07/12/2011

:00:24. > :00:27.Good morning and welcome to the programme. It is the final

:00:27. > :00:34.programme before the politicians in Cardiff they take their Christmas

:00:34. > :00:37.break. On today's programme, we will be at Prime Minister's

:00:37. > :00:41.Questions as David Cameron says he will protect British interest

:00:41. > :00:46.within the euro-zone. And the Welsh Government budget has been passed,

:00:46. > :00:56.finally. What could it do to improve our economy?

:00:56. > :00:59.

:00:59. > :01:05.I'll be speaking to three of the four party leaders in the Assembly.

:01:05. > :01:09.I am joined this morning by Labour's Ann Jones. Hopefully we

:01:09. > :01:15.will be receiving William Graham from the Conservatives later on in

:01:15. > :01:18.the programme. Firstly, the Welsh Government spending plans for the

:01:18. > :01:22.next financial year were approved yesterday. The budget was passed

:01:22. > :01:27.with the support of the Liberal Democrats. They secured an extra

:01:27. > :01:35.�20 million worth of funding for schools. The Conservatives and

:01:35. > :01:38.Plaid Cymru voted against the budget, criticising the priorities.

:01:38. > :01:43.I put to you today a budget for growth and jobs which responds to

:01:43. > :01:46.the deeply troubling and alarming times we are all living in. I

:01:47. > :01:52.believe we can govern responsibly with our commitment to social

:01:52. > :01:56.justice and economic renewal which is the grain of values to their

:01:56. > :02:04.elected members across this Chamber and the commitment of this was to

:02:04. > :02:14.have made. That was Jane Hutt. What do you

:02:14. > :02:18.make of the budget? I am very pleased. I have not always been

:02:18. > :02:25.pleased. But I am very pleased with it. It is a Budget for Jobs, budget

:02:25. > :02:28.for growth. I think we can see some real progress being made. The

:02:28. > :02:33.negotiations had taken place, all credit to the Government. It has

:02:33. > :02:38.not been easy. But I think that we have a good all-round deal for the

:02:38. > :02:42.people of Wales. It has been described as a budget for jobs and

:02:42. > :02:47.growth. I can say the Government have neglected to deal with the

:02:47. > :02:50.economic crisis. I do not think they have it all. We have difficult

:02:50. > :02:54.circumstances. We have had the budget slashed from the

:02:54. > :02:57.Conservatives at Westminster. We have tried to look at things and I

:02:57. > :03:03.can see there being certainly within my constituency, there are

:03:03. > :03:07.some signs that we will be seeing jobs and growth in North Wales. I

:03:07. > :03:15.think it was sour grapes from Plaid Cymru. Their leader was the

:03:15. > :03:22.economic Minister in the One Wales Government. He asked to shoulder

:03:22. > :03:24.some of the blame. We will hear from Ieuan Wyn Jones later in the

:03:24. > :03:32.programme. Let's deal with the Conservatives accusation that you

:03:32. > :03:41.were taken hundreds of millions of pounds out of the health service. -

:03:41. > :03:44.- taking. I think that the health budget has been protected. We have

:03:44. > :03:52.detected it. We always said we would. For the Conservatives to say

:03:52. > :03:55.they wanted more money in health and then risk a 20 % cut in L --

:03:55. > :04:04.education, adding that is pretty rich from them. They have never

:04:05. > :04:07.been friends of the NHS. We have put money into the health service.

:04:07. > :04:17.There are always the health service will have to change. We recognise

:04:17. > :04:23.that. I do think that for them to say that, at the risk of taking 20

:04:23. > :04:31.% out of the education budget, that is a 5th of the education budget.

:04:31. > :04:35.But is a bit rich. -- that is. It took about the Liberal Democrats.

:04:35. > :04:42.It could be seen as the Government passing the test of being a

:04:42. > :04:45.minority Government. You are to cave-in to Liberal Democrat demands.

:04:45. > :04:53.I think what they were asking for is something that I am quite

:04:53. > :04:57.comfortable with. I think they have negotiated fairly well. I think

:04:57. > :05:00.that is the test of a minority Government. The negotiations that

:05:00. > :05:04.Jane Hutt and ministers have had to do have had to be handled

:05:04. > :05:13.sensitively. We are a minority Government but we are a Government

:05:13. > :05:19.that will stand up for Wales. We can now go down to Cardiff Bay.

:05:19. > :05:25.What is going on today? There is a lot going on today. There's an

:05:25. > :05:31.early start today. It starts at 12:30pm. I think that is because of

:05:31. > :05:34.the strike last week. They lost a lot of business. Quite a lot to get

:05:34. > :05:43.through. Questions to the Health Minister, Lesley Griffiths. Then

:05:43. > :05:48.there will be questions to the Counsel General. Following those,

:05:48. > :05:54.the debate. An interesting one to start off with. A cross-party

:05:54. > :05:58.debate on the metro system. Some kind of integrated transport system

:05:58. > :06:03.on the valleys lines, using the infrastructure there and adding to

:06:03. > :06:09.it. It should be interesting to see what that is all about. It would

:06:10. > :06:12.need some kind of input from other administrations. The

:06:12. > :06:20.electrification that would be necessary, that is something that

:06:20. > :06:23.lies with Westminster. It should be interesting. Moving on, the

:06:23. > :06:28.Conservatives have a couple of debate tabled, one on higher

:06:28. > :06:32.education. They would like to see improved teaching standards. There

:06:32. > :06:36.will be putting their case on that later on. They also want to

:06:36. > :06:40.scrutinise the Government's plans to bring together the Environment

:06:40. > :06:48.Agency, the Countryside Council and the Forestry Commission and the one

:06:48. > :06:52.environmental body. Plaid Cymru want to talk about the economy.

:06:52. > :06:57.They do not think there is sufficient stimulus for that.

:06:57. > :07:07.Liberal Democrats want to talk about retail. Very topical. At the

:07:07. > :07:10.

:07:10. > :07:15.end of the afternoon, we have the short debate on credit rates.

:07:15. > :07:22.Thank you. A busy day lies ahead. We will speak to you later in the

:07:22. > :07:32.programme. You can keep across what is happening by clicking on our

:07:32. > :07:38.

:07:38. > :07:46.website. The address is on the screen. Let head of the Westminster.

:07:46. > :07:49.Good morning. The budget is an issue that will not go away. It is

:07:49. > :07:54.Europe at Westminster. There is a summit at the end of the week.

:07:54. > :07:58.David Cameron has been trying to make his position clear. There are

:07:58. > :08:02.plenty of Conservative Euro-sceptic MPs who think that problems in the

:08:02. > :08:10.euro-zone on a perfect opportunity to take powers back from Brussels.

:08:10. > :08:18.They see this summer at the end of the week as a good place to start.

:08:18. > :08:21.-- summit. David Cameron gave a cast-iron guarantee before the last

:08:21. > :08:27.general election that any changes to the European treaty structure

:08:27. > :08:31.would involve a referendum in Britain. If you read the interview

:08:31. > :08:37.in the Times this morning, the tone from David Cameron is a little bit

:08:37. > :08:45.different. He is threatening AV -- veto on any changes that Angela

:08:45. > :08:48.Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy propose at the end of the week. He is not

:08:48. > :08:52.talking about bringing anything back from Brussels to Westminster

:08:52. > :09:00.at this stage. Kenneth Clarke, the it -- the Justice secretary, has

:09:00. > :09:04.said much the same thing in an interview.

:09:04. > :09:14.The Tory right is not very happy about that. It will be interesting

:09:14. > :09:14.

:09:14. > :09:17.to watch Prime Minister's Questions. When the Prime Minister saw the

:09:17. > :09:20.order question this morning, he might have been taking a deep

:09:20. > :09:29.intake of breath when he saw the first question from Andrew

:09:29. > :09:39.Rossendale, the Conservative MP for Ross -- Romford. He tends to

:09:39. > :09:45.

:09:45. > :09:49.campaign in a Union Jack waistcoat. OK, we will leave Brussels for a

:09:49. > :09:55.moment. I am sure there will be plenty of focus on the economy here.

:09:55. > :10:05.The Government lost the vote last night on the economy. This was a

:10:05. > :10:09.

:10:09. > :10:14.Labour debate on the economy which went on called every week. -- which

:10:14. > :10:24.we get called every week. Alistair Darling was suggesting that the

:10:24. > :10:29.euro-zone leaders had not got it right. Until everything has

:10:29. > :10:38.happened, the UK economy will still be suffering. He had a go what

:10:38. > :10:42.George Osborne, his successor. It all developed on predictable lines

:10:42. > :10:45.for it -- but a surprise at the end. There is not usually a photon these

:10:45. > :10:55.debates but the Labour whips had a little under the radar operation

:10:55. > :10:56.

:10:56. > :11:02.and forced a surprise vote at the end. -- vote on. Eight. Of trivia,

:11:02. > :11:05.this is the first Commons defeat for the coalition Government. Lader

:11:05. > :11:15.at -- Labour are happy that has come on the big issue of the

:11:15. > :11:15.

:11:15. > :11:23.economy. It is a little bit embarrassing for the party it

:11:23. > :11:26.raised a smile from our Labour representative on the sofa.

:11:26. > :11:29.committee of MPs has been looking at who should be sitting in the

:11:29. > :11:32.House of Lords. They are taking their lessons off

:11:33. > :11:36.the telly. This is the constitutional political reform

:11:36. > :11:41.committee. Their job is to look at the nooks and crannies and suggest

:11:41. > :11:44.ways that things could be brought into the 21st century. They have a

:11:44. > :11:49.report suggesting some changes should be made to the way that

:11:49. > :11:54.hereditary Peers operate in the House of Lords. There are 92 of

:11:54. > :12:02.them left. They had been watching Downton Abbey on another channel.

:12:02. > :12:05.They have this rule that only males can inherit hereditary titles. They

:12:06. > :12:14.say that is very old fashioned and daughters should be able to inherit

:12:14. > :12:22.titles. They suggest that titles -- problems from Downton Abbey are a

:12:22. > :12:32.lesson for us all. Take a lesson from television. I enjoined doubt

:12:32. > :12:35.it -- I enjoyed doubt and Abbey, even if it is on another channel.

:12:35. > :12:45.I ask you every week to get in touch with us. Why don't you have a

:12:45. > :12:53.

:12:53. > :13:01.go at getting in touch with us? The Let's have a chat with our guests.

:13:01. > :13:06.William Graham, good morning. We spoke earlier about the Assembly

:13:06. > :13:12.Government's budget. Ann Jones was obviously delighted with it. I do

:13:12. > :13:16.not know whether you will feel the same way. I congratulate the Labour

:13:16. > :13:22.group on making a good decision. They picked off the weakest and got

:13:23. > :13:27.the Lib Dems, they were desperate to do something. The budget has

:13:28. > :13:33.been passed. There is a lot of posturing. I congratulate the

:13:33. > :13:37.Labour Party on getting their budget through. They had a

:13:37. > :13:42.reasonable majority yesterday. heard about some political

:13:42. > :13:46.shenanigans at Westminster and the way that. -- politics happens, you

:13:46. > :13:56.see this deal that Labour have made very much a deal of political

:13:56. > :13:58.

:13:58. > :14:02.necessity. Yes, doing as little as possible, I think we could probably

:14:02. > :14:05.think that by next Easter we will probably have a coalition

:14:05. > :14:11.Government in the Assembly. I suspect none of the Labour members

:14:11. > :14:17.will want it. It may be forced on them for the future. For my money,

:14:17. > :14:23.that will be with Plaid Cymru. Another coalition of Plaid Cymru?

:14:23. > :14:30.You were not mad about that idea last time. There are 30 of us in

:14:30. > :14:35.the Assembly Labour group. We have managed so far. The negotiations

:14:35. > :14:39.through the Budget, it is not time to start talking about coalitions.

:14:39. > :14:45.We have set our programme out for Government and I will have some

:14:45. > :14:55.strong words to say if a suggestion comes true. There will be no Easter

:14:55. > :14:57.

:14:57. > :15:03.eggs if that happens! It is just speculation. We will head off to

:15:03. > :15:07.the gallery. Mark is following the leaders around today.

:15:07. > :15:17.I'm delighted to say I am joined by the leader of Plaid Cymru, Ieuan

:15:17. > :15:22.Wyn Jones. Let's talk about It did not have the economic

:15:22. > :15:27.stimulus week felt was essential. We know growth is going to be down

:15:27. > :15:32.and unemployment is going to be up. Families are going to be hard

:15:32. > :15:36.pressed. This government seems to be acting as if nothing has changed

:15:36. > :15:40.since the election in May. Is that the case? It is difficult for

:15:40. > :15:44.people outside to get past the politics. They are hearing about

:15:45. > :15:50.schools building programmes, transport, it seems things are

:15:50. > :15:56.happening. They know the Government does not have much money. Let us be

:15:56. > :15:59.honest, everyone can agree, these are the figures, there are �680

:15:59. > :16:04.million being stripped out of the Government's capital budget over

:16:04. > :16:10.this term. That means less schools will be built, less roads, less

:16:10. > :16:14.railway, less hospitals. Everybody agrees. The announcement of school

:16:14. > :16:19.building is not a definite announcement, it is what might

:16:19. > :16:23.happen if certain circumstances arise. I do not think the kind of

:16:23. > :16:28.economic stimulus the economy now needs is something this Government

:16:28. > :16:38.is addressing. What would you take away in order to do the things you

:16:38. > :16:44.want? It is about adding. People advising the Government are saying

:16:44. > :16:50.you need a capital injection of �2.6 billion -- two. Did billion

:16:50. > :16:55.pounds in order to stimulate growth. That will have to come from

:16:55. > :16:59.Westminster. The Assembly budget is not big enough. We will need some

:16:59. > :17:02.from pension funds in the private sector. That is the kind of

:17:02. > :17:06.ambitious programme at this Government should be doing. Some of

:17:06. > :17:13.that is outside the Welsh block. What are they doing in order to

:17:13. > :17:17.address that? What can they do? Their hands are not tied. We have

:17:18. > :17:22.got to be ambitious for Wales. It is not about 100 million here and

:17:22. > :17:29.there are, it is about big, bold positive statements will stop the

:17:29. > :17:33.kind of projects we put forward, bringing in outside my, private

:17:33. > :17:38.capital alongside the Government's money, would take us a lot further.

:17:38. > :17:44.We put that forward in the election. The Government, of course, here,

:17:45. > :17:49.the Labour Party rubbished it. It is far too slow. I want to talk

:17:49. > :17:54.about the year just gone and the year ahead. A mixed year for you

:17:54. > :17:58.and Plaid Cymru. As the party, you achieve that long term aim of

:17:58. > :18:05.getting a referendum through. But you were punished at the election.

:18:05. > :18:15.You've lost seats. That is the way politics is. There are always ups

:18:15. > :18:21.and Ms. -- down ats. I have seen it all. You have to remember politics

:18:21. > :18:28.comes in cycles. Plaid Cymru has now put forward a bid platform for

:18:28. > :18:34.the future. We have the review, which we will look at in the new

:18:34. > :18:37.year. We have a lot to play for. Coming on to the new leader, the

:18:37. > :18:42.lesson it must that person learn from the experience last year? A

:18:42. > :18:47.lot of people might say, you did get across a lot of things you

:18:47. > :18:51.wanted to do but you did not get the results you wanted. It is not

:18:51. > :18:56.inevitable the junior partner will be punished. He is a risk you might

:18:56. > :19:03.need to take. P Kahl at every single event. You have to look at

:19:03. > :19:07.the trend. -- it is not a single event. It is all relative.

:19:07. > :19:12.Sometimes you are up or down. You have to build the party that is

:19:12. > :19:16.capable of taking over the Government of Wales. That is really

:19:16. > :19:20.the task of Plaid Cymru. All the candidates understand that. Up you

:19:20. > :19:28.have to appeal to everybody in Wales, whatever their background.

:19:28. > :19:35.Is that sometimes a difficulty, that you have to reach out?

:19:35. > :19:39.Politics is about what if. If everybody at any time who has voted

:19:39. > :19:44.for Plaid Cymru in the past, if they did at once, we could be a

:19:44. > :19:47.very significant falls. But you have got to be able to appeal to a

:19:47. > :19:50.broad church, if you like, more consistently, and that is one of

:19:51. > :19:55.the lessons. The experience of being in government has strengthen

:19:55. > :19:59.the party in a way I did not think was possible. People now know you

:20:00. > :20:04.can trust Plaid Cymru running the country. That is an experience we

:20:04. > :20:09.never had before. That will give the new leader something to build

:20:09. > :20:16.on. We know you have been leader for a long time. It is not for too

:20:16. > :20:24.much longer. What are your plans? Do you intend to stay on as an AM?

:20:24. > :20:27.My intention is to stay on as an Assembly Member. I am looking

:20:27. > :20:36.forward to doing other things, getting out of the pressure cooker

:20:36. > :20:40.of being party leader for a decade or so. It is a high pressure. I

:20:40. > :20:44.will be looking forward to doing other things. There are lots of

:20:44. > :20:48.things I want to do. I have not decided exactly but I have a few

:20:48. > :20:53.ideas will stop one final question. Looking across the Welsh politics,

:20:53. > :20:57.what are people looking out for next year? I think it is the way

:20:57. > :21:00.you respond to the economic crisis. Nothing compares to this. He does

:21:00. > :21:05.not matter what you do, unless you can tackle the underlying problems

:21:05. > :21:10.which are facing the Welsh economy, you are going to beat her in real

:21:11. > :21:13.trouble. The eurozone crisis is another matter. Politics is so

:21:13. > :21:18.unpredictable these days. You cannot foresee what will happen.

:21:18. > :21:24.You must do what you can do, using the instruments you have got, in

:21:24. > :21:28.order to address issues. People feel depressed and powerless.

:21:28. > :21:32.do. If you listen to George Osborne, I have never heard such a

:21:32. > :21:37.pessimistic statement in my life. It was like there was no light at

:21:37. > :21:41.the tunnel -- at the end of the tunnel. There has to be light at

:21:41. > :21:49.the end of the tunnel. Economic cycles have the light political

:21:49. > :21:58.cycles. The question is, how long will it be? It is interesting times.

:21:58. > :22:00.Thank you. I think I sought the Leader of the

:22:00. > :22:06.Opposition lurking in the background. We will be speaking

:22:06. > :22:12.with him later. Let us reflect on what Ieuan Wyn Jones said. William

:22:12. > :22:15.Graham, I will start with you. Ieuan Wyn Jones say George Osborne

:22:15. > :22:19.painted a very miserable and pessimistic picture last week

:22:19. > :22:25.during the Autumn Statement. It is different to what he initially said

:22:25. > :22:30.about growth figures. It is. That was pretty much drivel. The major

:22:30. > :22:34.parties are well aware of the economic crisis we are facing. He

:22:34. > :22:38.is talking about spending more money. Of course the Government

:22:38. > :22:42.would like to spend more money. The reality is, we are having to pay

:22:42. > :22:46.off our debts. But the moment, we are spending hundreds of millions

:22:46. > :22:51.of pounds every day of the week just on that interest will stop he

:22:51. > :22:55.is talking about what money can be spent and how it could raise more

:22:55. > :23:02.money. That is all very well but at the moment both parties realise we

:23:02. > :23:06.are under constraints. The Welsh government by using the money they

:23:06. > :23:16.have got. Everybody wants more but the reality is, there is no more

:23:16. > :23:16.

:23:16. > :23:26.money may we have to use our money well. There has to be prudent

:23:26. > :23:28.

:23:28. > :23:34.measures now. That is why the nationalists are asking for more

:23:34. > :23:40.money, they think there are votes in it. What Dafydd Elis-Thomas --

:23:40. > :23:44.what Ieuan Wyn Jones is saying, they have an idea that will raise

:23:44. > :23:48.money. That will pay for capital projects that have been slashed by

:23:48. > :23:53.your Government and William's government in London. I think

:23:53. > :23:59.William is right. We have recognised we are in difficult

:23:59. > :24:03.times. The way out of it is a matter of priority. That is why Ed

:24:03. > :24:08.Balls' plan is a good plan. That was to reduce VAT, get more

:24:08. > :24:14.construction people back into work. Ieuan Wyn Jones talks about Wales,

:24:14. > :24:17.but they lost the election. People want to see a good, sensible

:24:17. > :24:22.government working through difficult times. The Welsh

:24:22. > :24:26.government here has done that. It has budgeted for growth and jobs.

:24:26. > :24:34.We will see that money being spent wisely and with priorities attached

:24:34. > :24:40.to it. If you keep repeating jobs and growth, people will believe you

:24:40. > :24:48.in the end. One leader down. Do you have another on?

:24:48. > :24:52.Yes. The Welsh Conservative leader in the Assembly. You said it was

:24:52. > :24:57.too early to say Compliments of the season. But it is our last

:24:57. > :25:01.programme. Let us say -- let us talk about yesterday. You said he

:25:01. > :25:07.did not do what you wanted for health. What would you have liked

:25:08. > :25:13.it to do for help? It was disappointing on a number of fronts.

:25:13. > :25:18.It has not done anything for the Welsh NHS. It will see savage cuts.

:25:18. > :25:22.We are hearing from other health professionals and seeing the

:25:22. > :25:25.waiting times going up. They are not having the experience they

:25:25. > :25:34.should be having. But failed miserably for the people of Wales

:25:34. > :25:38.will stop we are seeing a cash increase. A real-terms cut. That is

:25:38. > :25:48.inevitable. Getting the on the politics, the situation is, there

:25:48. > :25:53.is not a enough money to go around. We should protect health. Everyone

:25:53. > :25:59.is doing it in Westminster, that puts the Welsh NHS at a massive

:25:59. > :26:03.disadvantage. That is the big drive of economic activity. It is 40% of

:26:03. > :26:10.the Budget. It is a large employer here in Wells. There are massive

:26:10. > :26:14.repercussions from this Budget. -- in Wales. We need to protect the

:26:14. > :26:18.nation's Health and stimulate economic growth. But whatever the

:26:18. > :26:24.Government did, given the pot is not big enough, there would have

:26:24. > :26:29.been suffering somewhere? They have tried to spread the pain. If they

:26:29. > :26:38.had protected health, there would have been cuts in other areas like

:26:38. > :26:43.education. Rubbish. There were never cuts of 20 present in

:26:43. > :26:47.education. -- 20%. We showed how you could do the up over �100

:26:47. > :26:52.million by having direct funding to schools in Wales and taking out

:26:52. > :26:56.bureaucracy. Many schools in Wales only receive 70% of the money that

:26:56. > :27:04.is dispatched from the Wales government -- the Welsh government.

:27:04. > :27:12.That is not acceptable. 90% of the money arrives at the school gates.

:27:12. > :27:17.I am a parent myself. Parents want to see the money they paid hitting

:27:17. > :27:22.the school will rooms. They want facilities for their children.

:27:22. > :27:32.There are ways to mitigate. We know is a tough Budget we have to face.

:27:32. > :27:32.

:27:32. > :27:37.You have to make sure you have your priorities and our priorities are

:27:37. > :27:41.clear. You said there was inactivity at government level, not

:27:41. > :27:45.enough was happening. I put it to you that we have had an NHS

:27:45. > :27:49.programme unveiled in the last couple of weeks, we are going to

:27:49. > :27:53.have a transport plan unveiled today. There was a school bill

:27:53. > :27:57.unveiled. Things are happening in a difficult environment. I know you

:27:57. > :28:01.are trying your best but the Government are trying to find out

:28:01. > :28:06.what activity means. There is in activity on the Bath of the Welsh

:28:06. > :28:16.government. We were promised by a the First Minister three bills, we

:28:16. > :28:17.

:28:17. > :28:22.have one minor bill. The school bill is just a rehash of an old

:28:22. > :28:27.bill. It is a smaller programme over a longer period of time. It

:28:27. > :28:32.was a mix of ideas offering no direction to our Health Service. If

:28:32. > :28:36.you look at the economy, we have not had a statement from the

:28:36. > :28:40.Minister of Business and Enterprise and we just seven months into this

:28:40. > :28:45.Assembly term. I cannot think of another government in any other

:28:45. > :28:50.part of the world, where that economy is central to much of the

:28:50. > :28:58.thinking of people, that you do not get at least an oral statement so

:28:59. > :29:05.at that AMs can question it. All we have had is rehashing. As I said,

:29:05. > :29:09.we have had delay and dithering. are running out of time. One final

:29:10. > :29:14.question. What has been a great lesson of this year for you

:29:14. > :29:18.becoming the leader of the party? What do you hope for next year?

:29:18. > :29:22.Work to purpose and have strong ideals. That is what I stood for to

:29:22. > :29:26.become leader of the Welsh Conservatives. That is what I will

:29:26. > :29:35.carry through to next year. I hope we will continue the collaboration.

:29:35. > :29:39.Thank you. Let us go to the Commons soon. Before that, a quick word

:29:39. > :29:48.with our guests. Ann Jones, would you think will be the main issues

:29:48. > :29:54.we will see him Prime Minister's Questions? I think David Cameron

:29:54. > :29:58.will face a tough time from his backbenchers. William, I heard your

:29:58. > :30:04.former colleague on the radio this morning. He said he was a Euro-

:30:04. > :30:08.sceptic. He said he and his colleagues are going to give the

:30:08. > :30:15.Prime Minister some time to sort this out. Their patients may way

:30:15. > :30:21.thin if he does not give something from this discussion. He has said

:30:21. > :30:25.we cannot give more powers to Europe. He has to be definite that

:30:25. > :30:33.we will protect the city from some of these suggestions from Brussels

:30:33. > :30:37.will stop the knock-on effect is... It is dramatic. Our exports are

:30:37. > :30:42.hugely important to the economy. There must be protected. I am

:30:42. > :30:46.disappointed this press speculate on what will happen. I am pretty

:30:46. > :30:50.certain Cameron knows what he is going to do. He will have a very

:30:50. > :30:55.hard job with Europe but I think our party members will give him a

:30:55. > :31:05.chance to say, this is what I am trying to negotiate, and judge him

:31:05. > :31:08.

:31:08. > :31:12.on that. We will head to the Questions to the Prime Minister.

:31:12. > :31:15.Thank you. This morning, I had meetings with ministerial

:31:15. > :31:21.colleagues and in addition to my duties in this House, I will have

:31:21. > :31:26.further such meetings later today. Mr Speaker, the British people want

:31:26. > :31:31.to see two things from this week's European summit, firstly a resolute

:31:32. > :31:36.and uncompromising defence of Britain's national interests and

:31:36. > :31:42.secondly an end to the disastrous Euro crisis, a currency the party

:31:42. > :31:49.opposite want us to join. Will the Prime Minister do Prime Minister --

:31:49. > :31:54.Britain proud on Friday and show some bulldog spirit in Brussels?

:31:54. > :31:59.can guarantee that is exactly what I will do. The British national

:31:59. > :32:04.interest absolutely means that we need to help resolve this crisis in

:32:04. > :32:09.the euro-zone. It is freezing the British economy, just as it is

:32:09. > :32:14.freezing economies right across Europe. It is about jobs and growth

:32:14. > :32:17.and business and investment in the UK. At the same time, we must seek

:32:17. > :32:23.safeguards for Britain. And I can absolutely guarantee that as long

:32:23. > :32:27.as I am here, there is no prospect of joining the euro, something the

:32:28. > :32:33.right honourable Gentleman opposite takes a different view about.

:32:33. > :32:36.weeks ago, the Prime Minister said, the idea of some limited treaty

:32:36. > :32:43.change in the future giving us an opportunity to repatriate powers

:32:43. > :32:48.back to Britain. At the European summit, what powers will he be

:32:48. > :32:58.arguing to repatriate? As I had just explain, at the summit, let me

:32:58. > :32:59.

:32:59. > :33:03.explain... Order. We are all interested in the answer. We will

:33:03. > :33:08.have the key aim of inning to resolve the euro-zone crisis and we

:33:08. > :33:14.believe that means that means euro- zone countries coming together and

:33:14. > :33:18.doing more things together. If they choose to do that at a treaty that

:33:18. > :33:23.we are involved in, we would insist on some safeguards for Britain and

:33:23. > :33:30.yes, that means making sure we are stronger and better able to do

:33:30. > :33:35.things in the UK to protect our own national interests. Let me explain,

:33:35. > :33:39.the more that countries in the euro-zone ask for, the more we will

:33:39. > :33:48.ask for in return. But we will judge the art on the basis of what

:33:48. > :33:53.matters most to Britain. -- Judge that. The more talks, the more

:33:53. > :33:56.confusing his position is, quite frankly. Let me remind him on the

:33:56. > :34:04.eve of the biggest post-war rebellion against a Prime Minister

:34:04. > :34:08.on Europe, he was telling his backbenchers that the opportunity

:34:08. > :34:12.of a treaty change would mean in the future the repatriation of

:34:12. > :34:17.powers. That was his position six weeks ago. Today he wrote an

:34:17. > :34:21.article in the Times, not one mention of the repatriation of

:34:21. > :34:25.powers. Why does the Prime Minister think it is in the national

:34:25. > :34:34.interest to tell his backbenchers one thing to quell a rebellion on

:34:34. > :34:39.Europe and tell his European partners another? What we want to

:34:39. > :34:43.do, specifically and particularly in the area of financial services,

:34:43. > :34:50.where this country has a massive national interest, let me remind

:34:50. > :34:56.him, it is 10 % of GDP, it is 3% of our trade surplus. It is 7% of UK

:34:56. > :35:00.employment. I want to make sure we have more power and control in the

:35:00. > :35:06.end -- in the UK to determine the since. That is in complete contrast

:35:06. > :35:12.to the party opposite but gave away power after power. -- that gave

:35:12. > :35:18.away. They gave up our power and they made us join the bail-out fund.

:35:18. > :35:24.We have had to get out of the bail- out fund. They gave up our rebate

:35:24. > :35:31.Hants got nothing in return. You have one party, one Government that

:35:31. > :35:41.defends Britain's interest and another that always surrenders.

:35:41. > :35:42.

:35:42. > :35:47.think the short answer is... Order. I will say what I said a moment ago,

:35:47. > :35:52.people must be heard. That is what will happen, however long it takes.

:35:52. > :35:59.I think the short answer is that six weeks ago he was promising his

:35:59. > :36:04.backbenchers one thing and now he has changed. That is the reality

:36:04. > :36:08.from his prime Minister and the problem for Britain is that the

:36:08. > :36:12.most important European summit for a generation, it matters hugely for

:36:12. > :36:17.families and businesses up-and-down the country, the Prime Minister is

:36:18. > :36:21.simply left on the sidelines. Isn't the truth that we have a Prime

:36:21. > :36:28.Minister caught between his promises in opposition and the

:36:28. > :36:38.reality of Government? That is why Britain is losing out in Europe.

:36:38. > :36:40.

:36:40. > :36:45.Dudu some technical difficulties, He talks about being isolated. Let

:36:45. > :36:49.me just explain to him where we would be if we adopted Labour's

:36:49. > :36:54.policies. If we adopted your spending and deficit policies, and

:36:54. > :36:58.if we were in the euro, what we would find his I would not be going

:36:58. > :37:05.to Brussels to fight for Britain, I would be going to Brussels to get a

:37:05. > :37:09.bail-out! Under the proposals being put forward, Labour would put

:37:09. > :37:13.Britain in such a bad position that the tax changes would not be

:37:13. > :37:23.written by the Shadow Chancellor, they would be written by the German

:37:23. > :37:26.

:37:26. > :37:31.Chancellor! There is a wide range of views on Europe throughout this

:37:31. > :37:34.House. One can sense it from the response even to that remark. Will

:37:34. > :37:37.the Prime Minister take the straightforward message within to

:37:37. > :37:42.the European Council that the one thing most likely to unite the

:37:42. > :37:48.House of Commons would be the perception of a calculated assault

:37:48. > :37:53.from Brussels, not even in their interests, on the well-being of the

:37:53. > :38:02.UK financial services industry and on the 1.3 million people in our

:38:02. > :38:05.constituencies working. Of course we want to see greater balancing of

:38:05. > :38:09.our economy and more jobs in manufacturing and aerospace and

:38:09. > :38:15.technology. But the economy that we inherited is very dependent on

:38:15. > :38:18.financial services. We should celebrate the fact it is a world-

:38:18. > :38:22.class industry, not just for Britain but actually for Europe. It

:38:22. > :38:27.is absolutely vital that we safeguard it. We see it under

:38:27. > :38:32.continued regulatory attack from Brussels. There is an opportunity,

:38:32. > :38:35.particularly if there is a treaty, to ensure some safeguards not just

:38:35. > :38:40.for that industry but to give us greater power and control in terms

:38:40. > :38:43.of regulation in this House of Commons. I think that is in the

:38:43. > :38:50.interest of the entire country and something I will be fighting for on

:38:50. > :38:53.Friday. Does the Minister agree that the recent escalation of

:38:54. > :39:00.industrial action in the public sector which incidently in my part

:39:00. > :39:06.of the world was not... Is the result of yet -- genuine anger at

:39:06. > :39:10.the unfairness of Government action to deal with pension contributions?

:39:10. > :39:15.It is making people on low and middle incomes pay for the

:39:15. > :39:19.horrendous mistakes at the top. afraid the honourable Lady is just

:39:19. > :39:24.plain wrong. The lowest-paid workers are not being asked to

:39:25. > :39:29.contribute more to their pensions. In terms of fairness, let me just

:39:29. > :39:35.make this point, and do what we are offering, a primary-school teacher

:39:35. > :39:38.earning �32,000 per year could receive a pension worth �20,000. A

:39:38. > :39:43.private sector worker, the people putting their money into these

:39:43. > :39:48.pensions, a private sector worker would have to pay 38 % of their

:39:48. > :39:56.salary, almost half of their salary, to get an equivalent pension. There

:39:56. > :40:02.is an issue of fairness and we must play fair with the private sector.

:40:02. > :40:05.They are putting their money into these pensions. Does my right

:40:05. > :40:13.honourable friend agree with me that it is time for this country to

:40:13. > :40:17.leave Europe -- lead Europe into a new age? I do think there are

:40:17. > :40:21.opportunities for Britain in Europe. I think we should start on the

:40:21. > :40:24.premise that it is in Britain's interest to be in the single market.

:40:24. > :40:29.We are great trading nation, we need those markets open and we need

:40:29. > :40:32.to be able to determine the rules of those markets. As Europe changes,

:40:33. > :40:36.of course there are opportunities but the first priority at the end

:40:36. > :40:40.of this week must be to make sure that the euro-zone crisis that is

:40:40. > :40:44.having such a bad effect on our economy is resolved. At the same

:40:45. > :40:49.time, we should be clear about the national interest, safeguarding the

:40:49. > :40:59.single market, financial services, looking out for the interests of UK

:40:59. > :41:02.

:41:02. > :41:06.plc. Will the Prime is to be having his youth -- usual Christmas bash

:41:07. > :41:10.with Rebecca Brooks and Jeremy Clarkson? Will they be talking

:41:10. > :41:17.about how out of touch they are with British public opinion --

:41:17. > :41:27.Prime Minister. I seem to remember that the annual sleep over was with

:41:27. > :41:35.

:41:35. > :41:41.the Labour Prime Minister. I will be having a quiet family Christmas.

:41:41. > :41:46.Is it not the case that the bail- out after bail-out of the euro-zone

:41:46. > :41:52.will not save Europe or the euro zone but making Europe more

:41:52. > :41:55.competitive than cutting regulation and red tape on business? I think

:41:55. > :41:59.the honourable gentleman is entirely right. I can understand

:41:59. > :42:03.why leading members of the euro- zone like the Germans want to see

:42:03. > :42:10.if -- tougher fiscal rules about budget deficits for euro-zone

:42:10. > :42:17.members. At the heart of the crisis, it is caused by a current deficit

:42:17. > :42:21.in some kind -- some countries. Unless we solve the competitiveness

:42:21. > :42:25.problem, this crisis will keep occurring. Our argument has been

:42:25. > :42:33.through wild, you need tougher rules on budget deficits, you need

:42:33. > :42:37.to have the institutions acting strongly but you need to resolve

:42:37. > :42:43.the competitiveness problem in order to deal with this crisis. I

:42:43. > :42:48.will continue to make those points on Thursday and Friday.

:42:48. > :42:52.Next year, according to the Institute of Fiscal Studies, as a

:42:52. > :42:57.result of your economic policies, the poorest third of families will

:42:57. > :43:02.lose three times as much as the richest third? These figures are

:43:02. > :43:07.wrong. If you take all the things the Government has done, which is

:43:07. > :43:14.the right way to measure this, what you find is that the top 10 % C

:43:14. > :43:20.losses me 10 times greater than the bottom 10 % and that is fair.

:43:20. > :43:25.Another point that is important is if you take the richest 10 % in our

:43:25. > :43:30.country, day not only see that biggest reduction in cash terms,

:43:31. > :43:34.they see the biggest reduction of their income proportionately. It is

:43:34. > :43:42.incredibly difficult to do with the debt and deficit of the honourable

:43:42. > :43:47.gentleman and his party left behind. Mr Speaker, he is simply wrong

:43:47. > :43:53.again. The figures are bare and the poorest third are losing far more

:43:53. > :43:58.than the richest third. He used to say, I am not going to balance the

:43:58. > :44:08.budget on the backs of the bunch -- poor. He is right, he is not

:44:08. > :44:10.

:44:10. > :44:16.balancing the budget! 158 more -- �158 billion more borrowing. There

:44:16. > :44:21.is one group to give him credit where he is making... I do not

:44:21. > :44:26.think this has got the publicity it deserves. He is delaying for a year

:44:26. > :44:34.the tax on the private jets. At the same time as hitting the poorest

:44:34. > :44:39.families in this country. Can he confirm that a working mother

:44:39. > :44:45.earning �300 per week is seeing VAT going up, tax credits cut, child

:44:45. > :44:55.benefit frozen and maternity grant cut? He had 13 years to tax private

:44:55. > :44:55.

:44:55. > :44:59.jets. And now former Labour leaders are jetting around in them! He

:44:59. > :45:04.quotes the Institute for Fiscal Studies. What the in situ said

:45:04. > :45:10.about Labour's plans specifically, Labour's policies would lead to

:45:10. > :45:18.even higher debt levels over this Parliament -- Institute. They do

:45:18. > :45:28.not like to hear it when their own policies are taken apart. Calm down.

:45:28. > :45:32.

:45:32. > :45:38.I want to get down the order paper. If the Prime Minister wants to give

:45:38. > :45:43.a brief answer, be brief. His plans imply higher debt levels

:45:43. > :45:47.than those we will in fact see. If you want the stimulus we are giving

:45:47. > :45:56.the economy by low interest rates, you have to stick to our plans.

:45:56. > :46:01.There is not a party in Europe that back his party's plans.

:46:01. > :46:05.He does not understand. He is cutting too far and too fast. That

:46:05. > :46:13.is why we have problems in mind that economy. He does not want to

:46:13. > :46:17.tell us what the i f a s say about his plans. -- the IFS. The new tax

:46:17. > :46:22.on benefit measures are at a takeaway from lower income families

:46:22. > :46:28.with children. The figures speak for themselves. His changes are

:46:28. > :46:34.hitting women are twice as hard as men. Is not the truth that he is

:46:34. > :46:39.the first Prime Minister in modern times to say to the women and

:46:39. > :46:45.children, no. His soundbite get weaker and weaker as his leadership

:46:45. > :46:50.gets weaker. If you look at what we have done, lifting 1.1 million

:46:50. > :46:54.people out of tax, that is mostly women that benefit. If you look at

:46:54. > :46:59.the increase in pension, �5.35 starting next April, that will

:46:59. > :47:02.benefit mostly women. If you take the issue of public sector pensions,

:47:02. > :47:07.where we are helping the lowest- paid in the public sector, that

:47:07. > :47:11.will help women. If we are giving the economy a suddenly it's her by

:47:11. > :47:16.keeping our interest rates low. We have interest rates at 2% while

:47:16. > :47:20.they are at 5% in Italy, Spain, 30% in Greece. We followed his advice,

:47:20. > :47:25.interest rates would rocket, businesses would go bust and more

:47:25. > :47:34.people would be out of work. That is what will Labour offer and that

:47:34. > :47:37.is why they will never be trusted with our economy again.

:47:37. > :47:42.constituents are having great difficulty accessing reasonable

:47:42. > :47:50.finance. A major contributor is lack of competition. Will the

:47:50. > :47:54.Government consider breaking up and create more competition on a high

:47:54. > :47:58.street? We have opportunities to increase the of competition on a

:47:58. > :48:02.high street. We look to return the state banks into the private sector.

:48:02. > :48:07.We have managed to take one important step forward, to get

:48:07. > :48:17.Northern Rock back out their lending to businesses and to

:48:17. > :48:17.

:48:18. > :48:27.households, properly established. They closed questioned. Labour MP.

:48:28. > :48:30.

:48:30. > :48:35.We move on, he is not here. Conservative backbencher. May I

:48:35. > :48:39.suggest a fundamental renegotiation of our relationship with the EU

:48:40. > :48:45.based on free trade, growth and competitiveness which other

:48:45. > :48:50.countries enjoyed and not political union and did wage regulation? This

:48:50. > :48:53.EU summer it is a defining moment, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

:48:53. > :48:57.Will the Prime Minister sees the moment?

:48:57. > :49:02.I am more optimistic than the honourable gentleman. The bail-out

:49:02. > :49:06.power that the last Government gave away, we are returning to the

:49:06. > :49:10.United Kingdom the up the treaty. We have returned a powerful stock

:49:10. > :49:16.recently, we have won exemption from all you have that legislation

:49:16. > :49:21.to make sure from January 2012, Micra enterprises will not face EU

:49:21. > :49:27.regulation at all. Are we going to fight for British interest on

:49:27. > :49:32.Thursday and Friday? Yes, absolutely. Let us be clear. There

:49:32. > :49:36.is an option on a treaty where we have an ability to say yes or no.

:49:36. > :49:41.We will get a price for that. There is the possibility the eurozone

:49:41. > :49:45.members, at 17, will form a treaty of their own. We have some leverage

:49:45. > :49:50.in that situation because they need the use of EU institutions. We

:49:50. > :50:00.should recognise exactly what my Maglev Ridge is and make the most

:50:00. > :50:05.

:50:05. > :50:09.of it. You promised to set out social legislation. You are silent

:50:09. > :50:12.on these issues and the Justice Secretary has said this agenda is

:50:12. > :50:18.not realistic. Does the Prime Minister regret leading his party

:50:18. > :50:24.up the garden path and pushing himself into a choice between

:50:24. > :50:30.ditching his manifesto all be doing a treaty that may be essential to

:50:30. > :50:35.avoid huge damage to the UK? What I regret is that the party opposite

:50:35. > :50:39.gave away so many powers. It is going to take a while to get some

:50:39. > :50:43.of them back. We are making progress. When they were in

:50:43. > :50:48.government, there were repeated increases in the EU budget. We have

:50:48. > :50:52.achieved an EU budget freeze. When he was in government, he gave away

:50:52. > :50:55.the bail-out pallor and we had to pour billions of pounds into other

:50:55. > :51:01.countries. We have that power back. With strong association, standing

:51:01. > :51:05.up for Britain, we can clear up the mess that Labour left us. Over the

:51:05. > :51:09.last decade, there has been an explosion of personal debt levels

:51:09. > :51:16.in this country. We allow young people to leave school without the

:51:16. > :51:20.proper skills to make decisions. Next week, a committee will report

:51:20. > :51:25.on where this can fit in the curriculum. Will the Prime Minister

:51:25. > :51:29.meet with a small group of MPs to ensure young people are more

:51:29. > :51:39.finance and literate in the future? I am very happy to meet with my

:51:39. > :51:44.

:51:44. > :51:50.honourable friend. Financial education is important for our

:51:50. > :51:54.young people and I look forward to seeing the report.

:51:54. > :51:59.The Prime Minister said he wanted to lead the most family-friendly

:51:59. > :52:03.government ever. Is it a disgrace that nearly �19 billion worth of

:52:03. > :52:08.cuts if the Government have announced so far, over 13 billion

:52:08. > :52:13.have fallen on women? What I would say, it was this

:52:13. > :52:17.government that introduced 15 hours of free nursery care for all four

:52:17. > :52:22.year olds, something the Labour Party never managed to do. In spite

:52:23. > :52:28.of the appalling mess we were left, in his Autumn Statement, we put in

:52:28. > :52:38.an extra �380 million to double the number of disadvantaged two roles

:52:38. > :52:45.

:52:45. > :52:50.whose parents will get free nursery care. -- two year olds will stop --.

:52:50. > :52:58.What about rejecting government funding for a council tax freeze

:52:58. > :53:03.next year and charging my hard- pressed constituents 3.5% more?

:53:03. > :53:06.I hope all councils will take up the offer of a council tax freeze

:53:06. > :53:11.because in this year, where people face economic hardship, it is

:53:11. > :53:15.important we help where we can. That is why we cut the petrol tax

:53:15. > :53:22.and why we allow the council tax rates to go ahead. My advice to

:53:22. > :53:26.your constituents is to support bodies that that a council tax

:53:26. > :53:31.freeze. Since the Education Act of 1944,

:53:31. > :53:35.successive governments have supported subsidised travel for

:53:35. > :53:38.students who lived three miles or more from other faiths school of

:53:38. > :53:43.their choice. Some local authorities are beginning to cut

:53:43. > :53:47.back on that support. I do not think any member in his house wants

:53:47. > :53:52.to see that happen. Can the Prime Minister encourage local

:53:52. > :53:58.authorities to embrace the spirit of the 1944 Education Act? -- this

:53:58. > :54:02.House. I think he asks a very important

:54:02. > :54:06.question. I support school choice, parents having the ability to

:54:06. > :54:10.choose between schools and their support for the 8th schools. I will

:54:10. > :54:20.look very carefully at what he says and what local authorities are

:54:20. > :54:26.

:54:26. > :54:31.doing. -- for up faith schools.. In exchange for us supporting the

:54:31. > :54:37.euro countries, we are in crisis. We should be seeking changes in the

:54:37. > :54:44.laws on immigration, employment and fishing rights, in order to support

:54:44. > :54:48.our economy. What I would say to the honourable gentleman, if I said,

:54:48. > :54:55.if they choose a treaty at 27, that treaty requires her our consent and

:54:55. > :55:03.we should therefore think of what other things... David Cameron

:55:03. > :55:08.talking about the 27 members of the eurozone. The more changes they

:55:08. > :55:12.want to make, the greater ability we have to ask for sensible things

:55:12. > :55:17.that makes sense for Britain. I am very keen we exercise the leverage

:55:17. > :55:22.we have to do a good deal for Britain. That is what I will be

:55:22. > :55:26.dealing in Brussels on Thursday and Friday.

:55:26. > :55:32.The Prime Minister promised I will cut the deficit, not the NHS. Why

:55:32. > :55:37.is his government closing the accident and emergency a maternity

:55:37. > :55:43.services at King George Hospital, cutting frontline NHS staff,

:55:43. > :55:50.borrowing 158 billion extra? Should he have said I'll cut the NHS not

:55:50. > :55:55.the deficit? My honourable friend is wrong. The deficit is coming

:55:55. > :56:00.down and NHS spending is going up. I know his own health spokesperson

:56:00. > :56:04.says is irresponsible to increase spending on the NHS. We do not be

:56:04. > :56:08.it is irresponsible, we think it is the right thing to do. The Health

:56:08. > :56:12.Secretary has set out the criteria for all local changes, including in

:56:12. > :56:15.his constituency. There has to be problem -- proper public engagement.

:56:15. > :56:21.There has to be support from GP commissioners and proper support

:56:21. > :56:25.for a patient choice. The Prime Minister has taken a strong

:56:25. > :56:30.interest in the incredible work of the Oxford Parent Infant project in

:56:30. > :56:35.helping families struggling to form a strong attachment with their

:56:35. > :56:38.babies. I started a new sister charity. Would the Prime Minister's

:56:38. > :56:42.interest instant ruling families, we commit to looking again at the

:56:42. > :56:46.incredible work that can be done in early intervention that saves a

:56:46. > :56:50.fortune in the Criminal and Care services later on?

:56:50. > :56:55.I think the honourable lady is entirely right and I know about a

:56:55. > :56:59.project she speaks of. I am delighted she is expanding it. All

:56:59. > :57:05.the evidence shows the more we can do to help children and their

:57:05. > :57:09.parents between the age of his era and two, the absolutely key time,

:57:10. > :57:14.where disadvantaged can set in, that can have a bad impact later in

:57:14. > :57:24.life, a work and the work of members across this House in

:57:24. > :57:26.

:57:26. > :57:34.Pretoria at -- in prioritising that is so important for our country.

:57:34. > :57:44.My constituent runs his own construction company. Cutting VAT

:57:44. > :57:44.

:57:44. > :57:47.does not benefit him because he is a small business. -- does benefit

:57:47. > :57:51.him. The problem is, they have a huge

:57:51. > :57:55.long list of extra spending and extra tax cuts they want and as we

:57:55. > :58:00.have heard today, at Question Time, they opposed every single spending

:58:01. > :58:04.reduction we are making, they opposed every single reform to get

:58:04. > :58:08.better value for money. You can only conclude that spending would

:58:09. > :58:14.go up, that borrowing would rocket, that interest rates would increase

:58:14. > :58:22.and the economy would be left in very dire straits.

:58:22. > :58:25.Why is my honourable friend supporting a policy of fiscal

:58:25. > :58:32.unification for the eurozone states which, if it happens, will

:58:32. > :58:38.undoubtedly lead to the creation of a dangerously undemocratic single

:58:38. > :58:42.government for those countries? The point I would make is this. I

:58:42. > :58:46.do not want Britain to join the euro. I think Britain is better off

:58:46. > :58:51.outside the euro. Those countries that have chosen to join the euro,

:58:51. > :58:54.they have got to make that system work. In order to do that, they

:58:54. > :58:57.don't just need stronger fiscal rules, which I think is clear, they

:58:57. > :59:02.need to have greater competitiveness. That is for them

:59:02. > :59:05.to decide how to go ahead and do those things. What we should do is

:59:06. > :59:15.maintain Britain's position eyes are the Europa and make sure we

:59:15. > :59:20.safeguard our interest at the same time. -- position outside the euro.

:59:20. > :59:24.Service personnel will hear a lot of their cut in terms while serving

:59:24. > :59:28.on the frontline in Afghanistan. What does the Prime Minister think

:59:28. > :59:32.that will do for morale for those who are risking their lives for us?

:59:32. > :59:36.What we have done is double the operational allowance that people

:59:36. > :59:40.in Afghanistan received and they are very brave people and we should

:59:40. > :59:44.be doing right by them. We have doubled that allowance and we have

:59:44. > :59:49.increased the council tax disregard. We have made sure of the Pupil

:59:49. > :59:55.Premium is not just available to children on free school meals but

:59:55. > :59:59.is available to all service children. We will go on defending

:59:59. > :00:06.and promoting our brilliant armed service personnel and their

:00:06. > :00:10.families. The wind farm applications spans

:00:10. > :00:16.three authorities. They have assisted against local plans and

:00:16. > :00:20.rejected it. A planning inspector over rolled them and move forward

:00:20. > :00:25.his decision by three months so it could be made the day before the

:00:25. > :00:34.bill got a cent. The Prime Minister will understand my constituents'

:00:34. > :00:39.anger. -- ascent. Can he looked As a result of the changes we are

:00:39. > :00:42.making, it will not be possible in future to overrule such decisions

:00:42. > :00:47.to meet regional targets. We have now got rid of those regional

:00:47. > :00:52.targets. We are giving more decision-making powers to local

:00:52. > :01:02.bodies. Planning reforms will ensure that the local people and

:01:02. > :01:04.

:01:04. > :01:12.councils decide what people need. The scandal of miss selling in this

:01:12. > :01:16.country has gone a lot worse. The Prime Minister is now rejecting the

:01:16. > :01:19.vote on these latest European changes. Will the Prime Minister

:01:19. > :01:22.give a guarantee to this House that there will be an opportunity for

:01:22. > :01:26.the British people to deliver its verdict on the changes that are

:01:26. > :01:29.happening in Europe? What this Government has given us something

:01:29. > :01:36.that no previous Government has given in this country which is we

:01:36. > :01:40.passed a law that means it -- if ever this Government or any future

:01:40. > :01:50.Government tries to pass powers from Westminster to Brussels, it

:01:50. > :01:53.

:01:53. > :01:56.has to ask the British people in a referendum first. The fact people

:01:56. > :02:05.feel betrayed by the last Government, that cannot happen

:02:05. > :02:09.again. Small and medium-sized enterprises are the engine of the

:02:09. > :02:15.economy. Will the Prime Minister acknowledged that a key factor in

:02:15. > :02:19.achieving growth is to take action in Britain's interest to tackle and

:02:19. > :02:27.reduce the huge regulatory burdens on small companies, so many of

:02:27. > :02:30.which come from Europe? It is an important point. We have to start

:02:30. > :02:34.in our own background and stop the over regulation that has happened

:02:34. > :02:41.in the past. That is why we have the red tape challenge with every

:02:41. > :02:47.rule being put upon the internet. That is why we have the one in, one

:02:47. > :02:50.out rule, that applies to every single Minister. We have just

:02:50. > :02:55.achieved a major breakthrough that micro businesses employing less

:02:55. > :02:59.than 10 people will not be subject to -- European regulation from 2012

:02:59. > :03:04.onwards. That is something that has not happened before in Europe and

:03:04. > :03:14.if you make the arguments for jobs, growth and argument -- enterprise,

:03:14. > :03:14.

:03:14. > :03:21.you can't win them. Women and children will bear the brunt of the

:03:21. > :03:27.Prime Minister's failed economic economy. No wonder he continues to

:03:27. > :03:35.turn off women! Will he accept the Treasury figures that 100,000 more

:03:35. > :03:39.children will be living in poverty as a result of his board -- policy?

:03:39. > :03:43.How on earth does -- does it advantage women and children to

:03:43. > :03:48.pile them up with debt after debt after debt that they then have to

:03:48. > :03:52.pay back? We have been standing here for 33 minutes. All we have

:03:52. > :03:58.heard his proposals for tax reductions, spending increases,

:03:58. > :04:01.reforms, scrapping the changes to public sector pay -- pensions. They

:04:01. > :04:05.would take those women and children that we are concerned about, pile

:04:05. > :04:15.them up with debt and let them live with that burden for the rest of

:04:15. > :04:21.

:04:21. > :04:31.their days. May I hark back a month to 7th

:04:31. > :04:32.

:04:32. > :04:37.November -- to 7th November. He appeared to agree with me. None of

:04:37. > :04:47.the proposals have been acted upon by the European Central Bank. May I

:04:47. > :04:56.now expressed to him my belief that the alternative policy of a fiscal

:04:56. > :05:06.union will, as my honourable friend has already just said, poll was a

:05:06. > :05:13.

:05:13. > :05:23.great threat to the whole of the Can the Germans be persuaded to

:05:23. > :05:26.

:05:26. > :05:36.study the reason for the Boston tea Party because... Because no

:05:36. > :05:43.

:05:43. > :05:48.taxation without representation is the bastion of freedom. As ever,...

:05:48. > :05:53.Order! We have heard the question and we want to hear the Prime

:05:53. > :06:03.Minister's answer. As ever, the Leader of the House speaks with

:06:03. > :06:04.

:06:04. > :06:08.great knowledge. The reason that he and I do not want to... Being told

:06:08. > :06:11.what our deficit and debt and everything else is. That is why we

:06:11. > :06:15.do not want to join. If the countries of the euro-zone want to

:06:15. > :06:18.make the system work, it is clear to me that fiscal rules are one

:06:18. > :06:25.thing that they may need but that will not be enough without proper

:06:25. > :06:30.competitive and less and the full- hearted intervention and support of

:06:30. > :06:38.the institutions of the euro-zone, including the European Central Bank.

:06:38. > :06:42.It is a decision of those countries have to make for themselves.

:06:42. > :06:48.That is Prime Minister's Questions over for another week. A Burridge

:06:48. > :06:57.of questions on the European summit. Most of them came for his -- from

:06:57. > :07:02.his own side. Plenty to discuss back in the studio.

:07:02. > :07:06.And on the subject of our guests, one of them has changed. Byron

:07:06. > :07:14.Davis has joined us. William Gray in hat -- we and Graham has headed

:07:14. > :07:17.off to the Chamber. -- William Graham. When William was sat in the

:07:17. > :07:23.chair, we asked him about how the Prime Minister would deal with some

:07:23. > :07:28.of the Euro-sceptic elements on his benches. He is coming under a bit

:07:28. > :07:34.of pressure from the backbenches to going to this European summit and

:07:34. > :07:38.get something out of it. Absolutely. I think he has got to going to it

:07:38. > :07:43.in a strong position and he has got to stay firm on his heel and

:07:43. > :07:49.hopefully will come out of it with something -- his view. You are

:07:49. > :07:52.heading off into the euro-zone in the next few weeks. I am indeed.

:07:52. > :07:57.You are heading to Germany. In terms of where you stand on Europe,

:07:57. > :08:02.within your party, how would you describe yourself? Generally

:08:02. > :08:09.speaking, I have always been a supporter of the European Union. I

:08:09. > :08:12.have worked for the European Union. I support it, I have worked in

:08:12. > :08:17.countries that are now members of the European Union. I think it is

:08:17. > :08:25.only fair that these people are given support, for example, the

:08:25. > :08:30.former Yugoslavia. They do need support. On that basis, I support

:08:30. > :08:35.it. My only sort of real conflict, as opposed, with the European Union

:08:35. > :08:42.is that some of the work of the commission which is imposed on us

:08:42. > :08:46.without parliamentary reference. Are you pro-Europe? I think I am.

:08:46. > :08:52.We have are some great benefits from Europe and it is the way

:08:52. > :08:56.forward. Sometimes we need to be able to do for ourselves in Great

:08:56. > :09:03.Britain and the UK. But on the whole, we have seen more benefits

:09:03. > :09:06.from Europe than disadvantages. We have to work together. Some of the

:09:06. > :09:10.countries coming into need some help. We have been very grateful to

:09:10. > :09:16.take that help us well. That having been said, I would like to see some

:09:16. > :09:21.powers restored back to the UK. I feel that some of our importance of

:09:21. > :09:25.from rights are being threatened. I would like to see them being

:09:25. > :09:31.restored. There was no mood music to light effect from the Prime

:09:31. > :09:41.Minister. Not at the moment but it is just be a personal feeling that

:09:41. > :09:47.I have. When the father of the House was speaking, there was

:09:47. > :09:53.someone tweeting on his phone. That raises some Bangor in the studio.

:09:53. > :10:00.You're not a fan? -- anger. I am not. You should be paying attention.

:10:00. > :10:07.You cannot do things that once. Certainly not that. You should

:10:07. > :10:13.apply yourself to the question and the debate. I am totally against it.

:10:13. > :10:19.I think it is bad manners to be sitting there openly tweeting.

:10:19. > :10:21.it happen in Cardiff? It does happen. We are trying to stop it.

:10:21. > :10:27.The Presiding Officer has been quite clear that mobile phones

:10:27. > :10:30.should be switched off. We do not going to other meetings and I think

:10:30. > :10:39.it is discourteous to be sitting there will Banini -- openly doing

:10:39. > :10:43.that. It is not to be done. In the olden days, I remember seeing

:10:43. > :10:49.Brynle Williams reading the Farmer's Guardian. That was Brynle

:10:49. > :10:57.Williams! A lot of Assembly Members are seen on their computers during

:10:57. > :11:01.proceedings. That is a fair point. There are some issues that arise

:11:01. > :11:08.during the course of plenary session which you have to respond

:11:08. > :11:14.to. You need to be in contact but as for voluntary sending messages,

:11:14. > :11:19.Twitter, I do not see the need for that at all. We will leave that for

:11:19. > :11:29.now. Tomorrow, in the Commons, it is the opposition day. Plaid Cymru

:11:29. > :11:30.

:11:30. > :11:33.get to choose a subject to debate. Recent demonstrations across the

:11:33. > :11:37.country show that there is a great deal of anger towards the

:11:37. > :11:40.Government and its proposed changes to public sector pensions but those

:11:40. > :11:45.in the private sector are saying they are getting a good deal. This

:11:45. > :11:52.is a debate that continues in Parliament and Howell Williams, the

:11:52. > :11:56.Plaid Cymru MP, joins me to discuss the matter further. The Government

:11:56. > :12:03.says that pensions as they are are not sustainable. Do you agree?

:12:03. > :12:06.Clearly not. There is the money there. That has been shown by the

:12:07. > :12:11.actions to - towards teachers' pensions in 2007. The priorities of

:12:11. > :12:18.his Government lie elsewhere. argument is that pensions as they

:12:18. > :12:21.are and not fair. I thought this Government was all about levelling

:12:21. > :12:26.up. Whenever we talk about education, they complain that

:12:26. > :12:30.standards are being dragged down. What we have is public sector

:12:30. > :12:35.pensions which are reasonable, have been hard fought for and have been

:12:35. > :12:38.paid for and yet the Government want to change the agreement and

:12:38. > :12:47.drag them down to the terrible state of affairs in the private

:12:47. > :12:51.sector. I do not want to go in that direction. Labour's former pensions

:12:51. > :12:57.Minister put out a report, he has this week said that even with these

:12:57. > :13:04.changes, pensions could still be an affordable in the future because

:13:04. > :13:09.the rate of growth is slower than predicted. That is worrying? If it

:13:09. > :13:13.was the case, of course. What he has disregarded is the 710,000

:13:13. > :13:17.people in the public sector going to lose their jobs. That is going

:13:17. > :13:23.to lead to a large saving to the Government in terms of spending. If

:13:23. > :13:28.it was the case that we were dependent in the way that he has

:13:28. > :13:34.said, the Government are going to get a boost by sacking all these

:13:35. > :13:39.people. I think he is just plain wrong. People who are earning less

:13:39. > :13:44.than �15,000 will not be asked to pay increased contributions. Surely

:13:44. > :13:49.they are looking after those on lower incomes. We have tracked some

:13:49. > :13:54.concessions out of the Government. But the fundamental problem with

:13:54. > :14:02.this system still remains. They are demanding that people work for

:14:02. > :14:07.longer, pay more and get less at the end of the day. Do you like the

:14:07. > :14:10.unions worry that people will opt out of paying into a pension pot?

:14:10. > :14:15.You have to have a certain number of pensions in a pension scheme to

:14:15. > :14:18.make it viable and if the terms are so bad, people will pull out and

:14:18. > :14:22.that will affect its viability in the future. I do not think the

:14:22. > :14:28.Government have thought about this. If they have, they do not seem to

:14:28. > :14:34.care. If people opt out, there is even less money in the pot and it

:14:34. > :14:38.will make the pensions and affordable in the future. There is

:14:38. > :14:44.less money in the private sector, are so many people found in the 80s

:14:44. > :14:48.and the 90s. The private sector is not as good as it is made out.

:14:48. > :14:53.People will find it difficult to carry on. What do you think is the

:14:53. > :14:58.answer? Iain Duncan Smith has said that the money is not there. What

:14:58. > :15:02.is the solution? I think this Government needs to re-order its

:15:02. > :15:07.priorities. Like the previous one, they are obsessed with the city of

:15:07. > :15:10.London, obsessed with bailing out the bankers and it is the workers

:15:10. > :15:15.in the public sector that are being made to pay. I think we need to

:15:15. > :15:19.change things. Do you feel people in the public sector need to cut

:15:19. > :15:22.back, including their pensions? Government has already imposed a

:15:22. > :15:26.pay freeze for three years and then we are going to get a 1% increase

:15:26. > :15:36.for the next couple of years. But is actually a pay cut. Public

:15:36. > :15:39.

:15:39. > :15:44.sector workers are contributing We have two guests on different

:15:44. > :15:48.sides of the picket line, if you will, on the sofa. Ann Jones, you

:15:48. > :15:53.were on a picket line. Why were you supporting the strike over

:15:53. > :15:57.pensions? Pensions are a very important part of your work in life.

:15:57. > :16:04.Before it was a politician, I worked in the fire brigade. I was

:16:04. > :16:10.in the union. We have strength in numbers. United we stand, divided

:16:10. > :16:14.we fall. I think I owe it to public sector workers to use my public --

:16:14. > :16:21.my experience to show solidarity. Do you think they are right to

:16:21. > :16:25.strike? A Yes, over pensions. We have seen it job cuts and now the

:16:25. > :16:29.Government is announcing 750,000 public sector workers will lose

:16:29. > :16:33.their jobs. Pensions are so important. It is what you plan for.

:16:33. > :16:39.Public sector pensions, they are not thousands of pounds. They are

:16:39. > :16:44.not gold-plated. Some of them will be on about �3,000. And they will

:16:44. > :16:49.not be affected by the Government's cuts? They will have to pay more.

:16:49. > :16:54.Women will have to pay more into the pension scheme. I am affected

:16:54. > :16:58.with the rise in retirement age and so I am going to have to work

:16:58. > :17:06.longer before I can get my state pension as well. All these things,

:17:06. > :17:12.it is just right so that sometimes workers stand up and challenge

:17:12. > :17:22.government. You came to work last week, and cross the picket line.

:17:22. > :17:36.

:17:36. > :17:43.Why a? I am sad that we did not come to work. For me, I get paid to

:17:43. > :17:48.do a job, I am here to do their job, I cross the picket line and I am

:17:48. > :17:54.pleased that I did. Those people, members indeed, of this Assembly

:17:54. > :18:00.who stood on picket lines should give up a day's salary. Ann Jones?

:18:00. > :18:04.Absolutely. You will not be taking a day's salary for last Wednesday?

:18:04. > :18:10.No. I have put my money into the trade union to assist people who

:18:10. > :18:14.will lose their pay. Are you pleased to hear that? Delighted.

:18:14. > :18:18.The union has supported me throughout my adult life. I owe

:18:18. > :18:23.them quite a lot. I would not be here without the trade union

:18:23. > :18:29.movement. I remember that. We have to have that solidarity. It is

:18:29. > :18:33.about those on minimum wage, the cleaners and other people like that.

:18:34. > :18:39.They feel so strongly about it. What difference will it make?

:18:39. > :18:43.Government said the strike was a damp squib. That is the Prime

:18:43. > :18:53.Minister being stupid. Over 2 million people on strike, the chaos

:18:53. > :18:57.that was called in -- there was causing chaos -- Inkatha of. -- in

:18:57. > :19:03.Cardiff. We need to pay people a good pension at the end of their

:19:03. > :19:10.public sector job. I get cross when people who have had good pensions

:19:10. > :19:14.want to say you have to make a tough decision. Do you think the

:19:14. > :19:18.changes proposed by the Government on pensions are inevitable? They

:19:18. > :19:23.are. If the Labour Party had been in power, they would have to face

:19:23. > :19:30.it, too. It is a fact of life. It has been said many times but it has

:19:30. > :19:34.become a cliche. We cannot go on as we are. We will be back with you

:19:34. > :19:38.before the end of the programme. Already on am.pm, we have heard

:19:38. > :19:44.from the leading voices in Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Conservatives.

:19:44. > :19:48.Who has not got for us next? I have got that leader of the Welsh

:19:48. > :19:52.Liberal Democrats, Kirsty Williams. Let us talk about the Budget. Your

:19:52. > :19:57.party made the decision to help the Government out and get the budget

:19:57. > :20:01.through. Why did you do that? were very clear that in these

:20:01. > :20:06.difficult times, this institution needed to agree a budget and in

:20:06. > :20:10.doing so we have been able to secure additional funding for our

:20:10. > :20:14.poorest school children from next year. Every child that is on free

:20:14. > :20:17.school meals will have additional resources in their school to help

:20:17. > :20:21.them reach their potential. Those children often do not get the

:20:21. > :20:28.education qualifications they need to provide for themselves and their

:20:28. > :20:35.future families. We are taking steps to address that. Let us look

:20:36. > :20:40.at schools. It is �450 per pupil for over 70,000 pupils. Will that

:20:40. > :20:44.money goes straight to the school? Yes. It will not go via local

:20:44. > :20:48.authorities. They will go from the Government here to those schools to

:20:48. > :20:51.allow her teachers and classroom teachers to decide how best to

:20:51. > :20:55.spend that money and support to those children. We know those

:20:56. > :21:00.children can do better in school but we need to give them help. We

:21:00. > :21:04.need to give the school resources. Is this a prelude to some kind of

:21:04. > :21:12.formal coalition between your party and Labour? He is very need for

:21:12. > :21:16.that now? -- is there any need? Part of the deal we were able to

:21:16. > :21:21.agree between the Liberal Democrats and the Government is we would have

:21:21. > :21:25.a say in the substantial amount of money, almost �260 million, that

:21:25. > :21:30.was given to Wales in the Autumn Statement from Westminster. We will

:21:30. > :21:33.have a say in how that is spent. We made it clear after the May

:21:34. > :21:38.elections we would work with the Government here to achieve good

:21:38. > :21:42.things for the Welsh economy and for public services. We will be

:21:42. > :21:46.using our influence and ideas in how to spend that money. That has

:21:46. > :21:51.got to be positive rather than politicians arguing. I wonder

:21:51. > :21:55.whether, given the way the world works, whether there is an informal

:21:55. > :21:59.agreement to move forward towards the next election in this way,

:21:59. > :22:03.where have all things stay the same, you would continue to support

:22:03. > :22:08.budgets in the future? This is a deal for this year's budget. We are

:22:08. > :22:12.proud to have been able to achieve what we have done. For next year's

:22:12. > :22:18.budget, we will have something different. Be in these difficult

:22:18. > :22:22.times, political parties work together in a mature way, that is

:22:22. > :22:27.important. We have done that this year and we are committed to doing

:22:27. > :22:35.that next year. But, no, this is not a coalition. We are getting his

:22:35. > :22:42.Budget through and achieving one of our manifesto commitments. That is

:22:42. > :22:47.your primary objective. There is a political element to this, too.

:22:47. > :22:51.Does it help you to be doing a deal with Labour as a party here in

:22:51. > :22:56.Wales, showing there is a bit of distance between yourselves and the

:22:56. > :23:00.coalition government at Westminster? It is not about that

:23:00. > :23:05.at all. It is about providing some stability here in Wales at a

:23:05. > :23:09.difficult economic time for the country. I do not think any citizen

:23:09. > :23:15.would have rewarded political parties who created a budget crisis

:23:15. > :23:19.here. It is about achieving good things for our school children. It

:23:19. > :23:24.is not about positioning or Messaging, it is about the Liberal

:23:24. > :23:29.Democrats being able to use that tools we have here to achieve our

:23:29. > :23:33.manifesto commitment. But you have council elections coming up next

:23:34. > :23:38.year. It will be easier going into those elections being able to say,

:23:38. > :23:45.look at what we are doing for local schools? It is helpful politically,

:23:45. > :23:50.too. Yes. I am very proud of the fact our activists will be able to

:23:50. > :23:54.point to the fact, despite having a small group here if in the Assembly,

:23:54. > :23:59.they had and its -- they had an influence on decision-making and

:23:59. > :24:03.achieved a very important policy. It is not just about the schools,

:24:03. > :24:08.is about increasing the number of apprenticeships and people who are

:24:08. > :24:13.losing their jobs, giving them skills to get them back into the

:24:13. > :24:19.workplace. But yes, these are important elections. I am proud of

:24:19. > :24:23.us and the services we are delivering. What is the great

:24:23. > :24:29.lesson of this year been for you and what are your great hopes for

:24:29. > :24:36.the next year? I do not know about lessons. It has been a very

:24:36. > :24:41.challenging and busy year in Welsh politics. My hopes for next year

:24:41. > :24:45.I'll we are able to continue put forward positive ideas, tackle the

:24:45. > :24:53.problems of a weak economy, schools that have been underfunded and an

:24:53. > :24:58.NHS that is costing us more but delivering less for patients.

:24:58. > :25:04.that come back to bite you? The fact that the Tories will point to

:25:04. > :25:08.that? We already spend more on the NHS in Wales and the results are

:25:08. > :25:17.worse. We need to make sure we are spending well. Chucking more money

:25:17. > :25:22.at it will not solve the problem. Thank you.

:25:22. > :25:26.We will turn to my mind guests on the sofa. A brief response to

:25:27. > :25:31.Kirsty Williams. What do you make of it? I am disappointed that they

:25:31. > :25:37.supported them. We realised something has to give. We were

:25:37. > :25:41.looking to support -- looking for their support. I was asking people

:25:42. > :25:47.what their main concerns were if in the build up to the election and

:25:47. > :25:51.health always came up on top. We wanted to support it. If you listen

:25:51. > :26:00.to the Conservatives, they are taking hundreds of millions of

:26:00. > :26:07.pounds out of their health budget. We are not. Conservatives are

:26:07. > :26:11.taking 20% out of the her education budget. I think the deal we have

:26:11. > :26:16.done with the Liberal Democrats is to put money into those

:26:16. > :26:20.disadvantaged communities all those pupils in those communities. Will

:26:20. > :26:27.you be happy for them to take credit for that? Will you be

:26:27. > :26:31.pitting them straight? I will put them straight in my constituency!

:26:31. > :26:36.People want to see a budget settled. People want to know they have got

:26:36. > :26:40.their services. The Tories say they are friends of the Health Service,

:26:40. > :26:45.but they are not. They say they want to put more money in many or

:26:45. > :26:49.government. Yes, at the cost of education. You have to balance it

:26:49. > :26:56.out. If you are leaving schools without money, we will miss a

:26:56. > :27:05.generation of children. By Dan see from past experience -- I can see,

:27:05. > :27:15.a generation of children that we are now picking the tab up for. Is

:27:15. > :27:15.

:27:15. > :27:20.important we keep the education budget. We must look to health, too.

:27:20. > :27:25.We have to work on priorities, we have to work on what people want.

:27:25. > :27:30.There is a limit to what we can spend. Yes, maybe there would have

:27:30. > :27:36.been some cutbacks in education... 20%. But we would have invested in

:27:36. > :27:46.the Health Service. Let us leave the Budget there. In a few moments,

:27:46. > :27:56.this programme finishes. You have a month off. I think that is an

:27:56. > :27:57.

:27:57. > :28:02.unfair comment! Is often said, since I have been here, but I say,

:28:02. > :28:12.it is just the Senedd is not meeting. We are still doing things

:28:12. > :28:13.

:28:13. > :28:18.in the constituencies. It is quite busy. -- of the Senedd.. Of course,

:28:18. > :28:25.you also have a home life. There is plenty to do. Ann Jones, you will

:28:25. > :28:29.be working hard. Yes. Anything we do in constituencies, I am just

:28:29. > :28:34.going to say, I will have a good Christmas but I hope everyone else

:28:34. > :28:42.will, too. Thank you. That is it from us. I have a mince pie here