11/07/2012

:00:29. > :00:33.Welcome to am.pm, our twice weekly look at what is going on in

:00:33. > :00:36.politics in Wales, the UK and sometimes beyond. Today, doctors'

:00:36. > :00:39.leaders put further pressure on health minister at seeing the

:00:39. > :00:44.controversial report into NHS reforms could be viewed as a

:00:44. > :00:47.cynical attempt to manipulate opinions. We will be at Prime

:00:47. > :00:51.Minister's Questions as questions are still being asked about the

:00:51. > :01:01.future of the House of Lords. I will be hearing about concerns over

:01:01. > :01:06.

:01:06. > :01:10.Normally joining me throughout the programme we would have two AMs so

:01:11. > :01:13.it is a busy day, we have only got one, Byron Davies. We will have a

:01:14. > :01:19.proper chat at the moment. We will begin with the row over the

:01:19. > :01:22.controversial report into reforms into the Welsh end -- Welsh NHS. We

:01:22. > :01:26.can Britain news that all three opposition parties have come

:01:26. > :01:30.together to table a motion of no confidence in the health minister.

:01:30. > :01:35.The British Medical Association has questioned the independence of the

:01:35. > :01:39.report into Welsh NHS reforms after it emerged the author contacted

:01:39. > :01:43.senior civil servants while writing it. It was claims emails between

:01:43. > :01:47.Marcus Longley and government officials showed a search for

:01:47. > :01:51.evidence to fit a predetermined conclusion. Liz Hurley Kravis has

:01:51. > :01:55.strongly denied that has been any - - Lesley Griffiths has strongly

:01:55. > :02:00.denied there has been any involvement. All three opposition

:02:00. > :02:06.parties, you have joined together, Oakley he read opposition to table

:02:06. > :02:10.this motion of no confidence -- a coherent opposition.

:02:10. > :02:17.Our job is to scrutinise. This is the only way we can effectively do

:02:17. > :02:23.There was an opportunity yesterday during First Minister's Questions,

:02:23. > :02:27.Lesley Griffiths made a statement, was then that -- was that not the

:02:27. > :02:31.appropriate place to scrutinise? didn't have all the answers. She

:02:31. > :02:37.avoided some of the answers so this is a real opportunity to scrutinise

:02:37. > :02:39.the government. Back to you in a moment. Earlier

:02:39. > :02:44.our political editor spoke to the Labour chair of the health

:02:44. > :02:48.committee. What do you make of the way the

:02:48. > :02:51.opposition parties are coming together and pushing ahead?

:02:51. > :02:55.I think the opposition parties are barking up the wrong tree. There is

:02:55. > :03:01.a serious discussion to be had about the future of health services

:03:01. > :03:05.in Wales. That is what we should be concentrating on. The rest of it is

:03:06. > :03:11.end-of- term it sound and fury and doesn't signify much battle.

:03:11. > :03:14.Cannot harm the health minister? All along they have done more harm

:03:15. > :03:18.to themselves. Some of the inflammatory language they have

:03:18. > :03:24.used, the ways in which if they have tried to raise this issue

:03:24. > :03:27.would be on the seriousness it has, has reflected far more badly on

:03:27. > :03:30.them. Could the government and Labour as

:03:30. > :03:35.a group had dealt with it better and not dismissed the claims as

:03:35. > :03:38.nonsense? It is difficult for the government

:03:38. > :03:42.when they are attacked in the weight they were from the very

:03:42. > :03:49.beginning. The opposition parties were not interested in a

:03:49. > :03:54.substantial discussion. Spokes people were taking to the airwaves

:03:54. > :03:56.on the attack and in the most inflammatory terms. You have got to

:03:56. > :04:00.put the government response in that context.

:04:00. > :04:05.Let's see what you make of that. Some strong words about the

:04:05. > :04:11.opposition, particularly Darren Millar, their health spokesman,

:04:11. > :04:15.Mark Davies said a lot of bluster signifying nothing barking up the

:04:15. > :04:25.wrong tree. Bluster, I don't think so. You have

:04:25. > :04:26.

:04:26. > :04:32.got to pick any hospital in Wales, they all have issues. It has almost

:04:32. > :04:38.been chaos. As far as this issue is concerned, just did a reasonable

:04:38. > :04:42.test, the ordinary and, what will he think? -- the ordinary man.

:04:42. > :04:47.There is only one conclusion, that is, it is very worrying.

:04:47. > :04:53.If we look ahead, next Wednesday is when this has been tabled, a vote

:04:53. > :04:57.of no confidence. Obviously the assembly is finally balance 30-30.

:04:57. > :05:05.What do you see happening? I c a very interesting debate, a

:05:05. > :05:08.lively debate. -- I see a very lively debate.

:05:08. > :05:13.Are you more interested in a minister resigning them the truth?

:05:13. > :05:16.I would like the truth but there is a case where a minister should be

:05:16. > :05:25.considering their position. Thank you for the time being.

:05:25. > :05:29.There is find out what is happening next week and in the Senedd today.

:05:29. > :05:35.An awful lot happening. Let's start at the beginning of the session,

:05:35. > :05:42.questions to ministers, today to do business minister, Edwina Hart, and

:05:42. > :05:47.the finance minister. There will be a statement by the business

:05:47. > :05:52.minister, Edwina Hart. She is looking at a report that has been

:05:52. > :05:56.done by a task and Finnish group, it means a group of experts to have

:05:56. > :06:00.been looking at an issue on behalf of the Welsh government. They have

:06:00. > :06:05.been looking at the approach to economic development called city

:06:05. > :06:09.regions. This means the experts seem to think if you get large

:06:09. > :06:13.populations of people together, 500,000 and more, it is very good

:06:13. > :06:18.for economic development, it brings a high-paid, high skilled jobs and

:06:18. > :06:22.lower paid jobs when you get a population of quite wealthy, well-

:06:22. > :06:28.paid people who need other people to service their needs, as it were.

:06:28. > :06:34.This has worked effectively in places like Vancouver or, in this

:06:34. > :06:38.country in Manchester, there is the wide it city region that benefits

:06:38. > :06:43.from the growth of the city. -- There is the wider city region.

:06:43. > :06:47.They are looking into whether this could happen in Wales. It might

:06:47. > :06:50.work in two city regions in the South centred on Cardiff and

:06:50. > :06:54.Swansea but there isn't a city region in the north. They should be

:06:54. > :06:59.a lot to come out of that statement this afternoon and the debate that

:06:59. > :07:01.will follow. On the back of that there is a debate from the inquiry

:07:01. > :07:06.of the health committee into community pharmacies. They have

:07:06. > :07:15.been looking at how effectively community pharmacies into BT the

:07:15. > :07:22.NHS and feel they could contribute more effectively. There is work to

:07:22. > :07:26.be done to combine efforts more effectively. Another debate from

:07:26. > :07:30.work done from a committee, the petitions committee, looking into

:07:30. > :07:33.the control of the noise from wind turbines. We have got many of those

:07:33. > :07:39.across Wales at the moment. They have recommended the planning

:07:39. > :07:43.guidance be changed, to put in place buffer zones of 1,500 metres,

:07:43. > :07:53.between the wind turbines at people's homes. We have got a

:07:53. > :07:55.

:07:55. > :08:02.debate nominated by Plaid. They want to look at not-for-profit

:08:02. > :08:06.options in the railway network then Paul Davies will be looking at war

:08:06. > :08:10.memorials, honouring our heroes and protecting them in Wales and I hope

:08:10. > :08:16.to talk to him about that subject shortly.

:08:16. > :08:19.As usual a fabulous line-up of what is going on today. We do have an

:08:19. > :08:23.idea of what is coming up next Wednesday, we will not be here to

:08:23. > :08:27.talk about it be you can give us an insight.

:08:27. > :08:31.As you have already discussed there will be this nation of no

:08:31. > :08:34.confidence in the health minister, that will be debated next Wednesday,

:08:34. > :08:39.the first time since the election the three opposition parties have

:08:39. > :08:47.come together to put it a market down. Two things to think about,

:08:47. > :08:51.the debate itself, but remember what ever happened in that debate,

:08:51. > :08:54.even though it will be tight, Lesley Griffiths as health minister

:08:54. > :08:59.would not have to resign, Carwyn Jones as Health Minister would not

:08:59. > :09:03.have to force her to resign. There is a question of what will actually

:09:03. > :09:08.emerged in real terms. A wider question of what impact that debate

:09:08. > :09:13.and others like it have on this general debate over whether health

:09:13. > :09:19.service is going in Wales. Lesley Griffiths knows many professionals

:09:19. > :09:23.are right behind her in terms of taking the health service forward

:09:23. > :09:28.but will that be enough when there is this public debate over whether

:09:28. > :09:31.the public can trust a key report on the way to making those changes,

:09:31. > :09:35.so there is the wider politics of this which will have an impact for

:09:35. > :09:42.months, years to come and that will be very interesting to watch

:09:42. > :09:47.unfolding. We will catch up with you later.

:09:47. > :09:57.Obviously you cannot watch that debate with us but you could watch

:09:57. > :10:04.

:10:04. > :10:09.That is the gender from Cardiff Bay. Let's go up the M4 to Westminster

:10:09. > :10:15.where recorder can tell us about the day ahead.

:10:16. > :10:21.-- where Tomos Livingstone. 91 Conservative MPs opposing plans

:10:21. > :10:23.for a mainly elected House of Lords. If you arrive at Westminster and

:10:23. > :10:27.looked at the voting lists you would think the government has got

:10:27. > :10:30.his House of Lords proposals through with the huge majority so

:10:30. > :10:36.what is the problem? It got through because Labour voted with the

:10:36. > :10:41.government side, largely in favour of Lords reform. A few backbenchers

:10:41. > :10:46.did rebel. The real problem for David Cameron, the Prime Minister,

:10:46. > :10:52.is 91 Conservatives voted against, a pretty sizable rebellion, when

:10:52. > :10:57.the coalition doesn't really have a key image -- huge majority itself.

:10:57. > :11:00.David Cameron is left with two problems, one is how does he patch

:11:00. > :11:07.things up with the Liberal Democrats, what does he do next

:11:07. > :11:09.with Lords reform? How does he deal with the 91 rebels? It shows what a

:11:09. > :11:14.delicate balance this whole coalition business can be,

:11:14. > :11:18.sometimes. The Lib Dems are saying to David Cameron you have to press

:11:18. > :11:21.ahead with Lords reform, if you don't maybe we will not let you

:11:21. > :11:31.preside with redrawing constituency boundaries. The Conservatives are

:11:31. > :11:33.

:11:33. > :11:36.saying, how long, we let you have the vote on AV. We are pushing

:11:36. > :11:40.ahead with this even though we are not keen. You are not threatening

:11:40. > :11:45.you will pull out your support. It does underline how difficult it is,

:11:45. > :11:50.if one thing is withdrawn, perhaps the whole House of cards comes

:11:50. > :11:53.tumbling down so David Cameron perhaps a bit relieved that the

:11:53. > :11:58.summer recess is coming. On the second issue of the rebellion, it

:11:58. > :12:01.white -- quite a tricky one, can the Prime Minister discipline at

:12:01. > :12:09.all and 91 MPs who have voted against the government, it is not

:12:09. > :12:13.really practical. Sir Malcolm Rifkind said I rebel 30 years ago

:12:13. > :12:19.and two years later I was a member of the government so suggesting

:12:19. > :12:24.there is no need to tell these people off. There is a problem, in

:12:24. > :12:30.the longer term, for David Cameron, if history tells us anything was at

:12:30. > :12:33.the start rebelling is there inside they tend to get a taste for it so

:12:33. > :12:36.another headache for David Cameron to think about. Three Welsh MPs

:12:36. > :12:44.voting it gives the government cannot one of them has got a

:12:44. > :12:49.question to the Prime Minister later on.

:12:49. > :12:54.The farming minister will be in the spotlight later on. He was in the

:12:54. > :13:01.spotlight when he was asked how much a pint of milk cost. He said

:13:01. > :13:05.he didn't but he asked his wife. A classic question that gets thrown

:13:05. > :13:11.at politicians all the time and sometimes catches them out with

:13:11. > :13:16.alarming frequency. It costs about 50 pence in the supermarkets. He

:13:16. > :13:20.said he didn't know and his wife did the shopping. There is a big

:13:20. > :13:23.protest at Westminster. Farming unions coming to take their case to

:13:23. > :13:26.the government. They say the supermarkets are squeezing the

:13:26. > :13:32.price of mock downwards and they are getting less and less power.

:13:32. > :13:37.Making it almost untenable to keep producing milk. Familiar story but

:13:37. > :13:40.one keeps coming back as we are facing the effects of the recession

:13:40. > :13:46.and what we do seem to be lower inflation over the next few months,

:13:46. > :13:49.few years, but not good news for everybody causing some problems at

:13:49. > :13:56.the farm gate. There was no point crying over

:13:56. > :14:00.spilt milk. A very bad-tempered first

:14:00. > :14:04.Minister's Questions here yesterday. They have got next week to kiss and

:14:04. > :14:09.make-up. Today is the final Prime Minister's Questions of turn.

:14:09. > :14:12.It has been quite bad-tempered of the last year or so, David Cameron

:14:12. > :14:15.has been criticised sometimes for getting a bit too irate at the

:14:15. > :14:19.dispatch box when answering questions. Some of his aides say if

:14:19. > :14:23.you look at the last couple of weeks he has been much calmer, more

:14:23. > :14:27.statesmanlike but when you look at the Lords rebellion and a row over

:14:27. > :14:33.Barclay's Bank and rate fixing going on, accusations flying back

:14:33. > :14:39.and forth about who knew what, and when, I did expect there will be

:14:39. > :14:42.much of the summer mood. I expect it might still be quite bad

:14:42. > :14:52.tempered on either side but Mr Cameron will be the only word

:14:52. > :15:08.

:15:09. > :15:13.It's time to go back to market in the Oriel with news of one of

:15:13. > :15:19.today's debates. I am pleased to say I am joined by the Conservative

:15:19. > :15:22.AM for Preseli Pembrokeshire, Paul Davies. To talk about your debate

:15:22. > :15:28.on war memorials this afternoon, why are you bringing that forward

:15:28. > :15:32.as a subject? War memorials Aaron essential part of our heritage and

:15:32. > :15:37.culture -- are an essential part, a permanent reminder of the sacrifice

:15:37. > :15:41.is brave men and women have made for our country and freedoms, and

:15:41. > :15:47.that is why it is important that we protect war memorial so future

:15:47. > :15:52.generations can remember those sacrifices, and also that future

:15:52. > :15:58.generations must learn from those conflicts, from those wars, so they

:15:58. > :16:02.are never repeated again. What do we need to protect them from?

:16:02. > :16:05.the short debate today, I am tabling this to explore ways of

:16:05. > :16:12.protecting war memorials, and putting forward three specific

:16:12. > :16:17.proposals. Firstly, I think we need an up-to-date national inventory so

:16:17. > :16:22.we know where more -- war memorials are, who, if anyone is responsible

:16:22. > :16:27.for them, and I would like to see local authorities drawing up those

:16:27. > :16:32.lists so they know where memorials are in those areas. Is it the case

:16:32. > :16:36.that sometimes we don't know who is responsible, then? Absolutely, and

:16:36. > :16:41.that is why it is essential that local authorities, I think, are

:16:41. > :16:47.responsible in doing that. Secondly, in terms of protecting

:16:47. > :16:50.those war memorials, I want to see statutory obligation on local

:16:51. > :16:56.authorities to protect and maintain those war memorials, currently

:16:56. > :17:03.under the war memorials Act 1920 tree, it does permit local

:17:03. > :17:07.authorities -- 1920 treaty, it permits local authorities to

:17:07. > :17:15.maintain them, but I want legislation on that. Thirdly, I

:17:15. > :17:19.will be talking about, sadly, the theft we see from scrap on war

:17:19. > :17:23.memorials, and the need to combat the Pep and see local authorities

:17:23. > :17:28.working closely with police and scrap metal dealers to combat this

:17:28. > :17:35.crime. Does that mean actually going into businesses and scrap

:17:35. > :17:41.metal dealers? You will be aware that particularly the honest ones

:17:41. > :17:45.won't welcome that kind of intrusion. We have great business

:17:45. > :17:50.people and scrap metal dealers in Wales at the moment. I understand

:17:50. > :17:52.they are obliged to register with local authorities, for example, but

:17:52. > :17:57.local authorities don't have the powers to regulate scrap-metal

:17:57. > :18:01.dealers, and I think we need to look at that, and it is important

:18:01. > :18:06.that local authorities and the Welsh Government work closely with

:18:06. > :18:10.scrap metal dealers to combat this sort of crime, because I understand

:18:10. > :18:15.scrap metal theft cost local- authority his last year for example

:18:15. > :18:22.some six-under and �80,000, which is why we need to combat it. We do

:18:22. > :18:24.look at putting CCTV cameras into yards? -- would you look. That is

:18:24. > :18:31.worth considering and we need to balance the cost, but we should

:18:31. > :18:37.explore that. What about vandalism Cup -- vandalism, it is a perennial

:18:37. > :18:40.problem, but is it any worse now? think, unfortunately, theft and

:18:40. > :18:45.graffiti are on the rise and this is why am tabling his mission to

:18:45. > :18:48.raise awareness and protect a war memorials in the future. You will

:18:48. > :18:51.be aware that local authorities want to do all manner of things and

:18:51. > :18:56.are looking into things they can get away with not doing at the

:18:56. > :19:00.moment due to lack of funds. Is it unrealistic to expect them to take

:19:00. > :19:04.on another statutory duty? I have tabled this debate to explore ways

:19:04. > :19:10.we can protect war memorials and work with local authorities to do

:19:10. > :19:14.that. I accept we are living in austere times with tight financial

:19:14. > :19:20.settlements, but this is a very important thing to our heritage and

:19:20. > :19:24.culture, which is why we need to protect our war memorials for

:19:24. > :19:32.future generations to remember those who sacrificed their lives.

:19:33. > :19:37.Thank you. Paul Davies, a improper say Pembrokeshire.

:19:37. > :19:42.We will go live to the House of Commons for per Minister's

:19:42. > :19:46.Questions at 12:00pm. The chief medical officer has warned that

:19:46. > :19:50.life expectancy is rising slower in poorer -- poorer communities. Dr

:19:50. > :19:54.Tony Jewell, in his final annual report before he steps down to them

:19:54. > :19:58.-- from the role, has also called for action to be taken over the

:19:59. > :20:02.causes of obesity, and as I found that, he wants more attention paid

:20:02. > :20:07.to health. I caught up with the chief Medical

:20:07. > :20:10.has -- officer at the home of Doreen Valentine, whose home had

:20:10. > :20:15.undergone improvements, and Tony Jewell wanted to highlight the

:20:15. > :20:18.impact of housing on people's health. We know housing affects

:20:18. > :20:22.your health, and especially when people spend most of the day at

:20:22. > :20:27.home, and families with young children under five spent a lot

:20:27. > :20:31.about a time at home as well as disabled people, so at the home is

:20:31. > :20:38.an important setting for health and we want to improve standards across

:20:38. > :20:42.Wales. The Government is intending to do that. The Welsh Government is

:20:42. > :20:46.putting proposals out for consultation which are important in

:20:46. > :20:53.terms of health setting and I want to draw attention to that in my

:20:53. > :20:58.report. He found his chat with Mrs Valentine very useful. Every year

:20:58. > :21:03.we report on what they call excess winter deaths. Mrs Valentine has

:21:03. > :21:06.talked about the installation on the outside walls of her house,

:21:06. > :21:11.which you notice made a difference to the heating, and she also has

:21:11. > :21:15.double glazing on the windows. These things help heating, and we

:21:15. > :21:18.no heating costs are increasing. And the elderly people -- many

:21:18. > :21:23.elderly people choose to switch the heating off for financial reasons,

:21:23. > :21:27.and it is important to have well insulated homes. The need to

:21:27. > :21:34.provide quality housing has been a big political issue for decades,

:21:34. > :21:38.which begs the question, why hasn't all been done? In Wales, 50 per

:21:38. > :21:45.cent of the housing was built before 1919. It doesn't mean it is

:21:45. > :21:49.bad but these examples about adapting existing houses rather

:21:49. > :21:53.than building new ones. For someone like Mrs Valentine, it is good to

:21:53. > :21:58.improve the house and she can ellipse in and is familiar with,

:21:58. > :22:02.and they think that is a very strong. -- currently lives in.

:22:02. > :22:07.Looking at the evidence, this is part of a project in

:22:07. > :22:17.Carmarthenshire using academics to prepare a before and after as well

:22:17. > :22:17.

:22:17. > :22:21.as control groups, and see whether the effects improve, so it is an

:22:21. > :22:26.important scientific evaluation as well, because the more evidence,

:22:26. > :22:30.the stronger it is to encourage investment. Mrs Valentine, a former

:22:30. > :22:35.nurse who began her career in the same year the NHS came into being,

:22:35. > :22:40.welcomes the investments she saw in her home. It is warmer. The kitchen

:22:40. > :22:45.is lovely, the bathroom is lovely, and I wouldn't like to go anywhere

:22:45. > :22:50.else. What does Byron Davies think about

:22:50. > :22:53.that? The main themes in the report, we know the government has

:22:53. > :23:00.published a housing White Paper and intends to improve housing stocks

:23:00. > :23:05.in Wales. Let me first of all say that

:23:05. > :23:09.anything that improves people's health in Wales is a good thing. I

:23:09. > :23:13.don't like intrusive government. I think we have to have a balance

:23:13. > :23:17.here we are we have to look after people's health. Tony Jewell has a

:23:17. > :23:22.suggestion that smoking in people's homes needs to be tackled. Would

:23:22. > :23:29.you stand on that? It is intrusive but it is about educating people

:23:29. > :23:34.are not to smoke as opposed to regulating it. The issues of more

:23:34. > :23:39.exercise to help with obesity, I've, for one, would love to see an

:23:39. > :23:43.example set in the Assembly by having a gymnasium, which

:23:43. > :23:48.unfortunately we don't have, but we need to set an example ourselves,

:23:48. > :23:53.actually. In your party, Glyn Davies, now an MP, called for a gym

:23:53. > :23:58.going back 10 years or so, it still hasn't happened. I wasn't aware of

:23:58. > :24:01.that but I would support that. Thank you for the time being. The

:24:01. > :24:06.Welsh Government says the closure of five of Wales's seven Remploy

:24:06. > :24:10.factories as a hammer blow for workers. The sites are among 27 in

:24:10. > :24:15.the UK marked for closure. The Minister for Disabled People, Maria

:24:15. > :24:17.Miller, said the loss-making sites could not be subsidised for that

:24:17. > :24:21.money could be spent more effectively. One of the closures is

:24:21. > :24:25.in the constituency of Cynon Valley MP, Ann Clwyd.

:24:25. > :24:33.I was there last week and will be there this Friday again. One man

:24:33. > :24:37.said to me, a have been here 20 years, this is my home. So people

:24:37. > :24:42.have valued working in Wembley and the support it has given them

:24:42. > :24:49.through France, working in the same factory -- working in Remploy --

:24:49. > :24:54.through France. They had a job to go to. I think this government is

:24:54. > :25:04.totally irresponsible to carry out this axing of Remploy factories at

:25:04. > :25:06.

:25:06. > :25:12.this time. There was a chance when Margaret Thatcher was Schools

:25:13. > :25:19.Secretary -- a chant, of milk snatcher. The other week people

:25:19. > :25:26.were chanting Maria Miller, Remploy killer. But is what people are

:25:26. > :25:31.saying. I am not surprised if she didn't like it. That was the MP,

:25:31. > :25:36.Ann Clwyd, speaking. She is in the Commons. 11 M is asking an urgent

:25:36. > :25:45.question about Remploy in the Senedd this afternoon. If you were

:25:45. > :25:48.speaking in a debate, what would we have to draw a line on

:25:48. > :25:52.affordability. As a result of the report which recommended people

:25:52. > :25:58.should go back into the community, which are wholeheartedly agree with,

:25:58. > :26:03.I think the days of Victorian-style principles with people in factories

:26:03. > :26:06.is long gone, and I am happy to see people back in the -- back into the

:26:06. > :26:11.communities, and I have spoken to people in Remploy who had clearly

:26:11. > :26:15.said they would prefer that. eagle-eyed amongst you will notice

:26:15. > :26:19.our political correspondent, John Stephenson is here. We are looking

:26:19. > :26:24.ahead to Prime Minister's Questions. You have spent more years than you

:26:24. > :26:28.would care to remember, I'm sure, observing Westminster. What can we

:26:28. > :26:31.expect this afternoon? This session will be very much the morning after

:26:31. > :26:36.the night before, very much a headache for David Cameron after

:26:36. > :26:41.what the Commons voted on yesterday, to back the principle of House of

:26:41. > :26:44.Lords reform, but the government whips and the leader of the house

:26:44. > :26:48.withdrew the programme motion, meaning the timetable of how they

:26:48. > :26:54.would deal with the legislation to enable the reform to come into

:26:54. > :26:58.effect. What will be fascinating are two things, how he deals with

:26:58. > :27:03.the inevitable question, where does the government go next? How he

:27:03. > :27:07.deals with a sizable number of backbench Tory MPs, it is important

:27:07. > :27:13.to remember that the opposition came essentially from a combined

:27:13. > :27:17.effort from Labour, it also Tory MPs, how he will passer-by and deal

:27:17. > :27:20.with them, and how he will sweet- talk the Lib Dems who are

:27:21. > :27:25.essentially part of the government. The reality is that without the Lib

:27:25. > :27:30.Dems David Cameron would not be Prime Minister. We heard from Tomos

:27:30. > :27:33.Dafydd earlier as well who's so the balance needed to be struck with

:27:33. > :27:37.the Lib Dems, who seemed to be claiming a pound of flesh -- who

:27:37. > :27:42.said. I heard on the radio this morning a suggestion that if there

:27:42. > :27:45.is no support from the Conservatives for these reports --

:27:45. > :27:49.reforms in the House of Lords, maybe there is no support for

:27:49. > :27:56.boundary changes from the Liberal Democrats? They have had the pound

:27:56. > :28:00.of flesh on the alternative vote system, and I can't see the Lib

:28:00. > :28:04.Dems coming down to head the on this. They want an opportunity of

:28:04. > :28:08.government, and they would walk away from that. Is There risk that

:28:08. > :28:13.we will hear people talking, Mabel -- maybe fanciful talk, from the

:28:13. > :28:19.Labour benches, but this could be the straw that breaks the camel's

:28:19. > :28:25.back of the coalition? I don't think so. John, the Lords is up for

:28:26. > :28:28.discussion, at the final one before the summer, do we think perhaps

:28:28. > :28:36.either Ed Miliband or David Cameron will try to have the final word and

:28:36. > :28:40.the upper hand going into summer recess? Well, essentially, a Prime

:28:40. > :28:48.Minister's Questions is very much double act, a Punch and Judy show.

:28:48. > :28:52.We saw that last week were the questions being revealed over the

:28:52. > :28:57.bank rate. Inevitably the two party leaders are very gladiatorial, that

:28:58. > :29:02.is the nature of PMQs. They are talking about bringing an end to

:29:02. > :29:07.Punch and Judy politics, David Cameron talked about it. The whole

:29:07. > :29:13.nature, the geography, the chamber for one thing, you have the benches

:29:13. > :29:19.facing each other, it is not the shape of the inclusive, if I can

:29:19. > :29:24.use that word, shape of the Assembly chamber here in Cardiff

:29:24. > :29:27.Bay. The essence of premises questions is theatre, and the

:29:27. > :29:32.leader of the opposition trying to lay a punch on the Prime Minister -

:29:32. > :29:36.- the essence of Prime Minister's Questions. Can I returned the.

:29:36. > :29:41.Byron Davies made? David Cameron's problem at the moment in the long

:29:41. > :29:46.term is not just with the Lib Dems. For instance, you have a senior

:29:46. > :29:51.member of the Conservative Party, get a bed, senior in the sense that

:29:51. > :29:56.he is a member of the 1922 Committee of the Tory party. He

:29:57. > :30:00.went on the record yesterday to say he thoroughly oppose the timetable

:30:00. > :30:06.motion which was withdrawn. If David Cameron has a problem with

:30:06. > :30:09.someone like him, he has a very real problem within his own party.

:30:09. > :30:19.We will leave it there for now and get your views after we have heard

:30:19. > :30:21.

:30:21. > :30:27.from Westminster, where Tomos MPs just finishing off

:30:27. > :30:32.International Development questions. Further to my visit to Helmand, I

:30:32. > :30:38.would like to pay tribute to the hard work and dedication of our

:30:38. > :30:43.forces. The MP for East Surrey. Secretary of State is aware of the

:30:43. > :30:47.shocking execution of a woman accused of adultery a week ago.

:30:47. > :30:52.What is the government doing to mitigate the risk of a return to

:30:52. > :31:00.Taliban cell treatment of women in Afghanistan? -- Taliban style

:31:00. > :31:04.treatment. The government vigorously condemned the execution.

:31:04. > :31:09.One of the key ways of transforming Afghan society to prevent the

:31:09. > :31:16.return of Taliban practices is to get girls into school. When there

:31:16. > :31:24.are a critical mass that will have a critical effect on Afghan society.

:31:24. > :31:28.There are nearly two and half million girls in school today.

:31:28. > :31:35.Quest is to the Prime Minister. Before listing my engagements I am

:31:35. > :31:38.sure the whole House would wish to pay tribute to police constable Ian

:31:38. > :31:42.di Belle who was shot and killed in Clacton-on-Sea on Monday. Even

:31:42. > :31:48.though he was off duty at the time he'd had his of asleep when saw

:31:49. > :31:54.members of the public at risk. This is typical of the behaviour -- he

:31:54. > :31:57.acted selflessly. We owe a great debt to those in the police force

:31:57. > :32:07.and sense and the Beast to his family, friends and colleagues at

:32:07. > :32:10.

:32:10. > :32:14.Can I associate eyes of and the whole House to the remarks the

:32:14. > :32:17.Prime Minister has made to the brave police officer and we send

:32:17. > :32:26.condolences to his family. Can the Prime Minister explain why he is

:32:26. > :32:30.making it easier for corporate law to be amended by copyright law to

:32:30. > :32:40.be amended by legislation and has has got anything to do with the 23

:32:40. > :32:42.

:32:42. > :32:52.meetings he has had with Google? are following the reckon a bed --

:32:52. > :32:54.

:32:54. > :33:00.recommendations of the Hargreaves Report. A report into the York Hill

:33:00. > :33:03.child part Unit in Glasgow conducted by Sir Ian Kennedy says

:33:03. > :33:08.the provision of paediatric intensive care may be unsafe if

:33:08. > :33:14.critical staffing problems are not addressed. The safe and sustainable

:33:14. > :33:19.review conducted by Sir Ian Kennedy is now suggesting Leeds unit which

:33:19. > :33:24.is safe be closed well Glasgow is not affected, it is absurd, this

:33:24. > :33:28.review needs to be thrown at. say to my honourable friend he

:33:28. > :33:32.speaks up for his local hospital which is an excellent hospital. My

:33:32. > :33:36.local hospital has also not been selected under the safe and

:33:36. > :33:39.sustainable review. I would say, as Prime Minister, but also as a

:33:39. > :33:46.parent, we have to recognise the operations that are now being

:33:46. > :33:50.carried out on children in terms of heart operations are incredibly

:33:50. > :33:53.complicated. It is about trying to save lives, to make sure we

:33:53. > :33:58.specialise at the most difficult work in a number of hospitals

:33:58. > :34:01.around the country. These difficult decisions but I am sure what really

:34:01. > :34:05.matters is more parents don't suffer the agony of losing their

:34:05. > :34:11.children because we did have the very high standards of care in

:34:11. > :34:16.hospitals chosen. Can I join the Prime Minister in

:34:16. > :34:20.paying tribute to the police officer, he demonstrated

:34:20. > :34:25.extraordinary bravery while being off-duty. His selfless act and

:34:25. > :34:29.tragic death remind us what the police do for us up and down this

:34:29. > :34:34.country. Am sure the condolences of the whole House go to his family

:34:34. > :34:37.and friends. At this last question time before the recess, can I

:34:37. > :34:41.remind the Prime Minister what he said before the election when he

:34:41. > :34:45.was asked why he wanted to be Prime Minister. He paused, and with

:34:45. > :34:55.characteristic humility he said, because I think I would be good at

:34:55. > :35:04.

:35:04. > :35:09.Where did it all go wrong? It is this government that has --

:35:09. > :35:13.that has cap benefits, immigration, taking 2 million people out of tax,

:35:13. > :35:20.cut tax for 25 million people, cut the fuel duty, increased spending

:35:20. > :35:28.on the NHS, and cut the deficit by 25% in two years. I cannot read out

:35:28. > :35:31.the list of all the things he got wrong. We haven't got time. They

:35:32. > :35:41.are obviously well whip today, it is a shame it didn't happen last

:35:42. > :35:43.

:35:43. > :35:49.night. -- whippet. -- whipped. Last night he lost control of his party

:35:49. > :35:54.and he lost his temper. We understand it was fisticuffs in the

:35:54. > :35:58.lobby with the Member for Hereford and South potager. I noticed by the

:35:58. > :36:03.way the posh boys have ordered him of the state today. He doesn't seem

:36:03. > :36:08.to be here. -- the estate. Who does the Prime Minister blame most for

:36:08. > :36:14.the disarray in his government? The Liberal Democrats or his own

:36:14. > :36:19.backbenchers? If the best he can do is a bunch of

:36:19. > :36:24.tittle-tattle, how utterly pathetic, on the day we are introducing

:36:24. > :36:30.social care reform that will help people up and down our country, and

:36:30. > :36:35.we get this half-baked gossip. Let me say this about House of Lords

:36:35. > :36:38.reform, if we want is the House of Lords reform, all of those who

:36:38. > :36:43.support House of Lords reform needed to not only a third for

:36:43. > :36:48.House of Lords reform, but support the means to bring that about --

:36:48. > :36:54.not only vote. He came to the House of Commons yesterday determined to

:36:54. > :36:58.vote yes, and then vote no, how utterly pathetic.

:36:58. > :37:04.It is the same all story with the Prime Minister. He blames everybody

:37:04. > :37:09.other than himself. The government is a shambles and he blames the

:37:09. > :37:14.Leader of the Opposition. That is what it has come to. Mr Speaker,

:37:14. > :37:19.his problems didn't start last night. They started months ago with

:37:19. > :37:25.a part-time Chancellor's Budget. They made the wrong choices and

:37:25. > :37:31.they stand up for the wrong people. Can he remind us after all Budget

:37:31. > :37:39.U-turns, why he still thinks it is right to give about get any �1

:37:39. > :37:43.million a �40,000 income tax cut next April?

:37:43. > :37:47.It was a Budget that cut taxes for millions of people, that it 2

:37:47. > :37:51.million people out of tax altogether, and has left us with a

:37:51. > :37:55.top rate of tax that was higher than any of the times he or his

:37:55. > :37:59.neighbour were in the Treasury, literally wrecking the British

:37:59. > :38:03.economy. There is no answer on his

:38:03. > :38:07.millionaire's tax cut and we will keep answering -- asking the

:38:07. > :38:15.question between now and next April. He is raising taxes on ordinary

:38:15. > :38:21.families, on pensioners, and cutting tax a millionairess. -- on

:38:21. > :38:26.a millionairess. Can he explain what has not been explained? He

:38:26. > :38:31.says week, by the way. What can be weaker than having 91 people vote

:38:32. > :38:37.against you. Panic he explain what has not been explained since the

:38:37. > :38:44.Budget, -- can he explain, why is it fair when you are cutting taxes

:38:44. > :38:48.for millionaire a corporal to last pensioners to pay more. -- for

:38:48. > :38:52.millionaires to ask pensioners to play more.

:38:52. > :38:56.The we made the biggest increase in the pension in the pensions history.

:38:56. > :39:01.What the Budget did was cut taxes for every working can -- -- every

:39:01. > :39:04.working person in a country. The top rate of tax change and was paid

:39:04. > :39:11.more than four times over by the richest people in our country. That

:39:11. > :39:14.compares with what we were left by the party of this it -- party

:39:14. > :39:20.opposite. We were left with the biggest deficit in Europe and never

:39:20. > :39:23.was an apology for the mess they left us with.

:39:23. > :39:28.No answer on the disarray in his government, no answer on the tax

:39:28. > :39:31.cuts for millionaires, Mel and so on the tax rise for pensioners,

:39:31. > :39:35.perhaps he has an answer on the biggest issue of all. In his new

:39:35. > :39:40.year message she said we have got to do more to bring the economy

:39:40. > :39:44.back to health. What has he delivered since then? A double-dip

:39:44. > :39:47.recession made in Downing Street. Isn't the reality the biggest

:39:47. > :39:52.failure facing his government, it is not the programme motion on

:39:52. > :39:57.Lords reform, it is the whole economic plan.

:39:57. > :40:01.It is under this government we got 800,000 more private sector jobs,

:40:01. > :40:07.inflation is down, unemployment is down, interest rates are at a

:40:07. > :40:11.record low, we are a net exporter of cars for the first time since

:40:11. > :40:16.1976. We completed the biggest construction project in Europe, the

:40:17. > :40:20.Olympics, we have started the next book this project, CrossRail, it is

:40:21. > :40:24.this government that has set up enterprise zones, backed

:40:24. > :40:30.apprenticeships, that is seeing business rebalance in this country.

:40:30. > :40:36.We will never forget what we were left by the party opposite. They

:40:36. > :40:40.were bailing out eurozone countries with taxpayers' money, paying one

:40:40. > :40:45.of �2,000 for just one family's housing benefit, they had an

:40:45. > :40:50.controlled welfare, immigration, government spending, never had so

:40:50. > :40:55.much been borrowed to, wasted, never have so many people been let

:40:55. > :41:05.down. This country will never forgive them for what they did.

:41:05. > :41:08.

:41:08. > :41:18.Mr Speaker, the Red day he gets, the less he convinces people. --

:41:18. > :41:23.

:41:23. > :41:28.Order, order! Members on order, members on both sides of the House,

:41:29. > :41:32.and now need to calm down. That is all there is too late. Ed Miliband.

:41:32. > :41:37.It is the same lecture we have had on the economy for the last two

:41:37. > :41:43.years. Things are getting worse, not better. Every time he gets up

:41:43. > :41:49.with that list of statistics he shows how out of touch he is. Tax

:41:49. > :41:53.cuts for millionaires, U-turn after U-turn, isn't the truth, he didn't

:41:53. > :41:59.just lose the confidence of his party last night, he is losing the

:41:59. > :42:09.confidence of the country. There is only one person who is red,

:42:09. > :42:11.

:42:11. > :42:19.and that his red bed. -- is Red Ed. Who backed red Ken Livingstone?

:42:19. > :42:24.They did. He opposed every measure to view -- who opposed every

:42:24. > :42:28.measure to deal with the deficit? Who has given the unions more say?

:42:28. > :42:34.Order, as they did a moment ago the Prime Minister's answers must and

:42:34. > :42:39.however long it takes, they will be heard. The Prime Minister. What has

:42:39. > :42:48.he done in the last year? Opposed immigration cab, a post a housing

:42:48. > :42:55.benefit cap, -- opposed. We know what he is against but when we we

:42:55. > :43:05.found up what he is 4th? -- when we -- when it will we find out what he

:43:05. > :43:07.

:43:07. > :43:11.Given the huge excess of the technological college initiative

:43:11. > :43:16.will the Prime Minister please confirm he will support a further

:43:16. > :43:26.round of applications this autumn and the funding is available so

:43:26. > :43:42.

:43:42. > :43:46.Passionate contribution from Anne Very good to see that, she is

:43:46. > :43:50.absolutely right to speak up for university technical colleges. They

:43:50. > :43:54.are a great addition to the schools we have in our country. They really

:43:54. > :43:57.are a high-profile way to have proper vocational education so we

:43:57. > :44:07.can give young people the skills they need to have a great career in

:44:07. > :44:07.

:44:07. > :44:14.the future. On Monday the 25th there was a possible administration

:44:14. > :44:17.of the NHS Trust, and that night he met with the members for Bexley and

:44:17. > :44:22.Bromley. Despite the Greenwich members asking for such a meeting,

:44:22. > :44:26.at this moment in time there is no date in the diary and no date

:44:26. > :44:29.forthcoming. Can the Prime Minister explain to me why the resident of

:44:29. > :44:37.Greenwich are not given the same respect by his minister as the

:44:37. > :44:40.residents of Bexley and Bromley? The honourable lady raises an

:44:40. > :44:49.aborted point. It is a difficult situation that has taken place at

:44:49. > :44:52.his NHS Trust. -- raises an important point. It is partly

:44:52. > :44:56.because of the PFI contract which are completely unsustainable. I

:44:56. > :44:58.will take very seriously what she says and see if I can arrange a

:44:58. > :45:08.meeting between her and one of their health ministers to discuss

:45:08. > :45:11.

:45:11. > :45:15.Does my right honourable friend share my sense of insecure --

:45:15. > :45:21.incredulity that the party opposite continued to oppose a benefit pack

:45:21. > :45:25.up, and does the show who is on the right side of hard-working

:45:25. > :45:29.families? It is an important point, they came to the House of Commons

:45:29. > :45:32.and said they would back the welfare cap but when it came to the

:45:32. > :45:36.crunch they opposed it, and it is right, it shows who is on the side

:45:37. > :45:40.of those who work hard and want to do the best for their families,

:45:40. > :45:46.country and community, and using sea should be better off on

:45:46. > :45:54.benefits. We back the workers, they that the shirkers. -- who should be

:45:54. > :45:58.better off on benefits. The second Battalion and the Royal Regiment of

:45:58. > :46:03.Fusiliers will be disbanded meaning 600 soldiers face redundancy. This

:46:03. > :46:07.is a battalion and regiment with a proud history of service to this

:46:08. > :46:13.country. Will the Prime Minister not reconsider the cut to this

:46:13. > :46:17.battalion? We looked at this issue incredibly carefully and to guard

:46:17. > :46:24.time, which many times we were criticised for doing, -- to cut

:46:24. > :46:30.time, and I think the decision to have a small regular army of 80,000

:46:30. > :46:34.and larger reserve Territorial Army at 30,000, is the right balance.

:46:34. > :46:38.The government is putting �1.5 billion into building up the

:46:38. > :46:41.reserves and I hope they us across the house will cut the prices of

:46:41. > :46:46.encouraging members to allow reservists to serve their country.

:46:46. > :46:49.I think it is -- the right decision. We have made sure no existing

:46:49. > :46:55.regimental names or cap badges will be lost, and it needs the right

:46:55. > :46:59.course for the future. Independent observers hailed the first free

:46:59. > :47:03.elections in Libya for 47 years as broadly free and transparent and

:47:03. > :47:06.offering real hope for the future. Does my right honourable friend

:47:06. > :47:11.agree that we should congratulate the Libyan people on the progress

:47:11. > :47:16.made since their successful struggle to overthrow a brutal 40-

:47:16. > :47:23.year-old dictatorship, and the message is also a sense to others

:47:23. > :47:27.who yearn for democracy in their countries? I am sure we speak for

:47:27. > :47:29.the whole house and the whole country in sending our

:47:29. > :47:33.congratulations to the Libyan people in what looked like

:47:33. > :47:37.successful elections. A year ago, things did not look as if they

:47:38. > :47:41.would turn out well in Libya. I am proud of the fact that the Nato

:47:41. > :47:47.alliance and this country stayed true to the course and help secured

:47:47. > :47:56.the right outcome in Libya, and those people now have the chance of

:47:56. > :48:00.successful democracy and prosperity. We have been consulting on the

:48:00. > :48:02.closure of four out of nine accident and emergency units. The

:48:02. > :48:06.medical luck -- directors said north-west London would literally

:48:06. > :48:11.run out of many of these closures don't happen. What kind of

:48:11. > :48:14.consultation is it that poses a choice between the closure of half

:48:14. > :48:19.the accident and emergency units and -- in north-west London and the

:48:19. > :48:27.potential bankruptcy of the local NHS? I would say on the issue of

:48:27. > :48:33.money we have put a �12.5 billion extra into the NHS, a decision her

:48:33. > :48:36.party opposes, and said extra spending on the NHS is

:48:37. > :48:43."irresponsible four we will make sure local people, traditions and

:48:43. > :48:51.GPs are listened to. We will ensure good access to units for all our

:48:51. > :48:55.people. As minor trouble France -- has his attention been drawn to be

:48:55. > :48:59.a a's advertisement that the regular train service to Stansted

:48:59. > :49:04.Airport takes 47 minutes, which is not universally correct across the

:49:04. > :49:11.timetable, and in any case is too long, and when he commit to a major

:49:11. > :49:17.upgrade of the West Anglia line so that -- he's dandelion, so there is

:49:17. > :49:21.a good train service and my constituents get the to me they

:49:21. > :49:25.deserve? I am -- I understand why he wants to speak up for his

:49:25. > :49:31.constituents, but I can say as part of the new East Anglia rail

:49:31. > :49:33.franchise from the sum of 2014 we were last bidders to propose

:49:33. > :49:39.affordable investment aimed at improving services, and ensure they

:49:39. > :49:43.will listen carefully to what he said. The government rightly

:49:43. > :49:48.donates millions of overseas aid to developing countries including

:49:48. > :49:54.India, to eradicate poverty and disease. Despite this, the Canadian

:49:54. > :49:58.government, including the government of Quebec, will invest

:49:58. > :50:03.$58 million in asbestos producing mines, not for use in Canada, but

:50:03. > :50:08.to export to developing countries including India, which will put

:50:08. > :50:14.thousands of poor people at risk from the deadly asbestos related

:50:14. > :50:17.diseases. Will the Prime Minister and international development

:50:17. > :50:22.secretary encourage international community's including the World

:50:22. > :50:25.Health Organisation to oppose this outrageous decision? I will see the

:50:25. > :50:30.head of the World Health Organisation later today so I can

:50:30. > :50:34.raise this issue with them. Asbestos is banned in the UK, EU

:50:34. > :50:39.and a number of other countries. We are opposed to is used anywhere and

:50:39. > :50:42.deplore his supply to developing countries. If it does not dodge the

:50:43. > :50:47.departure of four international element does not fund countries

:50:47. > :50:51.exporting asbestos, and we are not aware that funds have been used in

:50:51. > :50:55.that way. I would take urgent action were that get the case, but

:50:55. > :51:00.I think he makes a strong point regarding the Indian situation.

:51:00. > :51:05.September for the European Court of Human Rights is hearing the case of

:51:05. > :51:09.the lady who lost her job at British Airways for wearing a

:51:09. > :51:13.crucifix as a mark of for Christianity. The behaviour of

:51:13. > :51:19.British Airways in this was disgraceful political correctness.

:51:19. > :51:24.So I was surprised to see the government is resisting her appeal.

:51:24. > :51:28.I cannot believe the government is supporting this oppression of

:51:28. > :51:33.religious freedom in the workplace, so what were we do about this sad

:51:33. > :51:39.case? -- will we do? The ones I can say I agree with my Right

:51:39. > :51:42.Honourable Friend -- for once. I support the right way religious

:51:42. > :51:46.symbols at work, I think it is a vital religious freedoms. What we

:51:46. > :51:50.will do is, if it turns out the law has the intention, as has come at

:51:50. > :51:59.in this case, we will change the law and make sure people can wear

:52:00. > :52:05.religious emblems at work. Independent action produced report

:52:05. > :52:09.shows that by 2015 the most vulnerable families in this country,

:52:09. > :52:12.including those employed, will lose �3,000 a year because of this

:52:12. > :52:17.Government's policies, at a time when millionaires are getting tax

:52:17. > :52:21.cuts of more than �40,000 a year. Can he stand at the dispatch box

:52:22. > :52:26.and say we are all in this together? I know the report doesn't

:52:26. > :52:29.include some of the steps we have taken, for instance, providing more

:52:30. > :52:34.nursery education for disadvantaged to year-olds, but above all, if he

:52:34. > :52:37.looks at the Universal Credit and its design, we will be helping

:52:37. > :52:42.parents with the most disabled children to make sure they get the

:52:42. > :52:45.help they need. Will the Prime Minister comment on the worrying

:52:45. > :52:50.stand-off between the Egyptian military, who are clearly tried to

:52:50. > :52:55.cling on to power in defiance of the Arab Spring, and Mr Mohammed

:52:55. > :53:01.Morsi, who is undoubtedly the Democratic be elected President of

:53:01. > :53:05.Egypt? Thus democratically-elected. This is an important point, I am

:53:05. > :53:09.struck by what the peasants as a but governing on behalf of everyone

:53:09. > :53:13.in Egypt and respecting religious and other freedoms, and I hope the

:53:13. > :53:18.current tension can be resolved. But I think people have to respect

:53:18. > :53:21.the democratic will of the Egyptian people as they expressed it. He in

:53:21. > :53:26.the last election the Prime Minister promised the pensioner's

:53:26. > :53:31.bus passes were safe. Will he reject calls from the Liberal

:53:31. > :53:36.Democrats and now his close ally at -- ally, the Member for Grantham

:53:36. > :53:41.and Stamford us, and categorically without means testing of bus passes,

:53:41. > :53:45.including in the manifesto for the next general election? At the last

:53:45. > :53:49.election I made it clear promise about bus passes, television

:53:49. > :53:56.licences, it winter fuel payments, we are keeping all those promises.

:53:56. > :54:02.LAUGHTER. As Melinda Gates recently said, women in developing countries

:54:02. > :54:07.want to look Ray's educated children who can contradicted

:54:07. > :54:12.prosperous communities. Would he agree that away to support this

:54:12. > :54:16.aspiration is to help those who wish to do so? The Honourable Lady

:54:16. > :54:19.is right, and later today I will speak to a seminar event with

:54:19. > :54:23.Melinda Gates and a range of leaders from across Africa and

:54:23. > :54:28.other parts of the developing world's about exactly this issue.

:54:28. > :54:31.We should do more to allow mothers access to birth control so they can

:54:31. > :54:36.plan their family size. All the evidence shows that as countries

:54:36. > :54:39.develop, family size reduces and populations become more sustainable,

:54:39. > :54:43.but we should help people plan that process. It is not about telling

:54:43. > :54:52.people what to do but allowing them the choice which we take for

:54:52. > :54:57.granted in this country. Members will know that St Patrick, the

:54:57. > :55:01.Roman Britain, is a unifying figure. He established his mission in my

:55:01. > :55:05.constituency of South Down, where today, many people of all faiths,

:55:05. > :55:10.draw on his legacy and work unstintingly to build peace across

:55:10. > :55:14.the divide. Will the Prime Minister when next in Northern Ireland,

:55:14. > :55:18.perhaps during the Olympics, come to St Patrick's country and meet

:55:18. > :55:26.with these people and witness St Patrick's unique heritage for

:55:26. > :55:30.himself, where he would fight any rebel Tories? LAUGHTER. I don't

:55:30. > :55:37.know whether the Honourable Lady can guarantee that. We have an

:55:37. > :55:40.active branch in Northern Ireland, aren't it is set -- and it is an

:55:40. > :55:45.intriguing and kind invitation, and they hope the Olympics will bring

:55:45. > :55:49.the whole of the UK together. The torch relay has already helped

:55:49. > :55:52.achieve that, and I was privileged to see it in my own constituency.

:55:52. > :55:59.It was a successful tour in Northern Ireland, and if I can

:55:59. > :56:03.accept the invitation, I will. of the success stories of this

:56:03. > :56:06.government is his commitment to rural communities and farming.

:56:06. > :56:10.Nearly 2000 dairy farmers are meeting in Westminster today to

:56:10. > :56:13.fight drastic reductions in prices at hands of processes and

:56:13. > :56:18.supermarkets. Will the Prime Minister during a fight to get a

:56:18. > :56:22.fair deal for their product? He is right to speak up for British

:56:22. > :56:26.farmers and does an extremely good job in doing that. This government

:56:26. > :56:28.is investing in our countryside, not least with the rural broadband

:56:28. > :56:33.programme, but we want a fairer deal between farmers and

:56:33. > :56:38.supermarkets, which is why we will legislate for the adjudication he

:56:38. > :56:41.supports. I can also say that today we are announcing �5 million extra

:56:41. > :56:48.under the rural economy grants scheme, to help make out dairy

:56:48. > :56:53.industry, which we should be very proud of, more competitive. What

:56:53. > :56:58.will the Prime Minister say to the 150,000 adults that the government

:56:58. > :57:04.itself estimates will be denied a second chance for education as a

:57:04. > :57:08.result of their plans to charge full-cost fees to over 24 year olds

:57:08. > :57:14.studying A-level and a government programmes and access courses?

:57:14. > :57:17.There will be a false statement on this later in the week but it is

:57:17. > :57:20.important that we expand further education opportunities in our

:57:20. > :57:25.country, and to do that we need to be clear about how to pay for them.

:57:25. > :57:30.That is what we repeatedly get from the party opposite, complaints

:57:30. > :57:37.about this or that policy, but no idea how they would pay for any of

:57:37. > :57:46.their policies. The government has certainly achieved a great deal in

:57:46. > :57:49.the last two years. Given that new issues are emerging as we enter the

:57:49. > :57:55.30th of coalition, does the Prime Minister agree with me that now

:57:55. > :58:00.would be a good time for the political agreement for the future?

:58:00. > :58:03.-- the third year of coalition. absolutely agree that in a

:58:03. > :58:09.coalition you need to keep working out the next set of things you want

:58:09. > :58:13.to achieve. This coalition has achieved cuts to corporation tax,

:58:13. > :58:16.taking people out of income tax, a massive expansion of trust schools,

:58:16. > :58:22.a huge contribution to our health service which is now performing

:58:22. > :58:28.better than any time in the last decade, and I am committed to

:58:28. > :58:38.ensuring we take all the next steps to make our country a better place.

:58:38. > :58:41.

:58:41. > :58:47.Her grandfather from Blaenau Gwent was talking about his son returning

:58:47. > :58:50.from Afghanistan. Labour has promised big companies like John

:58:50. > :58:54.Lewis will guarantee an interview for veterans. Will the Prime

:58:54. > :58:58.Minister do the same? I welcome what he says and think we should do

:58:58. > :59:02.everything we can to work with employers, public or private sector,

:59:02. > :59:05.to help find former service personnel jobs. They have been

:59:05. > :59:10.brilliantly trained and contributed incredible things to our country,

:59:10. > :59:13.and we can do much more to help them find work. For instance, in

:59:13. > :59:20.the public sector, by Right Honourable Friend the Education

:59:20. > :59:26.to teachers to get people who have served our country to inspire

:59:26. > :59:32.future generations, which is a brilliant scheme. The army will

:59:32. > :59:37.reduce to its smaller size since 1750, and half the size it was at

:59:37. > :59:40.the time of the Falklands war. Does he accept that history is not kind

:59:40. > :59:47.to prime ministers who are perceived to have left our country

:59:48. > :59:52.without a strong defence capability? I know with the

:59:52. > :59:56.garrison in his constituency, he speaks with great power about

:59:56. > :00:01.military issues. What I would say is that if you look at the overall

:00:01. > :00:09.balance of what we are doing, 80,000 regular soldiers, but his

:00:09. > :00:13.1000 Territorial Army, fully funded, meaning the army is a similar size

:00:13. > :00:17.afterwards. The important thing is that we inherited a �38 billion

:00:17. > :00:22.deficit in our defence budget. We have close that the visit and it is

:00:22. > :00:26.fully funded. We have huge investment going ahead for our army,

:00:26. > :00:36.navy and air force, and his country under this government will always

:00:36. > :00:44.

:00:44. > :00:50.Can he tell us when the Chancellor of Exchequer will admit he made

:00:50. > :00:54.false allegations and apologise? we look at what my right honourable

:00:54. > :01:02.friend the Chancellor said, he said the Shadow Chancellor had some

:01:02. > :01:07.questions to answer. I am not sure there is anyone in this House he

:01:07. > :01:12.doesn't think the Shadow Chancellor has some questions to answer.

:01:12. > :01:16.Perhaps before we break for the summer we should be remember what a

:01:16. > :01:21.few of those questions are? Who designed the regulatory system that

:01:22. > :01:25.failed? He was city Minister when Northern Rock was selling 110%

:01:25. > :01:29.mortgages? Who advised the Chancellor and Prime Minister there

:01:29. > :01:33.was no more boom and bust? Who helped create the biggest boom, the

:01:33. > :01:41.biggest bust, and has never apologised for the dreadful record

:01:41. > :01:46.he had in office? Cherie's Prix remains the only

:01:46. > :01:50.county town in England without a directory -- direct rail link to

:01:50. > :01:54.the capital city -- Shrewsbury. When the new rail French shows are

:01:54. > :01:57.apportioned will the Prime Minister used his good office to endure the

:01:57. > :02:02.government has everything impossible to insure it is

:02:02. > :02:06.connected to our capital city? My honourable friend always speaks

:02:06. > :02:14.for Cherie's breed, and he is absolutely right. When the

:02:14. > :02:20.franchises I looked at -- Shrewsbury,, I'm sure rail

:02:20. > :02:26.operators will listen very carefully. My constituent is

:02:26. > :02:31.recovering from cancer but she has had her E S A stopped after 365

:02:31. > :02:36.days. The government consultation on changing this rule ended in

:02:36. > :02:41.March. When are we going to see justice for the 7,000 cancer

:02:41. > :02:44.patients are in this situation? I have looked at this case and I

:02:44. > :02:49.know she has now had a response from the Minister about this issue.

:02:49. > :02:53.There are two types, one of them every there is permanent support

:02:53. > :02:57.are not means tested, and another weather is means-tested after one

:02:57. > :03:02.year. We are making sure more people with cancer are getting more

:03:02. > :03:04.help and more treatment. That is very important. It is absolutely

:03:04. > :03:11.right there ralph two forms of support allowance so those people

:03:11. > :03:15.who cannot work, he genuinely cannot work or prepared for work

:03:15. > :03:19.get throughout -- get supported throughout their lives. A pretty

:03:19. > :03:25.lively, bad-tempered affair with those exchanges between Ed Miliband

:03:25. > :03:31.and David Cameron. It might be time to look again at whether coalition

:03:31. > :03:35.agreement goes next. Plenty for MPs to mull over as they head off on

:03:35. > :03:39.the summer holidays, plenty to discuss in the studio.

:03:39. > :03:48.We have a coalition of sorts on the sofa. At least one member of the

:03:48. > :03:54.Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. Let's have your view

:03:54. > :03:58.about the vote on Lords reform. The vote has passed but it does seem up

:03:59. > :04:04.laws reform is maybe as far away now as it was previously. -- Lords

:04:04. > :04:08.reform. I did think so. What the Prime Minister needs to do is win

:04:08. > :04:14.consensus in his own party and when that authority back. Will to reform

:04:14. > :04:19.is something that is very important. We believe our power should be in

:04:19. > :04:23.the hands of people, our process should be completely democratic as

:04:23. > :04:28.far as possible. And that is something we are committed to

:04:28. > :04:31.seeing. How much do you think this rebellion perhaps from the

:04:31. > :04:34.Conservative point-of-view is aimed at destabilising the coalition?

:04:34. > :04:40.There are plenty who are not happy? A There are some individuals who

:04:40. > :04:46.would rather they had won the election but they didn't. We would

:04:46. > :04:51.rather we won the election. We have a coalition and we have to make it

:04:52. > :04:55.work, we have to be responsible, and keep that coalition together

:04:55. > :05:00.for the best interests of the country. It is not in the best

:05:00. > :05:07.interests of the country when Iraq financial crisis rocketing around

:05:07. > :05:15.Europe for a stupid ourselves in some kind of political chaos. --

:05:15. > :05:21.for us to picture ourselves. I don't think it is under serious

:05:21. > :05:25.threat. What price must the coalition stay

:05:25. > :05:30.together, that Simon Hughes mentioned this morning on the radio,

:05:30. > :05:35.he might expect the Conservatives to pull behind the Coalition on

:05:35. > :05:39.Lord reform to get reforms on boundaries through, is that not

:05:39. > :05:44.holding the government to ransom? Not at all, part of the coalition

:05:44. > :05:47.agreement. If one partner sticks to their part of agree that the other

:05:48. > :05:52.will do so as well. If there is renegotiation it is only to be

:05:52. > :05:57.expected that more than one area will potentially be renegotiated. A

:05:57. > :06:00.partnership is about give and take and if one partner is asked to give

:06:00. > :06:10.certainly the other partner ought to be asked to give as well.

:06:10. > :06:10.

:06:10. > :06:16.You have got a few which you shared. -- An opinion which you share. We

:06:16. > :06:21.did give up on the alternative vote referendum. It is an issue of

:06:21. > :06:27.negotiation and making compromises. That is clearly the only way at the

:06:27. > :06:34.moment. What did you make of David

:06:34. > :06:40.Cameron's attack on Ed Balls? A sense of pantomime about it with

:06:40. > :06:48.the MPs joining in. With the summer recess assessed --

:06:48. > :06:53.ahead it is not surprising the final question time took that path.

:06:53. > :06:58.Ed Balls have -- has got an awful lot to answer for. The Prime

:06:58. > :07:03.Minister outlined exactly what he did to contribute to the disaster

:07:03. > :07:11.we find ourselves in. He didn't look very happy. I should

:07:11. > :07:17.think not. What did you make of the parliamentary pantomime?

:07:17. > :07:20.It is one of the things that gives character to the House of

:07:20. > :07:23.parliament but there are serious questions to answer. If you will

:07:23. > :07:27.fling mud from one side of the Chamber to another you cannot be

:07:27. > :07:33.all that surprised if it comes back again from time to time.

:07:33. > :07:36.With the recess now ahead, is that perhaps, David Cameron's attempt to

:07:36. > :07:42.get the upper hand as we go away from the Commons for a couple of

:07:42. > :07:46.months and we will possibly see less of politicians?

:07:46. > :07:51.David Cameron will need to go back to his own supporters and make sure

:07:51. > :07:54.he has a united party going into the next parliamentary term.

:07:54. > :07:58.Obviously there have been signs of rebellion on a number of issues and

:07:58. > :08:03.he needs to get that in the bud a share his authority. Nick Clegg

:08:03. > :08:08.will obviously be working with his activists to discuss whether

:08:08. > :08:11.coalition goes from here. The coalition has actually delivered a

:08:11. > :08:16.huge pall portion of what it originally intended -- a huge

:08:16. > :08:19.proportion. There is an opportunity to look to the future and to

:08:19. > :08:22.discuss what other things we might choose to deliver together in

:08:22. > :08:26.partnership. Are you quite happy the Prime

:08:26. > :08:30.Minister will be able to nip it in the bud, as she suggests he should

:08:30. > :08:36.try and do? I think he can. He is a very strong

:08:36. > :08:40.leader. MPs have to represent the people that fit for them, and you

:08:40. > :08:49.see a little bit of muscle-flexing from time to time -- that a vote

:08:49. > :08:52.for them. He is a strong leader and he will have the party behind him.

:08:52. > :08:56.Coming up on am.pm we will hear Welsh government concerns about a

:08:56. > :09:00.new way of allocating council tax rebates.

:09:00. > :09:04.But before we hear about that it is time to go back to mark in the

:09:04. > :09:09.Oriel. I will talk to Plaid Cymru's Glyn

:09:10. > :09:13.Thomas about rail franchise. You're not happy with the way it operates

:09:13. > :09:17.and want it to change, what is wrong?

:09:17. > :09:21.A lack of investment at the moment in terms of the passenger service.

:09:21. > :09:24.We would to see the passenger experience improved, and we are

:09:24. > :09:28.looking at different models in order to ensure that happens and

:09:28. > :09:31.people feel they -- their experience of travelling on trains

:09:31. > :09:38.improves. The service is run by Arriva Trains

:09:38. > :09:48.Wales. You have made it clear in your idea you don't blame them, but

:09:48. > :09:48.

:09:48. > :09:53.she blown up model. We are looking for a dividend, based on water, and

:09:53. > :09:57.how that could be used to ensure there is more investment into the

:09:57. > :10:00.service and in short there is more frequency in terms of trains and

:10:00. > :10:07.there was more, but on those trains -- in short there is more frequency.

:10:07. > :10:12.We want to make the price is more competitive. -- make sure the price

:10:12. > :10:16.is more competitive. I did have a problem with renationalisation but

:10:16. > :10:20.European regulation would be difficult. Not for dividend model,

:10:20. > :10:26.something which has worked successfully. They do make a profit.

:10:27. > :10:30.But they actually reinvest their profits into the service they offer.

:10:30. > :10:33.Had as a work for economic lay people like myself, if it is not

:10:33. > :10:39.the government, an arms-length company but the best the profits

:10:39. > :10:43.into services? -- they reinvest the profits. Baby investing to the

:10:43. > :10:53.company, did have shelled us. We would like to seek representation

:10:53. > :10:54.

:10:54. > :11:00.into the Welsh government. It is a quite a clever mechanisation.

:11:00. > :11:09.a very clever system of ensuring greater investment into the service

:11:09. > :11:12.and injuring passengers getting a better service. -- and ensuring.

:11:12. > :11:17.Presumably there is a great cost to running the services which the

:11:17. > :11:23.Welsh government in future might need to take more on board? They is

:11:23. > :11:28.aghast but those profits would be reinvested and therefore we could

:11:28. > :11:32.improve those -- There is a cost. Heavily if we improved the service

:11:32. > :11:37.more people would be using it. -- hopefully. Could this lead to more

:11:37. > :11:42.services? Certainly the investment would lead to greater frequency in

:11:42. > :11:47.terms of Jenny's and a better experience for people using their

:11:47. > :11:50.strains -- journeys. You get an indication of cross-party support?

:11:50. > :11:55.I have raised the issue with the Minister and got a positive

:11:55. > :12:01.response from him. He is quite happy to look at that has hopefully

:12:01. > :12:07.we can work together. We will see where it goes from here.

:12:07. > :12:13.Let's see what our guests thing. If your initial reaction to the idea

:12:13. > :12:18.of the not for dividend projects. A social enterprise is a business

:12:18. > :12:23.at the end of the day so I will not dismiss it. Glad to see some

:12:23. > :12:29.clarity around what he is saying because the actual motion was

:12:29. > :12:34.somewhat confusing. I will not dismiss it.

:12:34. > :12:38.Do you get the train here sometimes? I do at times. I find it

:12:38. > :12:43.is a very good service, actually. It is something we should be taken

:12:43. > :12:49.up by more people. -- that should be taken up.

:12:49. > :12:54.Your fellow party member, Eleanor Burnham, always complain there was

:12:54. > :12:59.no buffet car. I was terribly sorry to hear it.

:12:59. > :13:03.Today's debate, I'm glad to hear Roger describing what he is trying

:13:03. > :13:11.to achieve because the debate talks about the rail network and the rail

:13:11. > :13:17.network as far as I understand is the infrastructure. It is run and

:13:17. > :13:20.managed for us by Network Rail. Which is a not for dividend company.

:13:20. > :13:24.So in their mission they are asking the was government to investigate

:13:24. > :13:33.setting up what we already have and that doesn't seem to be a fantastic

:13:33. > :13:36.use. It wasn't really what he was suggesting. Unfortunately...

:13:36. > :13:41.clumsy tabling of the debate. has led people do miss understand

:13:41. > :13:50.what they are hoping to achieve. Her filly or all AMs will be

:13:50. > :13:57.listening -- hopefully. I think it is always plausible to look at

:13:57. > :14:01.social enterprises are running infrastructure projects, such as

:14:01. > :14:05.Network Rail do. There is no reason why it a rail operating company can

:14:05. > :14:09.be a social enterprise of some form but to insist upon it in a

:14:09. > :14:12.franchise agreement might be difficult, they may be legal

:14:12. > :14:17.difficulties around competition law and the torment practice, all of

:14:17. > :14:22.those things we need to take into account. -- procurement practice.

:14:22. > :14:26.Electrification to Swansea, we still hear, is being discussed.

:14:26. > :14:30.Anything you can tell us. I have no inside information, I am afraid.

:14:30. > :14:34.Sorry to disappoint you. I know it has to be announced before the end

:14:34. > :14:44.of July. I'm very much looking forward to a positive announcement

:14:44. > :14:54.

:14:54. > :14:59.for Swansea and it will be a party MPs agreed in principle to push

:14:59. > :15:03.ahead with plans to create a mainly elected upper house, championed by

:15:03. > :15:07.the Lib Dems, but a vote on a timetable for debating was dropped

:15:08. > :15:11.after dozens of Tory MPs made clear they would defy party orders and

:15:11. > :15:16.side with Labour, so where does this leave Lords reform? Bethan

:15:16. > :15:21.James has been speaking to a Welsh Liberal Democrat Lord.

:15:21. > :15:26.MPs may have voted in favour of Lords reform last night, but that

:15:26. > :15:30.in no way it means that reform will happen. To discuss last night's

:15:30. > :15:36.events with me a little further is the Liberal Democrat peer Lord

:15:36. > :15:40.German. Your leader in the Commons says last night was a victory for

:15:40. > :15:45.those in favour of reform, but be honest, that description is far

:15:45. > :15:50.from the truth. Well, it is one step forward, meaning we have a

:15:50. > :15:54.huge majority of the House Commons favouring reform, and now we are on

:15:54. > :15:58.hold, which is disappointing -- the House of Commons. So it is

:15:58. > :16:03.disappointing but for the first time Parliament has spoken with a

:16:03. > :16:06.huge voice, it is a massive majority in favour of reform, so

:16:06. > :16:10.people know that they have to do reform, and now has the time to

:16:10. > :16:15.bang heads together and find a way forward. We have the space to do

:16:16. > :16:19.that in, so yes, I am disappointed we could not proceed immediately,

:16:19. > :16:24.but I am confident that a deal is a deal, the Prime Minister must deal

:16:24. > :16:29.bit -- picks the deal to make sure it works, but on the other hand we

:16:29. > :16:34.have a huge Labour majority supporting the movement, and they

:16:34. > :16:38.have to come -- come up with a way of making it happen. Interestingly

:16:38. > :16:41.there is an unholy alliance of rebels and -- on the right of the

:16:41. > :16:45.Conservatives and the left of the Labour Party. In Wales we have

:16:45. > :16:49.members on the left and right coalescing in opposing it, but the

:16:49. > :16:55.vast majority of Labour and Conservative and Liberal Democrats

:16:55. > :16:59.are in favour of these reforms. say it is a step forward, but it is

:16:59. > :17:03.going nowhere, really, isn't it, because without a timetable, this

:17:03. > :17:08.Bill is unlikely to get through both Houses of Parliament. There

:17:08. > :17:11.has to be a timetable, you can't do it any other way. There were many

:17:11. > :17:15.suggest -- sensible suggestions during yesterday's debate as to the

:17:15. > :17:19.number of days we need to debate it. That is clearly where the

:17:19. > :17:24.negotiation needs to take place with the Labour Party. After all,

:17:24. > :17:28.they have their troops firmly in line, a few hanging out on the side

:17:28. > :17:33.on the left, but they have their troops in line to support reform,

:17:33. > :17:37.and now they have to decide how to make it work. Had the same time,

:17:37. > :17:41.the Conservative Party, David Cameron has a job with his own MPs

:17:41. > :17:46.to ensure he comes up with the way forward as well. They have to get

:17:46. > :17:51.together now, work together, come up and support the majority in

:17:51. > :17:56.parliament. They have to transmit that majority in parliament into a

:17:56. > :18:01.majority in favour of a way forward for this Bill. But plenty of

:18:01. > :18:05.Conservative MPs, Conservative rebels and Labour MPs say it the

:18:05. > :18:09.timetable proposed, which was a limit of 10 days to discuss, wasn't

:18:09. > :18:16.long enough. What is going to be long enough, and should this house

:18:16. > :18:19.really be discussing a Lords reform bill for 20, 30, 40 days? That is

:18:19. > :18:23.part of the discussion people must have. Any sensible person would

:18:23. > :18:27.tell you you need some sort of timetable to ensure it gets through

:18:27. > :18:32.Parliament so you don't clog up the works. Now is the time for them to

:18:32. > :18:36.come up with the goods. After all, their parties have supported the

:18:36. > :18:39.move forward and said they want reform, they have voted for it in

:18:39. > :18:43.principle, now they need to come up with the goods, let's hear the

:18:43. > :18:47.answer to the question of how many days they want. This is a question

:18:47. > :18:51.for Miliband and Cameron. They have to fix this to make sure we take

:18:51. > :18:57.for with the will of the House of Commons. A liberal code --

:18:57. > :19:01.Democrats are fuming with -- the Liberal Democrats are fuming with

:19:01. > :19:07.those who said they were going to rebel. What does this mean for the

:19:07. > :19:10.coalition, if you don't get this legislation, is that the end?

:19:10. > :19:13.have a contract for the Conservative Party for this

:19:13. > :19:17.Parliament and we will work together. We have a program written

:19:17. > :19:21.out, whichever body signed up to, and there are things we felt

:19:21. > :19:25.uncomfortable with which we had to vote for and they had to do the

:19:25. > :19:28.same -- which everybody signed up to. It is down to the party

:19:28. > :19:33.leadership to ensure they delivered, which is why having a pause makes

:19:33. > :19:39.it work. So a deal is a deal, but is that -- if that doesn't happen,

:19:39. > :19:42.is the coalition finished? This is a deal, and it is down to the

:19:42. > :19:46.Conservative Party to deliver the deal, and I will wait to see what

:19:46. > :19:51.he proposes, because he clearly knows he has a problem, that is

:19:51. > :19:55.self-evident, but how he approaches it is what we are having this pause

:19:55. > :19:58.for, this time to reflect. But of course it is a strong message to

:19:58. > :20:01.David Cameron that we have to get something through this parliament,

:20:01. > :20:06.because that is the will of Parliament. That is what they said

:20:07. > :20:10.last night, now you have to make it work. Lord German, thank you.

:20:10. > :20:14.The UK government is devolving responsibility for council tax

:20:14. > :20:17.rebates to the Welsh Government under the welfare changes which

:20:17. > :20:22.mean the work -- and the Welsh Government says it has been done in

:20:22. > :20:28.haste and it will not receive the information from Westminster until

:20:28. > :20:32.November with implication -- it due to start in 20th April 13. Cheryl

:20:32. > :20:36.Gillan says the Welsh Government will be kept informed. Mark Hannaby

:20:36. > :20:42.spoke to local government minister, Carl Sargeant.

:20:42. > :20:47.How well council tax benefit change? The UK government are

:20:47. > :20:51.passing the duty over to the Welsh Government with a lot less cash as

:20:51. > :20:56.well, around 10 per cent minimum reduction in the core funding for

:20:56. > :21:00.delivery, and still dispute about that, whether it will be 10 or 14

:21:00. > :21:05.per cent. People might find it hard to get their head around

:21:05. > :21:10.percentages. What difference will it make in terms of delivery?

:21:10. > :21:15.�70 odd of difference to a family income, which is significant for

:21:15. > :21:18.people and the way they live their lives. Remember this is not about

:21:18. > :21:24.unemployment benefit but people's benefit to support them living in

:21:24. > :21:27.property, and this will have a huge effect across huge swathes of Wales.

:21:28. > :21:32.This kicks in next year, so you have to make contingency plans for

:21:32. > :21:37.how you will take on that responsibility. What would you do?

:21:37. > :21:40.Welfare reform is a big quantum unknown, still. We had discussions

:21:40. > :21:44.with Iain Duncan Smith in Westminster about the core funding

:21:44. > :21:47.for council tax benefit and the Social Fund, and we don't know what

:21:47. > :21:51.the core is or what the administration value is to

:21:51. > :21:54.distribute it, or actually the way we will do this. I am very

:21:54. > :21:59.concerned that by April in next year we have a scheme we are able

:21:59. > :22:03.to deliver. With so many unknowns it is very challenging. Don't you

:22:03. > :22:09.have to Plan B on the unknowns? You can't assume you will get much out

:22:09. > :22:13.of the UK government. You have to make your and arrangements.

:22:13. > :22:17.accept that we will get less money. I don't support the principle, but

:22:17. > :22:22.there we are. The issue of 10 per cent or 14 per cent will be

:22:22. > :22:26.discussed. For me, the administration work this will cause

:22:26. > :22:31.to local authorities about how to distribute something with an

:22:31. > :22:35.unknown, will be challenging. We are doing that already, working

:22:35. > :22:38.with local authorities to see how we can best provide a service, but

:22:38. > :22:43.with no money to fund its jet, or an unknown quantity, that is very

:22:43. > :22:47.difficult as I am sure you appreciate -- find it yet. How far

:22:47. > :22:51.down the line are you in terms of continuing to Dr Iain Duncan Smith

:22:51. > :22:56.at Westminster and negotiating with local authorities? We have been

:22:56. > :23:00.working on a weekly basis for the Department for it and pensions to

:23:00. > :23:04.tease out the numbers. I met Iain Duncan Smith just over a week ago -

:23:04. > :23:10.- the Department for a can pensions. The numbers are still difficult to

:23:10. > :23:13.work out going forward. But the Local Government Association and

:23:14. > :23:17.finance teams for local government are working closely to try to

:23:17. > :23:22.create certainty around and all Wales scheme, which is what we

:23:22. > :23:26.intend to do, and we are working hard to achieve it. Do we have

:23:26. > :23:30.higher numbers of council tax benefit in Wales than the rest of

:23:30. > :23:37.the UK? The issue will be a disproportionate number more people

:23:37. > :23:41.affected in Wales, single people having an impact, it had an impact

:23:41. > :23:46.on their livelihoods. We have to try and deal with it. -- having an

:23:46. > :23:50.impact. While you are here, I must ask you about the motion late by

:23:50. > :23:55.the three opposition parties of no confidence in the health minister.

:23:55. > :23:59.How do you react to that? -- the motion late. That is rubbish. He is

:23:59. > :24:03.an excellent minister who has done great things in the financial

:24:03. > :24:09.aspects, which was pushed on us by Westminster. It is nonsense and it

:24:09. > :24:13.is the opposition parties tried to make mischief. Nonsense or not, it

:24:13. > :24:17.will change the Confederation of the parties and make it harder for

:24:17. > :24:24.your government to deliver. -- Configuration. They need to ask why

:24:24. > :24:27.we have �1.7 billion less in our budget in Wales. We have done it --

:24:27. > :24:31.make a fundamental change in public service before we get failure. I

:24:31. > :24:35.believe the services do their best in doing that. But you want to move

:24:35. > :24:39.your programme forward and this makes it harder. The money is the

:24:39. > :24:43.equivalent of 13 authorities getting nothing at all. When there

:24:43. > :24:48.is no more the -- more money in the Percy cannot get more out, so you

:24:48. > :24:50.need to do things differently. This is how we are doing it. -- more

:24:50. > :24:54.money in the purse you cannot get more out.

:24:54. > :24:59.Carl Sargeant robust as usual there. A quick chat with the guests before

:24:59. > :25:04.we get on to health. Council tax rebates, what did you make of what

:25:04. > :25:08.the minister said? Desperate stuff from the Minister again. He is

:25:08. > :25:12.whingeing about having six months' notice to implement something, but

:25:12. > :25:18.it is exactly the same minister who gave bus companies less than three

:25:18. > :25:22.months' notice to deliver something they only had -- they have a

:25:22. > :25:25.contractual obligation to give six months' notice to and services on,

:25:25. > :25:29.so it is desperate. We need to see ministers taking responsibility for

:25:29. > :25:34.their job rather than incessantly passing the buck back to

:25:34. > :25:40.Westminster. Grow up, take responsibility. Okay, as robust as

:25:40. > :25:45.the minister himself, but on that subject, Carl Sargeant, I just

:25:45. > :25:51.wrote down some of the things he said that you are in opposition.

:25:51. > :25:55."chances, nonsense, rubbish ." He says the UK government, which will

:25:55. > :26:01.parties are in, has given the Assembly even less money. I would

:26:01. > :26:09.say, shabby on their part. I will write that down now! I have to say

:26:09. > :26:13.they have very short memories. 57 trillion pounds of debt, �100

:26:13. > :26:20.million a day in interest, no wonder we are in this state. They

:26:20. > :26:24.have to answer to that. That the sides, he didn't think much of your

:26:24. > :26:29.plan to call a vote of no confidence in health minister.

:26:29. > :26:32.is not unexpected, really, is it? As has so that the beginning this

:26:32. > :26:35.is about scrutiny and our responsibility to bring the

:26:35. > :26:39.government to task -- as I said at the beginning. We are not happy

:26:39. > :26:43.with the health minister and it is our job to question it, and we will

:26:43. > :26:48.do that. There was an opportunity yesterday, wasn't there, to ask the

:26:48. > :26:52.First Minister and the Health Minister about this. Yes. What did

:26:52. > :26:56.you make of the way they responded to questions? It is appalling. They

:26:56. > :27:00.have come out all guns blazing on the attack and accused the

:27:00. > :27:04.opposition parties have been shabby, but the truth is, it is our job to

:27:04. > :27:08.provide scrutiny of the work the government does on behalf of the

:27:08. > :27:12.people of Wales. If we feel they are doing that poorly, we should

:27:12. > :27:16.ask them questions. Neither the Minister nor the First Minister

:27:16. > :27:23.answered a single question. It is no wonder we have no confidence in

:27:23. > :27:30.her. We have no idea what her justification is. Lesley Griffiths

:27:30. > :27:33.was saying yesterday in response to questions... The First Minister

:27:33. > :27:37.said in response to Leanne Wood from Plaid Cymru, showers the

:27:37. > :27:43.evidence of collusion, that was the main accusation -- Show as the

:27:43. > :27:50.evidence, and she says there was no evidence and the report was

:27:50. > :27:59.transparent. Kirsty Williams gave her repeated examples of the report

:27:59. > :28:03.author asking for"killer facts", Welsh Government officials asking

:28:03. > :28:07.the report also there to make a more persuasive vision. This isn't

:28:07. > :28:11.data, this isn't information, this is leading the report to a

:28:11. > :28:16.particular conclusion, and that is clear evidence of collusion. It is

:28:16. > :28:20.not acceptable to them for a that back in the faces... It doesn't

:28:20. > :28:24.mean the minister knew anything about it. Then it is a question of

:28:24. > :28:27.her competence or her judgment. She should know what officials are

:28:27. > :28:31.doing in their names. This is the director of the health department.

:28:31. > :28:36.If she doesn't know, there is a confidence question to answer.

:28:36. > :28:39.We are out of time. Thank you for joining us today. That is all from