0:00:07 > 0:00:09This election matters.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11London matters.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14It's the most important city in the world.
0:00:14 > 0:00:16I want to be mayor for all Londoners.
0:00:16 > 0:00:22I just recognise the huge role London's played in my life.
0:00:23 > 0:00:27We have a real opportunity coming up.
0:00:27 > 0:00:34I want there to be a permanent voice for Ukip in London.
0:00:35 > 0:00:40People want someone who's going to be able to deliver from day one.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43Londoners are absolutely crying out for a different approach.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45Together we can win.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Together we can change London.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50What really frustrates me is that this is too dominated
0:00:50 > 0:00:53by egos, this election.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55It matters that London has the right mayor,
0:00:55 > 0:00:58someone who can hold Government to account.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00We're talking about things that none of the other
0:01:00 > 0:01:05candidates are talking about.
0:01:07 > 0:01:16APPLAUSE
0:01:16 > 0:01:18Our audience of Londoners is raring to go.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21We have five of the 12 people hoping to be mayor of our city.
0:01:21 > 0:01:27You can join in at home on Twitter, using the hashtag London Mayor 2016.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29So let's get straight into it.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Our first question is from Dr Mehdi Dabestani,
0:01:32 > 0:01:35a retired GP from Blackheath.
0:01:35 > 0:01:41Hello, in light of the recent terrorist attacks in the European
0:01:41 > 0:01:45capitals, how are you going to keep us safe in London?
0:01:45 > 0:01:47Sadiq Khan.
0:01:47 > 0:01:56I remember 7/7 vividly, worrying about my wife
0:01:56 > 0:01:59The first thing I will do as the mayor is to make
0:01:59 > 0:02:01sure we have a review of our emergency services,
0:02:01 > 0:02:04to make sure we're ready for a major terrorist incident in London.
0:02:04 > 0:02:06For example, Port of London Authority, Transport for London,
0:02:06 > 0:02:08the emergency services, will they be able to
0:02:08 > 0:02:09communicate with each other?
0:02:09 > 0:02:11I'm a firm believer, as is the current commissioner,
0:02:11 > 0:02:13and the previous one, with policing by consent,
0:02:13 > 0:02:15enabling police to provide invaluable intelligence
0:02:15 > 0:02:17to the police and Security Services.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19They've been taken away from our communities in London.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21I'll bring them back.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24Also, we've got to be tackling the extremists and the radicals.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27I want to help mainstream Muslims take on this perverse ideology.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29We've got to be helping role models who are British Muslims.
0:02:29 > 0:02:35You've got to be closing down the internet service providers.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37You can be radicalised in your bedroom now.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40It's not like it used to be.
0:02:40 > 0:02:42We should be closing those down.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44Twitter has been very good.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47Some of the internet service providers have been slower.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49We have to encourage integration.
0:02:49 > 0:02:50It's really important we do that.
0:02:50 > 0:02:57Zac Goldsmith.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00The first thing to do is to ensure the police have the resources
0:03:00 > 0:03:01they need to keep us safe.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03That means keeping police numbers at least at 32,000.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06I fought to protect the budget a few months ago, successfully
0:03:06 > 0:03:07with my colleagues.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10We can now guarantee 32,000 minimum for London over the next four years.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13I pledge to put 500 additional police on the Tube, to accommodate
0:03:13 > 0:03:16the fact that's where much of the danger lies and much
0:03:16 > 0:03:17of the anxiety as well.
0:03:17 > 0:03:19It's about giving the police the tools they need.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21It's not all about the money and numbers.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24The police have asked for approval to double the number of armed
0:03:24 > 0:03:26response officers in the event that something bad happens.
0:03:26 > 0:03:27I back that.
0:03:27 > 0:03:28I'll back the police every day.
0:03:28 > 0:03:30I think more importantly than both of those things,
0:03:30 > 0:03:34the police need to know whoever is in City Hall is on their side.
0:03:34 > 0:03:35They make split-second decisions, life-and-death decisions
0:03:35 > 0:03:38on a regular basis, invisible to most of us, they need to know
0:03:38 > 0:03:41when they make those decisions the mayor is on their side.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44I had a meeting recently with armed response officers in Scotland Yard
0:03:44 > 0:03:47and I was there to look at all the kit and understand
0:03:47 > 0:03:50what they do, but it was very clear that they were looking to me
0:03:50 > 0:03:53for reassurance that should I be elected on May 5,
0:03:53 > 0:03:56should I be lucky enough to become the mayor, I would be on their side.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59It would be unusual if the Mayor of London wasn't
0:03:59 > 0:04:00on the police's side.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02Who's feeling reassured?
0:04:02 > 0:04:04Yes, Sir.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06Let me get a microphone to you.
0:04:06 > 0:04:08What do you feel about what you've heard so far?
0:04:08 > 0:04:10What I'm concerned about secure London.
0:04:10 > 0:04:14When we have a problem in London, we used to have bendy bus
0:04:14 > 0:04:16and people were dodging the fares, right.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20You have 25 police officers from London transport
0:04:20 > 0:04:23to just look after a few people, you know.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26We were wasting a wasteful source of the police force.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28Right.
0:04:28 > 0:04:30OK.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33I'm not sure that bendy buses are a major terrorist threat.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36Sadiq, you say that you would put our Security Services
0:04:36 > 0:04:38under an urgent review?
0:04:38 > 0:04:40They're always under urgent review.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43That's just a gimmick.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45The issue is, Andrew, bearing in mind that London
0:04:45 > 0:04:47is a terrorist threat - We know that.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50I recently visited a unified response unit
0:04:50 > 0:04:53practising at Dartford, which the Fire Services organised.
0:04:53 > 0:04:57A simple thing we learned from 7/7, can the Port of London radios work
0:04:57 > 0:05:01with Transport for London and work with the emergency services?
0:05:01 > 0:05:04I will give you another one, if there was a Mumbai-style attack
0:05:04 > 0:05:07in London, are there sufficient armed response units
0:05:07 > 0:05:09at the moment to address that?
0:05:09 > 0:05:12Are you saying - I'll give you another one.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14No, let me stick with these two, are you saying the existing
0:05:14 > 0:05:16chief of police isn't asking these questions?
0:05:16 > 0:05:22I want reassurance that we're ready.
0:05:22 > 0:05:24Why don't you just pick up the phone and ask him?
0:05:24 > 0:05:26I've met with them.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29If you close down ten fire stations, if there are 13 more fire engines
0:05:29 > 0:05:32being lost from London, half of London's firefighters
0:05:32 > 0:05:34live outside London, I worry about London security.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37I need to be reassured, Andrew, as the Mayor of London that we're
0:05:37 > 0:05:39all going to be safe.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42We've lost 1500 uniformed officers from the streets,
0:05:42 > 0:05:4570% of our safe and able teams.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48I'm not reassured yet.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50I want to be reassured.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53Sian Berry, would you be reassured by that in a London Mayor?
0:05:53 > 0:05:55I am scared about this.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57The risk of having something like 7/7 happen again has
0:05:57 > 0:05:59never been greater.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02We do need to be doing more.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04We know the risk.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07What our audience wants to know is if you're mayor,
0:06:07 > 0:06:08what will you do about it?
0:06:08 > 0:06:11We need to do what's effective not just what sounds tough.
0:06:11 > 0:06:13That means community policing, getting communities
0:06:13 > 0:06:15and the police on the same side.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17It means intelligence-led detection in policing.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20A police force truly representative of Londoners and
0:06:20 > 0:06:22working with people.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25The thing about heavy-handed policing, the thing about mistrust
0:06:25 > 0:06:29and Islamophobia, that's exactly what the violent terrorists want.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32Communities working together, communities being stronger
0:06:32 > 0:06:35is actually the best antidote.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39But that won't stop what might already be in the pipeline.
0:06:39 > 0:06:41Well, exactly.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44I think the mayor's strongest weapon in all of this is not the police.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46It's leadership.
0:06:46 > 0:06:48It's making sure that people within the community
0:06:48 > 0:06:51want to defeat the terrorists, will tell the police when there's
0:06:51 > 0:06:55something being planned so we can defeat the things -
0:06:55 > 0:06:58Leadership, that's it.
0:06:58 > 0:07:00And bringing communities together.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03I don't think our audience knows what that means.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Making sure the police genuinely represent Londoners,
0:07:05 > 0:07:09that we have a force that's out there doing out of their bounds
0:07:09 > 0:07:11on the streets working with communities so that people feel
0:07:11 > 0:07:13able to trust the police.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16I don't think simply putting more armed officers on the streets
0:07:16 > 0:07:18is the right way to do it.
0:07:18 > 0:07:20Sadiq is right about the other emergency services.
0:07:20 > 0:07:22We need to move on.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24We have lots of questions.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27Let's hear from Simranpreet Kaur, a student from Notting Hill.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30When I'm out with my friends, my Muslim friends in public, people
0:07:30 > 0:07:33still stare at their Islamic dress.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36What will the candidates do to stop division in the communities?
0:07:36 > 0:07:37Zac Goldsmith.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41From a personal point of view, I'm very relaxed about what people wear.
0:07:41 > 0:07:42We're a wonderful, diverse, multicultural city.
0:07:42 > 0:07:44We're a successful city.
0:07:44 > 0:07:46We are a harmonious city.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49Look across the water at Paris, a beautiful city architecturally,
0:07:49 > 0:07:52a great history, but it's a divided city.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55There are families leaving Paris now, who've been
0:07:55 > 0:07:57there for three generations, because they no longer
0:07:57 > 0:07:59feel safe in Paris.
0:07:59 > 0:08:01They no longer believe they have a future.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04I don't think we should ever take the harmony and cohesion
0:08:04 > 0:08:06in London for granted.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09But she still feels that if she dresses in a particular way,
0:08:09 > 0:08:12that people look at her strangely.
0:08:12 > 0:08:14That's not cohesion.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17Relatively speaking, London is a harmonious city because,
0:08:17 > 0:08:20I think, of the diversity that we have.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22We need to protect that.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26Your question was about the hijab, I didn't hear the first part,
0:08:26 > 0:08:30or the niqab, I think that's what you said, I'm very
0:08:30 > 0:08:32relaxed about that.
0:08:32 > 0:08:34When it comes...
0:08:34 > 0:08:36I don't think it's you she's worried about.
0:08:36 > 0:08:40You're asking about what position I would take as the Mayor of London.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42How would you stop people being prejudiced?
0:08:42 > 0:08:44People should be free to be themselves.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46There's a separate issue of prejudice, of hate crime in London.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49That's one of the crimes over the last year that has
0:08:49 > 0:08:52gone through the roof, whether it's Islamophobia or hatred
0:08:52 > 0:08:54against people with disabilities, anti-Semitism, we saw record amounts
0:08:54 > 0:08:57of anti-Semitism last year.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01The mayor has a direct role in challenging this.
0:09:01 > 0:09:03The mayor doesn't micromanage the police.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05The mayor sets the priorities.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08I said in my manifesto, I want stamping down on hate crime
0:09:08 > 0:09:10to be a top priority.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13I don't believe it's much of a leap from verbal violence,
0:09:13 > 0:09:16the kind of stuff on social media, on Twitter, for example,
0:09:16 > 0:09:18on a daily basis to physical aggression that we get
0:09:18 > 0:09:20on the streets.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23Let me ask you this, you take that position
0:09:23 > 0:09:27with our audience tonight, but Yvette Cooper has said,
0:09:27 > 0:09:34the Labour politician, that your campaign and your attacks
0:09:34 > 0:09:38on Sadiq Khan has now reached "a racist scream".
0:09:38 > 0:09:40I'm very pleased to see Sadiq, in our last debate, distanced
0:09:41 > 0:09:42himself from those comments.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45It is an outrageous thing to say by Yvette Cooper .
0:09:45 > 0:09:48My campaign has been overwhelmingly positive.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51What are you saying about Sadiq Khan, is he an extremist?
0:09:51 > 0:09:54I have made it very clear, I have never suggested Sadiq Khan
0:09:54 > 0:09:56is an extremist in any way at all.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58Your campaign team has.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00They have not.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02Are you taking the high moral ground where other
0:10:02 > 0:10:05people do your dirty work, is that how it works?
0:10:05 > 0:10:07That's not true.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09No-one associated with my campaign team has called Sadiq Khan extreme.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11I'm sure he will back up what I'm saying.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13No-one's suggested he's extreme.
0:10:13 > 0:10:15They're pumping out plenty of information about some
0:10:15 > 0:10:17of the people he's mixed with.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21Can you tell us tonight, it is not your view that Sadiq Khan
0:10:21 > 0:10:22is any way an extremist?
0:10:22 > 0:10:24100% my view.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27My view is that he is not an extremist.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30The point I have made and Londoners have made and the newspapers have
0:10:30 > 0:10:33made, on a regular basis, over the last few weeks and months,
0:10:33 > 0:10:35is that Sadiq Khan has given platforms and oxygen and even cover
0:10:35 > 0:10:37to people who are extremists.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39I think that is dangerous.
0:10:39 > 0:10:41It's not a question of Sadiq Khan being an extremist.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44I don't think anyone other than a few nut jobs on Twitter
0:10:44 > 0:10:46have suggested that.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48The reality is there is a question of judgment there.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51We have a massive battle on our hands, ideological battle,
0:10:51 > 0:10:53a battle that right now we're probably losing,
0:10:53 > 0:10:55it doesn't help to give platforms or oxygen or cover to people
0:10:56 > 0:10:58who mean to do us harm.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02APPLAUSE
0:11:02 > 0:11:05In your time, Sadiq, you have been associated
0:11:05 > 0:11:07with a number of extremists and terrorist sympathisers,
0:11:07 > 0:11:10haven't you?
0:11:10 > 0:11:13I've never hidden from the fact, and I say this to your audience,
0:11:13 > 0:11:18I was a human rights lawyer.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21One of the great things about this city is we believe in the rule
0:11:21 > 0:11:23of law and the presumption of innocence and due process.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26My grandparents were immigrants from India to Pakistan.
0:11:26 > 0:11:29My parents immigrants from Pakistan to London.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33There's no other city in the world I'd want to raise my daughter.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37We don't just tolerate difference, we celebrate and respect it.
0:11:37 > 0:11:42It my campaign is a supporter of Jews, Christians,
0:11:42 > 0:11:44Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, those who aren't
0:11:44 > 0:11:46of organised faith, old, young, rich, poor, even northerners
0:11:46 > 0:11:49supporting my campaign.
0:11:49 > 0:11:51It's for everyone.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54We want to bring communities together.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56You're right, there is a challenge in relation to integration.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59There is a challenge in relation to prejudice which leads to the hate
0:11:59 > 0:12:02crime we've seen over the last year, an increase of 60% in anti-Semitic
0:12:02 > 0:12:06hate crime, an increase of more than 34% Islamophobic hate crimes,
0:12:06 > 0:12:10almost 30% in homophobic crimes.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14That's why if I was Mayor of London the priority for the Met Police
0:12:14 > 0:12:16we would addressing the issue of hate crime.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20It wasn't just your job as a lawyer for Liberty that
0:12:20 > 0:12:23brought you into touch with unsavoury characters.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25Lawyers often have to do that.
0:12:25 > 0:12:27You appeared on platforms with them.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29Sulaiman Ghani, a supporter of a supporter of Islamic State,
0:12:30 > 0:12:32you appeared with him nine times.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34One of these times you must have found out
0:12:35 > 0:12:37what he really believed in.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40There are lots of campaigns I have been involved in as chair of Liberty
0:12:40 > 0:12:44and as a human rights lawyer and as a politicain.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47Do you regret appearing on platforms with people like that?
0:12:47 > 0:12:50I regret giving the impression I subscribe to their views.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52I've been quite clear that I find their views abhorrent.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55Let me give you an example that Zac Goldsmith and I
0:12:55 > 0:12:58campaigned together with, against the USA-UK
0:12:58 > 0:13:01extradition treaty.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03Some of the people extradited were unsavoury.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07I have a plan to address the issue of extremism, to tackle
0:13:07 > 0:13:10radicalisation.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12I've suffered from extremism.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15When I first stood for Parliament in 2005, there were extremists
0:13:15 > 0:13:19campaigning against me in the mosque I used to worship
0:13:19 > 0:13:22in saying I was going to hell because I was encouraging people
0:13:22 > 0:13:25to take part in democracy.
0:13:25 > 0:13:27I suffered death threats when I voted for same-sex marriage.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30Andrew may say it's all right, but it's not all right.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33No, I just need to bring in other people.
0:13:33 > 0:13:35Because this is becoming a monologue.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37Caroline Pidgeon.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39What do you make of the tone of this campaign?
0:13:39 > 0:13:42I'm Caroline Pidgeon, the only candidate who for the last
0:13:42 > 0:13:44eight years has been working day in, day out at City Hall
0:13:44 > 0:13:48for London holding the Met police commissioners,
0:13:48 > 0:13:51four of them, to account.
0:13:51 > 0:13:53The campaign, I'm fed up of the mud slinging.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56I want to get back to the issue raised by the member
0:13:56 > 0:13:58of the audience.
0:13:58 > 0:14:03It's really important that everyone can feel welcome in London.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05APPLAUSE
0:14:05 > 0:14:07Imagine walking around and not feeling
0:14:07 > 0:14:09you're part of London.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12It's impossible for many of us to imagine, by what you're wearing
0:14:12 > 0:14:13and what you look like.
0:14:13 > 0:14:14That has to stop.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16As Mayor of London I will be passionate to celebrate
0:14:16 > 0:14:19all communities in London and work with all communities.
0:14:19 > 0:14:20We've got to tackle hate crime.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23We need to make sure we have a new strategy that
0:14:23 > 0:14:24improves the reporter, investigating and
0:14:24 > 0:14:25prosecuting of hate crime.
0:14:25 > 0:14:27We need to reverse the cuts in community policing.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30I'm the only candidate who will fund 3,000 additional police
0:14:30 > 0:14:32officers on the Tube, trains and buses to make sure
0:14:32 > 0:14:35we feel safe and make sure we tackle this increase in hate crime
0:14:35 > 0:14:37and sexual offences we're seeing across the capital.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40Peter Whittle what would you do to improve cohesion in the capital?
0:14:40 > 0:14:46I do have a problem with the full-face covering.
0:14:46 > 0:14:52I think it is the absolute antithesis of cohesive behaviour.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55I think it's saying - I don't want to talk to you,
0:14:55 > 0:14:57don't come near me.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00I think there is certainly, I don't like banning things.
0:15:00 > 0:15:02Would you ban it or wouldn't you?
0:15:02 > 0:15:05No, I would certainly ban it in certain public areas.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07It should not be used in courts.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10I don't think that teachers whatever should wear it.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13There are certain office, common-sense situations where you
0:15:13 > 0:15:17need to see people's faces.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20Is that it?
0:15:20 > 0:15:22APPLAUSE
0:15:22 > 0:15:24What else would you do improve cohesion?
0:15:24 > 0:15:26You need to see people's faces.
0:15:26 > 0:15:28The other thing, I get irritated when we talk
0:15:28 > 0:15:31about London being harmonious and all the rest of it.
0:15:31 > 0:15:35Sadiq, going back to about 2003, you said that there was a man called
0:15:35 > 0:15:41al-Qaradawi brought here by Ken Livingstone.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44He has spoken about gays being an abomination.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48I take a great interest being a gay man and that women were subservient
0:15:48 > 0:15:50and this kind of thing.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53I recall that academics had said that he had common sensical views,
0:15:53 > 0:15:57that he wasn't extreme.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00Right up to the present - No, no you've answered the -
0:16:00 > 0:16:04Right up to the present...
0:16:04 > 0:16:07I'm the only candidate here who received death threats
0:16:07 > 0:16:10for voting for same-sex marriage.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12I don't need to be lectured by Peter.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15I've spent my entire life fighting inequality and injustice.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17We will leave that there.
0:16:17 > 0:16:20This is the big issue of this campaign for many.
0:16:20 > 0:16:22This is our next question from Sue Gormati,
0:16:22 > 0:16:26a retired recruitment consultant from Redbridge.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29My son earns a decent wage but can't get on the housing ladder.
0:16:29 > 0:16:34I keep hearing the words "affordable housing".
0:16:34 > 0:16:39What exactly do the candidates mean by affordable?
0:16:39 > 0:16:41What's affordable, Zac Goldsmith?
0:16:41 > 0:16:45A crisis is a word used in politics in relation to almost every issue,
0:16:45 > 0:16:48but we do have a housing crisis in London.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51The reality today is that you could be earning
0:16:51 > 0:16:54the average London salary, around ?34,500, or even double that,
0:16:54 > 0:17:00and you're still going to struggle to get on the housing ladder.
0:17:00 > 0:17:01That is a real problem.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04We can tinker around the edges.
0:17:04 > 0:17:06But the only long-term solution is to increase supply.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08We need 50,000 homes a year.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11My action plan for London will deliver 50,000 homes a year.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14I'll do that by getting a deal from Government whereby they release
0:17:14 > 0:17:17the publicly owned brown field land, there is a huge amount of it -
0:17:17 > 0:17:20We might get onto this, her question was what do
0:17:20 > 0:17:22you mean by affordable?
0:17:22 > 0:17:26The only way to enable people onto the housing ladder
0:17:26 > 0:17:29is to increase supply.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31That's the only answer.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33I understand that, that wasn't what she asked.
0:17:33 > 0:17:36She wanted to know what is your idea of an affordable house?
0:17:36 > 0:17:38I can tell you an affordable housing policy.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41Everyone in this room will have a definition
0:17:41 > 0:17:43of affordable housing.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46But a policy will allow an average Londoner with an average income
0:17:46 > 0:17:50to get the keys to their first home.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52It's a very remote possibility in today's climate.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55That's what the next mayor must address.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58If I'm elected this will be the biggest challenge and the one
0:17:58 > 0:18:01I most look forward to taking on.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03APPLAUSE
0:18:03 > 0:18:06In terms of buying a starter home, can you, Sadiq Khan,
0:18:06 > 0:18:08tell us what's affordable?
0:18:08 > 0:18:11It's not ?450,000, which is the figure
0:18:11 > 0:18:13Zac's scared to mention.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15That is nonsense.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18We've had this argument and you've backed down.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20Don't do it again just because you're on TV.
0:18:21 > 0:18:22APPLAUSE
0:18:22 > 0:18:25I voted against a bill which Zac supported saying a starter
0:18:25 > 0:18:29home is one costing up to ?450,000.
0:18:29 > 0:18:33I didn't ask you what Zac Goldsmith thinks because he won't tell me.
0:18:33 > 0:18:35I'm asking what you think is affordable.
0:18:35 > 0:18:37I'm about to tell you.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40Good, get on with it.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42It's a third of average earnings.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45If the average earnings in Southwark is ?1800 a month,
0:18:45 > 0:18:48the average living rent should be one third of that,
0:18:48 > 0:18:51which is ?600 a month.
0:18:51 > 0:18:54When I define genuinely affordable homes, I mean just that.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57One of three things, they're either a home
0:18:57 > 0:18:59where you pay a social rent, a council property.
0:18:59 > 0:19:04Or they're a home where you pay one third of average earnings.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07So it will be London living rent, one third of average earnings
0:19:07 > 0:19:11or shared ownership, part buy, part rent.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15We've modelled homes in zones three to six in London
0:19:15 > 0:19:18on Transport for London land, land that we own, public
0:19:18 > 0:19:20land that's surplus.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23We think there would be a deposit of between ?5,000 to ?6,000
0:19:23 > 0:19:27and a monthly rent and mortgage of less than ?1,000.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30We've modelled it and we can make it work.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33That's a million miles away from ?500,000 which
0:19:33 > 0:19:35is what Zac thinks.
0:19:35 > 0:19:38Caroline Pidgeon, does that sound affordable?
0:19:38 > 0:19:40It's really important as I go round London
0:19:40 > 0:19:43talking to young people, it's a story I hear time and again,
0:19:43 > 0:19:46people can't afford to rent in London, let alone to buy.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49What we need is an Olympic effort to build the homes
0:19:49 > 0:19:52that Londoners need.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55That's why I'm the only candidate who's saying I will build
0:19:55 > 0:19:57council housing again, genuinely affordable council housing
0:19:57 > 0:20:00as well as those for shared rent.
0:20:00 > 0:20:01How many?
0:20:01 > 0:20:04I will build 50,000 homes a year, ten times more council housing
0:20:04 > 0:20:06than Boris Johnson has built in the last year.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09Where will the money come from?
0:20:09 > 0:20:11I'm the only candidate saying I'm going to put money into this.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13I'm not just talking the talk.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16I'm asking Londoners to continue paying the council tax they've been
0:20:16 > 0:20:19paying for the last year, keeping the amount of money
0:20:19 > 0:20:22we've all been paying for the Olympic Games,
0:20:22 > 0:20:25raise the ?2 billion fund with the GLA land we can build
0:20:25 > 0:20:29the homes that Londoners need.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32Hold on the council tax preset which is ?20 for everyone who pays
0:20:32 > 0:20:34it, that would raise less than 60 in a year.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36It's 86 million a year.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39Even then you're not going to build 50,000 homes on that.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42You can borrow against that to raise ?2 billion to build the homes.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45From whom would you borrow?
0:20:45 > 0:20:48Through cheap public sector borrowing.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50My budget was signed off by City Hall.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52It's approved.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55Would you need to the Treasury to do that?
0:20:55 > 0:20:57We need to skill up the workforce.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00I've been talking to young people at construction academies.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03I want to build a state-of-the-art construction academy to train
0:21:03 > 0:21:06Londoners up so they're able to build the homes that we need
0:21:06 > 0:21:08right across the capital.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10Have you tried to secure Treasury approval for
0:21:10 > 0:21:12the increase in borrowing?
0:21:12 > 0:21:14City Hall signed off our budget very clearly.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17We would have to talk to Government about that.
0:21:17 > 0:21:18I'm talking about putting money in.
0:21:18 > 0:21:20No-one is talking about that.
0:21:20 > 0:21:22They're talking about going with a begging
0:21:22 > 0:21:24bowl to Government.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27I rent my home.
0:21:27 > 0:21:29I've paid out more than half my income in rent.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31That isn't affordable.
0:21:31 > 0:21:36One of the first things I do, if I was elected mayor,
0:21:36 > 0:21:39on the first day I'd call up the Prime Minister and tell him
0:21:39 > 0:21:42we need in London the power to control our rents.
0:21:42 > 0:21:44That's the first step on the way to saving up
0:21:44 > 0:21:46for a deposit for your own home.
0:21:46 > 0:21:47APPLAUSE
0:21:47 > 0:21:49On new homes I'm planning to put money in.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53The council tax preset is a good idea, but we have to break the model
0:21:53 > 0:21:54of the big developers.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56The other candidates are talking about getting more out
0:21:56 > 0:21:58of the big developers, we need to bypass them
0:21:58 > 0:22:00and build our own model of affordable housing.
0:22:00 > 0:22:04I want to work with investors, but not investors who are offshore
0:22:04 > 0:22:08and want a massive profit.
0:22:08 > 0:22:12I want to work with people like me who want to be involved in a Co-op -
0:22:12 > 0:22:15What investors would you work with to build 50,000 a year?
0:22:15 > 0:22:16People like me.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18We're paying a lot in rent in London.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20We have money to put into homes.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22Maybe we can only afford the bricks and mortar,
0:22:22 > 0:22:24not London's inflated land prices.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27We need to use London's public land as a way of doing things
0:22:27 > 0:22:29like community land trusts, cooperatives, working
0:22:29 > 0:22:32with smaller developers.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35We can do it without going cap in hand to the big developers.
0:22:35 > 0:22:42That's been tried for 156 years and hasn't worked.
0:22:42 > 0:22:43Peter Whittle, they always seem to want to build
0:22:44 > 0:22:4550,000 houses a year.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47It is unclear how you would all do it.
0:22:47 > 0:22:48How would you do it?
0:22:48 > 0:22:49Can I point something out?
0:22:49 > 0:22:51Caroline, you say you want to build 200,000 houses, you have said that
0:22:51 > 0:22:52on one occasion before.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55With a ?2 billion loan, does that mean each house
0:22:55 > 0:22:57will cost ten grand?
0:22:57 > 0:22:58That is Natalie Bennett territory.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00No, no, no.
0:23:00 > 0:23:03Absolutely not.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05It does mean that.
0:23:05 > 0:23:07It is for the council housing element, Peter.
0:23:07 > 0:23:08Get your facts right.
0:23:08 > 0:23:09How would you build 50,000 houses a year?
0:23:10 > 0:23:10Absolutely not.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12We do not approach it that way.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15It is not being honest or fair with people.
0:23:15 > 0:23:18There is no such thing as an affordable home.
0:23:18 > 0:23:22The fact of the matter is, London's population is growing
0:23:22 > 0:23:27at the rate of a million a decade and anyone who thinks
0:23:27 > 0:23:31that the housing crisis is not linked to that kind of uncontrolled
0:23:31 > 0:23:33migration is in denial, which includes all four
0:23:33 > 0:23:36candidates here...
0:23:36 > 0:23:40You don't have a housing policy, you have an immigration policy?
0:23:40 > 0:23:44There is no question about it.
0:23:44 > 0:23:48Common-sense will tell you that in fact if your population
0:23:48 > 0:23:51is going up, by something like a million a decade,
0:23:51 > 0:23:56by the time you reach 2050, you have to think of the future of London...
0:23:56 > 0:23:58We have a crisis of affordability, not human numbers.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01The only problem is, you...
0:24:01 > 0:24:04ALL SPEAK AT ONCE
0:24:04 > 0:24:07You think a million people a decade makes no difference to housing,
0:24:07 > 0:24:08makes no difference to infrastructure?
0:24:08 > 0:24:09Do you honestly think...
0:24:09 > 0:24:10It's a crisis of affordability.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13You should be having a go at previous Mayors...
0:24:13 > 0:24:14Right.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16We will stick with housing.
0:24:16 > 0:24:17Hold on.
0:24:17 > 0:24:18You are not being honest.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20We will stick with housing.
0:24:20 > 0:24:24I want to ask the audience this: They all, in their different ways,
0:24:24 > 0:24:27say they are going to build 50,000 houses a year.
0:24:27 > 0:24:29I don't.
0:24:29 > 0:24:33Except for our candidate from Ukip.
0:24:33 > 0:24:35Four out of the five.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38Both Mr Johnson and before Mr Livingstone never really managed
0:24:38 > 0:24:40more than 20,000 a year.
0:24:40 > 0:24:43From what you have heard, do you think any of these
0:24:43 > 0:24:45candidates, of the four who want to do it, is capable
0:24:45 > 0:24:47of building 50,000 a year?
0:24:47 > 0:24:50Raise your hand if you think that.
0:24:50 > 0:24:52LAUGHTER
0:24:52 > 0:24:55That is a massive vote of no confidence in the housing policies
0:24:55 > 0:24:57of all the candidates.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59Let me ask you another question as well.
0:24:59 > 0:25:04Who thinks it is now going to be impossible for your children,
0:25:04 > 0:25:12or for yourself, to get a foot on the housing ladder?
0:25:12 > 0:25:16Who thinks it will be really difficult for your children?
0:25:16 > 0:25:20You think there is a massive problem, but you are not sure
0:25:20 > 0:25:21they have the solutions.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23Let's stick with housing, it's so important.
0:25:23 > 0:25:27Nazrin is a magistrate from Ilford.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30Policies like "first dibs for Londoners" sound
0:25:30 > 0:25:31promising but impractical.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34How would you decide who is a Londoner?
0:25:34 > 0:25:36Who is a Londoner, Sadiq Khan?
0:25:36 > 0:25:39We have a way of doing it when it comes to the application of council
0:25:39 > 0:25:42homes, when it comes to the part buy/part rent.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44Can I explain the policy?
0:25:44 > 0:25:47There is a huge amount of land the Mayor owns, TfL
0:25:47 > 0:25:48owns, Londoners own.
0:25:48 > 0:25:51Think of Hyde Park.
0:25:51 > 0:25:5516 times Hyde Park is what TfL own, some of it is surplus.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58We can say one of the conditions of you getting one of those homes,
0:25:58 > 0:26:04whether it is London Living Rent, a council property, or shared
0:26:04 > 0:26:06ownership is you have to be a Londoner.
0:26:06 > 0:26:10If you have been renting in London for more than five years,
0:26:10 > 0:26:13you will jump the queue in relation to part buy/part rent.
0:26:13 > 0:26:15In relation to homes and private land, already some local authorities
0:26:15 > 0:26:20do it/ so Hackney have a scheme where the condition of getting
0:26:20 > 0:26:23permission was the developer had to market in Hackney for the first
0:26:23 > 0:26:26six months before they could market overseas.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29It is a scandal before homes are completed they are sold
0:26:29 > 0:26:31overseas to investors in the Middle East and Asia.
0:26:32 > 0:26:33We have to stop that.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35Transport for London, there are 16 Hyde Parks,
0:26:35 > 0:26:37what percentage of the 16 Hyde Parks would be
0:26:37 > 0:26:38suitable for housing?
0:26:38 > 0:26:3910% we think as conservative estimates.
0:26:39 > 0:26:42So it's only 1.6 Hyde Parks?
0:26:42 > 0:26:44A conservative estimate...
0:26:44 > 0:26:46OK, two Hyde Parks.
0:26:46 > 0:26:48It's not 16, is it?
0:26:48 > 0:26:49That's to get things going.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52There are also brownfield sites, other land, ex-courts,
0:26:52 > 0:26:56NHS land, police stations.
0:26:56 > 0:26:58Rather than a fire sale, selling police stations
0:26:58 > 0:27:00to investors from overseas, let's keep the freehold and build
0:27:00 > 0:27:03genuinely affordable homes on that public land...
0:27:03 > 0:27:08Transport for London says that there is only room for 10,000
0:27:08 > 0:27:15homes, over ten years, over ten years, on your 16 Hyde Parks.
0:27:15 > 0:27:18At least 10% of that we can start building straightaway.
0:27:18 > 0:27:22We have modelled the land in Zones 3 to 6, we can start going
0:27:22 > 0:27:24straightaway, and there is other public land as well.
0:27:24 > 0:27:28At the moment, the Mayor is selling off the public land in a fire sale.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31We have to stop selling off our crown jewels and build
0:27:31 > 0:27:33affordable homes on that land.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35I think our magistrate wants to come back.
0:27:35 > 0:27:37You haven't answered the question.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39I asked you, how do you define a Londoner?
0:27:39 > 0:27:44I don't think you've really answered...
0:27:44 > 0:27:48Some local authorities say you have to live
0:27:48 > 0:27:51in the borough for a year, some say two years,
0:27:51 > 0:27:52some say three years.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55They ask for evidence of that.
0:27:55 > 0:27:56Councils do that now.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58It is not a new thing.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01When it comes to part buy/part rent, we already do that now.
0:28:01 > 0:28:02Housing associations do it now.
0:28:02 > 0:28:03There is nothing new there.
0:28:03 > 0:28:06So as long as there is evidence of living in London,
0:28:06 > 0:28:09there could be council tax, there could be other forms as well,
0:28:09 > 0:28:12and you will be able to get one of the homes we build in London.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14We are a city of immigrants.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17Do you really want to start to define a Londoner?
0:28:17 > 0:28:19It already happens when it comes to council housing.
0:28:19 > 0:28:21There is almost no council homes available these days?
0:28:21 > 0:28:22And the homes we build...
0:28:22 > 0:28:24And you are not promising to build anymore.
0:28:24 > 0:28:25The homes for Londoners we build...
0:28:25 > 0:28:28And we shouldn't be embarrassed of saying that, you have to live
0:28:28 > 0:28:31for a period of time in an area before you are eligible...
0:28:31 > 0:28:33There's a gentleman in the blue jacket.
0:28:33 > 0:28:34I want to hear from you.
0:28:34 > 0:28:36Then I will bring Zac Goldsmith in.
0:28:36 > 0:28:37I'm a property developer.
0:28:37 > 0:28:39Have you ever thought about recycling money?
0:28:39 > 0:28:42You give me ?1 million, I build ten houses for ?100,000 each
0:28:42 > 0:28:45and then to my deserving people in London, these houses will be
0:28:45 > 0:28:49worth at least ?300,000, ?400,000.
0:28:49 > 0:28:54What I do to my deserving nurse, I say to her, you work for me for 15
0:28:54 > 0:28:57years and I will build you a house for ?100,000
0:28:57 > 0:29:00and that is all I want off you.
0:29:00 > 0:29:02Because this house is going to be worth ?200,000.
0:29:02 > 0:29:05I don't want that, I'm the Government and all I need to do
0:29:05 > 0:29:09is build 50,000 houses so all I will do is build the house,
0:29:09 > 0:29:12get my money back, and then carry on building.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16As soon as I get my money back, I will build the next house,
0:29:16 > 0:29:17and it hasn't cost me a penny.
0:29:17 > 0:29:19OK, not sure I followed all that.
0:29:19 > 0:29:21Maybe the viewers at home did.
0:29:21 > 0:29:23Zac Goldsmith, what is a Londoner?
0:29:23 > 0:29:26Can I explain the policy first as well, please?
0:29:26 > 0:29:30In order to deliver the 50,000 homes a year, which we need to do to close
0:29:30 > 0:29:33the gap, to enable people to get on the housing ladder,
0:29:33 > 0:29:35much of that will come about through building
0:29:35 > 0:29:37on publicly-owned land, not just TfL land -
0:29:37 > 0:29:39by the way, they say 30,000, not 10,000 -
0:29:39 > 0:29:42but it's a pin-prick in terms of the overall challenge.
0:29:42 > 0:29:44Ministry of Defence, Ministry of Justice,
0:29:44 > 0:29:46National Health Service...
0:29:46 > 0:29:49You would have to buy that land, that is owned by central government?
0:29:49 > 0:29:51It doesn't have to be transferred to the mayor.
0:29:51 > 0:29:53Why would they do that?
0:29:53 > 0:29:55Because we have a housing crisis.
0:29:55 > 0:30:00Yes, but the NHS has a lot of land, the NHS is also short of money,
0:30:00 > 0:30:03it will send its land to the highest bidder?
0:30:03 > 0:30:06We have a housing crisis, a 360,000 long
0:30:07 > 0:30:08social housing list.
0:30:08 > 0:30:09We know that.
0:30:09 > 0:30:11What indications have the Government given you that they will
0:30:11 > 0:30:13give you this land?
0:30:13 > 0:30:16I can't tell you that the Government has signed off a plan to release
0:30:16 > 0:30:17this publicly-owned land.
0:30:17 > 0:30:19As a candidate, with a record of working with governments,
0:30:19 > 0:30:22securing a good deal from Government, I'm in a good
0:30:22 > 0:30:23place to get that deal.
0:30:23 > 0:30:25If we don't get the Government to release that land,
0:30:25 > 0:30:27it will be difficult...
0:30:27 > 0:30:30What is in your record, what have you ever done to lead us
0:30:30 > 0:30:34to believe that you could preside over our house building programme
0:30:34 > 0:30:37of 50,000 homes a year?
0:30:37 > 0:30:39The first line in the job description of an effective Mayor
0:30:39 > 0:30:42of London is being able to get a good deal from Government,
0:30:42 > 0:30:45not just a good deal, but the best possible deal.
0:30:45 > 0:30:47Ken Livingstone, whatever one thinks about him,
0:30:47 > 0:30:49was an effective mayor, he did what he said
0:30:49 > 0:30:50he was going to do.
0:30:50 > 0:30:52But he never got more than 20,000 houses a year.
0:30:52 > 0:30:55Boris Johnson has been a brilliant mayor because he has
0:30:55 > 0:30:56worked with Government.
0:30:56 > 0:30:58He never got more than 20,000 houses a year.
0:30:58 > 0:31:01What is it in your CV that suggests you could build 50,000 a year?
0:31:01 > 0:31:02There are two things.
0:31:02 > 0:31:05One, I will persuade the Government, as I'm already doing,
0:31:05 > 0:31:07to release that land to make it available for development and two,
0:31:07 > 0:31:10I will grow the transport network to unlock that land.
0:31:10 > 0:31:12If we don't grow the transport network, which means protecting
0:31:12 > 0:31:14the transport budget, we don't get those services.
0:31:14 > 0:31:17One example of that, Crossrail 2 will enable us to build
0:31:17 > 0:31:20200,000 homes that would not otherwise be built.
0:31:20 > 0:31:21Sutton Tramlink...
0:31:21 > 0:31:23Hold on, on the Crossrail...
0:31:23 > 0:31:28Crossrail 2, you are promising to have over 50,000
0:31:28 > 0:31:32homes a year by 2020.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35Crossrail 2 won't have started digging the tunnel by 2020.
0:31:35 > 0:31:37I will be dead by the time it comes.
0:31:37 > 0:31:40Even you could be dead by the time it comes!
0:31:40 > 0:31:41I hope that is not true, Andrew.
0:31:41 > 0:31:43I hope that is not true.
0:31:43 > 0:31:44Enough of dead.
0:31:44 > 0:31:46Let's have another question.
0:31:46 > 0:31:49James Vango-Searle, who is an apprentice project manager.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51What is your question?
0:31:51 > 0:31:52Thank you.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55What would London look like if we left the European Union?
0:31:55 > 0:32:01Sian Berry, what would this city be like if we left the EU?
0:32:01 > 0:32:04We would be short of 300,000 citizens, many of whom are working
0:32:04 > 0:32:08here, running companies, helping to provide jobs for other
0:32:08 > 0:32:12people, many of whom are married to or living with people who are UK
0:32:12 > 0:32:15citizens and we would have, we would be throwing a lot of people
0:32:15 > 0:32:18who are living here, who are from the EU, into jeopardy.
0:32:18 > 0:32:20Why would they go?
0:32:20 > 0:32:23Because they wouldn't necessarily have residency rights.
0:32:23 > 0:32:25Why would they not?
0:32:25 > 0:32:28All of this would be called into question if we
0:32:28 > 0:32:29start to leave the EU.
0:32:29 > 0:32:31What, is there any proposal that anybody who is already
0:32:31 > 0:32:32here would have to go?
0:32:32 > 0:32:34London is a very, very international city.
0:32:34 > 0:32:35No, even I know that.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38I'm asking you why would they have to go?
0:32:38 > 0:32:41I think that is all in question if we leave the EU.
0:32:41 > 0:32:42It is all in question.
0:32:42 > 0:32:44I know loads of people who are sorting themselves out
0:32:44 > 0:32:48with dual citizenship, who are getting themselves an Irish
0:32:48 > 0:32:50passport just in case.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53There is a lot of uncertainty out there.
0:32:53 > 0:32:56That is different from you predicting that
0:32:56 > 0:32:58300,000 would leave.
0:32:58 > 0:33:00Uncertainty, I understand that.
0:33:00 > 0:33:01There is a lot of uncertainty around.
0:33:01 > 0:33:04Caroline Pidgeon, what difference would it make to our capital
0:33:04 > 0:33:05city if we left the EU?
0:33:05 > 0:33:08When I go to Accident Emergency departments with my son,
0:33:08 > 0:33:11I'm delighted that we have got people from the EU working
0:33:11 > 0:33:14there as our nurses and doctors and running the Health Service
0:33:14 > 0:33:17and it would collapse without those people in place.
0:33:17 > 0:33:22If we leave the European Union, we risk losing tens of thousands
0:33:22 > 0:33:25of jobs that Londoners have, whether it is working
0:33:25 > 0:33:29in the financial sector, the tech industry, research and development,
0:33:29 > 0:33:31we would lose those jobs and the support jobs
0:33:31 > 0:33:33that go with those.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36We would lose the opportunity, the loss of the huge market
0:33:36 > 0:33:39that we have to work with, and why would a company
0:33:39 > 0:33:42base their European or global head office here in London if they don't
0:33:42 > 0:33:45have access to the European market?
0:33:45 > 0:33:47It would be unthinkable if we left.
0:33:47 > 0:33:50It would be so damaging to London's economy and the whole
0:33:50 > 0:33:51of the UK's economy.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53That is clear enough.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56Peter Whittle?
0:33:56 > 0:33:57Let me ask...
0:33:57 > 0:34:00London is the financial capital of Europe by a country mile.
0:34:00 > 0:34:02Yes.
0:34:02 > 0:34:06Is it conceivable that we could stay the financial capital
0:34:06 > 0:34:10of the European Union if we weren't a member of the club?
0:34:10 > 0:34:13Well, HSBC seem to think so because they have just said
0:34:13 > 0:34:17they are staying and it won't make a blind bit of difference.
0:34:17 > 0:34:21Most of their business is in Asia.
0:34:21 > 0:34:23About ten years ago, everyone was saying in the city,
0:34:23 > 0:34:26if we don't join the euro, that is it, everyone will move
0:34:26 > 0:34:29to Frankfurt and Paris.
0:34:29 > 0:34:30It didn't happen.
0:34:30 > 0:34:32It didn't happen.
0:34:32 > 0:34:34If I could answer the gentleman's question there?
0:34:34 > 0:34:37There are a lot of lies going around about what is going
0:34:37 > 0:34:38to happen to London.
0:34:38 > 0:34:40First of all, people who are here from the EU will not
0:34:41 > 0:34:42have to go back and you know it.
0:34:42 > 0:34:44It doesn't work that way.
0:34:44 > 0:34:45It is as simple as that.
0:34:45 > 0:34:49As for the NHS, most of the people who work from outside of the NHS
0:34:49 > 0:34:51are from the Commonwealth countries and from India
0:34:51 > 0:34:52and other countries outside.
0:34:52 > 0:34:54All over the world.
0:34:54 > 0:34:55The majority of people...
0:34:55 > 0:34:58They may not be welcome in your world, but they come
0:34:58 > 0:34:59from all over the world.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02They are extremely welcome and don't try and play some kind of race
0:35:02 > 0:35:05card, or anything here.
0:35:05 > 0:35:07It is as simple as this.
0:35:07 > 0:35:09It is about numbers, right?
0:35:09 > 0:35:12We need people who have the skills, whether it is in our NHS,
0:35:12 > 0:35:15or in our tech city, we need them from South East Asia,
0:35:15 > 0:35:18that is where we need them from.
0:35:18 > 0:35:19At the moment, they have to...
0:35:19 > 0:35:21We don't need skilled people from France, Germany,
0:35:21 > 0:35:24Italy, Spain, Portugal?
0:35:24 > 0:35:27People are coming in from the EU, they are allowed to come
0:35:27 > 0:35:30in whatever they have, if they have no skills at all.
0:35:30 > 0:35:33They are putting pressure on wages, they are putting pressure on jobs
0:35:33 > 0:35:35for people here in London.
0:35:35 > 0:35:36OK.
0:35:36 > 0:35:40Zac Goldsmith, London isn't just the financial capital of Europe.
0:35:40 > 0:35:44It is not Brussels, it is THE capital of Europe.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47This is by far the most important city on our continent.
0:35:47 > 0:35:48Yeah.
0:35:48 > 0:35:51Can it remain that way if we were to leave the EU?
0:35:51 > 0:35:53I will answer that in two ways.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57The first is to say the job of the next mayor is not to take us
0:35:57 > 0:35:59out of Europe or keep us in Europe.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02The job of the next mayor is to make whatever decision is made
0:36:02 > 0:36:04by the British people in the long overdue referendum,
0:36:04 > 0:36:07a referendum I welcome and am thrilled that it is happening.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09London has to be at the heart of Europe...
0:36:09 > 0:36:10One second...
0:36:10 > 0:36:12London is the greatest city in the world.
0:36:12 > 0:36:14It is also the most important city in the world.
0:36:14 > 0:36:18That is not because we are attached, or a part of, or on the edge
0:36:18 > 0:36:20of the European Union, it's because we have a legal system
0:36:20 > 0:36:23people trust, we have a language people understand, we have a global
0:36:23 > 0:36:25outlook, we are underpinned by a parliamentary democracy in
0:36:25 > 0:36:27which most people have confidence.
0:36:27 > 0:36:29London is the greatest city in the world.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31We have a bright and brilliant and glorious future
0:36:31 > 0:36:32whatever decision we make.
0:36:32 > 0:36:35I happen to think as one of the 48 million people that
0:36:35 > 0:36:38will take part in this referendum that it is has a slightly brighter,
0:36:38 > 0:36:40more glorious, more wonderful future out because I think
0:36:40 > 0:36:41that is where we belong.
0:36:41 > 0:36:42Thank you, Zac Goldsmith.
0:36:42 > 0:36:44Still plenty to discuss, but first let's hear
0:36:44 > 0:36:48from the other seven candidates fighting this election.
0:36:48 > 0:36:50I believe in local housing for local people.
0:36:50 > 0:36:54There should be a local connection assessment test for social housing.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57The longer the connection with London, the greater the chance
0:36:57 > 0:36:59of getting social housing.
0:36:59 > 0:37:02It is only fair that people who grew up in London have a chance
0:37:02 > 0:37:04to live in London.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07London is a great world city.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10It needs a big figure to lead it, someone that people know,
0:37:10 > 0:37:13someone that people listen to.
0:37:13 > 0:37:17We need a London for all, not just those dripping in gold.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20We want to put our own people first in our own city.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23We want to see the 3,000 homeless veterans on the streets of London
0:37:23 > 0:37:25housed, we want to see British people housed before
0:37:25 > 0:37:28foreigners and migrants, and we want to confront Islamic
0:37:28 > 0:37:32extremists who are running rampant on the streets of our capital.
0:37:32 > 0:37:34I will help reduce crime.
0:37:34 > 0:37:38I would legalise, regulate and tax cannabis.
0:37:38 > 0:37:41And I want the Notting Hill Carnival, which is there for 50
0:37:41 > 0:37:44years, to remain in the area.
0:37:44 > 0:37:48It is the biggest street event in Europe.
0:37:48 > 0:37:50Well, with me, you get a maharaja as your mayor,
0:37:50 > 0:37:51that is something very rare.
0:37:51 > 0:37:53We have solution technologically advanced.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55We want to build a million homes.
0:37:55 > 0:37:57We want to end the air pollution pandemic.
0:37:57 > 0:37:59We want to take this country to the next level.
0:37:59 > 0:38:00We are the best.
0:38:00 > 0:38:02I want to close London's 23% pay gap.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05I want to make childcare affordable.
0:38:05 > 0:38:07I want to think about what affordable housing means
0:38:07 > 0:38:10for young women who are twice as likely than men to spend more
0:38:10 > 0:38:12than half their salaries on rent.
0:38:12 > 0:38:14And I want to tackle sexual discrimination and
0:38:14 > 0:38:16harassment in the city.
0:38:16 > 0:38:18London needs a million new homes.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20I have been building homes all my life.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22I'm a professional.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24All the others are amateurs.
0:38:24 > 0:38:28They have made tiny targets and even they admit they won't
0:38:28 > 0:38:29keep their promises.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32I'm the only person who can do it.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34The others are time-wasters.
0:38:34 > 0:38:37The other seven candidates bidding to be mayor of our city.
0:38:37 > 0:38:40We have a question next from Thomas Blatchford,
0:38:40 > 0:38:42a student from Ilford.
0:38:42 > 0:38:43Thomas?
0:38:43 > 0:38:47How would candidates invest in transport and stop fares rising?
0:38:47 > 0:38:49Sadiq Khan?
0:38:49 > 0:38:52TfL's budget is ?12 billion a year.
0:38:52 > 0:38:54It is good but it is very flabby.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56Fares have gone through the roof.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58We pay the most expensive fares in all of Europe.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01We need to make it more efficient, cut waste, but also increase
0:39:01 > 0:39:04the revenue streams to TfL.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06Let me give you a couple of examples.
0:39:06 > 0:39:12Last year, TfL spent ?383 million in consultants and agency staff.
0:39:12 > 0:39:14It's doubled in the last eight years.
0:39:14 > 0:39:18We lost ?61 million in fare evasion and we have a separate engineering
0:39:18 > 0:39:20department doing Underground and a separate one
0:39:20 > 0:39:22doing surface trades.
0:39:22 > 0:39:25Why not merge the two and save lots of money?
0:39:25 > 0:39:27There are 450 staff earning more than ?100,000.
0:39:27 > 0:39:31There is not one business in London who hasn't made changes
0:39:31 > 0:39:33in the last six or seven years.
0:39:33 > 0:39:35Are you going to fire them?
0:39:35 > 0:39:38We will make sure we make efficiency savings.
0:39:38 > 0:39:41How many of the 400 earning 100 grand will you fire?
0:39:41 > 0:39:43We won't spend money getting rid of them.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46You will keep them?
0:39:46 > 0:39:48There are huge inefficiencies we have to get rid of.
0:39:48 > 0:39:53You mentioned agency workers, but the unions that sponsor you have
0:39:53 > 0:39:57complained that these agency workers are lowly paid and should be
0:39:57 > 0:40:01replaced by higher-paid workers.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03Why would that be a saving?
0:40:03 > 0:40:06The agency staff bill has doubled in the last eight years.
0:40:06 > 0:40:07The unions complain...
0:40:07 > 0:40:10We should have permanent staff and agency staff
0:40:10 > 0:40:12would cost much more.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16I have a fully-funded plan to freeze fares over the next four years.
0:40:16 > 0:40:20We can reduce consultants by half, we can cut fare evasion...
0:40:20 > 0:40:21Let me give you another example.
0:40:21 > 0:40:23There are 18 separate franchises running our buses.
0:40:23 > 0:40:2740% of the companies are owned by the governments of France,
0:40:27 > 0:40:30Germany and Holland.
0:40:30 > 0:40:32The fares we pay go towards reducing the fares, guess where,
0:40:32 > 0:40:34France, Germany and Holland.
0:40:34 > 0:40:36Why aren't we running these companies ourselves rather
0:40:36 > 0:40:39than giving them to other countries?
0:40:39 > 0:40:43Why not bid for some of these contracts, keep the freehold,
0:40:43 > 0:40:46build affordable homes, we get a revenue stream coming
0:40:46 > 0:40:50in to freeze the fares but we can make sure TfL is far more efficient.
0:40:50 > 0:40:54Zac Goldsmith, how would you handle fares?
0:40:54 > 0:40:56Transport for London's commissioner and the former commissioner have
0:40:56 > 0:40:59both said that the pledge that Sadiq Khan has made
0:40:59 > 0:41:02would cost ?1.9 billion.
0:41:02 > 0:41:05Yes, you can take ?1.9 billion out of the budget but you
0:41:05 > 0:41:07can't do that and also grow the network.
0:41:07 > 0:41:08It's a choice.
0:41:08 > 0:41:10You can do one or the other.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13I believe that if we don't continue to grow the network,
0:41:13 > 0:41:15if we don't improve it, if we don't follow through with
0:41:15 > 0:41:16the vital upgrades...
0:41:16 > 0:41:18That is a 17% increase, Zac.
0:41:18 > 0:41:19We can't afford that.
0:41:19 > 0:41:20You might be able to.
0:41:20 > 0:41:2117% of...
0:41:21 > 0:41:23London would grind to a stand-still.
0:41:23 > 0:41:25Do you think that is fair?
0:41:25 > 0:41:27Have you finished?
0:41:27 > 0:41:28It is not fair.
0:41:28 > 0:41:29Let him answer.
0:41:29 > 0:41:32Take two billion out of the budget, London grinds to a stand-still.
0:41:32 > 0:41:35Even worse than that, you don't unlock the land you need
0:41:35 > 0:41:37if you want to solve the housing crisis.
0:41:37 > 0:41:42The question from our student was how would you stop fares rising?
0:41:42 > 0:41:46I would love, two weeks before this election, where I will need more
0:41:46 > 0:41:49than half of the people who vote in London to give me their first
0:41:49 > 0:41:51or second preference to deliver my action
0:41:51 > 0:41:53plan for Greater London, build on what Boris has done.
0:41:53 > 0:41:55There is nothing I want more...
0:41:55 > 0:41:56You won't do that.
0:41:56 > 0:41:57What would you do?
0:41:57 > 0:41:58There's nothing more...
0:41:58 > 0:42:00What would you do?
0:42:00 > 0:42:03I know that that is a pledge that would be broken on day
0:42:03 > 0:42:06one or if it wasn't, it would be devastating for London.
0:42:06 > 0:42:10Would fares continue to rise under a Zac Goldsmith mayoral town hall?
0:42:10 > 0:42:14I will bear down at every opportunity...
0:42:14 > 0:42:17That is what Boris...
0:42:17 > 0:42:19I will bear down...
0:42:19 > 0:42:23ALL SPEAK AT ONCE
0:42:23 > 0:42:25Look, Boris Johnson told me he would bear down on fares
0:42:25 > 0:42:27and they rose every year.
0:42:27 > 0:42:29So, look, it is a simple question.
0:42:29 > 0:42:33Will, under the TfL plan at the moment, fares are scheduled
0:42:33 > 0:42:37to rise every year by RPI plus 1%.
0:42:37 > 0:42:38Is that what would happen?
0:42:38 > 0:42:40I can't make a pledge on fares.
0:42:40 > 0:42:41I know...
0:42:41 > 0:42:42So they will rise?
0:42:42 > 0:42:44I would love to make that pledge.
0:42:44 > 0:42:45You have said that.
0:42:45 > 0:42:47I am saying, will fares rise?
0:42:47 > 0:42:48Let me explain.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51If you take 1.9 billion out of the budget, London
0:42:51 > 0:42:52grinds to a stand-still.
0:42:52 > 0:42:54I understand that.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57There is a huge question over whether we can afford...
0:42:57 > 0:43:00It is a simple question that the people voting...
0:43:00 > 0:43:03Would we take it that fares will rise 3% a year
0:43:03 > 0:43:05if you are mayor?
0:43:05 > 0:43:08I think 17% is back of the fag packet stuff.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10It is your business plan.
0:43:10 > 0:43:12People will know who's answering the questions.
0:43:12 > 0:43:14Londoners deserve better.
0:43:14 > 0:43:16Sian Berry?
0:43:16 > 0:43:18Neither of their fare plans are good enough.
0:43:18 > 0:43:21Sadiq will impose austerity on Transport for London,
0:43:21 > 0:43:22he will threaten the investment.
0:43:22 > 0:43:25Zac has nothing to offer people.
0:43:25 > 0:43:28What would you offer?
0:43:28 > 0:43:31I would bring down all the fares in outer London because I have met
0:43:31 > 0:43:34too many people who have been forced to move further out
0:43:34 > 0:43:36because of high rents, who are crippled by
0:43:36 > 0:43:37increasing transport costs.
0:43:37 > 0:43:39Have you costed that?
0:43:39 > 0:43:41I want to flatten the fares so...
0:43:41 > 0:43:42Have you costed that?
0:43:42 > 0:43:43I have.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46I will take 10% off the fare income...
0:43:46 > 0:43:49I'm asking you how much it will cost?
0:43:49 > 0:43:51It will cost 10% of the fare income.
0:43:51 > 0:43:54So that's about ?400...
0:43:54 > 0:43:59It could be over ?650 million?
0:43:59 > 0:44:00?700 million...
0:44:00 > 0:44:02And where will you get that from?
0:44:02 > 0:44:05We need to sort out air pollution and congestion in this city
0:44:05 > 0:44:09and we need a new system of congestion charging that is smart
0:44:09 > 0:44:11and fair, charges you for how polluting your car is,
0:44:11 > 0:44:14how far you drive, what type of road you are on.
0:44:14 > 0:44:15How much will it go up by?
0:44:15 > 0:44:18It wouldn't be the congestion charge as we know it,
0:44:18 > 0:44:20it would be a smarter system.
0:44:20 > 0:44:21It would be more?
0:44:21 > 0:44:23It would bring our air pollution within legal limits.
0:44:23 > 0:44:24John Whittle?
0:44:24 > 0:44:25How would you solve the fares problem?
0:44:25 > 0:44:26It's Peter...
0:44:26 > 0:44:28I am sorry, Peter Whittle.
0:44:28 > 0:44:31How would you solve the fares problem?
0:44:31 > 0:44:32The fact is, it's a general infrastructure problem,
0:44:32 > 0:44:34as opposed to fares.
0:44:34 > 0:44:37I would say there are three things.
0:44:37 > 0:44:44Shocking waste and bloated salaries at TfL, which we would cut.
0:44:44 > 0:44:48Some of these people are on upwards of ?500,000 to a ?1 million.
0:44:48 > 0:44:50No-one should earn more than the Prime Minister.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52You are running out of time.
0:44:52 > 0:44:56We could campaign to cancel HS2, ?80 billion, and we do not need
0:44:56 > 0:45:00garden bridges or Emirates cable cars, these vanity projects
0:45:00 > 0:45:02which cost so much money.
0:45:02 > 0:45:03Right.
0:45:03 > 0:45:04We need to put it...
0:45:04 > 0:45:06Caroline Pidgeon, the final word?
0:45:06 > 0:45:08He doesn't care, and his plans don't stack up.
0:45:08 > 0:45:12Imagine you are a nurse or a cleaner and you go in really
0:45:12 > 0:45:14early in the morning and you spend your first
0:45:14 > 0:45:17few hours trying to pay for your fare to get to work.
0:45:17 > 0:45:19That is why we will bring in half price fares
0:45:19 > 0:45:20by half-seven in the morning.
0:45:20 > 0:45:22If you use the Tube and DLR...
0:45:22 > 0:45:24So get up early and travel more cheaply.
0:45:24 > 0:45:26Very well.
0:45:26 > 0:45:28You will get half price fares as well...
0:45:28 > 0:45:31I get up at 6.00 every morning, so I look forward to benefitting...
0:45:31 > 0:45:35They are still talking, but that is all the time we have.
0:45:35 > 0:45:39If you want to have your say, you can call into BBC Radio London
0:45:39 > 0:45:40right now.
0:45:40 > 0:45:43Duncan Barkes is standing by to take your calls.
0:45:43 > 0:45:45From everybody here, goodnight.
0:45:46 > 0:45:53APPLAUSE