:00:12. > :00:17.10 days to go until we Londoners choose our next mayor. Four of
:00:17. > :00:22.those wanting to run our great city are here. So, too, an audience of
:00:22. > :00:32.Londoners, all with questions to help them and you at home decide
:00:32. > :00:41.
:00:41. > :00:45.Welcome to the programme. You can get involved at home using Twitter.
:00:45. > :00:50.With us, Boris Johnson, for the Conservatives, Labour's Ken
:00:50. > :00:53.Livingstone, Jenny Jones, the Green candidate, and Brian Paddick for
:00:53. > :00:58.the Liberal Democrats. We will hear from the other three candidates
:00:58. > :01:04.during the course of the programme. Our first question from a graduate
:01:04. > :01:09.in turn. I live in an area which is notorious for organised crime,
:01:09. > :01:14.Croydon. If you were elected mayor, how would you ensure with the
:01:14. > :01:18.Metropolitan Police you're going to reduce the crime? What would you do
:01:18. > :01:22.about crime? The number one priority is to keep police numbers
:01:22. > :01:27.high, there are about 1004 officers on the streets of London, actually
:01:27. > :01:31.more than that, than there were when I was elected four years ago.
:01:31. > :01:35.We are putting more into the Safer Neighbourhood teams now. That's
:01:35. > :01:40.another three police constables, three special constables in each of
:01:40. > :01:45.the Safer Neighbourhood teams. That, I hope, will continue to drive down
:01:45. > :01:49.crime. I'm aware of the problems in Croydon, but we are seeing great
:01:49. > :01:54.success in bringing down crime overall. It's down more than 10 %.
:01:54. > :01:59.The murder rate in London is down by about 25 % or more since I was
:01:59. > :02:03.elected. The crucial thing is to get police officers out there where
:02:03. > :02:08.the public want to see them. the most recent figures, don't they
:02:08. > :02:11.show that robbery and knife crime is up? In the 12 months to last
:02:11. > :02:16.October, burglaries are up. The kind of crimes that most Londoners
:02:16. > :02:20.worry about. Aren't we seeing rising crime again? The most recent
:02:20. > :02:28.figures show that crimes of violence are coming down. Not knife
:02:28. > :02:33.crime, not robberies. If you look at knife crime, which was a real
:02:33. > :02:37.issue in the 2008 campaign. We've put a huge amount of effort into
:02:37. > :02:41.tackling it. We've been able to take 11,000 knives off the streets
:02:41. > :02:45.of London. We've half the number of teenage murders from knife crime.
:02:45. > :02:49.I'm not going to sit here tonight and pretend that the problem is
:02:49. > :02:52.cracked. In Croydon, areas like that, you got to have a
:02:52. > :02:57.wholehearted approach to cracking down on these gangs. That is why
:02:57. > :03:02.Bernard Hogan-Howe has done, in my view, completely the right thing to
:03:02. > :03:05.launch a big initiative. 1000 officers now dedicated to telling
:03:05. > :03:11.those key gang novels they either stop it or else the police will be
:03:11. > :03:21.on their case 24 hours a day. is a gang Norman nor? I'm using
:03:21. > :03:21.
:03:21. > :03:26.jargon, you must forgive me. The ringleaders. I think we all sat
:03:26. > :03:29.here four years ago and said, if we didn't cut crime by 20 % we would
:03:29. > :03:33.not seek re-election. I think some quite imaginative figures have gone
:03:33. > :03:38.and there to get it up to 10 %. We have a situation when crime was
:03:38. > :03:41.falling 6% a year. Getting through three Police Commissioner's is a
:03:41. > :03:44.disaster in an organisation like that. We are delighted that the
:03:44. > :03:50.number of kids being killed is down, but knife crime involving young
:03:50. > :03:54.people has gone up each year in the last four years, it's up almost a
:03:54. > :03:58.third. Part of the problem is we've lost 2100 police. These are the
:03:58. > :04:02.figures of the Met for January, compared with two years earlier.
:04:02. > :04:07.We've got the Olympics in 12 weeks. We are the biggest target for
:04:07. > :04:12.terrorism on earth. We are 2000 police officers short. That is why
:04:12. > :04:16.crime is going up. You get police out there, crime comes down.
:04:16. > :04:20.reality is there a more than 1000 more officers on the streets than
:04:20. > :04:24.their work. Ken Livingstone showed no interest at all, you didn't even
:04:24. > :04:28.measure knife crime when you were Mayor of London. Four years ago
:04:28. > :04:35.when we were talking about the terrible number of our young people
:04:35. > :04:39.who were being killed, didn't you just dismiss that as saying...
:04:39. > :04:42.Wasn't it out of touch? The not out of touch. It's one of the few
:04:42. > :04:47.things that I agreed with with Boris later that year, was that
:04:48. > :04:52.killings came down as the media interest went away. One of the real
:04:52. > :04:55.problems was the scale of media coverage when -- meant more young
:04:55. > :04:59.kids were going out with a knife. Often those knives were then used
:04:59. > :05:03.against them. That's why I've not used knife crime as an issue this
:05:03. > :05:07.time. I don't want to do anything that leads young kids to start
:05:07. > :05:11.carrying a plate out of fear of what they read in the papers.
:05:11. > :05:15.Paddick, what's the true picture of crime? The latest police figures
:05:15. > :05:19.show that the crimes of most concern to Londoners - knife crime,
:05:19. > :05:24.burglary and robbery - on the increase. Unfortunately, Boris
:05:24. > :05:30.Johnson allowed police officer numbers to fall by 1700. OK, he's
:05:30. > :05:37.going to put 1000 of them back but we are still down. What is the high
:05:37. > :05:41.tide mark for you? 33,250. Have we had that before? Yes, we've had
:05:41. > :05:44.that under Boris Johnson but he's allowed those numbers to fall. The
:05:44. > :05:47.most important thing is to get Londoners and the police standing
:05:48. > :05:52.together against a criminal. A ComRes poll a few weeks ago showed
:05:52. > :05:55.that 20 % of Londoners did not believe police were on their side.
:05:55. > :05:59.We got to get the police concentrating on our priorities,
:05:59. > :06:04.not their priorities. This stuff about numbers of police officers is
:06:04. > :06:07.nonsense. There's such an obsession of keeping officer numbers up in a
:06:07. > :06:11.time of budgetary Harjit, that Boris has got loads and loads of
:06:11. > :06:16.backroom staff, it means officers are not out on the streets dealing
:06:16. > :06:19.with criminals. They are in custody suites, doing paperwork, answering
:06:19. > :06:24.calls in call centres. So don't be fooled. On the issue of organised
:06:24. > :06:29.crime, we have to create more trust in the police. Trust has got to
:06:29. > :06:32.be... How do you do that? You start by making sure you do have been a
:06:32. > :06:36.police officers out there talking to people. If you need information
:06:36. > :06:40.to fight organised crime, you need information from communities,
:06:40. > :06:44.shopkeepers, teachers, everybody who gets talking to ordinary people.
:06:44. > :06:49.The police can do it, they've done it in the past, but at the moment
:06:49. > :06:57.it is not working. Let's get another question. We've got a
:06:57. > :07:01.former probation officer from How well each of the candidates
:07:01. > :07:05.ensure it the accountability of the Metropolitan Police without too
:07:05. > :07:08.much political interference? How do you get accountability but not
:07:08. > :07:12.politicise the police force? got to have a good working
:07:12. > :07:16.relationship between the mayor and the commissioner. You got too much
:07:16. > :07:19.more involved the public. One of the things I wanted to, and Brian
:07:19. > :07:23.is right about the problem with trust, is have a police officer
:07:23. > :07:28.allocated to each of the 400 or so secondary schools in London,
:07:28. > :07:32.because that's a great weight, kids come on the scene, kids carrying a
:07:32. > :07:35.knife or whatever, then you've got to involve the public much more in
:07:35. > :07:38.setting that agenda to the police. Far too often the police
:07:38. > :07:42.bureaucracy has gone off in a different direction to what people
:07:42. > :07:46.are concerned about. I had a real struggle to overcome the resistance
:07:46. > :07:49.in the police to get back neighbourhood patrols. They are one
:07:49. > :07:52.of the best things we did. Now we are going to increase them. Under
:07:52. > :07:56.Boris Johnson, the sergeants leading those patrols, we've lost
:07:56. > :08:00.half of them across London. We are talking about accountability here.
:08:01. > :08:06.Not only are the expanding the Safer Neighbourhood teams, 2000
:08:06. > :08:10.more officers going from some of these squads, the backroom squads,
:08:10. > :08:14.into frontline policing, three police constables and three
:08:14. > :08:17.specials. But in order to give the public the kind of influence people
:08:17. > :08:22.want over neighbourhood policing, we are setting up Safer
:08:22. > :08:25.Neighbourhood boards. So that members of the public can interact
:08:25. > :08:29.with the police, can help to set priorities for those Safer
:08:29. > :08:32.Neighbourhood teams. We are talking about how we hold the police
:08:32. > :08:37.accountable, and we can only do that through our elected
:08:37. > :08:42.representatives. You describe the phone hacking scandals as, quote, a
:08:42. > :08:47.load of codswallop. As the man ultimately in charge of the Met,
:08:47. > :08:53.that was a serious misjudgment, wasn't it? Let's be clear, this was
:08:53. > :08:58.said on the basis and on the briefing that I was expressly given
:08:58. > :09:01.at the time, in the sense that I was told there was nothing more and
:09:01. > :09:07.no new evidence had been found. Clearly, as things turned out, a
:09:07. > :09:11.great deal was going on that needed to be sorted out. I think at the
:09:11. > :09:16.time you said you couldn't remember what Yates of the yard had told you.
:09:16. > :09:20.It was only later that you then remembered. You also said, quote,
:09:20. > :09:25.it's a political put up job by Labour. You are not telling us that
:09:25. > :09:30.gates of the Yard told you that. that was what I thought was going
:09:30. > :09:35.on. And you were wrong. campaign was being led very much by
:09:35. > :09:41.the Labour Party. It turned out that there was a great deal of
:09:41. > :09:44.Everton's that should have been properly investigated. As the
:09:44. > :09:48.assistant commissioner himself pointed out in a letter, to which
:09:48. > :09:56.everybody has had access, the briefing he gave us was there was
:09:56. > :10:00.no new evidence. You've made a big deal about the number of times the
:10:00. > :10:04.mayor has seen a senior News International executives and his
:10:04. > :10:09.contacts with them. What are you implying by that, are you implying
:10:09. > :10:13.that he is in their pockets? think Boris very much wants the
:10:13. > :10:18.support of News International when he seeks that Tory party leadership.
:10:18. > :10:21.Your party has been on its knees at times. I've never expected Rupert
:10:21. > :10:25.Murdoch's support for anything. At the last election, Rupert Murdoch
:10:25. > :10:31.personally phoned his editors in this country to make sure they are
:10:31. > :10:34.endorsing Boris. Be quiet. shovelled taxpayers' money down the
:10:34. > :10:40.gullets of Rupert Murdoch's papers in the hope of getting their
:10:40. > :10:44.support. Yes, you did. It's not the fact you were relied -- lied to by
:10:44. > :10:47.someone, the problem is the person you appointed to politically
:10:47. > :10:53.oversee the police on three occasions told the police they were
:10:53. > :10:58.putting too much resources into phone hacking. No, he didn't.
:10:58. > :11:01.That's what the police say, Boris. What Kit Malthouse said, and what I
:11:01. > :11:08.happen to think is the right way forward, we've got to continue with
:11:08. > :11:12.this, we've got to get to the bottom... He said scale it back.
:11:12. > :11:16.Ken Livingstone used to shovel money in the direction of Rupert
:11:16. > :11:20.Murdoch-owned newspapers in the hope of securing their support.
:11:20. > :11:23.What Kit Malthouse was right in saying is once this whole business
:11:23. > :11:28.has been completed and every journalist has been led off in
:11:28. > :11:35.manacles and every policeman... every journalist! Why not, I don't
:11:35. > :11:42.know what your involvement in this was, Andrew. Absolutely pursue it.
:11:42. > :11:46.But once it has been... Sorted out, what I want, and what the vast
:11:46. > :11:50.majority of people in London one, is the significant number of police
:11:50. > :11:55.officers who are dedicated it is to get on with what they really need
:11:55. > :11:57.to do, which is cutting crime in London. Are you accusing him of
:11:57. > :12:02.having an inappropriate relationship with News
:12:02. > :12:06.International or not? He is as bad as Tony Blair was. Everyone Courts
:12:06. > :12:09.Murdoch because they didn't want to be condemned. I don't think Boris
:12:09. > :12:14.does the sort of detail that would have led him into any real
:12:14. > :12:20.understanding of what was going on. I said he was giving them
:12:20. > :12:25.taxpayers' money. That's the sort of backhanded compliment. There are
:12:25. > :12:30.three other candidates standing for mayor. Carlos Cortiglia, from the
:12:30. > :12:36.BNP, Lawrence Webb, from UKIP, and the Independent, Siobhan Benita
:12:36. > :12:41.macro. I will reform completely the police service, to make it
:12:41. > :12:44.intellectually fit, physically fit, to reorganise the functions of
:12:44. > :12:48.command and control and management of police resources in the London
:12:48. > :12:51.region. What we saw after the London riots were people that were
:12:51. > :12:55.arrested, but before the magistrate and jailed very quickly. This
:12:55. > :12:59.should be the norm. If you offend on Friday, you should be jailed on
:12:59. > :13:03.Monday. This would make the streets a lot safer, because 200 crimes a
:13:03. > :13:07.day are committed by people on bail. Taking them off the streets earlier
:13:07. > :13:10.would make life safer for everyone. I am saying we would have an
:13:10. > :13:13.external review of the Metropolitan Police Service. It would address
:13:13. > :13:17.efficiency, how do we use our police officers most effectively.
:13:17. > :13:20.There is no right number four police numbers. And also tackle
:13:20. > :13:30.those cultural issues that still exist in the Metropolitan Police
:13:30. > :13:31.
:13:31. > :13:36.Let's move on to really important issue for us - transport.
:13:36. > :13:40.What is your question? I rely on buses to get around. A lot of young
:13:40. > :13:45.people my age are in the same situation. What will you do to make
:13:46. > :13:51.sure that bus drivers, on Olympic routes, do not strike over their
:13:51. > :13:56.bonuses during this summer's Games? How will you stop them striking?
:13:56. > :14:00.am hoping as it only ten weeks between the elections and the mayor,
:14:00. > :14:05.the sitting mayor will have dealt with all of this. It's not only the
:14:05. > :14:11.buses, it's the underground. I told Transport for London I wanted a
:14:11. > :14:15.four-year pay deal. I did not want to be up against it and having to
:14:15. > :14:19.negotiate when the unions were in a strong position. I will sit down. I
:14:19. > :14:23.will negotiate a deal. I will not give into demands which I think are
:14:23. > :14:28.unreasonable. What yould you do to make shoe the Olympics - when the
:14:28. > :14:34.eyes of the world are upon us - that we are not made to look
:14:34. > :14:39.foolish by strikes? If we are to be made to look foolish, it is because
:14:39. > :14:43.the mayor has not sat down with union leaders, developed a rapport
:14:43. > :14:46.with those individuals, so that this sort of dispute does not arise
:14:46. > :14:50.in the first place. With such little time between the
:14:50. > :14:54.announcement of the election and the Olympics, it will be very
:14:54. > :14:59.difficult not to give into these demands. You have from day one.
:14:59. > :15:04.What I will do is develop a relationship, a rapport with the
:15:04. > :15:09.union leaders, so we have an on going dialogue, rather than only
:15:09. > :15:14.meeting when it comes to pay deals. Isn't it true at the last election
:15:14. > :15:19.you said you would agree a no- strike deal with the unions? You
:15:20. > :15:25.never got around to talking to them about it? My old chum is showing...
:15:25. > :15:29.Which one? That one and this one too. They are showing inattention
:15:29. > :15:34.to detail T reality is that I've had regular meetings with the trade
:15:34. > :15:38.unions, beginning, I am afraid, with a clear message to me that
:15:38. > :15:42.they did not want such a deal. What we have achieved, and I think it is
:15:42. > :15:47.surprising that news has not reached Ken Livingstone or Brian -
:15:47. > :15:53.we have achieved a multi-year pay agreement. Yes, there have been
:15:53. > :15:57.some strikes during this - but let's be clear they were occasioned
:15:57. > :16:03.because we had to put in reforms of the ticketing systems that were
:16:03. > :16:12.absolutely in the interests of London Underground, of London
:16:12. > :16:20.Transport users and which this previous mayor completely....
:16:20. > :16:23.leaders of the unions to discuss a no-strike agreement? I have
:16:23. > :16:29.discussed a no-strike agreement with the trade unions and I am
:16:29. > :16:36.afraid to say they were not amenable. This was always a
:16:36. > :16:46.ridiculous promise. What is your experience? I actually
:16:46. > :16:53.
:16:53. > :16:59.quite like Bob Crow. His promise about... I believe in
:16:59. > :17:05.dialogue. This no-strike deal promised during the last election
:17:05. > :17:09.was an example of Boris's inexperience. What we have to do
:17:09. > :17:14.now with the bus drivers, we have to keep talking to them, because
:17:14. > :17:19.it's the only way. We should have had an agreement over the Olympics.
:17:19. > :17:22.What the questioner is asking about is, are we going to have strikes
:17:22. > :17:29.between now and the Olympics and during the Olympics? On that,
:17:29. > :17:33.because it is very important - I think it is overwhelmingly unlikely
:17:33. > :17:37.that hard-working people on London Underground, people who drive our
:17:37. > :17:42.buses - actually all the public services, in London, will want to
:17:42. > :17:49.go on strike during the Olympics or Paralympic Games. They want to show
:17:49. > :17:52.our city off to the best possible... The mayor has said there will not
:17:52. > :17:56.be strikes. That will be all right then!
:17:56. > :18:04.I want to stick with transport because we think it is one of the
:18:04. > :18:11.most important issues. We have a solicitor from Islington.
:18:11. > :18:19.Ken Livingstone, your manifesto states you will cut fares by% or
:18:19. > :18:26.you will resign. How -- 7% or you will resign? Because we have the
:18:26. > :18:32.highest fares in the world. Moody's reported this year the total
:18:32. > :18:36.surplus is �1.3 billion. I will take �269 million out of the fares
:18:36. > :18:42.surplus and put it back in Londoners' pockets. There's no
:18:42. > :18:44.justification at a time like this for a public body having money it
:18:44. > :18:49.cannot use because Boris Johnson has underspent year by year, by
:18:49. > :18:55.year, put it back in people's pockets, they will spend it in
:18:55. > :19:00.shops, help the economy. You are shaking your head? I have had a
:19:00. > :19:03.meeting transport for London. They tell me it is not possible. We will
:19:03. > :19:09.target fare reductions on those people who can least afford to
:19:09. > :19:14.travel. Things like a one-hour bus ticket, so you can hop on and auve
:19:14. > :19:20.to complete your journey within one -- off, to classroom pleet your
:19:20. > :19:25.journey within one hour. We have a discount if you travel before 7am.
:19:25. > :19:28.People who work part-time do not get paid as much as those working
:19:28. > :19:33.full-time. It does not make sense for them to have a season ticket,
:19:33. > :19:37.they should only have one if they work two or three days a week.
:19:37. > :19:42.Our fully-costed plans cost one- third of the amount that Ken
:19:42. > :19:49.Livingstone's plan is going to cost. Is there any money on the Transport
:19:49. > :19:53.for London accounts that could be used to cut fares? Of course there.
:19:53. > :19:59.Let me explain - no, the short answer is, no, there isn't. Take it
:19:59. > :20:03.from Ken Livingstone, who was in an identical position. He was accused
:20:03. > :20:06.of refusing to cut fares and favouring investment. He said,
:20:06. > :20:11.there is no slush fund, all the balances we have are allocated
:20:11. > :20:17.against the range of projects going forward.
:20:17. > :20:21.And you increased the fares, but Boris that was before you increased
:20:21. > :20:26.the fares. ALL SPEAK AT ONCE order to fulfil your promise, which
:20:26. > :20:31.by the way I do not believe for one minute, if you were elected, you
:20:31. > :20:39.would fulfil. I will resign if I break that pledge. Why don't you
:20:39. > :20:43.save time and resign now. Let me put the point to Ken
:20:43. > :20:48.Livingstone. What the mayor is saying and what others have said is
:20:48. > :20:55.that you are taking money that is from revenues, but is meant to be
:20:55. > :20:59.for capital investment to give as a 21st century transport system and
:20:59. > :21:03.you will use that for current spending? The economists, 13 of
:21:03. > :21:09.them, who have looked at the Transport for London accounts, have
:21:10. > :21:14.come out and said... Don't you remember, I cut the fares by 25% in
:21:14. > :21:20.1983. We got so many more people using the underground and the buses
:21:20. > :21:24.so we were able to cut the council tax the following year by 7%. We've
:21:24. > :21:30.made no allowance for the extra use there'll be. In actual fact we
:21:30. > :21:35.might be able to extent the fares. It is your track record on fares
:21:35. > :21:45.which has some wondering. You promised to freeze fares in 2000.
:21:45. > :21:49.You didn't. I did. You didn't. You did that in 2004. You promised no
:21:49. > :21:52.more than inflation in 2004, after that. You broke both of these
:21:53. > :21:56.promises. You then said of the congestion charge. You told the BBC
:21:56. > :22:02.in 2003, I cannot see any foreseeable circumstance force a
:22:02. > :22:08.rise. Two years later, you put it up. A short horizon. I went saying
:22:08. > :22:12.I would increase the congestion charge. 2003 you told the BBC you
:22:12. > :22:17.wouldn't. I changed my mind. I made it a commitment in the election. On
:22:17. > :22:22.the fares. They were set in January 2000. I said I would freeze them
:22:22. > :22:27.for four years. I increased them in January 2004. That was four years.
:22:27. > :22:31.The only time I increased them above inflation was two years to
:22:31. > :22:41.pay for the upgrade of the London Underground, which half the people
:22:41. > :22:42.
:22:42. > :22:45.here used to get here. Listen, the fact is three political
:22:46. > :22:48.parties are sitting here. We have all done our sums and say fares can
:22:48. > :22:55.go down. It is only the Conservatives who say they have to
:22:55. > :22:59.put it up. They have put them up massively... They will go down.
:22:59. > :23:02.When Under me. Far more than... you know what he says in his
:23:03. > :23:07.manifesto? We will put in the investment in automation which will
:23:07. > :23:16.take out the cost and enable us to hold down fares in a sustainable
:23:16. > :23:21.way over the medium and long-term. If we re-elect you as mayor, we
:23:21. > :23:29.face inflation-plus fare rises for the next four years, inflation,
:23:29. > :23:34.plus 2%. Correct? No mayor... your transport plan. Thank you very
:23:34. > :23:39.much. 2% above inflation each year for four years. Is that the first
:23:39. > :23:43.time you have seen that? No mayor commitments himself to a
:23:43. > :23:51.fares package from one year to the next. I will look at what we can do
:23:51. > :23:57.next year to bear down on fares. They will be lower with me than
:23:57. > :24:02.under Ken Livingstone. We will take out cost by modernising in a way he
:24:02. > :24:06.would not do. I want to broaden this up. You have promised to cut
:24:06. > :24:13.fares. The polls suggest people don't believe you. There's an issue
:24:13. > :24:23.of trust with you. Your party, the Labour Party is 15% ahead of the
:24:23. > :24:23.
:24:23. > :24:30.Tories in London. You, personally, are 6% behind the Tories. That is
:24:30. > :24:34.21%, 21% Ken Livingstone, distrust deficit.
:24:34. > :24:41.We'll see on polling day. I tell you this, when I am on the street,
:24:41. > :24:45.all I have is people saying to me, "You have to win." It matters to
:24:45. > :24:51.them. Polls have occasionally got it wrong in the past. Are you
:24:51. > :25:01.denying Labour is ahead as a party? I find people when I am knocking on
:25:01. > :25:08.doors say, oh Boris makes me laugh." I say, "Well, he has put
:25:08. > :25:12.your fares up." If it was a contest for being on have I got news for
:25:12. > :25:22.you.... I will not take the catastrophic discussions. He talks
:25:22. > :25:22.
:25:22. > :25:29.about what he did in the Jurassic epoch of 1993.... You were at Eton.
:25:29. > :25:31.What people forget is as a result of that extremely irresponsible
:25:31. > :25:38.decision Londoners lost control of the Tube. The Government was
:25:38. > :25:42.obliged to take it over. It led to a period of continual
:25:42. > :25:47.underinvestment. I get back to the gentleman who asked the question.
:25:47. > :25:52.want to bring in someone new. He may be talking, but ignore him.
:25:52. > :25:57.Fares, it is so important. Gentleman there. I believe you
:25:57. > :26:07.promised you will bring back the freedom pass for 60 year olds, is
:26:07. > :26:08.
:26:08. > :26:11.that true? I will get the whole man, woman, over 60 off the age
:26:11. > :26:15.escalator, which was not opposed by the Labour candidate when it was
:26:15. > :26:21.brought in by the Labour Government. Who are you talking about. There is
:26:21. > :26:27.only one. It is not true. Just for clarity's
:26:27. > :26:32.sake. ALL SPEAK AT ONCE We have a 24-hour freedom pass for
:26:32. > :26:38.every man and woman in this city over 60. I want to hear from the
:26:38. > :26:43.people who will decide whether you have a job or not. Do the others
:26:43. > :26:49.think it is acceptable that Ken excludes breaking promises by
:26:49. > :26:56.saying he has changed his mind? Quite clearly it is not acceptable.
:26:56. > :26:59.It is not acceptable to funnel your income through a private company
:26:59. > :27:07.and then criticise other force doing the same thing. It is not
:27:07. > :27:09.about -- others for doing the same thing. It is not about that. It is
:27:09. > :27:18.hypercritical to condemn other people for doing the same as you
:27:18. > :27:24.The mayor now has complete responsibility for housing. Let's
:27:24. > :27:26.go to a sixth-form teacher from Walthamstow. I've recently been
:27:26. > :27:29.house-hunting and I'm finding it very difficult. Given that
:27:29. > :27:34.affordable housing in the capital is virtually non-existent, are
:27:34. > :27:39.there any plans to make housing more affordable? Ken Livingstone,
:27:39. > :27:42.what would you do? The most obvious way to do with his build good-
:27:42. > :27:47.quality council housing. By biggest disagreement with Tony Blair,
:27:47. > :27:50.except for the war in Iraq, he carried on Mrs Thatcher's ban on
:27:50. > :27:54.building council housing. In the last six months, government figures
:27:54. > :27:59.show only 56 affordable homes have been started in the city. We need
:27:59. > :28:04.to be thinking of building at least 35,000 homes a year for a decade to
:28:04. > :28:08.have any impact on the situation. What would you do, what is your
:28:08. > :28:13.target? My target is to establish a housebuilding programme of at least
:28:13. > :28:18.35. If possible, it should be up nearer 50, as part of a ten-year
:28:18. > :28:22.programme. And to access pension funds for this. Pension funds are
:28:22. > :28:25.being speculated all around the world, often making losses. If they
:28:25. > :28:29.were to invest in building council housing, passage to a local
:28:29. > :28:34.authority to manage it, a much more secure investment for people's
:28:34. > :28:39.pensions. Brian Paddick, we are desperately short of affordable
:28:39. > :28:44.homes. How would you improve that? The difficulty is, people keep
:28:44. > :28:49.talking about affordable homes but as was widely said, hardly anyone
:28:49. > :28:53.can afford these so-called affordable homes. If you are one
:28:53. > :28:56.�500,000 a year, they may be affordable, but for most of us they
:28:56. > :29:01.are not. From May, the mayor will be the biggest landowner in London.
:29:01. > :29:06.There's the land available to build on. That's 60 % of building new
:29:06. > :29:08.homes in London is the cost of the land. You only need 40 % capital to
:29:08. > :29:14.build a really good homes for Londoners. That means you can
:29:14. > :29:18.charge 40 % of the rent. J Lee Jones, can you be green and want to
:29:18. > :29:21.build a lot of homes as well? can if you make sure they are
:29:21. > :29:26.sustainable homes. Something which doesn't cost you a fortune to run
:29:26. > :29:31.once it's built. Is there anything you don't put sustainable in front
:29:31. > :29:34.of? A everybody wants a future, don't they? What we are saying is
:29:34. > :29:39.we can make London more affordable in housing, but also through
:29:39. > :29:44.transport. And we can make it a more equal society. Because under
:29:44. > :29:49.this last mayor, the equality in London has just gone berserk. The
:29:50. > :29:54.gap between rich and poor has got so wide. Affordable housing, we
:29:54. > :30:01.would build 15,000 affordable homes every year and make 40 % of those
:30:01. > :30:07.family homes. What is affordable? We would say what is affordable.
:30:07. > :30:10.This is what the mayor can do. The mayor can say, this is an
:30:11. > :30:13.affordable home. This mayor has stretched the concept of
:30:13. > :30:18.affordability to something that only quite well the people can
:30:18. > :30:22.afford. That is not true, Jenny. You can be much more ambitious than
:30:23. > :30:27.that. What we are doing, we've already done a record number of
:30:27. > :30:34.affordable homes over the lifetime of this mayoralty. We've done
:30:34. > :30:40.52,000 so far. You promised in 2004 that you'd do 60,000 for that
:30:40. > :30:43.period. You in fact ended up doing 32,000. We are going to go forward.
:30:44. > :30:50.I just want to answer the question. It is absolutely vital that we
:30:50. > :30:54.build homes for social rent, as Brian says. That you put the land
:30:54. > :31:01.available together to encourage more development. But you also help
:31:01. > :31:08.people who may wish to get some of the equity of their home. Our
:31:08. > :31:12.scheme for part by, Park went, it has helped about 25,000 people just
:31:12. > :31:17.get a share of the value of their home. We are helping people, where
:31:17. > :31:23.possible, in very tough times, to get on the property ladder as well.
:31:23. > :31:27.A general question on this issue, which all of you should think about.
:31:28. > :31:34.In Ken Livingstone's first term you build 36,000 a portable homes, in
:31:34. > :31:38.your second, 50,000. You say you've built just over 60,000 -- 50,000 in
:31:38. > :31:42.your first term. In this city we have 350,000 families on the
:31:43. > :31:52.waiting list, kids in overcrowded accommodation. Don't you all need
:31:52. > :31:56.to do much, much better? Absolutely. And the number one problem is not
:31:56. > :32:03.just the difficulty in bringing the land forward. It is the planning
:32:03. > :32:07.restrictions and the inertia that we are seeing... We have identified
:32:07. > :32:13.brownfield sites, not back gardens, not green spaces, brownfield sites
:32:13. > :32:17.where you can build 360,000 new homes over the next 10 years. Vote
:32:17. > :32:20.for me as mayor, and that is exactly what we will do. The we've
:32:20. > :32:27.heard from the four main candidates, but this is what the other three
:32:27. > :32:30.would do for housing in our capital. I will strive to get real levels -
:32:30. > :32:35.Mark rid of the bureaucracy that are destroying the possibility of
:32:35. > :32:40.new houses in London. They are making money at the expense of
:32:40. > :32:44.people who are desperate to find a home. I want to prioritise
:32:44. > :32:47.Londoners over other people. At the moment, you can arrive from
:32:47. > :32:50.Newcastle or anywhere in Europe and go to the top of the housing list
:32:50. > :32:54.if you're homeless. The way we would do it is we would prioritise
:32:54. > :32:58.people who have lived in London for five years, the same criteria as we
:32:58. > :33:02.currently have for residents in the UK. I will help all of those people
:33:02. > :33:06.who at the moment can't get onto the housing market. I will create a
:33:06. > :33:10.fixed price housing market in London. This is a radical solution
:33:10. > :33:14.for a babaco problem. I'm going to create 20,000 low-cost homes in
:33:14. > :33:24.London, year on year during my mayoralty. They will never get sold
:33:24. > :33:26.
:33:26. > :33:30.Now we move on. I came to the city at 21, straight out of university.
:33:30. > :33:34.It was fantastic. My suspicion is it's much tougher for young people
:33:34. > :33:40.today than it was for me then. Let's go to a student from
:33:40. > :33:44.Streatham. With the awful state of the economy right now, I'm worried
:33:44. > :33:47.about how I will be able to get a job when I become a graduate. What
:33:47. > :33:53.is your plan for long-term, sustainable employment for young
:33:53. > :33:56.people? How are we going to get jobs? You've got to keep investing
:33:56. > :34:00.in the big projects had been talking about - transport, housing
:34:00. > :34:04.regeneration - those schemes alone would produce 200,000 jobs. But
:34:04. > :34:08.you've also got to make sure that our young people in this city are
:34:08. > :34:12.competitive and able to do those jobs. That means expanding the
:34:12. > :34:17.apprenticeship schemes that we've begun and that are going very fast
:34:17. > :34:23.now. 54,000 young people are into apprenticeships over the last 18
:34:23. > :34:28.months. We will expand that. This isn't just oily rags stuff, these
:34:28. > :34:33.are jobs in all kinds of professions. In order to help
:34:33. > :34:36.expand the apprenticeship scheme, what we are now doing is offering
:34:36. > :34:42.people accredited apprenticeship schemes, offering them the same
:34:42. > :34:45.cut-price travel that you get if you are in full-time education.
:34:45. > :34:50.They've got to be proper apprenticeships. One I left school
:34:50. > :34:54.I got an apprenticeship, it led to a proper, full-time job. Too many
:34:54. > :34:59.of the schemes being kicked around now, you are there for six months,
:34:59. > :35:02.its work experience. If you look at whether world economy is growing,
:35:02. > :35:06.it's in China, India and Brazil. All of those firms have got to do
:35:06. > :35:09.business somewhere in Europe. We should be saying the best place to
:35:09. > :35:14.do business is London. The most dynamic workforce and the most
:35:14. > :35:18.tolerant city. But Boris Johnson closed the offices that I opened in
:35:18. > :35:25.India to try to attract that investment. No great growth coming
:35:25. > :35:30.out of Europe. We had over 200 negotiations going on when I lost
:35:30. > :35:35.office. But Forest thought these were... Which company can we point
:35:35. > :35:42.to came to London with lots of jobs because of these offices? I don't
:35:42. > :35:47.have a list. Just one would do. were getting endless numbers of new
:35:47. > :35:50.jobs in because people want to come here. It is not the big
:35:50. > :35:54.organisations. We know that the jobs that are being created in
:35:54. > :35:58.London of a small and medium-sized businesses. It's about encouraging
:35:58. > :36:01.young on for -- young entrepreneurs. It's getting the banks to lend to
:36:01. > :36:06.young people, who don't have a track record but have a great
:36:06. > :36:10.business plan. It's about helping at that level. If necessary, the
:36:10. > :36:15.mayor setting up his own bank to be able to help those young people who
:36:15. > :36:21.are being discriminated against just because they are young.
:36:21. > :36:25.mayor was going to lend money. What is the green policy put creating
:36:25. > :36:29.jobs in our city? We would have 150,000 apprenticeships, which we
:36:29. > :36:34.would hope to lead to jobs, because we would start up Moorgreen
:36:34. > :36:37.industries. Britain has a fantastic record of being very creative in
:36:37. > :36:42.sustainable industries. These are things we can do in London, and
:36:42. > :36:49.they generally lead to more jobs than, say, banking. There will be
:36:49. > :36:53.more opportunities and a Green government. The car industry,
:36:53. > :36:57.apparently, in Britain, is doing very well at the moment because
:36:57. > :37:01.they are concentrating on smaller, cheaper to run vehicles. We have
:37:01. > :37:05.that sort of technology, we can extend it. Do you think we could
:37:05. > :37:11.make cars in London? I don't particularly want to make cars in
:37:11. > :37:14.London. But it's an example of something we are good at in
:37:15. > :37:19.sustainable industries. I want some points rather than questions as we
:37:19. > :37:21.are running out of time. The gentleman there. One of the
:37:21. > :37:26.problems is young people we do feel they are being discriminated
:37:26. > :37:29.against. I'm not sure how the mayor can implement some policy which
:37:29. > :37:37.will stop people thinking... Because you think that is central
:37:37. > :37:41.government? Exactly. It's a question of Boris. London has been
:37:41. > :37:44.used as a cash cow for the rest of the country for far too long. Given
:37:44. > :37:47.the situation that your party in government now, you have an
:37:47. > :37:54.aspiration to be the next leader of your party, how can you believe
:37:54. > :38:00.that you will be the best person to stand up for Londoners for this?
:38:00. > :38:10.Let's leave that question hanging there, including Boris' leadership
:38:10. > :38:12.
:38:12. > :38:15.hopes. The gentleman in the leather jacket. There is the ability for
:38:15. > :38:21.small businesses to access the capital, that's the big problem. We
:38:21. > :38:26.need things like Grant funding for that. What could the mayor do about
:38:27. > :38:31.that? I can tell you. There's a policy that I'd be happy for the
:38:31. > :38:35.others to take up. We have a budget of about �15 billion. At the moment,
:38:35. > :38:39.it's invested with banks who don't lend to small and medium-sized
:38:40. > :38:44.businesses. We should put out to tender to all of the banks and say
:38:44. > :38:47.we will only invest our money, let our money move through banks, that
:38:47. > :38:53.do give those sorts of loans. We can do it. It's a very simple
:38:53. > :38:57.method. We have just set up, because of the cash I got from the
:38:57. > :39:00.Treasury in the last Budget, a London Growth Fund which is
:39:00. > :39:04.specifically that. It's rather on the lines of what Brian is talking
:39:04. > :39:07.about. It's happening now, it's there to give businesses low-cost
:39:07. > :39:11.loans, particularly the small and medium-sized businesses that are
:39:11. > :39:16.the potential motor of the economy. To answer the question I was asked,
:39:16. > :39:21.I quite agree with you, London exports huge sums of tax to the
:39:21. > :39:25.rest of the country. This is the great motor of the UK. And you've
:39:25. > :39:33.just woken up to that? �19 billion a year we are exporting in good
:39:33. > :39:38.times. Much of it going to Scotland. Not enough to where I live in
:39:38. > :39:48.London. Exactly right. You think London subsidises the rest of the
:39:48. > :39:53.country? It does. This isn't the Bullingdon Club, I will speak now.
:39:53. > :39:57.The real problem is when the government came along and cut about
:39:57. > :40:07.�4 million going into job regeneration or �400 million into
:40:07. > :40:12.the bus subsidy, this mayor rolled over A I've been told we haven't
:40:12. > :40:15.even got time for a final question. That is it from us. Discussion
:40:15. > :40:18.about the race for City Hall continues now on the BBC News