:00:25. > :00:29.Good morning and welcome to the programme. Unemployment is likely
:00:29. > :00:34.at in Wales and West Wales and the valleys are relatively poorer than
:00:34. > :00:38.they were a decade ago, according to official figures. Sorry to start
:00:38. > :00:44.the day with gloomy news. We will be at Prime Minister's Questions
:00:44. > :00:49.with Nick Clegg standing in for David current -- David Cameron. And
:00:49. > :00:52.the Welsh Government dismisses European statistics on economic
:00:52. > :00:57.prosperity in West Wales and the valleys as particularly misleading.
:00:57. > :01:07.And on his final full day of -- as leader of Plaid Cymru, I will be
:01:07. > :01:12.speaking with the former Deputy First Minister, Ieuan Wyn Jones.
:01:12. > :01:18.I am joined by a couple of Assembly Members, Simon Thomas and Suzy
:01:18. > :01:20.Davis. Good morning. We will speak about the Welsh Government is
:01:20. > :01:26.missing the European cities is sticks in a moment but first we
:01:26. > :01:33.have had the latest unemployment figures this morning -- European
:01:34. > :01:39.statistics. Unemployment went up by 1,000 in
:01:39. > :01:46.Wales. No one was to see rises in unemployment but there is a third
:01:46. > :01:53.consecutive rise in employment. Economic inactivity is changing as
:01:53. > :01:56.well. Things are starting to change but there is still a long way to go.
:01:57. > :02:02.You will see this as good news. Simon Thomas, what is your
:02:02. > :02:06.interpretation? It is not working. We have not had the growth we have
:02:06. > :02:16.expected. The next Budget needs to be a Budget for growth. Also, the
:02:16. > :02:19.
:02:19. > :02:24.Welsh have met needs to -- Welsh Government needs to change tactics.
:02:24. > :02:31.The fact is the Government needs to be far more proactive about capital
:02:31. > :02:35.project in Wales. The Government in Cardiff Bay
:02:35. > :02:41.Chardonnay win-win situation. If it goes up, it blames the UK
:02:41. > :02:46.Government. But the Government has to interact much more creatively
:02:46. > :02:50.with Westminster. We know that Labour do not want to support the
:02:50. > :02:56.Tory agenda but we have to interact with them to get the best deal for
:02:56. > :03:01.Wales. There are still some issues that could be a big boost to the
:03:01. > :03:03.economy and we need to see the Welsh Government taking the lead.
:03:03. > :03:08.Simon thinks your Government in Westminster should be doing more.
:03:08. > :03:18.Do you think George Osborne will change his plans in the Budget
:03:18. > :03:22.packs we? -- next week. We have growth improvement in Wales. It was
:03:22. > :03:28.always come to be a slow turnaround. As for the statement, we will have
:03:28. > :03:32.to wait and see. Let's move on to these GDP figures yesterday. Simon,
:03:32. > :03:38.I will begin with the one does. The Government has labelled those
:03:38. > :03:45.figures relatively misleading. 10 years ago, when will started
:03:45. > :03:50.receiving this money, GDP was in the late 70s. Now it is around 60 %
:03:50. > :03:55.-- 68 %. Are they misleading? could argue that they are
:03:55. > :03:57.misleading in terms of commuter terms. But the fact is these
:03:57. > :04:02.statistics have been the same statistics for 10 years. They are
:04:02. > :04:06.not misleading if you compare them across that range. They may be
:04:06. > :04:11.misleading as a whole picture but if you look at 10 years ago, and
:04:11. > :04:16.where we are now, they are not misleading. The Government is happy
:04:16. > :04:19.to receive money on the basis of these statistics. They show clearly
:04:19. > :04:24.that they -- there are parts of Wales that are not a struggling,
:04:24. > :04:27.they are being ignored by both the Welsh Government and the UK
:04:27. > :04:32.Government, in terms of building those economies. It is difficult
:04:33. > :04:36.work to do but we need to address that. Does it show that the Welsh
:04:36. > :04:42.Government whether it is Labour or Labour would Plaid Cymru, Labour
:04:42. > :04:50.with liberal Democrats, has failed to make the most of these objective
:04:50. > :04:54.One fans? They still show a pretty poor picture for parts of Wales.
:04:54. > :04:59.There are things that can be done. For example, in South Wales West,
:04:59. > :05:03.covered by these figures, millions of pounds have gone into the
:05:03. > :05:06.western valleys regeneration area and they go through so many
:05:06. > :05:09.different layers of Government and so many different organisations. So
:05:09. > :05:17.much of that money is lost before it gets anywhere near the front
:05:17. > :05:22.line. There are changes that could have been made. We were leaving
:05:22. > :05:28.their for now. We will be back with you shortly. -- we will leave it
:05:28. > :05:33.there for now. Good morning. I hope things are
:05:33. > :05:37.going well at in the studio. We have another interesting day today.
:05:37. > :05:41.This afternoon, questions to ministers. Today, it is the turn of
:05:41. > :05:48.the Education Minister, Leighton Andrews and Carl Sargeant to take
:05:48. > :05:51.those questions. We will have been other parties suggesting that there
:05:51. > :05:56.debate. Today we have the Welsh Conservatives London to talk about
:05:56. > :06:00.business rates. They are very concerned about businesses is
:06:00. > :06:05.proving a great obstacle to small businesses in the current economic
:06:05. > :06:10.climate. They want to see business rates removed from those businesses
:06:10. > :06:17.which have a ratable value of up to �12,000 per year. They think it
:06:17. > :06:21.will help baby -- people invest in staff and develop.
:06:21. > :06:26.Following that debate, we have got Plaid Cymru's debate. We have --
:06:26. > :06:30.that is marking the progress made in devolution over the past 10
:06:30. > :06:35.years. It is quite an appropriate
:06:35. > :06:39.Stocktake to do won the day that marks the last full day in charge
:06:39. > :06:46.of Ieuan Wyn Jones. He has been the leader for nearly 12 years. I am
:06:46. > :06:50.hoping to catch up with him later After that today, we have the
:06:50. > :06:54.Liberal Democrats and fair and nominating the subject of housing
:06:54. > :07:01.and how difficult it is to get on the housing ladder -- are they are
:07:01. > :07:04.nominated. The main difficulty being people not being able to get
:07:04. > :07:09.together a deposit to buy a house in the first place. The Liberal
:07:09. > :07:13.Democrats would like to see some kind of facility whereby the state
:07:13. > :07:19.guarantees mortgage deposits. I hope to talk to the Assembly Member
:07:19. > :07:29.for North Wales, Aled Roberts, and later on. Then we have the short
:07:29. > :07:30.
:07:30. > :07:38.debate,. -- it will be looking at how Wales is funded.
:07:38. > :07:42.You can find out what is happening on Democracy Live. The address is
:07:42. > :07:47.on the screen like now. A smorgasbord of activity in the
:07:48. > :07:54.Chamber later on. We will start with you, Simon. Ieuan Wyn Jones's
:07:54. > :08:01.last full day in office. He is leading a date about Wales's
:08:01. > :08:06.constitutional position. -- debate. This allows us to recognise his
:08:06. > :08:09.work right from the start. He has helped the Assembly grow and mature.
:08:09. > :08:12.We want to acknowledge the work that has happened in the last 10
:08:12. > :08:19.years. It is an opportunity for members to look at that on the way
:08:19. > :08:21.forward as well. The time has come now, we do not talk about
:08:21. > :08:27.constitutional change for the sake of it, we're talking about what we
:08:27. > :08:34.can do with the tools we have in Wales. We will be getting more
:08:34. > :08:37.tools in the next five years. The question is, how do we use them?
:08:37. > :08:45.Stalker that economic matters. Your party has a debate on business
:08:45. > :08:52.rates. -- let's talk about economic matters. It may be says about where
:08:53. > :08:56.the parties are coming from. It is important. But we should stay --
:08:56. > :09:02.say, let the commission get on with it and we can talk about the stigma.
:09:02. > :09:12.But I take your point. It is Ieuan Wyn Jones's last day. This is not
:09:12. > :09:14.
:09:14. > :09:21.going away. Small and medium-sized businesses are saying this will
:09:21. > :09:24.make a huge difference to their abilities. You can see all of those
:09:24. > :09:32.debates on Democracy Live. Have a look at that later on. That is the
:09:32. > :09:37.agenda in Cardiff Bay. What's going on in Westminster? No David Cameron
:09:37. > :09:47.at Prime Minister's Questions today. Nick Clegg standing in. He has been
:09:47. > :10:00.
:10:00. > :10:04.what to -- been to watch a war game Absolutely. It has been slightly
:10:04. > :10:13.overshadowed in terms of British newspapers by the arrests of two of
:10:13. > :10:17.his good friends, Rebekah Brooks and her husband. Both arrested on
:10:17. > :10:23.suspicion of perverting the course of justice. Both released without
:10:23. > :10:28.bail. No charges. Both deny any criminal offences. But clearly
:10:28. > :10:32.quite embarrassing for the Prime Minister to see that two of his
:10:32. > :10:35.friends and neighbours in Oxfordshire have been actually
:10:36. > :10:40.interviewed by the police in connection with some quite serious
:10:40. > :10:44.allegations. He might be quite pleased he is the other side of the
:10:44. > :10:48.Atlantic. There are some very serious
:10:48. > :10:52.discussions to be had a date on the future of the mission in
:10:52. > :11:01.Afghanistan. -- Today. Those discussions will be given added
:11:01. > :11:08.impetus given the incident last week, the death of six British
:11:08. > :11:18.soldiers. And that the weekend, the news that an American serviceman
:11:18. > :11:21.
:11:21. > :11:31.had shot and killed 16 members of... 11 members of one family in one
:11:31. > :11:32.
:11:32. > :11:37.village. It is not proving easy to get out
:11:37. > :11:41.of Afghanistan. They will bring forward a pull-out date to perhaps
:11:41. > :11:46.next year. But again, it is it difficult to announce a date and
:11:46. > :11:51.not leave yourself a target. There will be some serious talking
:11:51. > :11:59.between the President and the Prime Minister today. We have does it
:11:59. > :12:07.best discussed it already. Unemployment. Overall, in the UK,
:12:07. > :12:12.slightly up. It is a huge number out of work, particularly if you're
:12:12. > :12:18.about to lose your job, a very serious figure. But the Government
:12:18. > :12:21.cautiously does seem -- does see some encouraging signs. In the last
:12:21. > :12:26.three months, the number of people finding jobs in the private sector
:12:26. > :12:30.has actually exceeded the number losing those in the public sector.
:12:30. > :12:40.Art is something that is good for the public -- Government's finances.
:12:40. > :12:46.A couple of green shoots but still a long way to go.
:12:46. > :12:54.The news breaking this morning, half-past nine, St Asaph has
:12:54. > :13:00.achieved city status. I know how much they had talked about it and
:13:00. > :13:07.how much they wanted it. Great excitement from the local MP.
:13:07. > :13:12.Cheryl Gillan also played a part in this decision. St Asaph one of
:13:13. > :13:17.three new cities in Britain to mark the Diamond Jubilee. Interestingly,
:13:17. > :13:25.the rules initially said there was any good to be one new city. But lo
:13:25. > :13:31.and behold, they have come up with three.
:13:31. > :13:37.Rather like the gold jubilee celebrations 10 years ago when to
:13:37. > :13:45.avoid offending anybody, they decided to have call of the UK. In
:13:45. > :13:51.that case, it was Newport. St Asaph will finally be known as more than
:13:51. > :13:55.a place where you went to school! Thank you for the time being. We'll
:13:55. > :14:05.catch up with you during Prime Minister's Questions. Why don't you
:14:05. > :14:19.
:14:19. > :14:27.get in touch with us? The address I read that out every week. I do
:14:27. > :14:33.not know why I got it wrong! Let's have a chat about city status.
:14:33. > :14:41.Wrexham and stink -- St Asaph were going head-to-head. It was his
:14:41. > :14:45.surprise to me. I do not know if it makes a difference. Wrexham is
:14:45. > :14:55.still a town in north-east Wales. I always thought that St Asaph was a
:14:55. > :14:56.
:14:56. > :14:59.city. It is an ecclesiastical City. It has a lovely cathedral. A lovely
:14:59. > :15:06.place to visit as well. Are you pleased to hear that news this
:15:06. > :15:12.morning? It is lovely. I thought it already was a city. But it is an
:15:12. > :15:17.ecclesiastical City. You are just kicks -- explain that. Wrexham has
:15:17. > :15:26.been given bilingual town status. Congratulations to St Asaph. It is
:15:26. > :15:34.live been used. -- lovely news. wish I had put some money on it,
:15:34. > :15:38.considering how much money and lost Tomorrow, the UK government
:15:38. > :15:41.launches its plans for same-sex marriage. The issue has already
:15:41. > :15:46.caused controversy with some religious groups. Cardinal Keith
:15:46. > :15:49.O'Brien, the head of the Catholic Church in Scotland, called the Plan
:15:49. > :15:53.A grotesque. Our reporter has been speaking to two Welsh MPs about the
:15:53. > :15:58.plan. Senior members of the Church say
:15:58. > :16:06.the sanctuary of marriage should not be touched. That is not the
:16:06. > :16:14.view of the UK government. Joining the art to MPs -- joining the are
:16:14. > :16:19.two MPs. Firstly, this is a Lib Dem policy, you could say. It has been
:16:19. > :16:23.a long time coming, why is that? think the government is taking its
:16:23. > :16:26.time to make sure it is completely right. Clearly, this is a
:16:26. > :16:31.contentious issue with strongly held feelings on both sides, and it
:16:31. > :16:36.is important the details on the consultation paper are right.
:16:36. > :16:42.should the marriage laws be reformed? Same-sex couples can have
:16:42. > :16:48.civil partnerships can -- which give them the same rights in terms
:16:48. > :16:53.of inheritance and things. There a lot of very loving same-sex couples
:16:53. > :16:59.who feels strongly that they want to show that publicly, within
:16:59. > :17:03.marriage rather than just a civil partnership. We're not talking
:17:03. > :17:07.about imposing on religious organisations, like the Catholic
:17:07. > :17:11.Church or the Church of England, that they have to allow them. This
:17:11. > :17:16.is about civil marriage but allowing same-sex couples the same
:17:16. > :17:19.right to express their love for each other that we currently allow
:17:19. > :17:26.heterosexual current -- couples. Simon, do you think they should
:17:26. > :17:30.have the right to marry? I think we should take time over the
:17:30. > :17:33.consultation, we should not compel anybody in this particular area.
:17:33. > :17:36.But the government has made a big thing about the value of marriage
:17:36. > :17:42.and it does not make sense to exclude certain categories from
:17:42. > :17:48.that arrangement. I am fully behind it. And what do you say to the
:17:48. > :17:53.Cardinal's description that gay marriage would be grotesque? Well,
:17:53. > :17:56.I'm afraid he's out of sync with 21st Century Society. I know this
:17:56. > :18:03.is controversial and not everybody is absolutely certain about it,
:18:03. > :18:07.that is why there is a consultation. But there are plenty its -- plenty
:18:07. > :18:12.of examples of a very loving couples and there should be no
:18:12. > :18:16.stigma attached to that. It is mystifying, what the cardinal said.
:18:16. > :18:22.It is divisive and discriminatory and totally out of place today.
:18:22. > :18:25.What do you think about those comments? Obviously, people within
:18:25. > :18:29.religious organisations feel strongly about marriage remaining
:18:29. > :18:33.untouched as a tease. They also feel strongly about divorce and
:18:33. > :18:38.they feel that has no place in a religious organisation, which is
:18:38. > :18:41.why divorcees are not allowed to remarry in most churches. That does
:18:41. > :18:45.not stop us from allowing people who are divorced from getting
:18:45. > :18:52.remarried in a civil service, and that is recognised by the Church. I
:18:52. > :18:55.feel the same applies here. There is no proposal to force religious
:18:56. > :18:59.organisations to allow same-sex marriage, but I feel some of the
:18:59. > :19:06.language that is being used is rather over the top. I think we're
:19:06. > :19:09.talking about people who want to get married and believe it is an
:19:09. > :19:19.important bedrock in society and want to be part of that. This will
:19:19. > :19:22.not underlie marriage, this will enable them to become part of it.
:19:22. > :19:25.Simon, Conservatives have been promised a free vote on the issue.
:19:25. > :19:29.There are a number of Tory backbenchers who are unhappy with
:19:29. > :19:35.this idea. How strong do you think the voice of opposition really is?
:19:35. > :19:40.I think there are few, not that many, actually. Most people in both
:19:40. > :19:43.the Lib Dem and Conservative parties realise that people should
:19:43. > :19:48.be able to express their views loudly if they so wish. I'm
:19:48. > :19:52.confident that at the end of it, the majority view in here will be
:19:52. > :19:57.for this to go through. So even though there would be a free vote
:19:57. > :20:01.for Conservatives, you think the majority would stick with David
:20:01. > :20:05.Cameron and the government? I think if it was a whip to vote for a free
:20:05. > :20:08.vote, actually, the result would be much the same. The majority would
:20:08. > :20:16.take the view that this is a measure which we should be
:20:16. > :20:25.encouraging. Thank you very much. Let us see what the view of the
:20:25. > :20:29.Assembly members is. Suzy Davies, what is your view? I am with him on
:20:30. > :20:35.this one, especially in terms of legal rights and responsibilities.
:20:35. > :20:40.There is no difference at the moment anyway. But when you walk on
:20:40. > :20:46.to the territory of religion, the subject becomes more complicated,
:20:46. > :20:52.and as was said earlier, there will be no obligation on any religion to
:20:52. > :20:59.insure that gay marriage takes place within their church. But in
:20:59. > :21:09.terms of equal opportunities, it is obvious. Simon, the comments of the
:21:09. > :21:16.cardinal really threw fuel on the fire of this debate, didn't they?
:21:16. > :21:26.It is unfortunate, what he is saying. I think that is an
:21:26. > :21:26.
:21:26. > :21:31.unfortunate word to use - grotesque. I think civil ceremonies should be
:21:31. > :21:35.open to all couples of whichever orientation. When you get a
:21:35. > :21:38.religious marriages, that is a matter for the church or mosque or
:21:38. > :21:42.whatever concerned, and they have their own at ceremonies. We just
:21:42. > :21:46.have to be clear about what is applied in each case and the
:21:46. > :21:53.Cardinal should know better than to address the issues we are dealing
:21:53. > :21:58.with here, which are the civil, secular ceremonies. There does seem
:21:58. > :22:03.to be consensus, certainly from politicians if not clergymen.
:22:03. > :22:07.I think there is. All parties one is to go ahead on the basis of
:22:07. > :22:11.equality. I don't think anyone wants there to be a difference, a
:22:11. > :22:16.material difference, between the sort of partnership you have with
:22:16. > :22:20.somebody whether they are the same sex or the opposite sex. I don't
:22:20. > :22:26.agree with the teachings of the Church but it is up to them to
:22:26. > :22:32.promulgate the teaching if they want. That is the difference
:22:32. > :22:37.between a secular society and a society dominated by any religion.
:22:37. > :22:40.I think especially in Wales we don't have an established church so
:22:40. > :22:49.it -- so we are even in a better position to try to differentiate
:22:49. > :22:55.between Church and State. Suzy Davies, we have seen the Archbishop
:22:55. > :23:01.of Wales giving opinions on organ donation and other issues. I think
:23:01. > :23:11.in some cases the opinions of the judge a welcome, and in others not
:23:11. > :23:12.
:23:12. > :23:17.so much! Well, at any member of the clergy may have an opinion on
:23:17. > :23:21.political matters, but Simon is right. As lawmakers, we have to
:23:21. > :23:26.make laws on the basis of civic society, because that is where our
:23:26. > :23:32.area of influences. Religions have their own area and their own way of
:23:32. > :23:40.operating. That is why this issue is so complicated. We will be back
:23:40. > :23:44.for a chat in a moment. Now, back to mark in the Oriel with news on
:23:44. > :23:48.today's debates. Yes, it is all about housing, the
:23:48. > :23:57.crucial issue of how people get on the lousing -- the housing ladder
:23:57. > :24:02.when it is so difficult to get a deposit. I'm joined by a Lib Dem MP
:24:02. > :24:07.here. That is the problem, isn't it - deposits. The Lib Dems want to
:24:07. > :24:10.see the state somehow or enabling a guarantee of a mortgage deposit?
:24:10. > :24:14.Yes, there are local authorities throughout Wales authorising their
:24:14. > :24:17.own schemes, but we are looking for the Welsh government to set up a
:24:17. > :24:22.national scheme to tackle this problem. We have issues at the
:24:22. > :24:28.moment regarding the supply of housing, where lot of developers
:24:28. > :24:32.are land banking. But after that, the issue of affordability. Clearly,
:24:32. > :24:36.banks and building societies are clear and -- are not providing
:24:36. > :24:40.mortgages at rates people can afford. And this would have a
:24:40. > :24:43.knock-on effect as well for the housing industry? Yes, it could be
:24:43. > :24:48.seen as a mean of unlocking some of the problems we are currently
:24:48. > :24:54.experiencing. Gone are the days when you could get a 90 or 95%
:24:54. > :24:58.mortgage. We currently have many banks looking at perhaps 30 or 40%
:24:58. > :25:04.- 50% in the most general cases. And in reality without a government
:25:04. > :25:11.scheme, the reality is most young families are unable to afford that
:25:11. > :25:14.level of deposit. And that then leads to issues on housing waiting
:25:14. > :25:19.lists. I suppose many will sympathise with the predicament of
:25:19. > :25:24.those people. But they may be concerned about the tax payer
:25:24. > :25:32.taking a risk for them - do you sympathise with those concerns?
:25:32. > :25:37.What we are calling for today is a look at people who want to get onto
:25:37. > :25:41.the housing ladder and also more action from the Welsh government
:25:41. > :25:49.with regard to affordable homes. Clearly, that involves homes for
:25:49. > :25:53.rent for those people are who perhaps with hindsight would never
:25:53. > :25:58.have gotten into home ownership and perhaps with the bubble that has
:25:58. > :26:00.recently burst should never have gotten into it. There is also a
:26:00. > :26:04.question about what local authorities can do about council
:26:04. > :26:08.tax. I gather you are looking at council tax on empty properties,
:26:08. > :26:13.for example, presumably as a way for there to be an incentive for
:26:14. > :26:18.those properties to come back into use? Very much so. We're saying
:26:18. > :26:21.there are examples of good practice in Wales. I am proud that in my own
:26:21. > :26:28.region we have a good record of bringing up empty properties into
:26:28. > :26:32.use. But that needs to be copied throughout Wales. As I said, there
:26:33. > :26:37.is a whole basket of issues that we are calling on the government to
:26:37. > :26:41.address on a national basis so that we can insure the housing sector is
:26:41. > :26:46.responsive to the needs of young families. Getting back to that key
:26:46. > :26:50.idea of the mortgage deposit, is there more big problem here in
:26:50. > :26:54.Wales than elsewhere in the UK? I know it is something the UK
:26:54. > :26:57.government is looking out across the UK, David Cameron was talking
:26:57. > :27:01.about it the other day. But here in Wales we know that our housing
:27:01. > :27:06.stock is not particularly good. Properties that we have are in many
:27:06. > :27:10.cases older than they are elsewhere. Yes, but what we are saying is the
:27:10. > :27:19.vast majority of deposit schemes actually getting new homes. So
:27:19. > :27:26.there. There is we need to get a head start on all the properties.
:27:26. > :27:30.There are up risk elements, but that is what they need to consider.
:27:31. > :27:35.Do you think there will be a degree of cross-party support on this?
:27:35. > :27:39.think the opposition parties in particular are keen to see movement
:27:39. > :27:43.on housing. Whether the Housing Minister himself, given his track
:27:43. > :27:46.record up to now, will actually go to the full extent of considering
:27:46. > :27:53.this on a national level is a matter we will have to see this
:27:53. > :27:58.afternoon. Thank you very much for your time.
:27:58. > :28:04.We will be off to the Commons in a moment. We will have a quick
:28:04. > :28:08.guessing game with a guess about what might come up. Win him -- we
:28:08. > :28:13.know Nick Clegg might be standing in for David Cameron. Would you
:28:13. > :28:17.like to see him fall flat on his face? Of course not. He is in the
:28:17. > :28:25.Prime Minister's shoes today and I expect him to do well. Willie get
:28:25. > :28:35.grief from some of the Conservative backbenchers? -- will he get grief?
:28:35. > :28:44.
:28:44. > :28:49.I suppose this will be an opportunity. Simon? Ed Miliband
:28:49. > :28:54.will be facing up against Nick Clegg. He seems to have had a bit
:28:54. > :29:00.more joy lately. What is in store for an end today? Ed Miliband has
:29:00. > :29:05.had a couple of good run out. It will be difficult with Nick Clegg.
:29:06. > :29:10.I'm sure he will be attacked for not turning up to the important NHS
:29:10. > :29:15.rally. I think what will be interesting is whether Ed Miliband
:29:15. > :29:19.can drive a wedge between Clegg's position on the reforms and some of
:29:20. > :29:25.his Lib Dem backbenchers. I think Yesterday in Parliament there was
:29:25. > :29:29.criticism of the bill, so it will be interesting to see about that.
:29:29. > :29:33.think it will be Harriet Harman, actually, today. The two deputies
:29:33. > :29:40.against each other! That doesn't mean Ed Miliband won't get
:29:40. > :29:46.attacked! I think Afghanistan will also come up in international terms,
:29:46. > :29:55.that is that subject of the debate at the moment between Barack Obama
:29:56. > :30:01.and David Cameron. Do you think the Conservatives on the backbenchers
:30:01. > :30:06.will be worried that Nick Clegg might just be forwarding some of
:30:06. > :30:11.the Lib Dem successes in government rather than Conservative ones?
:30:11. > :30:13.all successes are coalitions excesses! Obviously, Nick Clegg
:30:13. > :30:17.will have his own particular questions today. I don't know if he
:30:17. > :30:22.will spend too much time on the housing reforms. That story has
:30:22. > :30:28.been done to death. I think Labour think they are getting some joy for
:30:29. > :30:32.it. Well, are they? I don't know if people watching it will be terribly
:30:32. > :30:39.interested in to it -- in it today. But it began as Dan is likely to
:30:40. > :30:48.come up and we may get something on the employment figures today.
:30:48. > :30:58.Bachman -- Afghanistan is likely to come up. Well, let us crossover to
:30:58. > :31:02.
:31:02. > :31:12.Let's cross over to Westminster. Good afternoon.
:31:12. > :31:13.
:31:13. > :31:17.You're just watching the end of International Development questions.
:31:17. > :31:21.The Right Honourable Gentleman has a long and distinguished experience
:31:21. > :31:26.in this area. He is entirely right. We will be meeting on Monday. I
:31:26. > :31:36.have seen for myself be way in which they are working to alleviate
:31:36. > :31:38.
:31:38. > :31:48.suffering and promote the matter in -- elsewhere.
:31:48. > :31:53.I have been asked to reply. The Prime Minister is meeting with
:31:53. > :31:56.Barack Obama. I am sure the house will be wishing to send our deepest
:31:56. > :32:06.condolences to the family and friends of the servicemen who died
:32:06. > :32:14.
:32:14. > :32:19.They were all from the third Battalion of the Yorkshire Regiment.
:32:19. > :32:23.These were men of outstanding courage and selflessness. This
:32:23. > :32:31.tragic incident will be long remembered by a our nation. It
:32:31. > :32:38.reminds us of the immense danger our armed forces regularly endure.
:32:38. > :32:42.Mr Speaker, we also -- we are also deeply shocked at the number of
:32:42. > :32:46.Afghan civilians killed and wounded on Sunday morning. We send our
:32:46. > :32:52.sincere sympathies to the victims and families affected by this
:32:52. > :32:59.terrible incident. This morning, I had meetings and I will have
:32:59. > :33:03.further such meetings later today. I would like to associate myself
:33:03. > :33:08.with the Deputy Prime Minister's comments about the tragic events in
:33:08. > :33:11.Afghanistan. I am sure that members on both sides of the House express
:33:11. > :33:16.our deepest sympathies to the families who have lost loved ones
:33:16. > :33:23.at this distressing time. Today, the Prime Minister is in
:33:23. > :33:29.America where unemployment is coming down, the economy is growing.
:33:29. > :33:32.In Britain, unemployment is at its highest for 17 years. The economy
:33:32. > :33:41.is flat mining. Can the Deputy Prime Minister
:33:41. > :33:47.explain what has gone wrong? What went wrong was the Labour
:33:47. > :33:52.government for 13 years. They created the most unholy mess in
:33:52. > :33:57.2008 and we are still having to clean it up. The only way to get
:33:57. > :34:00.the economy moving is to fix the deficit, gets bank let pass bank's
:34:00. > :34:10.lending money again and making sure we have a tax and benefit system
:34:10. > :34:18.
:34:18. > :34:22.that pays people to work. We are already introducing a large
:34:22. > :34:26.set of measures that have removed a lot of unnecessary clutter on the
:34:26. > :34:36.statute book. Any further opportunities to do so, we would
:34:36. > :34:58.
:34:58. > :35:00.The these men died in tragic serve -- circumstances, or serving our
:35:00. > :35:06.country with bravery and determination. Their deaths
:35:06. > :35:09.reminders of the great sacrifices our and first is make on our behalf.
:35:09. > :35:13.Our thoughts are with their families. By join with the Deputy
:35:13. > :35:17.Prime is in expressing our horror of the appalling murder in
:35:17. > :35:23.Afghanistan on Sunday of 16 civilians, in children nine
:35:23. > :35:28.children. We all deplore this crime and express our deepest condolences.
:35:28. > :35:33.Today's figures show on employment up and the hardest hit are young
:35:33. > :35:35.people looking for work. And women being thrown out of work. The
:35:35. > :35:41.Deputy Prime Minister says the Liberal Democrats are making a
:35:42. > :35:46.difference in this government. With more than one million women looking
:35:46. > :35:53.for work, or what difference does he believe he has made to those
:35:53. > :35:58.women? Of course, these figures, any increase on an employment is
:35:58. > :36:02.disappointing. It is a personal tragedy for any one losing their
:36:02. > :36:07.job on their families. She should be careful not to pretend this is a
:36:07. > :36:14.problem that was invented by this government. Let's remember that the
:36:14. > :36:21.unemployment of women went up by 24 % under Labour. Youth unemployment
:36:21. > :36:27.went up by 40 %. I suggest we all need to work
:36:27. > :36:32.together to bring unemployment down. When we left government,
:36:32. > :36:37.unemployment was coming down and their economic policy is not only
:36:37. > :36:42.driving it up but it means that they will have to borrow more. It
:36:42. > :36:49.is hurting but it certainly is not working. For all his bluster, the
:36:49. > :36:52.truth is that having five Liberal Democrat -- Liberal Democrats
:36:52. > :36:56.seated round the Cabinet table has made no difference whatsoever.
:36:56. > :37:01.Listen to what the Business Secretary has said on economic
:37:01. > :37:06.policy, this government has no compelling vision. These days, no
:37:06. > :37:16.one agrees with Nick Clegg but does he agree with this does Vince
:37:16. > :37:17.
:37:17. > :37:23.Cable? It is worth considering deny some of the details. Behind the
:37:23. > :37:26.headline figures, long time and applying it actually came down. --
:37:26. > :37:32.unemployment. The number of new jobs created in the private sector
:37:32. > :37:38.outstripped the number of jobs left in the public sector. Under her
:37:38. > :37:43.government, the Labour government sucked up to the city of London and
:37:43. > :37:49.over relied on jobs in the public sector. We are now having to remedy
:37:49. > :37:53.those mistakes and we are creating new jobs in the private sector.
:37:53. > :37:58.He is complacent about unemployment under his government. And the
:37:58. > :38:04.Liberal Democrats are making no difference on unemployment, just as
:38:05. > :38:10.they are making no difference on the NHS. When it comes to the NHS,
:38:10. > :38:14.the Deputy Prime Minister obviously thinks he is doing a stunning job.
:38:14. > :38:19.Can he explain why he has failed to persuade the doctors, the nurses,
:38:19. > :38:25.the midwives, be paediatricians, the physicians, the
:38:25. > :38:34.physiotherapists and the patients? The Labour Party used to believe in
:38:34. > :38:41.reform. Now they believe in a staff in the NHS of cash and failing to
:38:41. > :38:49.perform -- starving. Order. We must hear the response from the Deputy
:38:49. > :38:53.Prime Minister. Indeed. In her own manifesto, it said, to safeguard
:38:53. > :38:59.the NHS in tough fiscal times, we need sustained reform. The Labour
:38:59. > :39:04.Party was right then and is wrong now. What happened?
:39:04. > :39:10.We are proud of what Labour did when we were in power. More doctors,
:39:10. > :39:16.more nurses, no waiting times, greater patient satisfaction and Mr
:39:16. > :39:23.Speaker, no one believes them. No wonder he cannot convince those who
:39:23. > :39:27.macro work in the health service. He cannot persuade his own party.
:39:27. > :39:35.People are still be -- against this Bill because it has not changed one
:39:35. > :39:39.bit. It is still a top-down reorganisation. Order. By selling
:39:39. > :39:48.moment ago that the Deputy Prime Minister's response must be heard -
:39:48. > :39:52.- I said a moment ago. This peerless delay top-down
:39:52. > :40:01.reorganisation. It is still going to cost the NHS a fortune. -- this
:40:01. > :40:04.deal is still a top-down reorganisation. It is clear the
:40:04. > :40:11.Deputy Prime Minister will not stand up for the NHS. The only
:40:11. > :40:18.thing he stands up for his one the Prime Minister walks in the room!
:40:18. > :40:22.Mr Speaker, some of her colleagues must think the Liberal Democrats
:40:22. > :40:25.make a difference because they were handing out leaflets at our
:40:25. > :40:29.conference in Gateshead. Her leader was throwing a sickie and going to
:40:29. > :40:34.watch Hull City play football instead!
:40:34. > :40:38.She says she is proud of their record. Issued out of the fact her
:40:38. > :40:43.government spent �250 million of taxpayers' money on sweetheart
:40:43. > :40:48.deals with the private sector which did not help a single NHS patient?
:40:48. > :40:58.If she prowled of the fact that under the 2006 Act -- a sheep out
:40:58. > :41:03.
:41:04. > :41:13.of the fact, it was the privatise as charter... In she proud of that?
:41:14. > :41:16.
:41:16. > :41:21.In these matters, the Prime Minister or the Deputy Prime
:41:21. > :41:24.Minister does the answering. That is the situation. We will compare
:41:24. > :41:34.what our have demanded on the NHS with what his government is doing
:41:34. > :41:40.
:41:40. > :41:46.any day. -- our government will stop. Her it is within his power to
:41:46. > :41:56.stop this bill. Next Monday, the Bill reaches its final stage in the
:41:56. > :42:06.House of Lords. There are 19 Lib Dem peer has. -- 90. William
:42:06. > :42:13.
:42:13. > :42:23.structure Lee Williams antes Piers to vote the bill her. The response
:42:23. > :42:29.
:42:29. > :42:39.must be heard. It is irresponsible to increase NHS spending. They do
:42:39. > :42:39.
:42:39. > :42:43.not believe for more money for the NHS. We do. They want sweetheart
:42:44. > :42:47.deals with the private sector. We do not. They presided over
:42:47. > :42:53.inequality in the NHS. Again, we are making a statutory obligation
:42:53. > :43:03.in this Bill to deliver a more equal outcome on the NHS. They
:43:03. > :43:09.
:43:09. > :43:14.failed to deliver that in 13 years. Absolute rubbish! And in
:43:14. > :43:20.undermining the NHS and making Shirley Williams vote for it, he
:43:20. > :43:24.has trashed two national treasures. He did not need to sign the bill
:43:24. > :43:29.but he did. He could stop the bill but he won't. He says the Liberal
:43:29. > :43:35.Democrats make a difference but they do not. What has happened to
:43:35. > :43:40.that fine liberal tradition? They must be turning in their graves.
:43:41. > :43:47.The party of William Gladstone, the party of David Lloyd George. Now
:43:47. > :43:51.the party of Nick Clegg. I know she has the Prix de their script which
:43:51. > :43:56.she sticks to religiously, but it is worth having a question and
:43:56. > :43:59.answer session -- pre-prepared. What we are doing on this side of
:43:59. > :44:04.the house, the two parties that have come together in the coalition,
:44:04. > :44:08.is sorting out the banking system which she left in a mess. Sorting
:44:08. > :44:13.out the public finances which she left in a mess. Sorting out the
:44:13. > :44:17.economy which she left in a mess. Stop the a cart -- arbitrary
:44:18. > :44:24.privatisation of the NHS which she left in a mess. In government, the
:44:24. > :44:31.Labour Party ran out of ideas. In opposition, they neither have money
:44:31. > :44:35.nor ideas. My Right Honourable Friend might be aware of figures
:44:35. > :44:45.released this year -- this week, showing there has been some
:44:45. > :44:52.progress towards the target of 15 % of women on boards by 2015. What
:44:52. > :44:56.can our coalition government to to ensure that we meet this target and
:44:56. > :45:06.in which our boards with the diversity of talents that we as a
:45:06. > :45:09.I think there has been excellent progress to get women on to what
:45:09. > :45:17.boards. Everybody now agrees there has been real consensus that having
:45:17. > :45:21.more women it is good for all the companies involved. I very much
:45:21. > :45:29.hope we will continue to apply the right kind of voluntary pressure to
:45:29. > :45:33.see that increase further in the future. I sincerely hope the Deputy
:45:33. > :45:37.Prime Minister enjoyed our famous nor the stores fatality and the
:45:37. > :45:43.support of Northumbria Police at his spring conference in Gateshead.
:45:43. > :45:50.Could he now tell the House when that the 3,000 extra police he
:45:50. > :45:55.promised at the general election will be imposed? Mr Speaker, as her
:45:55. > :46:04.own party acknowledges, the police need to make savings. I think the
:46:04. > :46:11.key thing is not exactly what the total number is, but where are...
:46:11. > :46:17.Order! I don't know what members are having for breakfast but the
:46:17. > :46:22.deputy's answers must be heard. Where police officers are deployed.
:46:22. > :46:32.Over the past few years, far too many were filling up paperwork
:46:32. > :46:33.
:46:33. > :46:36.rather than out on the streets where they belong. Does my right
:46:36. > :46:40.honourable friend share my concerns that this Parliament should focus
:46:40. > :46:50.on cutting the deficit, promoting growth and getting people off
:46:50. > :46:53.
:46:53. > :46:57.welfare into work? How shall I explain our priorities discussing
:46:57. > :47:01.the House of Lords to them? suspect in the same way that he
:47:01. > :47:04.will no doubt explain to his constituents that there are other
:47:04. > :47:08.priorities like changing the boundaries, changing the boundaries
:47:08. > :47:12.of constituents, which I know is close to his heart and that of his
:47:12. > :47:17.party. I think governments and Parliaments can do more than one
:47:17. > :47:21.thing at once. I also believe it is a simple democratic principle that
:47:21. > :47:31.people who make the laws of the land should be elected by people
:47:31. > :47:35.
:47:35. > :47:42.who have to obey the laws of the land. Mr Deputy Speaker, I mean, Mr
:47:42. > :47:51.Speaker. My apologies. Studies show that it is crucial the NHS works
:47:51. > :47:54.closely with social care with regard to elderly people. Can I ask
:47:54. > :47:59.the deputy Prime Minister while -- why he is still cheerleading for a
:47:59. > :48:07.bill that scraps trust and that co- operation and puts the future
:48:07. > :48:11.health of all people, including my constituents, at risk? Mr Speaker,
:48:11. > :48:16.I am backing a bill which for the first time includes new statutory
:48:16. > :48:22.obligations to integrate social and healthcare. He is quite right, it
:48:22. > :48:26.is one of the abiding failings in our health service, these two
:48:26. > :48:30.services not being properly integrated. They have not been much
:48:30. > :48:34.integrated over the past 10 years, that is what we're trying to do now.
:48:34. > :48:43.Sadly, we are creating health boards which will bring their
:48:43. > :48:48.concerns together. -- secondly. Speaker, I congratulate the
:48:48. > :48:52.Government's on its efforts of addressing the in appropriate
:48:52. > :48:58.prices of Algol in supermarkets. But does the Deputy Prime Minister
:48:58. > :49:07.agree with me the safest place to drink is in the community pub - the
:49:07. > :49:16.beer is a lowest-ranked drink. Will he take his colleagues are for IBM
:49:16. > :49:20.tell them not to put up the duty on the great British point? Mr Speaker,
:49:20. > :49:24.all those questions are up to be answered at the time of the Budget
:49:24. > :49:34.but I'm sure many members agreed with the sentiment that we should
:49:34. > :49:43.
:49:43. > :49:50.support community pubs. Is the Deputy Prime Minister aware that
:49:50. > :49:55.now that the gang are old Tories are gallivanting around America he
:49:55. > :50:03.has a chance to shine? Now, what does he really, really think about
:50:03. > :50:08.this Murdoch sleaze and the latest developments, the Prime Minister of
:50:08. > :50:14.the riding borrowed police horses and employing Andy Coulson in the
:50:14. > :50:19.heart of government? Man to man, what does he really think? Give
:50:19. > :50:29.them a chance to separate him from the ranks of Tories behind him.
:50:29. > :50:35.
:50:35. > :50:41.Come on, be a man! Mr Speaker... Order! Order! Let us hear the
:50:41. > :50:46.answer! Mr Speaker, we had to wait a while for him to get going, but
:50:46. > :50:50.it was great once he did. I think we are soon going to celebrate, it
:50:50. > :50:54.that is the right Burke, 42 years of the honourable member's presence
:50:54. > :51:04.in this house, and I am delighted to see that in all that time, he
:51:04. > :51:08.has not mellowed one bit. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me and
:51:08. > :51:16.my rightful friend the Member for charms that in congratulating the
:51:16. > :51:20.citizens of Chelmsford on their newly acquired status following Her
:51:20. > :51:25.Majesty's announcement that it is to be a city? Does he agree that
:51:25. > :51:30.this is entirely -- entirely appropriate in an Olympic year,
:51:30. > :51:35.when Essex is also looking forward to hosting the mountain biking
:51:35. > :51:41.competition during the Olympics? am not sure if my honourable friend
:51:41. > :51:48.the Colchester would entirely share that sentiment. We are all aware of
:51:48. > :51:58.the rivalry. But I can announce the results of the Civic competition in
:51:58. > :51:58.
:51:58. > :52:07.honour of Her Majesty's Jubilee. St Asaph has also been given the right
:52:07. > :52:17.to call itself a city. I know a -- I know there will be disappointment
:52:17. > :52:19.
:52:19. > :52:25.in other cities and towns. Before the general election, the Deputy
:52:25. > :52:31.Prime Minister said he was profoundly hostile to the closure
:52:31. > :52:37.of factories. Now, 1,700 disabled people are losing their jobs
:52:37. > :52:41.because of the closure of a 36. What difference has he made?
:52:41. > :52:47.Speaker, as the honourable lady will know, this is a consequence of
:52:47. > :52:52.a review conducted by the head of the UK Disability Forum. Her
:52:52. > :52:57.conclusions are supported by organisations like mental charities.
:52:57. > :53:01.I do not want to disagree with them. This is their conclusion. This is
:53:01. > :53:04.what they think we should be doing. They believe that segregated
:53:04. > :53:09.employment, which was started in the aftermath of the Second World
:53:09. > :53:16.War, is not the best way to promote the issues and the interest of
:53:16. > :53:21.disabled people in this country. Last weekend, the Deputy Prime
:53:22. > :53:26.Minister spoke about the need for a tycoon it tax. Does he intend that
:53:26. > :53:32.to include individuals who claim that they want tax raised on the
:53:32. > :53:38.rich yet set up companies so they only pay 20% on their income, such
:53:38. > :53:42.as Ken Livingstone? It is worth dwelling on the explanation
:53:42. > :53:48.provided by Ken Livingstone for his exotic tax arrangements. I quote
:53:48. > :53:52.from an interview he made just this weekend: "I get loads of money, all
:53:52. > :54:02.from different sources, and I give it to an accountant and they manage
:54:02. > :54:05.
:54:06. > :54:12.it. That is modern socialism." in September 2010, I raised with the
:54:12. > :54:15.Prime Minister be case of a college in my constituency that lost �4
:54:15. > :54:21.million following the closure of the Regional Development Agency.
:54:21. > :54:26.asked the Prime Minister for a hand up, not a handout. Last week, that
:54:26. > :54:29.college was officially opened, yet 18 months on there is no sign of
:54:29. > :54:33.progress in addressing the shortfall. As the Deputy Prime
:54:33. > :54:37.Minister has said, there should be no barriers to people's talent and
:54:38. > :54:43.aspiration, so will he help give the young people of Lancashire and
:54:43. > :54:49.hand up? Of course ministers will be more than willing to look into
:54:49. > :54:52.the case of a college. Colleges are unbelievably important in providing
:54:52. > :54:56.skills and support to young people seeking to get the right
:54:56. > :55:01.qualifications to get into work. Working successfully with the
:55:02. > :55:05.government not least to provide a hugely successful apprenticeship
:55:05. > :55:11.programme, the largest expansion ever in a country, I am more than
:55:11. > :55:20.happy to make sure the ministers look at the case she mentions.
:55:20. > :55:29.After bid 2004 -- whilst the GLA has protected vulnerable workers,
:55:29. > :55:36.it has also contributed to the burdens of business. Can I be
:55:36. > :55:41.assured that any cuts in red tape will not leave workers unprotected?
:55:41. > :55:48.Mr Speaker, I hear what he says. It is an important issue and
:55:48. > :55:58.importance to get the issue -- the balance right. The gang masters
:55:58. > :56:00.
:56:00. > :56:09.authority must address issues in business for any manners. --
:56:09. > :56:17.business friendly manners. I would like to congratulate the city of
:56:17. > :56:21.Perth for its city status. My honourable friend will know of the
:56:21. > :56:27.cross party support that has led to this. Can I thank the palace and
:56:27. > :56:34.him for organising this tremendous award? Those other kind of
:56:34. > :56:38.questions I like! I think it is a good thing. -- those are the kind
:56:38. > :56:41.of questions. I would like to extend congratulations to all the
:56:41. > :56:51.people of Perth who worked on a cross-party basis to get this award
:56:51. > :56:54.
:56:54. > :57:00.today. One part of Cheltenham is getting a lot of attention
:57:00. > :57:03.regarding green spaces this week. But others will be at risk unless
:57:03. > :57:06.we combine economic success with tough controls to protect the
:57:06. > :57:13.countryside. Can my right honourable friend reassure us that
:57:13. > :57:18.a truly green at planning framework is still a safe bet? The government
:57:18. > :57:22.will be polishing -- publishing its national framework shortly. I think
:57:22. > :57:26.it is important we do everything to promote growth, because we need
:57:26. > :57:33.growth and jobs and new homes, particularly for like -- for young
:57:33. > :57:36.families. But of course that should be tempered by social and
:57:36. > :57:44.environmental considerations, and that balance will be properly
:57:44. > :57:46.reflected in the planning framework when it is published. On Monday,
:57:46. > :57:51.the Housing Minister told me and the House that the government had
:57:51. > :57:55.no plans to introduce rent controls in the private sector. Is the
:57:55. > :57:59.deputy Prime Minister where that the rising private sector rents in
:57:59. > :58:03.central London, the capping of housing benefits, means in effect
:58:03. > :58:10.that many families on benefit are being forced out? It is a process
:58:11. > :58:18.of social cleansing. Will he commit to an examination of the case of
:58:18. > :58:22.Private rent controls? As he knows, at the same time as announcing the
:58:22. > :58:25.restraint on housing benefit budget, which was a commitment in his own
:58:25. > :58:29.party's manifesto, to bring that part of the benefits system under
:58:29. > :58:34.control, we have a company that with a major fund to deal with hard
:58:35. > :58:38.cases. We have also unveiled a number of measures which should
:58:38. > :58:43.lead to a significant increase in affordable homes. It is a lack of
:58:43. > :58:50.supply of affordable homes which is the underlying problem in London
:58:50. > :59:00.and elsewhere. Changes to child benefit will mean a single income
:59:00. > :59:05.family earning �43,000 a year when one parent is working well
:59:05. > :59:11.subsidise a couple earning �80,000 a year. Is this fair? I been it is
:59:11. > :59:14.fair that someone earning far beyond the average should not be
:59:14. > :59:21.subsidised been receiving child benefit from people on much lower
:59:21. > :59:31.incomes. He does raise a perfectly valid point, which is the cut-off
:59:31. > :59:34.
:59:34. > :59:39.point can create these anomalies. We have all said we will look for a
:59:39. > :59:44.pragmatic way of implementing this in a sensitive matter. The Deputy
:59:44. > :59:47.Prime Minister will be aware of the serious incidents in my
:59:47. > :59:51.constituency regarding three explosive devices planted since
:59:51. > :59:55.Friday, the most recent adjacent to local schools. Will he join me in
:59:55. > :59:59.condemning these attacks which bring misery to the community? Can
:59:59. > :00:02.he assure the sows that in the absence of the international
:00:02. > :00:12.monitoring commission, the UK government will continue to monitor
:00:12. > :00:19.closely any linkages between such Of course, I am sure I speak on
:00:19. > :00:25.behalf of the entire House. The attacks endangered the lives of
:00:25. > :00:29.everyone in the surrounding areas, including young children. Totally
:00:29. > :00:38.reprehensible. All of these attacks are now being investigated. There
:00:38. > :00:44.is no indication at present that these are terrorist attacks.
:00:44. > :00:51.Thank you, Mr Speaker. The European Union is presently consulting on
:00:51. > :00:55.changes to the rules governing state aid in assisted areas. The
:00:55. > :01:04.Government has shown commitment by establishing an enterprise zone in
:01:04. > :01:06.order to attract large businesses. But changes will restrict matters.
:01:06. > :01:13.And the Deputy Prime Minister assure me that the Government will
:01:13. > :01:19.fight the proposals? I'm delighted the Enterprise Zone is now taking
:01:19. > :01:24.shape. It will be a huge boost, not least through investment from major
:01:24. > :01:28.investors in the renewable energy sector in that part of the world,
:01:28. > :01:34.but I he understand what he says about the reviewing of those rules.
:01:34. > :01:39.I think it is from 2014 onwards. We are extremely mindful that we do
:01:39. > :01:42.not undermine excellent work taken place in North Lincolnshire. Best
:01:42. > :01:50.taking place. The Ministry of Justice announced today it had
:01:50. > :01:55.given to new contracts worth... This company has been under
:01:55. > :02:00.investigation by the police and the Department of Work and Pensions.
:02:00. > :02:04.Since I have been raising concerns about it, I have received e-mails
:02:04. > :02:08.from members of the public alleging fraud and bad practice. Is the
:02:08. > :02:13.Government going to continue handing out public money to them?
:02:13. > :02:21.She raises a very serious issue. The police investigation into the
:02:21. > :02:26.allegations of fraud... These contracts were entered into by the
:02:26. > :02:32.previous governor. We have launched our own audit of the existing
:02:32. > :02:40.contracts. If there is any evidence of systematic abuse, then of course,
:02:40. > :02:45.we would end all contracts. The six British servicemen killed in
:02:45. > :02:53.Afghanistan last week will be repatriated next Tuesday. They
:02:53. > :02:57.would include three of my constituents. At this difficult
:02:57. > :02:59.time for the families, will be Deputy Prime Minister assure me and
:02:59. > :03:04.my current -- constituents that everything is being done by the
:03:05. > :03:11.Government to support the families? I know how strongly he must feel
:03:11. > :03:17.about this terrible accident. Three constituents of his have sadly lost
:03:17. > :03:21.their lives. Everything is being done in quite difficult
:03:21. > :03:27.circumstances to make sure that the bodies are returned to the families
:03:27. > :03:31.as well as possible. Has the Deputy Prime Minister considered the
:03:31. > :03:38.implications of the Treasury's plant changes in the controlled
:03:38. > :03:48.foreign companies rules which will in centre vies multinationals
:03:48. > :04:05.
:04:05. > :04:11.having recourse to tax havens? Will this perverse and... Change
:04:11. > :04:14.been dealt with? It is incredibly complicated once you get into the
:04:14. > :04:21.detail but it is something that which of course was not dealt
:04:21. > :04:24.within the last 13 years and we are now preparing to look into it.
:04:24. > :04:28.my right honourable friend join with me in welcoming the launch
:04:28. > :04:31.today of the action plan setting out how we can achieve more
:04:31. > :04:34.adoptions more quickly? Does he agree that making adoption work
:04:34. > :04:39.well everyone should be the priority of all of us who have the
:04:39. > :04:44.interests of vulnerable people at heart?
:04:44. > :04:48.It is so frustrating for couples and parents who want to adopt
:04:48. > :04:57.children and also not good for the children concerned when they are
:04:57. > :05:01.inordinately delayed -- delays. That is why it is a very good thing.
:05:01. > :05:11.Denouncement made on it so late in the adoption process will now
:05:11. > :05:32.
:05:32. > :05:37.indeed happen -- the announcement. Clearly, that letter has been
:05:37. > :05:45.issued under the current system. But he does touch on a very serious
:05:45. > :05:50.issue. It is one that every single developed society around faces. We
:05:50. > :05:58.have healthcare systems that were not designed for a mass of the
:05:58. > :06:02.ageing population. -- massively. That is why we need to make sure
:06:02. > :06:11.that they are kept well and strong in as much as possible in their
:06:11. > :06:14.homes and in their communities. That is what this NHS bill is about.
:06:14. > :06:17.Students at Comprehensive School are just as likely to study A-level
:06:17. > :06:22.history as their private school punk -- counterparts. But they are
:06:22. > :06:27.only half as likely to study maths or physics. What is the Government
:06:27. > :06:31.going to do about the social mobility issue that we have in the
:06:31. > :06:36.sciences and does he support the proposed Sir Isaac Newton Mathew
:06:37. > :06:39.school in Norfolk to help address this issue? She highlights an
:06:39. > :06:44.incredibly important point. But as one of the reasons why the new
:06:44. > :06:47.English Baccalaureate does place a great deal of emphasis on those
:06:48. > :06:53.scientific disciplines. It is why we protected the size budget, in
:06:53. > :06:57.order to send a clear signal that we find it -- value sciences. We
:06:57. > :07:05.need more youngsters, particularly from disadvantaged backgrounds,
:07:05. > :07:10.taking a maths and science courses. He says the Health Bill would be
:07:10. > :07:13.going through unamended without the Liberal Democrats but will he
:07:13. > :07:18.listen to people up and down the country who know the real truth
:07:18. > :07:23.that the Tories would not be getting their shambolic pill at all
:07:23. > :07:30.without him and his MPs propping them up? -- Bill. I would have
:07:30. > :07:36.thought he would have welcomed legislation which outlaws the
:07:36. > :07:40.practice indulged in in industrial scale by his party of giving
:07:40. > :07:45.sweetheart deals to the private sector.
:07:45. > :07:50.Seven minutes of injury time from the Speaker and that brings an end
:07:50. > :08:00.to Nick Clegg's 37 minutes in the spotlight. Uninteresting couple of
:08:00. > :08:01.
:08:01. > :08:06.questions from the Conservatives. Thank you, David. No one can say he
:08:06. > :08:11.did not have a fair crack of the whip. He had plenty of time.
:08:12. > :08:15.An assessment of who came off best? I think he looked very comfortable
:08:15. > :08:20.standing in for David Cameron. He equipped himself quite well. He was
:08:20. > :08:30.answering without referring to any briefs. He was taking it off the
:08:30. > :08:30.
:08:30. > :08:40.cuff. On that basis, he did well. In the -- will people be persuaded
:08:40. > :08:41.
:08:42. > :08:46.about his arguments on the NHS reform in England?
:08:46. > :08:49.Suzy Davis, the Liberal Democrats in their conference last week gave
:08:49. > :08:53.the Government and declared a bit of a kick up the backside over the
:08:53. > :08:59.NHS bill. -- Nick Clegg. But he stood up and defended it. Were you
:08:59. > :09:04.please do see that? I would not have expected him to do anything
:09:04. > :09:07.else. He has made his position clear. Obviously, he had a bit of a
:09:07. > :09:16.tough time in his own conference but in the House of Commons today,
:09:16. > :09:20.he stuck to his guns are and he absolutely needed to us well. -- as
:09:20. > :09:24.well. There was also a question which may
:09:24. > :09:32.have to the casual observer looked and friendly. Dennis Skinner asking
:09:32. > :09:35.him to make his position clear on News International? You have been
:09:35. > :09:42.in the House of Commons, tell us what is it like to be on the end of
:09:42. > :09:45.a Dennis Skinner tongue-lashing. That is the sort of thing that can
:09:45. > :09:55.happen in Parliament. We do not really do it in the Assembly. He
:09:55. > :09:58.
:09:58. > :10:03.was very challenging, even, to Nick Clegg. He did not address the issue.
:10:03. > :10:07.But there are links there, there is no doubt. There is an issue about
:10:08. > :10:17.senior politicians's links to senior journalists. And the tickly
:10:18. > :10:18.
:10:18. > :10:25.one News company. Over-rate period of time, Hutt -- over a period of
:10:25. > :10:29.time, that will be addressed. Investigations are going ahead. I
:10:29. > :10:34.noticed that it is still dominating the news agenda. Is it a question
:10:34. > :10:39.of broadcasting speaking to itself? There are other things going on.
:10:39. > :10:44.can confirm that Plaid Cymru has never had a pyjama party.
:10:44. > :10:49.What about a police horse? Certainly not.
:10:49. > :10:52.Coming up, we worship the Business Minister, Edwina Hart, on the
:10:53. > :10:59.latest European GDP statistics on economic prosperity in West Wales
:10:59. > :11:09.and the valleys. Battles in of fall. Time to go back
:11:09. > :11:15.
:11:15. > :11:19.Worrying news for disabled people working for Remploy.
:11:19. > :11:24.Many of those employees have been at the Senedd today. What was that
:11:25. > :11:29.about? It was not pushing for public support, procurement and so
:11:29. > :11:33.on. Since then, the Department of Work and Pensions as basically
:11:33. > :11:38.tried to sabotage the event by not allowing time off for workers to
:11:38. > :11:42.come in. Everyone has come in and do their own steam. They have taken
:11:42. > :11:48.days off to come here and promote in their own time the work that
:11:48. > :11:53.they do want to gain support for Remploy. What is the latest? What
:11:53. > :11:56.is the latest on the discussions between the Welsh Government and
:11:56. > :12:00.the UK demand on supporting those people moving forward? Leighton
:12:01. > :12:05.Andrews met with Maria Miller yesterday and asked for Remploy to
:12:05. > :12:08.basically be devolved to Wales. And then we could actually look at our
:12:08. > :12:13.own solutions to try and save the jobs. As I understand it, that has
:12:13. > :12:17.been refused. Part of the pressure and the campaign now is to start to
:12:17. > :12:21.say, if you do not want Remploy, if you do not think it can succeed,
:12:21. > :12:27.give it over to us and we will put all our resources and support into
:12:27. > :12:31.saving the work of the workers. Is there an argument that the very
:12:31. > :12:35.understandably emotive elements of this, people possibly losing their
:12:35. > :12:38.jobs and people with difficulties to deal within the first place,
:12:38. > :12:42.blind us to the bigger picture? The Government would say these
:12:42. > :12:46.factories are losing a lot of money. The accountants have said that in
:12:46. > :12:50.the next financial year, the ones in Wales could lose �6 million. The
:12:50. > :12:57.Government is also ring-fencing the budget for disabled people. Might
:12:57. > :13:02.that be better used helping individuals?
:13:02. > :13:07.Off A 300 or so Remploy workers in Wales, if they lose their jobs, the
:13:07. > :13:11.vast majority will never work again. How do we know? Those jobs are not
:13:12. > :13:17.exist out there. When the last batch of Lent -- Remploy closures
:13:17. > :13:20.took place, all of the cities six have shown that the majority of
:13:20. > :13:24.those workers have never been able to find jobs and settle down into
:13:24. > :13:30.jobs. The other point which is a very important one is the losses of
:13:30. > :13:33.Remploy. It is perfectly true that the model of Remploy, the way it is
:13:33. > :13:38.one, the lack of a proper business plan, the lack of any real
:13:38. > :13:43.functionality between various unions, marketing, it is in March -
:13:43. > :13:47.- major contributor to that. What we should be doing for Wales is we
:13:47. > :13:55.can produce a commercially acceptable and viable business
:13:55. > :13:59.model without some of the overheads and creating jobs and turning over
:13:59. > :14:03.basically the costs of the business. Give it to us, let us have a go at
:14:03. > :14:05.it. I am sure there is a model where. I have already been in
:14:05. > :14:10.discussions with various organisations, companies, co-
:14:10. > :14:14.operative centres, various bodies, all the evidence we have got about
:14:14. > :14:19.how Remploy works at the moment is that the business is good, the
:14:19. > :14:22.model is wrong. Let us in Wales change the model and develop the
:14:22. > :14:31.business with a new model, give its support from Moscow mud and through
:14:31. > :14:41.procurement and I think we can save the jobs and create a commercially
:14:41. > :14:46.
:14:46. > :14:56.viable out that for the future -- from the Welsh Government. The do
:14:56. > :15:00.
:15:00. > :15:04.you feel there is more mileage in We have to press the argument.
:15:04. > :15:08.Without the funding, we haven't got a chance and we can't even stop the
:15:08. > :15:12.ball rolling. So really the starting point has to be pressure
:15:12. > :15:21.on the UK government to let us have a go, let us see what we can do to
:15:21. > :15:26.save these jobs. Thank you for joining us. Tomorrow, Plaid Cymru
:15:26. > :15:30.will have a new leader. We don't know who it will be yet. Elin Jones,
:15:30. > :15:34.Leanne Wood and Dafydd Elis-Thomas are all hoping to replace Ieuan Wyn
:15:34. > :15:42.Jones. Yesterday was his final First Minister's Question Time as
:15:42. > :15:49.leader of Plaid Cymru. You have already acknowledged and accepted
:15:49. > :15:54.that this is the very last question, question number 639. As you
:15:54. > :15:59.suggested, some of the answers have been comprehensive and I am sure
:15:59. > :16:04.you will agree some of the questions have also been
:16:04. > :16:09.comprehensive and Wise. May I take this opportunity to thank everyone
:16:09. > :16:14.for their courtesy? It has been a huge privilege for me to take such
:16:14. > :16:18.a key role in Welsh politics and to play a part in the development of
:16:18. > :16:28.the first Parliament that Wales has had the six centuries. Nobody could
:16:28. > :16:29.
:16:30. > :16:35.ask for more than that. Well, I don't believe that I can endorse
:16:35. > :16:45.everything he has said, but may I it once again say that I wish him
:16:45. > :16:46.
:16:46. > :16:51.well for that future years. If I made to pay tribute to the leader
:16:51. > :17:01.for the service he has given to the country and to this institution,
:17:01. > :17:07.which he is right to say has matured since 1999. The people of
:17:07. > :17:11.Anglesey a great for you that serve them with such deliverance -- such
:17:11. > :17:16.diligence as well. I was grateful to receive such kind words when I
:17:16. > :17:20.was elected here in the Assembly and a very much look forward to
:17:20. > :17:26.continue working with you in this institution for the betterment of
:17:26. > :17:35.Wales. I would also like to wish you well for your remaining years
:17:35. > :17:37.on the backbenches. I suspect and hope that you will be just as
:17:37. > :17:47.troublesome as previous leaders who have moved to the backbenchers have
:17:47. > :17:53.been to the people that follow them. Oh, yes! Can I just add my personal
:17:53. > :17:57.thanks? I think he had leads -- he has led his party with charm and
:17:57. > :18:04.wit. I look forward to you being on the back bench and setting a good
:18:04. > :18:09.example to the others. That is the presiding Officer Rosemary Butler
:18:09. > :18:15.leading tributes. But he is still here, I think he is with Mark
:18:15. > :18:23.Wright now. Yes, welcome to the programme. Quite a bittersweet
:18:23. > :18:27.moment for you, is it? No, we have had a long time to prepare for it
:18:27. > :18:32.and obviously we made the right decision in my view, by not rushing
:18:32. > :18:37.to a decision immediately after the decision. We waited for the dust to
:18:37. > :18:43.settle, as it were. The party then had a thorough review of its
:18:43. > :18:52.strategy and machinery and now it has an opportunity to an elected --
:18:52. > :18:57.to elect a new leader. You were leader for nearly 12 years. The
:18:57. > :19:01.party has changed remarkably in that time, what you see as York
:19:01. > :19:05.foremost achievement as leader? Well, it is difficult to be precise
:19:05. > :19:10.about a single thing because so much has changed in Wales since I
:19:10. > :19:19.became leader. If you remember, in 2000, this was still a very shaky
:19:19. > :19:25.institution. We had a vote of no conference -- confidence, we were
:19:25. > :19:32.still getting used to the new arrangements here. We had to manage
:19:32. > :19:36.expectations, adapts to post devolution politics. But I think
:19:36. > :19:40.the growth immaturity and strength and the ability of the institution
:19:40. > :19:46.to represent the people of Wales has been remarkable and I hope
:19:46. > :19:52.people think that I had a small part to play in that. It is true to
:19:52. > :19:57.say nobody else has managed to get Plaid Cymru into government. We are
:19:57. > :20:00.used to that now, but at the time it was quite a crucial moment.
:20:01. > :20:09.People thought that it just couldn't be countenanced.
:20:09. > :20:12.Absolutely. We have always considered that a coalition
:20:12. > :20:17.government might happen at some time because nobody has ever had a
:20:17. > :20:21.clear majority in this place. So coalition politics was something we
:20:21. > :20:26.have thought about, obviously. When we came here in 1999 we hadn't
:20:26. > :20:29.prepared ourselves for that so it couldn't happen immediately, but by
:20:29. > :20:33.2007, I in the party had recognised that to become a party of
:20:33. > :20:38.government it probably needed to share power with other parties. I
:20:38. > :20:41.think going through that experience has been immensely helpful. Now,
:20:41. > :20:46.the next leader won't have the difficulty of trying to persuade
:20:46. > :20:51.the party that there should be done. Do you feel that the new leader
:20:51. > :20:55.needs to have an eye on a pragmatic approach to getting into power
:20:55. > :20:58.whenever possible? Well, I think any leader would like to be the
:20:58. > :21:03.largest party entering into a coalition and that should be the
:21:03. > :21:06.aspiration of the next leader. But it is also important to recognise
:21:06. > :21:12.that if you have a set of policies, there is no point in having them
:21:12. > :21:16.unless you can put them into practice. It was a good test for us
:21:16. > :21:21.to understand all policies we had prepared for all his eight years
:21:21. > :21:26.and opposition. We put them into practice and some of them worked
:21:26. > :21:29.extremely well. So it is good experience for the party. We you
:21:29. > :21:33.personally disappointed that, having reached that promised land
:21:33. > :21:38.of government, you then did not get the electoral benefit after that?
:21:38. > :21:45.You lost seats. Yes, we did, but I think we learned from those lessons
:21:45. > :21:50.so we won't repeat what happened in 2011. Remember, towards the end of
:21:50. > :21:52.that period, we had the referendum which turned this into a law-making
:21:52. > :22:02.Assembly with full powers. That is a great achievement because it
:22:02. > :22:07.would not have happened. Briefly, what would be your word of advice
:22:07. > :22:11.to your successor? And what are your own plans for the future?
:22:11. > :22:17.only advice I can properly give is the new leader should be themselves.
:22:17. > :22:20.Don't try to be something you're not. People try to pursue in a
:22:20. > :22:24.particular direction. It is impossible for you to be something
:22:24. > :22:29.you are not. Be yourself and follow your own instincts are often
:22:29. > :22:32.because often they will be proved to be right. As for me, I have
:22:32. > :22:37.things planned but I'm not sure I'm in a position to talk about them
:22:37. > :22:44.just yet. Very intriguing! For now, thank you very much and all the
:22:44. > :22:49.best. We will have him back on the programme to tell us what his plans
:22:49. > :22:52.are when you can talk about it. Now, the Welsh government has dismissed
:22:53. > :22:56.official European GDP statistics on economic prosperity in West Wales
:22:56. > :22:59.and the valleys as particularly misleading. The enterprise minister
:22:59. > :23:03.Edwina Hart was in front of the enterprise and business committee
:23:03. > :23:07.this morning. It was a general ministerial scrutiny session with
:23:07. > :23:13.questions across her prop for earlier but the issue of the GDP
:23:13. > :23:17.statistics was inevitably raised. just wondered whether the minister
:23:17. > :23:22.would like to make a comment regarding those GDP figures and
:23:22. > :23:26.your understanding of them? Yes, obviously we looked with interest
:23:26. > :23:32.at those figures and the labour market statistics which also came
:23:32. > :23:35.up this morning. I am more than happy to cover both of them in
:23:35. > :23:39.terms of the committee. I think we have to be frank, we are very
:23:39. > :23:44.disappointed with the GDP figures, there is no messing about on that
:23:44. > :23:49.issue. But we do have to put it in context, I think. There is a
:23:49. > :23:53.relative decline in performance in West Wales and the Ballets which is
:23:53. > :23:59.largely accounted for by the relative decline accorded to the UK
:23:59. > :24:04.as a whole in statistical terms. Since the start of the programme in
:24:04. > :24:12.2001, GDP per head in Wales and the Ballets has kept pace with the UK
:24:12. > :24:17.as a whole and I think it would be wrong to completely attribute the
:24:17. > :24:21.decline to Welsh policy failure. And in terms of GDP it can be quite
:24:21. > :24:30.misleading - I was discussing with my senior officials earlier in
:24:30. > :24:34.terms of the area, because of the flow of commuters. I am happy to
:24:34. > :24:43.cover some of that ground now. The committee will be well aware of
:24:43. > :24:46.some of these issues. GDP figures there you get for small areas in
:24:46. > :24:49.particular may not be the best indicator of performance. That does
:24:50. > :24:57.not take anything away from what the minister said - clearly we
:24:57. > :25:00.would want to see those figures going up. But employment rates and
:25:00. > :25:05.disposable household incomes and other measures tend to be a fairer
:25:05. > :25:09.representation of the income of small areas. Certainly,
:25:09. > :25:16.historically, whelks -- West Wales and the valleys have performed much
:25:16. > :25:20.better on those measures. If I can quickly go to the labour market
:25:20. > :25:25.statistics - for the third month in a row, employment has continued to
:25:25. > :25:30.rise in Wales. This is against the falling UK market as a whole last
:25:30. > :25:35.year. I think we need to look at the volatility of the figures. It
:25:35. > :25:40.is encouraged but I don't think it indicate a master it changed.
:25:40. > :25:46.Economic inactivity has also improved by 1.2% over the last year,
:25:46. > :25:52.compared with a fall of 0.1% over the past year for the UK. So that
:25:52. > :25:55.is encouraging. I do think our policies in terms of existing
:25:56. > :26:00.companies are making a difference within those figures, but I am
:26:00. > :26:04.happy to take any questions. If the committee wants more details we
:26:04. > :26:08.will also be happy to provide that when I have had the opportunity to
:26:08. > :26:15.discuss with officials in more detail what has emerged. That was
:26:15. > :26:18.the been his -- the Business Minister. We did invite Edwina Hart
:26:18. > :26:22.onto the programme to speak to us about the latest figures but she
:26:22. > :26:26.declined. Let us see what our guests think about that. That is
:26:26. > :26:31.the first we have heard from a government representative in person
:26:31. > :26:36.on these figures. What do you make of what she said? I think it is a
:26:36. > :26:43.bit complacent, actually. The whole point of the programme is to
:26:43. > :26:46.improve our GDP, that is what they were designed to do. Claims that we
:26:46. > :26:51.are somehow keeping abreast of UK white figures are neither here nor
:26:51. > :26:54.there because the whole point of these programmes are to identify a
:26:54. > :27:02.merrier for action because we know it is particularly deprived and it
:27:02. > :27:06.needs to be lifted. I think we all have to accept that the first
:27:06. > :27:10.objective was not particularly well managed. We were hoping a
:27:10. > :27:13.convergence would be a much better programme, and it may be a bit
:27:13. > :27:17.early to be sure about the effect of convergence, and it was a time
:27:17. > :27:22.of recession, but nevertheless the government has been much more
:27:22. > :27:25.proactive about being more creative to improve the economy of Wales.
:27:25. > :27:30.is no surprise that the government does not really want to talk about
:27:30. > :27:34.this much. But Edwina Hart did speak about it, recognising that
:27:34. > :27:38.they weren't great figures. But what does it say about the first 10
:27:38. > :27:44.years of the Assembly? How well people look back on the funding and
:27:44. > :27:51.convergence? Well, the minister did not say an awful lot. I think she
:27:51. > :27:58.was put on the spot and forced to say something. This money has come
:27:58. > :28:02.to Wales for a specific reason. Sustainability was important and we
:28:02. > :28:06.have just seen 10 years of the same old stuff, which is the government
:28:06. > :28:10.in Wales saying, you need to do this, you need to go through all
:28:10. > :28:16.these different levels of provision, and what is completely missing is
:28:16. > :28:20.the support of the private sector with social enterprises and small
:28:20. > :28:24.enterprises. That is happening in equivalent places in Europe and
:28:24. > :28:34.does perhaps explain why our GDP is low at then part of Romania, for
:28:34. > :28:34.
:28:34. > :28:39.example. Now, the programme is coming to an end. Thank you for