0:00:00 > 0:00:01Now on BBC News, it's a special televised edition of the BBC's
0:00:01 > 0:00:06Brexitcast podcast.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09Here is Chris Mason and friends.
0:00:09 > 0:00:15The question is, does this shirt work on TV?Has that shirt ever seen
0:00:15 > 0:00:24an iron?It said it was non iron on the back.Normally we record the
0:00:24 > 0:00:30Brexitcast pod cast...We call that a shirt for radio.Normally we sit
0:00:30 > 0:00:34in a cupboard recording the little pod cast, Brexitcast.I have brought
0:00:34 > 0:00:41Kate!You did, you did. This is a twist on the usual pod cast,
0:00:41 > 0:00:46normally into your ears only and instead, welcome and thanks for
0:00:46 > 0:00:52watching on the BBC News channel to a special Brexitcast with an invited
0:00:52 > 0:01:02audience.Brexitcast from BBC 5 Live and BBC News.Brexit means Brexit.
0:01:02 > 0:01:06Breaking up is hard. The people voted and they have to get on with
0:01:06 > 0:01:11it.I think Brexit is going to be a wonderful thing.I have to say this
0:01:11 > 0:01:19is a tough negotiating process which a -- I can only describe as adults
0:01:19 > 0:01:25breakfast.Brexit means Brexit, but what does Brexit mean?-- as a dog's
0:01:25 > 0:01:29breakfast.Oh, what did you think of the jingle?It is magnificent,
0:01:29 > 0:01:35darling. LAUGHTER I didn't edit it.What do
0:01:35 > 0:01:41you think of the Brexitcast jingle? Yeah, a good summary of where we are
0:01:41 > 0:01:49so far? And who said Brexit is a dog's breakfast? Was it Yanis
0:01:49 > 0:01:54Varoufakis?That was a niche question, wasn't it?Lets focus on
0:01:54 > 0:02:01the big picture, where are we on the seemingly never-ending Brexit
0:02:01 > 0:02:06process?It is the Christmas party at Downing Street, and for
0:02:06 > 0:02:09journalist and officials this evening, and their Christmas party
0:02:09 > 0:02:14because, after all the NXT of the last few months, after the
0:02:14 > 0:02:18frustrations, their difficulties, all of the wrangles at a cost for
0:02:18 > 0:02:23Theresa May, last week at the end of the week she got her piece of paper,
0:02:23 > 0:02:27she was able to come home and say yes, phase one is over. Now, does
0:02:27 > 0:02:31that solve the contradictions we have discussed on the programme?
0:02:31 > 0:02:35Does it mean the problems have gone away? Does it mean anything other
0:02:35 > 0:02:39than for Number Ten thank goodness they got to this stage? Not really.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43That in and of itself given the divisions in the Tory party, the
0:02:43 > 0:02:47divisions in the types of approach between the UK and EU that is an
0:02:47 > 0:02:51achievement for a Prime Minister who lost her majority down the back of a
0:02:51 > 0:02:56sofa not long ago.And she has been applauded.Yeah.And I have to say
0:02:56 > 0:03:01that in the EU there is a real sight of relief, actually, and it is not
0:03:01 > 0:03:06that it is one of those occasions where it is an EU Summit E is a
0:03:06 > 0:03:10waltz out the door and they ally, did you see what... -- and she walks
0:03:10 > 0:03:14out the door and they are like, did you see what she did... I will do
0:03:14 > 0:03:18that many times over the next few months. They didn't do it this time.
0:03:18 > 0:03:29They were like, oh my god, you know, they took about someone who has a
0:03:29 > 0:03:33couple of cahoonas and they think she has found a way out of a tough
0:03:33 > 0:03:38situation. They were so taken aback by the DUP phone call she received
0:03:38 > 0:03:42while in Brussels just a few days before and the people in the room
0:03:42 > 0:03:47describe it in such awestruck tones, like "We saw her as if her
0:03:47 > 0:03:50government was going to crumble around her" you know, they were
0:03:50 > 0:03:55taken by that. The fact sheet could turn that around by, let's face it,
0:03:55 > 0:03:58we will hear about Ireland later, Keating became down the road, but
0:03:58 > 0:04:05the fact that we have got past phase one -- Keating became down the road.
0:04:05 > 0:04:12The fact we have a real sight of relief -- kicking the can down the
0:04:12 > 0:04:17road. You know, I was still calling people yesterday on a Sunday and I
0:04:17 > 0:04:22am amazed they take my calls on Sunday. I was marching in the
0:04:22 > 0:04:29countryside on the phone talking about, I was saying "Attitude
0:04:29 > 0:04:34towards the UK, negative" no, are sort of feeling buoyed by what
0:04:34 > 0:04:39happened.Interesting in the press conference last week on Friday when
0:04:39 > 0:04:45Jean-Claude Juncker came out with Tusk to deliver the news to say
0:04:45 > 0:04:49sufficient progress has been made and he was falling over himself to
0:04:49 > 0:04:55be nice.Yeah. She was tough, smart, polite negotiator, you know.It is
0:04:55 > 0:05:01awful, isn't it? Who in the audience has got a cahoonas impression for
0:05:01 > 0:05:06later?Dangerous territory.Someone might come up to kiss you because
0:05:06 > 0:05:09that would be a good impression, wouldn't it?Or maybe he will hug
0:05:09 > 0:05:17you for ages and not let go.It was interesting. Politically for her, I
0:05:17 > 0:05:22think, last week the Monday to Friday to Monday to Friday made me
0:05:22 > 0:05:26think that actually this process is just going to be like this and it is
0:05:26 > 0:05:30something ministers have been saying for ages, it is just going to be
0:05:30 > 0:05:34like this, it will be really hard and we are going to go from the top
0:05:34 > 0:05:38of the Himalayas down to 20,000 Leagues under the Sea and then I
0:05:38 > 0:05:40began...
0:05:44 > 0:05:51Is the Imperial?Am not sure. I think for that process, it is going
0:05:51 > 0:05:57to be like that.Also, in this feeling that we are progressing,
0:05:57 > 0:06:01definitely you feel. We are going back to the same rhetoric from right
0:06:01 > 0:06:05at the beginning which is Brussels saying we need to hear from the UK
0:06:05 > 0:06:09what they want, which is what we heard at the beginning of phase one.
0:06:09 > 0:06:15We are back again there now. The mood is different, positive, can do
0:06:15 > 0:06:20and yet they are saying we want a deal with you guys but you have to
0:06:20 > 0:06:25come back to us with a clear idea of what you want. They are focused on
0:06:25 > 0:06:28today and tomorrow without believing they are going to get the answer.
0:06:28 > 0:06:36And you know how I celebrate? It doesn't involve the pub. I got stuck
0:06:36 > 0:06:41in a lift with 18 other journalists stop it only for a couple of minutes
0:06:41 > 0:06:48but it felt like a couple of hours. Is that fake news?No, it is real.
0:06:48 > 0:06:54What was the conversation?It was, how long are we going to be in here?
0:06:54 > 0:07:00Were you waiting for key moments or was it afterwards?What happens is
0:07:00 > 0:07:04that there are bits of the building that was on the down, we went to the
0:07:04 > 0:07:08ground floor which was locked down. I tried to lighten the mood by
0:07:08 > 0:07:12asking everyone what Donald Tusk's favourite Christmas movie was. It
0:07:12 > 0:07:18didn't really work.Remind me not to invite you to play in New Year's Eve
0:07:18 > 0:07:23party.What is your favourite Christmas film then?I don't know.I
0:07:23 > 0:07:28like the holiday. Can we have a brief confectionery moment are
0:07:28 > 0:07:35looking at the table in front of us? It has been known to have a little
0:07:35 > 0:07:39cake or sweet, but we have a selection here.These look like they
0:07:39 > 0:07:43have been bought from the supermarket down the road.
0:07:43 > 0:07:50Presumably we will hand these around.Air. Let's hand these out.
0:07:50 > 0:08:10-- air. -- yeah.Look at this! Amazing.While you settle down...
0:08:10 > 0:08:18Thank you William. Cheers.Other biscuit brands are available.While
0:08:18 > 0:08:22we are digesting our biscuits, we have our first Christmas treat for
0:08:22 > 0:08:26you all. As you know I have a deep and special relationship with
0:08:26 > 0:08:37Michelle Barnier.Do you have it with him or act him? -- at.He
0:08:37 > 0:08:47probably avoids all corridors.No, as you will see my colleagues have
0:08:47 > 0:08:51made a better video.
0:08:51 > 0:08:51-- bantz.
0:09:23 > 0:09:31Very good.By the time we get to March 2019 he is going to be running
0:09:31 > 0:09:39away from new.The other day when we arrived, I was the first person and
0:09:39 > 0:09:45he shook my hand because I think he was relieved... That it was you?
0:09:45 > 0:09:50Know, the whole historical process was reaching a milestone. --
0:09:50 > 0:09:53INAUDIBLE.
0:09:53 > 0:09:53-- no.
0:09:56 > 0:10:02I saw the pictures of that meeting. He was running away.He shakes your
0:10:02 > 0:10:08hand and you shake his hand and he carries on, speeding up, speeding
0:10:08 > 0:10:16up. IM teasing.He has much longer legs of.This is emblematic of the
0:10:16 > 0:10:21Brexit process. You can see the same scene and interpret it in two
0:10:21 > 0:10:29different ways.If you are listening to us live or as a pod cast
0:10:29 > 0:10:38conventionally, you can see Adam's Brexit video on the BBC News Channel
0:10:38 > 0:10:42and the website. Now, shall we get into our questions from the floor
0:10:42 > 0:10:48from our fantastic assembly of Brexitcaster to have come a long.
0:10:48 > 0:10:52Thank you for doing that. Let's see if we can get the microphone to
0:10:52 > 0:11:00Sally. Fire away.Thanks having asked. On Thursday 's question time
0:11:00 > 0:11:04Professor Robert Winston said there was a minor chance Brexit wouldn't
0:11:04 > 0:11:08happen without considering the likelihood of it, how would or could
0:11:08 > 0:11:14this practically happen? Will not happen?That sounds like a question
0:11:14 > 0:11:19for an editor.As he said, I think it is very unlikely, don't forget
0:11:19 > 0:11:25both of the parties voted for Article 50 and the process to make
0:11:25 > 0:11:31it happen. I suppose you can see a situation, if there was a sudden and
0:11:31 > 0:11:35very clear reversal of public opinion, which might be the type of
0:11:35 > 0:11:38thing which would come about is something serious happened to the
0:11:38 > 0:11:44economy or some bust up in the talks or all is kind of things that we
0:11:44 > 0:11:47cannot imagine, but you would see some scenario that would really have
0:11:47 > 0:11:52to change public opinion and only in that case would you see any other
0:11:52 > 0:11:55politicians in either the Labour Party or the Tory party feel that it
0:11:55 > 0:12:00was the thing to say hold on, let's have another think about this. So I
0:12:00 > 0:12:05think it is very unlikely but politics has been so volatile in the
0:12:05 > 0:12:09last couple of years, it is not impossible to imagine that is
0:12:09 > 0:12:13something we haven't anticipated yet happens, then you could find a
0:12:13 > 0:12:17political way to stop it because I think not only is the Article 50
0:12:17 > 0:12:22process unclear as to whether or not it is reloadable mother has been a
0:12:22 > 0:12:32lot of chatter. -- revoke. But from a political point of view, if many,
0:12:32 > 0:12:39lots of the mainstream vibe was that we don't want this any more, they
0:12:39 > 0:12:45would find a way to stop it. The EU wouldn't make us do it.Absolutely,
0:12:45 > 0:12:50from the UK perspective, the EU Referendum was not legally binding.
0:12:50 > 0:12:55It happened and it has come political reality but it is not
0:12:55 > 0:13:00legally binding. Article 50 is legally binding, we have started the
0:13:00 > 0:13:04formal process and after two years, unless there is a unanimous vote, be
0:13:04 > 0:13:09it the UK plus the member states and the European Parliament could vote
0:13:09 > 0:13:13to extend the negotiating period but otherwise in March 2019 the UK
0:13:13 > 0:13:22leads. Up until that point, the UK can change its mind. After that
0:13:22 > 0:13:26point, when there is talk about you can vote in the 2020 election on the
0:13:26 > 0:13:32Brexit deal, we are out. Britain can vote and decide what it likes but
0:13:32 > 0:13:36actually we have left the European Union at that stage and we would
0:13:36 > 0:13:40have to apply to come back in. If we are talking in theory or practice
0:13:40 > 0:13:46all likelihood, were there to be this huge event that everybody,
0:13:46 > 0:13:51including the EU, there is a feeling that in the UK there is a conspiracy
0:13:51 > 0:13:55to keep us in the. Whoever you talk to on the European political field
0:13:55 > 0:14:01would love the UK to stay. Believes the UK is leaving. Say there was
0:14:01 > 0:14:07this amazing reversal, under what circumstances would we come back?
0:14:07 > 0:14:13Actually, again when you talk to the commission they say we can change
0:14:13 > 0:14:17our mind while in the Article 50 process but by launching it we have
0:14:17 > 0:14:21lost everything that we have gained, if you like. That means the rebate,
0:14:21 > 0:14:25not signing up to the euro and all of that. That would be really
0:14:25 > 0:14:30intriguing from an academic point of use.It would have to be so big, if
0:14:30 > 0:14:34you think it was the biggest democratic event, the biggest
0:14:34 > 0:14:39exercise of peoples will and vote for a long time, so politicians
0:14:39 > 0:14:43would have to be really, really sure that they had a chunky majority of
0:14:43 > 0:14:50the public on side if they were to stop that.A quick question to use.
0:14:50 > 0:14:55-- to use. What I and conscious of, is while we are in West and stuck on
0:14:55 > 0:15:01a huge amount of the brain space of Westminster is taken up by Brexit. I
0:15:01 > 0:15:06wonder, went as Brexit sit on the conversations of the European Union
0:15:06 > 0:15:10when there are so much else that they need to talk about? Wee
0:15:10 > 0:15:14Karabakh Brexit, how Marx is Brexit the dominating conversation in
0:15:14 > 0:15:22Brussels?This will make us feel bad.I think it dominates more time
0:15:22 > 0:15:30than they would like to admit. OK? Jean-Claude Juncker at a fume and is
0:15:30 > 0:15:39a -goer said, no one I would do my imitation. -- Jean-Claude Juncker.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43He said from now on we will dedicate 50 minutes per day to Brexit and no
0:15:43 > 0:15:55more.It was a week? No 15 minutes. No, 15 minutes per week.This is not
0:15:55 > 0:16:02the case. It is just not the case. The UK is a very big member state
0:16:02 > 0:16:07and we are leaving and that has implications for the whole of the
0:16:07 > 0:16:11rest of the EU. Early in 2017 there was this feeling of, this is awful,
0:16:11 > 0:16:22we are going to dust ourselves down and be stronger forward. We are
0:16:22 > 0:16:26going to be more unified than ever, we are not. Those cracks will show
0:16:26 > 0:16:30in phase two because they are not unified about the kind of deal that
0:16:30 > 0:16:35they want to have all prepared to give with the United Kingdom. How
0:16:35 > 0:16:39many rules are they prepared to bend? When it comes out of it I
0:16:39 > 0:16:44think it will be fascinating for all of us because the EU is good at
0:16:44 > 0:16:52saying this is it. As I say, it is ish. A lot of people will be seeing
0:16:52 > 0:16:55a lot of ishes and those will disturb this unified front that they
0:16:55 > 0:17:03have managed to maintain until now because they wanted the money. That
0:17:03 > 0:17:11is what the UK wants, right?You haven't even written anything down
0:17:11 > 0:17:17for this.In all of this, saying that Brexit is a big deal they have
0:17:17 > 0:17:21other big issues, the future of the European Union and what will happen
0:17:21 > 0:17:26to Angela Merkel because Germany is so key. I think these are really,
0:17:26 > 0:17:32sort of, big issues for them and plus what is really interesting to
0:17:32 > 0:17:36me is that all the new alliances that are forming inside the EU. We
0:17:36 > 0:17:41have gone, who are our traditional allies? Ireland, Denmark, Sweden,
0:17:41 > 0:17:46the Baltic states copy who are they now making friends with? The
0:17:46 > 0:17:50assumption that is that we go and Germany and become stronger and I
0:17:50 > 0:17:54think a lot of these eurosceptic countries are banding together.You
0:17:54 > 0:18:01mention Germany, you mentioned -- where is Nina? You worked in think
0:18:01 > 0:18:07tanks, where are you now? Obviously you are an observer at the moment.
0:18:07 > 0:18:13When you look at the European press and media and Germany in particular.
0:18:13 > 0:18:22I am German, yeah.How does it go down in Germany?Think that the
0:18:22 > 0:18:25public is not actually that interested in it. They thought it
0:18:25 > 0:18:31was a disastrous thing, but for those who are interested, the German
0:18:31 > 0:18:37interpretation of the EU is, here are the laws, you tell us which ones
0:18:37 > 0:18:41you want and then we will decide what model you get. The entire
0:18:41 > 0:18:45process of anything getting here to face on being completed from the
0:18:45 > 0:18:49German perspective, they were bemused by it. It is like, why isn't
0:18:49 > 0:18:54Theresa May honest with her public? This is what they signed up to. I
0:18:54 > 0:19:00think they were slightly bemused about it, but where it is quite
0:19:00 > 0:19:03feisty is in some of the comment pieces. I think there was one
0:19:03 > 0:19:12recently where a very famous German comment author wrote that this is
0:19:12 > 0:19:21the stupidest decision since the euro made its voice.In the most
0:19:21 > 0:19:26widely read newspaper it said by by Whitey.
0:19:26 > 0:19:26-- Blighty.
0:19:29 > 0:19:34I think the Germans are rather bemused. They find it quite cute,
0:19:34 > 0:19:39the Royal family and so on. But they think they have this weird culture
0:19:39 > 0:19:43of exceptionalism which on one hand they like the Brits but on the other
0:19:43 > 0:19:50hand, they don't.I wonder if it is things like when they hear about how
0:19:50 > 0:19:56many sugars does David Davis have. Somebody told me it was five, but
0:19:56 > 0:20:03then another said it was seven.Time for an experiment.We are going to
0:20:03 > 0:20:12do a taste test.In goes another one the. -- number one. This is
0:20:12 > 0:20:20Brexitcast live, a slightly unconventional approach.While you
0:20:20 > 0:20:25are doing this, we will listen to something because this week Michel
0:20:25 > 0:20:31Barnier's team punish De Marchi published a dossier of those who
0:20:31 > 0:20:36were worried that citizens or write. If you are staying in the UK after
0:20:36 > 0:20:40Brexit, they did a list of questions that. He will take it in a minute.
0:20:40 > 0:20:53Have a listen to this. Go onto a drink it now! Down the hatch.Don't!
0:20:53 > 0:20:59Quite horrible. It doesn't all dissolve. There is still stuff in
0:20:59 > 0:21:05the bottom still.I expect something to happen to that search, like in
0:21:05 > 0:21:10the Hulk.
0:21:10 > 0:21:17When Chris Mason has seven sugars, he turns into Chris Mason. Nice?
0:21:17 > 0:21:24Disgusting.Nice to drink the fuel of the Brexit negotiator.It might
0:21:24 > 0:21:27all be tied in with something else because before he became a
0:21:27 > 0:21:33politician, David Davies worked for Tate and Lyle, guaranteeing his own
0:21:33 > 0:21:38pension.You know what I love about five or seven sugar is, there is a
0:21:38 > 0:21:45phrase introduced into parlance when it comes to EU documents, they call
0:21:45 > 0:21:52them Davies proof or not Davies proof, meaning agreeing to
0:21:52 > 0:21:56conditions on a divorce deal and then coming to a BBC Sunday
0:21:56 > 0:22:03programme and saying, actually, it is not legally binding, which, at
0:22:03 > 0:22:07that time, as the audience is watching, there is quite a big
0:22:07 > 0:22:11audience watching over there as well who are jumping up and down and
0:22:11 > 0:22:15going...Do they watch it, do they pay attention to what is happening
0:22:15 > 0:22:23here?You ask, do they care about Brexit? Yes, they do. We go for the
0:22:23 > 0:22:27secret squirrel chats and everything and we said, so how do you feel
0:22:27 > 0:22:33about, and they are just apoplectic sometimes, really, that colour
0:22:33 > 0:22:37purple, and they say, do you think we don't read the Sunday Times, the
0:22:37 > 0:22:41Financial Times?Someone told me outright one of the reasons that
0:22:41 > 0:22:45there was not sufficient progress in phase one at the October summit was
0:22:45 > 0:22:51Boris Johnson's article in the paper.Oh, definitely. That
0:22:51 > 0:22:55absolutely put fear into the hearts of people who were trying to make
0:22:55 > 0:22:59the process work. Suddenly one of the most famous people in UK
0:22:59 > 0:23:03politics, the chief cheerleader for the Brexit campaign, putting his own
0:23:03 > 0:23:06personal manifesto for what the world should look like after Brexit
0:23:06 > 0:23:13into a newspaper because he was cross and it made people panic about
0:23:13 > 0:23:16whether the government was united or not.Shall we go to another
0:23:16 > 0:23:23question?Where is Madeleine? Rather than your question, I heard a rumour
0:23:23 > 0:23:29you try to get a passport from another country.No.Not yet.
0:23:29 > 0:23:36Depending on the answer.No one is allowed to boo.Sorry, I was
0:23:36 > 0:23:43misinformed.My husband is Irish. We have two kids and we always thought
0:23:43 > 0:23:48we would get them Irish passports. We are now seriously considering
0:23:48 > 0:23:51putting in the application. We haven't quite bought a house in
0:23:51 > 0:23:57Dublin. We are getting there.Why are you thinking of doing that?We
0:23:57 > 0:24:01see ourselves as European and then as European and the idea of leaving
0:24:01 > 0:24:05the EU and feeling out of Europe is incomprehensible and we don't want
0:24:05 > 0:24:10to live in a little immigrant. We want to live in the EU.You are
0:24:10 > 0:24:17sitting next to someone who might be bristling, Darren Grimes.I see
0:24:17 > 0:24:21myself as European. What I don't see myself as being part of this
0:24:21 > 0:24:26European superstate. The United Kingdom, global Britain, Boris
0:24:26 > 0:24:30Johnson's treaters in the Telegraph is the sort of vision I think the UK
0:24:30 > 0:24:37should be going for. It is hard not to stress how important the Brexit
0:24:37 > 0:24:42war Cabinet meeting was today and it will change for generations the
0:24:42 > 0:24:46history, the track of this country and what it goes down and I think I
0:24:46 > 0:24:50should be a part in which we have an independent trade policy and get out
0:24:50 > 0:24:54into the world because that is where the growth is.Madeleine is not
0:24:54 > 0:25:00bristling.I am bristling inside. My husband told me not to be too vocal.
0:25:00 > 0:25:11Oh, come on!It is Tony Connelly from RT, come on up.Looks like a
0:25:11 > 0:25:15chat show now. APPLAUSE. .
0:25:17 > 0:25:25Welcome, Tony.What is it called? Never mind, we're not paying you.
0:25:25 > 0:25:30Brexitcast Live, didn't we tell you? I won't plug my Brexit and Ireland.
0:25:30 > 0:25:37Did you carry in a box of chocolates?No, there are enough
0:25:37 > 0:25:44calories on the table as it is.You are of course the Europe editor for
0:25:44 > 0:25:51RTE, the Irish public broadcaster, and you are quite a necessary part
0:25:51 > 0:25:56of the process a couple of weeks ago.Yes. I am happy to talk about
0:25:56 > 0:26:01it. The day that Theresa May came to Brussels for lunch with Jean-Claude
0:26:01 > 0:26:06Juncker it had been around for days of fraught negotiations between the
0:26:06 > 0:26:10British, Irish and EU officials about the deal on the Irish border.
0:26:10 > 0:26:18The Irish government was downbeat on Monday morning. Mid-morning I was
0:26:18 > 0:26:24able to get sight of part of the deal, part of the text on Ireland,
0:26:24 > 0:26:30and I got a second source to confirm the text. I put out two tweets, RTE
0:26:30 > 0:26:34ran the story, the first tweet said there would be no regulatory
0:26:34 > 0:26:41divergences according to a draft seen by RT News, followed up four
0:26:41 > 0:26:44minutes later saying no regulatory divergences be changed to continued
0:26:44 > 0:26:50regular tree-lined. These are quite wonky phrase as I understand. --
0:26:50 > 0:26:55regular alliance. My understanding is the DUP saw that story coming
0:26:55 > 0:26:59from me, assumed I had been briefed by the Irish government, that it was
0:26:59 > 0:27:04claiming victory in the process, and I think at that point a certain
0:27:04 > 0:27:11discontent in the DUP had built up and exploded. And that seems to have
0:27:11 > 0:27:17brought the whole text crashing down. At that moment, to put it
0:27:17 > 0:27:22politely, all heck broke loose.And then MEPs came on the record saying
0:27:22 > 0:27:28the same thing. They said on tape the UK government has conceded. For
0:27:28 > 0:27:32the DUP it was piling on the pain that you have brought on social
0:27:32 > 0:27:39media. The idea that the northern Irish would stay in the customs
0:27:39 > 0:27:42union and single market was floated in a task force working paper in
0:27:42 > 0:27:49early November. It brought a harsh response from the government to say
0:27:49 > 0:27:52there is no way the UK government could countenance something that
0:27:52 > 0:27:55would put Northern Ireland on a different footing from the rest of
0:27:55 > 0:27:58the UK so when I heard that something along those lines was in
0:27:58 > 0:28:02the text and the person I spoke to say this is stunning, this is
0:28:02 > 0:28:07astonishing they have agreed to this, that was why we felt that this
0:28:07 > 0:28:12appeared to be a concession by the British government. Of course in the
0:28:12 > 0:28:15zero-sum atmosphere of northern Irish politics, to the DUP it was
0:28:15 > 0:28:20too far and they were not having it. And through the course of the week
0:28:20 > 0:28:24Theresa May knew that she would not get that through the DUP. And also
0:28:24 > 0:28:27she could not get it through the Brexit parts of the party. That is
0:28:27 > 0:28:31really what it was proxy for. The issue of Ireland and the border is
0:28:31 > 0:28:37vital and important. It is also in the context of the Westminster end
0:28:37 > 0:28:41of things and how Theresa May copes with the strands of her party. It
0:28:41 > 0:28:45became a proxy for the whole row which is basically, as the War
0:28:45 > 0:28:49Cabinet would have been discussing today, how closely should we stick
0:28:49 > 0:28:54to the EU rules and regulations after we leave. In the Cabinet and
0:28:54 > 0:29:00the Tory party there are two very different views. The buzzword is
0:29:00 > 0:29:07diverted OK. The hot debate of 2018 will be over divergences. Once we
0:29:07 > 0:29:13are out, if everyone agrees we are out, as we discussed, should we
0:29:13 > 0:29:18mirror the EU, because that is what businesses want, they want minimal
0:29:18 > 0:29:24disruption, or should we go off, be completely free to do our own thing
0:29:24 > 0:29:30and only agree with the EU rules when it suits us.Listeners to 5
0:29:30 > 0:29:39Live will notice we have diverged from drive, moving to Brexitcast.
0:29:39 > 0:29:44And a nerdy question in your direction, Tony, how freaked out is
0:29:44 > 0:29:47island by Brexit and the potential ramifications for Ireland if it
0:29:47 > 0:29:54doesn't turn out as Dublin might want?And is it all souls?No.
0:29:54 > 0:30:00Freaked out, yeah, on a scale of freaked outness, we are out on top,
0:30:00 > 0:30:05it is the Good Friday agreement, the peace process, the inflated economy
0:30:05 > 0:30:11between Ireland and the UK, vast volumes of food, a high Brexit will
0:30:11 > 0:30:16hurt Ireland badly. It will also affect the border, which is now back
0:30:16 > 0:30:21in Irish politics, which is a real tragedy, because it was gone from
0:30:21 > 0:30:25Irish politics for 20 years since the Good Friday agreement, so it is
0:30:25 > 0:30:31a huge worry.Now, Matt, you work in Number Ten, you are from Northern
0:30:31 > 0:30:35Ireland, and you were on with Brexitcast a couple of weeks ago
0:30:35 > 0:30:38talking about this, so have the government been surprised, were they
0:30:38 > 0:30:42too late, or was it always a problem that was bubbling away in the
0:30:42 > 0:30:46basement and they thought they could come to it later on?It is true to
0:30:46 > 0:30:52say before the referendum in 2016 and then for the first six to ten
0:30:52 > 0:30:57months post- referendum period the Irish issues, the entire Ireland, as
0:30:57 > 0:31:00Tony talked about, Northern Ireland specifically and the issues
0:31:00 > 0:31:04affecting the whole Ireland, they were not front and centre of the
0:31:04 > 0:31:07debate, and the Downing Street agenda is often driven by what is at
0:31:07 > 0:31:11the top of the news agenda. It wasn't that people did not take it
0:31:11 > 0:31:15seriously. But the Irish government made a decision, as Tony knows, to
0:31:15 > 0:31:19drive it front to the news agenda to get people's attention.And we
0:31:19 > 0:31:27picked up talking to members of the Irish government, but also some
0:31:27 > 0:31:32elements, people who come to visit from Northern Ireland, the feeling
0:31:32 > 0:31:35that Downing Street didn't understand, they felt this is not
0:31:35 > 0:31:39just an economic issue, but also political and very much a social
0:31:39 > 0:31:43issue. The fact that talk of the border disappeared and now it is
0:31:43 > 0:31:46front and centre. And real concern about that and real worry that it
0:31:46 > 0:31:52wasn't being taken on board. And I think the rest of the EU was
0:31:52 > 0:31:56tempted, even though they said from the beginning this has to be one of
0:31:56 > 0:31:59the main divorce issues, it was always around, I think they were
0:31:59 > 0:32:03willing to let it slide a little bit interface to as the UK government
0:32:03 > 0:32:09wanted. The Irish government made sure that didn't happen -- into
0:32:09 > 0:32:16phase two. Ireland has been given, and I know Ireland doesn't like it
0:32:16 > 0:32:21said that it has veto, but it does have a veto.It is an implied veto.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25If it is good enough for Dublin, it is good enough for the rest of the
0:32:25 > 0:32:30EU when it comes...We are running out of time. I was teasing you with
0:32:30 > 0:32:35a Jeremy Vine special. We have Jeremy Vine reading out some of the
0:32:35 > 0:32:38questions in the European Commission Q&A at our citizens' rights which
0:32:38 > 0:32:45sounds like a problem page in a magazine. Have a listen to this.I
0:32:45 > 0:32:51am a Korean spouse, and came to the UK four years ago to live with my EU
0:32:51 > 0:32:56husband, but the marriage hit a rough patch recently. I want to file
0:32:56 > 0:33:01for divorce, but I am afraid what it will mean for my right of residence
0:33:01 > 0:33:08post-Brexit. I live and work in the UK with my partner. We plan to have
0:33:08 > 0:33:12a baby soon. Should we accelerate our plans and have the baby before
0:33:12 > 0:33:19Brexit? I live and work in the UK. I am single. Hopefully one day I will
0:33:19 > 0:33:26marry. Realistically, it will be after Brexit. Will my future spouse
0:33:26 > 0:33:37be able to join in the UK and what if we have a baby?Yes, the Q&A for
0:33:37 > 0:33:40people worried about their rights after Brexit. It was deep.Very
0:33:40 > 0:33:46deep.It affects lots of relationships now in the UK, like,
0:33:46 > 0:33:52how did you vote, it is a date in question.Absolutely, and it is
0:33:52 > 0:33:58happening, and in that sense a lot of the post- referendum conversation
0:33:58 > 0:34:02is playing out in ugly ways, with the debate last week when the
0:34:02 > 0:34:06government was defeated on one of the members in the Brexit Withdrawal
0:34:06 > 0:34:10Bill going through, yet another long and complicated process happening in
0:34:10 > 0:34:13parliament rather than the complicated process happening in
0:34:13 > 0:34:18negotiating rooms of Brussels. Whenever things low art over Brexit
0:34:18 > 0:34:24in parliament, it gets pretty nasty -- blowup over Brexit in parliament,
0:34:24 > 0:34:30it gets pretty nasty.I reckon a little experiment among the audience
0:34:30 > 0:34:34with a show of hands, picking up on the theme of the extent to which
0:34:34 > 0:34:37Brexit is a dominating conversation, I wonder how often when you are
0:34:37 > 0:34:40having an ordinary conversation, as opposed to nerdy conversation, that
0:34:40 > 0:34:47the issue of Brexit comes up and there is a row among friends or
0:34:47 > 0:34:50family or whatever. Port of your hand if it is still happening. Is it
0:34:50 > 0:34:55still happening? -- put up your hand if it is still happening. By the
0:34:55 > 0:35:00way, a quick cup of tea update, it gets no better.Does it get more
0:35:00 > 0:35:05sugary?We are very impressed you haven't spat at your microphone.Are
0:35:05 > 0:35:14you sure it is actually shorter? -- sugar?Will Donnelly, what's your
0:35:14 > 0:35:24question?Will Britain get Brexit in anything other than name?We have
0:35:24 > 0:35:30Davis Brough and Brexino, the people who are dubbed Brexinos by Tory
0:35:30 > 0:35:33colleagues, those who have been complaining and amending and trying
0:35:33 > 0:35:37to change the legislation, that's what the Cabinet is trying to figure
0:35:37 > 0:35:41out today and tomorrow, so at the moment we don't know. One member of
0:35:41 > 0:35:46Cabinet said to me ten days ago, well, we may end up like Norway,
0:35:46 > 0:35:51paying a lot of money to pretend we are not in the EU. Or it may well be
0:35:51 > 0:35:55that the Brexit side of the argument wins the debate and of course it
0:35:55 > 0:35:59does not just depend on them but it also depends what the EU is ready to
0:35:59 > 0:36:05give way or compromise on in the negotiations.
0:36:05 > 0:36:09Two things I say is on paper right now it looks like Theresa May's hope
0:36:09 > 0:36:16of getting the best of both, having cake and eating it,... I have had
0:36:16 > 0:36:24jammed Dodgers. It looks like her hope of getting the best of both,
0:36:24 > 0:36:29not having Brexit in name that having advantage is, that looks
0:36:29 > 0:36:34very, very, very hard. But it is important to say a few months ago it
0:36:34 > 0:36:38looks as though what she wanted to get in phase one will very hard and
0:36:38 > 0:36:45in the end it you got compromised. Yes, of course the UK coughed up the
0:36:45 > 0:36:49money but the EU compromised a bit. Do you think we will get it in
0:36:49 > 0:36:56anything but named?I think we will leave but will go from the position
0:36:56 > 0:37:05to half in 2/2 hour.What does that mean few?Disgraceful. Because we
0:37:05 > 0:37:08voted to leave the EU and become a self-governing nation and I think
0:37:08 > 0:37:15that we are seeing is the Trail is happening before our very eyes.
0:37:15 > 0:37:24Anybody agree or disagree with that? I was having a conversation with a
0:37:24 > 0:37:28close remaining friend of mine, he is an honourable chap, but then
0:37:28 > 0:37:36failed tweeted out -- Raphael. Parliamentary remainers,
0:37:36 > 0:37:42parliamentary scrutiny, jolly good, remainers outside on the public on
0:37:42 > 0:37:45Twitter, great, fantastic, brilliant. Back to parliamentary
0:37:45 > 0:37:48remainers, you are not helping. There is an understanding from
0:37:48 > 0:37:58Brexiteer s, the Anna Soubry 's of this world, that is their intention.
0:37:58 > 0:38:02She pretends, I get very offended when people think she is trying to
0:38:02 > 0:38:07stop Brexit but wants to be in the single market and Customs union, if
0:38:07 > 0:38:12you are in those you have to obey all of the laws of the EU and have a
0:38:12 > 0:38:16tariff structure and you cannot have your own trade deals. That is in the
0:38:16 > 0:38:24EU, in reality.Even if we are out. Can I ask both of you, normally in
0:38:24 > 0:38:27Parliament MPs make changes, they liked bits and vote against it. Do
0:38:27 > 0:38:32you think because this is a result of the referendum that it feels
0:38:32 > 0:38:37different? You don't want MPs to do what they see as their normal job.I
0:38:37 > 0:38:42think Brexiteers are cynical about this argument of working
0:38:42 > 0:38:45parliamentary scrutiny from both sides of both political parties who
0:38:45 > 0:38:50want to go back to a situation where the legislation just passes through
0:38:50 > 0:38:55with a nod and a wink and directors don't touch Parliament. There is a
0:38:55 > 0:38:59cynicism and I think it is very justified because I think they are
0:38:59 > 0:39:03pretty much semi open about what they want to do. Even Dominic
0:39:03 > 0:39:08grieve, who comes across as a man of integrity, he is up for delaying.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12This amendment going through gives the Lords a chance to delay and it
0:39:12 > 0:39:20is in the hope of wanting the public opinion to turn around.Through.
0:39:20 > 0:39:25There is definitely suspicion on all sides of.Where is hand, she has a
0:39:25 > 0:39:28very good question.
0:39:29 > 0:39:29-- Ann.
0:39:32 > 0:39:39I think it is only just beginning because all trade agreement require
0:39:39 > 0:39:43regular Tory alignment. I work in financial services and you have seen
0:39:43 > 0:39:49global alignment, as well as within Europe. From a business perspective,
0:39:49 > 0:39:53the idea that you will suddenly run off and do something completely
0:39:53 > 0:39:56different, nobody is that interested from the business perspective anyway
0:39:56 > 0:40:01because they put the current processes in place. But secondly I
0:40:01 > 0:40:05think there is a degree of realism that if we want to trade in the
0:40:05 > 0:40:09future we are going to have to continue to work in a similar
0:40:09 > 0:40:12system. It then becomes a question of, where do you have your say? The
0:40:12 > 0:40:19EU is a very powerful status sat around the world.What was your
0:40:19 > 0:40:27question?Has romance blossomed in the discussion room when the leaders
0:40:27 > 0:40:35pull an all-night?I have never been in a less... Well I have been in
0:40:35 > 0:40:45less romantic places. I would imagine, it ranks it up there. It is
0:40:45 > 0:40:51a massive open plan, neon lit room full of great looking journalist who
0:40:51 > 0:40:56get more grey as the summit progresses and by the time you get
0:40:56 > 0:41:04to that 2am German press briefing I think any little bit that might have
0:41:04 > 0:41:13existed...I was in the lift for two hours.The other thing is that when
0:41:13 > 0:41:18I first went to summit, it used to be and it is now not the case, thank
0:41:18 > 0:41:23goodness, it was the case that booze was free during summits, which when
0:41:23 > 0:41:27I first went I thought was absolutely quiet mind blowing. They
0:41:27 > 0:41:33ruled that out a while ago. Any hope that there might have been that it
0:41:33 > 0:41:39could have been wheeled along by the free Belgian beer...Bring in the
0:41:39 > 0:41:48trolley!And typecast and it four hour news has put an end to any of
0:41:48 > 0:41:55that press behaviour.I am hearing in my ear that actually have some
0:41:55 > 0:41:59breaking news, do you recall a couple of weeks ago you reminded us
0:41:59 > 0:42:04of what you did in a previous life when you told Austrian children the
0:42:04 > 0:42:08benefits of learning English? We managed to find footage of you doing
0:42:08 > 0:42:14it. Looked up on the screen and you will see it. We will post it on
0:42:14 > 0:42:28Twitter. Let's see.Children were always important, the show makes
0:42:28 > 0:42:33learning English fun, not only on radio but also in the classroom.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37Huckle the cat visited hundreds of schools throughout the provinces,
0:42:37 > 0:42:46bringing very fun and happy laughter to English lessons.Does that bring
0:42:46 > 0:42:55back happy memories?I have to tell you the funniest memories of. The
0:42:55 > 0:43:02cat was a British man, these were Austrian schools. We used to often
0:43:02 > 0:43:07visit three schools are gay and in particular, in this particular case
0:43:07 > 0:43:12we went to an Austrian Catholic boys boarding school and Huckle used to
0:43:12 > 0:43:19get very hot inside his costume, so he always used to carry a final with
0:43:19 > 0:43:26him to have a little wash. He would ask the schools if he could have a
0:43:26 > 0:43:30changing room where he could have a wash and change are pretty dam the
0:43:30 > 0:43:37hokey pokey. Am I a really going to tell this story? This is the third
0:43:37 > 0:43:42school of the day and he went off and I wasn't there, a have to tell
0:43:42 > 0:43:46you, he told me the story afterwards. He went there and it was
0:43:46 > 0:43:50a chemistry lab and he stood there, he said he didn't even take off the
0:43:50 > 0:43:58costume, he unzipped it, put on a tap to wash what he described as his
0:43:58 > 0:44:07family jewels. Right back at which point a class of 21 13 -year-olds
0:44:07 > 0:44:10Catholic schoolboys and their priest chemist master walked into the
0:44:10 > 0:44:18chemistry lab. He walked out of their. I could just see the no local
0:44:18 > 0:44:23newspaper, British cat exposes himself.Within sites like that what
0:44:23 > 0:44:30better chance for us to say if you are new to Brexitcast, please do
0:44:30 > 0:44:35download us for your pod cast. For further such insights from the top
0:44:35 > 0:44:41RAS of BBC journalism on a weekly basis.Will you be having a wash
0:44:41 > 0:44:48after this, Chris?I think what we are going to do in the last minute
0:44:48 > 0:44:55or so, 2018 in a minute. What happens next? Katya Adler after your
0:44:55 > 0:45:01masterclass of storytelling, we will turn to Laura first.Legal version
0:45:01 > 0:45:06of the phase one agreement talks about transition, the UK wants to
0:45:06 > 0:45:10get it done by much but we don't know if that will happen. The big
0:45:10 > 0:45:13thing, it heads of terms, the main thrust of the agreement should be
0:45:13 > 0:45:21done in the autumn, that is quite a timetable.And across the Channel?
0:45:21 > 0:45:27If they are not doing the same thing then that is a big problem.January
0:45:27 > 0:45:32is seen as a rest months. At the end of January Michel Barnier will get
0:45:32 > 0:45:35his remit to discuss transition and we started off about the
0:45:35 > 0:45:40relationship. Important to know that we are not getting is a trade deal.
0:45:40 > 0:45:45Impossible under EU regulations. As much progress will be made as
0:45:45 > 0:45:49possible but nothing signed on a future trade deal.Bank you all.
0:45:49 > 0:45:54Thanks to all of our Brexitcasters that came here and thank you for
0:45:54 > 0:46:00listening on the news channel.And leave us a review and thank our
0:46:00 > 0:46:04audience!IMac. -- APPLAUSE
0:46:04 > 0:46:04leave us a review and thank our audience!IMac. -- APPLAUSE.
0:46:12 > 0:46:15Don't forget to subscribe to get the thing on what