:00:22. > :00:24.Good afternoon and welcome to the programme and our weekly coverage
:00:25. > :00:31.Later this afternoon, he'll be making a statement to
:00:32. > :00:33.the Assembly on the outcome of the Scottish independence
:00:34. > :00:37.referendum and the implications of the No vote on Wales.
:00:38. > :00:40.Before that, he'll be quizzed as usual by AMs and I'm sure
:00:41. > :00:44.someone will weave in the fallout from last week's referendum.
:00:45. > :00:47.I've had a look at the order paper and he can also expect questions on
:00:48. > :00:52.cancer services, public transport and the universal credit scheme.
:00:53. > :00:56.Don't forget you can follow all the latest on Welsh politics
:00:57. > :01:02.Time to go over to the Senedd now where the
:01:03. > :01:11.Presiding Officer, Rosemary Butler, is opening proceedings.
:01:12. > :01:18.Good afternoon. The first item this afternoon is questions to the First
:01:19. > :01:23.Minister. Question one, Kirsty Williams. Will the Minister make a
:01:24. > :01:27.stake and on the provision of health services in Brecon and Radnor ship?
:01:28. > :01:33.Our priority is to ensure that all people in Brecon and Radnor shut
:01:34. > :01:36.receive safe and sustainable health care and health care which is
:01:37. > :01:44.delivered as close to home as possible. I have recently been
:01:45. > :01:48.contacted by a clinician who looks after my constituents and he states
:01:49. > :01:52.that on his recent ward round out of the 12 patients in his bed is five
:01:53. > :01:58.were suffering from delayed transfers of care and five more when
:01:59. > :02:01.you ring that edition. He put that down to inability of the local
:02:02. > :02:07.social services department to provide timely packages of care at
:02:08. > :02:12.home. I have also been contacted by constituents who want to get their
:02:13. > :02:14.relatives at district hospitals back to community facilities but they
:02:15. > :02:18.cant because there is a lack of beds. What can the Welsh Government
:02:19. > :02:21.do to ensure that healthcare and social services and more in
:02:22. > :02:26.alignment and that patients do not have to suffer because of the
:02:27. > :02:31.inability to source packages of home care. The leader of the Liberal
:02:32. > :02:38.Democrats will note this form is an important part of the Williams
:02:39. > :02:42.commission. Delayed transfers of care were down in July and it's
:02:43. > :02:45.important that local authorities look carefully at the packages they
:02:46. > :02:50.provide so that people can go home. We want to make sure that people
:02:51. > :02:55.don't spend more time in hospital than they need to and we expect
:02:56. > :03:01.poets and every other local authority in Wales to deliver
:03:02. > :03:05.service that people expect. We know that there are issues to be
:03:06. > :03:14.addressed to improve the service local people. I welcomed the Health
:03:15. > :03:18.Minister's decision earlier this year to commission a special review
:03:19. > :03:22.of healthcare in Wales and they understand the Welsh Institute for
:03:23. > :03:26.health and social care which has carried out the review is due to
:03:27. > :03:33.report in the autumn. Are you able to provide an update on the steady
:03:34. > :03:42.and I you able to indicate a timetable for your response to its
:03:43. > :03:47.findings? The timetable has not changed to my knowledge. It is an
:03:48. > :03:57.important study and we look forward to studying it in depth. The people
:03:58. > :04:03.of Brecon and Radnor ship have their health provided by the Powys health
:04:04. > :04:08.board which of course had an overspend of almost ?20 million in
:04:09. > :04:13.the last financial year as a result of your labour government's NHS
:04:14. > :04:19.cuts. What assurances can you give the people of reckoning and
:04:20. > :04:21.Radnorshire and the way the country that the resources which are
:04:22. > :04:28.available to the NHS are sufficient to meet their needs? The Ambulance
:04:29. > :04:31.Service is in crisis, waiting lists are spiralling out of control and
:04:32. > :04:41.cancer patients cannot access the tropes they need. If you look at the
:04:42. > :04:51.figures for Powys in July of this year, we see the referral to
:04:52. > :05:00.treatment times shows that no patient will -- waits in excess of
:05:01. > :05:05.36 weeks. The people of poets have health care which is provided well
:05:06. > :05:11.for them both by endless providers and Welsh providers. We want to make
:05:12. > :05:14.sure as we look towards the budget that many in Wales in terms of
:05:15. > :05:17.health spending continues to grow. We will be in a position where
:05:18. > :05:27.health spending will spearhead remains above that of England as it
:05:28. > :05:32.has always been. To return to real services for constituents in Brecon
:05:33. > :05:37.and Radnorshire, one of the problems with there being no District General
:05:38. > :05:42.Hospital in the county is the reliance on community services. As
:05:43. > :05:47.we weigh up the report you are about to receive, how can you assure the
:05:48. > :05:53.government's responses one that actually develops community services
:05:54. > :05:57.and maintains them because in West Wales it is fine to deal with some
:05:58. > :06:01.of the cats happening in hospitals but you must have those community
:06:02. > :06:12.services in place to take up the slack? The study has been welcomed
:06:13. > :06:19.by everybody involved in the sector in mid Wales and we are looking
:06:20. > :06:26.forward to see what that case will be. We expected to be completed by
:06:27. > :06:30.the end of this month and once the results are available the outcomes
:06:31. > :06:38.are available, the Minister will consider those outcomes. Will the
:06:39. > :06:43.First Minister make a statement on his priorities for transport in West
:06:44. > :06:46.Wales over the next 12 months? We have introduced a range of actions
:06:47. > :06:55.to improve transport and we are continuing to drive -- provide
:06:56. > :07:00.support for bus services and in April of course be officially opened
:07:01. > :07:12.the A4707 between Saint clears and red roses. I recently met
:07:13. > :07:16.constituents who are calling for a bypass to deal with some of the
:07:17. > :07:21.traffic congestion going into the town from the direction of Cardigan.
:07:22. > :07:24.Your predecessor acknowledged difficulties of using the roads in
:07:25. > :07:29.this part of Fishguard so will you as a government commit to
:07:30. > :07:32.considering proposals that would resolve these problems, including
:07:33. > :07:39.the creation of a bypass in the area given that we are now to receive
:07:40. > :07:46.another round of European funding? I know the road well and that is bend
:07:47. > :07:53.on one part of the road near the harbour. I would imagine it would be
:07:54. > :08:01.a major project to create a bypass but having said that, I will ask the
:08:02. > :08:27.Minister to consider the demand for a bypass in that part of Fishguard.
:08:28. > :08:31.What is the government's policy on roundabouts on dual carriageway is
:08:32. > :08:34.because questions have been raised on access to the new road you have
:08:35. > :08:42.just ancient between Saint clears and red roses. There is concern that
:08:43. > :08:49.people may be travelling at great speed on that route and it could
:08:50. > :08:58.cause accidents. It is of course usual to have roundabouts on all
:08:59. > :09:02.roads but not on motorways. As regards that road in particular, the
:09:03. > :09:08.Minister will write to you directly on that point. We now move to
:09:09. > :09:13.questions from the party leaders and first the leader of Plaid Cymru,
:09:14. > :09:19.Leanne Wood. Events in Scotland and the response of the UK parties has
:09:20. > :09:22.created a new context for debate on the constitution in these islands.
:09:23. > :09:29.Is it your view that the time has now come to go further on tax powers
:09:30. > :09:35.for this National Assembly and you agree that a referendum on income
:09:36. > :09:39.tax powers is now not necessary? Referendum is necessary but I do
:09:40. > :09:48.agree the current suggestion in the Wales Bill is now consigned to
:09:49. > :09:53.history. I'd do think that is great scope now to look once again at the
:09:54. > :10:00.tax varying arrangements of the devolved administrations as a whole
:10:01. > :10:08.and to go beyond the Wales Bill. It is interesting that you want to keep
:10:09. > :10:11.the referendum in place. I've listened very carefully to what you
:10:12. > :10:16.had to say in recent days on the question of home rule for Wales.
:10:17. > :10:23.It's important to establish how your suggestion of home rule differs from
:10:24. > :10:26.the current arrangements in the Selkirk proposals for further
:10:27. > :10:30.devolution. I wonder if you could tell us, do you for example support
:10:31. > :10:35.the devolution of the criminal justice system to this National
:10:36. > :10:40.Assembly in the near rather than the distant future? Or do you support
:10:41. > :10:49.for example the removal of the upper limit on energy powers? What it is
:10:50. > :10:53.acted as home rule lookalike you? The issue of powers has been dealt
:10:54. > :10:57.with separately and the Wales Bill must progress through Parliament. I
:10:58. > :11:02.would like to see the whole of part one implement it and the whole of
:11:03. > :11:08.part two and Wales' and offending dealt with. I will envisage the
:11:09. > :11:14.convention looking at the structure of devolution within the UK and that
:11:15. > :11:17.would mean they would need to be a meeting of all four administrations
:11:18. > :11:25.and the way forward would need to be agreed. It is not sufficient for the
:11:26. > :11:29.whole thing to be done in Westminster without there being
:11:30. > :11:39.proper input from Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland. Things have
:11:40. > :11:42.changed and I have to say to members that if I had said three months ago
:11:43. > :11:47.I was in favour of home rule but things have changed and I have not
:11:48. > :11:49.in silent in terms of my view on what the future should hold. I
:11:50. > :11:56.welcome the indications you have given today on a possible change in
:11:57. > :11:59.pace and the fact you want to go beyond the silk recommendations in
:12:00. > :12:04.terms of powers for Wales. In that spirit would you be prepared to work
:12:05. > :12:11.with me and the other party leaders to agree a joint Wales position on
:12:12. > :12:18.securing meaningful new powers from the UK Government by or during the
:12:19. > :12:24.next assembly term? I am prepared to work with all parties to do that. We
:12:25. > :12:33.did it before the 2011 referendum. I am aware of Plaid Cymru's view but I
:12:34. > :12:36.don't know what the view of the leader of the Welsh Conservatives is
:12:37. > :12:43.on this issue. As a bare minimum we need to see plus one -- part one and
:12:44. > :12:51.part two addressed and we need to see the structure of the UK's
:12:52. > :12:54.constitution changed. The idea that the Secretary of State for Wales
:12:55. > :12:58.should be able to veto any bill from this chamber is wrong and the idea
:12:59. > :13:03.that Wales should not have control over its own energy resources is
:13:04. > :13:07.also wrong to my mind. It's also wrong that even if this is a
:13:08. > :13:13.theoretical possibility that it is possible in law for the UK
:13:14. > :13:17.Parliament to abolish this place without reference to the people of
:13:18. > :13:23.Wales. That cannot be right in the 21st-century. The leader of the
:13:24. > :13:27.Welsh Liberal Democrats, Kirsty Williams. 18 months ago I challenged
:13:28. > :13:32.UN figures that show that some patients were awaiting up to five
:13:33. > :13:35.and a half hours in the back of ambulances outside a handy
:13:36. > :13:41.departments. You said you were assessing the needs in terms of what
:13:42. > :13:45.must be done. Last week we saw the tragic consequences of such delays.
:13:46. > :13:50.Could you outline what you have done in the last 18 months to resolve
:13:51. > :13:56.this situation? I urge members not to pre-empt the enquiry that will
:13:57. > :14:00.take place after the events of last week and my condolences go to the
:14:01. > :14:05.family. It is not quite as straightforward as it seems. I am
:14:06. > :14:11.pleased with the fact that we have seen an improvement in ambulance
:14:12. > :14:18.response times and I expect that improvement to continue.
:14:19. > :14:24.In The most recent figures show that your further away than ever meeting
:14:25. > :14:33.your accident and emergency targets. Do you anticipate that the
:14:34. > :14:38.Welsh National Health Service will ever meet your accident and
:14:39. > :14:50.emergency targets while you are First Minister? One of the things
:14:51. > :14:57.that is the lead sometimes when people are talking about waiting
:14:58. > :15:01.times is that this does not refer to people waiting for treatment, it is
:15:02. > :15:06.waiting time between arriving and leaving hospital. There will be
:15:07. > :15:13.occasions but sometimes practitioners have to keep people in
:15:14. > :15:24.to waste for tests -- wait for tests. It is important that people
:15:25. > :15:28.do not have too spend an inordinate amount of time in accident and
:15:29. > :15:32.emergency and most people are in and out within four hours but there will
:15:33. > :15:43.always be people who will spend more time in accident and emergency
:15:44. > :15:46.awaiting results. It was said the delayed transfers of care would be
:15:47. > :15:51.tackled with a new urgency that they are up and what they were last year
:15:52. > :15:54.which means fewer beds for people who need to be there for clinical
:15:55. > :16:00.reasons which can lead to longer waiting times in accident and
:16:01. > :16:02.emergency departments and subsequently more ambulances
:16:03. > :16:06.queueing outside accident and emergency waiting to discharge their
:16:07. > :16:13.patients. When will you see that there will be dramatic improvements
:16:14. > :16:20.in delayed transfers of care? She is correct that figures are up and
:16:21. > :16:25.better this time last year but they are down from the previous month. A
:16:26. > :16:28.number of actions have been identified at local and national
:16:29. > :16:34.level which need to be taken forward. There are ways now to
:16:35. > :16:38.ensure more collaborative working between health and social services
:16:39. > :16:44.to reduce the number of delayed transfers of care and we expect is
:16:45. > :16:55.that act is rolled out to decrease further. First Minister, last
:16:56. > :16:59.January you said that we want a sustainable health service based on
:17:00. > :17:03.the guidance of the doctors give. Last week many of us would have seen
:17:04. > :17:08.the report by the petition medical Association that says it faces
:17:09. > :17:13.imminent meltdown. Their key recommendation was that the Welsh
:17:14. > :17:18.government should commission a enquiry into all National Health
:17:19. > :17:25.Service services throughout Wales. Doctors have given their advice.
:17:26. > :17:27.When will the government acts? The difficulty is that the British
:17:28. > :17:33.Medical Association are not consistent in the messages they
:17:34. > :17:41.give. In March, they said that the data demonstrates clearly that Welsh
:17:42. > :17:51.hospitals deliver worse outcomes in English hospitals is a wicked
:17:52. > :17:58.slander. Doctor Mark Porter, the chairman of the BMA council said
:17:59. > :18:02.that the government were being fundamentally dishonest of their
:18:03. > :18:06.funding of the National Health Service. When you have such
:18:07. > :18:14.conflicting statements, which ones do you believe? First Minister, I
:18:15. > :18:19.think that emphasises how important this reporters they have brought
:18:20. > :18:25.forward. Very often when they have wanted to as an opposition, they
:18:26. > :18:30.have criticised as and do not take a political position on this. They
:18:31. > :18:34.listen to their members and the act. The BMA says that the NHS in Wales
:18:35. > :18:40.has a culture of not listening which is a widespread problem across the
:18:41. > :18:46.NHS institutions which poses a significant threat to patient
:18:47. > :19:03.safety. The current arrangements for raising concerns do little to
:19:04. > :19:07.reassure the doctors involved. When can he see that safety and clinical
:19:08. > :19:14.excellence will be at the forefront of safety? When I came to live in
:19:15. > :19:19.Cardiff, I lived in a House with six medical students. A lot of them are
:19:20. > :19:23.consultants and general practitioners now. I spoke to a few
:19:24. > :19:29.of them over the weekend and not one of them agreed with the comment that
:19:30. > :19:32.was made. I am unimpressed by an organisation that calls for an
:19:33. > :19:36.enquiry into its own members which is exactly what the BMA has done but
:19:37. > :19:41.I think it is important that it is consistent and what it says and that
:19:42. > :19:44.where it has concerns it may want to address those concerns to the
:19:45. > :19:49.government first rather than putting them in the media. This is the usual
:19:50. > :19:54.flippancy and arrogance that we see from this First Minister. He has a
:19:55. > :20:00.comprehensive report that is looking at the NHS and its entirety was as
:20:01. > :20:04.an organisation that when they felt the need to criticise us as our
:20:05. > :20:08.party are any of the other parties, they have criticised then offered
:20:09. > :20:13.the view that the software for the Welsh NHS. They have brought former
:20:14. > :20:20.attribute that says an independent enquiry is required in order to look
:20:21. > :20:25.at all aspects of the Welsh NHS. The other highlighted that the Welsh NHS
:20:26. > :20:30.faces imminent meltdown. They have highlighted the doctors feel
:20:31. > :20:38.sanctions will be taken against them if they raise legitimate concerns.
:20:39. > :20:43.When, First Minister, will you bring forward such an independent
:20:44. > :20:46.enquiry? You are prepared to listen to some clinical advice but when it
:20:47. > :20:55.does not suit you you're not prepared to listen to what is good
:20:56. > :20:57.for the NHS in Wales. If he has evidence of doctors being
:20:58. > :21:05.suppressed, let him bring it forward rather than making cheap
:21:06. > :21:08.allegations. The reality of the situation is that his party has been
:21:09. > :21:15.described as fundamentally dishonest by the BMA. Why should we disbelieve
:21:16. > :21:19.them in that regard? Let us not be naive about this. That I paid
:21:20. > :21:24.discussions taking place. The BMA says it wants to be listened to. Why
:21:25. > :22:11.then has not appear that any of the pay negotiations
:22:12. > :22:19.cancer in Wales? -- bowel cancer. We have a proactive screening programme
:22:20. > :22:21.for bowel cancer. Only three health boards in Wales have undergone
:22:22. > :24:02.accreditation further endoscopy units.
:24:03. > :24:07.accreditation further endoscopy Quite often trains are late and very
:24:08. > :24:11.cramped and quite often in poor condition which is totally
:24:12. > :24:17.unacceptable. I know last week there was some discussion during your
:24:18. > :24:20.question time on the future rail franchise arrangements. What impact
:24:21. > :24:27.do you think these blue experiences will have on any future rail
:24:28. > :24:31.franchise in Wales and additionally what work will be done on the South
:24:32. > :24:37.Wales Metro project to make sure that we get the travelling
:24:38. > :24:39.conditions passengers right? She raises up perfectly valid point and
:24:40. > :24:45.we're stuck under franchise arrangements made previously which
:24:46. > :24:50.have not consistently serve the people of Wales well. We want to
:24:51. > :24:52.ensure in the next franchise there are frequent services and the
:24:53. > :24:59.rolling stock is of sufficient quality as well and also to see more
:25:00. > :25:03.frequent services will stop you will further Minister for economy and
:25:04. > :25:10.signs and transport show her enthusiasm for the South Wales Metro
:25:11. > :25:15.project and moving that forward from Aberdare and other Valley
:25:16. > :25:22.communities should see cleaner and better and faster transport. First
:25:23. > :25:27.Minister, the Metro project which you just close your answer on, is a
:25:28. > :25:33.vital part of the transport infrastructure for the future in
:25:34. > :25:39.south Wales. What is your take at the moment on how the discussions
:25:40. > :25:46.are progressing and what can we look forward to in the future? There have
:25:47. > :26:01.been no discussions with the Welsh office, it is the Wales Office. The
:26:02. > :26:08.issue is this, I have noticed a difference in tone with the new
:26:09. > :26:11.occupant of the Wales Office and I welcome that. He has said he is
:26:12. > :26:17.looking to see a solution which we all want to see, a solution that is
:26:18. > :26:25.fair and lovers, and it is hope of all involved that we see the project
:26:26. > :26:30.are livered. If I can echo the comments made previously, the
:26:31. > :26:37.valleys must see DTD improvements from the investment in rail. In
:26:38. > :26:45.2011, the deputy minister for transport said he was announcing
:26:46. > :26:51.plans to reopen the rail passenger line from Aberdare which was closed
:26:52. > :27:00.50 years ago. The closure has meant the loss of an important transport
:27:01. > :27:03.link of people in the Canon Valley. Important work was taken as his
:27:04. > :27:08.office term came to an end shortly after that. That appears to be in
:27:09. > :27:13.very little development and progressing this passenger service
:27:14. > :27:19.since then. Can you offer any hope to the people of the Canon Valley
:27:20. > :27:30.that the service will be reinstated, or visit deemed not to be at
:27:31. > :27:37.priority now? It has been right to say that we've seen progress on the
:27:38. > :27:42.rail and we are seeing improvements on the line between Wrexham and
:27:43. > :27:47.Saltney Junction and we will of course continue to review for the
:27:48. > :27:50.reopening. The line are still there because it was serving to a colliery
:27:51. > :27:51.and it is something that we will keep an review because you're good
:27:52. > :28:01.record on reopening reliance. I'm a friend of the Archbishop
:28:02. > :28:04.of Canterbury. What exactly does it entail,
:28:05. > :28:11.this job? There aren't many mums who'd
:28:12. > :28:14.let their sons run off to join the circus.
:28:15. > :28:16.Welcome to Keele University. You can't just get things by asking.
:28:17. > :28:21.I can. Is Tony Benn in today? How do you fancy coming to
:28:22. > :28:24.work for me? Kit man. I've always wanted to be happy.
:28:25. > :28:28.'..in the network premiere...' So I decided to be. What's the Neil
:28:29. > :28:34.Baldwin Football Club? My own team.