:00:26. > :00:36.Good morning and welcome to am.pm on a Wednesday, the first of 2012.
:00:36. > :00:42.We have a full programme for you today. Proposed bound to changes
:00:42. > :00:48.aim to cut Wales's 40 MPs down to 30. They will also look at the
:00:48. > :00:58.issue of Scottish independence. New legislation aims to support young
:00:58. > :01:03.
:01:03. > :01:07.Joining me on the sofa and are Aled Roberts and Bethan Jenkins the
:01:07. > :01:14.Assembly members. I mention Boundary changes in the headlines.
:01:14. > :01:19.We will have opportunity to discuss that later. We will begin with the
:01:19. > :01:26.referendum on Scottish independence. The Scottish First Minister says
:01:26. > :01:31.his government has a mandate to hold it in the autumn of 2014. The
:01:31. > :01:40.row threatens to escalate into a constitutional crisis between the
:01:40. > :01:44.Scottish government and Westminster. Some people within the UK
:01:44. > :01:50.government might agree with Alex Salmond but it was none of David
:01:50. > :01:57.Cameron's business to interfere? was the diktat about the
:01:57. > :02:04.timetabling. Legally, the position is that the UK constitution is a
:02:04. > :02:09.matter for the UK Parliament. We need to be mature about this and
:02:09. > :02:19.the need to be discussions between both bodies regarding the timing
:02:19. > :02:24.
:02:24. > :02:29.and there is an issue regarding the Actual question. We need to stand
:02:29. > :02:38.back and have a mature discussion regarding the situation. A mature
:02:38. > :02:48.discussion is not what is happening this week? I do not think it has
:02:48. > :02:55.
:02:55. > :03:02.anything to do with the personality. It has been said that it would
:03:02. > :03:07.contravene the law if the UK can moment and said they could not
:03:07. > :03:12.press on with the referendum. It is obviously political wrangling in
:03:12. > :03:17.the sense that David Cameron is fighting to save the Union when he
:03:17. > :03:20.knows Alex Salmond and the SNP are riding a tide of support for
:03:20. > :03:28.independence in Scotland which will clearly have an effect on Wales and
:03:28. > :03:35.other parts of the UK. If there is or a referendum, it is more likely
:03:35. > :03:40.to be defeated if it is sooner rather than later. David Cameron
:03:40. > :03:50.wants to save the Union. We believe in a federal relationship within
:03:50. > :03:51.
:03:51. > :03:54.the United Kingdom. Alex Salmond once it when they will be
:03:54. > :04:00.celebrating the Battle of Bannockburn. Everyone will be proud
:04:00. > :04:03.of being Scottish then. The legal position his we are talking about
:04:03. > :04:10.the constitutional settlement required within the UK. Scotland
:04:10. > :04:17.have the right to hold the referendum. It is politically
:04:17. > :04:26.binding on the UK constitution. touched on the knock-on effects to
:04:26. > :04:32.Wales. How do you see a positive result affecting Wales? It would
:04:32. > :04:36.affect Wales and the whole concept of retaining the UK and that is
:04:36. > :04:41.something David Cameron and all the Unionist parties are concerned
:04:41. > :04:47.about it. You have to look up the whole make-up of politics and how
:04:47. > :04:52.we were potentially have a more centralised so -- system and how
:04:52. > :04:57.Our relationship with the UK government would work. The Scottish
:04:57. > :05:03.government would have a different set-up. It is all very exciting.
:05:03. > :05:13.They are for you. Independence is a road you would like to go down?
:05:13. > :05:17.course. That is other raison d'etre. That would also mean more powers
:05:17. > :05:22.for Wales. Plenty to talk about throughout the rest of the
:05:22. > :05:30.programme. Before we do that, we will find out what is happening in
:05:30. > :05:34.Cardiff Bay today. Morning. It promises to be a lively event this
:05:34. > :05:40.afternoon on the first Wednesday after the festive period. The
:05:40. > :05:45.thorny subject of school banding is due to come up. There was a lot of
:05:45. > :05:49.criticism about the new way the Welsh Government has gone about
:05:49. > :05:59.grading or ranking secondary schools in Wales. They accuse them
:05:59. > :06:03.
:06:03. > :06:11.of setting up time Pip -- tables in a different way. There will be an
:06:11. > :06:20.opposition debate by Plaid Cymru. Carl Sargeant will be speaking. It
:06:20. > :06:30.could be a proud day for Ken Skates, he won the ballot in terms of
:06:30. > :06:30.
:06:30. > :06:40.bringing forward backbencher debate. He will try to bring forward
:06:40. > :06:41.
:06:41. > :06:48.legislation on young people leaving care. Concerns will be aired about
:06:48. > :06:58.the economic renewal programme. Angela Burns will finish off with
:06:58. > :07:01.
:07:01. > :07:09.Aled ap Dafydd Phil descend there. You can find out more on our
:07:09. > :07:14.website. -- Aled ap Dafydd filled us in there. That is the menu for
:07:14. > :07:20.Cardiff Bay today. What is on the agenda at Westminster? Happy New
:07:20. > :07:24.Year. Good to see you again. Nice to see you back in our cubbyhole.
:07:24. > :07:32.We have some details about the proposed changes to the
:07:32. > :07:38.parliamentary boundaries. 10 fewer MPs at and constituency changes for
:07:38. > :07:44.the next election. When this idea was originally proposed, Labour and
:07:44. > :07:49.Plaid Cymru MPs talked about gerrymandering and a stitch-up that
:07:49. > :07:59.would harm non-Conservative parties in Wales. Now they have seen the
:07:59. > :08:00.
:08:00. > :08:09.details, I sense the outrage is more muted. You're still here talk
:08:09. > :08:16.of boundaries being put in constituencies. But there is a
:08:16. > :08:24.relief. A lot of high-profile MPs will be spared a bottle -- but the
:08:24. > :08:29.battle for selection in their seats. Lots of the seats that disappear,
:08:29. > :08:36.you can almost see natural retirements or the House of Lords
:08:36. > :08:41.as it is known here. We are 20 minutes away from the first Prime
:08:41. > :08:51.Minister's Questions of the year. It is a big day for all David
:08:51. > :08:57.Miliband -- for Ed Miliband. A very difficult time for him. There have
:08:57. > :09:00.been noises off from Labour Party activists about his performances as
:09:00. > :09:06.Leader of the Opposition and questions about whether he has got
:09:06. > :09:11.it. His poll rating is pretty dire at the moment. The moment he stands
:09:11. > :09:16.up, they will be a lot of cheers from the conservative side because
:09:16. > :09:22.at the moment, his poll rating suggests he is less popular than
:09:22. > :09:26.the Labour Party. He will say if you look at some of the issues,
:09:27. > :09:33.other parties are now talking about a high levels of executive pay and
:09:33. > :09:36.responsible capitalism, these are ideas he first highlighted. The
:09:36. > :09:44.problem is, as far as voters are concerned, he is not getting the
:09:44. > :09:50.credit for that. The governing parties here have now been moving
:09:50. > :09:55.all over his agenda. David Cameron is promising to look at some of
:09:55. > :10:00.these issues. If they are not hearing him saying it, he will
:10:00. > :10:06.never get the credit. There was a line in the Telegraph yesterday
:10:06. > :10:09.that Ed Miliband was like the woman who told the joke at a dinner party
:10:09. > :10:17.and nobody laughed until a man opposite the repeated it more
:10:17. > :10:27.loudly. It is hard for an opposition leader and the politics
:10:27. > :10:33.
:10:33. > :10:37.of government is so interesting, to get a hearing. He argues the
:10:37. > :10:43.election is still three and a half years away so he has time between
:10:43. > :10:51.now and then to get to the British people. We will see when he stands
:10:51. > :10:57.up. Cheryl Gillan may be the bookie's favourite to be the next
:10:57. > :11:02.Cabinet minister to resign. Is she still there? I would not go to the
:11:02. > :11:06.bookies and put money on her being the next person to resign of her
:11:06. > :11:10.own free will. There are indications that the high-speed
:11:10. > :11:14.rail link changes the government announced yesterday including a
:11:14. > :11:22.rather long tunnel through her constituency will actually be
:11:22. > :11:29.enough to buy off her opposition. The Transport Secretary said she
:11:29. > :11:36.now agreed this was the right brought with the right mediation to
:11:36. > :11:42.paraphrase what to sting Greening said. I put it this morning whether
:11:42. > :11:47.the Welsh secretary supported it but they are not answering yet.
:11:47. > :11:55.There's a lot of anger in the constituency about this project but
:11:55. > :12:04.it seems Cheryl Gillan can be more effective in making the changes are
:12:04. > :12:08.from inside the Cabinet. mentioned someone repeating a joke,
:12:08. > :12:18.and what do you do if you find yourself a whole -- in a whole, dig
:12:18. > :12:39.
:12:39. > :12:48.yourself a tunnel exit which Iraq Let us go over to Aled ap Dafydd it.
:12:48. > :12:55.The subject of a backbench debate today is tabled in the name of
:12:55. > :13:05.Angela Burns and it involves a whistle-blowing. What are your
:13:05. > :13:08.
:13:08. > :13:12.concerns? Huge concerns. There is a slight impression that it is about
:13:12. > :13:17.causing trouble. I have been an Assembly Member for not quite five
:13:17. > :13:21.years yet and I have seven cases on my books of people who have seen
:13:21. > :13:26.appalling wrongs and injustices and have tried to put them right within
:13:26. > :13:30.the framework they operate in and have been stonewalled, they have
:13:30. > :13:37.lost their jobs and income and ability to earn money in their
:13:37. > :13:41.chosen field. They have lost confidence and have been persecuted
:13:41. > :13:46.essentially for standing up and doing the right thing. You talk
:13:46. > :13:50.about the framework in place. The Auditor-General has some powers but
:13:50. > :13:54.the Auditor-General bases his decision on whether or not to
:13:54. > :14:01.investigate and whether it is an effective use of resources in the
:14:01. > :14:08.public interest. Does that give the Auditor-General enough powers?
:14:08. > :14:14.That is way down the road. I am talking about cases where people
:14:14. > :14:17.have gone to the police, social services, the children's
:14:17. > :14:22.commissioner or their Assembly Member to try to prevent or stop
:14:22. > :14:26.something awful from happening. They have been unable to achieve
:14:26. > :14:31.any of that because none of us have the powers to step in and prevent
:14:31. > :14:37.an abuse. Do you accept there is a difference between people who are
:14:37. > :14:41.voicing legitimate concerns and people who are making frivolous
:14:41. > :14:46.complaints or might have a vendetta against an employer? I totally
:14:46. > :14:49.agree with that. The kind of cases I have looked at and I bring
:14:49. > :14:55.forward are ones with these people have been proven right. All the
:14:55. > :15:01.agencies after the event, but they still have no recourse. We are
:15:01. > :15:04.asking people to do the right thing. To stand up and be counted. Go out
:15:04. > :15:10.there into your employment and be counted. We need to stand forward
:15:10. > :15:20.and say this is wrong, there is no one to support them. That is a real
:15:20. > :15:22.
:15:22. > :15:29.concern and it affects an enormous A colleague of yours has accused
:15:29. > :15:35.others of acting like a Mafia don a Mathur, D you agree? This is not a
:15:35. > :15:39.political issue. This is ensuring that we as a society have a moral
:15:39. > :15:44.obligation to stand behind somebody who identify is wrong doing. We
:15:44. > :15:49.should help them put it right, or if we are an able to do that, up
:15:49. > :15:53.when they it then have their life fall apart after words, then we
:15:53. > :15:59.help them pick that life back up. This is about all governments
:15:59. > :16:07.throughout the world, in my opinion, it having the balls to stand behind
:16:07. > :16:12.you or me or anybody else trying to do the right thing. The final
:16:12. > :16:18.whistle has blown on us. Thank you for joining us.
:16:18. > :16:19.Still to come on am.pm we will be going live to the House of Commons
:16:20. > :16:24.for Prime Minister's Questions at midday.
:16:24. > :16:32.A Valleys MP is stepping up his campaign to change Welsh regional
:16:32. > :16:38.rugby. The Labour MP for Pontypridd believes the current structure of
:16:38. > :16:42.teams in Llanelli, Swansea and Cardiff without a professional side
:16:42. > :16:46.to support. He has commissioned a study on the feasibility of
:16:46. > :16:52.creating a new top flight team representing the South Wales
:16:52. > :16:59.Valleys. He has been speaking to our reporter, Adrian Browne.
:16:59. > :17:04.What is wrong with regional rugby? It is an alien concept. We are a
:17:04. > :17:11.rugby nation that has been predicated on clubs for the last
:17:11. > :17:16.130 years. Regional rugby, I think lots of us always felt at walls --
:17:16. > :17:20.felt it was something that did not fit with Wales all in tune with our
:17:20. > :17:26.history, tradition or culture. Those of us that felt that have
:17:26. > :17:30.been borne out by people failing to buy into it. What's more, it has
:17:30. > :17:36.never been truly regional. It has not embrace the wider region. It
:17:36. > :17:41.has been based on city clubs in Cardiff, Newport, Swansea and
:17:42. > :17:46.Llanelli. So it does not work. People have not bought into it and
:17:46. > :17:50.I don't think it is here for the long term. The time is right for us
:17:50. > :17:56.to think about trying to reform it and capitalise on the great passion
:17:56. > :18:01.we have for rugby right across south Wales, but in the Valleys in
:18:01. > :18:05.particular. We in the valleys are utterly disenfranchised. We do not
:18:05. > :18:10.have the professional side to support. In places like Pontypridd,
:18:10. > :18:14.there is a deep feeling that it is unfair, undemocratic and it does
:18:14. > :18:22.not play to the strength of the game. And you have lost your
:18:22. > :18:28.campaign, the latest age which is in a petition? We have, yes. 24
:18:28. > :18:35.hours into calling on a petition has not really worked. They ought
:18:35. > :18:39.to think again. 24 hours in we have had over 500 people signed. I am
:18:39. > :18:48.confident we will have thousands of signatures. We have had people from
:18:48. > :18:58.right across south Wales and north Wales. People from right across
:18:58. > :19:04.Wales. They have all signed it. Even the ex England prop signed it
:19:04. > :19:08.saying it is shameful that we do not have a valid his team all about
:19:08. > :19:13.his voice in rugby terms in Wales. There is a widespread recognition
:19:13. > :19:17.and now we are moving the campaign on. People are telling me we ought
:19:17. > :19:23.to step up the campaign and possibly hold a rally here at
:19:23. > :19:28.Sardis Road which is the National home of a valley is a region. I
:19:28. > :19:35.think we are now going to do that and take that perdition to WRU are
:19:35. > :19:38.soon as we can. If there is so much concern, and we are often hearing
:19:38. > :19:43.Welsh politicians stressed their commitment, why are they not
:19:44. > :19:47.talking about it? I don't think it is just me. Traditionally there has
:19:47. > :19:53.been a sense that sport and politics don't mix. I think that is
:19:53. > :19:56.a cliche and is completely wrong. If you tried saying that in France
:19:56. > :20:03.where local authorities really use the fact that they have good
:20:03. > :20:08.sporting facilities and first class suck -- first-class sports in their
:20:08. > :20:12.Locale as a stimulus for getting people to want to live, work and
:20:12. > :20:17.locate businesses in those areas, that is why politics should mix
:20:17. > :20:23.with sports. That is why local politicians need to understand that
:20:23. > :20:26.rugby in our area, in particular, could be a catalyst for social and
:20:26. > :20:35.economic regeneration. In particular that is true in the
:20:35. > :20:40.valleys. We have to wait up to that. Shouldn't you be working, perhaps,
:20:40. > :20:44.more collegiate the with the WRU. This is quite an aggressive public
:20:44. > :20:50.campaign. Might it not be more effective to do more behind-closed-
:20:50. > :20:56.doors? I am not interested in doing more behind closed doors. I think
:20:56. > :21:00.that is the public concern for this community. One of the things this
:21:00. > :21:08.community cares about his sport. One of the things this community
:21:08. > :21:13.most cares about in -- is a rugby. That sense that we have local
:21:13. > :21:17.heroes that ought to be playing on this pitch, we have people we want
:21:17. > :21:22.inspiring our youngsters and instilling a sense of pride and
:21:22. > :21:28.aspiration in this area. They should be our people on our pitch.
:21:28. > :21:33.They should be ballets come and does not people in Cardiff. All
:21:33. > :21:40.wear ever else people from this area have had to go and play.
:21:40. > :21:44.you get a Christmas card from the WRU? No, and I am not expecting one.
:21:45. > :21:49.A brave man taking on the WRU. We have had a statement saying they
:21:49. > :21:54.have told us they will always consider instructive and informed
:21:54. > :21:59.opinions are related to the future of Welsh rugby. Several months ago,
:21:59. > :22:04.Mr Smith informed the WRU that he will prepare a business plan for
:22:04. > :22:14.regional organisation status in the Pont de bred area. What do our
:22:14. > :22:16.
:22:16. > :22:20.guests think about this? -- upon to I have done a lot with Rugby League
:22:20. > :22:25.in Wales and obviously with football and I think there is a
:22:25. > :22:33.place for politics to make with sport but I would air on the side
:22:33. > :22:37.of all -- at Ayr on the side of caution. We do not want to have a
:22:37. > :22:41.pretend interest in sport just because constituents happen to like
:22:41. > :22:47.sport in the area. Heaven forbid. Am sure a politician would never
:22:47. > :22:52.dream of doing that. In your area, the Crusaders have had their ups
:22:52. > :22:57.and downs, haven't they? Is that something you would raise here if
:22:57. > :23:02.you had to? It has been an issue for the football club as well. Big
:23:02. > :23:08.issues with Wrexham FC surviving. Doing extremely well at the moment
:23:08. > :23:13.and hopefully we will beat Brighton next week, but you know, in reality
:23:13. > :23:18.I think the groundwork has to be done on the patch. It is all very
:23:18. > :23:25.well raising the issue in Westminster, but the big issue in
:23:25. > :23:28.north Wales is the fact that, apart from Wrexham, there is very little
:23:28. > :23:34.opportunity for people in North Wales to see first-class board.
:23:34. > :23:40.That is the issue I would raise. you want to see first passport, go
:23:40. > :23:46.and watch Rail FC. I will not question that. We will go back to
:23:46. > :23:52.our lead in the Oriel. The committees are also in session. You
:23:52. > :23:56.are going to talk about EU funding? Yes indeed. And no future we will
:23:56. > :24:02.be reliant on EU funding. It has had a big impact on poorer
:24:02. > :24:09.communities, but what should be the purpose of structural funds pose
:24:09. > :24:14.2013? That was the matter de Mai -- debated this morning. The
:24:14. > :24:18.federation for small businesses was giving evidence. What did you tell
:24:18. > :24:24.the committee this morning? We told the committee that they need to
:24:24. > :24:29.include business on every level of the planning and delivery. These
:24:29. > :24:33.funds are about engaging and developing business and increasing
:24:33. > :24:38.forgings and the economic value of Wales. If you are going to do that,
:24:38. > :24:42.it is important to engage with business. There have been
:24:42. > :24:46.criticisms with the way European money has or has not been spent.
:24:47. > :24:52.Some say we have not seen a net profit from the money. Is that a
:24:52. > :24:57.concern of yours? If we were using our structural funds well the first
:24:57. > :25:01.time round, we would not make them a second time. We know Wales
:25:01. > :25:06.economy it faces long-term problems and the global it economy is
:25:06. > :25:09.causing problems for us here, but nevertheless, if we had done the
:25:10. > :25:14.job the first or second time, we would not need funds a third time
:25:14. > :25:20.round. Are there any bureaucratic barriers in the way of companies
:25:20. > :25:25.Accessing structural funds? think so. We think the bureaucratic
:25:25. > :25:29.burden comes in the way of administration. The way we manage
:25:29. > :25:32.those funds needs to be done in a way that is business-friendly. The
:25:32. > :25:39.point made this morning is that businesses are getting their hands
:25:39. > :25:44.on some of this funding and there are intermediate to projects. But
:25:44. > :25:49.our major concern is when we talk about one thing out on the end,
:25:49. > :25:55.that businesses are getting what they need and deserve, bureaucracy
:25:55. > :26:00.is a problem. It has to be the servant not the master. Some people
:26:00. > :26:07.have raised concerns that the outcome of the last European summit
:26:07. > :26:12.will have a knock on effect that Wales will, through United Kingdom,
:26:12. > :26:16.will not be represented at the top table when it comes to discussions
:26:16. > :26:22.and that could lead to a cash shortfall coming to Wales. Is that
:26:22. > :26:26.a concern? We do not want to see it Wales or the wider economy
:26:26. > :26:32.marginalised within Europe. We have to accept that whatever your
:26:32. > :26:35.political stance is, Wales is part of Europe. We trade there, do
:26:35. > :26:42.business there and it is important we have discussions at the top
:26:42. > :26:48.table. Thank you very much. Before we go to Prime Minister's
:26:48. > :26:52.Questions, a quick chat with our guests. David Cornock gave us a few
:26:52. > :26:56.pointers, dignity? Let's concentrate on Ed Miliband. TUC
:26:56. > :27:01.today as an important Prime Minister's Questions for him after
:27:01. > :27:07.what happened over the weekend? think he has entered a critical
:27:07. > :27:15.period. There is something going on. He probably would not call it a
:27:15. > :27:19.relaunch, but that is the reality of the situation. They are
:27:19. > :27:24.struggles ongoing within the Labour Party regarding whether they go to
:27:24. > :27:29.plan B or not. Defence secretary Jim Murphy suggesting that they
:27:29. > :27:33.would have to stick with the same spending plan as the coalition
:27:33. > :27:37.government. This seems to be a big issue at that Labour have not
:27:37. > :27:43.sorted out what they are doing. I think Ed Miliband is stuck in the
:27:43. > :27:49.middle. We also discussed with David the Scottish issue. That is
:27:49. > :27:58.bound to come up, isn't it? I can't believe that it would not come up
:27:58. > :28:02.with all of the attention in the press. Nick Sturgeon has been
:28:02. > :28:07.defending a Scotland's rights and I think that should be on the agenda.
:28:07. > :28:10.I am not sure how Ed Miliband would approach the subject because I am
:28:10. > :28:17.sure he would agree with DEC it Cameron that the union should be
:28:17. > :28:22.retained. Lots of Labour MPs in Scotland, of course. Of course. So
:28:22. > :28:25.they will be thinking about their jobs. On the idea of the Scottish
:28:25. > :28:31.independence, if you look across the House of Commons, there are not
:28:31. > :28:36.many that would be in favour of it, are there? Maybe three of your
:28:36. > :28:39.Plaid Cymru colleagues and some of the SNP. Some of the members
:28:39. > :28:44.potentially from the north of Ireland although we know that sin
:28:44. > :28:48.Fein do not sit at Westminster. But I think it is important that MPs
:28:48. > :28:53.are not totally up with the discussion on independence for them
:28:53. > :28:58.to hear the debate and understand what happens outside of their own
:28:58. > :29:03.borders and their own issues. I think that it will be something we
:29:03. > :29:06.will all find interesting. David Cameron had to apologise over the
:29:06. > :29:13.weekend for a jibe he made at Ed Balls suggesting that he was like
:29:13. > :29:17.somebody that had to Lorette. Do you think maybe a toning down of Ed
:29:17. > :29:22.Balls's hand gestures to they? sure he will have had advice over
:29:22. > :29:28.the weekend, but the reality is, he was misplaced and hopefully will
:29:28. > :29:32.get down to debate rather than personal slanging matches. And we
:29:32. > :29:39.had our First Minister's Questions of the year yesterday. That was
:29:39. > :29:45.quite feisty, wasn't it? Carwyn Jones described Plaid Cymru as an
:29:45. > :29:50.old banger that had broken down. When you get personal like that,
:29:50. > :29:56.you can always tell that they are losing the argument and Colin joked
:29:56. > :30:02.me is to show more stature in his dealings with their economy. He
:30:02. > :30:06.knows his stuff. I think the fact that no letter has been written
:30:06. > :30:16.regards to the economy to the UK government to say and a lot to and
:30:16. > :30:28.
:30:28. > :30:38.We will head over to Westminster now. This is the end of questions
:30:38. > :30:43.and they are discussing the Scottish referendum. The honourable
:30:43. > :30:53.gentleman's questions go through the honourable gentleman in this
:30:53. > :30:54.
:30:54. > :30:59.House. Questions to the Prime I am sure the whole House would
:30:59. > :31:04.wish to join me in paying tribute to the servicemen who have fallen
:31:04. > :31:14.in the service of our country since we last met. Captain Tom Jennings,
:31:14. > :31:15.
:31:15. > :31:19.Squadron Leader and Anthony Downing, private John King, and of the
:31:19. > :31:27.riflemen from the Royal kickers who died after a long period in
:31:27. > :31:31.hospital. -- did workers. Their coverage and selflessness will not
:31:31. > :31:36.be forgotten. They have made our country more secular and our
:31:36. > :31:45.thoughts should be with their families and loved ones. I have
:31:45. > :31:50.been meeting ministerial colleagues and others this morning. The whole
:31:50. > :31:59.House would wish to associate itself with the tribute. Can I ask
:31:59. > :32:05.the Prime Minister to join with me in congratulating and Investment in
:32:05. > :32:10.stating -- in creating a state of the at facility in my constituency.
:32:10. > :32:15.More than 12 and the people are now employed in that facility.
:32:15. > :32:22.Unfortunately, the food standards agency is blocking exports from
:32:22. > :32:32.this excellent plant to the Far East. Can the Prime Mr a shower me
:32:32. > :32:34.
:32:34. > :32:44.that job destroying unnecessary -- the Prime Minister assured me that
:32:44. > :32:48.
:32:48. > :32:55.unnecessary bureaucracy can be dealt with? I will do everything I
:32:55. > :33:05.can to help resolve the situation. I am happy to ask the Minister from
:33:05. > :33:11.
:33:11. > :33:16.their fry-up to meet with me on the situation. -- D E F R A. They would
:33:16. > :33:26.agree with the premise or in paying tribute to look the fallen
:33:26. > :33:28.
:33:28. > :33:34.servicemen. All of them showed enormous courage and bravery. They
:33:34. > :33:38.made sacrifices on our behalf and our deepest condolences go to their
:33:38. > :33:44.families and friends. The Chancellor said in the Autumn
:33:44. > :33:51.Statement that train fares would only go up by 1% over inflation.
:33:51. > :34:01.Why have rail companies increase their fares by up to 11%? The power
:34:01. > :34:02.
:34:02. > :34:08.was given to them to do that by the last Labour government. No, Mr
:34:09. > :34:14.Speaker, the Prime Minister is wrong. The last Labour government
:34:14. > :34:24.stopped them doing that and his Prime Minister, when he came to
:34:24. > :34:25.
:34:25. > :34:33.office, a reverse that policy. That is why the companies are able to
:34:33. > :34:39.increase the fares. Will he now stand up to the train companies and
:34:39. > :34:42.get a better deal for commuters and change his policy? I know the
:34:42. > :34:47.honourable gentleman had a difficult start to the year, but he
:34:47. > :34:55.made it worse by getting it wrong. Labour allowed fare increases of up
:34:55. > :35:01.to 11% in 2009 because they introduced this idea of the
:35:01. > :35:10.flexibility of 5%. What was the case in 2009 is the case today. The
:35:11. > :35:20.key issue is there are only two places money can come for the rail
:35:20. > :35:24.companies. Either the taxpayer or the passengers. We are electrifying
:35:24. > :35:30.the Great Western main line and we're Electa find the line between
:35:30. > :35:36.Manchester and Liverpool. We are putting money into CrossRail and we
:35:36. > :35:40.are building a high-speed railway as well. The Prime Minister is
:35:40. > :35:44.wrong about that fact. The last Labour government so the train
:35:44. > :35:49.companies were taking advantage of consumers, ripping them off buy
:35:49. > :35:54.increasing fares on the busiest routes and we stopped it. We took a
:35:54. > :36:01.way that power. He came to office and brought the power back. He made
:36:01. > :36:05.the wrong decision. As for the idea this is to help the passenger, the
:36:05. > :36:13.National Audit Office or the last month warned the problem was this
:36:13. > :36:22.money will probably lead to an increase for train operating
:36:22. > :36:32.companies. Can he reverse the policy? We originally set out a
:36:32. > :36:33.
:36:33. > :36:37.policy with 3%. We looked at reducing debt to 1%. Presumably, he
:36:37. > :36:44.supports the electrification of the Great Western rail line and the
:36:44. > :36:47.railway lines in the north-west. He will be touring the country saying
:36:47. > :36:56.he supports these things but she is never prepared to take difficult
:36:56. > :37:01.decisions to support them. It is time... The answers from the Prime
:37:01. > :37:06.Minister will be heard. It is time for him to listen to his Defence
:37:06. > :37:12.Secretary who wrote over Christmas there is a difference between
:37:12. > :37:19.populism and popularity. That his credibility. It is time to have
:37:19. > :37:26.that. He should get his facts right about his own policy. He is just
:37:26. > :37:32.along. He says he is continuing the policy of the last Labour
:37:32. > :37:34.government. He is simply wrong on that fact. The last Labour
:37:34. > :37:38.government saw what the train companies were doing and put an end
:37:38. > :37:46.to it. The Prime Minister said at the weekend he wanted to take
:37:46. > :37:54.action against crony capitalism. He has failed -- failed at the first
:37:54. > :38:00.hurdle. Will he reversed the policy? We are now on to the issue
:38:00. > :38:05.of people's pay. On the issue of the rail fares, let me declare
:38:05. > :38:11.Labour into does the policy of 5% flexibility. They changed it for
:38:11. > :38:20.one year only, the election year, with no intention of making it
:38:20. > :38:27.permanent. If he does not know that, he should. If he wants to get on to
:38:27. > :38:36.the issue of executive pay, he is untied -- entirely the right to
:38:36. > :38:43.raise this issue. Order. I want to hear the answer. Order. Order.
:38:43. > :38:47.However long it takes, I will. is right to raise the issue of
:38:47. > :38:57.executive pay and unlike the last government would did nothing for 13
:38:57. > :39:05.
:39:05. > :39:11.I understand my right honourable friend has given one present and I
:39:11. > :39:15.am about to ask for another. My constituents on the Kent Coast line
:39:15. > :39:22.have been paying up to 10% increases under the last Labour
:39:23. > :39:29.government for the last four years. Mr Speaker, in congratulating this
:39:29. > :39:37.Government against -- in its courageous decision to pursue high
:39:37. > :39:46.speed railway, can ask him to tackle unfinished business. The
:39:46. > :39:49.high-speed railway only runs a certain way. Can it be extended?
:39:49. > :39:53.Can I congratulate my right honourable friend on his well
:39:53. > :39:57.deserved honour for his service for many years for his constituents. He
:39:57. > :40:02.is right about what has happened under the last government where
:40:02. > :40:07.regulated fares went up by 18% and unregulated fares went up by more
:40:07. > :40:16.than 23%. At the issue of the first high-speed railway, I will look at
:40:16. > :40:25.it. But it is an advertisement for what you can get by linking up a
:40:25. > :40:30.high-speed railway and it helps to rebuild a stronger economy. Over
:40:30. > :40:35.80,000 pensioners in Liverpool only got �100 this winter following a
:40:35. > :40:39.government cut to winter fuel allowance. Will the Prime Minister
:40:39. > :40:46.adopt a Labour policy in ensuring energy companies put their elderly
:40:46. > :40:52.customers on to the cheaper tariff for gas and electricity? Rather
:40:52. > :40:58.like the leader of her party, there is an outbreak of amnesia on the
:40:58. > :41:02.Labour benches. We have kept the policy on the winter fuel allowance.
:41:02. > :41:12.We are meeting in for all the promises that she made and her
:41:12. > :41:14.
:41:14. > :41:18.party made about the winter fuel allowance. They introduced a higher
:41:18. > :41:26.payments only for election year but we have made them permanent.
:41:27. > :41:31.Prime Minister will have experienced the quality of nursing.
:41:31. > :41:36.What can you do to make sure that patients throughout the country get
:41:36. > :41:40.the highest possible of care throughout the NHS? I remember and
:41:41. > :41:49.will never forget the time I spent at the Royal Cornwall Hospital and
:41:49. > :41:54.the happy days I had there. We do have high standards of nursing care
:41:54. > :41:59.throughout the country. I do not think we're serving our
:41:59. > :42:09.constituents probably if we do not highlight the cases that do go
:42:09. > :42:10.
:42:10. > :42:18.wrong. It is incumbent on government to highlight best
:42:18. > :42:28.practice in the best hospitals. Let us copy those best practices across
:42:28. > :42:34.
:42:34. > :42:41.the country. I went to ask the Prime Minister about Scotland. We
:42:41. > :42:44.on this side of the House believe in a United Kingdom and that it
:42:44. > :42:48.benefits the people of Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom in
:42:48. > :42:53.equal measure. We are stronger together and weaker apart. Does the
:42:53. > :42:57.premise that agree with me that we must make the case of the Union,
:42:57. > :43:04.not simply against separatism but the positive case about the shared
:43:04. > :43:08.benefit to us all? The shared economic interest, the shared
:43:08. > :43:14.institutions like the NHS and our defence forces and the BBC and the
:43:14. > :43:19.shared values we hold together. am happy to say this is an area
:43:19. > :43:23.with the right honourable gentleman and I are in 100% agreement. I
:43:23. > :43:28.passionately believe in the future of our United Kingdom. We are
:43:28. > :43:34.strongly together. I am sad that we are even having this debate because
:43:34. > :43:38.I support the United Kingdom so strongly. Scotland voted for a
:43:38. > :43:45.separatist party at their parliamentary elections. The right
:43:45. > :43:49.thing to do is to make clear the legal position. We have made the
:43:49. > :43:53.offer that we will devolve the power to hold that referendum so
:43:53. > :43:57.that the referendum can be made in Scotland and held in Scotland. I
:43:57. > :44:04.look forward to having the debate because I think there has been too
:44:04. > :44:07.many in the SNP who are happy to talk about the process, the do not
:44:07. > :44:12.want to talk about the substance. I sometimes feel when I listen to
:44:12. > :44:17.them it is not a referendum they want but they never run them. It
:44:17. > :44:24.does have the debate and keep our country together. Can I agree with
:44:24. > :44:26.the Prime Minister and say this is not about a fate about process
:44:26. > :44:30.between the Westminster government and the Scottish government or
:44:30. > :44:35.between the British Prime Minister and the Scottish First Minister.
:44:35. > :44:39.The way to tackle that is to have immediate cross-party talks in
:44:39. > :44:42.Scotland about the issues of the timing of the referendum and the
:44:43. > :44:48.nature of the question and the vital involvement of the electoral
:44:48. > :44:53.commission. Disciplines are also agree with me that we need to to
:44:53. > :44:57.get beyond process and have the discussion about the substantive
:44:57. > :45:04.issues involved? This is an issue that our children and grandchildren
:45:04. > :45:08.will have to live with if we get it wrong. We need an inclusive debate
:45:08. > :45:13.on what the choices are and the benefits to Scotland of staying
:45:13. > :45:17.within the United Kingdom. On this issue, the people of our country
:45:17. > :45:26.deserve nothing less than serious debate about the benefits of the
:45:26. > :45:31.I think the right honourable gentleman is right on three points.
:45:31. > :45:36.I think it is important now that the SNP have come out and made more
:45:36. > :45:40.clear what it is they want to do. I am happy for the UK government to
:45:40. > :45:45.speak directly to the Scottish parliament and come to a conclusion
:45:45. > :45:52.about the best time and the best way to hold this referendum, but it
:45:52. > :45:56.must be clear, legal, decisive and fair. Those are the absolute keys.
:45:56. > :46:04.I absolutely agree with the right honourable gentleman. As soon as
:46:05. > :46:08.those are settled we need to get on to substance. As the honourable
:46:08. > :46:13.gentleman who are keen to leave the United Kingdom, I can't understand
:46:13. > :46:17.why they are keen to put of the question for so long. What action
:46:17. > :46:22.will the Prime Minister take to tackle the issue of forced marriage
:46:22. > :46:27.both in the UK and globally. think the honourable lady is right
:46:27. > :46:31.to raise this issue. We have taken some steps, as the last government,
:46:31. > :46:36.to crack down on the practice of forced marriage which tragically
:46:36. > :46:40.takes place in too many communities in our country. We are looking at
:46:40. > :46:48.the issue of whether we should take legal powers and make it a criminal
:46:48. > :46:50.offence. I am taking a personal issue with this defence as it is
:46:51. > :46:56.unacceptable for a civilised country like ours to have a
:46:56. > :47:00.barbaric practice. Nottinghamshire police said areas of deep
:47:00. > :47:06.deprivation and high crime levels and have ambitious crime reduction
:47:06. > :47:11.targets. H M I seek say that Nottingham is one of five forces
:47:11. > :47:17.facing the most difficult challenge him protecting thank -- front lines
:47:17. > :47:21.and cuts will effect that front line. Isn't it time to implement
:47:21. > :47:25.the formula to give my local force their resources they need. I will
:47:25. > :47:30.look carefully, but what I would say is that all police forces are
:47:30. > :47:38.making efficiencies. I would praise chief constables for the steps they
:47:38. > :47:42.are taking to deliver these reductions while still reducing
:47:42. > :47:48.crime levels. In terms of Nottingham, there are still 47
:47:48. > :47:51.officers in back office jobs. There are still trained officers working
:47:51. > :47:55.in her age are and corporate development. There is further work
:47:55. > :48:01.to be done to civilian eyes those parts of the force and make sure
:48:02. > :48:05.all officers are on their front line. Thank you Mr Speaker.
:48:05. > :48:12.Following the murder of my constituent by a former partner and
:48:12. > :48:15.a rapist, I presented a bail Amendment Bill to this house. In
:48:15. > :48:19.October, the justice team agree to change the law. Could the Prime
:48:20. > :48:25.Minister confirm to the house and to Jane's parents who are in the
:48:25. > :48:28.gallery today, when that will happen. First of all, can I pay
:48:28. > :48:35.tribute to my honourable friend for the word he has done on this issue
:48:35. > :48:38.and on this case. Our sympathies go out to the family who have suffered.
:48:38. > :48:42.The government accepts they should be a right of appeal against Crown
:48:42. > :48:46.Court decisions allowing bail. There is that right in magistrates'
:48:46. > :48:51.court so there is a strong case for changing the law and we will be
:48:51. > :48:56.tabling an amendment in a change creating a right of appeal to High
:48:56. > :49:01.Court judge against the grant of bail by a Crown Court. I hope this
:49:01. > :49:06.will improve the law, be more helpful to victims and give
:49:06. > :49:11.satisfaction to the family he is representing so well. The Scottish
:49:11. > :49:14.government was elected with an overwhelming mandate to deliver an
:49:14. > :49:23.independence referendum in the second half of the parliamentary
:49:23. > :49:28.term. It is a fact. In contrast, the Conservative Party has less
:49:28. > :49:32.Members of Parliament than there are giant pandas in Edinburgh Zoo.
:49:32. > :49:38.Why is the prime minister trying to emulate Margaret Thatcher by
:49:38. > :49:42.dictating to Scotland? Quite the opposite. We want to give to
:49:42. > :49:46.Scotland the power to hold a legal referendum. That is the power that
:49:46. > :49:51.we are giving and right across this house, there is uniform believe
:49:51. > :49:54.that that needs to happen. So discussions can now be entered into
:49:54. > :49:59.about the timing of the referendum, the precise nature of the
:49:59. > :50:05.referendum and to make sure it is fair, decisive, the people of
:50:05. > :50:09.Scotland deserve nothing less. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Care of our
:50:09. > :50:18.older people are ill is one of the most pressing issues in the country
:50:18. > :50:22.today. Will the Prime Minister join me in welcoming eight UK's care in
:50:22. > :50:27.crisis campaign. And while he admits that the White Paper in
:50:27. > :50:32.spring or present a real way forward? I pay tribute to my friend
:50:32. > :50:36.that Europe -- to my honourable friend. I think we have a huge
:50:36. > :50:40.challenge to rise to this agenda and we want to do so through this
:50:41. > :50:46.white paper. There are three elements, we have to do something
:50:46. > :50:51.about the rising cost of domicile care. Improve the care that people
:50:51. > :50:55.receive. Address the issue of people having to sell their homes
:50:55. > :51:02.and assets to pay for care. We are looking hard at these issues and
:51:02. > :51:07.working out a way forward that will be right for the care system.
:51:07. > :51:16.the Sunday Times showed that in the last two years the 1000 richest
:51:16. > :51:21.people in Britain got richer by �137 billion, enough to pay off the
:51:21. > :51:26.entire deficit, will he therefore tax them to fund the creation of 1
:51:26. > :51:31.million jobs which have up far better way of cutting the deficit
:51:31. > :51:36.then prolonged austerity. For a minute I thought he was talking
:51:36. > :51:40.about a Prime Minister he served under. Of course I think it is
:51:40. > :51:45.essential to reduce the deficit and take difficult decisions while
:51:45. > :51:49.being fair. The fact is, what we have done so far is show the top
:51:49. > :51:54.10% of the country are paying 10 times more than the bottom per
:51:54. > :51:59.Saint of the country. The top percent on not only paying more in
:51:59. > :52:06.cash terms, but as a percentage of their income. As we go ahead, I
:52:06. > :52:10.want to make sure that people behave responsibly. I'm sure both
:52:10. > :52:16.you and the Prime Minister will want to congratulate Mr Tony
:52:16. > :52:23.wattling he served as postmaster far over 60 years and has still not
:52:23. > :52:29.retired and is carrying on, however, people are being let down by no
:52:29. > :52:36.post office out reach. Will the Prime Minister encouraged the Post
:52:36. > :52:39.Office to ensure all rural villages are served. I certainly join my
:52:39. > :52:43.honourable friend it in paying tribute to Mr what length. To run
:52:43. > :52:48.the Post Office for 60 years is a huge achievement and it is people
:52:48. > :52:53.like that but keep the country going. The government has committed
:52:53. > :52:58.�1.3 billion to improve the network. As a condition, the Post Office
:52:58. > :53:03.must maintain 11,500 branches, but I think the point she makes about
:53:03. > :53:11.mobile post offices is a good one. It is a way to serve many more
:53:11. > :53:16.communities. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Deputy Prime Minister is
:53:16. > :53:21.reported to have said in the last few days, that in due course, the
:53:21. > :53:26.United Kingdom will sign up to the same EU treaty that the Prime
:53:26. > :53:33.Minister rejected only a short time ago. Was the Deputy Prime Minister
:53:33. > :53:39.correct? The position is very straightforward, we did not... We
:53:39. > :53:43.did not sign the treaty because we were not, we did not get the
:53:43. > :53:47.safeguards that we received an so that situation is not going to
:53:47. > :53:53.change. What coalition partners want to put in their manifesto for
:53:53. > :53:58.the next election is up to them. Does the Prime Minister agree that
:53:58. > :54:03.people should pay their taxes, keep their businesses on the shore and
:54:03. > :54:08.not live as tax exile's leaving pensioners high and dry? What is
:54:08. > :54:13.the Prime Minister doing to stamp out predatory practices? For all
:54:13. > :54:17.the lectures about predatory capitalism and saying we have to
:54:17. > :54:21.tax the thumb businesses, the 1% that the leader of the opposition
:54:21. > :54:31.has chose to advise him on this issue, bases all of his companies
:54:31. > :54:33.in the British Virgin Islands! Prime Minister, the funding for the
:54:33. > :54:36.UK resource centre for women in science, engineering and technology
:54:36. > :54:42.has been cut. Given there are 1 million women unemployed and women
:54:42. > :54:47.make up 1.3% of people in science and technology, could the Prime
:54:47. > :54:52.Minister look again at spending and thereby restore Britain as a
:54:52. > :55:00.leading role for science that nurtured the talents of Dorothy
:55:00. > :55:06.Hodgkin. I'll certainly look in the case. And she knows, despite making
:55:06. > :55:10.difficult decisions, we did not cut the science budget and in the
:55:10. > :55:13.Autumn Statement, the Chancellor provided a series of enhance month
:55:13. > :55:19.a science-based projects. I will look at the specific one mentioned
:55:19. > :55:23.and get back to her. To date, unfortunately, is the 10th
:55:23. > :55:28.anniversary of the opening of Guantanamo Bay. The despicable
:55:28. > :55:33.institution which still holds one UK National. Will the Prime
:55:33. > :55:39.Minister commit to do all he can to see that 2012 is the last year that
:55:39. > :55:44.this institution operates? My right honourable friend is working hard
:55:44. > :55:49.to try and secured this issue and bring this chapter to a close. As
:55:49. > :55:52.he will know, we have also taken steps as a country to try and
:55:52. > :55:57.achieve some closure about what happened in the past by a
:55:57. > :56:01.settlement with those people who were in Guantanamo Bay and also
:56:01. > :56:06.setting up a proper enquiry to make sure that the British government
:56:06. > :56:12.was not complicit in any way in terms of torture to those people in
:56:12. > :56:17.Guantanamo Bay or elsewhere. Thank you, Mr Speaker. A moment ago the
:56:17. > :56:21.Prime Minister was clear that it is due -- crucial that policy is fair
:56:21. > :56:26.and seen to be fair. Can the Prime Minister confirm that the 50% tax
:56:26. > :56:30.rate on incomes above the hundred and �50,000 will remain in place
:56:30. > :56:34.for the duration of this Parliament? We take the same point
:56:34. > :56:39.of view as the shadow chancellor, former shadow Chancellor when he
:56:39. > :56:43.introduced it be said it should be a temporary measure. We should also
:56:43. > :56:47.take a judgment on how much money this tax is raising. The purpose is
:56:47. > :56:56.to raise money for funds to put into public services and it is
:56:56. > :57:02.important that we look into it in practice. Would the Prime Minister
:57:02. > :57:06.congratulate the Secretary of Transport and the good workers for
:57:06. > :57:10.securing the �188 million contract on 28th December and the
:57:10. > :57:14.announcement on the Toronto stock exchange that was so important to
:57:14. > :57:19.the workers in Derbyshire? congratulate everyone for winning
:57:19. > :57:23.the contract. As I have said before, I want the government to be a good
:57:23. > :57:27.customer of British firms and work with its supply chain and not make
:57:27. > :57:34.mistakes at the last government made that drew up the contract for
:57:34. > :57:39.the railway service which bum by DEA did not win. Mr Speaker, the
:57:39. > :57:44.Prime Minister will be aware that the chief executive of the Stock
:57:44. > :57:48.Exchange 100 company is paid 35 times as much as a hospital
:57:48. > :57:53.consultant who saves lives. If he is going to act tough on higher pay,
:57:53. > :57:59.can he give a date within the lifetime of this Parliament when we
:57:59. > :58:02.will see that obscene 35 times multiple come tumbling down? On the
:58:02. > :58:09.issue of pay ratio, I think we should make progress on the issue
:58:09. > :58:14.of pay re issued -- pay ratio. We can start with the government
:58:14. > :58:17.outlining its own pay ratio by cutting ministers' pay and freezing
:58:17. > :58:22.them and by having total transparency across government full
:58:22. > :58:27.pay. On the issue of the specific case, the bond I would make is this,
:58:27. > :58:32.this year we have seen a 49% increase in pay and yet and only 4%
:58:32. > :58:37.increase in the FTSE. I am not against people running great
:58:37. > :58:41.companies if they are growing and expanding and succeeding. What we
:58:41. > :58:48.should not have its rewards for failure. Frankly the last
:58:48. > :58:52.government had 13 years to deal with this and did sweet nothing.
:58:52. > :59:00.Does the Prime Minister think that it can ever be fair for a single
:59:00. > :59:03.family to receive �100,000 per year in housing benefit alone? I think
:59:03. > :59:08.my honourable friend makes an important point. The top people's
:59:08. > :59:13.pay issue and this issue are linked. We need to get rid of a something
:59:13. > :59:17.for nothing culture in this country because we inherited and out of
:59:17. > :59:22.control benefits system way you did get family is on tens of thousands
:59:22. > :59:25.of housing benefit, and how to control immigration system where it
:59:25. > :59:29.paid to cheat and and out of control banking system where reward
:59:29. > :59:34.was not linked his success. We are going to deal with all of those
:59:35. > :59:40.things. Prime Minister, the Cumbrian healthy economy is in
:59:40. > :59:45.crisis, real crisis. How does he propose to deal with it? The first
:59:45. > :59:49.and most important thing is that we are committed to year-on-year
:59:49. > :59:54.increases in NHS spending. That is not a position backed by his own
:59:54. > :59:59.party. Alongside the extra money, we need to make sure there is
:59:59. > :00:03.reform so that we give clinicians a leading role and frankly, we have
:00:03. > :00:08.to do more on the Public Health Promotion agenda because that is
:00:08. > :00:12.the best way to reduce demands on our NHS. There is one extra thing
:00:13. > :00:16.and that is looking at the links between alcohol and crime and
:00:17. > :00:26.alcohol and hospital admissions which is putting massive pressure
:00:27. > :00:31.
:00:32. > :00:37.on our NHS. It is an issue I want The ethnic cleansing and apartheid
:00:37. > :00:40.are evil. Sadly, successive governments have supported a
:00:40. > :00:50.country where these file actions are inflicted on the indigenous
:00:50. > :00:53.
:00:53. > :01:03.people. We welcome the Arabs bring up the long Arab winter continues -
:01:03. > :01:09.
:01:09. > :01:14.- Arab spring. Is it not time we took action against Israel as we
:01:14. > :01:18.did against apartheid South Africa? We should respect the fact that
:01:18. > :01:22.Israel is a democracy, a country that has a right to exist and has
:01:22. > :01:27.frequently been threatened by its neighbours. We are also a country
:01:27. > :01:31.that should stand up for Clear human rights and clear rights and
:01:31. > :01:36.wrongs in international relations. This government has been very clear
:01:36. > :01:39.that it does not agree with the practice by the Israeli government.
:01:39. > :01:48.I have raised this issue myself with the Israeli Prime Minister in
:01:48. > :01:56.a telephone call and will continue to act and vote on the issue of
:01:56. > :02:01.illegal Israeli settlements. constituent of mine has leukaemia.
:02:01. > :02:07.Despite an incredible campaign by her family to get more people to
:02:07. > :02:11.join the blood stem cell register, she still does not have a match and
:02:11. > :02:19.has to look overseas. What can the government do to raise public
:02:19. > :02:26.awareness about this issue? I think the honourable lady is right to
:02:26. > :02:30.speak up for Bethany specifically and all bone marrow sufferers. We
:02:30. > :02:34.need to get more people on the register because the importance of
:02:34. > :02:38.getting a match was at the government will be spending about
:02:38. > :02:47.�4 million this year to help promote that and make that happen.
:02:47. > :02:50.All of us in our own constituencies can promote the idea. Could I draw
:02:50. > :02:54.my right honourable friend's attention to the excellent paper
:02:54. > :02:59.published this morning which seems to build on the Government's
:02:59. > :03:09.initiatives in building up Cadet forces on the one hand and getting
:03:09. > :03:10.
:03:10. > :03:16.more former military personnel into schools as teachers. Military
:03:16. > :03:22.academies and free schools could be put into our poorest constituencies.
:03:22. > :03:27.Let me pay tribute to my honourable friend who does so much to speak up
:03:27. > :03:31.for an hour a reserve and cadet forces. It is worth noting that
:03:31. > :03:35.this year, the cadet forces would be doing a huge amount to try and
:03:35. > :03:42.save and preserve hour war memorials from the appalling crime
:03:42. > :03:45.they have been suffering in terms of metal theft. We should be
:03:45. > :03:51.empowering our cadet forces to expand and go into parts of the
:03:52. > :04:01.country where they have not always been present in the past. The link
:04:02. > :04:07.
:04:07. > :04:13.between cadet forces and schools is a good idea. My constituents is 32
:04:13. > :04:16.years of age, has lived alone for eight years and was forced on to
:04:16. > :04:26.housing benefit because of redundancy. That benefit has just
:04:26. > :04:29.
:04:29. > :04:39.been kept by nearly 15%. Does the Prime Minister believe the landlord
:04:39. > :04:49.
:04:49. > :04:59.will reduce the payment or that she will be made homeless? I praise her
:04:59. > :05:01.
:05:01. > :05:07.for her persistent efforts. Let me answer the question. All parties
:05:07. > :05:11.are committed to reform housing benefit. That was Labour's
:05:11. > :05:20.commitment before the last election for that the housing benefit system
:05:20. > :05:25.is out of control. What we have seen so far as housing benefit has
:05:25. > :05:35.been reformed and reduced is that we have seen rent levels come down.
:05:35. > :05:45.We have stopped dripping off the taxpayer. Sq -- stopped ripping off
:05:45. > :05:48.
:05:48. > :05:52.I feel we have spoken a lot about this already. Let us look at Ed
:05:52. > :05:56.Miliband's performance. He stood up for his first question and it
:05:56. > :06:02.seemed the Prime Minister gave him a bit of a slap down. The Prime
:06:02. > :06:05.Minister implied the rail charges had been something Labour had
:06:05. > :06:10.introduced while they were in power. They continued the questioning but
:06:10. > :06:16.it seemed it was not going anywhere because of that fact. Ed Miliband,
:06:16. > :06:24.unfortunately, is not doing so well at the moment. He really needs to
:06:24. > :06:34.raise his game. The pair of you did not seem very impressed with him.
:06:34. > :06:37.On a human level, did you think he was struggling? You would think,
:06:37. > :06:44.given there has been talk of a relaunch, he would have been
:06:44. > :06:51.prepared for this first appearance. In reality, he walked straight into
:06:51. > :06:56.where David Cameron wanted him to go. He did not recover. I have my
:06:56. > :07:00.own experience that politicians are human and they have feelings and
:07:00. > :07:06.you do feel for him. But it is difficult to see how he will
:07:06. > :07:11.recover. The Prime Minister did agree with Ed Miliband on the issue
:07:11. > :07:21.of Scottish independence. That is not a surprise. Maybe what is a
:07:21. > :07:31.surprise that although -- he did not put across the alternative view.
:07:31. > :07:32.
:07:32. > :07:42.Numbers wise it is difficult. In reality, you're the SNP, Plaid
:07:42. > :07:43.
:07:43. > :07:48.Cymru and maybe a few from Northern Ireland. You would have thought the
:07:48. > :07:54.Speaker would have ensured there was a balance on the issue. This
:07:54. > :07:58.could be important, if they went the SNP to think there is a
:07:58. > :08:08.listening here at Westminster that the SNP are given an opportunity to
:08:08. > :08:15.
:08:15. > :08:21.put that view across in the Chamber. He is trying to dictate when the
:08:21. > :08:26.referendum happens. It is not happening as soon as David Cameron
:08:26. > :08:31.would like it too. That undermines the whole concept of devolution and
:08:31. > :08:35.the SNP government, can you imagine if David Cameron said to Carwyn
:08:35. > :08:38.Jones you must hold the Welsh referendum on the state. The First
:08:38. > :08:43.Minister would say we will decide those things ourselves. That is
:08:44. > :08:51.something that needs to be aired and sorted before we have a further
:08:51. > :08:55.debate on independence. I did not accept Ed Miliband's stance that
:08:55. > :09:00.there should be an all-party meeting in Scotland. It is a matter
:09:00. > :09:04.for the Scottish government and the UK government. That is where the
:09:04. > :09:14.discussion needs to take place rather than a round table meeting
:09:14. > :09:18.between the parties. We're talking about a respect agenda. We can
:09:18. > :09:23.certainly see it is the case in Scotland as well. The government in
:09:23. > :09:29.London is struggling to manage its relationships with governments here
:09:29. > :09:33.and north of the border because they are not of the same party.
:09:33. > :09:41.is an issue about the whole devolution process. It is not a
:09:41. > :09:46.situation a UK government has been used to dealing with. That is part
:09:46. > :09:54.of the maturing that needs to take place. We need to come out of this
:09:54. > :09:58.with a more mature settlement where devolved administrations have
:09:58. > :10:08.responsibility. It is part of the growing pains that we have at the
:10:08. > :10:12.moment. It is very difficult because we have seen with the rail
:10:12. > :10:17.electrification the fact that Cheryl Gillan is getting a tunnel
:10:17. > :10:24.in here considered say and then questioned the benefits of Wales
:10:24. > :10:28.getting electrification here. This used to be more progressive
:10:28. > :10:36.dialogue between all of the nations of the United Kingdom. We need to
:10:36. > :10:41.make it work while it still exists. That is something David Cameron and
:10:41. > :10:45.the leaders of all parties need to consider for the future. They will
:10:45. > :10:48.be poring over everything we have said today. Coming up on the
:10:48. > :10:52.programme, the political map of Wales could change dramatically
:10:52. > :10:59.under proposals by the Boundary Commission for Wales. The number of
:10:59. > :11:03.MPs will be reduced by a quarter. It is time to go back to Aled ap
:11:03. > :11:11.Dafydd. It is not just the Welsh Government to can bring forward
:11:11. > :11:17.legislation. That possibility is also open to backbenchers. The
:11:17. > :11:21.first name out of the ballot backbencher is Ken Skates. He joins
:11:21. > :11:27.be now. Before we talk about the detail of your proposed legislation,
:11:27. > :11:34.what about the principle that allows backbenchers to put forward
:11:34. > :11:38.legislation? It is crucial vote democracy. It enables backbenchers
:11:38. > :11:44.to take part directly in the law- making process. It is a different
:11:44. > :11:50.way of working for you. You usually tend to scrutinise legislation that
:11:50. > :11:54.is being put forward by government. How different is it? He suddenly
:11:54. > :12:02.realise you're at the forefront of being scrutinised. It is a lot more
:12:02. > :12:12.work. The Assembly commission assigns officers to assist with
:12:12. > :12:16.legislation and so forth. There is a lot more work. Your proposed
:12:16. > :12:21.legislation is about ensuring children are looked after through
:12:21. > :12:25.the care system and beyond. Why did you pick that particular subject?
:12:26. > :12:30.At the moment, we allow some of the most vulnerable and damaged people
:12:30. > :12:35.to leave care to have virtually every aspect of their care and
:12:35. > :12:40.support gone at the age of 18. That is terrible for society. It comes
:12:40. > :12:44.at an enormous cost to the taxpayer because of the risk of looked after
:12:44. > :12:49.children then going on to become prisoners. There are 13 times more
:12:49. > :12:58.likely to go to prison. They are then more likely to reoffend and
:12:58. > :13:04.that costs the nation around �10 billion a year. It is important
:13:04. > :13:10.that we create a level playing field for look after children.
:13:10. > :13:14.would have thought that those who are in care would possibly want the
:13:14. > :13:24.-- would want to leave the care system as soon as they can. In
:13:24. > :13:28.
:13:28. > :13:35.which way will this help? It would not prevent care leavers leaving at
:13:35. > :13:41.the age of 18. If you leave at 16 and fine you cannot cope, there is
:13:41. > :13:50.no way of going back in. I have heard from so many 17 and 18 euros
:13:50. > :14:00.who are waiting for the care to be removed. There needs to be better
:14:00. > :14:01.
:14:01. > :14:11.support post 18. They need to enjoy life in the way most sentient or 18
:14:11. > :14:14.
:14:14. > :14:20.year-olds do. It is important to recognise the enormous amount of
:14:20. > :14:26.work that has been taken place in Wales in the last decade. A massive
:14:26. > :14:36.amount of work has gone into looked after children. Good work has been
:14:36. > :14:38.
:14:38. > :14:44.taking place in a local authorities. It is important to give the
:14:44. > :14:48.children the emotional support. those following your work through
:14:48. > :14:55.to its conclusion, can you outline the timetable for the framework?
:14:55. > :15:00.This will not be over in a week. It will take time. I am seeking
:15:00. > :15:04.approval from my colleagues in the Assembly to prep the bill. After
:15:04. > :15:08.that, it goes through a series of votes and scrutiny. It could be
:15:08. > :15:12.some length of time for that the important thing is that throughout
:15:12. > :15:22.this period, I am keen to make sure we have the voices of look after
:15:22. > :15:28.
:15:28. > :15:34.children coming through. At the end Now, the former Plaid Cymru MP has
:15:34. > :15:41.declared his support for an award to be the new party leader. Three
:15:41. > :15:45.other candidates up in the race to succeed Ieuan Wyn Jones. We spoke
:15:45. > :15:51.to Alan Price and asked him if his support for Leanne Wood was based
:15:51. > :15:56.on their friendship? Well, I am friendly with all of the candidates
:15:56. > :16:00.for Plaid Cymru leadership. Why I am particularly supporting Leanne
:16:00. > :16:05.is the passion and clear vision that she has for the future of
:16:05. > :16:10.Wales and I think she is a bridge builder. She is somebody that has
:16:10. > :16:15.the ability to communicate outside of our particular political tribe
:16:15. > :16:20.within our party and building new communities of support, new voters
:16:20. > :16:26.for Plaid Cymru as the party of Wales. We call ourselves the party
:16:26. > :16:32.of Wales, but here we have a leader that has the potential to build new
:16:32. > :16:37.support in every corner of our nation. You say that the status quo
:16:37. > :16:40.is not what Plaid Cymru needs in its new leader. Is that an
:16:40. > :16:47.indication that you think the other three candidates represent more of
:16:47. > :16:51.the same? Are a critical of the body politics. Politics as it is in
:16:51. > :16:57.Wales at the moment. We are supposed to be a radical country,
:16:57. > :17:01.but we are a country of small conservatism. We have a civil
:17:01. > :17:06.service that is anti- innovation. New ideas are seen as a threat in
:17:06. > :17:10.Wales. We have a Labour government that is the longest serving
:17:10. > :17:15.government in Western Europe outside of Luxembourg, yet where
:17:15. > :17:22.ever you look and compare Wales in terms of economic growth and
:17:22. > :17:26.education, we are falling further behind. We are already at the
:17:26. > :17:31.bottom of mini league tables. We need new ideas. The only way we
:17:31. > :17:38.will get them is there a new generation of politicians. That is
:17:38. > :17:43.what I see with Leanne. Her fight for the leadership is based on this
:17:43. > :17:48.concept of what she refers to as true independence. It is a very
:17:48. > :17:53.different concept to the one which the other three candidates might
:17:53. > :17:58.hold in terms of their views on independence. Is that going to
:17:58. > :18:08.hinder her approach to this leadership contest? Or is that
:18:08. > :18:11.
:18:11. > :18:16.something that distinguishes her? think that... I thought that the
:18:16. > :18:21.party had very clearly established its position on this. There have
:18:21. > :18:27.been several conference motions. I don't think it's a matter of debate
:18:27. > :18:31.any more. It does seem to be a matter of debate because we have a
:18:31. > :18:37.herd Daffyd Ellis Thomas say different things about independence
:18:37. > :18:43.compared to what Leanne would say. I think there is a philosophically
:18:43. > :18:48.coherent position which has been present in Plaid Cymru over many
:18:48. > :18:53.just a -- generations which does not like the word independence
:18:53. > :18:58.because in terms of interdependence, can you truly be independent? That
:18:58. > :19:02.is philosophically true, but we are in the world of nation-states and
:19:02. > :19:07.the question is, does Wales want to be one of them or does it want to
:19:07. > :19:12.be ruled by another? No country ever ruled another well and Wales
:19:12. > :19:17.is a perfectly good example of that the way that our economy was
:19:17. > :19:24.trashed over several generations. Femi, it is very simple. The only
:19:24. > :19:28.way we can transform our country is if we have our hands in Wales on
:19:28. > :19:34.the leaders of power that we need to create change. I think Leanne is
:19:34. > :19:38.very clear about that. The next few weeks he on am.pm we
:19:39. > :19:42.will hear from supporters of the other candidates and the candidates
:19:42. > :19:48.themselves in the race to take over from Ieuan Wyn Jones. Every
:19:48. > :19:53.constituency in Wales will change under the boundary commission. The
:19:53. > :19:59.boundaries will be redrawn into 30 areas to meet new rules that mean
:19:59. > :20:04.each must have 73,000 electors. Bethan Jenkins has been speaking to
:20:04. > :20:11.three MPs about the issue. As you can imagine, the proposal to
:20:11. > :20:15.cut the number of MPs from thought -- from 40 to 30 his concern to
:20:15. > :20:21.some members from this place. I have some members joining me to
:20:21. > :20:31.discuss the matter. Firstly, if I can start with you, quite a shake-
:20:31. > :20:35.up in terms of the borders in North Wales. This i is our large
:20:35. > :20:42.constituency is disappearing. Are you concerned? I don't think a
:20:42. > :20:48.single Welsh MP would not be concerned. In terms of constituency
:20:48. > :20:51.disappearing, the electorate have not disappeared. They just move to
:20:51. > :21:00.a newly formed constituency. The question we have to ask, is why
:21:00. > :21:05.they are being done. It is being done to try and ensure that we have
:21:05. > :21:12.the same size of the electorate. you think it is a good idea to
:21:12. > :21:16.change the electoral borders? view of what we are trying to
:21:16. > :21:21.achieve in having the same number of electorate in each constituency,
:21:21. > :21:25.that aim is something we should support. In Wales we currently have
:21:25. > :21:30.lower electorate and yet we have an assembly member taking up a lot of
:21:30. > :21:35.the work and we have 20 areas of policy where legislation is made in
:21:35. > :21:41.Cardiff. In that context, it is difficult to argue that Wales
:21:41. > :21:45.deserves higher representation. major casualty would be David
:21:45. > :21:52.Jones? David would say that the casualty it would be myself, we
:21:52. > :21:56.will see in due course. In terms of the accusations, I would argue that
:21:56. > :21:59.it looks like the Conservative Party comes off worse than Labour.
:21:59. > :22:04.I think it is bound to the fact that we have had the Labour Party
:22:04. > :22:09.saying it is an effort to help the at Conservative Party. He does not
:22:09. > :22:13.seem the case in Wales. Let's go to the Labour member. You will be in a
:22:13. > :22:19.tricky situation fighting against Jonathan Evans as your constituency
:22:19. > :22:28.will extend to Cardiff North. constituency will be buried in half.
:22:28. > :22:35.I may enter an internal party or go up to the southern part of my
:22:35. > :22:40.community. -- constituency. At this point, the message to get across is
:22:40. > :22:46.that Wales representation is Westminster is being reduced by 25%.
:22:47. > :22:51.The largest reduction anywhere in the United Kingdom. It is bad news
:22:51. > :22:57.for their Labour Party. We are being disproportionately hit hard.
:22:57. > :23:03.He would be losing MPs both in the north of Wales and in the Swansea
:23:03. > :23:08.get our area? It is difficult to say where exactly, but as far as
:23:08. > :23:14.Wells is concerned over all with the reduction of 40 down to 30,
:23:14. > :23:19.Wales will be adversely effected and disproportionately effected.
:23:19. > :23:23.Dear not think that it would make a fairer system to only have 30 MPs?
:23:23. > :23:26.I don't think so. This is an argument we have had in the past
:23:26. > :23:31.and the coalition has ram this through and it is bad news for
:23:31. > :23:35.Wales. I want to see Wales having strong representation in the United
:23:35. > :23:43.Kingdom and this piece of legislation will see a reduction.
:23:43. > :23:47.That is bad for Wales. Roger Williams, who do you side with?
:23:47. > :23:54.important thing is that uncertainty is over and we have proposals in
:23:54. > :23:59.front of us. We have to now engage with communities, papilla -- public
:23:59. > :24:02.services and businesses. It is going to take him to look the
:24:03. > :24:07.spring of 2013 until final proposals are there to make sure
:24:08. > :24:11.they are the best representation for Wales. I d believe that Wales
:24:11. > :24:17.has equality with England and Scotland now and that is important
:24:17. > :24:24.so that our representation is along the same lines. What about your own
:24:24. > :24:29.constituency? It is going to be made even bigger. When you reduce
:24:29. > :24:33.constituencies from 40 to 30, you will have larger constituency is in
:24:33. > :24:38.terms of geographical area and population, but the legislation
:24:38. > :24:42.sets out the maximum size of each constituency in the UK and actually,
:24:42. > :24:47.there is no constituency that will be bigger than a third of that
:24:47. > :24:51.maximum size. We do still want a fight that constituency if it is
:24:52. > :24:58.larger? It will be hugely attractive and I love representing
:24:58. > :25:03.rural areas so it remains a great attraction to me. One of the
:25:03. > :25:06.fundamental weaknesses in this legislation is in those communities.
:25:06. > :25:11.You have some bizarre configurations inevitably as a
:25:11. > :25:16.result of legislation. If you look at South Wales, there is a seed
:25:16. > :25:26.being suggested that extends from the north of the bally down to the
:25:26. > :25:30.Bristol tunnel. That makes no sense at all. Monster constituency, do
:25:30. > :25:33.you foresee that there will be opposition to these proposals?
:25:33. > :25:38.hope the people of Wales will engage with this process. There are
:25:38. > :25:42.some anomalies that need to be looked at, but they are still no
:25:42. > :25:48.bigger than constituencies in England. In terms of geographical
:25:48. > :25:53.area they are still smaller than some of Scotland. Wales, despite
:25:53. > :25:57.having a low Assembly, where we have an additional member helping
:25:57. > :26:04.on casework, we still believe we need higher representation than
:26:04. > :26:07.other parts of the UK. That is the fundamental mistake here. Thank you
:26:07. > :26:12.very much. A final chapter of our guests on
:26:12. > :26:17.the topic of boundaries. A lead, I will begin with you. A couple of
:26:17. > :26:24.them were talking about monster constituencies or constituents is
:26:24. > :26:28.that do not make sense. If you look at North Wales, there is a bizarre
:26:28. > :26:35.concoction in some constituencies. This idea of change is not a new
:26:35. > :26:40.one, is it? Nothing new at all. Before then we had constituencies
:26:40. > :26:44.which were brought together because of numbers so there is nothing new.
:26:45. > :26:48.What is important is that we have proposals in front of us. There
:26:48. > :26:54.will be opportunities for people to make representation within the
:26:54. > :27:00.usual rules. What we need to sort out now is getting through the
:27:00. > :27:06.period of uncertainty quickly. you had your Abacus out to
:27:06. > :27:10.calculate how this will effect Plaid Cymru representation? All of
:27:10. > :27:15.the anoraks are going through the month to see where we may lose out
:27:15. > :27:20.all gain. I take a more pragmatic view. We are regional members and
:27:20. > :27:26.we represent a large area of communities that are very different.
:27:26. > :27:28.We have to take a step back and we need to ensure that communities can
:27:28. > :27:34.still understand to their representatives are, where they can
:27:34. > :27:37.access them, but we also need to see if there are communities that
:27:37. > :27:41.have been arbitrarily broken off into other constituents is and how
:27:41. > :27:46.it will effect them. I think we just need to be more pragmatic
:27:46. > :27:50.about the whole affair, really. There was some talk this morning
:27:50. > :27:53.that the boundaries here in the assembly might be changing. The
:27:53. > :27:59.Wells office say that will be dealt with in due course, but he thing
:27:59. > :28:03.that should be looked at? It is undoubtedly the case where if
:28:03. > :28:07.Westminster boundaries are changed, it will be difficult where
:28:07. > :28:11.constituencies operate on a different level. Boundaries are a
:28:11. > :28:17.matter that are always under constant review. Whether it is
:28:17. > :28:21.county level, community level, this is an ongoing process where we need
:28:21. > :28:25.to ensure that the basis of representation is the same.
:28:25. > :28:30.terms of the boundary of your constituency, it is enormous at the
:28:30. > :28:34.moment, isn't it? As a regional member you do expect to have to
:28:34. > :28:39.travel from Bridgend down to the Gower and that is something that I
:28:39. > :28:44.welcome to do. We will leave it there. Thank you for all your time.
:28:44. > :28:51.That is it from the studio. And that is it on the Oriel as well,