22/02/2012

:00:20. > :00:24.Good morning and welcome to AM-PM, our twice weekly look at what's

:00:24. > :00:27.going on in politics in Wales, the UK and beyond. On today's

:00:27. > :00:29.programme: We'll be at Prime Minister's

:00:29. > :00:33.Questions as David Cameron faces renewed calls to cut tax for

:00:33. > :00:36.businesses in next month's Budget. And the Welsh Government faces

:00:36. > :00:41.questions over why it didn't intervene sooner in the running of

:00:41. > :00:51.the controversial race organisation, AWEMA.

:00:51. > :00:52.

:00:52. > :00:55.Some health issues for me today - Joining me throughout today's

:00:55. > :01:01.programme are two AMs - the Liberal Democrat, Peter Black, and the

:01:01. > :01:04.Conservative, William Graham. So, the former Cabinet Minister, Liam

:01:04. > :01:14.Fox is urging the Chancellor to bring in tax cuts in next month's

:01:14. > :01:16.

:01:16. > :01:21.Budget. What do you think? A first- rate idea. We know that tax cuts

:01:22. > :01:26.stimulate the economy. Even the economy at the moment? Any economy

:01:26. > :01:33.will be stimulated by tax cuts. Let's first of all take a lot of

:01:33. > :01:38.people out of tax and look again at the 50 % tax rate. We know that can

:01:39. > :01:47.be counter-productive. Peter, your party has advocated raising the

:01:48. > :01:53.threshold for taxes. What do you think about the 50 % tax rate?

:01:53. > :01:58.believe it has to stay. It does raise money but it is a symbolic

:01:58. > :02:02.indication that the Government is all about fairness. I think we have

:02:02. > :02:06.hit on a dividing line here. should be concentrating on taking

:02:06. > :02:13.the lowest paid out of tax altogether. We have an agreement to

:02:13. > :02:23.raise the tax threshold to �10,000, taking a lot more people out of tax.

:02:23. > :02:25.

:02:25. > :02:32.We need to move much more quickly towards that aim. Former Cabinet

:02:32. > :02:39.ministers saying 20. How much traction do you think Liam Fox will

:02:39. > :02:43.have on the Chancellor on this? is representative of part of the

:02:43. > :02:50.party and it is good that they have a their voice but it is based on

:02:50. > :02:53.sound economics. The Chancellor at this time of year is getting

:02:53. > :02:58.suggestions and advice from all quarters about what should be in

:02:58. > :03:03.his Budget. How much attention do you think he is going to pay to

:03:03. > :03:08.these calls? I think you will pay a fair bit of attention. It depends

:03:08. > :03:13.what he can afford. We have advocated increasing both taxes to

:03:13. > :03:17.pay for that. Liam Fox is advocating more cuts. We have got

:03:17. > :03:24.to get the balance right. The Government policy already is to

:03:24. > :03:28.take lower-paid people out of tax. We should be fair. If you have less

:03:28. > :03:36.important -- income, you will spend a smaller proportion of their

:03:36. > :03:42.rather than save it. That is a really important part of this

:03:42. > :03:46.process. Ed force wants to borrow more money to spend on big projects

:03:47. > :03:50.to generate money within the economy. You would think he had

:03:50. > :03:55.borrowed enough already having got us into the situation we are at the

:03:55. > :03:59.moment. The Government is borrowing money and continues to borrow money

:03:59. > :04:03.but what we need to do is to get the deficit down, make sure our

:04:03. > :04:08.current spending does not exceed our income by too great an amount

:04:08. > :04:14.so that we can read balance the budget and make sure we do not end

:04:14. > :04:19.up like crease. How William, your party is often accused of

:04:19. > :04:22.protecting the wealthiest in society. Do you not think that

:04:22. > :04:29.cutting the 50 % tax rate is a sign that that is what your party likes

:04:29. > :04:34.to do? He not really, because it is shown by various economic models

:04:34. > :04:43.that the 50 % tax rate creates very little. If you take it away, it

:04:43. > :04:47.goes up because people are more keen to work. We want to reduce

:04:47. > :04:55.taxation to stimulate the economy. We are now moving as a coalition

:04:55. > :04:58.towards capital projects which will have the same effect. We will

:04:58. > :05:01.continue our economics discussion later.

:05:01. > :05:09.Time to find out what's happening in the Senedd today with the help

:05:09. > :05:14.of Mark, who's in the Oriel. Another interesting afternoon in

:05:14. > :05:19.store. We have questions to ministers and today it is the turn

:05:19. > :05:23.of the finance minister, Jane Hutt, and the business Minister, Edwina

:05:23. > :05:26.Hart course. Then on to the issue of people being harassed because

:05:26. > :05:34.they are disabled. It seems staggering that that should happen

:05:34. > :05:38.but it seems to be more and more of a problem. Then there is a debate

:05:38. > :05:41.about post-traumatic stress disorder. This is something the

:05:41. > :05:45.Conservatives have nominated because it is something they have

:05:45. > :05:49.been pushing quite strongly for many months. Regular viewers will

:05:49. > :05:55.be aware that the issue has come back several times. They are aware

:05:55. > :05:59.that more and more relatively young people from our communities have

:05:59. > :06:03.served overseas in Iraq, Afghanistan, and are coming back

:06:03. > :06:07.severely damaged. Perhaps the services are not there to the

:06:07. > :06:10.extent they should be to help these people move forward in life. The

:06:10. > :06:17.Conservatives want the Government to acknowledge there is a problem

:06:17. > :06:21.and that the services are not up to scratch. They also want a review of

:06:21. > :06:31.whether there has been progress since the health committee noted

:06:31. > :06:32.

:06:32. > :06:37.this problem in February last year. Then there is a debate on the race

:06:37. > :06:42.equality charity, AWEMA. They have been a whole host of alleged

:06:42. > :06:46.financial wrongdoings which has seen its chief executive, Naz Malik,

:06:46. > :06:50.sacked. Had there are allegations that money was used in

:06:50. > :06:55.appropriately to pay for things like rugby tickets and even car

:06:56. > :07:00.parking fines. It is alleged that one of the directors of the charity

:07:00. > :07:06.was Naz Malik's daughter. That apparently is a conflict of

:07:06. > :07:10.interest. And it is said that reports have found that Naz Malik's

:07:10. > :07:16.daughter's salary increased by something like �30,000 in just

:07:16. > :07:20.three years. A whole host of things have been uncovered in two reports.

:07:20. > :07:30.The Liberal Democrats have nominated this debate to ask how

:07:30. > :07:31.

:07:31. > :07:35.this problem went on for so long. a report suggested that further

:07:35. > :07:41.funding for AWEMA should only be undertaken with great caution and

:07:41. > :07:46.in 2007, the venture resigned and wrote to the Government to raise a

:07:46. > :07:50.number of his concerns. They have also been allegations of bullying,

:07:50. > :07:55.human rights being interfered with, people having to sit at different

:07:55. > :07:58.tables to other people, a whole host of things. The Liberal

:07:58. > :08:03.Democrats want to ask why this was not detected earlier and they

:08:03. > :08:06.wanted protocol to make sure this kind of thing cannot happen in

:08:06. > :08:10.future at other publicly-funded organisations. At the end of the

:08:10. > :08:15.afternoon we have got the short debate which is today from Nick

:08:15. > :08:21.Ramsay, the Conservative Assembly Member for Monmouth, and he is

:08:21. > :08:27.going to be discussing water, the renaissance of the resource.

:08:27. > :08:29.Thank you very much, Mark. And you can find out even more on

:08:29. > :08:33.what's happening in the National Assembly on BBC Wales' Democracy

:08:33. > :08:36.Live online coverage. Just go to bbc.co.uk/walespolitics.

:08:36. > :08:44.And to tell us what's happening in Westminster today, we can go to our

:08:44. > :08:49.correspondent, Tomos Livingstone. It seems the NHS Bill has overtaken

:08:49. > :08:51.bankers bonuses as the recurring topic on this programme and this

:08:51. > :08:57.time it is the Liberal Democrats rather than the Lords who are

:08:57. > :09:01.planning to scupper it. It has come up in successive weeks for some

:09:01. > :09:06.time and it has been Ed Miliband who has been able to make a on this.

:09:06. > :09:10.All the polling shows that the one issue where Labour consistently out

:09:10. > :09:18.appals the Conservatives is the health service and no wonder Ed

:09:18. > :09:22.Miliband keeps coming back to this, the controversial coalition health

:09:22. > :09:26.reforms in England. Today, Labour is pushing for something called the

:09:26. > :09:31.NHS risk assessment, which is something the Government has put

:09:31. > :09:34.together if it's a report -- reforms go through. Labour say they

:09:34. > :09:39.should be published but the Government says that would not be

:09:39. > :09:43.appropriate. Liberal-Democrat MPs also say it should be published. A

:09:43. > :09:47.sign that there is some unhappiness on the backbenches and we saw that

:09:47. > :09:52.in the Commons yesterday about these very controversial reforms.

:09:52. > :09:56.These reforms only affect England, why should we care about them in

:09:56. > :10:01.Wales? One is the cross border issue, people who live near the

:10:01. > :10:05.border in Wales to travel to England for health services. And

:10:05. > :10:11.there is also the political dimension, if the Government is

:10:11. > :10:15.forced into some sort of climbdown, there could be questions over its

:10:15. > :10:25.ability to get through other public reforms. That would be a boost for

:10:25. > :10:30.

:10:30. > :10:34.Ed Miliband. Some eyebrows being raised for hour Liberal Democrat

:10:34. > :10:39.and Conservative members on a chair. The budget is only a month away.

:10:39. > :10:44.George Osborne may have choked on his see real this morning as he

:10:44. > :10:48.read the Financial Times. He there was some advise from Liam Fox. He

:10:48. > :10:52.resigned from the Cabinet four months ago over leaks to his friend

:10:52. > :10:56.who was attending one or two business meetings that he should

:10:56. > :11:01.not have been at. But Liam Fox has not faded away into the backbenches,

:11:01. > :11:05.he still feels he has a role to play in front line politics. His

:11:05. > :11:10.argument is that the Budget should contain cuts to employers' National

:11:10. > :11:15.Insurance contributions, making it cheaper to take on new staff. He

:11:15. > :11:20.also says the Government should be getting on with making it easier to

:11:20. > :11:26.hire and fire employees. This is ostensibly written as a critique of

:11:27. > :11:31.the Labour Party and those on the left Rouen pro regulation and anti-

:11:31. > :11:37.business. But it is a reminder to right wing MPs that they don't have

:11:37. > :11:41.to go along with everything the coalition government is saying,.

:11:41. > :11:50.There are alternative views as there and they could do worse than

:11:50. > :11:54.Liam Fox. Let's move on to football now. The Prime Minister is hosting

:11:54. > :12:02.a summit this morning to tackle racism in football at Downing

:12:02. > :12:07.Street. What is he hoping to achieve? I think Prince William

:12:07. > :12:17.might be interested. He is a big Aston Villa fan. David Cameron does

:12:17. > :12:20.

:12:20. > :12:24.not want to see football slight back into the bad old days. There

:12:24. > :12:29.is a summit and he has got some FA officials coming to Downing Street,

:12:29. > :12:35.some former players, to see if there is anything the Government

:12:35. > :12:38.can do to stepping and encourage some players and fans to take a

:12:39. > :12:44.more enlightened view of what goes on on the pitch. Not everyone

:12:44. > :12:49.thinks this is a good idea. David Cameron once criticised Tony Blair

:12:49. > :12:54.for government by gimmick but he might have something to contribute

:12:54. > :12:57.on this issue. Thank you very much. Don't forget that we'd like to hear

:12:57. > :13:07.from you if you'd like to send us your comments about any of the

:13:07. > :13:16.

:13:16. > :13:18.The First Minister, Carwyn Jones, attended a meeting with the UK

:13:18. > :13:21.Government and ministers for the devolved nations at the Cabinet

:13:21. > :13:25.Office in Whitehall on Monday. He repeated his calls for more control

:13:25. > :13:33.over renewable energy projects to be given to Wales. After the

:13:33. > :13:38.meeting he spoke to our correspondent, Owain Clarke.

:13:38. > :13:43.You came here calling for more powers over green energy and

:13:43. > :13:47.suchlike, it has been a frequent call of yours. Any progress? It is

:13:47. > :13:51.going to be up to the Silk Commission which is looking at the

:13:51. > :13:56.Assembly's powers in the future. If it recommends the devolution of

:13:56. > :14:01.those powers, I would expect the UK government to deliver on that.

:14:01. > :14:06.I'm looking for precisely? We want to deal with renewable energy

:14:06. > :14:10.projects up to 100 megawatts. We have got great potential when it

:14:10. > :14:15.comes to marine energy in Wales and creating jobs of the back of that.

:14:15. > :14:20.Scotland controls its own subsidies but we don't. Scotland controls the

:14:20. > :14:25.planning system for marine energy but we don't. The same is true for

:14:25. > :14:30.Northern Ireland. Because we can't offer the same levels of subsidy or

:14:30. > :14:34.planning, we are losing out on jobs. You have asked for this before, are

:14:34. > :14:37.you getting frustrated that there is not more progress? If the UK

:14:37. > :14:42.government is saying this will be dealt with by the commission set up

:14:42. > :14:46.to look at further powers for the Assembly, that is due to report in

:14:46. > :14:51.the autumn of next year. If that Commission suggests energy concerns

:14:51. > :14:56.should be devolved, as we have suggested, we would expect the UK

:14:56. > :15:02.government to deliver on that. energy prices was on the table as

:15:02. > :15:05.well. How much of a problem is it for Welsh consumers? Our larger

:15:05. > :15:09.manufacturers are complaining that prices for energy in the UK are far

:15:09. > :15:13.higher than anywhere else in Europe. The energy suppliers take a

:15:13. > :15:17.different feel but it is a complete fog surrounding how this is worked

:15:17. > :15:22.out. Individual consumers are faced with a raft of tariffs and they

:15:22. > :15:25.don't know which is best for them. It all needs to be simplified. We

:15:25. > :15:35.also need greater transparency in the energy markets are people can

:15:35. > :15:36.

:15:37. > :15:40.Let's talk to our guests now and see what they think. What did you

:15:40. > :15:44.make of the kind of things the first minister was calling for?

:15:44. > :15:47.thought he was not being ambitious enough. Limiting the call to 100

:15:47. > :15:50.enough. Limiting the call to 100 megawatts seems to me to be quite

:15:50. > :15:54.an ambitious in terms of what the Government is seeking. If you are

:15:54. > :15:59.going to go for planning control on all energy companies, go for them

:15:59. > :16:04.all at once. I am surprised that Labour appears to be all over the

:16:04. > :16:07.shop on this. Labour MPs, Welsh Labour MPs, voted against a Plaid

:16:07. > :16:12.motion to devolve energy to Wales, so you wonder who is Carwyn Jones

:16:12. > :16:16.actually speaking for? Is it for the Welsh Labour Party, is it for

:16:16. > :16:20.the Welsh government? Why are Labour are not united on this

:16:20. > :16:24.issue? My third point, in terms of what the Welsh government would do

:16:24. > :16:28.when I get those powers, one of the obstacles which the previous

:16:28. > :16:32.government found in terms of devolving powers, and the current

:16:32. > :16:40.government is finding, too, is that they were proposing to let local

:16:40. > :16:43.authorities make decisions on all these big issues. Looking for some

:16:43. > :16:46.central Wales wide body would be better than leaving it to the

:16:46. > :16:51.vagaries of local councillors. That needs to be addressed by the

:16:51. > :16:56.Government as well. William, Carwyn Jones was told by the UK government

:16:56. > :16:59.that no decision will be made on the transfer of any powers over

:16:59. > :17:06.energy until the sale Commission publishes its report at the end of

:17:06. > :17:10.next year. Do think that is good enough? It is sensible. Let them at

:17:10. > :17:14.report. The timescale may slip a little bit. The Welsh Conservatives

:17:14. > :17:19.have long called for a devolved powers and there is no reason why

:17:19. > :17:22.we should not have it. It is a good policy and for once, I can agree

:17:22. > :17:25.with Carwyn Jones in the principle. But the way he has gone about

:17:25. > :17:29.addressing it makes it more difficult for the Government to

:17:29. > :17:32.agree with his proposal. You say you have called for the devolving

:17:32. > :17:39.of those powers before. What would you like to see done with those

:17:39. > :17:44.powers? The point that Peter made his right. Guidance to local

:17:44. > :17:49.authorities is important. There needs to be some central part of

:17:49. > :17:54.government to look at these issues were right across the board, to

:17:54. > :17:56.really get it right. We need a dedicated department to look at

:17:56. > :18:01.each issue individually and give guidance to those who make

:18:01. > :18:06.decisions. In terms of the jobs that Carwyn Jones was talking about,

:18:06. > :18:09.do think that is a legitimate argument, that because powers has

:18:10. > :18:14.not been devolved, Wales will be losing jobs. What we have not been

:18:14. > :18:19.doing in Wales enough is actually getting the jobs here in terms of

:18:19. > :18:27.manufacturing, wind turbine sq and other alternative energy mechanisms.

:18:27. > :18:31.For example, we have a factory now near Chepstow, but up until then

:18:31. > :18:35.all the wind turbine, and we have a huge number of them, have all been

:18:35. > :18:39.imported from abroad. Why aren't we manufacture in themselves -- them

:18:39. > :18:44.ourselves. We should be built in the machines to get that

:18:44. > :18:51.electricity. Your party is not a big fan of wind power, is it?

:18:51. > :18:59.particularly, know. But the project in Chepstow is very impressive and

:18:59. > :19:03.they make the power at -- Towers for the wind turbine. No looking at

:19:03. > :19:08.the issue of powers, it is coming up to a year since we had a

:19:08. > :19:11.referendum on more powers for the assembly. Some critics have

:19:11. > :19:14.criticised the Government for not believe forward enough legislation

:19:14. > :19:18.since those powers have been here. Now the Government is asking for

:19:18. > :19:23.more powers. How do you think people outside of Cardiff Bay will

:19:23. > :19:26.view that? Like everything, when you want something you have got to

:19:26. > :19:31.justify why you wanted. The Silk commission will help to do that. It

:19:31. > :19:38.is all very well saying why he wants it, but he has given no

:19:38. > :19:41.evidence. He has said that his reasons, hasn't he? Not really.

:19:42. > :19:46.Everybody wants extra jobs, but you have got to work out how they are

:19:46. > :19:51.actually going to come to Wales, and not just to the UK. Peter,

:19:52. > :19:55.where you stand on the issue of powers? Having voted to give the

:19:55. > :19:59.Assembly full law-making powers, there are a number of unresolved

:19:59. > :20:02.issues around that - things like energy for example, which need to

:20:02. > :20:08.be resolved. That is what the Silk Commission has been set up to look

:20:08. > :20:12.at. It seems a bit bizarre to ask for the powers now... It is a bit

:20:12. > :20:16.bizarre, but it is about smoothing the edges. We are not looking for

:20:16. > :20:21.huge amounts of extra powers. The issue of responsibility for the

:20:21. > :20:24.money you spend is a key one in terms of taxation, which the cell

:20:24. > :20:27.commission were also a report on. There are some things we need to

:20:27. > :20:33.tidy up and energy is one of those extra powers which it Welsh

:20:33. > :20:36.government needs as part of that. OK, still to come we will be going

:20:36. > :20:42.live to the House of Commons for Prime Minister's Questions at

:20:42. > :20:47.midday. Now, back to Mark.

:20:47. > :20:52.We are going to talk about health budgets. But let me take you up on

:20:52. > :20:58.something, biggest Aston Villa fan - Nigel Kennedy. I heard your

:20:58. > :21:04.discussion earlier on. We are talking about health. In particular,

:21:04. > :21:09.the fact that blight can re are alleging that local health boards

:21:09. > :21:16.are having to be bailed out at a rate we can't afford -- Plaid. I am

:21:16. > :21:20.joined by Simon Thomas. What is the problem from Plaid's point of view?

:21:20. > :21:30.We have seen some health boards being incapable of dealing with the

:21:30. > :21:32.funding that has been delivered to them, which means that some are not

:21:32. > :21:39.delivering and year on year are having to be bailed out. We don't

:21:39. > :21:42.know what that money is for, or what services it is providing. At a

:21:43. > :21:46.time when services are looking to be cut and centralised,

:21:46. > :21:52.increasingly be a sin that the money is being used as a reason for

:21:52. > :21:57.doing that - it is not clinical reasons, it is for saving money.

:21:57. > :22:05.mark, is is all about mismanagement on the part of those health boards?

:22:05. > :22:08.If you look at areas where there has been systemic problems in parts

:22:08. > :22:13.of Wales managing their budgets, and this here is not that different

:22:13. > :22:17.to others in that way. However, the minister from early on in the year

:22:17. > :22:20.was able to provide some extra money, and particularly to that

:22:20. > :22:24.area to enable them to make the transition that they are going to

:22:24. > :22:27.have to make. We are in different circumstances now than we have been

:22:27. > :22:32.for the last decade. There is no new money coming over the hill.

:22:32. > :22:36.There is no growth in budgets to help manage areas that have failed

:22:37. > :22:41.to manage for themselves. However, it will have to manage within his

:22:41. > :22:45.budget and the minister has been generous to them in giving more --

:22:45. > :22:50.them more than other parts of Wales extra elbow room to make that

:22:50. > :22:54.transition. But the generosity cannot continue. Absolutely not.

:22:54. > :22:57.The minister has been very clear in sent to all health Bourzat they

:22:57. > :23:00.have to live within their own resources. Simon Thomas, are you

:23:00. > :23:04.being unfair playing politics with this issue when you know that the

:23:05. > :23:07.funding simply is decreasing at a great rate? You also know about

:23:07. > :23:11.health inflation. He would be complaining if the Government were

:23:11. > :23:15.not bailing out local health boards to the extent they are capable of

:23:15. > :23:19.doing so. You should play politics with �5 billion worth of public

:23:19. > :23:26.money - that is why we get elected, to make sure that money is spent in

:23:26. > :23:31.the best way proper at -- possible. We need to ask whether this area is

:23:31. > :23:35.capable of delivering the sort of services that I want to see. It

:23:35. > :23:40.would not be acceptable in Cardiff or Swansea to have an hour's

:23:40. > :23:43.journey in an ambulance to accident and emergency, and it is not

:23:43. > :23:46.acceptable in mid-Wales. Is the Government not right to do what it

:23:46. > :23:51.is doing, or would you prefer that they said to the boards, you have

:23:51. > :23:55.not manage this money correctly, tough. The Government must get its

:23:55. > :23:58.story right. There have been saying all along that the changes we have

:23:58. > :24:02.been saying -- Singh in Wales have been led by clinical practitioners.

:24:02. > :24:06.This week we are told that the changes are actually about making

:24:06. > :24:09.it more efficient, effective, and it is about saving money. Let's

:24:09. > :24:13.have that debate. If the Government is now saying this is about saving

:24:13. > :24:18.money, let's have a debate about the resources we have in Wales, the

:24:18. > :24:22.way we spend them, but it must be on the basis of Equitable spending

:24:22. > :24:27.throughout Wales. All citizens of Wales must have the best possible

:24:27. > :24:30.access to healthcare. I don't think anyone is arguing about specialist

:24:30. > :24:37.surgery when you haven't a particular condition and you have

:24:37. > :24:41.to travel for that - sometimes you can travel to mid-Wales for good

:24:41. > :24:44.surgery, but we must have that debate about core services and the

:24:44. > :24:47.maintenance of things like maternity and accident and

:24:47. > :24:50.emergency in many parts of Wales. The public and let us as

:24:50. > :24:54.politicians to bring those concerned to this place, our

:24:54. > :24:58.national debating chamber. Your government is talking about moving

:24:58. > :25:03.forward with the reorganisation of the health service. How can you do

:25:03. > :25:06.this against a backdrop of these financial pressures? I don't think

:25:06. > :25:11.the Government is focusing on reorganisation of health services

:25:11. > :25:14.as his primary way of doing things. It intends to remain on the same

:25:14. > :25:17.footprint for the delivery of health services into the future. It

:25:17. > :25:20.is one of the big ways we are different... Restructuring is a

:25:20. > :25:23.better word. But the health minister has set up plans for

:25:23. > :25:29.change. The health service has changed every single year since

:25:29. > :25:33.1948. It would be quite wrong if we weren't thinking of how we can

:25:33. > :25:37.change. Her new treatments arrive, new things are possible, all

:25:37. > :25:42.different parts of Wales fades different challenges. There are

:25:42. > :25:46.challenges of rural services. Herein Cardiff there will be other

:25:46. > :25:51.challengers of density, immigration, other sort of challenges that the

:25:51. > :25:54.local board he has to face. Very quickly, I want to ask you about

:25:54. > :25:57.the Public Accounts Committee identify that already services are

:25:57. > :26:01.being temporarily closed. Is the reality, despite all the politics,

:26:01. > :26:04.that we will see more of this in the year ahead? We are a difficult

:26:04. > :26:09.journey because there will be less money in future than there is now.

:26:09. > :26:13.Along the way there will be some but -- bumpy parts in the road, but

:26:13. > :26:19.I think there is a direction of travel the minister has outlined,

:26:19. > :26:22.and provided that it is clinically led and we managed to secured

:26:22. > :26:25.Bayern's from local populations, I think we will manage to create a

:26:25. > :26:30.health service in Wales which will continue to deliver those sort of

:26:30. > :26:34.things which we all know are so important. Simon Thomas, briefly,

:26:34. > :26:39.beyond the politics it is a downward trend of funding. There is

:26:39. > :26:43.no doubt we are in an age of austerity. I don't disagree with

:26:43. > :26:47.mark about his analysis, but on one fundamental thing, I don't think

:26:47. > :26:51.the health minister is setting out a clear vision at all. I think some

:26:51. > :26:56.of these health boards are not capable of delivering this change.

:26:56. > :27:00.Interesting times. Thank you for joining me.

:27:00. > :27:04.We will have a quick word with our guests before going to Prime

:27:05. > :27:10.Minister's Questions. William, what are the main topics that you think

:27:10. > :27:15.will come up today? I should think it will be NHS. Do you think Wales

:27:16. > :27:21.will get a mention? Yes, he brings it in where he can. It is a serious

:27:21. > :27:25.issue and he is not getting away from it. It needs to be looked at

:27:25. > :27:35.more indulgently because these are reforms, which are supportive.

:27:35. > :27:41.Privatisation, some say. After all, the funding for doctors works quite

:27:41. > :27:47.well. Some of the doctors say they don't want to. Some, not all.

:27:47. > :27:54.where do you stand on this? It was mentioned earlier that 15 or so MPs

:27:54. > :27:58.will stir up government for -- trouble for the Government. I am

:27:58. > :28:02.reminded of the way that doctors opposed the reforms when the NHS

:28:02. > :28:06.was initially set up. The Lib Dems have moderated his health bill

:28:06. > :28:11.quite a lot, and I think we are pressing for even more change to it,

:28:11. > :28:15.and I think that is right. The 15 Lib Dem MPs have passed the

:28:15. > :28:18.pressure which is being put on the Government both externally and

:28:18. > :28:21.within the government itself, and I think Nick Clegg and other

:28:21. > :28:25.ministers are working to get more changes to this bill. They are

:28:25. > :28:29.right to do this. We do need assurances. Whereas we believe that

:28:29. > :28:32.there does need to be a diversity of provision with doctors having

:28:32. > :28:35.more control over the way patients are treated, we also need to make

:28:36. > :28:40.sure that we have those guarantees that this is not a privatisation of

:28:40. > :28:44.the health service. This is about keeping the health service free of

:28:44. > :28:48.access and in public control. Andrew Lansley is under huge

:28:48. > :28:51.pressure. I saw him being heckled by a lady in the street the other

:28:51. > :28:55.day. There is pressure on the Government to scrap this bill,

:28:55. > :29:00.isn't there? Do you think that they should face up to opposition in a

:29:00. > :29:05.mature way say yes, actually, we will scrap it? That was one of the

:29:05. > :29:10.few birds votes of opposition. You have the chance to work out a

:29:10. > :29:15.scheme. This is one of them. It has some important features which will

:29:15. > :29:20.alter the NHS in England. But not for the better? There will always

:29:20. > :29:23.be critics. We have got to reinforce that this is not a

:29:23. > :29:27.nationalisation and there will be a minister in charge at the top. But

:29:27. > :29:30.devolving it to the local area with large practices to be able to spend

:29:30. > :29:36.the money as they think best in the interests of their patients must be

:29:36. > :29:39.a way forward. Let's have a quick chat about the dynamic between Ed

:29:39. > :29:44.Miliband and David Cameron. Ed Miliband seems to have had a fight

:29:44. > :29:48.back of late. Who do you think is going to come out on top today?

:29:48. > :29:54.cannot say anything other than the Prime Minister, but many of my

:29:54. > :29:59.parliamentary colleagues regard Ed Miliband as our best advantage.

:29:59. > :30:03.What you make of that? Ed Miliband has had a lot of advice from John

:30:03. > :30:06.Prescott and Dennis Skinner, so one would expect him to improve his

:30:06. > :30:10.performance in the House of Commons. But all the polls show that people

:30:10. > :30:14.don't trust him and don't like him. On the health issue they seem to be

:30:14. > :30:17.siding with Labour? Yes, they do. Labour have had an effective

:30:17. > :30:25.campaign on that, but they still have this credibility problem which

:30:25. > :30:33.they can't get over. Let's head Let's cross now to Westminster and

:30:33. > :30:36.to our political correspondent, Tomos Livingstone.

:30:36. > :30:46.Has the Secretary of State considered the recent study that

:30:46. > :30:49.even informing a steering zone within the UK, they can inherit

:30:50. > :30:59.debt at 80 % of GDP and face tougher constraints on levels of

:30:59. > :31:02.tax and borrowing. I have studied the report and the honourable

:31:02. > :31:12.gentleman puts its conclusions succinctly and these are points

:31:12. > :31:12.

:31:12. > :31:16.that the SNP have failed to answer. Questions to the Prime Minister.

:31:16. > :31:26.am sure the whole House wishes to join me in sending our deepest

:31:26. > :31:32.

:31:32. > :31:36.condolences to the families and friends of the RAF pilots because

:31:36. > :31:41.his service and sacrifice to our nation will never be forgotten.

:31:41. > :31:46.Members of the House will also have seen the reports that the talented

:31:46. > :31:52.and respected correspondent from the Sunday Times has been killed in

:31:52. > :31:56.the bombings in Syria. This is a reminder of the risks journalists

:31:56. > :32:01.take to tell people of the world what is happening. Our thoughts are

:32:01. > :32:11.with his family and friends. I shall have further meetings later

:32:11. > :32:12.

:32:12. > :32:16.today. I wish to echo the Commons about brave troops and a brave

:32:16. > :32:21.journalist. The Prime Minister has said in the past that one of his

:32:21. > :32:25.main priorities is fighting crime. Can he explain why there has been a

:32:25. > :32:29.cut in over 4,000 in the number of front line police officers since

:32:29. > :32:33.the election? In South Yorkshire, the police helicopter which was

:32:33. > :32:37.responsible for apprehending over 700 criminals is going to be

:32:37. > :32:41.scrapped by the police minister against the advice of the chief

:32:41. > :32:46.constable. How can we explain these matters which clearly indicate to

:32:46. > :32:53.the public that crime will rise when it is simply another broken

:32:53. > :32:59.promise by this government? On the issue of the helicopter, there are

:32:59. > :33:04.talks under way between the South Yorkshire police and I am confident

:33:04. > :33:08.helicopter coverage will be maintained. Recorded crime is down

:33:08. > :33:10.under this government and if you look at the figures from Her

:33:10. > :33:14.Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, they believe there

:33:14. > :33:24.will be more police in visible policing roles this March than

:33:24. > :33:39.

:33:39. > :33:42.there were a year ago. A coach crash has recently claimed the life

:33:42. > :33:47.of a much-loved teacher and many schoolchildren were injured. Will

:33:48. > :33:52.the Prime Minister join me in expressing his sympathy and wish

:33:52. > :33:57.them a speedy recovery and return home. I am very grateful to my

:33:57. > :34:01.honourable friend for raising this desperately sad case. I know he was

:34:01. > :34:04.much respected in the local community and will be hugely missed.

:34:04. > :34:08.The thoughts and sincere condolences of everyone in the

:34:08. > :34:13.House will be with my honourable friend's constituents and everyone

:34:13. > :34:19.who has been affected. Our staff in France continue to provide support

:34:19. > :34:21.to all those still in France. Aware ambassador has visited children in

:34:21. > :34:28.hospital and is liaising with the local authorities and will do

:34:28. > :34:36.everything he can to get people safely home. Ed Miliband. Can I

:34:36. > :34:40.join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Ryan Thomas in from

:34:40. > :34:44.number two Squadron RAF Regiment who died serving our country. Our

:34:44. > :34:51.thoughts are with his family and friends. We are also thinking about

:34:51. > :34:55.the tragic death of a brave and tireless reporter in many

:34:55. > :35:01.continents and many difficult situations. She was also an

:35:01. > :35:05.inspiration for women. There are reports in the hours before her

:35:05. > :35:10.death showed her work at its finest and our thoughts are with her

:35:10. > :35:14.family and friends. On Monday, the Prime Minister held his emergency

:35:14. > :35:19.NHS summit and managed to exclude them main organisations

:35:19. > :35:24.representing the following professions. The GPs, the nurses,

:35:24. > :35:29.the midwives, the pathologists, the psychiatrists, the physiotherapists

:35:29. > :35:33.and, just for good measure, the radiologist's. How can he possibly

:35:33. > :35:40.think it is a good idea to hold a health summit which excludes the

:35:40. > :35:47.vast majority of people who work in the NHS? What I want to do is

:35:47. > :35:55.safeguard our NHS. On this side of the House, we are putting more

:35:55. > :36:01.money into the NHS. Money that they are specifically committed to

:36:01. > :36:05.taking out. Money alone is not going to be enough. We have got to

:36:05. > :36:09.meet the challenge of an ageing population, more expensive

:36:09. > :36:17.treatments, more people on long- term conditions, and that is why we

:36:17. > :36:21.have got to reform the NHS. My son it was above those organisations,

:36:21. > :36:28.including chemical groups across the country, GP practices that want

:36:29. > :36:32.to put these reforms in place. Miliband. So he has got no answer

:36:32. > :36:37.to this ridiculous summits which excluded the vast majority of

:36:37. > :36:41.people who work in the medical profession. Let's remind ourselves

:36:41. > :36:46.what the Prime Minister said just a few short months ago during his so-

:36:46. > :36:51.called listening exercise. He says change, if it is to really work,

:36:51. > :36:56.should have the support of people who work in our NHS. We have got to

:36:56. > :37:00.take our nurses and doctors with us. Now he can't even be in the same

:37:00. > :37:04.room as the doctors and nurses. Doesn't that tell him that he has

:37:04. > :37:10.lost the confidence of those who work in our National Health

:37:10. > :37:19.Service? What I want to know, when is he going to ask a question about

:37:19. > :37:22.the substance of the reforms? He does not want to ask about choice

:37:22. > :37:27.because they used to be in favour of choice but they won't back

:37:27. > :37:30.choice in the bill. He does not want to ask about competition. They

:37:30. > :37:36.used to favour competition but now they won't support competition in

:37:36. > :37:39.the bill. They used to support GPs being in charge of health budgets

:37:39. > :37:46.but they won't supported even though now it is in the bill. Why

:37:46. > :37:51.not ask a serious question and why not, incidentally, as we are being

:37:51. > :38:01.kept here to vote at 7pm on the publication of the risk registers,

:38:01. > :38:04.

:38:04. > :38:08.why don't you ask a question about that? Ed Miliband. Mr Speaker, if

:38:08. > :38:18.he does not think it is a serious question about his exclusion of the

:38:18. > :38:23.

:38:23. > :38:27.vast majority of people who work in our NHS,... Order! The House must

:38:27. > :38:33.come down. Tranquil and statesmanlike is the mode to which

:38:33. > :38:37.members should scribe. We will come to the substance of his bill, Mr

:38:37. > :38:43.Speaker, but let me ask him this important question. There were

:38:43. > :38:49.people who attended the summit and expressed deep concerns about his

:38:49. > :38:55.bill, even those who were invited to his summit. Can he tell us what

:38:55. > :38:59.changes, if any, he is planning to make to his bill. Why doesn't he

:38:59. > :39:04.stop worrying about my diary and start worrying about his complete

:39:04. > :39:09.lack of substance? We are going ahead with these reforms because we

:39:09. > :39:11.think it is good for patients to have choice, we think it is good to

:39:11. > :39:16.have the involvement of the Independent and voluntary sectors

:39:16. > :39:20.in the NHS, we think it is good to have more emphasis on public health,

:39:20. > :39:24.that is why we are doing these reforms. Let me remind him of one

:39:24. > :39:29.thing that he used to believe. He used to believe this and this is

:39:29. > :39:33.what his Health Secretary said, the private sector puts its capacity

:39:33. > :39:39.into the NHS for the benefit of NHS patients which I think most people

:39:39. > :39:43.in this country would celebrate. They are now committed to a 5% cap

:39:43. > :39:50.on the private sector which would mean hospitals sacking doctors,

:39:50. > :39:54.sacking nurses, closing wards. Let me ask him again, we are here at

:39:54. > :40:00.7pm to boast on the whisk register, are you going to ask a question

:40:00. > :40:04.about it or are you frightened about euro motion? To vote on the

:40:04. > :40:10.whist -- to vote on the risk register. The Prime Minister will

:40:10. > :40:15.know that I am not frightened of anything. Ed Miliband. Nobody

:40:15. > :40:20.believes him and nobody trusts him on the health service. On Monday, I

:40:20. > :40:24.met with senior staff working on HIV services to explain to me how

:40:24. > :40:27.this bill will fragment and disrupt services. The Health Secretary

:40:27. > :40:37.should be quiet and listen to the people who work in the health

:40:37. > :40:39.

:40:39. > :40:45.service. If he had done some listening before. He should come

:40:45. > :40:49.down, Mr Speaker. They explained that HIV treatment is Curry

:40:49. > :40:58.commissioned by one organisation, the Primary Care Trust. Under his

:40:58. > :41:04.plans, it will be commissioned by three organisations. They said to

:41:04. > :41:08.me it will damage the world class service they provide for patients.

:41:08. > :41:13.Why won't he listened to the people who actually know what they are

:41:13. > :41:18.talking about in the NHS? If the right honourable gentleman is

:41:18. > :41:23.opposing other organisations that have expertise in AIDS and AIDS

:41:23. > :41:29.treatment taking part in the NHS, he will be take -- opposing the

:41:29. > :41:33.Terrence Higgins Trust who do an enormous amount against HIV. This

:41:33. > :41:37.is complete opportunism from the party opposite. They used to back

:41:37. > :41:43.choice, they used to back the independent sector, they used to

:41:43. > :41:48.back reform. You don't save the NHS by an opposing reform, you save the

:41:49. > :41:53.NHS by delivering reform. Miliband. He does not even

:41:53. > :41:57.understand his own bill. Mr Speaker, let me just explain to him the

:41:57. > :42:07.question was about the fragmentation of commissioning and

:42:07. > :42:13.

:42:13. > :42:17.what the experts... Order! There is a long time to go and I went to get

:42:17. > :42:27.to the bottom of the Order Paper. I don't think the Prime Minister

:42:27. > :42:28.

:42:29. > :42:32.wants advice from the Health Secretary. Let me explain to him,

:42:32. > :42:42.it is about the fragmentation of commissioning. I am glad you have

:42:42. > :42:44.

:42:44. > :42:54.got it. Maybe when you get up you can answer the question. Order!

:42:54. > :42:59.

:42:59. > :43:09.Keep me out of it! The reason he has lost the confidence... Order!

:43:09. > :43:10.

:43:10. > :43:16.Order! Members might be enjoying themselves, I ask them to think of

:43:16. > :43:21.what the country thinks. What the country thinks of how we conduct

:43:21. > :43:25.ourselves. He has lost the confidence of the professionals of

:43:25. > :43:28.the NHS because of the promises he made before the election. Will he

:43:28. > :43:35.give people a straight answer to the question I asked two weeks ago

:43:35. > :43:39.and admit he has broken his promise of no top-down reorganisation?

:43:39. > :43:47.longer, Mr Speaker, and I think we would have to put him on a waiting

:43:47. > :43:53.list for care. He asks about integration. Let me just explain to

:43:53. > :43:58.him because I don't suppose he has read the bill, clause 22 and 25.

:43:58. > :44:03.They place a specific duty on key organisations to integrate health

:44:03. > :44:07.and social care. The bill is all about integration. But here we are,

:44:07. > :44:13.question five, and he still won't mention his vote on the risk

:44:13. > :44:17.registers. I think I know why. I have here Labour's brief for this

:44:17. > :44:22.afternoon's debate. There is an excellent cent -- section

:44:22. > :44:31.explaining why you don't publish risk registers. The second argument

:44:31. > :44:40.and block the publication of the Department of Health's Risk

:44:40. > :44:46.register in September 2009. -- Andy Burnham. Revealed as a bunch of

:44:46. > :44:50.rank opportunist, not fit to run opposition, not fit for government.

:44:50. > :44:55.I will tell you what happened on at the last Labour government, the

:44:55. > :45:01.lowest waiting times in history. More doctors and nurses than ever

:45:01. > :45:06.before. The highest patient satisfaction on the NHS. I will

:45:06. > :45:10.match our record on the NHS with him any day of the week. And the

:45:10. > :45:15.problem with this Prime Minister is that he asked people to trust him

:45:15. > :45:21.and he has betrayed that trust. The problem with this Prime Minister is

:45:21. > :45:26.that on the NHS, he thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong.

:45:26. > :45:32.It has become not a symbol of how his party has changed but of his

:45:32. > :45:42.arrogance. I tell him this, this will become his poll tax. He should

:45:42. > :45:43.

:45:43. > :45:47.listen to the public and he should Six questions and not a mention of

:45:47. > :45:52.the motion they put in front of the House tonight. To put forward an

:45:52. > :45:57.argument and then not to back it up, that is an absence of leadership.

:45:57. > :46:02.Order! Members on both sides of the House I'd yelling at each other. It

:46:02. > :46:05.is a rude, it is unfair on the Prime Minister and the leader of

:46:05. > :46:09.the opposition and it should stop. Let me just tell him what is

:46:09. > :46:12.happening in the health service under this Government. Waiting

:46:12. > :46:17.times for outpatients down. Waiting times for in-patients down. Number

:46:17. > :46:21.of people waiting in total down. Number of people waiting for more

:46:21. > :46:26.than a year has been halved under this Government. Hospital

:46:26. > :46:31.infections, down to their lowest level. Mixed sex wards, down by 94%.

:46:31. > :46:35.That is the record we have. 4,000 more doctors, almost a 1000 more

:46:35. > :46:39.midwives and fewer managers. He talks about what people think about

:46:39. > :46:43.this government. Let me just remind him what his do time candidate said

:46:43. > :46:47.about him this week. You are not articulating a vision or a

:46:47. > :46:51.destination. You are not clearly identified a cause, and nobody is

:46:51. > :47:01.following you. Your problem is you are not a leader. I could not have

:47:01. > :47:03.

:47:03. > :47:06.put it better myself. Mr Speaker, in 2009 when the Conservatives do

:47:06. > :47:13.control of Lancashire County Council, the fostering services

:47:13. > :47:18.were rated as unsatisfactory. Since then, their budget has reduced by

:47:18. > :47:21.�120,000, and they are now rated as outstanding. Would my right

:47:21. > :47:25.honorable Friend join me in congratulating county councillor

:47:25. > :47:29.Tony and his Conservative colleagues and not any doing more

:47:29. > :47:32.for less, but doing it better as well? I certainly join my

:47:32. > :47:36.Honourable Friend, and he makes an important point which is across the

:47:36. > :47:39.country you have got different councils coping with the issues of

:47:39. > :47:42.fostering and adoption and producing different results. We

:47:42. > :47:46.need to publish all of these figures so we can see which

:47:46. > :47:50.councils are doing well and getting value for money, as they clearly

:47:50. > :47:57.are in Lancashire. Above all, which families are really doing the best

:47:57. > :48:00.to get those children out of care and into a warm and loving home.

:48:00. > :48:05.The national minimum wage has lifted millions of workers out of

:48:05. > :48:11.poverty, so will the Prime Minister support hard working people and

:48:11. > :48:14.give a commitment today to drop unjust plans to freeze it?

:48:14. > :48:24.support the minimum wage, and we have supported its up rating, and

:48:24. > :48:25.

:48:25. > :48:29.we have already at rated it. It has an important role to play. Somalia

:48:29. > :48:33.people should have an expectation of life before death. Does not the

:48:33. > :48:38.conference in London tomorrow give an opportunity to signify to the

:48:38. > :48:41.corrupt of Somalia that we are all determined to do what we can to

:48:41. > :48:45.ensure stability of the government in Somalia. Will the Prime Minister

:48:45. > :48:50.welcome the participation in that conference the President of

:48:50. > :48:55.Somaliland, given their experience of peace building in that region?

:48:55. > :48:58.am grateful. We will be welcoming the President of Somalia and to the

:48:58. > :49:02.conference, and I think Somaliland has taken an important step forward

:49:02. > :49:06.in showing that you can have better governments, better economic

:49:06. > :49:10.progress, and I think they are an example that others can follow. But

:49:10. > :49:13.this government -- conference is about trying to put in place the

:49:13. > :49:16.building blocks among the international committee, and above

:49:16. > :49:21.all amounts the Somali people themselves off for a stronger and

:49:21. > :49:27.safer Somalia. That means taking action on piracy, on hostages,

:49:27. > :49:31.taking action to support and increase its funding in Mogadishu,

:49:31. > :49:36.and it means working with all parts of Somalia to give that country,

:49:36. > :49:40.which has been more blighted by famine and disease and the

:49:40. > :49:46.terrorism than almost any other in the world, to give that country a

:49:46. > :49:51.second chance. Given what the Prime Minister has said, will he devote

:49:51. > :49:54.as much time in facing up to the grievances that the English feel

:49:54. > :49:58.from the current proposals of devolution as he will be giving to

:49:58. > :50:02.considering new proposals of devolution to Scotland? Will he

:50:02. > :50:07.open a major debate here in the House on the English question so

:50:07. > :50:10.that members from all parts of the House can advise him on what

:50:10. > :50:16.measures of devolution England needs if we are to gain equity with

:50:16. > :50:20.other countries of the United Kingdom? Well, we have set up the

:50:20. > :50:24.West Lothian group to look at this issue, and obviously we want to

:50:24. > :50:27.make sure that devolution works for everyone in the United Kingdom. I

:50:27. > :50:30.would cut company slightly with the right honorable Gentleman for the

:50:30. > :50:35.reason that I believe the UK has been an incredibly successful

:50:35. > :50:39.partnership between all its members, and I think that, far from wanting

:50:39. > :50:43.to appeal to English people that in any way to nurture a grievance they

:50:43. > :50:47.feel, I want to appeal to my fellow Englishman to say that this has

:50:47. > :50:51.been a stock a great partnership for Scotland and for England, too.

:50:51. > :50:54.Of course Scotland must make his choice, but we hope it will choose

:50:54. > :51:04.to remain in this partnership that has done so well for the last 300

:51:04. > :51:07.years. Does the Prime Leicester agreed that an elected mayor

:51:07. > :51:11.presents a great opportunity for those of us in Bristol who have

:51:11. > :51:15.been wrong campaigning for the resurrection of local rail,

:51:15. > :51:20.including eight loop line around the north of the city? I do support

:51:20. > :51:25.having elected mayors in our cities. It will be for those cities to Jews,

:51:25. > :51:27.and I am encouraged by what has happened in Liverpool recently. We

:51:27. > :51:31.will have referenda recently and people in Bristol will have the

:51:31. > :51:34.chance to make that choice. At the same time, what people have not

:51:34. > :51:37.noticed is that the Government is going through a huge act of

:51:37. > :51:41.devotion to cities in terms of the powers and money that we are

:51:41. > :51:49.prepared to offer them so that they can build their own futures. If you

:51:49. > :51:52.think of how Bristol leads Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham,

:51:52. > :51:59.if you think about how they have built themselves up, it was the

:51:59. > :52:02.great City figures that are bad for them. The education secretary said

:52:02. > :52:05.the prime minister's decision to set up the Leveson Inquiry is

:52:05. > :52:10.having a chilly up -- chilling effect upon the freedom of

:52:10. > :52:15.expression. Does he speak for the Government? The point I make is

:52:15. > :52:19.this. It was right to set up the Leveson Inquiry, and that is a

:52:19. > :52:22.decision for me supported by the entire government. But I do think

:52:22. > :52:27.that my right honorable Friend is making an important point, which is

:52:27. > :52:31.even as this inquiry goes on, we want to have a vibrant press that

:52:31. > :52:35.feels it can call the powerful to account, and we don't want to see

:52:35. > :52:41.it chilled... Of those sometimes, one may feel some advantage in

:52:41. > :52:45.having a child, but that is not what we want. Many of my

:52:45. > :52:50.constituents will be as supportive of the Chancellor's refusal to sign

:52:50. > :52:54.off on the EU accounts. Does the Prime Minister agree with me and my

:52:54. > :52:58.constituents that it is totally unacceptable that for 17 years they

:52:58. > :53:02.have failed to get orderlies to sign off on their accounts?

:53:02. > :53:06.Honourable Friend rise is an important point. It was also the

:53:06. > :53:10.Dutch and the Swedes as well. For too long, these accounts have not

:53:10. > :53:16.been properly dealt with and Ford has not been properly dealt with,

:53:16. > :53:18.and it is right to make this stand. Last week in Edinburgh the Prime

:53:18. > :53:28.Minister said there were more powers on the table for Scotland

:53:28. > :53:33.but could not name any of them. A few months ago... Cannot buy

:53:33. > :53:39.Messett name one power that he has on his mind from this latest U-turn

:53:39. > :53:41.-- can be Prime Minister name one power? I thought the Scottish

:53:41. > :53:44.Nationalist Party favoured separation. As soon as you are

:53:44. > :53:52.offered a referendum that gives you the chance to put that in front of

:53:52. > :53:56.the Scottish people East are running away. Members of this house

:53:56. > :54:00.will have the chance to debate the importance of cycling, following

:54:00. > :54:03.the Times fit of Cycling Campaign. The Minister for cycling has made

:54:03. > :54:06.welcome announcement of investment but there is still more to do. Will

:54:06. > :54:10.the Prime Minister commit the Government to support in this

:54:10. > :54:17.campaign, increasing investment in a cycling and take greater steps to

:54:17. > :54:22.promote cycling across the country? I think the Times campaign is an

:54:22. > :54:25.will stop anyone who has got on a bicycle, particularly in one of our

:54:25. > :54:29.busiest cities, knows that you are taking your life into your hands

:54:29. > :54:34.every time you do so. We do need to do more to try it and make cycling

:54:34. > :54:38.safer. The government is making it easier for camp -- councils to

:54:38. > :54:41.install mirrors at junctions. We are putting �11 million into

:54:41. > :54:46.training for children, and �50 million into better cycle routes

:54:46. > :54:56.across the country. If we want to encourage the growth in cycling

:54:56. > :55:01.

:55:02. > :55:06.that we need to encourage campaigns like this. A company has won

:55:06. > :55:10.contracts from the DWP alone are worth �224 million. In view of the

:55:10. > :55:15.fact that their record numbers of unemployed people, and that

:55:15. > :55:19.employees of this company have been arrested, what action is he taking

:55:19. > :55:27.to ensure that neither flammable unemployed people, nor the tax

:55:27. > :55:31.payer, are victims of of this -- vulnerable unemployed people.

:55:31. > :55:35.is an important issue. It dates back two years but the schemes run

:55:35. > :55:39.by the previous government. As I understand it, it was the company

:55:39. > :55:43.itself that raised the issue with the relevant authorities. There is

:55:43. > :55:47.an ongoing police investigation so it would be inappropriate for me to

:55:47. > :55:54.comment, but in is to be thorough and get to the truth, and then it

:55:54. > :56:01.can take into account its findings. Generations of young people have

:56:01. > :56:03.benefited from a work experience schemes. Does the -- would the

:56:03. > :56:06.Prime Minister praised those companies who would do everything

:56:06. > :56:09.they can to encourage work experience schemes, unlike the

:56:09. > :56:14.militants hard left to would not any shut down these schemes, but

:56:14. > :56:19.would rather see people get a hand out as opposed to a hand up in

:56:19. > :56:21.life? I think the Honourable Lady will speak for many in this House

:56:21. > :56:26.and the overwhelming majority of this country who think that

:56:26. > :56:30.companies offering work his parents steams is a thoroughly good thing -

:56:30. > :56:34.- work experience schemes. This is not a compulsory scheme. It is

:56:34. > :56:38.something that young people ask to go on. The findings are that around

:56:38. > :56:43.half of them are getting work at the end of these schemes. That is a

:56:43. > :56:47.far better outcome than the future Jobs Fund, and about one-twentieth

:56:47. > :56:50.of the cost. We should encourage young people to expand work

:56:50. > :56:55.experience because it gives people the chance of seeing work and all

:56:55. > :57:04.that it involves and give them a better chance of getting a job.

:57:04. > :57:07.There are thousands of aid workers concerned and angry about the

:57:07. > :57:12.Eurofighter Indian contract. Earlier this month we held a

:57:12. > :57:21.meeting with Tory MPs. When will you arrange a meeting at 10 Downing

:57:21. > :57:25.Street for all Lancashire MPs? Prime Minister? I have met with a

:57:25. > :57:32.number of Members of Parliament who have BAE in their constituencies,

:57:32. > :57:36.including the Honourable Member for Hull, who came to see me with the

:57:36. > :57:41.Honourable Member for Booth at the same time. This government is

:57:41. > :57:44.committed to helping with Euro fighter in every way that we can.

:57:44. > :57:49.That is why I have been undertaking trips right across the Middle East.

:57:49. > :57:53.Let me say, when I do, I often get criticised by Labour MPs for taking

:57:53. > :58:02.BAE or Rolls-Royce on the aeroplane. I think it is right to fly the flag

:58:02. > :58:09.for Great British businesses, and I will continue to do so. Mr Speaker,

:58:09. > :58:15.last week at the breakfast table my wife was saying how she knew that

:58:15. > :58:24.the Prime Minister wanted to deport the terrorist Abu Qatada straight

:58:24. > :58:28.away and put the national interest first. But she knew it was being

:58:28. > :58:37.blocked by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Liberal Democrats.

:58:37. > :58:44.Suddenly, our 11-year-old son Thomas asked, "is Nick Clegg a

:58:44. > :58:50.goodie or a baddie?". What does the Prime Minister think? There is only

:58:50. > :58:56.so much detail I can take from the bone household. In believing that I

:58:56. > :59:00.am very keen that Abu Qatada should be deported, Mrs Bone is indeed

:59:00. > :59:03.psychic. That is why the Home Secretary and Home Office ministers

:59:03. > :59:07.are working so hard with the Jordanians to get the assurances

:59:07. > :59:12.that we need so that this can indeed take place. The Deputy Prime

:59:12. > :59:17.Minister of Barry backs that approach. Both the Prime Minister

:59:17. > :59:23.and the Housing Minister have told the House that rents are falling in

:59:23. > :59:27.the private rented sector when the evidence is that rents are rising,

:59:27. > :59:33.including from a most recent survey. Will the Prime Minister now take

:59:33. > :59:37.this opportunity to put the record straight, or will he continue to

:59:37. > :59:41.blame that the tenant when the real responsibility lies with landlords

:59:41. > :59:47.charging ever higher rents and the failure of his Government's

:59:47. > :59:51.housebuilding programme? I have to say, coming from a party that saw

:59:51. > :59:59.housebuilding fall to its lowest level since the 1920s, I think I

:59:59. > :00:03.will take that with a lorry load of salt. We have put great effort into

:00:03. > :00:06.stamping out and kicking out races and in football in this country.

:00:06. > :00:09.When my right honorable friend brings together the support --

:00:10. > :00:12.Sport later on today, will he assure the House he will do

:00:12. > :00:22.everything he can to ensure that prejudice does not creep back into

:00:22. > :00:29.

:00:29. > :00:33.the game, and that races and stays It is worrying, some of the recent

:00:33. > :00:38.signs we have seen. Why this matters so much, not just a

:00:38. > :00:45.football but also government and everyone in our country, is because

:00:45. > :00:49.football and footballers are role models to a young people. I think

:00:49. > :00:56.it is important to bring people together and make sure we keep

:00:56. > :00:59.races and out of football for good. Could I associate myself with the

:00:59. > :01:03.Prime Minister's condolences to the member of the armed forces who lost

:01:03. > :01:07.his life in the last week and I am sure the Prime Minister would like

:01:07. > :01:14.to join me in thanking the thousands of people who serve in

:01:14. > :01:18.the reserve armed forces. However, would he agree with me that it was

:01:18. > :01:23.inappropriate and even arrogant that when constituents who serve in

:01:23. > :01:29.the reserve Marine forces in Dundee in my constituency express concerns

:01:29. > :01:35.about the possible closure of that attachment, I write to the Ministry

:01:35. > :01:38.of Defence and they refuse to give me a definitive answer? I thank the

:01:38. > :01:43.honourable gentleman for raising the case of the brave man from the

:01:43. > :01:46.RAF Regiment who gave his life and all those who serve in Afghanistan.

:01:46. > :01:51.He is absolutely right that the reserve forces in our country are a

:01:51. > :01:59.huge asset and we want to see them expanded. We put over �1 billion

:01:59. > :02:03.into that expansion between now and 2015 to make sure we can do that.

:02:03. > :02:07.No decision has been taken on its future and there is no intention to

:02:07. > :02:12.cut the number of Royal Marine reservists in Scotland. If you look

:02:12. > :02:17.at the whole issue of our ground forces, we need more people to join

:02:17. > :02:20.the reserves. Everybody in this House to likes our Territorial Army

:02:20. > :02:26.should back the recruitment campaigns because if we're going to

:02:26. > :02:29.move to an army of 18,000 regulars and 14,000 reservists, we need a

:02:29. > :02:38.cultural change where we respect what our TA and other reserve

:02:38. > :02:42.forces are doing. US marshals will on Friday escort my 65-year-old

:02:42. > :02:45.constituent from Heathrow to a jail in Texas where he will face

:02:45. > :02:50.pressure to plea-bargain in order to avoid lengthy incarceration

:02:50. > :02:55.pending a financially ruinous trial for a crime he insists he does not

:02:55. > :03:03.commit. What steps is the Prime Minister considering to reform the

:03:03. > :03:10.US-the UK extradition treaty which has been so unfair. I understand

:03:10. > :03:13.why my honourable friend raises this case. In this case, he has

:03:13. > :03:16.been through a number of processes including the magistrates court and

:03:16. > :03:21.the High Court and the Home Secretary has considered his case.

:03:21. > :03:28.He raises the boy more generally of the report into the extradition

:03:28. > :03:32.arrangements which he has made and we are now considering. The Home

:03:32. > :03:38.Secretary is going to examine his findings and take into account the

:03:38. > :03:41.views of Parliament that have been expressed in recent debates.

:03:41. > :03:45.Balancing these is absolutely vital but we need to remember why we

:03:45. > :03:49.entered into these extradition treaties, which is to show respect

:03:49. > :03:52.to each other's judicial processes and make sure people who are

:03:52. > :04:02.accused of crimes can be tried for those crimes and Britain can

:04:02. > :04:03.

:04:03. > :04:10.benefit from that as well. Government response to the unfair

:04:10. > :04:16.relationship between pub companies and their licensees so far has been

:04:16. > :04:23.self-regulation not statutory regulation. On 12th January, this

:04:23. > :04:27.has voted unanimously to set up a review panel to be agreed by the

:04:27. > :04:32.business Select Committee to review with the implementation of self-

:04:32. > :04:36.regulation. To date, there has been absolutely no response from the

:04:36. > :04:42.Government. Can the Prime Minister tell me whether he is backing the

:04:42. > :04:46.will of Parliament? I am a keen supporter of Britain's pubs so I

:04:46. > :04:50.will write to the honourable gentleman and getting a good answer.

:04:50. > :05:00.He in his speech made in Edinburgh last week, the Prime Minister

:05:00. > :05:04.

:05:04. > :05:07.described Scotland as a... Having now visited Edinburgh, does he

:05:07. > :05:12.agree with me that it is the perfect location for this

:05:12. > :05:15.institution? It is one of the locations which is being considered

:05:16. > :05:21.but there are a number of bids that have also been made from different

:05:21. > :05:28.towns, cities and regions of the country that all want to host this

:05:28. > :05:34.excellent innovation, the Green Investment Bank. Can I ask the

:05:34. > :05:38.Prime Minister, returning to the issue of the NHS, why has the Prime

:05:38. > :05:42.Minister have broken his promise not to engage in another top down

:05:42. > :05:46.reorganisation of the National Health Service? What we are doing

:05:46. > :05:52.is abolishing the bureaucracy which has been holding the NHS back. We

:05:52. > :05:56.are going to be cutting in this Parliament for �0.5 billion of

:05:56. > :05:59.bureaucracy by getting rid of the Primary Care Trusts and the

:05:59. > :06:03.strategic health authorities, all of which will be invested into

:06:03. > :06:11.patient care. His own party's policy is to save a real increases

:06:11. > :06:15.in NHS spending are "irresponsible". We think it is responsible, that is

:06:15. > :06:20.why we are putting the money in and he would take the money out. There

:06:20. > :06:26.have been loss of interruptions today but I am concerned about the

:06:26. > :06:30.interests of backbenchers. When I was in Ethiopia with Save the

:06:30. > :06:35.Children, I saw how malnutrition is stunting the growth of the world's

:06:35. > :06:37.poorest children. Does the Prime Minister agreed that the UK has a

:06:37. > :06:43.opportunity to lead the international debate in tackling

:06:43. > :06:48.malnutrition which will help the growth of the world's children?

:06:48. > :06:51.think the honourable lady is entirely right about this. Not only

:06:51. > :06:54.because we work with excellent organisations like Save the

:06:54. > :06:59.Children which are doing such excellent work but the UK is the

:06:59. > :07:04.second large and -- largest bilateral donor into the Horn of

:07:04. > :07:08.Africa where we have seen so many people starving and dying. Not only

:07:08. > :07:17.are we doing our bit in terms of money, Investment and time, but it

:07:17. > :07:25.gives us an opportunity to lead the debate. Ten Minute Rule motion.

:07:25. > :07:35.That is Prime Minister's questions over for another week. David

:07:35. > :07:40.

:07:40. > :07:46.Cameron asked whether Tony Blair was a goody lorry Paddy. -- or a

:07:46. > :07:52.Paddy. The Speaker said that the people

:07:52. > :07:55.watching would not appreciate a spectacle. Did you appreciated?

:07:55. > :08:00.quite like it. You don't want to drown out what people are saying

:08:00. > :08:05.but it is all amplified these days. When I used to chair here, I used

:08:05. > :08:10.to enjoy it, to research level. I think the public expect their

:08:10. > :08:14.representatives to be responding, not sitting there choir leave.

:08:14. > :08:21.Let's get on to what was said. The debate between Ed Miliband and

:08:21. > :08:27.David Cameron on the NHS. There was no mention of Wales Today. He gave

:08:27. > :08:31.the usual robust action which he is quite well known for. It is

:08:31. > :08:35.unfortunate that Ed Miliband can't seem to depart from a script. There

:08:35. > :08:44.were one or two instances where he was actually of script and was

:08:44. > :08:49.quite good. Andrew Lansley was sat to people down from the Prime

:08:49. > :08:55.Minister today. Last week he was miles away. Do you think the fact

:08:55. > :09:00.he is a bit nearer suggests the NHS Bill is going to live to fight

:09:00. > :09:05.another day? I think it will go through but the question is, in

:09:05. > :09:09.what form? The symbolism is not lost on anyone here. Andrew Lansley

:09:09. > :09:14.moving closer to the Prime Minister. I think the Prime Minister feels he

:09:14. > :09:22.has got a back the Cabinet minister. I am sure there will be further

:09:22. > :09:26.changes to this bill. Peter Bone, the Conservative MP, often makes

:09:26. > :09:32.restaurant -- a reference to his wife. He asked whether the Prime

:09:32. > :09:37.Minister thought Nick Clegg was a good man or a baddie. Do you

:09:37. > :09:43.welcome that sort of open hostility towards the Lib Dems? It is part of

:09:43. > :09:49.the cut-and-thrust of politics. don't often hear it in the Forum of

:09:49. > :09:53.the debating chamber though. You do get it in the debating chamber. We

:09:53. > :09:56.have had members feeling they need to reassert their dominance within

:09:56. > :10:00.the coalition because they feel the Liberal Democrats are getting too

:10:00. > :10:05.much. And the Liberal Democrats are getting a lot out of this

:10:05. > :10:12.government. Do you think the Liberal Democrats are getting a

:10:12. > :10:15.good deal? On many things, many of us feel that, but it is part of the

:10:16. > :10:22.coalition. You have those tensions and you have got to work them

:10:22. > :10:25.through. There, David Cameron and Nick Clegg has done extremely well.

:10:25. > :10:28.I am sure they have been some pretty definite divergence of

:10:28. > :10:33.opinion but they have managed publicly extremely well and it is

:10:33. > :10:38.to the benefit of the country. There was a question today from the

:10:38. > :10:41.member for Edinburgh West. I forget his name. About the Green

:10:41. > :10:45.Investment Bank and whether the Prime Minister had considered

:10:45. > :10:49.locating it in Edinburgh. The Government in Wales are keen to

:10:49. > :10:55.have it brought to Wales. Is that something you would support?

:10:55. > :11:00.Certainly. I believe as part of the negotiation we weren't able to

:11:00. > :11:05.lobby for Wales. The Cardiff District might be an attraction for

:11:05. > :11:09.them but let's see what happens. Would you make a call for it to be

:11:10. > :11:18.in Newport? Almost certainly. We could do with anything in Newport

:11:18. > :11:23.at the moment. It looks like that would be really good. It is not

:11:23. > :11:29.easy at the moment. We have got a very attractive location for it in

:11:29. > :11:33.Swansea and we have a real day. Coming up on the programme we will

:11:33. > :11:43.be hearing from an Assembly Member who wants us all to be pushing our

:11:43. > :11:47.

:11:47. > :11:49.teeth properly. -- brushing. MPs are calling on the Welsh

:11:49. > :11:52.Government to urgently consider using the brand of the Welsh

:11:52. > :11:55.Development Agency more than five years after it was abolished. The

:11:55. > :11:58.Welsh Affairs Committee of MPs says in its review into inward

:11:58. > :12:00.investment that the brand can be used to improve Wales' global

:12:00. > :12:02.identity. Our reporter, Bethan James, has been talking to the

:12:02. > :12:05.chairman of the committee. Wales is failing to attract foreign

:12:05. > :12:10.business, that is the message from the Welsh Affairs Select Committee,

:12:10. > :12:15.and the chair of that committee joins me in Westminster. This is

:12:15. > :12:18.pretty heavy criticism of Welsh Government policy. I would like to

:12:18. > :12:24.think it is constructive and it is dealing not just with the policy of

:12:24. > :12:28.the current government in the Welsh Assembly but also previous ones.

:12:28. > :12:32.And governments in the UK. But we can't ignore the fact that during

:12:32. > :12:38.the 80s, Wales was getting around 40 % of all the inward investment

:12:38. > :12:44.coming to the UK and now it is getting around 3%. That is a

:12:44. > :12:47.terrible indictment of what has gone on. Who is to blame for that?

:12:47. > :12:50.Do there are things going on in the world that have affected inward

:12:50. > :12:54.Investment but the fact the percentage has fallen in Wales is

:12:54. > :13:00.something that we need to look at very carefully. I am not going to

:13:00. > :13:05.put the blame on any one person, one party or one government. We

:13:05. > :13:07.have looked at the fact that we no longer has the Welsh Development

:13:07. > :13:12.Agency or read body that is dedicated to selling Wales to the

:13:12. > :13:20.rest of the world and that is something we all want to see

:13:20. > :13:23.addressed. We have looked at the fact that various big countries --

:13:23. > :13:27.companies are saying to us that people have not got the right

:13:27. > :13:32.skills. When you look at the report into skills, you see that skills in

:13:32. > :13:36.Wales are the lowest within the United Kingdom. That is something

:13:36. > :13:44.that should definitely be addressed. But we have looked at other things

:13:44. > :13:48.as well. The fact that some big companies have great rapport with

:13:48. > :13:53.their local communities. They get people in from the schools and are

:13:53. > :13:58.trying to improve the image that Engineering jobs have. Quite right,

:13:59. > :14:02.because they are great, well-paid jobs. We need to do more to change

:14:02. > :14:07.the negative image of them. There is a lot of constructive stuff in

:14:07. > :14:14.here which I hope the Government will take heart from. You want an

:14:14. > :14:22.agency set up like the Welsh Development Agency was, but would

:14:22. > :14:30.it be a quango? Quango is such a poisonous word in politics.

:14:30. > :14:33.Especially in Welsh politics. have stopped short of saying the

:14:33. > :14:40.Welsh to Balham and agency should come back but the Assembly can

:14:40. > :14:50.think about this. -- Welsh Development Agency. Now there is no

:14:50. > :14:55.

:14:55. > :14:58.dedicated body to selling Wales. What we want to see is much better

:14:58. > :15:02.relationships so that where there are companies that are interested

:15:03. > :15:10.in coming to the UK, somebody is saying to them, why don't you look

:15:10. > :15:14.at Wales? We have got a great work force, we have got great schools,

:15:14. > :15:17.it is a lovely place to live and the standard of living is cheaper

:15:17. > :15:22.in Wales than in London. I would love to go and sell Wales myself

:15:22. > :15:26.and I am trying to do it myself. We have got a great message but nobody

:15:26. > :15:31.is putting it across at the moment. We would like somebody to be doing

:15:31. > :15:41.that. What about the relationship between the UK government and the

:15:41. > :15:42.

:15:42. > :15:45.Welsh Government? Is very good We found that the relationship

:15:45. > :15:51.between a new Katie I and the Welsh government was not as good as it

:15:51. > :15:56.could be. -- UK. I would say that the Welsh Assembly Government needs

:15:56. > :15:59.to do a lot more to work with the government in Westminster. The

:15:59. > :16:07.government in Westminster is happy to work with them. We hear from

:16:07. > :16:11.Vince Cable and others, they want to see the economic development and

:16:11. > :16:14.work with it but have so far not been able to get meetings. The

:16:14. > :16:17.Secretary of State for Wales has been told she might get one every

:16:17. > :16:21.six months if she's lucky. We were told she was not willing to speak

:16:21. > :16:24.to us at all. What message does this send out to businesses? They

:16:24. > :16:28.were just see a load of politicians fighting with each other because

:16:28. > :16:31.one not in the Welsh Assembly don't like the fact there are politicians

:16:31. > :16:36.with a different party hat on in Westminster. That is not the

:16:36. > :16:39.message we should be sending out. Different parties come and go in

:16:39. > :16:43.Westminster and in Cardiff. The fact of the matter is, all of us

:16:43. > :16:45.ought to be big enough to say whoever is in power, and whichever

:16:45. > :16:51.legislator, we will all work together when it comes to selling

:16:51. > :16:56.Wales. Strong words against the business minister in this report.

:16:56. > :17:00.Why don't you summon her to Parliament? We could do that, but I

:17:00. > :17:05.think it would be rather undignified to send people round

:17:05. > :17:09.with pointed swords to go and summon the business minister to

:17:09. > :17:12.Parliament. If she has got nothing to say to us about this matter it

:17:12. > :17:17.and if she does not even want to criticise the UK government, which

:17:17. > :17:21.she would be entitled to do so if she wanted to, I don't want to push

:17:21. > :17:24.that to be possible conclusion. I would just like people to reflect

:17:25. > :17:29.on the message that it sends out, and I saw in the Western Mail only

:17:29. > :17:33.the other week that Wales was pitching for the Greenbank to come

:17:33. > :17:38.to Wales. A great idea. But what chance have they got if ministers

:17:38. > :17:43.in England, in London, are going to say, what is the point of sending

:17:43. > :17:46.it to Wales? What are the chances of anyone answering our questions

:17:47. > :17:51.and less they are trapped in by force? That is why we are going to

:17:51. > :17:56.lose out on things like that. I think the whole of Wales lose his

:17:56. > :18:00.as a result. Most people, whether they are Labour, Plaid or liberal,

:18:00. > :18:03.want to see politicians working for whales and not getting into a strop

:18:03. > :18:09.and say they are not going to work with somebody else because they are

:18:09. > :18:11.from a different political party. David Davis MP, the chairman of the

:18:11. > :18:16.Welsh Affairs Select Committee. The Welsh government says it has

:18:16. > :18:20.already developed a more flexible model fit for their future, and we

:18:20. > :18:25.did ask the been his -- business Minister for an interview but she

:18:25. > :18:29.was not available. Let's head off to Mark in the Oriel for us. A I am

:18:29. > :18:33.going to talk to the Labour AM Christine Chapman. Thank you for

:18:33. > :18:37.joining us. She is also chair of the children and young people

:18:37. > :18:41.committed. Your Committee has been looking at the issue of our

:18:41. > :18:45.children's oral health and it is quite disturbing. We have got among

:18:45. > :18:50.the worst aural hell for young children in the UK. Yes, and I

:18:50. > :18:54.think that the problem is that it impact on other health problems. If

:18:54. > :19:00.a child has an affection in the mouth, it is likely that they may

:19:00. > :19:04.be off school. It has a wider impact, not just as far as their

:19:04. > :19:11.teeth are concerned. People might be wondering why it is so much

:19:11. > :19:15.worse for us than in other parts of the UK. We know that this is worth

:19:15. > :19:20.-- worse in poorer areas, and the design to smile programme which we

:19:20. > :19:25.have examined we think is a good programme, but part of it is to do

:19:25. > :19:28.with education. Today we have launched the report in a school,

:19:28. > :19:33.and the programme is about teaching children to brush their teeth on a

:19:33. > :19:37.regular basis, and again, they were very enthusiastic about that. Be

:19:37. > :19:42.teachers were enthusiastic as well. It is about taking those messages

:19:42. > :19:46.home that this has to be done on a twice daily basis. It is as much

:19:46. > :19:50.about the children teaching their parents, we would expect maybe the

:19:50. > :19:53.parents should be responsible and know what they have got to do.

:19:53. > :19:57.parents would, but unfortunately we are not living in a world where

:19:57. > :20:02.every parent would do that. Again, we need to get those messages home

:20:02. > :20:06.to those children. I think the programme will be successful, but

:20:06. > :20:10.there is further work that needs to be done. Is there an issue as well

:20:10. > :20:16.- there is a wider issue about dentistry, and have the dental

:20:16. > :20:19.profession reacts to children. Is there a problem that at the moment

:20:19. > :20:23.dentists work according to treatments, so they are acting

:20:23. > :20:27.after the problem rather than preventing it? One of the

:20:27. > :20:33.recommendations is that we have asked the Welsh government to look

:20:33. > :20:37.at revisiting the contract so they -- the dentist could be funded

:20:37. > :20:40.according to the preventive work. If you're a child, there is often

:20:40. > :20:44.an issue around going to the dentist, but children need to visit

:20:44. > :20:52.the dentist regularly, and that person needs to be a friend of the

:20:52. > :20:57.child as well so they get used to it. There needs to be attention

:20:57. > :21:01.given to this. Is there scope to put this into schools as well?

:21:01. > :21:06.initially. There is a community dental service, but we need to

:21:06. > :21:12.clarify exactly what their role is on this. The other thing we are

:21:12. > :21:15.concerned with is the high level of anaesthetics. In 2010, there were

:21:15. > :21:21.9,000 general anaesthetics carried out on children. It is almost taken

:21:21. > :21:27.for granted that it is normal to have teeth out. But this can be

:21:27. > :21:31.prevented. This is a purely preventable disease. We need to

:21:31. > :21:38.eradicate it. And of course it causes young children a lot of pain.

:21:38. > :21:42.Of course. Thank you for your time. Families MPs are calling for a

:21:42. > :21:48.change of the law to help families of missing people. He has been

:21:48. > :21:51.talking to our reporter. The just a select committee are today calling

:21:51. > :21:57.for a presumption of death act. The man who went to the committee to

:21:57. > :22:00.ask them to look into this matter is the MP Chris Evans and he joins

:22:00. > :22:05.me in Westminster. Chris Evans, why is there a need for this

:22:05. > :22:11.presumption of death act? The law is confused. We have had such an

:22:11. > :22:15.act in Scotland since 1977. Often because the law is confused, police

:22:15. > :22:19.officers do not know where to start and then loved ones are given the

:22:19. > :22:22.runaround for a number of years and they don't know where to go. What

:22:22. > :22:27.other problems that families are facing when their loved ones go

:22:27. > :22:31.missing? When someone goes missing, direct memberships will get frozen,

:22:31. > :22:34.gym membership and credit cards won't get paid, mortgages won't get

:22:34. > :22:39.paid, and it can cause severe financial difficulties. There is

:22:39. > :22:46.nothing they can do. Bank accounts are often frozen, so they are in

:22:46. > :22:52.limbo. I believe you have been involved in this case because the

:22:52. > :22:56.sister of a music -- musician's de Mai is in your constituency? Yes,

:22:56. > :23:05.she has been a stout campaigner in this area, and she brought this to

:23:05. > :23:11.my attention. What is she saying to you? Basically, they don't know

:23:11. > :23:17.where to turn. This is such an unusual thing to happen. A

:23:17. > :23:25.solicitor does not necessarily know what to do. The all-party group on

:23:25. > :23:27.missing people said it was like crazy paving in many respects and

:23:27. > :23:33.when one Saturday piece of legislation across the board can be

:23:33. > :23:39.into decent people will know where to go. The Ministry of Justice me

:23:39. > :23:42.to implement an advice campaign as well. So, if a presumption of death

:23:42. > :23:49.act is introduced, what would this mean? How would it change the law?

:23:49. > :23:53.It would do two things. It would mean a stat to piece of legislation

:23:53. > :23:56.for missing people, and also guardianship, so the family of a

:23:56. > :23:59.missing person could apply for guardianship to sort out the

:23:59. > :24:04.financial affairs while they are missing. This has been the case in

:24:04. > :24:10.Scotland for the last 35 years. In any one case as somebody returned.

:24:10. > :24:16.I think it is sensible and it does not cost any money. What about the

:24:16. > :24:22.concerns of people abusing, wanting to go missing? I think you are

:24:22. > :24:25.talking about the famous can a man. Any one person has ever returned in

:24:25. > :24:30.all the time Scotland has had that legislation. So, at the legislation

:24:30. > :24:36.has worked effectively in Scotland and Northern Ireland. How likely is

:24:36. > :24:44.it to happen? It was very encouraging when it came before the

:24:44. > :24:48.committee. The Ministry of Justice wants three months to respond to

:24:48. > :24:53.this report. Let's hope there is some kind of action. I Chris Evans,

:24:53. > :24:57.thank you. Time Bock a quick word with our

:24:58. > :25:01.guests before we go. -- time for. This afternoon, the Lib Dems have a

:25:01. > :25:09.debate in the assembly, wanting to talk about all manner of things

:25:09. > :25:12.relating to the charity AWEMA. You are leading on this debate. Tell us

:25:12. > :25:17.what you want to get out of it. There are so many unanswered

:25:17. > :25:21.questions about AWEMA, which I don't believe they will get to the

:25:21. > :25:26.rid of. In particular, what ministers did with the very --

:25:26. > :25:31.various warnings about AWEMA in 2003, 2004, to that a seven. Why do

:25:31. > :25:34.we find ourselves in 2012 with "broo" being dissolved because of

:25:34. > :25:38.issues raised eight years ago? Those sort of things have not been

:25:38. > :25:42.announced in the chamber. Ministers have clammed up and we need to get

:25:42. > :25:47.to the root of that. We also need to have a proper protocol in place

:25:47. > :25:52.to make sure this does not happen again. You say the ministers have

:25:52. > :25:55.clammed up over this - do you have any inclination why? They are

:25:55. > :25:58.saying because there are more reports to come and a possible

:25:58. > :26:01.police investigation. My concern is that the whole thing is being

:26:01. > :26:05.kicked into the long grass and ministers are hiding behind these

:26:05. > :26:10.reports. They should be asking pertinent questions about what they

:26:10. > :26:16.knew and what they did about it at the appropriate time. William,

:26:16. > :26:18.yesterday your party leader raised this issue and tried to broaden it

:26:18. > :26:23.out during First Minister's Questions, about whether there

:26:23. > :26:29.might be any other organisations that have perhaps been overlooked

:26:29. > :26:32.in the way Peter is suggesting that AWEMA was. I think he is right. It

:26:32. > :26:36.is a sensitive issue, and they have got to be certain that when it

:26:36. > :26:40.reports were made, as this one was, years ago with large amounts of

:26:40. > :26:50.public money, are there any others? Are there any reports that we have

:26:50. > :26:51.

:26:51. > :26:57.not seen? It is very important. There was also a suggestion that

:26:57. > :27:01.the links between AWEMA and the Labour Party... They are quite a

:27:02. > :27:07.transparent in that way and well known. It is not wise, but it does

:27:07. > :27:09.occur. What we must be certain of - we only need to go back to the old

:27:10. > :27:15.days where a lot of Welsh authorities, when they advertised

:27:15. > :27:20.for staff, they had to put on the bottom "canvassing will disqualify".

:27:20. > :27:24.That is outrageous. We don't want to go back to those days when any

:27:24. > :27:29.political appointees are made. In this case, the reports from all

:27:29. > :27:34.those people looking at AWEMA must be transparent and available to all.

:27:34. > :27:42.Peter, this debate will happen this afternoon. What happens then, what

:27:42. > :27:45.can actually come from it? It is part of the scrutiny process. I

:27:46. > :27:49.would like to see the minister come before the quality committee to

:27:49. > :27:53.answer detailed questions to get to the root of it. This debate has

:27:53. > :27:56.started that process but we need some answers and we need to see

:27:56. > :28:01.where the ministers will answer than today. Carwyn Jones said his

:28:01. > :28:04.government has nothing to hide. Do you accept that? I am still waiting

:28:04. > :28:08.for a 2004 report which we found in the library, so clearly they are

:28:08. > :28:11.not giving us all their information. If they have nothing to hide, they

:28:11. > :28:18.will be no doubt that that they will have to -- one to answer

:28:18. > :28:22.questions. How do you find that in the library? A researcher went to

:28:22. > :28:25.us the library if they have it, and they found a copy of the report. It

:28:25. > :28:29.just happened to be there. There were no other copies anywhere else.

:28:29. > :28:33.I am beginning to wonder whether the Welsh government have it.

:28:33. > :28:37.Carwyn Jones was not sure himself. Thank you for joining us. That is