:00:12. > :00:20.Welcome to Wembley where 6000 people are waiting inside the arena for the
:00:21. > :00:24.great BBC referendum debate. I am Jane Hill and in the next hour we
:00:25. > :00:33.will be counting down to that crucial decision for the UK. Buses
:00:34. > :00:40.containing representatives for both Remain, including the London mayor
:00:41. > :00:45.and Leave, including Boris Johnson, have arrived in the last couple of
:00:46. > :00:49.hours. They are due to face rigorous questioning this evening.
:00:50. > :00:54.I am the Shell Hussain inside the arena, which is filling up fast.
:00:55. > :01:00.Soon the entire audience of 6000 will be in place. Join me as we look
:01:01. > :01:06.ahead to see what the discussion is going to be like.
:01:07. > :01:10.I am live in the spin room at Wembley Arena where journalists,
:01:11. > :01:14.commentators and politicians will be putting their gloss on tonight's
:01:15. > :01:19.debate. That is all coming up here in the
:01:20. > :01:49.next hour in our countdown to the great BBC debate.
:01:50. > :01:56.Welcome to Wembley, where in just under an hour, 6000 people will be
:01:57. > :02:01.in the audience in the biggest debate of this referendum campaign.
:02:02. > :02:05.It has been quite a day here. The first audience members started
:02:06. > :02:11.arriving about 11 o'clock this morning. Leading figures from the
:02:12. > :02:15.Remain and Leave camps, including Boris Johnson the Leave and the New
:02:16. > :02:22.London Mayor the Remain are among the panellists taking part in this
:02:23. > :02:27.two-hour BBC debate. The two camps arriving on their battle buses in
:02:28. > :02:33.the last hour and a half or so. Very much the Final Countdown. Let's
:02:34. > :02:38.headfirst and hear from some of the people who have been queueing for
:02:39. > :02:40.many hours to get into the arena. Clive has been out and about with
:02:41. > :02:48.the crowds. The queue is snaking all the way
:02:49. > :02:53.around in front of the arena. The first person turned up at 11
:02:54. > :02:57.o'clock. That is how keen some people are to get their voice heard
:02:58. > :03:01.in this debate. A few thousand people are already inside. I would
:03:02. > :03:05.say probably another 1000 also waiting to go in and take up their
:03:06. > :03:09.seats. Everyone looking forward to the possibility of hearing the real
:03:10. > :03:12.argument from both the remain and leave camps as to how perhaps they
:03:13. > :03:17.should be casting their ballot. Let's talk to some of the people in
:03:18. > :03:20.the crowd. I see from your button you are in. Is there anything
:03:21. > :03:27.tonight that would convince you to go the other way? Absolutely not. I
:03:28. > :03:32.am steadfast. Fixed in my view it is the best thing for the UK and for
:03:33. > :03:38.Europe if Britain remains in the EU. Thanks for joining us. Let's wander
:03:39. > :03:43.down further. Someone, Britain is stronger in. Let's see who else we
:03:44. > :03:55.can find. Hello, how will you be voting on Thursday? I will be voting
:03:56. > :04:00.to remain. Why is that? I just feel on the balance of things, it makes
:04:01. > :04:07.more sense. On an economic level and how I feel about the world. Thank
:04:08. > :04:12.you very much. Let's find a few more people who we can talk to. Hello,
:04:13. > :04:18.how will you be voting? I will be voting to leave. There is a number
:04:19. > :04:24.of reasons for that. Having an unelected elite dictating your laws
:04:25. > :04:30.is not acceptable in the modern era. Furthermore, it is not growing
:04:31. > :04:35.compared to the rest of the world. I am or immigration, but I just think
:04:36. > :04:39.you have got to control it. It is discriminating in a way, talented
:04:40. > :04:42.nurses and places like the Philippines and the Caribbean, they
:04:43. > :04:48.cannot come here. Where is anyone from Europe can. It is time to move
:04:49. > :04:52.on and be a more free and controlled country. Is there anything you could
:04:53. > :05:01.hear tonight that might change your mind? I have done two research of --
:05:02. > :05:09.two years of research. Thank you for joining us. So, all kinds of views
:05:10. > :05:15.going to be on show. Of course, it is up to the likes of study calm the
:05:16. > :05:19.Remain and Boris Johnson for Leave, to convince people out here that
:05:20. > :05:24.there side is the camp they should be in.
:05:25. > :05:29.We will have more from Clive later. Let's take a few minutes at this
:05:30. > :05:32.hour to think about what each side needs to achieve tonight in the
:05:33. > :05:38.great debate. Vicky Young has been monitoring all the events and the
:05:39. > :05:43.weeks events for many weeks. With so little time left before people go to
:05:44. > :05:47.the polling station, what do you think each camp will be thinking,
:05:48. > :05:55.what do they want to achieve? They both think it is close. It is very
:05:56. > :05:59.hard, the polls, have nothing to judge it against because it is so
:06:00. > :06:06.long since the last referendum on the EU. Everyone is in the dark. You
:06:07. > :06:10.can just tell the nerves, from the way they are behaving, they think it
:06:11. > :06:16.is close. This is a last opportunity to reach, not just the 6000 people
:06:17. > :06:19.in the audience, but a much wider audience watching on TV and
:06:20. > :06:24.listening on the radio. It could change minds. People who are still
:06:25. > :06:30.undecided or could be persuaded either way, it could be crucial for
:06:31. > :06:34.them, what they hear. It is head-to-head, three on each side.
:06:35. > :06:38.People will be looking at Boris Johnson. The Leave feel it plays to
:06:39. > :06:43.his strengths Hannibal get the crowd going and get a good reception. They
:06:44. > :06:47.need to go beyond that and make sure people are taking in his serious
:06:48. > :06:53.message. He will say again about taking back control. On the Remain
:06:54. > :06:59.side, they are very keen to talk about workers' writes. They feel or
:07:00. > :07:03.dairy people haven't had enough of a say and that is why they have got
:07:04. > :07:09.Sadiq Khan on the stage, France's O Grady from the TUC, to talk about
:07:10. > :07:12.and more positive message from staying in the European Union. And
:07:13. > :07:18.Ruth Davidson, well-known to Scottish audiences, add big chance
:07:19. > :07:23.for her. I think she will have a go at Boris Johnson. They are both
:07:24. > :07:28.conservatives but she has been critical of him and his style in the
:07:29. > :07:33.past. She will have some well rehearsed one-liners to send his
:07:34. > :07:40.way. Do we have any sense of the proportion of voters who are as yet
:07:41. > :07:45.uncertain. Those are the people they want to capture, someone who doesn't
:07:46. > :07:50.know with only 36 hours to go that their votes are up for grabs. David
:07:51. > :07:55.Cameron coming outside in front of Downing Street saying and talking
:07:56. > :07:58.about Downing Street, talking about being Prime Minister, trying to get
:07:59. > :08:02.across to people, probably those he thinks he could persuade to go and
:08:03. > :08:10.vote Remain. He needs to get them out to vote. He was saying as his
:08:11. > :08:13.personal experience, sitting inside Downing Street, reading the security
:08:14. > :08:20.briefings, the security message, saying to people, don't take the
:08:21. > :08:26.risk. You may hate the EU, he talks himself about being sceptical of the
:08:27. > :08:35.EU. That is the type of person he is trying to get through to. They say
:08:36. > :08:38.half Billy McClure most people in the United Kingdom are Eurosceptic,
:08:39. > :08:42.but half on to say and half want to go. People are suggesting there
:08:43. > :08:47.could be ten or 15% of people undecided. But those who say they
:08:48. > :08:50.will vote one way or the other, whether they turn out to vote and
:08:51. > :08:56.whether they change their mind at the last minute. Let's talk about
:08:57. > :09:00.turnout, will there be a drive from both sides for what the Americans
:09:01. > :09:06.call, get out the vote. Encouraging people to go to the polling station
:09:07. > :09:10.on Thursday. The perceived wisdom, not sure what we basing this on, but
:09:11. > :09:17.the pollsters suggest a big vote would help Remain. There is a
:09:18. > :09:21.feeling those who want big change, to leave the EU, have passionately
:09:22. > :09:26.fought for this for decades. Many members of Parliament on the
:09:27. > :09:29.conservative side, they are more passionate, more galvanised and they
:09:30. > :09:34.are more likely to vote because they are voting for change. Where as
:09:35. > :09:38.voting to the status quo, people might not be as determined to do it.
:09:39. > :09:46.So the message from the Remain side has been, there are risks if we
:09:47. > :09:50.leave. We cannot carry on as normal. It is about trying to say to them,
:09:51. > :09:55.they think there will be a big impact on the economy. That is why
:09:56. > :10:00.they have been pushing this message. It is clear from the panel tonight
:10:01. > :10:04.on the Remain side, it is the Labour voters they are concerned about and
:10:05. > :10:08.that is why we have seen Jeremy Corbyn and other Labour figures out
:10:09. > :10:12.and about trying to get the message across. There are some on the Remain
:10:13. > :10:22.side who think it is too late. But it is going to be close. Thank you
:10:23. > :10:30.very much for now. Let's head inside the arena behind me. We can get more
:10:31. > :10:34.from Michelle Hussain. Hello and welcome inside Wembley
:10:35. > :10:39.Arena. I am pretty sure it is the only time in my career I am going to
:10:40. > :10:46.be able to say I am on stage at Wembley! Welcome from everyone here,
:10:47. > :10:51.the panel, who I will introduce you to. And the audience, nearly all in
:10:52. > :11:01.their seats, 6000 people, nearly 50 minutes to go before we begin.
:11:02. > :11:07.Everyone here is either Leave Remain, but they are mingled. Down
:11:08. > :11:12.at the other end, that is the main stage where David Dimbleby will be
:11:13. > :11:16.flanked on one side for this Leave campaign by Boris Johnson, Geisler
:11:17. > :11:22.Stewart and Andrea led some. On the other side of him for the Remain
:11:23. > :11:29.campaign, Ruth Davidson, Sadiq Khan and Frances O'Grady. At this end,
:11:30. > :11:33.this is where I have another panel, this time with five representatives
:11:34. > :11:39.of each side of the debate, so five levers, five remain as and they will
:11:40. > :11:43.be reacting to what is said on the main stage, the questions that come
:11:44. > :11:47.in from the audience on the key issues and the heart of the debate
:11:48. > :11:51.will be across the room. Let me start by introducing them to you.
:11:52. > :11:58.Pretty Patel, Conservative MP, employment Minister. Tony Parsons,
:11:59. > :12:11.Mrs Wright Corp, Diane James, Tim Martin, they are all on the Leave
:12:12. > :12:21.side. And, Remain, Hamza Yusuf of the SNP. Caroline Lucas, Green party
:12:22. > :12:26.MEP. Tim Farron, leader of the Liberal Democrats. Justin King who
:12:27. > :12:34.ran Sainsbury's for ten years and Sarah Wollaston, Conservative MP. A
:12:35. > :12:40.warm welcome to you all. Sarah Wollaston, what does it feel like,
:12:41. > :12:45.have you ever played a crowd as big as this? I have never played at
:12:46. > :12:49.Wembley, great atmosphere. What will it feel like to make your arguments
:12:50. > :12:53.in a setting like this. Very important, many people still trying
:12:54. > :12:59.to make up their minds. It is a great opportunity to make our case.
:13:00. > :13:02.The audience is here in the room, but a massive television audience
:13:03. > :13:12.watching on BBC One and around the world and on BBC World News. The
:13:13. > :13:18.complexities of this, pretty Patel. Does this feel different? It is an
:13:19. > :13:22.important debate. Obviously the British public will decide the
:13:23. > :13:26.outcome of the referendum, and rightly so. Tonight, it will be an
:13:27. > :13:29.interesting and lively debate and I think the public at home will be
:13:30. > :13:35.informed by what they hear this evening. Does it feel different to
:13:36. > :13:41.other campaign events? Absolutely, this is about the public, it is a
:13:42. > :13:45.big forum as well. We will be hearing a range of views from both
:13:46. > :13:49.sides. But outside of here, people like me and the campaign team have
:13:50. > :13:54.been knocking on doors and getting out and about the country. On this
:13:55. > :14:00.panel we have politicians and business people as well. Also on the
:14:01. > :14:08.Leave side, Tim Martin, founder and chairman of Wetherspoon 's. I am
:14:09. > :14:13.only popular for the beer. The thought did cross my mind. Why do
:14:14. > :14:18.you want Britain to leave the EU? I think democracy is the key to
:14:19. > :14:21.prosperity and freedom, including freedom of the press...
:14:22. > :14:25.??CHEERING AND APPLAUSE The EU is becoming undemocratic and
:14:26. > :14:30.that is having a bad, economic effect on Greece, Portugal and modes
:14:31. > :14:36.other EU countries. What of your business, the economic risks and the
:14:37. > :14:42.livelihoods of the people you employ. Day one of leaving, we will
:14:43. > :14:47.pay less for food because of the tariff on food from outside the EU.
:14:48. > :14:52.Most of our wine comes from outside the EU so our customers can look
:14:53. > :14:59.forward to lower prices and in the shops. Let me see what Justin King,
:15:00. > :15:06.who ran Sainsbury's for a decade things of that, will we enjoy those
:15:07. > :15:13.lower prices? Not if we leave, food prices will go up. Because we have,
:15:14. > :15:17.in the UK, the greatest variety, the best value for money food anywhere
:15:18. > :15:21.in the world, because we have the best supermarkets who have those
:15:22. > :15:24.businesses for 40 years trading in Europe. The vast majority of food
:15:25. > :15:30.comes from the UK and from within the EU. It would be massively
:15:31. > :15:36.disruptive leaving the EU. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
:15:37. > :15:41.Let me get the view of another politicians. Hamza Yusuf,
:15:42. > :15:46.immigration will come up tonight, your party has campaigned for more
:15:47. > :15:50.immigration to Scotland? We have to be honest, immigrants and migrants
:15:51. > :15:56.have contributed more to our society than they have taken out. The
:15:57. > :16:00.toxicity and the vitriol of this debate needs to be taken out of it.
:16:01. > :16:05.Look for every Polish plumber in the UK, there is a Brit sunning
:16:06. > :16:09.themselves in retirement on the Costa Del Sol. There are more
:16:10. > :16:16.European citizens living in the UK... But they contribute more than
:16:17. > :16:22.they take out. 10% of all UK doctors are EU migrants. You are more likely
:16:23. > :16:27.to be treated by in EU Doctor... CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
:16:28. > :16:33.I am keen to know what Diane James from Ukip makes of that. I didn't
:16:34. > :16:39.hear the question or the answer, the noise is too much. It is a fantastic
:16:40. > :16:44.atmosphere, Hamza Yusuf making the point about the contribution
:16:45. > :16:48.migrants make to the society? The Isner problem with that, but look at
:16:49. > :16:57.the total cost migrants cost to the economy. Very interesting studies.
:16:58. > :17:04.UCL claims 20 billion contribution, buried in the annex, 95 Oleon costs.
:17:05. > :17:08.Didn't want to acknowledge the pressures on hospitals, schools and
:17:09. > :17:11.infrastructure. If we go to the Australian size system, we can have
:17:12. > :17:15.the migrants who will contribute and not drain the economy. There are
:17:16. > :17:22.many other studies and there were figures from the HMRC from a couple
:17:23. > :17:26.of years ago that showed migrants made a net contribution to the
:17:27. > :17:33.Treasury. Tim Farron, leader of the Liberal Democrats. How would you
:17:34. > :17:37.respond. The net contribution to our economy is enormous. I believe, as a
:17:38. > :17:43.Liberal Democrat, immigration is much more of a blessing than it has
:17:44. > :17:47.ever been done a curse. One of the worries in this campaign is
:17:48. > :17:52.migration has been used as a dog whistle to bring out the worst in
:17:53. > :17:56.our society and I believe Britain is better than that. It is about what
:17:57. > :18:00.kind of country are we? Are we an outward looking, tolerant, decent
:18:01. > :18:05.country or are we narrow and small, isolated and fearful of the outside
:18:06. > :18:12.world. I know what kind of country I want to bring my children up in. I
:18:13. > :18:14.want to turn to Tony Parsons whose work will be known to many people,
:18:15. > :18:20.author and columnist. What kind of country do you want? I want our
:18:21. > :18:29.country to send a cry of freedom that echoes around Europe. The EU
:18:30. > :18:34.has failed the people of Europe. The currency is kaput, the borders are
:18:35. > :18:41.kaput. Youth unemployment of 50% in Mediterranean countries... What
:18:42. > :18:45.about the UK? We are doing God, but we would be doing better if the
:18:46. > :18:51.people of Europe got their currency sorted out so they could buy our
:18:52. > :18:55.stuff. It is a 20th-century idea. Although we get derided as little
:18:56. > :19:01.Englanders, we want to embrace the world, what is wrong with that?
:19:02. > :19:07.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Your day job is at Morrisons, but
:19:08. > :19:14.you're part of Women For Britain under the Leave umbrella. I got
:19:15. > :19:18.involved because we want a forward-looking, out looking decent
:19:19. > :19:23.country, but how can we have that if we don't have a fair immigration
:19:24. > :19:29.system. Why are we ignoring the rest of the world and only saying
:19:30. > :19:33.European citizens can come here. We need a global response to
:19:34. > :19:42.immigration. Would you be happy to see greater migration numbers
:19:43. > :19:47.overall? It is not about that, it is having a fair response and having an
:19:48. > :19:49.Australian -based points system meaning we can control immigration,
:19:50. > :19:55.that it can come from all over the world with the right skills. Give
:19:56. > :20:00.people a chance to have a greater standard of living from around the
:20:01. > :20:08.world. Just for a final thought, I want to come to the Remain side and
:20:09. > :20:12.Caroline Lucas. Immigration is something we have heard a lot of
:20:13. > :20:17.during the campaign from the Leave side, how do you counter that
:20:18. > :20:21.argument? Freedom of movement is something we should celebrate,
:20:22. > :20:26.rather than apologise for. The fact we have the right to live, love and
:20:27. > :20:32.study, work and retire across 27 other countries is a wonderful
:20:33. > :20:35.thing. Those people coming to our country bring with them and economic
:20:36. > :20:40.dividend, what I would like to see is the money invested in services in
:20:41. > :20:44.neglected areas. In particular, in leisure centres, libraries so people
:20:45. > :20:49.can come together. It doesn't have to be the scary thing the other side
:20:50. > :20:57.would have you believe. Thank you very much. That gives you a flavour
:20:58. > :21:02.of what it is going to be like here. Don't forget you can follow the
:21:03. > :21:08.debate and joint on the hash tag BBC debate, as well as watching on BBC
:21:09. > :21:10.News and on BBC One from eight o'clock. Jane Hill, back to you.
:21:11. > :21:25.Many thanks. The very last, I think, members of the audience have just
:21:26. > :21:29.run into the arena behind me. Just starting to dismantle the barriers.
:21:30. > :21:34.People arrived so very early. We spoke to the first two people to get
:21:35. > :21:39.here at 11:30 a.m., a mother and daughter who came from Essex who
:21:40. > :21:42.wanted to be at the front. So presumably they are right at the
:21:43. > :21:48.front of the audience inside. The very last few members of the
:21:49. > :21:52.audience are in. Let's head back into another area here at Wembley.
:21:53. > :22:00.Clive is now in the spin room, which will be all important later on.
:22:01. > :22:05.Yes indeed. All the viewers out there, when they turn on the radio
:22:06. > :22:10.and TV tomorrow, by a newspaper, online, the interpretation of this
:22:11. > :22:15.debate will have been formulated in this room, the spin room. There are
:22:16. > :22:20.journalists, pundits and commentators. Later on there will be
:22:21. > :22:24.politicians, everybody putting their particular gloss on this debate.
:22:25. > :22:28.Perhaps making it a rosy picture for the Remain side and maybe a rosy
:22:29. > :22:37.picture for those on the Leave side. Joel Twyman, Owen Bennett and George
:22:38. > :22:43.Barker. Thanks for being with us. Joel, we know the polls are tight,
:22:44. > :22:49.how tight are they? Extremely. We have had a little leave the
:22:50. > :22:53.liam-macro league for both sides. They are neck and neck. These
:22:54. > :22:59.debates have the potential to change things even with so few days to go.
:23:00. > :23:04.As in Scotland, people can decide at the last minute. They could be a
:23:05. > :23:08.massive mistake, there could be a knockout blow. It is unlikely but it
:23:09. > :23:15.could change things for either side. Both could still win it and they
:23:16. > :23:19.could win it a night. What do Leave have to do tonight? They need
:23:20. > :23:24.optimism and any positivity, and brush off the breaking point poster
:23:25. > :23:30.from Nigel Farage. They need to give the sense that leaving the EU would
:23:31. > :23:34.be good for the country and keep harking back to the bad things. We
:23:35. > :23:39.want the good reason to change something. That is what Leave have
:23:40. > :23:44.to get across. George, what do Remain have to do to convince those
:23:45. > :23:51.potentially swing voters? You will hear lots of project fear, the idea
:23:52. > :23:57.of it being a jump into the dark and challenging the Remain side, saying
:23:58. > :24:02.what would it mean. Then they will take on the argument is that Leave
:24:03. > :24:07.have been making. Britain will not join in European army, we don't give
:24:08. > :24:11.?350 million a year and Turkey isn't about to join the European Union. I
:24:12. > :24:15.was out with the crowds earlier talking to lots of different people.
:24:16. > :24:21.A lot of people have made up their minds. I found it difficult to find
:24:22. > :24:25.any undecideds out there, has but being the reading from YouGov? One
:24:26. > :24:34.in ten people say they are undecided. But it is whether the the
:24:35. > :24:43.people vote either side, but whether they vote at all. Leave can point to
:24:44. > :24:51.the 4 million people who voted Ukip at the last election. They will walk
:24:52. > :24:56.across broken glass to vote Leave. It will be trying to engage them and
:24:57. > :25:00.getting them off the so for even if it is raining on Thursday. Big
:25:01. > :25:08.turnout, is the big point in this? You are right, it is whether the
:25:09. > :25:16.Remain people have the same passion as the Leave campaign. There might
:25:17. > :25:24.be some people who are shy to say they want to remain. So turnout is
:25:25. > :25:29.key. I think you will see the big turnout that Leave, it is whether
:25:30. > :25:34.Remain can come out. The London mayor is on the panel tonight, is it
:25:35. > :25:40.surprising that it is not Jeremy Corbyn or Mr Johnson from the Labour
:25:41. > :25:43.Party? They have tried to field clean skins, people you haven't
:25:44. > :25:49.necessarily heard about, fresh faces. People have been bored with
:25:50. > :26:00.the same message is being put out by the same messengers. The London
:26:01. > :26:04.mayor got the biggest turnout and Frances O'Grady, from the TUC and
:26:05. > :26:08.raised Davidson from the Scottish Conservatives. All three may
:26:09. > :26:14.surprise. David Cameron wants to avoid a slip-up. I think he thinks
:26:15. > :26:18.he can win from this position. The fact you have three people you
:26:19. > :26:23.haven't heard of so much is a less strategy than putting a big name up
:26:24. > :26:28.like George Osborne. Do you think there has been a sense of, I have
:26:29. > :26:35.seen it all before, I have heard it all before, I want somebody to take
:26:36. > :26:39.me down the right path, voters weary of this long campaign? The problem
:26:40. > :26:45.is, you have a group of people who are bored of things, tiring of what
:26:46. > :26:48.is my uncertainty is bigger than your uncertainty. But there is a
:26:49. > :26:53.great that haven't been engaged yet and haven't been interested. The
:26:54. > :26:56.attempt with these three, new people, if you like, people who
:26:57. > :27:01.haven't been on the campaign trail in the same way, the attempt will be
:27:02. > :27:05.to engage people who perhaps haven't been paying attention or have turned
:27:06. > :27:13.off. And the issues, the economy, got to be big tonight? It is the big
:27:14. > :27:17.one. Millions of jobs being lost, that figure has been discredited.
:27:18. > :27:23.When people get in the polling booth, they will be thinking, is it
:27:24. > :27:27.my job. That is what the Leave campaign have got to paint the
:27:28. > :27:33.picture of, your job is safe and economy will not take a massive hit.
:27:34. > :27:38.It will take a small head, it is how long it will last four. They have
:27:39. > :27:40.got to smooth over that a little bit, but the economy will be a big
:27:41. > :27:45.issue. The Achilles heel, some suggest that the Remain camp,
:27:46. > :27:50.immigration? David Cameron hasn't been able to give the right answer
:27:51. > :27:55.people want to hear. He is bound up by this target of tens of thousands
:27:56. > :27:59.which is unachievable in the European Union. They will try to
:28:00. > :28:03.move the argument straight back onto the economy whenever they can. David
:28:04. > :28:08.Cameron thinks that the economy will trump immigration. There has been
:28:09. > :28:11.some polling in the past where people have said immigration is the
:28:12. > :28:15.biggest problem facing the country, but when they get into the polling
:28:16. > :28:22.booth, they are thinking about their pockets. Is that what could be
:28:23. > :28:27.happening? Yes, most people say one of the most important issues is
:28:28. > :28:30.immigration. But when you ask what is the most important issue facing
:28:31. > :28:35.their family, it comes back to the economy. People are saying I don't
:28:36. > :28:39.like immigration, not keen on the EU, I don't even like the
:28:40. > :28:44.government, but is that this like so great I'm willing to risk the
:28:45. > :28:50.situation. I think some people will change their minds at the last
:28:51. > :28:53.minute. A lot of people will bottle it and vote Remain. But we will see
:28:54. > :28:58.and we still have some time remaining. It is very tight indeed.
:28:59. > :29:05.Elwyn, that sends people might bottle it, it is such a big,
:29:06. > :29:08.momentous decision the first vote of its kind for longer than a
:29:09. > :29:12.generation. Do you think people will be conservative in the end and
:29:13. > :29:18.think, I am not going to go over this? People might look over the
:29:19. > :29:21.precipice and take a step back. Some of the rhetoric from the Leave
:29:22. > :29:29.campaign will turn people off. People will get into the polling
:29:30. > :29:34.booth and think do I want to be associated with people who put out
:29:35. > :29:40.that immigration poster. It has cast a bit of a shadow over this
:29:41. > :29:43.campaign. George, those on the Leave side, they are passionate and
:29:44. > :29:47.committed. I have talked a lot of them today and they really want to
:29:48. > :29:53.get in, they have an opinion and they want to make it heard on
:29:54. > :29:57.Thursday. It is quite possible there could be a Leave vote. We haven't
:29:58. > :30:02.had a referendum like this for over 40 years. The only approximate guide
:30:03. > :30:09.is the Scottish referendum whether did seem to be a last-minute lean
:30:10. > :30:15.towards safety and the better the devil you know. I am in the spin
:30:16. > :30:20.room, so everything they just said could be out of all proportion and
:30:21. > :30:24.make no sense by this time tomorrow morning. Jane, back to you.
:30:25. > :30:31.I would have loved to hear what all of your guests were saying, but it
:30:32. > :30:41.is difficult to hear because there is a van driving up and down the
:30:42. > :30:49.street playing a very long song -- loud song. Just tell you if you
:30:50. > :30:53.comments that have come through in the last few minutes from the
:30:54. > :30:57.European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker, who has been
:30:58. > :31:01.speaking in Athens this evening, saying that Britain voting to leave
:31:02. > :31:07.the EU would be an act of self harm. He said in to turn your back on your
:31:08. > :31:13.neighbours and retreat into isolation would go against
:31:14. > :31:24.everything the UK and Europe stands for. He has been talking in Athens.
:31:25. > :31:28.Upon this, the penultimate day of campaigning, both sides have been
:31:29. > :31:34.out in force. David Cameron has made a direct appeal to, in particular,
:31:35. > :31:38.the older generation, to vote to stay in the European Union. He said
:31:39. > :31:45.they should think about their children and grandchildren when they
:31:46. > :31:48.go into the voting booth. That came after a former adviser to the Prime
:31:49. > :31:52.Minister said David Cameron had been told for Magri years ago it would be
:31:53. > :31:59.impossible to meet the government's migration target. -- four years ago.
:32:00. > :32:09.When this thing comes out you know it is serious. A battle between
:32:10. > :32:14.heart to save these, and heads -- a battle between hearts that say leave
:32:15. > :32:19.and heads that they remain. It'll just be you in that polling booth,
:32:20. > :32:22.just you making a decision on your future, your children's future and
:32:23. > :32:28.your grandchildren 's future. It is stronger if we stay. If we leave we
:32:29. > :32:35.put it at risk. There is no going back. And it isn't just about future
:32:36. > :32:40.years. Those who want to remain say that the stock market could tumble
:32:41. > :32:45.if Britain voted out. But a former adviser to the PM says he is
:32:46. > :32:51.struggling and he knew for Magri years ago that he would never hit
:32:52. > :32:57.his migration targets by staying in the EU. -- four years ago. They've
:32:58. > :33:01.lost the argument on immigration. I think that is why they are losing
:33:02. > :33:05.overall. As we were warned in government many years ago, it was
:33:06. > :33:09.impossible for the British government to meet its target on
:33:10. > :33:12.immigration as long as we were in the EU. Leaders believe they are the
:33:13. > :33:19.ones who draw the crowd. Nigel Farage bee attack on migration
:33:20. > :33:25.strikes a chord with voters. -- Nigel Farage's attack. This is what
:33:26. > :33:27.we will be fighting for, getting back the control of our borders, and
:33:28. > :33:32.easing the pressure on public services. The Labour leader is more
:33:33. > :33:38.supportive of migration in this campaign than anybody else. I don't
:33:39. > :33:43.care where a doctor or nurse has come from, high-value their skills,
:33:44. > :33:47.dedication, and professionalism. Our NHS is an example of what people
:33:48. > :33:50.working together can achieve. Tonight, the rivals have arrived at
:33:51. > :34:01.Wembley for a big set piece of the campaign. The BBC's debate. Boris
:34:02. > :34:05.Johnson might be the leave party's best candidate, and Sadiq Khan for
:34:06. > :34:09.the other side. We have heard the worries about mass migration. Now it
:34:10. > :34:15.is about who can reach the heart and mind in the final hours of
:34:16. > :34:19.campaigning. -- Hart Aitor and minds.
:34:20. > :34:24.If we wake up on Friday morning to learn that Britain has indeed voted
:34:25. > :34:35.to leave the EU, what happens after that? Let's ask Rowena Moffat, a
:34:36. > :34:39.barrister, and an expert in EU law. If that is the case, come Friday,
:34:40. > :34:46.fair to assume nothing will happen quickly? Exactly. On Friday if we
:34:47. > :34:50.wake up with a leave vote nothing will happen in legal terms at that
:34:51. > :34:56.point. Politically that might be a different story, who knows what will
:34:57. > :35:01.happen. But legally all it will mean is that we will, at some point, be
:35:02. > :35:07.starting the process, which are under the EU treaties, to leave the
:35:08. > :35:11.EU. That means that there is an article in the EU Treaty which says
:35:12. > :35:19.we have two server vindication to leave. -- we have to serve an
:35:20. > :35:23.indication. There is no way out of that process once that has started.
:35:24. > :35:30.Is there a time frame for that to happen, does it happen relatively
:35:31. > :35:38.quickly? There is an outer limit of two years after a negotiation for an
:35:39. > :35:42.agreement to withdraw. There is an option to extend it. But we are
:35:43. > :35:54.looking at at least a period of two years. If David Cameron gives the
:35:55. > :35:59.notification to the EU, he indicated after two weeks if we do. But who
:36:00. > :36:05.knows what will happen politically, because it is anybody's guess. In
:36:06. > :36:11.legal terms we have this two year figure. But it is important to say
:36:12. > :36:17.that it is two years of negotiation. But it will take a longer time to
:36:18. > :36:22.renegotiate our trading agreements with the EU. For example, the Canada
:36:23. > :36:29.EU negotiation has taken more than five years. It is going to be a long
:36:30. > :36:33.process. If it takes five years, for example, does it mean that for those
:36:34. > :36:39.five years, actually, Britain is still part of the EU? So in terms of
:36:40. > :36:43.borders, travelling, people coming and going, people going on holiday,
:36:44. > :36:50.all of those things are not affected, and remain the same? It
:36:51. > :36:54.depends. It depends on whether the other member states agree on the
:36:55. > :36:59.extension of the two year period. If they do, and it could take five
:37:00. > :37:03.years, in legal terms we would remain. It would be difficult to say
:37:04. > :37:08.it would be business as usual. There would be changed. There would be a
:37:09. > :37:13.different state of play. If the other EU member states don't agree
:37:14. > :37:17.to extend the two year period, at that point we would leave the EU
:37:18. > :37:20.after two years without an agreement, potentially. It is
:37:21. > :37:28.unlikely that would happen. But it is an option. We would fall back on
:37:29. > :37:31.residual WTO trading rules and residual domestic immigration law in
:37:32. > :37:38.the UK and other member states. It is an uncertain process. We have
:37:39. > :37:41.heard so much in this campaign about trade, the economy, jobs, so all of
:37:42. > :37:48.those trade agreements that we would have to then strike business we
:37:49. > :37:53.would need to strike so they can carry on trading, that takes as long
:37:54. > :38:00.as it takes, as well? Your guess is as good as mine on the time period.
:38:01. > :38:03.It'll be a long process. Because so much centred on immigration in this
:38:04. > :38:08.debate, it is unlikely we will become like or Switzerland. It would
:38:09. > :38:17.mean that we would remain in the same set of rules with regards to
:38:18. > :38:24.the movement of people. -- Norway also seven. It would be the same.
:38:25. > :38:34.There is no easy solution if we don't want to have migration as it
:38:35. > :38:41.remains as it is currently. -- it is unlikely we will become like a
:38:42. > :38:48.Norway or Switzerland. Touching on some of the key issues of this
:38:49. > :38:54.there. Those issues are going to make up some of the key issues which
:38:55. > :38:57.will be debated tonight at Wembley, particularly immigration, business,
:38:58. > :38:59.and economics. Let's hear more about what might be discussed. Christian
:39:00. > :39:06.Fraser has been looking at that. As we head into the final frenetic
:39:07. > :39:10.stages of the campaign we will get more claim and counterclaim. We
:39:11. > :39:15.thought it would be useful to look in more detail at some of the key
:39:16. > :39:18.issues. These have been central to the debate. We will start with
:39:19. > :39:41.travel. Some facts: Let's focus on where the two sides
:39:42. > :39:50.stand on travel and living abroad... Starting with Remain.
:39:51. > :39:56.That is the open skies regime which has been negotiated within Europe.
:39:57. > :40:06.And the recent deal on roaming charges.
:40:07. > :40:13.A lot of you talked about this, the European health insurance card,
:40:14. > :40:16.which, at the moment, allows anybody living in an EEC country to get
:40:17. > :40:40.reduced or free health care abroad. Since we are focusing on laws, let's
:40:41. > :40:41.turn to the other big theme within this debate, and that is
:40:42. > :41:01.sovereignty. Some facts: They have to be approved by 16 of
:41:02. > :41:07.the 28 countries, that is around 65% of the European Union population.
:41:08. > :41:12.They then have to be ratified and approved by European Parliament.
:41:13. > :41:18.Again, we will look at where the two sides stand on sovereignty and law,
:41:19. > :41:32.this time starting with Leave. We have heard from Michael Gove,
:41:33. > :41:33.Secretary of State for Justice, that there are people he cannot remove
:41:34. > :41:39.because of EU law. The issue of EU army came up
:41:40. > :42:07.recently. Just a reminder that if you would
:42:08. > :42:11.like a great, in-depth look at some of the issues that we are talking
:42:12. > :42:16.about you can have a look on our website.
:42:17. > :42:17.This is a shorthand guide to all of the issues and where two sides
:42:18. > :42:32.stand. Let's head back inside here at
:42:33. > :42:41.Wembley and get a little bit more from the spin room. Spinning has
:42:42. > :42:44.already started... Pencils are being sharpened, laptops
:42:45. > :42:48.at the ready, we have about 20 minutes to go before the big debate.
:42:49. > :42:53.All of the commentators and pundits and we will get politicians in here
:42:54. > :43:00.later, they will all be putting their particular loss on tonight's
:43:01. > :43:14.debate, calling for a particular side, or it might even be a tie. Jim
:43:15. > :43:20.and Isabel join me here. Isabel, what do the Remain side have to do?
:43:21. > :43:24.It is safety first for that at the moment. They have drawn level in the
:43:25. > :43:29.polls as far as we know. What they will not want to do is make any
:43:30. > :43:35.major slip-ups. The big pitfall for them tonight is on immigration. That
:43:36. > :43:38.is clearly the weak point for the Remain campaign, the subject they
:43:39. > :43:41.have been desperate to avoid every time they are asked about it. David
:43:42. > :43:45.Cameron tries to move the conversation back onto what he feels
:43:46. > :43:50.is more comfortable ground for him, which is the economy, and that is a
:43:51. > :43:56.topic the audience will care very passionately about. Add his
:43:57. > :44:03.arguments are vulnerable on that, I think. What do you think Leave will
:44:04. > :44:08.have to do tonight to convince some of the people in the audience who
:44:09. > :44:13.maybe have not made up their minds yet? They have to be careful. They
:44:14. > :44:21.have to get the timing right, particularly after the news of Jo
:44:22. > :44:27.Cox. They will have to be careful about the issue of gender,
:44:28. > :44:30.particularly Boris Johnson. Immigration is something that can be
:44:31. > :44:36.talked about and it is something their voters will want to hear a lot
:44:37. > :44:40.more about. Isabel, you said the polls have been tight, that Remain
:44:41. > :44:47.have got back into the game, are people looking at the polls any
:44:48. > :44:50.more? Have a moment of pity for us commentators. Really it is all we
:44:51. > :44:54.have to go on. If you are a politician you are out there every
:44:55. > :44:59.day talking to people. Particularly if you are moving around the country
:45:00. > :45:05.like the different battle buses are. Then you have anecdotal evidence. In
:45:06. > :45:09.the end the polls are all we have by way of science. We know they have
:45:10. > :45:14.been level. We have to take it with a pinch of salt. I don't think
:45:15. > :45:18.anybody sensible is making confident predictions at this point. I have
:45:19. > :45:21.this horrible feeling that whatever happens we are all going to be quite
:45:22. > :45:28.surprised by it, whichever way it goes. Interesting tonight, we have a
:45:29. > :45:34.former Mayor of London and the current one on either side of the
:45:35. > :45:39.debate. This is something we were wondering about. Downing Street was
:45:40. > :45:47.hopeful that Boris Johnson would the on the side of Remain. -- be on the
:45:48. > :45:52.side. They will be making pretty much the opposite argument to each
:45:53. > :45:58.other. The two men, who never went up against each other directly
:45:59. > :46:02.during the electoral campaign, going up against each other for the first
:46:03. > :46:09.time. That'll be interesting. What about Sadiq Khan? He is untested on
:46:10. > :46:13.a platform like this. Leave have worked together on previous
:46:14. > :46:19.television debates. I think they were impressive as a trio. They will
:46:20. > :46:25.know a bit about the dynamic between the three of them. That is
:46:26. > :46:30.important. The chemistry worked well. For Sadiq Khan this is a big
:46:31. > :46:35.moment for them on such an enormous platform. A huge audience. I am sure
:46:36. > :46:39.he will be a solid performer. He is an experienced debater. But I think
:46:40. > :46:44.he is the one who has the less experience of this kind of forum.
:46:45. > :46:51.You are talking about the ITV debate, of course, where Boris
:46:52. > :46:55.Johnson, he was there with the others, it seemed to go well then
:46:56. > :46:59.and that is why they haven't changed the team. Exactly. Both sides in
:47:00. > :47:02.recent days have been debating amongst themselves as to whether
:47:03. > :47:05.they need to change the line-up. I know both sides had an opportunity
:47:06. > :47:09.to change the line-up in the last couple of days. Much thought was
:47:10. > :47:13.going into whether they have the right balance, the right balance of
:47:14. > :47:19.men and women, the right types of voices. Subtle things to take into
:47:20. > :47:24.consideration. Leave clearly decided that these three did well last time.
:47:25. > :47:28.And it is a great vote of confidence in all three of them they are being
:47:29. > :47:31.given the opportunity again. One other thing, I would expect with
:47:32. > :47:38.Davidsson to be very impressive for Remain tonight will stop -- Ruth
:47:39. > :47:45.Davidson. She has a lot of momentum behind her. If I have to say
:47:46. > :47:52.something nice about the Remain side it will be her who is earning the
:47:53. > :47:57.praise. Talking about famous names like Boris Johnson and Sadiq Khan.
:47:58. > :48:02.Ruth Davidson, she is known nationally, but not in the same way
:48:03. > :48:07.as the other characters, could that affect the dynamic? Being a fresh
:48:08. > :48:10.face... She has done a lot for the Conservatives in Scotland. She has
:48:11. > :48:14.managed to relaunch the party and get new voters they couldn't reach
:48:15. > :48:18.before. If there is a chance that works north of the border maybe it
:48:19. > :48:23.could work down here. A lot of people will not know who she is. But
:48:24. > :48:26.they will see a different sort of conservative and somebody a bit
:48:27. > :48:30.different. I don't see why that could not work on the rest of the
:48:31. > :48:36.country. Thank you for joining us. I am now going to take you to two
:48:37. > :48:42.brothers, Fred and Max Thompson. I spoke to them earlier, one is for
:48:43. > :48:45.Remain and the other is for Leave. They have a feud debates over the
:48:46. > :48:53.kitchen table every morning and this is what they have to say. -- few
:48:54. > :48:58.debates. Just put forward Leave vote... I want to leave because I
:48:59. > :49:02.think we can begin much better nation if we take a global view. At
:49:03. > :49:06.the moment we are alienating ourselves and castigating the rest
:49:07. > :49:09.of the world. If we liberate ourselves from this little European
:49:10. > :49:13.narrow mindset we are in at the moment, and if we took a global
:49:14. > :49:18.view, we could be a beacon for people all over the world. Not just
:49:19. > :49:24.in this insular structure. Little European narrow view. Complete
:49:25. > :49:28.rubbish. In a globalised world there would be different challenges. We
:49:29. > :49:33.need to work together with our closest allies. Things like the
:49:34. > :49:37.fight against global terror and environmental issues can only be
:49:38. > :49:42.affected by working together. We are clearly safer. I don't understand
:49:43. > :49:47.the argument to leave, I just don't get it. All of the things you have
:49:48. > :49:51.just pointed towards, Max, all of those things are challenges on a
:49:52. > :49:54.global level not just a European level. This is why we need to look
:49:55. > :50:01.more broadly, not just inside the EU. All of our allies want us to
:50:02. > :50:07.stay. Where are all of these people we are going to trade with? This is
:50:08. > :50:10.fear mongering. We can be a progressive nation, looking far
:50:11. > :50:14.beyond the remit of the EU which is building walls, not just
:50:15. > :50:18.metaphorically, but physically in some places. We need to expand our
:50:19. > :50:24.horizons, trade with China, Australasia, not cast these nations
:50:25. > :50:30.with whom we should be friendly. The whole argument is taking back
:50:31. > :50:35.control, but we would lose control if we left the European Union. If
:50:36. > :50:41.anybody was in any doubt that this would be a passionate night, this is
:50:42. > :50:41.proof that that is exactly what it will be.
:50:42. > :50:52.CHUCKLES Brotherly love. Clive will have much
:50:53. > :50:54.more once the debate is over. Today on the penultimate day of
:50:55. > :51:01.campaigning, as we have been reflecting a lot on, there is more
:51:02. > :51:07.campaigning under way. Let's remind ourselves of what the Prime Minister
:51:08. > :51:11.said around lunchtime today. He came out and made a quite personal,
:51:12. > :51:20.passion and address to journalists, and a personal appeal for the UK to
:51:21. > :51:26.stay within the European Union. -- passionate address.
:51:27. > :51:32.I want to speak very directly to those of my generation and older. I
:51:33. > :51:37.know Europe isn't perfect. Believe me, I understand and I see those
:51:38. > :51:42.frustrations. I feel them myself. That is why we negotiated and
:51:43. > :51:47.enhanced our special status. Out of the euro, keeping our borders, not
:51:48. > :51:53.involved in an ever closer union, we have the best of both worlds. As you
:51:54. > :51:57.take this decision, whether to remain or leaves, do think about the
:51:58. > :52:03.hopes and dreams of your children and grandchildren. They know their
:52:04. > :52:07.chances to work, to travel, to build the sort of open and successful
:52:08. > :52:16.society they want to live in rest on this outcome. And remember, they
:52:17. > :52:22.cannot undo the decision we take. If we vote out that is it. It is
:52:23. > :52:26.irreversible. We will leave Europe for good. And the next generation
:52:27. > :52:32.will have to live with the consequences far longer than the
:52:33. > :52:38.rest of us. For the next two days, up and down the country, in homes,
:52:39. > :52:44.in pubs, in the staff room at work, on the train on the way home, the
:52:45. > :52:52.conversations will continue, in or out. But on Thursday, those
:52:53. > :52:55.conversations. Four. -- those conversations are going to stop. It
:52:56. > :53:01.will be just you in the polling booth, just you making a decision
:53:02. > :53:04.which will affect your future, your children's future, your
:53:05. > :53:08.grandchildren's future. I believe deeply from my years of experience
:53:09. > :53:16.that we will be stronger, we will be safer, we will be better off inside
:53:17. > :53:20.Europe. To put it as clearly as I can, our economic security is
:53:21. > :53:25.paramount. It is stronger if we stay. If we believe we put it at
:53:26. > :53:30.risk. That was David Cameron outside
:53:31. > :53:37.number ten at lunchtime. And that statement came amid another row
:53:38. > :53:42.about immigration. It involved the Prime Minister's former adviser, now
:53:43. > :53:46.Leave campaigner, Steve Hilton. When I spoke to him just a few moments
:53:47. > :53:52.after David Cameron made that address, he dismissed him and said
:53:53. > :53:56.that Remain had lost the argument. What you saw from the Prime Minister
:53:57. > :54:00.is that they have lost the economic argument, they have lost the
:54:01. > :54:05.argument on immigration, and so he has been wheeled out by panicking
:54:06. > :54:09.spin doctors, it seems, to change the subject. There was nothing new
:54:10. > :54:14.in what he said. The argument that we should be a self-governing
:54:15. > :54:17.country, a government that controls the things that matters to people's
:54:18. > :54:21.lives, and that is why we need to leave the EU and that is the
:54:22. > :54:23.argument they are losing and that is what you saw that rather weird
:54:24. > :54:33.statement from the Prime Minister just now. -- why you saw. Was he
:54:34. > :54:37.wheeled out as a response to what you have been talking about? Your
:54:38. > :54:44.contention that he was told four years ago, that the target he put on
:54:45. > :54:47.immigration simply isn't achievable? I think that's right. It goes to the
:54:48. > :54:52.heart of the argument in the referendum campaign. We were told by
:54:53. > :54:57.government officials that if we remain in the EU it would be
:54:58. > :55:05.impossible to reach the target it promised to deliver to the British
:55:06. > :55:08.people. If we don't leave the EU you will never have a situation where
:55:09. > :55:12.the British government actually controls things like immigration and
:55:13. > :55:16.other economic issues like rules about employment and how we help
:55:17. > :55:21.businesses. All of those things end up being a horse trading negotiation
:55:22. > :55:27.with 27 other countries. That means the government of the day cannot
:55:28. > :55:33.deliver its promises. Is the vote on Thursday, above and beyond anything
:55:34. > :55:41.else, is it about migration as you see it? Really, if we are being
:55:42. > :55:46.honest with ourselves as a nation, is this what it is about? It is
:55:47. > :55:50.about who governs Britain, it is about who is in control of the
:55:51. > :55:54.things we need to do to create jobs and boost living standards, and
:55:55. > :55:58.build a better life for the people of this country. Who is in charge of
:55:59. > :56:10.this stuff? Is it the government people elect in this country, or is
:56:11. > :56:14.it a group of unelected... -- or is it a group of unelected bureaucrats.
:56:15. > :56:17.We can get some closing thoughts from our chief political
:56:18. > :56:21.correspondent who will be watching the debate like the rest of us
:56:22. > :56:24.tonight. We have herpes comments from Jean-Claude Juncker
:56:25. > :56:32.-- we have heard these comments from Jean-Claude Juncker.
:56:33. > :56:36.He said it would be a retreat into isolation. It is interesting the
:56:37. > :56:41.role European figures have played in this referendum, not a big one.
:56:42. > :56:46.Partly because Remain have told them to stay clear because they don't
:56:47. > :56:49.think they can persuade a sceptical UK electorate, people like Angela
:56:50. > :56:56.Merkel, have played no role in this at all. His comments contrast with
:56:57. > :57:01.what Donald Tusk has said. He is the ee president. He talked about how
:57:02. > :57:06.the EU would have to take a long hard look at itself. -- the EU
:57:07. > :57:10.president. And that you could ignore the statement of negativity coming
:57:11. > :57:14.from Britain and elsewhere in the European Union. He very much feels
:57:15. > :57:17.that there is a need for reform whatever the result of this
:57:18. > :57:21.referendum. Very few interventions from the big figures across Europe,
:57:22. > :57:28.yes. Let's close this hour by thinking
:57:29. > :57:34.about what each side feels it needs to accomplish tonight. 6000 people
:57:35. > :57:38.inside. People watching at home. Interesting that David Cameron has
:57:39. > :57:42.given an interview to the Financial Times saying that he believes it is
:57:43. > :57:47.very close. What will they be trying to achieve?
:57:48. > :57:51.From there on polling, from going around the country, they both
:57:52. > :57:55.believe this is close. With millions of people watching, with 6000 people
:57:56. > :57:59.in there asking questions, it is a big moment and a big chance for both
:58:00. > :58:03.sides to make an impact and persuade people. Those who are undecided.
:58:04. > :58:08.Those were not determined to go one way or another. They have to make
:58:09. > :58:12.their argument. Definitely a big moment for the people on the stage,
:58:13. > :58:16.people like Boris Johnson who have been thrust towards the front of the
:58:17. > :58:23.campaign, he will be talking again and again about taking control.
:58:24. > :58:26.Labour figures on the Remain side, including the leader of the Scottish
:58:27. > :58:32.Conservatives, they are concerned about the Labour vote, trying to get
:58:33. > :58:35.the vote out for Remain. And the audience, we have seen in much
:58:36. > :58:39.smaller debates the effect they can have when they raise issues like the
:58:40. > :58:44.economy, like immigration, their questions can be just as pertinent,
:58:45. > :58:48.just as important, to the way this debate goes. And there is another
:58:49. > :58:50.panel of people reacting to what they have heard. People who are not
:58:51. > :58:56.politicians. People outside business. They will give their say.
:58:57. > :59:00.There is a broad spectrum of people you will hear from. Voters,
:59:01. > :59:05.politicians, and business people, too.
:59:06. > :59:11.Thanks very much. We will let you escape and watch the debate as we
:59:12. > :59:18.all indeed will now. A build-up to a very big debate. This is the last
:59:19. > :59:21.key moment, of this election this referendum campaign, days and days
:59:22. > :59:29.in the planning inside the arena here behind me in Wembley. And now
:59:30. > :59:34.finally the stage is set. We saw the two camps arrive in the last couple
:59:35. > :59:39.of hours. The battle buses arrived and the key speakers here tonight
:59:40. > :59:46.arrived. There were a future years and clapped as both sides emerged
:59:47. > :59:55.from their battle buses. -- a few cheers and some clapping. Boris
:59:56. > :59:57.Johnson and his successor, Siddique Khan, on opposing sides. -- Sadiq
:59:58. > :00:00.Khan.