:00:01Welcome back.
0:00:01 > 0:00:05Should our broadcasters be ambassadors for the Welsh language?
0:00:05 > 0:00:09And Nick and Nige have been arguing over Europe tonight,
0:00:09 > 0:00:13but what affect do the debates between the party leaders have?
0:00:13 > 0:00:16There's plenty to discuss tonight on Y Sgwrs.
0:00:26 > 0:00:27Good evening.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30We'll be looking at the Welsh language and the media tonight.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33And after the first debate on Europe between the leader
0:00:33 > 0:00:36of the Liberal Democrats, Nick Clegg, and UKIP leader, Nigel Farage,
0:00:36 > 0:00:43our political correspondent will have his say on the outcome.
0:00:43 > 0:00:48People have a choice. Either a politician or drama.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50But first, let's welcome our guests.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Vaughan is here as usual, and he's joined
0:00:52 > 0:00:56by the Welsh Language Commissioner Meri Huws, the Tory MP Suzy Davies
0:00:56 > 0:00:59and joining us from our London studio,
0:00:59 > 0:01:02the senior TV producer and novelist Sioned Wiliam.
0:01:02 > 0:01:03Welcome to you all.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07Our broadcasters should be ambassadors for the Welsh
0:01:07 > 0:01:11language, according to one Plaid Cymru Assembly Member.
0:01:11 > 0:01:16One of the Assembly's committees will hear from broadcasting chiefs
0:01:16 > 0:01:19tomorrow on the future of the media in Wales.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21But what role does Welsh have to play?
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Janet Ebenezer has been looking at the relationship
0:01:24 > 0:01:27between the broadcasters and the language.
0:01:28 > 0:01:32Welcome to Carmarthen, and the new home of S4C.
0:01:32 > 0:01:37In three years' time, on the site of the University of Wales Trinity St David,
0:01:37 > 0:01:40this will be the channel's new headquarters.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43The broadcaster says one of the main advantages of moving is to promote
0:01:43 > 0:01:46the Welsh language locally.
0:01:46 > 0:01:51This is the new voice in the afternoon on Welsh radio, Tommo,
0:01:51 > 0:01:54and the hope is to attract new listeners to the station.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58But the use of English-language music on the programme
0:01:58 > 0:02:00has also been a topic of discussion.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03The recent series, 'Y Gwyll' and 'Hinterland'
0:02:03 > 0:02:06was a joint project between S4C and the BBC.
0:02:06 > 0:02:11The version shown on BBC 1 was notable
0:02:11 > 0:02:15for its use of Welsh and English side-by-side.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23But do the people of Carmarthen think the Welsh language
0:02:23 > 0:02:25is used effectively in he media?
0:02:25 > 0:02:31For those who want a language to survive, they will speak Welsh.
0:02:31 > 0:02:38But those who are raised these days, I think they speak English.
0:02:38 > 0:02:42Do you think more Welsh language programmes would make a difference?
0:02:42 > 0:02:45I don't think so.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48I don't think money is the answer for everything.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52It is about promoting interest.
0:02:52 > 0:02:56It's more important to spend money producing good programmes,
0:02:56 > 0:03:02rather than concentrating on programmes just through the medium of Welsh,
0:03:02 > 0:03:07because only a limited number of people in Wales speak Welsh.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10Last week, the presenter Noel Edmonds
0:03:10 > 0:03:14criticised public spending on Welsh language programmes.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18It has always been a controversial week the BBC.
0:03:18 > 0:03:24They apologised after Ofcom received over 25 complaints
0:03:24 > 0:03:25about the 'Morning Call' programme,
0:03:25 > 0:03:30which asked people whether the Welsh language irritated them.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32And in the Assembly yesterday,
0:03:32 > 0:03:35the First Minister, Carwyn Jones, criticised London papers.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39I have been troubled during the last few days
0:03:39 > 0:03:43by some of the articles written in London newspapers
0:03:43 > 0:03:47which seem to suggest that the Welsh language is Wales' problem.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50The Assembly Member for Anglesey
0:03:50 > 0:03:55has had a lot of experience in the media.
0:03:55 > 0:04:01I think our broadcasters should be ambassadors for the Welsh language.
0:04:01 > 0:04:07I am a strong believer in role models for people.
0:04:07 > 0:04:14Nothing will encourage a young boy or girl to speak Welsh more
0:04:14 > 0:04:18than seeing their heroes in sport, for example, speaking Welsh.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21In that sense, the BBC and S4C should make it clear
0:04:21 > 0:04:24that they not only produce Welsh language programmes,
0:04:24 > 0:04:27but that they want more people to watch those programmes
0:04:27 > 0:04:29as a way promoting the Welsh language.
0:04:29 > 0:04:34The BBC says it is confident that it provides comprehensive services
0:04:34 > 0:04:38which benefit the language and which give people daily access
0:04:38 > 0:04:41to entertaining and high quality content.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44And S4C also says the channel has a responsibility
0:04:44 > 0:04:48to promote Welsh in every part of the country.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52We have do produce programmes that people want to watch,
0:04:52 > 0:04:56but the language has got to be appropriate for the target audience.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58We are like every other nation.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01We have different communities with different interests.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04We get our information from different places.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07Some people enjoy news, others enjoy entertainment.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11It's very important that the style of programming
0:05:11 > 0:05:14is suitable for the audience the programme is targeting.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17But I suppose the big question is,
0:05:17 > 0:05:21do broadcasters have a duty to protect the Welsh language?
0:05:21 > 0:05:23That might be a fair question
0:05:23 > 0:05:26for our panellists in the studio tonight.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32Janet Ebenezer enjoying a piece of cake.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36Meri Huws, what about that point by Rhun ap Iorwerth?
0:05:36 > 0:05:41Should broadcasters be ambassadors for the Welsh language?
0:05:41 > 0:05:45I think what Rhun said reflects something
0:05:45 > 0:05:48that has been true since 1982.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51The broadcasters involved with S4C have been ambassadors
0:05:51 > 0:05:55for the Welsh language, whether they are aware of that or not.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58They have secured a status for the Welsh language
0:05:58 > 0:06:01and it has become more popular.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03I was chair of the Welsh Language Society in 1982
0:06:03 > 0:06:05when the channel was established
0:06:05 > 0:06:08and I remember Owen Edwards saying it was an historic day.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11Maybe we didn't realise how historic at the time.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14So they have been ambassadors.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17Do they have a moral responsibility to be ambassadors?
0:06:17 > 0:06:22I am not sure I would go that far. But they have been.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26Do you think they have a moral responsibility? You're not going that far.
0:06:26 > 0:06:31But should BBC Wales and S4C have a moral responsibility?
0:06:31 > 0:06:35I would say it's S4C and the BBC's responsibility to produce programmes
0:06:35 > 0:06:38which are interesting, that attract audiences
0:06:38 > 0:06:42and create debate in Wales in our own language.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46- Are they succeeding? - They have, over the years.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49It is a challenge, as they have acknowledged themselves.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51The broadcasting world has changed so much.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55There are so many forms of media and there is so much competition these days.
0:06:55 > 0:07:00If we go back to 1982, I remember that period as well,
0:07:00 > 0:07:05and there were people who said the Welsh language would lose out.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08There will be better provision for Welsh speaking people,
0:07:08 > 0:07:12but English-speaking viewers will see less Welsh being spoken.
0:07:12 > 0:07:16What I find interesting is that we have started to see
0:07:16 > 0:07:20the two languages mixing more on the main channels.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23- I was watching 'Hill Farm' recently on BBC Wales.- 'Hinterland' as well.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25'Y Gwyll', 'Hinterland' as well.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28I think we need to make sure that the Welsh language
0:07:28 > 0:07:34can be heard on channels which are primarily English-language channels.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37Otherwise, there is a danger that people will think,
0:07:37 > 0:07:42like that woman in Carmarthen, almost nobody speaks Welsh, despite the fact she lives in Carmarthen.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45Sioned, as a television producer, how does the idea
0:07:45 > 0:07:48of moral responsibility for the language sit with you?
0:07:48 > 0:07:50I agree completely with it.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53It is language and culture which allows us
0:07:53 > 0:07:56to develop a meaningful relationship with the world around us.
0:07:56 > 0:08:01Television is a big part of creating a context for a language.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05A national channel does have a responsibility to be
0:08:05 > 0:08:09part of that debate and that process of creating awareness.
0:08:09 > 0:08:13Every channel in the world does it for its own nation.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15S4C should do it for Wales.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18But you still need a variety.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21We need entertainment programmes and highbrow programmes,
0:08:21 > 0:08:26but there's no reason why the channel can't achieve those things.
0:08:26 > 0:08:30It does achieve it on a very small budget, to be honest.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34Suzy Davies, this idea of the nature of the language,
0:08:34 > 0:08:38in order to attract viewers, do we need to simplify the language?
0:08:38 > 0:08:43Or is there a danger of oversimplifying things?
0:08:43 > 0:08:46It's possible to oversimplify,
0:08:46 > 0:08:49but with every channel, if you look at the English channels
0:08:49 > 0:08:53for example, you are going to hear various dialects
0:08:53 > 0:08:56and different standards of the English language.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59If you watch Newsnight, the standard will be very high,
0:08:59 > 0:09:04but in soap operas, people will speak like they do every day.
0:09:04 > 0:09:08I'm not too worried about that myself.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11As someone who has learned Welsh,
0:09:11 > 0:09:17it is important to hear Welsh spoken naturally on S4C
0:09:17 > 0:09:22and I agree with the point on the English-language channels.
0:09:22 > 0:09:26Meri Huws, Tommo is an example of the vibrant language.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29Do you enjoy Tommo on Radio Cymru?
0:09:29 > 0:09:34- I don't get to listen to the radio at work.- You are the boss!
0:09:34 > 0:09:39But I know that people in Carmarthenshire
0:09:39 > 0:09:42are very happy that he's on Radio Cymru.
0:09:42 > 0:09:48- Do you support...- It's important that we hear different accents.
0:09:48 > 0:09:52As Vaughan said, we also need to hear it on the other channels.
0:09:52 > 0:09:58The challenge now is to hear Welsh as part of that service.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02That is happening and it is part of the BBC's strategy.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04It is happening.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06The Tommo question is interesting.
0:10:06 > 0:10:10I have roots in the Cwmgors and Amman Valley area
0:10:10 > 0:10:14and there has been an inferiority issue in that part of Wales
0:10:14 > 0:10:16with regard to their Welsh.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19If you try to produce a film in Ammanford,
0:10:19 > 0:10:22you always get people who say, "My Welsh isn't good enough."
0:10:22 > 0:10:24You don't get that in Blaenau Ffestiniog,
0:10:24 > 0:10:27Caernarfon or Ceredigion.
0:10:27 > 0:10:32Hearing that everyday Welsh on the television and radio
0:10:32 > 0:10:34is very important.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38- Sioned Wiliam?- With the idea of hearing Welsh on other channels,
0:10:38 > 0:10:42Andrew Collins wrote in The Guardian recently
0:10:42 > 0:10:45that the flow of the language is what charmed him
0:10:45 > 0:10:49and he didn't want a language which was a compromise.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52It doesn't have to be watered down to go on other channels.
0:10:52 > 0:10:56We need to have confidence and the more Welsh our programmes are,
0:10:56 > 0:11:00like the programmes we see from Norway and Scandinavia and so on,
0:11:00 > 0:11:04I think that's another way of creating that awareness
0:11:04 > 0:11:07over Offa's Dyke, if you like.
0:11:07 > 0:11:11You've worked with some stars - Jonathan Ross and Harry Hill,
0:11:11 > 0:11:15- I don't know whether you have worked with Noel Edmonds.- No.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19What do you make of his attitude?
0:11:19 > 0:11:21There's no substance to his argument.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24I don't know what planet Noel lives on,
0:11:24 > 0:11:28but he doesn't live on the same planet as me.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31I don't think you should even consider that argument.
0:11:31 > 0:11:34People have been laughing at him in England
0:11:34 > 0:11:37for his wider plans for the BBC in general.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41I don't think we should worry about what Noel says.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45But there's a lot of this in the right-wing papers,
0:11:45 > 0:11:48in The Sun, The Mail, at the moment.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50The articles have been bashing the language.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53It's like going back to the '70s, to be honest.
0:11:53 > 0:11:58There are negative attitudes, but if we have the confidence
0:11:58 > 0:12:02in our own culture and language, that is the best way to hit back.
0:12:02 > 0:12:04We shouldn't compromise.
0:12:04 > 0:12:09By being Welsh, we can make a contribution to the world.
0:12:09 > 0:12:14By being positive in your identity, you can have this relationship,
0:12:14 > 0:12:17you can tell a story in a complex way
0:12:17 > 0:12:20which speaks to a broader spectrum of people.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22Suzy Davies on the papers.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25I think that's just ignorance
0:12:25 > 0:12:30because a lot of people who work for the London papers,
0:12:30 > 0:12:34they probably haven't looked at Wales for many years.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37How do they know how things have changed?
0:12:37 > 0:12:41The reason they are looking at the Welsh language
0:12:41 > 0:12:44is because of the dispute over the health service in Wales.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48David Cameron has been raising that in the House of Commons.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52There have been some strong messages going from the Welsh Conservatives
0:12:52 > 0:12:53to the Tories in Westminster
0:12:53 > 0:12:57saying it's fine to attack Carwyn Jones' record
0:12:57 > 0:13:01but to be careful because there's a danger he could turn people
0:13:01 > 0:13:04against the Welsh Conservatives if it looks as if he's attacking Wales
0:13:04 > 0:13:07rather than Carwyn Jones' government.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11We're not responsible for what The Daily Mail say.
0:13:11 > 0:13:15But it's a weekly target at PMQs.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18Meri Huws, Carwyn Jones responded yesterday
0:13:18 > 0:13:21and said he has been angered by these articles.
0:13:21 > 0:13:26Shouldn't you be doing more and standing up for the language?
0:13:26 > 0:13:29I think Sioned touched on something very important.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31That's not the battle.
0:13:31 > 0:13:35Those stories are based on ignorance
0:13:35 > 0:13:38and things which existed during the '70s.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42We need to be confident in Wales and step forward into the future,
0:13:42 > 0:13:45rather than seeing problems everywhere.
0:13:45 > 0:13:49That's pure ignorance. We shouldn't give it any status.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52You would give the likes of Jeremy Clarkson a lot of joy
0:13:52 > 0:13:53by overreacting.
0:13:53 > 0:13:58He loves the idea that Welsh people get angry. Ignore these people.
0:13:58 > 0:14:02They're idiots, on the whole, and not just about Wales.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05What about broadcasting in Wales?
0:14:05 > 0:14:08At the moment, it hasn't been devolved yet.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10Should it be?
0:14:11 > 0:14:13That's a difficult question.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17I think we should have control over broadcasting in Wales,
0:14:17 > 0:14:21but there is a direct question over funding.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25Would it receive less money if it was devolved?
0:14:25 > 0:14:29There's a danger of that because there are restrictions in Wales.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32So it's handy that we get more money from London?
0:14:32 > 0:14:38I think we need to safeguard a channel which reflects our needs
0:14:38 > 0:14:42so we have got to have financial stability.
0:14:42 > 0:14:46I think we could control the services from here
0:14:46 > 0:14:50but there are fundamental questions over the budget.
0:14:50 > 0:14:52So the status quo?
0:14:52 > 0:14:57We need answers regarding budgets before making a decision.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59Is it on the agenda, Vaughan?
0:14:59 > 0:15:05Well, the reason people opposed the devolution of S4C
0:15:05 > 0:15:09was because S4C bosses thought their budget was protected
0:15:09 > 0:15:13due to the Parliamentary measure which established the channel.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18When this government was elected, almost overnight,
0:15:18 > 0:15:22that legislation was changed and S4C lost a lot of money.
0:15:22 > 0:15:28I don't think that funding argument is as strong as it used to be
0:15:28 > 0:15:31when the Assembly was established back in 1999.
0:15:31 > 0:15:36Thank you. So, who won? Nick or Nige?
0:15:36 > 0:15:39The leaders of UKIP and the Lib Dems have taken part
0:15:39 > 0:15:42in the first of their debates before the European election.
0:15:42 > 0:15:46Before we discuss whether Nige agreed with Nick
0:15:46 > 0:15:50and to what degree these debates can influence elections,
0:15:50 > 0:15:52a quick visit to the boxing ring.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03During the 1960s, in the United States,
0:16:03 > 0:16:07Nixon on one side, Kennedy on the other side.
0:16:07 > 0:16:09Who won?
0:16:09 > 0:16:11Kennedy was the President,
0:16:11 > 0:16:15but in the debate on the radio, it was Nixon.
0:16:15 > 0:16:18On television, it was Kennedy.
0:16:20 > 0:16:23But what about Britain?
0:16:23 > 0:16:29Well, Harold Wilson challenged Sir Alex Douglas Hume in 1964.
0:16:30 > 0:16:32He asked for a debate.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36But Sir Alex refused because he didn't want to take part
0:16:36 > 0:16:40in a programme he said was like Top Of The Pops.
0:16:40 > 0:16:44People can choose between politics and drama.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51And so it was until the last General Election.
0:16:51 > 0:16:58Debates between Brown, Cameron and Clegg were broadcast on television.
0:16:58 > 0:17:03And what happened? Well, the young man Clegg came out on top.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06Will there be another debate?
0:17:06 > 0:17:08That is the question.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12We'll come to that question in a moment.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16I watched it tonight and they didn't sweat like Nixon, Vaughan.
0:17:16 > 0:17:17Did either man win?
0:17:17 > 0:17:21Well, the way I saw it,
0:17:21 > 0:17:25I felt that if you agree with Nick Clegg, you thought he won,
0:17:25 > 0:17:30and if you agree with Nigel Farage, you would think he won.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33Neither of them made any significant mistakes
0:17:33 > 0:17:37or introduced any new viewpoints.
0:17:37 > 0:17:41What's important is that they both won, in one sense,
0:17:41 > 0:17:44because Farage has been promoted to stand alongside
0:17:44 > 0:17:49the Deputy Prime Minister, and he has been forced
0:17:49 > 0:17:55into a debate where the Lib Dems have looked pretty ineffective.
0:17:55 > 0:17:59Suzy, why is David Cameron afraid of debate with Alex Salmond
0:17:59 > 0:18:02on independence for Scotland?
0:18:02 > 0:18:05I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
0:18:05 > 0:18:10Tonight, we saw one person who wants to stay in Europe
0:18:10 > 0:18:12and another who wants to leave.
0:18:12 > 0:18:17I don't think the Prime Minister needs to get involved.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20I was asking about Alex Salmond and Scotland.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22I was coming to that.
0:18:22 > 0:18:24Oh, sorry. Yes.
0:18:24 > 0:18:27I don't see the point in having
0:18:27 > 0:18:31this political beauty contest, in a sense.
0:18:31 > 0:18:35I don't know whether now is the time for that debate.
0:18:35 > 0:18:41Something else could happen before the summer, who knows?
0:18:41 > 0:18:44When we are discussing Europe,
0:18:44 > 0:18:48there's no point having a debate on something completely different.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52But the future of Scotland is very important to the future of the UK.
0:18:52 > 0:18:56Why won't David Cameron debate with Alex Salmond?
0:18:56 > 0:19:00I don't see the point.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03They have both made their points
0:19:03 > 0:19:06in the press and the media already.
0:19:06 > 0:19:13I'm not sure whether a debate would benefit anyone.
0:19:13 > 0:19:19I don't like what happened tonight so I won't push David Cameron.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22- Meri Huws?- I disagree.
0:19:22 > 0:19:23That's fine.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27I think David Cameron has expressed his opinion in the press,
0:19:27 > 0:19:32and I think he should appear on television to defend that view.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35He's said the people of Scotland should vote No
0:19:35 > 0:19:38so he should be open to this kind of discussion.
0:19:38 > 0:19:43I think these debates are acceptable for politicians.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46In the old days, we relied on the newspapers to tell us
0:19:46 > 0:19:48what politician said.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52These days, why shouldn't they appear in the media?
0:19:52 > 0:19:56With the point about Scottish independence,
0:19:56 > 0:20:01it leaves the other three nations
0:20:01 > 0:20:03behind.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06If we're talking about some skit like this,
0:20:06 > 0:20:10- Carwyn Jones could also take part. - Yeah.
0:20:10 > 0:20:14- Does it make good television, Sioned?- It's very superficial.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17Clegg did well four years ago
0:20:17 > 0:20:20and now we have a government we didn't vote for
0:20:20 > 0:20:23destroying the welfare state at the moment.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27I don't think what happened in that election,
0:20:27 > 0:20:32with those television debates, was a good thing at all.
0:20:32 > 0:20:37It gave us a misleading impression of the people we were voting for.
0:20:37 > 0:20:42I don't think it can be a debate with any depth.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45I don't want a television presenter as a politician,
0:20:45 > 0:20:49I want someone with principles who believes in what they say.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52It's an important question.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55Did those debates during the last General Election
0:20:55 > 0:20:58have any influence at all?
0:20:58 > 0:21:02On the night of the election, we had the exit poll,
0:21:02 > 0:21:05which said the Lib Dems were not going to win
0:21:05 > 0:21:07a single additional seat.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10We all thought it was wrong but it was spot-on.
0:21:10 > 0:21:14The debate caused a bounce during the campaign...
0:21:14 > 0:21:17But Clegg-mania didn't last.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21He turned his back on all his policies, how could it last?
0:21:21 > 0:21:24It was a gimmick - looking to the camera.
0:21:24 > 0:21:25He didn't do that tonight.
0:21:25 > 0:21:30Something as superficial as looking into the camera made a difference.
0:21:30 > 0:21:34I'm not enough of a fool to think it's not scripted
0:21:34 > 0:21:38but I think politicians have a responsibility
0:21:38 > 0:21:40to interact with the public.
0:21:40 > 0:21:45How else are future politicians going to get their messages across?
0:21:45 > 0:21:48People don't read newspapers in the way they used to.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50The old rallies don't happen in the same way.
0:21:50 > 0:21:53What do we rely on?
0:21:53 > 0:21:58Social networking sites, is that the future? Blogging, Twitter?
0:21:58 > 0:22:01I think blogging has had its day already!
0:22:01 > 0:22:03You know...
0:22:03 > 0:22:07We are a long way behind in Britain compared to America.
0:22:07 > 0:22:11If you look at some of the campaigning groups in America,
0:22:11 > 0:22:14they attract millions of people.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19Those websites have become much more important than some news services.
0:22:19 > 0:22:24- Sioned?- I agree that the blogging and Twitter culture is very strong
0:22:24 > 0:22:30in the United States, but it also comes down to money in the States.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34You can spend millions of pounds
0:22:34 > 0:22:38and the person who can pay the most
0:22:38 > 0:22:41can often dominate the campaigns in the US.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44I think there's a big danger in that.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48Suzy, do you think David Cameron will take part in a debate
0:22:48 > 0:22:52before the next General Election?
0:22:52 > 0:22:54I don't know.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57- Would you like him too? - Personally, no.
0:22:57 > 0:23:03I don't know whether he will have another debate like last time
0:23:03 > 0:23:07because I think it did have an effect on the results.
0:23:07 > 0:23:11And, historically, we have to talk about Nixon.
0:23:11 > 0:23:15Was it George Bush who looked at his watch?
0:23:15 > 0:23:19There are some memorable lines. "Where's the beef?"
0:23:19 > 0:23:21That was Reagan and Mondale.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24- And the fantastic... - "Here he goes again."
0:23:24 > 0:23:28The fantastic one in the last election,
0:23:28 > 0:23:34"Whoops!", by one of the Republican candidates going for a nomination.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36He couldn't remember
0:23:36 > 0:23:39which government departments he planning to close down.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42That basically destroyed his election campaign.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44What's interesting is,
0:23:44 > 0:23:47I think a debate can destroy a campaign
0:23:47 > 0:23:52but I don't think it can transform it for the better.
0:23:52 > 0:23:56A debate is a place to avoid making mistakes.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59If there was a debate in Wales before the Assembly election,
0:23:59 > 0:24:02who would you expect to perform?
0:24:02 > 0:24:05Kirsty? Andrew RT...? Who is the performer?
0:24:05 > 0:24:08That's a big question!
0:24:08 > 0:24:12You can see who the best performers are by watching
0:24:12 > 0:24:15First Minister's Questions every Tuesday.
0:24:15 > 0:24:21All four leaders have strengths and weaknesses.
0:24:21 > 0:24:26That was diplomatic. Very professional!
0:24:26 > 0:24:28Thank you for your company.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30The time has flown by.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34That's it for tonight.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37Thank you to our guests and to you for watching.
0:24:37 > 0:24:41Vaughan and I will be back at the same time next week.
0:24:41 > 0:24:45Don't forget about Newyddion Naw tomorrow night
0:24:45 > 0:24:47and the bulletins throughout the day.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50For now, good night.