:00:24. > :00:29.Good morning and welcome to the programme. Over the next 90 minutes,
:00:29. > :00:32.we will bring you up to date with the political news from here in
:00:32. > :00:37.Cardiff Bay and in Westminster. On the programme, new laws on school
:00:37. > :00:41.standards, organ donation and cycle routes but Carwyn Jones says he
:00:41. > :00:44.will not create legislation for the sake of it. We will be at Prime
:00:44. > :00:48.Minister's Questions in a week where Ed Miliband's leadership is
:00:48. > :00:51.being questioned. And I will be hearing from the Older People's
:00:51. > :01:01.Commissioner as she calls for tougher legislation on protection
:01:01. > :01:02.
:01:02. > :01:08.for the elderly. Joining me today are two new Assembly Members. Suzy
:01:08. > :01:12.Davies and William Powell. Welcome to you both. Yesterday, the First
:01:12. > :01:17.Minister outlined his legislative priorities for the next five-year
:01:17. > :01:20.Assembly term. Those priorities include proposals for new laws on
:01:20. > :01:25.school standards, the organ donation system and more cycling
:01:25. > :01:29.routes. They will be published next month. Yesterday's announcement
:01:29. > :01:35.came amid criticism that Labour has taken too long to reveal a
:01:35. > :01:38.programme of Government. The Government benches do not have
:01:38. > :01:42.the numbers to pass Government legislation without support of
:01:42. > :01:48.other parties and I hope there will be many occasions where we can find
:01:48. > :01:52.common ground to move forward together to pass legislation. It is
:01:52. > :01:56.of course inevitable that the opposition will seek to hold this
:01:56. > :02:02.Government to account but I welcome the positive comments from the
:02:02. > :02:06.opposition leaders when they said they would seek to work together
:02:06. > :02:09.and find consensus where possible. Members will have an opportunity to
:02:09. > :02:16.judge the strength of our legislative programme well I
:02:16. > :02:19.formally announce on 12th July. That was the First Minister
:02:19. > :02:25.announcing his priorities. Let's see what our guests think about
:02:25. > :02:30.that. It was not the actual programme for Government and there
:02:30. > :02:36.was disappointment about that. It was quite a disappointing start
:02:36. > :02:41.because in some ways, we have not hit the ground running and I don't
:02:41. > :02:47.think that what we herd yesterday from Carwyn Jones actually is cave
:02:47. > :02:57.much of an impetus about what we need to get on with. At there was a
:02:57. > :02:59.
:02:59. > :03:04.feeling in our office that the whole thing was a bit flat. As new
:03:04. > :03:09.members, we were expecting to have a detailed legislative programme to
:03:09. > :03:16.get our teeth into but I was a bit disappointed with what I heard. --
:03:17. > :03:24.disappointed. I came out of the Chamber thinking, what exactly are
:03:24. > :03:28.we legislating? Less look at the subject that were mentioned. There
:03:28. > :03:33.was something on cycle routes and social care and there will be
:03:33. > :03:39.legislation on higher education and comprehensive education. Is that a
:03:39. > :03:48.good thing? Those are important and I was pleased to hear that there
:03:48. > :03:51.will be legislation on children and care for older people. But we heard
:03:51. > :04:01.very little about the health service and we heard nothing about
:04:01. > :04:04.
:04:04. > :04:08.the position of the Welsh language. When those two are combined, there
:04:08. > :04:12.was just silence. Kirsty Williams suggested that the Government was
:04:12. > :04:22.being a bit coy and that they had more information than they were
:04:22. > :04:24.
:04:24. > :04:29.passing on. I thought that was very pertinent. Format years ago, --
:04:29. > :04:34.four years ago, it Rhodri Morgan put forward legislation put
:04:34. > :04:44.Government but we did not hear that yesterday. The Liberal Democrats
:04:44. > :04:46.
:04:46. > :04:55.have been pushing for the localism agenda and the economy. What you
:04:55. > :05:00.make of what was in their? -- what do you. It was very short on detail.
:05:01. > :05:05.It is great for example that we are going to have action on local
:05:05. > :05:10.growing and allotments and a lot of micro issues that I important to
:05:10. > :05:13.communities across Wales. But there was not enough on the big issues.
:05:13. > :05:23.Was there a suggestion that there are more important things than what
:05:23. > :05:23.
:05:24. > :05:28.was mentioned yesterday? The key has to be on job creation. That is
:05:28. > :05:32.something I brought up in my question to the First Minister. It
:05:32. > :05:40.is really important that we have greater development of the powers
:05:40. > :05:44.that we have got, particularly around getting greater borrowing
:05:44. > :05:52.powers so that we can do something about driving forward the economy
:05:52. > :06:00.and creating jobs. Let's find out what is happening in the Assembly.
:06:00. > :06:04.Mark Hannaby is there for us. afternoon, we start off with
:06:04. > :06:07.questions to ministers. Today it's the Education Minister Leighton
:06:07. > :06:14.Andrews and local Government Minister Carl Sargeant. Then there
:06:14. > :06:19.will be motions to elect a few committees. The petitions committee
:06:19. > :06:25.deals with the general public's concerns and the statutory
:06:25. > :06:28.instruments committee. Once that is done. -- ones that is done, they
:06:28. > :06:36.will be a discussion on the treatment of old people in
:06:36. > :06:42.hospitals. The Liberal Democrats wants to see more instruments used
:06:42. > :06:45.to help the economy, in particular enterprise zones. Those are going
:06:45. > :06:48.ahead in England and the Liberal Democrats wants to see them
:06:48. > :06:53.considered in Wales as well. Plaid Cymru are going to use their debate
:06:53. > :06:56.a call on the Government to set out a fully detailed five-year
:06:56. > :07:06.programme of law-making. That will be interesting because the
:07:06. > :07:11.
:07:11. > :07:16.Government has said it will not do that until July 12th. You can find
:07:16. > :07:25.out even more about what is happening on an hour website. Just
:07:25. > :07:31.go to bbc.co.uk/walespolitics. Let's find out what is happening in
:07:31. > :07:37.Westminster with David Cornock. We have heard in the news about
:07:37. > :07:42.strikes and there is a warning this morning that the PCAS union could
:07:42. > :07:51.be striking at the end of the month. We are expecting the result later
:07:51. > :08:01.today of a strike ballot called by the OPCS union. The employee around
:08:01. > :08:04.
:08:04. > :08:09.300,000 members across the UK. The major teaching unions announced
:08:09. > :08:16.yesterday they would be taking action over their pensions on June
:08:16. > :08:21.30th. The date of any action by the PCAS union is as yet to be decided.
:08:21. > :08:27.But it will be done to coincide with that teaching strike at the
:08:27. > :08:33.end of the month. The Government is facing quite a challenge from a
:08:33. > :08:37.public sector unions over changes to the conditions of their
:08:38. > :08:43.employees, particularly changes and pensions that are happening across
:08:43. > :08:51.the public cent -- sector. Ministers at the moment say they
:08:51. > :08:55.will resist any action and stick firm to their policies. They say
:08:55. > :09:01.things have changed because the current pensions system is an
:09:01. > :09:05.affordable. At we have talked about job cuts and the public sector and
:09:05. > :09:09.the unemployment figures out today. There has been a spite in the
:09:09. > :09:19.number of those claiming benefits across the UK but it is a mixed
:09:19. > :09:22.
:09:22. > :09:32.picture in Wales. A mixed picture everywhere. Across the UK generally,
:09:32. > :09:32.
:09:32. > :09:38.the numbers of people out of work has fallen to 2.4 3 million. But
:09:38. > :09:44.benefits have gone up because some have moved on to other benefits as
:09:44. > :09:49.part of Government policy. In Wales, there are 115,000 people out of
:09:49. > :09:55.work. The average rate is still higher than the rest of the UK. But
:09:55. > :10:01.there has been a fall and what ministers here are looking at is a
:10:01. > :10:10.fall of 10,000 people in terms of economic inactivity. Around 19,000
:10:10. > :10:18.more people are in work now. Ministers you will see that as a
:10:18. > :10:25.sign of economic recovery. That is what the Welsh Secretary Cheryl
:10:25. > :10:35.Gillan has been saying this morning. The Chancellor is backing proposals
:10:35. > :10:40.
:10:40. > :10:46.for banks to ring-fence retail from investment banking. The Liberal
:10:46. > :10:51.Democrats are claiming the credit for the Government U-turn. In terms
:10:51. > :10:57.of banks, the Chancellor is delivering his speech later tonight
:10:57. > :11:00.to the city and he is going to be talking about the recommendations
:11:00. > :11:06.of the Independent Banking Commission. That is to separate out
:11:06. > :11:13.the two forms of banking that are carried out by the big banks. This
:11:13. > :11:23.separate the retail bank from the other style of banking which is
:11:23. > :11:23.
:11:23. > :11:29.investment banking. The idea is that in future, if a riskier to see
:11:29. > :11:34.no element of banking, if that were to fail, it would be allowed to
:11:34. > :11:40.fail and it would not be bailed out because it would be legally
:11:40. > :11:44.separate from the retail banking that would actually be protected
:11:44. > :11:49.and the idea is that such failure in future would not cost the
:11:49. > :11:59.country and the taxpayers quite as much as it did when some of our
:11:59. > :12:03.
:12:03. > :12:10.leading banks went belly up a couple of years ago. Thank you for
:12:10. > :12:15.the time being. We will speak to you later. If you would like to
:12:15. > :12:25.send us your comments about any of the issues in the programme today,
:12:25. > :12:33.
:12:33. > :12:38.you can contact us at the address Wales needs to put aside the
:12:38. > :12:43.traditional view of its past and recognise that heritage can play a
:12:43. > :12:47.central role in regenerating modern day communities, according to the
:12:47. > :12:52.new Heritage Minister, Huw Lewis. He says heritage is a more living
:12:52. > :13:02.concept than what he calls the biscuit tin Bin -- a view that has
:13:02. > :13:03.
:13:03. > :13:13.prevailed for so long. This punk band have an iconic place
:13:13. > :13:14.
:13:14. > :13:19.in the culture of music but 20 years on, one member of the band is
:13:19. > :13:23.focusing on Wales' past. The main question is how it integrates would
:13:23. > :13:28.society and how people are involved and how people learn from it. It is
:13:28. > :13:32.not just about visiting sites it is about the understanding and the
:13:32. > :13:39.connection. In his first interview since being appointed Heritage
:13:39. > :13:44.Minister, Huw Lewis has seen a change in emphasis from castles.
:13:44. > :13:49.do have a hangover in our mind and a traditional view of Wales of what
:13:49. > :13:59.constitutes heritage. I would like to broaden up -- broaden that. A
:13:59. > :14:08.
:14:08. > :14:16.great deal has been done. Every community in Wales has a story to
:14:16. > :14:22.tell. Whether it is through medieval castles or industrial 19th
:14:22. > :14:29.century heritage. They are both equally valuable in my mind. Either
:14:29. > :14:33.town house here is an extension to a nearby hotel where people like
:14:33. > :14:37.Charles Dickens and Oliver Cromwell once stayed. The town house was
:14:37. > :14:44.built in the 16th century and owned by a local landowner. In recent
:14:44. > :14:49.times, the place had fallen into rack and ruin. This 16th century
:14:49. > :14:54.town house won an award in 2010. As well as improving the rather
:14:54. > :14:59.scruffy corner on the High Street, it also improved the setting for be
:14:59. > :15:06.minus castle which is of course the World Heritage site. But there were
:15:06. > :15:13.difficulties in getting the project through. There are two issues. Can
:15:13. > :15:18.do said the policy and the procedures but at local level it is
:15:18. > :15:28.down to the conservation officer to interpret that and the difficulties
:15:28. > :15:32.
:15:32. > :15:36.we have fun with this -- we have found with this is that it was down
:15:36. > :15:41.to the planning department. then you Minister wants Wales's
:15:41. > :15:46.heritage to be much more than static exhibits in a museum. Rather,
:15:46. > :15:55.a means of enriching and in regenerating living communities in
:15:55. > :15:58.Still to come on the programme we will go live to the House of
:15:58. > :16:02.Commons for Prime Minister's Questions at midday.
:16:02. > :16:12.As we said earlier, Cowell Wynne- Jones has outlined his priorities
:16:12. > :16:13.
:16:13. > :16:22.for the next five-year term of the prior to. -- Carwyn Jones.
:16:22. > :16:27.I am joint by it guest to explain what happened yesterday. What did
:16:27. > :16:32.you make to the announcement and the Bill that he has promised.
:16:32. > :16:41.I think it was a busy programme that he set up. 12 major pieces of
:16:41. > :16:45.legislation. I am interested in the to education bills. Also, in
:16:45. > :16:49.particular, the organ donation bill. Some of the assembly should make
:16:49. > :16:55.progress on this. There were questions on whether the assembly
:16:55. > :16:59.has the powers. That would make a huge difference to people across
:16:59. > :17:04.Wales for a long time. We know we simply do not have enough organs
:17:04. > :17:08.being donated so lives are needlessly being lost.
:17:08. > :17:12.That is something the assembly as a whole have indicated a desire to do.
:17:13. > :17:17.You must have been pleased. What did you make of the announcement?
:17:17. > :17:21.am pleased with that particular element, but there was nothing new.
:17:21. > :17:25.We still do not know what the programme of government is and
:17:25. > :17:31.really it was a statement of inactivity. About what Carwyn Jones
:17:31. > :17:39.is not going to do rather than what the governor was not going to do.
:17:39. > :17:44.Scotland is up and running, they are now pressing Westminster to
:17:44. > :17:50.allow things to happen. We have been left in the lurch. You can't
:17:50. > :17:55.have it both ways. He made it clear it is not a full statement. It is
:17:55. > :18:01.only a taster. Within that, what did you make of what was advanced,
:18:01. > :18:04.in particular the Social Care Bill. That could be very significant.
:18:04. > :18:09.That is something to overcome a postcode lottery which people
:18:09. > :18:13.wanted for a long time. There is nothing new about that. It is not
:18:13. > :18:17.the law. It is something discussed in the last government and
:18:17. > :18:23.recognised on all-party basis to get rid of the postcode situation
:18:23. > :18:29.in Wales. What we are looking for from Carwyn Jones is how we eat --
:18:29. > :18:34.how he is going to put the Labour Party manifesto into action.
:18:34. > :18:39.Not just Plaid Cymru, but all of the opposition parties were called
:18:39. > :18:46.yesterday. They did point out there was not much about health,
:18:46. > :18:50.education, planning. There was talk of an overhaul of planning, but no
:18:50. > :18:56.details. It was banned on detail, wasn't it? You would not expect
:18:56. > :19:00.that level of detail because we could only then talk about one bill.
:19:00. > :19:07.12 major Bills implementing the most detailed manifesto that
:19:07. > :19:11.actually puts the people of Wales, I would not say that his inactivity.
:19:11. > :19:16.What about the key issues? There were two major education
:19:16. > :19:20.announcements. Two major bills and putting Welsh education on to a
:19:20. > :19:25.strategic bases. If you look at health, you cannot divorce that
:19:25. > :19:30.front social care. That is about implementing one of our major
:19:30. > :19:34.commitments in the manifesto. This is about getting on with
:19:34. > :19:37.implementing the manifesto, but as you would expect, the first things
:19:37. > :19:41.are the first priorities will legislation. Once those bills come
:19:42. > :19:46.forward, people in the assembly chamber have a lot of work to do it
:19:46. > :19:51.and we are ahead of Scotland. Scotland have not made this sort of
:19:51. > :19:55.statement yet. The comparison with Scotland is not as clear. This is
:19:55. > :19:59.about the government getting on with the business of government.
:19:59. > :20:07.His government getting on with business or not? What do you think?
:20:07. > :20:12.Has there been a period of in -- and surety? I think there is a
:20:12. > :20:17.general recognition that Wales has done a lot over the last few weeks.
:20:17. > :20:21.City ways in Scotland is much different, you cannot draw a direct
:20:21. > :20:27.comparison, but you can see a level of activity in Scotland that is not
:20:27. > :20:31.clear in Wales. Do you think the assembly has been quiet? Not really.
:20:31. > :20:36.I think we have had plenty of announcements of what the
:20:36. > :20:39.government will do. Yesterday was about what we will get on with for
:20:39. > :20:44.the next five years. Thank you very much.
:20:44. > :20:49.Now, attention will be focused on Ed Miliband at Prime Minister's
:20:49. > :20:54.question shortly after he'd be hit back at criticism of his leadership.
:20:54. > :20:58.The Labour leader said voters were more interested in the future of
:20:58. > :21:01.Britain and the gossip and tittle- tattle of Westminster. Our
:21:01. > :21:08.correspondent has been talking to Peter Hain.
:21:08. > :21:12.It has been a challenging week for Ed Miliband and some disappointing
:21:12. > :21:16.opinion poll ratings are Labour. Criticism from Labour MPs, reports
:21:16. > :21:22.of a feud with his brother over leadership, one man who can explain
:21:22. > :21:27.all of this to us, Peter Hain, shadow Secretary of State for Wales.
:21:27. > :21:30.Why isn't Ed Miliband making the sort of impact with the dove --
:21:30. > :21:37.with the public that you would expect? There is one view, the
:21:37. > :21:43.Westminster village the year, here you are in the middle of it, there
:21:43. > :21:49.is an excited frenzy of memos, six years ago, what does that matter?
:21:49. > :21:53.And then tension between brothers, supposedly. That is one debate. The
:21:53. > :21:58.other debate and the other reality is on the ground. What is happening,
:21:58. > :22:03.65,000 new members for the Labour Party, including Wales, all other
:22:03. > :22:07.parties are losing members. We are leading in opinion polls. In Labour
:22:07. > :22:12.we have formed our own government and won a lot of support and also,
:22:12. > :22:18.actually, we have been leading in the opinion polls. Ed Miliband has
:22:18. > :22:23.been the leader when all of that happens. There was an opinion poll
:22:23. > :22:28.on Sunday which suggested Labour supporters thing they have the
:22:28. > :22:32.wrong leader. 54% of Labour elite supporters do not know what Ed
:22:32. > :22:38.Miliband stands for. That has got to worry you. There is no question
:22:38. > :22:42.that he is relatively unknown still. It is just one year since we got
:22:42. > :22:47.our worst results in the general election under Gordon Brown than we
:22:48. > :22:52.have had since universal suffrage. A really terrible result for Labour.
:22:52. > :22:56.Even the most, absolutely magical Labour leader could not have
:22:56. > :23:01.bounced back to be crashing everybody before them. There is
:23:01. > :23:06.still a lot for Labour to do and Ed is absolutely the first to say so.
:23:06. > :23:12.To win back trust and win back support, but we are making big
:23:12. > :23:17.progress. He, yesterday, he on Monday showed in that speech when
:23:18. > :23:22.he criticised both irresponsibility at the top of bankers bonuses and
:23:22. > :23:26.so on, and also those on benefits who are deliberately not working
:23:26. > :23:30.and drawing benefit as opposed to those who have to be on benefits,
:23:30. > :23:35.what he is saying his unique responsibility to go with both ends
:23:35. > :23:40.of the spectrum. He also said that Labour had become too identified
:23:40. > :23:44.with voters with those people who want to take something out of
:23:44. > :23:49.society and not contribute. That is the problem for you, isn't it?
:23:49. > :23:52.is one issue identified. What I think is important about Ed's
:23:52. > :23:57.leadership and why I think he is the right person for the job, is
:23:57. > :24:01.that he has got the strength and the humility to recognise we did
:24:01. > :24:04.not get everything right in government. There was some running
:24:04. > :24:09.for the Labour leadership last year and he seemed to think we should
:24:09. > :24:13.carry on as before. Even though we had lost badly. What he is saying
:24:13. > :24:17.is we will put forward a new vision for the country, we are the party
:24:17. > :24:24.that is saying we should not dump Mussett tuition fees on students,
:24:24. > :24:29.we should not be privatising their NHS, we should not be slapping VAT
:24:29. > :24:35.-- VAT on the economy, all that were done without any mandate.
:24:35. > :24:40.do we get this vision that you say Ed Miliband will deliver? You got a
:24:40. > :24:44.bit of it on Monday. You also got it in terms of his vision for a
:24:44. > :24:47.Britain where the promise of Britain, where every new generation
:24:47. > :24:54.actually has the chance to do better than its predecessor, that
:24:54. > :24:58.is not happening any more under a Tory, Liberal Democrat law. The
:24:58. > :25:02.people in the middle who are not rich or on benefit but working
:25:02. > :25:06.really hard in difficult circumstances to cling on to a job,
:25:06. > :25:11.pay tuition fees, give a chance to their children to get onto the
:25:11. > :25:15.housing ladder, they are being hit in all directions. And also to say
:25:15. > :25:19.that we need to start rolling strong communities again. You are
:25:19. > :25:23.beginning to see a bit of the Ed Miliband vision filled in. Of
:25:23. > :25:29.course there are a lot of attacks and the Tory media are loving it,
:25:29. > :25:35.but actually he is winning support on the ground. There has been a lot
:25:35. > :25:38.in Labour-supporting media as well. You have someone like Liam Byrne in
:25:38. > :25:44.the shadow cabinet -- cabinet saying he has another seven Munster
:25:44. > :25:48.prove himself. I listen to that interview.
:25:48. > :25:53.I listen to that interview and he said Ed will want to be in a
:25:53. > :25:58.position, as I agree, where he is being seen to take the party
:25:58. > :26:04.forward. People have a better idea of who he is and what his vision is.
:26:04. > :26:09.And, you know, you cannot do this overnight. He has always understood
:26:09. > :26:16.that this is a long haul, but we are getting there. 800 new
:26:16. > :26:20.councillors in their English council elections. Victory in Wales
:26:20. > :26:24.and we are getting there and we will pull ourselves back from a
:26:24. > :26:29.dreadful position last year and they Ed and he will move forward.
:26:29. > :26:34.Thank you very much. That was Peter Hain talking to our
:26:34. > :26:38.Correspondent. Before we go back to David, a quick chat with our guests.
:26:38. > :26:43.Before we look ahead to Prime Minister's Questions, both of you
:26:43. > :26:48.wanted to talk about heritage. An emphasis from Huw Lewis that he
:26:48. > :26:53.wants to change in focus from castles to other things throughout
:26:53. > :26:57.the country. We got a hint of it, is that a good idea? Yes. I think
:26:57. > :27:05.that should be welcomed. He was talking about more focus on built
:27:05. > :27:11.heritage and -- on Allah industrial past and understanding word that
:27:11. > :27:16.fits into our identity. That sort of sense of creating an identity
:27:16. > :27:20.and understanding of our past is not that the fall. On the other
:27:20. > :27:26.hand we need to look ahead at selling Wales as a tourism
:27:26. > :27:29.destination. With a unique past, we have to capitalise on that. In
:27:29. > :27:33.particularly people looking at their own routes across the world.
:27:33. > :27:37.One thing I have a bit of a problem with is that it sounds like we
:27:37. > :27:43.might be excluding rural heritage. I think that will be a mistake
:27:43. > :27:48.because that is just as much a part of our national identity as the
:27:48. > :27:55.built heritage. Do you agree? I welcome what Huw Lewis had to say
:27:55. > :28:00.on that. We have come full circle from 50 years ago when there was
:28:00. > :28:03.exclusion from the National Park because there was no inclusion of
:28:03. > :28:07.their special qualities. It is important that we take the whole of
:28:07. > :28:11.Wales including the rural parts to develop that sense of place, links
:28:11. > :28:17.with local three tourism and the kind of thing that will drive our
:28:17. > :28:21.economy forward. I was just going to say we were talking about
:28:21. > :28:26.emissions from thick speech yesterday and one thing not talked
:28:26. > :28:30.about in detail was energy and the environment. The link between our
:28:30. > :28:35.rural heritage and potential plans for energy and how the countryside
:28:35. > :28:40.will be used in future and needs to be considered. One concedes the
:28:40. > :28:48.success of the other. Let's look ahead to Prime
:28:48. > :28:53.Minister's Questions. Last week was dominated by U-turns on sentencing.
:28:53. > :29:00.Some might say there has been a U- turn on health policy this week how
:29:00. > :29:04.has been controversial from the beginning. Radical change is needed
:29:04. > :29:08.to the system and we are not looking for the same sorts of
:29:08. > :29:13.changes in Wales, but what has been valuable is the breathing space and
:29:13. > :29:19.general results from the listening exercise. It has produced results
:29:19. > :29:23.which are to be welcomed if it means the policy can proceed.
:29:23. > :29:27.Proceed and benefit of the English health system. You say it has
:29:28. > :29:32.produced results, you heard on the news, reports of Nick Clegg waving
:29:32. > :29:37.pieces of paper in the air claiming success for 11 of the 13 changes.
:29:37. > :29:40.This cannot be seen as anything other than a victory for the
:29:40. > :29:45.Liberal Democrats. Our spring conference was clear that there was
:29:45. > :29:50.a strong message that had to go back through Nick and the Cabinet
:29:50. > :29:55.ministers that we needed changes here. I welcome the fact that
:29:55. > :30:01.Andrew Lansley has listened on this occasion. Listening to a broader
:30:01. > :30:05.range, not just GPs, but people at all levels. Nurses and surgeons so
:30:05. > :30:09.we have a broader input into the way reforms are going forward. I
:30:09. > :30:15.really think we have some of the excesses of the original draft put
:30:15. > :30:25.to bed. Let's see what everybody is going to be talking about in Prime
:30:25. > :30:42.
:30:42. > :30:48.We expect that there is a growing enthusiasm for public sector
:30:48. > :30:55.workers to come together to form co-operatives or employee lead
:30:55. > :31:05.organisations to carry out public services. These deliver huge
:31:05. > :31:08.
:31:08. > :31:13.increases in productivity and I hope she will give us full support.
:31:13. > :31:19.To what extent does the Minister expect any PCAS strike action to
:31:19. > :31:26.have impact on our vital public services? We're wait to see the
:31:26. > :31:30.result of the ballot this afternoon but I hope that civil servants will
:31:30. > :31:36.recognise that what we are seeking to achieve is a public sector
:31:36. > :31:44.pensions which continued to be the best among the very best available.
:31:44. > :31:50.But people are living longer and they will be asked to work longer.
:31:50. > :31:59.Other tax payers have seen their pensions take a hit. Questions to
:31:59. > :32:06.the Prime Minister. This morning, I had meetings with ministerial
:32:06. > :32:12.colleagues and others and I shall have further such meetings later.
:32:12. > :32:19.Thousands of people in my constituency work hard for less
:32:19. > :32:24.than �26,000 here. Does my friend back agree with me that everybody
:32:24. > :32:32.who believes in the necessity of capping benefits must vote for the
:32:32. > :32:37.Welfare Reform Bill tonight? right honourable friend is entirely
:32:37. > :32:41.right. We are right to reform welfare. Welfare costs are out of
:32:41. > :32:46.control country. We want to make sure that work always pays. If
:32:46. > :32:50.people do the right thing, we will be on this side. It cannot be right
:32:50. > :32:54.for some families to get over �26,000 a year in benefits that is
:32:54. > :33:04.paid for by people who are working hard and paying their taxes.
:33:04. > :33:05.
:33:05. > :33:15.Everyone in the House should support the welfare bill tonight.
:33:15. > :33:19.
:33:20. > :33:25.Ed Miliband. When the Prime Minister signed off his welfare
:33:25. > :33:31.bill, did he know that it would make 7,000 cancer patients worse
:33:31. > :33:36.off by up to �94 a week. That is simply not the case. We are using
:33:36. > :33:38.exactly the same definition of people who are suffering and that
:33:38. > :33:45.terminally ill as the last Government. We were to be sure
:33:45. > :33:49.those people are protected. If you are in favour of welfare reform,
:33:49. > :33:54.you encourage people to do the right thing. It is no good talking
:33:54. > :34:03.about it, you have to vote for it. As usual, he does not know what is
:34:03. > :34:08.in his own bill. Listen to Macmillan Cancer Support. On 13th
:34:08. > :34:11.June the said cancer patients would lose up to �94 a week. These are
:34:11. > :34:16.people who have worked hard all their lives and have done the right
:34:16. > :34:20.thing and have paid their taxes and when they are indeed, the Prime
:34:20. > :34:30.Minister is taking money away from them. I ask him again, how can it
:34:30. > :34:31.
:34:31. > :34:36.be right that people with cancer are losing a �94 a week? We are
:34:36. > :34:41.using precisely the same test as the last Government support it. All
:34:41. > :34:48.we see here is a Labour Party desperate not to support welfare
:34:48. > :34:52.reform and trying to find an excuse. Anyone who is terminally ill gets
:34:52. > :35:02.immediate access to the high level of support and we will provide that
:35:02. > :35:03.
:35:03. > :35:11.to all people who are unable to work. That is the guarantee we make.
:35:11. > :35:17.He does not know the detail of his own bill. Let me explain it to them.
:35:17. > :35:21.Because the Government is stopping contributory employment support
:35:21. > :35:29.allowance after one year for those in work-related activity, cancer
:35:29. > :35:39.patients, 7,000 of them, are losing �94 a week. I ask him again, how
:35:39. > :35:41.
:35:41. > :35:48.can that be right? Order. The question has been asked. The answer
:35:48. > :35:52.will be heard. He is wrong on the specific point. First of all, our
:35:52. > :35:57.definition of terminally ill is exactly the same one used by the
:35:57. > :36:05.last Government. Anyone out of work will be given the extra support
:36:05. > :36:10.that comes from employment support allowance. That will last for 12
:36:10. > :36:15.months. He is wrong and he should admit that he is wrong. On a means-
:36:15. > :36:20.tested basis, this additional support can last indefinitely. He
:36:20. > :36:27.should check his facts before becomes to the House and chickens
:36:27. > :36:33.out of welfare report. In the first dancer he said his policy was the
:36:33. > :36:38.same as the last Government but now he has admitted that he is ending
:36:38. > :36:48.the support of the one-year. Let me tell him what it will a cancer
:36:48. > :36:49.
:36:49. > :36:55.support said. -- Macmillan Cancer Support. This is what they are
:36:55. > :37:00.saying. It is a disgrace that Conservative members are shouting
:37:00. > :37:06.when we are talking about people fighting cancer. This is what they
:37:06. > :37:12.are saying. Many people will lose this benefit simply because they
:37:12. > :37:15.have not recovered quickly enough. I ask him the question again. Will
:37:16. > :37:25.he had met that 7,000 cancer patients are losing up to �94 a
:37:26. > :37:29.
:37:29. > :37:33.week? -- will he admitted. Order. It is a disgrace that members on
:37:33. > :37:40.both sides of the House are shouting their heads off when it
:37:40. > :37:49.matters of the most serious concern are being debated. The public
:37:49. > :37:59.despise this sort of behaviour. This is important and I want to
:37:59. > :38:05.explain to the right honourable Gentleman why he is wrong. The
:38:05. > :38:08.definition is the same one which is six months. Anyone out of work pool
:38:08. > :38:13.lives longer than that will be given the extra support that comes
:38:13. > :38:18.from employment support allowance. That is irrespective of a person's
:38:18. > :38:22.income all their assets and that will last for 12 months, not the
:38:22. > :38:28.six months that the Leader of the Opposition said. This additional
:38:28. > :38:32.support can last indefinitely. It is the same test as the last
:38:32. > :38:38.Government and it is put in place fairly. We have listened carefully
:38:38. > :38:48.to Macmillan Cancer Support and we are reviewing all the medical tests
:38:48. > :38:54.
:38:54. > :39:04.that take place under this system. Why won't you back the Bill?
:39:04. > :39:08.Because I ask the questions and he fails to answer them. The Chief
:39:08. > :39:14.Medical Officer of Macmillan Cancer Support says, in my experience, one
:39:14. > :39:18.year is not long enough for many people to recover from cancer. The
:39:18. > :39:22.serious side effects can last for many months and even years after
:39:22. > :39:28.treatment has finished. It is crucial that patients are not
:39:28. > :39:32.forced to return to work before they're ready. Macmillan Cancer
:39:32. > :39:37.Support has been making this argument for months. I am amazed
:39:37. > :39:42.that the Prime Minister does not know about these arguments. The
:39:42. > :39:48.House of Commons is voting on this bill tonight! I ask him again, will
:39:48. > :39:57.he now admits that 7,000 cancer patients are losing up to �94 a
:39:57. > :40:01.week? I have answered his question three times. The whole point about
:40:01. > :40:09.our benefit reform is that there are proper medical tests so we
:40:09. > :40:13.support those who cannot work as a compassionate country should. But
:40:13. > :40:17.we make sure that those who can work go out to work so we don't
:40:17. > :40:21.reward bad behaviour. He is attempting to put up a smokescreen
:40:21. > :40:24.because he has been found out. He made a speech this week about the
:40:24. > :40:34.importance of welfare reform but he can't take his divided party with
:40:34. > :40:35.
:40:35. > :40:45.them. This is about weak leadership of a divided party. What an
:40:45. > :40:45.
:40:45. > :40:48.absolute disgrace. This is about a people in the country and a chance
:40:48. > :40:58.to cavities who are concerned on their behalf and he does not know
:40:58. > :40:58.
:40:58. > :41:05.his own policy. It is about people recovering from cancer. We know he
:41:05. > :41:14.does not think his policies through. If ever there was a case to pause
:41:14. > :41:17.and listen and reflects, this is it. Why doesn't he do so? What we have
:41:18. > :41:27.seen this week is the right honourable Gentleman get on the
:41:28. > :41:35.
:41:35. > :41:39.wrong side of every issue. On welfare reform, everybody
:41:39. > :41:49.recognises that will for a needs to be reformed apart from the right
:41:49. > :42:21.
:42:21. > :42:26.honourable Gentleman. Order. Prime Minister, one of my constituents
:42:26. > :42:31.was kidnapped and be headed on a recent visit to India. Can you urge
:42:31. > :42:38.the a Vanities to carry out a thorough investigation and bring to
:42:38. > :42:46.account those responsible for this horrendous murder so that my
:42:46. > :42:52.constituents and his family can get some justice for their mother.
:42:52. > :42:58.fully understand and support their wish for justice. The Foreign
:42:58. > :43:00.Office has been providing support and they will arrange to meet with
:43:00. > :43:07.my right honourable friend and the family to see what further
:43:07. > :43:12.assistance we can give. But the responsibility for investigating
:43:12. > :43:22.crime overseas has to rest with the affinities in that country. We
:43:22. > :43:33.
:43:33. > :43:38.cannot interfere in the processes. We know that the deficit... In
:43:38. > :43:48.March, the forecast for the budget deficit was increased by �46
:43:48. > :43:48.
:43:49. > :43:57.billion, �1,000 per person. Will he accept that the cuts are choking
:43:58. > :44:07.growth? He is going too far too fast. The deficit is the price paid
:44:08. > :44:19.
:44:19. > :44:24.for Labour's time in office. Tony Blair in his memoirs said that
:44:24. > :44:28.spending was out of control by 2007. We have to get on top of debt and
:44:28. > :44:38.spending and the deficit. I understand the Labour leader is
:44:38. > :44:41.trying to persuade the Shadow Chancellor that. Good luck to him!
:44:41. > :44:51.Yesterday was the anniversary of the liberation of the Balkan
:44:51. > :44:53.
:44:53. > :44:58.violence. -- islands. Will you remind President Obama when he next
:44:58. > :45:08.sees him that the negotiations over the Falkland Islands with Argentina
:45:08. > :45:13.
:45:13. > :45:17.will never be acceptable to Her My Honourable Friend makes an
:45:17. > :45:21.excellent point and I'm sure everyone will want to remember the
:45:21. > :45:24.anniversary of the successful retaking of the Falkland Islands
:45:24. > :45:29.and the Super bravery of all our armed forces who took part in that
:45:29. > :45:35.action. We should also remember those that fell in terms of taking
:45:35. > :45:37.back the Falklands. The point is a good one. As long as the Falkland
:45:37. > :45:45.Islands want to be sovereign British territory, they should
:45:45. > :45:50.remain so. End of story. This week we have seen the
:45:50. > :45:53.government changed its mind on the NHS, on sentencing, student visas
:45:53. > :45:58.and been collection. Will the Prime Minister tell us whether he will
:45:58. > :46:02.change his mind over government plans to force more than 300,000
:46:02. > :46:06.women to wait up to two years longer before they qualified for
:46:06. > :46:09.state pension? All parties supported the
:46:09. > :46:15.equalisation of the pension age between men and women. That needed
:46:15. > :46:19.to happen. It also needs to happen that we raise pension ages to make
:46:19. > :46:24.sure the system is affordable. The point I would make is that because
:46:24. > :46:28.we have done that, we can reading the pension to earnings and as a
:46:28. > :46:33.result, pensioners of �15,000 better off than they would have
:46:33. > :46:36.been under Labour. I think that is the right thing to do. If anyone
:46:36. > :46:42.opposite wants to be serious about pension reform and dealing with the
:46:42. > :46:47.deficit, they should back these changes.
:46:48. > :46:52.I agree with the Government's timetable for increasing the men's
:46:52. > :46:56.state pension age to 66 because it happens gradually, however I would
:46:56. > :47:01.as the Prime Minister to think again about women's state pension
:47:01. > :47:06.age. The planned timetable has women's planned state pension age
:47:06. > :47:10.going up too quickly and leaves women of my age without enough time
:47:10. > :47:16.to plan for what could be two years extra work. Will the government
:47:16. > :47:21.blaze look at this again. I understand the concern about this.
:47:21. > :47:26.The point I'm making is that over 80% of those effected are only
:47:26. > :47:31.going to see their pension age come in a year later. It is actually a
:47:31. > :47:35.very small number. The key thing here is making sure our pension
:47:35. > :47:39.system is sustainable so we can pay out higher pensions. I have to say
:47:39. > :47:43.there is a similar argument that a house as having had the previous
:47:43. > :47:48.questions about the sustainability of public sector pensions. We have
:47:48. > :47:52.to take is difficult decisions and they actually mean a better pension
:47:53. > :47:56.system for those retiring. Does the Prime Minister agree with
:47:57. > :48:01.the Institute for Fiscal Studies that with inflation at 4.5%, more
:48:01. > :48:05.than twice the target, it is hitting pensioners and low income
:48:05. > :48:10.families the hardest? The point about pensions is there
:48:10. > :48:15.is a triple guarantee that they will go up by earnings or prices,
:48:15. > :48:19.whichever is higher. Clearly we want to see inflation come down.
:48:19. > :48:22.There is a shared agreement across the house, it is right for the Bank
:48:22. > :48:26.of England to have that responsibility, but I notice he
:48:26. > :48:29.does not raise the welcome news that we have seen the biggest fall
:48:29. > :48:33.in unemployment in one month figures then we have seen in any
:48:33. > :48:38.time in a decade. It is time the party opposite start welcoming good
:48:38. > :48:43.news. There is increasing concern within
:48:43. > :48:48.this house and across the country about the hidden suffering of
:48:48. > :48:53.trafficked children. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is essential
:48:53. > :48:58.that a co-ordinated multi-agency approach across the country from
:48:58. > :49:02.borders to local authorities, local police forces and including
:49:02. > :49:08.charitable organisations is promoted urgently?
:49:08. > :49:12.I think she makes an extremely good point. I know how hard the all-
:49:12. > :49:15.party group works on this. One thing that is changing that I hope
:49:15. > :49:21.will make a difference, is the formation of the National crime
:49:21. > :49:28.agency. That will bring organisation to crimes like this.
:49:28. > :49:32.The SNP won a landslide in the recent elections on the Monday to
:49:32. > :49:37.improve the powers of Scottish parliament. Will the Prime Minister
:49:37. > :49:41.respect the Scottish electorate and respect the six proposed
:49:41. > :49:45.improvements in the Scottish bill by the Scottish government?
:49:45. > :49:50.We listen very carefully to what everyone says. We respect the fact
:49:50. > :49:54.that the SNP won a mandate and we are responding positively. The
:49:54. > :49:59.Scotland Bill before the house is a massive extension of devolution. He
:49:59. > :50:03.shakes his head, but it is an extra �12 billion of spending power and
:50:03. > :50:09.we will be going ahead with that am looking at all the proposals that
:50:09. > :50:16.first minister Salmon has. I take the proposal very seriously. It is
:50:16. > :50:20.a two-way street. I I respect the Scottish people, but we are still
:50:20. > :50:30.part -- we are all still part of the United Kingdom.
:50:30. > :50:33.
:50:33. > :50:37.Last week was the 9th anniversary of the Legion. Can we tell them all,
:50:37. > :50:39.will the Prime Minister repeat his assurance that the armed forces
:50:39. > :50:44.government will now be written into law?
:50:44. > :50:47.I can give that assurance and I am delighted that the Royal British
:50:47. > :50:51.Legion has agreed the approach that we will take in the Armed forces
:50:51. > :50:54.Bill. That is now being passed through the house. I am glad that
:50:54. > :50:58.the House of Commons will be welcoming those soldiers as the
:50:58. > :51:02.rest of our armed forces, the bravest of the brave, the best of
:51:03. > :51:06.the best, there isn't too much we can do for those people. That is
:51:06. > :51:13.why the armed forces government matters. That is why we kept our
:51:13. > :51:17.promise to double the allowance to his soldiers serving in Afghanistan.
:51:17. > :51:20.Millions of our constituents are facing big increases in gas and
:51:20. > :51:24.electricity bills. Many will find it difficult to make ends meet.
:51:24. > :51:30.What action is the government going to make to help them?
:51:30. > :51:34.We are taking a range of actions. The fact that you have or will now
:51:34. > :51:40.costing $115 per barrel and gas prices have gone up by 50% over the
:51:40. > :51:44.last year, that as an impact. We are putting �250 million into the
:51:44. > :51:48.warm home discount. We are funding the targeted warm front scheme that
:51:48. > :51:53.will benefit families this year. We are legislating said that social
:51:53. > :51:56.tariffs have to offer the best prices available. We are keeping a
:51:56. > :52:00.promising that Post Office card account holders will get a discount.
:52:00. > :52:04.We are keeping the winter fuel payment and the permanently
:52:04. > :52:09.increase the cold weather payments. We did not just allow it to be
:52:09. > :52:16.increased in the election year, we are keeping those payments.
:52:16. > :52:20.Thank you. Last week my Honourable Friend and I visited a special
:52:20. > :52:24.school near Stafford. In our meetings, parents express gratitude
:52:24. > :52:31.for excellent teaching, but also anxiety over provision for their
:52:31. > :52:35.children over 19. Knowing my Right Honourable friend's concern, what
:52:35. > :52:42.encouragement can you give? A win the support special schools.
:52:42. > :52:46.The pendulum swung too far in favour of inclusion and it is
:52:46. > :52:50.important we give parents and carers proper choices. He raises a
:52:50. > :52:56.very important point which is that many parents of disabled children,
:52:56. > :52:59.when they become young adults, one them to go on studying. Yet
:52:59. > :53:04.currently, the role seemed to suggest that once they've finished
:53:04. > :53:08.a course that is it. Parents ask what to do. We have to find a
:53:08. > :53:12.better answer for parents who are finding their much-loved children
:53:12. > :53:19.living for much longer and 1 then to have a purposeful life.
:53:19. > :53:23.In the face of what are propelling energy price rises, driving
:53:23. > :53:27.pensioners in vulnerable families into fuel poverty every day and a
:53:27. > :53:31.this coalition, could I ask him is he struggling with his energy bill
:53:31. > :53:37.or any of the other 21 millionairess in his cabinet
:53:37. > :53:44.struggling with the energy bill and when is he going to take personally
:53:44. > :53:49.a grip of this situation? The people who seem to be coining
:53:49. > :53:53.it are the ones are working for the last government, but there we are.
:53:53. > :53:56.Clearly feel prices have gone up because of what happened to world
:53:56. > :54:01.oil and gas prices, but this government takes responsibility
:54:01. > :54:05.seriously about trying to help families. That is why he we have
:54:05. > :54:09.frozen council tax. That is why we have taken a set of measures to
:54:09. > :54:15.help with energy bills that I just described. We have also managed to
:54:15. > :54:19.cut petrol tax this year, paid for by the additional tax on the North
:54:19. > :54:23.Sea oil industry. I notice that while the party opposite wants to
:54:23. > :54:28.support the petrol price tax, they don't support their increase in the
:54:28. > :54:32.North Sea oil tax. Absolutely typical of her totally
:54:32. > :54:36.opportunistic opposition. The Prime Minister would be aware
:54:36. > :54:40.that this week is National diabetes Week and the theme this year is,
:54:40. > :54:45.let us talk diabetes to encourage people with the condition to speak
:54:45. > :54:49.out and not feel stigmatised or worried about being discriminated
:54:49. > :54:53.against or joke against in school or in the workplace. Would the
:54:53. > :54:56.Prime Minister police support this campaign?
:54:56. > :55:01.I will certainly support this campaign. I think my Honourable
:55:01. > :55:03.Friend makes a good point which is that many people with diabetes find
:55:04. > :55:09.it an embarrassing illness and something they do not want to talk
:55:09. > :55:12.about, yet it is affecting more people. We have to find a way of
:55:12. > :55:17.encouraging people to come forward and say there is nothing wrong with
:55:17. > :55:22.this. We need to help people manage diabetes particularly because we
:55:22. > :55:26.want to see them have control over health care and spend less time in
:55:26. > :55:29.hospitals so I fully support the campaign. I also think we have to
:55:29. > :55:33.look at the long-term cost of people getting diabetes and
:55:34. > :55:37.recognise it as a health agenda that we need to get hold of.
:55:37. > :55:45.The Prime Minister will know that this is the first opportunity I
:55:45. > :55:49.have had to ask him a question. I stand here, I stand here fresh and
:55:49. > :55:54.full of hope so I am going to give the Prime Minister one more chance
:55:54. > :55:59.to answer the question. People in my constituency up and down the
:55:59. > :56:04.country face enormous increases in energy bills announced by Scottish
:56:04. > :56:09.Power. They need help now. When is the Prime Minister going to keep
:56:10. > :56:14.his promise made in opposition to take tough action on excessive
:56:14. > :56:19.energy pricing? As I said in answer some moments
:56:19. > :56:24.ago, we are taking action. There is only a certain amount you can do
:56:24. > :56:30.when you see fuel prices go up by as much as they have over the last
:56:30. > :56:34.year. 50% in the oil and gas. We do have the warm home discount, the
:56:34. > :56:39.warm front scheme, the fact we are making sure that where there are
:56:39. > :56:42.special tariffs, companies have to offer them to users. Also the point
:56:42. > :56:49.about the Post Office card account holders who do not currently get
:56:49. > :56:53.people who pay by direct debit, we are making sure they get those
:56:53. > :57:01.discounts. She shakes her head, but in one year that is a lot more than
:57:01. > :57:06.the last government did in 13 years. Would my Right Honourable friend
:57:07. > :57:11.congratulate the Ilka Sten who made part of the lace on the Duchess of
:57:12. > :57:15.Cambridge dress. This is the last traditional lace factory and our
:57:15. > :57:19.town centres have declined over recent years as a result of their
:57:19. > :57:23.loss. Would my Right Honourable Friend therefore agree with me that
:57:23. > :57:29.the review by Mary Portas into revitalising our town centres has
:57:29. > :57:34.come at a perfect time and invite the Prime Minister and Mary Portas
:57:34. > :57:37.to the launch. I would be delighted to come to my
:57:37. > :57:40.Right Honourable friend's constituency. I did not know her
:57:40. > :57:44.constituents were responsible for the lace on the Duchess's
:57:44. > :57:48.incredible dress. I feel I will leave today session enriched with
:57:48. > :57:54.that knowledge. We do want to see a growth in manufacturing and
:57:54. > :57:58.production in Britain. What we are seeing in our economy a growth of
:57:58. > :58:05.things that are made in Britain. Whether that is cars, vans or
:58:05. > :58:13.indeed lace for dresses. The United States Secretary of
:58:13. > :58:19.State, Robert Gates, has said, Secretary of Defence, has said that
:58:19. > :58:29.the NATO operation in Libya has exposed serious capability gaps.
:58:29. > :58:34.
:58:34. > :58:38.The First Sea Lord, the First Sea Lord... The First Sea Lord, Admiral
:58:38. > :58:42.marks Stanhope has said that the operations in Libya cannot be
:58:42. > :58:52.sustained for longer than three months without serious cuts
:58:52. > :58:58.
:58:58. > :59:01.elsewhere. Given those problems... Order! A quick sentence. Isn't it
:59:01. > :59:06.time the Prime Minister reopened the defence review and did yet
:59:06. > :59:13.another U-turn on his failing policies?
:59:13. > :59:16.He is called Marx than hope, if that helps. I had a meeting with a
:59:16. > :59:20.First Sea Lord yesterday and he agreed that we can sustain the
:59:20. > :59:24.mission as long as we need to. Those are the exact words used
:59:24. > :59:27.yesterday because we are doing the right thing. I want one simple
:59:27. > :59:35.message to go out from every part of this government and indeed every
:59:35. > :59:40.part of this house of -- Commons, that is that time is on our side.
:59:40. > :59:46.We have right on our side, the pressure is building and time is
:59:46. > :59:50.running out for Gaddafi. On issue of defence review, I would say this,
:59:50. > :59:55.for 10 years, they did not have a defence review and now they want to
:59:55. > :00:00.in a rare! At the end of this review we had the 4th highest
:00:00. > :00:10.defence budget for any country in this world. We have superb armed
:00:10. > :00:12.
:00:12. > :00:17.forces doing a great job in the By the time Prime Minister's
:00:17. > :00:21.Questions finished, many children will have died from preventable
:00:21. > :00:28.diseases. Increasing Britain's aid budget is very much the right thing
:00:28. > :00:38.to do and will save millions of lives across the globe. I very much
:00:38. > :00:40.
:00:40. > :00:44.welcome the support from the right honourable Gentleman. We are
:00:44. > :00:49.keeping a promise to the poorest people in the poorest countries of
:00:49. > :00:54.the world and we are saving lives. Of course things are difficult at
:00:54. > :00:58.home but I think we should keep that promise. The second point is
:00:59. > :01:06.about making sure our aid budget is spent specifically on things like
:01:06. > :01:10.vaccinations for children that will save lives. The money we have
:01:10. > :01:17.announced will mean a life saved every two minutes. Anyone who has
:01:17. > :01:21.doubts about this issue, I really think that as well as a saving
:01:21. > :01:31.lives it is about Britain standing up for something in the world and
:01:31. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :01:40.the importance of having a strong aid budgets a saving lives. N this
:01:40. > :01:43.carers week when we celebrate the contribution of care assistants and
:01:44. > :01:50.the families will have after their loved ones, will the Prime Minister
:01:50. > :01:57.join with me in condemning Birmingham City Council for cutting
:01:57. > :02:01.care to 4,100 of the most vulnerable in our city. Can I ask
:02:01. > :02:11.the Prime Minister what he intends to do to ensure that never again
:02:11. > :02:13.
:02:13. > :02:17.does Birmingham City Council fail the elderly and the disabled?
:02:17. > :02:22.will be having a reception tonight to celebrate carers week. What this
:02:22. > :02:28.Government is doing is putting in �400 million to give carers war
:02:28. > :02:38.breaks and specifically putting in �800 million to make sure that
:02:38. > :02:44.
:02:44. > :02:49.those looking after disabled children get regular breaks. Last
:02:49. > :02:53.night on Channel 4, there was a documentary called the killing
:02:53. > :03:02.fields showing the atrocity -- atrocities committed by the Sri
:03:02. > :03:08.Lankan Government. Will the Prime Minister join me in calling for
:03:08. > :03:18.justice? I did not see the documentary but I understand it was
:03:18. > :03:18.
:03:18. > :03:23.an extremely powerful programme. What the Government has said is
:03:23. > :03:25.that the Sri Lankan Government does need to be investigated and the
:03:25. > :03:35.United Nations needs to be investigated and we need to get to
:03:35. > :03:44.
:03:44. > :03:54.the bottom of what happened. Does he agree that standards of
:03:54. > :04:03.corporate governance in the city of London is critical? It is an
:04:03. > :04:06.important point. We want companies to come to London to access capital
:04:06. > :04:10.and we are an open global economy. But those companies have to
:04:10. > :04:18.understand that we do have rules of corporate governance and they are
:04:18. > :04:26.there for a reason. They need to obey those rules. I'm sure the
:04:26. > :04:34.Chancellor will address that in his speech tonight. Does the Prime
:04:34. > :04:38.Alastair agree with me that if the coalition Government had not
:04:38. > :04:47.adopted the current economic policy, mortgage interest rates could be 5%
:04:47. > :04:50.higher than what they are now? this country today, tragically we
:04:50. > :04:55.still have free levels of Government debt that we have German
:04:55. > :04:59.interest rates. That is an enormous boost to our economy and we should
:04:59. > :05:06.all welcome the cut in unemployment today. If we had not taken action
:05:06. > :05:15.on the deficit we would be straight back in the mess that that lot left
:05:15. > :05:25.us in. Order. That is the end of Question Time. It was dominated by
:05:25. > :05:29.
:05:29. > :05:37.exchanges between David Cameron and Ed Miliband over welfare. Back to
:05:37. > :05:44.the studio in Cardiff. I am joined by Suzy Davies and
:05:44. > :05:48.William Powell. There were exchanges between Ed Miliband and
:05:48. > :05:54.the Prime Minister. We talked about Ed Miliband before the session and
:05:54. > :06:04.David Cameron said twice that he was a weak leader of a divided
:06:04. > :06:07.
:06:07. > :06:17.party. I don't think Ed Miliband did a lot today to to prove that
:06:17. > :06:23.
:06:23. > :06:33.wrong. How did you feel about Ed Miliband's performance? It was a
:06:33. > :06:34.
:06:34. > :06:44.strong message from David Cameron and I am sure that Labour
:06:44. > :06:46.
:06:46. > :06:52.supporters would want to have seen a strong Ed Miliband. He did not
:06:52. > :06:55.really attack him on the NHS. attacked him on one topic and David
:06:56. > :07:02.Cameron had one answer. Instead of going for weaker points, he
:07:02. > :07:10.continued on the same road. David Cornock suggested that MPs will be
:07:10. > :07:17.voting on the welfare bill tonight and capping it at �26,000. What do
:07:17. > :07:24.you think about those proposals? think they offer a useful step in
:07:24. > :07:34.terms of addressing the need to reform welfare. We have to go with
:07:34. > :07:40.
:07:40. > :07:47.those. The figure of �26,000 is interesting. In the last election,
:07:47. > :07:53.people were saying why Our next door neighbours getting more
:07:53. > :07:57.benefits than we are. The coalition Government in London wants to be
:07:57. > :08:07.fair and we have to be fair to the people who do their best. Having
:08:07. > :08:07.
:08:07. > :08:14.said that, some people may struggle on �26,000. But there are other
:08:14. > :08:20.means of looking after those people. Fuel poverty was often mentioned.
:08:20. > :08:30.You represent the rural constituency. Is fuel poverty see
:08:30. > :08:31.
:08:31. > :08:36.this issue? It is a really serious issue. The Liberal Democrats are
:08:36. > :08:44.very strong on promoting greater energy efficiency and that is a
:08:44. > :08:52.critical message as well to address that important point. Also, we need
:08:52. > :08:56.to see more progress on issues around fairness on fuel prices as
:08:56. > :09:01.well. That is another issue that is very important in west Wales.
:09:01. > :09:09.Davies, you were suggesting that you would meet the criteria for
:09:09. > :09:13.fuel poverty. It gives the indication of how seriously this
:09:13. > :09:18.particular problem affects the whole of Britain. The difficulty
:09:18. > :09:26.for the Government is that most of the levers that caused the rise in
:09:26. > :09:30.fuel prices are not believers over which they have any control. But
:09:30. > :09:35.there is a very critical report that is still out there and I hope
:09:35. > :09:45.the Government in London looks very closely at it because there are
:09:45. > :09:54.
:09:54. > :09:58.suggestions that the crisis need not be as high as they are.
:09:58. > :10:03.need to be active in shopping around to punish companies that are
:10:03. > :10:06.taking liberties. A coming up on the programme, Lord Barnett on the
:10:06. > :10:15.Barnett formula and the way in which Wales is funded from
:10:16. > :10:23.Westminster. The last Government has a new chief lead adviser. --
:10:23. > :10:27.the Welsh Government. Some Assembly Members have raised concerns that
:10:27. > :10:36.he has not had much experience in public law but when he met our
:10:36. > :10:43.political editor earlier this week, he brushed that aside. I did not
:10:43. > :10:47.think that much about it in advance when the question was raised. I
:10:48. > :10:57.take the view that if you are a lawyer, you why a lawyer. You need
:10:57. > :11:07.to be flexible and I feel quite happy they can do that. I have been
:11:07. > :11:13.
:11:13. > :11:18.a Government panel council adviser for a long time in various forms. I
:11:18. > :11:25.have not spent the last two years dealing with the workings of
:11:25. > :11:29.Government. That could be an advantage. Absolutely. If one
:11:29. > :11:37.compares the position, I understand the role I am being asked to fill
:11:37. > :11:42.is that of law officer. It has traditionally been the role of the
:11:42. > :11:46.Attorney-General. If I look at the examples of people who have taken
:11:46. > :11:56.that role, very rarely have they come from the ranks of specialist
:11:56. > :11:57.
:11:57. > :12:04.public liars. Very often, they come from common-law background. Family
:12:04. > :12:09.lawyers and people who deal with what life is about on the ground.
:12:09. > :12:14.One hopes experience of that kind is useful applied across all fields
:12:14. > :12:21.of the law and legislation that the Government has to deal with. Simon
:12:21. > :12:28.Thomas said your appointment smelt of old boy a Labour network. Are
:12:29. > :12:37.you a member of the Labour Party? How do you lay that accusation to
:12:37. > :12:44.rest? By saying that I have never been involved with or in the
:12:44. > :12:54.Government of Wales or the internal workings of the Welsh Labour Party.
:12:54. > :12:54.
:12:54. > :13:01.It is of no surprise to me that the Government wanted somebody who is
:13:01. > :13:06.sympathetic to the position the Government might take on things.
:13:06. > :13:16.But if they is an old boy network in Welsh Labour, I am not part of
:13:16. > :13:28.
:13:28. > :13:30.it. But you politics is neutral. am very much appointed to be the
:13:31. > :13:38.independent adviser to the Government. If it is necessary to
:13:38. > :13:48.tell the Government it has done something that is not lawful, I am
:13:48. > :13:53.
:13:53. > :14:03.going to tell them. So you're politics does not sway your views?
:14:03. > :14:05.
:14:05. > :14:14.It will not sway my view. As for being mutual, who is neutral? My
:14:14. > :14:18.advice will be neutral but if you say I am not entirely neutral as a
:14:18. > :14:26.member of the Labour Party, I have rarely met people who are
:14:26. > :14:34.completely neutral. Politically. Is this the first of many interviews
:14:34. > :14:38.or is it the case of goodbye and get on with your work? I am always
:14:38. > :14:48.open and transparent. It will depend on how interesting you and
:14:48. > :14:56.
:14:56. > :15:03.your colleagues find the work of the Council general as time goes on.
:15:03. > :15:13.And if they come knocking and fear is an important question to ask?
:15:13. > :15:18.
:15:18. > :15:24.The Plaid Cymru AM, Jocelyn Davies, is calling on the big government to
:15:24. > :15:28.look at the pressures on younger people in Wales.
:15:28. > :15:31.I am joined with Jocelyn Davies, you raise the issue of the
:15:31. > :15:37.sexualisation of children, the fact they are grown old before their
:15:37. > :15:42.time. What does that cover? And lot of things. One thing I wanted to
:15:42. > :15:46.raise was the pressure on young people are certainly in terms of
:15:46. > :15:51.drugs and alcohol. You are quite right, the issue of becoming adults
:15:51. > :15:55.before their time. I feel they are being robbed of their childhood. I
:15:55. > :16:01.feel this is something we should be concerned about. I am not sure
:16:01. > :16:04.young people are as concerned as adults, but there has recently been
:16:04. > :16:08.the baby review by the UK government which looked at this
:16:08. > :16:12.issue about their sexualisation of young people and made a number of
:16:12. > :16:16.recommendations. I know that members yesterday were concerned to
:16:16. > :16:22.hear about the clothes that are marketed under services and that
:16:23. > :16:25.sort of thing. Really, the inappropriateness. In the past they
:16:25. > :16:30.might have been more scope for parents to resist that kind of
:16:30. > :16:33.thing on behalf of their children. Now with the internet and mobile
:16:33. > :16:38.phones, it is more difficult for parents to police what they
:16:38. > :16:42.youngsters up to. I suppose it is, but certainly with some of the
:16:42. > :16:48.examples we heard yesterday, it would seem as if parents are part
:16:48. > :16:53.of it. You can buy a baby's bib with future porn star written on it.
:16:53. > :16:58.Absolutely ridiculous. What I wanted to say is that all of these
:16:58. > :17:03.pressures exist, we cannot turn the clock back to the days perhaps a
:17:03. > :17:06.long time ago when I was a child, but I remember very idyllic
:17:07. > :17:10.childhood way you played outside all day and climb trees. Those days
:17:10. > :17:14.are probably gone, there are pressures on youngsters and what I
:17:14. > :17:17.would like to do is have some investigation in Wales about this
:17:17. > :17:23.issue to see whether there are things that we can do to equip
:17:23. > :17:29.young people to resist advertising and marketing so that they can have
:17:29. > :17:33.their child would for as long as possible. The education? Do schools
:17:33. > :17:38.and education. I would like us to get involved with the children's
:17:38. > :17:43.commissioner. Although there is a lot of research being done in Wales,
:17:43. > :17:47.a lot of women want to see what the links are between early
:17:47. > :17:51.sexualisation and domestic abuse later on. The things you are
:17:51. > :17:55.subject to as a child he will carry through to adult life. A lot of
:17:55. > :17:59.work to be done. It is good to see that people are attending to this
:17:59. > :18:04.issue. And sure many of us are happy that that is the case. Thank
:18:04. > :18:08.you very much. Now, a week does not go by when
:18:08. > :18:13.someone does not mention reforming the Barnett formula which we love
:18:13. > :18:18.talking about here. The formula is the way in which Wales is funded
:18:18. > :18:23.from Westminster. The issue is being raised in the Lords today by
:18:23. > :18:28.Lord Barnett he came up with a plan in the 1970s. He has been talking
:18:28. > :18:33.to our Correspondent. Regular viewers will be well aware
:18:33. > :18:38.of what the Barnett formula is, it is a formula that the UK government
:18:38. > :18:41.uses to allocate money to different parts of the UK based on population
:18:42. > :18:47.size. The man who devised that Formula back in the seventies now
:18:47. > :18:52.wants to change it to a more needs based system. He has a short debate
:18:52. > :18:57.this evening. I am pleased to say he joins me now. Lord Barnett, why
:18:57. > :19:01.have you know changed your mind? changed my mind some time ago
:19:01. > :19:09.because it was quite of the us on the figures that it was unfair all
:19:09. > :19:16.round. Not just because of the annual changes, but the base as a
:19:16. > :19:21.select committee on the House of Lords found, the basis, even if
:19:21. > :19:26.changing it every ewe was fair, it would not be fair because the base
:19:26. > :19:33.is wrong. They are suggesting and I am suggesting this evening that it
:19:33. > :19:40.should be changed to one based on need, not just on the annual
:19:40. > :19:44.changes. You have to get the base right. I believe if it is based on
:19:44. > :19:50.need, Wales will do slightly better than now. Scotland would do much
:19:50. > :19:55.worse. Is it perhaps the problem with the needs based formula that
:19:55. > :20:01.it might be too complicated and prohibitively so? That has all
:20:01. > :20:05.always been that argument not to do anything. The Chief Secretary when
:20:05. > :20:10.the select committee was set up express that view that it was too
:20:10. > :20:20.complicated to do anything about it. The select committee of the House
:20:20. > :20:25.
:20:25. > :20:31.of Lords chaired by a Welshman, he unanimously, that they decided that
:20:31. > :20:37.it should be an independent commission that would annually,
:20:37. > :20:43.first of all look at the base and then add up the changes. Based on
:20:43. > :20:47.need they felt that could be done. He would be aware that the
:20:47. > :20:53.Commission two years ago said that through the Barnett formula Wells
:20:53. > :20:57.was underfunded to the tune of �300 million per year. The UK has
:20:57. > :21:01.accepted that, but say at the moment the important thing is
:21:01. > :21:07.getting to grips with the economy and this has been kicked into the
:21:07. > :21:12.long grass, perhaps. How urgent is the need to reform the formula?
:21:12. > :21:19.As far as Scotland is concerned, it is very urgent because it is
:21:19. > :21:23.grossly unfair. They get much more than Wales and England and
:21:23. > :21:28.certainly parts of England in the north-west would do much better
:21:28. > :21:34.based on need and so would the north-east of England. So I believe
:21:34. > :21:41.it is vital that the changes made. The instant thing is, when you
:21:41. > :21:47.talked about the committee report, I put a question a year or so ago
:21:47. > :21:52.to the Treasury of Minister of the House of Lords and asked whether
:21:52. > :21:55.they would change to the basis of need. He said, as you have
:21:56. > :22:04.mentioned, the priority must be getting the balance of the Budget
:22:04. > :22:07.right. I would suggest, therefore, that it starts in 2015 and I will
:22:07. > :22:15.be moving in due course to the Scotland Bill which will effect
:22:15. > :22:20.Wales, of course. It should be changed from 2015. The government
:22:20. > :22:26.cannot argue that in 2015 the priorities would not have been met
:22:27. > :22:31.because that is their whole policy. I don't agree with it, but their
:22:31. > :22:38.economic policy is intended to bring the balance right and bring
:22:38. > :22:42.the deficit in land by 2015, so they cannot argue that face and --
:22:42. > :22:49.argue that case and I don't think they have any other.
:22:49. > :22:55.The older people's commissioner, Ruth marks, is calling for greater
:22:55. > :22:59.protection for the elderly. She is with Mark in Oriel.
:22:59. > :23:03.As older people's commissioner, Elder abuse must be a great concern.
:23:03. > :23:07.It has a special international Day to mark awareness of that today.
:23:07. > :23:15.What does it involve? In must involve a number of different
:23:15. > :23:20.concerns. That is right. Wild elder abuse awareness Day marked on their
:23:20. > :23:26.15th June across the-world is in its 6th year. It is important to
:23:26. > :23:31.raise awareness and also highlight the various tours around to
:23:31. > :23:35.challenge elder abuse. Fundamentally elder abuse -- abuse
:23:35. > :23:41.is rooted in the fact that there is age discrimination in society.
:23:41. > :23:47.Because we do not value elders in the way that we should, Elder abuse
:23:47. > :23:54.can take many different forms. mean it is -- I realise it is
:23:54. > :23:58.multi-faceted, but is it to look at infringements of different rights?
:23:58. > :24:03.Quite often people who are opposing these rights think they are doing
:24:03. > :24:09.the older person a favour. You have made a good point, but Elder abuse
:24:09. > :24:15.can take many forms and can be very complicated. At his most extreme,
:24:15. > :24:18.it includes physical attack, sexual abuse, financial scams and neglect.
:24:18. > :24:24.Often people who are living and working with older people believe
:24:24. > :24:28.that they might be doing the best for them, but perhaps not the most
:24:28. > :24:34.appropriate. That is why it is important to have the right adult
:24:34. > :24:37.protection legislation imposed. have all seen that. People who are
:24:37. > :24:43.very well-intentioned, Gobi on patronising an older person into
:24:43. > :24:48.denying them a voice. Taking care of them and saying they will do
:24:48. > :24:51.everything for them. It is denying them freedom. Most older people are
:24:52. > :24:56.perfectly capable of protecting themselves. They have a voice and
:24:56. > :25:01.know how to use it and also voiced any concerns if they have spent,
:25:01. > :25:04.but some all the people are incredibly vulnerable and it is
:25:05. > :25:09.vulnerable older people that we need to make sure our legislation
:25:09. > :25:13.is there to protect and to make sure that their rights are complete
:25:13. > :25:16.the safeguarded. You have a guide that has been
:25:16. > :25:21.published today on this issue, is that aimed at people working in
:25:21. > :25:27.care homes with older people? it is a practical guide for people
:25:27. > :25:31.working directly with older people in social services setting than
:25:31. > :25:35.hospitals because they find the current legislation too complicated.
:25:35. > :25:39.This is a user-friendly guide to be used on a daily basis and we hope
:25:39. > :25:49.it will go some way towards enabling people to recognise elder
:25:49. > :25:55.abuse. Thank you very much indeed. That is all from mark in the Oriel
:25:55. > :26:00.today. We have a few minutes here in this studio. We will talk about
:26:00. > :26:06.Lord Barnett if we could. Even he thinks his formula should be
:26:06. > :26:08.reformed. All parties feel that here, but your party in the UK
:26:08. > :26:14.government don't seem to want to do anything.
:26:15. > :26:18.I don't know if that is strictly fair. At the moment. It is this
:26:18. > :26:23.coalition that has promised to look at the Barnett formula situation
:26:23. > :26:25.and I'm sure that will happen. It should not be a surprise to anyone
:26:25. > :26:35.that the government has to concentrate on the debt at the
:26:35. > :26:39.moment. I am confident that we will hear from someone at some point.
:26:39. > :26:44.was made clear by Nick Clegg at the Welsh party conference in March
:26:44. > :26:49.that there would be some kind of commission similar to the
:26:49. > :26:53.Commission in Scotland who set up by the government, but when?
:26:54. > :26:57.need progress on this soon. It was really good to hear the author of
:26:57. > :27:02.the whole thing coming on board. The Liberal Democrats were one of
:27:02. > :27:06.the first on the pitch on this issue. We really need movement soon.
:27:06. > :27:11.The idea of parking it for the medium term because of deficit
:27:11. > :27:14.reduction is not really going to be adequate and we within the Welsh
:27:14. > :27:19.Liberal Democrats are pushing our colleagues in London hard on this
:27:19. > :27:23.one. Could there be a suggestion that it has been kicked into the
:27:23. > :27:31.long grass for another reason, that Scottish independence is on the
:27:31. > :27:35.radar, on the agenda. Joel Barnett suggested there that Scotland gets
:27:35. > :27:39.too much so no government would want to take that away from
:27:39. > :27:43.Scotland ahead of a referendum. don't think that would be a basis
:27:43. > :27:49.argument for the London government to consider. It is an interesting
:27:49. > :27:52.situation with Scotland, isn't it? It is certainly overpaid under the
:27:52. > :27:58.current system and I can imagine Scotland will not want to lose
:27:58. > :28:03.money. On the other hand, they have tax-varying powers. If that is
:28:03. > :28:07.taken away I wonder whether the SNP government would have the guts to
:28:08. > :28:12.use those powers. We will see whether responsibilities life.
:28:12. > :28:16.We talked about tax-raising powers, they something that you and your
:28:16. > :28:19.party would like to see here? the first instance we would really
:28:19. > :28:28.like to see the right for the Welsh government to be able to borrow
:28:28. > :28:32.more flexibly to invest in major regeneration projects on future
:28:32. > :28:36.business rate income. I think that should come before we start