3:16:29 > 3:16:33This programme contains some strong language
3:16:33 > 3:16:37On Thursday September the 18th, the people of Scotland will be asked
3:16:37 > 3:16:39the most important question in its history.
3:16:39 > 3:16:42Should Scotland be an independent country?
3:16:42 > 3:16:46Voters will be given an option of a yes or a no. Like a lot of people,
3:16:46 > 3:16:49I've got some questions to ask before placing my cross
3:16:49 > 3:16:52on the ballot paper, so I thought I would head out and speak to
3:16:52 > 3:16:55loads of different people and hear from both sides of the debate.
3:16:55 > 3:16:56I'm Kevin Bridges
3:16:56 > 3:17:00and this is What's The Story? Referendum Special.
3:17:21 > 3:17:25For over 300 years, Scotland has been part of Great Britain
3:17:25 > 3:17:28and on more than a few occasions has the subject of independence
3:17:28 > 3:17:30been a huge talking point.
3:17:30 > 3:17:33I could go into more historical detail there but I won't.
3:17:33 > 3:17:36However, in 1997 there was a referendum on Scottish devolution
3:17:36 > 3:17:39that resulted in a devolved parliament being established
3:17:39 > 3:17:41two years later, in 1999.
3:17:41 > 3:17:45And then, in 2004, here in the capital city of Edinburgh,
3:17:45 > 3:17:49a brand-new, beautiful parliament building was erected.
3:17:49 > 3:17:53Now, we're in 2014 with a referendum to see if the people of Scotland
3:17:53 > 3:17:55want to go independent.
3:17:55 > 3:17:58CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
3:18:03 > 3:18:05A referendum on Scottish independence.
3:18:05 > 3:18:08I've got a backdrop there. "Yes. No. No. Yes."
3:18:08 > 3:18:11Somebody decided that should be the backdrop.
3:18:11 > 3:18:14We never had an "S" we just used a "5" there.
3:18:16 > 3:18:19Alex Salmond's registration plate.
3:18:22 > 3:18:26It's a historical time. We've got the Yes campaign.
3:18:26 > 3:18:29We've got the Better Together campaign. And we don't have
3:18:29 > 3:18:34the "Fuck it, it'll be a good laugh" campaign.
3:18:34 > 3:18:37There's a lot of negatives. I think it could be a laugh,
3:18:37 > 3:18:40the idea of Scotland being a proper foreign country.
3:18:40 > 3:18:43And we could just start messing about with the time zones
3:18:43 > 3:18:46and stuff like that.
3:18:46 > 3:18:519am every Friday, the clocks go forward for eight hours.
3:18:51 > 3:18:54LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
3:18:54 > 3:18:57Who could stop us? It's our country.
3:18:57 > 3:19:029pm, Sunday night, they go back for eight hours.
3:19:02 > 3:19:05Just when your hangover's getting away, you've ate your Chinese,
3:19:05 > 3:19:08eight hours, back to one in the afternoon.
3:19:18 > 3:19:20My mission on this show is simple.
3:19:20 > 3:19:22I want to gather as many opinions as I can,
3:19:22 > 3:19:25and opinions that matter to me, so that I can come to my own decision
3:19:25 > 3:19:29about whether Scotland should become an independent country.
3:19:29 > 3:19:33First stop, well, for me, it's always my mum and dad.
3:19:33 > 3:19:36I staged a revolution of my own a while back when I moved out
3:19:36 > 3:19:40of the parental home to go it alone. So I went to meet my mum and dad
3:19:40 > 3:19:43at a cafe in my native Clydebank where I grew up,
3:19:43 > 3:19:46to see how they felt my independence had gone and, of course, to gauge
3:19:46 > 3:19:50their thoughts on the slightly more pressing issue of Scotland's future.
3:19:50 > 3:19:55I went independent from yous, so to speak, in 2011,
3:19:55 > 3:19:57when I moved out of the family home.
3:19:57 > 3:20:00I'll give you that credit of being fully independent
3:20:00 > 3:20:02when you can work that washing machine.
3:20:02 > 3:20:06- Right, so I've got devolution then. - Aye.- Aye.- I would say so.
3:20:06 > 3:20:09So have you read the White Paper?
3:20:09 > 3:20:10No.
3:20:10 > 3:20:13Tell Kevin about that, the White Paper.
3:20:13 > 3:20:18Kevin, right, I honestly thought it was just a bit of A4 paper.
3:20:18 > 3:20:21It's deceptive. It's called the White Paper.
3:20:21 > 3:20:24It was like the Argos catalogue. It's thick,
3:20:24 > 3:20:27how thick it was, and I'm like that to your dad,
3:20:27 > 3:20:29"That's the White Paper."
3:20:29 > 3:20:34I've read it cover to cover. I've also read the Gaelic version.
3:20:36 > 3:20:39Did you ever think you would see a referendum on Scottish independence
3:20:39 > 3:20:41in your lifetime?
3:20:41 > 3:20:44- No.- No, to be truthful, no.
3:20:44 > 3:20:46Do you talk about it much?
3:20:46 > 3:20:49Well, obviously now it's on everybody's lips, because
3:20:49 > 3:20:52even people that normally wouldn't talk about politics or whatever,
3:20:52 > 3:20:54you know, they're all having their say
3:20:54 > 3:20:59- because I suppose it affects everybody, you know?- Yep.
3:20:59 > 3:21:02- In the whole of Scotland. - Especially in the Yes campaign.
3:21:02 > 3:21:05A lot of their support is coming via online outlets and media
3:21:05 > 3:21:08rather than the mainstream. Where are you getting your info from?
3:21:08 > 3:21:11Your facts, and where are you doing your reading?
3:21:11 > 3:21:15- Probably off you and John and things I read in the paper.- Right.
3:21:15 > 3:21:18- But that's about it.- So you feel as if you don't know enough.
3:21:18 > 3:21:22Well, I know enough that on this occasion
3:21:22 > 3:21:25- I would definitely be influenced by you and John.- OK.
3:21:25 > 3:21:28Because yous are the future. Yous are the younger.
3:21:28 > 3:21:30But then they're saying that younger people
3:21:30 > 3:21:33are influenced by their parents, so it's a stand-off.
3:21:33 > 3:21:36- Somebody needs to make a decision, Paddy.- Well...- It's me or you.
3:21:36 > 3:21:38It's all in the melting pot, isn't it?
3:21:38 > 3:21:41You're waiting to see how I vote and I'm waiting to see how you vote.
3:21:41 > 3:21:44Have we got any young people in? Give me a cheer if you're...
3:21:44 > 3:21:45CHEERING
3:21:45 > 3:21:48if...you're under 18. Yes, how old, how old are you?
3:21:48 > 3:21:50MAN MUTTERS
3:21:50 > 3:21:54It's not that difficult a question, sir.
3:21:54 > 3:21:57You're no' trying to buy bevvy here. Just answer.
3:21:57 > 3:22:00Try and remember a date of... How old are you?
3:22:00 > 3:22:0320? 22. Is that young in Scotland?
3:22:03 > 3:22:07Have you checked the life expectancy figures?
3:22:07 > 3:22:10Have we got any 16-year-olds in?
3:22:10 > 3:22:13Yes. Well, I don't mean to sound a bit fucking creepy there.
3:22:14 > 3:22:17- AUSTRALIAN ACCENT:- "Can you tell what it is yet?"
3:22:17 > 3:22:18I don't mean to sound like that!
3:22:18 > 3:22:22LAUGHTER
3:22:22 > 3:22:23I just realised,
3:22:23 > 3:22:27when you hear yourself shouting "Have we got any 16-year-olds in?"
3:22:27 > 3:22:30Ah, it's going to be a record number of spoilt ballot papers
3:22:30 > 3:22:32if they're letting 16-year-olds vote.
3:22:32 > 3:22:36People going through them - "Nicola Sturgeon loves the boabie."
3:22:43 > 3:22:46"We'll put that as a no. I'll call that a no."
3:22:49 > 3:22:52See the likes of the 16-year-olds that are getting the vote,
3:22:52 > 3:22:53and there's a lot of people saying
3:22:53 > 3:22:57"Oh, I think it's ridiculous giving a 16-year-old the vote."
3:22:57 > 3:23:00Well, I don't because there'll be 16-year-olds that couldn't
3:23:00 > 3:23:04have cared less anyway, and the ones that could care,
3:23:04 > 3:23:08they'll take an interest and they'll be influenced by, you know,
3:23:08 > 3:23:11what their parents are saying, what their teachers are saying.
3:23:11 > 3:23:13You think it's good that it'll create young people
3:23:13 > 3:23:15- with a social conscience? - Definitely.
3:23:15 > 3:23:19- Regardless of what happens, that's been a positive?- Yep, definitely.
3:23:19 > 3:23:22Do you think I was responsible enough to make a vote at 16?
3:23:22 > 3:23:24Well, I would take you out of the picture all together.
3:23:24 > 3:23:27I was on the school council. I got voted in.
3:23:27 > 3:23:29- And your maw got sent for. - And I got...
3:23:29 > 3:23:31You had to go for a meeting at the school
3:23:31 > 3:23:34- cos I brought the meeting into disrepute.- Yes, exactly.
3:23:34 > 3:23:36Maybe I was a bit immature but... other 16-year-olds.
3:23:36 > 3:23:39Definitely, I mean, I know loads of 16-year-olds
3:23:39 > 3:23:44that would be mature enough to make, you know, good decisions.
3:23:44 > 3:23:48In this referendum campaign, when the Scottish people have been told
3:23:48 > 3:23:51"This won't be allowed to happen, you won't be allowed this,"
3:23:51 > 3:23:55- that's almost spiked an upsurge or a resistance.- Yes, of course.
3:23:55 > 3:23:58For example, when we're told that an independent Scotland
3:23:58 > 3:24:00would not be allowed to enter into a currency union
3:24:00 > 3:24:03with the rest of the UK, what do you say back to that?
3:24:03 > 3:24:08I would drop the D from the pound, right, and call it the poun',
3:24:08 > 3:24:13and I would move our financial centre to Stirling.
3:24:13 > 3:24:14So it's the poun' Stirling.
3:24:14 > 3:24:19Poun Stirling. Cause total confusion in the global markets.
3:24:19 > 3:24:23What a reply. Where was Alex Salmond on that reply?
3:24:23 > 3:24:28Aye, well, I'll probably get a phone call from him once he sees the show.
3:24:28 > 3:24:32People have got their concerns, obviously the economic argument.
3:24:32 > 3:24:35An independent Scotland will not be allowed to enter
3:24:35 > 3:24:37into a currency union with the UK.
3:24:37 > 3:24:41We've been told that. We could maybe start our own money.
3:24:41 > 3:24:44I was getting fed up with the pound anyway. The sterling.
3:24:44 > 3:24:48Who even calls it the pound? It's a quid or a smackeroony.
3:24:48 > 3:24:50That could be the currency.
3:24:50 > 3:24:53How hard is it to start your own currency? A smackeroony.
3:24:53 > 3:24:55That could be it.
3:24:55 > 3:24:58Oh, you could be in a recession if your currency's a smackeroony,
3:24:58 > 3:25:01but never a depression. It would cheer you up.
3:25:01 > 3:25:04"Give them my last five smackeroonies."
3:25:07 > 3:25:09You could rack up a crippling debt.
3:25:09 > 3:25:11The International Monetary Fund could announce
3:25:11 > 3:25:13the independent nation of Scotland
3:25:13 > 3:25:17is running at a 200 billion smackeroony deficit.
3:25:17 > 3:25:19Just use it as a deflection tactic.
3:25:19 > 3:25:22"What was that, mate? 200 billion what?"
3:25:22 > 3:25:27"Smackeroonies? Aye, bet you wish you used the smackeroony, eh?
3:25:27 > 3:25:30"You'll fucking get your money, mate."
3:25:36 > 3:25:39How do you think it's going to go on September the 18th?
3:25:39 > 3:25:43My heart says yes. Definite yes.
3:25:43 > 3:25:46My head says don't know, maybe.
3:25:46 > 3:25:48I firmly believe...
3:25:48 > 3:25:52I believe in the people of Scotland that
3:25:52 > 3:25:55they want to see more equality.
3:25:55 > 3:26:01I'm hopeful for a yes. Judging by the people that I've spoke to.
3:26:01 > 3:26:03And Mum?
3:26:03 > 3:26:07I think it will be a no, judging on it by the people I've spoke to.
3:26:07 > 3:26:10So yous are no longer speaking to the same people. Swingers!
3:26:10 > 3:26:14Are you maybe just ignoring the people that are saying no?
3:26:14 > 3:26:16That's a possibility, Kevin.
3:26:16 > 3:26:21I don't think Dad gives them a chance to get a word in sideways.
3:26:21 > 3:26:25Mum, Dad, thanks, as always, for being there
3:26:25 > 3:26:28when I've needed some information, needed some guidance.
3:26:28 > 3:26:31- You're very welcome, Kevin.- Aye.
3:26:31 > 3:26:33By speaking to my mum and dad, I'd wanted to get a sense
3:26:33 > 3:26:37of how their generation felt about independence.
3:26:37 > 3:26:41But something my mum said really stuck in my head.
3:26:41 > 3:26:43The people who'll be affected by this vote in the longer term
3:26:43 > 3:26:46belong to another age group entirely.
3:26:49 > 3:26:51One of the big factors in this referendum
3:26:51 > 3:26:53is that people as young as 16 years old
3:26:53 > 3:26:56will be allowed to vote for the very first time.
3:26:56 > 3:26:59I'm here in Edinburgh, the seat of Scotland's devolved government,
3:26:59 > 3:27:02to meet some of the members of the Scottish Youth Parliament.
3:27:04 > 3:27:05All right?
3:27:05 > 3:27:07Good afternoon.
3:27:07 > 3:27:09The Scottish Youth Parliament.
3:27:09 > 3:27:12Thanks for having me here, erm, keeping me a seat as well.
3:27:12 > 3:27:14That's appreciated.
3:27:14 > 3:27:17So everybody here's a member of the Scot... MSYP, is that right? Yep.
3:27:17 > 3:27:20Sounds like a gang, doesn't it? "MSYP, ya bas."
3:27:20 > 3:27:24Do you ever go and graffiti that anywhere? No? OK.
3:27:24 > 3:27:27The reason we're speaking is, obviously it's the big year of
3:27:27 > 3:27:29- the referendum and are young people engaged?- Absolutely.
3:27:29 > 3:27:32The young people are just so excited about the opportunity to participate,
3:27:32 > 3:27:35to engage in what is going to be one of the most important votes
3:27:35 > 3:27:38in their lives. And it's really good to see big groups of young people
3:27:38 > 3:27:41having these sorts of mature, interesting discussions.
3:27:41 > 3:27:43Do you think their parents will influence a lot of how they vote,
3:27:43 > 3:27:46or do you think at 16 people are going to make their own choice?
3:27:46 > 3:27:49Some of the work that we're trying to do is encouraging young people
3:27:49 > 3:27:52to go out there and find their own kind of decision,
3:27:52 > 3:27:55and make their own decision and go out and find the information
3:27:55 > 3:27:58and make an informed decision on what they think is right,
3:27:58 > 3:28:01rather than picking up on what their friends or parents are saying.
3:28:01 > 3:28:04- Yep.- It's their vote, therefore it should be what they think is right.
3:28:04 > 3:28:07So you think most 16-year-olds are going to vote, they're going to take
3:28:07 > 3:28:10this opportunity? Do you think there's going to be a high turnout
3:28:10 > 3:28:13- in terms of the youth?- We definitely hope so because a lot of our work
3:28:13 > 3:28:16involves making sure that young people are taking the opportunities
3:28:16 > 3:28:19that are presented to them. So it's not something they should turn down.
3:28:19 > 3:28:23OK. Do you think people are maybe affected by social media?
3:28:23 > 3:28:25By, like, blog sites and Facebook and Twitter.
3:28:25 > 3:28:28Is that playing a big part in where people are obtaining their facts
3:28:28 > 3:28:30and figures, and stuff they can base a decision on?
3:28:30 > 3:28:33Because the social media's a personal side, it's made the debate
3:28:33 > 3:28:36more accessible. The young people can directly tweet the First Minister
3:28:36 > 3:28:39or whoever and they can get a reply straightaway.
3:28:39 > 3:28:41I can only picture myself as a 16-year-old.
3:28:41 > 3:28:43I don't know if I was mature enough.
3:28:43 > 3:28:46I was elected onto the school council but only because people knew
3:28:46 > 3:28:49it would be a bit of a laugh and I suggested things like
3:28:49 > 3:28:50complementary mints in the toilets
3:28:50 > 3:28:53and having a guy giving out aftershave.
3:28:53 > 3:28:57That's how serious I took my duties. What other factors are young people
3:28:57 > 3:28:59considering before they vote, from your findings?
3:28:59 > 3:29:02We do have the big ones like employment, but what's great about
3:29:02 > 3:29:05the referendum is there's so much coverage of it, the young people
3:29:05 > 3:29:07are getting to know more about politics, so I've had people
3:29:07 > 3:29:10about 13 year old talking to me about what will defence be like?
3:29:10 > 3:29:11Will Scotland have its own army?
3:29:11 > 3:29:14What will it be like in the United Kingdom? So it's been really great
3:29:14 > 3:29:17for getting people interested in politics and wanting to find out
3:29:17 > 3:29:20more about things that affect them, like the NHS.
3:29:20 > 3:29:22And is there a reason this has been the first ever referendum
3:29:22 > 3:29:25where people as young as yourself, Wing, are allowed to vote?
3:29:25 > 3:29:28- Why do you think that is? - We're allowed to have children
3:29:28 > 3:29:30at this age. We're allowed to leave school. Why can't we vote?
3:29:30 > 3:29:33Why can't we have a say in what's our future plans of this country?
3:29:33 > 3:29:37Why? I just don't understand. I mean, it's just logic. It's...
3:29:37 > 3:29:38Yep, I totally agree.
3:29:38 > 3:29:40APPLAUSE
3:29:40 > 3:29:43As soon as you tell 16-year-olds they can do something legally,
3:29:43 > 3:29:45the novelty's gone. They no longer want to do it.
3:29:45 > 3:29:48I preferred back in the day when you couldn't vote at 16.
3:29:48 > 3:29:51Remember that? Under-age voting. They were the days.
3:29:53 > 3:29:56When you used to hang out outside the polling station.
3:29:57 > 3:30:01Waiting for an old guy, ask him if he'll go in and vote for you.
3:30:03 > 3:30:04The memories.
3:30:05 > 3:30:09I would go, "Excuse me, mate, any chance you could vote for us?"
3:30:09 > 3:30:11Old guy's looking about kind of shifty.
3:30:11 > 3:30:14"All right, mate, what you after?" Getting home to your mum and dad
3:30:14 > 3:30:18and they're going, "You've been fucking voting."
3:30:18 > 3:30:20"Don't lie to me, Kevin, you've been voting!
3:30:20 > 3:30:23"If I find out and you're not telling me now
3:30:23 > 3:30:24"I'll be even angrier!"
3:30:24 > 3:30:27"Honestly, Dad, I've not been voting."
3:30:27 > 3:30:31"You're going to end up like your cousin Fraser, a prick.
3:30:31 > 3:30:34"It's a slippery slope, this politics."
3:30:35 > 3:30:38Do you find that the people involved in your side of the campaign,
3:30:38 > 3:30:40are they aware how crucial it is?
3:30:40 > 3:30:43I think the onus is on both sides of the campaign
3:30:43 > 3:30:44to engage with young people.
3:30:44 > 3:30:48I think that they have been and I think that we, as a youth parliament,
3:30:48 > 3:30:50have been creating platforms for that to happen,
3:30:50 > 3:30:51other organisations across the country.
3:30:51 > 3:30:54I think that there's more that both campaigns can do
3:30:54 > 3:30:56to engage and inspire young people.
3:30:56 > 3:30:58And do you notice any trends in how young people are voting?
3:30:58 > 3:31:01Is it favouring a particular side? You don't need to say which side,
3:31:01 > 3:31:03I don't want you getting sacked from your role.
3:31:03 > 3:31:04I think it's really hard
3:31:04 > 3:31:07to look at the polls, cos they all say a different thing.
3:31:07 > 3:31:09I think the most important poll's on the 18th September.
3:31:09 > 3:31:11What an answer.
3:31:12 > 3:31:14So you don't think either side is going to benefit
3:31:14 > 3:31:16from having 16-year-olds vote?
3:31:16 > 3:31:1816-year-olds - that's the people
3:31:18 > 3:31:20who are going to benefit for having the vote.
3:31:20 > 3:31:22I think for the first time ever, they're going to be inspired
3:31:22 > 3:31:25and empowered to have that debate, decision and opportunity,
3:31:25 > 3:31:28and I'm sure that young people, having used it for the first time,
3:31:28 > 3:31:30will say, "I want that again. I want to have that power,"
3:31:30 > 3:31:33and I'm confident that we'll get that in the near future.
3:31:33 > 3:31:35I think it's a good message you're putting across,
3:31:35 > 3:31:37that 16-year-olds should see how historical
3:31:37 > 3:31:40and how big an opportunity it is to get there and have your voice heard.
3:31:40 > 3:31:42Thanks for talking to me.
3:31:42 > 3:31:44- ALL: Thank you. - It's been a pleasure.
3:31:44 > 3:31:48We better take these seats back before the jannie goes mental.
3:31:48 > 3:31:50The youngsters of the Scottish Youth Parliament
3:31:50 > 3:31:52seemed to have mastered the politician's trick
3:31:52 > 3:31:56of answering a question without actually answering a question.
3:31:56 > 3:31:58However, it was great to see them so engaged.
3:31:58 > 3:31:59Since I was in Edinburgh,
3:31:59 > 3:32:01the home of Britain's biggest comedy festival,
3:32:01 > 3:32:05I felt it was time for some more referendum-based patter.
3:32:05 > 3:32:08They're having an independence referendum up here. Everybody...
3:32:08 > 3:32:10Everybody's talking about it.
3:32:10 > 3:32:12Whatever happens in September, I reckon the whole...
3:32:12 > 3:32:15the whole country could go and re-sit their higher modern studies.
3:32:15 > 3:32:17There's people who are clued up.
3:32:17 > 3:32:20We should have it every four years. Just keep having referendums.
3:32:20 > 3:32:23That's what will get Scottish people through a World Cup.
3:32:23 > 3:32:25Just a referendum. Something to talk about.
3:32:25 > 3:32:28And then the year England win it, that's when we go independent.
3:32:28 > 3:32:30That's the way. That's the fuel.
3:32:31 > 3:32:33Now, that's when you see debates -
3:32:33 > 3:32:36six in the morning, in house parties.
3:32:36 > 3:32:40Guys lighting a fag off a toaster, giving their tuppence-worth.
3:32:44 > 3:32:46"See if we vote no, mate, we're like...
3:32:46 > 3:32:48"we're like Rihanna getting back with Chris Brown, mate.
3:32:48 > 3:32:49"That's us."
3:32:51 > 3:32:54That's the kind of stuff Alex Salmond needs to say
3:32:54 > 3:32:57to really capture the mood in the nation on that leadership debate.
3:32:57 > 3:32:59Just start calling them a shitebag and stuff.
3:33:01 > 3:33:03"Oh, but the economic risks."
3:33:03 > 3:33:04- "What about them?" - HE IMITATES CHICKEN
3:33:04 > 3:33:06"Shitebag!"
3:33:08 > 3:33:10That's what he needs.
3:33:14 > 3:33:17It will win the people's hearts if he'd done that.
3:33:17 > 3:33:19- Just... - HE IMITATES CHICKEN
3:33:19 > 3:33:21Maybe throw him a wee dummy punch
3:33:21 > 3:33:22just to make them flinch on the telly.
3:33:24 > 3:33:26"Nae currency union, ya bam!"
3:33:35 > 3:33:36What mattered to me now
3:33:36 > 3:33:39was to hear from quite a different collection of voices,
3:33:39 > 3:33:41so I headed back west.
3:33:41 > 3:33:44Perhaps nowhere symbolises the decline of heavy industry
3:33:44 > 3:33:46and the social and economic impact
3:33:46 > 3:33:49than the historic ship-building area of Govan.
3:33:51 > 3:33:54A local radio station kindly invited me to take part
3:33:54 > 3:33:56in a live phone-in to hear what their listeners
3:33:56 > 3:33:58had to say about it all.
3:34:00 > 3:34:03Heather, thanks a lot for having me in to Sunny Govan.
3:34:03 > 3:34:04- Sunny G, should I say?- Sunny G.
3:34:04 > 3:34:07- That's what the kids are calling it. - Yep.- I've raised some profile there.
3:34:07 > 3:34:10We've got four people standing outside with camera phones so...
3:34:10 > 3:34:12Hope you enjoy your morning with us.
3:34:12 > 3:34:13Thank a lot. Thanks again for having us.
3:34:13 > 3:34:16- Take care.- Cheers, Heather.
3:34:16 > 3:34:17OK, Glasgow city,
3:34:17 > 3:34:19it gives me great pleasure to bring to the studio
3:34:19 > 3:34:22the one and only Kevin Bridges. Yas!
3:34:22 > 3:34:23So, Kevin, what you been up to?
3:34:23 > 3:34:26We're filming a documentary. I've went all serious.
3:34:26 > 3:34:29- It's about the Scottish independence referendum.- Right.
3:34:29 > 3:34:31We thought we'd come to Sunny Govan to hear your listeners,
3:34:31 > 3:34:34what they reckon - yes, no, undecided, whatever.
3:34:34 > 3:34:36Tony's on the phone. How are you doing, Tony?
3:34:36 > 3:34:38I've got an opinion I'd like to express
3:34:38 > 3:34:41that I think it would be the best thing ever for Scotland,
3:34:41 > 3:34:44because the things that we've got are under threat -
3:34:44 > 3:34:46I think we will lose our free prescriptions,
3:34:46 > 3:34:48I think we will lose funding
3:34:48 > 3:34:53and I think we will be much worse off should there be a no vote.
3:34:53 > 3:34:55- OK. That's excellent. - Thank you very, very much for that.
3:34:55 > 3:34:57Appreciate your points.
3:34:57 > 3:34:59Debbie, you're through to Kevin.
3:34:59 > 3:35:01I'm going to vote no.
3:35:01 > 3:35:05The only reason - I don't think we're prepared for it yet.
3:35:05 > 3:35:08I think we should maybe wait and come back in another five year.
3:35:08 > 3:35:10That's my view. I just say no and that's it.
3:35:10 > 3:35:13So we're going to have a referendum in 2019?
3:35:13 > 3:35:14- Just for Debbie.- Just for Debbie.
3:35:14 > 3:35:20- Why not?- So what would need to happen in the next five years?
3:35:20 > 3:35:21I don't know.
3:35:21 > 3:35:23That's it, see - there's too many people,
3:35:23 > 3:35:26too many politicians and stuff just tell lies and tell you things
3:35:26 > 3:35:28just so they can get votes.
3:35:28 > 3:35:30So I don't think you can really trust anybody at the moment.
3:35:30 > 3:35:32There is a lack of trust.
3:35:32 > 3:35:36People are finding it hard to relate to any mainstream politicians.
3:35:36 > 3:35:38I don't think we can trust a lot of people at the moment,
3:35:38 > 3:35:40so that's why I'm voting no at the moment.
3:35:40 > 3:35:43I think it comes back to maybe the fear.
3:35:43 > 3:35:44Yeah, of course.
3:35:44 > 3:35:47That's a future for a lot of kids growing up and stuff.
3:35:47 > 3:35:50I don't want them to end up worse off than what we are at the moment.
3:35:50 > 3:35:53- OK.- But anyway, I'm heading to the Wickerman Festival.
3:35:53 > 3:35:55- You have a belter.- Enjoy, Debbie.
3:35:55 > 3:35:58- The weather's going to be brilliant. - Leaving in a couple of hours' time.
3:35:58 > 3:36:00- We'll speak to you again in five years.- Cheers.
3:36:00 > 3:36:02It will take Debbie five years to recover from Wickerman.
3:36:02 > 3:36:04Thanks very much for that, Debbie.
3:36:04 > 3:36:07Excellent. Kevin Bridges, it's been a pleasure. See you soon.
3:36:09 > 3:36:11I'd come to Govan and the radio phone-in
3:36:11 > 3:36:13to hear just what a range of opinions are out there,
3:36:13 > 3:36:15and I discovered there are plenty.
3:36:18 > 3:36:21Hosting a live radio phone-in can be a risky affair,
3:36:21 > 3:36:23but it seemed to pass without incident.
3:36:24 > 3:36:26A long journey was in order to ponder over
3:36:26 > 3:36:27some of the opinions that I heard,
3:36:27 > 3:36:29so I chose to head north
3:36:29 > 3:36:31for a chance to hook up with a famous English musician
3:36:31 > 3:36:34who has very strong views on Scottish independence.
3:36:36 > 3:36:38This trip has taken me all over Scotland
3:36:38 > 3:36:41and today I'm in Inverness, the Highland capital,
3:36:41 > 3:36:42but not to talk to a Scot.
3:36:42 > 3:36:45Instead, I'm here to talk to one of the most iconic figures
3:36:45 > 3:36:48in British music and politics, Billy Bragg.
3:36:50 > 3:36:54Billy Bragg, thanks first of all for speaking to us.
3:36:54 > 3:36:58You've been quite vocal about your opinions on Scotland leaving the UK
3:36:58 > 3:37:01and you're very pro-Scottish independence.
3:37:01 > 3:37:04People will find it strange why somebody who can't vote
3:37:04 > 3:37:05is so passionate about it.
3:37:05 > 3:37:07Because it has ramifications for all of us
3:37:07 > 3:37:09- in the United Kingdom, I think, you know?- Yep.
3:37:09 > 3:37:13And it's better to look at the positive possibilities
3:37:13 > 3:37:18rather than bemoan the fact that, you know, it will be different.
3:37:18 > 3:37:20It will be... Change worries everybody.
3:37:20 > 3:37:23Change is always for people to be concerned about,
3:37:23 > 3:37:25but I think there's a lot of positives in this for all of us.
3:37:25 > 3:37:27I've got no vote, you know?
3:37:27 > 3:37:30I'm observing this from over the border,
3:37:30 > 3:37:33but I do think that we in England should be discussing it,
3:37:33 > 3:37:37should be talking about it, should be looking at the ramifications of it,
3:37:37 > 3:37:38if only to understand
3:37:38 > 3:37:43what a modern, confident, post-imperial country looks like.
3:37:43 > 3:37:45People have presented that as a negative,
3:37:45 > 3:37:48that if Scotland goes, it paves the way to divide the rest of the UK,
3:37:48 > 3:37:51so you're the first person I've heard who's actually seen that as...
3:37:51 > 3:37:53How do you mean "divide the rest of the UK"?
3:37:53 > 3:37:56I think a looser federation and better devolution,
3:37:56 > 3:37:58the opportunity to open the whole thing up
3:37:58 > 3:38:02and sort of get the hood up on the British constitution
3:38:02 > 3:38:05and re-jig a few things so that everybody's vote counts
3:38:05 > 3:38:06is something we desperately need
3:38:06 > 3:38:08and the only real chance we're going to get
3:38:08 > 3:38:10in England and Wales and Northern Ireland
3:38:10 > 3:38:14is if you guys decide to become independent.
3:38:14 > 3:38:16So see beyond the Scotland, England, "Oh, they're leaving
3:38:16 > 3:38:18"because they don't like us and..."
3:38:18 > 3:38:21- Yeah.- It almost puts people down and makes them feel like xenophobes
3:38:21 > 3:38:24just because they want a bit of self-determination.
3:38:24 > 3:38:26I don't see any anti-Englishness
3:38:26 > 3:38:30in the Scottish referendum debate whatsoever, you know?
3:38:30 > 3:38:32I don't think that it's a huff,
3:38:32 > 3:38:35I don't think it's a rejection of the United Kingdom.
3:38:35 > 3:38:37I think it's a better way of doing things.
3:38:37 > 3:38:41The Scots have found that they can organise this better.
3:38:41 > 3:38:42Any Welsh in?
3:38:42 > 3:38:45Nope? Somebody said no. You've already asked.
3:38:47 > 3:38:50You've done that question in the foyer?
3:38:50 > 3:38:53Good to see somebody taking a census
3:38:53 > 3:38:55before taking their seat.
3:38:55 > 3:38:56Have we got...
3:38:56 > 3:38:59Have we got any English in?
3:38:59 > 3:39:01- Newcastle.- Newcastle? Right on the front line.
3:39:01 > 3:39:03That's the way it's going to be if we go ind...
3:39:03 > 3:39:05Corby - that'll be like Gibraltar.
3:39:07 > 3:39:10How do you feel about the independence referendum?
3:39:10 > 3:39:12I think we should get our own independence.
3:39:12 > 3:39:15You think Newcastle should go independent as well?
3:39:17 > 3:39:19WHOOPING AND APPLAUSE
3:39:22 > 3:39:24They're just taking a big saw to the UK.
3:39:26 > 3:39:28So to hear you coming on and putting such an
3:39:28 > 3:39:31informative argument forward,
3:39:31 > 3:39:33that's when celebrities should get involved.
3:39:33 > 3:39:36I saw the letter, the 200 celebrities...
3:39:36 > 3:39:40It's amazing that there could be a political petition that has both
3:39:40 > 3:39:42George Galloway and Sir Bruce Forsyth.
3:39:42 > 3:39:45How often do those two get together
3:39:45 > 3:39:47and what do they talk about, politically?
3:39:47 > 3:39:49But I was really, really disappointed by it,
3:39:49 > 3:39:51but most of all I was disappointed by their reason.
3:39:51 > 3:39:55Why did they want Scotland to stay within the UK?
3:39:55 > 3:39:58For Auld Lang Syne. You've always been around.
3:39:58 > 3:40:01They've absolutely no grasp about the possibilities of
3:40:01 > 3:40:05self-determination and the importance of accountability.
3:40:05 > 3:40:07They don't know what it's like to keep voting for one
3:40:07 > 3:40:10particular political party and getting stuck with the other one.
3:40:10 > 3:40:13Of course, if Scotland becomes independent there will be
3:40:13 > 3:40:14- unforeseen problems.- But...
3:40:14 > 3:40:17Don't walk into it expecting it's just, you're going to wake up one
3:40:17 > 3:40:20morning and it's going to be like, you know, sort of Bella Caledonia.
3:40:20 > 3:40:23So there's no shame in 50 years' time to have a referendum.
3:40:23 > 3:40:25"Please take us back. Sorry about all that."
3:40:25 > 3:40:26Who knows, in 50 years' time,
3:40:26 > 3:40:30we, you know, England might be saying, "Can we, can we come
3:40:30 > 3:40:32"and use the tartan pound?" or whatever you call it.
3:40:32 > 3:40:36This debate shows that there's a different side to Scotland.
3:40:36 > 3:40:39A forward-looking side to Scotland that, you know,
3:40:39 > 3:40:42instead of being the old enemy we might become the new mate.
3:40:42 > 3:40:44So Scotland could be the trend-setters, almost, for this.
3:40:44 > 3:40:46Well, I think Scotland always have been.
3:40:46 > 3:40:49The thing about Scotland is because there's five million of you
3:40:49 > 3:40:50you've got a big enough tax base.
3:40:50 > 3:40:53It's really only Scotland who's big enough to stand up on its own
3:40:53 > 3:40:54to England and say, "You know what?
3:40:54 > 3:40:56"This has been really, really brilliant,
3:40:56 > 3:40:59"but I think I've got to, I think I'm going to move out."
3:40:59 > 3:41:01- Billy, it's been a pleasure talking to you.- See you, mate.
3:41:01 > 3:41:03- Good luck with the gig tonight. - Thanks, it will be fine.
3:41:03 > 3:41:05Any other English in?
3:41:05 > 3:41:06Yep, how are you feeling about it?
3:41:06 > 3:41:08Would you be sad to see Scotland go, sir?
3:41:08 > 3:41:09You couldn't give a fuck.
3:41:12 > 3:41:14And how's that supposed to make us feel?
3:41:16 > 3:41:19If you're undecided I reckon an English referendum
3:41:19 > 3:41:23on Scottish independence first would help you make a decision.
3:41:24 > 3:41:26If you want us to go, we're staying.
3:41:29 > 3:41:31They want us to stay, we're offski.
3:41:36 > 3:41:38Well, Billy put a lot of things into perspective there
3:41:38 > 3:41:42and helped me to look at certain issues afresh.
3:41:42 > 3:41:45That was going to come in handy, as next on my to-do list was to
3:41:45 > 3:41:47investigate one of the longest-running issues
3:41:47 > 3:41:49of the independence debate.
3:41:49 > 3:41:50Oil.
3:41:50 > 3:41:54And as luck would have it, a short trip from seeing Billy in Inverness
3:41:54 > 3:41:57took me up to Nigg, on the Cromarty Firth, where some of the huge rigs
3:41:57 > 3:42:02that pump oil and gas from under the North Sea get repaired.
3:42:02 > 3:42:04I got together a group of the workers here to get
3:42:04 > 3:42:07their take on this massive talking point.
3:42:07 > 3:42:09How you getting on? You all right?
3:42:09 > 3:42:12Thanks for coming out on this scorcher. Good to meet yous.
3:42:12 > 3:42:14How you getting on, man? You all right?
3:42:14 > 3:42:16I'd ask your names but then I'd feel like a supply teacher
3:42:16 > 3:42:18trying to remember them.
3:42:18 > 3:42:20You've only get one name to remember. I've got four, etc.
3:42:20 > 3:42:23We're obviously talking about the Scottish independence referendum.
3:42:23 > 3:42:25The oil has been a major talking point.
3:42:25 > 3:42:28One of the main arguments for Scottish independence
3:42:28 > 3:42:31is that if we went independent, the overwhelming majority of the
3:42:31 > 3:42:35UK's oil and gas revenue would be Scottish and we'd be loaded.
3:42:35 > 3:42:36Is that right?
3:42:36 > 3:42:40Well, it is going to be, the majority of the oil's is going to be
3:42:40 > 3:42:41in Scottish waters, that's for sure.
3:42:41 > 3:42:43We're going to benefit off it, greatly.
3:42:43 > 3:42:47This generation, the next generation, and generations to come.
3:42:47 > 3:42:49But not just with the direct financial gains we'll get
3:42:49 > 3:42:53immediately, but for what we can put away and put aside to help
3:42:53 > 3:42:56future generations when we're gone and the oil's gone.
3:42:56 > 3:42:59- The oil's going to finish eventually. - When?- Well, nobody can say when.
3:42:59 > 3:43:01It's declining, though, is that right?
3:43:01 > 3:43:03It's been declining since they discovered it in the '70s.
3:43:03 > 3:43:06"It's only going to last us ten years, so don't get excited,"
3:43:06 > 3:43:09- they said.- The oil is obviously very important to Scotland.
3:43:09 > 3:43:11I've heard a lot of people talk about it like it's a cherry on top
3:43:11 > 3:43:15of what we've got, but if we do become independent we're obviously
3:43:15 > 3:43:18going to have a huge deficit so it's going to be more than a cherry on
3:43:18 > 3:43:21top, cos we need that to service the debt, and a lot of people
3:43:21 > 3:43:25use Norway as an example but it was set up properly to start with.
3:43:25 > 3:43:26We're trying to...
3:43:26 > 3:43:29How do you mean set up properly? What was the difference?
3:43:29 > 3:43:32Norway ring-fenced theirs right from the very start.
3:43:32 > 3:43:34They made sure that they got everything right.
3:43:34 > 3:43:38Everything that went in or came out of the Norwegian sector,
3:43:38 > 3:43:41if they were putting rigs into the North Sea
3:43:41 > 3:43:44and into the Norwegian sector, it had to be built in Norway.
3:43:44 > 3:43:46We never went that way, we just went,
3:43:46 > 3:43:48"It's going to be a ten-year fix.
3:43:48 > 3:43:51"Let's get in and get out and that will be us finished."
3:43:51 > 3:43:53It's never too late to start, you know?
3:43:53 > 3:43:58We could then start planning for the future, but have a welfare system
3:43:58 > 3:44:02that is to the benefit of people rather than punishing people.
3:44:02 > 3:44:04We could build schools and hospitals
3:44:04 > 3:44:09and have the things that we really want to have in a fair society.
3:44:09 > 3:44:13It's all right saying that, but who do we give the money to?
3:44:13 > 3:44:15I mean, we've seen it first-hand.
3:44:15 > 3:44:18The trams in Edinburgh, the Scottish Parliament.
3:44:18 > 3:44:20You know, £40 million it starts off,
3:44:20 > 3:44:22it ends up at 400 million.
3:44:22 > 3:44:25We're going to make more money and give it to idiots to spend.
3:44:25 > 3:44:28Part of the problem, no matter whether we're yes or we're no
3:44:28 > 3:44:30is most of these politicians couldn't run a bath
3:44:30 > 3:44:32- never mind a country. - Well, I agree there.
3:44:32 > 3:44:36So whether we're independent or not, you're still going to have
3:44:36 > 3:44:40ten dozen muppets sitting in Edinburgh trying to run the country.
3:44:40 > 3:44:43Right, but would you not rather have a Scotsman making the decision
3:44:43 > 3:44:45for people in Scotland rather than a guy from London
3:44:45 > 3:44:47who flies up here once...
3:44:47 > 3:44:49Your own idiots spending the money, is basically what you're saying.
3:44:49 > 3:44:52To be fair, if we're going independent this is the other
3:44:52 > 3:44:56argument I have against voting yes, and I've not decided what I'm going
3:44:56 > 3:44:59to do, is if I go independent I want all my own stuff, you know?
3:44:59 > 3:45:01I want my own toys, I want my own money. I want...
3:45:01 > 3:45:03But that's where the negotiation comes in.
3:45:03 > 3:45:06We've got an 18-month negotiation period where we'll get to start
3:45:06 > 3:45:09sitting down, like adults, and they start talking about aliens
3:45:09 > 3:45:11and the left-hand side driving on the roads, right?
3:45:11 > 3:45:14And we're going to get these things ironed out.
3:45:14 > 3:45:17So, Graeme, is it something that's come up at work?
3:45:17 > 3:45:19Do people talk about this on the rigs and...?
3:45:19 > 3:45:21Yes, my boss is a yes man.
3:45:21 > 3:45:24I hear a lot of his side
3:45:24 > 3:45:27and the family at home who are leaning towards voting no.
3:45:27 > 3:45:29I'm hearing a lot from their side.
3:45:29 > 3:45:32I need to wait my while before I know what I'm doing.
3:45:32 > 3:45:33You're looking for an answer.
3:45:33 > 3:45:35Every vote counts so I'm looking for an answer.
3:45:35 > 3:45:39OK. You're obviously quite passionate about voting no.
3:45:39 > 3:45:42The opposite for you, Drew. Can you see anywhere he's coming from?
3:45:42 > 3:45:44Can you see anywhere he's coming from?
3:45:44 > 3:45:46Of course I can see the benefits.
3:45:46 > 3:45:48I understand the arguments.
3:45:48 > 3:45:49It's just...
3:45:49 > 3:45:51it's not going to change my mind.
3:45:51 > 3:45:53Right, so you just think this is it?
3:45:53 > 3:45:57Aye, yeah, I think where I am is where I'm going to be.
3:45:57 > 3:46:00You two need to go for a beer. Cool it off.
3:46:00 > 3:46:03Thanks for your time and good luck back off shore.
3:46:03 > 3:46:05Keep drilling that oil.
3:46:05 > 3:46:09LAUGHTER
3:46:09 > 3:46:13Alex Salmond, he is... People are finding it difficult to see past
3:46:13 > 3:46:15it's a decision between two guys.
3:46:15 > 3:46:17Alex Salmond and David Cameron,
3:46:17 > 3:46:19and they're both pretty difficult to like.
3:46:19 > 3:46:20They're difficult to warm to.
3:46:20 > 3:46:23Alex Salmond, he looks as if there's something else behind it.
3:46:23 > 3:46:25He looks as if maybe he got a knock-back
3:46:25 > 3:46:27off an English girl on holiday.
3:46:27 > 3:46:30LAUGHTER
3:46:30 > 3:46:33When he was 15, and she broke his heart
3:46:33 > 3:46:36and that's what's fuelled this entire campaign.
3:46:36 > 3:46:39The referendum's on a Thursday.
3:46:39 > 3:46:41That will be a horrible weekend for him if that's a no vote.
3:46:41 > 3:46:44He'll get spotted somewhere that Sunday night in Edinburgh,
3:46:44 > 3:46:48walking through with his shirt ripped, fucking steaming.
3:46:49 > 3:46:52Booting wing mirrors off cars.
3:46:53 > 3:46:55Claudia!
3:46:55 > 3:46:58You fucking cow!
3:47:00 > 3:47:02You got what you wanted.
3:47:04 > 3:47:06At least Alex Salmond looks like shite.
3:47:06 > 3:47:09I will say that for him. At least he looks terrible.
3:47:09 > 3:47:11David Cameron, he looks a bit fresh,
3:47:11 > 3:47:13for the amount he must have on his mind, if you're cutting
3:47:13 > 3:47:17the benefits of the poor and the taxes of the rich as easy as that.
3:47:17 > 3:47:18He doesn't look as if he's...
3:47:18 > 3:47:20He sleeps like a baby, that guy.
3:47:20 > 3:47:22His big fresh, steam-room face.
3:47:22 > 3:47:25He doesn't have dreams that he's getting chased
3:47:25 > 3:47:28and he cannae run and he's...
3:47:28 > 3:47:32he's shouting for help and his teeth are flying out.
3:47:32 > 3:47:35Waking his wife up, going, "Argh!"
3:47:37 > 3:47:39That's it, my surname's Cameron. That's what he said.
3:47:39 > 3:47:42I like his speeches, when he goes, "Scotland, I love Scotland.
3:47:42 > 3:47:45"You put the great in Great Britain. My surname's Cameron..."
3:47:45 > 3:47:49You can't just recklessly flaunt your surname like that...
3:47:49 > 3:47:52and not expect the inevitable interrogation.
3:47:52 > 3:47:54"Sorry, Prime Minister, you said your surname's Cameron there.
3:47:54 > 3:47:56"Do you know Ritchie Cameron?
3:47:58 > 3:48:01"Stevie Cameron? Sandra Cameron's boy?
3:48:01 > 3:48:03"No, no, sorry, mate. I just...
3:48:03 > 3:48:04"Anyway, continue.
3:48:04 > 3:48:06"Eh, Cammy boy, eh, surname's Cameron.
3:48:06 > 3:48:08"The Camzer, the Camzareto."
3:48:12 > 3:48:16I definitely felt it was worthwhile speaking to the oil workers there
3:48:16 > 3:48:19and interesting that they were split down the middle.
3:48:19 > 3:48:21It's becoming easier to see why there's still a huge group
3:48:21 > 3:48:23of voters who are still undecided.
3:48:23 > 3:48:26To reflect on what I'd learned so far,
3:48:26 > 3:48:29I thought it was time for an exotic foreign trip
3:48:29 > 3:48:31to Corby in the Midlands.
3:48:31 > 3:48:34You might not know it, but Corby is known as Little Scotland,
3:48:34 > 3:48:37thanks to the historical migration of workers from north
3:48:37 > 3:48:39of the border to the steelworks here.
3:48:39 > 3:48:42They recently held their own mock independence referendum
3:48:42 > 3:48:44and the result was a no.
3:48:44 > 3:48:47But I came here to see how the Scots down south feel
3:48:47 > 3:48:50about the real referendum on the 18th of September.
3:48:50 > 3:48:53Corby's known as Little Scotland. Is that right?
3:48:53 > 3:48:54That's it, that's right.
3:48:54 > 3:48:56By who? The people of Corby?
3:48:56 > 3:48:59- Aye, the people of Scotland as well. - By the whole of Britain, yeah.
3:48:59 > 3:49:01You had a referendum on independence.
3:49:01 > 3:49:03- It was a resounding no, then. - Definite.
3:49:03 > 3:49:05Was it seen as a bit of fun or was it taken...?
3:49:05 > 3:49:07I thought it was going to be seen as a bit of fun till
3:49:07 > 3:49:09I got the abuse about it.
3:49:09 > 3:49:11- You got abuse? - I got abuse, yeah.
3:49:11 > 3:49:13- How come?- What I actually said in the paper was
3:49:13 > 3:49:16if I lived in Scotland, and I had a vote,
3:49:16 > 3:49:19I would probably, after I'd looked at the facts,
3:49:19 > 3:49:21vote for independence.
3:49:21 > 3:49:22Well, that was it. They were...
3:49:22 > 3:49:25- "Go back to Scotland."- Right. - Yeah, oh, yeah.
3:49:25 > 3:49:28"Not shopping in your shop again." Stuff like that.
3:49:28 > 3:49:32- From who?- From Scots and English so I had both of them on me.
3:49:32 > 3:49:34For expressing your opinion?
3:49:34 > 3:49:36So does anybody want to buy a butcher's shop?
3:49:36 > 3:49:38THEY LAUGH
3:49:38 > 3:49:41The problem for me, you know, I'm undecided really,
3:49:41 > 3:49:43but I don't, you know, we're not getting a vote,
3:49:43 > 3:49:45and I think that's right because we don't live there
3:49:45 > 3:49:48and anything that comes out of this is not going to affect us.
3:49:48 > 3:49:51Would anybody be considering moving back if Scotland went...?
3:49:51 > 3:49:53I would move back tomorrow if I could take Corby
3:49:53 > 3:49:55- and put it back in... - The removal of Corby.
3:49:55 > 3:49:56Corby's a unique town.
3:49:56 > 3:49:59I mean, we've got Irish, Scots, English, Welsh
3:49:59 > 3:50:01and we're all living together in relative harmony.
3:50:01 > 3:50:04It is, it's like a big holiday resort. It's just like...
3:50:04 > 3:50:06- Everybody gets on. - Like Benidorm, innit?
3:50:06 > 3:50:09- Without the sea. - I wouldn't go that far.
3:50:09 > 3:50:10There's a few Madges about.
3:50:11 > 3:50:16Going back to the referendum, my problem is the currency union.
3:50:16 > 3:50:19If you're going to go independent and take the country forward,
3:50:19 > 3:50:21you'd need to have some sort of economy,
3:50:21 > 3:50:23and without a central banking system,
3:50:23 > 3:50:25that's going to be hard and that's my worry.
3:50:25 > 3:50:28What makes the pound English? Tell me that. I don't know.
3:50:28 > 3:50:31- Well, I think that's what Alex Salmond is saying...- Tell me what...
3:50:31 > 3:50:32Well, the Bank of England...
3:50:32 > 3:50:35We've got scaremongering.
3:50:35 > 3:50:38The tabloids I've seen today had Scotland can lose the royal family.
3:50:38 > 3:50:40That's got to be nonsense.
3:50:40 > 3:50:42We could get our own royal family.
3:50:42 > 3:50:44THEY LAUGH
3:50:44 > 3:50:46What's the big questions?
3:50:46 > 3:50:48Will Scotland...? Will we keep the royal family as the head of state?
3:50:48 > 3:50:51I reckon we could get our own royal family.
3:50:51 > 3:50:54Just a royal family that makes some money.
3:50:54 > 3:50:56You know, we could have like a lottery. You buy a ticket.
3:50:56 > 3:50:59Everybody, the whole nation is entered into a draw
3:50:59 > 3:51:03and you can win the chance to be the Scottish royal family.
3:51:03 > 3:51:06It'd be great. Just pulling...
3:51:06 > 3:51:08It doesn't matter where you're from or your background.
3:51:08 > 3:51:11"Here we go, the king is Eddie McCabe from...
3:51:13 > 3:51:16"..from 22/4 Seamill View.
3:51:16 > 3:51:20"22/4, does that mean the king's living in a flat?
3:51:20 > 3:51:22"He fucking won it. There he is."
3:51:23 > 3:51:26Royalists outside his flat, looking up,
3:51:26 > 3:51:28seeing if they can catch a glimpse of the king.
3:51:28 > 3:51:29There he is, 22.
3:51:29 > 3:51:3119, 20, 21, 22, his curtains are open.
3:51:31 > 3:51:33He's in. He's in.
3:51:33 > 3:51:37Oh, no, I heard they went to her maw's caravan for the weekend.
3:51:40 > 3:51:41I think Scotland's quite affluent.
3:51:41 > 3:51:45And as a part of the UK, it's got a good health system
3:51:45 > 3:51:48and a good education system but it's got that being part of the UK.
3:51:48 > 3:51:49And I think what we'd have to do down here
3:51:49 > 3:51:51is we have to match what Scotland's doing.
3:51:51 > 3:51:54The English have to match what Scotland's doing. The poor Welsh.
3:51:54 > 3:51:56I mean, they tell you can't get a hip operation in...
3:51:56 > 3:51:59or anything in Wales. I know they don't, they need a lot...
3:51:59 > 3:52:01Is that true? You cannae get a hip operation in Wales?
3:52:01 > 3:52:03- Apparently.- Is that a fact?
3:52:03 > 3:52:04I don't know if it's a fact.
3:52:04 > 3:52:06Is that a historical...?
3:52:06 > 3:52:07Welcome to Wales.
3:52:07 > 3:52:10If you want a hip operation, you've come to the wrong place.
3:52:10 > 3:52:13You go to Glasgow. Go to Glasgow.
3:52:13 > 3:52:15No' that I need a hip operation but...
3:52:15 > 3:52:16You don't need a new hip, Stevie.
3:52:16 > 3:52:18But I think, I think they want to take...
3:52:18 > 3:52:21The rest of Britain wants to take an example of what Scotland's did.
3:52:21 > 3:52:23So you think it would be good for Scotland to go independent
3:52:23 > 3:52:25but bad for the rest of the UK?
3:52:25 > 3:52:27I don't actually think it would be good for Scotland.
3:52:27 > 3:52:30I think the reason they've did that is because they're part of the UK.
3:52:30 > 3:52:31And what I'm saying is the UK,
3:52:31 > 3:52:34the rest of the UK could learn off of what Scotland's done.
3:52:34 > 3:52:36Right, and what about you gentlemen? Do you share that view?
3:52:36 > 3:52:38I think you have to suck it and see and give it a go.
3:52:38 > 3:52:41You know, it's like you do, don't you?
3:52:41 > 3:52:43I've not seen any posters saying...
3:52:43 > 3:52:46"Vote yes. Suck it and see."
3:52:46 > 3:52:48With your face on it.
3:52:48 > 3:52:52You should go to people's doors. "How you doing? Suck it and see."
3:52:52 > 3:52:54How do you think it's going to go?
3:52:54 > 3:52:56- I don't think it will... - You don't see it...?- No.
3:52:56 > 3:52:58- No?- It won't go independent.
3:52:58 > 3:52:59OK. What about you?
3:52:59 > 3:53:01Yeah, I think it... I think they have to.
3:53:01 > 3:53:04In a way, I think, you know, just stand on their own two feet.
3:53:04 > 3:53:06I think, it's what you need to do.
3:53:06 > 3:53:08I mean, it's like the education thing.
3:53:08 > 3:53:10The prescriptions, like, you know,
3:53:10 > 3:53:13loads and loads of things like that. It's like...
3:53:13 > 3:53:15- There's a bit of equality there? - There is, yeah.
3:53:15 > 3:53:18How do you think...? Do you think it's going to be a no, then?
3:53:18 > 3:53:20- Definitely a no.- Definitely? - Definitely.
3:53:20 > 3:53:22- And you?- My heart says yeah, but I don't think it's going to happen.
3:53:22 > 3:53:24Purely for the fact that Salmond's...
3:53:24 > 3:53:28- There's no transparency when it comes to that...- Yep.- ..currency union
3:53:28 > 3:53:30Four empty pint glasses.
3:53:30 > 3:53:33Thanks for talking politics there.
3:53:33 > 3:53:36Hope that wasn't too heavy. I'll let yous get another round in.
3:53:36 > 3:53:39Stevie, cheers for having us in the pub. All right. Cheers.
3:53:39 > 3:53:42- Nice one.- Cheers, Kevin. - Cheers, mate. Cheers, Stevie.
3:53:42 > 3:53:43Anybody else got an opinion on it?
3:53:43 > 3:53:45Big guy at the end there, what's your name?
3:53:45 > 3:53:47Sipping your water there.
3:53:47 > 3:53:48Ian.
3:53:48 > 3:53:51Ian. Is there a satellite delay link-up?
3:53:51 > 3:53:53What's the English guy's name?
3:53:53 > 3:53:54Gary.
3:53:54 > 3:53:57Gary. A slight delay. That was faster though.
3:53:57 > 3:53:59Do you understand the Scottish accent and stuff?
3:53:59 > 3:54:01Gary? We like the English.
3:54:01 > 3:54:04It's only small frustrations and it probably comes from ourselves
3:54:04 > 3:54:06like the accent, it does get frustrating.
3:54:06 > 3:54:08You know, when you travel. I was in a lift before.
3:54:08 > 3:54:12This was actually in Australia, so it's not really an English thing.
3:54:13 > 3:54:15Cos a Scottish accent...
3:54:15 > 3:54:17I was in a lift and a guy...
3:54:17 > 3:54:18I had a carton of Ribena.
3:54:18 > 3:54:23All right, I don't mind revealing that side of myself on stage.
3:54:23 > 3:54:24And the guy felt the need to comment on it
3:54:24 > 3:54:27and I almost ended up fighting with the guy.
3:54:27 > 3:54:29I was drinking Ribena. I'm not an aggressive person.
3:54:29 > 3:54:31It's just small talk that comes difficult
3:54:31 > 3:54:33when you've got a Scottish accent.
3:54:33 > 3:54:36He commented, he said, "Oh, Ribena."
3:54:36 > 3:54:39And I said, "Aye, party time."
3:54:41 > 3:54:43You know, like the way you say something
3:54:43 > 3:54:44that you would never have said
3:54:44 > 3:54:48if you knew you were going to have to repeat it about four times.
3:54:51 > 3:54:55He said, "What?" And I said, "Oh, party time."
3:54:55 > 3:54:57And he's going, "Patty toime?"
3:54:59 > 3:55:01And you start feeling your blood boiling.
3:55:01 > 3:55:04"I'm saying party time - with Ribena. A wee joke.
3:55:04 > 3:55:05"It's Ribena.
3:55:05 > 3:55:08"It's clearly not fucking party time.
3:55:08 > 3:55:11"That was my wee small-talk joke. Just smile, mate.
3:55:11 > 3:55:12"It's party time!"
3:55:12 > 3:55:16Smacking the side of his head with a carton of strawberry Ribena.
3:55:16 > 3:55:19The lift opens. Somebody thinks it's blood everywhere.
3:55:19 > 3:55:20"Party time."
3:55:23 > 3:55:26Speaking to Scots living in England was worth the trip.
3:55:26 > 3:55:28Their views seemed just as passionate
3:55:28 > 3:55:31as the views of us who have a vote on polling day.
3:55:31 > 3:55:34Now, what's the most Scottish event you can think of?
3:55:34 > 3:55:37Well, for a lot of people, it's the Highland Games.
3:55:37 > 3:55:39And these displays of patriotic pageantry
3:55:39 > 3:55:41are still the highlight of the year
3:55:41 > 3:55:44in towns and villages across the north of Scotland.
3:55:44 > 3:55:47I felt it was essential to drop in to one of these gatherings -
3:55:47 > 3:55:49not just to savour the atmosphere,
3:55:49 > 3:55:52but to get a feeling for the political mood.
3:55:54 > 3:55:58Lonach Highland Gathering is one of the country's most iconic.
3:55:58 > 3:56:00Not least for the historic dram stop,
3:56:00 > 3:56:02where the Highlanders partake of a glass of whisky
3:56:02 > 3:56:04at the grand house of a local businessman,
3:56:04 > 3:56:07Dr Richard Marsh, before the games begin.
3:56:07 > 3:56:09And I thought the host would be just the person
3:56:09 > 3:56:12to help me get closer to a complete collection of views
3:56:12 > 3:56:15to help me make up my own mind on independence.
3:56:15 > 3:56:17BAGPIPES PLAY
3:56:18 > 3:56:22So, Richard, first of all, thanks for having me in your house.
3:56:22 > 3:56:24- Your manor.- Well that's... It's just a house.
3:56:24 > 3:56:27- It's really just a house. - Well, thanks for having us.
3:56:27 > 3:56:29You don't sound like the chairman of the Highland Games.
3:56:29 > 3:56:31Can I mention that? Where is your accent from?
3:56:31 > 3:56:33I'm Scottish. I went to school in Cambridge.
3:56:33 > 3:56:36You just sound like an actor we've brought in. The BBC.
3:56:36 > 3:56:38An actor? Do you think I could act?
3:56:38 > 3:56:41Could I get a job on the stage please?
3:56:41 > 3:56:43So do you speak to the guys who are competing in the games
3:56:43 > 3:56:46and the pipers about the upcoming independence referendum?
3:56:46 > 3:56:49Certainly. We're putting up "No, Thanks" signs, or "Yes" signs,
3:56:49 > 3:56:50- depending on our persuasion.- Yep.
3:56:50 > 3:56:53My persuasion is, I'm firmly "No, Thanks"
3:56:53 > 3:56:56and there's a developing Anglophobia, which is a bit worrying.
3:56:56 > 3:56:58I mean, you know, I was driving to the airport the other day
3:56:58 > 3:57:01and there was a big sign that said "End British Rule".
3:57:01 > 3:57:03Well, we are all the British.
3:57:03 > 3:57:06I mean, from Truro to Thurso, we're all intermixed.
3:57:06 > 3:57:09We're all British and my view...
3:57:09 > 3:57:11Is that not specifically meaning Westminster?
3:57:11 > 3:57:14Well, it does, but in my view, Kevin,
3:57:14 > 3:57:18Scotland should be leading the UK, it shouldn't be leaving the UK.
3:57:18 > 3:57:22We produce more than our pro-rata share of Prime Minsters, Chancellors,
3:57:22 > 3:57:27you name it, government ministers, way above our population percentage.
3:57:27 > 3:57:29People say it's a head and heart thing.
3:57:29 > 3:57:32Well, yeah...
3:57:32 > 3:57:35Heart says, "Freedom!" and "Independence!"
3:57:35 > 3:57:37Independence is a lovely word.
3:57:37 > 3:57:38Yes is a lovely word.
3:57:38 > 3:57:40But when you really apply your head
3:57:40 > 3:57:43and think of what it does to Scotland, to separate,
3:57:43 > 3:57:49to tear yourself out of the most successful political and social union
3:57:49 > 3:57:53for 300 years of it, then you actually - your heart moves.
3:57:53 > 3:57:55My heart's... I love Scotland dearly,
3:57:55 > 3:57:58and my heart has moved from the sort of Mel Gibson, Braveheart,
3:57:58 > 3:58:01freedom, simplistic view
3:58:01 > 3:58:05to, I hope, a more sophisticated, if I may say, opinion,
3:58:05 > 3:58:06based on the facts.
3:58:06 > 3:58:08Well, to most people around the world,
3:58:08 > 3:58:12- they would associate Scotland with kilts, bagpipes, whiskies.- Yes.
3:58:12 > 3:58:14People would presume they'd be Yes voters
3:58:14 > 3:58:17because of the sort of Braveheart connection and the patriotism.
3:58:17 > 3:58:19A good percentage of those Highlanders we met this morning,
3:58:19 > 3:58:21and gave 150 drams to,
3:58:21 > 3:58:25are No voters because they love Scotland as much as the Yes people.
3:58:25 > 3:58:26I love Scotland passionately,
3:58:26 > 3:58:29but they've rationalised it, they've thought it through
3:58:29 > 3:58:31and they say, "No, it's not good for Scotland."
3:58:31 > 3:58:33We're getting more powers promised to us.
3:58:33 > 3:58:35We've got the 2012 Scottish Act.
3:58:35 > 3:58:37We are the most privileged part of the United Kingdom.
3:58:37 > 3:58:38And we want to give it up.
3:58:38 > 3:58:41But would that be an argument for Yes, though?
3:58:41 > 3:58:43No, because we are rich and wealthy
3:58:43 > 3:58:45BECAUSE we're part of the United Kingdom -
3:58:45 > 3:58:46not in spite of it, but because of it.
3:58:46 > 3:58:48But who's "we"?
3:58:48 > 3:58:49We, all of us.
3:58:49 > 3:58:52But there's people clearly in different situations.
3:58:52 > 3:58:55People in poverty and obviously there's food banks and...
3:58:55 > 3:58:57So people are clearly seeing that's a problem.
3:58:57 > 3:59:00If you leave - if you're worried about food banks and poverty,
3:59:00 > 3:59:02why would...my view, why would you go to a situation
3:59:02 > 3:59:03which actually makes us poorer?
3:59:03 > 3:59:05My problem is, what are we gaining?
3:59:05 > 3:59:06It doesn't make us more Scottish.
3:59:06 > 3:59:09Are we more Scottish because we've got a worse deal on the pound,
3:59:09 > 3:59:11a worse deal on the Queen, a worse deal on NATO,
3:59:11 > 3:59:14a worse deal on Europe? Are we more Scottish because of that?
3:59:14 > 3:59:15But is it about being Scottish?
3:59:15 > 3:59:17Is it not people wanting control of their own affairs?
3:59:17 > 3:59:20But as I said earlier, we should lead the UK,
3:59:20 > 3:59:23we shouldn't leave it. It's a wonderful country to live in,
3:59:23 > 3:59:25it's got so many benefits BECAUSE we're in the UK.
3:59:25 > 3:59:28It would be tragic, tragic, to throw that away
3:59:28 > 3:59:31and find ourselves struggling with pounds, with Europe,
3:59:31 > 3:59:34with NATO, with the Queen, with everything.
3:59:34 > 3:59:35You're voting No, then.
3:59:35 > 3:59:37- I'm voting No, sir. - September 18th.- Absolutely.
3:59:37 > 3:59:39If we vote No, we get more devolution
3:59:39 > 3:59:42- and we become proud of ourselves, as we should be.- OK.
3:59:42 > 3:59:45Well, thanks for talking, Richard. Thanks for having us over.
3:59:45 > 3:59:46Great pleasure.
3:59:46 > 3:59:49- What's your name, Geordie guy? - Andrew.- Andrew.
3:59:49 > 3:59:52Is there any fuel behind the Newcastle revolution?
3:59:52 > 3:59:54Is it just you?
3:59:54 > 3:59:56Just you. One guy. Andrew.
3:59:56 > 3:59:58Good man. Up there in the royal box.
3:59:58 > 4:00:01That's where King Eddie would be sat.
4:00:01 > 4:00:04That's where the Scottish royal family would be.
4:00:04 > 4:00:07The Scottish Royal Variety Performance. That would be great.
4:00:07 > 4:00:12Swedish House Mafia and DJ Tiesto headlining.
4:00:12 > 4:00:17Police warning about a dodgy batch of ecstasy circulating.
4:00:18 > 4:00:2014 arrests for minor offences
4:00:20 > 4:00:25after last Sunday's Scottish Royal Variety Performance.
4:00:25 > 4:00:28King Eddie claimed it was a great night,
4:00:28 > 4:00:29from what he can remember.
4:00:32 > 4:00:35Nobody gives or hears more opinions across the course of a day
4:00:35 > 4:00:37than a taxi driver.
4:00:38 > 4:00:40I found myself back in Glasgow city centre,
4:00:40 > 4:00:45and decided to flag a cab and hear what the mood was like.
4:00:45 > 4:00:49The mood, at least, according to the drivers' findings.
4:00:50 > 4:00:52- All right, mate? - Hi, Kevin, how are you doing?
4:00:52 > 4:00:53- Not bad.- Good, good.
4:00:53 > 4:00:56I'm not actually going anywhere in particular.
4:00:56 > 4:00:59- Oh, right.- But I've got 20 quid, so, how far will that get me?
4:00:59 > 4:01:02- That'll get you all the way, Kevin. All the way, mate.- All the way.
4:01:02 > 4:01:05- What's your name, mate? - My name's Davy.- Davy.- Uh-huh.
4:01:05 > 4:01:08- Course it is. That's just a name you get, surely...- A taxi name.
4:01:08 > 4:01:09..when you become a taxi driver.
4:01:09 > 4:01:12Davy, Stevie, or Tam.
4:01:12 > 4:01:14- Bobby.- Or Bobby.
4:01:14 > 4:01:16Bobby. The boaby - that's different.
4:01:16 > 4:01:19- I'm looking for 20 quid's worth of conversation.- Uh-huh.
4:01:19 > 4:01:23Incisive opinion on the upcoming independence referendum.
4:01:23 > 4:01:24Oh, aye, right.
4:01:24 > 4:01:28Cos you're a taxi driver. This is a mobile polling station.
4:01:28 > 4:01:30You're getting everybody's opinion,
4:01:30 > 4:01:33and it's only the taxi drivers' polls that I trust.
4:01:33 > 4:01:34What's the general consensus?
4:01:34 > 4:01:36Is it something that comes up in conversation?
4:01:36 > 4:01:39The general consensus is indifference.
4:01:39 > 4:01:42I find that people that come from down South here on business
4:01:42 > 4:01:47ask more about it. They're very, "No, we want you to stay,
4:01:47 > 4:01:49"we don't want you to go," and they're...
4:01:49 > 4:01:51Do you think they have their own interests?
4:01:51 > 4:01:53I think they're shiting themselves in case we go,
4:01:53 > 4:01:54you know what I mean? Just...
4:01:54 > 4:01:57It just seems to be going on forever, doesn't it?
4:01:57 > 4:01:58So people have become fed up?
4:01:58 > 4:01:59Fed up with it, yeah.
4:01:59 > 4:02:03With an overload of information, or is there a lack of information?
4:02:03 > 4:02:07A lack of information and also a kind of a lack of...
4:02:07 > 4:02:10almost who's telling the truth, you know?
4:02:10 > 4:02:12Do you think it will be a No vote because of that?
4:02:12 > 4:02:14- Because people will... - I don't know - at the moment
4:02:14 > 4:02:16the polls are all saying it's going to be a No vote
4:02:16 > 4:02:18and I think if you're a Don't Know
4:02:18 > 4:02:19and you're still a Don't Know on the 18th,
4:02:19 > 4:02:22you're going to err on the side of No, aren't you?
4:02:22 > 4:02:25Do you know, you would like... almost like an independent arbiter.
4:02:25 > 4:02:28You know, when somebody comes out with a statement, right -
4:02:28 > 4:02:31"We'll be in the euro and we'll stay in the euro."
4:02:31 > 4:02:33"No, no, no, yous might not get in the euro.
4:02:33 > 4:02:34"Yous might be kicked out of the euro."
4:02:34 > 4:02:36You'd like somebody to step in at that point
4:02:36 > 4:02:38to say, "Actually, the correct answer is..."
4:02:38 > 4:02:40You really don't know who's telling the truth.
4:02:40 > 4:02:42Do people need to be made aware that you're...
4:02:42 > 4:02:45if you're voting Yes, you're not actually voting for Alex Salmond?
4:02:45 > 4:02:48That's the thing, but, Kevin, even for my kind of...
4:02:48 > 4:02:50in this wee conversation we're having the now -
4:02:50 > 4:02:52at the moment I reckon I don't know.
4:02:52 > 4:02:56Erm... I'm a Don't Know, bordering on No at the present,
4:02:56 > 4:02:59and it is a totally selfish kind of point of view,
4:02:59 > 4:03:03because you're not voting for independence for just yourself.
4:03:03 > 4:03:05You're voting for future generations, et cetera.
4:03:05 > 4:03:08How do you picture a Scotland, if we did go independent
4:03:08 > 4:03:11September 19th, we wake up feeling a bit rough.
4:03:11 > 4:03:12"What have we done?
4:03:12 > 4:03:14"I don't believe what we done yesterday."
4:03:14 > 4:03:16How do you picture it?
4:03:16 > 4:03:18Well, you know that if we knock independence back,
4:03:18 > 4:03:21we're basically the first country that's going to say No.
4:03:21 > 4:03:23The country that shit themselves.
4:03:23 > 4:03:25The country that shat it.
4:03:25 > 4:03:27- The country that say No.- Scotland.
4:03:27 > 4:03:29Kevin, you've tore the arse out of this 20 quid.
4:03:29 > 4:03:31- That's your 20 quid well up, mate. - Oh, right.
4:03:31 > 4:03:33You should have left it at 19, and I could have gave you a tip
4:03:33 > 4:03:36- and felt better about it. - Don't eat yellow snow, there's a tip.
4:03:37 > 4:03:39Old taxi driver patter.
4:03:39 > 4:03:41- The banter!- Oh, the banter!
4:03:43 > 4:03:46Our foreign country, we could get our own plug sockets.
4:03:49 > 4:03:51A big...a big six-pronger. A big...
4:03:54 > 4:03:56A big, hideous monstrosity.
4:03:56 > 4:03:58A Scottish plug socket.
4:03:58 > 4:04:00It doubles up as a violent weapon.
4:04:02 > 4:04:04That's how we kick-start the economy.
4:04:04 > 4:04:08We sell plug sockets at the airports. International Arrivals -
4:04:08 > 4:04:09"You got your plug socket, mate?
4:04:09 > 4:04:12"No, that's three prongs. That's an English plug socket. This...
4:04:12 > 4:04:14"is a Scottish plug socket!"
4:04:14 > 4:04:17"Is it for an electrical appliance or self-defence, sir,
4:04:17 > 4:04:18"if you don't mind me asking?"
4:04:21 > 4:04:24My taxi fare seemed to have bought me a sense of apathy,
4:04:24 > 4:04:25fear and rumours.
4:04:25 > 4:04:28To be honest, I've spent 20 quid more wisely in the past.
4:04:28 > 4:04:31But what costs a bit more than 20 quid,
4:04:31 > 4:04:34as will its proposed replacement, is Trident,
4:04:34 > 4:04:38the submarine missile system that is Britain's sole nuclear deterrent.
4:04:38 > 4:04:42It's based at Faslane on the Clyde, a short drive from Glasgow.
4:04:42 > 4:04:45It's a huge issue in the independence debate.
4:04:45 > 4:04:48So another essential stopping point was the peace camp
4:04:48 > 4:04:50across from Faslane naval base.
4:04:50 > 4:04:52It's been a permanent fixture here in opposition
4:04:52 > 4:04:54to nuclear weapons for decades.
4:04:54 > 4:04:56I'm here at the Faslane Peace Camp
4:04:56 > 4:04:59to talk to the current residents to hear their views
4:04:59 > 4:05:02and whether or not they believe that independence for Scotland
4:05:02 > 4:05:06will deliver what they've been demanding for the last 32 years.
4:05:10 > 4:05:13How yous doing? It's good to be in a peace camp.
4:05:13 > 4:05:16What is it like living, living in a peace...
4:05:16 > 4:05:19- Pretty peaceful?- Yeah, I think people come here because they feel
4:05:19 > 4:05:21they want to make a change or they want to, you know,
4:05:21 > 4:05:24join something that's hopefully going to make a change.
4:05:24 > 4:05:27Yep, and what kind of activities, other than just being here...
4:05:27 > 4:05:29Would you go across to the base?
4:05:29 > 4:05:31Recently what's happened is the convoy,
4:05:31 > 4:05:34which brings up the nuclear warheads all the way from Aldermaston,
4:05:34 > 4:05:37all on our public roads, I might add, right through Glasgow.
4:05:37 > 4:05:39They bring them up to Coulport.
4:05:39 > 4:05:42There's a thing called Nukewatch, which again, they are a network
4:05:42 > 4:05:45of people all the way up and down the road, and obviously
4:05:45 > 4:05:47they watch Aldermaston and Burghfield and they can tell when
4:05:47 > 4:05:50the convoys are leaving and then we track them all the way up the road.
4:05:50 > 4:05:53So you can just tell by the activities, by looking into the...
4:05:53 > 4:05:55You can see the amount of trucks.
4:05:55 > 4:05:56I think it's something like 20 or 22 trucks.
4:05:56 > 4:05:58Does it frustrate you, the way
4:05:58 > 4:06:02peace camps like this would be portrayed in the mainstream media?
4:06:02 > 4:06:04People would use words like hippies or....
4:06:04 > 4:06:07Oh, most definitely, yeah, of course they're derogatory.
4:06:07 > 4:06:09You know, they'll say things that aren't nice,
4:06:09 > 4:06:13but the thing is nowadays, we don't get any media coverage whatsoever.
4:06:13 > 4:06:15Back in the day, there was a lot more numbers.
4:06:15 > 4:06:18The nuclear disarmament movement was much, much bigger, so again,
4:06:18 > 4:06:23if you have loads of people, then surely they should notice us.
4:06:23 > 4:06:25In terms of the Scottish independence referendum,
4:06:25 > 4:06:30the five of you, are you total anarchists, don't recognise any sort
4:06:30 > 4:06:35of politics, cock and balls on the ballot paper, or is it a Yes, No...?
4:06:35 > 4:06:38All my life I've been an anarchist but I've never voted in the system
4:06:38 > 4:06:41- but I'm going to vote this time. - Yep.- This independence referendum,
4:06:41 > 4:06:44if it offers an opportunity to get rid of them, whether they do or not,
4:06:44 > 4:06:45I'll vote for that opportunity.
4:06:45 > 4:06:48If Scotland does go independent from the UK,
4:06:48 > 4:06:50do you believe the nuclear missiles would be moved?
4:06:50 > 4:06:52How long would that take for Faslane...?
4:06:52 > 4:06:56It's not just a case of sending a van up and some bubble wrap and...
4:06:57 > 4:07:01In my opinion, I don't think we should hand the weapons over.
4:07:01 > 4:07:04To be honest, because that would be really irresponsible,
4:07:04 > 4:07:07to hand weapons over to somebody that might use them.
4:07:07 > 4:07:09I think we should decommission them ourselves.
4:07:09 > 4:07:13The whole Trident weapons system itself, we essentially,
4:07:13 > 4:07:15we don't own it. We can't deploy it ourselves anyhow.
4:07:15 > 4:07:17It's leased, and it's not only leased.
4:07:17 > 4:07:19We have to keep on buying into it,
4:07:19 > 4:07:21and because they make the changes in the...
4:07:21 > 4:07:24I mean, apparently there's a new Trident replacement system
4:07:24 > 4:07:26that's already had millions upon millions spent on it,
4:07:26 > 4:07:29which tells you something about the British government and...
4:07:29 > 4:07:31whether they're going to keep it or not.
4:07:31 > 4:07:34I think things like this are an issue
4:07:34 > 4:07:35for everybody all over the world,
4:07:35 > 4:07:40not just Scottish people or just people that live in this vicinity.
4:07:40 > 4:07:42These weapons affect everybody.
4:07:42 > 4:07:45Once we get independence there's no guarantee that we're going to
4:07:45 > 4:07:47stick with an SNP government.
4:07:47 > 4:07:49- To be honest, they become irrelevant...- Yep.
4:07:49 > 4:07:51..come independence, because what do they stand for then?
4:07:51 > 4:07:54There would obviously have to be a reshuffle down political lines,
4:07:54 > 4:07:57and any deals that were drawn up before independence,
4:07:57 > 4:07:59I don't think will be written in stone.
4:07:59 > 4:08:01Things can change, opinion can change.
4:08:01 > 4:08:03The time scale of how the weapons are removed,
4:08:03 > 4:08:05and whether we even remove them at all
4:08:05 > 4:08:07and hand them over could all change.
4:08:07 > 4:08:10Yep. It's been a pleasure. Visitors are well and truly welcome.
4:08:10 > 4:08:12I felt welcome.
4:08:12 > 4:08:16Total respect for your commitment to your beliefs
4:08:16 > 4:08:19and thanks for letting me come and see what goes on.
4:08:19 > 4:08:21- Thank you.- Thank you for coming.
4:08:22 > 4:08:26I was really struck by what the peace camp residents had to say,
4:08:26 > 4:08:30and how dedicated they were to the cause of nuclear disarmament.
4:08:30 > 4:08:33It was another integral part of my fact-finding journey
4:08:33 > 4:08:36and I'm glad to have spent some time with them.
4:08:36 > 4:08:39But now, I'm going back to my home town, Clydebank,
4:08:39 > 4:08:41where it all started.
4:08:41 > 4:08:43Where I met up with my mum and dad at the start of the show,
4:08:43 > 4:08:45many miles ago.
4:08:48 > 4:08:51As we come full circle, I'm going on a trip down the River Clyde
4:08:51 > 4:08:54with my childhood pals, the boys I grew up with.
4:08:57 > 4:09:00Every stop has got me thinking that little bit more
4:09:00 > 4:09:02but the opinions of your mates, well,
4:09:02 > 4:09:07you just have to take them on board before making such a big decision.
4:09:07 > 4:09:09When you bring your pals on the telly,
4:09:09 > 4:09:12you're a bit nervous cos it's a reflection on yourself.
4:09:12 > 4:09:15I think we've turned out pretty well. Are we proud to be Scottish?
4:09:15 > 4:09:18You hear it a lot, especially this year, because so much has happened.
4:09:18 > 4:09:20Just like in Trainspotting,
4:09:20 > 4:09:23you grow up where they've got everything down the road.
4:09:23 > 4:09:26But really this is a time to change that. Broaden the horizons.
4:09:26 > 4:09:30You're looking for a better country for yourself. Everybody.
4:09:30 > 4:09:32Not just one side, or this one ...
4:09:32 > 4:09:34regardless of who you are or what you are.
4:09:34 > 4:09:36If we go independent, it'll no longer be an accent,
4:09:36 > 4:09:38it'll be a language.
4:09:39 > 4:09:42Tourists visiting here, they'll just need to learn a bit.
4:09:42 > 4:09:46Every group of guys, like stag dos, coming up from England.
4:09:46 > 4:09:48There's always a guy who tries to speak a bit of the local lingo.
4:09:48 > 4:09:54You know, the "dos cervezas" guy, the "una mesa, para quatro" guy.
4:09:54 > 4:09:55That's what will happen.
4:09:55 > 4:09:58The guy sits in the front seat of the taxi, talking...
4:09:58 > 4:10:01- ENGLISH ACCENT:- "Trev, ah, you speak Scottish. Talk to him."
4:10:02 > 4:10:05"Ask him where's good to go tonight for a few drinks.
4:10:05 > 4:10:09- ENGLISH ACCENT:- "Ah, ah, the boys are wahn-tin' to get oot their nut the night..."
4:10:15 > 4:10:18"Where would you recommend for a few swallies, ma man?"
4:10:21 > 4:10:25- GLASWEGIAN ACCENT:- "Ah, you're probably better sticking to Sauchiehall Street.
4:10:25 > 4:10:26"Your Scottish is brilliant, pal."
4:10:28 > 4:10:30- ENGLISH:- "Ask him if it's safe.
4:10:30 > 4:10:32"Sauchiehall Street. Is that no' a wee bit dodgy?
4:10:34 > 4:10:35"Is it no' full of wee bams?
4:10:37 > 4:10:40"We don't wahnt to end up getting our jaws took aff."
4:10:43 > 4:10:46- ENGLISH:- "I wonder what Trev's saying. His Scottish is brilliant.
4:10:46 > 4:10:48"I wonder what he's saying.
4:10:48 > 4:10:50"I wonder if he's taking the piss out of us."
4:10:52 > 4:10:54"Sorry aboot these tadgers, mate."
4:10:55 > 4:10:57"They've been daeing my heid in aw day."
4:11:05 > 4:11:07The driver, dropping them off on Sauchie...
4:11:07 > 4:11:10"There you go, pal, that'll be 15 smackeroonies."
4:11:14 > 4:11:15How do you think it's going to go?
4:11:15 > 4:11:17T, do you think it will be a Yes or a No?
4:11:17 > 4:11:21I think... I think it probably will be a Yes,
4:11:21 > 4:11:22because I think that it's...
4:11:22 > 4:11:26To be honest, I think there's been more Yes coverage up here
4:11:26 > 4:11:28than there has been No coverage.
4:11:28 > 4:11:33I can only go with what I've seen and I've certainly seen more Yes.
4:11:33 > 4:11:35So how do you reckon it's going to go down, Jim?
4:11:35 > 4:11:37Generally speaking, I think it's going to be a No,
4:11:37 > 4:11:41but pretty much the opposite reasons from Tony
4:11:41 > 4:11:43because I don't think there's been enough coverage.
4:11:43 > 4:11:44Certainly for myself.
4:11:44 > 4:11:48I don't know how other people see it, but I don't.
4:11:48 > 4:11:49I think, a lot of younger people,
4:11:49 > 4:11:53there's maybe too much information that they don't understand,
4:11:53 > 4:11:55partly myself. I don't get a lot of it.
4:11:55 > 4:11:57I'm not too interested in politics
4:11:57 > 4:12:00until this has been taking place, so...
4:12:00 > 4:12:02But this is almost beyond politics.
4:12:02 > 4:12:04It's not just a case of picking a party.
4:12:04 > 4:12:06And, Danny, how do you think it's going to go?
4:12:06 > 4:12:09- I think it'll be a No. - Any particular reason?
4:12:09 > 4:12:11Just judging by opinion polls, again.
4:12:11 > 4:12:14I think it might go towards the No.
4:12:14 > 4:12:17But that's just with the scaremongering.
4:12:17 > 4:12:19Thanks for giving me your views, lads.
4:12:19 > 4:12:22Well done for reading up. Some of you have obviously
4:12:22 > 4:12:25been smoking the Herald and other broadsheet newspapers.
4:12:25 > 4:12:28I never knew we had that in us, but well done, guys.
4:12:34 > 4:12:38Well, that's it. I have reached the end of the road.
4:12:38 > 4:12:41In my attempts to find out more about the issues, I've hosted a
4:12:41 > 4:12:44radio phone-in, I've been on a peace camp, I've spoken to oil workers,
4:12:44 > 4:12:49Highlanders, my mum and dad, my pals and the Scottish Youth Parliament.
4:12:49 > 4:12:51I've enjoyed speaking to everybody and making this show
4:12:51 > 4:12:54has helped me reach a decision and I'm confident
4:12:54 > 4:12:57that when I walk in to the polling station on the 18th of September,
4:12:57 > 4:13:00I'll be making the right call. Thanks for watching. Goodnight.