0:00:01 > 0:00:03Welcome back. How many powers should be devolved to Wales?
0:00:03 > 0:00:06Should the standard of the Welsh language be raised on Radio Cymru?
0:00:06 > 0:00:08And what's the value of the royal family?
0:00:08 > 0:00:12Plenty to discuss over the next half an hour on Y Sgwrs.
0:00:22 > 0:00:25Hello and welcome. Here with me to discuss the issues as usual
0:00:25 > 0:00:28is our Welsh Affairs Editor, Vaughan Roderick.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31Joining us in the studio is the broadcaster, Tweli Griffiths,
0:00:31 > 0:00:35and former Plaid Cymru Assembly Member, Nerys Evans.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38Over in London is the Conservative MP, Guto Bebb.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40A very warm welcome to you all.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43In the next half an hour, we'll be talking about
0:00:43 > 0:00:46the standard of the Welsh language on Radio Cymru.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49Does the national station need to be marked with a red pen?
0:00:49 > 0:00:53During the past week, the Queen has visited Wales.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57How relevant is the royal family these days?
0:00:57 > 0:01:01They have done a lot to draw attention to this area.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03I'm sure they've attracted people to the area.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07All that to come. But first, politicians in the House of Commons
0:01:07 > 0:01:09have been debating new powers for the Welsh Government today.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13The Wales Bill is on its journey through Parliament
0:01:13 > 0:01:16and if it's passed, it will give Wales powers to borrow money
0:01:16 > 0:01:18and change some taxes.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21Lleu Williams from the Wales Governance Centre
0:01:21 > 0:01:23has been following its journey so far.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36The main things that are currently being discussed
0:01:36 > 0:01:41are devolving tax powers to Wales and the Assembly,
0:01:41 > 0:01:46devolving other powers, including stamp duty,
0:01:46 > 0:01:49and there are also points in the bill regarding borrowing powers
0:01:49 > 0:01:52to the Assembly and the Welsh Government,
0:01:52 > 0:01:55which means the government will be able to borrow money
0:01:55 > 0:01:57in order to pay for large projects,
0:01:57 > 0:02:02including the extension of the M4 motorway around Newport.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08The most controversial things in the Wales Bill,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11are, firstly, what are being called the locked steps,
0:02:11 > 0:02:14which means the Welsh government can only change
0:02:14 > 0:02:17the tax rates up or down in each band.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19Many people have questioned
0:02:19 > 0:02:21the value of those powers to the government.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25The second point is a referendum on tax-raising powers.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28But some are questioning, firstly,
0:02:28 > 0:02:30whether the referendum should be held,
0:02:30 > 0:02:35secondly, whether people will vote for any tax powers, anyway,
0:02:35 > 0:02:38and thirdly, whether the responsibility should be optional.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40I would argue that it should not be.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47Changing laws in Wales has happened at a quicker rate
0:02:47 > 0:02:49than in any other part of the UK.
0:02:49 > 0:02:51I can't see that changing in the next few years.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57We will discuss those points in a moment, Vaughan,
0:02:57 > 0:03:02but the focus today has been on the way in which candidates are chosen.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06It looks like we are going to return to the system
0:03:06 > 0:03:08where candidates are allowed to stand
0:03:08 > 0:03:10on both the regional list and elections.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12Yes. And of course, if that system was in place,
0:03:12 > 0:03:16it is possible that Nerys Evans would still be an Assembly member.
0:03:16 > 0:03:20The same could be said for Glyn Davies,
0:03:20 > 0:03:22Nick Bourne, Jonathan Morgan.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26The opposition parties have realised they have lost a lot of talent
0:03:26 > 0:03:30in the Assembly because of this.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32It is not the same in Scotland,
0:03:32 > 0:03:35although Labour have paid the price
0:03:35 > 0:03:39for changing rules within the party.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42It resulted in Scotland losing
0:03:42 > 0:03:46a lot of experienced politicians last time,
0:03:46 > 0:03:49who are now working for people who were their researchers,
0:03:49 > 0:03:51and were standing on the regional list.
0:03:51 > 0:03:56There is a consensus on this between the Assembly opposition parties,
0:03:56 > 0:04:00Plaid Cymru, the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives,
0:04:00 > 0:04:03but I doubt whether Labour can change things back.
0:04:03 > 0:04:08Labour are very tribal in this voting system.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11The members of Parliament in particular hate the idea
0:04:11 > 0:04:15of this double opportunity to win a seat in the Assembly.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19Many people say that the system is undemocratic.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23You have somebody who loses a vote, an election,
0:04:23 > 0:04:27but manages to win by going in through the back door.
0:04:27 > 0:04:32That is technically possible.
0:04:32 > 0:04:37But personally, I would prefer to lose that element of democracy
0:04:37 > 0:04:41in order to make sure that list of talent Vaughan just mentioned
0:04:41 > 0:04:46can be voted into the body that represents us.
0:04:46 > 0:04:52They were talented and I feel they are sorely missed.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54Guto Bebb, one of the arguments put forward today
0:04:54 > 0:04:57by the Welsh Secretary, David Jones,
0:04:57 > 0:05:02was that the smaller parties had less talent than the main parties.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04Do you think it is an acknowledgement
0:05:04 > 0:05:07that the Conservatives find it difficult to attract candidates?
0:05:09 > 0:05:11I don't think so. I think it's a reflection
0:05:11 > 0:05:14of the changes made by Labour in 2006.
0:05:14 > 0:05:19I think it's done to damage all parties in Wales.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23I think that despite Labour's claims,
0:05:23 > 0:05:25that it was unacceptable to return
0:05:25 > 0:05:31to the system initially introduced by Labour for the Assembly.
0:05:31 > 0:05:33The system in place in the Labour Party at the moment,
0:05:33 > 0:05:37the one that Labour wants, is only in operation in the Ukraine.
0:05:37 > 0:05:42Therefore, I think Labour's claims about this are totally unfair.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46It's a change that is being welcomed by every party in Wales,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48with the exception of Labour.
0:05:48 > 0:05:49I think if you oppose the system,
0:05:49 > 0:05:52that's fair enough, I understand your point,
0:05:52 > 0:05:55but if you choose to use the system, it is important
0:05:55 > 0:05:59that you have the best people possible voted into the Assembly.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02Another element in this, Nerys,
0:06:02 > 0:06:05is the possibility of having more Assembly members.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07You're a former member yourself.
0:06:07 > 0:06:12We frequently hear, although it's not a popular message on the street,
0:06:12 > 0:06:15that the present members have an extremely heavy workload
0:06:15 > 0:06:19and therefore we need more than 60 members. Is that true?
0:06:19 > 0:06:21Yes, definitely. When I was in the Assembly,
0:06:21 > 0:06:25sometimes members were part of several committees
0:06:25 > 0:06:30which met at the same time and had to move from one room to another.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33It's not popular to say that we need more politicians,
0:06:33 > 0:06:37but the truth of the matter is that we need to invest
0:06:37 > 0:06:39in having the best democracy for Wales.
0:06:39 > 0:06:41With more powers being devolved to Wales,
0:06:41 > 0:06:44taxes, more powers being devolved,
0:06:44 > 0:06:48it is important that we have a critical mass of people
0:06:48 > 0:06:51scrutinising the government and making sure
0:06:51 > 0:06:54that our government is the best we can possibly have.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59In regards to other things in this bill, Guto Bebb,
0:06:59 > 0:07:02the one that has created the most discussion
0:07:02 > 0:07:04are these tax-raising powers.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06We have heard from experts,
0:07:06 > 0:07:09who have looked into matters regarding devolution,
0:07:09 > 0:07:12several people within universities in Wales,
0:07:12 > 0:07:15who say that the system being recommended,
0:07:15 > 0:07:18that the Welsh government could only change the rate of income tax
0:07:18 > 0:07:21if they adapt every rate,
0:07:21 > 0:07:23and that would be completely pointless.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26What is the point of this?
0:07:26 > 0:07:30I think sometimes the experts do not understand politics at all.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32It's very easy to sit in ivory towers
0:07:32 > 0:07:34and talk about what should happen in an ideal world,
0:07:34 > 0:07:37but they need to work within the political circumstances.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40The truth of the matter is that the step of acknowledging
0:07:40 > 0:07:43the need to devolve income tax is an important one.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46It is an important message to the people in Wales.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50But the principle is one thing, the way it works is another.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53The principle in this case is more important than anything else.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56The principle of devolving the responsibility for income tax,
0:07:56 > 0:07:59in my opinion, is more important than any views against this policy,
0:07:59 > 0:08:01which are being raised by someone
0:08:01 > 0:08:04in an ivory tower in a Cardiff university.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07This principle is both important and key.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10I think it is very interesting that the coalition
0:08:10 > 0:08:13are making sure that this is happening.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17Yes, but reading between the lines,
0:08:17 > 0:08:20is it not true that we have these limited powers
0:08:20 > 0:08:24because they exist in Scotland only?
0:08:24 > 0:08:30The truth is that would disappear in a short space of time regardless.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33Certainly. I don't think anyone will be surprised
0:08:33 > 0:08:40that Danny Alexander has been part of this process in Wales.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43Who can say what will happen after September?
0:08:43 > 0:08:47Can I ask you more question on this matter before we move on?
0:08:47 > 0:08:50Nerys Evans, do you think that Wales
0:08:50 > 0:08:54is having what Scotland has had and nothing else,
0:08:54 > 0:08:56like the poor child in a family
0:08:56 > 0:09:02who receives the first-born child's leftover clothes,
0:09:02 > 0:09:06regardless of whether the colours or style suit them?
0:09:06 > 0:09:10I would argue that we are not even getting what Scotland has.
0:09:10 > 0:09:14Discussions regarding measures for Wales is an important step forward,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17but if we look at the mature discussions taking place in Scotland
0:09:17 > 0:09:20regarding what should be devolved and the future of that country,
0:09:20 > 0:09:23it breaks my heart when you compare it
0:09:23 > 0:09:28with the discussions we had in Wales.
0:09:28 > 0:09:32Unfortunately, they are two completely separate debates.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35OK. Let's move on to another topic.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37The group Dyfodol i'r Iaith
0:09:37 > 0:09:40has set Radio Cymru a May Day challenge.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43According to the organisation, the standard of the service
0:09:43 > 0:09:46has deteriorated since new presenters took over.
0:09:46 > 0:09:50But they haven't gone so far as to name an individual presenter.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52While referring to poor language
0:09:52 > 0:09:54and English songs on the station,
0:09:54 > 0:09:58they say the situation needs to be reviewed immediately.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02According to the BBC, programmes on Radio Cymru
0:10:02 > 0:10:04should be available to every listener,
0:10:04 > 0:10:08whether they're fluent or not.
0:10:08 > 0:10:13And there are elements within the new timetable which safeguard both.
0:10:13 > 0:10:17They also insist Welsh music hasn't been cut
0:10:17 > 0:10:20as a result of the new schedules.
0:10:20 > 0:10:24Who is right? Is it Betsan Powys, as the head of the station,
0:10:24 > 0:10:26or Dyfodol i'r Iaith?
0:10:26 > 0:10:31The starting point here and the principle is
0:10:31 > 0:10:33that if you're listening to a service
0:10:33 > 0:10:36that is supposed to be Welsh, you expect to hear Welsh.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39But what standard of Welsh? That is the question.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42It does not mean that you should not have any English at all.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46I remember enjoying a programme on Radio Cymru a long time ago
0:10:46 > 0:10:49that offered the history and music
0:10:49 > 0:10:51of the most popular bands in the world.
0:10:51 > 0:10:52The commentary was in Welsh,
0:10:52 > 0:10:55but the programme was mainly in English as a result of the songs.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59I never thought I was listening to an English programme.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01I saw it as a Welsh programme.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04I had an opportunity to enjoy a different culture
0:11:04 > 0:11:07through my own language.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10I think it is very important for us as Welsh-speaking people
0:11:10 > 0:11:14not to lose the confidence of being able to do that.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17Do you think English slang
0:11:17 > 0:11:21has made its way into everyday language on Radio Cymru?
0:11:21 > 0:11:25And if so, does that concern you?
0:11:25 > 0:11:28We only have one Welsh language radio station
0:11:28 > 0:11:30and one Welsh language television channel.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33They need to cover everything for everyone.
0:11:33 > 0:11:36And therefore, we need a variety of standards.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39We do not expect everybody on Radio 4
0:11:39 > 0:11:42to sound like Stephen Fry, for example.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45But there's a difference between that and being correct.
0:11:45 > 0:11:50Do you think people are crossing over that line?
0:11:50 > 0:11:53That's what Dyfodol i'r Iaith are suggesting.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56I would argue that we need to concentrate on increasing
0:11:56 > 0:11:59the number of Welsh speakers and those that use Welsh,
0:11:59 > 0:12:04rather than focus on debates which could dent learners' confidence
0:12:04 > 0:12:07and therefore prevent them from listening to Radio Cymru
0:12:07 > 0:12:09and watching S4C.
0:12:09 > 0:12:13From my experience as a reporter,
0:12:13 > 0:12:15and I'm sure Tweli would say the same,
0:12:15 > 0:12:18we have a problem particularly in south Wales,
0:12:18 > 0:12:20especially in east Carmarthenshire,
0:12:20 > 0:12:22where you talk to people and the response you get is,
0:12:22 > 0:12:24"My Welsh is not good enough."
0:12:24 > 0:12:27I think there's a danger that Dyfodol i'r Iaith
0:12:27 > 0:12:29is sending out a message saying,
0:12:29 > 0:12:32your type of Welsh is not good enough.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36You're talking about Welsh in the Amman Valley, the Swansea Valley
0:12:36 > 0:12:41and so on, where that concern has been in place for decades.
0:12:41 > 0:12:42Guto Bebb, there's been a decline
0:12:42 > 0:12:45in the number of listeners to Radio Cymru.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48There was a national debate on it over the summer.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52Do you think the station has hit the right balance?
0:12:53 > 0:12:56I have no idea. The problem for me
0:12:56 > 0:12:59is that the big changes happened between Monday and Thursday
0:12:59 > 0:13:04and I am never around on those days to listen to Radio Cymru.
0:13:04 > 0:13:09I'm very happy with the service on Friday and Saturday.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13The work they do with sport on Saturday afternoon is fantastic.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17Personally, I would not be too concerned
0:13:17 > 0:13:20that people are worried about Tommo's language
0:13:20 > 0:13:22and the English songs on his programme.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25I would worry more if there were mistakes in the news programmes.
0:13:25 > 0:13:29I think there is a place for everyday Welsh,
0:13:29 > 0:13:32be it from the west, north or east,
0:13:32 > 0:13:35but I also think that when it comes to factual programmes,
0:13:35 > 0:13:38you need linguistic correctness.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41Maybe we should ensure that correctness in those programmes,
0:13:41 > 0:13:46which would allow the popular programmes to be more colloquial.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50Let's return to the question of English music on the station.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52We recently heard from Dewi Pws.
0:13:52 > 0:13:56He was adamant that there should not be any English music
0:13:56 > 0:14:00on a radio station specifically aimed at Welsh listeners.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04If people want to listen to English music,
0:14:04 > 0:14:07why do they not switch to Radio 1, Radio 2 or Radio 3?
0:14:07 > 0:14:09Some people in Wales make their living
0:14:09 > 0:14:13out of having their Welsh-language songs played on Radio Cymru.
0:14:13 > 0:14:18You have to consider how much English music is used.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21I am not in a situation to criticise
0:14:21 > 0:14:25because I don't always listen to the service.
0:14:25 > 0:14:31Radio Cymru says more Welsh music is being played now than before.
0:14:31 > 0:14:35If that is true, I am happy with it.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39From what I understand, the Tommo programme, for example,
0:14:39 > 0:14:41plays one English song every hour.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44I do not find that unacceptable.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47To broaden the discussion slightly,
0:14:47 > 0:14:53this week, changes have been made to ITV's weekday morning programme
0:14:53 > 0:14:55to popularise news, if you like.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58It is a battle to keep an audience
0:14:58 > 0:15:04and to ensure that the audience is not only retained, but increases.
0:15:04 > 0:15:09Well, in English, there is more and more competition.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11There are more and more channels.
0:15:11 > 0:15:15What is interesting about ITV is that for years,
0:15:15 > 0:15:19they had the most popular breakfast programme in Britain.
0:15:19 > 0:15:24It was a much more lowbrow programme than they have at the moment.
0:15:24 > 0:15:31So this idea that everything is dumbed down,
0:15:31 > 0:15:33that is not true.
0:15:33 > 0:15:35Some things are moving in the opposite correction.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37But with these English programmes,
0:15:37 > 0:15:40only a few radio stations, even those abroad,
0:15:40 > 0:15:44do not play English music.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48You can hear them in France, Germany, across Asia.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50That is worldwide music.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52But having said that,
0:15:52 > 0:15:55we only have one Welsh language national station.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59There's currently a suggestion of having a second station.
0:15:59 > 0:16:00Would that change the situation?
0:16:00 > 0:16:03Could you have a high standard of Welsh on one
0:16:03 > 0:16:07and something else on the other?
0:16:07 > 0:16:09It would help, but why only two?
0:16:09 > 0:16:13We have digital technology which would allow us more than two.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16But maybe there is not the money to allow that.
0:16:16 > 0:16:20Radio Cymru's primary language is Welsh.
0:16:20 > 0:16:25If English is used, we need a reason and justification.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28I think with young people's programmes,
0:16:28 > 0:16:30they expect to hear English music
0:16:30 > 0:16:34and there is nothing wrong with appreciating English music
0:16:34 > 0:16:36through the medium of Welsh.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39I don't see a problem with that at all.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42Maybe it would be a bit different with other programmes
0:16:42 > 0:16:46which are broadcast in the mornings and afternoons.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48OK. Let's turn to yet another hot potato.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51Finally, the royal family has received
0:16:51 > 0:16:53a lot of media attention over the last few weeks.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56Today, the Queen ended her visit to Wales.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00And William and Kate's visit to New Zealand and Australia
0:17:00 > 0:17:02received a lot of publicity.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05But does that bore us or entertain us?
0:17:05 > 0:17:08Janet Ebenezer went on her own tour of Llandeilo
0:17:08 > 0:17:10to ask some people there.
0:17:11 > 0:17:16There's no doubt that Carreg Cennen Castle has seen better days
0:17:16 > 0:17:21but it's easy to imagine this place in its full glory
0:17:21 > 0:17:23during the days of Lord Rhys.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27The princes may no longer be part of the community,
0:17:27 > 0:17:31but we still get a few Royal visits,
0:17:31 > 0:17:33don't we, Cadi?
0:17:36 > 0:17:40This week, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh have been
0:17:40 > 0:17:45on a two-day tour of Pembrokeshire and the Vale of Glamorgan.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48They received the usual warm welcome
0:17:48 > 0:17:50from a crowd of local school children
0:17:50 > 0:17:53and a cross-section of local residents.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56One with a link to the Royal Family
0:17:56 > 0:18:01is the High Sheriff of Dyfed and broadcaster Elinor Jones.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04The High Sheriff's role these days is to be a ceremonial figure
0:18:04 > 0:18:09at social meetings and to maintain a link with social services,
0:18:09 > 0:18:13as well as raising money for different charities.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17But, from time to time, she will also be responsible
0:18:17 > 0:18:21of guiding the Royal Family on their tours around the county.
0:18:21 > 0:18:25I never thought, when I was raised for the first three years of my life
0:18:25 > 0:18:28in a two-up, two-down thatched house,
0:18:28 > 0:18:30I would become a High Sheriff.
0:18:30 > 0:18:35I didn't know what one was until recently - until I was in my 30s.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38In that sense, I think it's a very good thing
0:18:38 > 0:18:43that the role is being offered to people outside one class.
0:18:43 > 0:18:49How relevant do you think the Royal Family is to people in Wales?
0:18:50 > 0:18:53If you had asked me years ago, I would have said...
0:18:53 > 0:18:56pointless, maybe.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59I know they're only figureheads.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02What did the economist John Maynard Keynes say?
0:19:02 > 0:19:06Circumstances changed so I changed.
0:19:06 > 0:19:10There is a stability there. It's hard to put your finger on it.
0:19:10 > 0:19:12But they are there.
0:19:12 > 0:19:16What about the future of our Royal Family?
0:19:16 > 0:19:21From the second George was carried off the plane in New Zealand
0:19:21 > 0:19:24to his appearance at Taronga Zoo in Sydney,
0:19:24 > 0:19:29this young family's Royal visit has claimed the headlines
0:19:29 > 0:19:31for whatever reason.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33Without a doubt,
0:19:33 > 0:19:37this trio represents the long-term future of the Crown.
0:19:37 > 0:19:43But how important and relevant are they to Wales and the Welsh?
0:19:43 > 0:19:47Since Prince Charles came to live in this area,
0:19:47 > 0:19:51they've done a lot to draw publicise the area
0:19:51 > 0:19:53and attract people here.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57I don't have strong feelings about them either way.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00But if they bring people to the area, great -
0:20:00 > 0:20:04bringing tourism and money into the area.
0:20:04 > 0:20:08The Royal Family in general? I don't have an opinion.
0:20:08 > 0:20:09I'm happy enough
0:20:09 > 0:20:13and it doesn't bother me if they're there or not.
0:20:13 > 0:20:18When I was young, I used to dream about being a princess here
0:20:18 > 0:20:23in the castle. For some, the romance of the Royal Family continues.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26For others, they're irrelevant.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30By the way, I didn't find my prince charming,
0:20:30 > 0:20:32but he's close enough.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40He'll be glad to hear that. There was support in Llandeilo.
0:20:40 > 0:20:46Are you as supportive of the Royal Family, Guto Bebb?
0:20:46 > 0:20:49In general, are they irrelevant to the people of Wales?
0:20:49 > 0:20:52The answer is obviously "no".
0:20:52 > 0:20:54People appreciate them.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56Over the last few days,
0:20:56 > 0:21:00two of the MPs who share an office with me went back to their
0:21:00 > 0:21:04constituencies to welcome the Queen - Alun Cairns and Simon Hart.
0:21:04 > 0:21:08The local people also gave the Royals a warm welcome.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11I'm on the Public Accounts Committee
0:21:11 > 0:21:13and, having looked at the Queen's accounts,
0:21:13 > 0:21:16if government departments were as responsible
0:21:16 > 0:21:20this country would be in a far better state.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24One of the criticisms we hear is that they are expensive.
0:21:24 > 0:21:29They have cut 25% of expenditure over five years in real terms.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33They're more real than have been.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36Where do I start?
0:21:36 > 0:21:40I don't think they're relevant. I don't think people relate to them.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43I don't think they understand what it's like
0:21:43 > 0:21:46to be a young person living in Wales.
0:21:46 > 0:21:50You say people can't relate to them but when you see Harry getting drunk
0:21:50 > 0:21:52in Las Vegas,
0:21:52 > 0:21:57maybe not everyone can afford to go to a luxury hotel in Las Vegas,
0:21:57 > 0:22:01but that's the sort of behaviour many people can relate to.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03Well, maybe.
0:22:03 > 0:22:07I can't see the purpose of having the Royal Family, to be honest.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09I believe strongly in democracy
0:22:09 > 0:22:13and I'd like a head of state elected by the people of Wales
0:22:13 > 0:22:16rather than someone born into the role.
0:22:16 > 0:22:21If you support them, or shake your head like Nerys,
0:22:21 > 0:22:24you can't argue that there isn't a curiosity.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28The Royal Family does spark people's curiosity
0:22:28 > 0:22:31for whatever reason.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33I think that's true.
0:22:33 > 0:22:37It's amazing how stable their popularity has been
0:22:37 > 0:22:41since those difficult days when the Queen had the annus horribilis,
0:22:41 > 0:22:43as she described it,
0:22:43 > 0:22:46with the family problems.
0:22:46 > 0:22:52I think any nation with a Royal Family
0:22:52 > 0:22:56is a fortunate nation because it's a powerful force
0:22:56 > 0:23:02in terms of unity, loyalty, national pride and so on.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05England is a fortunate nation to have this Royal Family
0:23:05 > 0:23:09and that's why so many people from Wales
0:23:09 > 0:23:12long for the Age of the princes in Wales.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15We don't have our own royalty.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17Due to that void,
0:23:17 > 0:23:22many people in Wales do support the Royal Family.
0:23:22 > 0:23:26Vaughan, you regularly visit Australia,
0:23:26 > 0:23:30and you'll know that it's difficult for people to turn their backs.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34I was in Australia during the referendum
0:23:34 > 0:23:36on establishing a republic in Australia.
0:23:36 > 0:23:40The problem was, the Royal Family weren't particularly popular.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43Australians aren't particularly fond of the English.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47But once you look at the other options, they asked,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50do we really want a politician as head of state?
0:23:50 > 0:23:52Do we want to elect someone
0:23:52 > 0:23:55who might compete with parliament for power?
0:23:55 > 0:23:58Do we want parliament to appoint someone?
0:23:58 > 0:24:02That meant there was a significant majority
0:24:02 > 0:24:04against getting rid of the Crown
0:24:04 > 0:24:07because people didn't like the other options.
0:24:07 > 0:24:10If Australia can't get rid of the Royal Family,
0:24:10 > 0:24:15there's no chance the UK will get rid of them in the near future.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18Briefly, Guto Bebb, have they tried to modernise?
0:24:18 > 0:24:22We've seen the younger generation taking on more duties.
0:24:22 > 0:24:23Is that the trick?
0:24:23 > 0:24:26I think there's some truth in that.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29The interesting thing is the difference between
0:24:29 > 0:24:31the SNP and Plaid Cymru.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34The SNP is able to see that the Royal Family is popular.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37Elizabeth I will remain Queen of Scotland
0:24:37 > 0:24:39if they vote for independence.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43On that note, Guto Bebb, Tweli Griffiths,
0:24:43 > 0:24:47Nerys Evans and Vaughan Roderick, thank you for your company.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49And thank you for watching.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52We'll be back at the same time next week. Good night.