08/02/2012

:00:21. > :00:25.Good morning and welcome to am.pm. We have got two Assembly Members

:00:25. > :00:29.here on the sofa we will take you to Westminster to hear from the

:00:29. > :00:32.Prime Minister. We will be at Prime Minister's Questions for the weekly

:00:32. > :00:35.joust between David Cameron and Ed Miliband and also be hearing from

:00:35. > :00:38.his brother, David. In the Assembly, opposition parties are calling on

:00:38. > :00:47.the Welsh Government to complete and proper scrutiny the race

:00:47. > :00:56.relations organisation AWEMA. I'll be talking about the latest plan to

:00:56. > :00:59.Joining me throughout today's programme are two Assembly Members.

:00:59. > :01:06.Labour's Mike Hedges, an ampm sofa newcomer, and Plaid Cymru's Bethan

:01:06. > :01:09.Jenkins. We will begin with one of our headline stories. The Welsh

:01:09. > :01:13.Government was warned to stop funding the race equality body

:01:13. > :01:16.AWEMA as far back as 2004. The All Wales Ethnic Minority Association

:01:16. > :01:21.has received �8.4 million in public funding and is now under

:01:21. > :01:24.investigation for alleged financial wrongdoing. A Welsh Government

:01:24. > :01:27.report into those allegations is due tomorrow but this week it was

:01:27. > :01:34.emerged another report commissioned nine years ago recommended new

:01:34. > :01:38.funding to AWEMA should cease. That did not happen and the old report

:01:38. > :01:41.seemed to have vanished. Yesterday, the First Minister told Assembly

:01:41. > :01:51.Members it was unclear whether it had ever been published but it was

:01:51. > :01:57.and Mark Hannaby got his hands on a The allegations of race equality

:01:57. > :02:01.charity, Nan -- AWEMA and Naz Malik at dominating Welsh politics.

:02:01. > :02:08.Bullying is under investigation. Assembly Members want to know what

:02:08. > :02:11.happened when. They've asked to see a report into AWEMA's projects.

:02:11. > :02:16.Yesterday afternoon, the First Minister said it was not clear what

:02:16. > :02:21.had become of the report. He it is not clear when that report has been

:02:21. > :02:28.published on Oct. Nine years ago when the report was first published

:02:28. > :02:33.-- Commission, it wasn't clear if it was made public. As Carwyn Jones

:02:33. > :02:41.was speaking, the report emerged. The Liberal Democrats had

:02:41. > :02:44.discovered it. It is a report into AWEMA's projects. Those have

:02:44. > :02:48.emerged far more recently. The report did warn that no more money

:02:48. > :02:54.should be given to AWEMA and Taylor's performance improved. It

:02:54. > :02:58.also made clear that the Assembly must apply more at scrutiny to the

:02:58. > :03:04.charity. The spite a recommendation from an independent person, the

:03:04. > :03:07.government gave �8 million to this organisation. The question is, why

:03:08. > :03:14.did the government go to the trouble of commissioning a report

:03:14. > :03:20.only to ignore it soundings? last government said it is

:03:20. > :03:23.investigating AWEMA. The last government will expect to be

:03:23. > :03:28.questioned on his findings. There will be questions on labour's links

:03:28. > :03:32.with Naz Malik, a party activist. Some will want to know why a

:03:32. > :03:40.charity so strongly criticised in 2004 were still in receipt of

:03:40. > :03:44.public funds so many years later. Let's see what our best think of

:03:44. > :03:48.that. Welcome to the programme. Mark Hannaby was commenting on this

:03:48. > :03:53.report they came to light yesterday. It seems to suggest no money should

:03:53. > :03:58.be given to an AWEMA. The First Minister did not know of the

:03:58. > :04:06.reports were still in existence. am pleased it is in the public

:04:06. > :04:09.domain. The report shown tomorrow is what his current. We want to

:04:09. > :04:12.know what is happening now. The report is out tomorrow and it will

:04:13. > :04:19.be important to see it and scrutinise it and see exactly what

:04:19. > :04:23.has gone wrong. We make it premature by prejudging it today.

:04:23. > :04:28.There was some point raised in the report they came out yesterday

:04:28. > :04:33.suggesting no money should be given to AWEMA until they sort themselves

:04:33. > :04:39.out. �8 million has been given. Does that raise the alarm bells?

:04:39. > :04:43.does. So many organisations receive money from the government a we need

:04:43. > :04:50.to have checks and balances in place to make sure these kind of

:04:50. > :04:55.allegations don't happen. I have had sight of letters from the Chair

:04:55. > :05:00.who wrote in 2007 to raise concerns. There have been a series of

:05:00. > :05:04.allegations and why has there was government taken so long to act?

:05:04. > :05:09.You are very Swansea Assembly Member, you have led the council in

:05:09. > :05:16.Swansea, AWEMA is based in Swansea. What you make of the recent

:05:16. > :05:20.headlines that it has been making? All these criticisms, they are

:05:20. > :05:27.being made public now. We should have been discussing this 12 months

:05:27. > :05:34.ago. We were discussing it eight years ago, I think. I have not been

:05:34. > :05:41.contacted about it until very close to now. It is one of those things

:05:41. > :05:45.that people and not able to go back to talk about it. Nobody has asked

:05:45. > :05:49.the question in the Assembly about the 2004 report until today. That

:05:49. > :05:53.does not mean that everything has been going on find. That is why

:05:53. > :06:03.we're waiting for the report tomorrow and I am pleased to come

:06:03. > :06:04.

:06:04. > :06:08.to talk to you about it. Do you think the government has dealt with

:06:09. > :06:14.this as expeditiously as it could have done? I don't want to

:06:14. > :06:20.scaremonger but the Welsh Government has had these reports.

:06:20. > :06:24.In 2007 there was another one. The alarm bells were ringing. It is not

:06:24. > :06:29.for... It is for the government is say they could put their money in

:06:29. > :06:39.the right places. AWEMA phones smaller organisations, many in the

:06:39. > :06:41.

:06:41. > :06:44.Swansea area. -- funds. The concept of what AWEMA does his noble that

:06:44. > :06:47.is something we should all acknowledge but if they are going

:06:47. > :06:55.to be alleging to Use money in these ways or there are allegations

:06:55. > :07:01.of bullying, they need to be taken seriously. AWEMA was to be found

:07:01. > :07:06.guilty of rape as much of anything a new organisation would have to be

:07:06. > :07:15.-- Guild see all these, any organisation would have to beat

:07:15. > :07:22.established. We will leave it there for now. We'll come back to late in

:07:22. > :07:27.the programme. There is a full day in the Senedd today.

:07:27. > :07:34.On that AWEMA story, the leader of the Welsh Conservatives has tabled

:07:34. > :07:38.a special question on that hole developing issue. If that has been

:07:38. > :07:43.accepted it will be something to lookout for. When we come to that

:07:43. > :07:51.agenda we have got questions to ministers at the beginning, today

:07:51. > :07:57.they are question to the Education Minister. There is a motion to

:07:57. > :08:00.appoint auditors to the accounts of the Auditor General for Wales.

:08:00. > :08:04.Emotion in the name of Mohammad Ashgar, the Conservative Assembly

:08:04. > :08:09.Member, eight motion to table a Bill on enterprise that he was to

:08:09. > :08:12.bring forward. After that we move to the substantive debates of the

:08:12. > :08:20.afternoon and they should be interesting the stock that is a

:08:20. > :08:24.debate on stroke reduction. They published a report in December

:08:24. > :08:29.which said that stroke reduction in Wales was and what is should be an

:08:29. > :08:32.quite willingly the reason for that was there is a failure to take

:08:32. > :08:36.responsibility at different levels of the health service for

:08:36. > :08:43.particular problems. There is something called atrial

:08:43. > :08:49.fibrillation which is an irregular heart rate. That can lead to a very

:08:49. > :08:53.fast heart rate, it clear factor in strokes. The committee's report

:08:53. > :08:59.said as primary care are there was uncertainty at who was responsible

:08:59. > :09:05.for the detection and treatment of that. A very interesting debate in

:09:06. > :09:10.prospect there. On a similar matter, there is a health debate tabled by

:09:11. > :09:15.the Conservatives. They want to look at the couple of errors that

:09:15. > :09:20.might be areas of government policy that have not been delivered on.

:09:20. > :09:25.Animal health checks for the but -- over 50s and the idea that the

:09:25. > :09:31.Welsh Government wants to bring forward longer opening hours for

:09:31. > :09:34.GPs. They are saying these things have been promised but nothing has

:09:34. > :09:39.been delivered and they want to know why. At the end of the

:09:39. > :09:44.afternoon we have a short debate, another interesting one. That is

:09:44. > :09:48.from Dewi Morgan who is the Labour Assembly Member for Cardiff North.

:09:48. > :09:54.-- Julie Morgan. It is about dangerous Dogs. What can be done to

:09:54. > :09:58.change the law in Wales. She wants owners to be more responsible about

:09:58. > :10:05.what dogs do. I hope to speak to her about her debate a little later

:10:05. > :10:12.on. When I talk about dangerous Dogs with people be raised concerns

:10:12. > :10:16.about dangerous owners. As usual you confine their the information

:10:16. > :10:25.11 need about what is happening in the National Assembly on our

:10:25. > :10:34.Democracy Live coverage. It is going to be busy day at Westminster.

:10:34. > :10:44.Our correspondent Tomos Livingstone can tell us more. The controversial

:10:44. > :10:47.

:10:47. > :10:50.NHS bill is in the Lords today. Today we hear the Health Secretary

:10:51. > :10:58.has the Prime Minister's support. have seen Andrew Lansley this

:10:58. > :11:02.morning and he is alive and well I was not wearing a flak jacket. The

:11:02. > :11:05.fact that he picked up the newspaper and saw these quotes from

:11:05. > :11:11.Downing Street, the Health Secretary should have been taken

:11:11. > :11:16.out and shot. The stakes have got very high in this political row

:11:16. > :11:23.over the health bill. The other is a government is feeling there is

:11:23. > :11:28.nothing wrong with a policy but the way it has been communicated, the

:11:28. > :11:31.way Andrew Lansley has been explaining it, has been a disaster.

:11:31. > :11:35.The Health Bill has back in the Lords today. It is going through

:11:35. > :11:38.some of the amendments the Government has tabled. There is an

:11:38. > :11:44.impasse between the House of Lords and the House of Commons getting

:11:44. > :11:49.his bill through. I am sure it will, Pym Prime Minister's Questions. The

:11:49. > :11:54.stakes are so high on this because the Labour Party feel if they can

:11:54. > :11:59.get anything that looks like a U- turn from the government it will

:11:59. > :12:02.give Ed Miliband a huge amount of momentum. The Bill itself is

:12:02. > :12:08.England only and you might say should we really worry about what

:12:08. > :12:15.is happening to the English NHS? There are a couple of reasons why

:12:15. > :12:20.perhaps we should wary in Wales. A lot of people who live in border

:12:20. > :12:24.areas in Wales to travel to England to access parts of the NHS. We

:12:24. > :12:27.should take an interest in what is happening. The second reason is it

:12:27. > :12:31.has become this battle of wills between Labour on the one hand and

:12:31. > :12:36.the Conservatives on the other and the question for the Conservatives

:12:36. > :12:39.is are they willing to push through with what looks end increasingly

:12:39. > :12:47.unpopular health bill as the price of getting through what they have

:12:47. > :12:51.considered to be the necessary reforms? Are they willing to

:12:51. > :12:56.detoxified the brand they have worked so hard to detoxified in

:12:56. > :13:04.order to get through this health bill? The stakes are getting higher

:13:04. > :13:09.even if Andrew Lansley is off death row's. For now at least. We speak

:13:09. > :13:13.about bankers bonuses nearly every week. This morning we heard from

:13:13. > :13:18.the Chief Executive of the Royal Bank of Scotland. His first

:13:18. > :13:23.interview since he agreed not to take his annual bonus. He told to

:13:23. > :13:27.the BBC this morning has said he understood the controversy around

:13:27. > :13:33.the amount he gets paid and he did consider resigning but he is still

:13:33. > :13:38.in post. He decided not to do that. He argued that the word he is doing

:13:38. > :13:43.is Light diffusing a time bomb. This is something the nation should

:13:43. > :13:49.be grateful for. An indication that he will be deserving of some sort

:13:49. > :13:53.of bonus in future. Any issue that may come up in Prime Minister's

:13:53. > :13:59.Questions from the backbenches rather than the front benches.

:13:59. > :14:05.Downing Street has been happy, trigger-happy, on theirs. They are

:14:05. > :14:11.quite happy to strip Fred Goodwin of his knighthood and to allow this

:14:11. > :14:15.pressure to build op. Some Conservative MPs are worried this

:14:15. > :14:21.is going too far and George Osborne, the Chancellor, giving his speech

:14:21. > :14:25.last night saying this is an anti- business culture in Britain. Some

:14:25. > :14:29.Tory MPs say that is good enough but they want action to back that

:14:30. > :14:34.up and are looking to the budget next week -- next month for some

:14:34. > :14:37.pro-business and to it as they should measures. We talk of hard

:14:37. > :14:41.times and we mentioned Charles Dickens on yesterday's programme

:14:41. > :14:48.and we hear the Cabinet have received some of the great man's

:14:48. > :14:54.works as gifts. Jeremy Hunt has bought his colleagues a Charles

:14:54. > :14:58.Dickens's book to mark the anniversary. Cheryl Gillan got a

:14:58. > :15:04.copy of Pickwick Papers, the Prime Minister got a copy of hard times.

:15:04. > :15:12.A bit are scratching at heads at the various choices. Jeremy Hunt

:15:13. > :15:22.matched the pockets to it the recipient. -- the box. Some say

:15:23. > :15:22.

:15:23. > :15:28.that Cheryl Gillan should have had Don't forget that we would like to

:15:28. > :15:38.hear from you as well. You can get in touch with us on any of the

:15:38. > :15:44.

:15:44. > :15:46.subjects we are talking about on Well, we will be hearing Ed

:15:46. > :15:52.Miliband at Prime Minister's Questions shortly, but first of all,

:15:52. > :15:56.we can hear from his brother. David Miliband was in Cardiff yesterday.

:15:56. > :15:58.He is chairing the UK on behalf of Labour, and is also the chair of

:15:58. > :16:02.the Commission on youth unemployment which has published a

:16:02. > :16:06.report this week. He has described the problem of youth unemployment

:16:06. > :16:12.in Wales as a scarf. I caught up with him on the streets of Cardiff

:16:12. > :16:15.and asked him what he meant by that -- a scar. Everyone knows that when

:16:15. > :16:20.someone is unemployed at a young age for a year or two, they are

:16:20. > :16:24.much less likely to get into work later on in life. They are going to

:16:24. > :16:29.lose time at work and his earnings, which is why it is very important

:16:30. > :16:32.that we persuade the Government to take more measures, and also that

:16:32. > :16:35.we recognise what the Welsh Assembly Government are trying to

:16:35. > :16:38.do, which is to make a difference with the powers they have got

:16:38. > :16:42.locally. Youth unemployment is something that we have known in the

:16:42. > :16:45.past, we made huge strides to drive levels of youth unemployment down,

:16:45. > :16:49.but since the recession they have been going up, and that is

:16:49. > :16:55.dangerous for the country. Youth unemployment has been going up

:16:55. > :17:00.since 2004 when there was a Labour government in the UK and here in

:17:00. > :17:03.Wales. The rate is higher here than in any other part of the UK. Use

:17:03. > :17:06.the Assembly Government is trying to bring them down, but it seems

:17:06. > :17:13.they had just been going up under Labour's watch. The current

:17:13. > :17:19.government did not invent the problem of youth unemployment.

:17:19. > :17:24.Since the recession, the numbers have jumped. A 200% increase in

:17:24. > :17:28.parts of Wales. There is a responsibility for the central

:17:28. > :17:32.government in London. They are strangling the UK economy. Growth

:17:32. > :17:36.rates have been completely setback. The recovery that Alistair Darling

:17:36. > :17:40.has set in place has been reversed. How weather, we do recognise that

:17:40. > :17:44.in Wales, the Assembly Government has made a priority. Carwyn Jones

:17:44. > :17:47.is trying to get to the root of the problem. It is not a matter of

:17:47. > :17:52.saying there were no problems under a Labour government. There was a

:17:52. > :17:55.core problem, but that has now been compounded by the Conservative

:17:55. > :18:01.Government's economic strategy. Turning to the Labour Party, you

:18:01. > :18:04.have had some thoughts about the future of the party recently. What

:18:04. > :18:09.lessons do you think that the Labour Party at UK level could take

:18:09. > :18:12.from the Labour Party here in Wales, which of course is in government?

:18:12. > :18:18.think the Welsh Labour Party is a good example of how you can come

:18:18. > :18:22.back from taking some pits. Labour took some hits in 2007, but it made

:18:22. > :18:27.a determined effort to renew itself, to rethink, and in 2011, it came

:18:28. > :18:32.back with strong results. Now, we are seeing the fruits of that.

:18:32. > :18:35.Innovative policies on jobs, housing, crime, they are being

:18:35. > :18:38.pursued by the Welsh Assembly Government. We should take heart

:18:38. > :18:41.that for me to rethink and apply our values in new ways it will have

:18:41. > :18:46.a resonance with the electorate. There is a good lesson in Wales for

:18:46. > :18:49.the rest of Britain. There are differences between the party here

:18:49. > :18:54.and UK level. Carwyn Jones says he does not want to see public sector

:18:54. > :18:59.pay frozen, which is something that your brother and Ed Balls have said

:18:59. > :19:02.they would support at UK level. Do think that disagreement is healthy?

:19:02. > :19:06.It is healthy that devolution is what it says on the 10th. What it

:19:06. > :19:10.says on the tin is that decisions that can be taken locally should be

:19:11. > :19:13.taken locally. It is healthy that weak suit the different approaches

:19:13. > :19:18.to different parts of the country, and I don't think we should have

:19:18. > :19:21.any fear of that atoll. Devolution has been good for Wales and of good

:19:21. > :19:26.for Britain. You stood for the Labour leadership, you did not win,

:19:26. > :19:29.your brother one. But is the leadership something that you have

:19:29. > :19:33.parked now, or could you see yourself wanting to be leader in

:19:33. > :19:37.the future? The only election I care about is the next general

:19:37. > :19:42.election. That is an election that is going to be critical for the

:19:42. > :19:46.future of Britain. I once Ed Miliband to become prime minister,

:19:46. > :19:52.because I think he will be good for the country. I think the message

:19:52. > :19:56.that I am begging him to the streets here is let's get stuck

:19:56. > :19:59.game at grassroots level. We do have power at the Welsh Assembly

:19:59. > :20:03.Government. We are seeking power in local councils in Wales, and it

:20:03. > :20:08.will be the work that we do locally that develops ideas we can then

:20:08. > :20:14.implement on a national level. discussed yacht seven-point plan,

:20:14. > :20:18.what did he say? I stay in touch with him because he is my brother,

:20:18. > :20:23.and his ideas reflect some of that rethinking that he talks about. It

:20:23. > :20:27.is important that we learn and reflect on our defeat at UK level.

:20:27. > :20:30.I spend the last 18 months on grassroots campaign and I have

:20:30. > :20:33.learnt a lot about how we can reconnect with voters and I have

:20:33. > :20:37.tried to set some of those that in my article in the New Statesman's.

:20:37. > :20:42.We do need that restless spirit of rethinking when we lose, and we did

:20:42. > :20:47.lose and we need to put that right. The other thing you have been doing

:20:47. > :20:50.is being involved with Sunderland Football Club. Martin O'Neill has

:20:50. > :20:54.turn them around. Do you have any tips for your brother who is

:20:54. > :21:02.flagging in the polls? He is winning some important arguments

:21:02. > :21:08.himself. I think that Martin has really given the club a sense of

:21:08. > :21:12.mission, and I think that that is the football example. I always wary

:21:12. > :21:15.- football is not the same as politics. Politics is in a world of

:21:15. > :21:18.its own. That was David Miliband. Let's chat

:21:18. > :21:22.with a guess about the main theme of that interview, which was the

:21:22. > :21:27.levels of youth unemployment in Wales. David Miliband described it

:21:27. > :21:30.as a scar on the country. Do you agree? I wish she had seen it as a

:21:30. > :21:32.scar on the country when he was in government. It is hypocritical of

:21:32. > :21:34.government. It is hypocritical of them now to be saying that there

:21:34. > :21:38.are problems of youth and employment when it has been

:21:38. > :21:42.happening for the last 10 years at least. I think he did accept that

:21:42. > :21:47.Labour have not properly got to grips with the problem, didn't he?

:21:47. > :21:51.You can say anything in opposition. From Plaid's point of view, we

:21:51. > :21:56.would like to have more of the financial levers here in Wales so

:21:56. > :22:04.we can alleviate some of these problems. Young people in Wales are

:22:04. > :22:04.one of the highest propensity of We need to change that and put more

:22:05. > :22:08.investment into capital projects, more investment into

:22:08. > :22:14.apprenticeships, so that young people can get of the dependency

:22:14. > :22:22.system and get back into work. That is increasingly impossible. Bethan

:22:22. > :22:26.Jenkins accepts that the levers are not here in Wales. It can't be the

:22:26. > :22:33.Labour's world Government's fault then, can it? I agree with her when

:22:33. > :22:38.she says you can say anything in opposition. Firstly, we saw in the

:22:38. > :22:42.1980s when I was a young man watching the Conservative Club and

:22:42. > :22:46.then in Wales, and now we see them doing the same thing again. We

:22:46. > :22:52.should be thankful for devolution, and thankful that we have got a

:22:52. > :22:57.Welsh Labour government in power. 4,000 jobs have been produced

:22:58. > :23:01.across Wales for youngsters aged 16 to 24 and this gives them an

:23:01. > :23:07.opportunity they would not have got if they were in England. When will

:23:07. > :23:12.those jobs be filled? understanding is from April onwards.

:23:12. > :23:17.Thirdly, what Labour is trying to do to promote apprenticeships -

:23:17. > :23:21.again, back in the 80s, apprenticeships disappeared. I grew

:23:21. > :23:28.up in an age where people had a choice at 16 either to do an

:23:28. > :23:31.apprenticeship or to stay on in school. Those opportunities don't

:23:31. > :23:36.exist at the level they did then, but we need to get more

:23:36. > :23:43.apprenticeships, if only because the number of skilled workers is

:23:43. > :23:48.declining. We will leave it there for now. We will join you again

:23:48. > :23:51.before Prime Minister's Questions. Still to come, we will go live to

:23:51. > :23:56.the House of Commons for questions to David Cameron. That is at midday,

:23:56. > :24:00.of course. Time to go back to Mark where a backbencher is calling for

:24:00. > :24:04.the Welsh government to introduce a new law in a bid to crack down on

:24:04. > :24:09.dangerous dogs and their owners. Some dangers, some not, I'm sure.

:24:09. > :24:15.That's right, it is a severe problem. I am joined now by Julie

:24:15. > :24:18.Morgan, the AM for Cardiff North. You are concerned about this and

:24:18. > :24:23.you are bringing forward a debate today. Is it a growing problem in

:24:23. > :24:27.Wales, dangerous dogs attacking people? Yes, it does seem to be. I

:24:27. > :24:31.found out that there are three attacks every week. Those are the

:24:32. > :24:35.reported attacks. A lot of this does not go reported. It does seem

:24:35. > :24:40.to be a growing problem, and I think we have got to tackle it.

:24:40. > :24:46.particular, your attention was grabbed by an awful event - one of

:24:46. > :24:50.your own constituents. Yes, last September a child was badly bitten

:24:50. > :24:54.with severe bites to the face. He will have to have treatment for

:24:54. > :24:57.many years. That is what triggered me into thinking I have to look at

:24:57. > :25:00.this issue and see if anything can be done to prevent it happening

:25:00. > :25:04.again. Why do you feel that something needs to change with the

:25:05. > :25:10.law? People would assume, perhaps wrongly, that laws are already in

:25:10. > :25:14.place to deal with these incidents? The danger stocks Act 1991 is

:25:14. > :25:19.generally considered a discredited bit of registration -- dangerous

:25:19. > :25:23.Dogs Act. It was done in a rush as a reaction took an awful incident,

:25:23. > :25:29.but what has happened is that there are more dog bites happening, more

:25:29. > :25:33.dogs out of control, and we really want to shift the emphasis. The Act

:25:33. > :25:36.concentrated on the breed of dog, whereas the important thing is to

:25:36. > :25:41.try to shift the emphasis to the owners of the docks, and to

:25:41. > :25:45.encourage responsible ownership. We know how important animals are to

:25:45. > :25:49.so many people, and there are so many responsible owners. But there

:25:49. > :25:52.are irresponsible owners, too, and we need to move the law so that we

:25:52. > :25:55.are looking at before these awful incidents happen. I want to see

:25:55. > :26:01.more preventative work. particular, there are three things

:26:01. > :26:05.you are suggesting. Could you run through those? I would like to see

:26:05. > :26:08.compulsory microchip think of all dogs. That is something that is

:26:08. > :26:13.within the assembly's power. I know the minister is thinking about it,

:26:13. > :26:16.but that would be a huge step forward. If all dogs had microchips

:26:16. > :26:21.it would be great for responsible dog owners because dogs and their

:26:21. > :26:25.owners could be United if they were lost, and for the non- responsible

:26:26. > :26:30.dog owners they cannot deny responsibility for any incident

:26:30. > :26:34.that may occur. It encourages responsible ownership, that people

:26:34. > :26:41.will ink -- work hard to look after their dog. The other thing I want

:26:41. > :26:45.to happen is more preventative measures. For example, if a dog

:26:45. > :26:49.does start to show aggressive tendencies without hurting anybody,

:26:49. > :26:52.that this can be notified and something can be done about it.

:26:53. > :26:58.That is one of the things that I think has been introduced in

:26:58. > :27:01.Scotland. Control orders? Yes. There is a new Dogs Act that was

:27:01. > :27:04.introduced in Scotland which does take up many of the issues that I

:27:04. > :27:09.want to see, and that is one of them. If you get in there quickly,

:27:09. > :27:14.you can put a certain restriction on a dog. An owner can have to go

:27:14. > :27:18.for training and learn to be responsible with the stock control

:27:18. > :27:23.orders. Dogs could wear muzzles or be taken by lead. All these things

:27:23. > :27:31.could stop these horrendous incidents happening. The other

:27:31. > :27:36.thing I would want to see is a lot more responsible training available,

:27:36. > :27:43.so the docks... It is like a child, you have got to show dogs had to

:27:43. > :27:47.socialise, train them, make them up respond to you. There are courses

:27:47. > :27:51.available to do that for dogs, and I would like all of that written in

:27:51. > :27:55.the Lawson have. I would like us to explore here in Wales with the

:27:55. > :27:58.powers we have got for Animal Welfare, how we could move away

:27:58. > :28:01.from the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 and come to something much more

:28:01. > :28:04.preventative. There is a whole range of things you want to

:28:04. > :28:10.introduce and I am sure this is only the start of the process.

:28:10. > :28:15.Thank you for joining us. We will head off to the House of

:28:15. > :28:19.Commons any minute now. Let's have a quick chat with our guests to see

:28:19. > :28:23.what they expect to come up. We heard from our reporter earlier and

:28:23. > :28:26.he mentioned bonuses and the NHS and I also think the Falklands is

:28:26. > :28:31.in the news. What you think will feature heavily in Prime Minister's

:28:31. > :28:36.Questions? I would be surprised if a health does not come up. It is

:28:36. > :28:42.one of those days where I thank my lucky SARS I live in Wales. Because

:28:42. > :28:46.of the differences in health? What is happening is that they are

:28:46. > :28:51.dismantling what was an excellent National Health Service. Bethan

:28:51. > :28:56.Jenkins, do you think help will dominate? I am sure because it is a

:28:56. > :29:00.political football now. David Miliband said not to mixed football

:29:00. > :29:04.with politics. I don't know if I would want to take his advice very

:29:04. > :29:07.often! I'm sure it issues like Syria will come up as well in terms

:29:08. > :29:17.of the issue with Russia and arms deals, and it will be interesting

:29:18. > :29:19.

:29:19. > :29:24.to look at that. In recent weeks, Ed Miliband seems to have landed

:29:24. > :29:34.some metaphorical blows on the Prime Minister. Would you expect

:29:34. > :29:36.

:29:36. > :29:41.The discussion around a network of rail bonuses as well. It should be

:29:41. > :29:45.for the opposition Party today but David Cameron can perform quite

:29:45. > :29:51.well in a Prime Minister's Questions so we will have to see.

:29:51. > :29:58.Is David or Ed Miliband, which is your favourite? A Ed Miliband is

:29:58. > :30:04.the current leader and I think he is doing eight great job. He has

:30:04. > :30:10.been successful in Prime Minister's Questions. We will head over there.

:30:10. > :30:16.We will have a cup of tea well we watched the goings-on in

:30:16. > :30:24.Westminster. They are finishing off with the

:30:24. > :30:29.Cabinet to office business. -- Cabinet Office business. They have

:30:29. > :30:34.been frozen out of the process. We are determined to open that up and

:30:34. > :30:40.enable more who attended the UK- based you paid an bit successfully.

:30:40. > :30:50.Can I welcome the wise decision by the Minister to fund a bit by eight

:30:50. > :31:13.

:31:13. > :31:16.Neither I nor my friend -- I either I or my friend will fall foul that.

:31:16. > :31:26.Before listing my engagements I'm sure the whole House will wish to

:31:26. > :31:26.

:31:26. > :31:30.join with me in paying tribute to her Majesty the Queen during this

:31:30. > :31:35.absolutely historic week marking the 60th anniversary of her

:31:35. > :31:38.accession to the throne. Her 60 years of remarkable leadership and

:31:38. > :31:43.dedicated public service and an inspiration to us all on Sunday the

:31:43. > :31:46.whole country and the Commonwealth can be immensely proud of. Members

:31:46. > :31:54.will have the opportunity to pay individual trip is during the

:31:54. > :32:01.humble address a debate on 7th March. Ayes will have further such

:32:01. > :32:05.meetings later today. -- I will. am sure the whole House not least

:32:05. > :32:15.myself would wish to join the Prime Minister in his warm tribute to her

:32:15. > :32:18.

:32:18. > :32:20.Majesty. In March last year the Prime Minister said there is no

:32:20. > :32:25.reason for there to be fewer front line police officers. Can the Prime

:32:25. > :32:29.Minister confirm that frontline officer numbers have been cut in 40

:32:29. > :32:37.out of 43 police forces. proportion of officers on the

:32:37. > :32:42.frontline is Op. -- is up. I am sure he will want to join with me

:32:42. > :32:47.in congratulating Boris Johnson on his excellent record on crime in

:32:47. > :32:52.our capital. Total crime is down, violent crime is down on buses and

:32:52. > :32:57.tubes, 11,000 knives and guns have been taken off our streets and

:32:57. > :33:03.there are thousands best like 1,000 more officers on the streets of

:33:03. > :33:12.London. That together with his reminder of the role of the dangers

:33:12. > :33:17.of tweeting, it is a good start to the day. Do you share my

:33:17. > :33:20.disappointment at the overthrow yesterday of the first

:33:21. > :33:24.democratically elected President of the Mall Deaves in a coup d'etat

:33:24. > :33:31.and given our historic links with the island will the government by

:33:31. > :33:35.we have a message do all they can to ensure than no violence resorts

:33:35. > :33:40.and the democratic institutions remain. -- more Deaves. This

:33:40. > :33:44.country does have strong links with the islands and has had a good

:33:44. > :33:48.relationship with the President. We have to be clear, he has resigned

:33:48. > :33:55.and we have a strong interest in the well-being of several thousand

:33:55. > :33:59.British tourists. Our High Commissioner is in the capital now

:33:59. > :34:03.and meeting all the political leaders. We call the new government

:34:03. > :34:07.to demonstrate its respect for all political parties and their members

:34:07. > :34:12.and ensure the constitution is upheld. We advise British tourists

:34:12. > :34:22.to avoid non-essential travel on those using the airport and the

:34:22. > :34:26.tourist resorts should exercise caution.

:34:27. > :34:30.Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to her

:34:30. > :34:35.Majesty the Queen as we celebrate her Diamond Jubilee. Her dedication

:34:35. > :34:39.to the country and to public service is an inspiration and an

:34:39. > :34:44.example to us all. We all look forward to the official celebration

:34:44. > :34:50.later this year. It will enable us to celebrate both are Majesty and

:34:50. > :34:55.our country. Mr Speaker, on the day the Prime Minister completed his

:34:55. > :35:02.NHS listening exercise, he said this, some of the people who work

:35:02. > :35:12.in the NHS were sceptical of our changes. Today we are taking people

:35:12. > :35:13.

:35:13. > :35:22.with us. It is in that spirit of unity that we want to continue. Why

:35:22. > :35:25.does he think he has failed? Today, 95% of the country is

:35:25. > :35:35.covered by general practitioners who won not actually supporting our

:35:35. > :35:39.

:35:39. > :35:43.reforms but implementing them. Just today... Order, order. The House

:35:43. > :35:49.must calm down. Let's hear the answers. They will be plenty of

:35:49. > :35:53.time. Just to they 50 foundation trusts

:35:53. > :35:59.have written to the newspapers in support of our reforms and

:35:59. > :36:01.objecting to what Labour are proposing. The signature at the top

:36:02. > :36:09.of the list which he may not have noticed is one and Campbell, the

:36:09. > :36:14.former Labour MP for Cambridge. She, running the local Foundation Trust,

:36:14. > :36:22.supports the reform. Labour MPs leave this House as that to

:36:22. > :36:27.implement Coalition policy. -- and start to. He doesn't event believe

:36:27. > :36:32.that nonsense. Last Friday the Royal College of General

:36:32. > :36:42.Practitioners said this about his health bill -- it will cause

:36:42. > :36:42.

:36:42. > :36:52.irreparable damage to patient care and jeopardise the NHS. It is nice

:36:52. > :36:54.

:36:54. > :37:03.to see the Health Secretary year. Some distance away, I notice. The

:37:03. > :37:08.Prime Minister says he wants that voice of doctors to be heard in the

:37:08. > :37:18.NHS. Why doesn't he listen to them? It is good to get a lecture on

:37:18. > :37:18.

:37:18. > :37:22.happy families are! I care passionately about our NHS not

:37:22. > :37:27.least because of what it has done for my family and because the

:37:27. > :37:31.amazing service that I have received. I want to see that

:37:31. > :37:35.excellence service implemented for everyone and that means two things.

:37:35. > :37:40.We have got to put more money into the NHS and we are putting the

:37:40. > :37:48.money in but it also means we have got to reform the NHS. He used to

:37:48. > :37:51.be in favour of the reform. Who said this? To safeguard the NHS and

:37:51. > :37:58.tough times we need sustained reform. That was in the Labour

:37:58. > :38:05.manifesto at the last election. On the issue of money, because the

:38:05. > :38:10.money in it NHS is important, we are committed to a �12.5 billion in

:38:10. > :38:19.this Parliament and yet his health spokesman sitting right there said

:38:19. > :38:24."it will be irresponsible to spend more money and the NHS". They are

:38:24. > :38:33.not in favour of the report -- reform, there are unsure of

:38:33. > :38:43.opportunists. -- they array Ben should opportunists. The Tory

:38:43. > :38:44.

:38:44. > :38:47.Reform Group has come out against these proposals. I have to say it

:38:47. > :38:57.it comes to something when even the Tories don't trust the Tories on

:38:57. > :39:00.

:39:00. > :39:04.the NHS. Listen to what the chair of the royal college of GPs and...

:39:04. > :39:12.When the people they want to put at the heart of the NHS say things

:39:12. > :39:18.about there bail, they just grown. It says it all. This bill is a

:39:18. > :39:22.burden. Aid makes no sense. It is in clear and, it will not deal with

:39:22. > :39:28.the big issues. It will result in the health service as certainly

:39:28. > :39:33.will never match the health service we had 12 months ago. Mr Speaker,

:39:33. > :39:36.which part of that doesn't he understand? Let's look at what

:39:36. > :39:43.happened to the NHS over the last 18 months. Let's look at the

:39:43. > :39:52.figures. 100,000 patients treated more every month. 4,000 extra

:39:52. > :39:57.doctors as the NHS. A number of clerical staff his Op. -- is up. A

:39:57. > :40:02.number of people in mixed sex wards is down. That is what is happening

:40:02. > :40:06.because you have got a combination of money going in and reform. We

:40:06. > :40:10.know what happens if you don't put in the money and you don't do the

:40:10. > :40:15.reform because there is one part of the NHS which is run by Labour and

:40:15. > :40:21.that is in Wales. Let's have a look at what is happening to the NHS in

:40:21. > :40:31.Wales. They have cut the money and one-third of people awaiting longer

:40:31. > :40:34.

:40:34. > :40:42.than 18 months. Abdelbaset Ali al- Megrahi 18 weeks. That is what is

:40:42. > :40:48.happening. He thought that the NHS was his way to modernising the

:40:48. > :40:52.Conservative Party and I am afraid it is coming apart. I will tell him

:40:52. > :40:59.why. The promises he made before the election are coming back to

:40:59. > :41:03.haunt him. We all remember that promise, no more top-down

:41:03. > :41:07.reorganisations. And now he says he knows better than the doctors,

:41:07. > :41:13.better than the nurses, better than the midwives, the Patient

:41:13. > :41:18.Associations, people who day in day out rely on and devote their lives

:41:18. > :41:22.to the health service. This is a matter of trust in the Prime

:41:22. > :41:28.Minister. Can he honestly look people in the health service in the

:41:28. > :41:32.eye and say he has kept his promise of no more top-down reorganisation?

:41:32. > :41:41.What we're doing is cutting the bureaucracy and in a Test. We are

:41:41. > :41:51.taking out 4 two and a half billion pounds of bureaucracy. -- �4.5

:41:51. > :41:51.

:41:51. > :41:55.million and. That is what is happening in the NHS. There is one

:41:56. > :42:01.group of people I will not listen to and that is that people who run

:42:01. > :42:07.the NHS under Labour. This is what they dead. �6 billion wasted on the

:42:07. > :42:12.NHS computer, �250 million spent on private sector operations that were

:42:12. > :42:17.never carried out, we have still got private finance initiative

:42:17. > :42:23.agreements where we pay �300 every time someone changes a light bulb.

:42:23. > :42:28.That is what we got from Labour. We are putting the money in and the

:42:28. > :42:38.reform in. The operations Arafat, the waiting times are down. That is

:42:38. > :42:40.

:42:40. > :42:43.how what is going to stay. -- the More doctors and nurses than ever

:42:43. > :42:51.before one under Labour. The highest level of patient

:42:51. > :42:56.satisfaction ever in the health service. Everyone will have heard a

:42:56. > :43:00.Prime Minister unable to defend the promise he made. The promise of no

:43:00. > :43:07.more top-down reorganisation. A Prime Minister who has broken his

:43:07. > :43:10.word. The reality is this, all his attention is on this. This top-down

:43:10. > :43:17.reorganisation and the front line are suffering. The number of people

:43:17. > :43:24.waiting more than 18 weeks are up under him. Cancelled operations.

:43:24. > :43:34.Why won't he give up and stop waiting billions and drop his bail?

:43:34. > :43:35.

:43:36. > :43:40.If the record was so good why would be thrown out at the last election?

:43:40. > :43:46.Order, order. I am worried about opposition members famous calm

:43:46. > :43:48.themselves and do so straight away. Prime Minister. Let me remind the

:43:48. > :43:53.right honourable honourable gentleman of the clear test that he

:43:53. > :43:57.set for the reforms and that he set for the government. He said the

:43:57. > :44:04.test whether waiting times and lists would come down. Let me give

:44:04. > :44:09.him the figures. In-patient waiting times are down. Out-patient waiting

:44:09. > :44:14.times are down. The number of people waiting more than a year and,

:44:14. > :44:19.down to its lowest level. The number of people waiting six months

:44:20. > :44:24.is down. The number of people on the waiting list, what he said has

:44:24. > :44:28.a clear test, that is down. That is what it proves about this Labour

:44:28. > :44:34.leader. Even when he moves the goalposts he can't put it in the

:44:34. > :44:40.back of the net was up the person who is moving the goalposts is the

:44:40. > :44:44.Prime Minister. The key test as well sat -- that was set for the

:44:44. > :44:49.health service was the number of people waiting more than 18 weeks

:44:49. > :44:53.and that is up 43% since the general election. However much he

:44:53. > :44:58.twists and turns, that is the reality. He knows in his heart of

:44:58. > :45:01.hearts this is a complete disaster. That is why his aides are saying

:45:01. > :45:06.the Health Secretary should be taken out and shot because they

:45:06. > :45:11.know it is a disaster. The reality is this, that doctors know it is

:45:11. > :45:15.bad for the NHS, the nurses know it is bad for the NHS and the patients

:45:15. > :45:20.know it is bad for the NHS. He fights for this bail and every day

:45:20. > :45:30.trust in him on the NHS at some way and every day it becomes clear at

:45:30. > :45:31.

:45:31. > :45:35.the health service is not safe in The career prospects for my right

:45:35. > :45:40.honorable Friend are a lot better than his! That is what this is

:45:40. > :45:44.about. This is not a campaign to save the NHS. This is a campaign to

:45:44. > :45:54.try and save his leadership. I make this prediction. The NHS will go on

:45:54. > :45:57.

:45:57. > :46:07.getting better, and his prospects will go on getting worse. When the

:46:07. > :46:08.

:46:08. > :46:13.work programme was introduced in 2010 those economically active has

:46:13. > :46:15.climbed. Would the Prime as delight to congratulate the people of

:46:15. > :46:21.Burley and in particular the recruitment people for that

:46:21. > :46:26.success? I joined my Honourable Friend in botany congratulating the

:46:26. > :46:29.people in Burnley, but also those conducting the work programme and

:46:29. > :46:33.our welfare reforms. What we're seeing is more people become able

:46:33. > :46:40.to work and therefore able to enter the workforce and to raise not only

:46:40. > :46:45.the country's living standards, but their own, too. People in Preston

:46:46. > :46:50.are furious that the Indian government has selected a French

:46:50. > :46:55.company for the Indian air force jet. The Prime Minister goes on

:46:55. > :47:02.repeatedly about rebalancing the UK economy and this is a major blow to

:47:02. > :47:05.manufacturing in they a colony. Why is this Prime Minister not doing

:47:05. > :47:08.this and why have we not got this contract with the Indian

:47:08. > :47:13.government? The Honourable Gentleman ought to think about the

:47:13. > :47:17.fact that all European leaders are actually backing the Eurofighter

:47:17. > :47:22.project. It is a German projects, an Italian project, a Spanish

:47:22. > :47:26.project, a British project, and that is why -- how it should be. I

:47:26. > :47:29.am disappointed by what has happened in India, but the

:47:29. > :47:35.Eurofighter is not out of the contest, and we need to re-engage

:47:35. > :47:39.as hard as we can to make sure that we get the best deal for all those

:47:39. > :47:43.workers in Britain who make them. I think this is something that ought

:47:43. > :47:53.to unite parties in this house, getting behind our great defence

:47:53. > :47:59.

:47:59. > :48:04.producers. A constituent of mine found that her GP and her

:48:04. > :48:08.consultant had to write 70 appeal letters. When will healthcare

:48:08. > :48:11.consultants decide what it means that patients can get. This is an

:48:11. > :48:15.important point. Since the introduction of the Cancer Drugs

:48:15. > :48:18.Fund under this Government, 10,000 more people have been able to get

:48:18. > :48:21.cancer drugs that are so essential. Let me tell you one thing that

:48:21. > :48:26.would really damage cancer treatment in this country, and that

:48:26. > :48:30.is the proposal from the party opposite to cap at 5% any private

:48:30. > :48:34.sector involvement in our hospitals. At the Royal Marsden, one of the

:48:34. > :48:38.best cancer hospitals in the country, they would have to cut by

:48:38. > :48:44.a quarter the services that they deliver. What a crazy left-wing

:48:44. > :48:49.plan but only the Honourable Gentleman could come up with.

:48:49. > :48:53.Speaker, in three months' time, just before the Olympics, Abu

:48:53. > :48:58.Qatada, a truly dangerous man, will be roaming the streets of London

:48:58. > :49:02.with his mobile phone and internet access, thanks to the Prime

:49:02. > :49:07.Minister abolishing control orders and house arrest provisions. How

:49:07. > :49:12.can the Prime Minister justified but think the public's right to

:49:12. > :49:17.life at risk in order to get over to the Liberal Democrats on their

:49:17. > :49:21.demands? It is disgusting. situation with Abu Qatada is

:49:21. > :49:26.completely unacceptable. As I said when I went to Strasbourg to make a

:49:26. > :49:29.speech about this issue, it is not acceptable that we end up with a

:49:29. > :49:33.situation where we have someone in the country that threatens to do

:49:33. > :49:38.harm, that you cannot try, that you cannot attain, and you cannot

:49:38. > :49:41.deport. That is why the Government will do everything it can, working

:49:41. > :49:46.with our Jordanian friends and allies, to make sure that he can be

:49:46. > :49:53.deported. Again, instead of sliding about this, the whole house or to

:49:53. > :50:01.unite to help sort this out. recently as last autumn, only a

:50:01. > :50:09.tiny handful of the 165 acute mental health adult in-patient beds

:50:09. > :50:15.in Hampshire were vacant, yet the trust concerned proposes to cut

:50:15. > :50:21.those 165 beds do 107, replacing them with something called a

:50:21. > :50:26.hospital at home or a virtual Ward. Given that I believe that the

:50:26. > :50:30.statistics on which this is based are inconsistent and a re --

:50:30. > :50:33.unreliable, will the Prime Minister support my call for independent

:50:33. > :50:38.experts from the Audit Commission to look at those figures before

:50:38. > :50:42.those beds are closed? Honourable Gentleman makes an

:50:43. > :50:47.important point. We are putting the extra resources into the NHS. There

:50:47. > :50:51.needs to be a clear series of tests, as there are now under our plans,

:50:52. > :50:55.before any facilities are changed or closed. That is about making

:50:55. > :50:58.sure there is a GP backing for what is proposed, and making sure that

:50:59. > :51:02.any such changes would improve the health in that area. I will happily

:51:02. > :51:08.look at the issues he raises as make sure that the Department of

:51:08. > :51:12.Health engage with him on that issue. For police authorities,

:51:12. > :51:16.including one I share with the Chancellor, have just started

:51:16. > :51:21.buying Hyundai cars imported from Korea. Add to that the Thameslink

:51:21. > :51:24.fiasco, add to that Olympic tickets, when are we going to see some

:51:24. > :51:30.leadership from the Prime Minister about public procurement in this

:51:30. > :51:34.country? The most important thing in terms of police procurement is

:51:34. > :51:38.that police forces get together and procured together to cut their

:51:38. > :51:41.costs. I think we have all lost count of the times of wandering

:51:41. > :51:45.through police stations and seeing countless different types of

:51:45. > :51:53.vehicle, all costing a large amount of money. What the public want is

:51:53. > :51:58.police on the streets, not money spent on a necessary be Kierman. --

:51:58. > :52:01.and necessary procurement. Could my right honorable Friend tell the

:52:01. > :52:07.House what steps he is taking to ensure the UK will be able to

:52:07. > :52:11.evacuate all UK nationals from conflict zones and reduce our

:52:11. > :52:15.reliance on civil chartered aircraft? This is an important one.

:52:15. > :52:17.The Libya evacuation and other potential evacuations in a

:52:17. > :52:23.dangerous world had brought home to ask the importance of having

:52:23. > :52:26.transport aircraft in the MoD and in the RAF, and I can announce

:52:26. > :52:31.today that because the MoD's finances are now better run and

:52:31. > :52:36.managed, and because we have found savings, we will be able to

:52:36. > :52:40.purchase an additional C 17 for the RAF. This aircraft is becoming

:52:40. > :52:45.absolutely brilliant work was for the RAF in terms of bringing men

:52:45. > :52:48.and material into a war zone like Afghanistan, and also evacuating

:52:48. > :52:55.civilians in times of need. It is important investment for the

:52:55. > :53:02.country. May I first of all associate myself with the tributes

:53:02. > :53:05.to her Majesty the Queen. Yesterday, the all-party independent group on

:53:05. > :53:09.stalking published its report. The Prime Minister knows of my interest

:53:09. > :53:14.in this subject, and the government consultation concluded yesterday.

:53:14. > :53:19.Will he now please meet with myself and a small group of all party

:53:19. > :53:23.members to discuss this urgent need for a stalking law? We do take this

:53:23. > :53:29.issue very seriously and I am happy to meet with him and discuss it. I

:53:29. > :53:32.know he has had conversations with the Home Office. If there is a need

:53:32. > :53:35.for legislative changes, there may well be opportunities in the next

:53:35. > :53:40.session for that sort of criminal justice legislation and I will

:53:40. > :53:45.happily meet and talk with him about debt. During apprenticeship

:53:45. > :53:48.week, we have increased the number of apprenticeships in my

:53:48. > :53:52.constituency over the last three years, and the Government has

:53:53. > :53:57.increased the number of apprenticeships by 100 Z D 7,000 in

:53:57. > :54:00.the last year alone. Does my right Hon events agree that achievements

:54:00. > :54:03.like these illustrate the importance and commitment required

:54:03. > :54:09.to give apprenticeships at the focus and attention and recognition

:54:09. > :54:12.that they deserve? My Honourable Friend is right. It is one of the

:54:12. > :54:16.most important investments we can make in the future industrial base

:54:16. > :54:20.of this country, and helping young people is investing in

:54:20. > :54:25.apprenticeships. The number is up by a staggering 60% in the last

:54:25. > :54:29.year. 457,000 people starting apprenticeships. In apprenticeship

:54:29. > :54:33.week, it is important to stress what we are doing to get over the

:54:33. > :54:37.objectors and the pass that people have had, making sure there are

:54:37. > :54:41.more apprenticeships more easily had by small businesses, making

:54:41. > :54:45.sure we have higher levels of apprenticeships to show that they

:54:45. > :54:50.are every bit as good as having a university degree, and often

:54:50. > :54:53.involve a degree. And also, cutting the bureaucracy by allowing big

:54:53. > :54:56.businesses to actually run the schemes themselves, rather than

:54:56. > :55:05.doing it through a training provider. All of these things make

:55:05. > :55:09.a big difference. Why has not the Government lodged an appeal against

:55:09. > :55:14.the Abu Qatada judgment? Are you not being dangerously complacent,

:55:14. > :55:18.Prime Minister? We are doing everything we can to get this man

:55:18. > :55:22.out of the country. The key thing to do is an agreement with Jordan

:55:22. > :55:26.about the way that he will be treated because the European Court

:55:26. > :55:30.on Human Rights has made a very clear judgment on that. I happen to

:55:30. > :55:34.think it is the wrong judgment and I regret it. He should have been

:55:34. > :55:40.deported years ago, but nevertheless, if we can get that

:55:40. > :55:44.agreement with Jordan, he can be on his way. Small businesses are

:55:44. > :55:48.nervous about hiring new staff. Would the Prime Minister agree that

:55:48. > :55:53.we need a simpler alternative for our smallest firms for dismissal

:55:53. > :55:57.rules? My Honourable Friend is right to raise this issue. If every

:55:57. > :56:02.small business in the country hired an additional worker that would go

:56:02. > :56:05.a long way to during both long-term and total unemployment in one

:56:05. > :56:10.stroke. We have got to make it easier for businesses to take

:56:10. > :56:13.people on. One of business is key considerations is how difficult it

:56:13. > :56:16.is to let someone go if it does not work out, and that is why extending

:56:16. > :56:22.to two years the amount of time you have to work before getting access

:56:22. > :56:26.to a tribunal would make a real difference. We have heard from the

:56:26. > :56:31.Prime Minister how Italian governments and German governments

:56:31. > :56:34.are out there fighting for British jobs. Can the Prime Minister tell

:56:35. > :56:39.us exactly how many phone conversations he had directly with

:56:39. > :56:44.the Indian Prime Minister about the Typhoon bit, and when the last

:56:44. > :56:52.conversation actually took place? raised this issue repeatedly on my

:56:52. > :56:56.visit to India, and indeed at the G20. Let me remind her of one

:56:56. > :57:00.important fact. When I loaded up an aeroplane with British businesses,

:57:00. > :57:06.including people like Rolls-Royce, and took them round the Gulf to

:57:06. > :57:10.sell our defensive equipment, who was it who attacked me? Who was it

:57:10. > :57:19.that does not stand up for British industry and British jobs? It is

:57:19. > :57:25.Labour! I visited the offices at a press but is he -- hear what my

:57:25. > :57:31.constituents have been saying to them about proposed changes to

:57:32. > :57:35.services at the hospital. Labour's tragic legacy in my constituency is

:57:35. > :57:38.distrust and despair. Does he agree with me that the right way to

:57:38. > :57:44.deliver local accountability in health care in my constituency is

:57:44. > :57:47.Clan na Gael conditioning and Foundation Trust statement --

:57:47. > :57:51.clinical conditioning? The whole point of the reforms is to put the

:57:51. > :57:55.power in the hands of local doctors so that they make decisions on

:57:55. > :57:59.behalf of patients and what is good for health care in their local area.

:57:59. > :58:02.Meat may well find that the committee hospitals that were

:58:02. > :58:06.repeatedly undermined by the party opposite would actually get a great

:58:06. > :58:16.boost because local people and doctors want to see them sexy. That

:58:16. > :58:16.

:58:16. > :58:23.is what our reforms are all about. Thousands of women have been left

:58:23. > :58:33.sick with anxiety regarding the PIP implants, and now they are being

:58:33. > :58:37.compounded by a dithering and a jazz. In the future we can see...

:58:37. > :58:41.Will the Prime Minister pledged to support the NHS up and claim

:58:41. > :58:45.against the clinics are later and drop the Bill so that we don't have

:58:45. > :58:50.this happening again in future? me take this question in two halves.

:58:50. > :58:53.She is entirely right about this scandal of these implants. The

:58:53. > :58:57.Government has made absolutely clear that we will offer every one

:58:57. > :59:01.of those women a free consultation and make sure that on the NHS we do

:59:01. > :59:04.everything we can to help them. It is an absolute scandal, and the

:59:04. > :59:08.private clinics that carried out those operations should feel the

:59:08. > :59:12.maximum pressure to undo the harm that they have done. But, let me

:59:12. > :59:16.just say to her, about the issue of greater competition and choice

:59:16. > :59:20.within the NHS, I actually think she should listen to past Labour

:59:20. > :59:25.politicians who have set themselves that greater choice, greater

:59:25. > :59:32.competition, the involvement of the private sector that can help raise

:59:32. > :59:36.standards in our NHS system, and that is why we should support it.

:59:36. > :59:42.The threat to shipbuilding jobs at Portsmouth dockyard raises a

:59:42. > :59:45.question over 1,500 livelihoods, and also 32,000 jobs in the wider

:59:45. > :59:49.regional supply chain. I know that the Prime Minister shares my

:59:49. > :59:52.concerns about this, but will he committed doing all he can to

:59:52. > :59:58.protect this site where they have been building warships for over 500

:59:58. > :00:01.years? The Honourable Lady is absolutely right to speak up for

:00:01. > :00:05.Portsmouth and for her constituency, and to speak up for shipbuilding.

:00:05. > :00:09.BAe Systems has not approached the Government with any proposal to

:00:09. > :00:16.nationalised shipbuilding in the UK. As far as I know, no decisions have

:00:16. > :00:19.been taken by the country. We are building the new frigates, built in

:00:19. > :00:24.the global combat ship, building these submarines. There are plans

:00:24. > :00:27.for replacing Trident, and also there are plans well under way for

:00:27. > :00:37.having aircraft carriers. That is a major punched for the Royal Navy

:00:37. > :00:38.

:00:38. > :00:44.The tax raised on North Sea oil in gas and putting jobs at risk. Can I

:00:44. > :00:47.ask the Prime Minister not be complacent about north-east jobs

:00:47. > :00:50.better incentive vies offshore development and guarantee tax

:00:50. > :00:56.relief on platform the commissioning in the budget and to

:00:57. > :01:01.meet with me and others about the job situation the North-East.

:01:01. > :01:06.honourable lady raises an important point. When I went Aberdeen, I saw

:01:06. > :01:12.how this -- how vital this industry is and how much investment is

:01:12. > :01:16.taking place in the North Sea. The reason we put up the tax on North

:01:16. > :01:23.Sea was to cut petrol duty for families up-and-down the country.

:01:23. > :01:27.We will make sure... Members are falling about. I want to hear the

:01:27. > :01:32.Prime Minister's answer. We will make sure there is a good tax

:01:32. > :01:42.regime for the North Sea if it is servicing jobs in England or

:01:42. > :01:43.

:01:43. > :01:48.Scotland. Last Wednesday the Commons rejected the Lords attempts

:01:48. > :01:52.on the reform bills. The Commons voted, the Prime Minister and

:01:52. > :01:58.Deputy Prime Minister voted. The children as minister, the

:01:58. > :02:03.honourable member for Brent South were at -- Central, has spoken

:02:03. > :02:07.against the policy. On occasion I have spoken against the government

:02:07. > :02:17.and not supported them. But I am not a government minister. Why is

:02:17. > :02:21.

:02:21. > :02:26.she still a government minister? want to hear the Prime Minister! We

:02:26. > :02:30.weren't if there is too much noise. I thought he was going to say yes.

:02:30. > :02:40.The honourable lady is a government minister, she support government

:02:40. > :02:41.

:02:41. > :02:46.policy as all government ministers do. There are changes to

:02:46. > :02:56.contributing to unemployment support allowance. The last 10% are

:02:56. > :02:56.

:02:56. > :03:00.going to lose �4,900 a year. Is this their government of value?

:03:00. > :03:03.important Valleywood respect to employment support allowance is we

:03:03. > :03:08.are saying there are two groups, the support groups whole are not

:03:08. > :03:13.able to work, we deserve to get that were and for as long as they

:03:13. > :03:16.need it without any element of means testing. The second element,

:03:16. > :03:20.the Work Related Activity Group, a people need help to get work but

:03:20. > :03:24.will be able to work. That is why they're in that group and they

:03:25. > :03:28.would get tailored help and support under the work programme. The

:03:28. > :03:38.Labour Party has set his face it is welfare reform and they think

:03:38. > :03:46.

:03:46. > :03:50.they're making a massive mistake. Russia and China set themselves

:03:50. > :03:54.against Arab opinion and world opinion in what passing what would

:03:54. > :03:58.have been a strong and good UN resolution. My right honourable

:03:58. > :04:02.friend the Foreign Secretary was right to push for the resolution.

:04:02. > :04:06.We need to see, and Bristol will be playing a big part in this, his

:04:07. > :04:11.real engagement with the opposition group. -- and Britain. We need to

:04:11. > :04:14.bring together the strongest international alliance so we can

:04:14. > :04:18.co-ordinate our efforts with respect to getting rid of this

:04:18. > :04:25.dreadful regime in Syria and making sure through the you we continue

:04:25. > :04:28.with sanctions and pressure. -- the EU. The Russians have to look at

:04:28. > :04:31.their consciences and realise what they have done but the rest of the

:04:31. > :04:41.world will keep on fighting as hard as we can to give the Syrian people

:04:41. > :04:45.a chance to choose their own future. The health expert is visiting the

:04:45. > :04:51.UK is saying the NHS remains a beacon for care and effectiveness

:04:51. > :04:58.in the world. It needs to be improved and perfected not changed.

:04:58. > :05:03.Will the Prime Minister accept that advice and abandon the Health Bill?

:05:03. > :05:09.Labour's approach to the NHS in Wales these to be abandoned. He

:05:09. > :05:17.shakes his head. This is what is happening in Wales. They have cut

:05:17. > :05:22.health spending by �400 million. That is a 6.5% cut. To end-December

:05:22. > :05:30.sent of people in Wales wait more than six weeks for diagnostic

:05:30. > :05:40.services. -- 27%. A third of people waiting more than 18 weeks for

:05:40. > :05:43.

:05:43. > :05:51.their operation in Wales. That is what you get if you get Labour.

:05:51. > :05:59.Many of my constituents are worried about redundancies announced by

:05:59. > :06:03.Ceri foods. The honourable honourable gentleman for Great

:06:03. > :06:11.Grimsby and died a poached egg is the Commons for support which I am

:06:11. > :06:19.sure will be forthcoming. -- have approached departments in the

:06:19. > :06:22.Commons. He is quite right to speak up for

:06:22. > :06:25.in constituents in this way. The Chancellor is very happy to look at

:06:25. > :06:31.the idea of expanding the Enterprise Zone and seeing what has

:06:31. > :06:36.we can do to help his constituents and make sure they get into work.

:06:36. > :06:40.There is Prime Minister's Questions over for another week. Plenty of

:06:40. > :06:47.tributes in the Chamber for Her Majesty the Queen but no consensus

:06:47. > :06:55.on the health bill. The Prime Minister called on how the NHS is

:06:55. > :06:59.being run in Wales. I shan't ask confirmed a republican

:06:59. > :07:05.Bethan Jenkins to pay tribute to the Queen but I will ask you, Mike

:07:05. > :07:10.Hedges, what you thought it David Cameron's attack on the NHS in

:07:10. > :07:14.Wales which is run by your party. would say he is wrong. The only

:07:14. > :07:21.thing have found interesting was his party in the Assembly, he was

:07:21. > :07:29.talking about a 20% cut, he has dropped its is six and 5%. It could

:07:29. > :07:37.have been caused by a cut by his government in Westminster. Do you

:07:37. > :07:45.accept what he was saying about 27% of people Waits's more for

:07:45. > :07:50.diagnostics in Wales. -- wait. know the problem with Orthopaedics

:07:50. > :07:54.in words which the Health Minister put substantial amounts of money in.

:07:54. > :07:57.Bethan Jenkins, I am sure your party would love to hear where has

:07:57. > :08:00.mentioned during Prime Minister's Question but perhaps not in that

:08:00. > :08:07.context. The Prime Minister did come under a lot of pressure from

:08:07. > :08:11.Ed Miliband on the NHS. Could you think came off better? -- who do

:08:12. > :08:18.you think. There were questions planted on both sides from Labour,

:08:18. > :08:25.stating how bad these changes were and from the Tories, in praising

:08:25. > :08:30.clinicians. It is difficult to tell. In terms of the references to Wales,

:08:30. > :08:34.David Cameron will be doing much more of this now we are fully aware

:08:34. > :08:41.Wales as the only place where Labour has any form of power. He

:08:41. > :08:46.will be constantly referring to Labour mishandling or failures. I

:08:46. > :08:51.agree that the Budget has been cut from Westminster and it is a bit

:08:51. > :08:55.hypocritical for him to say lookout bad Wales is coping. If we had that

:08:56. > :09:01.investment we would not be cutting any budget at all. That is my

:09:01. > :09:09.analysis. If we look at who the Prime Minister and Ed Miliband had

:09:09. > :09:15.sat next to them, Ed Miliband had Andy Byrne and who was the Health

:09:15. > :09:20.Secretary -- Andy Byrne them. Andrew Lansley was a mile away from

:09:20. > :09:24.David Cameron. Maybe he was frightened he was going to get

:09:25. > :09:31.shot! Perhaps the Prime Minister was distancing himself from Andrew

:09:31. > :09:37.Lansley. He is pushing him further and further to was the end of the

:09:37. > :09:47.front bench until eventually he falls off. You mentioned Syria

:09:47. > :09:47.

:09:47. > :09:52.would, and it did. Congratulations for that one. Foreign affairs don't

:09:52. > :10:02.feature as much as the used to. What do you make of William Hague's

:10:02. > :10:05.stands on sit here? He has come out quite a strongly is the Russians.

:10:05. > :10:13.The West and pensions are selling arms to other Middle-Eastern

:10:13. > :10:19.countries so I think if you're going to sell weapons to other

:10:19. > :10:26.Middle Eastern tyrants you can't criticise Russia. -- the Western

:10:26. > :10:30.nations. William Hague hasn't got a clear run on theirs. Elfyn Llwyd

:10:30. > :10:34.had a question on stalking. The Prime Minister said he would meet

:10:34. > :10:40.he -- me to him and people from other parties to discuss the

:10:40. > :10:45.introduction of the stalking law. This is a non-party political issue.

:10:45. > :10:50.It is something that has got to beat them. Women tend to be on the

:10:50. > :10:54.receiving end. It is usually former boyfriends who decide they don't

:10:54. > :11:00.want to be former boyfriends and it creates a huge problem and a huge

:11:00. > :11:05.amount of fear. There seems to be a lack of action. Following somebody

:11:05. > :11:12.around, and generally making them feel nervous doesn't seem enough

:11:12. > :11:20.until something happens to them. you agree legislation needs to come

:11:20. > :11:24.in? Definitely. In terms of rehabilitation for offenders, it is

:11:24. > :11:27.something we need to recognise. Elfyn Llwyd has been leading on

:11:27. > :11:33.this about a rehabilitation and that should come hand in hand with

:11:33. > :11:37.the new law. There is no point in sending somebody to jail for two

:11:37. > :11:42.years, they need to be rehabilitated. It is some sort of

:11:42. > :11:50.mental illness that made them so obsessive. It is important that

:11:50. > :11:55.when they come out they don't go back to stalking again. Many thanks.

:11:55. > :11:59.We will be back before we finish this afternoon. Coming up, we will

:11:59. > :12:04.hear from two Welsh MPs as they discuss agriculture in the Welsh

:12:04. > :12:08.Grand Committee. There are now three, and Simon Thomas pulled out

:12:08. > :12:13.of the Plaid Cymru leadership contest switching his support to

:12:13. > :12:17.Elin Jones. We have heard from one of his supporters last week and we

:12:17. > :12:25.have heard from supporters of Leanne Wood and Elin Jones was up

:12:25. > :12:34.this time it is the turn of bad at Ellis Thomas. -- this time it is

:12:34. > :12:39.the turn of Dafydd Ellis Thomas. Why do you reckon he has the

:12:39. > :12:45.attributes to lead the party at what is a crucial time?

:12:46. > :12:49.There are many things, one is the clear the need for us to get a

:12:49. > :12:53.united party that up we need stability and a feeling that we

:12:53. > :12:58.have the team all over Wales and the team that is represented at

:12:58. > :13:03.different levels of government. The are the crucial thing is the new

:13:03. > :13:09.leader has to understand what government is all about. Plaid

:13:09. > :13:14.Cymru exists because Wales exists. To improve the lot of Wales we need

:13:14. > :13:19.to be in Government at whatever level. He understands that and has

:13:19. > :13:27.got a role to play in government for the better of Wales. There has

:13:27. > :13:35.been a tendency across the parties when selecting new party leaders.

:13:35. > :13:40.They tend to jump a generation. The Conservatives did it with David

:13:40. > :13:44.Cameron and Labour did it with Tony Blair. You're jumping back a

:13:44. > :13:51.generation. We need to recognise who was the best person to serve a

:13:51. > :13:55.party. Recognising that Wales via her National Assembly has

:13:55. > :14:05.progressed over recent years very much soap YouTube that the Ellis

:14:05. > :14:13.

:14:13. > :14:17.Thomas, -- due to it than it Ellis He has the ability to do that. He

:14:17. > :14:22.is a recognised figure outside the party and that is the key issue.

:14:22. > :14:25.The party leader must show they project themselves out words rather

:14:25. > :14:30.than be inward-looking and that is sometimes one of the things we do

:14:30. > :14:36.as a party rather too much. stressed the need to have

:14:36. > :14:42.leadership skills. The reality is he has not been in a position, a

:14:42. > :14:47.frontline position, in politics for many years. He has been the

:14:47. > :14:51.Assembly Presiding Officer. Isn't it's like the referee in a football

:14:51. > :14:57.match deciding to stop being a referee and wanting to become one

:14:57. > :15:02.of the team leaders? What he is concentrating on his his role as

:15:02. > :15:06.progressing the constitution of Wales. He has done that

:15:06. > :15:10.magnificently and we are now at a situation where the National

:15:10. > :15:15.Assembly has law making powers. The next step is to make sure that we

:15:15. > :15:19.as a party, we has Plaid Cymru, can be a party of government and to

:15:19. > :15:23.drive Wales forward. We are ambitious for Wales. To realise

:15:23. > :15:33.that ambition we have to make sure we are in government and hopefully

:15:33. > :15:35.

:15:35. > :15:39.after the next election we will be You mentioned there the work he has

:15:40. > :15:44.done with taking forward the constitutional agenda. You are a

:15:44. > :15:46.council leader, you are involved in spending millions, you are also

:15:46. > :15:53.involved in looking for cuts because of the current economic

:15:53. > :15:58.climate. How does Dafydd Elis- Thomas relate beyond that

:15:58. > :16:03.constitutional debate - what is his big idea in terms of the services

:16:03. > :16:09.that actually affect people's daily lives? You are absolutely right.

:16:09. > :16:12.There is a danger that we are navel-gazing, and maybe look at the

:16:12. > :16:16.constitution as a deal breaker as far as the people of Wales are

:16:16. > :16:21.concerned. The deal breaker is the quality of life for people in Wales,

:16:21. > :16:25.and I think he has an agenda of sustainability at all levels, be

:16:25. > :16:30.its environmental, social or economic, so that we can build this

:16:30. > :16:36.new Wales, a vibrant Wales, that will take its role in the world as

:16:36. > :16:39.well and will be able to play on the world stage, as well as

:16:39. > :16:48.promoting a better quality of life and achievement for the people of

:16:48. > :16:52.Wales at all levels. We will go back now to mark to find

:16:52. > :16:57.out more about one of the debates in the Assembly today. The

:16:57. > :17:03.Conservatives are upset about what they see as unfulfilled health

:17:03. > :17:09.pledges by the Government. I am joined by Darren Mellor. What has

:17:09. > :17:13.got your goat about what you see as a failure to deliver on health?

:17:13. > :17:17.have been told that a haul of this term would be about delivery on the

:17:17. > :17:22.NHS, delivery on education and delivery on so many other things,

:17:22. > :17:25.and yet we are now many months into the first year of the 4th Assembly,

:17:25. > :17:30.and yet we have not seen at two of the primary pledges in the Labour

:17:30. > :17:35.manifesto fulfilled. One of those was access to GPs by extending

:17:35. > :17:40.opening hours in local practices between 8am and 8pm and also on

:17:40. > :17:44.Saturdays, and the other in terms of extending access to over 50s

:17:44. > :17:47.screening for everybody in Wales on an annual basis, led by GPs and

:17:47. > :17:54.clinicians. It is not happening and there were no plans to make it

:17:54. > :17:56.happen. Surely it is not fair to say there are no plans. We know for

:17:56. > :17:59.example the extended hours have been discussed by the Health

:17:59. > :18:03.Committee. You know as well as I do that it takes time to implement

:18:03. > :18:07.those kind of policies. Things are happening, maybe not as quickly as

:18:08. > :18:11.you would like, but it is unfair to say plans are not in motion.

:18:11. > :18:14.have been asking questions of ministers for many months on these

:18:14. > :18:19.issues, and it appears they are getting further and further behind.

:18:19. > :18:21.For example in July of last year, I tabled questions asking about

:18:21. > :18:25.whether the detailed costings of those plants had been worked out

:18:25. > :18:29.and I was told that they were being worked on and that there would be

:18:29. > :18:31.more information coming late in the year. In the autumn, we ask further

:18:31. > :18:35.questions and it appeared that there were no detailed costings

:18:35. > :18:41.because these things were going to cost more money. We were told there

:18:41. > :18:44.would be a statement in their new year. We have just come into the

:18:44. > :18:49.new year and there has been no statements. I am looking forward to

:18:49. > :18:52.seeing what the minister has got to say. Indeed, it will be interesting

:18:52. > :19:00.to see what is said. Let's turn to a different subject. I am keen to

:19:00. > :19:04.get your take on this AWEMA story. This 2004 report, what do you make

:19:04. > :19:08.of its significance? It is very important because it will include a

:19:08. > :19:12.number of recommendations which point to the fact that no more

:19:12. > :19:15.public money should have been given to this organisation and less

:19:15. > :19:18.rigorous processes and procedures were in place which would be

:19:18. > :19:21.monitored by the Welsh government. It would appear that those

:19:21. > :19:24.processes have not been put in place and that the advice in that

:19:24. > :19:27.report has not been heeded. I think the Welsh government have lots of

:19:27. > :19:31.questions to answer on this, and I am delighted we will have the

:19:31. > :19:34.opportunity to question government ministers today. We should guard

:19:34. > :19:37.against jumping to too many conclusions because this report was

:19:37. > :19:41.looking at something entirely separate from the current business.

:19:41. > :19:44.There was no indication of financial wrongdoing or bullying.

:19:44. > :19:48.This was about a failure to deliver on projects, and it could well be

:19:48. > :19:52.that those particular grievances were addressed at the time.

:19:52. > :19:56.talks in the report about the need to make sure there is adequate

:19:56. > :19:59.management of finances, adequate management of products -- projects,

:19:59. > :20:04.and it made a clear recommendation that no further public funds should

:20:04. > :20:08.have been given to AWEMA NS those processes were improved. It would

:20:08. > :20:12.seem that some of those allegations point to the fact that they may not

:20:12. > :20:20.be improvement in the margin of the situation. The permanent secretary

:20:20. > :20:23.has admitted as much. I think there are questions to ask of ministers

:20:23. > :20:26.about their involvement in sorting this out. I know that your leader

:20:26. > :20:32.has got a question tabled this afternoon and it will be

:20:32. > :20:36.interesting to see what comes out of that. Thank you for joining us.

:20:36. > :20:41.I alluded to it earlier. The Welsh Grand Committee of MPs is meeting

:20:41. > :20:45.in Westminster today, discussing agriculture. Our reporter has been

:20:45. > :20:54.speaking to the shadow farming minister and the Liberal Democrat

:20:54. > :20:58.MP for Brecon, Roger Williams, about cap reform.

:20:58. > :21:04.You are the shadow farming minister, and I saw that you tweeted

:21:04. > :21:07.yesterday asking people for their thoughts on farming, on agriculture.

:21:07. > :21:13.Was cap the common agriculture policy, the thing that people were

:21:13. > :21:17.getting back to you on? That was one, but the most responses I had

:21:17. > :21:22.in response to that was over the abolition of the Agricultural wages

:21:22. > :21:25.bill which is a travesty. Farmers' Union of Wales have always

:21:25. > :21:29.supported the board because it has kept a defiant -- decent standard

:21:29. > :21:33.of living but it has also made sure they have got the right skilled

:21:33. > :21:37.people in place. This government in the UK has decided to abolish it.

:21:37. > :21:43.Estimates have said it will take �9 million a year out of the UK

:21:43. > :21:47.economy. What is the effect of that on the Welsh economy? Cap reform is

:21:47. > :21:50.vital importance a lot of the debate today will focus around that,

:21:50. > :21:53.and Welsh farmers do have concerns because they are great stewards of

:21:53. > :21:57.the country, but also want to make sure they can sustain the tub of

:21:57. > :22:02.Welsh farming which is typically small family farms, rather than the

:22:02. > :22:09.type of funds we might see in East Anglia or elsewhere. Plaid Cymru

:22:09. > :22:13.argued that 80% of farm revenue comes from the cap policy, so what

:22:13. > :22:17.have a huge impact on those farmers? It could do, and there are

:22:17. > :22:21.a number of details that I could bore you with. The essence is,

:22:21. > :22:24.where it has been going for a number of years is towards the

:22:24. > :22:28.public benefits as well as food production, away from the old idea

:22:28. > :22:33.of subsidies for farmers simply to produce goods for shops. What this

:22:33. > :22:38.is to do with his, for example, on the hills in Wales the of

:22:38. > :22:44.reintroduction of white cattle for the first time in a generation in

:22:44. > :22:48.order to help flood alleviation, the issue of how we deal with the

:22:48. > :22:51.restoration of box. That is where a lot of the money is going to now,

:22:51. > :22:55.as well as food production. The other thing that people want to

:22:55. > :23:00.know, is will this help us with affordable prices on our shelves?

:23:00. > :23:03.One of the things we will discuss today is whether the new groceries

:23:03. > :23:08.adjudicator have real teeth to deliver for farmers and also for

:23:08. > :23:13.consumers. These are vital issues. Roger Williams, the cap policy has

:23:13. > :23:18.get Europe's food price is pretty high. Do you think that needs to

:23:18. > :23:21.change, and will that have an impact on trade and export?

:23:22. > :23:25.disagree actually. We have just had some statistics from the library

:23:25. > :23:29.here we show is over a very long period of time, food prices have

:23:29. > :23:33.remained very stable. They have been a few spikes just recently,

:23:33. > :23:37.and I think that is a warning shot that we need to be producing food

:23:37. > :23:43.in order that prices don't rise to quickly. That is one thing I will

:23:43. > :23:47.be looking into as far as page is concerned. Wales also exports a lot

:23:47. > :23:52.of food, and one thing counting against that at the moment is that

:23:52. > :23:56.the various trade barriers are in place which prevent food being

:23:56. > :24:00.exported, for instance, to America. Good work is being done on that.

:24:00. > :24:05.And even to China, which would be a real coup for us in terms of

:24:05. > :24:10.getting quality Welsh products into these markets. Now exports to the

:24:10. > :24:14.States? Not at the moment, but this barrier is in place and it is one

:24:14. > :24:17.thing I have talked to the American agricultural attache about. I will

:24:17. > :24:22.raise this issue in debate today, and I hope the minister will

:24:22. > :24:27.respond to it. But the levels of subsidy to farming are

:24:27. > :24:31.unsustainable, aren't they? thing which the current Government

:24:31. > :24:38.are trying to argue for is that they need to be more affordable. It

:24:38. > :24:43.is still the case that over 40% of the EU total budget goes into farm

:24:43. > :24:49.payments in one for all -- form or another. But that has come down

:24:49. > :24:52.from 40% to about 22% over the last couple of decades. Farmers rely on

:24:52. > :24:57.address, and we have encouraged farmers to diversify, to get other

:24:57. > :25:01.parts of the business. That is all very good, but the truth of the

:25:01. > :25:04.matter is the taxpayer wants to seek more bang for their buck from

:25:04. > :25:08.what is coming out of farming, and if that means the way that our

:25:08. > :25:11.landscape is looked after, the way our biodiversity is enhanced, as

:25:11. > :25:15.well as food security and affordable food on our shelves, we

:25:16. > :25:20.are asking farmers to do a lot. But I think that is a lot because there

:25:20. > :25:25.is a lot of money going into farming as well. Do we need to cap

:25:25. > :25:29.the cap? Well, I think you will see over a long period of Tom the

:25:29. > :25:33.reduction in subsidies that farmers receive, and that is inevitable. We

:25:33. > :25:41.must ensure that farmers are in a position to market their produce

:25:41. > :25:44.properly. The grocery adjudicator of so. Then the farming community

:25:45. > :25:48.will be able to stand on their own two feet and depend upon subsidies

:25:48. > :25:53.less in the future. In the long term, it has to be reduced and made

:25:53. > :25:57.more affordable. But we must make sure at the same time we don't

:25:57. > :26:01.drive farmers out of business and jeopardise our food security, and

:26:01. > :26:06.jeopardise the landscape we love. These things are intertwined so

:26:06. > :26:11.intimately that we have to be very careful. But yes, farming has to be

:26:11. > :26:15.more competitive in the UK because we have great opportunities with

:26:15. > :26:18.international export as well. It is a big ask, but I know that Alan

:26:18. > :26:22.Davies in the Welsh Assembly will be met -- working hard to make it

:26:22. > :26:26.work for Welsh farmers. Bentley before joining us.

:26:26. > :26:31.Well, we will have a quick chat with our guests before we leave you

:26:31. > :26:34.today. Julie Morgan spoke earlier about her debate this afternoon on

:26:34. > :26:41.dangerous dogs. You're going to contribute to that debate, aren't

:26:41. > :26:44.you? Yes, I will support the chipping of dogs. You have owners

:26:44. > :26:53.who create dangerous Dogs by not looking after them properly, not

:26:53. > :26:57.training them properly, and letting them run wild. I still have a

:26:57. > :27:02.bruise on my hip from the last time I was chased in a garden by a dog.

:27:02. > :27:09.There were too nice small dogs coming towards me... That was the

:27:09. > :27:15.end of them, surely? I had to get out quickly! Bad then, the dangers

:27:16. > :27:24.of campaigning. -- Bethan Jenkins. Have you sustained any campaigning

:27:24. > :27:29.injuries? I have not broken anything, but I never wear my iPod

:27:29. > :27:35.when delivering leaflets because you can't hear dogs. You have got

:27:35. > :27:39.to be careful. Avid viewers noticed David Miliband was striking a dog

:27:39. > :27:43.on the campaign trail earlier. Mike was concerned that the dog did not

:27:43. > :27:47.bite him, and David Miliband did ask if the dog was a Labour dog and

:27:47. > :27:52.he said that it was. On the serious point of Chipping animals, do you

:27:52. > :27:55.support what Julie Morgan is suggesting today? Yes, I do support

:27:55. > :28:00.what she has suggested. It is important that we have that in

:28:00. > :28:04.place. It is about owners as well, but it is about the type of breeds

:28:04. > :28:10.that are taken into Wales. We need to look at that element as well as

:28:10. > :28:18.the owner influence on how dogs behave. I can't disagree with that.

:28:18. > :28:22.It is the owners - you can have nice box of almost any breed if

:28:22. > :28:26.they have been brought up properly. A bit like children. Thank you for

:28:26. > :28:30.your time today. But is it for today. The assembly is in recess