18/01/2012

:00:20. > :00:24.Good morning and welcome to the programme. We've got our first

:00:24. > :00:26.Westminster Happy Hour of 2012 for you coming up. In a moment we'll

:00:26. > :00:31.take you to the Commons for Prime Minister's Questions and Welsh

:00:31. > :00:35.Questions. You can get in touch with us while were on air via

:00:35. > :00:44.Twitter. The address is @walespolitics or you can send an

:00:44. > :00:48.Before we go off to Westminster, a quick chat with my guests. The

:00:48. > :00:53.Labour AM Mark Drakeford and the Conservative, Nick Ramsay.

:00:53. > :00:57.Good morning. Before we go over to the Commons, let's start with the

:00:57. > :01:01.monthly unemployment figures out this morning. A headline figure,

:01:01. > :01:07.coming from someone who doesn't really understand statistics,

:01:07. > :01:12.unemployment has fallen slightly on the quarter. In Wales it stands at

:01:12. > :01:17.8.9% compared to 8.4% across the UK. An intimate going down has to be

:01:17. > :01:21.good news. -- unemployment going down.

:01:21. > :01:25.If it was true, that would be good news for Wales. If you look behind

:01:25. > :01:29.the monthly figures, you find unemployment in Wales is growing

:01:29. > :01:33.year on year, the trend is upwards. Vacancies are down.

:01:33. > :01:37.Unemployment is up 7,000 on the year.

:01:37. > :01:41.The rate of unemployment is growing over the year as well. Very sad to

:01:41. > :01:47.say because these are dreadful consequences for individuals and

:01:47. > :01:51.families. The Edward for unemployment is bleak in Wales. --

:01:51. > :01:56.the outlook. Nick, we wouldn't necessarily

:01:56. > :02:00.expect Mark to consider that positive? Let's have an alternative

:02:00. > :02:04.view from new? On the face of it, any drop in

:02:04. > :02:10.unemployment is a good thing. Mark is right, you have to look at the

:02:10. > :02:14.long-term picture. Let's not forget that the bells government itself

:02:14. > :02:19.has a role to play in unemployment. We need to have an advance on

:02:19. > :02:24.things like enterprise zones in Wales and we keep up with England.

:02:24. > :02:28.There is a debate on the wing about when we will hear more about

:02:28. > :02:34.enterprise zones. Carwyn Jones says he doesn't have all of the fact so

:02:34. > :02:40.we can't make the announcement. Andrew RT Davies, you would leader,,

:02:40. > :02:44.said he was not convinced. At the end of the day, the Welsh

:02:44. > :02:48.government does have tools at its disposal. We think it to be doing

:02:48. > :02:51.more than it is to alleviate the problems we are facing.

:02:51. > :02:57.Mark Drakeford, enterprise zones aren't going to be the only cure.

:02:57. > :03:00.The biggest problems is youth unemployment. What can the Welsh

:03:00. > :03:02.government do to contribute to erasing that?

:03:02. > :03:09.That is where the Welsh government is doing something intensely

:03:09. > :03:13.practical. The Welsh jobs growth fund which the government has put

:03:13. > :03:19.in place. The coalition government scrapped across the UK and it is

:03:19. > :03:23.trying to reinvent it all over again. You look at the figures and

:03:23. > :03:28.youth unemployment over the UK is well over a million and it's almost

:03:28. > :03:32.a quarter of all young people in the UK are now unemployed. In Wales,

:03:32. > :03:35.we have a plan which will eat into that, it won't solve the whole

:03:35. > :03:39.problem but it is a very active, very practical and focused scheme

:03:39. > :03:42.that will bring thousands of young people off the dole and into work

:03:42. > :03:46.in Wales and that wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for the

:03:46. > :03:50.Welsh government plan. Your party will probably been -- be

:03:50. > :03:54.in a bit of a pickle. Do you support things like this the Welsh

:03:54. > :03:58.government are doing when the UK government scrapped the future jobs

:03:58. > :04:02.fund? Listening to mark, there, he does

:04:02. > :04:05.say a lot of things which do resonate but I think on that

:04:05. > :04:09.broader picture, things like the jobs fund which has gone in the UK,

:04:09. > :04:14.we've got to remember the legacy which was inherited by the

:04:14. > :04:17.Westminster government. I regret certain things had to go but we had

:04:17. > :04:21.to deal with the economic situation. The UK government is getting on

:04:21. > :04:24.with doing that and it is for the boss government to play its part

:04:24. > :04:30.with them. We will be back to you within the

:04:30. > :04:33.hour. Let's cross over to Westminster, now.

:04:33. > :04:37.Figures show some encouraging signs but there is much to do to insure

:04:37. > :04:40.the session does not leave a legacy of worthlessness in Wales. The

:04:40. > :04:46.government could remains committed to creating the right conditions

:04:46. > :04:51.for the private sector to grow. 46% of the workers in my

:04:51. > :04:56.constituency, 45% of my workers in the Honourable Member's

:04:56. > :05:00.constituency, work in the public sector. The coalition sacked the

:05:00. > :05:05.public sector workers and the private sector jobs would increase,

:05:05. > :05:09.that was the theory. Can the Minister ask me how many private

:05:09. > :05:15.sector jobs were created in his constituency in the last six months

:05:15. > :05:20.and also in my constituency. The Honourable Gentleman repeatedly

:05:20. > :05:24.raises the issue of public sector jobs in Wales. He will know that it

:05:24. > :05:31.is generally agreed that Wales is at over-dependent on the public

:05:31. > :05:34.sector and and are dependent on the private sector. The creation of

:05:34. > :05:40.private sector jobs is largely the responsibility of the Welsh

:05:40. > :05:45.Assembly Government which is, of course, his party is in control of.

:05:45. > :05:50.The potential risks of jobs in relation to peacocks is a worry to

:05:50. > :05:53.all in South Wales and well beyond in the United Kingdom. What action

:05:53. > :05:57.can the Minister take with his colleagues here in Westminster and

:05:57. > :06:01.in co-ordination with the Welsh government? Will he pledged to do

:06:01. > :06:06.everything possible to help them find a funder to secure these jobs

:06:06. > :06:10.over the long term? Yes, Mr Speaker. The issue of

:06:10. > :06:17.Peacocks is one of great concern, not just to Wales but to the whole

:06:17. > :06:20.of the UK. 10,000 people are employed by Peacocks. The Secretary

:06:20. > :06:24.of State has been in communication with the Secretary of State for

:06:24. > :06:29.business to discuss this issue and understand that the Welsh

:06:29. > :06:36.government minister has been in contact with the Minister of State.

:06:36. > :06:42.Figures published yesterday by the TUC estimate that between now and

:06:42. > :06:46.2017, another 40,000 public sector jobs will be lost in Wales. What is

:06:46. > :06:52.his department during to stem that loss and generally, what is his

:06:52. > :06:57.department doing to assist the economy of Wales? The Honourable

:06:57. > :07:00.Gentleman is right, the old BR figures do project there will be a

:07:00. > :07:07.loss of public sector jobs. At the same time, the figures predict

:07:07. > :07:10.there will be a gain of 1.7 million private sector jobs doing the same

:07:10. > :07:13.period and my department is strongly engaged with the

:07:14. > :07:19.Department of business very, very closely indeed to do all we can to

:07:19. > :07:22.ensure that the private sector grows in Wales.

:07:22. > :07:26.The Secretary of State and the Minister will know, and you just

:07:26. > :07:31.referred to the awful news about Peacocks. Taxpayers' money,

:07:32. > :07:36.billions of pounds of taxpayers' money pumped into the bank's wasn't

:07:36. > :07:42.pumped in so that those banks can now pull the plug on companies like

:07:42. > :07:49.Peacocks. Can I ask him and his right on will print -- Right

:07:49. > :07:52.Honourable friend to save this company?

:07:52. > :07:57.The Right Honourable Gentleman makes a very important point which

:07:57. > :08:02.is quite correct. He will understand, I'm sure, at this is

:08:02. > :08:06.very early days in this unfortunate saga. Our department is liaising

:08:06. > :08:11.with the Department of business to do all we can to insure those jobs,

:08:11. > :08:16.if possible, can be saved. Number two.

:08:16. > :08:20.I've had a range of meetings with what government ministers and look

:08:20. > :08:24.forward to meeting the minister for business on 6th February when they

:08:24. > :08:28.plan to discuss, amongst other things, inward investment.

:08:28. > :08:32.She will know that RBS are blaming a lack of investors for their

:08:32. > :08:36.decision to pull the plug on a deal to save Peacocks, threatening

:08:36. > :08:40.thousands of jobs. My constituents can't understand why they were

:08:41. > :08:45.expected to bail out RBS but RBS are refusing to help them in their

:08:45. > :08:52.hour of need. What is she doing to talk to RBS about their

:08:52. > :08:55.responsibilities in this matter? Mr Speaker, can I say first of all

:08:56. > :09:01.at the moment I heard about Peacocks, I discussed it with the

:09:01. > :09:05.Secretary of State for business, innovation and skills. The minister

:09:05. > :09:09.for business has spoken to the Minister of State for the

:09:09. > :09:13.Department of business, innovation and skills. I have the greatest of

:09:13. > :09:19.sympathy. I have shopped in Peacock's myself and I know how

:09:19. > :09:23.many jobs depend on Peacocks. It's important weak export every

:09:23. > :09:29.possibility but I won't stand in this dispatch box and make any

:09:29. > :09:34.false promises. We are going to look at what we can do for Peacocks

:09:34. > :09:37.but it will involve the Welsh government, as he well knows.

:09:37. > :09:40.What the Secretary of State agree that inward investment eight N

:09:40. > :09:44.important part in the economy of Wales but to have an impact, we

:09:44. > :09:51.have to work together with Westminster and Cardiff. Is it not

:09:51. > :09:54.disappointing the Welsh Assembly seems reluctant to speak to the

:09:54. > :09:59.department to provide growth? My Honourable Friend is right. I

:09:59. > :10:02.was disappointed in the article in the Western Mail today to see that

:10:02. > :10:08.no reference was made to working with the Department of business,

:10:08. > :10:12.innovation and skills on an interview on this very subject.

:10:12. > :10:18.I've always advocated that we should be working together. I was

:10:18. > :10:25.delighted to see that my Honourable Friend, Lord Greene, who is

:10:25. > :10:32.responsible for UK TI, has opened an invitation to every single MP to

:10:32. > :10:35.get together with UK TIA and host a seminar in a constituency together

:10:35. > :10:39.with MPs from neighbouring constituencies and I think that is

:10:39. > :10:45.a great innovation where we can all work together whether it is

:10:45. > :10:50.government, Assembly Members, MPs and members of this house.

:10:50. > :10:57.Worrying news of Peacocks, especially for the constituents of

:10:57. > :11:01.the Cardiff West MP and represented by the Honourable Member for

:11:01. > :11:07.Pontypridd. There are implications across the country, including my

:11:07. > :11:12.own constituency, where many people work in retail sectors. Will she

:11:12. > :11:17.directly intervene to keep these 10,000 vital jobs, not least as the

:11:17. > :11:26.joblessness numbers are now rising inexorably in the UK. Implement his

:11:26. > :11:32.fact-finding and consumer confidence is plummeting.

:11:32. > :11:39.-- implement his flat lining. He knows that a direct intervention

:11:39. > :11:42.would not be appropriate until more details are out about this reported

:11:42. > :11:46.failure of Peacocks. Can I also say because there are so many jobs

:11:46. > :11:52.depending on this, if there are any redundancies or job losses that

:11:52. > :11:57.come out from this, JobCentre plus would absolutely be there to

:11:57. > :12:03.provide individual support, as they have done in other instances. Can I

:12:03. > :12:10.assure him that all those people be on this table whose jobs depend on

:12:10. > :12:15.Peacocks, all of us together will do what we can.

:12:15. > :12:18.To follow up further on the terrible situation facing Peacocks.

:12:18. > :12:22.Given that Assembly ministers have been slow off the mark to take

:12:22. > :12:26.action to help out with this situation facing the company, it

:12:26. > :12:31.will the Secretary of State insure that ministers on both ends of the

:12:31. > :12:34.M4 will work together to put pressure on the banks to make sure

:12:34. > :12:41.we say this important Welsh company?

:12:41. > :12:47.I think my Honourable Friend is absolutely right. This is a very

:12:47. > :12:51.important company and their Rahmani jobs, as I said before. I cannot

:12:51. > :12:55.say it too often that we will look at doing all we can but I cannot

:12:55. > :12:59.stand here and make any promises at this stage before we have any

:12:59. > :13:03.further particulars and we know the outcome of the current knitters

:13:03. > :13:07.emissions taking place between Peacocks and the banks. She should

:13:07. > :13:10.be comforted that the Welsh government, the business Secretary

:13:10. > :13:15.of State in our government and myself have all been in contact on

:13:15. > :13:22.this matter. Number three, Mr Speaker.

:13:22. > :13:25.Unemployment for disabled people. The Government is analysing the

:13:26. > :13:30.responses to the Sayce report and will consider the implications

:13:30. > :13:34.before publishing a statement on future policy.

:13:34. > :13:41.Wrexham Remploy has made good progress in the last four years on

:13:41. > :13:49.providing jobs for people in the Wrexham and North East Wales. The

:13:49. > :13:52.Sayce review and its contents threatens Remploy across Wales. The

:13:52. > :13:55.Minister for Disabled People is refusing to give any detail of the

:13:55. > :14:00.financial position of Wrexham Remploy until this review is

:14:00. > :14:06.completed. Will the Minister please work with me to obtain those

:14:06. > :14:12.in my constituency will know what their future is and the government

:14:12. > :14:16.isn't threatening them? The Honourable Gentleman will know

:14:16. > :14:20.that the Sayce review in fact did commit that existing employees in

:14:20. > :14:25.Remploy should be offered the opportunity for business support

:14:25. > :14:30.over a decent period of time to develop businesses. The Sayce

:14:30. > :14:34.report shows commitment to Remploy. I hear what the gentleman has to

:14:34. > :14:41.say about his communications with the Minister for Disabled People

:14:41. > :14:45.and if he would care to write to me, I would certainly pursue the matter.

:14:45. > :14:50.Find you, Mr Speaker. The way in which the government proposes to

:14:50. > :14:53.abolish disability living allowance will take �105 million away from

:14:53. > :15:00.disabled people in Wales, many they desperately need to help them cope

:15:00. > :15:04.with the extra cost of living with a disability. What meetings has the

:15:04. > :15:07.Minister or the Secretary of State had with disabled people in Wales

:15:07. > :15:17.on the Welfare Reform Bill and how do they intend to address people's

:15:17. > :15:19.

:15:19. > :15:25.The Government is committed to supporting disabled people, and

:15:25. > :15:28.this will be targeted at people who need most help. As she will know,

:15:28. > :15:33.the new independence payment will be an objective, fair and strongly

:15:33. > :15:36.evidence-based assessment, which will enable accurate assessments of

:15:36. > :15:46.individuals to determine who will visit -- benefit most from

:15:46. > :15:49.

:15:49. > :15:55.additional support. The office has regular discussions

:15:55. > :16:05.with the Transport Office regarding transport issues which affect we

:16:05. > :16:05.

:16:05. > :16:15.else. Will the great Western rail line -- the First Great Western

:16:15. > :16:17.

:16:17. > :16:26.wine improve prices of houses along the route? I am not in a position

:16:26. > :16:30.to comment on electrification of the writ. I would expect all

:16:30. > :16:36.householders to well can this. Ministers have been campaigning for

:16:36. > :16:43.a direct route into London, and a service from Aberystwyth to

:16:43. > :16:49.Shrewsbury. Can I urge the minister to help take action on both fronts?

:16:49. > :16:54.He will be assured that the Wales Office does what it can to improve

:16:55. > :17:01.transport links with in Wells's the stop we have a great -- with in

:17:01. > :17:10.Wales. We should take the opportunity to buy a home and in

:17:10. > :17:14.The issue of my right honourable friend's living arrangements and a

:17:14. > :17:21.matter for her, and that has been positively vindicated by the recent

:17:21. > :17:31.letter from the Prime Minister, to his Honourable Friend the Minister

:17:31. > :17:31.

:17:31. > :17:36.of Hemsworth. We're on the subject of the Great Western franchise!

:17:36. > :17:40.Some of the services run on the line that suffers from severe

:17:40. > :17:48.crowding. Will the Welsh Office be supporting the call for greater

:17:48. > :17:51.capacity on the cross-border route under the new franchise? He may be

:17:51. > :17:57.aware that extra capacity is being provided this year, with an extra

:17:57. > :18:07.48 carriages, which will add 4,500 extra seats at peak times between

:18:07. > :18:09.

:18:09. > :18:11.London and South West else. -- South Wales.

:18:11. > :18:20.There will statement confirmed that the Welsh government will receive

:18:20. > :18:26.an extra... This is an opportunity for the Welsh government to act in

:18:26. > :18:36.areas they are responsible for, to ensure Wales has a bright future.

:18:36. > :18:36.

:18:37. > :18:42.In... Schools and Wales will be better resourced, closing the

:18:42. > :18:47.education funding gap between England and Wales. I constituency

:18:47. > :18:52.will receive an extra �34,000 a year. Does the Secretary of State

:18:52. > :18:57.agree that this will help the children and young people of Wales,

:18:57. > :19:02.after the underfunding of education? I do agree because it

:19:02. > :19:08.was the extra funding that went from the Treasury to the Welsh

:19:08. > :19:13.government that enabled the leader of the Welsh Democrats in the

:19:13. > :19:20.assembly. -- in the assembly to negotiate extra funding into

:19:20. > :19:27.pupils' deprivation fund. That was following what we had introduced,

:19:27. > :19:31.and I think it was worth the -- was worth mentioning that the gap

:19:31. > :19:40.between spending in England and Wales between pupil has remained at

:19:40. > :19:50.�600. In the Autumn Statement was the capital investment programme,

:19:50. > :20:00.

:20:00. > :20:04.Overall it has been a good settlement for Wales, and the

:20:04. > :20:07.additional money announced in the autumn financial statement has made

:20:07. > :20:12.a great difference to the way in which the Welsh government is

:20:12. > :20:16.budgeting. I meet regularly with Welsh government ministers and my

:20:16. > :20:22.colleagues and the Treasury, and I will ensure, if he wishes to no

:20:22. > :20:29.further, that we talked together on further development.

:20:29. > :20:35.On funding, why does the new high- speed drill plan not follow the

:20:35. > :20:44.original route, through a Heathrow hub, galloping track -- travellers

:20:45. > :20:49.direct access to the airport? knows, that was the previous Labour

:20:49. > :20:57.Government's writ, but can I say to him that matters concerning high-

:20:57. > :21:02.speed rail, HS2 and Wales are handled by the Under-Secretary of

:21:02. > :21:07.State and Mike department. I will ask my colleague to write to him.

:21:07. > :21:11.know we're on the subject of funds -- now we're on the subject for

:21:11. > :21:17.funds to the National Assembly. find that astonishing. She has a

:21:17. > :21:27.duty, and the whole of the Wales Office has a duty, to advance the

:21:27. > :21:30.interest of Wales. were lost a great opportunity. Is it the truth

:21:31. > :21:35.that she has spent the last 18 months demanding expensive funding

:21:35. > :21:45.concessions for her Buckingham constituents, rather than advancing

:21:45. > :21:47.

:21:47. > :21:54.Wales'' interests? Is she not more concerned with building tunnels

:21:54. > :21:56.than worrying about helping Wales? I am surprised that the right

:21:56. > :22:00.honourable gentleman, because in all the years that he was the

:22:00. > :22:10.Secretary of State for Wales, he did not achieve the electrification

:22:10. > :22:14.of one inch. Whereas we have already announced the

:22:14. > :22:20.electrification of the line to Cardiff. It is still open to us one

:22:20. > :22:26.day, which has unfinished business, and as he well knows, we are

:22:26. > :22:36.working on the electrification of the Valley's line. -- it is still

:22:36. > :22:39.

:22:39. > :22:46.open to Swansea. There are too many private conversations taking place.

:22:46. > :22:52.The Secretary of State met the anti Human Traffic co-ordinator in Wales

:22:52. > :22:55.for December. This is a key priority for the Government, and we

:22:55. > :23:05.recognise the importance for tackling this. I thank the Minister

:23:05. > :23:09.

:23:09. > :23:14.for that, and the -- we have been warned about the internal problem.

:23:14. > :23:21.But the minister recommend to the Prime Minister that we have a

:23:21. > :23:30.similar tzar for the rest of the United Kingdom? The Government is

:23:30. > :23:34.supportive of the introduction of the co-ordinated in Wales. -- co-

:23:34. > :23:44.ordinator. I am sure he will make his own strong representation in

:23:44. > :23:50.

:23:50. > :23:53.Madrid are tough. Can you sure the house that

:23:53. > :24:00.staffing levels in terms of immigration and security will be

:24:00. > :24:05.maintained at a proper level? He makes an extremely important

:24:05. > :24:09.point, which I raised when I was on the other side of the house.

:24:09. > :24:16.Holyhead is an extremely important port, and the Wales office is in

:24:16. > :24:22.close co-ordination with the Home Office on that particular issue.

:24:22. > :24:26.I am delighted to say that despite having a small department of around

:24:26. > :24:32.60 staff, two apprentices were recruited to the Wales office last

:24:32. > :24:37.year. Both are doing very well. I know that their teams are already

:24:37. > :24:47.impressed with their professional attitudes and levels of competence,

:24:47. > :24:50.

:24:50. > :24:56.as a mine. -- am I. We should consider encouraging suppliers to

:24:56. > :25:02.the Welsh Office to higher apprentices? This is being done by

:25:02. > :25:06.the Department of work and pensions. I know of the great work that my

:25:06. > :25:10.honourable friend has been doing in this area, and although we are a

:25:10. > :25:16.small department, and we rely on the Ministry of Justice for many of

:25:16. > :25:20.her services, I will try to ensure what I can to make sure that the

:25:20. > :25:25.suppliers are encouraged to adopt similar practices. He might also be

:25:25. > :25:31.pleased to know that the Welsh government has recruited 24 new

:25:31. > :25:36.apprentices in 2010, and 66 in 2011, and I'll write to the Welsh

:25:36. > :25:40.government to ask if they can ensure their suppliers do the same.

:25:40. > :25:44.While admiring the work of my close comrade, the Member for Harlow,

:25:44. > :25:54.isn't there a danger that apprenticeships that are being

:25:54. > :25:54.

:25:54. > :26:03.relabel dashing labelled to work experience, without a job or skill

:26:03. > :26:07.at the end, is likely to increase their -- the disillusionment among

:26:07. > :26:12.young people? I would hope that he would be pleased to know that all

:26:12. > :26:18.the apprentices at the Welsh government undertake business

:26:18. > :26:24.administration N V Q's, and they are recruited through a fair and

:26:24. > :26:31.open process. I think that shows that the apprentice programmes are

:26:31. > :26:35.helping young people to take up jobs in the future. We are

:26:35. > :26:43.discussing matters of interest, especially to the people of Wales.

:26:43. > :26:47.Order. A forecast of public sector job

:26:47. > :26:52.losses was published in November by the Office of budget responsibility.

:26:52. > :27:00.This forecast was based upon UK white economic data, and no

:27:00. > :27:05.regional breakdown is available. is not just public sector jobs at

:27:05. > :27:12.risk in Wales. Does the Minister agree that the jobs in jeopardy in

:27:12. > :27:22.my constituency, at Peacocks, and at risk because of the economic

:27:22. > :27:23.

:27:23. > :27:27.decisions taken by the Government to stave off consumer demand?

:27:27. > :27:32.share the honourable gentleman's concern about their plight. As far

:27:32. > :27:36.as I can see, it is nothing a told to do with the inept -- economic

:27:36. > :27:40.policy of this government, but everything to do with the banking

:27:40. > :27:49.arrangements they have had. This is a matter that the Wales Office is

:27:50. > :27:55.concerned about, and will continue to express concern. They understand

:27:55. > :27:59.that the it -- the effect that non- payment of work undertaken can have

:27:59. > :28:06.one small businesses, and the Government is determined to tackle

:28:06. > :28:09.this standard of late payment which exist across all businesses.

:28:09. > :28:12.The Secretary of State will be aware of a number sub-contractors

:28:12. > :28:19.working on the Pembroke power station who have not been paid as a

:28:19. > :28:22.result of the dispute between the contractors. Could she help but as

:28:22. > :28:31.put pressure on the companies to resolve these differences and get

:28:31. > :28:39.the sub-contract has paid? -- sub- contractors. I have always

:28:39. > :28:42.supported the rights of workers over late payment. In 1994, I

:28:42. > :28:52.signed an early-day motion, so I have been consistent in my support

:28:52. > :28:54.

:28:54. > :28:58.for a long time. I am happy to meet with him, to see if I can tell.

:28:58. > :29:03.have regular discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on

:29:03. > :29:09.issues affecting Wales. minister will be aware that both

:29:09. > :29:16.the English region and Wales lose out because the allocation is not

:29:16. > :29:18.based on need, and in the case of Wales it is around �300 million per

:29:18. > :29:24.year. What indication can the Government give us that there will

:29:24. > :29:28.be reform? Governments of all political complexions for many

:29:28. > :29:32.years have recognised the need for some parts of the UK to be funded

:29:32. > :29:36.differently from others. There have been concerns expressed about the

:29:36. > :29:39.Barnett formula, but the priority is to reduce the deficit, and any

:29:40. > :29:47.changes to the system must take place once the public finances have

:29:47. > :29:51.been stabilised. The Welsh Assembly have funded the initial development

:29:51. > :29:55.of a motorsport, bent -- complex. Will he ensure the Government gives

:29:55. > :30:03.of refunding support possible to get this project off the drawing

:30:03. > :30:08.board and onto the track. I commend the honourable gentleman on the

:30:08. > :30:16.word he has put in, in respect of the project. This is a matter that

:30:16. > :30:20.the wills office is very interested Questions to the prime minister.

:30:20. > :30:24.This is about David Cameron's engagements.

:30:24. > :30:27.This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others

:30:27. > :30:31.and in addition to my duties in this house, I shall have further

:30:31. > :30:34.such meetings later today. The Prime Minister will be aware of

:30:34. > :30:38.the very strong uptake of academy status of schools in

:30:38. > :30:43.Gloucestershire but is he aware of the enormous differences in funding

:30:43. > :30:48.which puts those schools at the bottom of the league table in terms

:30:48. > :30:52.of the funding? I welcome the Government's move to a national

:30:52. > :30:54.formula but in the meantime, will he look at the very serious

:30:54. > :30:59.situation with regards to those schools in Gloucestershire?

:30:59. > :31:04.By Honourable Friend is quite right. We need to sort out this problem

:31:04. > :31:09.even before looking at a national funding formula. It is a former low

:31:09. > :31:15.we inherited I believe it is flawed and that is why we are or reforming

:31:15. > :31:19.it. I will happily discuss with him how we can deal with this problem.

:31:19. > :31:23.I think the growing evidence is that Academy Schools are not only

:31:23. > :31:26.good for the peoples that go to these schools but also by raising

:31:26. > :31:34.standards and aspirations in those areas, they are raising standards

:31:34. > :31:41.of all schools and the same time. Ed Miliband.

:31:41. > :31:46.Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told us that unemployment

:31:46. > :31:52.would fall in each year of this Parliament. Today, unemployment

:31:52. > :31:55.rose for the six months in a row. Does he think it has anything to do

:31:55. > :32:01.with his government? The government takes absolute

:32:01. > :32:04.responsibility for everything that happens in our economy. I take

:32:04. > :32:08.responsibility for that. Any increase in unemployment is

:32:08. > :32:11.disappointing and it is a tragedy for the person who becomes

:32:11. > :32:14.unemployed and can lead to difficulty for that family and that

:32:14. > :32:20.is what we are taking so much action to help people back into

:32:20. > :32:23.work. If you look at the figures today, it is noteworthy that while

:32:23. > :32:28.the increase in unemployment is hugely and welcome, there is still

:32:28. > :32:33.an increase in the number of people employed. Another 18,000 people in

:32:33. > :32:38.work. What that shows his we need more private sector employment, we

:32:38. > :32:41.need to move further and faster on that agenda. It is also worthy to

:32:42. > :32:45.note that there is a small decrease in long-term unemployment and I

:32:45. > :32:50.hope that shows schemes like the work programme we are introducing

:32:50. > :32:53.are beginning to have an effect. We need to go further and faster.

:32:53. > :32:58.There is not an ounce of complacency in this government and

:32:58. > :33:01.we will do everything we can to help people back to work.

:33:01. > :33:09.Doesn't the Prime Minister understand when he boasts about

:33:09. > :33:14.rising employment, it shows how out of touch he is? In some parts of

:33:14. > :33:20.London, 100 people are chasing three vacancies. That is the

:33:20. > :33:23.situation people are facing. Can he confirm that under his policies,

:33:23. > :33:31.far from things getting better over the coming year, he expects things

:33:31. > :33:35.to get worse and unemployment to rise to 2.8 million.

:33:35. > :33:37.Forecasts are no longer set out by the government, they are set out by

:33:38. > :33:46.the Independent office of budget responsibility and unlike in his

:33:46. > :33:49.day, these forecasts are not fixed and fiddles by ministers, they are

:33:49. > :33:53.set out. The Government should do everything it can to help people

:33:53. > :34:01.into work. That is what we have the work programme helping 3 million

:34:01. > :34:06.people, the youth contract which will get subsidised private sector

:34:06. > :34:11.jobs for young people, work experience for 250,000 young people,

:34:11. > :34:15.and half of those of benefits within two months. That is 20 times

:34:15. > :34:20.better value than the future jobs fund. There is no boasting about

:34:20. > :34:23.anything. What we have here is growth in the private sector,

:34:23. > :34:26.contraction in the public sector but we need to get the economy

:34:26. > :34:31.working and key to that is low interest rates his plans were put

:34:31. > :34:35.at risk. He doesn't seem to understand the

:34:35. > :34:41.reason the figures matter is that they show next year unemployment

:34:41. > :34:45.will get worse not better on his policies. Nothing he can say can

:34:45. > :34:49.deny that. That long list of policies, according to the

:34:49. > :34:56.independent study, will make no different. Let us talk about young

:34:56. > :35:00.people. In the last year, can he confirm we have 147,000 young

:35:00. > :35:06.people out of work for more than six months? That's double what it

:35:06. > :35:16.was a year ago. An increase of one engine 2%. Why has he allowed it to

:35:16. > :35:21.happen? -- an increase of 102%. Unemployment amongst young people

:35:21. > :35:26.is up by 7%. That is far too high. It is not a 40% increase we had

:35:26. > :35:30.under Labour but it is far too high. What we need to do is help those

:35:30. > :35:35.young people into work and that is what our programmes are doing. Let

:35:35. > :35:38.me make this point, there is a fundamental difference between the

:35:38. > :35:44.way this government measures youth unemployment and the way the last

:35:44. > :35:50.government did. This is important. His government counted young people

:35:50. > :35:54.who were on jobseeker's allowance but in any form of steam as not

:35:54. > :35:58.unemployed. This Government is saying, until you get a permanent

:35:58. > :36:00.job, we will measure you as unemployed. That is frank,

:36:00. > :36:08.straightforward and what we never got from them.

:36:08. > :36:18.Mr Speaker, it really is back to the 1980s. A Tory government, a

:36:18. > :36:25.Tory, a Tory government, a Tory government blaming unemployment on

:36:25. > :36:28.the figures. No wonder he has rehired Lord Young, Mr Speaker, the

:36:28. > :36:35.and employment secretary in the 1980s. On long-term youth

:36:35. > :36:39.unemployment, which has the scarring effect on our young people,

:36:39. > :36:44.desperate for work, out of work for more than six months, that has

:36:44. > :36:49.doubled, that has doubled in the last year. However he twists and

:36:49. > :36:53.turns about the figures, can he confirm it is up by 102% in the

:36:53. > :36:56.last year? I have explained the figures. If

:36:56. > :37:00.you look at the number of young people who have been out of work

:37:00. > :37:04.for longer than 12 months, that number has started to go down. That

:37:04. > :37:08.is not nearly enough. Far more needs to be done but that is what

:37:08. > :37:12.the work programme is all about. There is a context to all of this.

:37:12. > :37:17.If we want to get unemployment down, we need interest rates to be kept

:37:17. > :37:20.down. We've had a reminder in recent days what happens when you

:37:20. > :37:26.don't have a plan to get on top of your debts and get the economy

:37:26. > :37:29.working. That's what he doesn't understand. You have a government

:37:29. > :37:35.clear about his plans and an opposition that have absolutely no

:37:35. > :37:44.idea. Last year he marched against the cuts, now he tells us he

:37:44. > :37:50.accepts the cuts. -- now he tells us he excepts the cuts. He is so

:37:50. > :38:00.incompetent, he can't even do a U- turn properly.

:38:00. > :38:01.

:38:01. > :38:06.Mr Speaker,... The house must try to calm down and

:38:06. > :38:10.contain itself. Ed Miliband. Mr Speaker, I know he doesn't want

:38:10. > :38:14.to talk about the young people out of work in this country because he

:38:14. > :38:18.is embarrassed by his record on what's happening but he owes it to

:38:18. > :38:23.them to tell the facts as they are about what is happening to them. I

:38:23. > :38:25.come back to this point. The Prime Minister said in his answer that

:38:25. > :38:32.long-term unemployment amongst young people is going down. It is

:38:32. > :38:37.not, Mr Speaker, it is going up. He mentions the work programme. He

:38:37. > :38:39.introduced the work programme with great fanfare in June. What has

:38:39. > :38:44.happened to long-term youth unemployment since he introduced

:38:44. > :38:47.his work programme? Let me give him the figures. I will

:38:47. > :38:55.give him the figures exactly. There are far too many people long-term

:38:55. > :39:00.unemployed. There are 246,000 young people unemployed for over a year

:39:00. > :39:05.but that is down 11,000 on the last quarter. That is not enough. We

:39:05. > :39:11.want to do more but it is because we have the work programme, the

:39:11. > :39:15.youth contract, 400,000 apprenticeship schemes, 250,000

:39:15. > :39:18.people coming into work experience, we are making a difference. Why

:39:18. > :39:23.doesn't he come up with something in a constructive instead of

:39:23. > :39:33.knocking everybody down? I'll tell him what he should do, he

:39:33. > :39:39.

:39:39. > :39:43.should change course. Yeah, yeah. Because why he is unemployment

:39:43. > :39:49.rising? Why he has unemployment rising? Because he is cutting too

:39:49. > :39:54.far and too fast. It's his record, however much he twists and turns,

:39:54. > :39:58.it his record, that's why unemployment is going up. What we

:39:58. > :40:03.have Mark -- what we have, Mr Speaker, is women's unemployment

:40:03. > :40:08.the highest since the last Tory government, youth unemployment the

:40:08. > :40:11.highest since the last time there was a Tory government. Isn't the

:40:11. > :40:15.truth for the defining characteristic of this government

:40:15. > :40:20.is it stands the Fide and does nothing as thousands of people find

:40:20. > :40:25.themselves unemployed? To be fair to the Honourable

:40:25. > :40:32.Gentleman, he does actually changed course every day. He is an expert

:40:32. > :40:35.in changing course. Labour's Shadow Chancellor said two days ago, my

:40:35. > :40:42.starting point is we are going to have to keep all the cards. That's

:40:42. > :40:52.what he said. The deputy leader said yesterday, we are not

:40:52. > :40:55.excepting the cuts. He is flip flopping on a daily basis. The

:40:55. > :41:00.founder of a Labour's business forum said this, Labour offers

:41:00. > :41:06.nothing. The pro-business, pragmatic approach to 12 and

:41:06. > :41:16.Enterprise have gone. Rule instead there is a vision and leadership

:41:16. > :41:19.

:41:19. > :41:25.My Right Honourable Friend will be aware that I'd recently made a case

:41:25. > :41:29.for my late constituents, the armed forces minister, he will be aware

:41:29. > :41:36.of the fighting fit report written by my Honourable Friend the Member

:41:36. > :41:40.for South West Wiltshire. Due to the stigma often attached to mental

:41:40. > :41:46.illness, many soldiers wait years before seeking help. I hope my

:41:46. > :41:50.Honourable Friend can tell the House what will be done about this?

:41:50. > :41:54.I think my Honourable Friend is entirely right to raise this issue.

:41:54. > :41:58.The mental stars -- the mental scars of people who serve this

:41:58. > :42:04.country can be every bit as steep as the physical scars and it is not

:42:04. > :42:08.something we have always understood properly. That is why I think the

:42:08. > :42:12.report by my Honourable Friend is so important, as someone with real

:42:12. > :42:17.experience in this. We have accepted and implemented almost all

:42:17. > :42:27.of its recommendations, we have lodged a stress helpline and we are

:42:27. > :42:31.

:42:31. > :42:38.introducing advanced services. With a tragic accident involving the

:42:38. > :42:44.cruise ship Costa Concordia and liners the same size or bigger that

:42:44. > :42:48.will visit the Clyde in the coming months ahead, does the minister

:42:48. > :42:54.think it is the right decision to close the coastguard station? The

:42:54. > :42:58.case in Italy is clearly a tragic case and our heart goes out to

:42:58. > :43:02.people who have lost loved ones across the world. We need to wait

:43:02. > :43:06.and see what the exact cause of the accident was before we jump to

:43:07. > :43:10.conclusions about changes in regulation or other things. If

:43:10. > :43:18.There are changes that need to be made, including to the issue he

:43:18. > :43:24.raises, we will make them. The prime minister has very kindly

:43:24. > :43:29.undertaken to bring a comprehensive bill early in the next session.

:43:29. > :43:34.Will he end the uncertainty for water customers by publishing the

:43:34. > :43:38.draft Bill now so we can have proper parliamentary scrutiny?

:43:38. > :43:45.I can say to my Honourable Friend that we will be publishing a draft

:43:45. > :43:48.water bill for the coming months. As she knows, there are many

:43:49. > :43:53.important parts to this Bill. One part that stand out is the promise

:43:53. > :43:58.we've made and funding supplied to help cut water bills in the south-

:43:58. > :44:04.west of the country from 20th April 13. This addresses a historic and

:44:04. > :44:14.fairness. People have felt they have paid unfair charges to provide

:44:14. > :44:20.

:44:20. > :44:22.clean beaches. In America, directors from the

:44:22. > :44:27.baled out companies have been taken to court for gross mismanagement.

:44:27. > :44:31.They say they can't bring action against the Royal Bank of Scotland.

:44:31. > :44:36.Will the Prime Minister consider introducing a legal sanction of

:44:36. > :44:40.strict liability in the Financial Services Bill so that those

:44:40. > :44:46.responsible for the banking crisis will be taken to task because after

:44:46. > :44:49.all, we are already in this together.

:44:49. > :44:53.The Gentleman makes an important point. This gives us an important

:44:53. > :44:57.opportunity to look at the best of the world, CU has tougher penalties

:44:57. > :45:03.and see if we can introduce them to our system. That is what will be

:45:03. > :45:12.introducing this with a major overhaul in dealing with a rickety

:45:12. > :45:16.I knew ago, the Prime Minister told me that the reason for the new

:45:16. > :45:24.health bill was because simply the country has European levels of

:45:24. > :45:33.health spending, but does not have European levels of success. now we

:45:33. > :45:39.know that is not the case, will he shelf the disruptive Belgium -- the

:45:40. > :45:45.destructive bill? I have great respect for him, but I do not agree

:45:45. > :45:48.on this. With the Health Bill, an exercise was taken, in which the

:45:48. > :45:54.Deputy Prime Minister and I played a larger role. We listened to

:45:54. > :45:57.health professionals, doctors, to understand what they most wanted to

:45:57. > :46:05.see in the NHS reform bill, and that is what we are delivering. He

:46:05. > :46:09.says it is not the case that we have outcomes batter not as good as

:46:09. > :46:15.to Europe, and in some cases we could be doing a lot better. But to

:46:16. > :46:19.argue that the NHS needs money and not reform is not correct.

:46:19. > :46:25.In the north-east, unemployment among women is rising at twice the

:46:25. > :46:33.rate of men. Where does the Prime Minister think the women's places?

:46:33. > :46:37.In the home, the workplace for the JobCentre? -- or the JobCentre?

:46:37. > :46:42.want to see more women in the workplace. There is a disappointing

:46:42. > :46:46.increase in unemployment amongst women, but since the election there

:46:46. > :46:55.are 59,000 more women in work today, than there were at the time of the

:46:55. > :46:59.last election. I am not satisfied with that, so we have helped with

:46:59. > :47:05.child care, we're introducing universal credit, support for all

:47:05. > :47:15.women who work, not just those who work more than 16 hours, and

:47:15. > :47:19.

:47:19. > :47:22.lifting the threshold on income tax. I met a couple in Redditch who were

:47:22. > :47:26.appalled that a family in their area were getting more and benefits

:47:26. > :47:32.than they earned working full-time. Does he think that is right, or

:47:32. > :47:36.fair? She makes an important point. I think we owe it to people who

:47:36. > :47:41.work hard, who do the right thing and pay their taxes, to make sure

:47:42. > :47:48.there are some limits on welfare. What we are seeing with the benefit

:47:48. > :47:53.cap is that a family can get up to �26,000 in benefit. You would have

:47:53. > :48:00.to earn �35,000 to achieve that standard of living. That is why we

:48:00. > :48:06.are introducing a benefit cap. Some of the most vulnerable people

:48:06. > :48:11.in society will undoubtedly be financially penalised as a result

:48:11. > :48:16.of the measures going through the Lords. Is it any wonder that people

:48:16. > :48:20.say it is the same old Tories, and they are a nasty party? I do not

:48:20. > :48:25.accept what he is saying. The point of Employment and Support Allowance

:48:25. > :48:29.is that there are two groups. There are those who cannot work, who need

:48:29. > :48:34.help, and many people will go straight into that group, and will

:48:34. > :48:37.receive the benefit for as long as they needed. If you look at what we

:48:38. > :48:42.have said, and that report by Professor Harrington, there will be

:48:42. > :48:45.more cancer sufferers getting benefits, and fewer people facing

:48:45. > :48:52.the face-to-face interview. He should look at the evidence before

:48:52. > :48:56.asking the question. I was shocked to discover that

:48:56. > :49:06.mainstream terrestrial television carries adverts for online bingo at

:49:06. > :49:10.

:49:10. > :49:15.5pm, 31 hours is dedicated to live casino and gaming, which is classed

:49:15. > :49:19.as shopping. At a time where there is trillions of pounds worth of

:49:19. > :49:23.debt in the country, we should be encouraging people to be moderate

:49:23. > :49:25.in their expectations and behaviour. Will the Prime Minister please

:49:25. > :49:35.protect consumers and the vulnerable from this kind of

:49:35. > :49:37.

:49:37. > :49:39.activity, by asking for a review. Order! The question was too long.

:49:39. > :49:42.The honourable lady raises an important issue about gambling

:49:42. > :49:48.advertisements on television. I am in favour of deregulation and

:49:48. > :49:57.trying to allow businesses to get on and succeed. Gambling programmes

:49:57. > :49:59.and advertising are strictly regulated by Ofcom and the

:49:59. > :50:04.Advertising Standards Authority, but what I would say to the

:50:04. > :50:12.honourable lady is it is not just a question of regulation, it is a

:50:12. > :50:15.question of responsibility of the advertisers themselves. I think the

:50:15. > :50:21.companies have got to ask themselves whether they are

:50:21. > :50:25.behaving responsibly. On the subject of gambling, in

:50:25. > :50:28.Hackney we have 90 bookmakers, three times the national average.

:50:28. > :50:38.Will the Prime Minister listen to the bait that took place yesterday,

:50:38. > :50:38.

:50:38. > :50:44.and take action this Friday, and instruct his ministers to push

:50:44. > :50:48.forward with this? I will look at the debate, and I am all for it. I

:50:48. > :50:52.would like the local authorities to have greater powers in this. I will

:50:52. > :50:59.look at her suggestions the stock will the Prime Minister agree with

:50:59. > :51:04.me that in this, the 30th here of the Falklands war, the actions of

:51:04. > :51:11.the Argentine government are deplorable? Will he remained

:51:11. > :51:15.Argentina that they lost the Falklands war, and it has up to the

:51:15. > :51:19.islanders to determine their own future? It is important that we

:51:19. > :51:22.commemorate the Falklands war of this year, the 30th anniversary,

:51:22. > :51:26.and we remember all of those who served and fought so hard, and

:51:26. > :51:30.those who gave their lives and have not come home. We should remember

:51:30. > :51:34.all of these people this year. The vital point is we are clear that

:51:34. > :51:40.the future of the Falklands Island is a matter for the people

:51:40. > :51:44.themselves. As long as they want to be part of the United Kingdom, they

:51:44. > :51:48.should be able to do so. I am determined we should make sure the

:51:48. > :51:52.defences are in order, which is why the National Security Council

:51:52. > :52:02.discussed it yesterday, but the key point is that we support the

:52:02. > :52:02.

:52:02. > :52:11.Falkland Islanders rates. Those people want to remain British, and

:52:11. > :52:18.the Argentinians want them to do something else.

:52:18. > :52:25.Mr Speaker, we have seen a rise in unemployment today, to over 3,000

:52:25. > :52:28.in my constituency. This is a 16% increase. -- in the past year. When

:52:29. > :52:36.does the Prime Minister expect unemployment to start falling?

:52:36. > :52:42.forecasts have been set out by the of Office for Budget Responsibility.

:52:42. > :52:52.They expected to be a law that the end of this Parliament, and

:52:52. > :52:53.

:52:53. > :52:57.employment to be higher. -- they We're keeping interest rates low,

:52:57. > :53:07.so the economy can grow, and we do not fall into the mistakes that

:53:07. > :53:07.

:53:07. > :53:12.others in Europe have fallen into. Closed questions. The honourable

:53:12. > :53:16.lady raises an important issue regarding the working-time

:53:16. > :53:24.directive and its effect on the NHS. No one wants to go back to the time

:53:24. > :53:30.when junior doctors were working 18 or 19 -- 80 or 90 hours a week. But

:53:30. > :53:34.we can see that the Working Time Directive has had an adverse effect

:53:34. > :53:41.on the NHS, and that is why the government is discussing this issue

:53:41. > :53:45.to make sure we have flexibility in this area. Does he share widespread

:53:45. > :53:49.concerns coming largely from the medical profession themselves, but

:53:49. > :53:53.while we wait for lengthy processes to consider the directive across

:53:53. > :53:59.Europe, it has not even been decided what it is there going to

:53:59. > :54:04.be discussing, but we're seeing a critical undermining of junior

:54:04. > :54:11.doctors. We're seeing an eroding of the future of the NHS, and we're

:54:11. > :54:15.putting patient care and lives at risk. I think she is right. This

:54:15. > :54:25.has nothing to do with the single market. This has to do with how we

:54:25. > :54:29.run the health service, and in particular training programmes for

:54:29. > :54:34.junior doctors. What we can do to sort this out is that the health

:54:34. > :54:37.and business secretaries are discussing the directive to give

:54:37. > :54:44.the NHS they help it needs to deliver the best, safest service to

:54:44. > :54:50.patients. Is the Prime Minister aware that

:54:51. > :54:58.every single medical problem at a hospital in my constituency is

:54:58. > :55:01.related to weekend working by exhausted junior doctors, far from

:55:01. > :55:10.this directive being a problem, it is a solution to the fact that we

:55:10. > :55:13.have had far too many exhausted doctors in charge of patients.

:55:13. > :55:19.cannot believe that every problem in his hospital is down to that

:55:19. > :55:24.problem, but I can say that the local hospital has serves my

:55:24. > :55:26.constituents was threatened with massive downgrading, partly because

:55:26. > :55:30.of the Working Time Directive because they could not supply the

:55:30. > :55:34.training modules for junior doctors. This seemed a classic example of

:55:34. > :55:43.the card being put in front of the horse. We ought to be determining

:55:43. > :55:53.what hospitals we want, but this time directive was getting in the

:55:53. > :55:55.

:55:55. > :55:59.way for -- getting in the way. Does the Prime Minister agree that

:55:59. > :56:04.opportunities are helped in Asia, regarding the talks between the UK

:56:04. > :56:07.and Hong Kong, showing that this country is open for business?

:56:07. > :56:13.makes a vitally important point, clearly the markets in Europe are

:56:13. > :56:17.going to be difficult. 50% of what we export goes to the EU, and we

:56:17. > :56:21.see a freezing effect across the European Union. But the rest of the

:56:21. > :56:26.economy is growing, and we need to get out there and sell to these

:56:26. > :56:30.markets. Exports to China were up by 20% last year. The arrangements

:56:30. > :56:33.that the Chancellor has come to, which is going to make London one

:56:33. > :56:38.of the great trading centres, is one important breakthrough, but we

:56:39. > :56:45.need many more. Could the Prime Minister clarify what the coalition

:56:45. > :56:47.government's position is on inheritance-tax? Like its --

:56:47. > :56:50.constituency received correspondence from the junior

:56:50. > :56:53.party in the coalition government stating, if the Tories were

:56:53. > :56:57.governing alone, they would be cutting inheritance tax for

:56:57. > :57:07.millionaires, and they would pay for it by reducing public spending

:57:07. > :57:08.

:57:09. > :57:14.even more. Is this true? It is covered in the coalition agreement.

:57:14. > :57:17.Last week on the Syrian border, I met Syrian army deserters who had

:57:17. > :57:22.refused to tell their fellow- citizens and a small child winded

:57:22. > :57:27.by the regime. If things are to get better, the world must stop selling

:57:27. > :57:34.arms to Syria. What evidence does the Prime Minister have of

:57:34. > :57:42.countries selling arms to them? makes an extremely. Important point.

:57:42. > :57:46.We need to tighten the sanctions. In terms of who is helping the

:57:46. > :57:51.Syrian government to oppress their people, there is growing evidence

:57:51. > :57:59.that Iran is helping them, and there have been intersections of

:57:59. > :58:04.shipments from Turkey, which are interesting in this regard. But

:58:04. > :58:14.organisations are standing up against this Rector tyrant whose

:58:14. > :58:16.

:58:16. > :58:20.killing his own people for. -- wretched tired and.

:58:20. > :58:24.A warning has been made that a similar crisis as in the Horn of

:58:24. > :58:30.Africa is now threatening western Africa. What will the Government do

:58:30. > :58:33.to try to help prevent this? raises an important point. I will

:58:34. > :58:38.study the report carefully. My understanding is the British effort

:58:38. > :58:42.was swifter in getting aid into the Horn of Africa, leading the pack,

:58:42. > :58:46.in terms of the extent of the response, the money committed, and

:58:46. > :58:52.also the speed at which it went in. Clearly the Horn of Africa and is a

:58:52. > :58:56.difficult place to deliberate to, not least because of the control --

:58:56. > :59:04.place to deliver to, not least because of the control that is over

:59:04. > :59:09.Somalia, but I will be read the report carefully. In it over row

:59:09. > :59:13.raised the case of my constituent, 14-year-old, who was killed outside

:59:13. > :59:21.her home by a driver under the influence of drugs. Could the Prime

:59:21. > :59:25.Minister meets her family to discuss a change to the long, --

:59:25. > :59:32.the Prime Minister met her family to discuss a change to the long,

:59:32. > :59:41.can you beat us? It is issue we take the issue of drug driving very

:59:41. > :59:45.seriously. Equipment to test for this will be available in police

:59:45. > :59:49.stations very short-lived. We are examining this closely in

:59:49. > :59:51.government, and we need to look at whether there would be an

:59:51. > :59:56.opportunity in the second legislative session to take forward

:59:56. > :59:59.the measures I know he will be campaigning for.

:59:59. > :00:05.Does the Prime Minister share my concern that yesterday's ruling by

:00:06. > :00:15.the European Court of Human Rights at Aber could have a can of beer a

:00:16. > :00:16.

:00:17. > :00:20.-- deported? How could the court operates more proportionately, so

:00:20. > :00:25.that rights are respected, but the safety of the public is always

:00:25. > :00:29.I agree wholeheartedly with what the Right Honourable Gentleman has

:00:29. > :00:35.said. I think this judgement is difficult to understand, frankly,

:00:35. > :00:38.because huge efforts have been going to buy the British government

:00:38. > :00:42.to have a deportation with assurances agreement with Jordan to

:00:42. > :00:45.make sure people wouldn't be mistreated. In this case, the

:00:45. > :00:49.European Court of Human Rights has found he wasn't going to be

:00:49. > :00:53.tortured but they were worried about the process of the court case

:00:53. > :00:56.in Jordan. It's immensely frustrating. I think a country like

:00:56. > :01:04.Britain, which has a long tradition of human rights, should be able to

:01:04. > :01:08.deport people who mean best harm. I'm going to Strasbourg next week

:01:08. > :01:12.to make the argument that as we are chairing the Council of Europe,

:01:12. > :01:22.this is a good time to actually make reforms to the European Court

:01:22. > :01:23.

:01:23. > :01:28.of Human Rights and make sure it acts in a proportion that way.

:01:28. > :01:32.A young boy he was kidnapped from his home in Canning chase and taken

:01:32. > :01:36.to Thailand by his mother. Six months later, his father tracked

:01:36. > :01:41.him down in a remote village, finding his son couldn't speak, his

:01:41. > :01:46.teeth were broken and he was bruised. He said had he not got him

:01:46. > :01:51.then, he would have been sold. Each year in the UK over 500 children

:01:51. > :01:55.are kidnapped in similar circumstances. Will the Prime

:01:55. > :01:59.Minister meet with me and the boy's father, who has set up a charity

:01:59. > :02:03.and is in the gallery today, to discuss what the government can do

:02:03. > :02:07.to help parents of abducted children?

:02:07. > :02:11.You are right to raise this case. It is a simply appalling case and

:02:11. > :02:16.any parent can't help but be chilled to the bone about what

:02:16. > :02:20.happened to this poor boy. I think it's vital that we put in place the

:02:20. > :02:23.best possible arrangements as he knows that the child exploitation

:02:24. > :02:28.and Online Protection system will be put into the National crime

:02:28. > :02:32.agency. I hope will be able to legislate for the crime agency and

:02:32. > :02:36.make sure it is properly resourced Pickles as he says, it's vitally

:02:36. > :02:45.important that we get on top of these acts right away. The early

:02:45. > :02:49.effort is vital achieve -- in saving these children.

:02:49. > :02:56.When do the prime minister expect to be cross examined by the club is

:02:56. > :03:01.an inquiry? Doesn't he agree that he British people deserve an answer

:03:01. > :03:06.as to why he appointed one of Murdoch's top lieutenants, Andy

:03:06. > :03:10.Coulson, to the heart of the British government?

:03:10. > :03:14.I will be delighted to appear at the Levinsen inquiry whenever I am

:03:14. > :03:18.invited and I'm sure other politicians will have the same view

:03:18. > :03:22.and I would answer all the questions when that happens. It's

:03:22. > :03:26.good to see the Honourable Gentleman on good form. I will tell

:03:26. > :03:31.my children, no need to come to the National Museum to see a dinosaur,

:03:31. > :03:35.come to the House of Commons at 12:30pm.

:03:35. > :03:40.And on that bombshell, the speaker brings an end to Question Time,

:03:40. > :03:45.dominated, really, by jobs. The latest unemployment figures and the

:03:45. > :03:49.threat to jobs at Peacocks in South Wales. Plenty to talk about in

:03:49. > :03:53.Cardiff. A we will deal with what we have

:03:53. > :04:00.just seen in chronological order. Going back to Welsh questions with

:04:00. > :04:04.our guests, Nick Ramsay and Mark Drakeford. Let's go back an hour.

:04:04. > :04:12.If we can remember that far back. David raised some of the points we

:04:12. > :04:16.heard about to ring Channel:'s questions. It's no surprise that --

:04:17. > :04:21.we heard during Cheryl Gillan's questions. It's no surprise that

:04:21. > :04:26.high-speed rail came up. She seemed a glum figure today?

:04:26. > :04:31.I usually tell people to give her a break but it was no surprise it

:04:31. > :04:36.came up. The Labour Party have very Pickles to say on a lot of issues.

:04:36. > :04:40.If you look at what Cheryl Gillan has delivered, the referendum on

:04:40. > :04:44.powers for the Assembly, the electrification to Cardiff, I think

:04:44. > :04:47.there is a lot of positive things that Cheryl Gillan has done and I'm

:04:47. > :04:52.not surprised Peter Hain and others don't want to talk about it.

:04:52. > :04:57.We will go on to talk about Peacocks but can we get a response?

:04:57. > :05:00.I think she did look down in the mouth and a bit thin skinned when

:05:00. > :05:06.some of these points were being made. The business about her

:05:06. > :05:10.selling her house is neither here nor there. The real important issue

:05:10. > :05:14.is the fact that here is a government prepared to commit

:05:14. > :05:19.billions of pounds to dig a tunnel underneath her constituency in

:05:19. > :05:24.order to deal with problems. The Transport Secretary says it

:05:24. > :05:30.will save money overall. You know, I haven't found anyone

:05:30. > :05:33.else who can read that announcement in that way. At the same time, they

:05:33. > :05:38.are not willing to commit the millions of pounds we need to take

:05:38. > :05:40.the line to Swansea. I was interested and pleased to see the

:05:40. > :05:46.Secretary of State said that there wasn't a closed question and she

:05:46. > :05:50.would come back to it. She also kept up in the er the

:05:50. > :05:56.electrification of the valleys line, which is vitally important to us

:05:56. > :05:59.here in Wales. Underneath the froth, I think there were some important

:05:59. > :06:09.things being said. Let's deal with the Peacocks

:06:09. > :06:10.

:06:10. > :06:14.announcement. There was a question related to the conduct of RBS, who

:06:14. > :06:20.basically have the power over the future of the store. A suggestion

:06:20. > :06:26.came from Jennie will it yesterday that made the the Bank should show

:06:26. > :06:31.compassion since it is a publicly owned bank, to Peacocks.

:06:31. > :06:35.We are on the Royal Bank of Scotland and jobs in Peacocks are

:06:35. > :06:39.really important in Wales. It's not a trivial point being made. There

:06:39. > :06:45.is a public interest being made and this is a publicly owned bank. In

:06:45. > :06:49.the background there is a bigger picture. Peacock's trades at a

:06:49. > :06:53.profit every week, every month. What it can't do is service the

:06:53. > :06:57.debt saddled round its neck for the equity by out that went on a few

:06:57. > :07:02.years ago. In that sense it is a classic story of what is happening

:07:02. > :07:06.in the British economy over the last five years. I thought here in

:07:06. > :07:14.the chamber yesterday, the economy must -- economy minister, Edwina

:07:14. > :07:19.Hart, answered questions for a carefully.. She was clearly very

:07:19. > :07:25.careful not to say anything that might prejudice a better outcome

:07:25. > :07:29.for Peacocks than might otherwise be the case. We are not at the end

:07:30. > :07:35.of the story yet. There were some important things said today but I

:07:35. > :07:38.think we should let this carry on in the hope that we will yet have a

:07:38. > :07:42.conclusion that protects the majority of the interests of people

:07:42. > :07:47.that work at the company. We will get nicked's years before

:07:47. > :07:51.we carry on. Where do you stand on the role of the bank in this case?

:07:51. > :07:56.I heard somebody on the radio yesterday, a banker, saying that a

:07:56. > :08:00.bank should behave like a bank, deal on a commercial basis and no

:08:00. > :08:06.other basis. I agree with what Marx said. We are

:08:06. > :08:10.not dealing with banks in the normal sense. There is a public

:08:10. > :08:16.interest within RBS and we need, at the moment, companies to get the

:08:16. > :08:19.support they need. We had an urgent question on Peacocks and a quarter

:08:19. > :08:25.of Assembly Members spoke on that question, showing the level of

:08:25. > :08:28.concern. I really hope the minister is talking to cap its letter

:08:28. > :08:36.peacocks, I think she is, and talking to the Westminster

:08:36. > :08:40.government. -- talking to Peacocks. If banks were treated as commercial

:08:40. > :08:45.organisations, RBS wouldn't be a bank today. It would have gone to

:08:45. > :08:50.the wall. Let's go to unemployment, I think

:08:50. > :08:53.you have a point to make. We hear from the Government that the vision

:08:53. > :08:58.went reducing the number of people employed in the public sector, the

:08:58. > :09:04.private sector would take up the slack. You were just mentioning

:09:04. > :09:13.something of a. The proposition that the public

:09:13. > :09:19.sector jobs would be picked up by private sector employment. It is

:09:19. > :09:24.certainly not working. If you look at the last quarter, there were

:09:24. > :09:32.160,000 jobs lost in the public sector and 8,000 jobs created in

:09:32. > :09:37.the private sector. That is hardly a commensurate number. The point I

:09:37. > :09:40.was making was to do with RBS and Lloyds Bank. The Office for

:09:41. > :09:46.National Statistics now counts those organisations as public

:09:47. > :09:51.sector organisations. When I am giving those figures, 160,000

:09:51. > :09:57.public sector jobs lost and 8,000 private sector jobs created, as

:09:57. > :10:00.they counted those banks as private sector, there wouldn't have been a

:10:00. > :10:04.single job created in the home of the private sector across the whole

:10:04. > :10:07.of the United Kingdom across the whole of the last quarter. The idea

:10:07. > :10:13.this government has got it right by saying private sector growth will

:10:13. > :10:18.take up the slack in the economy, it simply doesn't stack up.

:10:18. > :10:22.I thought we were getting on too well there. I always have a rule in

:10:22. > :10:28.my speeches and a don't mention more than two statistics. You can

:10:28. > :10:32.use them to say whatever you want but I think the issue here is about

:10:32. > :10:37.growth of the private sector in Wales. I understand what was just

:10:37. > :10:41.said that there is a concern that if you blink -- lose public jobs,

:10:41. > :10:43.you can lose the balance. But the government said the private

:10:43. > :10:49.sector would take up the slack. Do you think it is?

:10:49. > :10:52.I don't think it will happen very quickly but I think the UK

:10:52. > :10:58.government got it right in trying to put the right mechanisms in

:10:58. > :11:01.place to grow the private sector. We will be back with you before we

:11:01. > :11:06.head off for lunch but coming up on the programme we will hear from

:11:06. > :11:09.Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland's political editor, on the

:11:09. > :11:15.independence referendum. First let's have a look at what is

:11:15. > :11:20.going on in Cardiff Bay today. Hello. Another interesting

:11:20. > :11:24.afternoon in the Senedd. We have questions as usual on a Wednesday

:11:24. > :11:30.to ministers. This week it is the finance minister, Jane Hutt, and

:11:30. > :11:33.Edwina Hart. AMs will raise the issue of Peacocks, as they did

:11:33. > :11:38.earlier today. Find out what the latest is from the business

:11:38. > :11:41.minister. Then we move on to the Conservatives, using their big

:11:41. > :11:47.debate to talk about how we treat our youngest and most vulnerable

:11:47. > :11:53.children. There is a programme designed for zero-three-year-old in

:11:53. > :11:57.our most disadvantaged communities. Their valuation of that programme

:11:57. > :12:01.showed it was having most difficulty in helping the families

:12:01. > :12:05.it was intended to help in those circumstances. That should be

:12:05. > :12:09.interesting. They also want to follow up on the foundation days.

:12:09. > :12:15.People might remember that, learning through play at schools.

:12:15. > :12:20.They are worried the training to practitioners of the addition phase

:12:20. > :12:25.was inconsistent. Pyecombe we want to talk about local health boards.

:12:25. > :12:29.-- Plaid Cymru. They don't think they are accountable or transparent

:12:29. > :12:37.enough. The Lib Dems want to talking their debate about

:12:37. > :12:41.broadband. They want to highlight the fact the Chancellor is giving

:12:41. > :12:44.almost �57 million to roll-out the next generation in Wales. They want

:12:44. > :12:49.to raise the issue of what the Welsh government is doing. They

:12:49. > :12:56.want to see them doing more to tackle the areas where broadband is

:12:56. > :13:03.not available. That can be damaging if you have a business in rural

:13:03. > :13:07.Wales. This afternoon, Darren Millar, Clwyd West am, is reminding

:13:07. > :13:10.us that older people have rights as well. And sure that would go down

:13:10. > :13:14.well with the older people in his constituency.

:13:14. > :13:21.I thought you are going to say that it would go down well with our

:13:21. > :13:25.guests! Thank you, we will see you later.

:13:25. > :13:28.With over 90 recommendations, the publication of Plaid Cymru's review

:13:28. > :13:35.into its poor performance in last year's Assembly election will be

:13:35. > :13:38.required reading for am as. The document also said the party should

:13:38. > :13:43.consider adopting the Welsh National Party of its English name.

:13:43. > :13:48.We will be hearing from one of its authors. The party is looking for a

:13:48. > :13:54.new leader. We heard from Adam Price, who is backing Leanne Wood.

:13:54. > :13:59.This week a reporter has been speaking to of an MP, Howell

:13:59. > :14:05.Williams. Who will be played Cymru's next

:14:05. > :14:12.leader? Who will follow Ieuan Wyn Jones? Of one MP has made his

:14:12. > :14:19.choice -- of one MP. Who are you backing?

:14:19. > :14:22.I am backing Elin Jones. For lots of reasons. I think she has the

:14:22. > :14:26.presence as being an ex-minister and I think she is a brave

:14:26. > :14:32.politician. She is prepared to nail her colours to the mast and pursue

:14:32. > :14:36.a policy, as we saw when she was Minister of Agriculture. I also

:14:36. > :14:40.think she has the vision to be a leader and also a potential First

:14:40. > :14:45.Minister, if we get into government, as we sincerely hope to do some

:14:45. > :14:51.time in the next few years. Why have you chosen Elin Jones over

:14:51. > :14:54.any of the other candidates? There are four candidates in total. Why

:14:54. > :14:59.not Simon Thomas, Dafydd Ellis- Thomas or Leanne Wood?

:14:59. > :15:03.I am so glad we have such a calibre of candidates. Any of those could

:15:03. > :15:09.be a leader of the party and they all bring different things to the

:15:09. > :15:14.table. Looking across them, I think Elin Jones combines political

:15:14. > :15:24.courage and vision with her experience and enthusiasm for the

:15:24. > :15:31.job. I think she is the best of the You know Elin Jones pretty well. If

:15:31. > :15:37.you were going to sell her to potential voters, what would you

:15:37. > :15:41.say about her? She is someone who has been committed to the cause of

:15:41. > :15:48.the party and constituency for many years. I have known her since the

:15:48. > :15:56.mid- 90s. She has an expertise in economic matters. She has expertise

:15:56. > :15:59.on having been a former minister. That is very good. People cannot

:15:59. > :16:05.acquire that expertise without having something that Elin Jones

:16:05. > :16:10.has. She has a vision for the party and country. She has determination

:16:10. > :16:14.to press the cause. I would be happy on Monday morning to see her

:16:15. > :16:18.leading the party. I would be confident that she would be leading

:16:18. > :16:23.the party and possibly leading Wales, if we get in the position

:16:23. > :16:30.where she would be First Minister. What about her as a person? How

:16:30. > :16:33.would she won the hearts of Welsh voters? It is fair to say that she

:16:33. > :16:41.is not a huge personality among large groups of people, but she is

:16:41. > :16:47.a very kind, warm and funny person when you know her personally. She

:16:47. > :16:52.has a very attractive personality. Her workmates recommend her vision,

:16:52. > :16:56.as I said, her bravery, and it is those sort of qualities that made

:16:56. > :17:01.me think that Elin Jones would be the person to lead the party and

:17:01. > :17:07.potentially to be the first minister of.

:17:07. > :17:10.Simon Thomas and Dafydd Elis-Thomas are also standing for the leader of

:17:10. > :17:14.the Plaid Cymru party. We will hear from their supporters and the

:17:14. > :17:24.coming weeks. At the moment we will go over to the boil.

:17:24. > :17:32.

:17:32. > :17:36.I am joined by Jocelyn Davies, the You have published a report on the

:17:36. > :17:44.party, and the issue is that you want to change your name. We had

:17:44. > :17:47.disappointing results in the last assembly election. They were

:17:47. > :17:54.looking at her vision, communication, membership,

:17:54. > :17:56.structure, a whole range of things. There was also a recommendation

:17:56. > :18:03.that the National Executive should think about whether the party

:18:03. > :18:06.should think about having another name. At the moment we are

:18:06. > :18:10.questioning whether we should have a bilingual name, and there

:18:10. > :18:15.suggestions are being floated around that we have a Welsh

:18:15. > :18:18.National Party, as there is an English equivalent. We are handing

:18:18. > :18:22.back to the national executive to think about it. There will be a lot

:18:22. > :18:28.of debate about the name change, but there is a lot of stuff on the

:18:28. > :18:32.report. There are 95 recommendation is. It is only the second part of

:18:32. > :18:39.the name that will change, isn't it? That is to try to reach out to

:18:39. > :18:43.non-speaking Welsh voters. I wonder why they would be more likely to go

:18:43. > :18:48.with the Welsh National Party, than Plaid Cymru the party of where else.

:18:48. > :18:58.It is a bit of a mouthful. It was the official name, but that has

:18:58. > :19:00.

:19:00. > :19:05.been shortened to Plaid Cymru Bridge. -- Plaid Cymru. There is a

:19:05. > :19:08.stereo type and a misconception that is held about Plaid Cymru

:19:08. > :19:12.members that not only are we the party that stands up for the

:19:12. > :19:17.language and champions the language, that we and our party for Welsh

:19:17. > :19:21.speakers. I am not a Welsh speaker, so I know it is not true. Every

:19:21. > :19:26.Plaid Cymru member will say that a voter will say to them, I cannot

:19:26. > :19:33.vote for you because I speak what - - I do not speak Welsh. The name is

:19:33. > :19:38.only one tiny bit of that. What else are you going to do to engage

:19:38. > :19:44.people who have not traditionally voted for you? Everyone will know

:19:44. > :19:49.that our long-term aim for Wales is to have an independent country.

:19:49. > :19:53.That is a very topical discussion, and the debate is moving on fast.

:19:53. > :19:59.Things have changed since we have written the report, and it is

:19:59. > :20:03.changing by the day. We're saying that what we need to do is better

:20:03. > :20:06.articulate the message and explain to people what it all means, and

:20:06. > :20:09.what it would mean to them, in terms of things that affect them of

:20:09. > :20:14.the day, so not just a constitutional issue, but things

:20:14. > :20:20.that affect them, such as health, education and the economy. We're

:20:20. > :20:24.saying we cannot now seriously say that we can have a coherent body of

:20:24. > :20:27.policy developed by 15 minutes of debate at the conference once a

:20:27. > :20:35.year. So we must have a better way of doing it and involving the

:20:35. > :20:39.members much earlier, better communications. This would include

:20:39. > :20:43.a slimmed-down leadership team, so we are better able to support the

:20:43. > :20:49.new leader, which we will be electing shortage. Time is against

:20:49. > :20:53.us, and next thing we will ask you about the leadership team.

:20:53. > :20:58.For the past couple of weeks, the issue of a referendum on Scottish

:20:58. > :21:01.independence has been big political news. We have heard the news of the

:21:01. > :21:06.Prime Minister, the Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond and Carwyn

:21:06. > :21:10.Jones. The journalist across at all is in Cardiff today, and he has

:21:10. > :21:18.been talking to a loss. I am delighted to say I have been

:21:18. > :21:21.joined by BBC Scotland's political editor, Brian Taylor. Let us take

:21:21. > :21:25.this from the beginning. There seems to be disagreement between

:21:25. > :21:29.the governments, about whether Scotland has a legal right to hold

:21:29. > :21:33.this referendum. There are fundamental disputes about the

:21:33. > :21:37.nature of the referendum. We're talking about process and rules,

:21:37. > :21:42.and some people might say that it is dull. It is detail, and it may

:21:42. > :21:47.be dull, but it matters. We're talking about the future of the

:21:47. > :21:51.United Kingdom, which has survived for 300 years. The National see it

:21:51. > :21:56.has run its course, another say it should be defended. It might be a

:21:56. > :22:03.smart idea to get it right with regard to the rules! It is not

:22:03. > :22:09.settled and not decided. The constitution as an issue is

:22:09. > :22:13.reserved to Westminster, but Alex Salmond says he cannot hold a

:22:13. > :22:17.legally-binding referendum, but has the mandate and authority to

:22:17. > :22:23.consult the people as to whether there should be negotiations with a

:22:23. > :22:29.view to Scotland being independent. It is also a question about the

:22:29. > :22:34.timing. Alex Salmond favours 2014. David Cameron does not fit for that.

:22:34. > :22:42.He wants a referendum earlier than that. They wanted as soon as

:22:42. > :22:47.possible. Alex Salmond said it is wise to take time, given the

:22:47. > :22:56.severity of it all. He said during the election campaign, the Holyrood

:22:56. > :22:59.election campaign, and I cannot see a way that the UK government can

:22:59. > :23:03.force him to change his hand, because the referendum is being

:23:03. > :23:06.organised by the Scottish parliament. The UK government could

:23:06. > :23:10.call a referendum of their own tomorrow if they want, but they do

:23:10. > :23:14.not want to do so. They fear there may be a backlash against their

:23:14. > :23:18.position and the Scots may see this as unwarranted interference. Alex

:23:18. > :23:24.Salmond has not want to call it tomorrow, because he fears he may

:23:24. > :23:28.lose. He feels that economic circumstances may not be propitious.

:23:28. > :23:33.I guess is that that Alex Salmond will win. I cannot see how the UK

:23:33. > :23:39.government can force his hand. he win on the question of what the

:23:39. > :23:43.question will be? Because that is not straight for what.

:23:43. > :23:47.government say they are prepared to hand over the power on a permanent

:23:47. > :23:50.-- temporary basis to the Scottish Parliament to run a legally binding

:23:50. > :23:56.referendum, but only if they get assurances. One is on timing, but

:23:56. > :23:58.they will not get that. The other was on the questions. They want a

:23:58. > :24:03.straightforward yes or No to independence, which is difficult to

:24:03. > :24:10.get the wording right. Alex Salmond says he wants the option for devo

:24:10. > :24:17.max, which is Scotland controlling tax and revenues, but not foreign

:24:17. > :24:23.affairs. He wants this as a fall- back, to divide the Unionist camp.

:24:23. > :24:28.For the same reason the Unionists do not wanted on the ballot paper.

:24:28. > :24:32.The issue, to me, it is the absolute core of the dispute. Not

:24:32. > :24:36.timing, not whether it is the electoral commission, not where

:24:36. > :24:43.there are 16 or 17 year-olds can vote, it is the question of

:24:43. > :24:47.questions to be asked. If you think about it, does it really matter if

:24:47. > :24:57.it is 2013 or 2014 when the decision is taken? What really

:24:57. > :25:01.

:25:01. > :25:06.matters is what the question to be asked would be. Has the Alex -- has

:25:06. > :25:10.Alex Salmond played a blinder, and if he does not get independence he

:25:10. > :25:14.would get devo max, which has a long way along that road. Yes,

:25:14. > :25:20.there are some in the SNP who have a worry about having devo max on

:25:20. > :25:27.the ballot paper, and think it may be a temptation or cul-de-sac. Alex

:25:28. > :25:33.Salmond says no, he has take all along, and people said there would

:25:33. > :25:38.never be a Scottish parliament or SNP administration, all of these

:25:38. > :25:43.things have come to pass. Now he says he believes independence will

:25:43. > :25:47.come to pass. But he has a back-up. He is beginning to exasperate his

:25:47. > :25:51.rivals in the Unionist camp with regard to that. But I wondered if,

:25:51. > :25:59.once the dust of the argument settles down, if the Unionist

:25:59. > :26:02.argument can be more persuasive and reasonable, perhaps this might put

:26:02. > :26:07.Alex Salmond on the back foot a little bit. There is a long wait to

:26:07. > :26:11.go. Very briefly, what happens next? The Scottish government

:26:11. > :26:14.publish a consultative paper next Wednesday. We have already had a

:26:14. > :26:19.consultation paper from the UK government, and then it is a battle

:26:19. > :26:24.between the governments about who wins. It is going to be fascinating.

:26:24. > :26:30.Thank you very much. Before we go we will have a chat

:26:30. > :26:34.with the guests. Brian Taylor said the Unionists need to perhaps make

:26:34. > :26:44.a more reasonable argument. Can I call you a Unionist? I'm a

:26:44. > :26:52.

:26:53. > :26:56.devolutionist, within the union, so I suppose you could put it away.

:26:56. > :27:01.What is going on with the SNP is more important to the future of

:27:01. > :27:08.Wales and what is going on with Plaid Cymru. What happens would

:27:08. > :27:18.have a profound importance on Wales' relationship with the rest

:27:18. > :27:23.

:27:23. > :27:27.of the United Kingdom. People who are run Wales who... As a

:27:27. > :27:32.devolutionist, there is a devo max option, does that appeal to you

:27:32. > :27:36.that regard to will? I do not think the devolution process in Wales has

:27:36. > :27:41.finished. There are things in Wales that we might have that we do not

:27:41. > :27:46.currently have. What did you make a Brian Taylor's comments? You can

:27:46. > :27:51.call me a Unionist. I agree that Brian Taylor made excellent points,

:27:51. > :27:54.and the issue about the United Kingdom that has survived for 300

:27:54. > :28:02.years. We have all benefited as different countries in the union so

:28:02. > :28:07.much but I think it would be a tragedy if that was lost. This

:28:07. > :28:12.sounds like a Unionist are doing reasonably. I do have my reasonable

:28:12. > :28:17.moments! I think he is right -- David Cameron is right and getting

:28:17. > :28:20.the sorted out. But it is wrong to tell Alex Salmond what he should be

:28:20. > :28:24.doing. That is not a case of telling him what to do. We have a

:28:24. > :28:28.Scottish parliament, we accept there is a Scottish parliament, and

:28:28. > :28:31.it is for the Scottish people to decide what to do. The timing of

:28:32. > :28:39.the referendum affect us all, and the uncertainty has gone on for too